**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 05 02:59:57 2012 Jun 05 04:28:17 Hmm apparently my cell isn't a great connection for irc where I'm at now Jun 05 04:29:28 Hmm.. I need to remember to delete a channel from the imgroupchat database when leaving the channel. Jun 05 04:36:32 What is going on tonight.. Jun 05 04:36:55 Very few people seem interested in the portal upgrades today Jun 05 04:49:54 what's up w/ the portal upgrades Jun 05 04:50:34 Multiple version support Jun 05 04:50:48 for webos? Jun 05 04:50:57 no way. Jun 05 04:51:15 YeAh go check the dev blog Jun 05 04:51:18 :( Jun 05 04:51:34 they seem to finally be implementing the things we want… now that webOS is dead Jun 05 04:51:56 kinda ironic, huh ? Jun 05 04:51:59 * fxspec06 OH YEAHH Jun 05 04:52:32 that's nice Jun 05 04:52:38 okay I need to sleep Jun 05 04:52:39 night everyone Jun 05 04:52:43 later Tibfib_ Jun 05 04:53:14 that's AWESOME! multiple version support!! =O Jun 05 04:53:37 i could have used that .... wayyyyyyyyyyyyy back in the day! Jun 05 04:54:01 better late than never Jun 05 04:54:32 Well.. I bet its something that will be real useful when there's more than one device that isn't practically identical to all the others... Jun 05 04:54:38 * eblade-synergy1 wishful thinking Jun 05 04:55:29 well it would probably have been great for say .. having a single app that has an older mojo version and then a newer enyo version Jun 05 04:55:44 i know you can do that now.. but you have to use a fat app Jun 05 04:56:06 and anything with certain api features won't be allowed on lower os versions Jun 05 04:56:12 etc Jun 05 04:56:15 True Jun 05 04:56:35 so, it's a good thing. Jun 05 04:56:53 shouldn't complain too much Jun 05 04:56:56 I don't disagree there at all, but I hope it will be more useful in the future Jun 05 04:57:24 I wonder if all this stuff has been in the works for years Jun 05 04:57:26 me too. *wink wink Jun 05 04:58:06 we're probably seeing the last of what's been in the works. i'd bet anything from here on out, at least until after open webos, will be new Jun 05 04:58:25 Or if enda is kicking ass Jun 05 05:00:11 enda ? Jun 05 05:01:15 The guy in charge at dev rel now Jun 05 05:01:21 This week Jun 05 05:01:26 ah Jun 05 05:05:36 If he goes away I nominate you for the position fx Jun 05 05:07:16 heh :P Jun 05 05:07:56 i'd be honored, except for the fact that i must get my degree first. at least my associates. Jun 05 05:08:12 that way if i ever forget everything i've ever learned, at least i'll have a piece of paper to show for it Jun 05 05:29:28 I have no paper, but I do ok. For now. Jun 05 05:35:11 Brb Jun 05 16:18:46 anyone here experience instant-death of their battery at 50%? Jun 05 16:19:03 its just fine until it hits 50, and it immediately hits 5% battery life remaining Jun 05 16:25:10 that's some strange behavior Jun 05 16:25:17 which device are you talking about Jun 05 16:26:24 hmmm, enyo2 doesn't seem to like if you modify Object.prototype Jun 05 16:27:17 you should be able to do that Jun 05 16:28:53 IT DON"T LIKE IT Jun 05 16:29:05 KISS & MAKE UP ?!? Jun 05 16:29:20 Pre2 Jun 05 16:29:35 https://twitter.com/MDsmartphone/status/210045613277065216 Jun 05 16:29:43 Why in crawfords name are you modifying Object.prototype? Jun 05 16:30:37 it's handy sometimes to attach custom functions Jun 05 16:30:41 ugh Jun 05 16:30:50 extend don't modify Jun 05 16:31:04 as for your battery.. you can get new ones on amazon for $3 =P Jun 05 16:31:23 might need recalibrating Jun 05 16:31:32 how do you recalibrate it? Jun 05 16:31:36 yeah, that too. forgot bout that. dr. battery Jun 05 16:31:54 https://gist.github.com/384583 Jun 05 16:32:33 what does this do Jun 05 16:33:16 lets you watch variables for changes Jun 05 16:33:22 oh god Jun 05 16:33:24 or so I've heard Jun 05 16:33:48 just make your own class Jun 05 16:33:58 what's enyo saying Jun 05 16:34:10 I will if I need to. Jun 05 16:35:29 it runs for in with it Jun 05 16:35:48 something like this Jun 05 16:35:49 https://gist.github.com/2876120 Jun 05 16:37:01 not what I need Jun 05 16:37:19 you just want to be notified when it changes Jun 05 16:37:29 I don't change it. Jun 05 16:37:39 ghastly Jun 05 16:38:26 Bah. The issue is enyo doesn't call .hasOwnProperty when using for in Jun 05 16:38:56 Perhaps there's a reason… but lame. Jun 05 16:39:31 yeah Jun 05 16:39:40 that would explain it Jun 05 16:41:02 oh well, looks like I'll have to approach this differnetly Jun 05 16:41:14 anyway, I don't blame you for wanting an observable object Jun 05 16:41:20 if only webos was built by mozilla Jun 05 16:55:34 acidhax: yeah, it'd b about 10 times slower and the hardware would've been Jun 05 16:55:37 well, not there at all Jun 05 16:55:49 also, instead of cards, we'd have had tabs Jun 05 16:55:53 haha Jun 05 16:56:07 and the back and forward gestures would have been replaced by buttons on the screen Jun 05 16:56:15 oh wait, we screwed that one over ourselves Jun 05 16:56:41 Well, Palm basically got into the browser game. We can see how awesome our CSS3 support ended up. Jun 05 16:56:55 If it were Mozilla, you'd bet your ass it'd be solid. Jun 05 16:57:10 also, we wouldn't need to have a wireless charger, with the resources firefox consumes the 'phone' would be connected to the power grid all the time! Jun 05 16:57:18 lol Jun 05 16:57:58 acidhax: i don't know about that. webkit has done a better job with CSS3 than any others. it didn't /exist/ when webos was released and it hasn't been updated with better compile time options. Jun 05 16:58:04 possibly to reduce power consumption Jun 05 16:58:34 i'm very interested to what boot2gecko will bring though. could be interesting. Jun 05 16:58:40 yeah Jun 05 16:58:43 webinos as well Jun 05 16:58:59 but in all fairness, i'm /very/ happy that it wasn't mozilla which tried to build webos Jun 05 16:59:25 hmm Jun 05 17:02:13 I just wish webos supported multiple nodejs versions. I'm going to see if I can hack that feature in this weekend. Jun 05 17:02:38 I need to find out where it launches the run-js-service command first Jun 05 17:02:58 hopefully get some nvm support in there Jun 05 17:03:16 * madnificent is not a nodejs fan, however the approach could be used for offering various services. which he likes a lot. Jun 05 17:03:59 I fear that I'll break Futures and whatnot, though Jun 05 17:04:15 acidhax: in line with aspect oriented programming, you can let the users set an environment variable (non-exported) after which your script picks the right node version. Jun 05 17:04:57 I was thinking of in one of our .json configs, setting the node.js version Jun 05 17:04:58 acidhax: default to their current version, let your custom command launch a different one. i doubt nodejs uses that much memory per instance. Jun 05 17:05:15 yep Jun 05 17:05:33 anywho im gonna run off to get a cold drink Jun 05 17:06:14 acidhax: try to pull it open a bit. wouldn't it be possible to give you more than just that? perhaps you could give an option which states which services should be started (including versions). if you can register services separately, then you have a system which A) supports future nodejs versions B) supports all sorts of other services (the future will show it's being used) Jun 05 17:07:01 i can imagine that a service wants to use a couchdb database for instance (just to name something) Jun 05 17:54:58 hmm Jun 05 17:55:02 madnificent, very true Jun 05 17:59:36 * madnificent also wonders how this fits in the openwebos thing Jun 05 17:59:52 acidhax: are you working on some released sources of that, or are you 'just' hacking around? Jun 05 18:16:15 just hacking Jun 05 18:16:28 if it works, ill post my findings Jun 05 18:16:51 http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem Jun 05 18:17:05 whats that article about Jun 05 18:17:06 hmm Jun 05 18:20:45 * madnificent is still not sure that webos is dead. hp has hinted at devices with webos. and i see them pulling it off. investment really is /not/ that high once boot2gecko exists. Jun 05 18:21:01 based on boot2gecko it may well just be rebranding and *boom* webos Jun 05 18:21:32 and what's important about that, is that it suddenly becomes very very feasible to run it on printers also, for which they obviously want a better UE Jun 05 18:21:50 s/UE/UI/ though UX would work also Jun 05 18:29:59 How hard could it be to recreate the WebOS interface Jun 05 18:30:16 since B2G will be open source Jun 05 18:30:47 like ACTUAL open source, not google Jun 05 18:31:26 the webos ui itself isn't actually written in html/js just the applications Jun 05 18:31:45 do you mean just the user-experience interface, or the programming interface? Jun 05 18:31:59 wait wait wait, the webos ui is most definitely html Jun 05 18:32:07 Not since 1.4 Jun 05 18:32:15 Qt? Jun 05 18:32:22 Yup Jun 05 18:32:24 hm Jun 05 18:32:35 It renders webkit in each card, then? Jun 05 18:32:54 I'd suppose so. I don't know the internal workings of it, just that it's qt :) Jun 05 18:33:28 hm Jun 05 18:33:33 interesting Jun 05 18:38:14 summatusmentis: That makes me sad Jun 05 18:38:55 I'm hoping for openwebos Jun 05 18:39:59 I'm trying to recalibrate my battery, its at 7% and still at 3.6v, it needs to be at 3.413V lol Jun 05 18:40:37 and 6%. Jun 05 18:40:48 MOMMA, I AINT GONNA MAKE IT Jun 05 18:51:32 acidhax: openwebos will not help in that, i think. the linux kernel doesn't help there either. your battery electronics matter. Jun 05 18:52:18 nono i know Jun 05 18:52:23 my battery is crappy Jun 05 18:52:39 I was stating two different things Jun 05 19:00:03 I just want openwebos to come out so I can load it on some good hardware Jun 05 19:00:19 mr.enyo hater Jun 05 19:05:32 acidhax, do you expect it to be like ready to load on something when it comes out? Jun 05 19:06:14 nope Jun 05 19:06:35 That's just dumb. Jun 05 19:07:45 ok...some people are under the false impression that it'll be "magic" and just work. Jun 05 19:07:45 I'm excited to hack on it. Jun 05 19:08:02 are you hacking on it now? Jun 05 19:08:06 yep Jun 05 19:12:24 this weekend I'm attempting at installing NVM and getting an app config setting to select which nodejs version to use Jun 05 19:50:09 http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/5/3062611/palm-webos-hp-inside-story-pre-postmortem Jun 05 19:55:19 * ctladvance Watching the original CES 2009 video on the verge, wishing this hasn't failed (for now) Jun 05 19:57:16 wow, that's a hell of an article... how am i ever going to read all of that Jun 05 19:57:24 I don't know Jun 05 19:57:43 Remember seeng that CES video i was like MUST HAVE Jun 05 19:57:55 "they are moving into a IBM-like route. Serving business instead of people" Jun 05 19:58:02 I need a new webos device, this brings back memories Jun 05 19:59:02 This has an interesting bit on the development before 2009 Jun 05 19:59:25 * bigbluehat ponders charing the Life Drive under his desk Jun 05 19:59:39 A 2009 Bloomberg report revealed that Jobs approached Ed Colligan in August of 2007 — the month that the first Apple employees left for Palm, we've learned — and asked for a mutual no-poach agreement, hoping to nip a potential hemorrhaging of the iPhone team in the bud. Jun 05 20:11:32 so basically webos ha/d/s the most potential to tackle the iphone Jun 05 20:17:20 If they could have waited until 2010 to launch, I think we would have seen a different picture for webos today Jun 05 20:18:47 i just wonder why HP bought palm in the first place. Jun 05 20:18:56 it would have made far more sense for them to simply invest Jun 05 20:25:03 Mark Hurd had a vision I think Jun 05 20:25:27 But he was ousted and then we got Leo the leper Jun 05 20:27:19 ='[ Jun 05 20:34:26 man.. pre 3... touchpad go.... days away from being mass produced Jun 05 20:34:40 :( Jun 05 20:35:05 If Hurd would have kept his zipper closed, things might have turned out different for WebOS Jun 05 20:35:20 Leo is/was a complete failure on so many levels Jun 05 20:35:31 everyone in HP (myself included) thought he sucked Jun 05 20:36:16 everyone outside of HP thought he sucked too hemna :) Jun 05 20:36:49 i mean, really. what he did basically cut a whole acquisition + ~1000s of worker's ~6mos - 1yr's work & throw it away Jun 05 20:37:01 yah Jun 05 20:37:27 can you imagine a company that had a business model like that? Jun 05 20:37:43 HP is great at killing products Jun 05 20:37:52 usually takes about 2 or 3 years Jun 05 20:38:00 but HP nuked Palm in less than 2! Jun 05 20:38:24 "hey, i've got an idea for a startup company. let's buy out this team of software gurus and have them work on this cool thing for a while. then just before product launch, we'll kill the product, sell off the extras and watch what happens! buahahahaha!" Jun 05 20:39:01 That's how executives get their bonuses Jun 05 20:39:19 they buy a company, wire in special bonuses for themselves as part of the deal Jun 05 20:39:25 and then let it die afterwards Jun 05 20:39:39 by the time the company dies out internally, the original executives are long gone Jun 05 20:39:43 thank you drive through. Jun 05 20:40:06 what he did should be a crime Jun 05 20:40:37 it is a crime Jun 05 20:41:04 but it's not illegal to be stupid i guess Jun 05 20:41:10 nope Jun 05 20:41:17 not sure why shareholders put up with it though Jun 05 20:41:28 the cycle continues Jun 05 20:41:33 The SAP rap sheet that Leo had should have disqualified him Jun 05 20:41:48 and the board and shareholders continue to allow golden parachutes to be part of executives contracts Jun 05 20:41:50 morons Jun 05 20:42:04 Shareholders didn't, that's why they dumped the stock Jun 05 20:42:05 the shareholders wanted to hold on to their money Jun 05 20:42:49 i wonder which of them were involved w/ 'the decision' Jun 05 20:43:23 See the issue wasn't ho buying webos initially, it was them putting an enterprise only software guy in.... Jun 05 20:43:28 HP Jun 05 20:43:53 Anyways Jun 05 20:44:21 Have we had anyone successful in getting webos on newer hardware yet Jun 05 20:44:52 if there's someone out there, and i'm sure there is, i don't think we'd hear about it Jun 05 20:45:26 Why, I mean in the community Jun 05 20:45:31 Not another company Jun 05 20:45:37 I figure that's out Jun 05 20:45:41 oh. i'm not sure then Jun 05 20:45:47 haven't heard anything Jun 05 20:46:13 * fxspec06 needs food Jun 05 20:46:17 bbl Jun 05 20:47:14 so my battery is at 50% capacity Jun 05 20:47:15 lol Jun 05 20:47:24 it jumped from 49% charged to 100% Jun 05 21:56:38 so, we all read the article, eh? Jun 05 21:59:17 i did Jun 05 21:59:28 I added it to Pocket. Jun 05 21:59:32 i like everything but the last part Jun 05 22:00:03 love how the verge etc isnist on perpetuating "THE END" and "RIP" ....... as if open webos is not to exist Jun 05 22:00:20 that doesn't signify the end to me, just a new chapter Jun 05 22:00:39 it's going to have to catch a lucky break to gain any traction Jun 05 22:00:44 you wouldn't rip the last 300 pages of a book out if you didn't like the way the first 500 started Jun 05 22:01:04 and get out of HP corporate control Jun 05 22:01:08 you wouldn't throw away the last 27 books of an encyclopedia because you only felt like reading the first three Jun 05 22:01:24 first analogy was better Jun 05 22:01:26 haha Jun 05 22:01:27 eyah, but it's not the end Jun 05 22:01:29 lol Jun 05 22:01:53 No, not the end… but a knife in the back Jun 05 22:02:03 well ya Jun 05 22:02:24 but the writers there get on my nerves sometimes Jun 05 22:02:46 it was a great article, up to the last section. stick to facts Jun 05 22:03:38 fact is it's clearly _not_ the end.. so putting "the end" in the title def shows negative bias which perpetuates fanboyism Jun 05 22:03:44 ( but we don't say that word ) Jun 05 22:05:55 for webOS to be up there again, it needs to change to something that is kept away from corporate Jun 05 22:06:13 sort of how Jobs went skullworks with Macintosh while corporate Apple worked on the Lisa Jun 05 22:07:01 Jobs won by creating his own market Jun 05 22:07:16 he want the macintosh vs lisa battle that way. ya Jun 05 22:07:18 webOS isn't going to win by trying to stick its nose in that market Jun 05 22:07:32 if it wants to get somewhere, it's got to make its' own market Jun 05 22:07:38 but you get my point. keep it away from corporate suits, lock the passionate engineers and software people and let them have free reign Jun 05 22:07:39 * i believe Jun 05 22:08:04 yes. of course. software engeneers and software ppl >>>> let them do their thing Jun 05 22:08:08 let the lead guy hire whoever they want. build chemistry and get to work on things they love Jun 05 22:08:17 they're the most important ppl . far and above Jun 05 22:09:28 when I read the Steve Jobs book recently, my opinion of the devices around me changed Jun 05 22:09:59 how so Jun 05 22:10:25 I started to realize for example, how ugly a POS the PS3 is. love the power it has and features. But to look at it, just ugly Jun 05 22:10:42 the wii, actually matches my living room. modern. simple rectangle Jun 05 22:11:02 yeah, ps3 not too great design Jun 05 22:11:14 and then I started to see how things don't work together as they should. like my GS2 Skyrocket and my 2 samsung TVs. I need an app to do the most mundane things Jun 05 22:11:43 yet, on apple it's all streamlined and brainless Jun 05 22:11:52 at least with the TouchPad and Pre3, I can answer a call or text from the TouchPad. To me, that was an awesome feature. finally, devices that work together Jun 05 22:12:34 exactly. and a lot of that comes from the culture built from way back when. in HP, there is none. It's lost. No labs, no passionate people in charge. Just suits, MBAs, and stick figures Jun 05 22:13:01 i have so many devices.. a tv, xbox, pc, phones, tablets..... and what can they do with each other? well my xbox works w/ my pc.. if i jump through hoops and pray i have the right codecs Jun 05 22:13:24 I started looking at my DVR and I'm like, seriously? Did nobody figure this out yet? Jun 05 22:13:28 i can connect my phones etc to pc but... i can only sync stuff. if i'm lucky Jun 05 22:13:48 the DVRs the companies give us are bullcrap. underpowered, ugly menus, monthly fees, etc Jun 05 22:14:04 http://keckobservatory.org/news/venus_transit_live_keck_observatory Jun 05 22:14:05 started Jun 05 22:14:19 TIVO is nice, but why bother if I gotta pay a cable card and a tivo fee each month Jun 05 22:14:30 on apple, if you have a mac, iphone, and @ tv you can pretty much share everything on all of them w/o doing ANYTHING else Jun 05 22:14:38 buy, plug in, boom everything shared Jun 05 22:15:16 just works. And you know why. Cause all those people make it a top priority to make it so. they talk. they share. you think samsung mobile talkes to the TV people? Jun 05 22:15:19 DVR's... awful. Jun 05 22:15:25 never owned a dvr Jun 05 22:15:27 never will Jun 05 22:15:39 Samsung and Sony are two companies that have it all and don't know what to do with it. It's quite sad and pathetic Jun 05 22:15:45 directv's dvrs are pretty decent, suprisingly Jun 05 22:15:46 fxspec06: btw ps3 ;) Jun 05 22:16:19 I mean, I'm all for free enterprise, but when a company is public, shareholders rule and they don't know what's good for them. All they care about is buying on monday and selling on Friday Jun 05 22:16:26 yeah. and all the consumers etc/ re: haters > complain b/c apple "locks everyone in to their ecosystem," but they don't. they provide a better ecosystem Jun 05 22:16:42 it's easy to serve files to the ps3 via upnp/ps3 media server Jun 05 22:16:45 the rest of the market doesn't adopt Jun 05 22:16:51 i.e. movies. Jun 05 22:16:53 s/adopt/adapt Jun 05 22:16:57 to hate on apple is so blah. Uneducated do that. Look at the big picture and you see they do good things Jun 05 22:17:15 easy dan? you think it's easy? how easy is it compared to plugging something in? Jun 05 22:17:18 i used to work for apple Jun 05 22:17:21 dan408: if I buy a sony laptop. why would I have to DL some software to get my PS3 to sync? Jun 05 22:17:27 shouldn't it work out of the box? Jun 05 22:17:28 these people already have movies etc on their itunes Jun 05 22:17:32 I worked at Apple for 5 years Jun 05 22:17:40 fxspec06: uh as easy as installing ps3 media server pointing it to a dir and that's about it Jun 05 22:17:44 they plug @ tv in and it's there. content appears Jun 05 22:17:45 hemna: cupertino? Jun 05 22:17:48 I'm no longer an Apple customer Jun 05 22:17:51 yah Jun 05 22:17:55 that's extra steps Jun 05 22:17:56 i was at vp02c Jun 05 22:17:58 what about you? Jun 05 22:18:27 it doesn't matter how many extra steps, nothing's easier than plugging something in that finds an already existing media server, connects to it, and shows your content... fresh out of the box Jun 05 22:18:35 you know what annoyed me too? google TV? Good idea, horrible HORRIBLE execution. totally gimped the idea Jun 05 22:18:39 fxspec06: yeah a ps3 does that.. Jun 05 22:19:06 you're missing the point. most people wouldn't know how to set up a ps3 media server. Jun 05 22:19:09 also my roku is starting to collect dust but I loved using the secret channel that played youtube on it for music Jun 05 22:19:19 It's pathetic that the PS3 is still not on gigabit. And it never will. Should have been 3 years ago Jun 05 22:19:20 * hemna is a minidlna user :P Jun 05 22:19:21 fxspec06: most people don't know how to use google. not my problem. Jun 05 22:19:33 that's where you're wrong. it is your problem Jun 05 22:19:54 as a HW/SW company, minimizing the steps for a customer is THE problem Jun 05 22:20:02 ^ Jun 05 22:20:08 bnceo: ps3 has gigabit.. what are you smoking? Jun 05 22:20:14 I mean Jun 05 22:20:16 sorry. wireless N Jun 05 22:20:17 my bad Jun 05 22:20:22 The system has Bluetooth 2.0 (with support for up to 7 bluetooth devices[52]), gigabit Ethernet, USB 2.0 and HDMI 1.4[cn 1] built in on all currently shipping models. Wi-Fi networking is also built-in on all but the 20 GB models, while a flash card reader (compatible with Memory Stick, SD/MMC and CompactFlash/Microdrive media) is built-in on 60 GB and CECHExx 80 GB models.[42][51] Jun 05 22:20:34 windows doesn't exactly make it easy to set this stuff up, either Jun 05 22:20:35 I meant wireless N. Jun 05 22:20:45 apple on the other hand is absolutely brainless Jun 05 22:20:51 doesn't need N unless you're downloading. Jun 05 22:20:53 anyways, the PS3 media server is good for us geeks/nerds/enthusiats. Jun 05 22:21:03 it needs N to stream my bluray rips! Jun 05 22:21:04 lol Jun 05 22:21:16 rofl Jun 05 22:21:23 then use gigabit :P Jun 05 22:21:45 can't. too far from router. router is upstairs. PS3 downstairs. And don't feel like buying a bridge Jun 05 22:21:57 my ps3 is right next to my router :) Jun 05 22:21:58 or access point. w/e you call it Jun 05 22:22:01 also punchdown. Jun 05 22:22:33 our whole house is wired for gigabit and we have 2 802.11n routers Jun 05 22:22:39 anyways, fxspec06 gets what I'm getting to. Seeing the article, being in advertising, and loving HW/SW that works nicely, I'm just angry Jun 05 22:22:50 who the hell approved that commercial?!?!?!?!??! Jun 05 22:23:08 what article/commercial are you guys talking about? Jun 05 22:23:16 the pale white lady Palm commercial Jun 05 22:23:22 microsoft should have pushed their WMP software 10x harder in the 00's, IMO. Jun 05 22:23:28 when did that come out/ Jun 05 22:23:52 palm pixi commercial in 2009? Jun 05 22:24:02 did someone trying to be Andy Warhol? Jun 05 22:24:08 no. the Pre in 2009 Jun 05 22:24:13 1st ad Jun 05 22:24:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hk8IzdwYEA Jun 05 22:25:20 lol wtf Jun 05 22:25:27 EXACTLY! Jun 05 22:25:38 how does that sell phones/OS/SW/HW? Jun 05 22:25:39 ugh! Jun 05 22:25:50 it appeals to women. Jun 05 22:25:56 but not really. Jun 05 22:26:15 fxspec06: with Microsoft, sorta confused on their WP7 and their Win8 approach. Seems like two diff paths trying to meet each other. But no idea if they will Jun 05 22:26:15 it's a cool commercial Jun 05 22:26:26 so Jun 05 22:26:30 about win8 Jun 05 22:26:39 I blame Steve Jobs for the death of the start button. Jun 05 22:26:39 MS has two diff music apps: wmp & zune. Jun 05 22:27:12 Like I know they have a metro thing going on in win8. But still trying to keep it with a start button. Then I see WP7 and it has a metro interface Jun 05 22:27:15 Windows 8 CP2 is much better Jun 05 22:27:17 but Jun 05 22:27:20 but the cores are vastly different Jun 05 22:27:22 still no start button Jun 05 22:27:25 and lots of work to be done Jun 05 22:27:48 I'm interested to see it on a tablet in its final form. Jun 05 22:27:49 they need to integrate zune w/ WMP, or ditch WMP altogether and preinstall ZUNE. then, they need to integrate video libraries and PUSH this as one of W8's top features, and have it share over network automatically. and get rid of the million notifications at first launch. Jun 05 22:28:02 they'd close some of the gap w/ apple just by doing that Jun 05 22:28:28 Been trying to get a cheap WP7 device to play with Jun 05 22:28:35 * fxspec06 got lumia 800 in lap Jun 05 22:28:49 but can't seem to get one at a good price. I wouldn't care if it was scuffed or chipped on the back. just need the screen to be clear Jun 05 22:29:14 how's the 800? heard good things, but the camera isn't great like other nokia phones? Jun 05 22:29:27 it's an awesome device. i can't find too many faults w/ it.. Jun 05 22:29:28 just what I heard. no clue on it's authanticity Jun 05 22:29:37 camera is awesome compared to pre2.. ;) Jun 05 22:29:42 haha. what isn't Jun 05 22:29:47 <3 the camera button. it's great Jun 05 22:30:03 I had to send my GS2 skyrocket for repair (wifi radio is busted). Love it's camera Jun 05 22:30:04 depth of field, focus Jun 05 22:30:30 Tho I'm tempted to sell it and my iPod Touch in hopes of getting the latest iPhone later this year Jun 05 22:30:43 i still have yet to own any apple product, ever. Jun 05 22:30:46 multitasking isn't as smooth as webos, but that can be worked on. i haven't had an ipod touch ever, or an iphone Jun 05 22:31:00 my biggest concern is the micro/nano sim Jun 05 22:31:10 and if I get it, I can kiss my Pre3 good bye Jun 05 22:31:13 i've owned just about every edition of the ipod nano before the ipod nano video, and every ipod classic + the mini.. Jun 05 22:31:15 cause I don't think it fits properly Jun 05 22:31:27 I own a sandisk sansa fuze. Jun 05 22:31:36 but these days i just stream off pandora on my phone Jun 05 22:31:59 I stream XM radio. my pandora channels are getting a lot of replays lately Jun 05 22:32:02 i've been carrying around this non-activated lumia around the house over pre2 since i got it Jun 05 22:33:09 maybe I should take a chance on a bricked lumia and hope I can unbrick it Jun 05 22:33:14 just to get it cheap Jun 05 22:33:23 woah. what is this app: http://youtu.be/KX6lBwvq4zQ?t=16s Jun 05 22:33:36 nutsie? Jun 05 22:34:50 could be Jun 05 22:34:54 maybe just a video. who knows Jun 05 22:35:00 maybe the nanplayer guy did it Jun 05 22:35:12 "screen images simulated" Jun 05 22:36:09 thing that's really hurting MS though is the itunes store. Jun 05 22:36:54 they have a windows media one, but never bothered with it Jun 05 22:37:36 so yeah fxspec06: those are some of the things I learned from the book Jun 05 22:37:46 they have windows media player, windows media center, and zune software... Jun 05 22:37:51 to start to hate things around me cause they are ugly Jun 05 22:38:17 i use itunes because it's beautiful. i think it's probably the app of the millenium Jun 05 22:39:26 fxspec06, are you trying to make people lose their lunch? Jun 05 22:39:27 I like it, but on windows, it's still not a great experience. Got loads better lately Jun 05 22:39:58 RagingMind: tell doubletwist to stop being a memory hog and we can talk Jun 05 22:40:13 tho I do love their mobile app Jun 05 22:40:24 lol, my opinions are not exactly the most popular Jun 05 22:41:28 i should probably pick up that steve jobs book. i wouldn't mind reading it Jun 05 22:41:57 it's a good read. read it while recovering from achilles tendon surgery Jun 05 22:43:21 steve built an empire, there's no doubt about it. whether it's good or bad for the industry is debatable. many have tried to take it down, but it seems all they've done is make it stronger Jun 05 22:43:49 gotta re examine it in 4-5 years to see how the company goes without him Jun 05 22:43:54 i'm convinced there's only one man on the planet who can take it down: leo apotheker Jun 05 22:44:04 hahahahaha Jun 05 22:44:05 Leo Jun 05 22:44:23 I wish I won the lottery so I can buy a ton of stock in that french company and then demand Leo get fired Jun 05 22:44:30 and sell and do it again for w/e company he goes to Jun 05 22:44:36