**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 21 02:59:58 2012 Aug 21 03:00:07 I dunno if they're large enough for it to make a difference Aug 21 03:00:50 SimonVT: but what about I need to draw/annotate sth on the screen, I need to update the screen for every onTouch event. Should I stick to use imageview? Aug 21 03:00:50 Aug 21 03:03:06 I don't really know Aug 21 03:06:13 it's registered. n i was idle. but apparenlty i'm not banned. it just kept saying "cannot send messageto channel while banned" but i re-entered n all looks were Aug 21 03:06:24 err wrong window Aug 21 03:09:27 Is anyone here used to Robolectric? If I do shadowOf().getNextStartedActivityForResult() and then shadowOf().getNextStartedActivity(), I get the same intent. Is this the expected behaviour? Aug 21 03:09:56 is SoundPool picky about what formats it can load? Aug 21 03:11:25 really stupid question Aug 21 03:11:40 but there's no reason why i can't install eclipse and ADT in Ubuntu right? Aug 21 03:13:44 None Aug 21 03:13:47 just Do it. Aug 21 03:14:46 t0mless: k good Aug 21 03:14:58 now i just gotta make sure there's enough space in my VM Aug 21 03:15:01 god i need a new machine Aug 21 03:16:15 why are you making a VM as your dev machine? Aug 21 03:16:23 why not just dev on the host OS? Aug 21 03:16:30 t0mless: i am right now Aug 21 03:16:35 t0mless: windows is the host OS Aug 21 03:16:41 but i prefer ubuntu for dev Aug 21 03:16:51 * t0mless shrugs Aug 21 03:16:57 Whatev's Aug 21 03:17:07 HorizonXP i don't use ubuntu primarily but i have setup adt and eclipse several times. i mostly run arch linux and it's way bettter than windows if tht's your comparison, in terms of dev ability Aug 21 03:17:08 yeah it's a really stupid setup on my paret Aug 21 03:17:37 rootlicker: yeah, i don't imagine you're wrong Aug 21 03:17:44 t0mless, why it is giving me this: http://pastebin.com/LWWgtSyF , i just added line 80 here: http://pastebin.com/3tVd2mUT Aug 21 03:17:54 i would prefer vm over windows. forced to use windows for work machine but it doesn't have enough ram to handle vm on top of it Aug 21 03:18:11 so I'm trying to use a SoundPool to play some small, simple samples and they're apparently never ready Aug 21 03:18:33 it's stupid, it actually has 6 gigs in it, but their VPN cleint software is 32 bit winows only, so i have to have 3 bit windows, and it can't address all the ram Aug 21 03:18:58 rootlicker: that is stupid Aug 21 03:19:26 HorizonXP yeah it is. i've had battles about the shit ever sincei started there, been 1 year and about ready to leave Aug 21 03:19:54 rootlicker: lol because of not being able to support 64 bit? Aug 21 03:20:00 yeah, I'd leave too :P Aug 21 03:21:23 well just a lot of stuff. it's not a dev/tech principle company, but they have a HUGE it shop (maybe 30k IT employees, probably like 5k developers?) and Aug 21 03:21:50 they have so many constraining rules and polcies and so many bad practicies... it's just numbing Aug 21 03:22:24 rootlicker: where do you live? Aug 21 03:22:57 USA Aug 21 03:23:03 too broad? Aug 21 03:28:00 hey guys, how would i save custom data to the clipboard in api level < 11? for example, i have a spannable text view and its text is a SpannableStringBuilder... it contains text and drawables. i tried using android.text.ClipboardManager.setText, but that just copies the text, not the drawables... any ideas? Aug 21 03:29:45 dammit, who was I talking to? Aug 21 03:30:54 HorizonXP , to me, about locale Aug 21 03:31:31 notice it says "setText" thats a hint, yuyo Aug 21 03:32:18 rootlicker: it takes a CharSequence, and SpannableStringBuilder is a CharSequence... that said, do you know how to do what I want to do? Aug 21 03:32:36 rootlicker: right :) Aug 21 03:32:48 rootlicker: and? i missed your answer because my video driver crashed. Aug 21 03:33:47 t0mless, r u there? why it is giving me this: http://pastebin.com/LWWgtSyF , i just added line 80 here: http://pastebin.com/3tVd2mUT Aug 21 03:34:26 HorizonXP i said usa... in the south Aug 21 03:42:13 rootlicker: like south, like around Texas? Aug 21 03:42:27 anyway, the point i was gonna make is that you can probably find work pretty easily Aug 21 03:48:23 hargh Aug 21 03:49:51 I am trying to use ksoap and having an issue with the jar file. Is it suppose to be in libs because it won't go there Aug 21 03:51:45 Galaktik: what happens, does it pop out ? Aug 21 03:53:01 LogCat error when I run it with ksoap in root is could not find class 'org.ksoap.serialization.SoapObject Aug 21 03:54:07 g00s: Evertime I try to put it in libs it pops out into the root Aug 21 03:56:02 O.o Aug 21 03:56:38 I manually put it in instead of trying to get Eclipse to do it.... maybe that will work Aug 21 03:56:54 OK that seems to have worked Aug 21 04:09:36 ok note to self, when using SoundPool, load() returns a soundId that is different than the resource id of the sound, so later when you want to play(), you have to give it the soundId, not the resource id Aug 21 04:10:09 love running in circles :) Aug 21 04:12:33 hello, calling requestRender on GLSurfaceView should invoke onDrawFrame on the REnderer, correct? Aug 21 04:28:27 Actionbar is introduced on API 11 and dropdown on the actionbar requires min sdk version 14? Looks like a misunderstanding from my side or is it correct? Aug 21 04:33:02 hello Aug 21 04:33:15 has anybody experienced slow activity start times on ICS? Aug 21 04:33:25 specifically, I am starting an activity from a service Aug 21 04:33:51 the activity is empty, it has no themes applied etc. It still takes about 3+ seconds to display Aug 21 04:34:10 it worked fine on gingebread, just wondering if anybody has any hints Aug 21 04:35:53 rootlicker: it takes a CharSequence, and SpannableStringBuilder is a CharSequence... that said, do you know how to do what I want to do? Aug 21 04:35:56 hey guys, how would i save custom data to the clipboard in api level < 11? for example, i have a spannable text view and its text is a SpannableStringBuilder... it contains text and drawables. i tried using android.text.ClipboardManager.setText, but that just copies the text, not the drawables... any ideas? Aug 21 04:38:16 Can you use a TimePicker for lengths of time? e.g. "how late was your flight" instead of "what time did your flight arrive" Aug 21 04:45:34 thats a good question SoulPropagation Aug 21 04:47:34 thanks :P it looks like I might be able to set it in 24 hour mode and then convert it, so I'll let ya know Aug 21 04:48:46 yeah i haven't played with timepicker much tbh Aug 21 04:49:48 look at it's api reference and its source, maybe you can extend it into something you need Aug 21 04:52:24 or you might be able to setCurrentHour to 00 and setCurrentMinute to 0 and when they pick a time, get them seperately Aug 21 04:53:01 yeah that's what I'm thinking, just convert it from like "12:40 am" to "0 hours 40 minutes" Aug 21 04:53:30 getCurrentMinute and getCurrentHour Aug 21 04:53:52 would the time range for this application be less than 24 hours ? Aug 21 04:56:05 yeah. no more than an hour or two Aug 21 05:15:53 "Samsung attorney John Quinn told the court that in the first two quarters it was in the market, the Galaxy Nexus sold $250 million worth of the device, arguing that "this is a product that, at most, captured 0.5 percent of the market." Aug 21 05:16:14 thats not too bad Aug 21 05:16:21 hardly a formula to emulate apparently; thats why we don't see more vanilla devices Aug 21 05:17:01 of course they were minimizing the success of the device for the court Aug 21 05:21:56 I just read a section on threading in the docs ... and I'm a little confused on something (due to unfamiliarity with terminology); if two activities/services, or one of each, are running in a process -- is the default behavior to start only one thread and swap between them in some fashion? Aug 21 05:22:25 or does it create one thread for each Aug 21 05:22:36 phantal: by default there is one thread; events are dispatched on that thread Aug 21 05:22:41 by default services run in the same thread Aug 21 05:22:53 ah good, I didn't read it wrong Aug 21 05:23:10 to do multithreading, use async task or traditional java threading, if you dare!! Aug 21 05:23:24 or IntentService Aug 21 05:23:41 yeah or that Aug 21 05:23:52 What's the difference between IntenService and AsyncTask Aug 21 05:23:55 Intent Aug 21 05:24:19 IntentServices are cool and AsyncTasks will torture your puppy Aug 21 05:25:16 i can't recall the specifics of intentService Aug 21 05:27:11 so heres a good question. there's a UI feature i want (pull to refresh list), there's a couple of libraries for it. i could implement myself n getm ore experience (it's a learning project) or use a library and get the app in a first release state faster... fork in the road Aug 21 05:27:19 So, if I subclass 'Service' it will run in the same thread as whatever instructed it to start, but if I use IntentService it starts another thread automatically, so to speak Aug 21 05:27:45 lol i am such a pompous asshole, startingm y question with "so here's a good question" Aug 21 05:28:00 no, services generally run in their own process, don't they? Aug 21 05:28:03 rootlicker: what's wrong with having a refresh action in the Action Bar? Aug 21 05:28:30 eddie because it is an ongoing list pulling more, basically a way to do paging Aug 21 05:28:49 briswolf: that I don't know. Still pretty green to the android dev terminology & whatnot Aug 21 05:28:52 but not reallyp aging. it will fetch 20 items from an api at a time (will be adding caching tho) Aug 21 05:29:03 are we talking multi-application here? Aug 21 05:29:05 I have a question. For people who do Android professionally... Aug 21 05:29:08 or does this all run in one application Aug 21 05:29:09 briswolf no they do not Aug 21 05:29:34 if the service is in another application, then it runs in the process for that application Aug 21 05:29:47 ...if you are doing UI for a page, and they're very big on the spec. and animations etc., how long does one page usually take? Including JSON backend implementation and everything. Aug 21 05:30:04 ologn that's a loaded question Aug 21 05:30:08 you can specify that the service runs in its own process in its own application... why you would need to I haven't quite worked out Aug 21 05:30:30 rootlicker, yaa, I know... Aug 21 05:30:41 scope creep. you started out with ui, then enaimation, then backend implementation - could be a whole app in one screen Aug 21 05:31:17 phantal: what are you trying to accomplish, out of curiousity? Aug 21 05:31:27 briswolf: supposing I was just writing a tool to use on a computer; I'd have a thread for handling the gui, and a thread for doing the heavy lifting. I'm unsure whether a service, intentservice, or asynctask is most appropriate Aug 21 05:31:36 rootlicker, I did Unix administration since 1996. I just started doing programming contracts recently. Aug 21 05:31:40 probably intentservice Aug 21 05:32:08 phantal Aug 21 05:32:19 phantal it depends on what your heavy lifting is Aug 21 05:32:31 or java threads Aug 21 05:32:32 rootlicker: stuff that would clobber a gui thread Aug 21 05:32:46 async task is appopritate for some typeso f things not others Aug 21 05:33:37 "syncTask is designed to be a helper class around Thread and Handler and does not constitute a generic threading framework. AsyncTasks should ideally be used for short operations (a few seconds at the most.) If you need to keep threads running for long periods of time, it is highly recommended you use the various APIs provided by the java.util.concurrent " Aug 21 05:34:00 I quite like async tasks too Aug 21 05:34:15 they are handy when you are starting from the ui thread, say, responding to a button Aug 21 05:34:48 IntentService is a base class for Services that handle asynchronous requests (expressed as Intents) on demand. Clients send requests through startService(Intent) calls; the service is started as needed, handles each Intent in turn using a worker thread, and stops itself when it runs out of work. Aug 21 05:34:49 otherwise if you were going to be doing something periodic, I'd start a thread Aug 21 05:35:15 or, use some sort of timer, not that I am familiar with anything like that on android... Aug 21 05:35:57 there ya have it Aug 21 05:36:04 supposing I needed to periodically poll a remote server ... based on what rootlicker just quoted, AsyncTask and IntentService weren't necessarily designed for that purpose Aug 21 05:36:23 eg, I /could/ just have the service loop indefinitely and never complete its task, but that isn't how it was designed Aug 21 05:36:32 phantal: you would use those in conjunction with alarm manager Aug 21 05:36:36 you would need your own thread probably, or use a timer* to start an asynctask Aug 21 05:36:40 alarm manager + intentService Aug 21 05:36:45 yeah, i would just extend service into another class and use traditional java threads to fo your http request Aug 21 05:37:08 actually i wouldn't even do it as a service unless you need it to keep going when the app isn't being used Aug 21 05:37:27 nah, I'd rather have the app close when someone hits home/back, etc Aug 21 05:37:34 the thing about service is it's for background things, service has higher priority not to get killed by system than activity Aug 21 05:38:03 "foregrounded service" i.e. service that puts a notification in the status bar - has even hgiher priority Aug 21 05:38:04 service is also useful for inter-process communication Aug 21 05:38:13 like a shared library or resource Aug 21 05:38:17 yeah Aug 21 05:39:00 if you're just doing some work thato nyl needs to happen when the app is in view, then just use a thread method Aug 21 05:39:14 and in your onPause or onStop, stop that thread Aug 21 05:39:36 speaking of ... when communicating within the same process, do you just use the normal java way of doing it (synchronized blocks), or is it better to use an existing API (like bundles, etc) Aug 21 05:39:58 don't make life hard on yourself, just use sync blocks and functions :) Aug 21 05:40:06 communicating between activities? Aug 21 05:40:14 activities, services, etc Aug 21 05:40:16 threads Aug 21 05:40:36 i'm not sure i get your question i see multiple ways of interpretingi t Aug 21 05:40:57 I'll try to word it better, but I'm still kinda green with the terminology Aug 21 05:41:29 its probably my fault but do you mean different components calling methods on each other, or passing data around, or both? Aug 21 05:42:39 A simple example ... suppose the app has an activity or service that uses the camera to get images; if I want another thread to consume it, I could either go about it through the API (using built-in IPC techniques like bundles), or just use a synchronized block and access it through my own framework Aug 21 05:43:10 oh ok Aug 21 05:43:43 phantal: you would probably want some kind of queue Aug 21 05:43:48 i'd probably go the later if its only without your app Aug 21 05:44:01 the thread would put data into the queue, and the main thread would take data out Aug 21 05:44:12 i don't know if yuo need IPC if your just sharing between threads in one app, they are in one process still Aug 21 05:44:15 java has some concurrent queue classes Aug 21 05:44:17 http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/collections/implementations/queue.html Aug 21 05:44:43 I wouldn't use IPC, it is just more plumbing for no reason Aug 21 05:44:50 now, if the thread is one activity and the camera fetchig is in another, it's a questino of how to share the resource Aug 21 05:45:11 i'd probably go with a static singleton in that case i think Aug 21 05:45:32 well in that case a bound service might be appropriate?... Aug 21 05:45:43 haha I really do not know. Aug 21 05:45:43 yeah bound service would be good too Aug 21 05:45:57 Actionbar is introduced on API 11 and dropdown on the actionbar requires min sdk version 14? Looks like a misunderstanding from my side or is it correct? Aug 21 05:46:03 then you could get a handle on the service in the IBinder onServiceConnected() or whatever Aug 21 05:46:22 yeah. Although I find services to be horribly complex Aug 21 05:46:36 Hi all. I have URI pointing to some audio, like that: "content://media/internal/audio/media/122". How can I play it? I tried to use SoundPool for that, but when I try to load such sound mSoundPool.load("content://media/internal/audio/media/122", 1) i got an error: error loading content://...... Aug 21 05:46:37 napster: list navigation is api 11+ Aug 21 05:46:39 anyone playing around with onx? Aug 21 05:46:44 so how can I play it? Aug 21 05:46:47 the documentation takes a little to wade through but they aren't too bad once you get the hang o f em Aug 21 05:47:21 I have been working with a service for about 9 months now, it is ok yes, but there are some crazy gotchas Aug 21 05:47:25 like memory leaks etc Aug 21 05:47:33 especially remote process bound services Aug 21 05:47:43 JakeWharton: ok, just wanted to know if this is ultimately possible to get it down back to API-8 using support lib Aug 21 05:47:49 haven't done remote process but yeah memory leaks can be one thing Aug 21 05:47:55 napster: try http://actionbarsherlock.com Aug 21 05:48:03 anyone know why webview quality loosk bad when u zoom in, got this image which becomes too pixelated when zoomed, but looks fine on iphone Aug 21 05:48:13 I'm really struggling with the docs because of all the new terminology. What I need to find is something that breaks it down by stepping through (at a somewhat high level) designing a non-trivial application Aug 21 05:48:18 if you hold a handle to a service in an activity, you have to get rid of that handle in onStop n such Aug 21 05:48:26 JakeWharton: This is what I use now, I was trying for a native solution :) Aug 21 05:48:33 native? Aug 21 05:48:43 action bar didn't exist in the platform until Honeycomb Aug 21 05:48:48 probably means the android equivalent of JNI Aug 21 05:49:03 nah Aug 21 05:49:15 phantal: have you done much java work? Aug 21 05:49:36 JakeWharton: The question is, does the support library brings the android actionbar to API 8 or even API 10 Aug 21 05:49:37 phantal sounds like you don't need a service as you mentioned not caring about it running when the app is out of view Aug 21 05:49:46 eh, some. I have more experience with C/C++ and perl Aug 21 05:50:01 napster: no, the support library does not contain the action bar Aug 21 05:50:12 yeah. I worked with java for years and still struggled with android concepts like activities and services Aug 21 05:50:13 thats it. Thank you JakeWharton Aug 21 05:50:20 briswolf: I know enough to work competently in Java, but I'm not an expert by any means Aug 21 05:50:28 implement a thread in your activity, or if it needs to be more complex than implement a class that extends thread or one that implements runnable Aug 21 05:50:31 my advice is to just use one activitiy and pretend like that is all you have Aug 21 05:50:33 and work in there Aug 21 05:50:38 and then go more complex if you need to Aug 21 05:50:59 make yourself a thread and use syncronized blocks and such to work with it Aug 21 05:51:45 if your app is just like one screen or one set of screens, then this is all you should need really (you can make more threads if you like of course :) Aug 21 05:51:52 rootlicker: in short, the 'worker thread' (whether that's a service or whatever) will be doing some complex arithmetic (image DSP stuff), so obviously it can't be in the UI thread. Whether it's a service, asynctask, java thread, or some other thing ... I just don't want this to be difficult to maintain Aug 21 05:52:18 my vote is for java thread Aug 21 05:52:19 heres my suggestion then Aug 21 05:52:28 so I'm trying to get a handle on 'best practices' for this sort of thing Aug 21 05:52:41 implement a class that implements runnable (easy, just implment the run() method where its thread will start its work) Aug 21 05:52:53 also create acorresponding interface Aug 21 05:53:08 so class Worker implements runnable Aug 21 05:53:39 and interface IWorkerClient Aug 21 05:53:53 the interface specifies the name of the callbacks - success/fails, whatever Aug 21 05:53:58 so your activity implements the interface Aug 21 05:54:34 then, in that Worker class, have a member object - of type IWorkerClient - and a setter method. so then implement your dsp stuff there Aug 21 05:54:39 so no way to set webview render quality? Aug 21 05:54:51 so, I'd use that interface to notify the activity consuming the results, and I could use it to poll for more work Aug 21 05:55:00 then your activity does Worker worker = new Worker(); worker.setClient(this) //setClient(IWorkerClient client) Aug 21 05:55:36 rootlicker: makes sense Aug 21 05:55:52 then (new Thread(Worker)) .start(); Aug 21 05:56:12 yeah so in yuor worker class, you can callback reliable on the activity Aug 21 05:56:18 for communicating with a server, it sounds like I might be better off doing the same thing there Aug 21 05:56:35 phantal: Aug 21 05:56:37 IWorkerClient myClient; //set by activity in the corresponding setter Aug 21 05:56:50 then myClient.successCallback(result) //callback specified by interface Aug 21 05:56:59 don't forget that the worker will callback those methods on its worker thread Aug 21 05:57:10 yeah Aug 21 05:57:10 briswolf: ::nod::, so need to synchronize Aug 21 05:57:16 so you will have to use like handler.post(Runable); to post back to the main thread Aug 21 05:57:21 in the impelemntation of the callbacks, in the activity, use RunOnUiThread Aug 21 05:57:29 briswolf: what does posting accomplish Aug 21 05:57:31 oooh RunOnUiThread? Aug 21 05:57:35 yeah Aug 21 05:57:44 *goes to look it up* :P Aug 21 05:57:54 runOnUiThread, it's a method of the Activity class Aug 21 05:58:07 wow. Here I have been making my own handler and posting to it Aug 21 05:58:14 see what happens when you miss the basics :P Aug 21 05:58:30 runONUiThread(new Thread() { public void run() { //stuff to do in callback} }); Aug 21 05:59:00 yeah I got that much, I usualy make a new handler like handler = new Handler(getMainLooper()); Aug 21 05:59:07 ah Aug 21 05:59:10 i'm not a thread expert Aug 21 05:59:13 and then I can post to that from other threads. Just ignorance on my part Aug 21 05:59:13 So, instead of actually creating a new thread, I imagine there's a queue the UI thread uses to determine what to run Aug 21 05:59:39 yes, there is an event queue in the main thread Aug 21 05:59:50 which is why it is important not to block that main thread, so things stay responsive Aug 21 05:59:50 err Aug 21 05:59:55 maybe it's new Runnable*** Aug 21 06:00:01 oh, I see Aug 21 06:00:07 so you post a Bundle to it Aug 21 06:00:10 and that runable gets posted in a queue for the ui thread to pick up Aug 21 06:00:17 yes I see, new runnable Aug 21 06:00:41 yeah, woops Aug 21 06:00:44 most java systems (awt, swing, blackberry) have this kind of mechanism Aug 21 06:00:52 posting runnable objects to a queue Aug 21 06:00:57 I am a fan :) Aug 21 06:00:58 this is why it's better to bookmark docs and references than it is to memorize ;-) Aug 21 06:01:28 phantal no need for a bundle unless you need ab undle Aug 21 06:01:31 so... has anybody used DDMS to profile an application? Aug 21 06:01:55 what does posting accomplish if you aren't handing it something in a bundle? Aug 21 06:01:57 a little briswolf but not extensively Aug 21 06:02:10 you'rep osting the runnable Aug 21 06:02:13 I see in the traceview utility there is a timeline view, is that not a part of eclipse/ddms? Aug 21 06:02:16 the runnable gets picked up and exectued Aug 21 06:02:43 phantal: the runnable can make reference to objects later, provided they were marked final when passed to the runnable Aug 21 06:03:07 nod Aug 21 06:03:07 it is all the same memory space, you can access things between threads.... just gotta watch the syncronisation Aug 21 06:03:54 yeah, usually i just have the run() method call other methods, some stuff doesn't even need to be on the UI thread Aug 21 06:04:41 so perhaps you would do something like this: Aug 21 06:04:42 final WorkResultType workResult = getWorkResult(); // this reads out of a synced queue, or something Aug 21 06:04:42 runOnUiThread(new Runnable(){ public void run() { process(workResult); }}); Aug 21 06:04:56 of course, there are a million ways to do it Aug 21 06:04:59 as there always are Aug 21 06:05:04 nod Aug 21 06:05:07 it goes down to style and readability really Aug 21 06:05:26 android is a damn good framework if you like nutsn bolts. doesn't lock you out, just provides itso wn mechanisms Aug 21 06:05:39 actually, if you are using callbacks like rootlicker suggested, you can pass the work result straight in as a parameter Aug 21 06:05:46 How do the scoping rules work for that ... I assume you mean workResult is a local variable in a function Aug 21 06:05:57 yep Aug 21 06:06:05 yeah you can pass results directly back doingi t this way Aug 21 06:06:17 the object itself isn't garbage collected until after that runnable object is destroyed Aug 21 06:06:25 nod Aug 21 06:06:27 which happens after it has been run Aug 21 06:06:38 so you don't have to keep a reference to that object anywhere special Aug 21 06:07:08 nope just instantiate it in the scope of the method that spawns the thread Aug 21 06:07:13 So, the function that initiated the runOnUiThread could have long-since returned, but it lives on because it was used in that (what is that ... a lambda function?) Aug 21 06:07:36 nah it's not lambda Aug 21 06:07:45 anonymous class Aug 21 06:07:48 I've used it before, but wasn't sure on terminology Aug 21 06:07:53 it is kind of like the same concept though Aug 21 06:07:58 like blocks in iOS Aug 21 06:08:03 the function doesn't live on Aug 21 06:08:23 ya, not the function, just the final'd variable Aug 21 06:08:42 but the Runnable object, if it has a reference to an object instantiated in the scope of the worker clas in another thread- will cause that object ot persist until the runnable object itself is destoryed Aug 21 06:08:43 until runnable is finished Aug 21 06:09:00 in general, the java compiler is very good, it won't let you access something you cannot do (thread concurrency aside) Aug 21 06:09:05 so don't sweat it too much Aug 21 06:09:12 it will warn or error you if you do something wrong Aug 21 06:09:18 aside from concurrency ;P Aug 21 06:09:24 The final is necessary though because it's in a different thread; without it, it would be cleaned up I'm guessing? Aug 21 06:10:04 that is a good question. I think you are guaranteeing that the object reference will not change Aug 21 06:10:14 ergo the compiler can make a cache of it inside the runnable object Aug 21 06:10:18 I am just guessing Aug 21 06:10:22 morning Aug 21 06:10:59 ::nod:: Aug 21 06:11:01 and so, yes, without the final keyword, the reference wouldn't be stored and could be collected Aug 21 06:12:14 Cool, I think I have enough to go on here. Thanks for all the info and brainstorming, I appreciate it Aug 21 06:13:01 oh, one more: I'm guessing I don't need to declare anything in AndroidManifest.xml for threads; only if it's a component (service, activity, etc) Aug 21 06:13:16 correct! Aug 21 06:13:27 go forth and make as many threads as you like :) Aug 21 06:16:08 and so, yes, without the final keyword, the reference wouldn't be stored and could be collected <--- what? that's not true at all Aug 21 06:16:52 garbage collection only occurs when there are no references left to an object (ignoring weak references) Aug 21 06:16:59 I know that Aug 21 06:17:00 doesn't matter whether or not those references are final Aug 21 06:17:05 no of course not Aug 21 06:17:19 I meant that the compiler wouldn't be free to create that cached reference Aug 21 06:17:33 I am only surmising, why else would the final keyword be needed? Aug 21 06:17:44 I should research. Aug 21 06:20:23 briefly glancing over the conversation it looks like you're talking about accessing local variables from the surrounding method within anonymous classes Aug 21 06:21:04 yeah Aug 21 06:21:16 ryanm: I am sorry if what I said was wrong, I was just trying to explain it. Please don't make me feel bad for just trying to help. Aug 21 06:21:28 "The language designers could have allowed usage of non-final local variables inside inner classes. However, this could be confusing for the developer, since it would not be clear whether assignments to the reference are seen by the inner class or not." Aug 21 06:21:51 "closures are confusing. force them to make it final" Aug 21 06:22:16 rootlicker: well, the problem is less "closures are confusing" and more "Java doesn't have support for closures" Aug 21 06:22:22 I did say "I think you are guaranteeing that the object reference will not change ergo the compiler can make a cache of it inside the runnable object I am just guessing" Aug 21 06:22:35 so, short answer: final is required Aug 21 06:22:46 briswolf: that part is basically correct, yes Aug 21 06:22:55 not even optional if for whatever perverse reason you wanted to leave it off Aug 21 06:22:57 cool. I surrender! Aug 21 06:23:34 it can be a pain if you want to change it within the inner/anonymous class Aug 21 06:24:35 also another thing about defining an interface like i mentioned above is it allows you to reuse that Worker with any client even if it isn't an activity Aug 21 06:28:12 can I use DDMS in eclipse to crearte a tracefile for use in traceview? I can't really work it out... :/ Aug 21 06:33:43 o/ Aug 21 06:35:04 \o Aug 21 06:43:38 err this is a silly question but you cant modify an arraylist as you loop through it huh Aug 21 06:44:01 no you cannot Aug 21 06:44:25 like for (Object o : list) { if(o.equals(guyToRemove)) list.remove(o) } Aug 21 06:44:42 build a new list instead Aug 21 06:45:05 hmm Aug 21 06:45:09 list.remove(guyToRemove) Aug 21 06:45:13 yeah Aug 21 06:45:23 well , err, that was abad shrothand example Aug 21 06:45:26 new list