**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 10 02:59:56 2011 Dec 10 03:00:04 no multiboot required.. Dec 10 03:00:09 Blackberry Playbook somehow does it Dec 10 03:00:18 so there must be a way Dec 10 03:00:24 commercial port Dec 10 03:01:49 doubting that would make an "official" release though... Dec 10 03:02:36 multiple paid catalogs seems like the last thing HP needs... Dec 10 03:03:00 it's a chicken and egg problem Dec 10 03:03:20 I wonder if they are looking at Ubuntu app store as model Dec 10 03:03:33 Amazon has an Android App store Dec 10 03:03:44 anyone can start a store Dec 10 03:03:53 do they give google kickbacks? Dec 10 03:03:59 nope Dec 10 03:04:25 how does that app signing crap work? Dec 10 03:04:37 current developers would need to be released from their agreements before yusing a different store Dec 10 03:05:26 howdy folks Dec 10 03:06:40 so on android, can you by the same app from both amazon and official stores on the same device? how does that work out? Dec 10 03:06:48 jcerwinske: yep Dec 10 03:06:58 i loaded Cyangonmod on the Touchpad Dec 10 03:07:09 so they are just treated as different app ids or whatever? Dec 10 03:07:21 i downloaded Netflix from the Market and downloaded Angry Birds from Amazon Dec 10 03:07:24 wow this is weird. all of my computers have shut down their hard drives due to not using them in 30 minutes, and all their fans are running at low power. i don't think i've ever seen this before. Dec 10 03:07:27 works the same Dec 10 03:07:32 either that or all my computers just died at the same time Dec 10 03:07:33 jcerwinske: yeah Dec 10 03:08:07 nono, not different apps from different stores, I mean netflix from amazon and netflix from Market Dec 10 03:08:19 i assume it's the same Dec 10 03:08:25 i don't see a difference Dec 10 03:08:39 right, I'm just wondering how it works Dec 10 03:08:52 if the markets are 'aware' of each other Dec 10 03:09:08 they all use the same packaging system Dec 10 03:09:47 oh so it knows the package is on the device already Dec 10 03:10:01 android gets pretty screwey when you have two markets and you buy an app from the non-google one Dec 10 03:10:08 and the google one has the same app Dec 10 03:10:36 doesn't seem like they should Dec 10 03:10:40 i stand corrected Dec 10 03:11:02 they match lists, store sees if you have access to any updates it has Dec 10 03:11:30 shouldnt care whether it was originally sideloaded or from another store Dec 10 03:11:52 but I don't kow Dec 10 03:11:53 know Dec 10 03:12:01 from what i read somewhere or other a few days ago, you get the same situation that webOS has - it tries to update it from the google store when an update is available, which then causes it to blow up the app Dec 10 03:12:18 you get the same thing on webOS if you sideload an app and then an app catalog update supercedes it Dec 10 03:12:46 doesn't blow up Dec 10 03:12:48 you get dependency mixups and such? Dec 10 03:12:54 i think that was a problem exposed by the new automatic update procedure in google market Dec 10 03:12:58 it just prompts you to update Dec 10 03:13:09 and then fails when you dont have auth for it Dec 10 03:13:24 dwc-: right, but if you hit update, then it deletes the app, and tells you "Download failed!" Dec 10 03:13:39 no it doesn't... not on my pre2 anyways Dec 10 03:13:50 it leaves the dark circle, says download failed Dec 10 03:14:03 if I tap on he notification it says Dec 10 03:14:05 and then when you try to launch the app again, it loads the catalog Dec 10 03:14:07 download failed Dec 10 03:14:14 try again / don't try again Dec 10 03:14:17 dwc-: yeah I have the same Dec 10 03:14:26 dwc-: got the problem with LoanCalc Dec 10 03:14:35 and if I dont try agai, the app is still there and becomes available for use again Dec 10 03:14:53 I get that with fxspecs poker beta Dec 10 03:14:59 i don't get that on my pre+, pre-, or touchpad. i haven't tried with the pre2 yet, i've been too sick to develop Dec 10 03:15:12 and speaking of that, i'm 2 hours late from when i said i was leaving. later. Dec 10 03:15:33 sleeping? Dec 10 03:16:08 woooooo, webOS is open source??? Dec 10 03:16:25 will be Dec 10 03:16:29 congratulations HP, you did the only thing you could possibly do to guarantee you would end up with no money whatsoever Dec 10 03:16:52 could've sold it to another company at a discounted rate, could've licensed it to manufacturers, but no, we'll open source it. okay then. Dec 10 03:21:56 I think HP figures they need a competitive, open source, developer friendly, product in the enterprise Dec 10 03:22:02 you assume anyone was even remotely interested Dec 10 03:22:55 the enterprise, being where the real money is. Especially with business intelligence services, which HP is gunning for Dec 10 03:24:32 they need a platform like this that is flexible for internal enterprise modifications and custom applications, AND that can use to deploy their own intelligence platforms Dec 10 03:26:46 I can easily imagine my company taking webOS and using it to build a new POS system on Dec 10 03:27:12 the managers are all crazy for tablets Dec 10 03:27:35 and our POS is pretty much a custom linux distro anyway Dec 10 03:29:28 would they really buy into writing such a system on top of a platform thqt has no production hardware? Dec 10 03:29:52 if it were me, that sounds like a prett big business risk Dec 10 03:30:20 no that's the thing, if it's open source Dec 10 03:30:38 we just put it on whatever Dec 10 03:30:55 I mean, we're already doing that do a degree Dec 10 03:31:12 so you would then have to port it to some other similarish hardware and write the drivers, etc? Dec 10 03:31:41 seems like a pain Dec 10 03:31:58 right. We're faced with this problem ANYWAY though Dec 10 03:32:03 unless, of course, you know someone else has alread done the work Dec 10 03:32:15 some of our older in store hardware isn't manufactured anymore Dec 10 03:33:00 so we have to make changes like the to accommodate differing hardware Dec 10 03:33:02 Id be more likely to write a webapp or buy a turnkey thing Dec 10 03:33:26 so I can focus on my core business and less with futzing around with my pos POS=) Dec 10 03:34:30 we sell pizza, btw... Dec 10 03:34:36 a lot of it Dec 10 03:35:07 do you make a webs pizza? Dec 10 03:35:11 unification between in store ordering and online ordering is this holy grail Dec 10 03:35:12 *webos Dec 10 03:35:22 So everyone heard the WebOS announcement by now, I'd assume? Dec 10 03:35:55 unfortunately we are making iOS pizza now... Dec 10 03:36:23 well ok, linux pizza, but the C levels are eating it off iOS plates... Dec 10 03:36:51 From a scrollback, I'll go with Yes. Dec 10 03:37:01 Mmm Linux pizza Dec 10 03:38:08 we actually contributed a bunch of stuff back to ncurses back before I was here Dec 10 03:39:08 shadyman: yeah I'm pumped at the announcement Dec 10 03:39:37 maybe not quite yet justifiably so, but I'll take what I an get, today Dec 10 03:40:09 Though to be honest, many great things end up dead and deleted where they could be open-sourced for the community. Dec 10 03:41:24 There have been calls in pretty much every WebOS thread since the hardware discontinuation announcement, on Engadget et al (between all the trolling) calling for open-sourcing Dec 10 03:41:46 maybe someone can make it not suck now :D Dec 10 03:42:03 it's makes me think Meg maybe "get's it" more than I thought, which is perhaps the most shocking part :/ Dec 10 03:42:23 heh Dec 10 03:42:28 i’d rather mark hurd come back and fix webOS Dec 10 03:42:31 since he had plans for it Dec 10 03:42:48 but nope, HP’s not smart enough Dec 10 03:46:21 SoulShadow: gotta concentrate on the now and realistic topics. Hurd is gone and will never return Dec 10 03:46:47 well yeah, but hp killed webos when they did that Dec 10 03:47:12 just gotta move forward. no sense in dwelling on it Dec 10 03:48:26 ^^ Dec 10 03:52:30 ah but i am not dwelling in it at all Dec 10 03:52:59 in fact i already replaced webos on my touchpad with android, maybe with it being open sourced someone will make webos more useful to where it doesn’t need to be replaced Dec 10 03:55:58 * DougReeder waves hello Dec 10 05:21:42 unless I missed something, no date for the code release was given, right? Dec 10 05:22:21 right Dec 10 05:25:17 i wonder how likely it will be soon. I wanna poke at it Dec 10 05:25:40 sounded like enyo was gonna be soonish Dec 10 05:26:02 parts of webOS proper can't be open sourced yet, as they're licensed from other companies Dec 10 05:26:15 ah, interesting Dec 10 05:26:44 It'll take months Dec 10 05:27:03 sounds logical, but I was hoping for faster :P Dec 10 05:27:21 not just for me to get at it, but also so HTC and Samsung can play, too Dec 10 05:29:31 what incentives do either of them have? Dec 10 05:39:41 i'm sure there's people there that are interested Dec 10 05:41:06 I think it's in the dev account when you log in Dec 10 05:48:16 hey oh Dec 10 05:48:38 quick distracter from likely "free software" discussions.. Dec 10 05:48:44 heyyyyy o daylight come and we want to go home? Dec 10 05:48:49 (distractor?) Dec 10 05:49:11 dwc-: do you need a map? Dec 10 05:50:07 I'm pretty confident i followed the impostah steps correctly, but somehow my phone rebooted into the first use app.. arg.. Dec 10 05:50:09 I'd like MAP on my pre2 Dec 10 05:50:50 it has wifi, which is good, and is still in dev mode, which is weird (so I can't enter dev mode to bypass activation.) So what I want to know is.. Dec 10 05:52:54 are my apps+settings already toast? there's nothing in /media/cryptofs, but i'm not sure if that means it's not mounted or wiped, and either way what path may allow me to maintain contents of that dir? Dec 10 05:57:10 Trying to enter dev mode (#*devmode#) asks me to turn off dev mode, which i'm nervous to do cuz i loves me my novacom Dec 10 05:58:36 is your cryptofs mounted? Dec 10 05:58:48 dwc-: you're still using your pre2? Dec 10 05:58:57 I do still use my pre2 Dec 10 06:00:26 dwc-: probably not, haven't explored that yet Dec 10 06:00:40 ajay_: if it has rebooted, it's already toast Dec 10 06:00:45 well, that would tell you pretty quickly Dec 10 06:00:50 i mean, no its not mounted in the right place Dec 10 06:00:55 lol "I think HP figures they need a competitive, open source, developer friendly, product in the enterprise" Dec 10 06:01:17 well they've got a long way to go then, fella... it's not competitive, it's not developer friendly and it's not a factor in enterprise Dec 10 06:01:19 rwhitby: I wasn't trying to reboot, but i tried to run freetether, forget that that always causes my phones to crash Dec 10 06:02:15 impostah wouldn't log me back into my profile else i woulda.. Dec 10 06:04:03 rwhitby - did they actually release the source code or is it just the announcement? Dec 10 06:04:15 they announced an intention with no timeframe Dec 10 06:04:35 ah, thanks for the info Dec 10 06:04:43 and no license details other than "open source" Dec 10 06:04:47 they claim a timeframe is coming Dec 10 06:05:01 timeframe coming in the coming months/ Dec 10 06:05:04 summatusmentis: yet they don't have a timeframe for when the timeframe is coming Dec 10 06:05:27 rwhitby: clearly, but they're a corporation Dec 10 06:05:36 I poked around their dev, I had the notion it's in one of the resource page when you sign into the dev account Dec 10 06:05:38 probably now that the line employees know, they can start having them going through to see what needs to be done Dec 10 06:05:47 speech without substance is why they pay Apotheker 12 million to leave Dec 10 06:05:53 or whatever the number was Dec 10 06:05:57 it's what they do Dec 10 06:06:12 dwc-: I'm sure that's part of it Dec 10 06:06:13 maybe someone with a dev login can confirm? Dec 10 06:06:44 rwhitby: what OSS licensense do they allow in the app store? Dec 10 06:06:52 summatusmentis: any Dec 10 06:07:17 except for the summatus license Dec 10 06:08:49 dwc-: :) 'summatus' means supremacy in latin Dec 10 06:09:04 I think we should start a Supremacy Open Source license Dec 10 06:09:27 summatusmentis: I think it was already stated that wouldn't be allowed in the app store Dec 10 06:09:46 also, license, not licensense. Sorry, my research project is called citizensense, so I get used to writing things that way Dec 10 06:09:53 ajay_: what? Dec 10 06:09:54 :) Dec 10 06:10:19 oh, the summatus license, got it Dec 10 06:17:01 i still don't know why it booted into first use, i swear i logged out of my profile properly.. Dec 10 06:23:41 i hope hp open sources the activation servers, cuz man, this process is BS! Dec 10 06:28:23 no chance of that Dec 10 06:29:28 hehe.. Dec 10 06:29:57 hopefully we can at least get some changes to the process of using unactivated devices.. Dec 10 06:31:56 i love how phone apps never seem to know what orientatin the touchpad is actually in Dec 10 06:32:24 they do, rotation lock on Dec 10 06:32:29 it's very consistent :P Dec 10 06:32:33 ...ly wrong Dec 10 06:33:09 like, making it easier Dec 10 06:33:33 i have rot lock on, and i just cleared exhibition, and the whole phone app that i'd left running was .. (a) rotated clockwise 90deg from lock orientation, (b) the upper half of it was rotated 180 degrees from the bottom half of it Dec 10 06:36:39 what does it say in 'mount' for location of cryptofs? Dec 10 06:37:07 cryptofs on /media/cryptofs type fuse.cryptofs (rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=0,group_id=0,allow_other) Dec 10 06:37:10 s/cryptofs/media\/cryptofs/ Dec 10 06:37:18 hmm.. Dec 10 06:37:52 that looks right, maybe i am wiped.. wipe on boot, that seems right.. Dec 10 06:38:51 *shakes fist at palm* Dec 10 06:40:40 oops forgot to modify firstuse before reboot.. arg Dec 10 06:41:27 *shakes palm at sky* Dec 10 06:42:28 is that like, being angry at Dog? Dec 10 06:43:06 doG Dec 10 06:45:14 dwc-: did you still need a veer unlock btw? Dec 10 06:45:33 veer has been sitting in the box idle for months Dec 10 06:45:54 I might crack open the box again sometime Dec 10 06:46:20 haha.. like the pre2 better? Dec 10 06:47:54 haven't really had time to mess with my devices lately Dec 10 06:48:21 ah.. i'm on a bit of device overload personall Dec 10 06:48:36 y Dec 10 06:48:44 well, you did have a box of phones, right? Dec 10 06:52:04 dwc-: I've had many boxes of phones, yeah :) Dec 10 06:54:36 now that webos is open sourced...is there an x86 version available? I know it's a total long shot of a question but I had to ask Dec 10 06:55:26 no Dec 10 06:56:29 the emulator would be a good start to that though. Dec 10 06:56:31 well there's an x86 version available already, and it makes sense that that'd be open-sourced also Dec 10 06:56:42 the emulator isn't complete Dec 10 06:56:50 but haven't people booted the emulator? Dec 10 06:56:56 i mean, on real hardware? Dec 10 06:56:56 sure Dec 10 06:57:23 i haven't really thought about it -- what's it missing? Dec 10 06:59:33 I know webos uses linux kernel but does it have anything from GNU at all? Dec 10 07:04:30 hmm.. probably a minimal amount, if anything Dec 10 07:05:10 I wouldn't call it a GNU/Linux Dec 10 07:06:27 well this video suggests that an x86 port has already been made to some degree http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV_BbgUGY2g&feature=related Dec 10 07:07:12 I personally would love an open source desktop OS that I can develop on using javascript Dec 10 07:09:37 or another possibility would be to use another distro to serve webos to thin clients via LTSP Dec 10 07:10:39 and besides....what better way to develop for webos than on a PC running webos?! Dec 10 07:10:45 :) Dec 10 07:11:12 Damianos: just look at http://opensource.palm.com/3.0.4/index.html Dec 10 07:11:34 ah sweet Dec 10 07:11:41 hmm. i didn't know ICS supports touch-to-share Dec 10 07:12:05 thanks, I didn't think think the code was posted yet Dec 10 07:12:31 that video doesn't suggest a port, we already mentioned it's already built for x86, and HP's plans for webOS were more for apps.. Dec 10 07:12:56 EricBlade1: That's beyond TTS if you ask me Dec 10 07:13:14 Damianos: of course it runs on x86, that's how we develop stuff Dec 10 07:13:41 well, one way of several, that we develop stuff Dec 10 07:15:18 damn i gotta publicize next week's meetup still.. a good time to publicize, so that's a plus Dec 10 07:15:58 looking at that list of packages, i'd like to volunteer to get some of those packages that are important from a user perspective, updated to something modern, and not stuck back in the "extremely stable" branches Dec 10 07:16:39 +1 Dec 10 07:17:00 as far as i'm concerned, the first priority is to get webkit updated Dec 10 07:17:48 well, I guess that's the luck of ebay, some things sell for less than you want, others for more Dec 10 07:17:50 Some HP people have admitted in public developer forums, that that is something that they've been working on beyond 3.0.5. Dec 10 07:18:06 re: webKit upgrade Dec 10 07:18:12 EricBlade: It needs to happen for all devices, not just the touchpad Dec 10 07:18:42 * ajay_ thinks that HP should call the next webOS update "beyond 3.0.5" :) Dec 10 07:19:04 ajay_: I'm going to agree, but I think we need to see what the condition of everything is going to be when we receive it -- can we get 3.0 on everything? or is it just plain built in a fashion that won't work with the older things? Dec 10 07:19:21 didn't hp sell out of veers online when they became firesale priced? I wish they woulda seen that people want phones too, not just touchpads.. Dec 10 07:19:51 EricBlade: well, if 3.0 can run on an Evo, I assume that the only things needed for it to work on older hardware are optimizations.. Dec 10 07:19:54 will we even get the source code to 2.x, or is this "abandon the past" Dec 10 07:20:32 the question is, since even Palm was unwilling to do optimizations (battery life, 2.x on older devices, the list goes on), it is probably safe to assume they won't do that.. Dec 10 07:20:43 ajay_: i wouldn't say that was "running". yes, it was outputting to the display, but i'm guessing that there was no comms link, and nothing else was working we know. so far. Dec 10 07:20:45 and it's not a sexy project, so would people in the community take it on? Dec 10 07:21:25 EricBlade: that's all drivers, i can't imagine why it wouldn't run on older stuff.. Dec 10 07:21:50 IF it were me, spearheading an open source project, whether or not we get access to 2.x, the first thing I would do is investigate what is needed to get a single 3.0.x up on everything that currently runs webOS Dec 10 07:21:52 it does look like 3.x is built of a lot of new stuff, and not just a simply upscaling of the OS to the larger resolution, but still.. Dec 10 07:22:28 if your theory is correct, open sourced pieces of 2.x might be very helpful in getting 3.x to work on other devices Dec 10 07:23:17 obviously, if we don't get access to 2.x, then we don't have much choice in the matter. If we DO get access to 2.x, then i'd weigh how much is ncessary to get 3.0.x running on the phones, versus attempting to backport important things Dec 10 07:24:21 I'm thinking that the big concern, might be that 3.0.x may not have support for the comms hardware Dec 10 07:25:29 i imagine that most of the rest of it is just compiling with optimizations for the older processors vs the newer processors Dec 10 07:26:11 drivers.. i think that's goin to be the most important piece that _needs_ to be open sourced Dec 10 07:26:24 (aka, agreed, just wanted to say it with different language :) Dec 10 07:26:26 and getting the right drivers in. IF we get access to 2.x and 3.x then i'd like to think that we can easily take things that are needed from 2.x and bump them into the 3.x Dec 10 07:27:22 but, we'll only really know what course of action to take there when we actually get stuff Dec 10 07:27:51 I think updating 1.4.x and 2.x would find itself important. I think running even 2.x on a Pre -/+ is a little bit of a stretch, so it makes more sense to backport. I've some doubt that we can find the folks to get the code optimized Dec 10 07:29:33 2.1 on my pre+ at 1.1ghz is smooooooooooth Dec 10 07:29:39 although i haven't loaded it with all kinds of stuff though Dec 10 07:29:51 It'd be great if we could get everyone on devices that already run 2.x, and move from there. It's not the most practical strategy though. (If only HP would have firesaled Veers/Pre2s/Pre3s/touchpads to people in the [chronlogical] order that they signed up on the platform, prioritizing those that were active in the last few months) Dec 10 07:30:56 * ajay_ knows, the "if onlys" are infinite in an apotheklypse Dec 10 07:31:24 EricBlade: 2.1 on my Pre+ is.. not! :) Others have said good things to me, but i .. was an unhappy camper Dec 10 07:31:34 well.. let's not say unhappy, but it was semi-unusable to me without overclocking Dec 10 07:32:01 oh I missed your mention of CPU speed, heh.. 1.1.. i never ran it up that high.. 800 usually Dec 10 07:32:13 aren't they stock 700? Dec 10 07:32:17 500 Dec 10 07:35:52 oh bem would enjoy the Dish android app, it's orientation locked. Ugh Dec 10 07:36:27 (very Palm PDK-esque! at least for appcat apps, or so he tells me :) Dec 10 07:39:44 hmm. according to all the spec sheets i see, the pre and pre+ are 600mhz. :| i coulda swore my "default" profile said 800 on the + though Dec 10 07:39:55 or 700 Dec 10 07:40:09 oh well. maybe that's just this nasty infection that i've got addling my brain Dec 10 07:42:36 lol Dec 10 07:44:01 wow, underclocking a 600 MHz processor to 500 and STILL shitty battery life. Wow Dec 10 07:44:59 anyway, things i'd think we'd need, are a libpurple that isn't cut down, new ffmpeg and related, openal, pulseaudio, webcore, webkit Dec 10 07:45:30 maybe investigate wholesale kernel upgrades Dec 10 07:48:00 hmm, pkill LunaSysMgr? lessee.. Dec 10 07:48:12 is it possible to kill javascript processes from the cmd line? Dec 10 07:48:26 (I wanna kill first use) Dec 10 07:49:27 EricBlade: what's libpurple? assuming it's media since most of the rest is? i know we're missing codecs, but is the rest a big deal? Dec 10 07:49:32 EricBlade, pulseaudio would be fairly trivial Dec 10 07:49:41 damn, I applied the first use patch, but I hit 'Accept' and nothing happens Dec 10 07:49:52 ajay_: purple is the instant messenger connector Dec 10 07:50:29 that's just stuff that i'd think we'd want upgraded from a user's perspective. of course, i have no idea what extra bits we're going to hve that aren't already open source Dec 10 07:50:32 ah Dec 10 07:51:52 I'd like the bluetooth stack replaced with bluez Dec 10 07:53:12 we might think that, but we may need to question why they use a completely custom bluetooth engine to begin with Dec 10 07:54:01 thats what i want to know Dec 10 07:54:15 EricBlade: how do you think a user would feel updates to those libraries you mention? Dec 10 07:54:54 touchstone stuff maybe? didnt want to opensource it or couldnt get bluez to work with it? Dec 10 07:55:18 well i haven't researched the different updates to those packages since the Palm versions, but i would hope that the newer versions of those packages would all be better Dec 10 07:55:56 EricBlade: that's my question, what sort of issues are you experiencing currently that you hope might be addressed? Dec 10 07:57:48 well, libpurple with complete support would hopefully give us a quick method to get better synergy support for more protocols in. At the very least, we could hopefully quickly get general Jabber support instead of just Google Talk. FFMpeg I would hope would give us more in the way of video functionality, the audio stuff would hopefully fix our audio woes, and obviously webKit is just plain a mandatory upgrade. Dec 10 07:58:06 hm, wonder why pkillin Luna closes my novaterm connection.. eh Dec 10 07:59:28 webkit i of course agree with.. audio i wonder if the upgrades would help.. weird purple is stripped. Dec 10 07:59:39 EricBlade, webos uses gstreamer for audio and video playback. Dec 10 07:59:54 i see that there are plenty of blackberry and iOS specific things that are integrated back into webkit Dec 10 07:59:58 we need that too Dec 10 08:00:03 so that webkit just WORKS Dec 10 08:00:31 If a media type isnt supported, its because they didnt include the gstreamer plugin Dec 10 08:00:41 wrea: yeah i looked at that but didn't see that there have been any major upgrades to gstreamer since the webos 3.0.4 list Dec 10 08:01:06 yeah, its always been pretty barebones Dec 10 08:01:23 i could see replacing gstreamer for some of those porpoises, gstreamer has never exactly been the most capable software Dec 10 08:01:57 Alsa UCM support is making its way into pulseaudio Dec 10 08:02:34 EricBlade, replace it with Dec 10 08:02:35 ? Dec 10 08:03:07 mplayer, vlc, something else? Dec 10 08:03:27 depends on what plugins are available to us i guess Dec 10 08:04:09 Those are whole apps. Gstreamer is a framework that allows to be built upon Dec 10 08:04:13 as long as battery/speed optimizations and a webkit update comes, everything after that is optional Dec 10 08:04:31 As long at you arent screwed out of codec support, gstreamer works fine Dec 10 08:07:00 I believe once alsa ucm is integrated into pulse at least one of palm's pulse modules wouldnt be needed anymore Dec 10 08:08:04 this is just getting in the weeds for me, lol.. Dec 10 08:08:25 and if i understand audiod's function, that wouldnt be needed either Dec 10 08:08:25 so before i go, anyone got this device activation thing to an art? this is gettin ridiculous.. :) Dec 10 08:10:40 ajay_: what are you trying to do specifically? Dec 10 08:11:04 activate this beezy without a SIM Dec 10 08:11:24 what is it? Dec 10 08:13:26 and do you -have- an active sim? i found that to be the easiest way to activate Dec 10 08:14:03 rather than redoctoring my pre+ after i changed to my pre2, i just swapped the sim back to the pre+ temporarily, and activated it under my second webos profile, then put it back in the pre2 Dec 10 08:14:29 haha.. i wish Dec 10 08:14:31 jeez. a year ago, i never would've imagined myself sitting here with 3 smart phones and a tablet on my desk. and i'm adding a iPad soon Dec 10 08:14:36 most likely Dec 10 08:14:38 pre3 Dec 10 08:15:05 the table in front of me is getting redonkulous with phones.. at least i'm at one tablet, phew Dec 10 08:15:13 (and a borrowed notebook? okay its out of hand!) Dec 10 08:15:30 hmm. i don't know. i wasn't able to bypass activation on my 2.1 using #*DEVMODE#, so i'd just try a meta-doctor with bypass activation on Dec 10 08:15:44 get a wifi profile setup on it Dec 10 08:15:50 I think I should activate a SIM.. hopefully i can do so for free/cheap Dec 10 08:16:07 it's already got a wifi profile setup on it, it refuses to activate .. due to the invalid SIM. Dec 10 08:16:08 oh irony Dec 10 08:16:13 oh Dec 10 08:16:15 s/invalid/inactive Dec 10 08:16:17 pull the sim out Dec 10 08:16:29 at least, that's how i got my 1.4.5 activated initially Dec 10 08:16:31 then it'll complain about lack of SIM? maybe not on the pre3.. Dec 10 08:16:40 (the veer i can't figure out without a SIM in it..) Dec 10 08:16:42 i was able to go past the "no sim" but not the "inactive sim" Dec 10 08:17:10 what's that beyonce song? "If you like it then you better put a SIM in it" Dec 10 08:17:12 2.1 i couldn't seem to crack. but i'd try with no sim Dec 10 08:17:48 interesting Dec 10 08:18:53 man its crazy that h2o wireless doesn't own h2owireless.com.. heh Dec 10 08:18:58 worst case, i went to the T-Mobile store down the road, explained that I really wanted to get the $30 unlimited data plan that they are offering on t-mobile.com, but I needed to get an activation card for it. The employees logged right into the website on their computer there, hooked it all up for me, and gave me a card for $5 and i paid the $30 monthly on it Dec 10 08:20:10 or just borrow a sim from a friend Dec 10 08:20:44 yeah i tried that but the sim that i attempted to borrow didn't have data Dec 10 08:21:02 /friend/friend with a data plan/ Dec 10 08:23:59 looks like every player in the OS business except microsoft and HP are kicking things into webkit on a daily basis Dec 10 08:24:27 s/OS/phone/ Dec 10 08:24:41 rim, motorola, google, apple, nokia Dec 10 08:25:21 i don't want to be the guy responsible for -that- integration though. i'll take some lower level simpler stuff Dec 10 08:35:15 dwc-: yeah that seems like too much work :) Dec 10 08:37:36 jesus.. lol? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/12/09/rim-execs-flight.html Dec 10 08:39:32 oh i heard about that Dec 10 08:39:41 (not the chewing part!) Dec 10 08:42:26 oh wow that was easy to get an active SIM.. Dec 10 08:42:27 haha Dec 10 08:42:44 oh? Dec 10 08:43:00 oh damn i need to undo my firstuse patches, it still hangs when I hit the 'accept' button.. weird Dec 10 08:44:32 EricBlade: I ordered a bunch of SIM cards (ATT,Simple,H2O) off ebay, but haven't activated any because i couldn't decide what i wanted to do about having a phone.. like a minute online, and i have an active SIM :) Dec 10 08:44:39 (no minutes/data/etc) Dec 10 08:44:54 what did you do Dec 10 08:45:29 damn now i need another SIM so i can tweak this veer at the same time, haha Dec 10 08:46:09 what did I do about..? first use patches applied? activate H2O wireless sim w/o value? Dec 10 08:47:08 ajay_: why did you buy so many SIM cards Dec 10 08:47:23 also, simple mobile sucks, you can throw that in the garbage :( Dec 10 08:48:02 ah, i made an account at h2o (surprised me that they allowed this without getting setup firsT) .. but i didn't try to activate something with no money on it Dec 10 08:48:42 i'm wondering if all the sims are carrier specific, or if an ATT card will work on any ATT MVNO Dec 10 08:48:57 i'm new to all this GSM crap. and judging by the network quality so far, it remains crap Dec 10 08:49:33 Tommy: I thought one ran on the t-mobile network, and i could use it for unlocking, but nope! Simple because they're the 'other' provider, and AT&T because i ended up buying $50 in goPhone cards so I could do att on the cheap.. Dec 10 08:49:47 i'm new to GSM too.. I don't think it's crap, but .. well, the entire US cell system is a bit crap :) Dec 10 08:50:06 Most SIMs are either AT&T or T-Mobile MVNO as far as i can tell Dec 10 08:50:09 ajay_: simple mobile runs on t-mobile's network but the "3G" speed is 119kbps Dec 10 08:50:57 having been a sprint and verizon retailer for as long as they've had digital networks, as well as the analog systems that predated them, i feel qualified in saying, that at least in Michigan, ATT and T-Mobile f'ing suck. Dec 10 08:50:59 Tommy: I thought simple & h2o were att.. maybe i can use that to do unlocks then Dec 10 08:51:11 h2o is definitely a att mvno Dec 10 08:52:05 yeah you're right, simple is tmo.. maybe i shoulda opened that one.. ohh, but simple doesn't have minute plans, gah. maybe i should get a t-mo one Dec 10 08:53:22 is there a way to get the sim card number from inside the os somewhere? i don't really feel like digging it apart, and i wouldn't mind seeing if i can get my att sim on h2o Dec 10 08:56:04 is it not in device info? Dec 10 08:56:52 woa, the veer barrel is totally smaller than the pre barrel, can't believe i never noticed Dec 10 08:56:57 ah, ICCID Dec 10 08:57:21 hmm. the funny thing about having 3 smart phones.. is that they are all so similar, a layperson would be hard pressed to tell them apart. Dec 10 08:59:06 heh Dec 10 09:01:53 holy crap it's 1a?! what are we all doing up? Dec 10 09:02:12 i woke up again at 1am, it's 4am now Dec 10 09:02:56 damn.. thought activating this h2o sim was supposed to come with free minutes.. (*shakes fist at ebay reseller*.. oh wait maybe i was supposed to activate through him..) Dec 10 09:03:08 its not that bad...I just have to be up by 6am for the Eclipse Dec 10 09:04:10 and of course i didn't backup data before logging out of my profile, arg.. (2nd time's the charm?) Dec 10 09:05:19 is the Veer AC adapter a different amperage than the pre (I assume?) Dec 10 09:06:00 ajay, I don't think so Dec 10 09:06:38 is there any way to check without fancy equipment? drbattery maybe? Dec 10 09:06:50 just plug it into a TouchPad AC adapter, it'll figure it out Dec 10 09:07:09 how so? Dec 10 09:07:31 the touchpad's is bigger still, and is 1A in contrast Dec 10 09:07:38 it'll use whatever amount of current it can Dec 10 09:08:28 touchpad chargers are awesome. everything charges faster with them :D Dec 10 09:11:11 ajay_: so.. which plan did you select on h2o Dec 10 09:11:21 or can you just select anything and just not load it Dec 10 09:11:21 EricBlade: minute Dec 10 09:11:47 but i want to know if they provide the same current. always nice to have something smaller that does the same job Dec 10 09:12:03 EricBlade: I think if i activated it through wirelesspoint i would have gotten free minutes/credit though Dec 10 09:12:16 i think all of the phones use the same adapters Dec 10 09:12:58 ok looks like you can select any plan, and they'll just email you an activation receipt Dec 10 09:13:01 ajay_, you can't read it on the adapter? Dec 10 09:13:04 gah i'm just going to give up on putting the veer in passthrough Dec 10 09:13:21 Brybry: haha Dec 10 09:13:28 FCC regulations and all... Dec 10 09:14:57 Brybry: that'll teach me to leave the original plastic on it! Looks like they're the same, 1A, and the touchpad is 2A. had that wrong, interesting.. Dec 10 09:16:11 ah i think i know why it's smaller, the veer adapter doesn't have the switching Dec 10 09:17:38