**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 26 02:59:58 2012 Sep 26 03:00:08 edman007: Error while reading from repository: https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml. Error while reading from repository: https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml. Sep 26 03:00:39 i dunno, my interest in android has only gone up :) Sep 26 03:00:47 benbruscella, click details, what does that say? Sep 26 03:00:54 canadiancow: cow is going higher ! Sep 26 03:01:14 html5 is bullshit Sep 26 03:01:15 edman007: that is the details Sep 26 03:01:16 i think i enjoy the comments the most Sep 26 03:01:24 oh :/ Sep 26 03:01:26 just following http://developer.android.com/sdk/installing/installing-adt.html#Download with a fresh juno install, blows up Sep 26 03:01:33 I mean its getting capable, but I raelly dont see it becoming a replacement for native dev Sep 26 03:01:37 native or mostly native Sep 26 03:02:00 edman007: is there a way to install manually? at least then I could find the missing part Sep 26 03:02:02 honestly heres what android needs Sep 26 03:02:25 benbruscella, open http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ in a browser, what do you see? Sep 26 03:02:26 1) stuff to help eliminate all the nonsensical bs that is sometimes associated with somewhat typical / simple tasks Sep 26 03:02:53 we need a compat lib for our compat lib ! Sep 26 03:02:57 XD Sep 26 03:03:04 edman007: that works fine Sep 26 03:03:05 2) adt should at least consider helping contribute to idea or something else, because I've had more problems with eclipse than anything else Sep 26 03:03:16 "To install this plugin, please use the Update mechanism from within Eclipse and provide it with the following URL:" etc Sep 26 03:03:28 I think the key to new features should be put as much as they can IN the compat lib Sep 26 03:03:38 benbruscella, what are you trying to do anyways? update? just download the zip if that works Sep 26 03:03:47 because that would significantly help with "fragmentation" Sep 26 03:03:51 trying to install art plugin Sep 26 03:03:59 adt plugin Sep 26 03:04:07 http://developer.android.com/sdk/installing/installing-adt.html#Download Sep 26 03:05:30 after p4 shititng the bed for the 25th time Sep 26 03:05:39 I think we're almost ready to move to something like git or mercurial Sep 26 03:05:47 and if we do that, BYE BYE eclipse Sep 26 03:06:06 hehe, just now ready to move to git? :) Sep 26 03:06:14 its been a long road Sep 26 03:06:25 we're paying damn near 800 bucks every developer Sep 26 03:06:27 i just realized how old git was Sep 26 03:06:30 i'd say the same for my time with git ;) Sep 26 03:06:45 git is more pleasant to deal with (and I'm no expert at all) Sep 26 03:06:50 i switched to git almost immediately after learning what it was hehe Sep 26 03:07:13 commercial and a pile of shit and perforce bitches when we complain abut data integrity problems Sep 26 03:07:16 fuck em Sep 26 03:07:37 ron_frown: it was interesting to see that ThoughtWorks moved git into the 'adopt' category for enterprise adoption; maybe you can use that for ammo if the scm guys need persuading Sep 26 03:07:49 benbruscella, if you can download this zip http://dl.google.com/android/ADT-20.0.3.zip Sep 26 03:07:57 g00s I dont know what that means Sep 26 03:08:06 I know whats going to prevent my work from moving to git Sep 26 03:08:12 and then instead of doing the URL you just click archive and select the zip Sep 26 03:08:12 that its slightly more complicated Sep 26 03:08:23 edman007: ok cheers Sep 26 03:10:17 my work ist the type wher eyou make it slightly more complex and bam its dealbreaker Sep 26 03:10:30 nevermind that complexity adds tons of flexibility Sep 26 03:11:03 more and more i start to think of complexity as just a filter on intelligence :) Sep 26 03:12:11 aint that the trutch Sep 26 03:12:13 truth Sep 26 03:12:25 my work was not letting me do anything remotely complex mostly because they didnt understand it Sep 26 03:12:33 but thankfully that appears to have changed Sep 26 03:12:35 sorry for typos Sep 26 03:12:43 you should just quit Sep 26 03:12:45 that's what i did. Sep 26 03:12:46 ;) Sep 26 03:12:59 I'm currently inebriated Sep 26 03:13:07 oh, then you should definitely quit Sep 26 03:13:10 and by that I mean hammered as fuck from drinking wine Sep 26 03:13:13 haha Sep 26 03:13:36 so, you guys would laugh if i told you what i'm doing... Sep 26 03:13:59 i maintain a huge ass google docs file of all the interview questions i've ever been asked myself and also ones collected from others that they either were asked or have asked themselves Sep 26 03:14:13 and i basically treat this document like a queue. Sep 26 03:14:18 i'm working through that queue. Sep 26 03:15:02 perhaps this will be some kind of feat to some day complete an interview entirely from memory :) Sep 26 03:15:39 p.s. twitter asks some very weird questions. definite outliars. Sep 26 03:16:46 hmm, i thought chrome 22 was supposed to have DNT - even if its bs Sep 26 03:16:49 I've come up with mu official position on that Sep 26 03:16:56 like, really odd ones such as: "given an _invalid_ binary tree, write a method to find a value in it." Sep 26 03:17:18 g00s: 23 I think Sep 26 03:17:24 if job interview tries to get too technical, like crazy ass problem solving etc Sep 26 03:17:30 I just walk away Sep 26 03:17:31 HAHAHA Sep 26 03:17:38 leslie: oh, thanks. i was wasting time trying to find it :) Sep 26 03:17:51 it's in the dev channel release at least Sep 26 03:18:10 this one company told me to write somehting that works liek a http robot, and does pattern matching etc.. Sep 26 03:18:11 so I did Sep 26 03:18:28 took a week to get back to me because the way I built it was like 10x faster than what they had (and thats their main product) Sep 26 03:18:42 they had to have their main engineer understand how I was achieving it etc Sep 26 03:18:42 haha Sep 26 03:19:26 working at this latest company, i finally understand why CS problems are so relevant in interviews... Sep 26 03:19:38 even when you are solving core CS problems so rarely... Sep 26 03:20:13 and it's simply this: when you have a core CS problem in front of you, you need to recognize that. Sep 26 03:21:20 I usually bomb those questions, but you should see the shit I've built for my current employer =) Sep 26 03:21:22 so I dont try Sep 26 03:21:37 well then i'm probably describing you in that comment. Sep 26 03:22:00 I do recognize it Sep 26 03:22:25 I've just seen a lot of total bs question Sep 26 03:22:34 because one of the most infuriating revelations of my career has come recently when i discovered that my coworkers are so averse and ignorant to the core tenents of computer science that they simply cannot solve certain classes of problems. Sep 26 03:22:46 welcome to my world Sep 26 03:22:53 we had a few such problems sprout up, and no one could recognize them for what they were. Sep 26 03:22:54 jasta: what kinds of things have they been ignorant of ? Sep 26 03:23:09 jasta: How does the quote run? "People would rather live with a problem they cannot solve, than live with a solution they cannot understand." Sep 26 03:23:21 I'm uneducated... and yet I've managed to slap together ORM's and my own database engine (well lets say 80% of it) Sep 26 03:23:49 I work with a dev who 'slaps together' his own ORMs and database engines... which is the problem. Sep 26 03:23:58 So if Bundle extras .getInt() returns null, does it return a 0? Sep 26 03:24:37 when I say slap, I dont mean bad design or bad planning Sep 26 03:25:05 uses core cs concepts Sep 26 03:25:22 B+tree, bloom filters, rtree, octtree Sep 26 03:25:23 etc Sep 26 03:25:24 core CS concepts aren't just a checklist. Sep 26 03:25:28 g00s: the one that's eating at me so much is recently we had a requirement a la Google Maps to highlight areas of our maps Sep 26 03:25:37 my internets is so slow right now =( Sep 26 03:25:58 but it became apparent quickly that it was a hierarchical problem, we needed to highlight potentially all different layers (in google's world, that might be like highlighting a city region in red and the state in blue) Sep 26 03:26:10 jasta and then? +0 Sep 26 03:26:11 do it Sep 26 03:26:32 so, i said, "shit, we have a tree problem here and we missed it. we have to redesign a bit." Sep 26 03:26:40 sweet Sep 26 03:27:03 and all my coworkers looked at me like i'm crazy. and no matter how much i tried to explain that this is now hierarchical, and we need a tree-based spatial index to support it, they couldn't grasp that conclusion. Sep 26 03:27:34 jasta: so in that situation, they were 2OI http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?OrdersOfIgnorance Sep 26 03:27:40 even the educated engineers I work with couldnt actually APPLY the concepts Sep 26 03:27:52 i fought and argued for a long time, and when i left the room, i later found out they were so bewildered by my assertions and comments that they ignored them outright and went off and added columns to the database akin to shapeNeighborhoodLevel, shapeCityLevel, shapeStateLevel, etc. Sep 26 03:28:04 g00s I suspec tthat list goes hand in hand with the "kruger effect" Sep 26 03:28:26 this light bulb went off in my head thinking: "yes! this is why google asks so many graph and tree questions in interviews!" Sep 26 03:28:29 heh, indeed ron_frown Sep 26 03:28:38 jasta: Try explaining coroutines, closures, partial evaluation, and immutability to a coder who's used C++ too much... Sep 26 03:28:38 because when the problems do show up, rare as they might be on a daily basis, you _MUST_ recognize it. Sep 26 03:28:53 I remember some fresh out of school kid "schooled me" on algorithmic complexity, then proceeded to manipulate a function that handled like 500k transactions a min Sep 26 03:29:01 making each take at LEAST 2x as long Sep 26 03:29:08 My boss works as a recruiter for hte military part time Sep 26 03:29:10 jasta: I watch them regularly reinvent all these concepts over and over, and _not recognize them_. Sep 26 03:29:23 Hodapp: i had another such problem show up lately too Sep 26 03:29:25 and she had to say to everyone she interviewed 'what would you say if I told you this interview was going bad?' Sep 26 03:29:37 where in a room whiteboarding, i realized in 10 minutes we were essentially designing a thread pool executor type pattern Sep 26 03:29:53 Hodapp - I'd rather hav epeople recognize the need for those concepts tho... my current coworkers are like people that learned c# 1.0 and never anything past that Sep 26 03:30:03 to some extent even generics was mindblowing to them Sep 26 03:30:05 1 resource that can only be accessed in series, and n tasks that need to be performed, with no ability to cancel tasks. Sep 26 03:30:12 cancel already running tasks Sep 26 03:30:17 jasta: maybe somebody can buy this book for them :) http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Multidimensional-Structures-Kaufmann-Computer/dp/0123694469 Sep 26 03:30:22 and i'm like "oh, duh, this pattern already exists. let's just copy it." Sep 26 03:30:29 hell, i need to read it too Sep 26 03:30:37 but no one else could see it. they insisted on going down this long ass path of designing it like it was something we invented. Sep 26 03:30:46 I like the bigger picture design Sep 26 03:30:55 I'm more of an architect than a regular software engineer Sep 26 03:31:15 i think the best architects are the best devs Sep 26 03:31:32 until you get into eneterprise architecture, thats more ontology & politics Sep 26 03:31:55 anyway Sep 26 03:32:03 these and many other realizations caused me to quit my job last week. Sep 26 03:32:10 oh my ! Sep 26 03:32:14 Morning guys. I have a problem with the camera intent. I use this code to use the inbuilt cam app : https://gist.github.com/3783290 But I get null pointer with data.getData() Sep 26 03:32:36 i want so desperately now to be on a team where i don't have to force someone to be excited about solving a tree-based problem. Sep 26 03:32:39 booya BITCHES Sep 26 03:32:46 quad exynos dev board on its way! Sep 26 03:33:42 jasta we had a need to be able to visualize some objects in 3d space, so I built something that renders it in 3d viewport from a prebuilt octtree... and it was blowing coworkers minds Sep 26 03:33:46 cool, a new fixed width font http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html Sep 26 03:33:53 the customer was all but creaming themselves Sep 26 03:33:54 ANWYAY Sep 26 03:34:17 they didnt understand the tree implementation or why it was necessary (which may be my inability to explain the need) Sep 26 03:34:41 they told me rip it all out, and just build the 3d interface Sep 26 03:34:54 * Mgamerz feels dumb listening to this conversation Sep 26 03:35:07 dont Sep 26 03:35:33 the reality is a *LOT* of jobs really dont need crazy datastructure implementations (at least ones that arent in just about every programming language) Sep 26 03:36:02 the more i am at this, the more i am convinced that programming is more a social endeavor than anything Sep 26 03:36:11 if you are socially inept ... Sep 26 03:36:14 :) Sep 26 03:36:32 almost everything requires teamwork and working well with everyone Sep 26 03:36:42 unless you coworkers are retarded Sep 26 03:36:44 and then you can just try Sep 26 03:36:59 actually Sep 26 03:37:17 g00s: two different concepts there entirely: the industry, and the act. Sep 26 03:37:18 I can say I got a guy that just started programming, but I could tell this dude was the "type" Sep 26 03:37:24 I do programming as a hobby. Taking a CS degree at my university. I work as IT for the US government as my job Sep 26 03:37:28 programming, the act, doesn't require teamwork. the industry, though, does. Sep 26 03:37:40 I do some programming though when I need to automate some stuff in the workplace. Sep 26 03:37:43 the industry also requires a bunch of other crud that most programmers don't know how to do, and shouldn't do. Sep 26 03:37:47 see Im socially inept Sep 26 03:37:56 ron_frown: we know Sep 26 03:38:01 XD Sep 26 03:38:11 just kidding Sep 26 03:38:27 g00s: in other news. i'm taking a full month off between jobs here. i'm going to get my book off the ground. Sep 26 03:38:41 jasta: what is the book about ? Sep 26 03:38:44 give it redbull Sep 26 03:38:48 hmm, i thought i had told you once before Sep 26 03:39:07 Am I the only programmer who doesn't seem to use coffee/energy drinks to stay up coding till 4AM? Sep 26 03:39:13 perhaps … trying to recall Sep 26 03:39:16 I'm an INTP, I value knowledge over people Sep 26 03:39:17 haha Sep 26 03:39:28 ron_frown: heh, i'm inTP too Sep 26 03:39:45 well, in a nutshell: it is a self-help book for programmers. it is a catalog of all the habits of bad engineers and how to not be one yourself. Sep 26 03:39:51 Mgamerz: I live off of tea, but I'm british and incidentally, it is 4:40 :) Sep 26 03:39:59 it's a reflection of everything that you all on IRC have taught me :) Sep 26 03:40:02 jasta: ah, a book of antipatterns Sep 26 03:40:06 no. Sep 26 03:40:10 Mgamerz, no, you're not Sep 26 03:40:15 I don't drink tea either... I feel so out of place with my collegues Sep 26 03:40:16 it is not so technical in nature. Sep 26 03:40:17 I don't drink tea or coffee Sep 26 03:40:28 i am approaching this topic from the human perspective. Sep 26 03:40:30 Though this coffee shop downtown has some wicked chocolate shake thing Sep 26 03:40:36 it kind of tastes like coffee Sep 26 03:40:48 so thats worth something right? Sep 26 03:40:51 the why, the motivation, the intuition of how to do this job well. Sep 26 03:40:57 Mgamerz - I feel out of place with my coworkers because my coworkers are HUGE w.o.w. zealots Sep 26 03:41:08 never played wow Sep 26 03:41:13 every 3rd word is about their level 80 mage witch pet Sep 26 03:41:15 this and that Sep 26 03:41:21 grinding and buffing and whatever Sep 26 03:41:27 I have never played either Sep 26 03:41:35 tried playing torchlight that came with the humble bundle. Too many damn buttons, not enough story. Or interesting stuff. Sep 26 03:42:09 Must say faster than light is addictive. Its like an 80s game (Rougelike) with me as captain picard. WAnted to program this weekend. Played that game instead. Sep 26 03:42:24 Thats how the summer went too... Damn Mass Effect 3. Sep 26 03:42:29 ron_frown jasta, i'm afraid i'm one of the types you two are talking about -_- could you point me to the path of getting better? Sep 26 03:42:29 jasta: have you read peopleware ? Sep 26 03:42:37 i really want to improve Sep 26 03:42:51 no, but im looking now Sep 26 03:43:02 my addiction is exploration, and learning Sep 26 03:43:03 its a classic Sep 26 03:43:18 that was the reasoning for my db, was learning how things built so I can build them better =) Sep 26 03:43:27 my 10 second read of the summary tells me this is orthogonal to my topic Sep 26 03:43:33 ok Sep 26 03:44:05 Whoever designed this physics flash applet did a horrendous job. Sep 26 03:44:15 If you move the mouse out of hte applet the menus close. Sep 26 03:45:20 Architects prize intelligence, and with their grand desire to grasp the structure of the universe, they can seem arrogant and may show impatience with others who have less ability, or who are less driven. Sep 26 03:45:24 describes me to a t Sep 26 03:45:27 And the mouse... falls behind the system mouse... and they expect me to draw a straight line? Sep 26 03:45:31 g00s: for example, one major topic i'm developing is what i've currently dubbed the living room concept. it is a nuanced idea summarized simply that programming is a creative endeavour, not unlike interior design, with one common core tenent: you must ensure your software is immediately recognizable to others. Sep 26 03:45:42 meh, arrogance is useful sometimes. Sep 26 03:45:53 Most times not. But it's motivational sometimes. Sep 26 03:46:00 g00s: if you are designing a system with an event loop, for example, it must be immediately known that your design has the event loop pattern in it. Sep 26 03:46:13 I thnk thats common sense Sep 26 03:46:30 the name of your classes, the organization of the code, etc, all must follow in a fashion that can be seen at a distance to be what it is: a common component. Sep 26 03:46:45 your creativity is still there: but you can't stray far from the norm. Sep 26 03:46:54 jasta: i dont understand how that is different from a pattern language Sep 26 03:47:16 a nuanced detail, however: the only way you learn how to design your living room so it doesn't look like a bathroom is by being in so many other living rooms through your lifetime before you find yourself owning your own space to design. Sep 26 03:47:33 I dont think creativity has to make anything obfuscated... the concepts are solid Sep 26 03:47:40 its elegance in how the solution is architected Sep 26 03:47:41 good programmers must understand that reading code, even recreationally, is an essential step to understanding how to design recognizable systems. Sep 26 03:47:54 the components you put together and how you orchestrate it Sep 26 03:48:04 I do that all the time at our linux lab, I go in there just to help people. OTher people think I waste my time Sep 26 03:48:25 people that genuinely want to learn are a pleasure to teach Sep 26 03:48:26 Spent 2 hours with a new person learning C trying to figure out why pow(x,y) didn't work but pow(2,3) worked if x=2 and y=3 Sep 26 03:48:28 MOST of the time Sep 26 03:48:49 apparently you need -lm in the compiler for substitions with variables... which makes no sense Sep 26 03:49:08 this kid we hired took it upon himself to build a couple tinkering android apps Sep 26 03:49:22 we hired him with exactly that experience and hes come a long way fast Sep 26 03:49:23 tinkering android apps? Sep 26 03:49:30 g00s: well, the last 2 sentences after yours should explain why :) Sep 26 03:49:34 you mean he did it as a hobby? Sep 26 03:49:39 just little mostly useless apps that just help him with his life Sep 26 03:49:43 yeah Sep 26 03:49:44 oh Sep 26 03:49:51 sounds like me... except i try to help devs instead Sep 26 03:50:00 and then google releases jellybean, breaking my app -_- Sep 26 03:50:05 I'm obsessed, I work 8hr day porting android, building crazy infrastrcutres etc Sep 26 03:50:13 and then I come home and work another 8hr tinkering on my own Sep 26 03:50:34 Hopefully you use a laptop Sep 26 03:50:42 so you know, people know you exist outside of your cave Sep 26 03:50:43 at home stuff isnt for work =) Sep 26 03:50:46 oh yeah Sep 26 03:50:56 g00s: another pattern ive observed of successful engineers is that they prove their assumptions, and they go to great lengths to do so in some cases. Sep 26 03:51:03 Do you use an ergonomic keyboard then? Sep 26 03:51:06 no Sep 26 03:51:14 And you can program all day? Sep 26 03:51:20 building entire "throw away" test projects just to make sure some library does what they think it does before they select it in their architecture, for example. Sep 26 03:51:22 the way I see it that mostly benefits from peopel who do home row typing Sep 26 03:51:28 jasta Sep 26 03:51:29 POC's Sep 26 03:51:34 thats the only way to go Sep 26 03:51:38 for some people. Sep 26 03:51:40 jasta: yeah, thats sounds like one of the principles in PragProg : verify riskiest assumptions first Sep 26 03:51:40 isolate the functioanlity test, integrate Sep 26 03:51:41 home row typing? as opposed to...? Sep 26 03:52:23 Mgamerz my typing must look like some amazing pianist where their hands are on their side of the keyboard, sometimes on opposite sides of the keyboards Sep 26 03:52:25 moving Sep 26 03:52:30 g00s: these are two small examples of a larger package i want to put together that is both a catalog of these habits and also clear and constructive methods to overcome them. Sep 26 03:52:45 They should make a piano keyboard for computers Sep 26 03:52:55 that'd be cool... impractical, but cool Sep 26 03:53:00 'music for programmers' Sep 26 03:53:19 mgamers the thing is, if you are doing it right, it wouldnt really matter Sep 26 03:53:27 typing to me is totally subliminal Sep 26 03:54:05 ME too, but I got RSI coding over the summer a year ago. Had ot get an ergo keyboard (though its pretty damn nice once you learn it) Sep 26 03:54:14 offload repetitive tasks to subconcious Sep 26 03:54:31 at work sometimes people have ot type on my keyboard. they hate it with a passion. I tell them I hate their trackball mice with a passion. we agree to disagree Sep 26 03:54:37 jasta: are you thinking of self publishing; amazon, etc ? Sep 26 03:54:39 all day long on mbp keyboard =-) Sep 26 03:54:52 g00s: my position is pretty unique having nearly been raised on IRC. i feel like i've seen so many bad habits just smack me in the face over the years of trying to help folks on here that i just can't in good conscious keep these things only in my head and my IRC logs any more :) Sep 26 03:55:13 conscience :) Sep 26 03:55:47 anyway, gotta run. Sep 26 03:56:07 jasta: ok cool, good luck. if i had more time i would offer time as proofreader or something Sep 26 03:56:40 Mgamerz: because i'm amused by gcc-isms, you probably ran into a conflict w/ the builtin pow defined here: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.4.2/gcc/Other-Builtins.html Sep 26 03:57:01 good thing ctrl f exists Sep 26 03:57:19 Mgamerz: which is defined as double, int. int, int would be a different signature and it wouldn't find it. libm would probably provide a pow(int, int) Sep 26 03:57:33 or at least enough of a real header to cast it. You'd still want to include math.h explicitly Sep 26 03:57:40 But we used pow(2,3) which worked fine Sep 26 03:57:49 Mgamerz: since 2 can alias to a double Sep 26 03:57:58 and we did pow(x,y) which didn't work, nor did pow((double)x,(double)y) Sep 26 03:58:01 Mgamerz: I bet you (int) 2 would fail Sep 26 03:58:08 Mgamerz: double x, int y would I expect work Sep 26 03:58:20 c++ has blown my mind Sep 26 03:58:21 I don't have the program with me. It was for a intro to C Sep 26 03:58:31 jasta: i leave you with this quote from torvalds http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/163185/torvalds-quote-about-good-programmer Sep 26 03:58:37 gotta run myself Sep 26 03:58:39 Wish I could go back and retake microprocessors... that class was fun Sep 26 03:58:42 the fact that you can override delete or override () Sep 26 03:58:44 thats nuts Sep 26 03:58:47 Mgamerz: anyhow it's bad form to not include math.h and leads to crap like this Sep 26 03:58:57 it included math.h Sep 26 03:59:16 ron_frown: c++ is a god damned mess, but it works pretty well Sep 26 03:59:25 I dont know Sep 26 03:59:28 ron_frown: tho i write c++ like I write c for the most part Sep 26 03:59:29 I dont know if I'd call it a mess Sep 26 03:59:34 you can make perversions in any language tho Sep 26 03:59:59 I'd say its hard to read a lot of the time (mainly because I like java/c# naming conventions etc) Sep 26 04:00:21 ron_frown: all depends how someone writes it Sep 26 04:00:27 ron_frown: (obviously) Sep 26 04:00:34 but its got a therapeutic , and elegant feel to it Sep 26 04:01:01 its super powerful because you can shorcut stuff, or you can basically change how C++ language works, to serve your needs better (even if it makes it damn near impossilbe to read) Sep 26 04:01:08 java is the opposite of everything you just said Sep 26 04:01:10 ron_frown: some things that should be easy are a real pain, boost kind of solves them, and the new c++ standard kind of solves them Sep 26 04:01:39 new c++ standard imo brings c++ into c# realm Sep 26 04:01:52 I think there are some really elegant things about c# but.. Sep 26 04:01:53 unfortunately since my biggest project is about 120k lines of c++ and has to compile on 3 platforms and all the distributions, I can't count on the new c++ standards Sep 26 04:01:56 or libboost being installed Sep 26 04:02:08 so annoying C-space callbacks rule the day Sep 26 04:02:16 boost is all header based now isnt it or at least mostly? Sep 26 04:02:28 mostly Sep 26 04:02:54 my favorite lib in boost is spirit Sep 26 04:03:35 well folks Sep 26 04:03:41 I have physics at 7:30AM Sep 26 04:03:43 So I must depart Sep 26 04:03:54 It has been nice chatting with you, I shall be back someday soon I bet. Sep 26 04:03:57 g'night; Sep 26 04:04:41 System.exit(1); Sep 26 04:05:03 oh yeah, boost MSM was awesome too Sep 26 04:05:26 yeah really wish i could use boost more Sep 26 04:05:42 it makes c++ barely tolerable Sep 26 04:05:47 :) Sep 26 04:06:13 oh no, maybe i used Boost.Statechart … not MSM Sep 26 04:07:00 ron_frown: you need one of these http://www.gizmag.com/ostrich-pillow-returns/24181/ Sep 26 04:07:07 i dont know why, i just have a hunch Sep 26 04:07:57 g00s no Sep 26 04:08:22 I'd freak out about suffocating Sep 26 04:10:09 yeah, but then you wouldn't be able to talk so much Sep 26 04:10:13 :) Sep 26 04:30:31 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12594549/why-i-failed-to-run-android-in-eclipse Sep 26 04:38:54 ello =) Sep 26 05:10:41 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12594898/why-i-cannot-create-android-virtual-device Sep 26 05:23:12 hey what's the default android font size? Sep 26 05:26:30 <_klk_> hi all. i'm trying to compile a C++ program for android platform (armv7 target). i'm brand new to android and am having trouble compiling even a simple program. i've grabbed the android platform source and successfully compiled the platform for armv7 target. now, i'm trying to compile my test program. here's the source: http://pastebin.com/RZeddZpv and here's my Makefile: http://pastebin.com/yYEaRraL . Here's what happens when I try to compile: Sep 26 05:26:43 <_klk_> any help would be appreciated! Sep 26 05:30:49 Why is google doing this to us in the NDK? checking host system type... Invalid configuration `arm-linux-androideabi': system `androideabi' not recognized Sep 26 05:31:33 Nothing in in search , but about replacing config.guess & config.sub to newer versions Sep 26 05:32:24 _klk_: because Anroid is Java! Yea! Sep 26 05:32:30 you have to use the NDK Sep 26 05:39:05 <_klk_> KNERD: :P, ok. i'll get NDK Sep 26 05:39:40 _klk_: NDK is for C++ Sep 26 05:40:09 <_klk_> KNERD: Do I need the full android source AND ndk? or just nDK? Sep 26 05:40:20 everything Sep 26 05:40:30 SDK, and ADT for Eclipse Sep 26 05:40:43 though using Elcipse is optional Sep 26 05:40:49 though it would be easier Sep 26 05:41:05 If only Eclipse wouldn't sucks so much Sep 26 05:46:02 <_klk_> KNERD: can i use NDK even if i am not developing an application (i.e. no Java or JNI, only C++)? Sep 26 05:47:49 anyone here has experience of playing videos using medialplayer of android Sep 26 05:48:38 I am getting audio only, no videa == black screen only Sep 26 05:53:11 usually that means a bad video codec, but i don't do android video stuff much so that's all I've got Sep 26 05:53:40 the stream plays with moboplayer perfectly fine Sep 26 05:54:17 _klk_: he NDK is when you are not using Java Sep 26 05:54:18 JakeWharton, are you here? Sep 26 05:54:23 negative ghost rider Sep 26 05:55:11 _klk_: it is for being able to use non-native code in Android Sep 26 05:55:27 _klk_: you can compile standalone binaries with it, usually Sep 26 05:56:06 _klk_: depending on how complex what you're trying to do with it is, in terms of system headers that may not be present in the NDK toolchain Sep 26 05:57:16 Why is google doing this to us in the NDK? checking host system type... Invalid configuration `arm-linux-androideabi': system `androideabi' not recognized Sep 26 05:57:33 Nothing in in search , but about replacing config.guess & config.sub to newer versions Sep 26 05:57:38 _klk_: look into BUILD_EXECUTEABLE in android.mk for building standalone binaries. The most common use for the NDK *is* for JNI-linked libraries though Sep 26 05:58:45 no sense into going for that much trouble when g++ will do fine Sep 26 05:59:00 or Visual C++ Sep 26 06:01:27 depending on what you're doing it pays to do things right. I also wouldn't want to try to get visual c++ compiling for arm+mips+intel consistently Sep 26 06:01:28 wow, its amazing apple hand-layout the a6 Sep 26 06:02:11 Well he did say he was new to android Sep 26 06:02:33 why use C++ when Andoid ddoes not use it? Sep 26 06:02:38 I need to make a request to an API with json response, but sometimes the response is very slow how should I handle this ? Sep 26 06:02:44 all the more reason to learn the right way to do it. Spending 5 minutes generating an android.mk is worth your effort. Sep 26 06:03:24 KNERD: because it's usable in the NDK environment. There's a lot of code written in C++ with JNI bindings. Sep 26 06:04:01 hmmm Sep 26 06:07:19 many game engines are in C++, as well as a multitude of other libraries Sep 26 06:07:39 * napster updated to ADT r21 :) Sep 26 06:08:18 I do C++ on 6 mobile platforms, including Android. Sep 26 06:08:56 BadDesign: Are you following Necessitas ? Sep 26 06:09:13 Nope. Sep 26 06:09:32 Don't use Qt that much, as of yet. Sep 26 06:09:40 ok Sep 26 06:09:47 Although I'm a KDE user :) Sep 26 06:11:05 <_klk_> yeah, i am porting an existing c++ application that we have written for other devices to a new platform that's android based Sep 26 06:11:18 <_klk_> we make pretty heavy use of c++ headers and stl classes Sep 26 06:11:41 <_klk_> i found a documentation in NDK called STANDALONE-TOOLCHAIN.html Sep 26 06:11:45 _klk_: I've ported 100k+ line programs w/ the NDK that use STL heavily. W/ modern NDK versions it's not a problem Sep 26 06:11:54 <_klk_> i'm hoping it will be the simplest way to compile what i need Sep 26 06:12:02 <_klk_> dragorn: ok, that's good to hear! Sep 26 06:12:23 _klk_: what will be an issue for you is executing them standalone. It's doable if you plan to just have them in a terminal app or something. Depends on how advanced your users are Sep 26 06:12:56 <_klk_> dragorn: yes, it's just a daemon that our platform partner will launch on startup Sep 26 06:19:11 I need to make a request to an API with json response, but sometimes the response is very slow how should I handle this ? Sep 26 06:22:28 tagrudev: run it in a thread and deal with it when it responds Sep 26 06:23:04 dragorn, ty Sep 26 06:24:20 tagrudev: also consider investigating asynctasks; they handle most of the UI considerations. At it's simplest though, run it in a thread, notify main when its done Sep 26 06:25:23 well I need to make the request show a loader of somekind block the activity and when it finishes show the response Sep 26 06:25:39 and I am wondering on what is the best practice of doing this Sep 26 06:31:39 hi Sep 26 06:32:07 it's so quiet in here Sep 26 06:32:13 Hello, I have problem with actionbar api 11 (android 3.0).. when I try to change icon like this actionBar.setIcon(new BitmapDrawable(getResources(),logoDraw)); I get error message: "NoSuchMethodError" but the same code works for higher versions like android 4+. any suggestions, how to make it work on api 11? Sep 26 06:32:39 sorry, which "vibrate setting" does the RINGER_MODE_NORMAL documentation referring to? "It will vibrate if the vibrate setting is on". the vibrate settings i knew are now all deprecated, thanks. Sep 26 06:33:36 setIcon-function is only available for apis >= 14 Sep 26 06:34:05 so torniker, you might want to use JakeWharton's ActionBarSherlock Sep 26 06:34:10 http://actionbarsherlock.com/ Sep 26 06:34:13 vavirta, is there any similar method for api 11-14? Sep 26 06:34:28 getIcon is API 14+ only Sep 26 06:34:32 setIcon* Sep 26 06:34:35 vavirta, ok so sherlock is the only way? Sep 26 06:34:45 I think so, what JakeWharton thinks? Sep 26 06:36:30 vavirta, thanks I'll try using sherlock Sep 26 06:42:58 anyone have a moment to look at a snapshot of my drawing of the app I need to make (life-saving app) Sep 26 06:43:08 http://www.flickr.com/photos/32284628@N05/8025774223/ Sep 26 06:43:14