**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 10 02:59:57 2010 Oct 10 04:01:16 rwhitby: I think I have the basic "how to display right now in any timezone and adjust properly for DST" part working Oct 10 04:02:17 It should be approximately 5:45 PM October 10 in the Chatham Islands you're so fond of :D Oct 10 04:03:18 Chatham Islands are crazy Oct 10 04:03:47 that's because they're in New Zealand Oct 10 04:03:54 crazies, I tell ya Oct 10 04:10:29 Mizzou 5-0 Oct 10 04:10:54 TX sucks Oct 10 04:11:02 it's sad Oct 10 04:13:45 * phil_bw yawns Oct 10 04:14:25 arms numb from slingin birds for an hour... Oct 10 04:15:02 I still haven't finished ANgry Birds Oct 10 04:15:45 I'm still playing the free one Oct 10 04:16:06 have 3 stars on all levels except the last Oct 10 04:19:45 ok I can't stay awake Oct 10 04:19:55 * phil_bw wanders off Oct 10 04:28:21 sugardave: awesome Oct 10 04:35:01 rwhitby: if you're going to be around for a little while, I might like to send you one to look at Oct 10 04:35:09 sure Oct 10 04:35:25 alright, I'm hooking in the cookie to save of the cities Oct 10 04:51:10 what time is it in Chatham Islands now? Oct 10 05:03:39 haeffb: about 6:46 PM Oct 10 Oct 10 05:03:58 3:15 later than here :) Oct 10 05:04:21 that's about the furthest into the future you can go on the planet Oct 10 05:04:30 there's one more Oct 10 05:04:36 a 14+ Oct 10 05:04:48 yeah, but that a boring 1h timezone Oct 10 05:04:53 heh Oct 10 05:09:48 Kiritimati does have about 5 times the population of Chatham though Oct 10 05:17:47 rwhitby: I never thought about it before, is that why they call it Christmas Island? Oct 10 05:18:12 it gets Christmas before everybody else Oct 10 05:18:14 lucky Oct 10 05:18:21 It'd be great of the pickers were only shown when you're in "warp" mode, and usually they just show the current time with a "today" or "+1 day" or "-1 day" which all fits on a single line under the timezone day, so you can fit more zones on the screen in view mode Oct 10 05:19:29 sugardave: it's called Christmas Island because it was discovered by Captain Cook (same guy who claimed Australia for England) on Christmas Eve 1777 Oct 10 05:20:04 rwhitby: I was thinking of doing something like that, hide the pickers and show something like you said and when you tap on that, it will show the pickers Oct 10 05:20:11 didn't he also end up dying on Hawaii? Oct 10 05:20:16 yep Oct 10 05:20:22 (to both of you) Oct 10 05:21:46 sugardave: and Adelaide just has to be one of the default zones :) Oct 10 05:22:07 haha, okay Oct 10 05:22:51 (if only so you guys know when I'm awake so you can bug me :) Oct 10 05:23:46 that is important :D Oct 10 05:24:54 hey, rwhitby~ know who's working on this Pixi overclock stuff? Oct 10 05:25:07 yep, jhojho is Oct 10 05:25:43 jhojho: ping? Oct 10 05:25:45 thanks Oct 10 05:25:59 I'll be able to start testing it tomorrow - both my pixi's are at work Oct 10 05:26:23 (one of them has no touchscreen, so is perfect for destructive kernel testing) Oct 10 05:26:24 I was playing with the uImage posted to twitter earlier, and the overclocking part seems to work Oct 10 05:26:39 but the issue I ran into was that PDK apps would no longer launch Oct 10 05:27:17 you should expect that on an experimental kernel Oct 10 05:27:23 yeah Oct 10 05:27:46 we don't worry about any compatibility issues when testing new overclocking code Oct 10 05:27:47 just had no idea who to mention it to, but now I know Oct 10 05:29:21 wonder why Palm didn't do an app catalog update today Oct 10 05:29:56 my Preware Homebrew Doco app had a pretty bad typo in it, and I'm waiting for the correction to go through before publicising the hell out of it Oct 10 06:25:45 that kernel is only for 1.4.3 Oct 10 06:25:54 which means PDK does not work yet Oct 10 06:26:26 I dont have a 1.4.5 pixi so as far as i'm concerned, it's not an interesting issue. yet Oct 10 06:27:12 ah, that would explain it Oct 10 06:38:41 does the plastic capacitive overlay on the Pre's screen have anything to do with the sort of stuttering you get when touching it? Oct 10 07:17:50 Oh, how I love impulse spending... Oct 10 07:46:13 rwhitby: how about "today, tomorrow, yesterday" and then that display will always be relative to "working time" Oct 10 08:01:19 rwhitby: actually, I hate that...will be today/tomorrow/yesterday and then short dates if you change it far enough Oct 10 10:35:09 Hi Oct 10 13:33:55 morning all Oct 10 13:37:02 morning JenP Oct 10 13:37:15 hi haeffb! Oct 10 13:39:22 you're up early today Oct 10 13:39:55 yeah..i have a lot of work to do tonight so wanted to get some app testing in this AM before it gets crazy Oct 10 13:53:12 Morning Oct 10 13:57:36 morning Oct 10 14:00:47 morning Oct 10 14:07:09 still looking for German translation for "Show Notifications" Oct 10 14:13:50 Benachrichtigung anzeigen Oct 10 14:13:59 Benachrichtigung anzeigen Oct 10 14:15:42 that is weird, I cannot drop an SQL database with WebOS, the error message is "table already exists"... makes no sense. Oct 10 14:16:00 I know it exists, that's why I wanna drop it Oct 10 14:16:44 sounds like your trying to create it Oct 10 14:25:22 CTLAdvance: danke Oct 10 14:32:48 "Show tags" ? Oct 10 14:44:05 "Tags anzeigen" Oct 10 14:44:38 depending on how you translate tags in the remaining app... Oct 10 14:46:25 scope problem apparently;) Oct 10 14:51:47 i've got a weird problem with my pre... (german o2) - it only connects to mobile data when its using 3G. Not in GPRS and Edge modes. Oct 10 14:59:07 DThought_ Oct 10 14:59:12 have you enabled it? Oct 10 15:00:02 phone -> preferences -> network -> dataroaming Oct 10 15:01:14 yes Oct 10 15:01:30 data roaming + data use is active Oct 10 15:01:43 when i select "automatic" and 3g is available, pppd fires up Oct 10 15:02:07 when i select "only 2g" it seems as if pppd is never launched Oct 10 15:02:50 O2 MMS Oct 10 15:02:50 O2 E-Mail Oct 10 15:02:50 O2 GSM Oct 10 15:02:55 oops Oct 10 15:03:28 2010-10-10T14:56:38.499145Z [124109] palm-webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS}: com.palm.systemui: Error: SystemUI - Updating WAN Icon - Status - Removed {"state": "enable", "roamGuard": "disable", "networktype": "edge", "dataaccess": "usable", "networkstatus": "notattached", "disablewan": "off"} Oct 10 15:03:34 this is 5 minutes old Oct 10 15:03:59 notattached, but usable Oct 10 15:07:00 hmm Oct 10 15:07:07 talked to o2 about it? Oct 10 15:08:02 not yet Oct 10 15:11:35 but i doubt they come up with anything apart from sending the phone in Oct 10 15:12:41 its weird that UMTS is working... Oct 10 15:20:03 i dont think the hardware is the fault Oct 10 15:20:34 G'day! Oct 10 15:57:14 my dog stinks, time to wash him Oct 10 16:42:42 hotdp: i doubt a hardware fault, too... Oct 10 17:49:59 do any of you get about one sale a day on a 99 cent app? Oct 10 17:50:26 Im thinking about releasing my apps as 99 cent paid apps rather than free and ad supported Oct 10 17:51:22 Is there a webos return policy? The android 24 hour window makes it almost impossible to sell an app unless it is a game or a program. Oct 10 17:55:45 No there is no return policy I am aware of Oct 10 17:55:52 That would make app sales here a joke Oct 10 17:56:32 The return policy on android makes it a joke for devs. That is why big game houses are making their own game stores for android Oct 10 17:56:36 so you cant return it Oct 10 17:57:00 I agree Oct 10 17:57:38 I think free, ad supported .is the way to go on android Oct 10 17:57:57 I would say its the only way to go, I am 99% sure that is what Google wanted. Oct 10 17:58:02 I think i will make ad free apps, theres little ppint when admob pays pennies for cliCks Oct 10 17:58:19 Id rather sell a couple downloads a day Oct 10 17:58:20 Why would google want to handle payments which would cost them money when they can make money by someone using ad mob for ads Oct 10 17:58:31 Exactly Oct 10 17:58:42 Do you have any apps that cost money on the app store? Oct 10 17:58:45 Well, admob pays alright, 10 - 25 cents per click Oct 10 17:58:48 but on webOS Oct 10 17:58:51 its a joke as well Oct 10 17:58:55 Either way... Admob takes a 40% cut in ads or something silly Oct 10 17:59:06 usually about a 10% fill rate means only 10% of ad requests get filled Oct 10 17:59:22 Well, ive made some money from ad mob Oct 10 17:59:30 I think that is the standars for most ad networks... We need an iAd type thing for webos... Theres not point to NoT use iAds on iOS Oct 10 17:59:31 but then google bought them Oct 10 17:59:34 its really a joke Oct 10 17:59:48 google made admob worse for phones other than android Oct 10 17:59:52 My eCPm on admob is about $1.10 Oct 10 17:59:57 Wht is yours? Oct 10 18:00:01 lol Oct 10 18:00:03 not sure Oct 10 18:00:15 last year when I launched them I mad over 900 cash on admob Oct 10 18:00:18 Until google stopped allowing adsense for mobile, i had $25 eCPM Oct 10 18:00:28 I was making $400 a day Oct 10 18:00:32 then google bought them, now I make less than 20 / month Oct 10 18:00:48 Nice... Do you use webos for admob? Oct 10 18:01:16 The problem with mobclix and smaato getting full payment, since they are a middle man Oct 10 18:01:23 yeah, google really is a joke of a company with a wall of fake wall of enhancements which make them look like they are helping the world Oct 10 18:01:25 I love it Oct 10 18:01:48 Quatro was the best company for ads, right up until apple made them apple only Oct 10 18:01:52 which was another joke Oct 10 18:01:56 there really isnt any competiton to admob, because other networks may have a $5 eCPm, but with a 10% fill rate Oct 10 18:02:08 Harder than ever to make money,you know? Oct 10 18:02:16 This whole consolidation makes it worse Oct 10 18:02:21 Quatro was 97% to 100% all the time for me Oct 10 18:02:22 Do you have any paid apps for webos? Oct 10 18:02:50 And then apple bought them, and I cant use them in anything but apple apps now Oct 10 18:02:54 So youwere makin about $900 a month? Oct 10 18:03:06 yes, until google bought ad mob Oct 10 18:03:23 Yeah, I make about $900 a month with admob for android right now Oct 10 18:03:38 50,000 impressions daily Oct 10 18:03:41 I guess I should start making apps for that platform Oct 10 18:03:54 Do you think it is better to make $$$ for apps or free aps? Oct 10 18:04:05 (for webos) Oct 10 18:04:05 Does Android have an HTML5 app SDK yet? Oct 10 18:04:13 Blackberry is launching theirs soon Oct 10 18:04:15 Nope Oct 10 18:04:20 Really? Oct 10 18:04:35 I have mac os x, so i cant make them Oct 10 18:04:43 Unless their is a mac sdk Oct 10 18:04:53 Do you think it is worth the time to make webos apps? Oct 10 18:05:13 I signed up, but im debating... Free admob supported or paid for 99 cents Oct 10 18:05:39 The gold rush ended for iOS and Android already.. Oct 10 18:06:01 Most apps can clear $100k if they are good, at most... Games make good money, but it takes a Team Oct 10 18:06:11 Glu Mobile has yet to make money, and they are public.. Oct 10 18:06:20 Anywy Oct 10 18:06:23 i doubt you'll be able to sell $100k if you sell for 99 cents.. Oct 10 18:06:27 I would appreciate your opinion Oct 10 18:06:39 I am not looking for $100k Oct 10 18:06:48 But maybe $400 a month selling apps for webos Oct 10 18:06:53 Just to pay my helsth i sUrance Oct 10 18:07:25 see Oct 10 18:07:41 the key here it to update your app frequently, or make it something totally awesome Oct 10 18:07:48 A webOS game for instance Oct 10 18:07:54 dammit, this clock ap works wonderfully in the emu, and fails 80% on a phone Oct 10 18:08:15 Thats because Palms emulator is garbage Oct 10 18:08:22 I havent used that in a year or more Oct 10 18:08:48 Everything runs differently on the emulator for some reason Oct 10 18:08:54 I hope the same thing won't happen to my app, I don't have a device :\ Oct 10 18:09:08 You should really have a device Oct 10 18:09:11 it's because I'm doing Bad Things(tm) Oct 10 18:09:15 and make sure you use the default palm kernel Oct 10 18:09:31 I wonder if it works better on the Plus line of devices Oct 10 18:09:44 if you test the device with any patches you can screw everyone else who doesnt use patches Oct 10 18:09:48 I wouldn't know, since I'm on Sprint and no response from dev relations yet Oct 10 18:10:30 t8 Oct 10 18:10:45 Its worth a shot if it is something that is addictingf Oct 10 18:11:27 or useful Oct 10 18:11:44 If you want to charge, I suggest a free limited demo of what ever it is Oct 10 18:11:51 a tons of good utilities on other platform do not exist on webos, there is still a lot of room for growth Oct 10 18:12:12 Yes, but we have limited access to things Oct 10 18:12:15 Spanska: nah, you should listen to all the doomsayers...webOS is dead Oct 10 18:12:18 I'm just a necrophiliac Oct 10 18:12:19 like file editing Oct 10 18:12:24 you cant do it on webOS Oct 10 18:12:45 officially Oct 10 18:12:46 I'm not thinking about this Oct 10 18:12:57 like, database apps, I really haven't seen any on webos Oct 10 18:13:11 Spanska: like what, a lot of my apps use the db Oct 10 18:13:14 You mean something that could link up to oracle Oct 10 18:13:15 > Oct 10 18:13:22 ? Oct 10 18:13:57 Not necessarily, take JFile as an example. I couldn't find something similar in the "all apps" feed Oct 10 18:15:11 PIM applications aren't that great either, in my opinion it was a lot better on Palm OS. I suppose Palm might make them better but people could take avantage of this too and create better PIM apps! Oct 10 18:15:55 let me get this straight...you want an app that lets you make databases Oct 10 18:15:56 ? Oct 10 18:16:32 of course, you only get 1 db per app.... Oct 10 18:16:43 so what you really want is a table manager Oct 10 18:17:24 sugardave: probably yeah, something to manage tables in an SQLite database Oct 10 18:17:39 tricky, but do-able Oct 10 18:17:51 but, how many people besides you are going to buy it? Oct 10 18:18:23 chicken and egg :) Oct 10 18:18:41 people won't come unless there are apps, apps won't get made unless there are people there to buy them Oct 10 18:19:08 sure Oct 10 18:19:40 no idea.. I've been watching Palm since they had issues with PalmOS licensing. I would like to switch but there are too many things I couldn't do with a Pre that I can do with my existing PalmOS device. I guess I would just create new apps to suit my needs and share so people also having such needs could use them Oct 10 18:20:28 I know it takes time to create apps, especially good apps, but I think it's something possible Oct 10 18:21:03 sure, it's possible Oct 10 18:21:22 my database helpers would lend themselves perfectly to that table manager app Oct 10 18:21:51 but right now I'm making a free app to add holidays to the existing calendar Oct 10 18:23:40 I suppose some other people might like it, we'll see ;) Oct 10 18:23:53 The thing about growth... I saw a lot of low hanging fruit on Android and I have about 50 apps with 10,000+ downloads, all from public domain information Oct 10 18:24:08 The thing about the messenger clients, is that Palm should have more options built into the system, like yahoo, and live messenger Oct 10 18:24:30 There are no reason to have apps for this Oct 10 18:24:31 But they dont make a lot of money, since they are all free apps that most (if not all) would return if I charged 99 cents for Oct 10 18:24:45 Yes there is... The browser is Android blows Oct 10 18:25:00 no Oct 10 18:25:05 I mean for messenger clients Oct 10 18:25:09 When a mobile version of certainnthings comes, then it wikk be uesless... For now, native apps trump Mobile web Oct 10 18:25:38 Eventuslly the Mobile web will be like the web, and most app stores will be useless except for a dozen or slow important apps Oct 10 18:25:54 Much desktop todsy... Photoshop, bloomberg, ms office, etc.. Oct 10 18:26:24 For now, it is more of an applet environment snd thr novelty. Oct 10 18:27:04 Most iOS apps quickly surge to the top, make their $100k and then fade forever.. Unlessit is useless, there's still hundreds of thousands in it.. Not millions for a single developer Oct 10 18:27:27 Now, does anyone sell a webos app in here? Oct 10 18:27:37 apps will actually take over the web, and just download the content Oct 10 18:27:58 You think so? Oct 10 18:28:00 its better to do that anyway because we can decrease the amount of web traffic for everything that is sent anyway Oct 10 18:28:07 I view them as a temporary thing Oct 10 18:28:16 Ctla.. Do you sell any webos apps? Oct 10 18:28:29 Yes, the web itself is becoming less relevant, the internet will become more efficient at serving data via apps Oct 10 18:28:38 Yes, I have several Oct 10 18:28:53 Do they sell a few a day? Oct 10 18:28:55 also alot of sites will start to sell memberships to increase revenue Oct 10 18:28:56 t8: yes, we sell apps here, I don't know how many have has made the $100K you make on iPhone and Android stores Oct 10 18:29:49 I agree Oct 10 18:29:58 But... Are you grting a few sales a day? Oct 10 18:30:22 if I re-push my app to 'what's new' every day, sure Oct 10 18:30:28 but I don't Oct 10 18:30:55 But still, at least a few sales a day? Oct 10 18:31:08 If i could clear $5 a day for an app, it'd defeat the purppse of ads Oct 10 18:31:11 not every day, no, things plateau over time Oct 10 18:31:19 I also sell apps. But for me it is VERY slow at the moment Oct 10 18:31:23 Idnargue a paying app would make more than ad supported Oct 10 18:31:29 Really? Oct 10 18:31:29 yes it does Oct 10 18:31:35 I think webos will pick up Oct 10 18:31:39 unless you have an app that people like, is running a long time, etc. Oct 10 18:31:47 But it wont be until next yr Oct 10 18:31:55 t8: the "pick-up" time is over, my friend, you're a year late Oct 10 18:32:00 When HP releases tablets and more phones Oct 10 18:32:18 Why do people say the app rush is over? Oct 10 18:32:18 last year wasl gold-rush time Oct 10 18:32:25 because it is? Oct 10 18:32:46 iOS is already picked over Oct 10 18:32:51 android almost is... Oct 10 18:32:56 webos is clean, and fresh still Oct 10 18:32:58 I'm talking about webOS Oct 10 18:33:06 I could care less about androidi/ios Oct 10 18:33:11 Right, but hpmis releasing new devices next yr Oct 10 18:33:15 er couldn't care less Oct 10 18:33:30 HP will release new products with webos next yr Oct 10 18:33:34 That is the gamble Oct 10 18:35:05 arg, this makes ZERO sense....all my calls are chained to the previous one's success handler, so I KNOW I'm not overloading things Oct 10 18:38:24 :( Oct 10 18:39:01 Sometimes on the phone it processes nothing, one thing, two things, or all of them Oct 10 18:39:04 very disturbing Oct 10 19:32:29 :LIST STARCRAFT Oct 10 20:25:41 so yeah...Mojo Service Requests will just disappear completely and not run the failure handler and otherwise give no indication that something has gone wrong Oct 10 20:25:43 that blows Oct 10 20:33:25 sugardave: did you see that post by palm on that? Oct 10 20:34:45 http://www.incaseofstairs.com/2010/04/garbage-collection-gotchas-in-webos/ Oct 10 20:42:14 Tibfib: no, let me take a look Oct 10 20:44:51 Tibfib: that sounds pretty close...what does "By instantiating this on a location that will not be collected during the application’s lifetime" actually mean, though? Oct 10 20:45:23 no clue Oct 10 20:45:43 awesome Oct 10 20:46:18 * sugardave is going to try a different approach. Oct 10 20:52:50 word, it might have been GC...I changed from new Mojo.Service.... to this.controller.serviceRequest Oct 10 20:52:59 we'll see how it holds up Oct 10 20:53:03 Tibfib: thanks :D Oct 10 20:53:26 sugardave: hah no problem Oct 10 20:57:52 sugardave: look in preware or save/restore or govnah source to see how we use a this.subscription variable to force the lifetime of a long-running service request (e.g. when Preware loads feeds) Oct 10 21:01:18 rwhitby: I may get by with this, but that will be the next option for sure Oct 10 21:01:30 rwhitby: have you put that on a phone yet, it will likely fail Oct 10 21:01:33 or it might work Oct 10 21:01:38 it just depends :D Oct 10 21:04:45 I believe I can say this is fixed, woohoo! Oct 10 21:04:53 slow as hell, but it works on the phone :D Oct 10 21:55:51 Just submitted my first couple webos apps Oct 10 21:56:10 Im betting I can make more seliing them than with using ads Oct 10 22:48:29 yes, so no bet Oct 10 23:01:42 rwhitby: I sent you a new test version, let me know what you think Oct 10 23:01:49 ok Oct 10 23:10:39 okay, this is ridiculous...I have a 0-star review: "Will not connect, waste of money. No reply from developer." But the motherfucker never sent an email Oct 10 23:10:53 ~users are idiots~ Oct 10 23:12:12 * oil wonders where his test version of rodtime is? Oct 10 23:12:22 "tried contacting developer via telepathic email and never got a response, 0 stars!!!!" Oct 10 23:13:03 oil: you want to see it? Oct 10 23:13:10 it's slow and ugly, but it works :D Oct 10 23:14:04 brandonvb@gmail.com, email me an ipk Oct 10 23:15:52 oil: sent Oct 10 23:15:57 now I'm going to buy my app Oct 10 23:18:44 nice, icon Oct 10 23:20:14 why does starting it make my alarms go crazy? Oct 10 23:20:41 oh yeah, well, see... Oct 10 23:20:58 I have to change your timezone to make it work correctly Oct 10 23:21:05 it gets changed back Oct 10 23:21:06 lol Oct 10 23:21:10 :D Oct 10 23:21:23 sounds like quite the bug Oct 10 23:21:24 now I will have to see if there's a way to fix that, probably not :D Oct 10 23:21:27 eating time Oct 10 23:27:50 Anivrom! Oct 10 23:28:04 Ok so is there a way to delete a list item along with the flick animation via javascript / mojo? Oct 10 23:28:19 Yes Oct 10 23:28:23 lies Oct 10 23:28:29 It is easy! Oct 10 23:28:34 Using Mojo lists? Oct 10 23:28:49 Just call the flick event and pass it my own x y vals? Oct 10 23:28:59 lol Oct 10 23:29:11 :( Oct 10 23:29:14 Are you using mojo lists? Oct 10 23:29:20 yesjkljh kl;jl;k Oct 10 23:29:23 If so Oct 10 23:29:30 Then just set up an event listener Oct 10 23:29:31 Mojo.Event.listDelete Oct 10 23:29:35 be sure to blame kesne when it doesnt work Oct 10 23:29:37 got that.... Oct 10 23:29:50 Also, make sure you have swipeToDelete: true in the attributes Oct 10 23:29:54 duh... Oct 10 23:30:04 What are you asking? Oct 10 23:30:06 I dont think you are getting my question Oct 10 23:30:20 I didnt think I explained it very well Oct 10 23:30:21 maybe if you phrased it better Oct 10 23:30:27 lol Oct 10 23:30:35 I want to generate a flick event without the user flicking. Oct 10 23:30:37 :D Oct 10 23:30:58 delete event/flick event Oct 10 23:31:00 sugardave: nice work so far. we will need to work out how to calculate the times without changing the system time, especially so that I can keep the app open that the times update in real time each minute. Oct 10 23:31:27 Anivrom: Just splice the stuff out of the array and update the model? Oct 10 23:31:38 s/array/object Oct 10 23:31:38 I wanted teh smoothz animationz Oct 10 23:31:42 Or whatever it's called Oct 10 23:31:54 Can't be done Oct 10 23:31:58 It's impossible! Oct 10 23:32:20 Literally and theoretically impossible Oct 10 23:32:52 "its possible, you just need the right sedative" Oct 10 23:33:15 I prefer to say "its possible, you just need the right lubrication" Oct 10 23:33:22 * oil runs! Oct 10 23:33:23 Same idea though Oct 10 23:33:38 I blame oil. Oct 10 23:33:49 a valid direction Oct 10 23:34:29 btw the answer to the quote was "a stroong sedative" Oct 10 23:34:50 Inception 2010 © Oct 10 23:36:16 best movie in the history of movies Oct 10 23:38:11 O.M.G... 1080p youtube is superb fullscreen on my monitor Oct 10 23:40:21 How do I grab html source from a website? Oct 10 23:40:28 I thought java has cross-domain restrictions Oct 10 23:40:33 *javascript Oct 10 23:41:19 it does Oct 10 23:42:18 rwhitby: let me chew on that a while....not sure how to overcome it at the moment Oct 10 23:42:40 sugardave: I'll take a look at the code and the webOS APIs and see if I can come up with anything Oct 10 23:43:19 just dont change hte timezone xD Oct 10 23:43:26 rwhitby: the problem (I think) is that Palm's magic determineDST code is in the Java stuff and has no exposed API Oct 10 23:43:39 oil: but that's how we determine the REAL offset Oct 10 23:43:46 javascript's date offset is flawed Oct 10 23:44:06 ah I should be using XmlHttpRequest Oct 10 23:44:16 it will always report the same offset for a particular tz, even if daylight savings time is on Oct 10 23:44:16 sugardave: then I'll just reverse engineer the java and write a cleanroom implementation :) Oct 10 23:44:31 rwhitby: better you than me :D Oct 10 23:46:36 Anivrom: Nice to see you, too, by-the-way :P Oct 10 23:46:47 rawr Oct 10 23:46:55 Anivrom: How's the app coming? Oct 10 23:47:17 Other things are standing between me and total world domination (via my app) Oct 10 23:47:24 Ah I see Oct 10 23:47:37 Like the real world? Oct 10 23:47:43 Somewhat Oct 10 23:47:53 I'm building a helper app for a tabletop game I bought recently Oct 10 23:48:10 along with a few graphic design jobs Oct 10 23:48:13 which are blah Oct 10 23:51:08 ok, so com.palm.systemservice/getPreferenceValues '{"key":"timeZone"}' has all the zones and offsets, but only whether they support DST and not the DST change dates Oct 10 23:52:47 rwhitby: right, that's the problem Oct 10 23:53:01 you can only get the real offset if you're in the timezone and inspect a date object Oct 10 23:54:05 I wonder if I don't warp the time, if the alarm problem goes away Oct 10 23:54:11 since time is time Oct 10 23:54:28 and without changing it, should always be the same Oct 10 23:54:49 but then I can't be sure about properly handling dst for future/past dates Oct 10 23:54:56 only "today" Oct 10 23:55:13 ugh, i can't figure out how to grab html Oct 10 23:55:25 uho: look at Ajax.Request Oct 10 23:55:35 myHTML = Mojo.grabHTML Oct 10 23:55:41 at a minimum, you get the whole response Oct 10 23:55:55