**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 23 02:59:57 2008
Dec 23 04:22:03 <brocktice> works
Dec 23 04:22:09 <brocktice> oops
Dec 23 14:18:47 <vol> khert: look at Environment.getExternalStorageDirectory() for the SDCard location
Dec 23 14:18:57 <vol> and context.getFilesDir() for your app's private file dir
Dec 23 14:21:09 <blau-MikeDG> screen_on intent sucks sucks sucks
Dec 23 14:21:26 <blau-MikeDG> doesnt work when specified in manifest.xml, but works when you do ReigsterReceiver
Dec 23 14:35:42 <vol> huh?
Dec 23 14:36:07 <blau-MikeDG> android.intent.action.SCREEN_ON
Dec 23 14:36:27 <blau-MikeDG> a broadcast receiver for that won't work if you specify android.intent.action.SCREEN_ON as the action in a manifest.xml
Dec 23 14:36:51 <blau-MikeDG> but if you do context.registerReceiver() for that broadcast receiver and intent, it does work
Dec 23 14:38:32 <vol> ah
Dec 23 14:45:45 <tauno_> is it my applications exception  if the stacktrace in logcat does not contain a single class/method in it that belongs to my app?
Dec 23 14:46:23 <vol> is it possible that the stacktrace is just too long?
Dec 23 14:46:42 <vol> if the problem is repeatable, you might want to try running in debug, so you halt execution on the stacktrace and can see it
Dec 23 14:47:47 <tauno_> starts at dalvik.system.NativeStart.main(Native Method) and ends in android.view.WindowManagerImpl.findViewLocked(WindowManagerImpl.java:331) (java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: View not attached to window manager)
Dec 23 14:47:53 <tauno_> not reproducable
Dec 23 14:48:45 <tauno_> I'm sure it's my app but it's kind of hard to debug like this :(
Dec 23 14:58:16 <vol> interesting.
Dec 23 15:06:08 <sysrpl> hello
Dec 23 15:06:25 <sysrpl> hey uhm ... i had what i think is a pretty good app idea
Dec 23 15:06:31 <sysrpl> with a great way to make money
Dec 23 15:06:35 <blau-MikeDG> what is it
Dec 23 15:06:37 <Disconnect> tehn write it
Dec 23 15:06:42 <sysrpl> i might
Dec 23 15:06:44 <Disconnect> don't give it to blau, he writes a half dozen apps a day
Dec 23 15:06:45 <tauno_> yeas, then you have to tell us..
Dec 23 15:06:55 <sysrpl> it's a simple idea ... a pizza ordering app ... but with a twist
Dec 23 15:07:01 <Disconnect> ooh i love bread twists
Dec 23 15:07:04 <michaelnovakjr> like pineapple?
Dec 23 15:07:06 <blau-MikeDG> twisty bread!
Dec 23 15:07:16 <blau-MikeDG> it uses gps to tell them where to deliver!
Dec 23 15:07:24 <unix_lappy> sysrpl: we had this discussion with Pizza Hut @ AndroidDevCamp
Dec 23 15:07:50 <Disconnect> i'd go with dominos.. not that i like them more, but they are embracing the 'order anywhere' thing faster. can already order/reorder via sms
Dec 23 15:08:02 <unix_lappy> they are the gatekeepers, and their ROI on the app wouldnt justify initial expenditures.
Dec 23 15:08:08 <sysrpl> the twist is a couple of things ... 1) you show pizza ordering options available based on your location 2) you rank the deliciousness of the pizza and display a value based on price indicator
Dec 23 15:08:26 <blau-MikeDG> why just pizza places?
Dec 23 15:08:30 <sysrpl> 3) you DO NOT diaply the phone number, but instead have an order pizza button
Dec 23 15:08:36 <sysrpl> because there is a catch
Dec 23 15:08:45 <blau-MikeDG> a fish?
Dec 23 15:08:48 <unix_lappy> blau-MikeDG: look at the intelligence kosmo put together.
Dec 23 15:08:58 <unix_lappy> that's why
Dec 23 15:09:03 <Disconnect> anchovies are good but nobody sells them anymore
Dec 23 15:09:19 <sysrpl> 4) when a pizza is ordered the rank of the pizza is effected, and you log that order with that pizza place
Dec 23 15:09:27 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: too expensive...any "REAL" toppings are selling at a premium.
Dec 23 15:09:41 <Disconnect> unix_lappy: not popular enough actually
Dec 23 15:09:42 <unix_lappy> like, actual bread, actual cheese, sauce made from...ya know...tomatoes.
Dec 23 15:10:12 <Disconnect> either you bail on the health code and keep them forever or you waste an entire tin every few months when someone orders
Dec 23 15:10:41 <vol> sysrpl: so what you're saying is you want the distribution of pizza orders to be effected by the popular ranking of the pizza
Dec 23 15:10:50 <sysrpl> 5) then you make money by doing the following .. after a few months of unrestrcted pizza orders, you form a list of the top pizza places by region, and call those pizza joints and demand payment from them based on their rankinging ... failure to pay you limits their listing in the app, and thus restricts their orders
Dec 23 15:10:53 * unix_lappy doesnt like major pizza chains anywa.
Dec 23 15:11:07 <vol> sysrpl: that doesn't sound like it would go over well.
Dec 23 15:11:20 <vol> "Nice pizza ranking youse got here. would be a.... SHAME if something happened to it..."
Dec 23 15:11:31 * vol knocks over a can of oregano
Dec 23 15:11:35 <Disconnect> yah thats illegal in most countries
Dec 23 15:11:44 <sysrpl> vol: it all depends on the voice script you give to pizza shop owser ... you will see the exact numebrs per hour/day of orders they get from you
Dec 23 15:11:58 <tauno_> well well.. I like ideas that start or end with something like "...and demand payment"
Dec 23 15:12:00 * unix_lappy wonders how #android-dev became #android
Dec 23 15:12:04 <unix_lappy> (overnight)
Dec 23 15:12:12 <vol> sysrpl: how exactly are you going to be doing the ordeers, too?
Dec 23 15:12:19 <vol> it's simple for pizza places with web forms
Dec 23 15:12:27 <Disconnect> it wasn't overnight. its because teh googs don't particularly care about android-dev
Dec 23 15:12:33 <vol> but are you going to have some sort of back end with VoIP that will make phone calls by robo-voice?
Dec 23 15:12:43 <sysrpl> you don;t ... when you press order pizza, all it does is call the shop and you talk with them on the phone portion of the gphone
Dec 23 15:12:46 <unix_lappy> Disconnect: the googs are away.
Dec 23 15:12:48 <vol> if so, what happens if the simp on the other end screws up and says "hold on one sec"
Dec 23 15:13:05 <Disconnect> vol: most chains have an api. or a fax.
Dec 23 15:13:06 <sysrpl> but you don't see the phone number on the app ... jsut a "order pizza" button
Dec 23 15:13:23 <vol> "Micky's random pizza, whadya want"
Dec 23 15:13:27 <sysrpl> right
Dec 23 15:13:30 <vol> "Aw hell I hate mickys" *click*
Dec 23 15:13:33 <sysrpl> it's just like a phone irder
Dec 23 15:13:34 <vol> "Micky's random pizza, whadya want"
Dec 23 15:13:38 <vol> "FUCK!" *click*
Dec 23 15:13:44 <Disconnect> wow. it sounds like a super complicated way to type "pizza" into google maps
Dec 23 15:13:45 <sysrpl> the listing shows you the name of the joint
Dec 23 15:13:53 <vol> 10:13 < Disconnect> wow. it sounds like a super complicated way to type "pizza" into google maps
Dec 23 15:13:57 <vol> this
Dec 23 15:14:01 <tauno_> sysrpl, sorry to disappoint you but you can't make an app that makes a phone call so that the end user does not see the actual number that is being called..
Dec 23 15:14:02 <vol> feel free to make it if you want
Dec 23 15:14:09 <vol> but this sounds like a pretty bad idea
Dec 23 15:14:13 <sysrpl> it's not a complicated way to oreder pizza ... it has rankings
Dec 23 15:14:21 <Disconnect> i'll make a competing app that just sends a search to google maps.
Dec 23 15:14:26 <vol> I have a very efficient way to order pizza
Dec 23 15:14:33 <vol> 1) Look at pizza place menu on fridge
Dec 23 15:14:35 <vol> 2) Dial number
Dec 23 15:14:37 <vol> 3) Order
Dec 23 15:14:44 <sysrpl> the #1 problem with oredering pizza is knowing if their pies are any good
Dec 23 15:14:53 <Disconnect> yah or if travelling, "pick up room phone" "push 0" "ask for decent pizza place"
Dec 23 15:15:08 <vol> yes, but you want the level of pie service to be dependant on them paying you money
Dec 23 15:15:11 <tauno_> sysrpl, as I said.. it can't be done like you want it.. the user will see the phone number
Dec 23 15:15:18 <Disconnect> sysrpl: yah and the 8 android users in your city are all gonna order from dominos. so who cares.
Dec 23 15:15:20 <vol> how can I, the user, trust that pappa johns hasn't given you $100 in extortion money
Dec 23 15:15:26 <vol> because god knows they suck >: (
Dec 23 15:15:36 <sysrpl> i live in a small area which has a BUNCH of local pizza shops ... gino pizzza, bizzarro pizza, canaveral pizza, kelseys pizza, papa vito pzza
Dec 23 15:15:47 <Disconnect> ...and 3 android users
Dec 23 15:15:49 <Disconnect> think about that a second
Dec 23 15:15:52 <vol> yeah really
Dec 23 15:16:09 <sysrpl> it would work better in larger cities
Dec 23 15:16:24 <Disconnect> no, because the # of pizza places scales too.
Dec 23 15:16:42 <Disconnect> so now you've got 100 users.. and they are spread out over 100-200 pizza places. oops.
Dec 23 15:16:45 <sysrpl> i know i'd order pizza if i could find a local place like ginos II in orlando in my area
Dec 23 15:17:16 <Disconnect> anyway livecd time, this laptop is dying. bbiab.
Dec 23 15:17:19 <sysrpl> this is NOT for people who eat at pizza hut
Dec 23 15:17:26 <sysrpl> it's for people who want real pizza
Dec 23 15:17:28 <Disconnect> ok so now we're back to 3 users again
Dec 23 15:17:32 <Disconnect> bbiab
Dec 23 15:17:38 <vol> sysrpl: you have a phone book
Dec 23 15:17:40 <vol> and google maps
Dec 23 15:17:47 <vol> google "pizza near <your address here>"
Dec 23 15:17:52 <vol> start trying each of them
Dec 23 15:18:00 <sysrpl> most people order pizza using a phone, not the pc
Dec 23 15:18:17 <vol> google maps has this innovative feature on the POIs it pops up
Dec 23 15:18:20 <vol> where it displays the phone number
Dec 23 15:18:27 <sysrpl> pizza is the #1 phone ordered food in america
Dec 23 15:18:30 <vol> most people have the hand-eye coordination to order off the screen
Dec 23 15:18:43 <tauno_> sysrpl, really? that's scary..
Dec 23 15:18:52 <vol> s/order/dial/
Dec 23 15:19:17 <tauno_> anyway... you might get more responses in #android (;
Dec 23 15:19:27 <sysrpl> and most people that lookup pizza are concerned MOSTLY with the quality of the pie
Dec 23 15:19:41 <sysrpl> this application is all about RANKING that pizza
Dec 23 15:20:03 <michaelnovakjr> wow still talking about pizza
Dec 23 15:20:10 <sysrpl> i love pizza
Dec 23 15:20:15 * michaelnovakjr files this into /dev/null
Dec 23 15:20:27 <vol> I'm half convinced you're some sort of elaborate troll
Dec 23 15:20:37 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Dec 23 15:20:38 <sysrpl> why?
Dec 23 15:20:57 <vol> because you refuse to believe that people can order pizza without a custom app that will randomly dial pizza places for them
Dec 23 15:21:06 <sysrpl> there is nothing random
Dec 23 15:21:08 <sysrpl> about it
Dec 23 15:21:10 <sysrpl> geez
Dec 23 15:21:15 <sysrpl> it's RANKED
Dec 23 15:21:18 <vol> you also don't see the disconnect between the trial and error you are suggesting, and the trial and error most people just do anyway
Dec 23 15:21:22 <vol> well SHIT
Dec 23 15:21:25 <vol> I guess if it's ranked
Dec 23 15:21:29 <vol> I mean I don't really rank pizza
Dec 23 15:21:35 <vol> I just eat anything that's placed directly in front of me
Dec 23 15:21:44 <vol> this has lead to embarresing yet hilarious situations on more than one occasion
Dec 23 15:21:44 <sysrpl> vol: that's tyour problem
Dec 23 15:21:52 <vol> who knew that boots were edible?
Dec 23 15:21:53 <sysrpl> i guess you've never had really good pizza
Dec 23 15:22:06 <vol> I guess you never figured out how to find really good pizza
Dec 23 15:22:13 <sysrpl> i do
Dec 23 15:22:13 <tauno_> AND you refuse to read my comment about the fact that IT CAN NOT BE DONE so that the user does not see what phone number is being called
Dec 23 15:22:14 <vol> (hint: it doesn't require a custom app)
Dec 23 15:22:15 <michaelnovakjr> i just think its way off topic for #android-dev, maybe try #hardcore-pizza-freaks
Dec 23 15:22:17 <sysrpl> in certain areas
Dec 23 15:22:25 <vol> well!
Dec 23 15:22:30 <vol> expand your horizons!
Dec 23 15:22:40 <vol> start calling jimmy's pizza, and order a pie!
Dec 23 15:22:46 <vol> if it's no good, cross their name off your list
Dec 23 15:22:48 <vol> and try another place
Dec 23 15:22:57 <vol> this sounds exactly like your app except with pencil and paper and dignity
Dec 23 15:23:07 <sysrpl> exactly ... that's what this app does .. it gives you an already corssed off list
Dec 23 15:23:25 <vol> except that you're crossing off good places that don't pay you extortion money
Dec 23 15:23:27 <sysrpl> there is no loss in dignity from using a phone
Dec 23 15:23:33 <vol> you also need to seed this list somehow
Dec 23 15:23:40 <sysrpl> seeding is easy
Dec 23 15:23:47 <vol> like pimpin
Dec 23 15:23:49 <vol> or blimpin?
Dec 23 15:24:07 <sysrpl> plus, demanding money from shops is not extortion
Dec 23 15:24:09 <sysrpl> it's fair
Dec 23 15:24:28 <michaelnovakjr> again.. off topic
Dec 23 15:24:33 <vol> at best it's quite the dick move, and expect to hear a lot of insults and hangups
Dec 23 15:24:49 <vol> "You're who? doing what? a cell phone what now?"
Dec 23 15:24:52 <sysrpl> i wouldn't do the calls
Dec 23 15:24:52 <vol> "and you want HOW much?"
Dec 23 15:25:03 <vol> "get stuffed" *click*
Dec 23 15:25:03 <michaelnovakjr> dude sysrpl really, drop it
Dec 23 15:25:15 <sysrpl> michaelnovakjr: i would
Dec 23 15:25:17 <vol> yeah, just either take out the extortion idea or drop it entirely
Dec 23 15:25:23 <sysrpl> michaelnovakjr: but vol seems to like arguing
Dec 23 15:25:51 <sysrpl> vol: you do understand that the yellow pages sharges for lsiting right? is that extortion?
Dec 23 15:26:08 <sysrpl> sharges = charges
Dec 23 15:26:26 <michaelnovakjr> its not the place for this discussion
Dec 23 15:26:27 <vol> the yellow pages charges based on the size of the ad
Dec 23 15:26:38 <sysrpl> so?
Dec 23 15:26:45 <vol> your store is listed even if you pay nothing
Dec 23 15:26:50 <zinx> sysrpl: considering the phone companies charge businesses for listing, and individuals for unlisting... i think it probably is.
Dec 23 15:26:52 <vol> lets just drop it ^_^
Dec 23 15:27:23 <zinx> sysrpl: at least in one direction ;)
Dec 23 15:28:00 <sysrpl> zinx: sounds fair to me ... you want to receive orders from us? it'll cost you X
Dec 23 15:28:16 <blau-MikeDG> sysrpl: ok ill be your marketer
Dec 23 15:28:22 <blau-MikeDG> code the app and send it to me
Dec 23 15:28:40 <michaelnovakjr> could you not encourage the conversation :)
Dec 23 15:29:30 <ttuttle> Who is #android scamming^W doing business with today?
Dec 23 15:32:11 <blau-MikeDG> sysrpl: lets add pop ups in the software as well
Dec 23 15:32:30 <blau-MikeDG> randomly when other apps are run or installed, lets pop up an advertisement
Dec 23 15:32:43 <michaelnovakjr> man that's annoying
Dec 23 15:33:13 <blau-MikeDG> and pizza places can buy ads, so if someone calls a competitor we can pop up an advertisement before placing the call
Dec 23 15:33:39 <sysrpl> blau-MikeDG:go on
Dec 23 15:33:42 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: This is a horrible idea.
Dec 23 15:33:52 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: And to think, I wrote the code that lets you intercept outgoing calls.
Dec 23 15:33:55 * ttuttle hates himself.
Dec 23 15:34:10 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: Also, why would anyone run this app?
Dec 23 15:34:20 <michaelnovakjr> ttuttle: they are just being annoying
Dec 23 15:34:24 <blau-MikeDG> because it lets you order pizza
Dec 23 15:34:30 <blau-MikeDG> everyone loves pizza
Dec 23 15:34:50 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: Um, simple.  You say "Hey, anyone know a good pizza joint around here?" and you get an answer.
Dec 23 15:34:54 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: No need to monetize it.
Dec 23 15:34:54 <blau-MikeDG> i can go make an app called Pizza, and in the description say that it deletes every contact on your phone after sending them a "fuck you" message and people would download it
Dec 23 15:35:09 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: *facepalm*
Dec 23 15:35:21 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: Please, try to make the world better, not worse.
Dec 23 15:35:30 <vol> blau-MikeDG: but think of all the amazing emails you would get
Dec 23 15:35:45 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: "AWESOME APP FIRST DAWG"
Dec 23 15:35:49 <blau-MikeDG> lol
Dec 23 15:35:50 <vol> "Hey. I tried this app. lol! it didnt do anythin but now my contacts are gone? lol wtf"
Dec 23 15:35:53 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: "OBAMA IS A MUSLIM LOL U STOOPID SHEEP!"
Dec 23 15:35:58 <vol> ahahaha
Dec 23 15:36:02 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: "RATIN 1 STAR CUZ I DONT KNOW WHAT IT DUZ"
Dec 23 15:36:06 <vol> I'm crying on the inside though : (
Dec 23 15:36:14 <sysrpl> blau-MikeDG: your ideas are intersting, please continue
Dec 23 15:36:15 <ttuttle> vol: Yeah, doesn't it make you sad how dumb the world is?
Dec 23 15:36:17 <vol> marketplace comments are worse than youtube comments
Dec 23 15:36:20 <ttuttle> vol: Yeah.
Dec 23 15:36:25 <ttuttle> vol: /me hopes for moderation soon.
Dec 23 15:36:31 <vol> google really, REALLY needs to get filtering of some kind in soon
Dec 23 15:36:44 <blau-MikeDG> or at least filter out anything with no vowels
Dec 23 15:36:47 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG++
Dec 23 15:36:52 <ttuttle> blau-MikeDG: They should run stupidfilter on it.
Dec 23 15:37:02 <ttuttle> http://www.stupidfilter.org/
Dec 23 15:37:18 <blau-MikeDG> ughhh, fucking stupid people
Dec 23 15:37:26 <vol> ttuttle: heh
Dec 23 15:37:29 <vol> I haven't seen this before
Dec 23 15:37:55 <ttuttle> So, I would totally support a "Pizza" app with sponsored results, but if you hijack outoging calls that's just obnoxious.
Dec 23 15:38:03 <blau-MikeDG> "beware runs in background which drainsbetter and makes sms apps run slow" sigh
Dec 23 15:38:18 <vol> Isn't filtering stupidity elitist?
Dec 23 15:38:18 <vol> Yes. Yes, it is. That's sort of the whole point.
Dec 23 15:38:24 <ttuttle> vol: Exactly.
Dec 23 15:38:26 <vol> oh god I have an erection right now
Dec 23 15:39:50 <vol> oh wow they actually have a beta version
Dec 23 15:39:52 * vol downloads
Dec 23 15:39:55 <ttuttle> vol: congratulations?
Dec 23 15:44:45 <blau-MikeDG> congrats on your baby turkey!
Dec 23 15:46:05 <vol> :3
Dec 23 15:46:07 <vol> anyway
Dec 23 16:46:54 <anno^da_> re
Dec 23 16:47:36 <anno^da_> Oh I hate the battery life of the G1 :). On train trip with 1h of browsing (GPRS only) and  the battery is going down. .(
Dec 23 16:47:55 <michaelnovakjr> i don't have that problem :)
Dec 23 16:48:05 <zinx> me either
Dec 23 16:48:13 <zinx> i can browse for many hours
Dec 23 16:48:30 <anno^da_> hmm strange thing
Dec 23 16:48:30 <zinx> 1h may take it down 2%...  not much, in any case
Dec 23 16:48:41 <anno^da_> 2% only hmm
Dec 23 16:48:48 <zinx> maybe more.. but not 10%
Dec 23 16:48:53 <unix_lappy> anno^da_: i have the same problem as you.
Dec 23 16:48:56 <jasta> anno^da_: poor signal quality negatively affects battery life...
Dec 23 16:48:59 <unix_lappy> I lose 10% / hour.
Dec 23 16:49:19 <anno^da_> unix_lappy: a great to hear that.
Dec 23 16:49:20 <unix_lappy> but i generally get the same overall life out of the battery...so i'm guessing it's improperly calibrated still.
Dec 23 16:49:27 <anno^da_> jasta:  thanks for the information
Dec 23 16:49:40 <zinx> i do have my screen turned to the dimmest it'll go (and find myself wishing i could turn it down some more at times)
Dec 23 16:49:42 <unix_lappy> jasta: i get terrific reception everywhere I go.
Dec 23 16:49:51 <zinx> not for battery life, but because it's so darned bright :x
Dec 23 16:50:13 <zinx> unix_lappy: do you have the GPS on + some location reading app?
Dec 23 16:50:23 <zinx> those eat battery life pretty quick
Dec 23 16:50:26 <anno^da_> and I have GPS off
Dec 23 16:50:30 <anno^da_> 3G off
Dec 23 16:50:35 <unix_lappy> zinx: nothing but edge.
Dec 23 16:50:40 <unix_lappy> and off a fresh reboot.
Dec 23 16:50:43 <michaelnovakjr> maybe you guys are running some crappy apps :)
Dec 23 16:50:49 <unix_lappy> michaelnovakjr^^
Dec 23 16:50:49 * zinx leaves 3G on and WiFi on...
Dec 23 16:50:51 <anno^da_> and as unix_lappy dimmed the screen to the lowest
Dec 23 16:51:06 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: well Locale is battery draining
Dec 23 16:51:32 <anno^da_> but nothing else is running in the background (which is a bit of a problem to get to know for normal users)
Dec 23 16:51:49 <anno^da_> How should a "normal" user see if some crappy app is draining down the battery ?
Dec 23 16:52:05 <anno^da_> (without extra software or the console)
Dec 23 16:52:11 * zinx should write an app for that
Dec 23 16:52:16 * danderson waves
Dec 23 16:52:27 * anno^da_ claps for zinx :-)
Dec 23 16:52:42 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_: tail the log
Dec 23 16:52:47 <michaelnovakjr> see the activity
Dec 23 17:01:08 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: but a normal user ...
Dec 23 17:01:17 <anno^da_> doesnt even know what an activity should be
Dec 23 17:01:24 <michaelnovakjr> there might be something in the market
Dec 23 17:01:27 <michaelnovakjr> i'm not sure
Dec 23 17:01:35 <anno^da_> For sure I can do that and track the problem.
Dec 23 17:01:50 <anno^da_> But a normal user just sits there and looks at his draining battery.
Dec 23 17:01:55 <anno^da_> No task manager nothing.
Dec 23 17:02:24 <anno^da_> (I know that there shouldnt be one. But well in a lot of situations it could help the user)
Dec 23 17:03:59 <vol> anno^da_: there are some apps that will tell you what apps are running
Dec 23 17:04:06 <vol> maybe not the best for the "average" user
Dec 23 17:04:13 <anno^da_> Yeah sure.
Dec 23 17:04:30 <anno^da_> I'm just talking from the view of a normal average user.
Dec 23 17:05:00 <anno^da_> And how it could be improved. I don't have a solution for that at the moment.
Dec 23 17:11:44 <vol> well, the idea is that there's only supposed to be one app running at a time
Dec 23 17:11:55 <vol> there could be a service in the background that's sucking up the juice, of course
Dec 23 17:11:56 <anno^da_> It is so crazy. 100% plugged in - unplugged the device and wrote an SMS - 87% battery. Strange thing.
Dec 23 17:12:35 <anno^da_> Yeah but these services are the problem. Let me take Locale as an example. It is doing sth. nearly every 10 minutes.
Dec 23 17:12:49 <anno^da_> (which you can see in the Logcat)
Dec 23 17:12:57 <zinx> anno^da_: it's eating your battery every 10 minutes
Dec 23 17:13:04 <vol> om nom nom :3
Dec 23 17:13:19 <anno^da_> zinx: Yeah seems to be so.
Dec 23 17:13:29 <vol> I guess you have a point
Dec 23 17:13:30 <anno^da_> And it is draining a lot of battery.
Dec 23 17:13:35 <zinx> anno^da_: pretty sure it turns on GPS or at least wakes the phone 'til it can get a semi-decent location every 10 minutes
Dec 23 17:13:45 <vol> weatherbug runs in the background, without me realizing it until it tells me about a weather advisory
Dec 23 17:13:58 <blau-MikeDG> its hard to see an app that is draining the battery
Dec 23 17:14:03 <blau-MikeDG> a way to see permissions could help
Dec 23 17:14:07 <anno^da_> Yeah independent from my problem. How should the normal user get to know that.
Dec 23 17:14:14 <blau-MikeDG> any app with wake locks is a good place to start
Dec 23 17:14:15 <vol> permissions don't help when you have 100 apps
Dec 23 17:14:27 <anno^da_> Yeah true.
Dec 23 17:14:28 <zinx> an app can be written that dumps CPU time used per app
Dec 23 17:14:31 <vol> and have of them have net access, because they just want to check for updates
Dec 23 17:14:51 <anno^da_> vol: Yeah the net access permission is pretty useless.
Dec 23 17:14:52 <vol> (I still think there should be some sort of net_access_updates permissions check that just checks against a server on the marketplace or something)
Dec 23 17:14:53 <zinx> can even be written to tell you what did stuff during sleep..
Dec 23 17:14:57 <jasta> you guys could just run adb shell top, adb shell dumpsys activity | grep oom_adj, and adb shell netstat...
Dec 23 17:15:04 <jasta> all of which would give you a good idea of what apps are doing
Dec 23 17:15:12 <vol> 12:04 < anno^da_> I'm just talking from the view of a normal average user.
Dec 23 17:15:33 <anno^da_> jasta: true. I can do that but no average user. :)
Dec 23 17:15:38 <jasta> the normal user isn't going to ever get that ability, i'm sure of that.
Dec 23 17:15:38 <blau-MikeDG> i wish ther was a way, instead of fools on the market place leaving negative comments against every app that has a service
Dec 23 17:15:42 <jasta> they don't have it on their PC, either.
Dec 23 17:15:44 <vol> average user needs instructions not to try to eat the phone
Dec 23 17:15:52 <vol> do not attempt to eat phone
Dec 23 17:15:53 <vol> phone is not edible
Dec 23 17:15:57 <anno^da_> :D
Dec 23 17:16:00 * zinx is saying an app an average user could use could be written
Dec 23 17:16:02 <vol> :B
Dec 23 17:16:11 * zinx is too lazy to write it, most likely
Dec 23 17:16:25 <blau-MikeDG> basically the users think any app that has a service is bad
Dec 23 17:16:31 <blau-MikeDG> unless its an im app
Dec 23 17:16:36 <blau-MikeDG> then they only want apps that have services
Dec 23 17:16:49 <anno^da_> Well and why do they think that because some apps drain the battery down.
Dec 23 17:17:14 <anno^da_> But well to be honest applications like Locale are not possible without draining the battery.
Dec 23 17:17:28 <blau-MikeDG> yeah a lot of apps arent possible
Dec 23 17:17:36 <jasta> no app is possible, in fact.
Dec 23 17:17:40 <anno^da_> :)
Dec 23 17:17:53 <blau-MikeDG> jasta: know i understand why tmobile hired you
Dec 23 17:17:53 <anno^da_> ... the battery too much.
Dec 23 17:17:59 <jasta> every instruction drains the battery.
Dec 23 17:18:16 <anno^da_> jasta: true. some need more battery some less.
Dec 23 17:18:25 <jasta> efficient code is the best you can ask for.
Dec 23 17:18:30 <blau-MikeDG> anno: one of my users mentioned that Missed Call sometimes still shows its led for SMS even with SMS disabled
Dec 23 17:18:34 <vol> thus disproving the internet
Dec 23 17:18:36 <jasta> if you are installing apps written inefficiently, find them, report that to the author, and uninstall them.
Dec 23 17:18:49 <zinx> and code that doesn't keep the phone awake when it's supposed to be idling (i'm talking to you, streamfurious)
Dec 23 17:18:53 <blau-MikeDG> actually, ive noticed it too lately
Dec 23 17:19:20 <zinx> too bad too, i want something to play music streams :/
Dec 23 17:25:04 <jasta> zinx: have you tried contacting the author?
Dec 23 17:26:06 <zinx> jasta: of streamfurious?  no.  not interested in it long-term anyway.
Dec 23 17:26:37 <jasta> well i have to question the wisdom in complaining about a broken app when you don't care if it gets fixed
Dec 23 17:27:05 * zinx thought he was complaining about poorly coded apps in general, and providing an example..
Dec 23 17:28:36 <jasta> my fault, sorry.
Dec 23 17:31:21 <jasta> i will say that i have found it hard to trust any app i have installed from the market.  they all seem very poorly written.
Dec 23 17:31:53 <michaelnovakjr> agreed.
Dec 23 17:32:04 <zinx> new platform..  the good devs will eventually start writing stuff for it
Dec 23 17:32:49 <jasta> but the bad ones will never stop :)
Dec 23 17:32:54 <zinx> i've only written a brain-dead simple app so far due to brain problems, and general laziness
Dec 23 17:32:58 <zinx> ya, but that's true for every platform
Dec 23 17:33:09 <blau-MikeDG> im never gonna stop!
Dec 23 17:33:10 <vol> would have hoped that the $25 fee would prevent people from brain dumping their ideas
Dec 23 17:33:29 <michaelnovakjr> great blau-MikeDG , i'm never gonna stop avoiding your apps! :)
Dec 23 17:33:31 <zinx> vol: never misunderestimate the determination of a CS student
Dec 23 17:33:41 <jasta> zinx: well, kind of.  a lot of other platforms have better refinement in their repositories.  it would be nice to see google develop branches for the Market.
Dec 23 17:33:48 <vol> ha
Dec 23 17:33:50 <jasta> much like Debian, with experimental, unstable, and stable.
Dec 23 17:34:08 <michaelnovakjr> need a branch for stupid too
Dec 23 17:34:10 <jasta> but i doubt that google could commit that many resources to this problem.
Dec 23 17:34:14 <michaelnovakjr> that way we have a place for the tip calcs
Dec 23 17:34:15 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Dec 23 17:34:29 <zinx> jasta: well, the Market's ratings/comments are really terrible right now.. i think "fixing" that (not sure completely how, but removing the useless comments would be a start) would help
Dec 23 17:34:49 <zinx> versioned comments would probably also help some
Dec 23 17:34:54 <jasta> zinx: peer moderation with a public web interface would probably take care of that.
Dec 23 17:34:58 <blau-MikeDG> allow people to rate developer
Dec 23 17:35:14 <zinx> blau-MikeDG: could be done automatically based on their app ratings..
Dec 23 17:35:27 <blau-MikeDG> jasta: then youll have some noob using amazon mechanical turk, to moderate all his negative ratings
Dec 23 17:35:35 <jasta> well whatever.  i dont think google is in any need of suggestions on how to improve the market.
Dec 23 17:35:37 <zinx> michaelnovakjr: and my dead pixel tester :D
Dec 23 17:36:06 <zinx> jasta: hopefully not :D
Dec 23 17:36:13 <blau-MikeDG> zinx: omg my bright pixel tester is better! :D
Dec 23 17:36:23 <zinx> blau-MikeDG: might detects both! :P
Dec 23 17:36:28 <zinx> mine
Dec 23 17:36:36 <blau-MikeDG> damn i give up
Dec 23 17:38:05 <zinx> blau-MikeDG: haha, it's way simple.  http://zenthought.org/content/file/pixel-tester http://zenthought.org/PixelTester.apk
Dec 23 17:42:07 <zinx> consider it to be public domain w/o warranty or whatever, i'm too lazy to finish it, and really don't care what anyone does with it
Dec 23 17:43:02 <blau-MikeDG> im gonna sell it when the pay thing for th emarket goes live
Dec 23 17:43:03 <zinx> (finish = help maybe, display which pattern is showing (there are 8 or so))
Dec 23 17:43:16 <zinx> haha, go for it
Dec 23 17:43:16 <blau-MikeDG> ill donate all the proceeds to PETA
Dec 23 17:43:28 <blau-MikeDG> in the form of hamburgers
Dec 23 17:47:07 <vol> zinx: downloading from the webnets tells me that the app wants to replace another app, and Android System shows up in the background.
Dec 23 17:47:19 * vol aborts
Dec 23 17:47:22 <zinx> vol: o_O
Dec 23 17:47:29 <vol> what kind of crazy apk is this
Dec 23 17:47:44 <zinx> shouldn't be replacing anything..
Dec 23 17:47:59 <blau-MikeDG> zinx: have you tried dling form your site?
Dec 23 17:48:10 <blau-MikeDG> that happens when the web server is not saying the right mime type i think
Dec 23 17:48:15 <blau-MikeDG> i ran into that problem once
Dec 23 17:48:50 <zinx> vol: maybe you already installed it?
Dec 23 17:48:57 <zinx> blau-MikeDG: ah hum
Dec 23 17:48:59 <vol> zinx: no, pretty sure I haven't.
Dec 23 17:49:06 <vol> running it on the emu
Dec 23 17:49:07 <blau-MikeDG> it wont install correctly
Dec 23 17:49:12 <vol> good lord, do you continuously refresh?
Dec 23 17:49:17 <zinx> Length: 10874 (11K) [text/plain]
Dec 23 17:49:22 <zinx> vol: no
Dec 23 17:49:30 <blau-MikeDG> theres been issues with this, check the google developer group
Dec 23 17:49:38 <vol> my monitor must be wigging out then
Dec 23 17:49:46 <zinx> vol: it only 'refreshes' when you hit the left or right of the screen
Dec 23 17:49:52 <zinx> and that's because it changes patterns
Dec 23 17:50:02 <vol> ok
Dec 23 17:50:08 <vol> monitor is just going "zomg" I gues
Dec 23 17:50:28 <vol> o_O
Dec 23 17:50:34 * vol 's eyes hurt
Dec 23 17:50:54 <zinx> not so great for CRTs.
Dec 23 17:51:03 <vol> flatscreen : (
Dec 23 17:51:12 <zinx> not so great for analog either?
Dec 23 17:51:17 <vol> :E
Dec 23 17:51:25 <zinx> or TVs.. they tend to have really stupid filtering
Dec 23 17:51:32 <zinx> (even the LCD/Plasma ones)
Dec 23 17:53:01 <zinx> going to uninstall and try installing from the temp location on my site..
Dec 23 17:55:17 <zinx> uhm
Dec 23 17:55:40 <zinx> went to the URL in the browser, it downloaded, i clicked downloaded, told it to install, and it did so with no warnings or anything..
Dec 23 17:55:58 <zinx> maybe you haven't enabled non-market stuff?  (you can temporarily enable, then disable after installing)
Dec 23 17:58:20 <blau-MikeDG> yay no more keyguard
Dec 23 17:58:22 <blau-MikeDG> eat my shorts!
Dec 23 17:58:27 <zinx> hehe
Dec 23 17:59:29 <zinx> suddenly blau-MikeDG's battery life plumets and his friends start complaining about strange cryptic messages from him...
Dec 23 18:03:02 <blau-MikeDG> yo mommas battery life plummets!
Dec 23 18:03:21 <blau-MikeDG> is it me or is the keyguard on the iphone really retarded?
Dec 23 18:03:35 <michaelnovakjr> don't know this is an android channel :)
Dec 23 18:03:38 <zinx> oh ho ho, just got around to looking at my site in the G1 browser
Dec 23 18:03:47 <zinx> should have known it wouldn't support XML+XSLT :)
Dec 23 18:04:11 <zinx> i really should remove that bit.. google doesn't index it right either
Dec 23 18:16:08 <blau-MikeDG> we need a dyndns client for our phones
Dec 23 18:16:33 <zinx> dyndns would hate us
Dec 23 18:16:44 <blau-MikeDG> lol y
Dec 23 18:16:52 <zinx> they change IPs every time they wake/sleep if you have wifi enabled ;)
Dec 23 18:17:04 <zinx> they=phone
Dec 23 18:18:38 <blau-MikeDG> grr has anyone tried creating a webserver?
Dec 23 18:18:47 <blau-MikeDG> or any sort of server
Dec 23 18:19:42 <zinx> i think someone has
Dec 23 18:20:11 <blau-MikeDG> cause i cant seem to connect to someting i think should work
Dec 23 18:20:17 <zinx> i think people need to learn the place of the device, personally :x
Dec 23 18:20:37 <zinx> blau-MikeDG: probably being filtered
Dec 23 18:20:55 <zinx> try it over local wifi or something
Dec 23 18:22:06 <blau-MikeDG> will do
Dec 23 18:23:49 <blau-MikeDG> yeah you are right :(
Dec 23 18:27:11 <blau-MikeDG> no way to get around it?
Dec 23 18:27:25 <zinx> not if the ISP's filtering
Dec 23 18:27:37 <zinx> you could try a different port.. that's it
Dec 23 18:28:25 <zinx> usually 80, 21, 25, etc will be filtered
Dec 23 18:28:35 <blau-MikeDG> i tried 8080
Dec 23 18:28:46 <blau-MikeDG> ill try some random num
Dec 23 18:28:50 <zinx> less common for that to be filtered.. but i can see them doing it
Dec 23 18:28:59 <zinx> they may just filter everything :x
Dec 23 18:29:20 <blau-MikeDG> :(
Dec 23 18:29:45 <michaelnovakjr> blau-MikeDG: do you have the internet permission in the manifest?
Dec 23 18:30:04 <blau-MikeDG> yeah
Dec 23 18:30:17 <michaelnovakjr> what is the server....
Dec 23 18:30:50 <blau-MikeDG> just accepts a connection and spits out testing lol
Dec 23 18:31:05 <blau-MikeDG> 				Socket connectionsocket = serversocket.accept();
Dec 23 18:31:06 <michaelnovakjr> is it a computer?
Dec 23 18:31:09 <blau-MikeDG> works on local network
Dec 23 18:31:16 <blau-MikeDG> its the G1
Dec 23 18:31:17 <michaelnovakjr> you have a router?
Dec 23 18:31:52 <blau-MikeDG> was trying to just use it over the internet
Dec 23 18:32:09 <michaelnovakjr> if you have a router you probably have to forward the port to the device
Dec 23 18:38:17 <blau-MikeDG> hmmm
Dec 23 18:38:26 <blau-MikeDG> with the keyguard disabled, the volume keys turn the screen on
Dec 23 20:53:31 <marklar> Has anyone seen an error like this: "Conversion to Dalvik format failed with error 1"?
Dec 23 20:53:41 <marklar> I'm having trouble finding info about it
Dec 23 20:57:03 <jasta> i have seen that once or twice.
Dec 23 20:57:22 <jasta> try cleaning your project (in eclipse, thats under Project -> Clean)
Dec 23 20:57:24 <marklar> Did you figure out why it was happening for you?
Dec 23 20:57:30 <marklar> yeah, I did already, same error
Dec 23 20:57:40 <jasta> if its still happening and you are using Eclipse, increase the verbosity of the android plugin in the preferences
Dec 23 20:57:43 <jasta> then read what it says :)
Dec 23 20:57:56 <marklar> ah, thanks, didn't know you could change the verbosity :)
Dec 23 20:58:21 <jasta> one thing to keep in mind, Dalvik only supports Java 1.5 officially.  If you are using Java 1.6 features or classes, it isn't expected to work
Dec 23 20:58:44 <marklar> ok, I'm trying to use Apache POI, but I don't really know much about it
Dec 23 20:58:47 <marklar> I'll have to read up on it
Dec 23 20:59:01 <marklar> ty
Dec 23 20:59:03 <jasta> but do increase the verbsoity so you can get an idea of where to look
Dec 23 20:59:54 <marklar> yeah thanks that'll be a help in other things too I'm sure
Dec 23 21:00:29 <fadden> jasta: the VM runtime supports 1.6, and the core libs have most of the 1.6 features (but not all).
Dec 23 21:00:51 <fadden> We build with "-target 1.5" to avoid differences between the 1.5 and 1.6 compiler output.
Dec 23 21:05:17 <khert> how do i prevent the orientation of my view from changing when the keyboard is opened?
Dec 23 21:06:20 <khert> i tried overriding onSizeChanged, on Measure, and onLayout, but that didn't help
Dec 23 21:07:03 <jasta> khert: in the manifest as a property of the activity.  the two properties you want are screenOrientation and configChanges
Dec 23 21:07:37 <khert> do those prevent the entire activity from changing orientation?
Dec 23 21:07:52 <khert> cuz i was hoping it'd just be a specific view
Dec 23 21:08:27 <khert> but i guess i can live with that
Dec 23 21:08:33 <jasta> Views don't change orientation when the keyboard is exposed.
Dec 23 21:08:41 <jasta> so i don't know what you're tlaking about.
Dec 23 21:09:34 <khert> hmm, guess i'm not familiar enough with it yet
Dec 23 21:10:03 <jasta> layout views like LinearLayout have an orientation property which determines how to layout child widgets.  That property is not affected by screen orientation changes.
Dec 23 21:10:23 <jasta> some other views have orientation parameters for various things as well, none of which are affected by screen orientation changes.
Dec 23 21:11:04 <jasta> An orientation change when the keyboard is exposed occurs at the activity layer, and you can specify multiple layouts to draw based on that orientation.  Or, as I mentioned with those two manifest attributes, you can reject the orientation change event.
Dec 23 21:11:36 <jasta> If you wish to simply have two different layouts for each orientation, just make layout-land/foo.xml and layout-port/foo.xml.  The system will take care of it for you.
Dec 23 21:12:53 <khert> ok, cool.  i'll keep experimenting with it
Dec 23 21:25:42 <skyred> I uninstalled an app, then try to redownload it. they I got download unsuccessful error all the time for this app. How to fix this?
Dec 23 21:27:17 <michaelnovakjr> this is a dev channe;
Dec 23 21:27:19 <michaelnovakjr> channel
Dec 23 21:28:24 <skyred> michaelnovakjr, i am trying to fix this bug
Dec 23 21:28:35 <michaelnovakjr> with your own app?
Dec 23 21:28:57 <skyred> michaelnovakjr, the one I tested was caller ID
Dec 23 21:29:32 <michaelnovakjr> something with the app signature...
Dec 23 21:41:06 <skyred> michaelnovakjr, couldn't find much information about app signature from Google, do you know any good documentations?
Dec 23 21:43:32 <michaelnovakjr> is this your app?
Dec 23 21:45:40 <skyred> michaelnovakjr, no
Dec 23 22:44:57 <marklar1> Can anyone think why I am getting a NoClassDefFound error on a class from a .jar, but it can find other classes in the jar fine?
Dec 23 22:45:08 <marklar1> I've double checked and the file is definitely in the jar
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 24 02:59:57 2008