**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 21 02:59:56 2011 Mar 21 03:30:52 I'm off to dreamland Mar 21 03:30:54 Night all Mar 21 03:32:39 good night PatrickC_Pre2 Mar 21 03:33:46 hey dkirker Mar 21 03:34:08 hi keith Mar 21 03:34:52 hows your browser compare to complete? Mar 21 03:34:59 Night dkirker. Can't wait for the next versin! Mar 21 03:35:07 S/versin/version/ Mar 21 03:35:22 can i beta it? Mar 21 03:35:37 yeah, send an email to beta@openmobl.com Mar 21 03:35:45 I probably won't process it tonight, though Mar 21 03:35:48 likely in the morning Mar 21 03:36:05 nice! and np Mar 21 03:36:10 Keith: its awesome! :) Mar 21 03:37:36 I would say that Complete is very lacking as a web browser Mar 21 03:41:17 dkirker: incomplete, you might say? ;) Mar 21 03:41:23 very Mar 21 03:41:27 rushed, too Mar 21 03:41:31 and not at all thought out Mar 21 03:41:40 Just from the screenshot, it looked like a UI disaster Mar 21 03:42:07 yea, its kinda hard to hit those little buttons Mar 21 03:42:18 but i felt it was a good 1st effor,t worth $1 Mar 21 03:44:32 i don't get why one would want tabbed browsing on webOS, but maybe I've been spoiled by running 2.0 with stacks Mar 21 07:37:39 just got 2.1.0 on a Pre-. its nice, but some things like terminal and the shell aren't quite working properly... shrugs. Mar 21 07:38:22 anybody on? Mar 21 07:40:06 am I in the wrong room? Mar 21 07:42:48 seems not. unfortunately have no device available, but on emulator terminal connection works fine Mar 21 07:46:49 the novaterm works. it just 'feels' different in the shell... Mar 21 11:33:33 * madnificent needs focus Mar 21 13:30:32 hey guys. How can i disable a textField input once submit button is clicked? Mar 21 13:31:07 i want to input some details and freeze that in the screen once the user clicks submit button Mar 21 13:31:22 hegde: once second lemme find it, i did the exact same thing Mar 21 13:32:18 hegde: so in your function that handles the button click, add something like this: Mar 21 13:32:18 this.buttonModel.disabled=true; Mar 21 13:32:18 this.controller.modelChanged(this.buttonModel); Mar 21 13:32:42 This would disable button right? Mar 21 13:32:52 i would want to disbale the input text field Mar 21 13:32:59 ooh right sorry, wrong code, 1 sec Mar 21 13:33:26 although, the same method should work on textinputs Mar 21 13:36:29 @cwayne : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/583319/ Mar 21 13:36:40 if you have a look at the code. Mar 21 13:36:53 have put what i want in comments Mar 21 13:38:16 hedge try putting a scim on it? Mar 21 13:39:09 see stylematters->scrims Mar 21 13:39:18 that seems like something you'd want, or not? Mar 21 13:40:24 is that from ares? Mar 21 13:41:04 i am familiar with Qt where we give object.disbaled = true; which would disable any field. so in search of such a simple one Mar 21 13:41:14 @cwayne : yes from ares Mar 21 13:42:17 hegde: whats wrong iwth a scrim? Mar 21 13:42:25 can you tell us more what you want to do? Mar 21 13:44:10 @thomaschaaf : i m not sure what scrim is!. and what i was lokking at is in a card, i m accepting username and password of a machine. when submit is clicked, i want to disbale the fields in which username and password were typed in Mar 21 13:44:16 *looking Mar 21 13:44:36 since the same card stays till the machine is authenticated Mar 21 13:45:44 hegde: go and install stylematters.. Mar 21 13:45:49 this.$.textField2.disabled = true; Mar 21 13:45:55 you get to see what is possible from the native ui Mar 21 13:47:05 hegde: it's in the sdk.. Mar 21 13:48:17 @thomaschaaf : oh in SDk! then need to try that! Mar 21 13:48:19 thanks :) Mar 21 13:48:26 @cwayne : will try that! Mar 21 13:49:01 hegde: after you do that, you need to do something like this.controller.modelChanged(this.buttonModel); Mar 21 13:50:34 do you guys think ares really changes anything? I don't like it.. Mar 21 13:51:06 thomaschaaf: i dont like it either Mar 21 13:51:39 they should have focues on real app dev.. ares makes silly stupid apps easier to create which don't add any benefit Mar 21 13:53:52 @thomaschaaf : interesting. i am new to webOS! just knew ares straightway. Mar 21 13:53:58 interesting Mar 21 13:54:01 will like to know more Mar 21 13:54:11 time to catch my bus now :) Mar 21 13:54:13 hegde: what are you building? Mar 21 13:54:15 hm k Mar 21 13:54:33 will cath on IRC sometime later :) Mar 21 13:54:51 webchat.freenode.net when youare on the bus Mar 21 14:08:08 imo, ares provides a low level entry point for new devs to get into the platform, and take time learning things Mar 21 14:08:26 or ppl who are good w/ backends but to lazy to do custom ui's Mar 21 14:08:32 the more devs, the better for the platform Mar 21 14:08:33 lol Mar 21 14:09:28 just make normal development easier.. which I think ares is trying to solve Mar 21 14:09:33 enyo Mar 21 14:09:34 eny Mar 21 14:09:37 not ares Mar 21 14:41:32 Morning all Mar 21 14:42:20 mornings PatrickC_Pre2 Mar 21 14:42:27 Morning Mar 21 14:42:36 How is everyone today? Mar 21 14:42:46 Evening here Mar 21 14:42:57 bad day with Adobe Photoshop :X Mar 21 14:43:09 PatrickC_Pre2: SO FRIGGEN TIRED Mar 21 14:45:52 Shiawuen: what country? Mar 21 14:46:00 Cwayne: already? Lol Mar 21 14:46:03 Singapore Mar 21 14:46:11 Ah ok Mar 21 14:46:36 PatrickC_Pre2: never stopped being tired from last night Mar 21 14:46:43 cwayne: did you get your pre2 yet? Mar 21 14:46:44 Lol Mar 21 14:47:02 PatrickC_Pre2: nope. worried they sent it and it got stolen or something Mar 21 14:47:18 PatrickC_Pre2: how did they send yours? ups, fedex, or usps? Mar 21 14:48:08 UPS, and required a signature Mar 21 14:48:23 Do you know if they ever sent it? Mar 21 14:48:37 no idea Mar 21 14:48:59 I would email again Mar 21 14:49:16 keep spam their mail box Mar 21 14:49:24 Lol Mar 21 14:49:25 cwayne i made them send the track and trace number Mar 21 14:49:32 so i could track it Mar 21 14:49:38 You *made* them :p Mar 21 14:50:24 with threats of impending doooom Mar 21 14:50:26 i emailed about a week or so ago Mar 21 14:50:27 hah Mar 21 14:50:31 Lol Mar 21 14:50:37 How's it goin halfhalo Mar 21 14:50:38 well, they're giving me free shit so im trying to be nice Mar 21 14:50:38 lol Mar 21 14:50:43 Lol Mar 21 14:50:45 time to mail again ;) Mar 21 14:50:46 Same here Mar 21 14:50:54 halfhalo: close Mar 21 14:51:18 i need some coffee Mar 21 14:51:18 I had to mail 3 times, then finally got it exactly 30 days after first mail Mar 21 14:51:20 all of the coffee Mar 21 14:51:30 I need someone to do my school :p Mar 21 14:51:31 i got an email saying im GONNA get it Mar 21 14:51:32 just Mar 21 14:51:33 havent yet Mar 21 14:51:56 be patient…be patient Mar 21 14:52:12 yeah i know Mar 21 14:52:17 I didn't get an email saying I would even get it Mar 21 14:52:24 Or a call saying it would be here Mar 21 14:52:27 It just..... Mar 21 14:52:28 i already ordered and got my pre- to make a frankenpre Mar 21 14:52:31 Showed up Mar 21 14:52:49 yeah thats what im worried about Mar 21 14:52:53 my apt building has no buzzer Mar 21 14:53:00 will they mail to anywhere out of US? Mar 21 14:53:01 so they just leave shit there sometimes Mar 21 14:53:32 Shiawuen: I believe so Mar 21 14:53:33 it requires a sig, and they will not take a signed piece o paper in time Mar 21 14:53:41 really? Mar 21 14:53:49 I should try then Mar 21 14:54:07 You should try :) Mar 21 14:54:12 The worst that happens Mar 21 14:54:25 halfhalo: ah well thats good at least Mar 21 14:54:32 so they just havent sent it :( Mar 21 14:54:37 they love PatrickC_Pre2 more than me Mar 21 14:54:39 I will really really appreciate if they do Mar 21 14:54:39 They send a horrible virus to your computer and all your smartphones and it kills them all and they burn Mar 21 14:54:53 PatrickC_Pre2: good thing i run linux Mar 21 14:54:55 lol Mar 21 14:55:00 Lol Mar 21 14:55:13 yeah, I just went to the depot after the first time Mar 21 14:55:21 There *can* be viruses on linux ;) right Mar 21 14:55:38 s/time/delevery attempt Mar 21 14:56:10 PatrickC_Pre2, sure, but they cant do as much since privelage seperation is much better on linux Mar 21 14:56:26 Pandora doesn't me today :'( Mar 21 14:56:45 SiLeNt_NiNjA1: plus nobody bothers to write any for linux :) Mar 21 14:56:47 Silent_ninja1: ah Mar 21 14:57:09 * PatrickC_Pre2 needs to learn more 'bout this "Linux" monster Mar 21 14:57:27 PatrickC_Pre2: try out ubuntu Mar 21 14:57:46 and also, webos is based on linux lololol Mar 21 14:57:52 * halfhalo 's linux username is root Mar 21 14:57:57 I did.. I need to get a better setup first before I dive too deep into ubuntu Mar 21 14:58:18 halfhalo: hahaha dangerous Mar 21 14:58:26 bah Mar 21 14:58:39 PatrickC_Pre2: it should run better on shitty hardware than windows Mar 21 14:58:47 "Network Error: A network connection is not available" Mar 21 14:58:49 :'( Mar 21 14:58:59 Cwayne: lol Mar 21 14:59:07 Pandora doesn't like me today Mar 21 14:59:21 I an surf the web, and look youtube, but can't use Pandora Mar 21 15:00:47 * PatrickC_Pre2 needs to find Exhibition Mode files... Mar 21 15:00:55 For the actual Exhibition Mode Mar 21 15:01:38 probably in usr palm apps Mar 21 15:01:46 Just had to 3toggle my phone :'( Mar 21 15:02:00 Tried... Only ExhibitionPreferences is there Mar 21 15:02:34 do a grep -iR "Exhibition" /usr/palm :D Mar 21 15:02:49 will search for all files which mention exhibition Mar 21 15:02:55 Hmm Mar 21 15:03:03 In the cmd line? Mar 21 15:03:23 should work if grep is installed on the device which is a pretty standard unix command Mar 21 15:04:00 I don't know any unix commands :p Mar 21 15:04:30 PatrickC_Pre2: just dont ever let someone tell you to run 'sudo rm -rf /' Mar 21 15:04:37 ubuntu is the worst distro to learn imo Mar 21 15:04:47 since it differs so far from normal conventions in alot of areas Mar 21 15:05:06 Cwayne: what does that do? :D Mar 21 15:05:23 And silent_ninja1: what do you think I should use? Mar 21 15:05:24 PatrickC_Pre2: so just checked not in /usr/palm let me search on the entire device :D Mar 21 15:05:40 Puppy? Mar 21 15:05:41 depends, how in depth do you wanna learn it? Mar 21 15:05:54 As much as everyone else on here :p Mar 21 15:06:08 delete everything Mar 21 15:06:27 Thought so Mar 21 15:06:38 slackware to get an indepth understanding Mar 21 15:06:51 * PatrickC_Pre2 googles Mar 21 15:06:58 SiLeNt_NiNjA1: hahaa Mar 21 15:07:07 :) Mar 21 15:07:23 * thomaschaaf will post file with grep -ir "Exhibition" in a second Mar 21 15:07:40 Slackware for ARM Mar 21 15:07:50 We are ARM's, right :D Mar 21 15:08:09 cpu is x86 not arm Mar 21 15:08:23 Ah Mar 21 15:08:39 I thought the Pre was an ARMv7 and the Pixi was an ARMv6 Mar 21 15:08:49 oh.. might be :/ Mar 21 15:09:02 can't look cuz of grep -ir running.. Mar 21 15:09:12 yes, the pre's are arm cpu's Mar 21 15:09:32 So... Will Slackware for ARM run? Lol Mar 21 15:11:28 PatrickC_Pre2: in theory, it might Mar 21 15:11:42 :) Mar 21 15:11:46 I might try Mar 21 15:11:51 What is the Pre2? Mar 21 15:11:56 ARMv7? Mar 21 15:12:04 pretty much every mobile device ever is an ARM cpu Mar 21 15:12:17 this will so likely brick your device if you don't know much about unix systems Mar 21 15:12:18 I'm not sure specifically what the Pre2 is Mar 21 15:12:25 yes Mar 21 15:12:29 it's a big undertaking Mar 21 15:12:38 moreso than doctoring, as I understand it Mar 21 15:12:40 So, *I* shouldn't try it :p Mar 21 15:12:42 * halfhalo gets the popcorn Mar 21 15:12:45 no Mar 21 15:12:58 this is probably not going to be reversable Mar 21 15:13:00 if it were me, I wouldn't Mar 21 15:13:18 Ok Mar 21 15:13:21 so your chances from me are near to 0 per cent to get it back to being a pre ever Mar 21 15:13:24 * halfhalo goes to break into his desk at work Mar 21 15:13:46 and it is physically impossible to brick a pre using software Mar 21 15:13:59 oh really? Mar 21 15:14:13 Cool Mar 21 15:14:35 http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/085/493/original/Capture.PNG?1291165358 Mar 21 15:14:46 I'm still not gonna try :p Mar 21 15:15:00 Invalid file for me Mar 21 15:15:21 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/challenge-accepted Mar 21 15:15:37 omap cpu's have built in recovery methods like membooting a kernel over usb or reflashing everything on the device Mar 21 15:16:04 Awesome Mar 21 15:16:10 Sill not gonna try it :p Mar 21 15:16:21 Did anyone else get an invite to Palms thing in London? Mar 21 15:16:42 yer Mar 21 15:16:46 yes Mar 21 15:16:57 Anyone goin? Mar 21 15:17:03 way to few days.. Mar 21 15:17:15 sorry but who can make their calendar free in 9 days?! Mar 21 15:17:23 Way to far away :p Mar 21 15:17:37 eh london isnt bad Mar 21 15:17:51 still can't make plans within 9 days.. Mar 21 15:17:54 From TN it is :) Mar 21 15:17:55 that is not realistic.. Mar 21 15:18:09 * halfhalo dunnos where his passport is Mar 21 15:18:26 I wonder id Precentral is gonna do a write up on it Mar 21 15:18:32 S/id/if Mar 21 15:18:32 even apple gives you more time when they schedual a secret meeting to show off new hardware Mar 21 15:18:49 Or give away new HW :) Mar 21 15:19:00 Like at the NYC event Mar 21 15:19:09 i will not travel so far for no info and so short time Mar 21 15:19:09 they will give out tablets Mar 21 15:19:16 Not just the NYC event Mar 21 15:19:33 Where else did they give out HW? Mar 21 15:19:36 When devrel rolls, they roll with goodies Mar 21 15:19:40 Pre3 + Tab Mar 21 15:19:50 first dev days, scale, ummm... elsewhere Mar 21 15:19:51 no pre3.. Mar 21 15:20:04 * PatrickC_Pre2 is gonna sneak into a plane's cargo bay to go Mar 21 15:20:16 But the pre3 is needed.. Touch-to-share :p Mar 21 15:20:29 also works with vail.. Mar 21 15:20:34 so they will give away some of those Mar 21 15:20:43 S/vail/veer :) Mar 21 15:20:45 many vail and some tablets Mar 21 15:20:51 yea what ever Mar 21 15:20:55 stupid thing can die Mar 21 15:20:56 Lol Mar 21 15:21:02 Y? Its nice Mar 21 15:21:12 to small won't get any traction Mar 21 15:21:31 veer = feature phone Mar 21 15:21:32 ish Mar 21 15:21:35 most people i show my pre they ask me whether thats the small one Mar 21 15:21:37 I was seriously considering the veer Mar 21 15:21:51 and if I got the veer early.. Mar 21 15:21:52 I like the veer Mar 21 15:21:58 * halfhalo played with veer Mar 21 15:21:58 Its a *teen* phone Mar 21 15:21:59 have you touched it? Mar 21 15:22:12 No, I haven't played with it Mar 21 15:22:13 :'( Mar 21 15:22:13 but I want the better cam in the Pre3 Mar 21 15:22:15 * halfhalo played with pre3 as well Mar 21 15:22:17 halfhalo: what'd you think? Mar 21 15:22:22 comparatively? Mar 21 15:22:22 I am in highschool it's to small they all get hd 7 and iphones etc.. big nice screens Mar 21 15:22:32 the veer is a very, very nice phone Mar 21 15:22:35 * PatrickC_Pre2 attackes halfhalo for those memories Mar 21 15:22:56 Thomaschaaf: what grade? Mar 21 15:23:02 I'm in HS and I like it Mar 21 15:23:20 I would prefer the Pre3 of course, for its blistering speeds and massive screen :) Mar 21 15:23:26 I just had my last day of school today Mar 21 15:23:28 It is not some "teen" phone, it has oomph behind it, and it is a compelling device for people who like small phones or who use the phone more as a phone than a smartphone Mar 21 15:23:35 and next week tuesday starts my abitur Mar 21 15:23:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abitur Mar 21 15:24:01 Ahh ok Mar 21 15:24:03 Lol thx Mar 21 15:24:11 Was gonna look it up :p Mar 21 15:24:34 you could compare it to junior college Mar 21 15:25:12 looks like I'm pretty old here Mar 21 15:25:21 I'm in 9th grade :p Mar 21 15:25:25 lol Mar 21 15:25:29 I think I'm the youngest Mar 21 15:25:31 :D Mar 21 15:25:32 13th here Mar 21 15:25:33 halfhalo: would someone coming from a Pre- be happy w/ the Veer? Mar 21 15:25:34 and am 19 Mar 21 15:25:43 I'm 15 Mar 21 15:25:50 already graduated from Uni Mar 21 15:25:56 The veer is the size of the Pixi *screen* Mar 21 15:26:00 22 Mar 21 15:26:03 summatusmentis: it all comes down to how you use it. Mar 21 15:26:05 24 Mar 21 15:26:21 I hate developing with smaller screens in mind.. Mar 21 15:26:25 And no, because the Pre 3 is better. Couldn't live with the inferior smartphone. Mar 21 15:26:31 I haven't even tested my apps with the smaller emulator :/ Mar 21 15:26:36 I probably should though Mar 21 15:26:45 Pre3 == 1.4GHz pure awesomeness! Mar 21 15:26:52 mgschu: they are not meant for the same markets Mar 21 15:27:01 PatrickC_Pre2: what are you developing currently? Mar 21 15:27:09 A radio app Mar 21 15:27:18 PatrickC_Pre2: what makes it special? Mar 21 15:27:18 And some *very simple* other apps Mar 21 15:27:29 halfhalo: I know, but I have a Pre- Mar 21 15:27:41 It is for a single radio station to help them gain support, as they are user supported Mar 21 15:27:47 It is for my Church Mar 21 15:27:54 * thomaschaaf lines up all pres Mar 21 15:28:04 I just started on the SDK, I used to use Ares Mar 21 15:28:15 How many thomaschaaf? Mar 21 15:28:17 Lol Mar 21 15:28:27 pre-, pre+, pre 2 Mar 21 15:28:33 Same here :) Mar 21 15:28:39 Lucky boy Mar 21 15:28:53 PatrickC_Pre2: did you pay for them or get them for free? Mar 21 15:28:58 Only just started developing, got a Pre- and that's it Mar 21 15:28:58 I lost 1 battery, so only Pre- and Pre2 in use currently Mar 21 15:29:11 I couldn't afford 1.5 k in gear at that age *did something wrong* Mar 21 15:29:20 I have 4 batteries, 3 from old palms Mar 21 15:29:23 Thomaschaaf: 2 from dev relations (thank you!!!!) and one parents bought me Mar 21 15:29:27 Well Mar 21 15:29:32 They bought me a Pixi Mar 21 15:29:37 What do you have to do to qualify for a free device? Mar 21 15:29:43 And sprint upgraded me to a Pre for free Mar 21 15:29:47 mgschu: write them a letter Mar 21 15:29:51 The Pixi had been in so many times Mar 21 15:29:56 I sent a package of german chocolate Mar 21 15:29:59 Like 5 within 6 months :'( Mar 21 15:30:02 Lol Mar 21 15:30:04 got a pre 2 for that Mar 21 15:30:39 Good idea Mar 21 15:30:45 Bribe dev relations.... Mar 21 15:30:51 I don't have any apps in the catalog though, and my first is going to be homebrew only Mar 21 15:31:02 How come? Mar 21 15:31:18 So would feel guilty asking. I'll see what I can publish before the 3 comes out Mar 21 15:31:19 I had a couple in the app store Mar 21 15:31:34 It's an on-device version of ipk fetcher Mar 21 15:31:44 Requires code execution as root Mar 21 15:32:06 I have 6 in app store Mar 21 15:32:35 3 more in development Mar 21 15:32:49 PatrickC_Pre2: which ones? Mar 21 15:32:49 I have a few more ideas, but all are small reach Mar 21 15:32:59 Anyone in the UK? Mar 21 15:33:06 *hopes you are not the hippie submitting all the stupid bible apps* Mar 21 15:33:18 Also, just noticed uk is ): if you hold opt Mar 21 15:33:26 Fog Horn, Just a Flashlight Lite/Plus, Lighter Lite Beta/Pixi, Strobe! Lite Mar 21 15:33:33 And what's wrong with the Bible apps? Mar 21 15:33:52 Bible apps I can sort of live with Mar 21 15:34:12 Out of copyright books using a copied ui less so, appible Mar 21 15:34:17 hm don't believe in the stuff... I guess one worse is soundboards and books Mar 21 15:34:53 Well, I use the Bible apps a lot (I'm a Christian) Mar 21 15:35:04 And hay! I have a soundboard :p Mar 21 15:37:34 I was thinking of putting a guide to getting geo-restricted apps in the catalog, what do you think? Mar 21 15:38:05 won't make it Mar 21 15:38:13 will be filtered out Mar 21 15:38:19 And you get them how? Mar 21 15:38:21 except in the web distri Mar 21 15:39:12 On-device compilation and installation of blank apps with the same id as a real one, which is then updated. No way to get paid apps though Mar 21 15:40:11 wait you are saying all I have to do is create a blank app? have version be 0.0.1 and then let the updater do its job? Mar 21 15:40:14 Don't think that will make it Mar 21 15:40:33 that sounds like nerdy shit that's better suited for a wiki entry somewhere Mar 21 15:40:36 thomaschaaf: want to beta test? Mar 21 15:40:55 sure what's the id for pandora? Mar 21 15:41:27 Not sure, haven't integrated a catalog feed yet. Check in preware Mar 21 15:41:44 Pandora is geo-restricted? Mar 21 15:42:08 Yes, US only Mar 21 15:42:19 Pandora will download, don't know if it'll work Mar 21 15:42:25 Didn't know that... Mar 21 15:42:29 speaking of nerds Mar 21 15:42:47 pandora is relying on laws only available in the us Mar 21 15:42:47 http://gitorious.org/mgschu/dummy Mar 21 15:43:21 Like spotify in Europe, or is that because of licensing? Mar 21 15:43:26 do you nerds know if you can pull a lower-res version of a file out from the photo app? like, when I upload a photo, can I upload a lower-res version that's like like 5MB? Mar 21 15:43:35 I listened to one on WOSR last nite funkatron :) Mar 21 15:43:42 PatrickC_Pre2: I'm sorry 8D Mar 21 15:43:46 funkatron Mar 21 15:43:51 Lol Mar 21 15:43:53 like like? Mar 21 15:43:54 not like. Mar 21 15:43:55 They have a function that does something similar Mar 21 15:44:01 oh? Mar 21 15:44:08 but as far as I know its not public Mar 21 15:44:11 I only listened t about 15 min of it so far Mar 21 15:44:13 well WTF Mar 21 15:44:13 funkatron: you take the picture and crop it with canvas Mar 21 15:44:15 then save it Mar 21 15:44:23 yeah, I don't wanna crap Mar 21 15:44:26 crop either Mar 21 15:44:26 Similar to images for contacts and the photo app Mar 21 15:44:37 I want to reduce the file size Mar 21 15:44:44 Why crop it in canvas Mar 21 15:44:47 I don't think people would like it if I cropped it Mar 21 15:45:10 No but you should be able to scale Mar 21 15:45:18 in canvas? Mar 21 15:45:27 so Mar 21 15:45:30 that sounds like some hoop jumping bullshit. Mar 21 15:45:35 it is Mar 21 15:45:36 not your fault of course Mar 21 15:45:48 funkatron: so what do you want to do? Mar 21 15:46:04 I don't understand I thought you wanted to get a 2 mp from a 5 mp Mar 21 15:46:37 thomaschaaf: yes, but cropping means removing parts of the image Mar 21 15:46:44 sorry resizing Mar 21 15:46:45 thomaschaaf: I want to *scale* the image down. Mar 21 15:46:54 yep just use canvas Mar 21 15:47:13 somebody got an example I can steal? Mar 21 15:47:24 funkatron: quick search revealed: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2303690/resizing-an-image-in-an-html5-canvas Mar 21 15:48:08 magic Mar 21 15:48:38 I want to kill webOS with a bazooka for not providing this ootb tho Mar 21 15:48:52 this is what canvas is for.. Mar 21 15:48:54 come one Mar 21 15:49:08 thomas - its crap to have to pull up a canvas Mar 21 15:49:10 load an image Mar 21 15:49:13 just to send it Mar 21 15:49:17 it's what we call a hack Mar 21 15:49:19 crap i tell you Mar 21 15:49:32 its what we call a sad work around Mar 21 15:49:39 bite me! Mar 21 15:49:43 :P Mar 21 15:49:53 * CTLAdvance bites thomaschaaf Mar 21 15:49:59 shit just got real. Mar 21 15:50:11 * thomaschaaf scratches face Mar 21 15:50:31 * CTLAdvance smacks thomaschaaf with a giant trout Mar 21 15:50:34 * thomaschaaf and CTLAdvance end up in makeout session Mar 21 15:50:41 lol Mar 21 15:50:44 nice Mar 21 15:50:47 anyway Mar 21 15:50:59 yeah, canvas can do this, sure. Where's the docs on the Palm dev site for this? Mar 21 15:51:01 … Mar 21 15:51:03 oh right. Mar 21 15:52:02 funkatron: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1682&Itemid=70#CanvasTagSupport-images Mar 21 15:52:57 that's saying "this exists" Mar 21 15:53:11 and also didn't inspire me with confidence when half the functionality is missing Mar 21 15:53:20 mmm Mar 21 15:53:23 http://ajaxian.com/archives/canvas2image-save-out-your-canvas-data-to-images Mar 21 15:53:52 is there something in your pants or are you just happy to see me Mar 21 15:53:53 * madnificent hands out band-aids Mar 21 15:54:02 oy Mar 21 15:54:25 thomaschaaf: I realize there is documentation out there. what I'm saying is that Palm should have anticipated this and provided built-in functionality to scale image Mar 21 15:54:26 s Mar 21 15:54:29 Funlatron have you seen the 2.1 image api Mar 21 15:54:37 they may have opened up their function Mar 21 15:54:46 funkatron: I know maybe can you run the "convert" command? Mar 21 15:55:00 you could also implement a patch for implementing their function Mar 21 15:55:03 oh not installed Mar 21 15:55:06 or protest them to launch it Mar 21 15:55:06 and does using Canvas tie up the JS thread? because that's ridiculous Mar 21 15:55:12 yeah I'm just bitching Mar 21 15:55:42 CTLAdvance: I have not. since about .3% of people have 2.1 on their devices, it's of limited usefulness atm. but hey, cool Mar 21 15:56:02 funkatron you should build a black bar at the bottom of your screen that takes up 2/3 space and put a note : This black bar wouldnt be here if palm properly implemented their hidden functions in 2.1 and isnt killing the gesture area Mar 21 15:56:10 ah Mar 21 15:56:22 haha good idea Mar 21 15:57:22 Killing the gesture area? I thought that was only for the tablet? Mar 21 15:57:29 will I get lots of sexy time if I write the js to resize an image and save it again? Mar 21 15:57:37 yes! Mar 21 15:58:25 funkatron: where are you based? Mar 21 15:58:30 mgschu - Yes I think at this time it is, while many others are implementing it :) Mar 21 15:58:34 thomaschaaf: Indiana, USA Mar 21 15:59:14 Such a shame to lose one of the defining features of webOS Mar 21 15:59:19 I have to continue studying as I do have my finals soon (its 5 pm).. I will try and work on it as of 8 or 9 pm Mar 21 15:59:42 will you be online in ~3.5 hours? Mar 21 15:59:49 thomaschaaf: yes, most likely Mar 21 16:00:00 or post it as a gist and ping me on github Mar 21 16:00:03 okay.. good hope to see you then :) Mar 21 16:00:04 I'm funkatron there Mar 21 16:00:05 right on Mar 21 16:00:06 ! Mar 21 16:00:40 what do you want the picture to be at the end? what size? Mar 21 16:01:27 funkatron: Mar 21 16:01:50 well I think it would be good to make that a parameter Mar 21 16:01:55 like max width or max height Mar 21 16:02:23 if you can write it up as a method, that would be great, because people could just plug it into their apps Mar 21 16:02:29 sqlite triggers can give rise to other sqlite triggers being called, correct? Mar 21 16:03:07 madnificent: yep just include the bind(this) if you want to use this Mar 21 16:03:41 thomaschaaf: you're talking about something else, I guess... I'm talking about the triggers within sqlite Mar 21 16:04:12 woops somehow understood sql statements in general -> shoot me Mar 21 16:04:21 * madnificent shoots thomaschaaf Mar 21 16:04:36 but why?! why would I shoot you? ;_; Mar 21 16:05:46 found a bug 2.1: Mar 21 16:05:50 go to messaging app Mar 21 16:06:00 And... Mar 21 16:06:06 -> type "asd SYM +R Mar 21 16:06:08 ... Mar 21 16:06:24 asd? Mar 21 16:06:41 hmm wait can't repro it thisway Mar 21 16:06:48 let me examine further Mar 21 16:07:34 Into a message or the search feature? Mar 21 16:08:23 into a message type "asd... SYM + R" Mar 21 16:08:37 this will mak eit say 2 messages being sent Mar 21 16:09:30 it doesn't work with super short text :/ Mar 21 16:09:54 Post a full text to use that does it.. Mar 21 16:10:16 Screenshot? Mar 21 16:10:57 trying one.. Mar 21 16:12:02 found a new wallpaper :D, been rocking one of the daim gfx since i got my pre (years ago ;P) figured it was time for a change Mar 21 16:12:03 http://www.showiphonewallpapers.com/iPhonewallpapers/20101/iphonewallpapers/20091514575932877801.jpg Mar 21 16:12:28 Awesome! Mar 21 16:12:42 I have a lambo as mine Mar 21 16:12:43 and thats my car so it works ;p Mar 21 16:13:29 so type "1234567890" 8 times Mar 21 16:13:33 thats 80 chars right? Mar 21 16:13:47 Yep.. Mar 21 16:14:03 now type sym + R which will make the R with a circle Mar 21 16:14:10 this will result in a little 2 Mar 21 16:14:29 but it's only 81 chars... Mar 21 16:14:46 And Mar 21 16:14:49 Unicode text Mar 21 16:15:10 the R is 80 chars long?! Mar 21 16:15:28 Doesn't show that for me Mar 21 16:15:28 It uses more than one byte per char Mar 21 16:15:30 you can't explain that to any user Mar 21 16:15:40 you cant explain that Mar 21 16:16:04 and I think text messages are based on utf-16 actully Mar 21 16:16:20 you get 160 utf-16 blocks Mar 21 16:16:42 Is ® in utf-16? Mar 21 16:17:21 your mom is in utf-16 Mar 21 16:17:47 ® U+00AE 00000000 10101110 11000010 10101110 0xC2 0xAE Mar 21 16:18:03 But is you® mom? Mar 21 16:18:06 it's still a bug or not.. Mar 21 16:18:07 :) Mar 21 16:18:47 ThomasChaaf®™ Mar 21 16:18:49 :) Mar 21 16:19:27 ThomasChaaf®©™ Mar 21 16:19:32 Hehe Mar 21 16:21:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#Message_size oh look Mar 21 16:21:45 a text message actually only has 70 chars with utf-16 but 140 with 8-bit Mar 21 16:21:54 or 160 with 7-bit Mar 21 16:22:16 stupid palm and their correct implementation :/ Mar 21 16:24:06 Thomaschaaf: any luck on finding the exhibition stuff? Mar 21 16:24:51 chuqui, when are you gonna get a hp.com hostmask? Mar 21 16:24:51 Hay chuqui! Mar 21 16:24:57 How was the vacation? Mar 21 16:25:37 * chuqui used ignore Mar 21 16:25:56 howdy, all. Mar 21 16:26:02 I should have first say *chuqui appears Mar 21 16:26:02 vacation was awesome. So -- quiet. Mar 21 16:26:23 chuqui: oh you didn't take your phones charger? :D Mar 21 16:26:33 Lol Mar 21 16:26:45 heh Mar 21 16:27:48 chuqui: if I pull my app (de.komola.rainy) will that result in me having to reenter the information? Mar 21 16:27:56 the thing is I have a bigger bug in it Mar 21 16:28:25 and now I'd wait for it to go though so I don't have to enter everything again Mar 21 16:28:57 thomaschaaf: no. if you suspend it, it's still there, just not published. Mar 21 16:30:08 chuqui: hmm when will approval start? I'd really love a blog post about how apps are reviewed at plam.. is there a group of 5 people coming in on monday and just launching their emulators and testing its functionality or are you going through the code etc.. Mar 21 16:31:23 the app review team generally doesn't work weekends. but they also don't work standard business hours. Mar 21 16:31:24 chuqui: also a discussion we were having is there a better way to resize a picture on the palm than using the canvas element? Mar 21 16:31:58 chuqui: is there a german, spanish, english and french guy testing the apps? Mar 21 16:37:18 woa just saw a deal for a palm pre plus simlock free gsm for 105,50€ -> 130 USD Mar 21 16:37:36 should get my mom one but then again I don't know if it will still be supported in a week Mar 21 16:37:58 PatrickC_Pre2: I figured it out, with some help from Jason. :) Mar 21 16:38:11 Figured what out? The default?! Mar 21 16:38:18 yup Mar 21 16:38:36 Yay!!!!! Mar 21 16:38:48 what does that mean? Mar 21 16:38:49 Can I see? Or do I have to wait? :p lol Mar 21 16:39:13 that means Universe registers to handle http/https URLs and html files Mar 21 16:39:15 An app that dkirker was working on.. And I was trying to help with too :) Mar 21 16:39:23 PatrickC_Pre2: You have to wait until later today. Mar 21 16:39:29 Ok :( Mar 21 16:39:30 Lol Mar 21 16:41:43 sorry, folks, first day back meetings.. bakc later... Mar 21 16:41:54 :/ Mar 21 16:41:58 darn him Mar 21 16:42:00 chuqui_napping: Have fun! Mar 21 16:43:20 Cya chuqui! Mar 21 16:45:12 thomaschaaf: where'd you see that plus? Mar 21 16:46:05 just noticed is a pixi :/ stupid people and posting the wrong photos of products Mar 21 16:46:22 that phone is worth 0 so it's an okay price :D Mar 21 16:47:50 Maybe not then. Pre- go on ebay for less than £100 now Mar 21 16:48:11 that much?! Mar 21 16:48:16 why am I still here Mar 21 16:48:34 You expected cheaper? Mar 21 16:49:33 used ones can be a lot less depending on condition Mar 21 16:50:38 And the Pre2 is holding out around £350 Mar 21 16:53:05 * PatrickC_Pre2 is trying to configure Git with CygWin Mar 21 16:56:30 Now git doesn't like me :'( Mar 21 17:01:08 what's new Mar 21 17:01:52 its funny Mar 21 17:02:07 this video has almost 30million views, 95k dislikes, 12.5k likes Mar 21 17:02:38 She's got attention, she'll be happy Mar 21 17:02:49 not bad for $2000 Mar 21 17:02:56 And rich for a 13yrold, at #21 Mar 21 17:03:02 Nm joebpre Mar 21 17:04:56 PatrickC_Pre2: so here is what I found from the preferences Assistant Mar 21 17:05:15 it calls the services com.palm.display/control Mar 21 17:05:30 with state: "dock" Mar 21 17:06:27 Ok Mar 21 17:06:54 * PatrickC_Pre2 set up git... Now needs to figure out how to use it... Mar 21 17:07:29 Are you making your own project or just cloning others? Mar 21 17:07:41 Making one Mar 21 17:08:30 Set it up on git/hub/orious, clone, add as remote, and git push origin master Mar 21 17:09:07 * PatrickC_Pre2 scratches head Mar 21 17:09:20 I did what git said to to make it a git repo Mar 21 17:09:25 And made a master Mar 21 17:12:52 OH HAY Mar 21 17:13:56 PatrickC_Pre2: with git problems ask them in #git ;) Mar 21 17:14:24 Lol.. I'm trying to figure it out myself.. Not working out well Mar 21 17:14:37 I will later. Thx for the suggestion! Mar 21 17:15:50 ughh Mar 21 17:15:55 * cwayne really needs a webos phone Mar 21 17:17:01 * thomaschaaf concluded I can not find the source to dock mode.. Mar 21 17:17:15 I think it's binary Mar 21 17:17:20 :'( Mar 21 17:17:41 see you later people wnated to leave 2 hours ago Mar 21 17:17:42 fuck Mar 21 17:25:15 PatrickC_Pre2: master is just a branch on a git repo Mar 21 17:25:20 usually the "main" branch Mar 21 17:25:39 Ah ok Mar 21 17:25:40 when you create a repo, it makes a branch called "master" by default Mar 21 17:26:04 #git directed me to a 60 min video (way to long if you ask me) Mar 21 17:26:09 I'll watch it, and learn :) Mar 21 17:26:14 uhhh Mar 21 17:26:15 heh Mar 21 17:26:21 What? Lol Mar 21 17:26:21 that might be good Mar 21 17:26:34 What, learning? Mar 21 17:26:34 generally I learn better with written docs but ya know Mar 21 17:26:58 I learn better with a demonstration then just "do this" or "google this" :p Mar 21 17:27:04 is there a way to get to the app-store on an un-activated sprint pre- Mar 21 17:27:10 Yes Mar 21 17:27:24 Meta-doctor using --wifi-only scripts :) Mar 21 17:28:19 And the #webos-internals is where we can continue this conversation if you would like :) Mar 21 17:29:26 Funkatron: is git really the best thing to use? Mar 21 17:29:46 PatrickC_Pre2: i use svn Mar 21 17:29:49 PatrickC_Pre2: I don't know. is webOS really the best thing to use? Mar 21 17:30:00 Yes it is Mar 21 17:30:03 that's kind of a personal choice Mar 21 17:30:05 okay Mar 21 17:30:10 Lol Mar 21 17:30:11 why do you want to learn git? Mar 21 17:30:21 Open source stuff Mar 21 17:30:29 that's a decent reason Mar 21 17:30:34 a lot of FOSS is in Git Mar 21 17:30:41 FOSS? Lol Mar 21 17:30:48 FOSS? Mar 21 17:30:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open_source_software Mar 21 17:31:21 and if you don't know Git, being able to contribute to these projects will be more difficult. Mar 21 17:31:47 for example, I really, really, really prefer people send me pull reqs on GitHub than anything else Mar 21 17:31:59 it's much more effort for me to fool with a patch file, even Mar 21 17:32:41 that doesn't mean Git is The Best Evar Mar 21 17:32:42 Cwayne: svn turns up a lot... More specific please? :) Mar 21 17:32:47 it's just popular. Mar 21 17:33:09 PatrickC_Pre2: subversion Mar 21 17:33:19 although to be fair, i fucking hate svn Mar 21 17:33:31 i hate most of them actualky Mar 21 17:33:32 Thought that what it was.. Mar 21 17:33:36 Then y do you use it? Mar 21 17:33:37 lol bzr Mar 21 17:33:42 i use svn ya Mar 21 17:34:40 PatrickC_Pre2: I've got git installed on my phone. I can make changes over ssh and push them to gitorious. Really useful for making changes and for testing Mar 21 17:34:55 the amazing thing about git is that many people who use it, become advocates for lisp Mar 21 17:34:58 Git on your phone?? What phone?? Pre? Mar 21 17:35:04 mgschu: cool! Mar 21 17:35:13 Yep. Ipkg-opt Mar 21 17:35:19 Cool! Mar 21 17:35:22 your mind is constantly being blown, PatrickC_Pre2 Mar 21 17:35:24 Ipgk-opt install git Mar 21 17:35:32 Yes it is funkatron :p Mar 21 17:35:58 How many of you use ssh? Mar 21 17:36:05 ACTION  Mar 21 17:36:18 mgschu: I'm not sure how I could do most of my work without ssh Mar 21 17:36:28 if ssh were a lady i'd marry her Mar 21 17:36:45 * PatrickC_Pre2 needs to learn more about this "ssh" Mar 21 17:36:49 :) Mar 21 17:36:53 or years ago: rsh Mar 21 17:36:58 im not sure how i could anything Mar 21 17:37:00 Do you use your own keys or keys from ssh-keygen on the Pre? Mar 21 17:37:03 most people just used telnet back then :) Mar 21 17:37:22 mgschu: do you mean SSHing to the device? Mar 21 17:37:31 Yes Mar 21 17:37:32 normally I use novaterm to just get a CLI Mar 21 17:37:38 i think one reason i hate windows so much is the inability to easily remotely access the machine from commandline Mar 21 17:37:54 or I hit Enter when it prompts me for a password, because none is set on the root account Mar 21 17:38:15 but I would just use my own .ssh pub key and put it on the device if needed Mar 21 17:38:20 * PatrickC_Pre2 hacks into funkatron's root account Mar 21 17:38:38 that would be impressive Mar 21 17:38:39 keith: same. Cygwin should be installed by default. Better yet, bash Mar 21 17:38:58 Cygwin is nice Mar 21 17:39:00 mgschu: powershell's very capable Mar 21 17:39:08 I used it to build my meta-doc Mar 21 17:39:15 3 mets-docs :) Mar 21 17:39:24 destinal: I'll take a look at that Mar 21 17:39:46 I gave up on windows a while ago, moved to Ubuntu. Mar 21 17:41:43 Yeah I use cygwin alot Mar 21 17:41:48 very nice to have Mar 21 17:41:59 i switched to a mac Mar 21 17:42:02 destinal: can you check my source again? Think command injection issues should be sorted Mar 21 17:42:05 proper gnu tools ftw Mar 21 18:03:02 Is that Keith as in The Keith Newman? Mar 21 18:19:30 whos keith newman? Mar 21 18:44:12 HP should make a slate that can be hooked into modular accessories like this Mar 21 18:44:14 http://www.amazon.com/BoxWave-Keyboard-Buddy-iPhone-Black/dp/B004L0K3KW/ref=pd_sim_e_1 Mar 21 18:44:18 slate phone Mar 21 18:45:00 That's cool Mar 21 18:46:04 This one is kind of limited Mar 21 18:46:13 but if HP made a super thin webOS slate Mar 21 18:46:28 you could then be provided of some sort of modular keyboard Mar 21 18:46:37 maybe even as simple as replacing the back cover Mar 21 18:46:50 That would be awesome Mar 21 18:46:56 if they did it right the keyboard could also have an extra battery built in Mar 21 18:47:03 Assuming you *can* remove the back cover Mar 21 18:47:33 That would be a design that hp would have to decide on Mar 21 18:47:44 Yep Mar 21 18:57:02 ok i dont have an ipad Mar 21 18:57:05 but this is pretty clever Mar 21 18:57:06 http://www.zagg.com/accessories/zaggmate-ipad-case Mar 21 18:57:22 case and keyboard Mar 21 18:58:31 You have an iPad??? How dare u???? Mar 21 18:58:38 * PatrickC_Pre2 j/k Mar 21 18:58:39 ok i dont have an ipad Mar 21 18:58:45 Ah ok Mar 21 18:58:50 Lol Mar 21 18:59:08 That *is* cool looking Mar 21 19:05:40 I wonder how similar the touchpad will be in size to ipad, maybe we can super glue some rare earth magnets and use the smart cover Mar 21 19:06:21 like this: http://www.therussiansusedapencil.com/post/4000630884/smart-cover-for-ipad-1 Mar 21 19:06:27 there are images of them together Mar 21 19:09:39 hopefully the hpad will be as popular and get some decent accessories Mar 21 19:10:07 looks close enough in size, but may be hard to affix magnets properly given rounded corners Mar 21 19:10:10 err edges Mar 21 19:19:53 * PatrickC_Pre2 casually walks by Mar 21 19:36:49 funkatron: there? Mar 21 19:36:59 hello Mar 21 19:37:49 okay so let me start my magic :P Mar 21 19:37:54 woooo! Mar 21 19:38:03 cmon ups Mar 21 19:38:06 show up already Mar 21 19:38:07 Magic on what? Mar 21 19:38:10 Lol Mar 21 19:40:29 your mom Mar 21 19:40:53 ... Mar 21 19:41:00 :D Mar 21 19:41:15 S/:D/:'( Mar 21 19:41:17 Lol Mar 21 19:41:19 hi all Mar 21 19:41:24 Hay Mar 21 19:42:33 trying to resize picture with js Mar 21 19:42:37 I have a problem priming a database when my app launches for the first time Mar 21 19:43:17 I have a data structure which results in around 4900 rows but only the last set of data is being set in the database, really weird issue Mar 21 19:44:08 any best practice on populating a database on app launch ? Mar 21 19:44:32 what problem are you having? Mar 21 19:44:50 use a cookie to set firstuse (theres a snipplet on webos101) Mar 21 19:45:31 http://www.webos101.com/Code_Snippets#Show_a_scene_only_at_first_run_of_an_app Mar 21 19:46:29 Cyall Mar 21 19:47:03 oh im able to create the table & populate it - the issue is only the last row to be inserted is being populated Mar 21 19:50:53 hope the needed canvas functions are supported Mar 21 19:51:42 * phil_bw wanders by Mar 21 19:53:04 cmon ups, where are you Mar 21 19:55:14 this is how Im populating the db Mar 21 19:55:15 http://www.pastie.org/1697055 Mar 21 19:55:21 phil_bw: get off my lawn! Mar 21 19:55:40 haha Mar 21 19:56:06 * phil_bw is bored Mar 21 19:56:19 oops this one has better formatting - http://www.pastie.org/1697063 Mar 21 19:56:38 wife's at the chiropractor and I'm in the car with a sleeping toddler behind me... Mar 21 19:56:39 and in Ares running jslint warns me not to create functions in a loop Mar 21 19:56:44 * haeffb_pre shakes cfazy old man fist Mar 21 19:56:50 and instead asks me to use closure Mar 21 19:56:57 crazy Mar 21 19:57:04 nice.. Mar 21 19:57:10 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1682&Itemid=70 toDataUrl Mar 21 19:57:12 NO Mar 21 19:57:37 so uh, any OpenGL coders around? Mar 21 19:58:02 funkatron: :( now I feel stupid Mar 21 19:58:09 nm, wife's back Mar 21 19:58:19 * phil_bw wanders off haeffb's lawn Mar 21 19:59:37 thomaschaaf: why?? Mar 21 20:00:02 because toDataUrl which I need is not supported Mar 21 20:00:19 oh yeah Mar 21 20:00:21 that 8) Mar 21 20:00:23 right. Mar 21 20:01:20 oh well I solved it Mar 21 20:01:28 moved the for loop inside the transaction!! Mar 21 20:02:43 Ares is such a fantastic tool, I hope they update it for the enyo as well Mar 21 20:02:52 funkatron: hm now I have a function which does it but it doesn Mar 21 20:02:59 t work on the device Mar 21 20:03:02 yeesh Mar 21 20:03:06 The plan is to update it for Enyo, yeah Mar 21 20:03:41 And give you the option of either doing your app entirely in Ares+ or bringing in Enyo code you wrote by hand to Ares+ to do the UI layout and design aspects Mar 21 20:03:56 heh just crashed my Safari Mar 21 20:04:26 ...use firefox Mar 21 20:06:00 nooooooo Mar 21 20:06:08 if anything, if ANYTHING, just use Chrome Mar 21 20:06:20 death to gecko Mar 21 20:06:25 haha Mar 21 20:06:57 Adora: chuqui_napping: Why is there no support to resize images before upload? Or at least toDataURL in canvas? Mar 21 20:07:24 if I had to guess and this is at best a guess, it's because canvas support is still a work in progress ;p Mar 21 20:08:29 SineOt, why the hate for the fuzzy lizzard? Mar 21 20:08:39 they have so many people working at palm and they can't have one dedicated person doing canvas? Mar 21 20:09:21 thomaschaaf: how many people do you think they have working on webOS ? Mar 21 20:09:41 40 to 50 Mar 21 20:09:44 (noting all the open jobs they are advertising) Mar 21 20:09:51 the build of webkit that's in use was pulled from the webkit source tree in October, 2009. Anything that's been added since then is something that has needed to be patched in and hammered on to work since Mar 21 20:10:21 canvas in 2.1 is a lot better than canvas in 1.4.5, from what I can tell, but it's still got a ways to go because it's a lot of work to force in more modern developments into an ancient build of webkit Mar 21 20:10:46 why not upgrade webkit? Mar 21 20:11:09 RagingMind: for all the huff they throw about an "open web" and such, and the fact that for a long time (probably after Firefox 1.4 or so?) they've just kind of rode on their haunches without doing anything amazing Mar 21 20:11:13 doesn't that make the whole os better? Mar 21 20:11:22 while webkit has been pushing the boundaries left and right Mar 21 20:11:45 I'm enjoying the RC of FF4 Mar 21 20:11:45 most likely due to the number of Palm proprietary changes they made way back when being a pain to port up to a modern version Mar 21 20:12:01 will it happen? yeah, it will, but I don't think there's much of a time table on when that'll go on Mar 21 20:12:26 well their apps are based on a browser I would think that webkit is always up to date Mar 21 20:12:38 naaaaaah :] Mar 21 20:12:47 they're missing a lot of stuff that was introduced in webkit since then Mar 21 20:13:21 @font-face, box-shadow, a lot of the more advanced CSS transforms Mar 21 20:13:53 I have noticed! Mar 21 20:13:57 believe me Mar 21 20:14:23 webos is using V8 right? Mar 21 20:14:26 but that's all stuff that came into webkit in like, late 2009, 2010, after Palm's version had been forked from the main development stuff Mar 21 20:14:34 I think it is now under 2.1, yeah Mar 21 20:14:44 k Mar 21 20:14:57 why are our app not precompiled into v8 code then? Mar 21 20:15:01 why are our app not precompiled into v8 code then? Mar 21 20:15:11 wouldn't that be possible? Mar 21 20:15:13 it's like a rocket engine strapped to a beat to hell Pinto Mar 21 20:15:30 because yeah, it's V8, but it's still paired with an almost 2+ year old webKit build Mar 21 20:15:48 I feel that it is very scarry that anyone can just copy my code.. Mar 21 20:16:13 I would never develop something really secretive with my code just hanging out there Mar 21 20:16:15 I feel it is awesome that anyone can just copy my code 8F Mar 21 20:16:18 err 8D Mar 21 20:16:23 thomaschaaf: yeah, but just go and make it a pain in the ass to do so. Run it through JSmin, or the YUI compressor Mar 21 20:16:30 but yeah Mar 21 20:16:36 you can obfuscate it pretty good Mar 21 20:16:36 it's like yeah I could copy it still but man, fuck that noise 8I Mar 21 20:16:57 I've got better stuff to do than figure out what function abc does with variables y, x, z Mar 21 20:17:12 with everything slammed onto one massive line of text Mar 21 20:17:16 with no white space Mar 21 20:17:34 and that's just normal minification Mar 21 20:17:36 I guess I could yui compress Mar 21 20:17:43 Javascript Obfuscator works pretty well for that Mar 21 20:17:43 good point Mar 21 20:17:48 actually trying to obfuscate the code renders it crazy Mar 21 20:17:49 just makes it annoying Mar 21 20:17:57 yeah Mar 21 20:18:01 but that's all DRM is really Mar 21 20:18:10 just make it annoying enough that people don't want to take the time to get around it Mar 21 20:18:21 if you're worried about people reading your javascript code, webOS is not the platform for you, unless you put the code in a PDK hybrid plugin. Mar 21 20:18:35 but why doesn't palm-package yuicompress the js files? Mar 21 20:18:45 cause that would be obnoxious Mar 21 20:18:47 because palm is into being opebn Mar 21 20:18:50 because you might not -want- to yuicompress it Mar 21 20:18:51 would make everything faster, no? Mar 21 20:18:59 was never designed to have obfuscated or secure code Mar 21 20:19:09 it would also mean the end of patches Mar 21 20:19:15 yerp Mar 21 20:19:27 and the end of developers being able to learn from each other and palm Mar 21 20:19:37 I went on this rant with Palm back in august of 2009 about how our code is not secure Mar 21 20:19:40 * thomaschaaf ducks Mar 21 20:19:42 hence slowing down the pace of development for the whole platform Mar 21 20:20:02 well I would say this hampers the pace of uptake amongst developers Mar 21 20:20:05 I just really want canvas toDataURL Mar 21 20:20:09 depends. I'd like the option Mar 21 20:20:12 if you want security, use the PDK. simple. Mar 21 20:20:22 But, really, you can "copy" on any of the major mobile OSes right now Mar 21 20:20:26 or rather, an option to obfuscate would be good Mar 21 20:20:27 and yeah Mar 21 20:20:33 shit, people do that on iOS Mar 21 20:20:40 because most people don't care to go through and lift a bit of code from your app, they just want to get your app without paying Mar 21 20:20:42 with "compiled" code Mar 21 20:21:04 be right back Mar 21 20:24:45 I mean hell. If they're going to dig around in the code to see how I did a button, then go ahead. :p Mar 21 20:26:38 hah facebook ownaged Mar 21 20:26:52 foudn the previous owner of my car on facebook thanks to reciepts he left in the glovebox Mar 21 20:27:08 noice Mar 21 20:27:18 and... Mar 21 20:28:31 i sent him a message asking about the car :P Mar 21 20:33:15 back I am Mar 21 20:33:44 where is the webkit held on the device? Mar 21 20:33:52 are there sources for it? Mar 21 20:34:14 * thomaschaaf wants to upgrade his webkit :D Mar 21 20:36:01 opensource.palm.com - have fun :) Mar 21 20:36:24 let them know by email if there is not enough there to recompile it from scratch. Mar 21 20:36:34 they do respond to the email address on that page. Mar 21 20:40:14 don't get why the didn't put in their changelog like google did :/ Mar 21 20:40:32 hrm Mar 21 20:41:11 whats hood my linux gangst3rz Mar 21 20:42:31 oil: they made a lib just for you in webos *hihi* looking at code is fun Mar 21 20:42:52 ? Mar 21 20:42:59 I noticed this url: http://wiki.palm.com/display/HI/Text+Edit Mar 21 20:43:11 I don't recall a palm wiki? Mar 21 20:43:18 The link doesn't work Mar 21 20:44:25 bradmeister1: where is that url published? Mar 21 20:44:39 * oil wonders what this lib is just for him Mar 21 20:44:44 in the webkit-patch code Mar 21 20:44:58 liboil Mar 21 20:45:09 link 44618 Mar 21 20:45:38 huh Mar 21 20:45:46 *line Mar 21 20:46:25 bradmeister1: interesting. maybe some internal wiki that Palm has ... Mar 21 20:47:06 yeah, you are probably right Mar 21 20:47:08 documentation would be so awesome if we had a wiki people looked at when developing.. Mar 21 20:47:21 webos101.com Mar 21 20:48:04 re fom HH.js meetup Mar 21 20:49:06 aw far as I can tell webkit is still the same as 2 years ago Mar 21 20:50:43 latest change bein 1st october 2009 Mar 21 20:53:51 hmm makescript is missing :/ Mar 21 20:56:37 I should make an etch-a-sketch for webos http://i.imgur.com/khvKC.gif Mar 21 20:56:48 or actually for touchpad Mar 21 20:57:22 meh Mar 21 20:57:37 etch-a-sketch artists drain the power out after they make their masterpiece Mar 21 20:57:44 so, there would be no resetting xD Mar 21 20:57:56 s/power/powder/ Mar 21 20:58:16 a powered etch-a-sketch - that would be cool Mar 21 20:59:19 so lets fire up the emulator Mar 21 20:59:38 let me try and get some webkit action going Mar 21 21:00:31 anyone want to join me upgrade my webkit? Mar 21 21:01:13 I dont want to do it on my palm pre2 but on the emulator anyone know if I can instlal preware on there? Mar 21 21:01:28 I just want full shell -> ssh Mar 21 21:01:35 you can Mar 21 21:01:40 but you can already ssh into the emu Mar 21 21:01:47 and novaterm in Mar 21 21:01:57 novaterm makes be barf Mar 21 21:02:04 server localhost, port 5522 Mar 21 21:02:05 root Mar 21 21:02:10 its arleady setup Mar 21 21:02:11 thomaschaaf: what's wrong with novaterm? Mar 21 21:02:53 rwhitby: no tab -suggest Mar 21 21:03:09 thomaschaaf: that would be your shell on the device, not novaterm Mar 21 21:03:41 my novaterm makes funny things then (Windows) Mar 21 21:04:00 ah, that's windows that is making you barf then, not novaterm. Mar 21 21:04:16 well ssh seems great already :) Mar 21 21:04:52 right - that's purely what client you use to connect, and if you used a similar terminal emulation client on windows for novaterm instead of cmd.exe you'd get the same good results Mar 21 21:08:51 Hi everyone Mar 21 21:09:29 I found a mistake in the 2.1.0 PDK, how can I submit this ? Mar 21 21:09:46 tell us well tell you if its worth it Mar 21 21:10:39 In fact, in the \Palm\PDK\bin\Putty.vbs, the path is hardcoded Mar 21 21:10:43 TiPunK: post it in the forums Mar 21 21:11:18 funkatron: I didn't have found any place to post about PDK bugs Mar 21 21:11:32 I would post in the discussion of PDK about it Mar 21 21:11:35 confirm it with others Mar 21 21:11:36 anyone know where I can find the webkit lib on webos? Mar 21 21:14:17 thomaschaaf: My path for %PROGRAMFILES% is on E:, as so many few users, so I had a failure when trying to launch Putty via vbs Mar 21 21:14:47 ah k Mar 21 21:14:54 seems simple :) Mar 21 21:16:15 Try sharing your E: drive and then mapping that share with C: Mar 21 21:17:57 I juste have to replace C:\Program Files\ by %PROGRAMFILES% in the vbs, no ? Mar 21 21:18:41 I don't see why that wouldn't work. Mar 21 21:19:32 or since you are already changing it, just change C to E Mar 21 21:21:28 rwhitby: do they tell me where I can find the webkit file :/ Mar 21 21:21:39 or where they put it in webos :D Mar 21 21:21:51 thomaschaaf: do who tell you what? Mar 21 21:22:01 I've already done it, but I'd like to advice developpers to not include absolute pathways in their code Mar 21 21:22:19 rwhitby: opensource@palm.com I cant find the stupid file they probably renamed it somehow Mar 21 21:23:30 rwhitby: He's looking for the webkit lib on webos Mar 21 21:27:23 damn it.. dog ate my pizza :( Mar 21 21:27:27 but i got my pre2 Mar 21 21:27:31 yea.. looking thought the patch file is great.. all they did was remove stuff like changelog files Mar 21 21:30:24 I just noticed palm now support icq on webos 2.1 (looking at the source libs does help :D) Mar 21 21:31:04 meh Mar 21 21:31:10 i hate havign to doctor Mar 21 21:31:58 webos has very poor icq support :D its showing the icq numbers instead of their usernames Mar 21 21:32:29 wow Mar 21 21:32:32 people still icq Mar 21 21:32:38 i havn'et used icq since 95 Mar 21 21:32:50 icq is pretty common in europe Mar 21 21:32:58 joeb_: what do you use? Mar 21 21:33:01 I noticed that in 2.1 webOS shows me where in the country a number comes from Mar 21 21:33:04 nothing Mar 21 21:33:11 thomaschaaf i use irc :D Mar 21 21:33:15 joeb_: that is pretty 1975? Mar 21 21:33:17 my icq password got lost, I had a nice number tho Mar 21 21:33:35 man .. what is better tehn google maps on a pre .. pre google maps just straight up sucks ass Mar 21 21:34:14 pre2 has less antenna gold Mar 21 21:34:52 the Pixi just has a bunch of antenna black gold :p Mar 21 21:35:15 joeb_ bfg maps Mar 21 21:35:32 NuttyBunny: not really either Mar 21 21:35:38 there is no pretty app which is fast :( Mar 21 21:36:10 joeb_: seen the front page of precentral today? Mar 21 21:36:12 BFG maps looked passable, and then… Something happened. Mar 21 21:36:15 look /usr/lib/libWebKitLuna.so seems to be that I found it Mar 21 21:36:55 thomaschaaf: I was grepping for webkit, forgot to use -i :) Mar 21 21:37:13 hehe Mar 21 21:37:20 so how do I build this baby Mar 21 21:37:40 no make on device :/ Mar 21 21:37:58 of course, you need to cross compile it :) Mar 21 21:38:16 NuttyBunny: can you help :( Mar 21 21:38:45 thomaschaaf: have you cross-compiled software for the Pre before? Mar 21 21:38:59 thomaschaaf: I'm right at a similar point, trying to set up a dev environment to build some stuff :( rwhitby is the man :) Mar 21 21:39:00 what we want is: http://builds.nightly.webkit.org/files/trunk/src/WebKit-r80833.tar.bz2 -> Source->WebKit Mar 21 21:39:12 rwhitby: no Mar 21 21:39:37 thomaschaaf: perhaps start with main(){printf("Hello, World!");} first then Mar 21 21:40:39 where do I compile I am used to compiling on the machine with gcc on debian Mar 21 21:41:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK is what I use Mar 21 21:42:24 personally, if you've never cross-compiled for an embedded device before, you've got a long road ahead of you to replace webkit on a Pre. Mar 21 21:43:41 okay I guess that project just came to a halt Mar 21 21:44:28 I just hope they update webkit soon.. Mar 21 21:44:37 it'll happen eventually Mar 21 21:48:43 wanted to create an app around image manipulation after my finals in 2 weeks.. probably not gonna happen now Mar 21 21:49:22 why are apps still not reviewed? Mar 21 21:49:28 it's 2 pm Mar 21 21:49:35 3 Mar 21 21:49:51 thomaschaaf, why? because canvas support isn't too hot? Mar 21 21:50:05 you could look into what Node offers for image manipulation, I think there's a few modules out there Mar 21 21:50:11 I need toDataURL for it Mar 21 21:51:30 hey everyone Mar 21 21:51:50 Hello Mar 21 21:52:44 SineOt: they rely on imagemagick which is not installed on the pre Mar 21 21:55:08 SineOt: but I'd love to know if you know how to do it Mar 21 21:55:20 Nah, not really. But I'm reading up on things. Mar 21 21:56:04 Does webOS ship with libpng in a form that could create an image? Mar 21 21:56:10 https://github.com/pkrumins/node-png#readme if so, this might work Mar 21 21:58:10 'thomaschaaf - you could just make a c application to handle image edits Mar 21 21:58:15 you would have better control anyway Mar 21 21:58:29 would require knowledge of writing a c app though :p Mar 21 21:58:34 lol yeah Mar 21 21:59:36 Canvas support has been an on going joke Mar 21 21:59:38 like Mar 21 21:59:47 well see duke nukem forever before we get full canvas support Mar 21 22:00:02 funkatron: needed the functions.. I just am standing by Mar 21 22:00:12 sure Mar 21 22:00:23 because I told him he could create it with canvas and felt bad Mar 21 22:00:32 when I had to tell him he couldn't Mar 21 22:00:42 who funk master flex? Mar 21 22:00:56 I wouldn't worry about it 8D Mar 21 22:01:00 funkatron: they are telling you to simply write a c app :D Mar 21 22:01:19 he could hybridize it Mar 21 22:04:41 I don't know how to write c but I guess it's a great place to start writing them Mar 21 22:05:19 well you have to pick your flavor Mar 21 22:05:36 C, C++, Objective C , or C# Mar 21 22:06:00 Wait, you can build something in ObjectiveC to run on the Pre? Mar 21 22:06:11 sure Mar 21 22:06:19 that's pretty darn cool Mar 21 22:06:23 Palm don't restrict what language you use. Mar 21 22:06:30 * rwhitby bbl Mar 21 22:06:39 so long as you can compile it Mar 21 22:06:48 even C++++ Mar 21 22:07:21 is there a way to read the comments in the app catalog online? cyrket used to allow that but doesn't seem to anymore Mar 21 22:08:16 this title is awesome Mar 21 22:08:17 Verizon and HTC offer Thunderbolt extended battery, give your phone dumps like a truck Mar 21 22:08:23 nice Mar 21 22:08:32 thomaschaaf: oh yeah, that's right, there was a cateogyr added that I didn't add to my database, and then I got sidetracked... I'll try to remember to fix that today Mar 21 22:08:54 saurik: are you the creator of cyrket? Mar 21 22:09:43 ah seems to be Mar 21 22:10:23 saurik: can you check why I get no more comments and also brushy and hercalendar don't show up in the search? Mar 21 22:11:00 all the same issue Mar 21 22:11:19 peopel are giving me 4 stars for brushy and I don't understand why.. the comments all state it is good and they give 4 :/ Mar 21 22:11:44 5, for me, is reserved for "holy shit my face just melted I can feel the cosmos" levels of awesome. :p Mar 21 22:12:17 I'm having issues with Ares. When I try to change a property from more than one function deep, it tells me that the object is undefined. Lines 35 and 43 don't execute, nor 50 Mar 21 22:12:18 http://pastebin.com/LL8ERpiz Mar 21 22:12:26 Can anyone help me? Mar 21 22:12:32 saurik: where do you get the comments from? Mar 21 22:13:45 your first mistake is using ares Mar 21 22:13:57 thomaschaaf: same place the appcatalog does Mar 21 22:13:58 SineOt: if it does what it is supposed to do and you don't have any suggestions on how to make it better or what you don't like 5 stars is what it should get Mar 21 22:14:05 your second mistake is also using ares Mar 21 22:14:19 saurik: is that an official feed or not? Mar 21 22:15:18 thomaschaaf: yeah, but see… 3 stars is supposed to be the average. It does what it's supposed to, nothing majorly wrong with it, nothing majorly in need of fixes. Mar 21 22:16:15 CTLAdvance: Is Ares really that bad? Mar 21 22:16:19 for me i either vote if I like it or don't if not.. Mar 21 22:16:29 I would say it depends actually Mar 21 22:16:39 its great to get something basic off the ground Mar 21 22:16:43 Ares right now isn't terrible but it still has a lot in need of fixes Mar 21 22:16:43 thomaschaaf: I would presume the appcatalog gets "official" data, yes Mar 21 22:16:45 other than that Mar 21 22:16:46 may say why I don't like it but still give min. 3 stars becuase development is partly connected with love.. thats how it should be in my eyes Mar 21 22:17:20 saurik: but you didn't get the url from a website or something but tracked where the appstore goes and gets its info? Mar 21 22:17:37 thomaschaaf: correct Mar 21 22:17:45 blah Mar 21 22:18:34 funkatron had a nice presantation why users are assholes Mar 21 22:18:51 I did Mar 21 22:19:07 tossing out 5s on everything is just as bad as giving out 1s to everything too Mar 21 22:19:08 one of my apps got 0 starts both times, the other both times 5/5 in their short livetime of 30 days. Mar 21 22:19:12 it's luck. Mar 21 22:19:24 it completely devalues the five star rating Mar 21 22:19:26 and if the stupid minded consumers understand the sense of that app Mar 21 22:20:29 well you can either hate the game or the system in my eyes.. palm should rethink and make it more like the facebook model.. Mar 21 22:20:37 like or nothing Mar 21 22:20:44 but you can comment either way Mar 21 22:20:51 well you should really have like or dislike Mar 21 22:20:59 not sure where dislike went Mar 21 22:21:01 why dislike? Mar 21 22:21:12 well sometimes I see something I really just dislike Mar 21 22:21:16 and boom Mar 21 22:21:18 dislike Mar 21 22:21:28 no, then i would sink @ levels of 3 stars with my 5 stars (like) Mar 21 22:21:47 but no, I cant have dislike button because people kept disliking things, and probably someone got overly emotional about it and complained Mar 21 22:22:11 i would have to compete with your 3 star apps - no way for my classy developments ;) Mar 21 22:22:11 CTLAdvance: no the calcualtion should be likes per download Mar 21 22:22:21 the more downloads and less likes the worse it ranks Mar 21 22:22:34 the more likes per download the better Mar 21 22:22:36 well you could do that or you could also implement dislikes Mar 21 22:22:44 as people should be allowed to show displeasure Mar 21 22:22:52 CTLAdvance: users are assholes.. Mar 21 22:22:57 your an asshole Mar 21 22:23:00 it is what it is Mar 21 22:23:11 CTLAdvance: it is you're Mar 21 22:23:20 if you dont personally stimulate the user, thats your problem Mar 21 22:23:25 CTLAdvance: just to undermine :D Mar 21 22:23:30 CTLAdvance: Most negative reviews come from users that can't even download the app properly Mar 21 22:23:34 what was that... oh yeah ... your an asshole Mar 21 22:23:35 ;) Mar 21 22:23:40 CTLAdvance: but what if they don't get the clue, and find it useless at all for very special apps? Mar 21 22:23:49 mgschu - and those should be removed Mar 21 22:24:01 they would dislike it, cause in their world, where you read no app description it's useless Mar 21 22:24:21 "very special" apps? Mar 21 22:24:40 So your saying because users are dumb you only want to give them the option to like or remain nuetral Mar 21 22:24:40 ultra niche apps are really not something that you should be pinning your hopes on for having super high ratings on Mar 21 22:24:57 SineOt: like showing the status of the door of the chaos computer club hamburg with a haskell backend as not everyone has a key to the rooms Mar 21 22:25:01 its the same as like or dislike, 10 downloads, 5 likes your at 50% Mar 21 22:25:05 SineOt: was there a 'party' app or something like that which just used the vibrate function? Mar 21 22:25:16 definetly useful if you are one of them Mar 21 22:25:44 completely useless for 99.99% of the population, you shouldn't also be expecting to have a ton of 5 star reviews Mar 21 22:25:45 definetly useless if you aren't able to read the app description. Mar 21 22:25:52 I dont see to much of this on other platforms Mar 21 22:26:00 maybe webOS just has really dumb user base Mar 21 22:26:01 it is written in the description! Mar 21 22:26:09 :) Mar 21 22:26:19 joking of course Mar 21 22:27:00 Maybe we need to make agreements that say if you leave a negative review because you didnt review the description you owe the dev 100USD Mar 21 22:27:01 leiru: what channel was it put in? web? catalog? Mar 21 22:27:09 they have to check it before launch Mar 21 22:27:27 then we can get a court order for palm to identify the users Mar 21 22:27:36 SineOt: was my first app - first beta, and then catalog Mar 21 22:27:42 and or charge their accounts automatically Mar 21 22:27:59 if it is rated with less than 4 stars automatically uninstall and refuse operation Mar 21 22:28:03 leiru: well, really. why did you feel the need for that to go in catalog :I Mar 21 22:28:50 SineOt: so that any palm-using customers from other countries could use it, we have sometimes many visitors. Mar 21 22:28:59 well the other option is to do something similar to microsoft on the xbox and provide certain categories, report a bug, request help, log positive feedback Mar 21 22:29:14 something like that anyway Mar 21 22:29:34 and not with ranking games, more or less their reporting menus Mar 21 22:29:48 leiru: yeah, but that's something that the web feed is like, designed for Mar 21 22:30:16 ultra niche, doesn't need the visibility of the full catalog because only a minuscule fraction of the population will need it/find it useful Mar 21 22:30:28 SineOt: after that it seems i got the clue. Mar 21 22:31:30 SineOt: but the main question still remains: why you install an app which descriptions say: "shows the status of the door of the chaos computer club hamburg" Mar 21 22:31:42 and afterwards you give comments like "how superflues" Mar 21 22:31:50 it's not superflues Mar 21 22:32:21 it's useful if you are at work and want to visit the rooms after work and don't know if the rooms are open Mar 21 22:32:37 it is superfluous though to that user Mar 21 22:32:53 so the user isn't able to read? Mar 21 22:33:15 maybe palm should allow pictures like in books for childs in app description? Mar 21 22:33:30 that people aren't able to read 3 sentences will not be my problem. Mar 21 22:33:36 superfluous, at it's most basic definition, is that it's unneeded Mar 21 22:33:52 unless I visit Chaos Computer Club Hamburg, then yes, it's unneeded Mar 21 22:34:10 are they kind of dense for installing it? Yeah, but are they an asshole for saying that? No, because that's what it is :p Mar 21 22:34:45 "unless i use foursquare it's superfloues in the catlogue" Mar 21 22:35:09 "unless i use twitter, spaz and carbon are useless" Mar 21 22:35:14 superflouous... Mar 21 22:35:29 definetly missplaced. Mar 21 22:36:05 you're kind of going apples oranges here :I Mar 21 22:37:32 i mean: the first place, i search for an app is the catalogue. if i am from NYC resistor and driving to germany, visiting hackerspaces. Mar 21 22:37:37 where i will look? Mar 21 22:37:52 hi all Mar 21 22:37:58 at a private web-dirstribution which link i never got? or first in the off. catalogue? Mar 21 22:38:29 is anyone experiencing the issue where the web browser stops grokking opensearch? (i have a sprint pre meta-doctored that this is happening to. i *hope* it's not a meta-doctor issue.) Mar 21 22:38:36 that was the leading thought behind this. Mar 21 22:38:48 and is still my opinion :) Mar 21 22:40:47 looking at appcatalog and woundering why the Mojo.Log.info are not popping up in the logger Mar 21 22:41:20 leiru: you'd probably hit up google first :p Mar 21 22:41:35 and if you can't find a mention of a web feed app for something, then well Mar 21 22:42:34 SineOt: right, but i hope that you got my initial thought making it easily available for everyone. Mar 21 22:43:12 yes, but I hope you too got what I was saying with that when "everyone" is a tiny, TINY fraction of the user base, there are better ways to go about getting an app out there Mar 21 22:44:55 SineOt: sure, it is small. but these comments just show that the normal user a) isn't able to read b) can't even imagine how smth. could be useful to someone on the planet. Mar 21 22:46:57 maybe I'm weird, but to me that's due to a failing on both sides… presenting a tool that has an ultra niche application to a broad market, and users finding it and landing so far out of said nice market to not understand it Mar 21 22:48:11 that was my intend problem: that the user is to dumb to understand / imagine whatever.... Mar 21 22:48:42 they cannot read, they can not think, what do they are able to? Mar 21 22:48:51 consume pre-filtered media? Mar 21 22:49:42 leiru: I'm trying to say if you market an app stupidly, you'll get stupid responses back, regardless of the intelligence of any end users Mar 21 22:49:44 pre-filtered in the way, that i have to assume, that they cannot read or think into other persons Mar 21 22:51:42 SineOt: i think, but thats no problem of the catalogue at all, just mostly impressions from work, that 70% of the world is dumb and just "consuming". consuming in that way, that it would fail, if ya had to think Mar 21 22:53:17 thinking means any further concentration and not just watching tv. Mar 21 22:53:34 I could go on a long tirade about how forcing an end user to think is more than likely due to designing a poorly thought out product, but… Not really in the mood Mar 21 22:53:54 hmm weird for palm alls Mojo.Log.info don'tseem to display but Mojo.Log.error do Mar 21 22:54:06 SineOt: i think we both have good points :) Mar 21 22:54:12 * thomaschaaf regex replace :D Mar 21 22:54:31 thomaschaaf: depends on what the device logging level is set to, double check that + if you have the "Muffle system logging" patch installed, it'll eat everything below error Mar 21 22:54:32 SineOt: and i think we're both right. Mar 21 22:54:47 its set to info.. Mar 21 22:55:35 thomaschaaf: try setting loglevel to 99? Mar 21 22:55:36 leiru: yeah, it's two sides of the same coin Mar 21 22:56:00 palm-log --system-log-level 99 Mar 21 22:56:08 or in framework file? Mar 21 22:56:20 framework_config.json Mar 21 22:56:53 ah Mar 21 22:57:01 setting the logLevel does the trick Mar 21 22:57:03 thanks Mar 21 23:02:33 SineOt: but that i have to prethink all time for users that aren't able to read and aren't able to imagine, takes me into an (philosophic) position that i do not always like. Mar 21 23:06:46 all media through out history has required some level of prethinking, though-be it carving stuff on stones to tell people of a battle you waged or if you're writing some great dissertation on Shakespeare's plays, you have to prethink it :p Mar 21 23:07:52 ;) Mar 21 23:09:28 maybe in some years i am not uncormfortable with this, throwing the everything-for-everyone-thinking away. Mar 21 23:09:36 otherwise you just end up spewing train of thought and confusing even the most intelligent users Mar 21 23:10:23 i am still in the opinion that this 2 reviews wasn'tintelligent people. :P Mar 21 23:10:36 they woudl have been able to read or imagine about the use Mar 21 23:10:42 but, you are right Mar 21 23:10:48 over half the populations has below average intelligence Mar 21 23:11:09 that's kind of the definition of 'average' after all Mar 21 23:11:24 if you only want intelligent people to use your app, you're immediately excluding half of your possible user base Mar 21 23:13:34 rwhitby: hard, if it is an app just for avergae intelligent users/hackers, and all others reporting spam-comments. Mar 21 23:13:52 SineOt: i would agree rwhitby, most people, i would assume 70% are dumb Mar 21 23:14:32 SineOt: i would even go that far and say, that this is a fact. Mar 21 23:18:27 leiru: I would suggest such an app would be linked from the CCC web pages, and people would look there first, rather than in a general app catalog Mar 21 23:18:42 such is the intended function of the web feed. Mar 21 23:19:05 because the 50% of below-average intelligence people will not read the description and will give you bad reviews. Mar 21 23:19:21 rwhitby: right, but that time (my first app) i wasn't that far. Mar 21 23:20:21 just thought about the us-visitors or whatever-visitors and thought, "if they find it at first in the catologue, without browsing sites it would be fine for them" Mar 21 23:20:36 everyone who wouldn't need this, wouldn't install Mar 21 23:20:39 hard fail Mar 21 23:21:32 leiru: but how many visitors is that realistically Mar 21 23:22:33 SineOt: but the main thought was okay, wasn't it? :) Mar 21 23:22:43 not really :p Mar 21 23:22:48 there's a point of diminishing returns Mar 21 23:23:19 ipod cant boot, not enough juice :( Mar 21 23:23:43 maybe ill try a wall charger, i just wanna sync my scrobbles Mar 21 23:23:46 okay, but rwhitby pointed the right way how it should happen, and you pinted it too Mar 21 23:24:00 i was young and needed the comments ;) Mar 21 23:24:07 good night - good fight ;) Mar 21 23:24:09 nte. Mar 21 23:24:23 night leiru Mar 21 23:24:23 why dosen't webos have lots of news like android i0s ? Mar 21 23:24:28 is it becasue it is so stable ? Mar 21 23:25:17 I don't understand that Mar 21 23:25:56 funkatron was that for me ? Mar 21 23:26:03 I think so. Mar 21 23:26:40 funkatron i0s and android are always in the news .. doing something updates whatever .. i go to google i type in webos and click news i see something that was posted like 10 days ago .. nothing exciting Mar 21 23:27:03 perhaps it's because they have far more customers and much larger marketing budgets? Mar 21 23:27:11 true Mar 21 23:27:23 it's because news is full of bullshit fluffer stories :p Mar 21 23:27:32 * joeb_ sticks to twitter Mar 21 23:29:38 twitter is full of even more bullshit fluff stories… :p Mar 21 23:30:39 true this is how i weeded out teh garbage though lets say you follow webos-internals .. you see who they are following .. then you add thsoe people .. most are legit sources .. then you go to whoever they are following and follow them .. but yea .. most of the stuff is retweeted lots of times so it gets boring Mar 21 23:33:27 hrm brushed teeth Mar 21 23:34:11 joeb_: and that problem you do not have @ andoid, iOS -> twitter? Mar 21 23:34:27 hay everyone Mar 21 23:34:54 bam Mar 21 23:35:06 finally found out how to get the data for an app Mar 21 23:36:04 i have to say: brush your teeth kids before sleeping. Mar 21 23:36:23 leiru: brushy FTW Mar 21 23:36:32 weird Mar 21 23:36:37 one of them was extracted @ me few weeks ago. Mar 21 23:36:51 my pre2 connects to wIRC, Mar 21 23:36:52 not very funny Mar 21 23:37:01 but doesn't let me talk Mar 21 23:37:19 haha itunes fail? or magic growing hdd in my 5th gen ipod video? Mar 21 23:37:20 Over Capacity by 0.96GB Mar 21 23:38:06 awesome Mar 21 23:38:35 also it was dead a minute ago, wouldnt boot via usb charge Mar 21 23:38:52 plugged it into the wall, it booted and said fully charged Mar 21 23:39:00 its been dead for a week (i forgot where i put it) Mar 21 23:39:21 lol Mar 21 23:40:14 oh well its served me well.. it was free. i got it from freeipods.com way way way back in the day Mar 21 23:40:29 i setup my websites 404 as the referral link :P Mar 21 23:40:30 ahh good to have the pre2 working again :) Mar 21 23:40:36 i have to doctor mine Mar 21 23:40:41 bypass activation Mar 21 23:40:48 its nice Mar 21 23:40:54 u got it i assume :) Mar 21 23:41:02 yeah Mar 21 23:41:10 freeipods.com is not there anymore :'( Mar 21 23:41:16 i heard screen was bad on pre2 Mar 21 23:41:18 the doctor is easy to make Mar 21 23:41:20 dog ate half my pizza while i answered the door Mar 21 23:41:21 no Mar 21 23:41:29 not at all joeb; Mar 21 23:41:37 Pre2 screen is nicer, I think Mar 21 23:41:39 s/joeb;/joeb_ Mar 21 23:41:42 different white point Mar 21 23:41:43 much nicer Mar 21 23:41:50 and doesnt scratch Mar 21 23:41:52 PatrickC_Pre, this was probably back in 05 Mar 21 23:41:57 it was whenever the 5thgen came out Mar 21 23:42:07 bye Mar 21 23:42:07 so where do I write down this newly gathered information? Mar 21 23:42:22 The fifth generation iPod was introduced on October 12, 2005 Mar 21 23:42:55 5th gen iPod, Nano, Classic? Mar 21 23:43:03 30gb pod Mar 21 23:43:15 classic was 6th gen Mar 21 23:43:19 and you used it all up? Mar 21 23:43:39 i have way more than what fits Mar 21 23:43:45 wow Mar 21 23:43:52 i have a touchstone right Mar 21 23:44:01 i dunno do you? Mar 21 23:44:02 its not charging my pre .. do i have to enable something Mar 21 23:44:12 enable the plug :p Mar 21 23:44:13 I've got like 85GB+ just of music Mar 21 23:44:15 hehe Mar 21 23:44:21 pre2's back plate is slightly different than the pre touchstone back Mar 21 23:44:30 not for me Mar 21 23:44:32 but nothing functionally different Mar 21 23:44:33 interchangable Mar 21 23:44:34 who wants an app to see what apps they have submitted and how far they are with submission status + comments + ratings all in one place? Mar 21 23:44:38 no i mean Mar 21 23:44:45 pre1 touchstone back is glossy on the inside Mar 21 23:44:48 pre2 is matte Mar 21 23:44:48 +number of downloads Mar 21 23:44:59 thomaschaaf: me me me me me Mar 21 23:45:06 * PatrickC_Pre raises hand Mar 21 23:49:57 i probably have the wrong back case lol Mar 21 23:50:28 is it smooth, or matte? Mar 21 23:51:03 s/smooth/glossy Mar 21 23:51:14 matte = touchstone Mar 21 23:51:26 glosse = regular Mar 21 23:51:32 s/glosse/glossy/ Mar 21 23:52:36 smooth Mar 21 23:52:39 its not glossy Mar 21 23:53:11 does it have contacts on the inside? Mar 21 23:56:07 let me look Mar 21 23:56:10 i probably have wrong case Mar 21 23:57:05 and is the touchstone plugged into the wall or USB? Mar 22 00:02:17 let me send a pic Mar 22 00:03:03 ok Mar 22 00:04:04 http://www.flickr.com/photos/60817783@N06/5548633072/ Mar 22 00:04:05 http://www.flickr.com/photos/60817783@N06/5548051229/ Mar 22 00:04:12 should i turn off flash ? Mar 22 00:04:51 that's the touchstone back Mar 22 00:04:59 that *is* a ts back Mar 22 00:05:05 just restart the device and make sure your touchstone is plugged into the Palm provided wall adapter Mar 22 00:05:58 omg seriously guys? Mar 22 00:06:06 all you had to tell him was to look for the touchstone bandaid on the inside Mar 22 00:06:13 yea Mar 22 00:06:17 but it dosen't charge Mar 22 00:06:19 via wall Mar 22 00:06:20 or computer Mar 22 00:06:23 dawm__! I haven't been paying attention! XD Mar 22 00:06:29 does it magnetically align? Mar 22 00:06:40 once its aligned its harder to wiggle it Mar 22 00:06:44 touchstone has to be plugged into the Palm charger on the wall, anything else, it won't charge Mar 22 00:07:05 ive experienced some bad stones too Mar 22 00:07:12 palm was happy to replace Mar 22 00:07:16 occasionaly the charger on the device will be dumb and won't start charging via touchstone, hence the need to restart from time to time Mar 22 00:07:27 how about a extension courd SineOt ? Mar 22 00:07:29 SineOt: or the car charger Mar 22 00:07:49 I've had the cylindrical palm charger die on me before Mar 22 00:08:03 doesn't change anything, as long as one end is the touchstone, and the other is palm provided :p Mar 22 00:08:14 omg its charging Mar 22 00:08:56 yay Mar 22 00:08:56 why doeen't computer work SineOt?? Mar 22 00:08:58 :D Mar 22 00:09:05 not enough power Mar 22 00:09:10 aw Mar 22 00:09:15 Touchstone wants about 1.1A of juice, most computer ports will only give you about .5A Mar 22 00:09:35 since the Touchstone isn't much more than a USB plug it can't request more even if the computer can provide it Mar 22 00:10:18 I emailed about my Angry Birds Problem Mar 22 00:10:26 hopefully they will respond :p Mar 22 00:12:08 PatrickC_Pre: what problem? Mar 22 00:12:24 I bought Angry Birds on my Pixi Mar 22 00:12:29 upgraded to a Pre Mar 22 00:12:37 now no Angry Birds Mar 22 00:12:54 thats a palm problem not angry birds problem Mar 22 00:13:18 you mean.. a problem with Palm.. not Rovio? Mar 22 00:13:19 well Mar 22 00:13:27 I emailed pdc@palm.com :) Mar 22 00:13:54 why would you email pdc, when that's… really obviously not a pdc problem Mar 22 00:14:07 who would I email then? Mar 22 00:14:19 PatrickC_Pre: http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/pre2/unlocked/solutions/article/43473_en.html Mar 22 00:14:36 pdc is not correct at all to be honest Mar 22 00:14:39 probably the general palm support email Mar 22 00:14:48 which I'm sure I could find for you in about 2 minutes of looking Mar 22 00:14:52 like calling the janitor if your grade is not correct on your exam.. Mar 22 00:15:08 I'll try the live chat.. Mar 22 00:15:58 okay 1:12... Mar 22 00:16:02 I guess nighty night Mar 22 00:16:12 nite Mar 22 00:16:18 PDC is bogged down as it is with just dev requests... Mar 22 00:16:27 why in the world would you email them because you can't play Angry Birds? Mar 22 00:16:43 figured.. catch-all? Mar 22 00:16:48 hehe Mar 22 00:16:48 :D Mar 22 00:16:53 lol Mar 22 00:16:56 I want to punch you so hard PatrickC_Pre Mar 22 00:17:07 so im asusuming my touchstone is working Mar 22 00:17:08 SineOt: me too but he'll learn Mar 22 00:17:21 after a couple of secs my exhibiion started playing Mar 22 00:17:27 howdy everyone Mar 22 00:17:33 we can talk about exhibition! Mar 22 00:17:34 thomaschaaf: if we live long enough we usually learn something or another Mar 22 00:17:34 yay! Mar 22 00:17:37 thomaschaaf, yeah, but you give up after a few times expecting 'learning' Mar 22 00:17:50 * PatrickC_Pre :'( Mar 22 00:18:11 Tibfib: I so want to help get exhibition in Koto Player :D And!! And!! Car mode! Mar 22 00:18:21 dkirker: awesome! Mar 22 00:18:22 I'm gonna try a diff way to contact them Mar 22 00:18:35 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/apple-sues-amazon-com-over-use-of-app-store-trademark.html?cmpid=yhoo interessting Mar 22 00:18:37 dkirker: wanna talk design for the exhibition mode? Mar 22 00:18:46 Tibfib: Sure. Mar 22 00:19:49 thomaschaaf: god, how can anyone think that "app store" is a legitimate trademark Mar 22 00:20:19 all you need for a trademark is that it's unique at the time of application and that you defend it :p Mar 22 00:20:28 "iphone app store" or "iOS app store" I can see being defensible, but app store being trademarked is like grocery store being trademarked Mar 22 00:20:50 grocery store is trademarkable though Mar 22 00:21:08 it's just that by the time anyone would have tried you wouldn't have been able to because it was part of the common vernacular Mar 22 00:21:19 * Loudergood tries to trademark bakery Mar 22 00:21:37 common vernacular already! Mar 22 00:23:03 * PatrickC_Pre2 trademarks SineOtts Mar 22 00:26:19 * SineOt is fine with that, since he never uses SineOtts anyways? Mar 22 00:29:53 lol Mar 22 00:30:48 * halfhalo trademarks EVERYTHIN Mar 22 00:30:52 +G Mar 22 00:30:57 Heh, a bit of amusement from Google Latitude... it auto-detected my workplace as an entrance to a train tunnel. Mar 22 00:31:39 lol Mar 22 00:31:59 I can understand why that happened. Mar 22 00:32:21 I'm train crew. That is the point at which I lose GPS on that particular line. Mar 22 00:33:24 It would actually be pretty reliable if we could ever get that southern hemisphere bug on the Pre fixed. Mar 22 00:45:53 ok i need to label these.. i have a feeling im gonna goto work one morning with the dev pre2 instead of the normal one Mar 22 00:46:00 herb derb Mar 22 00:54:07 anyone ssh into there pre Mar 22 00:54:13 not from emulator but from windows Mar 22 00:54:22 dosen't windows need teh shared pub key like linux ? Mar 22 00:56:16 These phones coming out now have some really impressive specs. Mar 22 00:57:17 I can't help but feel that the pre 3 will flop. The market is getting crowded Mar 22 00:57:24 disagree. Mar 22 00:57:31 pre 2 hardware is good enough Mar 22 00:57:35 pre3 will be awesome Mar 22 00:57:54 I wonder well it did on verizon Mar 22 00:57:58 How Mar 22 00:58:13 not well Mar 22 00:58:14 People are really, really too worried about specs Mar 22 00:58:24 I absolutely love my pre2 Mar 22 00:58:28 if you compare the iPhone 4 to these phones it suuuuuuucks Mar 22 00:58:37 and yet… Mar 22 00:59:11 Iphone 4 has other things going for it. An abundance of impressive applications Mar 22 00:59:25 but no way to discover them Mar 22 00:59:31 at least it seems to me that way Mar 22 00:59:42 it's a problem in all catalogs Mar 22 00:59:50 The search works okay in weeding out crap, and the featured stuff for each category is nice Mar 22 01:00:00 but the iPhone has such saturation that word of mouth really works best Mar 22 01:00:03 yeah, but you can only get like 50 or so? Mar 22 01:00:41 yeah but the turn over rate is pretty decent Mar 22 01:00:43 Also an impressive music player. Mar 22 01:01:11 on iPhone? Mar 22 01:01:19 Yep Mar 22 01:01:22 I disagree with that 100% Mar 22 01:01:27 awful. Mar 22 01:01:36 Don't see how anyone could disagree Mar 22 01:01:42 good ecosystem, bad on device Mar 22 01:01:48 you can't re arrange your current songs Mar 22 01:01:55 it plays music Mar 22 01:01:56 can't add songs to your current songs Mar 22 01:01:58 Best music player I have used on any phone Mar 22 01:01:59 so does the webOS one Mar 22 01:02:04 I'd call the walled garden a questionable ecosystem. Mar 22 01:02:30 Hendikins: shmeh, better than webOS' nonexistant media managing ecosystem Mar 22 01:02:41 Gapless playback, connects to the majority car stereos, continues where you left off etc Mar 22 01:02:42 Two reasons why I'll never buy an iPhone: I hate iTunes, and I don't agree with the business practices of Apple in that regard. Mar 22 01:03:26 iTunes is awesome for the simple fact that you don't have to manage any aspect of it Mar 22 01:03:30 it just does it all Mar 22 01:03:30 I use an ipod but don't use itunes. Car stereo connects to ipods Mar 22 01:03:39 cwalker123: gapless playback isn't that impressive. Mar 22 01:03:55 lots of music players continue from where you left off Mar 22 01:03:57 it's awesome to have though, a tiny skip between songs gets old Mar 22 01:04:04 agree htere Mar 22 01:04:06 there* Mar 22 01:04:10 can't wait to add it Mar 22 01:04:11 :) Mar 22 01:04:22 it's not a killer feature but it's one of those sweet icing on the cake things Mar 22 01:04:23 There are many alternatives to itunes Mar 22 01:04:35 Webos doesn't Mar 22 01:05:01 The music player in webos does not continue anything Mar 22 01:05:25 The main selling point of the iPhone is that it is shiny. Being able to move large numbers of units on that account draws software developers chasing money to it. Mar 22 01:06:00 the main selling point of the iPhone is that it "just works" Mar 22 01:06:35 SineOt: I'd question that. A lot of people don't even "work" the thing in the first place. Mar 22 01:06:47 every person I know with an Android set, when it screws up, goes "man 's iPhone doesn't do that" Mar 22 01:07:07 depends on your definition of work Mar 22 01:15:29 has anything been changed since when logging into your 1.4.5os palm profile with a 2.1webos ? do we still risk(?)lose our paid apps/contacts etc? thanks in advance. Mar 22 01:20:12 * PatrickC_Pre2 is on the phone with Palm support Mar 22 01:21:19 ruhroh. PatricC_Pre2 or are you helping Them? ;) hehe Mar 22 01:21:40 app issue Mar 22 01:22:08 after talking in live chat for >30 min im now on the phone with them Mar 22 01:22:21 i was transfered to a sup on the online hat Mar 22 01:22:28 s/hat/chat Mar 22 01:22:37 now im waiting for a sup on the phone Mar 22 01:22:46 online hat: ___ Mar 22 01:22:55 yikes. :/ grab a cold one while you wait... ;) Mar 22 01:22:55 lol Mar 22 01:22:55 _|___|_ Mar 22 01:23:06 * PatrickC_Pre2 is 15 :p Mar 22 01:23:11 dang it, you both broke my two-line ascii-art combo Mar 22 01:23:16 lol Mar 22 01:23:19 that never stopped anyone Mar 22 01:23:20 try again :) Mar 22 01:23:31 ___ Mar 22 01:23:31 sineot: did it stop u? :) Mar 22 01:23:34 hey Mar 22 01:23:39 hay :D Mar 22 01:23:45 no Mar 22 01:23:49 lol Mar 22 01:23:50 well Mar 22 01:23:54 oh screw it Mar 22 01:23:55 :) Mar 22 01:23:58 hell my antho professor started drinking when she was like 8 :p Mar 22 01:24:06 im also a Christian Mar 22 01:24:09 haha.. cold one could be a beverage of any choice then :) Mar 22 01:24:19 yep lol Mar 22 01:25:04 what are you talking about, christians love to drink Mar 22 01:25:16 Grape Juice :p Mar 22 01:25:22 vine. ;) Mar 22 01:25:22 lol Mar 22 01:25:27 heh Mar 22 01:25:33 *not* fermented ;) Mar 22 01:25:34 you'd be liable to die drinking straight grape juice way back then :p Mar 22 01:25:55 still on hold Mar 22 01:26:05 been thru the song like 3 times :p Mar 22 01:26:19 its a sing a long. Mar 22 01:26:50 it got boring after the first 2 times lol Mar 22 01:27:19 back on the phone Mar 22 01:28:30 wine is awesome just for the fact that it keeps for a long time and won't fester up some nasty little party animals in it Mar 22 01:28:58 heh Mar 22 01:29:01 where you die of cholera because sanitary water as a concept won't exist for another few hundred years Mar 22 01:29:25 grape juice would be even worse! all that sugar just waiting for something to come along and feast Mar 22 01:30:36 back on hold Mar 22 01:30:45 waiting for the supervisors supervisor :p Mar 22 01:31:19 waiting on hold for coperate :) Mar 22 01:31:36 maybe ill get a refund... Mar 22 01:32:21 hmmm, does "reorderable" in a list get updated on modelChanged()? Mar 22 01:32:30 hay tibfib Mar 22 01:32:35 howdy! Mar 22 01:32:44 is palm still engaging sending out free pre2s to des? or is that ended already? I email requested one from the first 'blog corner update' I received about a month ago.. just wondering. :) Mar 22 01:33:00 solix: see the fourm post Mar 22 01:35:02 thanks Patrick_CPre2 will do :) Mar 22 01:35:57 corperate is seeing what they can do :) Mar 22 01:36:10 tibfib: how is Koto selling? Mar 22 01:36:21 as good as can be expected I guess Mar 22 01:36:25 not a huge market Mar 22 01:36:38 true Mar 22 01:36:43 but it is growing Mar 22 01:36:46 * PatrickC_Pre2 slowly Mar 22 01:37:51 not really. Mar 22 01:37:58 at least not right now Mar 22 01:38:14 It'll be growing soon, what with the Pre3 and Veer on the horizons Mar 22 01:38:28 yeah Mar 22 01:40:16 well... corperate told me to contact rovio Mar 22 01:40:27 and that Palm makes no money on app sales Mar 22 01:40:30 * PatrickC_Pre2 laughs Mar 22 01:41:02 wouldn't surprise me Mar 22 01:41:15 30% ring a bell? Mar 22 01:41:20 dont they take 30%? Mar 22 01:41:57 yes, but do you think all of the app catalog servers, bandwidth, and etc are free? Mar 22 01:42:15 there's been talk that even Apple doesn't turn a profit on their 30% cut Mar 22 01:42:53 true Mar 22 01:43:03 didnt think of the servers... Mar 22 01:43:08 * PatrickC_Pre2 doesnt think alot Mar 22 01:44:19 * SineOt pats PatrickC_Pre2. "I know you don't" :p Mar 22 01:45:19 Anyone know of any documents explaining how to use Ares for a total newbie to programming? Mar 22 01:45:31 there aren't really any, randomperson :/ Mar 22 01:45:51 or for the normal sdk Mar 22 01:46:25 I cant make any since of how to use mojo Mar 22 01:49:12 for example in this line of code what does the "$" do? "button1_btn_Tap: function(inSender, event) { this.$.launch_browser.launch(); }" Mar 22 01:50:24 in ares Mar 22 01:51:08 $ is a carry over from Prototype, it lets you select stuff Mar 22 01:52:33 I don't know what "prototype is" :/ Mar 22 01:53:52 prototypejs.org Mar 22 01:54:28 Thanks Mar 22 01:54:34 randomperson, have you ever done Javascript work before? Mar 22 01:55:10 i'm trying to learn Mar 22 01:55:47 dangit. Mar 22 01:55:55 While it's not related to Mojo, or Prototype… This is a good starting point from what I've read with it. http://eloquentjavascript.net/ Mar 22 01:56:02 for the record, "reorderable" is not updated in modelChanged Mar 22 01:56:19 my problem is that i cant seem to fully understand it Mar 22 01:56:49 Thanks i will lok at that Mar 22 01:57:02 that starts off at like, square 0 Mar 22 01:57:10 thats what i need Mar 22 01:57:41 everything seems to be geared towards people that know this already Mar 22 01:57:58 yup Mar 22 01:58:01 I had that problem Mar 22 01:58:30 and i could never find the resources to learn, this looks promising thanks. Mar 22 02:05:58 i'd stick with the o'reilly books for learning javascript Mar 22 02:06:13 the ones by flanagan (javascript: the definitive guide) and crockford (javascript: the good parts) Mar 22 02:06:21 i'd probably start with the second one Mar 22 02:07:06 http://eloquentjavascript.net/appendix1.html is a red flag becuase it discusses the with statement without mentioning how evil it is Mar 22 02:08:33 flanagan's book is good but it's not emphatic enough in my opinion about shit you shouldn't do Mar 22 02:08:36 "I've never actually used this in a real program" (and that includes anywhere in the book, you never see it unless you dig up the appendix to read that) Mar 22 02:09:41 you don't say "oh BTW here's this obscure statement called with" Mar 22 02:09:56 you say "oh BTW here's this obscure statement called with and here's why you don't ever use it" Mar 22 02:10:41 trust me Mar 22 02:10:44 (and crockford) Mar 22 02:10:45 ;) Mar 22 02:11:47 ehh! Mar 22 02:12:15 it's free and starts entirely at square 0, not square 1 or 4 or 5 Mar 22 02:16:08 yay. playlist sorting added to koto Mar 22 02:16:15 http://i56.tinypic.com/5d5nyc.png :) Mar 22 02:16:33 wirc aint winnin no speed competitions xD Mar 22 02:16:43 lol Mar 22 02:23:35 Heh, just had an iPhone 4 owner going on about how great it is that he can set up a mobile hotspot, rah rah rah. I just pulled my Pre out, pointed at FreeTether, and said this was the /hard/ way to set it up on this phone (since it isn't a carrier supplied mobile hotspot app) Mar 22 02:24:03 I've been using my grandma's iPad... and I can't wait for that form factor with a real OS Mar 22 02:30:05 your grandmother sounds pretty hip Mar 22 02:36:53 after a 1hr phone convorsation with Palm (climbing all the way up to corperate) they told me to contact Rovio :/ Mar 22 02:38:11 SineOt: I bet apple makes a lot of money. Palm, dunno, that depends Mar 22 02:38:11 now do you see why it was dumb to email PDC about it Mar 22 02:38:30 * PatrickC_Pre2 :'( Mar 22 02:38:35 destinal: it's a sliding scale though. Apple makes more, because they sell more, meaning the need more infrastructure to support it Mar 22 02:38:58 SineOt: the economy of scale is nonlinear though Mar 22 02:39:01 pdc will probably disreguard the email tho Mar 22 02:39:04 quote from eloquentjavascript.net: Mar 22 02:39:04 A good programming language helps the programmer by providing a more abstract way to express himself. It hides uninteresting details, provides convenient building blocks (such as the while construct), and, most of the time, allows the programmer to add building blocks himself (such as the sum and range operations). Mar 22 02:39:28 ah crap i read 'while' as 'with' Mar 22 02:39:30 nm Mar 22 02:40:20 maybe Rovio can do somethin for me... :) Mar 22 02:40:27 SineOt: a lot of the investments you put in to do a catalog are fixed so not a function of how much you sell and some cost less per unit when units are higher Mar 22 02:40:36 PatrickC_Pre2: why whats happenin Mar 22 02:40:40 err less per the same unit when you do more of them Mar 22 02:40:54 i bought Angry Birds for Pixi, and upgraded to a Pre Mar 22 02:41:00 angry birds no download Mar 22 02:41:50 PatrickC_Pre2: have you considered using ipkg fetcher? since you bought the game it might just work to use its technique (it creates a fake "old" package, and you upgrade) Mar 22 02:42:10 destinal: true, I suppose Mar 22 02:42:32 i never bought the "pre" version Mar 22 02:42:40 they r 2 different versions of the app Mar 22 02:42:43 or just pay $1.99 again. I mean, really, you've already spent more of your time than that. Mar 22 02:43:19 i know Mar 22 02:43:24 PatrickC_Pre2: that's really silly. why would they do two packages when you can just build for armv6 and it works fine on both Mar 22 02:43:27 its just the principal of the thing Mar 22 02:43:42 i *shouldnt* have to pay again Mar 22 02:43:50 screen size restraints, and it was probably the first app to really do both Mar 22 02:43:57 destinal: ask them.. they should have Mar 22 02:44:07 SineOt: you can detect screen size, lots of pdk apps do both Mar 22 02:44:09 you "shouldn't" ? Mar 22 02:44:27 if i was on Android i wouldnt Mar 22 02:44:35 and i already paied once Mar 22 02:44:40 y should i pay again? Mar 22 02:45:24 haeffb: he absolutely shouldn't Mar 22 02:45:36 why? Mar 22 02:46:38 haeffb: so if you bought a game for amd64 and had to buy it again for a new intel i7 board, would you feel ok with that? Mar 22 02:47:00 if the game said "amd64 version only" Mar 22 02:47:05 and this didn't Mar 22 02:47:07 did it? Mar 22 02:47:19 it says "Angry Birds for Pixi" Mar 22 02:47:23 ahhh Mar 22 02:47:37 ok then I take it back, PatrickC_Pre2, stop whining Mar 22 02:48:08 but there still should be something of a system for people that upgrade Mar 22 02:48:25 PatrickC_Pre2: if you bought a game that said it was only for a specific platform, you got what you paid for. Mar 22 02:48:27 there is. Pay another $1.99 Mar 22 02:49:11 i probably will Mar 22 02:49:44 I mean it's not like it's 50$ Mar 22 02:49:47 it's 1.99 Mar 22 02:50:15 Now, you'd be well within your rights to get the pixi version from your pixi, back it up, and try to hack it to work on your pre Mar 22 02:50:19 that I think would be fair use. Mar 22 02:50:26 true Mar 22 02:50:41 but that would also require much more than $1.99 of his time. Mar 22 02:50:47 the pixi is now at sprint :'( Mar 22 02:50:54 but could be worth much more in the long run. Mar 22 02:51:12 not really :I Mar 22 02:51:12 in other words Mar 22 02:51:14 you didn't back up all your apps/data before you switched?!?! Mar 22 02:51:19 i did Mar 22 02:51:28 but it didnt restore angry birds Mar 22 02:51:37 haeffb: almost nobody backs up their apps offline Mar 22 02:51:57 * PatrickC_Pre2 haeffb probably does Mar 22 02:52:20 I have, some of the really big ones especially Mar 22 02:52:45 is that *legal*? Mar 22 02:53:20 PatrickC_Pre2: up to a judge, but generally personal backup of games you buy is considered under the fair use exemption to copyright law Mar 22 02:53:41 true Mar 22 02:53:56 for some reason, i was thinking "any backup was bad" Mar 22 02:53:58 depends on if the DCMA gets involved or not Mar 22 02:54:37 dcma? Mar 22 02:54:46 DMCA rather, oops! Mar 22 02:54:46 the copyright act? Mar 22 02:55:01 digital millennium copyright act Mar 22 02:55:14 thought thats what it was Mar 22 02:55:46 "Dear Rovio, Mar 22 02:56:00 Please Open Source Angry Birds for webOS. Mar 22 02:56:05 Thank you" Mar 22 02:56:10 "sure thing!" Mar 22 02:56:20 "Thanks!" Mar 22 02:56:43 lol Mar 22 02:56:48 its not like what they've done can't be duplicated Mar 22 02:56:53 its a very simple game Mar 22 02:57:03 sure it is Mar 22 02:57:13 just you'll forever be "like angry birds" Mar 22 02:57:38 oil: make Angry Pigs :) Mar 22 02:57:44 they do a good job with adding value to it though Mar 22 02:57:48 oil: angry birds is like scorched earth and a billion other parabolic arc catapult kind of games that just never got so well known Mar 22 02:58:00 they keep updating it with new levels without charging out the you know what for it Mar 22 02:58:17 destinal: that makes me want to start up dosbox and play scorched earth :) Mar 22 02:58:43 oil: yeah scorched earth was awesome Mar 22 02:58:52 s/was/is!/ Mar 22 02:58:58 err, that too :) Mar 22 02:58:59 * PatrickC_Pre2 never heard of scorched earth Mar 22 02:59:08 too young Mar 22 02:59:40 * oil thinks destinal should port it to webos :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 22 02:59:57 2011