**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 10 02:59:57 2010
May 10 03:19:43 <JenP> rwhitby: ping
May 10 03:20:10 <rwhitby> JenP: hey
May 10 03:20:18 <JenP> hi rod!
May 10 03:20:32 <JenP> I have a question regarding the webos wiki's main page
May 10 03:20:53 <rwhitby> yep
May 10 03:21:03 <JenP> did you get that template somewhere or created it?
May 10 03:21:18 <rwhitby> Templarian and Rick_work did all the work on that I think
May 10 03:21:56 <JenP> ah kk, i'll ask them when I see them. thanks
May 10 03:22:20 <Templarian> I did the home place with tons of crits from rick.
May 10 03:22:31 * Templarian can't type tonight.
May 10 03:22:35 <JenP> smiles....
May 10 03:22:42 <JenP> LOL i understood
May 10 03:24:26 <Templarian> JenP: I copied a lot of the colours and other things from wikipedia though.
May 10 03:25:06 <JenP> oh? Thanks Templarian I'll check it out too
May 10 03:49:30 <oil> Templarian: main page is broken
May 10 03:50:05 <Templarian> oil: lies.
May 10 03:50:29 <oil> where it says preware and has the icon at the top
May 10 03:50:35 <oil> the icon links to the SDK page for no reason
May 10 03:50:45 <oil> where the text goes to the preware page
May 10 03:51:10 <Templarian> That was someone else not me hehe.
May 10 03:51:19 <oil> doesnt mean its not broken
May 10 03:53:29 <Templarian> oil: fixed. :P
May 10 03:53:40 <oil> good job
May 10 03:55:04 <Roy-Pre101> Bah, still wondering why my stupid vertical-snap scroller isn't working right.
May 10 03:55:17 <oil> :/
May 10 03:56:20 <Roy-Pre101> Anyone have a scrim with spinner example?
May 10 04:08:07 <Roy-Pre101> Well, looks pretty simple according to this page:  http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6598&p=27647&hilit=scrim#p27647
May 10 04:13:07 <Roy-Pre101> Quick question:  Should scrims be listed on webos101.com under Scrim or Scrims?
May 10 04:13:45 <Roy-Pre101> Going with scrims
May 10 04:14:00 <oil> can't you make one link to the other so you can use both?
May 10 04:18:11 <Roy-Pre101> Well, I could but I think search will find Scrims if you type Scrim
May 10 04:18:24 <Roy-Pre101> Not so sure about the other way.
May 10 04:26:03 <Roy-Pre101> I forgot how to do references. ;P
May 10 04:33:35 <Roy-Pre101> http://webos101.com/Scrims
May 10 05:43:40 <ron_frown> oi oi oi
May 10 05:43:44 <ron_frown> any news in the webos world?
May 10 05:43:47 <ron_frown> any new software yet?
May 10 06:23:39 <Roy-Pre101> Wow, I just learned that the CSS rule !important doesn't mean -not- important but rather the opposite.  WTF couldn't they call the rule important!
May 10 06:25:28 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: so, you should have lots of fodder for this wednesday's roundup.  preware 1.0, govnah, uberkernel, ....
May 10 06:27:08 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: It'll be an internals-a-palooza.
May 10 06:27:18 <Roy-Pre101> Or some such.
May 10 06:27:31 <Roy-Pre101> What's the latest on govnah?
May 10 06:28:09 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: oil was working on profiles this weekend, so we can hook it up to Mode Switcher
May 10 06:29:09 <oil> yeah, that
May 10 06:29:10 <oil> lol
May 10 06:29:31 <oil> whats there somewhat works, but its not pretty enough for release
May 10 06:29:33 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: if it's an internals-a-palooza, don't forget www.facebook.com/webosinternals ;)
May 10 06:30:21 * rwhitby takes a look at govnah git
May 10 06:30:28 <Roy-Pre101> @whee:  phone rebooted itself, didn't likeme accidently turning it off and back on.
May 10 06:30:50 <oil> and i still need to put in a way for us to include a default list
May 10 06:30:59 <Roy-Pre101> Dropped $25 in your kitty.
May 10 06:32:43 <Roy-Pre101> Why didn't you set up the facebook page as an entity instead of a person?
May 10 06:33:10 <Roy-Pre101> I guess you set up the others as entities.
May 10 06:33:22 <Roy-Pre101> That's fair enough, I guess.
May 10 06:33:36 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: www.facebook.com/webosinternals.org
May 10 06:33:54 <rwhitby> I set up both :)
May 10 06:33:57 <Roy-Pre101> Mmm
May 10 06:34:00 <oil> rwhitby: http://i40.tinypic.com/k3t2sz.png http://i42.tinypic.com/2ufudfq.png http://i44.tinypic.com/25qch7d.png
May 10 06:34:00 <Roy-Pre101> Too confusing.
May 10 06:34:07 <Roy-Pre101> I'll like everything just to be sure.
May 10 06:35:00 <oil> but like i said, its only functional now, not pretty :)
May 10 06:35:52 <Roy-Pre101> Anyone done anything with processing.js?
May 10 06:36:04 <oil> i would have liked to have had the profile saving with a dialog, but dialogs are fugly in palm-dark
May 10 06:37:00 <ron_frown> uhmm
May 10 06:37:06 <ron_frown> an new webos os out?
May 10 06:37:12 <ron_frown> or is it that still 2.4.whatever
May 10 06:37:18 <oil> 1.4.1.1
May 10 06:37:24 <ron_frown> same ol shit
May 10 06:37:26 <ron_frown> bah
May 10 06:37:48 <oil> trollin' #webos?
May 10 06:42:07 <ron_frown> always
May 10 06:42:13 <ron_frown> waiting for progress
May 10 06:42:16 <ron_frown> so much broken shit
May 10 06:42:19 <ron_frown> no fixes
May 10 06:42:48 <ron_frown> when I got connections to people at palm, who for sdk support point me to a post *I* wrote on the damn forums because its the best answer they have
May 10 06:42:50 <ron_frown> thats bad
May 10 06:44:22 <Roy-Pre101> heh
May 10 06:44:41 <Roy-Pre101> I expect big things coming soon, just not yet.
May 10 06:44:49 <Roy-Pre101> I also expect bugfixes to be a big priority.
May 10 07:47:32 <swisstomcat> morning
May 10 08:59:57 <warpdesign_> hi there
May 10 09:00:11 <swisstomcat> hi
May 10 11:47:37 <swisstomcat> rehi
May 10 11:54:20 <haeffb> morning
May 10 11:55:42 <swisstomcat> hey haeffb
May 10 13:13:29 <jbjoerk> Anyone used a FilterList with a palm-page-header? I'm setting .filter-field-container-height to get the correct height of the filterfield, but of some reason my list never moves, and renders the first item underneath the filterfield. Ideas?
May 10 14:38:39 <Roy-Pre101> jbjoerk: Did you remember to include a palm-header-spacer?
May 10 14:42:28 <rkcr> Is there a way on Palm to load a static database on install?  There's a database of information I want present when the app runs.
May 10 14:49:45 <Roy-Pre101> rkcr: Load it via ajax, either locally or over the web.
May 10 14:50:43 <rkcr> I'd prefer locally so there isn't a heavy startup time, but that would create two copies, no?
May 10 14:51:05 <rkcr> I was hoping there is some way of linking to a db file in the compiled code.
May 10 14:51:49 <Roy-Pre101> rkcr: You are correct.
May 10 14:51:53 <Roy-Pre101> There is not.
May 10 14:52:33 <rkcr> Sigh, why does every mobile platform not have this use case taken into account.  :/
May 10 14:54:05 <Roy-Pre101> believe me, people have been beating on Palm about this since the early SDK.
May 10 14:54:27 <rkcr> It's the same way on Android too, I think so on iPhone as well.
May 10 14:54:56 <rkcr> On Android there's a way to just hack your db file in by just a simply copy though, you don't have to explicitly load the file.  Is that possible on Palm?
May 10 14:55:14 <rkcr> Err, that is to say, you just create an SQLite db that you copy into the correct spot to use.
May 10 14:55:23 <rkcr> Instead of open --> insert the entire db.
May 10 14:59:52 <swisstomcat> bbl
May 10 15:03:20 <rkcr> Well, if I'm going to do it locally...  is there a way to use gzip/gunzip on Palm so I can reduce the file size?
May 10 15:13:57 <LoneStar99> morning - afternoon all
May 10 15:29:48 <rkcr> This is a simple question but...  how do you include a file to be opened?  (I'm trying the "load a db locally" solution right now.)
May 10 15:30:02 <rkcr> (And once you include the file, how do you then open/parse it - it's json).
May 10 15:34:02 <warpdesign_> anyone ever used audio html5 tag ?
May 10 15:34:09 <warpdesign_> I have some lag on the emulator
May 10 15:34:13 <warpdesign_> around 1sec
May 10 16:15:23 <Roy-Pre101> warpdesign: Lag with sound is expected.
May 10 16:16:15 <Roy-Pre101> rkcr: Search the pdn forum but you just include the path in the ajax request and it comes in as a json object.  You -might- have to set the forceJSON option (might not be its real name)
May 10 16:17:55 <rkcr> Roy-Pre101: What is the path of a local file?
May 10 16:18:19 <rkcr> Just the path you reference the files normally, like "/app/assistants/x-assitant.js"?
May 10 16:20:34 <Roy-Pre101> hang on a sec...
May 10 16:21:13 <Roy-Pre101> Mojo.appPath+"/your_path/your_file",
May 10 16:21:32 <rkcr> Cool, thanks./
May 10 16:24:52 <rkcr> Works great, thank you very much.  :)
May 10 17:18:51 <warpdesign> Roy-Pre101: why is that ?
May 10 17:18:58 <warpdesign> is there a workaround for it ?
May 10 17:19:03 <warpdesign> it's around 1sec lag here
May 10 17:19:25 <warpdesign> on the emulator at least
May 10 17:19:59 <Roy-Pre101> warpdesign: There are a -lot- of posts on the pdn forum about sound lag. You might want to read some of them.
May 10 17:23:52 <warpdesign> hmm.. weird.. I searched for "sound" yesterday, but didn't get any result..
May 10 17:24:06 <warpdesign> anyway.. would using other methods fix the lag problem ?
May 10 17:24:29 <warpdesign> I can definitely forget about sound if there's that ~.7/1sec lag..
May 10 17:24:30 <warpdesign> :(
May 10 17:37:49 <Nyceane> warpdesign, what is your app?
May 10 17:38:02 <warpdesign> small game, with very small sounds
May 10 17:38:09 <warpdesign> solitaire like
May 10 17:38:12 <Nyceane> oh
May 10 17:38:16 <Nyceane> do you have it up?
May 10 17:38:27 <warpdesign> if you click on a card and sound is played 1sec later it's not usable..
May 10 17:38:51 <warpdesign> I have a web-only version online
May 10 17:39:37 <Roy-Pre101> warpdesign: Yeah, sounds that are supposed to trigger on user interaction may be bad.
May 10 17:40:00 <warpdesign> Roy-Pre101: yes.. I thought this was because of the emulator
May 10 17:40:08 <warpdesign> but it seems it has nothing to do with that
May 10 18:05:32 <warpdesign> hmmm.. is loop attribute supposed to be working ?
May 10 18:06:01 <rolsworth> i really like webos but damn android is dominating
May 10 18:06:14 <rolsworth> already overtook iphone os
May 10 18:06:46 <rolsworth> i doubt developers make any money from the android market though
May 10 18:09:21 <warpdesign> overtook iphone os ? come on :)
May 10 18:17:37 <Nyceane> app catalog havn't been reviewing apps since 5/7
May 10 18:17:38 <Nyceane> =-|
May 10 18:18:41 <Roy-Pre101> warpdesign: No, don't think loop works currently.
May 10 18:18:51 <warpdesign> ok
May 10 18:18:52 <Roy-Pre101> I am expecting an overhaul of the audio interface soon.
May 10 18:19:05 <warpdesign> well, I hope so :)
May 10 18:19:11 <warpdesign> it's not working in FF either
May 10 18:19:14 <Roy-Pre101> I am not positive of that with the newer html5 audio method.
May 10 18:19:18 <warpdesign> but it seems to work in Opera at least
May 10 18:22:18 <warpdesign> seems like ended proposed isn't set either...
May 10 18:22:19 <warpdesign> sigh...
May 10 18:22:26 <warpdesign> property, not proposed
May 10 18:29:01 <rolsworth> http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3343/npd100510.png
May 10 18:29:30 <rolsworth> http://www.neowin.net/news/android-os-overtakes-iphone-os
May 10 18:30:02 <Roy-Pre101> warpdesign: There's some sort of reference implementation on github somewhere, I Think.
May 10 18:30:04 <rolsworth> android os skyrocketed in Q4 2009 because of Verizon
May 10 18:30:20 <oilsworkn> webos > andriod :)
May 10 18:30:29 <warpdesign> ok, so sound is definitely unusable in this version..
May 10 18:30:32 <warpdesign> I give up
May 10 18:30:35 <warpdesign> that's too bad
May 10 18:30:49 <warpdesign> I wasn't looking for 1ms precision... just something acceptable..
May 10 18:30:53 <warpdesign> 1sec lag sure isn't
May 10 18:31:19 <warpdesign> and it's not like i was playing 15 mp3 sounds at the same time plus moving a lot of stuff on screen...
May 10 18:34:54 <Roy-Pre101> You should be able to get much less than 1 second... but that doesn't mean you'll get instantaneous.
May 10 18:35:24 <Roy-Pre101> Still, forgo touch activated sound.  end of game sounds, etc. should be fine.
May 10 18:36:16 <warpdesign> I did some tests, I have aroud .6 > 1sec lag
May 10 18:36:18 <warpdesign> depending
May 10 18:37:07 <warpdesign> of course, ending/title song is ok
May 10 18:37:13 <warpdesign> context sounds aren't
May 10 18:37:21 <warpdesign> and a game without contextual sound is really too bad
May 10 18:41:00 <Robdor> warpdesign: Are you using the PDK or Mojo for your game?  I'm planning on digging into the SDL mixer this week to add sound to my PDK game.  I'm hoping that I don't run into any lag...
May 10 18:41:55 <warpdesign> mojo
May 10 18:51:21 <Roy-Pre101> SDL should be lag-free.
May 10 18:53:25 <jtee> when I connect my laptop to my pre it shows up on the pre as a dimmed entry - trying to copy files from laptop to pre (ubuntu on laptop)
May 10 19:01:32 <jtee> when I connect my laptop to my pre it shows up on the pre as a dimmed entry - trying to copy files from laptop to pre (ubuntu on laptop)
May 10 19:01:47 <jtee> sorry.. thought it had logged me out
May 10 19:06:32 <swisstomcat> evening
May 10 19:06:38 <catalystmedia> Does anyone here know if encrypting data (SHA1 with an open source library) sent via AJAX  is counted as encryption and does that require a CCAT when submitted an App?
May 10 19:07:11 <swisstomcat> hey catalystmedia
May 10 19:07:26 <catalystmedia> Hey swisstomcat!
May 10 19:07:37 <swisstomcat> i bought tweetme
May 10 19:09:28 * jtee goes off to install ssh server
May 10 19:11:42 <catalystmedia> swisstomcat: Sweet! How do you like it?
May 10 19:12:09 <warpdesign> query swisstomcat
May 10 19:12:13 <warpdesign> oops :)
May 10 19:12:30 <warpdesign> one day I'll send a password and forget about a / :)
May 10 19:13:18 <swisstomcat> ping warpdesign
May 10 19:13:26 <swisstomcat> catalystmedia: i like it very much
May 10 19:13:50 <rolsworth> I wish there was a way to transfer music and video to the pre wireless.
May 10 19:14:01 <catalystmedia> swisstomcat: Awesome :) I'm glad you do. An update will be out soon too.
May 10 19:14:14 <rolsworth> that little clip thing is so difficult
May 10 19:14:15 <swisstomcat> very good
May 10 19:14:32 <swisstomcat> catalystmedia: i'll get you the quote soon
May 10 19:18:51 <catalystmedia> Thanks swisstomcat I'm not sure when I can go ahead with it, so take as much time as you need :)
May 10 19:24:03 <swisstomcat> allright
May 10 20:26:17 <Roy-Pre101> catalystmedia: I wish my apps were as pretty!
May 10 20:27:15 <catalystmedia> Hey thanks Roy-Pre101! Hopefully I can get some more features out there too haha :)
May 10 20:27:33 <Roy-Pre101> That'd be good!  Constant improvement!
May 10 20:29:00 <catalystmedia> Haha yep! So what apps are yours that are in the App Catalog? I'd love to check them out :)
May 10 20:35:26 <warpdesign> is there a way to use icons used in official palm apps
May 10 20:35:41 <warpdesign> like the small clock/alarm icons shown at the bottom of the clock/alarm app
May 10 20:35:58 <warpdesign> I would like to have something coherent with other webos apps
May 10 20:36:33 <swisstomcat> my app is Moo
May 10 20:36:43 <swisstomcat> i think you can use them, warpdesign
May 10 20:36:48 <swisstomcat> the icons
May 10 20:36:53 <warpdesign> I mean: how ? :)
May 10 20:37:29 <swisstomcat> hold on
May 10 20:38:25 <swisstomcat> catalystmedia: my app is called Moo
May 10 20:38:42 <swisstomcat> warpdesign: use them in a command menu?
May 10 20:38:46 <swisstomcat> .cmd-icon-up { background-image: url(../images/menu-icon-up.png); }
May 10 20:39:01 <swisstomcat> in the stylesheet (css)
May 10 20:39:40 <warpdesign> hmm.. I'd like to have a list of options, with an icon for each item
May 10 20:42:12 <muk_mb> aloha
May 10 20:42:37 <swisstomcat> aloha
May 10 20:43:03 <swisstomcat> did you bring your ukulele?
May 10 20:43:31 <catalystmedia> swisstomcat: Nice I'll check it out right now :)
May 10 20:43:48 <muk_mb> hey, I'm trying to use Mojo.Depot to store values to be used on next-launch, but they don't seem to be saving. Is there some save function I should be calling somewhere?
May 10 20:43:54 <muk_mb> swisstomcat: sadly no, hehe
May 10 20:44:47 <swisstomcat> can you post your code, muk_mb
May 10 20:45:08 <swisstomcat> catalystmedia: great .. feedback appreciated
May 10 20:46:11 <muk_mb> swisstomcat: http://pastie.org/954384 this is where I'm adding the values to the Depot
May 10 20:46:52 <Roy-Pre101> catalystmedia: Oh, I'd love it if you could share some of your tips on webos101.com
May 10 20:47:17 <catalystmedia> Roy-Pre101: I posted some to the ImageView. I'll try to post more as I have time. What sections need help the most? :)
May 10 20:47:18 <Roy-Pre101> And, my apps are Match 'Em, Match 'Em - Xmas Edition and the palmSpot app.
May 10 20:47:18 <muk_mb> the "Wrote Key!" message shows in my log, so I'm pretty sure they're being written
May 10 20:47:31 <Roy-Pre101> catalystmedia: All of them! :)
May 10 20:47:35 <swisstomcat> hehe
May 10 20:48:41 <warpdesign> muk_mb: try using an int for your version
May 10 20:48:50 <muk_mb> ok
May 10 20:50:06 <swisstomcat> i'm off .. g'night
May 10 20:51:40 <catalystmedia> Roy-Pre101: Haha I'll see what I can do then :D
May 10 20:52:43 <muk_mb> oh hey, turns out it does work. I was just uninstalling/reinstalling between launches, so it didn't -look- like it worked
May 10 20:53:24 <Roy-Pre101> catalystmedia: Something on the css animations might be nice.  I think there may be some stuff there, though.
May 10 20:54:11 <Roy-Pre101> Maybe efficient use of resources.  Background apps.
May 10 21:00:46 <warpdesign> muk_mb: good !
May 10 21:24:45 <Nyceane> I am 1000 downloads away to get in top 200, yay!
May 10 21:26:34 <halfhalo_T400> Two down.. two and a half to go
May 10 21:33:36 <Nyceane> huh?
May 10 21:33:40 <Nyceane> =_=
May 10 21:33:48 <halfhalo_T400> Finals
May 10 21:36:23 <Nyceane> have you tried my app yet? halfhalo
May 10 21:38:41 <halfhalo_T400> Nein
May 10 21:38:50 <halfhalo_T400> Havent really touched my pre in a week
May 10 21:38:54 <Nyceane> when does http://palmhotapps.com/ get updated?
May 10 23:47:35 <Roy-Pre101> Updated/added in webos101.com : Appinfo.json, Scrims, Connection MAnager, Scroller, Alarms, FilterList.
May 10 23:47:51 <Roy-Pre101> Still needed:  Lots of widgets, services and APIs
May 11 00:18:13 <rwhitby> Homebrew Hot Apps: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2444835
May 11 00:22:54 <Tibfib> rwhitby: nice idea
May 11 00:33:53 <Templarian> Fun fact since getting added to the Third Party tools list for webOS development I've had 50 more downloads.
May 11 00:57:18 <Nyceane> wow, they raised 1000 bucks
May 11 01:24:08 <BigBiff_> evening all
May 11 01:24:40 <BigBiff_> haeffb: i havent forgotten to email you my stuff - i hope the invite's still there
May 11 01:24:52 <BigBiff_> been a hectic weekend
May 11 01:25:44 <BigBiff_> i'm gonna tweak a few things, then it's on it's way, but it may be a few more days - end of the school year stuff has me away from coding
May 11 01:53:48 <haeffb> BigBiff_: anytime
May 11 02:00:34 <JenP> hi all
May 11 02:42:07 <Roy-Pre101> JenP: howdy.
May 11 02:53:23 <LoneStar99> good evening all!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 11 02:59:56 2010