**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 24 02:59:58 2010
Oct 24 03:06:24 <nick_oak> I want 2.0 :(
Oct 24 03:11:39 <maik> the first rule about 2.0 is you don't talk about 2.0
Oct 24 03:12:24 <CTLAdvance> well
Oct 24 03:12:30 <CTLAdvance> one can say they want it
Oct 24 03:12:57 <CTLAdvance> :)
Oct 24 03:18:54 <CTLAdvance> anyone familiar with the js audio object?
Oct 24 03:32:36 <nick_oak> Can I talk about 3.0?
Oct 24 03:33:22 <Deihmos> why can't you talk about 2.0
Oct 24 03:35:06 <CTLAdvance> You cant talk about developing for it as its still under NDA
Oct 24 03:35:55 <phil_bw> so uh, any developers here writing OpenGL stuff with the PDK?
Oct 24 03:50:40 <Deihmos> how can it be under NDA if there is already a phone out with it
Oct 24 03:50:51 <CTLAdvance> development for it is under NDA
Oct 24 03:51:07 <CTLAdvance> Palm makes the rules
Oct 24 03:51:27 <CTLAdvance> You can talk about the os, just not developing for it at this point
Oct 24 03:52:15 <sugardave> phil_bw is like a lone wanderer in the desert
Oct 24 03:52:30 <phil_bw> haha
Oct 24 03:52:34 <phil_bw> seems that way
Oct 24 03:52:45 <sugardave> sorry :(
Oct 24 03:52:57 * oil has been playing new vegas and feels phil_bws pain
Oct 24 03:53:28 <oil> (about wandering in the desert that is)
Oct 24 03:53:34 <sugardave> haha
Oct 24 03:53:48 <phil_bw> well better wander off and clean my kitchen...
Oct 24 03:53:51 * phil_bw wanders off
Oct 24 03:53:59 * phil_bw runs into a camel
Oct 24 03:54:05 * phil_bw wanders towards the kitchen
Oct 24 03:56:04 <dkirker> Must be a mirage kitchen...
Oct 24 04:02:01 <torchie> AAAAA
Oct 24 04:08:35 * phil_bw wanders back
Oct 24 04:11:59 <phil_bw> bloody orthographic projections....
Oct 24 04:15:00 <rwhitby> Deihmos: actually, there has not been a report of anyone other than a reviewer having a Pre 2 yet.  And the reviewers are unable to access the phone using the current public SDK. So still no-one has access to 2.0 outside of NDA until we find a public webOS 2.0 Doctor or Palm releases the public 2.0 SDK.
Oct 24 04:16:21 <Deihmos> i thought it was released in france unless no one bought it
Oct 24 04:18:26 <torchie> how about some webos 2.0 sprint :D
Oct 24 04:21:31 <nick_oak> I don't know how to feel about the palm pre 2
Oct 24 04:22:29 <haeffb> sugardave: Tigers win.
Oct 24 04:29:46 <torchie> the palm pre 2 - it doesn't have a gyroscope.
Oct 24 04:29:51 <torchie> no sale.
Oct 24 04:29:59 <haeffb> no gyroscope!?!?!?!?
Oct 24 04:30:07 <torchie> no
Oct 24 04:30:09 <torchie> gyr
Oct 24 04:30:12 <torchie> gyroscope.
Oct 24 04:30:46 <dkarapet> anyone else notice disappearing canvas elements on orientation changes
Oct 24 04:41:27 <xbonesx> I have been trying to figure out how to re-package this theme, i have edited the contents of the data.tar.gz (which contains all the pictures and patches that will be applied to the theme) but i cant figure out how to turn the folder into an installable ipk without it editing previously made files with in the control.tar.gz file??? help please?
Oct 24 04:46:20 <xbonesx> i tried taking this script from url that rwhitby gave me put the script doesnt work for me...
Oct 24 04:46:34 <xbonesx> http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=toolchain/ipkg-utils/ipkg-build;h=3f9ec9455b0a72fa5834cd8457441d9b57fc6326;hb=HEAD
Oct 24 04:48:06 <rwhitby> xbonesx: have you run a shell script on your machine before?
Oct 24 04:48:36 <rwhitby> (I'm assuming you're using a Linux machine, and that you know how to use the Linux command line)
Oct 24 04:49:08 <xbonesx> ya i believe so but i never actually understood it, i had to make one to have my ndiswrapper load before ssb was causing complications on boot for my wireless device
Oct 24 04:49:48 <xbonesx> i've studied a few things with the terminal and can move in and out of things pretty easy, but using specific things i
Oct 24 04:49:53 <xbonesx> im still fresh
Oct 24 04:50:28 <rwhitby> do you know about $PATH, and how to run a script in the current directory if the current directory is not on your $PATH ?
Oct 24 04:50:31 <xbonesx> i believe i need to chmod the script correct? rwhitby?
Oct 24 04:50:53 <xbonesx> well i can just goto that directory, cant i?
Oct 24 04:51:21 <xbonesx> cuz i have the script and the folder being ipk'd in the same directory, for easy use
Oct 24 04:52:14 <xbonesx> the script needs to be "chmod" doesnt it? but i dont know exactly what it needs to be
Oct 24 04:52:32 <xbonesx> just chmod +x, right?
Oct 24 04:52:45 <xbonesx> or chmod 755?
Oct 24 04:55:11 <xbonesx> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=3XUSu9FT
Oct 24 04:55:51 <xbonesx> i choose to have it executable from the properties GUI of the file on gnome, which essentially "chmod" it
Oct 24 04:56:09 <xbonesx> but it still doesnt work
Oct 24 04:57:00 <xbonesx> rwhitby ?
Oct 24 04:57:09 <xbonesx> sry im sure your probably busy...
Oct 24 04:57:29 <dkarapet> anyone else notice disappearing canvas elements on orientation changes
Oct 24 05:01:28 <rwhitby> xbonesx: ./script
Oct 24 05:02:51 <xbonesx> so, './script ipkg-build.sh <filename>' ?
Oct 24 05:04:14 <xbonesx> nvm, ./ipkg-build.sh <filename>
Oct 24 05:04:48 <xbonesx> but no im getting an error saying their is no control, but there most certainly is... rwhitby ?
Oct 24 05:04:53 <xbonesx> now*
Oct 24 05:05:47 <xbonesx> do i need to run the script like so, './ipkg-build.sh control.tar.gz data.tar.gz debian-binary' ?
Oct 24 05:14:33 <xbonesx> rwhitby: keeps telling me that i have now control subdirectory
Oct 24 05:15:01 <xbonesx> but it clearly has the control.tar.gz archive, does it need to be untared?
Oct 24 05:20:51 <xbonesx> rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=YZuyXdFT
Oct 24 05:29:19 <LoneStar99> good evening all
Oct 24 05:30:04 <xbonesx> hello
Oct 24 05:33:31 <LoneStar99> hello xbonesx
Oct 24 05:34:06 <xbonesx> enjoying your stay at #webos lol ;)
Oct 24 05:36:57 <xbonesx> LoneStar99: maybe you could help me, if your willing too?
Oct 24 05:37:48 <alexfner> hey folks
Oct 24 05:37:50 <alexfner> hows goes it?
Oct 24 05:38:23 <xbonesx> must be late afternoon for you guys?
Oct 24 05:38:23 <xbonesx> pretty good
Oct 24 05:41:13 <alexfner> it's 1:38am
Oct 24 05:41:33 <xbonesx> oh lol, in late as well
Oct 24 05:53:41 <xbonesx> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=YZuyXdFT anyone tell me why this isnt working?
Oct 24 06:07:28 <rwhitby> xbonesx: use the ipkg-unbuild script to unpack the .ipk file - that will show you the correct directory structure for pack. otherwise, just read the pack shell script to see what it does.
Oct 24 06:09:14 <xbonesx> thanks
Oct 24 06:14:38 <alexfner>  learning iOS programming RIGHT NOW! ...
Oct 24 06:14:58 <torchie> sweet
Oct 24 06:15:48 <alexfner> yeah I suppose
Oct 24 06:23:17 <xbonesx> rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=EgNTcVU7
Oct 24 06:24:38 <rwhitby> xbonesx: yes, you need the arfile.py file too
Oct 24 06:25:02 <xbonesx> ok thanks
Oct 24 06:25:16 <rwhitby> xbonesx: since your Linux is not that good - why don't use you use the Theme Builder tool or the IPK builder tool (both from Jason R)
Oct 24 06:25:36 <xbonesx> anyone watching bellator?
Oct 24 06:25:57 <xbonesx> ya i tried but i dont want to have to create everything if its already created
Oct 24 06:26:05 <xbonesx> no point
Oct 24 06:37:20 <xbonesx> rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=hUJBEcSF
Oct 24 06:38:23 <MetaView> good morning
Oct 24 06:38:34 <rwhitby> xbonesx: A tip - don't use spaces in directory names
Oct 24 06:38:43 <MetaView> rwhitby: my kids slept until 8:30 AM :)
Oct 24 06:38:45 <xbonesx> ok
Oct 24 06:38:48 <xbonesx> try again one sec
Oct 24 06:39:10 <rwhitby> MetaView: luxury
Oct 24 06:39:29 <MetaView> BTW: spontaneaous Luna resets are back, at least for me
Oct 24 06:40:19 <xbonesx> rwhitby: sir you have been much, much help, thank you! :)
Oct 24 06:50:18 * phil_bw wanders by
Oct 24 06:51:06 <LoneStar99> good evening everyone
Oct 24 06:51:25 <phil_bw> evenin'
Oct 24 06:52:09 <LoneStar99> stoked about the new palm devices
Oct 24 06:54:01 <phil_bw> devices?
Oct 24 06:58:02 <LoneStar99> phones
Oct 24 06:58:17 <phil_bw> I'm only aware of one
Oct 24 06:58:37 <LoneStar99> trying to catch up, the pre 2
Oct 24 06:58:48 <phil_bw> yeah, that's the only one I know of
Oct 24 06:58:58 <LoneStar99> been away from the scene for a month
Oct 24 09:09:04 <hotdp> Hey
Oct 24 09:15:33 <StuFFmc> Hi
Oct 24 09:15:51 <StuFFmc> On the AppStore, there are Promo Codes that the developer can give to reviewers
Oct 24 09:16:00 <StuFFmc> is there something similar on the App Catalog?
Oct 24 09:23:20 <swisstomcat> morning
Oct 24 09:23:21 <swisstomcat> My presentation "you know WebOS" from @fronttrends 2010 is now online: http://bit.ly/aMpihV
Oct 24 09:30:31 <hotdp> StuFFmc not what i have heard of
Oct 24 09:30:35 <hotdp> swisstomcat good morning
Oct 24 09:35:47 <swisstomcat> morning hotdp
Oct 24 09:35:50 <swisstomcat> back from london?
Oct 24 09:36:47 <hotdp> Yes :)
Oct 24 09:36:52 <hotdp> Only a slide delay
Oct 24 09:37:00 <hotdp> (flight chancelled) :S
Oct 24 09:37:02 <swisstomcat> oh
Oct 24 09:37:04 <swisstomcat> why?
Oct 24 09:37:09 <hotdp> Had to fly over to your country :D
Oct 24 09:37:16 <swisstomcat> really?
Oct 24 09:37:21 <swisstomcat> and you didn't call me?
Oct 24 09:37:21 <hotdp> Zurich or how you spell it
Oct 24 09:37:59 <hotdp> So london zyrich - zyrich copenhagen
Oct 24 09:38:08 <swisstomcat> zurich (ZRH)
Oct 24 09:38:20 <hotdp> But got a vaucher on 5£ for a 4 hour delay :S
Oct 24 09:38:33 <swisstomcat> all the way down to zurich and then all the way back to copenhagen :/
Oct 24 09:38:40 <hotdp> Yes
Oct 24 09:38:45 <swisstomcat> crazy
Oct 24 09:38:48 <hotdp> if you look at the map, its very stupid :D
Oct 24 09:38:53 <swisstomcat> yeah!
Oct 24 09:39:28 <hotdp> how was your flight?
Oct 24 09:39:51 <swisstomcat> good .. only 1 1/2 hours
Oct 24 09:40:06 * hotdp brb have to vacuum :S
Oct 24 09:40:09 <StuFFmc> so there's no way for a developer to give a free access to his app like the appstore promo codes?
Oct 24 09:40:18 <swisstomcat> nope :( not yet
Oct 24 09:40:26 <swisstomcat> it would be great to have something like that
Oct 24 09:40:32 <swisstomcat> or gift coupons
Oct 24 09:40:48 <swisstomcat> you can send the .ipk file tho
Oct 24 09:49:55 <xbonesx> i would definitely by this phone, http://davidvogt.deviantart.com/art/Palm-C40-Mockup-156359512?q=boost%3Apopular+palm+pre&qo=16
Oct 24 09:52:55 <hotdp> me2
Oct 24 09:56:53 <xbonesx> hotdp: sexy isnt it?
Oct 24 09:57:36 <xbonesx> was that the winner of the mock up contest?
Oct 24 09:57:50 <hotdp> The contest is still on
Oct 24 09:57:52 <hotdp> make your vote
Oct 24 09:57:57 <hotdp> http://www.precentral.net/vote-mock-next-palm-device-contest-needs-you-pick-winner
Oct 24 10:02:52 <xbonesx> i didnt even realize that it was going on, thought it was over im looking at that page right now lol
Oct 24 10:04:48 <xbonesx> hotdp: whos your favorite?
Oct 24 10:07:16 <xbonesx> c40 is probably my favorite, that and maybe the first one
Oct 24 10:19:08 <hotdp> xbonesx i think it looks very very nice.. But the phone that can "turn" is kind of inovating
Oct 24 10:19:31 <xbonesx> very true
Oct 24 10:20:13 <xbonesx> the analog joystick was a very nice addition, did you do a mock up?
Oct 24 10:21:04 <hotdp> No i have NO gfx skill :)
Oct 24 10:21:14 <xbonesx> lol this is mine one sec
Oct 24 10:23:35 <xbonesx> i took out my crayon and reminisced back to 1st grade, http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8629/screenshoteditediconsfr.png
Oct 24 10:24:09 <xbonesx> except for the camera icon, there all the original ones that i colored
Oct 24 10:24:18 <xbonesx> not all of them yet still working
Oct 24 10:24:36 <xbonesx> what do you think, honestly? hotdp ?
Oct 24 10:25:08 <xbonesx> not being perfect kinda gives them their own look, ya know?
Oct 24 10:25:14 <swisstomcat> i like the palm pre HD
Oct 24 10:25:35 <xbonesx> swisstomcat: tbh, most of them would be nice
Oct 24 10:27:10 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 24 10:27:27 <xbonesx> swisstomcat: what do you think of my icons? http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8629/screenshoteditediconsfr.png
Oct 24 10:27:32 <xbonesx> lmao
Oct 24 10:28:12 <hotdp> Red icons?
Oct 24 10:28:47 <swisstomcat> not that thrilled about it
Oct 24 10:29:03 <oil> doc viewer looks nice :)
Oct 24 10:29:35 <swisstomcat> My presentation "you know WebOS" from @fronttrends 2010 is now online: http://bit.ly/aMpihV
Oct 24 10:29:38 <xbonesx> ya im going to switch out the bubble icons in the cherry glossy theme
Oct 24 10:29:38 <swisstomcat> any feedback?
Oct 24 10:30:10 <xbonesx> oil: thanks
Oct 24 10:31:23 <oil> lol
Oct 24 10:33:40 <xbonesx> swisstomcat: nice
Oct 24 10:34:20 <xbonesx> thats hilarious....
Oct 24 10:34:32 <xbonesx> lol bored? whats it for?
Oct 24 10:35:29 <xbonesx> swisstomcat: i love the bum, will code for food hahahaha
Oct 24 10:35:46 <swisstomcat> lots of areas of improvement still, but it was my first public talk/presentation at a conference
Oct 24 10:36:11 <xbonesx> wait dev days?
Oct 24 10:36:16 <swisstomcat> no
Oct 24 10:36:20 <xbonesx> ?
Oct 24 10:36:24 <swisstomcat> front-trends conference in poland
Oct 24 10:36:33 <xbonesx> ah... :S?
Oct 24 10:36:35 <swisstomcat> last thursday and friday
Oct 24 10:36:47 <xbonesx> very blunt
Oct 24 10:37:03 <swisstomcat> what?
Oct 24 10:39:03 <xbonesx> its very blunt as in straight to the point with some dull humor (kinda like "the office")[not a bad thing i enjoy that type]
Oct 24 10:39:48 <xbonesx> i enjoyed it :)
Oct 24 10:46:02 <swisstomcat> thanks for the feedback :)
Oct 24 10:47:51 <xbonesx> how did the actual conference go?
Oct 24 10:48:07 <swisstomcat> it was nice
Oct 24 10:48:21 <swisstomcat> front-trends.com
Oct 24 10:48:24 <swisstomcat> look at the schedule
Oct 24 10:48:33 <oil> while im sure the words that go with the slides make it a lot better
Oct 24 10:48:42 <xbonesx> true
Oct 24 10:48:58 <oil> seemed like a good "here is how its different then just developing for the web" to web-people
Oct 24 10:49:51 <swisstomcat> next time i should show more how webos apps look
Oct 24 10:50:05 <swisstomcat> and how everything relates to the whole web vs. native discussion
Oct 24 10:50:07 <xbonesx> that would be a help
Oct 24 10:50:31 <swisstomcat> the point of most conference speakers was "no more native apps, the web has won"
Oct 24 10:50:32 <damada> hi, I'd like to have an English interface language and a German main input language. Is there a patch for that, somewhere? Or is webos really the only mobile OS which can't do that? (scnr)
Oct 24 10:50:44 <swisstomcat> hi damada
Oct 24 10:50:48 <damada> hi swisstomcat
Oct 24 10:50:51 <swisstomcat> damada: example?
Oct 24 10:51:10 <damada> swisstomcat: ? email, messaging, etc
Oct 24 10:51:25 <damada> the sym key behavior is different for differnet languages
Oct 24 10:51:41 <swisstomcat> ah, i see
Oct 24 10:51:47 <damada> with an English interfache äöüß is not the default for sym+a, sym+u etc
Oct 24 10:51:54 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 24 10:52:04 <swisstomcat> i don't think a mix like that is possible
Oct 24 10:52:12 <damada> jesus
Oct 24 10:52:24 <damada> so webos IS the only mobile os that can't do that...
Oct 24 10:53:28 <swisstomcat> really?
Oct 24 10:53:40 <damada> yes.
Oct 24 10:53:41 <swisstomcat> how do the other solve that "problem"?
Oct 24 10:53:47 <swisstomcat> others
Oct 24 10:53:50 <damada> my phones back in 2000 could do taht
Oct 24 10:54:16 <damada> you could adapt t9 input language from the first day
Oct 24 10:54:20 <damada> on the fly
Oct 24 10:54:46 <swisstomcat> the US focus of palm is apparent
Oct 24 10:54:58 <damada> yes, and this is why it is a dead end
Oct 24 10:55:13 <swisstomcat> now they sell unlocked developer UMTS phones, but only in the US
Oct 24 10:55:15 <oil> its apparent? like how that new pre2 was launched first in the us? :)
Oct 24 10:56:00 <swisstomcat> yeah, that's a bit strange
Oct 24 10:56:39 <swisstomcat> SFR seems like the only european provider tho .. no pre2 planned for germany for example
Oct 24 10:57:05 <swisstomcat> why HP/Palm just forgets about the carriers and sells unlocked phones directly and worldwide i don't understand
Oct 24 10:57:19 <damada> me neither
Oct 24 10:57:37 <damada> nine countries with "exclusive" resellers was the dumbest decision ever
Oct 24 10:57:50 <damada> with the rare O2 Germany exeption
Oct 24 10:58:06 <damada> which is where I got my pre from :)
Oct 24 10:58:24 <damada> with now runs an Austrian Orange SIM card
Oct 24 10:59:04 <swisstomcat> same here, i got my pre from a swiss retailer
Oct 24 10:59:09 <damada> also, I hear that US customer still wait for 1.4.5?
Oct 24 10:59:16 <swisstomcat> not anymore
Oct 24 10:59:21 <damada> ah, finally :)
Oct 24 10:59:30 <swisstomcat> telcel (mexico) is the only provider that still has 1.4.2?
Oct 24 11:00:04 <swisstomcat> screw the telcos ... i buy my own phone, thank you very much ... just give me sms/voice/data and i'm happy
Oct 24 11:00:25 <damada> :) and os updates, and plenty
Oct 24 11:00:36 <swisstomcat> international data roaming? extortion! i paid 8 euros/MB while in poland
Oct 24 11:00:36 <damada> and a good VOIP app that uses wifi
Oct 24 11:00:50 <damada> or data and wifi, selectable
Oct 24 11:01:44 <swisstomcat> yeah
Oct 24 11:01:53 <damada> swisstomcat: see, this is another good example for the US focus: the Palm devs haven't even thought about the fact that elsewhere countries are smaller and people cross border a lot
Oct 24 11:02:03 <damada> so no VOIP
Oct 24 11:02:15 <swisstomcat> i hope hp/palm makes the palmpad only with wifi: that way it won't be sold through a carrier
Oct 24 11:02:22 <swisstomcat> damada: exactly
Oct 24 11:02:33 <damada> also, to my knowledge, the only advanced mobile OS that has neither skype nor any other VOIP app
Oct 24 11:02:54 <swisstomcat> webOS 2.0 will have skype, but only on verizon ... WTF?
Oct 24 11:03:15 <damada> well, I'd definitely prefer a decent "real" SIP VoiP solution over skype
Oct 24 11:03:24 <swisstomcat> fring?
Oct 24 11:03:34 <damada> sipgate :)
Oct 24 11:03:41 <damada> never tried fring
Oct 24 11:03:41 <swisstomcat> good too
Oct 24 11:04:12 * damada needs to get the laundry done, brb
Oct 24 11:05:14 <swisstomcat> a must see slideset from fronttrends: http://bit.ly/cbkwVy (JSON over SMS and other cool stories from the mobile world)
Oct 24 11:07:30 <xbonesx> im editing a xml file for the moving of pictures to the phone (the one in a theme ipk) if i just delete the pictures that i dont want, do i have to remove the entrys from the xml file, will it halt the installation, or will it just error on that one line and continue with the theme?
Oct 24 11:11:55 <xbonesx> lol did everyone leave/go back to work ???
Oct 24 11:12:19 <swisstomcat> heh
Oct 24 11:12:36 <xbonesx> lol, any thought on my issue?
Oct 24 11:12:59 <swisstomcat> i have no experience with theming
Oct 24 11:13:04 <xbonesx> i would assume that it will just skip cuz the file wont exist...
Oct 24 11:13:40 <xbonesx> well with apps, isnt their a file that directs where all the files from the ipk are supposed to goto?
Oct 24 11:14:04 <xbonesx> if you enter a file that doesnt exist in the ipk, during installation what would it do?
Oct 24 11:17:32 <xbonesx> im going to assume that all ipks work about the same way, as in there is a file(XML) that tells preware where all the files go...
Oct 24 11:18:05 <oil> preware doesnt read any xml files
Oct 24 11:19:20 <xbonesx> you sure?
Oct 24 11:19:33 <xbonesx> maybe not preware specifically
Oct 24 11:19:34 <oil> 100% positive
Oct 24 11:19:50 <xbonesx> something uses the xml file to direct where files are to be placed
Oct 24 11:19:50 <hotdp> oil does not say anything that is not true :P
Oct 24 11:20:13 <xbonesx> assuming the app ipks contain one as well?
Oct 24 11:20:21 <oil> i dont know what happens when the theme is packaged as an ipk
Oct 24 11:20:43 <oil> but the extent of prewares involvement is "hey application manager, install this .ipk for me, thanks"
Oct 24 11:20:50 <xbonesx> it consists of a control.tar.gz, data.tar.gz, debian-binary
Oct 24 11:21:02 <xbonesx> lol
Oct 24 11:21:10 <xbonesx> i forgot about the PMS
Oct 24 11:21:25 <xbonesx> thats what handles shit preware is just a GUI
Oct 24 11:21:25 <oil> no, packages are installed through palms service now
Oct 24 11:21:34 <xbonesx> huh?
Oct 24 11:21:38 <xbonesx> really didnt know that
Oct 24 11:21:57 <xbonesx> ok this is all irrelevant
Oct 24 11:22:11 <oil> all the package manager service that goes with preware does now is return feed data and download items
Oct 24 11:22:50 <oil> (and allow us to access private service methods preware wouldn't normall be able to access without being on the private bus)
Oct 24 11:23:06 <xbonesx> ok in a theme there is an xml file that directs where the images are to be placed
Oct 24 11:23:38 <xbonesx> not sure what you would call that
Oct 24 11:23:44 * oil doesn't really know how that part of themes work
Oct 24 11:23:52 <oil> though, i would assume there is a script that reads the file
Oct 24 11:23:58 <xbonesx> right
Oct 24 11:24:02 <xbonesx> example
Oct 24 11:24:07 <oil> or the xml file is used to create a script which moves all the files/etc
Oct 24 11:24:56 <oil> the xml file is from jasons theming tool
Oct 24 11:25:07 <oil> the autobuilder takes the zips created by that and turns them into ipks
Oct 24 11:25:25 <oil> using the standard package format
Oct 24 11:25:36 <xbonesx> <file><filename>usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.findapps/images/stars_large_1.png</filename><destination>/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.findapps/images/stars_large_1.png</destination></file>
Oct 24 11:25:54 <oil> im not entirely sure the xml is still used when its in ipk form
Oct 24 11:26:19 <xbonesx> wouldnt it have to, other wise how would it know where to put the images?
Oct 24 11:26:47 <oil> you'll have to ask rwhitby, im pretty sure he wrote the program that converts them
Oct 24 11:27:03 <xbonesx> lol
Oct 24 11:27:15 <xbonesx> been speaking with him, afraid i may have got on the mans nerves lol
Oct 24 11:27:32 <oil> afaik a "post installs script" which is in the ipk can't parse an xml file
Oct 24 11:27:41 <rwhitby> http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=scripts/xml-theme-converter.py
Oct 24 11:27:49 <oil> im pretty sure the autobuilder turns the xml file into a bash script
Oct 24 11:28:54 <oil> well, looks like thats what the python script does anyways :)
Oct 24 11:29:31 <xbonesx> rwhitby: if you created you would know this i assume, if i delete images and dont edit the xml to exclude the now non-existent images, will the theme continue to install the rest?
Oct 24 11:29:44 <oil> you need to be looking in postinst/prerm
Oct 24 11:29:59 <oil> the script will still try to copy something non-existant which would error on install
Oct 24 11:31:32 <xbonesx> it would error but would it continue?
Oct 24 11:31:59 <oil> i have no clue
Oct 24 11:32:06 <xbonesx> oil: do you use a linux operating system on your pc?
Oct 24 11:32:10 <oil> no
Oct 24 11:32:18 <xbonesx> damn
Oct 24 11:32:19 <xbonesx> ok
Oct 24 11:33:06 <swisstomcat> i do
Oct 24 11:33:32 <rwhitby> xbonesx: edit the XML to match, or use a theme builder tool
Oct 24 11:33:35 <xbonesx> swisstomcat: do you have a recommended xml editor, for ease of use?
Oct 24 11:34:19 <swisstomcat> i don't really use it for xml .. but maybe komodo edit would also help with it
Oct 24 11:34:23 <xbonesx> well i suppose now that i have the theme open and know how to re-ipk it, i guess i could just use the theme builder to compile it again
Oct 24 11:34:42 <swisstomcat> it has syntax coloring and bracket/comma matching
Oct 24 11:35:05 <xbonesx> ya im using a variant of the xmlnotepad from windows
Oct 24 11:35:11 <xbonesx> xml copy editor
Oct 24 11:59:04 <warpdesign_> hello
Oct 24 12:14:24 <rwhitby> hey warpdesign_ - any news of Pre 2 sales in france yet?
Oct 24 12:15:03 <warpdesign_> well, it's been out for 2 days..
Oct 24 12:15:08 <warpdesign_> guess it's near 10 :)
Oct 24 12:24:31 <swisstomcat> hi warpdesign
Oct 24 12:24:48 <swisstomcat> could you get a serial number of a sfr pre 2?
Oct 24 12:26:29 <warpdesign_> ? how could I ? :)
Oct 24 12:35:55 <xbonesx> is there an irc channel for webos theming?
Oct 24 12:37:24 <swisstomcat> #webos-internals maybe? not sure
Oct 24 12:37:51 <xbonesx> swisstomcat: you'd think with as many people doing it that they would have one lol
Oct 24 12:38:08 <rwhitby> I've never seen much discussion of theming in either channel.  PreCentral forums is where the themers hang out.
Oct 24 12:38:14 <swisstomcat> also check out precentral (the forums)
Oct 24 12:38:50 <xbonesx> sounds good, ive been checking out prethemers forums, ill check theirs out too
Oct 24 12:52:13 <hotdp> does anyone know why http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2129 is only for USA ? :S
Oct 24 12:53:23 <swisstomcat> wish i knew
Oct 24 12:53:26 <swisstomcat> makes no sense
Oct 24 12:53:33 <swisstomcat> unlocked UMTS phones
Oct 24 12:53:53 <hotdp> yer it makes no sense?
Oct 24 12:53:58 <hotdp> Maybe we shall ask?
Oct 24 12:59:20 <swisstomcat> maybe they don't know
Oct 24 12:59:29 <swisstomcat> but putting up some pressure would be nice
Oct 24 13:00:27 <swisstomcat> hmm
Oct 24 13:10:06 <hotdp> shall we ask chuq tomorrow or write email på pdc?
Oct 24 13:17:54 <swisstomcat> i wonder if a) he knows b) can tell us
Oct 24 13:18:53 <hotdp> pdc will now
Oct 24 13:21:27 <hotdp> Anyone delveoped for exibition?
Oct 24 13:23:48 <haeffb> swisstomcat: like the presentation.
Oct 24 13:23:57 <swisstomcat> thank you
Oct 24 13:24:34 <swisstomcat> i think it was well received from the feedback i got .. but there's room for improvements for sure
Oct 24 13:24:47 <swisstomcat> but hey, it was my first time talking at a conference :)
Oct 24 13:24:59 <swisstomcat> in front of 80-100 people .. in english
Oct 24 13:25:16 <hotdp> I like the indien man on the boat :P
Oct 24 13:25:31 <swisstomcat> that was someone elses presentation
Oct 24 13:25:36 <swisstomcat> else's
Oct 24 13:25:45 <swisstomcat> he has got great ideas
Oct 24 13:25:59 <hotdp> yer :d
Oct 24 13:26:06 <hotdp> i like he got a iphone :D
Oct 24 13:26:16 <swisstomcat> json over sms? sure ... install apps via bluetooth? sure
Oct 24 13:26:24 <swisstomcat> install/share
Oct 24 13:26:31 <hotdp> where is yours presentation?
Oct 24 13:27:38 <swisstomcat> http://bit.ly/aMpihV
Oct 24 13:27:51 <hotdp> thanks
Oct 24 13:30:41 <BMyers>  like the mug css spill over
Oct 24 13:36:31 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: you know why I think they have unlocked NA UMTS Pre 2 phones?
Oct 24 13:36:53 <swisstomcat> i have some ideas, but they're NDA
Oct 24 13:37:00 <swisstomcat> (probably)
Oct 24 13:37:11 <swisstomcat> why?
Oct 24 13:37:32 <rwhitby> Well, if no US GSM carrier signed up for the phone (none have been announced yet), there would be no business impediment to doing so.
Oct 24 13:37:42 <rwhitby> (releasing unlocked NA UMTS phones)
Oct 24 13:37:59 <swisstomcat> NA?
Oct 24 13:38:15 <rwhitby> As opposed to their being a EU GSM carrier selling the Pre 2.
Oct 24 13:38:16 <swisstomcat> north america
Oct 24 13:38:45 <rwhitby> yeah, the dev device is a P102UNA, not a P102UEU.
Oct 24 13:38:55 <swisstomcat> oh, really?
Oct 24 13:39:03 <swisstomcat> interesting
Oct 24 13:39:10 <rwhitby> (well, at least the dev devices that the reviewers got are)
Oct 24 13:39:15 <swisstomcat> what's the diff between UNA and UEU?
Oct 24 13:39:20 <rwhitby> 3G bands
Oct 24 13:39:23 <swisstomcat> right
Oct 24 13:39:51 <swisstomcat> but the phones we are talking about are developer phones
Oct 24 13:39:57 <swisstomcat> nothing for the general public
Oct 24 13:40:38 <swisstomcat> my question about the american market: can you sell "unlocked" CDMA phones?
Oct 24 13:40:50 <swisstomcat> if there's a term for that .. since they have no SIM-card
Oct 24 13:41:42 <hotdp> I dont udnerstand, so a USA UMTS will not work in EU UMTS?
Oct 24 13:41:54 <swisstomcat> they have different bands AFAIK
Oct 24 13:41:57 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: no such thing as unlocked CDMA
Oct 24 13:42:03 <rwhitby> different 3G bands
Oct 24 13:42:16 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: so they need a carrier to sell a CDMA device?
Oct 24 13:42:32 <rwhitby> the Pre  is quad band GSM (will work everywhere) but only dual band 3G (so you have to chose NA or ROW)
Oct 24 13:42:43 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: yep
Oct 24 13:42:56 <hotdp> aha
Oct 24 13:42:59 <rwhitby> CDMA FTL, GSM FTW.
Oct 24 13:43:09 <hotdp> But the frech phone is EU UTMS right?
Oct 24 13:43:11 <rwhitby> NA GSM FTL.
Oct 24 13:43:13 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: that probably explains why they're not "getting" the whole unlocked thing here in europe resp. world
Oct 24 13:43:30 <rwhitby> hotdp: yes, but locked to SFR
Oct 24 13:43:35 <hotdp> I see
Oct 24 13:43:42 <rwhitby> hotdp: although you can buy unlocked for 400+ euro
Oct 24 13:43:44 <hotdp> :/
Oct 24 13:43:46 <swisstomcat> just sell an unlocked UMTS phone worldwide without a carrier, directly from palm/hp
Oct 24 13:43:54 <swisstomcat> screw the carriers
Oct 24 13:43:59 * hotdp votes for that
Oct 24 13:44:20 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: I've been saying that for a while, but apparently in the US the carriers own the people and the phones
Oct 24 13:44:31 <hotdp> :(
Oct 24 13:44:33 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: palm's NA focus screws with the worldwide adaption
Oct 24 13:44:48 <BMyers> ppl forget that they are not palm customers. the carriers are..
Oct 24 13:44:55 <swisstomcat> they should
Oct 24 13:45:16 <swisstomcat> who cares about the carrier? all i want from the carrier is a data and voice connection
Oct 24 13:45:22 <rwhitby> BMyers: that was true for Palm. it does not need to be true for HP and GSM devices.
Oct 24 13:45:45 <swisstomcat> i just buy my unlocked phone at the store, thank you very much
Oct 24 13:45:57 <swisstomcat> i then insert a sim-card of my choice
Oct 24 13:46:15 <swisstomcat> of course that screws up the carrier's business model
Oct 24 13:46:19 <rwhitby> HP has enough marketing and distribution to sell unlocked GSM phones world-wide.  Trouble is that US consumers won't buy them, cause they won't be subsidised.
Oct 24 13:46:24 <swisstomcat> and doesn't seem to work at all in the US
Oct 24 13:46:55 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: you think HP has such a plan? that would be awesome ... give the carriers the boot
Oct 24 13:47:28 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: I hope that HP makes a bet each way.
Oct 24 13:47:34 <swisstomcat> who gives a rats-ass about the us-market? the worldwide market is much bigger .. someone go an wake up palm and tell them that
Oct 24 13:48:03 <swisstomcat> what's the solution for the american market?
Oct 24 13:48:07 <swisstomcat> NA
Oct 24 13:48:12 <swisstomcat> more gsm providers?
Oct 24 13:48:37 <rwhitby> Consumers will not pay the price of freedom.
Oct 24 13:48:48 <swisstomcat> educated customers might
Oct 24 13:48:48 <rwhitby> So the carriers will continue to own them.
Oct 24 13:49:13 <swisstomcat> what choice do NA CDMA customers have?
Oct 24 13:49:23 <renegaid> Why should thy
Oct 24 13:49:42 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: did you see the responses to me "if you don't like CDMA, then just switch to GSM" tweet?  US market is not going to change.
Oct 24 13:49:44 <swisstomcat> depends if you look at it from the customers perspective or the carriers perspective :)
Oct 24 13:49:57 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: no, didn't see that one
Oct 24 13:50:06 <renegaid> Pay 500 for a phone for a plan you will have regardless. Not smart
Oct 24 13:50:39 <rwhitby> renegaid: yep, the carriers have you by the ....
Oct 24 13:51:02 <renegaid> GSM is art expensive. Even T-Mobile is expensive
Oct 24 13:51:08 <swisstomcat> rwhitby: nothing is ever going to stay the same .. change is inevitable ... question is: how long will it take?
Oct 24 13:51:10 <renegaid> Att
Oct 24 13:51:11 <rwhitby> renegaid: yep, the carriers have you by the ....
Oct 24 13:51:47 <swisstomcat> how big is the cdma market compared to the gsm market (in percent)?
Oct 24 13:52:00 <rwhitby> swisstomcat: china has cdma
Oct 24 13:52:09 <swisstomcat> really?
Oct 24 13:52:16 <swisstomcat> doh
Oct 24 13:52:27 <rwhitby> yep. lots of Preware users in china using sprint Pre's.
Oct 24 13:52:42 <rwhitby> they have GSM too of course
Oct 24 13:52:48 <swisstomcat> oh
Oct 24 13:52:52 <swisstomcat> i thought so
Oct 24 13:53:27 * rwhitby bbt - time for sleep now that truecrypt is ported.
Oct 24 13:53:37 <swisstomcat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_phone_standards
Oct 24 13:54:11 <swisstomcat> worldwide: 84% gsm/umts
Oct 24 13:54:29 <swisstomcat> 12% cdma2000
Oct 24 13:54:36 <swisstomcat> WTF!
Oct 24 13:59:59 <rwhitby> http://bit.ly/gsm-vs-cdma (for future use)
Oct 24 14:00:54 * rwhitby sleeps
Oct 24 14:14:41 <MetaView> re
Oct 24 14:15:13 <swisstomcat> hallo metaview
Oct 24 14:15:26 <MetaView> hi swisstomcat
Oct 24 14:16:30 <swisstomcat> metaview: my fronttrends presentation: http://bit.ly/aMpihV
Oct 24 14:16:33 <MetaView> bought a Pre2?
Oct 24 14:16:41 <swisstomcat> where?
Oct 24 14:17:46 <haeffb> if I could get a discounted rate plan, I'd buy my phones at full price. But, alas, I cannot.
Oct 24 14:19:26 <MetaView> swisstomcat: from SFR? Isn't that far from you, or?
Oct 24 14:19:30 <haeffb> so does that mean the carriers have me by the  .... ?
Oct 24 14:19:33 <MetaView> swisstomcat: nice slides, really :)
Oct 24 14:19:42 <swisstomcat> metaview: apparently it's not available yet
Oct 24 14:19:46 <MetaView> ok
Oct 24 14:19:53 <swisstomcat> thanks, metaview
Oct 24 14:20:01 <MetaView> haeffb: wanna buy a new phone?
Oct 24 14:20:22 <swisstomcat> haeffb: how much do US customers pay for voice/sms/data?
Oct 24 14:20:23 <MetaView> how long did you speak?
Oct 24 14:20:27 <swisstomcat> 45min
Oct 24 14:20:33 <MetaView> cool
Oct 24 14:20:35 <swisstomcat> including questions
Oct 24 14:20:39 <swisstomcat> first time :)
Oct 24 14:21:04 <haeffb> Sprint: $70/month for unlimited text, data and some large number of minutes
Oct 24 14:21:16 <MetaView> I made a speak last year for the German Palm User Meeting, my slides were much more technical, probably people didn't understand much..
Oct 24 14:21:31 <MetaView> who needs unlimited text?
Oct 24 14:22:16 <haeffb> teenagers in the US
Oct 24 14:22:25 <swisstomcat> do you still have those slides, metaview?
Oct 24 14:22:45 <swisstomcat> haeffb: what about 30min voice,no sms and 1gb of data?
Oct 24 14:23:14 <swisstomcat> that's what i have
Oct 24 14:23:33 <haeffb> probably don't have that option.
Oct 24 14:23:49 <haeffb> unlimited everything is $99 per month
Oct 24 14:24:03 <haeffb> $70 gets you 450 minutes
Oct 24 14:25:18 <BMyers> haeffb: will there be a service for agenda when 2.0 is released in the USA?
Oct 24 14:25:48 <swisstomcat> who needs 450minutes?!
Oct 24 14:25:59 <swisstomcat> i don't even use my 30min (usually)
Oct 24 14:26:09 <BMyers> swisstomcat:  yeah all i need is SIP
Oct 24 14:26:12 <swisstomcat> what's the cheapest plan, haeffb?
Oct 24 14:26:22 <haeffb> $29.99 for 200 min
Oct 24 14:26:28 <swisstomcat> data?
Oct 24 14:26:29 <haeffb> no data/text
Oct 24 14:26:39 <swisstomcat> with data?
Oct 24 14:27:17 <haeffb> data usually like $20/month
Oct 24 14:27:20 <haeffb> unlimited
Oct 24 14:27:47 <BMyers> "unlimited" means different things tho
Oct 24 14:27:58 <haeffb> but the $70 plan is the cheapest you can get with Pre/Pixi
Oct 24 14:28:28 <swisstomcat> oh
Oct 24 14:28:32 <swisstomcat> plans are tied to a phone?
Oct 24 14:29:23 <haeffb> not always. But for smartphones, they require the higher rate plans. Because the phones are subsidized.
Oct 24 14:29:35 <renegaid> you are not from the usa are you
Oct 24 14:29:57 <haeffb> who? "swiss" tomcat?
Oct 24 14:30:08 <renegaid> Swss
Oct 24 14:30:26 <renegaid> swiss
Oct 24 14:30:28 <BMyers> yeah they make you pay $2400 for $200 gift in phone
Oct 24 14:30:41 <MetaView> http://www.metaviewsoft.de/PUM-2009
Oct 24 14:31:46 <renegaid> Maybe 2400 if you have att or verizon
Oct 24 14:31:58 <BMyers> sprint
Oct 24 14:32:09 <renegaid> Sprint no way
Oct 24 14:32:16 <renegaid> 70 a month
Oct 24 14:32:34 <swisstomcat> renegaid: i'm from europe
Oct 24 14:32:52 <swisstomcat> haeffb: and you can't get the phones un-subsidized?
Oct 24 14:32:54 <BMyers> 1680 then
Oct 24 14:33:16 <renegaid> Compare that to the competition
Oct 24 14:33:23 <swisstomcat> metaview: how should i watch a ppt? ;)
Oct 24 14:33:30 <MetaView> OpenOffice?
Oct 24 14:33:43 <MetaView> that's what I used to create it :)
Oct 24 14:33:48 <swisstomcat> guess that would work ... i created mine in S5
Oct 24 14:33:51 <BMyers> there is a reader
Oct 24 14:33:53 <haeffb> swisstomcat: I can buy the phone full-price, but still pay hte same for the voice/data plan
Oct 24 14:34:07 <swisstomcat> haeffb: are they insane?
Oct 24 14:34:25 <swisstomcat> bmyers: for linux?
Oct 24 14:34:52 * swisstomcat tries openoffice
Oct 24 14:34:53 <BMyers> freshmeat.net i am sure there is something
Oct 24 14:35:03 <MetaView> I pay 6,80€/month for unlimited data and then whatever I call
Oct 24 14:35:18 <haeffb> no, but I would be insane to pay full retail for a phone. In fact, I'm insane for not upgrading my Pre to something...
Oct 24 14:35:23 <swisstomcat> so basically US customers are f*****?
Oct 24 14:35:29 <MetaView> sounds like
Oct 24 14:35:39 <MetaView> they pay even for being called, or?
Oct 24 14:35:53 <haeffb> on some carriers, yes
Oct 24 14:36:06 <swisstomcat> time for a revolution! :)
Oct 24 14:36:11 <haeffb> Sprint plan provides free mobile-to-mobile
Oct 24 14:36:35 <MetaView> I usually pay not more than 15€ per month for voice
Oct 24 14:36:57 <haeffb> what did you pay for Pre?
Oct 24 14:37:21 <renegaid> You are comparing different currencies
Oct 24 14:38:16 <haeffb> $1 = 0.72€
Oct 24 14:39:05 <haeffb> I can get a Pre for $0 with a 2-yr contract @ $70/month for 450 min, unlimited text/data
Oct 24 14:39:27 <renegaid> Rates fluctuate
Oct 24 14:41:00 <MetaView> the Pre was 480€
Oct 24 14:41:06 <swisstomcat> metaview: your presentation looks pretty good tho
Oct 24 14:41:12 <swisstomcat> metaview: what was the audience?
Oct 24 14:41:22 <MetaView> well, I guess yours was more interesting
Oct 24 14:41:42 <MetaView> more or less users, some with developer background
Oct 24 14:41:42 <swisstomcat> why?
Oct 24 14:41:53 <MetaView> you have the nicer slides, really
Oct 24 14:42:00 <swisstomcat> thanks :)
Oct 24 14:42:01 <haeffb> so $1680 for a Pre and 2 years of voice/text/data
Oct 24 14:42:03 <MetaView> :)
Oct 24 14:42:10 <swisstomcat> metaview: no everyone liked the jokes tho
Oct 24 14:42:23 <MetaView> Humorlos...
Oct 24 14:42:40 <swisstomcat> it's difficult to find the right type of humor
Oct 24 14:42:53 <swisstomcat> i liked html5douche tho :)
Oct 24 14:52:03 <hotdp> I hate guying phone ono contract
Oct 24 14:52:08 <hotdp> *buying
Oct 24 14:52:27 <hotdp> I bought full price Pre in germany, and thats the way i lik it
Oct 24 14:55:37 <haeffb> a sprint premier customer can also upgrade phones every 12 months. so really a Pre and 12 months voice/text/data for $840
Oct 24 14:56:12 <hotdp> i pay 360$ for 12 month
Oct 24 14:56:26 <hotdp> so plus phone it is still cheaper
Oct 24 14:56:34 <haeffb> its all just a stupid financing plan for cell phones
Oct 24 14:56:37 <hotdp> AND i can change when i want and use the sim i want
Oct 24 15:05:21 <swisstomcat> haeffb: upgrade without paying anything?
Oct 24 15:06:45 <Roy-Pre101> swisstomcat: Heyo
Oct 24 15:07:05 <Roy-Pre101> swisstomcat: How'd the talk go?
Oct 24 15:07:44 <haeffb> depends on the phone. an EVO would be $199 today.
Oct 24 15:08:13 <haeffb> Pre $49, Pixi $0
Oct 24 15:08:42 <BMyers> <--- evo is awesome
Oct 24 15:09:11 <swisstomcat> roy-pre101: it went pretty well ... http://www.thinmachine.ch/presentations/ft2010/
Oct 24 15:09:24 <swisstomcat> roy-pre101: compared to the other talks, i have a lot of room for improvment
Oct 24 15:09:47 <renegaid> You can get these phones cheaper from other retailers
Oct 24 15:11:12 <swisstomcat> or from flea-bay
Oct 24 15:11:24 <BMyers> yeah ebay
Oct 24 15:11:34 <BMyers> to buy something like a smartphone?
Oct 24 15:11:50 <BMyers> better be one very trusted seller
Oct 24 15:11:52 <swisstomcat> i bought my pixi from ebay
Oct 24 15:14:27 <BMyers> how much?
Oct 24 15:14:52 <swisstomcat> 180euros
Oct 24 15:15:05 <BMyers> whats that in pesos ?
Oct 24 15:16:27 <swisstomcat> 10,817.59 PHP Philippines Pesos
Oct 24 15:16:58 <BMyers> anything over 10 thousand is a rip
Oct 24 15:17:24 <BMyers> :)
Oct 24 15:18:35 <Roy-Pre101> swisstomcat: I'll watch the slides in a bit!
Oct 24 15:18:45 <swisstomcat> cool
Oct 24 15:26:02 <BMyers> is admob mgr in preware a free app in the catalog?
Oct 24 15:29:05 <swisstomcat> admob mgr? new app?
Oct 24 15:29:31 <BMyers> preware but it be in app cat
Oct 24 15:29:43 <BMyers> i dont have app cat access
Oct 24 15:30:14 <JenP> hi all
Oct 24 15:31:33 <jamesderektate> Question on the WebView widget...
Oct 24 15:31:39 <jamesderektate> Any way to set the zoom setting?
Oct 24 15:32:07 <BMyers> TQOS!!!!
Oct 24 15:32:11 <jamesderektate> The meta viewport isn't set for the page, so it's somewhat small...
Oct 24 15:32:16 <JenP> BMyers!!!!
Oct 24 15:32:24 <BMyers> hi
Oct 24 15:32:28 <jamesderektate> I'm trying to get the default zoom set to zoom in slightly...
Oct 24 15:32:39 <JenP> hello!
Oct 24 15:33:12 <xbonesx> why isnt the app catalog in the emulator?
Oct 24 15:33:31 <jamesderektate> Anyone familiar with the webview?
Oct 24 15:34:16 <xbonesx> how are we to get applications from the app catalog if there is no app on the emu?
Oct 24 15:34:17 <hotdp> xbonesx youtube does not work either
Oct 24 15:34:21 <hotdp> jamesderektate yes
Oct 24 15:34:29 <xbonesx> huh...
Oct 24 15:34:33 <xbonesx> wonder why...
Oct 24 15:34:36 <jamesderektate> hotdp - any help on the zooming functionality?
Oct 24 15:34:45 <jamesderektate> or is it possible to grab the website, add the meta viewport, and then reload?
Oct 24 15:34:45 <hotdp> Why should you get apps from the catlouge to the emulator?
Oct 24 15:35:06 <xbonesx> for use with theming for me, but anyone else i wouldnt know?
Oct 24 15:35:21 <swisstomcat> jamesderektate: i think you can "inject" the meta viewport stuff
Oct 24 15:35:32 <jamesderektate> How can I inject the meta viewport?
Oct 24 15:35:44 <swisstomcat> did you check the developer forums?
Oct 24 15:36:02 <hotdp> xbonesx you can just get the ipk and install it with quickinstall?
Oct 24 15:36:12 <jamesderektate> I did...
Oct 24 15:36:20 <JenP> jamesderektate: what about resizeImage?
Oct 24 15:36:29 <xbonesx> from the app catalog?
Oct 24 15:36:38 <xbonesx> where would those ipk be hosted?
Oct 24 15:36:39 <jamesderektate> Will resizeImage work for html content, though?
Oct 24 15:37:30 <xbonesx> not sure how i would get them without the use of the palm app catalog...
Oct 24 15:37:47 <xbonesx> ah, then he runs :(
Oct 24 15:37:50 <jamesderektate> Yep resizeiMage only works for PNG
Oct 24 15:38:17 <renegaid> I wonder if webos 2 has a brr youtube app
Oct 24 15:38:26 <renegaid> Better
Oct 24 15:38:36 <swisstomcat> jamesderektate: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8111
Oct 24 15:38:41 <JenP> jamesderektate: what are you trying to zoom in on?
Oct 24 15:38:42 <xbonesx> jamesderektate: take apart an app that uses the zoom feature and study it i guess?...
Oct 24 15:39:01 <jamesderektate> I'm trying to zoom in on a mobile site for amtrak..
Oct 24 15:39:14 <jamesderektate> If I pinch the screen to zoom, then it's fine
Oct 24 15:39:29 <xbonesx> anyone know how to get ipk's from the app catalog?
Oct 24 15:39:42 <jamesderektate> http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=8111 << is the only thing I can find.
Oct 24 15:39:59 <xbonesx> only way i was aware that you could get them was with the app catalog app
Oct 24 15:40:18 <JenP> jamesderektate: send the link to what you are trying to zoom into
Oct 24 15:40:41 <jamesderektate> http://mobile.usablenet.com/mt/www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/HomePage
Oct 24 15:41:37 <haeffb> JenP: got your tix for dev day yet?
Oct 24 15:42:01 <JenP> haeffb: I wish I did. I'm all for running away from home today
Oct 24 15:42:20 <haeffb> any ideas on why db.changeVersion would give this: error {"message": "unable to verify current version of database", "code": 0}
Oct 24 15:42:43 <jamesderektate> hhmm
Oct 24 15:42:44 <haeffb> sugardave
Oct 24 15:42:46 <jamesderektate> maybe I can change the min font size?
Oct 24 15:42:55 <BMyers> new db haeffb ?
Oct 24 15:43:02 <BMyers> or non existant ?
Oct 24 15:43:07 <haeffb> it's there...
Oct 24 15:43:16 <haeffb> I will pastebin some code...
Oct 24 15:43:33 <jamesderektate> hhm, nope!
Oct 24 15:45:10 <haeffb> http://webos.pastebin.com/kidKBLdm
Oct 24 15:45:20 <sugardave> haeffb: no, I don't know....I avoid versioning like the plague
Oct 24 15:45:29 <sugardave> but I will look at your code in a bit
Oct 24 15:45:42 * haeffb watching Tigers all over ESPN today
Oct 24 15:45:45 <swisstomcat> jamesderektate: here's how i do it (swiss public transport app): get the page contents via ajax call, parse the results and build your own frontend in mojo
Oct 24 15:45:51 <sugardave> xbonesx: ssh to phone, ar the app dir, copy the ipk to /media/internal
Oct 24 15:46:12 <BMyers> stupid fox/cablevision pissing match.. no nfl for me
Oct 24 15:46:18 <jamesderektate> swisstomcat: how do you get the contents via ajax call?
Oct 24 15:46:22 <jamesderektate> that's the thing..
Oct 24 15:46:25 <sugardave> haeffb: did you guys win?
Oct 24 15:46:30 <xbonesx> sugardave: i cant do that because the app doesnt exist in the emulator, because i cant use app catalog
Oct 24 15:46:37 <haeffb> 38-27
Oct 24 15:46:47 <sugardave> woohoo!
Oct 24 15:46:50 <haeffb> opening kickoff for a TD
Oct 24 15:46:55 <sugardave> now I'm really pissed UT lost
Oct 24 15:47:02 <haeffb> yeah.
Oct 24 15:47:21 <sugardave> xbonesx: do you have a phone with the app on it?
Oct 24 15:47:23 <sugardave> re-read what I wrote
Oct 24 15:47:31 <swisstomcat> jamesderektate: http://pastebin.com/myq0Rm7N
Oct 24 15:48:29 <jamesderektate> wow, thanks..
Oct 24 15:49:01 <sugardave> haeffb: I still haven't done this...what is giving that error, your log of this.db.version?
Oct 24 15:49:02 <xbonesx> sugardave: ya if my phone wasnt upstairs running my tether so that i can have internet in my basement i would have resorted to that, but unfortunately if i want to chill in my room and have internet, this is the only way. guess i will have to edit that one later if there is no way to get apps from the app catalog on the emu
Oct 24 15:49:24 <haeffb> no, it's the onFailure of changeVersion
Oct 24 15:49:37 <sugardave> xbonesx: the ONLY way to get an app from the catalog to the emu is to do what I described (i.e. have the .ipk)
Oct 24 15:50:11 <haeffb> line 35 in the pastie
Oct 24 15:50:29 <xbonesx> sugardave: guess ill have to do the editing later then... no biggy only the musicplayerremix app
Oct 24 15:50:33 <haeffb> so the db exists, I open it and check the version (0.2) and then want to update it to 0.3
Oct 24 15:50:39 <haeffb> by adding columns to the table
Oct 24 15:50:59 <haeffb> uh. isn't musicplayerremix homebrew?
Oct 24 15:51:29 <haeffb> i.e. not in the catalog, but available for DL from precentral?
Oct 24 15:51:31 <jamesderektate> swisstomcat: worked!!!
Oct 24 15:51:33 <jamesderektate> thanks ^_^
Oct 24 15:51:46 <jamesderektate> got all the amtrak data using an ajax call -> populate cells -> front end works.
Oct 24 15:52:12 <BMyers> haeffb:  that query works against a .20 ver of the db in slqite?
Oct 24 15:52:17 <haeffb> so now we know what jamesderektate's next app will be
Oct 24 15:52:47 <haeffb> it never gets to the SQL statements
Oct 24 15:53:12 <BMyers> o
Oct 24 15:53:20 <haeffb> changeVersion throws the error before it does the executeSql
Oct 24 15:53:35 <BMyers> try/catch?
Oct 24 15:53:52 <jamesderektate> hehe
Oct 24 15:53:56 <jamesderektate> i have about 13 apps right now
Oct 24 15:54:12 <sugardave> haeffb: hmmm
Oct 24 15:54:26 <haeffb> log: http://webos.pastebin.com/jDzKCaD2
Oct 24 15:58:30 <BMyers> its not the sql? have you tried a simple select there just to make sure everything else is good?
Oct 24 15:58:34 <sugardave> haeffb: I'm stumped, I need to go for a bit and then I'll see if I can do a changeVersion here
Oct 24 15:59:13 <haeffb> BMyers: the log in the executeSQL never shows up.
Oct 24 15:59:31 <BMyers> line #2 you mean?
Oct 24 15:59:43 <haeffb> er. before the executeSql
Oct 24 15:59:45 <sugardave> if changeVersion is broken, you could always update the version directly in the db
Oct 24 16:00:05 <haeffb> line 23
Oct 24 16:01:23 <swisstomcat> jamesderektate: awesome!
Oct 24 16:02:01 <haeffb> docs for changeVersion: http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/iPhone/Conceptual/SafariJSDatabaseGuide/UsingtheJavascriptDatabase/UsingtheJavascriptDatabase.html
Oct 24 16:02:13 <haeffb> down toward the bottom
Oct 24 16:04:55 <LoneStar99> morning all
Oct 24 16:05:37 <BMyers> log oldVersion on line 20/21
Oct 24 16:06:04 <BMyers> ?
Oct 24 16:06:10 <BMyers> just to be sure
Oct 24 16:07:18 <BMyers> WAG
Oct 24 16:10:37 <haeffb> it's 0.2
Oct 24 16:11:15 <haeffb> I log it when I openDatabase and in the changeVersion failure
Oct 24 16:11:24 <haeffb> and it's 0.2 in both places
Oct 24 16:11:33 <BMyers> gotta start somewhere
Oct 24 16:11:38 <haeffb> I think webOS just doesn't like me
Oct 24 16:11:55 <BMyers> i agree with you buts lets see if we can get it working anyway
Oct 24 16:13:01 <BMyers> so u never see line 23 right? sqlString
Oct 24 16:13:01 <JenP> lol
Oct 24 16:21:34 <BMyers> haeffb:  have you tried '' for the first param of changeVersion ?
Oct 24 16:22:05 <haeffb> never see line 23
Oct 24 16:22:41 <haeffb> and I've tried eliminating the transaction.executeSql and just put a Mojo.Log in there and nothing.
Oct 24 16:22:59 <BMyers> new line 21: database.changeVersion ('', version,
Oct 24 16:23:16 <haeffb> and '' gives the same error
Oct 24 16:23:31 <BMyers> NULL ?
Oct 24 16:24:41 <haeffb> error: Uncaught TypeError: The old and new versions must be strings.
Oct 24 16:25:15 <BMyers> i concur with your assessment then.
Oct 24 16:25:20 <BMyers> webos hates you..
Oct 24 16:26:26 <BMyers> run agentransack on palm source for changeVersion ?
Oct 24 16:27:15 <haeffb> who is agentransack?
Oct 24 16:27:33 <BMyers> super grep for windows
Oct 24 16:28:01 <BMyers> can search *.js in palm source folder for changeVersion text
Oct 24 16:28:22 <BMyers> http://www.mythicsoft.com/page.aspx?type=agentransack&page=home
Oct 24 16:28:27 <BMyers> awesome prg
Oct 24 16:29:00 <BMyers> trying to find if/where palm has an example for you
Oct 24 16:30:32 <haeffb> ransacking now
Oct 24 16:31:00 <BMyers> get any hits?
Oct 24 16:32:45 <haeffb> webkit.dll
Oct 24 16:32:52 <haeffb> not gonna help
Oct 24 16:33:29 <BMyers> yeah could have limited it to .js
Oct 24 16:33:35 <BMyers> but no. that wont help
Oct 24 16:33:50 <haeffb> and the error string is only found in webkit.dll
Oct 24 16:34:11 <BMyers> changeVersion isnt found anywhere?
Oct 24 16:34:22 <BMyers> make sure you get case sensitive right
Oct 24 16:37:34 <BMyers> i would think they used it somewhere
Oct 24 16:37:54 <BMyers> if not, see if the do it by hand and change the schema like sugardave said
Oct 24 16:40:22 <BMyers> version of webos you are trying this on? haeffb  ?
Oct 24 16:41:00 <haeffb> 1.4.5
Oct 24 16:41:37 <haeffb> I will try it on another version and see what happens
Oct 24 16:41:54 <BMyers> changeVersion seems to have been added in 1.4
Oct 24 16:42:08 <haeffb> yep
Oct 24 16:44:56 <BMyers> nope, it just hates you haeffb . and after all you've done for webos..
Oct 24 16:45:31 <haeffb> hmmm...it does work in another version
Oct 24 16:45:51 <BMyers> previous to 1.4.5?
Oct 24 16:46:00 <BMyers> or
Oct 24 16:46:02 <BMyers> gulp
Oct 24 16:46:05 <haeffb> I cannot say
Oct 24 16:46:08 <BMyers> after 1.4.5?
Oct 24 16:46:29 <haeffb> sigh
Oct 24 16:46:45 <BMyers> France is nice this time of year
Oct 24 16:47:03 <loic_m> (not today)
Oct 24 16:47:14 <haeffb> but I do still have 1.4.1 installed on emu
Oct 24 16:47:56 <BMyers> well you can wait until not 1.4.5 is released or hammer the schema like sugardave  said
Oct 24 16:50:00 <sugardave> haeffb: it now comes down to the question of who you are looking for:  Mr. Right or Mr. Right Now?
Oct 24 16:50:23 * sugardave has a feeling changeVersionb is broken.
Oct 24 16:50:50 <BMyers> i was looking for Mrs Right and found her
Oct 24 16:51:02 <BMyers> but i didnt know her first name was Always..
Oct 24 16:51:03 <haeffb> works in 1.4.1
Oct 24 16:51:03 <sugardave> awww
Oct 24 16:51:07 <sugardave> that's so sweet
Oct 24 16:51:23 <sugardave> broken in 1.4.5, then...nifty :D
Oct 24 16:51:30 <sugardave> progress!
Oct 24 16:51:55 <haeffb> trying 1.4.5 again
Oct 24 16:54:04 <haeffb> hmm...
Oct 24 16:54:08 <haeffb> works in 1.4.5 now
Oct 24 16:54:12 <sugardave> haeffb: just saw your thread, so with that changed code, do you see the 'Change version called'?
Oct 24 16:54:16 <sugardave> hmmm
Oct 24 16:54:19 <haeffb> I do now
Oct 24 16:54:26 <sugardave> maybe it doesn't like your embedded transaction
Oct 24 16:54:35 <BMyers> yeah
Oct 24 16:54:37 <haeffb> no, that wasn't the issue
Oct 24 16:54:44 <sugardave> but that shouldn't matter
Oct 24 16:54:49 <sugardave> since you're supposed to do that
Oct 24 16:55:01 <sugardave> what is the issue?
Oct 24 16:55:54 <BMyers> issue: webos doesnt like haeffb
Oct 24 16:56:12 <sugardave> heh
Oct 24 16:57:05 <haeffb> not sure yet.
Oct 24 16:58:42 * sugardave tries to glean meaning from rwhitby's last tweet.  "Fail."
Oct 24 17:00:17 <jamesderektate> hey guys
Oct 24 17:00:29 <jamesderektate> anyone know if it's possible to have an icon on the rounded header?
Oct 24 17:00:40 <jamesderektate> not the large one with subtitle... i guess header lite
Oct 24 17:01:37 <haeffb> yes, just add a <div> positioned whereever you'd like
Oct 24 17:02:21 <haeffb> So. When I create the database, if it's new I add one record.
Oct 24 17:02:37 <haeffb> If I never add any other records, the changeVersion fails. If I add others, it works.
Oct 24 17:02:51 * sugardave considers signing up with ChipIn and begging for donations to DevDay.
Oct 24 17:03:03 <sugardave> haeffb: that is weird
Oct 24 17:03:18 <haeffb> i.e. if I install old version, then run version with changeVersion. fail.
Oct 24 17:03:35 <haeffb> If i install, then add some more data, then run version with changeVerion, success
Oct 24 17:08:43 <haeffb> very close now.
Oct 24 17:08:56 <haeffb> gotta quit to go play bball. I hate when that happens.
Oct 24 17:09:09 <sugardave> enlightement
Oct 24 17:10:18 <haeffb> BMyers: where is my database on emu?
Oct 24 17:10:40 <BMyers> same place isnt it?
Oct 24 17:10:44 <sugardave> haeffb: internal or external?
Oct 24 17:10:57 <haeffb> ext
Oct 24 17:11:10 <sugardave> /media/internal/.app-storage/someotherhougepath
Oct 24 17:12:26 <jamesderektate> got it
Oct 24 17:12:32 <jamesderektate> something Ares can't do yet ^_^
Oct 24 17:15:14 <jamesderektate> question for the 'my apps' page
Oct 24 17:15:19 <jamesderektate> is "downloads" the number of purchases?
Oct 24 17:15:23 <jamesderektate> or does it include update downloads..
Oct 24 17:15:38 <haeffb> how do I see what columns are in the table?
Oct 24 17:15:49 <haeffb> in sqlite3?
Oct 24 17:15:57 <sugardave> .schema [tablename]
Oct 24 17:16:04 <sugardave> or .schema will show all of them
Oct 24 17:16:31 <sugardave> jamesderektate: on the dev page, settled downloads means unique purchases
Oct 24 17:16:47 <jamesderektate> great
Oct 24 17:16:47 <haeffb> interesting
Oct 24 17:16:57 <haeffb> the new columns are in there, but the data types are not
Oct 24 17:17:18 <haeffb> CREATE TABLE 'notes' (value TEXT PRIMARY KEY, note TEXT, deleted TEXT, created INTEGER, modified INTEGER, key TEXT, custom STRING, syncnum, version, minversion, sharekey, publishkey, tags, systemtags);
Oct 24 17:17:57 <sugardave> that doesn't look good
Oct 24 17:18:18 <haeffb> yeah, probably not
Oct 24 17:18:24 <haeffb> version is updated, though
Oct 24 17:18:27 <sugardave> woo!
Oct 24 17:18:47 * sugardave starts making his case on the ChipIn page.
Oct 24 17:18:59 <sugardave> help me sell myself
Oct 24 17:19:33 <BMyers> sugardave:  i will donate all the sales proceeds from my guyrules app
Oct 24 17:20:07 <sugardave> awww, that's nice, better push an update
Oct 24 17:20:17 <sugardave> 2 * original price to help sugardave
Oct 24 17:20:29 <BMyers> i'll dbl the price
Oct 24 17:20:33 <haeffb> it's a trap!
Oct 24 17:20:47 <BMyers> i thought you were leaving
Oct 24 17:21:00 <haeffb> oh. duh. I didn't add the data types to the ALTER TABLE statements
Oct 24 17:21:21 <haeffb> probably need to add default values as well, eh?
Oct 24 17:21:24 <BMyers> you mean it doesnt just KNOW what you intend?
Oct 24 17:21:30 <sugardave> ooops
Oct 24 17:21:32 <haeffb> inorite?
Oct 24 17:21:37 <sugardave> here's what I have so far: http://webos.pastebin.com/81sK7Hvg
Oct 24 17:22:23 <haeffb> "proselytizing" - isn't that illegal in Texas?
Oct 24 17:22:31 <sugardave> probably
Oct 24 17:22:39 <sugardave> but, here is my caring level:  0
Oct 24 17:22:57 <BMyers> texas is a pumpkin state isnt it?
Oct 24 17:23:02 <MetaView> sugardave: you better stay home
Oct 24 17:23:05 <sugardave> what else do I do?
Oct 24 17:23:17 <sugardave> MetaView: I don't want to stay home :(  I want to go :)
Oct 24 17:23:19 <haeffb> blame oil ?
Oct 24 17:23:24 <BMyers> blame oil..
Oct 24 17:23:28 <MetaView> when is this dev day?
Oct 24 17:23:34 <BMyers> when in doubt..
Oct 24 17:23:35 <haeffb> Nov 19-20
Oct 24 17:23:45 <MetaView> stil a month to go?
Oct 24 17:23:54 <haeffb> fight for truth, justice and the American way ?
Oct 24 17:24:07 <MetaView> Palm could invite all webos devs fro mthis chat, we are only 10 or 11
Oct 24 17:24:22 <sugardave> there are 94 people in here :D
Oct 24 17:24:34 <MetaView> mostly sleeping
Oct 24 17:25:33 <JenP> sugardave: what are you trying to do? Sorry I'm joining the party a bit late so you need to catch me up
Oct 24 17:25:34 <MetaView> ppl ask to fix duke... hm
Oct 24 17:26:13 <sugardave> JenP: I'm setting up a ChipIn page to see if I can get some money to go to dev day
Oct 24 17:26:28 <MetaView> what is this chipin page?
Oct 24 17:26:29 <JenP> what's a Chipln page?
Oct 24 17:26:39 <sugardave> it lets people donate to you
Oct 24 17:26:53 <MetaView> do you advertise it?
Oct 24 17:27:04 <sugardave> I will put it on twitter once I get this text done
Oct 24 17:27:23 <MetaView> why no put it as link into your apps?
Oct 24 17:27:32 <sugardave> basically, you add an event, put a deadline, and blast the hell out of the link
Oct 24 17:27:40 <sugardave> MetaView: also a good idea, I just started this plan an hour ago
Oct 24 17:27:53 <MetaView> how much do you need?
Oct 24 17:28:02 <MetaView> where do you live?
Oct 24 17:28:34 <sugardave> last I looked, flights were around $700-$800, and I haven't looked at hotels yet....but, if I get enough for the flight, I can probably swing the hotel costs
Oct 24 17:28:40 <sugardave> MetaView: I live in Austin, TX
Oct 24 17:28:50 <MetaView> you could take the greyhound...
Oct 24 17:28:56 <torchie> anyone who does donations on an app with multiple developers?
Oct 24 17:29:05 <MetaView> I did once from Utah to Pennsylvania
Oct 24 17:29:11 <sugardave> MetaView: I could, but I'
Oct 24 17:29:16 <sugardave> ve got this real job thing
Oct 24 17:29:37 <MetaView> you mean you can't be away for a week?
Oct 24 17:29:42 <sugardave> right
Oct 24 17:29:47 <sugardave> just the weekend
Oct 24 17:29:48 <MetaView> that's a problem, right
Oct 24 17:30:21 <sugardave> If I don't get enough, I'll just donate the proceeds to wosi
Oct 24 17:44:00 <sugardave> okay, we'll see how that goes
Oct 24 18:00:56 * oil looks in backlog for mention, sees its all only "blame oil", dies a little inside
Oct 24 18:02:06 <MetaView> oil: I'm sure it wasn't ment as it sounds...
Oct 24 18:02:06 <sugardave> I didn't blame you, though :D
Oct 24 18:02:25 <MetaView> it was even worse... :p
Oct 24 18:02:33 * sugardave could use some re-tweets.
Oct 24 18:04:21 <MetaView> just a moment
Oct 24 18:04:51 * MetaView is going to give sugardave some retweets
Oct 24 18:04:57 <sugardave> woo!
Oct 24 18:05:37 <MetaView> RT @sugardave: I wanna stay home, don't let me go to this cold NY dev day...
Oct 24 18:05:44 <sugardave> hahaha
Oct 24 18:06:19 <MetaView> new Palm HW in Germany in 1st Q/2011
Oct 24 18:06:25 <BMyers> already a foot of snow on the ground here in NY
Oct 24 18:11:56 <torchie> super device?
Oct 24 18:15:47 <CTLAdvance> BMyers where are you at?
Oct 24 18:16:00 <MetaView> sugardave: now even with working link
Oct 24 18:16:08 <sugardave> MetaView: thanks!
Oct 24 18:16:14 <torchie> it's ocktwoburr!
Oct 24 18:17:47 <maik_> hihi
Oct 24 18:18:01 <sugardave> hello
Oct 24 18:18:34 * sugardave just watched the Browns run a fake punt on their 20 to get to the Saints' 20.
Oct 24 18:18:39 <sugardave> I wish my teams were good
Oct 24 18:21:11 <swisstomcat> speakerrates are in for my talk: http://speakerrate.com/talks/4879-you-know-webos
Oct 24 18:27:34 <sugardave> swisstomcat: tough crowd
Oct 24 18:34:59 * halfhalo can't see
Oct 24 18:35:03 <maik_> I just saw an hp ad on tv for a printer that you could print to from your phone and they were showing a pre with webos
Oct 24 18:35:15 <sugardave> nice
Oct 24 18:35:27 <halfhalo> the stupid fireplace flue thingie closed on me and smoke is pouring in the house
Oct 24 18:35:48 <sugardave> lame
Oct 24 18:36:26 <halfhalo> yup
Oct 24 18:36:39 <halfhalo> even the dog is like "wtf" and went outside
Oct 24 18:41:50 <MetaView> wtf...
Oct 24 18:42:01 <MetaView> I never understand this AdMob thing...
Oct 24 18:42:06 <CTLAdvance> maik - it works by emailing the printer at the moment, nothing built in at this point.
Oct 24 18:42:11 <CTLAdvance> :/
Oct 24 18:42:34 <sugardave> maybe 2.0 has it
Oct 24 18:42:43 <sugardave> WE JUST DON'T KNOW
Oct 24 18:42:44 <MetaView> yesterday incoming: 6.49$
Oct 24 18:43:03 <MetaView> the last 200 days: average: 0.40$
Oct 24 18:43:16 <MetaView> hard to believe
Oct 24 18:43:27 <MetaView> or is it the holiday time in US?
Oct 24 18:43:43 <sugardave> it's almost Halloween
Oct 24 18:43:51 <sugardave> next week
Oct 24 18:44:51 <MetaView> hm
Oct 24 18:45:31 <MetaView> halloween - the day when I stole my kids their sweets...
Oct 24 18:46:27 <sugardave> haha
Oct 24 18:47:58 <hotdp^away> MetaView what happen "yesterday" ?
Oct 24 18:48:04 <hotdp^away> since it rised as much
Oct 24 18:48:59 <MetaView> don't know
Oct 24 18:49:14 <MetaView> nothing, just the eCPM went from <0.5 to 3$
Oct 24 18:49:16 <sugardave> MetaView: maybe it's a bunch of new Pre 2 owners, if your apps are available in France.  I assume they are
Oct 24 18:49:35 <MetaView> yes, but not more clicks, just a better eCPM
Oct 24 18:49:41 <sugardave> more views
Oct 24 18:50:04 <MetaView> means not more users but the companies want to make more ads
Oct 24 18:50:12 <MetaView> no not even more views
Oct 24 18:50:15 <sugardave> I'm just guessing, really....reality9110 was the expert on the various ad networks
Oct 24 18:50:19 <MetaView> everything as usual
Oct 24 18:50:48 <MetaView> it might be the holiday time and companies try to prepare the x-mas buisiness
Oct 24 18:50:52 <sugardave> you don't think they upped the cost-per-impression if your viewing pool went up?
Oct 24 18:50:54 <sugardave> I see
Oct 24 18:50:56 <hotdp^away> ahh but is it not due to some adds give more then others?
Oct 24 18:53:10 <MetaView> as far as i undertsand it it's a bidding process
Oct 24 18:53:30 <MetaView> as ad-suplier you say how much you want to pay per impression
Oct 24 18:53:47 <MetaView> and if there are many ads to show the highest bid wins
Oct 24 18:54:03 <MetaView> more ad-supliers -> more money per click
Oct 24 18:55:20 <jamesderektate> anyone planning to get the pre 2?
Oct 24 18:58:35 <summatusmentis> I'm gonna wait and see what's announced nest year
Oct 24 18:58:59 <MetaView> me too
Oct 24 19:00:13 <summatusmentis> next*
Oct 24 19:00:31 <summatusmentis> I still haven't heard it if the Pre2 is comms board compatible or not
Oct 24 19:00:43 <bpadalino> rumor has it that it is!
Oct 24 19:00:54 <summatusmentis> based on what?
Oct 24 19:01:19 <bpadalino> rumor
Oct 24 19:01:23 <bpadalino> and hearsay
Oct 24 19:01:28 <summatusmentis> I mean, yes, but where are you seeing that?
Oct 24 19:01:32 <summatusmentis> I haven't even seen t
Oct 24 19:01:33 <summatusmentis> it*
Oct 24 19:01:59 <MetaView> comms board compatible? for what?
Oct 24 19:02:10 <sugardave> for Sprint, I think
Oct 24 19:02:14 <summatusmentis> MetaView: taking my sprint comm board, and putting it in the Pr2
Oct 24 19:02:16 <summatusmentis> Pre2*
Oct 24 19:02:57 <summatusmentis> if whatever is released next year doesn't have a keyboard, I'll get the Pre2 then, if I can
Oct 24 19:03:20 <jamesderektate> do you still like physical keyboard?
Oct 24 19:03:48 <summatusmentis> yes, absolutely
Oct 24 19:04:03 <summatusmentis> I type so much faster with physical buttons
Oct 24 19:05:07 <jamesderektate> same
Oct 24 19:05:11 <MetaView> ok
Oct 24 19:05:17 <jamesderektate> i wish the keys were a little bigger on pre
Oct 24 19:05:34 <MetaView> I like the keyboard, isn't that bad, space is a bit hard to use
Oct 24 19:05:39 <renegaid> I use to think that but I can type much faster on a software keypad than I could on he pre
Oct 24 19:05:46 <MetaView> Treo 650 was a nice keyboard
Oct 24 19:05:54 <jamesderektate> do they sell treos anymore?
Oct 24 19:05:56 <jamesderektate> agreed
Oct 24 19:06:02 <summatusmentis> I don't think they do
Oct 24 19:06:05 <MetaView> no, not even the centro, or?
Oct 24 19:06:07 <renegaid> The pre ached my finger tips after a while
Oct 24 19:06:11 <jamesderektate> the first smartphone i ever saw was my friend's treo back in 2004 in hs
Oct 24 19:06:14 <summatusmentis> the centro isn't available either
Oct 24 19:06:17 <MetaView> HW keyboard is nice for one-hand use
Oct 24 19:06:32 <jamesderektate> also, i remember u could buy apps at treonauts back in the day
Oct 24 19:06:33 <jamesderektate> good times
Oct 24 19:06:35 <summatusmentis> MetaView: I like sw keyboards better for one-hand use, personally
Oct 24 19:06:38 <MetaView> renegaid: type with your thumbs
Oct 24 19:07:05 <MetaView> I mean, one hand: hold the device in one hand and type with the thumb of this hand
Oct 24 19:07:11 <renegaid> That is what I used.
Oct 24 19:07:17 <MetaView> this is hard to do on a screen
Oct 24 19:08:03 <summatusmentis> the pre keyboard feels too flat, I feel like I'm gonna drop it when I try to use one hand
Oct 24 19:09:51 <MetaView> right, a Pixi-style device with larger screen
Oct 24 19:13:06 <jamesderektate> hhmm
Oct 24 19:13:38 <jamesderektate> we need more webos devices
Oct 24 19:13:41 <jamesderektate> then people will care
Oct 24 19:14:32 <torchie> 3.7" slate
Oct 24 19:14:33 <jamesderektate> where are the product designers, is the question
Oct 24 19:14:38 <torchie> made of magnesium
Oct 24 19:14:43 <torchie> and tank iron
Oct 24 19:14:50 <summatusmentis> I really want a 10" PalmPad
Oct 24 19:14:57 <summatusmentis> (or whatever they're gonna call it)
Oct 24 19:15:00 <sugardave> that's what....
Oct 24 19:15:03 <sugardave> nevermind
Oct 24 19:15:06 <torchie> and
Oct 24 19:15:07 <torchie> it better
Oct 24 19:15:09 <torchie> have a gyroscope
Oct 24 19:15:16 <jamesderektate> heck, product designers can go to precentral.net and look at the mockups in the latest contest
Oct 24 19:15:48 <jamesderektate> http://www.precentral.net/vote-mock-next-palm-device-contest-needs-you-pick-winner
Oct 24 19:15:53 <summatusmentis> sugardave: was that directed at me? or torchie ?
Oct 24 19:17:33 <torchie> ?
Oct 24 19:30:47 <sugardave> summatusmentis: I was just being random
Oct 24 19:31:20 <summatusmentis> oh
Oct 24 19:31:36 <summatusmentis> ignore me then
Oct 24 19:31:51 <sugardave> k
Oct 24 19:36:28 <jamesderektate> i sure hope the mac never closes off
Oct 24 19:36:31 <jamesderektate> with the new mac app store
Oct 24 19:38:00 <CTLAdvance> Ive been wondering that as well, they might make it so you need to use the app store to install anything, so you dont install makware from the web
Oct 24 19:38:56 <jamesderektate> ive been reading through many articles, many blogs speculating (via google news search)
Oct 24 19:39:08 <jamesderektate> i want people being born today to have an "open" opportunity
Oct 24 19:39:19 <jamesderektate> like we did
Oct 24 19:39:21 <CTLAdvance> I think most of us have said this since the app store became the standard with the iphone
Oct 24 19:39:26 <swisstomcat> sugardave: it was my first public talk, i'm happy with how it went
Oct 24 19:39:31 <jamesderektate> no curation, but consumers voting with their purchases
Oct 24 19:39:39 <jamesderektate> well
Oct 24 19:39:46 <jamesderektate> the phones are a new market, so it isnt a big deal
Oct 24 19:39:57 <summatusmentis> I'm honestly not sure that OS X will go that direction
Oct 24 19:39:58 <sugardave> swisstomcat: cool :D  also remember the old adage about hearing only from the unhappy
Oct 24 19:39:58 <CTLAdvance> Yes, but apple wants to have your money in their pocket as they control your life by telling you what to think
Oct 24 19:40:05 <jamesderektate> because i dont think carriers will let one os become larger than the other... but who knows. carriers just want money and data usage
Oct 24 19:40:19 <jamesderektate> it now looks like Microsoft is the less evil of google and apple
Oct 24 19:40:35 <summatusmentis> imagine trying to install Creative Suite via the app store O_o
Oct 24 19:40:41 <jamesderektate> phones - because they make calls - should have a curated store. i think this makes sense
Oct 24 19:41:02 <jamesderektate> but get this
Oct 24 19:41:08 <jamesderektate> at some large firms, imagine a news widget being banned in the store
Oct 24 19:41:25 <jamesderektate> i know that IT bans most sofware, but inhouse software will have to be run through the store... or maybe even ad-hoc mode?
Oct 24 19:41:28 <jamesderektate> not sure.
Oct 24 19:41:33 <CTLAdvance> Summatusmentis - If you had media and it was approved via app store then I am sure you could install from disc
Oct 24 19:41:43 <CTLAdvance> that wouldnt be hard
Oct 24 19:41:44 <jamesderektate> i know with iOS, you can adhoc apps so i have some apps ive written for myself running on my iphone
Oct 24 19:41:58 <summatusmentis> CTLAdvance: I suppose that's true.
Oct 24 19:42:00 <jamesderektate> but you need to get a new license every 6 months
Oct 24 19:42:01 <jamesderektate> (for the app to cintinue running)
Oct 24 19:42:19 <summatusmentis> I just honestly don't think Apple will entirely remove the "control" aspect of a desktop OS
Oct 24 19:42:24 <summatusmentis> and if they do, I'll go elsewhere
Oct 24 19:43:30 <CTLAdvance> The thing is that the Mac seems to be the easiest to hack into because users seem to think that there is no vulnerability. Closing it off could prevent a stem of malware/adware issues as the user base increases
Oct 24 19:44:07 <jamesderektate> right
Oct 24 19:44:10 <jamesderektate> if ms did this
Oct 24 19:44:44 <jamesderektate> to something different..
Oct 24 19:44:44 <jamesderektate> the future is away from PCs
Oct 24 19:44:44 <jamesderektate> all go away
Oct 24 19:45:35 <CTLAdvance> well the normal people will go away from pcs
Oct 24 19:46:19 <summatusmentis> I mean, yes, closing it off does potentially prevent security breaches
Oct 24 19:46:48 <CTLAdvance> if they prevent users from installing things from the browser etc, it will block alot of it
Oct 24 19:46:49 <summatusmentis> but there's no reason you can't prevent security breaches and give your users control
Oct 24 19:46:51 <jamesderektate_> the future is closed computers
Oct 24 19:48:17 <jamesderektate_> we look back at this time as a very open time in computing
Oct 24 19:49:06 <jamesderektate_> it will be very interesting
Oct 24 19:49:09 <jamesderektate_> anyone see the Ford SDK?
Oct 24 19:49:16 <jamesderektate_> ford cars with apps running in them.
Oct 24 19:49:20 <CTLAdvance> lol
Oct 24 19:49:24 <CTLAdvance> yeah its silverlight
Oct 24 19:49:33 <CTLAdvance> which is really quite good for apps
Oct 24 19:49:36 <jamesderektate_> except.. ford has like 20% marketshare in cars and it aint going to change quickly
Oct 24 19:49:41 <CTLAdvance> and the sdk is bullet prood
Oct 24 19:49:43 <CTLAdvance> proof
Oct 24 19:49:46 <summatusmentis> intersting is not the word I would use for "the future is closed computers"
Oct 24 19:49:55 <jamesderektate_> we can download it later this year looks like
Oct 24 19:50:03 <jamesderektate_> okay
Oct 24 19:50:07 <jamesderektate_> it will be very bland :P
Oct 24 19:50:38 <summatusmentis> "authoritarian"
Oct 24 19:50:59 <CTLAdvance> Think about phones
Oct 24 19:51:26 <CTLAdvance> old winmo was the most flexible system we had, you could download and install from anywhere
Oct 24 19:51:43 <CTLAdvance> then ios came along, not the standard seems to be closed OS
Oct 24 19:52:35 <summatusmentis> it's not only closed OS
Oct 24 19:52:39 <summatusmentis> old winmo was closed
Oct 24 19:52:44 <summatusmentis> this is "closed ecosystem"
Oct 24 19:52:59 <CTLAdvance> thats what I mean, not the source
Oct 24 19:53:07 <summatusmentis> in my mind it's about expanding control beyond where companies have controled in the past
Oct 24 19:53:26 <CTLAdvance> but thats not gonna happen unless we get a bigger market shift
Oct 24 19:53:59 <jamesderektate_> because of deflation in software imo
Oct 24 19:54:02 <jamesderektate_> look at how prices have dropped.
Oct 24 19:54:12 <jamesderektate_> i dont buy microsoft office anymore, i use google docs and openoffice
Oct 24 19:54:34 <jamesderektate_> games are now 99 cents instead of $50
Oct 24 19:54:58 <jamesderektate_> dvd player included with the computer now
Oct 24 19:55:43 <jamesderektate_> *and
Oct 24 19:55:43 <jamesderektate_> so apple can microsoft can begin closing off the OS if they please..
Oct 24 19:55:43 <jamesderektate_> plus, the dust has settled... windows and mac, very little ubuntu/linux..
Oct 24 19:56:52 <summatusmentis> they can start doing so, but closing off the OS/ecosystem means removing choice from users, ultimately
Oct 24 19:57:35 <jamesderektate_> i know
Oct 24 19:57:37 <jamesderektate_> i am opposed to this
Oct 24 19:57:45 <jamesderektate_> but people for some reason now are very much "only care about money"
Oct 24 19:58:08 <jamesderektate_> ultimately, yes, people just overthrow governments/start something new if oppression occurs
Oct 24 19:58:09 <dkirker> wait... very little Linux? hmmm?
Oct 24 19:58:18 <jamesderektate_> (thank goodness)
Oct 24 19:58:25 <jamesderektate_> Ubuntu hasn't really broken through like i thought
Oct 24 19:59:29 <dkirker> Just to clarify, this is for PC OSes, right?
Oct 24 20:01:29 <jamesderektate_> yes
Oct 24 20:01:31 <jamesderektate_> desktop
Oct 24 20:02:28 <dkirker> Ok, cool. I was going to say, linux has taken over the portable and phone market. Though, I am finding that there are a lot of non-Computer Science people around campus that use Linux on their desktop.
Oct 24 20:02:50 <dkirker> not-mainstream, but still used
Oct 24 20:04:08 <summatusmentis> "taken over" the phone market? how do you figure
Oct 24 20:05:18 <summatusmentis> I mean, yes, android is technically linux, but really only at the kernel level
Oct 24 20:05:27 <dkirker> summatusmentis: Android is pretty popular.
Oct 24 20:06:45 <dkirker> I'm not sure how to safely define "Linux" without only referring to the kernel.
Oct 24 20:08:21 <summatusmentis> I mean, that's fair
Oct 24 20:08:48 <summatusmentis> but if we're only considering linux to be the kernel, that says almost nothing about open-ness of the system as a whole
Oct 24 20:11:18 <dkirker> summatusmentis: I agree, but the problem with defining Linux as more than just a kernel is that you get a lot of bleeding (UNIX is similar to, but not, Linux), and a lot of exclusion (TiVo, I believe, is Linux, but not really open). So what I would say is that you have Linux, and then you have Linux+OSS.
Oct 24 20:11:38 <summatusmentis> dkirker: I tend to agree
Oct 24 20:12:03 <dkirker> :)
Oct 24 20:12:20 <summatusmentis> just that people refer to a distro as "linux" as james did earlier
Oct 24 20:14:05 <dkirker> Yeah. That is when things get hard. A distro is just a distro. :/
Oct 24 20:14:40 <summatusmentis> well, yes, and the distinction is important enough, but to most people "linux" == "open"
Oct 24 20:14:43 <LoneStar99> hello everyone!
Oct 24 20:15:27 <summatusmentis> hi
Oct 24 20:15:29 <dkirker> summatusmentis: Yeah, that is why I always have a hard time doing commercial open source development. Because then you get the people that think "open source" = "free, as in beer".
Oct 24 20:16:02 <summatusmentis> I'm sure
Oct 24 20:16:26 <summatusmentis> I feel like I've seen your nick somewhere before dkirker, although it may have just been here a while ago
Oct 24 20:16:54 <dkirker> summatusmentis: It might have been in here a while ago. I used to do a lot of programming back for the PalmOS too.
Oct 24 20:17:25 <summatusmentis> oh, maybe that's where you're from, #palm? (or #palmos? I don't remember)
Oct 24 20:17:53 <dkirker> probably, I used to hang out in #palm.
Oct 24 20:18:30 <summatusmentis> right, me too
Oct 24 20:18:34 <LoneStar99> is #palm still active?
Oct 24 20:18:35 <summatusmentis> sorry, OT
Oct 24 20:18:58 <dkirker> LoneStar99: I think. I stopped hanging out a long time ago.
Oct 24 20:19:22 <dkirker> alright, I should go get ready. Networks program due in about 11 hours....
Oct 24 20:20:41 <LoneStar99> dkirker: oh ok
Oct 24 20:21:02 <LoneStar99> dkirker: good luck with the net program
Oct 24 20:21:37 <dkirker> thanks!
Oct 24 20:38:20 <xbonesx> any themers in the house?
Oct 24 20:43:25 <xbonesx> ok this may not require any knowledge of theming... im trying to edit the global-base.css file, i've notatermed in and trying to run 'vi global-base.css' but it tells me when i try to :wq! after editing that its a read only file system, how can i get around this?
Oct 24 20:43:28 <sugardave> okay, I think I need about $750 to get air fare and a hotel for 2 nights, looks pretty close to the place, too
Oct 24 20:45:26 <SineOt> you need to mount the filesystem as read/write
Oct 24 20:45:36 <SineOt> there's instructions on the webos-internals wiki somewhere
Oct 24 20:46:56 <sugardave> xbonesx: why are you modifying that instead of the app's stylesheet?
Oct 24 20:47:45 <SineOt> he's trying to do a full webos theme, I think
Oct 24 20:47:47 <xbonesx> well i could but i dont want to do it for just one app, i have a few that use the global-base.css for its coclor
Oct 24 20:47:51 <xbonesx> color*
Oct 24 20:47:56 <sugardave> oh I see
Oct 24 20:48:03 <sugardave> internals stuff
Oct 24 20:48:23 <joshua> i think you want #webos-internals then
Oct 24 20:48:40 <CTLAdvance> any one have an issue with luna send hanging on app install via usb
Oct 24 20:48:40 <xbonesx> so i can run a mounting script to mount it too cf, right?
Oct 24 20:48:40 <joshua> http://imgur.com/so8Qr.gif
Oct 24 20:49:05 <xbonesx> nice :D
Oct 24 20:49:16 <SineOt> Er, no.
Oct 24 20:50:24 <xbonesx> well well, im looking around on the website, wish me luck
Oct 24 20:52:04 <SineOt> mount -o remount,rw /
Oct 24 20:52:13 <SineOt> will mount the file system read/write
Oct 24 20:52:28 <SineOt> when you're done,  mount -o remount,ro / will remount it read only
Oct 24 20:53:23 <xbonesx> Sine0t: i dont get it though, last night i was able to change what im trying to change today from novaterm without any extra work... :S weird
Oct 24 20:54:15 * SineOt shrugs
Oct 24 21:10:36 <dawm_> sugardave, whats your twitter
Oct 24 21:10:40 <dawm_> i need to snag a url :)
Oct 24 21:10:45 <sammy> the messaging app (libpurpleadapter) is crashing with a null pointer exception. what's the best way to get more verbosity from it? I have lumberjack installed, and I know it's crashing in the transport callback, but I can't think of anything I've installe
Oct 24 21:10:46 <sammy> d recently that would touch that
Oct 24 21:18:02 <dawm_> sugardave, nvm i found the tweet
Oct 24 21:19:57 <sugardave> dawm_: @sugar_dave just in case :D
Oct 24 21:20:20 <jamesderektate> registered for the nyc meetup
Oct 24 21:20:24 <jamesderektate> anyone else gonna be there?
Oct 24 21:20:31 <sugardave> trying to get there
Oct 24 21:21:16 <dawm_> dave i wish i had some favors that i could use at work, but since i dont actually work for the airline (contracted company) i dont have any strings to pull
Oct 24 21:21:33 <sugardave> dawm_: cool, thanks! :D
Oct 24 21:22:13 <sugardave> hopefully I will get some more retweets later today and tomorrow, I will bring it up again (but not too much ;)
Oct 24 21:22:45 <dawm_> did you 'tip' precentral or WOR at all?
Oct 24 21:24:09 <sugardave> I sent a DM to roy directly, but a tip to precentral might be good, too
Oct 24 21:27:21 <dkirker> Now I wish that I lived closer to NY, and was not in school.
Oct 24 21:27:46 <jamesderektate> dkirker: you develop just for webos?
Oct 24 21:28:19 <dkirker> jamesderektate: At the moment. Yeah. It is all I have time for.
Oct 24 21:28:58 <dkirker> soon, I'll do Android and iOS development, in between school and 2 jobs and a start-up...
Oct 24 21:47:51 <dkirker> sugardave: I'll try to pitch in some money this next week to help you. If you make it, please take lots of pictures for me! :)
Oct 24 21:48:25 <sugardave> dkirker: cool, I appreciate it :D  if you can't, a re-tweet will help, too :D
Oct 24 21:48:51 <dkirker> sugardave: Check your @Mentions on twitter. :)
Oct 24 21:49:26 <sugardave> dkirker: wow, thanks :D
Oct 24 21:50:32 <dkirker> sugardave: sure! I'll try to catch the next one in San Francisco (or Seattle if they do a Seattle one).
Oct 24 21:51:15 <sugardave> I figured I should hedge my bets against one in my local area and try to get to this one
Oct 24 21:51:57 <dkirker> Probably a safe bet. It'd be cool if they gave out a Pre 2.
Oct 24 21:52:07 <sugardave> indeed
Oct 24 21:52:13 <sugardave> that would be awesome
Oct 24 21:53:46 <dkirker> It would be!
Oct 24 21:54:12 <dkirker> I wonder how much the Pre 2 + webOS 2 would differ from a Pre+ + webOS 2...
Oct 24 21:54:28 <dkirker> especially in boot time!
Oct 24 21:54:32 <sugardave> or a minus with 2.0....that's what I'm REAL interested in
Oct 24 21:54:39 <dkirker> ooooo, yeah!
Oct 24 21:54:58 * dkirker waits patiently for news from HP/Palm :D
Oct 24 21:55:03 <sugardave> it'd be like driving the mini-van, then driving a Boxster
Oct 24 21:55:17 <dkirker> that'd be nice!
Oct 24 21:55:23 * dkirker drives a mini-van...
Oct 24 21:55:42 <sugardave> yeah, no Boxster here
Oct 24 22:31:11 <dawm_> i drive a caliber and have a turbo neon in the garage ;p
Oct 24 22:32:37 <CTLAdvance> really, you have a turbo neon?
Oct 24 22:33:06 <dawm_> yeh and not a store bought one (aka SRT-4) :P
Oct 24 22:48:05 <MetaView> good night
Oct 24 22:58:05 <rwhitby> morning
Oct 24 23:01:57 <sugardave> good morning, rwhitby
Oct 24 23:03:17 <dawm_> about to buy a bunchocrap to start my vinyl business.. kinda iffy dropping money on a cutter and supplies
Oct 24 23:04:10 <rwhitby> sugardave: what are your apps?
Oct 24 23:05:06 <sugardave> rwhitby: uh, really simple ones :D  Mind Master, Yule Log, BOFH Excuse Generator, Scan Do!
Oct 24 23:05:23 <sugardave> nothing real earth-shattering
Oct 24 23:05:29 <dawm_> what about that spirit one
Oct 24 23:05:49 <sugardave> oh yeah, the one in beta catalog is iHaveSpirit
Oct 24 23:05:55 <sugardave> school color flasher
Oct 24 23:08:18 <sugardave> rwhitby: too bad I couldn't add Real Time to that list....yet :P
Oct 24 23:14:03 <summatusmentis> a school color flasher?
Oct 24 23:14:17 <summatusmentis> as in, flashes my school colors?
Oct 24 23:14:21 <sugardave> summatusmentis: yeah
Oct 24 23:14:30 <sugardave> ncaa fbs schools
Oct 24 23:14:31 <sugardave> anyway
Oct 24 23:14:37 <sugardave> "division 1"
Oct 24 23:14:37 <summatusmentis> huh, weird
Oct 24 23:15:04 <sugardave> it was a request from a random PreCentral person
Oct 24 23:16:47 <summatusmentis> no judgement
Oct 24 23:17:00 <summatusmentis> that's just not something I would ever consider as an app
Oct 24 23:17:22 <summatusmentis> I wish I had more time for dev stuff
Oct 24 23:18:39 <summatusmentis> what do people use for twitter apps?
Oct 24 23:19:28 * oil uses... the website
Oct 24 23:21:35 * halfhalo uses binary
Oct 24 23:23:31 <rwhitby> sugardave: RT'd
Oct 24 23:24:37 <rwhitby> sugardave: how often does the widget update?  it hasn't registered my $20 yet
Oct 24 23:24:59 <dawm_> it took like 5 minutes to register mine
Oct 24 23:25:07 <dawm_> i think its on a set interval
Oct 24 23:25:44 <nick_oak> hello all
Oct 24 23:36:07 <sugardave> rwhitby: awesome, thank you so much!
Oct 24 23:36:55 * haeffb uses twee
Oct 24 23:37:03 <sugardave> rwhitby: oh no, I'm @sugar_dave on twitter :D
Oct 24 23:39:22 <rwhitby> sugardave: fixed
Oct 24 23:39:34 <sugardave> rwhitby: woo, thanks again
Oct 24 23:39:40 <rwhitby> sugardave: BTW, that's the first payment for Real Time too ;)
Oct 24 23:39:52 <sugardave> hahaha, you got it
Oct 24 23:40:55 <dawm_> there i did it.. bought a vinyl cutter + supplies, i now have to figure out a name for the business since the one i wanted is taken (domain)
Oct 24 23:41:34 <sugardave> dawm_: is this flooring vinyl or something else?
Oct 24 23:41:46 <dawm_> like signs
Oct 24 23:41:52 <dawm_> company logos on vehicles
Oct 24 23:41:57 <dawm_> stickers
Oct 24 23:41:57 <sugardave> ah, I see
Oct 24 23:41:59 <sugardave> yeah
Oct 24 23:42:00 <sugardave> cool
Oct 24 23:42:53 <haeffb> sugardave: I'm in.
Oct 24 23:43:27 <sugardave> haeffb: sweet, thanks :D
Oct 24 23:43:40 * halfhalo would donate if he could
Oct 24 23:43:44 <haeffb> 10%
Oct 24 23:43:55 <sugardave> halfhalo: a retweet helps :D
Oct 24 23:44:05 <sugardave> haeffb: seriously?  damn!
Oct 24 23:44:10 <halfhalo> that involves finding the mouse though...
Oct 24 23:44:19 <haeffb> I didn't do 10%...you're up to 10%
Oct 24 23:44:43 <sugardave> I am?  mine says 4% right now
Oct 24 23:44:47 <dawm_> i figure if i can sell a whole roll of vinyl (24"x10yards) worth of stickers on ebay for $1 each, i could prolly pay for everything i just bought
Oct 24 23:44:55 <haeffb> refresh much?
Oct 24 23:45:00 <sugardave> yeah, I just did :D
Oct 24 23:45:49 <sugardave> on the site it does show 10%, awesome
Oct 24 23:46:15 * haeffb wonders if the changeVersion onSuccess is fired before or after the executeSql onSuccess...
Oct 24 23:50:04 <sugardave> aren't you chaining them so that changeVersion happens after you alter successfully?
Oct 24 23:52:53 <haeffb> yes it is.
Oct 24 23:53:19 <haeffb> changeVersion(oldVer, newVer, function to run, onSuccess, onFailure)
Oct 24 23:53:36 <haeffb> function to run contains the SQLite transactions
Oct 24 23:53:45 <haeffb> which have their own onSuccess
Oct 24 23:53:51 <sugardave> ah
Oct 24 23:54:22 <haeffb> and all the transactions onSuccess (I have 7 ALTER TABLEs) happen before the changeVersion onSuccess
Oct 24 23:54:26 <haeffb> which is nice
Oct 24 23:54:36 <sugardave> but still not working
Oct 24 23:54:37 <sugardave> ?
Oct 24 23:54:42 <haeffb> working
Oct 24 23:54:44 <sugardave> oh
Oct 24 23:54:45 <sugardave> good
Oct 24 23:54:55 <haeffb> how do I exit from sqlite prompt?
Oct 24 23:55:00 <sugardave> ctrl-d
Oct 24 23:55:09 <sugardave> maybe .exit
Oct 24 23:55:20 <haeffb> ctrl-d works. that's obvious
Oct 24 23:56:55 <haeffb> yep, it's all in the new version
Oct 24 23:57:08 <haeffb> .exit also works
Oct 24 23:58:04 <sugardave> cool, now you can write another wiki update :D
Oct 24 23:58:21 <haeffb> well...I'm still not sure how to handle the transition
Oct 24 23:58:52 <haeffb> I mean, I can add all the new fields...
Oct 24 23:59:03 <haeffb> but syncing back to the server may be an issue
Oct 24 23:59:56 <haeffb> guess I have to have a "so you updated, huh?" first sync
Oct 25 00:00:40 <sugardave> this is for Done! ?
Oct 25 00:00:46 <haeffb> Noted
Oct 25 00:01:04 <haeffb> eventually may have to do Done! as well...but so far they haven't changed the API
Oct 25 00:01:22 <haeffb> although they do stuff in their iPhone app that's not in the API. :(
Oct 25 00:01:32 <sugardave> hmmm, shocking
Oct 25 00:01:43 <haeffb> Simplenote now saves a history of notes
Oct 25 00:01:45 <haeffb> versions.
Oct 25 00:01:57 <haeffb> and you can go back to previous versions.
Oct 25 00:02:26 <haeffb> and they added tags
Oct 25 00:02:32 <sugardave> ah revisions, yeah
Oct 25 00:02:34 <haeffb> and "pins" which pin a note to the top of the list
Oct 25 00:02:48 <sugardave> starting to sound like a CMS :D
Oct 25 00:03:01 <haeffb> not quite as "simple" anymore... :)
Oct 25 00:03:07 <sugardave> yeah, no doubt
Oct 25 00:06:09 <sugardave> alright, got a precentral RT, too :D
Oct 25 00:09:33 <haeffb> maybe this will help http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2729590&posted=1#post2729590
Oct 25 00:09:48 <haeffb> my millions of Done! users will be all over this... :)
Oct 25 00:21:05 <JenP> hi all
Oct 25 00:21:30 <JenP> sugardave: ping
Oct 25 00:22:28 <haeffb> sugardave is busy counting all his donations.
Oct 25 00:22:46 <JenP> lol well that's what i was pinging him for...i need the link
Oct 25 00:22:54 <haeffb> http://sugardave.chipin.com/hppalm-developer-day
Oct 25 00:23:07 <JenP> thanks
Oct 25 00:23:32 <haeffb> Contribute to the "Send Sugardave Away" fund
Oct 25 00:23:41 <JenP> hehehe yup
Oct 25 00:24:51 <JenP> oh wow so this things works with paypal? How convienent
Oct 25 00:25:14 <haeffb> so how does ChipIn make money?
Oct 25 00:25:58 <JenP> idk i've never seen anything like this before
Oct 25 00:26:59 <sugardave> thanks y'all!
Oct 25 00:27:06 <JenP> hmmm...maybe I need to make one of these for those new Jimmy Choos I want.
Oct 25 00:27:29 <sugardave> I'm not sure how chipin makes money, I've seen them before in regards to OSS projects, mainly Drupal module requests
Oct 25 00:30:20 <haeffb> I'd guess they just wait, and then take however much they want from your paypal account when you're not looking...
Oct 25 00:30:40 <JenP> lol
Oct 25 00:30:53 * haeffb will start a ChipIn for beer at Dev Day
Oct 25 00:31:25 <JenP> lol
Oct 25 00:34:10 * Tibfib considers making donation thing for pro mojo messenger accounts
Oct 25 00:36:37 <haeffb> JenP: haeffb, sugardave, BMyers, oil, rwhitby, rboatright, Tibfib....someone's missing. Can't quite put my finger on who she might be...
Oct 25 00:37:08 <BMyers> ?
Oct 25 00:37:09 <JenP> huh?
Oct 25 00:37:16 * halfhalo is 75% sure he can go
Oct 25 00:37:23 <JenP> lol yeah halfhalo
Oct 25 00:37:40 * Tibfib is 60% at this point
Oct 25 00:37:40 <BMyers> it's oils fault
Oct 25 00:38:14 <haeffb> that's the list of attendees at Dev Day. Missing someone.
Oct 25 00:39:27 <JenP> well in order to go I'd not only need my own chipin page but also a fairy godmother to come down and make my boss give me time off :-p
Oct 25 00:39:28 <Tibfib> http://twitter.com/#!/Tibfib/status/28643859042
Oct 25 00:39:44 <dkirker> LMAO!!
Oct 25 00:39:55 <halfhalo> I think I'm 100 short still, but working on that
Oct 25 00:40:21 <JenP> Tibfib: LMAO
Oct 25 00:41:18 <dohtem> hello you awesome fanboys :)
Oct 25 00:41:30 <dohtem> (and girls?)
Oct 25 00:41:52 <JenP> thank you....<sniff> I'm always overlooked
Oct 25 00:45:12 <rwhitby> sugardave: weird - the chipin widget still shows only $10 for me, even after refreshing and closing browser.
Oct 25 00:46:06 <rwhitby> sugardave: the overage should go to the bowling beer fund
Oct 25 00:46:09 <sugardave> rwhitby: mine, too, but when I go into the dashboard I'm up to 13%
Oct 25 00:46:49 <sugardave> rwhitby: I think I may have screwed up, when I went and put an amount, it may just close...I'll wait until it's getting close and un-cap it again, and see if it goes over
Oct 25 00:50:23 <dkirker> hmmmm.... $931 is tempting, actually...
Oct 25 00:50:37 <halfhalo> its only 670 for me
Oct 25 00:50:54 <sugardave> Tibfib: :P thanks
Oct 25 00:51:01 <Tibfib> sugardave: :)
Oct 25 00:51:55 <dkirker> halfhalo: I'd have to fly from CA. That is why it is so stinking expensive. The big issue is that I would need to book now, and not when I have money.
Oct 25 00:52:07 * halfhalo is flying from LAX
Oct 25 00:52:11 <sugardave> it is a race against the clock
Oct 25 00:52:19 <dkirker> I can't seem to get a credit card, which would help here...
Oct 25 00:52:33 <dkirker> halfhalo: nifty, I'd have to fly from SLO to LAX
Oct 25 00:53:18 <halfhalo> hah
Oct 25 00:53:32 * halfhalo just has to drive to LAX and pay for parking
Oct 25 00:53:59 <halfhalo> well, If I can go.  I should find out tonight
Oct 25 00:54:24 <BMyers> who had the cheapest hotel stay here? I saw someone get a room in NJ somewhere?
Oct 25 00:54:47 <halfhalo> I plan on staying at the jersey city ramada
Oct 25 00:54:57 <BMyers> right, how much was that?
Oct 25 00:55:03 <halfhalo> like 70 a night, free shuttle to newark, 20 for a cab to the palm thing each way
Oct 25 00:55:08 <dkirker> Yeah. I think I'll just wait until the Bay Area one again. Then I don't have to deal with flying. I can just drive 3 hours. :)
Oct 25 00:55:22 <BMyers> 70 a nite? or per hour?
Oct 25 00:55:23 <Tibfib> halfhalo: that's not bad
Oct 25 00:55:30 <halfhalo> night
Oct 25 00:55:36 <BMyers> with clean sheets?
Oct 25 00:55:39 <dohtem> halfhalo: how much is that cross country flight?
Oct 25 00:55:42 <BMyers> thats pretty cheap
Oct 25 00:55:47 <halfhalo> last I checked 330
Oct 25 00:55:54 <halfhalo> round trip
Oct 25 00:55:59 <dohtem> that's not too bad
Oct 25 00:56:40 <Guest70897> there's a Candlewood in jersey city, very close to PATH and NYC
Oct 25 00:56:48 <halfhalo> heh, I spent 200 round trip driving up to SF for the last devdays
Oct 25 00:57:03 <Tibfib> halfhalo: 120 ish for two people. Not bad
Oct 25 00:57:07 <Tibfib> (for me)
Oct 25 00:57:09 <dkirker> $300 for a flight!?! ow
Oct 25 00:57:11 <sugardave> I stayed at a Candlewood Suites in Denver a few years ago, nice place
Oct 25 00:57:16 <Guest70897> I think its called the candlewood suites hotel
Oct 25 00:57:17 <dkirker> *wow
Oct 25 00:57:55 <halfhalo> oh, and issue with the jersey city hotels is that its like 20 minutes to the palm thing by cab but like 2 hours by subway
Oct 25 00:58:18 <CTLAdvance> if you stay in jersey plan 1 - 2 hours to get to where the event is
Oct 25 00:58:22 <CTLAdvance> if not 3
Oct 25 00:58:30 <CTLAdvance> 2 should be enough
Oct 25 00:58:31 <halfhalo> Its like 5 miles away...
Oct 25 00:58:37 <Guest70897> its not 1 - 2 hours, its like 45 min
Oct 25 00:58:38 * Tibfib could walk
Oct 25 00:58:50 <BMyers> swim
Oct 25 00:58:56 <halfhalo> skip
Oct 25 00:58:57 * Tibfib skip
Oct 25 00:59:00 <CTLAdvance> if you hit traffic you will be stuck
Oct 25 00:59:05 <Guest70897> Im in jersey city and it takes 2 trains to reach downtown
Oct 25 00:59:05 <BMyers> tunnels
Oct 25 00:59:07 <CTLAdvance> though its a saturday
Oct 25 00:59:32 <haeffb> Mizzou #6 in BCS rankings!
Oct 25 00:59:38 <Guest70897> on a saturday the path trains run bit slow, but not that slow
Oct 25 00:59:58 <BMyers> njt?
Oct 25 01:00:23 <sugardave> haeffb: wow, nice
Oct 25 01:00:38 <haeffb> gotta beat NU saturday.
Oct 25 01:00:56 <sugardave> I hate Nebraska
Oct 25 01:01:02 <haeffb> as do we all.
Oct 25 01:01:04 <sugardave> and now they're traitors, too
Oct 25 01:02:09 <haeffb> looking forward to the round-robin schedule next year
Oct 25 01:02:32 <haeffb> I hate the "divisons" crap
Oct 25 01:02:57 <LoneStar99> good evening everyone
Oct 25 01:03:54 <LoneStar99> chargers lost =(
Oct 25 01:05:25 <sugardave> haeffb: I may not know what you are talking about
Oct 25 01:05:32 <sugardave> LoneStar99: I saw that, I was pulling for them
Oct 25 01:06:39 <LoneStar99> did not get to watch the game in mexico now, but saw the score online...
Oct 25 01:06:43 <haeffb> playing all 9 conf teams
Oct 25 01:06:54 <haeffb> instead of the 5 north, 3 south rotation
Oct 25 01:06:55 <sugardave> ah, okay
Oct 25 01:07:05 <sugardave> I guess I missed that
Oct 25 01:07:26 <haeffb> there will be 9 conf games going forward = everybody plays everybody
Oct 25 01:07:36 <sugardave> right
Oct 25 01:07:50 <haeffb> same in basketball
Oct 25 01:07:52 <sugardave> that will be different and fun
Oct 25 01:08:25 <haeffb> will be tougher having to play UT and OU every year, but makes for a more exciting schedule.
Oct 25 01:08:56 <sugardave> yeah, it may be a couple of years before we're regularly fearsome again....we'll see
Oct 25 01:09:07 <sugardave> I just hope we get 2 more wins for a bowl
Oct 25 01:12:51 <LoneStar99> will be back laterz folks
Oct 25 01:20:56 <rwhitby> wow, Preware Homebrew Documentation is now #11 on the Hottest Apps list in the on-device app catalog.
Oct 25 01:21:09 <rwhitby> I wonder what algorithm is being used.
Oct 25 01:21:18 <sugardave> rwhitby: that low? :D
Oct 25 01:22:17 <rwhitby> I Love Homebrew, Angry Birds, drPodder, FlashCards, Moon Info, PowerNap, Beat Box, Saber Ultimate, What's for Dinner? Lite, Precentral News, Preware Homebrew Documentation.
Oct 25 01:23:19 <rwhitby> I need to find some way to turn the 82,000 I Love Homebrew downloads into Preware Homebrew Documentation purchases ... ;)
Oct 25 01:24:22 <haeffb> sugardave: 20%
Oct 25 01:46:36 <CTLAdvance> rwhitby: ping
Oct 25 01:47:04 <rwhitby> CTLAdvance: g'day
Oct 25 01:47:35 <CTLAdvance> hello
Oct 25 02:16:03 <CTLAdvance> I think I scared off rwhitby
Oct 25 02:16:34 <summatusmentis> or maybe he's waiting for you to ask him something
Oct 25 02:28:04 <CTLAdvance> or maybe I already did
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 25 02:59:57 2010