**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 31 02:59:57 2010 Jul 31 03:00:57 Anybody know when @font-face will be supported? Jul 31 03:05:02 Does text-shadow not work in webos? Jul 31 03:05:08 no Jul 31 03:05:37 Why on earth not? Jul 31 03:05:49 because it doesnt Jul 31 03:05:52 cause they ahvent fully implemented canvas yet Jul 31 03:06:02 or css Jul 31 03:06:25 But that is a pretty basic css rule Jul 31 03:06:35 I guess I'm supposed to tell you "they're working on it" Jul 31 03:10:43 man I hate putting the pre in USB mass storage mode Jul 31 03:10:50 why? Jul 31 03:10:56 I feel like I'm gonna get that critical emergency call during the transfer Jul 31 03:11:02 so I miss the call and half of my family dies Jul 31 03:11:02 lol! Jul 31 03:11:07 and it ends up being my fault Jul 31 03:11:20 does iphone do the same thing for media sync Jul 31 03:42:45 Anivrom: about the only thing it looks like you can do is to keep track of what index/element the list was scrolled to when you swap it out, and then when you swap back to that list, scroll the scroller to that index/element Jul 31 03:42:49 messy Jul 31 03:42:58 gay Jul 31 03:43:01 such a hack Jul 31 03:43:19 because I'm just about to call the 2 scroller trick impossible Jul 31 03:43:27 I was gonna have 3 Jul 31 03:43:36 4* Jul 31 03:44:46 Also another problem sugardave, dont know if you found this out yet but, if you have one list that's 40 items, and you switch to another list in the scroller with 3 times, you will be able to scroll down as far as the 40 list goes, in the 3 list, since the scroller autosizes tot eh biggest widget height Jul 31 03:45:17 which is more inconvenient than a bug necessarily Jul 31 03:46:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j8EiWIVZs FRIGGIN CLASSIC WOW Jul 31 03:47:09 yo Jul 31 03:47:29 mmmyessszzzz Jul 31 03:47:52 which http://twitpic.com/2a7tne Jul 31 03:47:56 torchie: use rsync over ssh to transfer files instead - doesn't stop emergency calls getting through Jul 31 03:48:08 i need an iconifiable logo Jul 31 03:48:11 i Jul 31 03:48:12 pickles Jul 31 03:48:19 dassa good plan Jul 31 03:48:24 bottom right is nice Jul 31 03:48:49 the dreamcast spiral isnt quite there yet but it has potential, maybe lean more towards ubisoft styling Jul 31 03:48:57 spdsktr: patch accepted, but not gitorious.org is having problems :( Jul 31 03:49:49 dreamcast spiral is a pita Jul 31 03:50:28 I know Jul 31 03:50:45 Maybe my wife can make you a spiral logo. she's an illustrator master Jul 31 03:50:52 rwhitby: thank you sir Jul 31 03:50:55 thats what i had to make it in Jul 31 03:51:05 did google update google image search? Jul 31 03:51:11 cause its damn spiffy Jul 31 03:51:15 spdsktr: I created a new "Navigation" category Jul 31 03:51:32 rwhitby: I noticed that :) Updated my post already Jul 31 03:51:59 im really digging the sidebar instead of a header frame Jul 31 03:52:07 spdsktr: dunno when gitorious.org will be back up, so no ETA on when it gets to Preware. I need to notice gitorious.org is up and then push it Jul 31 03:52:12 plus the lightbox preview of the image over the website its on is really killer too Jul 31 03:53:24 that chomper guy did a port of hereos2 for webos Jul 31 03:53:32 rwhitby: cool, will wait til morning Jul 31 03:53:33 i havent installed the ipk, but i poked around in it Jul 31 03:54:26 or whenever... Jul 31 03:54:28 google image search is awesome now ;D Jul 31 03:55:03 Yea it's really chagned Jul 31 04:01:45 anyone else have an opinion? http://twitpic.com/2a7tne Jul 31 04:07:22 my wife likes the smiley face. Jul 31 04:07:33 and the spiral "looks pretty cool too" Jul 31 04:07:37 dawm: ^ Jul 31 04:08:14 heh thanks, now its a 3 way tie Jul 31 04:08:27 spdsktr you still hanging in there? Jul 31 04:08:28 but my wifes opinion doesn't matter :P Jul 31 04:08:49 JK! Jul 31 04:11:12 http://www.onextrapixel.com/2010/06/09/40-examples-of-nicely-illustrated-logo-designs/ Jul 31 04:11:19 a bunch of clever logos in that group Jul 31 04:11:38 Yea I have a book of logos Jul 31 04:11:43 Comes in handy Jul 31 04:29:56 dawn: you still collecting opinions? Jul 31 04:30:45 dawm: top --> right & bottom --> left Jul 31 04:30:58 center b and smiley? Jul 31 04:31:09 * Tibfib thinks you should go with the purple and blue ones Jul 31 04:31:12 yeah Jul 31 04:31:28 heh, improveverywhere always makes me smile Jul 31 04:31:29 is it like a blog or twitter app? Jul 31 04:31:58 logo for the business Jul 31 04:32:15 i hate not having an iconable logo Jul 31 04:32:38 its for biocandy labs (why did i pick a name so hard to make a logo for.. i do not know) Jul 31 04:34:01 very nice logos Jul 31 04:34:33 think of them as 'techie lolipops' Jul 31 04:34:47 best explaination i can come up with Jul 31 04:38:41 smily face kinda reminds me of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sabritas_logo.jpeg Jul 31 04:39:37 i think the smile and the thick border Jul 31 04:40:09 sabritas --> great crisps btw Jul 31 05:55:39 Hi, hi! Jul 31 06:05:23 why doesn't x-mojo-tap-highlight work on my button? Jul 31 06:05:58 the documentation clearly states that x-mojo-tap-highlight="momentary" will apply the class name "selected" to that div Jul 31 06:06:08 and I have a css style for the selected button Jul 31 06:06:14 yet it does not apply it Jul 31 06:06:24 consternation Jul 31 06:06:48 um I think the keyword and also the answer to your problem is "documentation" Jul 31 06:08:39 goodnight folks Jul 31 06:08:41 it's like kryptonite I guess...it might kill us to be near such powerful stuff Jul 31 06:16:16 x-mojo-tap-highlight may only work on palm-row divs -- check the CSS Jul 31 06:23:06 howdy folks Jul 31 06:26:35 Hi, hi. Jul 31 06:28:58 hello DougReeder Jul 31 09:17:29 Good morning Jul 31 10:03:12 hello! Jul 31 10:12:19 Hi guys! I'd like to call a method located in my scene assistant by clicking on a menu entry... how do I manage to get the current assistant? Jul 31 10:16:54 I've got a method called 'deleteAllRoutes' in my "ManageRoutes" scene assistant. When I set it up, I'm adding a new menu entry called deleteAllRoutes. In the stage assistant, I've got my case Mojo.Event.command and I'm doing this: case "deleteAllRoutes": Mojo.Controller.StageController.activeScene().deleteAllRoutes(); Jul 31 10:17:01 But this doesn't work Jul 31 10:17:14 Do you have any clue on how to make it work? Jul 31 10:19:51 Or maybe a hint or two? Jul 31 11:56:33 Good morning! Jul 31 12:13:24 Good Morning Jul 31 12:14:36 hi guys .. how can i knwon when wifi/network is lost ... any event present? Jul 31 12:17:51 hmmm...not sure. You can check to see if it's present. Jul 31 12:24:44 when i open browser app, it promtly gives me alert msg ... how it can identify? Jul 31 12:26:49 something like this: http://webos.pastebin.com/whG87x7D Jul 31 12:38:29 ooh .. can i have global event handler where it checks this regularly? Jul 31 12:41:45 whoooohooooo Jul 31 12:45:08 everyone sleeping? Jul 31 12:48:42 raghuk: how often do you need to check? Jul 31 12:49:16 whenever i make a ajax call ? Jul 31 12:49:47 Just use that code to call the ajax request function Jul 31 12:50:01 Where I have launchsync(); Jul 31 12:51:01 and add an else {....fail gracefully if no wifi....} Jul 31 12:51:30 hmmm ... is this checks onlly wifi or GPRS as well? Jul 31 12:53:04 i mean any means of communicating to www ... Jul 31 12:53:45 you can check both. This checks first to see if there's an internet connection is available. Then checks to see if my user has turned off the "Sync only on Wifi" option OR if a wifi connection is present. Jul 31 12:56:16 i have understood your code .. what is "MyAPP.prefs.syncWifiOnly"? Jul 31 12:56:20 getstatus from the connection manager has a subscribe option, so it will fire the onsuccess when it changes Jul 31 12:57:07 a property of my global preferences object. User preference to sync only if wifi connection is present. Jul 31 12:57:30 well, there you go...what spdsktr said. Jul 31 12:57:30 ooh .. ok ..go it Jul 31 12:58:01 raghuk: here's the docs: https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1548&Itemid=269 Jul 31 12:59:57 thanks guys ... subscribe option is what i was looking for ... Jul 31 13:00:07 very handy, you can alert them when things become unavailable (like wifi) or special circumstances (like 1x data mode) Jul 31 13:00:14 used it quite a bit in my time Jul 31 13:00:31 "back in the day"... ? Jul 31 13:00:50 yeah, back in the days of my old app :) Jul 31 13:01:28 so i can be sure that whenever status changes it calls by callback function ? Jul 31 13:01:37 correct Jul 31 13:01:56 great Jul 31 13:02:14 I use it to change some global values that I can use on any scene, then you can also put in code to change the UI (like unhide a div with a notice) Jul 31 13:04:15 MyAPP.connectionStatus.wifiAvailable = true; Jul 31 13:04:20 I like it. Jul 31 13:13:34 hmmm ... that sounds cool ... Jul 31 13:58:02 hi guys .. on device .. how to check logs of an app? Jul 31 13:58:22 palm-log -d usb -f com.my.app Jul 31 13:58:36 only .errors are shown by default Jul 31 13:58:43 you can change the device log level with Jul 31 13:58:59 palm-log -d usb --system-log-level info Jul 31 14:02:23 i have logged into device ... then "log com.my.app" works? Jul 31 14:05:35 not sure what you mean... Jul 31 14:06:47 what should be the logLevel? Jul 31 14:26:47 depends on what you're logging. Jul 31 14:27:11 Mojo.Log.info(), Mojo.Log.warning(), Mojo.Log.error() Jul 31 14:28:00 oops. Mojo.Log.warn() Jul 31 14:28:09 https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1864&Itemid=253 Jul 31 14:28:32 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1805&Itemid=63 Jul 31 14:29:15 that helps Jul 31 15:01:09 Hi Jul 31 15:01:52 Anyone here? Jul 31 15:09:13 hello Kendy Jul 31 15:10:15 hey hi.. if a app is available for download in palm app catalog,, does that mean it has been approved by palm?? Jul 31 15:11:39 yes Jul 31 15:12:38 what are the things do for approving the app?? parameters? Jul 31 15:12:39 rohit2: yes sir Jul 31 15:13:45 ok.. so what all parameters they take into consideration or what are the steps they take before approving? Jul 31 15:13:54 rohit2: check out developer.palm.com Jul 31 15:14:29 rohit2: there is a page that points out guidelines - trying to find it Jul 31 15:14:30 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1842&Itemid=322 Jul 31 15:14:45 ok,, Jul 31 15:15:13 http://uoid.me/submit1 Jul 31 15:16:19 thank u Jul 31 15:18:13 new webos101 article on Depot for App Prefs: http://www.webos101.com/Depot_for_App_Preferences Jul 31 15:18:20 what y'all think? Jul 31 15:19:13 haeffb: need me to proof read it? Jul 31 15:19:24 please! Jul 31 15:19:41 "On the ohter hand" Jul 31 15:21:09 haeffb: what is an example of using depot instead of cookies... i am a cookie dude Jul 31 15:21:41 if cookies > 4k, you Jul 31 15:21:46 are in troubel Jul 31 15:21:58 I'm confused, I see references online to webOS 1.4.5 being released for sprint on 5-July, but my wife's pre (and Palm's website) say that 1.4.1.1 is the current release. Jul 31 15:22:23 Did it get pulled, or was 1.4.5 not released (yet)? Jul 31 15:22:41 haeffb: so depot are better for long as text and possibly images? Jul 31 15:23:11 not released yet Jul 31 15:23:24 depot stores javascript objects Jul 31 15:23:33 haeffb: thanks. I was thinking that I was going crazy Jul 31 15:24:04 nt4cats: just because it wan't released doens't mean you're not going crazy... Jul 31 15:24:16 haeffb: point taken ;) Jul 31 15:24:44 haeffb: like json? Jul 31 15:26:00 yes, like JSON Jul 31 15:32:49 Roy-Pre101: ping Jul 31 15:34:10 haeffb: ping Jul 31 15:34:37 hey, can I use the wOSr top pick logo on my site? Jul 31 15:35:03 I believe so. Jul 31 15:35:29 It's what we were hoping people would do. You can have it link to the review. Jul 31 15:36:12 I have a link already, just not the logo: http://tigercountrysoftware.com/done/ Jul 31 15:36:27 although the link doesn't give the full article for some reason. Jul 31 15:37:25 haeffb: good tutorial Jul 31 15:38:47 son of a b***h. Done! is in the Featured Apps app. Jul 31 15:39:06 Why doesn't Palm tell us when they're doing this stuff!!!!!?????!!!!! Jul 31 15:40:26 haeffb: awesome Jul 31 15:40:28 ! Jul 31 15:41:02 yes, it's awesome, but I'd REALLY like to know about it beforehand. Jul 31 15:41:34 especially since it's sorta...broken...at the moment. Jul 31 15:42:34 Hey guys. My CDMA VZW Pre+ just stopped having any connectivity via cell radio; the signal is there, the network name is there, but no 1X/EV icon. Doctor didn't help. Any ideas? Jul 31 15:43:06 haeffb: it is great, but if kinda broken =( Jul 31 15:43:31 I submitted a fix on Thurs, but not published yet :( Jul 31 15:47:19 haeffb: have not submitted a new app in months - but hopefully today or tommorrow that will change Jul 31 15:48:15 just alot of work "sql, php, javascript, webos" Jul 31 15:48:31 css, html, etc... Jul 31 15:52:07 man Jul 31 15:52:11 corporations are jacked up Jul 31 15:53:24 LoneStar99: sweet Jul 31 15:53:31 they use the 14th amendment to justify releasing governmental leashes on them Jul 31 15:54:33 Roy-Pre101: can you investigate why the whole review doesn't show up? http://www.webosroundup.com/2010/06/app-review-done-for-webos/ Jul 31 16:17:07 good morning Jul 31 16:34:59 morning sugardave Jul 31 16:48:39 my volume goes out, discovered that its like the old battery issue, if I press near the back/by the headjack, it comes back on/off.. like a short.. put a piece of cardboard between the backing for now.. Jul 31 16:50:57 all this time I've been un/reinstalling preware patches thinking it was the culprit.. lol.. I shoulda known better ;) Jul 31 16:52:22 free icons: http://www.iconpot.com/ Jul 31 16:53:16 haeffb: awesome Jul 31 16:54:05 yeah. I need to replace some icons in my app... Jul 31 17:02:41 * sugardave sets his horizontal scroller content wrapper to 1000000px wide. "There has to be a better way." Jul 31 17:05:14 yeah - gonna make a new icon in a few hours Jul 31 17:07:17 sugardave: 999999 is slightly smaller... Jul 31 17:07:47 sugardave, Anivrom: http://www.webos101.com/Depot_for_App_Preferences Jul 31 17:07:57 this works: element.style.width = (num of snapELements * 320) + 'px' Jul 31 17:08:00 god enough Jul 31 17:08:03 good, too Jul 31 17:08:53 good, 2 Jul 31 17:09:10 haeffb: cool, I might use them for this app, I haven't done the preferences stuff yet Jul 31 17:09:44 haeffb: I expected a themed name such as muffins Jul 31 17:09:58 Donuts Jul 31 17:10:43 pretty much the same thing as cupcakes, but the official way Jul 31 17:11:03 * sugardave "masters" the horizontal scroller. "Bend to my will! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" Jul 31 17:11:52 sugardave: I found a solution to your multiple scroller problem, you may or may not have thought of it before Jul 31 17:12:10 spill it Jul 31 17:13:38 next you can figure out how to use a List widget as the elements for a horizontal scroller Jul 31 17:13:39 scrollerToDeactivate.style.left = screenWidth Jul 31 17:13:43 good luck, we're all counting on you Jul 31 17:14:10 is there anything i can do to prevent too many cards error Jul 31 17:14:14 Anivrom: nice3 one, I had thought of moving them around, but didn't try it because I got frustrated :D Jul 31 17:14:19 sometimes all i have is one or none Jul 31 17:14:44 scrollerToActivate.style.left = 0 Jul 31 17:15:35 that should work just fine, I'll remember it next time. this time they get "Automatic navigation to the top of the list" Jul 31 17:15:35 Little less of a hack than saving the scrolling states Jul 31 17:15:39 it's a feature Jul 31 17:15:44 lol! Jul 31 17:17:28 haeffb: so you recommend muffins over cupcakes? Jul 31 17:17:45 he loves muffin tops Jul 31 17:17:54 muffs for short Jul 31 17:17:55 :P Jul 31 17:17:59 either should work, but I'm using muffs Jul 31 17:18:05 the tops are the best part Jul 31 17:18:18 hmm I might stick with cupcakes only cause I don't wanna convert. Jul 31 17:18:20 we'll see Jul 31 17:18:24 lol Jul 31 17:18:46 but I've spent so much time on my sql functions Jul 31 17:19:01 I don't wanna learn the recipe for muffs at this time even thoguh it's simple. Got other priorities, if it aint broke dont fix it. Jul 31 17:23:47 I guess I'm still confused on when to use var....like when I make a namespace for MyApp in my stage assistant outside the constructor, I use var MyApp = MyApp || {}; and then I can still access it from all assistants Jul 31 17:24:04 is this the wrong way? Jul 31 17:24:18 don't think it matters there. Jul 31 17:24:28 I get confused with that too. whether to use var bbb or simply bbb: Jul 31 17:24:40 you use it inside a function/object to PREVENT it from being global. Jul 31 17:24:44 outside...meh. Jul 31 17:24:49 ah ha Jul 31 17:24:50 whatever. Jul 31 17:24:50 okay Jul 31 17:24:53 that makes sense Jul 31 17:25:57 * haeffb needs to find a fire icon for hotlists Jul 31 17:29:08 is the following correct? http://pastebin.com/TV7csjsf Jul 31 17:29:43 wonder if I can steal^H^H^H^H^H use palms hot apps graphic... Jul 31 17:30:03 LoneStar99: looks fine Jul 31 17:30:06 someone else did alredy Jul 31 17:30:10 so I don't see why not Jul 31 17:30:12 haeffb: of course, it's pretty easy Jul 31 17:31:07 * haeffb assumes that if I put it in my app...and they approve the app... :) Jul 31 17:35:59 profit! Jul 31 17:38:10 I'll just tell them I'm promoting a hot apps winner... Jul 31 17:42:48 say I create an array, array1, then I push another array into it, array1.push({name: []}); then I add props. array1.name[0].img = "blah", it will create a prop img without throwing an error right? Am I understanding how js works? Jul 31 17:43:08 no Jul 31 17:43:19 if you array1.push() something Jul 31 17:43:30 that thing will be array1[x] Jul 31 17:43:39 right Jul 31 17:43:41 so, array1[x].name Jul 31 17:43:48 I meant array1[i].name[0] Jul 31 17:43:50 .img Jul 31 17:43:54 oh, yes Jul 31 17:43:55 then Jul 31 17:43:57 ok Jul 31 17:44:07 so I can create subprops on the fly without declaring them? Jul 31 17:44:13 yep Jul 31 17:44:16 cool beans Jul 31 17:46:29 hmmm...do all depots share a size limit or is it per depot? Jul 31 17:52:28 I'm trying to declare an array and it's elements properties all at the same time. can't seem to find an example ont he net, is this the right way? decorItems: [{name: this.currentSelectedItem.name, x1: null}], its in my game.js file, so not an assistant Jul 31 17:53:20 actually might not need to Jul 31 17:53:33 var array = ['item1','item2','item3'] Jul 31 17:53:42 no, I dont want to push elements. Jul 31 17:53:51 I wanted to push the props that the future elements will have Jul 31 17:54:07 but I realise that I dont need this Jul 31 17:54:31 if the array is empty it wont go into the for and thus will avoid the error. Jul 31 17:57:20 huh Jul 31 17:57:53 <_< *whistles to himself* Jul 31 17:58:19 apparently fanta orange was popular in nazi germany Jul 31 17:59:11 If you need more than 1 MB, store the database in the media partition by using the prefix "ext" before the database name. Jul 31 18:00:30 sugardave: the docs aren't exactly clear on the answer to your question Jul 31 18:00:34 er. They are clear. But I don't know if you can believe them. Jul 31 18:00:52 "You can store up to 1 MB in a depot" Jul 31 18:01:01 hello, oil Jul 31 18:01:09 ? Jul 31 18:01:39 only 1 MB? I thought it was 5 for depot Jul 31 18:01:44 oh well Jul 31 18:02:29 that's it, just "hello" Jul 31 18:02:44 checking your pulse Jul 31 18:03:13 I believe they have the same limits as a SQLite database. Jul 31 18:03:22 according to docs anyhow Jul 31 18:03:37 that makes sense (if you believe the ancient texts) Jul 31 18:03:39 1MB or limited only by physical memory if in /media/internal Jul 31 18:03:49 * oil brings out stone tablet Jul 31 18:04:22 * haeffb gonna go cut some boards. If I can find any boards to cut. Jul 31 18:04:32 with ninja-chops? Jul 31 18:04:37 or lame handsaw? Jul 31 18:13:44 * Anivrom got customized decor functional. :D Jul 31 18:23:31 woo! Jul 31 18:24:15 what the heck. I included database.js in my sources and called database.saveData; and it throws an error database not defined. Jul 31 18:24:37 do I need to wrap the database in var database = { Jul 31 18:24:38 ? Jul 31 18:24:49 dumb question nvm Jul 31 18:39:41 I'm about to call bs on popScene and popScenesTo and passing back data to the popped scene Jul 31 18:43:01 popScenesTo('main', null, {'data': 'test'}); right? Jul 31 18:43:47 then scene activate = function (event, thing)....thing should be that object, yet THERE IS NO THING Jul 31 19:12:30 what is the Offical twitter handle for "webos"? Jul 31 19:12:54 webosdev? Jul 31 19:13:41 yeah Jul 31 19:13:45 perfect Jul 31 19:13:57 that's more chuq... wait. same thing Jul 31 19:14:10 anyone have a twitter they want me to dollow? Jul 31 19:14:17 dollow --> follow Jul 31 19:14:44 meh, I just use my twitter to follow Jul 31 19:17:13 LoneStar99: what's your twitter. I'm loosing track of IRC people to twitter accounts... Jul 31 19:18:09 hmm... irc synergy... seems like win Jul 31 19:20:50 webos has a twitter handle? Jul 31 19:20:59 how about some skype synergy :( Jul 31 19:21:50 skype snipe Jul 31 19:21:59 jonny comes home from school and his dad asked what he learned that day. he says we learned our abc, I did really good, I could get up to G and the other kids could only get up to D Jul 31 19:21:59 well thats cause you're from newfoundland jonny, you're smarter than the other kids Jul 31 19:22:12 Next day same thing, father asks what he learned in school, jonny says we learned out 123's, I did betetr than the otehr kids, I could count up to 33 and they could only count up to 10 Jul 31 19:22:13 Well thats cause you're from newfoundland jonny you're smarter than the other kids Jul 31 19:22:16 Next day same thing, father asks what he learned in school, he said... well we had gym today, I was in the change room and it was strange, all the other boys had small penises and I had a very big one Jul 31 19:22:16 The father replied, well that's cause you're 20 years older than them jonny! Jul 31 19:22:21 joke spam! Jul 31 19:23:24 lol Jul 31 19:24:11 spamspamspam Jul 31 19:24:39 dkirker: i have a few twitter accounts - newest one is bobchatter Jul 31 19:33:13 whoooohoooo Jul 31 19:37:14 hello? Jul 31 20:01:44 * Anivrom drops pin Jul 31 20:07:28 clank clank clank Jul 31 20:08:37 wow that pin took forever to fall. Jul 31 20:28:11 long drop :) Jul 31 20:28:43 anyone used hold events to activate a timer and holdend events to deactivate it? Jul 31 20:50:44 Anyone else find that activate and deactivate functions get called when you would think they shouldnt? They called way too easily imo Jul 31 20:54:50 sugardave: event Jul 31 20:56:23 Anivrom: scene activate and deactivate? Jul 31 20:56:27 yea Jul 31 20:56:58 they get called each time the scene is activated or deactivated? Jul 31 20:57:08 lol Jul 31 20:57:33 Erm yea, but the expected behaviour for me atleast is when the card is minimized and maximized AFTER it has been "setup()" Jul 31 20:57:44 it called setup AND activate on first use and push Jul 31 20:58:40 er...that's the way it's supposed to work Jul 31 20:58:48 I just talked to an app :( Jul 31 20:58:57 haeffb: giving me a headache Jul 31 20:59:56 Anivrom: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1627&Itemid=43 Jul 31 21:00:28 you can add other listeners to see when it goes to card and back Jul 31 21:00:43 I know the launch cycle. I just think that setup should exclusively when the app is first opened but w/e I'll just had to put some checks in Jul 31 21:00:56 oil: have done that Jul 31 21:01:10 you just dont like that they're both called on first push? Jul 31 21:01:15 yea Jul 31 21:01:20 * oil always puts an if statement in activate Jul 31 21:01:40 I just think it should behave separately from the scene push Jul 31 21:01:43 but w/e Jul 31 21:01:53 Got it sorted out now, just needed some flags Jul 31 21:02:06 if what? Jul 31 21:02:27 in activate? Jul 31 21:02:56 yeah. if what? Jul 31 21:03:22 if (this.alreadyActivated) { /* do every activate after initial push */ } else { /* do only on first activate */ } Jul 31 21:03:30 this.alreadyActivated = true; Jul 31 21:03:42 hmmm... Jul 31 21:03:49 for example Jul 31 21:03:52 to update the list Jul 31 21:03:55 i do that in setup Jul 31 21:04:04 if (scenePushed === false) { do initial} else { do nothing} is mine Jul 31 21:04:07 so i dont do it in activate after setup Jul 31 21:04:30 but i do it if the card is activated again after the scene on top is popped Jul 31 21:04:50 oh I never pop my main so I dont need to do that Jul 31 21:04:59 why do it in setup the first time? why not just in activate always? Jul 31 21:05:29 so I hear you can sprint doctor to 1.4.5? Jul 31 21:06:56 because thats just how i did it Jul 31 21:06:57 lol Jul 31 21:06:59 or has the truth been found Jul 31 21:07:00 to be lies Jul 31 21:09:08 torchie: If I were in the early access program, and if a sprint 1.4.5 doctor had been made available to early access members, then perhaps I could doctor to 1.4.5...hypothetically speaking. Jul 31 21:09:35 otherwise I'd just keep tapping Updates, refresh... Jul 31 21:09:49 sugardave: I think you're doing it wrong. Jul 31 21:10:04 but only because the docs are wrong. Jul 31 21:10:11 * torchie sigh Jul 31 21:10:14 * torchie update Jul 31 21:10:16 * torchie refresh Jul 31 21:10:53 popScenesTo("main", {'data': 'test'}, null); Jul 31 21:11:48 activate = function (event) {...} and then event.data === 'test' Jul 31 21:13:19 Hmmm so what if the data you're saving is constantly being updated every say 1.5 seconds and then the user turns off their phone, how would you save that data out? would it trigger cleanup() in your app still? and obviously if they take out the battery that would be a bigger problem Jul 31 21:13:46 is the only answer perpetual saving when the data changes? Jul 31 21:14:03 (which is what I'm currently doing) Jul 31 21:19:31 how are you saving the data? Jul 31 21:19:37 cupcake Jul 31 21:19:42 cookies, Depot, SQLite? Jul 31 21:19:43 SQLite. Jul 31 21:19:59 yes, you have to continually save data changes. Jul 31 21:20:03 OR. Jul 31 21:21:01 you can save to a cookie and then load the cookie and save to a cupcake when your app loads again. - if your data is < 4k Jul 31 21:21:23 I have done that successfully in a couple of different apps. Jul 31 21:21:43 OR. Jul 31 21:22:04 4k = per cookie, right? Jul 31 21:22:06 you can try creating a dashboard stage to save the data in the background Jul 31 21:22:15 I *think* it's 4k total. Jul 31 21:22:24 nah my data exceeds 4k Jul 31 21:22:27 its not just prefs Jul 31 21:23:06 So I guess I'm gonna have to save out the info every 1.5 seconds Jul 31 21:23:31 you may be able to save it from the AppAssistant in a handleLaunch() routine if it takes less than 60 sec to save the data (which it should)... Jul 31 21:23:45 Yea it does, but what's the benefit of that Jul 31 21:24:22 You launch your app with a parameter that tells it to save data & includes the data object. Jul 31 21:24:53 in your AppAssistant.prototype.handleLaunch() you then save the data. Jul 31 21:24:56 um but whats teh benefit? I still need to have the data save when teh user exits Jul 31 21:25:05 this is how you're saving it. Jul 31 21:25:40 if you don't do anything else in handleLaunch, your app will just....save the data and die peacefully. Maybe. haven't tried this approach Jul 31 21:25:46 ok basically a bunch of variables get updated every 1.5 seconds anyway whether it saves or not, but if the user exits the program I need to have those variables persist. Jul 31 21:27:29 So I can handle that several ways, deactivate saves, which would handle popping the card and also closing the app since it has to be popped in order to close it, and if not that than the function thats called when the card IS killed (whether through popping first or not) but the problem with these solutions is what if the user pulls the battery out? thent he data gets lost from the whole current session Jul 31 21:28:17 oil: the reason I think that is because document.cookie contains every cookie in a single string Jul 31 21:28:39 but that may be flawed reasoning. Jul 31 21:29:16 Anivrom: No. You can't write to a database in deactivate() Jul 31 21:29:23 huh? why not? Jul 31 21:29:47 Because your app will be dead before the database transaction returns & therefore your data won't be saved. Jul 31 21:30:07 hum. Jul 31 21:30:38 the joys of asynchronous-ness Jul 31 21:31:27 hmm ok so I'm relaly gonna have to just save it every so often and take the hit if the user closes the game before the next interval Jul 31 21:31:44 is this your main scene? Jul 31 21:31:51 the bottom scene on the stack? Jul 31 21:32:17 I guess so. the timers for the variable updates every 1.5 seconds is in my game.js Jul 31 21:32:23 main scene doesn't do much Jul 31 21:32:32 just displays the visuals Jul 31 21:32:37 and interacts with the html Jul 31 21:32:50 game.js is my backend Jul 31 21:32:55 the reason I ask: Jul 31 21:33:46 if I have two scenes, and the user backswipes the top scene on the stack, then saving in deactivate() will likely work. Before he backswips the last scene on the stack, the save from deactivate() of the other scene is probably completed. Jul 31 21:34:31 If I'm trying to save in deactivate of the (last, bottom) scene on the stack, my app's dead before the save completes. Jul 31 21:34:53 Yea but it doesn't matter how the stack is ordered, the info is still being updated separately of any scene being pushed / popped. Jul 31 21:35:04 it runs in the background no matter what you're doing Jul 31 21:35:42 so? I'm talking about saving the data. Jul 31 21:36:08 I have 1 scene: save in deactivate of the scene won't work. Jul 31 21:36:21 I know, what you're saying is if you're in another screen other than main don't bother saving the data until cleanup() right? Jul 31 21:36:42 I have 2 scenes: save in deactivate of the top scene will likely work. save in deactivate of the bottom scene won't work. Jul 31 21:36:44 or deactivate Jul 31 21:36:53 I get it Jul 31 21:37:39 but what if the battery is pulled and they havent deactivated in a long time. allt hat data is gone. which is a very probable case Jul 31 21:37:52 However, if the users minimizes to card & flick closes the app in the second (top) scene, then saving in deactivate still won't work. Jul 31 21:38:01 yea Jul 31 21:38:08 Why would they pull the battery? Jul 31 21:38:19 I'm just trying to avoid the performance hit of saving out the object every 1.5 seconds Jul 31 21:38:29 Who knows, compensating for every case. Jul 31 21:39:04 So, use two scenes. One "let's get started, then let's quit" scene, and a "here we play" scene. Jul 31 21:39:34 save on deactivate of the "here we play" scene. And every 60 sec or something. Jul 31 21:40:06 OR use one of the other methods to make sure your data is saved when the app is closed. Jul 31 21:57:07 afternoon webos community friends! Jul 31 21:57:34 hey Jul 31 21:58:04 how are things? other than still not 1.4.5 Jul 31 21:59:00 i am on sprint and doctored to 1.4.5 Jul 31 21:59:14 nothing to look forward to Jul 31 22:00:50 yeah i am also on sprint and doctored but i want it to come out so i can sell some copies of my software Jul 31 22:03:41 wow canvas is having a real rough time keeping up with all the images im drawing now... and it's not even that much Jul 31 22:04:09 13 images. Jul 31 22:04:45 how big are the images and do they have transparency? Jul 31 22:05:24 no transparency and average 50x50 Jul 31 22:05:39 how many bytes? Jul 31 22:05:55 I need to get multiple canvases working. I get some weird zindex conflicts when I do multiple canvases Jul 31 22:06:00 idk how many bytes Jul 31 22:06:55 i just know when i was using SDL i couldnt draw very many frames per second when my png textures got very big at all Jul 31 22:07:59 hmm. well almost allt he images could be painted on a persistent canvas layer underneath. but I spend 5 hours trying to get that to work and gave up Jul 31 22:08:07 might have to try again Jul 31 22:27:51 palmdoc Jul 31 22:27:51 What kind of app rating is "Fuktacular. Would be 5 stars if a hot chick held up a sign with the date calculated." Jul 31 22:29:18 http://video.ign.com/dor/articles/894993/how-do-normal-people-see-videogame-box-art/videos/gstv_spc_073010b.html Jul 31 22:37:40 love the guy in the Mizzou shirt eating a hot dog. Jul 31 22:38:37 obviously a planter but a very entertaining one Jul 31 22:39:36 i dont understand why MS has 800 MS points for 9.99 but 1600 for 19.99.. they're ovrcharging by 0.01 ... Jul 31 22:40:29 so bloody greedy, they do anything to make a buck ( or in this case 1 cent) Jul 31 22:44:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw2nkoGLhrE .... soooo funny Jul 31 22:58:16 hey all Jul 31 23:00:09 hey Jul 31 23:00:33 sup Jul 31 23:00:39 do you develop for webos? Jul 31 23:00:42 Yea Jul 31 23:00:45 ah kool Jul 31 23:00:48 Everyone here does Jul 31 23:00:54 i was looking to develop for it too Jul 31 23:00:58 got some questions though Jul 31 23:01:03 well this is the best place to be then Jul 31 23:01:10 cool Jul 31 23:01:10 :) Jul 31 23:01:13 well, for starters Jul 31 23:01:20 is it still free to join the dev program? Jul 31 23:01:21 :) Jul 31 23:01:27 yep Jul 31 23:01:33 ah great Jul 31 23:01:36 k Jul 31 23:01:37 another one Jul 31 23:01:47 I'm abroad Jul 31 23:02:00 and where I am doesnt appear in the list of countries Jul 31 23:02:05 can i still apply? Jul 31 23:02:17 No clue about that one Jul 31 23:02:43 ah Jul 31 23:02:44 ok Jul 31 23:02:59 Are you really a broad? Jul 31 23:03:00 nice Jul 31 23:03:03 :P Jul 31 23:03:05 yea Jul 31 23:03:16 got a boyfriend? Jul 31 23:03:22 ah Jul 31 23:03:22 lolol Jul 31 23:03:23 :P Jul 31 23:03:27 abroad Jul 31 23:03:29 not a broad Jul 31 23:03:31 destionation arcade is broke on my xbox.. i have menu items such as 'Cboomc O c of BcMc' Jul 31 23:03:45 outside usa Jul 31 23:03:46 duh Jul 31 23:03:52 there are no chicks on the internet Jul 31 23:03:52 duh Jul 31 23:03:55 haha Jul 31 23:04:01 :) Jul 31 23:04:03 I met my wife on the internet Jul 31 23:04:04 ;) Jul 31 23:04:14 And she's very much a girl Jul 31 23:04:56 i met my ex on irc :P lasted 5yrs and we're still good friends (going on 11yrs), she too is very much a girl Jul 31 23:04:58 are you certain?¿ Jul 31 23:05:38 me likey: http://img194.imageshack.us/i/captureqno.png/ Jul 31 23:05:50 ok Jul 31 23:05:54 so, my next question was Jul 31 23:06:01 Well, I've been married for almost 12 months, and I've established physical contact in an intimate way quite frequently, so yea I think so Jul 31 23:06:30 pretty good haeffb Jul 31 23:06:47 anyone know that browser-based drag and drop dev tool for webos? Jul 31 23:06:57 scriptalicous? Jul 31 23:07:05 hmm Jul 31 23:07:09 i think it was called something else Jul 31 23:07:12 oh Jul 31 23:07:12 ares? Jul 31 23:07:12 haeffb: are you serious? Jul 31 23:07:14 yea Jul 31 23:07:14 ohhh Jul 31 23:07:15 Ares Jul 31 23:07:16 ares Jul 31 23:07:18 i think Jul 31 23:07:19 is it good? Jul 31 23:07:27 Yea its good Jul 31 23:07:33 can someone with no coding abilities at all Jul 31 23:07:34 like me Jul 31 23:07:37 make an app with that? Jul 31 23:07:38 Um Jul 31 23:07:48 Depends on what kind of appy ou want to make Jul 31 23:07:53 haeffb: I worked around it, but now will see if I can make it do what I want Jul 31 23:07:55 You're going to have to learn javascript for sure Jul 31 23:07:58 any kind Jul 31 23:08:00 hmm Jul 31 23:08:05 is it like HTML? Jul 31 23:08:11 if so then its ok Jul 31 23:08:13 sugardave: yes, stone cold serious Jul 31 23:08:15 i know HTML Jul 31 23:08:17 you use html/css/javascript to make webos apps Jul 31 23:08:24 really? Jul 31 23:08:28 yes Jul 31 23:08:34 so no real coding like C++ Jul 31 23:08:35 or objc Jul 31 23:08:37 they are mini webpages Jul 31 23:08:38 No Jul 31 23:08:40 dmkae: you have to use all 2 Jul 31 23:08:40 ah Jul 31 23:08:42 er 3 Jul 31 23:08:52 Javascript makes the app work Jul 31 23:08:53 AT THE SAME TIME Jul 31 23:08:59 html / css is just visual layout Jul 31 23:09:03 oh noes Jul 31 23:09:03 ah Jul 31 23:09:04 what?!?!? at the same time!?!?! Jul 31 23:09:10 I know Jul 31 23:09:12 give up now Jul 31 23:09:16 yea really Jul 31 23:09:17 so making apps for palm isnt all at like iphone Jul 31 23:09:20 no Jul 31 23:09:20 * haeffb realizes what I've been doing wrong all along... Jul 31 23:09:29 dmkae: not even close Jul 31 23:09:31 although webos has a c++ enviroment Jul 31 23:09:36 ah Jul 31 23:09:37 so technically now it is closer Jul 31 23:09:41 so there can't be games for example Jul 31 23:09:45 ... yea Jul 31 23:09:46 like there is for the iphone Jul 31 23:09:46 there can Jul 31 23:09:54 do you own a palm pre or pixi? Jul 31 23:09:55 games made in html/javascript? Jul 31 23:09:56 Anivrom: the hotlist icon... :) Jul 31 23:09:57 nope Jul 31 23:10:00 would like to Jul 31 23:10:04 Yea I saw, very nice Jul 31 23:10:07 oh, a more important question Jul 31 23:10:08 * sugardave made a game in webOS. Jul 31 23:10:16 i made webOS Jul 31 23:10:19 Can i make money from selling apps in pre? Jul 31 23:10:22 Yes Jul 31 23:10:24 if im outside the usa? Jul 31 23:10:26 Yes Jul 31 23:10:28 really Jul 31 23:10:30 yes Jul 31 23:10:32 if in supported country Jul 31 23:10:40 ^ Jul 31 23:10:43 i think my country is supported Jul 31 23:10:53 yea, supported by the US Jul 31 23:10:55 lolzzz Jul 31 23:11:03 lozlzlzlz Jul 31 23:11:04 ok Jul 31 23:11:10 LOL Jul 31 23:11:11 http://www.instantrimshot.com/ Jul 31 23:11:12 i didnt see my country in the list Jul 31 23:11:13 hence the gargantuan deficit of the united states of america Jul 31 23:11:22 I LIVE IN NORTH KOREA Jul 31 23:11:26 oh noes Jul 31 23:11:27 RUN Jul 31 23:11:27 i work for kim yong il Jul 31 23:11:29 :) Jul 31 23:11:35 the nukes are upon us Jul 31 23:11:44 defcon 5! Jul 31 23:11:45 Im working on a nuke launching app for dear leader Jul 31 23:12:16 jk Jul 31 23:12:17 :) Jul 31 23:12:24 well, another question Jul 31 23:12:34 do i need all that shit to make apps for webos? Jul 31 23:12:40 they ask java Jul 31 23:12:41 haeffb: well, I'll be damned Jul 31 23:12:42 just the sdk/pdk Jul 31 23:12:44 and java Jul 31 23:12:58 not necessarily, sugardave. Maybe just darned. Jul 31 23:12:58 you could write an app in notepad if you had enough html/css/javascript skills Jul 31 23:12:59 they ask for something else too Jul 31 23:13:02 its just not as fun Jul 31 23:13:05 yea Jul 31 23:13:13 virtualizer Jul 31 23:13:19 i dont want to install that Jul 31 23:13:19 You would have to download teh virtual emulator Jul 31 23:13:24 You have to to test your app lol Jul 31 23:13:30 since you dont own a phone Jul 31 23:13:33 yea Jul 31 23:13:34 you need java and virtual box to run the emulator Jul 31 23:13:51 does it have to be that release? Jul 31 23:13:58 or the virtualizer? Jul 31 23:14:10 has to be sun microsystems virtual box Jul 31 23:14:37 thems the breaks Jul 31 23:14:47 small price to pay for webos development Jul 31 23:14:52 Oracle virtual box Jul 31 23:15:01 right that one Jul 31 23:15:03 same thing Jul 31 23:15:22 the virtual box formerly known as sun microsystems virtual box\ Jul 31 23:15:57 i mean can i download a newer release? Jul 31 23:16:04 or a beta one for example? Jul 31 23:16:05 at your peril Jul 31 23:16:09 ok Jul 31 23:16:11 prolly wouldnt work Jul 31 23:16:14 why? Jul 31 23:16:20 does it need that specific version? Jul 31 23:16:20 they are very scrict on the version matching Jul 31 23:16:27 due to feature dependancies Jul 31 23:16:48 I think they have a script to start up the vm, and it looks for a specific release Jul 31 23:17:00 why strict on a version of something made by another company? Jul 31 23:17:04 :P Jul 31 23:17:15 feature dependancies Jul 31 23:17:20 ah Jul 31 23:17:21 ask lemketron Jul 31 23:17:24 ok Jul 31 23:17:32 so, if it's only html/js/css Jul 31 23:17:32 they rely on certain features to be true Jul 31 23:17:35 why the need for java? Jul 31 23:17:42 thats what the box runs on lol Jul 31 23:17:50 i still dont complete get how everything is just web coding Jul 31 23:17:53 is it? Jul 31 23:18:04 thats ok you dont need to get it, just follow the instructions :)_ Jul 31 23:18:05 so i would be really making web sites Jul 31 23:18:11 right? Jul 31 23:18:12 basically Jul 31 23:18:14 hehehehe Jul 31 23:18:15 but they run as apps Jul 31 23:18:19 ok Jul 31 23:18:29 since webos is technically a webbrowser that opens localized webpages Jul 31 23:18:35 Each app has an index.html Jul 31 23:18:35 ah Jul 31 23:18:35 one difference in 1.4.5 is usb transfer is much faster Jul 31 23:18:48 for example, if i wanted to make a game Jul 31 23:18:55 how can a webpage be a game? Jul 31 23:18:57 You can use DOM manipulation Jul 31 23:19:00 Or you can use canvas Jul 31 23:19:04 ah Jul 31 23:19:07 Or you can go straight to c++ Jul 31 23:19:09 heard of both Jul 31 23:19:20 c++ Jul 31 23:19:22 * dmkae pukes Jul 31 23:19:25 heh Jul 31 23:19:29 :P Jul 31 23:19:39 so c++ can be employed Jul 31 23:19:51 i assume most devs will use it then Jul 31 23:19:54 instead of html Jul 31 23:19:55 no Jul 31 23:19:56 right? Jul 31 23:20:03 no Jul 31 23:20:05 not everyone has the time to learn C++ Jul 31 23:20:09 like me Jul 31 23:20:16 time, or patience, or care Jul 31 23:20:18 :) Jul 31 23:20:19 or the time to build an app in c++ Jul 31 23:20:38 i ask all these cause ive gotten tired of the appstore Jul 31 23:20:43 and their shit requirements Jul 31 23:20:44 :D Jul 31 23:20:52 yea palm is lax Jul 31 23:20:57 lax? Jul 31 23:20:58 only have a few criteria Jul 31 23:21:00 laxative? Jul 31 23:21:03 yea Jul 31 23:21:06 good Jul 31 23:21:08 they make you dump every 5 minutes Jul 31 23:21:09 its terrible Jul 31 23:21:12 i could take a laxative Jul 31 23:21:22 :D Jul 31 23:21:36 thats good Jul 31 23:21:50 that was new to me Jul 31 23:22:05 html/css/js for webos Jul 31 23:22:17 thought it was something like c++/java Jul 31 23:22:19 js isnt hard Jul 31 23:22:20 obj c Jul 31 23:22:21 i know Jul 31 23:22:29 I started learning 2 1/2 weeks ago Jul 31 23:22:34 DOM and canvas OTOH do seem hard Jul 31 23:22:39 wow Jul 31 23:22:44 nah canvas is easy Jul 31 23:22:49 its got a more native feel Jul 31 23:22:52 whas are you making for webos? Jul 31 23:22:55 a game Jul 31 23:23:00 really Jul 31 23:23:02 what kind of game? Jul 31 23:23:06 is it like Halo? Jul 31 23:23:13 yea it is halo Jul 31 23:23:18 awesome! Jul 31 23:23:20 how did you guess on the first tyr Jul 31 23:23:21 wtf Jul 31 23:23:27 I'm porting halo for webos Jul 31 23:23:32 its all hush hush Jul 31 23:23:34 dont tell anyone Jul 31 23:23:40 ok Jul 31 23:23:41 ;) Jul 31 23:24:10 haeffb: fixed allows you to overlap html elements right? Jul 31 23:24:11 But for real, if someone wanted to make a game like a FPS Jul 31 23:24:15 or a RTS game Jul 31 23:24:21 C++ would be necessary Jul 31 23:24:22 RTS could be done in js Jul 31 23:24:24 wouldnt it? Jul 31 23:24:30 really Jul 31 23:24:32 fps = c++ Jul 31 23:24:34 if you were a real bad ass, yep Jul 31 23:24:42 you would need a ton of optimization Jul 31 23:24:44 why fps= c++ Jul 31 23:24:52 umm Jul 31 23:24:53 yea that was my point Jul 31 23:25:07 cause 3d is too graphically intense for an interpreted language such as javascript Jul 31 23:25:11 canvas is 2d, so you'd need to do some serious number crunching for an fps Jul 31 23:25:16 c++ accesses the gpu directly Jul 31 23:25:16 to make any sort of "real" game application, you would need a real coding tool like c++ Jul 31 23:25:26 not really Jul 31 23:25:33 Anivrom: I have no clue about CSS. really. Jul 31 23:25:36 You should go online and look at some games Jul 31 23:25:38 blah Jul 31 23:25:46 so, what could be used instead? Jul 31 23:25:48 next person: heyyyy sugardave buddy ol pal Jul 31 23:26:00 hello?? Jul 31 23:26:00 mmhhhh? Jul 31 23:26:06 nothing im googling it Jul 31 23:26:14 :P Jul 31 23:26:47 Anivrom: fixed position means you can put them wherever the hell you want Jul 31 23:27:05 what kind of games are already on webos Jul 31 23:27:08 in the store Jul 31 23:27:11 I thought that was absolute Jul 31 23:27:13 and what are they made on ? Jul 31 23:27:21 depends. Jul 31 23:27:30 all 3 ways we already mentioned Jul 31 23:27:32 from what I see, fixed also means relative to the browser window/viewport and NOT the containing element Jul 31 23:27:35 DOM canvas c++ Jul 31 23:27:41 hmm Jul 31 23:27:45 ok Jul 31 23:27:50 abdolute lets you place anywhere in the context of its containing element Jul 31 23:27:53 well??? Jul 31 23:27:55 absolute, too Jul 31 23:29:12 these canvases are pissing me off. getting some weird zindex stuff with multiple canvases Jul 31 23:29:30 what kind of game are you making anivrom? Jul 31 23:29:39 can't really say Jul 31 23:29:44 why not Jul 31 23:29:53 corporate espionage Jul 31 23:30:05 * dmkae facepalms Jul 31 23:30:09 :) Jul 31 23:30:23 are you going to sell it on the webos store? Jul 31 23:30:27 of course Jul 31 23:30:28 ah Jul 31 23:30:30 how much? Jul 31 23:30:34 $1 Jul 31 23:30:45 thats another question Jul 31 23:30:49 * sugardave knows all about Anivrom's "be a fabulous interios designer" game. Jul 31 23:30:51 how many applications are already there? Jul 31 23:30:53 lol Jul 31 23:31:01 if you pay me enough, I can divulge some secrets Jul 31 23:31:15 Judging by that description you don't sugardave. the interior design aspect is only a small *bonus* feature of the game Jul 31 23:31:17 :) Jul 31 23:31:23 bonus Jul 31 23:31:32 like a Jonas Bonus? Jul 31 23:31:33 My question is, will there be a "gold rush" like period in the palm store like there was in the apple appstore when it was new? Jul 31 23:31:39 Yea just like that Jul 31 23:31:43 dmkae: too late Jul 31 23:31:46 dammit Jul 31 23:31:46 lolol Jul 31 23:31:54 why too late? Jul 31 23:31:56 But if you make a great app, there will be a gold rush to get your app Jul 31 23:32:00 it isnt even out Jul 31 23:32:03 so start coding! Jul 31 23:32:03 is it? Jul 31 23:32:07 LOL Jul 31 23:32:10 im not kidding now Jul 31 23:32:13 dmkae: webos has been out for years Jul 31 23:32:13 dmkae: you're kidding, right? Jul 31 23:32:20 i mean the pre Jul 31 23:32:22 yea Jul 31 23:32:27 googling pre launch date Jul 31 23:32:31 google* Jul 31 23:32:36 June 2009 Jul 31 23:32:36 google it for me Jul 31 23:32:37 :) Jul 31 23:32:39 damn Jul 31 23:32:40 a year Jul 31 23:32:45 Why would I google it for you? Jul 31 23:32:51 cause im lazy Jul 31 23:32:57 gaggle my hangles Jul 31 23:32:57 catalog is out of beta since Jan 2010 or so Jul 31 23:33:00 so the pre has been out for a year now Jul 31 23:33:09 so how many apps are there ? Jul 31 23:33:11 right now? Jul 31 23:33:14 3K + Jul 31 23:33:16 I think Jul 31 23:33:18 ah Jul 31 23:33:21 high quality apps Jul 31 23:33:30 so the gold rush is over then Jul 31 23:33:32 not crapplets liek the appl store Jul 31 23:33:33 ? Jul 31 23:33:34 ah Jul 31 23:33:42 * dmkae likes crapplets Jul 31 23:34:13 basically i want to make a shit ton of money from selling these apps Jul 31 23:34:15 :) Jul 31 23:34:23 well then start learning how to code Jul 31 23:34:24 good luck Jul 31 23:34:29 w3schools.com Jul 31 23:34:33 gogogo Jul 31 23:34:34 i know html like i said Jul 31 23:34:36 no time to lose Jul 31 23:34:40 yea Jul 31 23:34:56 so, is the pre like android? Jul 31 23:35:08 like a standard, or is it a phone device Jul 31 23:35:10 like the iphone Jul 31 23:35:16 * Anivrom passes the torch to someone else Jul 31 23:35:19 :P Jul 31 23:35:39 another question Jul 31 23:35:43 what was scriptalicious? Jul 31 23:35:50 google it :) Jul 31 23:36:05 my google is borked up Jul 31 23:36:07 :) Jul 31 23:36:11 bing it Jul 31 23:36:17 i banged the bing Jul 31 23:36:22 http://script.aculo.us/ - that ? Jul 31 23:36:24 yahoo it Jul 31 23:36:33 my hoe took my yahoo Jul 31 23:36:39 ah k Jul 31 23:36:43 think that one is it Jul 31 23:36:52 looks like you're out of luck then. might as well give up on webos if you dont have google Jul 31 23:37:08 what i like about this pre, is that its sdk works with what i have Jul 31 23:37:15 i dont have to get a mac to make apps Jul 31 23:37:16 :) Jul 31 23:37:31 well, i can get google Jul 31 23:37:32 :) Jul 31 23:37:34 there the heck is alexfner Jul 31 23:37:53 whos that Jul 31 23:38:06 a guy Jul 31 23:38:09 k Jul 31 23:38:12 your guy? Jul 31 23:38:12 :D Jul 31 23:38:22 totally Jul 31 23:38:25 hehehe Jul 31 23:38:57 ok, so, i just need the sdk, the virtualizer and java to make apps Jul 31 23:39:10 java ? Jul 31 23:39:18 its on their site Jul 31 23:39:20 ares.palm.com Jul 31 23:39:26 ah Jul 31 23:39:29 and ofc google.ca Jul 31 23:39:36 oh, yeah i guess they like to use java Jul 31 23:39:37 that was my next question Jul 31 23:39:50 can i make a complete app from that ares thing? Jul 31 23:39:53 you need java for virtualbox, I think Jul 31 23:39:55 like a game Jul 31 23:40:07 i was looking to develop for it too Jul 31 23:40:07 got some questions though Jul 31 23:40:08 a fairly good game? Jul 31 23:40:13 does this still qualify as "some" ? :P Jul 31 23:40:24 hehehe Jul 31 23:40:27 well, lots of questions Jul 31 23:40:29 that better? Jul 31 23:40:29 if you know javascript then yes Jul 31 23:40:30 :) Jul 31 23:40:34 i know js Jul 31 23:40:38 you can't do anything in webos without js Jul 31 23:40:39 dmkae: it's all going to depend on how clever you are and what qualifies as "fairly good" Jul 31 23:40:47 wow, ares.. Jul 31 23:40:49 well, lets say, since a fps is out Jul 31 23:40:51 a RTS Jul 31 23:40:55 k-: whats wrong with ares? Jul 31 23:40:55 or a RPG Jul 31 23:41:04 omg, k- speaks?! Jul 31 23:41:08 i think google has something similar to ares Jul 31 23:41:13 app inventor or something Jul 31 23:41:20 its for 10 year olds Jul 31 23:41:27 Anivrom: nothing... Jul 31 23:41:29 ares? Jul 31 23:41:33 ok :P Jul 31 23:41:35 app inventor is a little bit different Jul 31 23:41:39 thought you were bashign my IDE or something! Jul 31 23:41:43 heads woulda rolled Jul 31 23:42:03 http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/07/the-burger-lab-how-to-make-an-in-n-out-double-double-animal-style.html Jul 31 23:42:06 ares has a full text editor for writing your own methods and whatnot .. you can go nuts Jul 31 23:42:10 my favorite thing about Ares is how it makes it almost impossible for me to help anyone who is using it Jul 31 23:42:11 ah Jul 31 23:42:16 hehehe Jul 31 23:42:20 i like that Jul 31 23:42:22 yea its great Jul 31 23:42:28 so, for ares, i dont need anything but the browser? Jul 31 23:42:28 gives you an excuse Jul 31 23:42:36 no you need the sdk and the emulator Jul 31 23:42:38 -_- Jul 31 23:42:38 or do i still need the sdk, java and the rest Jul 31 23:42:39 ah Jul 31 23:42:40 damn Jul 31 23:42:41 just download allt hat stuff Jul 31 23:42:43 dmkae: if you want to actually run the apps, you need an emulator Jul 31 23:42:44 and check out the website Jul 31 23:42:48 ok Jul 31 23:42:48 then come back if you have questions Jul 31 23:42:49 :) Jul 31 23:42:56 After you visit google first ofc Jul 31 23:42:58 so what does ares give you then? Jul 31 23:42:59 thought it was like palm-generate -> -> palm-package ... Jul 31 23:43:07 you can skip ares then Jul 31 23:43:28 Ares= GUI ide Jul 31 23:43:33 that's all? Jul 31 23:43:36 just a pretty IDE? Jul 31 23:43:42 no, a useful ide Jul 31 23:43:42 + some stuff that's not documented Jul 31 23:43:45 just check it out! Jul 31 23:43:46 Anivrom: gotcha ;) Jul 31 23:43:48 lol Jul 31 23:43:51 + some stuff that's different than regular Mojo Jul 31 23:43:56 + ? Jul 31 23:43:56 ok, so how is app inventor different? Jul 31 23:44:09 it's for android.... Jul 31 23:44:17 idk why dont you look at the inventor and at ares Jul 31 23:44:24 i did Jul 31 23:44:26 oh Jul 31 23:44:31 havent tried them Jul 31 23:44:40 wanted to learn from people actually using them Jul 31 23:44:41 :) Jul 31 23:44:52 i mean, from what i read about both Jul 31 23:45:09 was that they were bringing app development to the "masses" Jul 31 23:45:25 to everyone, non-coders, and such Jul 31 23:45:29 for android... ares = webos, sugardave just pointed that out Jul 31 23:45:37 i know, duh Jul 31 23:45:59 just wanted to know if ares is drag and drop like inventor for android Jul 31 23:46:09 the screens I saw for app inventor kinda reminded me of the LegOS builder for mindstorms Jul 31 23:46:12 yes but only for graphical widgets, you gotta write most of the code yourself Jul 31 23:46:22 * dmkae hates coding Jul 31 23:46:33 dmkae shouldnt be developing apps then :) Jul 31 23:46:35 :D Jul 31 23:46:38 i dont Jul 31 23:46:47 i dont consider html coding Jul 31 23:46:48 :) Jul 31 23:47:02 well html also is never gonna get you a useful webos app Jul 31 23:47:11 JAVASCRIPT Jul 31 23:47:14 i know. js will Jul 31 23:47:14 :) Jul 31 23:47:18 js is easy too Jul 31 23:47:20 :) Jul 31 23:47:32 then there really isnt anything left. start coding and lets see some magic Jul 31 23:47:33 js is just a language, like any other language Jul 31 23:47:46 yea Jul 31 23:47:51 it's kind of like Sanskrit Jul 31 23:47:56 im more like an investor Jul 31 23:47:58 C, C++, FORTRAN, javascript Jul 31 23:48:00 :) Jul 31 23:48:11 dmkae: oh? you need a hired gun? Jul 31 23:48:16 i would like to know if it's a good investment developing for pre Jul 31 23:48:17 yea Jul 31 23:48:24 i could use a hired gun Jul 31 23:48:26 or several Jul 31 23:48:33 www.elance.com Jul 31 23:48:34 Ok, I'm in Jul 31 23:48:42 screw that elance shit Jul 31 23:48:45 tell me what you want me to build Jul 31 23:48:56 a 3d RTS Jul 31 23:49:07 hahahahahha Jul 31 23:49:07 Oh. Never mind. Jul 31 23:49:09 think command and conquer Jul 31 23:49:11 :) Jul 31 23:49:21 too difficult? Jul 31 23:49:26 how much money you got? Jul 31 23:49:27 lol Jul 31 23:49:43 couple g's Jul 31 23:49:53 thats a good startup Jul 31 23:49:57 is it too expensive to develop for pre? Jul 31 23:50:08 I don't spend too much Jul 31 23:50:10 costs almost nothing. Jul 31 23:50:16 great to know Jul 31 23:50:20 got a computer & an internet Jul 31 23:50:22 haeffb: if you're the one doing the coding Jul 31 23:50:32 what kind of app could you make, haeffb Jul 31 23:50:33 and time Jul 31 23:51:01 I could make a tip calculator Jul 31 23:51:07 LOL Jul 31 23:51:07 hmm Jul 31 23:51:07 ok Jul 31 23:51:10 haeffb can make you any kind of app...and it will be badder than Chuck Norris Jul 31 23:51:13 something else? Jul 31 23:51:19 what more would you need? Jul 31 23:51:20 I could make a loan calculator Jul 31 23:51:26 hmm Jul 31 23:51:29 ok Jul 31 23:51:30 how about a tip calculator that tweets what you just tipped? Jul 31 23:51:37 a tip calculator called the willard: webos Jul 31 23:51:38 that could be good Jul 31 23:51:41 we call it Twipper Jul 31 23:51:52 * dmkae copyrights Twipper Jul 31 23:51:53 womp womp Jul 31 23:51:55 done Jul 31 23:51:56 somebody's already working on that one... Jul 31 23:52:26 dmkae can't copyright prior art Jul 31 23:52:27 http://github.com/dremel/Twipper Jul 31 23:52:30 go buts Jul 31 23:52:33 nuts Jul 31 23:52:33 ffs why is my canvas stretching when I have the dimensions set to 320x480.. Jul 31 23:52:35 damn Jul 31 23:52:37 friggin bizzare Jul 31 23:52:41 i find interesting that all these smartphones are basically trying to repeat the web Jul 31 23:52:54 ok, so seriously Jul 31 23:52:57 smartphones are apart of the web... Jul 31 23:53:02 i find interesting that you would say that Jul 31 23:53:02 its just an arm of the web Jul 31 23:53:06 lets say a simple game Jul 31 23:53:08 like pong Jul 31 23:53:13 or pacman Jul 31 23:53:16 already done Jul 31 23:53:19 could you make that? Jul 31 23:53:26 I could probably make pong Jul 31 23:53:34 already done Jul 31 23:53:35 pong would take 2 days to make Jul 31 23:53:35 :) Jul 31 23:53:36 pacman is tougher because of paths and whatnot Jul 31 23:53:46 not even Jul 31 23:53:46 sidescroller? Jul 31 23:54:02 are there already made engines for webos? Jul 31 23:54:07 I'm also coming from the "no real games done" side of the aisle Jul 31 23:54:12 like those free engines/middleware? Jul 31 23:54:23 "no real games done"? Jul 31 23:54:28 ?? Jul 31 23:54:28 yes Jul 31 23:54:32 dont get it Jul 31 23:54:34 meaning he hasnt done a real game Jul 31 23:54:40 ah Jul 31 23:54:41 so he doesn't really know whats involved Jul 31 23:54:43 haeffb Jul 31 23:54:44 but it isnt much Jul 31 23:54:46 could you? Jul 31 23:55:09 eventually Jul 31 23:55:15 ah Jul 31 23:55:33 but at this point I have no desire to Jul 31 23:55:35 technically, I could make a side-scrolling type of game as I have recently become successful with horizontal scrollers Jul 31 23:55:38 i suppose these smartphones open the possibility to make inventive apps that involve the web Jul 31 23:55:50 sugardave: ah Jul 31 23:56:00 lol sugardave Jul 31 23:56:10 and what did you employ to make that horizontal scroller? Jul 31 23:56:11 it would suck, though Jul 31 23:56:14 ah Jul 31 23:56:18 then screw it Jul 31 23:56:19 javascript Jul 31 23:56:19 :) Jul 31 23:56:25 html Jul 31 23:56:27 css Jul 31 23:56:44 a top down shooter? Jul 31 23:57:03 easier than side-scrolling, I'd guess Jul 31 23:57:07 i know some 3d modeling, so i could make 3d models for any game Jul 31 23:57:17 besides being the investor Jul 31 23:57:18 :) Jul 31 23:57:20 <--- 3d studio max Jul 31 23:57:27 yea Jul 31 23:57:33 10 years. Jul 31 23:57:35 though i prefer XSI Jul 31 23:57:38 really? Jul 31 23:57:40 yea Jul 31 23:57:58 youve been working with 3ds for 10 yrs? Jul 31 23:57:59 <---- graphic designer. 12 years photoshop Jul 31 23:58:02 ah Jul 31 23:58:08 i could someone like you Jul 31 23:58:10 :) Jul 31 23:58:13 you could? Jul 31 23:58:16 yea Jul 31 23:58:26 use*? Jul 31 23:58:28 and can you code too? Jul 31 23:58:28 yea Jul 31 23:58:33 * dmkae types fast Jul 31 23:58:54 um yea I can code. Jul 31 23:59:07 write me a game for webos then Jul 31 23:59:08 :) Jul 31 23:59:24 I'm working on this oen atm. prolly for a few more weeks Jul 31 23:59:32 ok Jul 31 23:59:47 and I dont do 3d, thats c++ Jul 31 23:59:55 anyone buy stuff regularly from the pre store? Aug 01 00:00:09 dmkae: everyone here Aug 01 00:00:17 ah Aug 01 00:00:23 I probably have the fewest apps Aug 01 00:00:24 so is the store like the appstore? Aug 01 00:00:35 I have the most free apps I'm sure Aug 01 00:00:36 you buy directly from the pre Aug 01 00:00:37 ah Aug 01 00:00:51 are there ads available for the apps in the pre store? Aug 01 00:01:15 ummm Aug 01 00:01:25 there is the 'featured apps' section Aug 01 00:01:33 which is mysterious and nobody knows how to get on it Aug 01 00:01:39 hehehe Aug 01 00:01:49 like the iphone's whats hot Aug 01 00:01:50 :P Aug 01 00:01:51 meh it's all the studios that get on it Aug 01 00:01:58 to showoff the pdk stuff Aug 01 00:02:05 haeffb is/was on it Aug 01 00:02:08 for Done, I think Aug 01 00:02:12 Done! Aug 01 00:02:13 random ppl Aug 01 00:02:17 once in a while Aug 01 00:02:31 there's a Featured Apps app Aug 01 00:02:39 I couldnt find it Aug 01 00:02:40 like i was saying im considering developing for other smartphones Aug 01 00:02:48 other than what? Aug 01 00:02:56 since im tired of all the crap with developing for apple's phone Aug 01 00:03:00 The great thing about webos is because it's small, if you have a killer app its gonna do well Aug 01 00:03:14 that's what i wanted to know Aug 01 00:03:18 is it still small? Aug 01 00:03:24 with 3k+ apps it cant be small Aug 01 00:03:25 yes Aug 01 00:03:32 lol iphone as 100k apps Aug 01 00:03:35 so 3k is small Aug 01 00:03:42 think of the future Aug 01 00:03:43 < 1M users small Aug 01 00:03:43 so is there a "gold rush" right now? Aug 01 00:03:47 tablets Aug 01 00:03:50 netbooks Aug 01 00:03:51 printers Aug 01 00:03:52 dude lol Aug 01 00:03:52 like there was with the appstore in 2008? Aug 01 00:03:54 haha Aug 01 00:04:16 more like an iron rush Aug 01 00:04:32 i mean there was a time in the appstore that you coul make a complete shit app Aug 01 00:04:43 and it would sell like hotcakes since there were so few Aug 01 00:05:06 maybe a tin rush Aug 01 00:05:12 palm users are actually not "retards who follow mindlessly like lemmings behind a company that wants to steal their soul" Aug 01 00:05:16 so a crap app would do bad Aug 01 00:05:24 good point Aug 01 00:05:29 ah Aug 01 00:05:35 there's pyrite in them hills Aug 01 00:05:40 so then expectations are much higher in pre Aug 01 00:05:45 erm yea Aug 01 00:05:56 so its much harder to develop for it then Aug 01 00:05:58 as developers we set teh expectations high. Aug 01 00:06:09 I know, just look at Yule Log. Aug 01 00:06:14 hah Aug 01 00:06:24 I know I wanna make it great cause there is so much competition Aug 01 00:06:34 dmkae: I'd forget it if I were you. There's no get-rich-quick scheme here Aug 01 00:06:42 maybe Aug 01 00:06:47 thats what the appstore is for Aug 01 00:06:48 ;) Aug 01 00:07:50 like you said,i do have a computer, internet, google Aug 01 00:07:51 and time Aug 01 00:08:00 so maybe i could get me some coin Aug 01 00:08:00 perfect! Aug 01 00:08:01 ;) Aug 01 00:08:02 but how much time? Aug 01 00:08:05 lots Aug 01 00:08:06 is the question Aug 01 00:08:22 But the question is, do we have the time to answer any more questions? Aug 01 00:08:23 I mean time before the sweet spot ends Aug 01 00:08:26 LOL Aug 01 00:08:33 dont know Aug 01 00:08:37 would like to konw Aug 01 00:08:39 sugardave Aug 01 00:08:50 you might have 24 hours/day....but if the rush is over in 2 days, that's not much ;) Aug 01 00:08:52 whens the sweet spot engding? Aug 01 00:08:54 you've prolly already missed it Aug 01 00:08:59 about 2 days ago Aug 01 00:09:02 that's what I mean...it's unknown Aug 01 00:09:06 you missed it too? Aug 01 00:09:09 nah Aug 01 00:09:12 why not? Aug 01 00:09:17 I started just in time Aug 01 00:09:24 2 days ago? Aug 01 00:09:29 no Aug 01 00:09:31 couple weeks Aug 01 00:09:32 3 days? Aug 01 00:09:34 ah Aug 01 00:09:40 you're a bit too late. you can try though Aug 01 00:09:42 i could have an app ready in a week Aug 01 00:09:45 :) Aug 01 00:09:45 sweet Aug 01 00:09:49 I would buy it Aug 01 00:09:55 for serious Aug 01 00:09:57 ok Aug 01 00:10:00 buy it now Aug 01 00:10:03 ok Aug 01 00:10:07 searching the catalogue Aug 01 00:10:09 whast it called? Aug 01 00:10:37 it's called fololingAvivrom Aug 01 00:10:46 hmmm checking Aug 01 00:10:56 nope can't find it, maybe its the 10 typos Aug 01 00:10:59 :P! Aug 01 00:11:05 :D Aug 01 00:12:21 YAY Aug 01 00:12:25 i really thought the whole dev program was still betra Aug 01 00:12:26 bet Aug 01 00:12:27 Got multiple canvas's working Aug 01 00:12:28 beta Aug 01 00:12:35 * dmkae gots a shit keyboard Aug 01 00:12:37 nope, left beta a short while ago Aug 01 00:12:44 when= Aug 01 00:12:44 ? Aug 01 00:12:55 google it I dont really know Aug 01 00:13:02 i am Aug 01 00:13:32 app catalog went out of beta around the first of the year, so sometime before that Aug 01 00:14:03 man halo reach is gonna be epic Aug 01 00:14:23 just saw some gameplay that had 50+ warthogs in it ;P Aug 01 00:14:27 haha Aug 01 00:15:09 I played halo pc for 7 years. Aug 01 00:15:19 kinda stopped at that Aug 01 00:15:48 i procrastinate so much ive got games that i need to beat that only have abour 1hr played.. and then others that ive beaten but need to play again to unlock something or to get achivements Aug 01 00:16:12 and then ive got apps ive only partially completed Aug 01 00:16:40 but im rocking a HP logo on xbox live ;P Aug 01 00:18:15 awww shit Aug 01 00:18:27 do you need to have paypal to receive payment from selling apps in pre? Aug 01 00:18:31 yes Aug 01 00:18:34 yes Aug 01 00:18:35 not hard to get one Aug 01 00:18:38 right? Aug 01 00:18:41 lol Aug 01 00:18:56 no Aug 01 00:19:02 unless you're outside the usa Aug 01 00:19:05 like i am Aug 01 00:19:11 dun dun dunnnnn Aug 01 00:19:11 realy? Aug 01 00:19:14 PIECE OF SHIT PAYPAL DOESNT WORK Aug 01 00:19:16 yes Aug 01 00:19:17 not internationally friendly? Aug 01 00:19:20 no Aug 01 00:19:21 pretty gay Aug 01 00:19:28 i think they actually hate international people Aug 01 00:19:36 i can only send money with paypal Aug 01 00:19:40 i cant receive money with it Aug 01 00:19:41 call up your american e-buddy and have him set it up and mail you the money lol Aug 01 00:19:51 ill call you Aug 01 00:19:52 :) Aug 01 00:19:59 ok np Aug 01 00:20:02 write me a check every week Aug 01 00:20:03 :) Aug 01 00:20:05 * sugardave once worked at a PayPal facility. "They really hate foreigners." Aug 01 00:20:13 i thought so Aug 01 00:20:26 they have no interest in foreign trade Aug 01 00:20:59 dmkae: tell you what...you give me all the source code for your apps and I will distribute them through my account, and then when Palm pays me your app proceeds, I will gladly write you a check Aug 01 00:20:59 dmkae: you do know eBay owns paypal right? Aug 01 00:21:07 no interest in foreign trade? Aug 01 00:21:41 theres plenty of ebay.* for other countries besides the us Aug 01 00:22:47 yea Aug 01 00:22:49 my game is lightning speed now that I figured out the multiple canvas doohicky trick Aug 01 00:22:51 ebay sucks too Aug 01 00:23:08 * dmkae dont know if i can trust sugardave Aug 01 00:23:15 you cant Aug 01 00:23:21 hah Aug 01 00:23:22 right back atcha Aug 01 00:23:25 :P Aug 01 00:25:09 thats what i thought Aug 01 00:25:21 ok, so im reading the pre development site Aug 01 00:25:36 would anyone here say it's more difficult, less difficult, or about the same to develop for the pre Aug 01 00:25:41 vs. the iphone? Aug 01 00:25:43 we have a love/hate relationship.. he hates that he loves me and i love to hate him :P Aug 01 00:25:47 100x easier Aug 01 00:25:50 really? Aug 01 00:25:52 um yea Aug 01 00:25:59 would have saved us all about an hour if you'd have done that an hour ago Aug 01 00:26:04 for both simple web apps, and more complex ones? Aug 01 00:26:08 lolol Aug 01 00:26:09 :D Aug 01 00:26:14 He did, multiple times, but forgot the answer Aug 01 00:26:15 yea, but im lazy Aug 01 00:26:19 like i said Aug 01 00:26:27 "memento" Aug 01 00:26:30 mori? Aug 01 00:26:44 kevin bacon Aug 01 00:26:55 fuck that shit Aug 01 00:27:11 i almost just watched memento (on netflix) Aug 01 00:27:16 good movie Aug 01 00:27:18 twisted Aug 01 00:27:21 at the end Aug 01 00:27:23 decided on bicentential man (sp?) Aug 01 00:27:36 * dmkae hates shit movies Aug 01 00:27:48 hey, I'm just as trustworthy as the average stranger you just met on the Internet Aug 01 00:27:54 LOL Aug 01 00:28:05 ok, i would trust you with my home keys Aug 01 00:28:36 untrustworthy people aren't allowed on the internet, right? Aug 01 00:28:45 thats what a firewall is for right? Aug 01 00:28:54 thats what the guy at the computer store told me Aug 01 00:29:02 said I needed norton to stop it as well Aug 01 00:29:07 and an extended warranty Aug 01 00:29:11 did you get more GBs and the wifis? Aug 01 00:29:16 yea Aug 01 00:30:17 good man Aug 01 00:30:36 got it to print some money to get an iphone too Aug 01 00:31:45 awesome Aug 01 00:33:31 then I smashed the iphone into 10 pieces infront of everyone lined up to get one, then printed some more money and bought a pre Aug 01 00:34:41 then I sent a tweet about how awesome milkshakes are Aug 01 00:42:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MITfwdmoomY&playnext=1&videos=Ds7DmfBQxPM&feature=grec_index Aug 01 00:43:02 wt Aug 01 00:43:03 ff Aug 01 00:43:06 lawsuit? Aug 01 00:44:50 stealing palms thunder Aug 01 00:45:21 wish i could jailbreak my ipod Aug 01 00:45:55 thats one thing i hate about it.. can only do one thing at a time Aug 01 00:46:38 to use a famous quote "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery" Aug 01 00:47:18 let me propose an alternative quote "imitation is also the most sincere form of copyright infringement" Aug 01 00:47:21 and also a leading contributing source of piss-off Aug 01 00:47:47 did you waatch the link sugardave? Aug 01 00:48:06 I tried...I'm getting no audio right now and my browser started turning gray Aug 01 00:48:10 I could see it though Aug 01 00:48:11 i hate how the noobs still say palm pre instead of webOS Aug 01 00:48:12 yea Aug 01 00:48:13 looks like webOS Aug 01 00:48:27 pretty gay Aug 01 00:48:51 so is that official iOS, or somebody's app that you have to have a jailbreaked iphone to run? Aug 01 00:48:59 homebrew Aug 01 00:50:37 Ok so can anyone explain this, I have a bunch of draw code inside my main game loop, when it's in the loop and is drawn every frame it shows up fine on my bg canvas and the other stuff is drawn on the main canvas just fine. Aug 01 00:50:51 When I take it out of the loop and update it manually when needed, my loop code breaks Aug 01 00:50:56 And my loop stops working Aug 01 00:51:13 No difference, except that code being outsourced to a separate function Aug 01 00:51:32 its all being drawn to their respective canvases in both situations Aug 01 00:51:33 do you need a bind? Aug 01 00:51:38 I have all that Aug 01 00:51:49 I cahnge nothing but the location of the code Aug 01 00:52:03 I even called the function inside thel oo Aug 01 00:52:05 loop Aug 01 00:52:19 To simulate it actually being in the loop Aug 01 00:52:22 And my code breaks Aug 01 00:52:28 no errors Aug 01 00:52:42 no errors? no problem! Aug 01 00:52:46 heh Aug 01 00:54:34 rofl. absolutely dumbfounded. Aug 01 00:55:12 lol dmkae is harassing webos-internals now Aug 01 00:57:23 lol Aug 01 00:59:24 dawm|laptop: you done any canvas work? Aug 01 01:00:09 no Aug 01 01:15:32 ok so no matter what I do I can't get my canvas to sit "under" my html elements. no matter what I do to zindex. wonderful glitchyness we call canvas implementation on webos Aug 01 01:16:36 too bad a canvas can't be used as a div background...that would kick too much ass Aug 01 01:16:46 hmm? Aug 01 01:17:14 What you describe might be possible if you give me enough information Aug 01 01:17:48 no I mean like using a canvas like you would an image as the backgrounf property for a div Aug 01 01:17:54 this is not possible, I think Aug 01 01:17:58 well Aug 01 01:18:10 You can draw to the canvas and put it inside a div Aug 01 01:18:14 and then dont update it Aug 01 01:18:18 the pixels will "stick" Aug 01 01:18:20 thats not what he means tho Aug 01 01:18:28 sure, but if you put other elements in that div, what happens? Aug 01 01:18:38 well if you get the zindex right, they layer Aug 01 01:18:52 right, but if it's a background, then they lay on top of it Aug 01 01:18:53 position: absolute Aug 01 01:19:00 he means something like
Aug 01 01:19:09 dawm|laptop: yeah, that would be cool Aug 01 01:19:21 ok but you can do that, just in a different implementation Aug 01 01:19:29 you can mimic it Aug 01 01:19:33 right Aug 01 01:19:34 albeit not successfully? Aug 01 01:19:35 :P Aug 01 01:19:36 so whats teh problem? Aug 01 01:19:40 No i just got it to work Aug 01 01:20:01 he means if you have the background of the div as the canvas than anything inside the div is ontop of the canvas Aug 01 01:20:02 I have canvas layered underneath html elements Aug 01 01:20:20 without any trickery Aug 01 01:20:21 Or you can have them above html elements Aug 01 01:20:25 well, in that case it is moot, but it would be easier to deal with as a background property instead of absolute div positioning and z-index Aug 01 01:20:27 no trickery. just zindex's Aug 01 01:20:45 sugardave, canvas is just another html element Aug 01 01:20:50 you can move it around like dom Aug 01 01:20:52 yah Aug 01 01:21:07 and just like dom you have to manipulate zindex Aug 01 01:21:12 thats standard html though Aug 01 01:21:13 * sugardave is obviously lazier than you. Aug 01 01:21:41 I'll take the time if I know it's gonna be better in the end. Aug 01 01:22:00 which is why it's taking me this long to get this far. Aug 01 01:22:04 Attention to detail Aug 01 01:26:33 ok so basically when I take this code from my main game loop and place it into a function, it completely breaks my app for no reason, at all Aug 01 01:26:52 Anivrom: impossible Aug 01 01:26:55 so I just kept it in with an if statement Aug 01 01:26:58 there is a reason Aug 01 01:27:00 It sounds impossible Aug 01 01:27:02 But its not Aug 01 01:27:09 There is NO reason. No scope issues nothing Aug 01 01:27:16 mmmhhmmmm Aug 01 01:27:24 the function is in game.js Aug 01 01:27:27 the loop is in game.js Aug 01 01:27:41 the code I'm transferring is just drawImage methods on my bg canvas Aug 01 01:27:45 Which draw fine inside the loop Aug 01 01:27:55 But when put inside a function, break my app and nothing draws Aug 01 01:28:12 that sounds like something is wrong Aug 01 01:28:24 something with a reason Aug 01 01:28:28 Nope Aug 01 01:28:32 :P Aug 01 01:28:32 perhaps a subtle reason Aug 01 01:28:42 it fails on the FIRST draw method Aug 01 01:28:44 maybe a reason that isn't obvious Aug 01 01:28:44 explain that? Aug 01 01:28:55 how does it fail? Aug 01 01:29:00 miserably Aug 01 01:29:04 lol Aug 01 01:29:14 com.mycompany.testapp Uncaught Error: TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR: DOM Exception 17 (app/game.js:1176) Aug 01 01:29:21 it gets all dejected & shit Aug 01 01:29:32 it looks like you have a type mismatch error on line 1176 Aug 01 01:29:44 That error is thrown when it tries to draw from a variable that isnt an image. Aug 01 01:29:50 I think I got that once Aug 01 01:29:52 But I breakpoint and check the variable Aug 01 01:29:54 I was gonna say 1175, but I think sugardave is right Aug 01 01:29:55 And it is an image Aug 01 01:30:21 pastie lines 1170 thru 180 Aug 01 01:30:26 I actually 'am' smart enough to tell when I'm being mocked :P I just dont care Aug 01 01:30:46 #webos is a "no-mock" zone Aug 01 01:30:57 tell that to dmkae ah Aug 01 01:30:58 haha Aug 01 01:31:02 except for haeffb Aug 01 01:31:05 he's fair game Aug 01 01:31:27 game.ctxBG.drawImage(game.enviroment.background[this.enviroment.backgroundState], -1, 0); Aug 01 01:31:27 Aug 01 01:31:32 is the error line. Aug 01 01:31:54 is that in your function? Aug 01 01:31:55 Doesn't matter though I found a workaround Aug 01 01:32:00 No in my loop Aug 01 01:32:00 or the loop Aug 01 01:32:03 Function breaks my app Aug 01 01:33:56 maybe it doesn't like you because you misspelled environment Aug 01 01:34:14 webOS is eco-friendly Aug 01 01:34:17 no, I'm consistent in the typo allthroughout my app Aug 01 01:35:57 * oil had compcache called compache all throughout govnah Aug 01 01:36:11 webOS cares Aug 01 01:36:23 which is how I read it the first 2 weeks I had govnah Aug 01 01:36:32 till I 'actually' read it Aug 01 01:36:37 it was probably misspelt at that point Aug 01 01:43:53 dont worry its par for the course Aug 01 01:44:03 we've got WebOS and the Palm Pixie Aug 01 01:44:30 hell palm internally still calls it pixie (as seen in code comments) Aug 01 01:45:19 haha Aug 01 01:50:53 http://www.codemystics.com/halo2600/ Aug 01 01:50:57 halo on the atari 2600 Aug 01 02:02:51 wait a second...I thought that if you use a list template, that where you put #{listElements} that is where they would go...I have #{listElements}
and an item template of #{blah} Aug 01 02:03:04 I would expect all the tds to be children of tr Aug 01 02:03:08 no Aug 01 02:03:09 but they are siblings Aug 01 02:03:14 the template is the contents of the list item Aug 01 02:03:48 the item template is Aug 01 02:03:57 oh yeah Aug 01 02:04:02 theres a container and an item template Aug 01 02:04:23 what I want is a one-row table and to build the tds with my list Aug 01 02:04:25 its #{-listElements} in my template file Aug 01 02:04:38 yeah, I have that, just left it out here Aug 01 02:04:53 you must be doing something wrong Aug 01 02:04:59 hmmm Aug 01 02:05:02 hold please Aug 01 02:05:38 didnt we go over this with the formatters? Aug 01 02:05:55 lol Aug 01 02:06:14 you dont need container template xD Aug 01 02:08:05 dawm|laptop: here is my stuff, I think they layout is correct: http://webos.pastebin.com/KwUSgnpz Aug 01 02:08:13 oil: how to do a table list without it? Aug 01 02:08:25 remove the -foo? Aug 01 02:08:30 table list? Aug 01 02:08:31 i dont have - in my items tmp Aug 01 02:09:05 my list vars are #{ringtone} Aug 01 02:09:14 but my container is #{-listElements} Aug 01 02:09:35 dawm|laptop: the dash is just 'escape HTML' Aug 01 02:09:38 oh Aug 01 02:09:58 oil: you gave me an idea, though Aug 01 02:09:59 IDIOT Aug 01 02:10:06 you have blah Aug 01 02:10:12 try Aug 01 02:10:14 lol Aug 01 02:10:15 yeah, prefixing with - lets you put html in it Aug 01 02:10:25 oh crap Aug 01 02:10:27 :) Aug 01 02:10:36 let me see what that does with the dom Aug 01 02:10:39 fool Aug 01 02:10:41 should fix it Aug 01 02:10:53 it still renders, but as siblings for td Aug 01 02:10:57 broken Aug 01 02:11:04 sugardave: i have yet to use for a list xD Aug 01 02:11:13 oil: I'm doing an experiment Aug 01 02:11:19 ah Aug 01 02:12:05 unfool Aug 01 02:12:51 bah, still siblings Aug 01 02:12:54 that's weird Aug 01 02:12:59 BUT Aug 01 02:13:18 I bet if I put the table and tr in the scene html and the list widget in there, it should be dom-correct Aug 01 02:14:17 antifool Aug 01 02:17:56 now that is interesting...it renders correctly, but the dom stops at parent and shows none of the tds at all, nor the closing of the tr Aug 01 02:18:05 32 days and I will have TWO phones due for upgrades from Sprint... Aug 01 02:18:13 and nothing to buy Aug 01 02:18:15 I guess doesn't like to have a
in it Aug 01 02:19:32 wtf Aug 01 02:19:52 a big ass ant was walking across the floor (no idea wtf it was doing in my apartment) Aug 01 02:20:03 but it looked big as hell.. like a mini scorpion Aug 01 02:20:09 it's a scout Aug 01 02:20:14 be watchful Aug 01 02:20:14 maybe I will buy a Samsung Epic just for the heck of it. Aug 01 02:20:23 come to find out it was 2, one big one was carrying another big one that was dead or damaged Aug 01 02:20:32 no....don't let it get back to home base! Aug 01 02:20:35 haeffb_: I almost feel that way Aug 01 02:20:48 i got it on a magazine and sent it down the drain ;P Aug 01 02:21:15 pro-tip: ants can crawl up drains Aug 01 02:21:26 better off squashing them Aug 01 02:21:35 not with a ton of hot water running down it Aug 01 02:21:44 with intervals of a full cup of hot water Aug 01 02:21:50 mmm, boiled ants Aug 01 02:22:12 ginormous boiled ants Aug 01 02:23:29 oil: if you simply MUST know....I'm working on a new "Stupid Mojo Trick" Aug 01 02:23:35 not working out too well so far :P Aug 01 02:26:30 whoa Aug 01 02:26:34 hold on a minute Aug 01 02:26:39 it's actually working Aug 01 02:27:05 dev console still shows f-ed up DOM, but it seems to function Aug 01 02:27:28 http://www.weboshelp.net/webos-mojo-development-resources/api-reference/616--mojodragstartdraggingscenecontroller-element-startevent-options-?catid=52%3Amojodrag Aug 01 02:27:31 Very interesting Aug 01 02:29:24 The dragging stuff is screwed up IIRC Aug 01 02:29:33 ah Aug 01 02:29:57 not every drag start has a drag end... unless palm fixed it Aug 01 02:30:11 * sugardave laughs at Tibfib. Aug 01 02:30:13 oh they register drag ends and taps as the end of the drag end Aug 01 02:30:22 * Tibfib wonders why Aug 01 02:30:36 cause sometimes dragend isnt called but it creates a tap event Aug 01 02:32:03 Mojo.Event.listen($("widgetWrapper"), Mojo.Event.dragging, game.draggingHandler.bind(this), true); generates 'target' parameter must be defined.... I thought that's what widgetWrapper is? Aug 01 02:32:36 But when I use mainCanvas element inplace of widgetwrapper it throws no errors Aug 01 02:32:41 it means it can't find widgetWrapper Aug 01 02:32:48 but it's there O_o Aug 01 02:32:54 * sugardave shrugs. Aug 01 02:32:56 that's what it means Aug 01 02:33:19 Anivrom: don't use $ Aug 01 02:33:29 this.controller.get? Aug 01 02:33:34 yarp Aug 01 02:33:35 yeah Aug 01 02:33:36 yes Aug 01 02:33:39 yea! Aug 01 02:33:41 ok Aug 01 02:33:45 YARP! Aug 01 02:33:45 say yeah! Aug 01 02:33:51 yar Aug 01 02:33:55 whah, where's dekan? Aug 01 02:34:14 I was thinking the same thing earlier, was gonna set him up to say things about that dmkae guy Aug 01 02:34:23 * haeffb_ can't remember where I bought the Pixi... Aug 01 02:34:26 maik: ping Aug 01 02:35:04 haeffb_: you mean the pixie Aug 01 02:35:43 wtf tweeted my pastebin and typo? :P Aug 01 02:35:53 fail lol Aug 01 02:35:56 LOL Aug 01 02:36:34 i dont see it Aug 01 02:36:52 there, I retweeted it Aug 01 02:36:56 haha Aug 01 02:36:59 that's strange as hell Aug 01 02:37:17 LOL Aug 01 02:38:51 maybe its a tinyurl bot? Aug 01 02:39:15 they got the text from this channel Aug 01 02:39:26 dun dun dunnnn Aug 01 02:40:10 sugardave: url? Aug 01 02:40:16 (to tweet) Aug 01 02:40:50 http://twitter.com/wfleurant/status/20035114399 Aug 01 02:40:55 never dug into that before Aug 01 02:40:55 neat Aug 01 02:41:53 nice Aug 01 02:41:59 google has twitter in results Aug 01 02:42:43 its all over the place dave Aug 01 02:42:49 http://cubistcode.com/ Aug 01 02:43:00 its in their latest pastebin tweets Aug 01 02:43:01 man, lots of people are going to be disappointed when that doesn't work for them :P Aug 01 02:43:08 which google already has a cache of Aug 01 02:43:43 sugardave: making a Halloween app to go along with YuleLog? Aug 01 02:43:58 that's just what I want people to think Aug 01 02:44:12 lol Aug 01 02:44:49 hey dave.. how does that wfleurant have almost 1000 followers? Aug 01 02:44:58 so, anybody interested in how to make a real horizontally scroller with dynamic List widget? Aug 01 02:45:08 dawm|laptop: I have no idea Aug 01 02:45:11 I have 23 or something Aug 01 02:45:43 all of whom frequent #webos Aug 01 02:45:45 i still dont know where he got your url Aug 01 02:45:51 he's in here Aug 01 02:46:01 oh Aug 01 02:46:06 i dont have a userlist Aug 01 02:46:18 its hidden somewhere and accessed by a keystroke.. stupid mac app Aug 01 02:46:20 21:08 < sugardave> dawm|laptop: here is my stuff, I think they layout is correct: http://webos.pastebin.com/KwUSgnpz Aug 01 02:46:32 lolz Aug 01 02:46:49 there isn't a wfleurant in here, so we don't know who it is Aug 01 02:46:53 BUT THE JIG IS UP! Aug 01 02:47:09 heh Aug 01 02:47:13 isnt this logged? Aug 01 02:47:22 ah, that's true Aug 01 02:47:32 conspiracy averted Aug 01 02:47:34 wonder how this works: http://www.webos.pastebin.com/KuINwnda Aug 01 02:47:42 haha Aug 01 02:47:52 it was deletered Aug 01 02:48:46 looks like I activated the Pixi on 11/24/09 Aug 01 02:48:54 but no records of purchase... Aug 01 02:49:02 what do you mean Aug 01 02:49:09 you dont know where you got it? Aug 01 02:49:23 i know exactly where and when i got my pre :P Aug 01 02:49:33 and how uber of a deal i got on it :P Aug 01 02:49:39 I know where and approximately when Aug 01 02:49:56 http://www.precentral.net/best-buy-selling-pre-99-2-year-contract Aug 01 02:50:00 that day :P Aug 01 02:50:02 heh Aug 01 02:50:14 and i had no idea it happened until i got home Aug 01 02:50:22 i went in cause my mogul died and i wanted them to fix it Aug 01 02:50:43 cause i was out of town (a few states away from home) Aug 01 02:50:58 asked the guy if the price indeed was correct and he said yes, so i went thru with it Aug 01 02:51:05 then got home and found out it was a uber huge mistake :P Aug 01 02:51:36 my ex was with me but didnt get in on the deal, but a week later she bitched and the same store gave her the same deal Aug 01 02:52:42 I got my Pre from Sprint website. Aug 01 02:52:47 In august 09 Aug 01 02:52:59 But no f'ing clue where I bought the Pixi Aug 01 02:53:15 because I got it off-contract Aug 01 02:53:50 sux to be you Aug 01 02:54:05 no shit Aug 01 02:54:25 well im off to beed Aug 01 02:54:43 goodnight Aug 01 02:54:47 haeffb_: why do you need to know where you got it? Aug 01 02:54:54 stupid ipod plug is harder to connect than the pre's Aug 01 02:55:05 dawm|laptop: night Aug 01 02:55:12 peace Aug 01 02:55:14 I don't. But now it's bugging me. Aug 01 02:55:20 Searching my bank statements now. Aug 01 02:55:32 hah Aug 01 02:56:35 amazon f'ing com Aug 01 02:56:46 why don't I have an email...? Aug 01 02:58:56 oh, well. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 01 02:59:57 2010