**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 02 02:59:57 2009
Mar 02 04:44:40 <joakime> Do you need android.permission.READ_OWNER_DATA to read/write to the sdcard ?
Mar 02 04:46:46 <romainguy> no
Mar 02 04:47:19 <joakime> romainguy: ok, i'm not sure I where I picked that up.
Mar 02 04:47:23 * joakime removes that permission.
Mar 02 05:19:04 <rsteckler> Xml preferences are sick.
Mar 02 05:19:21 <rsteckler> Amazing how easy some stuff is, and how fricken hard others are  =
Mar 02 05:26:33 <romainguy> what's hard??
Mar 02 05:28:01 <rsteckler> getting started understanding how orientation switches happen, managed dialogs, drawable callbacks, and the interaction of all of those put together.
Mar 02 05:28:26 <romainguy> I wouldn't call that hard but ok :)
Mar 02 05:28:44 <romainguy> (and drawable callbacks should not matter unless you do weird things with Drawables, like keeping them around)
Mar 02 05:28:49 <rsteckler> e.g.  Getting a long running network task with an indeterminate, managed progress dialog to continue running during an orientation change.
Mar 02 05:28:56 <romainguy> meh :)
Mar 02 05:29:14 <rsteckler> heh. Easy for you to say.  Everything is easy when you're chin deep in it...
Mar 02 05:29:45 <romainguy> I had to learn once too you know :)
Mar 02 05:29:58 <romainguy> it's just that these things are not what I consider hard programming task
Mar 02 05:30:00 <romainguy> +s
Mar 02 05:30:58 <rsteckler> sure.  Not hard, like phd hard.  But comparing how easy it is to get a preference screen up and running (with xml) that saves your prefs automatically, etc.  Changing screen orientation seems to give a lot of people problems.
Mar 02 05:31:15 <rsteckler> It's not a criticism.  Just an observance...
Mar 02 05:32:02 <rsteckler> My dayjob is "hard".  This is fun  =)
Mar 02 05:33:12 <rsteckler> Any reason I should have a different private key for each of my apks?
Mar 02 05:33:21 <romainguy> you don't
Mar 02 05:33:29 <romainguy> I mean it's up to you :)
Mar 02 05:33:52 <rsteckler> no security reason or anything, though?
Mar 02 05:36:51 <romainguy> unless you get your private key stolen, no
Mar 02 05:58:26 <joakime> if you use the same <application android:sharedUserId=""> for many apps, then you _must_ have the same signature key in use, otherwise the adb install fails.
Mar 02 06:02:28 <rsteckler> joakime: Good to know - I'm not in that situation (thankfully, since I just created a new key  =))
Mar 02 06:20:07 <_avatar> is there any way to diagnose why hierarchyviewer isn't working for me? i have two computers and two devices, i can't get it to work on any computer + device combination i try.
Mar 02 06:20:26 <_avatar> the app launches, all toolbar buttons are disabled except for "start server," which doesn't appear to do anything when i press it
Mar 02 06:20:52 <_avatar> this machine i'm on right now is running 32 bit vista.
Mar 02 06:33:59 <romainguy> _avatar: HierarchyViewer cannot work with production devices
Mar 02 06:34:11 <romainguy> security reasons
Mar 02 06:34:24 <_avatar> romainguy: i have a dev phone
Mar 02 06:35:04 <_avatar> but i didn't know that :)
Mar 02 06:35:22 <romainguy> yeah, the dev phone has a production firmware
Mar 02 06:35:33 <romainguy> the problem is that hierarchyviewer lets you inspect too many things
Mar 02 06:35:48 <romainguy> in particular the text of edittexts
Mar 02 06:35:51 <romainguy> like password fields
Mar 02 06:35:56 <_avatar> yeah, makes sense.
Mar 02 06:36:32 <romainguy> same reason why the debugger doesn't work by default on any process
Mar 02 06:36:41 <romainguy> with the eng builds you can attach the debugger on any process
Mar 02 06:36:47 <romainguy> without using debuggable=true in the manifest
Mar 02 06:37:33 <_avatar> well, the dev phone i have here actually belongs to you guys (google), you've let our company borrow it for development purposes
Mar 02 06:37:44 <_avatar> i wrote the amazonmp3 app, heh
Mar 02 06:37:49 <romainguy> ah
Mar 02 06:37:55 <romainguy> it's you who used so many views
Mar 02 06:38:03 <_avatar> yes :(
Mar 02 06:38:04 <romainguy> you're still my reference of what not to do :))
Mar 02 06:38:05 <_avatar> i'm a very bad person
Mar 02 06:38:08 <romainguy> lol
Mar 02 06:38:08 <romainguy> anyway
Mar 02 06:38:15 <romainguy> that phone probably doesn't have an eng build
Mar 02 06:38:18 <romainguy> (or userdebug)
Mar 02 06:38:27 <romainguy> you can check easily
Mar 02 06:38:31 <romainguy> run adb shell getprop
Mar 02 06:39:03 <romainguy> er
Mar 02 06:39:10 <romainguy> adb shell getprop ro.secure
Mar 02 06:39:15 <romainguy> if it says "1", you're screwed :)
Mar 02 06:39:21 <_avatar> says 0 :D
Mar 02 06:40:57 <_avatar> fwiw, i'd really like to get the complex listview item stuff cleaned up, but i don't work on the mp3 client full time. i try to tinker with it when i have free time because i enjoy working with the platform
Mar 02 06:41:13 <xlv-labs> ho do you figure out if the network connection is 2G or 3G? NetworkInfo only gives mobile vs Wifi
Mar 02 06:41:14 <_avatar> which is why i'd like to get hiearchyviewer working
Mar 02 06:41:36 <_avatar> xlv-labs: that info should be in the TelephonyManager
Mar 02 06:42:26 <xlv-labs> _avatar: OK, thanks
Mar 02 06:43:25 <romainguy> _avatar: then reboot your device :)
Mar 02 06:45:51 <_avatar> romainguy: erm, that seems to have worked. why was the reboot necessary?
Mar 02 06:45:57 <romainguy> no idea
Mar 02 06:46:03 <romainguy> the ViewServer probably crashed
Mar 02 06:46:30 <_avatar> ah. well, at any rate, thanks :)
Mar 02 06:46:40 <romainguy> any time :)
Mar 02 06:46:42 <_avatar> i suppose i should have tried that before asking
Mar 02 06:46:46 <anno^da_> romainguy: thanks for your layout tricks entries.
Mar 02 06:46:52 <romainguy> glad you like them
Mar 02 06:46:54 <romainguy> more are coming :)
Mar 02 06:47:53 <_avatar> so, here's a layout related question...
Mar 02 06:48:00 <anno^da_> ah fine. Yeah the small hints are quite nice.
Mar 02 06:48:46 <_avatar> the rows in the amazonmp3 listview usually use a 3 column layout. album art on the left, details in the middle, a buy button on the right. right now i'm using a linearlayout to do this. can i accomplish the same thing with a relativelayout?
Mar 02 06:49:11 <romainguy> you should be able to yes
Mar 02 06:49:28 <_avatar> ok cool, i'll play with it a bit then.
Mar 02 06:53:49 <anno^da_> Are there any problems known that vibration and sound triggered through the notification system don't work after a unedfined amount of time? I'm using them quite often and I have recognized that sometimes this stops working. Only rebooting helps to solve this problem. - In the situation where it is not working it only works for default apps like the messaging app. (but they use some closed classes for that task) Every 3rd party app that 
Mar 02 06:58:46 <local> Does anyone know how to create a normal (direction) based on the android cameras direction?
Mar 02 07:00:31 <local> What I mean is, how to map the Orientation into normalized xyz coordinates?
Mar 02 07:00:50 <rsteckler> I think you would use the compass, not the accellerometer....
Mar 02 07:01:25 <rsteckler> anno^da_: I wrote an app that does vibrations with the notification system and haven't had any problems at all...
Mar 02 07:01:30 <local> yes :) But how
Mar 02 07:02:35 <rsteckler> I would look at the api demos - compass.java
Mar 02 07:03:00 <local> I have .. but they dont map to xyz
Mar 02 07:04:10 <rsteckler> Oh - I see what you mean.  You want to do the wikitude thing.
Mar 02 07:04:44 <local> wikitude?
Mar 02 07:05:45 <rsteckler> yea - whatever you look at through the camera, it tells you the landmark info.  Point the camera at the empire state building, it tells you about it, etc
Mar 02 07:06:03 <rsteckler> If streetview is open source, it uses the same concept.  You may be able to see how they do it there.
Mar 02 07:06:38 * rsteckler isn't much help...
Mar 02 07:11:22 <local> I will check it out, thanx rsteckler
Mar 02 10:56:01 <local> Damnit, cant get it to work
Mar 02 11:31:40 <local> If I create a vector based on the Magnetic field values (compass) and normalize it. Then I get a correct direction vector whith north/south (x), west/east (y) and z, right? This must be correct ? :)
Mar 02 12:28:28 <anno^da_> Can someone tell me why the SMS Received action is triggered before the database storing the SMS is updated ?
Mar 02 17:26:31 <Frostshock> is it possible add stored procedures in the people schema?
Mar 02 17:40:03 <donpdonp> Frostshock: lol. sqlite3 doesnt even enforce column types.
Mar 02 17:43:20 <Frostshock> i want to add a "CREATE TRIGGER" on the peoples table
Mar 02 17:44:25 <Frostshock> and i dont even know if its possible due to permissions?
Mar 02 17:48:38 <zhobbs> Frostshock: I don't think you can get direct access to the sqlite db for the contacts
Mar 02 17:49:42 <Frostshock> zhobbs: ok, do you know of any other way to trigger and action when a contact is deleted/added or updated?
Mar 02 17:49:53 <Frostshock> *an
Mar 02 17:51:04 <zhobbs> Frostshock: not unless there is an Intent broadcasted
Mar 02 17:51:46 <zhobbs> can we use ACTION_VOICE_COMMAND in our apps?
Mar 02 17:51:57 <zhobbs> to do speech to text?
Mar 02 17:54:16 <zhobbs> hmm, looks like it just pulls up the generic voice command dialog....would be cool to be able to invoke the one google uses for the voice search
Mar 02 17:54:27 <zhobbs> and just get the text back in the result
Mar 02 18:43:26 <millenomi> so.
Mar 02 18:44:05 <millenomi> I got back from my alma mater.
Mar 02 18:44:35 <millenomi> and they're in cahoots with STMicroelectronics,
Mar 02 18:44:42 <millenomi> whose Nomadik board has a FM radio.
Mar 02 18:44:55 <millenomi> so I've been tasked to glue the radio to the Android app userspace.
Mar 02 18:45:08 <millenomi> ...
Mar 02 18:45:11 <millenomi> is this the right chan?
Mar 02 18:45:24 <mpardo> Why would my app not be signed correctly? I tried installing it from the market and it failed.
Mar 02 19:41:31 <morganx> mpardo: do you already have a test-key version of the app installed via adb?
Mar 02 19:41:43 <morganx> if so you need to 'adb remove' it
Mar 02 19:49:41 <vol> millenomi: probably, you might get better results talking to the mailing list though
Mar 02 19:49:55 <millenomi> I will, thank you.
Mar 02 19:50:02 <millenomi> also: #android was helpful :D
Mar 02 19:50:21 <millenomi> repo sync'ing atm.
Mar 02 21:07:29 <tbr> how can i determine whether the device is currently locked or not?
Mar 02 21:16:31 <vol> tbr: adb shell
Mar 02 21:30:18 <jlgosse> hey guys, is there any kind of OCR or on-line recognition APIs for android?
Mar 02 23:51:19 <DB42> does dalvik run interpreted all the way ?
Mar 02 23:51:30 <romainguy_> currently yes
Mar 02 23:52:16 <DB42> so an arm can basically run multithreded dalvik interpred code pretty fast?
Mar 02 23:52:31 <zinx> fast enough, apparently
Mar 02 23:52:51 <DB42> how much does dalvik being implmented as it is (like register based) help it run faster then java ? (i mean in how much % +-)
Mar 02 23:56:10 <DB42> or would java bytecode run just as fast ?
Mar 02 23:56:26 <zinx> impossible to say
Mar 02 23:57:15 <kencausey> does interpreted here mean a bytecode interpreter? or actual source code interpreter?
Mar 02 23:57:23 <DB42> bytecode ofcourse
Mar 02 23:57:39 <DB42> running source code interpreter would be suicide i guess
Mar 02 23:58:05 <DB42> really ? nobody tried doing a speed comparison of java and dalvik ?
Mar 02 23:58:21 <zinx> there is no "java"
Mar 02 23:58:42 <kencausey> yes, I'm trying to understand what the compasion might be against
Mar 02 23:58:50 <zinx> there's the sun java interpreter, ibm java interpreter, microsoft java interpereter, etc etc
Mar 02 23:58:59 <DB42> an arm runing a java implmentation
Mar 02 23:59:05 <zinx> none of those are suited for the phone though
Mar 02 23:59:10 <kencausey> that's what dalvik is, isn't it?
Mar 02 23:59:21 <zinx> dalvik is a dex interpreter :D
Mar 02 23:59:23 <DB42> no
Mar 03 00:00:08 <kencausey> ok, I see, not a stack-based VM
Mar 03 00:01:19 <grey-> dalvik is presumably similar to the danger/sidekick java implementation.
Mar 03 00:01:48 <DB42> the dalvik interpreter is open source ?
Mar 03 00:02:24 <romainguy_> it is
Mar 03 00:02:34 <romainguy_> source.android.com
Mar 03 00:02:40 <DB42> so couldn't it be compiled to an x86 platform and compare speed with a java interpreter there/
Mar 03 00:02:53 <romainguy_> you could
Mar 03 00:02:54 <kencausey> huh, author worked at Danger
Mar 03 00:03:01 <romainguy_> although it has tons of ARM specific optimizations
Mar 03 00:03:07 <romainguy_> so the comparison would be skewed
Mar 03 00:12:06 <DB42> i see
Mar 03 00:12:12 <DB42> still would be a nice thing to try :)
Mar 03 00:17:38 <joakime> Is a ContentProvider the best way to implement persisted storage of various settings across many apps?
Mar 03 00:18:31 <jbq> That'd be my guess.
Mar 03 00:18:52 <joakime> jbq: thanks.
Mar 03 00:19:47 <joakime> Just sucks that you have to have a 'main' app to house that mechanism.  esp if you rely on a collection of apps that have overlapping but not hierarchical installation requirements.
Mar 03 00:19:48 <jbq> Depending on the complexity of the settings data, a bindable service could also be appropriate.
Mar 03 00:24:36 <joakime> jbq: if the data is simple key/value string pairs, tops 3 entries. then couldn't you (in theory) utilize the existing Settings.System mechanism?
Mar 03 00:24:55 <jbq> Maybe, though I don't know how much that can be shared between apps.
Mar 03 00:25:11 <joakime> hmm.
Mar 03 00:25:24 * joakime creates AppDataApp
Mar 03 01:00:49 <yllus> hey guys - is there a thorough reference on doing layouts in XML online somewhere? I can't seem to find it on the developer site
Mar 03 01:01:08 <yllus> droiddraw.org is helpful, but I'd love a complete ref to look at
Mar 03 01:03:26 <jt436> have you looked at the sdk examples?
Mar 03 01:06:09 <yllus> yeah, but I was hoping for a page that lists all the various layout attributes and what they do
Mar 03 01:06:30 <romainguy_> use the Eclipse plugin
Mar 03 01:06:41 <romainguy_> also, the XML attributes are listed in the javadoc of each view
Mar 03 01:07:07 <yllus> The regular plugin, or is there something specific for Eclipse for layout?
Mar 03 01:07:15 <romainguy_> the regular plugin
Mar 03 02:45:06 <khert> my app saves PNG files in a directory on the SD card.  Is there a way to make the Pictures app display them without rebooting the phone?
Mar 03 02:51:38 <KNY> khert, put them in the /sdcard/dcim/Camera/ folder?
Mar 03 02:53:08 <khert> they still don't show up unless i reboot the phone, but when i do i can see them even in my custom directory
Mar 03 02:53:28 <khert> is there a way to cause a refresh?
Mar 03 02:59:32 <morganx> khert: i've had similar issues when i 'adb push' pictures to the phone. they don't show up until i reboot.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 03 02:59:56 2009