**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 02:59:57 2010
Aug 24 03:00:36 <sugardave> LoneStar99: why not Firstblah.prototype.sendPty = fiesta.bind(this);  ?
Aug 24 03:04:14 <LoneStar99> sugardave: this works, http://pastebin.com/wYJeHBbU
Aug 24 03:04:38 <Tibfib> goodnight everyone
Aug 24 03:04:48 <LoneStar99> the reason, i want to separate code so my first assistant is not bloated
Aug 24 03:05:35 <sugardave> okay well FirstAssistant.prototyp.sendPty = fiesta.bind(this);
Aug 24 03:05:37 <sugardave> should also work
Aug 24 03:05:42 <LoneStar99> sugardave:  easier to debug
Aug 24 03:07:14 <LoneStar99> sugardave let me try that
Aug 24 03:14:00 <LoneStar99> sugardave: FirstAssistant.prototype.sendPty = fiesta.bind(this){ } causes a syntax error
Aug 24 03:14:39 <sugardave> no
Aug 24 03:14:46 <sugardave> just fiesta.bind(this);
Aug 24 03:15:00 <sugardave> yourPrototypeFunction = fiesta.bind(this);
Aug 24 03:15:25 <sugardave> and then later you should be able to do:  yourPrototypeFunction();
Aug 24 03:16:30 <kesne> Pro-Tip: $() and document are really, really evil
Aug 24 03:18:45 <raghuk>  goodnight everyone
Aug 24 03:24:02 <LoneStar99> sugardave: "FirstAssistant.prototype.sendPty = fiesta.bind(this);"  does not seem to get me anywhere....
Aug 24 03:25:24 <sugardave> lame, best to stick with what works and add it to the "refactor/improve later" list
Aug 24 03:26:37 <LoneStar99> lol
Aug 24 03:26:40 <LoneStar99> yeah
Aug 24 03:28:08 <LoneStar99> thanks for your help
Aug 24 04:56:18 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: Rod, why didn't you join in for the hackathon?  We coulda really used your git-fu.
Aug 24 05:17:01 <kesne> Hey all
Aug 24 05:17:01 <kesne> I've noticed that rwhitby is only around when you least expect it
Aug 24 05:34:24 <kesne> Im out
Aug 24 05:34:24 <kesne> night
Aug 24 05:45:43 <codeslaw> yo
Aug 24 05:45:54 <codeslaw> anyone awake?
Aug 24 05:48:44 <rwhitby> Roy-Pre101: timing was wrong for me
Aug 24 06:31:33 <dhimel> what does "Ecore" mean under the 'errors during make stage' section in the wiki?
Aug 24 06:32:10 <dhimel> I get everything configured & set-up and get a configure error during the last step ..."make stage"
Aug 24 06:34:51 <dhimel> http://webos.pastebin.com/ETACCUy9
Aug 24 08:00:58 <swisstomcat> morning
Aug 24 08:02:06 <Gu1l7y_work> http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/08/23/right-on-time-verizon-phasing-out-pre-plus-storm2-curve-8530/
Aug 24 09:02:18 <warpdesign> morning
Aug 24 09:08:43 <swisstomcat> morning
Aug 24 10:44:32 <swisstomcat> rehi
Aug 24 12:07:10 <swisstomcat> yay
Aug 24 12:07:13 <swisstomcat> Part 1 of my tutorial "Introduction to webOS SDK Development" is now online http://bit.ly/d1fMES
Aug 24 12:15:53 <LoneStar99> morning swisstomcat
Aug 24 12:16:10 <swisstomcat> morning lonestar
Aug 24 12:16:14 <swisstomcat> Part 1 of my tutorial "Introduction to webOS SDK Development" is now online http://bit.ly/d1fMES
Aug 24 12:16:41 <LoneStar99> oh nice, will read it after my doctor appt
Aug 24 12:20:05 <LoneStar99> looks very in depth
Aug 24 12:20:19 <swisstomcat> i hope it does
Aug 24 12:20:25 <swisstomcat> it covers a simple app
Aug 24 12:20:46 <swisstomcat> but part2 will go into creating an app that displays articles from the tutsplus network
Aug 24 12:20:53 <swisstomcat> (my app tuts+)
Aug 24 12:21:12 <swisstomcat> feedback appreciated
Aug 24 12:28:27 <LoneStar99> ok will read it and get back to you, need to take off
Aug 24 12:28:28 <LoneStar99> laters
Aug 24 12:30:20 <damada> Hi, is there a way to reuse and edit a phone number for a next call without adding it as a new contact?
Aug 24 12:31:25 <damada> oh, and also, /me idiot deleted the PDF application because it failed on almost any but the smallest files... and now I can't find it in any app catalog
Aug 24 12:33:14 <swisstomcat> cut and paste should work i assume?
Aug 24 12:33:26 <swisstomcat> for the phone number
Aug 24 12:33:38 <swisstomcat> the pdf viewer comes with webOS, it's not in the catalog
Aug 24 12:42:09 <damada> swisstomcat: so, when I deleted it (because it wasn't in the stock apps list) I am doomed?
Aug 24 12:42:43 <swisstomcat> not doomed but you might have to use the webOS-Doctor
Aug 24 12:52:35 <HattCzech_work> morning, all
Aug 24 12:53:19 <damada> swisstomcat: but doctoring means pretty much a factory reset, right?
Aug 24 12:56:38 <HattCzech_work> who wants to help me troubleshoot phone hardware issues? :)
Aug 24 12:56:58 <HattCzech_work> mine has developed some new features
Aug 24 13:00:29 <Roy-Pre101> swisstomcat: Great!
Aug 24 13:01:10 <Roy-Pre101> rwhitby: I thought you never slept? :)
Aug 24 13:07:43 <swisstomcat> damada: yeah, it's a reset .. except the usb-drive
Aug 24 13:07:58 <swisstomcat> roy-pre101: part 2 is in the works
Aug 24 13:13:57 <Roy-Pre101> I'll read it in depth later and send any comments I have
Aug 24 13:18:29 <swisstomcat> thanks, appreciated
Aug 24 13:18:44 <sugardave> morning
Aug 24 13:18:50 <HattCzech_work> morning, sugardave
Aug 24 13:19:06 <HattCzech_work> anyone want to help me figure out why my phone stopped working?
Aug 24 13:19:20 <sugardave> can't, have to teach class in a bit
Aug 24 13:19:26 <HattCzech_work> the speaker stopped working (the one to listen to calls and such)
Aug 24 13:19:36 <Roy-Pre101> HattCzech: Try a headset and see if it works.
Aug 24 13:19:43 <HattCzech_work> tried that
Aug 24 13:19:48 <HattCzech_work> doesn't work either
Aug 24 13:19:59 <HattCzech_work> and if i plug in the headset when i'm on a call, it instantly hangs up
Aug 24 13:20:36 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: does the phone feel hot?
Aug 24 13:20:46 <HattCzech_work> not so much
Aug 24 13:20:51 <HattCzech_work> right now, no
Aug 24 13:21:06 <HattCzech_work> govnah tells me 37 degC
Aug 24 13:21:13 <HattCzech_work> oh, 35 now
Aug 24 13:21:46 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: sometimes when my Pre Plus is overworked the screen gets overly sensative. Do you find the menu spontantiously dragging up when you're hold the sides sometimes?
Aug 24 13:22:10 <HattCzech_work> nope
Aug 24 13:22:28 <HattCzech_work> usually if i have screen issues, turning off the screen and then back on fixes it
Aug 24 13:23:23 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: yea, do you make sure when you plug in the headset you aren't holding the remote button :-P lol jk.
Aug 24 13:23:38 <HattCzech_work> i wish it were that easy :)
Aug 24 13:24:20 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: does the problem persist after a hard reset?
Aug 24 13:27:48 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: have installed any patches that affect calling such as this one? http://tinyurl.com/2cg629n Are all of those patches updates or are able to update to v1.4?
Aug 24 13:30:15 <HattCzech_work> i haven't tried a hard reset cuz i don't want to deal with that right now
Aug 24 13:30:28 <HattCzech_work> and i don't have a patch that will hang up for me...
Aug 24 13:30:41 <HattCzech_work> but my phone developed a feature similar to that recently :)
Aug 24 13:30:48 <HattCzech_work> when i close it kinda hard, the phone shuts off
Aug 24 13:30:52 <HattCzech_work> so there goes the call :)
Aug 24 13:31:37 <HattCzech_work> anyone know the SDLK keycodes for swipes?
Aug 24 13:32:33 <HattCzech_work> i see 27, 31, 229, and 331
Aug 24 13:32:46 <HattCzech_work> sorry, 231
Aug 24 13:35:42 <swisstomcat> Part 1 of my tutorial "Introduction to webOS SDK Development" is now online http://bit.ly/d1fMES
Aug 24 13:37:57 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: lol yea, I have that problem too occassionally. I think it has to do with pressing it down on a certain spot too hard making the top lose contact with something along the way.
Aug 24 13:38:30 <Ziomatrix> I try to avoid pressing it in the center and pulling it closed too hard.
Aug 24 13:38:57 <HattCzech_work> yeah, i'm going to call sprint and get a replacement sent to me
Aug 24 13:39:08 <Ziomatrix> or I meant that my thumb slides across and is not pressing on the top portion when sliding it
Aug 24 13:39:11 <HattCzech_work> and then i get to have fun with trying to copy over everything :/
Aug 24 13:39:48 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: do you have Save/Restore or use WebOS Doctor to back up?
Aug 24 13:40:07 <HattCzech_work> i use save/restore and pre backup utility
Aug 24 13:40:34 <HattCzech_work> but i'm not sure if pre backup will allow me to transfer call and sms information over
Aug 24 13:40:37 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: have you updates to v1.4.5?
Aug 24 13:40:41 <HattCzech_work> yeah
Aug 24 13:41:24 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: I thought the WebOS Profile usually backs up all your contacts, you can always upload them to your Google Account or MS Outlook, if you use those
Aug 24 13:41:49 <HattCzech_work> oh, contacts aren't a problem
Aug 24 13:41:58 <HattCzech_work> previous sms messages and call logs
Aug 24 13:42:23 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: lucky, one thing I can always count on for VZW is if it isn't about the backend or cell tower coverage they usually move as slow as molasses to update it :-P
Aug 24 13:43:00 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: Save/Restore shows Messages as one of the things it tries to back up while stating its not supported
Aug 24 13:43:12 <HattCzech_work> pre backup utility can restore them
Aug 24 13:43:22 <HattCzech_work> but from what i can tell, that's only on the SAME phone
Aug 24 13:43:26 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: perhaps you should use WebOS Doctor to make an image
Aug 24 13:43:28 <HattCzech_work> i haven't tried to a new phone
Aug 24 13:43:45 <HattCzech_work> ehhh, maybe
Aug 24 13:43:56 <HattCzech_work> i'd like to start somewhat fresh
Aug 24 13:44:32 <HattCzech_work> and i'm not sure if i can make an image... but i haven't tried, either
Aug 24 13:45:21 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: I would really like to know how this works out, so far my Pre Plus has been pretty solid with the exception of some bugs that come along less then occassionally now and how it manages to drain itself while charging if its on Mobile Hotspot for too long
Aug 24 13:47:40 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: you have read this right? http://tinyurl.com/yc8t4dd
Aug 24 13:49:36 <Ziomatrix> HattCzech_work: here is a WebOS Repair Utility: http://tinyurl.com/2fbepnc Its kind of like fixing permissions on Mac OSX or dependancies on Linux.
Aug 24 13:52:48 <Ziomatrix> anyway brb
Aug 24 13:53:48 <HattCzech_work> pdk users... thoughts on the following error when trying to run?: "./simple: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by ./simple)"
Aug 24 14:00:13 <swisstomcat> hattczech: device or desktop?
Aug 24 14:01:34 <HattCzech_work> device
Aug 24 14:02:01 <HattCzech_work> looks like it's one of the source files causing the problem
Aug 24 14:02:10 <HattCzech_work> i've been narrowing it down
Aug 24 14:03:17 <swisstomcat> 1.4.5 device i assume?
Aug 24 14:04:02 <HattCzech_work> yup
Aug 24 14:04:57 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, rfbproto.c is causing the problem
Aug 24 14:07:55 <Ziomatrix> who wants to bet VZW will phase out the Pre and Pixi Plus before releasing a v1.4.5 update for it: http://tinyurl.com/26qea75 Its a way of writing a "I screw you letter to WebOS customers" informing them they should just buy a new Droid. :-(
Aug 24 14:08:36 <swisstomcat> yeah, that seems strange
Aug 24 14:08:50 <swisstomcat> but there were also rumours of a new palm device for VZW
Aug 24 14:09:02 <swisstomcat> who knows
Aug 24 14:12:39 <funkatron> Roy-Pre101: ROY. ROY ROY ROY
Aug 24 14:13:16 <Roy-Pre101> funkatron: Ed, ed, fo-fed.
Aug 24 14:13:21 <funkatron> nailed it
Aug 24 14:13:35 <funkatron> Roy-Pre101: how do you read data programatically out of appinfo.json in your app?
Aug 24 14:13:59 <Roy-Pre101> ah, quite easily, it's pulled in automatically, but if it wasn't you could do a local ajax request against the file.
Aug 24 14:14:06 <Roy-Pre101> You access it from:
Aug 24 14:15:28 <Roy-Pre101> Mojo.appInfo
Aug 24 14:15:35 <funkatron> ah-hah
Aug 24 14:15:40 <funkatron> awesome, thanks
Aug 24 14:15:42 <Roy-Pre101> Additionally, you can put -anything- into the appinfo
Aug 24 14:15:48 <funkatron> sweeeet
Aug 24 14:15:57 <Roy-Pre101> So it'll be pulled in there.
Aug 24 14:16:12 <Roy-Pre101> I was using it to check for beta vs. paid on one of my apps.
Aug 24 14:35:14 <funkatron> Roy, thanks, that's perfect.
Aug 24 14:35:37 <funkatron> I was able to stop using this old supportinfo.json file
Aug 24 14:36:16 <funkatron> Also Roy-Pre101: how are you handling beta vs public versions? are you swapping out different appinfo.json files when you package? do you automate this stuff?
Aug 24 14:37:54 <swisstomcat> i have two directories, one for production and one from beta .. but my apps differ e.g the beta version doesn't have a registration screen
Aug 24 14:37:56 <HattCzech_work> "./simple: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by ./simple)" any pdk users have thoughts on that?
Aug 24 14:38:38 <swisstomcat> http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=8376&hilit=glibc
Aug 24 14:38:59 <swisstomcat> 1) try adding -lstdc++ to your link line to make the linker use the local copy.
Aug 24 14:39:00 <swisstomcat> 2) if that doesn't work, use scp to copy the .so files for the C and C++ libraries off the device and put those in the link path
Aug 24 14:39:48 <swisstomcat> Looking on 1.4.5, the libraries on device are from the 2007q3 release. Try downloading and using the tools fromhttp://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite/a ... release313 and see if that resolves your problem
Aug 24 14:40:02 <swisstomcat> (http://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/release313)
Aug 24 14:40:21 <swisstomcat> >I downloaded the latest package available at the time (2010-q1-202). I now downloaded the 2007-q3 release -- and it simply works. Binaries now run OK on the device.
Aug 24 14:41:14 <HattCzech_work> thanks swisstomcat
Aug 24 14:43:42 <HattCzech_work> interesting that i have to get an OLDER version for it to work :/
Aug 24 14:46:18 <HattCzech_work> MUCH older
Aug 24 14:51:05 <Roy-Pre101> funkatron: With one app, I'm just editing them manually as I have no build on that one.
Aug 24 14:51:23 <Roy-Pre101> The other one we're going to migrate to published and not bother with beta after that.
Aug 24 14:51:30 <funkatron> I just *know* I'll upload the wrong file sometime
Aug 24 15:00:23 <swisstomcat> bbl
Aug 24 15:01:00 <Roy-Pre101> funkatron: Yes, I need to have a build script.  I just haven't done it yet.
Aug 24 15:03:34 <codeslaw_> yo yo yo
Aug 24 15:09:29 <codeslaw_> anyone around that wouldn't mind helping me with a german, french, and/or spanish translation?
Aug 24 15:19:04 <codeslaw_> some one gave me a 0 star review for using google translate
Aug 24 15:20:28 <maik> haha, lame
Aug 24 15:20:37 <maik> not to laugh at your pain or anything
Aug 24 15:20:47 <codeslaw_> no worries, i laughed myself
Aug 24 15:21:03 <codeslaw_> followed by fits of rage towards ungrateful consumers
Aug 24 15:21:36 <maik> ya, i got that way about Emergency Lights, then i remembered i only spent a few hours on it and have closed to 700 downloads
Aug 24 15:21:48 <codeslaw_> indeed
Aug 24 15:22:20 <maik> maybe i'll work on that today
Aug 24 15:22:54 <maik> er, you know, in between real work
Aug 24 15:23:03 <codeslaw_> oh i know
Aug 24 15:24:17 <maik> i may have broken my emulator...
Aug 24 15:24:25 <maik> this is all your fault
Aug 24 15:24:38 * codeslaw_ hides the fistful of ripped cables
Aug 24 15:24:40 <codeslaw_> WHAT?!?!
Aug 24 15:24:43 <codeslaw_> ME??!
Aug 24 15:25:01 <maik> with your "tablets are cool!  change the resolution! shunnnnnnnn"
Aug 24 15:26:51 <HattCzech_work> shuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn... nnnnnnn!
Aug 24 15:27:10 <maik> so how do i kill the emulator and start fresh?
Aug 24 15:27:24 <maik> because palm-emulator --remove "SDK 1.4.5.465 (320x480)" says SDK 1.4.5.465 (320x480) is not removable
Aug 24 15:29:09 <maik> oh.  it works fine starting via VirtualBox
Aug 24 15:29:10 <maik> meh
Aug 24 15:35:04 <discombobulate> hrm
Aug 24 15:40:42 <digitalpowers> good morning everyone
Aug 24 15:42:05 <maik> morning
Aug 24 15:42:08 <maik> guess what
Aug 24 15:42:20 <halfhalo> you got fired?
Aug 24 15:42:23 <digitalpowers> what what
Aug 24 15:42:27 <maik> i got that motorcycle
Aug 24 15:42:34 * maik air guitar power riff
Aug 24 15:42:36 <digitalpowers> nice! did you ride it to work today?
Aug 24 15:42:44 <maik> no, sir, i need my endorsement still
Aug 24 15:42:53 <maik> i _reallllllllllly_ want to ride it down for lunch today
Aug 24 15:42:55 <digitalpowers> but but ... you are the law
Aug 24 15:42:58 <maik> but cinn would destroy city
Aug 24 15:43:08 <maik> heh, it's thinking like that that gets you in trouble
Aug 24 15:43:12 <maik> believe me sir, i entertained the idea :)
Aug 24 15:43:18 <digitalpowers> ok now for my guess what
Aug 24 15:43:20 <digitalpowers> Guess What!?
Aug 24 15:43:24 <maik> what what
Aug 24 15:43:46 <digitalpowers> My game (Shape Sorter) made it onto the App Catelog today!
Aug 24 15:43:54 <maik> No way!
Aug 24 15:44:00 <maik> I shall buy and review it post-haste!
Aug 24 15:44:03 <digitalpowers> yes way!
Aug 24 15:44:04 <maik> Done!
Aug 24 15:44:12 <digitalpowers> haha
Aug 24 15:45:30 <discombobulate> nice
Aug 24 15:46:29 <maik> i miss my deployment environment :(
Aug 24 15:46:39 <maik> digitalpowers: can has wc-cast plz?
Aug 24 15:46:40 <digitalpowers> that is what you get for using macs
Aug 24 15:46:53 <maik> ...
Aug 24 15:47:00 <maik> we have a huge VMware deployment
Aug 24 15:47:02 <codeslaw_> i use macs
Aug 24 15:47:15 <maik> with many-a-Windows server
Aug 24 15:47:19 <maik> Server*
Aug 24 15:48:04 <discombobulate> damn hateful users and their 0 star ratings
Aug 24 15:51:13 <halfhalo> hmmm
Aug 24 15:51:20 <halfhalo> what laptop should I bring to class today
Aug 24 15:51:29 <halfhalo> T400 or netbook thingy
Aug 24 15:52:20 <halfhalo> On one hand, I completely and utterly hate the netbooks kb, but on the other hand, it has linux on it
Aug 24 15:52:43 <halfhalo> And is suprisingly fast to boot for a 5400rpm drive
Aug 24 15:53:54 <halfhalo> While the T400 has an awesome KB and a SSD and is almost charged, and may/may not have linux in a vm right now
Aug 24 16:00:12 <halfhalo> HP printer is being retarted
Aug 24 16:02:54 <HattCzech_work> do i need to link my sources in any specific order to maintain references?
Aug 24 16:03:23 <HattCzech_work> simple.cpp:(.text+0x618): undefined reference to `func(int, char**)'
Aug 24 16:05:03 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, this is somewhat irritating
Aug 24 16:15:42 <digitalpowers> HattCzech_work definitions to functions should be handled in headers, that way each source knows the functions defined in all the sources it includes headers for
Aug 24 16:17:20 <HattCzech_work> yeah, and i've got it included, which is why i'm confused
Aug 24 16:17:23 <HattCzech_work> i put it in the header
Aug 24 16:17:29 <HattCzech_work> included the header
Aug 24 16:17:36 <HattCzech_work> but it doesn't seem to find it
Aug 24 16:18:00 <digitalpowers> does the header have a definition for func(int,char**)
Aug 24 16:18:35 <HattCzech_work> yeah
Aug 24 16:18:43 <HattCzech_work> extern int func(blah);
Aug 24 16:30:15 <egaudet> undefined reference is not a compile-time error
Aug 24 16:30:17 <egaudet> it's link-time
Aug 24 16:32:58 <HattCzech_work> i know
Aug 24 16:33:05 <HattCzech_work> but i've got them all linked in the sources
Aug 24 16:33:10 <egaudet> so the header won't have anything to do with that error
Aug 24 16:35:42 <egaudet> where is func ?
Aug 24 16:37:23 <egaudet> if it's in a static library the library has to be linked AFTER simple.o or some other object references func()
Aug 24 16:38:47 <HattCzech_work> i have func in func.c and extern func in func.h
Aug 24 16:39:15 <HattCzech_work> in my build statement... i have...
Aug 24 16:39:40 <HattCzech_work> ..\src\simple.cpp ..\src\func.c
Aug 24 16:40:02 <HattCzech_work> i tried moving simple.cpp after func.c, but that didn't work
Aug 24 16:40:43 <egaudet> what does your link line look like
Aug 24 16:41:42 <HattCzech_work> i'm not sure what the link line is... you want the whole statement?
Aug 24 16:42:36 <egaudet> try extern "C"  block
Aug 24 16:44:02 <HattCzech_work> what do you mean?
Aug 24 16:44:27 <egaudet> in your func.h
Aug 24 16:45:05 <egaudet> #ifdef __cplusplus
Aug 24 16:45:07 <egaudet> extern "C" {
Aug 24 16:45:08 <egaudet> #endif
Aug 24 16:45:10 <egaudet> at the top
Aug 24 16:45:25 <egaudet> #ifdef __cplusplus
Aug 24 16:45:26 <egaudet> }
Aug 24 16:45:27 <egaudet> #endif
Aug 24 16:45:28 <egaudet> at the bottom
Aug 24 16:46:01 <egaudet> Tells the c++ compiler that you are declaring C functions
Aug 24 16:46:47 <HattCzech_work> do i still do the same "extern int func(void);" in there?
Aug 24 16:47:17 <HattCzech_work> oh, now i got a "Fatal: Server unexpectedly closed network connection"
Aug 24 16:48:57 <egaudet> it doesn't have to be extern but yes
Aug 24 16:49:42 <egaudet> what toolchain/system are you using? and what does the g++ commands look like?
Aug 24 16:50:54 <HattCzech_work> arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc  -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -o simple ..\src\func.c ..\src\simple.cpp "-IC:\Program Files\Palm\PDK\include" "-IC:\Program Files\Palm\PDK\include\SDL" "-LC:\Program Files\Palm\PDK\device\lib" -Wl,--allow-shlib-undefined -lSDL -lGLES_CM -lpdl
Aug 24 16:51:20 <codeslaw_> anyone on who can do french german or spanish translations?
Aug 24 16:52:18 <egaudet> oh you are using gcc to compile c++
Aug 24 16:52:21 <egaudet> use g++
Aug 24 16:53:34 <HattCzech_work> just change gcc to g++?
Aug 24 16:53:55 <egaudet> yeah
Aug 24 16:54:33 <HattCzech_work> now i get lots of errors... yay!
Aug 24 16:56:12 <HattCzech_work> ummm... that doesn't seem right
Aug 24 16:56:44 <HattCzech_work> should i have more errors now?
Aug 24 16:57:53 <egaudet> if there are errors to have you should have them hehe
Aug 24 16:58:05 <HattCzech_work> well, using gcc, no errors
Aug 24 16:58:12 <HattCzech_work> using g++, plenty of errors
Aug 24 16:58:36 <egaudet> no errors doesn't mean it's correct.  gcc is a C compiler, it is not going to correctly compiling C++ code
Aug 24 16:58:49 <egaudet> s/compiling/compile/
Aug 24 16:58:51 <HattCzech_work> i think the only cpp code i have is my simple.cpp
Aug 24 16:59:23 <HattCzech_work> the rest are all c
Aug 24 16:59:42 <HattCzech_work> and i get errors on the c files when using the c++ compiler
Aug 24 17:00:12 <egaudet> "i get errors" doesn't really tell me anything
Aug 24 17:00:28 <HattCzech_work> one sec
Aug 24 17:00:51 <HattCzech_work> "error: invalid conversion from 'void*' to 'char*'"
Aug 24 17:01:05 <HattCzech_work> "error: 'time' was not declared in this scope"
Aug 24 17:01:31 <egaudet> all from simple.cpp?
Aug 24 17:01:34 <HattCzech_work> "warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'"
Aug 24 17:01:42 <HattCzech_work> no, these are from the other c file
Aug 24 17:02:14 <HattCzech_work> (in addition to: "error: 'func' was not declared in this scope")
Aug 24 17:03:24 <HattCzech_work> so i'm obviously doing something wrong when trying to define the function
Aug 24 17:03:32 <HattCzech_work> unfortunately, it's not obvious to me
Aug 24 17:03:47 <egaudet> pastebin if you want me to take a look
Aug 24 17:07:04 <egaudet> did you do the extern "C" in func.h I mentioned?
Aug 24 17:07:47 <HattCzech_work> yeah
Aug 24 17:07:59 <HattCzech_work> it gave me that fatal error above
Aug 24 17:08:43 <egaudet> when using g++?
Aug 24 17:10:21 <HattCzech_work> http://webos.pastebin.com/acwC5Cct
Aug 24 17:10:38 <HattCzech_work> oh, not sure with g++
Aug 24 17:11:56 <HattCzech_work> that seemed to work
Aug 24 17:12:10 <HattCzech_work> so maybe i need to do that with all of my files
Aug 24 17:13:28 <HattCzech_work> but i'm starving, so lunch time, then i'll be back
Aug 24 17:14:15 <egaudet> you need the extern "C" {} wrapper in the headers that declare C functions
Aug 24 17:30:45 <Tibfib> haha, guess what class I'm taking? webpage design! (high school, idiot-proof version)
Aug 24 17:35:32 <Tibfib> in other news, astraware's sudoku app is slick
Aug 24 17:46:40 <HattCzech_lunch> egaudet: this c++ compiler irritates me
Aug 24 17:46:46 <HattCzech_lunch> it gives me errors that don't exist with the regular compiler
Aug 24 17:46:57 <jkovacs> evenin'
Aug 24 17:47:24 <HattCzech_lunch> afternoon*
Aug 24 17:47:29 <HattCzech_lunch> :)
Aug 24 17:48:15 <jkovacs> chuqui: Hey there are some errors on this new page of yours: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2103&Itemid=24 (wrong email at waverly software, wrong url at sourcen, wrong url at blueswitch). Also, what requirements are there to get oneself listed on there?
Aug 24 17:48:45 <jkovacs> Wrong URL on Beeweb, too
Aug 24 17:49:11 <Tibfib> dang, goodrec is taking over
Aug 24 17:49:21 <chuqui> jkovacs: send me email on getting on the page. I'll alert the writers about the errors and have them flogged.
Aug 24 17:49:34 <HattCzech_lunch> egaudet: does it matter that i changed the name of the function in the c file from main to something else?
Aug 24 17:49:39 <jkovacs> maybe I will :) thanks
Aug 24 17:50:02 <HattCzech_lunch> chuqui: who handles interactive test results?
Aug 24 17:50:10 <Tibfib> jkovacs: I'll send you one as well :)
Aug 24 17:50:13 <Tibfib> dangit
Aug 24 17:50:14 <HattCzech_lunch> (when i "send results to palm")
Aug 24 17:50:15 <Tibfib> @ chuqui
Aug 24 17:50:17 <jkovacs> :p
Aug 24 17:50:25 <Tibfib> jkovacs: I can send you an email if you want :)
Aug 24 17:50:47 <jkovacs> whoo :)
Aug 24 17:57:52 <halfhalo_pre> wtfbbq csun
Aug 24 18:02:07 <HattCzech_lunch> okay, this is annoying
Aug 24 18:02:39 <HattCzech_work> how do i add an outside function (from a c and h file)?
Aug 24 18:09:29 <codeslaw_> anyone around that can do a quick translation for me? german/french/spanish
Aug 24 18:09:40 <codeslaw_> i'll trade for graphic work, which there seems to be a high demand of
Aug 24 18:10:22 <HattCzech_work> codeslaw_: you're playing with pdk, right?
Aug 24 18:10:28 <codeslaw_> ya
Aug 24 18:10:31 <codeslaw_> my app launched!
Aug 24 18:10:47 <codeslaw_> updating today
Aug 24 18:10:54 <HattCzech_work> i'm trying to do something simple: include a function from another file
Aug 24 18:10:58 <codeslaw_> ok
Aug 24 18:11:03 <HattCzech_work> awesome, cograts
Aug 24 18:11:09 <codeslaw_> ty
Aug 24 18:11:17 <HattCzech_work> i've got the function in the c file and the extern in the h file
Aug 24 18:11:37 <HattCzech_work> and i get "undefined reference to `funcTest()'" at link time
Aug 24 18:11:57 <codeslaw_> hhmm
Aug 24 18:12:23 <HattCzech_work> i'm trying it for something REALLY simple...
Aug 24 18:12:32 <HattCzech_work> int funcTest(void) { return 1; }
Aug 24 18:12:33 <jkovacs> do both files include the .h ?
Aug 24 18:12:42 <codeslaw_> they should
Aug 24 18:12:43 <HattCzech_work> ohhhh... no, they do not...
Aug 24 18:12:49 <HattCzech_work> interesting
Aug 24 18:12:57 <codeslaw_> never include a cpp (or c) file
Aug 24 18:13:41 <HattCzech_work> i'm not including a c file
Aug 24 18:13:43 <HattCzech_work> only the h
Aug 24 18:13:50 <HattCzech_work> i wasn't including the h in the c, though
Aug 24 18:13:59 <codeslaw_> yes
Aug 24 18:14:03 <codeslaw_> did that fix it?
Aug 24 18:14:11 <HattCzech_work> (i wasn't including the func.h in the func.c file)
Aug 24 18:14:16 <HattCzech_work> no, it didn't
Aug 24 18:14:17 <codeslaw_> gotcha
Aug 24 18:14:18 <HattCzech_work> :/
Aug 24 18:14:25 <Tibfib> http://www.precentral.net/app-gallery/app-catalog/angry-birds
Aug 24 18:14:45 <codeslaw_> its out?
Aug 24 18:14:57 <codeslaw_> i hope they DONT release the demo
Aug 24 18:15:11 <Tibfib> it's coming SOON
Aug 24 18:15:19 <Tibfib> it's in the feed, just need to wait for the catalog
Aug 24 18:15:28 <codeslaw_> its the only iphone game i give a shit about
Aug 24 18:15:28 <HattCzech_work> they'll definitely hit #1 if they do :/
Aug 24 18:15:35 <codeslaw_> they might hit #1 paid
Aug 24 18:16:00 <Tibfib> they might? I'd say there is a very good chance
Aug 24 18:16:13 <codeslaw_> ya
Aug 24 18:16:16 <halfhalo_T400> Oh god this class sucks
Aug 24 18:16:19 <halfhalo_T400> epicly sucks
Aug 24 18:16:27 <HattCzech_work> ohhh, then i don't care if they release the demo :)
Aug 24 18:16:30 <codeslaw_> what class
Aug 24 18:16:39 <Tibfib> I want a pdk tower defense game
Aug 24 18:16:45 <halfhalo_T400> Geology 101
Aug 24 18:16:51 <Tibfib> and a rpg
Aug 24 18:16:53 <Tibfib> halfhalo: nice
Aug 24 18:17:25 <jkovacs> java time :(
Aug 24 18:17:54 <halfhalo_T400> herm... outlook has a corrupted profile...
Aug 24 18:18:34 <maik> i just fought with a win98 machine to try and get it authing to the domain again (after it broke somehow) and now the guy says not to worry about it
Aug 24 18:18:39 * maik destroy city
Aug 24 18:18:48 <halfhalo_T400> heh
Aug 24 18:19:20 <Tibfib> whoa, rovio has made a ton of games http://www.rovio.com/index.php?page=games
Aug 24 18:19:38 <Tibfib> I
Aug 24 18:19:43 <halfhalo_T400> oh, heh, forgot how crap wifi is here
Aug 24 18:19:46 <Tibfib> wonder if any of the other ones are good
Aug 24 18:20:02 <maik> http://galaxytab.samsungmobile.com/
Aug 24 18:20:26 <HattCzech_work> codeslaw_: http://webos.pastebin.com/ydyTt4sU
Aug 24 18:20:35 <HattCzech_work> is there something i'm missing?
Aug 24 18:20:59 <Tibfib> maik: I want
Aug 24 18:21:06 <codeslaw_> HattCzech_work: yes
Aug 24 18:21:16 <Tibfib> w/ webOS and a bigger screen
Aug 24 18:21:20 <maik> it looks hot, but i'm still not sold on the tablet idea
Aug 24 18:21:22 <HattCzech_work> hehehe, i know that... do you know what it is? :)
Aug 24 18:21:27 <swisstomcat> evening
Aug 24 18:21:33 <codeslaw_> as far as i know, that is not the proper use of the extern modifier
Aug 24 18:21:33 <HattCzech_work> hey swisstomcat
Aug 24 18:21:38 <swisstomcat> we want angry birds .. we want angry birds .. we want angry birds :)
Aug 24 18:21:42 <codeslaw_> and you don't need extern anyway
Aug 24 18:21:55 <HattCzech_work> ohhh
Aug 24 18:21:57 <codeslaw_> swisstomcat: !!! can i bug you for a french/german translation?
Aug 24 18:21:58 <maik> in soviet russia extern uses you improperly
Aug 24 18:22:06 <jkovacs> HattCzech: Also, add a #pragma once to the top of your .h file
Aug 24 18:22:07 <halfhalo_T400> lol
Aug 24 18:22:11 <swisstomcat> go ahead: codeslaw
Aug 24 18:22:23 <HattCzech_work> jkovacs: what is #pragma for?
Aug 24 18:22:30 <maik> so i says to him #pragma?  damn near killed 'im!
Aug 24 18:22:49 <jkovacs> it's an alternative to include guards (which you're missing, yet)
Aug 24 18:23:14 <codeslaw_> HattCzech_work: change func.h to be::   using namespace std;  int functest();
Aug 24 18:23:51 <jkovacs> HattCzech_work: Also (not related to your issue), you should add an SDL_Delay() call in your loop
Aug 24 18:24:54 <swisstomcat> go ahead, codeslaw
Aug 24 18:24:54 <codeslaw_> no real reason to use C as opposed to c++ for that
Aug 24 18:25:16 <HattCzech_work> "error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'namespace'"
Aug 24 18:25:37 <HattCzech_work> the source i have is c
Aug 24 18:25:47 <HattCzech_work> i'm trying to use it in the app i'm making
Aug 24 18:26:07 <HattCzech_work> i was trying to modify as little as possible
Aug 24 18:26:30 <codeslaw_> ah
Aug 24 18:27:49 <swisstomcat> btw: Part 1 of my tutorial "Introduction to webOS SDK Development" is now online http://bit.ly/d1fMES
Aug 24 18:28:05 <codeslaw_> HattCzech_work: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/mixing-c-and-cpp.html
Aug 24 18:29:43 <HattCzech_work> urg
Aug 24 18:29:59 <HattCzech_work> egaudet mentioned the extern "C" thing earlier...
Aug 24 18:30:04 <HattCzech_work> but then i get "Fatal: Server unexpectedly closed network connection"
Aug 24 18:30:21 <codeslaw_> wtf?
Aug 24 18:30:29 <egaudet> HattCzech_work: you have to use g++ and have to use extern "C"
Aug 24 18:30:40 <codeslaw_> this is true
Aug 24 18:31:00 <egaudet> you can't use gcc to link C++ code and you need extern "C" wrapper to declare C functions when using g++ compiler
Aug 24 18:31:02 <HattCzech_work> jeebus this is complicated
Aug 24 18:32:00 <swisstomcat> hehe ... i'm staying with the SDK
Aug 24 18:32:22 <HattCzech_work> egaudet: what is the simplest way for me to get this working?
Aug 24 18:32:32 <Tibfib> NOOO
Aug 24 18:32:33 <HattCzech_work> convert simple.cpp to c?
Aug 24 18:32:37 <Tibfib> can't buy angry birds
Aug 24 18:32:44 <egaudet> it should't be copmlicated and should work fine
Aug 24 18:32:47 <Tibfib> dannnnnnngggggggggit
Aug 24 18:32:51 <egaudet> that network error is not compiler
Aug 24 18:32:56 <egaudet> i don't know wtf that is
Aug 24 18:33:05 <codeslaw_> HattCzech_work: wtf from me as well
Aug 24 18:33:12 <HattCzech_work> :/
Aug 24 18:33:33 <HattCzech_work> okay, if simple.cpp was simple.c, could i link properly with gcc?
Aug 24 18:33:35 <egaudet> HattCzech_work: what is the ENTIRE output of the command not just the error
Aug 24 18:33:35 <swisstomcat> tibfib: it's in the catalog already?
Aug 24 18:33:47 <egaudet> HattCzech_work: if it was C code and not C++ code yes
Aug 24 18:33:50 <codeslaw_> swisstomcat: yes
Aug 24 18:33:55 <egaudet> you can't just rename the file to .c though
Aug 24 18:34:04 <codeslaw_> but i am getting "Purchased Failed" errors
Aug 24 18:34:08 <codeslaw_> NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Aug 24 18:34:09 <swisstomcat> :/
Aug 24 18:34:10 <swisstomcat> dang
Aug 24 18:34:24 <Tibfib> I konw
Aug 24 18:34:25 <swisstomcat> watch it shoot to the top of hotapps in just a few days
Aug 24 18:34:27 <Tibfib> know*
Aug 24 18:34:32 <Tibfib> If anyone can buy it!
Aug 24 18:34:44 <Tibfib> I just bought astraware's sudoku like 20 mins ago
Aug 24 18:34:53 <swisstomcat> i can't even see it in the catalog
Aug 24 18:34:54 <Tibfib> I think they pushed angry birds ridiculously fast
Aug 24 18:35:03 <Tibfib> payment isn't set up or something
Aug 24 18:35:04 <HattCzech_work> I'M AN IDIOT! ARGH!
Aug 24 18:35:23 <swisstomcat> tibfib: after the played .. ahem .. tested it all day
Aug 24 18:35:31 <HattCzech_work> egaudet: the network thing was me trying to copy it to my phone when my phone isn't plugged in :)
Aug 24 18:35:31 <Tibfib> hah, no kidding
Aug 24 18:35:33 <codeslaw_> ya
Aug 24 18:35:34 <HattCzech_work> brilliant
Aug 24 18:35:42 <egaudet> lol
Aug 24 18:36:01 <egaudet> well that means compiling/linking worked
Aug 24 18:36:03 <codeslaw_> gotta love that "nothing to do with this" error
Aug 24 18:36:23 <swisstomcat> >Go get it, folks: Angry Birds for webOS has hit the catalog http://bit.ly/driuVh
Aug 24 18:36:31 <Tibfib> No it hasn't!
Aug 24 18:36:38 <Tibfib> well, you can't get it yet... :(
Aug 24 18:37:07 <sugardave> can someone verify that openDatabase('dbname', x) will infact open new dbs with various x "versions"
Aug 24 18:37:23 <sugardave> because I think it is broken
Aug 24 18:37:53 <swisstomcat> did not test the version yet
Aug 24 18:38:12 <sugardave> I think it used to work
Aug 24 18:38:26 <sugardave> I used to have multiple xxxxxxxxxxxx.db files for an app
Aug 24 18:39:06 <bmyers> i dont think it works like that
Aug 24 18:39:14 <sugardave> apparently not
Aug 24 18:39:20 <sugardave> but I think it used to
Aug 24 18:39:25 <sugardave> the docs are sort of unclear
Aug 24 18:39:28 <bmyers> did you look at the value of x after you opened it?
Aug 24 18:39:39 <sugardave> "if it doesn't exist, it will be created"
Aug 24 18:39:46 <bmyers> i think what is does is TELL you the version of the db it opened
Aug 24 18:39:58 <sugardave> "if name and version don't match" an error will be returned
Aug 24 18:40:18 <sugardave> but it stores the first version I tried to open with: 1.0
Aug 24 18:40:27 <bmyers> yeah but i thought there was some feedback so you could
Aug 24 18:40:27 <swisstomcat> i think i saw a code example where a update to the table structure was ran when the version mismatched
Aug 24 18:40:31 <sugardave> in __WebKitblahblahblah__
Aug 24 18:40:32 <HattCzech_work> okay, cool
Aug 24 18:40:48 <HattCzech_work> i can put the extern "C" around the header #include line
Aug 24 18:40:51 <swisstomcat> where is angry birds .. where is angry birds .. where is angry birds
Aug 24 18:40:56 <HattCzech_work> instead of in the header
Aug 24 18:41:00 <bmyers> check to see what db version an app ran and update it if need be
Aug 24 18:41:18 <sugardave> hmmm...will have to figure this out later, work calls
Aug 24 18:41:24 <Tibfib> Dannnnnngggggggggggit.
Aug 24 18:41:27 * Tibfib wants angry birds
Aug 24 18:41:36 <bmyers> yeah check the value of x after opening the db
Aug 24 18:41:52 <bmyers> i think it'll say the number that you created the db with in the first place
Aug 24 18:42:43 <egaudet> HattCzech_work: you can wrap any C code anywhere with it.  It's customary to put it at the top of C header files with the __cplusplus macro so that either c or c++ compilers can use the header properly
Aug 24 18:42:49 <codeslaw_> hey what's the deal with the "New in this version:" field in the app catalog update page?
Aug 24 18:43:36 <swisstomcat> same as with the dock mode enabled? a test
Aug 24 18:43:58 <Tibfib> no one knows. not even palm!
Aug 24 18:44:03 <HattCzech_work> egaudet: for my headers i would do that, but since they're not mine, i don't want to play with it much
Aug 24 18:44:09 <HattCzech_work> except for commenting out things i don't need
Aug 24 18:46:40 <swisstomcat> dammit, i can't get angry birds .. my VZW phone is at 1.4.1 :(
Aug 24 18:47:15 <Tibfib> swisstomcat: you in early access?
Aug 24 18:47:16 <HattCzech_work> verizon!? why!?
Aug 24 18:47:34 <swisstomcat> hattczech: the dev phone i got from palm
Aug 24 18:47:35 <HattCzech_work> (it is a plus, so that's good)
Aug 24 18:47:40 <swisstomcat> tibfib: good point
Aug 24 18:47:52 <HattCzech_work> why didn't they give you a gsm one?
Aug 24 18:48:11 <swisstomcat> yeah, good question :)
Aug 24 18:48:39 <HattCzech_work> my dev phone = my real phone
Aug 24 18:48:42 <HattCzech_work> makes it hard to play :/
Aug 24 18:48:53 <Tibfib> HattCzech: same
Aug 24 18:49:00 <swisstomcat> i have 5 phones :=)
Aug 24 18:49:22 <Tibfib> whoa. I'm getting another in the next day or so... probably gonna sell it
Aug 24 18:49:32 <swisstomcat> anyone interested in a gsm pre?
Aug 24 18:49:37 <HattCzech_work> swisstomcat: send some my way :)
Aug 24 18:49:53 <HattCzech_work> i'll take it
Aug 24 18:49:56 <swisstomcat> unlocked gsm pre?
Aug 24 18:49:59 <swisstomcat> sure
Aug 24 18:50:06 <Tibfib> wait, free?
Aug 24 18:50:11 <Tibfib> I want one! :)
Aug 24 18:50:14 <swisstomcat> heh
Aug 24 18:50:18 <swisstomcat> not free .. but cheap
Aug 24 18:50:21 <HattCzech_work> hey, Tibfib! hands off! you got one free already ;)
Aug 24 18:50:38 <HattCzech_work> how much is cheap?
Aug 24 18:50:43 <HattCzech_work> shipping? :)
Aug 24 18:50:44 <swisstomcat> if you port a PDK App, you can get free devices from palm
Aug 24 18:50:54 <HattCzech_work> yeah, i'm trying
Aug 24 18:51:01 <HattCzech_work> proving to be difficult :)
Aug 24 18:51:02 <Tibfib> no kidding. where's the sdk love? :|
Aug 24 18:51:07 <HattCzech_work> and i only have a month left
Aug 24 18:51:21 <codeslaw_> wait, so PORTING gets you a new phone, but not writing an original PDK app?
Aug 24 18:51:28 <HattCzech_work> codeslaw_: yup
Aug 24 18:51:28 <swisstomcat> well, probably a new one too
Aug 24 18:51:39 <HattCzech_work> hmmm, i'll have to ask palm about that
Aug 24 18:51:41 <swisstomcat> anyone wants the details, i'll forward you the email
Aug 24 18:51:50 <Tibfib> hmmm. I hope my card is getting charged each time I click on purchase for angry birds... hmm.
Aug 24 18:51:53 <codeslaw_> what in the name of backwards kcuf is that
Aug 24 18:51:53 <jkovacs> was that in the recent newsletter I didn't read?
Aug 24 18:51:55 <HattCzech_work> hattczech@gmail.com
Aug 24 18:52:03 <codeslaw_> paintrdev@gmail.com
Aug 24 18:52:14 <Tibfib> tibfib1 AT the gmail place
Aug 24 18:52:17 <HattCzech_work> oh, if it's in the newsletter, then i can read it there
Aug 24 18:52:26 <swisstomcat> nah, it was not in a newsletter
Aug 24 18:52:31 <swisstomcat> it was not announced officially
Aug 24 18:53:16 <Tibfib> lol from adora "There's an App Cat vs. Angry Birds joke here somewhere.  Investigating the download issues..."
Aug 24 18:53:49 <Tibfib> oh, and rahulsood got it "Breaking News: A flock of extremely Angry Bird broke the @palm store.  ruh oh!  #webOS #angrybirds #android #ios"
Aug 24 18:54:07 <HattCzech_work> anyone here use vnc?
Aug 24 18:54:17 <swisstomcat> hehe
Aug 24 18:54:31 <swisstomcat> message sent
Aug 24 18:54:35 <HattCzech_work> thanks
Aug 24 18:54:40 <HattCzech_work> just received
Aug 24 18:55:02 <swisstomcat> A flock of extremely Angry Birds broke into Verizon HQ to demand webOS 1.4.5
Aug 24 18:55:08 * Tibfib wants to email the person
Aug 24 18:55:46 <Tibfib> "well I don't know how to write c++ apps, but I'd like a free pre plus. Please?"
Aug 24 18:55:50 * HattCzech_work wants to make sure he can follow through on an agreement to port something before e-mailing :)
Aug 24 18:55:59 <HattCzech_work> hahahaah
Aug 24 18:56:04 <HattCzech_work> Tibfib: i like your idea better
Aug 24 18:56:13 <codeslaw_> i'm pretty pissed that this is only for people porting other apps
Aug 24 18:56:23 <swisstomcat> ask her if it's only for ports
Aug 24 18:56:31 <Tibfib> codeslaw_: your app is awesome. you need a pro version to get some monies
Aug 24 18:56:40 <HattCzech_work> does it count as a port if i'm using 7-year old code for X and trying to get it to run on webOS?
Aug 24 18:56:43 <codeslaw_> pro version is in the works
Aug 24 18:56:50 <Tibfib> I hope so
Aug 24 18:56:54 <swisstomcat> yeah, songwave rocks
Aug 24 18:57:10 <Tibfib> swisstomcat: howd you get that email?
Aug 24 18:57:17 <codeslaw_> but i dont know if there's much of a userbase to make substantial coin with a paid version
Aug 24 18:57:18 <egaudet> if you port a PDK app you get what?
Aug 24 18:57:21 <swisstomcat> tibfib: another dev forwarded it to me
Aug 24 18:57:22 <HattCzech_work> trying to bypass all of the X server stuff is tricky!
Aug 24 18:57:28 <Tibfib> swisstomcat: interesting
Aug 24 18:57:33 <Tibfib> egaudet: free pre plus
Aug 24 18:57:35 <HattCzech_work> egaudet: pre plus
Aug 24 18:57:42 <swisstomcat> yeah .. and she told me it was never formally announced
Aug 24 18:57:59 <Tibfib> that email is probably a 'fake'
Aug 24 18:58:04 <HattCzech_work> meaning these are DL free phones
Aug 24 18:58:06 <swisstomcat> no, it isn't
Aug 24 18:58:15 <swisstomcat> i know at least one person here that got a free phone
Aug 24 18:58:23 <HattCzech_work> so if we e-mail, maybe we get one :)
Aug 24 18:58:24 <swisstomcat> write her an email
Aug 24 18:58:24 <Tibfib> swisstomcat: according to palm
Aug 24 18:58:37 <swisstomcat> according to the dev that received the phone in the mail
Aug 24 18:58:50 <swisstomcat> they have 250 devices available
Aug 24 18:59:13 <HattCzech_work> anyone here use vnc?
Aug 24 18:59:31 * HattCzech_work crosses fingers
Aug 24 18:59:38 <HattCzech_work> (someone please say yes)
Aug 24 19:00:19 <codeslaw_> HattCzech_work: what's your vnc question
Aug 24 19:00:22 <codeslaw_> i've use dit in the past
Aug 24 19:00:37 <HattCzech_work> i need test access to someone with it running
Aug 24 19:00:48 <codeslaw_> ah, can't help you there
Aug 24 19:00:50 <HattCzech_work> and my computer at home isn't running
Aug 24 19:00:58 <HattCzech_work> hmmm... wait a second... WOL...
Aug 24 19:01:19 <HattCzech_work> hopefully it's still plugged in
Aug 24 19:09:08 <dkirker> swisstomcat: Could you send me a copy of the email, please? I'm interested to see what this is about.
Aug 24 19:09:20 <swisstomcat> sure .. email?
Aug 24 19:09:29 <dkirker> donald.kirker at openmobl.com
Aug 24 19:09:50 <swisstomcat> k
Aug 24 19:10:00 <dkirker> thanks!
Aug 24 19:11:04 <swisstomcat> sent
Aug 24 19:11:17 <alexfner> I'm back!
Aug 24 19:11:20 <alexfner> let's start the party!
Aug 24 19:12:23 <dkirker> swisstomcat: Got it! Thanks again!
Aug 24 19:28:04 <alexfner> anyone have access to the ATT 1.4.5 doctor and want to send it to me?  want to do some testing...
Aug 24 19:31:21 <CTLAdvance> 1.4.5 isnt even out yet on ATT
Aug 24 19:31:45 <alexfner> yeah but the doctors are available to devs
Aug 24 19:31:52 <alexfner> I mean
Aug 24 19:31:56 <alexfner> so I've heard
Aug 24 19:33:16 <CTLAdvance> Can you say who was telling you this...
Aug 24 19:33:37 <CTLAdvance> If you want access you will need to email chuq. You have to be part of the developer early access program to get them
Aug 24 19:35:27 <codeslaw_> alexfner: submitted a songwave update with 44.1k audio
Aug 24 19:36:02 <CTLAdvance> alexfner do you know chuqs email
Aug 24 19:36:19 * CTLAdvance assumes everyone knows chuqs email by now
Aug 24 19:37:23 <sugardave> okay, then am I supposed to update__WebKitDatabaseInfoTable__ manually?
Aug 24 19:37:35 <sugardave> to affect version change?
Aug 24 19:37:39 <sugardave> something doesn't seem right
Aug 24 19:37:57 <sugardave> like how come if there is no database at all, then openDatabase(name, version) works?
Aug 24 19:38:27 <sugardave> it seems like if I tried to open another one with a different version, that falls under the "if it doesn't exist it gets created" part
Aug 24 19:40:09 <alexfner> codeslaw_: is it available now?  I will definitely check it out
Aug 24 19:40:43 <codeslaw_> just submitted today, will be a couple days i reckon
Aug 24 19:40:47 <codeslaw_> also added a drums track
Aug 24 19:41:15 * sugardave can't wait for node.js and couchdb/mongodb/whateverdb replacement.
Aug 24 19:41:29 <swisstomcat> sugardave: +1 .. it will be awesome
Aug 24 19:42:23 <sugardave> also, this doc point is not helpful "Requested version; if not defined then any version is returned" seems to mean that there could be more than one
Aug 24 19:42:32 <sugardave> which is apparently impossible to accomplish
Aug 24 19:43:58 <alexfner> yeah the only thing I didn't like about sound wave was the samples
Aug 24 19:44:01 <alexfner> otherwise it was great
Aug 24 19:44:28 <alexfner> CTLAdvance: I can get sprint doctors, but I need att doctors
Aug 24 19:44:33 <sugardave> chuqui: who is the Mojo/sqlite guru at Palm?
Aug 24 19:45:21 <chuqui> sugardave: depends. why?
Aug 24 19:45:27 <codeslaw_> well i realized that latency is improved at 44.1, because any other bit rate is converted at runtime by SDL mixer
Aug 24 19:45:30 <CTLAdvance> alexfner email chuqui he can give you access to the folders
Aug 24 19:45:56 <sugardave> chuqui: well, I have some questions about how it's supposed to work vs. how I thought it worked vs. what the docs say
Aug 24 19:46:05 <codeslaw_> so i get equivalent latency from 8k samples as i do with the 44.1k, with a massive improvment in quality
Aug 24 19:46:22 <chuqui> sugardave: pop those into the forum, we'll have one of the enginers take look
Aug 24 19:46:27 <sugardave> k
Aug 24 19:47:24 <swisstomcat> looking forward to soundwave 3-track
Aug 24 19:48:01 <alexfner> CTLAdvance: I have bothered him already
Aug 24 19:48:41 <alexfner> codeslaw_: yeah that's awesome
Aug 24 19:48:46 <chuqui> I'm working on seeding now.
Aug 24 19:48:50 <chuqui> in and around playing angry birds.
Aug 24 19:48:53 <chuqui> (just kidding).
Aug 24 19:49:52 <HattCzech_work> angry birds is up!
Aug 24 19:51:00 <chuqui> I'm ONLY playing angry birds.
Aug 24 19:51:03 <alexfner> my aunt has an iPad, and I talked her into getting angry birds
Aug 24 19:51:26 <alexfner> it's funny to watch the way people who aren't very computer literate respond to games like that
Aug 24 19:51:31 <alexfner> she was laughing at the novelty of it
Aug 24 19:51:50 <alexfner> and I was laughing at her
Aug 24 19:52:52 <swisstomcat> kids probably like it too
Aug 24 19:53:32 <alexfner> I spose
Aug 24 19:53:47 <haeffb_pre> sugardave: unable to update table?
Aug 24 19:53:51 <alexfner> hey chuqui, any thoughts on the flood of apps from places like AppBookShop.com ?
Aug 24 19:55:03 <CTLAdvance> why is there such a hype behind this bird flinging game?
Aug 24 19:55:05 <alexfner> I have a couple of policy questions for you, also
Aug 24 19:55:22 <CTLAdvance> was this like a platinum plus seller on IOS?
Aug 24 19:56:02 <swisstomcat> yeah
Aug 24 19:56:05 <CTLAdvance> I guess the question is, is it worth 2 in the bush, and will it get played more than once
Aug 24 19:56:10 <swisstomcat> 5mio total sales, 60k a day
Aug 24 19:56:44 * CTLAdvance wips out duke nukem soundboard app and hits Holy Cow
Aug 24 19:56:58 <CTLAdvance> OK Ill give it a go
Aug 24 19:57:07 <alexfner> oh god angry birds!
Aug 24 19:57:09 <alexfner> awesome
Aug 24 19:57:13 <alexfner> just d/l
Aug 24 19:57:40 <alexfner> I was wondering, does anyone know what palm's policies are related to palm profiles?
Aug 24 19:57:54 <swisstomcat> what's the question?
Aug 24 19:57:58 <alexfner> i.e. how long they store inactive profiles, app transfers from different devices, etc?
Aug 24 19:58:44 <CTLAdvance> if you log into a device, you should be able to redownload as many times as needed
Aug 24 19:59:01 <CTLAdvance> so if I have 3 devices I keep switching between...
Aug 24 19:59:05 <alexfner> what about if you change devices, to a newer device?
Aug 24 19:59:11 <CTLAdvance> shouldnt be an issue....
Aug 24 19:59:18 <CTLAdvance> Everything should move over
Aug 24 19:59:19 <alexfner> if it's a different type of device?
Aug 24 19:59:28 <CTLAdvance> will it have webOS
Aug 24 19:59:44 <alexfner> obviously!
Aug 24 19:59:46 <CTLAdvance> A newer webOS device?
Aug 24 19:59:59 <alexfner> I guess what I'm asking is
Aug 24 20:00:03 <CTLAdvance> or like an android device?
Aug 24 20:00:10 <alexfner> imagine having, say some sort of webOS tablet
Aug 24 20:00:13 <alexfner> but you also have a phone
Aug 24 20:00:26 <alexfner> how does profile management work in that case?
Aug 24 20:00:29 <alexfner> or if you have a pixi and a pre?
Aug 24 20:00:32 <swisstomcat> i'm sure they're working on that right now
Aug 24 20:00:34 <CTLAdvance> currently I would say you would want two profiles
Aug 24 20:00:35 <Mousey> imagine you could bluetooth your contacts from one to the other
Aug 24 20:00:37 <Mousey> aww, imagination
Aug 24 20:00:41 <CTLAdvance> yeah I think swiss is right
Aug 24 20:00:43 <Mousey> it's a wonderful escape from reality =(
Aug 24 20:00:46 <swisstomcat> mousey: dream on
Aug 24 20:00:47 <CTLAdvance> atm you would need two profiles
Aug 24 20:00:49 <alexfner> I spose so
Aug 24 20:00:52 <codeslaw_> AAWW YES angry birds is DOWNLOADING NOW!
Aug 24 20:01:00 <haeffb_pre> alexfner: I can't stop imagining...!
Aug 24 20:01:12 <swisstomcat> boh, bah .. verizon .. where is 1.4.5
Aug 24 20:01:17 <alexfner> it'd be really great if you could have your messaging sessions stored in the cloud, so they'd be on both devices
Aug 24 20:01:38 <swisstomcat> yeah, cool idea
Aug 24 20:02:04 <swisstomcat> you also would want your phone apps on your tablet and vice versa
Aug 24 20:02:12 <alexfner> yeah
Aug 24 20:02:23 <alexfner> so if you downloaded to one, it would automatically download to the other later on
Aug 24 20:02:28 <CTLAdvance> alex - yeah I agree, ideally you should be able to sync your profile of any changes over the air
Aug 24 20:02:29 <alexfner> or you could manage apps on both, from either
Aug 24 20:02:43 <CTLAdvance> so new apps bought on your phone also download on the tablet
Aug 24 20:02:49 <CTLAdvance> however we get into licensing issues
Aug 24 20:03:06 <CTLAdvance> many big developer studios will only want you to have access to one license
Aug 24 20:03:09 <dawm|laptop> i would assume the palm profile would take care of all that
Aug 24 20:03:10 <CTLAdvance> per device
Aug 24 20:03:30 <alexfner> yeah, I guess they'll probably follow the ipad idea
Aug 24 20:03:40 <alexfner> which is that apps are completely seperate
Aug 24 20:04:02 <swisstomcat> you have to buy them  twice?
Aug 24 20:04:03 <alexfner> but still, if I could manage apps for all my devices from one device, taht would be neat, so I could purchase an app for my tablet from my phone
Aug 24 20:04:05 <alexfner> yeah
Aug 24 20:04:08 <swisstomcat> really?
Aug 24 20:04:09 <swisstomcat> wow
Aug 24 20:04:15 <dawm|laptop> i thought apps were tied to your itunes acct
Aug 24 20:04:25 <dawm|laptop> if you bought it, you have it
Aug 24 20:04:41 <alexfner> I don't think so?
Aug 24 20:05:01 <alexfner> I mean, developers are charging more for the same app on the iPad
Aug 24 20:05:14 <alexfner> there are a bunch of iPad specific apps...
Aug 24 20:05:27 <dawm|laptop> yeah but thats a higher res version
Aug 24 20:05:32 <guest8276482364> does anyone know what the GPS error code 7 means? doc says "application already has a pending message"
Aug 24 20:05:39 <swisstomcat> but they are technically different apps (hd versions)
Aug 24 20:05:45 <dawm|laptop> yep
Aug 24 20:05:47 <dawm|laptop> different apps
Aug 24 20:05:58 <dawm|laptop> so to have both you have to buy both
Aug 24 20:06:00 <swisstomcat> guest: getposition or tracking?
Aug 24 20:06:07 <guest8276482364> getposition
Aug 24 20:06:29 <alexfner> yeah, so I guess you could have your iPhone apps on your iPad
Aug 24 20:06:34 <dawm|laptop> but if you wanted to use the normal app that you bought for ipod/iphone you dont have to buy it again for ipad
Aug 24 20:06:47 <dawm|laptop> alexfner: that was the big feature when they annouced the ipad
Aug 24 20:06:48 <alexfner> but they'd do that stupid thing where you can zoom them
Aug 24 20:06:54 <dawm|laptop> run your iphone/ipod apps
Aug 24 20:07:03 <alexfner> yeah, but I have used those, and it sucks on a tablet :D
Aug 24 20:07:05 <dawm|laptop> yeah double pixel
Aug 24 20:07:29 <alexfner> well, 4x
Aug 24 20:07:37 <dawm|laptop> same dif
Aug 24 20:07:39 <dawm|laptop> :P
Aug 24 20:07:39 <alexfner> cause the res is double, but 4x the pixels, amirite?
Aug 24 20:07:40 <swisstomcat> but it will be different for webos apps
Aug 24 20:07:43 <swisstomcat> webapps
Aug 24 20:07:52 <swisstomcat> most should work
Aug 24 20:08:05 <swisstomcat> with little changes to the css to make them resolution independent
Aug 24 20:08:05 <dawm|laptop> those that listend to the app suggestions should
Aug 24 20:08:15 <dawm|laptop> the ones that say to make your app resize based on res, not hardcoded
Aug 24 20:08:59 <alexfner> 3.7" touchscreen phone!?! COME ON!
Aug 24 20:09:30 <CTLAdvance> 3.7?
Aug 24 20:09:44 <CTLAdvance> I need at least 4 or my next device wont be webOS
Aug 24 20:09:47 <CTLAdvance> unless its free
Aug 24 20:09:53 <dawm|laptop> lol
Aug 24 20:10:09 <alexfner> 3.7 is the perfect size
Aug 24 20:10:14 <alexfner> have you seen the droid incredible?
Aug 24 20:10:16 <alexfner> it's perfect
Aug 24 20:10:23 <CTLAdvance> I wont pay for an inadequate device... or obsolete, whichever you preffer...
Aug 24 20:10:29 <alexfner> bigger than that is just too large
Aug 24 20:10:37 <alexfner> 3.7, 960x640
Aug 24 20:10:38 <CTLAdvance> I have seen and used a few of them
Aug 24 20:10:40 <alexfner> come on, that's awesome
Aug 24 20:11:07 <dawm|laptop> aint that the ip4 res?
Aug 24 20:11:25 <alexfner> yeah
Aug 24 20:11:37 <alexfner> I mean 3.5 is a bit too small
Aug 24 20:11:39 <alexfner> 4, too big
Aug 24 20:11:42 <alexfner> 3.7, just right
Aug 24 20:11:49 <CTLAdvance> I figure since they probably arent making a 4" (i could be wrong) I will probably cary a WP7 device and a WebOS Tablet
Aug 24 20:12:03 <CTLAdvance> however I hope they have a larger screen instead of smaller
Aug 24 20:12:11 <alexfner> the people who designed WP7 must be comedians
Aug 24 20:12:16 <alexfner> cause that stuff is truly a joke
Aug 24 20:12:16 <CTLAdvance> why
Aug 24 20:12:21 <CTLAdvance> yeah ok
Aug 24 20:12:24 <dawm|laptop> ill never use a winmo phone again
Aug 24 20:12:26 <alexfner> :D
Aug 24 20:12:32 * madnificent loves the size of the pre
Aug 24 20:12:49 <madnificent> everyone seems to comment on the great screen it has.  The resolution is on par and the size is just about right
Aug 24 20:12:52 <CTLAdvance> Too each his or her own... smart device
Aug 24 20:12:55 <madnificent> there's no need to change it
Aug 24 20:12:56 <alexfner> yeah the pre is actually a really great device
Aug 24 20:13:03 <alexfner> it's very heavy though
Aug 24 20:13:17 <CTLAdvance> i guess it depends on your usage
Aug 24 20:13:18 <alexfner> I wonder if it's possible to make a lightweight slider phone
Aug 24 20:13:30 <alexfner> but man, have you ever looked at the ifixit teardown of the pre?
Aug 24 20:13:31 <CTLAdvance> I really need a webOS tablet with around a 10" screen
Aug 24 20:13:36 <madnificent> I wouldn't mind it if it would weigh 200g or more... if the slider would be a tad more solid (like with the +) then it would feel like an actual rock...
Aug 24 20:13:37 <alexfner> it's one beautiful piece of engineering
Aug 24 20:13:44 <CTLAdvance> I need a 4" at least phone now
Aug 24 20:13:54 <CTLAdvance> esp after using some of the others
Aug 24 20:14:13 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: can't you just do that already?  Drop the x86 build on a tablet and enjoy yourself...
Aug 24 20:14:29 <dawm|laptop> no app catalog ;p
Aug 24 20:14:37 <alexfner> palm must have some pretty great engineers
Aug 24 20:14:40 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: are you sure you're not talking about resolution?  unless you have bad eyes, wanting 4" is total crap
Aug 24 20:14:49 <alexfner> it's too bad they never get any interviews
Aug 24 20:14:59 <alexfner> it'd be great to listen to someone who makes a really great product talk about it
Aug 24 20:15:02 <madnificent> alexfner: PR was total crap
Aug 24 20:15:23 <madnificent> alexfner: read any popular interview about the pre and they say "We couldn't touch it"
Aug 24 20:15:30 <madnificent> or "The battery life is bad" (somewhat true)
Aug 24 20:15:41 <madnificent> or "But it's not our <insert make here>"
Aug 24 20:15:49 <HattCzech_work> chuqui: who handles the "send results to palm" for interactive tests?
Aug 24 20:16:09 <madnificent> alexfner: also, they've done everything right that doesn't have a number sticked to it
Aug 24 20:16:18 <alexfner> madnificent: I cam confused about what you just said?
Aug 24 20:16:22 <alexfner> explain
Aug 24 20:16:38 <madnificent> alexfner: the last comment?
Aug 24 20:16:45 <CTLAdvance> I dont see how wanting a 4" screen is total crap, that statement you just made is total garbage
Aug 24 20:16:50 <swisstomcat> btw: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/webos/webos-sdk .. just saying :)
Aug 24 20:16:52 <alexfner> the general idea
Aug 24 20:17:16 <CTLAdvance> a 4" screen removes stress from your eyes, and if your at a computer 20 hours a day avg its a big deal
Aug 24 20:17:37 <CTLAdvance> also if you want to do any good apps a 4" screen makes a huge difference
Aug 24 20:17:38 <madnificent> alexfner: the last sentence was about what the designers did right (separate from the reviews).  The former part was where the PR basically failed.
Aug 24 20:18:00 <CTLAdvance> swisstomcat - I read it over, looked really good
Aug 24 20:18:02 <alexfner> I dunno, I don't necessarily see that
Aug 24 20:18:17 <swisstomcat> ctladvance: thanks .. left a comment?
Aug 24 20:18:21 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: how does that change anything?  The button gets bigger... yay, now we see our pixels... either you want a higher resolution with your 4" screen (in which case you probably just want a higher resolution) or your eyes aren't good
Aug 24 20:18:21 <CTLAdvance> no
Aug 24 20:18:30 <swisstomcat> ctladvance: part 2 will have more meat
Aug 24 20:18:31 <alexfner> PR did the best they could, at the time Palm was a small company with limited resources, competing against companies with an amazing amount of money and resources
Aug 24 20:18:39 <alexfner> and I think the product they made is pretty remarkable considering
Aug 24 20:18:43 <CTLAdvance> With a 4" screen really should come higher pixels
Aug 24 20:19:09 <CTLAdvance> If you launched a 4" screen with 320 x 480 res
Aug 24 20:19:15 <CTLAdvance> then who ever launched that is an idiot
Aug 24 20:19:32 <CTLAdvance> With the 960*640
Aug 24 20:19:37 <CTLAdvance> I would expect a larger screen
Aug 24 20:19:53 <madnificent> alexfner: their efforts were great, but they could've done better without much money... just run the emulator and let the journalists toy with that... no real phone, but they'll see how it works... everything was better than "stay away from the phone".  Whenever you need to stay away from something, it means that it really isn't working (somehow, I doubt that, with all the videos of employees toying around with the pre at the time)
Aug 24 20:20:04 <alexfner> here's what they're doing to do: a 3.7 inch screen 960 x 640, and a 7 inch tablet with 960 x 640
Aug 24 20:20:05 <CTLAdvance> swiss - yeah I glanced over quick - its a good start for a beginner
Aug 24 20:20:11 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: so you do want a higher resolution :)
Aug 24 20:20:15 <CTLAdvance> Yes :D
Aug 24 20:20:16 <alexfner> so when you make apps, you can publish one for both
Aug 24 20:20:20 <CTLAdvance> Sorry I was not clear
Aug 24 20:20:23 <alexfner> and one for the fallbacks(pre, pixi)
Aug 24 20:20:23 <CTLAdvance> I want it all
Aug 24 20:20:29 <CTLAdvance> and I want it.... now
Aug 24 20:20:45 * madnificent doesn't want a bigger screen than the pre, I would accept a higher resolution.  With a bigger screen, comes a bigger phone... big phones aren't sexy
Aug 24 20:21:04 <CTLAdvance> I guess I go for better functionality
Aug 24 20:21:21 <alexfner> I see it really likely to get a phone and a tablet at the same resolution
Aug 24 20:21:26 <alexfner> and keep the tablet smaller
Aug 24 20:21:35 <CTLAdvance> I guess if they make a tablet phone I would be all set
Aug 24 20:21:37 <alexfner> 7 inch, cause it's going to be 960 x 640
Aug 24 20:21:40 <madnificent> alexfner: the last part was that palm did everything right that didn't have numbers.  Holding the pre feels right.  The keyboard is really good.  The phone responds to whatever you do (it rarely clogs in comparison to an htc hero for instance). etc etc
Aug 24 20:21:40 <CTLAdvance> can I get a holster for that?
Aug 24 20:21:50 <alexfner> and the new phone would be the same res at 3.7 inches
Aug 24 20:21:51 <alexfner> it's perfect
Aug 24 20:21:53 <CTLAdvance> alex did these sizes get announced?
Aug 24 20:22:00 <alexfner> no no, I'm just saying
Aug 24 20:22:03 <alexfner> think about it!
Aug 24 20:22:18 <madnificent> the way you guys build apps now doesn't require them to be of the same resolution
Aug 24 20:22:29 <alexfner> same resolution, it's perfect, you don't have to deal with tons of different resolutions
Aug 24 20:22:52 <madnificent> the apps are rather generic because most people use standard classes from palm.  Clearly most apps will change a bit, but probably not immensely much
Aug 24 20:23:06 <CTLAdvance> it makes sense, then we wouldnt need to do so many changes, however after looking at the larger realestate... I still need 4, or ill have to pass, ideally I would like around 5 inch diagonal screen I will settle for 4 or 4.3
Aug 24 20:23:59 <codeslaw_> i'm doin it.  i'm overclocking this pos sprint pre
Aug 24 20:24:02 <alexfner> I don't see the market staying at 4 or 4.3 in screens for long
Aug 24 20:24:08 <swisstomcat> i've set my emulator's resolution to 960x640 and my app looked fine
Aug 24 20:24:15 <alexfner> that size is made to make up for the fact that you don't have vertical integration with a tablet
Aug 24 20:24:18 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: 5" is NOT a phone
Aug 24 20:24:31 <alexfner> once tablets come in at 7 inches, phones will fall back to 3.5, 3.7 or 4
Aug 24 20:24:31 <madnificent> I'd argue that 4" for a phone is insanity
Aug 24 20:24:50 <CTLAdvance> why couldnt it just be long
Aug 24 20:24:52 <madnificent> I do have a tablet to complement my pre
Aug 24 20:25:04 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: because that's likely even worse than wide
Aug 24 20:25:08 <CTLAdvance> :)
Aug 24 20:25:14 <dawm|laptop> i dont want to carry a bag to carry my phone
Aug 24 20:25:36 <CTLAdvance> I would have to disagree, I like more space, more pixels in a smaller space only means everything is that much smaller
Aug 24 20:25:52 <CTLAdvance> you could easily holster a 5 incher
Aug 24 20:25:57 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: a long phone is harder to hold in your hand (like the pre with an open keyboard whilst you want to type on it with one hand)..
Aug 24 20:26:36 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: also, it must fit in your pocket.  You always cary it around.
Aug 24 20:26:42 <CTLAdvance> I have no issues holding an open pre, nor do I have issues holding a normal landline phone which are usually several inches long
Aug 24 20:26:50 <CTLAdvance> ok good point
Aug 24 20:26:57 <CTLAdvance> I take for granted that I holster everything
Aug 24 20:27:08 <CTLAdvance> NOTHING goes in my pockets :)
Aug 24 20:27:18 <madnificent> you need to augment the phone with other form factors
Aug 24 20:27:27 <madnificent> and keep the phone the thing you have by your hand to solve your quickest tasks
Aug 24 20:27:35 <CTLAdvance> damn... I am starting to look like batman...
Aug 24 20:28:07 <CTLAdvance> The thing is it is inefficient to carry so many devices...
Aug 24 20:28:27 <codeslaw_> YES.  I PASSED POOTIE PANTS.  my life has meaning again
Aug 24 20:28:29 <madnificent> it really isn't that bad...  I have my phone handy for everything that comes up NOW
Aug 24 20:28:39 <CTLAdvance> I already carry two laptops everywhere I go, why do I need my tablet, so I want/need a larger sized phone
Aug 24 20:28:50 <madnificent> I have a tablet pc (with keyboard) in my backpack when I go somewhere where I could have to do something
Aug 24 20:29:01 <CTLAdvance> yes exactly
Aug 24 20:29:02 <madnificent> the pre can basically do everything I need, it just takes a bit longer
Aug 24 20:29:24 <CTLAdvance> I guess its just pref.
Aug 24 20:29:33 <CTLAdvance> The market is leaning to larger devices right now
Aug 24 20:29:39 <CTLAdvance> and I am one of them...
Aug 24 20:29:45 <madnificent> fwiw: it's an hp2710p, it lasts for about 10 hours when using the extended battery (which is slick) and besides being rather slow it is great to work on.
Aug 24 20:29:54 * madnificent doesn't notice any speed issues on linux
Aug 24 20:30:06 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: marketing is leaning towards larger devices
Aug 24 20:30:09 <madnificent> that's a whole different thing
Aug 24 20:30:26 <madnificent> when I bought the tablet most people had 15 or 17" laptops... because that was the new cool
Aug 24 20:30:29 <CTLAdvance> Yeah, I had a HP TX2 for a while I was getting 6 hours on
Aug 24 20:30:39 <alexfner> CTLAdvance: here's what I see for the future
Aug 24 20:30:42 <CTLAdvance> And then my graphics card burned up
Aug 24 20:30:45 <madnificent> when they see the smaller laptop, they realise that they actually don't want a big computer
Aug 24 20:30:51 <alexfner> CTLAdvance: people will have a tablet and a phone, that work well together
Aug 24 20:31:05 <madnificent> your brain filters out everything around the screen anyways, the size doesn't matter as long as you can see the resolution
Aug 24 20:31:13 <alexfner> CTLAdvance: but you won't be carrying around two computers, your tablet will take away most of that functionality
Aug 24 20:31:27 <madnificent> alexfner: your tablet must be a fully-fledged computer
Aug 24 20:31:39 <alexfner> CTLAdvance: so there's no reason to make 4.3 or 5" screens when 2" more is the tablet
Aug 24 20:31:39 <madnificent> alexfner: it must be a work-station, the idea of it not having a keyboard is a bad one
Aug 24 20:31:52 <alexfner> no, tablets play a new role
Aug 24 20:31:57 <CTLAdvance> then why have a phone
Aug 24 20:32:02 <alexfner> guys guys, just read about the future of computing!
Aug 24 20:32:03 <CTLAdvance> why not have it built into the tablet
Aug 24 20:32:07 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: because it is instant-on
Aug 24 20:32:08 <alexfner> this is not me saying this
Aug 24 20:32:12 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: because it is always there
Aug 24 20:32:12 <alexfner> this is the industry saying this!
Aug 24 20:32:16 <CTLAdvance> tablet will be instant on
Aug 24 20:32:20 <CTLAdvance> if its webOS
Aug 24 20:32:23 <CTLAdvance> it should be
Aug 24 20:32:31 <codeslaw_> i'm instant on
Aug 24 20:32:32 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: because it gives you the functionality which you need without having to do anything
Aug 24 20:32:44 <codeslaw_> i give you the functionality you need
Aug 24 20:32:55 <alexfner> developers are not the average consumer
Aug 24 20:33:04 <alexfner> tablets serve to engage the average consumer
Aug 24 20:33:07 <CTLAdvance> Then why have a smart phone, are you not seeing my poiint
Aug 24 20:33:14 <alexfner> and the average consumer wants a tablet instead of a computer for most functions
Aug 24 20:33:27 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: a tablet is too big to have with you at all times, it does not fit in your pocket, it won't likely be that much faster than a phone in the future, it is a mess to phone with... and after all you don't _need_ that screen real estate for simple tasks like seeing where your meeting is
Aug 24 20:33:29 <dawm|laptop> smart phones have apps and the wifis and gbs thats why
Aug 24 20:33:45 <CTLAdvance> you just made my point
Aug 24 20:33:50 <CTLAdvance> why have a tablet and a phone
Aug 24 20:33:59 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: because they serve vastly different purposes
Aug 24 20:34:03 <alexfner> because they serve different use cases
Aug 24 20:34:05 <CTLAdvance> a 5 inch screen with a high resolution could replace both
Aug 24 20:34:10 <alexfner> a phone is a  minute to a few minutes
Aug 24 20:34:15 <alexfner> a tablet is a few minutes to a few hours
Aug 24 20:34:15 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: but don't assume the tablet will not have a keyboard in the near future
Aug 24 20:34:21 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: nope, it doesn't
Aug 24 20:34:27 <CTLAdvance> if you need a phone to be just a phone to be just a phone you shouldnt have a smart phone
Aug 24 20:34:28 <alexfner> and the functions they perform are vastly different
Aug 24 20:34:44 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: ever tried to do anything people do on computers with less than 10" of screen at the same speed as they do?  you can't :)
Aug 24 20:34:59 <dawm|laptop> i can vouch for that
Aug 24 20:35:04 <dawm|laptop> actually 9"
Aug 24 20:35:05 <CTLAdvance> ive come close, my tablet pc is 12.2
Aug 24 20:35:05 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: try editing a word document on 1280x800, there's barely any screen left
Aug 24 20:35:11 <dawm|laptop> stupid dell mni 9
Aug 24 20:35:17 <dawm|laptop> i wish i never bought you
Aug 24 20:35:24 <CTLAdvance> ive done that
Aug 24 20:35:43 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: I have 12.2 inch, it has the same resolution as big laptops 1280x800 and that makes me work just fine.  But I have fairly good eyes, so I code on a 9px font.
Aug 24 20:35:57 <madnificent> dawm|laptop: why?
Aug 24 20:36:08 <dawm|laptop> its not usable
Aug 24 20:36:14 <dawm|laptop> screen is too short
Aug 24 20:36:16 <madnificent> dawm|laptop: I could guess that, why?
Aug 24 20:36:22 <madnificent> dawm|laptop: widescreen?
Aug 24 20:36:28 <dawm|laptop> 9"
Aug 24 20:36:37 <dawm|laptop> yeah i guess its a widescreen
Aug 24 20:36:48 <CTLAdvance> but why are we talking about doing coding on a tablet, I never said that
Aug 24 20:36:50 <madnificent> dawm|laptop: ah yess, that's too small, certainly with widescreen (which was a bad idea too, as were glossy screens)
Aug 24 20:37:03 <CTLAdvance> I am talking strictly for email, consuming media, games etc etc
Aug 24 20:37:03 <dawm|laptop> like when i ran macos on it, i couldnt always hit the buttons on dialogs
Aug 24 20:37:09 * madnificent has yet to see the first glossy laptop screen with better (as in correct) color than his hp2710p
Aug 24 20:37:18 <CTLAdvance> work will always remain on a real computer until input is vastly improved
Aug 24 20:37:23 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: nope
Aug 24 20:37:29 <alexfner> so the original question
Aug 24 20:37:33 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: I've done more than one job on the slow little lappy :)
Aug 24 20:37:41 <alexfner> does anyone know how long palm stores inactive palm profileS?
Aug 24 20:37:41 <CTLAdvance> your going to do heavy coding on a touch screen
Aug 24 20:37:49 <dawm|laptop> either way, ill be buying a webos tablet whatever size, as well as the next webos phone
Aug 24 20:37:51 <CTLAdvance> a small tablet
Aug 24 20:37:59 <CTLAdvance> were not even talking about a 12 inch
Aug 24 20:38:03 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: and altough I probably work faster on my dual-monitor pc... my main limitation is not the size of the screen, but the resolution
Aug 24 20:38:04 <CTLAdvance> I was talking a smaller device
Aug 24 20:38:07 <alexfner> dawm|laptop: werd
Aug 24 20:38:43 <CTLAdvance> we will just have to agree to disagree, I think the next phone should be 4" at a minimum... you dont :)
Aug 24 20:38:45 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: there is no need for a 9" tablet or whatever... it doesn't make sense... 9" is the correct size for ebook readers, not for interactive work
Aug 24 20:38:47 <alexfner> man, angry birds, what a game
Aug 24 20:39:04 <CTLAdvance> Madnificent
Aug 24 20:39:09 <CTLAdvance> I never said that to be the case
Aug 24 20:39:19 <CTLAdvance> I would never try and do real work on a tablet or smaller screen
Aug 24 20:39:29 <CTLAdvance> I cary a 16" toshiba AMD Quadcore for that
Aug 24 20:39:30 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: I doubt hp will release only one phone... if they only release a 4" inch phone I'll be sure to doubt palm for the next 4 years or so, that would be the dumbest decision ever
Aug 24 20:39:45 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: I doubt you have good eyes :)
Aug 24 20:39:55 <CTLAdvance> I actually see 20x20
Aug 24 20:40:01 <madnificent> what resolution do you work on with your 16"?
Aug 24 20:40:10 <bougyman> 16"?  how do you see such a tiny screen?
Aug 24 20:40:18 <CTLAdvance> however I am on 3 or 4 screens at least 20 hours a day, if not 1 or 2 days straight
Aug 24 20:40:21 <CTLAdvance> :/
Aug 24 20:40:27 <alexfner> I work on a 13" :/
Aug 24 20:40:31 * bougyman sports an 18.4" Qosmio
Aug 24 20:40:36 <alexfner> it's no the size that matters, it's the resolution!
Aug 24 20:40:44 <CTLAdvance> My TX2 which I used was 12"
Aug 24 20:40:49 <CTLAdvance> I used that for 3 years
Aug 24 20:40:52 <madnificent> alexfner: I work on 2x 19" (non-widescreen) or a single 13"
Aug 24 20:41:14 <CTLAdvance> if you have ever used visual studio on a small screen its impossible
Aug 24 20:41:18 <bougyman> i have the qosmio 18.4 at two 24" samsungs.
Aug 24 20:41:21 * bougyman has very poor vision.
Aug 24 20:41:23 <CTLAdvance> infact they have a min res for screens
Aug 24 20:41:28 <madnificent> I seem to work on a 12.1 inch, which is more than fair enough
Aug 24 20:41:41 <CTLAdvance> bougyman, did you know hp had a 23" for a while
Aug 24 20:41:45 <alexfner> until the res of the phone is greater than my screen, I don't need to upgrade
Aug 24 20:41:49 <CTLAdvance> it was around $2k
Aug 24 20:41:51 <bougyman> CTLAdvance: didn't know that.
Aug 24 20:41:53 <madnificent> bougyman: poor vision is a different issue, then you don't gain anything from a higher resolution and a 4" phone might actually make sense too
Aug 24 20:42:00 <bougyman> i thought fujitsu's 19" was the biggest laptop.
Aug 24 20:42:10 <CTLAdvance> yeah it was essentially a foldup pc, not a notebook
Aug 24 20:42:15 <bougyman> madnificent: i can see the pre fine, was semi-joking about vision.
Aug 24 20:42:45 * madnificent doesn't understand why everyone keeps thinking about size, you need screen real estate... and that is not measured in inches
Aug 24 20:43:33 * CTLAdvance doesnt understand why madnificent doesnt get as you increase the pixel size you need to increase the size of the screen or it gets to small for most people to be comfortable with
Aug 24 20:43:34 <CTLAdvance> really
Aug 24 20:43:46 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: iphone?
Aug 24 20:43:49 <alexfner> now now gentlemen
Aug 24 20:43:55 <alexfner> let's keep it civil in here
Aug 24 20:43:57 <CTLAdvance> When I open a web page I shouldnt have to scroll through and zoom
Aug 24 20:44:01 <bougyman> madnificent: size is important.
Aug 24 20:44:02 <alexfner> you two disagree over something fundamental
Aug 24 20:44:08 <codeslaw_> hey which preware feed contains the overclocked kernels?
Aug 24 20:44:09 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: and no, I can see 1280x800 on 12.1 inch (pixelized), why would I want to replicate it on 21" ?
Aug 24 20:44:12 <alexfner> it's like disagreeing over the roles of the federal government
Aug 24 20:44:13 <CTLAdvance> like I said we should agree to disagree
Aug 24 20:44:17 <madnificent> bougyman: but not for your screen ^_^
Aug 24 20:44:22 <bougyman> madnificent: sure it is.
Aug 24 20:44:28 <alexfner> reguardless of your opinion, it isn't fact, so you're not proving anything
Aug 24 20:44:31 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: scrolling and zooming is the resolution, not the size
Aug 24 20:44:53 <CTLAdvance> like I said, if you have a bigger screen you can comfortably increase the pixel size
Aug 24 20:45:02 <bougyman> that's why size is important.
Aug 24 20:45:09 <CTLAdvance> I wouldnt want 960*640 on the pre's 3.1" screen
Aug 24 20:45:14 <CTLAdvance> that would be a huge turn off
Aug 24 20:45:23 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: you don't need that... have you ever tried to read an ebook reader for instance?
Aug 24 20:45:33 <CTLAdvance> yes
Aug 24 20:46:04 <madnificent> the thing why small letters aren't comfortable to see on an 3" screen as they are on a 19" inch screen is because if you only have 64 pixels to show a letter, the options get quite limited
Aug 24 20:46:24 <CTLAdvance> right
Aug 24 20:46:30 <CTLAdvance> which is why size matters
Aug 24 20:46:34 <madnificent> an ebook reader reads nice, even though the letters are actually really really tiny.  As long as the shape of the letters is right, you can see it
Aug 24 20:47:00 <madnificent> the way you can see it when something is not exactly 1mm wide... when you try to measure it, you see it is actually 1.25mm wide... and you can see that
Aug 24 20:47:05 <CTLAdvance> yes but an eink screen is very different then a pixelated device screen
Aug 24 20:47:11 <CTLAdvance> try and read on an ipad vs the kindle
Aug 24 20:47:12 <madnificent> in the same way you gain from having a higher resolution (like the new iphone)
Aug 24 20:47:20 <CTLAdvance> the kindle is always going to be easier than the ipad
Aug 24 20:47:44 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: yes, but as you raise the resolution, the clarity of letters approaches each other
Aug 24 20:47:49 <CTLAdvance> yes I agree
Aug 24 20:47:55 <CTLAdvance> but everything gets smaller on the screen
Aug 24 20:47:59 <madnificent> not really
Aug 24 20:48:04 <CTLAdvance> if I load a full page on a 3.1" screen
Aug 24 20:48:10 <CTLAdvance> and a full page on a 4" screen
Aug 24 20:48:12 <CTLAdvance> huge difference
Aug 24 20:48:13 <madnificent> it doesn't need to get smaller if you don't intend to show more... that's a problem webos solves for you
Aug 24 20:48:28 <CTLAdvance> your missing my point
Aug 24 20:48:34 <madnificent> if you have the same resolution and decent eyes, your brain filters out most of the size issue...
Aug 24 20:48:46 <CTLAdvance> I think your getting lost in an arbitrary thought behind the benefits of webOS
Aug 24 20:48:56 <CTLAdvance> webOS doesnt solve how a website is loaded
Aug 24 20:49:12 <madnificent> have you tried to see something on a device with a decent resolution?  We're not nearly at the bounds of it...  the iphone has apparantly reached that bound, and up to there it is not necessary to raise the screen size
Aug 24 20:49:14 <halfhalo_T400> or does it
Aug 24 20:49:23 <CTLAdvance> if I load a full version site and I want to glance over it, I have to zoom in more on a smaller screen of the same res of a bigger one
Aug 24 20:49:31 <madnificent> it does, partially... but I get your point
Aug 24 20:49:43 <madnificent> but the pre really isn't for browsing
Aug 24 20:49:53 <CTLAdvance> theres another point of mine
Aug 24 20:49:58 <CTLAdvance> now I need a second device
Aug 24 20:50:00 <madnificent> a 4" screen will not solve the fact that people assume you'll have a 20" display in front of you
Aug 24 20:50:13 <madnificent> it's going to be about as bad
Aug 24 20:50:18 <codeslaw_> anyone here overclocking their pre?
Aug 24 20:50:20 <madnificent> you'll still have to zoom in on the relevant parts
Aug 24 20:50:20 <CTLAdvance> Have you used a droidx, or an evo, or an hd2
Aug 24 20:50:26 <alexfner> I have
Aug 24 20:50:30 <alexfner> and they're huge
Aug 24 20:50:36 <madnificent> you'll still have to wait longer because the device is slower
Aug 24 20:50:45 <madnificent> it keeps being non-optimal
Aug 24 20:50:50 <madnificent> but the pre isn't made for browsing!
Aug 24 20:50:52 <CTLAdvance> the extra realestate makes a big difference vs the pre, I can have more visible, at a comfortable sixe
Aug 24 20:50:54 <CTLAdvance> soze
Aug 24 20:50:54 <madnificent> it's made for the apps written on it
Aug 24 20:50:56 <CTLAdvance> bah
Aug 24 20:51:05 <madnificent> codeslaw_: I have tried it
Aug 24 20:51:44 <madnificent> if the pre isn't made for displaying web pages, then it is built for the apps that are written for it... and within those bounds of doing things quickly, the screen size itself is more than big enough... look at how the big the letters on the buttons are!
Aug 24 20:52:10 <codeslaw_> ican't find the patch, but it might be because i need to update preware
Aug 24 20:52:13 <CTLAdvance> so your essentially saying that you cant adequately browse the web on the pre
Aug 24 20:52:15 <CTLAdvance> correct
Aug 24 20:52:41 <madnificent> the only point which you can argue on (and I find it very strange that you haven't, but someone needs to do it) is the fact that you don't gain in pressing a place on the screen.  It stays just as hard as you raise the resolution
Aug 24 20:53:06 <CTLAdvance> I think I have many more points to argue on than you
Aug 24 20:53:12 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: and you will not be able to browse on your phone unless it becomes the resolution of your desktop...
Aug 24 20:53:18 <CTLAdvance> you seem to think there is no benefit to increasing screen size
Aug 24 20:53:21 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: I think you haven't made a single point :P
Aug 24 20:53:30 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: for a phone, no!
Aug 24 20:53:34 <CTLAdvance> lol I say the same about you
Aug 24 20:53:37 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: but keep in mind, your phone is not a computer
Aug 24 20:53:42 <CTLAdvance> I agree
Aug 24 20:53:43 <madnificent> in that case, I stop arguing with the wall
Aug 24 20:53:49 <halfhalo_T400> holy mother of pearl this class is full
Aug 24 20:53:49 <madnificent> enjoy your 25" phone :)
Aug 24 20:53:56 <CTLAdvance> however, I shouldnt need to wip out my computer to do lite browsing
Aug 24 20:54:47 <CTLAdvance> eventually the line between phone and tablet should blur, it wont happen now because companies need to make their money first
Aug 24 20:55:31 <CTLAdvance> but essentially you will have one streamlined device to handle everything light weight, and a regular machine to support regular work
Aug 24 20:55:50 <CTLAdvance> if you fail to see that... then I am not sure anyone can help you
Aug 24 20:56:38 <egaudet> my pockets arent getting any bigger :P
Aug 24 20:58:11 <CTLAdvance> in the future you wont have pockets ;)
Aug 24 20:58:19 <CTLAdvance> ok maybe not
Aug 24 20:58:24 <egaudet> lol
Aug 24 20:58:32 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: sorry, that was rude and stupid :)
Aug 24 20:58:42 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: the devices will not likely merge, the applications running on it will
Aug 24 20:58:45 <egaudet> when everything is embedded in my brain-chip
Aug 24 20:58:48 <madnificent> try to understand that difference :)
Aug 24 20:58:58 <CTLAdvance> I like the way you think eq
Aug 24 20:59:00 <CTLAdvance> eg
Aug 24 20:59:03 <madnificent> egaudet: if nokia gets its way, we can do with a bracelet :)
Aug 24 20:59:20 <egaudet> :D
Aug 24 21:00:02 <CTLAdvance> before we get a brain chip, I am sure well just have a pair of glasses that either take over the lense on activation or project into the retina
Aug 24 21:00:30 <CTLAdvance> think of a translucent pair of reading glasses
Aug 24 21:00:45 <CTLAdvance> or transparent
Aug 24 21:00:57 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: people don't want to wear them, otherwise we would... it's too simple to construct :)
Aug 24 21:01:14 <CTLAdvance> The concept was already built
Aug 24 21:01:14 <egaudet> contact lenses
Aug 24 21:01:18 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: it's actually acceptably simple to project a perfectly clear image on peoples's eyes :)
Aug 24 21:01:22 <CTLAdvance> :/ and it failed to take market share
Aug 24 21:01:26 <halfhalo_T400> lies
Aug 24 21:02:10 <CTLAdvance> thats what I am saying, if not a glasses maybe a pair of contacts... they can draw power from your bodies electrical field
Aug 24 21:02:23 <madnificent> egaudet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gepfifzjE-Y&NR=1  << that was the promotional thing about it.. I doubt it'll be here in the next 10 years, but it's a cool thing to work towards
Aug 24 21:02:49 <CTLAdvance> yeah exactly eg
Aug 24 21:02:54 <CTLAdvance> I didnt see your post
Aug 24 21:03:49 <madnificent> we can't make pixels small enough for eyes, I think.  You don't have a normal lighting behind it, and I think the wiring will draw too much light away
Aug 24 21:04:24 <madnificent> if you look at an lcd panel without the backpanel, then it draws away quite a lot of light
Aug 24 21:04:44 <CTLAdvance> everything could be built using the nano sciences, however, peoples eyes may glow red like terminator
Aug 24 21:04:57 <madnificent> also, I think you have an added issue with the pupil becoming larger and smaller... for lenses with electronics in it, that could be a real challenge
Aug 24 21:05:14 <swisstomcat> chuqui: thanks for adding me to the dropbox
Aug 24 21:05:20 <madnificent> not everything... the materials we use can't transport more power through nanotechnology... we can just make them smaller
Aug 24 21:06:01 <CTLAdvance> You can pull energy now from living things like plants esp
Aug 24 21:06:09 <CTLAdvance> they can pull power from trees
Aug 24 21:06:26 <madnificent> you need to direct the power to the right spot, with an eye-lens that becomes hard
Aug 24 21:06:42 <madnificent> the problem is not getting the power, the problem is getting the power at the right place at the right time
Aug 24 21:07:16 * CTLAdvance cant believe were arguing over the future of computer technology
Aug 24 21:07:45 <CTLAdvance> you wouldnt need to direct it if you built the lense to absorb power from the eyeball
Aug 24 21:07:53 <CTLAdvance> however said device would need to be super efficient
Aug 24 21:07:58 <CTLAdvance> which wont happen anytime soon
Aug 24 21:08:01 <alexfner> hmm
Aug 24 21:08:28 <torchie_pre> needs more perpetual motion
Aug 24 21:08:37 <madnificent> how can you absorb power from the eyeball?  You need a positive and a negative endpoint... and the eye doesn't have either of those afaik
Aug 24 21:09:31 <CTLAdvance> madnificent - your thinking of an arbitrary limit
Aug 24 21:09:47 <CTLAdvance> devices can absorb energy from fields around them
Aug 24 21:09:52 <CTLAdvance> no contact is required
Aug 24 21:10:09 <CTLAdvance> and if said device was efficient enough could run on that
Aug 24 21:10:16 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: no, you're assuming we'll invent new materials out of nowhere... mind you, we don't discover new materials that often
Aug 24 21:10:28 <CTLAdvance> This is already happening now
Aug 24 21:10:31 <madnificent> devices don't absorb energy from what's around them
Aug 24 21:10:37 <CTLAdvance> They can absorb energy from device surroundings
Aug 24 21:11:00 <madnificent> in order to absorb energy, you don't really have much options
Aug 24 21:11:01 <CTLAdvance> They can pull energy from trees by absorbing the electrical field around them
Aug 24 21:11:33 <madnificent> except from radiation-energy and the likes (for which the capturing requires some other material), you need always need two poles of something
Aug 24 21:11:39 <madnificent> sheesh, why am I arguing about these things
Aug 24 21:11:46 <madnificent> read a course on thermodynamics and come back
Aug 24 21:11:50 <CTLAdvance> Your thinking through an arbitrary limit
Aug 24 21:12:12 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: you have no clue what thermodynamics is, do you?
Aug 24 21:12:32 <codeslaw_> just glancing at this debate now and then, and see its come to thermodynamics
Aug 24 21:12:33 <codeslaw_> HOW
Aug 24 21:12:44 <madnificent> codeslaw_: yeah, it's sad
Aug 24 21:12:53 <CTLAdvance> oy
Aug 24 21:13:06 <CTLAdvance> I am glad you used google to come up with a counter debate
Aug 24 21:13:08 <CTLAdvance> ;)
Aug 24 21:13:16 <madnificent> I haven't, for the record
Aug 24 21:13:36 <madnificent> but if google agrees with me, then you should assume there's about a bazilion people that agree :) (not that that implies much)
Aug 24 21:13:45 <CTLAdvance> This is dealing with heat transferm not too familiar however its not what I am talking about
Aug 24 21:13:47 <CTLAdvance> it doesnt agree
Aug 24 21:13:49 <madnificent> and how the hell have you found thermodynamics by entering something in google?
Aug 24 21:13:52 <CTLAdvance> just privides the infop
Aug 24 21:13:58 <madnificent> no, thermodynamics does not deal with heat transfer
Aug 24 21:14:02 <madnificent> the laws are far more general
Aug 24 21:14:21 <madnificent> if it were about heat transfer, then nobody would care... as we're not particularly interested in heat
Aug 24 21:14:35 <CTLAdvance> you dont read many scientific journals do you
Aug 24 21:14:55 <madnificent> why do you think that?
Aug 24 21:16:05 <CTLAdvance> I am just wondering
Aug 24 21:16:37 <CTLAdvance> has anyone else heard of the absorbtion of electromagnetic fields around living objects?
Aug 24 21:17:08 <madnificent> either case, thermodynamics has a few laws.  Basically stating: the total amount of energy is fixed.  However, the quality of said energy is virtually always decreasing.  Heat is simple to create.  However, if you want to create motion from heat, you'll need a low-temperature and a high-temperature point.  Interpret it as 'using' the entropy of the environment.
Aug 24 21:17:28 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: you can absorb electromagnetic fields (read the pre's touch-stone)
Aug 24 21:17:40 <CTLAdvance> and thats my point
Aug 24 21:17:50 <CTLAdvance> its electromagnetic induction... essentially
Aug 24 21:17:52 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: however, you need a way to convert that incoming energy to actual energy
Aug 24 21:18:00 <madnificent> well, to usable energy
Aug 24 21:18:00 <CTLAdvance> I am describing the smae only on a much smaller scale
Aug 24 21:18:10 <CTLAdvance> right
Aug 24 21:18:21 <CTLAdvance> and that would need to be improved
Aug 24 21:18:44 <madnificent> now there you have a problem, in order to actually get to the place, you basically need to have a straight line to it.  Therefore, a lens can not use induction to transfer energy from the sides to the place where it needs be.  So you'll need glasses either way.
Aug 24 21:18:51 <CTLAdvance> however, if you could build a device that could run solely on that amount of energy, you wouldnt even need to plug in, ever
Aug 24 21:19:06 <CTLAdvance> your thinking pre
Aug 24 21:19:13 <CTLAdvance> or another arbitrary limit
Aug 24 21:19:20 <madnificent> the problem is not the amount of energy you transfer, it is that you need a coil to get the energy out
Aug 24 21:19:21 <CTLAdvance> if the lense had that onboard
Aug 24 21:19:41 <CTLAdvance> how big of a coild are you thinking
Aug 24 21:19:50 <CTLAdvance> im not talking the amount of energy the pre uses
Aug 24 21:19:52 <madnificent> and you need to have that coil with an insulator on the side of it... and then it boils down to (again) the amount of light that will take away
Aug 24 21:19:57 <madnificent> and we're back at the top :)
Aug 24 21:20:14 <CTLAdvance> and you could do that using nano sciences, everything technically could be on lense
Aug 24 21:20:19 <madnificent> no you can't
Aug 24 21:20:33 <CTLAdvance> ok sure you cant
Aug 24 21:20:37 <CTLAdvance> not now
Aug 24 21:20:41 <CTLAdvance> give them 10 years
Aug 24 21:20:48 <CTLAdvance> if the world isnt over
Aug 24 21:21:24 <CTLAdvance> its the idea of can we obtain our power from our surroundings without the requiring of a power source IE fossil fuels
Aug 24 21:21:44 <egaudet> 10 years heh, we only have a little more than 2 years to go
Aug 24 21:21:47 <CTLAdvance> however we would need to be way more efficient, and quantum mechanics and the nano sciences should eventually achieve this
Aug 24 21:21:52 <CTLAdvance> lol
Aug 24 21:21:59 <madnificent> for starters: you can't cope with the fact that you'll still need full-pixel space. Then you'll need to have tiny circuitry in each pixel to take up the right amount of energy.  Then you still need glasses to send that energy to the lens, because you need a straight line.  AND besides the fact that you need to calibrate that (possible but very hard) you need to convince people to wear some very strange glasses AND lenses in order for
Aug 24 21:21:59 <madnificent> them to operate... I think that's a bit too hard
Aug 24 21:22:19 <CTLAdvance> madnificent
Aug 24 21:22:24 <CTLAdvance> who said anything about pixels
Aug 24 21:22:39 <madnificent> you can also use lasers directly, but then you're at glasses again
Aug 24 21:22:42 <madnificent> point is, you'll need glasse
Aug 24 21:22:45 <madnificent> glasses
Aug 24 21:22:48 <madnificent> and people didn't want glasses
Aug 24 21:22:52 <madnificent> ergo, the lens will not work
Aug 24 21:23:06 <CTLAdvance> your still thinking behiond an arbitrary wall
Aug 24 21:23:09 <CTLAdvance> anyways
Aug 24 21:23:13 <CTLAdvance> we can agree to disagree now
Aug 24 21:23:23 <madnificent> I'm not thinking behind that wall, as that would make no sense :P
Aug 24 21:23:29 <madnificent> but yes, the wall is called reality
Aug 24 21:23:51 <madnificent> no, I can not agree to disagree, you sir, must learn sciences before blabbering on about what you expect from tech in the future
Aug 24 21:23:58 <madnificent> that blabber makes me insane
Aug 24 21:24:08 <CTLAdvance> and today I agree we cant, if were still here in 10 years, maybe 15 ill be ready to issue my i told you so. :P
Aug 24 21:24:25 <madnificent> if we have that in 15 years, I'll be a very happy man
Aug 24 21:24:28 <egaudet> you can't foresee details of future technology, otherwise it wouldn't be future technology
Aug 24 21:24:31 <egaudet> :P
Aug 24 21:24:31 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: what year were you born?
Aug 24 21:24:41 <madnificent> egaudet: 18 months, he said
Aug 24 21:24:41 <sugardave> egaudet: where is my flying car?
Aug 24 21:24:43 <CTLAdvance> 1968
Aug 24 21:24:56 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: then you must've seen that technology doesn't evolve that fast?
Aug 24 21:25:00 <sugardave> *gasp* CTLAdvance out-ages me?
Aug 24 21:25:02 <sugardave> preposterous!
Aug 24 21:25:03 <egaudet> your flying car ist aking off at the airport ;)
Aug 24 21:25:15 <madnificent> we don't discover new things that often, far from... we only optimize them
Aug 24 21:25:28 <CTLAdvance> The thing is, we have everything we need now
Aug 24 21:25:32 <CTLAdvance> we just need to shrink it
Aug 24 21:25:35 <madnificent> no, we don't
Aug 24 21:25:37 <CTLAdvance> and make it more efficient
Aug 24 21:25:48 <madnificent> because we can't just shrink it... we're working at the scale of friggin atoms
Aug 24 21:26:03 <madnificent> and you can't make materials more efficient... you just can't
Aug 24 21:26:04 <CTLAdvance> exactly
Aug 24 21:26:06 <sugardave> egaudet: you're supposed to say "It's in the FUTURE"
Aug 24 21:26:07 <egaudet> 18 months is too ambitious :P
Aug 24 21:26:11 <CTLAdvance> which brings in quantum physics
Aug 24 21:26:16 <madnificent> egaudet: moore's law
Aug 24 21:26:27 <egaudet> moore lied
Aug 24 21:26:33 <sugardave> bastard
Aug 24 21:26:47 <madnificent> egaudet: not really, it's fairly correct... only, it doesn't say anything about speed :)
Aug 24 21:27:08 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: and now you're spinning off the charts with something that doesn't even solve anything in this case...
Aug 24 21:27:14 <madnificent> sheesh, this is frustrating
Aug 24 21:27:33 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: I really hope you don't talk much to people who don't have a clue... you can get all the catch-phrases in there, but no sanity
Aug 24 21:27:46 <CTLAdvance> yeah I was thinking the same talking to you
Aug 24 21:27:52 <egaudet> double the transistors is only a single step
Aug 24 21:27:57 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: only, I know what I'm talking about...
Aug 24 21:28:11 <madnificent> egaudet: yes it is, but what he said was correct :)
Aug 24 21:28:20 <egaudet> ok ok fine
Aug 24 21:28:57 <egaudet> "at least 10 years" is lasting a long time :P
Aug 24 21:29:29 <madnificent> egaudet: which is actually quite cool, because we humans don't seem to be good in making things smaller :)  We only tend to make things bigger (like our software)
Aug 24 21:29:52 <madnificent> egaudet: or like most machines we build
Aug 24 21:31:08 <egaudet> they keep getting smaller just to keep up with us continuing to make everything bigger
Aug 24 21:31:39 <madnificent> one of the key successes of computer sciences, is that we know what we'll have in 5 years
Aug 24 21:32:03 <madnificent> if I notice that a certain algorithm is too slow, but I can't optimize it, then I still know how much years it will take me for it to be usable
Aug 24 21:32:07 <egaudet> until we reach the singularity!
Aug 24 21:32:10 <egaudet> :P
Aug 24 21:33:08 <madnificent> egaudet: I have no idea what I should respond to that :)
Aug 24 21:33:50 <egaudet> lol
Aug 24 21:34:02 <madnificent> what an utterly briliant response
Aug 24 21:34:59 <madnificent> that would obviously change tha game... Yet I think I'll ascend first (stargate atlantis style)
Aug 24 21:38:08 <sugardave> but...but...Rapture!
Aug 24 21:38:38 <madnificent> no sugardave, egaudet is the briliant one for today :P
Aug 24 21:39:42 <swisstomcat> i like rapture ... art deco has to be one of my favourite periods
Aug 24 21:44:00 <egaudet> yay my work is done
Aug 24 21:44:07 <egaudet> retired
Aug 24 21:44:19 <CTLAdvance> ok madnificent, have a good evening
Aug 24 21:44:38 <madnificent> CTLAdvance: I don't know what the ok was for.  But good evening!
Aug 24 21:45:10 <CTLAdvance> wow that was a delay
Aug 24 21:45:15 <CTLAdvance> anyways
Aug 24 21:45:19 <CTLAdvance> have a good evening
Aug 24 21:49:17 * sugardave learns about changeVersion and says "Oh."
Aug 24 21:50:30 * CTLAdvance oh
Aug 24 21:54:06 <haeffb_pre> in db?
Aug 24 21:54:33 <sugardave> yah
Aug 24 21:55:40 <haeffb_pre> so it is possible then..?
Aug 24 21:56:53 <sugardave> well, I think so.  I found the command in Apple's docs then a mention about it the dev forum
Aug 24 21:57:12 <sugardave> I have overcome Relego's schema issue and reset the version back to 1.0
Aug 24 21:57:31 <sugardave> so I'm not worried about it now, but will be useful in the future (maybe)
Aug 24 21:58:05 <sugardave> I will most likely abandon sqlite for whatever nosql db we get in a future webOS
Aug 24 21:58:07 <sugardave> IF we do
Aug 24 21:59:21 <haeffb_pre> I will need to discuss with you later
Aug 24 21:59:44 <sugardave> sure thing
Aug 24 22:01:37 <madnificent> sugardave: couldn't you install couch on the pre?
Aug 24 22:02:07 <sugardave> madnificent: somebody might be able to, but I would not be that person :D
Aug 24 22:02:20 <madnificent> sugardave: ^_^
Aug 24 22:02:27 <sugardave> I could write ajax to talk to it, no problem
Aug 24 22:02:31 <madnificent> sugardave: maybe hint it at webosinternals?
Aug 24 22:02:44 <madnificent> sugardave: setting up couchdb is no work, I think
Aug 24 22:02:57 <sugardave> madnificent: compiling it is...just went through that fiasco on my webhost
Aug 24 22:03:30 <sugardave> I'd want to use it for catalog apps anyway, so gotta wait
Aug 24 22:03:50 <sugardave> assuming we get it in the first place...I have no clue
Aug 24 22:05:40 <madnificent> sugardave: it's free, if there's some questions from the devs, we will
Aug 24 22:09:14 <sugardave> madnificent: I'm just speculating that there's going to be something like couch or mongo backing this db8 thing..."quickly sync that local database to the cloud" sounds like replication to me.  I figure we'll have some kind of way to manipulate the local one directly (I hope)
Aug 24 22:09:42 <madnificent> sugardave: I hope hp doesn't win... then we'll certainly get couch (as it can do that)
Aug 24 22:09:58 <madnificent> no, I don't know with the cloud company... I don't know it that well
Aug 24 22:10:24 <madnificent> I whish I could say that it was a briliant move, it certainly draws the lines of the reinvented HP
Aug 24 22:10:32 <madnificent> but I don't know if it is smart to buy that sort of company
Aug 24 22:10:48 <sugardave> what are you talking about?
Aug 24 22:11:27 <madnificent> hp's bid for 3par
Aug 24 22:11:40 <sugardave> ah, haven't seen that...let me check it out
Aug 24 22:11:45 <madnificent> you weren't trying to imply that?
Aug 24 22:12:03 <madnificent> ahm, it perfectly fits in what you're asking...
Aug 24 22:13:01 * madnificent wonders if 3par's hardwire is magic or something... that would grant hp's move
Aug 24 22:17:20 <Mousey> 3par and hp? huh?
Aug 24 22:18:18 <madnificent> seriously, I haven't been dreaming, have I
Aug 24 22:18:21 * madnificent searches
Aug 24 22:18:27 <sugardave> madnificent: I was talking about db8 which has been said will be included in a future webOS version...it has also been said that it will be able to easily sync data to couchdb
Aug 24 22:18:34 <sugardave> no, I jsut the 3par/hp stuff
Aug 24 22:18:41 <sugardave> hp outbids dell by a whole lot
Aug 24 22:18:46 <sugardave> we'll see
Aug 24 22:19:18 <madnificent> sugardave: can you link me to a db8 site?
Aug 24 22:19:44 <sugardave> I think that may be a codename, I'm not sure
Aug 24 22:19:44 <halfhalo_srv> They are all fake ah tells ya
Aug 24 22:20:15 <sugardave> madnificent: http://www.precentral.net/webos-get-mic-camera-api-faster-services-plenty-more-fall
Aug 24 22:20:26 <sugardave> that's an old precentral article talking about dev days presentation
Aug 24 22:20:37 <sugardave> where they talked about db8, so there's a blurb on it in the article
Aug 24 22:20:38 <halfhalo_srv> That's what she said
Aug 24 22:21:11 * halfhalo_srv should be ignored.  He be crazy
Aug 24 22:21:24 <madnificent> sugardave: wicked!
Aug 24 22:21:54 <madnificent> halfhalo_srv: say wa?
Aug 24 22:22:04 <halfhalo_srv> You heard me
Aug 24 22:22:16 <madnificent> XD
Aug 24 22:22:41 <madnificent> sugardave: it could all fit in the same story (wicked)
Aug 24 22:23:25 <sugardave> yeah, I'm hedging right now by playing around with some node and couch...gotta learn :D
Aug 24 22:24:34 * halfhalo_srv should join and yell 'what da hell be goin on here'
Aug 24 22:25:03 <halfhalo_srv> Hmmmm
Aug 24 22:25:09 <halfhalo_srv> Tempting....
Aug 24 22:25:40 <sugardave> dkirker has fried his brain
Aug 24 22:25:57 <halfhalo_srv> Really?
Aug 24 22:25:58 <dkirker> *bbbzt*
Aug 24 22:26:05 <halfhalo_srv> Pics or it didn't happen
Aug 24 22:26:20 <sugardave> or he's turned into a cold-blooded reptile
Aug 24 22:26:36 <halfhalo_srv> Lol
Aug 24 22:26:51 <dkirker> http://wearenotarockband.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/fried-brain.jpg
Aug 24 22:27:37 <halfhalo_srv> That's epicly shopped
Aug 24 22:27:40 <swisstomcat> n8 everyone
Aug 24 22:27:44 <halfhalo_srv> Night
Aug 24 22:27:50 <dkirker> good night swisstomcat
Aug 24 22:27:52 <sugardave> night
Aug 24 22:27:57 <halfhalo_srv> The pixels are way off
Aug 24 22:28:17 <sugardave> I've seen a lot of photoshops in my day...
Aug 24 22:28:17 <halfhalo_srv> The pixels!  PIXELS!
Aug 24 22:28:49 <dkirker> I barely even looked at the image
Aug 24 22:28:56 <dkirker> for all I know, it could be somebody nekked
Aug 24 22:31:29 * halfhalo_T400 is sitting in his comp class bustin' out the pretzel gold fish and coke
Aug 24 22:32:27 <halfhalo_T400> crazy asian chick n front of me
Aug 24 22:32:41 <dkirker> lol
Aug 24 22:32:51 * dkirker still has about a month until class
Aug 24 22:33:31 <halfhalo_T400> Where do you go?
Aug 24 22:35:54 <dkirker> Cal Poly SLO
Aug 24 22:36:10 <halfhalo_T400> Haha
Aug 24 22:36:20 <halfhalo_T400> You have to deal with the same peoplesoft crap I do
Aug 24 22:36:26 <dkirker> yup
Aug 24 22:36:30 <dkirker> it is ok
Aug 24 22:36:33 <halfhalo_T400> NO
Aug 24 22:36:35 <halfhalo_T400> NO IT IS NOT
Aug 24 22:36:38 <dkirker> lol
Aug 24 22:36:46 * halfhalo_T400 runs crying from the room
Aug 24 22:36:47 <sugardave> I've heard of it before....
Aug 24 22:37:12 <halfhalo_T400> Good news though, contract is up in 18 months
Aug 24 22:37:28 <dkirker> What really sucks is the Cisco Clean Access that the campus uses...
Aug 24 22:37:57 * madnificent has exams :(
Aug 24 22:38:01 <halfhalo_T400> Oh, CSUN rolled out an encrypted network last year that removes that requirement
Aug 24 22:38:12 <halfhalo_T400> I mean, the network sucks, but still
Aug 24 22:38:17 <halfhalo_T400> better than that crap
Aug 24 22:39:00 <dkirker> Cal Poly should select a team of network engineers that is comprised mostly of students to do this stuff
Aug 24 22:39:11 <halfhalo_T400> heh
Aug 24 22:39:14 <halfhalo_T400> with what money
Aug 24 22:39:37 <halfhalo_T400> I do get to play wuth csuns grid lab though
Aug 24 22:40:01 <dkirker> with the same money that they pay the contractors with
Aug 24 22:40:09 <dkirker> they could probably get away cheaper
Aug 24 22:40:15 <halfhalo_T400> The money that doesn't exist?
Aug 24 22:40:16 <halfhalo_T400> :p
Aug 24 22:40:36 <dkirker> something like that
Aug 24 22:40:48 * halfhalo_T400 is a student assistant at csun
Aug 24 22:41:45 <halfhalo_T400> God, I already hate this class
Aug 24 22:41:49 <dkirker> Before my little break from class, I was an assistant sys admin with the CSc department. It was fun.
Aug 24 22:41:57 <dkirker> errr... "funish"
Aug 24 22:41:57 <halfhalo_T400> "Concepts of programming languages"
Aug 24 22:42:06 <dkirker> oo, I get to take that class this quarter
Aug 24 22:42:06 <halfhalo_T400> I work in IT
Aug 24 22:42:18 <maik> http://woodgears.ca/eyeball/index.html
Aug 24 22:42:18 <maik> have fun
Aug 24 22:42:19 <halfhalo_T400> my little it dept is all webdev
Aug 24 22:42:24 <sugardave> halfhalo_T400: a whole class of concepts?
Aug 24 22:42:51 <halfhalo_T400> God, I hope not
Aug 24 22:43:02 <sugardave> that would suck
Aug 24 22:43:37 <halfhalo_T400> I managed to pick the two classes out of all comp classes where programming is not the focus
Aug 24 22:44:04 * halfhalo_T400 wants a class on js
Aug 24 22:44:46 <halfhalo_T400> Ok, why is the ipad being retarted right now
Aug 24 22:45:42 <maik> it's an iPad
Aug 24 22:45:43 <halfhalo_T400> Oh god we have to give a presentation in this class
Aug 24 22:45:49 <maik> also: http://woodgears.ca/jenga_pistol/index.html
Aug 24 22:46:21 <sugardave> halfhalo_T400: "The Concepts of Conceptualization"
Aug 24 22:46:25 <halfhalo_T400> I will do it on OO so I can bs it with js on the fly
Aug 24 22:47:28 <halfhalo_T400> fuck... name "excersice"
Aug 24 22:49:41 <halfhalo_T400> my god
Aug 24 22:49:46 <dkirker> you rang?
Aug 24 22:49:46 <halfhalo_T400> people are fucking this up
Aug 24 22:51:58 <LoneStar99> good afternoon folks
Aug 24 22:52:05 <halfhalo_T400> YAY WEB LANGUAGES!
Aug 24 22:52:59 <halfhalo_T400> We are supposed to say our name and the languages we know, the the last 5 peoples names
Aug 24 22:53:12 <halfhalo_T400> most people are like "I know java and c"
Aug 24 22:53:13 <dkirker> ugh
Aug 24 22:53:26 <sugardave> Dave - English
Aug 24 22:53:35 <halfhalo_T400> I just start listing every web language I can think of
Aug 24 22:54:05 <halfhalo_T400> Their all close enough so it don't matter, and it makes it hard for the people after me since they dont remember my name
Aug 24 22:54:20 <halfhalo_T400> because bsing web languages is easy
Aug 24 22:54:36 <halfhalo_T400> "How Hard can it be?"
Aug 24 22:54:48 <dkirker> Hi, I am Donald, and I know C, C++, Java, JavaScript, HTML, CSS, assembly, Perl, English, and probably a few others that I have forgotten...
Aug 24 22:54:54 <LoneStar99> diego, - html
Aug 24 22:55:05 <dawm|laptop> hrm
Aug 24 22:55:14 <dkirker> Ok everyone! Sound off! :D
Aug 24 22:55:19 <dawm|laptop> anyone know if theres a command to create a dir with novacom?
Aug 24 22:55:23 <sugardave> "Can you ever really know a language?"
Aug 24 22:55:54 <dawm|laptop> i know theres, get, put, run  but i need to create a dir ;p
Aug 24 22:56:12 <sugardave> did you try mkdir
Aug 24 22:56:14 <halfhalo_T400> Hi, Im Patrick and I know JS, PHP, HTML, Ruby, Rails, Ajax, JQuery, Prototype, Applescript, Microsoftscript, Java, and C
Aug 24 22:56:14 <sugardave> or md
Aug 24 22:56:40 <dawm|laptop> unrecognized command
Aug 24 22:56:41 <LoneStar99> diego - i know nothing,
Aug 24 22:56:45 <dkirker> ooo, I forgot PHP!
Aug 24 22:56:56 <sugardave> dawm|laptop: where did you find the <command>s?
Aug 24 22:56:57 <halfhalo_T400> Microsoftscript is better
Aug 24 22:57:06 <dawm|laptop> i type it in and see what it says ;p
Aug 24 22:57:10 <sugardave> haha
Aug 24 22:57:17 <sugardave> put won't do it?
Aug 24 22:57:22 <dawm|laptop> get, put, run are published cmds
Aug 24 22:57:29 <dawm|laptop> nope i tried
Aug 24 22:58:22 <sugardave> what is run for?
Aug 24 22:58:23 <halfhalo_T400> Microsoftscript is an innovative scripting language used to excecute specific commands easily using a revolutionary imput device on an xy axis
Aug 24 22:59:08 <dawm|laptop> imput
Aug 24 22:59:56 <LoneStar99> sugardave: i got lastnight issue solved by --> var ptyVal = this.modelPty.originalValue;  fiesta(ptyVal)
Aug 24 23:00:38 <dawm|laptop> why do they even air made episodes that are FAIL
Aug 24 23:01:16 <halfhalo_T400> oh snap, forgot I have safari ebooks
Aug 24 23:04:50 <dawm|laptop> woot
Aug 24 23:04:59 <dawm|laptop> hung my app again on the pre
Aug 24 23:05:08 <dawm|laptop> stupid keyboard
Aug 24 23:05:33 <halfhalo_T400> omg
Aug 24 23:05:47 <halfhalo_T400> 3.99 per item one day shipping
Aug 24 23:07:26 <dawm|laptop> ugh i hate popping the battery out
Aug 24 23:08:23 <dawm|laptop> woo it finally exited
Aug 24 23:15:29 <codeslaw> oh yee
Aug 24 23:16:44 <haeffb> yee?
Aug 24 23:17:04 <dawm|laptop> hrm..
Aug 24 23:17:09 <dawm|laptop> Nyceane: you there?
Aug 24 23:37:33 <sugardave> I can't seem to make the app catalog work
Aug 24 23:37:54 <Wolvenhaven> the official one?
Aug 24 23:37:59 <sugardave> yeah
Aug 24 23:38:02 <Wolvenhaven> it's broken
Aug 24 23:38:08 <sugardave> lame
Aug 24 23:38:08 <Wolvenhaven> i couldn't get it to work yesterday
Aug 24 23:38:12 <Wolvenhaven> it kept crashing on me
Aug 24 23:38:20 <sugardave> but people are downloading angry birds
Aug 24 23:38:22 <sugardave> and I want it
Aug 24 23:38:25 <Wolvenhaven> lol
Aug 24 23:38:33 <Wolvenhaven> i got it to work eventually
Aug 24 23:38:37 <Wolvenhaven> but it took like 5 tries
Aug 24 23:38:41 <sugardave> I'm just getting the inifinite spinner
Aug 24 23:39:14 <LoneStar99> anyone know what the user agent for webos devices is?
Aug 24 23:42:06 <Gu1l7y_work> ping!
Aug 24 23:43:08 <dawm|laptop> works for me dave :P
Aug 24 23:43:22 <dawm|laptop> and there it is.. angry birds
Aug 24 23:43:28 <sugardave> fine
Aug 24 23:43:43 <sugardave> just finished rebooting, let's see
Aug 24 23:43:48 <sugardave> no featured pics
Aug 24 23:43:51 <sugardave> looking bad
Aug 24 23:44:10 <dawm|laptop> turn on wifi?
Aug 24 23:44:19 <sugardave> it's on
Aug 24 23:44:23 <sugardave> oh
Aug 24 23:44:27 <sugardave> I got a failure this time
Aug 24 23:45:11 <dawm|laptop> downloaded :)
Aug 24 23:45:23 <dawm|laptop> in yo face!
Aug 24 23:45:37 <sugardave> hmm...I can download app updates
Aug 24 23:45:39 <sugardave> wth
Aug 24 23:45:56 <sugardave> ah it's alive now
Aug 24 23:45:59 <sugardave> yay!
Aug 24 23:46:29 <Gu1l7y_work> I'm vzw an I don't wanna hear about the Angry Birds you people speak of....
Aug 24 23:46:32 <dawm|laptop> nice
Aug 24 23:46:41 <dawm|laptop> i downloaded that frootrees
Aug 24 23:46:52 <dawm|laptop> it just froze at its loading screen
Aug 24 23:46:59 <dawm|laptop> pre is locked until the app segfaults
Aug 24 23:47:19 <sugardave> lame
Aug 24 23:47:27 <LoneStar99> useragent specs and what not http://uoid.me/palm15
Aug 24 23:48:06 <dawm|laptop> kinda
Aug 24 23:48:15 <dawm|laptop> the useragent will change with updates
Aug 24 23:48:22 <dawm|laptop> but thats generally it
Aug 25 00:01:26 <dawm|laptop> awesome.. my pre keeps locking up hardcore
Aug 25 00:01:45 <dawm|laptop> oh luna just crashed
Aug 25 00:05:56 <bmyers> hi haeffb
Aug 25 00:10:52 <haeffb> hello bmyers
Aug 25 00:11:12 <haeffb> just rolled into the house
Aug 25 00:11:28 <bmyers> me too really.
Aug 25 00:11:34 <bmyers> just got back from nova scotia
Aug 25 00:17:24 <haeffb> nice vacation?
Aug 25 00:19:00 <dawm|laptop> only a few more days before im a home owner ;D .. i cannot wait until friday ;P
Aug 25 00:19:24 <dawm|laptop> still trying to decide what to move first, and which cable/inet provider to go with
Aug 25 00:19:35 <dawm|laptop> i cannot fully move in without internet ;P
Aug 25 00:20:16 <Tibfib> yayya angry birds :)
Aug 25 00:20:52 <Tibfib> that guy made a lot of money today
Aug 25 00:21:59 <bmyers> haeffb:  yes. blessed with great weather. sailing, touristy type day trips.
Aug 25 00:22:11 <bmyers> now back to sobering reality
Aug 25 00:24:00 <rwhitby> Tibfib: they will likely make an extra $100K in a month or so too
Aug 25 00:24:06 * haeffb hasan't played yet
Aug 25 00:24:14 <haeffb> but I did buy
Aug 25 00:24:17 <sugardave> it's fun
Aug 25 00:24:26 <sugardave> I played the first 4 levels before dinner
Aug 25 00:24:31 <haeffb> it'll be interesting to see sales numbers....
Aug 25 00:24:37 <sugardave> large
Aug 25 00:24:41 <haeffb> ...are they still posting those on hotapps?
Aug 25 00:25:29 <haeffb> er...nope...they never were
Aug 25 00:25:49 <rwhitby> app cat downloads patch says 1671 downloads so far
Aug 25 00:25:55 <rwhitby> dunno how accurate that is
Aug 25 00:26:06 <dawm|laptop> it has no updates
Aug 25 00:26:11 <dawm|laptop> so should be good enough
Aug 25 00:41:39 <Tibfib> dangit. I'm stuck on 1-7
Aug 25 00:41:52 <dawm|laptop> heh
Aug 25 00:42:06 <dawm|laptop> i think i played one level atleast 50 times on my ipod before i beat it
Aug 25 00:42:18 <Tibfib> I'm totally past 50 times
Aug 25 00:42:20 <Tibfib> lol
Aug 25 00:43:41 <haeffb> no angry birds for pixi
Aug 25 00:45:46 <haeffb> me too stuck on 1-7
Aug 25 00:47:09 <Tibfib> Got it!
Aug 25 00:47:17 <Tibfib> 1 * :(
Aug 25 00:51:01 <dawm|laptop> yeah i beat 1 thru 21 on my ipod
Aug 25 00:51:20 <sugardave> I just got to 1-11 I think
Aug 25 00:52:17 <dawm|laptop> get used to pausing and restarting :P
Aug 25 00:52:25 <dawm|laptop> must faster than playing thru when you f'd up
Aug 25 00:53:05 <Tibfib> yeah, I have a lot lol
Aug 25 00:57:30 <digitalpowers> lol
Aug 25 00:57:39 <digitalpowers> i was so excited to see my app show up in the catelog
Aug 25 00:57:54 <digitalpowers> i got 4 dl's today, one was me, and 3 were friends i forced to dl it
Aug 25 00:58:49 <LoneStar99> digitalpowers:  it is all good
Aug 25 00:58:53 <dawm|laptop> whatapp
Aug 25 00:59:04 <digitalpowers> i think angry birds may have over shadowed it (that is what i am telling myself)
Aug 25 00:59:17 <digitalpowers> dawm|laptop its my game "Shape Sorter"
Aug 25 00:59:23 <dawm|laptop> oh i saw that
Aug 25 00:59:28 <dawm|laptop> is it sdk or pdk
Aug 25 01:00:07 <digitalpowers> pdk
Aug 25 01:00:10 <digitalpowers> 2d though
Aug 25 01:01:13 <rwhitby> yeah, today is not a good day to be entering the app catalog :)
Aug 25 01:01:40 <digitalpowers> for sure
Aug 25 01:02:16 <rwhitby> angry birds should have accel-based "tilt" capability
Aug 25 01:02:23 <LoneStar99> rwhitby: lol
Aug 25 01:02:35 <rwhitby> just like an old pinball machine
Aug 25 01:11:36 <HattCzech> sweetness... part of my app is actually working
Aug 25 01:11:49 <HattCzech> now to put some sort of interface together
Aug 25 01:12:32 <HattCzech> pdk users... how do i create buttons and fields? :/
Aug 25 01:12:43 <dawm|laptop> manually
Aug 25 01:13:05 <HattCzech> i figured, but are there any tips?
Aug 25 01:13:20 <HattCzech> (this is where hybrid = win)
Aug 25 01:13:46 <dawm|laptop> you might find some library but as far as ive read you gotta do it all
Aug 25 01:14:03 <digitalpowers> HattCzech the best tip i can give is remember you might have different size screens while you plan the buttons
Aug 25 01:14:24 <dawm|laptop> so use percentages of the screen ;p
Aug 25 01:14:31 <HattCzech> good point
Aug 25 01:14:46 <dawm|laptop> easiest would to just scale
Aug 25 01:14:52 <HattCzech> but do i just draw 2 triangles and then throw text over it?
Aug 25 01:15:01 <dawm|laptop> sure
Aug 25 01:15:04 <HattCzech> (2 triangles to make a block)
Aug 25 01:15:19 <dawm|laptop> and then catch a mousedown in the area (x,y) of the image
Aug 25 01:15:22 <digitalpowers> that is how i have done it
Aug 25 01:15:37 <dawm|laptop> is it ogl or sdl
Aug 25 01:15:43 <HattCzech> ohhh, this is going to be fun :) hahaha
Aug 25 01:15:55 <HattCzech> and i thought the back-end was tricky
Aug 25 01:16:14 <dawm|laptop> imagine a text field, with selection..
Aug 25 01:16:40 <HattCzech> unfortunately... i need one of those
Aug 25 01:16:42 <dawm|laptop> the horror
Aug 25 01:16:48 <HattCzech> meh, selection can come later :)
Aug 25 01:17:12 <HattCzech> any code sharers around?
Aug 25 01:17:36 <LoneStar99> HattCzech:  =( not PDK developer yet....
Aug 25 01:17:44 <dawm|laptop> is it ogl or sdl HattCzech
Aug 25 01:17:52 <dawm|laptop> id share if i had something, still learning c++ ;p
Aug 25 01:17:53 <HattCzech> sdl
Aug 25 01:18:06 <HattCzech> don't worry, i'm re-learning it, too :)
Aug 25 01:18:09 <dawm|laptop> you could draw a rect instead of two triangles
Aug 25 01:18:19 <HattCzech> oh?
Aug 25 01:19:05 <HattCzech> how might i do that?
Aug 25 01:19:08 <dawm|laptop> hold
Aug 25 01:19:12 <HattCzech> okay
Aug 25 01:20:12 <dawm|laptop> SDL_Rect *RectButton; Uint32 RectButtonColor;
Aug 25 01:20:38 <dawm|laptop> RectButton.x = 0; RectButton.y = 0; RectButton.w = 100; RectButton.h = 100;
Aug 25 01:20:59 <dawm|laptop> RectButtonColor = SDL_MapRGB(....);
Aug 25 01:21:21 <dawm|laptop> SDL_FillRect(Surface,&RectButton,RectButtonColor);
Aug 25 01:21:43 <dawm|laptop> i didnt fill in the SDL_MapRGB() cause im not intirely sure of the options
Aug 25 01:22:08 <dawm|laptop> i have SDL_MapRGB(ScreenFormat, 255,255,255); which makes a white box
Aug 25 01:22:10 <HattCzech> fair enough
Aug 25 01:22:15 <HattCzech> let me give that a shot
Aug 25 01:22:22 <dawm|laptop> i don know what ScreenFormat is
Aug 25 01:22:51 <digitalpowers> HattCzech unless you are doing OpenGL then you need to do two triangles, the rect bussiness only works for SDL
Aug 25 01:23:17 <HattCzech> pretty sure it's sdl
Aug 25 01:27:01 <HattCzech> anyone using windows and plink?
Aug 25 01:27:11 <HattCzech> plink does not want to work for me, but putty will
Aug 25 01:27:44 <dawm|laptop> why
Aug 25 01:27:54 <dawm|laptop> uploading to the device?
Aug 25 01:28:36 <dawm|laptop> you can use novacom put file://location/filename < source_filename
Aug 25 01:28:38 <dawm|laptop> to upload
Aug 25 01:28:56 <dawm|laptop> novacom put file:///media/internal/test.txt < test.txt
Aug 25 01:29:06 <dawm|laptop> uploads test.txt into /media/internal/test.txt
Aug 25 01:29:17 <HattCzech> running a command
Aug 25 01:29:33 <dawm|laptop> novacom run file://location/executable
Aug 25 01:29:34 <HattCzech> it was in some of the pdk cmd files, but they don't work
Aug 25 01:30:20 <HattCzech> thanks, that worked
Aug 25 01:30:32 <dawm|laptop> i prefer novaterm tho
Aug 25 01:30:41 <dawm|laptop> cause then i can see printf's
Aug 25 01:30:57 <dawm|laptop> way quicker than putty too
Aug 25 01:31:01 <HattCzech> i was running it through putty, but putty or command line works
Aug 25 01:37:44 <dawm|laptop> man i havent done a domain transfer in ages.. its gotten much more complicated than in NetSol days
Aug 25 01:38:03 <dawm|laptop> i mean sending faxs was annoying but now you gotta have all these auth codes and crap
Aug 25 01:38:20 <Nyceane> hey guys
Aug 25 01:38:37 <Nyceane> wait, one sec
Aug 25 01:38:39 <dawm|laptop> hey Nyceane in your test app what file format was the image
Aug 25 01:38:46 <dawm|laptop> bmp?
Aug 25 01:42:53 <Nyceane> yah
Aug 25 01:44:29 <dawm|laptop> oh ok
Aug 25 01:44:35 <dawm|laptop> i was using the png from the tiltodemo
Aug 25 01:44:40 <dawm|laptop> but it didnt show up
Aug 25 01:45:16 <Nyceane> use bmp
Aug 25 01:45:19 <Nyceane> i dont think sdl takes png
Aug 25 01:45:20 <dawm|laptop> i know
Aug 25 01:45:26 <dawm|laptop> but that whole tiltodemo uses pngs..
Aug 25 01:45:48 <Nyceane> are you creating free app?
Aug 25 01:46:04 <dawm|laptop> im creating "a" app heh
Aug 25 01:46:06 <Nyceane> they have a lot of code going through it, which I wouldnt understand
Aug 25 01:46:08 <rwhitby> anyone know who is running http://www.webosworld.com/ ?
Aug 25 01:46:19 <dawm|laptop> not sure if it will be worth charging for
Aug 25 01:46:21 <Nyceane> if you are creating a free app, you might as well release it as soon as you can
Aug 25 01:46:36 <Nyceane> some dude released bunch of stupid app like soothing fire, soothing ocean
Aug 25 01:46:36 <dawm|laptop> im still learning c++ so its no where near being released
Aug 25 01:46:42 <dawm|laptop> yah
Aug 25 01:46:44 <Nyceane> the guy who made raining mood...
Aug 25 01:46:47 <Nyceane> i m like wtf...
Aug 25 01:46:53 <dawm|laptop> didnt you post kryptonite?
Aug 25 01:47:01 <Nyceane> yah, at least mine is 3D
Aug 25 01:47:12 <dawm|laptop> isnt yours just a green version of the simple app?
Aug 25 01:47:25 <Nyceane> I actually had a lot more code for cryptonite
Aug 25 01:47:28 <Nyceane> kryptonite
Aug 25 01:47:38 <Nyceane> the problem is they are under windows.h
Aug 25 01:47:40 <dawm|laptop> i havent tried it yet
Aug 25 01:47:44 <Nyceane> i was not able to convert it
Aug 25 01:48:06 <Nyceane> sparking effect, all these other things digitalpowers were helping me to convert
Aug 25 01:48:26 <dawm|laptop> but yeah, the tiltodemo is supposed to be usable code, and it looked really well layed out so i stripped it down into a base for me to work with
Aug 25 01:48:43 <dawm|laptop> but i wanna know why they used pngs if pngs dont work on the device
Aug 25 01:50:28 <Nyceane> I just release an app so i can release a pdk app, before it gets too late lol
Aug 25 01:50:44 <Nyceane> i have a shooter, and sparking effect =(
Aug 25 01:50:50 <Nyceane> which is in windows exe form
Aug 25 02:00:15 <dawm|laptop> i just dont want to release something thats crap
Aug 25 02:00:40 <dawm|laptop> or that doesnt do anything worthwhile
Aug 25 02:01:29 <dawm|laptop> its hard to shake the 'suckage' rep
Aug 25 02:03:09 <dawm|laptop> rwhitby: as for webosworld i dont know, but they appear to be following alot on twitter, they've manged to find me and follow both my personal acct and app company acct
Aug 25 02:03:45 <dawm|laptop> they're supposed to be announcing something tomorrow that will 'have the internet buzzing'
Aug 25 02:03:59 <dawm|laptop> call them and find out?
Aug 25 02:04:06 <dawm|laptop> (201) 57-WEBOS
Aug 25 02:04:49 <dawm|laptop> Tune in at 11 am EST to see our exclusive news dealing with the Palm c40!
Aug 25 02:04:57 <dawm|laptop> that was posted 3minutes ago
Aug 25 02:12:14 <dawm|laptop> ooooh http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/066/0/6/Palm_webOS_Tablet_by_DavidVogt.jpg
Aug 25 02:14:10 <dawm|laptop> heh its funny.. all the recent stories on the c40 are using Davids MOCKUP and MOCKUP Specs..
Aug 25 02:14:54 <renegaid> the top paid app has 600 downloads
Aug 25 02:15:03 <renegaid> isn't that really low
Aug 25 02:16:01 <dawm|laptop> .. HP Palm C40 to be 4G
Aug 25 02:16:09 <renegaid> poor palm. shouldn't have focused so much on games. people lose interest in them
Aug 25 02:16:56 <dawm|laptop> what P120
Aug 25 02:17:01 <dawm|laptop> er whats P120
Aug 25 02:17:43 <renegaid> what is C40
Aug 25 02:19:09 <dawm|laptop> supposidly the next webos phone
Aug 25 02:20:26 <renegaid> have not heard anything about it
Aug 25 02:20:39 <renegaid> no specs or screenshot
Aug 25 02:32:47 <LoneStar99> firefox --> is totally sucking these days, tabs are never saved on exit like before, have not touched any settings in years...
Aug 25 02:34:30 <LoneStar99> the "awesome bar" is not to awesome never really guesses urls etc...
Aug 25 02:35:03 <madnificent> LoneStar99: in case you like to script: try uzbl :)  You seem just about frustrated enough to give it swirl :P
Aug 25 02:38:01 <HattCzech> dawm: still around?
Aug 25 02:39:56 <HattCzech> anyone else used SDL_Rect?
Aug 25 02:49:52 <LoneStar99> madnificent: uzbl seems interesting, what langage?
Aug 25 02:53:19 <haeffb> rwhitby: is webosworld spamming all of precentral?
Aug 25 02:53:36 <haeffb> http://forums.precentral.net/tiger-country-software/239931-done-toodledo-35.html
Aug 25 02:58:21 <bmyers> well thats lame
Aug 25 02:59:11 <haeffb> apparently it's just me...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 25 02:59:57 2010