**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 13 02:59:57 2010
Oct 13 03:07:26 <CTLAdvance> wahoo my app is working
Oct 13 03:07:30 <CTLAdvance> oy
Oct 13 03:13:36 <CTLAdvance> And the first miner made it out of the hole
Oct 13 03:14:27 <dohtem> we should have played a joke on the miners... like, aliens have take over since you guys have been trapped
Oct 13 03:14:28 <alexfner> wow your app rescues miners?
Oct 13 03:14:33 <alexfner> crap that's an awesome app
Oct 13 03:15:02 <CTLAdvance> Yeah dude, its just like tetris, only I remove blocks instead of place them
Oct 13 03:15:28 <SineOt> it's pretty easy because they're all the tall straight ones
Oct 13 03:15:35 <SineOt> none of those wonky Z shape ones
Oct 13 03:15:49 <CTLAdvance> well yes, but I have a nuke button for those shapes
Oct 13 03:16:07 <CTLAdvance> it deploys 1 stick tnt
Oct 13 03:20:49 <CTLAdvance> The fact that we can get them out of the mine is awesome
Oct 13 03:22:47 <Loudergood> more like jenga
Oct 13 03:23:10 <Loudergood> buy yes it's pretty awesome that they could survive down there that long too
Oct 13 03:24:04 <radiofreejohn> yeah they are gonna have some serious PTSD counseling after this, though
Oct 13 03:24:33 <radiofreejohn> being trapped 700 feet? down for a few months is bad enough but the first few days/weeks where they had no idea if they would survive long enough to be rescued must have been hell
Oct 13 03:24:51 <CTLAdvance> more than 700 feet
Oct 13 03:24:59 <radiofreejohn> 700 meters, then, right
Oct 13 03:25:07 <CTLAdvance> .5 miles yeah
Oct 13 03:25:08 <radiofreejohn> still, either one is insanity
Oct 13 03:25:20 <CTLAdvance> I know it
Oct 13 03:25:28 <CTLAdvance> I guess its over 90f down there
Oct 13 03:30:59 <sugardave> SineOt: as far as I know there is no hardware acceleration happening for css stuff
Oct 13 03:33:17 <SineOt> hmm, okay
Oct 13 03:33:32 <SineOt> I'll just chalk it up to being webkit being more tuned performance wise towards, well, it's own tags
Oct 13 03:33:52 <sugardave> that is probably true
Oct 13 03:34:48 <SineOt> (the day gecko dies and webkit takes the crown will be an awesome day for the web c_c )
Oct 13 03:36:06 <sugardave> gecko is the moz/ff engine?
Oct 13 03:36:15 * sugardave is a horrible web dev.
Oct 13 03:36:40 * CTLAdvance thinks tritan was the best ever
Oct 13 03:36:47 * CTLAdvance was just kidding
Oct 13 03:37:08 <sugardave> I don't even know what that means...it was probabaly the OS/2 web browser :D
Oct 13 03:37:27 <SineOt> sugardave: yes
Oct 13 03:37:28 <CTLAdvance> Tritan is what powers IE8
Oct 13 03:37:33 <sugardave> ah
Oct 13 03:37:48 <SineOt> it's a terrible piece of crap
Oct 13 03:37:52 <SineOt> gecko is
Oct 13 03:37:59 <CTLAdvance> Actually its quite good for IE4
Oct 13 03:38:03 <CTLAdvance> or HTML4
Oct 13 03:38:11 <CTLAdvance> HTML5/CSS3 is not supported
Oct 13 03:38:21 <CTLAdvance> oh
Oct 13 03:38:25 <CTLAdvance> I meant tritan
Oct 13 03:39:16 <CTLAdvance> I am hoping the next IE9 beta brings the final layer of HTML5 Support
Oct 13 03:39:29 <CTLAdvance> Chakra is gearing up to be quite good
Oct 13 04:00:24 <SineOt> 3D CSS transforms are nuts
Oct 13 04:07:32 <dkarapet> anyone know how to listen to orientation changes from within ares
Oct 13 04:12:08 <CTLAdvance> Miner 2 is out of the hole
Oct 13 04:12:27 <radiofreejohn> cool
Oct 13 04:12:43 <SineOt> 2/33 achievements unlocked!
Oct 13 04:12:51 <CTLAdvance> 33+2
Oct 13 04:12:59 <CTLAdvance> 2 rescuers are in the hole now
Oct 13 04:13:13 <CTLAdvance> so they need to recue 33 people
Oct 13 04:13:14 <SineOt> those are the secret achievements
Oct 13 04:13:15 <CTLAdvance> :)
Oct 13 04:13:24 <CTLAdvance> ah I dont remember coding them in
Oct 13 04:13:27 <CTLAdvance> very nice
Oct 13 04:13:39 <SineOt> of course you don't, that's why they're secret ;D
Oct 13 04:15:57 <dkarapet> anyone know how to listen to orientation changes from within ares
Oct 13 04:17:11 <CTLAdvance> well I can code it, but not in ares. Can you add a generic listener in ares?
Oct 13 04:17:17 <CTLAdvance> that you can code
Oct 13 04:17:18 <CTLAdvance> ?
Oct 13 04:17:34 <SineOt> pretty sure you can
Oct 13 04:17:45 <sugardave> you just have to add a prototype function in regular mojo
Oct 13 04:17:49 <sugardave> no need to listen at all
Oct 13 04:17:53 <CTLAdvance> oh
Oct 13 04:17:57 <sugardave> .orientationChanged
Oct 13 04:18:01 <CTLAdvance> is that so?
Oct 13 04:18:03 <sugardave> yep
Oct 13 04:18:13 <sugardave> and enable it in the window object
Oct 13 04:18:20 <CTLAdvance> ah yes
Oct 13 04:18:48 <sugardave> it's either orientationChanged or orientationChange, I can't remember
Oct 13 04:18:57 <sugardave> it's also better than listening
Oct 13 04:20:07 <sugardave> interesting bug in my app
Oct 13 04:20:34 <sugardave> I do a lot of (well 6) convertDate calls to display these times in different cities from different timezones
Oct 13 04:20:44 <sugardave> and it's pretty cool and all
Oct 13 04:20:55 <sugardave> and in my header I have the current local time and it updates every second
Oct 13 04:21:05 <sugardave> shows the timezone, etc.
Oct 13 04:21:13 <sugardave> so, it'
Oct 13 04:21:30 <sugardave> s working....and then I look up at some point and notice my timezone says GMT
Oct 13 04:21:46 <sugardave> and I think "that's strange, because I don't change the tz anymore"
Oct 13 04:22:02 <SineOt> sugardave: I don't know how much of it is using standard mojo stuff that would be adjusted, but... you should totally have it use Palm-dark at night and regular during the day :o
Oct 13 04:22:07 <sugardave> so, I change it back, test some more, things are fine...
Oct 13 04:22:22 <sugardave> and then I notice it at GMT again....
Oct 13 04:22:24 <sugardave> it's like, wth?
Oct 13 04:22:37 <sugardave> so, I finally figured out when it happens, just not why it happens
Oct 13 04:22:50 <sugardave> it only happens if I re-package and launch the app that's already running
Oct 13 04:23:13 <SineOt> that is weird
Oct 13 04:23:36 <sugardave> SineOt: I have strict instructions for no glitz, but switch to dark theme based on the local time might be okay
Oct 13 04:23:54 <halfhalo> this for rodtime?
Oct 13 04:23:58 <sugardave> yah
Oct 13 04:24:07 <SineOt> I'd say that it's hardly glitz if done well (and switching between the two themes isn't too glitzy)
Oct 13 04:24:20 <SineOt> it's just an effect I love in the stock OSX world clock widget
Oct 13 04:24:29 <sugardave> I was envisioning light them for daytime cities and dark theme for night time cities
Oct 13 04:24:33 <sugardave> but it would look weird
Oct 13 04:24:41 <SineOt> the clock face changes to black from white after sunset and back again at dawn
Oct 13 04:25:04 <sugardave> I was actually thinking of using dark theme in warp mode
Oct 13 04:26:52 <SineOt> although, having not seen the app, I don't know if switching between dark/light would be too "glitz"
Oct 13 04:27:31 <SineOt> heh, where are people when you need them. I've got my Pixi idling at 2C over ambient
Oct 13 04:43:42 <JenP> warp mode?
Oct 13 04:44:16 <JenP> oh sugardave you're still working on the rods app. how's it coming along?
Oct 13 04:44:52 <sugardave> Pretty good, I've solved the main time display problems...but now this weird shit is happening
Oct 13 04:45:10 <SineOt> is it actually changing the time zone?
Oct 13 04:45:13 <JenP> like what? weird display? weird programming?
Oct 13 04:46:14 <sugardave> SineOt: as far as I can tell, no...when the app starts I save off the current tz, and I just added in an instant call to set it back (and dump it out to look at it), so it is still the correct tz, but setting it back does not clear the GMT from my time display
Oct 13 04:46:43 <sugardave> but SOMEtimes...when you go into the date/time app, it will say "US/Chicago (GMT)"
Oct 13 04:46:57 <sugardave> and that is no good
Oct 13 04:47:00 <SineOt> c_c
Oct 13 04:47:04 <SineOt> yeah that's one hell of a bug
Oct 13 04:47:14 <SineOt> since last I checked Chicago wasn't GMT
Oct 13 04:47:36 <sugardave> JenP: it's doing REALLY weird things, but only if I re-package the app in eclipse and launch it while it's running
Oct 13 04:47:55 <SineOt> really makes me wonder why some of this stuff you're using even got written in the first place if Palm never uses it anywhere and considers it to be a private API
Oct 13 04:47:58 <JenP> so eclipse is messing with it?
Oct 13 04:48:15 <sugardave> JenP: I think it's the convertDate system service method
Oct 13 04:48:23 <SineOt> maybe they had an intern who couldn't code write it as a time waster project? lol
Oct 13 04:48:29 <JenP> lol
Oct 13 04:48:31 <sugardave> heh
Oct 13 04:48:53 <SineOt> "here go write this and leave me alone"
Oct 13 04:49:04 <sugardave> well, all I know it's the ONLY sane way to try and do this dst stuff properly
Oct 13 04:49:11 <sugardave> the insane way is worse
Oct 13 04:49:25 <SineOt> why does DST still exist, anyways
Oct 13 04:49:58 <sugardave> SineOt: I think it will always be here
Oct 13 04:50:01 <sugardave> hi dkirker
Oct 13 04:51:01 <dkirker> hi sugardave
Oct 13 04:51:06 <sugardave> SineOt: I'm not even sure they could call it a private API
Oct 13 04:51:20 <sugardave> it's part of the system service
Oct 13 04:51:21 <SineOt> long lost forgotten API?
Oct 13 04:51:43 <sugardave> but I"m not familiar with all they consider verboten
Oct 13 04:51:59 <SineOt> "the API time (and debugging) forgot... brought back from the dead for rodtime!" *dramatic music*
Oct 13 04:52:16 <sugardave> apparently I'm the only person to ever use it in an app :D
Oct 13 04:52:55 <sugardave> or at least the only to complain about it
Oct 13 04:53:15 <SineOt> given how terribly broken it is?
Oct 13 04:53:21 <SineOt> you're probably the first to try to use it
Oct 13 04:53:55 <sugardave> I'm pretty good at breaking/finding broken things
Oct 13 04:54:04 <sugardave> it's a gift....and a curse
Oct 13 04:54:40 <SineOt> I can't imagine anyone trying to use it, seeing how broken it was, and NOT bring it up somewhere
Oct 13 04:56:00 <SineOt> then again you look at Ares and some of the stuff still not having any "Help" or a description beyond like, "it's a thing!" ...
Oct 13 04:57:15 <sugardave> haha, yeah I feel for the Ares people, the docs are even more non-existant there
Oct 13 04:57:44 <SineOt> they have a widget for showing just ONE image
Oct 13 04:57:47 <SineOt> no documentation
Oct 13 04:57:59 <SineOt> doesn't take any of the same commands/methods/whatever as the imageView widget
Oct 13 04:59:23 <SineOt> it's like, cool that'd be nice to use... if it'd work
Oct 13 05:00:06 <sugardave> do you know how to inspect it to see what methods there are for it?
Oct 13 05:00:30 <SineOt> no, but I kind of have given up on Ares for the time being and just using TextWrangler for now
Oct 13 05:00:42 <sugardave> ah, straight up mojo?
Oct 13 05:00:50 <sugardave> I'm a big fan
Oct 13 05:01:18 <SineOt> straight up mojo at least has some documentation behind it :I
Oct 13 05:02:29 <radiofreejohn> not to mention the source is pretty readable when the documentation fails
Oct 13 05:03:57 <SineOt> yeah, it is
Oct 13 05:06:03 <SineOt> one thing I do miss from Ares is the one button bundle, launch, and debug/log viewer aspect of it
Oct 13 05:07:26 <sugardave> SineOt: here are some simple debug methods I use, debugObject is handy: http://webos.pastebin.com/FM5cdU9d
Oct 13 05:07:49 <sugardave> one property per line in the log
Oct 13 05:07:56 <sugardave> it only does one level
Oct 13 05:08:19 <sugardave> but you can use it to find the properties and methods of that widget you were talking about if you wanted to see what makes it tick
Oct 13 05:16:45 <SineOt> hm, you'd have to walk me through that aspect of it, sugardave. I'm still fairly new to Javascript
Oct 13 05:17:38 <sugardave> okay, that's no problem, basically you would copy that file to somewhere under your app directory
Oct 13 05:17:44 <sugardave> and then add it in sources.json
Oct 13 05:17:50 <SineOt> figured that much, and that too :)
Oct 13 05:17:55 <sugardave> okay :D
Oct 13 05:18:01 <SineOt> the feeding it the image widget aspect is what has me scratching my head!
Oct 13 05:18:02 <sugardave> hang on a second
Oct 13 05:19:41 <sugardave> do you know how to look at the log?
Oct 13 05:19:52 <sugardave> like via novaterm or perhaps the ares logger will work
Oct 13 05:20:32 <SineOt> yes, of course~
Oct 13 05:20:46 <sugardave> SineOt: basically, in your scene controller somewhere (activate would work) you would do something like: debugObject(this.controller.get(widgetId));
Oct 13 05:20:47 <SineOt> used it a ton to find all the dumb (seriously, I've done some REALLY dumb) stuff that I do
Oct 13 05:21:09 <sugardave> or whatever the ares way is to "get" a dom element
Oct 13 05:21:22 <SineOt> that way, basically
Oct 13 05:21:31 <SineOt> Ares isn't too different, it just kind of abstracts the mojo away from you a bit
Oct 13 05:21:33 <sugardave> or you could do: var test = this.controller...; debugObject(test);
Oct 13 05:21:43 <sugardave> whatever you like, basically
Oct 13 05:21:53 <JenP> nite guys...i'll talk to you tomorrow
Oct 13 05:21:56 <sugardave> and it will print out a BUNCH of stuff for a dom element, which is what a widget is
Oct 13 05:21:59 <sugardave> nite JenP
Oct 13 05:22:21 <sugardave> and you can scroll through and see the properties and their values, or the function names, etc.
Oct 13 05:22:32 <sugardave> of special interest is anything in mojo
Oct 13 05:22:43 <sugardave> so then you can do debugObject(test.mojo);
Oct 13 05:22:49 <sugardave> and see what's in there
Oct 13 05:23:15 <sugardave> basically anything that is an object, you can throw into debugObject and it will flood the log with the properties/methods :D
Oct 13 05:23:58 <sugardave> it's good for seeing what is in the event object in listeners, etc.
Oct 13 05:24:04 <sugardave> I use the hell out of it during dev
Oct 13 05:24:30 <SineOt> Yeah, I can imagine
Oct 13 05:24:35 <SineOt> it sounds really useful
Oct 13 05:25:08 <sugardave> simple but effective, I hear the ares debugger is good, but I can't make it run on my system
Oct 13 05:25:15 <sugardave> so I can't comment on it
Oct 13 05:25:26 <SineOt> it's alright, sometimes it does WEIRD stuff
Oct 13 05:26:01 <SineOt> like sometimes it'll actually hit a breakpoint and break properly, other times it's just just "derp derp derp" and ignores it no matter how many breakpoints you set and where in the code
Oct 13 05:26:18 <sugardave> heh
Oct 13 05:26:29 <sugardave> that's fun
Oct 13 05:26:53 <SineOt> I've done stuff like set a var, add to the var and set this step as the break point, then have it write the value to a div
Oct 13 05:27:02 <SineOt> and it'll write the correct value to a div, but never trip the breakpoint
Oct 13 05:27:53 <sugardave> it's like regular debugging :D
Oct 13 05:36:57 <sugardave> hmm, narrowing this down a bit, it isn't convertDate's fault
Oct 13 05:37:24 <sugardave> that leaves getTimeZone, or getTimeZoneValues
Oct 13 05:37:41 <sugardave> and THOSE, my friends, are legal because they are in the date/time app
Oct 13 05:37:53 <swisstomcat> morning
Oct 13 05:37:58 <SineOt> Does anyone use palm-run?
Oct 13 05:38:17 <sugardave> I haven't, I usually use palm-launch
Oct 13 05:38:43 <SineOt> I'm interested in it just for the fact that it bundles, launches, and does all that gross stuff for me in one step :p
Oct 13 05:38:55 <swisstomcat> i use the komodo edit plugin
Oct 13 05:39:45 <SineOt> I'm using TextWrangler right now, since it's, well... Free. P:
Oct 13 05:45:50 <SineOt> yay, palm-run well, runs
Oct 13 05:46:03 <sugardave> oh wait, I was wrong...convertDate is the likely culprit again
Oct 13 05:46:05 <sugardave> dammit
Oct 13 05:46:20 <sugardave> SineOt: Komodo Edit is also free
Oct 13 05:47:05 <SineOt> Oh, I got the two confused. I was looking at Komodo IDE, which is 295$.
Oct 13 05:47:41 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 13 05:47:46 <swisstomcat> edit is free
Oct 13 05:52:29 <sugardave> arg, this is crazy
Oct 13 05:53:02 <sugardave> while the phone shows tz as Chicago/GMT, javascript correctly reports Chicago/CDT...
Oct 13 05:53:05 <sugardave> w
Oct 13 05:53:08 <sugardave> t
Oct 13 05:53:10 <sugardave> f
Oct 13 06:18:04 <alexfner> swisstomcat: hah I see that you retweeted brian leroux's "PhoneGap FULLY supports ALL native UI, sys calls. Support in an app comes at the cost of xplatform maintenance. The web: it won."
Oct 13 06:18:17 <alexfner> but I would argue that what he's saying is somewhat disingenuous
Oct 13 06:18:31 <swisstomcat> depends what you call "native"
Oct 13 06:19:44 <alexfner> well I'll give you an example of where this came from
Oct 13 06:19:56 <alexfner> I mentioned that I thought titanium > phonegap
Oct 13 06:20:12 <alexfner> and he tweeted me asking how?  what needed to be improved in phonegap
Oct 13 06:20:50 <alexfner> and I was like well, I can't get access to native UI elements and non-traditional browser APIs like tcp connections
Oct 13 06:21:05 <alexfner> and he responded with plugins
Oct 13 06:21:20 <alexfner> but that really doesn't fill the void
Oct 13 06:21:48 <alexfner> because for a developer to have to maintain and update plugins for different platforms they mind as well just write in the native language of the platform
Oct 13 06:21:58 <alexfner> or they could just go to titanium
Oct 13 06:22:04 <alexfner> thoughts?
Oct 13 06:24:48 <swisstomcat> i had problems "getting" phonegap first
Oct 13 06:25:14 <swisstomcat> it's not a complete solution like titanium
Oct 13 06:25:22 <swisstomcat> it doesn't solve the GUI problem
Oct 13 06:25:27 <swisstomcat> i see it more as a HAL
Oct 13 06:25:32 <swisstomcat> hardware abstraction layer
Oct 13 06:25:40 <oil> like a retro encabulator
Oct 13 06:25:43 <SineOt> having not used either
Oct 13 06:25:53 <SineOt> I think phonegap at least gets some bonus points for supporting more platforms
Oct 13 06:26:41 <swisstomcat> device sensors and data is what is solved by phonegap
Oct 13 06:26:53 <swisstomcat> but of course the gui part is a huge part left out
Oct 13 06:26:55 <alexfner> yeah but there are a number of APIs that I can't access with phonegap
Oct 13 06:26:57 <swisstomcat> how do you solve that
Oct 13 06:27:00 <swisstomcat> like?
Oct 13 06:27:11 <alexfner> sockets?
Oct 13 06:27:22 <swisstomcat> socket.io
Oct 13 06:27:53 <alexfner> socket.io?
Oct 13 06:28:07 <swisstomcat> http://socket.io/
Oct 13 06:28:18 <swisstomcat> it runs on webOS too
Oct 13 06:28:36 <alexfner> this isn't actually a socket though
Oct 13 06:28:47 <alexfner> it just substitutes ajax long polling where websockets aren't available
Oct 13 06:29:21 <swisstomcat> next example?
Oct 13 06:29:47 <alexfner> push notifications for android/iOS?
Oct 13 06:30:16 <swisstomcat> like mojo messaging you mean?
Oct 13 06:30:22 <swisstomcat> (not that that is available)
Oct 13 06:30:31 <alexfner> yes
Oct 13 06:31:39 <swisstomcat> not supported i see
Oct 13 06:32:59 <alexfner> ye so that and sockets
Oct 13 06:33:05 <alexfner> along with orientation change
Oct 13 06:33:11 <alexfner> which  is not supported in android
Oct 13 06:33:17 <alexfner> and I want to support phonegap
Oct 13 06:33:26 <alexfner> but what am I supposed to do when titanium looks like a better solution?
Oct 13 06:34:07 <alexfner> and titanium will run natively
Oct 13 06:34:16 <alexfner> so it should, in theory, be more responsive
Oct 13 06:34:28 <alexfner> and it has access to things like bonjour
Oct 13 06:35:23 <swisstomcat> titanium is ios and android
Oct 13 06:35:55 <swisstomcat> i'm still trying to solve the GUI problem  .... with phonegap as the HAL
Oct 13 06:36:01 <swisstomcat> looking at jo and unify
Oct 13 06:36:02 <alexfner> this is true
Oct 13 06:36:04 <alexfner> heh
Oct 13 06:36:23 <swisstomcat> jo has a webos.css
Oct 13 06:36:31 <alexfner> I have seen jo
Oct 13 06:36:34 <alexfner> it's not that
Oct 13 06:36:34 <swisstomcat> unify needs the webos styling
Oct 13 06:36:46 <swisstomcat> but i see where you are going
Oct 13 06:36:49 <alexfner> the project that I am working on, as part of a course, is only android and iOS
Oct 13 06:37:04 <alexfner> and they don't intend to target webOS
Oct 13 06:37:07 <swisstomcat> titanium for example is a whole package
Oct 13 06:37:13 <swisstomcat> end-to-end
Oct 13 06:37:18 <alexfner> mm...hmm
Oct 13 06:37:21 <rwhitby> so, I cannot see a way to update your small (48x48) icon in the app catalog when uploading a new version of the app.
Oct 13 06:37:25 <swisstomcat> phonegap and other libraries are just one building block
Oct 13 06:37:40 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: you can't? let me check
Oct 13 06:38:28 <alexfner> I guess my impression is that phonegap is kind of a way to feel really good, like you're offering the only cross-platform implementation
Oct 13 06:38:47 <alexfner> but in reality, it doesn't allow you to access many of the features that make platforms interesting
Oct 13 06:39:02 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: you're going the full update way i assume? new ipk
Oct 13 06:39:39 <alexfner> and mobile applications shouldn't be direct translations of web applications simply to a smaller form factor
Oct 13 06:40:53 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: ye
Oct 13 06:43:21 <swisstomcat> alexfner: i agree that mobile apps shouldn't be just small web apps
Oct 13 06:43:35 <swisstomcat> alexfner: phonegap is only one building block of your solution
Oct 13 06:43:55 <swisstomcat> rwhtiby: hmm, i see it too .. seems strange
Oct 13 06:44:05 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: hmm, i see it too .. seems strange
Oct 13 06:45:25 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: that means you'll have a new app icon on the phone but the old one in the catalog .. doesn't make sense
Oct 13 06:49:50 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: i've sent the new small-icon to Lisa to see if she can do anything with it.
Oct 13 06:53:58 <summatusmentis> attempted to perform surgery on my pre suspend button, didn't end up making any fixes
Oct 13 06:54:03 <summatusmentis> I think I swapped out the wrong part
Oct 13 07:12:29 <swisstomcat> alexfner: someone asked if you could use mojo outside of webos .. it would be cool to do that but would probably look strange without a restyling (css)
Oct 13 07:13:58 <alexfner> not to mention that is copyright to palm
Oct 13 07:14:07 <alexfner> so the impending legal battle would be epic
Oct 13 07:14:13 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 13 07:14:24 <alexfner> man html images should expose metadata through javascript
Oct 13 07:16:04 <swisstomcat> which x-platform gui library will be the best to use? jo,unify,sencha,jquery mobile,...
Oct 13 07:16:25 <swisstomcat> what role will mojo-core have for webos stuff
Oct 13 07:16:28 <swisstomcat> lots of questions
Oct 13 07:17:29 <alexfner> mojo core is controller without model+ view?
Oct 13 07:17:35 <alexfner> or was that statement completely wrong?
Oct 13 07:20:51 <summatusmentis> not to intrude, but have either of you replaced your suspend button on your pre?
Oct 13 07:21:41 <swisstomcat> alexfner: details are still NDA i think
Oct 13 07:22:05 <swisstomcat> no, haven't done any replacements
Oct 13 07:32:47 <hotdp> Good morning
Oct 13 07:34:11 <swisstomcat> morning hotdp
Oct 13 07:39:38 <hotdp> swisstomcat do you use commandmenu?
Oct 13 07:39:52 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 13 07:40:31 <hotdp> have you used icons?
Oct 13 07:42:23 <swisstomcat> yeah, i had to create my own
Oct 13 07:44:20 <hotdp> Don't you use the icon : "patch" ?
Oct 13 07:49:32 <swisstomcat> which one is that?
Oct 13 07:50:25 <hotdp> Wich what?
Oct 13 07:50:27 <hotdp> Kind of menu?
Oct 13 07:52:16 <swisstomcat> (09:41:59 AM) hotdp: Don't you use the icon : "patch" ?
Oct 13 07:52:40 <hotdp> Let me say it in other words
Oct 13 07:53:00 <hotdp> how can i show a image i have on the bottom?
Oct 13 07:53:04 <hotdp> button
Oct 13 07:59:31 <hotdp> I can not find the documentation? Only by using the std. icons
Oct 13 08:02:01 <swisstomcat> hold on
Oct 13 08:02:54 <swisstomcat> http://pastebin.com/exnXSst1
Oct 13 08:02:55 <hotdp> i will :d
Oct 13 08:03:19 <hotdp> label: "History", icon:'cmd-icon-star'
Oct 13 08:03:22 <hotdp> right?
Oct 13 08:03:45 <swisstomcat> correct
Oct 13 08:04:01 <hotdp> but then it has to be a .ico file?
Oct 13 08:05:59 <swisstomcat> png
Oct 13 08:07:50 <swisstomcat> .cmd-icon-up { background-image: url(../images/menu-icon-up.png); }
Oct 13 08:09:08 <hotdp> ohhh i did not get that
Oct 13 08:09:31 <hotdp> so you point at a css style that contains the image
Oct 13 08:12:13 <swisstomcat> correct
Oct 13 08:12:29 <hotdp> Thanks..
Oct 13 08:12:38 <swisstomcat> cmd-icon-star would be a css-style like i posted for .cmd-icon-up
Oct 13 08:13:01 <hotdp> i get it
Oct 13 08:15:04 <hotdp> But i could not read it anywhere :s
Oct 13 08:15:15 <hotdp> How is the wife about the job oversee?
Oct 13 08:18:08 <swisstomcat> not that thrilled .. she'd prefer SF
Oct 13 08:19:00 <hotdp> i understand
Oct 13 08:19:13 <hotdp> NYC is nice.. but there are so much to see in CA
Oct 13 08:19:18 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 13 08:19:31 <swisstomcat> i used to live in NYC for one year .. studying at SVA
Oct 13 08:19:33 <hotdp> SF was very cold though :s but all the it magic is over there
Oct 13 08:19:38 <swisstomcat> (school of visual arts)
Oct 13 08:19:42 <hotdp> ohh
Oct 13 08:19:50 <hotdp> And you like NYC?
Oct 13 08:19:54 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 13 08:20:05 <swisstomcat> SF is nice too tho
Oct 13 08:20:17 <swisstomcat> and the silicon valley is an amazing place to be
Oct 13 08:22:15 <hotdp> Yer, and there is so much to see in CA different things. Parks, nature ect.
Oct 13 08:22:27 <swisstomcat> true
Oct 13 08:22:50 <swisstomcat> and my sister and mom live up in montana
Oct 13 08:27:29 <hotdp> are you from usa?
Oct 13 08:27:33 <hotdp> or your mom?
Oct 13 08:27:54 <swisstomcat> no
Oct 13 08:28:01 <swisstomcat> we're 100% swiss
Oct 13 08:30:15 <hotdp> so they moved to usa?
Oct 13 08:32:08 <swisstomcat> yeah, like 10 years ago
Oct 13 08:33:25 <hotdp> ohh :)
Oct 13 08:33:42 <hotdp> I would like to work overthere :)
Oct 13 08:33:52 <hotdp> When my twitter network is better
Oct 13 08:37:55 <hotdp> swisstomcat where you going to the event in nyv?
Oct 13 08:37:58 <hotdp> nyc*
Oct 13 08:38:08 <swisstomcat> dev day?
Oct 13 08:38:12 <hotdp> yer
Oct 13 08:39:05 <swisstomcat> i can't :( sprout 2 is supposed to hatch on november 18th
Oct 13 08:39:14 <hotdp> :(
Oct 13 08:39:16 <hotdp> dammit!
Oct 13 08:39:26 <hotdp> I think it would have been good for you job/contacts
Oct 13 08:39:31 <swisstomcat> yeah, too bad
Oct 13 08:39:47 <hotdp> You have to plan better next time ;)
Oct 13 08:42:10 <swisstomcat> hehe
Oct 13 08:42:45 <swisstomcat> no more sprouts planned :)
Oct 13 09:48:09 <mbarvian> anyone interested in beta testing my app?
Oct 13 09:51:37 <warpdesign__> what kind of app ? :=)
Oct 13 09:52:04 <mbarvian> warpdesign_: a weight tracking app :)
Oct 13 09:52:45 <mbarvian> warpdesign_: weighttrackerapp.com :)
Oct 13 09:52:54 <mbarvian> warpdesign_: let me know if you're interested :)
Oct 13 09:55:32 <swisstomcat> bbl
Oct 13 10:03:33 <xota> hi! I've reinstall my Palm Pre with webosdoctor, and after select my language (in the Pre, te process was finished) I turn off my mobile taking the battery because the red button to turn off doesn't work. Now the phone doesn't turn on... it show the palm logo (as turning on) but withou beat
Oct 13 10:50:04 <Schalla> Good Morning all.
Oct 13 10:50:11 <hotdp> morning Schalla
Oct 13 11:13:56 <Schalla> So many patches in Preware...^^
Oct 13 11:15:04 <Schalla> Btw - Is it possible that some hardware get defect  by patches or apps?
Oct 13 11:16:48 <Schalla> anyway?^^
Oct 13 11:18:44 <Schalla> sugardave?
Oct 13 11:21:49 <rwhitby> Schalla: the only items that affect hardware are the overclocking kernels
Oct 13 11:22:41 <Schalla> I don't really wanna overclock a PHONE. ^^ I just have bad memories because 1-2 days after I tried preware patches and so on my phone were defect :X
Oct 13 11:22:44 <Schalla> (Touchscreen)
Oct 13 11:22:55 <Schalla> But I already install a few patches currently on my new one.
Oct 13 13:30:06 <teemu> Bookmarks stopped working.
Oct 13 13:30:35 <hotdp> bookmarks?
Oct 13 13:30:40 <teemu> Yea, for the browser.
Oct 13 13:30:57 <hotdp> ahh
Oct 13 13:31:16 <teemu> They were gone from the browsers list and when I tap on Bookmarks from the menu it just opens up a grey Bookmarks scene nothing in it
Oct 13 13:31:35 <teemu> Time to restart
Oct 13 13:31:45 <teemu> Too bad there goes good uptime ;)
Oct 13 13:35:00 <wysiwtf> hello
Oct 13 13:35:18 <wysiwtf> somehow i cant activate the WLAN on my pre anymore
Oct 13 13:35:44 <wysiwtf> the button in the drop down dialog (upper right) just does nothing
Oct 13 13:35:49 <teemu> Have you tried turning it on and off again?
Oct 13 13:35:50 <wysiwtf> restarting the device didnt help either
Oct 13 13:36:26 <wysiwtf> same for bluetooth
Oct 13 13:36:44 <wysiwtf> since the wlan hotspot app still werks i think its more a problem with the software
Oct 13 13:37:12 <wysiwtf> ill remove the bat and do a real cold restart
Oct 13 13:39:50 <wysiwtf> lalala
Oct 13 13:39:56 <wysiwtf> *palm logo flashing*
Oct 13 13:40:00 <teemu> :)
Oct 13 13:42:29 <wysiwtf> nope, no change :(
Oct 13 13:42:51 <wysiwtf> airplane mode is the only button that does something
Oct 13 13:43:31 <wysiwtf> last thing i installed was a patch for a system volume slider over preware
Oct 13 13:43:45 <wysiwtf> ill try uninstalling but it doesnt really make sense...
Oct 13 13:46:47 <wysiwtf> *palm logo flashing*
Oct 13 13:47:09 <wysiwtf> lol
Oct 13 13:47:15 <wysiwtf> now it works again
Oct 13 13:47:19 <wysiwtf> what a stupid bug
Oct 13 13:47:22 <haeffb_pre> #webos-internals might be able to help
Oct 13 13:47:41 <wysiwtf> i helped myself but ill check there to submit some sort of "bug report" :p
Oct 13 13:51:01 <wysiwtf> thanks anyway :)
Oct 13 13:51:03 <wysiwtf> cya
Oct 13 13:54:10 <summatusmentis> does anyone have any experience doing hardware replacements on the Pre?
Oct 13 13:54:41 <hotdp> :) what do you need to replace?
Oct 13 14:15:01 <summatusmentis> hotdp: I'm trying to replace the power button
Oct 13 14:15:08 <summatusmentis> but I figured it out, I think
Oct 13 14:20:25 <summatusmentis> I think I'm just going to replace the whole slider mechanism
Oct 13 14:39:52 <sugardave> "I installed a patch that doesn't come with the system, but that definitely can't be the reason why something doesn't work."  That is sound logic right there.
Oct 13 14:40:27 <hotdp> lol
Oct 13 14:53:38 <sugardave> people are not understanding that convertDate is a valuable thing to use...javascript Date is not going to cut it alone
Oct 13 14:53:42 <sugardave> arg
Oct 13 14:54:52 <hotdp> who are you talking about :P
Oct 13 14:56:07 <sugardave> http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=43179#p43179
Oct 13 15:00:24 <hotdp> i see :D
Oct 13 15:00:32 <hotdp> How is your app doing?
Oct 13 15:01:54 <sugardave> pretty good except for this weird problem...meeting time, bbl
Oct 13 15:05:30 <hotdp> bbl
Oct 13 15:16:01 <sugardave> gee, I guess Scan Do! plateaued after 3 days...that must be some kind of record
Oct 13 15:17:01 <halfhalo> lol
Oct 13 15:39:11 <funkatron> JS date stuff is ass
Oct 13 15:39:18 <funkatron> esp coming from PHP's date functionality
Oct 13 15:40:06 <sugardave> funkatron: I have minimal PHP experience, but anything has got to be better than js dates for dst calculation, I'm quite convinced of that now :D
Oct 13 15:40:17 <funkatron> yeah
Oct 13 15:40:21 <halfhalo> ruby date FTW
Oct 13 15:40:23 <funkatron> PHP's date stuff is really really powerful
Oct 13 15:40:58 <sugardave> arg, I didn't want to have to do a web service....I want convertDate to work :D
Oct 13 15:41:40 <sugardave> there's an even lamer bug with it, though...and if I can't figure out how to keep it from happening, convertDate will HAVE to be abandoned
Oct 13 15:42:14 <funkatron> there's a lib called date.js which is massive but handy
Oct 13 15:42:37 <funkatron> but last I checked the release was pretty long in the tooth. you could find the current repo version though and it was better
Oct 13 15:42:42 <sugardave> ah, yeah I haven't looked externally yet, I was so close with Mojo :D
Oct 13 15:48:03 <Bmyers> ust be a library somewhere sugardave
Oct 13 15:48:07 <Bmyers> m ^
Oct 13 15:49:39 <sugardave> the more I think about it, though, the less I am hopeful....it's js, the only way to get the real offset with dst adjust is to "be" in the timezone, so you have to be able to change to it somehow.  That's not in JS, that's a system service
Oct 13 15:50:20 <sugardave> I guess if it had the current tzdata, you could compute it yourself
Oct 13 15:50:44 <sugardave> that might work, but then I need to figure out how to keep the tzdata current
Oct 13 15:51:32 <sugardave> those zoneinfo files aren't very friendly, either, trust me
Oct 13 15:52:25 <Bmyers> curiouser and curiouser
Oct 13 15:53:10 <sugardave> I think it's some sick joke rwhitby came up with..."how many developers can I sucker into this 'easy' app and then drive them insane"
Oct 13 15:53:28 <Bmyers> sounds like something he would do
Oct 13 15:53:38 <oilsworkn> sugardave: HAHA
Oct 13 16:16:34 <sugardave> chuqui: OMG make them fix convertDate :P
Oct 13 16:17:14 <oilsworkn> and fix it in 1.4.5?
Oct 13 16:17:15 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 16:17:27 <sugardave> yes, right now :D
Oct 13 16:18:24 <sugardave> 1.4.5.2, now with support for Real Time
Oct 13 16:19:36 <oilsworkn> and by real time, he means rod time
Oct 13 16:26:30 <alexfner> I'm sitting in an intro programming class for CSE
Oct 13 16:26:36 <alexfner> and I'm pretty sure he's moving to classes
Oct 13 16:26:44 <alexfner> and I'm kind of yawning here guys
Oct 13 16:26:46 <alexfner> entertain me
Oct 13 16:27:02 <alexfner> did this stuff already!
Oct 13 16:27:35 <alexfner> bingo
Oct 13 16:27:44 <alexfner> 15 minutes into class and he finally said "class"
Oct 13 16:27:47 <alexfner> in the c++ way
Oct 13 16:28:05 <alexfner> (this is my live blog of the lecture)
Oct 13 16:32:09 <summatusmentis> what is the c++ way?
Oct 13 16:32:18 <sugardave> pain?
Oct 13 16:34:13 <alexfner> hey chuqui why did you decide to go to Palm?  and how has the transition to hp been?
Oct 13 16:35:43 <Robdor> summatusmentis: "Cla++" :)
Oct 13 16:36:15 <summatusmentis> Robdor: hrr hrr :)
Oct 13 16:38:32 <chuqui> alexfner: I saw lots of potential in the technology and I have a lot of respect for Ruby from being at Apple when he was there.
Oct 13 16:39:51 <chuqui> alexfner: The transition to HP so far has been pretty positive and smooth. Meeting lots of really sharp and savvy people; they're really working to help us accelerate our development. Lots to do, of course.
Oct 13 16:41:08 <summatusmentis> chuqui: do you know enough about it to/can you comment on internship possibilities?
Oct 13 16:41:26 <alexfner> summatusmentis: i can comment on this
Oct 13 16:41:36 <chuqui> summatusmentis: it's not something I've been involved in, so I really don't know about them...
Oct 13 16:41:36 <alexfner> I went to a career fair and talked to a few hp guys
Oct 13 16:41:50 <summatusmentis> chuqui: no worries, I was just curious
Oct 13 16:41:51 <alexfner> and they pointed out that because so much of palm is transitioning to hp
Oct 13 16:42:27 <alexfner> that it is a difficult time to try and intern at palm
Oct 13 16:42:40 <summatusmentis> alexfner: that makes some sense
Oct 13 16:43:06 <alexfner> not to mention that palm is pretty exclusive
Oct 13 16:43:13 <summatusmentis> alexfner: I'm mostly just curious, I'm hoping to go to grad school in an area mostly unrelated to webos/palm
Oct 13 16:43:21 <alexfner> so they can hand pick people from down the street at stanford
Oct 13 16:43:25 <alexfner> ah interesting :)
Oct 13 16:44:02 <summatusmentis> alexfner: well, sure, I mean, they're a company, they get to hand-pick whoever they want, but I like to think I have a decent resume
Oct 13 16:44:09 <alexfner> chuqui: good to know.  Do you see the palm developer community being integrated into the larger hp community?
Oct 13 16:44:24 <alexfner> summatusmentis: oh certainly, I don't mean to discredit you
Oct 13 16:44:50 <summatusmentis> alexfner: that's not how I took it :) just commenting
Oct 13 16:47:57 <chuqui> alexfner: Right now, we're leaving things the way they are. There's a lot of thought and discussion we need to have to decide what the right setup is over the long term.
Oct 13 16:49:38 <sugardave> ha, this is at the top of my gmail: "Texas company, not in India Trust your businss to local experts"  outsourcing works!
Oct 13 16:51:25 <alexfner> hmm, very exciting
Oct 13 16:51:48 <alexfner> I am excited to see hp's cloud services portfolio
Oct 13 16:52:14 <alexfner> as a college student with no money, I'm still trying to figure out how one goes about creating a cloud service on a shoestring budget, but I think the answer is they don't
Oct 13 16:53:21 <summatusmentis> well... have you looked at google app engine?
Oct 13 16:53:32 <summatusmentis> I think they provide cloud support for up to 8 apps for free?
Oct 13 16:53:34 <summatusmentis> or something?
Oct 13 16:53:39 <Loudergood> float it within someone elses cloud
Oct 13 16:53:49 <alexfner> only somewhat, but it doesn't seem like it'd offer the kind of scale
Oct 13 16:54:34 <HattCzech_work> chuqui: any love or hate for SFR right now?
Oct 13 16:54:35 <summatusmentis> I don't know much about the need for scaling, or what to look for in scale-proof stuff
Oct 13 16:55:00 <alexfner> summatusmentis: it just seems like, if you want to offer a commercial service, that's not what google's app engine is for
Oct 13 16:55:22 <sugardave> alexfner: I haven't looked at it, but I think Amazon is relatively inexpensive (I have no idea how much)
Oct 13 16:55:36 <summatusmentis> alexfner: no, I think they generally want you to pay if you need to scale to large commercial services
Oct 13 16:56:01 <sugardave> alexfner: plus, I run some 'web services' on my shared web host...but that's because my apps are tiny
Oct 13 16:56:11 <alexfner> sugardave: it's a cost benefit, it offers the ability to scale if you choose, but if your service grows linearly it doesn't seem to make sense
Oct 13 16:56:11 <sugardave> and have a small user base
Oct 13 16:56:25 <chuqui> HattCzech_work: even if there was, I wouldn't say... (grin)
Oct 13 16:56:30 <alexfner> but I am not entirely sure, I can't do the math very well
Oct 13 16:56:41 <HattCzech_work> hehehe, fair enough :)
Oct 13 16:57:14 <alexfner> chuqui: one more question(maybe): do you think that the vision for webOS has changed significantly with the acquisition by hp?
Oct 13 16:57:36 <summatusmentis> alexfner: I've heard from people more knowledgeable than me that amazon and google's offerings are pretty much identical, cost-wise
Oct 13 16:57:43 <summatusmentis> but those are full "cloud" offerings
Oct 13 16:57:48 <summatusmentis> which is different than the app engine
Oct 13 16:58:02 <alexfner> yeah and they are both really good ways to scale
Oct 13 16:58:08 <alexfner> but even they seem really expensive for me
Oct 13 16:58:48 <summatusmentis> http://code.google.com/appengine/kb/billing.html#freequota
Oct 13 16:59:03 <summatusmentis> are you planning on going above 5 million page views a month?
Oct 13 16:59:18 <alexfner> for example, if I want to have a cloud service to manage the backend for a 2d canvas based, multiplayer game, I can't compute the usage I will need
Oct 13 16:59:23 <chuqui> alexfner: yes, I do. they think a lot bigger and see many more options. it'll be interesting to see how that plays out (but I won't go into any details)
Oct 13 16:59:26 <alexfner> I think I just don't know enough
Oct 13 16:59:43 <summatusmentis> oh
Oct 13 16:59:46 <summatusmentis> I see what you're saying
Oct 13 17:00:05 <summatusmentis> so you want compute time
Oct 13 17:00:11 <summatusmentis> not app hosting
Oct 13 17:00:17 <alexfner> yessir
Oct 13 17:00:23 <summatusmentis> I didn't follow that
Oct 13 17:01:12 * oilsworkn wonders how hard it is to walk that "i know but can't tell you" line that chuqui seems to be so good at :)
Oct 13 17:01:23 <alexfner> chuqui: certainly, I think it's really interesting to people who are actually in the organization that makes webOS instead of looking to punditry and speculation on the blogs
Oct 13 17:01:34 <alexfner> s'good to talk with you
Oct 13 17:01:40 * sugardave plies chuqui with liquor and cameras.
Oct 13 17:01:51 * halfhalo hides more cameras
Oct 13 17:02:09 * halfhalo also appropriates the toaster
Oct 13 17:02:42 * oilsworkn googled plies, and still isnt sure what sugardave was talking about
Oct 13 17:02:51 <chuqui> oilsworkn: it comes with the territory.
Oct 13 17:03:10 <chuqui> sugardave: thanks! (but it didn't work)
Oct 13 17:03:36 <halfhalo> sugardave: small vps ftw
Oct 13 17:03:53 <summatusmentis> anyone know if the spaz dev is about?
Oct 13 17:04:07 * oilsworkn doesnt see funkatron
Oct 13 17:04:16 <sugardave> halfhalo: one day I will need one...I hope
Oct 13 17:04:24 <halfhalo> its like 9.99 a month
Oct 13 17:04:24 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: thanks
Oct 13 17:04:48 <sugardave> oilsworkn: you ply somebody with something they like in order to get them to do things for you
Oct 13 17:04:55 <summatusmentis> I'm using thrust::vps and I get decent specs
Oct 13 17:04:57 <sugardave> i.e. spill the beans
Oct 13 17:05:27 <halfhalo> I'm using two webbynodes, not the greatest specs in the world, but more than I need and I get to have a dev and prod setup
Oct 13 17:05:41 <halfhalo> and I also have a third for staging with slightly better specs
Oct 13 17:05:49 <sugardave> halfhalo: you have a vps for $10/month?
Oct 13 17:06:00 <sugardave> last time I looked I was getting quoted $50
Oct 13 17:06:07 <halfhalo> yeah
Oct 13 17:06:19 <alexfner> sugardave: www.linode.com 20/month
Oct 13 17:06:21 <halfhalo> I have two at that price, then a third
Oct 13 17:06:35 <halfhalo> I moved from linux to them recently
Oct 13 17:06:38 <sugardave> hmmm, that's not much more than I pay for my shared account
Oct 13 17:06:39 <summatusmentis> sugardave: the "low end" boxes are usually 256MB ram, 10GB of storage, etc.
Oct 13 17:06:47 <halfhalo> yup
Oct 13 17:06:54 <halfhalo> but plenty fast for my needs
Oct 13 17:06:56 <sugardave> I think that's plenty
Oct 13 17:06:57 <alexfner> summatusmentis: I'll be more specific.  I am looking to make a 2d multiplayer game, and I need a backend
Oct 13 17:07:27 <alexfner> summatusmentis: so i am looking around, and I don't know what to look at because i don't have a clue what I am going to ened
Oct 13 17:07:29 <oilsworkn> people pay for hosting?
Oct 13 17:07:32 * oilsworkn lols
Oct 13 17:07:34 <summatusmentis> alexfner: yeh
Oct 13 17:07:39 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: how do you get it?
Oct 13 17:07:45 <oilsworkn> fo frees
Oct 13 17:07:47 * sugardave blames oil for his having to pay for hosting.
Oct 13 17:07:53 <alexfner> summatusmentis: and I want to do things much more complicated than that, but I need to figure out the computing part of it first
Oct 13 17:09:11 <alexfner> what I need is employees
Oct 13 17:09:27 <alexfner> any body want to work for me?  The pay sucks, the food sucks, and the housing sucks
Oct 13 17:10:04 <oilsworkn> well with benefits like that, who would say no?
Oct 13 17:10:07 <sugardave> NO
Oct 13 17:10:11 <alexfner> but you can have all the free espresso you want
Oct 13 17:10:17 <oilsworkn> how's the dental?
Oct 13 17:10:24 <alexfner> dental is excellent, actually
Oct 13 17:10:28 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 17:10:37 <sugardave> he removes all your teeth on day one, so no worries
Oct 13 17:10:44 <oilsworkn> if excellent is defined as "brand new chisel and hammer"
Oct 13 17:11:14 <alexfner> no no no guys, you're making me out to be crazy
Oct 13 17:11:24 <alexfner> as long as you have dental insurance, the dental is excellent
Oct 13 17:12:44 <halfhalo> Heh
Oct 13 17:12:48 <oilsworkn> well, give sugardave a week, he'll want anything to get away from the rod time app
Oct 13 17:12:58 <halfhalo> I mostly use my vps for testing stuff
Oct 13 17:14:50 <alexfner> and there's spaz, and then he's gone
Oct 13 17:16:39 <alexfner> wow
Oct 13 17:16:42 <alexfner> so this lecture
Oct 13 17:16:48 <alexfner> and introduction to classes
Oct 13 17:16:51 <alexfner> and he just goes through code
Oct 13 17:17:00 <alexfner> I would have expected a conceptual overview
Oct 13 17:17:15 <alexfner> doesn't matter for me, but I'd hate to be a student who hasn't done this before
Oct 13 17:17:17 <sugardave> "The Concept of Conceptualization"
Oct 13 17:17:23 <alexfner> ...and it's over
Oct 13 17:17:27 <alexfner> be back later folks
Oct 13 17:17:35 * halfhalo has two conceptual comp classes this sem
Oct 13 17:17:39 <halfhalo> THEY SUCK
Oct 13 17:17:53 <sugardave> I can't think of anything more horrible
Oct 13 17:18:19 * halfhalo keeps checking ups for tracking info
Oct 13 17:20:56 <oilsworkn> funkatron: someone was lookin for you
Oct 13 17:21:01 <funkatron> okay
Oct 13 17:21:34 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 17:21:36 <oilsworkn> i think it was summatusmentis
Oct 13 17:21:55 <summatusmentis> funkatron: hey, you're the spaz dev right?
Oct 13 17:21:59 <funkatron> I am
Oct 13 17:22:19 <summatusmentis> d'you have any plans for "just type" to tweet functionality?
Oct 13 17:22:49 <funkatron> yes
Oct 13 17:23:19 <oilsworkn> oh, thats all it was about?
Oct 13 17:23:21 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 17:23:56 <sugardave> oh hey, those are better app numbers
Oct 13 17:24:11 <oilsworkn> what are?
Oct 13 17:24:28 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: yes, >.>
Oct 13 17:24:38 <summatusmentis> funkatron: is it in the current beta? or am I just dumb?
Oct 13 17:24:51 <funkatron> Just Type is a webos 2.0 feature
Oct 13 17:25:11 <oilsworkn> NDA
Oct 13 17:25:19 <oilsworkn> :)
Oct 13 17:25:48 <halfhalo> yo're nda
Oct 13 17:26:19 <sugardave> oilsworkn: I've been refreshing my dev portal because I have a new paid app in the catalog (it's been almost a year) and I was concerned that it was done getting downloads
Oct 13 17:26:21 <funkatron> point being, no, it cannot be in a public release
Oct 13 17:26:27 * oilsworkn tries to come up with something else thats awesome that can be abbreviated to nda, but comes up empty
Oct 13 17:26:29 <sugardave> and it refreshed today
Oct 13 17:26:47 <sugardave> Not Dead Already
Oct 13 17:26:57 <oilsworkn> not very awesome though
Oct 13 17:27:00 <sugardave> no
Oct 13 17:27:02 <oilsworkn> i should hope im not dead
Oct 13 17:27:15 <oilsworkn> sugardave: i haven't updated either of my catalog apps in like a year, lol
Oct 13 17:27:35 <sugardave> I have something special planned for Yule Log
Oct 13 17:27:42 <sugardave> but not yet
Oct 13 17:27:48 <sugardave> "coming soon"
Oct 13 17:28:15 <oilsworkn> Yule Log HD
Oct 13 17:28:22 <sugardave> pretty much
Oct 13 17:28:25 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 17:28:36 <sugardave> renting a camera this weekend :D
Oct 13 17:28:40 <oilsworkn> haha
Oct 13 17:29:50 <summatusmentis> funkatron: oh, I guess I knew that. Bad Kitty's got it, which is why I ask
Oct 13 17:30:14 <funkatron> I don't know how bad kitty would implement a Just Type feature in webos 1.4.5
Oct 13 17:30:36 <funkatron> but I don't use other clients, so I can't comment on them.
Oct 13 17:30:36 <sugardave> is it just a filter for tweets?
Oct 13 17:30:54 <sugardave> that would be different
Oct 13 17:32:10 <summatusmentis> it's not a filter for tweets, they're not searching twitter. I'm not sure how they're doing it either, perhaps it's something they do internally? whereas the Just Type stuff is system-wide?
Oct 13 17:32:48 <sugardave> hmm
Oct 13 17:32:53 <hotdp> good evning
Oct 13 17:36:04 <sugardave> woo, I get a dev phone....at some point
Oct 13 17:36:08 <sugardave> :D
Oct 13 17:36:18 <summatusmentis> I don't :(
Oct 13 17:36:19 <oilsworkn> shocking
Oct 13 17:36:25 <sugardave> oilsworkn: :P
Oct 13 17:36:45 <oilsworkn> maybe now you can make it so it doesn't blow away my alarms
Oct 13 17:38:49 <sugardave> oilsworkn: that second one I sent you shouldn't be doing that :S
Oct 13 17:38:57 <oilsworkn> oh, it does
Oct 13 17:39:01 <sugardave> hmmm
Oct 13 17:39:02 <sugardave> lame
Oct 13 17:39:21 <sugardave> well, I have another one that won't, but it will also say your timezone is something like California/GMT
Oct 13 17:39:32 <sugardave> which is odd
Oct 13 17:41:35 <halfhalo> Lol
Oct 13 17:42:41 <oilsworkn> you could always put a "Only accurate if used in california" label on it
Oct 13 17:43:21 <sugardave> no, it does it to all of them...right now my emulator thinks it's in Chicago/GMT
Oct 13 17:43:23 <halfhalo> Doitdoitdoit
Oct 13 17:43:33 <sugardave> the times are still correct, it just looks funny
Oct 13 17:43:45 <sugardave> and the other weird thing is that javascript will still report CDT
Oct 13 17:44:25 <oilsworkn> sounds like a great app
Oct 13 17:44:30 <halfhalo> Yup
Oct 13 17:44:32 <sugardave> it is awesome :D
Oct 13 17:45:00 <sugardave> I think this may be why they don't have any examples of using convertDate
Oct 13 17:45:19 <oilsworkn> you could advertize it as "breaks your alarms for only 99 cents"
Oct 13 17:45:35 <halfhalo> I would almost buy it
Oct 13 17:46:47 <sugardave> I need to do some more testing and see if leaving network timezone on will keep it from showing the wrong tz
Oct 13 17:51:33 <sugardave> no, that makes no difference...I'm guessing convertDate must be doing something similar to my original manual method, but they are switching to GMT to do calclulation and not setting everything back properly
Oct 13 17:56:35 <halfhalo> Dundundun....
Oct 13 17:56:46 <halfhalo> Heh, laptop has 33 minutes of batt left
Oct 13 17:56:58 <halfhalo> I may have forgotten to charge it last night...
Oct 13 17:57:33 <sugardave> oops
Oct 13 18:00:12 <dohtem> sugardave: you there?
Oct 13 18:02:02 <sugardave> dohtem: yep
Oct 13 18:02:05 <sugardave> what's up?
Oct 13 18:02:12 <dohtem> pm?
Oct 13 18:02:24 <sugardave> sure
Oct 13 18:02:35 <maruku> hi there
Oct 13 18:03:57 <maruku> I'm getting an error when trying to compile using the scripts that came with the WebOS SDL template for xCode
Oct 13 18:04:03 <maruku> ld: cannot find -lSDLmain
Oct 13 18:04:14 <maruku> any thoughs on this?
Oct 13 18:06:33 <halfhalo> WTF?  My laptop boots from the ultra bay?
Oct 13 18:06:50 <Robdor> maruku: What linker flags are you using?
Oct 13 18:06:55 <halfhalo> Oh you stupid laptop... You installed the windows bootloaser there didn't you...
Oct 13 18:07:40 <sugardave> uh-oh, the C programmers are about to talk about things I don't understand
Oct 13 18:07:58 <halfhalo> 19 minutes remaining...
Oct 13 18:08:18 <halfhalo> Stop using power you stupid sob
Oct 13 18:08:36 <iWinRar> had to order a new cable to charge my pre :(
Oct 13 18:08:49 <maruku> Robdor: LIBS="-lSDL -lSDLmain -lSDL_Image -lpdl -lGLESv2"
Oct 13 18:08:57 <dohtem> iWinRar: it's just a microUSB right?
Oct 13 18:09:08 <iWinRar> yea
Oct 13 18:09:14 <Robdor> maruku: You also need a -L/opt/PalmPDK/host/lib in there so that it knows where to find the libs.
Oct 13 18:09:19 <iWinRar> still sucks :( lol
Oct 13 18:09:21 <creationix> microusb is suprizingly hard to come by
Oct 13 18:09:31 <maruku> oki
Oct 13 18:09:34 <Robdor> maruku: I assume that because I see SDLmain you are using a mac...
Oct 13 18:09:37 <iWinRar> i hope mine lasts until the one i ordered comes
Oct 13 18:09:46 <dohtem> iWinRar: I used to think it was proprietary... I almost plunked down $$ for one on Amazon
Oct 13 18:09:48 <maruku> gonna look how to include it there...
Oct 13 18:09:55 <maruku> yep using a mac here ;)
Oct 13 18:10:03 <iWinRar> i got mine monoprice lol
Oct 13 18:10:07 <iWinRar> less then 3 dolla
Oct 13 18:10:23 <creationix> iWinRar: I did find a multi-tipped usb cable at walmart that included a tip for microusb
Oct 13 18:10:30 <creationix> though the cable shortly got a short in it
Oct 13 18:10:51 <iWinRar> yea mine seems to have a short, annoying to hear my netbook having it connect and disconnect all the time
Oct 13 18:10:59 <Robdor> maruku: Are you using xcode 3.2 or the xcode 4 beta? The palm template should already set that stuff up for you in xcode 3.2.
Oct 13 18:11:06 <dohtem> is that what that is?!
Oct 13 18:11:10 <iWinRar> where it connects to the phone the rubber coating came off
Oct 13 18:11:14 <maruku> xcode 3.2
Oct 13 18:11:14 <creationix> I like the cable that comes with the nexus one, it's solid
Oct 13 18:11:18 <iWinRar> from using it while on the charger
Oct 13 18:11:26 <maruku> but the template only put there LIBDIR="${PalmPDK}/device/lib"
Oct 13 18:11:37 <iWinRar> so it always bent at like a 90 degree angle there
Oct 13 18:11:45 <iWinRar> anyone know how long the orginal cable is?
Oct 13 18:11:47 <maruku> I must figure out where and how put there the host/lib you told me
Oct 13 18:12:08 <Robdor> maruku: Weird that it would set up device/lib instead of host/lib. I didn't think that the template tried to compile anything for the device.
Oct 13 18:12:13 <creationix> iWinRar: I'd say about 4 feet
Oct 13 18:12:44 <maruku> well, the script is called buildit_for_device.sh
Oct 13 18:12:50 <sugardave> that seems about right, maybe a little shorter
Oct 13 18:12:59 <creationix> iWinRar: I think frys has some good cables
Oct 13 18:12:59 <iWinRar> alright, the one i ordered was 6 feet i figure if i ever use my wall charger again i can use it on all seeting spots in most places i go
Oct 13 18:13:01 <maruku> so I understand it is going to compile it for the devide
Oct 13 18:13:02 <creationix> I haven't been in a while
Oct 13 18:13:39 <Robdor> maruku: I didn't think that script was used from the xcode template.
Oct 13 18:13:41 <maruku> Robdor: BTW I was looking forward your tutorials ;) hehehehe
Oct 13 18:13:55 <iWinRar> no frys here but as long as this one i order lasts me a while ill be happy
Oct 13 18:14:19 <iWinRar> i hope the pre2 comes with a touchstone back, which i figure it will
Oct 13 18:14:27 <maruku> Robdor: yep, when you start a new project the template puts a couple of sh files there
Oct 13 18:14:36 <Robdor> maruku: I'm taking a different direction with the tutorials, so it's going to be quite a while before I start writing them. I think that alexfner is writing a PDK tutorial series on webos101.com.
Oct 13 18:14:39 <maruku> the one that I told before and runit.sh
Oct 13 18:14:54 <dohtem> iWinRar: heh, I already stocked up on the discount touchstone bases
Oct 13 18:15:02 <Robdor> maruku: But when you compile and debug from xcode it doesn't use those scripts.
Oct 13 18:15:04 <creationix> iWinRar: I'm pretty sure you can buy the touchstone back standalone
Oct 13 18:15:11 <creationix> but the pre-plus came with one
Oct 13 18:15:15 <Robdor> So you shouldn't need those to build for the host. Only for the device.
Oct 13 18:15:22 <iWinRar> to be honest i dont even have a touch stone
Oct 13 18:15:25 <maruku> Robdor: sure, from xCode it does not use them
Oct 13 18:15:44 <Robdor> So why build for the host outside of xcode?
Oct 13 18:15:59 <Robdor> Or are you trying to build for the device?
Oct 13 18:16:20 <maruku> Robdor: I wanted to test what I did on the device
Oct 13 18:16:34 <Robdor> Ah, I see.  You don't need SDLmain for the device.
Oct 13 18:16:36 <maruku> I can compile from xcode
Oct 13 18:16:48 <Robdor> SDLmain is an objective-c wrapper to run sdl apps on the mac.
Oct 13 18:17:07 <maruku> but when running the app, crashes cause I cannot reach an image path
Oct 13 18:17:11 <Robdor> I thought you were using the scripts to build for the host.
Oct 13 18:17:25 <maruku> cool, so I dont need it
Oct 13 18:19:22 <maruku> it compiles but gives a lot of warning concerning libraries needed for others but not found...
Oct 13 18:19:37 <maruku> that is so crazy... hahahaha
Oct 13 18:20:16 <maruku> maybe I should install Window$ on my Mac to be able to do it on an easy way...
Oct 13 18:20:20 <Robdor> Yeah, you should see warnings for 5 or 6 libs. That's normal.
Oct 13 18:21:04 <Robdor> 14 libs it looks like. Palm links them at runtime.
Oct 13 18:22:41 <maruku> ups
Oct 13 18:22:43 <maruku> ok
Oct 13 18:25:54 <dohtem> sugardave: heh, i got a call.  Looks like  I'm good.
Oct 13 18:27:08 <sugardave> ooh, a phone call?  spiffy
Oct 13 18:28:02 <iWinRar> i hope the touchstone isnt the last product we see on that line as when they were first announced they said there would be others
Oct 13 18:28:39 <sugardave> well, we know the Pre 2 will be Touchstone compatible
Oct 13 18:29:16 <iWinRar> with current touchstones but i was hoping more then just the one product
Oct 13 18:30:19 <sugardave> like what?  I would hope there's a similar base for the tablets/netbooks, but I don't know what else
Oct 13 18:30:45 <iWinRar> well when the orginal touchstone was announced they said it was a line of products
Oct 13 18:30:56 <dohtem> really?
Oct 13 18:31:03 <sugardave> but it's just a base...
Oct 13 18:31:11 <sugardave> I don't know what else it can do :D
Oct 13 18:31:27 <halfhalo> cookies
Oct 13 18:31:46 <halfhalo> my e key is acting up...
Oct 13 18:31:52 <Schalla> Eatable Touchstone Cookies?
Oct 13 18:31:55 <sugardave> my f key drops sometimes
Oct 13 18:32:46 <iWinRar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUUrGmP5LXI
Oct 13 18:32:54 <dohtem> whoo... meetup in SF - http://developer.palm.com/blog/2010/10/upcoming-events-fall-2010/
Oct 13 18:33:35 <keith> you in sf dohtem?
Oct 13 18:33:55 <dohtem> sac
Oct 13 18:34:09 <keith> ahh
Oct 13 18:34:12 <dohtem> i can make the 90 min drive :)
Oct 13 18:34:35 <sugardave> I KNOW when Ben moves to Austin that good things will happen here
Oct 13 18:34:38 * oilsworkn is going to drive down from washington
Oct 13 18:34:44 <keith> sugardave: car mount, swivel dock, look at at the ipod line
Oct 13 18:34:48 <keith> the touchstone line could be better
Oct 13 18:34:57 <iWinRar> instead of a single product lol
Oct 13 18:35:03 <sugardave> keith: ah, I see, accessories for the base
Oct 13 18:35:11 <keith> be like android and do a2dp to the device, then have a audio out port
Oct 13 18:35:15 <keith> no, not accessories for the base
Oct 13 18:35:17 * halfhalo can't afford the trip up there
Oct 13 18:35:25 <keith> brand new accessories that utilize touchstone
Oct 13 18:35:26 <oilsworkn> up?
Oct 13 18:35:35 <dohtem> sugardave: which Ben?
Oct 13 18:35:38 <Schalla> Like a touchstone case
Oct 13 18:35:48 <halfhalo> from la
Oct 13 18:35:50 <sugardave> unwiredben, I think I heard he's moving here
Oct 13 18:36:05 * oilsworkn is going to go though halfhalo!
Oct 13 18:36:36 <halfhalo> cool
Oct 13 18:36:45 <dohtem> keith: you in the bay area?
Oct 13 18:36:47 <keith> dohtem: yea
Oct 13 18:36:52 * halfhalo is goingto ces and went to devdays.  /win
Oct 13 18:36:52 <keith> work in the mission
Oct 13 18:36:58 <dohtem> nice
Oct 13 18:37:05 <keith> i went to the first predevcamp
Oct 13 18:37:14 <sugardave> I missed that, too :(
Oct 13 18:37:18 <dohtem> dev day in April?
Oct 13 18:37:29 <creationix> I organized a node.js meetup at palm, does that count
Oct 13 18:37:29 <dohtem> I gotta go to CES
Oct 13 18:37:38 <creationix> never been to a palm organized event though
Oct 13 18:37:38 <keith> i want to goto ces this yr
Oct 13 18:37:43 <dohtem> creationix: not really :)
Oct 13 18:37:48 <keith> now that i'm in sf, its a short jaunt
Oct 13 18:38:03 <keith> compared to seattle, which ive been the last 5 years
Oct 13 18:38:33 <iWinRar> i want a pre2
Oct 13 18:38:41 * iWinRar pokes his sprint pre
Oct 13 18:40:05 <sugardave> I feel your pain
Oct 13 18:40:11 <dohtem> haha
Oct 13 18:40:18 <creationix> actually overclocking my pre makes it almost nice
Oct 13 18:40:27 <creationix> and it doesn't seem to hurt the battery too much
Oct 13 18:40:41 * halfhalo deals with a plus on sprint
Oct 13 18:40:58 <creationix> yeah, I've got preplus on att
Oct 13 18:41:05 <halfhalo> apparently at 800mhz
Oct 13 18:41:14 * oilsworkn hates everyone with pre+s
Oct 13 18:41:20 <halfhalo> lol
Oct 13 18:41:28 <halfhalo> coms swap ftw
Oct 13 18:41:33 <dohtem> why didnt Sprint get the +?
Oct 13 18:41:45 <halfhalo> they hate us
Oct 13 18:41:49 <sugardave> dumbassery?
Oct 13 18:41:52 <oilsworkn> ;(
Oct 13 18:42:17 <iWinRar> i dunno i find it funny how people hate on the pre2 because of it is 1ghz which there phone is overclocked, id rather have a stock phone at 1ghz rather then overclocking it. plus the ability to likely oc the pre2 to a much higher clock speed then 1ghz
Oct 13 18:42:17 <halfhalo> my laptop has been at 0 minutes remaining for about 15 minuts now
Oct 13 18:42:19 <dohtem> well Sprint does have cheapo plans... thats consolation enough
Oct 13 18:42:24 <iWinRar> seems rather silly to hate it for that reason
Oct 13 18:43:26 <oilsworkn> halfhalo: ive always wondered about that with electric cars
Oct 13 18:43:29 <sugardave> they're just upset because it doesn't have a fellatio attachment (well, the males, anyway)
Oct 13 18:43:45 <halfhalo> lol
Oct 13 18:43:48 <oilsworkn> do they have better "% left" calibration then laptops/phones/battery-powered-device
Oct 13 18:43:49 <oilsworkn> i mean
Oct 13 18:43:51 <iWinRar> doesnt sadden me it doesnt have a fallatio attachment
Oct 13 18:43:59 <iWinRar> that would be such a battery drainer
Oct 13 18:44:06 <oilsworkn> how far can i drive at 0%?
Oct 13 18:44:15 <halfhalo> there's always reserves though
Oct 13 18:44:22 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 18:44:29 <halfhalo> I would bet somethong lik 15 miles
Oct 13 18:44:38 <iWinRar> depends how fast you are driving
Oct 13 18:44:54 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 18:45:09 <iWinRar> i think you could get a few miles at 0 %
Oct 13 18:45:13 <halfhalo> holy crap out of juice go slow speed
Oct 13 18:45:31 <oilsworkn> is slow the answer?
Oct 13 18:45:36 <oilsworkn> wouldn't you want to go faster so you can coast longer?
Oct 13 18:45:53 <halfhalo> no
Oct 13 18:46:01 <iWinRar> yes
Oct 13 18:46:04 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 18:46:09 <iWinRar> and flip the nos switch
Oct 13 18:46:20 <iWinRar> we need more speed
Oct 13 18:46:21 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 18:46:22 <halfhalo> lol, stick a generator in the trunk
Oct 13 18:46:27 <halfhalo> problem solvd
Oct 13 18:46:32 <oilsworkn> nos would do nothing for electric car
Oct 13 18:46:32 <sugardave> the answer is "live at the bottom of a hill and only run out of power at the top of the hill"
Oct 13 18:46:53 <halfhalo> magnets
Oct 13 18:47:05 <oilsworkn> "honey, we need a longer extension cord, it doesn't reach to infront of the neighbors house
Oct 13 18:47:14 <halfhalo> lol
Oct 13 18:47:26 <sugardave> haha
Oct 13 18:47:32 <iWinRar> connect rockets on top of the car
Oct 13 18:47:36 <iWinRar> happy
Oct 13 18:47:43 <creationix> solar powered rockects
Oct 13 18:47:45 <creationix> with lazers
Oct 13 18:47:51 <iWinRar> no
Oct 13 18:47:53 <creationix> and narwhal stickers
Oct 13 18:47:56 <iWinRar> sharks wiaht lazers
Oct 13 18:47:59 <sugardave> nah, we need some big tesla towers and then we can all drive our electric cars for free
Oct 13 18:48:04 <iWinRar> with*
Oct 13 18:48:19 <halfhalo> hah
Oct 13 18:48:41 <iWinRar> or  just only drive when there is lightning
Oct 13 18:48:44 <iWinRar> free energy :D
Oct 13 18:48:50 <halfhalo> "honey, there's lightning today, I'll be home early!"
Oct 13 18:49:02 <creationix> man, I'd be set back in east texas
Oct 13 18:49:27 <iWinRar> sorry kids we might be a little late being as its winter and all
Oct 13 18:49:28 <creationix> I have yet to see lightening here in California
Oct 13 18:49:55 <halfhalo> eh, there's really none in socal
Oct 13 18:50:00 <oilsworkn> or wind powered
Oct 13 18:50:04 <halfhalo> fires on the other hand, yes
Oct 13 18:50:08 <oilsworkn> the speed of you driving turns the turbines and makes more power!
Oct 13 18:50:16 <creationix> I lived in orange county for two years and I think I saw it once
Oct 13 18:50:23 <iWinRar> wind power car might work depending on where u live
Oct 13 18:50:39 <oilsworkn> but if you're going 60mph, where you live doesn't really matter
Oct 13 18:50:44 <oilsworkn> thats at least 60mph winds!
Oct 13 18:50:46 <creationix> halfhalo: yes, waking up to a "winter wonderland" in june was fun
Oct 13 18:51:34 <halfhalo> lol
Oct 13 18:51:36 <iWinRar> how are yoi going to get up to 60mphs? pushing the car? lol
Oct 13 18:51:52 <halfhalo> I got evaced twice last year due to the omelveny fire
Oct 13 18:52:11 <oilsworkn> standing infront of it blowing?
Oct 13 18:53:04 <sugardave> we watched Back to the Future II last night...do you guys realize we're only 5 years away from flying cars AND being able to retro-fit old cars to fly, too?
Oct 13 18:53:08 <sugardave> I can't freaking wai
Oct 13 18:53:09 <sugardave> wait
Oct 13 18:53:20 <halfhalo> lol
Oct 13 18:53:30 <halfhalo> flying ford pintos!
Oct 13 18:53:43 * oilsworkn celebrates
Oct 13 18:53:43 <iWinRar> you be big pimpin then halfhalo
Oct 13 18:54:13 <sugardave> I'm going to buy an old beat-up school bus and fly that
Oct 13 18:54:43 <iWinRar> i almost was able to buy an old school bus for 500$ when the local schools got new buses
Oct 13 18:54:53 <iWinRar> didnt have anywhere to put it tho lol
Oct 13 18:54:55 * oilsworkn wants a delorian
Oct 13 18:55:02 <iWinRar> id have cut out half the seats
Oct 13 18:55:03 <alexfner> creationix: If you get a chance could you look at http://www.webos101.com/Javascript and let me know if my corrections for "this" are satisfactory?
Oct 13 18:55:04 <creationix> halfhalo: yeah, I soon realized that wasn't snow when I smelled the overwheling ash and saw the blood red sun in the sky
Oct 13 18:55:43 <creationix> alexfner: ok, reading…
Oct 13 18:55:45 <halfhalo> good times....
Oct 13 18:56:28 <dohtem> alexfner: Mozilla has an excellent JavaScript guide
Oct 13 18:56:52 <creationix> I've heard this howtonode.org site is pretty good too ;)
Oct 13 18:57:03 * oilsworkn heard that site was garbage
Oct 13 18:57:07 <alexfner> creationix: you'll notice I linked to it :D
Oct 13 18:57:27 <alexfner> dohtem: certainly, I just wanted that to serve as an introduction
Oct 13 18:57:43 <dohtem> ah, I see
Oct 13 18:57:55 * creationix blames oil
Oct 13 18:58:00 * alexfner blames oil
Oct 13 18:58:09 * dohtem blames oil
Oct 13 18:58:19 <oilsworkn> :/
Oct 13 18:58:32 <creationix> alexfner: javascript does have types
Oct 13 18:58:35 * halfhalo breaks the trend and doesn't blam oil!
Oct 13 18:58:41 <creationix> but you just don't have to declare them
Oct 13 18:58:50 <dohtem> I dont *blam* him either
Oct 13 18:58:53 <alexfner> creationix: yeah that is worded poorly
Oct 13 18:59:03 <creationix> but yes, there is only one number type
Oct 13 18:59:08 <alexfner> creationix: I just wanted to clarify that the developer doesn't have to worry about declaring them
Oct 13 18:59:14 <creationix> which is a good idea, except they chose the wrong number type
Oct 13 18:59:19 <oilsworkn> lol
Oct 13 18:59:24 <creationix> alexfner: sure, more reading…
Oct 13 18:59:27 <oilsworkn> parseInt()
Oct 13 18:59:33 <halfhalo> huzzah!
Oct 13 19:00:08 <dohtem> how "finished" does an app have to be to submit to the catalog
Oct 13 19:00:23 <dohtem> I mean, these errors are a bitch and I've had it
Oct 13 19:00:56 <creationix> alexfner: you can't call Main.add in your example
Oct 13 19:01:03 <creationix> it's not Main.add, it's Main.prototype.add
Oct 13 19:01:11 <alexfner> new instance
Oct 13 19:01:14 <alexfner> main.add?
Oct 13 19:01:22 <creationix> sure if you make an instance of it
Oct 13 19:01:28 <alexfner> yeah, I left that out
Oct 13 19:01:30 <alexfner> whoops!
Oct 13 19:01:37 <alexfner> see, this is why I need you here :)
Oct 13 19:02:23 <creationix> alexfner: ok, next problem, "this" and closure aren't related
Oct 13 19:02:27 <creationix> they are two different techniques
Oct 13 19:02:45 <creationix> I'd say "this" inside of a function
Oct 13 19:02:48 <creationix> not closure
Oct 13 19:03:50 <alexfner> damnit
Oct 13 19:03:59 <sugardave> dohtem: I go with the "does it compile/run/hide the bad stuff from the user?  Ship it!" method of determining if my app is ready to submit
Oct 13 19:04:09 <alexfner> I'll just leave these javascript tuts to you
Oct 13 19:04:38 <creationix> alexfner: no, don't do that, I can only write do much
Oct 13 19:04:40 <dohtem> sugardave: It's doesnt hide bad stuff from the user... 2/3 aint bad I guess.
Oct 13 19:04:55 <creationix> s/do/so/
Oct 13 19:05:03 <sugardave> dohtem: always remember that no matter how perfect your app is, the only reviews you get will be from people who hate it for some stupid reason
Oct 13 19:06:14 <sugardave> "It doesn't interface with full X.25 directories" or "It doesn't know how to import mail from Eudora for Win 3.11" etc.
Oct 13 19:06:16 <creationix> alexfner: so I have a question for you
Oct 13 19:06:35 <creationix> is it best to always use the constructor+prototype pattern when writing webos apps?
Oct 13 19:06:48 <sugardave> creationix: I vote yes
Oct 13 19:06:49 <radiofreejohn> too bad there isn't a rating system that uses a metric like how long and how frequently your app is used, ignoring the actual star rating
Oct 13 19:06:56 <creationix> is that the style mojo prefers / forces you to use
Oct 13 19:06:59 <alexfner> made the changes you suggested, thanks you
Oct 13 19:07:04 <radiofreejohn> like if people who download it use it daily for X minutes, versus how many people install it and delete it within a day or two
Oct 13 19:07:07 <sugardave> creationix: it doesn't force you
Oct 13 19:07:15 <dohtem> creationix: what other pattern is there?
Oct 13 19:07:23 <sugardave> radiofreejohn: yeah, that would be nice
Oct 13 19:07:26 <creationix> well, you can't force anything in javascript, but I mean make it difficult to do otherwise
Oct 13 19:07:35 <alexfner> creationix: what is the alternative?  You are able to use class.Create from prototype.js
Oct 13 19:07:45 <creationix> alexfner: meh, that's worse
Oct 13 19:07:45 <alexfner> aside from that I don't see any other options
Oct 13 19:07:50 <alexfner> yeah
Oct 13 19:08:11 <sugardave> I haven't tried them, but I bet any of Crockford's methods for object creation will work
Oct 13 19:08:22 <alexfner> you could try
Oct 13 19:08:23 <creationix> alexfner: so in all your examples on the wiki, it would be easier to make the object directly that create it through a constructor+prototype
Oct 13 19:08:46 <creationix> I wrote about my 3 favorite styles here http://howtonode.org/object-graphs-2
Oct 13 19:08:46 <alexfner> like var Main = {
Oct 13 19:08:51 <creationix> alexfner: yep
Oct 13 19:08:52 <sugardave> well, I tried one, and it does work..the 'extended widgets' page on webos101 shows my attempt at making Crockford's "durable private objects"
Oct 13 19:09:30 <creationix> don't get me wrong, the constructor+prototype pattern is the most powerful AND performant there is
Oct 13 19:09:43 <creationix> sometimes I just feel people don't realize there are other options
Oct 13 19:09:55 <creationix> especially when coming from a language like Java that forces that style
Oct 13 19:10:05 <alexfner> isn't that a matter of memory usage for GC?
Oct 13 19:10:09 <t8> what's up guys
Oct 13 19:10:37 <creationix> so yeah, what I call the factory pattern uses more memory, but is easier to use for many use cases
Oct 13 19:10:49 <alexfner> making object directly gets cleaned up differently in v8 versus constructor+prototype? is that true?
Oct 13 19:10:51 <creationix> since all functions are bound to the closure automatically
Oct 13 19:10:56 <alexfner> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2064
Oct 13 19:10:59 <creationix> alexfner: yeah, sadly
Oct 13 19:11:08 <creationix> v8 highly favors constructor+prototype
Oct 13 19:11:43 <creationix> I've done a LOT of performance testing with v8 and large numbers of objects (10,000,000)
Oct 13 19:11:53 <alexfner> 10 billion objects
Oct 13 19:11:55 <alexfner> muhahaha
Oct 13 19:12:01 <creationix> things get hairy real fast
Oct 13 19:12:07 <creationix> no, just million
Oct 13 19:12:45 <creationix> anyway, if the constructor+prototype pattern is easier for you, then by all means use it
Oct 13 19:12:49 <creationix> it's very powerful and fast
Oct 13 19:12:51 <alexfner> I know, but when I wrote that I read it back in that austin-powers-doctor-evil voice
Oct 13 19:12:54 <creationix> just hard to properly understand
Oct 13 19:13:03 <creationix> alexfner: lol
Oct 13 19:13:04 <alexfner> I can use it well
Oct 13 19:13:08 <alexfner> I can't explain it well
Oct 13 19:13:20 <alexfner> but I figured writing it out would make it easier for me to explain in the future
Oct 13 19:13:27 <alexfner> thus the purpose of the tutorials
Oct 13 19:13:27 <creationix> alexfner: you can hotlink to this if you want http://howtonode.org/object-graphs-2/classical.dot
Oct 13 19:13:47 <creationix> or download + upload to the wiki
Oct 13 19:13:52 <alexfner> but I find those are excellent graphs
Oct 13 19:13:58 <alexfner> I will probably just link to the entire article
Oct 13 19:14:20 <creationix> I think what you can do better than me is provide real-world examples of using the pattern in a mojo world
Oct 13 19:14:28 <creationix> I actually have very little OO experience
Oct 13 19:14:35 <alexfner> what is your experience?
Oct 13 19:14:39 <creationix> I mainly focus on learning the language well and teaching it to others
Oct 13 19:14:52 <sugardave> creationix: so your 3rd one, the factory, looks like Ares
Oct 13 19:14:56 <creationix> programming I have a mix of OO (php4 :()
Oct 13 19:15:09 <creationix> and functional and old-school procedural
Oct 13 19:15:09 <sugardave> and the first one looks like regular mojo when starting from scratch
Oct 13 19:15:26 <creationix> ares uses a lot of closures hih
Oct 13 19:15:28 <creationix> *huh
Oct 13 19:15:43 <sugardave> actually, I am wrong
Oct 13 19:16:20 <sugardave> wait, I am not...I guess it does, closures are still something I don't fully grok
Oct 13 19:16:29 <creationix> closures are hard
Oct 13 19:16:37 <alexfner> creationix: I've notice palm uses class.create extensively in their applications
Oct 13 19:16:38 <creationix> but essential to writing good js
Oct 13 19:16:47 <creationix> alexfner: bleh
Oct 13 19:17:13 <creationix> I hope the next version of mojo doesn't use prototype
Oct 13 19:17:16 <alexfner> but I noticed this problem
Oct 13 19:17:16 <sugardave> alexfner: but they don't put it in the skeletons generated via palm-generate :D
Oct 13 19:17:33 <alexfner> sugardave: sure, but the skeletons aren't worth much anyways
Oct 13 19:17:35 <creationix> sugardave: that's good
Oct 13 19:18:01 <sugardave> alexfner: they are worth saving me from typing those functions :D
Oct 13 19:18:26 <creationix> any framework that requires a code generator to be productive is badly designed (tm)
Oct 13 19:19:00 <sugardave> hell you don't NEED it...you could write it all by hand, it's just a constructor and 4-5 prototype functions
Oct 13 19:19:17 <creationix> hence "to be productive"
Oct 13 19:19:28 <t8> use Ares
Oct 13 19:19:29 <alexfner> all you really need is a Main.setup application
Oct 13 19:19:29 <creationix> sure you could write a rails app from scratch, but you would never do that
Oct 13 19:19:37 <alexfner> you don't need the other applications
Oct 13 19:19:43 <t8> Ares makes everything so much simpler
Oct 13 19:19:48 <t8> Ares reminds me of the Flash IDE, actually
Oct 13 19:19:49 <creationix> heck, you don't even need mojo ;)
Oct 13 19:19:50 <alexfner> your application just won't handle minimizing or mazimizing well
Oct 13 19:19:59 <alexfner> or most other events
Oct 13 19:20:35 <creationix> true
Oct 13 19:20:40 <alexfner> creationix: the thing that I have had trouble with so far is finding a way to make children inherit from parents using constuctor+ prototype
Oct 13 19:20:43 <alexfner> let me give you an example
Oct 13 19:20:49 <creationix> alexfner: oh, that's easy
Oct 13 19:20:58 <t8> Do you think webOS 2.0 will run 1.4.x apps?
Oct 13 19:21:03 <creationix> Child.prototype = Object.create(Parent.prototype); Child.constructor = Child;
Oct 13 19:21:15 <creationix> or Child.prototype.__proto__ = Parent.prototype
Oct 13 19:21:30 <alexfner> who whoa whoa
Oct 13 19:21:36 <alexfner> oh wait
Oct 13 19:21:38 <t8> JavaScript should be rewritten to just drop prototypes
Oct 13 19:21:40 <alexfner> that's not exactly what i mean
Oct 13 19:21:41 <creationix> t8: I'd bet 2.0 will, not sure about after that
Oct 13 19:21:43 <t8> Just like ActionScript 2
Oct 13 19:21:56 * creationix does not work for palm
Oct 13 19:21:58 <t8> I developed several applications for Ares, and made the required version 1.4.5... do you think this is fine?
Oct 13 19:22:16 * creationix also never used area
Oct 13 19:22:17 <t8> I'm not sure if 1.4.5 is used by most people by now, however
Oct 13 19:22:18 <creationix> *ares
Oct 13 19:22:34 <creationix> I finally got 1.4.5 on my att phone, I think it's pushed most everywhere
Oct 13 19:22:42 <t8> Got ya...
Oct 13 19:22:59 <sugardave> t8: 1.4.5 is on every connected webOS device except for one carrier that is still on 1.4.0
Oct 13 19:23:10 <t8> And which carrier is that?
Oct 13 19:23:22 <sugardave> some not-US one
Oct 13 19:23:40 <creationix> alexfner: what did you mean then?
Oct 13 19:23:40 <t8> Well
Oct 13 19:23:46 <t8> I'm releasing all my apps for $0.99
Oct 13 19:24:03 <t8> I figured that after giving it a lot of thought, ads just aren't worth it
Oct 13 19:24:15 <t8> Do you guys read precentral?
Oct 13 19:24:18 <creationix> ads don't make money
Oct 13 19:24:25 <creationix> not enough to matter at least
Oct 13 19:24:34 <creationix> and are very annoying
Oct 13 19:24:35 <t8> They do.. I was making about $400 a day using AdSense mobile for android until they stopped me from using it
Oct 13 19:24:35 <sugardave> don't let doc hear you say that :D
Oct 13 19:24:43 <t8> But I have about 500+ android apps
Oct 13 19:24:59 * sugardave adds t8 to the list.
Oct 13 19:25:06 <alexfner> creationix: http://pastebin.com/WDKhrtWZ
Oct 13 19:25:26 <alexfner> so I wrote an image editor in the browser
Oct 13 19:25:26 <t8> Android is fine, but the app store has some major flaws
Oct 13 19:25:28 <torchie_pre> list?
Oct 13 19:25:32 <torchie_pre> brighthouse labs?
Oct 13 19:25:45 <alexfner> that I stopped working on, because probably around 1/3 of the lines of code were devoted to passing down variables
Oct 13 19:25:51 <sugardave> the contents of the list are known only to me, sorry
Oct 13 19:25:52 <alexfner> I am wondering if you know of a better way to do this
Oct 13 19:26:07 <creationix> alexfner: why are you not putting the setup logic in the constructor?
Oct 13 19:26:41 <t8_> the one thing I don't like is how the webos store has our social security number unhid and in plain view
Oct 13 19:26:44 <t8_> (if i log in)
Oct 13 19:26:55 <alexfner> hrm?
Oct 13 19:27:13 <sugardave> alexfner: wouldn't that be something like this.color = color(arg1, arg2, arg3)?
Oct 13 19:27:17 <creationix> alexfner: so is Main supposed to inherit from color?
Oct 13 19:27:50 <alexfner> oh
Oct 13 19:27:52 <alexfner> no
Oct 13 19:27:52 <sugardave> oh
Oct 13 19:27:58 <creationix> alexfner: I can't see what you're trying to do
Oct 13 19:27:59 <sugardave> I see, I think
Oct 13 19:28:17 <t8_> but yes, you are right creationix... ad supported apps don't make much money
Oct 13 19:28:22 <sugardave> t8: I don't know where you're looking but I can't find my ssn anywhere on my phone
Oct 13 19:28:35 <t8_> sugardave: talking about the palm dev login
Oct 13 19:28:38 <t8_> not phone
Oct 13 19:28:44 <sugardave> okay, tell me mine
Oct 13 19:28:52 <t8_> no, i mean, only when WE log in
Oct 13 19:28:55 <t8_> I can see my own
Oct 13 19:28:57 <t8_> Not yours
Oct 13 19:29:00 <sugardave> okay
Oct 13 19:29:02 <alexfner> creationix: I was just building a complicated object structure
Oct 13 19:29:14 <creationix> alexfner: sure, but I don't see the goal
Oct 13 19:29:24 <sugardave> alexfner: http://webos101.com/Extended_widgets
Oct 13 19:29:29 <alexfner> creationix: I am not sure, I thought it would be simpler than one super large object
Oct 13 19:29:33 <creationix> why store the prototype of color in an instance property of Main
Oct 13 19:29:35 <t8_> when google bought admob, eCPMs went down. quattro wireless was shut down and google adsense is very strict on rules. therefore, there's not much choice but to just sell the app (and make something nice)
Oct 13 19:29:39 <sugardave> this is an example of inheritance, albeit a weak one from when I was just learning
Oct 13 19:29:41 <alexfner> I had shapes, colors, etc.
Oct 13 19:29:52 <alexfner> and it seemed like a better way to abstract them would be to make them their own objects
Oct 13 19:29:55 <creationix> alexfner: do you want mixins?
Oct 13 19:29:56 <alexfner> and then place them inside main
Oct 13 19:30:33 <creationix> if you call setup directly on the prototype then the prototype gets infected with instance data
Oct 13 19:30:40 <creationix> and it's no longer a prototype
Oct 13 19:30:45 <sugardave> well, I guess there's no inheritance in there, but you use those objects to make new ones inside another object
Oct 13 19:30:53 <creationix> you could say this.color = new Color(blah, blah, blah)
Oct 13 19:31:07 <alexfner> creationix: yeah but there is only one instance of color
Oct 13 19:31:15 <alexfner> creationix: i don't need multiple
Oct 13 19:31:27 <alexfner> I was mostly screwing around with javascript and seeing how crazy I could make it
Oct 13 19:31:29 <creationix> if there is only one instance, they don't use constructor+prototype
Oct 13 19:31:33 <alexfner> and I think I succeeded
Oct 13 19:31:40 <alexfner> creationix: ah, duh!
Oct 13 19:31:42 <creationix> just define color = {}
Oct 13 19:31:47 <creationix> and then this.color = color
Oct 13 19:32:17 <creationix> sounds like you want the module pattern
Oct 13 19:32:25 <alexfner> sounds like it indurd
Oct 13 19:32:36 <creationix> it's very close to my factory pattern
Oct 13 19:32:39 <creationix> but meant for singletons
Oct 13 19:32:56 <alexfner> singletons eh?
Oct 13 19:32:59 <creationix> node modules are like the module pattern
Oct 13 19:33:08 <creationix> singleton as in you only want one instance ever
Oct 13 19:33:29 <alexfner> oh well that's not entirely true, I mean who knows.  Some day I might want more than once instance
Oct 13 19:33:33 <alexfner> :D
Oct 13 19:33:58 <creationix> well if you ever want more than one instance, then never call setup on the prototype directly
Oct 13 19:34:06 <creationix> because then the prototype become the instance
Oct 13 19:34:10 <alexfner> heh, I know, I was making a joke!
Oct 13 19:34:14 <creationix> and can't be shared
Oct 13 19:34:23 <alexfner> man my jokes suck
Oct 13 19:34:41 <t8_> yo creationix, have you made anything for webos?
Oct 13 19:34:45 <creationix> not much
Oct 13 19:34:57 <alexfner> This was the joke: "oh well that's not entirely true, I mean who knows. Some day I might want more than once instance"
Oct 13 19:35:03 <alexfner> not the entire thing
Oct 13 19:35:04 <creationix> t8_: http://github.com/creationix/com.creationix.canvasclock
Oct 13 19:35:05 <alexfner> but just that part
Oct 13 19:35:14 <creationix> alexfner: sure :)
Oct 13 19:35:26 <creationix> alexfner: have you seen the module pattern
Oct 13 19:35:33 <alexfner> nein
Oct 13 19:35:40 <t8_> http://www.cyrket.com/p/palm/com.creationix.canvasclock/
Oct 13 19:35:41 <t8_> i like
Oct 13 19:35:58 <alexfner> I'm not familiar with software development patterns.  I mean I've read about many but never implemented them
Oct 13 19:36:02 <creationix> never heard of cyrket, what's that?
Oct 13 19:36:03 <t8_> how did you get away with 1 screenshot?
Oct 13 19:36:05 <t8_> I had to upload 3!
Oct 13 19:36:09 <creationix> it's not in the store
Oct 13 19:36:14 <creationix> no approval needed
Oct 13 19:36:21 <t8_> got it
Oct 13 19:36:22 <halfhalo> dundunDUN
Oct 13 19:36:27 <t8_> webos is awesome
Oct 13 19:36:32 <creationix> also I didn't use mojo
Oct 13 19:36:34 <oil> here here!
Oct 13 19:36:38 <creationix> do I'm pretty sure it would be rejected
Oct 13 19:36:39 <t8_> i just wish it gains traction next year
Oct 13 19:37:29 <alexfner> http://alexhaefner.com/editor-unstable.html
Oct 13 19:37:34 <alexfner> take a look at that javascript!
Oct 13 19:37:41 <alexfner> (HINT: It's ugly!)
Oct 13 19:37:45 <t8_> lol
Oct 13 19:37:53 <creationix> alexfner: maybe later ;)
Oct 13 19:37:55 <alexfner> if you're trying to find controls, they're everywhere
Oct 13 19:38:00 <alexfner> I thought to myself
Oct 13 19:38:00 <t8_> thats pretty neat
Oct 13 19:38:08 <alexfner> what's the simplest way to organize the controls
Oct 13 19:38:10 <alexfner> and then I thought
Oct 13 19:38:15 <alexfner> PUT THEM EVERYWHERE
Oct 13 19:43:08 <creationix> alexfner: http://pastebin.com/8NprVKq5
Oct 13 19:43:14 <creationix> that's one way to do module
Oct 13 19:43:30 <creationix> each "module" has it's own namespace for private and local stuff
Oct 13 19:43:35 <creationix> and you export only what you want exposed
Oct 13 19:44:19 <sugardave> interesting
Oct 13 19:44:37 <sugardave> execute the execution of this function
Oct 13 19:44:48 <creationix> yep, functions create new scope
Oct 13 19:44:56 <creationix> and then just return what you want exposed
Oct 13 19:45:18 <sugardave> it's kind of like what I pasted above, but has that extra closure stuff going on
Oct 13 19:48:12 <creationix> the good and bad of javascript is it's immensely flexible
Oct 13 19:48:20 <creationix> that's why I've been trying to teach people the core ideas
Oct 13 19:48:31 <creationix> so they can understand enough to design whatever pattern they want
Oct 13 19:50:05 <sugardave> I was just pleased I was able to take the example from the book and turn it into something that worked the way I wanted it to :D
Oct 13 19:50:56 <sugardave> ha, I wrote that almost a year ago
Oct 13 20:06:06 <sugardave> fun fact, if you can make your phone display Chicago/GMT as its timezone, and then you try to set it to the real one, Chicago/DST, it won't work!
Oct 13 20:06:23 <sugardave> in code or in the date/time app
Oct 13 20:06:55 * sugardave wonders if he should add that to the bug post or start a new one.
Oct 13 20:11:01 <dawm|laptop> got my pixi working finally, a friend at work had a sim card he found on the ground last week
Oct 13 20:11:19 <sugardave> nice
Oct 13 20:13:48 <t8> whats the other site besides cyrket to view webos apps?
Oct 13 20:14:27 <dawm|laptop> now if i could just disable any phone usage for the sim i'd be happy, i have a feeling its gonna ring.. it said it has 2 voicemails heh
Oct 13 20:14:37 <dawm|laptop> t8, theres myappbox.com i think
Oct 13 20:14:44 <t8> yep, thats it... thanks!
Oct 13 20:14:49 <creationix> dawm|laptop: airplane mode
Oct 13 20:14:56 <creationix> unless you're using the 3g
Oct 13 20:15:02 <dawm|laptop> yeh but that kills the app cat dont it?
Oct 13 20:15:03 <creationix> wifi can be on in airplane mode
Oct 13 20:15:13 <dawm|laptop> oh good, i thought that killed it too
Oct 13 20:15:13 <creationix> nope, you can still use the catalog
Oct 13 20:15:35 <creationix> and it saves battery too
Oct 13 20:15:38 <sugardave> um
Oct 13 20:16:01 <sugardave> I thought airplane mode shut off all the radios
Oct 13 20:16:09 <creationix> it does
Oct 13 20:16:17 <creationix> but you can then turn the wifi and bluetooth back on
Oct 13 20:16:22 <sugardave> then you can selectively turn them back on
Oct 13 20:16:23 <sugardave> yeah
Oct 13 20:16:24 <creationix> there are planes with wifi enabled these days
Oct 13 20:16:34 <dawm|laptop> nice
Oct 13 20:16:37 <dawm|laptop> yeah it worked
Oct 13 20:16:51 <creationix> I'm within wifi 90% of the time
Oct 13 20:16:54 <dawm|laptop> now to redoctor to 1.4.5
Oct 13 20:17:30 <sugardave> I don't fly unless I have to for work and they don't have wifi on international flights
Oct 13 20:17:30 * oil is usually only not on wifi when driving
Oct 13 20:17:33 <sugardave> bastards
Oct 13 20:18:35 <creationix> shudder, international flights
Oct 13 20:18:53 <creationix> I've had a few of those this year
Oct 13 20:19:36 <sugardave> this year has been light, though I think I'm heading to Chile in a couple of weeks
Oct 13 20:20:11 <creationix> direct flight from San Francisco to Germany was "fun"
Oct 13 20:21:12 <sugardave> yeah, I imagine, I pretty much only get sent to London
Oct 13 20:21:41 <creationix> crossing 9 time zones in a single flight is rough
Oct 13 20:22:01 <creationix> it was fun to meet node people in Eurioe though
Oct 13 20:22:09 <creationix> *Europe
Oct 13 20:22:16 <sugardave> that's cool
Oct 13 20:22:54 <creationix> I don't think I've met many people from this room though
Oct 13 20:23:02 <creationix> I should go to a palm event
Oct 13 20:23:07 <t8> come to manhattan
Oct 13 20:23:18 <t8> i think there's somethin down in soho later this yr
Oct 13 20:23:22 <t8> i might peak in
Oct 13 20:23:23 <creationix> t8: I was there last spring when I worked for NYU
Oct 13 20:23:29 <t8> really? good shit
Oct 13 20:23:35 <creationix> stayed with a friend in lower manhattan
Oct 13 20:23:39 <t8> i stayed in the summer housing a couple few years
Oct 13 20:23:39 <t8> yea
Oct 13 20:23:40 <creationix> it was wild
Oct 13 20:23:42 <t8> i live in midtown right now
Oct 13 20:23:50 <t8> 37th, next to times square
Oct 13 20:23:59 <t8> (at work in rockefeller center right now)
Oct 13 20:24:07 <creationix> nice
Oct 13 20:24:30 <t8> do you think the windows phone 7 will be a flop?
Oct 13 20:26:35 <t8> anyone?
Oct 13 20:27:37 <creationix> t8: I hope it will
Oct 13 20:27:59 <t8> why, more competition?
Oct 13 20:28:06 <t8> it seems like on the desktop, microsoft virtually won
Oct 13 20:28:19 <t8> but on mobile, it'll be a few years before we see the actual marketshare of one or another OS win
Oct 13 20:29:36 <creationix> I sad windows took over the netbook market
Oct 13 20:29:47 <creationix> I was hoping for something like webos or android
Oct 13 20:29:59 <t8> really?
Oct 13 20:30:00 <creationix> actually webos on a netbook would be pretty rad
Oct 13 20:30:06 <t8> windows on any desktop will probably win...
Oct 13 20:30:10 <t8> because people are most familiar with it
Oct 13 20:30:19 <creationix> sure, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing
Oct 13 20:30:32 <t8> yea, but.. there's money in making mobile apps now
Oct 13 20:30:34 <maruku> need help from a SDL guru
Oct 13 20:30:37 <t8> not much else... since the desktop war was won
Oct 13 20:31:01 <maruku> I cannot reach a file when trying to load an image with SDL_Image
Oct 13 20:31:52 <maruku> it did not work on the host so I gave up and tries straight on the device
Oct 13 20:31:57 <maruku> but getting the same error
Oct 13 20:32:05 <maruku> any thoughts there?
Oct 13 20:32:13 <alexfner> "One of the reasons that we spend so long waiting on memcached is that we're getting to it over EC2's internal network. EC2's internal network is significantly slower than a physical link because we're sharing it with other customers, and because it goes through EC2's various security and virtualisation layers. "
Oct 13 20:32:20 <alexfner> maruku: a BMP?
Oct 13 20:32:39 <maruku> nope, PNG
Oct 13 20:33:39 <maruku> I'm using xCode
Oct 13 20:33:41 <alexfner> maruku: what are you calling to load the image?
Oct 13 20:34:01 <maruku> IMG_Load(filename);
Oct 13 20:34:16 <sugardave> have we already given up hope that HP is going to put webOS on a netbook?
Oct 13 20:34:24 <maruku> and filename is "Resources/ball000.png"
Oct 13 20:34:38 <alexfner> IMG_Load isn't an sdl function
Oct 13 20:34:44 <alexfner> so did you make it yourself
Oct 13 20:35:19 <maruku> nope
Oct 13 20:35:30 <alexfner> maruku: care to explain what it does?
Oct 13 20:35:32 <maruku> it comes from SDL_image.h
Oct 13 20:35:34 <alexfner> maybe with a pastebin
Oct 13 20:35:36 <alexfner> hmm
Oct 13 20:35:57 <maruku> and it is shiped on the PDK
Oct 13 20:37:05 <alexfner> ah alright
Oct 13 20:37:10 <maruku> you could find the lib on opt/PalmPDK/device/lib and on the host as well
Oct 13 20:37:10 <dawm|laptop> are you using the tiltodemo?
Oct 13 20:37:11 <alexfner> so what happens when you run img_load?
Oct 13 20:37:38 <maruku> I'm getting the message Couldn't open Resources/ball000.png
Oct 13 20:37:57 <alexfner> is the resource in the right folder?
Oct 13 20:38:04 <alexfner> usually it's not pointing to the right folder
Oct 13 20:39:24 <maruku> well, it is at the same level of the executable file
Oct 13 20:39:38 <maruku> I'm quite new with C++
Oct 13 20:40:09 <alexfner> so your executable is here
Oct 13 20:40:09 <dawm|laptop> nice.. i just noticed something
Oct 13 20:40:11 <alexfner> ./
Oct 13 20:40:15 <maruku> I learned it 10 years ago at the school and never use it till now that I want to develop something for my pre
Oct 13 20:40:24 <alexfner> and your image is here ./Resources/ball000.png
Oct 13 20:40:37 <dawm|laptop> the webos doctor for att pixi 1.4.5 has a date for when it was built.. 8/30/10.. which means they've sat on 1.4.5 since then
Oct 13 20:40:39 <alexfner> right?
Oct 13 20:40:45 <maruku> I guess so
Oct 13 20:41:04 <maruku> ./ could be /Documents/development/Testing
Oct 13 20:41:05 <maruku> ?
Oct 13 20:41:20 <alexfner> maruku in xCode your executable is not placed in the same directory as your .cpp file
Oct 13 20:41:24 <maruku> cause there is, more less, where I have the project
Oct 13 20:41:25 <leiru> *yawn*
Oct 13 20:41:37 <alexfner> I'm making a couple of assumptions here, but that is probably your problem
Oct 13 20:41:41 <leiru> i experiment with zepto js for mobile webapps
Oct 13 20:41:46 <alexfner> and?
Oct 13 20:41:48 <leiru> great framework
Oct 13 20:41:49 <alexfner> what happened/
Oct 13 20:41:55 <dawm|laptop> Palm(R) webOS(tm) Doctor (Build Att.242.233 08/30/10 17:49)
Oct 13 20:43:07 <Robdor> maruku: Your path is going to be relative to your executable, so if you are loading "Resources/ball000.png" it is expecting a Resources directory in the same directory as the executable.
Oct 13 20:43:45 <alexfner> Robdor comes in for the sabe
Oct 13 20:43:47 <maruku> Robdor: I have it that way
Oct 13 20:43:47 <alexfner> save*
Oct 13 20:43:55 <Robdor> :)
Oct 13 20:44:08 <maruku> where I have the executable I have the Resources folder
Oct 13 20:44:11 <maruku> and there the image
Oct 13 20:44:20 <alexfner> maruku: yeah but what I'm trying to say is that your executable may be ending up in a different directory than you think
Oct 13 20:44:42 <dawm|laptop> is your executable .app?
Oct 13 20:44:55 <dawm|laptop> aka a bundle
Oct 13 20:45:10 <maruku> I suppose that it is an .app when doing it with xCode
Oct 13 20:45:20 <maruku> but when compiling for the device it is not
Oct 13 20:45:26 <maruku> it is an .o file
Oct 13 20:46:01 <dawm|laptop> k just checking
Oct 13 20:46:23 <Robdor> maruku: Do you only have this problem on the device, or do you have it on the host as well?
Oct 13 20:46:36 <maruku> in both places
Oct 13 20:46:49 <maruku> but on the host I assume cause it is on a bundle
Oct 13 20:46:57 <Robdor> It shouldn't be a bundle
Oct 13 20:47:15 <Robdor> You have to explicitly package a bundle. I don't think that the palm template does that.
Oct 13 20:47:17 <maruku> so that's why I´m getting the error when trying to execute the app with xcode
Oct 13 20:47:24 <dawm|laptop> Robdor: it does
Oct 13 20:47:35 <Robdor> I bet it's because the executable isn't where you think it is in relation to the assets.
Oct 13 20:47:55 <maruku> I think so too
Oct 13 20:48:07 <alexfner> I think so as well
Oct 13 20:48:11 <alexfner> :)
Oct 13 20:48:13 <Robdor> maruku: Do you have an ipk?
Oct 13 20:48:15 <dawm|laptop> me three
Oct 13 20:48:17 <sugardave> agreement all around
Oct 13 20:48:21 <maruku> but Im here for more than 2 hours trying to solve the issue
Oct 13 20:48:27 <maruku> nope, I dont have an ipk
Oct 13 20:48:57 <maruku> when I'm compiling for the device I'm creating the executable, putting all into a folder and copying stright to the device
Oct 13 20:49:27 <Robdor> Are the png's in the same folder as your executable?
Oct 13 20:49:39 <maruku> xcode is so cool for iPhone apps but for another things....
Oct 13 20:50:03 <maruku> the png is on a folder called Resources and it is on the same folder as my exec
Oct 13 20:51:50 <Robdor> maruku: Can we see the code?
Oct 13 20:52:13 <maruku> well it is quite a mess but sure
Oct 13 20:52:55 <maruku> give me a second
Oct 13 20:54:50 <Robdor> alexfner: What kind of game are you making for your PDK tutorial series?
Oct 13 20:54:56 <maruku> http://pastebin.com/PuVpgYkg
Oct 13 20:55:02 <maruku> hope it helps
Oct 13 20:55:54 <maruku> here the load_image function http://pastebin.com/UtTs3df7
Oct 13 20:57:17 <alexfner> Robdor: something simple, I haven't fully fledge that out yet
Oct 13 20:58:15 <alexfner> Robdor: my plan is to make something that give you all the building blocks to make a game, but with a very very tiny concept.  So it will have an example of how to implement scoring, collisions, rounds, but the actual gameplay will be lax, and I want to highlight some art techniques
Oct 13 20:58:18 <alexfner> why do you ask?
Oct 13 20:58:22 <Robdor> maruku: What is the error that you are getting from SDL?
Oct 13 20:58:37 <maruku> Couldn't open Resources/ball000.pngm
Oct 13 20:58:40 <alexfner> creationix: what's the deal with scale for node.js?
Oct 13 20:58:42 <maruku> Couldn't open Resources/ball000.png
Oct 13 20:58:47 <Robdor> alexfner: Sounds cool. I was just curious.
Oct 13 20:58:53 <creationix> alexfner: what do you mean?
Oct 13 20:59:08 <alexfner> creationix: would it be suitable for a tcp server for 10,000 concurrent users?
Oct 13 20:59:15 <creationix> alexfner: probably
Oct 13 20:59:22 <creationix> depends on the exact setup
Oct 13 20:59:45 <creationix> and how expensive the protocol is
Oct 13 21:02:16 <Robdor> maruku: I didn't see anything in the code printing out the SDL error after loading the image, so I wasn't sure if we were just assuming that it couldn't find the image.
Oct 13 21:02:28 <alexfner> 10kb per user per second
Oct 13 21:03:13 <maruku> I'm not printing the message
Oct 13 21:03:30 <maruku> I suppose that SDL_image lib does it
Oct 13 21:04:43 <Robdor> Yep, IMG_GetError
Oct 13 21:06:24 <maruku> :(
Oct 13 21:06:49 <maruku> it desperates the most brave out there
Oct 13 21:06:59 <maruku> hehehe
Oct 13 21:07:49 <creationix> alexfner: not sure, but could probably be handled with just a few load sharing node processes if it's too much for one
Oct 13 21:08:00 <creationix> redis is pretty good for sharing state between them
Oct 13 21:17:01 <dawm|laptop> ooh.. i can just take the sim card out now that the phone has a palm profile
Oct 13 21:17:34 <SineOt> Hmm... Komodo Edit seems really nice. Too bad it's written in XUL though, kind of... Ugly :C
Oct 13 21:17:54 <SineOt> dawm|laptop: yeah, and now that it has a profile you should be able to use the app catalog over wifi too
Oct 13 21:18:10 <dawm|laptop> yeh it works, i yanked the sim and tried already
Oct 13 21:19:18 <creationix> dawm|laptop: yep, that's how I'm using mine
Oct 13 21:19:42 <dawm|laptop> i wish the wifi ssid patch worked quicker
Oct 13 21:20:05 <creationix> dawm|laptop: but even with the sim removed, make sure to turn off the radio via airplane mode to save battery
Oct 13 21:20:33 <creationix> unless you want 911 access always as the ready
Oct 13 21:20:53 <dawm|laptop> nah its a dev phone
Oct 13 21:22:07 <dawm|laptop> ill just keep this sim card handy incase i need it again
Oct 13 21:23:18 <rwhitby> morning
Oct 13 21:23:18 <creationix> dawm|laptop: I keep my sim in a nexus one
Oct 13 21:23:29 <dawm|laptop> i use sprint :P
Oct 13 21:23:40 <creationix> does nexus not support sprint?
Oct 13 21:23:49 <creationix> it halfway supports my att
Oct 13 21:23:53 <sugardave> rwhitby: good morning, I've found other issues with convertDate and I think the world clock needs to be on hold for a bit
Oct 13 21:23:56 <creationix> I only get edge internet
Oct 13 21:23:57 <dawm|laptop> no idea. i have a pre :P
Oct 13 21:24:13 <rwhitby> sugardave: bummer.
Oct 13 21:24:28 <SineOt> Nexus One was going to come to sprint, but then Google killed it
Oct 13 21:24:42 <SineOt> and said "just get an Evo it's a better phone"
Oct 13 21:24:49 <sugardave> rwhitby: yeah, it is, but hopefully they will fix it or another angle will present itself in a later webOS
Oct 13 21:28:21 <SineOt> hm, anyone here use Komodo edit and willing to help me figure out why the webOS plugin keeps saying I -don't- have a webOS project? :c
Oct 13 21:29:56 <Bmyers> yeah that happens
Oct 13 21:33:40 <Bmyers> SineOt:  you can create a new webos project and then copy your source in there to fix it
Oct 13 21:34:09 <SineOt> it looks like just creating a new project then opening my old one again fixes it :I
Oct 13 21:36:08 <SineOt> hm, or not. Still won't let me send the app to the emulator e_e
Oct 13 21:43:17 <SineOt> Yeah, even making a new app via the webOS plugin won't work :<
Oct 13 21:43:26 <SineOt> still won't let me package for emulator/device
Oct 13 21:45:00 <dawm|laptop> interesting, app cat wont work in airplane mode (wo/ sim), as soon as i turn off airplane mode (wo/ sim) app cat works
Oct 13 21:45:15 <dawm|laptop> slightly annoying but not bad
Oct 13 21:57:34 <alexfner> load sharing node processes, he said
Oct 13 21:59:51 <sugardave> ooo, just found something interesting with this tz mess...I might be able to keep it from messing up the phone's display of tz
Oct 13 22:01:27 <alexfner> tz eh?
Oct 13 22:01:40 <sugardave> yes
Oct 13 22:01:41 <SineOt> alexfner: hm?
Oct 13 22:04:16 <alexfner> SineOt: hm/
Oct 13 22:04:34 <SineOt> nevermind, misread
Oct 13 22:06:22 <alexfner> some guy who I have met before called me for a "business opportunity"
Oct 13 22:06:30 <alexfner> he then spent the next hour explaining a pyramid scheme
Oct 13 22:06:40 <alexfner> I yawned really hard
Oct 13 22:08:18 <pygi> :P
Oct 13 22:17:17 <sugardave> alright, I have successfully used the weakness in convertDate to fix the issue it causes
Oct 13 22:17:28 <sugardave> truly, I am Zen
Oct 13 22:21:16 <sugardave> rwhitby: we're getting the band back together
Oct 13 22:21:26 <mbarvian> anyone want to beta test my app?
Oct 13 22:21:29 <SineOt> anyone use Komodo Edit + WebOS plugin, preferably on OSX?
Oct 13 22:21:38 <mbarvian> SineOt: me!
Oct 13 22:21:39 <SineOt> mbarvian: I hope that input I emailed you helped some!
Oct 13 22:21:51 <mbarvian> SineOt: I limited it to 20 :)
Oct 13 22:21:52 <SineOt> mbarvian: What version of Komodo Edit are you using?
Oct 13 22:21:58 <mbarvian> SineOt: 5
Oct 13 22:22:27 <SineOt> Hm. Then I suppose the webOS plugin is borkborked under 6
Oct 13 22:22:46 <mbarvian> SineOt: which version are you trying on?
Oct 13 22:22:51 <SineOt> 6
Oct 13 22:23:07 <mbarvian> SineOt: oh.  I think the developer said that it wasn't compatible above 5
Oct 13 22:23:14 <mbarvian> SineOt: is 6 out of beta?
Oct 13 22:23:30 <SineOt> apparently! That's what the site directs you straight towards
Oct 13 22:26:44 <mbarvian> ah
Oct 13 22:28:05 <SineOt> ... and 5 is apparently no longer anywhere on the site :c
Oct 13 22:29:11 <SineOt> this just got about a billion times more frustrating c_c
Oct 13 22:30:03 <rwhitby> sugardave: awesome
Oct 13 22:30:32 <sugardave> rwhitby: are you tired of the bummer/awesome roller-coaster ride yet? :D
Oct 13 22:30:57 <rwhitby> sugardave: no, that's why I got someone else to do it - I can just watch ;)
Oct 13 22:31:01 <sugardave> haha
Oct 13 22:31:36 <sugardave> rwhitby: I accused you of planning this sick joke to see how many devs you could sucker into insanity
Oct 13 22:31:41 <SineOt> komodo 6 left beta a week ago :I
Oct 13 22:35:15 <SineOt> well then, for anyone curious: the webOS extension does not seem to work under Komodo 6
Oct 13 22:35:46 <rwhitby> sugardave: I saw that accusation.  I wish I was that cunning.
Oct 13 22:35:55 <sugardave> heh
Oct 13 22:35:56 <mbarvian> SineOt: what are you using now?
Oct 13 22:36:09 <SineOt> Going to downgrade to 5.2.4 and give it another shot
Oct 13 22:37:05 <mbarvian> SineOt: that's what I'm on and it runs flawlessly
Oct 13 22:41:06 <SineOt> Templarian: don't know if you're still supporting it or not, but... Your Komodo webOS plugin breaks under Komodo Edit 6. Just keeps everything greyed out.
Oct 13 22:45:57 <Templarian> SineOt: it's because they removed the entire project managment code and replaced it.
Oct 13 22:46:10 <SineOt> Ah. Yeah, that'd do it x)
Oct 13 22:47:26 <Templarian> Yea, I've kind of moved to windows phone 7... have fun with eclipse? :P
Oct 13 22:48:03 <sugardave> heh
Oct 13 22:48:18 * Templarian hugs visual studio
Oct 13 22:48:45 * sugardave tries to muster a Terminator voice: "You'll be back."
Oct 13 23:02:39 * haeffb has fun with eclipse!
Oct 13 23:02:59 <sugardave> we get along
Oct 13 23:03:45 <Loudergood> hmm..so I get a second puck and I still can't get it to stay charging...
Oct 13 23:03:54 <Loudergood> also... netbeans ;)
Oct 13 23:05:01 <sugardave> I've heard of netbeans before, but I don't know java so it means nothing to me
Oct 13 23:05:33 <Loudergood> it actually supports a decent number of languages out of the box
Oct 13 23:10:43 <Bmyers> Templarian:  can you devel for w7 phones for free?
Oct 13 23:12:37 <Templarian> All the tools are free and you don't have to pay the 100 until you submit your first application (and the tools are amazing)..
Oct 13 23:13:11 <Nyceane> ello =)
Oct 13 23:13:15 <Bmyers> i am on a mac. i wonder if there is a mac version
Oct 13 23:13:30 <SineOt> ahah, no :p
Oct 13 23:13:41 <sugardave> No Visual Studio for OSX? :D
Oct 13 23:13:43 <Templarian> http://buswatchapp.com/ My friends application I'm doing a site for (still a WIP). Press 1-9 on your keyboard.
Oct 13 23:13:58 <Bmyers> imagine my surprise
Oct 13 23:14:04 <Templarian> Bmyers: we have a few iOS developers workin on applications.
Oct 13 23:14:07 <SineOt> can you really not load images from scene HTML? :C
Oct 13 23:14:30 <Nyceane> Templarian, how much do you charge for website?
Oct 13 23:14:34 <mbarvian> SineOt: yes you should be able to?
Oct 13 23:14:59 <sugardave> SineOt: yes, you can
Oct 13 23:15:02 <Templarian> Nyceane: This is a template I'm making and selling for 60usd (mini cms).
Oct 13 23:15:03 <Bmyers> no problem. i can do both w/ parallels
Oct 13 23:15:19 <sugardave> Templarian: nice
Oct 13 23:15:29 <Templarian> The keyboard stuff is all for the demo mode of it.
Oct 13 23:15:47 <SineOt> ah, that's why: I was ../ it to get it stepped back to the right directory
Oct 13 23:16:14 <SineOt> when in reality, you... don't have to, it dicks with it magically so your html sees itself running from the root directory :x
Oct 13 23:16:54 <sugardave> app is root
Oct 13 23:17:25 <SineOt> I was stepping it back from the /views/main/ folder in the HTML
Oct 13 23:17:48 * SineOt has a bunch of SVN commits that say "fixed some really stupid stuff"
Oct 13 23:18:14 <sugardave> yeah, screw that...put them in images dir and use images/path/file or ../images/path/file in your .css
Oct 13 23:18:56 <SineOt> yeah, that's what I'm doing now and it works fine
Oct 13 23:19:10 <dohtem> Templarian: you do wp7 dev?
Oct 13 23:20:34 <Templarian> dohtem: Yea, I won't have an application for launch. Spending time helping others with marketing.
Oct 13 23:20:59 <dohtem> will you be attending any of the launch events?
Oct 13 23:21:00 <Templarian> dohtem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weTCT0v1Nps is the most I've messed around so far.
Oct 13 23:21:37 <Templarian> dohtem: My friend is presenting his Bus Watch application in chicago on the 19th. They moved the date so I can't go.
Oct 13 23:22:29 <Templarian> I was planning to go even had arragments setup, but yea.
Oct 13 23:22:48 <dohtem> bummer
Oct 13 23:23:13 <dohtem> I registered for one.  Gotta take time off work to go
Oct 13 23:23:40 <Templarian> Where at?
Oct 13 23:23:53 <dohtem> SF
Oct 13 23:23:57 <dohtem> on the 20th
Oct 13 23:23:59 <Templarian> That should be large.
Oct 13 23:24:53 <Bmyers> nazis.. m$ says i need vista or w7 to devel for w7. they are as bad as mac
Oct 13 23:25:20 <Templarian> Bmyers: It's the DirectX 10 requirement. It uses Direct3D 11 to render.
Oct 13 23:26:03 <Templarian> Bmyers: also iOS requires an entire computer, not the same thing at all. :P
Oct 13 23:26:21 <dohtem> Templarian: you get a dev account with them yet?
Oct 13 23:26:54 <Templarian> Yea. But no reason to pay until I submit my first application (which I think I get for free with dreamspark).
Oct 13 23:27:42 <Templarian> A lot of people I know have early submission access so could have got it also.
Oct 13 23:27:59 <dohtem> I thought that closed already
Oct 13 23:28:12 <dohtem> and everything they get now wont make it in for launch
Oct 13 23:28:15 <Templarian> Yea it the last ones were given out the other day.
Oct 13 23:28:36 <Templarian> Last day was yesterday my friend waited till the last minute.
Oct 13 23:30:14 <Templarian> (it's not a big deal for him of course since it's an application only useful in chicago, so he will be submitting v1.1)
Oct 13 23:31:20 <Templarian> dohtem: definitely find time to develope some with it. You will find it way smoother than webOS (no offense guys).
Oct 13 23:31:26 <dohtem> I gotta install the RTW tools and play around with it so I'm not a total noob next week
Oct 13 23:32:00 <dohtem> heh, I've done some messing around in Silverlight.  You dont have to convince me
Oct 13 23:32:04 <Templarian> Expression Blend makes a lot of the stuff a single gui click like navigation etc.
Oct 13 23:32:13 <dohtem> but webOS isnt that hard
Oct 13 23:32:30 <t8> quick help!
Oct 13 23:32:38 <t8> is there a way to get the index.html to direct automatically to the main-view?
Oct 13 23:32:46 <Templarian> Nah, but comparision wise it requires a lot more code.
Oct 13 23:33:42 <dohtem> t8: in your stage assistant, push your first scene
Oct 13 23:34:01 <t8> ok, great thanks
Oct 13 23:34:03 <t8> antoehr question
Oct 13 23:34:13 <t8> i have 8 scenes, but only the main scenes loads first
Oct 13 23:34:24 <t8> should I let the sources.json contain all the scenes?
Oct 13 23:35:05 <dohtem> scenes and respective assistants
Oct 13 23:35:43 <t8> ok
Oct 13 23:35:53 <dohtem> like so - http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1795
Oct 13 23:35:59 <t8> great
Oct 13 23:36:28 <t8> what is an app assitant?
Oct 13 23:36:34 <t8> i don't have one, but it seems like it's not needed
Oct 13 23:36:40 <oil> the one assistant to rule them all
Oct 13 23:36:45 <dohtem> ^
Oct 13 23:36:48 <oil> lol
Oct 13 23:37:07 <mbarvian> anyone want to beta test? :) sorry if I'm being annoying.  I'm about to publish it but want some last-minute feedback :D
Oct 13 23:37:11 <t8> lol
Oct 13 23:37:14 <t8> i don't have one...
Oct 13 23:37:22 <dohtem> you can stick with a stage assistant and scene assistants
Oct 13 23:37:42 <t8> well, my stage assistant has itself pushing the main scene, but it stops at the index.html.. hmm any ideas?
Oct 13 23:37:54 <dohtem> ?
Oct 13 23:37:59 <t8> this.controller.pushScene
Oct 13 23:38:31 <t8> if I run in Ares from my main scene, everything works great
Oct 13 23:43:11 <t8> hhmm
Oct 13 23:47:22 <t8> fixed it
Oct 13 23:47:36 <t8> Next question
Oct 13 23:47:40 <t8> Do we need a back button in our app?
Oct 13 23:47:52 <t8> Or can we rely on the user's back button?
Oct 13 23:49:40 <SineOt> I think the UI guidelines say to avoid back buttons
Oct 13 23:51:06 <t8> got it
Oct 13 23:51:21 <rwhitby> back buttons are for iphone apps ;)
Oct 13 23:52:14 <SineOt> I'll admit to trying to do a back gesture on an iPhone a few times ;P
Oct 14 00:00:10 <techrush> <SineOt> I'll admit to trying to do a back gesture on an iPhone a few times ;P
Oct 14 00:00:15 <techrush> everytime i pickup my roomates i phone i do that
Oct 14 00:00:31 <techrush> im always like wtf i have to look over the whole ui for a simple back button ????
Oct 14 00:00:32 <techrush> BAH!
Oct 14 00:21:09 <mbarvian> they're thinking behind it is actually pretty solid, as you're always drilling in apps and going back
Oct 14 00:21:15 <mbarvian> can't wait till I get my pre plus :D
Oct 14 00:23:36 <SineOt> I can't wait to hear back about the Pre Plus xP
Oct 14 00:25:50 <sugardave> Tibfib: ping
Oct 14 00:27:08 <Nyceane> SineOt, your developer device?
Oct 14 00:27:27 <SineOt> Yeah, I emailed about one uh... 14 days ago! P:
Oct 14 00:27:52 <Nyceane> did they email you that they are gona mail it out?
Oct 14 00:28:45 <SineOt> I haven't received -anything-
Oct 14 00:32:26 <sugardave> Tibfib: disregard
Oct 14 00:33:16 <SineOt> Nyceane: So I've basically been in the dark for 2 weeks
Oct 14 00:37:22 <mbarvian> does anyone have a website for their app?
Oct 14 00:38:30 <mbarvian> SineOt: how fast was Weight Tracker when you tested it (launch times, switching scenes, etc)? :)
Oct 14 00:38:51 <SineOt> now that I wasn't checking! but it seemed pretty zippy
Oct 14 00:39:32 <mbarvian> SineOt: cool just making sure :)
Oct 14 00:39:48 <bnceo> anybody gong to Palm Dev Day next month?
Oct 14 00:40:31 <mbarvian> does anyone have any suggestions to what I could add to my website? :)
Oct 14 00:40:36 <mbarvian> http://www.http://weighttrackerapp.com/
Oct 14 00:40:39 <mbarvian> *http://weighttrackerapp.com/
Oct 14 00:41:41 <Nyceane> that's your app?
Oct 14 00:42:02 <mbarvian> Nyceane: yes
Oct 14 00:42:17 <Nyceane> mbarvian, have you figured out a way where user doesn't need to input information?
Oct 14 00:42:23 <Nyceane> automatic...
Oct 14 00:42:37 <mbarvian> Nyceane: you mean, just entering their new weight?
Oct 14 00:42:38 <Nyceane> at health 2.0, I saw some people were able to input information from wii board
Oct 14 00:42:41 <Nyceane> yah
Oct 14 00:42:58 <mbarvian> Nyceane: kind of.  I'm playing around with it
Oct 14 00:42:58 <Nyceane> so this way its automatic rather than inputting, inputting is just too much work, really nice site design tho
Oct 14 00:43:05 <mbarvian> Nyceane: thanks! :D
Oct 14 00:43:24 <Nyceane> did you make that site yourself?
Oct 14 00:43:34 <mbarvian> a wii board? wow.  and yes I did.  I did all of it yesterday :)
Oct 14 00:43:52 <Nyceane> nice, do you freelance other people's site?
Oct 14 00:44:00 <Nyceane> I can use some help on making site for my apps lol =)
Oct 14 00:44:03 <mbarvian> Nyceane: I do yes
Oct 14 00:44:06 <mbarvian> :)
Oct 14 00:44:11 <Nyceane> how much do you charge?
Oct 14 00:44:20 <Nyceane> my current site is at http://www.ipickupsports.com
Oct 14 00:44:42 <mbarvian> Nyceane: depends on the project.  I'd rather not say out loud lol
Oct 14 00:44:47 <mbarvian> Nyceane: nice site ;)
Oct 14 00:45:05 <Nyceane> err =|  not nice enough to display phones and web capability
Oct 14 00:45:09 <Nyceane> was thinking about seperating them
Oct 14 00:45:13 <mbarvian> ah
Oct 14 00:45:23 <Nyceane> so i'd click on a link and it takes to a site like yours
Oct 14 00:45:36 <Nyceane> thats for the phone, and main site will just focus on the rest =)
Oct 14 00:45:53 <mbarvian> Nyceane: ah I see
Oct 14 00:46:09 <mbarvian> Nyceane: so you want the app and the game seperated? :)
Oct 14 00:46:22 <Nyceane> no, just display of the apps seperated
Oct 14 00:46:33 <Nyceane> maybe on the bottom, i dont know, i am not a designer lol
Oct 14 00:46:35 <Nyceane> and i'd need time =0
Oct 14 00:46:47 <mbarvian> Nyceane: I see
Oct 14 00:47:03 <mbarvian> Nyceane: did you do your current site?
Oct 14 00:47:16 <Nyceane> no, a friend helped out
Oct 14 00:47:22 <Nyceane> i actually ripped it from my other site
Oct 14 00:47:26 <Nyceane> http://www.earnthestars.com
Oct 14 00:49:43 <JenP> hi all!
Oct 14 00:49:50 <Nyceane> let me bookmark your site, I'll use it as a guideline =)
Oct 14 00:49:54 <Nyceane> hi JenP
Oct 14 00:50:00 <Nyceane> miss me already?
Oct 14 00:50:06 <JenP> you know it....
Oct 14 00:50:43 <JenP> how is your day?
Oct 14 00:51:05 <Nyceane> pretty good, I wont be working here in 2 weeks and 2 days, so nothing really bothers me anymore =)
Oct 14 00:51:24 <Nyceane> but then again, I will be further away from you =(
Oct 14 00:51:27 <JenP> where do you work?
Oct 14 00:51:32 <Nyceane> which makes me sad to see us being apart
Oct 14 00:51:35 <Nyceane> Los Angeles
Oct 14 00:51:40 <JenP> lol what place?
Oct 14 00:51:49 <mbarvian> Nyceane: earnthestars looks real nice ;)
Oct 14 00:51:56 <Nyceane> Korea Town
Oct 14 00:52:05 <JenP> mmm yummy
Oct 14 00:52:14 <JenP> so where are you moving to?
Oct 14 00:52:21 <Nyceane> SF
Oct 14 00:52:50 <JenP> oh i love it up there. worse part of SD is I can't wear all my suit peices...just too hot
Oct 14 00:54:57 <Nyceane> I like to see you not wearing all your suit piece
Oct 14 00:55:06 <Nyceane> makes me think about all the things I can do =)
Oct 14 00:55:32 <JenP> oh dear....you must be very bored at work
Oct 14 00:56:17 <Nyceane> talking to you makes my day,  a date with you would make my life =)
Oct 14 00:56:41 <JenP> lol. you say that to all the girls...
Oct 14 00:56:53 <Nyceane> yes, but to you i actually mean it ;)
Oct 14 00:57:00 <JenP> lol
Oct 14 00:57:37 <Nyceane> assuming you like WebOS that is =)
Oct 14 01:36:33 <haeffb> mbarvian: Like the website. Very nice.
Oct 14 01:36:47 <mbarvian> haeffb: thanks a lot man!
Oct 14 01:38:07 <JenP> hi haeffb!
Oct 14 01:38:16 <JenP> and mbarvian
Oct 14 01:38:26 <mbarvian> JenP: hi
Oct 14 01:38:42 <haeffb> hi JenP.
Oct 14 01:38:55 <haeffb> staying clear of Nyceane lately?
Oct 14 01:39:14 <JenP> smiles...i believe he's left
Oct 14 01:39:34 <JenP> how are you?
Oct 14 01:43:17 <JenP> the weather app got in the catalog!
Oct 14 01:43:40 <rwhitby> JenP: have you checked out version 1.0.2 of Preware Homebrew Documentation in the app catalog today?
Oct 14 01:43:58 <JenP> no sorry i haven't
Oct 14 01:44:09 <JenP> but i saw it was up there
Oct 14 01:44:19 <JenP> how's it being received?
Oct 14 01:45:18 <rwhitby> #39 on the Hottest Apps list in the app catalog ;)
Oct 14 01:45:26 <halfhalo> nice!
Oct 14 01:45:45 <JenP> very cool!
Oct 14 01:46:09 <rwhitby> oh wow, another 200 downloads since I checked this morning
Oct 14 01:46:40 <JenP> who did "I love homebrew"?
Oct 14 01:47:17 <rwhitby> another unrelated guy
Oct 14 01:47:55 <JenP> ah thanks for naming me in the credits...although i don't know how much i contributed.
Oct 14 01:48:00 <rwhitby> the more stuff talking about homebrew in the app catalog the better in my opinion
Oct 14 01:48:13 <rwhitby> JenP: it was not the amount, it was the timing ;)
Oct 14 01:48:23 <JenP> lol
Oct 14 01:48:33 * halfhalo would like to see a homebrew showcase application in the appcat
Oct 14 01:48:35 <JenP> i like the instruction set up. really nice
Oct 14 01:48:42 <rwhitby> I always say that there's always enough credit for everyone to get 50%
Oct 14 01:49:37 <rwhitby> JenP: at some point I hope to work out how to easily have in-line mojo widgets in the existing topic pages, so that I can add some more levels of hierarchy and inter-page linking
Oct 14 01:49:38 <haeffb> JenP: doing well. Got inlaws coming for the weekend, so...there's that.
Oct 14 01:50:12 <rwhitby> JenP: all of the topic scenes are generated on the fly, rather than hard-coding them
Oct 14 01:50:25 <JenP> rwhitby: cool.  Yeah I'm seeing that. Really nice.
Oct 14 01:50:36 <JenP> haeffb: is it fun when inlaws come?
Oct 14 01:50:53 <rwhitby> once there's lots more content in there, the pop-out screens will become more important
Oct 14 01:51:05 <rwhitby> and that should work well with webOS 2.0 stacks :)
Oct 14 01:51:11 <haeffb> usually it is, yes.
Oct 14 01:51:24 <JenP> oh...you should make videos tutorials too.
Oct 14 01:51:31 <alexfner> you know what else will work well with webOS 2.0 stacks?
Oct 14 01:51:34 <JenP> haeffb: then I'm happy for you
Oct 14 01:51:35 <alexfner> Pancakes!
Oct 14 01:51:35 <alexfner> HA HA H HA
Oct 14 01:51:39 <haeffb> hmmm...MyApps page has changed
Oct 14 01:51:47 <alexfner> oh man haha ha hahah, too funny
Oct 14 01:52:47 <rwhitby> hmm - who's the My webOS Apps dev?
Oct 14 01:53:14 <JenP> shane osullivan i think
Oct 14 01:55:08 <JenP> rod i really like how you guys did the graphs in govnah
Oct 14 01:56:40 <rwhitby> JenP: that's oil awesomeness
Oct 14 01:56:51 <JenP> it is awesome
Oct 14 01:57:50 <mbarvian> oil
Oct 14 01:58:00 <mbarvian> *
Oct 14 01:58:07 <halfhalo> he be crazy
Oct 14 01:58:11 <mbarvian> oil: how DID you do the graphs? just comparing my method with yours :)
Oct 14 01:58:31 * oil thinks the code is ugly, do not look at it :/
Oct 14 01:58:35 <JenP> oil needs to write a tutorial on how he did the graphs...cause they're just so pretty
Oct 14 01:58:37 <oil> lol
Oct 14 01:58:46 <oil> its a canvas tag in each row
Oct 14 01:58:52 <mbarvian> oil: I did mine with trig functions.  what about you?
Oct 14 01:58:58 <oil> i suck at math
Oct 14 01:59:01 <alexfner> show me the graphs
Oct 14 01:59:03 <mbarvian> oil: ah I see
Oct 14 01:59:06 <oil> lol
Oct 14 01:59:06 <alexfner> I will be the ultimate judge of the craphs
Oct 14 01:59:13 <mbarvian> lol
Oct 14 01:59:27 <alexfner> and I will condemn you if the craphs, cracphs, graphs, are not acceptable
Oct 14 01:59:48 <mbarvian> oil: they do look nice though ;)
Oct 14 02:00:10 <oil> http://www.webos-internals.org/images/0/0b/Govnah_themes.png
Oct 14 02:00:23 <oil> old screenshot is old
Oct 14 02:00:33 <halfhalo> lol
Oct 14 02:00:35 <oil> but, they look the same
Oct 14 02:00:39 <halfhalo> new screenshot needed then
Oct 14 02:00:42 <mbarvian> oil: i was unaware you could change the background of a list row?
Oct 14 02:00:50 <oil> its not a list widget
Oct 14 02:00:57 <oil> the rows are static in the html
Oct 14 02:00:58 <mbarvian> oh, it just looks like one?
Oct 14 02:01:00 <oil> well, mostly
Oct 14 02:01:01 <mbarvian> ah
Oct 14 02:01:31 <mbarvian> oil: did you do all the coding?
Oct 14 02:01:35 <oil> i originally planned a larger version
Oct 14 02:01:36 <mbarvian> oil: for this app?
Oct 14 02:01:47 <oil> with grids/ticks/pinching/etc
Oct 14 02:02:03 <oil> but, it hasn't happened yet, lol
Oct 14 02:02:12 <oil> not all
Oct 14 02:02:20 <oil> most of the mojo
Oct 14 02:02:20 <rwhitby> oil did at least 80%-90% of Govnah mojo
Oct 14 02:02:31 <rwhitby> the rest was cut and paste by me :)
Oct 14 02:02:34 <oil> rwhitby did service
Oct 14 02:02:42 <mbarvian> oil: just curious, how long did it take you? :)
Oct 14 02:02:44 <oil> that lets it actually change stuff
Oct 14 02:02:55 <oil> idk
Oct 14 02:02:59 * oil looks for when first commit was
Oct 14 02:03:16 <mbarvian> oil: ballpark?
Oct 14 02:03:21 <rwhitby> http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/govnah.git;a=shortlog;pg=2
Oct 14 02:03:25 <oil> 2010-04-15 is when we started on govnah
Oct 14 02:03:40 <mbarvian> oil: when did you finish?
Oct 14 02:03:47 <rwhitby> I did the service on the 20th
Oct 14 02:03:50 <oil> its at version 0.7.2?
Oct 14 02:04:07 <oil> i think its funny the first thing committed was the icon
Oct 14 02:04:17 <rwhitby> looks like it was working on the 22nd
Oct 14 02:04:21 <oil> which was originally completely different
Oct 14 02:04:21 <oil> lol
Oct 14 02:04:33 <oil> oh, the first main scene graph
Oct 14 02:04:36 <oil> that had pinching
Oct 14 02:04:37 <oil> haha
Oct 14 02:04:46 <mbarvian> is it possible to listen to pinching?
Oct 14 02:05:01 <mbarvian> btw, on a side note, did you see that Apple was granted limited patent on pinch-to-zoom?
Oct 14 02:05:05 <oil> yes
Oct 14 02:05:15 <rwhitby> mbarvian: all the code is in that git repo, including all the history of all the code
Oct 14 02:05:16 <oil> to the first question
Oct 14 02:05:27 <mbarvian> oil: thanks I'll have a looksee :)
Oct 14 02:05:38 <oil> the current version doesn't have it though i dont think
Oct 14 02:05:54 <oil> its only back in the old version
Oct 14 02:06:21 <oil> but it mostly worked pretty good :)
Oct 14 02:07:10 <mbarvian> oil: can you actually track the fingers and respond, or just listen until after the gesture is complete?
Oct 14 02:07:28 <oil> you can read a scale variable
Oct 14 02:07:38 <mbarvian> oil: is the scale variable updated in real time?
Oct 14 02:07:46 <oil> if you listen to the right thing
Oct 14 02:08:17 <oil> gesturestart, change, and gestureend
Oct 14 02:08:24 <oil> gesturechange*
Oct 14 02:08:28 <mbarvian> cool
Oct 14 02:08:29 <mbarvian> didn't know
Oct 14 02:08:31 <mbarvian> good to know
Oct 14 02:08:37 <mbarvian> oil: do you do any pdk coding as well?
Oct 14 02:08:47 <mbarvian> oil: sorry for all the questions
Oct 14 02:08:48 <oil> no
Oct 14 02:08:51 <oil> just mojo
Oct 14 02:08:58 <mbarvian> oil: cool me too
Oct 14 02:09:05 <mbarvian> oil: I love javascript :D
Oct 14 02:09:28 <mbarvian> makes so much more sense to me than C
Oct 14 02:09:52 <mbarvian> oil: have you done any development for other platforms? like iOS with titanium?
Oct 14 02:09:59 <oil> no
Oct 14 02:10:10 <mbarvian> oil: I plan on it.  just wanted to know if you had tried
Oct 14 02:11:48 <mbarvian> peace
Oct 14 02:48:40 <haeffb> oil: do you have any cookies?
Oct 14 02:48:48 <oil> yes
Oct 14 02:48:58 <haeffb> cool. me too. wife made cookies tonight.
Oct 14 02:49:34 <oil> some large cookie making machine in a factory made mine
Oct 14 02:49:45 <haeffb> I would like to write an app that has graphs.
Oct 14 02:49:49 <oil> most likely including a bunch of conveyor belts
Oct 14 02:49:53 <haeffb> Maybe a cookie tracking app.
Oct 14 02:50:01 <haeffb> cookies per month
Oct 14 02:50:15 <rwhitby> cookie consumption collator
Oct 14 02:50:40 <haeffb> when I say "made" I mean broke the refrigerated dough into pieces and put them on a baking sheet.
Oct 14 02:50:53 <oil> haeffb: thats about what the big machine did
Oct 14 02:51:00 <oil> but it only took 0.8 seconds for them to make it
Oct 14 02:51:13 <haeffb> I like graphs and I like cookies. Seems a natural fit to combine them into an app.
Oct 14 02:51:22 <oil> good luck
Oct 14 02:52:56 <haeffb> maybe sugardave will write a CookieTime app.
Oct 14 02:55:53 <summatusmentis> if my pre isn't vibrating, what does that mean?
Oct 14 02:56:09 <summatusmentis> is it possible I installed something that would make it not vibrate for text messages?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 14 02:59:57 2010