**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 01 02:59:59 2012 Mar 01 03:00:20 That's probably best; this isn't really plugin-specific. Mar 01 03:00:42 Bummer that we don't have strlcpy() Mar 01 03:01:25 Damn, this code would be so much faster to write in js Mar 01 03:02:16 why do you need it in c when you come to webos? Mar 01 03:03:59 I need a plugin to access libjpeg. Mar 01 03:19:31 you write webOS code in C Mar 01 06:25:05 pdc has started ignoring my emails :( Mar 01 06:25:32 and although i did get my last app updates approved in record time, an app suspension has been waiting for over 2 weeks now Mar 01 06:25:53 and download numbers appear to be stuck again, or i've had 0 downloads the last 24 hrs, which i guess is also possible Mar 01 13:51:30 EricBlade: I think they're still scrambling from all the lay offs. Mar 01 13:53:12 Tibfib: makes sense, but this started before then. :| Mar 01 13:55:25 yeah Mar 01 16:04:48 anyone know why the Email app wouldn't automatically update one of my accounts? Mar 01 16:04:58 would it be a server thing? or some bug in Email Mar 01 16:15:41 what type of account is it Mar 01 16:15:45 imap or pop[ Mar 01 16:22:36 hmm. looks like the problem with the call alert not appearing all the way is a problem on both 2.2 and 3.0 .. :| Mar 01 16:23:27 just had to reboot both my phone and my touchpad after i answered a call from my home phone, fast enough that although it registered at the pre and touchpad, it stopped ringing before they had a chance to finish drawing the alert box Mar 01 19:25:47 hey everyone Mar 01 19:26:22 is anyone aware of a way to triple boot on moboot? Mar 01 20:44:02 hmmmm Mar 01 20:44:15 how much would you guys pay designers for your app? Mar 01 20:44:24 (% of sales)? Mar 01 20:44:42 And by designers, I mean providing graphics, and some input to UX Mar 01 20:45:38 3 cookies an hour Mar 01 20:45:56 "2 sticks of gum per image" Mar 01 20:45:58 That's way too much Mar 01 20:46:37 I'm thinking 15% if just contributing graphics and around 25% if you help with UX. Mar 01 20:48:09 thoughts? Mar 01 20:48:26 I think it depends on the specific project Mar 01 20:48:46 fair point Mar 01 20:48:58 they won't be games, so it won't require a ton of graphics Mar 01 20:50:09 Well if it isn't a game then I don't have any idea hehe Mar 01 20:50:39 But then I paid both my graphics guys by buying each of them a TouchPad Mar 01 20:51:15 Prices are a lot different for good friends than just some random designer though :) Mar 01 20:51:33 if only there were some place to buy TouchPads Mar 01 20:51:41 hah, I do have an extra touchpad Mar 01 20:51:58 sugardave: Yeah, it was hard to get them Mar 01 20:52:25 you mean besides ebay? Mar 01 20:52:47 yeah, I mean like drive to the store and get a new one Mar 01 20:52:50 that would be awesome Mar 01 20:52:54 yeah, for sure Mar 01 20:53:00 those days are gone, I guess :/ Mar 01 20:53:07 * bigbluehat got his off ebay 2 weeks ago Mar 01 20:53:09 ....for now Mar 01 20:53:17 * sugardave says ominously. Mar 01 20:53:30 DUNDUNDUN Mar 01 20:53:35 :D Mar 01 20:53:37 * bigbluehat hopes Mar 01 20:53:44 haha Mar 01 20:55:45 with respect to the engineers HP fired. could it be that the statement was misunderstood and that HP fired the hardware engineers, not the software engineers? does anyone have a clue what the ramifications are for a newer webos on my lovely veer (which is the perfect smartphone) Mar 01 20:56:52 HP fired software engineers. Mar 01 20:56:56 and dev rel people Mar 01 20:57:02 and everyone else Mar 01 20:57:08 and they killed the whales Mar 01 20:57:11 so, how did they launch the new enyo? Mar 01 20:57:20 i mean, that's taking devs... where do they come from? Mar 01 20:57:21 They didn't fire all of the software engineers Mar 01 20:57:45 madnificent: I thinkk they kept the enyo team mostly intact. but other software engineers were let go Mar 01 20:57:51 From what I understand the core enyo team was not effected Mar 01 20:57:52 ah Mar 01 20:58:00 that kindof makes sense Mar 01 20:58:03 But other software engineers, designers, product managers etc where Mar 01 20:58:12 though that would mean that the veer will most likely not get an official update, right? Mar 01 20:58:50 correct Mar 01 20:59:19 * madnificent sighs and pats his little veer on his back Mar 01 21:00:00 We don't know that for sure, but I think updates for phones seems pretty unlikely at this point Mar 01 21:00:06 guess i'll be rooting for the webos-internals people then :) i really don't want to use another smartphone, this thing is the best i've ever owned Mar 01 21:00:23 minego: yeah, i know i shouldn't hope for official answers here :D Mar 01 21:00:54 They have surprised us with software updates for devices in the past, so it could happen... just don't get your hopes up. Mar 01 21:01:39 i find it a bit sad as they promised that the veer would get an update. but i've learned what promises in webos world are worth. Mar 01 21:01:52 you mean in the HP world Mar 01 21:02:04 palm made incorrect promises as well Mar 01 21:02:49 and some big app vendors did the same thing iirc. not that i blame any devs (i don't like accidentally blaming myself either) Mar 01 21:03:02 palm tried and sometimes failed. It is different with HP. Mar 01 21:03:26 s/sometimes // Mar 01 21:03:49 Palm did not fail on every promise Mar 01 21:04:35 * madnificent doesn't want to get into this. still remembers waiting for over a year to actually get his hands on a pre, on developer docs, on just about anything. Mar 01 21:05:31 that's funny, before the SDK was released someone leaked the developer docs and the text of the oreilly book directly to me Mar 01 21:05:57 and I'm talking about the Mojo SDK....so a LONG time ago Mar 01 21:06:38 sugardave: lucky you!!! thief! i wanted you to accidentally share those docs with me at that time, even though i had no idea who you were back then Mar 01 21:06:56 also, i liked Mojo :) Mar 01 21:07:12 I am the leak motel, leaks check in, but they don't check out Mar 01 21:07:42 sugardave: gimme the name of the song, i can't remember it and now i want to hear it again! Mar 01 21:07:44 pfft, what good is a leak that doesn't get out? Mar 01 21:08:12 Hotel California? I was doing the Raid roach motel commercial, though Mar 01 21:08:16 sugardave: ty! Mar 01 21:08:30 sugardave: i think you have different commercials than i have :) Mar 01 21:08:38 it's an old one :) Mar 01 21:08:58 sugardave: i most likely don't live in your country Mar 01 21:09:23 ah, right....whereabouts are you? Mar 01 21:09:34 belgium Mar 01 21:09:41 definitely not my country :) Mar 01 21:09:44 i think i knew where you lived, but i forgot Mar 01 21:09:57 in the country of texas Mar 01 21:10:00 little blue island in a sea of red, Austin TX Mar 01 21:10:26 * madnificent 's brother has an imported car from TX :) Mar 01 21:10:35 lol Mar 01 21:10:53 didn't contain any leaks though!!! pricks of TX only take, never give back :( ;_; ;) Mar 01 21:11:00 jeez this tooth is killing me. dentist can't get me in until March 15 :/ Mar 01 21:11:14 find another dentist! Mar 01 21:11:44 madnificent: haha, hey man I was approached all hush-hush like, plus I think the real drop was 3-4 days later anyway Mar 01 21:12:04 sugardave: i'm just teasing Mar 01 21:12:32 you might not have gotten them if they assumed you might leak them, so you probably did the right thing. Mar 01 21:13:04 so far, I've managed to do a lot of right things, somehow ;) Mar 01 21:14:01 minego, I may do that when I run out of Vicodin Mar 01 21:14:36 * halfhalo is going to buy a car in TX... bleh Mar 01 21:15:40 because price difference between getting car here and in TX is around 4k. I blame sugardave. Mar 01 21:16:15 it's because of me that cars are so cheap here. I can live with that Mar 01 21:16:33 hah Mar 01 21:16:45 soon... 2007 e93 convertible.... muahahahaha Mar 01 21:18:12 is that because those don't pass CA smog? Mar 01 21:18:35 no. Mar 01 21:18:57 its because its a bmw convertible in socal. people pay to much for em Mar 01 21:19:09 oh, used. Mar 01 21:19:36 yeah Mar 01 21:19:40 dwc-: bmw has rather good emission rates. and quite frankly, they're a love to drive. Mar 01 21:19:51 because bmw's are overpriced new. everything is an option Mar 01 21:19:57 used? not so much Mar 01 21:20:21 people pay too much for BMW's everywhere, not just in socal Mar 01 21:21:08 Don't care about color, or any options besides nav and sport package. Oh, and the 3L Twin Turbo in front Mar 01 21:21:53 halfhalo: and that engine is just awesome! Mar 01 21:22:03 yup Mar 01 21:23:54 * scoutcamper bets halfhalo tries to get webos working on his navsystem Mar 01 21:24:08 Bah Mar 01 21:24:24 lol Mar 01 21:24:41 * sugardave can't wait for webOS-based nav units. Mar 01 21:24:50 that shit will be tight Mar 01 21:25:00 If I did an aftermarket one I would try it, but not the built in one Mar 01 21:25:07 since it has the fancy idrive stuff. Mar 01 21:25:13 actually, i've been thinking about something similar! Mar 01 21:25:27 the Opal would have been PERFECT for that Mar 01 21:25:31 airplay is kinda cool Mar 01 21:25:50 can't think of a single reason I'd ever need it Mar 01 21:26:16 ugg my brain is going to melt and pour out of my ears if I have to fix one more IE bug today.... Mar 01 21:26:38 i'm driving an e30 touring at the moment. my onboard computer is failing. so i either have to replace the display (the big issue being that i don't know where i can find that), or i have to replace the complete unit. i could, however, replace the unit by webos attached to a raspberry pi. that could be an interesting place for webos! Mar 01 21:26:40 ie is teh best Mar 01 21:27:11 madnificent: I vote for webOS + pi Mar 01 21:27:19 madnificent I do really like the pre lci e93. It is a pretty car. Mar 01 21:27:29 and then write the whole thing up, I know a guy that can have that featured a few places ;) Mar 01 21:27:34 halfhalo: pre lci? Mar 01 21:27:41 Tibfib: .... I'm too tired to come up with a witty response to that. Mar 01 21:28:11 09 had a life cycle refresh with new angel eyes and the non-dvd idrive with the bigger screen Mar 01 21:28:22 sugardave: i don't know where to find the components to be fair. nor do i have a clue on how to get webos running on the raspberry pi (though that will become clearer when OpenWebOs is launched). Mar 01 21:29:13 halfhalo: aha. to be fair, my favorite bmw is still the e34 525td (still own it) but that's a personal issue. the engine is just sooo <3 Mar 01 21:29:23 halfhalo: i like older cars :) Mar 01 21:29:27 lol Mar 01 21:30:19 I like the hardtop conv. because its a hardtop. and a convertible. and has a 3L TT. Mar 01 21:30:31 halfhalo: you try to do a controlled powerslide at 130km/h in a modern saloon with 4 passengers. it's hellish, all that computer stuff trying to help me... it freaks me out. Mar 01 21:30:38 halfhalo: yeah, i fully understand your choice! Mar 01 21:31:00 sugardave: i wonder where i could find a small touchscreen. that'll likely become the main issue. Mar 01 21:31:20 plus, besides the hpfp, no real issues have been found with the n54/e9x Mar 01 21:31:42 madnificent: here's a tiny one - http://www.adafruit.com/products/335 Mar 01 21:32:02 minego: haha Mar 01 21:34:49 madnificent: mouser would probably have something like that Mar 01 21:34:52 (mouser.com) Mar 01 21:35:09 sugardave, dwc-: thanks Mar 01 21:36:43 mouser knows my country is a country \o/ Mar 01 21:37:37 heh, mouser....where I used to by the crystal to make red boxes :) Mar 01 21:37:45 but also +1 to adafruit. she puts together some good kit Mar 01 21:44:48 adafruit has stuff, mouser doesn't (or my search-fu is borked) Mar 01 21:48:13 http://www.mouser.com/Optoelectronics/Displays/LCD-Displays/LCD-Touch-Panels/_/N-6j736/ Mar 01 21:48:53 is what I saw Mar 01 21:49:44 oh wait, i missed the 3" one Mar 01 21:50:16 ah yeah, but they don't include displays, so it'll be a handyman job Mar 01 21:54:18 Hey, I'm done with IE bugs for the day! Yay! Mar 02 01:31:56 looking for an msn messenger app. Turns out there's none Mar 02 01:33:08 you can use a local copy of bitlbee hooked up to wIRC Mar 02 01:33:09 looking for an ice app. Found one ghatsucks Mar 02 01:33:17 irc Mar 02 01:33:22 that can gateway msn<->irc pretty well Mar 02 01:33:40 did you try wIRC? much better Mar 02 01:34:00 (or better than anything else I've tried on a mobile platform - I guess that could be what you tried) Mar 02 01:34:26 alternatively you can use wTerm + irssi + bitlbee, but that might be a bit awkward Mar 02 01:37:11 wirc isn't good Mar 02 01:38:12 andchat puts wirc to shame and free Mar 02 01:38:22 I am dissapoint Mar 02 01:38:32 wirc is free Mar 02 01:38:45 I've used wIRC and andchat extensively and wIRC was much, much better in my opinion Mar 02 01:38:49 not in the catslog Mar 02 01:39:09 but it's a very native-feeling webOS app and if you're trying to treat it like an android one, you're going to have trouble Mar 02 01:39:22 much like getting a linux command prompt and thinking DOS... :) Mar 02 01:39:35 how is wirc better the it does not even support the tp Mar 02 01:39:43 well, you shoulda gotten it out of preware then! (or built your own) Mar 02 01:39:54 oh, definitely - dwc is right, the Preware version is free and updated faster Mar 02 01:39:58 oh! Mar 02 01:40:00 I see Mar 02 01:40:16 the Preware version is great on the Touchpad Mar 02 01:40:28 it's what I use there, I never thought to try the catalog one. Mar 02 01:40:49 no wonder you thought it sucked :) Mar 02 01:41:05 word doesn't scroll up into. Does not support freenode login either Mar 02 01:41:15 jakko1: you should definitely make make sure you know what's going on before complaining Mar 02 01:41:22 did you try the Preware version yet? Mar 02 01:41:32 I've been on freenode tons of times with wIRC. Mar 02 01:41:33 of course. Mar 02 01:41:33 if /that/ has the same problems, then ask again Mar 02 01:41:39 how weird Mar 02 01:41:47 you do know you can add a new network, right? Mar 02 01:41:58 successful troll is successful. Mar 02 01:42:15 there are a couple of other apps like that - free version in Preware (often more features), pay version in Catalog Mar 02 01:42:21 so is successful burrito Mar 02 01:42:49 words to live by Mar 02 01:43:12 eh, I try not to mistake incompetence for malice... on the other hand failure to RTFM, google, or even try stuff could be considered "malicious incompetence" due to being a conscious attempt to dump the work on other people. Mar 02 01:43:18 (not speaking about you, jakko1) Mar 02 01:43:44 no sasl support and I have to constantly scroll up Mar 02 01:44:11 .......... Mar 02 01:45:03 last update Aug 2011. I guess developer jumped ship Mar 02 01:45:20 You know the best part about it being open source? You, yes you! can submit a patch for it! Mar 02 01:46:19 I dual boot Mar 02 01:47:03 decided to boot webOS for a change Mar 02 01:53:46 no, he's right, wirc doesn't support SASL Mar 02 01:53:56 which you need depending on what ISP you're on Mar 02 01:54:21 the scroller bug iirc is a webos bug, not a wirc bug Mar 02 01:55:12 I have little desire to freenode from my phone on cellular data so that's not usually a problem for me Mar 02 01:56:16 * dwc- departs to go chill with a bunch of webos nuts Mar 02 01:56:25 have fun Mar 02 01:56:53 (hopefully not a bunch of newly fired ones) Mar 02 01:57:54 yeah Mar 02 01:58:01 could end up being a downer Mar 02 02:01:57 definitely one of my favorite tweets of all time: https://twitter.com/#!/badbanana/status/173499031169937409 Mar 02 02:01:58 I suspect by next year webOS team would be reduced to 0 Mar 02 02:02:34 cool Mar 02 02:02:56 since HP will be on win 8 bandwagon Mar 02 02:04:41 night everyone Mar 02 02:05:23 Tibfib_, night Mar 02 02:06:13 weird, I have no problems connecting to zelazny.greenies... Mar 02 02:06:22 well, except for auto-correct Mar 02 02:06:31 hah Mar 02 02:06:38 okay, you were right, jakko1 is a troll Mar 02 02:06:56 HP has zero reason to go for win 8 Mar 02 02:07:00 what?! No wai Mar 02 02:07:35 c'mon, the confident predictions of doom and suggesting stuff that just doesn't make sense as the scenario for a year out? Mar 02 02:07:55 while complaining about how much webos apps suck without actually trying to find a fix for his problems? Mar 02 02:12:52 HP already confirmed win 8 tablet. What do you mean they have no interest Mar 02 02:14:05 would be nice if they gave us a way to get win 8 months touchpad Mar 02 02:14:21 stupid auto correct Mar 02 02:17:03 I mean they have no interest in abandoning webOS as a long-term strategy (which is what Whitman has been very clear about) Mar 02 02:17:26 because they know what happens to them if they let Microsoft become sole supplier and arbiter of their fate Mar 02 02:17:48 they become another Nokia, without the huge investment and financial incentives. Mar 02 02:18:22 win 8 is a good move for selling tablets now, it's not a good move for being anything but a razor-thin margin OEM in 3-4 years. Mar 02 02:19:46 so... that's why I think that claiming they're going to lay everyone off within a year and abandon the platform to bet their future on win 8 is... naive and remarkably underestimates their long term concerns. if they still had Leo the Crackpot in charge you'd be 100% right, though. Mar 02 02:21:15 well I don't think webOS has an ounce of a chance Mar 02 02:22:12 it will just be another meego. Why would they continue throwing money at it Mar 02 02:23:20 because the software development costs are really tiny compared to the hardware development and marketing costs, so keeping it running as a fallback and a negotiating tool makes sense Mar 02 02:23:37 and if even one or two OEMs adopt it for some of their phones, that improves Mar 02 02:23:58 so assuming that they're going to kill it off within the year seems defeatist. Mar 02 02:24:27 and the chance of that happening is next to 0 Mar 02 02:26:04 if I told you the tp would flop and HP would abandon it you would say that's crazy . I actually predicted that would happen and I was one that bought s palm pre on day one Mar 02 02:26:15 *shrug* it's cheaper than meego or any of the other projects their throwing money at - heck, it's probably cheaper than deploying a Boot2Gecko phone and trying to bootstrap apps Mar 02 02:26:41 actually I wasn't surprised by the flop - saddened, but not surprised - and I also bought my pre on day one Mar 02 02:27:05 Palm's execution was poor and Apotheker & company were clearly on heavy drugs Mar 02 02:27:31 the main problem is the software if you ask me Mar 02 02:28:02 plus just about everyone was failing miserably to compete with Apple when it first came out. if you've been around tech industries for more than a few years you probably should have expected it Mar 02 02:28:19 in fact when I ordered my touchpad I told my girlfriend that I had a lot of sympathy for Newton owners Mar 02 02:28:22 ah Mar 02 02:28:33 to think that everyone that buys a to would install pressure and search around for patches is crazy Mar 02 02:28:46 you have to understand - some of us are happy with the base apps, hackability, and linux app selection Mar 02 02:28:52 your point? Mar 02 02:30:24 oh, I see - HP's complete failure to execute means that they're going to back out now that they've settled in for a long recovery. if Whitman gets fired, then you may be right, but right now it just doesn't make sense and much as I detest her she's smarter than Apotheker was Mar 02 02:31:08 hope I can run win8 on it. Android is a nice replacement that I wasn't expecting but win 8 would be better Mar 02 02:32:26 ... Mar 02 02:32:34 have fun with that? Mar 02 02:32:50 Apot was dumb to think that the tp was worth the price Mar 02 02:33:02 Normally I would say don't feed the troll, but its nice to have this place active Mar 02 02:33:18 nom nom nom :-P Mar 02 02:33:39 because the chance of anyone who's got a license releasing a port for a discontinued machine is near zero and unlike the AOS code, the open source community doesn't have access to build a port Mar 02 02:34:07 wrea: meh, I probably should drop it, but I'm eating breakfast and enjoying my morning coffee so it seems vaguely amusing :) Mar 02 02:34:08 and HP was dumb in thinking palm was worth over a billion Mar 02 02:34:19 if it gets annoying to the rest of y'all, tell me? Mar 02 02:34:28 jakko1: okay that? that I agree completely with Mar 02 02:34:43 _except_ for the potential value of the patents and they don't seem to be doing much with them Mar 02 02:34:44 nieve, I don't mind too much, it is indeed amusing Mar 02 02:34:59 I could see palm having been worth over a billion to google as a defensive move? Mar 02 02:35:29 mmm, biscuits stuffed with extra sharp cheddar and gyro meat Mar 02 02:35:53 and a good dark roast from a french press - I am a happy happy girl Mar 02 02:36:24 seriously, what the hell was up with google not taking a run at buying palm? did they think they weren't ever going to get sued? Mar 02 02:37:42 nieve: if Balmer's right, Google doesn't seem to care Mar 02 02:40:20 which is entirely possible now that they seem to have decided that they've got the OEMs hooked? Mar 02 02:40:42 it seems short-sighted to me and more than a little evil, but both are qualities of the New Google Mar 02 02:41:12 on the other hand there's an old rule that says "Never trust Balmer on anything that has to do with a competitor's technology or plans" Mar 02 02:41:25 also "Never imitate a monkey on-stage" Mar 02 02:41:45 developers developers developers Mar 02 02:41:51 he at least got that bit right :) Mar 02 02:42:09 regardless, webos (once finally open sourced) may have a thriving future as an alternative Mar 02 02:42:23 but being *just* the alternative is never enough Mar 02 02:42:31 there's got to be a bigger vision for the OS Mar 02 02:42:37 …which is why I troll here ;) Mar 02 02:42:39 waiting to hear it Mar 02 02:42:43 or see it Mar 02 02:42:44 or something Mar 02 02:44:25 by jakko1 Mar 02 02:44:27 *bye Mar 02 02:47:36 well, that was fun to watch Mar 02 02:48:24 oh, I agree that being just the alternative isn't enough, but platforms come and go and I won't bet on anything Mar 02 02:48:56 I mean, who the hell would have thought that all the most successful phone OSes would be unix descendants, no matter how distant Mar 02 02:49:36 and that Apple would be the huge market value heavy-weight in smartphones and tablets, plus dominate the cheap & light laptop market? Mar 02 02:49:51 this stuff is a hilarious crapshoot :) Mar 02 02:52:25 speaking of which, I need to go back to reading the API docs & trying to figure out the best way to sync with Dropbox **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 02 02:59:58 2012