**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 19 02:59:57 2011
Aug 19 15:34:32 <elpollodiablo1_> dtzWill: does the X use wacom drives? there seems to be a bug in the drive that causes only to scroll down. I was trying to look through the X stuff in the repository but unable to find any sepecifics to it.
Aug 19 16:37:58 <dtzWill> wacom what now?
Aug 19 16:38:17 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: you mean xterm's sb? doesn't it use click to scroll down and right-click to scroll up?
Aug 19 16:38:47 * dtzWill verifies
Aug 19 16:38:52 <dtzWill> and we don't have right-click (yet) :)
Aug 19 16:42:23 <NuttyBunny> or middle-click
Aug 19 16:42:30 <NuttyBunny> that's what you use to scroll in xterm
Aug 19 16:46:57 <scoutcamper> i think all dtzWill hears all day is "I NEED <INSERT FEATURE HERE> IN XTERM FAST"
Aug 19 17:36:21 <elpollodiablo1> dtzWill: really it is right click scroll up? that would explain it. so is the best approach to add right click to the key mapping?
Aug 19 17:38:03 <elpollodiablo1> has there been any talks about how we want to implement the right click binding?
Aug 19 17:57:32 <elpollodiablo1> anythought about two finger scrolling?
Aug 19 18:07:59 <linuxjacques> oh, that would be nice
Aug 19 18:08:44 <linuxjacques> did they ever release the xorg server multi-touch feature, or is it still delayed?
Aug 19 18:09:05 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: ping
Aug 19 18:10:11 <oilsworkn> pong
Aug 19 18:10:51 <oilsworkn> PuffTheMagic: ^
Aug 19 18:11:05 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: after all th shit blew up yesterday I didnt hear from you much
Aug 19 18:11:14 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: like the direction the nick list is going or no?
Aug 19 18:11:44 <oilsworkn> yeah, it looks ok
Aug 19 18:12:47 <PuffTheMagic> besides it not being driven by nick objects what are your issues with it, why is it only ok
Aug 19 18:13:45 <oilsworkn> because i haven't really played with it yet?
Aug 19 18:15:00 <oilsworkn> all i saw was that screenshot
Aug 19 18:15:53 <PuffTheMagic> oh
Aug 19 18:15:59 <PuffTheMagic> well it doesnt do anything yet so
Aug 19 18:16:05 <PuffTheMagic> nothing really to play with
Aug 19 18:16:38 <PuffTheMagic> im prob not gonna get anything done tonight or tomorrow, i leave Dayton tomorrow for Buffalo
Aug 19 18:16:48 <oilsworkn> but yeah, the slide out from right was exactly what i was thinking of
Aug 19 18:16:51 <PuffTheMagic> i will be there for about a week then im going back to Albany
Aug 19 18:17:14 <oilsworkn> did you play with 'pinning' it at all?
Aug 19 18:18:56 <PuffTheMagic> no not yet
Aug 19 18:19:30 <oilsworkn> ok
Aug 19 18:27:03 <oilsworkn> PuffTheMagic: you want an invite to check out irccloud?
Aug 19 18:27:08 * oilsworkn has 3
Aug 19 18:27:28 <oilsworkn> i know you probably wont use it, but maybe just to check out how they do things for wirc inspiration
Aug 19 18:29:31 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: i'm welcome to suggestions on how to implement it--in terms of the exposed user experience
Aug 19 18:29:57 <dtzWill> (ideas like "gesture+click is right-click" (won't work for TP I don't think), etc)
Aug 19 18:30:07 <dtzWill> scoutcamper|away: rofl not /untrue/ ;)
Aug 19 18:30:18 <elpollodiablo1> I was thinking some kind of double click is right-click
Aug 19 18:30:59 <elpollodiablo1> but not sure how that would affect the rest of the user experience
Aug 19 18:32:43 <elpollodiablo1> what is the best way to debug all of this? I was going to start messing with mouse configurations.
Aug 19 18:38:53 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: well how would you double-click then? :)
Aug 19 18:39:08 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: sure
Aug 19 18:39:11 <dtzWill> not being a negative nancy--just there are a lot of usability demands that are a bit tricky to get all lined up nicely
Aug 19 18:39:18 <PuffTheMagic> oilsworkn: rmh3093@gmail.com
Aug 19 18:39:21 * dtzWill is hoping someone will do it for him and just tell him what to implement
Aug 19 18:39:47 <dtzWill> well that's not really true, but lack of good ideas on that front is what's stalling support there
Aug 19 18:40:18 <oilsworkn> if anyone else wants to try out hte irccloud beta let me know
Aug 19 18:40:19 <elpollodiablo1> does X recognize triple click?
Aug 19 18:41:35 <elpollodiablo1> dtzWill: I understand right now I am just trying to think through it and read up on the capabilities of X mouse configurations.
Aug 19 18:42:10 <PuffTheMagic> should take advantage of multi input X
Aug 19 18:42:42 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: do any apps support that?
Aug 19 18:43:38 <PuffTheMagic> you guys were talking about introducing things like double click into the X apps we run on the touchpad right?
Aug 19 18:43:51 <dtzWill> i know there was a multi-pointer X a while back that iirc was a POS-- i think it just kept track of 'multiple' mice and warped the cursor around really fast, drawing it in different colors to indicate each cursor lol
Aug 19 18:43:53 <PuffTheMagic> it would be easy to make 2 finger taps act like a double tap
Aug 19 18:43:57 <PuffTheMagic> or something like that
Aug 19 18:43:59 <dtzWill> cute idea, but didn't woork
Aug 19 18:44:09 <dtzWill> PuffTheMagic: hmm. what's wrong with...actually double-clicking?
Aug 19 18:44:51 <PuffTheMagic> multi pointer X didnt die
Aug 19 18:44:51 <PuffTheMagic> at least not to my knowledge
Aug 19 18:45:04 <PuffTheMagic> i thought there were actually multiple mice
Aug 19 18:45:23 <PuffTheMagic> dtzWill: idk, i figured that would have been done already
Aug 19 18:45:28 <PuffTheMagic> so i since its being talked about i thought there was some issue with that
Aug 19 18:45:53 <dtzWill> i'm unclear that double-click doesn't work--but i don't think i've tried it myself
Aug 19 18:46:45 <elpollodiablo1> any idea if  X and TP can recognize two finger taps different then single finger tap?
Aug 19 18:47:13 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: of course, but that's something i'd add--but should be straightforward
Aug 19 18:47:17 <dtzWill> -ish
Aug 19 18:47:17 <dtzWill> lol
Aug 19 18:47:25 <elpollodiablo1> lol
Aug 19 18:47:38 <elpollodiablo1> I dont want to make you do to much work if there is an alternative for it
Aug 19 18:47:58 <elpollodiablo1> just throwing out ideas
Aug 19 18:51:39 * dtzWill nods, appreciated! :)
Aug 19 18:51:59 <dtzWill> sorry that i'm not very good at breaking off pieces for others to help with, might speak to my state of organization ;)
Aug 19 18:56:22 <elpollodiablo1> double click works just incase that was in question
Aug 19 18:58:50 <elpollodiablo1> it is all good but if I can get it working for my own personal needs I will, but it will probably be kind of ugly and without input of user concern.
Aug 19 19:07:24 <dtzWill> honestly that might be the best way--just throw something together and let users suggest improvements
Aug 19 19:07:56 <dtzWill> people don't seem more inclined to offer ideas/suggestions/creative solutions to something semi-broken than something non-existant
Aug 19 19:08:09 <dtzWill> also that could expose what I think the main ideas/possibilities are
Aug 19 19:08:21 <dtzWill> double-tap is a good one, hold+click can be useful
Aug 19 19:08:36 <dtzWill> might be worth just looking how misc ipad apps (or even touchpad vnc/remote clients?) handle things and mimic it
Aug 19 19:08:57 <dtzWill> might wanna add a dedicated modifier/extra keys toolbar
Aug 19 19:15:42 <elpollodiablo1> I definatly think a dedicated modifier/extra key toolbar is a definate
Aug 19 19:32:35 <scoutcamper> dtzWill, i was thinking, in xterm, the XS keyboard leaves a gap before x-term displays text, why not place a toolbar there with ctrl and other "special" keys there
Aug 19 19:36:33 <dtzWill> scoutcamper: indeed, i'll probably get resizing working as i can
Aug 19 19:36:50 <dtzWill> and add some..option..or something.. that pins a dedicated little toolbar of sorts above the keyboard
Aug 19 19:37:14 <dtzWill> outsanding issues on that front are lame things that shouldn't be issues (not creating the toolbar/tying it to generate the necesssary events--i think that should be straightforward)
Aug 19 19:37:22 <dtzWill> like "is the keyboard open atm?" "what size is it?"
Aug 19 19:38:26 <elpollodiablo1> currently there is not way to hide the keyboard correct?
Aug 19 19:43:10 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: not exposed to the user no
Aug 19 19:43:15 <dtzWill> but i can programatiically do so
Aug 19 19:43:53 <dtzWill> wonder if i solve the "idk what state it's in" problem with liberal setKeyboardState calls
Aug 19 19:43:58 <dtzWill> one on startup, and any other time i'm unsure
Aug 19 19:44:03 <dtzWill> too bad i can't do anything about the size though
Aug 19 19:44:19 <dtzWill> which is a PITA b/c that makes sizing the undlerying X kinda difficult, esp if i wanna float a toolbar above the keyboard
Aug 19 19:44:34 <dtzWill> don't like forcing everyone to use XS (but like it as a default since it maximizes the screen space)
Aug 19 19:45:07 <elpollodiablo1> cant you just have the keyboard over lap the X stuff?
Aug 19 19:45:18 <elpollodiablo1> no I guess that wouldnt work
Aug 19 19:45:48 <elpollodiablo1> if you can show and hide the keyboard it might work, maybe not most user efficient
Aug 19 19:53:52 <dtzWill> yeah, the user efficient is the issue.
Aug 19 19:54:12 <dtzWill> maybe the answer is force a size, OR let the user toggle it open/closed to overlay
Aug 19 19:54:32 <dtzWill> but for any significant amount of typing, having half the screen covered with a keyboard is.. not the best.
Aug 19 20:02:00 <elpollodiablo1> I agree I use XS for my keyboard so it isnt much of an issue for me
Aug 19 20:09:10 <elpollodiablo1> dtzWill: do you have keypress debug built into xserver?
Aug 19 20:10:14 <elpollodiablo1> I believe the keyboard button send a keycode and I was thinking of using that hide and show similar to how webos does
Aug 19 20:10:50 <dtzWill> i do, but it requires recompiling since i didn't wanna spam logs of innocient users :)
Aug 19 20:11:09 <dtzWill> the ekbyoard button sends some DISMISS event, i forget the exact mechanism
Aug 19 20:11:17 <dtzWill> either a special SDL_Event type, or a key type
Aug 19 20:11:21 <dtzWill> and yeah we can toggle that that way
Aug 19 20:32:34 <elpollodiablo1> dtzWill: right now it seems you handle keys through xkb by sending the raw unicode to of each key. for the disable of virtual keyboard I think that code would have to be handled in sdl.c
Aug 19 20:33:46 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: yes :). there is zero issue how to do it (doing so is a supported feature of the PDK), i just haven't done so yet sorry :(
Aug 19 20:34:00 <dtzWill> for reasons like "okay it's dismissed now, great. how do you open it again?"
Aug 19 20:34:27 <dtzWill> "should i add a 'open keyboard' overaly? some kind of swipe (can't use up from bottom since that'll send X to card mode...)?"
Aug 19 20:34:35 <elpollodiablo1> oh yeah I didnt think thought that.
Aug 19 20:34:46 <elpollodiablo1> probably an open keyboard overlay similar to how the emulator does it
Aug 19 20:34:53 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: but ty for being so proactive about looking into it, appreciate it :)
Aug 19 20:35:09 <dtzWill> elpollodiablo1: haven't seen that, haven't played with emulator much. do you have a link/can you describe what you mean?
Aug 19 20:35:13 <elpollodiablo1> I was going to do some of that coding since it is fairly easy
Aug 19 20:35:39 <elpollodiablo1> if you open a mojo app on the TP it has the little kb bottom at the bottom roght
Aug 19 20:35:42 <elpollodiablo1> right*
Aug 19 20:35:52 <elpollodiablo1> that is used to open and close the keyboard
Aug 19 20:36:58 <elpollodiablo1> that was my idea for opening once closed.
Aug 19 20:38:12 <dtzWill> i actually don't have my tp wit me, but i'll take a look, that sounds good.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 20 02:59:56 2011