**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 12 02:59:57 2011 Oct 12 02:59:59 many people buy Macs to do dev work with, and you can't do that on a locked-down system Oct 12 03:00:30 Apple doesnt give a damn about developers Oct 12 03:00:40 Why should they? Oct 12 03:00:46 well they do provide nice APIs Oct 12 03:00:58 and an IDE that (imho) is nicer than VS Oct 12 03:01:03 They make software, but their developers aren't the target audience. They just provide a good platform for devs to target. Oct 12 03:01:13 ya, those APIs and IDE are about 20 years old too Oct 12 03:01:15 First they = developers, second they = Apple Oct 12 03:01:19 NeXTstep. Oct 12 03:01:29 Actually, the IDE was rebuilt recently. Oct 12 03:01:32 Don't know if you knew that or not.. Oct 12 03:01:41 rwatkins: and C is even older, yet the Linux kernel is written in it. Time-tested, proven. Oct 12 03:01:50 Nilium: Obj-C was also recently revised. Oct 12 03:01:58 It's been revised a number of times Oct 12 03:02:06 interestingly, they're putting heavy support behind Ruby these days Oct 12 03:02:09 I quite like Obj-C Oct 12 03:02:15 it's nice, though different. Oct 12 03:02:18 ya, indeed. but the core of what they have dev wise was layed in place a while ago. Oct 12 03:02:35 I have NeXT machines. I have the dev docs for 1.0 Oct 12 03:02:37 rwatkins: That's a pretty good thing when you look at the competitors Oct 12 03:02:43 it's … quite different. similar but yet different Oct 12 03:02:47 Microsoft jumping around between C, C++, C#, and now HTML/JS Oct 12 03:02:55 I have two black NeXT cubs about 8 feet away from me right now. Oct 12 03:03:02 cubes Oct 12 03:03:04 and yet it's standard enough. you can easily use an open-source C++ library in an Obj-C program. Oct 12 03:03:11 not so easy with C#. Oct 12 03:03:29 I don't mind the way webOS does it. Oct 12 03:03:40 ya, that Microsoft they screw over developers left and right abandoning backward compat. not like Apple. Oct 12 03:03:44 ha! Oct 12 03:03:47 still trying to figure out objC Oct 12 03:04:02 rwatkins: Who said anything about backwards compatibility? Oct 12 03:04:02 can you move objC logic into webos Oct 12 03:04:09 torchie: Technically you can. Oct 12 03:04:12 Microsoft jumping around between C, C++, C#, and now HTML/JS Oct 12 03:04:20 and get into the catalog? Oct 12 03:04:23 Probably. Oct 12 03:04:32 You'd have to get an Obj-C runtime shipping with your app and whatnot, though Oct 12 03:04:41 Might work with GNUStep. Oct 12 03:04:48 Nilium: or Cocotron. Oct 12 03:04:55 That too. Oct 12 03:05:00 shall we try and count up the number of computers running GNUstep today? Oct 12 03:05:01 4? Oct 12 03:05:02 5? Oct 12 03:05:12 rwatkins: you don't have to RUN GNUstep Oct 12 03:05:14 Though I'm not sure if Cocotron is actually the runtime or just a Cocoa port, I haven't looked at it much Oct 12 03:05:20 I know software that just uses GNUstep base Oct 12 03:05:26 rwatkins: You'd just have to link to the runtime and provide that Oct 12 03:05:31 And any frameworks Oct 12 03:05:32 then again, I'd probably only write the GUI code in Obj-C Oct 12 03:05:37 the rest would be portable C/C++ Oct 12 03:05:56 Objective-C is realistically an Apple-only language. Oct 12 03:06:13 as is HTML/JS written for Enyo. Oct 12 03:06:14 :p Oct 12 03:06:33 does it sound like I'm complaining? Oct 12 03:06:40 enyo is awesome Oct 12 03:06:51 I don't really care if something is an X-only language, though. Oct 12 03:06:52 good contribution Oct 12 03:06:59 I don't think Enyo is necessarily tied to webOS only, is it? <_< Oct 12 03:07:04 I'll write in whatever gets me the best results on a platform. Oct 12 03:07:08 ser: for now it is Oct 12 03:07:09 The Festival Lite people complained that Festival had to be changed when new C++ compliers came out, and compilers weren't standardized across platforms. Oct 12 03:07:21 ser: it can run on other platforms, but it is not licensed to do so Oct 12 03:07:47 JS to Enyo is a much more future looking, useful skill than Objective-C to iOS Oct 12 03:07:58 the ubuntu chroot is very useful to the developer. Oct 12 03:08:13 I think they're both useful languages to know. Oct 12 03:08:18 I have a full dev environment, including SDK with me where ever I am :) Oct 12 03:08:44 iOS isn't going away any time soon, whereas webOS is currently dead in the water, so it's arguably better to know Obj-C right now. Oct 12 03:08:59 or Enyo + PhoneGap? ;p Oct 12 03:09:04 yep Oct 12 03:09:07 what ser said Oct 12 03:09:12 or you could say that JS, Node, the web model of developemtn is the future and its better. Oct 12 03:09:28 the future of web applications Oct 12 03:09:29 I think "better" is hard to argue objectively Oct 12 03:09:30 Android is available on PCs, (and webOS isn't): http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/hands-on-bluestacks-android-player-brings-mobile-apps-to-windows.ars Oct 12 03:09:34 and that Obj-C to iOS with an inflexible layout system is a dead end. Oct 12 03:09:47 The web model is iffy given what I've seen so far, though I don't disagree that it has a role in the future Oct 12 03:09:52 rwatkins: guess you haven't heard of autolayout Oct 12 03:10:01 its inevitable, its just a matter of when. Oct 12 03:10:06 rwatkins: Layout system? Oct 12 03:10:07 it has a role in the future of web applications Oct 12 03:10:08 yeah. iOS 5. Oct 12 03:10:08 DougReeder: I actually have that :) Oct 12 03:10:32 Was going to mention what balrog did, but yeah, auto layout is pretty damn flexible Oct 12 03:10:34 (and Mac Lion. localizers are already happy about it ;)) Oct 12 03:10:36 *autolayout Oct 12 03:10:46 Nilium: everything is rendered via 3d - its not a flexible model. Oct 12 03:10:59 I .. fail to see where you're coming from with this Oct 12 03:11:15 Sounds like what The Astonishing Tribe is doing for the PlayBook Oct 12 03:11:22 i guess "flexible model" means "runs worse" Oct 12 03:11:22 rwatkins: what about 3D compositing? I wish webOS and Android did that. Oct 12 03:11:30 Android does, to some extent, now Oct 12 03:11:36 yeah, finally. Oct 12 03:11:38 write once, fail everywhere™ Oct 12 03:11:48 well gingerbread is kind of smooth sometimes Oct 12 03:12:07 why is retina exactly 2x? because otherwise layout would be a nightmare Oct 12 03:12:24 or blurry. Oct 12 03:12:34 I would assume mostly because older apps can be perfectly upscaled. Oct 12 03:12:39 vector graphics is time consuming to render. Oct 12 03:12:42 i guess you could say my laptop's display is a retina display Oct 12 03:12:47 they have a couple resolutions because they're pretty screwed for adapting to multiple resolutions. Oct 12 03:12:59 because adapting to multiple resolutions is writing once and failing everywhere Oct 12 03:13:02 just in graphic form Oct 12 03:13:08 because i look at it from 3 feet away, and it's a 1920 x 1200 monitor, and i use a 1170 x 725 resolution Oct 12 03:13:10 rwatkins: How much time have you spent actually working on iOS apps? Oct 12 03:13:13 ya, that web thing kinda failed eh? Oct 12 03:13:18 fxspec06: no that doesn't count Oct 12 03:13:20 so many fart apps to update and then filter through their approval process.. Oct 12 03:13:21 so it's almost retina display, but not quite Oct 12 03:13:35 if you had it set to 1920x1200, but used text scaling etc to make stuff larger -- then yeah. Oct 12 03:13:40 If you are reasonably familiar with the way UIs work in iOS and Mac OS, you'd probably know they're fairly scalable Oct 12 03:14:01 ser: ha, yeah. I don't think they're approving new fart apps Oct 12 03:14:05 iOS APIS are poorly scaleable compared to the alternatives. Oct 12 03:14:09 i don't see the difference. nvidia scaling works just fine for me Oct 12 03:14:14 Well, what're the alternatives? Oct 12 03:14:20 because they're designed around every pixel of the screen on that device Oct 12 03:14:24 the pixels are there Oct 12 03:14:31 all 1920 of my pixels are being used Oct 12 03:14:31 Android? CSS box model? tons. Oct 12 03:14:42 developers know exactly what it's going to look like, how it's going to work Oct 12 03:15:05 From what I've seen, autolayout is fairly similar to what Android does, CSS is kind of strange and difficult to work with at times, etc. Oct 12 03:15:14 fxspec06: ahh. eh well you're still forcing a 1.64:1 pixel ratio Oct 12 03:15:14 rather sculpt stone than tapioca pudding Oct 12 03:15:18 of all the issues that I've had with Android, I don't think I've ever seen an Android app scale improperly on my device. Oct 12 03:15:21 but hey, at least tapioca fits into all sorts of containers Oct 12 03:15:42 oh, right, and 2:1 is the magic number. 2:1 is just infinitely better than 1.64:1 Oct 12 03:15:54 you don't get "fuzziness" Oct 12 03:16:03 Apple, controlling the manufacture of all iOS devices, doesn't really need to care about scaling well to multiple devices Oct 12 03:16:03 though at 3 ft. you probably can't see it Oct 12 03:16:04 I would really encourage you to read up on autolayout in Cocoa, 'cause I think you might be confused about what the current layout system in iOS and Mac OS is Oct 12 03:16:12 I've had a case where an orangepixel game just totally derped on my nook color Oct 12 03:16:39 whereas Android has a billion devices with slightly different resolutions Oct 12 03:16:47 and pixel densities Oct 12 03:16:53 ser: Much to the annoyance of developers, probably Oct 12 03:17:00 probably :) Oct 12 03:17:04 I know it annoyed me, but I don't focus on Android anymore Oct 12 03:17:28 I'm not particularly fond of trying to find new ways to smash my head into the wall Oct 12 03:17:32 decided to not focus on android —  Oct 12 03:17:33 Are there automated test facilities for Android that can check layout under various screen sizes? Oct 12 03:17:38 after getting two android devices already :( Oct 12 03:17:50 DougReeder: Not really. Oct 12 03:18:00 I might be interested in WP7 depending on what Nokia churns out later this month Oct 12 03:18:08 Might be something for Google to invest in, then. Oct 12 03:18:12 You can run the emulator with different screen sizes and that might help, though Oct 12 03:18:25 draw a circle exactly three inches in diameter on every android device in existence Oct 12 03:18:33 However, given the customizations some OEMs do, it's hard to say whether or not emulator testing is going to cut it Oct 12 03:18:53 It certainly won't cut it when testing anything other than layout, obviously. Oct 12 03:19:03 all's well until you get to a 4.5" phone with a wvga screen and a 4.3" with qHD vs a phone with a screen that isn't even 3 inches diagonal Oct 12 03:19:52 phones with 4.3"+ displays make me sad. Oct 12 03:20:10 Phones with screens larger than 3.7" scare the bejeezus out of me. Oct 12 03:20:17 They're bricks. Oct 12 03:20:33 my nexus isn't particularly gigantic Oct 12 03:20:35 I had an Evo and it was huge Oct 12 03:20:38 You drop it and you run the risk of not only damaging your phone but also putting a hole in the floor Oct 12 03:20:41 but above 3.7" is a bit preposterous Oct 12 03:20:46 and then they released bigger and bigger and bigger ones :/ Oct 12 03:20:53 yeah they keep making them bigger Oct 12 03:21:01 and bigger and bigger :/ Oct 12 03:21:07 nexus prime is rumored to be 4.65 or something :P Oct 12 03:21:13 they keep making the screens bigger to make up for the fact that they lack the design chops to cram all the components into a decent sized chassis Oct 12 03:21:27 especially the 4G components Oct 12 03:21:42 one-chip 4G basebands won't be available until Q3 2012 Oct 12 03:21:45 Android right now is basically the competition of hardware specs without actually improving the "user experience" Oct 12 03:21:49 inteesting considering all these phones with bigger screens than the iphone have narrower horizontal resolution in portrait Oct 12 03:22:03 well, the iphone has no removable battery or storage Oct 12 03:22:07 GOOD. Oct 12 03:22:18 a removable battery is amazingly useful Oct 12 03:22:20 ser: Doesn't seem to bother folks much, though Oct 12 03:22:28 it's also a liability Oct 12 03:22:36 external battery pack is better than a removable internal battery Oct 12 03:22:40 increases thickness and case size a lot Oct 12 03:22:57 (which means, smaller batteries!) Oct 12 03:23:11 not really torchie, I could have two fully charged replacement batteries in my pocket vs. one external battery pack and save time swapping the min Oct 12 03:23:20 also I hate rebooting the thing Oct 12 03:23:23 removable internal battery - messes up case and device design, have to turn the device off when switching, futzing around Oct 12 03:23:26 it's really designed to be always on Oct 12 03:23:31 external pack - pop it on Oct 12 03:23:31 done Oct 12 03:24:06 eighthree has a mophie juice pack for his 3gs. it's pretty ghastly. Oct 12 03:24:15 I'm starting to wish the NS' pack was non removable, then everything would be packed together more tightly and maybe the device would be absent of the flimsy back and ghastly creak Oct 12 03:24:19 he definitely envied my ability to just swap :p Oct 12 03:24:34 when I was on my third pre I had two batteries Oct 12 03:24:45 the pre3's removable back is really scary Oct 12 03:25:14 had to use my other pre to charge one, and sitting around rebooting the damn thing and futzing with the battery during a party or something Oct 12 03:25:44 I do like the ability to carry a charged battery with me Oct 12 03:26:01 but I'd prefer the ability to just have my phone last a full day Oct 12 03:26:16 that's also nice Oct 12 03:26:55 or buy a new battery on your own rather than ship your device back to get it replaces, or more likely trash it and upgrade. which was the point. Oct 12 03:26:56 pre-battery powered mintyboost! Oct 12 03:27:27 luckily the NS lasts me all day and I can leave it off-charger at 20% while I sleep with confidence that it'll wake me up in the morning Oct 12 03:27:41 exactly, rwatkins Oct 12 03:29:46 okay dudes here is the question: Oct 12 03:29:56 if you were strapped for cash but needed to hire a percussionist Oct 12 03:30:03 I didn't take the cookie from the cookie jar Oct 12 03:30:06 would you hire, as your sole percussionist, a xylophone player Oct 12 03:30:08 It was ser Oct 12 03:35:05 xylophones? are you making music for children's shows? Oct 12 03:35:27 well that's quite the pigeonholing Oct 12 03:35:34 I don't think the xylophone would appreciate that Oct 12 03:36:55 a percussionist for what :p Oct 12 03:37:19 and does the xylophone player play anything else? Oct 12 03:38:00 he can also uh Oct 12 03:38:04 i dunno, clap or something Oct 12 03:38:13 a percussionist for percussion's sake Oct 12 03:38:25 like oh no what if this doesn't sound good without percussion Oct 12 03:38:43 do they play cowbell? Oct 12 03:39:04 dunno if we can afford more cowbell Oct 12 03:39:23 well, I got a fever... I gotta have more cowbell Oct 12 03:39:29 ... Oct 12 03:49:32 i've got a fever. and the only prescription. is. MORE COWBELL Oct 12 03:49:40 DO IT AGAIN Oct 12 03:51:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mie9hhQTUM Oct 12 04:06:03 ok.. cant figure out why I'm getting an error at line 13.. anyone? http://pastebin.com/DwVKvstQ Oct 12 04:08:17 * halfhalo knows Oct 12 04:08:28 * PatrickC wonders if he'll tell Oct 12 04:08:34 nope Oct 12 04:08:42 and why not? Oct 12 04:09:01 because if you look at that line its obvious Oct 12 04:09:02 can you not use a button in a toolbar? Oct 12 04:09:31 yeah it's pretty obvious. Oct 12 04:09:38 argh.. I see it now Oct 12 04:10:22 now unexpected string at line 14 Oct 12 04:10:32 should the toaster kind be outside the toolbar? Oct 12 04:10:49 oh Oct 12 04:10:50 my Oct 12 04:10:51 god Oct 12 04:10:56 becky Oct 12 04:10:58 look Oct 12 04:10:59 at Oct 12 04:11:00 that Oct 12 04:11:00 LOL Oct 12 04:11:01 butt Oct 12 04:11:04 it Oct 12 04:11:04 is Oct 12 04:11:06 like Oct 12 04:11:08 soooooooooooooo Oct 12 04:11:09 big Oct 12 04:11:20 http://www.bet.com/video/hiphopawards/2011/cyphers/hha-digitalcypher-s9.html Oct 12 04:11:22 damn^^ Oct 12 04:12:14 PatrickC i am not helping you at all with that code. because I would be here all night. because there are like 25 things wrong with it. and their all the same, stupid thing. Oct 12 04:12:30 they're* Oct 12 04:12:30 ;) Oct 12 04:12:49 SHADUP YOU Oct 12 04:13:17 I see them now Oct 12 04:13:32 summatusmentis: where's the butt? Oct 12 04:13:43 between the back and the legs Oct 12 04:13:45 generally Oct 12 04:13:54 oh. I was hoping it was a nice butt Oct 12 04:15:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyJeC99QO8A Oct 12 04:18:06 what Oct 12 04:18:06 the Oct 12 04:18:07 hell Oct 12 04:18:08 is Oct 12 04:18:09 that Oct 12 04:18:28 you... what? Oct 12 04:18:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImZTwYwCug&feature=related Oct 12 04:19:06 yea, that's the original Oct 12 04:19:07 Its Jonathan Coulton. Code Monkey Oct 12 04:19:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYodWEKCuGg Oct 12 04:19:38 yay coulton! Oct 12 04:19:47 JoCo :/ Oct 12 04:19:54 l00t Oct 12 04:21:47 rwatkins: LOL, a "hard" button. Oct 12 04:22:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVVZaZ8yO6o Oct 12 04:24:25 heh Oct 12 04:24:53 http://gear.ign.com/articles/119/1199751p1.html Oct 12 04:24:57 amd 8 core cpu's? Oct 12 04:25:32 if amd can beat intel to the punch with 8 core cpu's, they might be able to get back in the game Oct 12 04:29:30 * PatrickC yawns Oct 12 04:29:33 night all Oct 12 04:33:33 http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1139571-official-amd-bulldozer-reviews-thread.html Oct 12 04:33:34 fxspec06: I tossed you a review of the wild'n Oct 12 04:33:40 thanks shadyman Oct 12 04:33:43 wow amd is still behind. Oct 12 04:34:03 fxspec06: I've yet to figure out how to use the other app Oct 12 04:34:13 amd's 8 core processors can't beat intel's i5's and i7's Oct 12 04:34:23 and thsoe are LAST gen Oct 12 04:34:47 you open it and it lets you view your wllpaper Oct 12 04:34:54 i'll explain later i'm off to the hay Oct 12 04:57:47 ok, so, getting into my TTS stuff super late.. how do i set the thing executeable ?? Oct 12 05:00:27 is this some binary? chmod a+x ? Oct 12 05:00:39 yeah but how do i get it setup that way in the package Oct 12 05:01:00 oh, I have no clue about that. I would have thought it'd copy that from the source Oct 12 05:01:08 when you package it up Oct 12 05:01:20 the source is a windows machine Oct 12 05:02:10 umm... I dunno. do you get to write a postinst? Oct 12 05:02:24 or hopefully someone has a real solution Oct 12 05:03:03 as far as i know, you -can- but i have no idea how Oct 12 05:14:47 put postinst in control/ and then run palm-package? Oct 12 05:18:53 doesn't seem to do it Oct 12 05:26:32 well the answer apparently is package.properties, which also does not work Oct 12 05:27:14 Yeah, I just saw that on the dev forum Oct 12 05:31:23 HOW the hell do you do this.. wtf Oct 12 05:32:15 palm-package doesn't allow postinst Oct 12 05:32:29 package.properties should work Oct 12 05:32:59 package.properties, filemode.755=app/sdltts Oct 12 05:33:18 if you want a postinst that does work, see http://git.webos-internals.org/applications/hello/tree/Makefile Oct 12 05:33:30 also http://git.webos-internals.org/applications/hello/tree/package.properties Oct 12 05:38:40 yeah i just want a package.properties. but i'm not getting any love Oct 12 05:39:22 You gotta take it out to dinner first Oct 12 05:40:19 according to "ls -l" all files on my device are rwxrwxrwx .. wtf Oct 12 05:43:36 ok.. at maximum volume it's barely audible.. and it is executeable.. but the hybrid layer won't touch it Oct 12 05:45:41 also when i make changes via palm-install.. they aren't immediately reflected on device? Oct 12 05:50:54 lol i'm a dumbass Oct 12 05:51:03 * EricBlade waits for the chorus of people agreeing Oct 12 05:52:00 * Shadyman hums. Oct 12 05:52:04 No comment. Oct 12 05:59:45 it's "executable" not "executeable" Oct 12 05:59:52 and it was referring to my code and not the file on disk Oct 12 06:20:31 ahhh, typos Oct 12 06:25:53 that's just me not knowing how to spell i guess Oct 12 06:26:12 and an error message that i didn't follow the meaning of. because apparently i'm a dumbass. Oct 12 06:32:02 EricBlade: Story of my life? Oct 12 06:32:14 mine for sure Oct 12 07:05:02 cute. putting a HtmlContent into a Popup breaks everything. lol Oct 12 07:06:01 bah.. and i miss the submission deadline Oct 12 07:10:59 crap it's not the popup it's the html in it. grr. Oct 12 07:11:02 * EricBlade still a dumbass Oct 12 07:43:59 great. on a touchpad without the volume enhancer, you can't even hear the tts Oct 12 07:47:40 whoa suddenly the volume just blows me away. grr. Oct 12 08:01:54 hmm. i just tried to tts my two touchpads, and i noticed that even though they are literally two digits apart in serial numbers, and came from the same box and everything, they have vastly different displays Oct 12 08:02:04 and the TTS doesn't work at all while they are in their cases Oct 12 09:10:27 You know, I wish I could pair my TouchPad with both my webOS phones simultaneously. Oct 12 09:56:44 hi guys, is it possible to create WebOS SDK by embedding swf file and then add to app catalog? Oct 12 10:37:20 Hendikins: I wish I could tether my Touchpad with my non-webOS phone via bluetooth Oct 12 15:30:38 nyam Oct 12 15:31:37 nyan Oct 12 15:45:06 myan Oct 12 15:46:01 nyaaaaan ~~~~~ :3 Oct 12 15:54:36 nyan Oct 12 16:05:54 halfhalo: damn you, now I have stupid Hootie in my head Oct 12 16:10:40 lol Oct 12 16:25:08 halfhalo: what's that for a device? Oct 12 16:26:18 smth. to smirk: https://twitter.com/#!/DEVOPS_BORAT/status/124156253143449600 Oct 12 16:27:13 devops borat makes my days better :) Oct 12 16:32:54 img sent around work last week, because its so true http://bit.ly/mkgI4q Oct 12 16:35:04 hahaha Oct 12 16:35:06 no shit Oct 12 16:35:36 I had to live in that "we don't have dev NOR test environments" world once Oct 12 16:35:40 nerve-wracking Oct 12 16:35:42 sent around right after breaking a ton of stuff of course. Oct 12 16:35:48 :p Oct 12 16:35:51 rwatkins: lol! Oct 12 16:36:29 sugardave haha Oct 12 16:36:38 leiru_ zune hd Oct 12 16:36:42 worked at MLB. had dev and test enviornments, but deploying to production was simply a matter of tagging the file you just checked into CVS with tag "PROD" Oct 12 16:36:52 auto deployment to hundreds of servers. Oct 12 16:37:37 great way to get your code change to the yankees home page out immediately with zero approval. Oct 12 16:39:35 gah tweetdeck. why are you being so stupid Oct 12 16:40:04 MLB? the baseball guys? Oct 12 16:40:36 I helped advise them on AtBat Oct 12 16:40:44 ya Oct 12 16:40:57 ha, then you likely worked with Henry Belmont - used to work with him there. Oct 12 16:41:04 lmao Oct 12 16:41:41 yeah, that name is familiar...they really pretty much did everything themselves and I said stuff like "that's great" or "here do it this way instead" Oct 12 16:42:01 and thats the way the cookie crumbles Oct 12 16:43:12 ya, he wrote a number of their media player interfaces, so it likely wasnt too much of a stretch to do a webOS app. Oct 12 17:12:16 anyone else have problems connecting a touchpad via usb? I have to restart it first otherwise it won't work Oct 12 17:19:32 just ordered my UK Pre3 from amazon. Hope it's a good one. Oct 12 17:23:02 amazon have them? Oct 12 17:24:08 hang on... Price: £279.00 Oct 12 17:24:10 In stock. Oct 12 17:24:10 Dispatched from and sold by Luzern. Oct 12 17:24:24 HP Pre 3 - UK version (Unlocked), UMTS, GSM/EDGE, 8GB, Black, QWERTY Smartphone by HP Oct 12 17:24:26 the palm eurostore guys are selling direct via amazon, bypassing the hp pricing structure? Oct 12 17:24:27 Buy new: $253.25 Oct 12 17:24:30 10 new from $199.00 Oct 12 17:24:33 Only 4 left in stock - order soon. Oct 12 17:24:52 I don't see any sold by HP itself Oct 12 17:25:23 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005I3MDBS/ref=pe_151250_21421870_pe_vfe_dt1 Oct 12 17:25:38 hm, so like $205 for a UK pre3... guess that's a bit cheaper than the ebay at&ts if you don't care about the freqs Oct 12 17:26:27 I dodn't see the $199 ones :( Oct 12 17:27:00 you don't have the "10 new" link? Oct 12 17:27:22 under "more buying choices" under the "add to cart" box Oct 12 17:27:39 or under the "only 4 left in stock - order soon" in the main part of the desc? Oct 12 17:28:56 I see it now. I'm not so sure about those random sellers. I'm OK playing a little extra to go with a featured merchant. Oct 12 17:29:31 I'm not sure how they decide which ones to 'feature' Oct 12 17:29:47 but that is fair Oct 12 17:29:54 fwiw i once got scammed buying a ps2 via amazon marketplace Oct 12 17:30:02 amazon have no sympathy if things go wrong Oct 12 17:45:46 Can anyone help me with this? "[Enyo] Pane/FlexLayout: content overlaps" https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=18630 Oct 12 17:46:11 you know... it would really be helpful if it didn't take days for my internet to load anything. It really would. Oct 12 17:46:38 loswillios: happens all the time Oct 12 17:50:06 rwatkins: any known workaround (other than rebooting) Oct 12 17:51:50 not that I am aware of. there was a brief comment on it in the dev forums I think Oct 12 17:51:54 not sure what triggers it Oct 12 17:59:02 halfhalo - are you trying to load your backup already? Oct 12 17:59:14 ? Oct 12 17:59:25 you said 'take days to load' .. Oct 12 17:59:57 o.O i thought your school had fast internet Oct 12 18:00:08 it does Oct 12 18:00:10 THATS THE PROBLEM Oct 12 18:00:18 its not fast right now Oct 12 18:00:26 hm ok Oct 12 18:00:42 well, downloading is still @ like 8MB/s, but it seems dns lookup or something else is horribly slow Oct 12 18:00:44 oh i see. so you're back to 0.1Mb/s instead of 1000000.1Mb/s Oct 12 18:01:08 smh Oct 12 18:08:17 change your nameserver Oct 12 18:08:18 lol Oct 12 18:08:41 http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/ Oct 12 18:09:03 There's even a Preware patch to do that :) Oct 12 18:49:36 hiho Oct 12 21:57:53 MWHAHAHAHAHA, f you iscroll Oct 12 21:58:57 crazy Oct 12 22:07:28 scss is nuts Oct 12 23:46:49 muuuuurdur Oct 12 23:56:57 sugardave: Oct 12 23:57:14 http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/12/siri-weird-things-iphone-4s/ Oct 12 23:58:34 haeffb: Oct 12 23:58:55 hmm, this blog post says gmaps is now tossed for bing maps on all the old phones too Oct 12 23:59:11 yeah Oct 12 23:59:37 bummer Oct 13 00:00:15 if bing had transit directions for the services around palm hq, I'd probably not care so much Oct 13 00:01:02 hows things? Oct 13 00:01:16 cccccrrrrrraaaaaaazzzzzzyyyyyyy Oct 13 00:01:38 lies Oct 13 00:03:04 haeffb: I'm thinking the Longhorns are likely going to lose at OK State Oct 13 00:03:46 oh we are at home Oct 13 00:04:05 MU hosts ISU this weekend, then OSU next Oct 13 00:04:17 sitting at 2-3, need some wins. Oct 13 00:04:18 * dwc- boos mack brown Oct 13 00:04:54 AND IT'S FINALLY RAINING HERE!!!! Oct 13 00:05:18 (it's been awhile) Oct 13 00:05:57 apparently it rained here while I was at my mother-in-law's over the weekend Oct 13 00:06:01 finally, as well Oct 13 00:06:20 it rained here over the weekend. Oct 13 00:06:27 buuutttt is now like 90 and windy Oct 13 00:14:08 hah Oct 13 00:14:09 http://www.youtube.com/embed/ni7yJ2ncyW8 Oct 13 00:14:12 thats pretty good Oct 13 00:14:38 and only 1 dislike Oct 13 00:14:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7yJ2ncyW8 Oct 13 00:14:43 bette rlink Oct 13 00:28:12 that video is pretty depressing Oct 13 00:29:07 someone cared enough to put that together, but HP doesn't give a shit. they'll never care. the only thing that matters is short term cash for investors. Oct 13 00:43:07 that's pretty good Oct 13 00:47:10 I think the Start the Fire one should win Oct 13 00:49:15 hp released maps, which from my understanding is a mojo app. interesting. Oct 13 00:49:56 ooh it's nice too Oct 13 00:52:11 requires a phone restart..interesting.. Oct 13 00:53:38 yes, because it replaces the old gmaps Oct 13 00:54:23 ooh replaces...that's too bad Oct 13 01:20:33 yea.... Oct 13 01:26:01 so, anyone compared the version of Enyo installed with the new Maps on Pre2/Veer with the released versions? Oct 13 01:26:38 wondering if it was patched to fix the scroller or anything else Oct 13 01:29:23 more than anything its nice to see updates released from HP still Oct 13 01:30:19 wait, what? it installs enyo? they didn't just mojo it? Oct 13 01:30:42 yep installs enyo in the frameworks directory to apparently Oct 13 01:31:23 intereshting Oct 13 01:31:33 ya, no kidding Oct 13 01:31:39 now it's not just PatrickC with enyo on a pre2? ;) Oct 13 01:31:44 ha Oct 13 01:33:30 unfortunately I dont think there is any app dependency support so unclear how we'd be able to release apps requiring enyo Oct 13 01:33:40 unless I guess they clear the way to bundle it during app install for you. Oct 13 01:37:58 Hehe, u can delete the maps app Oct 13 01:38:17 does it delete Enyo? Oct 13 01:38:29 Does maps install the enyo framework? Oct 13 01:38:32 and then you have no maps? or does the google maps reappear magically? Oct 13 01:38:50 Google maps doesnt come back Oct 13 01:39:08 I use Sprint Navi on my Pre2 Oct 13 01:39:53 That wouldnexplain why the maps appnis 14mb big Oct 13 01:42:05 need break out the pre2 on an old profile and go snarf off that copy of enyo and diff it Oct 13 01:43:12 I think I need to do a script which renames the google maps app to something else before you install the bing maps Oct 13 01:43:28 funny, I was thinking I was either going to do that or make my own thin google maps wrapper Oct 13 01:44:23 quite frankly? the new maps is way faster than the gmaps Oct 13 01:44:35 Meh, bing maps doesnt even install on my pre2 sprint Oct 13 01:44:48 it installed perfectly on mine... Oct 13 01:45:19 Map updater has sat here for 10 mins or more Oct 13 01:46:28 weird, I told it to install, it did, then it asked me reboot, so I did, and now it works Oct 13 01:46:36 summatusmentis: faster is good ... I'm on EDGE. But, I do take transit enough to find transit directions useful Oct 13 01:46:59 and bing doesn't have them for this area Oct 13 01:47:34 Coming from SC, i dont even know what this "transit" is :-P Oct 13 01:47:43 that's actually a very good point, I should look at that. I might be really sad Oct 13 01:48:31 I mean, I'm sure bing is going to add support in the coming months or something, but ... Oct 13 01:48:35 oh, no, I'm good :-) Oct 13 01:48:38 Rofl... Oct 13 01:48:52 Like we havnt heard that a million times Oct 13 01:49:45 I'm very happy with the new maps, now I'd just like to see the app store let devs flag Enyo apps as "can work on phones" Oct 13 01:50:12 summatusmentis: if you look at the ipkg list, is there an enyo ipk? Oct 13 01:50:26 Is enyo faster performance wise? Oct 13 01:50:31 or is it part of the maps app (/usr/lib/ipkg/info/whateverthemapsappis.* Oct 13 01:51:40 dwc-: wait, which ipkg list? Oct 13 01:52:01 ipkg list | grep enyo? Oct 13 01:52:10 1 sec Oct 13 01:52:15 at least, I assume it's in / and not in /media/cryptofs/apps Oct 13 01:52:37 I could be wrong, but I don't remember there being a frameworks dir in the latter Oct 13 01:53:43 any idea what the | char is on a Pre keyboard? Oct 13 01:53:54 in xterm? shift . I think Oct 13 01:54:00 Sym Oct 13 01:55:00 was enyo on the pre3? Oct 13 01:55:11 grepping Enyo returns nothing Oct 13 01:55:13 Yes Oct 13 01:55:20 what about enyo (lowercase) Oct 13 01:55:21 and its sym+p Oct 13 01:55:35 same, that was autocorrect Oct 13 01:55:35 ipkg info enyo Oct 13 01:55:35 Package: enyo Oct 13 01:55:35 Version: 1.0-102.1 Oct 13 01:55:35 Status: install user installed Oct 13 01:55:39 thats on the pre3 Oct 13 01:55:58 nothing like that here Oct 13 01:56:15 What if it just looks like enyo? Oct 13 01:56:26 Has anyone actually checked the code? Oct 13 01:56:38 its clearly enyo and i havent seen it Oct 13 01:56:42 grep enyo /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/* ? Oct 13 01:56:45 mattsmcnulty on Twitter is certainly suggesting its enyo Oct 13 01:56:57 summatusmentis: make sure ure not using caps in grep Oct 13 01:56:58 cf. @mattsmcnulty Oct 13 01:57:33 hewball: I did, autocorrect Oct 13 01:57:37 ahh Oct 13 01:58:03 mattsmcnulty even joked with it.  Oct 13 01:58:15 dwc-: all sorts of output, scrolling by way too fast Oct 13 01:58:29 what's the part before the : then... that should be the package it's in Oct 13 01:59:05 oh, some of its tweaks, gimme a minute Oct 13 01:59:38 grep enyo /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/* | cut -d: -f1 | uniq Oct 13 01:59:52 actually, *list Oct 13 01:59:56 grep enyo /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/*list | cut -d: -f1 | uniq Oct 13 01:59:58 should be sufficient Oct 13 02:00:34 or, I guess, busybox grep does have -l Oct 13 02:00:46 grep -l enyo /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/lib/ipkg/info/*list ... and then you can peek at the ones that match to see Oct 13 02:01:06 Stupid maps... Oct 13 02:01:15 com.palm.app.maps.list is shown Oct 13 02:01:24 the others are other things Oct 13 02:01:57 so then if you open that file (less, vi, etc) you should be able to see where it installed the framework (if you really care) Oct 13 02:03:53 whoops, meetup time Oct 13 02:04:49 the maps app includes an enyo.tgz file that gets unpacked somewhere, I assume Oct 13 02:04:59 or cd /usr/palm/framworks and look for 'enyo' Oct 13 02:05:08 frameworks Oct 13 02:06:26 yeah, its in there Oct 13 02:10:29 so anyone care to zip it up and diff it against existing production enyo versions? Oct 13 02:15:56 rwatkins: let me know what folders you want and ill zip it up for you Oct 13 02:16:25 hewball: /usr/palm/frameworks/enyo if you could Oct 13 02:16:36 mines from the pre3 though Oct 13 02:16:43 ah, no Oct 13 02:16:46 thanks tho Oct 13 02:16:49 so not sure mine will help Oct 13 02:17:02 looking for enyo specifically from maps on a pre2 or veer Oct 13 02:17:25 ahh yeps Oct 13 02:18:13 booting up the old pre2 now will just take a while to dig up a sim and credentials to an older profile. Oct 13 02:19:21 curious to see if they fixed it enough for Paper Mache to run, and if its better or worse than on a Pre3. :) Oct 13 02:20:27 nice to see releases though tbh Oct 13 02:21:58 ya Oct 13 02:30:14 hey all, can't get into preware, wget fails Oct 13 02:30:19 wait, wrong place! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 13 02:59:57 2011