**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 31 02:59:59 2012
Dec 31 03:01:38 <Napalm> maslen: java already has this, Method.invoke
Dec 31 03:02:08 <maslen> Napalm: Hmm, I've been trying to avoid reflection.
Dec 31 03:02:26 <maslen> How _truly_ bad is the performance of it? :(
Dec 31 03:02:28 <Napalm> maslen: why are you trying to do exactly?
Dec 31 03:04:49 <Napalm> maslen: correction *what are you
Dec 31 03:05:42 <RustyShackleford> http://developer.android.com/reference/java/net/HttpURLConnection.html
Dec 31 03:06:08 <RustyShackleford> in the example there, after "InputStream in = new BufferedInputStream(urlConnection.getInputStream());" is executed, has the entire request be retrieved?
Dec 31 03:08:20 <maslen> Napalm: I have two objects created in two different Services. Both of those objects call into the foreground Activity. I need a way to tell which Service is calling into the Activity.
Dec 31 03:09:11 <maslen> I can't change any of the code that uses the object, so I can't change it's constructor or the like to throw in a Service ID or anything like that
Dec 31 03:09:31 <maslen> (my task is related to wrapping android calls)
Dec 31 03:10:46 <maslen> The only useful thing I've seen so far is Binder.getCallingPid(), but that seems... like a bad idea
Dec 31 03:11:35 <Napalm> maslen: so your activity binds to both services?
Dec 31 03:11:42 <maslen> yes
Dec 31 03:12:09 <Napalm> and how are you doing this communication with the service?
Dec 31 03:12:46 <Napalm> im not sure i see the problem
Dec 31 03:13:01 <maslen> Which aspect of the communication?
Dec 31 03:13:42 <Napalm> ok your problem is what exactly, you need to tell which service called a method in your activity??
Dec 31 03:13:46 <maslen> Yes
Dec 31 03:13:51 <voso> i would need help identifying why the most basic GLSurfaceView/Renderer code (e.g. a single triangle) is causing GC runs in about every 10 seconds. Allocation tracker shows nothing. There is nothing in my code that would allocate new objects. Anyone had similar issues?
Dec 31 03:14:18 <AmandaC> voso: other apps might be getting GC'd?
Dec 31 03:14:42 <JesusFreke> voso: what android version are you running on?
Dec 31 03:14:51 <voso> unlikely, since if I bring either the home scr, or another app of mine (not using GL), then GC never runs..
Dec 31 03:15:00 <Napalm> maslen: sounds to me like its architected wrong, your services should not be calling methods on an activity
Dec 31 03:15:01 <voso> 4.1 JB
Dec 31 03:15:05 <voso> Nexus S.
Dec 31 03:15:12 <voso> stock.
Dec 31 03:15:17 <JesusFreke> voso: you can see what process the logcat message comes from. i.e. whether it's a GC in your process or not
Dec 31 03:15:18 <maslen> Napalm: How else can I have two-way communication between a Service and an App?
Dec 31 03:15:40 <Napalm> lots of ways
Dec 31 03:15:41 <Napalm> lol
Dec 31 03:15:46 <JesusFreke> voso: k. dunno then :). There was a bug in <= HC, where certain operations allocated memory but didn't show in the allocation tracker
Dec 31 03:15:47 <voso> JF: googd point. its mine.
Dec 31 03:16:09 <maslen> I need Events that the Activity receives to be sent to the Service and for the Service to be able to send data to the App
Dec 31 03:16:14 <voso> i've been spending the last 6 hours profiling my app.
Dec 31 03:16:29 <voso> mostly with systrace and its new html5 results..
Dec 31 03:17:07 <voso> going crazy over 60FPS, frames rendered <0.5ms, yet still JANKy!!
Dec 31 03:17:11 <Napalm> maslen: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/os/Message.html
Dec 31 03:18:38 <maslen> Napalm: I apologize for my naivety, but how does this help?
Dec 31 03:19:47 <maslen> Currently, the Services are implemented via Extending Binder, although I plan to shortly move them over to using AIDL (so they run in separate processes)
Dec 31 03:20:20 <maslen> This seems like a much more cumbersome communication mechanism
Dec 31 03:20:55 <voso> JF: the PID belongs to the system_server process, but I assume thats either SurfaceFlinger, or something similar, since that process grabs CPU only when I start my GL loop..
Dec 31 03:22:03 <voso> has anyone ever written a 'butter-smooth' GL loop in Java? I am starting to doubt its possible..
Dec 31 03:22:50 <Napalm> maslen: i still dont see why you cant pass an identifer or even create two interfaces and that part of the service connection
Dec 31 03:24:06 <maslen> Napalm: Because this object that's within the service has no idea which service it was created in, and so can't pass that information to the Activity it's calling into
Dec 31 03:28:15 <verdagon> GLORY TO THE ANDROID DEVELOPERS! I humbly ask, can anyone tell me why ContactsContract.Data.CONTENT_URI's projection can contain ContactsContract.CommonDataKinds.GroupMembership.CONTACT_ID, when its nowhere in the documentation?
Dec 31 03:28:25 <maslen> my ears!
Dec 31 03:28:39 <verdagon> im looking at http://developer.android.com/reference/android/provider/ContactsContract.Data.html and it says nothing about that column
Dec 31 03:28:40 <verdagon> lol
Dec 31 03:30:06 <g00s> verdagon: you pretty much have to look at the code for the provider
Dec 31 03:30:42 <verdagon> alright, cool. ive been doing that, but it seems they dont even use the sql tables
Dec 31 03:30:59 <g00s> that shit will make you want to tear your eyes out
Dec 31 03:31:00 <verdagon> they get the RawContacts, then get the DataItems from that, and see if they're group
Dec 31 03:31:21 <verdagon> my problem is performance, so i was hoping to use the tables to do it all in one go...
Dec 31 03:31:44 <verdagon> oh sorry wait, when you said provider, i thought you meant android's built in apps' source code
Dec 31 03:31:50 <verdagon> do you mean the contentprovider?
Dec 31 03:32:27 <g00s> yeah, the cp for contacts
Dec 31 03:32:50 <verdagon> can you help me find that? is that this? http://developer.android.com/reference/android/provider/ContactsContract.Data.html
Dec 31 03:32:50 <g00s> thats what happens when you have a bad idea, and then embed sql into java and stir the shit up
Dec 31 03:32:56 <verdagon> lol
Dec 31 03:33:52 <verdagon> so im looking for the contentprovider... i dont think ive ever seen one of those. is that what ContactsContract.Data.CONTENT_URI refers to? a content provider?
Dec 31 03:34:14 <verdagon> i always thought the URIs referred to tables but a contentprovider would make more sense... that must be the thing that handles all the implicit joins, perhaps?
Dec 31 03:34:28 <g00s> the Contract is just a bunch of constants for the most part
Dec 31 03:35:19 <verdagon> so where would this contentprovider code be? im looking at the Contacts class now, but its all deprecated...
Dec 31 03:35:47 <verdagon> and then it says, see contactscontract lol
Dec 31 03:36:37 <g00s> //packages/providers/ContactsProvider/src/com/android/providers/contacts:
Dec 31 03:36:55 <g00s> its a pretty huge one
Dec 31 03:37:31 <g00s> ContactsProvider2.java i think
Dec 31 03:37:33 <verdagon> awesome thanks. might i ask, how did you find that
Dec 31 03:38:07 <g00s> hmm … i had the source on my machine and remembered the filename
Dec 31 03:38:31 <g00s> good luck, i forgot everything about this
Dec 31 03:38:36 <verdagon> lol k thx
Dec 31 03:38:59 <voso> g00s: you seem to be around a lot. Do you remember ppl writing GL loops from Java (using the GLSurfaceView) crying over GC caused by the system_server even in the simplest of possible loops (no allocations in my app)? Cause I am about to cry already..
Dec 31 03:39:42 <g00s> voso: hmm, honestly i never did any GL. romain would know about that, but i haven't seen him in a while
Dec 31 03:39:50 <g00s> sorry
Dec 31 03:39:59 <voso> ok, np. thx anyway..
Dec 31 03:40:03 <verdagon> lol voso, common complaint about java for games =\
Dec 31 03:40:21 <Bitgod> is graphics hard in android?
Dec 31 03:40:24 <Bitgod> i mean making it in java code
Dec 31 03:40:28 <Bitgod> like a pixel or line
Dec 31 03:40:35 <voso> verdagon: not quite. it should work! all the drawing is done inside GL..
Dec 31 03:41:15 <verdagon> voso: wait, so theres a way to do the drawing in one big chunk, without having java jump in and GC on you?
Dec 31 03:41:53 <voso> if you do not allocate new objects, there is no reason for GC to run.
Dec 31 03:41:58 <voso> and it wont.
Dec 31 03:43:02 <verdagon> well ill be damned, i didnt know that, thats quite cool
Dec 31 03:43:57 <verdagon> so if you allocate all your objects up front, before you do this tight loop, and maybe use some sort of pool to keep them around if you need them during the loop... you can avoid being interrupted
Dec 31 03:44:47 <voso> verdagon: yes
Dec 31 03:44:57 <verdagon> that is AWESOME.
Dec 31 03:49:41 <bfig> hello, i am trying to start myself on game programming for android tablets, i was wondering where can i find examples and useful information. my main concern right now is, do i need to avoid the predefined interface classes and just straight up go for GLES, or is the usual way (for graphic intensive games) to use a lot of activity relrated things
Dec 31 03:54:48 <voso> bfig: I went down the way suggested at http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl.html and am right now trying to figure out why my GL loop is stuttering. Not an easy task. I wish I could recommend you use the Java interface. But at the moment I am just frustrated..
Dec 31 03:55:10 <bfig> are you programming everything in the ndk?
Dec 31 03:55:32 <voso> no. I wanted to avoid having to code in C. But I am having second thoughts now.
Dec 31 03:56:15 <voso> I am just using GLES20.* calls as suggested on the dev site..
Dec 31 04:03:33 <voso> oh my.. I just ran my tests on an LG tablet: it runs supersmooth, and there are no GC interruptions at all from the system_server/SurfaceFlinger process.
Dec 31 04:05:30 <JesusFreke> voso: You mentioned "GC caused by the system_server"
Dec 31 04:05:43 <JesusFreke> the GC is happening in the system_server? or in your application's process?
Dec 31 04:06:11 <voso> in the system_server process.
Dec 31 04:06:18 <voso> I assume its SurfaceFlinger
Dec 31 04:06:49 <voso> looking at systrace graphs I can see hickups in eglSwapBuffer() calls
Dec 31 04:07:36 <voso> but all of this seems only happening on the Nexus S. The LG seems perfect (running a custom 4.1 JB build).
Dec 31 04:11:37 <JesusFreke> voso: depending on how deep you want to dive, you might look at the source for the platform version on your nexus s. maybe even build it and debug into the system_server to figure out what's going on, (and hopefully how to avoid it)
Dec 31 04:14:06 <voso> I was actually considering doing that. Not now though - I am in Prague, and basically I spent all night trying to figure out what I was doing wrong (we have 5:15AM now ;) and feel a bit sick about all the time I put into trying to build a 'butter-smooth' app..
Dec 31 04:14:33 <voso> should have just used the canvas..
Dec 31 04:14:56 <lighthazard> Is there any way to make a FragmentLayout simulate a RelativeLayout?
Dec 31 04:15:26 <lighthazard> I feel like putting a relativelayout inside a fragmentlayout is causing my error that a specific child already has a parent
Dec 31 04:16:56 <lighthazard> Oh wait.. I might be doing this wrong... can I even have a fragmentlayout hold things?
Dec 31 04:17:43 <voso> lighthazard: do you mean a FrameLayout?
Dec 31 04:18:00 <lighthazard> OOps, yes
Dec 31 04:18:17 <voso> ok. in that case sure you can.
Dec 31 04:18:58 <lighthazard> https://gist.github.com/3a760d4d7b2056971d6c here's my layout
Dec 31 04:19:03 <voso> you can have multiple children per a single FL.
Dec 31 04:19:52 <voso> why do you have that FL at all?
Dec 31 04:20:01 <voso> The RL should be enough..
Dec 31 04:20:22 <lighthazard> I don't have to define a FrameLayout if I use it in a FragmentActivity? What about the tools:context and tools:ignore?
Dec 31 04:21:52 <voso> the tools namespace you can ignore. I do not know about restrictions for the FragmentActivity, but would be surprised if there were any..
Dec 31 04:22:06 <lighthazard> OK, going to try it, hopefully it'll fix my issue.
Dec 31 04:24:43 <PDun> Anyone know how I can update some wireless drivers for Android?
Dec 31 04:25:56 <lighthazard> Thanks Voso, so I don't really need FrameLayout at all.
Dec 31 04:26:12 <lighthazard> Still, same error: https://gist.github.com/66a7975c81d458a52959 Is it because I'm inflating inside a newView?
Dec 31 04:28:13 <lighthazard> Figured it out
Dec 31 04:28:15 <lighthazard> My own stupid fault.
Dec 31 04:28:17 <lighthazard> Thanks anyway
Dec 31 04:38:17 <Bitgod> TextView object
Dec 31 04:38:22 <Bitgod> what happens if i want multiple lines?
Dec 31 04:41:52 <Bitgod> ?
Dec 31 04:45:17 <lighthazard> Bitgod: You want EditText ?
Dec 31 04:45:28 <lighthazard> inputType="textMultiLine"
Dec 31 04:45:33 <Bitgod> no,
Dec 31 04:45:35 <Bitgod> i want TextView
Dec 31 04:45:40 <Bitgod> its a copyright activity
Dec 31 04:45:42 <Bitgod> 6 lines
Dec 31 04:46:18 <lighthazard> OHH!
Dec 31 04:46:19 <lighthazard> my bad
Dec 31 04:46:23 <Bitgod> np :)
Dec 31 04:46:48 <lighthazard> Bitgod: From what I know, you can set android:lines tp ot
Dec 31 04:46:58 <lighthazard> or change the height
Dec 31 04:47:01 <Bitgod> i have it set to 15
Dec 31 04:47:06 <Bitgod> but how do i enterm ore than 1 line
Dec 31 04:47:11 <Bitgod> in the text field
Dec 31 04:47:19 <Bitgod> vb has &vbcrlf
Dec 31 04:47:25 <lighthazard> hm.. not sure
Dec 31 04:47:30 <Bitgod> same :P
Dec 31 04:49:36 <Bitgod> well this sucks :/
Dec 31 04:53:06 <JakeWharton> put a normal newline?
Dec 31 04:53:10 <ron_frown> oi
Dec 31 04:53:19 <Bitgod> ron
Dec 31 04:53:21 <Bitgod> save me :D
Dec 31 04:53:28 <Bitgod> i have a multiline textview object
Dec 31 04:53:33 <Bitgod> how do i enter in more than 1 line lol
Dec 31 04:53:37 <Bitgod> ide only has 1 line
Dec 31 04:53:51 <ron_frown> have to learn how to escape line feeds
Dec 31 04:53:58 <Bitgod> i tried \n or /n
Dec 31 04:53:59 <ron_frown> I dont know what that is
Dec 31 04:54:01 <Bitgod> neither worked
Dec 31 04:54:18 <ron_frown> I dont have all the answers
Dec 31 04:54:27 <ron_frown> not to be a dick but google-fu is very valuable stuff
Dec 31 04:54:55 <Bitgod> ive been googling
Dec 31 04:54:58 <Bitgod> nothing so far heh
Dec 31 04:56:35 <lighthazard> messageList = (ListView) rootView.findViewById(R.id.messages_list); <-- why is this complaining about an EditText cast?
Dec 31 04:57:33 <nicole24> i have problem with database, when i pull db file from eclipse and check it in sql manager it shows me all that i save so i guess it works but i dont know how to show in app all files from db?
Dec 31 04:58:05 <verdagon> lighthazard: can you tell me the type of messageList?
Dec 31 04:58:10 <verdagon> perchance is it an EditText
Dec 31 04:58:16 <lighthazard> ListView messageList;
Dec 31 04:58:24 <verdagon> yep, i got nothing then lol
Dec 31 04:58:29 <lighthazard> RIGHT!?
Dec 31 04:58:30 <verdagon> try a project->clean ?
Dec 31 04:58:30 <lighthazard> lol
Dec 31 04:58:31 <verdagon> lol
Dec 31 04:58:35 <lighthazard> Maybe
Dec 31 04:58:49 <verdagon> wait, can you give me that line again, i cleared my screen
Dec 31 04:58:54 <verdagon> I MAY BE ONTO SOMETHING.
Dec 31 04:59:11 <lighthazard> messageList = (ListView) rootView.findViewById(R.id.messages_list);
Dec 31 04:59:30 <verdagon> yeah, nope. pretty sure R.id.messages_list is indeed an integer, not an edittext....
Dec 31 04:59:59 <verdagon> tell me if u figure it out, im curious
Dec 31 05:00:03 <lighthazard> kk
Dec 31 05:01:54 <lighthazard> verdagon: Clean fixed it.
Dec 31 05:01:56 <lighthazard> That was odd.
Dec 31 05:02:01 <verdagon> lol weird
Dec 31 05:02:13 <verdagon> well, i take full credit for that fix, i must be a genius
Dec 31 05:02:17 <lighthazard> hm.. now my edittext isn't showing a keyboard, is that an option?
Dec 31 05:02:27 <verdagon> i think if you just click on it with your finger itll pop up
Dec 31 05:02:33 <lighthazard> tried
Dec 31 05:02:36 <verdagon> huh
Dec 31 05:02:44 <verdagon> well, obviously, the solution is another project->clean
Dec 31 05:02:57 <verdagon> its worked for 100% of your problems that ive seen so far
Dec 31 05:03:01 <lighthazard> hahaha
Dec 31 05:03:03 <verdagon> lol
Dec 31 05:03:19 * lighthazard disables requestFocus temporarily
Dec 31 05:04:09 <lighthazard> nope, it appears it's not able to grab focus
Dec 31 05:06:31 <verdagon> maybe theres a relativeview on top of it that takes up the whole screen, but since there's nothing in it you cant see it?
Dec 31 05:06:52 <verdagon> or try adding a new button and see if it works with it
Dec 31 05:07:22 <lighthazard> yea trying to use the android debug features to outline things i'm touching first
Dec 31 05:08:35 <lighthazard> nope
Dec 31 05:08:57 <lighthazard> How would I setEmptyView inside onCreateView?
Dec 31 05:09:52 <damccull> how can i create a class where if I put myclass.getsomething() it will check if an object is already created and if not, create it, and then return it. If it is, it will return the same object? Like, getInflater()?
Dec 31 05:10:23 <verdagon> sounds like lazy-loading
Dec 31 05:10:38 <verdagon> or a cache, almost
Dec 31 05:10:40 <verdagon> or memoization!
Dec 31 05:11:00 <damccull> lol
Dec 31 05:11:00 <verdagon> but my game's starting, so look those things up
Dec 31 05:11:05 <damccull> yeah something like that
Dec 31 05:13:00 <nicole24> if anyone have little time and can help me with db... please pm me...
Dec 31 05:13:49 <verdagon> hey damccull try this:
Dec 31 05:13:49 <verdagon> http://pastebin.com/u3DXkhRk
Dec 31 05:14:00 <verdagon> i dont know if its correct syntax, but it should give you the idea
Dec 31 05:18:29 <damccull> verdagon, thanks i'lllook
Dec 31 05:23:10 <damccull> will that type of solution set it up so I can load a single instance of a whole bunch of objects into an arraylist, and then get that exact arraylist every time i call it?
Dec 31 05:29:34 <maslen> Store the ArrayList in a static variable?
Dec 31 05:30:21 <lighthazard> https://gist.github.com/18f2aa56828dd0aff5d0 - I'm not able to set the emptyView for my ListView inside onCreate - any ideas?
Dec 31 05:46:40 <maslen> is it considered "normal" for applications to execute across multiple processes? Or is that the exception?
Dec 31 05:52:18 <ali__> what do you guys prefer for managing dependencies ant or maven?
Dec 31 05:52:50 <JakeWharton> maven
Dec 31 05:53:21 <JakeWharton> I suppose when you refer to 'ant' you mean something like Ivy?
Dec 31 05:53:43 <ali__> yeah
Dec 31 05:53:48 <ali__> why Maven?
Dec 31 05:54:19 <JakeWharton> I've always preferred actual build systems over scripting languages
Dec 31 05:56:23 <JakeWharton> it really doesn't matter what you choose, just so long as you are choosing dependency management over manual copying of jars
Dec 31 05:58:42 <lighthazard> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14098016/edittext-not-showing-a-keyboard if anyone has any thoughts
Dec 31 05:58:43 <ali__> JakeWharton: I've just started doing it. I now need to automate my build process and I'm struggling a bit with downloading the library projects and setting that as dependencies and then building
Dec 31 05:59:12 <JakeWharton> automation was also a huge draw to Maven for me/my work
Dec 31 05:59:47 <JakeWharton> back in the dark days when we used Ant we didn't have any way to pull in library projects as proper dependencies. they had to be managed as git submodules or just copied into the repo directly
Dec 31 06:00:14 <deebo> ant has ivy
Dec 31 06:00:21 <deebo> you didnt do your homework!
Dec 31 06:00:49 <JakeWharton> doesn't support library projects
Dec 31 06:00:53 <JakeWharton> i did my homework plenty
Dec 31 06:01:11 <deebo> oh man i'm in the wrong channel again
Dec 31 06:01:22 <deebo> does android support maven projects these days?
Dec 31 06:01:29 <deebo> (properly)
Dec 31 06:01:38 <JakeWharton> i would argue it's not supported under ant properly
Dec 31 06:01:54 <JakeWharton> it's been usable with Maven for a good two years+ now
Dec 31 06:02:25 <ali__> with Ivy can I pull projects?
Dec 31 06:35:16 <k0nichiwa> is it possible to preserve an View object during orientation chnage, while allowsing your activity to be recreated ?
Dec 31 06:36:44 <clever> k0nichiwa: why would you need to do that?, you should be able to just preserve the state within it
Dec 31 06:38:05 <lighthazard> Any reason why my android:hint wouldn't disappear when I start typing into it?
Dec 31 06:38:10 <ali__> whats the best paying add network for android apps?
Dec 31 06:38:33 <ali__> lighthazard: coz when you start writing you dont really need it
Dec 31 06:39:23 <k0nichiwa> you cant always preserve state
Dec 31 06:39:39 <lighthazard> ali__: It's NOT going away, is the problem :P
Dec 31 06:40:12 <ali__> lighthazard: weird!
Dec 31 06:40:30 <ali__> lighthazard: code
Dec 31 06:40:54 <lighthazard> ali__: Unrelated question but the code is the same: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14098016/edittext-not-showing-a-keyboard
Dec 31 06:41:00 <lighthazard> I think i need to take a break - making stupid mistakes.
Dec 31 06:41:47 <lighthazard> This may have to do somethign witht he fact that when I add more lines, it doesn't resize the ListView and the SendButton looks all weird..
Dec 31 06:44:14 <lighthazard> ali__: http://imgur.com/RSmwB
Dec 31 06:44:35 <lighthazard> My latest XML: https://gist.github.com/3d7ed666bb6754a13700
Dec 31 06:46:58 <Maziz_> k0
Dec 31 06:47:33 <Maziz_> k0nichiwa: i tried asking that question last time. No one has any answer. Either you recreate the activity and recreate the state or just manually handle the orientation change.
Dec 31 07:02:05 <FireAndIce> Can anyone help me with this issue? http://facebook.stackoverflow.com/questions/14097971/no-longer-want-mypackage-myapp-pid-7433-hidden-16-error-on-using-loginbutton
Dec 31 07:19:03 <k0nichiwa> Maziz_, is there a way to get the actiivty to re-flow (recalculate) its layout ?
Dec 31 07:19:34 <Maziz> not that Im aware off
Dec 31 07:19:51 <Maziz> i face those kind of condition before
Dec 31 07:20:26 <Maziz> preserve state, click buttons, location, focus location of list view, in the end after i found workaround for it the result wasn't good
Dec 31 07:20:36 <Maziz> plague with performance issue and all.
Dec 31 07:21:11 <Maziz> So conclusion I got from it, when you have lots of items that you need to preserve through an activity recreation, better just manage it yourself
Dec 31 07:21:21 <Maziz> and prevent the activity from being recreated
Dec 31 07:23:28 <JakeWharton> that's usually a bad idea
Dec 31 07:23:50 <Tonisius> Hmmm
Dec 31 07:24:04 <JakeWharton> if you rely on an activity not being create, you're gonna have a bad time
Dec 31 07:24:15 <canadiancow> jaaaaaaake
Dec 31 07:24:20 <Tonisius> cbates.. why did you leave this channel :(
Dec 31 07:25:06 * Tonisius wanders off to figure out why the main mp3 player always is the primary AudioManager registered intent for all media buttons...
Dec 31 07:25:10 <Tonisius> damn the Galaxy S3...
Dec 31 07:29:54 <Maziz> JakeWharton: sometime when you have many components and wanting to restore the state (manually build it) restarting the activity will lag the application.
Dec 31 07:30:16 <Maziz> because many things need to be recreated
Dec 31 07:30:51 <JakeWharton> right, except what happens when you get a phone call and then the user checks their email, browses the web, and watches some videos and then returns to your app?
Dec 31 07:30:55 <Maziz> not to mention need to allocate memory to shoe the data
Dec 31 07:31:19 <JakeWharton> turns out Android killed your background process and you didn't save anything because you thought your activity would never be recreated in the middle of usage
Dec 31 07:32:20 <Maziz> for that case yeah have to store the state somewhere persistent.
Dec 31 07:32:36 <JakeWharton> it's the exact same case
Dec 31 07:32:54 <Maziz> but for orientation changes  isn't it better to just handle it manually
Dec 31 07:33:25 <JakeWharton> not really, no
Dec 31 07:33:49 <JakeWharton> there's about 15 different configuration changes which have the potential to restart your activity, orientation is only one of them
Dec 31 07:34:56 <Maziz> enlighten me. If let's say you have many things to reinit, how can you make orientation changes smooth. I can come up better idea than that
Dec 31 07:35:06 <Maziz> I can't*
Dec 31 07:36:23 <JakeWharton> that's a highly subjective question
Dec 31 07:37:08 <Maziz> worst case scenario maybe
Dec 31 07:37:10 <JakeWharton> general answers would be: store things in an efficient binary format, don't re-init things you don't have to, use onRetainNonConfgiurationInstance, etc.
Dec 31 07:37:19 <JakeWharton> use dependency injection and singletons
Dec 31 07:38:08 <k0nichiwa> if you handle orientation chnage, how can you tell your layout to re-layout it's views in the new orientation ?
Dec 31 07:38:12 <k0nichiwa> forceLayout maybe ?
Dec 31 07:38:22 <JakeWharton> the whole point is that you don't have to relayout...
Dec 31 07:41:36 <k0nichiwa> for opengl you dont watn to lose your gl objects
Dec 31 07:42:20 <Maziz> last time i have on screen a media player, 3 list views and many bitmaps. Images were store in onretainNonConfigurationInstance. Some singleton. Issue was after I figure out how to store the states each time the orientation changes, it takes almost 5-10 second to load
Dec 31 07:42:21 <Maziz> quite a lag
Dec 31 07:47:26 * Maziz noob
Dec 31 07:56:41 <k0nichiwa> is there some way to tell a layout to recalculate based on an orietnation change, when in your manifset you set "orientation" as change you handle youreself ?
Dec 31 07:58:46 <Maziz> yeah
Dec 31 08:12:34 <k0nichiwa> Maziz, how ?
Dec 31 08:13:53 <lighthazard> I'm trying to implement a custom cursoradapter for a listview which is inside a fragment activity which implements LoaderManager. https://gist.github.com/8fe8fd38f5cea4cc6d3c - I get the error that the cursor does not exist. Any ideas on why it would do that?
Dec 31 08:34:06 <k0nichiwa> wow im baffled ive overriden onlayout for a frame layout and onmeasure for the view i want re-laidout (?)
Dec 31 08:34:13 <k0nichiwa> and it all looks as i woudl expcet so far
Dec 31 08:34:25 <k0nichiwa> but the view isn't being resized to fill the container as i set in the layout info
Dec 31 08:35:58 <clever> k0nichiwa: i think its up to the parent (within its onLayout) to decide where things go and how big they should be in the end
Dec 31 08:36:22 <clever> normaly, those should obey the sizes set in onMeasure
Dec 31 08:36:55 <k0nichiwa> the parent would be a frame layout
Dec 31 08:37:14 <k0nichiwa> ever use grepcode ?  useful
Dec 31 08:37:31 <clever> nope, i just use plain old grep
Dec 31 08:38:51 <k0nichiwa> http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/2.3.7_r1/android/view/View.java#View.onLayout%28boolean%2Cint%2Cint%2Cint%2Cint%29
Dec 31 08:39:31 <clever> k0nichiwa: ah, mozilla has similar stuff, mxr
Dec 31 08:40:26 <capella> and dxr
Dec 31 08:41:46 <Maziz> sorry k0nichiwa
Dec 31 08:41:49 <Maziz> was away
Dec 31 08:43:50 <k0nichiwa> i think im getting close
Dec 31 08:44:06 <k0nichiwa> i think maybe the view is being resized, just my draing code isnt being notified
Dec 31 08:54:10 <Tee_Pee> so heh... got my app on the market... I expected crash reports, but not quite as many, hah
Dec 31 08:56:32 <etcetera> anyone on slidingmenu?
Dec 31 08:56:40 <etcetera> unable to get it to build in either eclipse or intellij?
Dec 31 09:12:58 <lighthazard> Hey guys, I've read that Android's SQLite doesn't have a DATETIME field, how do I default a datetime('now') ?
Dec 31 09:13:04 <lighthazard> + MESSAGES_CREATE_DATE + " DATETIME DEFAULT datetime('now'),"
Dec 31 09:13:08 <lighthazard> ^^ that gives me errors
Dec 31 09:15:54 <lighthazard> 12-31 02:14:34.001: E/SQLiteOpenHelper(11754): android.database.sqlite.SQLiteException: near "(": syntax error: , while compiling: CREATE TABLE contacts (_id INTEGER PRIMARY KEY AUTOINCREMENT,uuid TEXT,email TEXT NOT NULL,name TEXT,public_key TEXT,image_location TEXT,location TEXT,status INTEGER DEFAULT 0,created TEXT DEFAULT datetime('now'),UNIQUE (_id, uuid) ON CONFLICT REPLACE)
Dec 31 09:23:11 <capella> google says http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10758505/how-to-corectly-insert-a-datetime-value-in-sqlite-under-android
Dec 31 09:29:00 <obscurant1st> I have two buttons for next and previous. I need to replace these buttons with the sliding geture, just like it happens in the image gallary while viewing images. Can someone please tell me what should I use for this? I don't even know what to search for in google?
Dec 31 09:31:45 <lighthazard> capella: So it appears I have to manually generate the timestamp every time I enter something?
Dec 31 09:32:34 <capella> or like this ...
Dec 31 09:32:36 <capella> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/754684/how-to-insert-a-sqlite-record-with-a-datetime-set-to-now-in-android-applicatio?rq=1
Dec 31 09:33:37 <lighthazard> nvmd
Dec 31 09:33:38 <lighthazard> that did it
Dec 31 09:33:42 <lighthazard> + MESSAGES_CREATE_DATE + " TEXT DEFAULT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP,"
Dec 31 09:33:55 <capella> >)
Dec 31 09:34:59 <etcetera> is there a more active developer community around somewhere?
Dec 31 09:35:01 <lighthazard> last time I put current_datetime
Dec 31 09:35:04 <lighthazard> which is probably why it failed
Dec 31 09:35:10 <etcetera> seems people tend to ask their questions in here and, are just as lost as when they started.
Dec 31 09:35:28 <lighthazard> etcetera: Dunno.. in my experience, most of the answers make the questioner think.
Dec 31 09:35:32 <lighthazard> Which is something I prefer in answers.
Dec 31 09:35:50 <etcetera> lighthazard: this just seems to be a fairly light channel for ~400 /names
Dec 31 09:36:02 <lighthazard> It's 2:34 MST
Dec 31 09:36:15 <lighthazard> That's late night, on a Sunday. Meanining people work in the morning, so they must sleep :P
Dec 31 09:36:17 <etcetera> I'm not speaking about just at this very moment.
Dec 31 09:36:28 <etcetera> I'm talking about in the last few months that I've been active here.
Dec 31 09:37:19 <capella> also many of the questions are like "how can I program with an Activity"?
Dec 31 09:40:38 <obscurant1st> Can somebody please tell me?
Dec 31 09:40:40 <obscurant1st> I have two buttons for next and previous. I need to replace these buttons with the sliding geture, just like it happens in the image gallary while viewing images. Can someone please tell me what should I use for this? I don't even know what to search for in google?
Dec 31 09:41:12 <monsti> you might want to use the viewpager
Dec 31 09:41:45 <obscurant1st> monsti Ok thanks let me try! :)
Dec 31 09:42:58 <obscurant1st> I am trying to update the text in a textbox via swiping, just like those buttons. Hbope it will be achievable with it!
Dec 31 09:54:12 <lighthazard> How do I make games with no work?
Dec 31 09:56:48 <TheBunny> magic!
Dec 31 09:56:59 <Snuupy> lol
Dec 31 09:57:02 <Snuupy> ilegel hax
Dec 31 09:57:10 <JesusFreke> work is force * distance. so either don't press on anything, or don't move anything
Dec 31 09:57:25 <g00s> +1
Dec 31 09:57:47 <g00s> and Bunnies know all about magic ;)
Dec 31 09:58:52 <ali__> anyone here interviewed at booking.com
Dec 31 09:58:52 <ali__> ?
Dec 31 10:18:32 <lighthazard> ali__: For work?
Dec 31 10:43:36 <baptistem> o/
Dec 31 10:44:09 <baptistem> I added the stuff on /etc/udev but I still get a ?????? as device name, I need to reboot or something ?
Dec 31 10:45:28 <helicopter88> baptistem, the quickest solution is to run adb with sudo
Dec 31 10:45:45 <baptistem> yeah but I'm using it as plugin
Dec 31 10:52:06 <baptistem> got it, wrong line on the .rules file
Dec 31 11:42:25 <Zharf> can I disable launcher category intent filters from my manifest at runtime?
Dec 31 12:05:40 <Tee_Pee> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.atlantbh.pycsell&feature=search_result    A little bit of self-promotion, and the result of more than 3 months of diligent coding :P
Dec 31 12:16:35 <SpeedEvil> :-)
Dec 31 12:22:42 <BrixSat> Hello
Dec 31 12:22:57 <BrixSat> i need a help
Dec 31 12:24:24 <BrixSat>  im facing a problem, i have 2 classes, class A and Class B. Class B gives error in some methods cause of getsystemservice (context). One way would be to pass context as parameter to all classes, but im sure that is not the best way-
Dec 31 12:24:43 <monsti> it's the best way
Dec 31 12:26:38 <BrixSat> but that looks silly
Dec 31 12:27:08 <BrixSat> class A does not need context and it will use class B so i will have to put context in A for just use in B?
Dec 31 12:27:47 <BrixSat>  monsti im sure there is a better way!
Dec 31 12:28:37 <monsti> well if you need a context, you have to put is somewhere
Dec 31 12:28:51 <BrixSat> :/
Dec 31 12:28:53 <monsti> you can also have a setContext() method
Dec 31 12:29:17 <monsti> you can also have a parameter e.g. class A has class B
Dec 31 12:29:31 <BrixSat> yeah
Dec 31 12:29:33 <monsti> and you call a.foo(context) which calles b.bar(context)
Dec 31 12:29:39 <monsti> whats the problem?
Dec 31 12:29:59 <BrixSat> seen this way none :)
Dec 31 12:30:02 <BrixSat> thanks
Dec 31 12:30:12 <monsti> maybee you want bar be a static method
Dec 31 12:30:32 <monsti> but that depents on your religion, the weather and the size of your shoues
Dec 31 12:30:50 <BrixSat> what will i earn by making it static?
Dec 31 12:32:37 <monsti> BrixSat: my personal way to deal with methods that use a context
Dec 31 12:33:11 <BrixSat> but i would also need to pass the parameter context so i dont see what could make it better
Dec 31 12:33:34 <monsti> there is something that needs a context for a service/os call to android
Dec 31 12:33:51 <BrixSat> yes
Dec 31 12:33:59 <BrixSat> in this case is to get the macAddress
Dec 31 12:34:09 <monsti> that "thing" i make as static as possible to avoid saving a context inside of a class
Dec 31 12:34:31 <BrixSat> hoo i get it :)
Dec 31 12:34:49 <monsti> ok i get you
Dec 31 12:35:00 <monsti> so the mac adress is what's the parameter
Dec 31 12:35:11 <BrixSat> no the mac is what i want to get
Dec 31 12:35:14 <monsti> not the A-B-C-foo(context)
Dec 31 12:35:36 <BrixSat> class B gets mac that is going to be used in class A
Dec 31 12:35:41 <monsti> String mac=Foo.gettMac(context);
Dec 31 12:35:45 <monsti> new A(mac)
Dec 31 12:36:22 <BrixSat> yes it would have to be that way
Dec 31 12:46:09 <BrixSat>  monsti just one last question, i have a class public class Downloader extends AsyncTask<String, Integer, String> is there any way to have a callback, like when you end call this method of another class
Dec 31 12:54:06 <nicole24> hi, need help with db, i pull out db from eclipse and saw in sql manager that it stores correct but i dont know how to show that data in app... please pm me if you know working with db well...
Dec 31 12:55:21 <vavirta> http://www.vogella.com/articles/AndroidSQLite/article.html
Dec 31 12:55:48 <vavirta> I think that article can help you :)
Dec 31 14:12:21 <deanclkclk> hello folks
Dec 31 14:12:31 <deanclkclk> I have a severe problem with phonegap and android jelly beans
Dec 31 14:12:38 <deanclkclk> does both work together?
Dec 31 14:14:49 <platzhirsch> Is this normal, that a disabled button (button.setEnable(false)) does not change color or text color?
Dec 31 14:23:46 <funkbox> sounds like a phonegap issue and not an android issue
Dec 31 14:57:26 <nicole24> is it possible to use date picker without dialog, i mean just to change it in picker instead of pressing button and opening date dialog?
Dec 31 15:42:53 <xorgate> anyone ever used SparseArray?
Dec 31 16:07:21 <toadkillerdog> damn the gingerbread usage is still massive
Dec 31 16:07:45 <NITR0GEN> it will take a long time until 2.3 vanishes
Dec 31 16:07:52 <NITR0GEN> there are devices which cant go beyond that
Dec 31 16:07:57 <NITR0GEN> for example mine
Dec 31 16:08:47 <nicole24> any example with date picker and db that works ? :S
Dec 31 16:09:56 <toadkillerdog> what device is that NITR0GEN
Dec 31 16:10:21 <p_l> my previous phone couldn't exactly go past 2.2
Dec 31 16:10:30 <NITR0GEN> toadkillerdog, ZTE Racer
Dec 31 16:10:36 <p_l> 2.3 was done with hacked incomplete rewrite of GPU driver
Dec 31 16:10:48 <toadkillerdog> sucks
Dec 31 16:10:50 <NITR0GEN> even with custom ROMs, 2.3.7 is the max it can go
Dec 31 16:10:55 <NITR0GEN> toadkillerdog, yeah i know
Dec 31 16:11:00 <p_l> toadkillerdog: any device that doesn't have OES_EGL_image extension can't go past 2.2
Dec 31 16:11:02 <NITR0GEN> i am looking forward to getting rid of it :D
Dec 31 16:11:17 <toadkillerdog> i try to stick to the nexus devices for that reason
Dec 31 16:11:22 <toadkillerdog> but i went with a S3 on my contract renewal
Dec 31 16:11:34 <toadkillerdog> switched to a custom rom since carrier takes so damn long to update
Dec 31 16:12:08 <p_l> yeah, just got my nexus as well :3\
Dec 31 16:12:33 <NITR0GEN> i may get it soon
Dec 31 16:12:39 <NITR0GEN> as a late Christmas present
Dec 31 16:12:44 <NITR0GEN> but the old one, Galaxy Nexus
Dec 31 16:12:54 <p_l> it's still pretty good, I hear
Dec 31 16:13:02 <p_l> I grabbed N4. Was a bitch to get, but I'm happy
Dec 31 16:13:15 <toadkillerdog> im loving the larger screens now
Dec 31 16:13:36 * AmandaC has a GNex from I/O 2012 -- she's loving it
Dec 31 16:13:42 <NITR0GEN> p_l, what do you mean by saying "bitch to get"?
Dec 31 16:13:58 <AmandaC> NITR0GEN: the supply chain is a bit weak
Dec 31 16:14:01 <p_l> NITR0GEN: it's not sold officially in my country, and I had to deal with customs ;P
Dec 31 16:14:02 <NITR0GEN> AmandaC, oh you were there, i was watching the live stream and i felt jealousy wake up and rage inside me
Dec 31 16:14:08 <p_l> afk
Dec 31 16:14:12 <NITR0GEN> p_l, where do you live?
Dec 31 16:14:52 <AmandaC> NITR0GEN: haha, it's a race every year, the tickets are selling out in <1hour. o.o
Dec 31 16:16:07 <NITR0GEN> whoa
Dec 31 16:16:14 <NITR0GEN> btw, you also got a Nexus Q right?
Dec 31 16:16:24 <AmandaC> Yep
Dec 31 16:16:30 <NITR0GEN> is it good?
Dec 31 16:16:45 <AmandaC> it's sitting in the livingroom, flashing yellow because it doesn't have a TV hooked up to it. ( We don
Dec 31 16:16:54 <AmandaC> 't have a HDMI-capable TV in the livingroom )
Dec 31 16:17:24 <NITR0GEN> and HDMI is strictly required?
Dec 31 16:17:31 <AmandaC> for video, yes
Dec 31 16:17:50 <AmandaC> We also lack a stero system now. :P
Dec 31 16:19:14 <NITR0GEN> AmandaC, so now audio too?
Dec 31 16:19:22 <AmandaC> indeed
Dec 31 16:19:55 <NITR0GEN> ok
Dec 31 16:20:06 <AmandaC> but it's kinda silyl to have it in the bedroom, as the bedroom has a GTV hooked up to it.
Dec 31 16:21:35 <NITR0GEN> sorry, what's a GTV?
Dec 31 16:21:40 <AmandaC> Google TV
Dec 31 16:21:56 <NITR0GEN> whoa, they are available for purchase?
Dec 31 16:22:04 <NITR0GEN> or you are a Google employee? :D
Dec 31 16:22:12 <AmandaC> yes you can buy them
Dec 31 16:22:20 <NITR0GEN> oh
Dec 31 16:22:22 <AmandaC> It's the name of the OS, not the device
Dec 31 16:22:30 <AmandaC> It's a Vizio Co-Star
Dec 31 16:22:47 <NITR0GEN> i would love to install GTV on a Samsung SmartTV
Dec 31 16:22:52 <AmandaC> heh
Dec 31 16:23:18 <NITR0GEN> AmandaC, if i may ask, how much did the GTV cost you?
Dec 31 16:23:39 <AmandaC> NITR0GEN: 99$ -- it's a Set Top Box that goes inbetween the cable box and the TV
Dec 31 16:23:57 <NITR0GEN> and it has all the OS, apps and stuff on it?
Dec 31 16:24:20 <AmandaC> yes
Dec 31 16:24:31 <NITR0GEN> wow, i thought it's on the TV itself
Dec 31 16:24:46 <NITR0GEN> you see, there are no GTVs in our country
Dec 31 16:25:37 <toadkillerdog> anyone used actionbarsherlock before?
Dec 31 16:25:56 <Pfhoenix> anybody recommend a quality bluetooth keyboard?
Dec 31 16:26:03 <luyang> IntelliJ doesn't recognize imported Android projects
Dec 31 16:26:06 <luyang> what am I doing wrong
Dec 31 16:26:15 <toadkillerdog> using intellij ;p
Dec 31 16:26:16 <alankila> using intellij :-p
Dec 31 16:26:17 <Pfhoenix> luyang : it recognized mine just fine
Dec 31 16:26:19 <alankila> omg
Dec 31 16:26:24 * toadkillerdog hi5s alankila
Dec 31 16:26:24 <Pfhoenix> do you use Eclipse?
Dec 31 16:26:25 <luyang> "it works on my computer"
Dec 31 16:26:30 <luyang> I used Eclipse previously
Dec 31 16:26:35 <Pfhoenix> as did I
Dec 31 16:26:45 <luyang> I can import the project but it doesn't recognize any frameworks
Dec 31 16:27:00 <luyang> I am trying to add my Android 4.2 facet manually but no luck
Dec 31 16:27:43 <luyang> Pfhoenix: can u explain
Dec 31 16:28:08 <Pfhoenix> well, I don't remember if I imported the project or created a new project from existing source
Dec 31 16:28:37 <luyang> I imported ActionBarSherlock
Dec 31 16:28:48 <luyang> I guess I have to make it a Module?
Dec 31 16:28:52 <Pfhoenix> no idea, sorry
Dec 31 16:29:08 <Pfhoenix> I'm still pretty new with both IDEA and Eclipse
Dec 31 16:29:22 <Pfhoenix> Android dev makes me a little queasy, still
Dec 31 16:29:57 <Pfhoenix> reminds me of when I was teaching myself Win3.1 dev back in the day
Dec 31 16:30:08 <Pfhoenix> and I don't have nearly the patience for poor design now as I did then
Dec 31 16:30:13 <luyang> I'm fluent in Eclipse and all but I wanna give IntelliJ a chance
Dec 31 16:30:16 <luyang> but this is aweful
Dec 31 16:30:27 <Pfhoenix> I'm enjoying IDEA so far, for code anyways
Dec 31 16:30:36 <luyang> yeah your help would be appreciated
Dec 31 16:30:38 <Pfhoenix> its layout editor is not as good as Eclipses
Dec 31 16:30:41 <luyang> ok
Dec 31 16:30:50 <luyang> so I will probably stick with Eclipse
Dec 31 16:31:10 <Pfhoenix> if you're on a timeline, I wouldn't spend time on switching
Dec 31 16:31:22 <Pfhoenix> especially if it's not working out-of-the-box for you
Dec 31 16:31:23 <luyang> Indexing took ages
Dec 31 16:31:30 <luyang> so I quit
Dec 31 16:31:33 <luyang> Eclipse here I come
Dec 31 16:31:41 <karakuri> Hey all, i need help using object animator to translate a view proportional to its dimension. Under the older framework, you could make a Translate Animation in xml and set fromXDelta and toXDelta, specifying a percent. The new ObjectAnimator framework doesn't seem to have this? Or am I missing something obvious?
Dec 31 16:31:45 <Pfhoenix> going back to Eclipse is like taking a walk of shame =)
Dec 31 16:32:39 <luyang> Pfhoenix: Yes IntelliJ is fugly like a one night stand the morning after
Dec 31 16:33:10 <NITR0GEN> #android-dev is the ONLY place I've come across, where people recommend Eclipse over IntelliJ
Dec 31 16:33:26 <alankila> NITR0GEN: use the official tools, y0
Dec 31 16:33:27 <NITR0GEN> everyone says IntelliJ is a better editor
Dec 31 16:33:33 <NITR0GEN> alankila, i do
Dec 31 16:33:35 <capella> intelliJ++
Dec 31 16:33:49 <jigal> hello everyone. does anyone know how to use this with a cursor?
Dec 31 16:33:51 <NITR0GEN> because IntelliJ is not in Fedora repositories
Dec 31 16:33:52 <jigal> http://www.dreamincode.net/forums/topic/270612-how-to-get-started-with-expandablelistview/
Dec 31 16:34:17 <alankila> I tried intellij once when they made it free of charge but thought it sucked then
Dec 31 16:34:32 <AmandaC> I started with IntelliJ  because my netbook's screen is too small for eclipse, now I use neither, just Sublime and a handful of plugins/
Dec 31 16:34:36 <capella> still free - community edition
Dec 31 16:34:40 <alankila> had some specific laundry list of issues, thuogh the largest problem was lack of integrated build. I happen to like IDEs that are capable of building projects.
Dec 31 16:34:40 <NITR0GEN> jigal, hi fellow DICHead :D
Dec 31 16:34:55 <alankila> for instance it makes hot code replace obvious, easy, painless, and near instantenous
Dec 31 16:34:59 <jigal> NITR0GEN, ???????
Dec 31 16:35:01 <alankila> save in editor -> running half second later
Dec 31 16:35:03 <luyang> NITR0GEN: yeah they say IntelliJ is better but I am angry with it
Dec 31 16:35:37 <alankila> java has the best build-deploy-run cycle ever thanks to hot code replace
Dec 31 16:35:41 <NITR0GEN> jigal, haven't you seen that Dreamincode users are called DICHeads?
Dec 31 16:35:46 * AmandaC doesn't partiucarly like either of them, they both force a sturctur she doesn't like
Dec 31 16:35:46 <luyang> I would like a lightweight Android editor
Dec 31 16:35:59 <NITR0GEN> luyang, Android editor?
Dec 31 16:36:08 <Pfhoenix> I would much rather use Visual Studio for Android dev
Dec 31 16:36:16 <NITR0GEN> ^5 Pfhoenix
Dec 31 16:36:17 <Pfhoenix> but I'm not willing to suffer Mono's pricetag
Dec 31 16:36:18 <jigal> NITR0GEN, nope.
Dec 31 16:36:21 <NITR0GEN> i would even run Windows for it
Dec 31 16:36:26 <NITR0GEN> jigal, ok
Dec 31 16:36:34 <Pfhoenix> and none of the VS plugins for Android are any good
Dec 31 16:36:42 <AmandaC> It'd be nice if the layout editor was ripped out and made indipendent, though
Dec 31 16:36:42 <jigal> But NITR0GEN you have a solution for me?
Dec 31 16:36:42 <Pfhoenix> certainly not worth paying for
Dec 31 16:36:49 <NITR0GEN> jigal, sorry but no
Dec 31 16:36:54 <jigal> ok
Dec 31 16:36:55 <Pfhoenix> I'd rather have Eclipse's layout editor in IDEA
Dec 31 16:37:04 <NITR0GEN> Pfhoenix, there are plugins for VS?!
Dec 31 16:37:08 <luyang> NITR0GEN: I mean a light weight IDE for Android development
Dec 31 16:37:10 <Pfhoenix> NITR0GEN : yep, look them up
Dec 31 16:37:29 <NITR0GEN> luyang, there is an OS for android development
Dec 31 16:37:30 <NITR0GEN> :D
Dec 31 16:37:30 <luyang> I think Eclipse used to be really nice… I mean it's great just that it's a bit slow and clunky
Dec 31 16:37:35 <NITR0GEN> a Linux distro
Dec 31 16:37:40 <NITR0GEN> btw both kinds of Android devs
Dec 31 16:37:41 <Pfhoenix> by all accounts I've read/heard, Mono for Android is rather nice
Dec 31 16:37:41 <luyang> NITR0GEN: really? :o
Dec 31 16:37:43 <Pfhoenix> and runs fast
Dec 31 16:37:44 <NITR0GEN> both app devs and ROM devs
Dec 31 16:37:49 <alankila> eclipse can be made lighter by downloading the smallest distro and then enhancing it with just the components you need... no mylyn or other shite
Dec 31 16:37:51 <luyang> NITR0GEN: what's the distro's name?
Dec 31 16:37:58 <Pfhoenix> but for a single developer, to charge $300 is nearly criminal
Dec 31 16:37:58 <luyang> I could install it
Dec 31 16:38:03 <luyang> oh dear
Dec 31 16:38:04 <NITR0GEN> luyang, i'll look it up
Dec 31 16:38:18 <Pfhoenix> my problem with Eclipse is that it's buggy
Dec 31 16:38:32 <Pfhoenix> it was constantly expanding closed blocks of code
Dec 31 16:38:37 <NITR0GEN> and it's a bit slow
Dec 31 16:38:44 <jero> luyang: distro name is eclipse platform
Dec 31 16:38:46 <NITR0GEN> luyang, http://susestudio.com/a/zynUFR/android-development-studio
Dec 31 16:39:02 <AmandaC> alankila: I didn't mean RAM/disk size, I meant it's UI is too big, the code window would only be a few inches across
Dec 31 16:39:11 <NITR0GEN> alankila, which do you think is the smallest Eclipse distro?
Dec 31 16:39:25 <luyang> NITR0GEN: thanks. Does that mean it's non-free?
Dec 31 16:39:38 <NITR0GEN> luyang, non free?
Dec 31 16:39:40 <NITR0GEN> it's Linux
Dec 31 16:39:49 <luyang> NITRO	you mentioned $300
Dec 31 16:39:53 <Pfhoenix> AmandaC : you can hide the side windows you don't want
Dec 31 16:40:01 <luyang> NITR0GEN: ^
Dec 31 16:40:09 <nicole24> best way to save date to db for later sorting data by date?
Dec 31 16:40:16 <NITR0GEN> i didnt mention $300
Dec 31 16:40:22 <AmandaC> Pfhoenix: I tried that, it was still too small on the Y axis
Dec 31 16:40:26 <Pfhoenix> fair enough
Dec 31 16:40:37 <Pfhoenix> all things considered, I'd *much* rather code in C# than Java
Dec 31 16:40:49 * AmandaC doesn'[t mind Java
Dec 31 16:40:52 <Pfhoenix> Java has some... odd conventions
Dec 31 16:41:00 <luyang> NITR0GEN: on it was Pfhoenix who said "but for a single developer, to charge $300 is nearly criminal"
Dec 31 16:41:07 <Pfhoenix> my biggest beef is the utter lack of operator overloading
Dec 31 16:41:16 <luyang> NITR0GEN: OK I might download and install it… sounds interesting
Dec 31 16:41:24 <luyang> I could run it virtualized first to try it out
Dec 31 16:41:33 <alankila> AmandaC: I use fullscreen mode, it helps a lot. Also you can arrange stuff to fix things like hide unnecessary toolbars
Dec 31 16:41:48 <NITR0GEN> luyang, of course
Dec 31 16:41:53 <alankila> NITR0GEN: I'd pick it based on the size in eclipse.org download size. eclipse for java developers probably
Dec 31 16:41:56 <AmandaC> alankila: for whatever reason they wouldn't stay hidden
Dec 31 16:41:57 <NITR0GEN> try it in a vm firsy
Dec 31 16:42:17 <NITR0GEN> alankila, thanks, i'll look at it
Dec 31 16:42:28 <luyang> NITR0GEN: it's very unprofessional… misspelled etc
Dec 31 16:42:34 <luyang> NITR0GEN: emanxx.wix.com/ads
Dec 31 16:42:36 <NITR0GEN> oh
Dec 31 16:42:43 <alankila> AmandaC: I program on 11" macbook air so I need all the space I can get
Dec 31 16:42:58 <luyang> NITR0GEN: but might still be ok
Dec 31 16:43:01 <AmandaC> alankila: heh, 10" EMachines thing that was obsolete when I got it. :P
Dec 31 16:43:31 <NITR0GEN> alankila, isn't that horrible?
Dec 31 16:43:37 <alankila> but the fullscreen mode is godsend for me, because I really can't afford to waste a whole lot of pixels
Dec 31 16:43:37 * AmandaC loves Sublime though, completion in a dozen languages, all full-featured, context-aware, etc
Dec 31 16:43:51 <alankila> NITR0GEN: what is?
Dec 31 16:44:00 <NITR0GEN> 11" coding
Dec 31 16:44:04 <NITR0GEN> *coding in 11"
Dec 31 16:44:08 <alankila> nah... I'm used to it
Dec 31 16:44:20 <luyang> I use a 15" Macbook as we speak
Dec 31 16:44:25 <AmandaC> NITR0GEN: you get used to it.
Dec 31 16:44:26 <alankila> I have somewhat more tolerance than most for this sort of difficulties
Dec 31 16:44:39 * AmandaC also has most fonts on it set to 9pt
Dec 31 16:44:45 <luyang> I prefer it to my i7 gaming desktop and Mac Mini
Dec 31 16:44:46 <Pfhoenix> Sublime?
Dec 31 16:45:01 <karakuri> why can't I use an AnimatorSet with adapterviewanimator?
Dec 31 16:45:07 <alankila> and the laptop is just such an awesome machine that it really makes up for a lot of it. I have a 13" macbook that I can use as a terminal to view the apps I develop concurrently though
Dec 31 16:45:08 <Sicp> Sublime \o/
Dec 31 16:45:44 <AmandaC> Pfhoenix: http://sublimetext.com
Dec 31 16:45:44 <alankila> that is useful. And of course, I could plug the machine to a 24" monitor I have which is mostly off but I rarely find the need for that many pixels
Dec 31 16:45:58 <karakuri> it throws an exception when I use an xml file with <set><objectAnimation /><objectAnimator /></set>
Dec 31 16:46:26 <Pfhoenix> oh, a text editor
Dec 31 16:46:30 <luyang> I have ordered Beginning Android Games 2nd Edition!!!!!!!!!!
Dec 31 16:46:35 <luyang> That seems like a great book
Dec 31 16:46:42 <Pfhoenix> I much prefer IDEs to having to cobble together a workflow around a text editor
Dec 31 16:47:02 <AmandaC> Pfhoenix: It's not that much cobbling, but shrug, to each their own.
Dec 31 16:47:34 <luyang> AmandaC: I'd like a snappy Android development workflow
Dec 31 16:47:34 <alankila> AmandaC: I discovered a very nice terminal font that I've been using, one called latin modern mono. It beats the default coding fonts you get on a macbook at least in my eyes
Dec 31 16:48:04 <nixoncy> has anyone tried basic4android IDE?
Dec 31 16:48:04 <AmandaC> alankila: every time I change fonts everything looks wrong, so I don't even bother anymore
Dec 31 16:48:38 <Pfhoenix> either way, I don't think it's too much to ask for an Android IDE that does all the code niceties with a layout editor that isn't like pulling teeth
Dec 31 16:48:54 <Pfhoenix> doing anything with Android UI makes me shiver
Dec 31 16:48:57 <AmandaC> heh
Dec 31 16:49:30 <AmandaC> the only thing I really miss in my workflow is the shiny templlateing system they threw into Eclispe a couple versions ago
Dec 31 16:49:31 <luyang> Pfhoenix: I dunno if it's just me but a small mistake in the xml file can mess up the graphical view and a small coding error can generate a force close… sooo easily!
Dec 31 16:49:35 <karakuri> Pfhoenix: layout editor isn't that bad, is it?
Dec 31 16:49:44 <karakuri> granted i do a lot of the tuning in the xml itself
Dec 31 16:49:57 <luyang> I think the layout editor has become much better
Dec 31 16:49:58 <AmandaC> AFAIK you can't use that from the command line.
Dec 31 16:50:01 <alankila> https://bel.fi/alankila/lmm.png is what it looks like, anyway
Dec 31 16:50:28 <luyang> woo I'm screenshotted!
Dec 31 16:50:32 <luyang> :P
Dec 31 16:50:36 <Pfhoenix> the layout editor in Eclipse is better than the one in IDEA
Dec 31 16:50:39 * AmandaC sells luyang's screenshot to TMZ
Dec 31 16:50:45 <luyang> :o
Dec 31 16:50:49 <nixoncy> the name of the language/IDE may turn some people off but it has some really nice features
Dec 31 16:50:50 <Pfhoenix> I *really* dislike having to use both just to feel productive, though
Dec 31 16:51:24 <luyang> Anyway… Is there a real time collaboration tool for Eclipse similar to Word editing in Google Docs?
Dec 31 16:51:43 <Pfhoenix> luyang : that would be a really bad idea
Dec 31 16:51:49 <luyang> that would make a huge leap from today's asynchronous open source development
Dec 31 16:52:02 <maslen> luyang: It would also make debugging very, very, scary.
Dec 31 16:52:02 <AmandaC> luyang: no clue, but I had a girlfriend who was raving about a OSX Editor like that awhile ago
Dec 31 16:52:06 <luyang> Pfhoenix: no it would be great
Dec 31 16:52:09 <AmandaC> a/a /an /
Dec 31 16:52:10 <Pfhoenix> it would make compiling very scary as well
Dec 31 16:52:28 <luyang> oK sorry I don't mean it should automatically sync changes inbetween… it should be a way to follow others changes and ideas in real time
Dec 31 16:52:33 <luyang> Like Notch's live streaming
Dec 31 16:52:41 <luyang> He live streams when he develops x10c
Dec 31 16:53:16 <luyang> I guess thenewboston is closest to what I would be looking for
Dec 31 16:53:28 <Pfhoenix> luyang : still sounds like a really bad idea for something that requires compiling and debugging
Dec 31 16:53:42 <Pfhoenix> you'd need to lock local updating while compiling/debugging
Dec 31 16:53:59 <luyang> Pfhoenix: seriously this is good stuff https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thenewboston+android
Dec 31 16:54:05 <Pfhoenix> and talk about introduction of crazy compile time errors
Dec 31 16:54:15 <maslen> a read-only or highlight-only share could work really well though
Dec 31 16:54:28 <luyang> Pfhoenix: I know people don't wanna mess in each others code… I would just wanna be able to follwo other peoples development in real time like a webcast
Dec 31 16:54:34 <alankila> oh, it says latin modern mono is derived from donald knuth's computer modern fonts.
Dec 31 16:54:36 <luyang> I'm not talking about changing code on your hardware
Dec 31 16:54:38 <maslen> It would be useful for agile-programming
Dec 31 16:54:42 <Pfhoenix> then follow them doing a webcast?
Dec 31 16:54:59 <luyang> yeah it would be fun to follow people on Github on live webcasts
Dec 31 16:55:18 <luyang> like, you join in on their page and fire up eclipse and have a live read-only view of what they're doing
Dec 31 16:55:30 <maslen> Porn probably.
Dec 31 16:55:32 <Pfhoenix> that sounds incredibly boring.
Dec 31 16:55:32 <luyang> lol
Dec 31 16:55:42 <luyang> Pfhoenix: no it could help in designing UI for example
Dec 31 16:55:43 <Pfhoenix> and yeah, you'd jump into live viewing of porn more often than not
Dec 31 16:55:44 <alankila> I love the cm typeface, and am doubly impressed by the fact that the face is apparently defined via mathematical expressions that generate the curves of the glyphs :-p
Dec 31 16:55:49 <luyang> UI is not super easy on Android
Dec 31 16:55:55 <Pfhoenix> it isn't
Dec 31 16:55:58 <luyang> lol, it would be Eclipse only
Dec 31 16:56:15 <Pfhoenix> but unless someone is actively teaching how to use it, simply watching somebody struggle through it wouldn't be very productive
Dec 31 16:56:16 <luyang> Pfhoenix: I mean just think about intricacies like Romain Guy's analysis of overdraw… stuff like that
Dec 31 16:56:33 <luyang> Pfhoenix: you should be able to follow people who know what the heck they are doing
Dec 31 16:56:47 <alankila> I guess only knuth ever knew how to use metafont, though
Dec 31 16:56:56 <AmandaC> They'd be mocking things up in PS and then handing the shiny images to a developer saying "Make it go."
Dec 31 16:57:35 <luyang> I'm just saying it would be like pair-programming online
Dec 31 16:57:38 <Pfhoenix> luyang : most people who know what the heck they are doing don't have the time or patience to webcast their workflow
Dec 31 16:57:39 <luyang> which sounds fun to me
Dec 31 16:57:45 <Pfhoenix> fun for you
Dec 31 16:57:47 <Pfhoenix> I'd never do it
Dec 31 16:57:56 <luyang> Pfhoenix: to each their own or whatever they say
Dec 31 16:57:56 <AmandaC> Pfhoenix: why you being such a debbie downer?
Dec 31 16:57:58 <maslen> I'd only do it if I were writing Python :)
Dec 31 16:58:07 <Pfhoenix> AmandaC : just doesn't strike me as a good idea
Dec 31 16:58:15 <Pfhoenix> unless one is getting paid to webcast-teach
Dec 31 16:58:17 <luyang> it brings people closer
Dec 31 16:58:17 <AmandaC> Pfhoenix: so you have to piss all over the idea?
Dec 31 16:58:21 <Pfhoenix> then it's a great idea if there's a market
Dec 31 16:58:31 <Pfhoenix> you know, being a ray of realism isn't pissing all over stuff
Dec 31 16:58:42 * AmandaC hates that term
Dec 31 16:58:58 <luyang> now you just find a bunch of code on github and you gotta read all over the place how to use it… my idea would make it possible to just hook up to a live stream or recorded stream of people live streaming their open source work
Dec 31 16:59:01 <Pfhoenix> life isn't butterflies and unicorns
Dec 31 16:59:10 <luyang> Life's like a box of chocolate
Dec 31 16:59:13 <AmandaC> "realism" is just pessism for people who are too ... something. to realise that it's that
Dec 31 16:59:14 <Pfhoenix> luyang : right, because github isn't structured for easy learning
Dec 31 16:59:24 <luyang> Pfhoenix: no github is a haystack
Dec 31 16:59:25 <maslen> Pfhoenix: If you don't pretend it is, at least a little, you're likely to go insane
Dec 31 16:59:36 <Pfhoenix> it sounds like you're struggling with finding proper learningn resources
Dec 31 16:59:45 <Pfhoenix> *learning
Dec 31 17:00:01 <alankila> if there's something the world doesn't need, then it's more people live streaming anything, be it their face, voice or stream of consciousness aka twitter :-p
Dec 31 17:00:02 <Pfhoenix> and unfortunately, I don't know if there are any definitive Android dev books out there
Dec 31 17:00:07 <NITR0GEN> guys, someone told me that developong an Android app with only a text editor is a nightmare, but he didn't clarify it, can you tell me which part is the nightmare?
Dec 31 17:00:13 <luyang> Pfhoenix: no I'm struggling to get my ass off and get down to biz… I can be productive at work but find it hard to be at home
Dec 31 17:00:26 <maslen> NITR0GEN: Probably the API's. Autocomplete is very, very, useful
Dec 31 17:00:28 <Pfhoenix> luyang : oh, then that's a different problem altogether =)
Dec 31 17:00:37 <Pfhoenix> IDEA's auto-complete is great
Dec 31 17:00:41 <Pfhoenix> VS quality
Dec 31 17:00:47 <NITR0GEN> maslen, ahh, so that's the problem
Dec 31 17:00:56 <NITR0GEN> Eclipse is not that great in autocomplete
Dec 31 17:00:59 <maslen> also built-in doc referencing, cross referencing, refactoring
Dec 31 17:01:01 <luyang> Pfhoenix: but it would help sooo much to collaborate in real time
Dec 31 17:01:01 <Pfhoenix> sadly, I wish IDEA did help popups like Eclipse does
Dec 31 17:01:11 <Pfhoenix> luyang : to each their own =)
Dec 31 17:01:15 <AmandaC> maslen: I have autocomplete.
Dec 31 17:01:17 <Pfhoenix> I've worked on many multi-developer projects
Dec 31 17:01:17 <luyang> yeah
Dec 31 17:01:28 <Pfhoenix> I have dreaded someone else working on something while I was
Dec 31 17:01:36 <Pfhoenix> so, personal experience/bias here.
Dec 31 17:01:49 <maslen> heh. I've done that too. I just politely asked my coworkers not to touch certain files for about a week
Dec 31 17:02:05 <Pfhoenix> and then you get that one guy who says "but I want to learn this stuff"
Dec 31 17:02:14 <maslen> Nah, they were all glad to get the heck out of it
Dec 31 17:02:23 <alankila> microsoft, who also faces the problem of lots of people working on the same files, has a recursive forest of source trees
Dec 31 17:02:26 <Pfhoenix> and he fucks up and makes some stupid changes and commits them and you spend an entire day slogging through the mess
Dec 31 17:02:38 <Pfhoenix> no thank you very much.
Dec 31 17:02:38 <maslen> It was an extremely messy piece of code, I spent a week cleaning it up and refactoring it like crazy
Dec 31 17:02:44 <alankila> each set of people works on their private copy and then their work is periodically merged upwards to their parent, who merge it to their parent, and so on
Dec 31 17:03:08 <alankila> generally the more fixed the surrounding world with respect to your own code, the higher the chance that you actually manage to make something that works
Dec 31 17:03:20 <alankila> all problems are then just integration problems and with any luck somebody else's responsibility :-p
Dec 31 17:03:24 <maslen> yup. moving target and the like
Dec 31 17:03:39 <Pfhoenix> I don't mind moving targets when I have high-velocity rounds
Dec 31 17:03:52 <maslen> How fast can you type/think ?
Dec 31 17:03:55 <maslen> :)
Dec 31 17:04:01 <Pfhoenix> just no fun when the targets get taken off the range entirely.
Dec 31 17:04:25 <luyang> The most popular app in Sweden right now is a Quiz app where people have to answer questions against each other and get ranked
Dec 31 17:04:57 <Pfhoenix> anyways, time to run some errands
Dec 31 17:05:10 <luyang> errands.execute(); // done
Dec 31 17:05:19 <maslen> No, this is Java.
Dec 31 17:05:20 <alankila> errands.execute() may take long time to return
Dec 31 17:05:43 <Pfhoenix> you mean push(new Runnable() { getShitDone(); } );
Dec 31 17:05:50 <luyang> errands.execute(errandAsyncCallBackHelper);
Dec 31 17:05:50 <AmandaC> Application luyang is not responding. [ Force Close ] [ Report ] [ Wait ]
Dec 31 17:06:06 <maslen> Errand errand = new ErrandBuilder().generateErrand();
Dec 31 17:06:45 <luyang> errand.show();
Dec 31 17:07:07 <alankila> I personally prefer the ExecutorService approach. Instead of Runnable, I have Callable, whose method call() crucially can throw
Dec 31 17:07:11 <luyang> like how many times haven't you forgot to show the toast!!
Dec 31 17:07:40 <AmandaC> mmmm toast...
Dec 31 17:07:41 <alankila> also, Executors return Futures making it easier to coordinate the result of multiple Future<?> without thread.join bullshit
Dec 31 17:07:44 <luyang> there are so many concurrency options
Dec 31 17:07:57 <alankila> honestly executorservices impress me.
Dec 31 17:07:57 <luyang> AmandaC: you seem like a fun Android gal
Dec 31 17:08:20 <alankila> android asynctasks are also based on them, of course, and I guess for a good reason
Dec 31 17:08:23 * AmandaC likes to think she's fun, yes.
Dec 31 17:08:36 <alankila> she also suggested above that she's into other (android?) gals
Dec 31 17:08:42 <luyang> alankila: but what happens with the AsyncTask when you rotate your device?
Dec 31 17:08:51 <luyang> unless you use them in Fragments huh?
Dec 31 17:08:59 <alankila> if you rotate your device, you cause all the bits fall sideways out of the cpu registesrs
Dec 31 17:09:01 <luyang> And what about Loaders
Dec 31 17:09:02 <AmandaC> luyang: it's parent disappears and your app crashes when it tries to return
Dec 31 17:09:02 <alankila> so don't do that!
Dec 31 17:09:34 <maslen> alankila: :)
Dec 31 17:09:53 <luyang> I have the pro android 4 book and I think I read about using fragments for background processing… seems like good stuff
Dec 31 17:11:36 <luyang> seriously, Eclipse is building my workspace… 77% since like half an hour ago when I launched it
Dec 31 17:11:50 <JamesLeeds> I'd say its probably not then!
Dec 31 17:11:52 <luyang> oh there was a Java HL error popu
Dec 31 17:11:59 <luyang> it had locked the ui
Dec 31 17:12:02 <AmandaC> luyang: it's pissy about you cheating on it with IntelliJ
Dec 31 17:12:05 <luyang> apparently I don't have Java HL
Dec 31 17:12:15 <luyang> AmandaC: yeah must be it ;)
Dec 31 17:14:50 <luyang> Does anyone know if there are free chess piece graphics available somewhere?
Dec 31 17:15:04 <luyang> would be fun to make yet another FICS client for Android
Dec 31 17:15:27 <alankila> Be a pro and use Arial to write Q for Queen
Dec 31 17:15:46 <luyang> I have certainly thought about making a text only chess client
Dec 31 17:15:51 <luyang> That would be geeky enough
Dec 31 17:15:55 <alankila> but look up those gnuchess and like, the graphics are probably free
Dec 31 17:15:59 <luyang> And I would charg $9.99
Dec 31 17:16:32 <luyang> No they would be with GPL license != free it would require me to open source and make my code GPL too if I understand correctly
Dec 31 17:16:37 <luyang> someone called GPL cancer if I remember correctly
Dec 31 17:16:52 <luyang> it spreads
Dec 31 17:17:07 <luyang> just don't quote me on that I'm confused
Dec 31 17:17:25 <alankila> nah, it doesn't spread. It's isolated into its own universe
Dec 31 17:17:48 <Leeds> it was ballmer who called GPL cancer, AFAIK
Dec 31 17:18:05 <alankila> though BSD folks are none happy about the BSD license permitting combination with GPL works, but GPL not permitting modifications under BSD.
Dec 31 17:18:10 <luyang> Leeds: yes sounds familiar
Dec 31 17:18:26 <alankila> so that's one way GPL is "converting" BSD codebase towards GPL-style licenses
Dec 31 17:18:28 <luyang> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_cancer/ for example
Dec 31 17:18:29 <JesusFreke> I much prefer idea's "find usages" too
Dec 31 17:18:34 <JesusFreke> damnit
Dec 31 17:18:39 <JesusFreke> was scrolled up :p
Dec 31 17:19:04 <luyang> JesusFreke: makes me wanna try IntelliJ if it could just understand my imported projects are bloody android projects
Dec 31 17:19:32 <alankila> anyway we have probably already seen the heyday of GPL.
Dec 31 17:19:35 <luyang> until then I stick to my old beloved Eclipse
Dec 31 17:20:02 <alankila> entire operating systems such as Android are there without almost anything under GPL, and GPL itself has fragmented into numerous incompatible licenses that take a flowchart to understand, every time you need to understand them
Dec 31 17:20:34 <alankila> and the classic contributions of the GNU project such as GCC are today replaceable by LLVM to little to no ill effect
Dec 31 17:20:57 <alankila> in fact I don't use GCC myself anymore, I think.
Dec 31 17:21:09 <JesusFreke> I like the wtfpl :)
Dec 31 17:21:29 <JesusFreke> I should dual license baksmali under that, actually
Dec 31 17:21:54 <alankila> GNU itself has always been kinda bureaucratic, it just compared favorably to the incredibly more bureaucratic competition it used to have in classic unix
Dec 31 17:22:19 <luyang> JesusFreke: cool
Dec 31 17:22:22 <alankila> though I was not personally there to see this. It's just evident that today GNU tends to mean slowly evolving codebases and political fighting
Dec 31 17:23:04 <alankila> overall the open source world is graying. I'm not sure where the young kids are, but I guess they aren't into gnu or fsf
Dec 31 17:23:22 * AmandaC is 21
Dec 31 17:23:28 * NITR0GEN is 16
Dec 31 17:23:37 <NITR0GEN> believe me, some of them are
Dec 31 17:23:37 * JesusFreke is a day older than he was yesterday
Dec 31 17:23:48 <luyang> Pfhoenix: http://vimeo.com/1195398 <—— cool no?
Dec 31 17:23:54 <NITR0GEN> JesusFreke, no <censored>, Sherlock?!
Dec 31 17:24:13 <luyang> It already exists? :o
Dec 31 17:24:20 <AmandaC> JesusFreke: NO WAI! THIS REQUIRES SCIENCE TO UNDERSTAND, TAKE IT AWAY, Basement Cat!
Dec 31 17:24:27 <alankila> yeah, perhaps the young kids are into android and iOS.
Dec 31 17:24:30 * JesusFreke goes back into his basement
Dec 31 17:24:52 <alankila> I'm 34 myself. By no means a dinosaur, at least if you asked me, but feeling kinda old-school anyway
Dec 31 17:24:54 <SuD> even the kernel has licensing issues like:
Dec 31 17:24:54 <SuD> kernel module A exports its symbols so other modules can use them, but only if the other module has defined its license attribute as GPL
Dec 31 17:25:45 <luyang> alankila: you born 1978 too? perkele that's cool
Dec 31 17:25:56 <alankila> luyang: that's my model number, yes.
Dec 31 17:26:01 <Leeds> oh god I'm old
Dec 31 17:26:03 <luyang> cool… like a good wine
Dec 31 17:26:13 <alankila> 34 is too old for wine :-p
Dec 31 17:26:13 <JesusFreke> I think the kernel is actually one of the few things that something like the gpl makes sense for
Dec 31 17:26:19 <luyang> New years eve causes people to get age panic
Dec 31 17:26:21 <alankila> though might be just fine for some strong alcohols
Dec 31 17:26:25 <SuD> i'll be 34 in a few months
Dec 31 17:26:40 <JesusFreke> Something that tends to get modified, and is an important basic necessity for doing anything with a device
Dec 31 17:27:08 <alankila> I was in a fairly good place in history, after all. Home computers arrived when I was a kid. I had internet in my teen years. I could do being a bit younger, or a bit older, or I can see distinct advantages to either
Dec 31 17:27:19 <alankila> but being the age I am is not bad with respect to computer technology
Dec 31 17:27:58 <SuD> 4 year old kids know how to use internet enabled smartphones
Dec 31 17:28:09 <SuD> you may have been an early adopter, but never like that
Dec 31 17:28:30 <alankila> I saw the BBS era, though not personally, as my folks were stringent with the phone bills
Dec 31 17:28:58 <someone-noone> Hello, Is it possible to decode h264 with hardware acceleration from NDK?
Dec 31 17:29:03 <alankila> but I spend nearly every waking hour with friends whose parents were not braindamaged in those specific ways having fun with the amazing idea that computers far away could talk to each other
Dec 31 17:29:23 <JesusFreke> Yeah, same here. although I didn't do the full BBS thing. we mostly just downloaded shareware from them. lol
Dec 31 17:30:12 <luyang> I loved BBS but my parents had to pay $250 for a month's telephone usage :/
Dec 31 17:30:21 <luyang> they were not too happy with me
Dec 31 17:30:32 <luyang> but I explored bbses and downloaded stuff over z modem
Dec 31 17:30:35 <luyang> it was fun!
Dec 31 17:30:35 <JesusFreke> we just used local, free ones
Dec 31 17:30:52 <luyang> local phone call was expensive in Sweden… Telia charged us too much
Dec 31 17:30:58 <JesusFreke> ah
Dec 31 17:31:43 <luyang> I remember logging into bbses and this guy launched y-chat and wrote to me… it was cool
Dec 31 17:31:54 <alankila> the guys of the previous generation were those who made the phone hacking boxes. I guess that was particular great era too, though fairly inaccessible, I should say
Dec 31 17:32:04 <alankila> there anyway weren't a whole lot of people who could do it
Dec 31 17:32:09 <luyang> alankila: phreaking?
Dec 31 17:32:13 <JesusFreke> I just remember thinking "holy crap! This game is 1MB? that's going to take forever to download"
Dec 31 17:32:14 <alankila> yes
Dec 31 17:32:15 <luyang> or what they called it
Dec 31 17:32:28 <SuD> all i know is i was the first of my friends to use IRC, and now i'm the only one that still uses it
Dec 31 17:32:31 <alankila> I do not truly know that terminology. It has never been interesting to me.
Dec 31 17:32:35 <luyang> I remember First Class client for online collaboration.. .it was sooo neat
Dec 31 17:32:42 <luyang> it might be swedish though
Dec 31 17:32:57 <JesusFreke> doesn't ring a bell
Dec 31 17:33:33 <luyang> it looked like this http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/2868111447_eff5b3fd17.jpg?v=0
Dec 31 17:34:13 <luyang> and had awesome sound effects
Dec 31 17:34:22 <luyang> think ICQ
Dec 31 17:34:30 <luyang> combined with Facebook
Dec 31 17:34:50 <Leeds> luyang: I *think* I used that in 1995 to work on a regional e-education system for northern Israel...
Dec 31 17:35:03 <luyang> Leeds: cool… :)
Dec 31 17:35:22 <Leeds> one of those things which, thinking back on it, was *way* ahead of its time
Dec 31 17:35:33 <luyang> Btw, do you guys use Content Providers whenever you use db or just go for db directly?
Dec 31 17:35:46 <luyang> Leeds: indeed!! it was awesome
Dec 31 17:35:50 <luyang> I also remember Compuserve
Dec 31 17:35:53 <alankila> luyang: CPs is for sharing between unconnected apps
Dec 31 17:36:03 <luyang> it was awesome! and FreeTel!! It was what cost my parents so much
Dec 31 17:36:04 <alankila> if you do it for yourself, ignore the abstraction, because it is a royal pain in the ass
Dec 31 17:36:18 <luyang> yeah… too much code
Dec 31 17:36:50 <luyang> I personally don't like the static field constants
Dec 31 17:37:18 <alankila> eh, what?
Dec 31 17:37:47 <luyang> nevermind
Dec 31 17:37:57 <luyang> so can I use a CursorLoader without a Content provider?
Dec 31 17:38:09 <AmandaC> no
Dec 31 17:38:33 <luyang> but what if I wanna do all db access in background?
Dec 31 17:38:55 <alankila> I am sad to say that everything ever designed is android is from the bureau of overcomplicating otherwise simple affairs
Dec 31 17:39:01 <alankila> is=in
Dec 31 17:39:28 <luyang> I kind of agree
Dec 31 17:39:39 <luyang> but gotta live with it =)
Dec 31 17:39:40 <alankila> there is nothing preventing concurrent access of sqlite db from multiple threads. Modern API levels even allow you to enable writeaheadlogging which means modification and reading concurrently is permitted
Dec 31 17:40:11 <alankila> so you can easily perform query from asynctask or whatever and once the slow query part is done, populate some listview or whatever from the result of the query
Dec 31 17:40:31 <alankila> but this angers the gods of android, so you may have to say 5 quick holymarys if you do this
Dec 31 17:40:31 <luyang> yeah, I just don't feel there's a THE way to do it?
Dec 31 17:40:40 <luyang> :D
Dec 31 17:40:56 <luyang> alankila: :D
Dec 31 17:41:01 <colegatron> Hi all
Dec 31 17:41:35 <luyang> AmandaC: it'd be nice to use loaders without CPs
Dec 31 17:41:57 <AmandaC> luyang: write a cudstom Loader impl
Dec 31 17:42:29 <colegatron> I am writing an app which has tree activities and each one is fired through a link in a web broser or email. It basically works, but I can not read the url arguments.
Dec 31 17:42:56 <colegatron> i.e. http://www.myapp.com/action1?name=john
Dec 31 17:43:23 <someone-noone> Hello, Is it possible to decode h264 with hardware acceleration from NDK?
Dec 31 17:43:25 <luyang> AmandaC: sounds like a good idea
Dec 31 17:43:27 <colegatron> the ?name=john does not appears a a getPathSegment
Dec 31 17:43:43 <colegatron> any clue on how to get it ?
Dec 31 17:43:54 <AmandaC> colegatron: because it's not a path segment, it's a query paramater
Dec 31 17:44:15 <alankila> luyang: or just put sqlite ops in a separate thread entirely and just work through some task abstraction which is similar to asynctask
Dec 31 17:44:20 <colegatron> AmandaC: ... and can the query parameters can be queried ?
Dec 31 17:44:36 <AmandaC> colegatron: not surre, let's find out!
Dec 31 17:44:40 <colegatron> AmandaC: sorry, let me check
Dec 31 17:44:45 <alankila> callbacks are shitty to read and can get confusing by the point you are 3 or more layers deep in them, but they are the best java got
Dec 31 17:44:47 <luyang> alankila: then I have to stitch the updating of the main thread ui elements too
Dec 31 17:45:20 <AmandaC> colegatron: https://developer.android.com/reference/java/net/URL.html#getQuery(), maybe?
Dec 31 17:45:25 <alankila> luyang: that's why the asynctask tech is so great because it is patterned correctly, whatever the shortcomings imposed by the other parts of the android framework
Dec 31 17:45:55 <luyang> or http://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/Uri.html#getQueryParameterNames%28%29
Dec 31 17:46:00 <luyang> colegatron: ^
Dec 31 17:46:28 <alankila> people work on python with direct syntax support for coroutines. They are the callbacks we want, but we can't get them.
Dec 31 17:46:28 <colegatron> AmandaC: anyway... I would be nice to fire an action with www.myapp.com/action/parm1/parm2 but I do not know if the intent-filter can use regularexpressions (myapp.com/action is always the same, but args changes and that url does not fire the action)
Dec 31 17:46:29 <luyang> alankila it's nice but it's not super concise and it's not 100% rotation friendly iiuc
Dec 31 17:46:42 <colegatron> AmandaC: luyang tnx for the links
Dec 31 17:46:55 <alankila> luyang: the rotation can be fixed through retainInstance and keeping all important stuff in the fragment instance
Dec 31 17:47:03 <alankila> it's a bit odd way to write the code, but it's the best android can do for you
Dec 31 17:47:20 <Elderwolf> What is the best way to check if a fragment has completed it's creation cycle before calling a function on it?
Dec 31 17:47:41 <alankila> the whole activity design is plain braindead and should be scrapped immediately, but it is not possible to do this. So enjoy the mediocrity.
Dec 31 17:48:14 <alankila> the key error is having onCreate but no onCreateView. If the activity instance could stay around, that would alleviate nearly 100 % of the problems. But they fucked that up, critically.
Dec 31 17:48:35 <alankila> the error has been corrected for fragments, however, though for some inexplicable reason retainInstance defaults to false
Dec 31 17:49:14 <alankila> I do not know what is driving the thinking behind android API design. Presumably there is sanity on the other side of the table from where I stand, but clearly the focus is not in making life *easy*.
Dec 31 17:51:18 <alankila> the other reliable crutch is the applicationContext, which can be used to register broadcastreceivers that work even if no activity of the app is visible as long as the app itself is alive
Dec 31 17:51:48 <alankila> for fragments that are retained, that could be just what you need
Dec 31 17:52:21 <alankila> and finally application can be forced to stay around by having a dummy foreground service whose only purpose is to force android task killer to skip it
Dec 31 17:52:23 * AmandaC wonders when this mystical new support library will be released.
Dec 31 17:52:39 <alankila> with a bunch of fixes that make gods of android quite irate, android programming is suddenly almost sane
Dec 31 17:52:40 <luyang> AmandaC: I hope it will have backported the ActionBar
Dec 31 17:53:01 <AmandaC> At I/O they hinte3d they were working on something to help developers do stuff with best practices and such, but there hasn't been a peep since
Dec 31 17:53:17 <luyang> they already have Lint
Dec 31 17:54:11 <luyang> but I guess they meant something even better
Dec 31 17:54:19 <alankila> what we need could be a complete from-scratch redesign of the application framework. And every app should carry their own copy. Only use a small subset of the framework to keep the apk size reasonable, but all this activity stuff is probably too horrible to keep around
Dec 31 17:54:36 <alankila> at least I can always hope
Dec 31 17:56:32 <luyang> They could always rewrite something which auto-converted to old byte code for compatibility
Dec 31 17:57:02 <alankila> that is not exactly the sort of thing that is even true
Dec 31 17:57:25 <alankila> if you redesign something you change the design. You will of course have to keep the old crap supported, or your platform is suddenly useless in view of your users
Dec 31 17:57:31 <luyang> Btw, if I write 10 apps with the support library, wouldn't it be better if the user had installed the support library to his device once and for all from Google Play instead?
Dec 31 17:57:52 <alankila> automatic conversion from one design to another is not better -- that implies the new design is exactly equivalent to the old one.
Dec 31 17:57:53 * AmandaC wonders why her LiveView insists that two texts are unread
Dec 31 17:58:16 <alankila> luyang: sure. Doing this properly is hard
Dec 31 17:58:25 <luyang> alankila: it can be internally functionally equivalent but abstracted… like the AppInventor
Dec 31 17:58:31 <alankila> the zygote process should probably be restarted to contain all versions of the support library anybody needs
Dec 31 17:58:38 <alankila> though whether that's even possible is hard to say
Dec 31 17:59:11 <alankila> but sure, if android framework moves more to the apk side then that would imply that there's ways to fire up apks which reference libraries they don't contain and did not ship on user's device
Dec 31 17:59:18 <AmandaC> alankila: the idea of the support libraries is that it's for older versions of Android, so you don't have to do lots of version-checking logic in your own code.
Dec 31 17:59:38 <luyang> AmandaC: it could be bundled with Google Play Services instead, no?
Dec 31 17:59:53 * AmandaC shrugs
Dec 31 17:59:55 <luyang> perhaps GPS is not available for Android 1.5 for example?
Dec 31 18:00:08 <AmandaC> That's something I've been meaning to play with, though, at some point
Dec 31 18:00:15 <alankila> it's probably too hard to do in practice, luyang
Dec 31 18:00:19 <luyang> alankila: maybe
Dec 31 18:00:36 <luyang> might be some magic going on in the ide
Dec 31 18:00:43 <luyang> which is not appropriate to distribute to devices
Dec 31 18:00:55 <alankila> To really work well, it would have to be in the zygote process so that the kernel process COW technology could share the pages, or maybe they could rely on the kernel samepage merging (ksm) technology to reap memory savings from multiple apps referencing same library bytecodes
Dec 31 18:00:55 <luyang> like proguard
Dec 31 18:01:01 <monsti> i don't think 2.3 will be the most available android version very long
Dec 31 18:01:27 <alankila> monsti: I sure hope you are right, but it's instructive that 2.3's share has remained the same for a year
Dec 31 18:01:28 <monsti> after 24months most cell phone batteries are almost dead
Dec 31 18:01:44 <alankila> 4.x's issue is higher cost
Dec 31 18:01:45 <luyang> Android 3 isn't even available for phones is it?
Dec 31 18:01:50 <alankila> more flash, more memory, fpu-capable cpu
Dec 31 18:02:01 <monsti> luyang: 3 was tablet only
Dec 31 18:02:12 <luyang> right… that's what I though
Dec 31 18:02:13 <luyang> t
Dec 31 18:02:34 <monsti> alankila: we decided against 2.x support for our buisness app
Dec 31 18:02:45 <alankila> I applaud the tendency for android to converge towards general-purpose computing, and inclusion of FPU is exactly the sort of thing that might cause a bulge in pants if I really cared about that sort of thing
Dec 31 18:02:48 <luyang> I wanna buy a Google TV box in January
Dec 31 18:03:35 <alankila> but the point is, 2 years is a long time for wait to 2.3 to die. Its share *will* go down, that's of course certain, but how fast? Most people are stuck with supporting 2.3 until its share is less than 10 %
Dec 31 18:03:54 <alankila> at least based on how people here talk about it. There are people who support even 1.5 for sake of completeness
Dec 31 18:04:16 <monsti> alankila: thank god i am no whatsapp coder ;)
Dec 31 18:04:22 <alankila> and while I urge ignoring anything with market share less than 10 %, a lot of people would disagree. And 2.3 is long way away from hitting 10 %
Dec 31 18:05:24 <alankila> most businesses probably don't consider removing support if it represents some higher fraction, like 20 %. I'm guessing -- there is no way to tell what the share is -- but ask any person if they want to kill 20 % of their sales and they're going to instictively say no
Dec 31 18:05:31 <alankila> most people probably say no to even 10 %. That's just how it is.
Dec 31 18:05:44 <monsti> it depends on absolute numbers ;)
Dec 31 18:05:50 <monsti> percent suck
Dec 31 18:06:32 <monsti> if you have 200000 paying customers with 1.6 - well - you better support them!
Dec 31 18:06:38 <alankila> and today it's 50 %. It's hard to voluntarily turn away from half of the market, though 2.3 must die. There's no question about it.
Dec 31 18:07:04 <luyang> 4+ is currently the future
Dec 31 18:07:07 <alankila> monsti: funny you'd say that. I'd look at it through the percent lens and nothing else
Dec 31 18:07:51 <alankila> you should spend effort on what makes most sense for today and future. People on 1.5, even if there was a lot of them in absolute terms, shouldn't be more than around 1 % of your userbase, so you aren't justified spending a lot of time to care about them.
Dec 31 18:08:47 <alankila> some people argue that you should spend extra care on the old versions just because so many people don't, but I think it's a bit crazy to spend effort on what is diminishing market. The gains you can have shrink any time and you could expend infinite amount of effort for practically no effect.
Dec 31 18:08:54 <luyang> 80/20 rule huh
Dec 31 18:08:58 <luyang> or 99/1
Dec 31 18:09:38 <monsti> well i would even support the 1% if they pay 500000$/year
Dec 31 18:09:54 <alankila> monsti: yes. Support the 1 % to the degree they pay off relative to the 99 %
Dec 31 18:09:58 <alankila> but the 99 % matters 100 times more.
Dec 31 18:10:13 <alankila> literally.
Dec 31 18:10:20 <luyang> monsti: would you say the 1% might be more profitable?
Dec 31 18:10:22 <JesusFreke> 99 times more.
Dec 31 18:10:23 <JesusFreke> ;)
Dec 31 18:10:24 <alankila> well, 99 times more
Dec 31 18:10:27 <JesusFreke> hehe
Dec 31 18:10:29 <maslen> :)
Dec 31 18:11:30 <monsti> luyang: i would say look at the absolute numbers
Dec 31 18:11:38 <alankila> the problem with the support argument is really that in 1-2 years that 1 % is going to look like 0 %
Dec 31 18:11:41 <monsti> luyang: if the 1% pays you 5$ - don't care
Dec 31 18:11:51 <alankila> and it is irrespective to what you do. It's just device lifecycle.
Dec 31 18:12:02 <sonOfRa> actually, you should care. keeping compatibility costs money
Dec 31 18:12:07 <monsti> luyang: if the 1% are 500000$ - well - support them! it's worth to pay one coder only for 1.6
Dec 31 18:12:16 <luyang> monsti: you should care if it costs LOTS to support them
Dec 31 18:12:16 <sonOfRa> and there is always going to be a break even point
Dec 31 18:12:30 <monsti> luyang: that's what the percent hide ;)
Dec 31 18:12:45 <sonOfRa> and once you're past a certain point, there is no point in supporting the smaller fraction
Dec 31 18:13:01 <monsti> e.g. "we lost 20% at the stock market but we already gained 20%" <- same BS ;)
Dec 31 18:13:06 <luyang> if 1% pays that much, then 99% would pay 99x as much?
Dec 31 18:13:21 <luyang> I don't get your point
Dec 31 18:13:39 <monsti> luyang: yeah it's 99 times more - but if the 1% is already 500000 then pay one coder (!) just for that
Dec 31 18:13:48 <canadiancow> i don't think you know who businesses work
Dec 31 18:13:54 <luyang> monsti: sure if you wanna support 100%…
Dec 31 18:13:55 <sonOfRa> but that scenario is completely unlikely
Dec 31 18:14:04 <luyang> yeah
Dec 31 18:14:09 <sonOfRa> the 1% is unlikely to pay that much
Dec 31 18:14:11 <canadiancow> if one coder at salary X can generate 100X in revenue
Dec 31 18:14:19 <canadiancow> no one is going to pay someone X/2 to generate X
Dec 31 18:14:34 <canadiancow> because they could find other work that will generate a 100x return
Dec 31 18:14:37 <luyang> interesting good point
Dec 31 18:15:05 <luyang> but perhaps he has a fetisch about supporting 100%
Dec 31 18:15:10 <luyang> then it might be worth it
Dec 31 18:15:13 <luyang> for him
Dec 31 18:15:15 <luyang> :P
Dec 31 18:15:23 <monsti> i look at absolute numbers not at percent
Dec 31 18:15:35 <canadiancow> then good luck with your business
Dec 31 18:15:41 <sonOfRa> and where do you get the numbers that 1% is generating that much revenue?!
Dec 31 18:15:44 <canadiancow> because that's not how successful companies do it
Dec 31 18:15:49 <luyang> I agree with canadian here
Dec 31 18:16:09 <canadiancow> if you can find work that will generate a 10,000% return, you are not going to do something that generates a 200% return
Dec 31 18:16:22 <monsti> canadiancow: i don't get your point
Dec 31 18:16:37 <monsti> if something is getting 500000 - why drop it?
Dec 31 18:16:49 <monsti> it's still money - right?
Dec 31 18:16:53 <alankila> monsti: most people pay developers for future sales. The money you got from people is already yours, so you don't support people just for that, you want future business. Rationally, there is no future business from 1.5 %, even if you had some renewing subscription app
Dec 31 18:16:55 <luyang> monsti: if you can sell 1 sausage at $1 or if you can sell 100 sausages at $500, what would you choose?
Dec 31 18:16:58 <sonOfRa> because you can most likely 1000000 with the same dev somewhere else
Dec 31 18:17:00 <alankila> sorry, 1.5 % => 1.5 android
Dec 31 18:17:00 <canadiancow> but it's less money than you would get doing something else
Dec 31 18:17:27 <canadiancow> i think my heater's broken :\
Dec 31 18:17:29 <alankila> monsti: because there is no future in 1.5, so there's no sense to develop it, or spend any effort to maintain it
Dec 31 18:17:34 <canadiancow> 1.5 lol
Dec 31 18:17:40 <canadiancow> i just dropped 2.1 on my personal app
Dec 31 18:17:53 <luyang> Btw, how does Project target API level affect the compatibility?
Dec 31 18:18:02 <luyang> I got some warning about having to use @TargetAPI
Dec 31 18:18:13 <bubbleguuum> for a new app, I would consider making it 4+ only
Dec 31 18:18:22 <canadiancow> well if you call an method from api16 on a deviec running 2.1, it will crash
Dec 31 18:18:25 <sonOfRa> The target. But support needs 2.3 at the moment
Dec 31 18:18:27 <canadiancow> bubbleguuum, what?
Dec 31 18:18:30 <luyang> so the code is compiled to the targetApi byte code but supports minApi devices?
Dec 31 18:18:31 <canadiancow> oh 4.0+?
Dec 31 18:18:32 <canadiancow> not api4
Dec 31 18:18:35 <bubbleguuum> yes
Dec 31 18:18:38 <canadiancow> heh
Dec 31 18:18:41 <bubbleguuum> 4.0+
Dec 31 18:18:50 <canadiancow> i can definitely see the reasons
Dec 31 18:18:58 <canadiancow> but then you've cut out 75% of the market
Dec 31 18:19:10 <sonOfRa> I target 4.0+, but I definitely build for 2.3 compatibility
Dec 31 18:19:14 <canadiancow> i work on an app that has minSdkVersion="14"
Dec 31 18:19:17 <bubbleguuum> depends on the type of app you make..in my category, 75% are using 4.0+
Dec 31 18:19:34 <alankila> My lone android app has had like 3 sales, so I'm clearly very qualified to talk about this :D
Dec 31 18:19:45 <sonOfRa> :D
Dec 31 18:19:54 <canadiancow> well bubbleguuum, it depends on what you're doing
Dec 31 18:20:05 <canadiancow> with some new apis in 4.2, i could seriously consider dropping everything below 4.2
Dec 31 18:20:06 <alankila> though I don't do android apps to be rich. I do stuff I want to see. I know it's not the kind of stuff that interests the majority of people.
Dec 31 18:20:10 <canadiancow> becuase they'd make my app so much better/simpler
Dec 31 18:20:11 <canadiancow> :P
Dec 31 18:20:25 <canadiancow> alankila, that's what i do too
Dec 31 18:20:27 <canadiancow> at least for fun
Dec 31 18:20:32 <canadiancow> at work, i do what i'm told ;)
Dec 31 18:20:41 <alankila> I have a business that keeps the bread on the table
Dec 31 18:21:08 <alankila> and gf that has a steady job that does it if I don't have any, though I've been really busy for the last few months
Dec 31 18:22:37 <alankila> I had an idea of doing some kind of flight sim -style game from some perlin noise terrain and stuff like that, but it basically got starved out of attention a few months ago
Dec 31 18:23:03 <alankila> I managed to prototype the terrain generator though: https://bel.fi/alankila/left5.jpg
Dec 31 18:25:08 <alankila> people who know what perlin noise terrain looks like should recognize that this is not your average perlin noise either
Dec 31 18:26:13 <luyang> is that your generated terrain?
Dec 31 18:26:25 <alankila> yep
Dec 31 18:26:38 <luyang> it looks like the mountains in Bf3
Dec 31 18:26:44 <luyang> cool stuff
Dec 31 18:27:09 <AmandaC> canadiancow: what APIs in 4.2 would those be?
Dec 31 18:27:16 <luyang> I bought Beginning Android Games 2nd edition, at least it can give me a start
Dec 31 18:27:31 <luyang> AmandaC: the new lock screen screensaver is cool
Dec 31 18:27:36 * AmandaC doesn't remember anything particularly new and ground-breaking when she was poking around a bit ago
Dec 31 18:27:54 <AmandaC> the dreams thing's been in the works since honeycomb, I think
Dec 31 18:28:23 <luyang> AmandaC: Daydream, new in Android 4.2, brings this kind of laid-back, whimsical experience to Android phones and tablets ( http://android-developers.blogspot.se/ )
Dec 31 18:28:33 <alankila> the real problem with this terrain is that it's rather costly to calculate. I would have to reduce resolution until it looks like shit and generate the detail with some less savory approaches, and perhaps reach realtime rendering speed
Dec 31 18:28:51 <AmandaC> luyang: yes, I knwo it was exposed in 4.2, but that doesn't mean they havn't been working on it for awhile. :P
Dec 31 18:28:54 <alankila> right now it's a raytracer. Around 16 seconds for million rays on a 2012 MBA
Dec 31 18:29:27 <luyang> AmandaC: I don't know how "in the works" affects things
Dec 31 18:29:50 <luyang> nevermind
Dec 31 18:30:24 <alankila> also I could use a height map based terrain rather than true 3-dimensional scalar function, but 2-dimensional heightmaps look boring as shit no matter what you do
Dec 31 18:30:55 <alankila> there are caves inside the mountains, I explored them a bit when I was prototyping it.
Dec 31 18:31:07 <luyang> ok my brain has overflow
Dec 31 18:31:11 <luyang> too much red bull
Dec 31 18:31:52 <AmandaC> Hmm
Dec 31 18:33:04 * AmandaC really needs to buy a replacement touchpad for her netbook
Dec 31 18:33:27 * AmandaC is getting tired of having to find her external mouse to do some stuff
Dec 31 18:35:36 * AmandaC is trying to decide what a LiveView plugin should look like, both in code and in the end-product
Dec 31 18:36:33 <sleepster> is there a way to create a native service using the ndk ?
Dec 31 18:38:06 <sleepster> this can also be a simple native executable binary
Dec 31 18:40:07 <luyang> LiveView you really love your liveview don't you
Dec 31 18:40:29 <AmandaC> luyang: I'm quite taken with it, yes. :P
Dec 31 18:40:49 <AmandaC> It's API is a running disaster, though
Dec 31 18:42:02 <luyang> AmandaC: The closest I've come to LiveView is the source code in Bankdroid https://github.com/liato/android-bankdroid/tree/master/src/com/sonyericsson/extras/liveview
Dec 31 18:44:15 <AmandaC> Heh, they just use the AIDL files, not the base service thing they provide
Dec 31 18:44:49 <lut4rp> Woot the new year is here!
Dec 31 18:45:13 <alankila> it's hard to forget the new year when everything outside goes boom boom
Dec 31 18:45:30 <luyang> AmandaC: yeah is that a good or a bad thing? :P
Dec 31 18:45:36 <alankila> I think I'll honor new year by playing far cry 3 from a steam discount sale.
Dec 31 18:48:16 <luyang> I like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvk33uKqMwM Android Application Development Tutorial - 162 - Basic Widget Design
Dec 31 18:48:47 <alankila> I remember I was pretty impressed when I wrote the EqualizerSurface for DSPManager
Dec 31 18:48:58 <alankila> It was one of the first things I did in android and it went pretty painlessly
Dec 31 18:49:13 <luyang> happy gaming
Dec 31 18:49:45 <alankila> I think the general ui stuff is pretty good, or at least I've had little complaints. It's the activities (and to lesser degree, fragments) that suck
Dec 31 18:51:00 <alankila> but the thing I liked was that a completely custom widget with custom drawing and custom touch handling was actually pretty easy to get working
Dec 31 18:58:07 <p_l> NITR0GEN: I am currently in Poland, but I spent last few years mostly in Scotland (where they made it possible to buy N4 through Play Store... but I'm on industrial placement here)
Dec 31 19:02:16 <luyang> nastrowije or something like that
Dec 31 19:10:43 <luyang> Any tips on making app graphics?
Dec 31 19:10:54 <preds> what sort of graphics
Dec 31 19:14:33 <someone-noone> Hello, Is it possible to decode h264 with hardware acceleration from NDK?
Dec 31 19:15:19 <p_l> in later APIs, afaik
Dec 31 19:15:26 <p_l> with OpenMAX AL or something like that
Dec 31 19:15:45 <someone-noone> thanks
Dec 31 19:16:20 <someone-noone> And there is no reason to use Java calls to C for this, yes? (As it will be very slow)
Dec 31 19:16:33 <p_l> not necessarily very slow
Dec 31 19:16:45 <p_l> depends on what exactly you're trying to achieve
Dec 31 19:17:04 <p_l> mind you, you have better chances on using java-side framework
Dec 31 19:17:37 <someone-noone> p_I, I have cross-platform(iOS, Win, Mac and Linux currently) application that's written on C++. I want to port it as easy as possible
Dec 31 19:17:40 <luyang> preds: icons and neat stuff that makes an app pretty… on iOS it'd be shiny buttons and gradients etc
Dec 31 19:17:58 <someone-noone> My app uses HA where it's possible
Dec 31 19:18:05 <p_l> HA?
Dec 31 19:18:13 <someone-noone> hardware acceleration
Dec 31 19:18:25 <someone-noone> and it's done in class Decoder
Dec 31 19:18:30 <preds> luyang, sounds like a job for a graphic designer, not an android developer
Dec 31 19:18:38 <p_l> someone-noone: well, it depends on what exactly you want to port. I recommend redoing the GUI anyway, most of the time
Dec 31 19:18:53 <someone-noone> GUI will be of course on java
Dec 31 19:18:54 <p_l> though I know examples of programs that had same GUI code on iOS and Android and did it well
Dec 31 19:19:19 <luyang> preds I wanna develop apps on my own
Dec 31 19:19:32 <p_l> someone-noone: well, you could make an android-specific Decoder that would kick back to apropriate GUI code to display (or capture and encode) video
Dec 31 19:20:19 <p_l> it *is*, afaik, possible to access some of the media stuff from NDK, but the support varies wildly with OS versions (so, my N4 probably does it without problem, my previous phone would go "LOL WTF?")
Dec 31 19:22:19 <someone-noone> Displaying will be done in C++ (as it's already written with OpenGL with GPU accelerated YUV->RGB converting). I want that my app (better to call it library in this meaning) takes android window\surface from java code to draw video and all job will be already done by C++ code. Library is simple video player with network recv\send
Dec 31 19:22:57 <someone-noone> And GUI will be completely written on java
Dec 31 19:23:25 <someone-noone> The problem is HA h264 accelerated. Sure I can do it on CPU, but don't want to destroy user's battery :)
Dec 31 19:23:41 <p_l> someone-noone: I recommend you go through the NDK docs, as bad as they are sometimes, and check the APIs for accessing device's codecs
Dec 31 19:23:55 <p_l> I do recall some, but I don't know which version they start on
Dec 31 19:24:06 <someone-noone> thanks, sorry for my "general" question, as I'm not android developer, unfortunately
Dec 31 19:24:09 <someone-noone> will look docs
Dec 31 19:24:44 <p_l> just remember that someone probably will have a broken device that despite advertising apropriate API level will not run properly ;)
Dec 31 19:25:23 <someone-noone> hm, ok. Where can I read about it(where it's supported, where not)?
Dec 31 19:25:31 <p_l> and I have used apps that also had common UI (with OpenGL involved, I think) between iOS and Android - funnily enough, outside of games, it was office package
Dec 31 19:26:10 <p_l> someone-noone: download NDK from d.android.com and unpack it. The docs aren't nicest visually, but you can check what is supported from which version of the OS
Dec 31 19:26:21 <someone-noone> thanks a lot
Dec 31 19:33:36 <luyang> preds: Heureka! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtyzOo7nJrQ
Dec 31 19:46:00 <twaddington> Does anyone know at what point in the Activity lifecycle the screenshot is captured for the recent apps list? Changing the layout in onPause has no effect on the screen capture, so it must be taken before then.
Dec 31 19:48:11 <preds> twaddington, you can set a secure layout param to prevent the screenshot being taken
Dec 31 19:48:20 <preds> I'm not sure you can actually tailor what the screenshot looks like
Dec 31 19:48:56 <preds> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9822076/how-do-i-prevent-android-taking-a-screenshot-when-my-app-goes-to-the-background.
Dec 31 19:49:00 <twaddington> preds: yeah, I know about that. I'd like to more fully understand how it works though. I was hoping someone had looked at it already so I wouldn't have to go digging through the code.
Dec 31 19:49:44 <preds> not sure in that case sorry :)
Dec 31 19:49:49 <twaddington> Yeah, thanks :)
Dec 31 19:49:54 <twaddington> I probably need to go dig into the source.
Dec 31 19:51:38 <twaddington> I have a feeling it's taken after starting, instead of when it's finishing.
Dec 31 19:51:52 <twaddington> They probably spin up a Thread after onResume or something to capture the image.
Dec 31 19:53:04 <karakuri> Does anyone know why AdapterViewFlipper (or the more abstract AdapterViewAnimator) only lets you use ObjectAnimators and not AnimatorSets for the in/out animations?
Dec 31 19:54:17 <karakuri> can't make very good animations with just one ObjectAnimator, would have liked to be able to do some composite thing like translate and fade, etc...
Dec 31 19:54:22 <FernandoMiguel> Happy 2013 New Years Party!
Dec 31 20:06:47 <Bitgod> erm
Dec 31 20:06:57 <Bitgod> where is the ic_launcher.png defined in code
Dec 31 20:08:23 <Bitgod> nm i got it was under manifest
Dec 31 20:20:44 <Bitgod> how do i make my apk installer make a icon on desktop?
Dec 31 20:26:17 <socket> hey, any recommended reading on android game development? simple 2D graphics.. nothing too fancy
Dec 31 20:33:08 <joeyjones> is it possible to force an external activity launched with an intent to the top of the activity stack?
Dec 31 20:33:16 <joeyjones> for some reason it's not consistent between devices.
Dec 31 20:36:01 <AmandaC> Bitgod: APK installer?
Dec 31 20:42:06 <twaddington> joeyjones: are you trying to make sure the back button brings the user back to your app?
Dec 31 20:43:06 <twaddington> If so, you should set FLAG_ACTIVITY_CLEAR_TOP and FLAG_ACTIVITY_NEW_TASK on the intent.
Dec 31 20:47:32 <joeyjones> twaddington: the app launches a video through an intent, and samsung certification flagged an error because when you hit the home button and re-launch the app it goes to the page to launch the video
Dec 31 20:51:10 <twaddington> joeyjones: huh
Dec 31 20:52:43 <capella> when you're in a meeting with new faces and they start discussing the products from a "user experience" perspective, bet that they're from marketing...
Dec 31 20:54:12 <joeyjones> twaddington: i don't know how to "fix" this, as all my devices work find but the samsung devices don't...
Dec 31 20:54:51 <twaddington> joeyjones: yeah, that's a tough one. I've never worked with their certification program.
Dec 31 20:55:12 <karakuri> capella: or product management
Dec 31 20:55:24 <capella> karakuri++
Dec 31 20:55:52 <karakuri> but their concerns are often valid,
Dec 31 20:56:15 <karakuri> UX issues can kill your app's rating
Dec 31 20:57:08 <capella> I'd be happy to rant in detail, but when they have you remove a feature and the users scream so loud we're forced to put it back, then they make us take it out again...
Dec 31 20:57:10 <p_l> capella: there's marketing and there's marketing
Dec 31 20:57:26 <p_l> you apparently got the wrong, corpothink one :)
Dec 31 20:57:40 <joeyjones> twaddington: i may have to add an activity with a video player embeded in it to get it to work
Dec 31 20:57:45 <capella> heh ... they're *everywhere*
Dec 31 20:57:47 <sleepster> is there a simple way to build the android ndk from the AOSP source?
Dec 31 21:02:52 <sleepster> I am trying to build a binder server in native code and the example I am using references some header files
Dec 31 21:02:58 <sleepster> that are in the android framework
Dec 31 21:03:07 <sleepster> which is not a part of the android ndk that I downloaded
Dec 31 21:03:11 <p_l> sleepster: you're deep in unsupported territory
Dec 31 21:03:26 <p_l> you'll have to build your code not with NDK, but with the AOSP sources
Dec 31 21:03:35 <sleepster> oh I see
Dec 31 21:03:44 <p_l> ~/act
Dec 31 21:03:51 <sleepster> that actually seems easier :)
Dec 31 21:04:15 <p_l> sleepster: had similar case when we needed to build OpenSSL and libcurl, and NDK was failing us
Dec 31 21:04:23 <p_l> but the project died before we fixed that :D
Dec 31 21:04:27 <sleepster> haha
Dec 31 21:04:28 <sleepster> :)
Dec 31 21:04:59 <sleepster> so I just create a directory then in the android framework and add an Android.mk correct? I believe most of the android make files have include-subdir-makefile
Dec 31 21:05:06 <sleepster> so it should just build mine as is
Dec 31 21:05:08 <p_l> mind you, building a native binder is very, very deep into unsupported "you're on your own" territory
Dec 31 21:05:25 <sleepster> :( that stinks
Dec 31 21:05:36 <p_l> or just reference stuff from a half-built AOSP
Dec 31 21:06:08 <sleepster> well I have a fully-sync fully-built AOSP build on my machine, so I guess I can just use what I have
Dec 31 21:06:23 <sleepster> as a research experiment, I am planning to add some functionality to AOSP
Dec 31 21:06:34 <sleepster> which requires a native service
Dec 31 21:06:50 <sleepster> and I need to interact with this native service, so I am using JNI to communicate from my app to the native service
Dec 31 21:07:10 <[twisti]> when trying to build my app on jenkins, i get this error: http://pastebin.com/3AbvXLSb
Dec 31 21:07:18 <[twisti]> anyone know how i can fix that ?
Dec 31 21:08:33 <AmandaC> Can someone tell me why this is throwing "Can not access this from static context" on line 44? http://amanda.darkdna.net/p/fe0c7
Dec 31 21:09:50 <[twisti]> AmandaC: because weatherresult is not static
Dec 31 21:09:57 <[twisti]> so you need an instance of weatherapi to make one
Dec 31 21:10:13 <AmandaC> oh. doh
Dec 31 21:11:03 * AmandaC isn't really sur ehow the "Static" keyword plays with the whole thing
Dec 31 21:11:29 <[twisti]> if you dont know java basics, you might be better off reading a tutorial
Dec 31 21:11:39 <[twisti]> basically, static means that something is not part of an instance
Dec 31 21:11:59 <maslen> that's a nice way to describe it
Dec 31 21:12:07 <maslen> static is class-level, not instance-level
Dec 31 21:12:10 <AmandaC> Yes, but my mental model for classes and years of programming with different languages has no place for an instance variable / whatever being an embedded class
Dec 31 21:12:19 <[twisti]> so when you made getWeather static, it means that when you call it, not instance of WeatherApi is available
Dec 31 21:12:56 <[twisti]> ah, well, thats fair, thats a bit unintuitive
Dec 31 21:13:07 <[twisti]> by default, inner classes are instance-level, not static
Dec 31 21:14:02 <[twisti]> youre doing kind of weird things there
Dec 31 21:14:07 <[twisti]> i take it youre coming from C ?
Dec 31 21:14:19 <monsti> yeah static in java is somehow strange
Dec 31 21:14:50 <FrankRocks> is it bad to use java 1.7, as opposed to 1.6?
Dec 31 21:14:57 <FrankRocks> while working with 4.2
Dec 31 21:15:29 <[twisti]> heh, im trying to find a way to get the ant task to use 1.6 to compile instead of 1.5
Dec 31 21:15:57 <[twisti]> for a lower api target obviously
Dec 31 21:16:05 <[twisti]> how would you even do that ?
Dec 31 21:16:45 <gnac> Okay, so I've installed cm 10.1 on my skyrocket.  Of course android now uses the ptp method instead of usb for mounting the sdcards.  I get the notice of the device in my linux/KDE environment, but I can't actually access any files.  Any guides on how to revert to usb?
Dec 31 21:17:23 <[twisti]> gnac: you might have more luck in #android-root with that question
Dec 31 21:17:42 <[twisti]> and i think theres actually a cm channel somewhere as well
Dec 31 21:18:50 <gnac> [twisti]: ty, but this is really an android jellybean issue, and not a cyanogenmod issue.  i.e. the mtp device usage instead of usb mass storage.
Dec 31 21:19:41 <[twisti]> ah ok
Dec 31 21:26:12 <FrankRocks> frameworks/av/media/libstagefright/MPEG4Extractor.cpp:44:25: fatal error: QCMediaDefs.h: No such file or directory compilation terminated.
Dec 31 21:26:57 <FrankRocks> not too sure why i hit enter on that already, havent' even looked into it yet
Dec 31 21:28:06 <FrankRocks> ok yeh. that doesn't exist
Dec 31 21:28:22 <FrankRocks> anybody shed some insite on how I can go about this issue?
Dec 31 21:29:03 <sdaq> why do I have to have network in order to get my gps lat/lon?
Dec 31 21:29:46 <FrankRocks> you shouldn't have to... but it will definately help it
Dec 31 21:30:25 <FrankRocks> most devices use "assisted-GPS", where it has a weak GPS device in it, then uses the phones' network to help locate what towers you're surrounded by
Dec 31 21:32:47 <AmandaC> can I make a android.text.StaticLayout center the text vertically as well?
Dec 31 21:32:53 <AmandaC> s/a /an /
Dec 31 21:35:49 <AmandaC> hmm, I could move the canvas by half the calculated size, I guess, but that feels wrong.
Dec 31 21:36:59 <sdaq> well without network i'm getting zeros
Dec 31 21:37:07 <sdaq> so ... weird?
Dec 31 21:37:27 <AmandaC> sdaq: even if you wait a bit?
Dec 31 21:37:46 <sdaq> AmandaC: I waited about 20 min
Dec 31 21:38:00 <AmandaC> sdaq: screen on, app actively looking?
Dec 31 21:38:26 <sdaq> AmandaC: yup
Dec 31 21:38:36 <sdaq> once I turned network on, it worked immediately
Dec 31 21:39:30 <AmandaC> sdaq: weird,
Dec 31 21:43:34 <funkbox> man it looks like it's broken
Dec 31 21:44:32 <AmandaC> funkbox: what
Dec 31 21:44:34 <AmandaC> s broken?
Dec 31 21:44:53 <funkbox> oh nvm i was not adaptering hte adapter properly
Dec 31 21:52:07 <k0nichiwa> i think for orientation change the device should jsut rebooted, why not take the philosophy of handling config changes to its logical conclusion
Dec 31 21:55:15 <p_l> umm... it's not the logical conclusion. It's ignoring all the separation points
Dec 31 21:56:05 <k0nichiwa> there could be all kinds of kernel level resources that need to be swapped, are u stoopid
Dec 31 21:56:19 <k0nichiwa> how is the kernel going to plug in all those resources w/o restarting
Dec 31 21:56:25 <AmandaC> ...
Dec 31 21:56:32 <p_l> k0nichiwa: well, there are none
Dec 31 21:56:50 <p_l> (srsly, I looked)
Dec 31 21:57:02 <AmandaC> the kernel has handled screen orientation changes for YEARS
Dec 31 21:57:13 <funkbox> my phone rotates when i rotate it
Dec 31 21:57:15 <AmandaC> like, even before Android
Dec 31 21:57:18 <funkbox> i can even spin it
Dec 31 21:57:23 <funkbox> weeee
Dec 31 21:58:00 <deebo> hmm where do you change sync settings for google accounts in JB? its trying to sync "browser" (dont have chrome installed)
Dec 31 21:58:06 <deebo> cant find where to turn it off
Dec 31 21:58:15 <deebo> also, reader sync is off, cant find where to turn on
Dec 31 21:58:46 <p_l> deebo: settings -> google account (for reader sync and browser sync)
Dec 31 21:59:03 <p_l> general auto-sync is on the data usage menu
Dec 31 21:59:18 <deebo> p_l: yeah, settings -> accounts -> google, it lists what its syncing, but can't toggle anything on/off
Dec 31 21:59:30 <p_l> let me see
Dec 31 21:59:37 <luyang> Is auto-sync and Google Cloud Messaging at all related??
Dec 31 21:59:45 <luyang> I mean does the former affect the latter?
Dec 31 21:59:49 <luyang> enable/disable
Dec 31 22:00:10 <deebo> actually the google account list says for my account "sync is off", cant turn it on anywhere...
Dec 31 22:00:26 <p_l> deebo: when you click on the google account in the accounts section, at the top you should get a list of all accounts
Dec 31 22:00:34 <luyang> right sync is for accounts
Dec 31 22:00:35 <p_l> with the sync status icon
Dec 31 22:00:57 <deebo> p_l: yup, it says "sync is off", when i click it, it just says for "browser": "sync is experiencing problems"
Dec 31 22:01:03 <p_l> deebo: when you click it, you should get a list of all sync features with checkboxes
Dec 31 22:01:09 <deebo> i have to manually refresh gmail etc, its annoying
Dec 31 22:01:13 <p_l> as for general sync... let me see
Dec 31 22:01:14 <deebo> p_l: yeah, no checkboxes here
Dec 31 22:02:02 <p_l> settings -> data usage -> <hit menu> -> Auto-sync data should be ON, and restrict background data should be off
Dec 31 22:02:10 <p_l> mind you, that's for AOSP stock from google
Dec 31 22:02:34 <deebo> yeah this is a gnexus
Dec 31 22:03:14 <p_l> well, I'm saying how it goes from 4.2.1 on n4
Dec 31 22:06:09 <deebo> ah.... if you switch sync off from the settings widget, you can't turn on sync from anywhere in the settings
Dec 31 22:06:13 <deebo> thats quite a quirk
Dec 31 22:06:26 <p_l> interesting
Dec 31 22:06:43 <p_l> I don't use any sync widget, and the notification widget doesn't have sync option
Dec 31 22:06:45 <deebo> i toggled sync from the widget and the checkboxes appeared
Dec 31 22:16:50 <AmandaC> I don't suppose I get lucky and Android can read .gifs natively?
Dec 31 22:17:23 <AmandaC> I don't care if it's not animated, I just want to know if it can read them
Dec 31 22:19:20 <p_l> I think it can read them
Dec 31 22:25:25 <capella> use the MOVIE class
Dec 31 22:26:44 <capella> fwiw http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7373718/info-about-the-movie-class-for-android/13548690#13548690
Dec 31 22:27:37 <capella> And I think I figured out later the minSdk is not required
Dec 31 22:38:05 <RustyShackleford> I am fetching an xml file like so: http://pastebin.com/GC3DEbBu
Dec 31 22:38:18 <RustyShackleford> is it safe to pass that InputStream to XmlPullParser?
Dec 31 22:38:37 <RustyShackleford> or should I first read the stream and save it?
Dec 31 22:38:56 <AmandaC> Should be safe
Dec 31 22:39:29 <RustyShackleford> so after I get the InputStream, has the entire request be retrieved?
Dec 31 22:39:42 <RustyShackleford> or does data get transfered only as I read the stream?
Dec 31 23:00:08 <Anoia> when using Url.openConnection, do I need to do anythign special for an HTTPS site that has a normal working and trusted certificate?
Dec 31 23:01:03 <Anoia> I see various reports implying that it should "just work" and then others that say when it's not trusted or self signed, you need to set up a private key store yourself
Dec 31 23:01:36 <k0nichiwa> what is that demo that has all the standard controls in it, eclipse project, has list view, dialogs, etc ?
Dec 31 23:01:42 <Anoia> I;m currently getting an SSL exception (I'll ahve the exception name in a moment
Dec 31 23:01:52 <k0nichiwa> where do i find it ... anyone know the google search term i need ?
Dec 31 23:02:08 <Anoia> it's part of the android SDK/tools installed
Dec 31 23:02:39 <monsti> Anoia: i had a nogo with a selfsigned certificate
Dec 31 23:02:57 <Anoia> monsti: it's not self signed
Dec 31 23:02:59 <k0nichiwa> i think this is it http://developer.android.com/tools/samples/index.html
Dec 31 23:03:18 <Anoia> it's a perfectly normal certificate that is accepted and loaded fien by the browser
Dec 31 23:03:26 <Anoia> k0nichiwa: C:\Program Files\Android\android-sdk\samples\android-8\ApiDemos
Dec 31 23:03:34 <deepy> Anoia: what's the exception name?
Dec 31 23:03:37 <Anoia> wherever your local equivalent is
Dec 31 23:03:45 <Anoia> deepy: still tryign to get it
Dec 31 23:03:49 <monsti> Anoia: it worked fine with a payed certificate
Dec 31 23:03:50 <deepy> Because we're doing blind guessing at the moment
Dec 31 23:04:26 <Anoia> java.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException
Dec 31 23:04:39 <Anoia> the site is https://www.onlinescoutmanager.co.uk
Dec 31 23:05:33 <Anoia> my local web browser shows the same valid cert details as my phone' browser
Dec 31 23:05:50 <monsti> Anoia: there is a default pitfa
Dec 31 23:05:52 <monsti> l
Dec 31 23:05:53 <Anoia> so you;re syaing that any valid certificate should "just work"?
Dec 31 23:06:10 <monsti> check the clocks on your PC and on your phone
Dec 31 23:06:18 <Anoia> both valid
Dec 31 23:06:24 <Anoia> and correct
Dec 31 23:06:28 <monsti> ok then it should work
Dec 31 23:06:29 <deepy> could it be the root CA not trusted by the app?
Dec 31 23:06:39 <deepy> And doesn't the browsers nowadays keep their own store of trusted certs?
Dec 31 23:06:44 <Anoia> it expires next year (2013) sometime
Dec 31 23:07:05 <Anoia> I dont; explicitly trust any in my app, I'm tryign to find that out :)
Dec 31 23:07:17 <Anoia> (re a seperate store)
Dec 31 23:07:26 <opticron> does anyone know of a way to supress the IME keyboard (using my own) while still having the cursor on an edittext in ICS/JB?  all the methods that I've found remove the cursor along with the IME keyboard
Dec 31 23:07:36 <Anoia> the root is globalsign
Dec 31 23:08:18 <Anoia> do I need to set up my own ssl socket factory with the site's certificate in?
Dec 31 23:08:37 <opticron> in GB and earlier, all you had to do was set the input type to null and everything was hunky dory
Dec 31 23:14:57 <Anoia> interestingly, I get a FileNotFoundException when I change the server to google.co.uk...
Dec 31 23:29:59 <Anoia> so, can anyone confirm that I need to add my own key store to talk to an https site?
Dec 31 23:30:09 <Anoia> and that I can;t use the one vbuilt into the OS?
Dec 31 23:47:18 <p_l> happy new year guys
Dec 31 23:48:54 <JakeWharton> I'm getting an exit code of 11 when calling a binary in /system/bin. The binary has chmod 755 so I should be able to invoke it from my application, correct? I can run it from adb shell fine.
Dec 31 23:49:02 <AmandaC> Anoia: you might hjave better luck posting it on SO during the day, when a DevRel googler can spot it
Dec 31 23:49:08 <JakeWharton> 11 doesn't appear in the cpp anywhere as a return code
Dec 31 23:49:28 <JakeWharton> anyone happen to know if this is a standard code or something?
Dec 31 23:49:48 <AmandaC> JakeWharton: I think all the standard exit codes are >128
Dec 31 23:50:21 <JakeWharton> yeah that's what I thought as well. I see 'return 1' all over the place in the code but no 11s
Dec 31 23:51:11 <JakeWharton> going to try p.exitValue() instead of the result of p.waitFor() for kicks
Dec 31 23:52:01 <JakeWharton> same thing. I'm also getting no data on the output or error streams
Dec 31 23:52:28 <JakeWharton> i'm checking .exists() and .canExecute() on the binary as well in code for sanity, both of which return true
Dec 31 23:54:28 <k0nichiwa> what is the purpose of getItem in the list view adapter ?
Dec 31 23:54:37 <k0nichiwa> why does the listview care what object you use to represent a row ?
Dec 31 23:55:58 <Anoia> AmandaC: I'm trying to add the certificate manually and will post something while avoiding all the seemignly unrelated but unclear duplicates :)
Dec 31 23:56:28 <JakeWharton> k0nichiwa: getSelectedItem calls through to it
Dec 31 23:56:44 <JakeWharton> as does getItemAtPosition
Dec 31 23:59:01 <k0nichiwa> in eclipse when you create a new layout it puts a simulated status bar etc on top of it, is there a way to get rid of this ?
Dec 31 23:59:13 <k0nichiwa> my current layout is for a listview row, not for an activity
Dec 31 23:59:46 <JakeWharton> change the theme to .NoTitleBar?
Jan 01 00:00:55 <k0nichiwa> you've never used the graphicla layout editor to edit a non-activyt xml ? i would think that woudl be fairly common
Jan 01 00:02:04 <k0nichiwa> ah, black no title bar fullscreen
Jan 01 00:02:50 <nicole24> need help... i have store some data in db and now want to show it in other activity(screen) of app.... dont know how to do that :S
Jan 01 00:02:51 <JakeWharton> never used the graphical layout editor
Jan 01 00:04:07 * monsti think nicole has face breasts
Jan 01 00:04:18 * AmandaC stares at monsti 
Jan 01 00:04:22 <monsti> s/face/fake ;)
Jan 01 00:04:32 <AmandaC> That's not anyt better?
Jan 01 00:04:41 <monsti> a dude asked the same question 2 hours ago
Jan 01 00:06:20 <nicole24> i was here about 10 hrs ago... and i am not dude :)
Jan 01 00:06:33 <nicole24> just copy answer then :D
Jan 01 00:07:27 <AmandaC> You mean two seperate people can have the same problem!? NO WAI!
Jan 01 00:07:44 <nicole24> impossible !!!
Jan 01 00:07:50 <nicole24> ;)
Jan 01 00:09:46 <AmandaC> besides, you don't need silicon to get breasts if you're born with a penis. :P
Jan 01 00:10:51 <monsti> have a look at the SDK sample called "Wictionary"
Jan 01 00:13:05 <nicole24> okay thx
Jan 01 00:13:35 <AmandaC> have those been updated at all lately?
Jan 01 00:13:41 <monsti> its Wiktionary sry
Jan 01 00:14:20 <monsti> duno - the sql api didn't change that much
Jan 01 00:19:23 <Chronax> Hey gang. What would cause the attributes in the xmlns:map="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res-auto" namespace to be unavailable? The new Google Services lib is in my build path, and I can see SupportMapFragment, but when I try to reference map:cameraBearing (or any of those attributes) they're not found. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
Jan 01 00:21:22 <pierpark> Is it normal that on AdMob, that each click is only worth $0.06 - $0.10 ?
Jan 01 00:21:43 <Jug6ernaut> yup
Jan 01 00:21:47 <pierpark> k
Jan 01 00:21:59 <pierpark> just making sure I hadn't missed something important in setting it all up
Jan 01 00:22:18 <Jug6ernaut> lol
Jan 01 00:22:22 <Jug6ernaut> nope
Jan 01 00:22:27 <Jug6ernaut> admob = disappointing lol
Jan 01 00:22:51 <k0nichiwa> how muchw ould you expected to be paid when a user clicks on a link
Jan 01 00:23:33 <pierpark> no joke. Oh hell I don't know... figured if it were even half that of AdSense it'd be better.
Jan 01 00:23:38 <k0nichiwa> usually people touch ad links by accident, not because they're actually interested
Jan 01 00:23:47 <pierpark> Ah. Makes sense.
Jan 01 00:24:07 <k0nichiwa> thats why u place the ads close to where the user touches regular controls .. trick'm
Jan 01 00:24:51 <pierpark> haha. I don't want to get shut down
Jan 01 00:25:02 <k0nichiwa> that's just standard practice
Jan 01 00:25:13 <k0nichiwa> altho ive never written an ad-app myself
Jan 01 00:25:31 <pierpark> but damn if I haven't seen some really shady shit in some of these apps.. thinking jesus.. how are they still not shut down
Jan 01 00:26:54 <pierpark> any ideas on how to get my apps boosted in the listings? I've got a few apps that are better than the ones holding the top spots and if I could even get close to those I'd be reallll happy
Jan 01 00:27:26 <pierpark> * or how that process works as far as moving up in the list
Jan 01 00:28:04 <Anoia> argh ffs
Jan 01 00:28:10 <Anoia> and happy new year to GMT+*
Jan 01 00:28:31 <Anoia> java.io.IOException: Wrong version of key store. :(
Jan 01 00:28:34 <Ologn> pierpark, 0.06-0.10 a click has been my experience for the past 45 days or so
Jan 01 00:30:23 <Ologn> pierpark, "top spots" in what respect?
Jan 01 00:30:31 <pierpark> yeah, happy new year to GMT.
Jan 01 00:31:54 <pierpark> Ologn, this guy has the top returned result for a search term.... he has about a dozen of the same style of app published and they are all so bland, ugly, basic... mine are more functional, have more of the same content, and look better. :)
Jan 01 00:32:24 <pierpark> his apps get 500K+ downloads a month. mine get like... 20 downloads a day, if even.
Jan 01 00:33:24 <Jug6ernaut> lol
Jan 01 00:33:53 <pierpark> yeah it's discouraging when you put out a decent app and only get 20 a day and only 60% keep it
Jan 01 00:33:54 <pierpark> lol
Jan 01 00:34:05 <pierpark> or 7 in a week
Jan 01 00:34:10 <Jug6ernaut> lol
Jan 01 00:34:16 <pierpark> FREE apps, mind you
Jan 01 00:34:19 <pierpark> :p
Jan 01 00:34:45 <Jug6ernaut> well i get like a 1 star about every other day xD, and yet i get ~5 sales
Jan 01 00:34:54 <Jug6ernaut> so ppl ether really like it or really hate xD
Jan 01 00:35:41 <Ologn> pierpark, don't focus on just one search term.  One of my apps is #10 for math games, which I am happy with.  It is #8 for 5th grade math, which is higher up, but probably searched for less.
Jan 01 00:35:45 <Jessykinz> Can you PM me your app names? I'd love to check them out
Jan 01 00:36:04 <pierpark> oh no doubt... I got about rated 1 star about 4 damn times, and 5 stars 4 times... people dont read the desc. on one of the apps and they jump to leaving a crap rating.. psh
Jan 01 00:38:01 <pierpark> I'm trying to retrofit one of the apps and do an update tonight, and going to pull the other until I get a few bugs taken care of.
Jan 01 00:38:01 <Zzeiss> re:ad apps next to where you normally have to hit: yeah, it's effing annoying and probably one of the biggest reasons why people root their phones, so they can go surgical on the ad access.
Jan 01 00:38:47 <Zzeiss> (the ad can't be called if you block internet access to the ad server.  :) )
Jan 01 00:38:48 <Anoia> especially trojan ads
Jan 01 00:38:59 <Anoia> that look liek the action bar of facebook/twitter, etc
Jan 01 00:39:36 <Anoia> Id have thought the ad code would call back to say they've failed to load and exit in that case
Jan 01 00:41:06 <pierpark> Anoia: Hm. That's true that you could actually unload your app if you detected someone trying to perform that surgery.
Jan 01 00:42:50 <svearike> hm, anyone knows if I need any special uses-permissions other than read_contacts for fetching the contact photos?
Jan 01 00:43:34 <svearike> 01-01 01:43:17.917: W/System.err(10001): java.io.FileNotFoundException: content://com.android.contacts/contacts/235/photo
Jan 01 00:43:56 <svearike> I get alot of these for some reason. A couple of contacts seems to work (those created through skype)
Jan 01 00:44:15 <svearike> I get that uri from the "photo_uri" column
Jan 01 00:45:27 <Zzeiss> The idea I had (unimplemented) is that the app doesn't get forceclosed when it accesses the internet.  It just gets a "network unavailable".
Jan 01 00:45:45 <Zzeiss> Or maybe a "no such host" - fake a DNS error.
Jan 01 00:46:02 <etcetera> how do I create a jar from a project?
Jan 01 00:46:06 <etcetera> library project*
Jan 01 00:46:28 <Zzeiss> All it takes for *that* is to add the proper entries to the /etc/hosts file
Jan 01 00:47:15 <Zzeiss> All it takes for *that* is to add the proper entries to the /etc/hosts file
Jan 01 00:47:25 <Zzeiss> huh?  Howditdothat?
Jan 01 00:51:16 <cstextiles> Should we use blob or save file instead?
Jan 01 01:01:00 <Zzeiss> Tested it.  it works.  (specifically, blocking admob.com by routing it to 127.0.0.1)
Jan 01 01:01:53 <AmandaC> Yay for one-liners to generate code! for i in src/main/res/drawable-nodpi/weather_*; echo 'else if(name.equals("'`basename $i | sed s/weather_// | sed s/.png//`'")) { id = R.drawable.'`basename $i | sed s/.png//`'; }'
Jan 01 01:21:23 <Anoia> has oneone had to create a bks format keystore on windows?
Jan 01 01:24:17 <Anoia> why can this not be bloody simple
Jan 01 01:46:29 <lighthazard> java.io.FileNotFoundException: /mnt/sdcard/.chirpd/a09d9dc5-5b13-4aa9-a0d3-4f0dcb3f52f9-1357001600986.wav
Jan 01 01:46:30 <lighthazard>  - the file does exist though
Jan 01 01:54:14 <lighthazard> Is there a max-file size that I should be aware of?
Jan 01 02:06:25 <PDun> Anyone else having issues with the google code servers?
Jan 01 02:26:04 <lighthazard> I'm trying to play a mediaplayer audio track "/mnt/sdcard/.chirpd/data.wav" and am having toruble with it - any ideas why it cannot be played through setDataSource(filename) ?
Jan 01 02:27:14 <lighthazard> ah setDataSource(FileDescriptor fd)
Jan 01 02:30:20 <damccull> how can I store the type of an object in a variable like a string or something and then reinstantiate a new object based off of that type?
Jan 01 02:33:42 <edwardthefma> hello all
Jan 01 02:34:56 <lighthazard> damccull: That seems like a Java question... just add a type in the object and then Object.type == whatever
Jan 01 02:35:04 <lighthazard> and call the constructor on it
Jan 01 02:36:01 <damccull> lighthazard, I know I could store it as a string in the variable, but how do I load the class later from the string? :)
Jan 01 02:36:38 <lighthazard> import package.class.variable if the object has a public TYPE variable
Jan 01 02:43:44 <leslie> wouldn't Class.forName be what you're looking for, damccull ?
Jan 01 02:44:05 <damccull> leslie i'll look
Jan 01 02:51:46 <leslie> depending on what you're doing, you can actually just store the class in a Class<T> instance variable, damccull
Jan 01 02:52:41 <damccull> leslie, I am trying to implement parcelable on an abstract class so it'll instantiate the childclass that calls the method when unparceled. So i need to store the class type somehow then use that class type to instantiate a new one of it
Jan 01 02:53:26 <damccull> clsas.forname might work
Jan 01 02:53:28 <damccull> if i can learn to type
Jan 01 02:53:39 <leslie> I understood none of that
Jan 01 02:54:11 <damccull> I have an abstract class which is subclassed by a lot more classes
Jan 01 02:54:17 <leslie> right
Jan 01 02:54:27 <damccull> i need those to all be parcelable, but i don't want to put the code into each one of them, because there's a LOT of them
Jan 01 02:54:35 <damccull> so I want to put it on the abstract class
Jan 01 02:54:36 <damccull> but
Jan 01 02:54:59 <damccull> the Parcelable.Creator must instantiate a class. It can't instantiate an abstract class.
Jan 01 02:55:07 <damccull> So I need to have it instantiate the appropriate subclass instead
Jan 01 02:55:21 <damccull> which is why I need to store the current subclass when it gets parceled
Jan 01 02:55:24 <JesusFreke> damccull: you can use reflection to get a constructor and create an object of that type
Jan 01 02:55:27 <leslie> ah, I see. well you can create instances of classes using reflection.
Jan 01 02:55:44 <damccull> JesusFreke, I think that's what I'm doing with class.forName right?
Jan 01 02:55:53 <JesusFreke> damccull: not quite
Jan 01 02:55:56 <leslie> half right, damccull
Jan 01 02:56:08 <damccull> JesusFreke, leslie can you point me in the direction i need for reflection?
Jan 01 02:56:09 <JesusFreke> class.forName() just gives you an instance of Class representing the type
Jan 01 02:56:42 <damccull> I see.
Jan 01 02:56:50 <leslie> Class.newInstance(). or if you need a specific constructor, then you'd need something else
Jan 01 02:56:56 <JesusFreke> damccull: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#getConstructor(java.lang.Class...)
Jan 01 02:57:13 <JesusFreke> If you need a parameterized constructor
Jan 01 02:57:31 <damccull> I do. It needs to accept a parcel
Jan 01 02:57:32 <JesusFreke> or just use newInstance like leslie said, if there is a default constructor that you can use
Jan 01 02:58:04 <damccull> Thanks. Lemme look and try this all out
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 01 02:59:57 2013