**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 26 02:59:57 2009
Jan 26 04:23:07 <ErnestoGuevara> so... hey
Jan 26 04:23:28 <ErnestoGuevara> anyone know if any of the widget with two a two-image button?  where you specify a different button for pressed/released
Jan 26 04:56:22 <jasta> ErnestoGuevara: all widgets have that capability.
Jan 26 04:56:48 <jasta> look at the source, spoecifically the styles.xml file which specifies how to draw the normal buttons
Jan 26 04:57:10 <jasta> you use a selector drawable, basically
Jan 26 05:07:48 <esses> hi guys, is there a way to detect if an image I'm scrolling into an imageview reachs its upper,left,right,bottom limits?
Jan 26 05:11:15 <iWas-Esses-> Hi connection troubles :-)
Jan 26 05:29:41 <ErnestoGuevara> selector drawable?  ok, I'll look into it, thanks
Jan 26 05:29:51 <ErnestoGuevara> i haven't been able to figure out how to download source on a windows box
Jan 26 05:29:57 <ErnestoGuevara> i guess i'll just jump around those web pages
Jan 26 05:32:33 <ErnestoGuevara> the description of selector is about the most opaque javadoc i've ever seen :-(
Jan 26 06:35:24 <jsharkey> ErnestoGuevara: yea @ docs  :/  but there are some examples in the framework source
Jan 26 06:36:00 <DarkriftX> anyone know how to run a shell command from an android app?
Jan 26 06:36:28 <jsharkey> DarkriftX: might not be possible with public apis, but peek at Term app maybe?
Jan 26 06:36:37 <DarkriftX> hrmmmm
Jan 26 06:36:52 <DarkriftX> i think it is able, someone told me how a week or 2 ago in android
Jan 26 06:37:07 <jsharkey> umm lol if you already know the answer, then why did you ask?  :P
Jan 26 06:37:11 <DarkriftX> i dont
Jan 26 06:37:14 <DarkriftX> no logs :(
Jan 26 06:37:17 <DarkriftX> and i dont know what to search
Jan 26 06:37:32 <jsharkey> hmm i thought the term app was in the source dump
Jan 26 06:37:42 <DarkriftX> i wonder if the superuser app would deal with that
Jan 26 06:38:43 <jsharkey> ErnestoGuevara: heres an example for the radio button    http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=core/res/res/drawable/radiobutton.xml
Jan 26 06:43:49 <ErnestoGuevara> jsharkey:  thanks, though I suspect this is different images for checked/unchecked?
Jan 26 06:44:07 <ErnestoGuevara> oh, right
Jan 26 06:44:10 <jsharkey> there is also tags in there for focused/unfocused too
Jan 26 06:44:15 <ErnestoGuevara> checked/unchecked, focused/unfocused
Jan 26 06:44:21 <ErnestoGuevara> but focused is not the same as pressed, right?
Jan 26 06:44:22 <jsharkey> there are more too, like pressed
Jan 26 06:44:32 <ErnestoGuevara> oh, ok
Jan 26 06:44:34 <jsharkey> i think button defines stuff for pressed state
Jan 26 06:44:41 <ErnestoGuevara> that's what I'm looking for
Jan 26 06:45:03 <ErnestoGuevara> maybe a search for state_pressed...
Jan 26 06:45:03 <jsharkey> http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=core/res/res/drawable/btn_default.xml
Jan 26 06:45:28 <jsharkey> pressed / selected / enabled / focused  lol
Jan 26 06:46:02 <ErnestoGuevara> that looks perfect
Jan 26 06:46:04 <ErnestoGuevara> thanks a lot, man
Jan 26 06:46:28 <ErnestoGuevara> so i guess I can just specify stuff for my imagebutton in the xml without having to any kind of overriding
Jan 26 06:46:50 <jsharkey> ErnestoGuevara: be careful when writing one yourself
Jan 26 06:46:58 <ErnestoGuevara> .. yeah
Jan 26 06:47:00 <jsharkey> writing a selector can be tricky
Jan 26 06:47:12 <jsharkey> it walks its way down the list until something matches
Jan 26 06:47:20 <jsharkey> which is why the default state is at the bottom
Jan 26 06:47:37 <ErnestoGuevara> nod
Jan 26 06:47:40 <jsharkey> imho it seems to break xml (whihc shouldnt be order-dependant)
Jan 26 06:47:54 <ErnestoGuevara> not necessarily?
Jan 26 06:47:57 <ErnestoGuevara> dtd's specify order
Jan 26 06:48:03 <ErnestoGuevara> and xsd
Jan 26 06:48:20 <jsharkey> oh?  i thought that was only for explicit elements, where these are all the same "item"
Jan 26 06:48:23 <ErnestoGuevara> and xslt has a definite sense of "before" and "after"
Jan 26 06:48:34 <ErnestoGuevara> it depends on what meaning you assign sml
Jan 26 06:48:36 <ErnestoGuevara> *xml
Jan 26 06:48:50 <jsharkey> hmm iteresting
Jan 26 06:51:14 <ErnestoGuevara> sort of like saying the alphabet should or shouldn't be order-dependent, imo
Jan 26 06:51:24 <ErnestoGuevara> if you use the alphabet to make language, usually it is
Jan 26 06:51:35 <ErnestoGuevara> but if each letter of th alphabet describes a different object
Jan 26 06:51:45 <ErnestoGuevara> all of which are unsorted in a bag
Jan 26 06:51:52 <ErnestoGuevara> well, then it would be order-indepedent
Jan 26 06:52:02 <ErnestoGuevara> of course then I guess it would cease to be an alphbet
Jan 26 06:52:07 <ErnestoGuevara> easy to get lost in the philosophy
Jan 26 06:52:31 <jsharkey> lol we can always abstract to a higher level  ;)
Jan 26 06:53:52 <ErnestoGuevara> is selector really part of java.nio.channels?
Jan 26 06:54:24 <ErnestoGuevara> i would hoave thought it would extend drawable
Jan 26 06:54:28 <ErnestoGuevara> or something more than just object
Jan 26 06:54:46 <ErnestoGuevara> this must be a different selector..
Jan 26 06:54:59 <ErnestoGuevara> i fail at research.
Jan 26 07:02:26 <ErnestoGuevara> i think this spells it out for me explicitly:
Jan 26 07:02:27 <ErnestoGuevara> http://www.anddev.org/tinytutcustom_button_backgrounds-better_imagebutton-t4298.html
Jan 26 07:02:35 <ErnestoGuevara> thanks for the pointers, I'm heading to bed.
Jan 26 07:09:34 <ErnestoGuevara> ok i lied
Jan 26 07:09:38 <ErnestoGuevara> couldnt go to bed without trying it
Jan 26 07:09:43 <ErnestoGuevara> looks like it works perfectly
Jan 26 07:09:57 <ErnestoGuevara> jsharkey/jasta: owe you both a beer
Jan 26 12:16:50 <blau-MikeDG> any netbeans devs?
Jan 26 12:16:56 <blau-MikeDG> just in general, not for android
Jan 26 15:38:17 <graeme> Hi does anyone know what kind of device Linux should set up for G1 connected via USB ?
Jan 26 15:39:04 <vol> ... what?
Jan 26 15:39:05 <graeme> Is there anyone from Google on this channel ?
Jan 26 15:39:10 <vol> yes, several people
Jan 26 15:39:12 <vol> (NOT ME)
Jan 26 15:40:07 <graeme> OK. When connewcting a G1 via USB to a Linux dev Host, udev configures the device as seen by Linux.
Jan 26 15:40:28 <vol> ok
Jan 26 15:41:03 <graeme> My Fedora 10 systems configures the G1 as a SCSI mass storage device but adb devices does not see the attached G1
Jan 26 15:41:06 <vol> are you asking how to use adb with linux?
Jan 26 15:41:08 <vol> oh
Jan 26 15:41:10 <vol> http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware
Jan 26 15:41:13 <graeme> Yes
Jan 26 15:41:27 <vol> yeah, you don't need to mount the SD card when it prompts you
Jan 26 15:41:34 <vol> just make sure you set this up
Jan 26 15:41:39 <vol> or have adb server run as root
Jan 26 15:41:41 <graeme> Have folowed that but does not seem to work on Fedora 10 or Ubuntu 8.10
Jan 26 15:41:49 <vol> adb kill-server; sleep 1; sudo adb start-server;
Jan 26 15:42:08 <vol> make sure that the checkmark to allow debugging on device is checked in the settings
Jan 26 15:42:17 <vol> settings -> apps -> ... something
Jan 26 15:42:34 <graeme> so OK to get SCSI mass storage device but run adb with root permissions.
Jan 26 15:43:03 <graeme> Yes have set Settings/Applications to debug enabled on the G1
Jan 26 15:43:40 <vol> mounting the sd card to your linux machine is independant of adb
Jan 26 15:43:41 <graeme> I wondered if adb was expecting to see a certain kind of device
Jan 26 15:43:51 <vol> you can have adb working regardless of whether it mounts the card or not
Jan 26 15:44:04 <vol> graeme: it expects to see an android device :P
Jan 26 15:44:10 <vol> adb devices; what does that show? anything?
Jan 26 15:44:25 <graeme> absolutely zilch
Jan 26 15:45:36 <graeme> vol: well I'm asking Google people hear what kind of Linux device, as set by udev, does adb expect to talk to ?
Jan 26 15:46:26 <jsharkey> usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,devmode=0664,devgid=85)
Jan 26 15:46:35 <jsharkey> maybe?
Jan 26 15:49:17 <vol> regardless, running adb server as root always worked for me.
Jan 26 15:49:21 <graeme> vol: thanks running as root, adb devices returns List of devices attached
Jan 26 15:49:21 <graeme> HT846GZ39746	device
Jan 26 15:52:02 <graeme> vol: thanks for your help :)
Jan 26 16:45:41 <ido--> hrm. hello.
Jan 26 16:46:46 <CrashTest_> jsharkey: ping
Jan 26 16:48:36 <ionstorm> someone should create a quick n dirty tether app for root users, would be a market hit
Jan 26 16:48:47 <ionstorm> bluetooth and wifi tether
Jan 26 16:49:02 <Disconnect> learn java, its fun
Jan 26 16:49:37 <danderson> ionstorm: why wait for others? Implement it yourself
Jan 26 16:50:44 <ido--> can you tether without being root ?
Jan 26 16:51:20 <ionstorm> danderson, to me java is russian, python is english
Jan 26 16:51:31 <ionstorm> i dont know russian ;\ it annoys me
Jan 26 16:51:48 <danderson> meh, if you know python, java is fairly easy
Jan 26 16:51:52 <danderson> just extremely frustrating
Jan 26 16:51:54 <Disconnect> ido--: sorta. tetherbot
Jan 26 16:52:33 <ido--> i want to make an app which will have a shortcut on the desktop.
Jan 26 16:52:38 <ionstorm> java doesnt need to be so frustrating, hopefully it cleans up over time and i'll jump aboard
Jan 26 16:52:54 <danderson> feh
Jan 26 16:53:06 <ido--> how would i do that
Jan 26 16:53:08 <danderson> I have a dislike for the fundamentals of the language, not sure how much that can be cleaned up
Jan 26 16:53:32 <ido--> actually, i want 2 shortcuts, each one will launch my app in a different mode
Jan 26 16:54:53 <jsharkey> CrashTest_: hmm?
Jan 26 16:55:38 <ionstorm> im thinking in 5-10 years or less programming will be like writing sentences
Jan 26 16:55:52 <ionstorm> like anyone could do it, even my grandparents
Jan 26 16:55:54 <blau-MikeDG> ido
Jan 26 16:55:57 <blau-MikeDG> ill walk you through it
Jan 26 16:56:04 <ido--> sure.. I'm listening
Jan 26 16:56:06 <blau-MikeDG> you mean desktop and not launcher right?
Jan 26 16:56:29 <ido--> doesn't really matter which..
Jan 26 16:56:38 <CrashTest_> Hi jsharkey. You did a comparison app, correct?
Jan 26 16:56:45 <blau-MikeDG> launcher is easier, but people bitch about having too many icons
Jan 26 16:56:46 <herriojr> ionstorm: I doubt it, most people don't care to program
Jan 26 16:56:57 <ido--> I'm don't think it'll get marketed anyway. i just need a shell script launcher..
Jan 26 16:57:24 <ido--> well you're right about that. so maybe desktop would be a better choice since i want it more useful.
Jan 26 16:57:32 <ionstorm> thats why programming needs to change
Jan 26 16:58:48 <blau-MikeDG> ok ill pm you for the desktop stuff
Jan 26 16:59:34 <vol> ionstorm: what's wrong with java
Jan 26 17:00:00 <vol> speaking off tethering, is there any way to tether the G1 via usb, but so that the computer provides the network connection instead of vice versa?
Jan 26 17:01:03 <morgan> vol: that might be a better question for #android
Jan 26 17:01:47 <vol> I suppose I'll ask there then
Jan 26 17:02:34 <kRutOn> That's strange. http://review.source.android.com/ says the address has changed, but the authoritative nameserver is returning the same IP address
Jan 26 17:04:30 <jbq> kRutOn: it's in the process of being changed, it's expected to all be OK in a matter of hours.
Jan 26 17:04:39 <kRutOn> jbq: cool
Jan 26 17:04:50 <ionstorm> vol I think its bloated
Jan 26 17:04:56 <vol> explain.
Jan 26 17:05:12 <jbq> There's a race condition between one person updating the site and another actually changing the DNS, and we wanted to avoid it by preemptively updating the site.
Jan 26 17:05:17 <vol> are you saying there are too many libraries that ship by default?
Jan 26 17:05:24 <vol> that's not really a problem with the language
Jan 26 17:05:32 <CrashTest_> jsharkey: is the source for Compare-Everywhere available, or is it a different type of free?  I would like to use the code as a basis for making a G1 version of Delicious Library (http://www.delicious-monster.com/)
Jan 26 17:06:38 <ido--> has anyone figured out how to turn GPRS on or off?
Jan 26 17:06:43 <CrashTest_> It would function a lot like your app, however it would have lists that were sortable, plus a couple of other things I can't remember at the moment :)
Jan 26 17:06:44 <ionstorm> vol, the Java approach is a "Law of Demeter" sin. It hard-wires the "path" of the resource into the application code.
Jan 26 17:07:24 <ido--> I think this could be "done" by changing the APN to something wrong (thats how i manually do it). - how do i do that in code ?
Jan 26 17:07:42 <kRutOn> ionstorm: People actually remember Demeter? Or did just the law survive...
Jan 26 17:08:46 <vol> ionstorm: you need to specifiy what you're talking about somehow. if I have two classes named Foo, I need to specify which one I want to use. This is especially important if you use libraries where this may very well happen.
Jan 26 17:09:07 <kRutOn> I've known Doug Orleans before he spent a decade trying to find his Ph.D. thesis topic and did all the Demeter stuff
Jan 26 17:09:36 <CrashTest_> argh, need more coffee
Jan 26 17:09:51 <vol> the law of demeter also sounds like wonderful ivory tower computer science rather than something useful
Jan 26 17:10:06 <vol> in a perfect world I'm sure we'd all just be writing lisp
Jan 26 17:12:13 <CrashTest_> In a slightly less perfect world, I would know what you two were talking about.  Oh yeah, there's wikipedia :)
Jan 26 17:12:34 <kRutOn> One time I saw the last page of a super secret LISP program. Its contents were: )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Jan 26 17:13:59 <vol> kRutOn: whatever. Secret projects should be coded in Whitespace
Jan 26 17:14:08 <vol> you can print that out and take it with you and NO ONE WILL KNOW.
Jan 26 17:15:12 <blau-MikeDG> the barcode stuff is available
Jan 26 17:15:17 <blau-MikeDG> in the zxing library i thi nk
Jan 26 17:15:44 <kRutOn> vol: encoded with 0x00 0x32 and 0x80
Jan 26 17:16:39 <kRutOn> er, 0x20
Jan 26 17:16:44 <ido--> wtf my phone has gone MAD
Jan 26 17:16:51 <ido--> i called myself and disconnected
Jan 26 17:16:56 <ido--> and now it doesnt stop vibrating
Jan 26 17:17:14 <blau-MikeDG> i had that happen a time or two
Jan 26 17:17:35 <ido--> weird
Jan 26 17:18:02 <ido--> i called myself because people (3 different people) told me today that i wasnt availible and the phnoe was will full barsall day with me
Jan 26 17:18:12 <vol> ido--: just put it on your crotch and call it a net win
Jan 26 17:18:30 <CrashTest_> lol
Jan 26 17:41:40 <CrashTest_> I am guessing that jsharke_y is pretty busy right about now :)
Jan 26 17:50:28 <herriojr> I'm assuming with an SQLiteQueryBuilder, if you don't provide a projection map, it uses the raw projection keys for the column names?
Jan 26 17:56:14 <ido--> is the terminal source open source?
Jan 26 17:57:11 <zhobbs> ido--: what terminal
Jan 26 17:57:21 <ido--> terminal emulator
Jan 26 17:57:55 <jbq> ido--: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/development.git;a=tree;f=apps/Term;h=1f861e5a88110340242c163af1f3d8b52f27ab4c;hb=HEAD
Jan 26 17:59:01 <ido--> oh thanks :)
Jan 26 17:59:22 <ido--> i'm heard it wasthere, andalready 5 minutes looking for it and couldnt fintit
Jan 26 18:02:26 <ido--> git clone git://android.git.kernel.org/projects/platform/development.git/apps/Term
Jan 26 18:02:32 <ido--> it this command correct
Jan 26 18:02:41 <ido--> I'm getting a remote hungup error msg
Jan 26 18:07:03 <zhobbs> ido--: take a look at source.android.com
Jan 26 18:07:12 <zhobbs> ido--: it has instructions for getting the sources
Jan 26 18:08:14 <ido--> weird.
Jan 26 18:08:25 <ido--> i used to fetch sources just fine a while ago..
Jan 26 18:08:39 <ido--> anyhow, i used the snapshot tgz download
Jan 26 18:29:55 <jsharkey> eek crashtest left
Jan 26 18:30:20 <jsharkey> if he comes back, someone should point him towards romainguy who open-sourced a delicious-like android app
Jan 26 18:32:50 <romainguy> jsharkey: what did he want?
Jan 26 18:36:34 <kRutOn> romainguy: To reuse code in Compare Everywhere to make a Delicious Library-like app
Jan 26 18:53:40 <tauno> an idea - I'll try to make an app that converts the messy Sony-Ericsson contact format back to a readable format
Jan 26 18:54:59 <tauno> ..I can finally try to mess with my contacts - I give myself 30 mins - in this time I'm sure that I have accidentally deleted all my contacts and I give up :P
Jan 26 18:56:25 <ido--> ehe
Jan 26 18:56:36 <ido--> the SE contacts from the SIM ?
Jan 26 18:57:30 <TD> tauno: ah. i looked at that a bit. problem is some of the names are probably truncated.
Jan 26 18:57:30 <tauno> yes
Jan 26 18:57:42 <tauno> TD, in what way?
Jan 26 18:58:13 <TD> tauno: SIM contacts have a max of 16 chars, or something very low. So you might have "1/Smith;Ro" for "Robert Smith", for example
Jan 26 18:58:37 <tauno> in my case everything is Doe;John..
Jan 26 18:58:49 <tauno> I see.. I haven't looked into bigger names
Jan 26 18:58:53 <tauno> let me check.
Jan 26 18:59:02 <TD> the 1/ 2/ 3/ prefixes are for different phone numbers attached to the same contacts
Jan 26 18:59:06 <TD> let me check something for you
Jan 26 18:59:26 <TD> brb
Jan 26 19:03:41 <TD_> hm, sorry
Jan 26 19:04:03 <TD> the solution i was going to give you, i can't :(
Jan 26 19:07:44 <TD> sorry. my irc client freaked out
Jan 26 19:08:21 <tauno_> did I miss anything? the router here got tired and dropped my connection :/
Jan 26 19:08:41 <TD> hah. 0 points for communication
Jan 26 19:08:55 <TD> i think the only thing you missed was me saying  "sorry, my irc client freaked out"
Jan 26 19:09:02 <tauno_> ok :)
Jan 26 19:09:07 <TD> tauno_: how important is it that you sync your contacts?
Jan 26 19:09:34 <tauno_> TD, what do you mean by "I can't"? :P
Jan 26 19:09:52 <tauno_> TD, sync? as in sync with gmail?
Jan 26 19:10:02 <TD> well, move your contacts from your SE phone to the android phone
Jan 26 19:10:08 <tauno_> done
Jan 26 19:10:23 <TD> i mean in a non-corrupted form :) unless all your friends have very short names ...
Jan 26 19:10:37 <tauno_> they have - I have only 1 corrupted one :)
Jan 26 19:10:44 <TD> heh, no problem then
Jan 26 19:10:45 <tauno_> just checked :)
Jan 26 19:10:58 <tauno_> I have lots of john does :)
Jan 26 19:12:33 <tauno_> TD, well I moved the contacts to the G1.. and then? (:
Jan 26 19:13:05 <TD> i guess there's no problem, if all your contacts moved successfully
Jan 26 19:13:38 <tauno_> they are all in Doe;John format - that's my problem :)
Jan 26 19:13:52 <tauno_> they are not shortened or anything like that.. they are just wrongly formatted
Jan 26 19:13:52 <TD> yeah. well writing an app to fix that isn't too hard.
Jan 26 19:14:10 <tauno_> hmm.. yeah.. I'm doing it currently :)
Jan 26 19:39:20 <ido--> if i want to import a class not in the sdk, how do i do it ? (so far i've build the full sources to get those library classes..)
Jan 26 19:45:54 <ctate> hm.  that is probably a bad idea in general... what are you trying to accomplish?
Jan 26 19:49:26 <ido--> building something for my own use
Jan 26 19:49:49 <ido--> so i can build it later if it won't be in the framework in the future
Jan 26 19:51:29 <digitalspaghetti> what column in the image MediaStore is the physical location of the file?
Jan 26 19:54:03 <digitalspaghetti> .DATA
Jan 26 19:54:08 <vol> ido--: include it with your project
Jan 26 19:54:12 <vol> that's the best thing I can suggest
Jan 26 19:55:58 <ido--> how do i know which file vol ?
Jan 26 19:56:17 <ido--> i'm interested in android.os.Exec
Jan 26 19:56:45 <vol> you want to include that actual file from the framework?
Jan 26 19:56:51 <vol> Bear in mind that some of these files have native calls
Jan 26 19:57:02 <vol> so you'd have to compare a shared lib for them to load before use
Jan 26 19:58:31 <ctate> android.os.Exec does indeed have native methods.
Jan 26 19:59:50 <vol> There's also the issue that if you include FOSS in your code, your code very well may become FOSS itself, necessitating that you give away the source upon request
Jan 26 20:00:12 <vol> which is why the android framework exists away from your code, and is not directly linked with it.
Jan 26 20:00:20 <TD> vol: except android is apache licensed
Jan 26 20:00:24 <TD> vol: which doesn't have that requirement ....
Jan 26 20:00:30 <vol> TD: you and your logic
Jan 26 20:00:36 <vol> I thought it was BSD, I guess I was wrong
Jan 26 20:00:37 <TD> ido--: i think you can use reflection, although it's sort of a pain ....
Jan 26 20:00:59 <TD> vol: well bsd would also not impose that requirement, but it's apache (except for a few parts like the kernel)
Jan 26 20:01:12 <ido--> hrm.
Jan 26 20:01:27 <ido--> as i said, its for personal use, so i care less about licenses and stuff
Jan 26 20:01:44 <ido--> i mean, not that i'd mind to distribute it
Jan 26 20:14:18 <ido--> vol ?
Jan 26 20:29:59 <vol> ido-- ?
Jan 26 20:55:59 <ido--> so how would i do that then
Jan 26 20:58:15 <morgan> if you just need to call one method from a.os.Exec reflection might be easier
Jan 26 20:59:02 <ido--> hrm. yes i need only a few calls.
Jan 26 20:59:19 <ido--> could you assist me with that ? I've never done reflection in java.
Jan 26 21:00:01 <morgan> sorry, i have a conf call. google it
Jan 26 21:00:11 <ido--> ok..
Jan 26 21:01:13 <TD> if I force the orientation of an activity, are activities i start from that one meant to inherit that orientation?
Jan 26 21:01:19 <morgan> ido--: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/reflect/member/methodInvocation.html
Jan 26 21:01:21 <TD> my reading of the docs is "no" but that appears to be what hapens
Jan 26 21:01:29 <ido--> thanks !
Jan 26 21:01:37 <ido--> I'm already at it
Jan 26 21:01:59 <zhobbs> TD: yeah, that seems to happen
Jan 26 21:02:18 <zhobbs> maybe if you start the activity with that NEW_TASK flag or something
Jan 26 21:03:51 <TD> that'd make it do the wrong thing though. it's logically one task.
Jan 26 21:04:15 <zhobbs> yeah
Jan 26 21:11:43 <TD> is it evil/wrong to set android:configChanges="orientation|keyboardHidden" if my activity doesn't need to do anything special on rotation? it already has the right behavior if i specify these things
Jan 26 21:11:52 <TD> just wondering if there's a bad consequence i'm unaware of
Jan 26 21:13:27 <TD> zhobbs: ah no, i'm wrong. the docs say quite clearly
Jan 26 21:13:28 <TD> "No preference specified: let the system decide the best orientation. This will either be the orientation selected by the activity below, or the user's preferred orientation if this activity is the bottom of a task."
Jan 26 21:13:37 <TD> so i have to explicitly tell it to re-orient the next activity to whatever is "right"
Jan 26 21:47:34 <herriojr> is the sms table joined with the People table?
Jan 26 21:48:33 <herriojr> and how come the sms table contains the contact id and calls doesn't (someone tried to say that because a contact may not be associated with a call log, but it's the same as with sms)
Jan 26 22:29:30 <romainguy> TD: is it evil/wrong to set android:configChanges="orientation|keyboardHidden" if my activity doesn't need to do anything special on rotation? it already has the right behavior if i specify these things << it kinda is
Jan 26 22:32:03 <TD> romainguy: what's the downside?
Jan 26 22:32:30 <romainguy> you cannot use alternative resources (layout-land, drawable-land, etc.)
Jan 26 22:32:40 <TD> right. but my app doesn't and i don't anticipate a need to change that currently
Jan 26 22:32:48 <TD> it just seems like a good way to save myself some extra work
Jan 26 22:34:38 <romainguy> what extra work?
Jan 26 22:36:39 <TD> handling the restart correctly. the activity looks a little different for a few seconds until an http connection is established, then it modifies an imageview with the contents of the downloaded image. i can handle the activity being killed and coming back, it resyncs with the backing service, but it's not completely seamless.
Jan 26 22:36:46 <TD> whereas if i let android just relayout my gui, it's seamless
Jan 26 22:39:12 <romainguy> you can make it seamless very easily
Jan 26 22:39:55 <romainguy> see http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Activity.html#onRetainNonConfigurationInstance()
Jan 26 23:08:17 <TD> romainguy: yes but what's the benefit of writing that extra code vs 1 xml attribute? what do i lose ....
Jan 26 23:38:17 <vol> TD: generally, flexability.
Jan 26 23:38:26 <vol> You can write your entire app with java code and not touch XML
Jan 26 23:38:36 <vol> but it will be more brittle
Jan 26 23:38:48 <vol> it is also extremely helpful if you have some less technical team members who are there to do UI work
Jan 26 23:39:04 <vol> they can play with XML files without worrying about making things compile or having things in the wrong order, etc
Jan 26 23:42:26 <cliffstar> hey folks, anyone home? my javac segfaults when i build, right off the bat - os x
Jan 26 23:42:48 <ctate> what are you building?
Jan 26 23:44:00 <cliffstar> just running make, building android
Jan 26 23:44:45 <cliffstar> sorry, rather foolishly i am actually on my g1, let me switch.
Jan 26 23:45:34 <cliffstah> There we go.
Jan 26 23:47:47 <cliffstah> this is as far as it gets.. http://pastebin.com/m69990071
Jan 26 23:47:50 <cliffstah> (not very far, at all).
Jan 26 23:48:53 <ctate> bah, pastebin is AWOL
Jan 26 23:49:40 <cliffstah> want me to paste it elsewhere?
Jan 26 23:51:59 <ctate> ah, there it is
Jan 26 23:52:10 <ctate> .... well, that's less than helpful.
Jan 26 23:52:16 <cliffstah> lol, quite.
Jan 26 23:52:34 <ctate> the two possible reasons i can think of are (a) your javac is old/buggy/out of date/whatever
Jan 26 23:52:38 <ctate> and (b) you're running out of memory
Jan 26 23:52:46 <cliffstah> 4GB with nothing else running
Jan 26 23:52:51 <ctate> how much RAM is ... yeah, that's not likely then.
Jan 26 23:52:58 <cliffstah> and my javac is what comes with Leopard + updates
Jan 26 23:53:12 <ctate> conceivably there's something messed up in the source tree but yuck.
Jan 26 23:53:24 <ctate> that is about the limit of my ability to diagnose this, i'm afraid.
Jan 26 23:53:28 <cliffstah> I have a choice, 1.5 x86/64 or 1.6 64
Jan 26 23:53:44 <ctate> whichever you're using, try the other one
Jan 26 23:53:48 <cliffstah> I tried all of them
Jan 26 23:53:49 <cliffstah> lol
Jan 26 23:54:06 <ctate> fwiw, i'm using javac 1.5.0_13
Jan 26 23:54:12 <ctate> dunno whether it's 64 bit
Jan 26 23:54:18 <cliffstah> platform?
Jan 26 23:54:22 <ctate> Leopard
Jan 26 23:54:25 <cliffstah> hm k
Jan 26 23:54:47 <ctate> oh, what file system are you running this on?
Jan 26 23:54:59 <cliffstah> HFS+ case sensitive
Jan 26 23:55:04 <ctate> Android needs a case-sensitive file system... ok, good.
Jan 26 23:55:16 <cliffstah> yup, I followed the setup instructions
Jan 26 23:55:23 <ctate> good good
Jan 26 23:55:25 <cliffstah> Quanta:source crowley$ javac -version
Jan 26 23:55:25 <cliffstah> javac 1.5.0_16
Jan 26 23:55:54 <cliffstah> (fyi, in case you didnt know, you can switch JVM using the 'java preferences' app)
Jan 26 23:56:00 <cliffstah> jvm/jdk
Jan 26 23:56:23 <cliffstah> also says there whether its 32 or 64 bit
Jan 26 23:57:32 <ctate> i'm just using whatever they set up for me :)
Jan 26 23:58:54 * cliffstah scratches head
Jan 27 00:00:15 <cliffstah> I'll work on it, thanks for your help :-)
Jan 27 00:00:25 <ctate> g/l
Jan 27 00:18:16 <ido--> hrm. anyone worked with multitouch code yet ?
Jan 27 01:13:45 <savid> I'm creating an app that allows you to create shortcuts.  Launching a shortcut /should/ do some stuff in the background, and display a toast when it's done (no ui).   What's the best way to do this?   If I have the shortcut launch an activity,  the activity stays in the foreground until the task is completed, and I don't want that...
Jan 27 01:22:20 <savid> Is it possible to simply launch the activity in the background?
Jan 27 01:26:03 <savid> I've thought about using a service, but this isn't intended to run indefinitely..  Just in the background until the task completes.
Jan 27 01:31:20 <jbq> Services don't have to run forever.
Jan 27 01:31:49 <jbq> You can start it when you need it to do something, and have it stop itself when it's done.
Jan 27 01:32:51 <savid> jbq, hmm, ok..    I also just found out about  FLAG_ACTIVITY_MULTIPLE_TASK..   would that make more sense?  or would it be better practice to just use a service?
Jan 27 01:33:23 <jbq> don't tie background stuff to activities. You'll regret it.
Jan 27 01:34:05 <jbq> The original implementation (before I took it over) of the download manager was tied to an activity. It didn't work.
Jan 27 01:35:25 <savid> Ahh,  ok.   thanks for the advice :-)
Jan 27 01:35:31 <savid> service it is, then
Jan 27 01:36:37 <jbq> You don't have to have a binder API for it (that's the scary part). Just look at (IIRC) Context.startService and (I think) Service.stopSelf.
Jan 27 01:42:29 <savid> cool, thanks
Jan 27 01:42:52 <g1bb_> hiya
Jan 27 01:43:51 <savid> I'm assuming an Intent can resolve to a service?
Jan 27 01:44:07 <jbq> not through the same mechanism as activities.
Jan 27 01:44:22 <jbq> (and definitely not through the same APIs)
Jan 27 01:45:11 <savid> hmm, so what's the best way to launch my service from a shortcut?
Jan 27 01:45:21 <savid> (or an intent, I should say)
Jan 27 01:48:17 <g1bb> anyone know how market updates will be handled? for example, will devs have to build updates in?
Jan 27 01:51:27 <asdfa> been waiting for that forever
Jan 27 01:51:35 <asdfa> looks like i'm just gonna make my own
Jan 27 01:54:18 <savid> asdfa, there's an app called ATrackDog that tracks updates
Jan 27 01:54:56 <savid> but I don't think it runs in the background,  so no notifications on when apps have updates available
Jan 27 01:54:57 <asdfa> i dont want it to be third party
Jan 27 01:55:50 <savid> gotcha
Jan 27 02:46:32 <ctate> cliffstah: how much disk space free do you have?  just fishing for reasons your javac step might be failing
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