**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 17 02:59:57 2009
Jun 17 03:01:13 <b0nn> hrm, why doesn't incoming call broadcast in 1.5?
Jun 17 03:01:19 <b0nn> and yes I have <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE"/>
Jun 17 03:01:25 <b0nn>            <action android:name="android.telephony.TelephonyManager.ACTION_PHONE_STATE_CHANGED"/>
Jun 17 03:45:46 <s1516> If i have 'WebView' in my layout xml file, does that mean android will start the Browser process for me?
Jun 17 03:51:48 <_annex_> hi all, just got my G1 Dev phone, is there any documentation out there that details how to unlock it?
Jun 17 03:52:14 <_annex_> i assumed that it would arrive that way (unlocked)
Jun 17 03:52:16 <sammyF> _annex_: it's a dev phone? then it's not locked
Jun 17 03:52:33 <_annex_> i thought so too, but i'm stuck at the "No SIM card" dialog
Jun 17 03:53:00 <sammyF> well ... you DO need a sim card
Jun 17 03:53:12 <sammyF> it's not locked to a particular provider though
Jun 17 03:53:21 <_annex_> doh
Jun 17 03:53:28 <sammyF> so, if you have an old sim card, you can just use that
Jun 17 03:53:30 <_annex_> I was hoping I could develop with just WiFi
Jun 17 03:53:35 <sammyF> even if it's not valid
Jun 17 03:53:42 <_annex_> oh ic
Jun 17 03:53:43 <sammyF> _annex_: you can
Jun 17 03:53:55 <sammyF> _annex_: I don't have 3G neither
Jun 17 03:54:01 <_annex_> so i just need to put something in there so it doesn't freak out
Jun 17 03:54:12 <sammyF> you just need a SIM Card, yeah
Jun 17 03:54:17 <_annex_> ahh thank you :)
Jun 17 03:54:29 <sammyF> if you have another phone, you can use the sim card from that, for example
Jun 17 03:54:46 <_annex_> sadly my other phone is an iPhone
Jun 17 03:54:56 <_annex_> and its a pain to get out
Jun 17 03:54:56 <sammyF> that is really sad :P
Jun 17 03:55:38 <sammyF> no old phones with some paycard SIM  lying around
Jun 17 03:55:41 <sammyF> ?
Jun 17 03:56:29 <sammyF> or a gf/bf/significant other you could ask for their phone (and then tell them that the phone doesn't work and you don't know why, AFTER you removed the SIM and put it in your G1) ?
Jun 17 03:56:44 <_annex_> haha
Jun 17 03:56:53 <_annex_> my gf has an iPhone as well, so that won't work, good idea though
Jun 17 03:57:20 <sammyF> or just go to the next provider sales shop, and ask for their, phonefree offer
Jun 17 03:57:24 <sammyF> that's what I did here
Jun 17 03:57:33 <_annex_> I will have to go to a AT&T tomorrow and ask for a dead one
Jun 17 03:57:49 <_annex_> yup, too bad I can't do any work on it tonight, oh well
Jun 17 03:57:53 <sammyF> got a SIM CARD without phone, running on Parcards for 20 euros or something like that.
Jun 17 03:58:28 <sammyF> well ... it shouldn't be DEAD dead
Jun 17 03:59:06 <sammyF> it should still work. As far as I know, you don't need to have any subscription or connection with it.
Jun 17 03:59:06 <_annex_> so I have to get a paid plan?
Jun 17 03:59:14 <_annex_> oooh
Jun 17 03:59:26 <wmealing> i think virgin offer free sim cards in AU
Jun 17 03:59:36 <sammyF> thus the question about old phones lying aroudn
Jun 17 03:59:36 <wmealing> i'm sure that there are similar offers around the place
Jun 17 03:59:43 <_annex_> i'll go to TMobile, AT&T will probably have no clue what I'm asking for
Jun 17 03:59:53 <sammyF> lol
Jun 17 03:59:57 <s1516> Can anyone please help me how to install IM app on the emulator?
Jun 17 04:00:06 <sammyF> anyway, the point is that hte phone should be able to read the SIM
Jun 17 04:00:20 <_annex_> got it
Jun 17 04:00:41 <wmealing> s1516, google "install application adb android"
Jun 17 04:01:04 <s1516> but where can I find the apk for IM app?
Jun 17 04:02:34 <_annex_> s1516, have you searched the market?
Jun 17 04:02:36 <wmealing> now see, that is a different problem
Jun 17 04:02:55 <s1516> i want to install it on my emluator
Jun 17 04:03:01 <s1516> not on my G1 phone.
Jun 17 04:03:16 <s1516> and there is no 'android market' in the emulator
Jun 17 04:03:17 <sammyF> s1516: you can do it with adb or ddms I think
Jun 17 04:03:26 <sammyF> s1516: you just need the apk
Jun 17 04:03:37 <s1516> but problem is where i can find the IM apk?
Jun 17 04:03:43 <_annex_> google.com?
Jun 17 04:03:50 <_annex_> hehe
Jun 17 04:04:28 <wmealing> s1516, the IM application is not part of the standard sdk, its specific to google talk . (assuming we are thinking of the same thing).
Jun 17 04:04:52 <s1516> no, there are 2 icons, one is IM one is GTalk
Jun 17 04:05:00 <s1516> i understand GTalk is not part of SDK
Jun 17 04:05:07 <s1516> i just need the IM app
Jun 17 04:06:40 <sammyF> s1516: not sure what you're talking about. all I have on my G1 is gtalk
Jun 17 04:07:25 <zinx> the IM app in AOSP doesn't have any protocols - those are all closed source
Jun 17 04:08:00 <zinx> you will have to get it off a phone with it, and pull the plugins and such from that too
Jun 17 04:18:18 <s1516> but will it run on emulator ?
Jun 17 04:21:36 <sammyF> who knows?! try it out
Jun 17 04:22:28 * sammyF must be tired. he just read "but will it blend?"
Jun 17 04:36:00 <sammyF> nighty
Jun 17 04:53:05 <imran514> Hii All..!!
Jun 17 04:55:25 <imran514> i want to update my Application in the Android Market and at  the same time i don't  want to loos  my previous comments..how  can u  :)do this..any help or any link...!!
Jun 17 04:55:28 <imran514> i want to update my Application in the Android Market and at  the same time i don't  want to loos  my previous comments..how  can u  :)do this..any help or any link...!!
Jun 17 05:14:55 <wmealing> hmm
Jun 17 05:15:05 <wmealing> repeating wont help you
Jun 17 05:15:48 <imran514> sorry for that..i thouht of editing it,....skype
Jun 17 05:29:12 * GazZzz finally got an unlimited plan for his G1 sim :-D
Jun 17 05:30:39 <zinx> no more $33,238.53 bills each month because you're paying by the byte?
Jun 17 05:34:43 <plediii> how do I get the id of a sub view created by in xml layout?
Jun 17 05:35:42 <plediii> hmm findViewByName should work
Jun 17 05:36:01 <zinx> yeah
Jun 17 05:36:40 <zinx> wait, are you trying to find the id from the View itself?
Jun 17 05:37:04 <plediii> I'm just trying to get the view
Jun 17 05:37:15 <plediii> specifically, I want the empty textview for a listview
Jun 17 05:37:23 <plediii> so I can change the text
Jun 17 05:37:41 <plediii> findViewByName isn't really a function :-/
Jun 17 05:37:47 <zinx> ah
Jun 17 05:38:00 <zinx> findViewById is probably what you want
Jun 17 05:38:18 <zinx> the id can be one of the auto-generated R.id.* constants
Jun 17 05:39:06 <zinx> (note that it's only generated when you build, so it may not be up-to-date - just ignore red squigglies if you're typing the right thing ;) )
Jun 17 05:40:19 <plediii> how do I make the squiggles go away?
Jun 17 05:40:25 <zinx> build
Jun 17 05:41:31 <plediii> they aren't showing up
Jun 17 05:41:35 <GazZzz> zinx: indeed just had to pay £60
Jun 17 05:41:48 <zinx> plediii: hmmm
Jun 17 05:42:17 <zinx> plediii: you're not importing android.R are you? if you are, don't
Jun 17 05:42:24 <plediii> no
Jun 17 05:42:24 <imran514> i want to update my Application in the Android Market and at  the same time i don't  want to loos  my previous comments..how  can u do this..any help or any link...!!:)
Jun 17 05:42:32 <plediii> the textview is android:id="@android:id/empty"
Jun 17 05:42:47 <plediii> where is that supposed to end up in R?
Jun 17 05:42:51 <zinx> R.id.empty
Jun 17 05:43:14 <zinx> though, i think that specifier may be wrong
Jun 17 05:43:23 <plediii> there is no R.id
Jun 17 05:44:17 <zinx> plediii: use android:id="@+id/empty"
Jun 17 05:44:42 <zinx> plediii: there should be a R.id created in the same package as the app source
Jun 17 05:45:07 <zinx> in R.java
Jun 17 05:47:22 <plediii> I added that worked
Jun 17 05:47:24 <plediii> great, thank you
Jun 17 05:47:32 <plediii> i guess it was that "android" that got in the way
Jun 17 05:47:36 <plediii> i picked it up from the tutorial
Jun 17 05:47:49 * _Auron_ sighs
Jun 17 05:47:51 <_Auron_> this is going to be fun
Jun 17 05:48:14 <plediii> a tutorial
Jun 17 05:48:16 <_Auron_> ontop of the severe lack of information about openGL ES with android, now I'm going into using GL11, which is even less supported
Jun 17 05:48:33 <plediii> so now the listactivity won't be able to find it automatically I suppose
Jun 17 05:58:19 <plediii> nope, the empty list view has to have the android:id
Jun 17 06:02:22 <denis^da> Could someone confirm that there is still no broadcast intent for incoming phone calls ?
Jun 17 06:07:27 <GazZzz> im trying to use the video player in the api demos but this null returns nul for some reason - any ideas?  extras = getIntent().getExtras();
Jun 17 06:07:35 <GazZzz> sorry this line returns null
Jun 17 06:19:38 <GazZzz> playing a video in android is a bit of a mare
Jun 17 06:19:44 <GazZzz> been trying ages not got one to work
Jun 17 06:20:09 <zinx> uhm
Jun 17 06:20:16 <zinx> maybe your videos are in the wrong format?
Jun 17 06:21:31 <doc_savage> I'm writing a PHP script I want my phone to talk to, provided I'm using SSL, it's safe enough to pass the username/password in the GET request isn't it? to save messing around with sessions and cookies etc.
Jun 17 06:21:57 <doc_savage> (with every GET request)*
Jun 17 06:22:42 <zinx> assuming the SSL connection is secure, and the URLs aren't being logged by anything
Jun 17 06:24:05 <doc_savage> cool, the client side app will request and forget :)
Jun 17 06:25:34 <GazZzz> zinx 3gp should work right?
Jun 17 06:26:00 <GazZzz> i seem to get  Command PLAYER_SET_DATA_SOURCE completed with an error or info PVMFErrNotSupported
Jun 17 06:26:24 <deebo> user/pass in get request? hrr
Jun 17 06:27:35 <doc_savage> deebo: well or POST... either or... lol my query's more with sending it with each request, instead of creating a session on the server and tracking the session ID on the client
Jun 17 06:29:13 <doc_savage> for a custom app, not the browser :)
Jun 17 06:43:37 <GazZzz> zinx, played when i passed in path from sdcard
Jun 17 06:43:42 <GazZzz> anyone had seekto() actually work?
Jun 17 06:51:45 <ravon> GazZzz: Apparently video encoded with Handbrake using the iPhone profile works.
Jun 17 06:53:00 <GazZzz> is there some special way to call it, like can you just call seekto() while its playing or do you have to pasue ro stop or something?
Jun 17 06:53:06 <GazZzz> or is it purely the video format yeh
Jun 17 06:53:38 <GazZzz> handbreak i was gonan chec that out today anyway lol coincidence
Jun 17 06:55:50 <GazZzz> ravon:?
Jun 17 07:28:28 <b0nn> hrm, two things, why isn't my code finding its GPS location, and why isnt it detecting incoming calls
Jun 17 07:28:38 <b0nn> scratchpad code: http://pastebin.com/m16d85af3
Jun 17 09:56:16 <digitalspaghetti> b0nn: a) do you have your GPS switched on b) are you inside?
Jun 17 09:56:50 <digitalspaghetti> you're best not to hard code the service to usr
Jun 17 09:56:51 <digitalspaghetti> *use
Jun 17 09:59:13 <digitalspaghetti> your best using Context.getSystemService(Context.LOCATION_SERVICE)
Jun 17 09:59:23 <digitalspaghetti> that will return a string array of the services available
Jun 17 09:59:50 <digitalspaghetti> so you will probably get back ['network', 'gps'] and if GPS fails you can fall back to network location services
Jun 17 10:24:13 <raugust> if I have a ListView android:id="@+id/favlist" in my main.xml and use ListView lv = (ListView) findViewById(R.id.favlist); in my Activity why should that not work?
Jun 17 10:30:05 <digitalspaghetti> have you setContentview
Jun 17 10:30:15 <raugust> super.onCreate(savedInstanceState);
Jun 17 10:30:16 <raugust>       setContentView(R.layout.main);
Jun 17 10:30:31 <digitalspaghetti> paste the code
Jun 17 10:30:35 <digitalspaghetti> pastebin.com
Jun 17 10:33:42 <raugust> done
Jun 17 10:33:54 <digitalspaghetti> ok, what's the link?
Jun 17 10:34:22 <raugust> http://pastebin.com/d5b3f8456
Jun 17 10:34:42 <raugust> and my main.xml  : http://pastebin.com/d2ac8b599
Jun 17 10:35:17 <digitalspaghetti> what's the error you get?
Jun 17 10:35:31 <raugust> 06-17 12:28:16.233: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(711): Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: Your content must have a ListView whose id attribute is 'android.R.id.list'
Jun 17 10:36:14 <digitalspaghetti> well the easiest thing is to change it from favlist to list in the @+id
Jun 17 10:36:20 <raugust> yeah..
Jun 17 10:36:38 <raugust> but doesn't that defeat the purpose of being able to name the id in the xml ?
Jun 17 10:36:55 <digitalspaghetti> also, i would recommend creating the textview and and autocomplete in another view and using a Listview footer
Jun 17 10:38:47 <raugust> ok tnx.. i'll have a look at that..
Jun 17 10:38:59 <digitalspaghetti> yea i think that is the reason, you can't mix a ListView with other elements inside the linear layout
Jun 17 10:39:00 <raugust> you mean making a group for the text and autocomplete?
Jun 17 10:39:08 <digitalspaghetti> http://bitbucket.org/digitalspaghetti/learning-android-examples/src/tip/res/layout/rss_list.xml
Jun 17 10:39:09 <raugust> ah pl
Jun 17 10:39:10 <raugust> ok
Jun 17 10:39:17 <digitalspaghetti> see that works fine
Jun 17 10:40:22 <raugust> yeah.. i had a listview by itself working before as well..
Jun 17 10:40:39 <raugust> i'll try and group the stuff
Jun 17 10:40:46 <digitalspaghetti> http://paste.ifies.org/507
Jun 17 10:41:04 <digitalspaghetti> as you can see i use the LayoutInflator to inflate a entry form, which is a form in a RelativeLayout
Jun 17 10:41:28 <digitalspaghetti> then I use .addHeaderView to the ListView to do it, and what I get is a ListView that has the form at the top
Jun 17 10:44:49 <raugust> allright.. tnx
Jun 17 10:54:41 <Amorgos> can anyone tell me how to fetch the calling Activity instance from a Layout object?
Jun 17 11:03:27 <Amorgos> or maybe put it another way...
Jun 17 11:03:55 <Amorgos> I have an attribute in the Activity that I want to make available to everything that gets called by that activity
Jun 17 11:04:05 <Amorgos> how is the best way to achieve this?
Jun 17 11:18:18 <ModusTolensUnite> pass it to the constructor of every object you create from the activity
Jun 17 11:20:18 <Amorgos> ok. I could do that, but I would have thought there would be a way to pass "activity local" objects and stuff to it's sub activities and layouts without having to do that
Jun 17 11:24:34 <Amorgos> and if i override a Layout constructor with an extra object I can't instantiate that Layout in xml anymore
Jun 17 11:25:11 <mmjack> Is there any wakelock kind of thing for WiFi? I want my application to prevent the WiFi from stopping when the phone goes to sleep.
Jun 17 11:27:21 <Radix_> there's a package for that in the market
Jun 17 11:27:40 <Radix_> dunno how it does it tho ;)
Jun 17 12:07:00 <Gaz> anyone got any good links to how id do an http post in android
Jun 17 12:10:26 <cutmasta> Gaz, i do posts with apache httpclient lib
Jun 17 12:10:39 <cutmasta> simple
Jun 17 12:11:54 <Gaz> any url?
Jun 17 12:12:03 <Gaz> ah i`ll google :)
Jun 17 12:17:49 <Gaz> is it part of android as standard?
Jun 17 12:19:50 <cutmasta> yes
Jun 17 12:20:10 <Gaz> just wish there was a well simple example
Jun 17 12:20:11 <cutmasta> import org.apache.commons.httpclient.
Jun 17 12:20:42 <cutmasta> http://hc.apache.org/httpclient-3.x/tutorial.html
Jun 17 12:20:58 <cutmasta> dont know if android uses a new version
Jun 17 12:21:16 <Gaz> yeh i was tryign that but HttpClient client = new HttpClient();
Jun 17 12:21:46 <cutmasta> http://developer.android.com/reference/org/apache/http/client/package-summary.html
Jun 17 12:22:02 <Gaz> cannot be instantiated apparently
Jun 17 12:23:31 <cutmasta> DefaultHttpClient()
Jun 17 12:23:40 <cutmasta> httpclient is an interface
Jun 17 12:23:40 <cutmasta> afail
Jun 17 12:23:42 <cutmasta> afaik
Jun 17 12:31:44 <Gaz> ah :)
Jun 17 12:31:45 <Gaz> thx
Jun 17 12:31:48 <Gaz> soz a bit tired
Jun 17 13:26:22 <Russ_T> Hey all, you know the Android developers guide, is there an offline version available to download please? I want to start dev on my train ride home but could struggle without the guide/internet
Jun 17 13:28:16 <wm_eddie> It's not in the SDK?
Jun 17 13:28:39 <Russ_T> Oh you could be right, I'm such an idiot sorry, at work so haven't had chance to look at it all properly, thank you
Jun 17 13:29:01 <Russ_T> Installed the metal detector from market place this morn, amazing lol
Jun 17 13:31:49 <digitalspaghetti> you could have some fun with that making other "detectors"
Jun 17 13:32:00 <digitalspaghetti> like an Idiot Detector
Jun 17 13:32:28 <anno^da> digitalspaghetti: Not quite nice. Tzz.
Jun 17 13:32:56 <digitalspaghetti> yea not nice, but none of these detectors would be
Jun 17 13:33:11 <anno^da> ;)
Jun 17 13:34:15 <Russ_T> it kind of works though
Jun 17 13:35:41 <Russ_T> are there any good tutorial android dev sites I could save for my journey, or is the sdk/examples plenty to get going with? it's been a few years since I've done any java
Jun 17 13:36:11 <digitalspaghetti> are you willing to spend some money?
Jun 17 13:36:24 <Russ_T> depends on how much...
Jun 17 13:36:41 <digitalspaghetti> you could get the e-books from commonsware.org - $40 for 3 full android dev books
Jun 17 13:37:28 <digitalspaghetti> one is 469 pages, the second is 247 and the last is 419
Jun 17 13:37:40 <digitalspaghetti> plus you get all the free updates
Jun 17 13:37:43 <Russ_T> jees, I was about to moan about $40 for some ebooks
Jun 17 13:37:48 <Russ_T> lots of pages
Jun 17 13:38:20 <Russ_T> I only want to build a simple app to start (bit of map work/gps) so I'll see how I get on, will bookmark that link though thanks
Jun 17 13:38:27 <digitalspaghetti> yea, they cover a lot of stuff
Jun 17 13:39:01 <Russ_T> Do you think the api etc has matured enough now that those books won't be totally out of date by next week?
Jun 17 13:39:21 <Russ_T> seems to be update after update (absolutely love my phone due to it though)
Jun 17 13:39:23 <digitalspaghetti> no, they get updated quite often
Jun 17 13:39:29 <digitalspaghetti> all the books are 1.5 compatable just now
Jun 17 13:39:53 <anno^da> commonsware books are great
Jun 17 13:39:59 <Russ_T> I might wait for 2.0 or something first, quite poor at the moment
Jun 17 13:40:11 <Russ_T> never heard of it, i'll check it out though thanks
Jun 17 13:40:12 <anno^da> and Mark Murphy is a great guy
Jun 17 13:40:41 <anno^da> Just find an error in the books (typos or sth like that) and you will get free updates even longer :>
Jun 17 13:40:56 <Russ_T> no way!
Jun 17 13:40:58 <anno^da> The basic book covers nearly everything for the beginner
Jun 17 13:41:14 <Russ_T> I'll look it up now thanks, happy to spend $20
Jun 17 13:41:19 <digitalspaghetti> Yea, he's even on twitter and doesn't mind you asking questions (as long as you don't bombard him, and if he has the time :)
Jun 17 13:41:34 <Russ_T> what's his twitter please? I'll add to my gReader
Jun 17 13:41:35 <anno^da> True. He always answers to emails.
Jun 17 13:41:47 <digitalspaghetti> :o
Jun 17 13:42:05 <digitalspaghetti> commonsguy
Jun 17 13:42:15 <digitalspaghetti> sorry the :o was for another channel :)
Jun 17 13:43:50 <Russ_T> hey it's $35 for a year of updates!
Jun 17 13:44:13 <Russ_T> for ALL the books, seems ok, and in 12 months time I can download the latest copy and keep that forever right?
Jun 17 13:44:26 <digitalspaghetti> yup
Jun 17 13:44:29 <anno^da> right
Jun 17 13:44:39 <Russ_T> SOLD! thanks guys
Jun 17 13:45:34 <anno^da> digitalspaghetti: we should start a pormotion business
Jun 17 13:45:40 <anno^da> for mark :D
Jun 17 13:45:51 <Russ_T> I don't spot an affiliate box in the form :(
Jun 17 13:46:22 <anno^da> haha yeah well there is none :)
Jun 17 13:47:26 <digitalspaghetti> yea, but say hello to him on twitter and say tane said hellow :)
Jun 17 13:47:29 <digitalspaghetti> *-w
Jun 17 13:54:21 <mib_pdvd7iep> Is there HTTP layer support for Android?
Jun 17 14:08:13 <Russ_T> I've now got four pdfs, thanks so much guys, would never have found this
Jun 17 14:12:03 <anno^da> Russ_T: no problem. They are pretty difficult to find. :)
Jun 17 14:14:43 <sammyF> anno^da: especially when the site seems to be down oO
Jun 17 14:14:53 <sammyF> www.commonsware.org, right?
Jun 17 14:15:35 <anno^da> http://commonsware.com/
Jun 17 14:16:22 <sammyF> ahh ... xchat was adding the www automatically
Jun 17 14:16:23 <sammyF> thanks
Jun 17 14:17:19 <sammyF> digitalspaghetti: you asked yesterday whether anybody was doing openGL ES stuff, right?
Jun 17 14:17:48 <digitalspaghetti> yes
Jun 17 14:18:13 <digitalspaghetti> specfically 2d OpenGL ES stuff (parallax views + sprites)
Jun 17 14:18:27 <digitalspaghetti> Canvas just isn't going to handle what I want to do :)
Jun 17 14:19:04 <sammyF> hmm ... not going to be much help then. doing 3D stuff at the moment
Jun 17 14:19:14 <sammyF> well ... kind of 3D at least
Jun 17 14:20:11 <digitalspaghetti> well apart from anddev.org (:smith:) do you know any good opengl es resources?
Jun 17 14:20:33 <digitalspaghetti> pretty much everything i can find is standard OpenGL and/or C/C++ stuff
Jun 17 14:20:37 <sammyF> one sec
Jun 17 14:21:09 <sammyF> you got the typhoonlabs tuts?
Jun 17 14:21:21 <sammyF> http://www.typhoonlabs.com/
Jun 17 14:21:32 <sammyF> most c++ stuff can be ported easily to java btw
Jun 17 14:23:37 <sammyF> but most stuff for openGL ES is for either Symbian or iPHone. nearly nothing specifically for Android. And even the stuff that's available for the two other platforms is very "well .. here is how you initialize it. now you're on your own"
Jun 17 14:26:37 <digitalspaghetti> no, i haven't seen this
Jun 17 14:26:42 <sammyF> most of the OpenGL Es stuff I wrote so far was trial and error, based on the triangle example
Jun 17 14:26:52 <digitalspaghetti> ok, cool.
Jun 17 14:27:05 <sammyF> the performance is ... well ... not particularly stellar
Jun 17 14:27:08 <digitalspaghetti> I watched the I/O video in game dev and the engine he is working on it pretty much what I need :)
Jun 17 14:27:17 <digitalspaghetti> but he's not releasing the source code yet
Jun 17 14:27:22 <sammyF> heh
Jun 17 14:27:59 <digitalspaghetti> cool, i'll check this site out then - thanks :)
Jun 17 14:28:04 <sammyF> np
Jun 17 14:28:26 <sammyF> the opengl ES tutorials will point you at least in the right direction
Jun 17 15:41:56 <bnovc> how can I run the SDK without creating an app first? Just run the base system... since `emulator` requires a parameter
Jun 17 15:42:10 <bnovc> the docs seem to be all Eclipse focused and don't give information about how this kind of thing works
Jun 17 15:43:20 <Warui> it does?
Jun 17 15:43:27 <Warui> yes, it wants an avd
Jun 17 15:43:35 <Warui> not an android application
Jun 17 15:43:47 <Warui> think of it as a virtual box
Jun 17 15:44:59 <bnovc> avd != application?
Jun 17 15:45:14 <Warui> true
Jun 17 15:45:18 <bnovc> i see...
Jun 17 15:45:22 <Warui> android virtual device
Jun 17 15:47:39 <bnovc> is the emulator scaled down to purposefully run more slowly to act like a phone?
Jun 17 15:48:06 <Warui> don't think so
Jun 17 15:48:19 <bnovc> it seems very slow to start
Jun 17 15:48:21 <Warui> you can mingle around with network latency and stuff
Jun 17 15:48:33 <bnovc> i can start a windows vm faster than i can boot the emulator :\
Jun 17 15:48:34 <Warui> it _is_ just a simulation of an os ;)
Jun 17 15:49:02 <Warui> impressive one, yet only a simulation
Jun 17 15:49:23 <KNY> Warui, no, it's an emulation
Jun 17 15:49:24 <bnovc> ok one other question...how are you supposed to install apps? There is no marketplace icon, and the google app website doesn't have any download button
Jun 17 15:49:57 <KNY> the reason it's slower is because it has to emulate the arm instructions into your platform's native ones, whereas a VM just gets passed through since they're already native.
Jun 17 15:50:11 <bnovc> ah, that's true
Jun 17 15:50:56 <KNY> if you were running an ARM device, the emulator would likely be pretty snappy :-)
Jun 17 15:51:21 <bnovc> i have a feeling it would be pretty difficult to get running on the ARM computer i have by me
Jun 17 15:52:45 <sammyF> KNY: whenever you want me to do some testing ... I'm happy for anything that gets me off openGL Es ;)
Jun 17 15:53:03 <KNY> sammyF, haha, I've got some JNI stuff to figure out first
Jun 17 15:53:24 <KNY> because if I can't get that working, then I might as well not write the app
Jun 17 15:54:07 <bnovc> so how am I supposed to get apps when all these websites don't have any download buttons
Jun 17 15:54:17 <sammyF> KNY: I know the feeling ;)
Jun 17 15:54:25 <KNY> bnovc, you don't
Jun 17 15:54:31 <sammyF> bnovc: write them?
Jun 17 15:54:43 <bnovc> well, i plan to write apps, but i was also curious about installing some...
Jun 17 15:55:01 <sammyF> bnovc: it's for development purpose, and not thought as a full Android Device replacement
Jun 17 15:55:04 <KNY> bnovc, go to a third-party market
Jun 17 15:55:18 <KNY> andappstore.com is one I believe
Jun 17 15:55:26 <bnovc> so the emulator is blocked from installing apps?
Jun 17 15:55:36 <sammyF> bnovc: no, of course not
Jun 17 15:55:41 <KNY> that would be useless
Jun 17 15:55:51 <bnovc> *in the tradition wall
Jun 17 15:55:52 <bnovc> *way
Jun 17 15:55:53 <sammyF> bnovc: but you don't have access to the market, for one
Jun 17 15:56:00 <bnovc> sammyF: hm, well why is that?
Jun 17 15:56:03 <KNY> bnovc, you can't access market, but you can install through browser or ADB
Jun 17 15:56:20 <KNY> bnovc, because having Market on the emulator would be an extremely easy way to abuse the system?
Jun 17 15:56:21 <bnovc> i see...they should make that more clear on the website :\
Jun 17 15:56:28 <KNY> and Market on emulator would be completely useless
Jun 17 15:56:32 <bnovc> what do you mean by abuse the system?
Jun 17 15:56:48 <sammyF> bnovc: the emulator is basically a rooted android device.
Jun 17 15:56:49 <KNY> bnovc, I could fire up 10,000 emulator instances and download my application 10,000 times
Jun 17 15:56:59 <sammyF> and what KNY said
Jun 17 15:57:05 <bnovc> does that give you some benefit?
Jun 17 15:57:10 <sammyF> KNY: ... now you brought me an idea ;)
Jun 17 15:57:18 <KNY> bnovc, it does if I have them all go give myself 5 stars
Jun 17 15:57:27 <bnovc> can't you just install and uninstall it on your device?
Jun 17 15:57:39 <bnovc> or i'm assuming someone has ported the marketplace app to the emulator
Jun 17 15:57:42 <KNY> bnovc, no, it would see that it's only one device
Jun 17 15:57:44 <sammyF> bnovc: and it puts you at the top of the application lists
Jun 17 15:58:17 <KNY> on a related note, one of my apps has 234 more downloads before I get into the 50,000-100,000 downloads category
Jun 17 15:58:48 * sammyF fears the nightmares he'll get tonight by picturing people giving themselves 10000 5star ratings and breaking the market even more
Jun 17 15:58:58 <KNY> haha
Jun 17 15:59:12 <sammyF> KNY: nice! paid one?
Jun 17 15:59:17 <KNY> sammyF, no
Jun 17 15:59:22 <KNY> I don't have any paid apps
Jun 17 15:59:31 <sammyF> KNY: ah. (and too bad in this case)
Jun 17 15:59:36 <KNY> true
Jun 17 15:59:51 <KNY> 20,072 * 0.99 * 0.70 = KNY's buying shots tonight
Jun 17 15:59:52 <KNY> haha
Jun 17 16:00:03 <sammyF> lol .. yeah ;)
Jun 17 16:00:22 <sammyF> speaking of which : I finally broke the barrier!
Jun 17 16:00:24 <bnovc> except it would be a lot lower if paid :P
Jun 17 16:00:28 <sammyF> the 30$ one :P
Jun 17 16:00:33 <KNY> sammyF, haha, nice
Jun 17 16:00:44 <sammyF> I can now buy myself TWO pizzas :=
Jun 17 16:01:12 <jt436> sammyF: is that total or for a single app?
Jun 17 16:03:28 <sammyF> jt436: total
Jun 17 16:03:56 <jt436> I have just crossed $15
Jun 17 16:04:03 <sammyF> jt436: the interesting part is that it doesn't matter whether it's 99c or 2.99 ... apps sell the same amount
Jun 17 16:04:18 * KNY goes to make one $30 app
Jun 17 16:04:19 <sammyF> jt436: cool :) You'll overtake soon :)
Jun 17 16:04:20 <jt436> don't make them 99c then ;)
Jun 17 16:04:32 <sammyF> jt436: I don't anymore ;)
Jun 17 16:04:40 <jt436> I have 5 purchases outstanding, no doubt 2 will cancel
Jun 17 16:04:42 <KNY> jt436, I think he means $0.99 * X = $2.99 * Y
Jun 17 16:04:52 <KNY> but I could be wrong
Jun 17 16:05:03 <sammyF> KNY: no. jt436is right
Jun 17 16:05:10 <sammyF> KNY: X and Y are the same
Jun 17 16:05:14 <KNY> ah. I suppose that's because people are cheap bastards
Jun 17 16:05:18 <jt436> ha
Jun 17 16:05:34 <jt436> luckily we have day jobs
Jun 17 16:05:35 <sammyF> makes sense though. if people are really going to buy, they'll do it for 2$ more too
Jun 17 16:05:42 <KNY> and anyone with an intellect realizes that the difference between spending $0.99 and $2.99 is stupidly negligible.
Jun 17 16:05:45 <sammyF> jt436: you wish ;)
Jun 17 16:06:04 <jt436> only one person has left a comment though, don't know why more don't if they paid for the app
Jun 17 16:06:19 <KNY> I bet that most people that complain write a scathing comment about how it's too much while they're in line to pick up their third daily $8 coffee
Jun 17 16:06:23 <sammyF> jt436: professionally jobless. thankfully I live in a country with good unemployment laws (at least for the next 6 months to come)
Jun 17 16:06:40 <jt436> ah ok, sorry didn't know
Jun 17 16:06:48 <jt436> thats why you can get so much done
Jun 17 16:06:59 <sammyF> jt436: lol ... seriously, it's quite okay for the moment. more time to code
Jun 17 16:07:01 <sammyF> yep
Jun 17 16:07:17 <KNY> sammyF, I'm professionally jobless too, but that's because I'm a lazy bum of a college student ;-)
Jun 17 16:07:22 <sammyF> and bad weather to boot, so I can't even go sailing == lots of time on my hand
Jun 17 16:07:39 <jt436> sammyF: did submitting to android sites help at all?
Jun 17 16:07:41 <KNY> that's not actually true though, I'm not lazy. And I'm at least taking a class over the summer..
Jun 17 16:08:02 <sammyF> KNY: well ... it really depends on how you define lazy
Jun 17 16:08:20 <KNY> sammyF, heh
Jun 17 16:08:32 <sammyF> jt436: so far not really. but I still have 3 or 4 reviews coming if everything goes right. I'll see if it boosts anything
Jun 17 16:09:16 <jt436> can you PM the sites that replied to you?
Jun 17 16:09:57 <sammyF> KNY: some people consider me lazy because I can't be arsed to take jobs for the minimum guarateed wage and 2 hours drive away, and prefer to stay at home and work on my own projects ... it's all a matter of choice.
Jun 17 16:10:14 <KNY> sammyF, I would back you in that decision
Jun 17 16:10:27 <jt436>  2 hours :(
Jun 17 16:10:47 <jt436> I can almost see my office from home
Jun 17 16:16:43 <jasta> yawn
Jun 17 16:46:29 <mmmulani> where do I call close() on a database helper if I want it to stay alive for the duration of the Activity?
Jun 17 16:46:46 <mmmulani> I am putting it in onFinish() right now, but apparently this can cause a memory leak
Jun 17 16:46:52 <KNY> mmmulani, onPause()
Jun 17 16:47:25 <KNY> of course, that will close it during screen rotations, so make sure to handle that
Jun 17 16:48:11 <mmmulani> hmmmm if i open() in onCreate, would that handle screen rotations properly?
Jun 17 16:49:03 <KNY> mmmulani, yes, but it will also get closed when another activity comes on top (and I don't believe it would always get reopened because it wouldn't come through onCreate())
Jun 17 16:49:18 <KNY> go look at http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#lcycles
Jun 17 16:49:24 <mmmulani> oh, thanks
Jun 17 16:50:44 <mmmulani> I'm going to try onDestroy()
Jun 17 16:52:31 <KNY> mmmulani, there's no guarantee that onDestroy will ever be called
Jun 17 16:52:46 <KNY> notice that you application can be killed at anytime after onPause()
Jun 17 16:54:03 <mmmulani> oh snap
Jun 17 16:55:31 <jasta> onsaveinstancestate would be called in that event, though
Jun 17 16:58:22 <KNY> that's true
Jun 17 17:05:02 <mmmulani> what type of specification do you provide so that whenever your application launches, it re-uses a previous instance if possible?
Jun 17 17:05:28 <mmmulani> (right now I'm running into a scenario where I can launch my app from the SDK, hit home and then re-launch and get a different instance)
Jun 17 17:07:24 <KNY> android:alwaysRetainTaskState="true"
Jun 17 17:08:33 <mmmulani> hmmm I have already done that
Jun 17 17:08:47 <mmmulani> along with allowTaskReparenting="true" and launchMode="singleTop"
Jun 17 17:28:32 <deebo> how to run "plain java code" in the andoid enviroment, outside the emulator or a phone?
Jun 17 17:28:43 <deebo> for example the w3c DOM api is different from j2se api
Jun 17 18:43:46 <herriojr> so, I can't get my AppWidget Configuration Activity recognized (can't be found when adding the widget), I have it in the appwidget-provider xml (android:configure="com.example.ConfigureActivity"), and I have it in the Android Manifest (<activity android:name="com.example.ConfigureActivity"><intent-filter><action android:name="android.appwidget.action.APPWIDGET_CONFIGURE"/></intent-filter></activity>
Jun 17 19:23:49 <srm> I'm stuck with eclipse no longer uploading the compiled package to the emulator. I already tried with a new avd but I have no succes. Where should I look to fix this? Any hints?
Jun 17 19:24:50 <herriojr> adb install yourpackage.apk
Jun 17 19:24:52 <herriojr> it happened after you uninstalled, right?
Jun 17 19:25:23 <srm> I did not uninstall the package
Jun 17 19:25:38 <srm> it "just" happened.
Jun 17 19:26:13 <KNY> srm, how about an error messge?
Jun 17 19:26:15 <KNY> message*
Jun 17 19:26:29 <srm> no error message as far as I can see.
Jun 17 19:26:42 <herriojr> are you using eclipse?
Jun 17 19:26:46 <srm> yes
Jun 17 19:26:48 <KNY> Eclipse doesn't display an error in the console?
Jun 17 19:27:12 <herriojr> console, not logcat
Jun 17 19:27:17 <srm> the eclipse log states it is performing the activity launch (no error messages at all) - still, there's no package installed
Jun 17 19:27:18 <herriojr> just to clarify :)
Jun 17 19:27:23 <srm> yes :)
Jun 17 19:27:28 <herriojr> how many emulators do you have open?
Jun 17 19:27:31 <srm> 1
Jun 17 19:27:34 <srm> and ddms
Jun 17 19:27:37 <herriojr> do you have a phone connected
Jun 17 19:27:41 <srm> no
Jun 17 19:28:03 <herriojr> I've not run into that, but what I would  try is close eclipse/emulator and try again if you haven't already
Jun 17 19:28:16 <srm> I'll give it a go
Jun 17 19:28:19 <herriojr> and lastly, install via command-line
Jun 17 19:28:26 <herriojr> adb install yourpackage.apk
Jun 17 19:29:04 <Masahiro> hi people
Jun 17 19:29:31 <srm> ah, as we say "reboot tut gut"
Jun 17 19:29:40 <srm> restarting again solved it :)
Jun 17 19:29:59 <srm> thanks for the hint ;)
Jun 17 19:30:25 <Masahiro> i just wanted to know why developing on android was so lame, while buying an iphone is so much smarter and useful
Jun 17 19:30:34 <Masahiro> you disgust me
Jun 17 19:31:21 <herriojr> wow
Jun 17 19:32:37 <srm> *throwing popcorn*
Jun 17 19:39:36 <bnovc> can you ssh to the emulator / see the output from the program?
Jun 17 19:39:46 <jasta> from which program?
Jun 17 19:40:07 <srm> uh, thought local file access is easier ...
Jun 17 19:40:20 <bnovc> well, the main binary but also programs you run subsequently from the menu
Jun 17 19:41:03 <jasta> the main binary?
Jun 17 19:41:24 <bnovc> there is some main binary that is run to initialize the ui. i don't know how thats all setup because i dont know how to get a terminal on it
Jun 17 19:41:30 <jasta> bnovc: i dont think you understand how Android is put together.
Jun 17 19:42:00 <bnovc> how so
Jun 17 19:42:03 <srm> ha, http://www.anddev.org/working_with_files-t115.html explains in nice words why it is a bit different from the standard-java-way. Sandbox galore!
Jun 17 19:42:05 <jasta> there is no "main binary", though the framework is started via /bin/start.
Jun 17 19:42:18 <KNY> heh, AndroidOS.exe
Jun 17 19:42:29 <jasta>  /system/bin/start, actually
Jun 17 19:42:32 <bnovc> well how do I get a terminal on my desktop to the emulator?
Jun 17 19:42:42 <jasta> bnovc: just run adb shell
Jun 17 19:43:25 <bnovc> i see, thanks
Jun 17 19:43:29 <jasta> bnovc: Android has a complex initialization process, with many components involved.  What exactly are you endeavoring to learn?
Jun 17 19:44:25 <bnovc> I was just looking aruond mostly. I downloaded some code I was going to modify to try out more things past the hello world tutorial on google's site, but it crashed
Jun 17 19:44:32 <bnovc> and then i realized I didn't know how to see the output of the program or how to ssh
Jun 17 19:46:09 <srm> bnovc: to get output of your program in the ddms, use the Log Class to create log messages. Also lookup logcat
Jun 17 19:46:18 <bnovc> I would guess that there is some way to debug without eclipse
Jun 17 19:46:23 <srm> System.out.println will not do it
Jun 17 19:46:40 <bnovc> well I was hoping more to see error messages and a backtrace
Jun 17 19:46:44 <srm> bnovc: as statet ddms
Jun 17 19:46:52 <srm> *stated
Jun 17 19:46:54 <bnovc> i'll look into that thanks
Jun 17 19:47:07 <srm> it's in the tools directory :)
Jun 17 19:47:28 <bnovc> oo, snazzy
Jun 17 19:48:05 <srm> 'aight
Jun 17 19:48:23 <jasta> actually i dont use ddms for that
Jun 17 19:48:27 <jasta> i just run adb logcat
Jun 17 19:48:39 <jasta> System.out.println will still go to logcat.
Jun 17 19:48:45 <srm> I see
Jun 17 19:48:48 <jasta> though you should use the android.util.Log class for sure
Jun 17 19:49:00 <ctate> jasta: er uh um it does?
Jun 17 19:49:09 <jasta> yes, it did not used to
Jun 17 19:49:15 <jasta> but it does now.
Jun 17 19:49:16 <ctate> certainly not the case in donut for command-line java apps
Jun 17 19:49:30 <jasta> is he referring to command-line apps?
Jun 17 19:49:36 <ctate> where System.out goes to the command shell, and not to logcat
Jun 17 19:49:59 <jasta> sounds to me like he's talking about apps running under the android framework
Jun 17 19:50:01 <ctate> weird if zygote's System.out goes to the log
Jun 17 19:50:13 <ctate> the log is structured
Jun 17 19:50:20 <jasta> zygote's system out does go to the log, it was introduced in 1.0 or 1.5, i cant rememebr which
Jun 17 19:50:25 <jasta> it shows the tag as "..."
Jun 17 19:50:26 <ctate> are you sure they aren't going to your emulator's stdout?
Jun 17 19:50:29 <jasta> or something like that
Jun 17 19:50:31 <ctate> huh, neat
Jun 17 19:51:32 <jasta> it is actually very useful to do this given that third party libraries would be more likely to log to System.out or System.err than to android.util.Log :)
Jun 17 19:51:43 <jasta> though of course most should probably be using log4j and i bet there's an adapter somewhere
Jun 17 19:54:19 <KNY> if the user has an active data connection (sending or receiving data) and a phone call comes in, under no circumstances will android just send the call to voicemail, right?
Jun 17 19:55:28 <diega> hi all, is there some method or helper to display the dialogs that shows up when you tap over an overlay in a MapView? exactly like the official maps app does, I need exactly that, even with the two buttons for moving between overlays (i.e. when you search a route)
Jun 17 19:56:33 <diega> because i'm making a similar approach using a PopupWindow, but I cannot get the two buttons outside it
Jun 17 19:57:32 <bnovc> jasta: i did mean in the framework
Jun 17 19:58:16 <jasta> KNY: GPRS and EDGE are incompatible with the voice signaling channels on GSM networks.
Jun 17 19:58:44 <jasta> KNY: the radio is implemented to interleave scanning between GPRS/EDGE transmissions to detect incoming voice calls and SMS.
Jun 17 19:59:00 <jasta> if GPRS/EDGE are indefinitely busy, this interleaving can fail and the voice signaling will not be received.
Jun 17 19:59:03 <KNY> jasta, so it could, in theory, ignore an incoming call?
Jun 17 19:59:13 <jasta> yup.  if the radio was too busy to interleave.
Jun 17 19:59:16 <KNY> well... shit. That's strange
Jun 17 19:59:23 <jasta> not really, they are using the same signaling channel
Jun 17 19:59:26 <jasta> this is why 3G is such an improvement
Jun 17 19:59:30 <jasta> one such reason
Jun 17 19:59:44 <KNY> no I mean it's not strange in the radio sense but strange in that it sucks that this can happen
Jun 17 20:00:09 <jasta> this is why GPRS/EDGE transmissions should be used sparingly, and should yield often to allow this interleaving to work
Jun 17 20:00:28 <KNY> jasta, alright, just tell your boss to go ahead and hook me up with 3G ;-)
Jun 17 20:00:30 <jasta> you've got a window of several seconds for this to work.
Jun 17 20:01:00 <jasta> that said, the call will not go straight to voicemail
Jun 17 20:01:06 <jasta> it will take several seconds to get there...
Jun 17 20:01:19 <KNY> jasta, but if my network transmission takes several seconds...
Jun 17 20:01:23 <jasta> the way the sweeping works will have to pause hoping the phone will start listening.  it is still registered to the base station
Jun 17 20:02:13 <KNY> jasta, is there something I should be doing in my code to yield every once in a while, if I'm expecting an incoming call?
Jun 17 20:02:15 <jasta> well just because your network request takes several seconds doesnt mean the radio cant yield
Jun 17 20:02:48 <KNY> jasta, well I have user(s) reporting this happening as a bug
Jun 17 20:03:03 <jasta> KNY: generally, no.  but if you have a large transmissions happening in either direction without interruption you should think about yielding on EDGE/GPRS
Jun 17 20:03:16 <jasta> transmission*
Jun 17 20:03:18 <KNY> jasta, how would I go about doing that?
Jun 17 20:03:29 <KNY> I assume it's more than just Thread.yield() ?
Jun 17 20:03:34 <jasta> the important part is that it has to be happening in just one direction without interruption.  there is an implicit yield otherwise.
Jun 17 20:03:44 <KNY> jasta, it would be
Jun 17 20:04:13 <jasta> ideally TCP would be configured on the device such that this would yield would occur automatically but im not sure if thats the case on android
Jun 17 20:04:42 <jasta> i havent done much experimenting with andorid in particular.  have you been able to duplicate this condition yourself?
Jun 17 20:05:05 <KNY> jasta, not for a while, but I imagine if someone was on GPRS then it would be a lot easier to dupe
Jun 17 20:05:22 <jasta> you can switch your phone onto GPRS.  here, i'll experiment for you right now
Jun 17 20:05:37 <KNY> thanks
Jun 17 20:07:15 <jasta> yup, it seems that android is not tuned to prevent this
Jun 17 20:07:20 <jasta> so you would need to implement the yield logic in your app
Jun 17 20:08:48 <jasta> the solution in Java could be tricky though
Jun 17 20:08:50 <KNY> jasta, how would I go about doing this?
Jun 17 20:08:51 <KNY> yeah
Jun 17 20:09:11 <jasta> because what you really want to do is to fill the recv buffer and then yield.
Jun 17 20:09:15 <KNY> (and should I report a bug about this or is it more on the radio firmware level?)
Jun 17 20:09:38 <jasta> well, it's hard to say if google or HTC would see this as a bug
Jun 17 20:09:55 <jasta> this is a design flaw known to exist in GPRS/EDGE
Jun 17 20:10:13 <jasta> and the general solution is essentially to hurt GPRS/EDGE throughput significantly
Jun 17 20:10:35 <KNY> right, but as you said, I feel that it should yield persistent network connections after, say, 30 seconds, so that incoming calls can't get ignored
Jun 17 20:10:53 <KNY> hey, maybe if they hurt EDGE, people will stop using it :)
Jun 17 20:10:59 <jasta> for instance, you'd want to tighten up the SO_RCVBUF size to something quite small and then yield for a length of time (say, a second) after it fills, ticked on by a timer running every 5 - 7 seconds
Jun 17 20:11:48 <jasta> a better question is why is your app downloading so much data its a likely event that calls will be missed?
Jun 17 20:11:52 <jasta> :)
Jun 17 20:12:13 <KNY> jasta, well, my app triggers a call via HTTP.. :)
Jun 17 20:12:24 <jasta> how often?  transmitting how much data?
Jun 17 20:12:26 <KNY> so it's more likely that this situation will crop up
Jun 17 20:12:53 <KNY> jasta, it's a Google Voice client, so it says "hey, I want to call this number." and Google Voice then calls you and them and connects you two
Jun 17 20:13:01 <jasta> oh, i see.
Jun 17 20:13:05 <jasta> yes that would be very problematic
Jun 17 20:13:05 <KNY> so while it's getting the response from the server, calls are getting ignored
Jun 17 20:13:18 <jasta> you do realize that a voice call is incompatible with GPRS/EDGE right?
Jun 17 20:13:24 <jasta> its as if your app cant work on those networks then.
Jun 17 20:13:49 <KNY> well, due to t-mobile's coverage, that seriously limits the functionality
Jun 17 20:13:57 <KNY> I would fall into that group too
Jun 17 20:13:58 <jasta> the radio yields to listen for voice signaling data, if received and a call is started, the GPRS/EDGE channel will be closed.
Jun 17 20:14:11 <jasta> meaning, your connection will abruptly end at that moment
Jun 17 20:14:31 <KNY> yes, but if it doesn't see the signaling data then we have a problem
Jun 17 20:14:47 <jasta> my point is that if you are "waiting for a response" when a call si received, you have a catch 22.
Jun 17 20:14:56 <jasta> you can't both accept the call and read the response over GPRS/EDGE
Jun 17 20:15:19 <KNY> I wouldn't care about the response if I got the call because then it clearly worked :)
Jun 17 20:15:56 <jasta> so can you explain this flow in detail?  you're issuing a request to the server to call you back, and the server is attempting to send some small "OK" type response?
Jun 17 20:16:12 <jasta> but the server decides to actually make a voice call before that "OK" message reaches you over EDGE?
Jun 17 20:16:17 <KNY> yes, there's a JSON response that I read
Jun 17 20:16:22 <jasta> is it large?
Jun 17 20:16:53 <KNY> I believe so, but I stop reading once I get the end of JSON (which, thankfully, is at the top of the message)
Jun 17 20:16:54 <sammyF> srm: don't know if you fixed it, but ddms and eclipse don't really work nicely together in my experience
Jun 17 20:17:12 <jasta> sammyF: ddms is embedded into the eclipse ADT plugin.
Jun 17 20:17:21 <jasta> it cannot be run stand-alone with the eclipse ADT plugin active
Jun 17 20:17:43 <jasta> KNY: so what is it sending back then if its large?
Jun 17 20:18:12 <jasta> it feels a bit like Google Voice's protocol is what is going to screw you :)
Jun 17 20:18:31 <KNY> jasta, tell me about it. This is a completely unsupported app :) I just fake the HTTP communications
Jun 17 20:18:36 <jasta> you would need the size of the response to be incredibly tiny to allow the radio firmwares yield to work
Jun 17 20:18:45 <sammyF> jasta: exactly. and at least trying to see logcat output inside eclipse crashed eclipse for me more often than not.
Jun 17 20:18:53 <jasta> otherwise you'd need to really choke up on the RCVBUF and sleep all the time
Jun 17 20:19:05 <jasta> sammyF: just uninstall the ADT, it's crap :)
Jun 17 20:19:28 <jasta> also, just use adb logcat
Jun 17 20:19:46 <KNY> yeah, just keep a terminal open
Jun 17 20:19:51 <jasta> KNY: i need to get back to work, and you've got a little bit of experimentation to do :)
Jun 17 20:19:56 <KNY> jasta, are you familiar with http client?
Jun 17 20:19:57 <KNY> okay
Jun 17 20:19:57 <sammyF> jasta, KNY: that's what I do actually ;)
Jun 17 20:20:01 <jasta> KNY: yes, i am
Jun 17 20:20:03 <KNY> thanks, jasta
Jun 17 20:20:14 <herriojr> the only issue I have with ADT is that logcat stops working in it and I have to restart it....it needs a button to reconnect it
Jun 17 20:20:16 <jasta> you can ping me tonight if you still have questions, i should be on around 8pm PST
Jun 17 20:20:22 <KNY> alright, thanks
Jun 17 20:27:11 <srm> great, first xml parsing with local file successful :)
Jun 17 20:28:13 <srm> currently, I've put the xml file into res/xml and I use "File("/data/data/de.leuphana.android.tests/res/xml/fsn.xml")" to open it. Is this considered good style or which way should I prefer?
Jun 17 20:31:26 <bnovc> i downloaded some example code that only comes with an AndroidManifest.xml and no build/Android.mk/etc. ... is there some expected way to build it still?
Jun 17 20:32:55 <KNY> sure, import it into eclipse :)
Jun 17 20:33:17 <KNY> srm, definitely don't do that
Jun 17 20:33:45 <KNY> srm, you should definitely not be hard-coding the path. put the XML into the assets/ folder and use getAssets()
Jun 17 20:34:44 <srm> KNY, ok, I'll have a look for that. thanks. But why not hardcoding? (in this case it's just for testing purpose)
Jun 17 20:35:04 <srm> *look at
Jun 17 20:35:18 <KNY> srm, because your app should make no assumptions about where it lives.
Jun 17 20:35:30 <KNY> you shouldn't assume /data/data/foo.bar.foo/
Jun 17 20:35:51 <srm> I see. would a relative path work? Going to use assets anyway, now.
Jun 17 20:36:26 <KNY> srm, no, there are methods to get the application's directory
Jun 17 20:36:50 <KNY> srm, along those lines, if you use the SD card, do not use "/sdcard", use Environment.getExternalStorageDirectory()
Jun 17 20:36:53 <srm> *puh* alright.
Jun 17 20:39:37 <srm> har, getAssets().open() returns an InputStream...need File :) ... well, way to go
Jun 17 20:39:56 <jasta> you can't get a File out of an asset because it isn't stored as a file.
Jun 17 20:40:10 <srm> please explain this.
Jun 17 20:40:10 <jasta> it's stored in a zip file (either your APK, or a res zip file)
Jun 17 20:40:20 <jasta> you can only read it out of that zip file.
Jun 17 20:40:21 <KNY> srm, they're just byte streams
Jun 17 20:40:35 <KNY> srm, just use a stream parser (which you should be doing anyway...) and you'll be fine
Jun 17 20:40:46 <srm> ok, thanks.
Jun 17 20:42:40 <KNY> protected void onPause() {super.onPause();} -- d'oh
Jun 17 20:45:34 <srm> 'aigh, using XMLReader now.
Jun 17 20:46:05 <bnovc> KNY: whats the non-eclipse answer?
Jun 17 20:46:37 <bnovc> doesnt help me much to learn that way
Jun 17 20:46:38 <KNY> bnovc, `android update project` ?
Jun 17 20:47:12 <herriojr> jasta: speaking of resource zip files, I'm assuming you're talking about app skinning?
Jun 17 20:47:18 <bnovc> thanks
Jun 17 20:47:35 <jasta> herriojr: huh?
Jun 17 20:47:36 <KNY> bnovc, though I don't see how eclipse has anything to do with not learning
Jun 17 20:47:51 <KNY> jasta, haha, that was my response too
Jun 17 20:48:16 <herriojr> jasta: well, one thing that I've wanted to do is allow people to make skinning my app a matter of dropping a file on the sdcard and pointing to that file
Jun 17 20:48:31 <jasta> good luck with htat :)
Jun 17 20:48:36 <bnovc> KNY: well, i'd like to know what eclipse is runnign behind the scenes
Jun 17 20:48:39 <bnovc> and i dnot really want to use eclipse anyway
Jun 17 20:48:46 <herriojr> but the only way I can figure out how to do this is just to make a blank android project with just a resource directory and use a sharedUserId w/ same signature
Jun 17 20:49:12 <herriojr> but that requires a signature, which I'm not thrilled about
Jun 17 20:49:14 <jasta> i cant help you with that.  it needs framework support to do properly
Jun 17 20:49:23 <herriojr> jasta: ok thanks
Jun 17 20:49:34 <jasta> i dont recommend you do it improperly :)
Jun 17 20:49:40 <jasta> but i am sure you dont are what i think
Jun 17 20:49:42 <jasta> care*
Jun 17 20:50:13 <herriojr> what do you mean by improperly, using sharedUserId/signature?
Jun 17 20:50:15 <KNY> I wonder if part of Apple's criteria for rejection is hard-coding paths and stuff
Jun 17 20:50:48 <jasta> herriojr: i mean without the style engine and without AssetManager.
Jun 17 20:50:58 <jasta> any other way of sharing resources is just gonna be a pathetic hack
Jun 17 20:51:33 <herriojr> jasta: yeah, that's why I was going to do it with SharedUserId/signature, you can just pull it out like you would if it were in your package
Jun 17 20:52:20 <herriojr> maybe at the next silicon valley android meetup I'll do a presentation on sharedUserId and all the fun things you can do with it :)
Jun 17 20:54:01 <jasta> herriojr: not quite...
Jun 17 20:54:11 <jasta> you cant use android's style engine.
Jun 17 20:54:16 <jasta> and that makes your solution a pathetic hack :)
Jun 17 20:55:14 <jasta> for instance, you have to code your application in such a way that every widget you use would need to respect assets given specific filenames
Jun 17 20:55:33 <jasta> rather than using the style engine that exists already in android
Jun 17 20:56:02 <herriojr> hmm
Jun 17 20:58:59 <herriojr> so, grabbing an activity from the other application and using its context to grab its own resources won't work as well?
Jun 17 20:59:43 <herriojr> I'm just curious, I need to research into it more (create a test project)
Jun 17 21:02:41 <herriojr> maybe I'm confused on what you mean by style engine
Jun 17 21:04:00 <herriojr> and I'm agreeing, I think what I'd be doing is a hack, but whatever method the system provides to accomplish a goal is the way to do it ;)
Jun 17 21:07:12 <herriojr> or I would need to change the system
Jun 17 21:11:54 <MrGone> hello, does anybody know what the best way to wait for a view to layout is before i can get a correct value for it's getHeight() method?
Jun 17 21:12:55 <frez> Hi! I'm having som trouble with the debugging of android apps. Is it possible to get a stack trache which points to the actuall error? For instance, if I have a null variable and this causes a nullpointerException, can I get a stacktrace that points to e.g line 50 in MyClass.java?
Jun 17 21:14:10 <frez> 'cause now I only get like ActivityThread.deliverResult line 3005 which points to android source
Jun 17 21:14:20 <KNY> frez, adb logcat
Jun 17 21:14:49 <frez> I've been trying to get that to work for some time now :O
Jun 17 21:14:53 <frez> So it is possible then
Jun 17 21:14:57 <MrGone> there are a few more options here http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/debug-tasks.html
Jun 17 21:15:16 <KNY> frez, what's not working for you?
Jun 17 21:15:19 <MrGone> frez, do you use eclipse?
Jun 17 21:15:26 <frez> yeah
Jun 17 21:15:57 <MrGone> you can get a logcat window
Jun 17 21:16:06 <frez> I have the logcat window open
Jun 17 21:16:16 <frez> but it doesn't show anyting useful
Jun 17 21:16:27 <frez> as far as I can see though
Jun 17 21:16:28 <MrGone> ah
Jun 17 21:16:30 <herriojr> MrGone: I don't for sure know about your question, but have you tried in onResume?
Jun 17 21:16:34 <KNY> the entire thing is useful :)
Jun 17 21:16:42 <KNY> frez, when there's an exception, you'll see it scroll past
Jun 17 21:16:52 <KNY> with complete stack trace
Jun 17 21:17:20 <frez> hmm let me check that out a bit closer
Jun 17 21:17:25 <MrGone> herriojr: onResume in the activity class -- isn't that more for when the activity has been suspended for some reason
Jun 17 21:17:58 <herriojr> MrGone: if that doesn't work, I would probably say override the layout holding that view
Jun 17 21:18:17 <herriojr> MrGone: when an activity starts, it goes through onCreate, onStart, onResume in that order
Jun 17 21:18:29 <herriojr> but I can't remember if things are rendered before or after onResume
Jun 17 21:19:35 <herriojr> MrGone: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html#ActivityLifecycle
Jun 17 21:20:05 <herriojr> actually, I don't think onResume will work
Jun 17 21:20:24 <herriojr> you probably need to extend your layout holding the object in question
Jun 17 21:20:36 <herriojr> *view in question
Jun 17 21:20:40 <MrGone> herriojr: ah that's helpful thanks, i see it is possible to override the layout i'm just not sure what i would do. The trouble is that i want to wait for it to be laid out, if i add a method to rertrieve the height value, overriding onLayout won't help because i still have to wait for it to reach there
Jun 17 21:21:01 <herriojr> create a listener
Jun 17 21:21:09 <frez> Can't see no stacktrace in logcat, weird
Jun 17 21:21:16 <herriojr> and when onLayout gets run, then call your listener
Jun 17 21:21:40 <MrGone> ahhhhh, of course, is there not already one built in, it seems kind of an obvious thing ...
Jun 17 21:21:53 <herriojr> MrGone: I don't know if this is the correct way to do it, as I've not had to do it before ;)
Jun 17 21:23:15 <frez> there it was
Jun 17 21:23:17 <MrGone> hehe okay, i notice that there is an View.OnFocusChangeListener interface but the reference is very unhelpful as to what it does or how to use it
Jun 17 21:23:34 <frez> close enough.. THanks guys
Jun 17 21:23:46 <romainguy__> MrGone: it tells you when the focus state changes?
Jun 17 21:23:47 <herriojr> MrGone: look into ViewTreeObserver and see if that helps
Jun 17 21:24:17 <romainguy__> anyway, yes ViewTreeObserver is the right solution
Jun 17 21:24:30 <romainguy__> you can also create a custom view and override it's onSizeChanged() method
Jun 17 21:24:30 <herriojr> ViewTreeObserver.OnGlobalLayoutListener
Jun 17 21:25:02 <MrGone> romainguy_ heh, that actually helped
Jun 17 21:26:42 <MrGone> romainguy__ thanks i'll take a look, how would onSizeChanged() help externally i still have to wait don't i, wouldn't this be the same as creating a new getHeight() method
Jun 17 21:26:57 <MrGone> herriojr: thanks
Jun 17 21:27:42 <romainguy__> MrGone: just use a callback
Jun 17 21:28:16 <MrGone> romainguy__ sorry i don't know how to implement one of those
Jun 17 21:29:07 <MrGone> romainguy__ ah found something thanks
Jun 17 21:31:02 <meanburrito920_> I have an xml stream with multiple root nodes. DocumentBuilder.parse barfs on it because it only wants one root node. how can i fix this?
Jun 17 21:31:26 <meanburrito920_> I cant change the xml file, either. other things depend on the current format
Jun 17 21:31:36 <herriojr> add a parent to all those nodes
Jun 17 21:31:57 <herriojr> it's a matter that xml expects a single root node
Jun 17 21:32:12 <romainguy__> meanburrito920_: XML forces you to have only one root
Jun 17 21:32:34 <meanburrito920_> romainguy__ : yes, but I need to get around that
Jun 17 21:32:42 <romainguy__> yeah but you can't, it's not valid XML
Jun 17 21:32:50 <romainguy__> so don't expect the XML parser to accept it
Jun 17 21:32:54 <herriojr> meanburrito: can you somehow put a fake node around it?
Jun 17 21:33:03 <romainguy__> what herriojr said
Jun 17 21:33:11 <herriojr> on the client side
Jun 17 21:33:14 <romainguy__> (and yell at whoever created that format in the first place :)
Jun 17 21:33:26 <meanburrito920_> I'm looking up how to do that and I cant find any documentation on it
Jun 17 21:33:41 <herriojr> what's the object you're reading the xml from, a stream?
Jun 17 21:34:03 <herriojr> maybe you can make a stream wrapper to just add a node around it
Jun 17 21:35:50 <herriojr> public class FakeInputStream extends InputStream {...}, then in the read method, add the fake node to the beginning and the close at the end
Jun 17 21:36:31 <meanburrito920_> or just write my own parser...
Jun 17 21:36:31 <herriojr> that's how I'd try to do it
Jun 17 21:36:41 <herriojr> extending the stream should be easier
Jun 17 21:37:01 <herriojr> but it's up to you
Jun 17 21:37:10 <KNY> write your own parser? I hope you call it NIHParser
Jun 17 21:37:22 <herriojr> NIH=?
Jun 17 21:37:30 <romainguy__> Not Invented Here
Jun 17 21:37:31 <KNY> not invented here (so let's re-invent!)
Jun 17 21:39:22 <herriojr> ah ok
Jun 17 21:47:14 <herriojr> oh btw, the picture chooser only supports selecting one photo at a time, are there plans on allowing multi-picture selection support, or can I just go add it myself?
Jun 17 21:47:26 <herriojr> as in add it into Donut
Jun 17 21:49:24 <romainguy___> herriojr: it's too late to add this to Donut
Jun 17 21:49:43 <KNY> romainguy___, really? so soon?
Jun 17 21:49:56 <KNY> are you guys already starting work on eclair?
Jun 17 21:49:59 <romainguy___> no
Jun 17 21:50:12 <romainguy___> but you stop adding features before you release :p
Jun 17 21:50:19 <romainguy___> to give time to stabilize, optimize and fix bugs :)
Jun 17 21:50:23 <herriojr> oh, so release is coming much earlier I hope :)
Jun 17 21:50:38 <KNY> romainguy___, yeah, understandable, but it still seems pretty early to do a feature freeze
Jun 17 21:50:48 <herriojr> have you guys put your changes into public yet?
Jun 17 21:50:49 <KNY> but then again, I'm not the one with a million-plus users
Jun 17 21:50:54 <romainguy___> KNY: exactly :)
Jun 17 21:51:37 <KNY> romainguy___, when did the feature freeze happen (purely out of curiosity)?
Jun 17 21:54:19 <KNY> you can't inspect the vm heap using ddms on production devices?
Jun 17 21:54:34 <romainguy___> you need a debuggable device
Jun 17 21:54:44 <romainguy___> adb shell getprop ro.debuggable must return 1
Jun 17 21:55:06 <KNY> romainguy___, is there a way to set that on my (rooted, ADP build) G1?
Jun 17 21:55:22 <romainguy___> a stock ADP should be debuggable=1 already
Jun 17 21:55:35 <romainguy___> anyway, there's a file somewhere you can change
Jun 17 21:55:39 <romainguy___> I don't remember where exactly
Jun 17 21:55:43 <romainguy___> look in /system
Jun 17 21:55:55 <KNY> romainguy___, a stock ADP build? but thanks, I'll poke around and see what I can break
Jun 17 21:56:34 <KNY> /system/build.prop seems like it's what I want
Jun 17 21:57:22 <romainguy___> if you want hierarchyviewer to work you'll need ro.secure=0
Jun 17 21:57:29 <KNY> neat
Jun 17 21:57:30 <romainguy___> (although I fixed that in donut, now only debuggable=1 is required)
Jun 17 21:57:30 <herriojr> romainguy: so when can I check out eclair and make modifications?
Jun 17 21:57:37 <romainguy___> herriojr: now?
Jun 17 21:57:41 <romainguy___> it's the master branch
Jun 17 21:57:55 <herriojr> ok cool, I thought you guys were still keeping farther ahead stuff private
Jun 17 21:58:07 <romainguy___> we haven't dropped our internal tree in a while
Jun 17 21:58:11 <romainguy___> so not everything's out there
Jun 17 21:59:09 <herriojr> All the frozen code is in the public repository now, right?
Jun 17 21:59:24 <romainguy___> no
Jun 17 21:59:30 <herriojr> ok
Jun 17 22:01:06 <KNY> hey romainguy___ I've got a question about Camera stuff that I'd rather not ask in here since it's related to my ADC2 app; who should I ask if they'd be willing to answer a few questions for me?
Jun 17 22:02:19 <romainguy___> ask on the google groups :)
Jun 17 22:03:08 <KNY> romainguy___, ask the meta-question (asking who to ask)?
Jun 17 22:03:20 <KNY> because I'd rather ask here than there :)
Jun 17 22:03:31 <KNY> (if it had to be a public forum)
Jun 17 22:26:22 <jasta> romainguy_: you there?  i'd like to pick your brain if you have a second
Jun 18 00:01:18 <ObsidianX> is there a way to determine where a user is with city/county/state information?
Jun 18 00:01:31 <ObsidianX> possibly as narrow as "they are in a park" (green sections on the map)
Jun 18 00:17:44 <b0nn> ObsidianX: use the location prodiers?
Jun 18 00:17:52 <b0nn> eg. GPS or Network Information
Jun 18 00:29:45 <ObsidianX> b0nn: does the GPS provide information like that? or does it just provide coordinate locations
Jun 18 00:31:28 <b0nn> coordinate locations
Jun 18 00:31:41 <b0nn> which you can then maerry to something like google maps
Jun 18 00:34:15 <ObsidianX> the Geocoder class only gives me the closes address to the given coordinates
Jun 18 00:34:24 <ObsidianX> and i need more information than the closes house to my location
Jun 18 00:34:36 <ObsidianX> closest*
Jun 18 00:43:37 <ObsidianX> it would appear i need to choose another geocoder backend, but im not finding any information on how to change or write my own backend
Jun 18 00:52:23 <jasta> hmm
Jun 18 01:07:00 <ObsidianX> this is rather annoying :\
Jun 18 01:07:18 <KNY> yo, jasta
Jun 18 01:07:35 <jasta> sup?
Jun 18 01:08:47 <KNY> oh damn, 8PM PST, not EST :)
Jun 18 01:09:59 <KNY> is it possible to tell (in code) if the app is running using a debug cert or not?
Jun 18 01:10:26 <jasta> yeah i might not be around tonight afterall :)
Jun 18 01:10:40 <KNY> jasta, haha, no worries
Jun 18 01:15:59 <ObsidianX> KNY: if you can access the signer information at all in code, you'll look for the key name "androiddebugkey"
Jun 18 01:16:46 <KNY> ObsidianX, interesting. I was just toying around with the idea of having some additional debug information automatically enabled when I'm developing (but not have to worry about shipping it)
Jun 18 01:17:18 <ObsidianX> that's a cool idea =)
Jun 18 01:18:13 <ObsidianX> you might have to just read your own apk file in /data/app
Jun 18 01:18:32 <ObsidianX> im not sure, but you might have aceess to that since its the same application
Jun 18 01:19:02 <KNY> ah
Jun 18 01:19:12 <KNY> I'll have to play around with it
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