**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 24 02:59:58 2010 Dec 24 03:03:56 arg! Dec 24 03:04:07 I dont have small enough star wrench here Dec 24 03:04:08 oy Dec 24 03:06:11 you can borrow mine :P Dec 24 03:07:40 :P its cheaper for me to go to home depot tomorrow then drive to northern vermont Dec 24 03:07:54 lies Dec 24 03:07:57 haha Dec 24 03:08:07 I was going to suggest radio shack, but that works too Dec 24 03:09:06 harborfreight Dec 24 03:09:20 mmm harborfreight Dec 24 03:09:26 forgot about them Dec 24 03:09:31 never forget about them Dec 24 03:09:40 or their 20% coupon (i always keep one in my wallet) Dec 24 03:09:56 they have a 20% coupon> Dec 24 03:09:57 ? Dec 24 03:10:00 wut Dec 24 03:10:14 and hope what you want is out of stock so you get a raincheck, and then you can apply the 20% to that item when it comes in and it keeps its sale price Dec 24 03:10:16 yeah Dec 24 03:10:24 almost every car magazine has a 20% coupon in it Dec 24 03:10:57 every web music player should have a volume control.. Dec 24 03:11:10 this phone is nice and all but no way im getting anything sim card related Dec 24 03:11:26 it will be a sprint phone by sundays eve Dec 24 03:12:15 can we kill all of this google stuff in 2.0 Dec 24 03:13:32 and say make it bing or yahoo Dec 24 03:13:38 what Dec 24 03:13:40 well, if you're successful then I'll have a verizon one by new years Dec 24 03:13:42 bing Dec 24 03:13:42 it Dec 24 03:13:44 bing it Dec 24 03:13:45 I kind of use all of this google stuff Dec 24 03:14:32 heh, where's my mozilla based cloud.... Dec 24 03:14:57 rwhitby said that text messaging may not work Dec 24 03:15:02 I don't really like the idea of google or microsoft having everything Dec 24 03:15:08 yeah I saw that Dec 24 03:15:32 I was pretty sure someone else got it completely working though... Dec 24 03:16:06 at least microsoft deletes your user indexed information after 6 months Dec 24 03:16:13 if you dont quickly delete it yourself Dec 24 03:16:21 but its not even about that Dec 24 03:16:46 no device should be tied into google the way this is, when you login it should prompt what search engine you want Dec 24 03:17:13 Google, Bing, Yahoo powered by Bing, etc Dec 24 03:17:15 does this sound dumb? (no pun intended) dumbstickers.com Dec 24 03:17:38 I think im being picky today :/ Dec 24 03:17:46 queue oil telling me to just patch it Dec 24 03:18:03 ctladvance, bing is in there Dec 24 03:18:08 you just need a patch to unlock it Dec 24 03:18:11 bah Dec 24 03:18:19 thats fixed in 2.0 Dec 24 03:18:23 oh it is? Dec 24 03:18:30 it picks up the search ithing Dec 24 03:18:33 it was like an omitted line in 1.4.5 Dec 24 03:18:36 yeah 2.0 lets you pick from a whole bunch of stuff Dec 24 03:18:44 where Dec 24 03:18:45 ? Dec 24 03:18:46 oh well in 1.4.5 theres a Bing image Dec 24 03:18:58 but its not added due to 1 line of code Dec 24 03:19:19 tap just type Dec 24 03:19:27 and go into its preferences Dec 24 03:19:37 it pickes them up from new websites, too Dec 24 03:19:44 i dont remember what it was called Dec 24 03:19:47 yeah, that part impressed me oil Dec 24 03:19:55 see this is 1.4.5 (manually patched) http://twitpic.com/22tq8q Dec 24 03:20:00 yohoo and bing Dec 24 03:20:10 search engine, bing is not there Dec 24 03:20:21 I see bing and no yahoo on 2.0 Dec 24 03:20:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSearch Dec 24 03:20:32 but wikipedia, twitter, amazon.. Dec 24 03:20:43 OpenSearch Dec 24 03:20:50 any website can add stuff to just type with it Dec 24 03:20:52 ah cool Dec 24 03:20:53 lots already do Dec 24 03:21:01 so that's why I have the option for tom's hardware Dec 24 03:21:04 when you're browsing, it pops up asking if you want to add it Dec 24 03:21:16 im sure if you go to bing it does it if you really want bing... Dec 24 03:21:48 it didn't add it to the main list, because I didn't say to add it, but it's got a small section for recently visited search engines Dec 24 03:22:37 hi folks Dec 24 03:23:14 hey Dec 24 03:23:20 hi oil Dec 24 03:23:38 alot of ppl on the road i guess Dec 24 03:25:02 yeah that's me tomorrow Dec 24 03:25:45 i'm traveling downstairs. thats all. Dec 24 03:26:09 i'm sure it will be early though with the kiddies getting up at the crack o dawn Dec 24 03:31:39 so, need to go to bing in the browser Dec 24 03:34:47 i dont like bing Dec 24 03:34:50 it knew i had facebook Dec 24 03:36:40 google knows what i had for breakfast Dec 24 03:36:52 google knows what color underwear I use Dec 24 03:37:07 are they going to use this information to sabotage my love life or kill my dog Dec 24 03:37:20 actually its very close to what i had for breakfast in color Dec 24 03:43:07 reboot Dec 24 03:45:09 my dog stinks, do they have beano for dogs? Dec 24 03:46:09 yo whats beano Dec 24 03:46:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beano_%28dietary_supplement%29 Dec 24 04:04:03 * Tibfib wonders how someone doesn't know what beano is. Dec 24 04:21:04 is it like the sequel to a sci fi flick Dec 24 04:21:13 some kind of cereal Dec 24 04:21:25 a scooby doo catch phrase Dec 24 04:23:42 how do I install a *.patch? Dec 24 04:26:14 bing it Dec 24 04:26:25 or ask oil Dec 24 04:26:37 then blame oil? Dec 24 04:33:44 I think preware can install them Dec 24 04:33:49 or quick install Dec 24 05:01:10 used quick install Dec 24 05:07:52 hmm, does anyone know how a web service can, with 100% confidence, know which webos app is contacting it? Dec 24 05:08:14 a secret key, if they look at the stored source, can get out Dec 24 05:08:38 does palm add anything in the headers of a Ajax.Request? Dec 24 05:09:58 fahhem: I've wondered the same thing Dec 24 05:10:11 how to do the same thing Dec 24 05:11:25 hmm, is node.js code also sort-of available? Dec 24 05:13:36 oh sweet, db :) Dec 24 05:14:02 because if a new app is uploaded to a phone, the previous db is deleted Dec 24 05:16:30 huh? Dec 24 05:16:44 in your ajax request you can always send the appid Dec 24 05:17:34 and i believe db's arent deleted unless the app is uninstalled, if they were deleted after an update no one would update their apps Dec 24 05:19:25 an update via the feeds, but not an update via side-load Dec 24 05:21:36 you're doing it wrong if your losing data Dec 24 05:24:44 is there anything that only remains available for a certain version of an app? Dec 24 05:31:54 haeffb_: i guess this is the main problem with a non-custom web service... Dec 24 06:00:07 fahhem, all depends on how the developer handles old data vs new data Dec 24 06:00:13 man i hate twitter bots Dec 24 06:02:09 cant tweet anything without getting followed by crap Dec 24 06:05:04 dawm: can you explain one way that can the app can ensure the data is only available to that version? Dec 24 06:05:16 a good example is with cookies Dec 24 06:05:26 set a part of your cookie object to store a version Dec 24 06:05:48 oh no, i need it to be such that an update CAN'T access, not WON'T access Dec 24 06:05:50 new version of the app checks the version in the cookie, if its older than required it updates the cookie Dec 24 06:06:28 converts/updates Dec 24 06:06:44 i thought with html 5 databases, when uploading a new one the number in the filename would increment Dec 24 06:09:06 man, i forgot all about cygwin Dec 24 06:10:26 i hate cygwin Dec 24 06:13:07 whoa Dec 24 06:13:13 woot doesnt have a tweet button Dec 24 06:13:16 thats odd Dec 24 06:13:48 because they don't want to spam twitter with their crappy products, that's the spammers' job Dec 24 06:13:57 crappy? Dec 24 06:14:06 dunno where that came from Dec 24 06:14:19 but they could atleast have it on deals.woot.com which is all user submitted deals Dec 24 06:14:40 woot's 'appeal', comes from the 'limited time' they're available, not from the value of the product Dec 24 06:33:29 hey dawm: you come up with a domain name for your project? Dec 24 06:33:36 no Dec 24 06:33:47 just a few that are usable Dec 24 06:33:51 pain isnt it. :) Dec 24 06:33:56 yea Dec 24 06:34:42 i had a short .bz domain and just subdomained anthing else thorugh it.. made life simpler.. if someone bought a site from me i would just forward it/mask.. Dec 24 06:45:25 ugh Dec 24 06:45:45 dunno if its too tacky to replace all vowels with #s in a domain name.. it looks weird Dec 24 06:46:36 looks 'hackish' imo. :/ Dec 24 06:48:08 i got stuck with the domainname blues, and just got a .ws, and made a com subdomain to help.. ie; com.mydomain.ws.. its ok. :) i think Dec 24 06:48:56 what's the app roughly about? maybe #s makes sense Dec 24 06:49:14 not an app Dec 24 06:49:18 vinyl decal biz Dec 24 06:49:47 dash? or you opposed to those likewise/ Dec 24 06:49:58 no hyphens, their lame ;p Dec 24 06:50:15 haha.. yeah, pita too. to type in. Dec 24 06:51:11 i could go with a .rs domain but thats $99/yr just for the domain.. not really liking that option Dec 24 06:51:57 youch Dec 24 06:52:07 tried moniker? Dec 24 06:52:39 IME, they've been almosthald what otehr in domain regs prices.. more or less. Dec 24 06:52:40 ? Dec 24 06:52:44 moniker.com Dec 24 06:52:49 registrar Dec 24 06:53:15 they dont even have it Dec 24 06:53:22 ah Dec 24 06:53:44 * viSOlix thinks .info should be renamed .rtfm :) Dec 24 06:53:54 i looked around at the .rs registrars they're all $99/yr and you need a contact in that country to get it which some supply.. seems like more work than its really worth Dec 24 06:54:11 yeah Dec 24 06:54:18 what's .rs? Dec 24 06:54:32 serbia Dec 24 06:54:34 ah Dec 24 06:54:43 .cc 's arnt to bad imo. Dec 24 06:54:52 getting more accepted.. i think Dec 24 06:57:25 my very fist domain was gsk.com ... myinitials, should have kept that one.. ;) $$ meh. Dec 24 06:57:56 you should have Dec 24 06:58:09 2 and 3 char domains are $$ Dec 24 06:58:19 that would be worth tens of thousands today :p Dec 24 06:58:48 yeah, was long time ago.. before i even knew how to design, so just got tired of renewing.. :/ Dec 24 06:58:56 yup Dec 24 06:59:03 haha, oh well, happens Dec 24 06:59:29 now, pizza.com, hehehhe Dec 24 06:59:57 sold for a couple of mil on ebay a year or so ago. Dec 24 07:00:21 yours? Dec 24 07:00:38 nope. :| Dec 24 07:00:47 :) Dec 24 07:01:04 the domain name trade is.. ridiculous Dec 24 07:01:20 and very, very poorly regulated Dec 24 07:01:22 i used to own bubblebobble.com for many years Dec 24 07:01:31 thought of it "back in the day" 1992 or so, when AOL just started out, and i had a pad through the University.. but just never played it out. Dec 24 07:01:36 but that was back when there was only netsol @ $70/yr Dec 24 07:01:41 another, !@#$.. ;) ahh, hindsite. Dec 24 07:01:45 so i sold it and bubandbob.com was able to get it Dec 24 07:02:02 nice Dec 24 07:02:24 yeah i contacted them but never heard anything back, i didnt even mention an asking price Dec 24 07:02:27 see cheap tactics of networksolutions and others for example.. they register any domain you look up through them for a few days, so you -have- to buy through them if you use their lookup (or wait) Dec 24 07:02:33 @ tmandry agreed Dec 24 07:02:35 so i threw it up on ebay for what i paid for the registration over the years Dec 24 07:02:41 they snuck in at the last minute and got it Dec 24 07:05:13 I just can't stand squatters Dec 24 07:05:37 squatters.. heh. Dec 24 07:05:49 mind you, I did that for awhile :p Dec 24 07:06:17 regrettably Dec 24 07:06:19 oh, i have once or twice, on something i wasnt willing to lose for a few pennies.. ;) Dec 24 07:06:34 in a perfect world.. you ought to have a legitimate use for a domain to register it.. though that'll never happen Dec 24 07:06:37 but yeah.. not cool practice. Dec 24 07:06:44 i hate squatters that sit on a domain for years.. Dec 24 07:06:56 one domain i want hasnt been used for 10yrs, just says coming soon Dec 24 07:07:02 it expires next month and im hoping ;p Dec 24 07:07:46 yeah, those the worse.. i offered someone a price for a domain they never used, or probably KNEW they still had.. hehe, after i made the offer, he posted a "make me an offer" on it.... still has it now.. i should have just stfu, and got it when it canceld.. :/ Dec 24 07:07:49 yeah.. unfortunate Dec 24 07:09:38 is webOS 2.x supposed to improve the performance of hybrid apps when plugins draw to the screen? seems I remember reading that Dec 24 07:26:23 is there a way to have something run when the app is installed only? Dec 24 07:45:15 yeh check for a cookie with a firstrun var, if it doesnt see it its the first run, then set it in the cookie so that the next time it knows its not Dec 24 07:49:04 i was hoping for a more built-in way, but i guess that works fine Dec 24 07:49:46 http://www.webos101.com/Code_Snippets#Show_a_scene_only_at_first_run_of_an_app Dec 24 07:49:55 thats an example (shows a scene on first run) Dec 24 07:59:20 thanks btw Dec 24 08:10:50 yep no problem Dec 24 08:10:59 off to bed Dec 24 08:11:36 hey, does http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ offer anonymous login? or somewhere/use precentrals username/pass to get FTP? anyone knwo? Dec 24 08:11:48 l8r dawm Dec 24 08:13:13 zzz wourld work too. ;) Dec 24 08:55:26 anyone still up? Dec 24 08:56:31 yup Dec 24 08:57:20 ever softmodded a wii? Dec 24 08:57:35 via homebrew channel? ya Dec 24 08:57:41 hi all Dec 24 08:58:02 even wrote a simple app for it Dec 24 08:59:02 just looking for a softmod method... i've got a stock wii and trying to get acquainted with what methods are available Dec 24 08:59:32 to play hacked games or just homebrew games? Dec 24 08:59:59 either or Dec 24 09:00:07 just feel like tinkering Dec 24 09:00:25 well, the homebrew channel is pretty easy to install, but you need some initial hack Dec 24 09:00:42 i used the zelda hack back when it was working Dec 24 09:01:05 but if the wii is updated within the past several months, you'll need some new method Dec 24 09:01:43 i think she updated it within the last couple months Dec 24 09:01:44 hey quick q.. Dec 24 09:01:51 any recommendations for a note-taking software? Dec 24 09:02:18 ajay, erm... in webOS? Dec 24 09:02:21 only for the PC Dec 24 09:02:31 indiana jones seems to be the latest method Dec 24 09:02:51 Yeah, something that I can sync between devices (all Pres atm) and use on the web.. ideally something that had a need Linux client Dec 24 09:03:03 I've been using TomBoy on linux, but i feel like i need something that will work on my phone Dec 24 09:03:09 (actually.. Dec 24 09:03:21 mugen-: they say on (http://bootmii.org/install/) to use (http://bannerbomb.qoid.us/) Dec 24 09:03:42 you could write the app for it :) Dec 24 09:03:43 I was thinking maybe there's a tomboy for webOS, but nope, i only see requests for it. :) Dec 24 09:03:59 yeah, nothing comes off the head for linux especially Dec 24 09:04:28 something with a linux client would be ideal, but maybe i can settle for an alright/decent web experience Dec 24 09:04:33 like fahhem said, you could write one :) a webapp based note app would be ideal for xplatform-ness Dec 24 09:04:58 fahhem, i'm looking at this right now -> http://goo.gl/CnZTB Dec 24 09:05:02 if there are a lot of requests, it shows you can make some good dough being the first-to-market in that arena Dec 24 09:05:14 mugen-: yeah good luck to me with that! :) Dec 24 09:05:16 oh, you're on 4.3? ouch Dec 24 09:05:23 :) Dec 24 09:05:27 fahhem, ouch? Dec 24 09:05:42 sorry... i'm not up to speed with _anything_ wii Dec 24 09:05:57 isn't it the latest firmware? Dec 24 09:06:05 I don't think I'd be first to market, and with almost no css/js exp it'd be a bad interface.. maybe a good chance for a start at dev'in, but.....! Dec 24 09:06:26 generally having the latest firmware when trying to homebrew something is an ouch because the tools either don't exist or are 'beta' aka buggy Dec 24 09:06:49 i'm surprised nobody's teamed up in here yet Dec 24 09:07:20 oh well yeah... i just didn't know it was the latest firmware Dec 24 09:07:26 there are plenty of people who say 'oh, i'm not a programmer... but i have a good design' and then a bunch others that say "oh, i can't design...." Dec 24 09:07:29 i'm literally that outdated on wii affairs Dec 24 09:07:44 well, that guide seems to be good Dec 24 09:08:05 anyone use fliq suite? It's the only one than evernote mentioned on precentral's early best apps of '10 Dec 24 09:08:11 yeah, the wii scene has died down recently anyway, nothing huge can come out other than new system updates Dec 24 09:08:14 cept for the fact i need 1 of 3 games -.- Dec 24 09:08:22 blah. Dec 24 09:08:38 do you remember the old original xbox softmod? Dec 24 09:08:41 yeah, system updates blocked the zelda hack Dec 24 09:08:48 no, the wii was the first console i ever had Dec 24 09:08:54 ah Dec 24 09:09:12 the first softmod that was done for the xbox was a hoot Dec 24 09:09:19 damn i thought save n restore did contacts, blah Dec 24 09:09:28 had to swap ide cables during exact points in the booting of the console Dec 24 09:09:37 lol Dec 24 09:09:37 had maybe a half second window Dec 24 09:09:51 and if you didn't get it right, it was a pain in the ass to relock the drive Dec 24 09:10:00 soooooooooooooooo many frusterating nights on that one Dec 24 09:10:25 but doesn't seem to be a web/linux soln. poo on that Dec 24 09:10:38 ouch Dec 24 09:13:30 guess it has 4.2u Dec 24 09:14:17 is there a software to backup (and ideally restore) contacts (And ideally links too)? Dec 24 09:14:49 palm cloud :) Dec 24 09:16:17 sweet :D i don't need a game for this versio Dec 24 09:16:30 just a 2gb sandisk card Dec 24 09:16:55 fahhem: I wish! Dec 24 09:17:12 wait why? Dec 24 09:17:19 palm cloud actually does backup your contacts Dec 24 09:17:27 backing up links comes with 2.0 Dec 24 12:36:02 surprising note: even though this channel was talking about awesome domains, nobody bought WebOSservices.com until now Dec 24 13:48:30 does the palm review-staff make x-mas holidays? somebody knows? Dec 24 14:00:15 ajay: I have a Noted! app in the catalog that syncs with http://www.simplenoteapp.com Dec 24 14:00:41 haeffb_: i was just thinking of asking you something Dec 24 14:00:42 leiru: palm review staff is gone for the holidays. Dec 24 14:00:54 too late, I'm done answering for the day! Dec 24 14:00:59 haha, dang Dec 24 14:01:17 for the cloud-backup service, what kind of usage would make sense? Dec 24 14:02:26 i'm trying to come up with some sort of pricing model, but i don't know some variables like: roughly how long an app 'lasts' and how often apps want to sync Dec 24 14:02:48 depends on the app...daily incremental backup would probably work Dec 24 14:03:06 the type of apps that I'm thinking of would last forever. Dec 24 14:03:17 Or the user would want the data forever. Dec 24 14:03:49 so just a single daily sync is sufficient? Dec 24 14:04:07 in addition to the daily, you could have a full backup to replace what's there...for a new version with db schema changes, etc. Dec 24 14:04:08 and i was thinking 1 full restore per month on average Dec 24 14:04:46 well, 1 partial and 1 full aren't much different in terms of costs, i can roll them together Dec 24 14:04:52 the user probably wouldn't need a restore very often. just knowing that the data is safe is the main thing. Dec 24 14:05:11 and offer an export to CSV thru the web... Dec 24 14:05:47 that's simple enough Dec 24 14:06:26 so what's a good price point per backed-up user? Dec 24 14:08:13 i was thinking 10cents per user for paid apps Dec 24 14:35:07 Charge the users. It's their data. Dec 24 14:35:20 $1 per year per app or something. Dec 24 14:35:43 but that's a lot harder than with apps Dec 24 14:36:33 guess it makes more sense Dec 24 15:13:35 wow, pixi plus for $80 on vzw prepaid .. pretty cheap Dec 24 15:13:59 vzw prepaid didn't seem very prepaid to me Dec 24 15:14:04 isn't it monthly? Dec 24 15:15:14 i didn't think so .. the plans i am seeing are $45 for 450 minutes that expire in like 3 months if you don't use it Dec 24 15:15:29 oh, they may have made it better Dec 24 15:23:17 still, for a dev to get a brand new pixi device for $80 + $45 isn't too bad Dec 24 15:38:45 should drive down the price on ebay devices too Dec 24 15:38:48 anyone good at php willing to help me out? Dec 24 15:39:00 sure Dec 24 15:39:13 what're you having trouble with, Tibfib Dec 24 15:39:21 well, I can't read a freaking array. Dec 24 15:39:24 mind if I pm? Dec 24 15:39:27 sure Dec 24 15:49:26 wow... making a frankin pre is seemingly easy Dec 24 15:49:28 interesting Dec 24 15:49:47 good design is modularity Dec 24 15:50:12 franken-pre? Dec 24 15:51:16 swapping pre/pre plus/2 parts .. Dec 24 15:51:43 so the GSM and CDMA chips have the same footprint now? Dec 24 15:52:27 well they are modular Dec 24 15:52:51 so one can take from a sprint pre 1 and swap with the communications board of the pre 2 Dec 24 15:53:10 then doctor up the os a bit and Boom Dec 24 15:53:34 that wasn't the case before, but if Qualcomm is putting enough things on each chip, i guess the footprints will converge Dec 24 15:54:01 since gsm has two radios while cdma has one, the chips weren't ever pin-to-pin compatible Dec 24 15:54:31 i remember seeing the gsm and cdma versions of the same treo and the circuit boards were very different Dec 24 15:54:40 cdma has a diversity channel Dec 24 16:07:12 alright, i have an app requisition from this channel: an app that lets users select from (possible search) a list of other applications and then pay some recurring amount annually for them Dec 24 16:07:30 i'm willing to pay, make a bid, feel free to PM Dec 24 16:08:38 mostly simple, only the payment portion is a little complicated and i can help with that Dec 24 16:34:11 yes but im swapping a cdma board with a gsm board Dec 24 18:07:48 Hi I am a student and i want to get started with developing a gaming application for palm, i am new to the world of palm and i needed some guidance regarding how should i start. So far i have installed pdk and ms visual basic on my system but i haven't been able to find good tutorials for opengl es can someone please suggest something useful in this regard, thanks. Dec 24 18:08:16 well, visual basic is utterly useless to you, you understand that? Dec 24 18:08:44 umm ok so what ide should i adopt ? Dec 24 18:08:50 you're developing for a linux platform, and will be writing in a lanaguage that can be cross-compiled into ARM binaries.... Dec 24 18:08:55 notepad! Dec 24 18:09:09 Guest74350 what languages do you have experiance in? Dec 24 18:09:12 d'ohohohoh Dec 24 18:09:13 maybe you mean Visual Studio? Dec 24 18:09:20 sorry Dec 24 18:09:22 my mistake Dec 24 18:09:30 visual studio is what i meant Dec 24 18:09:33 right Dec 24 18:09:41 Guest74350 ok... what languages have you written in. Dec 24 18:09:44 I don't know if people are using VS. I think you could! Dec 24 18:10:04 you certainly CAN as long as a cross-compile exists for the language in question. Dec 24 18:10:06 i have experience in C and C++, more in C but i am ok with c++ as well Dec 24 18:10:21 ok, good. that's the right answer. Dec 24 18:10:33 but no low-level graphics experiance? Dec 24 18:10:48 Just FYI, this was the second result fron Bing on "opengl es visual studio" Dec 24 18:10:55 http://www.webreference.com/programming/opengl_es/ Dec 24 18:11:09 @Rich_work no i have no experience with low level graphics programming Dec 24 18:11:29 Guest74350 so, what sort of game do you want to do? Dec 24 18:11:29 u v[can use vs Dec 24 18:11:38 works really well Dec 24 18:12:13 yeah i followed teh steps mentioned on developer.palm.com which told me to install pdk and ms visual studio prior to starting Dec 24 18:12:35 ok. If it was me, I would go look at docs and tutorials at http://www.opengl.org/code/ Dec 24 18:14:24 if you are unfamiliar you have a long rode ahead of you, but once you get it, you can write for webOS as PDK, IOS, or anything else that will use openGL Dec 24 18:16:00 @Rick_work the idea of the game is as follows - u have a grid filled with colored spheres(a total of 5 colors to choose from) and the moment the user puts his stylus across one of the little balls, all the balls in same row and column that have same color are highligted and popped, the aim is to clear te grid in given time Dec 24 18:16:22 that doesn't mean you don't have a FUN road ahead of you! just that you should learn the basics of opengl programming first Dec 24 18:16:33 or, find a partner to work with Dec 24 18:16:50 Guest74350 ok, not a bad game concept, and if you do it in pdk, port to iphone is easy. and linux desktop and .... once you're in opengl you can go a lot of places Dec 24 18:16:53 something on the lines of - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Implode Dec 24 18:17:13 but less complex Dec 24 18:17:16 but you have a long road. Start with the beginner tutorials on the opengl.org site I pointed to and go on.... Dec 24 18:17:37 OR find someone interested in working with you as a partner and learn from them as you go. Dec 24 18:18:30 is there significant amount of difference between opengl and opengl es? Dec 24 18:18:40 ohhhhyheah Dec 24 18:18:57 i've come to know that palm uses opengl es while desktop apps use opengl Dec 24 18:19:30 opengles is a subset. Dec 24 18:20:05 @Rick_work ok, so i assume that learning opengl well would enable me to program in opengl es as well? Dec 24 18:21:38 yes,, see the first linked section on this page http://www.khronos.org/opengles/ for the difference between gl and gl-es Dec 24 18:21:47 you gotta start somewhere. Dec 24 18:23:48 ok so i think i should first start with tutorials at http://www.opengl.org/ Dec 24 19:01:31 is there a 'trick' to getting an unactivated phone (for dev), to drop into USB mode? Rebooting with UP Volume held is not doing it.. :) (and of course DevMode has not been enabled yet, so no Shell, etc).. thanks ! Dec 24 19:02:46 did you try -> take the battery out, hold vol up, plug usb to phone and PC, then pop battery in? Dec 24 19:03:12 holding volume up the entire time till the usb logo appears Dec 24 19:03:13 heh, yes actually, but only once, will try that again.. Dec 24 19:03:29 ahh, ok, i usually let it go after it looks to be booting.. Dec 24 19:03:51 will give those a try again.. :) thanks dohtem. Dec 24 19:03:59 np Dec 24 19:05:21 that did it.. :) ty Dec 24 19:08:25 are you trying to doctor? Dec 24 19:15:17 no, well, yes, but on a new dev device... its all good now. :) Dec 24 19:16:00 putting the meta-doctor on it, bypassing all the defaults etc.. Dec 24 19:18:27 bbl Dec 24 21:24:48 there Dec 24 21:25:11 i think i cant get any better of a discount.. lowest i could get was 22.98 but now i got it to 22.82 :P Dec 24 21:25:22 wish the 0.99 sale was still going on Dec 24 21:26:47