**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 04 02:59:59 2013 Oct 04 03:17:11 ok, so if anyone has problems importing library (or any?) projects into AS 0.2.11, use /open/ (click build.gradle) not /import/ Oct 04 03:17:39 phew, feel like a canary flying out of the mine with smoking wings Oct 04 03:43:56 canaries are used to detect carbon monoxide and other non-odorous gases that will silently suffocate people because the canary will suffocate long before a human Oct 04 05:22:08 I made a new project in android studio and got everything set up and added it to github. When I use the "Checkout from VCS" option on my other computer it imports it, but instead of just having the myApp.iml in the root directory and the myApp.iml in the module directory, it adds another iml file called myApp-myApp.iml. Whout would cause it to do this? Oct 04 05:24:08 DroidDev32 no idea; i just use git from the command line Oct 04 05:25:12 since this is all a preview, i think you save yourself hassle by minimizing your 'used-feature' footprint, if you can. command line git is tried and true, works great - AS will reload when you change your workspace Oct 04 05:25:40 Do you know what files should go in the .gitignore? Oct 04 05:25:56 I never trust IDEs to do the right thing with vcs :( Oct 04 05:26:28 but they pretty much all work well when you change things (even switching branches) on command line Oct 04 05:26:31 including xcode :p Oct 04 05:26:51 DroidDev32: I think github has some sensible defaults when you first set up a repo there? Oct 04 05:26:58 if that's what you were doing Oct 04 05:27:28 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8476376/typical-gitignore-file-for-an-android-app Oct 04 05:29:13 here is what iosched used https://code.google.com/p/iosched/source/browse/.gitignore Oct 04 05:29:25 yea hopefully it did. I am still learning though so I am not quit sure. Oct 04 05:29:50 the first link is using Eclipse. I am using the gradle build system Oct 04 05:30:57 ugh, wat … os X 10.9 has some weird single sign on for … linkedIn? dafuq, leave that shit out for f sake Oct 04 05:32:04 so if I use git command line, what option should I use to get my project into android studio? Open or import? Oct 04 05:32:22 that doesn't have anything to do with git Oct 04 05:32:31 if you have an .idea/ and .iml file, then open Oct 04 05:33:22 if not, probably import Oct 04 06:05:12 is there a way i can change a button color in xml without creating a graphics file for the button? Oct 04 06:07:50 i think for the bg you can say @color? Oct 04 06:08:28 yes. or use a shape xml Oct 04 06:10:01 g00s: doesn't that mean i have to create a color.xml file and put something in there? Oct 04 06:10:44 no Oct 04 06:11:17 #aarrggbb Oct 04 06:24:18 hm, if i have a service in a library project, is there any way i can have it access a tag from the parent project using it? basically i would like the client project to specify a class name in the meta-data tag, that the service will use for configuration Oct 04 06:25:40 hm, maybe i just have the entry in the client project Oct 04 06:26:37 and not in the AndroidManifest of the library project? Oct 04 06:28:16 Hello. Does anyone of you know why SurfaceView lags when in a ScrollView? Oct 04 06:31:21 "The library project must declare all its components, e.g. activities, service, etc. via the AndroidManifest.xml file. The application which uses the library must also declare all the used components via the AndroidManifest.xml file. " Oct 04 06:31:49 hm, i thought this worked differently Oct 04 06:32:59 "Automatic merging of library project manifest files into the including project's manifest. Enable with the manifestmerger.enabled property." is this really all the info available on this; ADT 20 preview 3 changenotes? Oct 04 06:34:36 Does anyone have any clue about the SurfaceView lags? Oct 04 06:38:57 sogard romain might know, but he's pretty busy Oct 04 06:39:23 When is he usually around? Oct 04 06:39:33 (I was guessing he should know.) Oct 04 06:40:06 I have two clues Oct 04 06:43:31 I have a doubt Oct 04 06:44:44 I hate that expression Oct 04 06:45:05 I have to leave. I also left a question on StackOverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19135064/surfaceview-lags-if-in-scrollview Oct 04 06:45:18 hehe, me too … i heard it often from out subcontractors ;) Oct 04 06:45:23 *our Oct 04 06:45:42 the new one, i guess, is "I have a quest" Oct 04 06:47:41 I would reply with a Zelda screenshot everytime Oct 04 07:06:48 if i have a maven repo with my libs but the lib has sources too how to i tell gradle to get the lib and the sources to link ? Oct 04 07:09:50 is there something like this for a textview? android:textSize="a little bigger than default" Oct 04 07:13:57 I hope 30sp looks good everywhere. looks ok in the emulator Oct 04 07:14:37 android stupid and gradle downloadSources = true with plugin 'idea' any idea if that is working yet? Oct 04 07:22:28 zmuser3: sp is an accessibility thing. doesn't preclude you from probably needing to specify multiple values for phones, 7", and 10" tablets. Oct 04 07:22:47 lemonxah: support was added in 0.2.11 today Oct 04 07:23:19 oh awesome Oct 04 07:23:23 that is GREAT news Oct 04 07:23:46 and i just got 0.2.11 Oct 04 07:24:19 how would i go about downloading the sources though cause i am still not seeing them Oct 04 07:24:34 open a class file, click "Search internet..." Oct 04 07:24:36 is it possible getting both a horizontal and vertical scroll bar indicator for a custom scrollview ? Oct 04 07:25:02 Whenever i 'spawn' both bars, only the first created gets shown Oct 04 07:25:42 JakeWharton, and if the sources are in a local maven repo? cause i see it tries maven central Oct 04 07:25:54 dunno Oct 04 07:26:24 ahh .. that sucks :/ its internal libs on our own repo Oct 04 07:26:30 oh well :/ Oct 04 07:26:56 JakeWharton: ok Oct 04 07:36:42 I've a sync adapter with a long running transaction (in separate thread). In the meanwhile the app in a loader is trying to query the database. The loader has to wait the long transaction to end before querying Oct 04 07:37:33 until that nothing unexpected... the fact is that I call yield every 500ms (and I checked with logs: it gets called and never return true == never stops) Oct 04 07:37:47 why is the yield not yielding? Oct 04 07:38:06 is it because the sync adapter run on a different process? Oct 04 07:41:44 Ok, so when I installed PyQT 5, the page said everything I needed was in the binary, but the reference guide says I need SIP. I tried to run Designer when it installed, and the program itself ran without issues, but I didn't try making a GUI. Should I assume that the binary had SIP with it? I'm unsure as to what part of the equation SIP fits into. Oct 04 07:43:06 Sorry for all of the questions... Oct 04 07:48:02 Consider that last question retracted, I found the answer. The binary did have everything, and the reference guide should have mentioned that. Oct 04 08:01:14 if i have a horizontal scrollview inside a vertical one - how would i display both scrollbars ? Oct 04 08:01:15 lol, I had installed 32 bit versions of python, etc. I'm almost done reinstalling with the 64 bit versions. Oct 04 08:01:23 and a second install of java Oct 04 08:03:30 troloyolo: no scrollview in a scrollview Oct 04 08:03:46 troloyolo: no no no no no <- got the message? NO scroll in scroll Oct 04 08:03:57 monsti - well actually i am making a custom scrollview - that is two dimensional Oct 04 08:04:06 but i can not get the scrollbars to function Oct 04 08:04:28 no idea how the scrollbars are implemented Oct 04 08:05:05 let me check something for you - i got a bookmark for a panview Oct 04 08:05:07 http://pastebin.com/Vrn2zXqS Oct 04 08:05:22 monsti - great :) Oct 04 08:07:52 troloyolo: sorry there are no scrollbars in that view Oct 04 08:08:22 you can find the article with google -> "android panview" first hit - that might help you Oct 04 08:08:51 monsti - Thanks ;) Oct 04 08:08:55 you might want to consider pinch/zoom, too Oct 04 08:10:01 monsti: ive already made pinch/zoom - however i still need to sort my boundaries because they get pretty messed up Oct 04 08:11:08 i driped the support for panviews in my project Oct 04 08:11:17 droped Oct 04 08:11:35 my intension was to use it for images (like the gallery app) Oct 04 08:11:42 well it is almost working, its only the last fixes i am working on Oct 04 08:11:50 but in the end a 8mp image of the samsung s3 needs too mich memory Oct 04 08:12:27 so you have to fool around with conditional draws, partial loadings, events - that sucks ;) Oct 04 08:18:21 monsti: the panview does not set any scrollbars unfortunatly Oct 04 08:20:34 "but in the end a 8mp image of the samsung s3 needs too mich memory" --- this is precisely why I just use WebView for pinch and zoom, which handles all that, and skin it to look nice using CSS Oct 04 08:21:35 Kegsay - thats a possibility, however it should be possible getting the last few fixes in the code tho :) Oct 04 08:22:15 i am just not sure how to fix my boundary issue - tried everything(almost) by now Oct 04 08:22:44 if you're already managing image segmentation so you don't OutOfMemoryError your app then cool. If you aren't, then I strongly suggest you rethink your approach, since on older devices and/or higher res images will crash your app every time Oct 04 08:23:16 Kegsay - i am not handling segmentation as of now Oct 04 08:23:46 then are you controlling the image size somehow? Or is it just a 'select an image' thing? Oct 04 08:24:18 not as of now, however it works brilliantly even tho i am testing on a rather old device Oct 04 08:26:11 I don't dispute that, I'm sure it is. However, it won't be consistently brilliant on other devices. Old devices can have heap sizes as low as 16MB - and if you try to load an image taken from a camera on the galaxy s4 for example... it won't end well. Oct 04 08:27:00 Kegsay - you might very well be right :) Oct 04 08:27:01 Kegsay - the issue with my bounds is however, that whenever i pinch from anything but the upper left corner (0,0) - the actual imageview gets shifted out of the bounds Oct 04 08:27:13 you dont have any ideas on how to solve that would you ? Oct 04 08:27:36 sounds like you're actually moving the imageview with your pinch/zoom mechanics? Oct 04 08:28:18 seems like it, yeah - currently i am trying to translate the imageview back into the bounds. But unsucessfully tho Oct 04 08:29:46 What is the best to use in android for a horizontal image "gallery" preview Oct 04 08:29:47 Kegsay would you wanna take a look at my scale and draw method if i paste it ? :) Oct 04 08:29:47 I suspect what is happening is that the imageview is being moved, but the actual drawing region isn't (which makes sense since the region it draws in depends on the layout it is part of) Oct 04 08:30:09 by drawing region I mean the actual viewgroup drawing region rather than the image Oct 04 08:30:30 briefly, sure Oct 04 08:31:13 exactly, the framelayout in which holds my canvas doesnt get moves which ultimately leads to my bounds messing up Oct 04 08:33:35 Kegsay - http://pastebin.com/EZwVpKBH Oct 04 08:33:52 i suspect my translate calculations to be way off Oct 04 08:38:17 I don't see where you apply any sort of bounds checking to make sure that I can't zoom/translate outside of the image Oct 04 08:39:07 Kegsay - oops, forgot to include my clamp method Oct 04 08:39:07 http://pastebin.com/KcgskQPd Oct 04 08:40:47 I also don't see why your translate is taking only zoom into account; I would expect that you would want to drift the focus x,y to the midpoint of the canvas Oct 04 08:41:21 so if I were to pinch the right edge of a huuuuge map, it would pull it to the center and zoom Oct 04 08:41:53 exactly my issue - just cant figure out a way to sort that Oct 04 08:42:28 hmm, playing around with other pinch/zoom apps (like the gallery) don't actually do that at all Oct 04 08:42:42 the pinch is literally just straight up zoom Oct 04 08:43:00 with bounds on the image to prevent you going outside it when zooming out Oct 04 08:43:26 translating s done by dragging Oct 04 08:43:28 if i removed that translate call it would also just zoom and not pull the image. However, i would still get my imageview shifted out of my bounds Oct 04 08:44:22 by that, what exactly do you mean, which bits get clipped? This happens on the zoom in or out? Oct 04 08:45:39 typicly the bottom and left side of the image gets shifted out of the bounds, and then if i pinch again, it the image would flicker and drag the image inside of my bounds once again Oct 04 08:45:58 i am most likely quite terrible at explaning the issue :) hope you can follow me Oct 04 08:46:40 ignoring that, does the pinch correctly zoom the image (ignoring the translate stuff in the pinch as well) Oct 04 08:47:49 yes if i only use the canvas.scale(scaleFactor, scaleFactor, focusX, focusY) it correctly zooms - if i zoom from the default scale factor Oct 04 08:49:12 then this isn't a zoom issue, it's your clamping which isn't working. It should be making absolutely sure that it cannot go out of where the image is drawn. If it really was working correctly, then I don't see how what you describe could happen Oct 04 08:51:30 Kegsay - that sounds about right, but the clamp method works properly when i havnt scaled the image. So my guess was that it would also work when scaled Oct 04 08:51:51 I would probably recheck that assumption :) Oct 04 08:52:18 you better recheck yo'sef before you rewreck yo'sef. Oct 04 08:53:00 hehe well i suppose you are right but i just dont get how it would all of a sudden stop functioning :D Oct 04 08:53:28 logging it also gives correct values when setting a fixed scale value Oct 04 08:54:40 however, i just noticed that the outerWidthSize only gets updates when i actually drag/pan the image, and not when scaling Oct 04 08:54:46 maybe the pinch is corrupting some of the values you're using to work out the bounds Oct 04 08:55:27 but of course the method is never called on pinch Oct 04 08:58:20 Who is using the Android Studio and can tell me how to change / show tab2, tab3 etc. in the ui designer? I only see the content of tab1 in the designer Oct 04 08:59:05 Thanks alot Kegsay, i think i am on to the problem now :) Oct 04 08:59:17 should be possible...or? :) .. workaround is to reorder the tabs but this can´t be the best solution...or ?:) Oct 04 08:59:18 np :) Oct 04 08:59:52 if i should get stuck again, you you mind that i call out for you ? :D Oct 04 09:00:25 if I'm not busy, sure Oct 04 09:05:59 I am looking for an alternative to android widget Gallery which my app is using today. I've found ViewPager and Coverflow, but neither seems like they have a large community. Is there someone else? Oct 04 09:13:32 does anyone know of a good tutorial/example for callbacks in Android using Handler.Callback? Oct 04 09:14:02 hi all, I have a problem where some I can't seem to retrieve the real path from certain Uri objects, some work and some don't, although both Uri are valid (their pointed resource exist on disk, checked with file manager). What could possibly be the problem? Oct 04 09:14:52 anny_ could you post your code ? Oct 04 09:19:32 hello Oct 04 09:20:02 spinningarrow: It is an interface you implement in the class you initiate your worker/thread so the worker/thread knows what metod to execute the callback to Oct 04 09:20:19 scorpyo, hi Oct 04 09:20:35 Can I ask about an APK compilation? Oct 04 09:20:53 don't ask to ask.. just shoot it! Oct 04 09:21:03 hello. is there a way to see the android kernel config? like in the linux kernel cat /boot/config-* ? Oct 04 09:21:37 ivali, insall a shell.. there are heaps online Oct 04 09:21:52 or do you want it in java? Oct 04 09:22:12 hi superlinux-hp, I have a problem with setting.apk recompilation Oct 04 09:22:41 when flash to phone, don't work Oct 04 09:22:50 scorpyo, are you building an open source project? or are you writing your own code? Oct 04 09:23:32 Stock's settings.apk Oct 04 09:24:32 superlinux-hp, inside a shell. in terminal emulator :D Oct 04 09:24:44 i want to see if a certain usb dongle driver has been enabled Oct 04 09:25:46 ivali, so you're looking for me to recommend you a terminal? Oct 04 09:26:17 when flash a zip with original settings.apk and after flash with custom settings.apk work fine...... ?? why? Oct 04 09:26:19 because that config file i am not sure if it does exist Oct 04 09:26:56 Kegsay - seeing that i do not call any bounds check when i pinch - but only when i scroll, would i be able to convert my translate() method into actually doing some sort of bounds check ? Oct 04 09:27:03 superlinux-hp. in every linux installation we can find a /boot/config-* file. inside it, we can see the kernel config that had been used to build it Oct 04 09:27:14 i was wondering if there is something similar on android, but i don't think it is Oct 04 09:27:41 ivali, i know that i chat from my debian Oct 04 09:28:20 ivali, if kernel hasn't this opcion "config.gz" dont see Oct 04 09:28:43 ivali, I am just not sure if that file exists or if access to /boot has some permissions Oct 04 09:29:10 ivali, yes as scorpyo says Oct 04 09:29:52 troloyolo, yes, but remember you can zoom out as well (so will need to limit how far you can zoom out) Oct 04 09:30:17 I'm build a Kernel new for my Device "GT-S5570i" whit this option.... help to developers Oct 04 09:30:46 sorry my Inglish Oct 04 09:30:58 English* Oct 04 09:31:11 Kegsay - yep :) any idea on how to build up the bounds there ? i suppose i can reuse my clamp method and wrap that around my setFocusX() call Oct 04 09:32:06 superlinux-hp, what do think about my problem? Oct 04 09:33:10 I have 18 hours....... don't sleeping.... (I'm form spain) Oct 04 09:33:29 :S Oct 04 09:34:08 ivali, what is your device? Oct 04 09:34:10 scorpyo, no answer i can give. Oct 04 09:34:12 scorpyo, i am from Lebanon. Oct 04 09:35:04 ok :D Oct 04 09:38:49 can someone help my Oct 04 09:42:04 have I that sign the APK to /system/app ??? Oct 04 09:43:05 The stock is sign... Oct 04 09:43:58 scorpyo: you can't, unless you sign application with system keys Oct 04 09:45:54 p_l, no?? I'm reading post in XDA for mod Settings.apk.... the problem is to sign.... Oct 04 09:46:12 and systenUI.apk Oct 04 09:47:11 decompile fine, and compile fine, but after don't work Oct 04 09:47:44 ... those involve either rooting (and bypassing signature check), and/or bypassing it by flashing a different firmware (at least recovery) Oct 04 09:49:56 I don't understand Oct 04 09:53:01 I'm customrom create for me with Android-Kitchen (XDA) and it is very avanded... Oct 04 09:53:31 http://pc-citos.blogspot.com.es/2013/07/custom-rom-para-gt-s5570i.html Oct 04 09:53:33 you need to use either the same signing key, or use root to replace teh code Oct 04 09:55:03 I'm using apktool.... Oct 04 09:56:39 also I get settings.apk and move with ADB Shell (root) and don't work..... Oct 04 09:58:49 how get a valid key to sign with apktool ?? Oct 04 09:59:06 scorpyo: from builder of the ROM Oct 04 10:00:39 p_l, how?? with apktool? get the "metainf" folder?... :( Oct 04 10:01:15 scorpyo: from the *person* who made the ROM. Also, go to #android-root or #xda-developers with custom rom/rooting questions Oct 04 10:03:37 p_l I'm creator the custom rom GingerCerecilla...... to link up, I have all necesary tools (I think) Oct 04 10:04:38 root wok in the rom.... Oct 04 10:04:45 root work in the rom.... Oct 04 10:05:06 Sorry, can't help you anymore, though if you build the ROM through normal process (with your modifications included) it would sign everything properly, the instructions used to be somewhere in android.com Oct 04 10:05:44 I Don't understand why don't work recompilation apk.... Oct 04 10:05:58 ok Oct 04 10:06:04 thanks Oct 04 10:07:22 one thing more p_l Oct 04 10:08:13 It coul be a problem with java? Oct 04 10:08:52 ... nope Oct 04 10:09:06 at least, I can't figure a way in which it could be Oct 04 10:09:24 the problem is in using apktool instead of building the code from source properly Oct 04 10:10:09 XD ok, no problem, Thank you very much XD Oct 04 10:10:56 I try other method... :D Oct 04 10:48:25 hi everyone Oct 04 10:49:12 i have a little question Oct 04 10:49:27 have someone some experience using JavaScriptCore on android ? Oct 04 10:52:05 bankai_ you there ? Oct 04 11:03:28 well MediaPlayer.setNextMediaPlayer totally sucks with video content Oct 04 11:05:12 do you guys sometimes cry and rock yourselves to sleep with android dev? Oct 04 11:05:27 ... no Oct 04 11:05:58 margle: meaning android dev helps you or android dev is the problem? Oct 04 11:06:06 margle: anyway, it's neither for me:D Oct 04 11:06:16 I don't mean the channel, I just mean the whole ecosystem. Oct 04 11:06:19 g00s_: yep, but not for much longer Oct 04 11:06:24 I don't know if I like it… and that annoys me. Oct 04 11:06:32 hey g00s_ bankai_ Oct 04 11:06:52 hey bankai_ thx, quick q : are you using plain intellij with the gradle plugin ? Oct 04 11:07:00 margle: I've been a programmer for 4 years now and I'm not loving it either Oct 04 11:07:15 no gradle Oct 04 11:07:18 margle: granted I haven't done android development for long (maybe 1month) Oct 04 11:07:19 ok Oct 04 11:07:37 man, i just had a coming to jesus episode Oct 04 11:07:51 this gradle stuff and as 0.2.11 is so fucked up Oct 04 11:08:03 i think i'm just going to take a break from android dev or use eclipse again Oct 04 11:08:08 that's gradle for ya ;) hehehe Oct 04 11:08:11 i'm off, sorry :) Oct 04 11:08:13 Voicu: i've got 12 years+ programming experience and i find it reasonable Oct 04 11:08:15 margle: programming is just like any other job - 5% of it is cool and interesting and the rest is grunt work Oct 04 11:08:15 take care bankai_ Oct 04 11:08:18 hi. how can i send my master key to Adobe Acrobat reader for example from within Java code to open a secured PDF file? Oct 04 11:08:29 the aim is to sell books. Oct 04 11:08:40 Napalm: yeah, I think it's ok but I can't say omg, this programming stuff is the shit Oct 04 11:09:01 Voicu: the Android API has its nuances, but all-in-all, its be done pretty well Oct 04 11:09:08 Napalm: yep Oct 04 11:09:38 Napalm: except when your boss requests shady stuff from you :D Oct 04 11:10:02 Voicu: i wouldnt complain, if you've ever done OS dev, you'll realise its not as straight forward as you perceve things now Oct 04 11:11:23 hello Oct 04 11:11:53 Hello. Oct 04 11:11:53 Voicu: sounds like your not that interested in programming, i still find my work 75% cool and interesting Oct 04 11:12:03 You're* Oct 04 11:12:08 :P Oct 04 11:12:11 can anyone please check a translation? it's just 7 lines Oct 04 11:12:18 Napalm: depends on what you're working on Oct 04 11:12:29 Napalm: I've had some cool projects and some really shitty ones Oct 04 11:12:31 Does anyone know how to solve this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19135064/surfaceview-lags-if-in-scrollview/19175170?noredirect=1#19175170 Oct 04 11:12:36 ? Oct 04 11:12:42 Voicu: i seem to get all the cool projects :) Oct 04 11:12:57 Voicu: im that programmer you hate from a distance :D Oct 04 11:12:58 hehe Oct 04 11:13:05 Napalm: nah, I don't hate Oct 04 11:13:07 I tried implementing an onScrollListener for the ScrollView but it's simply too complicated. Oct 04 11:13:10 Napalm: it's been mostly nice for me too Oct 04 11:13:18 sogard: what about that? Oct 04 11:13:32 Well, the SurfaceView lags. Oct 04 11:13:34 yes Oct 04 11:13:36 it will Oct 04 11:13:38 When you scroll. Oct 04 11:13:40 it cant be helped Oct 04 11:13:42 How to solve it? Oct 04 11:13:45 use a TextureView Oct 04 11:13:55 Will it work? Oct 04 11:13:59 yes Oct 04 11:14:15 Post an answer on stackoverflow. Oct 04 11:14:17 I'll accept it. Oct 04 11:15:22 sogard: tada Oct 04 11:15:30 p_l, finaly wok! decompile, mod, compile..... go to folder "build" and copy resources.arsc and res folder to apk original Oct 04 11:15:51 How about pre-ICS? Oct 04 11:16:04 sogard: this for video? Oct 04 11:16:11 guys, jelly bean at 50% :D Oct 04 11:16:15 For some plotting. Oct 04 11:16:22 wtf? Oct 04 11:16:28 why use a surfaceview Oct 04 11:16:38 Because I'm doing animation on it. Oct 04 11:16:41 * Napalm cry's a little inside Oct 04 11:17:02 sogard: just use a view Oct 04 11:17:04 I'm listening. Oct 04 11:17:22 I want smooth animation. Oct 04 11:17:26 and? Oct 04 11:17:30 i get that fine with views Oct 04 11:17:39 all the way back to 2.1 Oct 04 11:17:53 Okay then. Oct 04 11:17:59 I'll use views. Oct 04 11:18:23 what's so wrong about using a surfaceview? Oct 04 11:18:33 what does it do that makes it a bad idea? Oct 04 11:18:43 I really need the dimensions of the view, so onSurfaceChanged was really nice. Oct 04 11:19:46 sogard: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/View.html#onSizeChanged%28int,%20int,%20int,%20int%29 Oct 04 11:20:06 Voicu: its over-kill most of the time, and the number of bugs that surfaceview has across the versions of android its pointless Oct 04 11:20:18 Decent. Thanks a bunch. Oct 04 11:20:32 Voicu: if you only need to support ICS+ then use TextureView otherwise use View if you can get away with it Oct 04 11:20:51 surfaceview has better performance than view when hardware accelerated is disabled Oct 04 11:21:11 Napalm: yeah but how is it overkill? what's the overhead of surfaceview? Oct 04 11:21:32 I see, so it's an alternative to hardware 2D? Oct 04 11:21:41 does it do software opengl or soemthing? Oct 04 11:21:58 Voicu: what does? Oct 04 11:22:01 surfaceview Oct 04 11:22:35 its more complex than that Oct 04 11:22:45 and something i'm not going to talk about now Oct 04 11:22:50 i cant be assed, too much to do Oct 04 11:25:38 hmm, from the docs I see it does some weird Z ordering and alpha blending Oct 04 11:25:49 I don't really udnerstand it needs to do that Oct 04 11:25:56 but I suppose it would be slow then Oct 04 11:29:51 Napalm, what's your connection to Android? Oct 04 11:33:42 sogard: Contracted Android Developer Oct 04 11:34:06 What type of apps do you develop? Oct 04 11:35:21 sogard: all types Oct 04 11:35:52 is it possible to set a timer? to get called in lets say 1 hour, but only if the app is still opened? Oct 04 11:36:25 gavilan2: yes, but why? Oct 04 11:37:56 I'm doing an app in which, the user can add EditTexts to the screen by pressing "Add Amount" button. The user can add any number of fileds back to back. Once the user presses the "Calculate" button, I should calculate the sum of all the individual fields. Right now, I use a table layout as the parent and add text fields back to back as table rows. The invidual ids are stored in an arraylist and calculates the sum finally. Is there any better/effici Oct 04 11:37:56 ent way to do this? Oct 04 11:38:46 Napalm: I need to do something after 10 minutes Oct 04 11:41:21 napster: if each row is only a EditText and nothing else, then you can just use a LinearLayout.. but you also dont need to store any id's you can triverse the view tree and find all the EditTexts that are children of your LinearLayout/TableLayout and add up all the values Oct 04 11:42:32 Napalm, ok, there is a text view associated to each of them as well. So table will be required. I was hopping there is something better to do such tasks. Oct 04 11:42:37 thanks mate Napalm Oct 04 11:50:02 I am looking for an alternative to android widget Gallery which my app is using today. I've found a few, but most of them extends Gallery Oct 04 11:50:06 any tips? Oct 04 12:07:15 I feel like Gallery on android is a topic not to be talked about.... Oct 04 12:07:37 Gallery is dead, you should never use it Oct 04 12:07:58 it had a major recycling bug which fouled up any good backward compatibility Oct 04 12:09:55 Onack: QuickPic! Oct 04 12:10:13 Oh, widget, no idea.. Oct 04 12:11:24 * monsti considers phonegap now more gay then ever before :( Oct 04 12:11:49 there is no portable "download a file" way Oct 04 12:12:00 looool Oct 04 12:12:13 phonegap as always been crap Oct 04 12:12:14 iOS has no /mnt/something/generic/for/files ;) Oct 04 12:12:20 nor Win8 Oct 04 12:12:42 LocalAppStorage.Dark.Room.Gaysex Oct 04 12:12:52 loool Oct 04 12:12:55 yup Oct 04 12:13:31 ok this is no phonegap problem ;) Oct 04 12:18:48 Napalm: Point is I am trying to find something to get rid of Gallery Oct 04 12:20:42 I have yet to find one that reuses views Oct 04 12:28:05 main problem with Gallery is that it doesnt reuse views, but no other implementation I have found is neither reusing views... So i dont really see the point of using those over Gallery Oct 04 12:50:36 Onack: https://www.google.com/search?q=github+android-horizontal-listview Oct 04 12:57:13 need help, i have fragment father and inside fragment child. child call an activity and i need to callback onactivityresult. doesent works, why? Oct 04 12:58:57 i recieve onactivityresult in activity and in fragment father Oct 04 12:59:22 xan_IT: how are you starting the activity Oct 04 12:59:43 Intent i = new Intent(getActivity(), PaymentPushActivity.class); indise fragment child Oct 04 13:00:13 is right? Oct 04 13:00:55 xan_IT: and then calling the childFragments startActivityForResult() ? Oct 04 13:01:14 startActivityForResult(i, PaymentPushActivity.getRequestCode()); Oct 04 13:03:02 so can someone here discuss briefly when does on destroy actually get called? Oct 04 13:03:42 becuase if its anything like iOS (and im not suggesting it is) but the view goes in a garbage collector and doesnt get destroyed until the system decides to do so, usually based on a need for some extra space Oct 04 13:04:38 Napalm so? Oct 04 13:06:44 xan_IT: it might be lower down in the call chain, you are not calling the "super" implementation in the activity if its a request code it doesnt handle same in the father fragment Oct 04 13:08:13 Napalm each fragment and each activity call super inside onactivityresult Oct 04 13:09:54 JeremieDeNoob: view's dont have a onDestroy Oct 04 13:10:10 my appology. activities Oct 04 13:10:19 xan_IT: no idea yet, unless your using the same request code and its getting captured higher up in the method chain Oct 04 13:10:25 (again, iOS habbits) Oct 04 13:10:38 Napalm from fragment father i add fragment child in that way "getChildFragmentManager().beginTransaction().add(R.id.main, paymentFragment).commit();" Oct 04 13:10:59 is right? Oct 04 13:12:24 xan_IT: that's right, execept for one thing, you might be adding multiple fragments and that might be your issue Oct 04 13:12:40 xan_IT: you can always make your request code derive itself from the fragments id Oct 04 13:13:52 Napalm i dont understand Oct 04 13:16:25 well tuff luck Oct 04 13:16:26 :D Oct 04 13:19:14 hi, i think i will re-ask my question Oct 04 13:19:17 have someone some experience using JavaScriptCore on android ? Oct 04 13:20:26 i just want to make some wrapper in C++, and i want the same engine for iOS and Android, so i'm looking on JavaScriptCore, but didn't find something usefull or clean for JSC on android Oct 04 13:20:44 xan_IT: and you'll inevitably experience IllegalStateExceptions doing fragment transactions like that Oct 04 13:21:37 i have no problem with IllegalStateExceptions Oct 04 13:21:46 anyone want to help me? Oct 04 13:21:52 Napalm, soooo bored at work just took a 30 minute nap in the back office Oct 04 13:22:14 xan_IT: saw that coming a mile away Oct 04 13:23:00 you help me? Oct 04 13:23:08 yes Oct 04 13:23:26 no one for my problem ? :( Oct 04 13:24:03 xdelph_: waste of time. Oct 04 13:24:14 why ? Oct 04 13:24:26 because there's an SDK for both platforms. Oct 04 13:25:01 what SDK ? i don't find any ùJS Oct 04 13:25:11 JS engine compiled for both iOS and android Oct 04 13:25:58 you want to write code wrapped in C++ that'll run on both Android and iOS. Oct 04 13:26:19 how are you going to accommodate the huge difference in user interface design Oct 04 13:27:37 in fact, i will code an c++ wrapper for javascript, so the javascript code will access to c++ function and use the native performance of Open gl (as i will have a webgl application) Oct 04 13:28:00 the only problem in my project in the JS engine for the two platform Oct 04 13:28:36 nseidm1 http://pastebin.com/f4zNDpRe Oct 04 13:30:23 nseidm1 i enter in onactivityResult of activity and fragment father, not in fragment child Oct 04 13:31:57 Hey folks, anyone knows how people add links (html anchors) to their app descriptions? Oct 04 13:32:04 in google play Oct 04 13:32:25 nseidm1 so? Oct 04 13:35:20 you're using the wrong context Oct 04 13:35:24 use the fragments context Oct 04 13:35:28 bam, done. Oct 04 13:38:25 nseidm1 : and for my JS engine problem ? Oct 04 13:40:28 hello, would a browser toolbar be a separate app or would it have access to the browser's data? Oct 04 13:41:06 or better yet - is making a toolbar possible in android? Oct 04 13:41:07 ... jesus christ not brwser toolbars in Android Oct 04 13:41:31 p_l: I'm not trying to make it Oct 04 13:41:39 which USB hub do you guys use that can provide enough juice for a few devices Oct 04 13:41:55 fortunately no browser supports external toolbars (though they would be technically possible...) Oct 04 13:44:05 nseidm1 where? Oct 04 13:47:13 p_l: technically possible meaning if they would make the browsers capable of having toolbars? Oct 04 13:47:48 Voicu: if they made browsers that created a plugin system for that, yes Oct 04 13:47:49 p_l: there are some toolbars out there that get installed as operator specific software Oct 04 13:47:58 p_l: like this one, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.skyfire.browser.toolbar Oct 04 13:48:01 Voicu: not in browsers, afaik Oct 04 13:48:05 I assume it's a custom browser then? Oct 04 13:48:09 custom browsers Oct 04 13:48:13 ok then Oct 04 13:48:16 good to know :D Oct 04 13:48:25 well, or skyfire did implement an interface for toolbars Oct 04 13:48:36 p_l: my nexus will never suffer from such illness :D Oct 04 13:49:06 seems to me to be done by injecting shit into your pages with proxy Oct 04 13:49:28 ah, I see Oct 04 13:49:37 that's a different story Oct 04 13:50:44 or still possible, a (classic) Browser.apk replacement, since it's preloaded... Oct 04 13:51:34 xdelph_: I don't understand why you would want to do that Oct 04 13:53:20 JakeWharton: What's the difference between okhttp-1.2.1 which is linked from the github README and okhttp-1.2.1-jar-with-dependencies.jar which is linked from the github.io website? Oct 04 13:53:57 I looked into them, the latter contains a spdy package, but I've found no information as to what exactly the difference in behaviour is. (And two different downloads are kinda strange anyway). Oct 04 13:57:39 nseidm1 : a js application using webgl on mobile have very poor performance, that's why i want to ake a bridge to open gl using a js engine Oct 04 13:57:49 Ah, I found https://github.com/square/okhttp/issues/282 Oct 04 14:16:38 Anyone knows why I get "could not set property" when I do adb shell setprop myname "myvalue" ? Oct 04 14:21:18 xdelph_: port your JS to the Android SDK and the iOS SDK Oct 04 14:24:15 too much work fo r all the next js application, that's why i prefer work one time on this wrapper, then my js app will be available on desktop, iOS and android Oct 04 14:24:28 nseidm1 ^ Oct 04 14:25:23 you cannot write one app, and have it run on desktop, android and ios Oct 04 14:25:29 if you head down the road of one code fits all Oct 04 14:25:34 the app will fail on android and ios Oct 04 14:25:52 games are another story Oct 04 14:26:56 it may be "too much work" but if you attempt to publish a js/web app on Android and iOS I guarantee you'll be disappointed when you start seeing comments from your userbase Oct 04 14:28:29 this will be perhaprs the case but i want to try to do the wrapper, so have you some good link, or guide to have JavaScriptCore for iOS & android Oct 04 14:28:31 ? Oct 04 14:44:43 you can embed v8 Oct 04 14:44:48 as a C library Oct 04 14:44:54 or use rhino or whatnot on android Oct 04 14:54:47 Has anyone here had experience working with a third party Audio library in Android, and have advice on what to go with? Oct 04 14:59:19 why would you need a 3rd party audio library Oct 04 14:59:25 openSL is so fully featured Oct 04 14:59:51 i know one use case: play mp3 at variable speed Oct 04 15:00:02 openSL does that Oct 04 15:08:08 Hello all, question, I am working on creating a video player for Android (integrating a 3rd-party SDK) and I've gotten to the point where everything works except for seeking HLS videos. Now, I've read the docs and its said that there are possible work arounds for Android inability to fully support HLS. Oct 04 15:08:34 Would anyone know where I could find information on how to get to the bottom of the issue? Oct 04 15:08:35 pfn : the fact i wanted to have the same JS engine on both iOS and Android, so the code will be more easy to maintain Oct 04 15:08:53 xdelph_, try phonegap if that's what you're really after Oct 04 15:09:16 and bug the #phonegap people Oct 04 15:09:20 phonegap is not supported here Oct 04 15:09:44 AnimeCYC, HLS in android framework is written like poop Oct 04 15:09:52 pfn: So i've read... Oct 04 15:10:00 HLS? Oct 04 15:10:02 AnimeCYC, options: write your own parser/content provider, use a 3rd party library (none are free) Oct 04 15:10:15 I've used the akamai hls player library in one of my past projects Oct 04 15:10:21 it was a few thousand a month Oct 04 15:10:48 makes me want to write my own and sell it.... Oct 04 15:10:50 pfn: We are integrating the Brightcove SDKs, im already bugging them about it. Hopefully they give me some feedback soon. Oct 04 15:11:22 pfn: Do you know of any hack-ish ways to make it work in so much as it just ... working but crappy? If thsat makes sense lol Oct 04 15:11:38 I think we paid like $4000/mo for the akamai hls librarry across 3 apps Oct 04 15:11:45 AnimeCYC, seeking works, iirc, just so shittily Oct 04 15:11:51 like none of the onSeek callbacks fire Oct 04 15:11:58 so you need to poll getCurrentTime() Oct 04 15:12:22 p_l, http live streaming Oct 04 15:12:32 pfn: Say manually pausing the video, then seeking to the time, then playing with the reported time I get back from the scrub-bar? Oct 04 15:13:57 no, you store the requested seek time, and initiate the seek request, and then compare the mediaplayer's current time until it's roughly around the requested seek time Oct 04 15:14:01 something like a segment length Oct 04 15:15:40 Hello, what's the process to identify the line number of a stack trace (on segmentation fault) Oct 04 15:17:13 pfn, i see. Let me give that a go and see how luck I am. Oct 04 15:17:19 Thanks for the quick responses! Oct 04 15:19:00 Is there a way to get the theme's active icon color? For example, on my Android 4.1, If I enable wifi from the notifications menu/screen, the icon changes color from gray(ish) to blue. Is there a way to get that color programatically Oct 04 15:19:41 there seems to be quite a few of arm-linux-androideabi-addr2line in ndk, which one should be used? :( Oct 04 15:25:24 Anybody applied for Google Play for Education programme? Oct 04 15:25:28 hey i rooted my smartphone and am currently trying to install tcpdump ... anyone got experience with that and can help me out... i'm a little lost Oct 04 15:28:25 #android-root Oct 04 15:28:48 thx Oct 04 15:41:47 Is there a way to get the accent color? Oct 04 16:32:28 pfn: Thanks for your suggestion. I was albe to get seeking to work reliably with HLS streams. Oct 04 17:13:36 When apps show a dropdown of email addresses under an edittext is that just an AutoCompleteTextView with the accounts supplied? or is there an Android widget built just for that? Oct 04 17:14:33 Just an autocompletetextview Oct 04 17:15:23 thanks Oct 04 17:46:34 ? Oct 04 17:50:21 <^cheeky> hello 0/ Oct 04 18:02:36 caseycrites / SimonVT, or you can use the Chips library Oct 04 18:02:42 frameworks/ex/chips Oct 04 18:03:25 * caseycrites looks into it Oct 04 18:05:49 does anyone know, with the gradle plugin, why the uploadArchives:install task is not there? did it get clobbered by installXXX (variant) ? Oct 04 18:13:15 <^cheeky> g00s: when i d/c lasttime, my north bridge temp was 82C :) Oct 04 18:13:25 <^cheeky> AS yay Oct 04 18:15:56 canadiancow: Or that, yeah. That's probably better Oct 04 18:19:13 ^cheeky not so sure anymore Oct 04 18:21:10 <^cheeky> i am kinda fuzzed how different parts of android work, fragments and activities all modular and they was you communicate between them , is there one good way to stick to, i know you do with intents and such, but more like a pattern. i see the factory method being used. more i muck around with it the more fuzzed it gets for me sadly. Is having one activity that gets an url of an item clicked on a gridview, i get the url from the objec Oct 04 18:21:10 <^cheeky> gridview, using an intent, then when i get the intent and the activity starts i get the url and use intent service to fetch the url bytes and use the bytes given back to create an image .so being an intent service the handler has to be in an activity rather fragment, Oct 04 18:21:16 Siva Velusamy said in adt-dev "We recommend sticking to Eclipse/ant for production until we reach 1.0. " Oct 04 18:21:58 <^cheeky> g00s: well my cpu fans were not working heh spent hell of time being back up online , fun fun Oct 04 18:23:39 oh, i thought your box was over heating from something going crazy Oct 04 18:24:28 like, the way my temper is over heating Oct 04 18:25:25 <^cheeky> lol Oct 04 18:26:09 <^cheeky> i dunno repaired will see dunno running fans higher and AS is a good idea, worried i might melt the soldering points and need a new board :/ Oct 04 18:26:10 <^cheeky> :( Oct 04 19:38:10 is there an android develoer? Oct 04 19:38:18 i want only litle help Oct 04 19:53:54 karachiguy2: just ask. someone will probably help eventually Oct 04 20:00:03 hey guys, I'm building opengl es2 app with ndk, and I need OES extensions so i #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES before any include of GLES2/gl2.h so it should be fine, but I'm getting error: undefined reference to 'glBindVertexArrayOES'. What i'm doing wrong ? Oct 04 20:04:49 JohnPoison, are you sure your Makefiles etc. are seeing the included headers? Oct 04 20:06:36 Ologn, i guess so, all other gl functions is available, and according to ndk-build output looks like it includes correct ndk headers Oct 04 20:07:25 JohnPoison, and also if it's C++ you need to do: extern "C" Oct 04 20:08:33 JohnPoison, if it's back and forth through the JNI...not internal in C/C++ land Oct 04 20:09:01 Ologn, it's c++, but I dont understand where to place extern "C" and why Oct 04 20:10:23 JohnPoison, usually with Android JNI you import say four or five libraries...then you can do it different ways, but most people then create an additional library Oct 04 20:11:00 The imported libraries generally don't have to be changed at all, or changed much, other than how inclusion and source code is laid out Oct 04 20:11:17 Then the new library you do all the JNIexport stuff and extern C if it's C++ etc. Oct 04 20:12:57 For the libraries you're bringing in, in the Makefile, LOCAL_C_INCLUDES points to where the include files are, LOCAL_SRC_FILES points to where the src files are in the Makefile Oct 04 20:15:18 So you can pretty much leave old libraries alone, other than figuring out how to point LOCAL_C_INCLUDES and LOCAL_SRC_FILES properly in the Android.mk file...you probably want to give those old libraries a LOCAL_MODULE name as well...like jpeg for a jpeg libary or something Oct 04 20:15:19 Ologn, but how it's related with OES problem ? Oct 04 20:15:37 JohnPoison, I guess it's not, good luck finding an answer... Oct 04 20:16:38 Ologn, anyway thank u =) Oct 04 20:25:33 hi guys.. im just wondering... when i upload a new apk which has downgraded the supported android version from 17->8, why it does not update the list of supported device ? Oct 04 20:26:01 Are there some catches with BroadcastReceiver lifetimes?; I'm trying to do something at android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED but with a time delay and fired off from a handler from onReceive(), but it never completes. The same function from within an active app/Activity works fine. Oct 04 20:26:31 the upload shows that it supports more with the new apk... but then in the main publish screen it shows another lower figure Oct 04 20:27:15 is there a way to delete uploaded .apk Oct 04 20:27:32 i just want to clear the supported device and reupload the apk Oct 04 20:31:05 even the support API is still showing the old apk information after uploading the new one Oct 04 20:33:40 is it because the version is the same as the previous uploaded version number ? Oct 04 20:36:32 that would be my first guess Oct 04 20:37:38 therion23: really strange.. it asked to delete the old apk after the new upload. but it was never replaced...even the dates are not updated...really strange Oct 04 20:38:32 axilaris, i cannot tell you for sure, i dont write apps, i geek around with the OS itself Oct 04 20:38:43 hmm ok Oct 04 20:38:48 but it would somehow make sense it ignores another apk for the same version Oct 04 20:39:34 doesnt make sense to me Oct 04 20:42:28 well, if you dont bump the version then how would it know that it is updated? Oct 04 20:43:08 versionCode has to be unique for each apk, versionName does not Oct 04 20:43:19 Stats, etc, doesn't update immediately Oct 04 20:43:22 its not even published Oct 04 20:43:25 axilaris, always update version number if you reupload to play store Oct 04 20:43:29 let me change the version number Oct 04 20:43:30 that is versioncode Oct 04 20:43:47 the previous version is also a draft version Oct 04 20:43:54 unpublished apk Oct 04 20:44:15 so r u implying that any uploaded apk have to always have a new version number ? Oct 04 20:44:19 yes. Oct 04 20:44:29 yeah versionCode is the important one Oct 04 20:44:29 even for unpublished apk ? Oct 04 20:44:31 yes. Oct 04 20:44:38 published doesn't mean anything Oct 04 20:44:42 versionName can easily remain the same Oct 04 20:44:47 ok Oct 04 20:44:49 got it Oct 04 20:44:50 package name + versionCode is the unique identifier for an apk Oct 04 20:44:53 not version name Oct 04 20:44:56 but the new build code Oct 04 20:44:59 if you don't change them you'll have lots of wierd bugs :) Oct 04 20:45:07 that makes sense Oct 04 20:45:21 You just can't upload an apk with a versionCode that already exists Oct 04 20:45:26 No weird bugs Oct 04 20:45:28 no whatsoever indication error Oct 04 20:45:33 is that mikedg on digg frontpage :O Oct 04 20:45:43 it should just say cannot be uploaded because versioncode/name is the same Oct 04 20:45:47 yup Oct 04 20:46:27 thanks guys for the tp Oct 04 20:46:28 tip Oct 04 20:46:31 will try it Oct 04 20:59:00 pfn: Happen to know if its possible to seek a video while it is paused? Oct 04 20:59:25 Cant seem to find any info on this, and it doesnt seem to work unless I intermittly start/play the player Oct 04 21:16:22 why i can't find eglGetProcAddress anywhere in ndk? Oct 04 21:19:47 it works with updating versioncoe Oct 04 21:20:44 JohnPoison: you can just declare the functions you need instead Oct 04 21:21:11 AnimeCYC, yeah, you need to start the player after you seek or something Oct 04 21:22:22 romainguy, I need functions like in this link http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14406829/undefined-reference-glbindvertexarrayoes-glgenvertexarraysoes-gldeletevertexarra but I need eglGetProcAddress for that Oct 04 21:22:31 No you don't Oct 04 21:22:33 pfn: When I seek while paused it likes to play a few frames from the last position, is that normal? Im trying to make that stop happening. Oct 04 21:22:44 JohnPoison: you can just declare it and invoke it if the extension is present Oct 04 21:25:16 AnimeCYC, yeah, it's normal Oct 04 21:25:24 if the HLS player misbehaves in any way, that's normal... Oct 04 21:25:28 romainguy, isn't that a dirty trick? :-D Oct 04 21:25:42 I see, man, coming from iOS this is a pain haha Oct 04 21:25:45 Not really :) Oct 04 21:25:53 That's what I do in the UI hardware renderer Oct 04 21:26:33 romainguy, I guess i could exclude those devices that doesn't support this with manifest, right ? Oct 04 21:26:48 If you *need* the extension you'll have to Oct 04 21:28:15 I'm just porting ios game to android. Never worked with android before Oct 04 21:28:44 AnimeCYC, framework hls player is garbage Oct 04 21:28:59 AnimeCYC, in 4.0, 4.1 and maybe even 4.2, it's just there as a bullet point to say it's there Oct 04 21:29:01 imo Oct 04 21:29:39 ha, yeah ... about to just get this working stupid Oct 04 21:31:00 AnimeCYC, like I said, ended up licensing a different player Oct 04 21:31:29 Wish i could, im working with a thirdparty player already, they just happen to be using the framework Oct 04 21:32:04 romainguy, I've declared these functions, and I'm getting undefined reference to... so this means these functions are missing in the static library ? Oct 04 21:34:15 where does intellij hide the intermediate build artifacts? Oct 04 21:34:23 I need to debug a proguard problem... Oct 04 21:34:56 Hello all Oct 04 21:35:27 I am looking into getting into android dev by making an app with a map that shows gps locations of busses Oct 04 21:35:37 does anyone have a starting point for me? Oct 04 21:36:23 d.android.com Oct 04 21:36:43 is that tutorials? Oct 04 21:37:06 also, Is the galaxy nexus/ nexus 7 good for use on development"? Oct 04 21:38:16 eclipse is decent for development? Oct 04 21:38:44 "decent" is a good word for eclipse :-p Oct 04 21:38:52 it's not great, and it's not awful. Oct 04 21:38:53 anytrhing more decent? Oct 04 21:39:02 JohnPoison: hmm I see eglGetProcAddress() in egl.h Oct 04 21:39:04 I dunno, I use eclipse Oct 04 21:39:17 hrm Oct 04 21:39:26 there's android studio but it's in preview right now Oct 04 21:39:36 oh Oct 04 21:39:44 romainguy, I dont have such header :( Oct 04 21:39:44 android is java right? Oct 04 21:39:49 a lot of people swear by IntelliJ, but I've never used it myself. Oct 04 21:39:51 yessir Oct 04 21:39:53 JohnPoison: it's in the NDK Oct 04 21:39:56 in EGL/ Oct 04 21:40:17 ok Oct 04 21:40:50 romainguy, looks like that's the problem, I dont have EGL Oct 04 21:41:55 romainguy, looks like it's from 9 version Oct 04 21:44:38 romainguy, where to specify api version for ndk? minSDKVersion in manifest? Oct 04 21:44:54 yep Oct 04 21:45:18 yep Oct 04 21:47:53 yep Oct 04 21:48:03 yep Oct 04 21:48:06 yep Oct 04 21:48:09 how can i get documentation about what a gradle android task does? Oct 04 21:48:21 NOOOOOOOOO Oct 04 21:48:30 like i want to know what goes on in the preBuild step Oct 04 21:48:46 welp, King of the Hill moment ruined. Oct 04 21:49:03 oops Oct 04 21:49:18 * pragma- wanders off to sell propane. Oct 04 21:49:40 and propane accessories. Oct 04 21:58:29 oy, I hate proguard and obfuscation; at least when it comes and bites me in the ass Oct 04 22:15:55 is it common to put out an app and then have someone copy the idea and market it better? Oct 04 22:18:14 zmuser3: you just described the free market, except it's not limited to apps Oct 04 22:19:02 yeah. I guess I am just scared to release. the target market is just a small niche group so I am not going to sell much (if any) either way Oct 04 22:19:25 what's to be scared of? Oct 04 22:19:31 guys Oct 04 22:19:35 dunno Oct 04 22:19:43 just never released my own software before Oct 04 22:19:50 He's scared of not becoming famous for his app. Oct 04 22:19:54 heh Oct 04 22:20:08 so? Oct 04 22:20:11 just release it Oct 04 22:20:56 you release first, you get feedback sooner Oct 04 22:21:19 if someone copies it, and it's lucrative, just keep putting more into it Oct 04 22:21:27 ok Oct 04 22:21:40 if it's not successful, you didn't waste as much time Oct 04 22:22:53 Is selling apps really a decent way to make money, I never buy apps, do others really buy them? Oct 04 22:23:16 for most developers, it's a good way to make side money Oct 04 22:23:21 for some developers, it's a primary living Oct 04 22:23:35 hmm Oct 04 22:23:50 well I have never made an app before, but I do know a little java Oct 04 22:23:54 just patent your app Oct 04 22:24:04 ? Oct 04 22:24:43 if you know a "little" java, then just go for it. the worst that could happen is you learn something Oct 04 22:24:53 which is better than doing nothing Oct 04 22:24:55 right Oct 04 22:24:57 I suppose Oct 04 22:24:57 i bought a few apps, most not worth it, but a couple sure were Oct 04 22:25:12 do you think games are best? Oct 04 22:25:21 or functional apps? Oct 04 22:25:34 i paid $1 for a pee wee herman soundboard app. it was like 9 buttons, and each made a different pee-wee noise Oct 04 22:25:42 LOL Oct 04 22:25:44 hahahaha jbraeg Oct 04 22:25:44 games are kinda oversaturated Oct 04 22:25:51 I wonder how many he sold... Oct 04 22:25:55 Was there a movie theater button? Oct 04 22:26:07 only game i bought was Neuroshima Hex cos i loved the board game Oct 04 22:26:53 oh wait, i got a bunch from some Humble Bundles too if those count Oct 04 22:27:13 tbh, i think there's a huge opportunity in apps that take advantage or rooted devices Oct 04 22:27:15 most of them aren't good Oct 04 22:27:20 shaun413 here is a recent breakdown, money-wise http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/40-developers-made-no-money-their-last-app/2013-09-26 Oct 04 22:27:26 but almost everyone is willing to pay for something if it solves their problem Oct 04 22:27:44 agreed Oct 04 22:27:44 like, for me, if you could make an app that records the android screen, and it works well, i'd pay $10 or more for it Oct 04 22:27:45 * pragma- only releases free and open source apps. Oct 04 22:27:45 yeah, forget about games Oct 04 22:28:09 there's a few on the market, but none work well Oct 04 22:28:12 there are certain apps that make everyday life with a handset so much easier Oct 04 22:28:33 the thing is, walk around outside a bit Oct 04 22:28:37 look at how many people are on their phones Oct 04 22:28:46 and think to yourself "what are they freaking doing?" Oct 04 22:28:57 "outside"? Oct 04 22:29:04 hm Oct 04 22:29:14 they are texting Oct 04 22:29:16 facebook Oct 04 22:29:17 twitter Oct 04 22:29:20 :) Oct 04 22:29:34 writing reviews about a restaraunt their at Oct 04 22:29:42 looking for a restaurant to go later that night Oct 04 22:29:44 movie reviews Oct 04 22:29:51 reading the local news Oct 04 22:29:53 sounds like they can't use their head Oct 04 22:29:57 they do tons of stuff Oct 04 22:30:08 tons of - wasting time, yeah Oct 04 22:30:13 wasting time is the killer app Oct 04 22:30:27 hmm Oct 04 22:30:28 avoiding real life, because a virtual one is much "better" Oct 04 22:30:28 I gtg Oct 04 22:30:30 Ill bbl Oct 04 22:30:36 um Oct 04 22:30:37 ok Oct 04 22:36:31 anyone know roughly when the next IntelliJ major release is ? Oct 04 22:45:26 i have an activity (relativelayout) with two framelayouts for fragments (the frames are in a linearlayout, though this doesn't seem necessary). I can't center the two fragments in the activity Oct 04 22:45:52 fragments aren't UI objects Oct 04 22:45:57 their views require a container Oct 04 22:46:28 g00s, december Oct 04 22:46:52 Zharf is this the perl joke :) "Before xmas" … "which xmas?" … :D Oct 04 22:46:54 JakeWharton, that why they are in FrameLayoputs Oct 04 22:47:21 g00s: between tomorrow and when the sun explodes Oct 04 22:47:37 bitkiller: so... you were just making a statement then? Oct 04 22:47:39 exactly, so around the time the big perl release Oct 04 22:47:55 no, i have a problem Oct 04 22:48:38 g00s, http://confluence.jetbrains.com/display/IDEADEV/IDEA+13+EAP Oct 04 22:48:49 "IntelliJ IDEA 13 is major update of IntelliJ IDEA, to be released at December of 2013." Oct 04 22:49:01 Today I released my first android app http://goo.gl/lYJaGA , feedbacks are welcomed :) Oct 04 22:49:44 Zharf thanks, thats an interesting page. So all the android support listed … presumably work done in AS Oct 04 22:49:47 g00s, in my experience they tend to release new major versions every december Oct 04 22:50:04 so i guess if you use 13, you will be using some stable snapshot of AS ? Oct 04 22:50:19 maybe thats why 0.2.11 has these release channels Oct 04 22:50:36 gdrc: having the word "english" in italian is a bit strange Oct 04 22:50:57 Im back Oct 04 22:51:04 shaun from the dead ! Oct 04 22:51:15 well Im not so dead Oct 04 22:52:47 RyanM: pardon? Oct 04 22:53:01 g00s, I never tried AS, but I did try idea13 eap, and it had some cool changes for sure Oct 04 22:53:23 gdrc: use a lighter font Oct 04 22:53:29 JakeWharton you have AS and 13 EAP installed side by side? if so, which do you use more ? Oct 04 22:53:30 gdrc: in your nav drawer Oct 04 22:53:50 g00s: both. AS for gradle, IJ for maven Oct 04 22:54:34 I failed to find any quick solutions to get up and running with gradle so I gave up on it for now Oct 04 22:54:42 not very motivated to check it out -.- Oct 04 22:54:54 Zharf: get motivated Oct 04 22:54:59 bah, why Oct 04 22:55:07 I have maven already <3 Oct 04 22:55:33 I think the idea is that is will be necessary in the future Oct 04 22:55:48 it won't Oct 04 22:55:52 It's too bad the plugin is so bad Oct 04 22:56:02 there's always alternative build methods Oct 04 22:56:32 does AS use jetgradle? Oct 04 22:56:50 Zharf: well I don't think I can go back after using it now. Perhaps I'm just projecting Oct 04 22:56:53 d= Oct 04 22:57:06 (despite its current shortcomings Oct 04 22:57:12 dcow, yeah well, that's me and my maven experience as well ;) Oct 04 22:57:27 dcow: mmmh maybe becouse of the contrast (white text on black background) Oct 04 22:57:49 don't get me wrong, I love maven, but do you enjoy writing xml Oct 04 22:58:12 i rather have a few extra < > then this dsl Oct 04 22:58:17 I don't mind xml, it's also super fast to write in IDEA Oct 04 22:58:46 what type of app do you think may be succesfull? Oct 04 22:58:50 gdrc: no the default text is horrible. there's no device kerning on android. you have to use one of the lighter fonts that is hacked to look decent on android (aka roboto) Oct 04 22:59:12 dcow really ? Oct 04 22:59:16 (gdrc: not specific to your app) Oct 04 22:59:32 is hinting turned off or something ? thats like linux in 2005 Oct 04 22:59:54 g00s: yes android does not do kerning. Oct 04 22:59:55 I preferred linux in 2005 Oct 04 22:59:57 * g00s remembers recompiling freetype all the time Oct 04 23:00:07 dcow: so you mean all app texts and not only navdrawer? Oct 04 23:00:49 gdrc yeah. the heavier font is actually okay for nav elements Oct 04 23:01:06 g00s: have you ever wondered why basic android apps with text look so unprofessional? Oct 04 23:01:14 hello, I'm just setting up my Android environment using IntelliJ, but whenever I try to compile I get "ADB not responding. You can wait more, or kill "adb" process manually and click 'Restart'". I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. Oct 04 23:01:23 I want to compile and run an emulation of my app on my Mac. Oct 04 23:01:30 I have tried doing 'adb stop-server' in the terminal. That doesn't help. Oct 04 23:01:34 dcow, I never noticced... Oct 04 23:01:38 dcow: ok thanks for feedback Oct 04 23:01:44 -c Oct 04 23:02:05 anyone have an idea for a simpler first app I could make? Oct 04 23:02:10 dcow hmm, what can be done about it ? Oct 04 23:02:35 dcow, can you provide an example screenshot Oct 04 23:02:39 shaun413: it seems like a todo list is the defacto standard for first apps Oct 04 23:02:43 of this unprofessional look Oct 04 23:02:45 g00s: not much unfortunately. we are actually considering packaging our own freetype Oct 04 23:02:50 shaun413, make one that displays "hello world" Oct 04 23:02:52 hmm Oct 04 23:02:54 well Oct 04 23:03:00 now, isnt that a bit too simple? Oct 04 23:03:09 dcow render all your text to pngs :D Oct 04 23:03:13 * g00s runs Oct 04 23:03:14 if it's too simple, it shoudn't take you long ;) Oct 04 23:03:42 Zharf: you need to see it side by side (unless you have a super design eye) Oct 04 23:03:55 g00s: run faster Oct 04 23:04:03 :) Oct 04 23:04:05 I think my app looks just fine with its text fields! Oct 04 23:04:08 where can I find some tutorials? Oct 04 23:04:32 but then who cares, it's not about the looks Oct 04 23:04:43 Zharf: I'm talking about block of text. it's less noticeable in short text Oct 04 23:04:53 Zharf: publishing cares Oct 04 23:05:05 Zharf: it's actually something you take for granted Oct 04 23:05:13 dcow, I publish my apps, I odn't care! ;) Oct 04 23:05:28 http://eclipser.xmms2.org/xmmsclient-android/device-2013-05-14-153446.png there's a bunch of text here :) Oct 04 23:05:48 Zharf: when you read a book, when you read text online, when you TeX a document, you are reading text that is meticulously laid out Oct 04 23:06:05 I don't know what meticulous is Oct 04 23:06:30 and frankly, I don't read books or most texts online... and most certainly not TeX documents Oct 04 23:06:50 Zharf: do you know what kerning is Oct 04 23:06:55 I'm talking about printed shit Oct 04 23:06:56 no Oct 04 23:07:03 (facepalm) Oct 04 23:07:55 dcow they should have made it monospaced :) Oct 04 23:08:26 g00s: that's basically what roboto is Oct 04 23:08:34 (google's big secret) Oct 04 23:08:37 hehe Oct 04 23:08:54 roboto is a font that looks good with out the kerning pass because it's mostly monospaced Oct 04 23:09:01 do I need an LLC to make apps? Oct 04 23:09:04 and sell them? Oct 04 23:09:24 i redid the font system for my video game last night Oct 04 23:09:43 Zharf: http://www.magazinedesigning.com/how-to-kern-type/ Oct 04 23:09:46 " Stephen Coles of typographica.org called Roboto “a Four-headed Frankenfont” Oct 04 23:10:09 dcow, it's too long Oct 04 23:10:13 yeah. no one in the publishing industry takes anything on android seriously yet Oct 04 23:10:18 Zharf: get a life Oct 04 23:10:24 do most people devolop for android on linux? Oct 04 23:10:31 but I see no difference between the comparison images Oct 04 23:10:41 dcow the roboto webfont font on d.android.com was killing my eyes; i had to replace that Oct 04 23:10:41 Zharf: http://www.magazinedesigning.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/how-to-kern-typography-51.png Oct 04 23:10:52 how often app statics get udpdate on developer console? Oct 04 23:11:02 gdrc: no idea Oct 04 23:11:06 Zharf: look at that image Oct 04 23:11:08 gdrc i think once per day Oct 04 23:11:15 if you really can't see a difference you're blind Oct 04 23:11:30 dcow, the characters are in different places, other than that there's no difference Oct 04 23:11:46 Zharf: no shit Oct 04 23:12:00 dcow, how is that significant? Oct 04 23:12:22 Zharf: you're are spoiled Oct 04 23:12:32 dcow, how? Oct 04 23:13:05 i package 8,16,32,64 size fonts in white, greys, and black as texture atlas. i find nearest font match in request color (or default to white with opengl blend) and then scale the nearest matching font size to the requested size Oct 04 23:13:30 frankly I don't see the point of it, but whatever Oct 04 23:14:01 Zharf: it's all done to make text easier on the eye Oct 04 23:14:07 Zharf you might see the point, if you had a few pages and recorded the time to read it Oct 04 23:14:23 g00s, I read veery slowly anyway Oct 04 23:14:28 and to play to then natural flow of words Oct 04 23:14:41 I tend to read the same line over and over again because my eyes get lost Oct 04 23:15:16 Zharf: I'm trying to find a side by side of an entire paragraph but it's not easy Oct 04 23:16:09 Zharf: here's a cool article that might make you appreciate it more: http://www.thinkingwithtype.com/contents/text/ Oct 04 23:16:36 can i have an overloaded adapter pull in different types of layout items in my inflation? Oct 04 23:16:42 doing a listview... Oct 04 23:17:34 acidjazz: yes Oct 04 23:17:53 overloaded is not the correct word either Oct 04 23:18:02 dcow, that page is just way too long ;) Oct 04 23:19:58 So if my device doesn't have an unlockable bootloader, does anyone know how I would go about unlocking it? Oct 04 23:20:09 a key Oct 04 23:20:15 #android-root Oct 04 23:20:36 you don't need to unlock a phone's bootloader to root it Oct 04 23:21:06 they are completely unrelated, but I can ask there if you would like Oct 04 23:21:19 I would like. This channel is for app dev Oct 04 23:22:42 BustyLoli-Chan: but you need to root a phone to unlock an unlockable phone's bootloader Oct 04 23:23:13 dcow: implemented? you sure we can do this? Oct 04 23:24:11 acidjazz: getItemViewType/getViewTypeCount .. You can use as many different item layouts as you'd like Oct 04 23:25:20 acidjazz: i have no idea what you're trying to do but it sounds plausible Oct 04 23:25:36 Does anyone know of a way to load a glibc linked driver on android ? Oct 04 23:25:40 Zharf: w/e you clearly don't give one shit Oct 04 23:26:32 dcow, well observed Oct 04 23:26:46 people fuss about the most useless things ;) Oct 04 23:27:05 SimonVT: where is getItemViewType from? Oct 04 23:27:27 Your adapter Oct 04 23:27:43 dcow one of the more fascinating articles i read was about how font type on auto dashboards / interior controls impacts driver performance. Oct 04 23:27:55 Zharf: here's another one: http://www.printmag.com/featured/the-kerning-game/ Oct 04 23:28:36 Zharf: it's a game maybe you'll like that Oct 04 23:28:44 g00s: really? do you have a link? Oct 04 23:29:43 dcow http://phys.org/news/2012-10-smoother-dashboard-typefaces-driver-safety.html Oct 04 23:36:27 I was just asked to sign an NDA before someone would tell me what they wanted me to develop. Oct 04 23:36:34 I honestly can't believe people still try that. Oct 04 23:36:48 Nilium did you say no ? Oct 04 23:36:58 Yes. Immediately. Oct 04 23:37:00 anyone here use kivy for development? Oct 04 23:37:08 I do not sign anything if they're not up front with me. Oct 04 23:37:12 the last NDA i signed a few days ago, wasn't really about the project - i just couldn't discuss the parties Oct 04 23:37:44 well, in general, a lot of noobies ask for NDAs when they don't even have a concrete idea Oct 04 23:38:02 if their plain isn't actionable or concrete, then, no nda should be required ;) Oct 04 23:38:07 anyone? Oct 04 23:38:11 and most of the time nobody has a good plan :D Oct 04 23:51:36 dcow so is Roboto a square grotesque design ? Oct 04 23:53:23 I just don't sign NDAs if people won't trust me. It's a terrible way to start anything. Oct 04 23:55:38 what people want you to sign NDAs? Oct 04 23:55:43 are you treating corporations as people? Oct 04 23:56:09 oh i see scroll lol Oct 04 23:56:51 NDA = Nilium Doesn't Approve Oct 04 23:57:17 * JimmyCarter faxes Nilium "NDA" written in green crayon Oct 04 23:57:38 i need your response notorized Oct 04 23:58:30 notarized* Oct 05 00:04:54 SimonVT/dcow: thank you :) Oct 05 00:05:02 oh man i ate too fast Oct 05 00:06:28 acidreflux Oct 05 00:15:55 what does "library = true" mean in dagger? Oct 05 00:21:21 jaynewstrom: Things are provided that are used by classes not listed in injects={} Oct 05 00:21:52 JakeWharton: is it generally better to use injects? Or is it better to just be lazy? Performance implications? Oct 05 00:22:00 Does that make sense? Oct 05 00:22:15 I am try to use library, but the library will not installed to app. I have add the library to gradle build script. I always got this exception "ClassNotFoundException" when I try to run the app on devices. I have do "gradle clean" and "gradle assemble", but nothing work. :( Can any help me. I am try to use this lib: https://github.com/nhaarman/ListViewAnimations Oct 05 00:22:17 yes. it does make sense. Oct 05 00:22:42 jaynewstrom: Zero performance. It's all about static analysis at compile time. Oct 05 00:23:08 ahhh, makes sense. Thanks. Oct 05 00:23:39 How the reference uses : SharedPreferences mPrefs = getSharedPreferences(); here : http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html#SavingPersistentState when getSharedPreferences(String name, int mode) needs a String and an int parameter ? :/ Oct 05 00:24:01 unless I'm missing something, I'm new with android and java! Oct 05 00:26:37 seems like an error in documentation Oct 05 00:30:04 Hi Oct 05 00:30:13 do you think app dev is actually profitable? Oct 05 00:32:06 Probably not, no. Oct 05 00:32:42 hmm why not? Oct 05 00:33:11 Well, depends on your idea of profitable. Oct 05 00:33:23 I've technically made enough off app sales to cover my app's development. Oct 05 00:33:34 cover? Oct 05 00:33:57 Yes. As in I made enough that it was worth developing. Oct 05 00:34:15 so is it possible to make a couple thousand per app? Oct 05 00:34:31 Over enough time, possibly. Oct 05 00:34:49 hmm Oct 05 00:34:49 hi, I am getting in developer console in the APK section : Unexpected error validating your APK configuration. so what i should do? Oct 05 00:35:01 Most apps are free on the Android market Oct 05 00:35:05 Does it give you anything else? Oct 05 00:35:06 right Oct 05 00:35:08 and have adds Oct 05 00:35:21 I dunno, I'm skeptical about ads Oct 05 00:35:32 I prefer not to use them because I don't like them Oct 05 00:35:45 And if I don't like it, I obviously don't want to subject people to it Oct 05 00:35:52 My app is not getting enough exposure Oct 05 00:35:56 hmm Oct 05 00:35:58 and people complain from ads, while we make a little money of! Oct 05 00:35:59 Unless I just decide to up and hate my users. Oct 05 00:36:02 Nilium, how do I exposure? Oct 05 00:36:10 CocoStorm: Take off your clothes. Oct 05 00:36:15 open your trench coat Oct 05 00:36:27 * CocoStorm starts taking off his clothes Oct 05 00:36:34 ew, put them back on Oct 05 00:36:41 buy my app first Oct 05 00:36:42 jk Oct 05 00:37:21 my app was featured on gizmodo and techcrunch and it's still doing terribly Oct 05 00:37:29 so shaun413 don't expect much Oct 05 00:37:47 what kind of app was it? Oct 05 00:37:56 You have to feature your app on the bottoms of sweatpants and get hot girls to wear them. Oct 05 00:38:09 honestly most news stories are only with a day or 2 boost at best Oct 05 00:38:16 TheBunny, http://gizmodo.com/numbersnap-for-android-secretly-snap-pics-and-never-fo-886872090 Oct 05 00:38:42 It was a joke app that I just wanted to put up on the market so I can just say I have one on the market when applying for jobs Oct 05 00:38:52 :D Oct 05 00:38:55 good idea Oct 05 00:38:58 and it got featured Oct 05 00:39:00 good job Oct 05 00:39:06 Thanks Oct 05 00:39:32 yeah, so you snap pictures of people making that face where they're trying to type something into a touchscreen? genius. Oct 05 00:39:40 I'm trying to integrate facebook and it's almost ready but facebook has a bug they need to fix first Oct 05 00:39:56 pragma-, but.. that face is priceless Oct 05 00:41:09 my friend is doing the iOS version but we're still waiting on apple to accept it Oct 05 00:41:14 we're not sure they will.. Oct 05 00:41:16 for good reasons Oct 05 00:41:17 lol Oct 05 00:41:24 i'm sure that at least half of the time there will be a ceiling light or other bright light source behind the person, making them a sillihoute Oct 05 00:41:45 or other awkward lightning issues Oct 05 00:41:50 one more from the docs. "One example of when onPause() and onStop() is called and not this method is when a user navigates back from activity B to activity A: there is no need to call onSaveInstanceState(Bundle) on B because that particular instance will never be restored, so the system avoids calling it". But that's the point of onSaveInstaceState() , to restore a killed instance. Oct 05 00:42:05 doing horriblew how? Oct 05 00:42:12 pragma-, true, that is one of the problems. Here's to hoping a front flash would catch on :P Oct 05 00:42:13 this method = onSaveInstanceState() http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html#onSaveInstanceState(android.os.Bundle) Oct 05 00:42:26 front flashes aren't exactly stealthy Oct 05 00:42:51 "what was that?" "What was what?" Oct 05 00:42:58 >.> Oct 05 00:42:59 <.< Oct 05 00:43:15 "sunlight reflecting off a passing car, just ignore it" Oct 05 00:43:47 haha Oct 05 00:44:23 ...from A go to B and then press back and go to A. Why there's no need to call onSaveInstanceState() ? Oct 05 00:44:58 In webview, saveWebArchive functionality keeps a reference to every image that has been loaded. Thus after a few hundred full screen sized images, I run out of memory. Is there any way to make webview not keep these references? Oct 05 00:45:12 * teo123 talking to himslef :) Oct 05 00:45:37 so developing apps is a waste of my time then? Oct 05 00:45:57 teo123: what are you asking? Oct 05 00:46:20 Trufax, "One example of when onPause() and onStop() is called and not this method is when a user navigates back from activity B to activity A: there is no need to call onSaveInstanceState(Bundle) on B because that particular instance will never be restored, so the system avoids calling it". But that's the point of onSaveInstaceState() , to restore a killed instance. Oct 05 00:46:31 shaun413, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish Oct 05 00:46:40 I want to make some money Oct 05 00:46:56 teo123: onSaveInstanceState is more for dealing with configuration and orientation changes Oct 05 00:47:06 Trufax, if I go back from B to A I want to keep some values right ? Oct 05 00:47:27 just in case I return to B again... Oct 05 00:47:28 shaun413, well, you could make pocket money that's for sure Oct 05 00:47:35 pocket money? Oct 05 00:47:44 that is different for a lot of people Oct 05 00:47:50 depends - what are you trying to keep on B Oct 05 00:48:21 also, how is the system to know that B is the same B that you were going to as before? there's no continuity from one instance of B to another in this case Oct 05 00:48:23 I'm just making an example and want to keep the position of a radiobutton Oct 05 00:48:35 well, just pass that radio button's value into B from A Oct 05 00:48:57 shaun413, and 'some money' is pretty vague Oct 05 00:49:05 it is Oct 05 00:49:13 10s? 100s? 1000? 10000s? Oct 05 00:49:13 it's not impossible, but you probably won't make a living out of it Oct 05 00:49:45 that's one solution I guess... Oct 05 00:49:45 again for some people a living is 20k Oct 05 00:49:54 for others its 100k Oct 05 00:50:59 yes, it's all relative but 20k is what it is. It's a living and that's what you probably won't be getting Oct 05 00:51:03 Trufax, I understand what u are saying about no continuity but the docs say: "Called to retrieve per-instance state from an activity before being killed so that the state can be restored in onCreate(Bundle) " Oct 05 00:51:11 shaun413, why not just learn to develop apps Oct 05 00:51:19 make some money and find a good developer job? Oct 05 00:51:21 i could Oct 05 00:51:26 but is it worth my time Oct 05 00:51:29 Im an ECE amjor Oct 05 00:51:31 major Oct 05 00:51:50 Id rather not work for other people in the long run Oct 05 00:52:47 Yeah me too Oct 05 00:52:59 teo123: like I said, that is for when the Activity is trashed due to events like turning the device Oct 05 00:53:16 when you regenerate the Activity, not navigate away then back Oct 05 00:53:45 so CocoStorm how much is "pocket money"? Oct 05 00:53:46 ok thats clear thanks! :) Oct 05 00:53:46 it's not meant to be a sort of static value store Oct 05 00:54:03 because there's nothing tying one instance of the class to another in the case of navigating away from the activity, then back Oct 05 00:54:18 so "being killed" means to navigate away from the activity. Oct 05 00:54:28 "so developing apps is a waste of my time then" Mostly yes Oct 05 00:54:36 go work for other people make x1000 more ;) Oct 05 00:54:39 on avereage Oct 05 00:55:14 lol Oct 05 00:55:21 TRUTH Oct 05 00:55:22 Trufax, thnx for ur patience and your answers! Oct 05 00:55:25 shaun413, you'll need a team to develop anything that would get you some serious cash :D Oct 05 00:55:31 im looking for something to make x1000 more than working for other people Oct 05 00:55:31 * TheBunny been at all this since day 1 Oct 05 00:55:40 see "In addition, the method onSaveInstanceState(Bundle) is called before..." Oct 05 00:55:41 on the dox Oct 05 00:55:44 theres a wonderful bubble in making things for other people Oct 05 00:55:45 ;p Oct 05 00:55:59 good luck :P Oct 05 00:56:00 ? Oct 05 00:56:41 Trufax yeap its clear. I just got confused from the : "Called to retrieve per-instance state from an activity before being killed so that the state can be restored in onCreate(Bundle) " Oct 05 00:56:55 most mobile apps fail :) Oct 05 00:56:59 I mean can I make a couple grand doing it in my spare time? Oct 05 00:57:04 no Oct 05 00:57:06 see the detailed explanation for onPause() Oct 05 00:57:08 probably not Oct 05 00:57:09 hm Oct 05 00:57:20 I blame Play store's seo Oct 05 00:57:38 seo? Oct 05 00:57:44 you might find a niche etc shaun413 Oct 05 00:57:53 But if you just make simple apps… well anyone can Oct 05 00:58:43 hmm Oct 05 00:58:52 what did you want to make? Oct 05 00:58:56 the key is to write *lots* of apps Oct 05 00:59:03 SPAM apps .. Oct 05 00:59:10 yeah thats worked in the past for some people.. Oct 05 00:59:18 not sure thats still viable Oct 05 00:59:33 hmm Oct 05 00:59:38 I really didnt have any idea Oct 05 00:59:40 maybe a game Oct 05 00:59:49 games are a horribly hard market ;) Oct 05 00:59:55 probably worse then everything else Oct 05 00:59:58 whats an easier market? Oct 05 01:00:11 Tho word games and rather dumb easy games Oct 05 01:00:13 seem to do well Oct 05 01:00:16 the reason for writing lots of apps isn't so much to just spam the market with lots of low-revenue apps Oct 05 01:00:20 but just to keep iterating Oct 05 01:00:30 rather than getting bogged down on any one idea for too long Oct 05 01:00:35 ahh Oct 05 01:00:49 how long does one app usually take? Oct 05 01:00:52 depends Oct 05 01:00:54 yeah don't waste time unless you really want to make a high end game.. Oct 05 01:00:59 naw Oct 05 01:01:06 well, kindaw Oct 05 01:01:12 ages.. Oct 05 01:01:21 anywhere from a few weeks Oct 05 01:01:26 most people I know doing games made big money off 1 or 2… but just kept trying till somthing stuck Oct 05 01:01:26 to a year or more Oct 05 01:01:27 shaun413, define app :) Oct 05 01:01:38 depending on skill, complexity, and how much amphetamine is in your head stash Oct 05 01:01:40 soemthing to put on the market Oct 05 01:01:46 Other friends settled on a niche after many tries and are now making 1m$ off ads Oct 05 01:01:58 TheBunny, really? Oct 05 01:02:06 TheBunny, do ads really work? Oct 05 01:02:07 my point is just that it's hard to know what works w/o trying a lot of things Oct 05 01:02:14 TheBunny, I'm thinking about putting NumberSnap for free Oct 05 01:02:16 lol Oct 05 01:02:21 Ads CAN work... Oct 05 01:02:45 the ones making a lot of money on IOS at least are CLICK TO INstall some other companies F2P game Oct 05 01:02:55 I'm just waiting for facebook to fix their bug cos the next update will seriously make the app Oct 05 01:02:55 these pay like 3-10$ per install Oct 05 01:02:59 vs normal ads Oct 05 01:03:10 CPI is hard to get doe Oct 05 01:03:18 and those companies will *always* fuck you Oct 05 01:03:23 the bigger the company, the harder they will fuck you Oct 05 01:03:27 also your app should be designed around ads in general and probably having them on screen all the time etc Oct 05 01:03:38 they'll offer $10 CPI and underreport the actual installs by 10-50% Oct 05 01:03:46 lol Oct 05 01:03:53 and then theres that crap… sigh Oct 05 01:04:00 hmm Oct 05 01:04:19 at least, that one company with that dog in the logo is notoriously bad about it Oct 05 01:04:32 but so is that one bejeweled cutesy clone that's been popular Oct 05 01:05:17 Does anyone know why iFruit hasn't come out on Android yet? Do R* lack android developers ? Oct 05 01:05:19 :P Oct 05 01:05:37 omgggggggggggggggggggggggggg Oct 05 01:05:41 ? Oct 05 01:05:47 i hate T-Mobile/EE proxy servers Oct 05 01:06:05 eh? Oct 05 01:06:20 i've spent my Friday evening locating the direct cause of a bug, and its in the network providers software Oct 05 01:06:28 :( Oct 05 01:06:31 who made iFruit? Oct 05 01:06:34 Was that inhouse? Oct 05 01:07:00 So we are getting ready to ship ESO.. and mobile apps is pretty much LAST on the list of things to do Oct 05 01:07:06 It's the GTA V app Oct 05 01:07:18 official app that is assocaited with the game Oct 05 01:07:54 oh nvm Oct 05 01:07:55 lol Oct 05 01:08:00 ? Oct 05 01:54:28 hi, I am getting in developer console in the APK section : Unexpected error validating your APK configuration. so what i should do? Oct 05 01:55:39 hello peeps. Oct 05 02:02:46 hello Oct 05 02:02:47 :) Oct 05 02:02:52 peep Oct 05 02:05:41 After talking with various folks, it turns out nobody I know has a non-black-or-white opinion of NDAs Oct 05 02:06:05 Seems it's either completely love or completely hate. Oct 05 02:06:24 ok Oct 05 02:06:42 and in regard to what? Oct 05 02:07:04 Was in regard to my opinion of someone asking me to sign an NDA before they'd say anything more than "I need an app that talks to a database" Oct 05 02:07:19 yup its stupid :) Oct 05 02:07:36 on th eother hand as a contractor it might be perfectly safe Oct 05 02:07:39 to just sign them all Oct 05 02:07:57 I decided to just turn it down because it sounded so completely iffy from the get-go Oct 05 02:08:15 yeah normally OMG YOU HAVE TO SIGN an NDA is a RED FLAG TO RUN Oct 05 02:08:23 aka they don't know what they are doing Oct 05 02:08:33 now if they are backed by 5 million $ Oct 05 02:08:39 I might change my mind etc Oct 05 02:08:45 Like the guy clearly had no experience actually talking to a developer. Oct 05 02:08:54 Well, he definitely wasn't backed by that. Oct 05 02:09:14 Nilium: honestly I had like 5 recruitment offers this week... Oct 05 02:09:32 Theres way to much mobile work out there Oct 05 02:09:34 I know he had investors, but I also know he seemed strange. Oct 05 02:09:58 go with your gut Oct 05 02:10:02 I'm not that worried about work. I'm just more enthusiastic about working for Home Depot than I am in taking every random programming job. Oct 05 02:10:04 run far away :) Oct 05 02:10:20 Home Depot is GIANT Oct 05 02:10:29 on th elist of biggest companies world wide Oct 05 02:10:32 I mean in the retail stuff. Oct 05 02:10:33 go for that :D Oct 05 02:10:37 Oh really? Oct 05 02:10:38 Not as an engineer for them. Oct 05 02:10:42 awww Oct 05 02:10:50 so floor sales? Oct 05 02:11:00 Pretty much. Oct 05 02:11:01 I assume enginneering would pay a lot more Oct 05 02:11:25 would you enjoy it? Oct 05 02:11:30 Probably, but I'm trying to take things easy while I try to fix my weird psychological problems. Oct 05 02:11:40 Probably re: paying more. Oct 05 02:11:41 ah good idea Oct 05 02:11:59 Your health should come first Oct 05 02:12:00 'Cause $10 per hour is a lot worse than any salary. Oct 05 02:12:00 Like, any salary, ever. Oct 05 02:12:34 how old are you? Oct 05 02:12:42 24. I've got time. Oct 05 02:12:46 yeah Oct 05 02:12:50 your ok Oct 05 02:13:18 I'm crazy and have anxiety issues, so I want to see about fixing that before I throw myself into a job that'd probably have me going off the deep end. Oct 05 02:13:31 DRUGS WORK GREAT ! Oct 05 02:13:36 Well, fixing or at least finding ways to deal with it. Oct 05 02:14:04 So my other 1/2 is in family practice,,,, Oct 05 02:14:21 and has been on anti anxiety meds since like age 19 Oct 05 02:14:25 Im know all about this :) Oct 05 02:14:27 in depth Oct 05 02:14:45 a few other friends are on them long term. Oct 05 02:14:52 BTW do you get outside in the sun much? Oct 05 02:14:52 Yeah, I used to be on meds. Working with a counselor now to try to fix my thinking if I can. Oct 05 02:15:22 Not too much, but everyone here has to take vitamin D supplements because the sun barely shows itself in the first place. Oct 05 02:15:29 Im gonna make a suggestion that you get your Vit D levels checked all if you stay inside a lot… Oct 05 02:15:31 ok good Oct 05 02:15:39 you should then also Oct 05 02:15:59 I had anxiety issues a few years ago for the first time in my life ever… after a friend died. Oct 05 02:16:17 I had also switched to a AAA game studio job and was getting like no sun Oct 05 02:16:21 Well, I already take the vitamin D supplements because there's no harm in it even if I didn't need it. Oct 05 02:16:23 turned out my D was at 8 Oct 05 02:16:37 after boosting it all the anxieght went away in like a month Oct 05 02:16:39 And I probably do need it. Oct 05 02:16:52 get a blood test its the onlyt way to know Oct 05 02:16:59 I take about 6000 units these days Oct 05 02:17:14 Nice thing about vitamin D is that'd have a really hard time overdoing it. Oct 05 02:17:15 to maintain a good level Oct 05 02:17:26 Yes VERY safe Oct 05 02:17:39 if you take like 12000 a day for a year you might have issues ;) Oct 05 02:17:57 I think even then you'd have a hard time actually harming yourself, though. Oct 05 02:18:01 Your body just disposes of it. Oct 05 02:18:06 no it stores it Oct 05 02:18:08 in FAT Oct 05 02:18:29 but a few hours in the sun can generate like 20,000 units Oct 05 02:18:34 Not exactly. Excess vitamin D leaves via your skin, if I remember right. Oct 05 02:18:38 It very hard to take to much Oct 05 02:19:04 having read hundreds of studies … do you want to bet on that? ;) Oct 05 02:19:09 Been a while since I did the reading though. At any rate, what I do remember is that it was nearly impossible to harm yourself with it. Oct 05 02:19:16 plus I just put my GF through med schooll Oct 05 02:19:45 Do you sleep well? Oct 05 02:19:58 actually, i think taking too much D can be dangerous if you aren't taking it with K. usually things must be in balance. Oct 05 02:20:04 I sleep well enough, just at weird hours. Oct 05 02:20:08 ok good Oct 05 02:20:09 Which I'm fixing. Oct 05 02:20:36 My sleep schedule got screwed after I finished my degree and had no schedule. Oct 05 02:20:44 most meds effect sleep and melitionin levels and all that snow balls into the rest Oct 05 02:20:55 Whats your degree in? Oct 05 02:21:01 English, writing. Oct 05 02:21:04 :) Oct 05 02:21:16 D3 +K2 is very good Oct 05 02:21:28 i use mk7 Oct 05 02:21:29 the K2 moves the calcium to the bones Oct 05 02:21:40 Mk4 or MK7 yes Oct 05 02:21:41 yeah, don't want it in your arteries Oct 05 02:21:44 In other words, I can communicate pretty well in writing. Oct 05 02:22:20 g00s: you are the only other person I have met who even knows about this :D Oct 05 02:23:00 If you live in an area without much sun, you are almost guaranteed to at least know about vitamin D supplements. Oct 05 02:23:16 In the US most people get D from milk etc Oct 05 02:23:18 Anything more detailed: most likely no. Oct 05 02:23:19 as its added Oct 05 02:23:32 Ah, yeah, I also specifically buy the vitamin D milk as well. Oct 05 02:23:42 shoudl be in all of it? Oct 05 02:23:57 TheBunny actually, this is the K i use http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01724/Super-K-with-Advanced-K2-Complex.html Oct 05 02:24:00 sorry I mean in the US only Oct 05 02:24:43 most of the cheap supplements here aren't even using D3 Oct 05 02:25:12 g00s: looks good to me if you take that daily.. most of the K1 is probably not a big deal Oct 05 02:25:24 Not in all milk. Oct 05 02:25:29 all the studies are on high levels of K2 Oct 05 02:25:34 It's only in milk that says it has vitamin D. Oct 05 02:25:36 TheBunny up until very recently, the advice is, UV light was a carcinogen, and that there was no safe sun exposure. so wear sunscreen and take D. but i read a few months ago that UV light does something positive to the endothelium Oct 05 02:25:49 g00s: are you in the US? Oct 05 02:25:55 yeah, i'm in AZ Oct 05 02:26:05 second in skin cancer only to Australia Oct 05 02:26:10 Anyone used GrenDAO with android studio to generate the DAO files? Oct 05 02:26:18 ok you should not see other forms of D but D3 out there Oct 05 02:26:29 Its new in multi vitamins. Oct 05 02:28:17 g00s: I use http://www.amazon.com/Carlson-Labs-Vitamin-K-2-Capsules/dp/B003B3P4I6/ref=sr_1_7?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1380940074&sr=1-7&keywords=vitamin+k2 Oct 05 02:28:26 large does of K2 in theory... Oct 05 02:28:44 thanks, looking at it. i use one of their fish oils i think Oct 05 02:29:07 basically all i take is a multi, mag citrate, d, k, fish oil Oct 05 02:29:11 between that and D3 + prescription fish oil I have dropped my cholesterol levels very low… TG are border line now. Oct 05 02:29:14 AH genetics ;) Oct 05 02:29:19 :) Oct 05 02:29:27 man, nutrigenomics is interesting Oct 05 02:29:29 TG == 700... Oct 05 02:29:34 some.. Oct 05 02:29:44 TheBunny did you try creating for TG ? Oct 05 02:29:48 *creatine Oct 05 02:29:51 after my friend died of a sudden heart attack I read hundreds of studies... Oct 05 02:29:59 no I have not. Oct 05 02:30:08 i'm sure you cut the simple carbs ;) Oct 05 02:30:19 perscription fish oil is well proven to cut it my X% as needed Oct 05 02:30:20 sounds like you know what you're doing Oct 05 02:30:28 I did lose weight… will have to se.. Oct 05 02:30:40 hello everyone Oct 05 02:30:41 see…. took a year to get it all pretty well under contoll Oct 05 02:30:53 high Arpx Oct 05 02:30:55 Nilium and for you, about sleep (today, on HN heh) http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin Oct 05 02:31:06 * Nilium doesn't read HN. Oct 05 02:31:17 It's startup fanfiction/masturbation. Doesn't sit well with me. Oct 05 02:31:29 dwhtas up Oct 05 02:31:35 ok, forget HN, see the article Oct 05 02:31:49 arpx: Don't know, but I think you might be kind of completely drunk Oct 05 02:31:52 i keep reading these gadgets at night are messing our sleep up Oct 05 02:32:04 thats the theory Oct 05 02:32:14 i was going to get a red head lamp and maybe orange glasses, even though i use f.lux Oct 05 02:32:16 At least with screens etc I think it been proven a bit Oct 05 02:32:23 yeah Oct 05 02:32:37 but honestly after age 30 melitonin level just drop.. .like 50%... Oct 05 02:33:17 Theres some interesting studies on giving rats large does… and they lose weight etc and metabolism speeds up about 7%... Oct 05 02:33:31 no studies on humans for that yet tho Oct 05 02:33:49 plenty for anxiety and depression. tho Oct 05 02:34:08 TheBunny have you prescribed to Consumer Labs by any chance? i got a bit more skeptical of things after that - more from the quality standpoint. seems like a lot of source is contaminated , etc Oct 05 02:34:14 no Oct 05 02:34:16 s/prescribed/subscribed Oct 05 02:34:23 I have seen it... Oct 05 02:34:30 so thats why i keep things really simple Oct 05 02:34:36 I do get prevention magazine some times they test things also. Oct 05 02:35:05 i got kinda freaked out when they test all the whey protein , which had cadmium Oct 05 02:35:11 hm Oct 05 02:35:11 After reading like 500 studies I have only come up with viable data for like 5? vitamins :) Oct 05 02:35:17 uggg Oct 05 02:35:23 i think one company does most of the whey, so it made sense Oct 05 02:35:29 optimal nutrition Oct 05 02:35:33 (ON) Oct 05 02:35:38 that makes sense Oct 05 02:35:43 Reminds me, need to reinstall flux Oct 05 02:35:53 makes you wonder about milk etc tho :) Oct 05 02:36:06 I don't remember if they take donations or not.. Oct 05 02:36:14 TheBunny i'm trying to consume stuff low on the food chain ;) Oct 05 02:36:30 mostly plant based, eat lots of kale Oct 05 02:36:33 probably a good idea… Oct 05 02:36:40 I try not to worry about somthing.. Oct 05 02:36:44 I love sushi Oct 05 02:36:57 I will try and effect things I can and still have a good life. Oct 05 02:37:18 Only annoying thing about flux is it slows down while changing screen color Oct 05 02:37:32 Kale is king plant Oct 05 02:37:34 Slows down the system, that is Oct 05 02:37:36 I really to grow em :( Oct 05 02:37:41 * TheBunny has a tabby cat suddenly Oct 05 02:38:00 * Nilium has a ragdoll siamese cat and it's incredibly annoying because it's very friendly Oct 05 02:38:11 thast a mix? Oct 05 02:38:21 CAT LET ME CODE DAMMIT! Oct 05 02:38:22 ;) Oct 05 02:38:42 Nilium have you seen an app for Mac that does anything like this ? http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/09/laptop-battery/ Oct 05 02:38:46 There are tons of weird mixes Oct 05 02:38:52 i couldn't find anything, neither could the editor. Oct 05 02:38:52 god almost every IRC channel is dead tonight Oct 05 02:39:17 i remember my shitty windowd laptop at work let you control the charge on the battery Oct 05 02:39:26 Does anything like what? Oct 05 02:39:42 keep your mac battery charged at a certain %, like 40% Oct 05 02:39:53 so its not always getting topped off at 100% Oct 05 02:40:11 meh I have many macs and no real issues since they went to the non replaceable designs Oct 05 02:40:20 my battery is swelling Oct 05 02:40:29 i need to replace it; pressing up against the trackpad Oct 05 02:40:30 each battery lasts 2 or more years now Oct 05 02:40:49 g00s: ok thats a real bug… a lot of those are warrentee issues Oct 05 02:41:01 maybe they can fix it ;) Oct 05 02:41:15 yes check... Oct 05 02:41:19 might be free Oct 05 02:41:32 heck MBA gen 1 screens were free for years :D Oct 05 02:41:41 webcal://www.apple.com/batteries/images/notebook_icalreminder.ics ← There's this, but it's not to keep the battery in a specific range. Oct 05 02:42:07 yeah, i got the impression the SMC did this; there were no api hooks Oct 05 02:42:09 Apple will replace batteries if they swell before reaching so many cycles Oct 05 02:42:16 you shoudl not have to recondition modern batteries Oct 05 02:42:48 I believe they told me the limit before battery replacement isn't free was 80-ish cycles Oct 05 02:43:03 I had one battery go well before that, so they were like "yeah that's weird have a battery" Oct 05 02:43:10 * TheBunny speaking of macs I shipped off all the code for the first mac ESO beta today! Oct 05 02:43:58 * TheBunny please someone buy it Oct 05 02:44:25 TheBunny mac ESO beta ? Oct 05 02:44:32 ask google Oct 05 02:45:02 I refuse to explain anymore ;) Oct 05 02:45:11 oh i see Oct 05 02:46:17 Friend of mine works at Bethesda. He seems pretty happy there. Oct 05 02:46:35 Assuming ESO is the ESO I'm thinking of. Oct 05 02:46:39 Nilium: Surely he is... Oct 05 02:46:58 ESO = elder scroll online ? Oct 05 02:47:37 Nilium: he works at Bethesda proper/ Oct 05 02:47:38 ? Oct 05 02:47:47 g00s: yes Oct 05 02:47:51 Yes. Oct 05 02:48:10 doing what? Oct 05 02:48:15 Artist. Oct 05 02:48:18 k Oct 05 02:48:26 so hes tried betas and likes it? Oct 05 02:48:36 I did game art before I started coding, so most of the people I know are in that part of the industry. Oct 05 02:49:00 I habe an art degree… and Im a lead programmer on ESO. Oct 05 02:49:04 have Oct 05 02:49:23 SO yeah I understand :) Oct 05 02:49:29 I haven't asked him about ESO, I don't really ask him about his work 'cause it's not something I need to know. Oct 05 02:49:59 well he can't talk about most of it :)…. but even hearing hes happy with ESO is a good thing honestly Oct 05 02:50:36 He was on Skyrim, so I figure he's probably happy with anything in the Elder Scrolls series. Oct 05 02:50:46 the studios don't mix enough at the low level so I don;t get a lot of feed back like that… etc Oct 05 02:51:15 I love SkyRim…. ESO is not Skyrim Oct 05 02:51:27 tho its headed that direction over the last year.. Oct 05 02:51:36 and all to good effect Oct 05 02:51:53 TheBunny: SkyRim_ Oct 05 02:51:56 I'll ask him what he thinks of ESO later. Oct 05 02:52:23 cool. tell me . Oct 05 02:52:35 and all honesty is welcome Oct 05 02:53:36 I should try getting back into making game art. Would give me something else to do. Oct 05 02:55:58 shrug honestly its game programmers that are hard to find Oct 05 02:56:02 you should learn both :) Oct 05 02:58:04 and the best indies I know are artists turned programmer Oct 05 02:58:25 TheBunny: That´s probably not good Oct 05 02:58:30 ?? Oct 05 02:59:24 Why? Oct 05 02:59:32 For 1 man game shops? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 05 02:59:58 2013