**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 12 02:59:57 2010 Oct 12 03:00:14 SineOt: current testing is not worrying about version Oct 12 03:01:06 it's lots easier to get it to throttle to max when you can run PDK apps through :p Oct 12 03:01:52 but I'd be more than happy to test out Oct 12 03:02:12 if it kills my phone, well-it's due to get replaced anyways. Keyboard backlight is busted on the left side (again) Oct 12 03:05:43 haeffb: alright, so viewmenu looks pretty but takes up way more space than I'd like it to. Can you think of another way to swap between scenes intuitively without the app menu? Oct 12 03:06:05 we can listen to screen swipes, right? Oct 12 03:06:20 you can. sugardave might be able to help Oct 12 03:06:30 he worked with a horiz scroller for a while Oct 12 03:07:00 haeffb: cool I'll talk with him if I get the chance :). That might be less intuitive though Oct 12 03:07:37 ah well, I'll at least have it as an option hopefully Oct 12 03:08:09 brb Oct 12 03:37:27 anyone else want to review my app? :) Oct 12 03:50:05 Anyone want to help finish off Relego? Still one bug holding things up. Oct 12 04:23:25 Why would you build apps for webOS over Android or Rimm? Oct 12 04:24:29 webOS is on the phone I own Oct 12 04:24:39 so I want to play around with it Oct 12 04:31:19 Nice, that's proactive! Oct 12 04:32:21 So you're more exploring the SDK because of personal satisfaction? Oct 12 04:36:59 louberry: why wouldn't you build webOS apps? Oct 12 04:37:23 webOS was the easiest from installing the SDK to getting apps going for me, compared to Android and iOS Oct 12 04:37:33 I haven't tried BlackBerry OS though Oct 12 04:39:12 It boils down to having the strongest market. Oct 12 04:39:37 I want to see webOS on a new platform to get consumers excited again in the platform. Oct 12 04:40:11 javascript/html5/css3...that's a pretty big market Oct 12 04:41:21 Yeah, it's pretty sweet! Oct 12 04:42:09 I am downloading the plug-in right now for Eclipse...we'll see what happens. Any advice? Oct 12 04:43:23 louberry: do you know much javascript, etc? Oct 12 04:44:18 No, I'm in accounting. Oct 12 04:44:23 I am looking over the tutorials and trying to apply what I know. Oct 12 04:45:11 okay, so that is first up...learning javascript. I recommend as a newbie to NOT try to use the style matters/mojo matters app source code for figuring things out...it's pretty tricky Oct 12 04:45:38 I think there are some better app example on the dev site Oct 12 04:45:52 http://www.webos101.com/ is your friend Oct 12 04:45:58 learn it, love it Oct 12 04:46:05 yeah, there's some good tutorials on there Oct 12 04:46:10 way better than the palm stuff :T Oct 12 04:46:11 http://developer.palm.com is good, too Oct 12 04:46:17 it's the official forum Oct 12 04:46:21 we post bugs there, etc. Oct 12 04:46:54 we, the developers, I do not work for Palm :D Oct 12 04:48:02 Wow, nice I will have to bookmark them for sure! Oct 12 04:48:12 sugardave: but they'll hire you after they see your new RealTime app ... Oct 12 04:48:24 heh, sure :D Oct 12 04:48:39 Who will hire you? Oct 12 04:48:59 Oh, I see where that was going... Oct 12 04:50:07 Thanks for your help sugardave! I am off and running. Oct 12 04:50:38 np, good luck Oct 12 04:52:12 rwhitby: so, I have the "big time" correctly showing for each city...the bummer is that calling convertDate to update them results in a slight waterfall effect when they update Oct 12 04:52:51 calculate them all first, then display last Oct 12 04:52:52 I could cheat and just update them the first time and add my own seconds during the other time I use to update the current local time Oct 12 04:55:42 * oil wonders why "rod time" isn't in a repo he can look at :) Oct 12 04:55:52 * oil is going to keep calling it that till it sticks, haha Oct 12 04:56:12 rwhitby: oh, I remember my more important concern...so, you want to be able to change the time displayed from any city and have it update the other cities...but you also want it to be the current time and update correctly....how do you want to solve that? :D Oct 12 04:56:19 I may put it in a repo soon, I"m not sure Oct 12 04:56:42 * oil may contribute, who knows :) Oct 12 04:57:16 sugardave: when you type in a time, you're now in "warp mode" and there is a small indicator somewhere which shows that Oct 12 04:57:24 you backswipe to get back to current time Oct 12 04:58:35 okay, that will work Oct 12 05:01:55 oil: I will think about it, I never have considered it before Oct 12 06:07:53 so Oct 12 06:07:58 any thoughts on pre2? Oct 12 06:08:19 totally sw8 especially if it ends up on Sprint Oct 12 06:08:23 keep in mind that if you say anything too unreasonable, I'll be here to criticize Oct 12 06:08:27 :D Oct 12 06:44:37 hey webOS members Oct 12 06:44:46 we need some help Oct 12 06:44:52 writing articles and tuts! Oct 12 06:44:57 over at webOS101.com Oct 12 06:45:01 come on! Oct 12 06:47:01 Good morning Oct 12 06:47:17 good morning Oct 12 07:00:04 Good Morning Yall webOSers Oct 12 07:00:27 :) Oct 12 07:00:59 I just thought of what a funny idea "breakfast in bed" is, and how terrible it would be to wake up and find breakfast all under your sheets and all over your bed Oct 12 07:01:13 "Oh god the scrambled eggs are EVERYWHERE!" Oct 12 07:01:57 someone warn the omlet..! Oct 12 07:09:47 There's an app for that! Oct 12 07:11:51 indeed ;) Oct 12 07:14:14 Is Ares 1.0 worth exploring? Oct 12 07:24:57 louberry, do you use eclipse? Oct 12 07:31:20 yah Oct 12 07:48:07 hotdp: pdk or sdk? Oct 12 07:50:34 anyone get their free device yet? Oct 12 07:53:17 No how? Oct 12 11:09:36 anyone want to beta test my app? :) Oct 12 13:43:35 morning, all Oct 12 14:02:00 Hey sugardave Oct 12 14:02:06 morning HattCzech_work Oct 12 14:52:30 morning Oct 12 14:54:32 so, I have a potentially dumb question. How easy would it be to do kerberos authentication via javascript? Oct 12 14:55:35 summatusmentis: I have no idea about how kerberos works, but there MIGHT be a javascript library for it somewhere Oct 12 14:55:40 if so, you coul duse that Oct 12 15:05:12 sugardave: I googled briefly, I'd be surprised if there was a javascript library Oct 12 15:07:23 sugardave: I've been wondering about needing a PDK service that does all of the low-end stuff Oct 12 15:09:04 I was thinking about a "cloud storage" app that provides access to AFS, dropbox, NFS, WebDAV, etc. Oct 12 15:09:23 AFS is dependent on kerberos Oct 12 15:09:30 which is, you know, why I ask Oct 12 15:12:34 ah, yeah, looks like nothing in the way of js libraries Oct 12 15:12:44 so, that means a service, yes Oct 12 15:12:49 well beyond my ability :D Oct 12 15:13:22 probably beyond my ability, but I know C, so that's a plus Oct 12 15:13:38 how does a service interact with the "client" javascript/html? Oct 12 15:14:01 I have no clue...the #webos-internals crowd is your best bet on that Oct 12 15:14:32 alright, I wondered about that Oct 12 15:15:25 actually, they do java services, I think....maybe the PDK docs would be a good place to start Oct 12 15:15:37 Hello all (: I got a small problem with my pré. Oct 12 15:15:43 bummer Oct 12 15:15:51 Maybe somebody could help me with my problem. Oct 12 15:16:09 what is it? Oct 12 15:16:19 don't leave us hanging like that Oct 12 15:16:25 Sorry :üp Oct 12 15:16:28 :P Oct 12 15:16:33 So: Oct 12 15:16:41 You know for sure the view in the prestore "My applications" Oct 12 15:16:55 so I got there 1 application, no name, no icon w/o anything and I can't delete it. Oct 12 15:17:06 That wouldn't be a real problem, buuut.... bc of that nothing else start downloading. Oct 12 15:17:08 ooh, phantom application, nice Oct 12 15:17:21 And I can't find it in the menu to delete it -_- Oct 12 15:17:43 sugardave: java or C, either way would work Oct 12 15:18:02 I suppose you could put the phone in dev mode, log in to it, go to the app directories where things are installed, and then see if there's an odd directory in there that might be the one Oct 12 15:18:31 Schalla: but, I haven't heard of this problem before, so you are pioneering new territory Oct 12 15:18:51 Hurray - I found something I really don't wanna did - Or when just in a Emu. :D Oct 12 15:19:41 is that on an emulator? Oct 12 15:20:40 ...That would be a dream. Oct 12 15:20:41 No. Oct 12 15:20:43 http://forums.precentral.net/general-webos-chat/223740-phantom-app-download-catalog.html Oct 12 15:20:51 No pioneering >; Oct 12 15:20:56 dammit, my dynamic child widgets will not take new models properly :( Oct 12 15:21:45 There is a solution over SSH (: Oct 12 15:22:39 yeah, that is good Oct 12 15:23:02 I never connected over SSH to my pré but well - I got expierence with terminals^^ (Linux ftw :P) Oct 12 15:23:28 Schalla: do you have the Palm SDK already? Oct 12 15:23:38 Nope. Oct 12 15:23:44 if so, you can skip the part about installing dropbear/openssh on the phone Oct 12 15:23:46 ah Oct 12 15:23:51 nevermind then :D Oct 12 15:24:01 you already have preware, though, I bet Oct 12 15:24:25 ....I had, till my touchscreen was defect so I decided to don't "jailbreak" it this time :P Oct 12 15:24:27 so you should be able to install the webos internals package that gives you ssh access, etc. Oct 12 15:24:42 hmm, well, you will need to do it again :D Oct 12 15:24:48 argh, damn, thought I could easily connect over wlan to it :D Oct 12 15:25:08 nope, gotta be in dev mode and have ssh installed OR install the SDK and use novaterm Oct 12 15:25:24 (still need dev mode on the phone for that) Oct 12 15:25:27 Just fear another defect.^^ Oct 12 15:25:37 But whatever. Oct 12 15:25:44 2 years warantiy :D Oct 12 15:25:44 nah, dev mode won't break you Oct 12 15:25:53 I've been running my phone in it for 1 year + Oct 12 15:26:47 LOL Oct 12 15:26:48 could someone help me with transferring files using novaterm on ubuntu? Oct 12 15:26:51 I already got it enabled :D Oct 12 15:27:01 Had forgotten that fact :D Oct 12 15:27:08 Schalla: lol Oct 12 15:27:38 Dave, you must know, I had my pré 2 days Oct 12 15:27:42 and the touchscreen was defect Oct 12 15:27:43 I was so angry. Oct 12 15:27:44 :D Oct 12 15:27:51 xbonesx: just copy what you want to a temp directory on /media/internal, plug in as usb device and copy from there Oct 12 15:28:09 Schalla: yeah, that sucks Oct 12 15:28:25 lot of work is there no way to use "mv" or "cp" to get files from the device when novatermed? Oct 12 15:28:48 xbonesx: no, that's a remote device, if you installed openssh or dropbear, then you could use scp Oct 12 15:29:31 xbonesx: it's not a lot of work to 'cp -r [dir] /media/internal/[dir]', then tap the usb icon to switch modes, copy files, switch back Oct 12 15:29:34 it's not that bad Oct 12 15:29:35 2 minutes Oct 12 15:30:12 sugardave: setWidgetModel ? Oct 12 15:30:28 haeffb_pre: I'm trying that now, and it still won't update the damn time pickers properly Oct 12 15:30:45 btw Sugardave, which Apps you use? OpenSSH, Preware... What else? Lookin' for a few usefull ones :) Short sec afk Oct 12 15:31:48 Schalla: that's about it, really...I don't do patches/themes/etc on this phone (well a couple, one for gps radio control and one for showing download counts in the app catalog) Oct 12 15:33:13 sugardave: so really whats the point of novaterm? Oct 12 15:33:36 quick access to the filesystem for viewing/editing files, I guess? Oct 12 15:33:42 its a backend for programs such as quickisntall right? Oct 12 15:33:45 install* Oct 12 15:34:09 it allows for the connection to be made in ubuntu or other linux distros? Oct 12 15:34:16 Hm. Okay, if you say so (: Thanks. Oct 12 15:34:18 make sense to me... Oct 12 15:35:25 So, lets destroy my phone again :D Joke Oct 12 15:35:47 * xbonesx nooooo Oct 12 15:35:51 * xbonesx :) Oct 12 15:35:55 :D Oct 12 15:36:06 dont hurt the pres Oct 12 15:36:08 lol Oct 12 15:36:20 xbonesx: did you try using scp from the local machine, then? can't remember the port on the phone that novaterm listens to, but: scp -P [that port] -r root@[phone_ip_on_wlan]:/dir/you/want/to/copy /place/on/local/machine Oct 12 15:36:22 i cant wait for a "new" device Oct 12 15:37:00 btw sugardave Oct 12 15:37:07 i could do that but i totally forgot i have quickinstall on ubuntu, i can just use that to push and pull files Oct 12 15:37:13 Couldn't i also use the linux commandline in QuickInstall? ;> Oct 12 15:37:29 unknown, haven't messed with wosqi in a LONG time Oct 12 15:37:33 Schalla: what i was just referring too lol Oct 12 15:38:15 @xbonesx: That wasn't to your topic (: Oct 12 15:38:29 i know but i was referring to the same thing Oct 12 15:38:42 either way... :) Oct 12 15:38:44 Schalla: yeah, probably so, since I think wosqi includes novaterm Oct 12 15:38:51 yep :) Oct 12 15:38:55 so if you can get a shell, you're good Oct 12 15:38:58 it uses it as a backend Oct 12 15:39:55 roughly how long should it take for the dev team to get back to you about webos 2.0 acceptance? Oct 12 15:40:59 o_O Now I have installed preware - but.... My Sim is locked, lol. Oct 12 15:41:31 reboot? Oct 12 15:42:29 I try a reboot (: Oct 12 15:44:44 haeffb_pre: it might be because I'm not letting the child widgets be handled automatically AND I'm not keeping references to the models, just re-generating them. I'm going to have to play with this some more Oct 12 15:45:21 (: Works. Oct 12 15:45:36 Got again connection to my net Oct 12 15:45:39 and preware works. Oct 12 15:45:44 woo Oct 12 15:45:52 So everything is fine. :D Oct 12 15:46:13 So thanks dave, see you later all :) Got to go. Oct 12 15:46:19 (Driver lession^^) Oct 12 15:48:29 sugardave: pm Oct 12 15:55:53 afternoon Oct 12 15:57:29 hi swisstomcat Oct 12 15:57:39 hey sugardave Oct 12 15:57:44 question Oct 12 15:57:59 how much does contracting work pay these days in the US? Oct 12 15:58:17 (per hour .. mobile dev using html/css/js/phonegap) Oct 12 15:58:30 hmmm, it depends. I haven't done it in 5+ years, but I was making pretty good money (as a Tivoli architect, though) Oct 12 15:59:02 swisstomcat: I'm not really a programmer, so I'm a bad reference for how much you should be seeing Oct 12 15:59:18 i'm just trying to get an idea Oct 12 15:59:28 have you looked at Monster, et al? Oct 12 15:59:31 i'm looking at a job in new york Oct 12 15:59:47 new york is expensive, make sure you get a lot of money Oct 12 15:59:53 you're moving there, or? Oct 12 15:59:58 i might Oct 12 16:00:26 swisstomcat, is palm in ny ? ;) Oct 12 16:00:41 not at palm, hotdp Oct 12 16:00:53 but x-platform stuff for ios,android,webos Oct 12 16:01:11 well, I know that NY Times was offering a job (as a webOS dev, I believe) and the range was around $80-$100K, I think Oct 12 16:01:26 pr. month-? Oct 12 16:01:32 uh, no Oct 12 16:01:35 annually :P Oct 12 16:01:56 oh Oct 12 16:02:03 i'm looking at the hourly rate Oct 12 16:02:11 yeah, I suck at those Oct 12 16:02:25 100 is kind of good? Oct 12 16:02:43 $100000 = $40 Oct 12 16:02:55 per hour Oct 12 16:03:01 hmm Oct 12 16:03:03 seems low Oct 12 16:03:05 yeah, about that...I'd go for $50+ Oct 12 16:03:08 $48/hr Oct 12 16:03:15 how many hours do you work in us? Oct 12 16:03:29 hotdp: me? as few as possible Oct 12 16:03:35 40 is 'normal' Oct 12 16:03:44 Oki Oct 12 16:03:50 sugardave: d'you do consulting? Oct 12 16:03:50 8-17 ? Oct 12 16:04:06 there are 2080 hours in a normal year of "full-time" work Oct 12 16:04:25 yeah, 104k per year then Oct 12 16:04:35 median household income in US is about $50000 Oct 12 16:04:42 oh, wow Oct 12 16:04:52 summatusmentis: no, I have a real salaried job I do Oct 12 16:04:55 swisstomcat how many hours did you use to work? Oct 12 16:04:58 sugardave: I see Oct 12 16:04:59 well, europe is more expensive Oct 12 16:05:01 and this "development" on the side :D Oct 12 16:05:22 I hope to be a grad student forever, and do "develpoment" on the side :) Oct 12 16:05:34 per wikipedia in 2006 Oct 12 16:05:59 my pre is supposed to come today Oct 12 16:07:04 top 15% in US make > $100k Oct 12 16:07:51 so, yes, that would be a pretty good salary in most of US Oct 12 16:08:09 New York, California...need more money Oct 12 16:08:18 TX, not so much Oct 12 16:08:40 you never get rich working for the Man... Oct 12 16:09:20 not unless you become the man Oct 12 16:11:08 bbl Oct 12 16:13:49 salaries on the west coast are higher? (e.g SF) Oct 12 16:14:53 presumably within the SF bay area, yes Oct 12 16:14:59 but I don't know the stats on it Oct 12 16:15:06 but probably living costs as well Oct 12 16:15:20 you better believe it Oct 12 16:15:22 astronomical Oct 12 16:15:27 really Oct 12 16:16:41 the hotbed of litigation that is california has made the cost of everything go through the roof (last time I checked, you could get 800-1000 sq. ft. of house for around $750,000) Oct 12 16:17:09 contrast with 1700 sq. ft. in Austin for less than $120K Oct 12 16:24:51 that's cheap Oct 12 16:24:54 compared to switzerland Oct 12 16:25:04 it's chuqui .. hide all the puppies! Oct 12 16:25:22 here a house starts at $600'000 Oct 12 16:25:35 sounds like California Oct 12 16:25:40 and goes up to over $1mio Oct 12 16:25:41 * halfhalo hides the puppies Oct 12 16:25:53 Austin might be larger than Switzerland :D Oct 12 16:26:04 hehe Oct 12 16:26:04 possibly... Oct 12 16:26:16 everything is larger than switzerland .. well, maybe except rhode island Oct 12 16:26:27 where do they dress more oddly, Texas or Switzerland? Oct 12 16:27:12 texas Oct 12 16:27:39 I know swisstomcat is neutral on the subject Oct 12 16:27:59 * swisstomcat just wears fur Oct 12 16:28:24 swiss people will probably say "texans" and texans "swiss" Oct 12 16:29:34 bbl Oct 12 16:29:40 haha Oct 12 16:29:47 I say all y'all Oct 12 16:30:03 it's better that "you's guys" Oct 12 16:30:06 yodel-ay-he-hoooo Oct 12 16:30:23 cowboy boots and lederhosen are equally odd Oct 12 16:30:51 texans have more guns Oct 12 16:30:55 on them Oct 12 16:30:58 at one time Oct 12 16:31:20 the swiss have more ways to evade taxes Oct 12 16:31:53 the swiss sweat less Oct 12 16:32:14 the swiss have no guns Oct 12 16:32:18 and they have better cheese Oct 12 16:32:26 halfhalo: you are mistaken, most of them have guns Oct 12 16:32:26 I will give them that Oct 12 16:32:26 oddly enough only the swiss have banned minarets Oct 12 16:32:37 nicve Oct 12 16:33:08 halfhalo: mandatory military service and a government-provided weapon Oct 12 16:33:14 but, swisstomcat gave his back :D Oct 12 16:33:29 yes, but see, texans get a gun with every happy meal Oct 12 16:33:35 amen Oct 12 16:33:54 knives in texas do not fold Oct 12 16:35:36 swisstomcat: Yo, yo Oct 12 16:35:54 duncan Oct 12 16:37:02 I showed swisstomcat that's we're not all savages here. I showed him good bread, good cheese and good chocolate. Oct 12 16:37:15 Although I realized afterwards that I hadn't taken him to the good chocolate place. Oct 12 16:37:33 I showed him why people fear me and cars Oct 12 16:37:34 did he show you a good bank and a good foreign policy? Oct 12 16:37:55 Roy-Pre101: it's probably a good thing you didn't take him to the chocolate place Oct 12 16:38:01 he would be sorely disappointed, I think Oct 12 16:38:06 Scharfenberger (sp?) isn't too bad but I meant to take him to recchiuti. Oct 12 16:38:17 mfisch: That would have been interesting! Oct 12 16:38:21 our regulations on chocolate basically mean "if it's brown, you can call it chocolate" Oct 12 16:38:34 sugardave: I didn't take him to Hershey's. :P Oct 12 16:38:38 haha Oct 12 16:39:11 Nestle is a swiss company and they make crappy chocolate too Oct 12 16:39:36 they also make dog food Oct 12 16:40:45 all I know is that when I get to go to Europe (even only in the UK), the chocolate there is WAY superior to our mass market stuff Oct 12 16:40:53 it's not even close Oct 12 16:41:32 I'm sure that's true Oct 12 16:41:58 That's true sugardave, however, I will point out that the US is experimenting with local, high-end chocolates now. Oct 12 16:42:03 and, holy crap, they use sugar there Oct 12 16:42:19 similar to claiming that US beer sucks Oct 12 16:42:27 meh, not a chocolate person Oct 12 16:42:32 while in fact the US has the most vibrant and diverse beer in the entire country Oct 12 16:42:42 Roy-Pre101: yeah, there are a couple of boutique chocolate places here that make good stuff Oct 12 16:42:43 derr, world Oct 12 16:47:51 Speaking of which, I had this the other day and it was really good: http://www.ommegang.com/index.php?mcat=1&scat=5&yr=1 Oct 12 17:02:47 \msg nickserv identify rohit Oct 12 17:03:32 doh Oct 12 17:06:47 lol Oct 12 17:07:09 dundunDUN Oct 12 17:07:16 * oilsworkn thinks his password is worse then "student1" Oct 12 17:08:09 this is why I do identify from the server connect screen :D Oct 12 17:08:27 this is why I have a bouncer Oct 12 17:08:41 I don't know what that is Oct 12 17:09:04 its basically a proxy for irc that keeps the connection to the irc server open foreva Oct 12 17:09:10 ah Oct 12 17:09:15 and you just log into the bouncer Oct 12 17:09:18 * sugardave uses screen. Oct 12 17:13:08 Sir, I have developed an app basically using emulator. The app is up for download and has few downloads as well. Now I haven't seen my app on the real phone and want to buy the phone so can test it out. so which one will be suitable?? pre or pixi?? Oct 12 17:15:34 Or maybe some other version Oct 12 17:15:37 yes Oct 12 17:20:49 imo pre > pixi Oct 12 17:20:54 Please someone suggest,, I mean it is nt that difficult a query,, a bit dumb though,, actualy in my country the phone is not available so will need to get it shipped from outside Oct 12 17:30:42 dynamic widgets don't get a .mojo property? Oct 12 17:30:50 that can't/shouldn't be right Oct 12 17:33:03 * oilsworkn does Oct 12 17:33:20 hmmm Oct 12 17:33:24 oh, you mean like, list sub-widgets? Oct 12 17:33:27 yeah Oct 12 17:33:30 but Oct 12 17:33:36 * oilsworkn has never tried to access their .mojo junk Oct 12 17:33:39 I'm not letting the list auto-instantiate them Oct 12 17:33:51 doesnt it anyways? Oct 12 17:33:57 nope Oct 12 17:34:04 'noChildWidgets': true Oct 12 17:34:22 so they have ids Oct 12 17:34:35 ah Oct 12 17:34:36 and I set them up after the list is rendered, then instantiateChildWidgets Oct 12 17:34:44 well then it should be like any other widget, no? Oct 12 17:34:46 that works okat Oct 12 17:34:58 yeah, it SHOULD Oct 12 17:35:05 lol Oct 12 17:35:13 but I'm finding that this.controller.get(widget).mojo is undefined Oct 12 17:35:40 it may be because of all the re-rendering of the list and the children get blown away, but I re-make them, so still unclear as why it isn't working Oct 12 17:35:47 sounds like you need a new way to do it xD Oct 12 17:35:51 it kind of works in another Mojo version, but not 1.4.5 Oct 12 17:35:52 yeah Oct 12 17:37:03 * oilsworkn would throw list widget out hte window Oct 12 17:37:40 well, my first go around was a static list, but I figured what the hell, people might want to add more cities Oct 12 17:37:52 Also will I be able to install and run application on my phone..?? since as palm is as such not available in my country Oct 12 17:38:11 rohit2: yes Oct 12 17:38:32 sugardave: non-widget dynamic list Oct 12 17:38:37 ala govnah setting scenes Oct 12 17:39:28 oilsworkn: okay, I will take a look...I really need those time/date pickers, though :D Oct 12 17:39:55 well, the rows and the widgets in them are done after the fact Oct 12 17:41:03 oilsworkn: that may be my issue, ordering all this stuff...I feel I'm pretty close Oct 12 17:42:25 oh Oct 12 17:42:34 well, reordering and what not will need a list widget Oct 12 17:42:40 unless you're going to do all the drag stuff yourself Oct 12 17:46:37 no, I mean ordering the setup an instantiation...the list gets re-rendered when .applyTZ is run, so the "big time" box shows the correct time for whatever city, so it blows away the initial children (which I then re-setup and instantiate, plus I tell them to use the date I save off for "big time"...they're just not doing it) Oct 12 17:48:55 ah Oct 12 17:50:45 I think I need to figure out a way to update "big time" without re-rendering the list, because there is another issue in that if the date/time pickers are expanded for a city and my loop runs to update the time, they disappear :D Oct 12 17:50:51 users won't like that Oct 12 17:51:06 and maybe this will help my problem, too Oct 12 17:53:01 well, if bit time had an id, you could just .update xD Oct 12 17:53:26 yeah, I will probably do just that Oct 12 17:53:49 * oilsworkn could be helping if it was in a repo :) Oct 12 17:54:29 really though, i just want to be able to hide a little snippit of code to randomly change the title change to "rod time" Oct 12 17:54:39 haha Oct 12 17:54:41 change the title change? thats one too many changes Oct 12 17:55:10 I want to have at least a "working" codebase before I put it in a repo Oct 12 17:55:47 the good news is that if I solve this, there will be no timezone/time switching on the phone :D Oct 12 17:57:21 oh, I hate logging into an ftp server with a browser and getting a big empty page Oct 12 17:58:17 lol Oct 12 18:03:08 Hey all (: Oct 12 18:03:48 who ftps with their browser? Oct 12 18:04:10 me, sometimes, especially if it's a password I don't know :D Oct 12 18:04:22 and I"m feeling particularly lazy Oct 12 18:05:04 well there is your problem Oct 12 18:05:17 use winscp Oct 12 18:31:01 they don't make winscp for ubuntu :P Oct 12 18:33:21 then use whatever they do make Oct 12 18:35:38 rehi Oct 12 18:37:50 hey Oct 12 18:38:06 monkey? Oct 12 18:38:29 hm? Oct 12 18:38:44 exactly Oct 12 18:39:21 you need to start makin' sense Oct 12 18:39:42 are there any rumors if webOS 2.0 will support the "old" palm pre? Oct 12 18:40:08 honor thy nda Oct 12 18:40:14 i don't see why it wouldn't run on the pre? Oct 12 18:41:18 i'm planning to buy a pre because they are very cheap now and i want to make sure that i will receive updates in the future Oct 12 18:41:36 they could block that for marketing reasons or performance issues Oct 12 18:43:52 nobody knows Oct 12 18:44:10 id imagine they more forward much like apple Oct 12 18:44:19 if the older devices can run it, put it on Oct 12 18:44:35 i dont think they'll just abandon the old hardware all together once there is new hotness Oct 12 18:44:38 but your forgetting the unicorn factor Oct 12 18:44:57 unicorn factor? Oct 12 18:44:59 http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-2-photos-leak-out Oct 12 18:45:37 yup, unicorn factor Oct 12 18:45:48 meaning? Oct 12 18:46:07 well, the more unicorns you have the faster your pre goes Oct 12 18:46:31 I'm still waiting for my money-farting unicorn Oct 12 18:46:53 hah Oct 12 18:47:08 I firmly believe halfhalo is drunk! Oct 12 18:47:27 Not drunk, insane Oct 12 18:47:31 Obama promised me a money-farting unicorn, yet it is not here Oct 12 18:47:31 thank you for your ideas :) i think i will give the pre a try Oct 12 18:48:10 sugardave: Their fighting the war on terror Oct 12 18:48:15 dohtem: stop giving drunks everywhere a bad name Oct 12 18:48:39 I always liked "The War Against Terror" Oct 12 18:48:40 oilsworkn: :) Oct 12 18:49:05 sugardave: Or as Borat called it, "your war of terror" Oct 12 18:49:17 I still haven't seen that :O Oct 12 18:49:28 I support your President's War of Terror! Oct 12 18:49:32 haha Oct 12 18:50:01 I support my war on locked doors! Oct 12 18:50:06 "war on people with black gold" Oct 12 18:50:20 oh, hands on on the pre 2 Oct 12 18:50:20 or black people with gold Oct 12 18:50:28 * sugardave tries to teach his daughter to turn word problems into simple algebraic equations. "Not going so well right now." Oct 12 18:50:38 aww Oct 12 18:50:48 sugardave: how old? Oct 12 18:50:51 12 Oct 12 18:51:05 "so train a leaves the station at 6:30 traveling east..." Oct 12 18:51:41 "whats a train?" Oct 12 18:51:41 SIMPLE ones, no time deltas or anything :D Oct 12 18:52:16 "I have 3 apples, and I eat one, how many apples do i have?" Oct 12 18:52:31 Susan and Lily started with the same amount of money. Susan spent $25, Lily spent $18. Lily now has twice as much money as Susan. How much did they start with? Oct 12 18:52:55 ah Oct 12 18:52:57 * oilsworkn hates those Oct 12 18:53:22 answer "susan is a whore" Oct 12 18:53:24 I think I'm making headway...the curriculum wants the kids to use the "bar" things Oct 12 18:53:28 I think the bars suck Oct 12 18:53:33 bars? Oct 12 18:53:50 like, literally make bars on paper to have a visual? Oct 12 18:53:52 and they're just gearing up for real equations anyway Oct 12 18:53:56 halfhalo: yes Oct 12 18:54:00 it's weird Oct 12 18:54:06 do they draw the drunks in the bar as well? Oct 12 18:54:09 heh Oct 12 18:54:43 I never had the patience for tutoring... I commend you Oct 12 18:55:04 it's a full time job around here, mostly for my wife, but I get the math :D Oct 12 18:55:15 dohtem: thats what the backhand is for Oct 12 18:55:31 oh my Oct 12 18:56:40 I had a piano teacher that would hit my knuckles with the edge of a wooden ruler when I messed up Oct 12 18:56:57 I never got past my do-re-mis Oct 12 18:57:02 mmm, negative reinforcement Oct 12 18:57:35 "Hit them again, bitch, I dare you." Oct 12 18:57:54 heh, kids have guns these days Oct 12 18:57:57 no shit Oct 12 18:58:27 "*pulls out knife and makes crazy eyes*. Hit me again. I DARE YA!" Oct 12 18:59:32 * oilsworkn pulls gun and shoots halfhalo Oct 12 18:59:52 ow Oct 12 19:11:25 $32 each Oct 12 19:11:47 and yes susan is a whore Oct 12 19:13:41 http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/12/palm-pre-2-in-the-wild/ old news? Oct 12 19:16:40 yup, old Oct 12 19:17:30 oki :s Oct 12 19:18:34 haeffb_pre: congratulations, you found out how much the whore and her sister had Oct 12 19:19:10 well, I knew what i'd paid them... Oct 12 19:26:06 goodnight Oct 12 19:53:25 beepboop Oct 12 20:08:57 Pre 2 in November? I want to believe. Oct 12 20:10:03 It's so ugly though... Oct 12 20:10:21 The lightning will kill it in sales. Oct 12 20:10:56 is that a wm7? Oct 12 20:11:30 wm7... copy & paste... coming soon! Oct 12 20:11:46 WP7* Oct 12 20:11:54 mebbe they'll even stagger the release... first you get paste, but no copy? Oct 12 20:11:59 or maybe cut but no paste! Oct 12 20:12:29 grey-: It's already done, they just haven't released the developer side of it. Oct 12 20:12:37 ah, I see Oct 12 20:12:45 * sugardave goes to check out the lightning. Oct 12 20:13:18 looks nice Oct 12 20:13:27 * Templarian is getting the HD7... which tbh makes the Pre 2 look a little weak. Oct 12 20:14:04 it's funny; I'm actually considering a Pre now... Oct 12 20:14:11 before I figured it was doomed because palm was doomed. Oct 12 20:14:18 but now that hp bought them I see a life ahead of it. Oct 12 20:14:24 android is hellllla slow. Oct 12 20:14:35 windows mobile is a nightmare I don't want to relive. Oct 12 20:14:55 grey-: Windows Phone 7 != WM. Oct 12 20:15:04 you keep saying that. Oct 12 20:15:11 heh Oct 12 20:15:18 Also not sure if you've noticed unless you OC your Palm Pre it's also a bit laggy. Oct 12 20:15:30 I noticed that :P Oct 12 20:15:39 my sprint pre is really damn slow Oct 12 20:15:43 laggy is different than running in a custom JVM. Oct 12 20:15:51 where even a screen rotation takes seconds to redraw. ;-/ Oct 12 20:15:53 i wish wp7's browser was less sucks -> use phonegap Oct 12 20:16:03 sucky Oct 12 20:16:22 also, fuck java; WebOS is designed intelligently in general... Oct 12 20:16:53 webOS evolved Oct 12 20:16:57 Actually from what I'm told it works really smooth. Of course it lacks all the fancy things, but that's what IE9 is for. Oct 12 20:17:38 * Templarian knows multiple devs with WP devices, but all of them are the 600mhz ones. Oct 12 20:17:40 it get's like 30 points in html5test.com Oct 12 20:17:49 not even canvas is supported Oct 12 20:19:45 I'm really hoping that MS allowed native opera. Oct 12 20:20:09 They said they were doing it, then everything went silent. Oct 12 20:25:46 ello =) Oct 12 20:32:42 lo Oct 12 20:40:19 l8er Oct 12 20:43:28 my sprint pre is laggy. it's also 1.5 tear old technology Oct 12 20:43:43 s/tear/year Oct 12 20:44:04 overclock it Oct 12 20:45:42 replace it with a Pre 2 Oct 12 20:46:08 and webOS 2.0 Oct 12 20:46:17 good plan Oct 12 20:46:19 move to france Oct 12 20:46:32 I vote for an option involving fire Oct 12 20:47:02 meh. I don't speak French. Oct 12 20:48:09 TIME TO LEARN Oct 12 20:48:57 or just wait for the US version... and since I'm a natural born procrastinator... Oct 12 20:49:22 * oilsworkn is wearing procrastination tshirt today Oct 12 20:50:39 my world clock app just turned into a "probably can't be in the catalog" app Oct 12 20:50:44 that sucks Oct 12 20:51:08 http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/Procrastinateqa3Detail.png Oct 12 20:51:32 sugardave: howso? Oct 12 20:51:58 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=43080#p43080 Oct 12 20:53:15 oilsworkn: I plan to wear mine tomorrow Oct 12 20:53:34 heh Oct 12 20:53:37 haeffb_pre: the procrastination shirt never gets worn? Oct 12 20:53:38 lol Oct 12 20:54:06 debugString('WELL, AIN\'T THAT THE SHIT: ' + response.errorText.date); Oct 12 20:54:07 lawls Oct 12 20:54:14 oops :D Oct 12 20:54:25 lol Oct 12 20:55:01 wow, that pre2 engadget post has 5 pages of comments, lol Oct 12 20:55:19 o Oct 12 20:55:20 m Oct 12 20:55:20 g Oct 12 20:55:29 seems to be a lot of people with black slab phones hating on palm Oct 12 20:55:30 good or not so good comments? Oct 12 20:55:35 at least I took out the one that said "THIS IS THE M-----F------ DATE A------!" Oct 12 20:55:39 lol Oct 12 20:56:56 they all want dinner-plate-sized screens and cameras with more megapixels then anyone ever needs Oct 12 20:57:13 yes I do Oct 12 20:57:38 oilsworkn: regardless, if that's what people want, shouldn't HP deliver? Oct 12 20:57:42 "omg the screen is the same size?" Oct 12 20:57:43 lol Oct 12 20:57:59 I want to wear my phone with a big gold chain, kinda bring back the flava-flav look...even have Exhibition on with a big analog clock face Oct 12 20:58:06 though, im not exactly impartial Oct 12 20:58:29 sugardave: when 1000's more want that too, sure Oct 12 20:58:51 they do, they just haven't gotten there yet Oct 12 20:59:00 I'm way ahead of the curve on this Oct 12 20:59:02 if they want slabphone, go to android/ios/wp Oct 12 20:59:04 I have seen the future Oct 12 20:59:09 * oilsworkn likes "river rock" form factor Oct 12 20:59:24 and phones that, you know, fit in my hand Oct 12 20:59:29 meh, i prefer a G2 type of phone Oct 12 20:59:44 that's what the gold chain is for, you just wear it around your neck and you can hold it in two hands in front of you Oct 12 21:00:01 it has more to do with people just wanting big screens and cameras Oct 12 21:00:17 yeah right, halfhalo probably still uses his startac Oct 12 21:00:21 it has to do with what else is available, and that once you buy the phone you are locked in for 1 to 2 years. I don't want to have that phone a year from now, because imagine what will be out?! Oct 12 21:00:47 oilsworkn: I really think there'll be a slab phone as well. Oct 12 21:00:47 it has to be competitive right out the door, or it will have very little appeal to people who know that other brands refresh constantly and always up the game Oct 12 21:02:21 I think this is going out as the "damn, we were late with this" appeasement to devs and super-fans, and the new muscle coming next year is what we really want Oct 12 21:02:33 i just came to the same conclusion Oct 12 21:02:43 but I will still probably get a Pre 2 if it comes out in November Oct 12 21:02:45 i think it's just a project that was almost complete when the acquisition happened so they had to follow through Oct 12 21:02:46 could also be a "shit, we need something for the holidays" phone Oct 12 21:02:52 I've made enough to justify purchasing one Oct 12 21:03:04 radiofreejohn: that's what I think Oct 12 21:03:10 but still, the super-fans and devs won't get this phone because like I said, they KNOW a better device is around the corner and don't want to lock into a new contract for such a paltry refresh Oct 12 21:03:25 radiofreejohn: some devs will, rich super-fans will Oct 12 21:03:30 the numbers will be small, I bet Oct 12 21:03:30 true Oct 12 21:04:00 * oilsworkn would get pre2 today if it was at the store Oct 12 21:04:02 rich superfans likely own an android and iOS phone too, you can't gain marketshare from people who don't use your device exclusively Oct 12 21:04:57 there has to be something someone thinks they know that makes this a good idea Oct 12 21:05:14 lol Oct 12 21:05:38 lol, one of the comments "whats with the blank area below the screen? why not put buttons there like android" Oct 12 21:05:46 has obviously never used a gesture Oct 12 21:05:51 stealth buttons, yo Oct 12 21:06:07 and by stealth you mean "you dont know when you've pressed it" Oct 12 21:06:11 isnt that what the ads with the creepy lady should have shown?!!! Oct 12 21:06:14 GESTURES! Oct 12 21:06:18 my parents always turn off their wifi on their laptop because of "stealthy buttons" Oct 12 21:06:24 and by buttons, i mean, not really buttons Oct 12 21:07:19 I don't think anyone thinks it was a good idea Oct 12 21:07:27 which is why nobody cares that SFR outed the thing early Oct 12 21:07:49 it would have been a great idea 6 months ago :S Oct 12 21:07:51 it seems to have been an inevitable outcome, maybe just to confuse people while they get the next device ready to ship :P Oct 12 21:07:52 * oilsworkn thinks its a good idea Oct 12 21:08:07 * haeffb_pre loves it Oct 12 21:08:07 a pre thats 2x the power of my current pre Oct 12 21:08:16 * oilsworkn signs on dotted line Oct 12 21:08:19 that's the good part Oct 12 21:08:21 overclock your pre Oct 12 21:08:23 for me Oct 12 21:08:25 lol Oct 12 21:08:36 the speed isn't even the problem Oct 12 21:08:39 you can overclock the pre? Oct 12 21:08:39 radiofreejohn: it's my dev pre/main phone, I don't oc it Oct 12 21:08:45 * halfhalo already oc'es his pre Oct 12 21:08:48 lol Oct 12 21:08:52 * halfhalo doesn't recall how much though Oct 12 21:08:57 the problem is in little details like the fixed focus camera, the horrible touch radius response on the screen, the flimsy plastic case Oct 12 21:09:01 my pre runs at 1Ghz Oct 12 21:09:24 it's my dev/main phone too :P Oct 12 21:09:31 i just set the clock normal if I am testing something Oct 12 21:09:35 or remove the kernel Oct 12 21:09:47 * sugardave is lazier than you. Oct 12 21:10:00 yeah, govnah makes that easy Oct 12 21:10:07 * oilsworkn usually runs stock Oct 12 21:10:19 * oilsworkn goes to 720 if he is using his pre a lot Oct 12 21:10:23 2x power w/ 30% better battery life Oct 12 21:10:55 better build Oct 12 21:11:24 if there are any Sprint people here, you better be getting the damned Pre 2 Oct 12 21:11:33 is it CDMA? Oct 12 21:11:38 I assumed it was GSM because of SFR Oct 12 21:11:47 that one is GSM, probably Oct 12 21:11:49 I'm not re-upping my contract for the Pre2, unfortunately Oct 12 21:12:00 after getting skipped on the + Oct 12 21:12:13 but, if it TRULY is the successor, I guess it will be made in both flavors Oct 12 21:12:40 I've got a pretty sweet deal with Sprint, so I'd rather stay with them Oct 12 21:12:43 it makes sense, since Sprint has been quick to respond to software updates etc... Oct 12 21:12:51 my contract isn't up until June anyway Oct 12 21:12:56 and maybe they passed on the Plus varieties to have first bat at the next round Oct 12 21:13:02 but, I don't think the Pre2 is what they had in mind Oct 12 21:13:05 perhaps Oct 12 21:13:26 you can re-up at sprint after a year I think, without paying full price, you will still pay something though I think Oct 12 21:13:29 /nick radionegativenancy Oct 12 21:13:36 hah Oct 12 21:13:41 lol Oct 12 21:14:12 not negative, I love Palm, I am just pointing out how horrible the Pre2 is, it's likely not their fault at all, I am positive towards a new, non-refresh device, and I am confident that will happen within 6 months Oct 12 21:14:15 or at least be announced Oct 12 21:14:44 well, they all but announced it...we know they're coming Oct 12 21:14:48 we just don't know what they are Oct 12 21:15:02 ya, my contract is up in April, i think i can wait until then Oct 12 21:15:04 I have a first gen disassembled Palm Pilot in a box at home, along with a Tapwave Zodiac... I seem to frequently possess Palm related gear that was before its time, but still somehow a failure :P Oct 12 21:15:58 I still don't get why Sprint didn't market the turn by turn GPS in their version of the Pre, it is really fantastic, and a lot better than a creepy pale lady Oct 12 21:16:19 turn by turn gps != palm Oct 12 21:16:54 which is why I said why didn't Spring market it Oct 12 21:16:56 Sprint Oct 12 21:16:59 it's a selling point Oct 12 21:17:08 at the time it wasn't available on the iPhone at all Oct 12 21:17:12 when it first hit Sprint Oct 12 21:17:15 oilsworkn: I solved the pickers problem, mostly Oct 12 21:17:36 sugardave: oh? Oct 12 21:18:09 yeah, I just blew off updating via list re-render and just setWidgetModel when I need to update the children Oct 12 21:19:03 now even the pickers keep the current time because I update them every minute, but I'll probably keep them static at their first converted time Oct 12 21:21:47 oh, there is nobody in the front office, im going to have to go out there and deal with this guy... Oct 12 21:22:19 he keeps clearing his throat trying to get my attention Oct 12 21:22:20 lols Oct 12 21:22:31 "deal" with him Oct 12 21:22:44 which means Oct 12 21:22:52 make sure he doesn't come back Oct 12 21:22:54 "i can't help you, stop clearing your throat till someone who can gets back" Oct 12 21:24:00 hm, the pre2 page at SFR is down now :P didn't notice that Oct 12 21:24:36 palm.sfr.com I think is still up Oct 12 21:27:53 site is up the pre2 page is 404 Oct 12 21:29:15 why is the Pre2 horrible? Oct 12 21:29:28 because it's not a 4.5" slab? Oct 12 21:29:47 haeffb: apparently? Oct 12 21:30:08 because it's only slightly better than the rest of the phones released right now and not cutting-edge like everyone was hoping Oct 12 21:30:23 what would be cuttin-edge? Oct 12 21:30:35 2GHz processor? Oct 12 21:30:36 2 20megapixel cameras Oct 12 21:30:40 10 inch screen Oct 12 21:30:41 something with decently better specs than current phones Oct 12 21:30:51 quad core Oct 12 21:30:52 but the pre2 -is- a current phone Oct 12 21:30:53 it's double the processor speed! Oct 12 21:31:12 i want the one with the bigger jeebees Oct 12 21:31:26 it has the three jees and the why fhys Oct 12 21:31:42 also, does it fucking print money? Oct 12 21:31:48 mine has the four gees Oct 12 21:31:51 it does for Rovio... :) Oct 12 21:32:32 honestly, i'm not being irrational about it. obviously we need to wait for the official specs, but one of the new dual core processors would be nice, an SD slot, front-facing camera, etc Oct 12 21:33:34 4G would be badass, but i have a feeling we're waiting Oct 12 21:34:29 * summatusmentis is in the process of activating his pre Oct 12 21:35:30 * haeffb was under the impression that dual core processors aren't even available today Oct 12 21:35:33 personally, I think that a first gen dual core chip would be a disaster right now because there's really no idea on what the battery life would be Oct 12 21:35:38 summatusmentis: Congrats! Oct 12 21:35:51 awesome phone is coming CES. Oct 12 21:36:08 I think there's a reason why Blackberry didn't talk about battery life when unveiling the Playbook Oct 12 21:36:38 haeffb: thanks :) Oct 12 21:38:33 SineOt: to be fair, BBs typically have awesome battery life Oct 12 21:38:51 not sure how that will translate to the Playbook Oct 12 21:38:59 saying pre2 haters hate it because it's not a 4.5 slab is a total straw man argument, it avoids the real weaknesses, though like you say, the official specs aren't out Oct 12 21:39:31 I'm asking, what are the weaknesses? Oct 12 21:39:34 what is the real weakness then Oct 12 21:39:38 front-facing camera. Oct 12 21:39:48 SD slot. Oct 12 21:39:58 the flimsy slider, the weak keys, the fixed focus camera Oct 12 21:40:06 the poor responsiveness of the touch screen Oct 12 21:40:14 ya, i'm hoping they've updated the framework of the internals so it's not as cheap feeling Oct 12 21:40:18 I have none of those...except the camera Oct 12 21:40:26 my pre slider is solid Oct 12 21:40:28 "its real weakness is that its not an iphone" Oct 12 21:40:36 no, that's a straw man again Oct 12 21:40:36 which is all stuff that hasn't been touched on since the only details about it are a brief french press release and some leaked shots? :x Oct 12 21:40:37 I assume a Pre 2 will have an equally solid slider Oct 12 21:40:48 the pre when it came out had some features the iPhone didn't even have, so it was not all about not being an iphone Oct 12 21:40:50 haeffb: you do know your slider experience is not typical, right? Oct 12 21:40:50 the only real problem ive had with my pre, is headset wonkyness Oct 12 21:40:50 you can't tell from leaked shots that it has "weak keys" Oct 12 21:40:52 my Pre had video recording before the iPhone Oct 12 21:41:07 the resolution is pretty weak, the screen size is small, even for the form factor Oct 12 21:41:10 haeffb: you're assuming that because your slider is fine, other people's must be too Oct 12 21:41:12 dohtem: I know that early Pre's had problems. I had one and broke it. Oct 12 21:41:23 i've had 3 Pres and all the sliders have eventually gone to shit Oct 12 21:41:29 I have access to three Pre's and all three are solid. Oct 12 21:41:37 this latest one is better than the previous 2, but it's still cheap feeling Oct 12 21:41:41 well congrats, you're luck Oct 12 21:41:42 lucky Oct 12 21:41:53 mine has not broken entirely yet Oct 12 21:42:00 but within weeks it had an off axis wobble Oct 12 21:43:20 I don't see how you can rage on strawmen arguments while insisting that the "real weaknesses" of a phone that hasn't been announced yet with a redesigned face are the same as the previous two iterations of it :x Oct 12 21:43:21 the silver thing that is on my earpiece cracked off a few weeks ago Oct 12 21:43:21 I routinely check other slider models when out and about, and I think the Pre compares favorably with any that I see in Sprint stores, Wal-mart, etc. Oct 12 21:43:35 no, sine, those are the weaknesses of the Pre Oct 12 21:43:55 I am assuming that many of them are not changed in the Pre2, based on assumptions, for sure Oct 12 21:43:55 * oilsworkn returns to his "/nick radionegativenancy" comment Oct 12 21:44:07 the physical design looks improved, more sturdy Oct 12 21:44:15 lol Oct 12 21:44:22 the keyboard looks very much the same, the resolution is the same, the camera, maybe it's variable focus, that'd be nice Oct 12 21:44:46 maybe it turns into a magic carpet Oct 12 21:44:48 what's wrong with the resolution? Oct 12 21:44:55 taking the little widget out of the USB hole is a nice improvement, but it's not groundbreaking Oct 12 21:45:22 it's not a RetinaDisplay(tm)!!!! Oct 12 21:45:26 the resolution and screen size are sort of chicken and egg, I guess, but I think the screen size should be slightly larger, not 4.5, not even 4.0, Oct 12 21:45:34 I don't care about retina display Oct 12 21:45:58 then why care that the resolution is the same? :/ Oct 12 21:46:24 because I use a pre and I find the screen to be smaller than I want and that goes hand in hand with the resolution Oct 12 21:46:28 because fancy words that apple uses in their announcements are important! Oct 12 21:46:31 dude Oct 12 21:46:38 what makes you think I am some kind of iOS fanboy? lol Oct 12 21:46:44 just because I am dogging on the Pre, you can be critical of something you love Oct 12 21:46:53 you're the one bringing up retina displays Oct 12 21:46:56 no i'm not Oct 12 21:47:00 sorry, i meant to quote "retina" display Oct 12 21:47:00 i never said anything about retina displays Oct 12 21:47:07 what resolution would you rather it be then Oct 12 21:47:11 if this is too small Oct 12 21:47:13 I'd like a screen twice as big as the Pre, if I could still fit it in my pocket. Oct 12 21:47:16 I don't care about retina display Oct 12 21:47:24 you did say something about it :) Oct 12 21:47:28 * dohtem thinks Palm employees read the irc logs and chuckle Oct 12 21:47:28 because someone else said haeffb: it's not a RetinaDisplay(tm)!!!! Oct 12 21:47:31 but I couldn't Oct 12 21:47:34 lol Oct 12 21:47:48 operation confustion is sofar a success Oct 12 21:47:50 unless I bought a new wardrobe Oct 12 21:47:59 you are ignoring everything I say, haeffb, I already said it doesn't need to be 4.0 or 4.5 Oct 12 21:48:03 or even for the form factor to change Oct 12 21:48:37 so, you dont want the formfactor to change? Oct 12 21:48:39 "what resolution would you rather it be then if this is too small" Oct 12 21:48:45 I want it to, but I wouldn't consider that a deal breaker Oct 12 21:48:53 not negative, I love Palm, I am just pointing out how horrible the Pre2 is Oct 12 21:48:57 SineQt: I have no preference, it's purely an aesthetic desire Oct 12 21:49:04 it could improve :) Oct 12 21:49:35 I should say how horrible I think the Pre2 is as a boost to the mindshare of HPalm phone users Oct 12 21:49:54 ok, that's a different argument Oct 12 21:50:03 and I also said, earlier, that the Pre2 is by no means a deal breaker since it seems clear that the Pre2 is not the only device in the pipeline for the near future Oct 12 21:50:08 * oilsworkn has trouble following what exactly radionegativenancy is saying Oct 12 21:50:17 hahaha Oct 12 21:50:24 i am trying to respond to three different people all having the same argument Oct 12 21:50:37 the tablet is the boost to the mindshare, I think that much has been obvious from the moment HP first started talking about it Oct 12 21:50:38 how is that workin' out for ya? Oct 12 21:50:43 pretty good Oct 12 21:50:44 the phones are just bonus items Oct 12 21:51:05 radiofreejohn: when having conversations with multiple people, its helpful to prefix each with their nick Oct 12 21:51:08 the phone is more than that, it's a lock into a platform, a carrier and an overall environment Oct 12 21:51:11 SineOt:: And the printers? Oct 12 21:51:16 oh man Oct 12 21:51:17 oh yeah and the printers Oct 12 21:51:19 radiofreejohn: or else each thinks each comment is to them Oct 12 21:51:21 because everyone owns a printer Oct 12 21:51:22 I am ALL OVER some printer apps Oct 12 21:51:25 * haeffb is locked into carrier first. phone second. Oct 12 21:51:33 * oilsworkn wants "report ink levels correctly patch" Oct 12 21:51:44 there's even like, 3 printers here :B Oct 12 21:51:49 oilsworkn: sorry I haven't used IRC since 1997, I forgot my etiquette :P Oct 12 21:51:57 one that says "Good owner!" when you put authorized HP ink in Oct 12 21:52:01 radiofreejohn: just helpful pointers :) Oct 12 21:52:05 oilsworkn: I wasn't prefixing because I was basically responding to all 3 people :P Oct 12 21:52:10 imagine, your printer automatically gets new issues of Playboy and prints them while your wife is out... webOS! Oct 12 21:52:14 Brother 2170W <3 Oct 12 21:52:35 dohtem: uh. wow. Oct 12 21:52:41 :) Oct 12 21:52:42 just. wow.!!! Oct 12 21:52:44 dohtem: what an expensive way to look at softcore Oct 12 21:52:45 can you imagine printing from a webos phone to a webos printer? you could flick cards at the printer and they'd just SHOOT OUT Oct 12 21:52:49 or it prints it half way, stops and says buy more Ink Oct 12 21:52:53 * sugardave still hopes HP makes another app contest where the grand prize is free ink for life. Oct 12 21:52:54 and your wife comes home while you are making a taco Oct 12 21:52:56 busted! Oct 12 21:53:06 laser printers ftw Oct 12 21:53:09 "it was a WEBOS virus" Oct 12 21:53:18 laser printers still take toner Oct 12 21:53:26 sugardave: let's not get carried away now... ink is where the money is! Oct 12 21:53:30 yes, but cheaper than buying ink Oct 12 21:53:37 but at least toner gets you a ton more pages for the price Oct 12 21:53:37 only slightly Oct 12 21:53:44 when most people are only printing black and white Oct 12 21:53:45 but then you also have to get transfer rollers, fusers, etc, etc Oct 12 21:53:47 * haeffb prints black and white Oct 12 21:53:50 surely one person less on the planet having to but ink will not sink HP Oct 12 21:53:55 * oilsworkn doesnt print Oct 12 21:53:56 I want to be that person Oct 12 21:54:03 s/but/buy/ Oct 12 21:54:07 * oilsworkn chisels into stone Oct 12 21:54:21 * haeffb doesn't buy 5-bladed razors, either Oct 12 21:54:30 lol Oct 12 21:54:31 no, I stopped at 3 Oct 12 21:54:33 shick quattro ftw Oct 12 21:54:46 just sport a beard Oct 12 21:54:47 bic disposable Oct 12 21:55:38 Seriously, I think the Pre is a great phone, and the Pre 2 will be a great phone. But you're right that it will be hard to sell to the masses. Oct 12 21:55:58 Palm missed their chance at Sexy. Oct 12 21:56:11 if the masses wanted a steamy pile of crap, would you produce it? Oct 12 21:56:22 anyways, I don't think they want to sell it to the masses, this is just to fulfill their contracts and follow through with the pre-acquisition product line, so that's OK Oct 12 21:56:24 any phone is a hard sell to the masses, though. the only ones that are easy sells have advertising budgets that are massive and SAY that you should want it Oct 12 21:56:29 yeah, this is not a phone for the masses....and all those French people are going to be pissed they got hard-sold Pres and Pixis when the new stuff comes Oct 12 21:56:32 which is why I am anxiously awaiting a second device Oct 12 21:56:44 sugardave: they're French. Oct 12 21:57:16 oh yeah Oct 12 21:57:26 hey quick question, did anyone have to send in that excel sheet for the dev device? Oct 12 21:57:39 I'm still waiting for my initial response :( Oct 12 21:57:45 * oilsworkn already got a devpre Oct 12 21:57:46 I still haven't even heard back from my initial email about the dev devices, it's kind of frustrating :/ Oct 12 21:57:51 thanks to all of you! you lovely people! Oct 12 21:57:58 been 2 weeks now waiting Oct 12 21:58:01 * sugardave didn't contribute. Oct 12 21:58:06 I got another email asking for the same info, as the excel sheet, what gives? Oct 12 21:58:07 * sugardave feels slightly bad about it. Oct 12 21:58:12 oilsworkn, how long did it take? Oct 12 21:58:19 have a feeling I'll hear back November 1st saying "Oh sorry deadline was October 31st!" Oct 12 21:58:24 Nyceane: mine was purchased with webosinternals funds Oct 12 21:58:40 Nyceane! Oct 12 21:58:45 dohtem! Oct 12 21:58:45 are you in SF yet? Oct 12 21:58:52 i was there last week for health 2.0 Oct 12 21:58:52 * dohtem does a little dance Oct 12 21:59:02 moving up there on december Oct 12 21:59:07 already give my resignation letter Oct 12 21:59:22 sugardave: when did you send in your initial question about the dev devices? Oct 12 21:59:29 Nyceane: new job? Oct 12 21:59:33 yah, in sf Oct 12 21:59:38 congrats Oct 12 21:59:46 i'll be building webos software instead of asp.net/c# Oct 12 22:00:04 score Oct 12 22:00:07 btw, how did the health 2.0 thing go? You eventually get a team? Oct 12 22:00:08 =D Oct 12 22:00:21 I got a team, they gave me $500 best buy gift card Oct 12 22:00:33 which I am going to return my ipad and buy it back with that gift card from best buy Oct 12 22:00:50 lol Oct 12 22:00:53 heh Oct 12 22:01:01 SineOt: I think only 10 days ago Oct 12 22:01:04 i heard a lot of good things about the new blackberry pad Oct 12 22:01:06 I was procrastinating Oct 12 22:01:29 I sent mine the 29th of last month, still no reply :/ Oct 12 22:01:33 Nyceane: man, wish I went. Oct 12 22:01:47 I could've gotten you in my team and you would've went for free =) Oct 12 22:01:52 * oilsworkn wonders if his vote counted for anything good Oct 12 22:01:58 SineOt: that could be a good sign, lots of devs Oct 12 22:01:58 now he tells me Oct 12 22:02:05 oilsworkn, i didnt win that one =( Oct 12 22:02:18 I think I put jamie oliver in my app, and michelle doesn't really like jamie Oct 12 22:02:21 s/devs/people who want free phones/ Oct 12 22:02:27 sugardave: or a bad sign that they ran out of devices on like, day one and just don't have the heart to tell people :c Oct 12 22:02:31 at least for political reasons, since jamie is attacking a lot of big food corporations Oct 12 22:02:40 and michelle can't take bias on that Oct 12 22:02:44 SineOt: "pre-release Pre 2"...IT COULD HAPPEN Oct 12 22:02:48 ;) Oct 12 22:02:54 LOL Oct 12 22:03:09 heh Oct 12 22:03:12 haha. While that'd be cool, I'd love a pre-release Broadway instead. ;P Oct 12 22:03:13 * oilsworkn wonders if devdays NY gets free pre2s Oct 12 22:03:23 anybody got one? Oct 12 22:03:31 they'll get Sprint Pres! Oct 12 22:03:35 a pre from palm? Oct 12 22:03:43 yah Oct 12 22:03:43 oilsworkn: man, I thought the same thing this morning Oct 12 22:03:53 * oilsworkn thinks webosinternals should sign up for a box full Oct 12 22:04:11 "Attention everyone, you get these, but if we see any pictures, stories, hints...we will find you and cut out your heart." Oct 12 22:04:27 Nyceane: a few people, to my knowledge, should be getting them today Oct 12 22:04:32 at least 2 people that I know of Oct 12 22:04:34 oilsworkn: talk to devrel, they might toss a few your way. Oct 12 22:04:38 an hour later: 'precentral exclusive, onscreen keyboard reference found!' Oct 12 22:04:50 well not pre2s Oct 12 22:04:52 lol Oct 12 22:04:54 well, it wouldn't be my heart Oct 12 22:04:57 :P Oct 12 22:05:03 which makes me even more confused as to why some devs are already getting their dev phones and I haven't heard back yet :s Oct 12 22:05:14 * halfhalo would ask for a dev pixi but they wouldn't give him one Oct 12 22:05:41 I wonder if there's a warehouse of Pres and Pixis somewhere Oct 12 22:05:55 I wonder if "might be rejected by the security scanner" means "go ahead and try to submit it anyway" Oct 12 22:06:00 I got lucky there in that my personal phone is a Pixi :p Oct 12 22:06:02 I think that's what it means Oct 12 22:06:02 lol Oct 12 22:06:49 sugardave: obviously Oct 12 22:07:04 SineOt, I am wondering if the dev phone is pre or pre 2 Oct 12 22:07:04 lol Oct 12 22:07:22 I dont mind a pre, if its running on WebOS 2.0 Oct 12 22:07:25 pre- Oct 12 22:07:26 dev phone is a pixi, no service, no wifi Oct 12 22:07:30 this way I can do some testing on this super cool app I've built =D Oct 12 22:08:04 my guess would be that it's a Pre+ and that it's a move to clear backstocked inventory before the Pre2 launches officially Oct 12 22:08:12 uh oh Oct 12 22:08:18 we've come too close to the truth Oct 12 22:08:21 chuqui had to leave Oct 12 22:08:31 like what Apple does every summer with iPods and college students Oct 12 22:09:04 "get a free ipod*!" Oct 12 22:09:05 *so we don't have tons of these sitting around in a warehouse when we intro the new ones in two months Oct 12 22:09:26 SineOt: yeah but you gotta buy a MacBook Pro first Oct 12 22:09:50 details Oct 12 22:09:54 it's any Mac, except for the Mini Oct 12 22:10:11 and it only comes in black Oct 12 22:10:12 and if my campus is any indication? that doesn't stop people from buying them anyways, the iPod is just a nice bonus Oct 12 22:11:03 "refer 15 friends and fill out these offers and you'll get your free ipod" Oct 12 22:15:12 remember those deals? Oct 12 22:15:27 you had to sign up for like 5 things Oct 12 22:15:46 and keep them for a month, and then you got an iPod Oct 12 22:15:53 the free ipod with the edu deal is great because you can resell it in box :P Oct 12 22:22:03 dohtem: did anyone actually ever get an ipod from there though? Oct 12 22:22:14 yeah Oct 12 22:22:29 I never tried but I know folks that did Oct 12 22:22:42 I think Kevin Rose famously posted on his blog that he did Oct 12 22:22:49 alright, got the first email, now I wait some more Oct 12 22:23:02 sugardave: pm? Oct 12 22:23:26 sugardave: lol, really? :C Oct 12 22:23:41 yeah, like 5 minutes ago :D Oct 12 22:23:56 must have been all that bitching Oct 12 22:23:56 man :/ Oct 12 22:24:07 oilsworkn: that's right, that's how shit gets done :D Oct 12 22:24:11 Lol Oct 12 22:24:13 this wait sucks! Oct 12 22:24:21 squeaky wheel gets the oil, right? Oct 12 22:24:26 that's right Oct 12 22:24:27 well, that or replaced Oct 12 22:24:39 With a hammer Oct 12 22:24:44 wait, we get you if we squeak enough? D: Oct 12 22:24:55 knock knock! Oct 12 22:25:18 * oilsworkn wishes someone would have knocked at your door right after he said that Oct 12 22:25:34 that shit only happens in movies though Oct 12 22:25:38 and we're not in a movie Oct 12 22:25:40 afaik Oct 12 22:25:52 Or ar we? Oct 12 22:26:06 dun dun DUNNNNN Oct 12 22:27:02 I hope it's not a romantic comedy those tend to be pretty bad :< Oct 12 22:27:18 I'm bored and want to do something in ruby/rails but I have no dev stuff on my laptop... Oct 12 22:27:18 except Hitch. :) Oct 12 22:27:19 "in a world..." Oct 12 22:27:22 * sugardave looks around for Richard Gere. Oct 12 22:27:29 "where chickens don't cross roads...." Oct 12 22:27:33 hmmm, whats in my queue thats retartedly easy to do... Oct 12 22:27:38 "one man...." Oct 12 22:27:48 * oilsworkn ALMOST SAID "one man..." Oct 12 22:27:52 but was going to let it die right there Oct 12 22:27:52 :) Oct 12 22:28:06 Pablo Francisco? Oct 12 22:31:41 I know you guys probably get this a lot, but I have a pre, and it's working! Oct 12 22:31:55 you get your dev Pre from Palm? Oct 12 22:32:03 lies! Oct 12 22:32:16 SineOt: nope, I don't, you know, do dev work yet :) Oct 12 22:32:40 * oilsworkn wonders where the other half-a-halo is Oct 12 22:32:45 ah. wait, where you the one thinking about getting one as your contract upgrade? Oct 12 22:32:46 what now? Oct 12 22:32:59 where's the other halfhalo so we can have a fullhalo? Oct 12 22:32:59 SineOt: yes Oct 12 22:32:59 * halfhalo is on windows with trillian and its crap irc Oct 12 22:33:08 SineOt: I ended up buying on ebay Oct 12 22:33:26 ah, cool! Yeah, ebay/craigslist has some great phone deals sometimes Oct 12 22:33:49 the two halfhalos combine to create.... Oct 12 22:33:51 captain planet? Oct 12 22:33:57 no Oct 12 22:34:05 aw Oct 12 22:34:06 mass murder/insane person? maybe Oct 12 22:34:09 that would have been cool Oct 12 22:34:22 mass murdering/insane... captain planet? Oct 12 22:34:36 meh, its a slight possibility Oct 12 22:34:39 does anyone know anything about how to replace the on/off switch? Oct 12 22:34:42 so wait a minute Oct 12 22:34:45 what is ruby? Oct 12 22:34:51 what on off switch? Oct 12 22:34:54 SineOt: yeh, the ebay phone works pretty well, it's a little bit scuffy, but overall it's good Oct 12 22:34:59 oilsworkn: top right of the phone Oct 12 22:35:05 oh, the button xD Oct 12 22:35:16 I guess it's the suspend button Oct 12 22:35:18 ruby is a programming language used in ruby on rails which is great for websites Oct 12 22:35:19 I thought Ruby was a js framework more or less Oct 12 22:35:24 switch makes me think like, the mute toggle Oct 12 22:35:30 oilsworkn: yeh, sorry Oct 12 22:35:40 however, no, no experience here Oct 12 22:35:44 no, its not related to js in any way Oct 12 22:35:59 ah, okay Oct 12 22:36:18 ruby is just Oct 12 22:36:21 forget about ruby Oct 12 22:36:26 orly Oct 12 22:36:35 then you would like redmine to go away to? Oct 12 22:36:53 preferably Oct 12 22:36:58 lol Oct 12 22:37:06 the only user-submitted ticket sofar was a dupe Oct 12 22:37:09 lol Oct 12 22:37:18 no-one knows about it Oct 12 22:37:25 well tell more people Oct 12 22:37:26 sugardave: ugh this email thing is bothering me. Even a "no" would be better than this waiting in limbo thing Oct 12 22:37:31 psh Oct 12 22:37:39 I have to work on the wiki plugin for redmine Oct 12 22:38:13 it will be... interesting Oct 12 22:38:28 and I do like the message on the frontpage for redmine Oct 12 22:38:49 SineOt: it will come Oct 12 22:39:29 if you build it? Oct 12 22:39:39 halfhalo: haha Oct 12 22:39:54 * SineOt fires up Minecraft, builds a massive Pre with a screen made of lava? Oct 12 22:41:14 actually that'd be pretty cool :x Oct 12 22:41:17 SineOt: setup webos multiplayer server Oct 12 22:41:21 * oilsworkn will join and help Oct 12 22:41:48 haha, if you're serious I'll do that later Oct 12 22:41:55 and by help, i mean destroy whatever you create and get zombies to eat you Oct 12 22:41:59 no, seriously Oct 12 22:42:10 it's a good thing there's no damage in SMP yet then :V Oct 12 22:42:18 or mobs for that matter Oct 12 22:42:23 * oilsworkn hasn't played mb yet Oct 12 22:42:28 multiplayer* Oct 12 22:43:33 there has to be some other people around these parts with minecraft Oct 12 22:43:37 it's uh, lacking I guess is the best word for it Oct 12 22:44:02 thinking about the stuff that doesn't work in mp yet: minecarts, redstone, damage, mobs, doors (lol), buckets Oct 12 22:44:22 whaaa, gay Oct 12 22:44:58 hopefully the halloween update fixes most of that because it basically takes out all the cool stuff you could do in mp Oct 12 22:45:31 what in the hell are y'all talking about? Oct 12 22:45:36 I can't have a sweet lava screen if there's no way to use buckets Oct 12 22:45:51 sugardave: you don't want to know Oct 12 22:45:58 http://minecraft.net/ ~indy gaming that will suck your time away~ Oct 12 22:46:22 and also made a swede filthy rich Oct 12 22:46:23 hmmm Oct 12 22:46:43 * oilsworkn bought it Oct 12 22:46:55 GUYS Oct 12 22:47:02 THEY PORTED RROOTAGE TO WEBOS Oct 12 22:47:20 * SineOt did too Oct 12 22:47:30 * oilsworkn wonders what rrootage is Oct 12 22:47:55 assuming the current exchange rate, I think Notch has made like $5,200,000 holy shit Oct 12 22:48:00 no wonder Paypal froze his account Oct 12 22:48:48 sugardave: pm Oct 12 22:49:06 trying to get there, I don't know how to switch to window 13 in irssi Oct 12 22:49:07 :S Oct 12 22:49:15 /win 13 Oct 12 22:49:24 command line supremacy? :T Oct 12 22:49:28 lol Oct 12 22:49:28 or esc-e Oct 12 22:49:29 get a real OS Oct 12 22:49:42 alt-a goes to most recently active I guess Oct 12 22:49:43 or esc-a to switch to active windows. Oct 12 22:50:29 grey-: ah, /win is handy...thanks Oct 12 22:50:44 and it sounds so positive, too Oct 12 22:51:08 * oilsworkn adds /win command to wirc Oct 12 22:51:33 why... Oct 12 22:51:38 hehe Oct 12 22:51:42 all it does is send something disturbing to all the channels you're in, then deletes wirc Oct 12 22:51:55 win Oct 12 22:52:16 soething like "its all halfhalos fault" Oct 12 22:52:32 i can live with that Oct 12 22:53:12 that's not disturbing Oct 12 22:53:30 its not :/ Oct 12 22:54:52 "it's all halfhalos fault "? Oct 12 22:54:59 lol Oct 12 22:55:09 i didn't want to say anything disturbing in #webos Oct 12 22:55:11 shit Oct 12 22:55:16 not like ill ever get kicked though Oct 12 22:55:19 I think I forgot my palm profile password Oct 12 22:55:21 there is never any mods around Oct 12 22:56:05 i found what radionegativenancy wanted his next phone to be Oct 12 22:56:06 http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/12/hyundai-it-shows-off-70-inch-multitouch-table-concept/ Oct 12 22:56:27 yes, exactly that Oct 12 22:56:39 lol Oct 12 22:56:43 you read my mind, but I have some complaints, 70 inches just seems like it won't be enough Oct 12 22:56:50 lol Oct 12 22:56:51 i also prefer one that uses metric Oct 12 22:56:54 not enough cameras? Oct 12 22:57:03 yeah, it should have two front facing for 3d video chat Oct 12 22:57:21 and bridged 8 bridged wimax connections Oct 12 22:57:23 for free Oct 12 22:57:27 holographic chat? Oct 12 22:57:35 no, just 3d, stop strawmanning! Oct 12 22:57:39 lol Oct 12 23:00:48 ugh Oct 12 23:00:55 password reset systems Oct 12 23:01:21 just another brand new shiny password and "secret question" to forget Oct 12 23:02:27 that's why all my passwords are 123abc Oct 12 23:06:45 ou hou! Oct 12 23:06:55 thyme 2 haxor all ur bases Oct 12 23:06:58 hello torchie Oct 12 23:07:05 hi Oct 12 23:13:01 hey chuqui. good afternoon. Oct 12 23:25:53 hm, from what I've read, webOS ships with an inbuilt version of Prototype, right? Oct 12 23:26:15 has anyone ever used moo.fx's prototype version successfully in an app? Oct 12 23:26:36 SineOt: unknown Oct 12 23:26:52 yes on Prototype, unknown about moo Oct 12 23:28:05 hmm... any idea what version of Prototype it's based on? Oct 12 23:28:29 an old 1.6 one, I think Oct 12 23:28:32 moo seems to work fine, but it breaks on "Fx.Style = Class.create();" with claiming Class is undefined. Oct 12 23:28:55 I know Class.create exists, I've seen it in lots of code, though I have never used it Oct 12 23:29:02 I stick with the prorotypal model Oct 12 23:29:10 prototypal, too Oct 12 23:29:52 I'm really only using this because it's a tiny (like 3kb) add on that gives some nice animation effects, and it piggy backs on Prototype for everything else Oct 12 23:30:06 although I may try CSS3 animations, since I know those work too Oct 12 23:30:13 most of them do Oct 12 23:31:55 I've never played with CSS3 animation much, though. I'd imagine they're fairly easy to adjust with javascript Oct 12 23:32:58 I've basically got the app finished except for the animation :p Oct 12 23:33:38 prototype's css manipulation is easy as pie Oct 12 23:34:09 this.controller.get(elementId).style.[someProperty] = [value] Oct 12 23:34:15 and more Oct 12 23:34:25 I guess that's straight JS Oct 12 23:34:35 either way, easy Oct 12 23:35:00 you could mix in $('elementId') and make it more prototypey I guess Oct 12 23:35:16 not if you use multi-stage Oct 12 23:35:33 avoid $ Oct 12 23:35:40 use $L Oct 12 23:35:40 I thought it was $$ to not use in multi-stage? Oct 12 23:35:55 nope Oct 12 23:35:58 just one $ Oct 12 23:36:06 ah, okay...well I don't use $ anyway Oct 12 23:36:16 good dog, sugardave! Oct 12 23:36:23 I like to type, I guess Oct 12 23:36:33 hmmm...speaking of which, where are my dogs? Oct 12 23:36:47 hm, $L? Oct 12 23:36:50 probably digging up the yard to make the world safe from moles Oct 12 23:36:52 mine is currently banished to the backyard because the Chinese food came Oct 12 23:37:02 * SineOt doesn't think that's in the prototype API book, hasn't ever seen $L Oct 12 23:37:07 SineOt: $L('some text you want to localize') Oct 12 23:37:08 $L('My Text String') is used for localization Oct 12 23:37:19 ah Oct 12 23:37:30 * haeffb is getting Papa Johns delivered Oct 12 23:37:40 that's probably why, that sounds more like a Mojo thing than a Prototype thing, right? Oct 12 23:37:46 yep, mojo Oct 12 23:37:48 haeffb: did you order it via text message? lol Oct 12 23:38:04 almost. Wife is bringing it from town. Oct 12 23:38:21 * haeffb loves me some Papa John's garlic dipping sauce Oct 12 23:39:36 it's way tasty stuff, yeah Oct 12 23:39:41 are catalog numbers updating or you guys? Oct 12 23:39:49 er, dev portal numbers? Oct 12 23:41:13 I have no idea Oct 12 23:41:26 If they are, my sales are craptastic. Oct 12 23:41:52 yeah, I know what you mean Oct 12 23:41:58 mine haven't moved since Saturday Oct 12 23:42:18 what apps did the two of you make, out of curiosity Oct 12 23:42:29 I made Pickup Sports Oct 12 23:42:43 Done!, Noted!, Myles, TaskAdder Oct 12 23:42:51 it is a leading software that allows you to find Pickup Sports =) Oct 12 23:43:21 in order: Oct 12 23:43:22 * haeffb finds pickup sports at the YMCA Oct 12 23:43:44 Mind Master, Yule Log, BOFH Excuse Generator, iHaveSpirit Beta, and now Scan Do! Oct 12 23:43:51 plus some for other people as a freelancer Oct 12 23:44:14 they get better as the timeline progresses ;) Oct 12 23:44:39 yeah, mine too! Can't wait to see what I write in 20 years...! Oct 12 23:44:42 heh Oct 12 23:44:58 or maybe I've hit a wall. Oct 12 23:45:05 haven't done anything in a month. Oct 12 23:45:17 you can write "20 years of haeffb programs: a retrospective" Oct 12 23:45:56 hopefully it's not "20 Years Waiting for the Pre 2" Oct 12 23:46:39 no no no, "Pretastrophe: 20 Years Waiting for the Pre 2" Oct 12 23:47:11 way catchier that way Oct 12 23:54:40 I need to spiff up my Noted! icon. Any ideas? Oct 12 23:55:05 rwhitby: did you see this: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=43080#p43080 ? Oct 12 23:59:41 sugardave: bummer Oct 13 00:00:26 seems kind of dumb to fix a bug in a method that isn't getting used in any Palm apps only to leave it as an off limits thing in the security scanner, but maybe that's just me Oct 13 00:00:50 rwhitby: yeah, I may try to submit it anyway and if it fails, re-lease it in Preware Oct 13 00:02:21 yeah, submit it anyway, then do a NanPlayer dummy spit when it's not accepted ;) Oct 13 00:02:25 sugardave: //debugString('WELL, AIN\'T THAT THE SHIT: ' + response.errorText.date); ? Oct 13 00:02:42 debugString is not part of Mojo, that won't work for you Oct 13 00:02:54 and response.errorText.date is undefined, since it's just a string :D Oct 13 00:03:05 errorText, that is Oct 13 00:03:32 what library is that from? Or is that your function? Oct 13 00:03:57 mine Oct 13 00:05:35 and the profanity? Oct 13 00:06:01 i'm happy to see I'm not the only one who uses angry words in debug strings Oct 13 00:06:57 heh, I had a friend that accidentally turned his assignement in with a few F-bombs in the source code. Oct 13 00:07:05 The Professor was not happy Oct 13 00:07:18 dohtem: 15:53 < sugardave> at least I took out the one that said "THIS IS THE M-----F------ DATE A------!" Oct 13 00:07:36 :) Oct 13 00:09:31 sugardave: submit it to the catalog, and if they reject they'll offer you a job! Oct 13 00:09:33 it never goes out in my apps, because I remove all my debug* calls Oct 13 00:09:43 haeffb: that's how it works, I hear Oct 13 00:10:33 * haeffb wonders if chuqui has a performance measure that requires he login to #webos twice a day Oct 13 00:10:52 "it's in the job description" Oct 13 00:11:32 haha Oct 13 00:11:47 he's giving us all the silent treatment Oct 13 00:12:11 alexfner! Oct 13 00:12:24 yes?!? Oct 13 00:12:32 why did you do that? Oct 13 00:12:38 why?! Oct 13 00:12:59 to fight the establishment Oct 13 00:13:07 okay, that's fine, then Oct 13 00:13:56 so, where can I find current episodes of "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia"? Oct 13 00:14:09 Dish/Fox dispute has left me hanging Oct 13 00:14:40 my wife just told me something about that and that aggies fans are pissed because of y'all's game this weekend Oct 13 00:14:42 in Dennis' mom's house Oct 13 00:15:10 she also said one of the local radio guys called you guys paper tigers, for real Oct 13 00:15:15 I hop you kick that aggie ass Oct 13 00:15:20 s/hop/hope/ Oct 13 00:17:18 Fox has pulled FX, NatGeo and all FSN regionals from Dish Network while they are in contract negotiations/dispute Oct 13 00:17:37 and MU-aTm is on FSN. Oct 13 00:17:43 so, yeah. Oct 13 00:17:54 become friends with someone who owns a slingbox? Oct 13 00:18:23 ah, good news for the game Oct 13 00:18:47 no bad news Oct 13 00:18:58 this is why I had to stop watching Chuck and Heroes because our local affiliate lost the broadcast for 3 weeks or so right after season 2 started Oct 13 00:19:07 it won't be on at my house Oct 13 00:19:11 oh, I see...bad news Oct 13 00:19:13 :( Oct 13 00:19:17 sadPanda Oct 13 00:19:37 but s'OK cuz I won't be home anyhow Oct 13 00:19:38 you can pretend it's the 40s and listen on the radio Oct 13 00:19:47 only if the radio is in HD Oct 13 00:20:05 AM Oct 13 00:20:27 going to the "Rotary Club ShrimpFest" saturday night. All you can eat shrimp & prime rib. And beer. Oct 13 00:20:34 all you can eat beer. Oct 13 00:20:45 that sounds....scary Oct 13 00:22:19 * sugardave fears beer you have to chew. Oct 13 00:23:03 you wanna see scary... http://shelbyvillemoonshiners.com/index.html Oct 13 00:23:37 hi all! Oct 13 00:23:55 I should make them a website... for two free tickets. Oct 13 00:23:56 hey JenP Oct 13 00:24:02 haeffb: you should! Oct 13 00:24:04 hi guys! Oct 13 00:24:08 hi JenP Oct 13 00:24:22 that's an ALL DAY all you can eat and drink party Oct 13 00:24:28 wow, that website should be on geocities Oct 13 00:24:29 so the phones they were giving to devs are at&t pre-plus's Oct 13 00:24:44 I think you can choose Oct 13 00:24:48 'while it lasts' Oct 13 00:25:04 It lasts. Oct 13 00:25:04 oh i didn't choose they just sent the at&t one Oct 13 00:25:09 it's the 'while it lasts' that worries me :p Oct 13 00:25:27 They buy something like $25,000 worth of alcohol. Oct 13 00:25:32 JenP: hmm... FedEx or UPS? Oct 13 00:25:43 shrimp might run out, booze never does. Oct 13 00:25:45 UPS...gotta sign for it Oct 13 00:26:15 is an AT&T Pre Plus a bad thing? it's GSM with a SIM card, right? Oct 13 00:26:33 * sugardave knows surprisingly little about cell phone tech. Oct 13 00:26:38 yes, but it'd be locked to ATT Oct 13 00:26:41 no not a bad thing at all...they were giving away verizon ones at the dev conf Oct 13 00:26:45 so without unlocking it, you're still stuck to ATT Oct 13 00:26:47 oh I see Oct 13 00:26:59 meh...wifi works great Oct 13 00:27:14 not that it matters much, your only other option for GSM in the states would be T-mobile and you'd lose 3G on it and only get EDGE data Oct 13 00:27:23 btw, is there a cheap way to unlock those things? Oct 13 00:27:35 sim unlock the GSM Pre Oct 13 00:27:35 depends on the phone, don't know about the Pre Oct 13 00:28:26 yup sim card Oct 13 00:29:01 If this doesn't say "good times" I don't know what would... http://shelbyvillemoonshiners.com/Images/PhotoGallery/pages/DSC00048_JPG.htm Oct 13 00:29:16 so, if you had an unlocked GSM Pre, could you use it in, say, London when you go there and they sell those SIMs to tourists? Oct 13 00:29:27 haeffb: those cups look empty. Oct 13 00:29:30 because I know my CDMA one can't do it Oct 13 00:29:43 master chefs: http://shelbyvillemoonshiners.com/Images/PhotoGallery/pages/DSC00040_JPG.htm Oct 13 00:30:09 dohtem: the cups should be empty, means you already drank the beer Oct 13 00:30:18 no point in keeping around a full cup! Oct 13 00:30:20 sugardave: yeah. Oct 13 00:30:23 that guy on the left drank so much he's about to supernova Oct 13 00:30:53 sugardave: yeah, you could, assuming that the frequencies matched up Oct 13 00:30:57 dohtem: cool, I really hop I get one now Oct 13 00:31:06 I don't know if they do or not Oct 13 00:31:25 well, if I get one and I get sent to London again, I'll let you know Oct 13 00:31:34 maybe when I go to Chile Oct 13 00:31:37 huh..so how do you use the phone w/o a sim card? won't let me get past that screen Oct 13 00:31:48 I have used a few unlocked phones overseas. Get a local sim for cheap local calls and toss it when I get back to the US Oct 13 00:31:48 JenP: metadoctor? Oct 13 00:32:21 shrimp cooking: perfected! http://shelbyvillemoonshiners.com/Images/PhotoGallery/pages/DSC00039_JPG.htm Oct 13 00:32:30 ?hmmm.. Oct 13 00:33:17 I can put away some shrimp, now Oct 13 00:33:46 JenP: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:MetaDoctor Oct 13 00:34:12 thanks SineOt Oct 13 00:34:41 i used metadoctor on my pixi, sucks i cant OTA update to 1.4.5 or use app catalog tho Oct 13 00:35:53 yeah, app catalog requires the device to be activated at least once I think Oct 13 00:36:22 ill have to ask at work if anyone has an old sim card they aint using Oct 13 00:36:30 http://shelbyvillemoonshiners.com/shelbyvillemoonshiners2009/moonshiners/Shrimpboil2007/photos/photo31.html Oct 13 00:36:56 gotta love the path to that photo Oct 13 00:37:18 depending on how much you want to spend, you could also get an ATT goPhone and use the SIM from that, or, at worst, just go to a corp ATT store and ask if they can activate your "developer phone" with an old sim or something Oct 13 00:37:54 true Oct 13 00:38:19 (don't know if activating it requires data, if it does you might not be able to get by with a goPhone) Oct 13 00:40:06 dawm_: you can get a prepaid sim and like 5 minutes from AT&T for really cheap. Oct 13 00:41:04 looks like $4.95 from amazon heh Oct 13 00:42:05 or less on ebay Oct 13 00:42:45 is Caprica worth watching? Oct 13 00:43:17 0.99+2.68 = 3.67 on ebay for a unused sim Oct 13 00:43:35 or walk into a any ATT store Oct 13 00:43:59 yah ill have to update to 1.4.5 and try that this weekend Oct 13 00:49:22 yeah i liked Caprica Oct 13 00:55:24 new season starts tonight? Oct 13 00:55:36 in 8 minutes Oct 13 00:59:48 it started last week no? Oct 13 01:00:01 at least an episode popped up for me Oct 13 01:00:07 last week i've got it on dvr Oct 13 01:01:15 hey JenP =) Oct 13 01:01:26 hi Nyceane Oct 13 01:01:44 havn't seen you for a while, your name looks hotter in IRC channel ;) Oct 13 01:01:54 LOL Oct 13 01:02:16 ha, made you laugh Oct 13 01:02:45 i m sure you become hotter in person as well =) Oct 13 01:03:06 practically spontaneously combusting Oct 13 01:03:09 uh huh...you say that to all the nicks you think really are women Oct 13 01:03:15 hahaha Oct 13 01:03:17 * jhojho leaves Oct 13 01:03:31 lol Oct 13 01:04:01 yes, but to you I actually meant it =) Oct 13 01:04:39 lol Oct 13 01:05:51 how is san diego? Oct 13 01:07:12 nice and sunny. Oct 13 01:07:24 nice. dark here. Oct 13 01:07:26 just like your smile :) Oct 13 01:07:37 LA is somewhat too hot at the moment Oct 13 01:08:13 really? weather's been kinda crazy lately. one week over 100 the next barely 60 Oct 13 01:08:41 yes, just like a girl's mood Oct 13 01:09:07 always unpredictable Oct 13 01:09:07 uh huh you're probably bi-polar yourself Oct 13 01:09:24 yes, only on fridays Oct 13 01:10:46 So what are you guys working on? Oct 13 01:11:07 mostly how to use lame jokes to impress JenP Oct 13 01:11:09 Real Time Oct 13 01:11:19 other than that, I worked on this food app Oct 13 01:11:44 and here I was thinking I had seen awkward ;P Oct 13 01:11:57 trying to mesh moo.fx with mojo! it's a failing battle Oct 13 01:12:04 lol Oct 13 01:12:10 yeah that is a bad idea Oct 13 01:12:20 your best bet is css transitions Oct 13 01:12:25 and mojo.animation Oct 13 01:12:43 it works! except it barfs on class.create() which by all accounts should work fine Oct 13 01:14:16 Prototype's class.create? Oct 13 01:15:22 moo.fx is designed to piggy back on Prototype, and calls... let me get the line Oct 13 01:15:53 Fx.Style = Class.create(); Oct 13 01:15:59 which throws an exception when run on device Oct 13 01:16:51 * haeffb working on watching Boardwalk Empire. And working on a Sam Adams. And waiting for my pizza to arrive. Oct 13 01:21:43 * CTLAdvance is pissed that they made duke nukem look like a young punk, but hey its still 2 girls one duke. http://www.dukenukem.com//img/access/access_bg.jpg Oct 13 01:21:54 Good evening everyone Oct 13 01:22:12 Hi CTLAdvance Oct 13 01:22:41 Hey JenP Oct 13 01:25:45 alright guys, I just got off work and about to head home =) Oct 13 01:25:58 I just turned in my resignation letter today so I feel really good lol Oct 13 01:26:03 kk drive home safe...be nice to the people on the road... Oct 13 01:26:15 remember you never know who's packing... Oct 13 01:26:35 well, if you invite me over to SD I'll be packing right away =) Oct 13 01:26:48 lol Oct 13 01:28:12 Where you leaving from Nyceane Oct 13 01:28:20 then you'd finally be free to enjoy the presence that you've always waited for =) Oct 13 01:28:21 aaaaah Oct 13 01:28:23 LA Oct 13 01:28:41 part of new job is develop for WebOS =) Oct 13 01:28:54 what's the other part? Oct 13 01:29:33 to find out what JenP is into and nail it =) Oct 13 01:30:03 lol ahhh i haven't had a stalker in so long.... Oct 13 01:30:41 I'm so sorry for you JenP :c Oct 13 01:30:52 me too ;) Oct 13 01:31:13 ;-) Oct 13 01:31:37 night guys, c u guys tomorrow Oct 13 01:32:02 byes! Oct 13 01:56:43 lol, rahul just showed his displeasure with new pre: http://twitter.com/#!/rahulsood/status/27196490180 Oct 13 01:57:21 at least that kind of confirms (i think?) that it's a pre-HP device Oct 13 01:57:52 yeah Oct 13 01:59:08 such a waste of resources Oct 13 01:59:19 new pre will fail so bad Oct 13 01:59:58 now noe Oct 13 02:00:00 now Oct 13 02:00:03 temper that pessimism Oct 13 02:00:12 * Tibfib is excited for pre2 Oct 13 02:00:17 it's a phone Oct 13 02:00:22 it's faster than the old one Oct 13 02:00:25 it's not everything Oct 13 02:00:35 but it's a step in the right direction Oct 13 02:01:35 step in wrong direction imo. right direction is increasing users. Oct 13 02:01:36 I think that if the Pre2 is what Palm can come up with without HP's input or resources, then what Palm can do WITH those resources and input should be something to watch out for Oct 13 02:02:16 so many users went over to android. wouldn't get them back wih the pre2 Oct 13 02:04:36 hm, fiddling with some 2D CSS transforms: does webOS hardware accelerate some of them? Oct 13 02:09:20 agreed pre 2 is bad, its a stopgap. Oct 13 02:09:49 i doubt anyone who is not a fanboy would buy iy over an evo/epic Oct 13 02:11:06 SineOt: that is not abundantly clear to any of us if that is the case Oct 13 02:11:25 okay Oct 13 02:11:32 SineOT : No not that I am aware of Oct 13 02:11:44 I mean the cpu process them :) Oct 13 02:11:57 mostly curious, because using the CSS3 transform instead of adjusting padding on this demo seems to run smoother on my Pixi Oct 13 02:11:58 But its not passed to the GPU yet unless this has changed Oct 13 02:12:10 interesting Oct 13 02:13:19 http://css3.bradshawenterprises.com/#sliding these sliding demos are the ones I was looking at. First example just adjusts padding, second adds in -webkit-transform Oct 13 02:22:35 wow they are sending a medic down to the miners Oct 13 02:24:28 ok time to test the app... need to drive around, be back in a bit Oct 13 02:50:09 $L("YO YO YO"); Oct 13 02:50:27 hi Bmyers Oct 13 02:50:36 hi JenP Oct 13 02:50:47 what about it? Oct 13 02:51:13 did i miss anything good? Oct 13 02:51:26 besides the fire? nope Oct 13 02:52:24 was gone resueing wifie Oct 13 02:52:40 rescue **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 13 02:59:57 2010