**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 20 02:59:57 2011 Oct 20 06:22:01 hiya dtzWill how goes it? Oct 20 06:22:57 ka6sox: alright. been working nonstop on a deadline and some soul-consuming homework, taking a webos break for sanity Oct 20 06:23:02 ka6sox: yourself? :) Oct 20 06:24:25 dtzWill, same here....been running around too much for work. Oct 20 06:26:00 ahhhh where did the xserver git repo goooo xD Oct 20 06:26:12 say what? Oct 20 06:26:12 ah, xsdl.git Oct 20 06:26:17 aha Oct 20 06:26:18 :D Oct 20 06:26:19 * dtzWill rewrites his git remotes Oct 20 06:26:29 we renamed it a while ago and i never updated my local trees Oct 20 06:26:31 and so i'm trying to push Oct 20 06:26:36 and it was getting grumpy Oct 20 06:26:36 :) Oct 20 06:28:52 that would explain it. Oct 20 07:49:21 rwhitby, pushed changes to fix options in tailor that are not available in webOS Oct 20 07:50:13 ok Oct 20 07:50:36 and I ran these scripts on my own devices. Oct 20 07:51:22 I am working on traps now to get us out of trouble. Oct 20 07:51:38 and setting breakpoints for re-entry. Oct 20 07:53:22 I was going to create a Lockfile so the UI could see that we were in the middle of a resize Oct 20 07:53:32 upon re-entry. Oct 20 07:54:32 and retry from the point where it stopped (along with a status file) Oct 20 07:58:05 can the JS just watch the statusfile instead of looking @ individual scripts? Oct 20 07:58:26 that way it can easily find its place again (and only have 1 place to look) Oct 20 10:00:31 dtzWill, we need the source or at least a makefile with where to get the source in it for x11/xterm please. Oct 20 10:01:29 ka6sox: widk Oct 20 10:01:39 built in widk, auto-commits the binaries to that git repo Oct 20 10:01:52 it's semi-broken right now? but it's reproducible Oct 20 10:01:55 okay but how is someone going to recreate that? Oct 20 10:02:02 idk rwhitby did one time Oct 20 10:02:11 alright lemme take a step back Oct 20 10:02:15 what do you suggset? :) Oct 20 10:02:36 dunno, I just need some way to figure out what we need to reproduce it :D Oct 20 10:03:02 maybe its in the widk instructions . Oct 20 10:04:09 ka6sox: http://git.webos-internals.org/preware/cross-compile/tree/packages/x/xterm/Makefile Oct 20 10:04:19 aha! Oct 20 10:04:23 wrong place. Oct 20 10:04:27 my bad. Oct 20 10:04:29 http://git.webos-internals.org/preware/cross-compile/tree/packages/x/xterm-package/Makefile packages it, but it's slightly broken atm Oct 20 10:04:42 (but does document what i used to do, and what i do by hand these days) Oct 20 10:04:49 just haven't fix a few details Oct 20 10:06:20 dtzWill, np...thats what I was looking for. Oct 20 10:06:35 we have a dev who needs how to do that for a new app. Oct 20 10:07:06 ah. it might not be the best.. uh..role model >_> Oct 20 10:07:14 he he Oct 20 10:07:19 it used to be? but it got bastardized 2x and i just haven't hard the time/heart to clean it up Oct 20 10:07:28 okay he is building an x11/tigervnc Oct 20 10:07:36 ah, kik Oct 20 10:07:37 great Oct 20 10:07:44 and it will use xsdl and xecutah Oct 20 10:07:45 yeah just ignore the xterm-package stuff Oct 20 10:07:51 not very useful, probably Oct 20 10:08:17 at some point we should solve that problem--how to package apps with non-trivial library dependencies that we ship with it Oct 20 10:08:55 we need to make the libs separate packages usually. Oct 20 10:09:06 but building/packaging those is a PITA Oct 20 10:09:22 unless we create a meta-package that builds all the deps. Oct 20 10:09:30 and packages them up in 1 ball. Oct 20 10:11:14 so sb2 can stage all the deps right? before you build the main attraction? Oct 20 10:14:06 well more or less Oct 20 10:14:11 small issue is that if these apps are jailed Oct 20 10:14:30 they might need to be staged differently--not all libraries/resources/applications are relocatable like that Oct 20 10:14:38 right Oct 20 10:14:54 are we supporting jailed xterm or jailed xsdl? Oct 20 10:15:20 well they're engineered so the could be Oct 20 10:15:35 okay but for now we are not doing that right? Oct 20 10:15:43 xsdl is, actually, i think. Oct 20 10:15:51 hmmm Oct 20 10:15:52 xterm would be except it needs a tty and that's not in the jail Oct 20 10:16:01 right Oct 20 10:16:02 okay Oct 20 10:16:13 so what xsdl's are we using that for...like games? Oct 20 10:16:17 xserver doesn't need xecutah to run, it's just more convenient to do so, dodges a few issues with domain sockets in /tmp across jails Oct 20 10:16:31 right Oct 20 10:16:41 oh well i liked the jail idea if for no other reason than it was app catalog friendly Oct 20 10:17:02 okay, dunno about the future of app catalog ATP.... Oct 20 10:17:33 I thought you whitelisted which libs were supported in jails and symlinked them? Oct 20 10:17:45 oh Oct 20 10:17:52 i see. Oct 20 10:17:59 i ship libs with the app Oct 20 10:18:00 in the jail Oct 20 10:18:07 so they're duplicated, but that seemed a necessary evil Oct 20 10:18:18 why not symlink them in Oct 20 10:18:26 into the "jail" Oct 20 10:18:35 anyway presently we just say skip jails altogether and for example xserver ships with the xlib stuff taht xterm needs Oct 20 10:18:36 they would be "whitelisted" Oct 20 10:18:44 and xterm expects it there Oct 20 10:18:48 ka6sox: you mean define a new custom jail Oct 20 10:18:53 yes Oct 20 10:18:56 to retain security but give us our desired functionality? Oct 20 10:19:00 yes Oct 20 10:19:10 that could absolutely work but has an engineering cost that no one's been motivaed to tackle yet Oct 20 10:19:15 okay Oct 20 10:19:16 aka "no good reason" Oct 20 10:19:17 :) Oct 20 10:19:19 right Oct 20 10:19:38 which xapps are using jails currently? Oct 20 10:19:48 things like games? Oct 20 10:20:08 there are no xapps atm afaik Oct 20 10:20:13 there's the xserver Oct 20 10:20:15 and xterm Oct 20 10:20:24 then there's the chroots, which i knw you're familiar wth Oct 20 10:20:33 there are XApps currently in chroots Oct 20 10:20:44 and the xapps work that are wrappers to chroot instalatoin/launching Oct 20 10:20:45 but they are kind of jailed too. Oct 20 10:21:10 well...its really no different than you launching xterm Oct 20 10:21:16 just a different location. Oct 20 10:21:28 i, uh, sure. Oct 20 10:21:36 except xterm package has everything it needs to run Oct 20 10:21:49 you mean in the rootfs? Oct 20 10:21:50 the chroot counts on a separate package, namely the chroot, and that's not jail-compat in the current model Oct 20 10:21:57 or in cryptofs? or where/ Oct 20 10:21:59 ? Oct 20 10:22:09 but anyway i dont mean to split hairs, i really don't. Oct 20 10:22:17 what are you trying to do/solve/investigate? Oct 20 10:22:19 no no...I am trying to understand. Oct 20 10:22:54 make it so we can not have you have to manually package up things like xterm/xlibs Oct 20 10:23:07 okay, great. Oct 20 10:23:12 thank you Oct 20 10:23:27 everything makes more sense now, sorry if i was being dense Oct 20 10:23:48 hmm, idk. unfortunateyl i have to finish this dang assignment and such and can't give this the focus/thought it deserves Oct 20 10:23:56 then don't Oct 20 10:24:01 it will be here when you are ready. Oct 20 10:24:11 i won't, i'm just trying to let you know in a semi-tactful manner :3 Oct 20 10:24:12 it goes in spurts. Oct 20 10:24:14 but ty sir Oct 20 10:24:15 hehe it really does Oct 20 10:24:42 like making xecutah/x-server handle multiple cards. Oct 20 10:24:51 which is a BIG win for XApps. Oct 20 10:25:27 means the next app (once I sort out dwm) will be able to be used for ssl cert secure browsing Oct 20 10:26:06 but it means I have to figure out how to mod dwm's config @ compile time to create the kiosk version I need. Oct 20 10:26:14 and compile it Oct 20 10:26:25 probably using dwm and then insert it into the chroot. Oct 20 10:26:34 s/dwm/widk Oct 20 10:26:58 so all this has been VERY educational to me. Oct 20 10:33:47 why insert it into the chroot Oct 20 10:33:48 ? Oct 20 10:33:57 why not run it outside and run it like xterm Oct 20 10:33:58 ? Oct 20 10:34:14 best answer i see on that front is "Because it has complicated depenencies i don't want to be responsible for" which is rather fair Oct 20 10:34:23 (and is why we don't already ship a wm of any kind) Oct 20 10:34:28 I'm reading the deps now Oct 20 10:34:37 this is a simple one... Oct 20 10:34:42 but that being said. Oct 20 10:34:52 its probably still way above my paygrade :D Oct 20 10:35:02 you get paid?! Oct 20 10:35:03 ;) Oct 20 10:36:37 uh oh.... Oct 20 10:36:41 xinerama.... Oct 20 10:36:51 is that not in widk? Oct 20 10:37:22 mebbe it is...I dunno Oct 20 10:37:25 http://hg.suckless.org/dwm/file/dd74622a4785/config.mk Oct 20 10:37:39 looks like those are the deps. Oct 20 10:37:41 hmm, maybe not. might've been in the full-xserver branch Oct 20 10:37:43 and I don't know our paths. Oct 20 10:37:55 oh Oct 20 10:38:06 just leave comment out the XINERAMAFLAGS line Oct 20 10:38:09 and maybe XINERAMALIBS Oct 20 10:38:24 like X11LIB and X11LIB Oct 20 10:38:27 -DXINERAMA is the same as "#define XINERAMA" somewhere--and controls things like #ifdef XINERAMA in their code Oct 20 10:38:30 ours may not be there. Oct 20 10:38:53 so in theory, if they did things right, dropping the -DXINERAMA from your compiler flags should build dwm w/o xinerama support Oct 20 10:38:57 which is what we want Oct 20 10:39:20 kk Oct 20 10:39:32 its a small tree Oct 20 10:39:45 but I still would probably need to stage the includes and libs first. Oct 20 10:40:26 and remove the -Dxinerama stuff. Oct 20 10:41:23 since I work for "free" its absolutely above my paygrade :D Oct 20 10:44:57 asking a guy who says he got it running how he did it. Oct 20 10:57:33 ka6sox: want some help? :) Oct 20 10:57:55 sure, but not till your project is done Oct 20 10:58:00 sokay Oct 20 10:58:09 I am asking him how he did it. Oct 20 10:58:10 already staged it into WIDK :3 Oct 20 10:58:14 and have a working dwm Oct 20 10:58:15 >_> Oct 20 10:58:21 orly? Oct 20 10:58:23 dang Oct 20 10:58:23 i can't help myself Oct 20 10:58:26 it's a compulsion Oct 20 10:58:31 okay so its DONE? Oct 20 10:58:35 uh Oct 20 10:58:37 i think so Oct 20 10:58:45 tiny leg work to wrap it with a launcher script and appinfo Oct 20 10:58:48 as in if I had a dwm repo to push it to you could put it there? Oct 20 10:58:49 build as for building a working dwm Oct 20 10:59:01 that you can DISPLAY=:0.0 ./dwm Oct 20 10:59:02 and away you go Oct 20 10:59:17 okay this is getting "fun" :D Oct 20 10:59:24 * dtzWill has a passion for build systems Oct 20 10:59:27 I will need to work on config.h Oct 20 10:59:29 for better or for worse hehe Oct 20 10:59:34 ah Oct 20 10:59:41 to get it setup the correct way Oct 20 10:59:44 i had the widk just pulling from raw source Oct 20 10:59:44 but this is HUGE. Oct 20 10:59:48 if you put the dwm stuff in a git repo Oct 20 10:59:55 errr Oct 20 10:59:55 hmm Oct 20 10:59:56 nvm Oct 20 11:00:04 was gonna say i could have build.git build it for us Oct 20 11:00:10 but it doesn't have widk's staged goodness Oct 20 11:00:27 no I mean like you are doing for xterm Oct 20 11:00:34 push binaries up there. Oct 20 11:00:39 and get them packaged. Oct 20 11:00:41 yeppers Oct 20 11:02:00 http://git.webos-internals.org/preware/cross-compile/tree/packages/x/dwm fwiw Oct 20 11:02:12 * ka6sox falls over. Oct 20 11:02:14 http://www.eridani.co.uk/webos/tmp/ Oct 20 11:02:16 this is his Oct 20 11:02:28 with source/configs and binaries. Oct 20 11:03:42 well for completeness w.r.t the dwm in WIDK, here's the resulting binary: http://ompldr.org/vYXc4dg Oct 20 11:04:30 ka6sox: looks like taht's meant to be built on-device from within a chroot or similar? Oct 20 11:04:46 he says pdk arm compiler Oct 20 11:05:09 well it expects libX11 from somewhere, and that's not part of the pdk :) Oct 20 11:05:18 No.. for my ARM builds I have a cross-compile area /usr/arm/{bin,lib}, bin is symlinked to the compilers from the PDK, lib are copies of the extra libs from the Xserver package. So, all I do for ARM builds is to put /usr/arm/bin at the start of my path, so gcc then compiles ARM instead of x86 stuff. (I'm running on Fedora 14) Oct 20 11:05:20 looks like he added /usr/arm/lib Oct 20 11:05:26 ah Oct 20 11:05:29 lib are copies Oct 20 11:05:29 hahah Oct 20 11:05:37 "staged" Oct 20 11:05:56 also the -Wl,-rpath stuff means that the dwm from WIDK/ompload above 'know' to use the libraries from an installed xserver package Oct 20 11:06:05 meaning drop that in an ipk with a script and you're good Oct 20 11:06:23 but i'm not sure if that fits your goals or not Oct 20 11:06:33 anyway 5 min of my time, maybe it helps maybe it doesn't hehe Oct 20 11:06:42 it does Oct 20 11:07:18 its headed in the right direction and now I just need to figure out how to get the correct config.h and config.mk (modified accordingly) to do this. Oct 20 11:07:44 i just put my custom config.mk in the WIDK and copy it into teh build dir Oct 20 11:07:50 no need to keep copy of all the dwm sources Oct 20 11:08:01 what kinds of changes are you wanting to do with conifg.h? Oct 20 11:08:06 I still am reading how to correctly setup config.h to have the apps I care about pre-configured. Oct 20 11:08:17 ahhh Oct 20 11:08:18 things like floating or not, and window sizes. Oct 20 11:08:24 different app per workspace/tag/whatever dwm calls them? Oct 20 11:08:27 * dtzWill nods Oct 20 11:08:44 so XApps can use those. Oct 20 11:09:15 solves the issue we are having with vkb(sizes) vs BT Keyboard. Oct 20 11:09:20 and going back and forth. Oct 20 11:09:30 well Oct 20 11:09:39 still need to teach X to do the randr stuff needed Oct 20 11:09:39 but Oct 20 11:09:40 the reservation space thingy. Oct 20 11:09:40 yes Oct 20 11:09:41 absolutely Oct 20 11:09:55 wm is required to make that non-fail Oct 20 11:10:01 right Oct 20 11:10:06 essential piece, etc Oct 20 11:10:24 but I didn't want the weight of a unity or kde or gnome Oct 20 11:10:33 this is like 53k compiled Oct 20 11:10:45 very much with you Oct 20 11:10:58 those wiould be terrible Oct 20 11:11:03 indeed. Oct 20 11:11:10 in fact, they are terrible, as anyone with apt-get and free time can tell you ;) xD Oct 20 11:11:20 even e17 (which I love) is not appropriate for this app. Oct 20 11:11:24 tried staging lxde previously, but gave up due to bad build system Oct 20 11:11:36 and matchbox..i don't like :) Oct 20 11:11:45 doesn't work well with touchscreens, etc Oct 20 11:11:53 never got into e17 although heard good things Oct 20 11:12:13 essentially I hope to create single XApp/card thing using dwm to handle the resizing and scrollbar issues. Oct 20 11:12:37 so instead of starting xterm and then calling the app I would call dwm and then the app. Oct 20 11:13:20 oh and with the right configs it can understand vkb sizes too. Oct 20 11:15:12 anyways thats the goal and you just took a HUGE step towards making that a reality. Oct 20 11:17:37 hooray :D Oct 20 11:17:38 Much appreciated. Oct 20 11:17:49 well lmk if you need anything more--i realize the widk is a bit..opaque in some ways Oct 20 11:17:50 llo Oct 20 11:17:57 no kiding Oct 20 11:18:02 haha Oct 20 11:18:03 :3 Oct 20 11:18:21 I only can understand a bit about it in that we do qemu builds for OE. Oct 20 11:19:28 nah, widk has lots of good ideas and pieces Oct 20 11:19:32 but is just a mess atm Oct 20 11:19:42 I am not complaining Oct 20 11:19:43 not enough time/effort/justification to do it right, etc Oct 20 11:19:46 oh i know you're not :) Oct 20 11:19:54 just explaining regardless Oct 20 11:19:59 the last 2 times I tried it staged. Oct 20 11:20:17 and I wear the Dunce Cap on buildsystems. Oct 20 11:20:49 ie: If I can do it...then...its pretty good. Oct 20 11:21:23 widk is not a measure of anything other than tolerance for pain :P Oct 20 11:21:23 lol Oct 20 11:21:39 nah, it also does a /lot/ that's very hard ot maintain reliably Oct 20 11:21:50 shrug Oct 20 11:22:01 i rather like build systems, and that generally means i'm decent with them Oct 20 11:22:16 but more important means i fight through the lame parts since i somehow like them :P Oct 20 11:22:28 fun to create/provide frameworks other use to do cool things ^.^ Oct 20 11:22:42 although it's really sad how many software packages Oct 20 11:22:45 have terrrrible build systems Oct 20 11:22:46 -.- Oct 20 11:22:53 this dwm is a gating item to further development of XApps. Oct 20 11:24:16 :D Oct 20 11:25:22 since if we solve this for XApps then other apps in the chroot will be happy too with vkb resizing and bt usage. Oct 20 11:25:33 oh and xterm too! Oct 20 11:25:33 :D Oct 20 11:26:30 I need to figure out how to add a font size var into tweaks for xterm as my poor ancient eyes can barely see it. Oct 20 11:26:42 or use a non-bad font in general Oct 20 11:26:47 * dtzWill is somewhat picky about his console foints Oct 20 11:26:57 spend all day looking at'em and it matters, right? :) Oct 20 11:27:01 courier 14 :D Oct 20 11:29:09 thats another thing a wm can do Oct 20 11:29:39 I am thinking about adding ctrl+"+" to increase size and ctrl+"-" to reduce them. Oct 20 11:56:24 unless thats not the right solution...what is the x-windows screen res buttons? I can't remember. Oct 20 11:58:38 i'm unaware of any such thing, sorry :/ Oct 20 11:58:52 some compositing window manager might support 'zooming' in Oct 20 11:58:59 you can change system DPI Oct 20 11:59:22 yes, they do...but I can't remember the keysequence Oct 20 11:59:33 dtzWill, what is the default font/size on xterm? Oct 20 12:01:06 I need a magnifier to use it. Oct 20 12:01:14 (or my face in the tp's screen) Oct 20 12:04:43 ka6sox: idk, i have no idea where it gets the ability to render characters from Oct 20 12:05:00 which i realize sounds worthless, but i simply have no idea other than it does, somehow. Oct 20 12:05:06 and that's been enough thus far. Oct 20 12:05:19 pretty sure proper font support requires a fair deal of infrastructure not there yet Oct 20 12:05:28 okay I remember having a convo about this... Oct 20 12:05:28 if nothing else some font resource path that Xsdl knows about... Oct 20 12:05:39 I was afraid we needed font manglement Oct 20 12:06:03 its probably the "system font" Oct 20 12:06:37 man xterm suggset '-fs 14' might work... Oct 20 12:07:08 * ka6sox adds that to his xterm magic invocation. Oct 20 12:07:27 does not work, sorry Oct 20 12:07:33 waaaaah Oct 20 12:07:35 okay Oct 20 12:07:53 if it was then it would be tweaks or patch compatible. Oct 20 12:08:16 pretty sure we have a fairly minimal xterm Oct 20 12:09:17 * ka6sox should look to see if our X11 libs are where they normally are or somewhere else. Oct 20 12:11:12 ka6sox: they're in ${XSERVER_APPDIR}/xlib Oct 20 12:11:18 so not at all where 'normal' Oct 20 12:11:18 lol Oct 20 12:11:25 since that means they're part of a package Oct 20 12:11:43 ya,kind of like optware. Oct 20 12:13:30 now I understand what you were saying about adding the deps to the jail. Oct 20 12:15:28 ka6sox: -fa courier Oct 20 12:15:29 awwww yeah Oct 20 12:15:33 i might add that everywhere Oct 20 12:15:42 or maybe see what fonts are avail and twekify it Oct 20 12:15:48 :D Oct 20 12:15:57 and -fs works once you do that Oct 20 12:16:02 -fa courer -fs 24 Oct 20 12:16:02 etc Oct 20 12:16:03 or let someone with more time on their hands. Oct 20 12:16:06 w00t! Oct 20 12:16:12 thats enough for me to start. Oct 20 12:16:56 well Oct 20 12:16:57 hmm Oct 20 12:17:03 i tried courier, it does *something* Oct 20 12:17:05 but that's not courier Oct 20 12:17:06 ahha Oct 20 12:17:42 well..if its BIGGER that is a start. Oct 20 12:17:59 it is. Oct 20 12:19:02 http://ompldr.org/vYXc5ZA Oct 20 12:19:12 result of 'xlsfonts', which i think asks x server for fonts it knows about Oct 20 12:19:19 two things, this means there IS font support Oct 20 12:19:25 i assume it just had some bulitin fallback basic thing Oct 20 12:19:35 font support means we can add more fonts, add to the fontpath, etc Oct 20 12:21:55 LOL I can't get the font to change at all Oct 20 12:22:10 you'd imagine i'd at least be able to tell xterm to use the font it's using 'now', the tiny typical xterm one Oct 20 12:22:20 and whatever font it grabs when i run 'xterm -fa gibblygook' Oct 20 12:22:21 lol Oct 20 12:22:23 do you know whats its name is? Oct 20 12:23:26 ah, -fa forces freetype fonts Oct 20 12:23:30 and there is probably just the one Oct 20 12:23:51 okay so we need to add more freetype fonts then.... Oct 20 12:23:58 haha Oct 20 12:24:46 okay Oct 20 12:24:48 /usr/share/fonts Oct 20 12:24:50 has fonts Oct 20 12:25:07 and we have more packaged (and presmably ability to do so for wahtever fonts we want) already in preware Oct 20 12:25:13 -fa cour Oct 20 12:25:20 I provide the best distractions :D Oct 20 12:25:25 yeah this is way more fun Oct 20 12:25:26 :D Oct 20 12:25:33 and i think i can use the break Oct 20 12:26:02 this is the stuff that takes it from useful to WOW! this is really useful. Oct 20 12:26:28 bah i'm still not specifying the fonts correctly, grumble grumble Oct 20 12:27:13 oh well, whatever i'm doing changes the font Oct 20 12:27:20 to a much nicer antialiased font Oct 20 12:27:23 that we can control the size of Oct 20 12:28:08 -fa gobbledygook -fs 40,000? Oct 20 12:28:53 lolol Oct 20 12:29:12 black screen here Oct 20 12:29:12 ;) Oct 20 12:30:02 FTW! Oct 20 12:31:18 yeah Oct 20 12:31:23 i like this font waayy better Oct 20 12:31:29 might just find a way to set it and push it in next update Oct 20 12:31:43 tweaksifying font size is nice Oct 20 12:32:17 YES Oct 20 12:32:18 i changed Oct 20 12:32:19 the font Oct 20 12:32:21 it was terrible Oct 20 12:32:22 but worked Oct 20 12:32:24 -fn cursor Oct 20 12:32:25 rofl Oct 20 12:33:18 anyway, will sort this out later. Oct 20 12:33:18 yay Oct 20 12:33:43 okay what was the font and size you said were "not courier but nice and big"? Oct 20 12:33:48 oh Oct 20 12:33:49 just Oct 20 12:33:52 -fa dafasf Oct 20 12:33:59 lol Oct 20 12:33:59 :/ Oct 20 12:34:13 idk what font that is, but all i can do to change things is with -fa arial, but that has spacing issues Oct 20 12:34:23 it always has Oct 20 12:34:30 its kerning sucks. Oct 20 12:35:04 ah Oct 20 12:35:05 well okay then Oct 20 12:35:54 * dtzWill makes use of dwm to manage comparing fonts Oct 20 12:36:11 okay let me go ahead and try: -fa dfafasf Oct 20 12:36:17