**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 13 02:59:57 2011
Dec 13 03:00:06 <madnificent> though /all/ the UI needs to be converted, i think the only thing that would stay would be the database model with its triggers, though that's rather advanced as well.
Dec 13 03:00:50 <madnificent> oil: it's sad, i don't have time to dev it further.  i'm willing to open source it if someone would take over, but that seems to be hard.
Dec 13 03:01:01 <zephjc> unfortunately i dont know about the differences between the two frameworks, other than Enyo = new, Mojo = old
Dec 13 03:01:42 <oil> heh
Dec 13 03:01:48 <madnificent> zephjc: well basically:  i can give you an sql database model for an advanced tasks application, all else is yours.  tbh, i'd love for you to try, but i wouldn't try it if i were you.
Dec 13 03:01:49 <bnceo> sup sup
Dec 13 03:02:12 <madnificent> bnceo: webos is awesome, that's up!
Dec 13 03:02:18 <bnceo> that is is
Dec 13 03:02:21 <bnceo> it is*
Dec 13 03:02:44 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 03:03:01 <madnificent> zephjc: but if you want to try, just /msg me :)
Dec 13 03:03:22 <zephjc> this a good summary of tasks@hand? http://www.webosnation.com/app-review-gtd-tasks-hand
Dec 13 03:04:02 <madnificent> it's the best you'll find online.  if you have an emulator running, i can mail you the app.
Dec 13 03:04:43 <madnificent> i still charge for it in the app catalog, but it's not like it actually costs something meaningful.  and i don't quite care about the revenue anymore either.
Dec 13 03:04:54 <zephjc> i do - can i install it via attachments in Mail for webOS?
Dec 13 03:04:59 <madnificent> it has received some more features since then
Dec 13 03:05:11 <madnificent> zephjc: i think you can use palm-install, iirc
Dec 13 03:05:19 <zephjc> ok cool
Dec 13 03:05:31 <oil> if you have preware, it will handle and install a package in email
Dec 13 03:05:50 <zephjc> i dont
Dec 13 03:06:02 <zephjc> no App Catalog in the emu image :)
Dec 13 03:06:03 <rwhitby> http://bit.ly/phd-ac will fix that for you
Dec 13 03:06:12 <oil> you can install preware in the emu
Dec 13 03:06:17 <zephjc> nice
Dec 13 03:06:18 <zephjc> getting
Dec 13 03:06:23 <oil> download the i386 ipk and palm-install
Dec 13 03:06:26 <rwhitby> oh, emulator. http://install.preware.org/
Dec 13 03:06:58 <rwhitby> use the i686 ipk from http://get.preware.org/ and then have it update itself in the emulator.
Dec 13 03:07:11 <zephjc> alrighty
Dec 13 03:07:48 <zephjc> what is preware - a bootstrapper for some missing apps?
Dec 13 03:08:34 <zephjc> nevermind, im RTFM :)
Dec 13 03:08:41 <oil> homebrew catalog
Dec 13 03:10:04 <madnificent> it is the reason i can really like my pre
Dec 13 03:11:24 <madnificent> i did dislike the complexity for backward swipe support in the emulator, i seem to recall finding that annoying.
Dec 13 03:11:45 <oil> escape?
Dec 13 03:11:55 <madnificent> oil: forward swipe, perhaps?
Dec 13 03:12:04 <oil> one of the other buttons
Dec 13 03:12:06 <zephjc> up swipe is Fn-left arrow on my mac
Dec 13 03:12:13 <madnificent> zephjc: also, /msg me your address now if you want to try it, it's 4:00 here and i want to get to bed :)
Dec 13 03:12:14 <zephjc> (no home key on my macbook pro)
Dec 13 03:12:23 <madnificent> oil: :P
Dec 13 03:12:51 <madnificent> oil: i found it extremely anoying in enyo that the swipe support was gone
Dec 13 03:13:19 <oil> what about enyo on phone?
Dec 13 03:13:29 <oil> isn't there a gesture you can handle?
Dec 13 03:13:38 <madnificent> i don't think the api for that is/was published.
Dec 13 03:14:07 <zephjc> my IRC crashed trying to do a drag n drop operation it didnt like lol
Dec 13 03:14:52 <oil> you're right, it doesn't work in the new maps app
Dec 13 03:15:53 <oil> https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=18764
Dec 13 03:15:57 <oil> { kind: enyo.ApplicationEvents, onBack: "goBack" }
Dec 13 03:16:01 <oil> there is
Dec 13 03:16:26 <zephjc> the event-as-string reminds me of ObjC messages a bit
Dec 13 03:16:48 <oil> well then you define goBack: function()
Dec 13 03:16:53 <zephjc> yeah
Dec 13 03:17:11 <zephjc> i meant that it gracefully doesnt error if it cant find the fn
Dec 13 03:17:25 <oil> yeah
Dec 13 03:18:46 <oil> they should fix the maps app to use that...
Dec 13 03:23:16 <zephjc> is Preware a replacement for App Catalog, or does it contain AC too?
Dec 13 03:24:06 <oil> it did before they turned off the catalog feeds
Dec 13 03:24:08 <oil> now its seperate
Dec 13 03:27:32 <Ziomatrix> So has anyone come up with a roadmap on the WebOS will be worked on now that it going to be open sourced? Will porting it to new hardware be a priority or compatibility with more audio and video formats?
Dec 13 03:29:08 <amjad_> Everything is in dark now, regarding Webos
Dec 13 03:29:38 <SoulShadow> hp said they'd continue hardware dev
Dec 13 03:29:45 <balrog_> yes, for tablets
Dec 13 03:29:47 <balrog_> no more phones
Dec 13 03:29:50 <zephjc> will be in the dark until next year
Dec 13 03:30:06 <Ziomatrix> speaking of tablets who here got the shaft during HP's Sunday promo?
Dec 13 03:30:32 <balrog_> I already have one so I didn't try :/
Dec 13 03:30:38 <balrog_> [also I'm broke]
Dec 13 03:31:07 <Ziomatrix> balrog_: well I guess I should look on the bright side that I can save up for a Pre 3 :P
Dec 13 03:31:09 <zephjc> yeah i have lots of bills/debt hehe
Dec 13 03:31:14 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 03:31:15 <Shadyman> I'm with balrog_ on this.
Dec 13 03:31:46 <EricBlade> We should hang a sign on the front door here "GO ENJOY THE HOLIDAYS AND WE'LL MAYBE HAVE A OPEN SOURCE TIMEFRAME SOMETIME IN THE NEW YEAR, MERRY CHRISTMAS."
Dec 13 03:32:26 <Ziomatrix> or hope that someone can port WebOS to that MIPs based Novo 7 tablet coming out, its going to have a $99 price tag too. Great specs only worse 800x480 screen if it is anything like their last tablets
Dec 13 03:33:13 <Ziomatrix> but I would believe some optimizing needs to be done to make current WebOS products seem more modernized and complete before porting is considered
Dec 13 03:33:15 <amjad_> Ziomatrix: i fear WebOs is going the Meego way, Nokia said we will continue development and they had 1 product launched and thats it, end of Meeg
Dec 13 03:34:14 <zephjc> did they OS Meego?
Dec 13 03:34:24 <Ziomatrix> amjad_: unlike Nokia, HP is has already been one of M$'s whipping boys so the only way they can get their shares up is moving up in support of their acquisitions. ;)
Dec 13 03:34:46 <Ziomatrix> amjad_: like the saying goes when you hit rock bottom
Dec 13 03:36:26 <amjad_> Ziomatrix, here is the thing, the Man behind Meego @ Nokia is now now behind Webos @HP
Dec 13 03:36:39 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: Meego was open source but when it came to certain parts of the utilizing the codec in relation to the TI OMAP CPUs Nokia kept the firmware closed.
Dec 13 03:37:06 <amjad_> i hope he does not repeat his Meego mistake with Webos
Dec 13 03:37:21 <zephjc> well they can only OS as much as they own
Dec 13 03:37:31 <Ziomatrix> amjad_: If Meg is really in it to win I hope she lines him up along with Tod Bradely and the rest of the WebOS hopefuls left against the M$ in the Board of Directors.
Dec 13 03:37:36 <Ziomatrix> M$ moles
Dec 13 03:37:37 <zephjc> anything licensed will have to be removed
Dec 13 03:37:52 <bnceo> Ziomatrix: if I had to guess, it's going to be a multiple front effort
Dec 13 03:38:11 <bnceo> some will work on getting webOS to boot on devices. Others will start adding features, apis, etc
Dec 13 03:38:27 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: it would be removed for the source code that is being released, not for devices they intend to support.
Dec 13 03:38:34 <zephjc> true
Dec 13 03:38:44 <zephjc> released as a stand-along closed ource module
Dec 13 03:38:47 <zephjc> source*
Dec 13 03:39:17 <zephjc> i mentioned earlier ive started a list of UI issues
Dec 13 03:39:21 <zephjc> issues to me, anyway
Dec 13 03:39:32 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: they can also very easily do opt-in ware that is in the OS but is installed by the user on an opt-in basis. Its done all the time with popular Linux desktop distros.
Dec 13 03:39:33 <zephjc> tho as i wrote it i noticed some parts making webOS more iOS-like lol
Dec 13 03:40:30 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: heresy! >:-( hkjk
Dec 13 03:41:06 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 03:41:23 <Ziomatrix> bnceo: I always wondered why WebOS couldn't be patched to support OGG and FLAC?
Dec 13 03:42:08 <zephjc> im sure it will be :)
Dec 13 03:42:14 <EricBlade> webOS does support OGG
Dec 13 03:42:34 <EricBlade> i think
Dec 13 03:42:49 <EricBlade> i don't have any ogg files to check
Dec 13 03:43:20 <balrog> what in webOS is closed-source?
Dec 13 03:43:20 * zephjc checks via wikipedia
Dec 13 03:43:29 <balrog> any kernel drivers?
Dec 13 03:43:32 <Ziomatrix> EricBlade: I have one OGG song I never seemed to get to work
Dec 13 03:43:46 <EricBlade> Ziomatrix: i -think- it's new in 3.0.4
Dec 13 03:44:13 <Ziomatrix> EricBlade: another way I missing out with my Pre+ and no Touchpad :(
Dec 13 03:44:29 <zephjc> didnt work in the emulator
Dec 13 03:44:44 <EricBlade> balrog: things that i'm aware of are voice recognition, codecs, database stuff
Dec 13 03:45:08 <EricBlade> ooh, gvoice recently sold it's 800th unit.  party!
Dec 13 03:45:13 <zephjc> yeah someone gonna make Siri for webOS? just need a massive server farm for powering it ;)
Dec 13 03:45:51 <EricBlade> well, isn't that the sort of thing that Autonomy will be useful for?
Dec 13 03:45:53 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: we shouldn't call it Siri, but HAL :-D
Dec 13 03:46:22 <zephjc> Siri is a bigger smart-ass than HAL ever was
Dec 13 03:47:03 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: exactly ;) :P and well it comes with the territory of who acquired them
Dec 13 03:47:37 <zephjc> heh
Dec 13 03:47:59 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: I still think "I'm sorry (insert username), I'm afraid I can't do that." to certain responses would be the GURU meditation error of the 21st century. :-)
Dec 13 03:48:30 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: I mean as a response to something it can't do.
Dec 13 03:48:30 <zephjc> hah
Dec 13 03:48:34 <zephjc> yes hehe
Dec 13 03:49:31 <zephjc> Tasks@hand doesnt seem too complex
Dec 13 03:51:02 <Ziomatrix> EricBlade: nice, we got to show the small and dedicated userbase of WebOS is like the wide open west where anyone with the means, will and right stuff can create a solid niche for themselves. As apposed the hullabaloo of a tsunami of apps to shuffle through where many but the biggest names are discarded into the unknown that is iOS and soon to be if not already Android.
Dec 13 03:52:15 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: that's what they always say, we should take a page out of the current Amiga community in dedication for over 2 decades and are just now getting two solid products as well as a more complete open source OS.
Dec 13 03:52:31 <bnceo> can we get some barcoding apps! Goodness man!
Dec 13 03:52:33 <bnceo> I love those
Dec 13 03:52:37 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 03:52:46 <zephjc> qr codes!
Dec 13 03:52:52 <bnceo> F* that
Dec 13 03:52:57 <Ziomatrix> bnceo: I have a QR app, but it sucks because my Pre+'s camera can't focus :(
Dec 13 03:53:09 <Shadyman> ^^^
Dec 13 03:53:09 <zephjc> scan a random qr code, install a virus!
Dec 13 03:53:13 <bnceo> iPod Touch can do barcodes without autofocus
Dec 13 03:53:56 <zephjc> InstallRoulette - install a random app that may or may not suck or destroy your system
Dec 13 03:54:06 <Ziomatrix> bnceo: it still has a better resolution camera though, so then how can you explain why we have a hard time reading them even in the most seemingly ideal conditions?
Dec 13 03:54:27 <bnceo> resolution doesn't mean a ton
Dec 13 03:54:35 <EricBlade> i scanned a QR off my monitor on my TouchPad once, and it was legible
Dec 13 03:56:23 <zephjc> the tasks app with iOS 5 is pretty close to useless without Siri - dunno why it even installs on anything less than an iPhone 4S
Dec 13 03:56:35 <Ziomatrix> bnceo: so then how else can you explain it, color issues, problems with the API in WebOS v1.4.5x?
Dec 13 03:56:53 <bnceo> it's an API issue with webOS. the tech just isn't fully baked
Dec 13 03:57:00 <bnceo> at least that's what I think
Dec 13 03:57:18 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: why do they allow most of the current apps to install on anything less then an iPhone 4S? :P
Dec 13 03:57:35 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 03:57:58 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: I think its worse for Android in that respect though
Dec 13 03:59:06 <zephjc> i have a 4, and my father in law has a 3GS, and the app ecosystem is still great on em both
Dec 13 03:59:25 <zephjc> very inclusice across devices
Dec 13 03:59:52 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: at least there is a complete doc editing application across all devices.
Dec 13 04:00:35 <zephjc> ?
Dec 13 04:01:10 <Ziomatrix> I got an auto response from Picsel that they would look into my inquiry concerning why their Smart Office is not on the WebOS v1.4.5x catalog despite that there should be support for Enyo all around now.
Dec 13 04:01:56 <zephjc> is enyo a much different framework from what came before?
Dec 13 04:03:31 <madnificent>   zephjc: yup
Dec 13 04:03:41 <zephjc> seems Terminal doesnt work, at least on the emu
Dec 13 04:03:51 <zephjc> (via Preware)
Dec 13 04:04:42 <zephjc> and it only supports the Pre form-factor, not tablet
Dec 13 04:04:43 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: I would say yes but others here would be more knowledgeable in the differences between Mojo that came before and Enyo. One difference I know is Java was a big part of Mojo's framework and Enyo dropped that while the SDK still runs on Java.
Dec 13 04:05:07 <zephjc> gotcha
Dec 13 04:05:10 <zephjc> good riddance
Dec 13 04:06:16 <zephjc> seems like an easy app to make, Terminal, a good one for the tablet
Dec 13 04:06:27 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: it seemed like a smart move then and a brilliant move now.
Dec 13 04:06:44 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 04:07:15 <zephjc> lol a Megan Fox app
Dec 13 04:07:35 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: are you kidding? Someone made an entire Megan Fox theme
Dec 13 04:07:41 <zephjc> hah
Dec 13 04:07:48 <zephjc> she's such old news
Dec 13 04:08:37 <zephjc> Breakfast Club Soundboard haha
Dec 13 04:08:54 <zephjc> "You mean Breakfast Club Sandwich, right?"
Dec 13 04:09:30 <zephjc> something to be said for restricting apps submissions in an app store lol
Dec 13 04:11:20 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: restricting? I look forward to being able to boot UAE with games and all.
Dec 13 04:12:13 <zephjc> are people going to start just targeting tablets now?
Dec 13 04:15:38 <Ziomatrix> zephjc: I hope not but that maybe :-/ All they have to do is design strictly around WebOS v3
Dec 13 04:15:58 <zephjc> yeah
Dec 13 04:20:34 <zephjc> im gonna read up on Getting Things Done - gnite!
Dec 13 04:22:03 <PatrickC> onto my 4th support rep of the night :/
Dec 13 04:23:54 * DougReeder waves hello
Dec 13 04:25:45 <PatrickC> hey DougReeder!
Dec 13 04:26:04 <DougReeder> Hi, hi!
Dec 13 04:26:23 * PatrickC grumbles at the HP online tech support...
Dec 13 04:26:34 <PatrickC> lets hope i get a working phone number this time....
Dec 13 04:27:21 <DougReeder> "We have some proprietary code that we've got to get out of," HP's Greenblatt said. "It's only 11 pieces of code, and one of them is the database. "
Dec 13 04:27:38 <DougReeder> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/linux-community/73937.html
Dec 13 04:28:07 <DougReeder> I wonder if that means DB8 or something else?
Dec 13 04:29:45 <halfhalo> hah... web support
Dec 13 04:31:14 <PatrickC> they have given me 3 numbers.. all of which have nothing to do with webOS
Dec 13 04:31:32 <PatrickC> they are all HP ones that have no mention of phones or webOS at all
Dec 13 04:31:43 <EricBlade> "The question of which open source organization will get webOS is "still under discussion," Greenblatt stated."?
Dec 13 04:31:54 <EricBlade> that sounds like "we're giving it away and running away! hahaha"
Dec 13 04:36:26 <Ziomatrix> straight from the horse's mouth how the HP WebOS open source saga is playing out: http://bit.ly/srlLNk
Dec 13 04:36:36 <Ziomatrix> oops wrong channel :P
Dec 13 04:36:57 <Ziomatrix> I got to work on my headlines, I guess this is why I wouldn't be a good blogger :D
Dec 13 04:38:11 <PatrickC> because of an error on HP's servers i got no coding done tonight :/
Dec 13 04:58:12 <Ziomatrix> PatrickC: thats a bummer, do you still get compensated for your time?
Dec 13 05:00:20 <PatrickC> Ziomatrix, na. its a dev device and im on my own time right now :)
Dec 13 05:00:34 <PatrickC> its been close to 2 hours since i started this whole thing :/
Dec 13 05:05:35 <Ziomatrix> PatrickC: do you think WebOS can be ported to MIPs any time soon? How hard would it be as apposed to porting to another ARM device?
Dec 13 05:06:08 <PatrickC> not sure. that would probable be more of a question for #webos-internals :)
Dec 13 05:07:10 <PatrickC> probably*
Dec 13 05:07:15 <Ziomatrix> still do you find this promo any cheesier than HP's "Everybody On" one? http://youtu.be/2i41fA9WfsA
Dec 13 05:08:14 <DougReeder> I'm spearheading a port to an ARM netbook- http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Netbook
Dec 13 05:09:16 <Ziomatrix> DougReeder: I'm only stating a MIPs port would be good because of a $99 MIPs tablet bustling with USB and HDMI ports is coming out as well as MIPs is a truly open hardware architecture.
Dec 13 05:09:35 <PatrickC> Ziomatrix, wow.. that video.. just wow lol
Dec 13 05:10:55 <Ziomatrix> PatrickC: hopefully it doesn't kill its chances at success like the Sprint and Verizon ads did for the Pre :P
Dec 13 05:15:39 <PatrickC> almost 30 minutes. not a word from the palm online support guy...
Dec 13 05:15:43 <Ziomatrix> PatrickC: btw, this is coming from a company named Ainol.
Dec 13 05:15:52 <PatrickC> sugardave should really get me some good support ;)
Dec 13 05:16:05 <DougReeder> A MIPS port would be a lot of work - I don't know that anyone has ported WebKit to MIPS.
Dec 13 05:16:06 <PatrickC> Ziomatrix, this =? the tablet?
Dec 13 05:16:23 <Ziomatrix> PatrickC: yup now. now try to phonetically pronounce that word
Dec 13 05:16:33 <PatrickC> lol
Dec 13 05:16:50 <Ziomatrix> DougReeder: there is an Android tablet running on MIPs, they use Webkit.
Dec 13 05:17:20 <Hendikins> Ziomatrix: Interesting company name there.
Dec 13 05:18:36 <Ziomatrix> Hendikins: the tablet is called Novo, which is Portuguese for new. I guess its prices will rip Apple a new... I'll stop joking now :P
Dec 13 05:21:31 * DougReeder waves goodnight
Dec 13 05:26:47 <EricBlade> hmm. my pre + has just stopped workign entirely
Dec 13 05:27:03 <PatrickC> my pre3 did that tonight too :/
Dec 13 05:28:51 <EricBlade> f'in weird. reseating the battery fixed it
Dec 13 05:31:02 <PatrickC> weird
Dec 13 05:31:07 <PatrickC> i wish mine was that simple :/
Dec 13 05:31:16 <halfhalo> its like windows!
Dec 13 05:31:17 <PatrickC> so.. EricBlade, hows gvoice been?
Dec 13 05:31:25 <EricBlade> good good
Dec 13 05:31:29 <PatrickC> halfhalo, do not compare the pre3 to windows. its no comparison :P
Dec 13 05:31:37 <PatrickC> EricBlade, nice
Dec 13 05:32:01 <EricBlade> counting the Pre version, we'll close 1k sales this month probably
Dec 13 05:32:06 <EricBlade> total
Dec 13 05:32:14 * PatrickC wonders if the time being 94 days off has anything to do with it not restoring the backup :P
Dec 13 05:32:21 <PatrickC> EricBlade, nice!
Dec 13 05:32:51 <EricBlade> if my updates go through
Dec 13 05:33:00 <PatrickC> what will the updates bring?
Dec 13 05:33:10 * PatrickC le sigh.. didnt work :/
Dec 13 05:34:21 <rwhitby> PatrickC: time being off will stop any communication with profile servers over https
Dec 13 05:34:23 <EricBlade> a few bug fixes, tab-based layout for phones, some ui tweaks, dialer keypad for phones, voicemail playback on pre3
Dec 13 05:34:45 <PatrickC> rwhitby, i just fixed my time and it seems that it still isnt restoring my profile data
Dec 13 05:35:04 <rwhitby> have you looked in the logs and ls-monitor to see why?
Dec 13 05:35:07 <PatrickC> EricBlade, and calling over wifi? :)
Dec 13 05:35:22 <PatrickC> rwhitby, nope. ive been trying to just get the device to halfway work..
Dec 13 05:35:24 <EricBlade> only if you have a working Linphone
Dec 13 05:35:39 <ipad_owner> guys, modem fw version is the same as 2.1.2? it's all about hp veer
Dec 13 05:36:29 <PatrickC> rwhitby, just got it back into dev mode. ill cehck those
Dec 13 05:36:37 <PatrickC> thanks for the idea. i never thought of checking the logs
Dec 13 05:36:50 <EricBlade> my TouchPad just autocorrected "mindboggled" to "Kingslayer".  what?
Dec 13 05:40:24 <PatrickC> hmm... 2011-12-13T05:31:50.963348Z [71] webos-device user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS}: com.palm.app.firstuse: warning, script load failed for file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/controllers/back-tutorial-override-assistant.js, either remove the script or fix the src path., palmInitFramework2112:7
Dec 13 05:44:42 <PatrickC> thats.. odd.. it didnt work before and now it is....
Dec 13 05:44:46 <PatrickC> weird
Dec 13 05:46:46 <PatrickC> night guys
Dec 13 06:31:45 * EricBlade wonders if he integrated an iTunes function into a webOS app, if there'd be a lynch mob waiting for him outside the App Catalog
Dec 13 06:32:36 <halfhalo> doubt it
Dec 13 06:34:02 <EricBlade> i'd rather find another provider, but it seems rather difficult to locate anyone other than Apple who has considered that maybe someone might want to offer somethign for sale via a mobile app
Dec 13 06:49:14 <balrog> EricBlade: what function?
Dec 13 06:51:49 <Ziomatrix> EricBlade: Amazon?
Dec 13 06:53:29 <EricBlade> looking to be able to search via API products for sale, and provide links to purchase them
Dec 13 06:53:40 <EricBlade> amazon's api won't cut it because they require it be on a web server
Dec 13 06:53:59 <balrog> ahhh
Dec 13 07:15:26 <EricBlade> wow the new casino opening south of me an hour screens for nicotine on their drug tests
Dec 13 07:55:00 <panel> hello
Dec 13 09:05:11 <EricBlade> whoever designed javascript is in league with Satan
Dec 13 09:07:29 <cryptk> I think NetScape started it
Dec 13 09:07:35 <ka6sox> EricBlade, I'll trade you Cobol for Javascript
Dec 13 09:08:11 <EricBlade> let's see.  things i can do with knowledge of Cobol: maintain ancient bits of the telephone system
Dec 13 09:08:17 <EricBlade> things I can do with Javascript: a whole lot more
Dec 13 09:08:38 <cryptk> yep, not only was it netscape... I got you a name
Dec 13 09:08:39 <cryptk> JavaScript was originally developed by Brendan Eich of Netscape under the name Mocha, which was later renamed to LiveScript, and finally to JavaScript mainly because it was more influenced by the Java programming language.[10][11]
Dec 13 09:08:54 <cryptk> that's according to WikiPedia
Dec 13 09:08:56 <EricBlade> Brendan Eich is Satan
Dec 13 09:09:10 <cryptk> lol
Dec 13 09:09:51 <EricBlade> so, i'm doing a little bit of logic with handling Dragging of objects around, right
Dec 13 09:10:49 <EricBlade> pick something up, and move it around on a list.  When you move it over an item, I call renderRow() on the item that you're now moving over, and I call it on the row that you just moved away from, so that they can both update their display
Dec 13 09:11:20 <EricBlade> when i do this, inside the rendering calls of the new one, "this" is equal to the old one, and inside the old one, "this" is equal to the new one.
Dec 13 09:17:49 * EricBlade head asplodes
Dec 13 09:18:52 <cryptk> EricBlade, apply the fire thoroughly and repeatedly until death has been achieved
Dec 13 09:20:16 <EricBlade> i'm not sure i'm ever going to understand how lists work
Dec 13 09:20:41 <cryptk> if you thinks lists are weird... try messing with the built in wordpress table stuff
Dec 13 09:20:42 <cryptk> lol
Dec 13 09:22:24 <EricBlade> php software tends to be very excessively overcomplex
Dec 13 09:23:56 <EricBlade> i do not in the slightest bit understand how it is that this.$.X.setY() can work, but querying this.$.X.y returns whatever was set in the last row, always
Dec 13 09:23:57 <dwc-> if it's not complex, it's swiss-cheesed to all hell
Dec 13 09:38:34 <Proximity> Hi there, I had the "too many cards"-error without any open cards on my Pre² this night on the touchstone. The initiated reboot still freezes at the hardcoded HP-Logo. Is there any solution except doctoring the device?
Dec 13 09:39:05 <dwc-> HP touchpad accessories: office depot... touchstone $30, keyboard $20
Dec 13 09:39:41 <dwc-> sounds like a memory leak
Dec 13 09:39:53 <dwc-> shut it down completely, boot it up again, see if it still does it
Dec 13 09:39:54 <klausa> Link?
Dec 13 09:40:03 <klausa> dwc-: ^-
Dec 13 09:40:12 <dwc-> klausa: in-store only
Dec 13 09:40:18 <dwc-> but
Dec 13 09:40:18 <klausa> Ah.
Dec 13 09:40:28 <dwc-> http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/277989/HP-Touchstone-Charging-Dock-For-HP/
Dec 13 09:40:40 <dwc-> + $10 off coupon
Dec 13 09:40:46 <Proximity> still does the freeze. I already removed the battery
Dec 13 09:41:04 <Proximity> and it still hangs
Dec 13 09:41:21 <dwc-> the non-pulsing logo?
Dec 13 09:42:36 <Proximity> the nonpulsing-one. I have a custom "palm" bootlogo. And it freezes at the hardcoded HP logo
Dec 13 09:44:53 <Brybry> dwc-, would a $10 off coupon actually work with that? most office depot coupons say that they don't work with electronics/computer/accessories/ink/etc
Dec 13 09:45:32 <EricBlade> where do we get a coupon?
Dec 13 09:48:53 <dwc-> it's the officemax 10 off 30 coupon... officedepot accepts competitor's coupons
Dec 13 09:49:17 <Brybry> meh, looks like slickdeals is using an officemax coupon as a competitor's coupon
Dec 13 09:49:18 <Brybry> I Swear
Dec 13 09:49:31 <Brybry> slickdeals gets scammier every day
Dec 13 09:49:42 <dwc-> that's not scammy
Dec 13 09:50:16 <dwc-> OM and OD are actually competitors and their policy is to take them
Dec 13 09:51:20 <dwc-> scammy is like pricematching that $130 kindle fire that was at ONE target store to every walmart and other target under the sun
Dec 13 09:51:57 <dwc-> $139? whatever it was
Dec 13 09:52:18 <Brybry> or the things where people use coupons to buy gift cards and then use the gift cards to buy more gift cards because they found a low IQ cashier ._.
Dec 13 09:53:51 <dwc-> well, even if you don't like the coupon
Dec 13 09:53:58 <dwc-> $40 touchstone
Dec 13 09:54:24 <dwc-> $10 cheaper than I got it from OD, and I had to pay shipping because it was 49.99 and I didn't realize I should have ordered a pack of pens or something
Dec 13 09:56:06 <EricBlade> hey they are giving away a touchpad today
Dec 13 09:56:11 <dwc-> but yes, there are practices popular that I don't agree with and won't do (pretending I'm still a student, pretending I'm eligible for shareholder/employee/affiliate discounts, etc)
Dec 13 10:58:04 <Proximity> I can get my freezing  Pre² to soft reboot using Opt.+Sym.+R. The screen goes black for some seconds and shows the spinning blob "do not remove the battery". Some sconds later the HP-Logo is shown and for a second it gets darker (no pulsing darker - just dark and back))
Dec 13 11:22:55 <rwhitby> Proximity: you need to do a recovery mode doctor
Dec 13 11:23:31 <panel> have somebody tried Veer 2.2.4 update ?
Dec 13 11:37:40 <Proximity> rwhitby: thank you
Dec 13 11:37:57 <Proximity> i'll do so
Dec 13 11:41:12 <fxspec06> hello my fellow morningbirds
Dec 13 11:41:22 <fxspec06> what's new
Dec 13 11:46:00 <panel> fxspec06 I have tried Veer 2.2.4 update, but it stuck
Dec 13 11:46:12 <panel> I'm trying to webos doctor
Dec 13 11:46:19 <panel> cross your fingers :)
Dec 13 11:47:04 <panel> fxspec06 sorry I didn't say hello to you :)
Dec 13 11:48:22 <panel> moment of truth
Dec 13 11:48:24 <panel> :))
Dec 13 11:48:26 <panel> restarting
Dec 13 11:50:23 <fxspec06> that stinks
Dec 13 11:50:36 <fxspec06> i'm waiting for pre2 2.2.4 update
Dec 13 11:50:43 <panel> me too
Dec 13 11:50:48 <fxspec06> i haven't checked the webos internals forum @precentral recently
Dec 13 11:50:50 <panel> I need skype for my work
Dec 13 11:50:54 <panel> that's all
Dec 13 11:50:56 * fxspec06 wonders what they've been up to lately
Dec 13 11:51:03 <EricBlade> wow.  html caching in apps blows just as hard as it does in the web browser
Dec 13 11:51:10 <fxspec06> been busy w/ school and lots of other crap
Dec 13 11:51:17 <fxspec06> pretty soon i'll be in here all day every day
Dec 13 11:51:21 <fxspec06> til jan 16th ish
Dec 13 11:52:54 <panel> fxspec06 some exams ?
Dec 13 11:54:13 <panel> btw. phone seems to be working
Dec 13 11:54:46 <panel> I have to check partitions, it freezed with message: The fun begins. DESTROYING ALL YOUR VEER PARTITIONS :D
Dec 13 11:56:20 <fxspec06> ya finishing up semester this week
Dec 13 11:56:35 <fxspec06> last day of classes today. got one quiz today, then two exams thursday
Dec 13 11:56:48 <panel> busy week
Dec 13 11:56:50 <fxspec06> then presenting a project monday. i'm basically lined up for 2 100's and a 95+
Dec 13 11:56:52 <panel> what are you studying ?
Dec 13 11:57:10 <fxspec06> CIS programming at 2 yr college
Dec 13 11:57:25 <fxspec06> if i get str8 a's i get scholarship $$$$$$
Dec 13 11:57:32 <fxspec06> this is the goal
Dec 13 11:57:51 <fxspec06> kinda seems ridiculous at the moment, but it's basically just one step at a time
Dec 13 12:00:11 <panel> rwhitby please can you help me to get partitions info ?
Dec 13 12:00:39 <panel> i found lvm.static binary
Dec 13 12:05:44 <panel> fxspec06 I will cross my fingers on thursday
Dec 13 12:08:37 <fxspec06> yeah i think i should be good
Dec 13 12:08:45 <fxspec06> if i get a c or better i'll get an a-
Dec 13 12:09:02 <fxspec06> if i get a b or better i'll get an a. and if i get a a then i get like an a+
Dec 13 12:09:21 <panel> :)
Dec 13 12:10:57 <EricBlade> anyone who's playing with XO beta, be on the lookout for a new one in about an hour or so
Dec 13 12:11:19 <fxspec06> i'm out. bbwl.
Dec 13 12:13:03 <rwhitby> panel: lvm.static lvdisplay
Dec 13 12:14:54 <panel> rwhitby thank you
Dec 13 12:15:40 <panel> great, every partition size is ok
Dec 13 12:16:48 <panel> when I get some courage, I will try it again
Dec 13 12:16:50 <panel> :D
Dec 13 12:20:23 <Hazel|work> bah
Dec 13 12:21:05 <Hazel|work> I'm running 3.0.4 on my TouchPad
Dec 13 12:21:26 <Hazel|work> I've gone into USB Mass Storage mode and transferred some music
Dec 13 12:21:32 <Hazel|work> both in FLAC and Ogg format
Dec 13 12:21:43 <Hazel|work> and it's not showing up afterwards in the Music player
Dec 13 12:22:01 <Hazel|work> even though 3.0.4 is supposed to support this :(
Dec 13 12:23:57 <EricBlade> Hazel|work: i think i recall reading somewhere that there's a problem with tags in ogg
Dec 13 12:24:19 <panel> or some media rescan ?
Dec 13 12:24:31 <EricBlade> something like "tags have to be all uppercase"
Dec 13 12:25:11 <Hazel|work> panel: hmm, it was displaying the swirly thing next to "songs" that seemed to mean it was rescanning
Dec 13 12:25:19 <Hazel|work> EricBlade: hmm, I guess if it can't find the name of it...
Dec 13 12:25:32 <Hazel|work> can I trigger a media rescan somehow?
Dec 13 12:25:57 <EricBlade> maybe try moving the file around
Dec 13 12:27:36 <Hazel|work> hmm
Dec 13 14:12:11 <directhex> halfhalo, 3.0.4 is meant to support this?
Dec 13 14:12:17 <directhex> erm, Hazel|work
Dec 13 14:15:46 <Hazel|work> directhex: http://kb.hpwebos.com/wps/portal/kb2/na/touchpad/touchpad/wifi/solutions/article/18666_en.html
Dec 13 14:15:55 <Hazel|work> "OGG Vorbis and FLAC media files are supported."
Dec 13 14:16:04 <directhex> motherf...
Dec 13 14:16:07 <Hazel|work> hmm?
Dec 13 14:16:18 <directhex> i wasted a whole bunch of time to hack it into 2.2.0
Dec 13 14:16:26 <Hazel|work> recently, or?
Dec 13 14:16:35 <Hazel|work> directhex: also, only in 3.0.4 onwards
Dec 13 14:18:08 <directhex> a couple of months ago
Dec 13 14:18:21 <directhex> it was arbitrarily & stupidly disabled in gstreamer via ifdefs
Dec 13 14:18:32 <directhex> and presumably also in hp's closed-source layer between gstreamer & their media player app
Dec 13 14:18:36 <Hazel|work> heh
Dec 13 14:18:44 <Hazel|work> ah, geese streamer
Dec 13 14:20:00 <directhex> root@HPTouchPad:/media/internal# gst-inspect | grep ^vorbis
Dec 13 14:20:01 <directhex> vorbis:  vorbistag: VorbisTag
Dec 13 14:20:01 <directhex> vorbis:  vorbisparse: VorbisParse
Dec 13 14:20:01 <directhex> vorbis:  vorbisdec: Vorbis audio decoder
Dec 13 14:20:03 <directhex> yeah, that's new
Dec 13 14:23:36 <directhex> yep, there we go
Dec 13 14:23:45 <directhex> root@HPTouchPad:/media/internal# gst-launch filesrc location=foo.ogg ! oggdemux ! vorbisdec ! pulsesink
Dec 13 14:23:48 <directhex> plays audio
Dec 13 14:25:51 <directhex> thought it didn't work, then i tried turning the volume up
Dec 13 14:28:23 <directhex> okay, this is super interesting from a webos-internals standpoint
Dec 13 14:29:20 <directhex> in 3.0.2 and below, palm gimped their libgsttypefindfunctions.so, by wrapping the recognition of "unapproved" codecs in a dodgy ifdef
Dec 13 14:31:11 <directhex> the entire plugin_init() section was hobbled to only recognise things like aac. libgsttypefindfunctions is the gstreamer bit that detects codecs used by a given stream, so actual codecs can say "i support this filetype, if you encounter this then ask me to deal with it"
Dec 13 14:32:46 <directhex> 3.0.4 seems to ship with an unmolested libgsttypefindfunctions.so - i.e. gstreamer on 3.0.4 can detect any format. it doesn't *ship* with codecs for any format, but it's a simple case of dropping a new codec into /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10, and bam, added support for WMV or MKV. that's the theory, anyway - not sure how much HP's extra cruft on top of gst messes things up
Dec 13 14:33:16 <zer0her0> webos newb here is 3.x only for touchpad? or do phones get it as well?
Dec 13 14:33:29 <directhex> only for the touchpad
Dec 13 14:34:45 <zer0her0> that's what i thought.
Dec 13 14:38:15 <dawm> except evo3d which gets 3.x
Dec 13 14:38:18 <dawm> "P
Dec 13 14:38:19 <dawm> :P
Dec 13 14:40:22 <zer0her0> haha yea saw that.
Dec 13 14:41:45 <dawm> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ZqRK6EAMfe8/TIYQoTTRw4I/AAAAAAAAAD4/W1J8f5Jotc8/s1600/95778-kitty_suicide_bomber.jpg
Dec 13 14:42:05 <directhex> hopefully once the webos source appears, we can end this silly cyanogenmod nonsense and webos all the things instead :p
Dec 13 14:42:20 <zer0her0> that's what i'm hoping for
Dec 13 14:43:06 <zer0her0> should i grab a handset now or just wait till source comes out? i must say i'm not very impressed with palm/hp hardware, so thinking i should just wait...
Dec 13 14:44:32 <directhex> i like my pre3 hardware
Dec 13 14:44:41 <directhex> although 8gb is ridiculous for a modern smartphone
Dec 13 14:44:54 <Shiggs|i5> heh
Dec 13 14:45:13 <zer0her0> is there a legit place in the US to buy Pre3 hardware still? most place i'm finding seem sketchy
Dec 13 14:45:54 <panel> directhex do you need more than 8GB ? ;)
Dec 13 14:46:49 <directhex> panel, even with 16G i wouldn't have room for all my music. i need 64G really, for all my music *and* all my porn
Dec 13 14:47:09 <panel> lol
Dec 13 14:47:10 <panel> :))
Dec 13 14:47:11 <cwayne> only 64gb of porn? what is this, amateur hour
Dec 13 14:47:47 <directhex> quality over quantity, mister cwayne
Dec 13 14:47:51 <panel> ok, I'm using ipod for music, because of battery
Dec 13 14:47:56 <cwayne> directhex: haha
Dec 13 14:48:18 <zer0her0> i need over 250GB for my music collection :-/
Dec 13 14:48:43 <directhex> pre3 with a 3.5" hard disk glued to it!
Dec 13 14:48:56 <zer0her0> haha
Dec 13 14:49:24 <panel> btw. I recomend to buy some NAS server, Synology for example and you can stream any music with my app ;P
Dec 13 14:49:50 <zer0her0> panel, hehe nice promo.
Dec 13 14:50:12 <zer0her0> you should partner w/ NAS makers and have them give you a kickback ;)
Dec 13 14:50:44 <panel> zer0her0 but since I've got nas server I'm not copying mp3's anymore :)
Dec 13 14:50:56 <panel> zer0her0 yes, I have to write them
Dec 13 14:50:58 <panel> :D
Dec 13 14:51:08 <directhex> i installed a upnp streaming app, that's fine for watching porn at home. but what about when i'm away?
Dec 13 14:51:33 <panel> you can user external IP :)
Dec 13 14:51:36 <panel> *use
Dec 13 14:52:04 <zer0her0> yea i am out of the house 10-15 hours 6 days a week, half that time in a concrete cube they call a museum
Dec 13 14:52:05 <directhex> i've only got 8M upstream. that's no good for proper HD porn, is it?
Dec 13 14:52:08 <madnificent> so, now that webos is going to get open sourced, we're becoming the new android pr0n hub?
Dec 13 14:52:43 <panel> #webPr0n
Dec 13 14:55:35 <directhex> someone clearly needs to quickly fill the niche of third-party adult app store. android has mikandi, what does webos have?
Dec 13 14:56:29 <madnificent> directhex: i think we can have mikandi as well, is mikandi exclusive to a single os?
Dec 13 14:56:48 <directhex> they don't make a webos version. clearly they could, though
Dec 13 14:58:50 <dawm> http://developer.mikandi.com/
Dec 13 15:33:39 <singmajesty2> The conversation was thirty minutes ago...
Dec 13 15:33:42 <singmajesty2> But I sure hope not.
Dec 13 15:34:19 <singmajesty2> If you want to look at indecent material, there are plenty of ways to do it without opening it up in the webOS App Catalog.
Dec 13 15:42:36 <zephjc> hey mad
Dec 13 15:45:51 <madnificent> hey zephjc!
Dec 13 15:46:13 <madnificent> you should tab-complete my full name, otherwise i'll mostly always miss your line :)
Dec 13 15:46:19 <zephjc> heh true
Dec 13 15:46:31 <singmajesty2> Hey, I didn't know Opera had tab name completion
Dec 13 15:46:32 <singmajesty2> nice
Dec 13 15:46:41 <zephjc> i had a look thru of your app - hard to grok with the emulator, the way it rotates the screen lol
Dec 13 15:46:41 <madnificent> singmajesty2: whot?
Dec 13 15:46:46 <singmajesty2> madnificent: magnificent, thanks
Dec 13 15:47:14 <madnificent> singmajesty2: you're welcome, i guess
Dec 13 15:47:22 <singmajesty2> Oh, you said he should tab-complete your name, so I tried it in Opera and it worked. Didn't realize I could do that
Dec 13 15:47:25 <madnificent> zephjc: the manual tells most of the story :)
Dec 13 15:47:29 * singmajesty2 learns new things every day
Dec 13 15:47:42 <zephjc> yeah, i had to read up on GTD hehe
Dec 13 15:47:42 <madnificent> singmajesty2: works in every irc client i know :)
Dec 13 15:47:58 * singmajesty2 learns more new things every day
Dec 13 15:48:19 <oil> even wirc does that xD
Dec 13 15:48:28 <madnificent> \o/
Dec 13 15:48:46 <oil> enyo-wirc its actually tab
Dec 13 15:52:11 <madnificent> zephjc: i noticed that with enyo, you're required to write apps for dumber users, with mojo you could do fancy nice things to make things fluid.
Dec 13 15:52:43 <madnificent> that might be an oversimplification, it may have made sense for the TouchPad
Dec 13 15:53:29 <zephjc> in what ways?
Dec 13 15:54:15 <oil> you can do fancy things with enyo
Dec 13 15:54:56 <zephjc> as an example?
Dec 13 15:55:30 <oil> awesome color picker/key input in enyo-wirc
Dec 13 15:55:59 <madnificent> in the sense that you don't get forward and backward swipes anymore.  everything is done through buttons.
Dec 13 15:56:15 <zephjc> how did fwd/back swipes work?
Dec 13 15:56:17 <madnificent> you don't have the keyboard always available either (at least with the touchpad)
Dec 13 15:56:35 <zephjc> yeah a slide out keyboard on a touchpad would be awkward :)
Dec 13 15:56:54 <madnificent> zephjc: you have an area beneath the touchscreen.  swipe from left to right and you're basically telling your app "go forward", swipe from right to left and you're saying "go back".  it works really intuitively.
Dec 13 15:57:33 <zephjc> go back or fwd means to go to parent/child views, or...?
Dec 13 15:57:44 <madnificent> tasks@hand used that extensively.  the same with the keyboard btw.  you start typing stuff and it starts filtering tasks for you.  with the current construction you always need an extra tap AND the keyboard needs its time to pop up.
Dec 13 15:57:49 <oil> depends on how you write it
Dec 13 15:58:01 <oil> in wirc the left panel stays, but you can "swipe" away the right panel when you dont want it anymore
Dec 13 15:58:10 <oil> no "back" button
Dec 13 15:58:29 <zephjc> hmm
Dec 13 15:58:36 <madnificent> tasks@hand maintains a history of cards where you were, or actions you took.  it either revisits the previous card or executes the previous action (for new tasks, swiping back and then forward will create a new task IIRC){
Dec 13 15:58:40 <zephjc> seems to be introducing UI inconsistencies
Dec 13 15:58:49 <zephjc> sometimes it is destructive, some times its not
Dec 13 15:59:11 <madnificent> zephjc: the idea with WebOS is: always save what's in there.  so if you slide backward, it saves.
Dec 13 15:59:16 <madnificent> s/slide/swipe/
Dec 13 15:59:45 <madnificent> a save button doesn't belong on a smartphone, it's there to integrate with your life for quick actions.
Dec 13 16:00:09 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 16:00:40 <zephjc> slides make sense when the behavior of "previous or next view" make sense
Dec 13 16:00:44 <zephjc> like browser history
Dec 13 16:01:04 <madnificent> yup
Dec 13 16:01:10 <zephjc> or tree of views navigation (fwd doesnt make sense there, back does tho)
Dec 13 16:01:39 <zephjc> that seems like stuff that can get added back once webOS is OSed
Dec 13 16:01:46 <madnificent> you don't /have/ to implement it, but it makes sense in many many apps.  most apps for smartphones deal with quickly browsing through information, and swipes make sense on that front.
Dec 13 16:02:26 <madnificent> i hope so, but it does require some hardware support.  if vendors decide to let marketing pick the device's features, then a swipe area will not be part of it, i'm afraid.
Dec 13 16:02:27 <zephjc> webOS on tablets has the multi-pane convention now
Dec 13 16:03:06 <zephjc> most user data  interaction can/should happen in 3-4 levels of nesting
Dec 13 16:03:08 <madnificent> yes, and it makes sense on tablets, to some extent.  though it doesn't invalidate the use of a gesture area.  plus, the apps should be usable on a smartphone as well and the panes don't seem to be well-suited for that at all.
Dec 13 16:03:40 <zephjc> a agree the panes dont fit the phone form factor at all
Dec 13 16:04:15 <singmajesty2> Well, panes can arguably be "scenes"
Dec 13 16:04:20 <singmajesty2> Think about email on the TouchPad
Dec 13 16:04:30 <zephjc> swipes (and a lot of gestures in general) dont seem very discoverable though - explicit buttons make more sense for most users
Dec 13 16:04:31 <singmajesty2> 1.) Accounts, 2.) Messages, 3.) Message Detail
Dec 13 16:04:40 <zephjc> they also tell the user if they're in a child view or not
Dec 13 16:04:41 <singmajesty2> Those are three scenes on a phone, but three panes on a tablet
Dec 13 16:04:45 <madnificent> zephjc: you only need to learn them once, and they are not in your way
Dec 13 16:05:00 <singmajesty2> I am a big fan of back-swiping, though, at least
Dec 13 16:05:05 <madnificent> zephjc: you 'need' to know forward swipe, backward swipe and swipe up... most other things can be learned later on.
Dec 13 16:05:14 <singmajesty2> I use gestures a lot more on a webOS phone than Android or iOS
Dec 13 16:05:29 <madnificent> zephjc: for instance, you can reorder most of the lists in tasks@hand by holding the item and then dragging it, that's something you don't *need* to know, but it can help your life.
Dec 13 16:06:05 <zephjc> click-hold is the convention for all lists in webOS on phones?
Dec 13 16:06:24 <madnificent> it's built in the framework, so yes it is an idiom
Dec 13 16:06:47 <zephjc> ok cool
Dec 13 16:06:56 <madnificent> the whole user interface is constructed based on the constructs that palm provided us with, therefore the experience of the phone is as a whole, instead of many parts (like android is)
Dec 13 16:07:23 <summatusmentis> zephjc: you're right that swipes aren't terribly discoverable. But they're SOO nice
Dec 13 16:07:44 <summatusmentis> and it's not hard to learn
Dec 13 16:07:51 <madnificent> you can execute swipes if you have your phone in one hand, i can't press all buttons of my hero if i have it in one hand.
Dec 13 16:08:07 <summatusmentis> the little light-bar thingy helps with discoverability, sort of
Dec 13 16:08:29 <madnificent> summatusmentis: the pre teaches you when you first boot it up.
Dec 13 16:08:36 <summatusmentis> that's true too
Dec 13 16:08:38 <zephjc> i think WP7 actually does a good job with making other content discoverable with swipes
Dec 13 16:08:58 <summatusmentis> but tutorials are stop-gaps for lack of discoverability
Dec 13 16:09:01 <zephjc> putting a little bit of the content from the next view visible on the current view
Dec 13 16:09:29 <zephjc> (tho its not a good use of screen real estate :) )
Dec 13 16:10:30 <zephjc> tutorials can be problematic, and should be unnecessary for most things on an embedded device like a phone
Dec 13 16:10:55 <madnificent> zephjc: if webos wouldn't have been open sourced, i'd have checked out wp7 more seriously.  from what i've seen so far, webos is still king on the productivity front (seriously, i don't care who has the best media player, my calendar, contacts, mails and messages must be integrated perfectly first)
Dec 13 16:11:24 <zephjc> lol i agree
Dec 13 16:11:36 <zephjc> plus, they have IE as their browser *cough*
Dec 13 16:12:04 <madnificent> zephjc: also, i disagree on the front that tutorials aren't needed.  say i use my phone for about 30 minutes a day, every day.  if i can pinch off a few minutes a day off of that by having a more advanced UI, then that's a good thing.  i don't understand why everyone believes differently.
Dec 13 16:13:00 <madnificent> you need to maximize the total productivity of the user, not the initial 10 seconds.  that's why most serious programmers use a relatively advanced editor.
Dec 13 16:13:18 * zer0her0 puts on asbestos suit
Dec 13 16:13:22 <zer0her0> what's wrong with IE?!
Dec 13 16:13:23 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 16:13:25 * zer0her0 runs for cover
Dec 13 16:13:57 <zephjc> actually ive never used IE on WP7, so i wouldnt know, tho ive heard it (at least in WP 7.0) was based on IE8
Dec 13 16:14:19 <madnificent> microsoft has made progress on IE btw.  i'm curious how IE10 is going to run (it's 10, right?).  i don't have a windows machine, that doesn't make it easier.
Dec 13 16:14:24 <zer0her0> i'm just messing i use IE as little as possible simple for testing
Dec 13 16:14:31 <zephjc> i deal with browser issues daily as part of my job, and IE is the single biggest headache i have doing anything
Dec 13 16:14:36 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 16:14:39 <zer0her0> madnificent, hehe yep i think 10 only runs in windows 8
Dec 13 16:14:46 <zer0her0> at least right now
Dec 13 16:14:52 <zer0her0> zephjc, exactly
Dec 13 16:14:58 <zer0her0> i shiver whenever i have to do IE testing.
Dec 13 16:15:05 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 16:15:18 <zephjc> i find breathing exercises help
Dec 13 16:15:19 <zephjc> :)
Dec 13 16:15:41 <zer0her0> ah good call.
Dec 13 16:16:15 <zer0her0> so am i stupid for buying pixi plus just to mess w/ webOS till they OS it.
Dec 13 16:16:49 <zephjc> the tablet form factor is the future for webOS
Dec 13 16:17:03 <zephjc> which is fine by me, tablets are more interesting to me than phones
Dec 13 16:17:14 <zer0her0> yea but you can't buy touchpad for cheap anymore
Dec 13 16:17:41 <zephjc> yeah
Dec 13 16:18:15 <madnificent> zer0her0: i don't think they'll have linux support any time soon :)
Dec 13 16:18:24 <zephjc> tablets etc are just a stopgap for more advanced and direct data access and management
Dec 13 16:18:28 <zer0her0> madnificent, they?
Dec 13 16:19:22 <madnificent> zer0her0: i wouldn't go for the pixi if i were you, the processor is older and it lacks memory.  veer/pre2 or pre would be my guesses... i really really like the fluidity of the pre2, but i prefered having a pre1 in my hands overy any other smartphone (even if it's flakey)
Dec 13 16:19:29 <madnificent> zer0her0: microsoft
Dec 13 16:19:33 <panel> have somebody any experience with just type app implementation ?
Dec 13 16:20:08 <zephjc> panel: you mean integration with it?
Dec 13 16:20:12 <panel> yes
Dec 13 16:20:13 <zer0her0> madnificent, thanks for the feedback, i'm a webOS newb, split my time between iOS and Android(hoping to give up android for webOS)
Dec 13 16:20:27 <zer0her0> i'll look @ getting a pre2 then
Dec 13 16:20:34 <panel> zephjc universalSearch parameter in appinfo.json
Dec 13 16:20:53 <zephjc> gotcha - im a webOS noob, so i dont :)
Dec 13 16:21:00 <panel> lol
Dec 13 16:21:05 <madnificent> zer0her0: also, ask here for others, i've only had a pre1 and a pre2 in my hands, hp/palm doesn't love us in this region :)
Dec 13 16:21:24 <zer0her0> madnificent, ah :-/
Dec 13 16:21:57 <madnificent> so my opinion is based on reviews and comments of others, you should get them first-hand
Dec 13 16:22:27 <zer0her0> madnificent, no doubt i'll ask around and keep searching
Dec 13 16:23:10 <madnificent> good luck!
Dec 13 16:25:33 <zephjc> i also have a pretty big issue with how the main "desktop" works on the tablet
Dec 13 16:25:48 <zephjc> brb tho, dog needs out
Dec 13 16:26:53 <panel> bye
Dec 13 16:29:19 <zephjc> back
Dec 13 16:29:35 <zephjc> the just type on the main screen is nice, but you cant put icons on the desktop??
Dec 13 16:29:54 <madnificent> zephjc: there might be a card over it
Dec 13 16:30:23 <zephjc> over the icons?
Dec 13 16:30:38 <summatusmentis> the "desktop" is "card view mode"
Dec 13 16:30:41 <madnificent> zephjc: if you want that feature, you'd be best off by creating an application, which is a card, which you have open always with your icons on.  then again, you might as well swipe up.  there's no reason to put stuff on the desktop (and we shouldn't have done that on computers either)
Dec 13 16:33:00 <singmajesty2> It's a difference of opinion
Dec 13 16:33:08 <singmajesty2> I remember hearing a statistic about bookmarks in browsers
Dec 13 16:33:18 <singmajesty2> The people who use bookmarks, tend to use a lot of bookmarks
Dec 13 16:33:24 <singmajesty2> But a lot of people also don't use bookmarks at all
Dec 13 16:33:32 <singmajesty2> I have icons hidden on my desktop, here
Dec 13 16:33:42 <singmajesty2> And when I use Android, I remove all the icons from the desktops
Dec 13 16:33:54 <singmajesty2> But I know plenty of people who have lots of icons on their desktops
Dec 13 16:33:59 <summatusmentis> people use bookmarks?
Dec 13 16:34:00 <zephjc> see, i like the icons on the desktop of my iPhone
Dec 13 16:34:10 <singmajesty2> Yeah, I heard it was nearly a 50/50 split
Dec 13 16:34:12 <zephjc> i sometimes make bookmarks, but not like i used to
Dec 13 16:34:17 <singmajesty2> This was 8 months ago, or so
Dec 13 16:34:23 <summatusmentis> zephjc: the "desktop" and the "launcher" on iOS are one and the same
Dec 13 16:34:24 <singmajesty2> Half of people use bookmarks, and a lot
Dec 13 16:34:30 <singmajesty2> Half of people don't use them at all
Dec 13 16:34:31 <trout> i only make them at work.. personally i have none
Dec 13 16:34:42 <summatusmentis> notice that iOS hides "running applications" until you double-click the home button?
Dec 13 16:34:44 <singmajesty2> To me, its a little like... folders in my email
Dec 13 16:34:56 <singmajesty2> Opera Mail can search my inbox so fast, there's no point in making folders anymore
Dec 13 16:35:05 <summatusmentis> singmajesty2: exactly
Dec 13 16:35:16 <singmajesty2> Google or typed history in the address bar is kind of the same with bookmarks
Dec 13 16:35:17 <summatusmentis> I mean, except that I don't use Opera Mail, but yeah
Dec 13 16:35:33 <singmajesty2> I have 50,000 messages and it finds whatever I want in a blink
Dec 13 16:35:33 <zephjc> i get hundreds of emails a day (well, thoudands, but most are system emails from our servers and those just get binned :) )
Dec 13 16:36:59 <madnificent> singmajesty2: no, the issue with the desktop is not that people use it.  the problem is that people use it as 'the central place' from which they start doing stuff.  and that is rarely ever correct.  see, the computer doesn't have a place to start from, and if it would have such a place then it certainly shouldn't be a large dump of random crap that you could throw at it.  if there were a central place, it should be a search interface
Dec 13 16:36:59 <madnificent> for your applications and files, but /not/ a junkjard.
Dec 13 16:37:14 <madnificent> singmajesty: ^  DON'T YOU DARE TO CHANGE NICKNAMES ON ME! ;) :P
Dec 13 16:37:32 <zer0her0> haha
Dec 13 16:38:17 <zephjc> search works when you know what you're looking for
Dec 13 16:38:31 <zephjc> icons in locations are orthogonal to that
Dec 13 16:38:37 <madnificent> no matter how much everyone one hates it, Unity actually does a good effort on this, though i think the gnome team did the good parts (the search interface and such), i haven't searched the logs nor cross-referenced the features.
Dec 13 16:38:46 <zephjc> they are for when you dont know what you're looking for, but where to look
Dec 13 16:39:20 <madnificent> zephjc: no, it just works, apparently.  for instance, i wondered what version i was running of my os, so i entered version, and it did its thing.  i completely assumed it would roughly always fail, but it seems it doesn't.  though integration with the package manager is needed to make it work good.
Dec 13 16:39:45 <madnificent> zephjc: but i agree, it isn't as discoverable, and that's a sad thing.  i'd like the normal interface PLUS the search interface.
Dec 13 16:39:57 <summatusmentis> zephjc: except from a "using a computer" perspective, you know what you're trying to accomplish
Dec 13 16:40:31 <summatusmentis> and if search is sophisticated enough, it ought to be able to read "what I want to do" and translate it to "what I need to do it"
Dec 13 16:40:39 <summatusmentis> Siri is a good start on this problem
Dec 13 16:40:55 <madnificent> summatusmentis: yeah, exactly!  and when i'm in "what the?!" mode, i don't know where to search anyways.  now i enter screen, and the thing for enabling display on a second monitor pops up.
Dec 13 16:40:57 <summatusmentis> Siri/WolframAlpha
Dec 13 16:43:07 <zephjc> webOS could have just type do things as sophisticated as Siri, with typing instead of voice, without needing a server farm behind it
Dec 13 16:43:34 <summatusmentis> no it couldn't
Dec 13 16:43:48 <summatusmentis> it's not the voice-to-text part of Siri that requires the server farm
Dec 13 16:44:03 <zephjc> well yeah i guess its the fuzzy stuff they ship out
Dec 13 16:44:04 <summatusmentis> Siri is contextual, and it's the computation of context that is the heavy part
Dec 13 16:44:19 <SoulShadow> siri doesn't need the server farm irregardless of what it does
Dec 13 16:44:19 <zephjc> voice interaction makes more sense on a phone where you might not be looking at it, than on a tablet where you're always looking at it when interacting
Dec 13 16:44:33 <SoulShadow> voice interaction makes little sense
Dec 13 16:44:35 <summatusmentis> SoulShadow: yes it does
Dec 13 16:44:45 <SoulShadow> it's more work to press the button and talk to the phone
Dec 13 16:44:50 <SoulShadow> than to find the right spot and tap it out
Dec 13 16:44:59 <SoulShadow> especially if you're in public, then you don't look like a dumbass
Dec 13 16:45:39 <madnificent> summatusmentis: have you found anything that recognizes voice as good as siri?  (seriously, i'd be interested)
Dec 13 16:45:42 <summatusmentis> ignoring the voice interaction side of siri, the context search function is a) hard b) the right way to go about doing "search"
Dec 13 16:46:04 <summatusmentis> madnificent: not that I've seen. I've watched a few demos of android apps, but nothing I've seen comes close
Dec 13 16:46:47 <madnificent> summatusmentis: sad sad sad!  and i completely agree with your statement a) and b)
Dec 13 16:47:14 <singmajesty> madnificent: Personally, I am a big fan of Unity's search box
Dec 13 16:47:30 <singmajesty> I'm still torn on how I feel about the left-hand icons
Dec 13 16:47:38 <madnificent> me too, but you need to get used ot it.  and it does some annoying things!
Dec 13 16:47:42 <singmajesty> But I love being able to open a box and type what I want
Dec 13 16:47:48 <singmajesty> I do like it better than Gnome 2 :)
Dec 13 16:48:01 <singmajesty> That used to be my favorite feature from Litestep (lsxcommand)
Dec 13 16:48:02 <madnificent> singmajesty: i like them, but it sometimes anoys me.  i really like switching between apps with <super>-number
Dec 13 16:48:11 <summatusmentis> madnificent: the tech behind Siri came out of a DARPA project. It's sort of an amalgamation of good speech recog, and WolframAlpha's computational engine
Dec 13 16:48:17 <madnificent> singmajesty: have you checked gnome3?
Dec 13 16:48:20 <summatusmentis> (I say sort of, because it's clearly modified)
Dec 13 16:48:56 <singmajesty> I have... but I tried it using Fedora, which seemed to have improved since I used it last, but I got a bit frustrated by its partitioning and security settings
Dec 13 16:49:13 <singmajesty> It didn't like that I had Ubuntu, Windows and the Windows recover partition in place
Dec 13 16:49:24 <singmajesty> I haven't tried Ubuntu with Gnome 3 yet
Dec 13 16:49:28 <SoulShadow> fedora is eh
Dec 13 16:49:37 <SoulShadow> so is opensuse
Dec 13 16:49:53 <singmajesty> I used to like OpenSUSE, but that was back in the day
Dec 13 16:50:02 <madnificent> singmajesty: how do you compare it to unity?
Dec 13 16:50:08 <singmajesty> I had a lot of illegal software, and finally felt convicted by it
Dec 13 16:50:19 <singmajesty> I realized I didn't even own Windows, so I installed Linux ;)
Dec 13 16:50:33 <singmajesty> There are things about Gnome 3 that felt ... unique
Dec 13 16:50:44 <singmajesty> You know, just a different paradigm for using the desktop
Dec 13 16:50:46 <singmajesty> But good
Dec 13 16:50:50 * madnificent switched from windows because linux makes me more productive, if i'd have to pay a few hunderd bucks for it, i'd cough it up.
Dec 13 16:51:03 <singmajesty> I kind of like the visual style of Ubuntu a bit more
Dec 13 16:51:16 <madnificent> and aside from that you value them roughly the same?
Dec 13 16:51:25 <singmajesty> But if I could have Gnome 3 and Unity installed side-by-side, I might play with it more (maybe I can)?
Dec 13 16:51:35 <madnificent> i wonder as you don't seem to be biased by the idea of 'new is bad' nor 'new is good', it's hard to find reviews of that kind.
Dec 13 16:51:50 <madnificent> singmajesty: you can install gnome3 on ubuntu iirc
Dec 13 16:52:07 <madnificent> and they don't need to mess each other up either afaict, just pick one at the login session
Dec 13 16:52:19 <singmajesty> Yeah, I'm thinking now that I might give Ubuntu + G... oh it doesn't? I figured that might be possible
Dec 13 16:52:39 <zephjc> i better get off here - too distracting from work :)
Dec 13 16:52:41 <singmajesty> Maybe I'll install it in VirtualBox, then decide if I want to put it on my full install
Dec 13 16:52:56 <singmajesty> Well, to be honest, I was using Linux full-time for the better part of a year
Dec 13 16:53:16 <singmajesty> Once I got past the learning curve of knowing the terminal better, I loved the control I have
Dec 13 16:53:26 <singmajesty> The one thing that switched me back to Windows...
Dec 13 16:53:29 <singmajesty> Was FlashDevelop :)
Dec 13 16:53:32 <cwayne> you can install gnome-shell on ubuntu
Dec 13 16:53:57 <cwayne> or lxde, or openbox, or fluxbox, or kde, or xfce, or whatever you want :P
Dec 13 16:54:01 <singmajesty> I had been using vim and gedit for development, when I hit a wall where I knew I just needed Photoshop and FlashDevelop to get it done for a presentation
Dec 13 16:54:13 <singmajesty> Then I remembered why I loved FlashDevelop so much
Dec 13 16:54:17 <madnificent> singmajesty: but now flash is going away :)
Dec 13 16:54:32 <singmajesty> Well, I love FlashDevelop for most kinds of development...
Dec 13 16:54:45 <singmajesty> But it is also has the best support in an IDE for haxe
Dec 13 16:54:59 <madnificent> singmajesty: i've used VIm for some time, switched to emacs later on.  makes me more productive than an old-style ide :)
Dec 13 16:55:06 <singmajesty> Which is awesome for games, and Javascript, too, if anyone cares for my opinion :)
Dec 13 16:55:27 <singmajesty> The code completion is good, and fast... it feels like using tab completion in a terminal
Dec 13 16:55:29 <summatusmentis> madnificent: <3 vim
Dec 13 16:55:29 <madnificent> though symbol completion isn't as good in emacs as it is in eclipse and the likes.  i don't code java, so that's not an issue.
Dec 13 16:55:40 <madnificent> summatusmentis: i'm not going to flame, i liked it for as long as it lasted.
Dec 13 16:55:53 <singmajesty> haxe lets you write Javascript with classes, interfaces, generics, iterators, strong types, code completion, error checking, etc.
Dec 13 16:55:56 <summatusmentis> why'd you switch, out of curiosity?
Dec 13 16:56:13 <singmajesty> Or you can use NME for games.
Dec 13 16:56:57 <Shadyman> Fact of the day: KitKat is considered a lucky food in Japan as it is pronounced "kitto katsu" in Japanese which means "I surely win".
Dec 13 16:58:27 <madnificent> summatusmentis: i was learning common lisp, development of common lisp is much easier in emacs than in VIm (you know, emacs uses emacs lisp in the backend, so lispers like it more).  around the same time i switched from qwerty to dvorak, thus rendering my knowledge of VIm keybindings useless.  also, VIm really isn't nice on dvorak.  so it came somewhat naturally.  i think i'm a little bid glad i switched regardless of that as i didn't
Dec 13 16:58:27 <madnificent> quite like the complexity for extending vim, when compared to emacs.  in my opinion Emacs is better at support complex things (like calendar integration, mails and that stuff) and VIm is nicer if you don't understand the file format anyways.
Dec 13 16:59:47 <summatusmentis> madnificent: I've wanted to extend my vim to do things like driving a debugger and things, and these things are hard
Dec 13 16:59:47 <singmajesty> Nice
Dec 13 16:59:52 <summatusmentis> which is why I ask
Dec 13 16:59:58 <singmajesty> Never tried cloning a VM in VirtualBox before
Dec 13 17:02:45 <madnificent> summatusmentis: without any fanboyism, i don't know if i'd make the switch again.  i /think/ i'm more productive due to the integration that i can have now, but it does take some time to learn a new editor.  if you like to extend stuff emacs is much much nicer imo, but the investment is still quite high.
Dec 13 17:03:02 <madnificent> perhaps i'm lucky that i was forced into this (well, i picked lisp, so i forced myself into this)
Dec 13 17:03:08 <Tommy> who wants a palm pixi for sprint -_-
Dec 13 17:03:31 <summatusmentis> madnificent: yeh, the learning curve would suck
Dec 13 17:04:12 <madnificent> it's similar to that of VIm, though i did learn it a bit faster.  you're already to trained to learn something similar by learning VIm :)
Dec 13 17:11:22 <singmajesty> Alright, I cloned my Ubuntu VM and I'm upgrading it to 11.10 to try Gnome 3 again
Dec 13 17:11:37 <singmajesty> Looks like support for 11.04 was beta, but 11.10 is officially supported for gnome-shell
Dec 13 17:12:07 <singmajesty> I started using an 11.04 VM so I could do Windows, Linux and Linux 64 builds at once
Dec 13 17:12:26 <singmajesty> I had been using 11.10, but some users had trouble with it linking newer libraries
Dec 13 17:12:44 <singmajesty> (11.10 is what I have installed as a full install on my desktop and laptop)
Dec 13 17:37:40 <sugardave> singmajesty: I upgraded to 11.04 (then 11.10) a few weeks ago.  Man, I hate Unity.  And Gnome 3 isn't as awesome as Gnome 2 was in 10.04
Dec 13 17:37:55 <sugardave> but, you can get by with it
Dec 13 17:38:38 <singmajesty> I do like Unity better in 11.10 better than 11.04
Dec 13 17:38:45 <singmajesty> And it does feel smoother when it isn't in a VM
Dec 13 17:38:58 <singmajesty> But I wish it were possible to customize the left-hand
Dec 13 17:38:58 <sugardave> the killer for me was the lame desktop switching
Dec 13 17:39:12 <sugardave> and I still don't really have what I did in Gnome 2
Dec 13 17:39:17 <singmajesty> I also like the shortcut bar better when I collapse it to be smaller
Dec 13 17:39:28 <sugardave> a little control panel/status bar applet that I could just double-click and go
Dec 13 17:39:44 <singmajesty> Do you use the Ctrl + arrow key shortcuts?
Dec 13 17:39:55 <sugardave> I'm starting to now
Dec 13 17:40:14 <singmajesty> I think you can also control how many desktops, and whether they are "laid out horizontally", or in a grid, etc
Dec 13 17:40:29 <sugardave> yeah, I just haven't messed with it in a few weeks
Dec 13 17:40:42 <sugardave> I need to spend some time cleaning it up and optimizing some things
Dec 13 17:40:45 <oilsworkn> and so it begins: http://ompldr.org/vYnEyaQ :)
Dec 13 17:40:49 <singmajesty> I wish I could use it on my work laptop, but since it has NVidia's Optimus chipset...
Dec 13 17:40:52 <sugardave> oilsworkn: oh hai
Dec 13 17:41:00 <singmajesty> Booting in Linux runs two GPUs at once and eats the battery
Dec 13 17:41:14 <oilsworkn> hey sugardave
Dec 13 17:41:17 <singmajesty> lol
Dec 13 17:41:32 <sugardave> oilsworkn: is that Enyogo?!
Dec 13 17:41:48 <oilsworkn> good name, lol
Dec 13 17:42:08 <oilsworkn> sofar its a canvas drawing a turtle in the middle and a text box
Dec 13 17:42:14 <sugardave> heh
Dec 13 17:42:23 <oilsworkn> but it should be easy to get some simple commands working
Dec 13 17:42:45 <sugardave> nice, I loved logo when I was a kid
Dec 13 17:43:32 <oilsworkn> was my first introduction to programming in like 4th or 5th grade
Dec 13 17:44:14 <sugardave> yeah, same here but we only got to do it once per week since it was for the "gifted class" that only got to meet once a week
Dec 13 17:44:41 * oilsworkn did the EXACT same thing
Dec 13 17:44:51 <oilsworkn> every thursday i went to another school
Dec 13 17:44:56 <sugardave> yes!
Dec 13 17:45:01 <oilsworkn> haha
Dec 13 18:06:12 <oilsworkn> well sugardave ill probably be putting the code up somewhere if you want to work on it :)
Dec 13 18:12:32 <halfhalo> turtle!
Dec 13 18:13:24 * halfhalo grumbles at whomever decided to stick pdf's into git
Dec 13 18:15:35 <singmajesty> It's turtles all the way down...
Dec 13 18:23:44 <panel> I have veer in recovery mode, can somebody tell me how can I reset it without doctoring ?
Dec 13 18:24:42 <Tommy> well that's nifty, precentral is now webOS nation
Dec 13 18:24:54 <Tommy> now they can better support the 0 devices running the operating system
Dec 13 18:26:24 <Shadyman> trolololo
Dec 13 18:27:07 <Tommy> Shadyman: trolololo, do you want a palm pixi for sprint?
Dec 13 18:27:24 <Tommy> i grabbed it because it was uber cheap, realized it doesn't have wifi, i'm not a sprint user
Dec 13 18:27:26 <Tommy> BNIB
Dec 13 18:27:40 <Shadyman> Uhh. Is it unlocked/GSM?
Dec 13 18:28:02 <Shadyman> Sprint won't do me much good in Canada ;)
Dec 13 18:28:42 <Tommy> Shadyman: ah, didn't realize you were from canuckistan, and no it's neither
Dec 13 18:28:54 <Shadyman> aww
Dec 13 18:29:03 <Tommy> if it was, i'd be using it to play around
Dec 13 18:29:16 <Shadyman> indeed
Dec 13 18:29:28 <Tommy> the whole reason i got it, i figured what the hell, i'll get to mess with webOS (i'm an android user)... no wifi? golly gee, wonder why it didn't sell
Dec 13 18:29:45 <Shadyman> No wifi? Fail.
Dec 13 18:29:50 <Shadyman> ebay it
Dec 13 18:30:28 <Tommy> eh
Dec 13 18:30:42 <Tommy> i paid $38 shipped, ebay fees and paypal fees and such, rather avoid it
Dec 13 18:32:17 <dwc-> singmajesty: I think if you set it in the bios you can disable the discrete chipset
Dec 13 18:34:44 <singmajesty> It depends on the laptop
Dec 13 18:36:26 <singmajesty> Okay, NME 3.1 is now final :)
Dec 13 18:40:08 <Tommy> are there 3rd party launchers for webOS?
Dec 13 18:48:37 <oilsworkn> what is this, android?
Dec 13 18:49:09 <singmajesty> No, the answer is no
Dec 13 18:49:14 <singmajesty> You can do a custom dashboard
Dec 13 18:49:20 <singmajesty> Or an application
Dec 13 18:49:25 <singmajesty> But you can't swap out the launcher
Dec 13 18:50:12 <singmajesty> Well, having a physical webOS device can help if you want to do C/C++ development, especially
Dec 13 18:50:32 <singmajesty> I use NME, which converts "Flash like" code to C/C++ and compiles it for you
Dec 13 18:50:43 <singmajesty> So, that's one use for a Pixi
Dec 13 18:51:59 <oilsworkn> well, until the source is out whenever that happens
Dec 13 18:52:24 <oilsworkn> no doubt the android hackers will screw up our ecosystem
Dec 13 18:52:44 <singmajesty> Well, they are used to having different builds of Android
Dec 13 18:52:53 <oilsworkn> they'll have people installing l33t r0mz in no time
Dec 13 18:53:09 <singmajesty> I hope that the energy of hackers can be spent on working together, like webOS internals has been, than on fragmenting it
Dec 13 18:53:22 <singmajesty> Fortunately there is already "protocol" in place for patches, etc
Dec 13 18:53:30 <oilsworkn> we can only hope we can keep it together
Dec 13 18:53:39 <singmajesty> So we can lean on people to push them towards patches you can install/uninstall instead of forking the OS
Dec 13 18:54:10 <singmajesty> I think it would be neat if webOS could be installed on multiple Android devices
Dec 13 18:54:17 <singmajesty> But the same OS -- not special, one-off versions
Dec 13 18:54:58 <zer0her0> most android dev is centered around cyanogenmod
Dec 13 18:56:12 <zer0her0> or alot, most of the fragmentation i saw when i was playing around with android more was either one-half dozen devs doing their own forks of cyan or vanilla android or handset makers stuff.
Dec 13 18:57:07 <singmajesty> I think the TouchPad build is, maybe, a good example of how the webOS community helped influence Android devs working with webOS
Dec 13 18:57:18 <singmajesty> I haven't tried it myself, but I heard it was a clean dual-boot
Dec 13 18:57:49 <singmajesty> Which probably wouldn't have happened if you guys had not stepped in to help
Dec 13 18:58:08 <singmajesty> (at least to help point things in that direction)
Dec 13 18:58:40 <zer0her0> cool, i think i'm gonna hold off on hardware purchase till actual source drops
Dec 13 18:59:59 <singmajesty> It's wishful thinking, I guess, but I'd love to have new phone hardware that supports gestures
Dec 13 19:00:32 <singmajesty> Android's home, back, menu and search buttons should map to webOS pretty well, but the back swipe and up swipe feel really nice :)
Dec 13 19:10:34 <oilsworkn> sugardave: its turning out to be a lot easier then i thought it would be... http://ompldr.org/vYnE0aA
Dec 13 19:11:12 <SoulShadow> i like android on my touchpad, but until it's ICS it's useless
Dec 13 19:11:35 <SoulShadow> i'm still attempting to find the right 'use case' for a tablet
Dec 13 19:11:59 <halfhalo> my use cases are web, netflix, hulu, and deving.
Dec 13 19:12:01 * oilsworkn uses his tablet daily to watch tv shows during his lunch
Dec 13 19:12:13 <singmajesty> A tablet seems best for web browsing, email or if you can get videos on it
Dec 13 19:12:18 <SoulShadow> i don't have netflix and hulu's quality leaves something to be desired
Dec 13 19:12:18 <singmajesty> Or games can be fun
Dec 13 19:12:30 <singmajesty> I heard Amazon Video also works
Dec 13 19:12:30 <SoulShadow> i find something more along the lines of a kindle fire to be better sized for games
Dec 13 19:13:33 <oilsworkn> i dont remember the name of hte app i use to watch em, but the shows i copy on via usb
Dec 13 19:14:31 <oilsworkn> however, canvas is crazy perfect for implementing logo haha
Dec 13 19:15:36 <zer0her0> SoulShadow: Use Case: Evernote, Email, eBooks, Netflix, data entry for tracking/managing equipment/inventory.
Dec 13 19:28:07 <sugardave> oilsworkn: sweet!
Dec 13 19:30:37 <oilsworkn> parsing the code has the possibility of being a pain in the ass though :/
Dec 13 19:31:42 <sugardave> you da man
Dec 13 19:31:58 <singmajesty> So Gnome 3 installs really well in Ubuntu 11.10
Dec 13 19:32:14 <singmajesty> I forgot... the most interesting thing about it is that you don't minimize applications
Dec 13 19:32:19 <singmajesty> You switch to a new desktop or you close it
Dec 13 19:39:19 <SoulShadow> meh, i use my tablet for very occassional android-based gaming, and mostly just browsing when i'm too lazy to use the laptop
Dec 13 20:09:39 <zephjc> anything good goin on?
Dec 13 20:09:54 <oilsworkn> LUNCH! brb
Dec 13 20:10:10 <AMR-1> check the dev forums announcements
Dec 13 20:10:56 <zer0her0> link?
Dec 13 20:11:57 <zephjc> who is webOSdev?
Dec 13 20:12:08 <zephjc> obviously the community manager heh
Dec 13 20:12:30 <singmajesty> Chuq
Dec 13 20:12:38 <zephjc> ahh ok
Dec 13 20:14:40 <zephjc> so why are people using node.js with enyo?  Is enyo missing a number of features that node.js has?
Dec 13 20:15:06 <Brybry> node.js is for services and such
Dec 13 20:15:37 <zephjc> hrm
Dec 13 20:15:46 <singmajesty> Normally, you would have "client side" and "server side" code
Dec 13 20:15:51 <Brybry> or at least that's my understanding (like you'd have an enyo frontend that communicates with your node.js backend)
Dec 13 20:15:58 <singmajesty> In a way, having node.js on the device gives you the ability to write both
Dec 13 20:16:10 <Brybry> I've only done C/C++ PDK stuff so far though =x
Dec 13 20:16:28 <singmajesty> Normally you wouldn't be able to write files, etc, with normal Javascript
Dec 13 20:16:35 <singmajesty> (like you can with C/C++)
Dec 13 20:16:49 <zephjc> oh wow, i thought enyo provided all that
Dec 13 20:17:06 <zephjc> local I/O is a biggy
Dec 13 20:17:53 <zephjc> even if its sandboxed I/O
Dec 13 20:21:44 <singmajesty> Yeah, Enyo still lives on the client side
Dec 13 20:21:57 <singmajesty> So "jumping the wall" usually requires C/C++ or Node.js
Dec 13 20:23:17 <zephjc> sounds like its something that should just be part of either enyo or as a node.js-like service with known javascript APIs
Dec 13 20:23:34 <zephjc> altho local files are less and less important, theyre still very nice to have in a lot of instances
Dec 13 20:23:49 <zephjc> having to jump thru hoops to get it seems like a stumbling block
Dec 13 20:23:50 <wrea> anyone know of a source for a deb or other package for nodejs for arm so i dont have to try cross compiling it
Dec 13 20:24:03 <singmajesty> Well, webOS does allow local files (in the application directory) for AJAX requests
Dec 13 20:24:14 <singmajesty> Would be a lot worse, otherwise :)
Dec 13 20:24:54 <zephjc> apps could still have their own data directories too
Dec 13 20:25:32 <zephjc> that can only write to their own dir (or subdir therein, but that's not very important)
Dec 13 20:25:43 <zephjc> and only read from within that dir too
Dec 13 20:26:10 <zephjc> and there could be an API to copy files to/from removable storage
Dec 13 20:27:53 <singmajesty> I think it would be cool to have a libpdl-style library for Javascript
Dec 13 20:28:07 <singmajesty> Independent of Enyo, so you can use it with any library
Dec 13 20:28:19 <zephjc> whats libpdl?
Dec 13 20:28:32 <zephjc> nm, googled it :)
Dec 13 20:31:46 <singmajesty> Looks like the first results on Google are something different
Dec 13 20:32:06 <singmajesty> libpdl provides the webOS-specific APIs for PDK applications
Dec 13 20:32:10 <zephjc> yeah, i assume you mean
Dec 13 20:32:11 <zephjc> yeah
Dec 13 20:32:17 <singmajesty> PDL_isAppLicensedForDevice, etc.
Dec 13 20:32:21 <zephjc> right
Dec 13 20:32:42 <singmajesty> Instead of having "Mojo APIs" and "Enyo APIs", have a simple JS file you can include with any kind of web application
Dec 13 20:35:42 <zephjc> what runs the javascript on webOS programs? is it its own javascript vm, or something else?
Dec 13 20:38:21 <singmajesty> WebKit
Dec 13 20:38:25 <singmajesty> V8
Dec 13 20:38:49 <singmajesty> The Javascript is executed by Google's V8 engine
Dec 13 20:38:50 <zephjc> ah so its just V8 on arm - seems like using node.js instead of vanilla V8 would be a good change
Dec 13 20:40:20 <zephjc> access to all those libraries, importing in code rather than in json files
Dec 13 20:41:30 <zephjc> deprecating Mojo apps for the next minor version, killing em off totally by the next major version
Dec 13 20:42:45 <singmajesty> Mojo apps still work
Dec 13 20:42:46 <zephjc> oh, it already uses node for some things
Dec 13 20:43:19 <zephjc> im in my "if i was dictator for webOS going forward" mode at the moment :)
Dec 13 20:43:42 <zephjc> keep mojo around, but warn developers that its going away in the next major version
Dec 13 20:44:40 <SoulShadow> webos needs a lot lot of work to be viable
Dec 13 20:44:42 <SoulShadow> as an OS
Dec 13 20:45:04 <zephjc> agreed
Dec 13 20:45:04 <singmajesty> I think that webOS development has seemed very synonymous with Enyo development
Dec 13 20:45:22 <singmajesty> I would prefer that web development, or native development, be stressed as choices
Dec 13 20:45:42 <singmajesty> Mojo and Enyo are application frameworks, like Sencha Touch, jQuery Mobile and other frameworks
Dec 13 20:46:04 <zephjc> right
Dec 13 20:46:09 <singmajesty> That's why I think a lightweight, OS-specific script would be nice
Dec 13 20:46:25 <zephjc> var enyo = require('enyo');
Dec 13 20:46:25 <singmajesty> C/C++ development on webOS is already straightforward
Dec 13 20:46:41 <singmajesty> Though I hear it being forgotten when people discuss webOS development
Dec 13 20:46:55 <singmajesty> I believe that the web stack has benefits for applications, but heavy costs in performance
Dec 13 20:47:12 <singmajesty> C/C++ performs well, but isn't always as productive for creating applications
Dec 13 20:47:51 <singmajesty> The benchmarks I've seen pin C++ code, compiled with GNU G++, as up to 140 times faster than Javascript executed by V8
Dec 13 20:47:58 <singmajesty> Or as slow as about 3 times faster
Dec 13 20:48:08 <singmajesty> Just the nature of compiled vs. interpreted code
Dec 13 20:48:19 <zephjc> well v8 JITs the javascript
Dec 13 20:48:25 <singmajesty> So that's why native is especially great for games
Dec 13 20:49:19 <singmajesty> http://www.joshuagranick.com/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Slide3.jpg
Dec 13 20:49:50 <zephjc> wowzer
Dec 13 20:49:51 <singmajesty> You can also see that the Javascript uses as little as 1/10th the amount of code as C++
Dec 13 20:50:01 <zephjc> yeah
Dec 13 20:50:03 <singmajesty> So there's an argument here, as well, for how Javascript may be better for a workflow
Dec 13 20:50:29 <singmajesty> But that's why I'm into things like NME, which let me write my code in a nice high-level language, but compile to C++ and get that performance
Dec 13 20:50:57 <zephjc> NME?
Dec 13 20:51:00 <singmajesty> haxe is similar to Javascript, but includes classes, strong types, compiler type inference, compiler error checking, code completion, iterators, generics, typedefs, interfaces, etc
Dec 13 20:51:08 <singmajesty> http://www.haxenme.org
Dec 13 20:51:13 <zephjc> ahh ok
Dec 13 20:51:41 <singmajesty> But haxe compiles to Javascript, C++, PHP and SWF bytecode
Dec 13 20:51:47 <singmajesty> Kind of interesting
Dec 13 20:52:26 <zephjc> i couldnt care less about classes, i think class-based programming conflates code a lot, but optional typing would be a good add on for v8
Dec 13 20:53:13 <singmajesty> Well, its kind of cool
Dec 13 20:53:17 <singmajesty> Since it has type inference...
Dec 13 20:53:24 <singmajesty> If you type: var hi = "Hello";
Dec 13 20:53:35 <singmajesty> then when you type hi. you will get completion for charAt, etc.
Dec 13 20:53:44 <singmajesty> since it knows that "hi" is a String
Dec 13 20:53:57 <singmajesty> So you don't have to write extra syntax to add type information
Dec 13 20:54:14 <zephjc> well, thats cool
Dec 13 20:54:52 <singmajesty> I wrote a library so you can write Enyo applications using haxe JS, but no one has really seemed very interested
Dec 13 20:54:52 <zephjc> tho Chrome/Safari do that too (recent WebKit nightlies have a nice dropdown for code completion)
Dec 13 20:55:10 <singmajesty> var button = new enyo.B (suggestions enyo.Button, etc)
Dec 13 20:55:23 <singmajesty> button.c (suggests caption, classname)
Dec 13 20:55:56 <zephjc> right
Dec 13 20:56:12 <zephjc> does it follow javascript fairly closely?
Dec 13 20:56:30 <singmajesty> Its really different than CoffeeScript or DART
Dec 13 20:56:46 <singmajesty> In general, its the same as Javascript
Dec 13 20:56:54 <zephjc> i dont care for coffeescript
Dec 13 20:56:56 <singmajesty> Though it does use classes for OOP instead of prototypes
Dec 13 20:57:05 <singmajesty> But the syntax is very much the same
Dec 13 20:57:15 <singmajesty> I was able to copy and paste big blobs of Enyo code into haxe and have it work
Dec 13 20:57:24 <zephjc> nice hehe
Dec 13 20:57:53 <zephjc> i come from working in python a lot, so coffeescript's whitespace doesnt frighten me, but i dont care of a lot of its syntactic choices
Dec 13 20:58:21 <singmajesty> I've done the most programming in Javascript and Actionscript
Dec 13 20:58:34 <singmajesty> AS1 felt a lot like Javascript
Dec 13 20:58:47 <singmajesty> AS3 moved that into classes, packages, etc.
Dec 13 20:58:51 <zephjc> yeah
Dec 13 20:59:05 <singmajesty> At first I didn't like it, but then I found that I was a lot more productive with AS3 -- especially with an IDE with good code completion
Dec 13 20:59:14 <singmajesty> haxe is somewhere in the middle, sort of
Dec 13 20:59:24 <zephjc> hehe
Dec 13 20:59:26 <singmajesty> Because of type inference, it feels a bit less strict than AS3
Dec 13 20:59:29 <singmajesty> But it has more features
Dec 13 21:07:55 <zephjc> if i was to start all over again, from the ground up: linux, webkit & node.js, jquery, a jquery extension to provide all the UI elements
Dec 13 21:12:08 <singmajesty> Sounds like webOS
Dec 13 21:12:34 <zephjc> well yeah hehe
Dec 13 21:12:41 <singmajesty> Except, it should be made more obvious that you *can* use jQuery to create a traditional web application
Dec 13 21:13:04 <zephjc> webOS isnt bad, but there are more "standard" components these days
Dec 13 21:13:04 <singmajesty> You just need to call PalmSystem.stageReady() in your code to get the icon to stop pulsing
Dec 13 21:13:14 <singmajesty> Which should be changed, I feel
Dec 13 21:13:51 <singmajesty> Well, "We bring the web browser, you bring the code" is a good motto for a web-based platform
Dec 13 21:16:21 <zephjc> maybe
Dec 13 21:16:52 <zephjc> but that implies that the platform provides web services, which might be harder to do once the system is OSed
Dec 13 21:18:09 <zephjc> since it wont have a revenue stream to pay for hosting
Dec 13 21:21:53 <singmajesty> Well, I was meaning "web browser" in terms of the local web application runtime
Dec 13 21:22:06 <zephjc> gotcha
Dec 13 21:22:10 <singmajesty> So its local code, not hosted, but the same principle of a web runtime still applies
Dec 13 21:22:15 <singmajesty> Instead of picking favorites :)
Dec 13 21:24:16 <zephjc> yeah - and also "use our code, its really cool, and can do pretty much all you need".  When people import or make a lot of their own stuff it leads to UI fragmentation
Dec 13 21:27:01 <zephjc> a web UI isnt good for things that require very low latency, like anything game or audio related
Dec 13 21:27:47 <zephjc> or i should say, current implementations of the fastest web technology isnt good for those things
Dec 13 22:01:14 <Proximity> hi there, my webos doctor stops at 12% does anyone have a solution for this doctoring stage?
Dec 13 22:02:40 <madnificent> Proximity: any error messages that might help someone?
Dec 13 22:07:29 <dwc-> (pastebin the output from your java -jar doctor)
Dec 13 22:08:04 <rwhitby> never doctor blind, always run it on the command line
Dec 13 22:08:20 <Proximity> hey i tried it the 11th time an now its at 22%
Dec 13 22:08:32 <Proximity> 26 %
Dec 13 22:09:33 <Proximity> thanks for your helping "aura" (doctoring+10 on webOS-Devices) :-D
Dec 13 22:11:12 <dwc-> it'll be nice if we get the src to the doctor to drop that output into a file as well for the double-clickers
Dec 13 22:11:49 <dwc-> actually... that's something that could probably be done now, via decompilation/modification/recompilation (but maybe not worth the effort)
Dec 13 22:11:59 <dwc-> and that'd only help the meta'ers anyways
Dec 13 22:12:09 <rwhitby> I think it already does - it's just that windows folks haven't found where it is
Dec 13 22:12:24 <rwhitby> (the log file)
Dec 13 22:12:30 <dwc-> ahh
Dec 13 22:19:50 <Proximity> doctoring has been successful to my Prē² with 2.1.0
Dec 13 22:22:00 <Proximity> It's been my first doctoring and I'm happy. Thank you very much for the help. I'm fit for the 2.2.4 Doctor when it's publicly available and can help others who might get stuck in the doctoring process.
Dec 13 22:24:52 <zephjc> whats doctoring?
Dec 13 22:26:24 <summatusmentis> it's a process using software offered by Palm/HP that re-installs the OS on your device, and returns it to factory defaults
Dec 13 22:36:53 <zephjc> ahh ok
Dec 13 22:47:13 <oilsworkn> sugardave: http://ompldr.org/vYnE5eQ actually parses that string and thats what it draws :)
Dec 13 22:47:28 <oilsworkn> ill be pissed if i get home and install this to my tp and the canvas stuff im doing doesnt work :(
Dec 13 22:49:33 <zephjc> why wouldnt it work?
Dec 13 22:49:57 <singmajesty> Different versions of webkit
Dec 13 22:50:01 <oilsworkn> wouldn't be the first time i try to do canvas stuff that doesn't work on-device
Dec 13 22:56:22 <Tibfib> soooo anyone looking for an intern this summer?
Dec 13 22:57:41 <summatusmentis> you can be my personal assistant
Dec 13 22:57:45 <summatusmentis> it doesn't pay very well
Dec 13 22:58:19 <zephjc> All the Mr Pibb you can drink! (Limit 3 cans per day)
Dec 13 22:58:59 <Proximity> good night
Dec 13 22:59:04 <Tibfib> that's tempting
Dec 13 23:19:21 <akanster> Tibfib: SimplyHired.com
Dec 13 23:39:59 * halfhalo hopes to be in the same place he was last summer.  muahahaha
Dec 13 23:40:10 <zephjc> where was that?
Dec 13 23:40:42 <halfhalo> hp
Dec 13 23:46:57 <zephjc> nice
Dec 13 23:47:12 <akanster> they are still fixing the things he broke
Dec 13 23:47:15 <akanster> ;)
Dec 13 23:47:18 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 23:47:32 <wrea> and replacing the things he stole
Dec 13 23:47:41 <zephjc> halfhalo is the reason webOS is being OSed!
Dec 13 23:47:42 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 23:47:45 <dwc-> that's why there were no pre3 for the rest of us
Dec 13 23:47:47 <zephjc> lol
Dec 13 23:53:47 <oilsworkn> he was like "look leo, it just aint workin' out"
Dec 13 23:54:06 <SoulShadow> ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR
Dec 13 23:54:24 <akanster> random sentence of that day goes to SoulShadow!
Dec 13 23:54:28 <akanster> the*
Dec 13 23:54:44 <SoulShadow> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nTceKzFprXA/TudWxfk-7VI/AAAAAAAAH2c/OaxPjKoyc1o/s435/Image5.png
Dec 13 23:55:19 <akanster> heh
Dec 13 23:55:53 <akanster> the directions from SF to Hawaii has "kayak the Pacific Ocean" or something
Dec 14 00:14:54 <akanster> Do Sencha Touch apps work fluidly on the TouchPad?
Dec 14 00:24:08 <singmajesty> I tried Sencha Touch 2, and it didn't seem to work right
Dec 14 00:24:17 <singmajesty> Though I've seen Sencha Touch 1 apps running properly
Dec 14 00:24:28 <singmajesty> It could be something small, I didn't dig into it further
Dec 14 00:52:51 <oil> ofcourse context.setTransform doesn't work on webos canvas :(
Dec 14 00:53:15 <singmajesty> does that kill everything you worked on?
Dec 14 00:53:26 <singmajesty> or is that just an effect?
Dec 14 00:53:37 <singmajesty> (haven't used canvas a lot)
Dec 14 00:54:04 <Eearslya> Okay, stupid question, but one that I just can't find the answer to. How do I call pushScene from within a SceneAssistant's function?
Dec 14 00:54:46 <oil> i have to figure out another way to reset the translations :/
Dec 14 00:54:53 <singmajesty> Is it something like this.controller.pushScene ()?
Dec 14 00:55:10 <NuttyBunny_Pre3> greetings
Dec 14 00:55:29 <singmajesty> How complex are the commands?
Dec 14 00:55:36 <singmajesty> Is it like, begin fill, line to, end fill?
Dec 14 00:55:52 <Eearslya> singmajesty: That gives me: Uncaught TypeError: Object #<an anonymous> has no method 'pushScene', app/assistants/main-assistant.js:21
Dec 14 00:56:57 <singmajesty> this.controller.stageController.pushScene?
Dec 14 00:57:10 <fxspec06> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Dec 14 00:57:19 <singmajesty> I forget, I haven't done it forever :)
Dec 14 00:57:27 <fxspec06> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo =(
Dec 14 00:57:31 <fxspec06> https://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19295
Dec 14 00:58:11 <oil> nevermind, it does work
Dec 14 00:58:23 <oil> it was a sizing thing due to my browser being faster at rendering then the touchpad
Dec 14 00:58:30 <NuttyBunny_Pre3> fxspec06: See the date and time :P
Dec 14 00:58:43 <Eearslya> singmajesty: That worked, thanks! Odd, because I swear I tried that before.
Dec 14 00:58:44 <oil> on the tp getting the dimensions there returns 0s, on my pc it gets the size
Dec 14 00:58:48 <oil> move that, and bam, its good
Dec 14 00:59:05 <singmajesty> Oh, great
Dec 14 00:59:38 <fxspec06> yeah but i been gone all day
Dec 14 01:00:09 <singmajesty> Didn't the Enyo documentation say it was "turtles all the way down"?
Dec 14 01:00:24 <singmajesty> If it didn't let you run your drawing program, that saying might have been proven untrue.
Dec 14 01:00:25 <akanster> fxspec06:  :(
Dec 14 01:00:29 <singmajesty> (which would be horrible)
Dec 14 01:08:58 <summatusmentis> has anyone had success playing turntable on their TP?
Dec 14 01:13:02 <halfhalo> pre3 yunolike google voice?
Dec 14 01:17:12 <halfhalo> Ruh Roh! Adora!
Dec 14 01:17:25 <Adora> oh, finally
Dec 14 01:17:41 <Adora> can't connect to irc from the office
Dec 14 01:17:48 <rwhitby> hey Adora
Dec 14 01:18:06 <Adora> rwhitby:  hello  =]
Dec 14 01:18:20 <halfhalo> Somewhere there is a port that got me through the firewall to freenode...
Dec 14 01:19:00 <Adora> halfhalo:  when I was really fighting this a while (month) ago, I looked up and tried all of the documented ones
Dec 14 01:19:30 <Adora> it might also have to do with not being on the wire, since I haven't been carrying around my usb ethernet thingie for the mba
Dec 14 01:19:56 <sugardave> chuqui cued me into port 8000
Dec 14 01:20:14 <halfhalo> ^^ may be that.  and iirc no port was blocked on the pub wifi.
Dec 14 01:20:22 <sugardave> which I have to use if I'm on the HP laptop whether I'm on the Palm VPN or not
Dec 14 01:20:28 <sugardave> it's weird
Dec 14 01:20:41 <Adora> sugardave: will try that during my next monthly office visit
Dec 14 01:20:41 <singmajesty> Did you know that HTML evaluates strings as colors?
Dec 14 01:20:42 <singmajesty> http://jsfiddle.net/pbyTX/
Dec 14 01:21:00 <Shadyman> lol
Dec 14 01:21:19 <Shadyman> Ooh, I'm teal/.
Dec 14 01:21:27 <sugardave> I'm teal as well
Dec 14 01:21:40 <halfhalo> sugardave aww.  the laptop I had didn't have that issue, but my crap wifi router blocked it.
Dec 14 01:22:10 <halfhalo> lightgreen for my username and teal for my name
Dec 14 01:23:21 <singmajesty> Funny!
Dec 14 01:23:33 <singmajesty> I just tried my username, and it looks like it comes out to the *same green*
Dec 14 01:25:04 <singmajesty> Ah, they are close
Dec 14 01:25:13 <singmajesty> singmajesty -> (0, 160, 0)
Dec 14 01:25:20 <singmajesty> joshuagranick -> (0, 160, 12)
Dec 14 01:28:24 <akanster> how is it calculating those RGB values?
Dec 14 01:28:35 <halfhalo> Oh you little Air.  You really need more ram for me to run this VM constantly
Dec 14 01:28:53 <summatusmentis> grah, don't say that!
Dec 14 01:29:05 <summatusmentis> just re-solidifies that I need a MBP
Dec 14 01:29:10 <singmajesty> I'm ... really not sure
Dec 14 01:29:17 <singmajesty> Maybe we could reverse-engineer what HTML is thinking
Dec 14 01:29:33 <akanster> GET THE DELOREAN!
Dec 14 01:29:51 <singmajesty> Great Scott!
Dec 14 01:31:30 <singmajesty> http://delorean.com/sales/
Dec 14 01:31:40 <singmajesty> Starting with a new, improved design, stainless steel chassis, we use a combination of new old stock (NOS), original equipment manufacturer (OEM) and our line of reproduction parts to create a DeLorean car to your specification. Whether you go ?stock? or upgrade to one of our performance engine and suspension packages, other modern amenities including HD and satellite radios, iPod® interfaces, satelllite navigation, and Bl
Dec 14 01:31:40 <singmajesty> also available.
Dec 14 01:32:35 <dwc-> no more irc from the office?
Dec 14 01:32:37 <wrea> There is an original here I see driving around town
Dec 14 01:32:44 * dwc- swears he's seen chuq and others on irc from palm.com
Dec 14 01:33:28 <singmajesty> I think it depends on which connection you were on
Dec 14 01:33:44 <singmajesty> Whether inside/outside the firewall, etc.
Dec 14 01:34:12 <singmajesty> IIRC
Dec 14 01:34:17 <singmajesty> if (IRC)
Dec 14 01:34:59 <wrea> yeah, chuq was in here a lot
Dec 14 01:35:26 <akanster> I remember his reign of terror!
Dec 14 01:36:01 <akanster> but really, it sucks he's leaving
Dec 14 01:37:43 <singmajesty> We've been very grateful to have him! :)
Dec 14 01:47:12 <halfhalo> textmate 2..... mmmmm
Dec 14 01:50:45 <singmajesty> I hear that a lot of people have started believing in God again, after hearing that TextMate 2 exists
Dec 14 01:55:14 <akanster> I love seeing mom and pop stores use Square to collect payments
Dec 14 02:13:46 <fxspec06> so i know i'm late to the party, but i'm gonna miss chuqi
Dec 14 02:44:49 <EricBlade1> wow, two rejections this week, no reasons given :( wth
Dec 14 02:45:14 <EricBlade1> it's like i'm trying to date HP or something
Dec 14 02:46:06 <Tibfib> Did you make it to first base at least?
Dec 14 02:46:23 <EricBlade1> no, but two other apps did.  what a slut.
Dec 14 02:47:00 <EricBlade1> ..or rather, what a whore.  a slut will approve anyone, a whore will approve anyone but me.
Dec 14 02:47:16 <EricBlade1> or in this case, but my main app
Dec 14 02:51:45 <Tibfib> tsk tsk
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