**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 29 02:59:59 2014 Jun 29 03:00:25 with root, yes Jun 29 03:00:52 p_l: so I need to request root permission from my app? Jun 29 03:01:02 just remember that writing to raw block devices will fuck up the system Jun 29 03:01:16 (you did ask *entire* space) Jun 29 03:01:39 would play-store approve such an app Jun 29 03:01:45 Anybody have a decent textbook for android development? I have a course that has no suggested textbook but says we should have one anyways. Jun 29 03:01:46 or is it not normal practice Jun 29 03:02:30 ajoul: there are apps in play store that use root permissions, yes, but the device needs to first be rooted and thus have usable "su" binary in PATH Jun 29 03:02:31 ajoul: what is it that you're wanting to do? Jun 29 03:02:32 I think Hello Android, is a good first book Jun 29 03:02:46 Drew_ try the Big Nerd one Jun 29 03:03:14 ajoul, play store has no policies against apps requiring root Jun 29 03:03:20 thanks g00s Jun 29 03:03:21 njcomsec Hello Android is … a little … old Jun 29 03:03:26 JesusFreke: edit entire disk space. I am not sure if I understand root permision right but the user has to do nothing more than just click accept on permisions and I can do whatever I want right Jun 29 03:03:33 however, the vast majority of phones are completely unrooted Jun 29 03:03:36 i think they made new versions Jun 29 03:03:38 I wonder what Burnette is doing these days Jun 29 03:03:45 ajoul, no Jun 29 03:03:53 ajoul: to what end? Jun 29 03:03:54 pfn: explain please Jun 29 03:03:56 ajoul, the phone must be rooted first Jun 29 03:04:02 what is rooted? Jun 29 03:04:06 but you are right a new book is good.. since it all changes a lot Jun 29 03:04:14 ajoul, go learn android, root is not an available system permission Jun 29 03:04:23 unless the phone is "hacked" Jun 29 03:04:38 similar to "jailbroken" Jun 29 03:04:49 pfn: ok so how can I address private disk space Jun 29 03:04:55 you cannot Jun 29 03:05:03 that is nuts Jun 29 03:05:15 there should be some permission available Jun 29 03:05:18 what are you trying to achieve Jun 29 03:05:19 no Jun 29 03:05:23 there shouldn't Jun 29 03:05:40 clean the phone from everything, similar to a system restore Jun 29 03:05:44 such a "permission" would be equivalent to root access Jun 29 03:05:46 asking for full disk access is a recipe for malware and corruption Jun 29 03:06:02 pfn: well user has to approve of it Jun 29 03:06:03 ajoul, you have factory reset already Jun 29 03:06:05 so I see nothing wrong Jun 29 03:06:09 ajoul: full system restore can be done by DeviceAdmin applications Jun 29 03:06:22 pfn: That is not the point, what I am trying to do is far more complicated and private to go into detail Jun 29 03:06:29 and factory reset is also available by device admin Jun 29 03:06:56 p_l: hmm? I don't think so. A device admin still can't access other app's data, afaik. Jun 29 03:07:06 JesusFreke, it cannot Jun 29 03:07:12 anyway, you can gain root permissions on "hacked" devices, or you can have your application as system application (involves help from firmware vendor) Jun 29 03:07:32 JesusFreke: Factory reset is however available for Device Admin, which is what I meant Jun 29 03:07:41 Ah, yeah Jun 29 03:07:45 p_l: what if I request all permisions possible Jun 29 03:07:54 what that will give me access to Jun 29 03:08:02 I mean disk-space wise Jun 29 03:08:04 nothing Jun 29 03:08:34 only to your application data and possibly to shared "external" storage (once an sdcard, nowadays often embedded) Jun 29 03:08:39 i created a key using java keystore how do i find where the key is located Jun 29 03:09:05 p_l: sucks so bad... so restrictive Jun 29 03:10:38 p_l: can I make an app that "roots" a phone Jun 29 03:10:41 or is that against TOS Jun 29 03:10:46 it doesn't suck, what you're asking for is unreasonable Jun 29 03:10:59 rooting is not available universally Jun 29 03:11:28 rooting, unless done by the user through flashing, is IMO always a security bug Jun 29 03:11:34 well pfn my users would greatly appreciate the services I offer that require me to have full access to the storage of the phone. There are no malicious intentions Jun 29 03:11:50 ajoul: you can make your own firmware and flash it for them :P Jun 29 03:11:59 they should at least have the freedom to choose Jun 29 03:12:27 ajoul: you can't distribute a rooting app via the play store, no Jun 29 03:12:57 JesusFreke: ok but would it be possible to build a stand-alone app for all the users with no technical background Jun 29 03:13:03 like a run_once rooting app Jun 29 03:13:15 I think there are apps that root your phone. but it doesnt work on all phones Jun 29 03:13:26 ajoul: ideally, no. If you can root the device via an application, it means that the device has a security vulnerability Jun 29 03:13:39 I see Jun 29 03:13:49 well I have seen apps that claim to root Jun 29 03:13:55 never tried them though Jun 29 03:14:04 Yes. They take advantage of security vulnerabilities :) Jun 29 03:14:39 I dont root any of my phones anymore Jun 29 03:14:46 too paranoid Jun 29 03:15:02 njcomsec: you think there is malware in these "rooting" apps Jun 29 03:15:15 I have no idea Jun 29 03:15:19 ajoul: you think there's not? :) Jun 29 03:15:44 ajoul: no, but they definitely open system to malware. That's why normally such permissions are only possible for applications living in /system Jun 29 03:15:48 JesusFreke: can rooting be done manually possibly by connecting the phone to the computer? Jun 29 03:16:12 ajoul: that's how, e.g. nexus devices allow you to flash your phone Jun 29 03:16:17 (and even then the permission has to be properly set when developing the firmware) Jun 29 03:16:33 ajoul: you have to unlock the device, which wipes it, and then you can flash anything you want (i.e. you have "root access") Jun 29 03:16:51 oh ok so is that the debug mode for the device? Jun 29 03:16:52 rooting is not a universal process for all phones Jun 29 03:17:03 debug or developer mode Jun 29 03:17:21 it's not really called a debug or developer mode, no Jun 29 03:17:36 "unlocked bootloader" is probably the most applicable term Jun 29 03:18:01 JesusFreke: ok so it replaces the firm-ware of the phone with a "hacked" one to allow full root access? Jun 29 03:18:29 it allows you to do so, yes Jun 29 03:18:42 once you unlock the bootloader, you can flash whatever firmware you like Jun 29 03:18:55 JesusFreke: unlocking the bootloader is rooting? Jun 29 03:19:13 leading to all sorts of new and interesting ways to damage and destroy your device Jun 29 03:19:14 they're related, but not necessarily the same thing Jun 29 03:19:36 ajoul: do you know what "root" is? Jun 29 03:19:59 Leeds: root access in linux means full permission access Jun 29 03:20:17 If you can modify the firmware, you effectively have root access. But "rooting" is generally used more specifically to flashing a rooted firmware, or otherwise getting actual root access on a device where you didn't have it previously Jun 29 03:20:47 so just unlocking the bootloader isn't rooting the device, but flashing a rooted firmware is. Jun 29 03:21:09 but it's all just a matter of semantics, and it's not like the definitions are written in stone or anything Jun 29 03:21:21 I see Jun 29 03:21:24 much more clear now Jun 29 03:22:51 and I assume rooting access is impossible to obtain within the rules provided by Android and Phone manufacturers Jun 29 03:23:53 well, nexus devices specifically allow you to unlock the bootloader Jun 29 03:24:27 how would that app work then https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.estrongs.android.pop&hl=en Jun 29 03:24:33 it is supposed to be a file explorer Jun 29 03:24:40 many non-carrier phones are available with unlocked/unlockable bootloaders Jun 29 03:24:45 it only has permision on the external storage? Jun 29 03:25:56 it looks like it has access to other app data Jun 29 03:25:59 from a quick glance Jun 29 03:26:18 Only on a rooted device Jun 29 03:28:31 ajoul: it has access to external storage, but on a "rooted" device it can access full filesystem. Similar operation is done by other apps that use or require "root" Jun 29 03:31:41 p_l: Ahh I see! do you have any suggestions on how I can do something similar (Be able to address bigger file system space in case I have root access) Jun 29 03:31:57 maybe some links or suggestions what I should search on Google for Jun 29 03:32:01 hi guys is there a way i can use button in the list view of a master detail flow view instead? Jun 29 03:33:12 ajoul: "root" essentially allows you to run a classic linux process with root permissions, so you'd have to write the code acting with those permission as separate binary (or constantly call shell commands) and communicate over bidirectional pipe or socket Jun 29 03:33:53 so if the phone has no root access my commands will get denied? Jun 29 03:34:37 you won't even get to run them, because you'd have failure in running "su" in the first place Jun 29 03:52:20 * p_l continues his adventures in making mifare work on broadcom Jun 29 03:53:02 p_l is a real developer now :) Jun 29 03:53:35 i liked school better; if i could i'd stay in academia forever Jun 29 03:54:31 g00s: I was a real developer before (even for military). It's just that everywhere around there are crappy Mifare tags :> Jun 29 03:54:48 and I have broadcom chip :P Jun 29 03:57:54 p_l what tool did you use with your thesis ? Jun 29 03:58:01 sounded like an ontology editor Jun 29 04:00:12 for ontology editing, my go-to tool is TopBraid Composer Jun 29 04:00:32 for datastore, AllegroGraph Jun 29 04:00:42 Stuff in my thesis mainly touched Jena, though Jun 29 04:01:45 ohshit thats expensive Jun 29 04:01:48 (less ontology editing, more plugging a reasoner and making it spew resolved types) Jun 29 04:01:54 g00s: ehhh, you can do a lot on trial :P Jun 29 04:02:01 AGraph is expensive, though Jun 29 04:02:15 probably still cheaper than Oracle w/ Oracle Spatial :> Jun 29 04:02:41 and there's a free option with limited functionality, iirc Jun 29 04:04:57 p_l did you ever hear of this http://callimachusproject.org/ Jun 29 04:05:11 actually its even mentioned here http://franz.com/agraph/callimachus/ Jun 29 04:05:36 "Callimachus builds on AllegroGraph" really ? Jun 29 04:05:39 * g00s confused Jun 29 04:05:56 AllegroGraph is a datastore Jun 29 04:06:00 not application server Jun 29 04:06:22 so are they saying Callimachus can use AllegroGraph as a datastore then ? Jun 29 04:06:31 probably Jun 29 04:10:24 apparently it's something used in "enterprise" variant Jun 29 04:20:51 hmm. So it appears that the only thing missing in broadcom-based NFC is crapto1 Jun 29 04:21:15 ……… I think I just went back to hacking on android platform internals instead of applications, eh? Jun 29 04:21:50 what constitutes excessive keywords? "Do not use irrelevant, misleading, or excessive keywords in apps descriptions, titles, or metadata." Would an app title "English Language Skill Test" be considered excesive? Jun 29 04:22:26 no Jun 29 04:23:32 njcomsec: excessive keywords would be keyword spam in description Jun 29 04:23:41 That's most likely mostly referring to keyword stuffing in the description, so that you get hits for search terms that are unrelated to your app Jun 29 04:24:55 ok.... so if I write a description of my app..... how will I know what is considered unrelated or spam? I mean if my words are all relevant to my app, maybe they will say they are all spam keywords.... but if they arnt, they can say they are unrelated spam words Jun 29 04:25:18 so by that definition, anything I write could technically be considered spamming keywords Jun 29 04:25:18 short answer: don't worry about it Jun 29 04:25:46 so basically, as long as I dont make a concious decision to deceive people or spam. I should be ok? Jun 29 04:26:07 right, just keep it reasonable Jun 29 04:26:13 ok cool Jun 29 04:26:37 as an example, people do things like release a music app and list 30-40 bands in the description, so anyone searching for a band finds their app... Jun 29 04:26:53 ahh I see Jun 29 04:27:35 should I add listeners for hidden buttons? Jun 29 04:27:46 or should I add the listener when I change the visibility of the button Jun 29 04:28:10 I add it to the button in onCreate Jun 29 04:28:16 regardless of whether it's visible Jun 29 04:28:25 it doesn't affect performance right? Jun 29 04:28:29 right Jun 29 04:28:45 as long as you're not creating 100000 listener objects or something :) Jun 29 04:29:16 JesusFreke: what Interface processes do you make parallel in threads. Jun 29 04:29:33 I have a rotating animation that causes my application to display in the log it misses some frames Jun 29 04:29:43 wow, that's a pretty impressive nonsensical sentence :) Jun 29 04:29:48 sorry Jun 29 04:29:52 not so good with english Jun 29 04:29:59 ah :) Jun 29 04:30:09 Ok I have an imageview Jun 29 04:30:09 Yeah, I didn't catch what you were trying to ask Jun 29 04:30:16 which I rotate Jun 29 04:30:27 I doubt I'll be able to help much. I don't actually do much UI work :) Jun 29 04:30:50 I see but I am just curious which UI elements i Should make run in parallel Jun 29 04:30:59 I can't find any guidelines online Jun 29 04:31:25 All UI code runs on the main thread Jun 29 04:31:52 Well I have some custom buttons and animations and when I click them, I get the crappy error message of my application skipping threads Jun 29 04:32:03 what's the error message? Jun 29 04:32:03 warning not error* Jun 29 04:32:34 JesusFreke: 06-29 00:32:19.888: I/Choreographer(1434): Skipped 129 frames! The application may be doing too much work on its main thread. Jun 29 04:32:47 all I did was to click a button and display a pop-up dialog Jun 29 04:33:07 maybe its my device emulator? Not sure? I didn't look much into it Jun 29 04:33:19 It is also kinda slow on my nexus S as well Jun 29 04:33:28 Yeah, emulators are pretty slow Jun 29 04:33:46 but still, might be worth looking into Jun 29 04:33:53 do you see errors like that in your application? Jun 29 04:33:57 it sounds like you have some long-running code somewhere that's running on the main thread Jun 29 04:35:24 You mentioned something about an image view - are you reading an image from disk or something? Jun 29 04:35:31 yeah, quit doing stuff on the main thread Jun 29 04:35:49 but activity transitions will often generate that message Jun 29 04:35:55 and that's no big deal Jun 29 04:36:17 maybe you guys have some suggetions take a look at this code http://pastebin.com/6FFsv8ef Jun 29 04:36:24 thats all I am doing Jun 29 04:36:43 I tried threading but didn't affect it that much Jun 29 04:37:13 that runnable is pointless Jun 29 04:37:18 I realize Jun 29 04:37:30 you're already on the UI thread Jun 29 04:37:36 Oh Jun 29 04:37:48 so its not running in parallel? Jun 29 04:38:23 no, you're on the UI thread and asking the block to run on the UI thread... Jun 29 04:38:31 there is only one UI thread Jun 29 04:38:33 :/ Jun 29 04:38:36 I see Jun 29 04:38:50 could be that the skipping is from the rotation pfn ? Jun 29 04:39:00 I believe its too heavy process Jun 29 04:39:28 I dunno, I rarely do animations that I remember if they need to be run in a background thread Jun 29 04:39:42 use trace view and all that good stuff to srr Jun 29 04:39:45 see Jun 29 04:40:00 how do you guys code the UI Jun 29 04:40:07 is there a framework I am not aware of? Jun 29 04:41:17 you mean apart from the Android UI framework? Jun 29 04:41:43 yeah because I am asking a lot of people about Android UI default framework and nobody seems to know a lot Jun 29 04:41:53 how can you make an app without it? Jun 29 04:42:51 er... you could write an app with no UI? or just bypass the Android UI and build your own? Jun 29 04:44:33 Ok, does anyone have any suggestions on how to optimize the following code? http://pastebin.com/6FFsv8ef Jun 29 04:46:00 Leeds isn't going to help you because you have an anonymous inner class in your anonymous inner class :) Jun 29 04:47:35 also, I'm hunting hotels in Okinawa Jun 29 05:05:00 when I change android:theme from @style/AppTheme to @android:style/Theme.Holo.Light, it causes an error Jun 29 05:05:06 Any idea why? Jun 29 05:06:04 a compile error, or a crash Jun 29 05:06:24 you're smarter here than in #android Jun 29 05:06:30 Allen300: the point isn't just to follow the rules for the sake of the rules - there are a lot of devs in here, who could help, and who aren't in #android, because #android is a mess Jun 29 05:06:52 lol i see Jun 29 05:07:21 anyway, a compile error or a runtime error/crash? Jun 29 05:07:48 Yes it does crash the app Jun 29 05:07:51 but why would it? Jun 29 05:08:10 well, you'd need to look at your log to find out why Jun 29 05:08:22 logcat? Jun 29 05:08:39 of course Jun 29 05:09:26 logcat says "Device disconnected" that's it... o_O Jun 29 05:09:49 no, that's not all Jun 29 05:10:41 Level E, TID -1 Jun 29 05:13:47 Fish, but only on Friday Jun 29 05:15:06 was that meant to mean something? Jun 29 05:16:04 Leeds you've never had your app's theme crash the phone before ? Jun 29 05:16:24 crash the app, disconnect from adb, etc Jun 29 05:16:26 hehe Jun 29 05:16:53 you haven't reached Level E yet, apparently Jun 29 05:21:46 It just says Device disconnected. what can I say Jun 29 05:32:12 g00s, what was the book you recommended? Jun 29 05:32:49 Cbot` http://www.amazon.com/Android-Programming-Ranch-Guide-Guides/dp/0321804333 Jun 29 05:33:01 tyvm Jun 29 05:33:16 it will be out of date of course once L arrives Jun 29 05:33:57 When does L arrive, anyway? Jun 29 05:34:23 L is ART runtime only? Jun 29 05:34:42 i don't think anyone knows when L will be here. But probably sometime before xmas :D Jun 29 05:34:48 I hope not Jun 29 05:34:55 that's too soon for me to want it Jun 29 05:34:57 L is ART only Jun 29 05:35:14 I'm actually perfectly happy with the way it is now Jun 29 05:35:18 not that I don't like innovation Jun 29 05:35:34 it's just that they added in the only features I thought were lacking Jun 29 05:35:43 I suspect my old Nexus 7 won't be getting an update Jun 29 05:36:06 those being the ability to say OK Google in different locales and custom ringtones per contact in hangouts Jun 29 05:36:13 3.0 , 4.0 … historically pretty shaky stuff anyhow; i'd wait for L+n Jun 29 05:36:22 Google's seemingly much quicker to abandon hardware than Apple, unfortunately. Jun 29 05:36:32 Always moving forward Jun 29 05:36:43 can't be helped if the old things are thrown by the wayside Jun 29 05:37:13 Maybe, but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in folks buying things Jun 29 05:37:19 Cbot`: yes Jun 29 05:37:47 bummer, nobody asked at fireside whats up with 64k method limit Jun 29 05:37:50 Granted, my iPad 2 that continues to get updates is kind of at the point where I look at it and think I've turned into one of those people keeping around a Windows XP machine because I don't want to change Jun 29 05:38:00 maybe with new ART opcodes it goes away Jun 29 05:38:15 g00s: I haven't heard anything about new opcodes :P Jun 29 05:38:16 No, it doesn't Jun 29 05:38:23 The limit is still there, dexfiles have not changed Jun 29 05:38:28 p_l yeah they mentioned it somewhere Jun 29 05:39:15 new opcodes? needs a link to that Jun 29 05:39:21 Nilium: the current rumour is that N7-2012 will get L Jun 29 05:39:30 p_l: I'll just wait and see. Jun 29 05:39:43 It's not a huge issue one way or the other since I barely use my Nexus 7. Jun 29 05:39:46 GN won't because TI bailed out of business in the area Jun 29 05:39:58 The screen's too squashed no matter how I use it Jun 29 05:40:03 Just makes it a royal pain Jun 29 05:40:32 and Google is not going to spend money on supporting drivers for it (assuming there is no secret closed sauce outside of SGX driver) Jun 29 05:40:47 The Galaxy Nexus is kind of a piece of crap. Jun 29 05:40:58 I have no love for even attempting to support it. Jun 29 05:41:12 eh, it was pretty nice at the time Jun 29 05:41:23 Yeah, but now? No. Definitely no. Jun 29 05:41:44 I think I'll wait for the Nexus that debuts with L, because 64bits :P Jun 29 05:41:49 Still pretty weird that TI pulled out completely, though. Jun 29 05:42:03 Like I would've thought there was some contract in place to cover support and such in that case Jun 29 05:42:16 i'll have to ask my buddy that worked on omap wth happened Jun 29 05:42:25 I'll wait for a Nexus tablet that doesn't have a screwy aspect ratio Jun 29 05:42:27 Nilium: tends not to be for most embedded... Jun 29 05:42:50 because the tradition in embedded is "push out BSP, forget about the platform" it seems Jun 29 05:42:56 16:9 is just painful. ಠ_ಠ Jun 29 05:43:00 Too squishy. Jun 29 05:43:05 Squashy. Some word. Jun 29 05:43:14 Nilium well, as media consumption devices … Jun 29 05:43:24 Don't try to make that argument, it's dumb and you know it. Jun 29 05:43:28 thats why i like the surface pro, a nice usable aspect ratio Jun 29 05:43:43 doesn't matter, mouth-breathing movie watchers will push for 16:9 ;) Jun 29 05:44:04 I just bought (preordered) one of the new Samsung Tab S Jun 29 05:44:05 If you want to talk about bezel space, let me go ahead and point something out to you: your screen is surrounded by them like it or not. Jun 29 05:44:19 i only use my N7 as a Kindle , its kinda crappy at 16:9 for that Jun 29 05:44:39 Giving users a more human-friendly aspect ratio only benefits the people using the devices, even if it means you might have some unused space beneath a video. Jun 29 05:44:42 some of the newer Samsung tablets are definitely more "professional" oriented so we might see a move in that area Jun 29 05:44:49 Or beside a video, depending on the video's aspect ratio. Jun 29 05:45:07 should get it on Friday, hopefully Jun 29 05:45:53 The sane aspect ratio is why I keep using an iPad. I can't stand these absurd widescreen resolutions for tablets. It's awkward when you hold it in portrait and too skinny and awkward when I hold it in landscape because it's too long. Jun 29 05:45:54 Leeds what will you do with it ? Jun 29 05:46:05 i like 4:3 Jun 29 05:46:07 Not to mention the vertical space available in landscape is just sad. Jun 29 05:46:08 usual stuff - games, videos, reading, porn... Jun 29 05:46:24 s/\w+(?=, )/porn/g Jun 29 05:48:17 Why do I have image magick on my system when I don't remember installing it... Jun 29 05:48:19 Nilium was kinda surprised to read apple discontinue aperture Jun 29 05:48:36 * Nilium shrugs Jun 29 05:48:41 noew Lr has no competition - thats bad Jun 29 05:48:45 Makes no difference to me. Jun 29 05:48:49 since adobe is so lazy to begin with Jun 29 05:49:03 I'm sure my dad will complain about it because he got into photography but I honestly don't care. Jun 29 05:49:12 I'll let people who care do the caring. Jun 29 05:49:49 Hell, I license Photoshop but I only use it for painting. They could rip all the photography stuff out of Photoshop and I'd just be happy 'cause then it'd probably start up faster. Jun 29 05:51:04 have I mentioned recently how broken NFC is? Jun 29 05:51:18 hehe Jun 29 05:51:20 I just forget NFC exists because who uses it? Jun 29 05:52:08 Android-specific NFC functionality just works Jun 29 05:52:26 it's the emulating/reading/writing NXP crap that is fucked up Jun 29 05:53:28 Just realized Corel Painter still exists Jun 29 05:53:40 Is there a way to get 2 listviews on to one screen with only one scrollbar? Jun 29 05:54:06 Why not have one list view with two columns per row? Jun 29 05:54:31 mburst use 1 listview with mergeadapter or something Jun 29 05:54:49 maybe new RecyclerView, but i haven't used that yet Jun 29 05:54:49 It's two separate sets of data that come one after the other Jun 29 05:54:56 So? Jun 29 05:54:58 yeah, thats fine Jun 29 05:55:20 How would I set that up with 1 listview and a header to separate them? Jun 29 05:55:27 Sorry I'm new to android development Jun 29 05:55:30 https://github.com/commonsguy/cwac-merge Jun 29 05:55:49 put one set in one adapter, the other set in the … other adapter ;) Jun 29 05:56:38 Alright I'll give this a shot Jun 29 05:56:39 thanks Jun 29 05:56:39 I don't know why you'd need to drag in someone else's code for that. Jun 29 05:57:03 What do you recommend? Jun 29 05:57:22 Just write an adapter that pulls data from both sources? Jun 29 05:57:46 Also, Commonsware apparently uses 2-space indentations. Jun 29 05:57:58 I can now point to his code as an example of why I'm not the only person using 2-space indentations. Jun 29 05:59:27 I like 2-space indentation Jun 29 05:59:51 but then I'm weird, so hey... Jun 29 06:00:16 How can I read files from internal storage of my own app Jun 29 06:00:23 You also use vim, therefore you get five free cases of being right by default. Jun 29 06:00:29 The merge adapter seems to just make one list. I need to have a header at the top of each list and some vertical separation between the 2nd header and the 1st list Jun 29 06:00:56 mburst hm, ok .. then maybe http://jsharkey.org/blog/2008/08/18/separating-lists-with-headers-in-android-09/ ? Jun 29 06:01:09 Wait, you want two lists laid out top to bottom? Jun 29 06:01:13 g00s: pre-1.0, really? :) Jun 29 06:01:32 Leeds yeah listview has sucked for a long time :) Jun 29 06:01:35 Nilium: Yea Jun 29 06:01:47 Ah.. in that case, uh, don't. Jun 29 06:01:52 Or give up. Or something. Jun 29 06:01:56 lol Jun 29 06:02:14 Doesn't make a lot of sense to have two list views that aren't side-by-side scrolling in unison. Jun 29 06:02:30 I want to do something like this http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/thumb/5/5c/Interface03scoreboard.jpg/220px-Interface03scoreboard.jpg?version=e0a2fcb2a484566170b275f5b3f67c12 Jun 29 06:02:36 Try to find a way to merge them. Jun 29 06:02:54 Or don't make them scroll in unison. Jun 29 06:03:06 They need to scroll in unison Jun 29 06:03:19 How can I getApplicationContext() from outside of an activity Jun 29 06:03:27 in a random class Jun 29 06:03:40 mburst oh, i missed that … so when you scroll one the other scrolls ? Jun 29 06:03:43 So I should give up on list view and hardcode 10 relative layouts or something? Jun 29 06:03:44 Try this: zip the two lists together but make their content separate by left-justifying list A's content and right-justifying list B's content. Jun 29 06:04:23 g00s: I want scrolling to happen on the parent rather than the listview itself Jun 29 06:04:36 Then don't use a listview. Jun 29 06:04:53 Yea they won't fit side by side :/ Jun 29 06:05:16 Is the number of rows always the same? Jun 29 06:05:40 90% of the time Jun 29 06:05:46 Yes or no question. Jun 29 06:05:57 The data is pulled in from an api Jun 29 06:06:06 Just answer yes or no. Jun 29 06:06:09 so if the game isn't fully loaded there may only be 9 rows instead of 10 Jun 29 06:06:33 I think that's a clear 'no' Jun 29 06:06:37 It's not a yes or no question which is why I went for a listview rather than hard coding 10 rows Jun 29 06:06:52 It sounds to me like it's a yes-but-my-code-might-fail-to-load-a-row Jun 29 06:07:05 something like that Jun 29 06:07:09 At any rate, you don't want a listview. Jun 29 06:07:19 Use a LinearLayout, add stuff as needed. Jun 29 06:07:26 Alright cool Jun 29 06:07:29 I appreciate the help Jun 29 06:07:49 I just started learning this stuff so a lot of this is new to me Jun 29 06:07:58 Just take your time with it. Jun 29 06:08:16 And read the docs. For the love of dog, read the docs. Too many people don't. ಠ_ಠ Jun 29 06:08:26 Or the love of cat, if you're a cat person. Jun 29 06:08:29 Maybe bird. Jun 29 06:08:33 lol Jun 29 06:24:48 yezzir $target Jun 29 06:52:34 Can someone help me with this Jun 29 06:52:34 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24346480/android-wait-for-dialogfragment-response Jun 29 08:40:33 Hello everyone. I'm developing an application that stores GPS locations periodically. To do this, I'm running it as a Service, using Google Play Service's LocationClient and LocationRequest. Here's my code so far: http://pastebin.com/k79CqAv2 -- From what I've been reading, there's a hardware/time constraint when it comes to getting the location. What would you recommend to achieve a good periodicity and good data? Also, is it a good practice to call an Jun 29 08:41:46 As references, I've used the following link: https://gist.github.com/blackcj/20efe2ac885c7297a676 Jun 29 09:42:06 I'm using MultiAutoCompleteTextView with a custom adapter. After user has selected items is parsing the final text the only way get all inputted items? Jun 29 10:15:11 anyone got the Android L SDK working? Jun 29 10:15:22 I get Error:(4, 0) Could not find property 'L' on com.android.build.gradle.AppExtension_Decorated@5d28b564. Jun 29 10:40:20 In the L preview, Why can't I set the HomeAsUpIndicator via the styles? it works using java Jun 29 10:46:09 Lava cake Jun 29 10:46:15 i think thats the next android Jun 29 10:46:33 In the L preview, Why can't I set the HomeAsUpIndicator via the styles? it works using setHomeAsUpIndicator Jun 29 10:46:43 err wrong chan heh Jun 29 10:48:57 yoavst: don't repeat yourself, it is sunday, tech channels are dead Jun 29 10:49:34 Foxandxss, oh, forgot that :( Jun 29 10:49:47 I'll come back tomorrow Jun 29 10:54:23 bah even g00s isn't here... what's going on ?? Jun 29 11:04:18 no g00s? we're gonna have a bad time ... Jun 29 11:14:18 sunday is meant to rest, nobody respects that, but that is the idea Jun 29 11:18:30 There's rules on when one can work? :p Jun 29 11:18:33 I am trying to decide which IDE to use for developing my app. I read the pros of Android Studio over Eclipse, a lot of them. I have refered a lot of blogs and every one of them said that Android Studio is extremely buggy. But I have noticed that those posts were dated to 2013. What is the situation now ? Jun 29 11:19:07 b3h3m0th, I have used android studio to develop simple apps and it worked quite well some time ago Jun 29 11:19:13 now it reached beta so it should work even better Jun 29 11:20:11 capella: in fact, there are but I am not a psychologist :P Jun 29 11:20:46 Ah well, I choose to create my own rules usually anyhow Jun 29 11:21:13 * capella considers others' rules to be "suggestions" :) Jun 29 11:21:47 (Hence, I'm working on Sunday) Jun 29 11:22:43 capella: technically you need one full day (or better day and a half) of rest so your energy can keep up to the next week, but meh Jun 29 11:22:46 I also work on sundays Jun 29 11:24:09 * capella agrees not all my own rules are good ones XD Jun 29 11:26:23 i have an iphone that i got for free, so i've never really took the time to see what android phone has to over... but god damn, some are sexy as hell :) Jun 29 11:41:27 therue: you're missing out Jun 29 11:41:37 :P Jun 29 11:42:12 after a week of pondering, i've decided to learn java and develop for android instead of ios :) so at least i've made the right decision at the end :) Jun 29 11:43:22 therue: why not do both Jun 29 11:43:35 for users like me who use both iOS and Android Jun 29 11:44:10 so I investigating a bit into making root apps compatible with Android L (dev preview). I've wrapped up my findings in an article and would be glad for any feedback: http://cygery.com/wordpress/2014/06/29/android-l-selinux-root-apps/ Jun 29 11:44:19 aint nobody got time for that! Jun 29 11:44:29 *investigated Jun 29 11:44:32 i'm already busy enough learning java lol Jun 29 11:46:37 Is it possible to use with ListView Item layout ? Jun 29 11:53:16 R4md4c: why not? Jun 29 11:53:27 it will be used in the getView Jun 29 11:53:32 when inflating the view Jun 29 11:53:44 just remember it adds a FrameLayout to your code Jun 29 11:53:55 Well, I am not sure what is the default parent of a listview item Jun 29 11:54:09 Is it a FrameLayout as you said ? Jun 29 11:54:14 yes Jun 29 11:54:24 from what I remember Jun 29 11:56:09 R4md4c: it's a regular View Jun 29 11:56:32 and the parent is the ListView itself Jun 29 11:56:52 R4md4c: look at this: http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/4.4.2_r1/android/widget/AbsListView.java#AbsListView.obtainView%28int%2Cboolean%5B%5D%29 Jun 29 11:57:02 Then, i guess the merge tag is not possible Jun 29 11:57:12 * R4md4c looks Jun 29 11:57:49 hey Jun 29 12:01:37 I have a little question... Well: I can successfully save files on my device with my Storage class. Now I want to add a method which saves the file in an external directory, where the file can be accessed with a computer. My class currently looks like this: http://pastie.org/9337290. When the method is executed no errors are printed and everything seems to be fine. But the file is not created/visible somehow. I also added the R Jun 29 12:01:49 Any ideas? Jun 29 12:06:14 Black_ixx: why the double "//" ? Jun 29 12:06:56 canvs2321: because without it didn't work either xD So I tried it out Jun 29 12:07:10 thepoosh: Thanks for answering me Jun 29 12:07:20 Black_ixx, single / didn't work? Jun 29 12:07:22 Black_ixx: what is GameView.debug("Saving external file "+newfile.getAbsolutePath()); printing Jun 29 12:08:02 EPG: mgm canvs2321: Saving external file /storage/emulated/0/filesmwinfo.MW Jun 29 12:08:13 ok Jun 29 12:08:15 and that seems like the right path Jun 29 12:08:43 but that "//" doesn't seem right, / isn't an escape character Jun 29 12:08:46 i have a ViewPager that has an input field in it, when i swipe to the sides the keyboard minimizes. that takes time (keyboard minimizing), i want the keyboard to be swiped away with the contents of the view. is it possible? Jun 29 12:09:04 just changed the line into "File newfile = new File(Environment.getExternalStorageDirectory().toString()+"/"+f.getName());" Jun 29 12:09:04 canvs2321, yes, but this shouldn't make any difference Jun 29 12:09:07 still not working Jun 29 12:09:19 so I think the problem is somewhere else Jun 29 12:09:24 Black_ixx, is your external storage/sdcard mounted on your computer? Jun 29 12:09:59 EPG: It's inbuilt and connected with my computer Jun 29 12:10:09 Black_ixx, unmount it and try again Jun 29 12:10:09 inbuilt in the mobile phone* Jun 29 12:10:24 EPG: alright I'll try that thanks :) Jun 29 12:10:59 from the docs: "This directory may not currently be accessible if it has been mounted by the user on their computer, has been removed from the device, or some other problem has happened." (http://developer.android.com/reference/android/os/Environment.html#getExternalStorageDirectory%28%29) Jun 29 12:12:03 still not working and I think if that would be the case an error message would be printed Jun 29 12:13:12 how are you checking that it isn't working? by mounting again and checking via computer, or by code? I know my galaxy nexus, if you change a file on sdcard, sometimes there is a delay to be seen by computer of updated sdcard entries Jun 29 12:13:18 I'll just print out the current state of the external storage Jun 29 12:13:43 canvs2321: I've got a file manager app Jun 29 12:13:51 Black_ixx, do you check the logcat output (I've no idea what GameView.debug() prints to)? Jun 29 12:13:58 Black_ixx, make sure to refresh there Jun 29 12:14:25 EPG: I did and GameView.debug works with logcat :) Jun 29 12:14:29 a 3rd party file manager or your own? i'd say get into adb shell or write your code to check the file Jun 29 12:14:44 a 3d party file manager Jun 29 12:15:10 canvs2321: good idea. I'll check for the file with my own code :) Jun 29 12:15:12 after writing do another if(!newfile.exists()){ check Jun 29 12:15:33 brb testing that out Jun 29 12:20:34 I'll rejoin this chat in a few mins just restarting my computer Jun 29 12:28:21 Anyone try to make app with android L but have to use java 7? Jun 29 12:29:34 Found oiut Jun 29 12:38:30 back Jun 29 12:39:57 found the problem: http://snapcr.net/c/542f.png The execution of file.createNewFile(); is not successfull... Jun 29 12:42:37 actually that sounds like the file would already exist if there is no error Jun 29 12:49:43 Black_ixx: and just to check you have the permission to write to external storage in your manifest? Jun 29 12:50:44 successfully created a directory in the external folder but the file inside that folder still is not created Jun 29 12:51:30 canvs2321: I've added "" to the manifest Jun 29 12:51:33 whats your new path for the file using the directory you created Jun 29 12:53:03 canvs2321: uhm "Saving external file /storage/emulated/0/ManaWar/filesmwinfo." "Is file existing now? false" Jun 29 12:53:55 can some clear something up for me, whats the todo and todos id for? Jun 29 12:53:57 current code: http://pastie.org/9337449 Jun 29 12:54:06 http://www.vogella.com/tutorials/AndroidSQLite/article.html#todo Jun 29 12:56:40 line 6 black_ixx: change from f.createNewFile to newFile.createNewFile Jun 29 12:56:50 oohhhh Jun 29 12:56:55 yeah that sounds good Jun 29 12:57:00 canvs2321: Thanks a lot Jun 29 12:57:05 yep :) Jun 29 12:57:10 canvs2321: !! :D You are great man Jun 29 12:57:20 it working now? Jun 29 12:57:39 testing now Jun 29 12:58:01 plus your saveFile(f) should probably be saveFile(newFile) Jun 29 12:58:42 already corrected :) Jun 29 12:58:49 Thanks man :) It is working now! Jun 29 12:59:15 finally Jun 29 12:59:19 I'm so happy xD Jun 29 12:59:35 sweet Jun 29 13:00:50 it's always these little mistakes what takes the most time to fix Jun 29 13:01:02 yep Jun 29 13:24:03 hello Jun 29 13:40:02 Does anyone know how hard it would be to create a simple apk to play sounds? I was thinking one button to toggle play/stop. Jun 29 13:42:24 i have this code in my manifest to force landscape, but it only does it one direction… won’t rotate: android:screenOrientation="landscape" Jun 29 13:43:29 ultra-: Check the documentation for supported values, should be fairly obvious Jun 29 13:43:45 ok Jun 29 13:45:53 sensorLandscape :) Jun 29 14:06:19 Hello. I'm using ActionBarDrawerToggle with R.drawable.ic_drawer. How can I change the colour of ic_drawer programatically instead of having to edit each and every resolution? Jun 29 14:13:29 hi guys Jun 29 14:13:36 i have a list from java.util/list Jun 29 14:13:51 and i want to display that list items in a fragment Jun 29 14:14:07 how can i do that? Jun 29 14:15:06 Hello everyone. I'm developing an application that stores GPS locations periodically. To do this, I'm running it as a Service, using Google Play Service's LocationClient and LocationRequest. Here's my code so far: http://pastebin.com/k79CqAv2 -- From what I've been reading, there's a hardware/time constraint when it comes to getting the location. What would you recommend to achieve a good periodicity and good data? Also, is it a good practice to call an Jun 29 14:22:48 Hello. I'm using ActionBarDrawerToggle with R.drawable.ic_drawer. How can I change the colour of ic_drawer programatically instead of having to edit each and every resolution? Jun 29 14:27:19 Moony22: You can't Jun 29 14:30:15 Moony22: You probably could, using some dark reflective magic and special drawables. It's probably not worth the effort though. Jun 29 14:32:24 anybody got a good page that lists various things i should be checking over before i release my app? Jun 29 14:32:39 i mean i realize there’s testing, icons, etc, i’m just afraid i’ll be forgetting something Jun 29 14:32:51 Can I inflate a new view in a fragment? or is better to switch between 2 fragments back and forth? Jun 29 14:35:08 ultra-: you've seen http://developer.android.com/distribute/tools/launch-checklist.html right? Jun 29 14:35:20 i haven’t, thanks Jun 29 14:35:33 this looks perfect Jun 29 14:35:43 and everything else under /distribute, pretty much :) Jun 29 14:37:14 Hey, I'm still trying to record some video and managed to get a bit further now, however, I can only get a preview of the video as it is recording. I've tried initializing the MediaRecorder in my onCreate() on line 64, but I get an error that the surface is lost. However, when startRecord() is called when the button is pressed, the preview surface works just fine until you stop recording, then it freezes http://pastebin.com/fztMxQqJ Jun 29 14:37:34 I assume you have to be actively recording for the surface to be updated with the preview? Jun 29 14:47:43 is there a real good alternative to asynctask? Jun 29 14:48:01 gdrc: Looked into Loaders? Jun 29 14:48:32 yes but are bit different, you can't do ui stuff Jun 29 14:49:03 What do you /need/? Jun 29 14:49:26 an asynctask less buggy Jun 29 14:51:02 I liked AsyncLoaders... :/ Jun 29 14:51:28 what about configuration changes? Jun 29 14:52:27 gdrc: What do you mean? Jun 29 14:52:31 gdrc: what are you doing? Jun 29 14:54:38 for example, I need a task to do the login in my app. In asynctask I create a progress dialog, do the login, and call a method of activity when finished. but if the app configuration changes (for example: rotation) the task dies. I'm searching for something that can handles this Jun 29 14:54:39 "App does not redefine the expected function of a system icon (such as the Back button)." well overriding the back button must be ok right? even necessary. so they just mean dont make the "Back" button into a "enter" button right? Jun 29 14:55:48 gdrc: There may be simpler alternatives, but a service is not bound to the activity... Jun 29 14:55:58 gdrc: what about to use an IntentService? Jun 29 14:59:25 gdrc, use Retrofit, RxJava or EventBus/Otto message bus to handle that Jun 29 15:00:11 using messagebus design usually mitigates that very well Jun 29 15:00:23 if i have a bunch of buttons in a view and i want to remove them and put another button to replace them all, should i switch fragment then or can i inflate a new view? Jun 29 15:00:51 why not just have all inflated and hide them? Jun 29 15:04:04 but i want the button be on top of the others/instead of them, how does that work with visbility, does GONE make them disappear completely? Jun 29 15:06:17 Is there a template somewhere for launcher icons that has that nice looking shadow effect? Jun 29 15:06:41 arreche: I don't like IntentService, I don't like Bundle communicating Jun 29 15:09:08 fortet, Z order is not connected to visibility. Jun 29 15:09:10 use a proper layout. Jun 29 15:10:23 Z order? Jun 29 15:11:08 I mean if I put the button that shows the result the fursthest down in my linear layout, if the others a re gone, will it be centered if using centering? Jun 29 15:12:05 fortet, can you paste your layout? Jun 29 15:15:41 invisible=takes up physical space but not shown, gone=like it is not there at all? Jun 29 15:16:33 fortet, yes Jun 29 15:26:37 btw does anyone have some feedback for my article about root apps on Android L (http://cygery.com/wordpress/2014/06/29/android-l-selinux-root-apps/)? Jun 29 15:27:02 how to pass the pointer of an object like imageview from an activity to an invoked dialog fragment from the activity? Jun 29 15:27:44 java has pointers? Jun 29 15:28:42 ultra-, no Jun 29 15:28:50 i didn’t think so Jun 29 15:36:02 EPG: I might paste my layout later if I dont get it to work. But I need to rearrange it first. Jun 29 15:36:37 fortet, ok Jun 29 15:44:55 EPG: you say you wrote that article? What root app you have? Jun 29 15:45:20 canvs2321, RepetiTouch Jun 29 15:45:51 ah ok, think i saw you post that a day or two ago Jun 29 15:46:52 hey guys, i'm trying to build a C++ library using NDK, but the library has to be built using cmake. I'd like to verify that i've done it successfully and gotten cmake to put out an armv7 binary Jun 29 15:47:02 how does one go about verifying what platform a .so file has been built for Jun 29 15:47:03 ? Jun 29 15:47:09 had me a root app on market for awhile, then took it down, now completely rewritting it& holy crap alot has changed since my original app with android haha Jun 29 15:47:18 big headache Jun 29 15:48:12 yes, I'm especially afraid of additional differences regarding the SELinux policies on different devices etc. which makes this even worse Jun 29 15:48:24 and of course further general restrictions :/ Jun 29 15:48:41 sigmabeta, on linux I think you can use "file" Jun 29 15:49:07 you will get an output like libstagefright.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped Jun 29 15:50:06 EPG: Yea, i'm going forward with not worrying too much bout it "yet", then deal with it when i need to :) Jun 29 15:51:56 helicopter88, good call. thanks Jun 29 15:51:58 canvs2321, ok :) keep the PIE thing in mind if you're building a binary for the root stuff Jun 29 15:52:47 got your post bookmarked Jun 29 15:53:46 I'll update it if I find anything new or better methods Jun 29 15:57:25 seems some people here use an irc client which doesn't parse the link too well (the ")?" doesn't belong to it) Jun 29 15:57:52 hey guys Jun 29 15:57:57 hi Jun 29 16:02:04 does anyone have experience with storing "looks" of whole fragments externally? Jun 29 16:17:20 Beg, what do you mean with "looks"? Jun 29 16:20:51 EPG: sorry, back.. Jun 29 16:26:31 EPG: We have generalized the way our system handles questions, question being a question, which you can answer. In this generalization, we lost specific costumization of each question Jun 29 16:27:18 So, I think, we would need an object, which can contain the "looks" which the view will use Jun 29 16:27:34 and adapt to Jun 29 16:29:39 so, my question is, Is there a way to handle this issue with some native solution? Jun 29 16:31:49 Beg, I don't completely understand your issue, could you maybe paste some relevant code? Jun 29 16:33:29 or a screenshot of desired effect Jun 29 16:34:02 hey guys, I've been googling for a solution but haven't been succesful. I'm trying to save an image from a form into mysql. The way I want it is to save a url string instead of the whole image. How would I go about doing this in a single process? Jun 29 16:35:40 form, mysql, is this android? Jun 29 16:35:59 is it not possible to run more than one AVD in the normal simulator? Jun 29 16:37:55 EPG: The desired effect is, I programatically add X amount of buttons. I want to manage how EACH of these buttons will be arranged in the layout, such as, position, size, font size, color, without any hardcoding. Jun 29 16:38:43 ok Jun 29 16:39:09 I'm sorry if I'm being to harsh, just trying to be explicit Jun 29 16:39:37 canvs2321 you're right, I'm new to both and I was looking in wrong place. All I wanted is direction and you provided that. :) Jun 29 16:40:15 so you need to store the layout parameters for them Jun 29 16:40:28 It is for an android application but the solution seems to be with php/mysql Jun 29 16:42:28 Tolgon: In this form, do you expect the person to upload a picture or a url? Jun 29 16:42:39 picture from gallery Jun 29 16:42:56 that gets stored in an external database, in this case mysql Jun 29 16:43:33 save an url string instead of the whole image doesnt make sense Jun 29 16:43:34 but after canvs's comment I did a different google search and found this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22732874/upload-image-to-server-and-store-image-path-in-mysql-database Jun 29 16:43:38 which should help Jun 29 16:43:41 are you saying you dont want to put the url string in the sql db? Jun 29 16:43:44 Beg, you could, e.g., create a new Class which stores all layout parameters you need Jun 29 16:44:20 EPG, I need to be able to transfer this through the net Jun 29 16:44:24 err sorry are yo usaying you only want to put the url in the db and not the image itself Jun 29 16:44:33 yes LiENUS Jun 29 16:44:38 the image goes on my web server Jun 29 16:44:39 any particular reason? Jun 29 16:44:44 url in database Jun 29 16:44:57 I think it's bad practise to use whole images in a database? Jun 29 16:44:59 idk Jun 29 16:45:02 Tolgon: then you need to communicate with the web server and app server Jun 29 16:45:07 Beg, what about JSON? Jun 29 16:45:10 Tolgon: it's not, it's a Database. Jun 29 16:45:15 Tolgon, you're assuming there Jun 29 16:45:32 there may be reasons to do it the way you want but that isnt one Jun 29 16:45:42 blobs are for storing large binary objects Jun 29 16:45:58 I want to reuse the saved image later again in the application, is it better to do so with the whole image in the database or just the url string Jun 29 16:46:04 if your database has trouble storing large binary objects in a field for large binary objects, seek another db Jun 29 16:46:40 thats going to depend on your design requirements Jun 29 16:47:00 basic app: save image with description > view image with description Jun 29 16:47:22 if your webserver is in php though Jun 29 16:47:28 this is a better question for ##php Jun 29 16:47:48 i dont get how you are confused about doing this though, it should be straightforward Jun 29 16:48:18 Tolgon, http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.file-upload.php that explains the file upload stuff with php Jun 29 16:48:32 your decision then becomes to move the files into a publically accessible directory on your webserver Jun 29 16:48:44 or to just read the file into the db and erase the temporary file Jun 29 16:48:47 EPG: Alright, let's say I use that. How would I do the designing of the application, would I need to write my own tool or is there a way to extract layout parameters by "reverse-engineer" a current view? Jun 29 16:49:26 Hi, I am getting Description Resource Path Location Type The container 'Android Dependencies' references non existing library 'D:\adt-bundle-windows-x86_64-20140624\sdk\tools\support\annotations.jar' Jun 29 16:49:47 thank you LiENUS Jun 29 16:49:50 Beg, I'm not sure but I don't know of an existing method for this Jun 29 16:50:03 On a newly extracted bundle, I have tried to update adt with no success Jun 29 16:50:13 EPG: Hehe, that is basically what I'm looking for, a supported method :P Jun 29 16:50:30 friktzz_, is your ANDROID_HOME env variable broken? Jun 29 16:50:34 does the file it looks for exist? Jun 29 16:51:18 EPG: Thanks for your time, It helped me to reflect upon the issue Jun 29 16:51:31 The env variable, should it be specified in eclipse or windows? no the file doesnt even exist Jun 29 16:51:37 Beg, you're welcome. It's sometimes a good idea to write something on your own :) Jun 29 16:52:26 yes, but, I'm going with the rule, I'm designing a X app/program/system, not a library for a app/program/system ^^ Jun 29 16:55:09 EPG: also, it's a student group developing an app for hospital, and since we are students, I just try to do as much "best-practice" as possible and learn from the experience Jun 29 16:55:23 my life doesn't depend on finishing this project Jun 29 16:59:03 EPG: I'll look into writing my own thing, but what's your opinion of serializing objects rather than JSON? You don't have to do the "translation" back and forth to the database Jun 29 17:02:46 Beg, I don't have very much experience with serializing vs. JSON but would generally tend to use JSON to transmit such data via a network Jun 29 17:04:19 Alright Jun 29 17:12:16 EPG: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/View.html#getLayoutParams%28%29 Jun 29 17:18:07 Androdi warns nested weights are bad for performance, how bad? takes really long time to load? Jun 29 17:18:42 fortet, i'm not sure about performance, but it's definitely not good style. I've seen weird implementation-specific stuff happen Jun 29 17:18:58 fortet if its just one level, and a layout that gets done once before the activity shows, probably nothing to worry about Jun 29 17:19:31 but yeah, see if you can use GridLayout or something Jun 29 17:23:44 I feel like design is going to get way more difficult Jun 29 17:24:09 hi there, i have an energy related question. what need more energy: a full datarate transfer for X seconds or a full cpu usage for X seconds? Jun 29 17:24:21 i use wifi Jun 29 17:25:06 smart1 you'll have to wait for Volta tools to know for sure :) Jun 29 17:25:19 autrilla yeah, unfortunately Jun 29 17:25:37 We'll have to read A LOT on animations Jun 29 17:25:42 g00s, what would you guess? Jun 29 17:25:57 smart1 no idea :) Jun 29 17:26:10 smart1, it depends on the CPU Jun 29 17:26:25 I don't know if it's necessarily a mad thing that materials are going to make design more difficult Jun 29 17:26:36 it should improve overall design standards, right? Jun 29 17:26:44 depends on the radio, might have to depend on whether cellular or wifi, and if cellular how far the base station is, too many variables Jun 29 17:26:46 I definitely like it Jun 29 17:27:12 It's cleaner. I like flat design. And they mixed flat design with depth in a beautiful wayç Jun 29 17:30:35 smart1, depending on radio used Jun 29 17:30:47 smart1, in bad signal areas the radio will burn more power than CPU Jun 29 17:30:49 actually, I suspect design might get easier with material design, what might not would be compatibility with older versions, again Jun 29 17:30:50 in others not so much. Jun 29 17:31:07 smart1, also, of course, depends heavily on the CPU Jun 29 17:31:14 p_l, what about animations? Jun 29 17:31:19 There is heavy use for that Jun 29 17:31:40 autrilla: yes, but it doesn't mean you have to code your own animations from scratch Jun 29 17:31:49 (or code any animations at all) Jun 29 17:31:57 it depends on your particular use case Jun 29 17:32:06 I guess we'll see soon Jun 29 17:32:15 and iirc the ripple element is going to make one of the more common animations easier, doesn't it? Jun 29 17:32:23 Hello! Jun 29 17:32:34 What would I normally use C for in Android dev.? Jun 29 17:32:37 Probably, yeah Jun 29 17:32:41 someHuman, games Jun 29 17:32:50 autrilla: Ah, what about C++? Jun 29 17:32:53 someHuman, you wouldn't. Jun 29 17:32:59 unless you'd know you need C/C++. Jun 29 17:33:11 Mavrik: What are those usually used for? Jun 29 17:33:11 someHuman, games Jun 29 17:33:17 Mostly Jun 29 17:33:21 AH ok Jun 29 17:33:26 Things for which Java isn't optimal Jun 29 17:33:35 someHuman, pieces of code that don't run fast enough in Java Jun 29 17:33:44 someHuman: porting code running elsewhere, fast math routines, applications that draw everything by themselves and already have a drawing engine (example case: Polaris Office, which has its own C++ renderer for documents) Jun 29 17:34:00 Ah Jun 29 17:34:08 usually, native code adds significant burden Jun 29 17:34:09 So I can use C rather than Java right? Jun 29 17:34:15 someHuman, note that C/C++ has practically no direct access to Android APIs which severely limits its usability. Jun 29 17:34:16 You shouldn't Jun 29 17:34:17 someHuman: only for very limited subset Jun 29 17:34:20 someHuman, you shouldn't. Jun 29 17:34:26 well, you can do more, but it's... hard Jun 29 17:34:27 Ah man! Jun 29 17:34:36 Java is super easy to learn Jun 29 17:34:36 if you have to ask those questions, then you CERTANLY shouldn't. Jun 29 17:34:45 Lol Jun 29 17:34:52 I learnt it myself, without any teachers and as my first programming language Jun 29 17:34:59 p_l, the fact that JNI is something built by a madman doesn't really help Jun 29 17:35:01 I feel lazy to learn Java then my K&R 2nd E. is coming soon haha! Jun 29 17:35:11 autrilla: Self learner too ;) Jun 29 17:35:13 anyone played with the wear sdk to build wear apps? Im wondering about the "timeout period", say if id like to build a timer app for the Wear device. how can i keep my app alive until my timer finishes? Jun 29 17:35:29 someHuman: Polaris office for example used a mix of Android-specific Java code (handling various APIs etc) while the document handling and rendering was iirc in C++ (or so I found when I debugged why the bugger didn't run after OS update...) Jun 29 17:35:49 Ah Jun 29 17:36:07 p_l, that's probably just mostly a side effect of using an existing C++ lib for rendering Jun 29 17:36:11 Hmm, do you guys know which channel I should go to to talk about smartphones? Jun 29 17:36:14 also, the fact that Dalvik is crap in tight loops :P Jun 29 17:36:17 Would you continue developing an app or would you wait until L? Jun 29 17:36:19 I'm also looking to get FIrefox OS Jun 29 17:36:23 someHuman: lol Jun 29 17:36:24 until L is released*? Jun 29 17:36:30 autrilla, it doesn't look like L will have quick adoption ;) Jun 29 17:36:31 someHuman: try #iphone Jun 29 17:36:32 Which I support more than Android, sorry Jun 29 17:36:32 :D Jun 29 17:36:37 voip: -_- Jun 29 17:36:38 Mavrik, why? Jun 29 17:36:39 ART? Jun 29 17:36:41 <34 Jun 29 17:36:50 autrilla, well, manufacturers have to update phones :) Jun 29 17:37:00 What is L? Jun 29 17:37:00 Mavrik: I think it might have been related to the fact that they probably had the same lib running on iOS as well Jun 29 17:37:06 mhm Jun 29 17:37:10 that makes alot of sense Jun 29 17:37:15 someHuman: "L" is the name for dev. preview for next version of android Jun 29 17:37:18 We can still target L and support older versions Jun 29 17:37:39 With the new design! Jun 29 17:38:15 someHuman: I had a non-graphic use case for NDK - complete native lib implementing all of business logic of a client app, portable between windows, linux, OSX, iOS, webOS and Android, requiring one to only code code the UI around it Jun 29 17:38:59 (library involved openssl, libcurl, some extra crypto code like skein hash function and bcrypt, plus routines that would talk HTTPS to backend server) Jun 29 17:39:35 http://i.gyazo.com/4216e02ee0a6cf1d751a946da09c3f3a.png heh. Jun 29 17:40:31 in the "whats new in android tools" talk, were the things xav discusses everything that happened since this time last year, or stuff just added in 0.12.0 ? Jun 29 17:41:34 iirc he also discussed android studio 0.8 Jun 29 17:41:43 tor did more of the AS stuff Jun 29 17:42:08 ah, I don't remember specific people doing the presentation :P Jun 29 17:42:08 that seemed like 0.8.+ specific Jun 29 17:47:26 Woah, material design is really well documented Jun 29 17:48:42 A question about SurfaceViews, am I correct these (or at least the Surface) are not created directly when a layout is passed to setContentView()? Jun 29 17:49:18 define directly Jun 29 17:49:32 the surface of a Surface (or Texture) view may or may not be available the whole lifecycle Jun 29 17:49:39 Wherever I try to use the Surface in onmCreate(), it's null Jun 29 17:49:47 you MUST handle the callbacks and only render to the Surface/TextureView when the callback is called. Jun 29 17:49:57 (that is, onSurfaceCreated and onSurfaceDestroyed) Jun 29 17:50:15 if you'll attempt to write to a surface after it's destroyed or before it's created your app will crash Jun 29 17:51:09 I tried implementing a callback, but I still get "Fail to copnnect to camera service", however the message about invalid surface is gone, so it's probably something else now :s Jun 29 17:52:00 When calling just Camera.open(), I assume the default camera is used by default, or does an camera id have to be specified (even tho it accepts no args) Jun 29 17:52:01 galaxyAbstractor, reboot your phone if you crashed the camera service. Jun 29 17:52:15 before attempting to do anything else. Jun 29 17:52:27 Mavrik: ohh, I'll try Jun 29 18:07:55 Mavrik: Still no change :\ (nah, it didn't take this long to reboot, but I had an idea, but it wasn't right) Jun 29 18:08:45 I got an email from a customer saying 'The application does not open.' … not really sure how to respond with such a vague email, any thoughts? Jun 29 18:08:46 Mavrik: when a MediaRecorder isn't currently recording a video, it should still be able to show a preview, right? I can get it to show the preview while recording, but the surface isn't drawn when not recording Jun 29 18:09:32 mediarecorder doesn't do anything when it's not recording. Jun 29 18:09:36 you have to start camera preview manually. Jun 29 18:09:56 Ah okay, so at least I'm on the right path :P Jun 29 18:11:53 rofl stackexchange Jun 29 18:12:03 googled storing images in blobs came upon stack exchange Jun 29 18:12:10 i love these people who think blobs are stored on table Jun 29 18:12:24 "on table"? Jun 29 18:12:43 Mavrik, they think the blob data is stored with the rest of the columns in the table Jun 29 18:12:54 hmm Jun 29 18:12:55 so if you have a lot of columns the db server has to seek through the blobs Jun 29 18:13:00 in which DBMS? Jun 29 18:13:03 SamB_, which app is it? You could try to find out more about his device, etc. Jun 29 18:13:12 its not, an id is stored in the blob field (some rdbms actually expose that) and the id is used to access the actual blob Jun 29 18:13:22 LiENUS, again ,which DBMS? ;) Jun 29 18:13:36 storing blobs in DB is usually a rather terrible idea, unless you have a good DBMS Jun 29 18:13:36 Mavrik, any sane one, the guy was asking about mysql which afaik is doing off table blobs now, though thats "recent" (6 years iirc) Jun 29 18:14:13 but even then, most of the time the benefits just don't outweight the annoyances you get with huge DB tables Jun 29 18:14:17 is there database out there that doesnt do blobs in a sane way? Jun 29 18:14:20 and... please don't do that on Android Jun 29 18:14:26 sqlite is awful with large tables. Jun 29 18:14:29 Mavrik, his question was a php mysql question Jun 29 18:14:34 EPG: I'm not sure I developed a few for this company and thats all he said, he even took out the app info I add out of the subject line and replaced it with 'does not work' Jun 29 18:14:43 LiENUS, define sane? Jun 29 18:14:46 he was doing android app integration with a mysql backend Jun 29 18:14:58 Mavrik, well at this point mysql does blobs in a sane way Jun 29 18:15:22 what's sane in your case? what are the benefits? what are the downsides? :) Jun 29 18:15:26 SamB_, well, then you should first find out which app it is Jun 29 18:15:28 the question for each engineer. Jun 29 18:15:34 store a pointer to the blob in the column Jun 29 18:15:45 when blob is actually accessed at that point the blob data is messed with Jun 29 18:15:58 performance wise its equivalent to storing the images on the filesystem Jun 29 18:16:19 EPG: Thanks, asking for device type, app name, app version and exactly when the problem occurs Jun 29 18:16:21 yes, but it't not equvalent management wirse. Jun 29 18:16:23 *wise Jun 29 18:16:38 certainly not, backing up your data is far easier if you store images in blobs Jun 29 18:16:50 from a web perspective theres caching issues that make blobs seem slower Jun 29 18:17:56 and obviously none of this applies to sqllite you're right, blobs dont belong in sqllite Jun 29 18:18:58 http://www.sqlite.org/intern-v-extern-blob.html Jun 29 18:19:00 the number one reason these guys are saying not to do it is it'll slow down table access Jun 29 18:19:29 which hasn't been true in.... forever Jun 29 18:19:50 most of the decent database servers it hasnt been true since the beginning Jun 29 18:20:03 so according to this, page size of 8/16k with blobs < 100k is better in table Jun 29 18:20:06 (internal) Jun 29 18:20:44 g00s, interesting Jun 29 18:28:21 i tried creating a cms with the images stored as blobs, it didn't work out well Jun 29 18:29:04 < LiENUS> certainly not, backing up your data is far easier if you store images in blobs Jun 29 18:29:08 i would say the opposite Jun 29 18:29:26 with blobs you have huge database files, intermingling blobs and other data Jun 29 18:29:46 if you keep the blobs as files, you have small db files, and can manage the blobs as files expliclity Jun 29 18:29:55 plus, it makes CDNs, web caching, page speed and stuff like that really tedious Jun 29 18:30:02 Mavrik, cdn wont care Jun 29 18:30:16 web caching is extra work but only needs to be done once Jun 29 18:30:29 hitting your DB just to get a file is dumb Jun 29 18:30:31 page speed as in mod_pagespeed? shoudlnt care Jun 29 18:30:35 on any high-performance system Jun 29 18:30:36 shouldnt* Jun 29 18:30:43 especially when it can be done on a totally separate machine Jun 29 18:30:44 you have to hit the db just to get the file path Jun 29 18:30:54 yes. Jun 29 18:30:57 at that point what are you getting? a pointer to the file Jun 29 18:30:57 "just" Jun 29 18:30:59 ;) Jun 29 18:31:04 if you store it as a blob, what are you getting? Jun 29 18:31:07 a pointer to the file Jun 29 18:31:07 yes but that can be cached Jun 29 18:31:09 the pointer i mean Jun 29 18:31:13 the blobs can't Jun 29 18:31:30 some DBMS will cache blobs, but that trashes your data cache usually Jun 29 18:31:40 right they can't be cached because of cache size Jun 29 18:31:43 depending on configuration Jun 29 18:32:15 Mavrik: Other camera apps seems to work fine, just that I seem have a weird way to use the camera maybe? I don't have much experience with Android development, but I just can't see what I'm doing wrong. Permissions are set and I would assume you'd get a different error if they weren't. http://pastebin.com/WaePqW8P The LogCat output is at the end, it claims it can't connect to the camera right at line 92. That's even before I do Jun 29 18:32:16 anything with surfaces currently Jun 29 18:32:24 depends on where you're doing the caching, if you're having a cdn do the caching then theres no difference Jun 29 18:33:12 galaxyAbstractor, failed to connect to camera surface means you trashed the service and it's not running anymore Jun 29 18:33:16 it can be numerous reasons Jun 29 18:33:33 and i believe blob ids in most database servers are cachable Jun 29 18:33:37 galaxyAbstractor, did you stop preview and unlock the camera before passing it to the mediarecorder? Jun 29 18:33:53 LiENUS, of course there's a difference Jun 29 18:34:03 Mavrik: the app crashes before even being able to do anything with MediaRecorder Jun 29 18:34:07 you're eating away network, kernel and DBMS resources for stuff that's not needed Jun 29 18:34:37 galaxyAbstractor, I suggest you start with a simple example of preview then and work from there. Jun 29 18:34:46 your output is lacking information about what Jun 29 18:34:59 i know in the past companies like oracle recommended doing everything in the db, arguing it was superior to the filesystem Jun 29 18:35:05 thing is, filesystems have changed too Jun 29 18:35:05 And yeah, the preview is stopped and camera unlocked before the MediaRecorder is initialized Jun 29 18:35:19 interesting to read Instagram stores their blobs / pictures in postgresql Jun 29 18:35:25 my newest servers use zfs and that's a whole different beast than ext or ufs Jun 29 18:35:40 myke, my experience shows that Oracle was often full of shit Jun 29 18:36:02 myke, and was "recommending" stuff that sold more of their licenses and products instead of good engineering practices Jun 29 18:36:16 they are the reason I don't trust DBMS with anything above basic data storage anymore Jun 29 18:37:03 Mavrik: Oracle has pretty good stuff, IMO, but their support is very hit'n'miss, with more of the latter and I wouldn't trust the company... Jun 29 18:37:08 recommending stuff that quickly grew their DBs so you would have to invest in expensive master-master replication software, licenses and machines was typical trick they pulled off ;) Jun 29 18:37:12 then of course is a ton of shit written on top of it Jun 29 18:37:19 p_l, mhm, same experience here Jun 29 18:37:31 some of their software is very good, but trusting them is a whole other issue Jun 29 18:37:33 Mavrik: I don't think many people buy Oracle per se Jun 29 18:37:43 more are I think duped in by dependency Jun 29 18:37:56 at the last company i was at, the db2 admins always had a nice weekend, the oracle admins were always fighting a fire :) Jun 29 18:38:00 hmm, I've seen many public / corpo projects buy into Oracle due to their sales pressure Jun 29 18:38:27 g00s: if something burns with oracle, I'd rather have the expensive local oracle dba than fight with support that might not give a shit Jun 29 18:38:52 and my experience with their front-line support is that they can decide they don't give a shit when you lose 1/3rd of a core billing cluster Jun 29 18:39:04 at a platinum support buyer Jun 29 18:40:18 "oh, you have a 1 server node out of 3 keel over during your large export job, it's business critical cluster and you pay for highest level support?" Jun 29 18:40:24 anyway, the value of a good DBMS is in what happens when something goes wrong Jun 29 18:41:04 Mavrik: and even good DBMS won't save you (although it might save data you have already written) from shitty applications using cursors Jun 29 18:41:17 mhm Jun 29 18:41:37 leaking cursors is something I'd hunt people for, at least on Oracle where the dangling cursors slowly murder the database server Jun 29 18:42:48 myke: btw, filesystems are technically databases, too :) Jun 29 18:43:42 (ZFS is actually a hashtree-indexed hashmap stored in a tree... Makes more sense than some NoSQL things out there) Jun 29 18:43:50 mhm Jun 29 18:48:02 also, interesting thing to remember with storing data - sometimes you want to optimize certain behaviours so you need to either build custom file formats and index them, or implement a database-based thing that does it for you Jun 29 18:48:15 compare Facebook's PhotoFS or whatever it was called Jun 29 18:56:49 so, stupid question about the google TV stuff; is it possible to have my app running on a regular tablet, but cast its screen to a TV ? Jun 29 18:57:35 p_l: that was my point, the old advice was that a db would be much more sophisticated than a fs, but that's no longer true Jun 29 18:58:51 i was going to write a web frontend with a db-based index to handle call recordings...but after we copied the terabytes of wav files to zfs the directory traversals were so much faster that i don't think it's needed anymore Jun 29 18:59:21 uncle bob once said, that we only have dbms because we have slow hard drives Jun 29 18:59:21 i guess in a way just by copying them to zfs we did move them all into a database Jun 29 18:59:32 --> no slow hard drives means no need of dbms Jun 29 18:59:56 uncle bob said that? seems weird Jun 29 19:00:06 why? Jun 29 19:00:24 i would think durability Jun 29 19:00:33 we often say, sqlite is a replacement for fopen Jun 29 19:02:07 well, you would still ensure durability programmatically, but you can just use the FS as a storage instead of a special data format if the FS is just fast enough Jun 29 19:02:37 ohcibi do you have a link to that quote ? Jun 29 19:02:43 i'd like to read the context Jun 29 19:03:02 going fast is one thing, staying on the road is another ;) Jun 29 19:03:13 g00s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usxf3aLimtU Jun 29 19:03:18 ty Jun 29 19:03:27 g00s: the talk is about clojure but he chitchats a bit in the introduction Jun 29 19:03:46 there he tells this story about hard drives being as big as him when he starts workin as a programmer 8-) Jun 29 19:06:41 meh, I've kinda given up on zfs, gonna switch over to btrfs Jun 29 19:08:07 I like zfs, it's saved me from several disk failures, but the state of its development and support held by Oracle just isn't attractive Jun 29 19:08:51 ohcibi he's talking about clojure, did I miss it? Jun 29 19:08:58 ohcibi, filesystems don't really have a query system Jun 29 19:08:59 @5:00 Jun 29 19:09:42 g00s: what do you mean? it says clojure in the title? 8-) Jun 29 19:09:46 relations don't really exist in filesystems Jun 29 19:10:15 ohcibi right, waiting for the comment about databases, thought it was in the beginning chitchat but he's well into his presentation Jun 29 19:10:15 pfn: you have relations because of little space Jun 29 19:10:49 g00s: well, the talk is actually about monads, so I guess he is just giving a little clojure introduction Jun 29 19:10:56 ok Jun 29 19:11:31 using a filesystem as a database means you end up implementing all the features of a database yourself, sometimes that's what you need, but I don't think that outweighs the utility of a general purpose database Jun 29 19:11:36 g00s: he is not going into topic until 20:00 at least Jun 29 19:13:02 pfn: well the arguement is about storage and accessability in terms of speed - here dbms have special formats and tricks that are unnecessary with fast and big space, so you can in fact utilize something like sqlite or anything that just uses the file-system as a storage Jun 29 19:15:15 g00s: just found it.. starts at 18:00 Jun 29 19:15:28 he's talking about coddling threads now :D Jun 29 19:15:52 g00s: well its not that this talk is completely uninteresting except for this dbms-bit 8-) Jun 29 19:16:12 oh yeah i like uncle bob; has a few great books Jun 29 19:16:18 myke: a filesystem won't perform schema enforcement nor advanced querying for you Jun 29 19:16:37 and at some point you might want lower RTT that comes from the latter Jun 29 19:16:38 the part about monads is especially interesting Jun 29 19:17:26 ohcibi: even with fast drives you want special data structures, indexing etc. Jun 29 19:17:55 p_l: thats all true, but thats nothing special to rdbms Jun 29 19:18:17 you can implement data structures and indexing on a fs-base.. well its already done in some fss Jun 29 19:18:36 ohcibi: not to the R part, but you still might want advanced querying and schema enforcement Jun 29 19:18:47 as well as data-driven access patterns Jun 29 19:18:59 How do i get the current view? Jun 29 19:20:03 p_l: maybe, but you don't need custom uncopyable data-storages for it.. you can use the fs if its fast and big enough Jun 29 19:20:26 ohcibi: which changes... nothing Jun 29 19:20:45 except maybe the fact that your aren't using Oracle's weird raw-disk storage thingy Jun 29 19:20:53 but that's Oracle Jun 29 19:21:31 well, postgres does the very same thing, db2, mssql mysql (ok oracle) Jun 29 19:22:23 hello Jun 29 19:22:24 How do i get the current view? Jun 29 19:22:25 is it possible to control the audio that is sent and received over a normal phone call with the android APIs ? Jun 29 19:22:32 ina fragment, how do I get the view? Jun 29 19:22:33 ohcibi: no, they use files in filesystem. Oracle can do that, or use its very special thingy (which makes a bit more sense when you consider the fact that iirc it can be accessed simultaneously from multiple machines) Jun 29 19:22:47 ordex, no. Jun 29 19:22:55 p_l: tell me the files, i need to copy to make a consistent backup of a psql database Jun 29 19:22:56 fortet: with getView() Jun 29 19:23:10 Mavrik: am I Wrong or there are some app that change your voices or adds sounds to the call ? Jun 29 19:23:17 *apps Jun 29 19:23:52 ohcibi: you can't get consistent backup of even normal files without help from application, what makes you think anything that has complex I/O will be easier? Jun 29 19:24:25 (that said, it gets a bit easier if you have point-in-time snapshotting and can synchronize the writers with that) Jun 29 19:25:01 Can somebody please explain the point of Intents to me? Jun 29 19:25:16 ordex, if there are, they're not using official Android APIs Jun 29 19:25:29 Mavrik: ah ok, thanks! Jun 29 19:25:43 p_l: that is what i am talking about. you dont need a dbms if a filesystem does this things for you Jun 29 19:26:09 and point-in-time snapshotting is not all.. you can have non-redundancy without any kind of relation Jun 29 19:26:10 ohcibi: except filesystems *can't* do it for you because they have no idea about data being stored Jun 29 19:26:12 yfs Jun 29 19:26:15 zfs Jun 29 19:26:29 p_l: you think im talking about ntfs and fat? Jun 29 19:26:32 or ext? Jun 29 19:26:56 ohcibi: FYI, NTFS actually has transactional API for applications. ZFS' ZPL doesn't. Jun 29 19:27:11 * p_l is up his ears in ZFS implementation details Jun 29 19:27:28 p_l: i meant the non-redundancy part of zfs.. wasnt that a feature of zfs? Jun 29 19:27:50 ohcibi: ZFS is about *redundancy*, not removing it Jun 29 19:28:08 unless you mean deduplication, which is a horrible monster sent to plague SAN admins Jun 29 19:28:11 p_l: and i dont understand why you dont understand me what I mean when you already know about a FS, that does dbms-like things for you... you only need to make up a FS that is even smarter, and you get the point 8-) Jun 29 19:28:28 ohcibi: then you have built a dbms Jun 29 19:28:41 which is what OS/400 does Jun 29 19:28:46 p_l: did you watch the talk? Jun 29 19:29:09 p_l: i didnt paste the link directly to you, so maybe you missed it Jun 29 19:29:12 ohcibi: what talk? I started talking databases here due to Mavrik mentioning crapacle Jun 29 19:29:59 Hello, I'm using Android Studio v0.8.1 on Windows 8.1 for my project. I use Jenkins as well for creating nightly builds on a linux server. Both machines have ANDROID_HOME set. My problem is that Android Studio expects "sdk.dir" path in local.properties files that's why my jenkins build fails. How do I specify ANDROID_HOME so that builds will work cross-platform? Jun 29 19:30:51 for power saving with the gps component, after how many time between update do you think it's better to call requestSingleUpdate() in a loop with a sleep instead of requestLocationUpdates() ? Jun 29 19:31:04 p_l: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usxf3aLimtU around 18:00 uncle bob explains this point, he is clearly talking about the future and not saying that we should dump all dbms right now Jun 29 19:31:16 is it possible to set the visibility for a whole layout (like a tablelayout) rather than individual elements? Jun 29 19:31:38 ohcibi: then it goes essentially using DBMS as FS Jun 29 19:32:10 also, redoing a lot of work to implement complex algorithm in every application is fun. NOT Jun 29 19:33:09 is the parent of a view the layout? Jun 29 19:35:54 p_l: now you lost track somehow.. nobody said that one should reimplement complex algorithms, watch the talk, listen what he says, get what I mean and see that its actually not that destructive as you've thought in the first place 8-) Jun 29 19:37:39 ohcibi: eh, sometimes I feel like the fact that I learned about computing from books old enough to not give a damn about semantic differences between DBMS and filesystem makes react pretty meh to all that :P Jun 29 19:38:37 (a filesystem is case of a database management system, a database is what you store on a computer, etc...) Jun 29 19:38:52 and a database is composed of datasets ;) Jun 29 19:39:01 p_l: well i guess thats somehow part of the point.. there is no much difference between the too and with space that is big and fast enough you can forget about the difference and just take them as one Jun 29 19:39:10 *the two Jun 29 19:40:52 ohcibi: the real difference will be always in the actual algorithms involved in storing data. When it's something different than nontransactional storage of blobs, I'm forced to use something that won't be as portable as typical filesystem interface, even if it will be a thin wrapper around ZFS' DMU Jun 29 19:41:23 (though technically you can implement transactions to certain point with rename() calls) Jun 29 19:42:09 that is, of course, if you need transactions for blobs Jun 29 19:42:32 Mavrik: yes Jun 29 19:42:57 but when I go at scale, I might seriously need them at certain level :) Jun 29 19:43:59 might not be filesystem level sometimes, though (on ZFS, all in same dataset: open a file with randomized name in separate directory, write, sync, rename <--- very, very simplistic barrier, should actually work on nearly all *nix filesystems) Jun 29 19:44:27 well alot of times the blobs are just upload-distribute-and-forget type stuff Jun 29 19:44:31 videos, images, stuff like that Jun 29 19:44:32 but I still might need a higher level transaction informing that I have enough replicas etc. Jun 29 19:45:00 and, at least with systems I worked with, we had separate daemons taking care of replication and management of those Jun 29 19:45:03 i.e. the return of transaction informs me that I have ensured the data is written and can safely forget about it Jun 29 19:45:10 (because usually we had to process, transcode etc.) Jun 29 19:46:55 Mavrik: I was thinking of process like this: phone uploads a photo -> frontend passes it to backend service ---[server*3]---> write operation ---> once 2 servers have confirmed write, return "save satisfied" to frontend ---> frontend forgets transaction or reports failure to client Jun 29 19:47:13 Instagram actually had a lot of good material about how they built their system to ensure maximum speed etc. Jun 29 19:50:04 mhm Jun 29 19:51:46 for example, starting upload as soon as user took the photo Jun 29 19:52:55 if the user decides to discard it, they canceled the upload if it was still happening, or in some way informed the server to discard the photo (could be done with timeout and hash of the photo being sent as part of "save" command following the upload) Jun 29 20:02:00 Hi, I've just downloaded the bundled SDK, but when I create a project in Eclipse, there are no files in the src/ directory, the tutorial says a hello world file should be available Jun 29 20:08:34 How do I make use of the barometer that the nexus 5 apparently has? Jun 29 20:14:14 Haz oh yeah forgot about that; is the trend with newer hardware to include one of those ? Jun 29 20:14:26 I have no idea Jun 29 20:14:59 I was just wondering what the thing on the top right corner just above the screen was and I looked at the nexus 5 specs on wikipedia on noticed it had a barometer Jun 29 20:15:28 there's a barometer in N4 as well Jun 29 20:15:43 it shows as a normal sensor with single numeric output Jun 29 20:16:08 is it ever actually used? Jun 29 20:16:43 Haz: no idea, though I actually have a design for external accessory that involves hi-resolution pressure sensors... Jun 29 20:33:55 if all that is differeing between normal and large layout is textsizes then I could do with only one layout right? and have different values for that? values and valus-large. Jun 29 20:34:34 mhm. Jun 29 20:36:57 mhm=yes? Jun 29 20:43:44 Hello, i have tried the Hello World tutorial on the Android developer site and it does not work. There are no files in the src directory. Jun 29 20:46:00 anyone setup a avd with L and tried connecting it to a wear AVD? Jun 29 20:46:29 hmm. Haven't tried with L, since you need a bunch of pre-release sw from market... Jun 29 20:46:39 hm Jun 29 20:46:50 * p_l got the stuff running on his kitkat Jun 29 20:46:57 kinda pissed that theres no good description on how to get stuff up and running Jun 29 20:47:17 kinda weird that it shouldnt work just fine using L Jun 29 20:49:15 serrghi: I have no idea - it's possible that the L images have Play Service v5 already Jun 29 20:51:11 I think they actually do have new them Jun 29 20:53:38 sigh.. Jun 29 20:53:43 fuck wearable right now. Jun 29 20:54:13 serrghi: ehh, it works on KK easily :P Jun 29 20:54:51 and I'd rather concentrate on that, given that Play Store for Android Wear is supposed to be a go in ~9 days Jun 29 20:58:00 p_l: yea, it just annoys me that they couldnt bother making it work together with L when they released it Jun 29 20:58:51 especially when Wearables and L were the big stuff on IO, it should work easily together from the start Jun 29 20:59:04 serrghi: anyway, try sideloading the android wear application, which should be the main difference if any Jun 29 20:59:19 and remember to setup the forwarding between wear emulator and L emulator Jun 29 21:03:34 Haz: p_l baramoter helps to get a faster GPS fix Jun 29 21:04:36 how architecturally right or wrong is to share objects between fragments and activities instead of using callbacks? E.g.: some people pass an edittext to the timepicker dialogfragment, others just handle the time set in a callback. Jun 29 21:07:49 is there an official irc channel for MIT app inventor 2? Jun 29 21:08:46 wait what icedp? Jun 29 21:08:50 how? Jun 29 21:09:30 any reason for an npe at line 63? http://pastebin.com/3JFCbjQg Jun 29 21:09:31 can someone help me come up with a good name for my app Jun 29 21:09:58 Haz: by providing altitude information Jun 29 21:10:33 you can theoretically speed up acquiring a GPS fix with that, I guess, but usually you get fix in 2D, not 3D, first Jun 29 21:19:46 jamesson: pairedDevices.size() Jun 29 21:19:58 you should check that it is not null, Jun 29 21:20:31 basketball: link? Jun 29 21:20:46 lasserix_, it isnt in the play store Jun 29 21:21:16 how we supposed to help you name it? Jun 29 21:21:41 it is an magic 8 ball app where you import a picture of someone or something and then shake or tap screen to get response Jun 29 21:22:33 object oracle Jun 29 21:24:56 whats that Jun 29 21:25:59 a suggestion Jun 29 21:26:40 lasserix_, i need one that includes magic 8 ball in the name because when someone searces magic 8 ball i want it to show up Jun 29 21:27:02 sure you're not going to get cp pegged? Jun 29 21:27:11 whats that Jun 29 21:27:18 magic object 8 ball Jun 29 21:27:35 Turn your phone into an oracle! Jun 29 21:27:40 lasserix_: int theLength = pairedDevices.length(); compiles and runs without error, I dont know if thats definitive Jun 29 21:28:19 jamesson: dunno, then, its either getBaseContext or pairedDevices, why not use debugger? Jun 29 21:28:49 lasserix_: I did, it was... uninformative, it seemed to give only the line Jun 29 21:29:40 you need to use breakpoint, then check which one of those object references is null Jun 29 21:29:54 you should be able to hover your mouse over each, and see if it is null Jun 29 21:30:25 are you sure pairedDevices isn't null? Jun 29 21:30:37 did you include bluetooth permission in your manifest? Jun 29 21:34:20 When your application throws an exception and you catch it, what do you do? Do you do e.printStackTrace();, or Log.e(), or do you display an AlertDialog? Jun 29 21:34:28 lasserix_: yup. And, it gets the bt adapter without any problem. Jun 29 21:34:50 lasserix_: I havent used breakpoint debugging yet, reading about it now Jun 29 21:34:51 logging is for you, alerts are for your users Jun 29 21:35:05 smallfoot-: the exception is for the developer, you are supposed to handle the exception if possible, Jun 29 21:35:30 not that if you e.printstacktrace it'll output to logcat so if you release in production / non-debug mode people will be able to see how your app "crashes" Jun 29 21:35:51 you can use acra to silenetly handle it, by forwarding it to you Jun 29 21:35:59 LaSombra, well if it throws an exception, then there is not much I can do Jun 29 21:36:12 lasserix_, whats acra? Jun 29 21:36:29 lasserix_, well if it throws an exception, then there is not much I can do Jun 29 21:36:30 free/open source crash reporter Jun 29 21:36:48 you can do lots of things, ie retry or whatever Jun 29 21:37:01 lasserix_, is it a bad idea to have e.printStackTrace(); in release builds? Is it a bad idea to have Log.e() in release-builds? Jun 29 21:37:02 if you are developing an api you can propogate the exception Jun 29 21:37:08 smallfoot-: yeah it is Jun 29 21:37:18 yes for both? Jun 29 21:37:19 usually you want to use a static enum log wrapper with a boolean Jun 29 21:37:21 yeah Jun 29 21:37:23 oh Jun 29 21:37:35 then boolean isInDebug = true/false will print to log or not Jun 29 21:37:41 I see Jun 29 21:37:55 on release, if there is an exception, should I call AlertDialog? Jun 29 21:38:33 uh Jun 29 21:38:41 ie static enum Logger { instance; private static boolean isDebug = true; public void setDebugMode(boolean debugMode) { isDebug = debugMode; } public static log(String tag, String msg) { if (isDebug) { Log.d(tag, msg); } } Jun 29 21:38:46 no Jun 29 21:38:56 smallfoot-, if you remove stack traces in release builds you won't be able to get any detailed reports from the users ;) Jun 29 21:38:57 not unless you want your users seeing why your app would be crashing Jun 29 21:39:10 that's why you use acra Jun 29 21:39:19 ACRA will grab only last reported erro Jun 29 21:39:20 or some other logger, that will forward your stack traces/ exceptions silently Jun 29 21:39:25 no it won't Jun 29 21:39:28 Mavrik, so release builds should call e.printStackTrace(); when catching exception? Jun 29 21:39:34 and will not allow you to debug issues which have been caused by cascade of events. Jun 29 21:39:50 it's silly to limit yourself for... what_ Jun 29 21:40:01 smallfoot-, depends what kind of exceptions Jun 29 21:40:24 Are there any code examples of Material Design currently available? Jun 29 21:40:26 there are exceptions that are totally expected and should be handled (e.g. IOExceptions on network, running out of disk space, etc.) Jun 29 21:40:35 for fatal errors I've seen no gain in hiding them Jun 29 21:40:46 using ACRA or Crashlytics to collect them is a good idea tho Jun 29 21:45:08 Mavrik, so what do I do if i get a IOEXception or network exception? Jun 29 21:46:12 g00s: how expensive is it to call notifyDatasetChanged() in an onNext? is GC still an issue ? Jun 29 21:55:55 where can I find source code of some android app developed by google engineers with high code quality, to learn how they do it? Jun 29 21:56:08 google grep android source Jun 29 21:56:26 i think they also release like the app they make for IO Jun 29 21:56:29 but android isnt an android app Jun 29 22:09:40 Is there a way to just make a stroke on the sides of a shape? Jun 29 22:14:48 smallfoot-: all the built-in apps in AOSP are. Jun 29 22:15:26 hey, Im trying to decompile an apk but I get classes called aa,ab,ac,ad,b,ba,bb etc. And importing it to eclipse gives a bunch of errors. The apk is ShareKM and the file can be gotten here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ynyvt3aykp1r8va/com.liveov.skm-1.apk Jun 29 22:17:01 I tried androchef java decompiler and decompileandroid.com Jun 29 22:17:21 are there software that does a better job? Jun 29 22:18:01 they probably ran the .apk through ProGuard, it scrambles it so make it hard to decompile Jun 29 22:18:08 Heya Jun 29 22:19:11 yeah that's what progruard ouput looks like Jun 29 22:19:38 I really only want to edit one of the .java files (which is in clear text and fine) Jun 29 22:19:55 is there a way to do that but leave everything else the way it is? Jun 29 22:25:29 how do I give values like width in dp if I use a constant? like @integer/width_blah ? Jun 29 22:30:58 ? Jun 29 22:32:12 can someone help me come up with a good name for my app Jun 29 22:34:09 whats it about? Jun 29 22:34:30 it is an magic 8 ball app where you import a picture of someone or something and then shake or tap screen to get response Jun 29 22:43:40 "If you don't know how to name your app, use an ikea product name" - someone said once Jun 29 22:45:12 ^ lol Jun 29 22:52:05 <_Ravage_> I'm reviewing android development for the first time and going through the basic training here http://developer.android.com/training/basics/firstapp/running-app.html It talks about sdkverion information in the androidmanifest.xml file, but with Android Studio, these values are not in the manifest, is this expected? Jun 29 22:52:30 * basketball goes to ikea.com Jun 29 22:55:49 _Ravage_: gradle does a lot of the fun now Jun 29 22:56:29 <_Ravage_> ahh ok, I see that now Jun 29 22:56:53 <_Ravage_> thanks Jun 29 23:09:26 _Ravage_: look up documents about "manifest merging" in gradle Jun 29 23:28:41 i am creating a temporary table in sqlite via android sqlitehelper in order to create it i use execsql to access it will i be able to with a subsequent raw query? Jun 29 23:46:16 yea Jun 30 00:36:50 what is the best ad server i can use for my apps legally if i am under 18 Jun 30 00:36:54 year of age Jun 30 00:43:21 i need help. Jun 30 00:43:30 i only have 1 GB left on my hard drive and i'm trying to set up LIB GDX Jun 30 00:43:56 it said I don't have the JDK installed or my home path configured. Soo... the build failed. I generally know what to do but I'm also a bit lost Jun 30 00:47:46 anyone able to get an android tv emulator to work? Jun 30 00:49:34 what is the best ad server i can use for my apps legally if i am under 18 Jun 30 00:50:12 pornhub Jun 30 00:51:30 i have to be older than 18 for that site Jun 30 00:54:29 it's working! Jun 30 00:54:49 tried to pick the most default settings (including ARM) Jun 30 00:59:58 rdnt_: works for me with x86 Jun 30 01:00:10 funnily enough, works better than the smart tv at home :> Jun 30 01:33:09 are there any infos on google fit yet? like when the API will be released? Jun 30 01:45:24 why does gradle compile so slow? Jun 30 01:45:54 ultra i was trying to set up LIBGDX Jun 30 01:46:06 is gradle entirely seperate Jun 30 01:48:00 all i know is that it’s doing the compiling in android studio and i think it’s slow Jun 30 01:52:16 gradle is a build dependency injector Jun 30 01:52:38 android team decided to make it part of android studio to make managing your dependencies easier Jun 30 01:52:51 i believe to use libgdx these days you need to use android studio Jun 30 01:52:54 and hence gradle Jun 30 01:53:57 maybe the last update that i didn’t install is faster Jun 30 01:58:16 anyway to close edditext? Jun 30 01:58:21 editText.clearFocus() not working Jun 30 01:59:12 for a tablet app, is it good enough to test against nexus 7 and nexus 10 to check layout Jun 30 01:59:57 my interface is 100% code and bases it all on screen size Jun 30 02:01:43 if i run a query with sqlitedatabasehelper to create a temporary table with execsql will i be able to access it with subsequent calls via rawquery? Jun 30 02:06:04 jaspertheghost: yes Jun 30 02:06:12 ultra-: you're probably fine Jun 30 02:06:55 thank you Jun 30 02:11:00 ok Jun 30 02:40:45 lasserix: when did gradle become required for libgdx/ Jun 30 02:40:55 dunno recently? Jun 30 02:41:02 i was trying out some demo libgdx projects in AS just a few months qago Jun 30 02:41:15 err Jun 30 02:41:18 not AS Jun 30 02:41:20 ADT Jun 30 02:50:20 from within a broadcast reciever if i want to discontinue the reciever from firing in the future will this work context.unregisterReceiver(NetworkChangeReceiver.this); Jun 30 02:56:02 you don't have to do it from within the broadcast reciever but yeah that's the idea **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 30 03:00:00 2014