**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 24 02:59:58 2012
Apr 24 03:16:18 <bnceo> what is left to be released on the roadmap?
Apr 24 03:16:20 <bnceo> I think Ares 2?
Apr 24 03:26:06 <PatrickC> ares 2 this month
Apr 24 03:31:11 <destinal> awesome
Apr 24 03:36:31 <bnceo> PatrickC: then it's a dry spell until July
Apr 24 03:36:39 <bnceo> and August is the big month. open webos
Apr 24 03:40:41 * cwayne cant wait for open.webos
Apr 24 03:49:21 <destinal> bnceo: wasn't july a beta or was august?
Apr 24 04:32:43 <PatrickC> cwayne, you and me both
Apr 24 04:36:37 <PatrickC> does GA (google analytics) work for webOS?
Apr 24 04:37:40 <cwayne> PatrickC: no
Apr 24 04:37:48 <cwayne> at least it didnt about a year ago when i tried it
Apr 24 04:38:44 <PatrickC> aww man.. with Metrix going by the wayside.., i dont want to have to depend on hosting it myself :/
Apr 24 04:41:13 <halfhalo> hosting is cheap
Apr 24 04:45:10 <PatrickC> i have hosting
Apr 24 04:45:15 <PatrickC> i just dont want to have to host it
Apr 24 05:18:15 <cwayne> LAZY
Apr 24 05:20:07 <JunJi> :0
Apr 24 05:22:28 <JunJi> oops, the webos emulator is originally for windows? I'm following the official manual to setup it but it says '(On x64 Linux, the native desktop toolchain will generate x64 code, which will not work in the emulator.)'
Apr 24 05:22:51 <JunJi> exactly I have 64bit ubuntu :(
Apr 24 05:23:31 <JunJi> I prefer linux than windows when I develop
Apr 24 06:26:45 <destinal> JunJi: there's SDK's for OSX and Linux
Apr 24 06:26:59 <destinal> JunJi: and you can make GCC output 32-bit code
Apr 24 06:27:46 <destinal> export CFLAGS=-m32
Apr 24 06:29:15 <JunJi> destinal: so the manual is dated?
Apr 24 06:32:44 <destinal> JunJi: or Palm just didn't support the option
Apr 24 06:32:56 <destinal> dunno
Apr 24 06:35:50 <JunJi> which one is more preferred for webos dev?
Apr 24 06:36:37 <JunJi> linux? windows? in cases of android and meego, i worked on linux and it was more convenience than windows to me
Apr 24 06:44:50 <destinal> JunJi: most of the webos-internals folks use Linux
Apr 24 06:45:17 <JunJi> destinal: nice, that's what i hoped. thanks
Apr 24 06:46:13 <JunJi> just wondered cause the manual feels like it's windows first
Apr 24 06:46:13 <JunJi> hehe
Apr 24 06:50:54 <destinal> JunJi: indeed the linux PDK (native sdk with cross compile toolchain)  was one of the last ones out, Windows and Mac were the only ones for a while and we at webos-internals had to basically make our own toolchain for that reason
Apr 24 06:53:43 <JunJi> destinal: exactly, it doesn't make sense if an OS derived from linux supports windows dev environment more than linux where it's from
Apr 24 06:56:33 <JunJi> my network has a trouble, will be back
Apr 24 07:16:06 <EricBlade> good evening everyone
Apr 24 07:23:40 <JunJi> morning
Apr 24 07:24:40 <ka6sox> night :D
Apr 24 07:24:48 <ka6sox> ~ugt
Apr 24 07:24:54 <ka6sox> no bot...
Apr 24 07:24:55 <JunJi> actually i'm still evening and left about 2hrs to go home
Apr 24 07:24:59 <ka6sox> AWOL bot.
Apr 24 07:25:29 <ka6sox> its late here...and I have to get up too early
Apr 24 07:25:37 <JunJi> lol
Apr 24 07:25:57 <JunJi> no sleep tonight?
Apr 24 07:26:08 <ka6sox> wish the company I had to with tommorrow wasn't 4 TZs away
Apr 24 07:26:29 <ka6sox> to work with that is.
Apr 24 07:27:13 <JunJi> what's the 4TZs?
Apr 24 07:27:31 <ka6sox> I'm pacific and they are atlantic
Apr 24 07:27:40 <JunJi> ha
Apr 24 07:28:40 <ka6sox> I really don't want to upgrade this firmware tommorrow as I've heard horror stories.
Apr 24 07:29:35 <JunJi> firmware? what kind of device is that?
Apr 24 07:29:40 <ka6sox> oh well..enough playing for 1 night...tommorrow there will be more dragons.
Apr 24 07:29:51 <ka6sox> 5kW FMHD transmitter
Apr 24 07:30:41 <JunJi> sounds.. not familiar to me :p
Apr 24 07:30:57 <JunJi> how is that related with webos?
Apr 24 07:31:13 <ka6sox> that isn't..what I've been doing tonight is :D
Apr 24 07:31:35 <JunJi> you're a multi-player
Apr 24 07:31:45 <ka6sox> thats my RL job :(
Apr 24 07:31:59 <JunJi> nice
Apr 24 07:32:41 <ka6sox> essentially its the same processor as the Arduino, but I don't want to have to poke in a whole bunch of values on the keypad.
Apr 24 07:33:09 <ka6sox> in case the firmware upgrade botches the data structure :(
Apr 24 07:33:43 <ka6sox> tonight it was setting up Build Machines in preparation for OpenWebOS.
Apr 24 07:35:37 <ka6sox> seeing if 12.04 has "issues" with building.
Apr 24 07:46:03 <EricBlade> ka6sox: build machines in preparation for open webos?
Apr 24 07:46:25 <ka6sox> of course :D
Apr 24 07:46:42 <EricBlade> i guess you mean just setting up some ubuntus ?
Apr 24 07:46:51 <ka6sox> of course.
Apr 24 07:47:04 <ka6sox> 12.04 32 and 64bit
Apr 24 07:47:13 <ka6sox> VMs
Apr 24 08:02:55 <JunJi> i'm still really at a baby step
Apr 24 08:03:32 <JunJi> while I'm trying the pdk tutorial, my co-worker set up OE and he is saying he is compiling a helloworld example
Apr 24 08:04:35 <JunJi> i'm confusing because i was heard that i don't need OE to compile an app
Apr 24 08:05:15 <JunJi> so i thought what i need is just a default cross compiler but my co-worker is winning this competition ;p
Apr 24 08:05:32 <JunJi> yikes!
Apr 24 08:07:17 <JunJi> i wanna win this race but it left only an hour to go home ha
Apr 24 08:10:13 <JunJi> does bitbake use scratchbox2?
Apr 24 09:05:18 <destinal> JunJi: did you check out WIDK?  It uses scratchbox2
Apr 24 09:11:55 <EricBlade> not to bring up competition, buuuuuuuut... I have an opportunity to obtain a Dell 7" tablet with WiFi and 4G and Android 3, and there's a ICS rom out for it apparently .. for $150.  is that not an insane deal?
Apr 24 09:15:28 <EricBlade> the only thing i can see really not good about this is that it's a 7" tablet that has the same screen res as my Pre3
Apr 24 09:19:28 <destinal> EricBlade: seems decent, just port webos to it once open webos is released :)
Apr 24 09:31:20 <EricBlade> the battery life on it sucks, the screen is pretty crappy.. i'd never use it for anything.. and my android sales are practically nil anyway, so not sure why i'd want to spend more on a tablet as a dev device, when so far, that'd consume the entirety of my 3 months of sales on the platform
Apr 24 09:32:35 <EricBlade> but.. it's 4G .. sigh.
Apr 24 10:01:09 <moofree> dell streak 7's are kinda meh
Apr 24 10:02:06 <moofree> i got a refurb kindle fire for 140, much better screen (though less featureful)
Apr 24 15:08:58 <PatrickC> http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/803120/SG
Apr 24 17:32:30 <moshe5368> good morning
Apr 24 17:34:30 <moshe5368> has anyone experienced issues with the camera app under 3.0.5?
Apr 24 17:35:03 <EricBlade> some have yes
Apr 24 17:35:26 <moshe5368> is there a workaround that you are aware of?
Apr 24 17:36:14 <moshe5368> I am not adverse to downgrading to 3.0.4 if necessary
Apr 24 17:36:35 <EricBlade> it hasn't worked on my touchpad since 3.0.2, works fine for my gf's though
Apr 24 17:37:12 <EricBlade> i had at one point installed a preware kernel that was not built correctly for the camera, which caused the same symptoms, and I wonder if maybe some part of that stuck around
Apr 24 17:37:13 <moshe5368> it works fine on the wifes 16gb touchpad with 3.0.5 but mine is hit or miss on the 32gb tab
Apr 24 17:37:29 <moshe5368> I am running uberkernel
Apr 24 17:37:39 <EricBlade> me too
Apr 24 17:37:42 <EricBlade> my gf's is completely stock
Apr 24 17:38:04 <EricBlade> back in a few, i have to reboot.
Apr 24 17:38:18 <EricBlade> the camera on the touchpad is pretty poor, though, so i just don't care. :)
Apr 24 17:38:31 <EricBlade> well, i do, just not very much
Apr 24 17:38:34 <moshe5368> I could try returning to the stock kernel but only use the camera for skype
Apr 24 17:38:53 <EricBlade> it worked for me the last time i tried skype video, but it wouldn't work in the camera app
Apr 24 17:38:54 <EricBlade> brb
Apr 24 17:38:58 <moshe5368> ok
Apr 24 17:42:11 <iMarck90> Hi, anyone have news about Ares 2.0 and Enyo 2.1? Thanks
Apr 24 17:45:49 <felix34> I stopped usign the camera a logn time ago. useless
Apr 24 17:46:09 <moshe5368> I just need it for skype calls
Apr 24 17:46:25 <felix34> the quality is so bad
Apr 24 17:46:58 <moshe5368> true enough but its all the hardware we have for the touchpad so, better than nothing
Apr 24 17:52:50 <felix34> I see webosnation is thinking about raising funds to make a device.
Apr 24 17:53:06 <moshe5368> I read that. could be nice
Apr 24 17:53:33 <moshe5368> that is, if webosnation does not fold as well
Apr 24 17:53:43 <felix34> it is impossible
Apr 24 17:54:02 <moshe5368> one could only hope
Apr 24 17:54:08 <felix34> Derek will probably write for imore.
Apr 24 17:55:11 <moshe5368> it seems that many folks have lost faith I. webos and have migrated to other platforms.
Apr 24 17:55:14 <felix34> everythignpre has been dead for years but they are still up
Apr 24 17:55:29 <felix34> did the same
Apr 24 17:56:12 <moshe5368> I hope support for webos continues as I have several palm and webos devices
Apr 24 17:58:11 <moshe5368> I still use a palm TX daily
Apr 24 18:11:15 <felix34> you are crazy
Apr 25 00:08:14 <Domingo23> Why the hell is webos so leggy. Makes typing a pain
Apr 25 00:08:57 <ka6sox> thank you for sharing.
Apr 25 00:09:47 <Domingo23> So why is it so lag guy
Apr 25 00:09:58 <Domingo23> Leggy
Apr 25 00:11:22 <Domingo23> I guess no one knows
Apr 25 00:12:02 <ka6sox> your question is one with no basis with which to answer...you haven't told us HOW its laggy, what you are doing, whatother things are running...etc
Apr 25 00:12:21 <Domingo23> Really funny that Hp thought they could sell them for 500
Apr 25 00:14:10 <Domingo23> Just typing. Everything seems slow. Apps load slow, boot slow, typing has lag, sometimes it freezes a little not responding to touch
Apr 25 00:16:13 <Domingo23> I got it since fire sale but have not use it since August
Apr 25 00:16:54 <EricBlade> my ipad does all the same things, but it has super smooth animations when it's not doing things involving a user
Apr 25 00:17:31 <EricBlade> the ipad appears much faster because it spends a lot more time processing UI updates, imo.
Apr 25 00:17:36 <EricBlade> but it's actually just as slow
Apr 25 00:17:48 <Domingo23> I have an iPad. Never experience anything like the touchpad
Apr 25 00:18:52 <Domingo23> You can see the delay while typing. Makes it hard
Apr 25 00:19:07 <EricBlade> ios does the same thing to me
Apr 25 00:19:11 <EricBlade> so does android
Apr 25 00:19:35 <Domingo23> Never saw that
Apr 25 00:19:36 <EricBlade> only one i haven't noticed significant keyboard lag is on the playbook os, but who cares, because there's nothing useful there
Apr 25 00:19:51 <Domingo23> Do you have 1st gen?
Apr 25 00:20:01 <EricBlade> ipad 2
Apr 25 00:20:16 <EricBlade> the split keyboard in ios kinda kicks ass though
Apr 25 00:20:28 <EricBlade> i hope we can steal that feature for open webos
Apr 25 00:20:56 <EricBlade> is your touchpad up to date, v3.0.5 ?
Apr 25 00:21:52 <EricBlade> oooh i just saw a headline "Mad cow disease found in US cow" .. hopefully they'll finally get my ex- off the streets
Apr 25 00:23:27 <Domingo23> It updated
Apr 25 00:24:19 <EricBlade> i find my touchpad to be quite snappy compared to my others, as long as i don't have more than a couple of IM accounts logged in, and fewer than 5 apps or so
Apr 25 00:24:37 <EricBlade> as soon as i login Skype, my system goes all to hell
Apr 25 00:25:11 <EricBlade> and most all of my IM accounts have > 500 people on the lists
Apr 25 00:25:30 <Domingo23> Strange. I don't have anything on it and it is still slow.
Apr 25 00:26:21 <Domingo23> Maybe I'll sell it
Apr 25 00:27:06 <EricBlade> you have a touchstone with it?
Apr 25 00:27:38 <Domingo23> Nah
Apr 25 00:29:34 <EricBlade> damn. i'm looking for a touchpad/touchstone combo for 200 or less for my parents
Apr 25 00:30:46 <dawm_> anyone have a 3ds and want a free game?
Apr 25 00:31:00 <dawm_> i have a code for http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/DyevOT6MaRBwSrcXbZycvHBc6ZCtGHRZ
Apr 25 00:31:13 <dawm_> and i dont own anything but a nintendo game boy (original)
Apr 25 00:31:49 <Domingo23> Judging from eBay they are selling really low
Apr 25 00:31:56 <destinal> Domingo23: I agree the touchpad can be really slow out of the box.  the patches available in preware speed it u p a lot
Apr 25 00:32:35 <Domingo23> Getting rid of it
Apr 25 00:32:42 <Shadyman> dawm_: Sweeeeet. If I had a 3ds, I'd be all over that.
Apr 25 00:35:13 <EricBlade> i really want a touchstone for them ,though, they are getting up there in years, and have trouble with small plugs
Apr 25 00:38:58 <Domingo23> Why would you get your parents a dead product? Are you cheap or you just don't like them
Apr 25 00:40:03 <cwayne> Domingo23: you seem like a real fun guy.
Apr 25 00:41:01 <Domingo23> Oh well. Speaking the truth
Apr 25 00:43:14 <Domingo23> I would feel bad to give my parents a discontinued product.
Apr 25 00:45:35 <Shadyman> cwayne: Indeed
Apr 25 00:45:37 <destinal> Domingo23: depends on what it's useful for.  They discontinued the Pontiac brand too but giving someone a good condition Pontiac might still be considered a nice gift
Apr 25 00:47:08 <Domingo23> Completely different
Apr 25 00:47:47 <EricBlade> Domingo23: my parents computer is a 166Mhz Pentium, and they still use a TV set that is older than I am.  They also loved using my TouchPad when I visited them last summer
Apr 25 00:47:51 <destinal> my mom and stepdad love their touchpads.  admittedly, they spend a lot of time in android on netflix  :)
Apr 25 00:48:53 <EricBlade> It's the first real electronics gadget that my dad has admitted to liking since I caught him playing with our Atari 2600 back in 1980
Apr 25 00:50:11 <destinal> but also my stepdad finally gave up his palm pre after almost 3 years of regular use only when it started to physically break into pieces.  I think he would have bought a newer webos phone if hp had any for sale, but instead bought a galaxy s2 or something
Apr 25 00:52:15 <EricBlade> my parents abandoned their cell phone about 3 years ago, when the carrier shut down analog service.  I had got them their phone in 1995.
Apr 25 00:52:40 <destinal> wow
Apr 25 00:54:12 <EricBlade> http://www.vendio.com/stores/Dreambro/item/vintage-electronics-telephones/vintage-tandy-brick-cell-phone/lid=22465795
Apr 25 00:54:14 <EricBlade> one of those
Apr 25 01:28:56 <kismeter> Hi guys, anyone knows when the kernel will be released?
Apr 25 02:09:30 <JunJi> how is the synergy related with the cloud service that webos is saying?
Apr 25 02:09:42 <JunJi> I don't see any clue
Apr 25 02:10:57 <JunJi> or any possibility they will be tied?
Apr 25 02:11:18 <EricBlade> kismeter: kernel for what?
Apr 25 02:11:30 <EricBlade> JunJi: um.. what cloud service?
Apr 25 02:13:55 <JunJi> EricBlade: i don't know but what if this term 'cloud service' means just the cloud hp is saying they will provide
Apr 25 02:14:21 <JunJi> JunJi: two of my coworker are arguing about this, I'm gonna finish the fight :p
Apr 25 02:15:51 <JunJi> any advice?
Apr 25 02:27:42 <JunJi> can't believe the number "Less than 10% of developers in the webOS developer community use Linux variants." - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK
Apr 25 02:30:05 <destinal> JunJi: HP has a cloud service in beta that has nothing to do with webos
Apr 25 02:31:21 <JunJi> destinal: so no connection between a cloud service and the 'synergy'
Apr 25 02:32:39 <JunJi> how is 'WebOS Internals PDK' different from 'WIDK (webOS Internals Development Kit)'?? in my guess PDK means Plugin Development Kit, are they same?
Apr 25 02:33:02 <destinal> yeah, synergy has been around for years, along with webos, it's just integration of various different kinds of data / accounts online
Apr 25 02:33:10 <destinal> http://kb.hpwebos.com/wps/portal/kb/common/article/33923_en.html  < -- synergy
Apr 25 02:33:53 <destinal> HP cloud services is a new thing totally unrelated
Apr 25 02:34:55 <destinal> JunJi: the webos internals PDK and WIDK are the same thing.   we renamed it to WIDK to avoid name collisions with HP / palm's PDK
Apr 25 02:35:57 <destinal> Since hp / palm has the PDK (plugin development kit) which enables binary plugins / services and nantive games
Apr 25 02:36:05 <destinal> s/nantive/native/
Apr 25 02:36:05 <JunJi> destinal: thanks, I'm in charge of setting up development env for my office and there are still few things unclear to me
Apr 25 02:36:46 <destinal> webos-internals did our own native development kit called WIDK before Palm came out with the PDK, because we wanted some way to make our own native stuff
Apr 25 02:37:06 <destinal> both WIDK and HP/Palm PDK use cross compilers
Apr 25 02:38:05 <JunJi> do i also need HP/Palm PDK for webos package compiling or general app compiling?
Apr 25 02:38:44 <JunJi> i have to do both for porting it on my device
Apr 25 02:38:44 <EricBlade> ok, so, is anyone else out there actually interested in making synergy stuff for messaging?  because i could probably use some advice as to what sorts of facilities will be needed framework wise for things other than what i'm doing
Apr 25 02:39:32 <EricBlade> the official PDK is good if you need to do anything with native code, and you also need it if you want to have the ability to ssh into a device / emulator
Apr 25 02:40:53 <JunJi> EricBlade: which one if the official, the widk or HP/Palm PDK? sorry I'm bothering you but the wiki makes me confused
Apr 25 02:41:17 <EricBlade> from hp
Apr 25 02:41:34 <destinal> WIDK is UNofficial
Apr 25 02:41:35 <JunJi> cool thanks
Apr 25 02:41:57 <JunJi> oh is it
Apr 25 02:42:33 <destinal> JunJi: yeah Palm PDK is official
Apr 25 02:43:21 <destinal> WIDK is developed by folks in the #webos-internals channel and documented primarily on the corresponding webos-internals wiki
Apr 25 02:43:23 <kismeter> EricBlade:kernel for openwebos
Apr 25 02:43:27 <JunJi> ok, the reason that I'm struggling with the WebOS internals PDK (http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK) is that yesterday someone told me this is for compiling things for webos
Apr 25 02:43:45 <EricBlade> kismeter: Linux 3.3 kernel as far as we're aware
Apr 25 02:43:46 <JunJi> so now can i just forget it and focus on OE?
Apr 25 02:44:06 <JunJi> someone told me I won't use OE for an app
Apr 25 02:44:18 <destinal> JunJi: they both are but have different strengths and weaknesses.  Neither uses OE as such
Apr 25 02:44:19 <JunJi> and he said I need the widk for an app
Apr 25 02:44:34 <destinal> JunJi: what are you trying to do?
Apr 25 02:44:55 <JunJi> it feels like there is no regular guide yet
Apr 25 02:45:10 <EricBlade> there isn't?
Apr 25 02:45:26 <JunJi> what I'm doing is to set up development envirment for webos so we can just start it as soon as we get the source :)
Apr 25 02:45:44 <EricBlade> https://developer.palm.com/content/resources/develop/pdk_overview.html
Apr 25 02:45:55 <destinal> JunJi: ah, so you're not trying to develop applications, you want to enhance the core operating system?
Apr 25 02:46:18 <JunJi> we will do the both
Apr 25 02:46:23 <EricBlade> if we're talking about operating system level work, it seems to be that you'll want a fully loaded Ubuntu system
Apr 25 02:46:38 <JunJi> exactly, we have a server
Apr 25 02:47:32 <EricBlade> for app development, the pdk overview should be enough to get someone started, if they can fill in any gaps in logic that people seem to skip over regularly in the webos documentation :)
Apr 25 02:48:10 <JunJi> EricBlade: thanks man, i will delete http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK in my head
Apr 25 02:48:36 <destinal> JunJi: developer.palm.com has tons of information on how to write applications.  Most applications are primarily Javascript / HTML / CSS, etc  (using either the Enyo or Mojo frameworks), while some applications are hybrids (Javascript front end and binary or node.js backend) and some are totally binary / SDL, usually these are games
Apr 25 02:49:34 <JunJi> I set up a similar build env for meego before, in that case it uses same tools for core develop and app develop but webos sounds like needs different things for each
Apr 25 02:49:39 <destinal> #webos-internals has done some work on porting large amounts of X stuff to work on SDL on webos too but this is not really a mainstream thing
Apr 25 02:49:58 <JunJi> destinal: thanks for the information i will join the channel
Apr 25 02:50:44 <JunJi> lunchtime here! i'll be back :) thanks guys for the help
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 25 02:59:58 2012