**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 12 02:59:58 2011 Jan 12 04:07:09 Hmm I forget, can we use eclipse for work with Mojo HTML and JS Jan 12 04:07:57 Yes? I think. Eclipse is what Palm officially supports, at least. Jan 12 04:08:00 CTLAdvance: yeah, there's a plugin in the SDK Jan 12 04:08:16 Thats what I thought Jan 12 04:08:21 * SineOt has been using webOS.sugar though... Works way better than Eclipse ever did. Jan 12 04:08:51 I am using to many different files now and its hard to manage in notpad++ Jan 12 04:08:55 notepad Jan 12 04:09:00 webos.sugar Jan 12 04:09:19 https://github.com/onecrayon/WebOS.sugar plugin for Espresso Jan 12 04:09:24 CTLAdvance: go to options, make the tabs stack instead of scroll Jan 12 04:09:33 ah Jan 12 04:09:44 That may do it tibfib Jan 12 04:09:49 I know this has amillion options Jan 12 04:09:51 let me see Jan 12 04:10:03 yeah discovered it a couple days ago as well as multiple line edit Jan 12 04:11:01 * Tibfib wouldn't mind a notepad++ webOS extension Jan 12 04:12:41 I see something for vertical Jan 12 04:12:45 nothing for stack Jan 12 04:13:45 vertical makes them on the left, but they are all oriented differently Jan 12 04:14:49 "Tab Bar: Multiline [ ]" Jan 12 04:14:59 well it's under tab bar Jan 12 04:15:06 Yes I have that Jan 12 04:15:07 thanks Jan 12 04:16:22 hmm, you already have that? what do you want in addition? Jan 12 04:19:10 no just turned that on Jan 12 04:19:13 its helping Jan 12 04:19:31 I had it when ypu posted it Jan 12 04:20:10 FIESTA! Jan 12 04:21:01 We need like a function explorer Jan 12 04:21:41 oh, gtocha Jan 12 04:21:48 function explorer ? Jan 12 04:22:18 * oil writes code by opening the harddrive and using a magnet to flip the bits Jan 12 04:22:27 so that's why it ... Jan 12 04:22:34 THE BITS! THEY ARE FLIPPED! Jan 12 04:22:41 exactly Jan 12 04:22:51 * halfhalo flips oils bit Jan 12 04:23:05 * SineOt ponders a keyboard where you type... By punching things. Jan 12 04:23:05 hehehehe Jan 12 04:23:11 i encrypt all my ascii by setting the 8th bit on all my characters Jan 12 04:23:55 * halfhalo typed this message using a chicken and a hamster Jan 12 04:24:17 try to figure THAT one out Jan 12 04:24:41 you pavlovian genius Jan 12 04:24:57 * oil sends his bits to the internet by putting them on a usb drive, strapping it to a pigeon, and setting it free Jan 12 04:25:19 Hamster ball rotation selects keys, chicken is used to adjust rotation of hamster ball, KEYBOARD Jan 12 04:25:28 Chicken also doubles as a steady cam mount. Jan 12 04:25:58 steady keyboard .. Jan 12 04:26:02 for those bumpy rides Jan 12 04:36:47 I love when a UI concept just... Perfectly comes together. Jan 12 04:37:04 me too! Jan 12 04:37:13 what are you referring to? Jan 12 04:37:47 A rework of my first real "app" Jan 12 04:38:10 bah Jan 12 04:38:11 apps Jan 12 04:38:17 nice Jan 12 04:38:25 * Tibfib is off to bed Jan 12 04:38:28 night alllll Jan 12 04:40:47 night tibfib Jan 12 05:36:02 mugen-: holy smokes! 4.5 stars with 6 reviews on my Boxee remote :o Jan 12 05:36:42 :D Jan 12 05:37:18 SineOt: congrats Jan 12 05:37:26 let me go zero star it Jan 12 05:37:33 haha Jan 12 05:37:33 kidding Jan 12 05:37:35 :) Jan 12 05:38:06 SineOt: seriously is it a cool app? Jan 12 05:41:24 it's a perfect app Jan 12 05:41:31 if you own/use a boxee htpc Jan 12 05:43:53 Yeah, I'm working on the site right now... Want to point people towards it so I have a place to document like, planned features etc. Jan 12 05:44:57 drawers?!?!! Jan 12 05:44:58 :D Jan 12 05:45:39 why do I need drawers? D: Jan 12 05:46:44 cause they're neat Jan 12 05:46:51 and they're my favorite mojo widget Jan 12 05:46:55 heh Jan 12 05:47:05 I guess I could rock some drawers somewhere Jan 12 05:47:08 and everytime i use them in my own apps, they break the ui Jan 12 05:47:14 SineOt: you walk around without drawers, what happens if you black out and have to be taken to the emergency room? Jan 12 05:47:36 I dieeeeeeeeeeeeee Jan 12 05:47:57 also, chafing/ Jan 12 05:48:22 SineOt: need drawers Jan 12 05:48:43 * SineOt puts everything in drawers. Drawers inside of drawers inside of drawers inside a scroller inside of a drawer. Jan 12 05:49:07 SineOt: did you not catch the double meaning? or is drawers as underwear not common slang everywhere? Jan 12 05:49:16 * destinal is in a silly mood. Jan 12 05:49:16 I caught it, hence the "I die" Jan 12 05:49:26 i caught it Jan 12 05:49:27 since I wouldn't have my wallet! Or anything really. Jan 12 05:49:30 SineOt: oh of embarrassment maybe Jan 12 05:49:36 but it's not slang here in the states Jan 12 05:49:42 pft, why of embarrassment? :T Jan 12 05:49:44 unless your deep south Jan 12 05:50:00 mugen-: my girlfriend grew up in the deep south, so I picked up some slang from her Jan 12 05:50:40 hehe :) Jan 12 05:50:43 she does point out some of it's ridiculous though, like "skeeters" Jan 12 05:50:46 she have a twang? Jan 12 05:50:57 (mosquitos apparantly) Jan 12 05:51:01 yea Jan 12 05:51:17 Yup, heard (and used) skeeters before out here in Cali... And yes it's ridiculous Jan 12 05:51:20 mugen-: she's actually worked hard over the years to eliminate that accent Jan 12 05:51:29 awe! Jan 12 05:51:36 i love the southern bell talk... Jan 12 05:52:05 skeeters in cali Jan 12 05:52:07 * mugen- gasps Jan 12 05:52:23 ugh, well it's cold and i'm tired... Jan 12 05:52:39 nite guys :D Jan 12 05:53:30 Night mugen- Jan 12 05:53:39 it's right cold 'nuf to burn a far Jan 12 06:00:37 sugardave: :) Jan 12 06:08:35 CSS multiple backgrounds are awesome Jan 12 09:39:17 Quiet. Jan 12 10:17:03 teemu: ? Jan 12 10:17:16 hotdp: ! Jan 12 10:18:21 fahhem: !! Jan 12 10:20:09 sup? Jan 12 10:22:06 * hotdp wonder if there will be a IRC event feb. 9 Jan 12 10:22:31 what're you up to these days? Jan 12 10:38:00 hotdp: I was just commenting how quiet it is around here at this time of the day Jan 12 10:39:46 i think is quiet all day long Jan 12 10:40:06 more activity at night (for me) but nothing compared to when i joined the channel Jan 12 14:01:15 Anyone know where com.palm.configurator is located on a 2.0 device? Jan 12 16:21:16 still can't find any commands for com.palm.db other than 'find'... Jan 12 16:30:44 Bleh. I hate that Preware still 'freezes' when trying to download an app that's no longer available. Jan 12 17:05:46 there must be some way to uncover the valid method names for a service... Jan 12 17:06:03 semprance: what are you trying to do? Jan 12 17:06:41 note that I do not have my Pre 2 with me, so 2.0 questions will be answered in a purely speculative manner Jan 12 17:07:40 Well I've been using Impostah to make calls to private services Jan 12 17:07:49 in particular I'm using palm://com.palm.db/find Jan 12 17:08:00 I need to discover what methods com.palm.db has other than find Jan 12 17:08:14 I've been novaterming round aimlessly for hours >_< Jan 12 17:08:27 hmm, generally I would go to the app/service dir and start reading the source Jan 12 17:08:54 com.palm.db doesn't seem to have any sort of app or service folder Jan 12 17:09:08 find dir/where/app/is -name "*.js" | xargs grep find Jan 12 17:09:10 ah Jan 12 17:09:12 I see Jan 12 17:09:47 there are various files around, the only significant one I can find simply runs 'mojodb-luna /var/db' Jan 12 17:10:05 but mojodb-luna is always running anyway by the look of things Jan 12 17:10:48 currently I'm running grep -lir "palm://com.palm.db" to see if it turns up anywhere Jan 12 17:10:55 I'm totally stumped ... Jan 12 17:11:29 if you still haven't found it in a couple of hours I can poke around on my Pre 2 when I get home Jan 12 17:11:57 I'd go: find / -name "*" | xargs grep find, then start narrowing it down from there Jan 12 17:12:05 thanks, I'd appreciate that. I'll PM you later on if I'm still stuck Jan 12 17:12:19 ok, I'll try that now. This grep is taking years anyway Jan 12 17:13:20 lol killed my phone Jan 12 17:13:24 doh Jan 12 17:13:40 well, luna-restart. I'll try again shortly Jan 12 17:18:22 argh grep caused another restart Jan 12 17:19:31 being driven mental... Jan 12 17:19:48 I haven't used Impostah yet...what is your end goal? Jan 12 17:20:58 SMS Backup Jan 12 17:21:04 Retrieval is fine so far Jan 12 17:21:28 but as I only know the "find" method, I'm looking for a way to manipulate the db Jan 12 17:21:55 needs to be in an app? Jan 12 17:22:18 or do you just want to be able to back your stuff up no matter the process? Jan 12 17:22:38 really needs to be accessible through an app front-end Jan 12 17:22:50 k Jan 12 17:22:57 I've had a browse using sqlite and know that it can be done that way Jan 12 17:23:03 right Jan 12 17:23:19 it may be that there is no method....you might need to write a service that can drive sqlite Jan 12 17:23:47 Hmm, I was hoping to avoid that, but it might be the more sensible option in the end. Jan 12 17:24:21 still, I'd like to know for certain. I thought there might be a way to get services to give up their method names but it seems not Jan 12 17:24:51 not directly, as far as I know Jan 12 17:25:00 there isn't a "show me your methods" method :D Jan 12 17:25:58 lol exactly! Jan 12 17:26:36 I also tried the obvious of sending requests with method names like "add", "update", "change", "edit", etc. but they all returned a no-such-method error Jan 12 17:27:41 It seems that the "find" method requires you to have a "from" parameter. It takes a "select" param and "where" and other sql stuff, but rejects "insert", and "update". Jan 12 17:33:57 yeah, I would expect no method for insert or update, unless it's coming from an app in com.palm namespace, and even then it's probably not there Jan 12 17:36:20 well I figured the messaging app must have some way of doing it. Jan 12 17:36:29 Seeing as you can edit and save messages to some folder Jan 12 17:36:33 *folders Jan 12 17:36:47 but it uses some sort of nodejs service Jan 12 17:39:21 BINGO! dbstore.js Jan 12 17:39:26 woot! Jan 12 17:39:30 marvellous, on I move Jan 12 18:22:32 jon stewart did a 7 minute long segment on the verizon iphone lol Jan 12 18:22:35 is at&t that bad Jan 12 18:27:12 yes Jan 12 18:27:16 lol Jan 12 18:27:19 thanks to iphone it is Jan 12 18:27:45 I think you will start to see iphone outsell android now that its on big red Jan 12 18:27:56 espoecially if they bring the iphone 5 at the same time Jan 12 18:28:03 to att and v Jan 12 18:33:31 wow amazon is sold out of eee slates both 32 and 64 gb models Jan 12 18:33:32 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HKIIF8/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=17S7D5BXHYS8GA42XNHX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846 Jan 12 19:31:28 that Jan 12 19:31:34 is a $999 tablet Jan 12 19:38:28 wow...if you're going to go that far you might as well get the thinkpad Jan 12 19:42:21 yeah at least that comes with the abstracted pointing devices that actually work with windows Jan 12 19:42:23 heh Jan 12 19:42:26 Works With Windows Jan 12 19:42:32 windows works with windows Jan 12 19:42:37 want work with windows? Jan 12 19:42:41 windows wants work! Jan 12 19:42:53 whoa! Jan 12 20:10:39 you know what would be awesome? Jan 12 20:10:45 pie Jan 12 20:11:11 if some of these alternate app frameworks, like jQuery Touch and Sencha Touch, had support for transitions and animations that actually worked okay in webOS Jan 12 20:11:55 * halfhalo would rather have pie Jan 12 20:13:38 pie would be good Jan 12 20:18:40 hi Jan 12 20:23:00 lo Jan 12 20:47:35 * oil used to like snow before he had to shovel tons of the crap Jan 12 20:48:06 lol Jan 12 20:48:18 haha Jan 12 20:48:22 * halfhalo has innout and is watching netflix at work Jan 12 20:48:42 I was just saying how excited I was that the forecast went from 2" to 8" Jan 12 20:49:00 I moved to an apartment where I don't have a walk to shovel anymore Jan 12 20:50:55 * oil punches loudergood in the kidney Jan 12 20:51:04 lol Jan 12 20:52:04 what is snow Jan 12 20:52:10 good thing I've got my winter jacket on ;) Jan 12 20:52:35 torchie: frozen rain that falls from the sky and builds up on the ground Jan 12 20:52:43 sounds like science fantasy Jan 12 20:52:53 i wish Jan 12 20:52:56 snow is gone here Jan 12 20:53:08 the snow that showed up last night Jan 12 20:53:14 piled in on the snow from last week Jan 12 20:53:17 that had yet to melt! Jan 12 20:53:35 hahahahaha Jan 12 20:54:05 Sounds like you need a flamethrower Jan 12 20:54:07 * halfhalo is watching it crowd Jan 12 20:54:12 your snow melts? Jan 12 20:54:32 I thought it didn't do that until april Jan 12 20:55:09 if it gets warm enough it melts Jan 12 20:55:18 got out to my car and half of it facing the sun was dry Jan 12 20:55:26 other half covered in snow Jan 12 20:55:49 it gets warm before the end of march? where is this fantasy land? Jan 12 20:55:55 well Jan 12 20:55:59 "warm" is relative Jan 12 20:56:22 warm enough to melt snow is not what i would consider warm xD Jan 12 21:01:02 moooo Jan 12 21:01:15 oregon Jan 12 21:01:22 france Jan 12 21:01:34 yeah, north of oregon, jerk! Jan 12 21:01:39 on a side note Jan 12 21:01:48 i think halfhalo is turning into a cow Jan 12 21:01:58 he says moo an awful lot Jan 12 21:02:10 oregonish Jan 12 21:02:17 your a cow Jan 12 21:02:26 and by "oregonish" he means, "washington state" Jan 12 21:02:32 lol Jan 12 21:02:32 half of halo or whole of cow? Jan 12 21:02:39 the other half is cow Jan 12 21:02:43 * halfhalo is bored Jan 12 21:03:30 oil - we are brothers now that we have shared sushi.... Jan 12 21:03:40 idk Jan 12 21:03:46 my brother would know which state i live in :) Jan 12 21:03:46 or at least been in the same room as sushi Jan 12 21:03:48 poisoned susho Jan 12 21:04:47 well, not like brothers that care what state we live in...the other kind Jan 12 21:04:53 lol Jan 12 21:04:56 you guys shared sushi? Jan 12 21:05:55 what happens at devdays stays at devdays Jan 12 21:06:32 haha Jan 12 21:06:47 until it leaks on Engadget Jan 12 21:12:23 gotcha Jan 12 21:12:41 * halfhalo does a dance Jan 12 21:12:55 me too Jan 12 21:29:08 i'm getting sick of the industry trying to kill the wind under hpalm's wings. sprint is now throwing an event in ny on the 7th... greeaaaatt Jan 12 21:29:40 what do they want to talk about? Jan 12 21:30:15 "invitation-only event showcasing Sprint's continued innovation in the wireless industry..." Jan 12 21:30:30 oh... "and another industry first..." Jan 12 21:31:00 they've even hired david blane :P Jan 12 21:31:14 which means their news is probably pretty lackluster Jan 12 21:31:52 evening all Jan 12 21:32:00 "Watch as David Blane magically flashes Froyo on to your Epic 4G" Jan 12 21:32:08 ooooooooo Jan 12 21:32:09 ahhhhhhh Jan 12 21:32:24 hpalm's news better be like Jan 12 21:32:27 goddamn fantastic Jan 12 21:32:36 you know like a new phone on sprint Jan 12 21:32:46 oh my i'm logged in here.. Jan 12 21:32:46 made of an aluminum unibody Jan 12 21:32:53 with "here you go torchie" engraved on the back Jan 12 21:33:13 haha.. must be days since ive had this opened, hope nobody tried to talk to me! ;^) Jan 12 21:37:14 5days for the incursion pack to be finally deployed in eve :D Jan 12 21:37:22 yay progress! http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/EVE-Online_Incursion-Caldar.jpg Jan 12 21:38:44 k best i close this for now (lest i forget) ttfn! Jan 12 21:43:43 hey SineOt Jan 12 21:45:34 Has any indie dev shared download/revenue stats on their webOS apps? I see the occasional Android and iOS sharing figures. Jan 12 21:50:00 morning Jan 12 21:50:19 this may sound trivial, but where are cookies stored on the device? Jan 12 21:50:20 hey Jan 12 21:50:55 dohtem: I would, but it's too embarrassing :P Jan 12 21:51:40 bummer Jan 12 21:51:48 IIRC, it was around 3000€ last year Jan 12 21:52:14 MetaView: Catalog app count? Jan 12 21:52:25 I'll say I've made a LOT more writing apps for other people Jan 12 21:52:36 no, I combined the money I got from Palm Jan 12 21:52:53 ah Jan 12 21:53:35 with a very weak start, some small peak in the summer and a bit high on the last month Jan 12 21:53:44 sales or ads? Jan 12 21:53:46 the summer peak was still the best month Jan 12 21:53:48 sales Jan 12 21:54:06 ads started fine and gone weak over the year Jan 12 21:54:17 http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/android-developer/ <- This is kind of what I was looking for Jan 12 21:55:03 my numbers are far from that Jan 12 21:55:21 And i don't have such a statistic Jan 12 21:55:57 I count sales on the evening, just for fun and could add the money i get from Palm on each month Jan 12 21:57:14 How many apps do you have in the catalog? Jan 12 21:57:18 and I guess my apps never were featured Jan 12 21:58:05 9 for sale Jan 12 22:05:44 MetaView: when you posted to the channel "IIRC, it was around 3000 last year" did you have some crazy chars in there somewhere? Jan 12 22:05:51 i got an [incompatible encoding] Jan 12 22:07:02 euro sign Jan 12 22:09:20 ah, I never even saw the euro sign Jan 12 22:09:25 yes, euro sign Jan 12 22:09:40 I have Latin-1 as encoding Jan 12 22:09:50 you probably UTF8 Jan 12 22:10:08 yup Jan 12 22:10:20 ah Jan 12 22:12:25 does youtube blocking one after too much inquiries? Jan 12 22:12:30 looks like Jan 12 22:12:39 UTF8 supremacy ;x Jan 12 22:12:56 I get a 303 and on the browser they tell me things about copyright violations Jan 12 22:53:56 god i love me some agent k Jan 13 02:24:40 gosh, this 2.0 nda needs to be over Jan 13 02:25:25 yeah no kidding Jan 13 02:26:20 Who knows, maybe it'll go away on the 9th Jan 13 02:26:57 hopefully Jan 13 02:27:05 I have questions I want to ask, and the forums are too slow Jan 13 02:28:31 something else interesting: http://forums.precentral.net/hedami/272672-music-player-remix-poll-app-catalog-price.html ... what would you guys pay for a good music player? Jan 13 02:31:33 Depends almost entirely on how easy it is to use without looking Jan 13 02:31:41 good point Jan 13 02:32:06 Since 99.99% of the time that I'm playing music with my phone, it's while driving Jan 13 02:32:13 hah Jan 13 02:32:17 gesture controls ftw Jan 13 02:32:20 And I hate tiny playback buttons that actually NEED me to look Jan 13 02:32:32 most apps let you tap album art Jan 13 02:32:40 and swipe left to right/right to left to swap songs Jan 13 02:32:45 Yeah, but Slacker doesn't :< Jan 13 02:32:47 ah Jan 13 02:32:57 * SineOt needs to make one hell of an ULTRA PATCH for it or something one of these days. Jan 13 02:33:11 Even if it's just making the playback buttons massive 64x64 monsters Jan 13 02:33:14 my favorite app is drpodder, and that's free...but I liked it so much I donated ;) Jan 13 02:33:35 if I listened to more podcasts I'd love drpodder Jan 13 02:34:11 I never listen as much as I'd like, so I build up quite a backlog Jan 13 02:34:26 I love Slacker just for the quality and the fact that it's not Pandora Jan 13 02:34:29 I'm thinking 2.99 or 3.99 for koto Jan 13 02:35:18 then $5 if it gets video playback Jan 13 02:37:29 I'd probably buy it at 2.99. I think. Jan 13 02:38:49 is that a promise ;) Jan 13 02:38:51 ? Jan 13 02:39:01 I'm thinking 2.99 first launch Jan 13 02:43:41 Depends. :p Jan 13 02:43:50 * SineOt will probably need some input on a website design later... Jan 13 02:44:00 heh, no worries. Just trying to gauge what the average person would be willing to pay Jan 13 02:44:16 I think 2.99 would probably hit that sweet spot. Jan 13 02:44:25 I don't know what other music apps go for. Jan 13 02:44:38 Sounds good. $2.99 unless I change my mind :) Jan 13 02:45:01 I'm thinking of doing a "pro" version of my remote for 1.99 Jan 13 02:45:14 most peeps on music player remix say $4.99... dunno Jan 13 02:45:18 Since all the others that have similar feature sets are like, 4.99$ :T Jan 13 02:45:26 Hmmm. Maybe I should develop catalog apps :) Jan 13 02:45:27 Yeah but Precentral is just a small subset of all users Jan 13 02:45:54 yeah Jan 13 02:46:03 $2.99 it is Jan 13 02:46:03 Just like here is too Jan 13 02:47:26 man squish is one weird looking word Jan 13 02:47:36 I keep typing it and going "nahh... that can't be right" Jan 13 02:47:42 heh **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 13 02:59:58 2011