**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 22 02:59:56 2011
Oct 22 03:19:11 * DougReeder waves hello
Oct 22 03:19:21 <wrea> hi
Oct 22 03:20:15 <DougReeder> what are the subjects tonight?
Oct 22 03:21:17 <DougReeder> Looks like the haven't anounced the App Hack winner
Oct 22 03:22:08 <DougReeder> I wonder if they"re on Honolulu time.
Oct 22 03:22:31 <wrea> more like hp time
Oct 22 03:22:50 <wrea> announce whenever
Oct 22 03:23:30 * DougReeder nods
Oct 22 03:43:47 * DougReeder waves goodbye
Oct 22 03:54:23 <wrea> Looks like my veer will be shipping next week
Oct 22 04:41:49 <fxspec06> what's up everybody
Oct 22 04:43:10 <wrea> not much
Oct 22 04:44:31 <fxspec06> fun fun. i just spent a good.. oh 12 - 14 hours staring at eclipse
Oct 22 04:44:54 <fxspec06> i wonder what having a life feels like. it's been so long
Oct 22 04:46:27 <wrea> lol
Oct 22 04:47:34 <scoutcamper> fxspec06, can you tell me? i just spent 16hrs writing a 12pg reaserch paper on socil phobias
Oct 22 04:47:41 <scoutcamper> social*
Oct 22 04:48:01 <fxspec06> eclipse is a great name. it makes me think about a sinset or sunrise, and when i use it i'm usually using it from.. sunset to sunrise. and then long after sunset
Oct 22 04:48:23 <fxspec06> hm 12 page paper. that sounds fun
Oct 22 04:48:38 <fxspec06> make sure to go back and edit it a few times
Oct 22 04:48:49 <scoutcamper> when im concious again lol
Oct 22 04:48:54 <fxspec06> lol
Oct 22 04:49:12 <fxspec06> for real. i can barely click hte dev portal
Oct 22 04:49:29 * halfhalo cries
Oct 22 04:51:22 <wrea> halfhalo, lol, whats up?
Oct 22 04:51:44 <halfhalo> my 2500k is dead.  so currently using a G440 as a replacement cpu.
Oct 22 04:52:05 <wrea> ouch
Oct 22 04:52:08 <fxspec06> ouch
Oct 22 04:52:20 <halfhalo> literally
Oct 22 04:52:29 <halfhalo> the SLOWEST LGA1155 cpu in existance.
Oct 22 04:52:33 <fxspec06> how is it dead!?
Oct 22 04:52:52 <halfhalo> it just went kaput.  thought it was the mobo so rma'd that, no dice.
Oct 22 04:53:19 <fxspec06> oh man. how many weeks for a replacement
Oct 22 04:53:36 <fxspec06> how long i should say
Oct 22 04:54:07 <halfhalo> depends what i do.  theres always the frys route.... or warranty route if need be
Oct 22 04:54:52 <wrea> I wish I was closer to fry's
Oct 22 04:55:10 <fxspec06> ^^^ my closest fry's is like, an hr away
Oct 22 04:55:23 <fxspec06> past the apple store. more like hr & 1/2
Oct 22 04:55:43 <wrea> fxspec06, same here
Oct 22 04:55:51 <fxspec06> that's one way too lol
Oct 22 04:55:54 <wrea> when I lived in cali, 10 minutes
Oct 22 05:16:28 * dwc- can get to any of 4 frys in < 30m
Oct 22 05:25:25 <halfhalo> the cpu is literally bottlenecking EVERYTHING
Oct 22 05:25:32 <halfhalo> including itself
Oct 22 05:34:58 <wrea> dwc-, lucky you :P
Oct 22 05:35:20 <wrea> I lived in Martinez, so the Concord one was the closest
Oct 22 05:38:48 <dwc-> actually, might be able to make 5
Oct 22 05:46:15 <PatrickC> stbuehler: ping
Oct 22 05:46:17 <Freman> I live in australia... so I'd need a concord to get to the closest :(
Oct 22 05:46:17 <PatrickC> hey all
Oct 22 05:51:29 <PatrickC> wait.. what's fry's lol
Oct 22 05:52:25 <halfhalo> ...
Oct 22 05:53:01 * PatrickC lives out in the country
Oct 22 05:53:25 <wrea> my opinion of you got way lower, which I didnt think was possible
Oct 22 05:53:51 <EricBlade> someone released a 99c RDP client? are they insane?
Oct 22 05:54:59 <EricBlade> and some guy who can't get it to work gave it a 4* review? wtf is wrong with peeple
Oct 22 05:56:25 <PatrickC> EricBlade: everything.. everything is wrong with them..
Oct 22 05:57:27 <EricBlade> lol @ fxspec06 Leodarts is in the cat
Oct 22 05:58:06 <PatrickC> lol
Oct 22 05:58:08 <wrea> EricBlade, for being excellent at working badly
Oct 22 05:58:44 <EricBlade> wrea: people boggle my mind
Oct 22 05:58:46 <PatrickC> night all. gotta wake up in 5 hours... :/
Oct 22 07:18:06 <stbuehler> PatrickC_Away: pong. but i got a busy day ahead, so you might want to leave your message in a query :)
Oct 22 07:20:38 <dwc-> what's insane about a 99c rdp client?
Oct 22 07:41:56 <EricBlade> dwc-: that there are so many people that want one, why would you charge so little for it?  apparently it's kind of crap, though, and is a straight port of rdesktop
Oct 22 09:21:33 <stbuehler> can someone tell me the device description for the rear camera on a pre3?
Oct 22 09:22:10 <stbuehler> it looks like the user facing camera is first in the list, but i don't have a pre3, so i can't test it
Oct 22 13:20:10 <alok12345678> hi
Oct 22 13:20:13 <alok12345678> to all
Oct 22 13:24:36 <alok12345678> So Who is Purchasing HP-Palm webos business anyone has any idea
Oct 22 15:03:06 <fxspec06> ESCAPE
Oct 22 15:46:09 <EricBlade> hmm. does enyo provide any way to listen for user input other than keyboard and click? like.. holds, multiple finger presses, drags, flicks, etc ?
Oct 22 16:03:53 <rwatkins> yes
Oct 22 16:03:59 <rwatkins> ongesture
Oct 22 16:04:02 <rwatkins> onmousehold
Oct 22 16:04:02 <rwatkins> etc
Oct 22 16:21:01 * EricBlade digs thru the docs.  absolutely zero mentions. sigh.
Oct 22 16:23:06 <rwatkins> abandon docs.  use the source luke!
Oct 22 16:25:34 <EricBlade> what remains of the platform will never take off if it's not documented
Oct 22 16:25:36 <fxspec06> lmao
Oct 22 16:26:06 <fxspec06> they're javascript functions. onmousehold ongesture
Oct 22 16:26:25 <fxspec06> a lot of them are from mojo too
Oct 22 16:27:05 <rwatkins> EricBlade: the issue is that .. its also essentially web development.
Oct 22 16:27:19 <rwatkins> they're not going to document the entire world of web development in Enyo docs.
Oct 22 16:28:27 <EricBlade> i would agree with that if that were the case, but that doesn't appear to be the case
Oct 22 16:29:03 <rwatkins> so they need to go in there and document "font-weight: bold" so you know how to bold your text?
Oct 22 16:29:21 <dwc-> yea, otherwise I'm gonna <b> it
Oct 22 16:29:22 <EricBlade> no, i'm saying that there is no standard for this
Oct 22 16:29:22 <rwatkins> its there.  its ongesturestart ongestureend ondragstart ondragend
Oct 22 16:30:31 <rwatkins> the 'standard' is that they ported webkit and v8.  you get whats in there, they document the edges where its less clear or custom.
Oct 22 16:31:08 <rwatkins> i know its there, because I use them.  :)
Oct 22 16:31:49 <fxspec06> definitely there. same published events for android, ios, windows mobile etc
Oct 22 16:32:03 <fxspec06> well not exactly, more ios. not sure about others
Oct 22 16:32:10 <fxspec06> but yeah
Oct 22 16:32:28 <rwatkins> "onFoo" is an enyou synthesized event, "onfoo" is a standard dom event.
Oct 22 16:35:31 <EricBlade> i suppose if there were a page that says "we did this the exact same way that Apple did it, google for that." i guess at least i'd have a clue of where to start, rather than digging through the source code, finding a bit that looks relevant, googling it, and finding exactly zero hits, unless i search specifically for iphone
Oct 22 16:36:24 <fxspec06> why don't you try searching for javascript hold events instead of blaming hp for not creating a javascript guide
Oct 22 16:36:57 <EricBlade> try that search, see what comes up
Oct 22 16:37:00 <rwatkins> cd enyo/1.0/framework; ack "gesture" -> "Boom! solved!"
Oct 22 16:37:43 <rwatkins> cd enyo/1.0/framework; ack "hold" -> "onmousehold"
Oct 22 16:38:32 <fxspec06> a search for "javascript hold events" yeilded this link as 2nd result. --> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4080497/jquery-detecting-click-and-hold
Oct 22 16:38:47 <fxspec06> here we have two events in plain view, "mousedown" and "mouseup"
Oct 22 16:39:08 <EricBlade> neither of which are onmousehold
Oct 22 16:39:08 <fxspec06> a search for these events is 99.9% likely to lead you to onmousehold solution
Oct 22 16:39:28 <fxspec06> i know, because i searched for them myself a while back and found them.
Oct 22 16:39:46 <rwatkins> would be nice if there were extensive webOS docs on webkit html, css and js support and tons of examples, but ... is that really the priority?
Oct 22 16:40:08 <fxspec06> the docs are great imo
Oct 22 16:40:10 <rwatkins> particularly when its only v1 and they're tying to move fast.
Oct 22 16:40:22 <fxspec06> sometimes they can be frustrating, but for the most part they are a godsend.
Oct 22 16:40:25 <rwatkins> they're ... better than they used to be.
Oct 22 16:40:37 <fxspec06> ^^
Oct 22 16:40:50 <fxspec06> mojo docs were definitely not as useful as the new ones.
Oct 22 16:41:26 <rwatkins> wanna see how gargantuan the task of documentation can be go see msdn.microsoft.com
Oct 22 16:41:48 <fxspec06> LOL
Oct 22 16:41:52 <fxspec06> so true too
Oct 22 16:42:15 <rwatkins> the amount of documentation they have and maintain is insane.
Oct 22 16:42:59 <EricBlade> MSDN is one of the better examples of documentation out there - it certainly beats "pretty formatted versions of the comments in the source code" that passes for docs.  Historically, I don't know if this is still done, Microsoft will put the documentation for something together before implementing it.
Oct 22 16:43:06 <EricBlade> *would
Oct 22 16:43:49 <rwatkins> microsoft also has a zillion employees, boatloads of cash ... and moves very slowly.
Oct 22 16:43:49 <dwc-> msdn docs tend to have examples for all the languages they support too... c++/c#/jscript/vb/etc
Oct 22 16:43:57 <fxspec06> microsoft also has infinitely more resources and employees than palm
Oct 22 16:44:18 <dwc-> palm also moves very slowly :p
Oct 22 16:44:21 <rwatkins> ha
Oct 22 16:44:33 <EricBlade> anyway, thank you for the tips, always helpful.  and i do always search the documentation, and google, and other sources, before i come and ask things here.
Oct 22 16:44:35 <rwatkins> i can handle slowly, what I cant is over promise and under deliver
Oct 22 16:45:20 <fxspec06> sometimes things can be frustrating
Oct 22 16:46:17 <rwatkins> like they're only on the second app hack and they cant meet the deadline for announcing the winner
Oct 22 16:46:37 <rwatkins> or pivot - "warming up" -> "coming soon" -> "very soon" -> silence.
Oct 22 16:46:50 <dwc-> they must have been overwhelmed by all your awesome submissions :P
Oct 22 16:46:51 <EricBlade> at least they did get a new app hack out on time
Oct 22 16:47:13 <rwatkins> ya, once that claims enyo docs for events .. that dont exist.
Oct 22 16:47:17 <rwatkins> ones
Oct 22 16:47:44 <EricBlade> i'd rather have events that do exist documented  . . . hehe
Oct 22 16:47:44 <fxspec06> it's just hard when a small group of people seem to be the only ones allowed to manage a very large, growing ecosystem, and they have very little / no extra resources
Oct 22 16:47:45 <rwatkins> sloppy.
Oct 22 16:48:25 <fxspec06> even harder when every day you have no idea if this will be your last day at the company you've worked for most of your life.
Oct 22 16:48:59 <rwatkins> the smart ones will land somewhere good if it all falls apart.
Oct 22 16:49:49 <rwatkins> expertise in the mobile industry right now is very much in demand.
Oct 22 16:50:07 <fxspec06> so true
Oct 22 16:50:47 <EricBlade> google takes palm's ui designer, and pretty much ignores the rest of the company.  i guess that's indicative of what Google thought of Palm.
Oct 22 16:51:40 <rwatkins> they dont want the OS or the hardware, so just pick off the employees.
Oct 22 16:51:51 <EricBlade> it really is a brilliant interface, but you all know that already
Oct 22 16:55:06 <rwatkins> love it when i come back to my own code a couple months later - code I wrote but dont exercise in the implementation .. only to find it doesnt work.  :/
Oct 22 16:56:28 <fxspec06> lol
Oct 22 16:57:11 <rwatkins> look, heres a callback for change events.  excepts its only called on init, not change.  thanks self!
Oct 22 16:58:54 <fxspec06> how many tries does it take to get something right? 1, 2, 10, 9,000?
Oct 22 16:59:46 <EricBlade> anything i get right in the first try i am immediately suspicious of
Oct 22 17:00:43 <fxspec06> it has only happened once in my life. << this is a lie
Oct 22 17:22:51 <ajay__> oh always leave this logged in, gah :)
Oct 22 17:54:27 <fxspec06> holy wow lots of dupe code to merge here
Oct 22 18:02:28 <fxspec06> omg no way my cousin got a palm pre.
Oct 22 18:02:56 <fxspec06> and he never told me. what a jerk
Oct 22 18:44:12 <dwc-> probably embarassed
Oct 22 18:44:19 <dwc-> and didn't want you to make him buy your apps :P
Oct 22 18:50:15 <rwatkins> hm.  my kind is now 1200 lines long.  maybe time to restructure code.
Oct 22 18:57:20 <fxspec06> chuck norris's kind is 12B lines long.
Oct 22 18:58:23 <dwc-> if only. chuck norris could make new webos devices :p
Oct 22 20:47:15 <wrea> sweet, I get my veer on monday
Oct 22 21:32:47 <Tibfib_> nice
Oct 23 01:01:21 <PuffTheMagic> really too bad enyo is not opensource
Oct 23 01:01:33 <PuffTheMagic> im considering making a website in jo mobile
Oct 23 01:01:39 <PuffTheMagic> would would prefer to do it in enyo
Oct 23 01:20:19 <Shadyman> Is it just me or is the accelerometer apphack example slooooooow/unresponsive?
Oct 23 01:23:06 <Shadyman> That or the gravity setting just needs a bit of tweaking
Oct 23 01:23:57 <Tibfib_> PuffTheMagic: but enyo isn't really desktop browser friendly
Oct 23 01:24:03 <Tibfib_> only works in safari out of the box
Oct 23 01:26:13 <Shadyman> or Chrome
Oct 23 01:27:25 <Tibfib_> no, you have to launch chrome with some flags
Oct 23 01:29:15 <Shadyman> hm
Oct 23 01:33:58 <PuffTheMagic> Tibfib_, so jo it is
Oct 23 01:45:20 <ajay> heya
Oct 23 01:55:41 <wrea> hey
Oct 23 01:56:41 <PuffTheMagic> :( i dont want to learn jquery/jo mobile
Oct 23 01:57:04 <wrea> I get my veer on monday
Oct 23 01:59:01 <ajay> wrea: the repaired veer? you got a tracking #?  congrats!
Oct 23 02:00:07 <wrea> wrea, no, the replacement
Oct 23 02:00:18 <wrea> I need to send back the one they failed to repair
Oct 23 02:02:20 <ajay> err, yeah, that's what i meant.. ooo, just realized they'll never believe you sent it back to them!! ;^)
Oct 23 02:02:49 <ajay> anyone got suggestions of a way to keep the date on the system?  i grabbed an ntp package from preware but it's no go..
Oct 23 02:03:03 <ajay> (plus i hear that ntp is gross.. :)
Oct 23 02:03:15 <rwhitby> clock sync app
Oct 23 02:04:52 <ajay> rwhitby: ooo.. that sounds hella promisin :)
Oct 23 02:06:03 <ajay> is it in the precentral feeds? I don't see it in preware..
Oct 23 02:06:32 <ajay> ohh it's in the appcat?! wild
Oct 23 02:07:26 <ajay> oo, it's nice to see "palm app catalog" in my just type search options (on my pre+ :)
Oct 23 02:09:52 <ajay> i wouldn't have expected an app to have access to the system time, interesting..
Oct 23 02:09:54 * rwhitby goes back to working on Tailor
Oct 23 02:09:58 <ajay> nice!
Oct 23 02:11:33 <ajay> and any suggestions on how to get apps to start on startup? (other than adding them to every mode switcher mode.. oh maybe i can add it to the default mode, hrmm.. but i only want at startup, not everytime we jump to default/etc)
Oct 23 02:19:51 <ajay> ta
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 23 02:59:57 2011