**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 03 02:59:57 2011 Dec 03 03:00:06 hmm. my pre- stores images and videos with the timestamp not respecting daylight savings Dec 03 03:01:23 and 2.1.0 stores them with UTC time Dec 03 03:02:28 and with all the same filenames, that is going to make it a serious pain in the ass to coordinate figuring out what order all these pictures and videos we got last night go in Dec 03 03:02:37 c: Dec 03 03:02:39 ooops Dec 03 03:05:44 holy crap the audio came out waaaaay better than i expected though Dec 03 03:11:09 i think the pre- audio came out way better than the pre+ .. damn. video is virtually identical though, except the + supports video in portrait mode apparently Dec 03 03:16:22 * EricBlade receives a spam in his inbox for a Tegra 3 quad-core android.. sigh Dec 03 03:17:23 ugh. there is someone that thinks their email address is 'rwatkins@gmail.com' -- and its not. its mine. Dec 03 03:18:02 so I get stuff like Verizon bill info or Apple Id registration messages. lovely. Dec 03 03:19:12 someone hacked my yahoo account a few months ago, and used it to make a facebook and friendster account. Dec 03 03:19:52 atleast if you recover your account you can go delete that crap. Dec 03 03:20:12 verizon will not let me acutally just shut off their account w/o their phonenumber as well. otherwise i would Dec 03 03:20:12 i changed my passwords, then requested the passwords to their facebook and friendster, and that guy suddenly came out of the closet and revealed his love for large hairy men. Dec 03 03:20:31 ha Dec 03 03:20:55 but like WTF? how do you not know your own correct email address? Dec 03 03:21:22 and even better when services dont verify it Dec 03 03:23:33 i had one email address that was on my parents telephone account for .. 20 years, almost. my parents decided to get their own email account, but the provider recovered the account i'd been using to them, instead of making a new one. i got the account back after a year or so, with so much porno spam, i ended up abandoning it. Dec 03 03:35:23 sup ya Dec 03 04:29:35 good lord my ipod takes forever to move files to my computer compared to these pres Dec 03 04:39:42 i had the opposite effect Dec 03 04:39:49 but i don't have an ipod any more Dec 03 04:58:35 hmm. the still picture quality on the ipod blows too, but the video quality beats the crap out of the pre Dec 03 04:59:23 ok, so, pre+ for still images, and ipod for recording. got it. wish i had tested it before hand yesterday, not that it would've mattered all that much, since all three batteries were dead by the time the concert ended Dec 03 05:15:43 ls Dec 03 05:25:58 ls -al Dec 03 05:27:06 haha sorry, i was switching windows and i typed in the wrong one :P Dec 03 05:27:28 ;) Dec 03 05:28:57 hey Shadyman, do you know much about webos tweaking? Dec 03 05:29:30 hmmm. Not really. Dec 03 05:29:35 cause im trying to find the definitions for the google chat synergy service Dec 03 05:29:35 What kinda tweaking? Dec 03 05:29:47 ah Dec 03 05:30:18 Not offhand Dec 03 05:30:27 like im trying to find it because i want to attempt to see how the google chat works and apply it to getting facebook chat working Dec 03 05:30:40 cool Dec 03 05:31:18 try a find / -name '*synergy*' ? Dec 03 05:31:48 I know there's a tutorial on making your own synergy service Dec 03 05:32:07 haha ill try, though cd ing through every directory on the device is more my style :P Dec 03 05:32:14 I-- Dec 03 05:32:23 haha yeah, i looked at the tutorial Dec 03 05:32:23 Well, I can't argue with that kind of persistence. Dec 03 05:32:36 hahaha thanks Dec 03 05:35:19 the tutorial should tell you where services need to be put, no? Dec 03 05:36:28 WOW.... sometimes i fail. stupid overthinking haha Dec 03 05:38:23 ooooo lots of settings... this looks like fun :) Dec 03 05:39:01 whee Dec 03 05:41:44 yeah... im hoping i can do this without recompiling libpurpleadapter Dec 03 05:44:59 mscoolnerd: if i'm not mistaken, you can just edit your hosts file, and point talk.google.com to facebook's chat server instead Dec 03 05:45:26 yeah, but i want to keep my google chat as well :P Dec 03 05:45:38 plus this is more fun :P Dec 03 05:45:48 that's the funny thing, apparently when actually using google talk, it uses a hardcoded ip address Dec 03 05:46:02 at least .. that's the conclusion someone came to a couple of months ago Dec 03 05:46:49 i haven't even looked at it in the slightest, it's on my todo list to figure out synergy messaging stuff someday, but after the messaging app mis-delivered a message, I haven't started it since Dec 03 05:46:53 that was about a month ago Dec 03 05:47:20 really? thats weird. well either way, if i can figure this out then it would open it up to using any jabber/xmpp service Dec 03 05:48:36 that'd be awesome Dec 03 05:50:53 yeah... like i said tho im still a noob with webos but i've got high hopes :P Dec 03 06:25:52 * EricBlade sighs, noting that the html5 video on youtube does not function on touchpad Dec 03 06:34:46 at least in skype, there is a non-zero possibility that the messaging app can misdeliver a message Dec 03 06:36:13 so it sends a message to the wrong person? Dec 03 06:37:03 well, what happened in the instance i saw, was that i was in a group chat, and one person in the group opened a new private conversation with me. everything i wrote ended up in the group chat though Dec 03 06:37:58 haha thats odd.... interesting Dec 03 06:44:50 and awkward Dec 03 06:45:47 yeah Dec 03 07:07:16 EricBlade: what do you mean "not respecting daylight savings" Dec 03 07:07:43 FAT32 doesn't do UTC, ... if you put it into any other device, the time would be wrong Dec 03 07:08:10 dwc-: the Pre- 1.4.5 recorded all the time stamps an hour ahead .. the pre+ recorded them all in UTC (4 hours ahead) .. and my iPod recorded all the time stamps correctly Dec 03 07:08:19 19:13 < rwatkins> ugh. there is someone that thinks their email address is 'rwatkins@gmail.com' -- and its not. its mine. Dec 03 07:08:23 happens all the time Dec 03 07:08:36 I have multiple friends who get stuff for people with names similar to theirs Dec 03 07:09:12 are you sure the TZ was set correctly? Dec 03 07:10:27 it better be, cdma phones can't operate if their time settings are more than about 1/10th of a second off Dec 03 07:10:58 nah, that's all UTC Dec 03 07:11:19 time zone is transmitted along with the utc time though Dec 03 07:11:29 that doesn't mean it gets used... Dec 03 07:11:51 i don't think i've ever even seen a digital era cell phone with an option to set time zone, dst, etc, because that's all handled by the towers Dec 03 07:11:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS#Universal_time Dec 03 07:12:15 the pre2 deals with it itself Dec 03 07:12:31 (since it runs linux and runs in UTC) Dec 03 07:12:43 question is, why would the phone record time stamps in something other than local time on the fat system? Dec 03 07:13:09 I had the radios off around the DST switchover and it took care of it just fine Dec 03 07:15:35 my pre2/2.1.0 doesn't Dec 03 07:16:03 doesn't what Dec 03 07:16:22 store it in something other than local time Dec 03 07:16:43 well i know my phone was not saying it was 4:30am when i stopped recording with it Dec 03 07:16:51 and that's what it's timestamps show Dec 03 07:17:24 maybe windows is re-translating it soemhow Dec 03 07:17:35 it can't. there's no TZ information on FAT Dec 03 07:17:45 NTFS it could, because NTFS is stored in UTC Dec 03 07:19:12 hmm Dec 03 07:20:13 File date : 2011:11:17 21:12:06 Dec 03 07:20:20 Date/Time : 2011:11:17 16:12:07 Dec 03 07:20:30 Date/Time is the exif information Dec 03 07:20:51 File date is what I see in windows Dec 03 07:21:16 (UTC-8) Dec 03 07:23:24 Date/Time is in local time (UTC-5) Dec 03 07:26:37 ls on the phone says -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 947487 Nov 17 13:12 CIMG0206.jpg Dec 03 07:27:05 (which is currently in UTC-8 Dec 03 07:28:40 that's odd... I stuck it in perth, AU and now it's come up with Nov 18 05:12 Dec 03 07:33:56 * dwc- realizes that even if he can remote WOL his linux machine on the other side of the room, he still has to get up to plug in an external drive with a fat32 on it Dec 03 07:39:55 107 tz=UTC -- Interpret timestamps as UTC rather than local time. Dec 03 07:41:32 looks like there's an option to ... in some versions later than my machine Dec 03 07:45:16 so it's stored in "local" on the fs, and the kernel is converting it so that userspace can treat it like other utc-based fs Dec 03 07:50:23 which probably means there's no conversion back for the usb-disk presented to the computer so that it looks "utc-based" Dec 03 13:55:08 good place to talk about Save/Restore? Dec 03 13:55:47 my install of save/restore doesnt backup my com.palm.app.messaging :( Dec 03 13:55:55 any thoughts on reasons why? Dec 03 13:55:57 need help troubleshooting Dec 03 13:55:58 thanks. Dec 03 14:42:54 there's a save/restore thread on precentral.. Dec 03 14:43:11 if you're lucky, you could catch rwhitby before he goes to sleep Dec 03 14:44:03 but .. most likely com.palm.app.messaging may not have been implemented because it is originally backed up to your palm profile. but i honestly don't know, just a thought Dec 03 14:59:57 thanks fxspec06 Dec 03 15:00:03 rwhitby are you in? Dec 03 15:00:27 i want to hace access to the xml file saverestore outputs from its backup Dec 03 15:00:44 but it wont recognise com.palm.app.messaging as a supported app Dec 03 15:00:53 it says its supported in the wiki, but doesnt appear on my list Dec 03 18:45:11 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/3/2608110/touchpad-go-shows-up-on-ebay-for-700 Dec 03 18:55:33 IT"S MINE Dec 03 18:56:06 you have buyed ? Dec 03 18:56:28 nah, I kid. I'm not going fo rit Dec 03 18:57:57 it's shame, that people have no oportunity to buy this normal way :( Dec 03 19:09:22 from china eh Dec 03 19:09:26 It's not a real touchpad go Dec 03 19:09:37 It's a "louchnad ge" Dec 03 19:09:59 the letters are close enough tho you can't tell the difference till you buy it and have it in your hand, then you are like, well darn. Dec 03 19:15:29 sounds like the POS famicom I used to have Dec 03 19:17:03 lol "louchnad ge" :D Dec 03 19:17:32 it's like Fuma or Mike Dec 03 19:24:58 well i got facebook to have the "Messaging" Option show up in accounts so there's progress.... baby steps haha Dec 03 19:26:18 Reasons for installing CM7 on my Tocuhpad? (other than more apps) Also what are the chances I'll end up with a brick? Thanks =) Dec 03 19:30:23 Boopop: you might want to ask in #cyanogenmod-touchpad Dec 03 19:45:27 Ah thanks akanster , wasn't even aware it existed :) Dec 03 19:45:36 np Dec 03 20:48:58 Tibfib: at the game? Dec 03 21:34:38 lol, i just bought a palm pixi that won't work on my network Dec 03 21:34:46 $29.99, couldn't say no Dec 03 21:51:16 Tommy :)) what network do you use ? Dec 03 21:51:52 PaNeL: t-mobile US Dec 03 21:52:03 and i'm definitely not switching, but now i have a palm pixi for sprint Dec 03 21:52:55 t-mobile us have gsm network ? Dec 03 21:56:09 PaNeL, yes, but voice does not work on webOS devices and its limited to Edge speeds. Dec 03 21:58:03 voice doesn't work on webOS devices w/ t-mobile? really? Dec 03 21:58:13 dwc- doesn't have any issues, iirc? Dec 03 22:04:25 I think he got a sprint pixi Dec 03 22:11:21 awesome pre-purchase research Dec 03 22:15:40 for a $29,99 you don't need any research ;) Dec 03 22:21:29 if $30 is nothing to you guys, you must be far richer than I Dec 03 22:22:10 Might as well give me the $30 if you can through it around Dec 03 22:22:10 lol Dec 03 22:22:47 haeffb: nopee Dec 03 22:22:58 I don't have season tickets. Dec 03 22:26:28 rwhitby I will donate, maybe not $30, but will :) Dec 03 22:28:13 I'm not so rich, but love gadgets Dec 03 22:29:01 my wife can say something about that Dec 03 22:42:44 PaNeL: yes t-mobile is GSM Dec 03 22:43:00 summatusmentis: sprint is CDMA, totally different than GSM Dec 03 22:43:35 rwhitby: i just wanted to have a webOS device to mess with Dec 03 22:43:41 wasn't meant to be used as a phone Dec 03 22:44:03 i'm running ICS on my phone :) Dec 03 22:50:26 Tommy: no kidding, I was responding to ka6sox Dec 03 22:50:43 ah k Dec 03 22:51:04 summatusmentis, really? Dec 03 22:51:08 summatusmentis: you planning on staying with webOS? Dec 03 22:51:09 the Veer doesn't Dec 03 22:51:18 or I would have setup my son to use it. Dec 03 22:51:39 Tommy: for a while, I'll likely switch eventually Dec 03 22:52:00 ka6sox: voice definitely works between all GSM phones Dec 03 22:52:07 ka6sox: talk to dwc-, as far as I know he's been using T-mobile for a while. Might need to unlock the veer Dec 03 22:52:15 Tommy: sprint veer doesn't even have wifi, not much good without the phone bit Dec 03 22:52:17 okay, then I am OTL... Dec 03 22:52:41 rwhitby: it's not a veer, but LOL that's hilarious, waste of money then Dec 03 22:52:52 i'll give it to someone on sprint if it doesnt have wifi Dec 03 22:52:56 s/veer/pixi/ Dec 03 22:54:10 rwhitby: wanna buy a pixi for $30? Dec 03 22:54:40 * rwhitby chuckles Dec 03 22:54:58 :P Dec 03 22:55:08 idk, maybe you don't like GSM and are too poor for verizon Dec 03 22:55:13 those are the only people that use sprint right? Dec 03 22:56:53 * rwhitby notes the nearest CDMA network to him is probably 1/6 the circumference of the earth away Dec 03 22:57:14 and the nearest sprint is at least 1/4 away Dec 03 22:58:03 yeah, CDMA is pretty ludicrous Dec 03 22:58:26 verizon has the most advanced LTE network on the planet and their phones are still locked to accounts until users call in, can't just swap a SIM Dec 04 00:09:58 so, it seems I'm no longer developing my webOS apps. Should I make them free in the catalog? Or keep collecting (ever-diminishing) sales revenue? Dec 04 00:10:50 open source them Dec 04 00:11:19 sugardave: sorry about the 'horns. Dec 04 00:11:23 they already area Dec 04 00:11:25 are Dec 04 00:11:39 MIT license Dec 04 00:11:52 oh, in that case keep selling them. Dec 04 00:12:31 is it fair to add a "not really supported anymore" line in the app description? Dec 04 00:12:43 I mean, of course it's fair Dec 04 00:13:20 "This application is abandoned. If it works for you as-is, excellent. If it does not, you've only wasted $x" Dec 04 00:13:44 "The source code is available at ... if you want to fix any bugs yourself" Dec 04 00:14:51 yeah, good plan. Of course, if Meg resurrects webOS, then support may pick up again. Dec 04 00:15:55 haeffb: I think adding that would remove any more possible sales Dec 04 00:16:50 maybe Dec 04 00:17:01 there aren't very many any more as it is. Dec 04 00:17:15 yeah, so you don't really have to worry about support either Dec 04 00:17:21 I'd leave it as is. Dec 04 00:21:14 i think its safe to assume most apps are abandonware Dec 04 00:21:17 did the 'cats win? Dec 04 00:21:21 webOS apps Dec 04 00:25:36 haeffb: aye! Dec 04 00:25:39 10-2 Dec 04 00:25:41 akanster: I would say more than 50%, but less than 80% Dec 04 00:25:43 great season Dec 04 00:25:53 akanster: lots of new touchpad apps Dec 04 00:26:01 for phone-only apps, more than 80% Dec 04 00:26:06 oh I was talking Mojo apps Dec 04 00:26:15 * akanster should have specified Dec 04 00:26:32 * Tibfib updated his mojo app recently Dec 04 00:26:46 * rwhitby started a new mojo app recently Dec 04 00:27:06 enjo is a dead end :) Dec 04 00:27:09 heh, not going to go thaaat far Dec 04 00:27:23 mojo is the only way to reach the whole webOS device base Dec 04 00:27:31 I really wish enyo was cross licensed. Dec 04 00:27:42 Sencha is too much. Jo is too little. Dec 04 00:27:53 Enyo could be amazing as it matures. Dec 04 00:28:02 Too bad it is going to die unless things change dramatically Dec 04 00:46:51 haeffb: what are your apps? Dec 04 00:53:00 Done!, Noted!, pondNotes, Myles Dec 04 00:58:18 Tibfib: yes, great season. Dec 04 01:17:09 what webOS devices are not reached by Enyo? Dec 04 01:17:47 any device that cannot install apps from the app catalog Dec 04 01:18:02 uh, ok. thats like .. 4. Dec 04 01:18:38 if you're speaking from a US-only perspective, yes. Dec 04 01:19:00 I'm speaking of the number of physical devices in actual use. Dec 04 01:19:33 so you don't know about the hundreds of webOS devices in china that access the Preware feeds then Dec 04 01:19:49 yep, I'm sure they're suffering w/o Enyo. Dec 04 01:20:59 whether they are or not, if you want to reach them (which obviously you don't) then you need to use mojo Dec 04 01:21:20 no actually you dont Dec 04 01:21:25 you can use your own framework. Dec 04 01:21:29 sure Dec 04 01:21:51 granted Dec 04 01:22:22 let me rephrase my statement then as "out of mojo and enyo, mojo is the only way to reach the whole webOS device base" Dec 04 01:22:29 so ya, sure I guess you can suffer mojo and to enable all those bazallion devices in countries that the devices were never released in. Dec 04 01:22:39 does that satisfy your pedantry? Dec 04 01:23:11 i think you're the master of pedantry around here Dec 04 01:23:13 of course if you're selling apps, none of those devices are in your scope anyway Dec 04 01:23:43 but then neither are any of the other devices going to be either soon Dec 04 01:23:56 soon being how long? Dec 04 01:24:38 "soon" being .. like atleast a year from now perhaps. Dec 04 01:24:55 "soon" being basically half the life of webOS so far. Dec 04 01:24:58 somewhere between 10 days and 1 year I would expect Dec 04 01:25:32 I'll take the bet on 1 yr, not 10 days. but if you wanna lay down actual cash on 10 days I'll happily take that bet. Dec 04 01:25:33 so a HP/Palm "in the coming weeks" Dec 04 01:26:02 hehe Dec 04 01:26:22 oh, the 10 days would not be an actual closure, it would be a "there's no-one left working here who knows how to fix this app catalog error which is suddenly preventing downloads" Dec 04 01:26:32 e.g. service bitrot Dec 04 01:26:54 I would expect "service" would include "works" that you cahn download apps. Dec 04 01:27:13 you've done great work, but youre just stroking your own ego with these predictions of the end of the world next week. Dec 04 01:27:20 Psh Dec 04 01:27:24 everyone knows that's 2012! Dec 04 01:27:33 no, I'm not predicting the end of the world for webOS any time soon Dec 04 01:27:51 I'm predicting a slow, painful degradation of service over a period of weeks to a year. Dec 04 01:28:07 with no clear decision made on anything during that time Dec 04 01:28:50 every week or so its another tweet of "prepare yourself - the end is nigh!" Dec 04 01:29:16 yep, people should. Dec 04 01:29:35 you don't take out insurance the day after the disaster Dec 04 01:29:55 and ya, the disaster ... could be tomorrow! Dec 04 01:30:20 well, backups weren't working yesterday, and it's clear they had no-one on hand who could fix it quickly. Dec 04 01:30:40 it's easy to see that happen to the app catalog too Dec 04 01:30:54 more incentive for them to fix it, due to the money involved of course Dec 04 01:31:09 whatever. you've built alternatives, so you're now stroking your own ego promoting the 'doom and gloom' Dec 04 01:31:29 there are no alternatives to the app catalog that I am aware of. Dec 04 01:31:32 the work is great, your self promotion is .. annoying. Dec 04 01:31:49 no-one has redistribution rights for any app catalog apps other than palm Dec 04 02:46:31 holy Dec 04 02:46:36 crap Dec 04 02:46:36 http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-TouchPad-Go-7in-3G-wifi-32G-/330651963819?pt=US_Tablets&hash=item4cfc6491ab#ht_500wt_1199 Dec 04 02:47:55 it begins Dec 04 02:56:06 * EricBlade1 chuckles. people still refer to organizers and organizer software as "palm pilots". Dec 04 02:58:00 EricBlade: ooooo do they fly? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 04 02:59:58 2011