**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 06 02:59:57 2010 Feb 06 03:00:11 Use this when you need to call something from the same scene across multiple functions. Feb 06 03:00:21 Use a global when you need to call it across all scenes Feb 06 03:00:35 Use var when you need to call it from the same scene, within the same function. Feb 06 03:00:46 but does every property of the scene become this Feb 06 03:00:49 Viola Feb 06 03:01:20 Voila too... Feb 06 03:01:32 so then var principle becomes var this.principle? Feb 06 03:01:39 nope Feb 06 03:01:41 No Feb 06 03:01:50 var principle becomes this.principle Feb 06 03:02:04 why no var? Feb 06 03:02:39 var principle is a variable within a particular function Feb 06 03:02:59 this.principle is a property of the assistant Feb 06 03:03:26 (generally speaking) Feb 06 03:03:54 hmm...i still don't get it Feb 06 03:04:15 so i have a function Feb 06 03:04:17 Assistant.prototype.roundToPennies = function (n) { Feb 06 03:04:47 does that make it a method of the assistant object now? Feb 06 03:06:16 yes, it does. Feb 06 03:06:39 and then later in the assistant, you can access it with this.roundToPennies(); Feb 06 03:06:49 ok so then any variable declared in this method gets "this"? Feb 06 03:07:42 in the context of a SceneAssistant, think of "this" as being the same thing as "SceneAssistant" Feb 06 03:08:05 ok Feb 06 03:08:20 time for some wii Feb 06 03:08:23 SceneAssistant.prototype.xxxx = function () {...} adds a method (function) to SceneAssistant called xxxx Feb 06 03:08:35 right Feb 06 03:08:52 so, when I'm within the SceneAssistant, I can call xxxx as this.xxxx(); Feb 06 03:09:08 kk Feb 06 03:09:26 SceneAssistant has properties and methods Feb 06 03:09:29 right Feb 06 03:09:54 SceneAssistant.someModel = "true" Feb 06 03:10:14 nodnod Feb 06 03:10:16 just a sec... Feb 06 03:10:19 kk Feb 06 03:12:24 JenP: Preware now has localization support, and the testing feed version supports French. Feb 06 03:12:44 rod no way! that's freakin cool! Feb 06 03:12:51 (as well as continuing to load the feeds when an update error occurs) Feb 06 03:13:50 rwhitby that's so cool. I'll be on vacation in a week....we'll hammer out your help stuff then... Feb 06 03:14:39 awesome. I want to put a fault-diagnosis tree in the help too - to lead people through self-debug when something goes wrong. Feb 06 03:14:58 nodnod...totally doable... Feb 06 03:15:04 we can do something up in xml Feb 06 03:15:23 and each error message that preware pops up drops you into the debug tree at the right place Feb 06 03:15:25 then attach some conditional branching... Feb 06 03:15:57 too cool...lol we'll make it an IETM Feb 06 03:16:49 cool - we need more choreography and dancing in Preware. (www.ietm.org) Feb 06 03:17:28 anyone know the full path to the photos folder on the pre? Feb 06 03:18:07 lol...oh wow I've never seen that before Feb 06 03:19:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETM Feb 06 03:19:45 JenP: yeah, I was just pulling your leg Feb 06 03:20:09 smiles...are you kidding I'm totally putting that in my all hands training Feb 06 03:22:07 So, I need two more Preware alpha testers before I release it ... Feb 06 03:22:28 rwhitby: Is it faster? Feb 06 03:23:12 reality9110: nope, but you won't need to restart it if one of the feeds is stuffed Feb 06 03:23:43 shoot it over here Feb 06 03:23:59 I have this other idea about how to pipeline the downloading of the Packages files and loading the feeds into Preware in parallel, thereby almost halving the startup time Feb 06 03:24:16 reality9110: just use the preware-bootstrap script and say Y to the testing feed. Feb 06 03:24:20 That's my only complaint about it Feb 06 03:24:40 I'm so out of the loop on it... Feb 06 03:24:51 I have no idea what preware-boots trap script is Feb 06 03:25:01 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Preware_Bootstrap Feb 06 03:25:13 last three lines on the page Feb 06 03:26:13 On it Feb 06 03:32:30 halo Feb 06 03:32:51 quick question, does anyone have any idea what a postal code is? Feb 06 03:33:13 is it some sort of covert code? Feb 06 03:33:15 non-american zip code Feb 06 03:33:30 rwhitby: Feb 06 03:33:47 thanks Feb 06 03:34:05 LoneStar99: many different formats in many different countries Feb 06 03:35:10 rwhitby: earlier we where chattting on people not knowing what it was Feb 06 03:35:47 Error: service request: com.palm.systemmanager is not running. Feb 06 03:36:05 anyone have experience with the sys manager? Feb 06 03:37:39 rwhitby: what is the command for mkdir but not directory a file... Feb 06 03:37:52 touch? Feb 06 03:38:25 thanks, that worked Feb 06 03:40:21 touch indeed Feb 06 03:41:20 reality9110: did it work? Feb 06 03:47:23 Preware 0.9.19 is released Feb 06 03:53:44 rwhitby: cool, is it recommended to upgrade or install from scratch? Feb 06 03:54:07 i have only done novaterm wget, - then sh... Feb 06 03:55:49 you can use preware to update Feb 06 03:55:54 LoneStar99: upgrade from within preware Feb 06 03:57:30 ok cool Feb 06 03:59:18 * rwhitby bbl Feb 06 04:00:33 that is weird, have sold 2 apps via the web disto.... Feb 06 04:04:43 anyone have any luck with ssh on their pre Feb 06 04:13:05 Where's that sprint chat thing? Feb 06 04:13:22 To talk to a customer support rep Feb 06 04:14:37 Nevermind...found it hidden deep in the menus Feb 06 04:22:39 Trying to see if sprint will give me a free data connection on one phone for development and then allow me to have my plan on another phone Feb 06 05:29:36 if I recreate a view in html/css in Ares and delete the view-chrome.js ares creates will Ares still be happy with the project? Feb 06 05:47:56 swishy: you have to also delete the view-chrome.js from the sources file. but yes it will. Feb 06 05:50:42 swishy: and you also have to delete the two references to chrome setup in the assistant. Feb 06 06:05:02 Epix ok thanks Feb 06 06:05:27 no problem Feb 06 06:07:51 hi all! Feb 06 06:18:38 Hey Jen Feb 06 06:19:26 hi doc! Feb 06 06:19:33 How goes it? Feb 06 06:20:02 it goes very well you? Feb 06 06:20:09 are you ready to commit to the move? Feb 06 06:20:25 Nope Feb 06 06:20:27 Not yet Feb 06 06:21:06 Lots of factors go into it. Feb 06 06:21:08 not sure about doing it? Feb 06 06:21:10 Preware 0.9.19 working for everyone? Feb 06 06:21:39 rwhitby don't know need to update one sec Feb 06 06:22:02 There's other offers on the table. Feb 06 06:22:10 It's a matter of where I want to end up in the end. Feb 06 06:22:15 Hello Feb 06 06:22:24 There you go scottb Feb 06 06:22:39 doc i think you should give san diego more consideration Feb 06 06:22:48 I make an awesome Sunday Night dinner Feb 06 06:22:52 hah Feb 06 06:23:09 I'm actually looking at Miami as well Feb 06 06:23:22 And Jupiter, FL Feb 06 06:23:54 But, no. If I do CA, it's going to be in the LA area. I have family there. Feb 06 06:23:59 Any one know if there are real time stats for app downloads / ratings? Feb 06 06:24:17 scottb: It's not real time Feb 06 06:24:38 Hmm, ok Feb 06 06:24:48 reality9110: they say south beach is nice. Feb 06 06:24:48 florida is very nice Feb 06 06:24:59 haeffb: It's ok. Feb 06 06:25:08 Housing costs are way down there. Feb 06 06:25:20 rwhitby you in here still? Feb 06 06:25:32 JenP: yep Feb 06 06:25:38 awesome! Feb 06 06:25:59 You wouldn't happen to know how often the app updates in the catalog would you? The feed shows I have a new comment that I would love to read Feb 06 06:26:03 how the heck do i uninstall the camera patch that makes it open each time u use the slider? Feb 06 06:27:01 JenP: did you install it via Preware? Feb 06 06:27:12 scottb: If you only have one comment, it's probably, "I can't install the app! Won't let me download! 0 stars!" Feb 06 06:27:19 no i think quick install Feb 06 06:27:42 it doesn't even show up as a patch installed on preware Feb 06 06:27:54 Fortunately its not that bad, it's a 3 star rating Feb 06 06:28:09 Just dying to know what lost me 2 stars Feb 06 06:28:21 scottb: What app? Feb 06 06:28:27 Code Breaker Feb 06 06:28:31 (in beta atm) Feb 06 06:32:14 JenP: try removing with quick install then Feb 06 06:32:15 if that fails, EPR Feb 06 06:32:21 if that fails, WebOS Repair Utility Feb 06 06:32:35 if that fails, WebOS Doctor Feb 06 06:32:46 smiles...kk Feb 06 06:33:09 oh it's raining! Feb 06 06:34:13 deleted my google calendar account. now it won't come back Feb 06 06:34:17 It's been raining for 3 days here Feb 06 06:35:33 we don't get a lot of rain here...so it's always a celebration...and it means i can use the fireplace...if i open all the windows Feb 06 06:35:59 So Preware is going to need a country selection mechanism Feb 06 06:35:59 see your own country by default, but be able to select others as well Feb 06 06:36:11 agreed Feb 06 06:36:39 also still need to find a webOS developer who wants to add vendor blacklisting to Preware Feb 06 06:37:00 what do you mean? thought you already had that Feb 06 06:37:12 I figure you swipe an app to the side in any of the Available Apps lists, and it confirms to blacklist just that app, or all apps by the same vendor. Feb 06 06:37:42 then a preference screen to see the blacklist and give them a reprieve Feb 06 06:38:18 no, we have a patch that does it for the app catalog, but we don't have anything in Preware Feb 06 06:38:30 and the app catalog patch just dims them, it doesn't remove them Feb 06 06:38:44 yeah noticed that Feb 06 06:49:52 Wow =/ Feb 06 06:49:59 App reviews suck Feb 06 06:50:22 scottb: Be lucky you only have two. Feb 06 06:51:02 Do people just troll the beta store to tear down devs? Feb 06 06:51:24 scottb: You have to understand...people are idiots. Feb 06 06:51:30 There's no other way to cut it Feb 06 06:52:06 I've posted two apps in "BETA" and had nothing but bitching and moaning from people who don't read instructions Feb 06 06:52:08 scottb I got an angry email from someone who was mad because he couldn't enter a negative apr Feb 06 06:52:26 Wow =/ Feb 06 06:53:01 scottb: You think that's bad? I had an irrate person who didn't read the instructions and demanded his money back...my application is free. Feb 06 06:53:10 scottb: more than half the population is of below average intelligence Feb 06 06:53:22 LMAO Feb 06 06:53:24 The reviews I hate the most the ones that complain about a missing feature that is in the application. Feb 06 06:53:26 oh that's awesome Feb 06 06:53:55 Epix: No kidding. I have a 3 star review saying, "Would get a 5 but there are no Presets" Feb 06 06:54:04 I want to kill that person Feb 06 06:54:10 Wow, maybe I should have stayed in my cubicle hacking away at html Feb 06 06:54:30 scottb: Brace yourself. It's only going to get worse from here on out Feb 06 06:54:32 * rwhitby bbl Feb 06 06:55:04 If people don't like an app why not give feedback so the dev can improve it to their liking? Feb 06 06:55:26 scottb: refer to my first comment Feb 06 06:55:31 scottb: try not to take too much to heart Feb 06 06:55:34 haha that would be too easy Feb 06 06:55:52 they would rather just demand it to be better Feb 06 06:55:55 I went so far as to propose killing the review system completely Feb 06 06:56:33 I want the review system and the user feedback but the trolls are kinda lame =/ Feb 06 06:56:48 i'd rather put some sort of better review on what apps get in Feb 06 06:56:58 cause there are too many really really bad ones in there Feb 06 06:57:02 I want a system where developers have access to the individual's email addresses Feb 06 06:57:12 I don't know about going that far, but letting the dev's comment on certain reviews that have wrong facts in them would be nice Feb 06 06:57:16 i second that Feb 06 06:57:20 I love my two 0 star ratings on Blind Dial from people so dumb that they dont realize that "press hold drag" isn't "double-tap" Feb 06 06:57:35 hehehhe Feb 06 06:57:38 I can't even comment on any apps. My "Review" button doesn't work Feb 06 06:58:05 if that bug happened to all the idiots Feb 06 06:58:18 A co-worker of mine has that same issue with reviews, is your pre rooted? Feb 06 06:58:29 if only* Feb 06 06:59:21 257 downloads in 2 hours, not bad, now if people would leave feedback so I can get this thing App Catalog ready Feb 06 07:00:15 I love my 0 star review from the idiot that said the update wiped out her Presets... Complete and total impossibility. Presets aren't even stored on the device. They're stored on the server. The server account was not wiped out with the update. I matched the person's name to their email the best I could and her username is still on the server. And she's still using her account meaning she's Feb 06 07:00:20 still using the app. Feb 06 07:00:31 Still...0 star review. Feb 06 07:00:54 reality9110 you can challenge it with Chuq and see if you can get it removed Feb 06 07:01:03 I'm done challenging. Feb 06 07:01:07 There's just too many reviews. Feb 06 07:01:22 ;-) Feb 06 07:01:53 They just need a team to monitor the reviews before they become public Feb 06 07:02:06 What I should do is email that person and say that I'll remove her account for her. Feb 06 07:02:22 Or just do it ;) Feb 06 07:02:29 Then she really won't have any Presets left Feb 06 07:02:53 What apps have you guys done? Feb 06 07:03:24 and if she says, "Oh no. I got them working again." I'll say, "No no. You said you'd delete the application. It's ok. We wouldn't want to waste usernames and server space." Feb 06 07:03:47 scottb: RadioTime Feb 06 07:04:03 debt free, tasty toons Feb 06 07:04:52 scottb: And you should download it if you haven't already...so I can get that $10,000 second prize. Feb 06 07:05:17 I want that 10k though, I need an excuse to buy a new car :P Feb 06 07:05:28 scottb: It's by category Feb 06 07:05:32 What do you use location services for? Feb 06 07:05:33 You're in games. I'm in music Feb 06 07:05:42 Determination of local radio stations. Feb 06 07:05:46 I'm all over the board Feb 06 07:06:07 Are you in music? Feb 06 07:06:15 I'm doing games, productivity apps, utilities, reference, and what ever else, I'm not in music though so I'll download it :P Feb 06 07:06:36 Exactly Feb 06 07:06:48 It's a good app... Feb 06 07:06:56 I only asked because location services scare me, I always wonder what that data will be used for. Feb 06 07:07:11 Mind taking a look at my beta app and giving some feedback? Feb 06 07:07:48 Oh nice, you have boise state radio :D Feb 06 07:07:53 I'll wait for it to hit the App Catalog so you get a count on it Feb 06 07:08:39 No real worries about count, I plan to sell it for 99cents to try and cover the cost of buying a palm pre Feb 06 07:08:58 http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.scottbyrns.codebreaker Feb 06 07:09:07 I have app scoop Feb 06 07:09:15 Ah Feb 06 07:09:27 Btw, digging your app :) Feb 06 07:10:08 scottb: One more trick to it (which goes toward reading instructions). You can go to RadioTime.com, login with your username/password, and add/delete/organize presets from there and they'll automatically show up on the device. Feb 06 07:11:23 Of course, not all stations on the website work on the device because of Palm's limited codec support Feb 06 07:12:03 I'm glad that my station works then :) Feb 06 07:12:15 scottb: You need a proper Help and Preferences section in your app. Feb 06 07:12:34 On the app menu Feb 06 07:13:00 I noticed today that apps did that, havent had a chance to look into how yet Feb 06 07:13:24 I'm only about 3 days into pre dev so I'm stumbling a fair bit Feb 06 07:13:25 Did your app get "Published" status? Feb 06 07:13:57 Yeah Feb 06 07:14:16 They used to reject for that Feb 06 07:14:25 They review beta apps? Feb 06 07:14:43 Ah, no Feb 06 07:15:01 I didn't pay attention to this entire beta thing Feb 06 07:15:07 Been too busy Feb 06 07:15:11 np Feb 06 07:16:31 I haven't seen any thing about the app drop down in the docs, any resources you can point me at? Feb 06 07:16:42 Yeah, one sec Feb 06 07:17:13 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1882&Itemid=239#.appMenu Feb 06 07:17:59 Ah, perfect, thank you Feb 06 07:18:19 bbl, need dinner and smokes Feb 06 07:21:59 wow steven segal movie on hbo Feb 06 07:32:45 Where do I add this to my app? I tried to add it in the StageAssistant but my app hands on load Feb 06 07:33:39 scottb: wnat do u need 2 add? Feb 06 07:34:02 Mojo.Menu.appMenu Feb 06 07:34:48 When I add it to a scene it doesn't allow me to tap that menu item Feb 06 07:35:18 you want to add help? Feb 06 07:35:26 Yeah Feb 06 07:36:20 The pre documentation is some serious weak sauce Feb 06 07:36:24 Err webos doc Feb 06 07:37:02 http://webos.pastebin.com/d59d240c6 Feb 06 07:39:07 Awesome! Feb 06 07:39:15 line 5-13 are optional that is if you want to add something like "Edit - View - Help" right now it will only display "Edit - Help" Feb 06 07:39:15 That works perfectly :) Feb 06 07:41:14 Is there a way to implement this globally rather than for each scene? Feb 06 07:42:37 there is i have not done it though, but I hear, placing it above or in "StageAssistant.prototype.setup = function() { }" Feb 06 07:42:57 i would guess above Feb 06 07:42:59 Tried that, that's what causes my app to freeze on launch Feb 06 07:45:53 can you paste your app assistant code in pastebin? Feb 06 07:47:01 It's one line *.pushScene('main') Feb 06 07:49:25 what is the file called? Feb 06 07:51:14 stage-assistant.js Feb 06 07:52:50 Thanks for your help, I'll drop by these parts more often :) Feb 06 07:52:54 Time to head home though Feb 06 09:14:18 er what did I do wrong? com.kaddstudios.iqk Not allowed to load local resource: file:///stylesheets/GooView.css, :0 Feb 06 09:18:15 I included it in the index.html Feb 06 09:18:45 this was created in Ares to if it makes any difference Feb 06 09:41:12 How do you capture the enter key being pressed? it doesn't seem to through the keypress event. Feb 06 14:35:53 <_azdak> Hey- has anybody else had problems with audio objects? Feb 06 15:25:03 hello world Feb 06 15:33:15 hey haeffb Feb 06 15:33:48 are you back in the webOS business? Feb 06 15:33:55 lol Feb 06 15:34:04 yeah i know. i wear many hats... Feb 06 15:34:30 today i am going to be in the oil furnace business. mine is on the fritz Feb 06 15:36:23 awesome. Feb 06 15:36:58 today i am going to be in the maid service business. wife wants help cleaning up before the in-laws get here thursday Feb 06 15:37:30 there is nothing sexier to a woman than a man with a vacuum cleaner on his hand.. Feb 06 15:37:53 roomba! Feb 06 15:37:55 ... well, this was a good time to log in. Feb 06 15:38:06 roomba and not really times saves. Feb 06 15:38:23 instead of doing the vac'ing yourself you end up watch it go around in circles Feb 06 15:38:31 say that again, but this time in engrish Feb 06 15:38:39 sorry. watching tv Feb 06 15:38:49 roombas dont save much time Feb 06 15:39:03 because you end up watching them go in circles around the room Feb 06 15:39:27 ah. I turn it on before I leave in the mornin'. dump it when I get home. Feb 06 15:39:50 funny to watch if you have pets though Feb 06 15:41:39 all I know is I want a DJ Roomba. like in Parks & Rec. Feb 06 15:44:03 running JSLint on Palm sample code is not a productive exercise. Feb 06 15:44:47 i was expecting flash by now Feb 06 15:45:17 I think it has to come AFTER 1.4... Feb 06 15:46:11 Bmyers: I have now gotten Komodo working Feb 06 15:46:44 WTF. Feb 06 15:46:50 frigging audio... Feb 06 15:47:02 why is it still making that stupid transparent bar ;_; Feb 06 15:47:07 I cannot for the life of me figure this out Feb 06 15:47:24 even the webos101.com sample Music class causes this problem. Feb 06 15:48:07 they said it would appear in the app catalog soon Feb 06 15:48:10 at the ces Feb 06 15:48:11 not sure if I like it any better than eclipse, though Feb 06 15:52:25 eclipse's search is the biggest problem w/it. Feb 06 15:52:31 seriously, no "find next" keyboard shortcut? Feb 06 15:54:40 what is this crap: http://pastebin.com/m6e5bf762 Feb 06 16:07:38 I'm half-tempted to just say "screw it" and leave the dark bar there.... rgghhh Feb 06 16:07:49 I've spent three days on this crap! Feb 06 16:16:12 haeffb good features in both Feb 06 16:16:25 eclipse has that function index thing Feb 06 16:20:25 whee fixed, time to take new screenshots Feb 06 16:29:23 howdy boys and girls Feb 06 16:36:17 hi LoneStar99 Feb 06 16:36:49 rolsworth: how long is "soon"? Feb 06 16:38:14 u do flash sugardave? Feb 06 16:38:18 nope Feb 06 16:38:43 never once looked at it beyond some initial training..."this is a frame, this is a tween" Feb 06 16:38:52 and then I dropped it like a hot rock Feb 06 16:39:05 wow, you're an expert compared to me then.. Feb 06 16:39:18 because the value of the training lies in the lab exercises, not the stupid pretty flashing pictures Feb 06 16:40:04 I'm dreading Flash on the Pre, though...that and the PDK, I will be relegated to the darkest corner of the amateur dungeon Feb 06 16:40:54 sugardave: haha, me too. BUT, I will/am learning C++ Feb 06 16:40:57 Palm I think is hoping that you wont be Feb 06 16:41:16 I asked Lemektron kind that same thing Feb 06 16:41:33 remember the PalmVii and web clipping? Feb 06 16:42:10 once the palmos sdk really got going, web clipping kinda died out Feb 06 16:42:11 no Feb 06 16:42:29 this is my first foray into mobile apps, as well Feb 06 16:42:34 Tibfib: I have a book somehwere... Feb 06 16:42:40 yeah well maybe i am just old Feb 06 16:42:47 nah, I'm just late Feb 06 16:43:54 well any. the theory i believe is to keep JS webos type app useful through libraries that really do stuff Feb 06 16:44:06 sugardave: this is my first programming language. Feb 06 16:44:17 well I guess HTML, CSS, and Javascript are... Feb 06 16:44:18 they would not have invested in Ares so heavily if they though webos JS would die when the pdk came out Feb 06 16:44:27 <_azdak> sugardave- if you're up on JS, moving into actionscript should be more or less painless Feb 06 16:44:43 (if they thought)... Feb 06 16:44:44 _azdak: yeah, but then when do I become an artist? Feb 06 16:44:48 ;) Feb 06 16:44:53 <_azdak> haha Feb 06 16:45:07 Tibfib: moi, aussi Feb 06 16:45:34 haha, I just got a support request for Yule Log: "when is there going to be an update?" Feb 06 16:45:47 "Probably around Fall...since it's a Yule Log" Feb 06 16:45:49 lol what would you add to a yule log? Feb 06 16:46:01 <_azdak> I honestly think the js/html5 direction has a lot more promise in the long run than flash Feb 06 16:46:05 I need to re-shoot an actual video and not use animated gif :D Feb 06 16:46:33 _azdak: yeah, as long as they open up some more hardware...got a couple nifty game ideas, but I need control over bluetooth Feb 06 16:46:58 i think thats something that is coming Feb 06 16:47:03 <_azdak> yeah- if they get good, stable openGL support, that shit'll kill Feb 06 16:47:04 I hope so Feb 06 16:47:20 erg, GL.....another thing I know 0 about Feb 06 16:47:28 if you can talk to the hardware and do cool stuff. IMHO i dont think you'll be left out in the cold.. Feb 06 16:48:07 yeah, I won't give up...too much money to be made even at the hobbyist level Feb 06 16:48:18 good for you.. Feb 06 16:48:27 glad you're making some coin Feb 06 16:48:38 <_azdak> how are yall doin on that front, if you don't mind me askin? Feb 06 16:48:49 <_azdak> I'm about to submit a couple apps and a little anxious Feb 06 16:48:55 _azdak: I've made about $700 on 3 apps Feb 06 16:49:02 advertising is really were its at Feb 06 16:49:12 1 is $1.99 and the other 2 are $1.43 Feb 06 16:49:15 selling apps is not as profitable Feb 06 16:49:25 Bmyers: that's going to depend on the app type Feb 06 16:49:44 I've made JACK SHIT on advertising on the 2 lite versions of BOFH Excuse Generator and Yule Log Feb 06 16:49:58 true, but even still. a free app is dl'd more than a paid one Feb 06 16:50:05 if you have an app that's popular and runs a long time, then advertising is a good model Feb 06 16:50:12 it's about "face time" as Doc would say Feb 06 16:50:19 hmmm, true Feb 06 16:50:32 so it's the apps, not the ads.. Feb 06 16:50:47 lite apps with advertisements will continue to generate revenue forever and ever and ever, so long as it exists and people open the app up every once in a while. Feb 06 16:50:48 _azdak: and my first app went in at the very end of October, if you want to extrapolate that Feb 06 16:50:50 Bmyers: http://www.cyrket.com/p/palm/com.wpsee.hours/ Feb 06 16:51:15 yes i have seen it.. Feb 06 16:51:15 haeffb: where's my coffee? Feb 06 16:51:20 finally fixed all the kinks out of my new preferences model, fixed a bug I didn't even know it existed, NOW it's time to take new screenies FOR REALZ. Feb 06 16:51:33 Kuraiou: first app? Feb 06 16:51:34 sitting on the counter. come get it. Feb 06 16:51:43 Dice Roller. Feb 06 16:51:45 this will be an update. Feb 06 16:51:47 <_azdak> it's hard to get an idea of the volume of sales on the app catalogue Feb 06 16:51:48 ah Feb 06 16:52:00 adding 3 features people requested and fixing a few bugs, and I tweaked the code a lot. Feb 06 16:52:01 _azdak: basically impossible, actually Feb 06 16:52:10 there is an app i really dont expect to make much off of Feb 06 16:52:13 I've made exactly $0 so far. Feb 06 16:52:18 got another one that'll be free that i'm hoping to do better on Feb 06 16:52:18 broken even after the listing fee /o/ Feb 06 16:52:29 I've got a free app that I'm going to start on monday, that shouldn't take more than a week to complete Feb 06 16:52:29 Kuraiou: me too. except for donations from precentral Feb 06 16:52:32 it'll be pretty handy. Feb 06 16:52:44 I always seem to end up doing nerdy apps.... Feb 06 16:52:47 I'm working a trail/pro version app at the moment...and trying to work on a modular download system for basic in-app module purchases Feb 06 16:53:05 is that ok with palm? Feb 06 16:53:10 can u do that? Feb 06 16:53:15 who me? Feb 06 16:53:29 no your aunt tilly Feb 06 16:53:34 yeah u Feb 06 16:53:43 yeah, chuq has already said he can't wait to see in-app purchases for apps Feb 06 16:53:49 <_azdak> sugardave- where you the one I was talking to about this a couple days ago? Feb 06 16:53:50 or do you mean an app that isnt is app cat? Feb 06 16:53:58 aren't there some already doing that? Feb 06 16:53:58 how do you that? Feb 06 16:54:14 wordace or something? Feb 06 16:54:18 <_azdak> The word/card ace people are doing it Feb 06 16:54:19 Bmyers: the base trial and default module will be on the app catalog Feb 06 16:54:24 but new modules will come from my cloud Feb 06 16:54:32 i wanna do that too Feb 06 16:54:35 _azdak: I'm not sure :D Feb 06 16:54:45 <_azdak> me neither :P Feb 06 16:54:50 do you know how it'll get done sugardave? Feb 06 16:55:34 painfully....will have to determine if I want to send them to a PayPal page or force them to enter their creds in my app...lots of stickiness to overcome Feb 06 16:55:55 AND I know, wait for it....JACK SHIT about PayPal integrationg Feb 06 16:55:59 will you dl something to the device? Feb 06 16:56:00 <_azdak> be a swell thing to FOSS ;) Feb 06 16:56:01 so, I got that going for me Feb 06 16:56:09 or will it run off your "cloud" Feb 06 16:56:41 Bmyers: no, I'll send down a bunch (or one huge) .js to store in the db, then run the setup functions in them, etc. Feb 06 16:57:16 <_azdak> the paypal API isn't too bad, as I remember it Feb 06 16:57:17 cool Feb 06 16:57:25 i gotta see how u do that.. Feb 06 16:57:28 it's going to be a major PITA, but worthwhile, I think Feb 06 16:57:39 its not too bad.. Feb 06 16:57:48 Bmyers: new Function('block of js code'); is VERY powerful ;) Feb 06 16:58:18 just as evil as eval, in fact, but I don't think jslint complains on it :D Feb 06 16:58:19 but where is the block of js code? Feb 06 16:58:35 in sql? Feb 06 16:58:43 or a dl'd file? Feb 06 16:58:47 Bmyers: that will come from the cloud vi ajax, stored in db so they don't have to get it again (unless they remove the app) Feb 06 16:59:21 select a blob and "eval" it? Feb 06 16:59:26 pretty much Feb 06 16:59:35 coolio.. Feb 06 16:59:47 check out the big brain on sugardave.. Feb 06 16:59:50 heh Feb 06 17:01:01 you could even load up the db with all features and demo them for 10 days or something. then shut them off Feb 06 17:01:06 now, what would be really awesome, is if Palm gave us some way to verify a phone/palm profile has purchased an app on the catalog AND give us the ability to talk back to them to update apps purchased on our own servers Feb 06 17:01:44 because I can see a situation where I might want to also sell my app on my own server (allowed, I believe)...but that kind of breaks the whole update procedure Feb 06 17:01:54 IF you have it in the catalog, as well Feb 06 17:02:10 hmm.. Feb 06 17:02:31 i'll put my money on big brain.. you can do it sugardave!! Feb 06 17:02:44 hehe, thanks Feb 06 17:03:29 now I have to decide, list in list or list in drawer....I spent forever getting list in list to work (with separate models, too), but it's kind of ugly when the top-level and first sub-level have remove and add capability Feb 06 17:03:51 and you're worried the pdk making you passe' Feb 06 17:03:56 heh Feb 06 17:04:11 you know the kids these days....they want 3D Feb 06 17:04:26 kids Feb 06 17:04:40 get off my lawn! Feb 06 17:04:46 ... Feb 06 17:04:47 they think the whole world is one big scratch and sniff.. Feb 06 17:04:51 should I change my app from $1.00 to $0.99? Feb 06 17:05:38 tigercountrysoftware at gmail.com Feb 06 17:05:50 I personally prefer even numbers, but... if I have to go with the trends... Feb 06 17:06:00 Kuraiou: I like $1.43 Feb 06 17:06:04 make it $1.17 Feb 06 17:06:10 and never tell anyone why Feb 06 17:06:11 1.43 is a weird price, and I'm not going to raise the price :( Feb 06 17:06:11 1.33 Feb 06 17:06:11 gives you one round dollar Feb 06 17:06:19 ah. Feb 06 17:06:20 1.47 Feb 06 17:06:21 (plus some micro-pennies) Feb 06 17:06:37 99 omaha omaha Feb 06 17:06:40 hike! Feb 06 17:06:44 make it $1.17 and send the .17 to haiti Feb 06 17:07:49 what's the psychology of raising the price, though? what will people think? that I'm an asshole so forget about giving this guy money, that it's too expensive now and it's sad but I shoulda bought it earlier or well, that I should jump on the bandwagon before it raises in price again, or that he must be keen on updating a lot if he's willing to raise the price? Feb 06 17:07:58 it seems too risky to bump it up, even if it's just .43 Feb 06 17:08:08 oh well. time to play furnace repair man in my basement. see u folks l8r Feb 06 17:08:18 Kuraiou: you're betting that future customers will remember what the price used to be Feb 06 17:08:21 BMyers_away: have fun! Feb 06 17:08:25 later BM! Feb 06 17:08:48 Kuraiou: that's not a bet I would take...there are over 1K apps...they'll never remember what the price used to be Feb 06 17:08:58 and your existing customers will feel they got a deal Feb 06 17:10:29 <_azdak> I'd run with .99 Feb 06 17:10:37 <_azdak> there's a reason why wal-mart does it Feb 06 17:10:59 sugar: you are the only person in the App Store to go 1.43 :) Feb 06 17:11:09 hell, I don't even remember the prices on apps I bought, much less ones that I haven't Feb 06 17:11:30 <_azdak> - seconded Feb 06 17:11:38 I will go $1.42 and undercut sugardave Feb 06 17:11:42 XDXD Feb 06 17:12:03 sounds like the WoW auction house. Feb 06 17:14:53 submitted at 1.43 Feb 06 17:14:59 if it fails I'll just lower the price back down and call it a wash :/ Feb 06 17:17:25 Kuraiou: there used to be another app in there with that price...I stole that idea ;) Feb 06 17:18:18 it's pretty clever, makes it a lot easier to track how much you've made. Feb 06 17:18:24 lol Feb 06 17:18:24 alright, shower. Feb 06 17:27:44 damn, doc was looking for me last night...wonder what's up? Feb 06 17:54:13 who here is an open-source license guru? Feb 06 18:03:22 and by "guru" I mean "knows anything at all about them" Feb 06 18:03:41 haha, I think I'm a "guru" then Feb 06 18:03:42 :P Feb 06 18:05:24 haeffb: rick-home is good at giving the high-level overview Feb 06 18:05:37 he recommended to me lgpl or mit Feb 06 18:49:23 sugardave: can Komodo show hints for CSS styles - for example, eclipse shows the potential values for margin: when I hover over it... Feb 06 19:07:43 Hello Feb 06 19:08:04 Trying to get logging working, documentation is horrible Feb 06 19:08:30 Added Mojo.Log.error('asdf') but nothing Feb 06 19:08:55 how are you looking at the logs? palm-log? Feb 06 19:10:21 The debugger Feb 06 19:10:28 =/ Feb 06 19:10:34 in Ares? Feb 06 19:10:47 Running in vm and ssh'd in Feb 06 19:11:10 generally, I use palm-log. Feb 06 19:11:26 from a command prompt, palm-log - d tcp -f com.my.app Feb 06 19:11:37 -d tcp Feb 06 19:11:50 -d is device tcp is emulator Feb 06 19:12:03 -f is follow so it will continue to update as your app runs Feb 06 19:13:44 Oh nice! Feb 06 19:13:46 Thanks m8 Feb 06 19:15:53 also, if you add a framework_config.json and put {"logLevel": 20} you will also be able to see warning and info messages in emu Feb 06 19:16:21 however, device does not write warning and info to log Feb 06 19:19:12 Does the pre get easier to dev for over time or is it just a mess in general? Feb 06 19:19:38 there's a learning curve, for sure Feb 06 19:19:48 some things are very tricksy Feb 06 19:19:51 The JS part is easy enough but the dev tools, docs, etc all seem to be lacking quite a bit Feb 06 19:20:55 docs are...uh...have room for improvement! Feb 06 19:21:18 tools are getting better, but still have a ways to go as well Feb 06 19:21:23 It would be nice to see the docs editable by devs Feb 06 19:21:41 Two of the examples I tried yesterday were syntacticly wrong Feb 06 19:21:55 http://www.webos101.com has *some* examples Feb 06 19:26:09 Finally fixed my app! Feb 06 19:30:27 Thanks for your help again Feb 06 19:50:49 morning Feb 06 19:51:52 afternoon Feb 06 19:52:00 its afternoon here as well Feb 06 19:52:47 though i just woke up and ate breakfast Feb 06 19:53:14 oooh. eat. good idea! Feb 06 19:53:44 yes but be careful Feb 06 19:53:56 if you leave your computer alone for long enough, all of your code will un-write itself Feb 06 19:54:25 do you know anything about OS licenses? Feb 06 19:54:35 some Feb 06 19:54:54 preparing to submit my app to catalog as OS. Need to determine which license... Feb 06 19:55:08 ok Feb 06 19:55:13 ask yourself how you want your code to be used Feb 06 19:55:33 free for anybody, commercial or private, Feb 06 19:55:35 sparingly Feb 06 19:56:09 hhmm... can you explain? Feb 06 19:56:52 if you want people to only use it for non-commercial work, and credit you, check out Creative Commons Feb 06 19:57:06 free for all forever, check out MIT Feb 06 19:58:20 codeslaw is it okay to change the license between versions? Feb 06 19:58:49 i'm pretty sure, you can't add a more restrictive license to code already existing in the wild Feb 06 19:59:01 i'm sure you can sub-license different sections of the code Feb 06 19:59:06 so, if I charge for an app in the catalog, does that restrict which licenses I use? Can't use GPL? Feb 06 19:59:24 no, as the license holder, you are entitled to charge for it Feb 06 19:59:25 so would i keep the files intact and just add code around it? Feb 06 19:59:50 dylanmei: you can change the license on your app, and people can't use your latest source, but they can still use the prior code you released Feb 06 20:00:02 so, GPL it and then I can charge for it, but if someone else re-distributes it, they can't? Feb 06 20:00:47 haeffb: yes, though check out the documentation for GPL just to be sure. aka don't take my words to the bank =P Feb 06 20:01:07 so if version 1 is MIT i can remove the old license from the source and replace it with CC for version 2, yeah? Feb 06 20:02:39 dylanmei: i'm fairly sure of this, but also might want to check out the rules on MIT Feb 06 20:02:46 haeffb: GPL info: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html#Introduction Feb 06 20:02:56 thx codeslaw Feb 06 20:04:12 rick-home: ping Feb 06 20:04:18 np dylanmei Feb 06 20:19:05 ah, the eternal bunch of licensing questions... Feb 06 20:20:27 sigh. too confusing Feb 06 20:34:15 how do the words to that old song go? something like "freedom is just another word for nothing left to license?" Feb 06 20:34:19 i think... Feb 06 20:35:46 anyone else having a problem with their pre where its clock slowly gets faster? Feb 06 20:36:06 my clock on the pre was 11minutes fast yesterday Feb 06 20:36:26 i rebooted it yesterday and it was fine, but its 2minutes fast today Feb 06 20:38:40 dawm: Time is usually determined from the carrier Feb 06 20:39:02 yeah thats how i found out it was off Feb 06 20:39:18 So the carrier is off? Feb 06 20:39:26 a coworker (that also has sprint) their clock was different than mine Feb 06 20:39:31 ah Feb 06 20:39:54 when i goto the time/date app, i can turn off network time and network location, and set it manually Feb 06 20:40:16 but if i turn them on it sits there forever updating and never does so i have to throw the card away (i waited 15minutes) Feb 06 20:40:29 ive got it manually set now but its rather annoying to gain time heh Feb 06 20:40:55 No idea. Feb 06 20:45:16 dawm: I've seen that issue as well -- my phone had it for a while -- and I've found that turning on, then off airplane mode resets it to the proper time. Feb 06 20:45:30 nothing to do but to continually reboot it :( Feb 06 20:45:48 well im glad im not the only one heh Feb 06 20:46:14 it slowly gained time tho, the otherday it was 3 mintues fast, then 6, then 10 then 11, i initially thought my bedside alarmclock was messing up Feb 06 20:46:25 since i was comparing it to the pre on the touchstone Feb 06 21:07:58 dawm: it's running fast, basically, and not checking against the server/network time when you have network time turned on., Feb 06 21:08:06 turning airplane mode on then off again forces it to reset to system time. Feb 06 21:08:17 but manual or system, you're going to have to keep resetting it, because it just runs fast. Feb 06 21:08:29 which is dumb as hell :( Feb 06 21:15:50 get a warranty replacement Feb 06 21:17:21 why does Komodo think this is incorrect syntax? "logLevel": 20 Feb 06 21:48:57 haeffb: komodo doesn't like the structure of .json files, it seems Feb 06 21:49:10 you just have to learn to ignore it Feb 06 21:49:51 reality9110: hey, were you looking for me last night? Feb 06 22:00:20 i know this is close to inciting a riot but... why would someone use komodo rather than emacs? :-/ Feb 06 22:00:53 ivanst, immediately obvious its a gui editor? :) Feb 06 22:02:59 komodo vs eclipse? Feb 06 22:03:43 i realized that over the last three years with common lisp, i've become an emacs-zombie. Feb 06 22:04:48 haeffb, http://www.activestate.com/komodo/features/ and its doesnt bring your box to its knees Feb 06 22:04:57 * swishy also makes note he doesnt use komodo Feb 06 22:04:58 :) Feb 06 22:05:25 I've been using eclipse for a couple of months. Been working in Komodo for a couple of days. Don't really see much difference. Feb 06 22:07:09 interesting , I guess these days most fully featured GUI IDE 's pretty much do the same thing Feb 06 22:07:49 do JS arrays support push() and pop() Feb 06 22:07:51 in komodo you can press f3 to search again. Feb 06 22:07:53 codeslaw: yup. Feb 06 22:08:04 thx Feb 06 22:08:06 having to bring up the search box every time I want to cycle through instances of something is so obnoxious. Feb 06 22:08:07 I must be missing something, theres nothing sepcial required to include a stylesheet is there? Feb 06 22:08:22 gotta include it in index.html Feb 06 22:08:40 I've never even looked at emacs before Feb 06 22:08:43 :O Feb 06 22:08:46 Kuraiou, yeah done that, if I do inline style tags works fine, cant get it to include my css file though Feb 06 22:08:50 vi Feb 06 22:09:14 sugardave, its a great OS just missing a decent text editor Feb 06 22:09:21 heh Feb 06 22:09:32 pencil and paper Feb 06 22:09:42 punchcards, bitches! Feb 06 22:09:46 hehe Feb 06 22:10:05 Feb 06 22:10:09 should be in the head Feb 06 22:10:13 and if it's there it should be linkng Feb 06 22:10:20 if it's not, there might be a problem with some lines in the css file Feb 06 22:13:08 vi is cool, but we did a lot with emacs in college Feb 06 22:13:35 Kuraiou, ok thanks Feb 06 22:27:50 i use emacs all the time... hell, i even have it set to start on login on my mac which is telling a lot i guess Feb 06 22:28:31 you do webos development in emacs? Feb 06 22:28:39 codeslaw: yup Feb 06 22:29:33 right on Feb 06 22:29:44 i hope that explains some of the mess that i've made of bluewasp :-) Feb 06 22:31:51 Kuraiou, I assume doing such in ares is supposed to work? Feb 06 22:32:39 Kuraiou, moved main scene from ares generated to html/css , scene loads but I cant seem to get the css to do anything Feb 06 22:32:57 Kuraiou, yet if I do same thing as an inline style in the index.html all is fine Feb 06 22:47:47 uh Feb 06 22:47:49 I don't use ares Feb 06 22:47:50 so I dunno. Feb 06 22:47:55 but it _should_ work if the file exists. Feb 06 22:48:21 honestly, ares drives me nuts. Feb 06 22:48:43 woo, comic pages written, sent off to artist, time to friggin' relax. Feb 06 22:50:23 ok Feb 06 22:54:43 looks like theres a bug in the html syntax highlighting too Feb 06 23:11:08 why do the palm docs for menus show a screenshot next to ViewMenu of something that isn't even implemented using ViewMenu! Feb 06 23:30:45 hi all Feb 06 23:31:53 dBsooner: nice win for OU today Feb 06 23:31:56 hi JenP Feb 06 23:32:06 hi jenp Feb 06 23:32:06 hi haeffb Feb 06 23:32:13 hi BMyers_away Feb 06 23:32:16 how are you guys? Feb 06 23:32:16 BMyers_away: furnace done? Feb 06 23:32:26 me good. tigers win. Feb 06 23:32:34 lol Feb 06 23:39:51 * haeffb trying to learn about open source licenses Feb 06 23:40:25 MIT license looks good. Feb 07 00:00:29 Looking for people to test Preware 0.9.20 from the testing feed, with fixed French support and added German support. Feb 07 00:42:31 Took the German support out - not good enough for 0.9.21 Feb 07 00:42:42 not good enough to 0.9.20, will need to wait for 0.9.21 Feb 07 00:44:21 hey Rod: whats the deal with the openvpn package? how do you configure it? Feb 07 00:46:03 BMyers_away: it's just an executable at the moment - you need to do everything else in /opt/etc/openvpn/... to configure it manually Feb 07 00:46:17 but with the right config file it works nicely. Feb 07 00:47:07 thats what i figured. no wizbang interface eh? Feb 07 00:51:01 is it possible to get a users Google and Yahoo (for use with other G and Y APIs) credentials or are those protected? Feb 07 00:52:52 OK...I see the Accounts service provides that..nice Feb 07 00:53:03 BMyers_away: nope, there is a pre-openvpn GUI project somewhere, but no-one has written the service for it to use yet. Feb 07 00:53:49 there is a service for it tho is there not? openvpn? Feb 07 00:55:07 no, not a service, just a linux utility Feb 07 00:55:19 no way for webOS apps to talk to it Feb 07 01:03:46 hola amigos Feb 07 01:04:08 suppose I receive data and sometimes its base64 encoded...but not announced as so...is there a way to detect whether its plain-text or base64? Feb 07 01:04:15 LoneStar99: hola Feb 07 01:04:27 LoneStar99: saw your Kitty search! Feb 07 01:05:01 lol, i would have thought not a person would have seen it, since it went web Feb 07 01:05:28 LoneStar99: AppScoop lists those! Feb 07 01:05:36 and that's an official app Feb 07 01:06:25 mistaken sent it via web, put a request for cancellation, have paid for submission in the app store Feb 07 01:06:37 ahhhh Feb 07 01:08:44 the first reviews have been not so good, but amazed it has been purchased via web method 8 times Feb 07 01:09:40 guessing folks don't like the UI? Feb 07 01:09:55 or is it the search performance? Feb 07 01:10:16 anybody familiar with multistage (multiple card) apps? Feb 07 01:10:30 * sugardave points at haeffb. Feb 07 01:10:46 it's him...he's the guy Feb 07 01:10:49 haeffb: ping Feb 07 01:10:58 sugardave: OK, thanks Feb 07 01:11:00 jfelectron Feb 07 01:11:03 ;) Feb 07 01:11:04 well, it is just a simple search, which does well with relevance, but maybe people except a "visual search" or something Feb 07 01:13:20 haeffb: Here's the situation. I have a main stage, where users choose their account to load and then it pushes a navigation panel scene. Each button there psuhes a new card stage. That works great. The problem is, if I go back to the main stage card and swipe back to go back to the account chooser I can't push the navigation panel scene again. Strangely, when I toss the other stage's card, then it pushes the scene. Any idea Feb 07 01:13:43 ? Feb 07 01:14:29 once again, sugardave has oversold my "guru status" Feb 07 01:14:32 LoneStarr9: visual search? Do you mean search as you type? Feb 07 01:14:45 haven't pushed multiple stages, except dashboard. Feb 07 01:14:47 LoneStar99: err...bad typing Feb 07 01:14:56 haeffb: OK...I'll just have to debug them Feb 07 01:15:36 I'm guessing some reference to the main stage somewhere is being lost...just don't know where Feb 07 01:16:04 or rather when I get the stageController...its pointing to the 'active' stage and not the main one Feb 07 01:17:07 a search as this: http://www.primermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/Websites/searchme.jpg Feb 07 01:18:28 jfelectron: are you storing the controller somewhere? Feb 07 01:18:39 LoneStar99: well that's pretty sweet looking...but not exactly easy to code I'm guessing Feb 07 01:19:11 haeffb: no...but I'm using this.controller.stageController....rather than explicitly getting the controller for the main stage Feb 07 01:19:31 I'm guessing once I push the new card this.controller.stageController no longer points to what I want Feb 07 01:19:37 investigating now Feb 07 01:19:48 right, the new card has a different stage Feb 07 01:19:48 jfelectron: you would be surprised, it may not be that difficult Feb 07 01:19:53 different stage controller. Feb 07 01:20:52 this.controller.stageController is being called from the scene stacked on the main stage...so I thought the chain would still exist...but maybe not Feb 07 01:21:33 haeffb: I can't figure out where that undefined is coming from Feb 07 01:22:06 jfelectron: what if you use a cookie to store what ever when the scene pops... Feb 07 01:22:24 want Feb 07 01:22:35 LoneStar99: I can just explicity get the stageController by name from the appController Feb 07 01:23:05 There is something wierd going on....the scene pushes if I focus the other stage Feb 07 01:24:26 LoneStar99: that looks like a rip on CoverFlow Feb 07 01:24:49 I've seen tutorials on it Feb 07 01:25:49 yeah, 55 million dollar rip Feb 07 01:26:51 that is what the "searchme" visual search company got for funding, and blew it like a coke addict, and folded Feb 07 01:30:55 damn....55 million in first round funding? Feb 07 01:31:12 search is king though Feb 07 01:31:55 i think less than a year or something Feb 07 01:32:11 like it or not the web continues to grow due ads and search plays a huge role in that Feb 07 01:32:45 what could they have possibly used that money on? Crazy infrastructure? Lol they should have just used google app engine :) Feb 07 01:32:50 yeah, i love search, i hate ads, but in many cases ads pay the bills Feb 07 01:33:31 yeah we had a little debate about widgets and active desktops.....search is the ultimate UI paradigm for me Feb 07 01:34:04 search is 'organization' agnostic....it just gets you what you want, hopefully quickly Feb 07 01:34:32 active desktop Feb 07 01:34:36 * sugardave shudders. Feb 07 01:35:02 yeah I agree...but a bunch of people (*cough Google *cough) like them Feb 07 01:35:28 I hate widgets....I don't use Dashboard in OS X....just don't get the point Feb 07 01:35:42 widgets in the Desktop and Android sense Feb 07 01:35:47 i personally use yahoo as my main search, have gmail, etc, but all googled out Feb 07 01:36:01 well know yahoo is driven by Bing Feb 07 01:36:20 yahoo is just the advertising arm of Bind now :) Feb 07 01:36:20 well soon to be, not yet Feb 07 01:36:23 was msft ever able to buy yahoo? Feb 07 01:36:35 no...but they have a search agreement Feb 07 01:36:38 ah Feb 07 01:36:49 that new yahoo ceo, is killing the company Feb 07 01:37:09 I used to use lycos Feb 07 01:37:11 Yahoo as search will be no more....but their portal and yahoo mail are hugely successful, hence they have the superior ad revenue stream Feb 07 01:37:13 then google Feb 07 01:37:45 google just needs to start living by thier motto Feb 07 01:37:51 until then they can piss off Feb 07 01:37:52 :) Feb 07 01:38:37 do no evil unless it hurts our bottom line....then do whatever the people who are paying us ask us to do Feb 07 01:38:50 http://uoid.me/article2 Feb 07 01:39:16 jfelectron, exactly or in the latest few cases people are doing better in our arena Feb 07 01:39:20 was interviewed for that article, when the search "agreement" was made Feb 07 01:39:23 oh well....the brains will go (or already have gone) elsewhere Feb 07 01:39:53 didn't the guy behind the extensible search thingy already jump ship? Feb 07 01:40:51 yahoo boss, the open search api for yahoo, had more queries than ask.com in less than a year Feb 07 01:41:10 yep that's it....the guy is some type of prodigy Feb 07 01:41:37 I'll have to ask ask.com what ask.com is because I don't remember :) Feb 07 01:42:15 lol Feb 07 01:42:42 is ask.com actually used outside of the us? Feb 07 01:43:05 yeah, ask.com should release an api like bing, and yahoo, they would have alot of developers use it, but they happy making the UI nice Feb 07 01:43:08 damn....I wisht the runTextIndexer thing worked......it has some really odd behavior, though I am probably using it beyond what it was intended for Feb 07 01:43:49 it strangely always skips the first url in blocks of text and sometimes screws up existing urls in anchors Feb 07 01:44:43 dirty martini is going down smooth Feb 07 01:44:46 guess I'll have to cook up my own regex to do it Feb 07 01:44:54 LoneStar99: don't they always? Feb 07 01:46:48 yeah forsure Feb 07 01:47:46 jfelectron: when u releasing your app? i will but it forsure Feb 07 01:47:51 buy Feb 07 01:48:08 hopefully in the next couple weeks..but it will take time to review I'm sure Feb 07 01:48:31 I've been slowly migrating code from my sandbox version into the production multi-stage one Feb 07 01:50:13 this is just a labor or love....only like 5 ppl are going to buy it :/ Feb 07 01:51:55 I'm a grad student.....so I have limited time to work on it Feb 07 01:52:15 jfelectron: what does it do? Feb 07 01:52:32 its a fully feature LiveJournal client Feb 07 01:52:42 ah, I remember livejournal Feb 07 01:52:44 cool Feb 07 01:54:17 that will be cool Feb 07 01:54:38 we'll see....I think its pretty sweet. Through a combination of their horrible API and some painful screen scraping, I have almost all the features of the website Feb 07 01:59:45 where u going 2 grad school? Feb 07 01:59:52 Berkeley Feb 07 02:00:04 wow nice, Feb 07 02:00:29 thinking of going back to cali soon, but north this time, 2 napa Feb 07 02:01:00 want to learn the whole wine thing Feb 07 02:01:17 I saw you discussion about CA a few days ago......its nice. I'm from way northern CA....humboldt county Feb 07 02:01:52 that's where all the weed is Feb 07 02:01:53 damn, where is that? drove from san diego to seattle some years back Feb 07 02:02:14 sugardave: yup.....weed, fresh air and redwoods Feb 07 02:02:38 LoneStar99: its about 4-5 hours North of San Francisco Feb 07 02:02:43 nice, don;t smoke myself, i get to paranoid Feb 07 02:03:00 I like CA to visit, but damn I don't think I could ever afford to live there Feb 07 02:03:00 by sacramento? Feb 07 02:03:13 I don't smoke either.....but its an industry in Humboldt Feb 07 02:03:37 sugardave: it is not that bad, but you never save money\ Feb 07 02:03:51 sugardave: tell me about it....home ownership is nearly unattainable in most of the desirable places to live Feb 07 02:03:55 when national reform comes, going to seriously think of moving out there :D Feb 07 02:04:03 unless you are a wealthy businessman, actor, or crook Feb 07 02:04:48 SF Bay Area just gets larger and larger as people are willing to drive further and further from their jobs to house they can afford Feb 07 02:05:32 jfelectron: yeah, the last few times I was in CA was SF area....crazy real estate there Feb 07 02:05:50 da most valuable land in cali is a prison in the bay Feb 07 02:06:07 LoneStar99: lol....yeah, well its a park Feb 07 02:06:12 can't remember the name, worth billions of dollars Feb 07 02:06:24 not alcataz Feb 07 02:06:26 some of the islands near it are privately owned though Feb 07 02:06:35 an active prison Feb 07 02:06:36 heard a news story about a couple who just bought a home (about 2 years ago) in SF for $700K....but, they failed to have a thorough inspection and the house had to be demolished Feb 07 02:06:45 livenworth... Feb 07 02:06:56 I think Leavenworth is in KS Feb 07 02:07:01 oh lol Feb 07 02:07:03 sugardave: yep Feb 07 02:07:27 LoneStar99: The big prison here is San Quentin....think Johnny Cash Feb 07 02:08:03 yeah' Feb 07 02:08:15 love johnny cash, Feb 07 02:08:36 that is probably unbelievably valuable land....its right on the bay...the adjoining towns all have million dolllar plus homes Feb 07 02:08:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SanQuentinSP.jpg Feb 07 02:08:54 re JC....yeah so do I Feb 07 02:08:54 that land is worth billions Feb 07 02:09:24 and the state would sell it to private investors, but it will cost billions to build a new prison Feb 07 02:09:26 jfelectron: are you guys gonna re-elect the Governator? Feb 07 02:09:38 i voted for him once Feb 07 02:09:42 the first time Feb 07 02:09:45 there are term limits...he's done Feb 07 02:09:48 ah Feb 07 02:09:55 we don't have such pesky things in TX Feb 07 02:09:57 wish we did Feb 07 02:10:01 cali is $540billion in debt Feb 07 02:10:01 Rick Perry's got to go Feb 07 02:10:03 I'd put money on Meg Whitman (of Ebay) Feb 07 02:10:09 oh that's right Feb 07 02:10:16 her and the former head of HP Feb 07 02:10:20 i thought rick perry was good... Feb 07 02:10:25 no, he sucks Feb 07 02:10:25 oh you guys are both in Tejas? Feb 07 02:10:39 yeah, Feb 07 02:10:44 he's also a murder and conspirator to cover-up murder Feb 07 02:10:51 merderer Feb 07 02:10:57 goddammit Feb 07 02:10:59 murderer Feb 07 02:11:01 CA is a horrible state to be governor of Feb 07 02:11:24 love southern cali Feb 07 02:11:35 great state to live in....just not govern ) Feb 07 02:12:16 OK...I have to get back to debugging...see you guys later Feb 07 02:12:29 see ya Feb 07 02:13:06 ok laters Feb 07 02:13:08 good luck Feb 07 02:13:25 i voted for ron paul, in the general election Feb 07 02:13:45 randomly you would see ron paul signs in san diego Feb 07 02:14:06 I voted straight Libertarian in the last 5 elections here, and if no Libertarian candidate, I voted against the incumbent Feb 07 02:15:59 till this day do not watch fox news, they blocked alot of ron paul coverage Feb 07 02:16:20 but then again, what does the media not block Feb 07 02:16:29 we don't know :D Feb 07 02:18:40 sugardave: got a great review from some lad. "this app is just search, the app catalog search is better, waste of a dollar" Feb 07 02:19:06 lol, but i guess iFarted is such a great investment... Feb 07 02:19:58 no offense to the fart developers, if it sells why not Feb 07 02:20:30 "Complete waist of time and my money. Infact I'd pay 1.99 to have never seen or wasted my time with this app. I'm actually a less smarter person now for having played with this app and I give it a -5 stars. Sooo there is my opinion. What about my money and time waisted? Can the palm pre give me that back?" Feb 07 02:20:42 that's for my first app, one of my favorite reviews Feb 07 02:21:33 nice Feb 07 02:21:48 not sure what to make it, but 5 stars awesome Feb 07 02:21:58 no, he gave it 1 :D Feb 07 02:22:25 some folks are just lost Feb 07 02:22:26 it's a logic game, it was before I put the warning about needing to think logically to play it Feb 07 02:22:31 heh Feb 07 02:22:37 lol Feb 07 02:23:57 you need to ask 3 questions: 1.) do you know what postal code means? 2.) do you know what britney spears did yesterday? 3.) is your favorite site facebook? Feb 07 02:24:19 if the answers are N Y Y - the app self distructs Feb 07 02:24:30 haha Feb 07 02:26:11 seriously, webos rules, just wished got more media hype Feb 07 02:26:32 we need more NYY people to know about how awesome it is Feb 07 02:30:09 LoneStar99, do you get bonus points for YYY ? Feb 07 02:30:26 i guess Feb 07 02:30:30 why not Feb 07 02:32:25 some folks live the life of a commercial, "the geek squad" are killer will pay them $70 an hour to fix my computer, total damage: $500 bucks for virus and ram installation, Feb 07 02:33:02 sorry virus software installation Feb 07 02:36:05 watching cheetah girls with my little sister Feb 07 02:42:51 LoneStar99: do you live with your parents Feb 07 02:43:46 do I need to include an OS license in my app? Feb 07 02:44:16 does your app require an OS? Feb 07 02:44:26 open source Feb 07 02:44:56 lol, for now living at my dads house, until it is time to go back to cali Feb 07 02:44:58 lol ohhhh Feb 07 02:47:04 haeffb: probably...check palm's github and see where they put their OSS licenses Feb 07 02:47:29 i am 34, lived in san diego for 7 years and only came home once a year for max 2 weeks, missed out alot in life, especially my sisters life, my parents are not getting any younger, so this is catch up time Feb 07 02:48:29 i have it now, in a hidden div in the help scene. tap on the copyright info and it shows/hides the license text. Feb 07 02:49:00 very nice haeffb Feb 07 02:49:24 LoneStar99: wasn't criticizing....no worries Feb 07 02:49:30 oh...IN the app...I get it. I don't think you have to do that Feb 07 02:49:39 just include the license with the source Feb 07 02:49:52 but I really don't know Feb 07 02:49:52 i know, just have the talking bug, Feb 07 02:50:06 smiles...kk Feb 07 02:50:17 haeffb: make it like an easter egg.... Feb 07 02:50:54 yeah. anyone who taps on the copyright gets to use the source for free. anyone else...loser! Feb 07 02:51:04 lol Feb 07 02:51:17 ur great... Feb 07 02:51:34 LoneStar99: phew....the Colorpick wasn't working in multi-stage app....thought it was toast, but I rescused it Feb 07 02:51:44 rescused Feb 07 02:52:50 jfelectron: did you get the launch thing resolved? Feb 07 02:53:08 haeffb: you could have an about screen that briefly mentions projects and their respective licenses Feb 07 02:53:31 haeffb: tackling that next....this multistage stuff excercises all the demons in your code :/ Feb 07 02:53:38 jfelectron: which license should I be using...? Feb 07 02:54:08 going open source to avoid Palms' charges. Don't really care who/how uses my code. MIT ok? Feb 07 02:54:10 or GPL? Feb 07 02:54:15 depends on what you want people to be able to do with it. MIT is very open and permissive. GPL ensures derivations will always be FOSS Feb 07 02:55:34 so, with MIT, someone else can take my app, slap a different name on it and resell it. But with GPL, they can slap a different name on it, but can only give it away. Feb 07 02:55:59 demon exercising is my specialty. Feb 07 02:56:14 so the colorpicker is working now? Feb 07 02:56:48 sorry not strictly FOSS just OSS.......GPL is often deemed incompatible with commercial code, because you have to expose ALL the code Feb 07 02:57:50 LoneStar99: yeah, had to get rid of the use of $() and also switch the direct element listeners (ie. onmousedown in the HTML) to controller.listen ones Feb 07 02:59:14 haeffb: MIT doesn't necessitate anything with regards to downstream licensing....just indemnifies you Feb 07 02:59:41 but I don't know if MIT license has been put to the test in court...anyone?? Feb 07 02:59:53 * sugardave is an OSS virgin. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 07 02:59:58 2010