**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 25 03:00:00 2018
Nov 25 16:32:28 <nizovn> hi!
Nov 25 16:32:33 <Misj> hay
Nov 25 16:37:55 <bughi1980> yawn, nello
Nov 25 16:38:01 <bughi1980> hello, I meant
Nov 25 16:38:25 <codepoet80> hello!
Nov 25 16:38:48 <bughi1980> bought something or still looking at it ?
Nov 25 16:43:22 <Misj> is Preemptive in yet?
Nov 25 16:44:51 <codepoet80> not seen yet
Nov 25 16:45:13 <Misj> do we want to start without him? (anyone read the agenda?)
Nov 25 16:45:54 <codepoet80> pulling it up now
Nov 25 16:46:24 <codepoet80> introductions are first. anyone new here?
Nov 25 16:48:31 <codepoet80> silence means no. next topic was "proposed updates to aims or rules of the group" any thoughts?
Nov 25 16:50:12 <codepoet80> again, assuming silence means no. next topic was selection of officers. maybe that should wait for preemptive.
Nov 25 16:50:34 <Misj> yeah, we've had that one for over a year now...keep pushing it back :)
Nov 25 16:50:40 <codepoet80> Topic #4 is progress reports. Nizovn, got any news on Qupzilla or Qt browser?
Nov 25 16:51:01 <nizovn> no progress here after release...
Nov 25 16:52:26 <codepoet80> thanks for getting those updates out. maybe its covered in the forums, but the latest Qupzilla is much smaller than the last (and I can't get it to work). Anything you can share on your new packaging strategy?
Nov 25 16:53:07 <nizovn> it should be much smaller than the first version
Nov 25 16:53:19 <nizovn> but should be similar size as previous
Nov 25 16:53:26 <codepoet80> i get an error that fonts are missing.
Nov 25 16:54:29 <nizovn> hm, to qupzilla works, but fonts are not visible?
Nov 25 16:54:34 <nizovn> s/to/so
Nov 25 16:55:11 <bughi1980> on a particular site ?
Nov 25 16:55:24 <codepoet80> no, it won't start. when i try to manually kick of the binary with novaterm that's the error i get. freshly doctored TouchPad with all the dependencies installed.
Nov 25 16:55:38 <bughi1980> quite weird
Nov 25 16:56:15 <nizovn> yes, this is because it should be launched through jailer
Nov 25 16:56:19 <codepoet80> I'm rocking the previous version without issue though, so i can post this on the forums. don't mean to hijack the meeting if i'm the only one with problems
Nov 25 16:56:49 <codepoet80> its really been a life saver on my TouchPad, thanks again
Nov 25 16:57:02 <bughi1980> wait... if you run it by icon, it just don't open ?
Nov 25 16:57:24 <bughi1980> because if so, you need to run the jailer commands provided on the forum thread
Nov 25 16:57:41 <codepoet80> ah, ok. i must have missed that. yes, that's the symptom i observe
Nov 25 16:57:58 <nizovn> sorry again for that
Nov 25 16:58:19 <codepoet80> small price to pay for a much leaner package!
Nov 25 16:58:20 <bughi1980> you need to run that, either from the device or from an external prompt
Nov 25 16:58:33 <codepoet80> can do.
Nov 25 16:59:11 <codepoet80> alright Topic 4.3 is "Updated meta-doctors". @bbito, any news?
Nov 25 17:00:10 <bbito> nope, no work on my end and :Herrie seems very busy with LuneOS
Nov 25 17:01:02 <codepoet80> ok. 4.4 "Update location service" @Misj
Nov 25 17:02:21 <Misj> Nothing to repost. mostly because I really haven't taken the time to look into any of this. Maybe dkirker and/or mazzinia have something to report; but for now I think this one is on a low burn.
Nov 25 17:04:20 <codepoet80> 4.5 Fix the webos internals patch feed or manage manually. Anyone here who can speak to this?
Nov 25 17:06:28 <codepoet80> @novaldex, your name is on this one on the agenda. got any news?
Nov 25 17:08:41 <codepoet80> alright. let's move on. Topic 4.6 is Preservation / Restoration of sources of documentations.
Nov 25 17:09:38 <Misj> I missed last month's meeting, but I understand there was a discussion about putting some of the stuff on GIT in a more unified format.
Nov 25 17:09:38 <codepoet80> Has anyone had a look at my restored HP SDK/PDK site? The top menus are updated to show live/healthy content links with a green check mark, and content still coming from the Wayback Machine with a little clock.
Nov 25 17:09:57 <Misj> Yes, saw that one. Looked good
Nov 25 17:09:59 <codepoet80> Here's a temporary URL to the content running on my Pi http://urlgone.com/301/af776f/
Nov 25 17:10:41 <codepoet80> and the GitHub link: https://github.com/codepoet80/webos-sdk-archive
Nov 25 17:11:46 <Misj> There are some things I think we should also document. e.g which version of nodejs is used (I always forget, and it's quite hard to find. webOS 2 uses 0.2.[] and webos 3 uses 0.4.[]...
Nov 25 17:12:13 <Misj> The documentation for this can still be found on Node's website (I think), but it's an important thing to note.
Nov 25 17:13:01 <Misj> Wonder if it's possible to update NodeJS on the devices (and if we want to...they are specifically useful for custom services; but that requires apps that use services ;) )
Nov 25 17:13:20 <codepoet80> if someone can find a link, i can figure out how to add it to that site. i'm in favor of having a single source of truth -- even though that means expanding on/adding to the original site content
Nov 25 17:14:05 <Misj> (as a reference NodeJS is currently on version 10 or 11...so 0.2 was really really early on in their development)
Nov 25 17:14:28 <Misj> https://nodejs.org/docs/
Nov 25 17:14:59 <codepoet80> ya, that is old. i'm working on rescuing a dead touchpad that i can use for hacking things like alternate system executables
Nov 25 17:16:05 <Misj> I need to search the internet, but somewhere back in my mind I thinks it's 0.2.6 and 0.4.8 respectively. But as said, I always forget.
Nov 25 17:16:49 <codepoet80> ok, also feel free to pull the repo and make changes live to the documentation
Nov 25 17:16:50 <bughi1980> that's not a bad idea. could be used to test also adding alternate newer libraries
Nov 25 17:18:14 <nizovn> i have TP here with me, so node --version gives v0.4.12
Nov 25 17:18:24 <codepoet80> nice
Nov 25 17:18:32 <Misj> that matches the openwebos git
Nov 25 17:18:37 <Misj> https://github.com/openwebos/nodejs
Nov 25 17:19:05 <Misj> https://www.slideshare.net/unwiredben/capitoljs-enyo-nodejs-the-state-of-webos
Nov 25 17:19:16 <Misj> indicates for webos 2.0: noe.js 0.2.3
Nov 25 17:19:42 <Misj> I don't think it was ever updated beyond 0.2. ..
Nov 25 17:19:54 <codepoet80> an easy thing to try might be copying the nodejs from the touchpad onto a Pre/emulator running 2.0
Nov 25 17:21:08 <Misj> it would be interesting to see if it's possible.
Nov 25 17:21:47 <codepoet80> ok, i think that covers 4.6.1 and 4.6.2. to clarify, proposed policy is to start by rescuing existing documentation to the github repo, so that we're not depending on Wayback Machine. Then with that as a base, expand or update as appropriate. Including info about NodeJS versions -- I'll take that task.
Nov 25 17:22:11 <codepoet80> 4.6.3 is interesting - "On device Help System"
Nov 25 17:22:51 <codepoet80> does anyone have an archive of this content? this could be as easy as re-hosting it -- although I'm not sure there's a lot of "new users" who would benefit from the effort...
Nov 25 17:23:52 <bughi1980> various of us have the archive, but I think it may be in different formats
Nov 25 17:23:58 <bughi1980> I've it anyway
Nov 25 17:24:31 <bughi1980> I suspect we ripped the help in at least 2 or 3 different ways
Nov 25 17:24:41 <codepoet80> can you share some how? i'd like to take a look, even if its just for personal curiosity
Nov 25 17:25:01 <bughi1980> sure thing, let me find the archive to upload to mega
Nov 25 17:25:53 <codepoet80> thanks. if no one else is interested, you could just PM me on the forums.
Nov 25 17:26:09 <bughi1980> 304mb
Nov 25 17:26:15 <bughi1980> plus the skeleton
Nov 25 17:26:51 <codepoet80> 4.7 is "App Store Specification" - Preemptive is on the hook for that one, unless anyone else can jump in?
Nov 25 17:27:18 <bughi1980> oh, you're lucky, is already stored also there :P
Nov 25 17:27:38 <codepoet80> nice.
Nov 25 17:27:56 <bughi1980> https://mega.nz/#!fZ1BzCob!VXf4zuOPbUfZgc5OYSLDR0z81QFFRiwTdIhxQrG2aN4
Nov 25 17:28:11 <bughi1980> https://mega.nz/#!fBkXwAZR!6XyEU7PR6VKwYLwAbd5RD_NFeEtnQi_w8Lyu2pSS2vs
Nov 25 17:28:36 <bughi1980> I've probably it copied in various places for security
Nov 25 17:29:08 <bughi1980> this is complete with the videos
Nov 25 17:30:42 <codepoet80_> wow, pulling that down killed my browser. had to re-join from another machine.
Nov 25 17:30:50 <bughi1980> ahahah
Nov 25 17:31:12 <codepoet80_> thanks for sharing, i'll store it in my OneDrive too. I have a free TB for life, so its good for cold storage.
Nov 25 17:31:21 <bughi1980> ah, I've also a 3rd party appmarket app
Nov 25 17:31:24 <bughi1980> yw
Nov 25 17:31:43 <codepoet80_> interesting.
Nov 25 17:32:08 <bughi1980> zoopda ( chinese ) made their own app market, integrated with their backend, I think
Nov 25 17:32:20 <bughi1980> i've managed to recover the on device part
Nov 25 17:32:52 <bughi1980> I think it can be reused
Nov 25 17:33:04 <codepoet80_> is it written a *nix app? or a web tech app?
Nov 25 17:33:23 <bughi1980> web. nothing is compiled
Nov 25 17:33:50 <codepoet80_> perfect. should be pretty easy to reverse engineer their back-end then.
Nov 25 17:33:57 <bughi1980> https://mega.nz/#!nJF2TQ7J!K20RT68Y9FLOlJrRCeq_zUgiRb0OU1yapmZ8uvP8rig
Nov 25 17:34:08 <codepoet80_> i'll click that link later, just in case :-p
Nov 25 17:34:22 <bughi1980> yep, it should be not a big task
Nov 25 17:35:32 <codepoet80_> this sort of bleeds into topic 4.9 - "submission process". which is related to 4.8 "Night Moves"
Nov 25 17:35:50 <codepoet80_> first, since i'm the author, has anyone tried out Night Moves? Any thoughts/feedback?
Nov 25 17:37:04 <bughi1980> I've to confess I've not tried it, erm
Nov 25 17:37:43 <Misj> I only have a TP, and you said it's functionality wasn't there yet, so I've waited until trying
Nov 25 17:38:14 <codepoet80_> on a Pre, its set-it-and-forget-it. Ya, the TouchPad still needs a little more work. I should have the wrapped up in a week or so. which leads into the next question:
Nov 25 17:38:50 <codepoet80_> I submitted the app at http://feed.pivotce.com/manage/ but haven't seen it show up in Preware yet. Is Preemptive the approver? Someone else? Or is that feed a dead end?
Nov 25 17:39:56 <Misj> I think there was something with the thread right now. But maybe preemtive or Herry could say exactly what.
Nov 25 17:40:25 <Misj> I would make a notice in the thread, and home someone reacts
Nov 25 17:41:21 <codepoet80_> i noticed that most developers of note (@nizovn) just made their own feed. I suppose I could do that, although I'm not sure I have the content to justify it yet.
Nov 25 17:41:44 <Misj> I've seen a feed with just a single app...so...
Nov 25 17:41:58 <Misj> Heee Preemptive...
Nov 25 17:42:11 <codepoet80_> speak of the devil :-)
Nov 25 17:42:26 <nizovn> i was forced to make own feed, going to replace packages to pivotce sometime
Nov 25 17:42:47 <Preemptive> Uh, oh, got the tie wrong, but you seem to be doing fine without me!
Nov 25 17:42:50 <Misj> up until now I haven't tried to get my apps into preware...
Nov 25 17:43:02 <codepoet80_> @nizovn, your stuff is worth the effort to add a new feed in Preware!
Nov 25 17:43:19 * Preemptive reads log...
Nov 25 17:43:35 <nizovn> codepoet80_: :)
Nov 25 17:43:36 <codepoet80_> @Preemptive, glad you're here. We're swirling around topics 4.7 through 4.9, and could definitely use your input!
Nov 25 17:47:31 <Preemptive> OK..
Nov 25 17:48:23 <Preemptive> Around 4.6. Should we start a new repository for the documentation - I think a central store has been sort of agreed..?
Nov 25 17:49:04 <Preemptive> Like a 'group' repository i mean - not 100% sure how these things work
Nov 25 17:49:35 <codepoet80_> github has been proposed. anyone can "join" a repo and contribute.
Nov 25 17:49:47 <Preemptive> ...but I'm sort of thinking that we could have a few admins or mods to check the content
Nov 25 17:50:08 <codepoet80_> unknown participants can submit pull requests, which need to be reviewed. known participants can have admin/mod access.
Nov 25 17:50:51 <Preemptive> OK. I suppose thew rep owner then reviews, but I'm suggesting that if we have a few, then it gets easier.
Nov 25 17:51:06 <Preemptive> a few mods / admions I mean
Nov 25 17:51:24 <codepoet80_> agreed. happy to grant access to anyone here. just need your github account.
Nov 25 17:51:47 <codepoet80_> (name only)
Nov 25 17:52:08 <Preemptive> OK. Well I'm lost projects - I'll check the address. It's mainly to collect webOS abandon ware
Nov 25 17:53:27 <codepoet80_> so is http://feed.pivotce.com/manage/ dead?
Nov 25 17:54:20 <Preemptive> codeport80: I don't think so. Why? Is there a problem?
Nov 25 17:54:28 <Preemptive> https://github.com/Lost-Projects
Nov 25 17:54:50 <codepoet80_> i submitted there 2 days ago, but its stuck waiting for someone to review.
Nov 25 17:55:19 <Preemptive> I wouldn't expect speed, but I can message Pattyland
Nov 25 17:55:52 <Preemptive> So what's the address for the documantation repository then?
Nov 25 17:55:52 <codepoet80_> thanks. I added Lost-Projects to the webos-sdk-archive. You should have an invite email.
Nov 25 17:56:07 <codepoet80_> https://github.com/codepoet80/webos-sdk-archive
Nov 25 17:57:07 <Misj> I'm sorry, but I have to go. It's 19:00 where I am, and I need to make dinner.
Nov 25 17:57:31 <Preemptive> codepoet: Oh, I thought we were on a documentation repository. Shall we set one up?
Nov 25 17:58:08 <codepoet80_> https://github.com/codepoet80/webos-sdk-archive is the documentation repository.
Nov 25 17:58:19 <bughi1980> what's still missing, sdk and co wise ?
Nov 25 17:58:19 <Preemptive> OK..
Nov 25 17:58:23 <codepoet80_> @Misj, take care!
Nov 25 17:59:20 <codepoet80_> the restored content is fairly complete -- for web tech development. i use it regularly, and it meets most needs.
Nov 25 17:59:42 <codepoet80_> i haven't done any back-end services yet, so i'm not able to identify gaps there.
Nov 25 18:00:00 <bughi1980> gotcha
Nov 25 18:00:23 <bughi1980> I remember someone had ares up and running
Nov 25 18:01:20 <Misj> Ok, before I leave... ;)
Nov 25 18:01:45 <Misj> yes, Ares is running but...there are several problems:
Nov 25 18:02:07 <Misj> 1. browsers don't allow java applets anymore, so you need an old version of a browser.
Nov 25 18:02:32 <Misj> 2. the current version of JAVA doesn't allow connecting to the touchpad anymore via the applet..
Nov 25 18:02:38 <Misj> so it's running but it's not.
Nov 25 18:03:19 <Misj> I have an old notebook running windows xp with an old version of Iron (a fork of Chrome), and an old verison of JAVA. And I have to make sure nothing gets updated...
Nov 25 18:03:21 <Misj> and on there it works.
Nov 25 18:03:37 <Misj> Maybe it works on Linux...I never tested that.
Nov 25 18:03:45 <codepoet80_> what about a VM?
Nov 25 18:04:10 <Misj> could possibly work, but my success in this particular case was limited.
Nov 25 18:04:18 <Misj> (as in: no success).
Nov 25 18:04:48 <Misj> http://www.banneret.nl/webos/Ares/
Nov 25 18:05:03 <Misj> If someone is interested in trying.
Nov 25 18:05:10 * Preemptive has read the log.
Nov 25 18:05:28 <codepoet80_> ya, i'll play with it
Nov 25 18:05:42 <codepoet80_> i have lots of old machines running old and unsafe browsers :-p
Nov 25 18:05:48 <Misj> If someone prefers to run in on a local server you can use the AresDebug.rar. I have used that successfully in the past to transfer it to different systems.
Nov 25 18:07:09 <Misj> Oh, and you need to make sure - in the settings - that JAVA allows applets that are unsigned or missing a certificate, or have an old certificate...something like that.
Nov 25 18:08:04 <bughi1980> dinner here, too ... going to vanish, sorry :P
Nov 25 18:08:08 <Misj> and maybe a JAVA programmer can modify the webOSConnect_1_2.jar
Nov 25 18:08:16 <Misj> it's located at ../webos/Ares/opus/opus/$Palm/library/Webos/assets
Nov 25 18:08:33 <codepoet80_> i need to wrap up too. need to help kids with homework.
Nov 25 18:08:48 <Misj> Then I suggest we wrap things up...?
Nov 25 18:08:56 <Preemptive> Well i have a couple of comments....
Nov 25 18:09:19 <Preemptive> 4.7 I like the sound of the Zoopda thing.
Nov 25 18:10:13 <Preemptive> 4.9 The feed at preware.net for  webosnation is still there, but it appears to be out of date
Nov 25 18:10:43 <Preemptive> However, updating the links with known 'version numbers or names allows a download
Nov 25 18:11:13 <Preemptive> http://preware.net/feeds/precentral/Packages
Nov 25 18:12:04 <Preemptive> So i suspect communication between Preware and the app gallery is broken, but the downl;oad links still work
Nov 25 18:12:45 <Preemptive> We can't D/L from WN, but can maybe work around with preware
Nov 25 18:13:42 <Preemptive> However, I'm starting to think we should start to think about talking to Derek Kessler to take over the app gallery rather than wait for it to be fixed
Nov 25 18:16:09 <codepoet80_> ya, we need a live feed that can be updated and managed.
Nov 25 18:17:22 <Preemptive> Again depending on available space, we could do a github repo and make a feed to that. We could also try adding the existing feed to the app museum
Nov 25 18:17:52 <Preemptive> ..Something to thin about for next time if everyone wants to go
Nov 25 18:17:57 <Preemptive> *think
Nov 25 18:18:07 <codepoet80_> a repo for the feed is relatively easy. hosting the ipks themselves is an expensive proposition...
Nov 25 18:18:53 <Preemptive> Codepoet80_: Yes, depending on the free space and the size of the app gallery
Nov 25 18:19:36 <codepoet80_> related to hosting -- back on topic 4.6. i found GitHub pages -- free hosting for static content based on a GitHub repo.
Nov 25 18:20:15 <codepoet80_> This is perfect for the SDK/documentation content...except that I had started moving to PHP. I created an issue to back out that dependency and move back to static pages. Free content hosting is worth the effort!
Nov 25 18:20:38 <Preemptive> I'll look into that. I'm wondering if MS have spare space and an eagerness to retain people as there was a bit of an exodus..
Nov 25 18:21:07 <Preemptive> Yes, static pages will be fine.
Nov 25 18:21:47 <codepoet80_> ok. gotta run. nice talking to y'all! i'm going to start working on some fixes/polish for the MWatch app, once I get my other projects wrapped up.
Nov 25 18:22:00 <Preemptive> Are we skipping all the discussion then, or is anyone hanging around?
Nov 25 18:22:22 <codepoet80_> we got through 4 -- some of us have been here for 2 hours ;-)
Nov 25 18:22:29 <Preemptive> Or we can just set a date for next time (and perhaps the time is the important bit!)
Nov 25 18:23:09 <Preemptive> Dec 23? Or too close to Xmas?
Nov 25 18:23:15 <Preemptive> 16th?
Nov 25 18:23:29 <codepoet80_> 30 min later, either well before or well after Christmas works for me. 16th is good. i'll look for final decision on the forums.
Nov 25 18:24:11 <nizovn> no preference for me
Nov 25 18:24:15 <Preemptive> I'm thinking 16th is good.
Nov 25 18:24:20 <nizovn> ok
Nov 25 18:24:35 <Preemptive> 30 mins later is 1700 GMT
Nov 25 18:24:50 <Preemptive> Any one against that time?
Nov 25 18:25:25 <Preemptive> So December 16th, 1700 GMT
Nov 25 18:26:06 <nizovn> bye all
Nov 25 18:26:27 <Preemptive> If there are no objections, we'll stop here. we can always discuss further on the forums. i think all items now have an associated thread
Nov 25 18:26:42 <Preemptive> nizovn: Bye! Thanks for being here!
Nov 25 18:33:39 <Preemptive> https://pages.github.com/
Nov 25 19:34:57 <dkirker> oh man.... I definitely was not up earlier...
Nov 25 19:47:27 <bughi1980> so it seems :P
Nov 25 19:51:11 <dkirker> lol
Nov 25 21:30:20 <Preemptive> I am still here if anyone wants to chat...
Nov 25 22:09:03 <bughi1980> ohhh :)
Nov 25 22:15:59 <Preemptive> uhhh!
Nov 25 22:16:37 <Preemptive> https://forums.webosnation.com/webos-events/331758-webos-users-online-meet-up-8.html#post3454628
Nov 25 22:16:41 <Preemptive> Anything missing?
Nov 25 22:51:49 <bughi1980> think nothing is missing
Nov 25 22:52:16 <Preemptive> OK. Thanks. I did spot one litle thing, but i aready fixed it.
Nov 25 22:54:11 <bughi1980> :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 26 02:59:59 2018