**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 21 02:59:57 2012
Jan 21 04:27:58 * EricBlade yawns
Jan 21 05:14:42 * DougReeder waves hello
Jan 21 05:14:47 <EricBlade> howdy
Jan 21 05:14:58 <DougReeder> 'sup?
Jan 21 05:15:35 <EricBlade> trying to see if i can compile a big giant project for android :|
Jan 21 05:15:55 <EricBlade> gcc is -really- slow compared to microsoft's compiler
Jan 21 05:16:40 <DougReeder> it would have to huge for that to make a difference.
Jan 21 05:17:11 <EricBlade> whole project takes about 20 minutes to compile with the visual studio compiler, i've been compiling about 20 minutes so far and it's not even halfway thru
Jan 21 05:17:49 <DougReeder> I gotta start on a plugin.  Any tips not in the docs?
Jan 21 05:18:09 <EricBlade> don't try to run it in an app that doesn't have a window
Jan 21 05:19:46 <DougReeder> Hmm? How so?
Jan 21 05:20:05 <DougReeder> You mean a nowindow app?
Jan 21 05:20:16 <EricBlade> yea, you need to run it in a window
Jan 21 05:20:28 <DougReeder> ...that hasn't manually created a window yet?
Jan 21 05:20:37 <EricBlade> right
Jan 21 05:20:42 <DougReeder> huh.
Jan 21 05:20:51 <EricBlade> and the hybrid needs to be declared in the visible window
Jan 21 05:21:28 <EricBlade> unless there's some way to make everything think that it was rendered
Jan 21 05:24:53 <DougReeder> It's rather different than a PalmOS armlet, then.
Jan 21 05:25:13 <DougReeder> Not surprising, given its purpose
Jan 21 06:10:53 <EricBlade> well i -think- i got it built.  now i need to figure out how to get it to transfer and run heh
Jan 21 06:11:17 <dwc-> gcc on windows?
Jan 21 06:11:23 <EricBlade> yeah
Jan 21 06:11:30 <dwc-> cygwin, or ... ?
Jan 21 06:12:00 <EricBlade> umm.. maybe
Jan 21 06:12:14 <EricBlade> i'm not sure where the compiler came from, after i installed like 10 gigs of support software to make this happen
Jan 21 06:13:04 <EricBlade> looks like it comes from the android toolkit
Jan 21 06:13:51 <EricBlade> i was hoping that it would be easy to port this to webOS once i got the android version built, however, it appears that it is compiling it into a java app and then running that in the android jvm, somehow
Jan 21 06:16:02 <dwc-> ahh
Jan 21 06:17:44 <EricBlade> maybe the macosx would be a better place to start
Jan 21 06:49:56 <EricBlade> anyone here have actual experience with getting something running in android?
Jan 21 06:57:21 <invalidopcode> EricBlade: how much experience do you need? i've built a few small apps and gotten them running on Android before (but im no expert)
Jan 21 06:59:02 <EricBlade> mind if i pm?
Jan 21 06:59:28 <invalidopcode> sure
Jan 21 06:59:39 <invalidopcode> ack... my stupid nick won't change
Jan 21 07:00:37 <invalidopcode> wait... were you talking to me, or someone else?
Jan 21 07:01:20 <invalidopcode> nvm
Jan 21 07:06:27 <halfhalo> bleh
Jan 21 07:07:28 <jzmer> is it possible to build webos on gentoo and boot into webos' gui?
Jan 21 07:07:45 <halfhalo> no
Jan 21 07:07:56 <jzmer> halfhalo: is there a reason?
Jan 21 07:08:10 <jzmer> isnt that webos uses directfb?
Jan 21 07:08:16 <halfhalo> no sources yet
Jan 21 07:09:09 <jzmer> but isnt that hp contributed webos to open source already?
Jan 21 07:09:55 <halfhalo> they announced they were.  it takes time.
Jan 21 07:10:25 <jzmer> i see. that was just an "announcement"
Jan 21 07:10:40 <invalidopcode> they want to make sure they clean up all of the ugly palm code :P
Jan 21 07:11:19 <rwatkins> more like untangle the parts of the code they dont own and thus cant open source.
Jan 21 07:12:06 <invalidopcode> booo hoo, they should tell the other companies its for betterment of humanity and get over it
Jan 21 07:12:31 <rwatkins> ya, I'm sure Microsoft buys that argument everytime someone comes asking about ActiveSync.
Jan 21 07:14:22 <invalidopcode> haha actually, i think the protocol for Active Sync is public by microsoft http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc425499%28v=exchg.80%29.aspx
Jan 21 07:16:18 <rwatkins> there is protocol documentation and then there is code implementation.
Jan 21 07:16:50 <halfhalo> heh.  apparently my webcam is still on at the booth
Jan 21 07:16:57 <invalidopcode> so its all about how much time you have on your hands :P
Jan 21 07:19:03 <invalidopcode> rwatkins: im just giving you a hard time, I perfectly understand the logistics of it
Jan 21 09:21:22 <EricBlade> sweet got this thing running in cm7 and cm9 on the touchpad.. now to figure out how the hell to build it for webos
Jan 21 17:39:03 * halfhalo goes and cranks desktop up to dodgy levels for vm building stuff
Jan 21 17:44:05 <dwc-> Prepare ship for ludicrous speed!
Jan 21 17:50:43 <PuffTheMagic> how do I close a webos app from within the webos app
Jan 21 17:50:49 <PuffTheMagic> this.close() did not seem to do the trick
Jan 21 18:18:48 <fxspec06> window.close();
Jan 21 18:18:55 <fxspec06> er i have a code somewhere if i can find it
Jan 21 18:19:59 <fxspec06> window.open('', '_self', '');
Jan 21 18:19:59 <fxspec06> window.close();
Jan 21 19:27:20 <EricBlade> well got my apps running in phonegap on android.  yuck.
Jan 21 19:29:46 <fxspec06> lol, yuck .. ?
Jan 21 19:29:59 <fxspec06> curious what you're seeing for 'yuck' =p
Jan 21 19:30:13 <fxspec06> possibly same issues i am having..
Jan 21 19:31:14 <Shadyman> heh 'yuck'
Jan 21 19:42:55 <EricBlade> fxspec06: the scrolling speed is ... think of the strongest word you can think of for "terrible" and then multiply it by a lot.
Jan 21 19:45:30 <EricBlade> and a lot of my code is throwing errors that seem to indicate that there is some major fundamental difference between running in phonegap and running in luna
Jan 21 19:46:33 <EricBlade> like the giant object that holds all the song information that XO keeps track of, is missing. sometimes.
Jan 21 19:50:45 <fxspec06> heh ya like i said, android webview is not GPU accel'd.
Jan 21 19:51:04 <fxspec06> which is such crap, because that also means the browser is not GPU accel'd.
Jan 21 19:51:32 <fxspec06> which is so stupid, because it is.
Jan 21 19:54:47 <EricBlade> it's not a webview, i don't think those even work in phonegap, but the whole.. everything.
Jan 21 19:55:25 <EricBlade> whenever i try to scroll, it says something like "missing drag while waiting for webcore to respond"
Jan 21 20:08:07 <fxspec06> phonegap puts the html in a webview. unless it does something that i didn't know.
Jan 21 20:08:34 <fxspec06> phonegap build*
Jan 21 20:10:46 <fxspec06> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7521963/phonegap-app-performance-vs-native-app-performance
Jan 21 20:11:01 <fxspec06> "BlackBerry phones and many lower end Android phones don't have GPU's, or some Android phones that do have GPU's don't compile webkit for the GPU! Without this your UI app may have that sluggish feel, pages/buttons take that bit longer to respond which is very noticeable when you're trying to whiz through menus."
Jan 21 20:26:24 * DougReeder_ waves hello
Jan 21 20:28:05 <DougReeder_> I'm starting development of a plugin.  I know C, but the docs on developer.palm.com don't step through how to actually set up a project, pass data to a plugin, and return data.
Jan 21 20:28:29 <DougReeder_> Is there a walkthrough of that somewhere?
Jan 21 20:28:51 <EricBlade> fxspec06:  ah.. well, in CM7, the Web is almost definitely accelerated .. but in PhoneGap it's.. really, really, really bad.
Jan 21 20:29:44 <EricBlade> only thing i know of is the "here's our example, see if you can figure it out" sort of thing that palm likes to do
Jan 21 20:30:19 <DougReeder_> Yah.
Jan 21 20:31:24 <DougReeder_> It's irksome. I'm willing to put the time in to understand the webOS API, but I shouldn't need to waste time furing out which of 17,000 thing are necessary.
Jan 21 20:52:00 <EricBlade> all i've done is taken the plugin from the Text To Speech examples, so i'm no real help there.  There was a lot of discussion about how it works on both fahhem's blog and on the dev site in the threads about the app hacks
Jan 21 20:52:43 <DougReeder_> Yes, that was well packaged.
Jan 21 20:52:54 <DougReeder_> I'll go back and read those posts
Jan 21 20:55:39 <DougReeder_> The XCode template does not create a project that can be compiled.
Jan 21 21:01:11 <rwatkins> EricBlade: on android the webkit in PhoneGap is not the same webkit as the browser
Jan 21 21:01:56 <rwatkins> there are features only made available to the browser, not an embedded webview
Jan 21 21:05:17 <RagingMind> daily show works on my touchpad now :)
Jan 21 21:15:04 <EricBlade> rwatkins: yeah that's what i was saying
Jan 21 21:16:59 <rwatkins> so, you put android on a TP?
Jan 21 21:17:11 <EricBlade> yeah one of mine has cm7 the other cm9
Jan 21 21:17:30 <rwatkins> ya need to do that tonight or tomorrow, havent ever tried yet.
Jan 21 21:18:10 <rwatkins> need to find a "good" guide to doing it
Jan 21 21:18:53 <EricBlade> it's really simple. grab the main file, the clockword mod file, the moboot file, put them all in /cminstall on the USB drive, and then memboot the Installer file
Jan 21 21:19:28 <EricBlade> *clockwork
Jan 21 21:21:37 <EricBlade> i just built Unreal on Android, and then got my two webOS apps sort of working.  i really would've thought unreal would've been the harder of the three, but it was actually easiest, other than time spent figuring out the tools
Jan 21 21:22:29 <rwatkins> got papermache mostly ported.  main issue is the lack of background sync - need a no-window solution
Jan 21 21:23:10 <rwatkins> runs ok-ish on a Nexus S w/ ICS too
Jan 21 21:30:36 <EricBlade> unreal is running on CM7 as fast or faster than on my iPod 2.  my apps, however, are slugs
Jan 21 21:30:47 <EricBlade> *iPad 2
Jan 21 21:30:55 <rwatkins> wondering is I should go w/ CP7 or CM9 first
Jan 21 21:31:47 <EricBlade> from what I understand, CM9 has more broken apps, I know Dungeon Defenders doesn't work on it right now, and it does on CM7, but other than that, I can't find any Android apps that I want anyway
Jan 21 21:32:54 <EricBlade> browsing the crappy catalog app is just frustrating
Jan 21 21:35:39 <Tibfib_> wellll, jailbreaking my iphone nowwww
Jan 21 21:41:26 <Tibfib_> that was easy
Jan 21 21:41:53 <rwatkins> "there's no step 3!"
Jan 21 21:42:42 <Tibfib_> some peeps said it took a while, like 30 mins or so
Jan 21 21:42:47 <Tibfib_> that took 3 minutes
Jan 21 21:45:53 <rwatkins> congrats
Jan 21 21:46:20 <rwatkins> so time to take a new touchpad off the shelf, and unfortunately put android on it.
Jan 21 21:47:00 <rwatkins> seems so wrong to taken a new, unopened TouchPad and immediately put Android on it
Jan 21 21:47:08 * DougReeder_ nods
Jan 21 21:48:36 <rwatkins> dont wanna do it to my main one, or to one thats been whitelisted for the SDK env, so .. new one it is.
Jan 21 21:55:22 <EricBlade> it is dual boot... it's not like you have to sacrifice anything
Jan 21 21:56:12 <rwatkins> that good, though I dont exactly trust it to not .. mess with stuff.
Jan 21 21:56:55 <rwhitby> rwatkins: I've been working with the CM guys from the start to make sure that the Android install did not screw up webOS.
Jan 21 21:57:33 <rwhitby> as for what apps could do though, that's anyone's gues
Jan 21 21:57:36 <rwhitby> s
Jan 21 21:58:18 <rwatkins> should atleast register the device and update webOS before .. so when I dual boot back it doesnt update the os and blow away something
Jan 21 21:58:27 <EricBlade> i was rather surprised to discover that the sound glitch also happens in android too
Jan 21 22:19:13 <LarrySteeze> I'm really (really) torn about the whole android on touchpad thing
Jan 21 22:19:56 <LarrySteeze> I haven't done it yet largely because I'm such a webos advocate...but things like netflix really tempt me
Jan 21 22:20:00 <LarrySteeze> and dolphin browser
Jan 21 22:20:52 <DougReeder_> If webOS really is better, you'd mostly ignore the Android stuff.
Jan 21 22:21:04 <LarrySteeze> I'm about ready to do it on one of my touchpads though, at the very least for research purposes
Jan 21 22:21:19 <Tibfib_> LarrySteeze: hey do you know if your uncle(?) has had a chance to talk to the guy at MIT?
Jan 21 22:21:29 <LarrySteeze> I honestly do think webOS is better, but that android has a much better app catelog
Jan 21 22:22:00 <LarrySteeze> Tibfib_: he told me he passed on the info for me
Jan 21 22:22:19 <Tibfib_> awesome, thank you sir!
Jan 21 22:22:25 <LarrySteeze> like I said though, I think you'll get in on your own merit. You're pretty awesome.
Jan 21 22:22:46 <Tibfib_> aww, I'm blushing
Jan 21 22:22:52 <LarrySteeze> o.O don't blush
Jan 21 22:23:02 <LarrySteeze> that's girly
Jan 21 22:23:05 <LarrySteeze> j/k ;-)
Jan 21 22:23:06 <Tibfib_> haha
Jan 21 22:23:40 <LarrySteeze> anyone here very familiar with HTC devices?
Jan 21 22:24:52 <LarrySteeze> not os-specific...just any htc devices released in the last 6 months
Jan 21 22:25:22 <wrea> I want power
Jan 21 22:25:35 <dwc-> plug into the wall?
Jan 21 22:26:05 <wrea> No power in the walls
Jan 21 22:26:18 <wrea> Day 3 without
Jan 21 22:26:24 <DougReeder_> Power corrupts - rejoice in your purity!
Jan 21 22:26:25 <DougReeder_> \
Jan 21 22:28:55 <LarrySteeze> no touchstone built into the wall?
Jan 21 22:29:13 <rwatkins> mine is.
Jan 21 22:29:24 <rwatkins> mounted my TP Touchstone to the wall in the kitchen
Jan 21 22:29:28 <LarrySteeze> I have too many touchstones :-\
Jan 21 22:29:45 <LarrySteeze> I'm using one of the phone touchstones as a refrigerator magnet >.<
Jan 21 22:29:50 <rwatkins> ha
Jan 21 22:30:03 <rwatkins> will have to try that, kids will love it.
Jan 21 22:30:21 <LarrySteeze> the sad part is it's probably the one I spent like $70 on on the day the pre was released
Jan 21 22:30:50 <LarrySteeze> the rest of the phone ones I got for free or dirt cheap...the touchstone ones I think I paid 30-40 for
Jan 21 22:31:05 <LarrySteeze> err touchpad ones
Jan 21 22:32:46 <DougReeder_> Opportunity cost.
Jan 21 22:34:04 <dwc-> the only ones I know of cheaper than the $5 verizonwireless ones were the $2.50 palm firesale ones
Jan 21 22:35:37 <DougReeder_> I picked up a second one when Radio Shack discontinued  acessories
Jan 21 22:50:38 <LarrySteeze> I think I got some when radioshack disco'ed
Jan 21 22:50:54 <LarrySteeze> I got some at a few events
Jan 21 22:51:46 <LarrySteeze> this is dangerous...
Jan 21 22:52:34 <LarrySteeze> I've always known of it's existence...but somehow something just clicked in my head to look for xbox games I've always wanted to try but never wanted to spend the money on on ebay
Jan 21 22:52:50 <LarrySteeze> and i've bought like 10 games in the past couple days for a total of $25
Jan 21 22:53:09 <LarrySteeze> I won't even have time to play 1 of them, I'm sure
Jan 21 22:53:45 <LarrySteeze> is anyone here a multi-OS person? aka android/webos
Jan 21 22:54:42 <rwatkins> multi-os for both desktop and phone.
Jan 21 22:55:02 <rwatkins> osx, win7, ubuntu; ios, android, webos
Jan 21 23:59:43 * halfhalo yawns
Jan 22 00:22:08 * EricBlade throws a status bar notification in halfhalo's open mouth
Jan 22 00:44:10 <halfhalo> lol
Jan 22 01:00:38 <PuffTheMagic> is there a way to set a default app for exhibition
Jan 22 01:00:45 <PuffTheMagic> or do u always have to switch it manually
Jan 22 01:44:16 <dwc-> I think it defaults to the clock, no?
Jan 22 01:45:49 <EricBlade> PuffTheMagic: some apps dont' stick but normally it will remember what it was in (though when a TouchPad encounters a new touchstone, i'm not sure if it defaults to clock or whatever the last exhibition app ran was)
Jan 22 01:53:04 <EricBlade> yay gvoice will get reasonably proper notification support
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 22 02:59:57 2012