**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 22 02:59:58 2010
Nov 22 03:00:12 <Bmyers> cause they made it that way
Nov 22 03:00:27 <BeeksElectric> rboatwright was telling me about the Pre's development
Nov 22 03:01:01 <knightbane> well the pre2 seems to be on par with the iphone
Nov 22 03:01:18 <Bmyers> you have 1?
Nov 22 03:01:22 <BeeksElectric> webOS went from initial prototype to it's premiere incredibly quickly
Nov 22 03:01:31 <BeeksElectric> like 6-8 months
Nov 22 03:02:02 <Bmyers> there was a wee bit of time from palmOS to webOS
Nov 22 03:02:13 <Bmyers> the whole Access Linux thing
Nov 22 03:02:20 <knightbane> don't have one yet, but that is wht most of the reviews have said, its smooth and lag free
Nov 22 03:02:27 <BeeksElectric> they threw out the second next gen OS too
Nov 22 03:02:36 <Bmyers> i have a pre 2
Nov 22 03:02:44 <BeeksElectric> supposedly they were originally doing an Android variant
Nov 22 03:03:47 <knightbane> bmyer is ui on pre 2 smoother then the old one
Nov 22 03:04:14 <Bmyers> its clocked at 1ghz so thats a help
Nov 22 03:04:37 <donc> knightbane: the scrolling is smooth on the pre2, I think it's on par with my iPhone.  I haven't used the original pre.
Nov 22 03:05:25 <Bmyers> i going to put them side by side with my app, gimme a few minutes
Nov 22 03:05:27 <knightbane> well even after oc my pre - to 1ghz it still has a slight lag
Nov 22 03:05:42 <Bmyers> overclocked pre2 should be even better
Nov 22 03:07:02 <Bmyers> sugardave:  ping
Nov 22 03:07:14 <knightbane> to be honest i rather it be fast from stock
Nov 22 03:07:22 <Bmyers> agreed
Nov 22 03:07:49 <Bmyers> if you need to have overclocked so that your app doesnt lag, it's too laggy.
Nov 22 03:08:24 <torchie> twee2
Nov 22 03:08:24 <torchie> :(
Nov 22 03:09:16 <knightbane> btw who is the head of the design team now @ palm now that silverman has left
Nov 22 03:09:37 <Bmyers> the nokia guy?
Nov 22 03:13:03 <knightbane> hope this guy does a better job in choosing the right materials for the next webos phone. plastic should b banned
Nov 22 03:13:18 <Wolvenhaven> make it out of human bone
Nov 22 03:13:27 <knightbane> lol
Nov 22 03:13:31 <Wolvenhaven> or eagle beaks
Nov 22 03:13:38 <Wolvenhaven> or unobtanium
Nov 22 03:14:15 <Bmyers> in that respect. HP will have been the best thing to ever happen to Palm
Nov 22 03:14:22 <Wolvenhaven> hmm
Nov 22 03:14:46 <Wolvenhaven> yea, cause i was just thinking
Nov 22 03:14:49 <Bmyers> HP does have some experience with good hardware.
Nov 22 03:14:51 <Wolvenhaven> all my treos
Nov 22 03:14:55 <Wolvenhaven> the plastic was crap
Nov 22 03:14:56 <sugardave> Bmyers: pong
Nov 22 03:14:58 <knightbane> hp envy laptop r nice though...
Nov 22 03:15:07 <Bmyers> sugardave: !!!!
Nov 22 03:15:11 <sugardave> BMYERS
Nov 22 03:15:13 <sugardave> !!
Nov 22 03:15:19 <Bmyers> happy to be home
Nov 22 03:15:20 <halfhalo> RUN
Nov 22 03:15:42 <sugardave> I am, yes, it was a long day
Nov 22 03:15:44 <iWinRar> how is the pre 2?
Nov 22 03:15:53 <sugardave> awe sum
Nov 22 03:15:58 <sugardave> (that joke never gets old)
Nov 22 03:16:27 <Bmyers> sugardave:  i am charging up my pre- and going to put the two side by side with my app
Nov 22 03:16:39 <Bmyers> see if there is a noticeable difference
Nov 22 03:16:50 <sugardave> sweet, I will be doing that as well
Nov 22 03:16:59 <sugardave> I have all the Pres now
Nov 22 03:17:39 <Bmyers> i missed out. stop sticking my nose it, ok?
Nov 22 03:17:42 <knightbane> how is the sppe
Nov 22 03:17:43 <sugardave> haha
Nov 22 03:17:46 <knightbane> speed
Nov 22 03:18:36 <sugardave> the launcher pages on my - always feel "hesitant"
Nov 22 03:19:29 <sugardave> but on the Pre 2, it seems like it's stuck to my finger and moves perfectly smooth
Nov 22 03:19:42 <sugardave> so far I only have Preware and wirc on the 2
Nov 22 03:19:57 <knightbane> no angrybirds
Nov 22 03:19:59 <Bmyers> right
Nov 22 03:20:07 <sugardave> nope :D
Nov 22 03:20:48 <knightbane> is still true 2.0 doesn't use the gpu
Nov 22 03:21:00 <Bmyers> true
Nov 22 03:21:10 <Bmyers> "soon"
Nov 22 03:24:15 <Bmyers> sugardave: you take any pics that you'll be putty up somewhere of devdays?
Nov 22 03:24:25 <Bmyers> s/putty/putting
Nov 22 03:26:08 <MBarvian_Pre> what's the best way to create smooth animations with web technologies? hows mojo.animation?
Nov 22 03:26:43 <MBarvian_Pre> I've tried CSS and javascript, but they only spit out like 5 fps
Nov 22 03:27:27 <wastrel> what about this canvas business my friend won't shut up about
Nov 22 03:27:39 <sugardave> I Bmyers I took about 5 pictures at the bowling alley
Nov 22 03:27:45 <sugardave> and they are all too dark
Nov 22 03:28:04 <sugardave> I should have taken pics of you guys bowling
Nov 22 03:28:10 <MBarvian_Pre> wastrel: I've never actually looked into it. seems like it's made more for games, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong
Nov 22 03:28:11 <sugardave> I suck at remembering to take pictures
Nov 22 03:29:10 <Bmyers> just wondering...
Nov 22 03:29:16 <Bmyers> i only took a few also
Nov 22 03:29:24 <Bmyers> thought we could pool them together
Nov 22 03:29:45 <sugardave> MBarvian_Pre: I've seen people complain about Mojo.Animation, but I don't know anything about it
Nov 22 03:30:00 <Bmyers> launching one of my apps is noticeably faster
Nov 22 03:30:08 <MBarvian_Pre> sugardave: what would you recommend?
Nov 22 03:30:12 <MBarvian_Pre> :)
Nov 22 03:30:31 <Bmyers> but as far as running it, it's about the same. for my app (not too complicated)
Nov 22 03:31:16 <sugardave> Bmyers: sure I will put them up somewhere and point you to them, I wouldn't expect much :D
Nov 22 03:31:22 <Tibfib> dang I wish I didn't suck at graphics
Nov 22 03:31:22 <Bmyers> MBarvian_Pre: stick to CSS where you can
Nov 22 03:31:28 <Tibfib> and css
Nov 22 03:31:37 <sugardave> if you can even make anyone out, I probably don't even know who they are ;)
Nov 22 03:32:21 <MBarvian_Pre> BMyers: really? I got pretty bad results with that. but I guess that's best since they'll be hardware accelerated in 2.0 right?
Nov 22 03:32:24 <sugardave> oh, I did take a couple of some of those HP pics they were showing over the pins
Nov 22 03:33:02 <Bmyers> MBarvian_Pre: yes AFAIR the CSS stuff is V8 so should be pretty good
Nov 22 03:33:28 <MBarvian_Pre> BMyers: alright. thanks for the suggestion!
Nov 22 03:33:33 <Bmyers> sugardave: post 'em up somewhere just for S&G's
Nov 22 03:33:49 <Bmyers> MBarvian_Pre:  yw
Nov 22 03:34:04 * haeffb HOME!
Nov 22 03:34:06 <sugardave> MBarvian_Pre: depending on what you're trying to accomplish, canvas might be a good thing to look at
Nov 22 03:34:09 <sugardave> HAEFFB!!!
Nov 22 03:34:14 <Bmyers> also, another reason to use CSS is that you wont be using mojo..
Nov 22 03:34:17 <haeffb> sugardave!!!!
Nov 22 03:34:22 <haeffb> Bmyers!!!!
Nov 22 03:34:25 <Bmyers> haeffb: !!!!!
Nov 22 03:34:35 <Bmyers> welcome back kotter
Nov 22 03:34:36 <sugardave> has anybody seen HOTDP?
Nov 22 03:34:41 <Bmyers> :)..
Nov 22 03:34:49 <Bmyers> b4 he left town i talked to him
Nov 22 03:35:18 <sugardave> cool
Nov 22 03:35:25 <sugardave> heh
Nov 22 03:35:27 <MBarvian_Pre> sugardave: can you give me some examples of what canvas is good for? right now I just want some smooth 2d transitions
Nov 22 03:35:29 <Pomtini> ha ha
Nov 22 03:35:39 <Pomtini> no no.. wait...
Nov 22 03:35:48 <Palmtini> there ya go
Nov 22 03:36:24 <Palmtini> that might have to be my new nick
Nov 22 03:36:55 <sugardave> MBarvian_Pre: basically you use the canvas to draw squares, arcs, etc...you can load images into it, I think.  It's basically just a 2d drawing area you can manipulate
Nov 22 03:37:10 <Palmtini> graphing...
Nov 22 03:37:14 <sugardave> I'm totally not the guy to ask anything about graphics, though
Nov 22 03:37:47 <Palmtini> i used a flotr fork in one of my apps for graphing into canvas
Nov 22 03:38:03 <sugardave> somebody was in here asking if that would work
Nov 22 03:38:06 <sugardave> ...
Nov 22 03:38:12 <Palmtini> it did..
Nov 22 03:38:12 <sugardave> hemna, I think it was
Nov 22 03:38:20 <MBarvian_Pre> Palmtini: I've got graphing covered :)
Nov 22 03:38:23 <Palmtini> i had to change it a little
Nov 22 03:38:31 <Palmtini> oh right...
Nov 22 03:38:38 <Palmtini> yes, they look just fine..
Nov 22 03:38:52 <MBarvian_Pre> Palmtini: what do?
Nov 22 03:38:59 <Palmtini> your graphs
Nov 22 03:39:19 <MBarvian_Pre> Palmtini: oh. how do you know?
Nov 22 03:39:32 <Palmtini> cause you showed me them?
Nov 22 03:39:46 <Palmtini> it's oil's fault anyway..
Nov 22 03:39:53 * oil made it home
Nov 22 03:39:58 <sugardave> yay oil!
Nov 22 03:40:01 <Palmtini> oil !!!!
Nov 22 03:40:06 * oil is like, ready to pass out
Nov 22 03:40:14 <Palmtini> i'm sure
Nov 22 03:40:17 <oil> lol
Nov 22 03:40:22 <halfhalo> and yet, your on irc...
Nov 22 03:40:26 <sugardave> heh
Nov 22 03:40:28 <oil> well, ofcourse
Nov 22 03:40:43 <oil> one of my webos glasses didn't make it :(
Nov 22 03:40:55 <Palmtini> set you stuck with a set of 7?
Nov 22 03:40:56 <sugardave> :(
Nov 22 03:40:57 <oil> bastards putting my bag in the bottom
Nov 22 03:41:06 <oil> like, im on the ramp, see the door of the plane
Nov 22 03:41:06 <doc_lee> Lord...jquery
Nov 22 03:41:07 <MBarvian_Pre> Palmtini: sorry lol. don't remember. thanks though
Nov 22 03:41:15 <doc_lee> So close to getting this done
Nov 22 03:41:18 <oil> and they're all "overhead space is gone, we need to check all these!"
Nov 22 03:41:19 <doc_lee> Yet, so far
Nov 22 03:41:23 <doc_lee> It's the simple crap
Nov 22 03:41:30 <sugardave> oil: that sucks
Nov 22 03:41:41 <oil> yeah
Nov 22 03:41:45 <oil> at least one made it though
Nov 22 03:42:21 <sugardave> I have 2, I had checked them but wrapped in some socks so they made it
Nov 22 03:42:34 <oil> i had mine wrapped in tshirts
Nov 22 03:42:44 <oil> i think its beceause they opened the hatch and tossed it from the ground, lol
Nov 22 03:42:53 <sugardave> that's probably it :D
Nov 22 03:43:04 <Palmtini> did you empty out the beer first oil ?
Nov 22 03:43:16 <sugardave> doc_lee: I know nothing about jquery or I'd offer to help
Nov 22 03:43:16 <oil> yes
Nov 22 03:43:43 <MBarvian_Pre> doc_lee: what's the problem?
Nov 22 03:45:38 <doc_lee> If I have <li><ul></ul></li> and I've defined <li> as $(this), how do I define <ul> relative to $(this)...if that makes sense.
Nov 22 03:46:02 <doc_lee> I need something like $(this).child or something similar
Nov 22 03:46:56 <MBarvian_Pre> ah. I think there's a child selector. I'd look at the selectors documentation
Nov 22 03:47:09 <doc_lee> I have been for about four days now
Nov 22 03:47:30 <MBarvian_Pre> doc_lee: hold on lol
Nov 22 03:47:43 <doc_lee> Ah...I think I found it
Nov 22 03:48:08 <doc_lee> jQuery("ul" this);
Nov 22 03:48:14 <doc_lee> common between them
Nov 22 03:48:23 <MBarvian_Pre> doc_lee: let me know if you do. I couldve sworn I saw something like it
Nov 22 03:48:26 <haeffb> oil!!!!
Nov 22 03:48:37 <oil> hey
Nov 22 03:49:46 <haeffb> I beat you by about six minutes.
Nov 22 03:49:56 <haeffb> I'm about ready to drop as well.
Nov 22 03:49:59 <MBarvian_Pre> doclee: try (this > "ul")
Nov 22 03:50:09 <doc_lee> One sec.
Nov 22 03:50:38 <sugardave> that looks like weirdo css selectors
Nov 22 03:51:02 <MBarvian_Pre> yeah it does. jquery does some weird stuff when it comes to selectors
Nov 22 03:51:13 <doc_lee> I don't think that's working
Nov 22 03:51:17 <MBarvian_Pre> very powerful though
Nov 22 03:51:39 <MBarvian_Pre> doc_lee: how do you define this?
Nov 22 03:52:07 <doc_lee> Based off the li that is clicked
Nov 22 03:52:45 <doc_lee> http://pastebin.com/S0akFLuD
Nov 22 03:53:35 <oil> who here has a pre+?
Nov 22 03:53:48 <haeffb> not I
Nov 22 03:53:55 <doc_lee> I don't even have a pre
Nov 22 03:53:56 <MBarvian_Pre> oil: I
Nov 22 03:53:57 <haeffb> but I have a pre2 !!!
Nov 22 03:54:08 <MBarvian_Pre> haeffb: :0
Nov 22 03:54:18 <haeffb> I think I may be able to get t activated on the local GSM company
Nov 22 03:54:20 <oil> MBarvian_Pre: when you have an app up, is the gesture light on?
Nov 22 03:54:28 <oil> but not in card view
Nov 22 03:54:53 <MBarvian_Pre> oil: some yes
Nov 22 03:55:01 <MBarvian_Pre> oil: not wirc
Nov 22 03:55:02 <oil> hm
Nov 22 03:55:40 <MBarvian_Pre> oil: but most others yeah. why?
Nov 22 03:55:58 <oil> just wondering if it was a pre2 or webos2 thing
Nov 22 03:56:12 <oil> certainly doesnt happen on my pre-
Nov 22 03:56:16 <MBarvian_Pre> oil: do you have a Pre2
Nov 22 03:56:22 <oil> yep
Nov 22 03:56:36 <haeffb> MBarvian_Pre: everyone who attended dev day has one
Nov 22 03:56:39 <MBarvian_Pre> haha. pre-. hows the Pre2 and webos2?
Nov 22 03:56:44 <oil> awesome
Nov 22 03:56:45 <haeffb> awesome
Nov 22 03:56:49 <Palmtini> opre
Nov 22 03:56:53 <MBarvian_Pre> haeffb: lol did they pass em out or something?
Nov 22 03:56:57 <haeffb> yep
Nov 22 03:57:05 <Palmtini> it was a "raffle"
Nov 22 03:57:08 <MBarvian_Pre> haeffb: seriously?
Nov 22 03:57:14 <haeffb> free phone for you! free phone for you! free phone for everyone!
Nov 22 03:57:23 <oil> and my raffle, they meant, oprah-style giveaway
Nov 22 03:57:24 <Palmtini> opra style raffle
Nov 22 03:57:28 <oil> haha
Nov 22 03:57:29 <MBarvian_Pre> how is it? I gotta know lol
Nov 22 03:57:35 <oil> its awesome
Nov 22 03:57:36 <haeffb> awesome
Nov 22 03:57:38 <oil> i wish i was on gsm
Nov 22 03:57:42 <haeffb> me too
Nov 22 03:57:46 <Palmtini> it's the best thing since sliced sex..
Nov 22 03:58:08 <mugen[bounced]> o.O
Nov 22 03:58:24 <Palmtini> i kinda feel it's what the pre - should have been
Nov 22 03:58:25 <haeffb> It's a pre that's faster, looks more durable, has some neat webOS 2.0 features.
Nov 22 03:58:27 <sugardave> omg bad news guys
Nov 22 03:58:31 <MBarvian_Pre> haha. it looks amazing
Nov 22 03:58:34 <sugardave> Yule Log is busted on the 2
Nov 22 03:58:35 <mugen[bounced]> dave, ???
Nov 22 03:58:39 <haeffb> NO!!!!
Nov 22 03:58:39 <JenP> hi guys!
Nov 22 03:58:40 <mugen[bounced]> wtf
Nov 22 03:58:41 <Palmtini> oh no!!
Nov 22 03:58:51 <sugardave> going to force me to use the crappy videos I made as replacements
Nov 22 03:58:53 <MBarvian_Pre> what's that? lol
Nov 22 03:58:53 <haeffb> JenP: you SHOULDA gone to dev day!
Nov 22 03:59:04 <JenP> i know!!! I'm so jealous!
Nov 22 03:59:08 <sugardave> JenP: hi!  yes, you should have gone!
Nov 22 03:59:09 <MBarvian_Pre> man I shouldve gone to dev day
Nov 22 03:59:20 <oil> you would have added to the woman quotent
Nov 22 03:59:20 <haeffb> everyone should have gone. It was a fantastic weekend.
Nov 22 03:59:23 <oil> which was quite lacking
Nov 22 03:59:25 <Palmtini> i wish i brought my wife to dev day, or son
Nov 22 03:59:30 <sugardave> hey, only 2 options when plugging in the usb now
Nov 22 03:59:31 * oil bets <1%
Nov 22 03:59:33 <MBarvian_Pre> sounds great
Nov 22 03:59:47 <JenP> well even if I had planned to go I'd have to cancel. had a death in the family
Nov 22 03:59:58 <oil> ;(
Nov 22 03:59:59 <sugardave> JenP: oh no, that sucks :(
Nov 22 04:00:03 <Palmtini> oh, sorry to hear that JenP
Nov 22 04:00:05 <JenP> it's ok. thanks
Nov 22 04:00:06 <MBarvian_Pre> JenP sorry to hear that
Nov 22 04:00:07 <haeffb> Palmtini and I noticed a number of people who got two Pres by bringing along another family member "developer"
Nov 22 04:00:14 <JenP> so how many girls were there?
Nov 22 04:00:14 * oil hears "downer debbie" music
Nov 22 04:00:17 <haeffb> JenP: Sorry to hear that.!
Nov 22 04:00:18 <haeffb> 3
Nov 22 04:00:21 <haeffb> or 10
Nov 22 04:00:23 <JenP> thanks guys
Nov 22 04:00:24 <haeffb> or something.
Nov 22 04:00:28 <haeffb> I didn't really count
Nov 22 04:00:40 <JenP> damn with those odds i could have totally scored LOL
Nov 22 04:00:42 <oil> adora, acarback
Nov 22 04:00:46 <mugen[bounced]> LOL
Nov 22 04:00:46 <MBarvian_Pre> how many people were there altogether?
Nov 22 04:00:49 <sugardave> lol
Nov 22 04:00:50 <oil> a few that i didn't know
Nov 22 04:00:52 <haeffb> 300 ?
Nov 22 04:01:01 <sugardave> I guessed 200-300
Nov 22 04:01:12 <MBarvian_Pre> cool
Nov 22 04:01:22 <oil> lets just say, a lot more were there the day they gave away pre2s then the day before, haha
Nov 22 04:01:29 <MBarvian_Pre> I saw enyo.  looka really cool
Nov 22 04:01:36 <MBarvian_Pre> oil: lol
Nov 22 04:01:42 <sugardave> I implore you all to put "Austin, TX" in the "where do you want to do the next Dev Day" question in the survye
Nov 22 04:01:53 <oil> seattle!
Nov 22 04:01:56 <haeffb> Austin would rock.
Nov 22 04:01:57 <oil> they gotta hit all 4 corners!
Nov 22 04:01:58 <MBarvian_Pre> chicago!
Nov 22 04:01:58 <JenP> i'm so jealous you guys got pre2's
Nov 22 04:01:59 <Palmtini> NY!!
Nov 22 04:02:09 <Palmtini> oh wait, it WAS in NY..
Nov 22 04:02:10 <Palmtini> nm
Nov 22 04:02:22 <haeffb> chicago would rock as well
Nov 22 04:02:27 <MBarvian_Pre> I agree
Nov 22 04:02:48 <sugardave> just remember, going to have to fly into and out of O'Hare
Nov 22 04:02:58 * oil tried to explain devdays to a friend, failed miserably
Nov 22 04:03:00 <MBarvian_Pre> and the fact that it's like 30 mins from my house. sugardave: or midwat
Nov 22 04:03:03 <haeffb> I can drive to Chicago
Nov 22 04:03:24 <haeffb> 5 hours?
Nov 22 04:03:32 <Palmtini> you could have drove to NY..
Nov 22 04:03:35 <sugardave> that's like a jaunt to my in-laws'
Nov 22 04:03:36 <haeffb> Or take the train
Nov 22 04:03:39 <mugen[bounced]> anyone watch the premier of TopGear USA?
Nov 22 04:03:45 <mugen[bounced]> ...god it's awful
Nov 22 04:04:04 <haeffb> Amtrack has a station 20 miles north of here. Chicago would be cool.
Nov 22 04:04:12 <sugardave> I've never watched that show, but I saw some news story about those guys a few weeks ago
Nov 22 04:04:27 <JenP> mugen[bounced]: the vipper was pretty cool
Nov 22 04:04:35 * haeffb is definitely going to put in Austin & Chicago
Nov 22 04:04:36 <MBarvian_Pre> alright well night everyone
Nov 22 04:04:52 <oil> later
Nov 22 04:04:58 <mugen[bounced]> JenP, I _love_ the viper! but the show just doesn't feel like TopGear :(
Nov 22 04:05:03 <Palmtini> austin..
Nov 22 04:05:27 <JenP> LOL cause it's the us version...have to tame it down for us
Nov 22 04:05:38 <mugen[bounced]> i KNOW right? :(
Nov 22 04:05:44 <mugen[bounced]> stupid americans
Nov 22 04:05:48 * mugen[bounced] kicks dirt.
Nov 22 04:06:09 <JenP> can't handle too much RPM....i'll get heart palpitations
Nov 22 04:06:17 <sugardave> haeffb: unfortunately you only get to pick one
Nov 22 04:06:25 <sugardave> unless they asked the question both days
Nov 22 04:06:31 <JenP> so what else did you guys get at the conf?
Nov 22 04:06:34 <mugen[bounced]> mmmmm rpm :D
Nov 22 04:06:42 <haeffb> oooh, or Kansas City
Nov 22 04:06:46 <Palmtini> piss drunk?
Nov 22 04:06:51 <haeffb> sugardave: I'm adding it to my comments.
Nov 22 04:07:00 * oil gives food and beverage a 5
Nov 22 04:07:23 * oil gives internet speed and connectivity a 1
Nov 22 04:07:24 <mugen[bounced]> lol palmtini
Nov 22 04:08:09 <sugardave> JenP: I got 2 beer steins, a t-shirt, and a Pre 2
Nov 22 04:08:21 <Palmtini> bowling shirt...
Nov 22 04:08:24 <JenP> sounds fun
Nov 22 04:08:27 <sugardave> yeah, bowling shirt
Nov 22 04:08:38 <sugardave> I didn't get the Liar Show shirt
Nov 22 04:08:44 * oil HAD 2 glasses, but one didn't make the trip home ;(
Nov 22 04:08:51 * oil skipped the liar show
Nov 22 04:09:05 <Palmtini> it was funny actually..
Nov 22 04:09:06 <sugardave> JenP: it was really fun
Nov 22 04:09:15 <Palmtini> that expresso guy was a hoot..
Nov 22 04:09:19 <mugen[bounced]> so my friend keeps telling me i'm an idiot for dev'ing on webOS/iOS ... he's an android fanboy. he's spent more time debugging his app on the market because of fragmentation than he took building his first rev
Nov 22 04:09:27 <JenP> sugardave: I'm sure it was
Nov 22 04:10:32 <Palmtini> mugen[bounced]: should develop for them all..
Nov 22 04:10:51 <sugardave> JenP: now I have to make sure I've got enough set aside for the next one...especially if it happens to coincide with another hardware launch of some kind
Nov 22 04:11:25 <JenP> smiles...me to
Nov 22 04:11:52 <sugardave> the Phone Gap guy told me there is a new HP/palm store about a block from the Apple store in Vancouver.  He said the windows are all blacked out and it isn't open yet, so that was kind of interesting
Nov 22 04:12:43 <mugen[bounced]> palm, just don't like how android has 201485324 different versions, flavors, and revs... and that's before you get into hardware fragmentation
Nov 22 04:13:12 <mugen[bounced]> i'm a stickler for uix being consistent
Nov 22 04:13:29 <summatusmentis> phone gap seems like a cool product
Nov 22 04:13:33 <summatusmentis> has anyone used it?
Nov 22 04:13:43 <Palmtini> i have messed with it a little
Nov 22 04:13:55 <Palmtini> it's basically html,css and JS
Nov 22 04:14:02 <Palmtini> the part you write anyway..
Nov 22 04:14:11 <Palmtini> with hooks down into hardware
Nov 22 04:14:16 <summatusmentis> does it work for all webOS apps? the tutorials all talk about canvas
Nov 22 04:14:19 <sugardave> I think the most exciting thing in that regard, though, is Enyo
Nov 22 04:14:57 <Palmtini> summatusmentis: all webos apps?
Nov 22 04:15:13 <Palmtini> take your webOS app, rip out all the mojo
Nov 22 04:15:20 <summatusmentis> right, ok
Nov 22 04:15:22 <summatusmentis> no mojo
Nov 22 04:15:24 * haeffb went to Irish pubs after lucky strikes last night. Back to the motel at 4am. Piss drunk is absolutely correct.
Nov 22 04:15:27 <summatusmentis> that's mostly what I was asking
Nov 22 04:15:27 <Palmtini> and you'll be ready to drop it into phonegap
Nov 22 04:15:50 <sugardave> I think that Enyo becomes the "go to" cross-platform environment for mobile apps
Nov 22 04:15:57 <Palmtini> (after you dl 13 gigs of sdk's for all the devices/platforms)
Nov 22 04:16:08 <sugardave> haeffb: damn, late night :D
Nov 22 04:16:12 * oil has no interest in other platforms :/
Nov 22 04:16:19 <oil> but im probably the odd egg
Nov 22 04:16:29 <haeffb> McSorleys was awesome, but make sure you go with an Irishman.
Nov 22 04:16:37 <summatusmentis> oil: the only interest I have in other platforms is not having to write an app 3 times
Nov 22 04:16:42 <summatusmentis> or, you know, whatever
Nov 22 04:16:54 <sugardave> oil: my reason for thinking of other platforms is purely selfish and all about money ;)
Nov 22 04:17:00 <summatusmentis> mostly what I'm saying is availability
Nov 22 04:17:04 <oil> yeah, see, i dont really care about money, haha
Nov 22 04:17:07 <haeffb> so, I gotta take a shower and hit the sack. Laters.
Nov 22 04:17:10 <oil> which is probably obvious
Nov 22 04:17:15 <oil> later haeffb
Nov 22 04:17:23 <sugardave> night haeffb
Nov 22 04:17:24 <JenP> nite haeffb
Nov 22 04:17:28 <Palmtini> c ya haeffb
Nov 22 04:17:34 <mugen[bounced]> nn haeffb
Nov 22 04:18:18 <Palmtini> phone gap / webos is not fully baked yet tho. still missing many hardware links that are available for ios or android
Nov 22 04:18:36 <Palmtini> but
Nov 22 04:18:52 <Palmtini> you take something like joapp and phone gap and it'll get you pretty far
Nov 22 04:18:55 * oil just wants to make apps for the phone he uses
Nov 22 04:19:28 <Palmtini> i agree with you oil. 100%
Nov 22 04:19:32 <mugen[bounced]> yup
Nov 22 04:19:34 <Palmtini> i have an evo..
Nov 22 04:19:43 <oil> lol
Nov 22 04:19:51 <mugen[bounced]> traitor.
Nov 22 04:19:58 <Palmtini> i'm not..
Nov 22 04:20:07 <mugen[bounced]> evo's the devil bobby
Nov 22 04:20:17 <oil> people with iphones or blackberries at devdays made me lol
Nov 22 04:20:18 <Palmtini> been a palm fan since my palm 7
Nov 22 04:20:23 <mugen[bounced]> :)
Nov 22 04:20:33 <Palmtini> treo 600, 650
Nov 22 04:20:39 * oil first palm was pre
Nov 22 04:20:40 <mugen[bounced]> i'm just playin' man
Nov 22 04:21:00 * oil always wanted a palm device though
Nov 22 04:21:03 <mugen[bounced]> i used to have a treo.... but it was wm6
Nov 22 04:21:05 * mugen[bounced] ducks
Nov 22 04:21:09 <Palmtini> my first palm product i ever bought was graffiti
Nov 22 04:21:32 <Palmtini> i devel'd for palmOS  in C
Nov 22 04:22:11 <Palmtini> at least i didnt get an iphone..
Nov 22 04:22:35 <mugen[bounced]> as much as i don't want to own one... i really do :(
Nov 22 04:22:40 <mugen[bounced]> the os is just SO fluid
Nov 22 04:22:52 <Palmtini> but my contract what up for a new phone on sprint and evo was the best they had to offer then..
Nov 22 04:22:59 <mugen[bounced]> ...but i'm holding strong onto webOS because given the hardware, it'll do the same
Nov 22 04:23:07 <Palmtini> iphone are like mopeds...
Nov 22 04:23:10 <mugen[bounced]> LOL
Nov 22 04:23:12 <mugen[bounced]> yea yea yea
Nov 22 04:23:29 <mugen[bounced]> problem is... everyone wants to show off the fact they use one :P
Nov 22 04:23:45 <summatusmentis> honestly? iOS limits me too much
Nov 22 04:23:51 <summatusmentis> I like how open webOS is
Nov 22 04:24:01 * oil too
Nov 22 04:24:05 <Palmtini> webOS is awesome in that respect..
Nov 22 04:24:09 <Palmtini> and guess what?
Nov 22 04:24:17 <Palmtini> many frameworks think so too
Nov 22 04:24:20 <Palmtini> phonegap
Nov 22 04:24:26 <Palmtini> appcelerator
Nov 22 04:24:31 <Palmtini> etc..
Nov 22 04:24:33 <mugen[bounced]> yep
Nov 22 04:24:41 <Palmtini> you devel in js/html and css
Nov 22 04:24:58 <mugen[bounced]> it's the perfect middle ground between iOS (proprietary) and Android (totally free reign)
Nov 22 04:24:58 <Palmtini> what a concept...
Nov 22 04:25:07 <Palmtini> write once , deploy many..
Nov 22 04:25:16 <Palmtini> it's like z80 all over again..
Nov 22 04:29:06 <Palmtini> ok. i'll pass the soap box now..
Nov 22 04:31:09 <mugen[bounced]> lol
Nov 22 04:43:24 <sugardave> Palmtini: http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m207/sugardave/Palm%20Developer%20Day%20NYC%202010/
Nov 22 04:46:05 <Palmtini> cool!
Nov 22 04:47:30 * oil goes to get a cheeseburger he never got in nyc
Nov 22 04:48:00 <Palmtini> lol
Nov 22 04:48:30 <Palmtini> sugardave: my pix have actual ppl so i'll probably just send them personally
Nov 22 04:56:37 <sugardave> oil: did you try some sushi?
Nov 22 04:56:50 <JenP> anyone read any good books lately? Need a new one...scary/thriller
Nov 22 04:57:12 <SineOt> The Historian was pretty good, I thought. Burned through it in like 4 days. P:
Nov 22 04:57:26 <JenP> cool i'll check it out
Nov 22 04:57:47 <SineOt> I'm wanting to maybe check out "The Sparrow" I think next.
Nov 22 04:57:50 <SineOt> Catholic Scifi. :V
Nov 22 04:58:19 <sugardave> What, is it about evolution or something?
Nov 22 04:58:26 <JenP> well just finished the passage, the last child, & 7th victim
Nov 22 04:59:00 <JenP> oh sugardave: historian looks good. thanks
Nov 22 04:59:11 <SineOt> No, it's about first contact and the only group with enough funding sitting around to fund the construction of a ship and send it... Is the Vatican
Nov 22 04:59:38 <SineOt> which seems like an interesting concept
Nov 22 05:01:03 <sugardave> SineOt: yeah that sounds pretty interesting
Nov 22 05:01:42 <JenP> that does sound good too
Nov 22 05:01:48 <SineOt> I love my Nook for the simple fact that books are way cheap :B
Nov 22 05:01:54 <SineOt> and I don't have to keep finding space to stuff them all
Nov 22 05:02:14 <JenP> oh...i'm a kindle girl personally
Nov 22 05:03:31 <sugardave> I'm toying around with the idea of making a Project Gutenberg app
Nov 22 05:03:42 <halfhalo> Their
Nov 22 05:04:07 <sugardave> Whose
Nov 22 05:05:01 <SineOt> Gutenberg is awesome, but... the formatting on some of them really leaves a lot to be desired
Nov 22 05:05:46 <sugardave> yeah, plus the first time I looked at it, I found that their structure doesn't lend itself to an easy solution :D
Nov 22 05:07:32 <SineOt> It's like, yay public knowledge! Then you read it and go boo, terribly formatted plain text!
Nov 22 05:08:01 <sugardave> yeah, some of them are pretty bad
Nov 22 05:12:02 <torchie> aww what's wrong with some plaintext
Nov 22 05:17:05 <oil> sugardave: i ate one or two of those appetizers, so, maybe?
Nov 22 05:20:25 <JenP> well guys time for me to bolt. I'll ttyl
Nov 22 05:20:27 <JenP> nite
Nov 22 05:30:25 * torchie prays that his pre lasts long enough for the 2.0 update
Nov 22 05:30:54 <summatusmentis> I'm really worried 2.0 is gonna make my pre sadd
Nov 22 05:30:56 <summatusmentis> -d
Nov 22 05:31:04 <SineOt> I really hope the 2.0 update for the Pixi helps bridge some of the last vestiges of inoperability between the Pre and Pixi
Nov 22 05:31:20 <SineOt> namely... the whole hybrid apps and background processes
Nov 22 05:33:09 <wastrel> pixi hi
Nov 22 05:33:13 <wastrel> verizon has that
Nov 22 05:34:42 <oil> hybrids dont work in pixi 145
Nov 22 05:35:24 <SineOt> oil: I know, hence hoping that 2.0 fixes them P:
Nov 22 05:35:37 <torchie> no hybrids in pixi 145 whaaa
Nov 22 05:35:49 <SineOt> yeah, the PDK part of it just won't start
Nov 22 05:36:08 <torchie> if visualboyadvance, supernes, and all my pdk games worked on pixi 2.0
Nov 22 05:36:14 <torchie> I'd switch like a mofo I guess
Nov 22 05:36:18 <halfhalo> Pixis suck. That is all.
Nov 22 05:36:21 <torchie> candybar :D
Nov 22 05:36:31 <torchie> then again no wifi
Nov 22 05:36:33 <torchie> less memory
Nov 22 05:36:35 <torchie> hmm.
Nov 22 05:36:37 <torchie> asdfasdfasdf
Nov 22 05:36:51 <SineOt> no wifi on sprint only, same memory as the original Pre!
Nov 22 05:36:54 <wastrel> can you store and play flv offline in webos
Nov 22 05:37:17 <SineOt> No, but you can convert them to mp4 with a computer.
Nov 22 05:37:34 <wastrel> can you save web pages for offline viewing?
Nov 22 05:37:43 <halfhalo> No
Nov 22 05:37:55 <wastrel> shame
Nov 22 05:38:09 <torchie> oh, same amount of memory eh
Nov 22 05:38:12 <halfhalo> Not really
Nov 22 05:38:34 <wastrel> some people don't use the subway i guess
Nov 22 05:38:50 <SineOt> yeah, can't remember where, but someone from Palm said that the Pixi does in fact have 256mb of RAM
Nov 22 05:39:02 <SineOt> but that more of it is required by the modem processing than on the Pre
Nov 22 05:39:44 <torchie> oh i meant flash
Nov 22 05:39:48 <torchie> like how much storage
Nov 22 05:39:50 <SineOt> if you put on any of the kernels with Compcache though it really basically becomes a nonissue. I haven't seen a "Too Many Cards" error in probably... Dunno, however long Compcache existed!
Nov 22 05:39:57 <SineOt> Oh, that's just 8GB like the original Pre.
Nov 22 05:40:02 <torchie> oh sweet
Nov 22 05:40:18 <halfhalo> Lol... Subway... We done have that here in the awesome state
Nov 22 05:40:23 <torchie> so far my only use for wifi has been if I'm in the basement of the library
Nov 22 05:40:43 <SineOt> halfhalo: yes we do, LA Redline!
Nov 22 05:40:47 <wastrel> halfhalo: it's downtime that's perfect for reading but there's no signal
Nov 22 05:41:06 <wastrel> catch-22 time to browse but can't :[
Nov 22 05:41:42 <SineOt> Oh, I guess there's the Purple line too
Nov 22 05:41:46 <SineOt> but yeah LA has a subway
Nov 22 05:41:58 <halfhalo> Since when the hell did that happen...
Nov 22 05:42:06 <halfhalo> Brb blowing up subway
Nov 22 05:42:14 <SineOt> has for a long time
Nov 22 05:42:30 <SineOt> it'd actually be useful if people quit going "NOT IN MY BACKYARD" and let them actually expand the stupid thing
Nov 22 05:43:27 <halfhalo> Yeah, well, I live in the san frenando valley.  We don't have public transportation
Nov 22 05:44:02 <halfhalo> There is like a single bus forth entire thing
Nov 22 05:45:15 <SineOt> yeah after seeing the busses in Ottawa anything out here is kind of like "yawn"
Nov 22 05:46:43 <mugen[bounced]> who lives in ottawa?
Nov 22 05:46:56 <halfhalo> Nobody
Nov 22 05:47:06 <mugen[bounced]> o
Nov 22 05:47:19 <mugen[bounced]> good :P that place is a shithole
Nov 22 05:48:54 <wastrel> my girlfriend in high school was from ottawa
Nov 22 05:50:09 <SineOt> Winnipeg is a shithole, lol
Nov 22 05:50:25 <SineOt> actually most of Manitoba is like that
Nov 22 05:53:49 <halfhalo> Canada sucks. Boom, done.
Nov 22 05:58:27 <mugen[bounced]> anyone got any good webos/gadget pod casts?
Nov 22 05:58:33 <mugen[bounced]> i want to expand my horizons
Nov 22 06:02:57 <sugardave> why wouldn't you be able to save a web page for offline viewing in a Mojo app?
Nov 22 06:04:27 <SineOt> you can't do it in the stock browser
Nov 22 06:04:33 <SineOt> but I'm sure there's something in the app catalog that can
Nov 22 06:10:37 <torchie> "no scenes, no stacks, no pushing, no popping"
Nov 22 06:10:42 <torchie> "*applause*"
Nov 22 06:20:10 <alexfner> yo yo hey
Nov 22 06:37:04 <mugen[bounced]> torchie, i just got finished watching the presentation too
Nov 22 06:37:07 <mugen[bounced]> i'm stoked.
Nov 22 06:43:55 <torchie> word
Nov 22 08:55:57 <swisstomcat> morning
Nov 22 08:56:17 <mugen[bounced]> o\
Nov 22 08:59:30 <teemu> Morning
Nov 22 09:06:27 <dkirker> 'morning swisstomcat, mugen[bounced], teemu
Nov 22 09:06:54 <swisstomcat> was anyone at the dev day?
Nov 22 09:07:24 <dkirker> not me :(
Nov 22 09:13:12 <swisstomcat1> rehi
Nov 22 09:22:04 <dkirker> oh! So that is all I had to do to wIRC to get it to work. Set the port! :D
Nov 22 09:22:30 <mugen[bounced]> hehe
Nov 22 09:22:37 <mugen[bounced]> znc + wirc = ftw
Nov 22 09:22:57 <dkirker-pre> dkirker: Well, um yeah, you dummy... Did you think I would do it myself?... what do I look like?
Nov 22 09:23:04 <dkirker> A smartphone?...
Nov 22 09:23:19 <dkirker> Emphasis on the *smart* part?
Nov 22 09:23:23 <mugen[bounced]> lol
Nov 22 09:23:41 * dkirker is hyped up on caffeine
Nov 22 09:30:30 <swisstomcat> rehi
Nov 22 09:30:56 <dkirker> hi swisstomcat!!
Nov 22 09:45:14 <swisstomcat> hey dkirker
Nov 22 09:45:18 <swisstomcat> were you in NYC?
Nov 22 09:45:48 <dkirker> I was not. I really wanted to go, but school and finances prevented me. :(
Nov 22 09:47:51 <swisstomcat> me neither
Nov 22 09:48:02 <swisstomcat> i'm watching the presentations on youtube
Nov 22 09:54:43 <dkirker> I am going to try to watch some of them, at some point.
Nov 22 09:54:57 <dkirker> I am hoping to go the next time that it is in California.
Nov 22 09:55:08 <dkirker> I am really mad at myself for not going to the first one over the summer.
Nov 22 09:56:44 <swisstomcat> the one in april was nice,
Nov 22 09:57:04 <dkirker> you went?
Nov 22 10:05:07 <swisstomcat> yeah
Nov 22 10:05:18 <swisstomcat> days before the hp merger was announed
Nov 22 10:05:28 <dkirker> sweet!
Nov 22 12:20:42 <dohtem> whoa... that firesheep on webos video is crazy
Nov 22 13:07:18 <haeffb> swisstomcat: sprout 2.0 update?
Nov 22 13:15:02 <hotdp> Hello
Nov 22 13:15:42 * hotdp is about to convert hes pre 2 to pre 2 with eu support
Nov 22 13:18:02 <hotdp> swisstomcat you here?
Nov 22 13:18:24 <swisstomcat> rehi
Nov 22 13:18:34 <swisstomcat> haeffb: still waiting
Nov 22 14:08:14 <Palmtini> hotdp: !!!!!
Nov 22 14:10:25 <hotdp> lol
Nov 22 14:10:35 <hotdp> Hey:D
Nov 22 14:10:40 <Palmtini>  ;)
Nov 22 14:10:53 <Palmtini> you are making a franken-pre ?
Nov 22 14:11:03 <hotdp> yer
Nov 22 14:11:06 <hotdp> as we speak :s
Nov 22 14:11:21 <Palmtini> the few, the brave..
Nov 22 14:11:44 <hotdp> hard to find the T5 screwdrewer
Nov 22 14:14:36 <Palmtini> gotta layout all your tools for surgery
Nov 22 14:30:24 <swisstomcat> enyo looks really nice
Nov 22 14:38:10 <hotdp> very
Nov 22 14:42:21 <sugardave> HOTDP
Nov 22 14:45:59 <hotdp> hey sugardave
Nov 22 14:46:08 * hotdp back in denmark
Nov 22 14:47:32 <sugardave> cool, glad you guys made it to NYC and back in one piece :D
Nov 22 14:48:11 <hotdp> :)
Nov 22 14:48:17 <hotdp> and you?
Nov 22 14:49:10 <sugardave> minor delays with my flight but I got back to Austin last night...still tired :D
Nov 22 14:49:31 <hotdp> me2
Nov 22 14:49:43 <swisstomcat> hey sugardave
Nov 22 14:49:50 <sugardave> swisstomcat: hey!
Nov 22 14:49:54 <swisstomcat> i'm catching up on all the dev day videos on youtube
Nov 22 14:50:35 <sugardave> yeah, I need to carve out some time to watch the sessions I didn't attend
Nov 22 14:52:11 <hotdp> rwhitby you here?
Nov 22 14:57:48 <haeffb_pre> hotdp!!!!!
Nov 22 14:57:59 <hotdp> omg
Nov 22 14:58:03 <hotdp> will it ever stop ;)
Nov 22 14:58:09 <hotdp> hi haeffb_pre
Nov 22 14:58:24 <haeffb_pre> swisstomcat: I didn't see if you gave a sprout 2.0 status update...
Nov 22 14:58:41 <haeffb_pre> hotdp: no. it will never stop
Nov 22 14:59:00 <Palmtini> hotdp: we all have our skeletons in the closet
Nov 22 14:59:20 <Palmtini> look at me for instance
Nov 22 14:59:28 <swisstomcat> haeffb: enjoyed your talk at the dev day ... i'm going through the youtube videos
Nov 22 14:59:35 <haeffb_pre> my Pre2 doesn't like the touchstone
Nov 22 14:59:56 <Palmtini> haeffb_pre:  waaaasssssuuuuuuppppppp!!!
Nov 22 15:00:03 <haeffb_pre> swisstomcat: thanks
Nov 22 15:00:15 <haeffb_pre> wassssssuuuuuuupppppppp!
Nov 22 15:01:06 <haeffb_pre> it keeps ding-dong & 'charging battery' every little while when on touchstone
Nov 22 15:01:27 <Palmtini> try turning it 90 degrees ?
Nov 22 15:01:41 <hotdp> haeffb have also tried that
Nov 22 15:01:45 <hotdp> checked the backcover?
Nov 22 15:02:00 <hotdp> i had a defect backcover when it happend to me
Nov 22 15:02:29 <haeffb_pre> checked it but didn't see anything wrong. will swap with pre- & see
Nov 22 15:02:40 <haeffb_pre> 90 def don't help
Nov 22 15:02:52 <Palmtini> 92 ?
Nov 22 15:03:26 <haeffb_pre> oh, look, a Pomtini !
Nov 22 15:03:55 <Palmtini> yeah.. fitting huh ?
Nov 22 15:04:40 * haeffb_pre was trying to distract you  before you got to 97
Nov 22 15:05:00 <Palmtini> happy to give helpful suggestions
Nov 22 15:05:06 <haeffb_pre> appears to be defective back
Nov 22 15:05:24 <Palmtini> does it have foam in there?
Nov 22 15:05:39 <Palmtini> little foam pieces.. remember that whole thing?
Nov 22 15:06:01 <haeffb_pre> or not. Pre- works with it....
Nov 22 15:06:18 <haeffb_pre> Pre2 works with old back....
Nov 22 15:06:25 <haeffb_pre> weird
Nov 22 15:06:29 <Palmtini> nice
Nov 22 15:08:57 <hotdp> haeffb_pre as i said :d
Nov 22 15:09:01 <hotdp> defect back cover
Nov 22 15:09:13 <hotdp> i know other then me with the same problem
Nov 22 15:10:16 <haeffb_pre> but it's not defect when used on Pre-
Nov 22 15:10:37 <hotdp> hm
Nov 22 15:10:41 <hotdp> thats strange
Nov 22 15:10:47 <haeffb_pre> but yes, thanks for the suggestion as it appears to have solved the problem
Nov 22 15:10:59 <hotdp> is the connectors dirty?
Nov 22 15:11:03 <haeffb_pre> both are working after swapping backs
Nov 22 15:11:17 <haeffb_pre> "semi-defective"
Nov 22 15:11:21 <sugardave> maybe it wasn't seated well
Nov 22 15:11:23 <hotdp> remember the problem is only visible is it is fuly charged
Nov 22 15:11:44 <hotdp> so if you pre- is not 100% you dont know if it is broken there also
Nov 22 15:15:40 <hotdp> ?
Nov 22 15:36:25 <InfiniteLoop> hi all
Nov 22 15:37:50 <dantalizing> morning
Nov 22 15:44:00 <haeffb_pre> ah. didn't no that.
Nov 22 15:46:19 <haeffb_pre> hi everyone
Nov 22 15:47:21 <Loudergood> good morning
Nov 22 16:35:19 <swisstomcat> bbl
Nov 22 16:40:08 <LoneStar99> howdy folks
Nov 22 16:40:14 <hotdp> Hey LoneStar99
Nov 22 16:40:27 <LoneStar99> how was NYC
Nov 22 16:40:51 <hotdp> AWSOME
Nov 22 16:40:55 <torchie>  WOO
Nov 22 16:41:04 <LoneStar99> killer
Nov 22 16:41:35 <LoneStar99> did you all get pre2?
Nov 22 16:41:37 <hotdp> I really think hp/palm did a good job
Nov 22 16:41:45 <LoneStar99> awesome
Nov 22 16:41:51 <hotdp> yes
Nov 22 16:42:02 <LoneStar99> killer
Nov 22 16:42:02 <hotdp> the ones who won the raffle
Nov 22 16:42:10 <sugardave> haha
Nov 22 16:42:28 <sugardave> "Do you have a pulse?  WINNAR!"
Nov 22 16:42:54 <wastrel> winrar
Nov 22 16:43:11 <LoneStar99> cool well partied like a rockstar for you boys
Nov 22 16:44:00 <hotdp> I wonder if the images from the event will be availible
Nov 22 16:44:24 <LoneStar99> i am sure
Nov 22 16:44:25 <Rick_work> yes, they will be many of them.
Nov 22 16:44:33 <hotdp> at palm?
Nov 22 16:49:34 <LoneStar99> need to nap, been a rough 5 days
Nov 22 17:24:07 <haeffb_pre> After using this @palm Pre 2, I really, really want one on @sprint...somebody please make it happen!
Nov 22 17:26:42 <wastrel> @palm @sprint ?
Nov 22 17:27:50 <Rick_work> haeffb_pre  -- once we have a sprint WebOS 2.0 doctor for the pre1, we can make a meta-doctor that will let you use the pre2 on sprint by moving your comm board.
Nov 22 17:28:43 <haeffb_pre> yeah...that will be good, but would still rather have an official Sprint device
Nov 22 17:29:01 <haeffb_pre> wastrel: copied my tweet
Nov 22 17:29:09 <Rick_work> Keep telling sprint that.
Nov 22 17:29:20 <Rick_work> In the meantime, go get an AT&T go phone card.
Nov 22 17:29:29 <haeffb_pre> I am have been... :)
Nov 22 17:29:36 <Rick_work> the $3.00 a day card only charges you on the days you actially use the phone
Nov 22 17:30:05 <dawm> ugh
Nov 22 17:30:08 <haeffb_pre> hmmm....$3 for phone & data?
Nov 22 17:30:26 <dawm> trying to install preware on a friends phone and its not working.. keeps saying the service isnt running.. rebooted twice now
Nov 22 17:31:07 <haeffb_pre> we don't have AT&T here. will try local carrier first.
Nov 22 17:31:53 <haeffb_pre> how hard is moving the comm board? any tricky "gotcha's"
Nov 22 17:34:29 <dawm> awesome
Nov 22 17:34:55 <dawm> preware totally aint installing properly. totally makes selling that its such a great app so much easier
Nov 22 17:35:45 <Rick_work> haeffb_pre  moving the comm board is physically difficult in the re-assembly process.  there are things that are very fussy fits.
Nov 22 17:39:38 <hotdp> haeffb_pre i am doing it know
Nov 22 17:39:42 <hotdp> you need small fingers
Nov 22 17:40:55 <Rick_work> you need skilled fingers....
Nov 22 17:41:15 <hotdp> Yer and my keyboard does not work anymore
Nov 22 17:41:35 <Rick_work> ok...  that's bad.
Nov 22 17:42:00 <Rick_work> the keyboard was attached to the cpu (front" slider) with a ribbon cable....
Nov 22 17:42:01 <hotdp> cheking cables now
Nov 22 17:42:08 <Rick_work> did you disturb either of them?  There are two.
Nov 22 17:43:10 <hotdp> think one
Nov 22 17:43:18 <hotdp> i am about to disasemple
Nov 22 17:45:18 <hotdp> the small one looke disconnected
Nov 22 17:48:14 <Rick_work> that would be the keyboard plug.  I think.
Nov 22 17:49:18 <hotdp> when should there be light in the keyboard=
Nov 22 17:50:06 <hotdp> wuhu
Nov 22 17:57:11 <JenP> morning all
Nov 22 17:57:24 <hotdp> mornig JenP
Nov 22 17:57:38 * JenP waves
Nov 22 18:08:20 <Rick_work> morning JenP
Nov 22 18:08:32 <JenP> good morning Rick_work
Nov 22 18:08:58 <JenP> i heard the conference was incredible. I'm so jealous you got a pre2
Nov 22 18:09:54 <BeeksElectric> it was pretty awesome
Nov 22 18:12:22 <haeffb_pre> hotdp - defective back. the pre- jusy reached 100%. good call!
Nov 22 18:12:51 <haeffb_pre> wonder if Palm will send me a new one... ? :)
Nov 22 18:16:53 <hotdp> they will
Nov 22 18:17:15 <hotdp> But you have to tell them the problem 100% or they will just say it works fine because they dont test at 100%
Nov 22 18:18:47 <whoolio> hey everyone...i plugged my new pre2 in but ares won't install apps to it
Nov 22 18:18:56 <whoolio> anyone else have this problem?
Nov 22 18:19:03 <deliciousmorsel> did you konami it?
Nov 22 18:19:09 <deliciousmorsel> do you have to konami for ares?
Nov 22 18:19:21 <whoolio> whats konamI?
Nov 22 18:19:29 <whoolio> this is the developer version i got at dev day
Nov 22 18:19:31 <deliciousmorsel> the konami code
Nov 22 18:19:53 <oil> upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
Nov 22 18:19:58 <deliciousmorsel> type that in
Nov 22 18:20:01 <deliciousmorsel> to your pre2
Nov 22 18:20:05 <oil> or, webos20090606
Nov 22 18:20:12 <oil> a little easier to type, but not as awesome
Nov 22 18:20:15 <deliciousmorsel> or optionally … mail me your pre2 and i'll get it working
Nov 22 18:20:18 <deliciousmorsel> however i wont mail it back.
Nov 22 18:20:34 <oil> the pre2s from devdays are already in developer mode
Nov 22 18:21:25 <whoolio> i keep getting the device/emulator needs to be runnign message
Nov 22 18:21:33 <whoolio> is there a driver i need to install?
Nov 22 18:21:36 <halfhalo> yes
Nov 22 18:21:55 <deliciousmorsel> anyone wanna sell me their p2
Nov 22 18:21:57 <halfhalo> ... thats all I got
Nov 22 18:22:05 <halfhalo> deliciousmorsel: for 300 I will
Nov 22 18:22:15 <deliciousmorsel> hmmm
Nov 22 18:22:15 <whoolio> sorry deliciuos
Nov 22 18:22:24 <deliciousmorsel> i wanna work on twee
Nov 22 18:22:28 <deliciousmorsel> lol
Nov 22 18:22:31 <deliciousmorsel> my pre broke
Nov 22 18:22:41 <deliciousmorsel> and the previous pre was given to a friend
Nov 22 18:22:43 <whoolio> halfhalo, was that a yes there is a driver?
Nov 22 18:22:48 <halfhalo> yes
Nov 22 18:22:59 <whoolio> do u know where it is donwladable from?
Nov 22 18:23:07 <halfhalo> no
Nov 22 18:24:09 <sui> whoolio: i don't know the prew, but for the first pre you don't need a driver.
Nov 22 18:24:26 <sui> s/prew/pre2
Nov 22 18:25:01 <halfhalo> yes you did for the pre/preplus/pixi/pixiplus
Nov 22 18:25:10 <halfhalo> you definitely needed a driver
Nov 22 18:25:20 <sui> just put it in developer mode and use webosquickinstall to install preware
Nov 22 18:25:37 <deliciousmorsel> maybe i'll get my developer coupon
Nov 22 18:25:42 <deliciousmorsel> so i can pick up a p2 for $250
Nov 22 18:25:43 <BeeksElectric> if you run the webos doctor for the pre 2 until just before the actual doctoring, it'll install the new version of novacom
Nov 22 18:25:55 <halfhalo> yupyup
Nov 22 18:25:56 <whoolio> oh ok
Nov 22 18:25:59 <BeeksElectric> and then palm-install works fine
Nov 22 18:26:00 <whoolio> thanks!
Nov 22 19:07:39 <maik> i did a meta-info update for Emergency Lights but it still lists the old images and description in the App Catalog :(
Nov 22 19:10:21 <swisstomcat> evening
Nov 22 19:10:29 <maik> morning
Nov 22 19:10:30 <hotdp> regi swisstomcat
Nov 22 19:10:34 <hotdp> rehi*
Nov 22 19:13:29 <whoolio> does anyone use ares and sometimes have problems dragging files into the upload area? ive been trying ot upload a file for 30 minutes now
Nov 22 19:22:32 <Rick_work> maiki -- refresh's take some time to propagate
Nov 22 19:28:57 <SineOt> for those who were at Dev Days: Enyo just lets you run stuff in a stock browser, yeah?
Nov 22 19:30:53 <swisstomcat> yeah
Nov 22 19:31:08 <swisstomcat> from what i understand from the presentation on youtube, i wasn't there
Nov 22 19:31:19 <swisstomcat> the demos were running inside desktop chrome
Nov 22 19:31:38 <SineOt> it'd be cool if you could offer a "cloud" version of your app that runs in stock browsers
Nov 22 19:31:51 <Loudergood> yeah that's about right
Nov 22 19:32:23 <swisstomcat> i think that's the point of enyo .. it's seems not limited to webOS
Nov 22 19:32:42 <swisstomcat> so you can phonegap it and use on other platforms too .. or desktop
Nov 22 19:32:56 <swisstomcat> e.g chrome/mozilla "app" store
Nov 22 19:33:40 <hotdp> its not "just"
Nov 22 19:33:51 <hotdp> its a complete new framework
Nov 22 19:34:00 <swisstomcat> yeah
Nov 22 19:34:04 <hotdp> build on speed
Nov 22 19:34:12 <swisstomcat> but mojo was confined to webos
Nov 22 19:34:17 <hotdp> comp, and html 5 where it is possible
Nov 22 19:34:20 <SineOt> er, I don't know how that "just" got worked in there, but it did!
Nov 22 19:34:35 <Rick_work> Enyo is designed to be a "webkit' cross platform platform.
Nov 22 19:34:53 <hotdp> for those who were at Dev Days: Enyo just lets you run stuff in a stock browser, yeah? <-- sounded like "just" or like "nothing specoel"
Nov 22 19:34:56 <SineOt> I just think it'd be cool to be able to say, read your notes from your phone while it's still in your pocket on a bog standard computer and have the into sync both ways
Nov 22 19:34:57 <joshua> When will there be APIs to do augmented reality apps
Nov 22 19:35:21 <Rick_work> although there's no plans for DIRECT support from HP other than on webos but I think we'll see an "Open Enyo" project set up by webos-internals pretty early.
Nov 22 19:36:19 <Rick_work> Enyo is being PROTOTYPED in browsers because there are no alternate-resolution webOS devices.   But don't expect Enyo in browsers to be supported by Palm forever.
Nov 22 19:36:32 <Rick_work> WebOS started that way too, and got dropped along the way.
Nov 22 19:36:35 <hotdp> i think the same
Nov 22 19:36:52 <swisstomcat> i assume they have palmpad prototypes internally
Nov 22 19:37:05 <Rick_work> not a good assumption.
Nov 22 19:37:11 <swisstomcat> not?
Nov 22 19:37:13 <SineOt> I think Enyo will probably keep the browser prototyping since if you're going to be developing, that's an easy, easy way to test different screen sizes without waiting for an emulator to function
Nov 22 19:37:27 <swisstomcat> isn't it supposed to come out q1 2011?
Nov 22 19:37:33 <Rick_work> I sincerely doubt that anyone in San Jose has a working palmpad prototype.
Nov 22 19:37:35 <SineOt> I'd say it's a good assumption, but to show of Enyo running on a tablet sized emulator instance would be basically going "IT EXISTS"
Nov 22 19:37:39 <Rick_work> swisstomcat  no one has said that.
Nov 22 19:37:55 <SineOt> HP has really heavily stated early 2011
Nov 22 19:38:17 <swisstomcat> they can just run the emulator on a higher resolution
Nov 22 19:38:20 <SineOt> and the 2.0 doctor carries references to restoring newer devices (which would imply they exist in prototype form)
Nov 22 19:38:21 <Rick_work> SineOt  I did not see any high resolution emulators on anyone's laptops.  Also, since the emulators are still not supporting multi-touch....
Nov 22 19:38:30 <swisstomcat> hmm
Nov 22 19:38:49 <SineOt> Rick_work: wouldn't that just imply that Enyo in a Browser would be sticking around for a long, long time? :p
Nov 22 19:38:54 <swisstomcat> there have to be prototypes .. otherwise the goal of Q1 2011 is just not feasible?
Nov 22 19:39:08 <swisstomcat> or am i wrong?
Nov 22 19:39:43 <SineOt> swisstomcat: there probably are prototypes, and there's probably a lot of them for all sorts of devices
Nov 22 19:40:26 <SineOt> Metrix logs picked up a Broadway a few weeks/months ago, so those exist in prototype form somewhere...
Nov 22 19:40:59 <SineOt> ... and the 2.0 doctor wouldn't need to worry about restoring logs from a Stingray if a Stingray prototype didn't exist for you to plug in and doctor
Nov 22 19:44:54 <SineOt> The Apple way of introducing something new like the tablet features for iOS: Announce the iPad and its specs, push new dev tools for it there and let the community figure it out.
Nov 22 19:44:55 <SineOt> The Palm way of introducing something new like the tablet features for webOS: announce the framework, show it in the browser, not mention the devices at all even in passing. "It sizes to anything" instead of oh hey there's an emulator sized at 1280x800 guess that's how big the Palm Pad is!
Nov 22 19:45:00 <SineOt> It's just keeping all the cards close to the chest
Nov 22 19:46:27 <Loudergood> yeah that triple column email demo was a big hint
Nov 22 19:46:48 <SineOt> without giving anything away as to what the specs for future devices would be
Nov 22 19:47:36 <Rick_work> I do not expect to see any pads until hardware accelerated css is available in webos 2.0 which is still "a little while" away.
Nov 22 19:48:02 <hotdp> Rick_work i think Ben C told me that allready have been done?
Nov 22 19:48:31 <Rick_work> Grey said they're still debugging.
Nov 22 19:48:50 <hotdp> thants strange
Nov 22 19:48:55 <Loudergood> Rick_work: a little while: like spring 2011? ;)
Nov 22 19:48:55 <hotdp> *thats
Nov 22 19:49:04 <SineOt> hah
Nov 22 19:49:32 <SineOt> I think with Pad devices it wouldn't really matter that much since you could realistically just throw more processing power at it
Nov 22 19:49:45 <Rick_work> I think that Ben C and Grey were saying the same thing from diff angles.  hardware accelerated CSS is done, but is still being debugged in edge-cases.
Nov 22 19:49:54 <SineOt> phones would see more out of hardware accellerated CSS
Nov 22 19:49:57 <Rick_work> SineOt  it makes a HUGE difference.
Nov 22 19:50:01 <Loudergood> they'll probably roll it out just like webOS 2.0, in new hardware first
Nov 22 19:50:10 <hotdp> Rick_work i understand now
Nov 22 19:50:16 <SineOt> Rick_work: I know it would, I'd love to see it
Nov 22 19:50:58 <SineOt> I just think it'd make a bigger difference in a phone than it would with a theoretical tablet device where you could get away with doing something dumb like a dual core and no one would mind an 8 hour battery life :p
Nov 22 19:54:09 <swisstomcat> but on a tablet you have more pixel to deal with
Nov 22 19:55:35 <SineOt> swisstomcat: which is something that a dual core would probably have no issue chunking through
Nov 22 19:56:53 <SineOt> if a stock Pixi at 600mhz can deal with most stuff fine, I'm sure a 1ghz OMAP3 or some dual core monster could handle 4x the resolution ;P
Nov 22 20:05:20 <SineOt> (hell, for that matter, a Pixi at 320mhz can handle almost everything required to multitask two apps at the same time c_c )
Nov 22 20:35:59 <dkirker> hi Adora!
Nov 22 20:36:22 <deliciousmorsel> she's alive
Nov 22 20:36:23 <deliciousmorsel> haha.
Nov 22 20:36:31 <deliciousmorsel> maybe she isn't.
Nov 22 20:36:32 <deliciousmorsel> sad.
Nov 22 21:02:02 <deliciousmorsel> so quiet.
Nov 22 21:06:15 <swisstomcat> it's oh so quiet
Nov 22 21:06:22 <swisstomcat> everyone is relaxing from the dev days?
Nov 22 21:06:42 <phil_bw> I just got here
Nov 22 21:06:45 <phil_bw> where's the party?
Nov 22 21:07:43 <phil_bw> swisstomcat, I definitely owe in one way or another, Moo is still the most effective way of calming my 19 month old
Nov 22 21:07:58 <swisstomcat> glad to hear
Nov 22 21:08:01 <BeeksElectric> The moment I got back from dev day it was business as usual again
Nov 22 21:08:01 <swisstomcat> :)
Nov 22 21:08:05 <BeeksElectric> right back to work
Nov 22 21:08:09 <swisstomcat> do you know toot, phil_bw?
Nov 22 21:08:17 <phil_bw> he comes up to me and says "cow"
Nov 22 21:08:26 <phil_bw> toot?
Nov 22 21:08:26 <wastrel> hi
Nov 22 21:08:50 <swisstomcat> http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.inorbit.toot.free
Nov 22 21:08:56 <swisstomcat> similar to moo, but with machines
Nov 22 21:09:12 <swisstomcat> excavator,steam train,truck .... 18 of them
Nov 22 21:09:18 <swisstomcat> with pics and sounds
Nov 22 21:09:35 <phil_bw> oh my goodness
Nov 22 21:09:45 <phil_bw> Joel is going to freak
Nov 22 21:10:31 <swisstomcat> my son likes it
Nov 22 21:10:44 <phil_bw> the wife's kinda upset though
Nov 22 21:10:51 <swisstomcat> why?
Nov 22 21:10:52 <phil_bw> Joel knows all of his farm animals *very* well
Nov 22 21:10:58 <phil_bw> but doesn't quite have the body parts down yet...
Nov 22 21:11:18 <swisstomcat> hmm, another app :)
Nov 22 21:11:27 <swisstomcat> can't wait to make some for the palmpad
Nov 22 21:11:58 <swisstomcat> human body parts?
Nov 22 21:12:01 <phil_bw> yeah
Nov 22 21:12:08 <phil_bw> ears, eyes, nose, mouth, etc
Nov 22 21:12:19 <phil_bw> not a lot of sounds though..
Nov 22 21:12:45 <swisstomcat> but maybe animations
Nov 22 21:12:49 <phil_bw> I've been contemplating writing what would basically be "Moo 3D" as a way to experiment more with OpenGL
Nov 22 21:13:03 <swisstomcat> that'd be cool
Nov 22 21:13:05 <wastrel> babies <3
Nov 22 21:13:22 <phil_bw> I've got a lot of other stuff on my plate first though
Nov 22 21:13:30 <swisstomcat> phil_bw: let me know how he likes toot .. feedback appreciated how to make it better
Nov 22 21:13:45 <swisstomcat> i'm off to bed .. goodn8 everyone
Nov 22 21:13:45 <phil_bw> you got it
Nov 22 21:13:48 <phil_bw> later
Nov 22 21:15:52 <MBarvian_Pre> does including a framework like jquery significantly slow down an app?
Nov 22 21:16:35 <SineOt> Possibly, but I haven't bench marked it much. What do you need from Jquery?
Nov 22 21:16:52 <MBarvian_Pre> selectors :(
Nov 22 21:17:07 <MBarvian_Pre> it seems like overkill though
Nov 22 21:17:10 <SineOt> Something that Prototype can't do?
Nov 22 21:17:28 <MBarvian_Pre> what kind of selectors does prototype have?
Nov 22 21:18:14 <SineOt> dunno, but it's built in and a lot faster on webOS since they tweaked it for speed
Nov 22 21:18:42 <MBarvian_Pre> sounds good. I'll probably just figure out a way to make it work
Nov 22 21:19:08 <MBarvian_Pre> has anyone here tried scriptaculous for animations? it's an extension to prototype
Nov 22 21:20:05 <haeffb_pre> @germboy used scriptaculous in BadKitty
Nov 22 21:20:42 <haeffb_pre> you can find him on twitter
Nov 22 21:20:50 <MBarvian_Pre> yea I watched his presentation
Nov 22 21:21:31 <haeffb_pre> Palmtini: sticking with that username?
Nov 22 21:24:12 <MBarvian_Pre> is anyone here good at prototype? I have a pretty basic question
Nov 22 21:27:32 <sugardave> define "good"
Nov 22 21:27:38 <sugardave> I know where the API docs are
Nov 22 21:28:06 <dohtem> MBarvian_Pre: #prototypejs
Nov 22 21:28:14 <dohtem> ack
Nov 22 21:28:18 <dohtem>  #prototype
Nov 22 21:28:34 <sugardave> selectors, try this.controller.select(weirdo css selector);
Nov 22 21:28:39 <sugardave> gives back a nodelist
Nov 22 21:28:50 <sugardave> which you could do $A() against to turn into an array
Nov 22 21:30:14 <Palmtini> haeffb_pre: it takes a while to recover from Palmtinis
Nov 22 21:31:50 <mbarvian> sugardave: thanks for the info.  here's what I'm wanting to do. you think it could be done in prototype?
Nov 22 21:31:50 <mbarvian> http://pastie.org/1318458
Nov 22 21:33:05 <sugardave> you just want to query what the id attribute is of the tapped element?
Nov 22 21:33:19 <sugardave> is it a mojo widget?
Nov 22 21:33:27 <MBarvian_Pre> nope.
Nov 22 21:33:44 <MBarvian_Pre> sugardave: and yes to  the first question
Nov 22 21:33:44 <sugardave> but you still have a listener on it?
Nov 22 21:33:55 <mbarvian> yeah. the click() listener from jquery
Nov 22 21:35:09 <sugardave> the answer is that you can use prototype to do this, but without seeing all your layout and some code, I can't give any specifics
Nov 22 21:35:24 <mbarvian> sugardave: here my code (very basic):
Nov 22 21:35:41 <mbarvian> http://pastie.org/1318474
Nov 22 21:36:00 <mbarvian> i'm just making a calculator app. I want to take the id from the buttons and respond accordingly
Nov 22 21:36:16 <mbarvian> here's a screenie:
Nov 22 21:36:17 <mbarvian> http://www.imgftw.net/img//994030446.png
Nov 22 21:37:01 <sugardave> k
Nov 22 21:37:22 <wastrel> hey that's a nice calculator
Nov 22 21:37:33 <mbarvian> wastrel: why thank you :).  not done yet though
Nov 22 21:37:39 <wastrel> what are the dots at the bottom for
Nov 22 21:37:55 <mbarvian> wastrel: to switch between the views. on the left you have simple and on the right you have advanced like tan, cos, sin
Nov 22 21:37:56 <mbarvian> etc.
Nov 22 21:38:02 <mbarvian> I wasn't content with all the other oes
Nov 22 21:38:04 <mbarvian> *ones
Nov 22 21:38:06 <sugardave> so
Nov 22 21:38:22 <sugardave> here's what I would do in the old days, don't do it:
Nov 22 21:38:49 <sugardave> create a listener for each of those buttons that go to the same handler and your switch determines what to do from there
Nov 22 21:38:53 <sugardave> but that's a lot of listeners
Nov 22 21:39:04 <sugardave> here's how I would attack it now:
Nov 22 21:39:19 <sugardave> put one listener on div id "wrapper"
Nov 22 21:39:43 <sugardave> and the event object will contain somne properties to eventually discover which button it was
Nov 22 21:39:54 <sugardave> it may be event.target or event.currentTarget
Nov 22 21:39:55 <mbarvian> ah, like child and such?
Nov 22 21:40:14 <sugardave> sort of
Nov 22 21:40:16 <mbarvian> sugardave: would you recommend dropping jquery if I only want to use it for this?
Nov 22 21:40:40 <sugardave> there are a few others that I can't remember their names, but basically once we get the right event property, you just tack on .id and that's it
Nov 22 21:40:47 <sugardave> yeah, if that's all you were using it for, screw it
Nov 22 21:41:06 <mbarvian> sugardave: cool.  do you have any places I should look for something like this? I'm completely new to prototype
Nov 22 21:41:14 <sugardave> for instance switch(event.currentTarget.id) {}
Nov 22 21:41:34 <mbarvian> should I just use the standard "addEventListener" onto the wrapper?
Nov 22 21:41:47 <mbarvian> and listen for the click?
Nov 22 21:42:03 <sugardave> this.controller.listen or Mojo.Event.listen and look for Mojo.Event.tap
Nov 22 21:42:27 <sugardave> you're not really doing any prototype here, either, just Mojo
Nov 22 21:43:56 <sugardave> Mojo.Event.listen wants an element, but this.controller.listen only wants the id string
Nov 22 21:44:16 <mbarvian> cool. I have a wrapper now. so will this work, theoretically?
Nov 22 21:44:16 <mbarvian> http://pastie.org/1318498
Nov 22 21:44:46 <sugardave> yeah, assuming I have the right event property ;)
Nov 22 21:44:53 <lordbah> Trying to build an Ares app, and I'm trying to change the choices of a radio button dynamically from the scene assistant, but it isn't working. After setting choices, is there some 'redraw' method I need to call?
Nov 22 21:45:02 <mbarvian> sugardave: alright! thanks for the help. I'll get back to you and let you know if it works
Nov 22 21:45:07 <sugardave> np
Nov 22 21:45:48 <mbarvian> does palm's site have docs about event.current target and such?
Nov 22 21:45:53 <sugardave> hahaha
Nov 22 21:45:54 <sugardave> no
Nov 22 21:45:58 <mbarvian> lol
Nov 22 21:46:04 <oil> lol
Nov 22 21:46:18 <haeffb_pre> lordbah: are your choices in the model?
Nov 22 21:46:54 <mbarvian> sugardave: currentTarget didn't seem to work...
Nov 22 21:47:03 <sugardave> mbarvian: I have a debugObject method that spits out properties one at a time in the log...so that's how I always find the right one
Nov 22 21:47:06 <haeffb_pre> OR I should say 'your choices must be in the model'
Nov 22 21:47:07 <sugardave> try target then
Nov 22 21:47:28 <haeffb_pre> then update the model and call modelChanged
Nov 22 21:47:39 <mbarvian> hmm. nope
Nov 22 21:47:54 <mbarvian> sugardave: nice
Nov 22 21:48:12 <lordbah> haeffb_pre: No just an array of label/value pairs.
Nov 22 21:48:32 <sugardave> event is huge, so you miss stuff if you try to just stringify it, hold on a sec
Nov 22 21:48:43 <haeffb_pre> in attributes?
Nov 22 21:48:56 <haeffb_pre> or in model?
Nov 22 21:49:01 <mbarvian> sugardave: nevermind
Nov 22 21:49:03 <mbarvian> got it
Nov 22 21:49:09 <sugardave> cool :D
Nov 22 21:49:09 <mbarvian> awesome man
Nov 22 21:49:14 <mbarvian> screw jquery haha
Nov 22 21:49:18 <haeffb_pre> lordbah: where do you set the array?
Nov 22 21:49:18 <sugardave> which one was it?
Nov 22 21:49:29 <haeffb_pre> originalEvent
Nov 22 21:49:33 <mbarvian> sugardave: target
Nov 22 21:49:37 * haeffb_pre guesses
Nov 22 21:49:39 <sugardave> heh
Nov 22 21:49:51 <haeffb_pre> too easy!
Nov 22 21:50:13 <lordbah> haeffb_pre: I'm doing   this.controller.get("period").choices = this.timePeriods;    where timePeriods is the new label/value array and period is the name of the radio button widget.
Nov 22 21:50:24 <mbarvian> sugardave: seems significantly faster than jquery, too
Nov 22 21:50:35 <mbarvian> at least, it displays the test error faster
Nov 22 21:50:51 <haeffb_pre> lordbah: don't thinl that will work
Nov 22 21:50:53 <sugardave> yeah, Mojo events should be quicker than the libraries'
Nov 22 21:51:04 <mbarvian> alright well peace. thanks again
Nov 22 21:51:17 <lordbah> haeffb_pre: It doesn't. But what would?
Nov 22 21:51:43 <haeffb_pre> sugardave: you have a keyboard....copy/paste what lordbah missed...
Nov 22 21:52:08 <sugardave> 15:39 < haeffb_pre> OR I should say 'your choices must be in the model'
Nov 22 21:52:20 <sugardave> 15:40 < haeffb_pre> then update the model and call modelChanged
Nov 22 21:52:37 <sugardave> lordbah: there should be a model property for the widget
Nov 22 21:52:37 <haeffb_pre> yeah. that might work... :)
Nov 22 21:52:46 <sugardave> and that's where you place the choices array
Nov 22 21:52:48 <sugardave> so
Nov 22 21:52:58 <sugardave> widget.model.choices = your new choices
Nov 22 21:53:13 <sugardave> but ares people don't usually use modelChanged
Nov 22 21:53:17 <sugardave> so I think it goes
Nov 22 21:53:29 <sugardave> widget.setModel(newModel);
Nov 22 21:54:24 <lordbah> uhhh ... not following yet
Nov 22 21:54:26 <maik> ooh look what i noticed on http://www.precentral.net/ !! Emergency Lights is the first one in App Gallery about 1/5 down the page on the right
Nov 22 21:55:34 <sugardave> lordbah: okay, so how did you originally make this radio button thing?  is it a widget or did you do it in html?
Nov 22 21:55:37 <lordbah> In Ares with a radio button selected the right panel Settings has a Model category - but I have no idea what it's meant to control.
Nov 22 21:55:56 <lordbah> sugardave: I haven't done any HTML at all, just trying to get Ares to do something.
Nov 22 21:56:00 <sugardave> okay
Nov 22 21:56:13 <sugardave> so that model category that is where you set the choices?
Nov 22 21:56:28 <sugardave> let me see if I can get ares to work so I can see
Nov 22 21:56:29 <lordbah> sugardave: There's a General category where 'choices' is.
Nov 22 21:56:51 <sugardave> hmm, ok
Nov 22 21:58:08 <lordbah> sugardave: The Allen book reference section lists 'choices' under Attribute properties, if that helps.
Nov 22 21:58:24 <sugardave> lordbah: okay, tell me where radio button is :D
Nov 22 21:58:28 <sugardave> UI widgwets?
Nov 22 21:58:48 <lordbah> yes left side 7th down
Nov 22 21:59:11 <sugardave> erg, that's textfield for me
Nov 22 21:59:21 <lordbah> says A B
Nov 22 21:59:26 <sugardave> found it
Nov 22 21:59:28 <haeffb_pre> resize your window
Nov 22 21:59:28 <sugardave> okay, hang on
Nov 22 21:59:49 * haeffb_pre trying to b helpful!
Nov 22 22:00:03 <maik> why is it devs who write their code instead of using Ares feel like bumbling idiots when we actually try to use it?
Nov 22 22:00:13 <maik> er, write their code and debug with Emulator
Nov 22 22:00:20 <haeffb_pre> because we are?
Nov 22 22:00:21 <sugardave> haeffb_pre: hah, it won't go more vertical than I have
Nov 22 22:00:25 <maik> i apologize for that sounding way too elitist
Nov 22 22:00:38 <haeffb_pre> get a new monitor?
Nov 22 22:01:00 <sugardave> who knows enough Ares to tell me what the modelName property of the model section is?
Nov 22 22:01:09 * maik points
Nov 22 22:01:12 <lordbah> I've been coding for a living for over 20 years and I'm just befuddled by Ares. By JavaScript too, I can't see why people would want to use it.
Nov 22 22:01:13 <sugardave> lordbah: I'm going to have an answer for you real soon, hang tight
Nov 22 22:01:21 <haeffb_pre> maik: learn Ares now to prepare for Enyo
Nov 22 22:01:27 <dawm> whats the trick for getting line breaks in the catalog?
Nov 22 22:01:28 <maik> haeffb_pre: no want to....
Nov 22 22:01:44 <maik> dawm: ampersand (&) somewhere in your text
Nov 22 22:01:52 <haeffb_pre> dawm &
Nov 22 22:01:56 <dawm> k
Nov 22 22:01:58 <Rick_work> lordbah  what languages have you been coding in for 20 years?
Nov 22 22:02:11 <lordbah> Rick_work: C, C++, Java, C#
Nov 22 22:02:17 <Rick_work> ahhhhhh
Nov 22 22:02:37 <lordbah> Maybe I've been using IntelliSense as a crutch too much - just hit space bar and show me the darn properties of this object.
Nov 22 22:02:47 <Rick_work> Welcome to dynamically typed languages.  Welcome to functional languages.  Welcome to objects with both properties AND methods.
Nov 22 22:02:50 <maik> lordbah: my opinion of Java is like yours of JavaScript, i can't friggen stand it
Nov 22 22:02:54 <sugardave> who knows enough Ares to tell me what the replacement of this.controller is?
Nov 22 22:02:56 <maik> though i have an irrational fear of java
Nov 22 22:03:00 <sugardave> like this.$ or something?
Nov 22 22:03:06 <maik> sugardave: ur.Mom ?
Nov 22 22:03:10 <sugardave> :P
Nov 22 22:03:14 <maik> :DK
Nov 22 22:03:14 <Rick_work> exactly.  Every time I have to code in Java or C++ or C# I feel like someone's put  a straightjacket on me.
Nov 22 22:03:41 <haeffb_pre> lordbah: I never understood why people would want to use pointers to pointers...
Nov 22 22:03:59 <lordbah> haeffb_pre: yeah I won't attempt to defend that one
Nov 22 22:04:15 <maik> i'm certainly not a professional coder, more of a hobbyist.  i discovered Project Euler the other day and was playing with solving Problem 1 in C.  i couldn't figure out why for (int i=0; i<1000; i++) was invalid
Nov 22 22:04:33 <maik> turns out you can't declare your control variable in the for statement in C, but can in C++
Nov 22 22:04:37 <Rick_work> sugardave, you're looking for the equivalent of this.$  ????
Nov 22 22:04:44 <maik> The More You Know™
Nov 22 22:06:08 <sugardave> Rick_work: no, what to use instead of this.controller.get, basically
Nov 22 22:06:35 <haeffb_pre> .get doesn't work?
Nov 22 22:06:43 <Rick_work> sugardave  no problem one second
Nov 22 22:06:45 <sugardave> I just assumed....
Nov 22 22:06:57 <sugardave> all the ares code examples I've seen have some other thing
Nov 22 22:08:36 <deliciousmorsel> we can haz enyo?
Nov 22 22:08:38 <dawm> nice my pixi unactivated itself
Nov 22 22:08:41 <deliciousmorsel> anyone have any screenies
Nov 22 22:08:47 <deliciousmorsel> of enyo sample code?
Nov 22 22:08:54 <deliciousmorsel> or if its still prototype based?
Nov 22 22:08:56 <oil> watch video?
Nov 22 22:09:37 <oil> they showed the code for part of the netflix example in the presentation
Nov 22 22:10:18 <sugardave> lordbah: this may or may not work, but the idea is to get the widget's model (that contains the choices array), set a new choices array for it, and reset the widget model: http://webos.pastebin.com/T3sYw6Ew
Nov 22 22:10:38 <sugardave> oh wait
Nov 22 22:10:47 <sugardave> well, try it
Nov 22 22:10:55 <sugardave> I'm not sure about the setWIdgetModel syntax
Nov 22 22:11:18 <lordbah> For getWidgetModel, use the name of the widget as a string?
Nov 22 22:11:22 <sugardave> lordbah: ah, it would be setWidgetModel(widget, model);
Nov 22 22:11:33 <sugardave> lordbah: I think so
Nov 22 22:11:58 <sugardave> lordbah: if not, then the element itself
Nov 22 22:12:10 <sugardave> this.controller.get(idString);
Nov 22 22:12:31 <Rick_work> var tempitem = this.$.calcamt.fetchModelProperty("value");
Nov 22 22:12:40 <sugardave> ah, here we go
Nov 22 22:13:11 <Rick_work> so, this.$.widgetname.fetchModelProperty("propertyName")
Nov 22 22:13:15 <sugardave> so this.$.element gets the element already
Nov 22 22:13:51 <Rick_work> and this.$.widgetName.setWidgetModel("propertyname",{value: newValue});
Nov 22 22:13:59 <Rick_work> like that.
Nov 22 22:14:12 <sugardave> ah ha, I was way off
Nov 22 22:14:16 <Rick_work> this.$ is a special hash provided by Ares that contains references to all the controls owned by your scene (by name). This is the same set of controls listed in the View panel in Ares. These controls are JavaScript objects that provide an interface to access the native Mojo widgets and to affect the layout.
Nov 22 22:14:32 <Rick_work> If you see a property in the Property Inspector, you generally can modify that property at runtime with this kind of syntax:
Nov 22 22:14:32 <Rick_work> this.$.[name].set[Property](value);
Nov 22 22:14:33 <sugardave> perfect
Nov 22 22:15:07 <Rick_work> You can access all the widgets and nodes the usual mojo way using this.controller.get but frequently in Ares apps setting properties of widgets is most easily accomplished using this.$.
Nov 22 22:15:18 * sugardave sees Rick_work's previous book efforts turning back up.
Nov 22 22:15:50 <Rick_work> also,  it's nice to be able do do stuff like this:
Nov 22 22:15:53 <Rick_work> this.$.myUiModel = this.currentDatabaseRecord;
Nov 22 22:15:53 <Rick_work> this.controller.modelChanged(this.$.myUiModel);
Nov 22 22:15:53 <Rick_work> ...is valuable and lets your couple your data directly to your UI without the code needing to know the details.
Nov 22 22:16:32 <Rick_work> sugardave  I had to find the right chapter.
Nov 22 22:16:34 <sugardave> Rick_work: you lost me on that last one
Nov 22 22:16:52 <Rick_work> sure.
Nov 22 22:16:54 <sugardave> myUiModel is a widget?
Nov 22 22:17:06 <lordbah> this.$.period.setChoices(this.timePeriods);     period being the radio button and timePeriods being a shiny new array of label/value
Nov 22 22:17:07 <sugardave> or control
Nov 22 22:17:45 <lordbah> this.controller.modelChanged(this.$.what?);
Nov 22 22:18:12 <Rick_work> myUiModel is a widget containing widgets, and we saved the screen state to a db entry, and now we're restoring it without knowing ANYTHING about what's inside of it.
Nov 22 22:18:22 <sugardave> ah, got it
Nov 22 22:18:34 <sugardave> pretty handy :D
Nov 22 22:18:40 <sugardave> lordbah: use this example instead
Nov 22 22:18:49 <sugardave> this.$.widgetName.setWidgetModel("propertyname",{value:  newValue});
Nov 22 22:19:40 <sugardave> this.$.widgetName.setWidgetModel("propertyname",[{value: newValue}, ...etc]);
Nov 22 22:19:54 <sugardave> depends on what the property wants
Nov 22 22:19:56 <lordbah> this.$.widgetName.setWidgetModel("choices",{value: timePeriods}); ?
Nov 22 22:20:14 <sugardave> choices wants an array, though, so use the array instead of a single object
Nov 22 22:20:23 <lordbah> or this.$.widgetName.setWidgetModel("choices", timePeriods);   timePeriods is an array
Nov 22 22:20:28 <sugardave> yeah
Nov 22 22:20:55 * sugardave crosses his fingers.
Nov 22 22:22:32 <lordbah> We hung something. Emulator still trying to launch the app, with the flashing moon icon.
Nov 22 22:23:32 <sugardave> lordbah: http://webos.pastebin.com :D
Nov 22 22:23:40 <lordbah> ah, a breakpoint moved and it got hit, not hung
Nov 22 22:23:49 <sugardave> oh okay
Nov 22 22:24:39 <lordbah> Error: Error: Object period: Palm.Mojo.RadioButton has no method 'setWidgetModel', line object, file undefined, palmInitFramework347:2527
Nov 22 22:24:43 <sugardave> Rick_work: you can have an awesome cover graphic if you update the book to include Enyo
Nov 22 22:25:13 <Rick_work> Mar's wife?
Nov 22 22:25:50 <Rick_work> ok, what name did you give your widget lordbah?
Nov 22 22:25:51 <sugardave> well, there are a few different connections from the wiki page I looked at, but basically Ares and Enyo waging war against desktop/single-platform apps
Nov 22 22:26:32 <Rick_work> if you click on it, and look at the properties panel on the right side, any property there should be able to be set with setProperty.
Nov 22 22:26:40 <Rick_work> and setWidgetModel OUGHT to work.
Nov 22 22:26:45 <lordbah> Code in http://webos.pastebin.com/KtukuuRA
Nov 22 22:27:49 <lordbah> "period" is the name of the radio button widget. Mojo seems to know that it is a RadioButton too.
Nov 22 22:28:46 <sk4jc> Ok, I gotta do my daily rounds: Any Verizon Pre owners in here that want their GPS to work correctly?
Nov 22 22:29:28 <sugardave> that's weird
Nov 22 22:30:22 <sugardave> in straight Mojo, RadioButton has no methods so you would get that error there
Nov 22 22:30:54 <sugardave> is it because you have it in setup and perhaps Mojo has finished "painting" its specialness on the widgets?
Nov 22 22:31:09 <sugardave> lordbah: try moving it to activate() instead
Nov 22 22:31:13 <sugardave> just to see
Nov 22 22:31:56 <lordbah> just define an activate right after 'setup'? Doesn't anything need to be told to invoke activate()?
Nov 22 22:32:02 <sugardave> nope
Nov 22 22:32:18 <sugardave> I mean, yes then nope
Nov 22 22:32:38 <sugardave> just add an activate method and anything in there will get run each time the scene is activated
Nov 22 22:33:30 <lordbah> Still doesn't work, still get the same error message in the log viewer.
Nov 22 22:33:52 <sugardave> okay, screw it...I will give you the straight Mojo way to do it
Nov 22 22:33:59 <sugardave> just a few minutes
Nov 22 22:37:10 <lordbah> this.$.period.setChoices(this.timePeriods);   worked.
Nov 22 22:37:30 <sugardave> oh good :D
Nov 22 22:40:24 <joetweeply> dude this pixi sdl bug is so annoying
Nov 22 22:41:05 <rsanchez1> hopefully they fix in webos 2.0
Nov 22 22:41:23 <rsanchez1> have less pre-only games
Nov 22 22:41:39 <lordbah> Next question: first tap on the radio button does not call the periodTap function. But the second tap does. Any idea what that's about?
Nov 22 22:43:18 <joetweeply> i really don't want to ditch pixi support for my app.. but this one and only tutorial is so hard to grasp
Nov 22 22:43:40 <sugardave> lordbah: no, you got me on that one...I'm really lost with how they handle the automatic listen stuff
Nov 22 22:43:50 <techrush> just ditch the pixi ...everyone else does
Nov 22 22:43:57 <sugardave> joetweeply: what do you mean, for sizing or for features?
Nov 22 22:44:00 * techrush grumbles and messes with his pixi
Nov 22 22:44:20 <lordbah> sugardave: Actually not quite that simple. Only a tap which would leave no selection invokes the function. If I have two choices I can tap them alternately and periodTap never gets called.
Nov 22 22:44:21 <sugardave> all my clients' apps run on both just fine, I dev with pixi resolution :D
Nov 22 22:44:37 <joetweeply> sugardave no the problem is this 2d sdl bug
Nov 22 22:44:43 <sugardave> ah
Nov 22 22:44:46 <sugardave> pdk man
Nov 22 22:44:47 <sugardave>  :D
Nov 22 22:44:48 <joetweeply> my app is c++ sdl .. and this just doesn't work
Nov 22 22:46:04 <sugardave> lordbah: so I assume you have that periodTap function set in the Events onTap property thing?
Nov 22 22:46:25 <lordbah> sugardave: Yes. Looking at the events, maybe I should use onchange instead.
Nov 22 22:46:49 <sugardave> possibly
Nov 22 22:47:37 <lordbah> Did they document any of this stuff? I hate programming in the dark by guesswork.
Nov 22 22:47:58 <sugardave> lordbah: it's not well documented on the Ares side, better Mojo side docs
Nov 22 22:47:58 <SineOt> joetweeply: what's your app do?
Nov 22 22:48:16 <joetweeply> SineOt it's in the app catalog already... free app called "Feeding Eugene" .. just a simple tamagotchi clone
Nov 22 22:48:24 <sugardave> lordbah: actually I think it has something to do with your modelChanged line
Nov 22 22:49:00 <sugardave> lordbah: what is it you want to happen when the radio button is tapped?
Nov 22 22:49:02 <joetweeply> sadly the customers are mad because it does not work on pixi... so I either find out how to do it in openGL, or I ditch pixi support
Nov 22 22:49:03 <SineOt> there's still a lot of weird PDK stuff with the Pixi from what I can tell
Nov 22 22:49:18 <joetweeply> I don't wanna ditch pixi... but really? opengl?
Nov 22 22:49:41 <SineOt> SDL support on the Pixi has always lagged behind what the Pre could do
Nov 22 22:49:58 <SineOt> Pre had SDL stuff in like, what, 1.3? Pixi didn't get it until 1.4.5
Nov 22 22:50:06 <lordbah> sugardave: I want to know what the new value of the button will be. inSender.value appears to always be 4, so that's not right. The effect should be that it changes the 'data' variable, which is supposed to be set as the model for three Labels, and hopefully doing this changes the text shown on the screen.
Nov 22 22:51:40 <lordbah> sugardave: Looks like it's event.value that I want for the switch.
Nov 22 22:51:58 <sugardave> yes yes
Nov 22 22:52:24 <rsanchez1> joetweeply: is there no other option besides opengl?
Nov 22 22:52:25 <sugardave> that inSender confuses the shit out of me
Nov 22 22:52:35 <sugardave> straight Mojo gets the event object first
Nov 22 22:52:46 <joetweeply> rsanchez1: have not found any option... sdl rendering just does not work on pixi apparently
Nov 22 22:53:08 <SineOt> joetweeply: is it doing the like, weird box wireframe thing?
Nov 22 22:53:30 <lordbah> sugardave: However my call to modelChanged gets   WARNING: modelChanged() found no watchers. Did you call it with the ORIGINAL model object, and not a replacement?
Nov 22 22:53:32 <rsanchez1> joetweeply: maybe wait for 2.0, if the sdl bug is not fixed by then, maybe making it a hybrid app with HTML5 Canvas handling the graphics would work...
Nov 22 22:53:40 <sugardave> lordbah: okay, that's progress
Nov 22 22:54:01 <sugardave> what is that data supposed to be udating, though?
Nov 22 22:54:08 <sugardave> the radiobutton again?
Nov 22 22:54:08 <rsanchez1> I get that found no watchers warning often, never seems to break anything though
Nov 22 22:54:08 <joetweeply> rsanchez1: yeah making it a canvas app should work... but that would need a complete rewrite
Nov 22 22:54:11 <sugardave> or something else?
Nov 22 22:54:26 <joetweeply> SineOt: dunno actually... comments say it just shows two white bars changing colors
Nov 22 22:54:31 <rsanchez1> a hybrid app would avoid a complete rewrite if you keep the application logic as C/C++
Nov 22 22:54:52 <SineOt> rsanchez1: too bad hybrid apps don't work on the Pixi either lolololololol
Nov 22 22:54:53 <lordbah> sugardave: No. The scene has 3 Labels, with modelName set to "data", each having a different labelPropertyName of "wins", "losses", or "pct".
Nov 22 22:54:56 <rsanchez1> you would have to rewrite the graphics only, and repackage the application logic to respond to javascript callbacks
Nov 22 22:54:59 <joetweeply> rsanchez1: but are hybrid apps not forbidden by now?
Nov 22 22:55:11 <sugardave> ah
Nov 22 22:55:12 <rsanchez1> that's why you have to wait for 2.0 either way
Nov 22 22:55:12 <sugardave> okay
Nov 22 22:55:19 <joetweeply> damn
Nov 22 22:55:22 <rsanchez1> SineOt: is that confirmed with webos 2.0?
Nov 22 22:55:24 <sugardave> so you need to do something similar to the radio button but the label instead:
Nov 22 22:55:28 <lordbah> sugardave: I want the labels to show the number of wins/losses/etc.
Nov 22 22:55:35 <sugardave> this.$.[labelName].setValue(newValue);
Nov 22 22:55:37 <joetweeply> so i will have to disable pixi support for now.... wonder what that does to already installed apps
Nov 22 22:55:39 <SineOt> rsanchez1: not confirmed, but lord I'll be pissed if it's not
Nov 22 22:55:39 <rsanchez1> joetweeply: of course if you find some other option you won't have to wait...
Nov 22 22:56:05 <sugardave> assuming setValue is right for changing the label of the label :D
Nov 22 22:56:08 <joetweeply> rsanchez1: well only options should be complete rewrite in html5 or half rewrite into opengl
Nov 22 22:56:25 <Tibfib> so are the enyo widgets going to be similar to the mojo widgets?
Nov 22 22:56:32 <sugardave> Tibfib: nope
Nov 22 22:56:38 <Tibfib> crap
Nov 22 22:56:42 <rsanchez1> joetweeply: I guess webos 2.0 gives you half rewrite into canvas if the sdl bug isn't fixed by then
Nov 22 22:56:43 <lordbah> sugardave: I figured the whole point of this 'model' stuff is that I just change the data and as long as the connections have been set up then everything else happens automagically when I call modelChanged.
Nov 22 22:56:46 <Tibfib> I'm kinda annoyed by enyo.
Nov 22 22:57:02 <Tibfib> Palm shouldn't have announced till it is ready for people to use.
Nov 22 22:57:04 <rsanchez1> how is enyo annoying you already?
Nov 22 22:57:14 <rsanchez1> well they probably want to generate buzz
Nov 22 22:57:18 <SineOt> from the demo I think it is basically ready to use
Nov 22 22:57:24 <sugardave> lordbah: yeah, that is basically it, but you have to have a reference to the model from somewhere to change the actual model
Nov 22 22:57:25 <Tibfib> me, and others, don't wnat to develop on a dying platform.
Nov 22 22:57:30 <rsanchez1> the early access program will be opened by the new year anyway
Nov 22 22:57:38 <Tibfib> that's a lot of dev time.
Nov 22 22:57:44 <SineOt> I mean people are conjecturing that Enyo EAP will launch like, January 1st
Nov 22 22:57:48 <sugardave> your code is modiying this.data and there's no way to tell what widget that's supposed to be
Nov 22 22:57:55 <Tibfib> and palm hardly ever keeps launch dates
Nov 22 22:58:07 <halfhalo> lol... launch dates...
Nov 22 22:58:08 <SineOt> Tibfib: they've said Mojo is sticking around, and the big thing with Enyo (arbitrary sizes) is kind of moot right now anyways
Nov 22 22:58:13 <rsanchez1> I thought they said themselves that they will open EAP after new year
Nov 22 22:58:14 <lordbah> sugardave: In the designer setting the modelName of the widget to "data" isn't enough to do that?
Nov 22 22:58:27 <sugardave> but you have 3 widgets
Nov 22 22:58:36 <Tibfib> SineOt: not forever
Nov 22 22:58:37 <sugardave> and they all have a data modelName property?
Nov 22 22:58:39 <lordbah> sugardave: Right, 3 widgets all working off the same model data.
Nov 22 22:58:55 <lordbah> sugardave: But using different labelPropertyNames.
Nov 22 22:58:59 <sugardave> wait a second
Nov 22 22:59:13 <SineOt> Tibfib: yeah, but by the time it goes away I'm sure you'll have had a -ton- of time to port apps away from it
Nov 22 22:59:23 <Tibfib> true
Nov 22 22:59:24 <sugardave> oh
Nov 22 22:59:26 <sugardave> I see
Nov 22 22:59:29 <sugardave> label for wins
Nov 22 22:59:31 <sugardave> losses
Nov 22 22:59:32 <sugardave> pct
Nov 22 22:59:34 <sugardave> got it
Nov 22 22:59:37 <lordbah> yep
Nov 22 22:59:42 <SineOt> and if you don't have it ported over by the time it goes away, then well... you're adobe, lol
Nov 22 22:59:44 <Tibfib> I guess I'm just annoyed because Mojo is what I know well.
Nov 22 23:00:34 <joetweeply> okay I ditch pixi support... sucks but there is no other choice for now
Nov 22 23:00:35 <sugardave> lordbah: here's where I think your problem is.  You would need to pass an object with a 'data' property that contains your object
Nov 22 23:00:50 <sugardave> but there are other problems, I think
Nov 22 23:01:01 <lordbah> I would not be at all surprised ;-)
Nov 22 23:01:11 <sugardave> like the fact that you don't have a reference to the widgets' models themselves
Nov 22 23:01:19 <lordbah> So far *nothing* has "just worked" as I would have expected.
Nov 22 23:01:42 <SineOt> Adobe: Double lazy. Misses the shift to Intel for OSX because their dev environment sold off x86 compiler rights ages ago. Told by Apple to not use Carbon. Writes in Carbon anyways. Misses Carbon64 getting dropped in 10.5. (Keep in mind: CarbonLib was introduced... With OS9. In like 1998.)
Nov 22 23:01:45 <sugardave> lordbah: do you prefer GUI IDE or more comfortable learning straight code?
Nov 22 23:02:20 <lordbah> sugardave: I think I've been spoiled by Visual Studio on Windows.
Nov 22 23:02:27 <sugardave> okay :D
Nov 22 23:02:33 <sugardave> so here's what I would try
Nov 22 23:03:08 <sugardave> make 3 vars and do this.$.[labelName].getWidgetModel(); for each of your labels
Nov 22 23:03:36 <sugardave> then update the data property of those vars with the object you want (currently this.data)
Nov 22 23:03:54 <sugardave> then do this.controller.modelChanged(on each of those vars);
Nov 22 23:04:25 <SineOt> does anyone have a PSD or something of the Pre with the screen knocked out for you to put your own screenshot in?
Nov 22 23:04:26 <lordbah> sugardave: So each widget owns its own separate model?
Nov 22 23:04:30 <sugardave> lordbah: yes
Nov 22 23:05:03 <lordbah> *shakes head* I wonder why they did it that way.
Nov 22 23:05:53 <sugardave> lordbah: who knows, but that's how it is :D
Nov 22 23:06:02 <sugardave> now
Nov 22 23:06:06 <sugardave> here's something to consider
Nov 22 23:07:59 <sugardave> each widget has its own model, but the data property of that model can point to the same object (this.data, for instance)...then you should just be able to update the shared object, and then call modelChanged for all the models that you want to update
Nov 22 23:09:01 <sugardave> but you would have to set that somewhere...in Mojo we do it in the setup method with .setupWidget(name, attributes, model);
Nov 22 23:10:01 <joetweeply> a small step for me... but a sad step to all the pixi users out there
Nov 22 23:10:47 <SineOt> we're used to it :C
Nov 22 23:11:38 <joetweeply> still sucks
Nov 22 23:12:02 <Tibfib> as a dev, I'm on the fence about enyo. As a user, I'm pumped. Palm better have it ready soooon.
Nov 22 23:12:03 <joetweeply> especially another dent on my image of palm
Nov 22 23:12:35 <lordbah> How can I see the Mojo code Ares writes for the UI? Have to package it, download it, unpackage it?
Nov 22 23:12:41 <SineOt> well, what I guess needs to be said is that the Pixi is still a product of a budget strapped, sinking ship Palm :p
Nov 22 23:13:14 <sugardave> lordbah: good question
Nov 22 23:13:29 <sugardave> lordbah: you could just novaterm into the emulator and view it there in vi or something
Nov 22 23:13:37 <SineOt> lordbah: it gets stuck in like, chrome.js I think?
Nov 22 23:13:47 <sugardave> /media/cryptofs/some more paths/com.app.id
Nov 22 23:13:54 <sugardave> lordbah: or what SineOt just said :D
Nov 22 23:14:26 <lordbah> I can dl main-chrome.js but it's    opus.Gizmo({ and a bunch of widgets. Don't see any calls to setupWidget or anything like that.
Nov 22 23:16:37 <sugardave> Tibfib: I didn't get to see the "control"'s .js files, but I think this new way is going to be a lot better
Nov 22 23:16:56 <Tibfib> sugardave: in relation to?
Nov 22 23:17:25 <Tibfib> was that to me? if so, what were you refering to?
Nov 22 23:17:30 <sugardave> so imagine each control as a scene, I guess...now we have our scenes and we cram widget objects in there to pump the layout, etc.
Nov 22 23:17:41 * halfhalo is making popcorn in the loud popcorn machine
Nov 22 23:17:45 <sugardave> enyo, looks like you could ay each control is its own 'scene'
Nov 22 23:17:52 <Tibfib> oh, I haven't watched the vid yet
Nov 22 23:17:53 <sugardave> which is a bad word, because there are no scenes anymore
Nov 22 23:18:01 <Tibfib> maybe I should before passing judgement
Nov 22 23:18:14 <sugardave> yeah, I think it is going to kick serious ass
Nov 22 23:18:24 <sugardave> you CAN use Ares to code with it, but you don't HAVE to
Nov 22 23:19:02 <sugardave> each control appears to be contained in its own .js so completely modular, etc.
Nov 22 23:20:20 <Rick_work> you don't HAVE to use ares to code with the ares libs either.
Nov 22 23:20:35 <Rick_work> Enyo is a direct outgrowth of the ares libs and work almost exactly the same way.
Nov 22 23:20:47 <Rick_work> gotta go.  BBL
Nov 22 23:33:51 <Loudergood> so did anyone figure out if there actually were elephants upstairs on Saturday?
Nov 22 23:34:09 * Tibfib is liking enyo the more he watches the vid
Nov 22 23:35:40 <Loudergood> yeah, there were more oohs and ahhs in that session than any of the other ones I went to
Nov 22 23:38:23 * Tibfib pumped at ares + native code integration
Nov 22 23:38:36 <Tibfib> I might use ares then.
Nov 22 23:40:52 <Rick_work> enyo is just the ares libraries moded to work without any mojo stuff underneith.  It's the logical outgrowth of the ares libraries.
Nov 22 23:41:33 <HattCzech_work> so who attended the dev days? and how was it?
Nov 22 23:41:43 <HattCzech_work> i keep hearing all of this talk about enyo
Nov 22 23:44:23 <Tibfib> HattCzech_work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZX2dJW5Ss
Nov 22 23:44:30 * Tibfib just heard pre notification in vid
Nov 22 23:44:36 <Tibfib> someone forgot the silence switch!
Nov 22 23:45:59 <HattCzech_work> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsZX2dJW5Ss
Nov 22 23:46:17 <Tibfib> he just maximized the email app: OOOOHHH, AHHHH
Nov 22 23:46:19 <HattCzech_work> i hate youtube being blocked at work :)
Nov 23 00:26:19 <lordbah> sugardave: Found the answer. I had to initialize this.data = {...} before Ares.setupSceneAssistant(), or else there were "no watchers", and in the event handler do  this.data["wins"] = 20 because my code was creating a new object.
Nov 23 00:50:30 <randomOfAmber> how is webOS closed source when it runs on the linux kernel?
Nov 23 00:51:09 <halfhalo> Because the webos part of the stuff just runs on top of the Linux kernel?
Nov 23 00:51:37 <randomOfAmber> so because it doesn't directly use the kernel?  that's legit?
Nov 23 00:52:36 <halfhalo> They provide the source code for all open source components used, so yes.
Nov 23 00:52:56 <torchie> http://opensource.palm.com/packages.html
Nov 23 00:53:05 <halfhalo> What he said
Nov 23 00:53:43 <randomOfAmber> I'm not saying it should be oss, I'm just asking about it.  thanks for the info
Nov 23 01:04:41 * halfhalo totally has an A in his geology lab class.
Nov 23 01:05:59 <torchie> swaet
Nov 23 01:06:44 * halfhalo also has cookies bitches!
Nov 23 01:07:50 <haeffb> mattsmcnulty: Enyo looks great.
Nov 23 01:08:13 <haeffb> er. what you told us about it looks great. :)
Nov 23 01:08:45 <mattsmcnulty> thank you
Nov 23 01:08:56 <sugardave> agreed
Nov 23 01:09:09 <torchie> what happens
Nov 23 01:09:26 <torchie> if you have all the panels visible
Nov 23 01:09:32 <torchie> and you use the back gesture
Nov 23 01:09:54 <halfhalo> Yupyup, demo video was cool
Nov 23 01:10:07 <sugardave> hides some panels, I think....probably depends on the app :D
Nov 23 01:10:59 <haeffb> depends on device? may not even have a gesture area... ?
Nov 23 01:11:24 <halfhalo> That would suck...
Nov 23 01:11:39 <haeffb> mattsmcnulty: somebody suggested that you're the guy to talk to about getting an agenda view in the calendar. Or the exhibition agenda as an app...
Nov 23 01:11:54 <haeffb> Calendar NEEDS an agenda view.
Nov 23 01:12:01 <oil> mattsmcnulty: is there anything up about creating your own components for enyo?
Nov 23 01:12:22 <oil> in the presentation he showed how he used his netflix item component, but never how that was created
Nov 23 01:12:40 <haeffb> oil: get in line. I was first!
Nov 23 01:12:42 <sugardave> yeah, didn't get to see component .js :P
Nov 23 01:12:49 <oil> lol
Nov 23 01:13:45 <oil> thats the part i was interrested in
Nov 23 01:13:52 <sugardave> indeed
Nov 23 01:14:04 <oil> should have asked after the talk :/
Nov 23 01:14:16 <halfhalo> Yes you should have
Nov 23 01:14:33 * oil kicks self
Nov 23 01:14:46 * haeffb doesn't remember anyone getting to ask questions afterward...
Nov 23 01:15:30 <oil> yeah, it just ended
Nov 23 01:15:32 <mattsmcnulty> precentral got some time, then everyone was on busses to bowling
Nov 23 01:16:09 <mattsmcnulty> unf it is not released, and that was a sneak peek, and I cant really say much still
Nov 23 01:16:17 <sugardave> mattsmcnulty: how about a peek, then at those 2 components
Nov 23 01:16:19 <sugardave> dammit
Nov 23 01:16:28 <oil> lol
Nov 23 01:16:39 <haeffb> what if we give you a cookie....?
Nov 23 01:16:59 <haeffb> chocolate chip or oatmeal raisin guy?
Nov 23 01:17:00 * oil waits impatiently for the new year
Nov 23 01:17:15 <mattsmcnulty> I had to take an incredibly long ethics compliance class that might have actually had cookies as an example. that sounds about right
Nov 23 01:17:20 * oil walks out into the hills to freeze himself
Nov 23 01:17:23 <sugardave> lol
Nov 23 01:17:46 * halfhalo has aloooot of cookies here...
Nov 23 01:18:12 <sugardave> mattsmcnulty: for punishment, we will get chuq to delegate the acceptance to enyo early access to you
Nov 23 01:18:20 <halfhalo> Hahahaha
Nov 23 01:22:21 <kesne> hey all
Nov 23 01:28:18 <haeffb> mattsmcnulty: agenda view?
Nov 23 01:28:48 <haeffb> surely there's no ethical violation for taking cookies to create an agenda view...
Nov 23 01:28:57 <mattsmcnulty> I can pass on the feature request to the cal team. they get quite a few feature requests
Nov 23 01:29:17 <haeffb> ok, would be appreciated.
Nov 23 01:29:29 <kesne> Who here have I give the villo beta api set to?
Nov 23 01:30:35 <haeffb> will email a chocolate chip cookie.
Nov 23 01:30:45 <halfhalo> bah, make it a feaure DEMAND
Nov 23 01:30:51 <sugardave> heh
Nov 23 01:35:05 <torchie> THIS IS A STICKUP
Nov 23 01:35:07 <torchie> GIVE ME ALL OF YOUR FEATURES
Nov 23 01:35:11 <torchie> OR THE LADY GETS IT
Nov 23 01:35:24 <oil> lol
Nov 23 01:35:52 <kesne> Who is mattsmcnulty?
Nov 23 01:38:23 <sugardave> he's the guy that we will be bugging about Enyo until he cracks
Nov 23 01:38:55 <kesne> Is he Palm?
Nov 23 01:39:01 <sugardave> mmhmm
Nov 23 01:39:06 <kesne> Ah, gotchya.
Nov 23 01:39:09 <kesne> So.... Enyo....
Nov 23 01:39:31 <sugardave> is very nice, very nice
Nov 23 01:40:57 <kesne> From what I understand, you could not even touch the HTML really
Nov 23 01:44:37 <sugardave> we didn't get to see all of it, just an example of how events would be handled on the components
Nov 23 01:45:45 <Loudergood> yeah, it was pretty slick
Nov 23 01:46:41 <wastrel> :[
Nov 23 01:48:26 <Loudergood> there were more oohs and aahs in that session than all the others
Nov 23 01:50:38 <sugardave> I'd still like to see an example of a control/component .js file, but it will have to wait :P
Nov 23 01:50:55 <sugardave> I'm still going to call them widgets, I think
Nov 23 01:51:11 <sugardave> but I guess that doesn't really fit
Nov 23 01:51:12 <sugardave> hmm
Nov 23 01:52:00 <haeffb> I will call them Gary
Nov 23 01:52:04 <SineOt> call then wodgets
Nov 23 01:53:24 <sugardave> need something that rhymes with "orange"
Nov 23 01:53:30 <SineOt> blorange
Nov 23 01:53:39 <bpadalino> borange
Nov 23 01:53:47 <sugardave> I was thinking splorange, but borange is good
Nov 23 01:54:38 <torchie> papalalananange
Nov 23 01:55:27 <wastrel> clojure
Nov 23 02:09:33 <kesne> hey all
Nov 23 02:15:01 <sugardave> damn, netflix price increase in January
Nov 23 02:15:50 <summatusmentis> by a dollar
Nov 23 02:15:59 <SineOt> a dollar per DVD
Nov 23 02:16:04 <kesne> damnation
Nov 23 02:16:06 <halfhalo> your a dvd
Nov 23 02:16:32 <sugardave> but I just started and think my free month is up, I only get the good price for 1 month!
Nov 23 02:16:50 <kesne> Just get streaming
Nov 23 02:17:49 <sugardave> nah, there are some things that can't be streamed
Nov 23 02:18:11 <SineOt> yeah, and it's kind of dumb the stuff that can't
Nov 23 02:19:57 <kesne> villll ohhhhhh
Nov 23 02:46:41 <halfhalo> is crap
Nov 23 02:47:40 <kesne> +1
Nov 23 02:49:47 <Bmyers> #2
Nov 23 02:50:09 <Bmyers> oops
Nov 23 02:50:13 <kesne> Hehe
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 23 02:59:57 2010