**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 14 02:59:57 2011
Jun 14 04:20:32 <LoneStar99> anyone know how to make a paid app free? nopt given the option when updating app...
Jun 14 04:24:03 <LoneStar99> i can't change it =(
Jun 14 04:50:46 <LoneStar99> how do I unfocus from a text box?
Jun 14 04:50:58 <LoneStar99> on app startup?
Jun 14 04:51:07 <ryanwatkins> mytextbox.blur();
Jun 14 04:51:44 <LoneStar99> ryanwatkins:  let me try that
Jun 14 04:51:46 <LoneStar99> thanks
Jun 14 04:52:03 <LoneStar99> mytextbox --> "div id"?
Jun 14 04:52:37 <ryanwatkins> whatever refrence you have to the node.  document.getElementById if you need to.
Jun 14 04:53:11 <ryanwatkins> document.getElementById("mytextbox").blur();
Jun 14 04:54:04 <LoneStar99> ok thanks
Jun 14 04:54:15 <LoneStar99> got an app rejected cuss of it...
Jun 14 05:06:15 <dwc-> torchie: QR codes aren't bad.  It's your fixed-focus smartphone that sucks.
Jun 14 05:49:05 <dohtem> dwc-: +1
Jun 14 05:57:56 <torchie> so it is the cliq and 3gs
Jun 14 05:58:03 <torchie> is there a qr app for webos yet
Jun 14 06:01:06 <dwc-> don't expect the pre to be much better
Jun 14 06:01:16 <dwc-> there are at least 3 that I know of, 1 is offline
Jun 14 06:11:14 <hotdp> Good morning
Jun 14 06:16:07 <LoneStar99> morning hotdp
Jun 14 06:48:33 <dawm_> sooo  tired
Jun 14 06:48:43 <dawm_> never working pm shift again..
Jun 14 06:51:58 <dawm_> ha ha
Jun 14 06:51:58 <dawm_> Cords? Where we’re going – we don’t NEED cords. The HP TouchPad charges wirelessly via Touchstone technology
Jun 14 06:52:09 <hotdp> ?
Jun 14 06:53:13 <dawm_> HP posted that on facebook
Jun 14 06:53:34 <dwc-> the touchstone is powered by magic smoke, right?
Jun 14 06:53:41 <dawm_> yeah
Jun 14 06:53:47 <dawm_> they went to the lost island and bottled that shit
Jun 14 06:54:01 <dawm_> http://www.facebook.com/HP/posts/10150628369150290
Jun 14 06:54:24 <dawm_> fuck.. im so tired but unable to actually sleep
Jun 14 06:54:44 <dawm_> worked 2pm to 2am today.. my normal shift is 5am to 330pm.. never gonna do that shit again
Jun 14 06:56:22 <hotdp> lay down and watch some crappy tv
Jun 14 06:56:29 <hotdp> it always works
Jun 14 07:15:20 <dawm_> btw theres a woot off going on (woot.com)
Jun 14 07:28:56 <LoneStar99> focus back to text field code -->  event.preventDefault();  this.controller.get('sendField').mojo.focus();
Jun 14 07:40:57 <LoneStar99> alright folks chat in a few hours gonna hit the hay!
Jun 14 11:59:08 <dawm_> if HP doesnt give us a nice discount on the touchpad, ive got a buddy that works at best buy that might let me use his discount ;D
Jun 14 12:07:30 <Naranek> nice one
Jun 14 12:39:34 <wilsonmar> I'm a newbie to IRC. What's with the underlines in nicknames?
Jun 14 12:39:57 <dawm_> nothing
Jun 14 12:40:02 <dawm_> for me
Jun 14 12:40:05 <dawm_> it means dawm was in use
Jun 14 12:40:12 <dawm_> and im too lazy to switch :P
Jun 14 12:41:11 <wilsonmar> in use as that person has typed something into the room?
Jun 14 12:41:58 <dawm> no
Jun 14 12:42:10 <dawm> as in i got disconnected, and the server thought i was still there
Jun 14 12:42:17 <dawm> i rejoined and it was still 'stuck'
Jun 14 12:43:13 <wilsonmar> ok. so you sign in as dawn_ if dawn is no longer available
Jun 14 12:43:45 <dawm> yes my client appends _ if the preferred nickname is in use
Jun 14 12:44:31 <wilsonmar> I use webchat.freenode.net
Jun 14 12:49:02 <dawm> im using xchat
Jun 14 13:52:43 <LoneStar99> morning folks
Jun 14 14:01:21 <haeffb_pre> hi
Jun 14 14:02:12 <LoneStar99> howdy haeffb_pre
Jun 14 15:20:05 <dohtem> this is my next borg!
Jun 14 15:20:27 <dohtem> cant believe deiter joined them... awesome!
Jun 14 15:21:18 <LoneStar99> borg?
Jun 14 15:21:31 <dohtem> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29
Jun 14 15:21:58 <LoneStar99> right on
Jun 14 15:22:29 <maik> any of you guys know any more details about the enterprise lock-down feature mentioned at HP Discover?
Jun 14 15:22:41 <maik> specifically, how an IT department is going to control such a feature?
Jun 14 15:23:05 <maik> i don't think they can make it EAS only for the fact that a lot of companies don't use Exchange
Jun 14 15:25:23 <twbbas> I'm not sure how they'd intially lock it down but once it's locked, it requires a password to go into dev mode.
Jun 14 15:26:09 <maik> right, i get that latter part, just curious about the method of locking
Jun 14 15:26:48 <twbbas> Look at this picture: http://forums.precentral.net/attachments/hp-veer/58085d1307647222-little-help-webos-noob-devmodeswitcher_2011-30-05_111700.png
Jun 14 15:26:58 <twbbas> It looks like there is a developer mode app to set a password
Jun 14 15:27:02 <twbbas> Maybe that's how they lock it?
Jun 14 15:27:30 <summatusmentis> I wonder if it's not an Exchange setting
Jun 14 15:27:44 <twbbas> "This is the password set via the Developer Mode app using "Set/Change Password" option"
Jun 14 15:28:13 <twbbas> I guess the IT person has to go into each phone and set a dev mode password
Jun 14 15:28:35 <summatusmentis> there's gotta be a back-end for that right?
Jun 14 15:28:42 <twbbas> There was a conversation on twitter earlier about what happens if the person doctors their phone. No one really knows if they'd prevent that
Jun 14 15:28:54 <summatusmentis> there's no way they're going to need to handle every single device, right?
Jun 14 15:28:59 <twbbas> I hope not
Jun 14 15:29:16 <twbbas> ooo I just had an idea
Jun 14 15:29:39 <twbbas> What if for the enterprise palm profiles, they set each palm profile to a "parent" profile of the company
Jun 14 15:30:00 <summatusmentis> so that it relates to whatever username you use for the company?
Jun 14 15:30:06 <twbbas> That "parent" profile has data of the company's specific apps and dev mode password
Jun 14 15:30:21 <summatusmentis> oh, I see, tiered accounts
Jun 14 15:30:24 <summatusmentis> interesting
Jun 14 15:30:26 <twbbas> Yeah, just an idea
Jun 14 15:30:33 <twbbas> Seems like a good way to do it
Jun 14 15:30:34 <summatusmentis> almost a "group" that your profile would belong to
Jun 14 15:30:37 <twbbas> Yeah
Jun 14 15:30:46 <summatusmentis> yeah, that'd be my guess
Jun 14 15:30:52 <twbbas> Easily send out specific apps to all your company's devices
Jun 14 15:30:59 <twbbas> and it saves the problem about if the person doctors their phone
Jun 14 15:31:04 <twbbas> because they'd just log into their old profile
Jun 14 15:31:06 <summatusmentis> yeah, intriguing
Jun 14 15:34:16 <sugardave> haeffb_pre: bumped it
Jun 14 15:37:03 <sugardave> good morning chuqui
Jun 14 15:38:47 <chuqui> sugardave: good morning!
Jun 14 15:39:09 <haeffb_pre> hi sugardave and chuqui
Jun 14 15:39:35 <LoneStar99> morning sugardave & chuqui
Jun 14 15:39:37 <chuqui> haeffb_pre: and a happy hello to you!
Jun 14 15:39:42 <LoneStar99> and all the other blokes
Jun 14 15:40:50 <ryanwatkins> anyone here an instapaper user?
Jun 14 15:41:20 <dohtem> greets & salutations!
Jun 14 15:42:19 * ryanwatkins might have an app that could be useful to someone that .. you know uses Instapaper and has one of those new TouchPads or emulated version there of.
Jun 14 15:43:53 <kristianpaul> The closed source part of webOS is related to linux drivers for some specific hw (GPS, GSM, Camera..) or there is something else?
Jun 14 15:44:29 <summatusmentis> kristianpaul: also the launcher stuff, and some parts of Luna
Jun 14 15:44:30 <summatusmentis> iirc
Jun 14 15:44:53 <summatusmentis> I think technically it's all "closed source" in that you don't have rights to redistribute
Jun 14 15:45:19 <summatusmentis> but a fair amount of it, the source is readable
Jun 14 15:45:22 <kristianpaul> ah :/
Jun 14 15:45:48 <summatusmentis> well, all is strong. I should qualify, there's some of the linux userspace that's all open source
Jun 14 15:45:56 <kristianpaul> I tought was smortly GPL, so wikipedia article need an update :-)
Jun 14 15:46:15 <summatusmentis> the GUI stuff is technically "closed source" (see above), but the source is readable
Jun 14 15:46:17 <kristianpaul> s/smortly/mostly
Jun 14 15:46:45 <kristianpaul> okay
Jun 14 15:46:58 <summatusmentis> and in 2.x, the launcher became binaries (written in QT)
Jun 14 15:47:09 <kristianpaul> Is it true it uses open emdebbed?
Jun 14 15:47:45 <summatusmentis> I'm not sure, I believe there's evidence to support that HP uses OpenEmbedded internally
Jun 14 15:47:46 <kristianpaul> or may be i'm confused and there is aport of oe, and this is wrong place to ask  for it ;)
Jun 14 15:49:08 <kristianpaul> okay, i got my answers,
Jun 14 15:49:11 <kristianpaul> bye bye
Jun 14 15:49:32 <summatusmentis> erm, ok
Jun 14 15:49:45 <summatusmentis> they're gonna go and quote me in places
Jun 14 15:49:54 <summatusmentis> and I'm gonna be wrong
Jun 14 15:51:14 <summatusmentis> this is why I don't answer questions :)
Jun 14 15:55:15 <sugardave> summatusmentis: just pretend that you're right
Jun 14 15:55:22 <sugardave> it sounds more convincing
Jun 14 15:55:28 <summatusmentis> I mean, yes
Jun 14 15:55:39 <sugardave> there you go
Jun 14 15:55:41 <summatusmentis> except, when I get quoted on wikipedia, that's less of a good idea
Jun 14 15:57:55 <summatusmentis> I want a new phone
Jun 14 15:58:11 <summatusmentis> my pre- is gonna kick the bucket soon
Jun 14 15:59:17 <sugardave> mine, too...my contract is up in 2 days I think
Jun 14 15:59:22 <cwayne> http://imgur.com/CkP9I
Jun 14 16:01:24 <summatusmentis> my contract has been up, which is nice, I wish there was a cdma veer
Jun 14 16:03:19 <dawm> isnt theer a cdma/gsm veer? or was that pre3
Jun 14 16:03:35 <dawm> i know read something on precentral about one of em being a super worldfone
Jun 14 16:03:36 <summatusmentis> that was pre3
Jun 14 16:03:46 <dawm> w/ both radios
Jun 14 16:03:51 <summatusmentis> yeh, pre3, iirc
Jun 14 16:04:18 <dawm> god damn it sprint.. fucking stop being androidhappy and give us the pre3
Jun 14 16:07:13 <summatusmentis> rumor has it they will
Jun 14 16:07:47 <sugardave> orly?
Jun 14 16:07:52 <summatusmentis> I think it was webosroundup that reported on a rumor of a 4G pre3
Jun 14 16:08:02 <dawm> sick of rumors
Jun 14 16:08:05 <dawm> want hard evidence
Jun 14 16:08:12 <dawm> my pre- is slowly showing its age
Jun 14 16:09:41 <dawm> wtf is this little girl commerical crap
Jun 14 16:10:34 <summatusmentis> with ah, whatshername?
Jun 14 16:10:36 <summatusmentis> iCarly?
Jun 14 16:10:44 <summatusmentis> or webOSquire's daughter?
Jun 14 16:10:46 <dawm> http://www.precentral.net/tween-veer-peer-gives-her-thoughts-veer
Jun 14 16:11:06 <summatusmentis> that's webOSquire's daughter
Jun 14 16:11:17 <dawm> oh i thought it was some hp thing
Jun 14 16:11:33 <summatusmentis> well, it is
Jun 14 16:11:56 <summatusmentis> it's a program called Veer Peers, where they give you a Veer, and you're supposed to share your experiences
Jun 14 16:12:06 <summatusmentis> he gave the one he was given to his daughter
Jun 14 16:12:12 <summatusmentis> and recorded a video
Jun 14 16:12:16 <dawm> oh nice
Jun 14 16:13:50 <summatusmentis> "cuz you know, most phones? don't have mirrors"
Jun 14 16:14:45 <summatusmentis> I can't find the article that was talking about the pre3 being on sprint
Jun 14 16:14:47 <dawm> they almost all do
Jun 14 16:14:53 <dawm> just not usable ;p
Jun 14 16:15:03 * twbbas doesn't have to use his screen as a mirror
Jun 14 16:15:24 <dawm> theres almost always a chrome ring or small trim piece on the back near the camera
Jun 14 16:16:02 <summatusmentis> yeah, that's true
Jun 14 16:16:07 <summatusmentis> but the 9 year old didn't know that
Jun 14 16:16:15 <dawm> again not useful as the pre/veer
Jun 14 16:16:21 <dawm> + as
Jun 14 16:17:04 <ryanwatkins> probably not too many 9yr olds buying smartphones either.
Jun 14 16:19:08 <summatusmentis> granted
Jun 14 16:19:35 <ryanwatkins> lack of a credit card also likely limits their app store purchases as well
Jun 14 16:20:23 <ryanwatkins> or maybe HP is just in this for the long haul -- webOS takes over in 9 yrs when those 9yr olds turn 18.
Jun 14 16:26:27 <LoneStar99> anyone know the useragent for a webos device that is 320 wide?
Jun 14 16:26:39 <LoneStar99> for pre, pixi, veer..
Jun 14 16:29:52 <ryanwatkins> http://deviceatlas.com/devices/palm - find device, scroll down.
Jun 14 16:31:03 <ryanwatkins> data can be a bit messy, but its a good start.
Jun 14 16:33:23 <summatusmentis> ryanwatkins: to be fair, I'm 22, and have only purchased 2 apps
Jun 14 16:33:43 <summatusmentis> Angry Birds and Carbon
Jun 14 16:33:59 <LoneStar99> yeah got a conflict, with a web form, works on mobile devices, but not on touchpad emulator, so need a way to parse the user agent for only "pre, pixi, veer"
Jun 14 16:39:09 <ryanwatkins> a webkit difference, or just something not fitting on screen for the smaller display?
Jun 14 16:41:46 <LoneStar99> ryanwatkins: the keyboard does not put up in tp emu... b/c of --> "<meta name="viewport" content="width=100%; initial-scale=1.0; user-scalable=no"/>"
Jun 14 16:42:05 <LoneStar99> and do not what to have 2 different forms
Jun 14 16:43:31 <ryanwatkins> LoneStar99: user-scaleable=no prevents the keyboard from appearing?
Jun 14 16:45:41 <LoneStar99> let me verify
Jun 14 16:46:03 <ryanwatkins> just think that meta stuff would break the TP for all kinds of sites then.
Jun 14 16:46:06 <WillowDappleNost> dammit
Jun 14 16:46:19 <sugardave> won't fit by 4 chars
Jun 14 16:49:05 <LoneStar99> ryanwatkins:  "user-scalable=no" no bueno for TP...
Jun 14 16:51:58 <ryanwatkins> so that'd be a big bug for HP if it repros in the emulator.  Their own site - developer.palm.com sets user-scaleable=0
Jun 14 16:52:49 <LoneStar99> ryanwatkins: yeap gald i tested out the web form multiple times...
Jun 14 16:56:20 <sugardave> I can get the keyboard to come up at developer.palm.com sign in page
Jun 14 16:57:27 <sugardave> but I can't log in....weird
Jun 14 17:00:10 <sugardave> forum search box also pops the keyboard
Jun 14 17:00:42 <LoneStar99> dev sign up page has the following: <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0, user-scalable=0" />
Jun 14 17:02:54 <LoneStar99> i use the same meta on my form and keyboard popup broken
Jun 14 17:03:45 <ryanwatkins> user-scaleable=no vs 0?  or possibly an interaction with something else.
Jun 14 17:03:58 <LoneStar99> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0" /> works
Jun 14 17:04:52 <sugardave> holy crap...just paired my Pre - with the TouchPad and made a call...that is so cool
Jun 14 17:05:08 <LoneStar99> sugardave: that is killer
Jun 14 17:07:18 <haeffb_pre> sugardave: you're a little slow
Jun 14 17:07:36 <sugardave> yeah, I didn't expect it to work on the ancient hardware
Jun 14 17:18:33 <dawm> http://stocklogos.com/node/31010
Jun 14 17:18:35 <dawm> nice
Jun 14 17:18:46 <dawm> mark zuckerberg's personal stationary
Jun 14 17:28:33 <twbbas> sugardave: Isn't that pairing for sms/phone supposed to work for any bluetooth phone?
Jun 14 17:28:55 <sugardave> maybe so :D
Jun 14 17:32:06 <Loudergood> one can hope.
Jun 14 17:32:22 * Loudergood wonders if you can pair a wii remote to a touchpad...
Jun 14 17:36:11 <twbbas> ugh
Jun 14 17:36:19 <twbbas> Mojo -> Enyo transition is annoying for some things
Jun 14 17:36:28 <summatusmentis> you ought to be able to pair the wii-mote with any bluetooth device with the right profiles
Jun 14 17:38:44 <maik> i'm just working through the Enyo tutorial for the first time, wow
Jun 14 17:41:24 <twbbas> I'm past that but I'm having trouble with _____ that was easy in mojo
Jun 14 17:42:35 <summatusmentis> so to be coming down hard, or whatever, is discussing the enyo tutorial covered by the NDA?
Jun 14 17:43:37 <maik> simply stating i'm working through the Enyo tutorial for the first time?
Jun 14 17:43:50 <maik> or deeper discussion of "OMG FEATURE X IS SO TOTALLY COOL!"
Jun 14 17:44:07 <summatusmentis> well, I guess that's sort of the question I'm asking
Jun 14 17:44:23 <oilsworkn> there's a tutorial?!?!?!
Jun 14 17:44:31 <sugardave> :/
Jun 14 17:44:58 <maik> the first rule about [redacted] is you never mention [redacted]
Jun 14 17:45:03 <summatusmentis> wouldn't "working through the enyou tutorial" == "I have access to enyo" ?
Jun 14 17:45:24 <maik> not if i got it through other nefarious means
Jun 14 17:45:30 * oilsworkn is still waiting for sugardave to figure it out and teach it to him
Jun 14 17:45:43 <maik> but if one had access to enyo, would saying "i have access to enyo" be an NDA breach?
Jun 14 17:45:55 <summatusmentis> I thought so, but I might be wrong
Jun 14 17:46:12 * oilsworkn thinks its best to error on the side of caution
Jun 14 17:46:16 <maik> i should at least be able to say "i'm not allowed to talk about it"
Jun 14 17:46:17 <summatusmentis> I agree
Jun 14 17:46:39 <summatusmentis> I think "I'm not allowed to talk about the enyo tutorial I'm working through" is less solid though :)
Jun 14 17:46:52 <maik> heh
Jun 14 17:47:15 <maik> if i hadn't signed an NDA and got it through nefarious means and was talking about it, then what?
Jun 14 17:47:47 <ryanwatkins> then your not bound by the nda, but your still bound by the sdk license when running the installer.
Jun 14 17:48:02 <maik> excellent
Jun 14 17:48:15 <oilsworkn> hey sugardave, get them to drop the nda on enyo, thanks
Jun 14 17:48:24 <summatusmentis> 100x this.
Jun 14 17:48:27 <maik> i'd say which, but i'm under NDA so i can't talk about it
Jun 14 17:48:54 <summatusmentis> lol
Jun 14 17:49:09 <maik> there's a loop here somewhere, i can feel it
Jun 14 17:49:38 <twbbas> Yeah. Taking the NDA off of Enyo would be amazing
Jun 14 17:49:59 <oilsworkn> "Did you mean: recursion"?
Jun 14 17:50:28 <ryanwatkins> cuz thats what dev relations is busy with for the next couple weeks before product launch - wrangling with the lawyers, or approving apps?
Jun 14 17:50:41 <oilsworkn> both!
Jun 14 17:50:46 <ryanwatkins> i want it all!
Jun 14 17:51:47 <summatusmentis> guuuh, I need a new computer
Jun 14 17:51:51 <oilsworkn> and sugardave will deliver it
Jun 14 17:53:43 * haeffb_pre wondering which is better: wirc on small screen & tiny physical keyboard or large screen & virtual kb ... ?
Jun 14 17:54:00 <summatusmentis> haeffb_pre: I really like wirc on my pre
Jun 14 17:54:25 <haeffb_pre> me too, but don't tell oilsworkn
Jun 14 17:55:31 <oilsworkn> both will be equally awesome
Jun 14 17:55:41 <oilsworkn> because you'll all have the wireless keyboard for your touchpads
Jun 14 17:56:56 * summatusmentis probably will, actually
Jun 14 17:57:32 <haeffb_pre> oh, good point.
Jun 14 17:58:29 <haeffb_pre> but will my pre explode if I use freetether to wirc on TP while streaming radio?
Jun 14 17:58:50 <haeffb_pre> or just melt thru the desk?
Jun 14 17:59:03 <oilsworkn> melt through desk, THEN explode
Jun 14 17:59:26 <halfhalo> followed by tiny violins
Jun 14 17:59:43 <summatusmentis> then it'll send the melting to your TouchPad via Bluetooth
Jun 14 17:59:52 <summatusmentis> you'll be able to respond to it from your tablet1
Jun 14 18:00:01 <summatusmentis> s/tablet1/tablet!/
Jun 14 18:00:15 <oilsworkn> or wait for the 3g version
Jun 14 18:00:24 <oilsworkn> and pay for another dataplan
Jun 14 18:00:25 <oilsworkn> HAHA
Jun 14 18:00:30 <halfhalo> thats mah plan.  EVERYTHING needs 3g
Jun 14 18:00:38 <summatusmentis> guh
Jun 14 18:00:39 <halfhalo> toaster? hell yes, it needs 3g!
Jun 14 18:00:43 <summatusmentis> cannot afford another dataplan
Jun 14 18:00:56 <summatusmentis> they don't pay grad students well enough
Jun 14 18:01:03 * oilsworkn only needs so many unlimited connections to the internet
Jun 14 18:01:22 <oilsworkn> one stationary at home, one mobile on my phone
Jun 14 18:01:29 <summatusmentis> indeed
Jun 14 18:02:03 * halfhalo has datas on his phone, ipad, wifi at home, and crap wifi at school/work which is made up by the awesomeness of wired at work
Jun 14 18:02:32 <oilsworkn> too much
Jun 14 18:02:40 <summatusmentis> halfhalo: d'you pay the 2GB fee for ipad? or the 200MB?
Jun 14 18:02:46 <summatusmentis> (assuming att)
Jun 14 18:03:09 <halfhalo> 200MB atm, but i just bumped my phone up from 2GB to 4GB + tethering, so going to kill the ipad plan for now
Jun 14 18:03:16 <oilsworkn> totally going to throw "d'you" into my messages more often
Jun 14 18:03:26 <oilsworkn> as if the o(space) is too much xD
Jun 14 18:03:40 <summatusmentis> heh
Jun 14 18:03:43 <halfhalo> what if you get charged per vowel? WHAT THEN
Jun 14 18:03:50 <summatusmentis> I just like it because it's more accurate to the way I speak
Jun 14 18:03:55 <summatusmentis> I also use would've
Jun 14 18:04:56 * oilsworkn always feels weirds making his own contractions
Jun 14 18:05:22 <haeffb_pre> me t'
Jun 14 18:05:46 <summatusmentis> hrr
Jun 14 18:06:17 <sugardave> IF there were an Enyo tutorial you wouldn't be able to talk about it...yet
Jun 14 18:07:33 <oilsworkn> so lets say I were rewriting this app: http://bit.ly/b1ncMz
Jun 14 18:07:42 <oilsworkn> and wanted icons for each of the features
Jun 14 18:07:50 <oilsworkn> who has good icon ideas?
Jun 14 18:08:16 <halfhalo> I want a gif of a lumberjack.
Jun 14 18:08:49 <oilsworkn> so no ideas?
Jun 14 18:08:54 <summatusmentis> you have too many things called monitors
Jun 14 18:08:59 <summatusmentis> and too many things called logs
Jun 14 18:09:05 <oilsworkn> i figure resource monitor would be a line graph icon
Jun 14 18:09:19 <ryanwatkins> a lumberjack carrying a log, a lumberjack chasing after a log, a lumberjack reading a clipboard, a lumberjack lookikng at his watch, and ... one more.
Jun 14 18:09:21 <oilsworkn> but i dont know how to distinguish the others :/
Jun 14 18:09:26 <sugardave> oilsworkn: http://thenounproject.com/
Jun 14 18:09:36 <summatusmentis> ryanwatkins: I actually really like that
Jun 14 18:09:56 <oilsworkn> too bad im not that good of an artist :/
Jun 14 18:10:19 <ryanwatkins> then square, circle, triangle, rectangle and start.  and make the user guess.
Jun 14 18:10:23 <summatusmentis> sugardave: are those CC?
Jun 14 18:10:48 <sugardave> I think so
Jun 14 18:11:06 <oilsworkn> i search for log, and it shows be blog
Jun 14 18:11:35 <oilsworkn> s/be/me/
Jun 14 18:12:28 <oilsworkn> http://thenounproject.com/noun/watch/
Jun 14 18:12:31 <oilsworkn> probably good for scene timing
Jun 14 18:12:53 <oilsworkn> though, that one may go away :/
Jun 14 18:14:51 <summatusmentis> oh, their licences are specific to the icon
Jun 14 18:15:01 <oilsworkn> im going to be adding little stats for random display in teh app
Jun 14 18:15:36 <oilsworkn> like "300mb of logs retrieved" "10 hours spent following logs" and others :)
Jun 14 18:18:17 <twbbas> "There are 1.2m lumberjacks currently lumberjacking"
Jun 14 18:18:45 <oilsworkn> lol
Jun 14 18:18:57 <oilsworkn> well, that would require server-side stuffs
Jun 14 18:19:18 <twbbas> Only to make it accurate ;)
Jun 14 18:19:22 <oilsworkn> and its not the main focus of the app, just something on the side to make you go "oh really?"
Jun 14 18:20:51 <summatusmentis> someone needs to make a p2p framework for webos
Jun 14 18:21:02 <summatusmentis> forget all this server-side stuffs
Jun 14 18:21:12 <oilsworkn> yeah
Jun 14 18:21:41 <summatusmentis> I've been thinking about it, sort of
Jun 14 18:21:46 <oilsworkn> i was hoping to get a c programmer to make a bluetooth plugin so mojo/enyo apps could use it to communicate for local games
Jun 14 18:22:19 <summatusmentis> I do know C, but almost nothing about bt
Jun 14 18:22:25 <LoneStar99> updating apps, i copied over some debugged code, now have to go back and debugg the freaking code =(
Jun 14 18:23:21 <jss_> hey..
Jun 14 18:23:42 <oilsworkn> summatusmentis: well learn :)
Jun 14 18:23:45 <jss_> i was using palm version 1.3 something..
Jun 14 18:23:51 * oilsworkn even has an app he would use it in
Jun 14 18:23:58 <oilsworkn> 1.3.x is pretty old
Jun 14 18:23:59 <jss_> now  have installed version 3.0
Jun 14 18:24:09 <jss_> that usses envyo framework..
Jun 14 18:24:17 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: if you wanted to give me a sense of what kind of api you'd be looking for, I could look into it
Jun 14 18:24:50 <jss_> now commands in cmd are not working...
Jun 14 18:25:00 <jss_> is there ny difference in commands
Jun 14 18:25:02 <jss_> ?
Jun 14 18:25:36 <oilsworkn> summatusmentis: i was thinking a way to discover and return the device, then a simple way to send data back and forth
Jun 14 18:25:49 <summatusmentis> hrm
Jun 14 18:25:52 <oilsworkn> though, i dont know if the pre can even to serial bluetooth to another phone
Jun 14 18:25:58 <oilsworkn> i thought i remembered seeing smething like it
Jun 14 18:26:02 <oilsworkn> but dont have any specifics
Jun 14 18:26:11 <summatusmentis> yeah, I was just wondering about the profiles that are allowed
Jun 14 18:26:37 <oilsworkn> yeah, im no bluetooth expert
Jun 14 18:26:52 <oilsworkn> i just thought if it was simple enough, and a plugin, it could be included in any app
Jun 14 18:27:34 <oilsworkn> jss_: 3.x/enyo is under NDA
Jun 14 18:27:42 <oilsworkn> you can't talk about it here, use the early access forum for support
Jun 14 18:27:52 <jss_> how can i retrieve system time in sdk?
Jun 14 18:28:28 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: so, you'd be looking for something "local" (within bt range), rather than to any webos device?
Jun 14 18:28:35 <oilsworkn> summatusmentis: yeah
Jun 14 18:28:45 <summatusmentis> interesting
Jun 14 18:28:57 <oilsworkn> for simple communication to other near by devices also running the app/etc
Jun 14 18:29:37 <summatusmentis> I've been conceptualizing a decentralized p2p plugin/service so that it's not location dependent, but location dependency has interesting applications too
Jun 14 18:29:41 <oilsworkn> jss_: like, in javascript?
Jun 14 18:29:54 <oilsworkn> var d = new Date(); d.GetDate(); ?
Jun 14 18:30:10 <jss_> yes oilsworkn
Jun 14 18:30:21 <oilsworkn> summatusmentis: i've thought about doing it over the net
Jun 14 18:30:30 <jss_> but this will give me date...not time..?
Jun 14 18:30:31 <oilsworkn> but without a server to make the connections idk how to do it
Jun 14 18:30:38 <oilsworkn> jss_: google is your friend
Jun 14 18:31:54 <jss_> ??
Jun 14 18:32:20 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: well, yeah, over the net, the issue becomes discovery. I wonder how easy a distributed hash table would be to implement on top of node.js (if that's even possible)
Jun 14 18:32:39 <oilsworkn> jss_: http://tinyurl.com/3r2crym
Jun 14 18:33:30 <oilsworkn> summatusmentis: yeah, i have no idea haha
Jun 14 18:33:46 <oilsworkn> which is why i thought local bt, because it was easier in my head :)
Jun 14 18:37:23 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: I have a fair amount of distributed systems experience, which is why I'm thinking out loud about this
Jun 14 18:40:54 <oilsworkn> nice
Jun 14 18:41:19 <summatusmentis> I should learn node at some point
Jun 14 18:41:59 <oilsworkn> you and me both
Jun 14 18:42:17 <halfhalo> yes you should
Jun 14 18:42:48 <oilsworkn> meh
Jun 14 18:43:18 <oilsworkn> rwhitby does the c services for apps i work on, puffy does the plugins, and halfhalo does the node
Jun 14 18:43:24 <oilsworkn> why would i want to do those parts? xD
Jun 14 18:43:32 <halfhalo> chicks
Jun 14 18:43:38 <oilsworkn> ah
Jun 14 18:47:21 <summatusmentis> oh, huh, there's a bonjour service for node
Jun 14 18:47:26 <summatusmentis> intriguing
Jun 14 18:47:31 <sugardave> fancy that!
Jun 14 18:47:51 <summatusmentis> I mean, I sort of assumed as much, but that's neat
Jun 14 18:48:16 <sugardave> but what version of node....that is the killer question
Jun 14 18:48:25 <halfhalo> all of them!
Jun 14 18:49:02 <sugardave> no paycheck today, drats
Jun 14 18:49:21 <summatusmentis> the github doesn't say
Jun 14 18:49:28 <summatusmentis> but it's linked from the node site
Jun 14 18:50:03 <summatusmentis> oilsworkn: if this bonjour service for node is functional with the version on webos, that'll get you essentially what you're looking for, and you could define your own APIs
Jun 14 18:50:21 <KnuckleSangwich> Think I'm overlooking something...I have the RC1 webos 3 SDK but not sure how to install on my pre 2 for testing
Jun 14 18:50:47 <sugardave> KnuckleSangwich: you don't
Jun 14 18:50:50 <summatusmentis> first, you're not really supposed to talk about whether or not you have the webos 3 sdk
Jun 14 18:50:59 <summatusmentis> but also, pre2 can't use enyo
Jun 14 18:51:05 <oilsworkn> well
Jun 14 18:51:26 <KnuckleSangwich> got it - sorry
Jun 14 18:51:43 <oilsworkn> yeah, or we'll give ya a KnuckleSangwich!
Jun 14 18:51:53 <summatusmentis> heh
Jun 14 18:52:05 <KnuckleSangwich> ;)
Jun 14 18:52:11 <sugardave> KnuckleSangwich: you CAN include enyo in your app and package it to test...but probably better to stick with the emulator or Chrome/Chromium to test apps
Jun 14 18:52:14 <sugardave> oh shit
Jun 14 18:52:22 <sugardave> stupid mishit /msg
Jun 14 18:52:40 <summatusmentis> KnuckleSangwich: not a super huge deal, you're just technically under NDA with the 3.0 DK
Jun 14 18:52:43 <summatusmentis> SDK*
Jun 14 18:52:54 <oilsworkn> uuuuuummmmm um um um um, I'm tellllllling
Jun 14 18:53:03 <sugardave> :P
Jun 14 18:53:16 <summatusmentis> ok, well, now it's a big deal because oil is gonna be a tattle-tale
Jun 14 18:53:23 <oilsworkn> lol
Jun 14 18:53:37 * sugardave adds DOS linebreaks to wIRC source.
Jun 14 18:53:43 <oilsworkn> hopefully 3.x comes to the pre2
Jun 14 18:53:48 * halfhalo hands oil a knife
Jun 14 18:53:52 <oilsworkn> since its coming to veer/pre3 right?
Jun 14 18:54:00 <summatusmentis> I think in theory
Jun 14 18:54:34 <oilsworkn> and at least hte pre2 has webos2
Jun 14 18:54:48 <Loudergood> and the veer ;)
Jun 14 18:54:56 <oilsworkn> is the veer more powerful then the pre2?
Jun 14 18:55:51 <Loudergood> 800mhz veer vs 1ghz pre2..so theoretically it is
Jun 14 18:56:04 <summatusmentis> that's... what?
Jun 14 18:56:18 <summatusmentis> how is 800mhz theoretically more powerful than 1ghz?
Jun 14 18:56:55 <oilsworkn> who cares, he had the numbers
Jun 14 18:57:00 <Loudergood> wow I typed that backwards from what I meant
Jun 14 18:57:06 <Loudergood> must be time to go home
Jun 14 18:57:11 <oilsworkn> so, if 3.x comes to veer, it BETTER come to pre2
Jun 14 18:57:19 <oilsworkn> sugardave: you taking notes?
Jun 14 18:57:23 <summatusmentis> he did, but specificity and clarity are important
Jun 14 18:57:28 <summatusmentis> >__>
Jun 14 18:57:32 <Loudergood> agreed
Jun 14 18:57:45 <summatusmentis> not to be a jerk about it, I didn't mean it that way
Jun 14 18:57:49 <summatusmentis> I was just confused
Jun 14 18:57:51 <Loudergood> I've been typing stupid crap like that a lot the last few weeks
Jun 14 18:58:46 <Loudergood> but yeah, pre2 > veer
Jun 14 18:59:27 <oilsworkn> its that time of day again
Jun 14 18:59:43 <Loudergood> haha, more like home time for me
Jun 14 19:22:23 <dawm> heh
Jun 14 19:22:28 <dawm> garmin to buy navigon
Jun 14 19:31:25 <hotdp> evning
Jun 14 19:52:59 <ka6sox-away> is there an app for keeping track of fredrex and oops packages in flight?
Jun 14 21:40:41 <twbbas> Someone should make a Google search by image app
Jun 14 21:41:22 <oilsworkn> so you wake an image and search for where its used?
Jun 14 21:41:34 <ryanwatkins> http://www.tineye.com/
Jun 14 21:41:42 * oilsworkn was JUST about to link it
Jun 14 21:41:43 <oilsworkn> haha
Jun 14 21:41:50 <twbbas> Google implemented "search by image" today
Jun 14 21:42:06 <twbbas> You drag an image from your computer into the search box on google.com and it does a reverse image search
Jun 14 21:42:11 <oilsworkn> so they basically ripped off tineye haha
Jun 14 21:42:23 <twbbas> Well, Google has had Google Goggles for a while on Android
Jun 14 21:42:26 <twbbas> I don't know which came first
Jun 14 21:42:42 <oilsworkn> im pretty sure tineye was around before google bought android
Jun 14 21:43:02 <ryanwatkins> goggles searches for what the thing in the image is, not the source for the image itself
Jun 14 21:43:21 <twbbas> Ah, so that's the difference
Jun 14 21:43:34 <twbbas> I guess google did rip off tin eye with their search by image
Jun 14 21:44:55 <torchiere> and now
Jun 14 21:44:57 <torchiere> tineye
Jun 14 21:44:58 <torchiere> will tin
Jun 14 21:44:59 <torchiere> DIEEEEEEEEEEEE
Jun 14 21:45:15 <twbbas> haha
Jun 14 21:45:19 <oilsworkn> googles a big bully
Jun 14 21:45:32 <halfhalo> yup
Jun 14 21:45:36 <halfhalo> i like em
Jun 14 21:45:39 * oilsworkn uses google to search for tineye to use it though
Jun 14 21:45:45 <oilsworkn> LOL
Jun 14 21:46:10 * twbbas lol'ed
Jun 14 21:47:19 <oilsworkn> thanks :)
Jun 14 21:47:24 <ryanwatkins> im sure that google gets an impressive number of searches for a term thats actually a full url.
Jun 14 21:47:51 <ryanwatkins> to alot of people the google search input and the url location box are the same thing.
Jun 14 21:48:29 <LoneStar99> "the google"
Jun 14 21:48:35 <oilsworkn> google for google
Jun 14 21:48:49 <oilsworkn> where is that damn comic
Jun 14 21:49:30 <oilsworkn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa9DLxDtPtc
Jun 14 21:50:06 <oilsworkn> enjoy :)
Jun 14 21:52:05 <LoneStar99> cool little comic
Jun 14 21:52:32 <oilsworkn> heh
Jun 14 21:52:54 <oilsworkn> for my loaner device xD
Jun 14 21:53:27 <oilsworkn> oh, work sucks
Jun 14 21:54:26 <twbbas> hahaha
Jun 14 21:54:31 <twbbas> that comic is awesome
Jun 14 21:55:46 <oilsworkn> yeah haha
Jun 14 21:55:58 <oilsworkn> i re-found it with google just to share :)
Jun 14 22:04:37 <torchiere> what's the website for google, honey?
Jun 14 22:05:12 <twbbas> just google it
Jun 14 22:05:28 <torchiere> BUT HOW CAN I GOOGLE GOOGLE WITHOUT GOOGLE
Jun 14 22:06:15 <twbbas> http://tinyurl.com/5wjfnt
Jun 14 22:39:55 <haeffb> man, eclipse is causing burns on my leg...
Jun 14 22:40:14 <Loudergood> lol
Jun 14 22:41:21 <haeffb> pegs the cpu on my laptop and the fan blows right on my thigh
Jun 14 22:41:56 <haeffb> might be time to find a new editor
Jun 14 22:46:01 <singmajesty> Ah, haven't been here in a while.
Jun 14 22:46:03 <singmajesty> Hi everyone
Jun 14 22:48:40 * singmajesty peers about, nervously
Jun 14 22:51:00 <Loudergood> quiet right now
Jun 14 22:57:08 <ryanwatkins> code deadline looming perhaps
Jun 14 22:57:47 <singmajesty> I was wondering the same thing
Jun 14 22:58:01 <singmajesty> Haven't been on here a long time, but it seemed awfully quiet for 100 people ;)
Jun 14 22:58:48 <singmajesty> I'm just working on Enyo code completion
Jun 14 23:00:54 <Popple3> I just forgot that I had Colloquy open :P
Jun 14 23:29:24 <Popple3> derp, forgot one little thing and got my app rejected :(
Jun 14 23:33:22 * twbbas wants a Pre 3
Jun 14 23:33:51 <summatusmentis> you and me both dude
Jun 14 23:36:23 <singmajesty> I'm pretty excited about the TouchPad coming out
Jun 14 23:36:30 <summatusmentis> you and me both dude
Jun 14 23:36:33 <summatusmentis> :-P
Jun 14 23:37:16 <twbbas> me too
Jun 14 23:37:39 <singmajesty> I think it is pretty cool that "summer" is meaning July, not September
Jun 14 23:38:08 <singmajesty> Seasons allow a fair amount of wiggle room
Jun 14 23:38:09 * twbbas agrees
Jun 14 23:38:45 <singmajesty> If you had a TouchPad today, what would you want to do with it most?
Jun 14 23:38:54 <twbbas> flick cards around
Jun 14 23:39:13 <twbbas> but for reals, I'd probably like to just browse my favorite websites
Jun 14 23:39:17 <summatusmentis> I don't know, I'm really excited about the cross-device synergy stuff
Jun 14 23:39:19 <twbbas> and maybe watch some netflix
Jun 14 23:39:46 <summatusmentis> is there gonna be a netflix app?
Jun 14 23:39:54 <twbbas> No announcement yet but probably
Jun 14 23:40:17 <twbbas> I can't wait to use Ares to make Enyo apps... on my TouchPad
Jun 14 23:40:33 <summatusmentis> twbbas: yeah, that'd be awesome
Jun 14 23:43:15 <singmajesty> The cross-device stuff is pretty cool. I wouldn't have thought that I would want to do text messaging or take phone calls with a tablet instead of a phone...
Jun 14 23:43:57 <singmajesty> ...but if I was working on an email or browsing the web, I can imagine it being cool to be able to take the call or take the conversation without pulling out the phone or having to switch away from what you are doing
Jun 14 23:44:57 <singmajesty> Personally, I'm excited to see the new TouchStone and the bluetooth keyboard
Jun 14 23:45:17 <singmajesty> If I had those, I bet I would want to use an IDE of some kind, or make one if it didn't exist ;)
Jun 14 23:45:30 <summatusmentis> yeah, that's mostly why I'm excited. I get enough text messages that it'd be nice to not have to change devices
Jun 14 23:45:32 <singmajesty> It could be very cool to tweak and develop an app on the device
Jun 14 23:45:53 <summatusmentis> dude, vim, screen, and a compiler are all you need
Jun 14 23:46:11 <summatusmentis> unless you're talking about webos apps, then you need a browser instead of a compiler
Jun 14 23:46:17 <singmajesty> Right, that's what I meant
Jun 14 23:46:31 <singmajesty> Like Internalz + code colored JS editor
Jun 14 23:46:41 <singmajesty> Update an Enyo app on the fly
Jun 14 23:46:56 <singmajesty> Seriously, though, I also wouldn't mind being able to do other types of development
Jun 14 23:47:06 <singmajesty> screen is for VNC, right?
Jun 14 23:47:49 <summatusmentis> not really
Jun 14 23:48:04 <ka6sox-home> screen is for consoles
Jun 14 23:48:07 <ka6sox-home> or command line
Jun 14 23:48:20 <summatusmentis> screen lets you save sessions in a terminal
Jun 14 23:48:21 <singmajesty> Ah, so you would use it to access a terminal on a remote server or device?
Jun 14 23:48:24 <Popple3> quick question, I've had an app rejected after submission, however it still says "Ready for Review" in the my apps portal, and I've been told to resubmit when I've fixed the issue
Jun 14 23:48:38 <Popple3> do I have to request rejection, wait for that to go through, then submit?
Jun 14 23:49:08 <singmajesty> Hah, sorry. I haven't used it before. I've been using Linux full-time for a few months, switching between vim and gedit for development, mostly
Jun 14 23:49:41 <singmajesty> Popple3: Nope. Requesting rejection would take it off the catalog (if its up already)
Jun 14 23:49:47 <summatusmentis> singmajesty: more like it'd let you keep a program running on the terminal, detach it, and then pick up where you left off (assuming you don't kill the job or the shut down the machine)
Jun 14 23:49:55 <singmajesty> Just make the fix and resubmit, and you should be fine
Jun 14 23:50:00 <Popple3> it's not up yet, and I can't resubmit :/
Jun 14 23:50:18 <singmajesty> Ah, I see. In that case, yeah, say that you want to cancel the submission
Jun 14 23:50:31 <singmajesty> The site should reset and let you start a new submission, I think
Jun 14 23:51:03 <Popple3> does the request rejection go through straight away, or does it get reviewed by someone first?
Jun 14 23:51:09 <singmajesty> summatusmentis: So it is a little bit like using tabs, without having a GUI?
Jun 14 23:51:16 <summatusmentis> singmajesty: yes, exactly
Jun 14 23:51:28 <singmajesty> Popple3: In this case, I think it should go through right away
Jun 14 23:51:34 <summatusmentis> I keep irssi running in screen on my VPS, so I can login, and still have it connected
Jun 14 23:51:36 <Popple3> singmajesty: Perfect, thanks :)
Jun 14 23:52:33 <singmajesty> Coming from Windows, I feel silly that I had only used PuTTy to access a shell on my phone
Jun 14 23:52:42 <singmajesty> Using novaterm is so easy
Jun 14 23:52:54 <summatusmentis> don't feel silly, there's no reason to
Jun 14 23:53:40 <singmajesty> It feels awesome to be able to use Ctrl+T to open a terminal, novaterm in and use vi to make quick changes
Jun 14 23:54:04 <singmajesty> If only the developers for other platforms had it so easy
Jun 14 23:54:33 <summatusmentis> it's really nice
Jun 14 23:58:00 <Popple3> wasn't instant :( Oh well, I'll get it resubmitted soon enough anyway I'm sure
Jun 14 23:58:07 <rwhitby> singmajesty: even easier to use sshfs and just edit the files on the device directly ;)
Jun 14 23:59:16 <summatusmentis> heh
Jun 14 23:59:59 <singmajesty> Ah, so would sshfs open up the device as a directory in nautilus or another file browser?
Jun 15 00:00:35 <summatusmentis> yeah, after you setup FUSE
Jun 15 00:00:51 <summatusmentis> which is what "translates" an ssh connection to act like a file system
Jun 15 00:01:01 <singmajesty> sudo apt-get install fuse?
Jun 15 00:01:46 <summatusmentis> not sure what the package name is
Jun 15 00:03:15 <singmajesty> PDK development has been more fun since I switched to Linux as my host operating system
Jun 15 00:03:39 <summatusmentis> you could try sudo apt-get install sshfs, and see if that gets you what you need
Jun 15 00:03:56 <singmajesty> I would love to learn what tools there are in addition to the Palm tools, gdb, vi and ssh for making development easier
Jun 15 00:04:56 <singmajesty> Ah, I see. sshfs is based on FUSE
Jun 15 00:05:21 <summatusmentis> yes
Jun 15 00:05:25 <singmajesty> So it looks like you install sshfs, then use it to mount the SSH connection to a mount point on your system. That's very cool
Jun 15 00:05:48 <singmajesty> I'll have to check that out. I just booted Windows for the first time in months to finish up some Enyo/haXe code completion stuff I'm working on
Jun 15 00:05:53 <summatusmentis> it is, I used to use it, but I'd pick up my phone and walk out of the house, and it'd mess up my connection
Jun 15 00:06:19 <singmajesty> I just needed to switch to FlashDevelop to speed up some of this file creation. I think Enyo has 160+ "classes"
Jun 15 00:06:32 <singmajesty> Ah, I see
Jun 15 00:06:57 <singmajesty> So novaterm is probably still ideal for a quick connection, but sshfs would especially be ideal if you had a dedicated developer device
Jun 15 00:07:13 <summatusmentis> or if you make sure to unmount it before you leave :)
Jun 15 00:07:42 <singmajesty> Yeah, I guess it's the same thing you would do with USB mode
Jun 15 00:08:09 <summatusmentis> right
Jun 15 00:08:20 <summatusmentis> except that USB mode doesn't get you access to the root filesystem on the device
Jun 15 00:08:49 <singmajesty> Right :)
Jun 15 00:11:09 <singmajesty> It has been fun to approach webOS as an open platform. I guess that's always been the perspective of webOS internals, and I've always felt that webOS was "open," but never strayed too far away from Mojo or the standard PDK
Jun 15 00:11:55 <singmajesty> It's been a cool experience playing with HTML + Javascript applications without a framework, or making a multi-pack IPK using a shell script
Jun 15 00:12:30 <singmajesty> Which almost worked, except /bin/sh isn't available in the virtual filesystem the OS creates for applications, so it worked from the command line with the jailer, but not from Luna
Jun 15 00:12:59 <singmajesty> I still was able to do it using a simple C application which checks the device uname than executes the right application
Jun 15 00:13:34 <singmajesty> The whole Mojo + Enyo thing should be clarified soon
Jun 15 00:14:39 <rwhitby> singmajesty: you should take a look at the Hello! app I've written
Jun 15 00:15:06 <singmajesty> I think I saw it over someone's shoulder at the webOS workshop last week
Jun 15 00:15:26 <singmajesty> I got to meet the webOS internals guys there. I wish I could remember their names, though
Jun 15 00:15:50 <singmajesty> (Well, I know it isn't all the webosinternals crew, of course. Didn't mean to sound otherwise)
Jun 15 00:17:08 <rwhitby> Tom and Jauder
Jun 15 00:18:14 <singmajesty> Which one works with the servers, and which one works on the warthog kernel?
Jun 15 00:25:34 <singmajesty> Oh, cool. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WhoIsWho
Jun 15 00:25:45 <oil> lol
Jun 15 00:27:11 <haeffb> I blame oil
Jun 15 00:27:17 <oil> :/
Jun 15 00:27:22 * haeffb about to do this up... http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/rum-glazed-grilled-shrimp/Detail.aspx
Jun 15 00:33:23 <halfhalo> silly devs... devices are for tools!
Jun 15 00:36:11 <halfhalo> *lead balloon*
Jun 15 00:48:24 <summatusmentis> so, this whole beats audio thing is starting to irritate me, is HP really requiring we use beats audio headphones?
Jun 15 00:48:38 <oil> its not required
Jun 15 00:49:14 <summatusmentis> well, required is strong
Jun 15 00:49:38 <summatusmentis> but it's not going to be beneficial without them
Jun 15 00:49:41 <summatusmentis> right?
Jun 15 00:50:22 <singmajesty> Advertising that the TouchPad has Beats Audio I think is more than a special gimmick
Jun 15 00:50:41 <singmajesty> It's more like saying that it has a Sound Blaster than it is to say that it has "bass boost" or something
Jun 15 00:50:58 <oil> lol
Jun 15 00:51:09 <summatusmentis> singmajesty: I don't know what any of that means
Jun 15 00:51:23 <singmajesty> Sorry :)
Jun 15 00:51:33 <singmajesty> Sound Blaster = audio card
Jun 15 00:51:39 <summatusmentis> by Createive right?
Jun 15 00:51:42 <singmajesty> bass boost = software gimmick
Jun 15 00:51:43 <summatusmentis> Creative*
Jun 15 00:51:46 <summatusmentis> ah
Jun 15 00:51:51 <singmajesty> So Beats Audio = audio hardware
Jun 15 00:51:57 <singmajesty> != software gimmick
Jun 15 00:51:59 <summatusmentis> well, but it's also specific to it's own stuff
Jun 15 00:52:09 <singmajesty> So you should hear better audio on the device speakers or with any audio device
Jun 15 00:52:14 <summatusmentis> the headphones are required to reap the benefits, right?
Jun 15 00:52:30 <singmajesty> ...but I would assume that using the Beats Audio headphones may give you one of the best experiences with it
Jun 15 00:52:39 <summatusmentis> hrm
Jun 15 00:52:53 <singmajesty> I think it sounds pretty good
Jun 15 00:53:02 <summatusmentis> do you use it?
Jun 15 00:53:14 <summatusmentis> "There are six versions of the headphones and six versions of the earphones, which are manufactured and distributed under exclusive license by Monster Cable Products."
Jun 15 00:53:17 <summatusmentis> gross
Jun 15 00:53:19 <singmajesty> I know some developers who specifically said that the audio stood out as high quality to them
Jun 15 00:53:42 <singmajesty> I've listened to music and watched videos on a TouchPad, but haven't tried it with Beats Audio headphones
Jun 15 00:54:27 <summatusmentis> hrm, it just feels, at least partially, gimmicky
Jun 15 00:54:36 <summatusmentis> the audio hardware thing is neat
Jun 15 00:54:44 <summatusmentis> but it seems like they're pushing the headphones
Jun 15 00:57:12 <singmajesty> If Dr. Dre says its good, it's got to be good ;)
Jun 15 00:57:28 <summatusmentis> uh huh, right :)
Jun 15 00:57:57 <Loudergood> or he's broke ;)
Jun 15 00:58:06 <summatusmentis> somehow I find that more likely :)
Jun 15 00:58:22 <summatusmentis> don't get me wrong, I'm all about good audio hardware
Jun 15 00:58:42 <summatusmentis> I just don't want it to be completely dependent on external things that I have to spend more money
Jun 15 00:58:47 <Loudergood> of course we could just ask sugardav1
Jun 15 00:59:00 <summatusmentis> I'm sure he can't talk about it
Jun 15 00:59:14 <summatusmentis> sugardav1: although, if you can, by all means :)
Jun 15 00:59:37 <haeffb> who is this sugardav1 ?
Jun 15 01:00:04 <summatusmentis> no one knows
Jun 15 01:00:06 <twbbas> In every advertisement for the TouchPad where they mention the Beats audio, they say something like "And the TouchPad has Beats audio which gives amazing sound when paired with a Beats audio headset"
Jun 15 01:00:15 <twbbas> So, they're really making it out that Beats headphones are required
Jun 15 01:00:24 <summatusmentis> right
Jun 15 01:00:35 <summatusmentis> now, I suppose that could just be contractual
Jun 15 01:00:39 <singmajesty> Well, imagine your computer has a great video card
Jun 15 01:00:55 <singmajesty> You might say that it has an amazing picture when paired with a good TV
Jun 15 01:01:12 <singmajesty> If you're selling the PS3, I'm sure you'll say "when paired with a Sony Bravia 3D TV"
Jun 15 01:01:36 <summatusmentis> but that's different than saying "your nvidia card has amazing picture when paired with an nvidia monitor"
Jun 15 01:02:02 <singmajesty> Audio is a bit subjective
Jun 15 01:02:27 <singmajesty> We have specs like 1080p for video, but not audio
Jun 15 01:02:30 <summatusmentis> everything is a bit subjective :)
Jun 15 01:03:25 <Loudergood> to be judged by a wad of meat
Jun 15 01:05:43 <singmajesty> Beats Audio headphones are probably good headphones
Jun 15 01:05:58 <halfhalo> overpriced though
Jun 15 01:06:15 <singmajesty> You probably will also have a good experience if you used a pair of AKG or Sennhauser headphones
Jun 15 01:06:24 <singmajesty> (Maybe better ;)
Jun 15 01:06:32 * halfhalo hearts his shure
Jun 15 01:06:37 <summatusmentis> I like my koss porta-pros a lot
Jun 15 01:06:57 <summatusmentis> and they're $30, not $120
Jun 15 01:07:12 <singmajesty> Are those the kind that work like ear plugs?
Jun 15 01:07:49 * halfhalo may have spent a liiiiiitle more than 120 on his shures
Jun 15 01:09:16 <singmajesty> I didn't realize that Shure made headphones. I do like the microphone I have
Jun 15 01:10:16 <summatusmentis> singmajesty: http://www.amazon.com/Koss-PortaPro-Headphones-with-Case/dp/B00001P4ZH/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308100128&sr=8-1
Jun 15 01:10:22 <halfhalo> yup.  I have worked my way up their product line, going from the basic model to my fancy smanchy pair i have now
Jun 15 01:12:37 <singmajesty> I have a pair of K141's. Pretty nice http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,254,pid,254,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html
Jun 15 01:14:43 <summatusmentis> yeeeah, I don't have the cash to buy nice headphones
Jun 15 01:15:22 <singmajesty> I once saw a pair of headphones that cost $10,000
Jun 15 01:15:36 <Loudergood> yeah, I'll admit I can't hear the difference with the sennheiser earbuds I bought, but they're a damn sight more comfortable than the cheap ones
Jun 15 01:16:26 <summatusmentis> Loudergood: I noticed a difference with sennheiser earbuds
Jun 15 01:16:37 <summatusmentis> but sennheisers are generally pretty good
Jun 15 01:16:41 <summatusmentis> they also had magnets on them :)
Jun 15 01:16:49 <Loudergood> I'll be perfectly honest and say that my ears aren't the greatest either
Jun 15 01:16:55 <singmajesty> Hey, I have some headphones with magnets
Jun 15 01:17:12 <Loudergood> I'm perfectly happy using 12 year old stereo speakers with my desktop
Jun 15 01:17:13 <singmajesty> You sure the Sennheiser earbuds outperform the ones that came with my Pre?
Jun 15 01:17:25 <Loudergood> in comfort they do
Jun 15 01:17:38 <summatusmentis> singmajesty: I never got a pair with my pre, but I bought my pre on ebay
Jun 15 01:17:38 <Loudergood> those palm ones hated my ears
Jun 15 01:17:57 <singmajesty> I have some Bose speakers at my desk, which have been pretty good to me
Jun 15 01:18:12 <singmajesty> I wouldn't mind upgrading to something with more bass, but I like how clean it sounds
Jun 15 01:18:27 <singmajesty> Many desktop speakers feel muddy and too bassy
Jun 15 01:19:07 <summatusmentis> I need a good desktop sound system
Jun 15 01:19:30 <halfhalo> I have the bose desktop 2 speaker setup.  overpriced as all, but nice
Jun 15 01:21:16 <singmajesty> Yep, that's the one
Jun 15 01:21:22 <singmajesty> $100
Jun 15 01:22:00 <singmajesty> In the back of my mind, I've figured that I might upgrade to the $250 one with a subwoofer, but I've had other things going on
Jun 15 01:22:29 <singmajesty> Actually, I splurged and got a PS3 recently, and that's been fun -- Uncharted and Portal
Jun 15 01:22:42 <summatusmentis> bah, video games
Jun 15 01:26:44 <singmajesty> Is anyone interested in Enyo code completion?
Jun 15 01:27:16 <Loudergood> I think that would be very popular
Jun 15 01:28:31 <singmajesty> The only thing I am not sure of is how people feel about class structures
Jun 15 01:29:07 <singmajesty> The road I'm going down adds some additional structure to Javascript, so you get completion, inline documentation and compile time error checking, but it does require a split-second compile, and does rely on class structures
Jun 15 01:29:28 <singmajesty> I think I've heard of other approaches to code completion which allow you to write Javascript as-is, but I'm not sure what that would be
Jun 15 01:29:51 <singmajesty> (and just me, personally, I prefer the more formal structure)
Jun 15 01:30:06 <summatusmentis> oh, completion, I read that as compilation, and was really confused
Jun 15 01:32:56 <singmajesty> Hah, that would be popular
Jun 15 01:33:05 <singmajesty> Tell it what you want to make, and it will compile the code for you
Jun 15 01:44:33 <haeffb> for (var i = 0; i < 100; i++) {writeOnChalkboard("I will not write code while drinking"); }
Jun 15 01:45:36 <Tommy> THIS is what i'm talking about
Jun 15 01:45:36 <Tommy> http://pocketnow.com/webos/will-hp-release-an-nfc-equipped-webos-smartphone-this-year
Jun 15 01:45:39 <Tommy> :D :D :D
Jun 15 01:46:13 <summatusmentis> I don't understand why NFC is exciting
Jun 15 01:46:54 <summatusmentis> is it passive like RFID?
Jun 15 01:46:54 <Tommy> summatusmentis: it's not about the NFC, it's about a phone with webOS that doesn't suck.
Jun 15 01:47:09 <Tommy> i don't care about the NFC itself
Jun 15 01:47:11 <summatusmentis> and nfc makes a phone not suck?
Jun 15 01:47:39 <Tommy> look at the phone in the diagram, i'd rather have that than any pre or pixi joke :\
Jun 15 01:47:58 <Tommy> 3.2" HVGA screen... yay, i'm excited.
Jun 15 01:48:02 <Tommy> :|
Jun 15 01:48:07 <summatusmentis> that's a diagram
Jun 15 01:48:17 <Tommy> yeah, i'm pretty sure they'd base it on their device
Jun 15 01:48:52 <Tommy> (i was thinking the diagram came from HP, if it doesn't, color me sadfaced)
Jun 15 01:49:04 <summatusmentis> oh, I see
Jun 15 01:49:12 <summatusmentis> yeah, I don't see any indication that that's an HP diagram
Jun 15 01:49:20 <Tommy> i realize now, looking over it, that i assumed that like a moron
Jun 15 01:49:30 <Tommy> i'm just so desperate for a better webOS phone ;_;
Jun 15 01:49:39 <summatusmentis> and the original Bloomberg source doesn't have an image
Jun 15 01:49:44 <Tommy> dammit
Jun 15 01:49:49 <summatusmentis> no, not a moron, I was just not sure what you were talking about
Jun 15 01:49:53 <Tommy> my current phone has NFC, so that wouldn't really be an upgrade
Jun 15 01:50:06 <Tommy> i just wouldn't mind toying with a webOS phone that impressed me
Jun 15 01:54:10 <haeffb> so, phones that don't suck === phones without a keyboard?
Jun 15 01:54:31 <rwhitby> of course HP is going to say it is "working on adding NFC capabilities to its upcoming webOS hardware" - that's corporate speak for "we don't have it in any plans, but will tell you we do so we don't look like we're out of the competition"
Jun 15 01:55:06 <Tommy> haeffb: phones with a screen that's bigger than 3.2" and preferably have better than HVGA resolution
Jun 15 01:55:12 <Tommy> as soon as you tell me 3.2" and HVGA, the phone sucks.
Jun 15 01:55:32 <haeffb> then the Pre3 doesn't suck?
Jun 15 01:55:37 <Tommy> rwhitby: agreed
Jun 15 01:55:38 <haeffb> but the Veer does.
Jun 15 01:55:48 <Tommy> haeffb: it's WVGA, so it's finally catching up with last year's hardware :)
Jun 15 01:56:03 <Tommy> it doesn't *suck*, but 1ghz, 512mb ram, WVGA... well, that's a nexus one with a 3.2" screen, isn't it?
Jun 15 01:56:17 <Tommy> oh i'm sorry, 1.4ghz, overclocked hummingbird i thought
Jun 15 01:56:18 <haeffb> and a decent OS
Jun 15 01:56:25 <Tommy> well, we can debate that all day
Jun 15 01:56:28 <Tommy> i'm not going to bother
Jun 15 01:56:52 <Tommy> i'm talking strictly hardware, and the pre-/pre+/pre2's hardware is quite lacking compared to what other manufacturers offer
Jun 15 01:58:53 <Tommy> but we've had this discussion before, i don't care to talk about it much, it shouldn't concern you that i was pleased to think HP was making a phone that wasn't a pre, a smaller pre, or a pre with a fixed keyboard
Jun 15 02:02:09 * oil remembers when #webos was about webos development
Jun 15 02:02:26 <halfhalo> oh, the good old days...
Jun 15 02:02:36 <oil> and whenever tommy isn't talking
Jun 15 02:02:54 <halfhalo> yup
Jun 15 02:03:01 <Tommy> oil: i linked the possibility of HP using NFC in a webOS handset
Jun 15 02:03:06 <Tommy> shouldn't be considered offtopic in #webos
Jun 15 02:03:17 <oil> #webos is not general webos chat
Jun 15 02:03:22 <Tommy> oh?
Jun 15 02:03:30 * Tommy wonders why it isn't #webos-dev
Jun 15 02:03:40 <oil> because?
Jun 15 02:04:26 <Tommy> okay.
Jun 15 02:04:46 <halfhalo> we are weird like that
Jun 15 02:05:06 <singmajesty> I like the Pre 3, but I like the Veer better
Jun 15 02:05:10 <Tommy> lol, true story
Jun 15 02:05:11 <singmajesty> (strange as it sounds)
Jun 15 02:05:21 <Tommy> singmajesty: i just hate the keyboard :\
Jun 15 02:05:30 <halfhalo> singmajesty: the veer is amazingness
Jun 15 02:05:33 <Tommy> am i alone in that? does anyone else not love their keyboard
Jun 15 02:09:08 <rwhitby> perhaps we need a #smartphone-advocacy channel to point folks to ...
Jun 15 02:10:43 <Loudergood> nah, we just need someone to release ares for hardware, so you can click and drag and build your own phone.
Jun 15 02:11:07 <rwhitby> in general I rarely care about what others think of a thing as personal as a smartphone. their goals and criteria almost never line up well with mine.
Jun 15 02:11:56 <Loudergood> very true
Jun 15 02:12:29 <rwhitby> I also don't care how many apps are in any particular app catalog - I only care if the catalog has the apps I need to achieve my goals.
Jun 15 02:12:58 <Tommy> rwhitby: i'm just curious if people forgive the hardware for the OS or love the hardware
Jun 15 02:14:21 <rwhitby> Pre 2 is nice hardware.  When you have a laptop with a 15" screen in front of you all day, you don't need a big screen on a phone. The same becomes more generally applicable when tablets come into the mix for when you're around the house.
Jun 15 02:14:32 <summatusmentis> Tommy: personally, I see nothing wrong with the hardware, it performs it's functionality well. I really like the keyboard.
Jun 15 02:14:42 <summatusmentis> that said, webOS is the compelling thing, for me
Jun 15 02:14:52 <summatusmentis> I also like the vertical form factor
Jun 15 02:15:01 <Tommy> summatusmentis: thanks, that's the only answer i was lookin for :P
Jun 15 02:15:31 <Loudergood> haha, I also like the rubberized texture, it's great on my thinkpad so it was nice to find it on a phone
Jun 15 02:15:35 <singmajesty> There are at least three factors: hardware, OS and (if applicable) wireless carrier
Jun 15 02:15:47 <Tommy> rwhitby: every now and again i leave my house, i don't like the newer phones with the 4.3-4.5 inch form factors, but 4 seems to be a happy place for me
Jun 15 02:16:23 <singmajesty> Recently, I had to decide to switch carriers because I wanted to use a Pre 2 or Veer
Jun 15 02:16:24 <Tommy> 3.2 just seems so small, especially with the low res... doesn't fit much on the screen as far as web pages go
Jun 15 02:16:34 <rwhitby> sure but when I leave my house and office and commute I prefer to interact with people rather than a phone screen :)
Jun 15 02:16:38 <Tommy> singmajesty: swap a sprint radio into a pre 2 :D
Jun 15 02:16:41 <summatusmentis> singmajesty: carrier is a big part of my decision too
Jun 15 02:16:56 <singmajesty> Tommy: I thought about it, but it is a corporate device
Jun 15 02:17:01 <Tommy> rwhitby: many times, believe it or not, i interact with people through my phone :o
Jun 15 02:17:04 <Tommy> singmajesty: ah, understood.
Jun 15 02:17:06 <rwhitby> ah yes, you guys have that whole carrier lock in thing happening to impact your decisions
Jun 15 02:17:24 <rwhitby> Tommy: funny how the screen size doesn't change the audio quality when you do that ;)
Jun 15 02:17:29 * Tommy is on a no contract plan, *shrug*
Jun 15 02:17:29 <singmajesty> Tommy: I had been using a Pre Plus with webOS 2.1, though ;)
Jun 15 02:17:45 <Tommy> rwhitby: it changes the amount of lines you can see on IRC :P
Jun 15 02:18:02 <rwhitby> irc on a phone of any size is just masochism
Jun 15 02:18:05 <singmajesty> I know it is probably strange, but the Veer is my most favorite phone, ever
Jun 15 02:18:09 <Tommy> i also spend an hour and a half every day on the train, where i get no signal...
Jun 15 02:18:20 <Tommy> so sometimes i like to read a book, or the news, or play a game
Jun 15 02:18:25 <rwhitby> irc on a phone with a software keyboard is even worse than masochism
Jun 15 02:18:34 <singmajesty> hah
Jun 15 02:18:41 <Tommy> and when it's raining outside, Metro/AM New York aren't there
Jun 15 02:18:42 <rwhitby> Tommy: right, and that's where tablets will come in.
Jun 15 02:18:51 <Tommy> rwhitby: i don't want to carry a damn tablet
Jun 15 02:19:07 <rwhitby> then you need a large phone. others have a different set of priorities.
Jun 15 02:19:08 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: the carrier lock-in thing is a bigger deal when only certain carriers have significantly better coverage where I need it
Jun 15 02:19:15 <Tommy> when tablets can replace my textbooks, i'll buy one (only ipad/2 has support for inkling)
Jun 15 02:19:36 <Tommy> rwhitby: right, i never said you needed a huge phone, but HVGA is the inexcusable part on any modern hardware
Jun 15 02:19:58 <Tommy> 3.2" WVGA isn't terrible hardware, i've never claimed the pre 3 was terrible, i said the pre-/pre+/pre2 were subpar
Jun 15 02:20:17 <rwhitby> 'par' is a subjective term
Jun 15 02:20:19 <Tommy> hell, 3.2" WVGA, the dpi's gotta be close to iphone 4
Jun 15 02:20:27 <Tommy> rwhitby: is subjectivity a bad thing?
Jun 15 02:20:32 <Tommy> this is IRC, welcome to my opinion
Jun 15 02:20:34 <rwhitby> the majority of phone users don't even use a smartphone.
Jun 15 02:20:45 <Tommy> rwhitby: 54% of phones sold in Q1 2011 were smartphones.
Jun 15 02:20:59 <rwhitby> correct. those two statements are not in conflict.
Jun 15 02:21:04 <Tommy> also correct.
Jun 15 02:21:11 <Tommy> the majority of phone users don't know what IRC is
Jun 15 02:21:30 <rwhitby> the majority of the population is of below average intelligence
Jun 15 02:21:34 <Tommy> when anyone in here is part of the majority, i'll stop talking for the minority
Jun 15 02:21:36 <haeffb> Pre3 is a 3.6" screen...
Jun 15 02:21:43 <Tommy> rwhitby: think about what you just said for a moment.
Jun 15 02:21:47 <Tommy> haeffb: oh is it? :o
Jun 15 02:22:03 <rwhitby> Tommy: yep, more than 50% of the population is of below average intelligence
Jun 15 02:22:07 <Tommy> then, yeah, that's a good and bad i guess. bigger, yay, but lower dpi, d'aww
Jun 15 02:22:21 <Tommy> rwhitby: okay
Jun 15 02:22:48 <Tommy> i'm not sure that's true, but okay.
Jun 15 02:23:17 <Tommy> i know my IQ is well above average, so i tend to not concern myself with the intelligence of others... i can tell you people are fucking dumb without using a statistic
Jun 15 02:23:18 <rwhitby> the growth area in the market for smartphones is mainly in those folks who are in the less than 50% range.
Jun 15 02:23:35 <Tommy> uh huh
Jun 15 02:23:49 <rwhitby> the folks who already have smartphones and are changing their smartphone each 6 months are not the growth area
Jun 15 02:23:57 <rwhitby> the people moving up from dumb phones is the growth area
Jun 15 02:24:02 <Tommy> i know this
Jun 15 02:24:36 <Tommy> and that's my point, "the majority of phone users don't have smartphones" is only true because there was a time when the only phones around were feature phones
Jun 15 02:24:53 <Tommy> if you were to wipe the slate clean, the majority of people would buy smartphones now
Jun 15 02:25:17 <rwhitby> yep, and they would not be the same people who look at smartphone specs as some sort of reproductive organ size comparison
Jun 15 02:26:32 <Tommy> haha, wow
Jun 15 02:26:42 <Tommy> pull your skirt down, your ignorance is showing
Jun 15 02:26:48 <Loudergood> I just hope we can get to a "bits are bits" future with the carriers
Jun 15 02:27:07 <rwhitby> Loudergood: US carriers will never allow the US government to allow that to happen
Jun 15 02:27:16 <Loudergood> exactly
Jun 15 02:27:22 <rwhitby> Tommy: heh, nice being the first to resort to name calling.
Jun 15 02:27:52 <Tommy> uh huh...
Jun 15 02:28:03 <Tommy> someone called someone else ignorant on IRC, oh my god
Jun 15 02:28:09 <Tommy> i'm calling the internet police
Jun 15 02:28:42 <rwhitby> sorry, I thought we were having a rational discussion about smartphone market analysis
Jun 15 02:29:34 <haeffb> The Matrix on AMC
Jun 15 02:29:50 <rwhitby> haeffb: sure you're not already in it?
Jun 15 02:29:55 <Loudergood> AMC jumped the shark a long time ago
Jun 15 02:30:23 <haeffb> rwhitby: how could I be sure?
Jun 15 02:30:54 <haeffb> you could all be figments of my imagination.
Jun 15 02:31:00 <haeffb> except Tommy...
Jun 15 02:31:14 <haeffb> yep, I'm sure
Jun 15 02:33:06 <Tommy> rwhitby: oh, you thought that when you compared phone sizes to genitalia?
Jun 15 02:33:11 <Tommy> that's when you thought it was a rational discussion?
Jun 15 02:33:24 <Tommy> and me calling you ignorant, THAT'S what made it turn sour from a rational, logical debate. i see.
Jun 15 02:33:36 <rwhitby> yep, that's the attitude of many people who report on the smartphone market
Jun 15 02:33:54 <Tommy> okay.
Jun 15 02:33:59 <rwhitby> most tech blogs for example
Jun 15 02:34:05 <Tommy> so you were being rational about our genitals until i ruined it by calling you ignorant
Jun 15 02:34:10 <Tommy> i'm sorry for ruining the conversation
Jun 15 02:34:18 <Tommy> continue with your genitals, i'll exit the conversation.
Jun 15 02:34:21 <rwhitby> apology accepted
Jun 15 02:35:06 <rwhitby> interesting that you assumed that comment was directed at you though ...
Jun 15 02:35:58 <rwhitby> I was talking about other folks who have that attitude. You obviously do not, since you're in a webOS channel ;)
Jun 15 02:36:09 <Tommy> who else was complaining about your small phone, besides your wife
Jun 15 02:36:21 <rwhitby> there you go again, nice.
Jun 15 02:37:17 <Tommy> it's funny, the insecurity i've seen since being here...
Jun 15 02:37:33 <rwhitby> so few people on the internet are able to have discussions about subjects without taking it personal
Jun 15 02:37:43 <Tommy> anything that's not webOS sucks, android sucks, it's unfinished, it's ugly, it's terrible, yet it has 25x the marketshare of webOS
Jun 15 02:38:37 <summatusmentis> it also had a lot more backing
Jun 15 02:38:40 <Loudergood> the windows of the smartphone world ;)
Jun 15 02:38:49 <summatusmentis> and was much more accessible for manufacturers
Jun 15 02:39:02 <Tommy> summatusmentis: webOS had a major corporation putting its entire livelihood into it and it couldn't sell.
Jun 15 02:39:15 <Tommy> Loudergood: symbian = the windows of the smartphone world
Jun 15 02:39:19 <haeffb> "major"
Jun 15 02:39:24 <Tommy> windows didn't catch on overnight like android did
Jun 15 02:39:25 <dwc-> palm was a "major" corporation?
Jun 15 02:39:32 <haeffb> compare: Google, Palm
Jun 15 02:39:40 <rwhitby> *huge* corporation, that Palm was.
Jun 15 02:39:45 <Tommy> haeffb: i didn't say one of the top 5 corporations in the country, did i?
Jun 15 02:40:09 <summatusmentis> Tommy: a major corporation who had been losing a lot of mindshare
Jun 15 02:40:19 <Tommy> yeah, because they'd failed to come out with anything worthwhile
Jun 15 02:40:32 <Tommy> motorola was in a comparable position to palm financially, there were talks of selling their mobile division
Jun 15 02:40:43 <summatusmentis> yeah, and they jumped on board with Google
Jun 15 02:40:52 <Tommy> they bet on android, put out one great phone, and even with competition from other manufacturers they kicked ass
Jun 15 02:40:53 <summatusmentis> and now we are where we are
Jun 15 02:40:56 <Loudergood> I think it was Verizon that was the key player there
Jun 15 02:41:07 <summatusmentis> I would agree Verizon played a big part
Jun 15 02:41:07 <Tommy> Loudergood: a big part, without a doubt, still not sure why palm released on sprint
Jun 15 02:41:13 * Tommy high fives summatusmentis 
Jun 15 02:41:26 <rwhitby> um, I was working for Motorola at that time, and I can tell you that the financial situation of Motorola did not compare with that of Palm. only about two orders of magnitude difference.
Jun 15 02:41:34 <Tommy> but i wouldn't say verizon is the reason webOS has <2% marketshare
Jun 15 02:41:44 <Tommy> rwhitby: oh, did you work for palm too?
Jun 15 02:41:58 <summatusmentis> I don't think anyone would, only that verizon is a significant force behind android
Jun 15 02:42:01 <Tommy> or are you pulling figures from your ass when it comes to palm's side of things
Jun 15 02:42:01 <rwhitby> nope, but Palm's financial situation was very publicly reported
Jun 15 02:42:22 <rwhitby> since they had filings when purchased which detailed them
Jun 15 02:42:54 <Tommy> and i assume you've read those
Jun 15 02:43:01 <rwhitby> indeed I have.
Jun 15 02:43:03 <Tommy> lol
Jun 15 02:43:27 <Tommy> Revenue:	1,071,000,000
Jun 15 02:43:36 <Tommy> a billion dollar minor corporation i guess
Jun 15 02:43:57 <Tommy> in their worst of worse they hit 10 figures
Jun 15 02:44:14 <dwc-> revenue alone is a terrible measurement of financial health
Jun 15 02:44:38 <Tommy> dwc-: i'm not saying they were healthy, you missed the conversation
Jun 15 02:44:53 <Tommy> i said webOS had a major corporation risking its livelihood on it, and someone said "lolz palm wudnt major u kidding me?"
Jun 15 02:45:04 <Tommy> and they claimed because palm wasn't close to google, it wasn't a major corporation
Jun 15 02:45:30 <summatusmentis> no one said that
Jun 15 02:45:33 <Tommy> no?
Jun 15 02:45:37 <summatusmentis> just that google had a lot more clout
Jun 15 02:45:47 <summatusmentis> and that palm was struggling
Jun 15 02:45:51 <Tommy> <haeffb> "major"
Jun 15 02:45:51 <Tommy> <Tommy> windows didn't catch on overnight like android did
Jun 15 02:45:51 <Tommy> <dwc-> palm was a "major" corporation?
Jun 15 02:45:51 <Tommy> <haeffb> compare: Google, Palm
Jun 15 02:46:06 <Tommy> summatusmentis: as he says... "major", "compare: Google, Palm"
Jun 15 02:46:08 <Loudergood> sure, it's like chrysler and GM
Jun 15 02:46:22 <Tommy> if that's not insinuating that palm isn't major because it's not google, i don't know how i could say it any more clearly
Jun 15 02:47:16 <Tommy> Loudergood: exactly, and if chrysler risked their livelihood on a single product would you consider them a major corporation?
Jun 15 02:47:30 <haeffb> comparing the backing behind Android and webOS
Jun 15 02:47:43 <summatusmentis> those are two separate people
Jun 15 02:48:00 <Tommy> haeffb: google doesn't even advertise android, leaves that up to the manufacturers/carriers
Jun 15 02:48:08 <Tommy> summatusmentis: no, they're not. look at haeffb's 2 comments
Jun 15 02:49:04 <Tommy> i want webOS to go OSS
Jun 15 02:49:08 <Tommy> that'd be sick
Jun 15 02:49:27 <rwhitby> Tommy: one thing we can agree on
Jun 15 02:49:44 <Tommy> rwhitby: yeah, but you know what'd happen to HP's marketshare the day that happened
Jun 15 02:49:48 <summatusmentis> I should be working :(
Jun 15 02:49:48 <Tommy> it'd go from 1.7% to 0%
Jun 15 02:50:16 <rwhitby> yep, the other definition of sick
Jun 15 02:50:31 <summatusmentis> hah, that was clever, I appreciated that
Jun 15 02:51:20 <summatusmentis> who wants to write C code for me?
Jun 15 02:51:38 * Tommy raises hand
Jun 15 02:52:01 <summatusmentis> what do you know about distributed filesystems?
Jun 15 02:52:21 <Tommy> ...that they're probably spread out.
Jun 15 02:52:40 * summatusmentis slow claps :-P
Jun 15 02:52:57 <rwhitby> summatusmentis: nfs-style or sshfs-style or something exotic?
Jun 15 02:53:09 <Tommy> i'm premed, i know shit about filesystems
Jun 15 02:53:11 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: afs, specifically OpenAFS
Jun 15 02:53:21 <Tommy> i know more about the anatomy of the hand :\
Jun 15 02:53:24 <summatusmentis> so... "something exotic"
Jun 15 02:53:29 <rwhitby> summatusmentis: nope, never looked at the protocol level of that.
Jun 15 02:53:49 <summatusmentis> it's old
Jun 15 02:54:10 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: how involed were you w/ OpenMoko?
Jun 15 02:54:12 <rwhitby> yeah, you must be at a uni that is still using it?
Jun 15 02:54:15 <summatusmentis> involved*
Jun 15 02:54:32 <Tommy> lol, speaking of terrible hardware
Jun 15 02:54:38 <Tommy> openmoko, forgot it existed :P
Jun 15 02:54:58 <summatusmentis> Tommy: indeed, and it was their downfall
Jun 15 02:55:09 <rwhitby> summatusmentis: had some phones, did a build system, did some hardware mods. expected it to fail from the start but had fun anyway.
Jun 15 02:55:16 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: no, I sort of fell into their dev community in GSoC 2008
Jun 15 02:55:20 <Tommy> summatusmentis: kettle, meet pot. that's exactly what i'm saying about palm
Jun 15 02:56:09 <Tommy> if you put webOS on a phone that people would buy with android, they'd buy it with webOS all the same, it's a great OS
Jun 15 02:56:31 <Tommy> but even if the Pre ran android, nobody would buy it
Jun 15 02:57:11 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: yeah, so around the time of the Freerunner, I was applying to GSoC, both with OpenMoko, and on a fluke, OPenAFS
Jun 15 02:57:24 <Tommy> http://gizmodo.com/5811877/happy-hot-dog-man-mutates-your-hot-dog-into-a-little-human
Jun 15 02:58:04 <summatusmentis> the openmoko hardware had a lot of issues, iirc
Jun 15 02:58:25 <summatusmentis> not that the original pre- didn't, but I feel like openmoko's was worse
Jun 15 02:59:02 <Tommy> yeah i'd agree with that, felt like an alpha build
Jun 15 02:59:26 <summatusmentis> I was a high school student, and too poor to buy it
Jun 15 02:59:50 <summatusmentis> rwhitby: I'd never heard of afs before I started working with them
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 15 02:59:57 2011