**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 21 02:59:58 2012 Jun 21 03:00:22 is SimonVT there by any chance ? Jun 21 03:00:25 indeed whoever programmed vampires forgot to add code ;) Jun 21 03:00:32 When a vampire stands infront of a mirror, the mirror is expecting a value of true to do the reflection, but since drawReflection returns void, it segfaults the mirror Jun 21 03:00:44 lol Jun 21 03:02:16 Jug6ernaut: Was the original reflection comment aimed at me? Is that what started this regrettable, regrettable dalliance into inheritance? Jun 21 03:02:37 yes lol Jun 21 03:04:01 You should of been at my office this morning, I freaked people out when I started a conversation of how someArray[someIndex] is == to someIndex[someArray], where someArray is some array, and someIndex is an index, either an immediate or a variable, in C Jun 21 03:04:01 yeppers lol Jun 21 03:04:11 hmmmm I ran MAT and it says problem suspect 1 (suspect of memory leak that is) - 2,625 instances of "java.lang.Class", loaded by "" occupy 1,315,424 (24.57%) bytes. Jun 21 03:04:29 anyone know what its implying Jun 21 03:04:38 gaz`: did you see the i/o presentation on memory stuff ? Jun 21 03:04:47 it might be 2010 or 2011, don't remember Jun 21 03:04:52 nope Jun 21 03:04:55 ill check that out Jun 21 03:04:57 mat == eclipse tool? Jun 21 03:05:01 yes XXCoder Jun 21 03:05:08 its hard to understand what the tool is saying, i admit Jun 21 03:05:11 it looks super duper useful if u can figure out what its saying Jun 21 03:05:12 built in or addon? Jun 21 03:05:19 addon Jun 21 03:05:30 cool will try it out later. Jun 21 03:06:09 Jug6ernaut: So were you able to load a class with URLClassLoader? I think DexClassLoader requires a jar and I'd like to avoid that. Jun 21 03:17:50 Actually, now that I brought it up, I went in and applied for a full Nook developer account Jun 21 03:24:15 hmm so anyone a pro with MAT? some of the things its mentioning ar ejust objects i create inside a method so i figured they would be cleaned up after a while? Jun 21 03:24:35 do i just null them explicitly? Jun 21 03:24:37 hmm Jun 21 03:27:25 were the i/o videos live last year ? Jun 21 03:27:55 think so Jun 21 03:32:24 yeah pretty sure i watched i/o live Jun 21 03:39:31 hmm it says the leak suspect report shows what objects are being kept alive and why, but i cant find eithert Jun 21 03:40:12 Anyone willing to look at my code and tell me when my app will suddenly not open? Jun 21 03:40:56 Cloudy: not open? does it fc when you open it? Jun 21 03:41:09 yes, closes "unexpectedly" Jun 21 03:41:19 Cloudy: open ddms and get us the stack trace Jun 21 03:42:46 cant make head nro tail of MAT Jun 21 03:43:21 gaz`: where can I grab MAT? I can look at it and see if I Can figure it out.. Jun 21 03:45:19 http://android-developers.blogspot.tw/2011/03/memory-analysis-for-android.html Jun 21 03:46:59 grabin it now Jun 21 03:50:53 are you supposed to setContentView to null or something when u leave an activity? seems like lots of my memory is in the linearlayout etc i loaded Jun 21 03:51:30 no Jun 21 03:52:19 gaz`: dude I am looking at this.. the stuff it says I am leaking.. theres no way its from my app.. it looks like its from my Android system as a whole Jun 21 03:52:51 im interested what it says for you Jun 21 03:53:09 drpenguin: http://pastebin.com/dtu071fG Is this what you needed? Jun 21 03:53:30 gaz`: overall it says my system has 4 leaks Jun 21 03:54:22 one from some apache package, over 2000 instances of java.lang.class, 157 instances from org.bouncycastle.jce.provider.blahblah.. and over 6k isntances from java.lang.string Jun 21 03:54:41 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4194619/mat1.jpg Jun 21 03:54:44 thats my leak suspect Jun 21 03:54:55 Cloudy: NPE com.AtlasOnEarth.FiniVR.FiniVoiceActivity.(FiniVoiceActivity.java:37) Jun 21 03:55:05 but i dont understand what it means really Jun 21 03:55:53 ok.. are you using those classes..? Because I dont think MAT just examines the heap for an app.. but for the entire android system Jun 21 03:56:03 im using the networking one Jun 21 03:56:14 it contains lots of static vectors which is why it might think its messed up Jun 21 03:56:40 if you click that bar chart you can get more info Jun 21 03:56:48 and supposedly u order by shallow heap Jun 21 03:57:03 then right click one and select list objects with incoming references Jun 21 03:57:16 but the details in here are crazy its got hundreds and hundreds of textviews listed etc Jun 21 03:57:26 anyone know of speech to text I can unclude in my apps and not need internet connection Jun 21 03:57:34 sure ron_frown Jun 21 03:57:39 if they downloaded packs already Jun 21 03:57:44 what Jun 21 03:57:49 are you thinking text to speech Jun 21 03:57:54 I need speec recognition Jun 21 03:57:55 yes Jun 21 03:57:56 sorry Jun 21 03:57:56 gaz`: this tool looks weird Jun 21 03:57:59 has anyone found a way to record from both front and back camera at the same time? Jun 21 03:58:39 yeh i dont understand almost anything about it, but today i want to work it out Jun 21 03:58:49 as im clearly doingsomething wrong wheni make apps Jun 21 03:58:57 the mem just goes up and up Jun 21 03:59:01 So.. i am looking at the system now.. you can sort his by package Jun 21 03:59:11 so you probably just care about whats happening inside your package? Jun 21 03:59:20 yes wheres that option Jun 21 03:59:52 in the histogram perspective, theres a group by button, looks like 3 boxes Jun 21 04:00:16 ah yes! Jun 21 04:00:26 gaz one long lived activity? Jun 21 04:00:39 dont knowreally Jun 21 04:01:08 I finally got to the bottom of my memory usage/ crashing problems in android os Jun 21 04:01:18 yes ron_frown what was it Jun 21 04:01:26 as u asked me that i found that its says i have 237 activities Jun 21 04:01:27 SurfaceFlinger bugs Jun 21 04:01:40 graphic intensive stuff would inevitably crash Jun 21 04:01:52 the devices I buitl the os for basically sit running 24hr a day 7day a week Jun 21 04:02:11 and it'd crash within a few days Jun 21 04:02:21 heh Jun 21 04:02:22 so it looks like instances of my activites are being kept Jun 21 04:02:25 somehow Jun 21 04:02:38 Isnt that expected by default? Jun 21 04:02:40 gaz`: on all platforms, or old ones ? Jun 21 04:02:58 dunno i just see like 15 mainmenuactivities in this list Jun 21 04:03:01 bugs were fixed in later gingerbread os Jun 21 04:03:05 over the years, there have been weird leaks with things like ImageView Jun 21 04:03:07 my app targets 2.2 Jun 21 04:03:07 but I am definitely thinking about swapping out binders Jun 21 04:03:15 bitmap images have to be recycled Jun 21 04:03:20 otherwise it'll leack Jun 21 04:03:21 leak Jun 21 04:03:41 gaz`: so how can one transition to that activity for example? Jun 21 04:03:45 you can leak activitys / views in improperly handled dialogs and stuff Jun 21 04:03:49 yes i have lots of bitmaps downloaded, i coulddetect low memory then recycle all of them i guess, theres a method that gets called when ur low on mem but forget its name Jun 21 04:04:00 no no you HAVE to recycle them period Jun 21 04:04:13 what even if i need them again? Jun 21 04:04:25 http://android-developers.blogspot.tw/2011/03/memory-analysis-for-android.html Jun 21 04:04:42 that example they have there demonstrates exaclty what the problem is Jun 21 04:04:44 this is what im using right now Jun 21 04:04:53 they use bitmap leakage to show how to use their new profiling shit Jun 21 04:04:56 haha Jun 21 04:05:44 not really Jun 21 04:05:55 theyre just saying its a leak as the cache has no limit Jun 21 04:06:00 nothing to do with bitmap recycling is it Jun 21 04:07:40 this is now im going to a new activity every time startActivity(new Intent(context, InteractTabHostActivity.class)); Jun 21 04:07:44 is that gonna be an issue? Jun 21 04:08:02 why would it be Jun 21 04:08:08 no idea, im beyond confused Jun 21 04:08:22 i cant seem to get anyone that knows how to handle the memory issues in android Jun 21 04:08:30 or even explain it, and when they do it makes no sense Jun 21 04:08:42 and still not able to see why my apps run out of mem after playingfor 30 mins Jun 21 04:08:46 whats the problem Jun 21 04:08:52 what does your app do Jun 21 04:08:54 if i keep usingthe app it crashes Jun 21 04:08:56 with out of memory Jun 21 04:09:13 gaz`: if i recall, the ImageView leaked the activity by not clearing some callback Jun 21 04:09:18 its information about a live event, horse race, who is running, odds, etc, news, photos, colours, it downloads afair few images too Jun 21 04:09:29 and do you primarily have FragmentActivity with a ton of views Jun 21 04:09:44 theres no use of fragments in this Jun 21 04:09:47 could be images Jun 21 04:09:50 how do you download Jun 21 04:10:01 lazily load them as somone scrolls through a list? Jun 21 04:10:11 no Jun 21 04:10:14 only in one instance Jun 21 04:10:18 most are downloaded properly Jun 21 04:10:24 gaz`: also, read this http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=8488 Jun 21 04:10:29 ahead of time? Jun 21 04:10:32 yes ron Jun 21 04:10:34 thanks g0 Jun 21 04:10:41 oh yeah dude Jun 21 04:10:50 did you see what pops out in logcat Jun 21 04:11:23 yeh ive read this g00s this is where everyone gets angry at romain, read it many times Jun 21 04:11:46 its an out of memory exception usually on inflating a view specicially decoding images Jun 21 04:12:35 ive literally tried nearly everything on that list Jun 21 04:12:37 over the past 6 months Jun 21 04:12:40 I download lots of images and do LOTS of drawing Jun 21 04:12:48 never had any *ANY* out of memory exceptions Jun 21 04:12:48 so i think its something fundamental im doing wrong, i had hoped mat would show me Jun 21 04:12:56 ron_frown: but on 2.2 ? Jun 21 04:13:00 there were specific issues Jun 21 04:13:10 2.2 was fucked in plenty fo ways Jun 21 04:13:13 i dont need to target 2.2 really just wanted to support more devices Jun 21 04:13:17 but g00s remember that crazy ass app I showed you? Jun 21 04:13:19 my device itself runs 2.3.6 Jun 21 04:13:21 that runs on 2.2 Jun 21 04:14:28 if im reading this right then i have multiple copies of activities in memory Jun 21 04:14:37 which seems wrong, multiple copies of the same activity i mean Jun 21 04:14:59 you may have activities in memory, but I dont think that means MULTIPLE copies Jun 21 04:15:52 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4194619/mat2.jpg Jun 21 04:15:53 see that Jun 21 04:16:31 uhh Jun 21 04:16:32 looks liek 12 mainmenuactivities Jun 21 04:16:43 are you firing up new activities with any intent flags? Jun 21 04:17:04 no but when i move from one to another i always use : startActivity(new Intent(context, InteractTabHostActivity.class)); Jun 21 04:17:16 apart from when androiddoes it for me, like pressing back key Jun 21 04:17:50 gaz are you saying interacttabhostactivity.class everytime or you mean thats HOW you spawn new classes Jun 21 04:18:03 er new activities Jun 21 04:18:08 i mean i use that .class name each time Jun 21 04:18:21 even if ive been there before Jun 21 04:18:27 thats normal Jun 21 04:18:32 oh ok Jun 21 04:18:36 android should pause/destroy on its own Jun 21 04:18:38 thought it was somehow making more instances Jun 21 04:19:11 if u have a static variable in there it wont destroy it right Jun 21 04:19:36 a few have statics but not many Jun 21 04:19:37 what do you have static variable for Jun 21 04:19:54 just so i can access it at times Jun 21 04:20:08 heres the problem references from a different class to a static field on your activity MAY, MAY affect garbage colelction reference counts Jun 21 04:20:43 then again, I dont use static vars, cept in the case where I want to treat them as constants Jun 21 04:20:46 hmm i just realised i have private static finals in every class with the tag on Jun 21 04:20:56 they dont need to be static at all Jun 21 04:21:05 but form j2me days i usuallymake finals static to speed em up Jun 21 04:21:18 you mean for strings? Jun 21 04:21:22 those will be inlined Jun 21 04:21:23 i wonder if that could do it, yes JakeWharton Jun 21 04:21:35 so not a worry or? Jun 21 04:21:38 no Jun 21 04:21:47 thats what google engineers do Jun 21 04:22:04 public final static String TAG = "OHFUCK" Jun 21 04:22:16 yeh thatsexactly it Jun 21 04:22:26 thats exactly* Jun 21 04:22:27 thats not gonna do it Jun 21 04:22:49 you could easily slap some Logging in your onPause, onDestroy Jun 21 04:22:57 and see if the activities ever get destroyed Jun 21 04:22:57 what sort of logging Jun 21 04:23:02 ah yeh Jun 21 04:23:10 Log.i(TAG,"OnDestroy") Jun 21 04:23:43 im pretty sure they do get destroyed Jun 21 04:23:45 just checking tho Jun 21 04:23:59 knowing how aggressive androids activity manager is, I'd be seriously surprised if its keeping em around Jun 21 04:24:18 I'd try and prevent individual image loads... temporarily use same image for every item in a list Jun 21 04:24:42 see if memory usage is any beter Jun 21 04:27:24 hmm Jun 21 04:27:32 i dont see ondestroy being called! Jun 21 04:27:36 on my mainMenu Jun 21 04:27:55 its not guarenteed to happen right away Jun 21 04:28:25 I was playing around with that android_page_curl thing - you provide bitmaps to it. It actually recycles them itself Jun 21 04:28:47 (your provider has to decode from drawables/wahtever when it asks, it can't be a bitmap cache for example) Jun 21 04:28:58 at first I thought it was just being rude Jun 21 04:29:11 hmm i wonder if its just this device/os.. Jun 21 04:30:04 what device Jun 21 04:30:24 dude I am telling you ts bitmap stuff Jun 21 04:30:43 hmm Jun 21 04:30:52 so ishould wipe the bit mapswhen their not on screen basically Jun 21 04:31:03 wipe the bitmaps when theyre not on screen Jun 21 04:31:09 recycle and null? Jun 21 04:31:13 then grab them back when needed Jun 21 04:32:07 I'd find cases where google does it in its code, and go with how they do it Jun 21 04:32:53 if it's a lot of bitmaps, I'd definitely go with that gaz` (recycle after use) Jun 21 04:33:06 yeh but if i get rid of them entirely itll still happen Jun 21 04:33:14 and i need them, so the problem is elsewhere Jun 21 04:33:21 it happens in my last app that doesnt even grab bitmaps Jun 21 04:33:28 maybe it is your devie Jun 21 04:33:30 i use lots of bitmaps in the UI of course Jun 21 04:33:32 custom rom? Jun 21 04:33:48 no just normal stuff on nexus 1 Jun 21 04:34:38 this MAT tool is prob great butthere should be a simple way to show whats going on Jun 21 04:35:23 you are leaking someting Jun 21 04:35:32 yes Jun 21 04:35:34 android logcats when it leaks a view knowingly Jun 21 04:35:42 are you using managed dialogs? Jun 21 04:35:50 managed? Jun 21 04:35:54 oh god. Jun 21 04:35:59 do you use dialogs at all? Jun 21 04:36:03 yes many times Jun 21 04:36:06 many many Jun 21 04:36:18 do you use them via onCreateDialog() or do you just instantiate and .show() Jun 21 04:36:33 in 2 caces i did the oncreatedialog thing, the rest are instantiated and shown Jun 21 04:36:36 cases Jun 21 04:37:03 instantiation and showing can leak a dialog, but USUALLY in the case of screen rotation Jun 21 04:37:12 yeh thisapp cant rotate at all Jun 21 04:37:15 (can be just "configuration change" Jun 21 04:37:56 yeh none of that happens Jun 21 04:38:06 altho this tool does list progressdialogs Jun 21 04:38:17 but also scrollviews, linearlayouts the works Jun 21 04:38:19 theoretically network requests *CAN* leak depending on how you make the calls (and if the callbacks dont exist when the network reqeusts complete) Jun 21 04:38:25 and then bitmaps Jun 21 04:39:47 i been trying to work this out for the last yr basically Jun 21 04:39:52 those are the 3 places that I see leaking quite a bit Jun 21 04:40:05 i try the tricks i find in eahc new app i do hopign that one day it wont happen, but by the end of dev thats always the only bug leeft Jun 21 04:40:40 I wish that png would have come up Jun 21 04:40:59 that I have RUNNING on custom hardware running 2.3.5, it loads images and all sorts of shit Jun 21 04:41:06 solid for a long time Jun 21 04:41:10 no its not 2.2 Jun 21 04:42:01 maybe i should try and get out of memory on my tablet Jun 21 04:42:02 to test Jun 21 04:42:07 never seen that yet Jun 21 04:42:18 even if it doesnt occur, hats a LOT Of new variable Jun 21 04:44:45 hmm its almost as if its keeping all of the stuff from the xml in memory Jun 21 04:44:55 even when im not on that page Jun 21 04:45:18 load it up in the emulator, use it that way Jun 21 04:45:24 see if you can get THAT to crash with similar version Jun 21 04:45:27 ah yes Jun 21 04:45:29 it MAY be your device Jun 21 04:45:36 not THAT likely but possible Jun 21 04:45:38 i remember i did managed to last time when i finishe dmy last app died i nthe same way Jun 21 04:45:48 then you are doing something wrong Jun 21 04:45:50 i was recording a video of the emulator and it died with out of memory Jun 21 04:46:02 what does logcat say Jun 21 04:46:13 logcat should show memory usage and that its recycling Jun 21 04:46:23 freed so much of so much memory Jun 21 04:46:34 yeh by the end of the mem it starts gc-ing lots of times then dies and its always an out of mem decoding a bitmap Jun 21 04:46:43 there you have it Jun 21 04:46:47 bitmap problems =) Jun 21 04:46:52 yeh Jun 21 04:46:55 well i need these bitmaps Jun 21 04:47:00 unless i make a b&w GUI Jun 21 04:47:01 :) Jun 21 04:47:34 can you share a screenshot of the image? Jun 21 04:47:39 i think its just that bitmaps usually push it over the edge Jun 21 04:47:47 what image Jun 21 04:47:48 you sure you got the appropriate sizing of your gui bitmaps etc Jun 21 04:47:57 just snap a pic of your app running Jun 21 04:48:01 pm it to me Jun 21 04:48:01 they can be any size surely Jun 21 04:48:04 k Jun 21 04:58:10 man. i forgot how to make virtual functions that must be overridden Jun 21 04:58:18 I made abstract class Jun 21 04:58:45 public abstract Boolean IsEnabled(); Jun 21 04:58:51 aha thanks Jun 21 04:59:12 isEnabled Jun 21 05:00:18 yeah works. I can now swap functions as nesscary Jun 21 05:00:47 I wonder though, can I just have function pointer Jun 21 05:00:56 or reference Jun 21 05:01:40 nope Jun 21 05:01:49 or well via reflection sort of Jun 21 05:02:31 well I think making abastract class is fine. that or use large logic on selecting what function to use. Jun 21 05:02:54 I rather use abstract. all versions use same function call Jun 21 05:09:06 The method add(PackageInfo) in the type List is not applicable for the arguments (String) <-- why not? Jun 21 05:09:44 String != PackageInfo Jun 21 05:10:27 right Jun 21 05:10:32 that makes sense Jun 21 05:11:24 can anyone point me to a good tutorial to revet from ICS back to gingerbread on a GSII on T-mo? Jun 21 05:13:01 wrenny: #android-root Jun 21 05:15:34 k Jun 21 05:16:24 well Im not sure why it keep saying I need to rename this Jun 21 05:16:36 public enum pushTughjkghjkhjgghjghghjypes { Jun 21 05:16:36 REGULAR, INVERSE, STRANGE; } Jun 21 05:17:06 no way in hell that theres some other variable with same name. Jun 21 05:20:13 hey Jun 21 05:20:29 Why isn't R.id.webView defined if I have this in my layout xml? https://gist.github.com/ef8d84cae238e59dc9ec Jun 21 05:20:35 is anyone here familiar with compiling and decompiling apk's? Jun 21 05:21:06 weird Jun 21 05:21:09 The public type pushTypes must be defined in its own file Jun 21 05:21:15 its an enum Jun 21 05:21:23 When does 'onAttach' get called on a fragment in relation to the FragmentTransaction used to create it? Before the return of 'commit'? Jun 21 05:21:31 so do i just make new class and define the enum or what? Jun 21 05:22:59 ah so eclipse does have "add enum" Jun 21 05:23:09 how can i provide initial data from a loader (from cache) and then notify when new data is available (from HTTP) Jun 21 05:23:14 deliverData() doesn't seem to be working as i thought Jun 21 05:23:44 weird had to delete the R file Jun 21 05:29:20 Can anyone help me, I can decompile framework-res.apk fine, but when i try to recompile it, i get a page full of errors... I'm using apktool and cmd Jun 21 05:35:08 How easy is it to develop with JMonkey SDK? Jun 21 05:40:41 anyone know hwo to get around not being able to reuse a recycled bitmap Jun 21 05:41:16 and if its in a listview in a row how do you "clear" that, i tried calling m_adapter.clear() in ondestory but it doesnt seem to do it Jun 21 05:47:05 its so quiet; everybody is in anticipation of i/o :) Jun 21 05:47:44 free android device gathering Jun 21 05:47:50 and i guess theres some talks as well Jun 21 05:48:12 hopefully there will be some good announcement too. we already know about market comments Jun 21 05:48:25 will be interesting to see JB Jun 21 05:48:27 yeah like moderated market Jun 21 05:48:28 g00s: nah, everyone has moved over to #windows8-dev Jun 21 05:48:30 if I was attending I'd be lookng forward to new some shiny new hardware Jun 21 05:48:43 Leeds: propthetic, i'm sure Jun 21 05:48:47 *propetic Jun 21 05:48:53 g00s - they are already having a hard time keeping their win7 customers Jun 21 05:49:01 there were some unboxing photos of a new Acer tablet which they apparently asked (nicely) to be kept back until the 25th Jun 21 05:49:02 up in arms abotu the no update to win8rt Jun 21 05:49:20 ron_frown: ms really screwed up when they said they would not update existing devices - even the lumia 900 Jun 21 05:49:31 i mean, the fucking lumia 900! poor nokia Jun 21 05:49:32 to be fair they couldnt really do it easily Jun 21 05:49:41 honestly, the surface tablet is pretty cool (as long as i can run linux in a vm :D). the first tablet to allow you to work on it like a tablet and like a computer. Jun 21 05:49:53 win7 is based on wince, win8 is a complete rewrite, sharing common gorund with win8 desktop Jun 21 05:49:55 pboos: yeah, i'm really excited about that. Jun 21 05:49:57 i somehow hope android will go more into the way shown by ubuntu Jun 21 05:50:04 ron_frown: you mean wp7 is based on wince Jun 21 05:50:12 yes Jun 21 05:50:21 all the windows now use the same NT kernel Jun 21 05:50:25 well, will Jun 21 05:50:28 pboos: you mean the first apart from the transformer? Jun 21 05:50:38 or the atrix? Jun 21 05:50:38 win8 actually does look nice. like the metro style.. but as long as i do not have a nice shell, sorry.. Jun 21 05:50:55 ron_frown: i'm interesting to see how they handle graphics scaling Jun 21 05:50:56 Leeds: first what? Jun 21 05:51:04 first tabletcomputer Jun 21 05:51:16 g00s I am sure its just silverlight/wpf Jun 21 05:51:25 hmm, dunno Jun 21 05:51:35 wp8 will not have .net compact Jun 21 05:51:36 Leeds: not sure what exactly your question is, sorry :) Jun 21 05:51:47 metro is, wm7 is silverlight Jun 21 05:51:55 its full on .net from what i understand. ms has really gone out of there way to minimize the differences between platforms Jun 21 05:52:07 pboos: you said the surface is the first tablet to let you work as a computer and as a tablet... I said it's the first other than the transformer and sort of the atrix Jun 21 05:52:20 I'm a .net/c# guy, but no where near the fanboism of the g00ster Jun 21 05:52:41 ron_frown: i have not owned a MS technology in 13 years Jun 21 05:52:55 but i'm really excited about this Jun 21 05:53:01 i want to run lightroom on a tablet Jun 21 05:53:08 Leeds: well, the thing about the transformer is. it is still android. and android apps just are not desktop apps... or most are not Jun 21 05:53:11 and canon's dslr control apps Jun 21 05:53:14 and yet you're all but creaming yourself over something that failed during the demo and hasnt REALLY been more than a mention Jun 21 05:53:18 no REAL handson Jun 21 05:53:25 no real spec sheets Jun 21 05:53:29 no prices Jun 21 05:53:33 Is there a way to bypass the FragmentManager.add? I'm trying to add a non-ui fragment, but onAttach is not getting called before returning from 'commit' as I would have expected. Jun 21 05:53:33 ron_frown: its a gut feeling, for sure Jun 21 05:53:40 which method gets called when the app is low on memory? onTrimMemory ? Jun 21 05:53:41 pboos: that's why I mentioned the atrix Jun 21 05:53:54 Leeds: like where is my loved sublime text 2? or eclipse? or shell (ok.. terminal emulator. but i am very limited there.. can i do git? no..)? Jun 21 05:54:29 Leeds: never looked at the atrix.. will check it :) Jun 21 05:54:49 you do know you won't be able to do any of that stuff on the ARM surface, just on the x86 one? means you'll be looking at something like US$1000 including a keyboard, likely Jun 21 05:54:57 Leeds: yes, indeed Jun 21 05:55:12 and the un-metro stuff will even bee lame at first Jun 21 05:55:15 I think ms had the right idea about tech and compositing and ui composition with wpf Jun 21 05:55:37 I think that silverlight sadly highlighted shit that wasnt important and that wpf SHOULD have replaced crappy ass html in a perfect world Jun 21 05:55:42 as for the surface Jun 21 05:55:43 boo Jun 21 05:56:05 everyone says the home screen is sexy, I say it looks like shit Jun 21 05:56:13 cluttered and dated Jun 21 05:56:18 ms bypassed all their oems to do the Surface; i guess some feel "betrayed". but ms cares about windows because it is their baby; and they can't trust any other company to get the job done. Jun 21 05:56:47 i get the impression that apple and ms care more about their platforms than google does about android Jun 21 05:56:56 surface just seems like another ms product, late to market, and lackluster in features Jun 21 05:56:57 just an impression Jun 21 05:57:18 I'd like to see ms pull it off Jun 21 05:57:28 but the reality is, its never going to trump android Jun 21 05:57:33 ron_frown: its amazing if they do with monkey boy at the helm Jun 21 05:57:47 android has a virtually free ecosystem for oems and end user develpoment Jun 21 05:57:50 loaders are amazing Jun 21 05:57:57 finally got my hands really, really dirty with them today Jun 21 05:58:03 you know ms is going to license and ream oems Jun 21 05:58:29 ron_frown: i disagree there; we'll compare notes in 2015. i would not be surprised, if by that time, android is on low end feature phones only, not on tablets at all, samsung went their own way with their own OS, and its ms / apple duopoly again. of course, i could be full of shit :) Jun 21 05:58:51 what are you talking about man? Jun 21 05:58:51 i think already, its clear android is toast on the tablet Jun 21 05:59:14 or android and chrome merged into something Jun 21 05:59:28 Leeds: i would only take the one, where i can run a vm on it or get the tools i could use on my desktop/notebook Jun 21 05:59:31 shit if it wasnt for ms throwing tons of money at nokia *AND* nokia desperately not wanting to admit defeat and go to android Jun 21 05:59:45 I guarentee nokia wouldnt even use it Jun 21 05:59:52 ron_frown: yes, they have failed up to this point, we get it. Jun 21 05:59:54 pboos: then you are nowhere near a normal consumer, and nobody is going to make a device for you Jun 21 05:59:58 no my point is Jun 21 06:00:01 android is "free" Jun 21 06:00:13 oems will choose free any day over ms licensed os Jun 21 06:00:19 that has a shit ecosystem Jun 21 06:00:25 incidentally, do we agree that MS has obviously paid Zynga for their games, as we know they've paid other devs in the past? Jun 21 06:00:35 well, MS does have a problem there. they are charging $85 per copy of win 8 RT Jun 21 06:00:35 def Jun 21 06:00:51 so if they come out with their own arm hardware, uh, oems will probably not be happy Jun 21 06:01:03 thats the only way I see it working Jun 21 06:01:08 Leeds: too bad :( Jun 21 06:01:16 if ms starts building their own hardware and it only comes with win8rt Jun 21 06:01:37 and it'd have to be SERIOUSLY impressive and impressively priced to even have a CHANCE at competition Jun 21 06:02:05 they have made plenty of mistakes :) Jun 21 06:02:22 also incidentally, the ARM tablet comes with office, the more expensive Pro x86 one... doesn't, apparently Jun 21 06:02:52 hardware appeared to be decent for what they demoed Jun 21 06:02:55 DECENT Jun 21 06:03:05 even wp8 has all the enterprise management, portal, private store, encryption, etc that IT shops will love Jun 21 06:03:09 but if they tried to even charge remotely as much as people pay for ipad Jun 21 06:03:13 never going to have a chance Jun 21 06:03:32 yeah, apple could drop a bomb by selling low cost 7" tablets or whatever Jun 21 06:03:39 heh Jun 21 06:03:39 and selling them for like $300 Jun 21 06:03:47 nah $400 Jun 21 06:03:49 but - i still see the iPad as a toy Jun 21 06:03:52 thats low cost to em Jun 21 06:04:02 you can have an iPad + MBA or a Surface for 1/2 price Jun 21 06:04:04 see I think thats where you expect win8rt to be much more than it is Jun 21 06:04:18 I dont think its just going to run anything that runs on desktop, infact I believe they've said that much Jun 21 06:04:54 ron_frown: we know its not going to run legacy apps. its metro only Jun 21 06:04:55 infact from what I've seen, they basically implied the c++ interop stuff was portable Jun 21 06:04:56 BUT Jun 21 06:05:08 only the c++ interop shit Jun 21 06:05:16 which is better than nothing Jun 21 06:05:18 but not great =) Jun 21 06:06:01 I still think a 7" tablet is a better device for a *lot* of people/purposes Jun 21 06:06:03 lol I knew I saved old buggy graphics function for a good reason Jun 21 06:06:19 result looks like someone used acid Jun 21 06:06:56 my mom isnt a power user by any means Jun 21 06:07:11 but other then heavy photo refinishing, she does everything else on her android tablet Jun 21 06:07:17 she loves it Jun 21 06:07:51 in anycase g00s I'm willing to be open minded when we actually see some win8rt hardware/software Jun 21 06:08:03 but the wm7 I think looks like complete and utter shit, I hate metro Jun 21 06:08:17 and dont think as it sits, it stands even a remote chance Jun 21 06:08:20 sad too Jun 21 06:08:27 nokia lumia is supposed to be great hardware Jun 21 06:08:39 nokia should have stuck with meego, that was actually a fantastic platform Jun 21 06:10:30 ron_frown: yeah, it will be interesting. i thing what ms did right : they made a beautiful reference impl to showcase their baby sans any involvement with carriers Jun 21 06:10:52 hardware tho Jun 21 06:11:00 I cant stress how displeased metro makes me Jun 21 06:11:04 i have heard a lot of people are struggling with metro Jun 21 06:11:12 like , windows 1.0 users can't figure it out Jun 21 06:11:22 I dont think its even the metro guidelines Jun 21 06:11:25 i used windows 2.1 :) Jun 21 06:11:26 its just the phone ui Jun 21 06:11:44 big ass blocky elementary color launch screen... view titles hanging off the fucking screen etc Jun 21 06:11:47 cant stand that shit Jun 21 06:11:59 that is the opposite design school as Apple Jun 21 06:12:04 Swiss design Jun 21 06:12:15 minimalism, i really like it. Jun 21 06:12:22 typography, space, basic shapes Jun 21 06:12:25 I think you've made that apparent Jun 21 06:12:29 shit any dev can do :) Jun 21 06:13:46 just to confirm... neither wp (7 or 8), nor iOS, allow you to make explicit empty space on their launcher? (nor change the launcher, of course) Jun 21 06:14:41 ok, so the interesting thing is that when my app is getting those SQLite errors I was talking about before, there also appear to be failures to create the folder for shared_prefs, so to me, it sounds like the partition has just completely borked Jun 21 06:16:06 Leeds: i dunno. i've never tried messing with even my android or ipod home screens Jun 21 06:16:36 not out of box Jun 21 06:16:42 i used to configure the hell out of everything when i was a heavy linux user , i just gave up on that and use the defaults for everything now Jun 21 06:16:49 they made it SOUND like that may be possible with win8rt Jun 21 06:17:32 I find searching for shit in non alphabetical order, but auto arranged icons ala iphone a total pita Jun 21 06:17:55 g00s: youre fine if you avoid bad defaults Jun 21 06:18:14 ron_frown: Leeds : the upside to this , is that if MS pisses off enough oems --- maybe they will invest more in linux ? Jun 21 06:18:22 hmm maybe Jun 21 06:18:39 I dont think thats a big deal as it Jun 21 06:18:42 i think the intense competition from MS now, is good for everybody in the end Jun 21 06:18:47 driver support seems to actually be pretty damn good Jun 21 06:18:58 I just want to see x11 gone Jun 21 06:19:04 ron_frown: you heard linus' rant against nvidia right :) Jun 21 06:19:07 then I'll switch to linux box for my daily driver Jun 21 06:19:21 linus is an arrogant fuck... not saying its not justified Jun 21 06:19:24 Tablets was always where Microsoft would make their mark Jun 21 06:19:29 Smartphones are another story Jun 21 06:19:39 Ologn they tried tablets at least twice before =) Jun 21 06:19:41 x11? thats base of windowing system Jun 21 06:19:50 do you mean gnome or kde or whatever? Jun 21 06:19:59 I used to work for a company that manufactured hardware used xp tablet edition Jun 21 06:20:06 no Jun 21 06:20:10 those are... "ok" Jun 21 06:20:11 g00s: Linux is doing just fine - there'll be 400 million phones/tablets shipped this year running Linux, at least Jun 21 06:20:23 the underlying windowing system is what sucks complete shit in linux Jun 21 06:20:27 Microsoft software won't magically port over to the touchpad either Jun 21 06:20:50 oh Jun 21 06:20:58 ron_frown: well can always write your own Jun 21 06:21:05 ron_frown: there are persistent rumours of Steam support for Linux... Jun 21 06:21:06 wayland/weston are well underway Jun 21 06:21:13 Leeds wouldnt surprise me Jun 21 06:21:28 unity3d recently announced that their 4.0 package supports linux Jun 21 06:21:43 I've been porting apps to Android. You have to deal with all kinds of things. The keyboard for one. I guess the MS tablet comes with a keyboard. But then that makes it different than iPad and most Android tablets. Jun 21 06:21:46 g00s: eh? Jun 21 06:21:48 I really think thats gonna be huge for 2012 Jun 21 06:21:51 2013 Jun 21 06:22:01 readme: eh ! Jun 21 06:22:07 g00s: I'm gonna pm you eh Jun 21 06:22:10 incidentally, y'all see that Larry Ellison bought himself a volcanic island to site his new evil overlord lair? Jun 21 06:22:29 ellison is the oracle tool? Jun 21 06:22:32 or someone else Jun 21 06:22:40 yeah, the oracle guy Jun 21 06:22:48 I have to use oracle daily, and I fucking hate it Jun 21 06:23:02 they don't like white folks in Hawai'i much Jun 21 06:23:02 had WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more problems with oracle than I ever did with ANY version of sql server Jun 21 06:23:26 in 1yr I've experienced more problems with oracle than I had with sql server in 10+yr Jun 21 06:23:39 http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/fall/prejudice-in-paradise Jun 21 06:24:51 Most native Hawaiians I've met don't like Americans Jun 21 06:25:02 honestly just toss em off in the ocean Jun 21 06:25:32 sounds way way way way un-pc, but we americans took that shit over and decided it was going to be american state Jun 21 06:25:47 you got a problem with white americans being there Jun 21 06:25:47 they are kinda pissed about a bunch of things :) Jun 21 06:25:50 get bent Jun 21 06:25:51 That's what they said Jun 21 06:26:04 Ologn tell them to try and succeed Jun 21 06:26:12 my tongue hurts Jun 21 06:26:18 Anybody successfully user URLClassLoader? Jun 21 06:26:24 successfully *use* Jun 21 06:26:29 same thing I see a ton here Jun 21 06:26:41 hmm, i just updated my android SDK to the newest version and suddenly i get problems when my using org.apache.commons.collections.primitives.ArrayIntList Jun 21 06:26:54 we invade mexican territory, basically eff them over and more or less steal their land... then they bitch about america... Jun 21 06:27:22 is android now suddenly including that library by itself? Jun 21 06:27:24 What have the Romans ever done for us? Jun 21 06:27:25 got nothing against hispanics or any other nationality, but the way I figure it, this is america now, and if you dont like it, get. Jun 21 06:29:12 ah, it looks like this is some change in r17 : Jun 21 06:29:13 :( Jun 21 06:30:03 wonder when adt 20 is gonna hit Jun 21 06:30:22 what is it now? 2? 3? months of betas? Jun 21 06:31:30 ron_frown: during i/o of course Jun 21 06:31:35 they have to have stuff to announce Jun 21 06:31:57 0h well Jun 21 06:32:01 time for sleep Jun 21 06:32:38 it was tagged already Jun 21 06:43:02 ohai everyone Jun 21 06:47:50 Could someone guide me what API I should use to get location of the device (accessing GPS services).. Jun 21 06:48:30 google map api ? Jun 21 06:48:47 AIR Jun 21 06:49:06 gmap Jun 21 06:49:36 LocationManager ? Jun 21 06:57:40 Ivru is correct Jun 21 06:57:47 as always... Jun 21 06:57:57 You will learn it the hard way Jun 21 06:58:00 noun should not be giving advice Jun 21 06:58:50 it seems like every time I try and populate a list with installed package names my app crashes. Is it just too much for it? Jun 21 06:59:20 you're doing it wrong Jun 21 06:59:49 stack trace or gtfo Jun 21 07:00:06 have someone experience with ESC/POS commands pls help me. pls Jun 21 07:01:17 i send command with code like this, but printer makes nothing:mBTStream = mBTSocket.getOutputStream(); Jun 21 07:01:17 mBTStream.write(cCommand.getBytes()); Jun 21 07:01:17 mBTStream.close(); Jun 21 07:02:28 ESC/POS commands ? Jun 21 07:02:43 yes. sending POS printer commands Jun 21 07:06:25 uh, oracle is going forward to appeal Jun 21 07:06:37 i bet they are hoping they don't get a judge that knows how to program Jun 21 07:08:34 then there'd be even less chance ;) Jun 21 07:09:38 i have a question regarding listviews Jun 21 07:09:59 ask and you might be answered Jun 21 07:10:08 i make a bluetooth socket connect, than connection close. if i make later an another connet, it fail...till ein disable and enable bluetooth again. someone have any idea why? Jun 21 07:10:10 i have an asynctask that in its onProgressUpdate iterates through the visible children of the listview and changes a ImageView's imageBitmap Jun 21 07:10:25 the interesinting effect i see is that this causes the listview to flicker Jun 21 07:10:38 Rintano: did you look at the bt chat example ? Jun 21 07:10:43 we tried a multitude of combinations of cacheColorhints background colors, etc.. Jun 21 07:11:18 it seems to be the case that setting the bitmap invalidates the child view.. which causes the listview to redraw this child Jun 21 07:11:34 and at that point the cacheColorhint gets involved.. Jun 21 07:11:42 i'll hack up a little testcase Jun 21 07:11:47 g00s: bt chat example? Jun 21 07:11:54 this is only a problem on some devices... Jun 21 07:12:21 it seems to be depending on the aggressiveness of the optimization strategy of the implementation of the listview depending on the android versin Jun 21 07:12:25 imo, better to update the data your adapter uses and call notifydatachanged or whatever Jun 21 07:12:37 yeah... Jun 21 07:12:54 problem: our listview has thousands of entries.. Jun 21 07:13:07 and we only want to set the bitmaps in the visible views.. Jun 21 07:13:28 only call the update if the entry updated is visible? :) Jun 21 07:13:30 i haven't found out a way to determine when a position gets invisible again.. Jun 21 07:13:49 well if the user scrolls through the whole list then all the bitmaps will end up in memory if we store it in the adapter.. Jun 21 07:14:26 it would be cool to be notified when a oposition goes out of sight.. Jun 21 07:16:07 ok, before was a wrong info. it works not after disabling and enabling the bluetooth, but i need to unpair and pair the printer again Jun 21 07:17:53 ANYONE KNOW WHAT MEMORY CLASS MODERN PHONES LIKE HTC ONE X ARe? Jun 21 07:18:07 whoops :) Jun 21 07:20:01 yeaaah ! http://phandroid.com/2012/06/21/the-iduck-stand-can-transform-your-galaxy-s3-or-any-glossy-android-device-into-howard-the-duck/ Jun 21 07:20:03 i presume new devices are 48? Jun 21 07:20:28 man, you've been working on this memory issue for like 6 mos Jun 21 07:20:34 or more ? Jun 21 07:20:37 more Jun 21 07:20:39 over a year Jun 21 07:20:48 still not found a solution! Jun 21 07:20:48 do you have an ios version yet ? Jun 21 07:20:57 ios version of what Jun 21 07:21:05 your zombie game Jun 21 07:21:16 i basically think that theres some memory problem on my android device Jun 21 07:21:18 no Jun 21 07:21:23 not been able to work on it ;/ Jun 21 07:21:33 been earning money making android apps... Jun 21 07:21:42 there you go :) Jun 21 07:21:54 hehe Jun 21 07:21:59 well im waiting for my damn money Jun 21 07:22:04 as usual they pay so late Jun 21 07:22:59 im just waiting to findthe solution Jun 21 07:23:12 i must have read for weeks n weeks on googl and had a thousand discussions in here Jun 21 07:23:26 even when i recycle bitmaps null them and use ddms to GC, no mem comes back Jun 21 07:32:49 if i go in and out of 2 activities constantly, the allocated memory just keeps rising Jun 21 07:33:24 stop leaking! Jun 21 07:33:47 oh actually that was a special case Jun 21 07:33:53 yeh theres leaks all over so invivile u cant see em Jun 21 07:34:23 invisible Jun 21 07:34:50 dont really understand why this chan isnt full of ppl compalining about just that Jun 21 07:37:47 tapas, I had this stupid hack... http://756199cc35ad8412.paste.se/ :p Jun 21 07:39:03 gaz`: does it happen on GB ? on ICS ? Jun 21 07:39:41 to put it bluntly, if it happens on ICS, i'm betting you are doing something wrong Jun 21 07:39:52 if it does NOT, fuck it, forget froyo, and move up to what works Jun 21 07:40:06 oops, i meant the exact opposite Jun 21 07:40:22 mo, wait, i did mean it like that Jun 21 07:40:24 gah Jun 21 07:41:05 by the time you get this done, froyo might not even register :) Jun 21 07:42:01 gaz`: S3 is 64MB Jun 21 07:42:01 gaz`: sounds like me youre not closing activities as you switch between em Jun 21 07:42:50 and you sure all references to memory you wanna gc to clean up is gone? Jun 21 07:43:14 if theres 2 refs and one is set to null, one is left over Jun 21 07:43:29 so it will not be cleaned up by gc since theres one ref left. Jun 21 07:44:40 XXCoder: its a long standing issue gaz` has been having with bitmaps Jun 21 07:44:52 on the froyo days, there were issues with large bitmaps Jun 21 07:45:18 hm I see Jun 21 07:45:26 it's kind of sad that 19% is still froyo :E Jun 21 07:45:30 what happens with em? Jun 21 07:46:08 anyone know how to keep wifi adb running through usb plug / unplug ? Jun 21 07:46:53 mine dies, every time, and i'm trying to debug a usb connected app Jun 21 07:47:27 XXCoder ImageView used to leak a reference to its context *if i remember correctly* Jun 21 07:47:41 there is more too it than that, i'm sure Jun 21 07:48:05 hmm Jun 21 07:48:21 I wonder if youre missing some other reference to bitmap Jun 21 07:48:58 suppose a, b , c is all Bitmap, and A has data. B = A; C = A; A = null; Jun 21 07:49:06 B = null; Jun 21 07:49:24 c would still contain Bitmap data so gc won't collect it. Jun 21 07:50:45 I know you probably are vastly more experenced than me but everyone misses something sometimes. Jun 21 07:51:25 what's the logic on google's side behind this: http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/google-to-pay-0-in-damages-to-oracle ? Jun 21 07:52:17 zero is better than lots cash pay Jun 21 07:52:40 this is fucking awesome :) http://blog.safecast.org/ Jun 21 07:53:07 question: are you people getting tons of e-mails too recently about people asking you to place ads in you apps/website? Jun 21 07:53:19 nope Jun 21 07:53:44 getting like 1-2 every day now. while until a week ago i got none. Jun 21 07:53:58 nope, my apps arent awesome enough. Jun 21 07:54:06 mine aren't either Jun 21 07:54:19 mine aren't either... Jun 21 07:54:32 XXCoder: it looks like they were going to get nothing anyway Jun 21 07:55:31 pboos: whats your largest base app? Jun 21 07:55:38 *amount of installations Jun 21 08:34:58 hello h00s ! Jun 21 08:35:36 XXCoder: sorry for the late answer. it is 400'000 Jun 21 08:37:37 An OpenGL app I wrote for 2.1 produces a black screen on my friend's upgraded (2.3.3) LG Optimus One phone. You thoughts would be most welcome. Jun 21 08:38:08 make a program that produces a green screen for some variation Jun 21 08:38:19 lol Jun 21 08:38:52 no lol - but still funny Jun 21 09:08:56 Hi! I'm taking pictures on a galaxy tab 10.1 using MediaRecorder. All pictures are of the size 1024x768, but the cam of the tab should do 2048x1536. How to change the capture resolution? Jun 21 09:18:38 sgs3 got really good reviews from the verge Jun 21 09:22:55 Is view.getLayoutParams().width = newWidth; AND view.requestLayout(); is the best way to change a view width inside an animation? Jun 21 09:35:28 hi Jun 21 09:37:43 why activity which is run from broadcast receiver (android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED) shows after launcher ? Jun 21 09:39:53 g00s: it sucks Jun 21 09:40:10 nah, the verge doesn't suck Jun 21 09:40:29 sgs3 does Jun 21 09:40:35 i must be blind.. HighscoreViewTag viewTag = (null == convertView.getTag()) ? ((HighscoreViewTag) convertView.getTag()) : (new HighscoreViewTag()); Jun 21 09:40:38 the verge is ok Jun 21 09:40:44 how can viewTag be null after this.. Jun 21 09:40:53 or do i miss something about operator new in java? Jun 21 09:41:02 aaah Jun 21 09:41:04 i'm stupid.. Jun 21 09:41:07 sorry for the noise :D Jun 21 09:41:10 :D Jun 21 09:41:15 i was just about to say Jun 21 09:41:26 hmm Jun 21 09:41:39 yikes Jun 21 09:41:43 that is some hard-to-read code Jun 21 09:41:56 tapas: why do you write (null == something) and not (something == null)? Jun 21 09:41:57 :D Jun 21 09:42:09 so i never make this mistake: Jun 21 09:42:16 if (something = null) { ... } Jun 21 09:42:23 oh Jun 21 09:42:26 clever Jun 21 09:42:29 if (null = something) { ... } gives a compiler error Jun 21 09:42:49 smart IDE will flag the former Jun 21 09:42:52 it's just more readable to me if it's more like "natural language" Jun 21 09:43:08 JakeWharton: it;s just a habit that i use in every programming language that allows this mistake Jun 21 09:43:09 but you won't always use a smart ide Jun 21 09:43:11 so it's a habit Jun 21 09:43:14 also: Jun 21 09:43:16 tapas: You're saying if (convertView.getTag() == null) { viewTag = convertView.getTag() } Jun 21 09:43:23 SimonVT: he got it Jun 21 09:43:23 So ofc it's null ;d Jun 21 09:43:29 the value to test against is clearly visivble at the start of the expression Jun 21 09:43:32 it's not always a mistake Jun 21 09:43:43 if you test true or false against a complex expression you get something like: Jun 21 09:43:51 if (yadayadaya wfjwe lg;hjer g;ejg ;iejh ;ehjt s;hj rw; jrl;h jrw;lhjwr ljrwhtwlrhjrw htwrhjtrw == null) Jun 21 09:44:11 it's better readable if it's at the line start to me personally.. Jun 21 09:44:13 habit.. Jun 21 09:44:16 but that's the more important part! Jun 21 09:44:20 i think you're wrong Jun 21 09:44:27 :D Jun 21 09:44:31 hehe Jun 21 09:44:38 while ((line = stream.readLine() != null) { /* do things */ } Jun 21 09:44:41 yuizy: Yeah, it was kinda obvious, so I didn't bother reading on ;d Jun 21 09:44:48 :) Jun 21 09:44:55 plus a paren Jun 21 09:45:16 JakeWharton: can you briefly mention the git branching structure / merge policy used on the square app ? Jun 21 09:45:39 i also always explicitly test against true and false.. Jun 21 09:45:54 rather than writing if (exp) i write if (true == exp) Jun 21 09:45:58 makes it more explicit Jun 21 09:46:04 and i avoid if (!exp) Jun 21 09:46:09 rather if (false == exp) Jun 21 09:46:09 i'm more interested in how git is used for an android app in general; i'm sure you guys have something schnazzy Jun 21 09:46:17 master is always green, everything is on a branch with pulls to master Jun 21 09:46:19 you're weird Jun 21 09:46:33 green means deployed ? Jun 21 09:46:41 no Jun 21 09:47:08 tapas: optimization Jun 21 09:48:33 Ivru: hmmm? Jun 21 09:49:05 another rule of mine: Jun 21 09:49:27 readability always trumps optimization unless profiling indicated that optimization is nessecary Jun 21 09:49:37 i write software for, what, almost 20 years.. Jun 21 09:51:15 i also ALWAYS use braces on the branches of conditionals.. never if (foo) exp; always if (foo) { exp... } Jun 21 09:51:38 you always have to keep in mind that you're not the only one reading your code.. Jun 21 09:51:50 beginners will hack at it, etc.. they will make mistakes you would never make.. Jun 21 09:52:08 check style and find bugs solves everything you are attempting to justify Jun 21 09:52:11 and i don't have to think about it Jun 21 09:52:14 ever Jun 21 09:52:23 If it's a single expression in an if, I mostly don't bother with braces Jun 21 09:56:44 time to head home methinks Jun 21 09:56:51 well, people use different editors, etc.. Jun 21 09:57:01 my habits don't hurt anyone, improve readability and avoid bugs.. Jun 21 09:57:07 so one doesn't have to fix them.. Jun 21 09:57:15 but this is a kind of religious debate :D Jun 21 09:57:19 same with check style and find bugs Jun 21 09:57:19 fail Jun 21 09:57:23 fails the build if you fuck up Jun 21 10:19:48 is it just me or is android 4.0.4 pretty buggy to start with? Jun 21 10:20:28 isn't every version of android buggy? seriously. Jun 21 10:20:30 :) Jun 21 10:20:53 dunno. I thought they are getting less buggy with time ;) Jun 21 10:21:15 well, HC was supposedly aweful Jun 21 10:21:44 i think many of the bugs in harmony were worked out Jun 21 10:21:59 but … the apps themselves, and the framework - a different story Jun 21 10:35:22 gonna start back on learning ios next week :-x Jun 21 10:36:04 SimonVT: are you there by any chance ? Jun 21 10:36:55 gaz`: its going to be pretty hard to be discovered on ios; hope you have good marketing savvy Jun 21 10:37:16 g00s: not your problem if you're doing contract work Jun 21 10:38:02 yes Jun 21 10:38:26 SimonVT: cool, quick q. i'm pretty sure, from the looks of it, the iosched app uses abs Jun 21 10:38:35 it does Jun 21 10:38:41 iosched 2012 that is. now , i use Froyo Jun 21 10:39:00 and i notice icons i the options menus are messed up - i mean, like white on white basically Jun 21 10:39:17 technically, #ffffff @ 80% opacity on off-white Jun 21 10:39:48 so, i guess there are 2 themes typically with actionbar: light and dark Jun 21 10:39:51 yeh this iOS thing is just a very simple job ive aquired, they want android and ios versions Jun 21 10:40:06 i guess in this theme, the icons are white. Jun 21 10:40:19 but, the options menu panel is like #eeeeee Jun 21 10:40:26 im sick of hiring iOS developers who prance around thinking theyre gods Jun 21 10:40:28 somehow this just seems awesome Jun 21 10:40:29 WARN/ActivityManager(246): Scheduling restart of crashed service com.sonyericsson.crashmonitor/.CrashMonitorService in 5000ms Jun 21 10:40:37 is there any way to fix this ? i don't think you can change the color of the options menu panel Jun 21 10:40:49 this isn't an issue on GB because its options menu panel is black i think Jun 21 10:41:17 I have no idea :F Jun 21 10:41:23 gaz`: oh, i thought this was for you zombie game Jun 21 10:41:29 Just one of the joys of supporting obsolete platforms Jun 21 10:41:35 :X Jun 21 10:41:39 g00s no im gonan need to be way better at iOS for that Jun 21 10:43:14 SimonVT: ok, thx for your time. Jun 21 10:43:47 gaz`: honestly: maybe do the zombie thing in xna or something Jun 21 10:43:59 hmm, what is the usual pattern for loading images into a listview? Jun 21 10:44:21 lazily, usually :) Jun 21 10:44:21 e.g. we have to do a webrequest per visible item.. Jun 21 10:44:26 yeah, that's whay we do.. Jun 21 10:44:49 g00s: just give them 10 years or so when their pet platform is obsolete Jun 21 10:44:57 (same for android, sadly) Jun 21 10:45:07 i don't give android until 2015 Jun 21 10:45:23 we start an asynctask per view that gets visible and hasn't got its image yet.. once that finishes we transfer that to the adaptr and call notifydatasetchanged Jun 21 10:45:46 tapas: there are a few projects out there on github which you can reuse Jun 21 10:45:49 this causes many many notifydatasetchanged to be issued.. Jun 21 10:45:52 if you're trying to do cross platform games, maybe try Moai (if you don't mind lua) Jun 21 10:45:59 oh sorry, I meant gaz` Jun 21 10:46:25 g00s: android isn't going away in the next couple of years, I'm pretty sure Jun 21 10:46:37 well, i would not be surprised Jun 21 10:46:42 (either way) Jun 21 10:47:00 there is only one thing i am looking for in i/o announcement this year: that google is going to start taking things more seriously Jun 21 10:47:04 it's a profile pic per view that gets displayed.. Jun 21 10:47:36 g00s: in which sense? Jun 21 10:47:46 tapas, did you see my hack? Jun 21 10:47:59 version fragmentation mostly. you know, that 18 mo update agreement kinda stuff that never happened. Jun 21 10:48:29 tapas: Depending on your data, you can also load all the pictures in a single task at startup Jun 21 10:48:38 g00s: yeah, although that's due to android's open nature Jun 21 10:48:50 MDijkstra: yeah Jun 21 10:48:51 g00s: which is also one of its strengths Jun 21 10:48:57 they could enforce manufacturers a bit more Jun 21 10:49:03 i'm not so sure its a strength any more Jun 21 10:49:13 maybe in the beginning to spread the platform Jun 21 10:49:27 g00s: that's the problem, they don't own the market share Jun 21 10:49:37 the old versions should be given only that much time to live after a new version is released Jun 21 10:49:43 g00s: ie, if they start trying to exert too much control over android Jun 21 10:49:49 g00s: samsung might jump ship Jun 21 10:50:01 SimonVT: nope.. since we expect around 10000 users this would take up ca. 30 MB of ram Jun 21 10:50:17 MDijkstra: yes, samsung has been discussed a few times in that regard Jun 21 10:50:17 SimonVT: so we have to do it on demand.... Jun 21 10:50:28 tapas: Alright Jun 21 10:50:41 Well, you don't need to do notifydatasetchanged for every image loaded Jun 21 10:50:41 g00s: imo the problems of version fragmentation will largely dissapear as the updates become less significant as the platform matures Jun 21 10:50:42 Zharf: nope, didn't see your hack :D Jun 21 10:51:03 tapas, did you see it now? Jun 21 10:51:13 tapas: Save the position of the view (easy when using viewholder), and then modify the view directly if it's in the same position Jun 21 10:51:17 g00s: the only reason it's such a big problem now is because ICS is so different and so much better than GB Jun 21 10:51:36 If it's not, well you just do nothing. Cache it Jun 21 10:52:00 SimonVT: you mean, getting the view from the list of children of the listview? Jun 21 10:52:05 g00s: I doubt they'll decide to throw out the actionbar in JB+1 Jun 21 10:52:09 SimonVT: that leads to flickering on some android versions.. Jun 21 10:52:16 as they over aggressivley optimize Jun 21 10:52:38 i.e. the cachehintcolor shines through even if everything has solid backgrounds.. Jun 21 10:52:53 so i have to do it via the adapter.. Jun 21 10:53:00 Huh, what? Jun 21 10:53:09 Have yet to experience that Jun 21 10:53:52 yeah, it's totally weird :D Jun 21 10:53:59 10:37 < Zharf> tapas, I had this stupid hack... http://756199cc35ad8412.paste.se/ :p Jun 21 10:54:03 I pass the view as well as the position to the task that loads the image, then once loading is done just check position, and set the loaded bitmap directly on the view Jun 21 10:54:06 No flickering :s Jun 21 10:54:33 I believe that's how the majority does it as well Jun 21 10:55:11 MDijkstra: the subjective feeling i am getting, which i hope to be proven wrong soon, is that neither google or the oems are that dedicated to android. i mean, compared to what i see with apple and ms; now that ms has basically started designing hardware in redmond Jun 21 10:55:25 yeah, that's how we did it, too.. works great.. but not on samsung galaxy pad Jun 21 10:55:34 Zharf: ok Jun 21 10:56:02 tapas, I then only notifydatachanged when the position of the changed data is around those limits Jun 21 10:56:07 +-10 or so Jun 21 10:56:23 it works for me :) Jun 21 10:56:42 also, romain's shelves app has a nice lazy loading technique Jun 21 10:56:48 g00s: well, they do have some lock-in in the sense that it's really expensive for them to port all of their crapw^Wmodifications to another platform Jun 21 10:56:55 i stop lazy loading on a fling Jun 21 10:57:17 MDijkstra: interesting insight Jun 21 10:57:33 g00s: but samsung has been hedging their bets since day one Jun 21 10:57:49 with WP7, Android and previously Bada Jun 21 10:57:56 which they've now turned into a featurephone platform Jun 21 10:57:57 i guess i could also group updates.. Jun 21 10:58:16 e.g. wait for ca. 100ms and if another update come through group it together until a limit is reachefd Jun 21 10:58:39 tapas: samsung galaxy tab? Yeah, there's more than one issue with that device :p Jun 21 10:59:46 MDijkstra: i thought some of the court docs in the oracle case mentioned, that basically google doesn't even really make that much money from android. its important, but not critical for them Jun 21 11:00:18 again, i would not be surprised if eventually, its just open sourced totally and given to the oems Jun 21 11:00:20 g00s: I guess it's critical in the sense that it prevents microsoft from doing stuff like integrating bing everywhere Jun 21 11:00:26 and making it impossible to google stuff Jun 21 11:00:38 yeah … true Jun 21 11:01:13 but i thought mobile search usage and ads were not nearly as popular as desktop web browsing Jun 21 11:01:37 in other words, people aren't clicking on mobile adds and googling all that much from their phones Jun 21 11:01:37 for developers certainly not Jun 21 11:01:42 but think of the regular joes Jun 21 11:02:02 most of the person's time is spent in apps, concentrated on a task Jun 21 11:02:23 I think most of peoples time nowadays is used in facebook :p Jun 21 11:02:28 heh Jun 21 11:02:45 oh, yeah that was weird - i heard today that fb mobile adds were doing well for some reason, while google's were not Jun 21 11:02:55 not what i expected Jun 21 11:03:43 well, the other services are importanttoo like gmail Jun 21 11:04:05 I pretty much only use my droid as a music player and mobile irc Jun 21 11:04:21 Zharf: droid-1 ? Jun 21 11:05:07 I ported (and wrote some of) the music player I use and my friend is the author of the ssh client I use to irc Jun 21 11:05:31 g00s, no, I have xperia mini pro actually :) Jun 21 11:06:05 any of you tried monodroid? Jun 21 11:06:38 nah. if you want to use c# use wp Jun 21 11:06:54 :) Jun 21 11:07:02 well the promise of sharing most of the codebase is very appealing Jun 21 11:07:11 plus i/we heart C# Jun 21 11:07:21 but it's expensive. $1.5k/dev Jun 21 11:07:26 i played around with it, but i didnt use it for anything serious or outside their emulator. bit too costly to buy unless you plan on making a lot of apps using it Jun 21 11:08:15 i'd ideally like to share at least the data layer between the ios/android Jun 21 11:08:18 I do like C# better than java though, just the cost of it is for a small developer is :/ Jun 21 11:09:02 i could do C++ but i fear that may slow us down more Jun 21 11:09:47 is there any alternative to c++ Jun 21 11:09:49 all these "crossplatform" things just make the apps look and work like crap on every platform Jun 21 11:10:04 they don't look, feel or work anywhere near like a native application would Jun 21 11:10:21 Zharf: i don't want to share the UI just the data and network stuff Jun 21 11:13:54 it think there is qt framework support for android and iOS funktronic Jun 21 11:14:18 yeah i guess i'll have to sit down and figure out how much of a pain it all is Jun 21 11:22:38 my dad just got an android tab! yay, he wants to be able to have a shared folder sort of thing liek u do on windows when u have a network, dropbox is too slow, any suggestions? Jun 21 11:28:30 dropbox is all that comes to mind Jun 21 11:29:43 google drive Jun 21 11:29:48 (facepalm) Jun 21 11:31:41 Hi Jun 21 11:31:54 Yauhen90: oh yeah, that :) Jun 21 11:32:15 Take a look at my question here if you can answer it Jun 21 11:32:15 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11137114/android-creating-a-new-temporary-sub-listview-from-an-existing-listview Jun 21 11:32:30 hes going thru all the apps now Jun 21 11:32:38 he hasnt got a phone tho so most of them will look weird hehe Jun 21 11:32:59 very good to know they canfinally use some of the things i made Jun 21 11:33:33 there's some samba/ftp apps on the market if he really wants a shared folder between the devices Jun 21 11:33:47 without using some service like dropbox or google apps Jun 21 11:33:51 yeh samba is stuidly complicated and ftp is not much better for an old man :) Jun 21 11:34:04 sigh. GOTO 10. $customer asks if I can emulate an nfc tag on android. Jun 21 11:34:08 id ruin his week if i asked him to set up samba Jun 21 11:34:08 i figured you would be setting it up for him, but if not, yeah i guess not :) Jun 21 11:34:13 hehehe Jun 21 11:34:18 i would but hes 6000 miles away Jun 21 11:34:47 hes got liek 9 pcs all networked just used to dropping files between em Jun 21 11:34:57 makes sense really u should be able to tap into ordinary network Jun 21 11:35:38 gaz`: lol, i'm not going to say it Jun 21 11:41:16 I am using ACTION_INSTALL_PACKAGE Intent to update the same package. I wanted to know if there is a scenario where package will be partially replaced, due to error during installation. Say Internal memory was suddenly made full by other application during the installation Jun 21 11:43:23 is it possible that onServiceDisconnected gets called for a local service for any other event than the service calling finish()? can the system kill only a service of a running app? Jun 21 11:44:25 in my case i have a service that manages playback. can i assume that when onServiceDisconnected there is no audio running any more? Jun 21 11:45:03 izibi: it should never be called for a local service. Jun 21 11:47:32 g00s: not even if the service itself calls finish()? Jun 21 12:05:40 hey all, quick question for you. I'm on the verizon network and am looking for the best android phone out there, preferably with icecream sandwich Jun 21 12:06:30 whats the usual memory class for an ics phone? 48? Jun 21 12:06:34 looking forward to stat of today :P Jun 21 12:06:38 its not dev question idunham_ :) Jun 21 12:07:00 i know, ixc, but one of my developer friends said you guys can point me in the right direction Jun 21 12:07:28 i said the same thing, but his words (me being an IT admin and him being a developer) was "they're they geeks of android phones, they know, just ask" Jun 21 12:07:31 but best means other for ppl :) Jun 21 12:08:12 example for me best is must need 3.7" :) Jun 21 12:08:35 for me higher screens are not comfortable Jun 21 12:09:13 galaxy nexus is quite good Jun 21 12:09:41 let me give you an idea what i do with my phone: Email, texting (obviously) remote support (via bomgard and remote desktop services) and GPS. I'm looking to start developing on them so i just looking at what will give me a couple years of good quality service, the hardware isn't flaky, and the touch screen is reliable and consistant Jun 21 12:09:56 yes, google nexus has not bad specs and they make updates Jun 21 12:10:32 idunham_: so all devices are good ? :) Jun 21 12:10:46 and i am not sure if it's the problem on my screen protector, i think that the screen is not as sensitive as iphone Jun 21 12:10:51 *of my Jun 21 12:11:27 i still use my old motorola milestone, coz i have little problems with new phones :( Jun 21 12:11:51 i've had TONS of problems with the original droid. Losing parts of the touch screen is the biggest one. Jun 21 12:12:21 i would suggest Note if you need a pen Jun 21 12:12:36 e.g. if you need to draw/write accurately Jun 21 12:12:43 if i have a ViewGroup x and a View y, can I put a Fragment into ViewGroup x without causing issues? (also will this affect the backstack in any way?) Jun 21 12:12:44 idunham_: i'd drop verizon and go prepaid Jun 21 12:12:45 you can't find an accurate pen for others Jun 21 12:13:07 something i will likely do myself soon Jun 21 12:13:38 i will be doing some writing, because my consulting company will be accepting credit cards within the next week. Wongk, i'd like to do that, however my company supplies the phones so i got with a network Jun 21 12:14:19 this is a little off topic here, too :P Jun 21 12:14:45 i know, but a developer suggested i come in here and ask because you guys know all about android phones. One says, the god of Android Jun 21 12:15:20 i personally don't like the options for verizon, but if i had to choose, i'd get the gnex Jun 21 12:15:56 galaxy nexus? any opinions on the Razr Maxx? Jun 21 12:16:26 as long as there's an active community and an AOSP rom available, i'm sure it's fine Jun 21 12:16:36 i sure wouldn't use motoblur Jun 21 12:17:12 yea, i didn't plan on going with the atrix or anything like that. Jun 21 12:17:23 woah, the gnex is down to 149 on contract Jun 21 12:17:33 yea, i just saw that. Jun 21 12:17:41 the gnex has the ability to get a lapdock as well? Jun 21 12:17:51 no idea, no use for that personally Jun 21 12:18:21 the gnex you can upgrade ice cream sandwich? Jun 21 12:18:29 it already is Jun 21 12:18:53 oh, is 4.0 current for ics? Jun 21 12:19:07 yes Jun 21 12:19:09 4.0.4, i believe Jun 21 12:19:27 wongk: only in some regions.. most have 4.0.2 I think Jun 21 12:19:39 i don't mean that phone, i mean in general Jun 21 12:19:48 oh Jun 21 12:20:26 for people with real gnexs, they get this page: https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images Jun 21 12:20:44 anyway recall the name of the method thats called when an activity is low on memory Jun 21 12:21:49 gaz`: shockingly, onLowMemory Jun 21 12:21:54 thx dude Jun 21 12:23:31 Ok, Wongk, appel1, thank you for all of your help. It helped me make a decision. Once i start developing with android, i will be back in here nagging again. Jun 21 12:23:36 Thank you very very much! Jun 21 12:31:56 Is view.getLayoutParams().width = newWidth; AND view.requestLayout(); is the best way to change a view width inside an animation? Jun 21 12:37:39 so I've implemented an action bar with NAVIGATION_MODE_LIST, but that creates a separate ActionBar item; how can I make the pull-down attached to the title, like in Maps? Jun 21 12:45:24 djc, do you mean something like this? http://www.knowledgefolders.com/akc/filestorage/satya/documentfiles/3624/honeycomb_list_nav.gif Jun 21 12:52:46 Hello, have someone seen a problem that C++ exception is not caught by catch(...) and application is terminated via std::terminate()? I've tried Android simulators 2.2, 2.3, 4.0.3 and real devices with 4.0.3, 4.0.4 and NDKs since r5 to r8. Every combination fails to complete exception test (test-gnustl-1) found in ndk tests folder. Any references to working combination of NDK/Platform? Jun 21 12:56:25 alexfu: yeah Jun 21 13:03:53 pls pls pls i need help with connection to bluetooth. someone have any experience? msg me pls Jun 21 13:11:21 djc, have a look here: https://github.com/JakeWharton/ActionBarSherlock/blob/master/samples/demos/src/com/actionbarsherlock/sample/demos/ListNavigation.java#L26 Jun 21 13:37:29 Hi, I'm trying to find the source for VideoView. The source though on android.googlesource.com and grepcode isn't usable for my purposes as it references objects and methods not available in the std. sdk. Where can I find the source that is documented on developer.android.com? Jun 21 13:43:17 hmm when you exit a list view should you somehow get each row of the list, clear its views and recycle its bitmaps? Jun 21 13:44:23 are you getting out of memory errors? Jun 21 13:44:36 yes i go between 2 activities and the memory grows Jun 21 13:44:46 that seems to be a theme Jun 21 13:44:56 anybody have the spreadsheet link for the io afterparties Jun 21 13:44:57 for anyone working with Bitmaps Jun 21 13:45:03 yes Jun 21 13:45:13 thats what ive found over the years of searching for an answer Jun 21 13:46:04 so the question "should you", the answer is "generally, no" Jun 21 13:46:20 but if the question is "do i have to".. then the answer may be different :P Jun 21 13:46:26 whats the most common cause of a memory leak Jun 21 13:46:39 well i just wondered what the pros did, and maybe i was missing it Jun 21 13:46:42 keeping references to a context Jun 21 13:46:51 how would i do that Jun 21 13:47:00 static references? Jun 21 13:47:08 not necessarily Jun 21 13:47:11 or just passing it into something somewhere Jun 21 13:47:24 caching drawables is an example i've seen Jun 21 13:47:34 drawables have a reference to a context Jun 21 13:47:40 hmm Jun 21 13:47:42 Have you tried using the Memory Analyzer Tool? It should give you a good idea of where your leak may be. Jun 21 13:47:48 ive tried so damn hard Jun 21 13:47:51 it makes no sense Jun 21 13:48:02 most esoteric tool on the planet Jun 21 13:48:45 I've also had a few leaks in my code while not removing an Activity/Fragment as a listener to some long running classes Jun 21 13:49:15 my object count seems to go up when i go into somewhere and not go back down quite as much as before when i come back Jun 21 13:49:42 Definitely sounds like a memory leak Jun 21 13:50:14 There's an Android blog post about the Memory tools: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/03/memory-analysis-for-android.html Jun 21 13:50:18 It's a good thing to learn Jun 21 13:50:22 ive read it all Jun 21 13:50:26 still cant figure it out Jun 21 13:50:31 It is very confusing Jun 21 13:50:33 altho someone said theres an i/o talk about MAT Jun 21 13:50:38 so im gonna watch that in a bit Jun 21 13:50:47 that tool is super powerful, it just humbles me Jun 21 13:50:52 i barely even know what half the words mean Jun 21 13:50:53 lol Jun 21 13:51:06 not seen them on my adventures even in comp sci degree Jun 21 13:51:30 Yea. I wish I knew more about it as well. Jun 21 13:51:41 once i master it ill make a great youtube video Jun 21 13:51:44 explaining it Jun 21 13:51:47 please do Jun 21 13:55:26 do webviews not take memory from the same heap as an application? Jun 21 13:55:32 if so thats kinda nice thign about them Jun 21 13:55:35 doesnt seem to Jun 21 13:55:52 that would not be possible Jun 21 13:56:31 why not Jun 21 13:56:49 because that's not how the linux kernel works Jun 21 13:56:50 why does my memory not jump up when i display a webview with a massive bitmap in it Jun 21 13:58:05 the question is more how _android_ works and whether the webview is in the same process or not Jun 21 13:58:44 though in this particular case, it could be caching the image or similar Jun 21 13:58:54 if it were in a different process, that would blow my mind :P Jun 21 13:59:09 you must have a really hard time with X ;) Jun 21 13:59:25 proccesses can even be on different computers on the network! ;) Jun 21 13:59:44 i try not to understand how X works Jun 21 14:00:00 it's very simple Jun 21 14:01:35 then why'd they make it a nightmare to write X11 code :P Jun 21 14:02:28 it's not, though non-xlib apis tend to be a lot nicer Jun 21 14:02:39 however this is getting off-topic =P Jun 21 14:03:00 well i think webviews use memory from elsewhere ;) Jun 21 14:03:17 Has anyone used URLClassLoader to load classes at runtime? I'm wondering if I need to expose classes.dex - or if Android secretly doesn't support URLClassLoader. Jun 21 14:15:27 so someone help me out: why is the latest Facebook app so terrible? Jun 21 14:15:32 I used it on a friend's Nexus S Jun 21 14:15:40 and it's just the slowest thing I'd ever seen Jun 21 14:15:51 compared to Google+ which was fantastic Jun 21 14:16:02 wrong channel Jun 21 14:16:02 It's probably just a giant webview Jun 21 14:16:09 wongk: what? Jun 21 14:16:20 does anybody know what kind of architectural choices might make the app that slow? Jun 21 14:16:24 wildCowboy: that was my first thought Jun 21 14:16:38 someone said "oh we'll just make it in HTML and save so much code!" Jun 21 14:16:41 he's saying that's off topic for opengl Jun 21 14:16:48 sorry Jun 21 14:16:51 android-dev Jun 21 14:17:11 oh well, he's wrong ;) Jun 21 14:17:13 nevermind. i totally thought i was in the opengl channel Jun 21 14:17:28 that seems pretty on topic to me Jun 21 14:17:46 the facebook app is slow, we don't care Jun 21 14:17:48 so are there any signs that would indicate native view hierarchy vs web views Jun 21 14:18:05 wongk: I care because I want to know what's a good app and what's a bad app, because I am building an app and I want it to be good Jun 21 14:18:13 and I want to know what makes bad apps and and good apps good Jun 21 14:18:40 Google+ is fast and smooth, Facebook is slow… what's the difference in architecture (if anybody can guess/infer/detect) Jun 21 14:18:57 well google+ has about 30 users Jun 21 14:19:02 billions of users vs. 30 users Jun 21 14:19:11 hahaahaha oh wow that's weird Jun 21 14:19:17 well Jun 21 14:19:33 I was going to write another number but then saw yours Jun 21 14:19:37 :) Jun 21 14:19:38 lol well in reality both apps are loading and displaying the same amount of info Jun 21 14:19:39 oh haha Jun 21 14:19:49 jcromartie: http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/tools/hierarchy-viewer.html is a start Jun 21 14:19:50 same kind of feeds Jun 21 14:19:55 ah cool Jun 21 14:20:18 facebook is mainly written in PHP compiled to C++ Jun 21 14:20:22 I don't know about Google+ Jun 21 14:20:33 hayolie: I am talking about Android apps Jun 21 14:20:36 oh Jun 21 14:20:48 well Jun 21 14:21:01 yeah I heard people complaining about the facebook app Jun 21 14:22:36 google+ is probably gwt mostly Jun 21 14:25:19 hayolie: I think facebook has actually switched to an LLVM-based PHP compiler Jun 21 14:25:31 yareally: gwt is...? Jun 21 14:25:40 OK everybody is still talking about web apps Jun 21 14:25:48 I'm talking about the respective Android apps :) Jun 21 14:25:54 google web toolkit Jun 21 14:25:58 Has anyone played with decompiling classes.dex? Jun 21 14:25:59 https://developers.google.com/web-toolkit/ Jun 21 14:26:20 derichletzy: do you have an actual question Jun 21 14:26:26 yeah i think we can presume what the android apps are written in :) Jun 21 14:26:34 java and maybe some jni C++ Jun 21 14:27:28 wongk: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what the android equivalent would be to exposing java .class files. This is for loading classes at runtime - as in JNI. Jun 21 14:27:47 smali Jun 21 14:27:54 MDijkstra: When was that? http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/04/exclusive-a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-facebook-release-engineering/1/ says they're using HipHop to compile PHP to C++ Jun 21 14:28:00 derichletzy: http://code.google.com/p/smali/ Jun 21 14:28:38 yareally: I'm in there, but everyone is asleep. I'm also not sure if my question is on-topic. Jun 21 14:29:13 #smali you ask questions and wait some hours and then you probably get a reply. if you mean to ask there Jun 21 14:29:45 i mean you can decompile the .dex file though to smali or you can do dex2jar and then use jad Jun 21 14:30:07 if you are trying to figure out how to call code you don't have the source to and want to inspect it Jun 21 14:31:35 as far as using them past that, it should be the same Jun 21 14:31:49 import the package they're in and create objects Jun 21 14:31:50 yareally: My main interest is in loading classes dynamically, which is simple in standard java. It seems to be supported in Android, but either doesn't work at all or doesn't work in the same way as in standard java. Jun 21 14:32:01 oh hmm Jun 21 14:32:29 so using reflection? Jun 21 14:33:04 OK off to buy a Galaxy Tab 2 for development :) Jun 21 14:33:16 I hear that it's much more pleasant than the emulator Jun 21 14:34:12 yareally: Right. Here's a simple j2se approach: http://www.java2s.com/Tutorial/Java/0125__Reflection/URLclassloader.htm Jun 21 14:34:42 how can I bring an app to the foreground after the user had pressed the Home screen button? Jun 21 14:34:58 I would suppose the homescreen sends that app to the background Jun 21 14:35:00 yareally: You expose a .class file and point URLClassLoader to it and it will dynamically load those classes. Jun 21 14:35:07 Sicp: you make it a launcher? Jun 21 14:35:19 what? Jun 21 14:35:23 no.. Jun 21 14:35:33 the application is still running, but the user has navigated away from it Jun 21 14:35:46 I want the tapping on a certain notification take them back there Jun 21 14:35:54 ive done reflection before on android but it's been a while Jun 21 14:35:56 sorry didn't mention that it needs to be spawned from tapping on a notification Jun 21 14:35:57 yareally: In Android, it doesn't, even though URLClassLoader is in the sdk. But maybe this problem isn't totally surprising, since .class files are java bytecode and Android would want dalvik bytecode. Jun 21 14:36:01 er, then just set the pendingintent in the notification to launch the app? Jun 21 14:36:21 i never dynamically loaded a class though as you have, only called to private methods Jun 21 14:36:31 to resume, I want Jun 21 14:36:33 not to launch again Jun 21 14:36:48 derichletzy: remember that Android isn't using a JVM - it's using the dalvik VM... so you can't feed it a class file Jun 21 14:36:56 hi all guys. Someone has used OAuth 2 to gain access to youtube? Jun 21 14:37:26 wongk it def helps, i went thru each row removeed the view grabbed the bitmap and recycled and going between them is now not going up in memory Jun 21 14:37:56 Leeds: Exactly - when I opened the .apk and used the .class files there, it still didn't work. Do you know if the classes.dex is the file I should actually be looking for? Jun 21 14:38:12 yes ↑ Jun 21 14:38:22 dex contains all the java in the apk Jun 21 14:38:44 which poses a problem if someone were to use lgpl Jun 21 14:38:51 but that's offtopic Jun 21 14:39:44 notificationIntent.setFlags(Intent.FLAG_ACTIVITY_SINGLE_TOP); Jun 21 14:39:47 yareally: There is a DexClassLoader, but that seems to want only jars, not files. But maybe I can stream a jar, wrap a File around a buffer, and feed it to DexClassLoader that way. Jun 21 14:41:49 i think this might work derichletzy: http://pastie.org/4126704 Jun 21 14:42:04 gaz`: i have heard other report the same thing Jun 21 14:42:07 others Jun 21 14:42:08 may throw an exception though, just so you're aware Jun 21 14:42:42 that needs try catch Jun 21 14:42:47 ClassNotFoundException Jun 21 14:42:56 i did say it might throw an exception :p Jun 21 14:42:59 :P Jun 21 14:42:59 i didnt load it into an ide Jun 21 14:43:00 lol on google io12 app's screenshots time is 25:10 :)) Jun 21 14:43:28 Class.forName is for loading from jars Jun 21 14:43:32 not apks Jun 21 14:44:41 but i don't really know any of the details about what happens to the java byte code when an apk is installed Jun 21 14:45:07 no java bytecode Jun 21 14:45:26 it becomes dex Jun 21 14:45:55 dalvik byte code Jun 21 14:46:09 which is android's version of bytecode Jun 21 14:46:18 yea Jun 21 14:48:00 I think this is accurate, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19390574/and.png Jun 21 14:58:49 dalvik also uses registers, java uses a stack. not that it matters too much here Jun 21 15:00:55 hey, when I instantiate a MediaPlayer class ...why can't I override the create the method Jun 21 15:05:06 because it's static Jun 21 15:05:39 also, you can't override anything on an instantiated object Jun 21 15:12:35 is there an AndroidManifest/OpenGLES/voodoo expert in the house? Jun 21 15:12:58 or a shrink? I could use a psychologist soon... Jun 21 15:14:30 My scenario: I have an OpenGLES app. If my AndroidManifest.xml has (i.e. uses-sdk before application), then my app CRASHES Jun 21 15:15:02 I also get lots of messages: E/libEGL (30807): called unimplemented OpenGL ES API Jun 21 15:15:18 HOWEVER, If I move AFTER , THEN it works Jun 21 15:15:31 of course, if I have after , then app themes don't work. Jun 21 15:15:56 so i'm either going crazy, or Android hates my ass, or all of my hardware + emulators are crazy Jun 21 15:16:20 I'm guessing that if you move then it doesn't parse it Jun 21 15:16:25 what are the crashes that you get? Jun 21 15:16:39 and what the hell is android:targetFrameworkVersion? Jun 21 15:17:16 android:myMadeUpAttribute Jun 21 15:17:25 a typeo Jun 21 15:17:29 android:targetSdkVersion Jun 21 15:17:31 happy now? Jun 21 15:18:15 jonp: just making sure :) Jun 21 15:18:29 jonp: please pastebin one of your crashes Jun 21 15:18:32 oh, and to make things more interesting, this only happens if targetSdkVersion is 14+. anything earlier, and it works Jun 21 15:18:46 I'm guessing it's a hardware acceleration crash Jun 21 15:20:38 https://gist.github.com/a8d1fb5d11da102ba6c7 Jun 21 15:20:53 crash is actually due to my framework throwing an exception because the SwapBuffers call returned an error code Jun 21 15:21:50 what's odd is that we go from GL calls working (e.g. VertexPointer) to not working (generating "called unimplemented OpenGL ES API") Jun 21 15:22:59 jonp: try disabling hardware acceleration on your app Jun 21 15:23:01 just for grins Jun 21 15:23:06 what's the XML for that? Jun 21 15:24:14 evancharlton: you mean //application/@android:hardwareAccelerated? or something else? Jun 21 15:24:21 jonp: that looks right Jun 21 15:25:28 yup; android:hardwareAccelerated="false" fixes it so it works Jun 21 15:25:32 that's...not ideal. :-/ Jun 21 15:27:32 yeah Jun 21 15:27:43 well, now you know the cause :-/ Jun 21 15:27:58 i don't think that's the cause Jun 21 15:28:01 more like a symptom Jun 21 15:28:17 wait; the default value is documented as being false! Jun 21 15:28:33 jonp: it was false before api 14 Jun 21 15:28:59 ...then shouldn't the docs say that? Jun 21 15:29:00 if you say targetSdkVersion >= 14, you get hw accel Jun 21 15:29:17 but i'm using OpenGL directly. shouldn't that be hw accel anyway? Jun 21 15:29:41 via e.g. http://developer.android.com/reference/javax/microedition/khronos/opengles/GL10.html Jun 21 15:30:40 it would be nice if the docs actually mentioned that "true" was the default in API15 Jun 21 15:31:12 jonp: OpenGL is always hardware accelerated Jun 21 15:31:28 at least that's sane. yay. Jun 21 15:32:02 well, at least i have something sane to investigate that isn't as crazy as the location of uses-sdk Jun 21 15:32:06 hurrah for that. Jun 21 15:32:15 jonp: btw, it's stated pretty clearly in the docs: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/R.attr.html#hardwareAccelerated Jun 21 15:32:34 jonp: all the location of did was move it to an invalid position, meaning it wasn't parsed Jun 21 15:32:38 oh sure, _there_, but not _here_: http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/manifest/application-element.html#hwaccel Jun 21 15:32:55 an XSD for AndroidManifest would be _wonderful_ Jun 21 15:33:00 Google should do that Jun 21 15:46:16 My Epic 4G came in the mail, cool. Jun 21 15:49:10 weee, i crashed github Jun 21 15:52:38 When I go into eclipse and attempt to view the classes inside eclipse I get the error message of "source not found" Jun 21 15:54:08 john_doe_jr: don't try to step into source that isn't a part of your project Jun 21 15:56:08 wongk-home: why can't I simply Android 2.2 lib and expand the android.jar and view the classes...I can see them in Intellij...why not eclipse Jun 21 15:57:29 Hi, is there a way to get the current intent from onResume? I have an app that's launched from an NFC card scan. However the "onNewIntent(Intent intent)" is never called for some reason, but onResume is called. However I don't have a reference to the intent in that. Jun 21 15:57:49 This is in ICS 4.0.4 Jun 21 15:58:03 john_doe_jr: couldn't tell you Jun 21 15:59:08 So I have a service that runs in the background. When I resume my activity, and when the activity is being viewed by the user, how can I update a text view with information from the database? Jun 21 16:02:18 Smashcat: getIntent() Jun 21 16:02:44 evancharlton: Thanks, just found that - I was using this.getIntent() :-) Jun 21 16:04:43 Smashcat: uh, this.getIntent() is identical to getIntent() Jun 21 16:05:17 evancharlton: Yeah, you'd think so, but Eclipse wouldn't compile it unless I removed the "this." prefix. Ah well, it's working now Jun 21 16:07:51 Is anyone familiar with how contentObservers work with cursors? I'm looking at the CursorLoader source and I don't see them implementing the onChange callback or anything.. Jun 21 16:10:01 Amazing how much code is needed in Android to just read an NFC tag. On the arduino in C, it's like 5 lines of code, in Android, about 20 classes and 6 pages of code :-) Jun 21 16:11:13 presumably the android code does more than read a string :p Jun 21 16:11:30 and i'm assuming you don't have to write 20 classes to _use_ it Jun 21 16:11:56 I assume the C code is also running from the command line Jun 21 16:12:02 oGMo: No, that's all I need - just reading the ID, but that involves so many steps it seems ridiculous Jun 21 16:12:22 yareally: not really relevant since in the end the user isn't using the code Jun 21 16:12:24 yareally: It runs on a microcontroller, reports over the serial port Jun 21 16:12:39 12:14 < yareally> I assume the C code is also running from the command line <-- I don't even know how to begin parsing that Jun 21 16:13:00 well im saying it's a console based application Jun 21 16:13:10 yareally: no it isn't Jun 21 16:14:15 Smashcat: the android arch looks like it's set up to easily launch things dispatching on identified tags, which assuming an actual platform with more than one thing that cares, makes sense Jun 21 16:15:10 just presuming about your app, sorry Jun 21 16:15:26 oGMo: Yes, it can only ever launch an activity from a scan as far I can see. There's no way to scan from within an app. Problem is that just getting to the tag involves a lot of steps to convert numberous objects into other objects to get at a simple 8 byte string Jun 21 16:16:29 can someone explain what the tabStripLeft/tabStripRight components of a TabWidget represent visually Jun 21 16:16:47 I realize it's trivial to check but I've got a weird build environment running right now with heavily modified widget code Jun 21 16:16:59 Smashcat: it does? it looks insanely trivial to me Jun 21 16:17:12 enableForegroundDispatch() and then wait for a message Jun 21 16:17:55 oGMo: Hmm, but Android will automatically start a new intent every time a tag is scanned anyway. Jun 21 16:18:19 an intent isn't something that's "started" Jun 21 16:18:26 oGMo: It's done at the OS level. Jun 21 16:18:34 eh? Jun 21 16:18:55 your activity should receive the intent with the nfcmessage and you can pull whatever (including the byte-level content) from that, afaict Jun 21 16:19:12 oGMo: The phone scans for tags automatically when it's unlocked. When an NFC tag is scanned, then an activity is launched that can handle it Jun 21 16:19:41 (even if that activity is already running, it launches it again) Jun 21 16:19:43 did you read the bit about enableForegroundDispatch? Jun 21 16:20:52 it seems you're way off, and this seems obvious after a simple google search and 30 seconds of reading the api :P Jun 21 16:21:14 anyone? TabWidget tabSTripLeft and tabStripRight...? what do they represent visually Jun 21 16:21:15 oGMo: You're talking about Android Beam though arent you? Jun 21 16:21:29 http://developer.android.com/reference/android/nfc/package-summary.html Jun 21 16:21:49 see NfcAdapter :p Jun 21 16:22:18 oGMo: Have you tried it though? The OS itself launches an app when a tag is scanned, automatically. Even if nothing is running. Jun 21 16:22:38 or with the foreground ndef stuff Jun 21 16:24:34 So, an app can't just sit and wait for a tag, because the OS will just launch a new app anyway when the tag is scanned. I don't think there's any way to prevent the behaviour, from what I've found. Jun 21 16:28:50 Smashcat: i think you're not reading or trying this at all Jun 21 16:29:08 you're just looking at the default handling and assuming that's it Jun 21 16:30:37 is there a way to get the size of a view in dp? Jun 21 16:30:53 oGMo: Well I am trying it. I'll have to take a look around for an example I guess. But if it's under 3-4 pages of code I'd be surprised. Jun 21 16:33:34 Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 = not bad at all Jun 21 16:34:26 I'd prefer a 7.7 Jun 21 16:35:17 ahh android dev Jun 21 16:35:17 nice Jun 21 16:35:37 im trying to figure out how to generate a local.properties file for my android project so i can build it with ant Jun 21 16:38:15 Mr_Grim, android update project Jun 21 16:42:18 Im trying my hand at some NFC stuff- I have a card that the phone seems to see something there, yet ends up failing with NFCSTATUS_TARGET_LOST in the adb log, what might cause that? Jun 21 16:42:52 can you ADB into a phone that's not exposing it's usb storage? Jun 21 16:42:56 slushpupie: That's not an error - I'm also working with NFC tags, and that's just standard when the card goes out of range Jun 21 16:43:14 linuxgecko: yes Jun 21 16:43:18 is there a way to simulate an NFC tag on android? Jun 21 16:43:36 Ge0rG: The NFC demo does that Jun 21 16:44:33 So if my app never comes up (or any NFC app, for that matter) what should I check for? My intent filters appear to be the recommended setup Jun 21 16:44:34 how do I tell what class of display my device is? (ldpi, mdpi, hdpi, xhdpi) Jun 21 16:44:38 Smashcat: I'm not talking about simulating _reading_ a tag, but that the phone acts like a tag to another reader Jun 21 16:44:38 yareally: Sorry - just walked back in. Regarding your pastebin, I think the setting is that SomeClass is not in com.package, so we have to load it dynamically, perhaps with a DexClassLoader. I tried pointing URLClassLoader to a classes.dex file, but it still didn't recognize the class. Jun 21 16:45:15 Ge0rG: It's the same thing, it's when the devices go out of range Jun 21 16:45:22 slushpupie: do you have a second tag to check that its not a hardware failure? Jun 21 16:45:35 Ge0rG: I do not (yet) Jun 21 16:46:07 Smashcat: sorry, I can't understand what you meant with the last statement. was it directed at slushpupie? Jun 21 16:46:26 Ge0rG: Ah yeah sorry Jun 21 16:47:24 if my tag is bad, would anything show up as an error? Or would it just do the target lost thing Jun 21 16:47:33 Smashcat: so, any ideas WRT tag emulation? Jun 21 16:48:04 slushpupie: target lost sounds plausible if the antenna is broken or the tag is failing in some other way Jun 21 16:49:19 all the tags I have do behave ;) Jun 21 16:49:21 Hmm, looks like the NFC stuff has changed since the example I'm trying was written. Doesn't call onNewIntent() any more. Have to see if someone's written an app on the market to just read a tag and launch an app, passing the Tag's ID across. Jun 21 16:50:04 * Ge0rG needs to reverse engineer wallet. wonderin if its legal at all... Jun 21 16:51:54 hi, if i want the source for a specifc AOSP application (deskclock), whats the best way to get it without downloading the entire AOSP source code? Jun 21 16:51:59 this is weird, i just got a bug on the dev console - where im loading an image with 1 pixel high, java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: width and height must be > 0 Jun 21 16:52:33 its as if some phones think 1 pixel is 0? Jun 21 16:52:54 f2prateek: many sites exist for browsing the source online Jun 21 16:54:42 gaz`: depending on the targetsdk and some other parameters, phones probably scale your images according to their dpi settings Jun 21 16:54:53 i see Jun 21 16:54:57 so what do i do? Jun 21 16:55:08 make the image bigger? Jun 21 16:55:47 yeah Jun 21 16:55:56 3 pixels probably fine Jun 21 16:56:48 slushpie: could you tell me any site like that? the ones I can find seem to be dead Jun 21 16:57:01 gaz`: store it in drawable-nodpi Jun 21 16:57:44 Why would you ever need a 1px image ;O Jun 21 16:58:09 my guess, minimalzing picture used in tiling Jun 21 16:58:41 if thats the case, really 10px is fine, small enough to be tiny file, but large enough to not tile for million times Jun 21 16:58:43 f2prateek: Ive used http://androidxref.com/ before Jun 21 16:59:23 if android scales an image to less than 1 pixel in either dimension, that's a bug Jun 21 16:59:35 of course, that doesn't mean you don't have to workaround it :P Jun 21 16:59:47 thanks Ge0rG Jun 21 16:59:48 sludhpupie: thanks! exactly what i was looking for :) Jun 21 17:01:09 wongk: you happen to know why drawing look bad in ICS, in least some ICS versions? Jun 21 17:01:18 it looks awful on my touchpad Jun 21 17:01:20 heh Jun 21 17:01:28 no Jun 21 17:02:31 drat ok. I was thinking double buffered but someone said android dont display till painting is done so dunno why Jun 21 17:02:45 Ge0rG: You're working with NFC tags - have you found a way to listen for tags from within an app, and prevent Android from launching a new activity when a tag is found? Jun 21 17:03:31 I might just make nodebattle lwp's line thickness setting aviliable in free version and note that thickness < 1 dont look good on some android devices. Jun 21 17:05:20 Smashcat: there is an api for that Jun 21 17:06:39 GeOrG: To prevent the launch of a new activity? That'll be handy - at the moment I can only read the Tag's ID from onResume, as the app is re-launched every time there's a Tag scan Jun 21 17:11:55 anyone know how to get allocated memory programatically? Jun 21 17:13:24 gaz`: like malloc? Jun 21 17:15:09 gaz` : this should help - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3170691/how-to-get-current-memory-usage-in-android Jun 21 17:18:37 http://developer.android.com/index.html <-- bam Jun 21 17:18:37 woah, new css for d.android.com Jun 21 17:18:48 hello Jun 21 17:23:20 hi all - stupid question. I have a maven parent project, which contains a subproject that I would like to be used as a dependency by a standard java project and an android project. Can I use this as a standard dependency, or do I need to mark it as an android library of some sort? Jun 21 17:24:29 dreamreal: i assume it doesn't use the android resource system? Jun 21 17:24:49 wongk: well... I don't know what that is Jun 21 17:24:57 then you're not using it :P Jun 21 17:25:04 a standard java project is fine Jun 21 17:26:28 ~/Download$ adb install spf20\ svox\ ttf\ prbr.apk Jun 21 17:26:28 1325 KB/s (13427463 bytes in 9.895s) pkg: /data/local/tmp/spf20 svox ttf prbr.apk Jun 21 17:26:30 wongk: what about dependencies of that project? Jun 21 17:26:31 Failure [INSTALL_FAILED_CONTAINER_ERROR Jun 21 17:26:55 dreamreal: what about them? Jun 21 17:27:03 wongk: the project is an AMQP client, so I have a client project (that wraps AMQP); the android project needs to use the wrapper *and* the AMQP libs, am I going to hate myself for this? Jun 21 17:27:08 Anyone know this error? Jun 21 17:27:25 so android app -> wrapper lib -> AMQP lib... all via normal maven Jun 21 17:27:55 adb install spf20\ svox\ ttf\ prbr.apk Jun 21 17:27:55 1325 KB/s (13427463 bytes in 9.895s) pkg: /data/local/tmp/spf20 svox ttf prbr.apk Jun 21 17:27:58 dreamreal: i can't tell you anything about maven, but as long as it's all standard java, you shouldn't have any issues using it from android Jun 21 17:27:58 Failure [INSTALL_FAILED_CONTAINER_ERROR] Jun 21 17:28:05 wongk: okay, thank you Jun 21 17:28:15 If I have any problems, I'll report them so we can track a solution Jun 21 17:29:45 i am trying to generate a local.properties file for the ant build script but i cant seem to figure out how to use android.bat Jun 21 17:29:53 any suggestions? how do i properly set the path? Jun 21 17:32:27 once you submit a app to the market can you remove it at any point in the future? Jun 21 17:33:14 NackNick: of course Jun 21 17:33:34 ok, one more question Jun 21 17:33:53 is there somewhere i can see what version of android is being used the most right now Jun 21 17:33:59 last i checked it was 2.2 Jun 21 17:34:07 im not sure if that has changed now Jun 21 17:34:11 it was a while back Jun 21 17:34:27 NackNick: Guessing most 2.2 devices are at 2.3 at least now Jun 21 17:34:57 NackNick, http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.htmlplatform-versions.html Jun 21 17:35:06 though its being updated right now Jun 21 17:35:17 wtf?! why does d.android.com look so different now? I can't find shit! :( Jun 21 17:35:35 =) thank you Jun 21 17:35:48 http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html Jun 21 17:35:58 the link through google is broken Jun 21 17:38:19 hah, this site has a friggin action bar Jun 21 17:38:23 i just noticed that Jun 21 17:42:20 wongk: and it has 4px wide scrollbars. google engineers excel at UX. once again. Jun 21 17:46:56 The example of a version code with a 0 preceeding it, ie 0412310 http://developer.android.com/guide/google/play/publishing/multiple-apks.html . Is actually really bad considering how Google cuts off the 0, is it not? Jun 21 17:49:59 How can I update a text view at a set interval, or real time, both when the activity is in view and out of view? Jun 21 17:50:22 Greetings! This was a question regarding copyright. Suppose i were to make an app similar to what has already been made before and make it free. Am i voilating any rules? Jun 21 17:50:28 you can't do it when the activity isn't active Jun 21 17:50:38 you can only do it once it resumes Jun 21 17:51:14 wongk, that's easily enough done in onResume, however what if the activity were already in view. Can I have it update at an interval somehow? Jun 21 17:51:32 a Handler would be one way Jun 21 17:53:30 thanks, I'll look into it Jun 21 17:54:02 ninjai: you could also use postDelayed to post a runnable at some point in the future. Jun 21 17:54:19 that's what the Handler is for :P Jun 21 17:54:50 Ha. True. postDelayed may be less code. Jun 21 17:55:03 nice, i didn't know view had a synnoymous call Jun 21 17:56:16 hah, the description for 'performHapticFeedback' is BZZZTT!!1! Jun 21 17:56:37 meh. jd-gui always crashes on "save all sources" Jun 21 17:57:13 that's its way of disapproving of your actions ;) Jun 21 17:57:27 I disapprove jd-gui. Jun 21 18:02:59 woah... website looks boss Jun 21 18:04:34 pfn: hey you around? Jun 21 18:04:44 sup Jun 21 18:08:20 Android dev site redesigned - http://developer.android.com/guide/components/fundamentals.html Jun 21 18:08:24 looks awesome Jun 21 18:08:42 we've been noticing Jun 21 18:09:22 pfn: I'm trying to get Scala working with Eclipse + ADT + Scala Nature Jun 21 18:09:32 pfn: I'm a little unclear about how to actually make Scala work on the device Jun 21 18:09:59 wongk: just saw that haha Jun 21 18:10:09 i keep getting this error running ant: build.xml:470: Unable to resolve target 'Google Inc.:Google APIs:15 any suggestions? Jun 21 18:10:15 it compiles OK in Eclipse but it fails (class not found for any Scala-generated classes) on the device Jun 21 18:10:43 Mr_Grim: have you downloaded the google apis component of the sdk? Jun 21 18:12:43 hold o Jun 21 18:12:44 n Jun 21 18:13:19 im loading the SDK manager Jun 21 18:13:54 ermahgerd guys did you see d.android.com was updated?!? Jun 21 18:14:00 Jun 21 18:14:04 hah Jun 21 18:14:09 Ge0rG says Google APi's are installed Jun 21 18:14:14 API 14 Rev 2 Jun 21 18:14:15 i'm sure it'll be like that all day in here Jun 21 18:15:07 Mr_Grim: but not api 15? Jun 21 18:15:12 no Jun 21 18:15:16 API 14 Jun 21 18:15:21 Mr_Grim: then how shall it resolve version 15? Jun 21 18:15:29 @anyone else that uses an sqlite db for their app wrapped in a ContentProvider/SQLiteOpenHelper: is it regular that you see SQLite DiskIO Errors for your users? Every time I see it, I see multiple things on the file system failing, such as accessing jni libraries Jun 21 18:15:38 good point Jun 21 18:15:44 i need to download it i guess Jun 21 18:15:49 or failure to create shared prefs folders, etc. Jun 21 18:15:52 or how can i tell my build script to use 14? Jun 21 18:15:56 let me know where you find api 15 Jun 21 18:16:10 ahh Jun 21 18:16:14 looks like there are things to install Jun 21 18:20:49 Hey, here is a quick question for anybody familiar with ActionBarSherlock. Do you happen to know off hand what to use instead of extending android.app.ListFragment? Jun 21 18:21:43 no one uses that piece of junk here! Jun 21 18:21:44 Greetings! This is a question regarding copyright. Suppose I were to make an app similar in nature to an existing app(paid) and make it free. Am i violating any rules? Jun 21 18:22:21 Raul-: ask a lawyer Jun 21 18:22:38 doing a little bit of downloading Jun 21 18:22:41 JakeWharton I didnt, so I am a bit later than you Jun 21 18:22:43 then hopefully everything will work Jun 21 18:23:17 jcromartie, you need proguard Jun 21 18:23:22 Raul-: http://goo.gl/ypaZZ Jun 21 18:23:27 wongk, ;_; i hope you enjoy the tears of this developer Jun 21 18:23:37 hah Jun 21 18:24:23 SherlockListFragment Jun 21 18:24:27 you prefix things with Sherlock Jun 21 18:24:32 vexxecon: Jun 21 18:24:42 @slushpuppie :- Thats an interesting article . Thanks :) Jun 21 18:25:13 JakeWharton: I tried that, but it breaks casting fragments in some cases. Jun 21 18:25:35 you'll have to be more specific Jun 21 18:25:54 uno momento. I'll give you a pastebin of what I'm talking about Jun 21 18:26:17 just curious has anyone seen the Android Dynavin navigation console for BMW before? Jun 21 18:29:18 JakeWharton: http://pastebin.com/Sc2Pytty Jun 21 18:29:19 pfn: do I need proguard because it's a good idea? or because it won't work without it? Jun 21 18:29:32 jcromartie: the first one Jun 21 18:30:46 line 21 is where it's broken. It's not that clear where I put the note Jun 21 18:33:36 not really sure what's going on there Jun 21 18:33:46 seems like it should but fundamentally fragments interacting with other fragments isn't wise Jun 21 18:35:19 This is more or less a PoC that we can quickly adapt an app to ABS. We threw that together from a tutorial we found. Jun 21 18:36:16 necro2 Jun 21 18:36:40 http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/testing/testing_android.html Jun 21 18:36:41 o hai 404 Jun 21 18:37:06 vexxecon: are you positive the correct fragment instance is getting returned? Jun 21 18:37:14 generally lookups via a tag is much safer Jun 21 18:37:56 Yeah. It's working as it sits, currently, for ICS and Honeycomb. Jun 21 18:38:33 bam Jun 21 18:38:45 JakeWharton: yo Jun 21 18:38:54 hey Jun 21 18:39:02 JakeWharton: Square sent physical spam to my house :P Jun 21 18:39:06 you guys probably saw this already http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2012/06/replying-to-user-reviews-on-google-play.html Jun 21 18:39:14 JakeWharton: Addressed to my LLC .. heh Jun 21 18:39:35 it probably went to whatever was listed on your merchant account through the dashboard Jun 21 18:39:42 ah yeah Jun 21 18:39:47 and also http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2012/06/helping-you-build-beautiful-powerful.html Jun 21 18:40:05 JakeWharton: you going to be at IO? Jun 21 18:40:10 yep Jun 21 18:40:19 jcromartie, what JakeWharton said Jun 21 18:40:20 nice who else here is going? Jun 21 18:40:30 * pfn couldn't get tix, grrr Jun 21 18:41:13 jcromartie, like I said before, it's a pita because you either need to install scala libs, or proguard Jun 21 18:41:43 do you guys remember if the presentations were live last year? or was it just the keynote ? Jun 21 18:42:35 pfn: hm, OK well I need to get some semblance of an app together tonight and it doesn't have to be Scala, so I'll work on that later Jun 21 18:42:55 but it would please me to no end to be able to code our Android stuff in Scala Jun 21 18:43:58 g00s: some are, as listed on the site Jun 21 18:44:27 is anyone aware of any android tablets that sport NFC? Jun 21 18:44:54 you gonna take your 10 inch tablet into the store and pay at the cash register with google wallet? :p Jun 21 18:45:15 No, use this: http://www.yubico.com/yubikey-neo Jun 21 18:46:17 mmm, lovin those new style sheets on developer.android.com Jun 21 18:46:38 McLovin? Jun 21 18:47:31 yubikey rocks Jun 21 18:47:35 not for payments Jun 21 18:47:46 no, not for payments :-) Jun 21 18:48:58 im going to use that one that is supporting chase Jun 21 18:49:46 Isis Jun 21 18:50:03 http://www.paywithisis.com/ Jun 21 18:52:33 evening Jun 21 18:52:37 why does the heap tool in eclipse say my app has 6.2 meg allocated and 5 meg free, and heap size is 11 meg - yet logcat issaying it cant allocate enough bytes Jun 21 18:52:59 so, eh. how do you become a top developer? Jun 21 18:53:29 do what i do Jun 21 18:53:35 walk the way i walk Jun 21 18:53:46 start learning Scala Jun 21 18:53:48 it's the future Jun 21 18:53:49 * gaz` sniggers Jun 21 18:53:53 Ge0rG: do the exact opposite of what gaz` does Jun 21 18:53:57 hehe Jun 21 18:54:19 if you have to ask to be a top developer, you're not going to be a top developer Jun 21 18:54:22 JakeWharton square will only let me put in numbers for a zipcode :( Jun 21 18:54:55 gaz`: the memory could be fragmented. gc in android is not generational / compacting Jun 21 18:54:56 US zip codes have only digits Jun 21 18:55:08 wtf Jun 21 18:55:14 so what do u do Jun 21 18:55:24 System.defrag()? Jun 21 18:55:25 * Ge0rG thinks you need to bend over for a google employee Jun 21 18:55:25 i'm just speculating Jun 21 18:55:37 no, the process needs to be killed :P Jun 21 18:56:49 lack of a compacting gc is indeed a blemish. One of the few things proper VMs do right, and if it isn't grandfathered in somehow it tends to never happen later Jun 21 18:56:52 so you have to figure out a way to measure fragmentation, not sure how to do that Jun 21 18:57:20 sounds a bit ridiculous Jun 21 18:57:36 i have seen this sort of thing with froyo, allocating large cursors (which tend to fill up to the max cursorwindow size of 1mb) Jun 21 18:57:51 still, it's not a whole lot of applications that suffer from it Jun 21 18:58:35 the lack of compaction is indeed a bit annoying Jun 21 18:58:37 gaz`: yeah, its usually hard to come about; thats why i said, you have to figure out if that is indeed the root cause. and your activity leaking thing is not encouraging, that has to be fixed Jun 21 18:58:57 yeh im only just learning these tools Jun 21 18:59:01 im actually finding lots of mess Jun 21 18:59:05 in my own code :) Jun 21 18:59:12 :) Jun 21 18:59:13 today ive fixed some insane issues that i hadnt even noticed Jun 21 18:59:30 i'm guessing you have some more insane issues :D Jun 21 18:59:37 yeh couple more Jun 21 18:59:44 plenty more no doubt but ill do the important ones Jun 21 18:59:54 the onCreate(Bundle) -- that Bundle can preserve data from run to run? Jun 21 19:00:51 dreamreal: no, it's more like that this bundle contains the data you saved in it during the appropriate lifecycle method Jun 21 19:01:00 JakeWharton: address validation is a really nasty topic, especially when all over the world Jun 21 19:01:07 Hey guys, this is driving me crazy. I have a runnable that I want to post (with a 1000ms delay), but it appears that it's just running on the main thread because I'm getting a NetworkOnMainThreadException Jun 21 19:01:15 Square is currently only available in the U.S. Jun 21 19:01:16 post to a handler* Jun 21 19:01:49 JavaDog: if you are posting it on the main thread's handler it's the expected result Jun 21 19:02:04 JavaDog: create a HandlerThread (see IntentService for ideas) Jun 21 19:02:09 Normally I would use "new Thread(runnable).start();", but I don't know how I could work a delay into that Jun 21 19:03:04 JavaDog: new Runnable() { public void run() { new Thread(runnable).start(); } } although feel free to do it better Jun 21 19:03:52 Ah, I see. Thanks! Jun 21 19:03:52 Thread.sleep()? :) Jun 21 19:03:59 also our runnable could just start with a 'Thread.sleep(1000)' I suppose Jun 21 19:09:54 gaaaaaah F$@% CHECKED EXCEPTIONS Jun 21 19:11:05 don't hate checked exceptions, hate the people who use them where they aren't good fit. (Don't say they aren't good fit anywhere, because they probably are.) Jun 21 19:12:17 You guys' solution worked perfectly but this is now probably the sloppiest method I've ever written Jun 21 19:12:28 no, they just suck altogether. makes thing like visitor pattern a pita Jun 21 19:12:43 visitor not declared to 'throw exception'? Jun 21 19:12:50 I guess I'd agree Jun 21 19:13:00 check it out http://pastebin.com/L62jAshi Jun 21 19:13:01 I also hate that Runnables aren't allowed to throw whatever Jun 21 19:13:19 I often do runWithExceptions which can throw, just to avoid nesting shit so much Jun 21 19:14:19 JavaDog: you are right, it looks pretty hideous, and confusing. Jun 21 19:15:04 if you are defining the generic interface, you can use techniques like exception tunneling (ick) Jun 21 19:15:10 I can't help feeling that you would do better if you knew about AsyncTack maybe. It might get rid of all that Bundle and Message stuff with any luck. Jun 21 19:15:22 I do know about it Jun 21 19:15:25 hi Jun 21 19:15:31 This is for a class and I'm being forced to use a Thread/Handler Jun 21 19:15:55 I don't remember how to include libs project into the build path since the adt update ? Jun 21 19:16:00 well it looks pretty hideously verbose, just what java is notorious for. Jun 21 19:16:05 He also has us putting Exit buttons on our activities Jun 21 19:16:15 JavaDog: welp :( Jun 21 19:16:32 Exit buttons are very Symbian Jun 21 19:16:35 I have a libs folder at the root of my project, it should be automatically added to the build path, no ? Jun 21 19:16:42 I just want my A Jun 21 19:19:19 also doesn't android call spinner the combo box? what you probably mean is the indeterminate progress bar Jun 21 19:19:57 I fully grant that this naming is pure android snafu Jun 21 19:20:14 Ah, that's true. I chose the name "spinner" because, you know, it spins Jun 21 19:20:16 but then again, maybe it was an actual spinner you mean. Jun 21 19:20:25 damn I wish I could comment to some user reviews now and not to some hypothetic future Jun 21 19:20:29 ah, okay. Well, try to call it something like PROGRESS instead. Jun 21 19:20:42 I won't be using any spinners so it shouldn't matter in this project Jun 21 19:21:06 The whole app will also crash if I switch orientation, but we're told not to worry about it Jun 21 19:21:25 Why is the developer console mention "OpenGL textures: all"? Jun 21 19:21:31 is=does Jun 21 19:21:33 sounds like you're learning pure app-store ready writing there... Jun 21 19:21:36 exit buttons and crashy apps Jun 21 19:22:21 It's not so bad. He tells us how to do things the right way, but doesn't force us to do things because of the time constraints (1/2 summer session) Jun 21 19:23:17 Certain things, anyway. The app has to work in portrait mode. Jun 21 19:25:02 this app is mostly and exercise in SAX parsing XML and interfacing with a PHP script on his server Jun 21 19:34:47 "Google is rolling out bug reporting to the Chrome Store (http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/20/google-separates-app-review...). I can't wait for Google to release it to the Play Store too" interesting if true Jun 21 19:36:33 all google needs to do now is private betas Jun 21 19:42:17 they have that already Jun 21 19:42:21 it's called GMail attachments Jun 21 19:44:01 the real beta is putting an app on the Market for anyone to try. Nothing can simulate that Jun 21 19:44:35 I believe Google Play is full of beta apps without the beta tag Jun 21 19:45:29 that's the truth Jun 21 19:45:40 and plenty of "Top Developer" put out beta apps Jun 21 19:45:46 or even things I would be comfortable calling beta Jun 21 19:45:53 hey Jun 21 19:46:20 I'm wondering about using a lightbox in my app Jun 21 19:46:22 so in 4.0 are applications allowed access to turning the wi-fi on to ad hoc mode? Jun 21 19:46:35 Is that allowed, design-wise? Jun 21 19:46:37 obviously after prompting & such Jun 21 19:46:57 http://developer.android.com/design doesn't mention it Jun 21 19:47:21 well,  i guess the proper question would be - what kind of manipulatoin do you have with the wireless drivers (if any)? Jun 21 19:47:24 there's so called "Top Developper". What the rest is called ? "Bottom Developers" ? "Incompetent Developers" ? "Not-so-important Developers" ? Jun 21 19:47:37 developer Jun 21 19:47:38 Developers Jun 21 19:47:54 Developers Jun 21 19:48:07 * sythe chimed in to make it three Jun 21 19:48:12 :D Jun 21 19:48:17 I - LOVE - THIS - COMPANY! Jun 21 19:48:18 and those below them are just elopers Jun 21 19:48:19 ? Jun 21 19:48:20 XD Jun 21 19:48:25 kakazza: Exactly Jun 21 19:48:59 heh...I'm treating the Android Design "guidelines" as *rules*. Jun 21 19:49:07 ;) Jun 21 19:49:18 jcromartie, look at my android sbt plugin and try that one, maybe Jun 21 19:49:28 it's a bit easier to use than jberkel's, imo Jun 21 19:49:42 URL? Jun 21 19:49:47 JakeWharton: no, thats lame (gmail attachments) Jun 21 19:49:53 give me a break :) Jun 21 19:50:07 so use one of the 50 open source or cloud solutions that already exist Jun 21 19:50:37 g00s: http://hockeykit.net/ Jun 21 19:50:41 jcromartie, github.com/pfn/android-sdk-plugin Jun 21 19:50:52 jcromartie, it does all the proguard stuff automatically Jun 21 19:50:57 we use hockey kit, our own rolled solution, and a cloud solution Jun 21 19:51:07 wongk: cool, thanks ! Jun 21 19:51:11 hockey kit sucks because it's manual Jun 21 19:52:00 i think more specifically, play needs the idea of a 'beta channel' which people can subscribe too for updates, or just stay with the stable releases Jun 21 19:52:13 i've never actually used it, btw Jun 21 19:52:20 that sounds out of scope Jun 21 19:52:21 listen to jake :P Jun 21 19:52:31 The best beta I can think of is public release + hotfix whithin 48h Jun 21 19:52:58 bubbleguuum: uh Jun 21 19:53:14 muhahahahaha: http://developer.android.com/design/media/seekbar_example.png Jun 21 19:53:18 enjoy the bad reviews, since people won't understand they are using a beta :) Jun 21 19:53:19 They're using a lightbox, there Jun 21 19:53:22 w00t! Jun 21 19:53:46 I call my "beta" apps alphas Jun 21 19:53:46 photography is hard! Jun 21 19:53:55 g00s: no matter how your private beta test turn out, it is nothing compared to herds of real user breaking you app with their funny devices Jun 21 19:54:13 bubbleguuum: maybe you don't understand what 'beta' means Jun 21 19:54:25 you'll get to that eventually anyhow Jun 21 19:54:35 I did long ago thank you Jun 21 19:54:37 or the 'private' part Jun 21 19:56:06 a dialog may contain UI elements such as sliders, text fields, checkboxes, or radio buttons that allow the user to change app or system settings." Jun 21 19:56:11 private beta FTW Jun 21 19:56:14 w00t Jun 21 19:57:15 noone test betas Jun 21 19:58:16 I do Jun 21 19:59:00 does anyone know how to draw a sphere with opengl es 2? Jun 21 19:59:30 Triangles. Lots of triangles. Jun 21 19:59:57 haha i figured.. Jun 21 20:00:17 Hey all, I'm trying to write a simple set of unit tests for one component of my application and am a bit lost. The app itself is a service, which does a bunch of stuff and uploads the results. I want to write test cases for the upload manager, but it requires a MyExtensionOfApplication class. How should I go about providing this? Jun 21 20:00:35 so do you do like 360 triangle fans that rotate 360 around the circumference? Jun 21 20:00:36 bakis: try googling for stuff? the #2 hit i found was http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6072308/problem-drawing-a-sphere-in-opengl-es for example Jun 21 20:00:50 which has code Jun 21 20:01:26 it builds a set of vertices but that should get you started if you want a triangle-based surface instead Jun 21 20:01:53 i've seen that.. but it's es 1 and i'm not sure how well it'll work for me Jun 21 20:01:57 basically you have to do it the hard way, i.e. with math. Jun 21 20:02:26 ctate: i think the topic should have a link on how to register a nick in this channel. it used to be on d.android.com but i can't find it there either with the redesign Jun 21 20:02:42 i often get people asking me how to do this Jun 21 20:02:43 g00s: the irc server itself talks about it when you connect, iirc Jun 21 20:03:15 bakis: first answer on this question should help http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10488086/drawing-a-sphere-in-opengl-es Jun 21 20:03:19 ctate: people barely recognize such stuff in the wall of text ;) Jun 21 20:03:36 or rather, second question Jun 21 20:03:45 thanks Jun 21 20:03:47 yeah, the topic should say "Can't talk? Register your nick http://x.y Jun 21 20:04:08 cool, thanks ctate Jun 21 20:04:23 ye gods Jun 21 20:04:23 NTinNJ: see topic :) Jun 21 20:04:30 the /topic is getting enormous Jun 21 20:04:44 at least hte important part is still there Jun 21 20:04:47 i.e. the imgur link Jun 21 20:05:00 hi Jun 21 20:05:01 hehe Jun 21 20:05:02 alternatively, welcome to #android-warlord Jun 21 20:08:19 OK, lets see if this works. Hi folks! Jun 21 20:08:39 Woozaa! g00s and ctate, thank you both so much! Jun 21 20:08:46 any advice on hunting down slow-scrolling issues when traceview shows nothing weird Jun 21 20:09:03 does anyone what is better for a game: 1- Scale the bitmaps with Bitmap.createScaledBitmap(), 2- Use an intermediate bitmap as a framebuffer and then let the canvas do the scaling when blitting ? I have reading a book "Beginning Android 4 games programming" and they recommend the second method... but I'm a bit concerned about the scaling quality because it is done in real time ... Jun 21 20:09:41 we add "Please don't post links to obvious, widely-covered news" as part of the topic Jun 21 20:09:53 er, that was supposed to be prefixed with "can" Jun 21 20:10:21 did you guys see the new developer site?! d.android.com Jun 21 20:10:54 hello everyone! Jun 21 20:11:02 Figures, now that I have this set up, I have to leave, will bbiab a bit, thanks for all that helped. Jun 21 20:11:06 looks nice almost like your using an android app on your pc Jun 21 20:11:10 I am facing a very strange issue in my application Jun 21 20:11:21 ctate: ... why #android-warlord? ;D Jun 21 20:11:37 are you old enough to get references to "alt.warlord" ? Jun 21 20:11:40 :) Jun 21 20:11:49 hey folks. any reason onPostExecute() would not be called for an asynctask? my doInBackground definitely returns, and the onPostExecute parameter is the right type because I used @override. onPostExecute(param) just never gets called... Jun 21 20:11:56 or alt.fan.warlord Jun 21 20:12:00 does anyone what is better for a game: 1- Scale the bitmaps with Bitmap.createScaledBitmap(), 2- Use an intermediate bitmap as a framebuffer and then let the canvas do the scaling when blitting ? I have reading a book "Beginning Android 4 games programming" and they recommend the second method but I'm a bit concerned about the quality of the real time scaling, what do you think ? Jun 21 20:12:33 I use a list selector in order to display a color on a listview row when the user presses a row. It does nothing. But the background color that I set in my listselector is taken Jun 21 20:12:55 xroberx: you asked that three minutes ago Jun 21 20:13:01 if people didn't answer, it isn't because they didn't see it Jun 21 20:13:20 ctate: oh sorry, I got disconnected several times, I didn't know if the question made it into the chat Jun 21 20:13:24 personally i'd say scale once up front, rather than every time you blit Jun 21 20:13:28 much cheaper in cpu power Jun 21 20:13:47 unless memory is a problem, in which case obviously you can work with the smaller source images and let them scale up onto the display Jun 21 20:14:15 ctate: thanks, that's what I had in mind Jun 21 20:14:25 framerate is everything Jun 21 20:14:35 ctate: hmmm... I think internet showed up in my area after it Jun 21 20:15:49 god you're young Jun 21 20:15:53 ctate: and what about using opengl ? I'm not into it, but I recall it can do bilinear filtering when scaling, doesn't it ? Jun 21 20:16:04 xroberx: that's entirely up to the hw Jun 21 20:16:05 I created a simple project with a listview displaying strings. My list selector is working fine on this project ( = the right color is displayed for the row when the user presses it ). But if I use the same listselector for my other project, it doesn't work. This other project doesn't display Strings, but it displays objects in its listview. May it be the cause of the issue? Jun 21 20:16:08 hi all Jun 21 20:16:18 certainly it will scale, but the quality of the resampling is totally hw dependent Jun 21 20:16:52 do you have some example, sample or information to use CursorLoader with a simple SQLiteDatabase and not a contentProvider Jun 21 20:16:55 hola gents Jun 21 20:17:02 ctate: Ok, I think I'll better prescale the bitmaps Jun 21 20:17:28 We found a lot of tutorial for loading a contentprovider but nothing for SQLiteDatabase Jun 21 20:17:43 ctate: And I fully know that I'm young. Imagine my reaction to being routinely mistaken for someone who remembers the days before IP when NCP ruled... Jun 21 20:17:57 ha ha Jun 21 20:18:17 no idea ? Jun 21 20:18:18 you know why IRC is named that? Jun 21 20:18:21 "Internet Relay Chat" Jun 21 20:18:36 as opposed to the *earlier* thing called "relay," which was not on "the internet" Jun 21 20:18:44 Hey we are looking for a good android dev for a prototyping job. Anyone interested? Jun 21 20:18:48 * ctate used 'relay' a little bit back in the day Jun 21 20:18:57 preferably on location in NY but doesn't have to be Jun 21 20:19:05 blackwhite: notice that in the channel topic it says "Please don't advertise websites, jobs, or contracts" Jun 21 20:19:10 it means it. Jun 21 20:19:10 oh sorry Jun 21 20:19:16 didn't see that Jun 21 20:19:18 sorry sorry Jun 21 20:19:38 does that mean i have to stop advertising d.android.com? Jun 21 20:19:41 :P Jun 21 20:19:46 ctate: haven't seen relay, but I suspect it was something weird hacked by Finns hugging their computers for warmth who wanted to talk with other finns who were not on the same machine (so "talk" was incapable of connecting) :) Jun 21 20:19:46 did someone say "Sorry Sorry"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6QA3m58DQw Jun 21 20:19:48 :) Jun 21 20:20:01 p_l: ha ha ha. in fact it was a USENET thing Jun 21 20:20:14 so, not tcp/ip at all Jun 21 20:21:23 omg, the back stree boys are back, this time in Japanese :) Jun 21 20:21:40 eh? Jun 21 20:21:53 NackNick: the vid i posted is a k-pop boy band Jun 21 20:22:01 "Super Junior" Jun 21 20:22:06 new design site doesn't play well with generic types in my version of chrome Jun 21 20:22:06 ohh Jun 21 20:22:15 thought it were gonna say big bang Jun 21 20:22:17 feel the autotune! Jun 21 20:22:37 JakeWharton: Fragmentation! Jun 21 20:23:18 i'll get my pitchfork Jun 21 20:25:35 reto just posted recommendations for using the play comment system Jun 21 20:25:54 i think he is right, most often silence is better. definitely bad to look like a jerk Jun 21 20:26:05 users are morons Jun 21 20:26:11 people are morons Jun 21 20:26:29 * wongk is a moron Jun 21 20:27:51 good public embarrassment would be lovely for morons if only it worked. Only people who are embarrassed publicly tend to get very hostile instead. Jun 21 20:27:52 Users: the cause of and solution to all our development problems. Jun 21 20:29:05 back, I am looking for anyone who may know how to get GPS coordinates of a phone that you will never have access to, but the IMEI, ESN, Cell Number, and SMS messaging is possible, anyone have any input? Jun 21 20:29:19 still, embarrassment, guilt, and other similar mental states are an important part of the social system, and critically they are those where individual takes other people into account. Jun 21 20:30:13 well, that was inevitable :| http://www.scmagazine.com.au/News/305881,android-app-steals-contactless-credit-card-data.aspx Jun 21 20:30:16 * ctate | Larry Ellison Buys Sixth Largest Hawaiian Island Jun 21 20:30:20 NtinNJ: Ask the FBI Jun 21 20:30:37 ctate: Hawaiians dont like americans, we'll see how that goes Jun 21 20:30:56 err, "Mainlanders Jun 21 20:30:59 (he bought Lana'i, which was like 98% owned by one particular company) Jun 21 20:31:23 No, this is not for anything like that, Its a service I want to offer to my PC customers. Like they went bar hopping, got hammered, they know they lost there phone at 1 of the bars, I want to be able to tell them where it is Jun 21 20:31:34 g00s: the word is 'haole' only i hestitate to use it for real because it's like the n-word. Jun 21 20:31:42 yeah Jun 21 20:32:08 NtinNJ: Easiest way is for the phone to ping its location over to a server every so often Jun 21 20:32:47 name the app 'waking up in vegas' Jun 21 20:32:51 instant gold Jun 21 20:33:07 Smashcat: Thats the hole thing, just like in the computer business and the customer loses all his data "Do you have a backup?" of course he says "No". You lost your cell, did you install and tracking software, of course, he says "No!" hehehe Jun 21 20:33:26 any* Jun 21 20:33:57 NtinNJ: Heh, well, if you can't install any software to track it, you're a bit out of luck really! You'd have to work with the phone carriers, as they would have access to that data. Jun 21 20:33:58 doesn't google collect enough information to know your location within meter of radius anyway? if not, what kind of marketing company are they. Jun 21 20:34:40 at least opponents of google make it sound like this Jun 21 20:35:15 Smashcat: Well. there are companies that SAY they can do it, but I think they are all scams. I think there would be a way of doing through it through IMEI or ESN or SMS, just not sure about how to go about doing it. Jun 21 20:36:01 NtinNJ: it's possible from the NOC of the network it is logged into Jun 21 20:36:07 PERFECT world would be if "Cell-Control" actually worked, but it is definitely a scam. Jun 21 20:36:14 NtinNJ: It's not really an Android question. That's to do with the phone infrastructure I think. It's no good knowing that information unless you're a phone company. Jun 21 20:36:17 NtinNJ: now, if you had such access, you'd already know that Jun 21 20:36:25 case closed Jun 21 20:37:15 Smashcat: Well the software is kind of an Android question, considering that is the market I want to target. I am imagining it doing it from a host phone to the target phone. Jun 21 20:38:02 ctate: if this story is true in that these features will come to play, i think google should develop a library you can include with your app so you can submit a bug from the app. or add the ability in Android Play app - just so they don't have to go to the play website themselves http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/20/google-separates-app-reviews-from-bug-reports-in-chrome-web-store-coming-soon-to-google-play-too/ Jun 21 20:38:08 BuNtinNJ: But if you're not installing software on the missing phones, then if you find a way to track an android phone, the same information can be used for any phone. Jun 21 20:38:15 NtinNJ: as I said, you need apropriate access to the network operation system to get thta Jun 21 20:38:20 NtinNJ: you. won't. get. it Jun 21 20:38:35 Blackberry is going away, MS phones are on their last leg, only major players now are droid and iphone. Jun 21 20:39:22 NtinNJ: You would have to install software on the phones, realistically. Either sw that sends its location periodically, or something that responds to a specific SMS message with a gps location. Jun 21 20:39:24 NtinNJ: that doesn't matter Jun 21 20:39:29 i would certainly not write off MS Jun 21 20:39:56 Well, I am thinking it is something either through triangulation of the cells or the ping the phone does to the GPS sats, just not sure how to do it yet. Jun 21 20:40:12 It's rather silly to think that MS doesn't become major player. That corporation has money and they know the game, they will buy the presence they want if they can't get it otherwise most likely. Jun 21 20:40:38 NtinNJ: Yes, but YOU can't access that information. Only the company that owns/controls the cells can. Jun 21 20:41:00 NtinNJ: As I said, you need access to NOC, or NOC-level access to mobile network's operations system Jun 21 20:41:11 NtinNJ: There's a pretty obvious privacy reason why you can't do it. Jun 21 20:41:13 Smashcat: Its just radio waves, hence the concept of a cell scanner. Jun 21 20:41:14 NtinNJ: also, GPS is unidirectional, there are no pings Jun 21 20:42:17 There are no pings on the GPS side, but there are pings on the triangulation side. Jun 21 20:42:19 g00s: re NFC scanning of contactless credit cards Jun 21 20:42:30 that's roughly like saying that hte Square app can skim credit cards Jun 21 20:42:53 although obviously the surreptitious e.g. wallet-to-wallet aspect makes it very different Jun 21 20:42:59 it's technologically totally unsurprising Jun 21 20:43:06 NtinNJ: nope. The network can do so, because they have full data on which cells you access etc. (can be spoofed a bit with hacked radio) Jun 21 20:43:09 * ctate doesn't use a contactless card Jun 21 20:43:20 NtinNJ: GPS on phone side is totally passive Jun 21 20:43:46 and based on comparing the lag of timestamps Jun 21 20:44:05 Yes, but the handshake from 1 tower to the phone to the next tower IS bidirectional. Jun 21 20:44:38 NtinNJ: and listening to it can get your ass in jail, at least where I live. Jun 21 20:45:20 p_l: Obviously, it can be used for illegal purposes, so can painkillers, but they both have legal purposes as well. Jun 21 20:46:07 NtinNJ: I was under the impression that all phones encrypted their traffic now anyway. So you wouldn't know what phone was connecting anywhere. All you'll know is that a phone somewhere in the World might be connecting to a tower somewhere in the world. Jun 21 20:46:07 NtinNJ: yes. The legal uses are covered by apropriate warrants sent to network operator which queries apropriate systems in their network Jun 21 20:46:11 I am not interested in the phone calls whatsoever, just the GPS locations. Or as close as possible to it. Jun 21 20:46:35 Smashcat: the crypto is child's play, and you can spoof the tower easily in current systems Jun 21 20:47:00 p_I: In the US? Jun 21 20:47:05 Smashcat: It is my understanding that it has something to do with the IMEI or ESN, THEN the stuff is encrypted not those numbers. Jun 21 20:47:08 Smashcat: no, Poland Jun 21 20:47:39 Soon time for I/O woho Jun 21 20:47:42 Hmm, but you'd need to be in the vicinity of the phone to make this work Jun 21 20:47:56 p_l: You do not need a warrant to locate a phone you own, or a phone that you authorize someone to find for you that you own. Jun 21 20:47:57 Does anyone know of any good docs on current cracking practices? Be nice to know what we're up against. Jun 21 20:48:42 NtinNJ: But you need one if you deploying wide-area "wiretap" Jun 21 20:48:45 MontyCarleau: There are some automatic tools you might want to use, not sure where theyare tho Jun 21 20:48:49 which is what you're proposing Jun 21 20:49:13 Smashcat: Not necessarily, if the phone receives a call from the host, the call connects there must be a way of knowing what tower it is using, or, via SMS Jun 21 20:49:38 p_l: I'll say it again, I have no interest in the phone conversation, just the location as to where the phone is. Jun 21 20:49:48 NtinNJ: if you want to develop such service, contact operators of mobile networks to open a channel where you can show up with apropriate power of attorney to show you have the credentials Jun 21 20:50:01 NtinNJ: SMS messages don't carry that information though. And the phone will only be connected to a local tower, so you'd need to be in that area Jun 21 20:50:06 NtinNJ: wiretaps aren't limited to *phone* calls Jun 21 20:50:32 NtinNJ: GSM IGP paths aren't exchanged past exchange points Jun 21 20:50:47 p_l: You are making this way more complicated and legality issues than it really is, BTW, I'm also a paralegal, I am not worried about the laws, I am worried about building the technology to do the job. Jun 21 20:51:03 heh paralegal Jun 21 20:51:31 NtinNJ: I'm talking from PoV of someone who was required to uphold the confidentiality of the exact data you're trying to grab Jun 21 20:51:50 stating "I'm not asking for conversation contents" was no defence Jun 21 20:51:51 p_l: It is HIS phone he wants to retrieve! Jun 21 20:52:10 NtinNJ: again - show up to operator to ask for location Jun 21 20:52:31 NtinNJ: otherwise you tap into *everyone* in the area, because that's how *broadcast medium* works Jun 21 20:52:38 why is this an issue again given builtin location services Jun 21 20:52:46 p_l: I don't know about where you are, but I can tell you in the U.S. the carriers do NOT want to help you find your lost phone, there is no money in it. Jun 21 20:53:23 NtinNJ: Don't people have insurance on their phones for things like that? Jun 21 20:53:24 oGMo: That you have to pay a monthly fee for. Jun 21 20:53:41 Smashcat: Yeah, and the deductible is a MINIMUM of $50.00! Jun 21 20:53:44 NtinNJ: because, imagine it, it's a legal mess where it's easier to give a nagging client a new phone instead of creating a landmine someone will use against the company Jun 21 20:53:44 yeah what you want is really silly Jun 21 20:54:02 NtinNJ: Mine is free with my house insurance Jun 21 20:54:27 Smashcat: You have no deductible on your house insurance? I have never heard of that in my life! Jun 21 20:54:38 (again, I'm tlking from PoV of a telco worker who could reasonably have root-level access to event streams containing location data) Jun 21 20:54:47 woo $50 deductible, might as well just buy a new SGS3 Jun 21 20:54:57 unsubbed Jun 21 20:54:58 p_l: They don't just GIVE You a phone because you lost your old one. Jun 21 20:55:34 I'm trying to do this for like $9.95 and I tell you where your phone is, if I can't find it, you don't pay, that simple. Jun 21 20:55:35 NtinNJ: They do with me. In fact I broke one in my house - new one in the post 2 days later :-) Jun 21 20:56:35 Smashcat: All depends on the situation, how you broke it, was it because of a defect, and all that is different than you lost it or it was stolen. Jun 21 20:56:36 NtinNJ: the cost of top-of-the-line phone is lower than court costs when some journalist wants to kick a hornet's nest later Jun 21 20:56:41 wow, you want to do this commercially even .. yet haven't the slightest idea what a mess of legal and privacy issues (and regulations) are involved Jun 21 20:56:56 NtinNJ: Nt sure 9.95 would be very profitable, considering the legal issues you're likely to run into, and you need to work with the telcos I'd imagine. Jun 21 20:57:25 oGMo: I know exactly the legal issues, the client agrees that it is his phone and wants it located. Simple as that. Jun 21 20:57:29 Telcos don't like it, especially in countries where at least theoretically there are strong privacy laws Jun 21 20:57:49 NtinNJ: you clearly have no idea, and hanging around lawyers being their secretary doesn't make you an expert Jun 21 20:57:51 NtinNJ: How will you know it's his phone, and not his ex girlfriends he's stalking? ;-) Jun 21 20:57:55 NtinNJ: that stops being true the moment you deal with broadcast medium Jun 21 20:59:19 I'll jsut leave this here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lookout.labs.planb&hl=en Jun 21 20:59:36 He signs the contract, it clearly states any false information is purjury, he's on the hook at that point, not me. And for the record, I am far from a secretary, I've been working for the law firm for over 20 years and prepare trials, jury selections, all that, only difference between me and a lawyer is I don't have the letters after my name. lol Jun 21 21:00:09 ejenkins: Yeah, I've used plan b, works very well, but it doesn't work on android 4.0+ Jun 21 21:01:25 you have, however, no idea how the technical details destroy your CYA contrat Jun 21 21:01:29 *contract Jun 21 21:01:37 ctate: i hope JB is going to have BT 4 Low power support; working with one gadget maker, it seems to be a big deal Jun 21 21:02:36 this is the problem with android: even if its released today, the # of people who will have it 6 mos from now will be low still. it makes it difficult for google to adapt to market conditions quickly Jun 21 21:02:41 NtinNJ: nor how the logistics of doing it anyway other than through operator leave you on ice Jun 21 21:03:37 p_l: well, he's been warned, now just get some popcorn and watch the fun i guess heh Jun 21 21:03:54 so in this case, BT 4 LP enables an ecosystem that can not grow around android Jun 21 21:04:39 You guys do not understand the concept I think, there is absolutely NO legal risk. Jun 21 21:05:02 (also, verizon at least has mobile recovery stuff, i was under the impression at&t did as well .. not familiar with others) Jun 21 21:05:05 And ANYONE can monitor radio waves, it cannot be used it court, but it can be monitored. Jun 21 21:05:07 Heh, famous last words ;-) Jun 21 21:05:31 NtinNJ: you either need to build a comparative cellular network, or use gear that gets intelligence agencies knocking on your doors for spying - stuff is called TEMPEST, btw -, or get on the bad side of law for unauthorized use of computer system, aka cracking into operators' internal system. The first option, btw, gets you in hot water for breaking spectrum management laws and privacy laws (because unlike the operator, your cell scanner ... Jun 21 21:05:38 ... can't separate only the IMEI/ESN it wants) Jun 21 21:05:45 NtinNJ: that's why they are encrypted (although badly) by default Jun 21 21:06:16 see 'illegal wiretapping' Jun 21 21:06:37 btw, iirc, IMEIs or ESNs aren't sent in clear text Jun 21 21:06:47 yeah look at the trouble google got into just by looking at broadcasting wifi which is about as unregulated as you can get Jun 21 21:07:24 oGMo: that was intentional. the engineer and his managers knew about it Jun 21 21:07:34 Yes, ans if you look at the law on illegal wiretapping it says "John Doe vs. Joe Shmoe" the evidence was inadmissable as law enforcement did not obtain the proper warrants. It does NOT say there was any CRIMINAL activity, just that it was inadmissable. Jun 21 21:08:34 g00s: and? Jun 21 21:08:43 oGMo: not arguing, just adding Jun 21 21:09:03 NtinNJ: keyword: 'law enforcement' Jun 21 21:09:17 android development, not law. that is this channel's purpose. Jun 21 21:09:29 perhaps we could be a little more focused? Jun 21 21:09:45 There was another case where a KNOWN drug dealer, the cops put a cell phone in his car with the tracking software, it also made the phone a room bug, they had a bunch of phone conversations, where he was picking up the dope, busted him with POUNDS of coke, the judge threw out all the evidence. Jun 21 21:10:08 sorry Jun 21 21:10:09 NtinNJ: again - "law enforcement". You are not it Jun 21 21:10:15 EOT Jun 21 21:11:07 I think I'll need something stronger than pepsi after this talk Jun 21 21:11:55 That Plan B software works, all you need is the gmail user account and the password, works great, remotely installs, but like I said, it doesn't work with Android 4.0 Jun 21 21:11:58 So... Red Bull. Jun 21 21:11:58 * oGMo grabbed a coffee, has more dev to do ;) Jun 21 21:12:05 And they are not going to support it anymore. Jun 21 21:12:17 ctate: I was thinking scotch Jun 21 21:12:26 islay? Jun 21 21:12:28 or Bailey's Jun 21 21:12:41 robb_www: nope, don't have Islay scotch here Jun 21 21:13:03 if I were in Aberdeen, it would be probably in any bigger supermarket, though ;) Jun 21 21:13:10 there's no reason to define key Strings in res/values/strings.xml, correct? Jun 21 21:13:14 my favourites are bowmore and ardbeg Jun 21 21:13:16 e.g. Bundle keys and SharedPreferences keys Jun 21 21:13:34 Rockmaninoff: i usually use static class members for that Jun 21 21:13:35 just declare public final String SHARED_PREF_KEY etc Jun 21 21:13:36 Heh, that was my requirements when I was programming fax servers, case of Mountain Dew, Box of Yodels, Giant bag of Doritos, and a huge bottle of Chivas Regal. lol Jun 21 21:13:48 kk just curious if there was some reason i wasn't thinking of to do that Jun 21 21:13:49 it's #android-dev not #uisgebagh either :) Jun 21 21:13:57 :P Jun 21 21:14:10 what about #doritos-tangy-cheese-appreciation? Jun 21 21:14:21 though using res/values/ids.xml is pretty awesome, i must say Jun 21 21:14:22 * ctate has a bottle of Port Ellen at home, neener neener :) Jun 21 21:14:28 o0o0o never had those! Jun 21 21:14:52 ctate: I have a bottle waiting for my graduation of some pricer scotch I brought back in first year :) Jun 21 21:15:02 :) Jun 21 21:15:06 ANYWAY Jun 21 21:15:09 coughctateshowoffcough Jun 21 21:15:14 heh Jun 21 21:15:27 NtinNJ: lucky to have found it, and it was an anniversary gift Jun 21 21:15:46 The question is, are you still married? Jun 21 21:16:30 ctate: at github drinkup/whisky tasting in december, we had some unique ports/scotch that are not going to be produced outside of single series. Was fun :) Jun 21 21:16:39 github _what_? Jun 21 21:16:41 damn Jun 21 21:17:10 Is there any way to programatically build one of those ActionBar drop-down style menus in addition to using a tabs navigation mode? Jun 21 21:17:17 Dammit, now I gotta go to the liquor store! bbiab. Jun 21 21:17:29 I've previously rolled my own ICS style drop-down, but is there any way for me to use... ABS to build both a drop down and tabs? Jun 21 21:20:03 Guys, how to set variour divider height in listview? I have a list with items and kind of items groups (like first letter header in contacts), so I want to use standard divider for items and no divider for items group 'header'. Jun 21 21:20:30 *various Jun 21 21:21:00 xa0c: listView.setDividerHeight(6); Jun 21 21:21:22 did it change all dividers height? Jun 21 21:21:30 Yes. Jun 21 21:21:58 well, I dont need that. I need one height for 'header item' and other for 'regular item' Jun 21 21:21:59 Anybody know how I can programatically add an ICS-style drop-down to an ActionBar without using it as the main navigation mode? Jun 21 21:22:12 xa0c: Then you need to build your own layouts and use adapters. Jun 21 21:22:52 xa0c: Quick Google for an example: http://bartinger.at/listview-with-sectionsseparators/ Jun 21 21:22:54 Already did that, but what is next? Are you talking about using bg drawable for items? Jun 21 21:23:59 Chronax: use the custom navigation view Jun 21 21:24:06 or as the custom nav, rather Jun 21 21:26:38 Chronax: checked your link. That is not about dividers. Jun 21 21:27:26 xa0c: I give up. Jun 21 21:27:30 :) Jun 21 21:27:56 JakeWharton: I'm trying that. Doing setCustomView() but it doesn't appear. Jun 21 21:28:03 Just threw a simple TextView in there for testing. Jun 21 21:28:12 did you call setDisplayCustomViewEnabled(true)? Jun 21 21:28:17 xa0c, why dont you add items for your headers rather than trying to hack it into dividers? Jun 21 21:28:18 Of course not. :) Jun 21 21:29:10 xa0c, you can provide more than 1 type of view in your adapter, use one view for the list items, and another for the headers, easy Jun 21 21:29:20 why don't I see Log.d output when I run an app from Eclipse? Jun 21 21:29:33 robb_www: I'm already do that. The problem is that I need no listview's divider (default, 1px) above/below my 'header' item and NEED it in all other cases Jun 21 21:31:20 xa0c, why not remove all dividers from the ListView by defualt and then do them manually in the adapter? Jun 21 21:32:25 relevant (assuming it works) http://savagelook.com/blog/android/android-quick-tip-remove-listview-dividers Jun 21 21:32:26 Well. That is what I'm asking. How to do that without using custom backgtound with drawn divider? Jun 21 21:32:39 background* Jun 21 21:32:51 I don't even see it in LogCat Jun 21 21:33:26 xa0c, how about this https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/android-developers/9Sxa-hxnLfU Jun 21 21:34:16 what causes "conversion to dalvik format failed with error 1"? Jun 21 21:34:37 robb_www: that is what I'm talking about: http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4875/sectioninginlistviews.png Jun 21 21:35:00 jcromartie: do other variations of Log.* work? Jun 21 21:35:18 haven't tried Jun 21 21:35:26 try that and report :) Jun 21 21:35:40 xa0c, i know, so you include a divider manually in the layout for your list item, and if the item below your list item is actually a header, you set its visibility to GONE Jun 21 21:35:41 and make sure conditions are in place that the Log.* gets called Jun 21 21:36:03 Hmm... Will check it. Jun 21 21:36:32 xa0c and by divider in layout, use margin or presumably padding on bottom view Jun 21 21:38:34 I just restarted the device and Eclipse and I guess it is going to work now Jun 21 21:38:35 :P Jun 21 21:38:40 sweet Jun 21 21:39:18 Eclipse can be a pain in the but w updating code/resources sometimes, drives me bonkers Jun 21 21:39:23 butt* Jun 21 21:40:05 grr now there's nothing Jun 21 21:40:17 haha Jun 21 21:40:22 what's that mean Jun 21 21:40:35 no output from my app in LogCat Jun 21 21:40:49 I see other messages from the device Jun 21 21:40:56 hundreds! Jun 21 21:42:54 hm, OK Eclipse console says the activity was not started... Jun 21 21:43:13 am I supposed to uninstall it or kill it before running again?? Jun 21 21:45:59 shouldn't have too Jun 21 21:46:13 how r u seeing logcat, in eclipse? Jun 21 21:49:57 grr @ WindowLeaked, goes to show how badly im maintaining state Jun 21 21:50:00 Lol, I don't find how to connect to android dev with the new interface :| Fail x) Jun 21 21:50:44 robb_www: well, that trick does work. but I have to check type of previous item in the list to not add divider for one of the header's corners. I think, there is no way to get rid of such checking, right? that is the code I get: http://hash.su/7435 Jun 21 21:50:58 "corners"? Jun 21 21:51:10 does a View's onTouchListener return false by default? Like if you never setOnTouchListener() to a View, does the one it uses by default return false? Jun 21 21:51:14 I mean top/bottom of the header's item Jun 21 21:52:11 xa0c, interesting, that URL is blocked by OpenDNS in response to malware Jun 21 21:52:12 in case "[regular item][header item][regular item]" I have to add divider only for one of the regular items Jun 21 21:52:17 %) Jun 21 21:52:28 yep, you need to do that check, that is true Jun 21 21:52:57 http://pastebin.com/W9Aii3pL Jun 21 21:53:24 thanks Jun 21 21:53:48 is httpget the best way to get content from your site? Jun 21 21:54:21 xa0c, why are you adding it in code rather than in xml? Jun 21 21:55:11 yep. much faster (performance) to create layouts in code Jun 21 21:55:31 xa0c, it looks ok, but would be a lot neater if you added it to the XML, and then this condition can be used to toggle between a visibility of VISIBLE and GONE, after grabbing the divider by using findViewById Jun 21 21:55:47 hehe, funny http://blog.jgc.org/2010/10/x-is-down.html Jun 21 21:55:48 really? @ much faster Jun 21 21:56:30 well... I didnt do time calculations, checked it by my eyes on my phone :) Jun 21 21:56:39 hargh Jun 21 21:56:58 xa0c, were you using findViewById each time, or did you store the references in the views tag? Jun 21 21:57:00 has anyone ever done anything beyond the default with a SlidingDrawer handle, such as add something that needs to be clicked? Jun 21 21:57:22 hehe, I'm not such noob anymore ;) Jun 21 21:57:38 I can't seem to get clicks/touches from the handle in a SlidingDrawer...the content gets them ok, the parent layout gets them ok, just everything but the actual handle Jun 21 21:58:09 xa0c, with your approach im not clear how your able to re-use the views, surely your adding more and more dividers as you continue through the list of items? Jun 21 21:58:35 I'm setting up eclipse on a computer running xp and I've run into a problem. I enabled usb debugging and device manager is showing that the drivers are missing but if I uncheck usb debugging it appear correctly. So are there different drivers for usb debugging? I did install Google usb driver in the sdk manager Jun 21 21:58:58 I have huge lists and I'm using any çùûûøèøäøåí åù øüçêùìó perfomance (sometimes I'm even cacheing measured size of the item's layouts) :) Jun 21 21:59:40 sorry, there was "I'm using any possibility to improve perfomance" Jun 21 22:00:05 right, so how are you re-using those views if your adding a new divider in your code each time the view is requested? Jun 21 22:00:26 Not each time. Only if requested view is null. Jun 21 22:01:04 don't allocate Paints during draw Jun 21 22:01:08 Xa0c do you happen to know what I can do? Jun 21 22:01:27 also: profile your app and see where it's spending time Jun 21 22:01:58 OK, back, new attack plan, anyone know how I can find out EXACTLY what information is received to the phone that receives a text/SMS message? Jun 21 22:02:21 Can you guys help me out? Jun 21 22:03:04 right, so say for example [list item0.1] [header1] [list item1.1] [list item1.2] [header2] [list item2.1] [list item2.2] and your adding a divider to the bottom of list items, but only want them between one or more list items, i.e. [list item0.1] [header1] [list item1.1] divider goes here [list item1.2] [header2] [list item2.1] divider goes here [list item2.2], say the adapter, for arguments sake is working from top to bottom, the fir Jun 21 22:03:34 risto: if you've installed the google drivers, taht should be all you need. does 'adb devices' show up your device? Jun 21 22:03:36 robb_www: I get what you're talking about. Yep, there is a bug: I have to add divider for all records and move checking I showed to you out of the creation scope (I have to change visibility only) Jun 21 22:03:48 No Jun 21 22:04:07 with usb debugging on, i mean Jun 21 22:04:08 Device manager is showing 2 devices with a yellow question mark Jun 21 22:04:09 xa0c, ok, just making sure your not adding it every time Jun 21 22:04:33 of cause, I'm not. :) Jun 21 22:04:40 thanks for your help. Jun 21 22:04:50 np, learning myself Jun 21 22:06:27 Bankai no device manager has 2 yellow question marks. 1 with my device name and the other says mtp Jun 21 22:06:49 risto: don't care what device manage says, what does 'adb' say Jun 21 22:07:42 No devices Jun 21 22:08:10 It wouldn't show any if windows doesn't recognize it because of missing drivers Jun 21 22:08:37 I call this method in onCreate() of my activity, which is supposed to create a thread do do something repeatedly, but it doesn't work. Can someone assist me with the error I'm making? http://pastebin.com/T0hbKaa3 Jun 21 22:10:01 it doesn't do something repeatedly; it prints "COUNT: 0" and then exits. Jun 21 22:10:10 at least, that's what the code looks like to me. Jun 21 22:14:23 Bankai you here? Jun 21 22:15:11 risto: i really don't know anything about windows, but adb was working for me yesterday and the device wasn't showing up properly in device manager Jun 21 22:15:36 What did you see in device manager? Jun 21 22:16:17 When I do adb devices it doesn't show any devices Jun 21 22:21:22 I think it has to do with my device there aren't any debugging usb drivers for xp Jun 21 22:22:47 Why can I just enter 2 command lines after each other on ADB, then it freezes? Have tried to reinstall the SDK with no luck. Jun 21 22:22:58 Hello. When using the Android SDK i get stuck after using about 2 commands. Need to CTRL+C and restart to get it working. Now I'm trying to do a thing that requires at least 3 inputs, and it get stuck after entering the last one... What to do? Have reinstalled 100 times, tested different ADB's Jun 21 22:23:35 Moomijnen: no idea but you can probably work around it but just doing 'adb shell cmd' from your host Jun 21 22:23:46 What commands are you doing Jun 21 22:24:08 Theese: adb shell, cd /data/local/tmp, ./busybox md5sum /dev/block/mmcblk0p18 Jun 21 22:24:24 and the piping doesn't work as I've tried. Jun 21 22:27:15 Anyone got any clues? :( Jun 21 22:27:54 Are you sure you want #android-dev and not #android-root ? Jun 21 22:28:07 Well, the problem isn't in the rooting, it's in the ADK. Jun 21 22:28:16 Doesn't work with any 3-followed-up commands. Jun 21 22:28:31 What about ls, ls, ls Jun 21 22:28:38 ls after each? Jun 21 22:28:49 No, I mean doing ls three times. Jun 21 22:28:55 Since you said _any_ Jun 21 22:29:01 stuck. Jun 21 22:29:08 could do it once. Jun 21 22:29:11 :o Jun 21 22:29:12 second time, it got stuck. Jun 21 22:29:39 It's so frustrating, just trying theese last steps and got stuck. ;\ Jun 21 22:29:47 for about an hour. Jun 21 22:30:36 Moomijnen: did you try 'adb shell $cmd' as i suggested Jun 21 22:30:57 Inside CMD? Jun 21 22:31:24 on your command line, 'adb shell ls' for instance Jun 21 22:31:31 try that repeatedly it should work Jun 21 22:31:32 lemme try Jun 21 22:31:57 i have a fairly simple AlertDialog launched from a DialogFragment, when i rotate the screen i get a WindowLeaked exception, i am handling the open/closed state of the dialog via a flag and onSaveInstanceState, and dismissing the AlertDialog in the DialogFragments onStop, but for some reason it is still happening, any ideas? Jun 21 22:32:25 it re-opens as expected, just cluttering the log Jun 21 22:32:52 oh, new design on d.android.com Jun 21 22:32:55 I only get permission denied with the $ Jun 21 22:33:10 how do you pipe? is it with | ? Jun 21 22:33:12 ixc: yes i'm not sure about it Jun 21 22:33:48 mr6: not sure? :D i just see other web design that i saw at afternoon :D Jun 21 22:33:49 ixc: prefer the old one sof ar Jun 21 22:34:04 ixc: no i just mean I'm not sure I like it :> Jun 21 22:34:19 oh, previously was more ergonomic :) Jun 21 22:34:36 mr6, lets say I gotta do these 3 commands: http://pastebin.com/Br4hCzWx Jun 21 22:35:53 Moomijnen: then do "adb shell 'cd /data/local/tmp; ./busybox ...'" Jun 21 22:37:05 Could not find the path specified... hmm Jun 21 22:39:26 that search bar on d.android.com is super strange Jun 21 22:39:29 "adb shell 'cd /data/local/tmp | ./busybod md5sum /dev/block/mmcblk0p18'" Jun 21 22:39:32 it dances around as you type Jun 21 22:39:56 mr6: "adb shell 'cd /data/local/tmp; ./busybod md5sum /dev/block/mmcblk0p18'" does give me "the path could not be found" Jun 21 22:40:19 Moomijnen: ok you're typing busybox instead of busybox now Jun 21 22:40:49 Moomijnen: you should be able to figure this out from here Jun 21 22:40:53 Moomijnen: good luck Jun 21 22:41:17 s/busybod/busybox/ Jun 21 22:43:50 mr6, yea.. tried all of the combinations; separating the entire cd, adding $ or # before, 'cd.....; .busybox' and capsling it in within " " Jun 21 22:44:43 has anyone seen a stacktrace like this before? http://paste2.org/p/2057786 - it's when using ViewPager Jun 21 22:46:49 is there no further 'Caused by...' stack tracing? Jun 21 22:47:24 no that's all I get Jun 21 22:48:05 Moomijnen: there should be no $ or # anywhere in your command, and the "" were just for you to see what I saying. have you used a linux shell before? Jun 21 22:48:38 Yes I have mr6. Not too much, but enough to notice that the ouput from the .busybox is 0. Jun 21 22:49:08 ./busybox not .busybox Jun 21 22:49:21 Yea, I recopied from CM's wiki. Jun 21 22:49:49 this guy seems to have the same problem but his solution doesn't seem great... http://stackoverflow.com/q/11099897/663370 Jun 21 22:51:08 Unterminated quoted string? Jun 21 22:51:11 mr6 Jun 21 22:51:55 Moomijnen: maybe, it's pretty simple to figure out if you know bash or a similar shell, but this isn't the right channel for it anyway Jun 21 22:51:56 http://pastebin.com/j4YEWAv5 - that's the input. Jun 21 22:52:17 If I could pipe shell then it would be awesome. Jun 21 22:52:50 Moomijnen: well you've got too many single quotes clearly in that paste Jun 21 22:53:34 Moomijnen: and I don't know if /data/lo' even exists Jun 21 22:53:48 It does. I can access that one through normal. Jun 21 22:53:59 But when I get to the next steps, it cuts me off. same with LS or ANY other command. Jun 21 22:59:26 mr6, sorry for beeing so troubly. I'm not going to bother anymore, going up with a virtual machine or two to get this working. Thanks for your help though! Jun 21 22:59:56 + Jun 21 23:01:18 i have an activity with a viewpager, and Im starting a new activity with a new viewpager. am I meant to unbind the old viewpager first or something? Jun 21 23:03:10 bourke_: Nope Jun 21 23:03:52 A ViewPager is a view like any other view. Apart from the magic things that it does. Jun 21 23:04:20 yeah. the nature of this trace seems like it's something to do with the backstack management but it's pretty obscure Jun 21 23:04:54 so, what is the solution to avoiding WindowLeaked exceptions, if dismissing them explicitly in the parents onStop is not enough? Jun 21 23:04:54 when will google make websites that are compatible in chrome Jun 21 23:05:05 the new d.android.com is totally fucked in chrome Jun 21 23:05:11 just like the android developers blog Jun 21 23:05:28 the right hand doesn't know what the left ... Jun 21 23:05:33 hehe Jun 21 23:05:49 so their web engineers dont test in the worlds most popular browser? Jun 21 23:05:53 it worked fine for me in chrome Jun 21 23:06:00 or test in THEIR OWN browser? Jun 21 23:06:21 wongk, try scrolling Jun 21 23:06:31 in which part Jun 21 23:06:32 birbeck: this is the same company that gives you the compatibility library but no MapFragment Jun 21 23:06:36 * birbeck shuts up Jun 21 23:06:51 i'm beginning to think android dev site looks shitty because i don't have that font.. could that be true Jun 21 23:07:04 i had the chrome window on my right monitor, the window chrome extended past the bottom edge of the screen Jun 21 23:07:07 scrolling works fine Jun 21 23:07:25 yeah, that font is aweful. i use an extension called stylebot for chrome that works great Jun 21 23:07:26 but the android developers blog was broken last i checked Jun 21 23:07:40 the font looks fine to me too :P Jun 21 23:07:47 * as Helvetica Neue = win ;) Jun 21 23:07:49 birbeck: broken how, exactly? file a bug? Jun 21 23:08:19 wongk-home: its hard to describe, maybe just a mac chrome font problem Jun 21 23:08:24 i cant find anything on the new site though, i just tried to pull up the platform versions report for my manager and had to result to googling it Jun 21 23:08:30 could be, i don't touch mac Jun 21 23:08:34 its readable, just not pretty at all, and there is the problem, defining pretty Jun 21 23:08:52 its like to small and condensed Jun 21 23:08:54 how was the blog broken? Jun 21 23:08:55 g00s: fwiw, looks the same to me in mac chrome and in safari Jun 21 23:09:13 hm, i haven't tried safari Jun 21 23:09:28 * g00s <-- dumbass Jun 21 23:10:18 i never use dafari Jun 21 23:10:21 *safari Jun 21 23:10:51 safari lol Jun 21 23:11:01 mac lol Jun 21 23:11:02 apple lol Jun 21 23:11:51 OSX is the best unix! Jun 21 23:12:04 safari and chrome render different for me Jun 21 23:12:07 unless you don't need interactivity Jun 21 23:12:08 Also has the best packagemanger! wait... Jun 21 23:12:21 g00s: i wasn't being exhaustive nor paying very close attention Jun 21 23:12:37 i'm totally willing to believe that chrome is screwing the pooch; cf Chrome printing Jun 21 23:12:49 ctate: agree to disagree! :P Jun 21 23:13:00 but this is the internet! Jun 21 23:13:04 386 man! Jun 21 23:13:20 ctate, you're on OS X? Jun 21 23:13:24 yes Jun 21 23:13:43 What terminal emulator do you use? And what third party packagemanager? Jun 21 23:13:47 iTerm2/homebrew here Jun 21 23:13:48 i use Terminal.app Jun 21 23:13:52 eww Jun 21 23:13:55 and ports Jun 21 23:14:02 whats the matter with Terminal.app :P Jun 21 23:14:18 i haven't found anything better than Terminal.app Jun 21 23:14:26 suppose i could check out iTerm2 Jun 21 23:14:28 I think I switched to iTerm2 very quickly. Jun 21 23:14:32 its a terminal with tabs, what else could one need Jun 21 23:14:46 g00s: i do wish one could configure color schemes per tab, not just per window Jun 21 23:14:59 but that's about it Jun 21 23:15:02 iTerm2 has tabs, split windows and so on. Jun 21 23:15:22 Was Terminal.app the one where you couldn't click links with Cmd+Click? Jun 21 23:15:24 I forget Jun 21 23:15:38 but Terminal.app also has tabs and split windows and so on Jun 21 23:15:49 There was one particular reason I switched to iTerm2, but I can't remember now. I only remember being really annoyed. Jun 21 23:15:51 ctate: you can ! aren't you glad you talked to me now ? Jun 21 23:15:53 :D Jun 21 23:16:17 make sure you have a few color schemes defined Jun 21 23:16:24 g00s: i'm trying to remember what it was that i wanted. maybe it's that i wanted to be able to launch a new winow with a defined color scheme from a shortcut? Jun 21 23:16:24 then set the terminal to show the tab bar Jun 21 23:16:36 Hmm, yeah. Seems like you can't Cmd+Click to open links in Terminal.app Jun 21 23:16:39 right click on an empty part of the tab bar, and you can create a tab in any color you defined Jun 21 23:16:57 i can count the number of times i've wanted to open a browser link from Terminal.app on ... zero hands. Jun 21 23:16:58 ctate: there's very little reason to switch to iterm these days. the new tmux integration is interesting, but not all that useful. Jun 21 23:17:13 moving from ports to homebrew on the other hand... Jun 21 23:17:18 My IRC client is on the terminal. Jun 21 23:17:29 ctate: you must not use the terminal often Jun 21 23:17:32 the only time i've ever used ports was to install some stuff that the Android build relies on Jun 21 23:17:45 birbeck: not at all! i use it all the freaking time Jun 21 23:17:50 for running makes in :) Jun 21 23:18:16 sorry... s/much/for much/ Jun 21 23:18:29 I use homebrew to install ntfs-3g, wget, fuse4x, cmake, htop, unrar, valgrind,... Jun 21 23:18:37 oh probably; dedicated sw tends to be a lot better than in-terminal software, so. Jun 21 23:18:49 i use curl rarely enough that i don't miss wget Jun 21 23:18:57 What IRC clients do you use on OS X anyway? I found none that satisfies me. Jun 21 23:18:58 i have no idea what cmake or ntfs-3g or htop are Jun 21 23:19:04 mr6, got it working. Tried on my laptop. Thanks for the help anyways <3 Jun 21 23:19:09 kakazza: Colloquy so far, though it's kinda buggy. Jun 21 23:19:13 kakazza: irssi? :) Jun 21 23:19:25 I wanted NTFS write support. So ntfs-3g + fuse4x it is! Jun 21 23:19:39 pretty much all the widely-recommended ones suffer from "omgconsoleport" design flaws Jun 21 23:19:46 or just install linux and have it all :/ Jun 21 23:19:46 haha Jun 21 23:19:58 I dislike the Linux fonts :x Jun 21 23:20:01 cf iOS ports to Android Jun 21 23:20:05 kakazza: that's because they SUCK Jun 21 23:20:12 o/ Jun 21 23:20:16 \o Jun 21 23:20:22 arial is ariel, roboto is roboto Jun 21 23:20:31 I've spent way too much time futzing with my xft config Jun 21 23:20:50 mdwright: then just rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf Jun 21 23:20:53 i have no idea what xft is :) Jun 21 23:20:55 its useless now Jun 21 23:21:16 birbeck: "arial is ariel" -- what's that about? bad css on one of our sites? Jun 21 23:21:33 ctate, my mis-spelling, arial is arial Jun 21 23:21:38 ah nm Jun 21 23:21:50 talking about windows vs os x vs linux fonts Jun 21 23:22:03 i remember recompiling freetype2 to enable hinting all the time Jun 21 23:22:04 ctate: config file for rendering freetype fonts Jun 21 23:22:05 hooray for no more roboto! for opera fans: https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/font-replacement-table/?display=en Jun 21 23:22:14 xfs, xft - man what a huge pile of shit all that was Jun 21 23:22:15 lets you set hinting, antialiasing, etc. Jun 21 23:22:20 g00s: no kidding Jun 21 23:22:51 the only problem with my macbook pro now is the hardware Jun 21 23:22:56 birbeck: the fonts are the same, the renderers are not Jun 21 23:22:58 everytime there's an ubuntu update my fonts look like they've been dragged through another puddle of mud Jun 21 23:23:04 every time rather Jun 21 23:23:05 with ubuntu on it, the software is actually usable Jun 21 23:23:37 mdwright: i havent had font issues in probably a decade Jun 21 23:23:45 ctate: Did you install Roboto on your system? Jun 21 23:23:46 In what manner should I run this? I want to have an on switch, and while the on switch is on, I want a database query to happen repeatedly in the background. Jun 21 23:23:47 and then there is fontconfig - its like every layer in linux, whether sounds or whatever, is a pile of shit, so they just build layers on layers to correct it Jun 21 23:23:57 alsa, all that crap Jun 21 23:24:00 hehe Jun 21 23:24:08 kakazza: i'd expect it to come along as a webfont Jun 21 23:24:11 alsa is a bitch, ill give you that Jun 21 23:24:16 i think i'm seeing roboto, yes Jun 21 23:24:21 but only if you have multiple interfaces Jun 21 23:24:21 on the new site design Jun 21 23:24:32 no, alsa is always a bitch Jun 21 23:24:33 t Jun 21 23:24:34 her Jun 21 23:24:35 e i Jun 21 23:24:36 s Jun 21 23:24:37 [grr] Jun 21 23:24:40 birbeck: and then gstreamer on top of that hahaha Jun 21 23:24:41 what Jun 21 23:24:47 there is no decent audio/video architecture for linux. Jun 21 23:24:47 that's why.. pulseaudio..never mind Jun 21 23:25:07 well, stagefright is getting there Jun 21 23:25:10 other that that, no way. Jun 21 23:25:45 ctate: actually, quite well, a large portion of production that has made it past the garage is done in linux Jun 21 23:26:11 anyhow, back to work, i dont need to debate this stuff Jun 21 23:26:15 there are people who deliberately build furniture using nothing but hand tools, too. doesn't make it optimal. Jun 21 23:26:19 :) Jun 21 23:26:20 i use what works best for me Jun 21 23:26:22 I wonder, does Google do UI tests on Android? If so, using what testing framework? Jun 21 23:26:31 i dont care what environments others like Jun 21 23:27:11 monkeys! Jun 21 23:27:49 the problem with activity instrument tests are that they work for single activities only Jun 21 23:28:18 I know Robotium which can test whole apps. Jun 21 23:28:26 yeah, thats what i use Jun 21 23:28:58 But it seems that updating Robotium is gambling these days. Jun 21 23:29:03 we do a ton of monkey testing, it's true Jun 21 23:29:28 kakazza: 3.1.x is working fine Jun 21 23:29:42 I'm moving from 3.2 to 3.3 Jun 21 23:29:58 2.x to 3.x was hard. Many tests failed :/ Jun 21 23:30:09 just test with the same version all the time :) Jun 21 23:30:17 And they don't seem to have test cases for their framework, heh. Jun 21 23:30:25 when your tests pass, depend on that version Jun 21 23:30:36 its a bitch rewritting your tests each update Jun 21 23:30:44 It is. Jun 21 23:31:49 i cant complain too much though, robotium, no matter how poor, is a life saver Jun 21 23:32:04 True. Jun 21 23:40:14 Hi. Does anyone have experience working with in-app billing? I'm getting some unhelpful errors. Jun 21 23:40:50 ok, so i know how to execute java from javascript in a webview, but how about the other way around? Jun 21 23:41:23 the code i inheritted is using loadUrl("javascript:..."); Jun 21 23:53:40 dunno if I'm just being daft or what Jun 21 23:53:57 but is it possible to always show the overflow menu, even if a device has a hardware menu button? Jun 21 23:54:16 using actionbarsherlock? Jun 21 23:54:37 nah (but if it can do it.. let me know?) Jun 21 23:54:48 I'm seeing a lot of apps that fake it Jun 21 23:54:59 i know it can do it for versions prior to ics Jun 21 23:55:08 I think because the rest of the menu is just so un-discoverable Jun 21 23:55:20 there's no real hint that there's more menu items Jun 21 23:55:28 there are more menu items rather Jun 21 23:56:19 why would you want it shown if there is no menu button Jun 21 23:56:35 either you have non-action items, or you dont Jun 21 23:56:54 no I want it shown even if there is a menu button Jun 21 23:57:09 wabz: No. don't. Jun 21 23:57:11 just don't. Jun 21 23:57:14 why would you even Jun 21 23:57:35 because say, 2 items fit in the action bar, and the rest go in overflow - fine Jun 21 23:57:39 but users just don't find them Jun 21 23:57:42 are there any pure ics devices with a menu button? Jun 21 23:57:48 they're less discoverable than they were pre-ICS? Jun 21 23:58:03 hmmmmm. Jun 21 23:58:04 yes, I think so, because there are items that are easily found in the action bar Jun 21 23:58:07 (sigh) Jun 21 23:58:34 and it's not obvious that there are more items to be found Jun 21 23:58:59 birbeck: yeah heaps? Jun 21 23:59:01 if they have a device with a menu button, they are used to the way it works Jun 21 23:59:28 yeah that's what samsung thinks Jun 21 23:59:37 but they've gone and confused everyone by keeping a menu button Jun 21 23:59:58 screw it, they can find it Jun 22 00:00:01 well, thats a software menu button for apps that dont support >= 14 Jun 22 00:00:03 Does anyone have experience working with in-app billing? I'm getting some unhelpful errors. Jun 22 00:00:12 if they can't, I can always reply in the comments for the app now ;) Jun 22 00:00:25 are you a 'top developer'? Jun 22 00:00:27 I was just wondering if I'd missed something Jun 22 00:00:31 yes Jun 22 00:00:37 lucky you Jun 22 00:00:44 well.. not for my personal apps, company, yes Jun 22 00:00:49 evening Jun 22 00:00:50 oh Jun 22 00:01:16 i had 2m downloads, 5*, 70% retention when they came out with that top developer badge Jun 22 00:01:52 If I have endless viewpaging, how do I indicate that I can go left or go right? Jun 22 00:01:53 what kinda apps you got birbeck? Jun 22 00:02:08 the apps that do have it are mostly shit, like instagram, etc Jun 22 00:02:12 is there a way to display a little bit of the left element and a little bit of the right element, and the center element takes up 90/80%? Jun 22 00:02:27 apps that crash often, dont follow ui guidelines, have poor ratings, etc Jun 22 00:02:49 Jabo: that app specifically was cover art downloader Jun 22 00:03:00 i also have a live wallpaper and mobile payment app Jun 22 00:03:01 wabz: well, the official guidance is that if an action is frequent, important, or typical Jun 22 00:03:02 then Jun 22 00:03:03 Jun 22 00:03:11 it shouldn't be in overflow; it should be on-screen. Jun 22 00:03:26 birbeck: nice, 2 million downloads on those? Jun 22 00:03:34 yep. That's what I've done - but the less important ones can still be useful but are much harder to find Jun 22 00:03:47 in practice people do seem to find the menus Jun 22 00:04:00 if that's your experience, that's good to hear Jun 22 00:04:05 at least, that's what i'm told re usability testing & tracking of the google apps on such devices Jun 22 00:04:20 cool thanks Jun 22 00:04:22 i can back up ctate Jun 22 00:04:33 at least older users that depended on it being there Jun 22 00:04:51 newer users dont look for it as often Jun 22 00:04:54 tbh, it's pretty frustrating to even me that these apps like pulse, news republic etc all fake an overflow menu Jun 22 00:05:28 I'm having trouble with a ScrollView which displays the items properly (and a scrollbar, briefly), but will not scroll down Jun 22 00:05:30 wabz, it was a good design pattern before it became a standard feature Jun 22 00:05:47 what happened to android:style/Widget.Holo.Light.Spinner.DropDown.ActionBar between android-11 and android-15? Jun 22 00:06:27 yes, it's an excellent design pattern, but it means that some apps have overflow and some have hardware button overflow Jun 22 00:07:26 if they stuck to the android design guidelines, we wouldn't see that Jun 22 00:07:41 and then they get top developer Jun 22 00:07:45 I'm getting "item not found" errors even though I've created and published an item? Jun 22 00:08:00 CheckSum: was it just submitted? Jun 22 00:08:04 Yes Jun 22 00:08:15 it can take some time to push to all the markets and mirrors Jun 22 00:08:24 hmm, ok. Like how long? Jun 22 00:08:40 Also, there's one that's been there for a day now. On that one I'm getting "the item you were attempting to purchase could not be found" Jun 22 00:09:32 oh, ListView in a ScrollView is illegal Jun 22 00:09:54 a ListView will automatically scroll Jun 22 00:10:07 yeah, just figured that out Jun 22 00:12:25 birbeck: do you know about "the item you were attempting to purchase could not be found"? Jun 22 00:13:33 Hi, good night. My name is Erick, from Brazil. Jun 22 00:13:59 CheckSum: that could be for a few reasons, but probably since you just published you need to wait Jun 22 00:14:12 How to change a theme on a Android APP without restart activity, is possible? Jun 22 00:15:36 birbeck: I'm getting that error on something I published yesterday. Jun 22 00:16:40 was it deleted? are you searching a different market? does the device meet the version and/or hardware/feature requirements? Jun 22 00:18:21 Yes, no, yes. Jun 22 00:18:37 When you upload a new APK (say you made some changes), do you just delete the old one and add the new one? Jun 22 00:18:44 Because I can't find a way to just "update". Jun 22 00:19:02 birbeck: See above. Sorry about not tagging. Jun 22 00:20:20 no, you dont delete anything Jun 22 00:20:28 you just upload the new apk Jun 22 00:21:26 if you select your app, there should be an update/upload apk option Jun 22 00:21:36 how you do it depends on if you have simple or advanced mode enabled Jun 22 00:23:16 Right Jun 22 00:23:21 The upload button is disabled. Jun 22 00:23:26 Unless I go to advanced and activate Jun 22 00:26:27 I really don´t see a option for apply a Theme on my app without activity restart! Jun 22 00:26:33 suggestions? Jun 22 00:31:34 anybody here? Jun 22 00:36:13 Tavindo: this is not possible. you pretty much have to restart the activity if you want the theme to change. Jun 22 00:36:57 why is this a problem? just relaunch the activity if you want the theme to change, seems simple enough Jun 22 00:38:05 Tavindo yea Jun 22 00:38:20 the ViewPager, is there any way for it to display part of the left item and part of the right item? Jun 22 00:40:27 !seen readme Jun 22 00:40:37 .seen readme Jun 22 00:40:47 ~seen readme Jun 22 00:46:02 I don't understand the Compat class from the support library. am I supposed to determine at runtime if the new classes are available and use the Compat versions if they're not, or just always use the Compat versions? Jun 22 00:46:25 if I'm supposed to always use Compat, why is it missing methods that the most recent classes have? Jun 22 00:48:26 also ActionBarCompat? Jun 22 00:48:36 alsu: * Jun 22 00:48:59 I'm specifically talking about NotificationCompat.Builder Jun 22 00:49:10 alsu: if its any indication, the iosched 20123 app uses actionbarsherlock, not ActionbarCompat Jun 22 00:49:16 um, 2012 :) Jun 22 00:49:41 hah Jun 22 00:50:53 10 points to JakeWharton Jun 22 00:51:06 that's far in the future Jun 22 00:51:14 and ActionBarCompat is a sample, not a library Jun 22 00:51:22 so nothing "uses ActionBarCompat" Jun 22 00:51:33 Anyway for a viewpager to show a preview of the next view? Jun 22 00:51:47 thinking of it as a library is idiotic Jun 22 00:51:48 so that i'm showing 3 items at once but 2 are clipped? Jun 22 00:52:11 no Jun 22 00:52:41 thanks Jun 22 00:52:44 i'll roll my own Jun 22 00:53:19 or just modify ViewPager Jun 22 00:54:21 Use the source, Luke. Jun 22 00:54:38 i was going to try and cheat Jun 22 00:54:48 and just clip in the main view but when you scroll it looks messed up Jun 22 00:56:49 JakeWharton: pedantic much with "uses" ? Jun 22 00:57:25 nope Jun 22 00:58:19 so much suck is present because people operate misconceptions about the usefulness of various Android components Jun 22 00:58:35 the perfect example is thinking of ActionBarCompat as a drop-in solution for anything Jun 22 00:59:01 well yeah, its an example. but you can "use" the technique. Jun 22 00:59:12 well no shit Jun 22 00:59:26 that's how ActionBarSherlock works Jun 22 01:00:22 * g00s yawns Jun 22 01:01:14 JakeWharton: to be fair, there's a stack overflow answer that paints ActionBarCompat and ABS as equals. I found out they weren't the hard way. Thanks for ABS! Jun 22 01:01:49 I need to agree there on the awesomeness of ABS, I was able to use it to get a great grade in one of my classes Jun 22 01:02:03 CheckSum: downvote! downvote! Jun 22 01:02:24 drpenguin: awesome. now you owe JakeWharton a cut of your future earnings! :D Jun 22 01:02:32 I'm just frustrated that people go down these paths with these misconceptions and it leads to worse apps. Jun 22 01:02:40 JakeWharton: TRUTH Jun 22 01:02:40 I just want nice apps. I don't care what libraries you use. Jun 22 01:02:42 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7844517/different-between-actionbarsherlock-and-action-bar-compatibility Jun 22 01:02:43 ctate: Huh? This was for a class! This isnt making me money >_> Jun 22 01:02:56 His first edit threw me off. Jun 22 01:03:02 passing classes -> getting a degree -> better job; failing classes -> dropping out -> crap jobs Jun 22 01:03:05 so you OWE him! Jun 22 01:03:28 ctate: but, whne I get my degree, I am most likely going to have a Job at HP which I had before I had the class where I used his ABS >_> Jun 22 01:03:37 and HP doesnt do anything with android ._. Jun 22 01:03:50 details, details. don't try to weasel out of your financial obligations! Jun 22 01:04:00 also, that'll be $350 for the advice i've just given you. Jun 22 01:04:02 pay up! Jun 22 01:04:02 @_@; can I just buy him a 6 pack? Jun 22 01:04:07 dafuq? Jun 22 01:04:11 i kid Jun 22 01:04:26 Meh. I already donated a few bucks to ABS, but if I could get this darn in-app billing working, I'd gladly donate more. It's really well done. Jun 22 01:04:34 i would think buying him a beer if you ever meet would be appropriate by way of appreciation Jun 22 01:04:48 And I totally would, his ABS is really awsome Jun 22 01:04:57 drpenguin: you got a better grade because you had an actionbar ? Jun 22 01:05:05 wtf ? Jun 22 01:05:18 g00s: I was able to design a better application because of it Jun 22 01:05:25 JakeWharton drink? Jun 22 01:05:31 evancharlton drink? Jun 22 01:05:45 I wrote 2 applications, first version was without ABS, second version was with it, professor was much more impressed with the one leveraging ABS Jun 22 01:11:19 i wrote a blog post on Square's blog about this Jun 22 01:11:26 i should add it to the stack overflow Q Jun 22 01:11:41 except you're not supposed to link to things Jun 22 01:12:49 JakeWharton: do you have paypal? want to send you some dollars for your ABS! Jun 22 01:13:04 ABS? plastic? Jun 22 01:13:14 XXCoder: ActionBarSherlock Jun 22 01:13:17 JakeWharton: "misconceptions" - I'd like to know more about this Jun 22 01:13:30 there's a donate button on the website, but I prefer that you write a good app that i'll use and send me a link to it Jun 22 01:13:33 ( http://actionbarsherlock.com/ ) Jun 22 01:13:37 E.g., the misconception that ActionBarCompat is a drop-in like ABS, if I understand the current discussion right Jun 22 01:13:43 the best donation is the one i'll use every day on my phone Jun 22 01:14:01 billjings: the misconception that ActionBarCompat is more than *sample code* Jun 22 01:14:06 ^ Jun 22 01:14:38 That it's not fit for production, and people think that it is? Jun 22 01:14:59 ActionBarCompat shows you how to write something that works with the native API and a custom View depending on the version Jun 22 01:15:08 it doesn't implement a large feature set, it's not a reusable library Jun 22 01:15:12 Anyone know Tom Dignan? I need contact him ASAP. Jun 22 01:15:32 But people use it because they're looking through the docs for a solution, and it looks like it might be one Jun 22 01:15:46 Has anyone worked with in-app billing and can give me some help? I've been trying to get it working for hours. Jun 22 01:15:47 guy: he's traveling i believe Jun 22 01:15:56 traveling where Jun 22 01:16:02 none of your business Jun 22 01:16:10 JakeWharton: working on one currently. almost ready. if you like taking/storing/sharing pictures, you might like it.. but still taking a week. Jun 22 01:16:21 JakeWharton: sending you a small amount anyway ;-) Jun 22 01:16:53 g00s: he works for me and he is in danger of getting in a big problem, so kinda is. Jun 22 01:17:25 guy: random "guy" on net says he's a person's boss and you're expecting detailed information on him? Jun 22 01:17:30 guy: thats all i can mention; i gave you enough information so you know he's not ignoring you Jun 22 01:17:43 interesting Jun 22 01:17:52 just read up on ActionBarSherlock Jun 22 01:17:56 so... who's tom dignan? Jun 22 01:18:03 g00s: well, just got an email from him. Jun 22 01:18:15 JakeWharton: since i can't meet for a beer, i hope this is enough for a beer :). if you ever come to tokyo, i would like to meet and pay you a beer in person :) Jun 22 01:18:22 wabz: someone who didn't give contact information to his boss it seems ;) Jun 22 01:19:15 Well, I'm interested in laying out a clear path for Android dev, so that makes me pretty interested in common misconceptions, too Jun 22 01:19:29 Or just… lack of understanding Jun 22 01:20:31 lack of understanding is basically why this channel *exists* Jun 22 01:20:38 pboos: haha well hopefully someday i'll be able to make it but I appreciate it. thank you Jun 22 01:20:39 :) Jun 22 01:22:06 there's a lot out there not to understand! Jun 22 01:23:36 there are the understood misunderstandings, that we understand that we dont understand, and then there are the misunderstood misunderstandings, the ones we don't understand that we don't understand Jun 22 01:23:39 do bugs on http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/ just not get looked at if there's not enough stars? Jun 22 01:25:34 the number of stars/followers basically has no impact Jun 22 01:25:42 cool :p Jun 22 01:27:27 ctate: does stars mean anything then :P ? Jun 22 01:27:50 i imagine they might mean something on (some) other projects using code.google.com Jun 22 01:27:57 is it like the button on traffic lights that you push , hoping something happens quicker ? Jun 22 01:28:02 heh Jun 22 01:29:18 woohoo, the minor doc bug I reported, what, 18 months ago - still there! Jun 22 01:29:48 http://pastebin.com/GqTsd87H Jun 22 01:29:56 what would you expect that progressdialog to look like? Jun 22 01:30:24 I'm getting an indeterminate spinner Jun 22 01:31:54 apparently integer array resources are still contained in a tag Jun 22 01:33:07 wabz: you don't want to pass the style as the theme argument Jun 22 01:33:47 right.. thanks Jun 22 01:33:47 setProgressStyle(ProgressStyle.STYLE_HORIZONTAL); Jun 22 01:34:41 how come it's always the stupid that stump me :p Jun 22 01:35:33 so View.setPadding() is in px, not in dp? Jun 22 01:35:49 birbeck: all the api functions are in px i think Jun 22 01:36:06 (unless otherwise specified) Jun 22 01:36:19 protip: define your layouts in xml :) Jun 22 01:36:31 ctate, yeah i wish that were possible Jun 22 01:36:56 this is an sdk... until adt supports binary library projects it has to be in java Jun 22 01:37:19 cant depend on target apps to specify the correct resources Jun 22 01:37:58 waugh Jun 22 01:38:09 good luck sir Jun 22 01:38:12 i just got handed this project to fix many bugs, ive never dont much view stuff in code, unless it was canvas Jun 22 01:38:29 i use xml to avoid this crap Jun 22 01:39:54 i just want to go home and ride my new motorcycle Jun 22 01:40:10 new bike? what'd you get? Jun 22 01:40:40 well new to me, its my first... a 02 Yamaha yzf600r Jun 22 01:40:47 birbeck: use Ant tasks to add preprocessing? Jun 22 01:41:10 birbeck: ahhh nice, i think chicks on bikes are hot Jun 22 01:41:18 hehe Jun 22 01:41:47 p_l, thats an idea, right now i just need to get the bugs fixed though Jun 22 01:42:07 hi Jun 22 01:42:08 bankai_: do man bewbs turn you on? Jun 22 01:42:15 how do i become an android developer? Jun 22 01:42:36 Nosophorus: you download the SDK and start writing code Jun 22 01:42:38 Nosophorus: http://d.android.com/ Jun 22 01:42:43 Nosophorus: anyone can do it, but if you want to become a hardcore one, you have to ask permission Jun 22 01:43:19 you need to register and pay a $25 one-off fee if you want to publish on the Play Store (silly name), but you don't need to pay or register or anything like that to start coding Jun 22 01:43:20 birbeck: thanks! let me see it! Jun 22 01:43:38 is it possible to make a living by developing for android? Jun 22 01:43:52 possible? yes. probable ? Jun 22 01:43:57 if you work for someone, more probable Jun 22 01:44:07 for example? Jun 22 01:44:19 if you are an agency who gets paid to make other company's apps, super probable Jun 22 01:44:25 working for a mobile development shop Jun 22 01:44:27 oh, i got it Jun 22 01:44:35 i'm on ubuntu, does that sdk work on it? Jun 22 01:44:36 Nosophorus: unless you are very good or very lucky, you won't make a living selling your own apps Jun 22 01:44:39 Nosophorus: defnitely possible, especially if you're developer for hire or some kind of consulting/appdev company (the kind that creates apps for other companies, that is) Jun 22 01:44:55 Nosophorus: yes, SDK will work on ubanto Jun 22 01:44:59 if you try to build an app on your own and release it, you need to be lucky and make a really good application to be able to make a living with it. possible, but not probable Jun 22 01:45:06 we get quoted around $150k for medium complexity android tablet+phone apps Jun 22 01:45:13 aud Jun 22 01:45:14 p_l: i never tried ubanto :) Jun 22 01:45:21 wabz: daamn, that's nice Jun 22 01:45:35 150k? Jun 22 01:45:41 well no - this is if we want to outsource a project and we go asking for quotes Jun 22 01:45:44 that's very high Jun 22 01:45:45 150k canadian acorns ? Jun 22 01:45:54 150k lituanian nails ? Jun 22 01:46:02 *lithuanian Jun 22 01:46:03 I said australian dollars! Jun 22 01:46:05 hehe Jun 22 01:46:13 oh, missed that. nice ! Jun 22 01:46:18 hah. i get 200k a month for programming android Jun 22 01:46:28 i intended to develop for iOS, but in order to do that, it's necessary to buy a Mac and I don't have the money to do so Jun 22 01:46:32 rupees? Jun 22 01:46:36 eSatsu: in Yen ;) Jun 22 01:46:42 Vietnamese Dong Jun 22 01:46:46 shush :( Jun 22 01:46:48 hehehehe Jun 22 01:46:55 thats lots of Dong 9.9 Jun 22 01:47:00 the guys speaking about shitty currencies Jun 22 01:47:02 hehehehe Jun 22 01:47:04 g00s: 20k dong to 1USD Jun 22 01:47:25 I'm going to Vietnam in a couple of weeks, and the prices are so confusing :) Jun 22 01:47:25 does onWindowFocusCHanged(true) guarantee that *something* will be visible to the user? Jun 22 01:47:25 er, do you really need a mac to dev for iOS Jun 22 01:47:31 i.e. that activity will have begun to be shown? Jun 22 01:47:43 i guess being successful with your own apps depends on the quality of life you expect Jun 22 01:47:56 eSatsu: yes. (legally). You can always run OSX in VMware Jun 22 01:48:13 eSatsu: as far as i know, yes; the iOS SDK is OSX-only Jun 22 01:48:16 wow, didnt know. Jun 22 01:48:26 i was making more last year off 2 (donate) apps than i was from my last job Jun 22 01:48:51 now my app income is 1/4 what it was, and my new job pays 4x as much Jun 22 01:48:55 birbeck: crappy job? Jun 22 01:48:56 there are some tools like UDK where you can deploy straight to a device without a mac, but in the end you need a mac to submit the .ipa Jun 22 01:49:04 Leeds: or good app Jun 22 01:49:06 Nosophorus: it might pay more if you make apps that aren't bringing revenue by themselves, but are just a way to access some service you offer Jun 22 01:49:15 birbeck: the starbucks app, right ? Jun 22 01:49:19 Leeds: g00s: a bit of both Jun 22 01:49:21 yes Jun 22 01:49:22 well screw ios then! Jun 22 01:49:23 p_l: oh, i got it Jun 22 01:49:46 g00s: though that wasnt what brought in the most Jun 22 01:50:10 talking about making a living out of app development, it brings to my mind this old school stuff: http://groups.google.com/group/net.micro/browse_thread/thread/eb1a0c7d664d61b4/b81616b2fdfa6e28?hl=en&q=&fwc=2 Jun 22 01:50:16 poor girl. . . Jun 22 01:50:20 thats what people know me for, but thats not my most popular or highest grossing Jun 22 01:51:19 she bought an Apple Lisa for 7k dollars and could do nothing at all with it Jun 22 01:51:34 thats apple for you Jun 22 01:51:38 nothings changed Jun 22 01:51:45 Nosophorus: she should have gotten a Commodore Pet Jun 22 01:52:04 g00s: Richard Feynman had one Commodore PET Jun 22 01:52:23 g00s: in 1984? I think I'd rather go for a Sun Jun 22 01:52:26 i used a trs 80 and c64 Jun 22 01:52:38 Not sure when Amiga was out, might have been available by that time Jun 22 01:52:44 g00s: was there a C compiler fo C64? Jun 22 01:52:56 hmm … don't recall. i programmed in 6502 Jun 22 01:53:06 assembly Jun 22 01:53:28 oh, 6510 i guess Jun 22 01:53:28 I learnt assembly on 6502... but on the glorious Atari ;) Jun 22 01:53:56 6510 has same isa as 6502 i guess Jun 22 01:54:04 mostly Jun 22 01:54:14 same official instruction set, different undocumented behaviors Jun 22 01:54:15 the good old days when you could solder this crap yourself with a $10 iron from radio shack :) Jun 22 01:54:19 different performance profile Jun 22 01:54:28 there was no C64 C compiler at the time Jun 22 01:54:28 alright im out Jun 22 01:54:44 there was a pcode pascal thing with a limited library Jun 22 01:54:53 i learnt assembly on a 8051 Jun 22 01:54:59 i also did z80 :P Jun 22 01:55:05 great microcontroller Jun 22 01:55:11 g00s: me too Jun 22 01:55:14 and z280 :) Jun 22 01:55:18 z80 is great Jun 22 01:55:29 8051? teenybopper :) Jun 22 01:55:33 yeah, z80 was my first asm Jun 22 01:55:37 yeah, 8051 and 68k too Jun 22 01:55:37 ctate: why? Jun 22 01:55:40 then 6502/6510 Jun 22 01:55:53 Nosophorus: because the 8051 wasn't invented until 1980 Jun 22 01:55:55 ctate: what's the problem with an 8051? Jun 22 01:56:05 and 68hc11 Jun 22 01:56:07 oh, no problem with it; just that it postdates the others Jun 22 01:56:11 ctate: i was not around in 1980 Jun 22 01:56:33 * ctate 's first computer was a Sinclair ZX81, in 1980 Jun 22 01:56:43 ctate: today's teens learn those FPGA stuffs and system-on-a-chip hype Jun 22 01:56:49 yeah, it's a different world Jun 22 01:56:52 Arduinos and shit Jun 22 01:56:55 crazy! Jun 22 01:56:58 today's teens learn how to use Word Jun 22 01:56:58 yeah Jun 22 01:57:06 a Raspberry Pi costs how much? Jun 22 01:57:11 25 dollars Jun 22 01:57:13 $35 Jun 22 01:57:16 good grief Jun 22 01:57:16 for a model B Jun 22 01:57:23 the zx81 was legendary for how cheap it was Jun 22 01:57:32 Hi guys, I'm having a little issue with my ActionMenu. I'm trying to add an item that is a "start/stop" button. I want it to display start when stopped, and stop when started, and optionally "stopping" in between. Jun 22 01:57:36 we got the *kit*, had to solder the board ourselves, for $100 Jun 22 01:57:45 i remember in high school, being able to talk directly to a zilog engineer. they showered me with books and parts. very fun times. Jun 22 01:57:50 ctate: we tried to make an atmospheric balloon using only z80 and 8051 Jun 22 01:57:58 ctate: but it failed Jun 22 01:57:59 ctate: im waiting on VIA's APC Jun 22 01:58:04 $100 in 1980 is over $260 in today's money Jun 22 01:58:05 just a pity they're making the raspberry pis at a rate of about 15 a month Jun 22 01:58:07 but It's doing strange stuff instead. Is there a good simple guide on what exactly to do to make this happen? I've tried changing text, and I've tried using enabled/disabled buttons. Jun 22 01:58:22 so, ten times the cost of a raspberry pi Jun 22 01:58:27 and WAY less capable Jun 22 01:58:36 yeah Jun 22 01:58:47 ctate: the cost of doing custom stuff w/ professional quality is way way down now too Jun 22 01:58:47 g00s: in poland we had a series of books which basically described Atari 800/65XE/130XE in enough detail to make a cycle-accurate emulator Jun 22 01:58:52 oh yeah Jun 22 01:59:00 it's a different world now Jun 22 01:59:18 including full source code for ATARI OS in macroassembler, with examples like "let's write a device driver for a custom device" Jun 22 01:59:32 hehehehe Jun 22 01:59:44 I'm running 4-layer custom boards at like... $8 a board and doing laser-cut solder masks for $25, in ~100 quantities Jun 22 01:59:52 that's just absurd Jun 22 01:59:57 p_l: stuff was so simple then … i soldered together my own single board computer with z80 and ttl stuff Jun 22 01:59:58 today it would be : "Let's using Java Swing stuffs and so on. .. " Jun 22 02:00:14 aughghghgghh swing no no no no run awayaaayyyyyyy Jun 22 02:00:43 dragorn: yeah it's just awesome how cheap even medium-end fab has gotten Jun 22 02:00:50 JOptionPaneShowMessageDialog Jun 22 02:00:54 g00s: I have a long-term plan to build a reconfigurable computer with FPGA for CPU, then implement MMIX 1.0 in the FPGA and build a complete "proper* workstation :) Jun 22 02:00:55 and 3d printers are gonna step it way up soon Jun 22 02:00:56 what the fuck is that! Jun 22 02:01:12 ctate: yeah, that will be a revolution Jun 22 02:01:20 ctate: yeah; i'm looking at some full fab stuff and even that is insanely cheap Jun 22 02:01:20 definitely Jun 22 02:01:23 then we will have some MPAA like body claiming copyrights on plans Jun 22 02:01:32 how close are they to being able to print circuit boards from those things? Jun 22 02:01:33 tere will always be some ass impeding innovation Jun 22 02:01:35 ctate: and I was talking to someone who wants to start a prototype-quantity pick and place Jun 22 02:01:47 drpenguin: not especially close because of the material requirements Jun 22 02:01:51 g00s: new devices which impede asses? Jun 22 02:01:51 you can't just print them out of random plastic Jun 22 02:01:59 Leeds: that too Jun 22 02:02:02 g00s: plans are copyrighted. what you need to fear is the copyright breaching called DRM Jun 22 02:02:09 ctate: oh yeah I know, I was just curious how close theyve gotten Jun 22 02:02:17 afaik not very close Jun 22 02:02:22 solids, sure Jun 22 02:02:32 with the resolution rising fast Jun 22 02:02:34 drpenguin: traditional PCB fab is so cheap I'm not even sure it's worth trying to do it with 3d printers Jun 22 02:02:37 but not mixed Jun 22 02:02:43 i think there will be a market to selling plans you can print. instead of selling the good itself. there will be some kind of IP mess there Jun 22 02:03:07 your plan for a fork looks like my fork Jun 22 02:03:13 sue! Jun 22 02:03:26 g00s: physical designs are already IP; cf the Apple/Samsung case in Europe Jun 22 02:03:52 "its not a fork, its a very small trident" Jun 22 02:03:57 hehe Jun 22 02:04:25 you have a patent for four pronged fork and are collecting royalties? Well I have a ptent for a multi pronged fork, I need some of your royalties too Jun 22 02:04:54 Never mind. I found one HORRIBLE error. I had been using R.id.stop instead of R.string.stop to set the label. However, I have a new problem. Even though in my "Start()" routine I change the variable that affects the labeling in onPrepareOptionsMenu(), and then call invalidate, the menu isn't updated on screen. I'm forced to press the menu button several times before the menu appears properly. Jun 22 02:05:01 i remember as a kid dumpster diving , after riding my 10 speed to this industrial park to pull out all the busted computers; taking out their PCB's, taking this stuff home, pulling the parts, binning, and building :) Jun 22 02:05:26 i'm sure i looked weird riding my 10 speed with a bunch of busted computer stuff in hand Jun 22 02:05:30 ctate: it'll be interesting to see if 3d printing can get good enough to do more than one-off case design, etc Jun 22 02:05:48 dragorn: i totally expect it to get *seriously* good within the next 5 years Jun 22 02:06:05 ctate: well, it's pretty good now, just not at the consumer level Jun 22 02:06:08 good enough to be transformative Jun 22 02:06:09 right Jun 22 02:06:13 IMO it's on the cusp Jun 22 02:06:16 i think there are decent printers under 1k usd already Jun 22 02:06:24 (charlie stross has written a bunch about this, too) Jun 22 02:06:32 (you DO know who charlie stross is, right?) Jun 22 02:06:40 yup Jun 22 02:06:49 * g00s googles Jun 22 02:07:00 he's IMO even more interesting as an observer of technology and near-futurism than as an SF writer Jun 22 02:07:01 ctate: 2 weeks for the next laundry book :) Jun 22 02:07:07 Charlie Stross? yeah, he used to be a technical writer at SCO Jun 22 02:07:11 yeah i got the amazon email about it :) Jun 22 02:07:24 g00s: one of hte more prominent current SF writers Jun 22 02:07:50 especially focused on near-future, posthuman/singularity type stuff Jun 22 02:08:11 so is he a futurist like kurzweil ? Jun 22 02:08:21 g00s: less crazy Jun 22 02:08:24 no, he's an SF writer Jun 22 02:08:30 Kurzweil went off the deep end years ago Jun 22 02:08:39 Stross is -- to my eye -- quite an acute observer Jun 22 02:08:40 http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/index.html Jun 22 02:08:46 that's his blog; well worth following Jun 22 02:08:47 you would too if you took $200 in supplements every day :) Jun 22 02:09:20 funny thing is, he's probably poisoned himself since the supplement industry is always having quality issues Jun 22 02:09:30 http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/06/how_i_got_here_in_the_end_part_3.html Jun 22 02:11:40 there is a long time between when onWIndowFocusChanged(true) is called and the activity is actually displayed on my screen. Any tips as to what might be taking so long here? I'm not really sure what it wouldbe doing Jun 22 02:14:47 hmm I think one of these views (not a built in view) is just being retarded Jun 22 02:15:18 is your device cramped for ram? Jun 22 02:15:28 nope. It's actually a view done by Samsung Jun 22 02:15:38 it's blocking the UI as it initialises Jun 22 02:18:38 hm, would there be any problems in casting context as activity in order to startactivityforresult in another class (playing around with this actionbar library) Jun 22 02:19:09 I was wondering if anyone knew weather or not the fact that android cant record from two cameras at once is a kernel issue? Jun 22 02:19:49 eSatsu: you mean you want to take a Context which isn't an Activity, cast it to Activity, then call startActivityForResult on it? Jun 22 02:21:06 the code is context.startactivity etc but i want to use startactivityforresult instead Jun 22 02:21:11 eSatsu: if it really is an Activity context, then sure (but having to cast suggests that you're playing fast and loose with your encapsulation design and/or information passing) Jun 22 02:21:22 eSatsu: where is that Context coming from? Jun 22 02:21:34 its coming from the mainactivity, it is an activity Jun 22 02:26:52 the results should be delivered to the actual activity holding the context right? Jun 22 02:44:15 whoa, the new d.android.com site looks nice Jun 22 02:45:40 ah, maybe thats why it looks weird, i don't have Roboto on my system Jun 22 02:45:48 but that should not matter, right ? Jun 22 02:45:56 webfonts, etc Jun 22 02:46:18 g00s: well I can try it.. my phone doesnt have roboto either Jun 22 02:46:48 it falls back to sans serif; for some reason on my mac it doesn't look right Jun 22 02:47:17 it looks fine on my atrix2 and fedora linux box Jun 22 02:47:36 domo arigato mister roboto Jun 22 02:47:43 oh cool, the i/o videos are going to be streamed live Jun 22 02:47:48 not just the keynote Jun 22 02:48:07 yea Jun 22 02:48:17 i think last year a few were lvie Jun 22 02:48:25 good for poor bastards like me who can't get there Jun 22 02:48:44 heh Jun 22 02:48:54 money isnt even an issue really Jun 22 02:48:58 last year igot $1500 in free shit Jun 22 02:49:06 and i know people who got more (attneding the right sessions) Jun 22 02:49:11 if you sell all that, you can pay for everything Jun 22 02:49:24 id love to go to one of those i/o events Jun 22 02:49:31 the extended ones? Jun 22 02:49:34 or the real thing Jun 22 02:50:45 the real thing I suppose Jun 22 02:51:41 its always fun Jun 22 02:51:59 you can go bug ctate for help in person! Jun 22 02:52:12 Im sure hed punch me in the face Jun 22 02:52:16 LOL Jun 22 02:52:18 no? Jun 22 02:52:31 No he would, because if I went to I/O, I would nerd the f out Jun 22 02:52:45 yea cause like Jun 22 02:52:50 you'd be the only nerd there Jun 22 02:53:04 I love google, if it werent for having a job possibility at HP, id try so hard to get a job with google on android Jun 22 02:53:49 you know you can apply to two jobs, right? :P Jun 22 02:54:20 Yeah, but my boss has told me once I graduate I pretty much have the job at HP Jun 22 02:55:10 and if you apply to google and dont get a job, the HP job will still be there Jun 22 02:55:17 Oh I know :P Jun 22 02:55:44 Can't get frkkin settings button to show for livewallpaper Jun 22 02:55:55 Not seeing any errors or warnings, been over the xmls 100 times Jun 22 02:56:18 But if I applied to google and got the job, id still stay with HP Jun 22 02:56:20 hey what does: Exception building cordova JS globals: ReferenceError: org is not defined for key "exec" mean? Jun 22 02:56:20 I love what I do there Jun 22 02:56:34 im justsaying if I didnt have the job with HP, google would be my next job to try Jun 22 02:56:40 oh Jun 22 02:56:44 fair enough Jun 22 02:56:54 i dont know what id do Jun 22 02:56:57 i like what i do Jun 22 02:56:59 but google is google Jun 22 02:57:46 canadiancow: find a company, not a job Jun 22 02:57:54 wat Jun 22 02:57:56 no Jun 22 02:58:00 thats the opposite of what i'd want Jun 22 02:58:08 there are tons of shitty positions in most companies Jun 22 02:58:11 thats not the opposite of what i mean :) Jun 22 02:58:12 but also some awesome ones Jun 22 02:58:41 what i mean is, think long term career - work for the company that agrees with your vision , philosophy, etc Jun 22 02:58:43 You want a combination of both Jun 22 02:58:52 oh...i suppose Jun 22 02:58:52 You can find a crappy company with a good job Jun 22 02:58:55 and vice vers Jun 22 02:58:56 a Jun 22 02:59:11 well yeah, you need to find the intersection of (1) what you like (2) what you are good at and (3) what you can be paid to do Jun 22 02:59:22 android, android, android? Jun 22 02:59:23 :) Jun 22 02:59:28 easy intersection! Jun 22 02:59:36 canadiancow: thats a null set for you :P Jun 22 02:59:54 your face is null :( Jun 22 02:59:56 hehe **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 22 02:59:59 2012