**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 05 02:59:57 2008 Nov 05 11:06:20 Is there any way to identify if the phone is currently using a 3G network as opposed to a 2G network? Nov 05 11:54:14 tomgibara, http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/TelephonyManager.html Nov 05 11:55:05 NETWORK_TYPE_EDGE, NETWORK_TYPE_GPRS, NETWORK_TYPE_UMTS... is it that what you are looking for? Nov 05 11:55:56 Thanks, I think that looks like it. Nov 05 11:56:25 I'd been looking at ConnectivityManager which only distinguishes between WIFI and MOBILE. Nov 05 11:57:37 np :) Nov 05 14:37:18 can someone confirm whether or not an actual android device supports JKS? Nov 05 14:37:25 and also whether it supports BKS? Nov 05 15:06:41 I have no idea what these acronyms are, but I can test things on my device for you. Nov 05 15:27:05 vol: JKS - java keystore Nov 05 15:27:11 BKS - bouncycastle keystore Nov 05 15:27:20 bouncyca... what? Nov 05 15:27:27 they are keystore formats. unfortunately, the emulator doesn't support JKS, which is the standard java keystore format. Nov 05 15:27:47 aha. Nov 05 15:27:48 http://www.bouncycastle.org/ Nov 05 15:29:13 anyway, again, I can test things for you, or look them up on the device if you tell me where to look. Nov 05 15:29:56 vol: thanks for the offer, but it isn't all that simple to test that. Nov 05 15:35:54 Where should i start whit android programming? Nov 05 15:36:45 at the start? Nov 05 15:38:08 AxeFestis: what is your question exactly? Nov 05 15:39:10 AxeFestis: probably with the tutorials Nov 05 15:39:28 http://code.google.com/android/intro/index.html Nov 05 15:39:44 have you programmed before? Do you know Java? Nov 05 15:40:43 Well, I knowe very basics of several languages but never really got in to it. Nov 05 15:41:49 step 1: learn java Nov 05 15:42:30 ok Nov 05 15:42:34 java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/ Nov 05 15:42:49 sun's java tutorials are a very good way to learn java Nov 05 15:42:57 step 2: download android SDK, go through android samples, write killer app, profit Nov 05 15:43:00 but once you muddle your way into OO you can probably start hacking together simple android apps Nov 05 15:43:25 just remember that if you're developing on windows, you need to install a USB driver to put apps on your device. Nov 05 15:43:43 thanks, I am using Ubuntu Nov 05 15:44:16 ok, then you're fine. You'll have to start the adb server as root, though, to interact with an actual device, or it won't be listed Nov 05 15:44:16 and I live in sweden so i don't got a g1 yet :( Nov 05 15:44:36 don't worry, you are long way before getting to that point. Nov 05 15:44:42 and with the android SDK you get an emulator Nov 05 15:44:44 anyway Nov 05 16:40:03 Anyone knows if TomGibara is still working on MoseyCode ? Nov 05 17:24:17 morning Nov 05 17:24:26 good morning Nov 05 17:29:55 hey michael Nov 05 17:31:08 how's it going? Nov 05 17:33:03 good, working on the kernel Nov 05 17:33:08 you? Nov 05 18:16:55 SanMehat: working on an irc client for android Nov 05 18:19:47 What / Where is the Media player the webkit browser uses on the emulater when you give webkit a url of an mp4? Nov 05 18:25:16 famast: that goes to the music player. Nov 05 18:40:04 michaelnovakjr: nice :) me want Nov 05 18:40:14 :) Nov 05 19:42:11 thanks jbq Nov 05 20:29:50 bigger than i thought it would be in here :) Nov 05 20:30:00 :) Nov 05 20:31:14 how is mail coming along? Nov 05 20:31:43 good, although i did pause dev for a shortwhile to fix some new bugs i found in five Nov 05 20:32:12 i started using five on a daily basis now so im fixing things as they bother me :) Nov 05 20:32:36 i just wish i had more time to dev...*sigh* Nov 05 20:36:34 jasta: what are you doing with mail? Nov 05 20:36:48 imap idle Nov 05 20:37:17 im done with the feature itself, but im doing major surgery to make the app use the feature optimally Nov 05 20:38:01 ill probably do other random hacking when im done now that im so familiar with the code Nov 05 20:38:44 Cool, I am looking to send mail with attachments from my app. I was looking for an app with an Intent to send the mail. If I understand correctly it seems like I could use the existing mail app to send out mail from my app? Nov 05 20:40:33 Looked through the mail app last night and did not see a way to send mail via the existing mail app. Also I can't seem to find a mime message builder other than using some outside lib or pulling large amounts of code into my project. Nov 05 20:42:30 not sure about that off the top of my head Nov 05 20:42:54 the issue is that the intent woukld need to have general android support, not just in email or gmail Nov 05 20:43:06 so if its not already defined youre kind of sol Nov 05 20:43:47 look through all intents that email handles for an idea tho Nov 05 20:44:02 (wow im getting fast typing on the g1) Nov 05 20:46:52 Thanks, thats what my poking around has found. Nov 05 21:03:32 jasta, any releases for Five yet? Nov 05 21:06:18 no, im targetting feb for an official release Nov 05 21:08:05 feb for an update fo the email app? Nov 05 21:08:12 *groan* Nov 05 21:09:16 jasta, too bad Nov 05 21:10:11 uhm, languish, he asked me about five not email Nov 05 21:10:38 ahh my bad. I'll go back to my hole now. Nov 05 21:10:54 pjv: well, it is what it is. i did not develop agressively while google screwed around with the sdk and product details Nov 05 21:11:15 ofcourse, me too Nov 05 21:11:54 I developed an app very early on (m3 or what was it again) but that was for a private purpose anyway Nov 05 21:11:57 but regardless i did put a lot of energy into making it work for my own benefit Nov 05 21:11:59 so I dropped that Nov 05 21:12:11 as in, i wanted to use five, so i made it usable :) Nov 05 21:12:13 and now I'm taking my time to develop some good apps on 1.0_r1 Nov 05 21:12:40 do you guys know if there is an android irc channel that's not logged? Nov 05 21:12:55 * vol listens in intently Nov 05 21:12:59 tell me more about your apps, pjv Nov 05 21:13:44 they are open source and totally public on launchpad, so if you are really interested you can check them out there Nov 05 21:14:15 the reason you haven't heard about them yet is that they are only very basically finished so far (hey, it's my spare time ;-)) Nov 05 21:14:45 well, one has an alpha release: https://launchpad.net/androidsfortune Nov 05 21:15:26 ha Nov 05 21:15:40 cute idea, don't imagine it'd be too hard Nov 05 21:15:45 this is just fortune for unix right? Nov 05 21:16:03 exactly, I wanted to get something out the door mostly Nov 05 21:16:06 vol right Nov 05 21:17:15 at the moment it's just a stepping stone, or a stub for new development or ideas Nov 05 21:17:34 alright Nov 05 21:17:35 but it does work Nov 05 21:17:44 is it a widget, or a standalone app? Nov 05 21:17:50 doesn't need to do a great deal of stuff, but... Nov 05 21:18:26 standalone, but also uses notifications, and has a bit more features than you might expect Nov 05 21:20:03 while I'm working on other apps, it's actually very nice to ahve an occasioanl fortune cookie popup to bring some diversion :-) Nov 05 21:20:05 alright Nov 05 21:20:49 it spices up the emulator a bit Nov 05 21:24:56 vol, I welcome feedback btw, so if you have any... Nov 05 21:25:30 haven't tried it yet, sorry Nov 05 21:25:33 busy working Nov 05 21:25:36 sure Nov 05 21:42:06 Launchpad is actually quite crazy, Android's Fortune has been on there for a month, and it's already translated into Hungarian, and the best of all is ... I don't speak a word Hungarian Nov 05 21:43:27 you think it's hungarian Nov 05 21:44:56 hehe Nov 05 21:45:28 no no, it's actually hungarian, and perfectly usable, unless you are from Hungary ofcourse and say otherwise :-) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 05 22:48:18 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 05 22:48:39 2008 Nov 05 22:55:13 Blergh. Nov 05 22:55:21 So, who has experience debugging stacktraces? Nov 05 22:55:39 and by stacktraces I mean the piddly ones you get if your shared lib dies mysteriously Nov 05 22:59:41 nope sorry Nov 05 22:59:41 you mean using gdb on jni code? Nov 05 22:59:54 jasta: we can't actually get gdb to work ._. Nov 05 23:00:03 it blows past any breakpoint we set. Nov 05 23:00:08 but yeah Nov 05 23:00:09 you'd better figure out how. Nov 05 23:00:20 :\ thanks Nov 05 23:00:35 trying to debug native code without a debugger is just plain stupid Nov 05 23:00:38 anyway, when your stuff segfaults, a cruddy stacktrace appears on ddms Nov 05 23:00:43 so tackle that problem first, then you'll be able to fix this issue easily Nov 05 23:00:46 jasta: oh wow! Nov 05 23:00:46 Get used to printf. :) cross gdb's are hugely confusing. Nov 05 23:00:48 I never realized! Nov 05 23:00:55 debugging without a debugger? Nov 05 23:00:56 hard? Nov 05 23:00:57 shit man Nov 05 23:00:59 is there an easy way I can make an update() in a contentProvider take more values than it actually has table columns (I mean some of the values keys are not columns in the table) without it complaining? Nov 05 23:01:03 thanks for the enlightenment there Nov 05 23:01:18 Did we mention the part about native development not being officially supported? Just checking. :-) Nov 05 23:01:23 I mean we only glanced at the gdb docs when we did this but hey maybe we should write "gdb" on crayon too Nov 05 23:01:29 maybe then it'll work? Nov 05 23:01:33 fadden: yes, I know :) Nov 05 23:01:47 the annoying thing is that this works on the emulator, but not the device Nov 05 23:02:03 i don't think your attitude is appropriate, but i still recommend you read this: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jnidebug/index.html Nov 05 23:02:24 Remote gdb through adb does work, but it's a little wobbly sometimes. Nov 05 23:02:27 vol: see if you can enable cores on the phone. It probably works, I'd guess. Then you can pull it off and dissect it on the host. Or alternatively, look into catching SIGBUS and SIGSEGV and using the gcc built-ins to walk the stack; I forget the names of these, but played with them once and think they work. Nov 05 23:02:46 jasta: your attitude is "you're an idiot, why didn't you think of gdb!" when I've already tried and been unable to get gdb to work. When I tell you this you say "try harder, fuckup" Nov 05 23:02:56 It's not too useful unless you have copies of the relevant native libs with symbols in them. Nov 05 23:03:45 i also would recommend that you not involve Android if possible. is your JNI lib generic enough to run on another system? Nov 05 23:04:11 no, we haven't had to deal with jni before, so we're doing this for the first time. Nov 05 23:04:17 if so, you could develop a sophisticated test environment and debug on a native host. this would be much less work in the long run Nov 05 23:04:35 oh wait Nov 05 23:04:37 the shared lib, yes Nov 05 23:04:45 it runs on multiple mobile devices Nov 05 23:04:54 we've just never put it through jni before Nov 05 23:05:27 anyway, thanks for the url, I'll read through this Nov 05 23:06:01 vol: the info there is useful once you have GDB attached. Nov 05 23:06:16 sorry to be a dick, I'm just a little frazzled. Nov 05 23:07:41 I've just come off maintainance unix programming, hoping for a nice assignment, and then this stinky problem appears. Nov 05 23:08:05 FWIW, it's usually been my experience that stinky problems *are* the nice assignments. Nov 05 23:08:32 You're now the resident Android expert. This is not a bad thing. Nov 05 23:08:55 Or stinky in this sense. Think of it this way: IT wonks across the country are stuck writing hundred-entry test cases in VB.NET on a daily basis. You're doing embedded systems development in C on a cutting edge phone. Nov 05 23:09:05 andyross: Yeah, that's absolutely true. Nov 05 23:09:22 I was just hoping that I could do it on a slightly higher. Nov 05 23:09:27 slightly higher level Nov 05 23:10:20 andyross: stinky assignments are really stinky when you're under high pressure, or when there are too may variables that you don't control. Nov 05 23:10:37 jbq: I hear you :) Nov 05 23:10:53 Well, yeah. I was talking solely about the technical details. A bad work environment can turn anything stinky. Nov 05 23:11:30 I have great memories of some nasty debugging sessions... including a bug that I hunted for more than a year before I had a repro case, and then for a few more weeks before I had a fix (and it was an off-by-one). Nov 05 23:11:50 jbq: :-( Nov 05 23:11:59 jbq: /me hopes you did other things than hunt for that bug for the year. Nov 05 23:12:25 ttuttle: yeah - until we had a repro case, we also had a workaround, so I wasn't actively hunting it. Nov 05 23:12:31 jbq: ah Nov 05 23:13:53 the weeks of debugging were intense, though. The other memorable bugs I went against never lasted more than a week. Nov 05 23:17:30 I don't mind debugging, I just prefer doing it with, well, a debugger. Nov 05 23:42:11 well, time to head home Nov 05 23:42:17 thanks for the help and understanding Nov 06 00:41:27 what is layout-keysexposed and layout-keyshidden? Nov 06 00:45:23 it's a configuration qualifier for the resources Nov 06 00:45:53 if the g1 keyboard is opened it'll take resources with -keysexposed, if the keyboard is closed, it'll take keyshidden Nov 06 00:46:28 more info: http://code.google.com/android/devel/resources-i18n.html#AlternateResources Nov 06 01:02:21 xavd: thanks Nov 06 01:56:15 so can we expect the root to be patched? Nov 06 02:19:21 if i wanted a BroadcastReceiver which should only fire while my service is alive, would I not declare that receiver in my Manifest? Nov 06 02:19:30 and rather just register/unregister in the services create and destroy? Nov 06 02:21:10 just out of curiosity what does your BR do? Nov 06 02:21:30 Last time I looked BroadcastReceivers did not seem that useful due to scope issues. Nov 06 02:22:26 jasta, ? Nov 06 02:24:29 i receive changes to the network state from the connectivitymanager Nov 06 02:24:47 in particular, my playlistservice will listen for positive changes (we got connected) and restart paused downloads. Nov 06 02:25:05 when the playlistservice is not active (the user is not listening to music with five), there's no reason for five to care about changes in the network Nov 06 02:33:15 hmm that makes sense. well since services and receivers seem to have a peer relationship rather than parent/child in the manifest, id go with register/unregister. Nov 06 02:36:20 i just wasnt sure if there was some fancy way to enable/disable the receiver that ive declared **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 06 02:59:57 2008