**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 19 03:00:01 2012 Aug 19 03:11:24 is there a way to set an alignment for a column in a tableLayout, or do you just put the gravity:right for every cell in that column? Aug 19 04:33:38 With FragmentActivities, when the device is rotated, is the current activity destroyed and recreated? Aug 19 05:37:16 hi, is there a way to save all EditText values in a activity (to file/sharepreference, ...) automatically? Aug 19 05:38:21 I'm thinking of coding a function that loop through all the view in an activity recursively and do the value-saving job. Howerver I wonder if there's a faster way? Aug 19 05:48:04 Anyone here start android development recently with limited to no programming experience but now you're at a comfortable level? Aug 19 05:49:37 I'm curious about the path taken from no knowledge to journeyman Aug 19 06:22:50 DeckerN7, I knew no Java until mid-2009 Aug 19 06:23:13 My first Android app was in Spring 2011. Aug 19 06:23:46 I don't know what you mean by comfortable level exactly Aug 19 07:11:30 Hrm Aug 19 07:32:06 DeckerN7: if you don't know how to program at all, there's a learning curve ahead of you Aug 19 07:58:45 hey People Aug 19 07:59:44 I've a question on IntentService and messagers Aug 19 07:59:50 hmm, so I can't easily get the View by it's name set in android:id Aug 19 08:00:16 does anybody have a good tutorial for actionbar tabs ? Aug 19 08:05:06 Sri19: ActionbarSherlock demo code should help you Aug 19 08:05:26 in ./sdk/samples ? Aug 19 08:05:41 btw.. I've heard ViewPagers are the hip thing now.. Aug 19 08:05:55 hmm got link? Aug 19 08:06:04 Sri19: I would recommend not to use native actionbar but use Jack Warton's ActionBarSherlock Aug 19 08:06:29 that would make you're life easier Aug 19 08:06:34 okie Aug 19 08:08:40 thanks hemanshu .. looks good! Aug 19 09:26:59 Hi friends, Is there a way to replicate the animation in a tablelayout similar to iphone UItableviewRowAnimation ? Any sample code or pointers will be helpful Aug 19 09:42:19 Where can I get my hand on the default icons from android so I can copy them and add them to my drawable folder? Aug 19 09:43:07 johanhar: they are in your sdk/platforms/x/data dir Aug 19 09:43:40 Thanks Aug 19 09:45:08 Also found something here http://androiddrawables.com/menu.html Aug 19 09:46:16 The three dotted vertical line for actionbars in holo is not a default icon, is it? Aug 19 09:46:27 The one you use for showing a drop-down menu Aug 19 09:46:30 not sure. i still use froyo Aug 19 09:46:58 Ok Aug 19 09:53:15 Hello everyone. I want to ask the following: is it possible to use the laptops/pc headset to answer a gsm call from an android phone? what kind of libraries should be used? I would like to develop software for this purpose Aug 19 09:56:28 could imagine that if PC faked beinga bluetooth headset, it might be possible Aug 19 09:59:00 alankila: what if i want to do it over wifi? Aug 19 09:59:07 * alankila shrugs Aug 19 09:59:52 I don't know anything about it, but I'm not aware of any existing solutions that would allow phonecalls over wi-fi. Aug 19 09:59:54 alankila: :-) Aug 19 10:00:16 whereas bluetooth headsets can be bought from the shop today and they presumably work. I've never used one, though. Aug 19 10:11:07 Hi friends, Is there a way to replicate the animation in a tablelayout similar to iphone UItableviewRowAnimation ? Any sample code or pointers will be helpful Aug 19 10:59:00 hi Aug 19 11:02:09 does anyone know how to combine publisher search with a custom string search ? Something like http://play.google.com/store/search?q=pub:publisher+search_string Aug 19 11:02:54 for example if I wanted to show all wallpapers by publisher: http://play.google.com/store/search?q=pub:publisher+wallpaper Aug 19 11:08:50 i want to get an orientation independent rotation value of the z axis. my idea is to store the last orientation, compare with the current orientation to get compute the rotation, store the current orientation as the last orientation for the next cycle. would this work or is there any better way? Aug 19 11:13:03 is onDestroy() of a service called from the main/ui thread? Aug 19 11:56:03 how can I determine whether mobile data setting is enabled or not? Aug 19 12:03:32 anyone there? :) Aug 19 12:13:30 ansgram do you mean, whether the mobile is connected to internet? Aug 19 12:15:36 no, i mean if just the data setting is enabled. Aug 19 12:16:29 I want to annoy the user, if his data isn't enabled. It's no app for the market, so I hope you don't get me wrong with potential malicous issues. Aug 19 12:17:57 I found NetworkInfo.isConnectedOrConnecting() but I'm not sure if this is enough to know if data is enabled by settings Aug 19 12:19:06 unfortunately I didn't find anything in Settings.System or Settings.Secure that might help me. Aug 19 12:23:09 hmm...afaik if there is no network is connected the networkinfo object is null Aug 19 12:26:13 hm, unfortunately that doesn't match my need Aug 19 12:27:18 in Settings.Secure there is a constant DATA_ROAMING to determine whether data roaming is enabled. I need just that for "normal" mobile data Aug 19 12:27:30 but thank you for your help! Aug 19 12:31:42 i have a relative layout made via the xml editor (the default one)… the rest of my layout is done via code… i don't know how to reference the main layout to add my views to it Aug 19 12:33:35 i think i just made this harder than it is :P Aug 19 12:33:53 ultra-: give it an ID, look it up by the ID Aug 19 12:34:05 not this? RelativeLayout main_layout = (RelativeLayout) findViewById(R.layout.activity_main); Aug 19 12:34:13 ansgram i found something similar here http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3644144/how-to-disable-mobile-data-on-android Aug 19 12:34:30 i gotta read up on the id stuff (new to android)… i don't like the xml editor and i want everything done via code Aug 19 12:34:41 R.id.main_layout Aug 19 12:35:15 shockingly, findViewById takes an ID resource... Aug 19 12:36:14 how is the 'xml editor' any different from any other editor Aug 19 12:36:40 i'm saying i just want to make my layout via code Aug 19 12:37:03 xml is code too :p Aug 19 12:37:09 java :P Aug 19 12:37:52 Why have you guys kept ResultReceivers secret from me? They're amazing Aug 19 12:38:29 crap. he found out Aug 19 12:38:47 so i make an xml file id.xml in res/values first? Aug 19 12:38:54 :) Aug 19 12:39:07 no, you give the layout an android:id attribute Aug 19 12:39:34 but i thought ultra- didn't want to use xml Aug 19 12:39:54 When he wants his apps to be any good, he'll have to Aug 19 12:40:03 why's that? Aug 19 12:40:05 that's a different issue Aug 19 12:40:54 Different layouts, for different configurations Aug 19 12:41:09 yulzy: i'm just attaching my own stuff to the default relative layout Aug 19 12:41:24 ultra may be you need to make a relative layout object, populate it with buttons, spinners..etc and call setcontentview with the relative layout object Aug 19 12:43:12 i've managed to make my own custom view for 2d scrolling, snap, etc exactly the way i want it… i'm understanding doing this via code a lot better than referencing the things created via xml Aug 19 12:43:50 kapilratnani: already found that. they are assuming, that mobile data is enabled when it's connected. but if there is just no network in range, I have no reason to notify the user about mobile data were disabled Aug 19 12:44:18 ultra-: why would it be better? Aug 19 12:44:50 doing the layout via java instead of xml? Aug 19 12:45:01 yes Aug 19 12:45:26 because there's still a lot of modification going on in my code, actually adding the views isn't much more code and puts it in the same context as everything else… it's right there in front of me Aug 19 12:46:35 i think they're probably equivalent… for me, i understand this way better Aug 19 12:47:11 except for referencing the xml created relative layout… android:id="@id/main_layout" gives me an error Aug 19 12:47:35 @+id if you need to create a new id Aug 19 12:49:14 thanks :) Aug 19 12:53:01 ansgram ok, if no network is connected then the network info object will be null and if a network is connected. then you can use telephonymanager class to getDataState Aug 19 12:53:20 ansgram then if there is a network and data is disabled then getDataState in TelephonyManager will give you DATA_DISCONNECTED Aug 19 12:55:49 kapilratnani thank you, that sounds right. Will try. Aug 19 13:14:54 why does topMargin for layout params seem to do nothing? Aug 19 13:36:11 guys, what good calendar lib would u recommend, i want one that can show events and look neat Aug 19 13:36:18 looks* Aug 19 13:44:10 Hi Aug 19 13:45:15 I add some log in PowerManagerService.java, and use "make framework" to build framework, but no effect. Aug 19 13:45:57 What should I do to see the log I added in PowerManagerService? Aug 19 13:46:09 Is there anyway to access "getResources" in a class that has no views or anything of the sort? Aug 19 13:48:21 well i think i got a work around so nvm :P Aug 19 13:52:14 Hello, I have a EditText in my layout, always when I start the activity, it jumps in this field. Can I disable this? Aug 19 13:53:05 sukramTM, yep, keyword: focus Aug 19 13:56:17 sukramTM, dunno if there's a nicer solution, but this works: http://www.helloandroid.com/tutorials/remove-autofocus-edittext-android Aug 19 13:57:00 I just found solutions with LinearLayout with 0 width and hight, and set focus on this, is it not possible to set nofokus to the EditText? Aug 19 13:57:46 sukramTM, you can focus something else instead Aug 19 13:58:06 but i don't now a way to don't focus anything Aug 19 14:07:02 my screen is entirely a grid of buttons… how can i register ACTION_DOWN without having to register it with the button? Aug 19 14:07:14 the main scrollview doesn't register it b/c the button is Aug 19 14:15:55 can I force the same mechanism for overflow used on devices with no menu-button (talking about the actionbar and actions) Aug 19 14:16:53 I did this, "48 x 48 px, 32 x 32 px and 24 x 24 pxand place them in drawable-hdpi, drawable-mdpi and drawable-ldpi" yet I still get the icons in the tabs overlapping some of the text Aug 19 14:17:01 I'm on Galaxy S3.. Aug 19 14:19:14 johanhar: please elaborate a bit Aug 19 14:21:55 I have done no android development but lots (10 years?) of java and I'm wondering whether the integraiton hooks exist for an app I want to write. Aug 19 14:22:19 The problem is simple - I belong to a volunteer SAR organisation and we get called out via text message Aug 19 14:22:37 and since I rarely get offers for sex by SMS in the middle of the night, I've simply trained myself to sleep through them. Aug 19 14:23:45 Can an app be notified when texts arrive, see if it is from a particular number (112, 118, 911 depending on location) and then ignore all mute or volume settings and make sure that I wake up? Aug 19 14:24:15 pretty much yes, AFAIK Aug 19 14:24:41 (incidentally, what's SAR? I'm assuming it's not Special Administrative Region, which is what it means around here) Aug 19 14:25:16 hmm...search and rescue, i think Aug 19 14:25:57 Leeds: Search And Rescue Aug 19 14:26:32 The most important feature of the app would be the 'Mute until morning' button :) Aug 19 14:26:48 Leeds: SAR's foremost expansion is Search and Rescue, even in Special Administrative Regions ;) Aug 19 14:26:55 Leeds: ok, thanks. That means I'll keep looking into it. Aug 19 14:26:56 argh, I even removed the hdpi icons and it's still too large Aug 19 14:27:24 http://files.sharenator.com/picard_WTF_is_this_shit-s300x266-70964-580.jpg Aug 19 14:27:30 Logi: I think you can get it done with Tasker, and of course with custom app Aug 19 14:28:09 p_l: looking at tasker Aug 19 14:29:30 p_l: Tasker looks like a brilliant idea. It would probably solve my problem, but a custom app would be more likely to help other responders. Aug 19 14:30:26 p_l: "show a popup when an SMS arrives from a particular phone number" means that the trigger is there, and I think it's pretty clear that it can then do Incredibly Loud Things in response. Aug 19 14:31:09 and also, if Tasker can do it, then I can do it. Aug 19 14:31:35 does anybody know of an open source repo which has an app, plus decent unit/integration tests, and is built with ant? Aug 19 14:31:38 yep :) Aug 19 14:31:48 I thought the Google I/O app would be a good candidate, but they have no tests Aug 19 14:34:14 friend said he needed a scheduling app with some of Tasker's features. you've just saved me some work. (although now I need to find a new app to work on.) Aug 19 14:34:27 I hope it's as great as it sounds Aug 19 14:35:24 ok so i have a variable: private Class selectedTool; , how can i either 1) figure out what the selectedTool is so i can make an instance of it with the proper constructor? Aug 19 14:35:29 or 2) do it via reflextion Aug 19 14:38:24 nvm i think i got it Aug 19 14:41:54 Logi: http://pastebin.com/er5E5GXR is how to receive SMSs, you'll need the permission and see the comment about wake locks/services etc. to play your sound Aug 19 14:47:14 doc_savage: cool, thanks. And I notice the place-holder there in the code :) Aug 19 14:47:17 does anyone know of code for a sliding menu from BOTH sides? Aug 19 14:47:31 I'm trying to figure out how to accomplish it Aug 19 14:48:05 Logi: np, the rest you need is in the docs, I found the "how'd you get the SMS itself" part wasn't obvious, but you'll need to register the receiver in your manifest etc. Aug 19 14:48:06 And it's funny to read java code again. I've been in python land for a while now. Aug 19 14:49:41 you might actually be able to do it in python... Aug 19 14:50:47 I'm perfectly happy to write java code too. Using a less supported language i'd always be worrying if it was using python that was causing my problems - one more think to keep debugging Aug 19 14:59:35 android:minSdkVersion="4" Aug 19 14:59:36 android:targetSdkVersion="10" /> Aug 19 14:59:41 this is fine for publishing? Aug 19 14:59:58 cause in the publishing page (while APK has been signed and uploaded) I get this, This application is only available to devices with these features, as defined in your application manifest. Aug 19 14:59:59 This application is available to over 0 devices. Aug 19 15:00:10 how is that possible Aug 19 15:00:28 the text is just placeholder and it hasn't processed the manifest yet? Aug 19 15:00:33 It's slow at updating, and shows wrong numbers once in a while Aug 19 15:00:38 alright Aug 19 15:01:03 is this considered as Productivity or Tools, SimonVT? https://freecode.com/projects/cura Aug 19 15:01:44 No idea Aug 19 15:01:49 It says tools in the description :p Aug 19 15:01:56 I don't know the definition of Productivity Aug 19 15:03:11 I have nothing to do with the Privacy Policy, I'm under AGPLv3 Aug 19 15:04:10 Hello, I want to create an online back-end for my turn-based 2-player board game, but I don't know where to start. I'm planning to do it using JSPs so I can host it on Google's App Engine platform. Could you guys list some topics for me to learn to be able to accomplish this task? I need some sort of game lobby where players can meet and then they play the board game. Aug 19 15:04:23 anyone have a link to a G+/YouTube style menu? Aug 19 15:04:26 Correction: Not JSPs, but servlets Aug 19 15:17:54 I tried to modify this code http://code.google.com/p/krvarma-android-samples/source/browse/trunk/RSSReader/src/com/varma/samples/rssreader/ui/RSSListActivity.java Aug 19 15:17:54 in order to make it work with my program, it looks like my parsing is working ok , but the list is not displaying, and im sure that the rest of my resources are the same as the link above , did i hopefully mess up something obvious? http://www.fpaste.org/xoDS/ Aug 19 15:28:39 can I have icons in the overflow-menu (actionbar) ? Aug 19 15:37:21 Could you? Yes. Should you? No. Aug 19 15:51:28 I like the style of EditText in Holo (the theme). I want a normal TextView to have the same style, where can I find the background? thanks :) Aug 19 15:56:49 guys i know the inflation in this code is a disaster, but im not able to find a way to inflate the fragments properly http://www.fpaste.org/xoDS/ Aug 19 15:57:01 can anybody help? Aug 19 16:10:10 how do i prevent a button from stealing an ACTION_DOWN event? Aug 19 16:13:38 I'm trying to make a tower-defense game just to try out some SurfaceView stuff and see how far i can get. For the level design should i be looking to draw it with one background image (that has a path, and just keep drawing that) or should i be doing tiles? Aug 19 16:14:40 either is usually ok. Aug 19 16:14:51 * TheBunny has no idea if surfaces are slow Aug 19 16:15:04 i was following a tutorial that seemed to use SurfaceView which is more low level than the View from what i saw Aug 19 16:15:15 don't know how deep id have to go Aug 19 16:18:19 I think you will find out really fast if its to slow :) Aug 19 16:18:25 you said this was for learning Aug 19 16:20:21 yeah it is Aug 19 16:20:24 well its not slow (yet) Aug 19 16:20:34 ill try rendering rectangles first for the level :P Aug 19 16:24:45 tiles? Aug 19 16:26:13 TheBunny, yeah i guess so Aug 19 16:26:23 but no image yet, just painted rectangles Aug 19 16:31:54 you can always learn open gl :) Aug 19 16:32:43 that's just asking for too much :P Aug 19 16:38:55 can someone provide an example of how I can place a view (a placeholder or stub) from another layout? Aug 19 16:39:06 google is giving me nothing :( not sure what to look for Aug 19 16:42:55 ok, so I get here that the app is published..how long does it take to show up? Aug 19 16:43:00 and don't I get a direct link to it? Aug 19 16:49:06 any..idea? Aug 19 17:28:26 Sicp, you can test the direct link to it. It might be there or not. Aug 19 17:29:51 Sicp, if your package name in your manifest was com.panaceasupplies.android.reader then it would show up at http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.panaceasupplies.android.reader Aug 19 17:30:33 how do you get the users downloads folder if they don't have an sdcard? Aug 19 17:30:39 Also, if I recall correctly, my first published app took longer than my other ones...but it was over a year ago, I barely remember Aug 19 17:31:28 snooplsm, one way of finding out is create an emulator with no sd card memory and finding out that way. Or removing the sd card from your own android devices. Aug 19 17:32:44 i'll launch emulator Aug 19 17:32:45 If there's no external storage (which is highly unlikely), you'll have to use your apps internal data folder Aug 19 17:33:07 shit Aug 19 17:33:09 emulator is crashing Aug 19 17:33:16 i'll just only use external storage Aug 19 17:34:39 snooplsm, different apps can download to different places. The standard generic one for Browser etc. is under the Environment.getExternalStorageDirectory() directory in the Download folder. Aug 19 17:35:51 snooplsm, but of course, Environment.getExternalStorageDirectory() necessitates an SD card or similar. Aug 19 17:59:41 is there a way to set an item at a position in an arraylist (depending on whether or not it ever had an object at such position) lets say if i have an array size 5, i want to stick something in 7 Aug 19 17:59:48 or is there any collection type that allows this? Aug 19 18:01:40 maybe a dictionary hmm Aug 19 18:02:47 Bear10: you mean a sparse array Aug 19 18:03:07 you can emulate one using a Map. There can be slightly more efficient dedicated types for sparse arrays too, though. Aug 19 18:03:08 alankila, exactly that :P thanks :) Aug 19 18:03:15 didn't know the name Aug 19 18:03:24 but nobody cares. Just use Map Aug 19 18:04:14 TreeMap in particular allows iterating it in key order which may be interesting for enhancing the illusion that it is an actual array Aug 19 18:07:01 anyone have any problems installing the ADT plugin? It's hitting the same url over and over and over and not really getting anywhere Aug 19 18:16:32 Hello fellow developers, i wonder how this should be solved, i have this image i can drag and buttons in the background in a grid, i want so that when i drag the image i can detect which button it is over, how is this done? Aug 19 18:29:28 Is there a way to call foreach_root from java with an instance of rs_script_call? Aug 19 18:37:46 I've built an Android app before, but it was fairly basic with a simple gui and making only rest http calls. I'm now trying to make an app that will record calls. Anyone have pointers for starting? I assume different devices use different phone call apps depending on the vendor and that these apps don't necessarily have the API to hook on calls right? Aug 19 18:39:47 ldiamond, http://developer.android.com/reference/android/telephony/TelephonyManager.html Aug 19 18:40:25 ldiamond, looks like you could use the listener object to determine when a call is being placed Aug 19 18:41:25 thebishop, yea I've seen this one. But the api doesn't provide anything to get a copy of the audio stream Aug 19 18:41:40 I can register on that for events, however, the actual data I'd need to get elsewhere. Aug 19 18:42:09 ldiamond: Generally you can't easily record phone calls; android is kind of designed to make it not work for security reasons. There's some hacks - some vendors provide an API for it which bypasses the security blocks. Some times you can put it on speaker phone and get a shitty recording that way Aug 19 18:42:10 Ideally I'd want an app that can be used across multiple devices, without relying on prop binaries on the phone Aug 19 18:42:39 dragorn, yea, recording through speaker phone is a no-no in my case Aug 19 18:42:43 Also on a lot of hardware, if I recall correctly, the voice encoding for phone calls bypasses the audio stack in android entirely for security reasons Aug 19 18:42:44 ldiamond: may not be possible then. Aug 19 18:42:46 ldiamond, what about this: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaRecorder.html#setAudioSource(int) Aug 19 18:43:16 VOICE_CALL for audio source might do what you want Aug 19 18:43:21 "Voice call uplink + downlink audio source" Aug 19 18:44:05 thebishop, where do you see that VOICE_CALL defined? Aug 19 18:44:21 http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaRecorder.AudioSource.html Aug 19 18:44:43 if i'm reading that right, it looks like exactly what you want Aug 19 18:44:53 thebishop, yes it looks pretty good. Aug 19 18:46:09 It's a restricted API which isn't available, as far as I know Aug 19 18:46:15 My assumption that different vendors use different phone APPs is right? Aug 19 18:47:21 Drager, really? it looks public. only restriction i see is you need: * Aug 19 18:47:26 You can try it, but I believe non-system apps aren't allowed to use it Aug 19 18:47:29 http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/media/audio-capture.html Aug 19 18:48:18 thebishop, yea I'll try that with the voice_call constant. I've seen many reports of it just recording the microphone and not the other party Aug 19 18:48:21 but I'll test it out Aug 19 18:48:25 thebishop: Google around; it doesn't actually work with stock firmwares Aug 19 18:49:02 ldiamond: by all means try, but recording phone calls is one of those things a lot of people want to do, and which android deliebrately doesn't make easy Aug 19 18:49:21 i'm having trouble getting a WebView to scroll with scrollTo(). I've tried calling it immediately after loadData(), and within onPageFinished() callback. Neither seems to work. Aug 19 18:49:33 i am working on creating a service for an app. The service's only job is to call a rest service and return the json received. Aug 19 18:49:38 The motorola stock firmware won't even allow video recording while the phone is active, because it can capture the audio Aug 19 18:49:43 according to the documentation here http://developer.android.com/guide/components/bound-services.html Aug 19 18:49:45 I really don't see why they make it hard though... just make sure you warn people accordingly. Aug 19 18:49:54 (or at least, that's the performance I've witnessed) Aug 19 18:50:28 ldiamond: because malware recording phone calls is legally worse than malware leaking contacts databases, I'd imagine Aug 19 18:51:06 so, the problem here is it looks like the service object is a singleton which is being shared in a fancy way... Aug 19 18:51:19 dragorn, yes but apps requiring this functionality could simply have a specific permission for that. Aug 19 18:51:25 is it right? Aug 19 18:51:35 ldiamond: I didn't design it, just offering my guess. Aug 19 18:52:01 Cus people read permissions Aug 19 18:53:28 anyone ? Aug 19 18:54:14 kapilratnani, never written a service, sorry Aug 19 18:54:51 anyone gotten scrollTo to work? I didn't expect this to be the call that would trip me up Aug 19 18:56:24 thebishop: actually i don't need a service in this scenario. its just my architect who is forcing the use of a service. Normal asynctask will do just fine Aug 19 18:56:39 kapilratnani: Binding a service should give you a messenger object you can pass data to it with Aug 19 18:57:20 dragon: the service needs to be bounded with the application. Aug 19 18:57:39 kapilratnani: yes; binding it gives you a messenger object Aug 19 19:00:34 dragon: what about receiving the data back Aug 19 19:00:42 dragon: ? Aug 19 19:02:03 dragon: the scenario is that the message will contain a url for the service call, and the json received should be returned to the client Aug 19 19:02:05 kapilratnani: you get a serviceconnection and a messenger. There's a good service example in the developer docs for reference Aug 19 19:07:12 Hello all. So what is everyones opinion on using toast for an error message instead of an alertdialog? Aug 19 19:08:34 Galaktik: I'd use a toast to notify the user and than an alertdialog in the app when they return to it. Toasts are transient and a user can easily miss them. Aug 19 19:10:37 That was my opinion on it. I like the error message showing until they click OK. If they aren't expecting the Toast Message they could even see there error late and not get to read it all Aug 19 19:11:41 I keep shooting down their ideas though because they are being lazy on the android dev. I am about to just let them run and whatever it turns out to be is what it is. I feel like the Grinch who stole their ideas and then killed it Aug 19 19:12:31 Galaktik: the alternately popular method is a statusbar notification Aug 19 19:12:39 Galaktik: if your app is in the foreground, i'd use an alertdialog, if not, status bar notification Aug 19 19:12:52 which is probably better than a toast Aug 19 19:13:25 OK thanks everyone, I will try to get them to agree to one of those options Aug 19 19:17:44 dragorn: thanx got it :-) Aug 19 19:29:10 can I make a layout (xml file) and then import (or link to or whatever) it to another layout as a view/item ? Aug 19 19:29:17 there, published, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cura&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5jdXJhIl0. Aug 19 19:32:17 :) Aug 19 19:33:23 Sicp, congrats looks nice. Aug 19 19:34:46 Sicp: that is a very useful app Aug 19 19:36:09 Sicp, for the terminal, have you implemented a command history? Aug 19 19:53:38 i think im over thinking this, but im trying to move point A to point B (its a game) and im pretty sure i can use angles to figure out the direction i need to move in, however i cant remember my algebra/geometry, and i dont believe pythagoreas is needed is it? (all the sin,cos,tan) you can probably make do with 1 cant you? Aug 19 19:58:33 any WebView veterans here? I figured out how to resize text easily, but i can't figure out how to automatically scroll down after loading a view. Neither scrollTo or scrollBy seems to work. Aug 19 19:59:09 thebishop: why not use javascript for that? Aug 19 19:59:35 For FragmentActivity, does the activity get destroyed on orientation change? Aug 19 19:59:54 jasta, i'm displaying html from other sources, not writing my own Aug 19 20:04:20 jasta, maybe scrollTo has to be called within a runnable? It doesn't look that way in the documentation, but i'm at a loss Aug 19 20:06:09 Bear10, you already know the position of point B? Or you need to calculate it? Aug 19 20:06:16 hexed, i know it Aug 19 20:06:19 i know point A and point B Aug 19 20:06:42 As simple as updating the object with the new coordinates, no? Aug 19 20:07:49 well i want to move point A to point B gradually (its a game), in the correct direction Aug 19 20:07:50 path finding i suppose Aug 19 20:07:51 going from one (x,y) to the next (x,y) Aug 19 20:07:51 along a straight line? Aug 19 20:07:51 yeah Aug 19 20:07:52 i mean i can always do it without angles i think Aug 19 20:08:04 thebishop: is the view measured yet? Aug 19 20:08:27 a lot of folks make the mistake of trying to manipulate widget geometry in some way without waiting for the measure/layout pass to complete Aug 19 20:09:31 something like, x2-x1 * step, y2-y1 * step Aug 19 20:10:34 hexed yeah i guess thats the only thing i can do Aug 19 20:12:36 hihi Aug 19 20:13:46 Bear10, xdist = x2 - x1, ydist = y2 - y1. for each frame: newx += (xdist * step), newy += (ydist * step), where step is a float [0 - 1], make sense? Aug 19 20:13:49 dont take that too literally, been years since ive touched anything game related ;) Aug 19 20:14:13 yeah i did something of the sort just now, but i always thought moving it by caluclating the x and y speeds were choppy if you werent using trigonometry Aug 19 20:14:45 just received my replacement htc evo shift and it currently has 2.3.4 and I was trying to look around for the most current instructions and came across this, but I can not get follow the video because I believe the link is dead, or it downloads, but it doesnt extract all the files, getting errors..it downloads as a .zipx, I try to open via winrar and the same, I also tried changing the Aug 19 20:14:45 format to .zip and opening as well, does anyone have another link for this, trying to reroot for my replacement to put cm7.2 back on it Aug 19 20:15:13 Quagmire3: you already know, this is the wrong channel Aug 19 20:15:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYeecNuocq8&ytsession=jg57uXgZHNW4fqjuvavsD8VVTEzPaX7Fvz2LHxEF42yb65Y8jgQ1wrV-oZAnGvJLhRblIUOrhP7iCq3auugnVHJ01T-GILs82EsZNVYLITLS5RjXPGz2VxMsxxPUZmEU-hP3KTlJOgxaG1KfW51OSRYqt9mdo5pKmhuW6hZMuG6fTn6zwIcAB0GgkvdYOsPiOD5KAhfUz12YLb4TF70g6EdlqCp8NkyOwbjZUPzQEysief0JXvoAeYP4dDLhNWqD7csTOiI9rwuXtTQqFkH2Vs-_AdJtO8FBajTLt4AAPZ4 Aug 19 20:16:28 Bear10, nah you shouldn't need trig for something so simple Aug 19 20:17:00 Bear10, is it working currently? Aug 19 20:17:04 yeah Aug 19 20:17:21 choppy movement? shouldn't be. Aug 19 20:17:43 Bear10, maybe you are rounding to int when you shouldn't? Aug 19 20:17:55 nah its not choppy, just thought it could be funky but its okay itll work for this game Aug 19 20:17:56 i think Aug 19 20:18:30 yeah moving across a line where you know the two endpoints should be Just That Simple (tm) Aug 19 20:19:14 ill probably need to tune it down cause right now i have 2 if statements that do elseifs Aug 19 20:20:12 i'd like to do some game programming, but original ideas are lacking atm Aug 19 20:20:23 alpha3 only Aug 19 20:20:32 hexed, no need for them to be original :) take existing ones and make them better Aug 19 20:20:48 true ;) Aug 19 20:23:45 Bear10, but u should only really need trig if say: you have a current position and a heading, now player wants to move forward along that heading, what's the new position Aug 19 20:24:37 "heading" ? Aug 19 20:25:08 Bear10, imagine a top-down shooter, say grand theft auto 2 Aug 19 20:25:29 your player is looking northeast'ish, that's his heading Aug 19 20:25:54 ah Aug 19 20:26:13 to figure his position after moving a bit of trig is needed Aug 19 20:29:13 trig reminds me, I think a lot of people make panoramic shots by faking them Aug 19 20:29:24 they are not properly reprojected into cylindrical projection. Aug 19 20:29:25 annoying Aug 19 20:30:08 what would the eqiv be to TelephonyManager.EXTRA_INCOMING_NUMBER Aug 19 20:34:45 String timeZoneCode = timeZone.getDisplayName(timeZone.inDaylightTime(new Date()), TimeZone.SHORT, Locale.US); Aug 19 20:34:47 yeah? Aug 19 20:36:01 alankila: Most people don't have gear to compensate for parralax, either Aug 19 20:36:10 alankila: if you're going to get unhappy about panoramas ;P Aug 19 20:38:18 i've had a hard time making good paroramas Aug 19 20:39:35 g00s: to do it right you need a tripod w/ an offset head so that it rotates around the focal plane, otherwise you get parallax movement which makes it slightly wonky. No-one does that unless they're doing pro-ish stuff tho Aug 19 20:40:15 yeah, i just have a ball head. but i'm typically focusing on things pretty far away; not like an indoor shot Aug 19 20:40:26 g00s: manfrotto? Aug 19 20:41:36 nah, just a cheapo joby Aug 19 20:41:38 my camera also has limited dynamic range, which is tricky with a large subject with lots of dynamic range Aug 19 20:45:35 dragorn: oh, maybe. But I saw some scenes rendered with games and loaded them up in a panoramic viewer I have written once and was disappointed to see that straight lines weren't straight because the panorama was only faked Aug 19 20:45:36 dragorn: have you seen an app called AutoPano Pro? i tried the canon photostitch wich sucked Aug 19 20:45:37 and also hugin, which sucked too Aug 19 20:45:37 technically I guess you need to know the field-of-vision in order to correctly reproject it Aug 19 20:45:38 but other than that, it's just a matter of texture mapping Aug 19 20:45:41 g00s: I played w/ some pano stuff on the phone but my interest was limited Aug 19 20:46:05 I should probably do a little panorama rendering experiment of my own. Aug 19 20:46:37 ok, i've now tried calling (WebView)ScrollTo() from within a post(Runnable), WebViewClient::onPageFinished(), and WebChromeClient::onProgressChanged(progress == 100), none of these actually work to scroll the webview Aug 19 20:47:11 cylindrical projection is a bit difficult in that you have certain freedom about how densely you sample your world, but I guess I'll just fix the final FOV value beforehand and then pretend I'm doing planar projection except the rays aren't going to be planar Aug 19 20:47:42 it should result in fairly evenly sampled world after reprojection, or so I hope. Aug 19 20:56:54 ugh. ok, I can get ScrollTo working with a Framelayout object, but not a WebView. Aug 19 21:23:46 lol, are you fucking kidding me? Aug 19 21:24:19 iOS' NSURLConnection apparently will reuse existing HTTP connections only if the requests are within 12 seconds from one another Aug 19 21:24:42 they can't be serious. don't they know how expensive new TCP connections are for mobile networks? Aug 19 21:24:58 they're nearly free to idle Aug 19 21:29:14 hi i was reading the design guide Aug 19 21:29:36 at the settings section it says use status, not description Aug 19 21:29:38 jasta: but servers aren't willing to spend connections endlessly either Aug 19 21:30:03 a lot of the higher-volume sites close the keepalive within some short window like 15 seconds Aug 19 21:30:23 so how would i put the secondary text for a password preference? Aug 19 21:33:11 edmond9507: Does it need a description Aug 19 21:33:23 Password - "This is your password" Aug 19 21:33:25 alankila: well, let's test that shall we :) Aug 19 21:33:26 how do i see how many people are online? Aug 19 21:33:27 i though keeping tcp connections open forlong can give you very long RTT since the exponential backoff is unlikely to recover, and even if it does the connection does not perform as well as a new connection Aug 19 21:33:35 g00s: not sure, the backoff should apply only when the stack proves that packets got lost Aug 19 21:34:32 but tearing them down continuously was bad too, i remember a presentation on at&t ARO Aug 19 21:34:32 SimoneVT: it's a numeric PIN Aug 19 21:34:37 so just title, no description? Aug 19 21:35:08 Yes Aug 19 21:35:21 thank you :) Aug 19 21:35:47 a lot of those mobile connection stacks themselves go to idle at some point. early termination of the tcp might prevent the stack from waking up just to handle server's close Aug 19 21:37:09 another question, is there any way to inject javascript into a webpage without using webview? Aug 19 21:37:29 https, though, has seriously long keepalive because the negotiation is so expensive. I think it runs in the minutes. Aug 19 21:41:17 alankila: https is what i'm debugging btw Aug 19 21:41:24 NSURLConnection still closes those connections quickly Aug 19 21:41:42 alankila: i dunno; ha - found this blog i read from a long time ago http://blog.davidsingleton.org/mobiletcp/ Aug 19 21:43:00 alankila: specifically what i'm debugging is an incredibly slow simple HEAD request over HTTPS. the connection is not re-used for long enough in the app that we're frequently doing the SSL. even though technically we're resuming the prior SSL session, it's still slow as hell on AWS Aug 19 21:43:07 like 400ms just for a fucking HEAD request Aug 19 21:43:17 on a wired network, even. Aug 19 21:43:52 anyway, im trying to figure out right now how long AWS will let an https connection idle but im fighting with curl at the moment to do that Aug 19 21:49:19 ok, so the only way i've been able to get WebView.scrollTo to work is via the deprecated setPictureListener()... onNewPicture() callback. Aug 19 21:50:07 there doesn't seem to be another way to do it, and the documentation on onNewPicture's deprecation is a bit murky Aug 19 21:51:12 " While the PictureListener API can still be used to detect changes in the WebView content, you are advised against its usage until a replacement is provided in a future Android release." Aug 19 21:51:20 i guess no "replacement" currently exists. Aug 19 21:51:54 hi everyone Aug 19 21:52:10 has anyone run into a memory leak issue when using fragments? Aug 19 21:52:52 anytime I press the back button to exit my main activity, it destroys it, that's usual Aug 19 21:53:45 but, when I return to the app, I noticed that another fragment is created and it will keep doing this each time an app is destroyed and recreated Aug 19 21:54:01 this causes more memory to be allocated Aug 19 21:58:30 I don't think that's an issue with fragments, but your handling of the fragment lifecycle Aug 19 21:59:06 When your activity is destroyed, so are your fragments Aug 19 22:15:29 guys, my bad. thanks for answering Aug 19 22:15:37 I have that issue currently. Aug 19 22:16:47 I created a simple app based on an sdk example and using DDMS and Memory Analyzer, I can see that more instances of the same fragment is added to the Fragment Manager Aug 19 22:16:54 anyone know how to pair an android device (JB) via bluetooth with a device which does not require a pin? Aug 19 22:33:47 way to go China Mobile Aug 19 22:46:38 Hello - I'm just starting out on Android development. I'm using eclipse. I've made a very simple test app and I'm trying to figure out why it's crashing, so I placed Log.d() calls around my app Aug 19 22:46:52 however, where do I read what I'm logging? Logcat doesnt show anything Aug 19 22:48:51 Hmmm seems I've fixed it now. Aug 19 22:49:06 gj Aug 19 23:16:19 hello guys, please help. Having this class: http://pastebin.com/AyMvrZTt and this layout: http://pastebin.com/nbevEpwC why the app is crashing on setContentView()? http://imagebin.org/225158 http://imagebin.org/225159 Aug 19 23:16:23 thanks in advance Aug 19 23:16:30 im little stucked here Aug 19 23:17:56 Read the stacktrace in logcat Aug 19 23:19:43 Also, I'm guessing it's crashing on line 58 with a NetworkOnMainThreadException Aug 19 23:32:43 SimonVT, look, this is Logcat: http://pastebin.com/52Y1pG7p btw, i dont think its network related, why? Aug 19 23:33:38 java.lang.RuntimeException: Your content must have a ListView whose id attribute is 'android.R.id.list' Aug 19 23:33:51 So you have a ListView.. Guess what id it must have Aug 19 23:34:10 Also, read the docs for listactivity Aug 19 23:35:30 Im new to Android, trying Eclipse IDE following the first tutorial on d.android.com. Is eclipse/SDK this buggy? I mean, everytime I try to run the "Hello world" I got a different error under the same circunstancies. Aug 19 23:35:41 Now what I get is "[2012-08-19 20:31:41 - Bobo] Error in an XML file: aborting build." Aug 19 23:35:58 fix the xml Aug 19 23:36:21 How come I have a error in the XML file if I did nothing but just opened the default "Hello world" stuff ? Aug 19 23:36:55 wouldn't know, no clue about what code you have Aug 19 23:36:57 And surprinsingly, it worked the first time I tried. Now I just create another fresh project but this error. Aug 19 23:36:59 or xml Aug 19 23:37:44 Zharf, But wich XML file, wich line is wrong? Console doesnt say anything about. Theres a error log in Eclipse ? Aug 19 23:38:09 Anyway, Im following this http://developer.android.com/training/basics/firstapp/creating-project.html Aug 19 23:38:40 And trying to run in the emulator Aug 19 23:39:11 I don't usee eclipse, I don't know anything about it Aug 19 23:39:11 there's probably around 1 xml files in the project Aug 19 23:39:11 or maybe two actually Aug 19 23:39:12 it's pointless to keep guessing Aug 19 23:39:24 either you provide some links to pastes or... well.. no one can help you Aug 19 23:40:13 Zharf, I see. I should look into /res/layout/file.xml file, right ? Aug 19 23:40:28 probably Aug 19 23:40:35 ok Aug 19 23:42:09 Zharf, do you use any IDE ? Aug 19 23:43:24 yes, IDEA Aug 19 23:43:52 Nice, will take a look into that also Aug 19 23:44:46 Also Im using Eclipse 64bit. I think I will try 32bit to see if I have a better luck Aug 19 23:48:09 SimonVT, i dont understand why it must be called android.R.id.list, and where it's called this way? Aug 19 23:48:55 Did you read the docs for ListActivity? Aug 19 23:53:51 SimonVT, no man, so give me a min then Aug 19 23:56:08 Is there a better resource than the official docs anywhere? Aug 19 23:56:15 any idea why the context menu is not shooting http://www.radpaste.com/505/ ? Aug 19 23:56:37 SimonVT, ok, reading this: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/ListActivity.html give a min please Aug 20 00:02:45 SimonVT, ok, i got this: your own view MUST contain a ListView object with the id "@android:id/list" (or list if it's in code) Aug 20 00:03:09 just installed the SDK Aug 20 00:03:28 let see what it is about (n00b at coding for android) Aug 20 00:05:05 SimonVT, what i cant get is why having changed my layout to this: http://pastebin.com/LM6c6uR2 why im still receiving this: http://pastebin.com/QBBsyg3a can u help me, i know this is basic stuff, but im little stucked here Aug 20 00:08:12 @+id/list != @android:id/list Aug 20 00:17:55 Hey maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but does anyone know if its possible to tie a mediaplayer object to the audio manager and possibly change the text in the toast? Aug 20 00:18:37 If I specify media music, users can't listen to music with music app for instance Aug 20 00:19:12 its global, and I want to make volume controls only modify volume for in app sounds Aug 20 00:21:12 Well, what are other free options for Android development IDE than not Eclipse? There are any? Suggestions ? Aug 20 00:22:05 DanDare: next most common Java IDE is IntelliJ Aug 20 00:22:37 Thanks Bink, will take a look into that Aug 20 00:22:52 Wait, IntelliJ is not free I think Aug 20 00:23:13 its not Aug 20 00:23:30 The community edition is Aug 20 00:23:59 Well, it would be ok to buy something for the task, but not for now. Eclipse is just very unstable it seems Aug 20 00:24:57 Anyway, lets try "eclipse classic" for this time Aug 20 00:25:13 maybe just eclipse platform runtime :) Aug 20 00:25:18 jdt + adt Aug 20 00:26:02 g00s, and everything else trough command line you mean ? Aug 20 00:26:26 i do release builds through the command line, everything else in eclipse Aug 20 00:26:39 I see. Sounds fair Aug 20 00:27:24 g00s, this is becoming weird. Everyday I try to run the sample "hello world" I have different errors Aug 20 00:27:47 its hard go to find a cause this way Aug 20 00:28:22 well, its a part f using eclipse maybe, lets see what happens Aug 20 00:28:30 if you're new to eclipse, and haven't invested time learning it, try intellij then Aug 20 00:28:39 indeed Aug 20 00:29:00 g00s, actually im just trying the first tutorial on d.android.com Aug 20 00:29:11 coworker of mine moved to intellij after yeaars of eclipse Aug 20 00:29:36 so i just started investing the time, thats Aug 20 00:31:55 SimonVT, tks man, i could solve this one, will continue.. thanks again Aug 20 00:37:35 does anybody per chance know of a way to get xmlpullparser to respect the encoding tag in the i'm finding I have to manually set it on gingerbread and froyo, not sure if this is a known bug Aug 20 00:46:38 I have Java 7 JDK installed. Its OK if I just install Java 6 and just change the environment path? (windows 7 here), or better to uninstall the Java 7 first ? Aug 20 00:53:43 DanDare, former should work Aug 20 00:54:33 ok, thank you Aug 20 01:09:30 * t0mless tips canadiancow Aug 20 01:14:21 were cow tippin now? awesome! Aug 20 01:14:37 * t0mless is always tipping cows Aug 20 01:14:58 didn't your nick used to have capital letters drpenguin? Aug 20 01:15:17 t0mless: it did, I dont know what happened Aug 20 01:15:28 There's never enough cow tipping Aug 20 01:15:31 Seems you got demoted Aug 20 01:15:39 apparently Aug 20 01:23:15 Why doesnt the second read line show up in the textview?! Aug 20 01:23:15 ((TextView)cont).setText(br2.readLine().toString() + "\n\n" + br2.readLine().toString()); Aug 20 01:23:16 help Aug 20 01:23:18 T_T Aug 20 01:23:57 Maybe there's only one line Aug 20 01:23:58 because it ran out of data? Aug 20 01:24:14 maxlines set to 1? Aug 20 01:24:32 not enough room in the layout? Aug 20 01:26:02 you could try wrapping it in Html.fromhtml and using
tags Aug 20 01:31:10 what would i use to read dialing ? as this is for incoming numbers TelephonyManager.EXTRA_INCOMING_NUMBER Aug 20 01:43:37 Read dialing? Aug 20 01:47:55 Estel: nothing in the docs that show that Aug 20 01:56:14 I mean, I'm not sure what you mean by "read dialing" Aug 20 01:58:17 I like how in this fragment doc they have the thing about the interface to communicate with the activity Aug 20 01:58:49 and in the example they cast the activity to the interface, and throw a ClassCastException on a ClassCastException :p Aug 20 01:59:33 It's just for the message Aug 20 02:00:07 yeah but it's just an odd way to determine if the activity implements the interface Aug 20 02:00:15 using exceptions for logic is pretty poor Aug 20 02:02:10 Estel: TelephonyManager.EXTRA_INCOMING_NUMBER whats used to read outgoing number Aug 20 02:02:18 or anybody ^^ Aug 20 02:03:19 I don't really see the issue Aug 20 02:03:29 android.permission.PROCESS_OUTGOING_CALLS might be something to do with it but thats just the permissions Aug 20 02:04:43 TelephonyManager.EXTRA_INCOMING_NUMBER whats used to read outgoing number Aug 20 02:09:09 "Android does indeed support direct connectivity to most databases Aug 20 02:09:10 including MySQL" <- this is true ? Aug 20 02:10:59 through ndk, I'd imagine you could do a fair amount Aug 20 02:11:21 DanDare: where did you read that? Aug 20 02:12:17 Leeds, in a forum Aug 20 02:12:31 ah, the ultimate source of canonical knowledge Aug 20 02:12:54 droidbuster: Why dont you just inspect the intent and search for extra strings in the docs Aug 20 02:13:12 SimonVT: i did Aug 20 02:13:27 DanDare: no, Android supports sqlite for local databases, and HTTP for access to remote DBs - put together a simple HTTP front-end for your server-side DB, and things are relatively easy Aug 20 02:13:43 Leeds, yeah, checked that about sqlite Aug 20 02:13:54 I see Aug 20 02:14:01 SimonVT: i saw nothing that came close to check for dialed numbers Aug 20 02:15:14 ((TextView)cont).setText(br2.readLine().toString() + "\n\n" + br2.readLine().toString()); Aug 20 02:15:31 I don't know if its easy. Its at least intimidating Aug 20 02:15:35 I wrapped the textview in a scrrollview Aug 20 02:15:40 Well, what extras were there in the intent? Aug 20 02:15:54 but it is only showing the first line Aug 20 02:15:56 ((TextView)cont).setText(br2.readLine().toString() + "\n\n" + br2.readLine().toString()); Aug 20 02:16:01 I sure hope Leeds is right though. It looked so complicated I went for an energy drink Aug 20 02:16:21 help Aug 20 02:16:35 But I need to send data and pull data Aug 20 02:16:54 Anyone can help? Aug 20 02:17:47 Wow what are YOU doing to that poot TextView. Aug 20 02:17:52 poor* Aug 20 02:17:56 Brent__: _________ try using "
" instead of "\n\n" Aug 20 02:18:43 Thanks son! Aug 20 02:18:57 pleasure dad! Aug 20 02:19:26 Leeds is an Android mastermind... perhaps an evil genius Aug 20 02:19:34 lol Aug 20 02:20:13 * Galaktik thinks Leeds should open an Android Helpline Aug 20 02:20:23 I would, if people would pay... Aug 20 02:20:47 I couldn't afford $0.99 cent a minute I won't deny it Aug 20 02:24:05 Leeds will put you on hold on hour Aug 20 02:24:11 rip off :/ Aug 20 02:24:39 60 without him even talking Aug 20 02:25:18 well actually 59.40 dollars Aug 20 02:26:07 Well, if ADN is showing people will pay for things that are free already Aug 20 02:26:34 Perhaps some curated stackoverflow with answers from vetted experts isn't so crazy Aug 20 02:27:00 t0mless :( Aug 20 02:27:35 im t0m Aug 20 02:30:15 leeds it dont work Aug 20 02:30:21 i even tried:((TextView)cont).setText(br2.readLine().toString() + "\n"for(int z = 0; z < 2; z++){ br2.readLine().toString()}); Aug 20 02:31:47 leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds Aug 20 02:31:54 l Aug 20 02:31:55 e Aug 20 02:31:57 e Aug 20 02:32:00 d Aug 20 02:32:00 s Aug 20 02:32:03 Leeds: Aug 20 02:32:09 :P Aug 20 02:33:04 Brent__: are you serious? Aug 20 02:34:01 yes Aug 20 02:37:13 Leeds: Aug 20 02:41:18 Brent__: here's two totally unsubtle hints for you: just because some random guy on IRC gives you a couple of bits of advice, that doesn't mean you should bug him for more and more... and generally, pissing off a whole channel isn't the way to get help **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 20 02:59:59 2012