**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 09 02:59:58 2011 Dec 09 03:17:06 so, along with that Pre2, I got 2 pre touchstones, 2 pre ac adapters, 2 usb cords, an extra touchpad ac adapter, an official palm case, and a ATT SIM card. Not a bad deal at all for $50 Dec 09 03:18:38 i still don't have like. a normal touchstone Dec 09 03:18:38 nice! Dec 09 03:18:44 which is nuts because i have like 3 pre's Dec 09 03:18:51 hopefully i can grab a touchpad during the next "firesale" Dec 09 03:19:09 i remember this one time i spelled touchpad wrong. i spelled it 'ouchpad' Dec 09 03:19:24 toiletpaper Dec 09 03:20:09 EricBlade1: that's a very good deal Dec 09 03:20:16 fxspec: i bought two for $6 ea on amazon Dec 09 03:21:55 yeah i know, i'm still "saving" my money tho Dec 09 03:22:02 hook a brotha up Dec 09 03:23:43 hmm. i note the manual says i should see a "G" or "3G" icon for data. 3G is obvious, but I normally get "E" and what is "G"? i assumed E was EDGE and G was GPRS Dec 09 03:27:31 E is edge Dec 09 03:27:36 no evdo* Dec 09 03:28:34 * DougReeder waves hello Dec 09 03:29:06 isn't evdo cdma? Dec 09 03:30:32 I forget. Dec 09 03:31:49 it is. i thought you had cdma. maybe it's not cdma specific Dec 09 03:32:31 nope it's definitely cdma Dec 09 03:32:50 so the e you are seeing is most likely edge Dec 09 03:33:27 ok got the manual Dec 09 03:33:38 G is GPRS, E is EDGE, 3G is HSDPA or UMTS Dec 09 03:33:50 "enhanced data for gsm evolution" -- edge Dec 09 03:34:17 curious. I get much better performance out of ol GPRS than I do with EDGE Dec 09 03:34:18 "general packet radio service" -- gprs Dec 09 03:34:41 you should get the best from 3g Dec 09 03:34:59 i don't get 3G on t-mo Dec 09 03:35:20 what's your data speeds like just curious Dec 09 03:35:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gprs Dec 09 03:36:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution Dec 09 03:36:47 on edge i get around 0.06mbps with a 3000ms ping .. i haven't been on gprs long enough to get a test done, since i only get that when i'm in the middle of nowhere Dec 09 03:36:53 so it looks like GPRS is used for 2g and 3g networks, and edge is strictly pre 3g.. Dec 09 03:36:55 and am usually in a car Dec 09 03:37:13 i know on my vzw evdo i'd get about .2mbps if i'm lucky Dec 09 03:37:33 but i do notice that i can actually use my data connection without wanting to cry when i've got the G logo up Dec 09 03:38:16 GPRS is now maintainedd by the theird generation partnership project "3GPP" Dec 09 03:38:22 so it's _almost_ 3g Dec 09 03:38:26 but not really at all Dec 09 03:38:44 i wonder if i can tell the palm phone to ignore EDGE Dec 09 03:39:02 2G cellular technology combined with GPRS is sometimes described as 2.5G Dec 09 03:39:28 it's probably not a good idea to ignore it completely. it would be a better idea to give it a higher priority Dec 09 03:39:43 but to do that you may have to increase the polling rate, which may decrease battery life... Dec 09 03:39:57 blah blah something i'm not experienced with. Dec 09 03:40:37 according to the manual, gprs is your 1g, which should get you up to around 9600bps maybe 14400 if i remember correctly. edge is speeds up to 240kbps, umts up to 384kbps and hsdpa up to 700kbps Dec 09 03:41:16 i think they both work together Dec 09 03:41:37 i think when gprs is working, edge is also working too Dec 09 03:41:37 that jibes with what i remember from the dawn of the digital cellular industry .. though i think "edge" started off around 28kbps for a long time .. doesn't look like it goes any faster around here either Dec 09 03:42:36 it doesn't look like there's anything in the normal softwares to specify a network or data type to go to Dec 09 03:42:46 if i could set it to ignore edge, at least i could get a speed comparison Dec 09 03:43:24 there's a special code you can enter to go into the service menu Dec 09 03:43:35 it may be like #*service# idk Dec 09 03:45:08 or it could just plain be in the phone app prefs Dec 09 03:46:36 or it could be #*data# ##data# Dec 09 03:48:47 didn't even think about the phone menu. i always forget about the app menu Dec 09 03:50:30 i always come across these tidbits when i don't need them, then when i need them i can never find them or forget them. then if i bookmark them, i never can find the bookmark Dec 09 03:50:37 i've been in that menu before too Dec 09 03:52:10 hmm. i can set "2g" or "3g" Dec 09 03:52:34 turn off the 3g Dec 09 03:52:38 save some batt Dec 09 03:53:26 probably because it's 11pm but i just hit 70kbps .. :O Dec 09 03:53:51 and pings are down to 1.2sec Dec 09 03:54:08 lies Dec 09 03:54:13 my edge is way better than my gprs Dec 09 03:54:16 I get gprs inside my house Dec 09 03:54:26 and in a couple of spots on the bus ride Dec 09 03:54:41 * fxspec06 gets 3mbps w/ his super fast non-faux 3g :D Dec 09 03:54:43 some days, no data goes anywhere while i'm on gprs... ping to dns, nope. ping to ppp peer? nope Dec 09 03:55:12 p.s. tethering my 3g to touchpad is like really slow Dec 09 03:55:44 tethering my 2.5g to touchpad is really slow too =[ Dec 09 03:56:11 can i use a regular usb cable with the power adapters, or is that a risk of meltdown? Dec 09 03:57:00 pre2 is good w/ other chargers in my experience Dec 09 03:57:10 unlike the pre-/+ models Dec 09 03:57:38 it's always recommended to use the official cable and power brick Dec 09 03:57:40 yes you can Dec 09 03:57:40 well i loaded my music program, and then the network stopped responding completely Dec 09 03:57:57 I sometimes use the $1 retractable usb cable Dec 09 03:58:06 (keeps things neater) Dec 09 03:58:06 but there are no special pins or anything. Dec 09 03:58:38 I started to do some testing with a friend, but we didn't get any results before we had to stop. Dec 09 03:58:57 it could hinder network performance. i'm no expert w/ cables but i do know that cables cause interference Dec 09 03:59:14 loaded your music program? Dec 09 03:59:18 it could also have the opposite affect though too so idk Dec 09 03:59:27 what does that have to do with the usb cable? Dec 09 03:59:51 lol good question Dec 09 04:00:03 The wall wart is more likely to be special than the cable. Dec 09 04:00:30 the wall wart is wonderfully standard, afaict.... unlike, say, a crackberry Dec 09 04:00:31 ooh. http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/64760/kohls-monopoly-nintendo-collectors-edition-board-game Dec 09 04:01:59 * rwhitby recommends Monster(TM) brand USB cables, for perfect reproduction of your music when transferring it over USB to your webOS device. Dec 09 04:02:13 only $70? Dec 09 04:02:38 The Android version is only $70. The webOS version is $230. Dec 09 04:02:46 well of course Dec 09 04:02:50 because webOS is so much better Dec 09 04:03:24 There's a Beats version too - it's $700. Dec 09 04:03:37 But I want a Monster-brand touchstone dock! Dec 09 04:03:49 one that charges 1100% faster. Dec 09 04:04:10 with gold plated connectors for connection to the device? Dec 09 04:04:22 gold-plated induction coil Dec 09 04:04:41 "cause gold does not get in the way of the energy being transferred" Dec 09 04:04:48 should be visible though so you have the bling factor Dec 09 04:04:51 wow Dec 09 04:04:57 you guys are totally buying the wrong cables. Dec 09 04:05:01 * fxspec06 rocks hard with http://www.amazon.com/Atlona-Technologies-22-060-2-AT-RGB3224-A-by/dp/B000GW7S4S/ref=sr_1_15?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1323403214&sr=1-15 Dec 09 04:05:24 Oooo Dec 09 04:05:32 10% off? It must be faulty. I want to pay FULL PRICE. Dec 09 04:05:45 now i need to figure out if i can get service on this ATT Microsim Dec 09 04:06:58 why are you microsim'ing? Dec 09 04:07:35 because that's what came with it Dec 09 04:07:49 Error: The SIM number entered does not exist. screw you, ATT Dec 09 04:09:08 AT&T truly does not want me as a customer Dec 09 04:10:04 you probably don't want to be their customer either Dec 09 04:10:28 I wish someone would do an ICS on nexus S vs. iPhone 4S comparison Dec 09 04:10:50 * dwc- nominates summatusmentis Dec 09 04:10:51 you know, I really don't, but I can't be a Sprint or Verizon customer with this hardware, so... Dec 09 04:11:11 I'm encountering the audio problem on my TouchPad , gotta reboot. Dec 09 04:11:18 EricBlade1: you should use this usb cable http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SCH-U420-USB-Cable/dp/B00448RKG6/ref=sr_1_32?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1323403590&sr=1-32 Dec 09 04:11:20 * DougReeder waves goodnight Dec 09 04:11:33 * EricBlade1 gets out the VISA Dec 09 04:12:00 for that price, i'm surprised they have them "in stock" Dec 09 04:12:00 idk if it will work with your phone, but i do know that it doesn't really matter Dec 09 04:12:11 lol, wow Dec 09 04:12:22 yeah it doesn't matter, for that price, it'd better have me shooting rainbows out my ass Dec 09 04:12:29 dwc-: if you can get me the hardware, I'll gladly do a very thorough walkthrough Dec 09 04:13:19 and, free shipping! Dec 09 04:13:47 * dwc- has no contacts Dec 09 04:13:48 they deliver w/ a man in a suit, and he kicks you in the balls personally Dec 09 04:17:12 THAT'S IT. I MUST GET THIS. http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM/ref=sr_1_85?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1323403938&sr=1-85 Dec 09 04:17:24 that's goin on the santa wish list Dec 09 04:36:19 Nevermind the fact that it's a digital signal. Dec 09 04:36:25 Clearly you need high-purity copper. Dec 09 04:37:10 don't forget a cable with diamonds in it. Dec 09 04:38:11 because diamonds attract all the sexy electrons? Dec 09 04:38:21 yup Dec 09 04:38:24 diamonds are a datastream's best friend? Dec 09 04:44:48 bling! Dec 09 05:02:42 wow HP retweeted my picture of all my HP gear Dec 09 05:05:13 is there a way to do the same thing that a luna-send is doing, from a terminal? Dec 09 05:05:20 like, can I run the same commands? Dec 09 05:05:47 oh, it's a command on the device, never mind Dec 09 05:07:34 grrr tweetdeck is really annoying now, hate new layout Dec 09 05:08:30 inorite Dec 09 05:08:51 we changed from yellow to blue, just like Stryper did. now i guess it's Evil Tweetdeck Dec 09 05:08:54 oh the other hand, twitter bootstrap==amazing Dec 09 05:09:41 do any of you know if there's a way to use { and } on the pre in xterm? Dec 09 05:10:15 ahh, you got the nice palm case Dec 09 05:10:50 somewhere theres a pic of all my hp stuff Dec 09 05:11:23 * halfhalo has hp frisbee Dec 09 05:12:02 * halfhalo thinks he wins this battle Dec 09 05:12:19 I have one of those somewhere Dec 09 05:12:28 dwc: me? i'm a little confused. this thing fits so tight, there's a pull strap to get it out of the case. that doesn't sound like "nice" Dec 09 05:12:54 yes you. Dec 09 05:13:13 * halfhalo may be crazier than normal due to lack of sleep due to finals Dec 09 05:13:22 I don't have a pull strap on mine... you're talking about the case? not the pouch? Dec 09 05:13:46 it's like a universal pouch, but it's palm branded Dec 09 05:15:05 no, I mean the case Dec 09 05:15:20 loads your phone from the side Dec 09 05:16:14 nope. i'd like something nicer than this pouch. i'm going to stick with my pouch that is a little larger than this stock one Dec 09 05:17:12 I wonder how many HP things I have around here, if I count old computers, old laptops, ancient calculators... Dec 09 05:18:12 dwc-: Probably an asston, like me. Dec 09 05:18:37 * halfhalo has an hp printer and thats about it save for palmy things Dec 09 05:18:57 yeah there's a couple of HP printers in the basement, i wasn't about to go dig those up Dec 09 05:19:02 HP 4M Plus FTW. Dec 09 05:19:07 I have a 200LX... Dec 09 05:19:49 the old laserjets and most of the old printers are gone Dec 09 05:19:49 ok.. any other gsm providers out there that i can have a look at? att won't activate this card, says it doesn't exist.. h2o will, but they want $50/mo to get data .. Dec 09 05:19:50 same as halfhalo here, not usually a big fan of HP stuff Dec 09 05:20:09 there's an HP oscilloscope in the garage... Dec 09 05:20:22 :D Dec 09 05:20:39 that must be REALLY old, huh? Dec 09 05:20:50 * halfhalo has a love/hate relationship with hp Dec 09 05:20:55 well, it's certainly older than when it got split into agilent/hp Dec 09 05:21:12 also: http://yfrog.com/kfrogesj Dec 09 05:21:26 that pick is missing some pre3's and TP's Dec 09 05:22:03 it's also upside down! Dec 09 05:22:13 blame winphone Dec 09 05:24:48 I blame you Dec 09 05:28:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_wireless_communications_service_providers Dec 09 05:38:03 bah. replacement pixi has broken ringer switch. Wife has decided it's time to move on. No more palm phones in the haeffb household after tomorrow. Dec 09 05:40:53 haeffb: bumme Dec 09 05:40:55 r Dec 09 05:41:21 yep Dec 09 05:41:44 she decided she wants a phone that can read QR codes Dec 09 05:41:44 frankenpixi! Dec 09 05:41:50 pixi can read qr codes Dec 09 05:42:02 (whoa, someone who actually uses qr codes?) Dec 09 05:42:26 she doesn't, but thinks she wants to Dec 09 05:43:13 I'm in that boat Dec 09 05:43:33 I don't use QR codes, and for most of their uses, I see no purpose Dec 09 05:43:33 ut I want to be able to Dec 09 05:43:36 but* Dec 09 05:44:33 she is in real estate, and they're starting to add them to listings. So she wants to do QA/QC to make sure the codes work... Dec 09 05:47:37 I also set her up with a twitter account to tweet new listings a few months ago Dec 09 05:47:46 I'm the only follower. Dec 09 05:47:53 so that's working well. Dec 09 05:48:01 she's clearly not doing it well enough Dec 09 05:48:02 sounds like it. Dec 09 05:49:40 hp has a QR reader app Dec 09 05:50:08 there are another 3-4 of them in the catalog/feeds too Dec 09 05:51:54 wow, a att reseller with data rates of 51 cents per MB and international calling rates of $2.00/min. wth? Dec 09 05:55:11 only slightly higher than normal att Dec 09 06:11:51 * EricBlade1 considers if it might even be remotely possible to get a t-mobile compatible board and put it in one of these Dec 09 06:12:59 EricBlade1: put it in one of what? Dec 09 06:13:10 a pre-, +, or 2 Dec 09 06:13:29 an actual 3g compatible t-mobile board out of some other thing Dec 09 06:13:33 no t-mobile boards, you'll only get EDGE at best Dec 09 06:14:03 there is no other thing which has compatible boards Dec 09 06:14:31 maybe now that i have a t-mobile sim that has a $30 unlimited, maybe i should just get a wifi access point and use that heh Dec 09 06:16:20 * dwc- blinks 'uptime' on this pre3 says 2days ... but I know I haven't restarted this in like 2 months Dec 09 06:16:47 * dwc- wonders if the uptime clock rolls over at 43 days Dec 09 06:19:52 Might roll at 13.37 days. Dec 09 06:20:36 s/43/49/ Dec 09 06:20:55 let it roll, baby roll Dec 09 06:21:07 I was thinking of the linux HZ clock that caused rollovers at 497d (2^32 / 100 HZ) Dec 09 06:21:31 but it looks like from the date on dmesg and other stuff, it booted oct 27 ~11am Dec 09 06:21:53 which is 3799020 seconds different, which doesn't look like a 2^32/anything Dec 09 06:22:20 but is just under 44 days Dec 09 06:22:56 does it use a regular binary uptime, or is it some kind of hack script or something Dec 09 06:23:02 oh well, either way... *reboots pre3* Dec 09 06:26:04 Eep. http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/8/2622390/hp-all-hands-webos-decision-tomorrow Dec 09 06:26:19 Also, the Verge be trollin' Dec 09 06:29:24 That, and if I found out about something, it means someone else did and posted it here about 6 hours ago Dec 09 06:31:18 it's been rumored that there's a meeting Dec 09 06:31:39 rwhitby is convinced there's nothing meaningful coming out of it, unless we see a press release first, because of some law Dec 09 06:32:01 I concur with his assessment Dec 09 06:32:10 even if the press release is right when the meeting is :) Dec 09 06:32:40 I mean, yes, he's not wrong Dec 09 06:33:21 guys, I decided to try phnx. Now I'm reading the #unnovioque hashtag stream Dec 09 06:33:35 this is what happens when your twitter client shows you trending topics Dec 09 06:34:57 what's all this talk about 2.2.4... Dec 09 06:36:50 I see a gvoice pre Dec 09 06:36:57 too bad they couldn't all be one app :( Dec 09 06:37:44 yeah that was annoying Dec 09 06:38:40 i'm going to try to get an in-app purchase thing up to provide promo codes, though, so you can buy the other versions at discounts Dec 09 06:39:34 just ooc, is there any reason the pre3/tp version can't run on the pre2 or others? Dec 09 06:39:40 or that the pre one can't run on TP? Dec 09 06:39:57 technically I mean, not necessarily app-cat-acceptance wise Dec 09 06:40:06 the Pre one specifically does not have voicemail or the text-to-speech plugin, because neither are supported on 1.4.5 or 2.0 Dec 09 06:40:34 well, voicemail shuold work on 2.0, but tts doesn't Dec 09 06:41:45 ahh Dec 09 06:42:04 so why couldn't it run on the veer or pre2, as long as it has 2.1? Dec 09 06:42:21 no reason at all, it should show up on the catalog for every phone Dec 09 06:42:53 no, I mean the original tp/pre3 one Dec 09 06:43:04 http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.ericblade.googlevoiceapp shows it as pre3/tp only Dec 09 06:43:38 the text-to-speech doesn't actually -work- on 2.1, but it thinks it does. enyo problem there Dec 09 06:43:47 ahh Dec 09 06:43:51 gotcha Dec 09 06:44:14 the enyo hybrid plugin stuff apparently only works on 2.2+ Dec 09 06:45:24 so... I currently use a pre2 as a day-to-day phone... I have a pre3 I'll probably start using as such at some point Dec 09 06:45:38 so, i'm going to do another one that is "Lite" and will have voicemail capability, with a minimum target of 1.4.5. .. you won't be able to get the voicemail with 1.4.5 unless you've somehow got Flash running on it .. but it will allow people with Meta-2.1 to get it Dec 09 06:46:05 text-to-speech and voicemail isn't high on my priority list Dec 09 06:46:31 another good reason i thought to offer the cheaper one, a lot of people had Voicemail as a major requirement for it .. but some people couldn't care less Dec 09 06:46:42 so I should be ok with just the pre version, it sounds like Dec 09 06:51:36 oh... do these work with 2-factor auth? Dec 09 06:51:52 google voice does not work with 2-factor Dec 09 06:52:27 not even with an application-specific password? Dec 09 06:52:37 i believe it does that way yes Dec 09 06:52:58 but i've never tried it. i've asked some questions about that, but i don't want to convert my main or test account over, and then be stuck. can you undo 2-factor? Dec 09 06:53:12 yes Dec 09 06:53:32 I converted my secondary account first Dec 09 06:53:34 well, that's all i need to know then to actually work on developing it :) Dec 09 06:53:38 including undoing it Dec 09 06:53:44 before I risked my primary :) Dec 09 06:53:48 i was afraid that if i turned it on, i wouldn't be able to turn it off, and then i'd be fuct Dec 09 06:54:38 (gauth from the catalog works as an authenticator) Dec 09 06:54:51 i'll investigate wether that works then over the next few days, with the app passwords, Dec 09 06:55:12 well, I might be able to tell you that in a sec Dec 09 06:55:18 yeah i found that a few days ago.. i've asked several people about that, they all said they didn't know of any webos authenticator's.. and i didn't want to write that Dec 09 06:57:10 I suppose since it's an app-specific pw, I don't even need to do my typical code reading... Dec 09 06:57:30 whoa, someone is receiving a 2.2.4 webOS update on their pre2 Dec 09 06:57:37 so anyway IF it doesn't require a massive overhaul to how i communicate with google voice, and the regular authentication works, then that might eliminate the annoyance of having to login twice on the touchpad, and we might be able to support 2-factor there. It's my understanding that it may be a bit more difficult to do on Pre's, though, as the Enyo WebView doesn't work on Pre3 even Dec 09 06:57:48 summatusmentis: yeah, i read that. screenshots are .. lacking though Dec 09 06:57:52 summatusmentis: lies! Dec 09 06:58:08 EricBlade1: http://yfrog.com/h6tv4wp doesn't qualify? Dec 09 06:58:38 that's not something that i saw in the original post Dec 09 06:58:56 that's just the link rwhitby retweeted Dec 09 06:59:19 EricBlade1: seems to work with an app sspecific pw Dec 09 06:59:30 at least I can log in Dec 09 06:59:33 dwc-: via gvoice app, or via the website? Dec 09 06:59:42 gvoice app Dec 09 06:59:48 good good Dec 09 06:59:59 I suspect if you're doing a full login to the website (I bought the pre version) you would use your normal master pw + PIN Dec 09 07:00:09 if you can tap an unread message and it marks it as new, then it should all work Dec 09 07:00:31 where's mark as new :) Dec 09 07:00:45 just tap it in the index view Dec 09 07:00:59 er, *marks it as read* not as new Dec 09 07:01:10 oh. I only have old ones in here, hold Dec 09 07:01:25 as much as i've used the "mark as unread" function, i've never put it in the app, because i only use it to test things in the app Dec 09 07:01:51 so... WHO is getting that 2.2.4 update.. and from where... and is it from a carrier? Dec 09 07:02:14 EricBlade1: I mean, the screenshot is in spanish Dec 09 07:02:26 simyo is a euro company Dec 09 07:02:36 I see de, fr, es for them Dec 09 07:02:41 europe, so far Dec 09 07:02:59 not sure who @capape is Dec 09 07:03:04 but es would make sense Dec 09 07:03:25 geez, i knew i recognized it, but i wasn't entirely certain it was Spanish vs. Portuguese (do they have Portuguese pres?) ... good god my head needs to get over this cold Dec 09 07:03:35 EricBlade1: hmm, I tapped it, gv on the web side doesn't seem to have marked it as read... Dec 09 07:03:51 hit "Reload Inbox" and see if it shows up as new again Dec 09 07:04:02 nfc if portugal has pres Dec 09 07:04:17 it is spanish Dec 09 07:04:26 he pointed rwhitby to ps.palmws.com about 15 minutes Dec 09 07:04:28 ago* Dec 09 07:04:36 yeah it is espanol Dec 09 07:04:43 dwc-: yes, and given your info about simyo, probably Spain Dec 09 07:04:43 I remember enough from HS to tell the diff Dec 09 07:04:57 * summatusmentis was a spanish major in undergrad Dec 09 07:05:14 lol my dog just started barking like crazy. i yelled at him. he started barking very quietly. Dec 09 07:05:24 his blog is about basketball and computer science Dec 09 07:06:32 yep, doesn't seem to be marking as read Dec 09 07:07:01 open app -> click on msg -> read message -> close app, open app -> new message Dec 09 07:07:24 open app -> click on msg -> read message -> back to index -> reload index -> new message Dec 09 07:07:24 dammit. ok i'll see if i can fix that Dec 09 07:07:43 and it's saving my one-time password, so this works out Dec 09 07:08:33 is there a way to just exit prefs? swiping backwards takes me out, but also cardviews the app Dec 09 07:08:46 there should be an ok button at the bottom Dec 09 07:09:22 might not be fitting Dec 09 07:09:30 it fits on my pre- and + Dec 09 07:09:32 yea, I have notifications Dec 09 07:09:37 I swiped those away and now I can see it Dec 09 07:10:05 my - says that i have new application updates .. but there aren't any Dec 09 07:10:54 well maybe they'll get us some new updates before the big dealieo in 11 hrs Dec 09 07:12:07 anyways, liking the app so far Dec 09 07:13:02 yay :) Dec 09 07:13:58 I'll play with it more later Dec 09 07:14:08 * dwc- goes to clean up Dec 09 07:14:51 I'm sure you'll hear from me with some sort of possibly-nitpicky feedback ;) Dec 09 07:15:51 That's what I like, is feedback from people that aren't leaving me reviews that say "I CAN'T MAKE VOICE CALLS" Dec 09 07:16:38 EricBlade1: so, I tried gvoice, an dI CAN'T MAKE VOICE CALLS Dec 09 07:17:15 but, armed with the knowledge that I can undo the 2-factor, I will hopefully be able to at least fix it so the app passcode works right, and maybe get it to work for reals. might take me a few days, though, i've got regular work to do this weekend, and i'm possibly getting a really nice contract for an upcoming video game Dec 09 07:23:35 someone just tweeted Downloading #webOS 2.2.4 for unlocked pre2 in Belarus Dec 09 07:24:06 this could make there being a GVoice Lite a moot point Dec 09 07:25:17 we have a lot of people feeling the pessimism on twitter right now though Dec 09 07:26:03 maybe they're blasting out 2.2.4 and then 3.0.5, and leaving a note on the blog "WE'RE BACK BITCHES" Dec 09 07:27:07 could also go the other way, putting out 2.2.4 and 3.0.5 and then being like "no moar, evar" Dec 09 07:27:22 i'm trying to be positive. it's really difficult for me. Dec 09 07:27:29 STOP TEARING ME DOWN Dec 09 07:27:33 and the veer gets screwed out of an update Dec 09 07:27:33 just sayin' Dec 09 07:27:55 presumably the veer would get 2.2.4? Dec 09 07:28:08 yeah Dec 09 07:28:38 how is that "screwed out of an update"? Dec 09 07:29:06 what exactly is the Veer, in relation to the Pre series? Dec 09 07:29:27 what are you asking? Dec 09 07:30:02 is it a Pre3 crammed into a Pixi case? Dec 09 07:30:05 veer screwed out of the updates? NEVER Dec 09 07:30:16 no Dec 09 07:30:22 it's a slider phone Dec 09 07:30:34 so it's a .. Pre2 with a Pixi display? Dec 09 07:30:35 but in some ways, it amounts to a 2nd gen pixi Dec 09 07:30:39 800mhz Dec 09 07:30:39 obv ericblade needs a veer and a pixi to go with his - + and 2 Dec 09 07:30:59 I'm trying to decide what my next phone is gonna be Dec 09 07:31:01 dwc-: well, of course. i would then have the complete set. i can't see getting a pixi, though, unless i can get service on it Dec 09 07:31:20 who's your carrier Dec 09 07:31:27 i have a t-mobile right now Dec 09 07:31:40 * dwc- pulls up system updates on his pre2 Dec 09 07:31:52 nothing for me Dec 09 07:32:10 me neither Dec 09 07:32:38 i have a note that says "Be sure to try out the new features in HP webOS 2.1." .. but doesn't tell me what those are. Dec 09 07:32:45 or, were, since they're obviously not new anymore. Dec 09 07:33:38 hmmm, a couple more people reporting in on the forums Dec 09 07:33:46 hello Dec 09 07:33:56 EU-unlocked Dec 09 07:34:53 and are these provided by the carriers, or by Hp Dec 09 07:35:09 I believe sold by carriers Dec 09 07:35:16 i mean the updates Dec 09 07:35:40 any news ? Dec 09 07:35:56 webOS 2.2.4 is apparently going live for Pre2's Dec 09 07:36:12 typically, I think updates come from the mfr, but are approved by the carriers Dec 09 07:36:13 wooow Dec 09 07:36:17 i have to chechk Dec 09 07:36:20 check Dec 09 07:36:38 i have eu-unlocked Dec 09 07:37:24 nothing new Dec 09 07:37:53 and this will appeat in "system updates" ? Dec 09 07:37:57 * dwc- goes to stomp on the update daemon Dec 09 07:38:05 don't kick it too hard Dec 09 07:38:11 HP's stuff is fragile Dec 09 07:38:55 that will be great Dec 09 07:39:32 i need to have skype for my work Dec 09 07:39:46 :| Dec 09 07:40:02 oh yea, I need to re-test if the pre3 skype works on the pre2 now Dec 09 07:40:23 dwc do you have update for pre2 ? Dec 09 07:40:27 no Dec 09 07:40:40 this waiting is terrible Dec 09 07:41:17 like a samsung on galaxy tab Dec 09 07:41:40 they are rolling update to android 2.3 Dec 09 07:41:41 from may Dec 09 07:41:50 a I stil have no update Dec 09 07:41:55 *and Dec 09 07:44:01 you might have webOS 2.3 before you have Android 2.3 Dec 09 07:44:41 EricBlade lol Dec 09 07:45:16 but this galaxy tab I have from my work Dec 09 07:45:18 wonder if there's a way to get back into this Pre+ without putting an active sim in it Dec 09 07:45:30 where I'm ending right now Dec 09 07:51:32 i was going to say wth is chuq awake at this hour for, and then realized it's not even midnight at Palm yet Dec 09 07:53:50 what's chuq saying Dec 09 07:54:36 he just RT'd one of his photography forums messages Dec 09 07:56:32 oh, nothing webos related, darn Dec 09 07:57:11 I wish precentral's forum software kept better track of which messages you've actually not read Dec 09 07:57:33 I've no idea what page of the veer 2.2.x thread I was on last Dec 09 07:58:57 oh wow the VKB patch on my pre+ survived the full erase Dec 09 08:02:10 Maybe we're coming up to "alright, we are dead serious, we are not supporting phones anymore". Dec 09 08:05:08 ooh wow, several full erases and doctors and my pre- still has the old owners email address.. must be stored in the modem Dec 09 08:09:04 "webOS 2.2.4 on Pre 2 may have Skype, Bluetooth MAP, and encrypted data partitions" Dec 09 08:53:58 EricBlade do you have Pre2 too ? Dec 09 08:54:06 yea just got one Dec 09 08:54:26 wish that update will be for all Dec 09 08:54:27 but Dec 09 08:54:40 if they pust update, it have to be webos doctor Dec 09 08:54:48 for that Dec 09 08:55:02 wow a non-activated phone does not have access to the network time data Dec 09 08:55:06 am I right ? Dec 09 08:55:25 i'm sure webos-internals would come up with something Dec 09 08:55:47 network time = carrier network time Dec 09 08:56:05 or you have sim in your non activated phone ? Dec 09 08:56:13 yeah i'm used to cdma phones that keep the clock within like 1ms at all times, even if they aren't activated Dec 09 08:56:23 or 10ms or something like that Dec 09 08:56:50 my pre+ doesn't have an activated sim card right now, and it's off by 4 minutes. it's only been about 10 minutes since i powered it on Dec 09 08:59:49 EricBlade which kernel do you have on pre2 ? Dec 09 08:59:51 now Dec 09 08:59:57 i think i put uber on it Dec 09 09:00:13 i tried them all, but had various problems with the others Dec 09 09:00:22 I think if update shows on uber Dec 09 09:00:31 i will try to uninstall it Dec 09 09:26:30 I'm mad and crazy, I'm checking my Pre2 every 10 minutes :))) Dec 09 09:28:21 got it :D Dec 09 09:39:58 i no get :( Dec 09 09:40:03 Y U NO SEND ME UPDATE HP Dec 09 09:42:52 oh god one of my 90 open tabs has decided to start playing music Dec 09 09:42:58 i can't figure out which one it is Dec 09 09:48:17 EricBlade sometime youtube starts video play again Dec 09 09:48:38 yeah i downloaded an update to Opera, so when it installed, it refreshed all my pages Dec 09 09:49:00 i eventually found it. took a while. they need to put a toggleable "is playing media" flag on the tabs Dec 09 09:49:56 this sucks Dec 09 09:50:18 it updated only my 2.1.0 Dec 09 09:50:37 i have still 2.1.0 Dec 09 09:50:42 :/ Dec 09 09:50:45 try again? Dec 09 09:50:51 wtf Dec 09 09:51:00 no change Dec 09 09:54:06 i have uninstalled all patches and apps Dec 09 09:54:16 after that I was ran update Dec 09 09:54:28 what's this Dec 09 09:55:32 i will try webos doctor if nothing appear today Dec 09 10:16:08 EricBlade lol, they have updated me webOS 2.1.0 with old google maps icon Dec 09 10:16:34 yeah one of the first posts i saw about it said that it took two tries for the guy to get it Dec 09 10:17:01 ah so Dec 09 10:17:21 maybe they detected patched webos or something Dec 09 10:18:05 i will try turn off dev mode Dec 09 12:01:33 i wish there was a way to set alarms with calendar events Dec 09 12:01:40 the "beep beep" reminder is useless Dec 09 12:33:07 EricBlade any update news from you? Dec 09 13:13:41 i wish there was a way to truly customize alarms / calendar events, i.e. ensure volume is ALWAYS on and ALWAYS max volume. for this, the alarms is useless and i use an old fashioned alarm clock. Dec 09 16:03:58 * EricBlade1 wakes up briefly Dec 09 16:04:04 * EricBlade1 checks for webos updates Dec 09 16:12:44 How long before the meeting? Dec 09 16:13:01 2.5hrs Dec 09 16:13:03 2.5 horus Dec 09 16:13:19 :( Dec 09 16:13:23 a looong 2.5 if I do say so Dec 09 16:13:53 I would buy a iPhone 4s today but thought i would wait until after today :p JUST in case... Dec 09 16:14:07 i just woke up after only 3 hrs of sleep. that never happens unless i've been drinking heavily the night before Dec 09 16:15:02 this 2.2.4 update is supposed to enable touchpad text sharing Dec 09 16:15:05 which is neat Dec 09 16:15:08 yes it si Dec 09 16:15:10 is* Dec 09 16:15:20 but i don't have it. not on my gsm, nor my cdma Dec 09 16:15:47 b/c i live in los americanos norte Dec 09 16:16:05 screw the touchpad alarms Dec 09 16:16:33 fxspec06: I haven't seen the update either, but it's possible we'll see a meta-doctor eventually Dec 09 16:16:41 i wish i had the sedios battery in a more compact format.. Dec 09 16:17:02 i'd pay $100 for a good 2500mah battery that fits in the slim form factor Dec 09 16:17:54 my alarm is set to play "Five Minutes Alone" at 11am. it goes "beep" at 11:12am. wth? Dec 09 16:20:33 sounds like it played "twelve minutes of silence" Dec 09 16:23:00 and then ended wtih a beep Dec 09 16:24:25 i don't have that song, though. closest thing i have is .. The Misinterpretation of Silence and it's Disastrous Consequences .. which is .. 1:06 .. or the remix version of it, which is 0:39 Dec 09 16:57:28 hmm. now that my alarm notifications have failed to go off on two touchpads, i note that the system sounds on both are in the "fuzzy am radio sound" mode, and that neither one of them will play any audio from themselves, or via streaming. Dec 09 17:11:21 hp system update servers responding too long Dec 09 17:11:30 maybe overload :) Dec 09 17:12:07 Nothin for me :( Dec 09 17:14:00 me too Dec 09 17:14:08 hotdp you have eu version ? Dec 09 17:19:28 yer Dec 09 17:19:49 My friend got it though Dec 09 17:19:54 hmm Dec 09 17:20:07 for me shows update but only for 2.1.0 Dec 09 17:20:08 :)))) Dec 09 17:20:18 i look at it wtf ? Dec 09 17:20:27 after that I have same 2.1.0 Dec 09 17:20:35 and no further update Dec 09 17:31:12 * dwc- figures in a worst case he can always EU-ify his pre2 and try to get the update that way Dec 09 17:36:14 should i start drinking now Dec 09 17:43:39 fxspec06, sure. call it mourning(HP kills it) or celebrating(hp sells webos) Dec 09 17:45:11 i wonder what webos tastes like. what is the flavor of webos Dec 09 17:45:30 :p Dec 09 17:45:33 peppermint? sweet? black licorice? Dec 09 17:45:47 s/webos/webOS Dec 09 17:45:48 unicorn farts Dec 09 17:46:12 damn. and apple has the only unicorns on the planet Dec 09 17:48:04 you should wait for meeting Dec 09 17:48:19 that way if there's an press release/investor call, you can make it a drinking game Dec 09 17:48:35 but a 45-minute headstart is fine Dec 09 17:49:30 I'm guessing if I stick around here for long enough I'll find out the results of that meeting as soon as possible =) Dec 09 17:50:52 mebbe so Dec 09 18:00:36 ,me waves hello Dec 09 18:03:45 hello Dec 09 18:10:53 Hey,. it's 11 EST, right? Dec 09 18:11:06 wrong. it's 1:06 EST Dec 09 18:14:34 LOL Dec 09 18:14:36 yep Dec 09 18:14:45 1:06 PST Dec 09 18:14:49 PDT? Dec 09 18:14:54 PWT? Dec 09 18:14:56 hahahaha Dec 09 18:15:02 how you say winter time? Dec 09 18:15:28 ? Dec 09 18:15:46 drugs are bad Dec 09 18:16:05 yeh... Dec 09 18:16:25 what did you do with ceasar Dec 09 18:16:40 no, really, at what time was the famous all hands webos meeting to be? 1pm pacific? Dec 09 18:16:50 1030 Dec 09 18:16:52 am Dec 09 18:17:19 i think i mis-read your original statement / question.. Dec 09 18:17:37 but also i believe it was originally worded incorrectly Dec 09 18:17:47 basically there's t-minus 17 minutes to the call Dec 09 18:18:18 the idea is that I thought it was at 12pm local (Mexico) time :) Dec 09 18:18:36 winter time is "standard" time Dec 09 18:18:44 should I stay here and wait for the news or drop it and go play Zelda? Dec 09 18:18:49 even though it's active less time than the "daylight" time Dec 09 18:19:11 dwc-, Ah, you're right, "Daylight" time is "summer" time, right? (CST vs CDT)? Dec 09 18:19:15 NuttyBunny: if you believe there will be news Dec 09 18:19:23 stay... Dec 09 18:19:26 yes Dec 09 18:19:51 winter time? i don't really know what that is Dec 09 18:20:23 "standard" time vs daylight savings time (summer) Dec 09 18:20:37 They call it like that over here summer time (horario de verano) and winter time (horario de invierno) Dec 09 18:20:40 aha Dec 09 18:20:58 yeah okay i think i'm grasping that concept now. 23 years old and it still confuses me Dec 09 18:21:34 "we need to save daylight during the summer because it rises wayy earlier" blah blah Dec 09 18:21:44 i can never remember if DST is on during the winter or during the summer Dec 09 18:22:13 EricBlade: how about this (correct me if i'm wrong) Dec 09 18:22:26 why would you need to save daylight in the winter when there is no daylight to save Dec 09 18:22:30 google says the next DST for us is March 11 to Nov 4 Dec 09 18:22:31 o_O Dec 09 18:23:00 We do it from the 1st april sunday to the last august sunday :S Dec 09 18:23:23 well, you could also look at it as conserving the amount of daylight that is available, since there is so little Dec 09 18:23:36 nah. you're looking at it wrong Dec 09 18:23:52 just think if we never pushed the clocks forward in the summer Dec 09 18:23:54 i realize that, i was just explaining why i could never remember it Dec 09 18:24:06 the day would end at like 10 - 11p Dec 09 18:24:11 and start at 8a Dec 09 18:24:13 @webosinternals says: T-15 and counting ... following @verge for the press release ... guess I'll go play zelda with wirc on :) Dec 09 18:24:24 so we need to "SAVE" that daylight Dec 09 18:24:30 instead of letting it go to waste Dec 09 18:24:34 now i'll remember that even when i'm like 99 and have horrific alzheimers and can't even remember my own name, i'll still remember that DST is on during the summer Dec 09 18:24:34 * fxspec06 idk Dec 09 18:24:53 or.. DST is on during.. the.. whatever the hell you call it Dec 09 18:26:05 for example: you'd think it'd be WST (webos savings time) right now, but it's not. in order to save webos, there must first be a webos to save Dec 09 18:26:29 hahahaha Dec 09 18:26:34 good one :) Dec 09 18:28:04 and with NuttyBunny here, the gang's all here Dec 09 18:28:29 close. i don't see Tibfib_, halfhalo, or haeffb Dec 09 18:28:34 and rwhitby is sleeping Dec 09 18:28:58 everyone present for the (fake) meeting say i Dec 09 18:30:25 he's awake, at least on twitter Dec 09 18:31:41 * scoutcamper wishes someone would livestream the meeting Dec 09 18:31:44 I read somewhere that Rod's not the only one that posts with the @webosinternals twitter account. I may be wrong tho Dec 09 18:32:07 scoutcamper: yep, same here :S Dec 09 18:32:07 i was lead to believe he was not the only one Dec 09 18:32:21 oh it's 2 mins before Dec 09 18:32:26 someone go to hp press page Dec 09 18:32:30 and hit refresh multiple times Dec 09 18:33:09 i have been Dec 09 18:33:11 nothing Dec 09 18:33:12 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/index.html (nothing for today, right now) Dec 09 18:33:14 nothing on bizwire yet Dec 09 18:34:11 oh wait did i screw up the est to pdt translation? i thought it was 3 hrs Dec 09 18:34:16 it is 3 hours Dec 09 18:34:21 well... Dec 09 18:34:24 est to pst is 3 hrs Dec 09 18:34:29 est to pdt isn't :P Dec 09 18:34:38 right it is Dec 09 18:34:50 so it's 1030a in palm hq right now Dec 09 18:34:54 correct Dec 09 18:35:18 alright, so... here we go Dec 09 18:35:20 and so it begins ... Dec 09 18:35:26 1:29pm and 1:30 news posted on biz wire, but nothing for hp Dec 09 18:35:27 ... or maybe so it ends Dec 09 18:35:46 if it's a sale, the meeting would be pushed back Dec 09 18:36:43 its getting opensourced Dec 09 18:36:44 maybe they're still filing into the conference room Dec 09 18:36:51 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/111209xa.html Dec 09 18:36:56 or some of it is Dec 09 18:37:08 whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat Dec 09 18:37:10 webos is going open source. Dec 09 18:37:19 * dwc- looks for the pigs flying Dec 09 18:37:30 so when do we find out mire? Dec 09 18:37:30 wrea, that link is broken Dec 09 18:37:32 What on god's green earth? Dec 09 18:37:34 *more* Dec 09 18:37:37 scoutcamper: works for ME Dec 09 18:37:39 eh? Dec 09 18:37:49 holy Dec 09 18:37:52 fucking shit Dec 09 18:37:54 "Sorry, we can't find that page. Dec 09 18:37:54 The page you are looking for is no longer available or has been moved." Dec 09 18:38:00 i've got it Dec 09 18:38:02 i'll save it Dec 09 18:38:04 http://pastebin.com/emFsyuuN Dec 09 18:38:04 who's got a host Dec 09 18:38:06 copied for you Dec 09 18:38:12 dude Dec 09 18:38:13 the operating principles look good to me Dec 09 18:38:44 this comes as quite a shock Dec 09 18:38:45 thanks for the oastebin Dec 09 18:38:47 Wow. Dec 09 18:38:49 so hp will be a steward and let others use it... Dec 09 18:38:51 pastebin* Dec 09 18:38:55 enyo open source Dec 09 18:38:56 Wasnt quite expecting this Dec 09 18:38:57 one here too http://pastebin.com/3UWmurgg Dec 09 18:38:58 win Dec 09 18:39:04 not just enyo Dec 09 18:39:08 the whole thing Dec 09 18:39:18 so.. where are we going to get hardware? Dec 09 18:39:19 EricBlade: mine's better :D Dec 09 18:39:21 not i can have my webos toaster Dec 09 18:39:25 no enyo in the near future... like "in the coming months" Dec 09 18:39:25 now* Dec 09 18:39:26 hahah... hardware? you wish Dec 09 18:39:59 they should at least make one final hardware run, for the touchpad go :D Dec 09 18:40:00 this is just.. weird. Dec 09 18:40:19 anyone who even thought this was a likely possibility at this point in time, raise your hand Dec 09 18:40:23 why would they contribute to it but not use it?` Dec 09 18:40:25 I don Dec 09 18:40:30 Not so weird. lets them off the hook for updates. Dec 09 18:40:32 I don't understand that part Dec 09 18:40:34 who said they won't use it? Dec 09 18:40:54 so wait Dec 09 18:41:02 let me just say this again: wow Dec 09 18:41:06 This was not the main posibility, but was one of them Dec 09 18:41:10 so, are we then hoping that "because it's open source and android did so well, now someone else will want to?" Dec 09 18:41:11 I thought they were going to go andorid?` Dec 09 18:41:28 i am... gabberflasted Dec 09 18:41:45 This is actually good. Now we may put webOS ON ANDROID DEVICES!!! Dec 09 18:42:13 well, sure, we can do it. but that's not going to get us any new users Dec 09 18:42:24 so how are updates going to work? Dec 09 18:42:28 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/9/2623943/webos-being-open-sourced-says-hp Dec 09 18:42:36 * NuttyBunny_Pre3 compiles webOS and sticks it in his xperia mini pro Dec 09 18:42:38 i suppose we'll still get paid, right? Dec 09 18:42:45 do palm people keep their jobs? Dec 09 18:42:59 EricBlade: Yep, that's the missing part, the new users :S Dec 09 18:43:15 i might be able to get webOS on my Epic now. Dec 09 18:43:16 hmmmm Dec 09 18:43:17 don't be sticking webOS where it don't belong, nutty Dec 09 18:43:22 presumably, HP wil vastly reduce spending on webOS Dec 09 18:43:32 considering HP already took the writedown, this probably 'costs' them little Dec 09 18:43:37 new users? whata bout the old users taht have already left Dec 09 18:43:50 this means Dec 09 18:43:52 HTC webos Dec 09 18:43:54 SAMSUNG webos Dec 09 18:44:00 MOTOROLA webos Dec 09 18:44:01 As in, GBU people will be eassigned or laid off. Dec 09 18:44:01 IF you can get it working on the hardware Dec 09 18:44:29 note issues with android on misc hardware Dec 09 18:44:33 i think enyo just needs webkit/v8... i think it could be adapted to android w/o even rooting it, much less a new image Dec 09 18:45:18 node.js might be a little more tricky, but that should work on anything that can say run CM7/9 Dec 09 18:45:41 tl;dr webos can be ported to android Dec 09 18:46:53 https://twitter.com/#!/reckless/status/145211266997297152 Dec 09 18:46:58 webos is dead. << Dec 09 18:47:27 long live webos(...?) Dec 09 18:48:03 i'm .. still confused. Dec 09 18:48:16 how am i supposed to feel about this? Dec 09 18:48:20 Good thing I got my webOS zonbie stickers from Ben :D Dec 09 18:48:20 * dwc- stops being shocked and gets back to doing his job Dec 09 18:48:25 Hmm, now I can compile webOS for a netbook. Dec 09 18:48:33 *palm* is dead, but webos has a future Dec 09 18:48:39 DougReeder: you'll need to get some mouse support Dec 09 18:48:44 not hard Dec 09 18:48:52 palm may still have jobs Dec 09 18:48:58 there's still work to be done, and maintain Dec 09 18:49:11 palm could take the source code and start developing it, then sell it back to HP Dec 09 18:49:31 could become a business model Dec 09 18:49:33 Don't they make touchscreen netbooks? Dec 09 18:49:38 just don't let intel touch governance Dec 09 18:49:46 DougReeder: hmm. probably someone does Dec 09 18:50:01 (meego: where maemo went to die) Dec 09 18:50:37 (* - n9, from what i heard, was actually closer to maemo 6 than meego) Dec 09 18:50:59 dougreader - yeah. w/o an ips screen they're kinda crappy tho Dec 09 18:51:24 ips screen? Dec 09 18:51:31 like ipad, touchpad, etc Dec 09 18:51:41 regular lcd's can't be viewed off-angle Dec 09 18:52:41 I just don't see how this is going to be beneficial to HP, other than technically they aren't totally abandoning us and killing it ... unless .. they are already working with other people to build hardware. Dec 09 18:53:23 it leaset it's not dead. the OS that would never die. zombieOS... Dec 09 18:53:25 wow Dec 09 18:53:27 this Dec 09 18:53:28 Opensource... Dec 09 18:53:29 is awesome Dec 09 18:53:30 huh Dec 09 18:53:31 webos is oss now Dec 09 18:53:34 that's something Dec 09 18:55:07 ok, SO, I guess we need to figure out what's the best way to get Enyo operating on another platform. I don't know if it's Jo or some other way, or what Dec 09 18:55:50 they say "HP will be an active participant and investor in the project"... but no clue in there about what they want to do with it Dec 09 18:56:25 printers, still? Dec 09 18:56:27 and... who wants to volunteer to merge webOS and ICS .. lol Dec 09 18:56:30 splashtop Dec 09 18:57:13 wow Dec 09 18:57:25 dude this is awesome. this is so cool Dec 09 18:57:39 so freaking awesome Dec 09 18:57:44 i mean really, there was NO life Dec 09 18:57:45 and now Dec 09 18:57:48 and now?!??!?! Dec 09 18:57:50 AND NOW Dec 09 18:58:01 LET THERE BE WEBOS Dec 09 18:58:07 at least at a minimum it lets webos live on for people that still use it Dec 09 18:58:21 instead of selling it to another company that does nothing with it. Dec 09 18:59:00 Open sourced? cool Dec 09 18:59:05 The best ARM touchscreen netbook I can find in a quick search is http://www.ecrater.com/p/11193522/8inch-freescale-mx515-arm-cortex Dec 09 18:59:18 Anyone know a better one? Dec 09 19:00:52 Soo... I wonder if this means spreading onto other devices. Dec 09 19:01:11 webos is open sourced. Dec 09 19:01:20 Sorry, the diconnect and new channel buttons in wirc are too close Dec 09 19:01:23 this means that: anyone can sell hardware with webos on it Dec 09 19:01:32 yes.. but -will- anyone Dec 09 19:01:37 it doesn't matter Dec 09 19:01:50 that depends on if you want new users or not Dec 09 19:01:50 webos will become a great operating system. Dec 09 19:02:01 I can honestly say I didn't see this coming Dec 09 19:02:10 i'm 99.9% sure that there are millions of ppl that see value with webos Dec 09 19:02:18 and millions of ppl who will work on it Dec 09 19:02:32 the precentral says hp'll use it's patents to defend webos Dec 09 19:02:37 *article Dec 09 19:02:59 halfhalo: this reminds me of the Guns N' Roses concert I was at last week. I was just happily recording, singing, jamming along with the music, and then out of nowhere, some guy who went crowd surfing's head smashes me from behind. Except this doesn't hurt. Dec 09 19:04:23 so basically anyone who wants to put webos on devices can do that Dec 09 19:04:35 man Dec 09 19:05:12 this is like zombies somehow reversing their genetic defects to become human superheroes Dec 09 19:07:41 it's a lot easier when the superheroes just become zombies Dec 09 19:08:07 I wonder if this means they couldn't find a buyer for webos Dec 09 19:08:13 So is everyone excited about the WebOS news?! Dec 09 19:08:15 looks like the meeting is over, mcnulty, adora, palm, tweeting Dec 09 19:08:19 pretty sure that's what it means Dec 09 19:08:36 you think they don't have phones at the meeting? Dec 09 19:09:04 i doubt that everyone would simultaneously start tweeting during a meeting Dec 09 19:09:09 we are talking about a group of professionals here Dec 09 19:10:38 It sure levels the playing field. And the preware guys are in a golden pos. Dec 09 19:10:38 ... Dec 09 19:14:07 yah kuddos to preware folks. Their playing field just got a lot more fun :) Dec 09 19:14:27 Now, everybody go to the system updates app! Dec 09 19:15:23 aww, I'm still up to date :( Dec 09 19:15:31 wow can you imagine Dec 09 19:15:59 what the guys like sconix, rwhitby, unixpsycho, and all the other hb devs can do w/ webos Dec 09 19:16:05 all the cool features Dec 09 19:16:15 i'm still up to date too NuttyBunny Dec 09 19:16:19 i mean they don't get paid for their work and nobody expects them too. Dec 09 19:16:43 well that came out wrong too. but like people that do it for fun. people who want features can just put features in. Dec 09 19:17:15 theoretically, this means we can advance towards having all the things that we need to make seriously competitive apps on a seriously competitive platform. Dec 09 19:17:23 ^^^^^^^^^ Dec 09 19:17:25 assuming that the app catalog isn't going buh-bye Dec 09 19:17:31 yes yes yes yes yes Dec 09 19:17:59 and we can do it at a ridiculous rate, if the right people are handling it Dec 09 19:18:02 meg whitman, i bow down to your superiority. apparently running ebay for ages somehow made her a genius Dec 09 19:18:55 fxspec06: ebay didn't just explode from a half-dozen person operation into what it is today just because it was there. timing DID help, but it wasn't just that. Dec 09 19:19:52 ENYO will be released at a later date. I think that will be very interesting. we could release our aps aas browser apps maybe? Dec 09 19:19:54 also Dec 09 19:19:58 the reverse is true Dec 09 19:19:58 too Dec 09 19:20:12 what about this: android can be modified to be more like webos Dec 09 19:20:30 i thought that's what they were doing anyway Dec 09 19:20:42 but now it can be exactly like it Dec 09 19:20:47 while still being android. Dec 09 19:20:48 idk Dec 09 19:21:16 my tiny brain can't correctly analyze this right now Dec 09 19:21:22 i have a feeling that we can't just take a big chunk of webOS and stick it in Android. or vice versa. Dec 09 19:21:33 maybe, but i'm going to doubt it for now Dec 09 19:32:13 so, open source, eh Dec 09 19:32:24 my gf said to me yesterday "well, if they're just going to kill webos, then why don't you hook up with a few other developers, and buy it from them?" .. i had to explain that Palm cost HP over a -billion- dollars, i doubt they'd let us buy it for the change in our couches. Dec 09 19:33:17 So now my Touchpad is a proper open source hack machine, I like it xD Dec 09 19:33:26 ^ Dec 09 19:33:31 this Dec 09 19:33:43 As long as there's a lonely coder in a basement somewhere Dec 09 19:33:47 I'm still supported xD Dec 09 19:33:53 Albeit slowly :D Dec 09 19:34:01 and lonely coders are a dime a dozen! Dec 09 19:34:04 :P Dec 09 19:34:08 :D Dec 09 19:34:39 Time to go cook some food Dec 09 19:34:41 ciao! Dec 09 19:35:01 i guess im trying to figure out how HP is going to make any money out of this. especially that they've not mentioned hardware Dec 09 19:35:12 HP claims they're going to keep leading the project which is awesome. we've been suggesting OSS of this stuff for a while but I guess Leo put them in a place where it makes financial sense Dec 09 19:35:15 not that im complaining about open source though Dec 09 19:35:24 Guest15225: well they do get a cut from the app store. Dec 09 19:35:30 true Dec 09 19:35:34 Guest15225: they still need an OS for their printers and things, why not an OSS-based Linux OS that is semi popular Dec 09 19:35:48 Im totally for webOS and OSS Dec 09 19:35:52 i imagine, that if anyone wants to put it on their hardware, and get support doing it, they'll get money there Dec 09 19:36:04 ie they can privately develop their own OS for things Dec 09 19:36:08 or they can open it up Dec 09 19:36:09 yeah, i guess its just way early to understand the monetary thing right now Dec 09 19:36:33 either way they spend the resources, if open they get a lot more adoption and a lot more resources Dec 09 19:36:43 yeah it really is too early Dec 09 19:37:01 kinda reminds me of Meego Dec 09 19:37:07 can't be a whole lot of money Dec 09 19:37:18 meego never had the potential webos has Dec 09 19:37:28 Oh i agree, but the situation feels similar Dec 09 19:37:32 all the app developers here can look at how much they get, and halve it, and that's HP's share of app catalog monies Dec 09 19:37:46 they only get 30% Dec 09 19:37:49 yeah except Meego isnt like webos, hp's never gonna put windows on a printer Dec 09 19:37:50 exactly Dec 09 19:37:51 yeah Dec 09 19:38:04 70/30 is rounding off from 66/33 Dec 09 19:38:06 destinal: i didnt mean the os itself, i meant the situation Dec 09 19:38:31 right I mean HP wont abandon webos for windows to do the same thing like nokia did Dec 09 19:38:38 ah, now i see Dec 09 19:38:41 agree Dec 09 19:39:00 of course HP already is in bed with MS Dec 09 19:39:02 ;) Dec 09 19:39:19 right, more that they can't, windows won't do what they want Dec 09 19:39:23 but that doesnt mean that webOS existing is mutually exclusive Dec 09 19:48:12 leaning towards Apache license for Enyo Dec 09 19:48:20 adora: "we all still have jobs" Dec 09 19:49:07 jobs are good :) Dec 09 19:49:25 i think chuq just posted about 7 tweets in a row w/ diff catch phrases, all pointing to the same link Dec 09 19:49:33 or mayb diff links. Dec 09 19:50:06 They'll be charging to use Ares by the minute Dec 09 19:50:23 (i assume someone was kidding about that hehe) Dec 09 19:51:35 i think this is a major sigh of relief Dec 09 19:51:48 for about 500 people in california Dec 09 19:52:08 and many developers / fanatics Dec 09 19:53:56 https://twitter.com/#!/mattsmcnulty/status/145225176060145664 Dec 09 19:57:57 https://twitter.com/#!/webosinternals/status/145227524610326529 Dec 09 19:59:43 this has been an interesting morning Dec 09 20:00:55 thats one way to put it Dec 09 20:00:57 very Dec 09 20:04:51 gotta say, I like this whitman person Dec 09 20:05:06 holy crap Dec 09 20:05:08 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/111209xa.html Dec 09 20:05:09 she should be governor! Dec 09 20:05:12 oh wait Dec 09 20:05:33 she should run for president. Dec 09 20:05:35 of webos Dec 09 20:06:16 New Hardware Dec 09 20:06:21 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/9/2624209/meg-whitman-marc-andreessen-web-os-open-source-interview Dec 09 20:06:23 omg Dec 09 20:06:39 i think i'm gonna pee my pants Dec 09 20:06:51 Mc Pee Pants Dec 09 20:07:05 holy Dec 09 20:07:09 mfnsht Dec 09 20:07:33 akanster: gonna get canday! Dec 09 20:07:33 oops still logged in.. Dec 09 20:07:50 i'm guess that there's not much activity in the channel today.. lol Dec 09 20:08:02 oh my god shit myself Dec 09 20:08:05 soiled Dec 09 20:08:57 wait, is there new information? Dec 09 20:09:09 * Guest15225 clicks fxspec06 's link Dec 09 20:09:17 yes Dec 09 20:09:19 new information Dec 09 20:09:53 wwow Dec 09 20:10:03 so new hardware after all Dec 09 20:10:21 Meg Whitman is cleaning up the damage of Leo ApothFAKER Dec 09 20:11:36 * Guest15225 is getting all excited n' stuff Dec 09 20:13:02 I hope RIM follows the lead and (re) open sources QNX :) Dec 09 20:13:18 reminds of Meego? Maybe Intel+HP can go in, and make .. webMeeOS! Dec 09 20:13:55 no Dec 09 20:14:19 lol someone else mentioned meego Dec 09 20:18:49 So the popular theory that they might continue with tablets seems true! nice link fxspec! Dec 09 20:19:07 no one's talking about phones Dec 09 20:19:13 I was going to make a joke that this was Leo's plan all along, but if they're going back to making tablets that's good :) Dec 09 20:19:20 I think I'm happy with this Dec 09 20:19:26 akanster: It's good that there's going to be _some_ commercial product running webOS, imho Dec 09 20:19:45 It would be really nice to see a new (with Gesture area!!) webOS phone out though, we're due :) Dec 09 20:19:49 i'm not too upset about phones, at the moment to be honest Dec 09 20:20:23 i'm pretty sure at some point there will be a webos version that runs on android devices that is easy to install and is better than any webos phone ever to exist Dec 09 20:20:23 leo pretty much killed any chance of att or vz ever selling another hp phone Dec 09 20:20:29 (by that last comment i mean that HP was committed to no more gesture area phones, so this opens that possibility back up) Dec 09 20:20:37 impostah is a hell of an app Dec 09 20:20:42 happycube: maybe.. Dec 09 20:20:54 i can't get impostah to login to my palm profile for some reason :( Dec 09 20:20:59 "invalid IMEI/MEID" Dec 09 20:21:13 i haven't got hardly anything done today since hte announcement Dec 09 20:21:20 i wasn't planning on this Dec 09 20:27:07 wait wait wait Dec 09 20:27:14 it's open source? Dec 09 20:27:26 yes Dec 09 20:27:34 where you been Dec 09 20:27:44 being a grad student Dec 09 20:28:07 so this means we will be able to continue to have webOS phones (hacked onto android)? Dec 09 20:28:07 summatusmentis: april fools! Dec 09 20:28:12 :D Dec 09 20:28:24 do you understand how excited I am about this? Dec 09 20:28:25 * fxspec06 checks the date Dec 09 20:28:35 summatusmentis: Dec 09 20:28:40 you and me Dec 09 20:28:44 * ajay_ is also (surprisingly) a bit excited.. (almost lost hope) Dec 09 20:28:51 and about everyone and anyone who cares about webos Dec 09 20:29:04 well now I have no idea what I'm doing about phones Dec 09 20:29:06 ugh Dec 09 20:29:20 so, next question is, when's the code drop? Dec 09 20:29:30 this is like, burying someone alive only to unbury them a few days later and then give them a huge house and a ferarri and a bunch of money and women Dec 09 20:30:03 it's a rollout. enyo first, then binaries Dec 09 20:30:14 at which point i think we'll be able to put webos on anything Dec 09 20:31:15 so, then, the other issues are: how do we get T2S in the future? Dec 09 20:31:18 NFC? Dec 09 20:31:54 also, does this mean it's completely open source? or are they gonna continue to develop it? Dec 09 20:31:56 wait... new webOS tablets?? Dec 09 20:31:56 i'm so excited Dec 09 20:32:03 did i mention i'm excited? Dec 09 20:32:06 * Mousey stfu's Dec 09 20:32:22 summatusmentis: i would assume, that, we can get all those things, ........ , once we get the source code Dec 09 20:32:26 NuttyBunny_Pre3: "at some point in the future" Dec 09 20:32:34 we should make a team Dec 09 20:32:44 like hp is doing this hoping ppl will work on it Dec 09 20:32:46 like, an rc5 team? Dec 09 20:32:49 they need ppl to work on it Dec 09 20:32:54 summatusmentis: Excellent :D Dec 09 20:32:55 like webos externals Dec 09 20:33:00 lol Dec 09 20:33:33 fxspec06: I expect rwhitby and webos-internals will pick it up Dec 09 20:33:41 true that. oh man Dec 09 20:33:48 my mind is blown Dec 09 20:34:23 hehe Dec 09 20:34:24 http://fatsrikerbeard.tumblr.com/post/13978134314/in-honor-of-todays-announcement-that-webos-will?ref=nf Dec 09 20:37:24 all those android phones that have capacitive buttons, how functional is that area? Dec 09 20:39:11 as functional as we can write it Dec 09 20:39:16 s/we/anyone Dec 09 20:39:52 i would assume that functionality would need to be programmed in.. it can't be too hard to assign a few new functions to buttons. Dec 09 20:40:19 well, we probably don't have a desire to use the current generation of android phones I assume? and the next is to remove buttons, so we can make a gesture area there.. Dec 09 20:40:41 hell, this means someone could decide to put webOS on phones Dec 09 20:41:00 if i can put webos on a galaxy nexus right now, i'd buy a galaxy nexus right now Dec 09 20:41:03 ajay_: next gen android phones won't have a capacitive location Dec 09 20:41:16 they're moving to the iPhone "dead bezel" model Dec 09 20:41:55 fxspec06: same with the tab Dec 09 20:42:02 summatusmentis: is that different from what I'm talking about? The area where they're going to have soft buttons, will be perfect.. webOS on galaxy nexus! Dec 09 20:42:42 ajay_: those "soft buttons" are built into the normal android thing Dec 09 20:42:54 it'd have to be closer to what the touchpad does for swipe up Dec 09 20:43:36 summatusmentis: yeah, so making a gesture area where the 'soft buttons' are would be np Dec 09 20:43:38 this also means that the Google nexus line has a lot of potential moving forward Dec 09 20:43:44 ajay_: probably true Dec 09 20:45:14 can you make your own buttons in that area Dec 09 20:45:21 like is it a bitfield Dec 09 20:45:35 it's entirely software Dec 09 20:45:41 we'll have to make an area Dec 09 20:45:48 on the new galaxy nexus, there's no "area" Dec 09 20:45:51 it's just part of the screen Dec 09 20:45:55 oh i see. Dec 09 20:46:02 =| Dec 09 20:46:14 well darn, i <3 the gesture area Dec 09 20:46:21 could still have a gesture area Dec 09 20:46:26 it'd just have to be all software Dec 09 20:46:34 what about notification blink Dec 09 20:46:45 android has a led for that, like blue i think Dec 09 20:47:05 depends on the phones Dec 09 20:48:32 wow, #webos is like, busy. Dec 09 20:48:41 gotta go people. Nice to know this went in a good direction :D Dec 09 20:50:22 STAY TUNED! Dec 09 20:52:31 Motorola wins German patent case against Apple, can ban sales of iPhone, iPad" (verge) funny.. maybe apple should make a webOS phone, to be safe from lawsuits :) Dec 09 20:57:15 soon, we'll probably be able to put webos on a iphone Dec 09 20:57:26 i mean, we can do w.e we want w/ hardware we purchase Dec 09 20:57:39 right.. ? o.O Dec 09 20:57:42 it's pretty hard to put anything but iOS on the iPhone Dec 09 20:57:53 they lock that down pretty hard Dec 09 20:58:37 chuq! Dec 09 20:58:38 * Mousey huggle chuqui Dec 09 20:58:41 +s Dec 09 20:58:42 omg it's chuq Dec 09 20:59:13 hey hey Dec 09 20:59:16 chuqui: can you comment on code-drop timeframe? Dec 09 20:59:21 does your card still work chuq? can you get into the office today? Dec 09 20:59:43 yup. still have them fooled Dec 09 21:01:06 what does this mean to the webos community? what are your feelings on this open source deal? what does this mean to developers? Dec 09 21:01:24 chuqui: you're gonna be the person of the hour around here for a while Dec 09 21:02:51 I think this is a great deal for webOS. Dec 09 21:03:04 amen sister Dec 09 21:03:14 now we can finally get FreeRunners with WebOS! Dec 09 21:03:14 :D Dec 09 21:03:20 * Mousey recycles his jokes Dec 09 21:03:23 bahaha Dec 09 21:03:29 FreeRunners :) Dec 09 21:03:45 c'mon, how awesome would that be Dec 09 21:03:51 not overly Dec 09 21:03:52 do you think we'll see new oem phones running webos? Dec 09 21:03:55 that hardware is... meh Dec 09 21:04:02 just because HP doesn't wanna do phones, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done on phones =P Dec 09 21:04:03 i know you have no crystal ball, but .. Dec 09 21:04:31 Mousey: that I agree with, but a FreeRunner is the wrong choice :) Consider the Nexus line :) Dec 09 21:04:31 it was made clear that HP wouldn't be doing phones (necessarily) in the press Dec 09 21:04:51 summatusmentis: why? google profits from that, and freerunner would be a better platform for prototyping Dec 09 21:04:52 =P Dec 09 21:05:00 because it's real hardware? Dec 09 21:05:00 Mousey: I have a couple of FreeRunners here ... Dec 09 21:05:02 right, HP won't be doing phones, but is it not possible that another hardware manufacturer could put webos on a phone and sell it Dec 09 21:05:07 rwhitby: :D Dec 09 21:05:21 what about that german company that was selling upgrades to the freerunner's guts? Dec 09 21:05:27 * ajay_ doesn't even know what a freerunner is,runs to internet Dec 09 21:05:39 aren't they still resistive touchscreens? Dec 09 21:05:43 ajay_: google openmoko Dec 09 21:05:53 they're open hardware Dec 09 21:05:57 ah, it's a movie, got it Dec 09 21:06:07 imdb.com/title/tt1579232 :) Dec 09 21:06:12 I tried to work with openmoko for Google Summer of Code in 2008 Dec 09 21:06:13 ajay_: yes! webos on cellulose! Dec 09 21:06:35 ok ok, it was never mean to be this serious a discussion Dec 09 21:06:35 omg Dec 09 21:06:45 oh yes, running on open hardware would be the _perfect_ idea! Dec 09 21:06:47 webOS could be a part of Google Summer of Code Dec 09 21:06:49 * Mousey goes to lunch with his touchpad Dec 09 21:06:56 haha Dec 09 21:07:50 so there will still be a dedicated webos team, much like google Dec 09 21:08:24 Bah. There goes the hope of WebOS-based printers that would automatically purchase ink refills, and print advertisements on-demand. ;) Dec 09 21:08:40 * fxspec06 wants webos on his microwave Dec 09 21:15:33 LONG LIVE WEBOS \o/ Dec 09 21:15:44 has anyone looked to see if there's a pre2 2.2.4 doctor out? Dec 09 21:16:13 i have an unlocked pre2, in europe, and i didn't get anything :( Dec 09 21:16:20 I tried to check this morning, didn't see anything Dec 09 21:25:01 i hope they might open source Kindle,etc! Dec 09 21:25:19 doubtful Dec 09 21:25:35 might OSS the music player stuff, but I doubt they'll open source the stuff that they collaborated with others on Dec 09 21:25:37 so uh.. what happened? Dec 09 21:25:50 dawm: HP open sourced webOS Dec 09 21:26:01 and they're considering tablet strategies long-term Dec 09 21:26:09 oh so more lame news Dec 09 21:26:13 by open sourced, I mean they announced they're open sourcing webOS Dec 09 21:26:22 there's no code yet Dec 09 21:26:35 what do you mean lame news? Dec 09 21:26:42 no new phone Dec 09 21:26:45 no pre3 for sprint Dec 09 21:26:46 no Dec 09 21:26:48 aka im stuck with droid Dec 09 21:26:51 but we knew that Dec 09 21:27:10 PuffTheMagic has webOS "running" on an evo3d Dec 09 21:27:11 bbwl Dec 09 21:27:26 p.s. thank you to all of you for being here to share my webos joy with Dec 09 21:27:27 the only thing i like about my samsung epic Dec 09 21:27:29 is its a samsung Dec 09 21:27:41 if i could, i'd thank every one of you personally Dec 09 21:27:52 wow Dec 09 21:27:53 * fxspec06 long live the webos Dec 09 21:27:55 what a great day Dec 09 21:28:02 for Dec 09 21:28:05 freaking real Dec 09 21:28:09 :D Dec 09 21:28:44 i honestly cant wait for android to adopt some of the better pieces of webos Dec 09 21:28:46 i hope it happens Dec 09 21:28:54 and v.v. Dec 09 21:29:05 cxreg: ICS is already doing some of that Dec 09 21:29:22 a bit Dec 09 21:31:07 ok gotta eat, chat ya'll l8r :) Dec 09 21:31:48 oh but before i go, did any unlocked EU pre2 users check their profile for a new doctor?? Dec 09 21:32:01 there's a new Dr already? Dec 09 21:32:03 oh wait... ;) Dec 09 21:32:48 i'm hoping! Dec 09 21:33:01 (I was making a lame Dr Who joke) Dec 09 21:33:24 in that case, i'll pretend i was going along with it :) Dec 09 21:35:50 paz.. Dec 09 21:51:06 Any word from HP about which open source license will be used when they release webOS? Dec 09 21:52:03 they haven't said Dec 09 21:53:48 anyone from HP on the channel who can give us a hint on which open source license to expect? Dec 09 21:54:47 I doubt it is decided yet. Dec 09 22:02:43 I doubt anyone from HP who hangs out in IRC would know yet Dec 09 22:03:59 has HP released FOSS stuff before? Dec 09 22:04:10 their legal team probably has a prefrence. Dec 09 22:04:14 parts of webOS have been OSS from the start Dec 09 22:04:21 (the parts that had to be) Dec 09 22:05:13 you know what would be neat? if they sold touchstone backs for other devices Dec 09 22:05:30 this may be a stupid question, but will this have any effect on webOS development for the TP, or simply make it easier to get fully functional android on said device? O.o Dec 09 22:05:47 I don't understand what you're asking Dec 09 22:05:58 they're keeping webOS, and open sourcing it Dec 09 22:06:07 presumably they'll continue to support the TP Dec 09 22:06:27 by that i mean is will there be any focus on improving WebOS performance on TP now that they have open sourced the code Dec 09 22:06:33 i.e. rome or something to that effect Dec 09 22:06:36 roms* Dec 09 22:07:00 HP does have other FOSS stuff Dec 09 22:07:38 licenses vary Dec 09 22:08:52 sweet, congrats on beecomming open source? Dec 09 22:10:59 DanielC|Mac: I'd imagine it will have an impact... potentially easier to develop for, but also potentially harder to market... it could be a wash, no crystal balls Dec 09 22:11:13 mmk Dec 09 22:11:24 thanks Dec 09 22:11:27 re: android, probably, but who knows Dec 09 22:11:48 if there are still binary components to the drivers, that may not help android at all Dec 09 22:11:58 (but I don't know that many here care about that... this is a webos channel) Dec 09 22:12:07 yeah. ICS will be nice on the TP for certain, but I still have a love/hate relationship with WebOS Dec 09 22:12:39 my guess is the first focus will probably be getting the code in a releasable state Dec 09 22:12:55 after that, it's anyone's guess... depends on how governance works out, etc. Dec 09 22:13:05 which as I've read may take a bit to replace licensed code with open source alternatives? Dec 09 22:13:17 by HP i mean before release Dec 09 22:13:28 could be, only people with access to the current source/builds know for sure Dec 09 22:13:33 k Dec 09 22:14:36 nobody else really knows how much of that stuff is in there Dec 09 22:23:46 http://twitter.com/#!/webosinternals/statuses/145265876327870464 - heh Dec 09 22:23:48 hmmm Dec 09 22:24:27 time for some shenanigans Dec 09 22:41:21 Stupid new twitter app for iphone - can't change font size. Dec 09 22:43:19 so, tweetbot gets another sale Dec 09 22:46:38 haeffb: TweetBot is only 99cents today Dec 09 22:47:30 nice move on their part Dec 09 22:57:52 http://mattgemmell.com/2011/12/09/open-source-webos/ - read, discuss and refute Dec 09 23:02:02 i think he kinda misses the point... even though desktop linux isn't big, there are a lot of non-obvious places it's gone Dec 09 23:02:26 for instance, webkit is based off KDE's web browser engine... and that's in pretty much everything mobile that isn't from MS at this point Dec 09 23:03:07 Enyo could easily become a *very* strong environment for kiosks and other such things Dec 09 23:04:04 and wasn't it said that other webos devices would be protected by HP's patents? given what those patents *are*, that's huge Dec 09 23:11:58 happycube: But his main point is that it needs some person/organization/company with a clear vision that has absolute say Dec 09 23:15:03 to be a product per se, maybe Dec 09 23:16:34 hey guys Dec 09 23:18:27 oh so hey this channel is still on fire Dec 09 23:18:33 what'd i miss Dec 09 23:19:09 suppression systems down, fire continues to rage on Dec 09 23:22:07 akanster, it doesnt really matter what any of these bloggers think doesnt matter if it will come out the box on new devices Dec 09 23:22:23 all that matters is that I can have my way with it on the devices i own Dec 09 23:22:50 webos to replace in car computer/navi Dec 09 23:22:56 matters to devs. It's fair to ask, "Is there a viable market?" Dec 09 23:24:04 matters to what kind of devs Dec 09 23:24:19 hackers who want to use it as a mobile platform, no it won't matter Dec 09 23:24:36 matter to app developers who want to build apps for it, yea, it kinda does matter if it ships on devices Dec 09 23:25:20 yeah Dec 09 23:25:24 lol Dec 09 23:26:28 its not gonna ship on a new device for a long time Dec 09 23:26:39 i dont see there being any market left by then Dec 09 23:26:42 absolutely, if we're going to keep losing people for another year or two, the i might as well just write apps for myself Dec 09 23:27:16 yeah our first efforts have to be to make updates for pre, pre2, maybe even pixi, veer, etc Dec 09 23:27:29 keep those guys around Dec 09 23:27:46 dunno Dec 09 23:27:53 and do new devices Dec 09 23:27:55 the oldest hardware is probably earlier on the list to fail :p Dec 09 23:27:55 well, true, but if we can also get it up on some modern hardware .. and hopefully they won't be abandoning phones Dec 09 23:28:04 yeah Dec 09 23:28:21 e.g. soembody's wife (haeffb?) who's gone through the last pixi, and they have 2 that'd have to be partswapped in order to continue withw ebos Dec 09 23:28:25 iPod running webOS anyone? Dec 09 23:28:35 :D Dec 09 23:28:46 apple locks the bootloaders down pretty hard Dec 09 23:29:07 dwc-: if we have source code we can tighten it up to run better on pixi hw Dec 09 23:29:22 for HP it doesn't make sense to do so Dec 09 23:29:22 and fairly different hw wise, and no specs/docs for it Dec 09 23:29:32 agree Dec 09 23:30:06 another big question, how are the phone carriers going to deal with this? Dec 09 23:30:29 EricBlade: nothing for them to deal with Dec 09 23:30:32 hopefully not by blocking the devices Dec 09 23:30:45 destinal: carriers tend to really really dislike unapproved softwares Dec 09 23:30:52 EricBlade: BFD, you can already run custom android distros on a lot of existing devices Dec 09 23:30:56 but it's a habit they've had to get out of somewhat with smartphones being as smart as they are Dec 09 23:31:12 EricBlade: there's nothing for them to deal with Dec 09 23:31:32 EricBlade: if people put their own OS on their phone there's no support for them to do so and they deal with it themselves Dec 09 23:31:35 like Cyanogen today Dec 09 23:32:29 probably if there aren't a huge number of them and they don't cause problems, the carriers won't bother Dec 09 23:32:52 but they certainly could decide to block or disallow Dec 09 23:33:22 http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/11840/12125129.jpg Dec 09 23:33:35 dwc-: but they won't Dec 09 23:33:48 lol oil Dec 09 23:34:05 I don't think there's enough webos for them to care Dec 09 23:34:27 there's just no point Dec 09 23:34:31 but I wouldn't put it past sprint or vzw, e.g. to refuse to allow them Dec 09 23:34:42 there are a lot of people who run cyanogenmod on their android devices, nobody has blocked (even if it were possible) Dec 09 23:34:47 this is a non-starter Dec 09 23:34:48 they are drunk on Android money Dec 09 23:34:49 next? Dec 09 23:34:52 once your phone is activated they cant really stop it Dec 09 23:34:59 sure they can. deactivate it. Dec 09 23:35:10 dwc-: they can't detect a change Dec 09 23:35:14 dont think that is legal Dec 09 23:35:30 this would fall into the jailbreaking lawsuit shit Dec 09 23:35:33 and the infra to do so would be way too much work Dec 09 23:35:37 we can do what we want with our devices Dec 09 23:35:43 I don't believe there is any legislation or policy that requires them to allow any device on their network Dec 09 23:35:45 i'm reasonably certain that if someone had some kind of broken network handling code, they could block you. Dec 09 23:35:59 dwc-, im not saying any device Dec 09 23:36:04 im saying any software Dec 09 23:36:16 of course ithas to be one of the devices Dec 09 23:36:24 it was a major worry that i know the carriers I worked for had when smartphones started to come out years ago Dec 09 23:36:44 yeah but with android it's basically over and done with, we crossed that bridge without any real fires starting Dec 09 23:36:51 people don't freak out about it Dec 09 23:36:55 i've never heard of them using it, but now that Android has crossed that bridge, you're likely right Dec 09 23:37:04 i was just asking because it is a concern Dec 09 23:37:07 destinal, but Sprint sure freaks out about Preware ;) Dec 09 23:37:10 yes, they might not know immediately whether you have an old approved webos or a new hacked up one, but they could figure it out Dec 09 23:37:25 PuffTheMagic: heh what? Dec 09 23:37:26 and they could just decide to toss the whole product line, new or old Dec 09 23:37:26 dwc-, why would they care Dec 09 23:37:36 PuffTheMagic: oh re tethering Dec 09 23:37:44 destinal, no preware Dec 09 23:37:49 that's what I'm saying, I don't think they will care as long as it doesn't cause a problem Dec 09 23:37:57 they get a crazy when u get your phone serviced and it has preware on it Dec 09 23:37:57 PuffTheMagic: I didn't know anything had come up Dec 09 23:38:04 they try to claim it voids your warranty Dec 09 23:38:07 lmao Dec 09 23:38:11 but there is nothing that stops them from doing so if they decide they want to Dec 09 23:38:14 I'll remember that Dec 09 23:38:22 dwc-, ya I think there is Dec 09 23:38:45 http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20011661-38.html Dec 09 23:39:07 that has nothing to do with whether it's allowed on their network Dec 09 23:39:23 that just says they didn't violate federal copyright law by jailbreaking Dec 09 23:39:37 i guess Dec 09 23:39:56 (#include ) Dec 09 23:40:04 anyway .. what else was i saying Dec 09 23:40:20 oh, yeah .. will HP handle updating existing devices with new softwares? Dec 09 23:40:26 if we're even going to get 2.x .. Dec 09 23:40:41 oh shit! Dec 09 23:40:47 that is gonna be so awesome Dec 09 23:40:58 when people can change their udpate server Dec 09 23:41:06 they might, they might not Dec 09 23:41:10 and webos-internals can push out our own OTA's Dec 09 23:41:22 that would be so cool Dec 09 23:41:37 that's all fine and good, but i still suspect that the majority of users don't have any idea what a webos-internals, preware, ota, or kernel is Dec 09 23:41:37 don't get ahead of yourself... we don't know if the update stuff is going to be included Dec 09 23:41:48 dwc-: the client stuff will be at least Dec 09 23:41:54 we can figure out the server part as needed Dec 09 23:42:00 or a new client could be written even Dec 09 23:42:16 ericblade: of course not, they know "overclock" follow some outdated guide and click and get lost and then can't figure out what's going on Dec 09 23:42:52 EricBlade, that is so wrong Dec 09 23:42:54 dwc-: if even that. yes, webOS is a bit of a nerdy pursuit, but -still- the majority of people that buy anything aren't usually the techies Dec 09 23:43:00 everyone has preware now Dec 09 23:43:02 EricBlade: what shocked me is that my stepdad got a pre, handed it to me one time to use and I flipped through and saw preware and govnah on it Dec 09 23:43:02 :D Dec 09 23:43:18 EricBlade: I was like, uh, you know I'm in internals right? :) Dec 09 23:43:32 he never even asked about it, did it all on his own Dec 09 23:43:51 so a lot of people who are inclined, will, but not joe sixpack I suppose Dec 09 23:44:21 if hp is going to update existing devices, then people who might otherwise not care one bit, might stick around longer Dec 09 23:45:02 EricBlade: or we can do third party updates Dec 09 23:45:23 just let them use preware to install an update server switcher and OTA update from WOSI Dec 09 23:48:26 hello Dec 09 23:52:47 man the good news just keeps fkin rolling today Dec 09 23:53:20 i just got a note that i need to prepare for a trip to visit the offices of a company i'm going to be contracting for Dec 09 23:55:05 EricBlade how long it will take ? Dec 09 23:55:19 EricBlade any news about 2.2.4 update for you ? Dec 09 23:57:40 no idea on 2.2.4. probably going to spend a few days visiting their offices in January Dec 09 23:59:22 I'm changing work in January Dec 09 23:59:37 too Dec 09 23:59:57 i'm going to see if they'll consider a port to webOS for this project ;) Dec 10 00:01:42 :)) Dec 10 00:01:51 and what they're doing ? Dec 10 00:02:17 well, about as much as I can say, is that by trade I'm a game programmer, that works primarily with Unreal Dec 10 00:02:46 nice Dec 10 00:04:11 pc or console? Dec 10 00:04:28 (or mobile) Dec 10 00:10:31 sorry I'm not in, can anyone explain please Dec 10 00:10:36 this news is a lot bigger than people think i believe Dec 10 00:10:42 webos is now expanding Dec 10 00:10:44 rapidly Dec 10 00:10:57 whereas it has never expanded rapidly before Dec 10 00:10:59 due to open source? Dec 10 00:11:08 how is it expanding Dec 10 00:11:17 the only thing expanding right now is due to hot air :p Dec 10 00:11:23 people are going to get involved in this Dec 10 00:11:25 I don't kno what's happened Dec 10 00:11:34 *know Dec 10 00:11:37 people that never would have considered it before Dec 10 00:11:46 it's a smart move Dec 10 00:12:37 hey PuffTheMagic, you around? Dec 10 00:13:14 i don't think hp is losing much anymore at the moment. they've almost leveled out, they've got to start heading in the right direction soon Dec 10 00:13:35 fxspec06: we can only hope :) Dec 10 00:13:36 it's especially a smart move for whitman Dec 10 00:13:47 listening to the palm crew Dec 10 00:14:13 very true Dec 10 00:14:38 dwc-: the project that i'm going to be working on is for iOS at the moment Dec 10 00:15:01 i think people might look at her a little differently from now on. she backed up her company today Dec 10 00:15:11 I suspect the real magic will start happening when they drop webos onto their EVOs and their Droids, and realize it's a heck of a lot better of an OS. Dec 10 00:15:30 she's already done a much better job than the previous r-tard did Dec 10 00:15:37 someone needs to get this up on the Droid Razr. just because. Dec 10 00:15:44 yeah the stock went UP today Dec 10 00:15:54 the entire MARKET went up today Dec 10 00:16:28 for all i know the stock has been slowly climbing every day since leo left Dec 10 00:16:29 on news that from europe, mostly Dec 10 00:16:39 HattCzech_work, ya Dec 10 00:16:58 my HPQ is still worth less than it was when I got it Dec 10 00:17:01 you managed to get webos on an evo 3d? Dec 10 00:17:30 like I said earlier, it wasn't just excellent timing that had eBay go from a 6-person startup to a giant megacorp in such a short period. Meg knows stuff, and she also knows how to get people who know stuff around her to fill in her gaps Dec 10 00:17:35 .. in knowledge Dec 10 00:18:09 if she ever makes another run for office, i will absolutely vote against her, but she's shown to be quite a shrewd businessperson Dec 10 00:18:14 HattCzech_work, i copied the TP userland to a mmc partition, tweaked some init scripts and got luna to start Dec 10 00:18:16 thats about it Dec 10 00:18:28 no input, no buttons, no hw graphics Dec 10 00:18:48 that's a pretty good start :) Dec 10 00:18:52 Cool Dec 10 00:18:59 ya that was all with binaries Dec 10 00:19:08 what's your day job? Dec 10 00:19:13 when we have source it should be "fairly easy" Dec 10 00:19:14 HattCzech_work: he's a dragon Dec 10 00:19:24 HattCzech_work, cogsci grad study / RA Dec 10 00:19:30 hahah, good point Dec 10 00:19:40 cool Dec 10 00:20:42 i'd make some comment about being a student and having time to work on those things, but grad students don't really have time Dec 10 00:20:45 PuffTheMagic: nice making the news today Dec 10 00:21:00 depends on the grad student.... Dec 10 00:21:34 as developers we would be able to write more integrated apps Dec 10 00:21:52 maybe fix some bugs Dec 10 00:22:01 well, we'll absolutely need to be able to get HP to accept updates that will allow us to do more Dec 10 00:22:09 i bet we'll get some tegra support soon Dec 10 00:22:15 ya imagine all the new "service" apis we can add Dec 10 00:22:18 LED api Dec 10 00:22:20 MIC api Dec 10 00:22:22 ;) Dec 10 00:22:40 new synergy filesystems Dec 10 00:22:47 how about that netflix app people been craving for? Dec 10 00:22:51 nope Dec 10 00:22:54 not happening Dec 10 00:23:04 unless netflix writes it Dec 10 00:23:13 you don't think today's events got their attention? Dec 10 00:23:13 I wonder if they'll open the pdk too Dec 10 00:23:19 the netflix apps that play shit are only written by netflix I think Dec 10 00:23:23 cause they have closed source blobs Dec 10 00:23:35 Brybry, everything == everything doesnt it Dec 10 00:23:35 i know, but i'm sure their heads are turned Dec 10 00:23:36 could add the ability to get stuff from the native virtual keyboard ._. Dec 10 00:23:45 iirc, with netflix, it's the DRM bits for the video Dec 10 00:24:00 I wouldn't be surpsised if someone stuck a Dalvik VM on it, and then it might be possible to run the Android netflix app. Dec 10 00:24:03 ya and snapdragon processors can decode them Dec 10 00:24:04 * egaudet excited Dec 10 00:24:25 ctbeiser: there's nothing stopping someone for the last couple of years to stick a dalvik VM on webos Dec 10 00:24:39 open sourcing webos doesn't really change that much.... Dec 10 00:24:50 dwc-, changes everything Dec 10 00:25:05 ever eeee thing Dec 10 00:25:06 i agree w/ puff Dec 10 00:25:23 Anything to prevent someone from building a WebOS runtime for other OSes, now? (Assuming that the OSS announcement isn't more vapourware, of course). Dec 10 00:25:28 * dwc- gets up on the other side of the bed, flies to work, all thanks to webos opensourced! Dec 10 00:25:40 lol Dec 10 00:25:40 dwc-: It's been done; Myriad Alien. Just, nobody wanted to pay for it. Dec 10 00:25:54 just wait til the first webos tegra port Dec 10 00:25:56 I'm excited for new APIs Dec 10 00:26:02 and see how many damned devs come then Dec 10 00:26:03 i just want some stupidly basic stuff. i want to be able to have a program get permission to control the media volume. i want to be able to have a program get permission to dim or blank or un-blank the screen. i want to be able to have a program get permission to access your call logs. i want caller-id to be able to have contact-dependent ringtones (if that is in there, somewhere, i can't find it) Dec 10 00:26:08 so many great apps and services done with undocumented APIs. so excited Dec 10 00:26:11 ctbeiser: exactly. Dec 10 00:26:11 HELLO ROOTED TERMINAL APP! Dec 10 00:26:21 i want to be able to use the volume buttons to do something, and not have them -also- control the volume Dec 10 00:26:45 should make an app that can customize it Dec 10 00:27:05 Vmlemon: HP is releasing Enyo as open source too; depending on license, you might even be able to write websites in Enyo. Dec 10 00:27:22 i don't think i want to download a 200k+ javascript to run a website Dec 10 00:27:26 that would be fun Dec 10 00:27:40 EricBlade: could be worse Dec 10 00:27:47 google maps on pre on edge? Dec 10 00:28:14 i think i'm going to postpone wild'n release Dec 10 00:28:28 i actually was able to use my edge data connection to access my google voice voicemail today. it was amazing Dec 10 00:28:29 ctbeiser: Interesting. I'd be amused if someone managed to get it running under a Genode process, given that Android, and other Linuxes already do so. Dec 10 00:28:48 we all know enyo Dec 10 00:29:03 make an enyo app and release cross platform Dec 10 00:29:26 Or make an "Enyolator" wrapper for PhoneGap? Dec 10 00:29:40 hmm there's another possibility Dec 10 00:29:50 considering the number of mentions in the Enyo code of PhoneGap, i'm guessing that it probably already works there Dec 10 00:30:20 phonegap is on webos Dec 10 00:30:23 EricBlade, same on the simple stuff. I want PDK API for virtual keyboard size (I can grab it from the sqlite db but that won't work from a jail), I want PDK SDL events for when the user changes the keyboard size Dec 10 00:30:23 * vmlemon_ wonders if they'll release the Palm IPC bits, and Mojo, too. Dec 10 00:30:35 both of which would need luna + PDK source to add Dec 10 00:30:53 I'm wondering if they'll release the code for the rumored partially completed netbook port. Dec 10 00:31:02 will Ares stay as is or be updated? Dec 10 00:31:09 I konw talk has been made about updating Ares Dec 10 00:31:29 last i knew they were still working on Ares, at least through late October Dec 10 00:32:26 I wrote a reply to matt gemmell's post - http://marcus.nordaaker.com/2011/12/beautiful-open-source/ Dec 10 00:33:01 uh.. Palm based webOS on beOS? Dec 10 00:33:20 i don't think i see any similarity at all Dec 10 00:34:12 There's probably some vestigial PalmOS code in there (and lots of Open-Sourced C++ components) - but I doubt that there's any BeOS code. Dec 10 00:34:46 Palm did buy BeOS… back in the day, but really, Garnet was, as I understood it, most all we ever saw of it. Dec 10 00:34:54 (Access acquired and disposed of all of that, so it seems). Dec 10 00:35:08 i didn't even know palm bought beOS. Dec 10 00:37:32 all 5 users of beos at the time were sad Dec 10 00:37:54 I was sad. Dec 10 00:37:55 i don't even remember waht the point of beOS was. i hated it when i messed with it Dec 10 00:38:10 i installed beos once Dec 10 00:38:13 ran it for like 5 min Dec 10 00:38:16 then formatted Dec 10 00:38:37 I ran it for a couple days, had no idea waht to do with it next, wiped the partn and put linux back on the 2nd partition Dec 10 00:39:17 I was running afterstep on my desktop back then. I really thought beos had some nice os ideas. just not a lot of good apps. Dec 10 00:39:20 it was some developer preview version or something Dec 10 00:40:18 BeOS had users? Dec 10 00:40:27 of course, I was a student back then and didn't really care about productivity. I even ran QNX on my desktop at some point. Dec 10 00:40:53 once I started working I switched to OSX :p Dec 10 00:42:18 To be honest, the main reason I find the open sourcing of webOS interesting is Googlerola. Dec 10 00:42:35 I just think it's nice to see webOS isn't going to the graveyard of dead operating systems, because whenever that happens, there's always someone who just won't move on… look at the Amiga fans. Dec 10 00:42:53 I used to work with a big amiga fan at HP Dec 10 00:43:09 * imarcusthis had a friend who stayed with OS/2 until 2000s Dec 10 00:43:11 So I see this potentially being a spanner in the works as far as Android is concerned, particularly if Google doesn't tread carefully. Dec 10 00:44:18 Heh. I ran Solaris 10 for a while, on an old Pentium 4-based machine. That certainly tested the dodgy ICH4 IDE controller to its limits. Dec 10 00:44:42 i had a box that ran OS/2 until 2003 Dec 10 00:44:49 I was running iusethis.com on solaris 10 for years. On a sparc machine tho. Dec 10 00:44:51 i wonder when we can get webos 3.0 on our pre 2's? is that possible? Dec 10 00:44:55 (It had a habit of locking the entire machine up, if I copied data between two internal HDDs, under certain circumstances)... Dec 10 00:45:01 that's possible, right? Dec 10 00:45:01 could be worse... you could have been one of those people clinging on to solaris 8/x86 Dec 10 00:45:33 but only because I got the hardware for free :p Dec 10 00:45:37 * dwc- has an s10/sparc laptop Dec 10 00:45:55 :) Dec 10 00:45:57 * imarcusthis would like to try the freebsd kernel debian distribution on some project. Dec 10 00:46:27 imarcusthis: Why not go the full 9 yards with GNU/HURD Debian? Dec 10 00:46:43 ctbeiser I don't see how that is the same thing at all :) Dec 10 00:46:52 because kfbsd has drivers? Dec 10 00:46:53 * vmlemon_ still has a Symbian OS/S60 phone, a dead Newton MessagePad, and once ran FreeBSD on a crappy old laptop with VIA's horrible UniCrap video chipsets. Dec 10 00:46:54 i wonder if we can somehow run windows apps on webos Dec 10 00:47:00 what you think Dec 10 00:47:08 get kinect working w/ webos Dec 10 00:47:23 so many ideas Dec 10 00:47:24 sure, run webos on x86, and run wine Dec 10 00:47:25 imarcusthis: It's only five steps further towards ridiculous. Dec 10 00:48:03 in the xserver running on webos ... let's see how many abstractions we can get Dec 10 00:48:10 ctbeiser freebsd is a really robust kernel, I just don't like the bsd userland much. Debian is a great package system, I just don't really like the kernel much. Don't see why it's a ridicolous idea. Dec 10 00:48:21 dwc-: inception Dec 10 00:48:41 Needs a VNC server with an SSH wrapper on localhost. Dec 10 00:48:52 Why don't we install chromium, and then load Enyo on it? Dec 10 00:49:28 That would be webosception for sure. Dec 10 00:49:33 wonder how the Chrome App Store is going. Maybe that'd be something for Enyo. Dec 10 00:49:54 i already use GVoice in Chrome instead of the website Dec 10 00:51:16 don't understand why anyone would want to run windows apps on webos. unless you mean metro apps. Dec 10 00:52:03 It'd probably be far easier to run webos apps on windows. Dec 10 00:52:10 ctbeiser: Isn't the "graveyard of operating systems" called the Linux Foundation? ;) Dec 10 00:56:27 we can make kinect integrated webos apps for people w/ pc's Dec 10 00:56:58 possible at some point in way future Dec 10 00:58:22 vmlemon: I was about to disagree, but actually that's mostly true. It does seem that FOSS mobile OSes, bar Android, which is developed privately by one company, haven't been so successful… we've already got Moblin, Maemo, Meego, LiMo, Access Linux, Openmoko… do we want to bet on how long Tizen will last? Dec 10 00:59:50 About as long as its predecessors (not very long). Dec 10 00:59:54 will it even *start*? Dec 10 01:00:03 ALP and LiMo were practically vapourware, too. Dec 10 01:00:08 Oh, I left out Bada. Dec 10 01:00:38 bada I hear is pretty successful ... just not in the US Dec 10 01:01:45 (Unless a bunch of Japanese dumbphones, and vapour investment scams like the First Else are anything to go by, of course). Dec 10 01:02:10 vmlemon: I hate to admit it, but I still kinda want a First Else. Dec 10 01:02:31 I'll admit that the concept was intriguing, though. Dec 10 01:03:09 There were issues with it, but the idea of a hierarchically oriented one-handed OS was VERY intriguing to me. Dec 10 01:03:54 LiMo have been promising an "Open Platform SDK" since they started - and I've never seen it; and now they're hyping up a new, "Now with more Open Source, and less Shared Source components!" release. Dec 10 01:05:18 The only code that I ever saw was some example code with a Motorola copyright header, and a "Confidential and Proprietary" notice, related to an interface to an anti-virus application interface module that was accessible via Google, if you used the right search terms, if I vaguely remember correctly. Dec 10 01:06:13 I correct myself, bada is still not dead yet and not open source yet. Dec 10 01:06:42 Most Bada implementations seem to be based on Samsung's proprietary SHP, too. Dec 10 01:06:58 (Although they've supposedly got a Linux-compatible adaptation layer). Dec 10 01:08:18 Reading some of their WebKit port code was fairly illuminating, as far as that architecture is concerned. Dec 10 01:08:59 bye, gnight Dec 10 01:45:37 i know i said i was getting to sleep earlier, but i haven't made it there yet ... "we've had Ares 2 on the back burner lately while finishing cross-platform Enyo support in version 1.1, " Dec 10 01:46:54 EricBlade: Where's that from? Dec 10 01:47:08 public dev forum Dec 10 01:48:03 so, things Palm has been working on that they couldn't tell us before: Enyo 1.1 with cross platform support, webOS 2.2.4, webOS 3.0.5. . . . wonder if there's anything else Dec 10 01:48:50 http://twitter.com/#!/everythingpre/status/145210544348078080 - best tweet today Dec 10 01:49:14 ... posted from Twitter for Mac. Dec 10 01:50:17 wow the new twitter.com interface is quite similar to everything i hate about the new tweetdeck update. Dec 10 01:50:42 gah! Im the only one that hasnt gotten it yet Dec 10 01:51:01 I have logged out, deleted cookies, hard refreshed... nothing! Dec 10 01:51:49 that post was the first time i got it Dec 10 02:06:10 hello Dec 10 02:06:24 could sprint see that i am running webos 2.1? Dec 10 02:07:40 fudg3:they could do deep packet inspection and sniff your traffic but I doubt it Dec 10 02:07:45 it's too much trouble Dec 10 02:07:58 unless you were abusing it Dec 10 02:09:57 lol Dec 10 02:10:11 nah Dec 10 02:10:42 just calling in for trouble on texting, i dont want them to trace it back to webos 2.1 as an unsupported operating system Dec 10 02:11:06 i doubt it Dec 10 02:11:40 awesome Dec 10 02:13:35 ugh. and now i just figured out the downside of all of this. if moving to any other hardware, we're losing binary compatibility for native apps Dec 10 02:13:46 not that there's a whole lot of those currently, but we need to figure out how to handle that Dec 10 02:16:17 yep Dec 10 02:16:35 downside to carrying two phones Dec 10 02:17:02 you feel like you have them when you leave work Dec 10 02:17:18 but in reality, the one with the sim card is sitting on the touchstone Dec 10 02:22:52 i wonder when 305 is gonna drop Dec 10 02:24:57 * EricBlade drops 305 on PuffTheM Dec 10 02:25:33 oooh 2.2.4 has MAP Dec 10 02:25:36 i totally pissed that Dec 10 02:25:38 missed that Dec 10 02:25:42 bout fucking time Dec 10 02:25:47 i'm totally pissed that i haven't received it yet Dec 10 02:25:49 thought, doesnt matter i cant use that Dec 10 02:25:58 i want map on my pixi wtf Dec 10 02:26:09 i wonder if i can just copy over the bt stack Dec 10 02:26:16 or if i need ls2 also Dec 10 02:26:26 they cant give us the source fast enough Dec 10 02:30:53 * Loudergood can't wait for the first webOS 3 pixi Dec 10 02:38:21 soooooo... is Apotheker a hero now? Dec 10 02:39:00 no Dec 10 02:39:13 ha, I keed, I keed Dec 10 02:39:47 crazy how things are set into motion though Dec 10 02:40:25 while it might be good for me and the devices I have now Dec 10 02:40:55 I'm not convinced webos as oss with no hardware vendors is Dec 10 02:41:04 but we shall see Dec 10 02:41:46 i think if you make it an attractive platform some is gonna use it Dec 10 02:42:03 some1 Dec 10 02:42:18 well sure Dec 10 02:42:20 I'm just excited at the potential prospect of this sprint pre getting some surprise love at some point in the future Dec 10 02:42:52 i think what's exciting is ability to retrofit existing hardware such as e.g. HTC Evo 3G Dec 10 02:43:50 is there a decent portrait slider out there that's not a palm phone? Dec 10 02:44:09 ...on sprint? Dec 10 02:44:23 I hear good things about Evo Shift Dec 10 02:44:56 also Epic 4G may be decent Dec 10 02:46:01 evo shift isn't portrait sliding it seems Dec 10 02:46:26 ah Dec 10 02:46:28 sorry Dec 10 02:46:38 np Dec 10 02:46:45 yeah I don't recall any portrait sliding phones on sprint :-( Dec 10 02:47:54 I wonder if this gets some additional love now https://bitbucket.org/spencerelliott/palmdroid/ Dec 10 02:48:01 gah, portraits just lend themselves to one handed use so much better than sliders Dec 10 02:48:09 agree Dec 10 02:48:14 err wait that's got dirty implications Dec 10 02:48:22 it does Dec 10 02:49:00 that said it's a great idea :-D Dec 10 02:50:21 wha, palmdroid? Dec 10 02:50:45 Dalvik VM implementation for Touchpad Dec 10 02:50:52 * dwc- srnotes not to touch vvuksan's phone Dec 10 02:51:00 -sr Dec 10 02:51:04 heh Dec 10 02:59:32 yeah Dalvik VM would be amazing, especially if you could get an android appstore client... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 10 02:59:56 2011