**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 05 02:59:58 2010
Dec 05 03:00:50 <mugen-> what'cha trying to do?
Dec 05 03:00:55 <torchie> have you guys tried kinect
Dec 05 03:01:00 <mugen-> no :(
Dec 05 03:01:43 <torchie> it works
Dec 05 03:02:10 <dawm> i have to convert my game that runs inside a table/cells into a canvas game cause i cant animate a table/cells
Dec 05 03:02:28 <mugen-> ahh
Dec 05 03:02:33 <oil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo&feature=player_embedded
Dec 05 03:02:37 <torchie> having it recognize your body takes like
Dec 05 03:02:40 <mugen-> oil, hater :P
Dec 05 03:02:42 <mugen-> hehe
Dec 05 03:02:48 <torchie> this dynamic, slick, near-transparent setup
Dec 05 03:02:55 <torchie> and all the animation is 1:1 with your body lol
Dec 05 03:03:08 * oil remembers when games were hard
Dec 05 03:03:10 <torchie> I spent less time trying to win the game and more time dancing in front of it
Dec 05 03:03:22 <mugen-> OG ninja gaiden and contra style hard?
Dec 05 03:03:33 <mugen-> ghosts 'n gouls
Dec 05 03:03:37 <oil> yeah, to get you to put in more quarters
Dec 05 03:03:43 <mugen-> :)
Dec 05 03:03:48 <torchie> lol
Dec 05 03:04:17 <torchie> we gotta bring back the arcade
Dec 05 03:04:29 <oil> now you dont even have to do anything to win
Dec 05 03:04:38 <haeffb> OG asteroids
Dec 05 03:04:43 <oil> they already got $200 from you
Dec 05 03:04:52 <haeffb> played on a tabletop machine
Dec 05 03:04:55 <oil> they dont care if it sucks
Dec 05 03:04:56 <mugen-> oil, that's a little bit of an overexageration
Dec 05 03:04:56 <oil> lol
Dec 05 03:05:04 <torchie> winning and losing, though, are pretty arcane and primitive concepts
Dec 05 03:05:05 <oil> did you watch the video?
Dec 05 03:05:16 <oil> he got 1st in the race without moving at all
Dec 05 03:05:18 <torchie> I'm waiting for the evolution beyond it and there's only small trickles
Dec 05 03:05:24 <torchie> and not a revolution
Dec 05 03:05:24 <mugen-> well yeah... but i could show you a billion youtube videos of games that suck my ass
Dec 05 03:05:31 <mugen-> :P
Dec 05 03:05:45 <JenP> that's quite a visual mugen....
Dec 05 03:05:48 <mugen-> pick up the current generation of ninja gaiden, play it on hard, and get back at me
Dec 05 03:05:50 <SineOt> sugardave: you're awesome, just so you know~
Dec 05 03:05:54 <torchie> everything's still as violent, simplistic, and neanderthal as back in the day except now the games are easier and prettier
Dec 05 03:06:03 <mugen-> ack! sorry jen :) didn't know there were ladies present
Dec 05 03:06:19 <mugen-> btw, good call on that movie
Dec 05 03:06:27 * halfhalo likes violent
Dec 05 03:06:39 <JenP> lol
Dec 05 03:06:45 <JenP> did it make you cry?
Dec 05 03:06:46 <torchie> violent's cool when it's not all there is
Dec 05 03:06:49 <mugen-> oh yeah
Dec 05 03:06:56 <mugen-> many times over
Dec 05 03:07:00 * oil has ninja gaiden 2 for 360
Dec 05 03:07:22 <oil> its fucking hard
Dec 05 03:07:27 <mugen-> oh yeah
Dec 05 03:07:31 <oil> it is a good game
Dec 05 03:07:38 <SineOt> what movie, mugen- ?
Dec 05 03:07:42 <torchie> you know what's hard as hell
Dec 05 03:07:44 <torchie> mass effect
Dec 05 03:07:49 <torchie> not that the game is difficult or anything
Dec 05 03:07:49 <oil> i can't beat a level of ninja gaiden without doing anything
Dec 05 03:07:52 <torchie> but I just can't sit through it
Dec 05 03:08:21 * halfhalo likes mass effect
Dec 05 03:08:31 * halfhalo likes me2 more... and less!
Dec 05 03:09:30 <oil> me2 was better then me1
Dec 05 03:09:42 <halfhalo> I agree, save for one thing
Dec 05 03:09:45 <halfhalo> jumping
Dec 05 03:09:48 <oil> right
Dec 05 03:10:04 <oil> overall, they had good scifi stories, too
Dec 05 03:10:08 <halfhalo> yup
Dec 05 03:10:21 * halfhalo likes that me2 has reloadinzs
Dec 05 03:10:40 <torchie> and the camera's too close to the character
Dec 05 03:10:47 <torchie> shit is claustrophobic
Dec 05 03:10:54 <oil> though, me2s ending didn't seem as awesome as me1
Dec 05 03:11:03 <oil> it made me really want to play me3 xD
Dec 05 03:11:10 <SineOt> yeah that's the point xD
Dec 05 03:11:37 <halfhalo> hah
Dec 05 03:11:45 <oil> yeah
Dec 05 03:11:47 <oil> probably
Dec 05 03:12:08 <SineOt> also female Shepard > male Shepard
Dec 05 03:12:11 * halfhalo has such a juryrigged setup right now
Dec 05 03:12:17 * SineOt hates the male Shepard's voice actor. He's SO BAD
Dec 05 03:12:35 <halfhalo> "I am commander shepard, and this is my favorite channel!"
Dec 05 03:12:53 <oil> lol
Dec 05 03:13:28 <halfhalo> I think I have a ps3 on two computers right now
Dec 05 03:14:04 <halfhalo> And ethernet cords going EVERYWHERE
Dec 05 03:14:27 <oil> "i have a ps3 on two computers right now" sounds... wrong?
Dec 05 03:14:45 <mugen-> sorry, was afk...
Dec 05 03:14:50 <torchie> it's an electronic orgy
Dec 05 03:14:54 <halfhalo> well, I think its on an acer netbook which is on a mac mini
Dec 05 03:14:55 <mugen-> SineOt, Life as a House
Dec 05 03:15:15 <SineOt> ah
Dec 05 03:15:18 <halfhalo> purely because I'm running the ps3 through the mini for its speakers
Dec 05 03:15:30 <SineOt> The movie that kills me every time is The Fountain
Dec 05 03:15:33 * oil runs his xbox through his pc sound card
Dec 05 03:15:37 <SineOt> just THINKING about it has broken me down before :C
Dec 05 03:15:59 <halfhalo> PC is to loud for me to bother with that
Dec 05 03:16:02 <mugen-> brb
Dec 05 03:16:09 <halfhalo> although it does have the xfi
Dec 05 03:16:39 <dawm> awesome, what a perfect number of cells.. 187
Dec 05 03:17:02 <halfhalo> I own a single bluray, and I am watching it
Dec 05 03:17:17 * oil owns 0 bluerays
Dec 05 03:18:13 * haeffb has 2 bluerays from netflix that have been sitting on the entertainment center for 3 months.
Dec 05 03:18:22 * SineOt is watching Fantasia on Bluray :I
Dec 05 03:18:40 <torchie> ;o
Dec 05 03:18:48 * oil consumes all media on his pc
Dec 05 03:18:50 * halfhalo got star trek on bluray as a present and decided to watch that
Dec 05 03:18:58 <torchie> man star trek is ballin
Dec 05 03:19:02 <torchie> star trek 09 right
Dec 05 03:19:03 <oil> lol
Dec 05 03:19:37 <halfhalo> It was either hook up the ps3 to watch it or install silverlight
Dec 05 03:19:46 <dawm> i dotn own any bluray
Dec 05 03:20:00 <dawm> but ive got a ps3, and 360
Dec 05 03:20:03 <dawm> and netflix ;p
Dec 05 03:20:13 <JenP> ok when an saids the shoe is lined with chinchilla fur....it should be the real thing. Why the hell would I automatically assume its faux chinchilla!
Dec 05 03:21:07 <oil> lol
Dec 05 03:21:13 <haeffb> JenP: become outraged!
Dec 05 03:21:17 <oil> chinchilla is a great word
Dec 05 03:21:39 <JenP> seriously! I dragged my ass out to that store for nothing. Total waste of my time
Dec 05 03:21:43 <dawm> heh
Dec 05 03:22:00 <dawm> chincilla's are like grey.black,white,tan pikachu's
Dec 05 03:22:06 <haeffb> demand satisfaction!
Dec 05 03:22:10 <dawm> my ex used to have a few
Dec 05 03:22:12 * oil pretty much only buys things over the internets
Dec 05 03:22:18 <JenP> lol they're soooo soft.
Dec 05 03:22:19 * oil hasnt been to a mall in years
Dec 05 03:22:22 <halfhalo> them internets are good
Dec 05 03:22:26 * haeffb has been christmas shopping all night on amazon
Dec 05 03:22:28 * halfhalo goes to the mall for tommies
Dec 05 03:22:35 <JenP> what's a tommies?
Dec 05 03:22:39 <oil> amazon is a great website
Dec 05 03:22:53 <halfhalo> burger place with chili burgers
Dec 05 03:22:54 <JenP> especially if you're a prime member
Dec 05 03:22:54 * haeffb loves free super saver shipping
Dec 05 03:22:56 <SineOt> bugers
Dec 05 03:23:01 <SineOt> delicious amazing chili burgers
Dec 05 03:23:08 * halfhalo loves free 2 day shipping
Dec 05 03:23:19 <dawm> http://twitter.com/#!/webosinternals/status/11241477254422528
Dec 05 03:23:20 <dawm> http://twitter.com/#!/webosworld/status/11232005387718656
Dec 05 03:23:23 <SineOt> insane delicious
Dec 05 03:23:50 * SineOt high fives halfhalo
Dec 05 03:24:16 * oil suspects webosworld pre2ing service
Dec 05 03:24:19 <oil> for sprnt
Dec 05 03:24:21 * haeffb has chili & hotdogs in the fridge...now thinking about making a chili dog
Dec 05 03:24:29 <SineOt> dawm: webOSworld says "nope, it's related to http://webosworld.com/" so :<
Dec 05 03:25:00 <halfhalo> like they matter
Dec 05 03:25:10 <dawm> i like their logo
Dec 05 03:25:11 <dawm> :)
Dec 05 03:25:37 <oil> its not bad
Dec 05 03:25:56 <dawm> looks better transparent
Dec 05 03:26:07 <dawm> needs more shadow if its gonna be white
Dec 05 03:27:47 <dawm> so.. Palm Inc, and Hewlett Packard gonna be at CES
Dec 05 03:27:58 <dawm> wonder if they indeed are gonna be seperate even tho its the same room
Dec 05 03:29:21 <dawm> if i could get tix to CES i could prolly hitch a ride at work for free
Dec 05 03:29:27 <dawm> im not doing anything that week
Dec 05 03:29:37 * halfhalo has his pass for CES alreadies
Dec 05 03:29:51 * oil hopes halfhalo gets to see palmpad
Dec 05 03:30:05 * dawm hopes halfhalo gets facepalmed
Dec 05 03:30:08 * halfhalo needs to get an appt for palm
Dec 05 03:30:26 <dawm> Enyo FacePalm
Dec 05 03:31:04 * mugen- has his CES passes too XD
Dec 05 03:31:14 <halfhalo> media FTW
Dec 05 03:31:26 <mugen-> ^5
Dec 05 03:31:39 <dawm> hrm when is NAIAS
Dec 05 03:31:57 <mugen-> jan 11th?
Dec 05 03:32:01 <mugen-> 10th?
Dec 05 03:32:04 <mugen-> somewhere there
Dec 05 03:32:16 <dawm> looks like im going on my birthday
Dec 05 03:32:22 <dawm> 22nd
Dec 05 03:32:50 <dawm> yeah that will work, i knew there was a reason i had a few friends coming from out of town that week
Dec 05 03:32:54 <mugen-> sweet :)
Dec 05 03:33:01 <mugen-> i live too far away :(
Dec 05 03:33:44 <dawm> not me:P
Dec 05 03:34:07 <dawm> cant wait to see that concept subbie
Dec 05 03:34:20 <mugen-> you MUST take pictures
Dec 05 03:34:23 <mugen-> you have an SLR?
Dec 05 03:34:39 <dawm> no, sold it.. was too much of a camera for me
Dec 05 03:34:43 <halfhalo> hah
Dec 05 03:34:48 <mugen-> boo to that
Dec 05 03:34:54 <dawm> ive got a hd cam and a few 8mp+ point and shoots laying around
Dec 05 03:35:10 <mugen-> i see
Dec 05 03:36:04 <dawm> selling that slr allowed me to buy crap for the car ;p like a ported head
Dec 05 03:36:48 <dawm> bedtime
Dec 05 03:36:54 <mugen-> hmm
Dec 05 03:36:56 <mugen-> nn man
Dec 05 03:37:07 <dawm> seriously
Dec 05 03:37:15 <dawm> did you jsut say 'night night man'
Dec 05 03:37:34 <mugen-> sorry... it's habit from mmorpg :(
Dec 05 03:37:37 <dawm> LOL
Dec 05 03:37:40 <dawm> cya
Dec 05 03:37:42 <mugen-> l8
Dec 05 03:38:48 * haeffb hopes halfhalo remembers to wear his facepad
Dec 05 03:39:16 * haeffb is about 10 minutes late with that
Dec 05 03:39:38 <mugen-> naw
Dec 05 03:39:43 <mugen-> you're good
Dec 05 04:23:06 <SineOt> hey mattsmcnulty
Dec 05 04:23:09 <haeffb> OU takes the lead
Dec 05 04:23:19 <alexfner> hey people of the webOS
Dec 05 04:23:26 <mattsmcnulty> hey SineOt
Dec 05 04:23:30 <haeffb> hey mattsmcnulty. how's that agenda view coming along...?
Dec 05 04:23:40 <haeffb> hey alexfner
Dec 05 04:24:01 <alexfner> let's say I took all the icons from webOS stock and built a recreation of webOS in the browser, for no other reason than my own pleasure.  Rate the possibility of me getting a takedown notice from 0 to 100
Dec 05 04:24:03 <mattsmcnulty> I pop on here like once a month, and it takes you 45 seconds to remind me of the last time? ;-)
Dec 05 04:24:27 <alexfner> and not the applications, those would just be screenshots
Dec 05 04:24:28 <halfhalo> you should be here more often!
Dec 05 04:24:35 <alexfner> we have CAKE :)
Dec 05 04:24:48 <mattsmcnulty> halfhalo: yeah, I should, but generally I am beyond busy
Dec 05 04:24:53 <alexfner> stay away from oil though, he likes to drool
Dec 05 04:24:59 <halfhalo> EXCUSES
Dec 05 04:25:04 * haeffb keeps an elephant in the back room to remind me of stuff
Dec 05 04:26:14 * alexfner wonders if webOS will support hardware accel 3d transforms at some point in the near future... ponders
Dec 05 04:26:34 <torchie> does it really not do it in 2.0
Dec 05 04:26:51 <alexfner> I don't know
Dec 05 04:26:52 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner - did you not see my dev day talk?
Dec 05 04:27:06 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: no I've only made it through about a third of the videos
Dec 05 04:27:10 <mattsmcnulty> ah
Dec 05 04:27:16 <alexfner> which on is it?
Dec 05 04:27:18 <mattsmcnulty> hw acceleration is coming
Dec 05 04:27:21 <haeffb> last one
Dec 05 04:27:34 <haeffb> or some other one
Dec 05 04:27:40 <alexfner> oh wait are you the guy who heads the enyo team?
Dec 05 04:27:44 <mattsmcnulty> yeah, they made me go last. last time I do that. I spent the day waiting
Dec 05 04:27:51 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner - yes
Dec 05 04:27:58 <mattsmcnulty> I lead enyo, mojo, ares, sdk, etc
Dec 05 04:28:06 <haeffb> and agenda view
Dec 05 04:28:09 <mattsmcnulty> lol
Dec 05 04:28:09 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: so is the canvas hardware accel as well?  I had some questions about that
Dec 05 04:28:21 <mattsmcnulty> that I do not know
Dec 05 04:28:35 <mattsmcnulty> not sure how webkit handles that
Dec 05 04:28:35 <alexfner> bah
Dec 05 04:28:47 <halfhalo> mattsmcnulty: you going to be at ces?
Dec 05 04:29:13 <mattsmcnulty> halfhalo: can't really comment on that either way
Dec 05 04:29:31 <haeffb> will you bring a palm tablet if you do go to ces?
Dec 05 04:29:41 <halfhalo> awww
Dec 05 04:29:48 <alexfner> it seems like no one really knows for sure why canvas is implemented.  It's an okay 2d API, but it doesn't support CMYK (although at some point it did but was removed), and when you can hardware accel dom elements why would you draw to the canvas and have to deal with iffy javascript timers
Dec 05 04:29:49 * halfhalo is trying to get a palm/hp meeting
Dec 05 04:30:11 <mattsmcnulty> lol
Dec 05 04:30:30 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: what was enyo based off of?  You mentioned a js framework you guys were using internally anyways
Dec 05 04:30:39 <mattsmcnulty> canvas and webgl are related, from the webkit side
Dec 05 04:31:11 * halfhalo is totally justifying it by saying that webos runs games, and as such is related to the gaming media outlet he is going as
Dec 05 04:31:35 <mattsmcnulty> it is related to opus-js, which is a framework some of us did both before and while at palm. but just related, not based off of
Dec 05 04:31:42 <haeffb> new on twitter: "mattsmcnulty doesn't deny plans to bringing a palm tablet to ces."
Dec 05 04:31:48 <mattsmcnulty> lol
Dec 05 04:31:49 <halfhalo> hah
Dec 05 04:31:49 <torchie> mattsmcnulty: are there any plans for support in-browser for javascript touch events
Dec 05 04:32:12 <mattsmcnulty> meaning "standard" touch events?
Dec 05 04:32:17 <mattsmcnulty> ala mobile safari?
Dec 05 04:32:42 <torchie> yeah
Dec 05 04:32:44 <alexfner> torchie: that's a million dollar question, that many have asked before, with no response
Dec 05 04:32:50 <torchie> :O
Dec 05 04:33:27 <mattsmcnulty> let me say this - I am a big believer in not trying to do extra stuff. give devs the raw goods, let them do what they want
Dec 05 04:34:26 <Spanska> Is there anyone using webOS 2.0 or anything newer on a real device or emulator and could test a little something for me with my app?
Dec 05 04:34:32 <mattsmcnulty> mojo does some stuff that does not adhere to that philosophy, including around touch events
Dec 05 04:35:21 <torchie> what would you recommend if they wanted drag and drop via touch in a canvas element :(
Dec 05 04:36:39 * SineOt is just way happy to have found out that webkitTransitionEnd events are in fact supported~
Dec 05 04:37:08 <alexfner> enyo seems extremely promising.  But coincidentally seeing something that will allow easier/faster/more robust app development in the future has cause me to stop working on any mojo based apps, any idea of an ETA for getting enyo in the hands of devs mattsmcnulty ?
Dec 05 04:37:30 <SineOt> alexfner: all that's been said as far as I know is "early next year."
Dec 05 04:37:47 <torchie> how about a new phone on sprint "early next year"
Dec 05 04:38:27 <mattsmcnulty> let me put this another way - let's say there are other webkit-based platforms, or ones which use webkit. if your touch/canvas stuff were to work on those, it is my opinion that it should work pretty much unaltered on webos
Dec 05 04:38:41 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner - SineOt is correct, early next year
Dec 05 04:39:08 <mattsmcnulty> and there is a reason they had me go at the very end of dev day, alexfner
Dec 05 04:39:15 <alexfner> haha
Dec 05 04:39:15 <mattsmcnulty> to your point
Dec 05 04:39:37 <alexfner> so the browser based paint application that I've been working on with an iPad that uses touch events, websockets, and hardware accel css will probably work on future palm products?
Dec 05 04:39:49 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: since it seems to be "ask questions that couldn't really be answered anyways because of NDA" can I just say thanks to whoever is responsible for supporting webkitTransitionEnd even if there's no @font-face? lol
Dec 05 04:39:55 <torchie> pretty pretty please?
Dec 05 04:40:27 <Spanska> mattsmcnulty: any ideas what's going on with the shipping of Palm Pre devices related to the offer in October for free develper devices?
Dec 05 04:40:32 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner: I am not promising any future features or support, merely stating my personal philosophy, which may or may not indicate your assumption is correct
Dec 05 04:40:33 <torchie> I want to do a little game with a canvas and touch events but I don't care for ios or android
Dec 05 04:41:00 <SineOt> Spanska: if you have a contact at Palm who contacted you about getting accepted, email them!
Dec 05 04:41:02 <torchie> mattsmcnulty: print out 300 A4 sheets with your philosophy on it and thumb tack them around the office!
Dec 05 04:41:17 <Spanska> SineOt: I already did last week, no answer
Dec 05 04:41:18 <mattsmcnulty> as I said in my talk, my team tends to use safari/chrome on the desktop for 90% of our development
Dec 05 04:41:28 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: sure sure, your statements represent your opinion and are not necessarily indicative of any future palm products or plans, etc. etc. etc.
Dec 05 04:41:38 <SineOt> torchie: toss in that one open source (seriously lol) 2000 page suicide note
Dec 05 04:41:51 <torchie> open source suicide note lol
Dec 05 04:42:14 <Spanska> SineOt: it's been a month an a half already but I don't know if I should consider that long or short, I don't know what shipping times are to get the device up to here
Dec 05 04:42:15 <SineOt> yeah guy released it as creative commons. Even cited everything MLA with a table of contents
Dec 05 04:42:28 <SineOt> that takes a special kind of dedication and/or crazy
Dec 05 04:42:31 <mattsmcnulty> torchie: no need to print stuff out - I tend to be quite vocal and get my way anyway ;-)
Dec 05 04:42:53 <torchie> do you yell that you're mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore :D?
Dec 05 04:42:55 <SineOt> Spanska: up to here? Canada? :]
Dec 05 04:43:01 <Spanska> SineOt: haha yes!
Dec 05 04:43:13 <SineOt> haha, well who knows! Customs gets weird
Dec 05 04:43:30 * SineOt hates customs. Sometimes stuff goes right through, sometimes it disappears for a week or two. Gggh.
Dec 05 04:43:50 <mattsmcnulty> torchie: nah, but there's a reason why two years ago I was at a startup doing web stuff, 18mo ago I had 4 people on the sdk team, and am now doing a whole lot more with a lot more ppl than that.
Dec 05 04:43:53 <Spanska> I thought I would get it before Christmas holidays.. I'm still hoping but maybe I shouldn't really hold on that
Dec 05 04:44:13 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: if you ever need someone to fetch coffee... ;D
Dec 05 04:44:34 <mattsmcnulty> Spanska: no idea on the pre shipping thing - someone on developer relations would know
Dec 05 04:44:41 <alexfner> webOS happens to be the only mobile platform whose application model is based on a web browser and (as of 1.4.5, seeing as how I don't have 2.0 or any 2.0 devices) doesn't support standardized web application scripting.  THere is much irony in this
Dec 05 04:44:44 <SineOt> Spanska: I'd probably just email your contact again and talk to chuqui if you can catch him on IRC
Dec 05 04:44:57 <mattsmcnulty> SineOt: if you know JS well, we are hiring, including me
Dec 05 04:45:10 <Spanska> I would certainly get a new Palm Pre 2 if I could use it anywhere in the world.. I don't understand why Palm didn't include all frequencies on the device
Dec 05 04:45:34 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: I know it kind of sort of! Haha. I'm getting better at it considering I had never touched the stuff before about a month and a half ago
Dec 05 04:46:03 <mattsmcnulty> yeah. in general palm is hiring engineers like crazy, just for the room's benefit.
Dec 05 04:46:07 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: and yeah, I know Palm is hiring. And that there's a job spot for a Video Conferencing Engineer who knows mobile development :p
Dec 05 04:46:16 <alexfner> heh, no interns :(
Dec 05 04:46:18 <SineOt> ~wonder what that could be for~
Dec 05 04:46:24 <mattsmcnulty> lol
Dec 05 04:46:24 <alexfner> I'll be okay though :)
Dec 05 04:46:29 <mattsmcnulty> is that really on the site?
Dec 05 04:46:44 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: yes
Dec 05 04:47:12 <torchie> is palm hiring a gyroscope engineer
Dec 05 04:47:34 <mattsmcnulty> SineOt: funny
Dec 05 04:47:58 <alexfner> whoever writes the video chat/conferencing stuff for the phone should write a node service similar to the one tim caswell wrote to stream an mpeg4 video, except the source would be the camera.  I don't know if this would actually work, but it would be incredibly neat if possible
Dec 05 04:47:58 <Tibfib> mattsmcnulty: I'm hoping to intern at palm soon
Dec 05 04:48:19 <SineOt> "Design and develop innovative client-server application solutions for mobile devices using C/C++, JavaScript, and other common web standards. Work closely with the Device Architect to make design and implementation decisions;"
Dec 05 04:48:24 <mattsmcnulty> I hired Tim about a month ago
Dec 05 04:48:37 <alexfner> Tibfib: I tried that route, it didn't work out as palm is in quite the transition, and so I'm off to Apple.  How has the search been going for you?
Dec 05 04:48:55 <Spanska> mattsmcnulty: are these jobs opportunities in California, USA?
Dec 05 04:48:57 <mattsmcnulty> SineOt: sounds like a very generic job description
Dec 05 04:48:58 <Tibfib> alexfner: I haven't been searching.. Just a goal eventually. Still in highschool.
Dec 05 04:48:59 <mattsmcnulty> yes
Dec 05 04:49:14 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: have you ever seen his .ogg streaming server on node?
Dec 05 04:49:31 <mattsmcnulty> nope. again, with the whole busy thing
Dec 05 04:49:31 <alexfner> Tibfib: ah, I see
Dec 05 04:49:33 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: yeah, but "Experienced Video Conferencing Software Engineer" isn't very generic
Dec 05 04:49:47 <alexfner> heh
Dec 05 04:50:02 <mattsmcnulty> SineOt: I am sure that is just because people who know video conferencing just happen to be good engineers for other stuff ;-)
Dec 05 04:50:22 <sugardave> Palm needs some dedicate Enyo educators/curriculum managers :D
Dec 05 04:50:40 <mattsmcnulty> we sure do
Dec 05 04:50:50 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: which is why you post the job under "Video Conferencing Software Engineer," saying that they'll work with the hardware team ;9
Dec 05 04:51:42 <alexfner> y'all should check out <device> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/commands.html#devices
Dec 05 04:51:49 * sugardave knows at least one person with > 5 years in the technical education development field.
Dec 05 04:51:51 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: what exactly counts as knowing JS "well," haha
Dec 05 04:52:05 <alexfner> web browsers are now changing at an incredibly fast pace
Dec 05 04:52:30 <alexfner> websockets and <device> are going to create whole new interactive experiences that people wouldn't have associated with a web browser
Dec 05 04:52:31 <SineOt> alexfner: haha, a USB fishtank
Dec 05 04:52:48 <alexfner> I can't wait!
Dec 05 04:53:08 * alexfner wonders what ever happened to npr coming to webOS
Dec 05 04:54:25 <SineOt> they must have got distracted by their USB fishtanks
Dec 05 04:55:36 <mattsmcnulty> SineOt: if you are a good engineer, we will hire you. if you know js inside and out, it would prob be on my team
Dec 05 04:55:56 * Tibfib wishes he was out of highschool
Dec 05 04:56:01 <rwhitby> mattsmcnulty: do you know of any code anywhere which could be used to display and edit JSON records from a db8 database?  Doing it from the command line is incredibly painful.
Dec 05 04:56:56 <SineOt> rwhitby: I think couchDB has some tools, shouldn't they be interchangeable?
Dec 05 04:57:04 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: I suppose if I have to ask, I'm not a good engineer :]
Dec 05 04:57:06 <mattsmcnulty> rwhitby: agreed on the pain. we wrote a little tool on the team using ares tech to query/edit db stuff
Dec 05 04:57:21 <Deihmos> did samsung apply there own custom icons for froyo or are these stock icons? they look so much better
Dec 05 04:57:26 <rwhitby> mattsmcnulty: any chance of that becoming sample code ?
Dec 05 04:57:40 <Deihmos> wrong channel
Dec 05 04:57:44 <Tibfib> mattsmcnulty: where would you recommend for a college?
Dec 05 04:57:51 <alexfner> has anyone seen that grooveshark.com rewrote their site in almost entirely js (except for the connection to the media streamer, still written in flash.  Presumably for content protection)
Dec 05 04:57:55 <mattsmcnulty> rwhitby: prob not until preview program
Dec 05 04:58:13 <Tibfib> or alexfner, best schools for programming?
Dec 05 04:58:18 <alexfner> Tibfib: this is an extremely open ended question
Dec 05 04:58:26 <mattsmcnulty> Tibfib: anyplace with a good eng dept. Illinois, Cal Berkeley, UC santa cruz
Dec 05 04:58:38 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: don't forget U of M :D
Dec 05 04:58:49 <mattsmcnulty> Or of course engineering and overall powerhouse of academics Boston College
Dec 05 04:58:52 <mattsmcnulty> agreed on Mich
Dec 05 04:59:17 <alexfner> Michigan is pretty cool, and ann arbor is great.  But it's cold here.  Tibfib check it out!
Dec 05 04:59:25 * Tibfib looks things up
Dec 05 04:59:34 <mattsmcnulty> afk for a min, laundry
Dec 05 04:59:36 <alexfner> Tibfib: oh and for out of state people it's expensive
Dec 05 04:59:48 <Tibfib> :/
Dec 05 05:00:28 <Tibfib> kstate has a good engineering program.. dunno about computer science specifically
Dec 05 05:01:11 * haeffb has heard of a place called MIT that's supposed to be pretty good
Dec 05 05:01:31 * Tibfib is supposed to be meeting with guy in program at ksu
Dec 05 05:01:57 <Tibfib> head of, or something
Dec 05 05:02:00 <alexfner> haeffb: never heard of it?  Is that the prestigious Montana Institute of Trenches?
Dec 05 05:02:20 <alexfner> All your classes in trench building!
Dec 05 05:02:23 <alexfner> trenches 101
Dec 05 05:02:38 <alexfner> Gotta go, don't want to be late for SHOVEL 212
Dec 05 05:03:15 <SineOt> "Cannot call method 'addEventListener' of null, line object, file undefined" such a helpful error message :9
Dec 05 05:03:18 * alexfner has taken the joke far enough.  Will now wrap it up and put it away until some time next year where he will attempt to use it again
Dec 05 05:04:47 <mattsmcnulty> back
Dec 05 05:04:59 <Deihmos> i think that froyo leak is the final build. everything works perfect
Dec 05 05:06:11 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: all of the open job hiring spots are on the career site, right?
Dec 05 05:06:37 <mattsmcnulty> my team is largely cal berkeley and illinois for some reason. haven't really worked with any MIT engineers, but my whole career has been out here
Dec 05 05:07:23 <mattsmcnulty> SineOt: generally yes, though I have spots for things I have not written descriptions of
Dec 05 05:08:34 <alexfner> didn't know you could do element.style.webkitTransform this whole time.  sheeze
Dec 05 05:08:35 <mattsmcnulty> both the one near boston and the montana trench one
Dec 05 05:09:14 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: so enyo is an application and animation framework wrapped into one, right? :)
Dec 05 05:09:18 * sugardave points and laughs at alexfner.
Dec 05 05:09:40 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner - no, app framework, animations come from webkit, but we wrap stuff or do it for you
Dec 05 05:09:44 <mattsmcnulty> like if you want to scroll something
Dec 05 05:09:54 <alexfner> sugardave: in fairness, until recently I wasn't super interested in webkit transforms
Dec 05 05:10:11 <mattsmcnulty> webkit transforms are pretty interesting
Dec 05 05:10:15 * sugardave is horribly unfair.
Dec 05 05:10:40 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: so it's *can* provide hardware accelerated animation
Dec 05 05:10:51 <mattsmcnulty> yeah
Dec 05 05:10:57 <alexfner> werd
Dec 05 05:11:22 <mattsmcnulty> it is pretty easy to do things to make hardware acceleration not work. like change anything on the layer you are transforming
Dec 05 05:11:27 <mattsmcnulty> texture has to be static
Dec 05 05:12:19 <mattsmcnulty> speaking purely about webkit transforms regardless of platform, like in the desktop
Dec 05 05:12:58 <Tibfib> mattsmcnulty: this illinois? http://www.devryinc.com/our-schools/devry-university.jsp
Dec 05 05:13:01 <alexfner> will webkit throw any sort of errors if a transform is not being hardware accelerated?  Something that is exposed to devs but wouldn't stop application flow
Dec 05 05:13:37 <mattsmcnulty> Tibfib, heh, no, U of I urbana/champaign
Dec 05 05:13:58 <Tibfib> oh, didn't notice that one.
Dec 05 05:14:15 <Tibfib> thanks
Dec 05 05:14:21 <alexfner> famously, the guys who made and then sold youtube went to U of I
Dec 05 05:14:28 <alexfner> that's your fact of the day
Dec 05 05:14:59 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner: no, how it works is webkit tries to take a whole layer (in it's speak, not like a div) and that texture moves to the GPU which can manipulate it. If something overlaps or changes on the texture, the gpu cant deal, and it falls back to software rendering
Dec 05 05:15:43 <mattsmcnulty> from JS you have no idea what's going on, whether it is on the gpu or not
Dec 05 05:16:01 <mattsmcnulty> which is good, as there are times or platforms on which the gpu is not there
Dec 05 05:17:14 <alexfner> so I take from your comments that there is no exposure to devs if a layer cannot be manipulated by the GPU, then there is no way for a dev to know this for certain
Dec 05 05:17:25 <alexfner> so let's say I wanted to enact some transforms on webOS
Dec 05 05:17:26 <mattsmcnulty> nope
Dec 05 05:17:30 <alexfner> ah alright
Dec 05 05:17:46 <alexfner> moz had an article on hardware accel posted recently http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/09/hardware-acceleration/
Dec 05 05:19:12 <mattsmcnulty> best to stick to webkit stuff and not moz, but in general that's a fine article
Dec 05 05:19:48 <alexfner> yeah I was just noting it for interest's sake
Dec 05 05:20:51 <alexfner> it must be nice to have control of a platform and not have to deal with thousands of different hardware configs and different OSes
Dec 05 05:21:21 <mattsmcnulty> not having to worry about non-webkit is nice. but all devices are different
Dec 05 05:22:05 <alexfner> anyone read about netflix building their apps on top of webkit?  was quite informative
Dec 05 05:22:47 <mattsmcnulty> too bad they did such a crappy job of it on iOS. it's a bad example of what is possible, from a UI perspective
Dec 05 05:23:25 <alexfner> oh?  I haven't actually downloaded the app.
Dec 05 05:23:45 <mattsmcnulty> essentially their website in a webview
Dec 05 05:24:23 <alexfner> oh, hah
Dec 05 05:24:37 <mattsmcnulty> buttons don't click, there are lots of delays
Dec 05 05:24:46 <mattsmcnulty> I mean the functionality is awesome and I use the app on my ipad all the time
Dec 05 05:25:09 <alexfner> but the implementation is poor?
Dec 05 05:25:19 <alexfner> can you use airplay with netflix?
Dec 05 05:26:18 <sugardave> I have the extra-special PS3 webkit Netflix...it's pretty alright
Dec 05 05:26:37 <mattsmcnulty> I have that
Dec 05 05:26:52 <torchie> ive used netflix watch instantly on a win laptop do i count :(
Dec 05 05:27:10 <codeslaw> my tv has netflix built in
Dec 05 05:27:14 <mattsmcnulty> checking airplay at the moment
Dec 05 05:27:18 <mattsmcnulty> I think audio did work
Dec 05 05:27:22 <mattsmcnulty> I dont have an apple tv though
Dec 05 05:27:35 <halfhalo> i have someps3 ver
Dec 05 05:27:35 <mattsmcnulty> because it seems useless. I have a mac mini as part of my entertainment system already
Dec 05 05:27:52 <alexfner> I dunno, I rather like the idea of the apple tv but I have yet to get one
Dec 05 05:27:52 <mattsmcnulty> and an airport express I can stream audio to
Dec 05 05:28:03 <sugardave> it's because he has a webOS tv
Dec 05 05:28:07 <mattsmcnulty> lol
Dec 05 05:28:08 <sugardave> shh
Dec 05 05:28:54 <alexfner> whoa Opus Composer = Ares
Dec 05 05:29:02 <mattsmcnulty> imo, the xbox 360's netflix is the best
Dec 05 05:29:02 <alexfner> it all makes sense now
Dec 05 05:29:10 <SineOt> alexfner: if you're going to use element.style.webkitTransform, you can use webkitTransitionEnd to find when it finishes! :D
Dec 05 05:29:16 <SineOt> I am still so blown away by that
Dec 05 05:29:17 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner: yes.
Dec 05 05:29:26 <sugardave> SineOt: yeah, it's cool :D
Dec 05 05:29:40 <alexfner> SineOt: is it an event that fires?
Dec 05 05:29:51 <SineOt> sugardave: I tried the way you had it and couldn't get it to work, but doing Event.observe('clockDisplay', 'webkitTransitionEnd', this.timerUp); works fine
Dec 05 05:30:05 <sugardave> I'm doing it on image load
Dec 05 05:30:09 <SineOt> alexfner: yeah, and I thought that it wasn't supported in webOS, but it turns out it is
Dec 05 05:30:19 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner: if you were to learn opus, or ares-based apps for that matter, the jump to enyo isn't far, esp if you know mojo
Dec 05 05:30:19 <sugardave> image.observe(blah blah)
Dec 05 05:30:21 <SineOt> I just have it stuck in my scene activate
Dec 05 05:30:31 <codeslaw> i thought there were issues with webkitTransitionEnd
Dec 05 05:30:32 <mattsmcnulty> concepts are the same as opus, but trying to do what mojo does as well
Dec 05 05:30:42 <SineOt> codeslaw: apparently not
Dec 05 05:30:42 <sugardave> codeslaw: it works for onimageload :D
Dec 05 05:30:49 <sugardave> that's all I know for sure
Dec 05 05:31:00 <codeslaw> word
Dec 05 05:31:06 <sugardave> s/for/with/
Dec 05 05:31:12 <torchie> wait
Dec 05 05:31:18 <SineOt> and if you set it up with Event.observe along with things like widget listeners, it works fine there too
Dec 05 05:31:24 <SineOt> so apparently it DOES work
Dec 05 05:31:39 <sugardave> I haven't tested, but I would imagine it works with listen() in Mojo, too
Dec 05 05:31:46 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: what does mojo do that you want to retain?
Dec 05 05:31:54 <torchie> would a webOS 2.0 app be able to have a synergy profile for something besides messaging services?
Dec 05 05:32:04 <sugardave> torchie: yeah, I think so
Dec 05 05:32:09 <torchie> for example a docs app connecting to a google account on a palm profile?
Dec 05 05:32:22 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner: the functionality, not the technique or code. infinite lists, etc
Dec 05 05:32:42 <alexfner> ah
Dec 05 05:33:05 <sugardave> now that I finally feel I can wrangle Mojo to do what I want you guys are ripping away my security blanket :P
Dec 05 05:33:22 <mattsmcnulty> heh, trust me - it's way better on the other side
Dec 05 05:33:34 * alexfner giggles at sugardave
Dec 05 05:33:36 <sugardave> but learning about flex-box has been enough to make it not matter much
Dec 05 05:33:41 <torchie> on a scape from 1 to 10
Dec 05 05:33:43 <mattsmcnulty> hmm?
Dec 05 05:33:44 <torchie> scale
Dec 05 05:33:46 <torchie> scalescape
Dec 05 05:33:48 <SineOt> Yeah, flexbox is amazing <3
Dec 05 05:34:06 <codeslaw> what is this "flexbox" you type of
Dec 05 05:34:20 <SineOt> one of the new CSS3 methods
Dec 05 05:34:39 <SineOt> lets you do things like flexible columns, and ease centering vertically and horizontally of divs
Dec 05 05:34:59 <alexfner> the camera should be able to interface with the 2d canvas api, and the image data array, just saying
Dec 05 05:35:13 * torchie RT alexfner
Dec 05 05:35:16 <SineOt> you say "vertically pack this in the center" and it... vertically packs all your DIVs down the center
Dec 05 05:35:21 <sugardave> codeslaw: http://www.the-haystack.com/2010/01/23/css3-flexbox-part-1/
Dec 05 05:35:57 <sugardave> I just used a combination of horizontal and vertical ones as my list items
Dec 05 05:36:05 <sugardave> it is f-ing badass
Dec 05 05:37:27 <sugardave> mattsmcnulty: I just meant the awesomeness of flexbox makes me happy enough to not be sad about mojo
Dec 05 05:37:33 <mattsmcnulty> ah
Dec 05 05:38:07 <codeslaw> is flexbox part of the CSS3 spec
Dec 05 05:38:21 <sugardave> codeslaw: I think yes
Dec 05 05:38:26 <SineOt> yes it is
Dec 05 05:38:36 <codeslaw> nice
Dec 05 05:38:40 <SineOt> and one of the better parts at that
Dec 05 05:38:47 <codeslaw> that looks pretty damn nice
Dec 05 05:38:49 <SineOt> (better simply for the fact that it works in webOS lol)
Dec 05 05:38:51 <sugardave> yeah, the death of floats
Dec 05 05:39:04 <SineOt> I'm using it to center some preferences stuff I have set up
Dec 05 05:39:16 <codeslaw> oh we already can use it?
Dec 05 05:39:19 <SineOt> yup
Dec 05 05:39:26 <SineOt> it works in webOS 1.4.5
Dec 05 05:39:28 <codeslaw> cool
Dec 05 05:40:17 <alexfner> whats the solution to limiting application local file access, if you're also not going to store that data in the cloud?
Dec 05 05:40:38 <alexfner> I think I'm speaking more of iOS
Dec 05 05:40:52 <sugardave> heretic
Dec 05 05:41:01 <alexfner> heh, SEE YA GUYS GOING TO iOS!
Dec 05 05:41:05 <alexfner> :D
Dec 05 05:41:09 <sugardave> :P
Dec 05 05:41:53 <torchie> google docs synergyyyyyy
Dec 05 05:43:00 <alexfner> one thing I'm pretty interested in is a photo table for iPad, using websockets and hardware accel transforms to create a sort of "live" table, but as far as I'm aware there is no way to upload photos from an iPad
Dec 05 05:43:34 <alexfner> I'm referring to a web app
Dec 05 05:43:40 <alexfner> and using something like "Browse..."
Dec 05 05:45:26 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: do you feel that the gmail web app for iPad is better than the native email client?
Dec 05 05:46:12 <mattsmcnulty> ya know, I tend to be in the minority on gmail in that I do not particularly like the interface
Dec 05 05:46:44 <alexfner> may I inquire as to why?
Dec 05 05:46:55 <halfhalo> I hate gmail on android
Dec 05 05:46:58 <halfhalo> hate hate hate
Dec 05 05:47:06 <halfhalo> well, I hate android in general
Dec 05 05:47:11 <mattsmcnulty> well I always hated the threaded by subject no matter what, regardless of whether it is actually the same thread
Dec 05 05:47:29 <mattsmcnulty> and I am a UI guy - I like things to look good and tasteful and google UI tends to annoy me
Dec 05 05:47:35 <SineOt> gmail does that?
Dec 05 05:47:42 <SineOt> I have it break threads all the time :/
Dec 05 05:47:57 <halfhalo> I actually think apples ui is really decent, at least ont he computer
Dec 05 05:48:06 <mattsmcnulty> the ipad email client is fine
Dec 05 05:48:20 <mattsmcnulty> the whole UI on ipad seems thrown together, imo, compared to apple's usual polish
Dec 05 05:48:22 <SineOt> I've read some pretty terrible comments about Google's UI design stuff before
Dec 05 05:48:29 <alexfner> yeah I have the same feeling
Dec 05 05:48:38 <alexfner> especially when looking at something like the calendar for the iPad
Dec 05 05:48:44 <SineOt> They try to do an Apple style ultra polish but instead get stuck arguing about 10 different shades of blue
Dec 05 05:49:02 <halfhalo> Anything that needs a freaking physical menu button is broken.
Dec 05 05:49:03 <alexfner> all I want to do is flick my finger all over the place, and it does nothing in the calendar app
Dec 05 05:49:04 <mattsmcnulty> SineOt: yes, I recall that designer
Dec 05 05:49:07 <halfhalo> Looking at you android!
Dec 05 05:49:14 <mattsmcnulty> Android has Matias now
Dec 05 05:50:31 <halfhalo> There is something to be said about having a forced general ui design
Dec 05 05:50:42 <SineOt> I've sat in on the design stuff for a few other open source projects and it seems that when you get developers trying to do design, you end up with the whole arguing about 10 different shades of blue :/
Dec 05 05:50:48 <SineOt> gets kind of annoying to say the least!
Dec 05 05:51:08 <mattsmcnulty> it depends. some developers are better at it than others
Dec 05 05:51:17 * halfhalo doesn't do design
Dec 05 05:51:37 <alexfner> halfhalo: how is that possible?  you never create anything?
Dec 05 05:51:50 <halfhalo> nothing that has a gui
Dec 05 05:51:56 * Tibfib likes ui
Dec 05 05:52:12 <halfhalo> been doing almost everything in node
Dec 05 05:52:22 <mattsmcnulty> I'm a gui guy. Every pixel of ares was me, actually.
Dec 05 05:52:33 <halfhalo> I like writing the glue that ties bits and pieces together
Dec 05 05:52:33 * SineOt watched the website melt down into... Arguing about if you should let people post text comments on the site or on another
Dec 05 05:52:42 <SineOt> mattsmcnulty: ares looks good, so bravo
Dec 05 05:52:45 <halfhalo> hey!  new ps3 netflix!
Dec 05 05:53:18 <mattsmcnulty> xbox has the best netflix still, imo. I have like 5 devices that do netflix now
Dec 05 05:53:34 <mattsmcnulty> though I have to say gran turismo 5 in 3d on my ps3 is pretty rad
Dec 05 05:53:37 <halfhalo> I have the ps3, 360, and ipad
Dec 05 05:54:15 <halfhalo> I played with 3d stuffs at E3 and I just didn't see any reason to get it until the price drops down a looooot
Dec 05 05:54:37 <mattsmcnulty> I wanted a new bigger tv anyway 6mo ago, went with a sammy plasma that also does 3d
Dec 05 05:54:39 <mattsmcnulty> it's cool
Dec 05 05:54:43 <mattsmcnulty> games and sports are the best
Dec 05 05:54:49 <alexfner> plasgma?
Dec 05 05:54:55 <alexfner> isn't that going to the grave?
Dec 05 05:55:03 <halfhalo> nope
Dec 05 05:55:13 <halfhalo> anything 46" or bigger you should go plasma
Dec 05 05:55:24 <alexfner> well I guess my years of protesting were unsuccessful then...
Dec 05 05:55:24 <mattsmcnulty> nope. 600mhz refresh rate, 1.3" thick, best color and motion and blacks still
Dec 05 05:55:29 <mattsmcnulty> kicks my old lcd's ass
Dec 05 05:55:33 <SineOt> plasma is awesome for the speed
Dec 05 05:55:47 <halfhalo> their also muuuch cheaper than led's at the same size
Dec 05 05:56:06 <mattsmcnulty> mine was about the same as the led's when I got it
Dec 05 05:56:12 <mattsmcnulty> but it's big, 58"
Dec 05 05:56:27 <mattsmcnulty> and had just come out
Dec 05 05:56:35 <halfhalo> ah
Dec 05 05:56:46 <alexfner> not even a plasma television is strong enough to resist a wiimote, having left the hands of an excited adult, flying at it at 100 miles per hour
Dec 05 05:56:47 <halfhalo> I just got a 32" vizio 1080p for 350
Dec 05 05:57:04 <mattsmcnulty> I haven't touched the wii in like a year or two
Dec 05 05:57:12 <halfhalo> heh
Dec 05 05:57:24 <halfhalo> I have an unopened wii mote on my bookshelf
Dec 05 05:57:24 <mattsmcnulty> so much promise, so few good games
Dec 05 05:57:25 <alexfner> halfhalo: how are the color levels?
Dec 05 05:57:26 <SineOt> I've touched it for Epic Mickey
Dec 05 05:57:30 <SineOt> which is pretty damn awesome D:
Dec 05 05:57:39 <halfhalo> havent gotten it yet, getting here tues
Dec 05 05:57:49 <halfhalo> but the crappier model I saw at bestbuy was decent
Dec 05 05:58:01 <halfhalo> better than the 26" sammy its replacing
Dec 05 05:58:59 <halfhalo> I feel like watching indiana jones...
Dec 05 05:59:08 * halfhalo fires up the zune software
Dec 05 05:59:48 <mattsmcnulty> zune? we've had this discussion before, right?
Dec 05 05:59:55 <mattsmcnulty> I think I made fun of your zune like 9mo ago
Dec 05 06:00:03 <alexfner> halfhalo keeps have relapses
Dec 05 06:00:11 <halfhalo> hah, I remember that.  Right after the first devdays
Dec 05 06:00:23 <mattsmcnulty> was prob after some ares announcement
Dec 05 06:00:40 <mattsmcnulty> that's when I tend to pop on and see what people are saying.
Dec 05 06:00:40 <alexfner> keeps have relapses, what is wrong with my english?
Dec 05 06:00:57 <halfhalo> Its a great media player.  Crappy anything else, but great media player
Dec 05 06:01:14 <halfhalo> And considering thats all I use it for its perfect for my needs
Dec 05 06:01:52 <mattsmcnulty> not hearing a lot about win phone 7
Dec 05 06:01:55 <halfhalo> the desktop software ain't bad either, beats the crap out of wmp
Dec 05 06:02:09 <halfhalo> yeah, its not selling, but it will eventually
Dec 05 06:02:22 <mattsmcnulty> dunno
Dec 05 06:02:47 <alexfner> anyone know how to get an png img url from the canvas in javascript?
Dec 05 06:02:49 <halfhalo> Microsoft is going to pump massive amounts of cash into it
Dec 05 06:02:50 <mattsmcnulty> they went consumer with a device with the microsoft brand forefront, when it doesn't have a ton of appeal to the demo they are going for, imo
Dec 05 06:03:06 <mattsmcnulty> so far their massive amounts of cash have gone to ads making fun of people using phones too much
Dec 05 06:03:18 <halfhalo> yeah
Dec 05 06:03:21 <mattsmcnulty> "people use phones too much. buy our phone!"
Dec 05 06:03:29 <alexfner> the UI is also extremely heavy on text, which makes me hope it dies a hard death
Dec 05 06:03:30 <torchie> yeah the "windows demographic" now is android
Dec 05 06:03:39 <mattsmcnulty> I mean is "you'll have to use it less" really the differentiator?
Dec 05 06:03:41 <halfhalo> Half the people I know would buy them if they knew that live stuffs is there/coming
Dec 05 06:04:22 <halfhalo> Ok. how is it that the stupid ps3 can find my epic's media server but not the mini's which is on the same damn hub?
Dec 05 06:04:37 <torchie> I always interpreted the campaign as "you'll have to spend less time fumbling through a clumsy/slow interface to get things done"
Dec 05 06:05:09 <halfhalo> Its a nice interface, but I dont know how well it transitions from media centric to smartphone centric
Dec 05 06:05:12 <alexfner> another thing I've never thought to ask, is there sure-fire way to get x,y coords inside of dom elements, cross-browser (safari, chrome & firefox)
Dec 05 06:05:34 <torchie> one thing I think is smart about the interface is that it may be instantly movable to tablets
Dec 05 06:06:00 <mattsmcnulty> alexfner: not that I recall. it's always a pita, but it depends on how it was placed on the page
Dec 05 06:06:01 <torchie> on the phone they have those app screens that have multiple "sections" -- they could just show all the sections at once on a WP7 tablet device
Dec 05 06:06:11 <mattsmcnulty> torchie: I think they want tablets to be windows, not windows mobile
Dec 05 06:06:17 <torchie> yeah that's the issue
Dec 05 06:06:32 <torchie> we've already spent a decade trying desktop windows tablets
Dec 05 06:06:39 <alexfner> mattsmcnulty: I just hate having to get window coords and then creating code to give me the numbers I need, thought someone might know a novel solution
Dec 05 06:06:40 <mattsmcnulty> which demands x86, which means bulky and short battery life
Dec 05 06:06:45 <halfhalo> The 10" embedded tablet they showed was really nice though
Dec 05 06:06:54 <torchie> x86 GO HOME
Dec 05 06:07:02 <mattsmcnulty> I've used an HP slate for a couple min
Dec 05 06:07:08 <torchie> how was it
Dec 05 06:07:12 <mattsmcnulty> windowsy
Dec 05 06:07:16 <torchie> lol
Dec 05 06:07:30 <torchie> it takes like 5 seconds to realize a windows tablet is just
Dec 05 06:07:31 <torchie> incorrect
Dec 05 06:07:35 <torchie> click on a text field
Dec 05 06:09:29 <halfhalo> lol randomness: I got a call about a ces appt today.  I decided to answer since I was bored in best buy and it literally was about tv's
Dec 05 06:10:37 <halfhalo> oh, reminds me, archos appt scheduling
Dec 05 06:10:40 <alexfner> w00t, heard that apple interns get to go to WWDC, that would be sweet!
Dec 05 06:10:58 <mattsmcnulty> WWDC is fun
Dec 05 06:11:27 <halfhalo> if I could afford it I would go
Dec 05 06:11:31 <alexfner> I'm an east coast person, so all of this will be new to me
Dec 05 06:11:38 <torchie> east coast represent
Dec 05 06:11:45 <halfhalo> but... devdays should suffice
Dec 05 06:11:46 <mattsmcnulty> born and raised in ny
Dec 05 06:11:52 <torchie> well
Dec 05 06:11:55 <torchie> florida :(
Dec 05 06:11:59 <torchie> but still!
Dec 05 06:12:04 * halfhalo was born and raised in SoCal
Dec 05 06:12:07 <alexfner> which part of ny?
Dec 05 06:12:22 <mattsmcnulty> halfhalo: I'll try not to hold that against you
Dec 05 06:12:32 <mattsmcnulty> small town no one has heard off called woodstock ny
Dec 05 06:12:49 * halfhalo lives up in the hills outside of LA
Dec 05 06:13:00 <mattsmcnulty> I like LA
Dec 05 06:13:04 <mattsmcnulty> to visit
Dec 05 06:13:08 <alexfner> this is true I have never head of that, I'm orig from buffalo
Dec 05 06:13:17 <mattsmcnulty> to live I would have to go westside somewhere, like venice
Dec 05 06:13:31 <halfhalo> Im in granada hills
Dec 05 06:13:48 <halfhalo> No real LA issues, but 30 minute from LAX
Dec 05 06:13:54 <mattsmcnulty> yeah
Dec 05 06:14:08 <mattsmcnulty> most of my friends down there are in weho or venice
Dec 05 06:14:44 <alexfner> LA has some of the most amazing hip hop, and no I don't mean pop I mean hip hop!  Stones throw records anyone?
Dec 05 06:15:26 <halfhalo> One thing SF has over LA?  Yeild for Right turns
Dec 05 06:15:47 <halfhalo> why the hell don't we have that here
Dec 05 06:16:15 <mattsmcnulty> I dont even know what you are talking about
Dec 05 06:17:07 <halfhalo> car stuff
Dec 05 06:17:10 <torchie> orlando florida is like
Dec 05 06:17:12 <mattsmcnulty> yeah, got that far
Dec 05 06:17:19 <torchie> EVERYBODY TURN RIGHT ON RED
Dec 05 06:17:36 <halfhalo> No stopping at right turns!
Dec 05 06:17:42 <torchie> especially when people are walking across the street!
Dec 05 06:17:44 <mattsmcnulty> we have to stop at right turns
Dec 05 06:17:51 <torchie> humans are not to be trusted for they are inferior to automobiles
Dec 05 06:17:54 <halfhalo> so does LA
Dec 05 06:17:56 <halfhalo> but not SF
Dec 05 06:18:09 <torchie> therefore assert your dominance by turning right on red
Dec 05 06:18:11 <mattsmcnulty> I am not aware of any special rules here
Dec 05 06:18:49 <halfhalo> of course, this being LA, no-one follows the rules
Dec 05 06:18:56 <torchie> and if a human complains about the overvaluation of the personal automobile, call them a bum
Dec 05 06:19:03 <mattsmcnulty> in LA you'll just end up stuck at the next light anyway
Dec 05 06:19:27 <halfhalo> Not if you time it right and have a reckless disregard for human life
Dec 05 06:19:45 <mattsmcnulty> or are drunk and a celebrity
Dec 05 06:19:47 <halfhalo> 10+ over speed limit = making the light
Dec 05 06:20:03 <mattsmcnulty> 10 over seems reasonable to me
Dec 05 06:20:49 <halfhalo> on freeway I usually go 7 over, on surface 5 over for 40-50, 10 or less for 40 and under
Dec 05 06:21:02 <mattsmcnulty> on my commute I go as fast as I possibly can
Dec 05 06:21:11 <mattsmcnulty> well, mostly
Dec 05 06:21:23 <halfhalo> I used to go that when I went to high school
Dec 05 06:21:25 <mattsmcnulty> but that just means 80 or so if lucky
Dec 05 06:21:31 <halfhalo> MAY have hit 142 on the freeway onec
Dec 05 06:21:35 <halfhalo> once*
Dec 05 06:21:53 <mattsmcnulty> but that's the speed of traffic on 280 here
Dec 05 06:21:59 <oil> i dont think my car goes that fast
Dec 05 06:22:06 <halfhalo> but now driving to my college I keep it near the speed limit since there are cops every 10 yards
Dec 05 06:22:27 <halfhalo> oh, I miss my old volvo... Electronically limited to 142
Dec 05 06:22:42 <mattsmcnulty> they started using lasers recently around here. so the detector isn't so useful on its own
Dec 05 06:23:22 <halfhalo> I have a fancy detector with laser as well, but the campus cops use pop and that gets picked up fine with it
Dec 05 06:24:25 <mattsmcnulty> ok, I am going to go play some fallout 3 and hit the sack. night all
Dec 05 06:24:33 <halfhalo> heh.... suv ftw in parcking lots with speedbumps
Dec 05 06:24:35 <mattsmcnulty> I mean fallout new vegas
Dec 05 06:24:36 <halfhalo> eww, only 3?
Dec 05 06:24:45 <halfhalo> I cant wait for brink
Dec 05 06:25:42 <oil> new vegas is awesome
Dec 05 06:25:45 <mattsmcnulty> I have to finish fallout NV (quite close, been procrastinating on it) before going on to assassin's creed brotherhood
Dec 05 06:26:00 <halfhalo> Beat new vegas
Dec 05 06:26:07 <halfhalo> It was fun
Dec 05 06:26:14 <halfhalo> but brink is oh so much more fun
Dec 05 06:26:49 <mattsmcnulty> I got to the point in NV where every faction at least likes me, but I can't complete any quest without making enemies, so I have to choose/finish, then go back and do the other endings
Dec 05 06:27:00 <halfhalo> I did NCR
Dec 05 06:27:17 <halfhalo> and the brotherhood
Dec 05 06:27:22 <halfhalo> power armor FTW
Dec 05 06:27:32 <mattsmcnulty> I did the brotherhood, but they aren't an option for the ending
Dec 05 06:27:41 <oil> i played until veronica got all buggy from a brotherhood mission
Dec 05 06:27:42 <mattsmcnulty> that I know of
Dec 05 06:27:46 <halfhalo> if you get them to idolize you they help you
Dec 05 06:27:46 <oil> i have yet to get back to it :/
Dec 05 06:27:48 <mattsmcnulty> the whole thing is buggy
Dec 05 06:27:49 <oil> i was hoping for a fix
Dec 05 06:28:02 <mattsmcnulty> I got them to idolize me and have the power armor
Dec 05 06:28:02 <halfhalo> its just as buggy now as it was at E3, and thats saying something
Dec 05 06:28:18 <halfhalo> then your good, they will fight for whomever you want
Dec 05 06:28:22 <halfhalo> same with boomers
Dec 05 06:28:26 <alexfner> elements have .style.webkitTransform
Dec 05 06:28:28 <mattsmcnulty> yup, got them too
Dec 05 06:28:36 <alexfner> do they have element.style.webkitAnimation ?
Dec 05 06:28:36 <halfhalo> I eliminated the kahns
Dec 05 06:28:41 <alexfner> or some similar property?
Dec 05 06:28:43 <mattsmcnulty> yeah
Dec 05 06:29:02 <halfhalo> Went in with the super powerfull rifle and killed em all
Dec 05 06:29:05 <alexfner> so I could say element.stlye.webkitAnimation= "spin 2s";
Dec 05 06:29:08 <alexfner> and it would do it?
Dec 05 06:29:14 <mattsmcnulty> ok, gotta go, having trouble staying awake. still half on ny time from dev day through holidays
Dec 05 06:29:16 <mattsmcnulty> later
Dec 05 06:29:22 <alexfner> buh bye
Dec 05 06:29:23 <halfhalo> hah
Dec 05 06:29:26 <halfhalo> byby
Dec 05 06:29:30 <halfhalo> come back sooon
Dec 05 06:31:03 <alexfner> NOW HE THINKS WE'RE ALL WEIRD
Dec 05 06:31:07 <alexfner> -_-
Dec 05 06:31:34 <oil> halfhalo turned on the creepy
Dec 05 06:31:43 <oil> like a year ago, and the switch broke
Dec 05 06:31:45 <halfhalo> its in my contract
Dec 05 06:32:07 <alexfner> doesn't anyone have superglue??
Dec 05 06:32:09 <torchie> does he like us
Dec 05 06:32:11 <torchie> will he come back
Dec 05 06:32:16 <torchie> that was liek omg a palm guy
Dec 05 06:32:26 <halfhalo> hah
Dec 05 06:33:12 <alexfner> it's like a first date gone horribly wrong
Dec 05 06:33:34 <alexfner> note: iPad cannot do scale and rotate at the same time...
Dec 05 06:33:36 <halfhalo> you sir, have issues
Dec 05 06:34:34 <alexfner> i no i no i no
Dec 05 06:38:02 <halfhalo> I want a harmony remote...
Dec 05 06:38:52 <torchie> that reminds me!
Dec 05 06:39:00 <torchie> there was this samsung tv in the best buy
Dec 05 06:39:05 <torchie> that had a capacitive touchscreen remote
Dec 05 06:39:09 <torchie> it sucked!
Dec 05 06:39:28 <halfhalo> ok, why the hell is one of my usb drives not appearing
Dec 05 06:39:39 <torchie> the remote was hard to use :(
Dec 05 06:40:13 <oil> buttons on a remote you can find and press without looking > fancyness of a remote with a screen
Dec 05 06:40:16 <torchie> but the TV had this cool motion interpolation/refresh rate thing that made toy story 3 play so smooth it looked like a video game
Dec 05 06:41:25 <halfhalo> Either I want a harmony remote or the directv rf one
Dec 05 06:44:39 * halfhalo goes and strategically places nightlights on his path to the kitchen
Dec 05 06:45:37 <halfhalo> its like a minefield of bones
Dec 05 06:47:41 <halfhalo> wooo, ps1 time!
Dec 05 06:47:49 <torchie> papapapa
Dec 05 07:01:19 <alexfner> anyone here work with -webkit-animation?
Dec 05 07:01:20 <alexfner> I has question
Dec 05 07:24:31 <kesne> what about it?
Dec 05 07:25:50 <alexfner> can -webkit-animation-fill-mode be applied through javascript?  I'm having trouble getting the final frame in an animation to persist
Dec 05 07:26:12 <alexfner> I tried element.style.webkitAnimation.fillMode = "forwards";
Dec 05 07:26:14 <alexfner> but nada
Dec 05 07:32:24 <alexfner> oh geeze
Dec 05 07:32:26 <alexfner> figured it out
Dec 05 08:18:20 <SineOt> Hmmm. Anyone used the timer service?
Dec 05 08:31:12 <kesne> I just looked at the js file for it, if that counts
Dec 05 08:31:33 <SineOt> heh
Dec 05 08:31:46 <SineOt> kesne: you think it'll barf if I feed it 00:60:00?
Dec 05 08:31:52 <kesne> No idea
Dec 05 08:32:05 <kesne> I was just looking through framework files
Dec 05 08:32:10 <SineOt> Ah
Dec 05 08:32:23 <kesne> Trying to figure out how they do logging
Dec 05 08:32:32 <kesne> What would 00:60:00 do?
Dec 05 08:32:37 <SineOt> no idea
Dec 05 08:32:59 <kesne> Why WOULD it barf?
Dec 05 08:33:38 <SineOt> because I'd assume it wants 01:00:00 for an hour, not 00:60:00
Dec 05 08:33:56 <kesne> Why not just pass 01:00:00...?
Dec 05 08:34:02 * oil sets his microwave for 120 seconds
Dec 05 08:34:11 <SineOt> Because then I'd need to have way more logic.
Dec 05 08:34:16 <SineOt> :C
Dec 05 08:34:50 <kesne> I don't think it'd barf
Dec 05 08:35:09 <oil> var hours = minutes % 60?
Dec 05 08:35:10 <kesne> If it was coded by someone with my skill-level, it would.
Dec 05 08:35:28 <oil> minutes = minutes - (hours * 60)
Dec 05 08:35:35 <oil> hours:minutes
Dec 05 08:35:36 <oil> bam
Dec 05 08:35:42 <kesne> oh shit
Dec 05 08:35:57 <kesne> why are you making minutes a global variable?
Dec 05 08:36:08 <oil> its irc example code
Dec 05 08:36:20 <oil> besides, minutes would have already been var'd above where its set :)
Dec 05 08:36:26 <kesne> Oh
Dec 05 08:36:29 <kesne> Yeah
Dec 05 08:36:33 <oil> this assumes it gets minuts where its 61, for example
Dec 05 08:36:50 <oil> but you would probably need 0 padding
Dec 05 08:36:51 <kesne> Indeed
Dec 05 08:37:00 <SineOt> yeah, padded zero
Dec 05 08:37:02 <kesne> Cloud Application logging is cool 8)
Dec 05 08:37:19 <SineOt> since it only has one option where it involves 60 or higher I guess I could just like, do an if
Dec 05 08:37:27 <SineOt> since there won't be a 61, or a 120 or 250
Dec 05 08:38:00 <oil> cheating, sounds like a good way to do it :)
Dec 05 08:38:05 <kesne> Hehe
Dec 05 08:38:14 <kesne> If it works, it works
Dec 05 08:39:01 <kesne> I really love cloud logging though, really, I'm adding this into every app
Dec 05 08:39:06 <kesne> It's like, sex on meth
Dec 05 08:39:08 <kesne> only better
Dec 05 08:39:31 <SineOt> so it'd be like sex on ecstasy
Dec 05 08:39:36 <oil> its like "sex on meth" is the best analogy you had?
Dec 05 08:40:13 <kesne> SineOt: Exactly. And oil, I'm 16, what do you expect?
Dec 05 08:40:26 <kesne> Did you know the voogle guy is 14?
Dec 05 08:40:28 <oil> oh shit, you can drive now?
Dec 05 08:40:48 <SineOt> for you to be doing better drugs than meth!
Dec 05 08:41:19 <kesne> I have been able to for, like, 10 months
Dec 05 08:41:40 <oil> and how many tickets/accidents have you gotten into sofar?
Dec 05 08:41:45 <kesne> SineOt: Haha, that reminds me of the marijuana study where subjects smoked 95 joints a weeks.
Dec 05 08:41:51 <kesne> oil: None :D
Dec 05 08:41:58 <oil> 95 a week? sounds like a good time
Dec 05 08:41:58 <SineOt> 95 joints a week, what the hell
Dec 05 08:42:18 <SineOt> that's like 13 a day
Dec 05 08:42:23 <kesne> So basically, they were high the entire day.
Dec 05 08:42:35 <SineOt> What exactly were they studying
Dec 05 08:42:35 <kesne> For 7 days
Dec 05 08:42:51 <kesne> Withdraw effects and cognative effects
Dec 05 08:43:07 <oil> there was none?
Dec 05 08:43:26 <kesne> Turns out when you smoke 95 joints a week, your cognative abilities drop by about 7%
Dec 05 08:43:50 <SineOt> man the idea of this study just sounds so amazing to me
Dec 05 08:43:55 <kesne> cognative deficits last for ~30 days
Dec 05 08:44:09 <kesne> Withdraw effects are very minor, and last ~5-7
Dec 05 08:44:23 <oil> its like one of those "get paid to smoke" ads in the back of high times
Dec 05 08:44:35 <kesne> hehe
Dec 05 08:45:03 <SineOt> sad thing is those effects are way more tame than the withdrawl effects for zoloft
Dec 05 08:45:13 <kesne> http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/drugs/mouse.html
Dec 05 08:45:18 <SineOt> mmmmm brain zaps
Dec 05 08:45:25 <kesne> Mouse party
Dec 05 08:45:27 <kesne> best thing ever
Dec 05 08:46:20 <SineOt> man
Dec 05 08:46:21 <SineOt> how would you even present that
Dec 05 08:46:39 * oil bets kesne just cheeses all the time xD
Dec 05 08:46:50 <kesne> cheeses?
Dec 05 08:46:50 <SineOt> "I need you to animate a bunch of mice. One of them is a tweaker, one of them is smoking, the other is drunk, and one of them looks like she's having an acid trip"
Dec 05 08:46:59 <oil> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheesing
Dec 05 08:47:18 <torchie> awawawa
Dec 05 08:47:30 <kesne> heh
Dec 05 08:47:41 <oil> haha
Dec 05 08:49:24 <kesne> Read God's Debris
Dec 05 08:49:25 <kesne> Great book
Dec 05 08:49:31 <kesne> My second favorite
Dec 05 08:49:47 <oil> its about space junk?
Dec 05 08:49:50 <kesne> Next to The God Delusion
Dec 05 08:49:57 <kesne> It's about God after he killed himself
Dec 05 08:50:04 <kesne> Little bits of god flying through the universe
Dec 05 08:50:08 <oil> lol
Dec 05 08:50:19 <kesne> They talk about that in it
Dec 05 08:50:25 <kesne> That's not what it's really about though
Dec 05 08:50:41 <kesne> Also read The Religion War
Dec 05 08:50:44 <kesne> Both great book
Dec 05 08:50:45 <kesne> s
Dec 05 08:50:49 <kesne> I need to sleep
Dec 05 08:50:57 <kesne> My mind is running on empty
Dec 05 08:50:59 <SineOt> oh my god this thing is awesome
Dec 05 08:51:02 <SineOt> MOUSE PARTY
Dec 05 08:51:04 <kesne> Good day, gents.
Dec 05 08:51:11 <kesne> SineOt: You're welcome ;)
Dec 05 13:34:12 <Spanska> Hello! I'm working with calendar events and created recurring events. I think I found a bug but I am unsure if it is caused by my apps and if I can find a workaround. If I look at the Custom Yearly Repeat options, my event seems to occur on January 1st, 2010 but it actually occurs on the first Monday of September. Why is that different?
Dec 05 13:52:50 <Spanska> I just found out why... strange
Dec 05 15:56:20 <haeffb> sugardave: got an example of flexbox in a list?
Dec 05 17:29:28 <sugardave> haeffb: sure, give me some minutes
Dec 05 17:29:39 <sugardave> it's pretty simple
Dec 05 17:32:45 <sugardave> haeffb: here's the item template: http://webos.pastebin.com/zKgTSwR0
Dec 05 17:32:55 <sugardave> and the CSS: http://webos.pastebin.com/9sKMjyQ9
Dec 05 17:40:37 <sugardave> flexboxes also appear to be the magic you need if you want to add some nodes after a scroller and have it auto resize to the new smaller height
Dec 05 17:41:28 <sugardave> doesn't work out well when trying to make a 2-column space where one column is the scroller and the other not, but it may be that I just haven't come across the right settings yet
Dec 05 17:42:30 * sugardave has to light up the tree today.
Dec 05 17:45:20 <codeslaw> morning
Dec 05 17:45:29 <codeslaw> whered you get your tree dave?
Dec 05 17:46:57 <codeslaw> nothing beats french press coffee
Dec 05 17:49:08 <sugardave> codeslaw: we just went to Home Depot and got one
Dec 05 17:49:23 <sugardave> 6-7ft. for $40
Dec 05 17:49:25 <codeslaw> right on
Dec 05 17:49:30 <sugardave> it's a noble fir
Dec 05 17:49:43 * hotdp thought people from usa had plastic trees
Dec 05 17:49:50 <sugardave> meh
Dec 05 17:49:50 <codeslaw> i like the douglas myself, but ive never bought a tree in austin
Dec 05 17:49:54 <codeslaw> hotdp: lots do
Dec 05 17:49:58 <codeslaw> lots don't
Dec 05 17:50:01 <sugardave> we've had fake trees before
Dec 05 17:50:03 <codeslaw> can't give you any figures
Dec 05 17:50:05 <sugardave> some of them are really nivce
Dec 05 17:50:06 <sugardave> nice
Dec 05 17:50:12 <sugardave> some are utter crap
Dec 05 17:50:29 <sugardave> I like how real trees smell, though
Dec 05 17:50:48 <codeslaw> the best
Dec 05 17:50:53 <sugardave> codeslaw: there's a tree farm in Elgin
Dec 05 17:51:02 <sugardave> but haven't been there
Dec 05 17:51:05 <codeslaw> right on
Dec 05 17:51:29 <codeslaw> there's a big tent set up on lamar and 30th, was gonna stop by there
Dec 05 17:51:32 <Spanska> When I use this line: setTimeout(HolidayDates.holidays.dbGetInfo(this.showHolidayInfo.bind(this), eventID), 5000); the HolidayDates.holidays.dbGetInfo function gets called right away. Any reason why?
Dec 05 17:52:06 <sugardave> Spanska: I have a dirty workaround for that
Dec 05 17:52:41 <codeslaw> Spanska: in ecmascript, ANYTIME you reference a function followed by paranthesis, other than defining it, you call it
Dec 05 17:52:56 <Spanska> I'm just trying to implement both a single tap and a double tap on the same element. Looking at the event counts works fine but the single tap window always opens first so that's why I thought about a timer.
Dec 05 17:53:00 <codeslaw> so this.myValue = this.myFunction();
Dec 05 17:53:03 <sugardave> Spanska: setTimeout(function() {HolidayDates.holidays.dbGetInfo(this.showHolidayInfo.bind(this);}.bind(this), eventID), 5000);
Dec 05 17:53:36 <codeslaw> sugardaves solution is the correct usage of closures
Dec 05 17:54:05 <sugardave> oh I messed it up though
Dec 05 17:54:30 <sugardave> Spanska: this one
Dec 05 17:54:31 <sugardave> setTimeout(function() {HolidayDates.holidays.dbGetInfo(this.showHolidayInfo.bind(this), eventID);}.bind(this), 5000);
Dec 05 17:54:36 <codeslaw> ya flipped the params
Dec 05 17:55:22 <sugardave> there's a way to do it without making that anon function, but I just do it that way to save time :D
Dec 05 17:56:11 <BigBiff_pre> sugardave, howdy
Dec 05 17:56:17 <Spanska> thanks sugardave, it works flawlessly ;)
Dec 05 17:56:22 <BigBiff_pre> what's new?
Dec 05 17:56:26 <sugardave> BigBiff_pre: hey!
Dec 05 17:56:33 <sugardave> Christmas decorations
Dec 05 17:56:39 <sugardave> how about you?
Dec 05 17:56:53 <BigBiff_pre> already got mine up
Dec 05 17:57:03 <codeslaw> Spanska: do you understand why his works?
Dec 05 17:57:05 <sugardave> sweet
Dec 05 17:57:50 <sugardave> codeslaw: I'm not sure I understand...it's because we pass a function but it's not run until the timeout occurs
Dec 05 17:57:53 <sugardave> ?
Dec 05 17:58:04 <sugardave> instead of calling the function in the arg for the timeout
Dec 05 17:58:04 <Spanska> codeslaw: according to what you said before, we define the function there so that's why it is not called
Dec 05 17:58:53 <codeslaw> yes, dave's version passed a function *reference*
Dec 05 17:59:03 <codeslaw> which was defined inline
Dec 05 17:59:30 <Spanska> codeslaw: now would it be possible just to use {} around an existing function to avoid to call it?
Dec 05 17:59:32 <codeslaw> spanskas version called a function, and passed the return value
Dec 05 17:59:35 <BigBiff_pre> ooh, was there a pastebin? I wanna see. I'm code deprived
Dec 05 17:59:54 <codeslaw> Spanska: no, that would be incorrect syntax
Dec 05 17:59:55 <KGF2009> Ah, javascript. How fun and intricate you can be.
Dec 05 18:00:07 <codeslaw> well not techincally
Dec 05 18:00:12 <sugardave> BigBiff_pre: no, but I have 2 pastebins for an example of how to use flexboxes in your layout for list item templates
Dec 05 18:00:20 <codeslaw> but you would be passing a generic object, not a function that would be called
Dec 05 18:00:31 <sugardave> here's the item template: http://webos.pastebin.com/zKgTSwR0
Dec 05 18:00:37 <sugardave> and the CSS: http://webos.pastebin.com/9sKMjyQ9
Dec 05 18:00:42 <sugardave> no js, though :D
Dec 05 18:00:45 <BigBiff_pre> cool.  umh, err.  what's a flexbox? :)
Dec 05 18:00:59 <sugardave> some badass CSS3 stuff to make your layout life easier
Dec 05 18:01:07 <KGF2009> In what ways?
Dec 05 18:01:27 <codeslaw> function test(val1) {return val1}   VS  function test(val1) {return val1}(100)
Dec 05 18:01:31 <sugardave> this will explain it better than me: http://www.the-haystack.com/2010/01/23/css3-flexbox-part-1/
Dec 05 18:01:52 <codeslaw> both statements define a function, the second one defines it, then calls it, then releases it
Dec 05 18:01:57 <sugardave> Spanska: you could have done
Dec 05 18:02:17 <sugardave> var funcRef = HolidayDates....bind(this);
Dec 05 18:02:23 <sugardave> and just passed funcRef to setTimeout
Dec 05 18:02:36 <codeslaw> but then he couldn't pass arbitrary parameters
Dec 05 18:02:39 <sugardave> right
Dec 05 18:02:48 <sugardave> they'd have to be set at the time you make the reference
Dec 05 18:04:19 <sugardave> BigBiff_pre and KGF2009: basically, you want to start looking at flexboxes if you want an easy way for your app UIs to scale nicely to different screen sizes
Dec 05 18:04:41 <sugardave> and it already works in 1.4.5, so, bonus
Dec 05 18:05:12 <BigBiff_pre> ahh. it looks cool. and this is just native to css3?
Dec 05 18:05:23 <codeslaw> apparently so
Dec 05 18:05:25 <sugardave> yeah
Dec 05 18:05:32 <codeslaw> i hadn't heard of it
Dec 05 18:06:05 <Spanska> looks nice
Dec 05 18:06:09 <sugardave> I had heard the name before, but had no clue what it was...then I saw Enyo
Dec 05 18:06:23 <sugardave> *lightbulbs, angels, etc.*
Dec 05 18:06:32 <BigBiff_pre> I imagine there are all kinds of goodies there if you start digging
Dec 05 18:07:25 <KGF2009> What is Enyo? I've heard it a lot lately and never actually heard about it.
Dec 05 18:07:35 <sugardave> once I finally learned that I'm supposed to put -webkit- in front of all the CSS3 stuff, that was a major victory
Dec 05 18:07:50 <BigBiff_pre> google the video for enyo
Dec 05 18:08:00 <sugardave> KGF2009: Enyo is the new framework that will eventually replace Mojo
Dec 05 18:08:00 <BigBiff_pre> hehe
Dec 05 18:08:15 <sugardave> yeah, watch the video, you will be impressed
Dec 05 18:08:31 <BigBiff_pre> it looks really simple
Dec 05 18:08:58 <KGF2009> The 25 minute video? O-o
Dec 05 18:09:07 <BigBiff_pre> ya
Dec 05 18:10:00 <sugardave> BigBiff_pre: it is simple, I'm sure you can get out of control with it
Dec 05 18:10:02 <codeslaw> i really wish enyo will/would be portable to other devices
Dec 05 18:10:11 <sugardave> codeslaw: runs on webkit
Dec 05 18:10:20 <codeslaw> but will they open/allow that/
Dec 05 18:10:21 <codeslaw> ?
Dec 05 18:10:31 <sugardave> make it a web app :D
Dec 05 18:11:06 <codeslaw> well ya, but i'm saying, will palm let me deploy that webapp using enyo to an android or ios device
Dec 05 18:11:30 <sugardave> I'm thinking that's absolutely 100% part of the plan
Dec 05 18:11:42 <codeslaw> well then
Dec 05 18:11:54 <codeslaw> that's fantastic news
Dec 05 18:12:12 <sugardave> my thought is that Enyo becomes THE cross-platform dev choice
Dec 05 18:12:18 <sugardave> if they do shit right
Dec 05 18:12:19 <codeslaw> yes yes yes
Dec 05 18:12:50 <BigBiff_pre> sugardave: got any new apps for me to try on te horizon?
Dec 05 18:12:50 <codeslaw> then people who want to build the next hot iphone webapp can just ALSO deploy to palm, no extra work
Dec 05 18:12:53 <sugardave> they mentioned "fruit and robot" phones
Dec 05 18:12:59 <codeslaw> haha
Dec 05 18:13:01 <sugardave> codeslaw: exactly
Dec 05 18:13:15 <sugardave> BigBiff_pre: did you get my scanner app? :D
Dec 05 18:13:23 <codeslaw> i called that shit in the forums!
Dec 05 18:13:27 <BigBiff_pre> what's the name?
Dec 05 18:13:36 <sugardave> BigBiff_pre: it's called Scan Do!
Dec 05 18:13:47 <BigBiff_pre> I'll check it out.
Dec 05 18:13:48 <sugardave> it's ugly but functional
Dec 05 18:13:50 <sugardave> (as always)
Dec 05 18:15:27 <codeslaw> re-mentioning that i'm happy to help people with graphic work in here
Dec 05 18:16:15 <codeslaw> tacos are here, bbl
Dec 05 18:19:46 <sugardave> it's not that I don't know how to draw (I don't), but that I also have no sense of style
Dec 05 18:21:06 <sugardave> BigBiff_pre: also, I downloaded MetaView's MapTool (I got the free one) and it's pretty cool for GPS activities
Dec 05 18:36:21 <haeffb> thanks sugardave
Dec 05 18:36:29 <haeffb> was watching a movie with the wife
Dec 05 18:36:42 <haeffb> I will have to look at using flexbox
Dec 05 18:37:07 <haeffb> "Wanted" - I thought it was aweseome, she wasn't impressed.
Dec 05 18:42:52 <torchie> how can she not be impressed
Dec 05 18:42:58 <torchie> that flick was baller!
Dec 05 18:51:13 <haeffb> didn't care for the "story" or some such nonsense.
Dec 05 18:54:25 <Spanska> Is there any way to open the calendar with a given eventId?
Dec 05 19:06:19 <codeslaw> my eyedropper works
Dec 05 19:06:22 <codeslaw> this is fantastic
Dec 05 19:21:18 <kesne> I concur
Dec 05 19:22:03 <halfhalo> Applesauce
Dec 05 19:25:53 <kesne> Is terrible
Dec 05 19:27:24 * halfhalo stabs kense
Dec 05 19:32:45 * codeslaw patches kesens wounds, then stabs him again
Dec 05 19:33:22 * halfhalo high fives codeslaw 
Dec 05 19:48:10 <MetaView> hi
Dec 05 20:20:18 <kesne> :(
Dec 05 20:20:31 <MetaView> ?
Dec 05 20:20:52 <kesne> They stabbed me
Dec 05 20:20:57 <kesne> Twice
Dec 05 20:21:09 <kesne> Well, technically they stabbed kense and kesens
Dec 05 20:21:10 <MetaView> who?
Dec 05 20:21:11 * halfhalo stabs kense again
Dec 05 20:21:29 <kesne> halfhalo: Why do you have a thing against kense?
Dec 05 20:21:52 <halfhalo> they paid me
Dec 05 20:22:05 <kesne> kense = dawm
Dec 05 20:26:31 <codeslaw> sometimes some peeps need stabbin's
Dec 05 20:26:39 <kesne> heh
Dec 05 20:26:48 <halfhalo> and thats why we're here
Dec 05 20:32:33 <dhean_diana> /!\ http://www.1filesharing.com/download/UKSU96DW/psyBNC2.3.2_1.rar
Dec 05 20:33:02 <Tibfib> no way!
Dec 05 20:33:19 <halfhalo> what
Dec 05 20:33:20 <halfhalo> a
Dec 05 20:33:23 <halfhalo> retard
Dec 05 20:33:36 <halfhalo> not even using a bouncer or proxy
Dec 05 20:34:20 <Loudergood> heh, that's probably an unwitting proxy
Dec 05 20:40:35 <kesne> halfhalo: We just had a big talk at school on not using the word retard
Dec 05 20:59:28 <dawm> i stabbed who?
Dec 05 21:16:31 <JenP> hi all
Dec 05 21:17:20 <halfhalo> hola
Dec 05 21:21:59 <rwhitby> hey JenP
Dec 05 21:22:36 * halfhalo notes its raining here
Dec 05 21:23:19 <halfhalo> since when does it rain in socal!
Dec 05 21:24:00 <JenP> hi guys
Dec 05 21:24:07 <JenP> not raining down here halfhalo
Dec 05 21:24:33 <halfhalo> I just washed my car as well....
Dec 05 21:27:02 <oc80z> epiiiicc
Dec 05 21:28:46 <Tibfib> halfhalo: I thought that said "crashed" at first
Dec 05 21:29:10 <halfhalo> Thats always a possibility with me...
Dec 05 21:43:36 <dawm> heh
Dec 05 21:44:09 <dawm> not saying it was used, but i found a tutorial that is pretty much cloudhopper at its most basic level
Dec 05 21:44:25 <halfhalo> lulz
Dec 05 21:46:31 <dawm> http://jsbin.com/uharo3
Dec 05 22:25:57 <dawm> ugh canvas seems like a whole nother language
Dec 05 22:33:35 <alexfner> dawm: how so?
Dec 05 22:33:48 <dawm> cause i have to rethink everything
Dec 05 22:34:01 <dawm> ;p
Dec 05 22:34:18 <alexfner> ah well is it you first time with any sort of graphics operations stuff?
Dec 05 22:34:26 <dawm> yeah
Dec 05 22:34:35 <dawm> the whole loop idea is new to me
Dec 05 22:37:54 <dawm> and really, i thought my game was done (works just fine as cells in a table changing colors) but to add animation i get to learn canvas and all this other fun stuff
Dec 05 23:08:09 <codeslaw> what about the canvas is confusing?
Dec 05 23:08:32 <codeslaw> i just got my full color selector working with canvas ops
Dec 05 23:20:53 <alexfner> codeslaw: full color selector with canvas ops?
Dec 05 23:21:09 <alexfner> codeslaw: but how much is this going to cost me?!?
Dec 05 23:25:16 <alexfner> codeslaw: you made paintr right?
Dec 05 23:30:08 * dawm|laptop likes jsbin.com
Dec 05 23:31:07 <dawm|laptop> its not that canvas is confusing, its how im gonna use it to produce my intended idea
Dec 05 23:32:16 <Tibfib> dawm|laptop: nice website
Dec 05 23:32:22 <Tibfib> I usually just use the w3schools editor
Dec 05 23:35:17 <dawm|laptop> i keep finding links to jsbin lately which brought it to my attention
Dec 05 23:35:58 <dawm|laptop> like animated png's via js
Dec 05 23:35:59 <dawm|laptop> http://jsbin.com/ifaci
Dec 05 23:42:24 <kesne> dawm|laptop: Where do you find said links?
Dec 05 23:42:37 <dawm|laptop> all over the interwebs
Dec 05 23:46:36 <kesne> Good enough for me
Dec 05 23:56:51 <dawm|laptop> http://www.kolormodo.com/
Dec 05 23:56:54 <dawm|laptop> :D
Dec 05 23:59:54 <rwhitby> so, does anyone know how to make a ListSelector show the currently selected item when the user opens it, rather than showing the first item in the list?
Dec 06 00:02:34 <Tibfib> rwhitby: afaik, you can't
Dec 06 00:02:53 <Tibfib> but plenty of people know more than me..
Dec 06 00:03:11 <sugardave> wow, I just fired up Scan Do! in 2.0.1...it is WAY better and faster at connecting to streams than it is on 1.4.5
Dec 06 00:03:42 <Tibfib> sugardave: so I've been looking at the music player source, it looks like they find the time from a file via currentTime..
Dec 06 00:04:21 <sugardave> rwhitby: you set model.value then call this.controller.modelChanged();
Dec 06 00:05:17 <sugardave> Tibfib: interesting, I use it but it's on a stream
Dec 06 00:05:44 <Robi_> hm whats impostah?
Dec 06 00:06:09 <rwhitby> sugardave: it doesn't open the list to show the newly selected value
Dec 06 00:06:32 <rwhitby> sugardave: it opens the list showing the first elements.  if the .value is way down the list, you need to scroll and scroll to see it
Dec 06 00:06:40 <sugardave> oh I see
Dec 06 00:07:02 <sugardave> there may be a private method to scroll it, but not sure
Dec 06 00:14:31 <dawm|laptop> RT: ROBI_: hm whats impostah?
Dec 06 00:14:56 <haeffb> rwhitby: revealItem() ?
Dec 06 00:15:15 <haeffb> oh, listSelector. never mind
Dec 06 00:15:30 <sugardave> yeah, no methods
Dec 06 00:15:33 <sugardave> bitches
Dec 06 00:15:55 <haeffb> give fewer selector options.
Dec 06 00:16:31 <sugardave> move the selected item to the first index
Dec 06 00:17:49 <rwhitby> not too good when you may want to go to the next one
Dec 06 00:21:06 <Tibfib> yeah, it's annoying in lumberjack
Dec 06 00:21:36 <Tibfib> that's the only app I notice the problem in.. the widget should auto scroll to the selected item
Dec 06 00:22:44 <dawm|laptop> nice
Dec 06 00:22:57 <dawm|laptop> chrome allows bookmarks in the bar with no title, just shows the favicon for that site
Dec 06 00:23:09 <dawm|laptop> no more scrolling bookmark bar for me ;D
Dec 06 00:32:47 <dawm|laptop> Robi_: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2784513
Dec 06 00:35:59 <dawm|laptop> o_O tumblr is broke?
Dec 06 00:39:35 <hboisvert> anyone else have an odd sales report in their dev account? The only month I see is Nov 2009 (over a year ago)...
Dec 06 00:40:29 <Spanska> it's the first time I see someone from Quebec here ;)
Dec 06 00:41:05 <JenP> anyone have any success sending an IM from their app?
Dec 06 00:41:21 <hboisvert> I don't think there are many of us...
Dec 06 00:41:36 <haeffb> yes
Dec 06 00:42:28 <JenP> cool....now i know who to ask my questions to (sw)
Dec 06 00:42:53 <haeffb> just a sec, will pastebin
Dec 06 00:43:13 <JenP> thanks haeffb
Dec 06 00:44:38 <haeffb> http://webos.pastebin.com/2L9mbNfB
Dec 06 00:44:52 <JenP> oh i got it working!!!
Dec 06 00:45:24 <JenP> i was calling it from a dialog box and was forgetting sceneAssistant....
Dec 06 00:46:05 <haeffb> yay!
Dec 06 00:46:24 <Spanska> I don't understand why my SQL query doesn't sort the data. I've got one that works and another one that doesn't.. so strange
Dec 06 00:46:34 <JenP> lol i know huh! it's cause I found my notes from the last time you helped me...
Dec 06 00:49:52 <haeffb> Spanska: ORDER BY doesn't work?
Dec 06 00:50:14 <Spanska> haeffb: surprisingly, it works in one of my queries, but not in the other one
Dec 06 00:50:16 <hboisvert> spanska: even with Order By?
Dec 06 00:51:14 <hboisvert> spanska: what is your order by on (date, string, int, etc)?
Dec 06 00:51:19 <Spanska> SELECT * FROM 'holidays' ORDER BY country,name <== this query works correctly, SELECT * FROM 'holidays' ORDER BY month <== this one selects data as is from the table
Dec 06 00:51:54 <Spanska> country and name are TEXT columns and month is INTEGER
Dec 06 00:52:06 <dawm|laptop> gandalf sure has a stupid hat
Dec 06 00:52:23 <haeffb> ASC or DESC?
Dec 06 00:53:13 <Spanska> haeffb: the first query does it with ASC because I do not specify it, while I could try to specify it for the second query
Dec 06 00:54:01 * oil hates it when people abbreviate "description" ot "desc" as their field name in a database
Dec 06 00:56:09 <hboisvert> spanska, you could also try to add a second field to the orderby, like : 'Order By month,country' to see if that shakes things up...
Dec 06 00:56:52 <Spanska> hboisvert: I already tried country,month actually.. and country,month,date .. let's try month,country then
Dec 06 00:57:30 <Spanska> no change
Dec 06 00:57:44 <Spanska> haeffb: ASC or DESC doesn't change anything with the second query
Dec 06 00:58:25 <Spanska> haeffb: DESC works fine with my first query
Dec 06 01:00:16 <hboisvert> just a thought, 'month' may be a reserved keyword in sqlite. did you try to rename that column to 'month_number' or something like that? The query processor may have an issue with the word 'month' by itself in an Order By clause...
Dec 06 01:00:36 <Spanska> hrm, that's a good idea
Dec 06 01:00:48 <Spanska> ok, hold on.. this will take me a few more minutes to change my rows too
Dec 06 01:05:52 <Spanska> hboisvert: no change with monthnb instead of month
Dec 06 01:09:49 <hboisvert> spanska: out of ideas for now...
Dec 06 01:11:45 <Tibfib> anyone worked with html5 audio objects a bit?
Dec 06 01:12:57 <hboisvert> spanska: one more thing I'd try is to select a few fields instead of 'select *'...
Dec 06 01:19:40 <Spanska> hboisvert: I have to get some food now, I'll try this too when I will be back, thanks:)
Dec 06 01:20:50 <hboisvert> so, no one else has an issue with their developer sales report? mine seems to have been reset to nov. 2009...
Dec 06 01:20:55 <Robi_> dawm|laptop: ya saw the tweet. searched PC but that did not cover forums ;[
Dec 06 01:31:19 <Bmyers> hi all
Dec 06 01:31:43 <Bmyers> get all your lights hung sugardave  ?
Dec 06 01:34:33 <dawm|laptop> ooh this 8bit sndeffects maker is nice
Dec 06 02:28:44 <kesne_> Wow
Dec 06 02:28:46 <kesne_> Guys
Dec 06 02:28:48 <kesne_> This is big
Dec 06 02:28:59 <kesne_> This App Does Nothing! is getting an update
Dec 06 02:30:09 <oiI> Aww man
Dec 06 02:30:15 <oiI> This is a registered nick?
Dec 06 02:30:17 <oiI> Since when?
Dec 06 02:31:21 * KGF2009 falls from the ceiling.
Dec 06 02:34:19 <oil> since imposters be imposterin?
Dec 06 02:41:07 <BigBiff_> wow, i think i've forgotten more about writing code than i ever actually knew
Dec 06 02:41:16 <oil> lol
Dec 06 02:41:27 <BigBiff_> i think i know less now than when before i began
Dec 06 02:42:38 <BigBiff_> i'm looking at code I wrote almost a year ago - no clue what most of it means/does
Dec 06 02:42:48 <BigBiff_> :(
Dec 06 02:43:09 * BigBiff_ is depressed
Dec 06 02:57:01 <halfhalo> there is alot of rain right now...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 06 02:59:57 2010