**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 17 02:59:57 2011 Feb 17 03:11:06 Hmm, I downloaded the 64 bit SDK, but can't find a 64 bit Java for windows. Is there such a beast? Feb 17 03:11:47 there should be Feb 17 03:12:01 that's what I thought Feb 17 03:12:20 can't find it on the Oracle site ... it would be sad to have to go 32bit sdk Feb 17 03:12:29 http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp Feb 17 03:14:14 ah, it's on the java.net site Feb 17 03:15:50 heh, sugardave: it says that a list template is not required in the API docs, but adding one? BOOM SUDDENLY IT WORKS Feb 17 03:16:26 list templates aren't required, but item templates are Feb 17 03:17:00 interesting that you needed it, though Feb 17 03:17:39 actually, looking at it: it doesn't say that your template needs a .html file extension on it :/ Feb 17 03:17:58 "main/rowTemplate" to me doesn't say "hey your file actually has to be rowTemplate.html Feb 17 03:18:18 the template file wants .html extension but the property just wants the name without the extension Feb 17 03:18:22 right Feb 17 03:18:23 yup Feb 17 03:18:39 I was treating it along the lines of say, a src attribute Feb 17 03:18:45 what you get is what it has to be Feb 17 03:18:58 it's some Mojo magic :) Feb 17 03:20:54 yes, yes it is... :p Feb 17 03:21:23 now to figure out how to feed my item template arbitrary values :/ Feb 17 03:22:18 what do you mean? Feb 17 03:22:51 if you want to force some items, you just insert them into the model.items array Feb 17 03:22:58 and then call modelChanged Feb 17 03:23:07 are you using Ares or straight Mojo? Feb 17 03:23:08 The API I'm working against is for a like, DnD character library. It returns stuff like "character": "Some Elf or Something", "age": "845" Feb 17 03:23:12 Straight Mojo Feb 17 03:23:16 alright Feb 17 03:23:48 My template right now is a label on the left, data on the right: just not sure how to say, hey, character and age are both labels, their paired value is the data Feb 17 03:24:02 the template system Feb 17 03:24:34 #{someProperty} will print the value of someProperty if it exists for a particular item in the array Feb 17 03:24:56 #{-somePorperty} will not escape HTML Feb 17 03:25:33 so you're saying I should have like... A ton of templates? #{character}, then #{age}, etc? Feb 17 03:25:40 properties Feb 17 03:25:44 one template Feb 17 03:25:50 ah, so hm Feb 17 03:25:58 but the items in your array will be objects with those properties Feb 17 03:26:11 and as they are rendered, their values will update the list row Feb 17 03:26:16 okay, let me try this out to see if I'm understanding what you're saying Feb 17 03:32:06 hay Feb 17 03:34:46 how's everyone? Feb 17 03:36:24 hm, sugardave: not sure I can really do that :/ Feb 17 03:36:33 sure you can Feb 17 03:36:37 that's how the lists work :D Feb 17 03:36:40 do what? Feb 17 03:36:56 sugardave: let me show you what I'm working with :p Feb 17 03:37:04 sure, pastebin some stuff Feb 17 03:37:25 what we working on? Feb 17 03:37:36 and SineOt, how's the review coming? Feb 17 03:37:53 I'll get it done, PatrickC_Pre :p Feb 17 03:37:57 quit bugging me about Feb 17 03:38:12 I know you'll get it done :) Feb 17 03:38:14 and ok Feb 17 03:38:21 are you done yet? lol Feb 17 03:38:29 ok now I'm done bugging you about it :) Feb 17 03:39:23 anyone heard back from the people about the free Pre2? Feb 17 03:40:20 sugardave: this is example output from the API http://webos.pastebin.com/3ppdUTy7 Feb 17 03:41:46 SineOt: alrighty Feb 17 03:41:51 what's the issue? Feb 17 03:41:53 -ideally- I'd like the list row to say, "Character" as a label, and "Laziz" as the actual content Feb 17 03:42:28 fitting into a template like this http://webos.pastebin.com/xsDETESd Feb 17 03:43:01 sure, let me give you some light Feb 17 03:43:07 I'm sure there's some way to massage it in there, but no idea how Feb 17 03:44:35 this is just for character name, but hopefully will help you: http://webos.pastebin.com/EY06Z02n Feb 17 03:44:57 you would add additional layout for the other properties you want to display in each row Feb 17 03:45:51 so if I wanted them to be in two rows, I could use my template like this? http://webos.pastebin.com/wnpq2cSY Feb 17 03:45:55 wherever you are getting that data sucks for using spaces and special chars in their property names Feb 17 03:46:03 yeah, I know :/ Feb 17 03:46:11 if I could change the stuff the API is spitting out I would Feb 17 03:47:35 SineOt: class palm-row pretty much means that IS the row for each item in the array, so you should really only have one in the item template...BUT you could get away with it maybe with a palm-group around some palm-rows Feb 17 03:48:04 there should really only be one "top-level" palm-row in your item template, imo Feb 17 03:48:05 I'm just trying to wrap my head around how to have each value display itself on its own row Feb 17 03:48:21 no, each item is its own row Feb 17 03:48:35 this would be for displaying a list of characters Feb 17 03:48:48 not a list of a single character's attributes/info Feb 17 03:48:52 ah Feb 17 03:49:01 Well, I want a list of that single character's attributes/info Feb 17 03:49:27 then might want to look at something other than a list Feb 17 03:49:57 you can use Mojo.View.render to apply list-like templating to an arbitray .html file Feb 17 03:50:27 Hm... Okay. Feb 17 03:50:43 so you would make a char-template.html with the layout for attributes like you want, then use Mojo.View.render to apply a particular object to that template Feb 17 03:50:58 something like that, look up Mojo.View.render Feb 17 03:51:06 Yeah, I'm looking at it right now Feb 17 04:09:18 bah. just create an html file with the divs you want, and fill in the blanks from the JSON data. Feb 17 04:10:04 .innerHTML = character.info.GeneralDetails.Age Feb 17 04:10:05 my way is cooler, don't listen to haeffb Feb 17 04:10:22 my way doesn't require learning all about MOjo.View.render Feb 17 04:10:30 not that that's a bad thing Feb 17 04:11:41 character.info["General Details"]["Eye Color"] Feb 17 04:11:51 because of the spaces Feb 17 04:12:05 yeah, that data block SUCKS Feb 17 04:14:11 SineOt: the point being - a list widget is for multiple rows of the same thing. Feb 17 04:14:19 not multiple rows of different things. Feb 17 04:14:41 you can do multiple rows of different things much easier than using a list widget. Feb 17 04:16:49 haeffb: yeah Feb 17 04:16:52 now that I think about it, I don't know why you couldn't have multiple palm-rows in a list item template, though. Feb 17 04:17:02 It duplicates them Feb 17 04:17:14 so every row that gets created for an item... has ever row in it Feb 17 04:17:35 so you will or won't have multiple characters in one screen? Feb 17 04:17:43 will = list widget Feb 17 04:17:45 you can do it as long as there is only one "top-level" palm-row containing the other ones Feb 17 04:17:48 won't = no list widget Feb 17 04:17:52 I like to call it the Highlander Row Feb 17 04:18:09 just one Feb 17 04:18:37 Mojo.view.render really doesn't have much uh, documentation! Feb 17 04:18:47 sugardave: do you even have to have a palm-row? That's just a css style. Feb 17 04:19:10 haeffb: I think you do, because the list widget auto does the row-wrapper stuff around it Feb 17 04:19:27 well, it probably works without it, but works better with it Feb 17 04:20:18 I got weird results when I tried to make my rows be s instead of palm-row divs Feb 17 04:20:19 looks better, for sure Feb 17 04:20:44 SineOt: here's an html file that has multiple rows - http://webos.pastebin.com/vahBSnyT Feb 17 04:20:51 prefs scene from Relego Feb 17 04:21:08 oh, yeah I've written a few of them like that manually Feb 17 04:21:21 so, that will do what you want... ? Feb 17 04:21:36 I'm just looking at Mojo.view.render right now and trying to figure out if it would automate sticking values in with 1 line of code instead of like... 35 Feb 17 04:21:46 yes Feb 17 04:21:48 it will Feb 17 04:22:17 you used it before, sugardave? Feb 17 04:22:24 just have a and then do this.controller.get("eyecolor").innerHTML = myData.[...].eyecolor; Feb 17 04:22:24 yes, I have Feb 17 04:22:44 I'm assuming, reading the docs, that I'd want like... collection: Feb 17 04:23:13 as it would then feed JSON variable through my template, I also assume, filling it like it would have a list with #{item} nomenclature Feb 17 04:23:54 you may have to massage your JSON data, though. Not sure the "Eye Color" will work Feb 17 04:24:22 but, yeah, you create a template just like the list widget row template, then tell it what object you're using to fill the template Feb 17 04:24:47 Hmm, good point. You can't just chain #{["General Info"]["Eye Color"]} Feb 17 04:24:52 unless you can, in which case IDK Feb 17 04:25:11 yes you can use . syntax in the tempalte system Feb 17 04:25:29 you can use ."General Info" ? Feb 17 04:25:30 but with spaces, you might be screwed Feb 17 04:25:44 . syntax breaks with spaces though, but that makes me wonder if you can use square bracket syntax too Feb 17 04:25:44 you can use #{level.sublevel} Feb 17 04:25:46 I don't think it will work Feb 17 04:25:58 but not sure about spaces/quoted strings Feb 17 04:26:17 only one way to find out! Feb 17 04:26:27 now I just need to figure out why this Mojo.View.render isn't working Feb 17 04:26:30 but you can create an object from your JSON data, even if it's just to remove spaces from the property names Feb 17 04:26:40 SineOt: utility function to re-map the messed up properties to proper json formatted ones Feb 17 04:26:43 yep Feb 17 04:27:40 here's an example where I used Mojo.View.render... Feb 17 04:27:51 renderedInfo = Mojo.View.render({object: dashInfo, Feb 17 04:27:52 template: "dashsync/dashsync-item-info"}); Feb 17 04:28:40 and the template: http://webos.pastebin.com/YghMV6eZ Feb 17 04:29:48 and where dashInfo = {id : "123", title: "A Title", message: "This is a message"} Feb 17 04:30:24 haeffb: thanks Feb 17 04:31:22 and then... Feb 17 04:31:25 infoElement = this.controller.get("dashsyncinfo"); Feb 17 04:31:25 infoElement.innerHTML = renderedInfo; Feb 17 04:31:53 so I'm still doing the innerHTML thing to get the render into my scene Feb 17 04:31:58 http://webos.pastebin.com/FMTwcc2Q Feb 17 04:32:27 that one is a little more involved, shows formatters (and an embedded additional call to Mojo.View.render) Feb 17 04:33:51 * haeffb remembers mentioning to sugardave one time that he likes to make things complicated. :) Feb 17 04:34:03 it was necessary Feb 17 04:34:06 and it kicks ass :P Feb 17 04:34:11 lol Feb 17 04:35:09 return 'BOOYA'; // is awesome Feb 17 04:35:15 heh Feb 17 04:36:40 SineOt: I will leave you in sugardave's capable hands. Just try to keep him reined in a bit. Night guys. Feb 17 04:36:52 night haeffb, thanks for the help Feb 17 04:37:53 well, I've got it rendering the list properly... But it's not putting in the JSON properly Feb 17 04:38:06 night haeffb Feb 17 04:39:48 SineOt: I'm not surprised that you're going to have problems with that JSON Feb 17 04:40:26 I'm trying with simple things right now: stuff like character Feb 17 04:40:55 so are you trying in the List or from Mojo.View.render? Feb 17 04:41:19 Mojo.View.render Feb 17 04:41:41 alright, what does your html look like? Feb 17 04:46:43 er, hold on. having some odd problems here Feb 17 04:47:48 suddenly broke the Mojo.View.render :p Feb 17 04:51:19 yeah don't know what happened here :/ Feb 17 04:53:41 No errors, nothin', just not rendering right Feb 17 04:54:17 * sugardave waits for some pastebins. Feb 17 04:54:20 :D Feb 17 04:54:24 You might find http://youtube.com/webosinternals interesting ... Feb 17 04:55:45 rwhitby: that is cool as hell Feb 17 04:56:38 sugardave: http://webos.pastebin.com/j1Bb4u8r Feb 17 04:56:52 shows the AJAX call success with the JSON, then the template itself Feb 17 04:57:00 it just... decided to not render any more Feb 17 04:58:55 you already had this code working once, though? Feb 17 04:59:39 yup, which is why I'm going "wtf" Feb 17 05:00:32 * SineOt adds a ton of logging statements Feb 17 05:00:45 hmm, well, I would tend to think it's the Ajax response, then...can you responseJSON.character? Feb 17 05:00:48 yeah Feb 17 05:01:04 is discription spelled korrektly? Feb 17 05:01:34 it is now! :U Feb 17 05:01:39 no, but it won't break stuff :D Feb 17 05:01:55 rwhitby: no video plays for me in firefox Feb 17 05:02:19 mebbe my browers is broken Feb 17 05:02:27 sugardave: I think it's fine, I can view the rendered content Feb 17 05:02:32 it's just not actually PUSHING it Feb 17 05:02:55 I am confused now Feb 17 05:03:05 me too! Feb 17 05:03:21 this.controller.get("characterInfo"); this should pull a reference to the DIV I have, right? Feb 17 05:03:34 assuming that is bound properly, yeah Feb 17 05:04:45 where can you see the content? doesn't that mean it is working? Feb 17 05:05:06 Mojo.Log.info(characterInfo); spits out divs, etc Feb 17 05:05:18 since characterInfo is the "rendered" content Feb 17 05:05:25 yeah, but is it accurate Feb 17 05:05:32 or just empty divs that won't show anything? Feb 17 05:05:39 yep, restarted firefox and it played fine. Feb 17 05:05:46 can you see character name, etc? Feb 17 05:05:53 * haeffb lols at oil rushing around, getting into everything. Feb 17 05:05:56 yup Feb 17 05:06:03 the content that's getting spat in the log is correct Feb 17 05:06:07 lol Feb 17 05:06:14 haeffb: I was thinking the same thing, like "Noooooo oil!" Feb 17 05:06:21 it's just... Not spitting the content to the div! Feb 17 05:06:27 SineOt: okay, then try characterInfoContainer.update(characterInfo) Feb 17 05:06:55 instead of innerHTML = Feb 17 05:07:03 just to see Feb 17 05:07:27 * haeffb suspects this.controller.get Feb 17 05:07:31 yeah Feb 17 05:07:39 but he said it was working before Feb 17 05:07:45 they all say that Feb 17 05:07:49 :) Feb 17 05:07:50 truth Feb 17 05:07:59 "I swear I didn't change anything!" Feb 17 05:08:02 hey now, it was working :p Feb 17 05:08:17 and now it's working again! Feb 17 05:08:40 (...now that I undid what I changed before...) Feb 17 05:08:50 haha Feb 17 05:08:55 * OrithmaFelus snickers. Feb 17 05:09:19 * haeffb means... yay! SineOt!!! Feb 17 05:09:26 nah, I just switched it over to $('blah') Feb 17 05:09:41 I swear, cross my heart, I had been using this.controller.get before :p Feb 17 05:10:33 heh. does $('blah') work without .bind(this) ? Feb 17 05:11:07 yup Feb 17 05:11:15 cheater! Feb 17 05:11:44 yeah, but wait 'till he goes multi-stage and $('blah') breaks. Who'll be laughing then? Feb 17 05:12:09 I will, since this app won't need to be multi-stage :p Feb 17 05:12:18 :) Feb 17 05:12:54 ok, now I really am off. SineOt, sorry for having fun at your expense. Feel free to laugh at me as often as you like... Feb 17 05:13:02 haeffb: no worries~ **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 17 07:32:20 2011 Feb 17 09:51:35 joetweeply: already received a response from hp? Feb 17 09:59:43 zbenjamin|away: not yet no Feb 17 11:56:02 Guys, I know this is not a support channel. But did anyone of you encounter lots of "Check SIM. SOS only" errors? Seems the net is full w/ them.. Feb 17 12:01:03 nope Feb 17 12:36:24 darklajid, i do sometimes Feb 17 12:36:49 darklajid, my solution for this is to reboot my phone Feb 17 12:37:35 noriX: Thanks. Hmm.. Got the device for two days, happened three times. Unacceptable, thinking about sending it back. I just want to find out if that's a general issue. Feb 17 12:38:18 noriX: Rebooting "works", but being unavailable via mail and voice on my work phone, unnoticed until I check it, is not an option :) Feb 17 12:39:02 darklajid, it doesnt happen that often to me, maybe once in a week Feb 17 12:40:03 actually i thought it's because my sim card is old/dirty/broken ... Feb 17 12:40:15 what carrier do you have ? Feb 17 12:58:29 noriX: Vodafone. Feb 17 12:59:01 The SIM is less than 6 month old and works fine in HTC Hero, HTC Desire, simple feature phones.. So for me it's not the SIM, I guess. Feb 17 13:09:26 never had that happen myself Feb 17 13:26:09 I have seen it on my old pre, but I guess it is my own fault because I swtiched Comm Board and I think I scratched the board :S Feb 17 13:26:44 clumsy fingers ;) Feb 17 13:26:50 Heh. Okay, this one is supposed to be new though :) Feb 17 13:27:48 do you other sim cards you could try to switch with? Feb 17 13:28:06 just to make sure it isn't the simcard Feb 17 13:28:37 or the combination of the phone and simcard Feb 17 13:31:32 melchiorsen_: Only this sim, unfortunately. I know that the sim is fine, since I used it in several other phones before (and I switched back to an old HTC Hero for now as well, works as expected). Combination: Hmmm.. Maybe? Is that even possible? Feb 17 13:35:34 I don't know. imagine that the simcard is just 0,2mm off in the cut and the simcard reader in the pre is more picky than the HTC? could happen? maybe unlikely. Feb 17 13:36:13 anyway I would ask for a new pre if it happens as often as you say. Feb 17 13:41:34 Thanks for the support. Now let me test the support of this tiny online shop then.. Feb 17 13:49:59 good luck :) Feb 17 14:20:37 The YouTube player returns "There was error playing the file" on all videos. I restarted phone. Is this just me or everyone? Pre+ on V. Feb 17 14:21:24 Uninstalling recent patches now... Feb 17 14:28:09 god morning #webos Feb 17 14:28:27 er...good morning, too. Feb 17 14:28:57 morning haeffb Feb 17 14:29:00 haeffb_pre: can you do me a favor... does YouTube work OK for you on your Pre? Feb 17 14:29:34 Mine stopped working this morning and I just want to make sure it's just me. Feb 17 14:30:21 have you restarted? Feb 17 14:30:30 yes Feb 17 14:30:35 twice Feb 17 14:30:52 about to start uninstalling newly installed patches. Feb 17 14:31:13 It's really do. My other "favor" streaming site works fine. Feb 17 14:31:25 *"favorite*" Feb 17 14:31:36 is it just "loading" or how do it not work? Feb 17 14:32:05 "There was an error playing the file" Feb 17 14:32:21 when you launch youtube app? Feb 17 14:32:32 yes. Does YouTube work OK for you? Feb 17 14:32:53 1 sec Feb 17 14:33:45 "loadin" Feb 17 14:34:36 so it works? Feb 17 14:34:58 I just want to make sure it's only my phone Feb 17 14:34:59 i can startup the youtube app ye Feb 17 14:35:08 and watch a video? Feb 17 14:35:19 no the scrim just keep runing Feb 17 14:35:25 mine keeps loading too Feb 17 14:35:30 hmm Feb 17 14:35:38 so it is not only you :) Feb 17 14:35:43 cool! Feb 17 14:35:51 guess so :p Feb 17 14:35:54 I think it's news worthy! Feb 17 14:36:06 you can tell precentral ;PO Feb 17 14:36:06 twitter here I come! Feb 17 14:36:07 :) Feb 17 14:36:12 yer or twit Feb 17 14:36:17 tweeeeeeeet Feb 17 14:36:20 maybe cc adora? Feb 17 14:36:27 scoinva: does not work for me either Feb 17 14:36:30 i get an error Feb 17 14:36:31 anyone else? Feb 17 14:36:34 adora? Feb 17 14:36:36 and ? Feb 17 14:36:39 palm Feb 17 14:36:41 webos Feb 17 14:36:50 precentral Feb 17 14:36:55 yer Feb 17 14:36:59 but I wonder if it's true on other mobile devices. Feb 17 14:37:22 Google did say they were moving to WebM or some other codec. Feb 17 14:37:28 With every video? webm switch maybe? Feb 17 14:37:31 Ah, I'm too slow Feb 17 14:38:11 hmmmm... I don't want Google or HP to get bad press. Feb 17 14:38:43 I'm sure it probably going to be known soon all over. Feb 17 14:39:58 tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet Feb 17 14:40:19 I send a basic one to adora Feb 17 14:40:24 oki :) Feb 17 14:40:29 I figure she can do damage control from there. Feb 17 14:40:54 hotdp... maybe you can hit the others. Feb 17 14:42:42 done Feb 17 14:42:54 :) Feb 17 14:43:09 i dont think its palm Feb 17 14:43:15 i think it is google doing something Feb 17 14:43:59 agreed. Feb 17 14:45:24 Should we post on webos-internals channel? Feb 17 14:45:45 i think it will be fine Feb 17 15:01:13 scoinva: i missed the conversation, what is google doing? Feb 17 15:12:10 hay Feb 17 15:12:22 zsoc_web: YouTube app stopped working. Feb 17 15:12:32 * PatrickC_Pre will be lurking Feb 17 15:12:44 what stopped working about it? Feb 17 15:13:02 try pulling up a video. Feb 17 15:13:13 what does it do? Feb 17 15:13:25 try pulling up a video. Feb 17 15:13:43 please Feb 17 15:14:32 the search stopped working? or when you tap a video it won't pull up the description Feb 17 15:14:35 scoinva: interesting Feb 17 15:14:52 PatrickC_Pre: files don't play back Feb 17 15:15:00 yes Feb 17 15:15:02 ohh ok Feb 17 15:15:05 hmmm Feb 17 15:15:15 scoinva: do you know why? if you get terminal access, you can restart mediaserver with gst logs enabled and get the full gstreamer error messages Feb 17 15:15:19 just to confirm it's a codec thing Feb 17 15:15:38 zsoc_wed: dude... I'm not that smart. :) Feb 17 15:15:44 can he use the "Ternimal" app? Feb 17 15:15:46 but I hear ya. Feb 17 15:15:56 sup PatrickC_Pre Feb 17 15:15:59 hay joebpre Feb 17 15:16:17 I have the terminal app. Feb 17 15:16:34 maybe zsoc_web can talk you through ut Feb 17 15:16:38 *it* Feb 17 15:16:42 I am certainly interested to understand the root cause. Feb 17 15:16:56 I don't know much about terminaling in Feb 17 15:17:06 Can't use terminal app because itll end up being like 3000000 lines you have to pipe into a file lolol Feb 17 15:17:13 I think he it's a webos wide issue. Someone certainly need to troubleshoot the issue. Feb 17 15:17:15 the "root cause" you mean hacking it? Feb 17 15:17:15 I can either do it after work, or walk something through it. Feb 17 15:17:42 PatrickC_Pre: no, just getting an accurate log Feb 17 15:17:49 ha. no... like ITIL Problem Management > Root Cause Analysis Feb 17 15:17:51 oh ok lol Feb 17 15:18:30 lol, I should have known you had it hacked when you said that you had Terminal :p Feb 17 15:22:12 Google RealTime "youtube codec changed" shows it's a boarder YouTube issue. Feb 17 15:22:39 "Did Google's video codec change break YouTube video playback on Facebook (thru Safari) on iPads? It's no longer supported." Feb 17 15:22:45 I'll see if mine is acting up Feb 17 15:23:00 I'm on 2.0 though Feb 17 15:23:09 you're probably see the same issue. Feb 17 15:23:31 I wonder if it breaks AndroidOS apps. Feb 17 15:23:34 yep Feb 17 15:23:41 PatrickC_Pre: you on verizon Feb 17 15:23:55 have you tried downloading the video and playing it back Feb 17 15:24:01 joebpre, no sprint Feb 17 15:24:12 this is a development phone :) Feb 17 15:24:34 does everyone here get a dev phone? :) Feb 17 15:24:47 most did, as most are developers :) Feb 17 15:25:05 i did not get a dev phone Feb 17 15:25:18 did you request one? Feb 17 15:26:04 within the new announcement, yes Feb 17 15:26:31 for this developer phone discount stuff, this is just limited to US developers Feb 17 15:26:42 I requested one from the new announcement too :) Feb 17 15:26:56 I ddnt get one of those Feb 17 15:27:02 I got the free Pre+ Feb 17 15:27:17 free pre+? Feb 17 15:27:21 nice Feb 17 15:27:30 yep Feb 17 15:27:42 now I hope to get the FreePre2 :) Feb 17 15:27:45 nice... i just got my pre-, and am developing on that one Feb 17 15:27:53 sometimes when I'm guesturing my dosent respond or lags Feb 17 15:27:59 i'd love to have a pre2 at hands... can't get it in germany Feb 17 15:28:01 anyone else ? Feb 17 15:28:04 I only had a Pixi Feb 17 15:28:29 and the non-responsiveness is a known issue (to users) Feb 17 15:28:46 the Pre-/+ are just slow in general Feb 17 15:29:04 unless you ramp them up to 1.2 GHz Feb 17 15:32:24 hmm ... yea but there goes battery PatrickC_Pre if I ramp it up Feb 17 15:34:01 not necicarily Feb 17 15:39:07 do we know if the pre3 will be compatible w/ the current generation of touchstones? Feb 17 15:40:11 idk Feb 17 15:40:45 I changed my name also so they don't recognize me Feb 17 15:41:18 summatusmentis: I think they used an older touchstone in the demo Feb 17 15:41:38 I'm on 5 channels :p Feb 17 15:42:15 summatusmentis: with palm logo etc Feb 17 15:43:05 dasunsrule32: what happens when you play a vid ? Feb 17 15:43:08 it works? Feb 17 15:43:30 yea saw that :/ Feb 17 15:44:31 destinal-work: so it's safe to assume yes? I just bought a cheap one from vzw Feb 17 15:45:08 summatusmentis: yeah, I'd say it's safe Feb 17 15:45:29 cool Feb 17 15:45:32 you don't get the cooler features of the new TS but it'll charge Feb 17 15:45:38 I mean, it's $15 if not, but whatever Feb 17 15:45:50 destinal-work: cooler features? Feb 17 15:45:57 cooler features being "knowing which one is where"? Feb 17 15:46:34 summatusmentis: location based profiles and I don't know if there's anything else that can be done Feb 17 15:47:13 presumably w/ a location based profile in the future, I could just set a default "non-location based" profile and use that for a single location Feb 17 15:47:34 do we know if that feature is dependent on new touchstone tech, or if it's just webos stuff Feb 17 15:47:52 it wouldn't surprise me if old touchstone tech still had a unique identifier Feb 17 15:51:16 welcome back joebpre :) Feb 17 15:51:48 thanks .. went from wifi to 3g Feb 17 15:52:34 lol Feb 17 15:52:37 bbl Feb 17 15:52:43 time for school :/ Feb 17 15:53:13 will possibly need help with apps later though ;) Feb 17 15:53:32 just say my name if you need me :) Feb 17 15:55:18 lol Feb 17 15:55:41 say my name Feb 17 15:55:52 stupid boss Feb 17 15:55:55 but don't ware it out ;) Feb 17 15:55:58 lol dawm Feb 17 15:56:01 just called me asking if i was at work... Feb 17 15:56:11 im like, no? Feb 17 15:56:19 why not :) Feb 17 15:56:30 work is the best place to be! lol Feb 17 15:56:38 he asked me if i could come in and cover him today, but he would get back to me to let me know for sure Feb 17 15:56:43 well he never got back to me, so i never came in Feb 17 15:57:01 nice Feb 17 15:57:02 guess some shit went down and a manager needed to be there.. oh well not my fault Feb 17 15:57:02 lol Feb 17 15:57:15 who you work for? Feb 17 15:57:23 dawm: where you work ? or is it g14 classified ? Feb 17 15:57:36 i work for a company thats contracted by a major airline Feb 17 15:57:54 sweet Feb 17 15:58:07 nice .. bif ballin Feb 17 15:58:08 s/bif/big Feb 17 15:58:12 yeah right Feb 17 15:58:46 airline pays the company, company takes their cut, company pays the employees.. Feb 17 15:58:48 too many hands Feb 17 15:59:10 i make $12hr, been there 6yrs and im a supervisor/manager Feb 17 15:59:16 hell yeah.. we should start make a living with app development Feb 17 15:59:25 i made $12hr in 2yrs at my old job back in WI Feb 17 15:59:48 oh yeah, no benifits Feb 17 15:59:57 if we get a bigger userbase, we will make a living off development :) Feb 17 16:00:04 we need new users Feb 17 16:00:10 yea Feb 17 16:00:17 webOS PC users Feb 17 16:00:17 you can only buy an app once Feb 17 16:00:36 which stinks haha Feb 17 16:01:02 we can make a framework that enables the user to pay a monthly rent for using it Feb 17 16:01:16 I have seen 1 pre in the wild and it was a year ago it was a palm pre ... now the guy has android phone Feb 17 16:01:30 i've seen some on girls in the train here in germany Feb 17 16:01:53 joetweeply: of my two friends with smartphones, we all have a palm pre Feb 17 16:01:56 one of them removed all icons from the bar and just left the arrow icon there, looked weird Feb 17 16:02:06 or rather, of the three of us total with smartphones Feb 17 16:02:08 at least 3 people at my church have a webOS phone, other then my 2 and my dad's Feb 17 16:02:26 and 1 person other then me and my dad have it at my old church Feb 17 16:02:40 so at lease 4 people I know support webOS :) Feb 17 16:03:39 wife won't get pre cause she said it looks cheap Feb 17 16:03:51 get her a Pre2 Feb 17 16:04:08 it came out today :) Feb 17 16:04:58 pfft ... she would get my pre + before that happens Feb 17 16:05:06 lol Feb 17 16:05:12 I'm on Att Feb 17 16:05:55 unlocked Feb 17 16:05:59 $250 Feb 17 16:06:04 or free :) Feb 17 16:06:11 (will provide a link shortly) Feb 17 16:06:13 she dosent like spending money Feb 17 16:06:22 http://m.precentral.net/hp-extends-free-developer-pre-2-program-all-qualified-developers Feb 17 16:06:28 that is free Pre2 Feb 17 16:08:08 I can't program remember Feb 17 16:08:22 weak Feb 17 16:08:22 awesome Feb 17 16:08:27 you just have to believe in urself! Feb 17 16:08:31 :) Feb 17 16:08:37 ive got a rotating and animated block spinning on my canvas ;D Feb 17 16:08:39 and remember 1 word Feb 17 16:08:45 Ares Feb 17 16:08:46 pfft and start with a hello world Feb 17 16:08:53 * sugardave kicks dawm in the nads. Feb 17 16:08:55 fine Feb 17 16:09:07 do you think palm will show pitty on me with a hello world Feb 17 16:09:14 start with helloworld, and then do the flickrsearch and then do Angry Birds Feb 17 16:09:29 they'll probably do this for a few months Feb 17 16:09:35 you can't make Angry Birds in Ares, good luck Feb 17 16:09:43 clear out inventory for the Veer/Pre3 Feb 17 16:09:50 sugardave, and only 28 lines of code (which includes whitespacing, and hanging braces) Feb 17 16:09:52 sugardave shhhhh Feb 17 16:10:05 dawm: I can't wait to steal your code for examples :D Feb 17 16:10:06 he doesn't know that :) Feb 17 16:10:21 how is Koto Player? Feb 17 16:10:24 sugardave, https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js Feb 17 16:10:28 any onehere use it? Feb 17 16:10:37 I will do a hello world / hello world pt2 ... when they ask for the list of upcoming apps I will be like there is a hello world 3 and 4 coming soon Feb 17 16:10:44 just found it, and not only does it work well, its actively being worked on Feb 17 16:10:55 what is that dawm? Feb 17 16:10:57 dawm: sweet Feb 17 16:11:04 canvas/dom sprite library Feb 17 16:11:11 * PatrickC_Pre on the pre and don't feel like firing up the computer Feb 17 16:11:16 http://batiste.dosimple.ch/sprite.js/tests/test_sprites.html Feb 17 16:11:16 ahhh Feb 17 16:11:19 thats an example Feb 17 16:11:21 I want more Ares YouTube videos. Feb 17 16:11:24 * PatrickC_Pre doesn't know what that is :) Feb 17 16:11:39 I never used ares youtube vids Feb 17 16:11:45 I did all online tutorials Feb 17 16:12:08 dawm, that's awesome Feb 17 16:12:16 canvas backend requires more resources Feb 17 16:12:21 yeah, those assholes that do ares need to make more videos. who is with me? Feb 17 16:12:30 * joebpre loves youtube Feb 17 16:12:30 no shit Feb 17 16:12:35 dave, cloudhopper is all canvas Feb 17 16:12:53 dave, make some youtube vids Feb 17 16:12:58 if my kid wants to learn something she immediately goes to youtube. Feb 17 16:13:17 PatrickC_Pre: I know as much about Ares as you do about Mojo Feb 17 16:13:25 lo Feb 17 16:13:29 hahah Feb 17 16:13:29 *lol* Feb 17 16:13:39 scoinva: so do I ... scoinva youtube + emulator = my palm pre + I'm on :-) Feb 17 16:13:43 wow, you like know everything then! lol Feb 17 16:13:46 same.. i cant make apps in ares, but i can in notepad Feb 17 16:13:58 I use notepad++ Feb 17 16:14:00 * sugardave highfives dawm. Feb 17 16:14:03 soon much better Feb 17 16:14:14 its gonna be sweet writing apps on the touchpad :) Feb 17 16:14:20 what about me sugardave, I made a working SDK app :) Feb 17 16:14:24 I know Feb 17 16:14:27 ENYO FTW Feb 17 16:14:34 wow 69% battery with 2 hours usage Feb 17 16:15:02 how hot is it running? Feb 17 16:15:19 mattsmcnulty: screw the Ares videos until the new Ares comes out Feb 17 16:15:24 I miss intellisense and unit testing when I program WebOS. Feb 17 16:15:25 * joebpre checks govnah Feb 17 16:15:27 agreed Feb 17 16:15:37 I want ares 2.0 Feb 17 16:15:46 I want ares 3.0 Feb 17 16:16:00 PatrickC_Pre: 30°c Feb 17 16:16:01 and joebpre, what the brightness setting Feb 17 16:16:10 I want webos 3.0 for my pre+ Feb 17 16:16:12 mattsmcnulty: can you confirm or deny a plan to provide an Eclipse plugin for Enyo apps and/or node services? Feb 17 16:16:15 all the way down PatrickC_Pre Feb 17 16:16:20 wow Feb 17 16:16:28 how much life it have? Feb 17 16:16:31 sugardave: can you confirm or deny whether people want it? Feb 17 16:16:39 _I_ want it :D Feb 17 16:16:48 PatrickC_Pre: how do I find out ? Feb 17 16:16:50 ok, that's one for eclipse. anyone else? Feb 17 16:16:56 Dr. Battery Feb 17 16:17:02 come on people! Feb 17 16:17:07 I'll support sugardave Feb 17 16:17:14 I use eclipse sometimes Feb 17 16:17:21 no no no - no sympathy eclipse votes Feb 17 16:17:24 and we'll just say joebpre wants it Feb 17 16:17:33 I do use eclipse though :) Feb 17 16:17:33 I have all these other damn projects just sitting in there Feb 17 16:17:59 I use it when I'm the Win7 machine Feb 17 16:18:03 PatrickC_Pre: when I use dr battery and recalibrate it always stops at 58% Feb 17 16:18:05 I dont think it is terribly popular among web devs. Not saying we'll not support it or anything, but I'd rather focus on editor-agnostic tools that can do the packaging/etc and ares Feb 17 16:18:05 Can you write apps for the touchpad... on the touchpad? Feb 17 16:18:21 on the WinXP machine, I use notepad++ though Feb 17 16:18:51 joebpre, go to the "Health" section of Dr Batt Feb 17 16:19:00 mattsmcnulty: sure, I just can't use Ares on this machine :( Feb 17 16:19:01 PatrickC_Pre: I'm also on screenstate 500/800 Feb 17 16:19:10 anyone have strong opinions on adobe air? not for on-device, but like if some tools used air (just a thought) would that freak you out? Feb 17 16:19:15 sugardave why not? Feb 17 16:19:43 what is the health of the battery joebpre? Feb 17 16:20:03 PatrickC_Pre: unknown, my chromium browsers don't think I have a Java plugin installed, and FF will blow up about 5 minutes into using it Feb 17 16:20:19 Safari Feb 17 16:20:29 nyet Feb 17 16:20:32 PatrickC_Pre: let me reinstall dr. battery last time it was at 100% Feb 17 16:20:32 I use Iron Feb 17 16:20:32 I use Chrome and FF Feb 17 16:20:49 but FF4 don't Work with ares Feb 17 16:20:50 :( Feb 17 16:20:56 Iron? Feb 17 16:20:57 mattsmcnulty: I'm not anti-AIR, but I may dislike features that rely on it 100% when it could be done using a different method. Feb 17 16:21:32 mattsmcnulty: are you referring to Ext.Air? Feb 17 16:22:15 PatrickC_Pre: health is 100% Feb 17 16:22:17 Air must die Feb 17 16:22:17 nope, just let's say we did a packaging/installation for enyo apps tool, in enyo, with an air container - so there is a gui to build and install apps in a click. would people freak that it is air, or just be happy there is a cool tool Feb 17 16:22:25 wow joebpre.... Feb 17 16:22:29 I don't know Feb 17 16:23:07 torchie, I guess you are on your nook? Feb 17 16:23:08 * joebpre is going into wallgreens Feb 17 16:23:16 mattsmcnulty: to me sounds cool, but I don't know anything about air Feb 17 16:23:19 have fun joe :) Feb 17 16:23:35 just a container for local web apps. gives em file system access, etc Feb 17 16:23:42 I don't know anything about air either, so that makes 2 :) Feb 17 16:23:48 have fun with what? Feb 17 16:23:56 dont know is better than OMFG no way to adobe Feb 17 16:24:12 joetweeply, I was talking to joebpre Feb 17 16:24:54 well not anymore Feb 17 16:25:01 lol Feb 17 16:25:03 meh, there is only room for a few bigot/zealot responses in me...anti-MS, anti-AT&T Feb 17 16:25:19 anti-MS? Feb 17 16:25:22 why? Feb 17 16:25:30 I hate Bill Gates Feb 17 16:25:34 MS is coolguy now because phone of windows Feb 17 16:25:37 waaaaa Feb 17 16:25:41 nyet Feb 17 16:25:44 bill gates is probably like the most chill guy Feb 17 16:25:49 mattsmcnulty: what is wrong with the current way of packaging/installing apps? palm-install is pretty straight forward... I mean developers being afraid of command lines if pretty oxymoronic Feb 17 16:25:59 but Steve Jobs helped Bill make MS Feb 17 16:26:05 was just an example Feb 17 16:26:16 Fear and Loathing in Silicon Valley Feb 17 16:26:32 mattsmcnulty: is it really more a tool for end-users to install apps? Feb 17 16:26:37 ah Feb 17 16:26:56 was just using packaging as an example Feb 17 16:27:06 without giving away future tools Feb 17 16:27:21 future tools Feb 17 16:27:31 must learn more... Feb 17 16:27:33 "matt mcnulty doesn't deny Adobe AIR app packaging for webOS" Feb 17 16:27:52 sounds like a good P|C post Feb 17 16:27:57 say what? Feb 17 16:28:11 mattsmcnulty: I see. Well my feelings are, I suppose, if it helps you with user or developer relations go for it, but I (and I'm sure other internals members) would be disappointed if core dev tools started being mucked up in third party binary platforms like AIR Feb 17 16:28:13 they only like posting when they have silly pictures of me Feb 17 16:28:33 low level stuff would still be there Feb 17 16:28:41 mattsmcnulty: Then go for it. I love fancy. Feb 17 16:28:50 that is the key for me, as long as I can still do the command line stuff Feb 17 16:29:20 matsmcnully, can I have a webOS PC yet? Feb 17 16:29:38 you technically have one Feb 17 16:29:49 What resolution does the tablet run at? Was that spec released? Feb 17 16:29:55 set up your emulator with host mode and you can run your installed apps in your browser Feb 17 16:29:58 1024x768 Feb 17 16:29:59 well, most of them Feb 17 16:30:29 mattsmcnulty: is that the /maximum/ resolution, or the /only/ resolution? I assume the resolution is fixed like other webos versions? Feb 17 16:30:33 * PatrickC_Pre sugardave already has a webOS PC Feb 17 16:30:36 only res Feb 17 16:30:58 PatrickC_Pre: so there you can, you can have one that runs are 1024x768 :p Feb 17 16:31:10 s/are/at/... damn drugs Feb 17 16:31:14 is it possible to use current ares stuff with the new enyo or is that incompatible? Feb 17 16:31:27 zsoc_web, well, when we get the SDK Feb 17 16:31:28 current ares uses mojo widgets Feb 17 16:31:43 oh, okay then Feb 17 16:31:45 any recommendations for govnah aka battery saving settings precentral has many forms but I've tried most and they don't work Feb 17 16:31:49 my "webOS PC" currently runs at 1359 x 731 Feb 17 16:31:50 when do we start the Ares beta program? Feb 17 16:32:10 what's the ares beta program? Feb 17 16:32:16 wow sugardave Feb 17 16:32:17 mattsmcnulty: I suppose I should just read the docs instead of asking stupid questions, but Enyo is extJS-"like", or it's extJS? Feb 17 16:32:21 move to the bay area and work for me and it will be sooner Feb 17 16:32:38 enyo kicks other toolkits' asses Feb 17 16:32:45 joetweeply, hopefully they will let Early Access Program members have early access to Ares Feb 17 16:32:46 enyo face? Feb 17 16:33:23 mattsmcnulty: interesting. The last time I heard anyone hp/palm so excited about something was Javascript Middleware.. and that turned out pretty good. Feb 17 16:33:24 then i just hope my early access mail will finally arrive soon Feb 17 16:33:48 it should. there was a huge backlog chuq is working through Feb 17 16:33:49 oh, chuq said he's taking a 2 month vacation Feb 17 16:34:02 stop fooling with me Feb 17 16:34:05 and not answering any email for the time he's on vacation Feb 17 16:34:11 lol I'm just kidding :) Feb 17 16:34:24 okay.... so back to waiting mode Feb 17 16:34:37 yep Feb 17 16:34:37 any more info on the new free device program for qualified developers? Feb 17 16:34:39 when did you sign up? thought he was mostly caught up Feb 17 16:35:03 well i sent out the second mail 2 days ago Feb 17 16:35:05 * PatrickC_Pre wants a Touchpad dev device Feb 17 16:35:30 yea, and news on the Free Pre2 program? Feb 17 16:35:38 I wonder if me learning /wanting to make webos apps will help me qualify for a pre 2 Feb 17 16:35:53 dunno Feb 17 16:35:55 should I think Feb 17 16:36:01 I've been getting pre2s for devs on here for months Feb 17 16:36:08 you just had to be nice and express a need Feb 17 16:36:09 i hope being in germany is qualification enough... no pre2s over here Feb 17 16:36:47 nice? well shit... Feb 17 16:37:17 if you have to be nice, sugardave won't get one Feb 17 16:37:25 he blames oil for everything Feb 17 16:37:26 who would then? Feb 17 16:37:35 me :) Feb 17 16:37:36 * joebpre is at 57% Feb 17 16:37:41 I'm nice to everyone Feb 17 16:37:52 5 minutes ago you fooled me Feb 17 16:38:15 you fell for it lol Feb 17 16:38:32 well i miss out on the gene to get sarcasm Feb 17 16:38:44 lol Feb 17 16:39:52 I need to stop talking and start school :p Feb 17 16:39:54 bbl Feb 17 16:40:00 have fun Feb 17 16:40:09 I'll try ;) Feb 17 16:40:17 i'm eager to start developing for enyo as soon as i get my mail Feb 17 16:40:30 already worked on a concept, basic model and views Feb 17 16:43:21 mattsmcnulty: I want eclipse tools. Feb 17 16:44:02 and I had never used eclipse prior to webOS dev Feb 17 16:44:04 Hello! Feb 17 16:44:34 i stopped using eclipse Feb 17 16:44:37 i never really used javascript prior to webOS dev :) Feb 17 16:44:38 ares is great for frontend Feb 17 16:45:12 here we go again ;) Feb 17 16:45:24 dawm word.... real hardcore javascript was also new for me with mojo Feb 17 16:45:26 joetweeply: is a Ares preacher, the only one i know Feb 17 16:45:26 Does the webOS SDK support sockets now? Feb 17 16:45:37 :P Feb 17 16:45:50 heh yeah maybe Feb 17 16:45:54 * joebpre switches to wifi and wiata to ping out Feb 17 16:46:12 s/wiata/waits Feb 17 16:46:39 i think ares is just underestimated Feb 17 16:47:33 how do you sign up for the developer program and not need to enter paypal information? Feb 17 16:47:52 you don't...? Feb 17 16:48:08 you can enter in my paypal information Feb 17 16:48:14 you just have to sell your app Feb 17 16:48:17 so i can make money Feb 17 16:48:49 cool, give me your login and password and I'll get right on it ;) Feb 17 16:48:50 man when i signed up for the dev program i had to pay the fee back then Feb 17 16:49:12 I thought they refunded everyone? Feb 17 16:49:19 yeah they did Feb 17 16:49:28 but back then i did not know that Feb 17 16:49:30 so whats da matta? Feb 17 16:49:47 none, i just shared an anecdote of my developer life Feb 17 16:50:37 Anivrom, the recently returned, is the OG Ares pusher in #webos Feb 17 16:50:52 I absolutely refuse to give paypal another cent. and they'll be damned if they give them my credit card again Feb 17 16:51:16 lol Feb 17 16:51:20 i locked my paypal account Feb 17 16:51:50 i don't use services run by criminals Feb 17 16:52:25 I stopped using mine years ago. but it won't let me pass go without a current credit card Feb 17 16:52:44 I've still got $10 locked in it somewhere Feb 17 16:54:06 ive used paypal since it opened back in 2001, never had a single issue Feb 17 16:54:14 is it just me always getting "infinite loop" messages in the dev forums? Feb 17 16:55:23 im back Feb 17 16:55:25 :) Feb 17 16:55:34 anyone here heard of MediaFire? Feb 17 16:55:35 you know it Feb 17 16:55:58 dawm: As a contractor paypal was my payment gateway. As the holder of all your income they can screw you good Feb 17 16:56:22 joetweeply, was that about MediaFire? Feb 17 16:56:37 nothing like telling your landlord the checks in the mail...as soon as paypal unblocks your account Feb 17 16:56:40 nah... just backing your line of a michael jackson song Feb 17 16:58:01 what's with mediafire? Feb 17 16:58:13 im going to use it to host my source code Feb 17 16:58:31 why that? Feb 17 16:58:39 cant figure out GitHub, and it has unlimited storage free (i think its unlimited) Feb 17 16:59:19 and you don't have a problem with your code being in some cloud? Feb 17 16:59:46 but github isn't 'some cloud'? Feb 17 16:59:57 well, i cant figure out GitHub, and why would i Feb 17 17:00:14 and isnt GitHub a cloud? Feb 17 17:00:38 i don't like the idea that my sourcecode is somewhere Feb 17 17:00:45 like out of my control Feb 17 17:00:51 do you use github? Feb 17 17:01:22 i cannot git this webview to work! Feb 17 17:01:29 and the log is showing that it is initializing the webview fine Feb 17 17:01:56 sugardave? wanna help :) Feb 17 17:02:34 or anyone can help lol Feb 17 17:02:38 i enjoy knowing theres a backup out there that i cannot accidently destroy Feb 17 17:02:51 that is a good thought dawm Feb 17 17:02:57 hay sineot! Feb 17 17:03:02 wanna help me with my webview? lol Feb 17 17:03:10 home pc's crash, hdds fail Feb 17 17:03:15 the log says it is initializing fine, but its not working :/ Feb 17 17:03:18 remote services almost always have redudant backups Feb 17 17:03:25 I like the idea that my source code is everywhere Feb 17 17:03:31 I mean, assuming it's open source :p Feb 17 17:03:35 and you can access your code anywhere Feb 17 17:03:39 well i got a server on the internet... full backup there, full control by me Feb 17 17:03:57 im still going to use it Feb 17 17:04:15 no problem with me, i was just asking Feb 17 17:04:26 probably just .zip the folders and upload them for personal backup and then use a different folder for source code Feb 17 17:04:39 i know, just explaning why im using it :) Feb 17 17:04:52 i have a weekly archive of my subversion repository Feb 17 17:05:42 anyone want to help with my webview problem? lol Feb 17 17:08:43 PatrickC_Home: just ask the question Feb 17 17:09:08 never played with webView, PatrickC_Home Feb 17 17:09:26 thats the point zsoc_web, i dont know whats wrong with it Feb 17 17:09:27 http://webos.pastebin.com/uy1YLxxZ Feb 17 17:09:47 this is my log, and my assistant is perfect, it checks out on the JSLint Feb 17 17:09:55 on Sine Feb 17 17:10:03 ok.. so.. what's not working? Feb 17 17:10:17 that's not a very helpful log! Feb 17 17:10:57 zsoc_web, it is not loading the webview in the app Feb 17 17:11:02 i launch the app, and nothing Feb 17 17:11:11 pastebin the code? Feb 17 17:12:17 PatrickC_Home: or at least your declaration Feb 17 17:12:41 http://webos.pastebin.com/A8hYXV7H Feb 17 17:12:48 there is the entire main-assistant.js Feb 17 17:13:27 PatrickC_Home: and the declaration please Feb 17 17:13:40 heh Feb 17 17:13:46 declaration? isnt it in there :) Feb 17 17:13:53 Playstation unveils its music service on ps3 Feb 17 17:13:53 wow, im a total n00b :p Feb 17 17:13:54 http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/02/17/access-millions-of-music-tracks-on-playstation-network-with-music-unlimited-available-today/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=music_unlimited_021711 Feb 17 17:14:18 dawm, saw it on Facebook i assume? Feb 17 17:14:29 i got an email Feb 17 17:14:37 ahh Feb 17 17:14:56 cause there was the "source=facebook&utm_..." Feb 17 17:15:03 dawm: that is pretty nifty,sounds like Pandora Feb 17 17:15:21 er no yah i got it from facebook Feb 17 17:16:12 PatrickC_Home: the declaration is in the uh.. hmm i haven't done thing in awhile. i think it's called a "Scene"? where the html stuff is Feb 17 17:16:13 halfhalo: ever seen Sublime Text 2 (I saw somebody state it blows TextMate away) ? Feb 17 17:16:26 oh, the scene :) Feb 17 17:16:27 ok Feb 17 17:16:41 yup, use it on a linux cmop at work Feb 17 17:16:50
Feb 17 17:16:59 halfhalo: cool, just starting to check it out, I never got e working Feb 17 17:17:04 I like it... but no git integration is a big nogo for me Feb 17 17:17:09 ah Feb 17 17:17:11 i dont have linux :( Feb 17 17:17:22 lol Feb 17 17:17:31 komodo has git/svn integration (havent used the git portion tho) Feb 17 17:17:58 I've got Komodo Edit, I may switch back to it Feb 17 17:18:05 sugardave, you broke my webview :) Feb 17 17:18:06 I much prefer windows to linux for a desktop right now Feb 17 17:18:12 PatrickC_Home: doubtful Feb 17 17:18:22 PatrickC_Home: in the instantiation, i always defined the attributes.. not sure if it's neccesary or not tho Feb 17 17:18:40 lol, well it wont work, the logs arent helpful, and the .js checks out with JSLint Feb 17 17:19:11 sugardave: you should know :) is it neccesary to this.attributes = { url... for the webview attributes? Feb 17 17:19:43 zsoc_web: he insists on doing it that way, and there are Palm examples showing it that way Feb 17 17:19:58 sugardave: Ok, that was my memory as well. Feb 17 17:20:04 PatrickC_Home: do what he says :p Feb 17 17:20:08 I either just pass an anon object or declare them outside the setupWidget and use the references Feb 17 17:20:32 I always just put the attributes and model in the widget institation, because it makes it easier to keep track of them for me Feb 17 17:21:10 ok, when i change it from www.developer.palm.com to www.palm.com it works Feb 17 17:21:12 var myWebView = {id: 'WebID', attributes: {}, model: {}}; Feb 17 17:21:20 snrk Feb 17 17:21:23 but when i have the url set to www.developer.palm.com it breaks Feb 17 17:21:27 why are you doing www.developer.palm.com? Feb 17 17:21:35 then setupWidget(myWebView.id, myWebView.attributes, myWebView.model); Feb 17 17:21:42 that's why it's breaking Feb 17 17:21:52 www.developer.palm.com doesn't -go- anywhere Feb 17 17:21:53 i hate it when ppl add www to everything Feb 17 17:22:00 omfg Feb 17 17:22:02 are you serious? Feb 17 17:22:08 :O Feb 17 17:22:09 you can email me at www.jim@aol.com Feb 17 17:22:31 aol doesnt allow .'s in screennames Feb 17 17:22:31 twitter: www@jim Feb 17 17:22:35 im trying to make an app for me to bring me directly to developer.palm.com/distribution Feb 17 17:22:45 for me to use Feb 17 17:22:47 do you see a www. anywhere in there, PatrickC_Home? Feb 17 17:22:50 im lazy :) Feb 17 17:22:57 no Feb 17 17:23:05 should it be http://developer.palm.com Feb 17 17:23:06 PatrickC_Home, just make a launcher bookmark Feb 17 17:23:08 then why did you put it in your webview? Feb 17 17:23:36 cause, im lazy :) Feb 17 17:23:44 PatrickC_Home: pro-tip: put http://www.developer.palm.com in a desktop browser and you will quickly see the issue Feb 17 17:23:48 that's not something you can blame on lazy Feb 17 17:23:48 and i want to learn to code, so i'm just going to do htis lol Feb 17 17:23:49 you added 4 characters cause your lazy? Feb 17 17:23:57 because you're typing MORE than you need to Feb 17 17:24:16 im saying im lazy and dont want to put a bookmark there Feb 17 17:24:29 hrrrrghhhhhh Feb 17 17:24:35 lol Feb 17 17:24:40 why? you'd be DONE by now if you just added the bookmark to the launcher Feb 17 17:24:42 Ok, I'm done. Feb 17 17:24:51 zsoc_web: good plan :D Feb 17 17:24:52 SineOt: don't you mean www.hrrrrghhhhhh Feb 17 17:24:59 I feel like I just got 2raxed. Feb 17 17:25:11 He's gotta be a troll. Feb 17 17:25:12 ? Feb 17 17:25:12 www.DAMN IT PATRICKC YOU DRIVE ME TO DRINK Feb 17 17:25:27 zsoc_web: but he isn't a troll, that's the funny part Feb 17 17:26:09 your a troll Feb 17 17:26:16 they just need to install tapatalk for the forums Feb 17 17:26:20 would make life so much easier Feb 17 17:26:22 wow, it was the www that broke it :0 Feb 17 17:26:32 PatrickC_Home: no shit sherlock Feb 17 17:26:33 i know, but they wont :/ Feb 17 17:27:01 ok, app works now Feb 17 17:27:08 now all i have to do is fix the appmenu Feb 17 17:27:15 then im done Feb 17 17:27:20 "The *^#@%! Internet! How does it work?!?!" Feb 17 17:27:26 Burn it with fire! Feb 17 17:27:51 CNAMES? HOW DO THEY WORK? Feb 17 17:27:56 ~magic everywhere~ Feb 17 17:28:00 They dont! Feb 17 17:29:22 only sometimes! Feb 17 17:30:09 i really wish they would come out with something to replace lost that was as good as lost.. i can only watch the entire thing so many times before i need somethign new :p Feb 17 17:30:29 dawm: Fringe? Feb 17 17:31:42 nah, lost was epic Feb 17 17:32:03 yeah, but Fringe has/had Leonard Nemoy :p Feb 17 17:32:03 Eh Feb 17 17:32:11 Season 6 messed Lost up. Feb 17 17:32:21 "Oh lulz everyone goes to heaven" just doesn't cut it for me. Feb 17 17:32:31 Season 6 makes perfect sense! Feb 17 17:32:38 I will cut you. Feb 17 17:32:45 Violently. Feb 17 17:33:01 it was a poor ending, but honestly how else could it have ended? Feb 17 17:33:07 it would suck no matter how it was done Feb 17 17:33:10 They could've come up with something better than heaven! Feb 17 17:33:25 Anything but heaven, really. Feb 17 17:33:31 I'm not even complaining about holy light. Feb 17 17:33:34 Just heaven. Feb 17 17:33:49 Yeah, holy light was also stupid. But I let that slide. Feb 17 17:33:51 It's Jack's dying hallucinations! Feb 17 17:34:20 Meanwhile, does anyone know if the webOS SDK has support for sockets yet? Feb 17 17:34:35 no Feb 17 17:34:36 It seems Palm wiped the community forums clean of any mention of this. Feb 17 17:34:42 Either that or the search is broken. Feb 17 17:34:48 That's rather lame. :( Feb 17 17:34:49 Node.JS can do sockets I think Feb 17 17:34:51 search is broken :P Feb 17 17:34:56 but you need 2.x+ for that Feb 17 17:35:16 Well, everyone's gonna be using 2.x now, so Feb 17 17:35:18 now, i just need to set up a stinkin list Feb 17 17:35:20 I have a Node.JS service I'm waiting to test on device that does UDP broadcast :3c Feb 17 17:35:29 And the TouchPad is sexy. Feb 17 17:35:38 i want one Feb 17 17:35:40 Although they should've added USB ports, IMO. Feb 17 17:36:02 do we know that the charging port can't also be a USB host? Feb 17 17:36:39 it's not known, but I'd say it's a safe assumption that it won't do USB host Feb 17 17:37:12 probably a safe assumption, but they might surprise us, I suppose Feb 17 17:37:41 if it did do anything, I'd assume it'd be similar to the really only can do photo download stuff the iPad does Feb 17 17:37:48 what does USB host let you do? Feb 17 17:38:08 like hook up a usb hdd Feb 17 17:38:13 yeah basically Feb 17 17:38:22 got it Feb 17 17:38:26 that would be cool Feb 17 17:38:26 lets you do "real computer" usb stuff Feb 17 17:38:29 eww iPad Feb 17 17:39:03 qute frankly, I'd really like to see photo download stuff Feb 17 17:39:14 eww the device that basically single handedly spawned the development of a massive number of tablets :Q Feb 17 17:39:43 it's starting to scare me how single-handedly apple is driving the market Feb 17 17:40:31 iphone nano tho.. sounds similar to the veer (tiny smartphone) Feb 17 17:41:19 I'm skeptical that it's going to happen Feb 17 17:41:22 the iphone nano Feb 17 17:41:31 Yeah. The only way to beat Apple is to, well, beat Apple to the punch. Feb 17 17:41:40 And everyone is failing really hard at that. Feb 17 17:41:43 SineOt, not true Feb 17 17:41:45 we already did that Feb 17 17:41:53 multitasking Feb 17 17:41:59 apple made a failed attempt to copy Feb 17 17:42:01 but still wins Feb 17 17:42:18 Its just really sad that the best tablet on the market is Nook Color Feb 17 17:42:29 and the iPad, depending on your budget Feb 17 17:42:49 bionicRobot: you forgot the newton in your comparison :-) Feb 17 17:42:56 if you base the win on how it's done, then webOS still holds the crown: if you base it on the number of people using it, Apple wins just because of the fact that they had a head start on the 'accessible smartphone' market Feb 17 17:43:05 the 1992 Newton? Feb 17 17:43:15 is there any more established js framework which can be compared with enyo in the sense that learning some basics of such JS framework would be helpful on the road of mastering enyo & webos development? Feb 17 17:43:27 i base the win on, people dont even think palm makes phones anymore Feb 17 17:43:27 right now I'm mostly thinking of the tablet market Feb 17 17:43:34 or that hp does Feb 17 17:43:50 Apple launched the wifi only iPad first, and none of the other tablet makers has followed that Feb 17 17:44:20 because they got the LCD game locked up Feb 17 17:44:54 they are smart, like SWA, hedge on fuel so when the demand gets there guess who's holding the cards Feb 17 17:44:54 even ignoring that, the Galaxy Tab still hasn't launched a wifi only, carrier branding free version, and it's been out for a few months now Feb 17 17:46:00 woot Feb 17 17:46:01 http://detroitneedsrobocop.com/ Feb 17 17:46:11 its been funded (pledged) Feb 17 17:46:15 but still, your options are Nook Color, and iPad for now Feb 17 17:46:38 yeah, because everything else requires dealing with a carrier and their BS Feb 17 17:47:19 How the hell does BN, who isn't even in the CE market, able to pull off a $250 tablet? Feb 17 17:47:35 I mean hell, even if you wanted to get something like the Xoom, you've got to deal with Verizon's BS Feb 17 17:47:42 dawm, *head desk* Feb 17 17:47:55 because the Tablet will have the Wifi disabled until after you purchase a month of data service for it Feb 17 17:48:02 on top of the 799 price tag Feb 17 17:48:43 And then, if it ever makes it to market, you can get the Wifi only version for 600 Feb 17 17:49:04 But given the example set by the Galaxy Tab, Moto won't be in any hurry to get the wifi version shipping Feb 17 17:49:24 what is the best way to make a support scene? hand make it, or use the built-in one? Feb 17 17:49:38 I just hand make it. Feb 17 17:49:58 how? i cant figure out how to do the lists (using webos101) Feb 17 17:50:26 the List page on webos101 is probably THE best place to learn how to do a list Feb 17 17:50:39 it is all so confusing :p Feb 17 17:50:50 it's a support scene Feb 17 17:50:54 just hand code it Feb 17 17:51:11 do u use lists? Feb 17 17:51:13 using
and some
Feb 17 17:51:28 Not for a support scene, it ain't changing much so why bother Feb 17 17:51:46 then how do u code it? what do you include? Feb 17 17:52:04 I just write the HTML for it? :I Feb 17 17:52:22 like pure HTML? Feb 17 17:52:32 yes? Feb 17 17:52:40 ohh ok Feb 17 17:52:51 i was thinking you made it with native UI Feb 17 17:53:01 it is native ui.... Feb 17 17:53:02 it is native UI Feb 17 17:53:20 well, i mean using lists and buttons Feb 17 17:53:50 it is Feb 17 17:53:57 PatrickC_Home: have you looked at the style matters app? Feb 17 17:54:10 it shows the html you use for static lists and groups and stuff Feb 17 17:54:11 somewhat Feb 17 17:54:21 ill take a look again Feb 17 17:54:22 http://webos.pastebin.com/TC2AMeDH < not a support scene, but there's all the HTML for a native group, native list, and native widgets, all without touching the JS to generate it Feb 17 17:54:34 thanks sine Feb 17 17:54:52 all the JS does is build the HTML for you when you do something like a list widget Feb 17 17:55:01 style matters and mojo matters are things you need to look at more than the "somewhat" level Feb 17 17:55:19 sugardave: to be fair there's a LOT he needs to be looking at more than just a "somewhat" level :p Feb 17 17:55:28 amen Feb 17 17:56:04 so I should basically start over writing my app in enyo when it's available right? Feb 17 17:56:13 rather than keep building it in mojo Feb 17 17:56:21 summatusmentis: that's a good question Feb 17 17:56:36 I think at the moment it really doesn't matter TOO much Feb 17 17:56:43 do you want to support legacy devices that may not ever get the chance to run Enyo or not? Feb 17 17:56:44 it's been on hiatus, because I've been busy with school Feb 17 17:56:45 because apparently Mojo will work fine across all devices Feb 17 17:57:09 and Enyo will really only do Tablet stuff and I'm not even sure if Enyo will be supported on the Veer and Pre3 at launch Feb 17 17:57:43 the app will be much more useful on a Tablet than on a phone, although there's arguably some use on a pre/pre3 Feb 17 17:57:46 i' just wonder if learning (part of) some JS framework can help learning enyo Feb 17 17:58:09 gour: it should yes Feb 17 17:58:17 gour: I've heard that Enyo is fairly similar to Jo, but I'm not sure how much it is in actual practice Feb 17 17:58:29 zsoc_web: which one? Feb 17 17:58:45 at least in the reliance on things like flexboxes Feb 17 17:58:50 which are huge in Enyo Feb 17 17:59:17 let me find about Jo...i wanted to learn dojo in the past, but then gave up not having real usage for it...otoh, i've book about jquery(UI) Feb 17 17:59:48 Jo is probably closer to what Enyo will be doing than jQuery Feb 17 18:00:29 i'll take a look at Jo Feb 17 18:00:52 PatrickC_Home: all the native UI stuff is, in the end, just HTML and CSS. You could hand code a button widget if you really wanted to, but that'd just be dumb Feb 17 18:01:12 But it does mean that you can style native widgets to do what you want them to do Feb 17 18:02:00 i see that Jo is comp. with phonegap...it sounds good Feb 17 18:02:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-16hB1KPOs < these are all native button widgets Feb 17 18:02:26 thaks sine Feb 17 18:02:30 *thanks* Feb 17 18:02:40 i will be playing around with the code u gave me Feb 17 18:03:48 PatrickC_Home: if you do only one thing, please, please, PLEASE for the love of everything, don't just copy paste it Feb 17 18:04:00 hahaha Feb 17 18:04:08 y not lol Feb 17 18:04:11 and instead at least make a passing effort to look at it and at least understand the how and more importantly, the why Feb 17 18:04:12 just kidding :p Feb 17 18:04:40 i am looking at it, tryingt o figure out what it does and how it does it Feb 17 18:04:45 *trying to * Feb 17 18:04:55 it's just simple HTML and CSS Feb 17 18:05:07 Strip out the text field widgets or you'll probably just end up confusing yourself Feb 17 18:06:01 SineOt: Pretty sure I read somewhere that 3.0 will be coming to phones "later in the year" ie., not when touchpad launches. Feb 17 18:06:26 "soon in the coming months that are later in the year" Feb 17 18:06:47 idontwan2know: yeah, I know. Hence why I'm not sure if Enyo will be on the Veer/Pre3 at launch Feb 17 18:06:54 idontwan2know: all phones will get 3.0 automatically over the air, just like 2.0 :-) Feb 17 18:07:24 maybe.... Feb 17 18:08:14 brb Feb 17 18:08:43 interesting post from the Jo developer - http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2011/02/palms_amazingly.html Feb 17 18:08:46 sugardave: in the coming years Feb 17 18:09:20 all that 3.0 is just Enyo enabled really Feb 17 18:09:49 so I don't think it'll take a long time to end up on phones Feb 17 18:10:23 destinal-work: "before the end of time*" *unless we over-promised again Feb 17 18:11:58 SineOt: wait, those are native /enyo/ widgets? Feb 17 18:12:18 zsoc_web: huh? the video I posted is all Mojo Feb 17 18:12:29 but I imagine that Enyo wouldn't be much harder to customize like that Feb 17 18:13:37 oh interesting Feb 17 18:13:56 when you stop and realize that it's all just CSS and HTML you can do some cool stuff with the native widgets :9 Feb 17 18:14:35 those buttons are built with CSS spriting for the backgrounds then the image is a second background layer, making use of CSS3's ability to do multiple backgrounds Feb 17 18:14:52 by image I mean the like, glyph buttony doodly thing Feb 17 18:21:37 time forr lunch Feb 17 18:29:43 @queuenoodle is the best twitter feed :B Feb 17 18:30:03 anybody working on an IRC client for WebOS? Feb 17 18:30:13 there's already one (well, two) Feb 17 18:30:15 webos-internals' wIRC Feb 17 18:30:16 wIRC is nice Feb 17 18:30:54 Thanks. will it wIRC ever find its way to the app catalgo? Feb 17 18:31:07 c/catalgo/catalog Feb 17 18:31:24 hopefully Feb 17 18:31:32 still waiting on hybrid apps to be allowed Feb 17 18:32:07 SineOT: Currently can't be done w/o being hybrid? Feb 17 18:32:47 Not very well, no Feb 17 18:32:58 wIRC works fine on 1.4.5 right now, you just need to get it via Preware Feb 17 18:33:09 but the app catalog is set up to not allow Hybrid Apps yet Feb 17 18:33:44 SineOt: I see. Thanks Feb 17 18:36:08 no worries kfife Feb 17 18:43:16 SineOt: mytether available thru preware? Feb 17 18:43:41 no, but freetether is, and has the benefit of actually working Feb 17 18:43:51 idontwan2know: lol Feb 17 18:43:57 That's a good feature. Feb 17 18:44:14 indeed Feb 17 18:44:21 Hold on, let me google that to confirm.... Yep. actually working is a good feature Feb 17 18:53:54 anyone online? Feb 17 18:57:46 HebrewHammer: maybe your wireless router needs up firmware update. Feb 17 19:07:23 back Feb 17 19:07:56 trying to add my auto-generated support scene broke the app :( Feb 17 19:08:42 "I broke my app trying..." Feb 17 19:09:19 something is wrong in your appinfo.json. Use jsonlint to see what. Feb 17 19:09:57 ok Feb 17 19:11:12 fixed the appinfo.json, still broken Feb 17 19:11:19 ill check my .js Feb 17 19:11:47 The answer to "I broke my app trying to..." is "undo what you did 1 thing at a time til it works again" Feb 17 19:12:38 well, before i do that, ill validate my .js file first Feb 17 19:12:52 "WARNING: JSLint will hurt your feelings." Feb 17 19:12:57 so true :) Feb 17 19:13:23 warning: so will haeffb_pre Feb 17 19:13:57 lol Feb 17 19:14:50 http://jslint.com wont load for me Feb 17 19:19:26 still broken... http://webos.pastebin.com/f9uBDxTp Feb 17 19:19:40 jslint is broken today Feb 17 19:19:58 ahh Feb 17 19:20:02 jsonlint isnt Feb 17 19:26:34 do u see anything wrong with it? Feb 17 19:28:50 did you look at logs? Feb 17 19:28:57 nope lol Feb 17 19:29:17 i just did something to it a second ago, trying again, then i'll look at logs Feb 17 19:31:19 i fixed it Feb 17 19:31:42 you cannot use the " shortcut: 'h' " anymore Feb 17 19:34:06 YAY!!! I have a working app that was built with nothing but the SDK (and sugardave, SineOt, and haeffb_pre) Feb 17 19:34:44 now, all i need are backgrounds Feb 17 19:34:54 PatrickC_Home: Nice work! Feb 17 19:35:06 yep :) Feb 17 19:35:27 it doesnt do anything (as the radio station doesn't have a online station anymore, they will soon) Feb 17 19:35:32 but everything works! Feb 17 19:37:10 now to figure out how to do backgrounds in webOS outside of Ares... Feb 17 19:40:34 var width = Mojo.Environment.DeviceInfo.maximumCardWidth; Feb 17 19:40:39 var height = Mojo.Environment.DeviceInfo.maximumCardHeight Feb 17 19:41:00 this is what i would use if i want to have it work on both pre/pixi? right Feb 17 19:45:51 where do i put the background code? Feb 17 19:46:20 in the CSS file, HTML file, assistant.js file, or the appinfo.json Feb 17 19:51:17 does the emulator work with virtualbox ose? Feb 17 19:51:43 ose? Feb 17 19:51:48 PatrickC_Home: webos101 Feb 17 19:52:14 webos101 doesnt say where to put the file, i already have it pulled up and the code sitting in front of me Feb 17 19:52:24 http://webos101.com/Code_Snippets#Adding_a_custom_background Feb 17 19:53:08 and http://webos101.com/Background doesnt exist Feb 17 19:53:36 the open source edition. debian has version 3.2.0 of the OSE version and if that'd work I'd prefer that over installing the one from virtualbox.org Feb 17 19:56:59 PatrickC_Home: I imagine the CSS script would go in a css file.... Feb 17 19:57:30 thats what i thought, just making sure Feb 17 20:03:24 so far the OSE is working... :) Feb 17 20:04:09 cool Feb 17 20:04:16 what app are you working on? Feb 17 20:06:21 how come this http://webos.pastebin.com/bNmBdnNB wouldnt work? Feb 17 20:06:27 it doesnt add the email in Feb 17 20:10:36 I hi just a quick question, does anyone know how to ignore a Tag on a list element? Feb 17 20:11:56 i dont Feb 17 20:12:15 im still trying to fix my auto-generated support scene Feb 17 20:12:23 i cant get it to add a email... Feb 17 20:12:44 there are a lot of stuff that don't work properly on Mojo Feb 17 20:12:47 kind of disappointing Feb 17 20:12:55 for example styling of the body element does not work either Feb 17 20:13:00 Enyo looks promissing Feb 17 20:13:14 yeah but I want to deploy my apps now Feb 17 20:13:27 can't wait for "in the coming months" Feb 17 20:13:28 :) Feb 17 20:13:29 well, Mojo is still better then Java for me at lease Feb 17 20:13:40 i know Feb 17 20:13:48 i want a touchpad! and a webOS toaster Feb 17 20:13:55 haha lol Feb 17 20:13:58 I want a toaster too Feb 17 20:13:59 :P Feb 17 20:14:25 well, i want more of a webOS Microwave Feb 17 20:14:38 then i can start cooking my popcorn from my webOS PC Feb 17 20:16:04 how do i clear the logs? Feb 17 20:17:25 cat /dev/null > /var/messages/log Feb 17 20:17:26 not sure if you can do that Feb 17 20:18:05 f\SDK Apps>cat /dev/null 'cat' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. Feb 17 20:18:22 in emulator Feb 17 20:18:24 or the phone Feb 17 20:18:32 and sugardave, can you help me with an auto-generated support scene? Feb 17 20:18:33 ok Feb 17 20:19:05 wait, how do i do that in the emulator? Feb 17 20:19:58 novaterm to it Feb 17 20:20:15 or ssh to it Feb 17 20:20:18 via webosQI> Feb 17 20:20:27 well, idk how to ssh to it Feb 17 20:20:37 then use novaterm Feb 17 20:21:01 can i novaterm in Windows? Feb 17 20:21:18 nevermind Feb 17 20:21:25 im actually using google :) Feb 17 20:21:38 novaterm should be included in your sdk Feb 17 20:21:56 it's as simple as opening a dos prompt and typing, wait for it.... Feb 17 20:21:59 novaterm Feb 17 20:22:19 i found instructions thanks Feb 17 20:23:18 are you any good with the auto-generated help scenes? Feb 17 20:23:24 to add email to your auto-generated support scene, make sure you have your appinfo.json file done properly according to the example they show on the pushAppSupportSceneInfo() method Feb 17 20:23:46 it all works, im trying to add another email Feb 17 20:23:53 ill pastebin my appinfo.json Feb 17 20:24:01 can probably only have one Feb 17 20:24:06 but I don't know that for sure Feb 17 20:24:28 sugardave: did they start shipping novaterm with the windows sdk? they didn't used to Feb 17 20:24:54 http://webos.pastebin.com/4tma8vWp Feb 17 20:25:10 destinal-work: orly? crap Feb 17 20:25:24 its in there Feb 17 20:25:27 destinal-work: I assumed it was available as it is in Linux Feb 17 20:25:38 i found it Feb 17 20:25:51 it was in the "Palm\SDK\bin\novaterm.exe Feb 17 20:26:30 wait, i need novaterm right Feb 17 20:26:33 not novacom Feb 17 20:27:34 novaterm Feb 17 20:27:57 and you can only have resources of type "web" or "scene" for your auto-generated help scene Feb 17 20:28:12 man Feb 17 20:28:15 ok thanks Feb 17 20:28:24 i was able to get in by "run novacom -t open tty:// " Feb 17 20:28:39 or you could just run: novaterm Feb 17 20:29:51 sugardave: yeah there's no novatem Feb 17 20:30:16 http://webos.pastebin.com/2Yvz50cL Feb 17 20:30:19 there's one you can download that geist made Feb 17 20:30:31 that was the output of novaterm and it didnt clear the logs Feb 17 20:30:50 and destinal-work, just go to "run" and type "novacom -t open tty://" Feb 17 20:30:53 PatrickC_Home: wow what are you trying to do? Feb 17 20:30:56 it opens up Feb 17 20:31:02 clear my logs Feb 17 20:31:30 in the emulator? Feb 17 20:31:35 yea Feb 17 20:32:02 anyone heard from the dev team for the free pre2's? Feb 17 20:32:14 destinal-work: ah, I will try to remember that :D Feb 17 20:32:26 PatrickC_Home: maybe just rm /var/log/* Feb 17 20:33:01 PatrickC_Home: you failed to follow directions Feb 17 20:33:02 didnt work destinal-work Feb 17 20:33:03 again Feb 17 20:33:08 the command is this Feb 17 20:33:10 what did i do Feb 17 20:33:16 cat /dev/null > /var/log/messages Feb 17 20:33:41 sugardave: why not just " > /var/log messages " then Feb 17 20:33:41 yay worked Feb 17 20:33:55 i thought u mean to do the cat first and then the var Feb 17 20:34:03 destinal-work: say what? Feb 17 20:34:19 sugardave: you don't need anything to the left of the > if you don't want any input Feb 17 20:34:23 > foo Feb 17 20:34:24 ah Feb 17 20:34:26 say WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT Feb 17 20:34:27 neat Feb 17 20:34:29 will make a zero byte file called foo Feb 17 20:34:38 I did not know that :D Feb 17 20:34:45 hay look Feb 17 20:34:51 we all learned something :) Feb 17 20:34:56 did we Feb 17 20:34:58 ? Feb 17 20:35:00 all of us? Feb 17 20:35:05 no Feb 17 20:35:09 I never learn Feb 17 20:35:10 I learned that people didn't know that command Feb 17 20:35:10 well, me, you, and halo Feb 17 20:35:11 :) Feb 17 20:35:17 destinal-work: hehe Feb 17 20:35:18 lol Feb 17 20:36:21 well, my app is 100% done (except for backgrounds and a working radio .pls link) Feb 17 20:37:47 what's your app about PatrickC_Home Feb 17 20:37:49 are there any information available on how the boot process to webOS is? what's executed a different stages etc? Feb 17 20:38:02 it is a radio app Feb 17 20:38:07 nice Feb 17 20:38:12 i am making it for my old church who just bought a radio station Feb 17 20:38:24 it plays the online .pls radio stream Feb 17 20:38:42 and of course, it will be FREE Feb 17 20:39:43 oh no, I have been helping on a religious app? :/ Feb 17 20:39:55 well, i can now look at adding a notification bar with a play/stop button Feb 17 20:40:05 and yes sugardave Feb 17 20:40:23 i said that it was for my old church a while ago a few times Feb 17 20:40:37 lol sugardave Feb 17 20:40:41 lost in the flood of lol, I'm sure Feb 17 20:41:08 so my boss caught a stray that was eating his cats food Feb 17 20:41:24 how hard is it to make a dashboard that will play/stop the stream? Feb 17 20:41:29 and instead of taking it to the animal shelter in the morning, it sat in the office all morning in a box Feb 17 20:41:40 making sad cat noises :/ Feb 17 20:41:48 poor kitty :( Feb 17 20:42:06 awe :\ Feb 17 20:42:08 did u rescue it? Feb 17 20:42:19 he took it to the animal place Feb 17 20:42:24 this time we cant blame oil Feb 17 20:42:30 ... Feb 17 20:42:39 we need to re-build the wheel'o'blame Feb 17 20:42:47 No Feb 17 20:42:52 lol Feb 17 20:42:54 oil did not take the poor kitteh, and now it is going to be destroyed Feb 17 20:43:07 hopefully itl find a home before it gets gassed Feb 17 20:43:07 ahh, so we can still blame oil Feb 17 20:43:19 oil can give it a home :) Feb 17 20:43:28 lol Feb 17 20:43:37 ghhhhhhhhhhhhh7u=y-p[[[[[[[[[[654~;66666666666666tr Feb 17 20:43:45 that was from one of my cats Feb 17 20:43:45 i agree sugardave Feb 17 20:43:45 yes Feb 17 20:44:25 wait, i need to add a "Stop" button to the app Feb 17 20:45:53 now to figure out how to stop the audio from playing Feb 17 20:45:56 i like ares Feb 17 20:46:07 this.$.audio1.stop() Feb 17 20:47:03 http://webos101.com/Audio Feb 17 20:47:13 no one has populated this yet Feb 17 20:48:39 GET ON IT! Feb 17 20:48:45 NOWNOWNOW Feb 17 20:49:02 lol, mine would just be "copy/paste" from Palm Feb 17 20:49:03 :) Feb 17 20:49:14 and u guys dont like it when i copy/paste :p Feb 17 20:49:29 * halfhalo doesnt like ANYTHING Feb 17 20:50:05 we know Feb 17 20:50:08 lol Feb 17 20:50:55 you make an HTML5 audio object and control it via code or you let the audio player launch and play it in a new card Feb 17 20:51:11 which will have its own stop/pause/play controls Feb 17 20:51:43 for you, I recommend letting the Palm audio player do the work Feb 17 20:51:45 well if you copy/paste without understanding what you copy/paste its not so good Feb 17 20:51:55 i will be using the built-in audio player for now, then will move on to the HTML5 Feb 17 20:52:22 i usually copy/paste, then run what i copy/pasted, then see what it does, then see why it does what it does Feb 17 20:53:22 the only reason i dont try and use the HTML5 yet, is i have no way of knowing if it is working Feb 17 20:53:36 i dont have a working link to the online audio yet, they aren't streaming yet online Feb 17 20:54:26 should i just copy/paste the palm stuff into the http://webos101.com/audio ? Feb 17 20:55:13 The audio object can also cause issues with the OS in 1.4.5 if you dont implement it right Feb 17 20:55:25 same as it ever was Feb 17 20:55:27 the device will start to lock up Feb 17 20:55:35 howdy! Feb 17 20:55:44 I havent tested it in 2.0.1 yet on the pre2 Feb 17 20:55:45 hay ajay_ Feb 17 20:55:55 has the vz dr been obtained yet? Feb 17 20:56:04 CTLAdvance: my streaming app on the Pre2 is WAAAAY better than 1.4.5 Feb 17 20:56:09 i dont know Feb 17 20:56:19 it switxhes between streams in 3-4 seconds as opposed to 15-20 Feb 17 20:56:24 bbl. gotta go organize the garage Feb 17 20:56:31 but I haven't done a lot of stress testing with it Feb 17 20:57:35 Woa, how come nobody ever talks about Kobo? or maybe they do but i just wasnt interested in ebooks enough before to notice ;^) Feb 17 20:57:42 wow Feb 17 20:57:43 sweet Feb 17 20:57:44 sugardave streaming app? Feb 17 20:57:46 (just voted in the engadget poll thing and noticed) Feb 17 20:58:15 oil: Scan Do! it streams radio scanners from around the world Feb 17 20:58:24 ah Feb 17 20:58:31 ones that come from radioreference.com Feb 17 21:00:22 * ajay_ remembers why he wants another web browser.. search within page!! aaah!! Feb 17 21:02:59 man i still got no final mail for my early access Feb 17 21:03:10 my holidays are nearly over :/ Feb 17 21:03:24 wow what timing.. ;^) Feb 17 21:04:08 i'm always at par when it comes to whining Feb 17 21:04:35 hey chuq! Feb 17 21:05:12 chuqui: Verizon Pre 2 doctor is missing from palm.com/rom - people now have phones and are flying without a net Feb 17 21:05:31 it's like the Walindas Feb 17 21:05:38 but huger Feb 17 21:06:38 Walindas? Feb 17 21:07:13 wikipedia finds Feb 17 21:07:18 the Flying Wallendas (I spelled it wrong): http://www.wallenda.com/ Feb 17 21:07:21 The Flying Wallendas Feb 17 21:08:11 damn timing.. ;^) sugar: nice reference, heh.. ;^) There are a lot of people spelling it your way online tho! Feb 17 21:08:28 :) Feb 17 21:10:40 any news on the pre5? Feb 17 21:11:07 um Feb 17 21:11:09 no? Feb 17 21:11:36 Interesting how Ari said HP had a workhorse of a phone Feb 17 21:12:08 i wonder if they are gonna just adding up the number or changing the names later on Feb 17 21:12:14 Hopefully its one of these mystery 4.3" devices with sideways slider... Feb 17 21:12:14 HP does. we don't. :( Feb 17 21:12:32 it's the pre 3 Feb 17 21:13:01 nah thats more like a phone for general users, you cant call it a workhorse.. imo Feb 17 21:13:05 why must these smartphones be so expensive Feb 17 21:13:09 :( Feb 17 21:13:37 joetweeply: $650 is cheap for the amount of engineering suck cost for the Pre 3. Feb 17 21:14:02 650? Feb 17 21:14:13 i'd just love to buy it but so much money? Feb 17 21:14:22 rwhitby: were the unlocked and sfr doctors avail immediately? Feb 17 21:14:32 ajay_: some were, some weren't Feb 17 21:14:53 Hopefully the launch a Verizon doctor soon Feb 17 21:14:55 CTLAdvance: in the context of that statement, he clearly meant Pre 3 Feb 17 21:14:56 * ajay_ feels pity for HP selling devices for so cheap.. poor things.. Feb 17 21:15:13 hi chuqui Feb 17 21:16:50 haeffb_pre - Sadly I know he did Feb 17 21:17:30 if only there was a way for device manufacturers to make money beyond purchase price.. sigh i guess manufacturers will always be screwed by consumers buying at below cost..can manufs ever have a chance at making up the diff..so sad Feb 17 21:18:29 ajay your statement doesnt make any sense, HP still makes a ton of money when someone buys a device on contract Feb 17 21:19:07 ;^) Feb 17 21:19:23 sorry didnt detect the sarc tag Feb 17 21:19:38 fail? Feb 17 21:19:42 not until after th xxxxxth device Feb 17 21:19:56 hey,howdee Feb 17 21:20:08 dudy Feb 17 21:20:21 the first xxxxx pay for development Feb 17 21:20:40 which is why HP now owns Palm Feb 17 21:21:04 chuqui: apologies, i've been mispronouncing your name forever! Feb 17 21:21:30 chew key? Feb 17 21:21:58 The Chunker Feb 17 21:21:58 mooo Feb 17 21:22:03 chuk wee Feb 17 21:24:04 chuk wheee! Feb 17 21:24:14 haha Feb 17 21:24:23 chuqui: ah, you fly around shooting lasers too? Feb 17 21:24:37 i wonder if we could get mapquest to release gps for the pre http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/17/mapquest-for-android-brings-free-turn-by-turn-navigation-openst/ Feb 17 21:24:47 definitely! (hey, rod!) Feb 17 21:26:07 I guess if HP asked mapquest would be more likely to do so than if we asked.. Feb 17 21:27:44 * ajay_ didn't even know Dorothy returned to Oz. woa.. straight narnia status Feb 17 21:29:31 They tell stories about Chuq and how he saved the sunnyvale campus from bear attack Feb 17 21:34:24 is it fix that legacy devices will get not updates whatsoever? Feb 17 21:34:30 like more services and stuff? Feb 17 21:35:04 chuqui: did you see rwhitby's Pre2 q? Feb 17 21:37:52 I pay no attention to rwhitby. he's a troll. Feb 17 21:38:01 (ducking... giggle) Feb 17 21:38:05 inorite Feb 17 21:38:20 chuqui: especially on Twitter Feb 17 21:38:53 * ajay_ can't figure out how to change pages on kobo's website.. nervous about the webOS app now! Feb 17 21:40:28 rwhitby: Well I guess there's that independence you wanted! ;^) Feb 17 21:41:12 lol rwhitby, Doctors for the Pre2, HO doesnt release doctors anymore... noob Feb 17 21:41:17 HP* Feb 17 21:42:25 speaking of trolls Feb 17 21:42:35 yes, you called? Feb 17 21:50:41 did I hear correctly on feb9 that there's a nook client coming too? Feb 17 21:51:24 iih nook client... BN.... BOOM Feb 17 21:52:05 howdy everyone! Feb 17 21:53:26 i searched online for nook webos, but found some webos-internals page about nookie Feb 17 21:54:18 hrm Feb 17 21:54:30 HP might be making a nook app to go with its kindle app Feb 17 21:55:09 now that I would like Feb 17 21:55:47 chuqui: did you get my email? not sure if my new comany has some kind of email filtering... Feb 17 21:55:53 I burn through about 500 pages a week on my nook Feb 17 21:55:54 s/comany/company Feb 17 21:56:03 i thought they said something, but i can't find any refs online, and none of you seem to have heard that, so.. Feb 17 21:56:13 kindle is being made Feb 17 21:56:15 nebula: I'm a few hundred emails behind. to be honest, I don't remember offhand. Feb 17 21:56:17 maybe thats what your thinking Feb 17 21:56:21 oh that's a good idea though, HP should get the nook to run webOS Feb 17 21:56:23 CTLAdvance: no Feb 17 21:56:29 chuqui: no worries. Feb 17 21:56:46 ajay_: it's probably one of those things like them having the netflix logo up in the background...where noone said anything but it was there Feb 17 21:56:51 HAI TIBFIB Feb 17 21:57:04 ajay hush I need the nookcolor to be my cheap android tablet Feb 17 21:57:14 :) Feb 17 21:57:24 sugardave: howdy! Feb 17 21:57:37 chuqui: so chuq, only 0 star "Report a Problem" reviews don't count? Feb 17 21:58:10 somebody said BN or nook in the WOR gatherup, but maybe they mistook.. Feb 17 21:58:20 Loudergood: hm, i need to see that image again! :) Feb 17 21:58:53 wow, the Enyo sample apps don't run so hot on the iPad. Assuming they run smoothly on the upcoming webOS devices, that's pretty exciting performance-wise. Feb 17 21:59:15 Sugardave - Should we begin distributing the source code for the "No more gesture area" protest? Feb 17 21:59:37 * Tibfib hasn't gotten a reply from the "0 star" reviewer Feb 17 21:59:57 Tibfib: How did you contact him? Feb 17 22:00:01 or her Feb 17 22:00:03 of course I didn't reaaally expect him to Feb 17 22:00:03 i had a dream the pre3 had a joystick area due to no back gesture Feb 17 22:00:05 wow Feb 17 22:00:05 ajay_: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/palmtb0038.jpg Feb 17 22:00:18 * ajay_ dreams of a "no more gesture area protest" Feb 17 22:00:27 dohtem: myappbox.com is wonderful. It has links to all reviews by a person, in one of his reviews he left his email Feb 17 22:00:29 it was my first webOS dream Feb 17 22:00:32 imagine that Feb 17 22:00:40 Tibfib: awesome Feb 17 22:00:53 yeah Feb 17 22:00:55 What we were discussing was to get as many devs as possible build a virtual black gesture area in tablet apps with a note "This wouldnt be here if HP included a gesture area" Feb 17 22:01:05 and of course the virtual gesture area would function Feb 17 22:01:08 Loudergood: nice job! but damn they weren't there, so probably imagined.. what's between linkedin and flickr? Feb 17 22:01:08 * Tibfib will miss the gesture area Feb 17 22:01:34 * ajay_ wont go Pre4 if it doesn't have a gesture area while Android does Feb 17 22:01:34 no idea Feb 17 22:01:42 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/palmtb0038.jpg - what's the logo/icon between LinkedIn & Flickr? Feb 17 22:01:52 ajay - blackberry will also I would assume thanks to QNX Feb 17 22:02:06 ajay_: I think the phones will keep them Feb 17 22:02:07 CTLAdvance: right, but i think i'll go android before BB/iOS Feb 17 22:02:12 lol Feb 17 22:02:15 yeah same here Feb 17 22:02:25 * Tibfib would go wp7 or iOS Feb 17 22:02:29 I hate android Feb 17 22:02:48 * CTLAdvance WP7, Android, IOS, BB Feb 17 22:02:57 hi Feb 17 22:03:16 * halfhalo would go wp7, ios, android, bb Feb 17 22:03:17 Tibfib: the other problem is, the phones may keep them, but they may be useless within the context of enyo Feb 17 22:03:35 * ajay_ barfs at the mentions of wp7.. cringes at iOS.. Feb 17 22:03:43 ajay_: I don't think so Feb 17 22:04:00 I dont see why the didnt keep the gesture area AND require on screen nav tools Feb 17 22:04:06 just give devs a gesture area api Feb 17 22:04:10 * ajay_ wishes he could go Meego.. if only NokiaPlanB was true! Feb 17 22:04:11 well game development for mobile seems best to be on wp7 Feb 17 22:04:22 because it's the same as xb360 Feb 17 22:04:56 * halfhalo has a zune hd now Feb 17 22:04:57 Tibfib: why do you hate android? If its UI I think Android will be surpassing webOS soon Feb 17 22:05:02 * CTLAdvance thinks wp7 is the easiest to dev for thanks to the use of visual studio 2010 and the xna game studio.... Feb 17 22:05:06 ajay_: LOL Feb 17 22:05:13 I would like to see a webOS plugin for VS Feb 17 22:05:16 seriously. android is awful Feb 17 22:05:51 pretty ugly. ui is crappy. spammy apps (although webOS has its share) Feb 17 22:05:56 oh, forgot about meego Feb 17 22:05:57 ++ to CTLAdvance's idea Feb 17 22:05:59 CTLAdvance: what about the browser and mobile webapps ;) Feb 17 22:05:59 Tibfib: yeah, the UI is kinda bad right now, but.. imagine.. with gestures.. better notifications.. Feb 17 22:06:08 what do you mean Feb 17 22:06:14 CTLAdvance: ie7 Feb 17 22:06:16 ajay_: I can't see myself going to android until at least 5.0 Feb 17 22:06:19 WP7 will have webKit 2nd half of 11 Feb 17 22:06:23 err I meant 4.0 Feb 17 22:06:29 also phonegap is working to integrate with it Feb 17 22:06:29 * ajay_ wants the last Nokia meego device 'for fun' Feb 17 22:06:46 Tibfib: That'll probably match up with my "if pre4 doesn't have a gesture area" time frame Feb 17 22:07:09 the gesture area is FOR mobile devices Feb 17 22:07:10 and the WP7 browser supports IIS sites better than webKit so its better for business now, something still supported propperly in IE9 Feb 17 22:07:11 Tibfib: All the bad reviews from that guy are, "Not working. I want my money back!" Feb 17 22:07:13 i downloaded phonegap yesterday, didn't quite understand it Feb 17 22:07:15 to save screen space and make it work better Feb 17 22:07:23 Tibfib: Apple thinks gestures are for more than mobile Feb 17 22:07:24 dohtem: haha yeah lol Feb 17 22:07:48 ajay_: apple has to add gestures to subsitute for their poor multitasking Feb 17 22:07:51 CTLAdvance: even the internet explorer has it's fans, i know. Feb 17 22:08:12 Tibfib: I was referring to their desktop gestures Feb 17 22:08:20 ajay_: oh Feb 17 22:08:33 i think i voted for magic trackpad on the engadget poll Feb 17 22:08:35 that's different... desktop !==== tablet Feb 17 22:08:50 CTLAdvance: if you like it, why not... for me this criteria is knocking out Feb 17 22:08:51 * ajay_ believes in gestures for ALL devices Feb 17 22:09:51 leiru - Its not just about me liking it, its about legacy support, and use with business... IE9 RC still knocks out the new release of chrome Feb 17 22:09:59 ajay_: hmm, you never know, pre 4 may not have a gesture bar but I'll bet it will Feb 17 22:10:30 Tibfib: if the tablet that comes out after the pre 3 has it, i'll believe you.. Feb 17 22:10:37 otherwise, i'll more likely believe there will be no pre4 Feb 17 22:10:42 so hay guys :) Feb 17 22:10:45 hows it going Feb 17 22:10:56 Pre3 & Veer==last Palm devices=> last with gestures Feb 17 22:10:57 why not add an extra 100px for a gesture area and let the devs decide if they need it Feb 17 22:11:03 anyone have a xbox 360 and want Alan Wake? download code on amazon for $1.74 Feb 17 22:11:04 provide an gesture api Feb 17 22:11:05 http://twitter.com/#!/majornelson/status/38294296570503168 Feb 17 22:11:13 ajay_: you're missing my point or I'm not expressing it clearly. I think palm doesn't think a talbet NEEDS it. enyo is not about scene stacks. Feb 17 22:11:20 CTLAdvance: sounds like a good WOI project! Feb 17 22:11:21 whoa, thanks dawm! Feb 17 22:11:24 CTLAdvance: but what i have @ the devices that are sold? IE7 and we switch them to the old mobile portals, excluding them from webapps. Feb 17 22:11:50 dawm: holy cow Feb 17 22:11:55 CTLAdvance: about the future, no plan at all Feb 17 22:11:58 sadly i bought it when it first was released.. but its totally not worth $1.74 heh great game! Feb 17 22:12:04 i can say what's now. Feb 17 22:12:19 Tibfib: i know they think that.. ;^) but! scene stacks are not incompatible with gestures.. not to mention you won't always be in a scene stack Feb 17 22:12:24 sucks its $8.99 shipping.. Feb 17 22:12:26 (hopefully not at least) Feb 17 22:12:29 meh, the shipping is crazy Feb 17 22:12:30 er 7.99 Feb 17 22:12:59 are we talking about the tab not having the gesture bar? Feb 17 22:13:09 ajay_: umm, I'm saying enyo is NOT about scene stacks, therefore it doesn't need a gesture bar Feb 17 22:13:16 (a tablet) Feb 17 22:13:20 PatrickC_Home: yep Feb 17 22:13:31 ok Feb 17 22:13:37 then i did read correctly Feb 17 22:13:38 yeah, and I have no doubt that the phone on tablet not-an-emulator thingy will have a gesture area Feb 17 22:13:49 are we still going to put a gesture bar in our apps in protest? Feb 17 22:13:50 oops, thought you were referring to the panels when you said scene stacks.. s// in my above stmts :) Feb 17 22:14:02 is it me or has eclips never shipped a propper installer for windows Feb 17 22:14:05 PatrickC_Home: I'm down! Feb 17 22:14:15 however, enyo on a phone will probably still need gestures since it kinda uses the scene metaphor Feb 17 22:14:23 PatrickC_Home: this all started when i said i'd leave if the post-pre3 phones didn't have a gesture area Feb 17 22:14:26 ok, now we just need someoneto code it :) Feb 17 22:14:46 ajay_: only time will tell Feb 17 22:15:06 Tibfib: HPalm's been pretty clear about it thusfar Feb 17 22:15:08 This whole gestures vs no gestures is rediculous, just go with both on screen nav, and gestures, and maybe even provide a simple api for gestures for devs with apps Feb 17 22:15:18 WHats a forward swipe do Feb 17 22:15:19 back Feb 17 22:15:21 up Feb 17 22:15:24 double tap Feb 17 22:15:27 single tap Feb 17 22:15:31 meta-tap Feb 17 22:15:33 etc in the gesture area Feb 17 22:15:34 i'm hoping time (or our pressure/protests!) will change their mind Feb 17 22:15:52 how will we meta-tap? Feb 17 22:15:52 Its funny how they are removing things that made the system unique Feb 17 22:15:55 I smell ipaq Feb 17 22:16:11 CTLAdvance: Sounds very businessman-like, no? Feb 17 22:16:20 what does? Feb 17 22:16:32 i love gestures, and i dont want to see them go Feb 17 22:16:38 we need to start a petition :) Feb 17 22:16:40 gesture area will disappear ?? Feb 17 22:16:47 This is what I was asying Feb 17 22:16:51 meh Feb 17 22:16:51 *facepalm* Feb 17 22:16:55 removing things that differentiate/make a product standout, just because it's new and innovative and thus has a learning curve Feb 17 22:16:57 loic_m: yes Feb 17 22:17:06 PatrickC_Home: I'm down! Feb 17 22:17:14 hrm. Feb 17 22:17:14 ok, whos in? Feb 17 22:17:16 arg, such a stupid decision Feb 17 22:17:22 i know Feb 17 22:17:34 lets all picket-sign outside palm/hp HQ Feb 17 22:17:35 then my apps will contain stupid backbuttons like iphone apps. Feb 17 22:17:35 Tibfib: hey Feb 17 22:17:36 ajay_: I sincerely doubt that's why they removed it Feb 17 22:17:37 if we could get 90-95% of 3rd part tablet apps to support a virtual gesture area taking 1/3 screen space, in protest with the comment, this virtual gesture are wouldnt be here if HP didnt kill the gesture area Feb 17 22:17:38 loic_m: Hm, looks like we have consensus! Feb 17 22:17:45 dohtem: hey ? Feb 17 22:17:47 it's only being ditched on not-phones, right? Feb 17 22:17:50 Tibfib: PM Feb 17 22:18:03 ajay_> eheh, where's the petition ? ;) Feb 17 22:18:05 sugardave: so far. I assume it will stay that way Feb 17 22:18:09 Tibfib: there's no reason to doubt Feb 17 22:18:11 sugardave: no Feb 17 22:18:20 ajay_: you were doubting! Feb 17 22:18:31 I was trying to say why it wasn't getting removed lol Feb 17 22:18:32 CTLAdvance, im with it Feb 17 22:18:40 did HP give an explanation about this decision ? Feb 17 22:18:52 they gave one we cant repeat right now Feb 17 22:18:59 how is it going to work on the PCs and netbooks? Feb 17 22:19:18 same way it would on a tablet Feb 17 22:19:26 without a gesture area. Feb 17 22:19:35 Why not add one there as well Feb 17 22:19:39 lets all bug chuq till they fix it :) Feb 17 22:19:45 its only a .25" section of touch sensor Feb 17 22:19:45 how are you going to swipe in it? Feb 17 22:19:50 just something to think about: our android apps (androids have a back-button) always contain backbuttons like iphone. why? because the customers (other businesses) want it and all knowing iphone, but not the concept of android. Feb 17 22:20:03 you reach up, and use your finger sugardave? Feb 17 22:20:11 my laptop's display, unfortunatley, does nothing except get fingerprints on it Feb 17 22:20:11 just like the touch screen pc's today? Feb 17 22:20:24 it has to stay on phones, at least Feb 17 22:20:32 sugardave: to more fully answer your q, a Palm rep on feb9 said it was going away for all Feb 17 22:20:39 bogus Feb 17 22:20:44 stupid Feb 17 22:20:46 WebOS was mentioned for touch pc's only from what ive heard, which leads to the door ship all pc;s with touch> Feb 17 22:20:47 ? Feb 17 22:21:24 * ajay_ feels like he's cursed to open LOTS of tabs, eek! Feb 17 22:21:37 so we'll need to buy several Pre 3 to use them for years :) Feb 17 22:21:55 loic_m yep Feb 17 22:22:01 now wait a minute, I thought we were getting webOS on PCs, not "some PCs" Feb 17 22:22:06 loic_m: haha.. good luck getting webOS 4 on those! Feb 17 22:22:20 and dont buy and tabs till they put the gesture bar back Feb 17 22:22:21 The only valid reason they can have as to why its going away is for cost reasons, which I am sure they will never admit to, just for the simple fact that they could build it in, and allow devs access to a gesture api Feb 17 22:22:21 ajay_> huhu Feb 17 22:22:33 so what ever reason they give aside from cost cutting, is bogus Feb 17 22:22:48 though, I do agree with the need for onscreen nav for noobs Feb 17 22:23:08 Palm getting rid of gestures is like.. what if Palm never did graffiti Feb 17 22:23:17 gesture area is sooo good to use, i can't imagine it will disappear Feb 17 22:23:21 the on-screen nav is fine, but LEAVE THE GESTURE AREA! Feb 17 22:23:37 loic_m: then don't think about it:) Feb 17 22:23:53 i hate using a phone that doesnt have a gesture area, it makes it hard for me to use the phone Feb 17 22:24:01 ajay_> I need to talk to them ! ^^ Feb 17 22:24:04 ajay_: oh, I thought you were saying "don't doubt, it will still be there" Feb 17 22:24:10 PatricC_Home thats what I am saying, they dont want to build a gesture area and gesture api for cost, only thing I can figure Feb 17 22:24:13 i used my friends android device the other day, and it was sooo hard for me to use it, as it doesnt have a gesture bar Feb 17 22:24:14 PatrickC_Home: Are you really going to start a petition? I'm down for a protest too Feb 17 22:24:31 no, we need to though Feb 17 22:24:44 i couldnt get out to Sunnyvale, but we can start one online Feb 17 22:24:45 folks, how would a back gesture work on the touchpad with enyo? Feb 17 22:24:48 i will sign it, if you go for that Feb 17 22:24:48 Why not both, sign the petition, get the source for the virtual 1/3 screen virtual nave bar... Feb 17 22:24:50 like on the forums Feb 17 22:25:03 hay sineot Feb 17 22:25:06 enyo doesn't work with back gestgures.. Feb 17 22:25:20 the tab doesnt have a gesture bar Feb 17 22:25:21 enyo doesnt work with back gestures because they made you think it doesnt Feb 17 22:25:25 anything is possible Feb 17 22:25:39 PatrickC_Home: I know, just giving a reason why it doesn't work Feb 17 22:25:46 how do you go into card view on the tab? Feb 17 22:25:52 center button Feb 17 22:25:57 you cant swipe up Feb 17 22:26:00 center button Feb 17 22:26:03 like on the Pre-? Feb 17 22:26:08 no you hit the center button, just like ipad Feb 17 22:26:16 CTLAdvance: I honestly think they removed it because they aren't needed for a tablet. Feb 17 22:26:24 sigh.. oh well. Feb 17 22:26:27 bbl Feb 17 22:26:32 oh no, I was stuck with that button when I tried an ipad :( Feb 17 22:26:35 I think playbook shows they are immensely useful Feb 17 22:26:50 ipad stinks Feb 17 22:27:19 I was hoping to have a tablet with the gesture area, arg, so deceptive Feb 17 22:27:31 I wonder how long Mat takes before he helps get gestures into android Feb 17 22:27:34 Palm.... one question Feb 17 22:27:41 WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Feb 17 22:27:56 CTLAdvance> we could bet about that ;) Feb 17 22:28:25 Tibfib: I honestly think they removed it because the tablet (hardware) was already developer Feb 17 22:28:29 d Feb 17 22:28:40 mm yes we could... I have a feeling they lost most of the talent because they didnt like there vision of webOS, now we dont have any gestures Feb 17 22:28:52 maybe it will come out in the AwesomePad Feb 17 22:28:58 awesomepad? Feb 17 22:29:11 corporations don't like visions, imagination, creativity. they make suits _VERY_ uncomfortable Feb 17 22:29:21 that's why Sood left Feb 17 22:29:33 Thats not true Feb 17 22:29:44 K now plenty of companies that like those things Feb 17 22:29:46 however Feb 17 22:29:51 I* Feb 17 22:30:02 * leiru not. :) Feb 17 22:30:08 the companies that like those things are.. more rare Feb 17 22:30:09 I think the gesture area was seen as an cost that wasnt needed Feb 17 22:30:12 anyone get the VZW Pre2 doctor? Feb 17 22:30:49 CTLAdvance: i think it had more to do with the fact that the HP Slate (hardware) was already developed and ready-to-go Feb 17 22:30:52 actually, i don't know: maybe costs, maybe getting closer to the ipad and not confusing people that used the ipad before. Feb 17 22:31:12 CTLAdvance> problem is that they're wrong on that point as gesture area is part of webOS "success" Feb 17 22:31:17 leiru: heh, HP thought a gesture area was too advanced for mindless zombies Feb 17 22:31:18 ajay - I heard that the gesture was already part of the preproduction systems and removed when they decided to improve webOS and go to 3.0 Feb 17 22:31:30 sugardave: yeah you got it Feb 17 22:31:32 CTLAdvance: preproduction Palm Tablets, or HP Tablets? Feb 17 22:31:34 removed from the software, not the preproduction hardware Feb 17 22:31:38 both Feb 17 22:32:04 hey Feb 17 22:32:19 CTLAdvance: So when you say "both", you mean the HP Slate running windows had a gesture area? Feb 17 22:32:30 no sorry Feb 17 22:32:36 the touchpad Feb 17 22:32:59 Ithe palm pad also equals hp pad because it was branded hp Feb 17 22:33:01 CTLAdvance: And you also mean that Palm was working on tablets pre-HP? Feb 17 22:33:19 Thats what I would say yes Feb 17 22:33:22 ajay_: I think it's kind of obvious they were Feb 17 22:33:55 if they were, then my vote is Palm tablets->Completely scrapped. HP slates=> remove windows, install webOS Feb 17 22:34:09 ajay - the thing is with the gesture area, if only 10% know how to use it vs on screen nav methods, its not a feature which is widely used vs, power users Feb 17 22:34:18 but the power users are who promote and sell the devices Feb 17 22:34:21 so Feb 17 22:34:34 CTLAdvance: that's why there's that gesture intro in 2.x Feb 17 22:34:38 if its a cost they dont want to carry just for 10% of users.... Feb 17 22:34:41 CTLAdvance: agreed Feb 17 22:34:51 (about power users, not about cost) Feb 17 22:35:07 I am not sure I know anyone who actually watched that Feb 17 22:35:11 (well, maybe agree that they saw it as an unneeded cost and ditched it..) Feb 17 22:35:26 CTLAdvance: based on this, i would really tend to say, they don't want to confuse the user. Feb 17 22:35:31 Out of all the webSO users I know (aside from devs and power users) general people... no one really cared about it Feb 17 22:35:35 like the way apple simplifies all Feb 17 22:35:46 leiru - I would agree Feb 17 22:35:55 which is why I think there is nothing anyone here can do Feb 17 22:36:13 though I think thye should have provided an emphasis on both, its game over Feb 17 22:36:18 for the gesture area Feb 17 22:36:18 okay: I think that, for reals, with the tablet, the gesture area went away just because it doesn't scale very well to a screen that size Feb 17 22:36:32 why wouldnt it scale? Feb 17 22:36:44 scales well on playbook.... Feb 17 22:36:46 similar uses Feb 17 22:36:47 CTLAdvance: but thats a question, as developer i always ask myself: how stupid are end-users. what stupid comments they write for my app. and all the other stupid people in the internet. Feb 17 22:36:50 it goes from a fluid, short range motion of the thumb to something way massive Feb 17 22:37:06 why cant it stay the same Feb 17 22:37:17 nah, you could just have evenmore granularity and nuance in the gesture system Feb 17 22:37:23 they have control over how big of a gesture they are monitoring for Feb 17 22:37:36 or small Feb 17 22:37:51 they are to stupid to learn. they want to use. like a tv. hit the "on"-button and just turn brain off. Feb 17 22:37:57 and if your holding say the bottom corner, you could use just a thumbswipe worth at the corner Feb 17 22:38:00 no need for the middlke Feb 17 22:38:09 Once Apple introduces gestures into the iPhone (5?), it'll go from 10% to 90% Feb 17 22:38:13 HPalm will be behind Feb 17 22:38:36 ajay_: they will not, gestures are to complicated for the main-end-user Feb 17 22:38:41 ajay - lol if they do that.... Feb 17 22:38:42 playbook before that.. android after.. blackberry phones coming soon Feb 17 22:39:09 leiru: okay, I'll hedge my bets and say 51% will be using gestures. Will you take that bet from me? Feb 17 22:39:10 ajay_: they would have to read a manual and to learn in a minimalistic way. Feb 17 22:39:21 * sugardave laughs. Feb 17 22:39:26 read Feb 17 22:39:28 manual Feb 17 22:39:30 pshaw Feb 17 22:39:40 *g* Feb 17 22:39:48 1 year out from Apple's launch of a gesture device, 51% of users will be familiar with gestures Feb 17 22:39:55 users know a manual exists ? ;) Feb 17 22:40:12 ajay you know what... apple will also be praised for being so awesome for them Feb 17 22:40:18 loic_m: lol! Feb 17 22:40:29 CTLAdvance: Steve jobs will have "invented" gestures i'm sure! Feb 17 22:40:32 its called a quick start guide now Feb 17 22:40:49 * CTLAdvance I am sure they came from symbian, just like original cards did Feb 17 22:41:12 ajay_> so true ;) Feb 17 22:41:55 qucik start guide or manual --- even if i write a mail to collegues, containing more than 3 sentences, they aren't able to read. Feb 17 22:42:12 * ajay_ bought the Vz touchstone bundle, didn't realize it didn't come with cables.. ;^) Feb 17 22:42:22 99% of humans aren't able to read, in my opinion Feb 17 22:42:25 leiru - then people you work with shouldnt have their jobs Feb 17 22:42:27 The Apple iBall. It's just a ball, with no output mechanism, just input, from gestures as the whole thing is one big gesture area. It will be revolutionary. Feb 17 22:42:43 ahah Feb 17 22:43:09 CTLAdvance: or posting @ palm dev forums ;) Feb 17 22:43:51 also if they actually build it on the screen, they could or devs could have a note pop up in the black area, Swipe back to go back Feb 17 22:44:01 okay, it's late in germany now. Feb 17 22:44:07 anyways Feb 17 22:44:14 leiru> in france too ;) Feb 17 22:44:15 wish you a nice evening, here it's midnight soon Feb 17 22:44:27 * ajay_ notes no one willing to take his bet Feb 17 22:44:48 ajay_> about gesture area on next iOS ? Feb 17 22:44:54 btw. did metaview quit for all time? Feb 17 22:45:08 he quit? Feb 17 22:45:22 loic_m: more about simple majority of users familiar with gestures Feb 17 22:45:59 CTLAdvance: that was my question... if he quit or just holidays/personal foo... Feb 17 22:46:06 not eryone likes 9th feb. Feb 17 22:46:07 ah Feb 17 22:46:15 fo sho Feb 17 22:46:25 PatrickC_Home: well, let me know about that petition! Feb 17 22:46:26 hrmm. my laptop just made a crunching noise Feb 17 22:46:29 methinks its time for food.. Feb 17 22:46:30 I know a few people going android to sit out a few hp device cycles Feb 17 22:46:46 lol, will do Feb 17 22:46:48 ajay_> well, I don't know but I'm not considering myself as a power user and gesture area is just a quick and easy feature to learn Feb 17 22:46:51 we need to start one with a poll on developer.palm.com Feb 17 22:46:51 Tibfib: I can't think of a situation where that's good Feb 17 22:47:02 You think when people on Apple's campus talk about Palm, they just refer to it as "Our R&D deptartment" ? Feb 17 22:47:08 Loudergood: yeah :O Feb 17 22:47:11 loic_m: once apple introduces gestures, it'll be for all, not just power users Feb 17 22:47:26 If I turn my laptop a bit it makes that noise Feb 17 22:47:28 loic_m: err, take back what I said, i misread you, and agree with you :) Feb 17 22:47:29 so the left side is up Feb 17 22:47:44 uh oh Feb 17 22:47:49 CTLAdvance: hrm, would be sad. he was talented i think Feb 17 22:47:57 if Apple introduces gestures, they're going to be annoying as hell Feb 17 22:48:00 PatrickC_Home: that could be cool too, but something more widespread too.. Feb 17 22:48:03 dgathright: heh Feb 17 22:48:06 the five finger to home screen gesture is terrible Feb 17 22:48:07 ajay_> agree too, about Apple help spreading gesture area ;) Feb 17 22:48:24 on P||C too Feb 17 22:48:27 So HPalm can be in the lead, or they can, 2-4 yrs from now, reintroduce gestures Feb 17 22:48:41 hmm, small puff of smoke came out and now it won't make the crunching noise again Feb 17 22:48:44 hey ajay_, you were the one talking abot a Slydial app, weren't you? Feb 17 22:48:48 SineOt: yes! Feb 17 22:48:55 time to make sure my dev stuff is getting backed up Feb 17 22:49:09 Tibfib: thats the fire feature Feb 17 22:49:25 it's an hp laptop. :O Feb 17 22:49:34 Its standard now Feb 17 22:49:37 a cheap one, tbh Feb 17 22:49:42 Its the "fun" feature they add Feb 17 22:49:47 ajay_: https://twitter.com/slydial/status/38308119486533632 sorry to steal your thunder ;x Feb 17 22:50:19 SineOt: sine: is that you?1 Feb 17 22:51:01 ajay_: yeah Feb 17 22:51:21 SineOt: ok, i misunderstood.. I had already emailled them and they said they'd email me "shortly" :) Feb 17 22:51:25 bbl Feb 17 22:51:52 oh, hah Feb 17 22:51:53 Well, I emailled their parent company, so maybe that's why i'm still waiting :) Feb 17 22:52:02 well, who knows! Feb 17 22:52:14 SineOt: feel free to continue.. I hit them up about them making an app, and if not, then giving me blessing Feb 17 22:52:29 SineOt: I'm really curious about what Palm was saying, that it's supposedly easy to take iOS apps to WebOs Feb 17 22:52:42 hello Feb 17 22:52:51 SineOt: It'd be neat if we could just port their iOS app straight, that'd be ideal i think, and then we could webOS-ify it as appropriate Feb 17 22:52:56 (you know, adding GESTURES and stuff) Feb 17 22:52:58 yeah Feb 17 22:53:05 heh, got a pre3 trying to run koto player Feb 17 22:53:12 * Tibfib needs to a bit to get it pre3 ready Feb 17 22:53:18 from what I've seen of iOS stuff it's easy to port if it's entirely using custom UIs Feb 17 22:53:28 but if it's using iOS UI stuff then it becomes a lot harder Feb 17 22:53:29 Tibfib> you have a pre3 ? Feb 17 22:53:36 hmm.. interesting Feb 17 22:53:38 loic_m: no, from metrix Feb 17 22:53:43 ah ok Feb 17 22:54:20 SineOt: i can't believe they gave you their email.. am i the only person that believes email addresses don't belong (plaintxt at leasT) on the internet?! Feb 17 22:54:32 Is it the right place to ask about PDK on linux? Feb 17 22:54:43 jeepers.. ;^) Feb 17 22:54:55 ajay_: it's apparently their support email, so it's probably out there all over the internet to begin with Feb 17 22:55:03 SineOt: Ok, i just hit follow on twitter so we can be in touch on there.. Feb 17 22:55:12 * ajay_ would never put ANY email addresses 'out there' Feb 17 22:55:23 well, correction: any non-disposable addresses Feb 17 22:55:24 even a support email? :p Feb 17 22:55:30 hmm.. good question. Feb 17 22:55:35 I'd prefer a webform Feb 17 22:55:42 makes it hard for people to contact you for support..! Feb 17 22:56:00 they can have the email address, it just can't be published on the website Feb 17 22:56:02 j-b: there is no official pdk on linux Feb 17 22:56:04 any website Feb 17 22:56:21 joetweeply: next petition -- PDK for Linux! :) Feb 17 22:56:41 wooh Feb 17 22:56:44 pdk for linux Feb 17 22:56:48 hell yeah Feb 17 22:56:55 i asked for that long time ago Feb 17 22:56:59 joetweeply: and the unofficial is not recommended? not complete? Feb 17 22:57:02 never going to happen Feb 17 22:57:03 SineOt: i don't actually follow twitter well, so let's be in touch Feb 17 22:57:16 rwhitby: why? Feb 17 22:57:24 where is the documentation on how to utilize the notification bar? Feb 17 22:57:24 j-b: heard you have to do some hacks, if you want to submit afterwards. Feb 17 22:57:26 j-b: actually i don't know.. but i always stay with the official stuff when i want to be in the app catalog Feb 17 22:57:50 Palm has determined that the percentage of webOS developers wanting to develop on Linux is less than 10%. Therefore it is not economically viable to support a Linux PDK. Feb 17 22:58:09 * ajay_ thinks HPalm needs to stop "determining" things Feb 17 22:58:15 what a pity Feb 17 22:58:15 econ viable? sounds like a 10-minute port Feb 17 22:58:17 PatrickC_Home: just a shot in the dark, but... developer.palm.com ? Feb 17 22:58:20 leiru: can I access opengl and output audio with it? Feb 17 22:58:25 (note that much more than 10% of developers *inside* palm use Linux. they are talking about external developers) Feb 17 22:58:28 i looked SineOt Feb 17 22:58:30 10 minute port, life time support though ajay_ Feb 17 22:58:32 ok, maybe a little more.. Feb 17 22:58:37 haha Feb 17 22:58:49 i compile it in a separate xp machine but develop on linux, that works fine j-b Feb 17 22:58:51 ajay_: the key problem is how to due emulated OpenGL support on "Linux" Feb 17 22:59:05 joetweeply: can apps be installed outside catalogs (by the way) ? Feb 17 22:59:13 j-b: i just heard, you have to do some hacks, if you want to upload into store. and read the guide to it, and together it wasn't a solution for me. Feb 17 22:59:27 there is this web feed j-b Feb 17 22:59:34 j-b: if you have a device already, download the Preware Homebrew Documentation app and have a read about homebrew Feb 17 22:59:41 rwhitby: hm, i know not what that could mean, but i said i was going minutes ago.. ;^) Feb 17 22:59:47 j-b: you can therotically set up your own feed. Feb 17 22:59:53 rwhitby: ok, thx. Feb 17 22:59:59 leiru: and normal user can install it then? Feb 17 23:00:09 no. :( Feb 17 23:00:23 but anyone who is using Preware can Feb 17 23:00:32 not good for me then :D Feb 17 23:00:51 Dang! koto is super close to being 480x800 ready Feb 17 23:00:57 Ok. Anyone using Qt/Palm around here? Feb 17 23:01:35 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=9907 Feb 17 23:01:46 so you could build your own store/ecosystem Feb 17 23:01:51 j-b: what do you refer to as Qt/Palm ? Feb 17 23:02:13 but who would use it, from the critical mass? Feb 17 23:02:35 leiru: I bet I could :D Feb 17 23:02:44 rwhitby: the port of Qt on pre Feb 17 23:02:52 doh Feb 17 23:02:57 meh Feb 17 23:03:03 :D Feb 17 23:03:03 i knew i should have favorited that tweet about object cloning Feb 17 23:03:07 it's been talking about here today Feb 17 23:03:51 j-b: that requires Preware too Feb 17 23:04:32 rwhitby: could I compile the whole Qt+my app using the normal PDK? Feb 17 23:04:37 dawm: what do you need? Feb 17 23:04:44 need to clone an object Feb 17 23:04:46 Object.clone(theObject); ? Feb 17 23:04:54 does that work? Feb 17 23:04:55 j-b: what's the big picture of what you want to do here? Feb 17 23:05:02 it does a shallow copy, I think Feb 17 23:05:06 someone in the webos community tweeted a method, but i cant find it Feb 17 23:05:08 sugardave: yep Feb 17 23:05:10 oh i need deep as can be Feb 17 23:05:15 oh Feb 17 23:05:18 well Feb 17 23:05:21 dawm: JSON.parse(JSON.stringify(obj)); Feb 17 23:05:21 rwhitby: port a Qt application Feb 17 23:05:29 j-b: and ... Feb 17 23:05:30 hey, that's slick Feb 17 23:05:35 * Tibfib uses that in koto Feb 17 23:05:44 deep clone Feb 17 23:05:45 hrm Feb 17 23:05:50 lemme try Feb 17 23:05:58 will get rid of prototype'd functions and such Feb 17 23:06:01 rwhitby: distribute to normal users, as we do on most other OSes Feb 17 23:06:26 oh no Feb 17 23:06:28 j-b: through the official app catalog, or through the web or beta feeds? Feb 17 23:06:28 i need the func's Feb 17 23:06:50 j-b: I'm presuming you've read the doco on the different Palm feeds ... Feb 17 23:07:00 dawm: what func's do you need? Feb 17 23:07:04 rwhitby: seriously, I don't know yet. Any way where a normal user can install it. Feb 17 23:07:09 rwhitby: I am reading it now, yes Feb 17 23:07:12 all the ones in my object :P Feb 17 23:07:22 it will keep those Feb 17 23:07:27 I think Feb 17 23:07:45 j-b: it is probably technically possible to port a Qt app for deployment in the app catalog. Feb 17 23:07:46 it should Feb 17 23:07:50 keep them Feb 17 23:07:54 It's hard to explain because I don't know it very well, but most likely it will work for you dawm Feb 17 23:08:02 ill try Feb 17 23:08:09 yeah, only one way to find out! Feb 17 23:09:34 yeah it doesnt like it :P Feb 17 23:09:42 rwhitby: it seems I could create a community directory as a feed for our app Feb 17 23:09:49 Converting circular structure to JSON Feb 17 23:10:52 dawm: for loop Feb 17 23:11:12 underscore FTW Feb 17 23:11:25 hyphen FTBW Feb 17 23:11:42 caret FTPN Feb 17 23:11:55 for (var prop in obj) { // cloneObj.prop = obj.prop} Feb 17 23:12:05 will only work for top level props, modiy to recurse :D Feb 17 23:12:07 sugardave: that's not a deep clone though Feb 17 23:12:10 nah i got one Feb 17 23:12:10 modify Feb 17 23:12:15 gotcha Feb 17 23:12:19 and it appears to work Feb 17 23:12:22 yay Feb 17 23:12:25 lies Feb 17 23:12:38 oh, zbenjamin was here... I bet he was the one speaking of Qt Feb 17 23:12:39 just kidding, I'm not a jerk who would say something like that Feb 17 23:12:44 dawm: congrats! Feb 17 23:12:46 hahaha Feb 17 23:12:53 http://webos.pastebin.com/J9fR3nmR Feb 17 23:12:59 it works well enough for what i need it to Feb 17 23:13:10 now i need canvas to stop clearing itself ;p Feb 17 23:13:26 ugh, I hate the trackpad on the Wind U100... SO much Feb 17 23:13:43 isn't that the same as doing Object.clone()? Feb 17 23:13:44 I was close Feb 17 23:13:49 dawm: if you want a decent netbook I don't think you can really beat the Wind U100, especially if it's the one with the magic F10 key Feb 17 23:14:01 you want it to be var property in the () though Feb 17 23:14:05 um no? heh Feb 17 23:14:14 ive got my macbook, mini9 and an ibm thinkpad Feb 17 23:14:18 i really only use the macbook Feb 17 23:14:25 no need for another portable to sit on the shelf Feb 17 23:14:32 the mini9 is only for my drag car Feb 17 23:15:40 with how you were talking about the Mini9 I thought you wanted to get rid of it haha Feb 17 23:15:40 rwhitby: leiru: thx for the infos. Feb 17 23:16:26 * SineOt turned his Wind U100 into a Macbook Nano :p Feb 17 23:16:49 i still have to thru win7 on it, if its still crappy then, ill take out that 32gb ssd and put back in the original 4gb and see if i can nLite XP down to fit, cause i really think its that eBay SSD (that was highly recommended) Feb 17 23:17:36 who built the SSD? Feb 17 23:22:39 lol it was so long ago Feb 17 23:25:43 what a mess android is... installing like 5 sdk's at once :( Feb 17 23:25:58 what crap is this Feb 17 23:26:05 fail? Feb 17 23:26:38 soo an empty (about:blank) tab in chrome uses 2,600K or memory Feb 17 23:26:51 eh chrome is baaaad Feb 17 23:26:56 lol Feb 17 23:26:58 ie9, opera or ff Feb 17 23:27:15 you make me cry CTLAdvance :'( Feb 17 23:27:16 * halfhalo hearts chrome for its fastness Feb 17 23:27:24 look at that :'( look at what you're doing to me... :'( Feb 17 23:27:48 chromes fastness is less than ie9/operas fastness Feb 17 23:27:59 on a mac and cant stand opera Feb 17 23:28:01 ff an safari make me sad Feb 17 23:28:02 :/ Feb 17 23:28:16 mah 2,600K of memory out of my 8,000,000K ;_; Feb 17 23:28:24 safari would work for me if it had a proper superbar, and boo ff Feb 17 23:28:30 my app, which just draws a bunch of random blocks to canvas, is using 7,772K Feb 17 23:28:36 i wonder if thats alot Feb 17 23:28:49 i was force to clone my sprite objects =/ Feb 17 23:29:05 all 286 of them Feb 17 23:30:29 lol Feb 17 23:32:03 lets see if they all rotate, how much cpu i can hog Feb 17 23:34:26 can we all agree how bad andoid is to dev for Feb 17 23:34:31 this is crap Feb 17 23:34:51 yes Feb 17 23:35:34 okay Feb 17 23:35:38 I'll trust you Feb 17 23:36:43 lol sugardave' Feb 17 23:36:44 I'm finding supporting the pre3 really annoying already, I don't think I could stand android Feb 17 23:37:03 115 Feb 17 23:37:14 lol tibfib - i just installed like 5 sdks in one swift swoop :/ Feb 17 23:37:24 and 5 sets of sample code Feb 17 23:38:10 wait Feb 17 23:38:15 7 sdks :( Feb 17 23:38:23 7 sets of samples Feb 17 23:39:02 google needs to enforce an eol policy for updates... Feb 17 23:39:09 oy Feb 17 23:39:09 Android is a mess to dev for, as soon as you don't do the basic app Feb 17 23:39:15 wow i think my sprite test killed my pre Feb 17 23:39:27 Tibfib: whyso? because Mojo widgets scale weird? Feb 17 23:39:28 nice Feb 17 23:39:52 SineOt: no, the mojo part is working pretty well Feb 17 23:40:05 it's my part :) Feb 17 23:40:08 heh Feb 17 23:40:16 your playback scroller thing on the bottom? Feb 17 23:40:20 (which is awesome btw...) Feb 17 23:40:25 nope, that works perfectly surprising ly Feb 17 23:40:34 the album art scroller Feb 17 23:40:51 odd thing to have issue with Feb 17 23:41:09 it works on the pre3 resolution.. just looks odd since I hardcoded the width values Feb 17 23:41:19 have to so I can get index properly Feb 17 23:41:33 bullshit Feb 17 23:41:33 but I didn't do it very well, so it's being a tad annoying to fix Feb 17 23:41:34 http://biocandy.com/dump/sprite_test/ Feb 17 23:41:37 heh Feb 17 23:41:38 OMG Feb 17 23:41:43 it crashed the browser Feb 17 23:41:47 my browser card just popped it self Feb 17 23:41:52 haha Feb 17 23:41:54 I still want to see how Carbon did their index thing Feb 17 23:42:07 they mentioned wanting to open source it but I haven't seen anything about it since Feb 17 23:42:14 SineOt: it's pretty easy Feb 17 23:42:17 getPosition() Feb 17 23:42:24 if it is ___ it is ___ Feb 17 23:42:34 getScrollPosition() or getScrollState()... Feb 17 23:42:40 something like that Feb 17 23:42:56 yeah, but theirs is way more responsive than the one I've got set up Feb 17 23:43:31 ugh Feb 17 23:43:38 maybe i need to revisit my c++ version Feb 17 23:43:46 altho i still need to learn c++ Feb 17 23:48:14 I wonder if HP has plans to support a more robust dev environment Feb 17 23:48:28 thats not an online tool names ares Feb 17 23:48:57 Areser Feb 17 23:48:58 Ares is pretty robust though Feb 17 23:48:58 doubt it Feb 17 23:49:34 I went back through and played with it a bit and I don't think when I first used it that I realized how feature rich it is Feb 17 23:51:24 oh no.. Feb 17 23:51:32 monopoly for facebook... Feb 17 23:51:37 crap Feb 17 23:51:49 Uno is fun on facebook :B Feb 17 23:51:56 * dohtem buys up Boardwalk and Park Place! Feb 17 23:51:59 I like Scramble Feb 17 23:52:04 but Word Ace/Card Ace is better! Feb 17 23:52:06 I haven't played monopoly in years Feb 17 23:52:22 http://www.facebook.com/monopolymillionaires Feb 17 23:52:25 * sugardave kicks dohtem's ass and steals his money. Feb 17 23:52:28 I play it sometimes on the Wii with my girlfriend's family, they get WAY into it Feb 17 23:52:48 there's Monopoly on the Wii? Is it fun? Feb 17 23:52:56 It's monopoly! Feb 17 23:53:07 true :) Feb 17 23:53:11 There's a ton of altered game modes which is kind of cool Feb 17 23:53:35 graphics aren't the best but honestly it's freaking monopoly you don't need like FSAA!!! BLOOM!!! ULTRA SHADER EFFECTS! Feb 17 23:54:46 * Tibfib plays the pre version of monopoly Feb 18 00:02:31 what the fuck Feb 18 00:02:34 im in jail.. Feb 18 00:02:34 grr Feb 18 00:02:40 lol Feb 18 00:02:51 dont drop the soap Feb 18 00:07:37 bad news... Feb 18 00:07:46 local GSM carrier has "1G" data Feb 18 00:07:59 so, no switching from Sprint for haeffb Feb 18 00:08:22 unless....is there a "force data roaming" patch? Feb 18 00:08:26 wtf in jail again.. this game suck Feb 18 00:08:26 s Feb 18 00:11:14 LOL Feb 18 00:11:24 you can talk to chuck in monopoly on facebook Feb 18 00:11:31 chuck as in Charles Schwab Feb 18 00:11:43 gives you game tips.. Feb 18 00:11:44 wa the 10th like the biggest news for webos ... I check websites everyday and it's the same thing .. is it because webos is so stable ? Feb 18 00:11:54 s/wa/was Feb 18 00:12:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uyxVmdaJ-w Feb 18 00:13:05 lolz Feb 18 00:30:57 rwhitby: where do I need to go to learn how to put my Sprint comms board into a GSM Pre 2? Feb 18 00:32:20 haeffb: note that we don't yet know whether the verizon doctor will work. so you shouldn't do it on your main device yet Feb 18 00:33:10 rwhitby: Is the Verizon Pre2 doctor on the Wiki or not? :/ Can't find it. Can find the SFR one, the unlocked one, but Verizon Wireless still only has the Pre+ and Pixi+ listed as categories Feb 18 00:33:18 what issues remain? Feb 18 00:33:27 SineOt: have you refreshed the page? Feb 18 00:33:54 probably 12 times now Feb 18 00:33:55 haeffb: same as what were present at NYC dev day Feb 18 00:34:09 SineOt: I posted it Feb 18 00:34:10 * haeffb only sees Pre+ and Pixi+ as well Feb 18 00:34:15 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions#Pre_2_2 Feb 18 00:35:10 haeffb: at least it wasn't just me Feb 18 00:35:45 rwhitby: I still have TEP on my main device... Feb 18 00:36:02 which you will void if you do this Feb 18 00:36:23 really? I can drop it in the toilet, but not take it apart? Feb 18 00:36:59 the former does not cause the carrier and manufacturer to blame WebOS Internals for inciting your actions Feb 18 00:37:40 ha...you have no idea how many times oil makes me think "Man, I oughta just throw this thing in the toilet!" Feb 18 00:37:46 unless they try and make some line with wIRC usage ... Feb 18 00:38:04 oil/wirc Feb 18 00:39:03 haha Feb 18 00:39:40 it would be damn hard to post mortem one that accidentally got run over with a steamroller Feb 18 00:40:00 "these were the only pieces I could find" Feb 18 00:40:52 in any case, it wouldn't be wosi inciting me to do it. It would be Sprint and their decision not to carry the Pre 2. Feb 18 00:41:15 or one that was dropped in the lake. Feb 18 00:41:31 go ahead, drag the lake...see if I care Feb 18 00:41:34 but I did send back the one that was dropped in the Gulf of Mexico last week. Feb 18 00:42:47 "HP webOS. Now in S, M, L." Feb 18 00:43:01 no love for the XS Feb 18 00:43:07 should be "HP webOS. Someday in S, M, L." Feb 18 00:43:14 heh Feb 18 00:44:42 * oil makes you want to throw things in the toilet? Feb 18 00:45:13 oil makes your hands slippery Feb 18 00:46:12 oil makes your car go Feb 18 00:46:21 that is gasoline Feb 18 00:46:33 refined from oil Feb 18 00:46:36 also lubes Feb 18 00:47:02 wars are fought over me :) Feb 18 00:47:11 also killed millions of animals when i spill Feb 18 00:49:35 words with friends need to come to webos Feb 18 00:55:08 http://www.facebook.com/notes/paz/i-crashed-paris-hiltons-birthday-and-accidentally-the-whole-cake/10150122373449777 - (via reddit) dude steal a whole cake! Feb 18 00:55:20 steals* Feb 18 00:55:41 re Feb 18 00:55:44 * haeffb was just trying to find a roundabout way of blaming oil for wanting to throw things in the toilet. Feb 18 00:55:51 quick q - any suggestions on a public/free Svn/Mercurial Repo? Feb 18 00:55:52 oh Feb 18 00:55:55 thats ok then Feb 18 00:55:58 ha Feb 18 00:56:06 oil: don't throw things in the toilet Feb 18 00:56:09 my app is broken for others, but not for me. Feb 18 00:56:17 so, it's their fault, right? Feb 18 00:56:18 * oil only throws turds in the toilet Feb 18 00:56:45 throw? as in with your hands? Feb 18 00:57:02 with my sphincter Feb 18 00:57:04 * haeffb regrets shaking oil's hand at dev day NYC Feb 18 00:57:16 oh. well, that's better. Feb 18 00:57:33 lol Feb 18 00:57:34 and the only one who touches that is my doctor Feb 18 00:57:38 checking for colon cancer Feb 18 00:57:44 oil: asphinctersayswhat Feb 18 00:57:45 so he says Feb 18 00:57:45 oil you monitoring twitter ? Feb 18 00:57:48 prehensile sphincter? Feb 18 00:58:02 well my grandfather had colon cancer and beat it Feb 18 00:58:05 so now im high-risk Feb 18 00:58:11 lame Feb 18 00:58:14 yeah Feb 18 00:58:17 damn Feb 18 00:58:31 oil: I could trade one for a Sprint pixi with clean ESN... Feb 18 00:58:42 Pre, not a turd. Feb 18 00:58:53 * oil has no sprint pixi Feb 18 00:58:55 just in case you were confusing conversations. Feb 18 00:59:21 well, change your plea to either, & I'll trade a Pre if you get a Pixi. Feb 18 00:59:47 or not...it needs to be a decent condition Pixi Feb 18 01:00:08 who is dontblameoil on twitter ? Feb 18 01:00:16 guess Feb 18 01:00:37 lol oil ? Feb 18 01:00:44 no Feb 18 01:00:49 an imposter Feb 18 01:01:00 an impostah Feb 18 01:03:07 ... Feb 18 01:03:32 anyone running there pre at 500mhz and lower and gerring good battery Feb 18 01:04:08 s/gerring/getting Feb 18 01:04:21 alright, just registering with assembla then Feb 18 01:07:15 there a way to go forward with a gesture on the pre ? I went forward also half swype ans nothing Feb 18 01:09:29 the web browser will let you, but apps would have to specially code that Feb 18 01:09:44 when you pop a scene from back swipe, it is gone FOREVER Feb 18 01:10:16 "forever" I thought the bits lived on somewhere in the ether. Feb 18 01:10:39 obiterated Feb 18 01:11:40 half-swipe FTW Feb 18 01:11:47 gotta turn on advanced gestures Feb 18 01:11:51 so full-swipe switches apps Feb 18 01:11:52 anybody using the version control feature in Ares? Feb 18 01:12:05 ajay_: all our stuff is git, and ares only does svn :/ Feb 18 01:13:38 man, I hope they fix that Feb 18 01:13:40 oil: I know, it's kinda surprising Feb 18 01:13:48 oil: But my question remains.. :) Feb 18 01:13:58 hopefully with ares v(whatever is next) Feb 18 01:14:02 oil: I have that on .. I know how to go back within an app I was wondering if I can go forward ... ie I'm using the browser and I go back 1 page how can I go forward to the page I had ? or do I have to go to history and just bring up the site I was at pre Feb 18 01:14:02 viously Feb 18 01:14:07 v1.01? :) Feb 18 01:14:29 It says 'add project completed' but it's so lying Feb 18 01:14:47 s/viously/previously Feb 18 01:20:22 does govnah have polling ? Feb 18 01:20:45 that's all it has Feb 18 01:21:18 well, at least bitbucket worked (mercurial) Feb 18 01:21:57 Tibfib: you use notepad++ ? Feb 18 01:28:57 does xcode4 hose up webos development? Feb 18 02:03:00 threat level midnight Feb 18 02:03:07 haeffb: yes Feb 18 02:04:52 does it do validation? Feb 18 02:05:03 javascript/html/css? Feb 18 02:05:07 haeffb: jslint type? Feb 18 02:05:10 yep Feb 18 02:05:13 nope Feb 18 02:05:19 there might be an add on Feb 18 02:05:22 doh. Feb 18 02:05:38 what makes it awesome? Feb 18 02:05:49 hey look at that Feb 18 02:05:52 there's a jslint plugin Feb 18 02:05:52 HAHA Feb 18 02:06:06 haeffb: clean and slick Feb 18 02:06:11 jsmin Feb 18 02:06:17 it can do js minification Feb 18 02:06:23 file comparison Feb 18 02:06:29 side by side file view Feb 18 02:08:01 haeffb: yep jslint works Feb 18 02:08:05 you run it and get feedback Feb 18 02:08:07 it's not live Feb 18 02:09:12 eclipse/aptana is live Feb 18 02:09:13 anyone watching the office? lol Feb 18 02:09:19 dvr Feb 18 02:09:22 haeffb: make less mistakes. Feb 18 02:09:35 good idea! Feb 18 02:10:58 haeffb: do you remember michael's threat level midnight movie? Feb 18 02:11:09 * oil sticks with eclipse Feb 18 02:11:29 eclipse is too much for me Feb 18 02:12:53 too much? Feb 18 02:12:57 bloated Feb 18 02:12:58 its free :) Feb 18 02:13:05 notepad++ is free AND open source Feb 18 02:13:15 isnt eclipse oss? Feb 18 02:13:22 * Tibfib dunnos Feb 18 02:13:23 yep Feb 18 02:13:49 hahaahahhah Feb 18 02:13:56 this is a great office episode Feb 18 02:14:06 * oil has been using eclipse for so long its like that worn in chair that is perfect even if its super ugly Feb 18 02:14:10 you gotta keep it around Feb 18 02:17:06 * haeffb wonders how to create an "Enyo" perspective in eclipse... Feb 18 02:17:37 * oil never messes with perspectives Feb 18 02:17:39 i got one Feb 18 02:17:43 called "brandon1" :) Feb 18 02:19:08 brandon is a weird name. why would you call it that? Feb 18 02:19:37 well i had to name it something Feb 18 02:20:03 lol Feb 18 02:20:31 oil: fiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeee Feb 18 02:20:46 * Tibfib meant to say stupid name Feb 18 02:20:53 though i could always rename it Feb 18 02:21:01 "whereAwesomeHappens" Feb 18 02:21:05 you should change it to "will1" Feb 18 02:21:16 "whereTheMagicHappens" Feb 18 02:21:28 no, there is no magic Feb 18 02:21:51 just awesome? Feb 18 02:22:16 yeah Feb 18 02:22:22 now you get it Feb 18 02:22:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WhoIsWho Feb 18 02:22:36 explains it Feb 18 02:22:37 :) Feb 18 02:22:41 how to add a run configuration for enyo apps...? Feb 18 02:23:03 run configuration = alt+tab f5 Feb 18 02:27:19 evenin' funkatron Feb 18 02:27:27 hello sir Feb 18 02:27:57 wrangle up any more spaz themes? Feb 18 02:28:11 alas, not yet Feb 18 02:31:37 slackers Feb 18 02:31:39 is tibfib around? Feb 18 02:31:44 rwhitby: agreed! 8D Feb 18 02:31:46 yep Feb 18 02:31:53 Tibfib: do you have a pre2? Feb 18 02:31:58 I do Feb 18 02:32:02 okay nm then 8D Feb 18 02:32:11 hah why? Feb 18 02:32:12 funkatron: I was referring to you and oil, of course. Feb 18 02:32:26 rwhitby: oh, right. well, still agreed. Feb 18 02:32:55 funkatron: want me to do a spaz-webos visualisation? Feb 18 02:33:01 rwhitby: those gource videos are cool Feb 18 02:33:06 rwhitby: that would be totally awesome Feb 18 02:33:14 funkatron: git URL ? Feb 18 02:33:27 https://github.com/funkatron/spaz-webos Feb 18 02:33:42 funkatron: you got a gravatar? Feb 18 02:34:01 yeah, I believe so, with coj@funkatron.com Feb 18 02:34:11 * Tibfib is gonna see himself in the spaz gource! Feb 18 02:34:16 gource. Feb 18 02:34:56 funkatron: does that match your git committer id? Feb 18 02:35:26 rwhitby: usually. if you see funkatron@gmail.com in there, that would be me too, but not sure I ever did that on that repo Feb 18 02:38:45 I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AH7XD3T3uM is my favorite Feb 18 02:39:38 haha Feb 18 02:40:21 seeing the popular sections :) Feb 18 02:40:47 psh, popular Feb 18 02:42:53 funkatron: png icon for Nick Carter? Feb 18 02:43:03 Tibfib: png icon for you? Feb 18 02:43:11 umm Feb 18 02:43:33 I guess you could grab this for Nick http://twitter.com/thynctank Feb 18 02:44:11 Tibfib: ? Feb 18 02:44:18 rwhitby: finding one Feb 18 02:44:52 rwhitby: hmm, jpg okay? http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Kool-Aid-Man-kevin-malone-376672_75_74.jpg Feb 18 02:45:19 gource===amazingness Feb 18 02:47:26 haha, kevin Feb 18 02:48:01 heh. I would use it as my twitter avatar but I don't think everyone would get it Feb 18 02:49:33 oil: you better be following me. :P Feb 18 02:49:37 lol Feb 18 02:49:55 * Tibfib kids Feb 18 02:49:57 but really Feb 18 02:51:14 * Tibfib found a better quality kevin avatar Feb 18 02:51:29 funkatron: about 5 mins to upload Feb 18 02:51:30 important Feb 18 02:51:34 yay Feb 18 02:52:05 * halfhalo doesn't have the horsepower to run gource at realtime or faster Feb 18 02:52:17 funkatron: I'll give you the URL and you can tweet it Feb 18 02:52:21 yay Feb 18 02:53:57 the video is 2 minutes long Feb 18 02:57:16 githubs homepage: 597,361 people hosting over 1,731,611 git repositories Feb 18 02:57:22 not the ratio i would have guessed Feb 18 02:57:58 almost 3 per person? Feb 18 02:58:16 lots of forks Feb 18 02:58:26 yeah, and lots of people using it for cheap storage Feb 18 02:58:27 or that many abandoned.... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 18 02:59:57 2011