**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 17 02:59:59 2013 Mar 17 03:28:17 is possible to use in API 10 the calendar API 11? :S Mar 17 03:50:12 no Mar 17 04:03:21 What is the best way to manage 2 apps that pretty much have the exact same code, but with different UI images and different package names ? Mar 17 04:07:46 mobydev: with build scripts? Mar 17 04:08:40 I will take a look at that. Thanks nap Mar 17 04:09:30 .me afk Mar 17 04:09:32 * mobydev afk Mar 17 04:14:52 I'm trying to get an Android device that is connected via WiFi to receive a UDP packet from a PC that is also on the same network. The PC has no problem sending a packet to another PC, but the Android device never seems to receive it. Mar 17 04:15:09 However, the Android device has no difficulties broadcasting UDP packets of its own. Mar 17 04:57:56 I am looking at the TrivialDrive example. Is there a way to query what sku's are available (registered on developer console) ? A kind of requestCurrentSkuList ? Mar 17 04:58:27 I know you can request info on one or more skuItems if you know the sku Mar 17 04:58:43 but what if you just want a list of what is available ? Mar 17 05:22:12 this looks like it could be pretty fun http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920021094.do Mar 17 05:58:45 Wtf... everything is added in api level 11 Mar 17 06:01:26 Should I just use api level 11? Mar 17 06:01:37 I can do the things I want in api level 1 it will just take more code Mar 17 06:02:37 if you aren't going to support Gingerbread, then you might as well just use API 14 or 15 (both ICS). there are very few devices still left on Honeycomb (11-13) Mar 17 06:03:21 Ill probably loose %25 if i go with 11 Mar 17 06:03:28 or 14 Mar 17 06:03:38 is this an existing app or a new app? Mar 17 06:03:52 new... well It has been in the play store for around two weeks now Mar 17 06:04:20 i'd recommend going with 14+ Mar 17 06:04:26 My previous one has 1000 on gingerbread.... So I don't know if I will loose possible downloads by upping the api Mar 17 06:04:49 hi guys, i'm reading the sample code of ...android.apis.ApiDemos, at file RotationVectorDemo.java , I'm confused with this http://codepad.org/myXPg4L0, could someone explain that for me? Mar 17 06:04:52 kevinb: Do you know how it says that %XX have 2.3.3 or whatever... are those all %100 active? Mar 17 06:05:42 agy2154: i don't know what exactly the dashboard means. i suspect it just means they connected to the Google/Play services, not that the user actually opened the Play Store and browsed or installed a new app Mar 17 06:08:49 zhangxaochen: i suspect the size is just wrong and it should be a new float[9] rather than 16. Android uses some 3x3 matrices and some 4x4. Mar 17 06:09:33 kevinb: The only three things I would probably use in a higher api level are the setRotation, setX, setY, the action bar and TextIsSelectable which I can solve with a relativelayout.layoutparams, an animation, and action bar sherlock... do you think its worth it in this case? also what API level do you usually develop for? Mar 17 06:11:07 kevinb, you mean the demo is wrong? Mar 17 06:15:09 agy2154: my apps are personalization apps popular with power users and people on custom roms, so my audience is probably a bit different than yours. One of my apps is 14+ and it's awesome to not need to worry about Android 2.x. I also heavily use hardware acceleration, the new animation framework and the View.set* and reusing bitmaps. My other app is a bit older so I first released it when 2.1 was king and 2.2 was just getting started, so it's current 2.1+ Mar 17 06:15:09 really want to move to API 14+ but I'm not ready for the user backlash yet. the next update is going to 10+ though. Mar 17 06:16:09 kevinb: is there any wayto use the meathods from the newer apis? Mar 17 06:17:36 agy2154: another advantage of 14+ is it limits the testing scope. In my case vendor skins can and do cause compatibility or usability concerns. If I would've tried to support Android 2.x I could not have built as good of a product and it would've hurt reviews which I believe would've hurt more long term than initially having a small target audience did. Mar 17 06:18:03 zhangxaochen: I don't know enough about the demo, but i agree that the offsets they are using for the identity matrix are not correct for a 4x4 matrix. they are however correct for a 3x3 matrix Mar 17 06:18:47 kevinb: Ahh yes... My audience is people who are in the educational apps. Mar 17 06:18:54 agy2154: there is the support lib which helps and JakeWharton has an awesome backport of the animation lib called NineOldAndroids, but it does behave a bit different in some ways Mar 17 06:20:53 kevinb: ahh thats why you need at least api 4 to run jake's software? Mar 17 06:21:48 ? API 4 is super old and should not be a concern at all Mar 17 06:22:24 kevinb: ohh because he said you have to have at least api 4 to run ABS Mar 17 06:23:33 kevinb: how long do you think it will be until 2.3 will be almost fased out Mar 17 06:24:53 it's really hard to say. There's a lot of devices that won't see a 4.x update and will still be used for a while. Though those users are probably not heavy app users. Mar 17 06:25:59 and you don't want to either limit the app or invest too much time developing work arounds or bug fixes for legacy versions rather than investing that time in making the app better for the future Mar 17 06:27:50 kevinb: yeah thanks for the advice I will definatly up my Api level Mar 17 06:41:16 batps Mar 17 06:41:19 batos Mar 17 06:42:20 YOOOOOU BELONG TO MEE...... YOU BELONG... YOU BELONG TO ME... YOU BELONG TO MEEEEEE Mar 17 06:44:22 lonely ron_frown :P ? Mar 17 06:44:33 a trance song Mar 17 06:44:41 ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm Mar 17 06:44:50 I dont need human interaction Mar 17 06:44:53 * ron_frown shrugs Mar 17 06:47:02 odd ... usually when someone sings out loud in the dev room they're looking for interaction ... or reaaaaally boreds Mar 17 06:48:49 I'm werkin Mar 17 06:48:58 and even tho I dont like trance that much... its fantastic for coding Mar 17 06:49:09 heh ... Mar 17 06:49:30 2hr blocks of music is the great part Mar 17 06:49:39 no worries about playlists bringing up dupes Mar 17 06:49:50 and probably 250 mp3s of the 2hr blocks Mar 17 06:49:52 soooo Mar 17 06:50:04 I put on TCM ... old Bogart movies .... 2hours no commercials Mar 17 06:50:11 I cant tand taht shit Mar 17 06:50:18 and I have one tv, and its not in my office Mar 17 06:51:01 well ... bogart not imporrtant ... 2 hour movies no commercials is the critical path to coding nirvanha Mar 17 06:52:34 whers g00s tonight Mar 17 06:52:45 taking the night off is unacceptable Mar 17 06:55:07 vmware quit being a little slut Mar 17 06:55:29 yah he's usually much more chatty Mar 17 06:56:37 * capella doesnt kknow about slutty vmware ... but mine decided to upgrade itself today Mar 17 06:56:44 same ehre Mar 17 06:56:56 says is downloading... havent seen progress bar progress at all Mar 17 06:56:59 60meg interent Mar 17 06:57:01 go figure Mar 17 06:57:07 I cant ping my guest os Mar 17 06:57:24 THEREE we go Mar 17 06:57:27 now if i can figure out how to disable the keyboard |suspend| key... Mar 17 06:57:36 keyboard suspend key? Mar 17 06:57:53 like CTRL-Z or soemthing I hit by accident Mar 17 06:58:56 while trying to UNDO intext edtor Mar 17 06:59:22 could anyone help me? I just started developing an app today and I set everything up (using eclipse) on my laptop, and my workspace is inside dropbox, then when I opened it up again on my desktop I didn't have the template editor you can use in eclipse to drag and drop things into the app. Mar 17 06:59:30 Does anyone know how to set that up by itself? Mar 17 07:00:19 uhh Mar 17 07:00:29 you have adt installed in eclipse on the desktop? Mar 17 07:00:43 eclipse is TERRRRRIBLE at sharing "projects" Mar 17 07:00:44 yeah, I can launch it and everything I just dont know how to open the editor that goes along with the xml file Mar 17 07:00:48 yeah it really is =( Mar 17 07:00:56 intellij is free and much better Mar 17 07:01:02 you can create a project file and be done with it Mar 17 07:01:19 is it actually better at sharing? because I've heard its faster, but essentiallt the same stuff as eclipse Mar 17 07:01:25 intelliJ++ Mar 17 07:01:35 it has a concept of a project file Mar 17 07:01:45 that says heres all the modules necessary to build relative pathed Mar 17 07:01:56 so yes Mar 17 07:01:59 it shares much better Mar 17 07:02:02 you can actually go Mar 17 07:02:09 file open project, point at the ipr Mar 17 07:02:10 done. Mar 17 07:02:24 alright thanks, ill probably try that - eclipse has been slow recently anyways Mar 17 07:02:37 "recently" heh Mar 17 07:02:59 =P Mar 17 07:03:53 its not magically going to fix everything... but I guarentee it'll be less stress =) Mar 17 07:04:39 yeah and if worse comes to worse I can set it up properly on both machines THEN share the files, but thats a huge hassle Mar 17 07:15:59 *sigh* another seemlingly easy task. I have a unix timestamp, in seconds, in UTC. I want to display the time in the user's timezone. Mar 17 07:16:32 so far I set date from the timestamp, then a calendar from the date, then the calendar into a SimpleDateFormat, and this then goes into a string. But... that seems not to work. Mar 17 07:16:35 any suggestions? Mar 17 07:16:54 (i.e. it does not end up in the user's time zone) Mar 17 07:18:48 How come I updated my Min API and I can't use the meathods from it? Mar 17 07:18:56 I cleaned my project too... Mar 17 07:19:08 tinloaf: maybe http://developer.android.com/reference/java/util/Calendar.html#getInstance(java.util.TimeZone) ? Mar 17 07:20:25 clever: that's what I've been trying.. still shows up as UTC :-/ Mar 17 07:20:48 tinloaf: what if you pass a UTC zone into getInstance? Mar 17 07:20:58 clever: let me try that. Mar 17 07:24:16 clever: http://pastebin.com/bvxzpr6e Mar 17 07:24:25 it does not matter at all which timezone i select :( Mar 17 07:24:48 i tried "Europe/Berlin", "America/New_York" and "Etc/UTC" Mar 17 07:24:57 they all show the current time as 06:20 Mar 17 07:26:13 http://developer.android.com/reference/java/util/TimeZone.html#getDefault() Mar 17 07:26:17 including the default zone? Mar 17 07:26:38 clever: yes Mar 17 07:26:50 i'm out of ideas then Mar 17 07:26:56 an additional sdf.setTimeZone(TimeZone.getDefault()) also changes *nothing* Mar 17 07:27:21 manualy pull out the .getOffset() of the default timezone and add that to your unix timestamp Mar 17 07:27:30 sorry. Even if I'm doing something wrong - the fact that I can just change the timezones to *anything* without changing the result is just broken Mar 17 07:28:07 i havent done much with java's date stuff yet Mar 17 07:28:22 pragma-: did you use the jjoe64 chart library ? Mar 17 07:29:02 g00s whats up player Mar 17 07:29:11 hey ron_frown :) Mar 17 07:29:19 it's aliiiive ! Mar 17 07:29:31 the other day, somebody said all the android charting libraries needed hw accel turned off Mar 17 07:29:40 hey capella :) Mar 17 07:29:47 >) Mar 17 07:31:33 ron_frown: if you were starting new app now, and wanted to support gingebread people still … would you just try to get one code base working everywhere, or use some branch - per - configuration thing in your version control tool to have different parallel codelines for each very different target ? Mar 17 07:31:59 wth ... suddenly 14 diff job boards start emailing me Mar 17 07:32:10 ah weekends Mar 17 07:33:18 depends on how extravagant you are trying to go with new featurs on 4.2 Mar 17 07:33:35 abs + supportlib can support multiple platforms pretty damn well Mar 17 07:33:48 the app you saw screenshots is a gingerbread+ app Mar 17 07:34:00 I have had stuff that was a pita to get around Mar 17 07:34:03 but not impossible Mar 17 07:34:13 is it possible to invoke javascript function of html being loaded in webview from java activity Mar 17 07:34:56 ron_frown: what did i see screenshots of ? Mar 17 07:35:29 http://imageshack.us/a/img560/2002/overviewm.png Mar 17 07:35:30 and Mar 17 07:35:37 http://imageshack.us/a/img716/7200/drag12.png Mar 17 07:35:59 we use a lot of fragment view pagers and shit now too Mar 17 07:36:02 hm Mar 17 07:36:12 still targeting gingerbread Mar 17 07:36:12 they dont even look like android apps :P Mar 17 07:36:19 your apps? Mar 17 07:36:21 btw, this is great http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/map_of_the_week/2013/03/google_reader_joins_graveyard_of_dead_google_products.html Mar 17 07:36:39 i left a few flowers Mar 17 07:38:17 alas poor iGoogle ... we barely used ya Mar 17 07:38:42 I really really liked wave for business collaboration, prototyping, brainstorming etc Mar 17 07:40:30 need one for MS ... Bob, Silverlight ActiveX Mar 17 07:41:37 How come I can't use stuff from the API level I just updated to? Mar 17 07:41:47 heh - Bing Mar 17 07:42:27 i've used Bing a few times recently, i pretty much get the same results Mar 17 07:43:34 actually, search being google's core product - hasn't really improved much at all (it seems to me) in about 10 years Mar 17 07:44:21 and its always fun to get a few people together to search for exactly the same thing, to see all your filter bubbles different Mar 17 07:44:29 I always arrive at what I am looking for in sufficient time Mar 17 07:44:40 I noticed that my google fu is quite nice Mar 17 07:45:23 some things i find really hard to find, like concepts around the programming language 'go' Mar 17 07:45:29 often result in bs Mar 17 07:45:51 thats because they named their language something completely retarded Mar 17 07:46:10 but i think a few months ago norvig or someone at google finally changed their mind and decided to use semantic web in their search Mar 17 07:46:37 not sure if thats available for use, or maybe its in a 'lab' you can try Mar 17 07:47:25 ron_frown: what are you up to this evening ? Mar 17 07:47:45 working on one of my business ideas Mar 17 07:47:59 and you capella ? Mar 17 07:48:17 an app a friend and I talked about building for sometime just got some seriously relevant interest Mar 17 07:48:39 oh great Mar 17 07:48:46 helping students on mozilla channels Mar 17 07:49:19 capella: aww, padawans ! Mar 17 07:49:24 I've got two appointments next week to discuss this software with some potentially big players Mar 17 07:49:30 :D Mar 17 07:49:38 ron_frown: they'll ask : where is the iOS version :) Mar 17 07:49:52 not android app Mar 17 07:50:02 this is enterprise saas product Mar 17 07:50:08 oh Mar 17 07:51:51 hope discussions go well Mar 17 07:55:59 as do I Mar 17 07:56:02 at least if nothing else Mar 17 07:56:09 its motivating me to get my ass in gear and get something done Mar 17 07:56:38 stuff I've done for my current employer is impressive at least I think so, but everything else there is kind of a pile Mar 17 07:56:47 I figure if tey can make money off their bad software Mar 17 07:56:51 I can make money off good software Mar 17 07:57:17 cover the big issues up front and shouldnt have any growing pains Mar 17 07:58:55 can I still use a deprecated class with the latest version of android? Mar 17 07:59:41 agy2154: which class Mar 17 07:59:49 ClipboardManager Mar 17 08:00:08 oh, i dunno anything about that one Mar 17 08:00:28 g00s: its alright. Thanks anyways... Ill just change it to the newer one Mar 17 08:00:31 man I feel like going and getting some ice cream sandwiches from the store Mar 17 08:00:50 ron_frown: androids ? :) Mar 17 08:01:15 no literally ice cream sandwiches Mar 17 08:05:13 want some desert but got nothing at the house =( Mar 17 08:06:05 no companies over there that can deliver an ICS from a drone yet ? Mar 17 08:13:57 ron_frown: what version control system do you use for personal stuff ? Mar 17 08:15:30 * monsti uses svn Mar 17 08:15:34 i hate git Mar 17 08:17:35 the git cli is so freaking inconsistent; 'git branch' lists branches, but 'git stash list' lists stashes Mar 17 08:18:05 the windows guis anren't that comfortable then svn Mar 17 08:19:58 haha Mar 17 08:50:10 g00s its not just the cli :D Mar 17 08:51:08 Chainfire: :) what do you use ? Mar 17 08:51:23 I switched from svn to git (mostly) a few months ago Mar 17 08:51:28 but it regularly gives me a headache Mar 17 08:51:43 EGit constantly breaking down and crapping out doesn't help either Mar 17 08:52:02 every branch/switch/commit/etc I pray it will succeed without error Mar 17 08:52:26 i've had a few false starts. After reading eBook "Pro Git" i was like, "this is easy!" < … insert banging / noises … > < KABOOM > Mar 17 08:52:42 the book oversimplified a lot, and i blew my foot off a few times Mar 17 08:53:03 now i am reading the Oreilly Git book - its *much* better. but yeah, you have to go into the weeds a bit to know the object model Mar 17 08:53:06 isn't the accepted tome "The Git Book" Mar 17 08:53:35 oh that is "Pro Git", now I look itup Mar 17 08:53:53 yeah, its … warm & fuzzy but simplistic Mar 17 08:54:12 i read through the whole thing Mar 17 08:54:31 it might even be a bit out of date now Mar 17 08:54:39 I've had some major fuckups (due to EGit errors, not really git itself) that have cost me code Mar 17 08:55:01 I always have the feeling when using git, since I'm no expert, anything may go wrong at any time, and I have no way to deal with it if it does Mar 17 08:55:09 oh yeah, me too … well, i still have my code, but i had to bring my repo to a git expert - and he said "start over" Mar 17 08:55:11 like having your children play in a minefield Mar 17 08:55:19 heh Mar 17 08:55:30 my precious code... nooooooo! Mar 17 08:56:29 i decided i would only use the cli; but something like gitk to visualize history maybe Mar 17 08:57:04 why ? Mar 17 08:57:40 I mean, EGit craps on me regularly (seems to be a Windows-specific issue) but it still safes me a buttload of time compared to using the git cli Mar 17 08:57:53 really? maybe i'll look at it then Mar 17 08:58:44 its Eclipse-git btw, so only ifyou're running Eclipse ;) Mar 17 08:58:48 one gui i'm playing with is Atlassian SourceTree; but just for visualization Mar 17 08:59:03 does anyone know where I can find the old kernel/common.git from android.git.kernel.org? Mar 17 08:59:17 I'm looking for the android 2.6.38 patch Mar 17 09:00:19 the new kernel/common.git on googlesource.com only has 2.6.39 and onwards. Mar 17 09:04:17 Chainfire: for your apps, are you using a single apk to cover all versions of android ? Mar 17 09:04:28 yes Mar 17 09:05:58 i have 1 apk for every API level and every device and every language Mar 17 09:06:05 then i can use AbsoluteLayouts Mar 17 09:06:09 and hard code my strings Mar 17 09:06:25 thats why nobody uses your stuff, JakeWharton. ;) Mar 17 09:06:59 hmm, true :( Mar 17 09:07:19 Chainfire: i was thinking about this http://ekkescorner.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/git-and-mobile-development-branches/ Mar 17 09:07:53 although his situation is more complicated, because he has public / private / and client bits Mar 17 09:08:34 but anyhow ;_ Mar 17 09:08:37 wow Mar 17 09:08:41 that looks painful Mar 17 09:08:55 g00s that looks suspiciously like hard work Mar 17 09:09:04 in other words, it's missing the lazyness factor common to good code Mar 17 09:09:09 :) Mar 17 09:09:29 he probably like gantt charts too Mar 17 09:09:31 I don't get what this has to do with multiple apk / mobile versions either ? Mar 17 09:10:03 (though I must say, I'm on a single-user GIT using mostly linear development, so I rarely run into these situations) Mar 17 09:10:13 oh, for each pub/private/client branch he branches again for each os version. doesn't really go into it much though Mar 17 09:10:32 yeah Mar 17 09:10:37 that sounds like a dumb idea on Android Mar 17 09:11:06 ok, i was wondering if anyone else used that technique to good effect Mar 17 09:11:17 wrap stuff that needs to use different code on different API levels in methods that do all the checking, or instantiate an API-level specific version of an object holding all that crap Mar 17 09:11:57 I don't really add massive functionality to an app if it can't be supported on my lowest API level. If I really want to do something big and new, I raise the API level Mar 17 09:12:14 so there's usually only fairly minor stuff that is API level specific, easily wrapped in a few methods or special instance Mar 17 09:12:42 doing multiple APKs would be a massive pain Mar 17 09:12:59 there would need to be massive economic incentive for me to even consider such a solution Mar 17 09:13:12 (then again, if you're using a proper build system, maybe ...) Mar 17 09:13:15 interesting, thanks Mar 17 09:14:07 i thought it might be easier to have the bowels of my app in one repo; and then maybe the UI for (1) GB and (2) ICS+ as separate repos Mar 17 09:14:19 remember this guy is doing this on BB, and AFAIK, difference between OS versions on BB are massive over a small number of versions, not tiny over a large number of versions like on Androdi Mar 17 09:14:30 ok Mar 17 09:15:41 if you like messing with git... personally I'd just seperate the XML in layout-vBLA, and if the UI is completely different, also create MainActivity_vBLA and maybe have it launched by a selector activity. I've never personally had to seperate my activities into different versions, though Mar 17 09:16:09 wtf are you doing building apps for GB anyway ? Mar 17 09:16:19 you will find that 99% of your paying customers are on ICS+ Mar 17 09:16:34 even if its only 50% of the total Android market Mar 17 09:16:57 ah, right now, i would use minSdk=14 or something. but i have an older app i want to make much nicer, but not ditch the GB folks Mar 17 09:18:13 all right, sounds like i'll keep it together as one code base Mar 17 09:18:19 ah like that. Then maybe separating into two (sub-)GITs is not such a terrible idea. That is, if you have new stuff you want to back-port to GB at all Mar 17 09:18:30 not really Mar 17 09:18:32 cause you could just leave the current version on GB and only build the new improvement into ICS versions Mar 17 09:18:33 heh ;) Mar 17 09:18:55 if you raise the minlevel on the new APK, you can put it in Play like so that the old version stays available for GB users Mar 17 09:19:17 yeah, that sounds good too Mar 17 09:19:32 you'd have to switch the dev console into advanced mode if its still set to simple Mar 17 09:19:46 but it should be possible, just have both APK's "active" Mar 17 09:20:20 (I've never actually done this, but I have considered it several times) Mar 17 09:20:59 but be sure to properly tag your GB version in GIT so you can still fix something there if you really need to ;) Mar 17 09:21:23 Chainfire: about git, are you using [master] for your development work? i was using gitflow (not the scripts) Mar 17 09:21:47 master is only a convention Mar 17 09:21:54 depends on the project Mar 17 09:22:01 it's just a name of a branch Mar 17 09:22:03 the main branch is always called master for me Mar 17 09:22:24 projects that only see tiny code changes between releases ( < 100 lines) I just commit to master usually Mar 17 09:22:26 sure; i guess i should rephrase: eager or lazy branching :) Mar 17 09:22:35 ok Mar 17 09:22:49 more complicated projects have a development branch that gets merged only at release day Mar 17 09:22:57 and sub-branched for each feature / fix implemented Mar 17 09:23:32 but I don't do that unless I have a good reason, because 90% of the time when EGit craps out it's when switching/merging branches, and its hell when it does. Mar 17 09:23:44 hm Mar 17 09:23:50 is the working copy dirty? Mar 17 09:23:51 Ugh, egit Mar 17 09:23:54 (again, only for Windows users) Mar 17 09:24:12 Switching to command line made it so much easier Mar 17 09:24:22 stashing helps a lot Mar 17 09:24:53 well its not so much an EGit issues as it is a generic Eclipse issue, really Mar 17 09:24:57 i just yearned you can apply a stash on any branch, not the one that created it :| Mar 17 09:24:58 does EGit use JGit or a C client? Mar 17 09:25:08 a stash is just a diff Mar 17 09:25:13 you can apply it to anything Mar 17 09:25:19 jgit Mar 17 09:25:20 I've noticed (at least on Windows), that Eclipse tends to keep files open (or maybe the OS does) at the same time its trying to delete them Mar 17 09:25:36 most of the errors I see on Eclipse have to do with that: inability to delete files it still has open Mar 17 09:26:10 heh, nice. Windows explorer in infamous for that anyways Mar 17 09:27:01 making sure to use "refresh" on your project in Eclipse before committing/branching/merging, saying two hail-maries and drawing a pentagram around your office chair usually prevents the problem from occurring Mar 17 09:27:29 i'd probably just close the project :| Mar 17 09:27:32 I'm not comfortable enough with the cli to replace it, though Mar 17 09:27:45 g00s this is Eclipse, closing the project won't close the files Mar 17 09:27:50 strange, the graphical layout is completely different to what is showing on the device... Mar 17 09:27:55 there is no sanity to be found here Mar 17 09:28:19 Chainfire: try intellij yet ? Mar 17 09:28:40 nope, everybody says I should though Mar 17 09:28:44 you should Mar 17 09:29:03 the prevalence of Eclipse and its continued recommendation is a crime against humanity Mar 17 09:29:25 recommondation/bundling in the ADT Mar 17 09:29:30 intelliJ++ Mar 17 09:29:32 *recommendation Mar 17 09:29:37 i need to find an 'intellij for eclipse refugees' blog Mar 17 09:29:52 lol Mar 17 09:29:52 capella|zZzZ: recommends intellij in his sleep :) Mar 17 09:30:09 just switch and figure it out. you'll suck for two weeks but then your productivity will skyrocket Mar 17 09:30:10 Eclipse Mar 17 09:30:13 * capella|zZzZ BAD Mar 17 09:30:21 I used Eclipse before going Android, I remember pulling my hair out back then going "WHyyyyy?!!!?" . I was not amused when I started Android development that it used Eclipse Mar 17 09:30:38 one thing that keeps me from IDEA is the licensing Mar 17 09:30:47 you definitely get Stockholm Syndrome with Eclipse Mar 17 09:30:55 i used to love it and forgive it's annoyances Mar 17 09:31:13 well, i was using the clojure plugin for eclipse - so i would wind up using it in some way regardless Mar 17 09:31:46 I need to get a corporate license apparently, so I can scam the tax-man. But I run Eclipse in like 4 VMs simultaneously on one computer, across Linux, Windows and OS X Mar 17 09:32:09 I'd actually'd have to get 4 licenses, according to the IDEA guys ... Mar 17 09:32:10 Chainfire: the free version won't do? Mar 17 09:32:19 g00s: why couldn't you do closure in IJ? Mar 17 09:32:21 there's a licenced version? Mar 17 09:32:28 oh wait intellij Mar 17 09:33:07 /s/j/ Mar 17 09:33:17 JakeWharton oh I hadn't even really looked. I usually buy whatever I use. Is the free version sufficient for Android development ? Mar 17 09:33:34 It is Mar 17 09:33:46 Yep Mar 17 09:33:48 That's what I use Mar 17 09:34:13 i have to see where la-clojure is these days Mar 17 09:34:59 what does that add to it? Mar 17 09:35:05 You could also stop using ide-specific features Mar 17 09:36:14 this the intended blog ? Mar 17 09:36:15 http://www.canoo.com/blog/2011/10/18/android-and-idea-for-the-eclipse-refugee/ Mar 17 09:36:36 Chainfire: haha, i have to read this Mar 17 09:37:15 * Chainfire admits he actually likes Xcode Mar 17 09:37:21 yeah i do too Mar 17 09:37:34 Chainfire: is dslr controller on iOS also ? Mar 17 09:37:34 I dare you to say so in #iphone-dev Mar 17 09:37:53 ugh Xcode. it's great until it's not Mar 17 09:38:06 i pity people who are forced to work in it Mar 17 09:38:14 (read: iOS developers) Mar 17 09:38:26 Most iOS devs I know switched to AppCode Mar 17 09:38:32 (also from jetbrains) Mar 17 09:38:38 yeah I haven't run into the "until it's not" thing yet Mar 17 09:40:34 it probably requires a significantly large project to have it break down. the small stuff i've done in it has been great Mar 17 09:41:04 yeah my stuff is pretty much just C++ so far, not too much of the ObjC/UI yet Mar 17 09:43:18 i'm trying to get away from all that stuff Mar 17 09:43:35 which stuff ? Mar 17 09:43:44 C/C++/ObjC Mar 17 09:44:13 for the most part, I'd agree Mar 17 09:44:32 but some (core) things I've done, I really regret having done them in Java instead of C++ Mar 17 09:46:28 I think I broke the graphical layout tool Mar 17 09:46:36 ahahahaha Mar 17 09:47:21 Chainfire: i totally got rid of the "single source" idea Mar 17 09:48:22 Chainfire: i prefere a new implementation per plattform Mar 17 09:50:04 I mostly do too, but it depends on what I'm doing Mar 17 10:05:31 ah, stretchcolumns seems to fix it... Mar 17 10:15:34 hi. Can i give an apk signed with the debug certificate to other betatesters or should I start using a "real" certificate in this step already? Mar 17 10:17:08 I wondered that as well... the only problem I saw so far is that the debug certificate is limited to 1 year by default, which is a major hussle if you compile your own apps for normal use Mar 17 10:18:04 stummi: the only real problem ive run into with that, is that android wont let you upgrade if the keys dont match Mar 17 10:18:24 and its worse when you have 2 dev boxes, signing with different debug keys Mar 17 10:18:34 cant install the debug from another box without a complete uninstall Mar 17 10:18:47 okay Mar 17 10:19:25 it also depends on how much you keep in /data/, if a complete uninstall is a big bother Mar 17 10:21:32 you can share debug keys Mar 17 10:21:39 i got in the habit of keeping them in the repo Mar 17 10:22:17 we replaced the debug keys of our devs with one key in their $HOME/.android Mar 17 10:23:27 You could create a debug key that lasts like 5 years and use that Mar 17 10:23:35 Shouldn't be possible to upload that to play store Mar 17 10:23:46 2032 ;) Mar 17 10:24:12 SimonVT: something ive wondered, even if the play store forces you to make the key expire in 10+ years Mar 17 10:24:20 what happens to your app when those 10 years are up? Mar 17 10:24:29 well thats not the point Mar 17 10:24:30 currently, the os doesnt allow upgrades from the 'wrong' key Mar 17 10:24:35 By then Android will either be dead Mar 17 10:24:38 what happens to the batterie of your device in 10 years Mar 17 10:24:41 yeah, different, related question Mar 17 10:24:45 Or they'll let you change keys Mar 17 10:24:49 they'll make a migration strategy Mar 17 10:24:55 what happens to the certificates in your rom? Mar 17 10:25:01 hopefully Android will have died by then Mar 17 10:25:06 lol Mar 17 10:25:20 i had several customers that needed to throw their windows mobile devices to the trash because of certificates Mar 17 10:25:28 set the clock to that time, see what happens... Mar 17 10:25:41 not an option ;) Mar 17 10:26:00 ive seen related problems on the school computers before, due to idiots setting it up Mar 17 10:26:14 all the computers had software to undo unauthorized file changes at shutdown Mar 17 10:26:21 considering the Play store is signed with the system key and has access to internal APIs that silently un/re-install apps... they'll be fine Mar 17 10:26:23 that said, if you set your phone to 2038 Mar 17 10:26:26 btw i am still looking for an easy way to get the diagonal visible radius of a map in meters Mar 17 10:26:29 when DST came arround, windows shifted the clock forward an hour Mar 17 10:26:33 updated the registery Mar 17 10:26:40 thats an unauthorized change, undo at shutdown Mar 17 10:26:43 it may or may not crash due to that time shenanigans Mar 17 10:26:47