**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 15 03:00:00 2017 Oct 15 03:11:35 It has no Internet so I obviously can't got to the store and install "Classic". Along those lines I've tried finding the original IPK with no luck Oct 15 03:28:28 Finally got it! Found the ipk here ftp://preanon@webosftp.qualitis.hu/webOS%20Apps/com.motionapps.app.classic_2.1.2_all.ipk Installed via the webos-tools jar file from the sdk (and novacomd running natively in Linux) java -jar webos-tools.jar palm-install ~/Documents/com.motionapps.app.classic_2.1.2_all.ipk https://i.imgur.com/ZWjPbLg.jpg Oct 15 17:11:17 t minus 40 Oct 15 17:15:41 and where I said 40 I meant 20 :D Oct 15 17:15:53 so now it's t minus 15 Oct 15 17:21:21 t - 10 Oct 15 17:25:33 t - 5 Oct 15 17:31:05 Hi everyone Oct 15 17:31:13 Morning! Oct 15 17:31:29 morning Oct 15 17:31:31 Morning! Oct 15 17:31:36 morning Oct 15 17:32:01 As you may have heard: I will be your Preemptive of the evening Oct 15 17:32:33 good luck! Oct 15 17:32:50 I did not keep track of everyone (and I did not really prepare). So Oct 15 17:32:51 .... Oct 15 17:33:02 is there anyone new today? Oct 15 17:33:14 and if so, do you want to introduce yourself? Oct 15 17:34:18 No one? - Then we'll simply start with the agenda (http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up-3.html#post3451652) Oct 15 17:35:02 bbito, you mentioned you had to leave early. So maybe let's start with you Oct 15 17:35:27 I pushed a 'release' for meta-doctor udate part 1 Oct 15 17:35:47 this is what Herrie and I discussed to get things rolling Oct 15 17:36:08 will need his help for planning next steps, but he's been deep in LunOS Oct 15 17:36:16 *LuneOS Oct 15 17:36:24 what would the next step be? Oct 15 17:36:42 Exploring adding patches and app installations Oct 15 17:37:05 ah yes, I remember there were some concerns regarding copyrights. Oct 15 17:37:24 (as being the reason why we couldn't host our own (modified) doctors) Oct 15 17:37:48 I think our project is separate from that concern Oct 15 17:37:53 ok Oct 15 17:38:25 Is there anything the community can do to help in the next month? Oct 15 17:39:07 continue posting to the thread what patches and apps are needed for a 'service pack' meta-doctor Oct 15 17:40:15 http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-internals/331796-webos-internals-meta-doctor-2017-a.html Oct 15 17:40:26 and what criteria do you feel we should have when selecting or proposing patches (I have not really kept up with this project, so I may be saying stuff that has already been addressed) Oct 15 17:41:41 anything that comes to mind - I hope we can come up with a flexible platform to allow arbitrary additions, so it would be good to see the breadth of what people feel they want / need Oct 15 17:42:50 Does anyone want to add anything to this subject? - Or shall we continue to the next point on the agenda? Oct 15 17:44:20 Nope....I Oct 15 17:44:39 I am pretty sure you guys can come up with something great1 Oct 15 17:45:17 Next items: 4e, 4f, and 5f => stuff regarding documentation, wiki, and on-device help system Oct 15 17:45:28 I' Oct 15 17:46:01 I'm involved in finding documentation. But to be honest, I haven't done anything on this this last month. Oct 15 17:46:37 [4.6] Fix & use the webOS internals wiki: I've been nibbling on update to the wiki, fixing stuff as I have time Oct 15 17:49:02 oil_ send me some MOJO documentation after our last meetup. I put in online on Banneret (for now): http://www.banneret.nl/webos/documentation/mojoAPI_refGuide/ Oct 15 17:49:07 Misj: is that banneret mirror yours? Oct 15 17:49:30 Banneret is my personal domain yes. Oct 15 17:49:32 Misj: yeah, that is awesome Oct 15 17:50:10 I also remember seeing some good enyo tutorials in the past that I really need to track down. Oct 15 17:50:52 http://www.isgoodstuff.com/ has some good recent Enyo stuff Oct 15 17:50:54 That's going to be one of my goals this next month Oct 15 17:51:30 cheers. I'll check whether there's anything useful to link/copy Oct 15 17:53:02 regarding the wiki, what bottlenecks do you encounter (apart from time) Oct 15 17:53:03 Is anyone here playing with Enyo-Next (Enact????)? Oct 15 17:53:22 Misj: Just time! Oct 15 17:53:41 Enyo-Next: I'm not. I'm not that interested in React right now... Oct 15 17:53:55 (even though it's higher up my list than Angular) Oct 15 17:54:09 and as Enyo-Next is React based, I'm a bit hesitant. Oct 15 17:54:26 I didn't bother with privaate beta because it seems suely unusable for legacy Oct 15 17:54:38 *surely unusable Oct 15 17:54:53 but I'm curious Oct 15 17:54:58 We already started? Oct 15 17:55:11 yes. 25 minutes ago. Oct 15 17:55:20 I thought 19:00 GMT ? Oct 15 17:55:20 Ah ok Oct 15 17:55:46 list time we decided on 19:30 (Dutch time) Oct 15 17:55:55 Herrie|Pre3: [10:35] I pushed a 'release' for meta-doctor udate part 1 [10:35] this is what Herrie and I discussed to get things rolling [10:36] will need his help for planning next steps, but he's been deep in LunOS Oct 15 17:56:19 *LuneOS (again!) Oct 15 17:56:29 Herrie, do you know what the LuneOS's team's experience with Enyo-Next is. I know you looked into future options for a framework. Oct 15 17:59:03 if no one has anything to add, I'll go to the next item. Oct 15 18:00:05 5a. Is git.webos-internals.org material all present on github? Oct 15 18:00:30 (or in a broader sense: relevant github pages and should we preserve them) Oct 15 18:01:24 If I remember correctly, Herrie had a backup? Oct 15 18:01:53 Hmm, there is some orphaned stuff that was on gitorious, e.g.: I pulled preware bootstrap from there into github: https://github.com/bbito/webos-internals-gitorious-bootstrap Oct 15 18:03:01 There is still a gitorious mirror with some of this: https://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/?p=webos-internals:applications.git;a=tree Oct 15 18:03:49 Great1 Oct 15 18:03:50 ! Oct 15 18:04:27 Herrie: can you see about pulling anything relevant there into webos-internals githib? Oct 15 18:04:48 *github Oct 15 18:05:05 I have the feeling we lost Herrie. Oct 15 18:05:22 (or at least: I don't see in my list anymore) Oct 15 18:07:18 Next item: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-user-s-online-meet-up-3.html#post3451651 Oct 15 18:07:28 5d. App stores discussion Oct 15 18:07:51 Currently apps are on an FTP and not really easy to find Oct 15 18:09:06 A real appstore would be nice, but for now, a list of apps. with a link to FTP would be a helpfull Oct 15 18:09:27 Seems like it would be a LOT of work to catalog that pile of apps Oct 15 18:09:42 true Oct 15 18:09:51 Last time Herrie said he had pulled all metadata from the store Oct 15 18:10:13 So I would assume there is already some sort of a list...maybe not that well organized... Oct 15 18:10:21 I would be willing to do the organizing Oct 15 18:10:50 JVLebbink1: Kudos! Oct 15 18:10:57 sorry all, having some trouble with my connection tonight Oct 15 18:11:19 @JVLebbink could you contact Herrie for his metadata Oct 15 18:11:19 to help Herrie, he & I have been given access to the proper git repositories but to date I don't think we've published anything yet Oct 15 18:12:01 thanks novaldex Oct 15 18:12:19 yeah....I just have to see how....shouldn´t be a problem though Oct 15 18:12:34 Let´s see what I can make of it Oct 15 18:12:36 ś Oct 15 18:13:19 I don't know if the metadata also contains screenshots. I think it did contain user-comments (but I don't really think that is too relevant) Oct 15 18:13:56 Sory my connection went away too Oct 15 18:14:10 I have everything in http://github.com/wosigh Oct 15 18:14:22 And talking to ka6sox to import it to webos internals gh Oct 15 18:15:21 Herrie: I think that is still missing the gitorious stuff Oct 15 18:15:21 Does it need any more work - like screenshots? Oct 15 18:15:47 Herrie: e.g.: https://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/?p=webos-internals:applications.git;a=tree Oct 15 18:16:07 @Herrie. we're also talking about organizing the apps to make it easier to find apps on the FTP Oct 15 18:16:43 Not talking about the store it seams :) Oct 15 18:17:05 you mentioned you downloaded the metadata. JVLebbink is willing to plow through the apps to get a more organized list. Oct 15 18:17:14 Could you share the metadata with him? Oct 15 18:17:48 I have it, need to dig it up Oct 15 18:17:57 It are all json files Oct 15 18:18:20 10000+ of them ;-) Oct 15 18:18:25 :) Oct 15 18:18:41 Let´s see what I can make of them Oct 15 18:18:53 That means no screenshots? Oct 15 18:18:57 * novaldex is back (again, he thinks) Oct 15 18:19:10 I might have those too Oct 15 18:19:16 Been a while Oct 15 18:19:16 Herrie|TP: I've got to skip out early, perhaps we can catch on github this week Oct 15 18:19:24 ok Oct 15 18:19:30 ok Oct 15 18:19:37 Great Oct 15 18:19:38 thanks for your update bbito Oct 15 18:19:41 Bye all - Thanks! Oct 15 18:19:45 All 10000 of them Oct 15 18:19:46 I have access to wosigh where I can import the gitorious stuff Oct 15 18:19:46 bye Oct 15 18:20:17 I also got access to webos internals doctor & patches repo, so can get that rolling with bbito Oct 15 18:20:22 And novaldex Oct 15 18:20:57 I scraped the whole HP app store before it went down Oct 15 18:21:27 how do we feel about copyrights in this case. In my opinion it's (just about) all abandonware...but that's not a legal term Oct 15 18:21:46 specificially the part where we link to the files Oct 15 18:21:55 (not so much the metadata I think) Oct 15 18:21:56 Well text shouldn't be an issue. Images might be different story Oct 15 18:22:14 Abandonware mainly Oct 15 18:23:07 Lots of devs were contacted, some made their apps available, others didn't reply at all Oct 15 18:23:26 At the moment I wasn´t planning on making a external accesable website. Maybe a place to download the whole thing ... but It could be huge Oct 15 18:23:51 what do you mean by 'download the whole thing'? Oct 15 18:24:09 Zip file Oct 15 18:24:22 and would it be an on-device app or a web-site-searcher? Oct 15 18:24:30 or no app at all. Oct 15 18:24:33 I noticed there were some issues with existing patches feed (not sure if it's feed or patches itself, so will look into that before starting to put things from webosnation on internals patches repo Oct 15 18:25:02 I don´t think an on device app would be possible......except when you mean PC as a device Oct 15 18:25:38 well, I was also thinking something similar to the original store, with a server-side API that requests the JSON data. Oct 15 18:25:48 But without the direct download link Oct 15 18:25:56 (I don't know...) Oct 15 18:27:45 That could be a possibility, but then I would make it obfuscated and encrypted so not everyone can see a public API with app-store like properties Oct 15 18:28:51 I sometimes wonder if a replacement app store at this time might be a bit far for us Oct 15 18:29:04 but I have to say some kind of searchable index would be pretty handy Oct 15 18:29:26 it could simply reference a filename that's needed, which could be searched for on the abandonware site Oct 15 18:29:40 leaving the option of linking the two together later an easier possibility? Oct 15 18:29:57 As a start that would be the plan Oct 15 18:31:17 For enyo-next it's called enact based on react. Until very recently they used Facebook's extremely bad license Oct 15 18:31:37 Which we didn't feel comfortable with. Polymer seems a better fit for us Oct 15 18:31:51 :-D Oct 15 18:32:25 Built by old Enyo devs mainly and we support webcomponents from latest release which is Chromium 56 based :-) Oct 15 18:32:39 did facebook change the license? - Or is it not based on react anymore? - Oct 15 18:32:49 And Enact doesn't really have a mobile theme either Oct 15 18:33:09 Ie no Onyx, only Moonstone Oct 15 18:33:18 They recently changed the license Oct 15 18:33:28 ok Oct 15 18:33:32 Into something more convenient Oct 15 18:33:58 this polymer I assume: https://www.polymer-project.org/2.0/docs/devguide/feature-overview Oct 15 18:33:58 Herrie|TP: for them or us? Oct 15 18:34:15 Bit would still require the whole UI to be rebuilt. WebComponents with Polymer looks like a nicer and more scalable way for us Oct 15 18:34:28 That Polymer yes Oct 15 18:34:47 I agree, i've looked into polymer & it does look very good for us (although i've yet to play with it..) Oct 15 18:34:48 Made by tons of ex HP/LG Enyo devs now @ Google Oct 15 18:34:55 I personally liked Enyo's JS abstraction over HTML templates. But hay, that's just me :) Oct 15 18:35:55 Misj: Yes but for Enact we'd need to do the whole UI. Polymer has lots of backing out there too. More compared to Enyo/Enact I'd say. So less inventing wheel and more reusing ;-) Oct 15 18:36:08 Which is convenient with the very limited resources Oct 15 18:36:26 Does polymer also work decently on legacy webOS? Oct 15 18:37:32 Misj: Doubt it due to heavy use of webcomponents Oct 15 18:37:47 Which is only in recent Chrome Oct 15 18:38:40 ok Oct 15 18:38:43 -- I think we've handled most on the agenda -- Oct 15 18:39:08 ok great! Oct 15 18:39:36 browser (Qupzilla) and legacy browser patch (me) may not be so relevant today. Oct 15 18:39:44 anyone anything else to bring up Oct 15 18:39:58 or something to focus on/think about for this next month? Oct 15 18:40:24 I think we can get the Doctor update rolling Oct 15 18:40:31 Herrie & I are still working on the patch portal, we've only recently gained access to the git repositories & still need to investigate further Oct 15 18:41:07 I assume that's the metadoctor bbito discussed at the start of this meetup Oct 15 18:41:31 Yes meta doctor have some more time for that now Oct 15 18:42:42 should we also discuss hosting (modified) doctors? - I'm personally not that concerned with the copyrights as it's purpose is to actually be able to use the devices as intended. Not to do something 'new' Oct 15 18:42:50 (like loading webOS on new devices) Oct 15 18:43:44 It's a grey area really Oct 15 18:44:05 If someone wants to host them they're free to do so, just internals/ports won't do it Oct 15 18:44:29 true. But we all would have preferred if Palm (HP) still supported us ;) Oct 15 18:44:37 Yes Oct 15 18:45:01 Just Rod Whitby has a strong stance on this Oct 15 18:45:03 I think that's the right decision for internals/ports Oct 15 18:46:12 ok. is there anything new we could focus on next month? Oct 15 18:46:12 Can´t blame him Oct 15 18:46:58 One thing that comes to mind does have to do with QupZilla and your (Herrie's) recent post on getting Netflix to run on LuneOS. Oct 15 18:47:28 You once mentioned on webOS nation that something similar might be possible with QupZilla. Oct 15 18:47:48 Is this something we might ask NIN_ru to look into Oct 15 18:48:25 I think several webOS users would love this addition, but I have no idea how much work it is (for NIN_ru), or how relevant it trully is. Oct 15 18:48:46 (or how relevant it is to NUN_ru) Oct 15 18:49:37 He's looking into it but has some issues Oct 15 18:49:49 ok. didn't know that Oct 15 18:50:17 well...then I think we've covered just about everything. Oct 15 18:50:41 i think it's not possible unless someone find armel (not hardfp) binaries.. Oct 15 18:51:05 I think we should plan a new date on the forums, as we will be dealing with daylight saving. And I really want Preemtive to be our host again next time. Oct 15 18:52:20 i've often suggested 3rd sunday of the month, although admittedly I might not be able to make that date next month Oct 15 18:52:38 (19th Nov) Oct 15 18:52:52 Yeah, the 19th might be a problem for me as well. Oct 15 18:52:53 it's actually 5 weeks I think Oct 15 18:54:16 we'll discuss it on the webOS nation. Oct 15 18:54:28 if we suggest the 12th instead, that would leave it open to one more before the end of the year, early to mid Dec Oct 15 18:54:54 Let´s set a date... Oct 15 18:54:59 ok Oct 15 18:55:07 I agree with 12th Oct 15 18:55:27 anyone opposing the 12th? (I should be available) Oct 15 18:56:00 Was today's time convenient? - Or should it be slightly earlier or later? Oct 15 18:56:19 (also taking into account daylight saving...) Oct 15 18:56:49 DST changes for me for the next meeting, but personally i'd prefer it to start on the hour (easier on the memory!) Oct 15 18:57:32 @novaldex I agree. Personally I prefer the 19:00 (Dutch time) over 19:30 we had today. Oct 15 18:58:05 but that might be entirely different with DST Oct 15 18:58:17 (because I still don't understand how that affects the entire world) Oct 15 18:59:26 should we suggest 1800GMT instead then? for me (& Preemptive) that'd make it effectively the same time (UK), but I think for N.America it'd be an hour different (later I reckon) Oct 15 19:00:12 or, as previously suggested, we put that on the forums to confirm closer to the planned date Oct 15 19:00:42 Well. Let's propose November 12th, 18:00GMT. Oct 15 19:00:49 1800GMT is fine with me Oct 15 19:02:20 Ok. Then all that is left is for me to thank all of you for your participation. Oct 15 19:02:33 And I hope to see you all next month Oct 15 19:02:43 Goodnight Oct 15 19:02:57 Bye! Oct 15 19:03:49 g'night.. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 16 03:00:01 2017