**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 05 02:59:57 2009
Jun 05 03:10:27 <KNY> perhaps the dev should be able to set the refund period (and the user is warned about how long it is before they buy)
Jun 05 03:10:38 <KNY> (minimum of 2 hours or something)
Jun 05 03:11:12 <romainguy> svm_invictvs: send me an email about this feedback you got from publishers
Jun 05 03:11:21 <romainguy> I'll forward it to the right persons
Jun 05 03:15:15 <svm_invictvs> romainguy: pm?
Jun 05 03:15:29 <romainguy> my nickname @android.com
Jun 05 03:15:44 <svm_invictvs> okay
Jun 05 03:16:40 <KNY> hey romainguy, is there an official place for market requests/bugs? b.android.com isn't the proper channel, but I haven't heard of a "real" one
Jun 05 03:16:47 <romainguy> no idea
Jun 05 03:16:51 <romainguy> I know there's a group
Jun 05 03:18:18 <KNY> yeah but just as you wouldn't report bugs on android-developers, I feel that it's also not an appropriate channel for market bugs
Jun 05 03:19:56 <KNY> perhaps I should file a bug on b.android.com about the lack of a bug tracker? :)
Jun 05 03:43:37 <Laserbeak43> anyone use jfupdater to get cupcake 1.51?
Jun 05 03:50:32 <yamanaruto> hello
Jun 05 03:56:54 <tweek3867> KNY, thanks for the response earlier. I figured that was what it was, I just wasn't sure as I wasn't sure. I guess I just couldn't think of why you would need to, which I suppose is a stupid question in its own right.
Jun 05 03:57:55 <KNY> tweek3867, you can do cool stuff like tethering and such
Jun 05 03:59:23 <yamanaruto> i have developed an application in android. I need to make it into a service with userinterface.
Jun 05 03:59:31 <yamanaruto> how can i do it
Jun 05 04:03:03 <Laserbeak43> what's cupcake radio?
Jun 05 04:06:46 <lucius> can you please tell me how can i put dummy images to the emulator
Jun 05 04:07:01 <lucius> so that I can use that as my avator in my contact list?
Jun 05 04:08:36 <doc_savage> lucius: adb push /path/to/local /path/to/remote - check the adb docs
Jun 05 04:09:20 <lucius> but which directory i need to push to on the emulator so that I can use them as 'pictures' in adding avator in my contact list
Jun 05 04:09:54 <doc_savage> lucius: I'm pretty sure you just want to dump them to SD card, then when you select them in contacts, it'll take a copy for itself
Jun 05 04:10:25 <doc_savage> i.e. i put my pics in /sdcard/contactpics, then selected them from there
Jun 05 04:11:56 <lucius> ok
Jun 05 04:11:59 <lucius> thx
Jun 05 04:13:02 <tweek3867> KNY, yea? That's cool. Sorry, I just got into Android coding in general. I've never done anything on a mobile dev before, but I got a really nice internship for the summer doing it so I'm just trying to figure out more.
Jun 05 04:13:22 <KNY> nice
Jun 05 04:13:29 <KNY> Android development is a lot of fun
Jun 05 04:13:34 <tweek3867> Definitely.
Jun 05 04:13:55 <tweek3867> And I've never done much software dev in general- I study A.I. and robotics, so it's a new territory for me.
Jun 05 04:18:37 <lucius> another question i have is how can i query all the avator in all my contacts programmically?
Jun 05 04:19:40 <sammyF> tweek3867: sounds like you might have some fun with Android then : considering you have at least a lot of sensor input to work with, you should be able to apply at least some of your study field in practice :)
Jun 05 04:23:40 <KNY> lucius, it's a column on the Contacts.People object, I believe
Jun 05 05:38:16 <jasta_> hmm
Jun 05 07:16:17 <hunterp> I do adb -e install WiFinder.apk and it tells me that it cannot find a device (-e supposed to target running emulator)
Jun 05 07:48:07 <droid001> is it possible to load dynamicaly denerated dex in 1.5?
Jun 05 07:48:28 <romainguy_> no
Jun 05 07:51:07 <droid001> that means, the android felix implementation is (not yet) working?
Jun 05 07:53:15 <droid001> http://blog.luminis.nl/roller/luminis/entry/osgi_on_google_android_using
Jun 05 07:53:20 <uscheller> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/954726/android-alertdialog-with-dynamically-changing-text-on-every-request
Jun 05 08:00:13 <romainguy_> OSGi on a phone
Jun 05 08:00:14 <romainguy_> wtf
Jun 05 08:04:58 <droid001> ;) we actualy need to generate dex, class what ever and execute it
Jun 05 08:09:28 <Miradude> I'm facing a small design problem for the application i'm building. Could you help me on that.
Jun 05 08:09:32 <Miradude> Ill explain
Jun 05 08:10:24 <Miradude> There is a list of objects with some pictures imageviews and some data in textviews
Jun 05 08:10:46 <Miradude> The list has been retrieved from the internet and so are the images.
Jun 05 08:10:57 <Miradude> The list is about 250 elements long.
Jun 05 08:11:21 <Miradude> Ofcourse i want to load the images only when they are visible.
Jun 05 08:11:34 <Miradude> So how should i do that?
Jun 05 08:38:03 <aVirulence> hi all. I'm having a problem with onNotifyDataSetChanged(). It doesn't work. I have this ArrayList<String> called items. I get its value from a Service: items = service.getItems(); After that I call notifyDataSetChanged() on the ArrayAdapter. However, it will only change the values if the exact size of items was the same as before the assignment.. does anyone have a clue on what I'm doing wrong?
Jun 05 12:00:53 <srm> Hi. Just starting to develop for Android on OSX using the emulator. Are there general guidelines on how to port generic Java-code to the Android-SDK ?
Jun 05 12:03:26 <TD> there shouldn't need to be any porting
Jun 05 12:03:35 <TD> android provides a j2se implementation
Jun 05 12:03:47 <TD> not all the desktop javax apis are there but the core java classes should be
Jun 05 12:04:00 <TD> but it really depends on what the code does
Jun 05 12:05:41 <srm> Ok, so I could use my Http/Socket connection Code 1:1 without bothering. Only culprits are obviously GUI...I was just wondering if there are special replacements for java.net.* et al
Jun 05 12:06:52 <TD> no
Jun 05 12:07:11 <srm> thank you.
Jun 05 12:07:12 <TD> just be aware that as per usual for gui toolkits, you have to do networking code in a separate thread
Jun 05 12:07:26 <TD> check the AsyncTask API to see how to easily send progress reports, etc, back to the gui thread
Jun 05 12:07:29 <TD> it's kinda like SwingWorker AFAIK
Jun 05 12:07:39 <srm> arrr, ok, will go for it.
Jun 05 12:08:40 <TD> cool
Jun 05 12:54:15 <uscheller> How can I change an AlertDialogs items in onPrepareDialog? There doesnt seem to be any method for this and I cant find an id to use with findViewById
Jun 05 13:14:26 <darkscriptc> hey I'm just confused whether or not this is a good idea. So I'm assigned with 2 other java programmers to do a project, and we picked a data-intensive project on android, and it's due in a week. Do you guys think it's doable?
Jun 05 13:17:05 <blau-mikeDG>  lol
Jun 05 13:17:11 <blau-mikeDG> we need more info
Jun 05 13:17:12 <darkscriptc> haha really?
Jun 05 13:17:12 <Poke53281> darkscriptc: let me use my psychic powers... stand by
Jun 05 13:17:17 <darkscriptc> hahahahaha
Jun 05 13:17:21 <blau-mikeDG> is it for public  consumption
Jun 05 13:17:35 <darkscriptc> no c'mon guys, so we have no clue, and no it's not for public consumption, just for a class project
Jun 05 13:17:43 <Poke53281> darn, nothing... not working today
Jun 05 13:17:52 <blau-mikeDG> oh youll be fine then
Jun 05 13:18:26 <blau-mikeDG> paste the descriptoin somewhere
Jun 05 13:18:57 <blau-mikeDG> have you deved for android
Jun 05 13:19:36 <darkscriptc> well no, and it's a bit odd after taking a look at its frontend
Jun 05 13:20:07 <darkscriptc> I never liked swing, and I'm having a feeling it's like it...is that true?
Jun 05 13:20:36 <blau-mikeDG> ayouts are similar to swing
Jun 05 13:20:40 <blau-mikeDG> but you can do them in xml
Jun 05 13:20:42 <blau-mikeDG> so it changes
Jun 05 13:21:39 <darkscriptc> Oooh okay, that sounds sexy. is there anything regarding constraints that android forces us to do..like some stuff that they've taken out of the java api, some odd way of using something etc.
Jun 05 13:26:19 <blau-mikeDG> all the java.* stuff is in there I think
Jun 05 13:26:23 <blau-mikeDG> check developer.android.com
Jun 05 13:26:34 <blau-mikeDG> for guides and sampels
Jun 05 13:26:55 <th0br0> hey, how can I use the class loader to dynamically load dex classfiles?
Jun 05 13:27:16 <darkscriptc> do you guys think it's safe to develop the whole system first, then andoid it?
Jun 05 13:29:39 <TD> erm
Jun 05 13:29:43 <TD> darkscriptc: data intensive?
Jun 05 13:29:52 <TD> you realize android java gives you the equivalent of a 4mhz cpu right?
Jun 05 13:30:02 <TD> android is good for many things. crunching data is not one of them.
Jun 05 13:30:22 <darkscriptc> well...the professor told us it has to use a data structure..not data-intensive as I implied earlier though
Jun 05 13:30:23 <blau-mikeDG> whats data intensive about it
Jun 05 13:30:40 <darkscriptc> it's just that we might be hashing a lot of things and using composite data structures and so on
Jun 05 13:30:45 <TD> er
Jun 05 13:30:52 <TD> it has to use a data structure? any data structure?
Jun 05 13:31:00 <TD> this is java 101 or something, right? will your prof need to run it for himself?
Jun 05 13:31:12 <darkscriptc> no no, it's not java 101
Jun 05 13:31:20 <TD> i'd definitely stick to regular j2se for a class project unless you have been specifically asked to do something mobile
Jun 05 13:31:22 <darkscriptc> it's Intermediate/Advanced programming
Jun 05 13:31:33 <blau-mikeDG> yeah i concur with tD
Jun 05 13:31:45 <TD> android is cool, but it does complicate things beyond writing a desktop java program
Jun 05 13:31:54 <darkscriptc> hmm even with doing a shitty gui for android?
Jun 05 13:31:59 <TD> the sun tutorials are *significantly* better than androids, unfortunately
Jun 05 13:32:10 <TD> depends on your goal, right
Jun 05 13:32:34 <darkscriptc> sigh..
Jun 05 13:32:44 <blau-mikeDG> your professor is going to want to run it
Jun 05 13:32:47 <blau-mikeDG> and look at it id imagigne
Jun 05 13:32:55 <darkscriptc> android has its own java compiler, right?
Jun 05 13:33:09 <blau-mikeDG> nope uses normal javac i think right?
Jun 05 13:33:29 <darkscriptc> but it doesn't compile to normal java byte code, from what I've known about it so far
Jun 05 13:33:41 <TD> right
Jun 05 13:33:46 <TD> you can only run android apps in the emulator
Jun 05 13:34:01 <darkscriptc> so is the only complication in the gui?
Jun 05 13:34:14 <TD> so if your prof is expecting to receive a bunch of source code he can compile and run on his desktop, then he'd need to grab the android sdk to run your app
Jun 05 13:34:27 <darkscriptc> ye he is totally cool with it
Jun 05 13:34:30 <blau-mikeDG> i love to see people getting involved in android
Jun 05 13:34:37 <darkscriptc> he's actually a very VERY *MOBILE* person
Jun 05 13:34:49 <darkscriptc> he takes attendance using a bluetooth scanner hehe
Jun 05 13:34:54 <blau-mikeDG> cool
Jun 05 13:34:58 <TD> well, android isn't too hard or anything
Jun 05 13:35:10 <TD> but with only a week, i'd try and minimize the amount of extra complexity involved
Jun 05 13:35:18 * TD remembers university well, what a pain in the ass that was
Jun 05 13:35:29 <TD> hopefully yours is better than mine. but being "fancy" basically never got us extra marks
Jun 05 13:36:51 <darkscriptc> true, we'll think about it as a group
Jun 05 13:37:09 <darkscriptc> but if we decide on android, then I'm probably gonna be hanging around here more often
Jun 05 13:37:50 <TD> cool, well, good luck
Jun 05 13:38:37 <darkscriptc> btw, are there any commercial android companies around?
Jun 05 13:39:02 <TD> google ?
Jun 05 13:39:57 <darkscriptc> haha other than that company
Jun 05 13:41:51 <blau-mikeDG> htc?
Jun 05 13:41:59 <TD> lots of companies are working on android
Jun 05 13:42:11 <TD> most major cell phone manufacturers
Jun 05 13:42:25 <darkscriptc> for some reason, I've been getting no's from people about getting the phone
Jun 05 13:42:34 <TD> nos?
Jun 05 13:42:40 <darkscriptc> all of them think their iPhones kick samurai ass
Jun 05 13:42:50 <blau-mikeDG> iphone has terrible navigation
Jun 05 13:42:59 <blau-mikeDG> and one hard button
Jun 05 13:43:03 <darkscriptc> android is like...hope. to them at least
Jun 05 13:43:09 * TD shrugs
Jun 05 13:43:12 <TD> iphone is very well done
Jun 05 13:43:17 <TD> it's a pretty even fight imho
Jun 05 13:43:17 <darkscriptc> but iPhone, to them, is like "the device that actually made it"
Jun 05 13:43:46 <Gelb> i think for normal users the navigation is more easy. you don't have to press the menu-button for example. iphone is more limited, but good enough.
Jun 05 13:44:07 <TD> iphones nav model is significantly simpler than androids
Jun 05 13:44:09 <darkscriptc> but what about graphics
Jun 05 13:44:23 <Miradude> TD - I also like my iphones well done :-)
Jun 05 13:44:27 <blau-mikeDG> the iphone has 9 screens, it can take 2 button press and 8 swipes to run an app
Jun 05 13:44:32 <darkscriptc> I've been trying to show it off, but iPhones never failed to kick android's ass in terms of graphics
Jun 05 13:44:52 <blau-mikeDG> have fun switching between apps on 2 completely different sides of the phone
Jun 05 13:44:55 <TD> cupcake added more eyecandy
Jun 05 13:45:02 <TD> but yes iphone is still shiny
Jun 05 13:45:19 <blau-mikeDG> blackberry dominated for years
Jun 05 13:45:21 <blau-mikeDG> and wasnt shiny
Jun 05 13:45:32 <Gelb> i think the situation will get better with 2.0 and more interesting hardware, like the samsung-device.
Jun 05 13:45:43 <Gelb> blau-mikeDG: that was before the iphone.
Jun 05 13:45:55 <darkscriptc> blau-mikeDG: I'm talking about whether or not it's a viable platform for game development
Jun 05 13:45:56 <Miradude> yeah G1 was kind of a bad (ugly) start.
Jun 05 13:46:07 <Gelb> the iphone changed the expectations people has in modern smartphones.
Jun 05 13:46:36 <blau-mikeDG> the iphone isnt  aviable platform for game development
Jun 05 13:46:56 <darkscriptc> well I've seen some neat games for it
Jun 05 13:47:01 <Miradude> correct gelb. Nokia will also follow with the N97 as a modern smartphone.
Jun 05 13:47:09 <darkscriptc> they play smooth(er)
Jun 05 13:47:19 <vol> the smootherist
Jun 05 13:47:36 * darkscriptc thinks @vol is right
Jun 05 13:48:02 <vol> android hasn't had any good programs to show off for a few reasons
Jun 05 13:48:17 <vol> the big one being that dev companies don't quite get that it's not j2me, and that maybe they shouldn't port their j2me apps straight up
Jun 05 13:48:30 <vol> hey wow it has 3d acceleration, maybe your 3d flight sim shouldn't render with software mode?
Jun 05 13:48:30 <TD> darkscriptc: android has some big problems with running high-end games today
Jun 05 13:48:34 <TD> they are known and being worked on
Jun 05 13:48:47 <vol> there's also the issue of native development not being officially available yet
Jun 05 13:48:56 <blau-mikeDG> the worst is the big companies that trying porting windows mobile gps apps
Jun 05 13:49:14 <vol> yeah they're a bunch of je- hey wait
Jun 05 13:49:29 <vol> anyway, EA is making android games, though they're probably just retreads
Jun 05 13:49:41 <vol> "sims 3" will probably be some sort of godawful jrpg
Jun 05 13:50:39 * blau-mikeDG is putting his gmail user name and password temporarily into his app
Jun 05 13:50:44 * blau-mikeDG suspects he will forget about it
Jun 05 13:50:46 * vol steals
Jun 05 13:51:11 * darkscriptc becomes friends with vol
Jun 05 13:51:18 * darkscriptc steals
Jun 05 13:51:22 <vol> :<
Jun 05 13:51:37 * darkscriptc gives back vol's stuff, happy?
Jun 05 13:52:04 <blau-mikeDG> hrmmm
Jun 05 13:52:18 <blau-mikeDG> whats wrong with this ? 		context.startService(new Intent(context, BackupService.class));
Jun 05 13:52:26 <vol> you wrote it
Jun 05 13:52:28 <blau-mikeDG> keeps causing my app to wait/force close
Jun 05 13:52:39 <blau-mikeDG> like its in the same thread as my ui
Jun 05 13:52:51 <blau-mikeDG> the service part of it i mean
Jun 05 13:55:39 <vol> does your service's onStart return in a reasonable amount of time?
Jun 05 13:55:54 <vol> any chance that you're blocking in there?
Jun 05 13:56:12 <blau-mikeDG> on start isn't done in its own thread?
Jun 05 13:56:27 <TD> service methods all run in the same thread
Jun 05 13:56:31 <TD> read the service docs, it is explained there
Jun 05 13:56:36 <TD> s/same/main/
Jun 05 13:56:41 <blau-mikeDG> read them to me!
Jun 05 13:56:58 <vol> brush your teeth first
Jun 05 13:57:07 <vol> get in your jammies
Jun 05 13:57:19 <Laserdroid> lol?
Jun 05 13:57:23 <blau-mikeDG> eat my jammies!
Jun 05 13:57:23 <vol> fin
Jun 05 14:00:32 <blau-mikeDG> im gonna work on my ADC 3 apps instead
Jun 05 14:01:46 <blau-mikeDG> grrr im doing somehting so wrong and i cant figure it out
Jun 05 14:05:42 <tauno> turkey beef maybe?
Jun 05 14:11:19 <guillaume_c> yop all, someone have an exemple of listView with doesn't work with SimpleAdaptateur ? I use this but in fact i want remove object to my listView and redraw this, but my SimpleAdatateur doesn't have a remove method ..
Jun 05 14:12:38 <guillaume_c> in theory, if the data source of my adapteur change, my listview is automaticly redraw isn't it ? but if i can't remove objet from my data source ...
Jun 05 14:13:00 <guillaume_c> i don't understand how to use an different adaptateur than SimpleAdatateur
Jun 05 14:14:25 <guillaume_c> sorry, adapter is better (i am french :D)
Jun 05 14:16:39 <mmmulani> guillaume_c: you can make your own adapter?
Jun 05 14:18:02 <guillaume_c> yes, but i am a beginner and i prefere follow a tutoriel or loock an example code
Jun 05 14:19:34 <guillaume_c> moreover i don't use a listActivity ..
Jun 05 14:36:37 <uscheller> when I start google maps with a URI "geo:latitude,longitude?z=zoom", is it also possible to get a marker for this spot?
Jun 05 15:10:25 <magegu> hi guys, in my textbox in a tablelayout is overflowing to the right(and hence other elemets,too) is there a way to avoid that?
Jun 05 15:10:43 <zhobbs> stick a width on it
Jun 05 15:10:56 <zhobbs> or add weight to the other elements, etc
Jun 05 15:12:54 <blau-mikeDG> change width to fill _parent?
Jun 05 15:13:04 <blau-mikeDG> i havent really used tablelayout
Jun 05 15:13:07 <blau-mikeDG> so i dont know if that works
Jun 05 15:13:31 <wmealing_> blau-mikeDG, i remember seeing table layout do some strange things, and someone in here mentioned setting the "weight" of one of the objects
Jun 05 15:16:31 <blau-mikeDG> layouts are funky
Jun 05 15:17:20 <zhobbs> TableLayouts are just nested LinearLayouts
Jun 05 15:58:58 <magegu> are Dialogs ignored in onDestroy() ?
Jun 05 16:02:30 <zhobbs> anyone have any idea why it would be faster to read/write a list of "reversed hex" numbers vs standard hex numbers?
Jun 05 16:02:50 <Qwell> zhobbs: endianness?
Jun 05 16:06:04 <zhobbs> hmm
Jun 05 16:07:25 <magegu> neither in the onStop nor in the onDestroy i can use showDialog, even though its working in onCreate ... any Suggestion?
Jun 05 16:08:11 <zhobbs> you probably don't want to do that...
Jun 05 16:09:29 <magegu> hm, but i want :) when the user want to quit the activity i want to ask wether to save a file or not
Jun 05 16:10:08 <magegu> *whether ..
Jun 05 16:11:15 <zhobbs> what if it's stopped due to an incoming call?
Jun 05 16:11:33 <zhobbs> you expect that your save dialog is more important than the incoming call?
Jun 05 16:11:53 <magegu> i thought thats what the onPause method is for!?
Jun 05 16:12:48 <zhobbs> by the time those are called you're app is out of focus
Jun 05 16:13:51 <magegu> ok...in other words: there is no way to fire the showDialog?
Jun 05 16:18:35 <zhobbs> the "android way" is to just save it in onPause and show a toast
Jun 05 16:29:41 <kRutOn> magegu: You could prompt in a normal way when the user hits an 'exit' button, but if they navigate away you shouldn't try to pull them back.
Jun 05 16:30:30 <unknown_lamer> magegu: you should just save the file automatically to a backup
Jun 05 16:30:38 <unknown_lamer> magegu: ala the way emacs does #file#
Jun 05 16:30:58 <unknown_lamer> magegu: the phone is not a desktop and should be more or less transparantly persistent
Jun 05 16:31:09 <magegu> but also limited space
Jun 05 16:31:25 <magegu> and it might be a big file ... hmm
Jun 05 16:32:16 <unknown_lamer> if you are editing files that could cause space issues on devices that come with at least 1G of storage ... you might want to structure your app around using a transaction log during editing with a merge during save
Jun 05 16:33:01 <magegu> hm okey
Jun 05 16:33:13 <magegu> thanks for the suggestion .. lets see what i can do!
Jun 05 18:11:50 <kRutOn> Hm, so I'm testing out translations on my app. Users that have phones using their native locale can see the translations, but I can only see the correct language in activities. Services that access the resources are still in English on my emulator.
Jun 05 18:14:44 <vol> kRutOn: but your users can see the services resources in their languages?
Jun 05 18:16:03 <kRutOn> Nevermind, I think I see the problem here. I externed the string fetch to the resources in a different branch.
Jun 05 18:19:52 <blau-mikeDG> kruton: have you considered how to handle the market?
Jun 05 18:20:03 <blau-mikeDG> since you only get 325 chars to describe it
Jun 05 18:20:28 <kRutOn> blau-mikeDG: I'm writing all my descriptions in Chinese because I pack more meaning into the same number of characters
Jun 05 18:20:42 <kRutOn> blau-mikeDG: Actually, the Market allows you to have a different description for each locale
Jun 05 18:20:55 <blau-mikeDG> kruton: really?
Jun 05 18:20:56 <blau-mikeDG> how?
Jun 05 18:21:12 <blau-mikeDG> ive been bitching about that for a while and noone mentioned it
Jun 05 18:21:15 <kRutOn> There's a button near the description area that says 'Add locale' and you click on it.
Jun 05 18:21:40 <kRutOn> I'm not sure how new it is. I noticed it when I uploaded the latest version of ConnectBot on Monday.
Jun 05 18:21:48 <blau-mikeDG> ahhh
Jun 05 18:21:49 <blau-mikeDG> never noticed it
Jun 05 18:21:50 <kRutOn> I haven't logged in for a couple months.
Jun 05 18:21:51 <blau-mikeDG> cool
Jun 05 18:22:17 <kRutOn> One thing Market doesn't handle is packages with localizations for certain regions. You have to pack them all in one apk
Jun 05 18:22:36 <kRutOn> So my Market version only has English. If I add in all the locales, it goes from 370k to 500k
Jun 05 18:22:51 <kRutOn> sorry, 540k
Jun 05 18:23:31 <vol> in all fairness, a user can switch locales on his device at will
Jun 05 18:24:28 <kRutOn> yeah, that's awesome
Jun 05 18:24:42 <kRutOn> wait, are you arguing that I should put the 540k apk up for that reason
Jun 05 18:24:44 <zhobbs> the market needs to support apk configurations
Jun 05 18:24:59 <zhobbs> the latest SDK does, the market needs to follow up
Jun 05 18:25:24 <vol> does it?
Jun 05 18:25:50 <vol> the biggest problem there is having 10 different versions of your apk running around
Jun 05 18:26:01 <zhobbs> yeah, in the latest SDK you can build multiple APK's for specific region/screen size/keyboard type/etc
Jun 05 18:27:02 <zhobbs> yeah, but it makes sense....you might have some large drawable assets for a netbook that you don't want to include in the QVGA apk
Jun 05 18:27:41 <blau-mikeDG> every app should have 1920x1080 graphics
Jun 05 18:27:47 <blau-mikeDG> and just scale down as need be
Jun 05 18:27:55 <zhobbs> I like it
Jun 05 18:28:38 * kRutOn says in his best Jean Luc Picard voice, "Make it so."
Jun 05 18:29:45 <KNY> blau-mikeDG, that's what SVG is fore
Jun 05 18:29:46 <KNY> for*
Jun 05 18:30:17 <romainguy> SVG is not a magic bullet
Jun 05 18:30:22 <romainguy> especially when you render at small sizes
Jun 05 18:30:29 <KNY> romainguy, or when you have complex data
Jun 05 18:30:37 <blau-mikeDG> we can use svg with android?
Jun 05 18:30:37 <romainguy> yep
Jun 05 18:30:41 <romainguy> no
Jun 05 18:30:45 <almondmendoza> anyone knows how to get the primary email of the owner? is it possible?
Jun 05 18:30:56 <almondmendoza> i can get the name but not the email
Jun 05 18:30:58 <KNY> almondmendoza, you can do it with reflection/private APIs
Jun 05 18:30:59 <blau-mikeDG> ask them for it
Jun 05 18:31:03 <KNY> but I really don't recommend it
Jun 05 18:31:56 <almondmendoza> so if i want a login mechanism, i should ask them for the email instead?
Jun 05 18:32:00 <KNY> yes
Jun 05 18:32:09 <almondmendoza> k tnx
Jun 05 18:32:32 <blau-mikeDG> lets go get lunch
Jun 05 18:33:17 <KNY> blau-mikeDG, i just ate some leftover apple pie for lunch
Jun 05 18:33:19 <KNY> delicious
Jun 05 18:34:03 <romainguy_> KNY: almondmendoza, you can do it with reflection/private APIs << and don't complain when it breaks with Donut or Eclair or Fxxxxxx
Jun 05 18:34:50 <kRutOn> Fudge
Jun 05 18:35:07 <KNY> Fritter
Jun 05 18:36:04 <romainguy_> no
Jun 05 18:36:08 <almondmendoza> i wont use it then so that i wont have to complain :)
Jun 05 18:36:14 <romainguy_> the only possible word is obviously Fromage
Jun 05 18:36:28 <ctate> HONH HONH HONH
Jun 05 18:36:36 <KNY> hahahah
Jun 05 18:36:36 <ctate> sorry that just slipped out
Jun 05 18:36:58 <ctate> romainguy: i've been suggesting frangipane but not quite seriously :)
Jun 05 18:37:08 <romainguy_> ctate: one day I will understand why the heck you guys think we say that :)
Jun 05 18:37:11 <KNY> romainguy_, you should have forced them to use crepe for C
Jun 05 18:37:34 <ctate> romainguy_: blame television?  stupid parody frenchman portrayals, i'm sure.
Jun 05 18:37:53 <romainguy_> you mean like the Pink Panther?
Jun 05 18:37:57 <ctate> we're not likely to use 'Gougiere' for G either, i'm afraid.
Jun 05 18:38:05 <ctate> romainguy_: that's a good start, yeah
Jun 05 18:38:07 <romainguy_> the worst French impression ever
Jun 05 18:38:11 <KNY> oh man, romainguy_ missed our discussion earlier about what every french person obviously looks like (black hair, curly handlebar mustache, striped shirt, beret, etc)
Jun 05 18:38:29 <ctate> snrk
Jun 05 18:39:16 <almondmendoza> sry but is there an A and B?
Jun 05 18:39:32 <romainguy> there were
Jun 05 18:39:34 <ctate> not quite.  there were 1.0 and 1.1 but 1.0 was just 'Android' and 1.1 had a non-B name internally.
Jun 05 18:39:43 <romainguy> ctate: A and B existed
Jun 05 18:39:48 <ctate> really?
Jun 05 18:39:48 <romainguy> but it was before your time I think
Jun 05 18:39:50 <romainguy> yes
Jun 05 18:39:53 <ctate> wow
Jun 05 18:39:56 <romainguy> Astro and Bender
Jun 05 18:40:02 <ctate> LAME
Jun 05 18:40:16 <ctate> if 1.1 wasn't B then it doesn't count
Jun 05 18:40:18 <vol> yeah really
Jun 05 18:40:28 <romainguy> 1.1 was Petit-Four
Jun 05 18:40:28 <KNY> Bender as in Bender Bending Rodriguez?
Jun 05 18:40:38 <ctate> (but does it bend?)
Jun 05 18:40:40 <romainguy> KNY: as in Bender the robot in Futurama :)
Jun 05 18:40:47 <KNY> romainguy, yeah, that's his full name
Jun 05 18:40:52 <KNY> shame on you for not knowing that
Jun 05 18:40:54 <almondmendoza> so Astro is Astro boy
Jun 05 18:40:59 <romainguy> KNY: sorry I'm not a total nerd :p
Jun 05 18:41:07 <ctate> Astro is the dog from The Jetsons, obviously.
Jun 05 18:41:09 <kRutOn> wait, how do Bender and Cupcake connect.
Jun 05 18:41:18 <balachmar> Does anybody know how to use the barcode scanning intent? As it is rather pointless to add all the code to my own program. I have seen stuff like that on the android blog videos. So my app should be able to use the scanning intent and then use the outcome of the scan intent to do something else. right?
Jun 05 18:41:19 <romainguy> they don't, we changed the naming scheme
Jun 05 18:41:20 <kRutOn> because he's a chef?
Jun 05 18:41:22 <kRutOn> ah
Jun 05 18:41:26 <ctate> crouton: just ignore 'astro' and 'bender' they're prehistoric and have been superseded
Jun 05 18:41:31 <romainguy> we started with robots and now it's treats/desserts/whatever
Jun 05 18:41:39 <romainguy> and what ctate said
Jun 05 18:41:41 <ctate> gougiere!
Jun 05 18:41:44 <romainguy> they're way pre-1.0
Jun 05 18:41:44 <KNY> romainguy, if I knew his serial number (they mention it in the episode where they first meet flexo) then I'd be a total nerd
Jun 05 18:41:49 <romainguy> those were the names used before M3
Jun 05 18:41:55 <vol> balachmar: how?
Jun 05 18:41:55 <KNY> I know it's the sum of two cubes, but not the actual number :(
Jun 05 18:42:03 <vol> does the activity actually return anything?
Jun 05 18:42:04 <romainguy> KNY: that said I will admit I have all Futurama episdoes on DVD :p
Jun 05 18:42:15 <KNY> I love futurama
Jun 05 18:42:23 <balachmar> vol: Intents can be shared right?
Jun 05 18:42:24 <romainguy> yeah
Jun 05 18:42:24 * ctate has never seen it SO THERE
Jun 05 18:42:30 <vol> balachmar: uh, sure
Jun 05 18:42:30 <KNY> ctate, instant ban
Jun 05 18:42:33 <romainguy> the movies are not that fun though
Jun 05 18:42:35 <vol> ctate: wtfs
Jun 05 18:42:41 <ctate> kill your television.
Jun 05 18:42:48 <KNY> romainguy, nah, but they could have been worse
Jun 05 18:42:54 <vol> ctate: futurama is acceptable entertainment
Jun 05 18:43:02 <vol> watch it on your computer machine
Jun 05 18:43:09 <balachmar> vol: Well I remember seeing something about lending the barcode scanning functionality in another app
Jun 05 18:43:19 <romainguy> vol: we have even better entertainment
Jun 05 18:43:22 <romainguy> it's Android TV
Jun 05 18:43:25 <vol> it has the most phds per person on its writing staff, and the whole thing is filled with math jokes
Jun 05 18:43:28 <romainguy> we watch the @!$ build go on for hours
Jun 05 18:43:31 <ctate> vol: heh
Jun 05 18:43:39 <vol> seriously though
Jun 05 18:43:40 <KNY> romainguy, better than watching the shitstorm in here, I suppose
Jun 05 18:43:43 * romainguy is watching the build right now
Jun 05 18:43:43 <balachmar> And thanks to romainguy and shelves I know how: http://code.google.com/p/shelves/source/browse/trunk/Shelves/src/org/curiouscreature/android/shelves/scan/ScanIntent.java
Jun 05 18:44:04 <vol> things like professor farnsworth getting mad at who won a particle race and saying "No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!"
Jun 05 18:44:13 <almondmendoza> you can always search on google code search http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=barcode+android&sbtn=Search
Jun 05 18:44:13 <KNY> vol, that's like my favorite quote ever
Jun 05 18:44:26 <KNY> (from futurama)
Jun 05 18:45:58 <balachmar> almondmendoza: Well I actually meant reusing the zxing stuff not implementing my own
Jun 05 18:49:22 <BeBoo_> KNY: here?
Jun 05 18:49:30 <KNY> what's up, BeBoo_ ?
Jun 05 18:55:11 <BeBoo_> may i PM you?
Jun 05 18:59:14 <blau-mikeDG> grrr im having spannable issue snow :(
Jun 05 19:02:13 <BeBoo_> snow? where!?
Jun 05 19:09:16 <rgl> hi
Jun 05 19:09:49 <rgl> is there a way to create a bluetooth socket/connection?
Jun 05 19:10:03 <andrewoid> rgl, no
Jun 05 19:10:46 <rgl> how do we connect to outside world?  just using sms or wifi?
Jun 05 19:11:01 <andrewoid> sms, wifi, 3g...
Jun 05 19:11:18 <Qwell> you could call too
Jun 05 19:11:38 <rgl> you can do call with code?
Jun 05 19:11:59 <rgl> voice call, you mean, right?
Jun 05 19:12:33 <Qwell> There are some apps that have calling features, no?
Jun 05 19:12:55 <rgl> dunno.  I never tried android  :/
Jun 05 19:24:26 <BeBoo_> KNY: may i PM you?
Jun 05 19:24:39 <KNY> sure
Jun 05 19:49:42 <bdodson> Hey, ctate, is this chat logged somewhere in a searchable way?
Jun 05 19:49:56 <ctate> channel policy: no logging.
Jun 05 19:50:07 <rejser> :S what happens in #android-dev stays in #android-dev
Jun 05 19:50:13 <bdodson> hah that's too bad
Jun 05 19:50:16 <ctate> it should tell you that when you join #android too
Jun 05 19:50:22 <bdodson> yeah I saw it on #android
Jun 05 19:50:25 <bdodson> but not here
Jun 05 19:50:33 <ctate> same deal here but i don't know how to make it say that on join
Jun 05 19:50:59 <bdodson> well that's too bad. Some good info comes through here.
Jun 05 19:51:48 <bdodson> and the android documentation can be a bit hard to search through, if you don't necessarily know what you're looking for..
Jun 05 19:59:14 <bdodson> do you happen to know how android handles open sockets? Is it interrupt-driven?
Jun 05 19:59:56 <ctate> sockets over the air?  i would assume so.
Jun 05 20:00:44 <miracle2k> How is it possible that an activity with launchMode="singleTask" is launched *on top* of another an existing background Activity (one with no special launch flags) of my app?
Jun 05 20:00:53 <miracle2k> Isn't that exactly what shouldn't happen?
Jun 05 20:02:45 <ctate> you're confusing singleTask with singleInstance
Jun 05 20:02:48 <ctate> i suspect
Jun 05 20:03:25 <ctate> oh wait, no, that isn't it
Jun 05 20:03:33 <ctate> singleTask does not prevent having multiple running instances
Jun 05 20:03:46 <ctate> it just ensures that a new instance of the activity is placed at the root of a new task
Jun 05 20:08:02 <miracle2k> @ctate: Yes, though that doesn't seem to be what's happening. When launching the singleTask activity, my other Activity is brought to the front, and the singleTask one added on top of it. I understand that as being added to the existing task.
Jun 05 20:08:57 <miracle2k> Setting a different taskAffinity works, but frankly, the task/activity concept never seems to work the way I expect it to.
Jun 05 20:09:18 <ctate> you might be brought to the front *and* a new task created for the activity
Jun 05 20:09:31 <ctate> singleTask is almost never what you actually want; it's strange.
Jun 05 20:09:46 <ctate> and yes, tasks are odd.
Jun 05 20:19:47 <rgl> I'm trying the emulator for the first time, but for some reason, it does not seem to work.  the emulator just displays the "A N D R O I D _" thingy and never displays the home screen.  known how to make it work?
Jun 05 20:20:06 <ctate> it takes a long time to boot the first time you run it, especially on slower hardware
Jun 05 20:20:23 <ctate> the emulator is extremely cpu intensive
Jun 05 20:20:38 <ctate> and the first time it's run, the OS has to run dexopt on every apk on the whole system
Jun 05 20:21:45 <rgl> humm, indeed.  how odd. BTW, I'm not seeing cpu spikes.  it sits idle most of the time.  but its now up and running.  thx!
Jun 05 20:26:42 <rgl> is the emulator slow on purpose?
Jun 05 20:26:49 <ctate> also pretty I/O heavy as it reads the apks and writes dexopt
Jun 05 20:26:52 <ctate> not no purpose, no
Jun 05 20:26:57 <ctate> but it's doing something very cpu intensive
Jun 05 20:27:07 <ctate> it is emulating an ARM cpu and some hardware
Jun 05 20:27:21 <_Auron_> I've noticed some apps lag when a lot of input is thrown in (i.e. trackball being spun around a lot), even if the input isn't used.
Jun 05 20:27:22 <ctate> the *actual phone binary* is running the Android OS, on the emulated CPU
Jun 05 20:27:48 <ctate> literally the same system image that you could flash on a phone and run there
Jun 05 20:27:51 <_Auron_> does it have anything to do with the app's handling of input, or is it android?
Jun 05 20:28:07 <ctate> it's the app, _Auron_
Jun 05 20:28:20 <_Auron_> hmm
Jun 05 20:28:25 <ctate> finger-moved actions in particular can create a huge stream of input events to the app
Jun 05 20:28:37 <ctate> which if it tries to handle them all one by one winds up being sluggish
Jun 05 20:29:06 <ctate> this is an area where we want to make some OS improvements in the future, but there's also a lot of room for the app to be clever (or not) about input handling
Jun 05 20:29:10 <_Auron_> any suggestion on how to handle input efficiently?
Jun 05 20:29:50 <rgl> humm indeed, now the cpu is at 50% all the time.  When I tried qemu (ok, emulating x86 not arm) the thing went smootly.  ok, so its normal :D
Jun 05 20:30:04 <bmk789> is it possible to make adb connect to a specific device its not autodetecting?  like /dev/ttyandroid
Jun 05 20:30:49 <rgl> when we press the "back arrow" is the application closed?
Jun 05 20:31:08 <_Auron_> only if you code it to do that
Jun 05 20:31:22 <_Auron_> which most apps do
Jun 05 20:31:27 <ctate> rgl: yes
Jun 05 20:31:28 <doc_savage> bmk789: have you setup the udev rules?
Jun 05 20:31:35 <ctate> _Auron_: not true
Jun 05 20:31:50 <ctate> when you hit 'back' the activity is finished and removed from history
Jun 05 20:31:52 <_Auron_> my app doesn't do anything when the back button is pressed :P
Jun 05 20:31:56 <rgl> I'm a newbie on android.  just wondering what the defaults app do.  if they are closed, or if they are sent to background or something
Jun 05 20:32:07 <bmk789> doc_savage, for my g1 i have, im trying to connect to android running in virtualbox
Jun 05 20:32:13 <ctate> _Auron_: are you intercepting the key?
Jun 05 20:32:23 <doc_savage> bmk789: ah ok... no idea then, sorry
Jun 05 20:32:31 <_Auron_> ctate: nope
Jun 05 20:32:33 <_Auron_> not yet anyhow
Jun 05 20:32:38 <TD_> rgl: read up on the android task model
Jun 05 20:32:51 <TD_> rgl: the app is "closed" visually but may or may not stop running
Jun 05 20:33:07 <doc_savage> rgl: have a read of this: http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#actlife
Jun 05 20:34:35 <TD_> the pre has a really nice way of visualizing multi-tasking
Jun 05 20:34:40 <ctate> _Auron_: and yet you're seeing *nothing* happen when the user hits Back while your activity is running?
Jun 05 20:34:54 <TD_> i hope the android ui folks sit down and figure out better visualiations of the android app model soon
Jun 05 20:35:01 <ctate> TD: the *activity* is shut down
Jun 05 20:35:09 <TD_> it's kinda hard to figure out what is going to happen when the back key is pressed currently
Jun 05 20:35:11 <ctate> the process may be cached for a short period of time
Jun 05 20:35:21 <TD_> right, s/app/process/ in my response
Jun 05 20:35:32 <ctate> when you hit back, the foreground activity is stopped and removed from history.
Jun 05 20:35:46 <ctate> the process doesn't matter; quit worrying about processes.
Jun 05 20:36:02 <_Auron_> ctate: on my G1, while my program is running, I can hit the Back key a million times and it does nothing
Jun 05 20:36:12 <ctate> _Auron_: your app is doing something funky then
Jun 05 20:36:13 <TD_> i don't worry about them, was just trying to answer rgls question
Jun 05 20:36:30 <_Auron_> however it does exit (just tested this) if I take out my onKeyDown handling
Jun 05 20:36:33 <KNY> _Auron_, are you trapping it in onKeyDown or something?
Jun 05 20:36:39 <KNY> well there's your answer :)
Jun 05 20:36:41 <ctate> ha ha see?  you *are* intercepting the key :)
Jun 05 20:37:05 <_Auron_> I thought you mean if I was specifically checking for that particular key
Jun 05 20:37:07 <KNY> _Auron_, only return true from onkeydown if you actually want to process the key
Jun 05 20:37:10 <ctate> unlike call/home/end, apps can intercept the back key
Jun 05 20:37:25 <KNY> ctate, apps can't intercept call and end?
Jun 05 20:37:30 <ctate> no
Jun 05 20:37:33 <_Auron_> KNY: ?
Jun 05 20:37:42 <KNY> oh weird. I thought that home was the only one
Jun 05 20:37:42 <_Auron_> I have return false at the end, and return true for the keys I'm using
Jun 05 20:37:44 <ctate> otherwise you could prevent the user from picking up a call, or from ending it
Jun 05 20:38:08 <KNY> ctate, but wouldn't the Phone app have focus and be the only one that could intercept those keys?
Jun 05 20:38:16 <_Auron_> atm I'm only using the 'dpad' keys
Jun 05 20:38:25 <ctate> you can switch to other apps while in call, KNY
Jun 05 20:38:31 <KNY> ctate, ahh, good point
Jun 05 20:39:03 <_Auron_> KNY: so how am I handling onKeyDown wrong?
Jun 05 20:39:15 <KNY> _Auron_, I have no idea; i was just guessing
Jun 05 20:39:28 <KNY> _Auron_, until you make a pastebin, I can't answer that
Jun 05 20:39:54 <ctate> _Auron_: instead of return false; try using return super.onKeyDown(keyCode, event)
Jun 05 20:40:13 * ctate | The default implementation handles KEYCODE_BACK to stop the activity and go back, and other default key handling if configured with setDefaultKeyMode(int).
Jun 05 20:40:15 <ctate> says the doc
Jun 05 20:40:30 <ctate> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html#onKeyDown(int,%20android.view.KeyEvent)
Jun 05 20:40:43 <KNY> oh, sorry, yeah, that's what I meant :)
Jun 05 20:40:47 <KNY> it's been a long day
Jun 05 20:40:54 <ctate> it's only 1:40pm !
Jun 05 20:40:59 <KNY> 4:40 here
Jun 05 20:41:06 <ctate> there's your problem; you're in the wrong timezone
Jun 05 20:41:07 <KNY> :)
Jun 05 20:41:14 <_Auron_> KNY: that does seem like a good idea actually
Jun 05 20:41:18 * KNY starts moving west
Jun 05 20:42:53 <_Auron_> unfortunately it seems my app has a memory leak from pausing and resuming
Jun 05 20:42:56 <_Auron_> or something funky
Jun 05 20:43:07 <rgl> TD_, doc_savage: thx.  I'm reading it.
Jun 05 20:43:22 <TD_> it's complicated as hell but The Right Thing(tm)
Jun 05 20:43:47 <_Auron_> but that seems to have fixed the issue I had with it not drawing to the screen (I'm doing OpenGL|ES by the way) after going back into the app
Jun 05 20:44:03 <doc_savage> lol agreed! I've been playing with android for about a month and I'm still reading it :D
Jun 05 20:44:07 <_Auron_> however textures are getting swapped around wrong when going back in, and it eventually freezes and gets force-closed
Jun 05 20:44:48 <TD_> at least there's an ui guide for it now
Jun 05 20:45:00 <TD_> it doesn't give as much guidance as i'd hoped for but it's better than nuttin
Jun 05 20:45:27 <unknown_lamer> KNY: the window manager intercepts the keys before anything can get to them
Jun 05 20:45:34 <KNY> unknown_lamer, ah
Jun 05 20:45:47 <doc_savage> yeah - when I read it, it all makes sense, the save state stuff seems really clever and thought out, then I come to try to code it and my head spins
Jun 05 20:45:52 <unknown_lamer> I learned this when going down the wrong debugging rabit hole yesterday
Jun 05 20:46:20 <TD_> i had the same experience
Jun 05 20:46:32 <TD_> at first i was like "heck that's complicated"
Jun 05 20:46:36 <TD_> then i was "heck that's clever
Jun 05 20:46:44 <TD_> now i'm like "heck it's both complicated and clever"
Jun 05 20:46:48 <ctate> ha ha ha
Jun 05 20:46:59 <unknown_lamer> now for someone to implement an automagic persistent library on top of it
Jun 05 20:47:05 <TD_> it's actually a surprisingly low level api. i think android coding will become a lot easier after somebody creates a good abstraction over it
Jun 05 20:47:08 <unknown_lamer> persistence rather, blech typos
Jun 05 20:47:13 <TD_> yeah. i keep waiting ..... :)
Jun 05 20:47:13 <ctate> unknown_lamer: more to the point, the window manager is the primary input event dispatcher
Jun 05 20:47:47 <_Auron_> is there anything wrong with this?: http://pastebin.com/d7adc1a94
Jun 05 20:48:19 <unknown_lamer> orthogonal persistence is incredibly difficult
Jun 05 20:48:25 <unknown_lamer> mostly because of schema evolution
Jun 05 20:49:21 <TD_> yes. but it's also a well studied problem.
Jun 05 20:49:26 <TD_> java serialization helps
Jun 05 20:49:37 <loljdawson> hi
Jun 05 20:49:53 <loljdawson> can anyone recommend any opengl tutorials?
Jun 05 20:50:16 <_Auron_> nehe.gamedev.net is great
Jun 05 20:50:20 <TD_> given that android implements real serialization anyway, i'm not sure why they didn't just extend that api rather than invent a whole new serialization mechanism
Jun 05 20:50:34 <ctate> java serialization is ... suboptimal.
Jun 05 20:50:45 <ctate> Parcel is not a generic serialization mechanism; it's just *fast*
Jun 05 20:50:46 <TD_> yes, the storage format is horrible
Jun 05 20:51:09 <loljdawson> nice, thanks for the link auron
Jun 05 20:51:15 <_Auron_> you're welcome.
Jun 05 20:51:27 <TD_> loljdawson: nehe is great. it taught me opengl 10 years ago :)
Jun 05 20:51:28 <TD_> ot
Jun 05 20:51:39 <TD_> it's taught entire generations of opengl programmers
Jun 05 20:51:42 <unknown_lamer> TD_: the schema evolution part is still an unresolved issue
Jun 05 20:51:46 <_Auron_> I'm still trying to figure out why my app isn't restoring itself correctly, and there's very very little documentation on OpenGL|ES with android
Jun 05 20:52:07 <loljdawson> are you saving with a bundle?
Jun 05 20:52:17 <TD_> unknown_lamer: right, but a simple solution often gets you 99% of the way. protocol buffers are the simplest form of evolution you can get, and they still work pretty well at google
Jun 05 20:52:40 <unknown_lamer> TD_: mostly -- how do you automatically upgrade classes from an arbitrary version to another arbitrary version?
Jun 05 20:53:47 <unknown_lamer> Elephant in the CL world is dealing with it right now ... if I knew a bit more of the guts of ABCL and dalvik I would take a stab at getting ABCL working on android and using Elephant+sqlite backend
Jun 05 20:53:49 <TD_> that's the extreme form of the problem, though. in most apps you don't have to actually tackle something that hard. simply adding the new fields and specifying default values if they're missing would get you most of the way there
Jun 05 20:54:12 <rgl> sweet the android emulator  has an terminal window.  is there a way to su?
Jun 05 20:54:13 <bmk789> how do i set width of an editText?  i set width to 0.4 and its tiny, 0.5 and it fills the screen.  what am i missing?
Jun 05 20:54:14 <TD_> that's the only thing i've done to evolve schemas in my app so far (admittedly, it's a simple app)
Jun 05 20:54:17 <unknown_lamer> TD_: then throw in removing and renaming ...
Jun 05 20:54:39 <_Auron_> I'm doing super.onPause(); and mGLView.onPause();
Jun 05 20:54:43 <TD_> so you write custom code for that. or you don't do it. i'd still rather have some language/framework support for the simple case.
Jun 05 20:54:56 <_Auron_> which I took from google's examples
Jun 05 20:55:06 <unknown_lamer> TD_: and splitting classes up and whatnot (mm, arbitrary transforms). Of course it /might/ be an intractable problem without restricting what you are allowed to do to persistent classes
Jun 05 20:55:39 <TD_> i suspect (but cannot prove) that it is intractable, unless you specify the transformations with so much detail you write the upgrade code anyway
Jun 05 20:55:44 <unknown_lamer> TD_: aye. right now elephant can do trivial straight line schema evolution (removed slots are disassociated, added slots get the new :initform value, you are on your own for the rest)
Jun 05 20:55:53 <TD_> *nod*
Jun 05 20:56:18 <unknown_lamer> at least there is a protocol you can specialize to customize hairier updates
Jun 05 20:56:39 <loljdawson> these nehe tutorials look good but still not android specific
Jun 05 20:57:06 <unknown_lamer> I'm thinking the only workable solutions for now are either to have explicit schema versions with some transformation language, or to use something like contextl layers (one layer per db version)
Jun 05 20:57:43 <unknown_lamer> of course since there is only one language that can do context oriented programming right now the latter solution doesn't help anyone...
Jun 05 20:57:52 <TD_> i think there are some ORMs out there that have good solutions to these problems
Jun 05 20:58:02 <TD_> the trick is to find one that's light enough to use on a phone
Jun 05 20:58:38 <unknown_lamer> of course you could always pretend the problem didn't exist and go for a purely prototype object system for persistent things (mmm, Newton)
Jun 05 20:59:21 <unknown_lamer> damn difficult problems being interesting and painful. I'll figure it out eventually.
Jun 05 21:00:22 <_Auron_> loljdawson: I don't think there are any android specific openGL|ES tutorials worth nothing, most of them are just bits of this and that
Jun 05 21:00:27 <_Auron_> worth noting*
Jun 05 21:00:45 <TD_> it's sort of funny how many persistence schemes android has. there's parcels, but you can't actually save them to long term storage. there's java serialization. there's sqlite. there's sharedpreferences. there's raw files.
Jun 05 21:00:59 <unknown_lamer> TD_: flexibility!
Jun 05 21:00:59 <TD_> content providers
Jun 05 21:01:25 <unknown_lamer> content providers are quite nice in that they pretend the problem doesn't exist in a clean way at least
Jun 05 21:01:31 <TD_> heh
Jun 05 21:01:36 <unknown_lamer> "here, you deal with it and everyone using your data can pretend the world is a nice place"
Jun 05 21:01:43 <loljdawson> auron, shame really as I've done C opengl work and moving to android is proving tough with so little tutorials out
Jun 05 21:01:57 <_Auron_> loljdawson: aside from a few differences it's almost identical
Jun 05 21:02:24 <unknown_lamer> I'll probably hack together an elephantesque persistence database if I ever get guile-vm running on android to the point where it is useful
Jun 05 21:02:59 <loljdawson> auron, fair enough. Guess I'll just have to work through the google example
Jun 05 21:02:59 <unknown_lamer> which would require me to suffer through the agony of becoming intimate with how android uses Binder and do horrible unsupported things
Jun 05 21:04:40 <_Auron_> loljdawson: yeah, main thing is that instead of doing glBegin(); to draw triangles, you have to store them in a buffer, and draw using glDrawElements();
Jun 05 21:05:36 <loljdawson> auron, good stuff. cheers for the heads up
Jun 05 21:05:48 <_Auron_> np. it'll make sense when you look over the examples
Jun 05 21:06:01 <TD> binder is just os-level rpc done right
Jun 05 21:06:03 <_Auron_> I'm just having problems with resuming my app, the textures getting swapped around and eventually the whole thing just crashes
Jun 05 21:06:20 <ctate> TD: with a couple of very cute wrinkles like thread identity on callback
Jun 05 21:06:35 <TD> yes exactly. everything dcom should have done properly, but didn't
Jun 05 21:06:37 <_Auron_> which from looking at examples, I cannot figure out at all why it's not working.
Jun 05 21:07:05 <_Auron_> and ugh, I have work in an hour
Jun 05 21:07:29 <TD> ability to pass other binders through connections. secure permission propagation. no horrible re-entrancy rules. low context switch overhead. language independent.
Jun 05 21:07:39 <TD> can pass file descriptors too
Jun 05 21:07:43 <TD> simple idl
Jun 05 21:07:53 * TD spent half a year reimplementing DCOM once - that was pain
Jun 05 21:19:01 <TD> unknown_lamer: you might want to check out https://www.db4o.com/Android/default.aspx
Jun 05 21:19:10 <TD> they seem to have good answers to most of these questions
Jun 05 21:22:44 <bmk789> whats wrong with this line? <EditText android:id="@id/voltage"
Jun 05 21:25:31 <doc_savage> @+id/voltage ?
Jun 05 21:25:57 <bmk789> got it :)
Jun 05 21:27:10 <doc_savage> lol oh yeah :)
Jun 05 21:34:25 <KNY> didn't there used to be a specification for anti-face-touching on your activity or view or something?
Jun 05 21:35:17 <doc_savage> KNY: I read about that somewhere... I think it's done in XML but I could be wrong
Jun 05 21:35:37 <KNY> doc_savage, same, but I thought I saw it disappear with 1.5 (though I could be wrong)
Jun 05 21:35:53 <doc_savage> KNY: ah, I'm not sure, I only got into android with 1.5 :(
Jun 05 21:35:54 <KNY> I notice that the updated Phone app now has an overlay
Jun 05 21:39:35 <doc_savage> KNY: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/WindowManager.LayoutParams.html#FLAG_IGNORE_CHEEK_PRESSES
Jun 05 21:39:58 <_Auron_> this is driving me crazy!
Jun 05 21:40:02 <KNY> great, thanks doc_savage
Jun 05 21:40:21 <doc_savage> np, I'm learning by researching other ppl's queries :D it's quite good
Jun 05 21:42:49 <KNY> heh
Jun 05 21:44:47 <_Auron_> off to work, hum :|
Jun 05 21:47:36 <digitalspaghetti> yea i like that feature
Jun 05 21:47:41 <digitalspaghetti> i hated hitting numbers in a call
Jun 05 22:03:52 <bdodson> What's the best way to build up an android library in Eclipse? Does it make sense for it to have a manifest file?
Jun 05 23:16:06 <dk_schrute> romainguy_: Hey...
Jun 05 23:19:34 <ctate> Idle Time: 4 hours 41 minutes :)
Jun 05 23:20:11 <KNY> what a slacker
Jun 05 23:20:26 <sammyF> ctate: seriously? on a friday night?
Jun 05 23:22:29 <sammyF> now just tell us he doesn't work on the weekend, so that we can be uterly shocked
Jun 06 00:08:15 <romainguy_> KNY: hey I was at JavaOne giving a talk :p
Jun 06 00:08:29 <KNY> romainguy_, nice. what about?
Jun 06 00:08:34 <romainguy_> animations
Jun 06 00:08:36 <KNY> (well, UI on Android I assume)
Jun 06 00:08:50 <romainguy_> nope
Jun 06 00:08:53 <romainguy_> animations in general
Jun 06 00:09:05 <romainguy_> actually, it was about the 12 rules of cartoons animations and how to apply them to UIs
Jun 06 00:09:09 <KNY> is it going to be online anywhere that you know of?
Jun 06 00:09:15 <romainguy_> yes the JavaOne web site
Jun 06 00:09:40 <KNY> nice
Jun 06 00:10:13 <svm_invictvs-> romainguy_: Heya!
Jun 06 00:10:23 <svm_invictvs-> romainguy_: I'm sending off this email that you asked.
Jun 06 00:10:38 <romainguy_> ok
Jun 06 00:11:10 <sammyF> svm_invictvs:was that the one about your talk at E3?
Jun 06 00:11:24 <sammyF> svm_invictvs: with the game publisher's big honcho
Jun 06 00:11:53 <KNY> man, where has jasonchen been? he's been MIA for like a week now
Jun 06 00:17:32 <KNY> romainguy_, it's not online yet! I demand a refund!
Jun 06 00:19:31 <jt436> KNY: jasonchen is out of the country for work
Jun 06 00:19:55 <KNY> damn. is morridl (is that right?) with him?
Jun 06 00:20:22 <KNY> I was told to speak with one of them and they've both been MIA ever since. I think they're avoiding me :(
Jun 06 00:20:44 <jt436> they are both very busy
Jun 06 00:21:13 <KNY> haha yeah, I'm mainly just griping
Jun 06 00:21:37 <KNY> I'm not accusing them of anything except working too hard to have time for some schmuck on IRC :)
Jun 06 00:25:11 <jt436> you should have gone to I/O and spoke with them in person ;)
Jun 06 00:25:49 <KNY> jt436, *sigh* don't remind me
Jun 06 00:25:52 <KNY> I don't know why I didn't go
Jun 06 00:25:59 <KNY> I even have a friend in SF I could have stayed with
Jun 06 00:26:04 <KNY> and $50 for registration is a steal
Jun 06 00:26:18 <jt436> tsk tsk
Jun 06 00:26:25 <jt436> most of the sessions are online now
Jun 06 00:26:37 <KNY> jt436, I know, I've been watching them when I have time
Jun 06 00:26:52 <KNY> unfortunately, I can't download an Ion :)
Jun 06 00:27:05 <jt436> true :(
Jun 06 00:27:10 <KNY> also, being at I/O wouldn't have helped because it's a question about ADC2
Jun 06 00:27:39 <jt436> why not, I'm sure they could have answered considering it was announced at I/O
Jun 06 00:28:05 <KNY> jt436, because I didn't think of my idea until several days later :)
Jun 06 00:28:19 <jt436> ah ok
Jun 06 00:35:54 <hunterp> why doesnt my kml validate: http://beta.feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcodejanitor.us%2Fstops.kml
Jun 06 02:02:12 <bwr> Hi, I am learning the SDK currently by creating a really simple app. However, I am having a problem. Does anyone mind taking a look at my code?
Jun 06 02:03:45 <KNY> bwr, a) ask your question, b) pastebin any relative code
Jun 06 02:06:01 <bwr> I think my problem is in my sql. I am trying to create a check list that after you mark that you've done the item it will disappear for the rest of the day, but reappear tomorrow. http://github.com/bwr/Kaizen/blob/33ad1fe47d37ef4f0287dd487a59a6e46637705a/src/tinycandyhammers/kaizen/KaizenDatabase.java
Jun 06 02:08:14 <bwr> Is that question specific enough?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 06 02:59:59 2009