**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 24 02:59:59 2014
Dec 24 03:00:44 <Leeds> there really should be some car industry consortium putting together a standard - shouldn't need to choose your car to be compatible with your phone
Dec 24 03:00:48 <Leeds> but everything's a platform grab
Dec 24 03:03:41 <pfn> g00s, your car already has computers
Dec 24 03:03:51 <pfn> unless it's carbureted
Dec 24 03:04:21 <g00s> yeah but they dont have radios, internet connections
Dec 24 03:07:16 <drinfernoo> i still never figured it out pfn :(
Dec 24 03:10:45 <HevvyMetal> btw when did google officially announce AS as depcrating eclipse and they would no longer support eclipse/
Dec 24 03:10:58 <drinfernoo> couple weeks ago
Dec 24 03:11:17 <HevvyMetal> who else is using AS in here by the way? Everyone goin through a painful switch or sticking with eclipse for now or what?
Dec 24 03:11:27 <drinfernoo> next question, if i have an enterTransition and a sharedElementEnterTransition, they overlap and it looks like its doing both at once to my shared elements. anyway to fix that?
Dec 24 03:11:31 <HevvyMetal> was it the same time as lollipop came out drinfernoo ?
Dec 24 03:11:59 <drinfernoo> no it was when AS 1.0 was released
Dec 24 03:13:34 <HevvyMetal> heh not even 1.01?
Dec 24 03:13:38 <HevvyMetal> that's ballsy
Dec 24 03:15:16 <drinfernoo> if i use either of the transitions by themselves, it works as expected, but not with both
Dec 24 03:15:33 <drinfernoo> id like to animate my content, as well as my shared elements, but with different animations
Dec 24 03:18:47 <pfn> there is no method
Dec 24 03:18:56 <pfn> you do it by emulating a drawer
Dec 24 03:19:01 <pfn> that's what I told you
Dec 24 03:20:36 <drinfernoo> but i cant figure out how the drawer does it
Dec 24 03:20:59 <drinfernoo> i get that i need to do what the drawer does, but there isnt any clear way to see how it does it
Dec 24 03:21:41 <drinfernoo> i looked at the source, and the only thing i can figure out is that it might have to do with DrawerArrowDrawableToggle, but thats inaccessible
Dec 24 03:31:51 <HevvyMetal> so which app did you use leanback in Leeds? What's the latest leanback that still works with 4.4.4?
Dec 24 03:32:30 <Leeds> HevvyMetal: I'm not sure how "I'm not doing anything with it" is confusing...
Dec 24 03:32:58 <HevvyMetal> well you said that "you were happy with the leanback thing" or somethign so it sounds like you must hae done something with it?
Dec 24 03:33:46 <Leeds> when did I say that?
Dec 24 03:37:29 <HevvyMetal> oh it was jackwharton who said taht sorry leeds
Dec 24 03:37:47 <HevvyMetal> so jackwharton what are you doing with the leanback library? and where do I found the settings to autodownload source and javadoc
Dec 24 03:37:54 <drinfernoo> pfn, can you point me towards any source that might have the implementation im looking for?
Dec 24 03:38:14 <g00s> HevvyMetal gotta get the details straight, not Jack, Jake !
Dec 24 03:38:28 <g00s> lol, lots of confusion :)
Dec 24 03:38:28 <Leeds> Jack's his evil twin
Dec 24 03:38:50 <HevvyMetal> huh?
Dec 24 03:38:55 <HevvyMetal> jakewharton
Dec 24 03:39:10 <HevvyMetal> jakewharton what are you doing with the leanback library? and where do I found the settings to autodownload source and javadoc :)
Dec 24 03:39:27 <Leeds> I am not now, nor have I ever been, JakeWharton (or Jack)
Dec 24 03:39:30 <drinfernoo> try JakeWharton
Dec 24 03:39:32 <drinfernoo> lol
Dec 24 03:39:37 <bilb_ono> does anyone know of stores that sell nfc tags? or do I have to buy them online?
Dec 24 03:40:31 <pfn> drinfernoo, call the on drawer methods
Dec 24 03:40:50 <drinfernoo> none of them do it
Dec 24 03:40:52 <Leeds> bilb_ono: I'd imagine I could get some in Wanchai - or SSP, at worst
Dec 24 03:42:19 <pfn> drinfernoo, they do
Dec 24 03:42:32 <bilb_ono> Leeds, lol what? are those stores?
Dec 24 03:42:46 <Leeds> bilb_ono: nah, they're neighbourhoods with well-known computer markets
Dec 24 03:43:25 <Leeds> I guess I'd start by asking at the little computer market 5 minutes walk away from my place...
Dec 24 03:44:17 <Leeds> bilb_ono: this is my possibly-too-subtle way of suggesting that a store near you isn't the same as a store near other people here
Dec 24 03:46:14 <bilb_ono> ah subtlety is not my strong suit
Dec 24 03:46:18 <bilb_ono> in either direction
Dec 24 03:46:32 <bilb_ono> but so yes. stores have them. like best buy?
Dec 24 03:46:44 <bilb_ono> i buy all electronics online so i don't even know where I would get them
Dec 24 03:46:45 <bilb_ono> frys?
Dec 24 03:47:17 <drinfernoo> ok so, onDrawerSlide() takes a float, so it gets me halfway through the animation
Dec 24 03:47:27 <drinfernoo> hold on
Dec 24 03:47:40 <Leeds> worth calling frys and asking, I'd think
Dec 24 03:52:03 <drinfernoo> i tried looping in a for, but its pretty much instant
Dec 24 03:53:22 <HevvyMetal> the sho wimiage thumbnails in AS seems winky is there another way to do that?
Dec 24 03:57:48 <drinfernoo> not even if i put in a wait
Dec 24 04:00:03 <g00s> "Offices everywhere are emptying as people head home for a few days of light dining and constructive political conversations with relatives."
Dec 24 04:00:04 <g00s> lol
Dec 24 04:00:11 <drinfernoo> Leeds, why not just buy them online? lol
Dec 24 04:00:26 <Leeds> drinfernoo: maybe he wants them right now?
Dec 24 04:02:03 <Marlinski> I don't really get what happens if I create some threads and then I close the application, what happens to the thread ?
Dec 24 04:02:14 <drinfernoo> oh yeah huh lol
Dec 24 04:02:32 <drinfernoo> i thought it was you that wanted them in the first place
Dec 24 04:03:04 <g00s> Marlinski if your process isn't killed, nothing
Dec 24 04:03:07 <g00s> *if* :)
Dec 24 04:03:54 <Marlinski> what would kill the process then ? only the gc ?
Dec 24 04:04:02 <Leeds> what's with people confusing me for other people today? :)
Dec 24 04:04:11 <Marlinski> cause I have some weird exception thrown by the finalizer :)
Dec 24 04:06:15 <Marlinski> g00s: another question, I have a static final variable in my Application (extends Application), if a quit the activity, it is going to be lost isn
Dec 24 04:06:18 <Marlinski> t it
Dec 24 04:06:34 <g00s> not unless the process is killed
Dec 24 04:06:40 <Marlinski> I see
Dec 24 04:06:56 <Marlinski> so if I want to prevent the process to be killed, my only solution is to use a foreground service right ?
Dec 24 04:07:07 <drinfernoo> anyone know why my enter and sharedElementEnter transitions are conflicting?
Dec 24 04:07:29 <McJuicy> has anyone done any low level networking programming on android - like transferring packets between a wifi connection and an LTE / GSM connection? Looking for a place to start on this project.
Dec 24 04:07:34 <g00s> Marlinski in general, a service
Dec 24 04:08:01 <Marlinski> McJuicy: for GSM you should look into the code of TextSecure
Dec 24 04:08:14 <McJuicy> ah yes. I have done some commits for them
Dec 24 04:08:23 <McJuicy> not sure that it is what I'm looking for though
Dec 24 04:08:40 <Marlinski> g00s: ok thank you :)
Dec 24 04:09:20 <Leeds> Marlinski: surely, if you want to persist data, the answer is to persist the data, not the process which holds the data in RAM?
Dec 24 04:09:41 <Marlinski> Leeds: I don't want to persist data, I want to persist process
Dec 24 04:09:52 <McJuicy> Marlinski: real quick the problem: connect to a client via wifi - transfer / route packets between wifi and LTE connection on device
Dec 24 04:09:56 <Leeds> you were asking about losing a variable
Dec 24 04:10:08 <Marlinski> Leeds: the variable is actually an "instance" :)
Dec 24 04:10:29 <Marlinski> McJuicy: you mean tethering ?
Dec 24 04:10:49 <Marlinski> McJuicy: or a kind of tethering
Dec 24 04:10:58 <McJuicy> Marlinski: at the heart of it yes. but I want to build a mesh network
Dec 24 04:11:04 <Marlinski> oh interesting
Dec 24 04:11:04 <McJuicy> I've looked at some code for barnacle
Dec 24 04:11:16 <Marlinski> I am into it ;)
Dec 24 04:11:20 <McJuicy> haha
Dec 24 04:11:21 <McJuicy> :)
Dec 24 04:11:23 <Marlinski> What kind of mesh network
Dec 24 04:11:32 <Marlinski> are you planning to implement your own routing protocol ?
Dec 24 04:11:39 <McJuicy> I don't want to require a rom or root
Dec 24 04:11:55 <McJuicy> I don't think I can by myself complete all the tools necessary
Dec 24 04:12:00 <McJuicy> or the whole stack
Dec 24 04:12:02 <McJuicy> only some of it
Dec 24 04:12:29 <Marlinski> ok so you are probably going to implement over TCP/UDP
Dec 24 04:12:34 <McJuicy> peer discovery itself is just too insane. Trying to come up with POC and possible attract investments
Dec 24 04:12:57 <McJuicy> last requirement - have to be able to monitor how much data has passed
Dec 24 04:13:01 <McJuicy> to the client
Dec 24 04:13:16 <Marlinski> is it a project of your own ?
Dec 24 04:13:28 <McJuicy> there are 2 of us
Dec 24 04:13:35 <McJuicy> one as an advisor
Dec 24 04:13:45 <Marlinski> anyway, without root you will have to do "application level mesh network"
Dec 24 04:13:46 <Marlinski> kind of
Dec 24 04:13:57 <McJuicy> high level routing
Dec 24 04:14:10 <McJuicy> I don't want to limit the services we support though
Dec 24 04:14:11 <Marlinski> sort of, you won't be able to tunnel firefox through your mesh network
Dec 24 04:14:15 <Marlinski> that
Dec 24 04:14:16 <Marlinski> s the problem
Dec 24 04:14:29 <McJuicy> have to host a web view or something
Dec 24 04:14:32 <McJuicy> yea...
Dec 24 04:14:37 <Marlinski> hmm let me think
Dec 24 04:15:20 <Marlinski> maybe using proxy
Dec 24 04:15:37 <Marlinski> but that will require configuration of every application
Dec 24 04:15:57 <McJuicy> I think I have to be way down there in the stack
Dec 24 04:16:19 <McJuicy> root phone -> light layer between some sort of masq
Dec 24 04:16:27 <McJuicy> relay packets
Dec 24 04:16:55 <McJuicy> mobile might be something to do later
Dec 24 04:17:29 <Marlinski> If rooted device is not within your assumption you won't be able to do a "real" IP mesh network
Dec 24 04:18:00 <Marlinski> Actually I am doing a mesh networking application
Dec 24 04:18:04 <Marlinski> but I do it on application level
Dec 24 04:18:10 <McJuicy> ah :)
Dec 24 04:18:14 <McJuicy> how's your latency?
Dec 24 04:18:27 <Marlinski> haven't done test yet
Dec 24 04:18:30 <McJuicy> and what are you using for peer discovery?
Dec 24 04:18:37 <Marlinski> a protocol of my own
Dec 24 04:18:40 <McJuicy> very cool
Dec 24 04:19:06 <Marlinski> bluetooth+wifi
Dec 24 04:19:09 <McJuicy> you mess with CJDns at all?
Dec 24 04:19:24 <Marlinski> mess ?
Dec 24 04:19:30 <Marlinski> you mean if I know cjdns ?
Dec 24 04:19:35 <Marlinski> I played with it a little
Dec 24 04:20:10 <McJuicy> Caleb from CJDns doesn't believe in mesh networks anymore lol
Dec 24 04:20:16 <McJuicy> I emailed him asking a few questions
Dec 24 04:20:44 <Marlinski> McJuicy: wait for 802.11s to be the norm
Dec 24 04:20:46 <Marlinski> :)
Dec 24 04:21:21 <McJuicy> wow
Dec 24 04:21:39 <Marlinski> http://open80211s.org/
Dec 24 04:22:03 <Marlinski> it already works with Linux but there is no API yet for android
Dec 24 04:22:23 <McJuicy> thanks for showing me this
Dec 24 04:23:14 <McJuicy> If I get anything going I'll be sure to link you up ;)
Dec 24 04:23:24 <McJuicy> gotta be open source
Dec 24 04:24:12 <Marlinski> mesh networking in Android is demoralizing though
Dec 24 04:24:18 <Marlinski> I mean true mesh networking
Dec 24 04:24:57 <Marlinski> There is a ticket open since 7 years to support ad hoc mode in android https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82&cnum=500&cstart=63
Dec 24 04:24:59 <McJuicy> an implementation would probably have to get accepted into AOSP before they mainlined it
Dec 24 04:25:10 <g00s> i'm hoping the opengarden guys can overcome !
Dec 24 04:25:21 <McJuicy> wish they were still open source
Dec 24 04:25:27 <Marlinski> hehe
Dec 24 04:25:27 <McJuicy> they are hiring btw
Dec 24 04:26:20 <Marlinski> wait for it :)
Dec 24 04:30:12 <McJuicy> Marlinski: last Q. Where's a good place to start with network programming (reference / book / project)?
Dec 24 04:30:49 <Marlinski> McJuicy: seriously just try :)
Dec 24 04:30:53 <McJuicy> :)
Dec 24 04:30:55 <McJuicy> kk
Dec 24 04:30:58 <Marlinski> McJuicy: this project was my first for android
Dec 24 04:31:20 <McJuicy> I've done a lot of android in the past... But I'm not sure this is the place to start here
Dec 24 04:31:28 <McJuicy> it would definitely be application layer
Dec 24 04:31:42 <McJuicy> in Parcels or Serialized objects
Dec 24 04:31:50 <McJuicy> the only problem is the limitation of service
Dec 24 04:31:53 <McJuicy> (s)
Dec 24 04:33:23 <Marlinski> McJuicy: lower your expectation as what you can do with mesh network on android though
Dec 24 04:33:34 <Marlinski> McJuicy: look at Serval for instance
Dec 24 04:33:58 <Marlinski> It is very bulky and buggy and needs root, but it works (sometime)
Dec 24 04:34:16 <McJuicy> yea. I was reading a bit about this
Dec 24 04:34:23 <McJuicy> works on 2.3 though
Dec 24 04:34:27 <Marlinski> it does
Dec 24 04:35:10 <McJuicy> yea. I'll give it a go
Dec 24 04:36:18 <Marlinski> define your use case first
Dec 24 04:36:18 <McJuicy> didn't realize it was open source
Dec 24 04:36:45 <McJuicy> resell your extra bandwidth ;)
Dec 24 04:36:56 <Marlinski> oh
Dec 24 04:36:57 <Marlinski> nice
Dec 24 04:37:06 <McJuicy> trustless
Dec 24 04:37:49 <Marlinski> you don't need mesh network for that
Dec 24 04:37:53 <Marlinski> you just need an AP
Dec 24 04:38:05 <McJuicy> well.
Dec 24 04:38:18 <McJuicy> that's where it gets fun
Dec 24 04:39:23 <McJuicy> because you can resell someone else's resale
Dec 24 04:39:29 <McJuicy> won't function like a normal mesh though
Dec 24 04:39:35 <McJuicy> because the traffic can't be balanced
Dec 24 04:39:48 <McJuicy> it can be, but maybe on per resource level
Dec 24 04:40:18 <McJuicy> gotta catch a plane real quick. Been nice chatting Marlinski
Dec 24 04:40:37 <Marlinski> real nice too, stay tuned on the channel, I will release my software soon it might interest you ;)
Dec 24 04:40:52 <Marlinski> within a month
Dec 24 04:41:01 <McJuicy> :) cheers. Looking forward to it
Dec 24 04:51:02 <bilb_ono> would it be possible for me to make a web app that you can visit on your phone. And when you visit the site and click a "transmit button" and hold an nfc tag to your phone, it adds those records. Idk enough about nfc to know if thats possible? or does it have to be done via an actual app?
Dec 24 04:54:27 <bilb_ono> I guess theres a reason why so many nfc apps are apps and not websites. but I did find this: http://www.w3.org/2012/nfc/web-api/
Dec 24 04:54:58 <pclover> I have a question. What file controls the menu ui for settings? like if a dev adds superuser to the settings menu?
Dec 24 04:58:09 <g00s> oops ! i just noticed onStart() { super.onResume() }
Dec 24 04:58:49 <pclover> or if you could point me to doc that explains it that would be great.
Dec 24 04:58:55 <pclover> I assume it's some jar file
Dec 24 05:00:05 <g00s> pclover its the Settings app. and there are lots of xmls :)
Dec 24 05:00:22 <pclover> ah
Dec 24 05:00:36 <pclover> means if i wanted to add it i would probably need to pull apart the apk and re-build it
Dec 24 05:00:40 <pclover> add something
Dec 24 05:05:04 <liuwenhao> Hi all. I posted a question this morning on StackOverflow but no one has answer my question yet. If anyone with knowledge in SQLite can point me in the right direction :) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27626758/sqlite-cursor-select-in-an-expandablelistview-simplecursortreeadapter-issue-with
Dec 24 05:05:11 <liuwenhao> and sorry for the bad English
Dec 24 05:12:08 <eghdk> Okay, so I have Android Studio 1.0.2 and out of nowhere, it won't show me redlines in my .java files? I can literally type dslkafd.dkfljd(); and I don't get an red lines. If I try to build/run then I get cannot find symbol. Any ideas?
Dec 24 05:12:32 <pclover> g00s, do you more specific in settings were it would be?
Dec 24 05:12:52 <g00s> look in the Settings app res/xml
Dec 24 05:13:17 <g00s> eghdk yeah i get that too. its still beta whatever they say
Dec 24 05:13:47 <g00s> or more annoyingly, i get red underlines in files i haven't touched in weeks
Dec 24 05:14:00 <g00s> have to do crazy dance of gradle sync / clean
Dec 24 05:14:10 <g00s> invalidate caches, etc
Dec 24 05:14:21 <g00s> fuck man, give me back eclipse with gradle support
Dec 24 05:14:52 <pclover> g00s, thanks :)
Dec 24 05:15:23 <eghdk> Hahaha. In eclipse if I went into one file and commented out a method... I would get red line in all the files that referenced that method. Why can't Android Studio do that?
Dec 24 05:19:20 <avinashrbhat> eghdk, what is your current inspection profile? maybe you have set it to none or enabled power saver mode.
Dec 24 05:22:03 <avinashrbhat> eghdk, also maybe enabling "Use the in-process build" will enable this.
Dec 24 05:25:12 <eghdk> avinashrbhat: Where do I find inspection profile?
Dec 24 05:26:16 <JakeWharton> eghdk: because the build system is completely separate from the IDE
Dec 24 05:26:24 <JakeWharton> and you're better off for it
Dec 24 05:27:19 <eghdk> JakeWharton: That's the answer to my question... " eclipse if I went into one file and commented out a method... I would get red line in all the files that referenced that method. Why can't Android Studio do that?"?
Dec 24 05:27:28 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 05:28:41 <eghdk> JakeWharton: Thanks. Okay build system and ide are sparate. Got it. Any ideas to this question "Okay, so I have Android Studio 1.0.2 and out of nowhere, it won't show me redlines in my .java files? I can literally type dslkafd.dkfljd(); and I don't get an red lines. If I try to build/run then I get cannot find symbol."
Dec 24 05:29:47 <avinashrbhat> eghdk, AS already does this, I have been using Eclipse and AS, I haven't seen the problem before. I've been using AS since 0.3.0
Dec 24 05:30:26 <eghdk> avinashrbhat: That's what I mean. I've been using AS too for pretty long. But suddenly it's acting really weird. Even in sample projects... I don't know what to do
Dec 24 05:31:01 <avinashrbhat> eghdk, you can find the inspection profile on the lower right corner of the ide. It's an icon with a lock.
Dec 24 05:31:24 <g00s> i think most of my problems come from variant.registerJavaGeneratingTask being very flaky
Dec 24 05:35:55 <eghdk> g00s: and avinashrbhat See? http://imgur.com/HC2hJx6 It seems to not be reading my code at all. It was working earlier today. Any tips on what to do to fix it?
Dec 24 05:40:50 <avinashrbhat> eghdk, try commenting on the AndroidDevelopers post https://plus.google.com/+AndroidDevelopers/posts/14aAUWbWzDr
Dec 24 05:41:56 <avinashrbhat> eghdk, maybe someone there will know it better.
Dec 24 05:42:07 <eghdk> avinashrbhat: I guess it could be from 1.0.2 update that I did last night I think. Any easy way to roll back/
Dec 24 05:42:08 <eghdk> ?
Dec 24 05:43:22 <avinashrbhat> IDK how to rollback, you'll have to do a fresh install.
Dec 24 06:09:09 <drinfernoo> sure is quiet in here
Dec 24 06:09:42 <g00s> it usually picks up in january
Dec 24 06:09:46 <g00s> holidays, etc
Dec 24 06:10:29 <drinfernoo> well just for now
Dec 24 06:12:54 <pclover> hum
Dec 24 06:12:56 <pclover> looking for the xml file
Dec 24 06:13:00 <pclover> and trying to google
Dec 24 06:15:17 <JakeWharton> story of my life
Dec 24 06:16:00 <pclover> lol
Dec 24 06:16:03 <pclover> can't find the settings_headers.xml file
Dec 24 06:17:00 <pclover> maybe changed in 5.0?
Dec 24 06:17:06 <pclover> for the settings.apk app
Dec 24 06:17:40 <g00s> grep for the header tag, maybe the filename isn't obvious. or look at the root activity that loads the preferences
Dec 24 06:18:08 <pclover> windows blows and doesn't have grep
Dec 24 06:18:14 <g00s> it has find though
Dec 24 06:18:24 <pclover> not really used find before
Dec 24 06:18:35 <g00s> https://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/find.mspx?mfr=true
Dec 24 06:18:53 <g00s> if you have perl, you might be able to use ack
Dec 24 06:19:04 <drinfernoo> JakeWharton, any input on why using setEnterTransition() and setSharedElementEnterTransition() makes my transitions funky? using one or the other works as expected, but doing both messes things up
Dec 24 06:19:23 <JakeWharton> i have never used the transitions framework nor cross-activity transitions
Dec 24 06:21:57 <drinfernoo> damn
Dec 24 06:22:19 <drinfernoo> theyre between fragments, but thats probably not really relevany
Dec 24 06:23:03 <pclover> g00s, moved the files to a linux system and found the file
Dec 24 06:23:11 <pclover> dashboard_categories.xml
Dec 24 06:23:48 <drinfernoo> g00s, know anything about Transitions?
Dec 24 06:24:07 <g00s> pclover doesn't sound familiar. i guess they changed stuff around
Dec 24 06:24:15 <pclover> this is 5.0 so
Dec 24 06:24:21 <g00s> drinfernoo not my area
Dec 24 06:24:27 <drinfernoo> k
Dec 24 06:28:28 <HevvyMetal> AS seems pretty sucky
Dec 24 06:28:56 <HevvyMetal> but maybe i'm just not used to it but it seems like a real hassle
Dec 24 06:29:11 <HevvyMetal> I thought I'd screw around wiht over break tho
Dec 24 06:29:41 <HevvyMetal> i created a project in AS then moved it to a differerent drive and it wouldnt open in AS how fragile is that?
Dec 24 06:30:03 <HevvyMetal> they coul dhave at least set up the shortcuts to be eclipse compatabile oh well
Dec 24 06:31:41 <HevvyMetal> also 18 point font on AS is like 10 point anywhere else wtf?
Dec 24 06:34:02 <JakeWharton> moving a project is fine, you did something wrong
Dec 24 06:34:11 <JakeWharton> you can setup eclipse shortcuts
Dec 24 06:34:19 <HevvyMetal> oh how to setup eclipse shortcuts?
Dec 24 06:34:26 <JakeWharton> and font is 100% a system and java thing so not the IDE's problem
Dec 24 06:34:28 <HevvyMetal> just because I ran into a problem/bug doesn't mean I did something wrong
Dec 24 06:34:52 <HevvyMetal> no it's not jakewharton when I choose a size in the IDE it's completely different than in any other app such as notepad
Dec 24 06:34:54 <HevvyMetal> try it yourself
Dec 24 06:35:09 <JakeWharton> notepad is a native app
Dec 24 06:35:14 <HevvyMetal> at least using consolas font which is what i'm using
Dec 24 06:35:15 <JakeWharton> the IDE is a Java app
Dec 24 06:35:26 <HevvyMetal> yeah in eclipse I got the natie behavior for the font sizes
Dec 24 06:35:32 <HevvyMetal> and eclipse is also a java app
Dec 24 06:35:37 <g00s> HevvyMetal eclipse uses SWT though
Dec 24 06:35:41 <JakeWharton> true, but with SWT
Dec 24 06:35:43 <JakeWharton> yeah
Dec 24 06:35:56 <HevvyMetal> I don't know if AS uses SWT or not all I am saying the font sizes are whack
Dec 24 06:36:01 <JakeWharton> also having moved projects all around for 5 years of AS and IntelliJ use, I can tell you it works just fine
Dec 24 06:36:04 <JakeWharton> it doesn't use SWT
Dec 24 06:36:14 <HevvyMetal> and when i moved the folder it didn't open i'm not sure how I "did it wrong"
Dec 24 06:36:21 <HevvyMetal> either way then java should fix the font size issue
Dec 24 06:36:33 <HevvyMetal> I'm point out an erratum or more I don't know why you need to get defensive
Dec 24 06:36:49 <JakeWharton> i'm offensive
Dec 24 06:36:51 <JakeWharton> not defensive
Dec 24 06:36:55 <HevvyMetal> k
Dec 24 06:37:19 <HevvyMetal> does it have any settings for formatting code? don't see that in the sea of options here
Dec 24 06:37:29 <JakeWharton> of course it does
Dec 24 06:37:35 <HevvyMetal> great where?
Dec 24 06:37:38 <JakeWharton> preferences
Dec 24 06:37:54 <HevvyMetal> I'm in "Settings"
Dec 24 06:37:59 <JakeWharton> same thing
Dec 24 06:38:02 <HevvyMetal> is there a preferences that is differnt?
Dec 24 06:38:05 <HevvyMetal> ok and where in Settings
Dec 24 06:38:11 <JakeWharton> i'm not hand holding you
Dec 24 06:38:15 <JakeWharton> use the giant search box
Dec 24 06:38:16 <JakeWharton> or Google
Dec 24 06:38:30 <JakeWharton> or poke around
Dec 24 06:38:56 <HevvyMetal> i see a handful of java formatting options compared to the dozens that eclipse offers
Dec 24 06:39:16 <HevvyMetal> and it seems to only apply to comments
Dec 24 06:39:18 <HevvyMetal> not actual code
Dec 24 06:39:24 <JakeWharton> look harder then
Dec 24 06:39:26 <JakeWharton> or use Google
Dec 24 06:40:09 <HevvyMetal> that's great i guess we don't need IRC then
Dec 24 06:40:25 <JakeWharton> this isn't #androiddev-handhold
Dec 24 06:40:42 <HevvyMetal> i think there should be an #androidstudio channel
Dec 24 06:40:50 <JakeWharton> i think there should be http://google.com
Dec 24 06:41:14 <HevvyMetal> yeah yeah
Dec 24 06:41:22 <HevvyMetal> i'll remember that next time you have a question :)
Dec 24 06:41:25 <g00s> HevvyMetal just remember, ctrl-E !
Dec 24 06:42:12 <HevvyMetal> it looks like code settings are part of a project great now everytime i create a new project I have to fob the code settings
Dec 24 06:42:21 <HevvyMetal> eclipse still beats this stuff
Dec 24 06:42:27 <JakeWharton> They aren't
Dec 24 06:42:29 <HevvyMetal> i'm waiting to be impressed by AS not just annoyted by it
Dec 24 06:42:37 <g00s> JakeWharton in the Keep app, from Nav Drawer 'Help & Feedback' - is this help stuff a web view or some api i'm unaware of ?
Dec 24 06:42:39 <JakeWharton> We felt the same way about you
Dec 24 06:42:50 <HevvyMetal> yeah well i guess i'm doing this wrong again but it just shows up in project settings
Dec 24 06:43:03 <HevvyMetal> not in the normal settings
Dec 24 06:43:19 <g00s> it almost looks like some nativish help api
Dec 24 06:44:48 <g00s> hm, probably webview
Dec 24 06:45:43 <JakeWharton> HevvyMetal: the setting is per project, the configs are global
Dec 24 06:45:57 <JakeWharton> You can have multiple, of course
Dec 24 06:46:19 <HevvyMetal> where are these "Configs"?
Dec 24 06:46:30 <HevvyMetal> and still see nothing as far as fetching javadoc in gradle
Dec 24 06:46:43 <HevvyMetal> but thanks i'll google through a bunch of half baked stackoverflow responses
Dec 24 06:46:46 <HevvyMetal> bbiab
Dec 24 06:47:08 <JakeWharton> Look at the documentation for IntelliJ
Dec 24 06:49:09 <Ologn> Getting 73 cents a click in Germany today...cool
Dec 24 06:50:36 <HevvyMetal> 73 cents a click for what ologn?
Dec 24 06:50:46 <Ologn> My Admob ads
Dec 24 06:51:09 <HevvyMetal> i'll be impressed when AS can rename a package in the manfiest and have it rename the packages to match
Dec 24 06:51:20 <HevvyMetal> well cool Ologn is that for any ad or depends on which particular ad?
Dec 24 06:51:28 <HevvyMetal> how many clicks/impressions do you get?
Dec 24 06:52:09 <regreddit> HevvyMetal  I started #android-studio a while back, but didnt really promote it
Dec 24 06:52:09 <Ologn> 1686 german requests, 29 clicks, $21.18
Dec 24 06:52:14 <HevvyMetal> $0.73 a click is a lot for people to pay considering most dont purchase i'm amazed that people are paying $1.00 click for something on the web or whatever and its $5/item
Dec 24 06:52:15 <Ologn> Not sure what ad is showing in Germany
Dec 24 06:52:35 <HevvyMetal> are there any other AS channels right now regreddit? was it indexable by irc.netsplit.de search?
Dec 24 06:53:12 <RustyShackleford> do you dev on your main phone? separate dev device?
Dec 24 06:53:13 <regreddit> Im not sure, I they are still open, I added ChanServ to them both
Dec 24 06:53:13 <HevvyMetal> ologn well sometimes they rotate the ad or its keyword related...maybe there is some way to tell? i havent done any adware ologn but how many clciks/day are you getting for what kind of what?
Dec 24 06:53:18 <regreddit> # and ##
Dec 24 06:53:29 <HevvyMetal> RustyShackleford both
Dec 24 06:54:14 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, yaa, actually my cost per install is always cheaper advertising on Google then advertising with Admob...
Dec 24 06:54:34 <Ologn> But I guess if someone is really pushing their app, they can spill into Admob
Dec 24 06:55:04 <HevvyMetal> what does your app do ologn? how much are you paying for the google keywords?
Dec 24 06:55:26 <HevvyMetal> i remember back i nthe day when i was doing DirectX programming that the directX keyword was costing me $2/click and no way were most of those people going to buy my services
Dec 24 06:55:28 <HevvyMetal> it was crazy
Dec 24 06:55:36 <HevvyMetal> most people probably just looking for drivers
Dec 24 06:55:43 <Ologn> People can read books like Tom Sawyer or Twelve Years a slave for free...
Dec 24 06:55:54 <HevvyMetal> i wonder how much the CPC is for "toilet paper" is lolz
Dec 24 06:56:03 <HevvyMetal> what does that have to do with anything? lost there
Dec 24 06:56:18 <Ologn> I only advertise in Spanish, in certain Spanish speaking countries, and I pay one cent a clic
Dec 24 06:56:36 <Ologn> People can read books like Tom Sawyer or Twelve Years a slave for free on my app
Dec 24 06:58:41 <HevvyMetal> so it's basically stolen intellectual property or how does that work ologn?
Dec 24 06:59:50 <Ologn> I don't know how Tom Sawyer is stolen...it was published in 1876 and Mark Twain died over a century ago
Dec 24 07:00:37 <HevvyMetal> well if the copyright has truly expired, then why can't they read it for free without your app ologn?
Dec 24 07:01:42 <Ologn> They do have alternative methods...
Dec 24 07:02:44 <regreddit> Project Gutenberg for one
Dec 24 07:02:49 <regreddit> and just any reader
Dec 24 07:03:36 <regreddit> http://m.gutenberg.org/ebooks/74.mobile
Dec 24 07:04:06 <regreddit> and http://m.gutenberg.org/ebooks/45631.mobile
Dec 24 07:04:53 <Ologn> In terms of apps, originality and compensation are very loosely connected
Dec 24 07:05:48 <Ologn> My app that handles Microsoft Access on Android is useful and original (and somewhat unique), yet my apps which do the same thing dozens of other apps do are the ones which make money
Dec 24 07:08:27 <HevvyMetal> ok
Dec 24 07:08:43 <HevvyMetal> well whats the name of your apps then ologn and how much money do they make and which ones make the most money
Dec 24 07:08:44 <HevvyMetal> ?
Dec 24 07:09:01 <HevvyMetal> but yeah if you are doing adware or freeware then doing something common can make a lot of money
Dec 24 07:09:07 <Ologn> Free Books to Download & Read makes the most money
Dec 24 07:09:12 <HevvyMetal> mcirosoft access on android is certainly a niche market
Dec 24 07:09:21 <g00s> heh
Dec 24 07:09:31 <HevvyMetal> so your app just has one book per app or several books per app?
Dec 24 07:09:31 <Ologn> Panacea Database (Microsoft Access) makes a little
Dec 24 07:09:50 <HevvyMetal> and would you say you make $1,000s of dollars a month or just hundres or what?
Dec 24 07:10:09 <Ologn> I'll probably make over $3k this month
Dec 24 07:10:20 <Ologn> But December is usually good
Dec 24 07:10:25 <Ologn> As is January
Dec 24 07:10:57 <regreddit> this app? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.panaceasupplies.android.reader
Dec 24 07:11:08 <Ologn> regreddit, yes
Dec 24 07:12:30 <g00s> Ologn wow $3k / mo is damn fine
Dec 24 07:12:50 <Ologn> g00s, it will drop off by August
Dec 24 07:13:10 <Ologn> I hope to push everything to $9k/month as then I can do it fulltime
Dec 24 07:13:15 <RustyShackleford> Ologn: 3k this month on your app?
Dec 24 07:13:23 <Ologn> RustyShackleford, on all my apps
Dec 24 07:13:40 <Ologn> But December and January are higher than say August
Dec 24 07:13:41 <RustyShackleford> okay more than one app
Dec 24 07:13:44 <Ologn> yes
Dec 24 07:13:53 <RustyShackleford> dude thats pretty good
Dec 24 07:14:04 <Ologn> Although the book app will probably make $2000 of that
Dec 24 07:14:09 <RustyShackleford> thats some serious supplemental income
Dec 24 07:15:19 <Ologn> If I could flog myself to work on dull money-making stuff I'd probably be making more
Dec 24 07:15:45 <Ologn> I'm partly done with an app to make collages and put them on Facebook etc. but it's dull
Dec 24 07:16:37 <RustyShackleford> i can never think of original ideas
Dec 24 07:16:39 <RustyShackleford> how do you do it?
Dec 24 07:16:47 <Ologn> I have an easy answer
Dec 24 07:16:52 <Ologn> Don't think of original ideas
Dec 24 07:17:04 <Ologn> My original ideas don't make money
Dec 24 07:17:20 <RustyShackleford> hah. So then take an existing idea and implement it better?
Dec 24 07:17:38 <Ologn> Facebook came after Sixdegrees.com (1996?), Myspace, Orkut, Friendster...
Dec 24 07:17:58 <Ologn> RustyShackleford, yes.  Better, or just some twist on it that works.
Dec 24 07:18:09 <Ologn> Although it is sometimes easier said than done.
Dec 24 07:18:19 <RustyShackleford> yeah facebook doesn't really count. I'm not sure how zuckerburg pulled that one off
Dec 24 07:18:34 <RustyShackleford> what was the twist there?
Dec 24 07:18:57 <Ologn> I thought the existing photo editor apps were junk, which they are, and thought I'd do a better one, but then midway in I realized there are some tough tradeoffs that have to be considered
Dec 24 07:19:27 <Ologn> I think the Facebook guys said it was really the other social networks games to lose
Dec 24 07:21:17 <HevvyMetal> how many hours would you say you've put into the apps so far ologn?
Dec 24 07:21:34 <HevvyMetal> well I agree that being original is not that important and yes facebook and youtube and google all were me3 type deals
Dec 24 07:21:52 <HevvyMetal> that's why i get so bent that everyone wants me to sign their stupid nda...or that they think they have to be "so original"
Dec 24 07:22:06 <HevvyMetal> sushi isn't original but lots of restaurants make money selling it
Dec 24 07:22:18 <RustyShackleford> HevvyMetal: yeah NDA's are scary
Dec 24 07:22:20 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, many, many hours.  Weekly maintenance is very low though, I spend most of my personal Android time chasing new revenue streams.
Dec 24 07:22:31 <RustyShackleford> i'm starting to doubt my plan to become a programmer
Dec 24 07:22:42 <HevvyMetal> if someone really came up with an original food item etc, very few people would buy it compared to steak or sushi
Dec 24 07:23:10 <RustyShackleford> Ologn: so you don't have to provide many updates?
Dec 24 07:23:13 <HevvyMetal> RustyShackleford are you a student now? what scares yo uabout the NDA? I'm not scared by them i just think it's a huge waste of time to spend an hour reading and signing and all that and then to hear they have another lft clone
Dec 24 07:23:48 <RustyShackleford> HevvyMetal: yeah i graduate in may. it's not only NDA's, i'm just not crazy about the jobs in my region
Dec 24 07:24:11 <HevvyMetal> what region are you in RustyShackleford ? what's yoru degree in? what kind of work have you done so far?
Dec 24 07:24:42 <RustyShackleford> I'm in Chicago. I have a math degree, with a CS minor and then some
Dec 24 07:24:54 <Ologn> RustyShackleford, I'm kind of mercenary, often new revenue streams take precedence over updates
Dec 24 07:25:16 <Ologn> RustyShackleford, if an app is popular, I usually do a lot of updates for the first few months, then they taper off...
Dec 24 07:25:23 <RustyShackleford> Ologn: i just realized your nickname
Dec 24 07:26:21 <RustyShackleford> anyway, how do you make an app that you can monetize? Most of my programming projects are experiments or something useful to me mostly
Dec 24 07:26:24 <pclover> damn it
Dec 24 07:26:35 <pclover> apktool wont decompile an apk correctly lol
Dec 24 07:26:40 <Ologn> I think I registered this with nickserv on a day I was working with self-balanced binary trees...
Dec 24 07:27:06 <HevvyMetal> do you use AS or eclipse ologn?
Dec 24 07:27:41 <Ologn> RustyShackleford, well there might be more than one way, I just know my way.  I've dabbled in games, and even had semi-popular ones, but didn't figure out monetizing them.
Dec 24 07:27:43 <HevvyMetal> on the android sample projects its hard to tell which ones it uses...is there any easy way to check out a git project in AS and have it automatcally work without having to import into eclipse first and then export it and/or know if the project was designed for eclipse or android studio?
Dec 24 07:27:50 <nartes> how to pipe String through Stream?
Dec 24 07:27:54 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, I use Emacs.
Dec 24 07:28:12 <HevvyMetal> ologn oh emacs on linux and what build scripts?
Dec 24 07:28:15 <g00s> Ologn holy shit, really ?
Dec 24 07:28:31 <drinfernoo> um... is android.R.id.home the id for the drawertoggle?
Dec 24 07:28:51 <RustyShackleford> wow emacs really? That sounds awful
Dec 24 07:28:58 <Ologn> Yes Emacs on Linux.  I use ant and that sort of thing.  Android/Application makefiles for the C/C++ stuff.
Dec 24 07:29:01 <g00s> RustyShackleford with a math degree, you have lots of opportunities
Dec 24 07:29:19 <Ologn> Eclipse with ADT was awful
Dec 24 07:29:36 <RustyShackleford> g00s: i might still chase software development at first anyway. Good starting salary
Dec 24 07:29:46 <RustyShackleford> but i'm sorta having an existential crisis here haha
Dec 24 07:29:53 <Ologn> I went to a party last week with a lot of hedge fund tech guys...a lot of emacs people there
Dec 24 07:29:56 <gordon_> Ologn: how's code completion on emacs ? ;)
Dec 24 07:30:03 <Ologn> gordon_, it's good!
Dec 24 07:30:08 <HevvyMetal> so how do you debug and step through thigs with eamcs ologn?
Dec 24 07:30:10 <gordon_> pics or didnt happen
Dec 24 07:30:21 <Ologn> gordon_, the jde plugin has code completion stuff
Dec 24 07:30:33 <gordon_> I've heard that java and emacs is horrible pair
Dec 24 07:30:52 <nartes> I mean, I used to methods of Scanner like nextInt(), and I want to keep this abstraction via converting string to Scanner
Dec 24 07:31:07 <nartes> is it a good practise?
Dec 24 07:31:20 <HevvyMetal> anyone doing Leanback development here? what kind of controller can I use?
Dec 24 07:31:30 <HevvyMetal> and what do you people like as far as gamepad controlers in here?
Dec 24 07:32:01 <g00s> Ologn have any favorite libraries you use project to project ?
Dec 24 07:32:09 <nartes> Are there any better place to ask about java?
Dec 24 07:32:16 <gordon_> Ologn: well just looked on youtube
Dec 24 07:32:20 <gordon_> but it doesnt look good
Dec 24 07:32:36 <gordon_> dont know if that's as powerfull as intellij
Dec 24 07:32:59 <Ologn> g00s, well Jamie Zawinski wrote a C language OpenGL to OpenGL ES converter which is pretty handy if you want to port OpenGL C/C++ code.  I don't think anyone uses it except me and him.
Dec 24 07:34:00 <Ologn> Yaa...I might try out Android Studio a second time...I just really grew to hate Eclipse/ADT
Dec 24 07:34:53 <gordon_> not only you
Dec 24 07:35:02 <Ologn> gordon_, there are good tips out there like this http://gregorygrubbs.com/development/tips-on-android-development-using-emacs/
Dec 24 07:35:07 <thepoosh> Ologn: why hate Eclipse
Dec 24 07:35:11 <thepoosh> it's semi ok
Dec 24 07:35:12 <thepoosh> ish
Dec 24 07:35:24 <JakeWharton> nartes: what kind of stream?
Dec 24 07:35:38 <Ologn> thepoosh,  The Android team hated Eclipse so much they made their own IDE
Dec 24 07:35:49 <thepoosh> they didn't make it
Dec 24 07:35:53 <Ologn> Why did I grow to hate Eclipse
Dec 24 07:35:56 <thepoosh> they ported IntelliK
Dec 24 07:35:59 <Ologn> yes
Dec 24 07:35:59 <thepoosh> IntelliJ
Dec 24 07:36:05 <JakeWharton> even ported is too strong a term
Dec 24 07:36:08 <JakeWharton> augmented
Dec 24 07:36:11 <thepoosh> hmmm
Dec 24 07:36:30 <thepoosh> JakeWharton: is it a full version of IntelliJ or is it stripped down?
Dec 24 07:36:31 <Ologn> One thing I hate about Eclipse is key shortcuts that do weird things and are hard to undo
Dec 24 07:36:33 <nartes> Sorry, Scanner has constructor from String. I skipped because of Converting String to CharSequence which is not good for Scanner constructor. The original source was String. The desired was Scanner.
Dec 24 07:36:46 <JakeWharton> thepoosh: some things are stripped
Dec 24 07:36:52 <JakeWharton> and it's of course based on community edition
Dec 24 07:36:55 <Ologn> Another thing I hate about eclipse is how fast it is to get in and out of vi and emacs, and how slow and clunky Eclipse is
Dec 24 07:37:11 <thepoosh> lol
Dec 24 07:37:21 <RustyShackleford> for something simple like python, vim/emacs works fine
Dec 24 07:37:24 <thepoosh> Ologn: you cannot compare an IDE to a text editor
Dec 24 07:37:29 <JakeWharton> i dunno, PyCharm rocks
Dec 24 07:37:29 <thepoosh> that is no fair
Dec 24 07:37:35 <RustyShackleford> but i have no clue how you debug your apps with emacs
Dec 24 07:38:19 <thepoosh> fine
Dec 24 07:38:20 <Ologn> The nice thing about Emacs is it can be a text editor, but it can also be an IDE
Dec 24 07:38:28 <thepoosh> IDEish
Dec 24 07:38:31 <RustyShackleford> for android, an IDE is (almost) necessary
Dec 24 07:38:35 <JakeWharton> +1 to ish
Dec 24 07:38:39 <thepoosh> not even remotely strong enough to be called an IDE
Dec 24 07:38:53 <RustyShackleford> anyway emacs stinks
Dec 24 07:38:55 <RustyShackleford> yeah i said it
Dec 24 07:38:58 <JakeWharton> intellij can do baffling things
Dec 24 07:39:17 <Ologn> thepoosh, default emacs is not strong enough to be called an IDE
Dec 24 07:39:28 <thepoosh> unless you consider C -x M-Butterfly
Dec 24 07:39:33 <JakeWharton> indeed
Dec 24 07:39:46 <thepoosh> http://xkcd.com/378/
Dec 24 07:39:57 <thepoosh> relevan xkcd
Dec 24 07:40:31 <HevvyMetal> RustyShackleford then be a quant
Dec 24 07:40:45 <HevvyMetal> so any libraries you are using these days ologn? picasso etc?
Dec 24 07:40:52 <JakeWharton> picasso
Dec 24 07:40:54 <HevvyMetal> what is your full time gig ologan?
Dec 24 07:42:00 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, universal image loader is nice
Dec 24 07:42:15 <HevvyMetal> yeah I used UIL on several projects ologn
Dec 24 07:42:21 <HevvyMetal> have you tried picasso instead?
Dec 24 07:42:38 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, no, UIL worked well enough for me
Dec 24 07:42:42 <HevvyMetal> a lot of people like it better but it's odd when i searched for image loaders i could never find picasso only UIL and i did a lot of searching
Dec 24 07:42:52 <HevvyMetal> yeah well UIL is nice but apparently picasso is better
Dec 24 07:43:04 <HevvyMetal> a lot of the streaming companies use it and it does better memory handling
Dec 24 07:43:08 <JakeWharton> UIL's API reminds of when I eat a burrito, drink to excess, and then vomit
Dec 24 07:43:11 <HevvyMetal> google uses it in their latest Android TV stuff
Dec 24 07:43:24 <HevvyMetal> well have you tried picasso JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 07:43:29 <JakeWharton> i wrote picasso
Dec 24 07:43:43 <HevvyMetal> it's from square they have a lot of cool api's considering they don't relaly have any any android apps
Dec 24 07:43:58 <thepoosh> LOL
Dec 24 07:44:12 <HevvyMetal> well they don't really compared to their iOS stuff
Dec 24 07:44:23 <JakeWharton> um. we have exactly the same shit on Android as we do iOS
Dec 24 07:44:25 <HevvyMetal> do you work for square JakeWharton or was it an independent project or what?
Dec 24 07:44:31 <JakeWharton> i work for square
Dec 24 07:44:33 <Ologn> The libraries I think about are not so much standard Android Java libraries, but for all the C/C++ NDK stuff I do
Dec 24 07:44:53 <HevvyMetal> oh ok JakeWharton do you have a POS app for the tablets like the Square on iPad or is it stripped down?
Dec 24 07:44:55 <HevvyMetal> does it print etc?
Dec 24 07:44:57 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 07:45:03 <JakeWharton> it's exactly the same
Dec 24 07:45:16 <HevvyMetal> oh really? what's the link to your android product? does it have barcode scanner and printer? I thought it was just iOS?
Dec 24 07:45:44 <HevvyMetal> and link I mean the hardwareish version of your product with stand and all that do you have one JakeWharton just curious
Dec 24 07:46:00 <JakeWharton> a stand wouldn't really be possible since there's a bazillion form factors
Dec 24 07:46:08 <JakeWharton> all the external peripherals all work fine though
Dec 24 07:47:28 <HevvyMetal> well have you heard of gopago JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 07:47:35 <HevvyMetal> and are you in SF or wher?
Dec 24 07:47:40 <JakeWharton> yes. yes.
Dec 24 07:47:47 <HevvyMetal> oh ok
Dec 24 07:47:52 <HevvyMetal> well lucky you
Dec 24 07:48:06 <HevvyMetal> I did some work for Gopago back in the day as a consultant
Dec 24 07:48:20 <HevvyMetal> good thing I used UIL on it instead of picasso ;)
Dec 24 07:48:23 <JakeWharton> "lucky"... i don't feel lucky when i get my rent bill
Dec 24 07:48:30 * lewellyn isn't noticing anything different, from a user's view, after the update to 5.0.1. and it's just as picky about bad app behavior as 5.0 was, unsurprisingly.
Dec 24 07:48:39 <HevvyMetal> but they have a stand and so do some other companies
Dec 24 07:48:42 <JakeWharton> i really don't care what people use as long as they don't waste time writing things like image downloaders themselves
Dec 24 07:48:50 <JakeWharton> if it works, and it saves you time... use it and move the hell on
Dec 24 07:48:53 <RustyShackleford> i got an update for my phone today. I was so excited for lollipop
Dec 24 07:48:56 <gordon_> I use UIL and dont like it
Dec 24 07:49:01 <RustyShackleford> turns out i'm still at 4.4.4
Dec 24 07:49:03 <RustyShackleford> :(
Dec 24 07:49:13 <HevvyMetal> RustyShackleford did you work on retrofit?
Dec 24 07:49:18 <lewellyn> RustyShackleford: :(
Dec 24 07:49:35 <HevvyMetal> How come square has so many opensource projects for all the basics that the vendors should be doing? Why did they pay to reinvent the wheels to the nth degree? Not that it's bad but ...
Dec 24 07:49:41 <lewellyn> i'll try to not talk too much about 5.0.1 aside from noting that it looks like they fixed the multitask bugs.
Dec 24 07:49:48 <HevvyMetal> ummm. i mean jakewharton did you work on retrofit
Dec 24 07:49:50 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 07:49:52 <JakeWharton> retrofit is my baby
Dec 24 07:49:52 <HevvyMetal> bad tab
Dec 24 07:49:55 <thepoosh> I can definitely tell you that Volley image loader sucks
Dec 24 07:50:00 <thepoosh> we use it now
Dec 24 07:50:17 <lewellyn> afaict, there was no way to tell if your app was affected by the 5.0 "can't switch to it" bug, from within the app.
Dec 24 07:50:19 <HevvyMetal> oh ok JakeWharton does it have a query language like some of the stuff microsoft did for android or that mv database etc?
Dec 24 07:50:27 <JakeWharton> we open source things that we write. i dunno. there's no value in keeping it private. it's not proprietary or anything
Dec 24 07:50:36 <JakeWharton> i don't know what that is
Dec 24 07:50:44 <RustyShackleford> HevvyMetal: nope not me
Dec 24 07:50:51 <HevvyMetal> a query language like....
Dec 24 07:51:11 <HevvyMetal> jsonResult.Where(..something..).And(..seomthing)... etc
Dec 24 07:51:16 <HevvyMetal> like Linq
Dec 24 07:51:22 <JakeWharton> no. Retrofit just maps REST-like APIs to Java interfaces. Nothing to do with querying or databases
Dec 24 07:51:32 <thepoosh> HevvyMetal: you're talkin about Linq style?
Dec 24 07:51:36 <JakeWharton> it has nothing to do with data. it delegates all that to other libraries
Dec 24 07:51:38 <JakeWharton> you can plug whatever you want in
Dec 24 07:52:12 <HevvyMetal> how does retrofit deal with nested objects? does it automatically parse if you nest the pojos? I never quite got how to handle arbitrary data with retrofit but i didnt dig into it too much the documenation seemed sparse but someone linked me to your github maybe there is better docs elsewhere?
Dec 24 07:52:21 <thepoosh> you mean the network layer is plug and play?
Dec 24 07:52:24 <JakeWharton> retrofit doesn't care
Dec 24 07:52:24 <HevvyMetal> thepoosh: right linq style query for android
Dec 24 07:52:38 <JakeWharton> it hands the stream to the converter and says "do what you want"
Dec 24 07:52:40 <JakeWharton> by default it's Gson
Dec 24 07:52:40 <HevvyMetal> well it has to care somehow or define the mapping is there a doc on that JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 07:52:46 <thepoosh> HevvyMetal: there are some libs that are written like that but nothing normal
Dec 24 07:53:06 <HevvyMetal> thepoosh : well microsoft of all people ahd a cool one but is ther ea non microsoft query language for android that you know of?
Dec 24 07:53:13 <HevvyMetal> for instance you could have json come back like
Dec 24 07:53:15 <thepoosh> one day, we'll get our lambda and linq
Dec 24 07:53:27 <HevvyMetal> thepoosh : microsoft azure for android has it already tho
Dec 24 07:53:30 <HevvyMetal> i wonder how they did it
Dec 24 07:53:31 <JakeWharton> you will never get linq
Dec 24 07:53:32 <HevvyMetal> so it can be done
Dec 24 07:53:39 <thepoosh> JakeWharton: why not?
Dec 24 07:53:41 <HevvyMetal> like i said microsofts azure for android has it
Dec 24 07:53:52 <JakeWharton> because the language cannot support such constructs
Dec 24 07:53:53 <sarbs> linq is a c#/.net clr thing, that's why
Dec 24 07:54:02 <thepoosh> hmmm
Dec 24 07:54:11 <HevvyMetal> so with retrofit JakeWharton say some object comes back as person {name: "", addr1: "", ...}
Dec 24 07:54:15 <thepoosh> cannot be ported to java ART thing?
Dec 24 07:54:28 <JakeWharton> thepoosh: the Java language is in your way
Dec 24 07:54:39 <thepoosh> they just got lambda
Dec 24 07:54:46 <thepoosh> (but not on android)
Dec 24 07:54:55 <HevvyMetal> or it could come back as person {name:"", address: {line1: "",..}}
Dec 24 07:55:05 <sarbs> "java ART" --> i'm not really sure you understand the distinction between what is java, and what is dalvik/art
Dec 24 07:55:06 <HevvyMetal> how do you configure retrofit for one or the other JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 07:55:11 <JakeWharton> that's Gson's problem
Dec 24 07:55:22 <JakeWharton> you can configure Gson with TypeAdapters and a bunch of crap to handle those things
Dec 24 07:55:35 <JakeWharton> Retrofit just moves the data from the socket to Gson (or whatever converter you use)
Dec 24 07:55:39 <thepoosh> sarbs: it was a reflection of C# clr -> Java ART
Dec 24 07:55:44 <HevvyMetal> ok  and with retrofit does it wait til it gets the WHOLE response before sending a call back or does it send a callback each time it parses an element of a (long) list?
Dec 24 07:55:55 <JakeWharton> no, it's streaming
Dec 24 07:56:01 <HevvyMetal> no what?
Dec 24 07:56:09 <JakeWharton> it's streaming
Dec 24 07:56:12 <JakeWharton> it doesn't buffer
Dec 24 07:56:15 <HevvyMetal> so it starts sending back results before it hits the end or what?
Dec 24 07:56:23 <HevvyMetal> yeah just because it streams doesnt mean it incrementally parses tho
Dec 24 07:56:59 <JakeWharton> the API is ultimately request/response
Dec 24 07:57:34 <JakeWharton> you call it, it hands you back a java object
Dec 24 07:57:42 <HevvyMetal> ok so JakeWharton it neeeds to get the ENTIRE response before it gives you back any data right?
Dec 24 07:57:47 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 07:57:53 <JakeWharton> but only at the top level
Dec 24 07:58:05 <JakeWharton> the internals are all streaming so the cost of serialization is amortized over the network latency
Dec 24 07:58:05 <HevvyMetal> ok well the microsoft one  was more incremental
Dec 24 07:58:22 <HevvyMetal> right but you don't get any answers back til you get the whole anwer
Dec 24 07:58:35 <HevvyMetal> so if the whole answer is 1 megabyte, then you don't get any answers back at 0.5 megabyte right?
Dec 24 07:58:56 <HevvyMetal> also have you got into querying data at the server level ? it seems like thats a big thing missing from json etc...
Dec 24 07:58:57 <JakeWharton> no, but that usually requires purpose built abstraction at the application which just about everyone doesn't want
Dec 24 07:59:07 <JakeWharton> we don't use json
Dec 24 08:00:10 <HevvyMetal> well we still need a query language
Dec 24 08:00:17 <HevvyMetal> here check this out jakewharton you'll like it
Dec 24 08:00:20 <HevvyMetal> let me pastebin it
Dec 24 08:00:26 <JakeWharton> who is "we"
Dec 24 08:00:30 <JakeWharton> i don't need one
Dec 24 08:00:40 <HevvyMetal> we the commmunity in general
Dec 24 08:00:46 <thepoosh> wat?!
Dec 24 08:00:47 <HevvyMetal> i can explain later but sec let me pastebin this
Dec 24 08:00:54 <thepoosh> HevvyMetal: I didn't elect you!
Dec 24 08:01:03 <JakeWharton> that also seems very domain-specific
Dec 24 08:01:07 <HevvyMetal> you don't have to i mean come on
Dec 24 08:01:21 <HevvyMetal> the fact that you can query sql where id = 1 and favorite_food='french fries'
Dec 24 08:01:28 <HevvyMetal> but cannot query a webservice is very limiting
Dec 24 08:01:33 <HevvyMetal> the same needs are there in both cases
Dec 24 08:01:41 <HevvyMetal> or most/many cases
Dec 24 08:01:48 <HevvyMetal> webservice is primarily just by primary key
Dec 24 08:02:06 <oddalot> what webservice are you talking about?
Dec 24 08:02:22 <HevvyMetal> ok check this out JakeWharton thepoosh this is Linq style query IN ANDROID
Dec 24 08:02:24 <HevvyMetal> http://pastebin.com/TvWb5u8c
Dec 24 08:02:50 <HevvyMetal> a very abbreviate sample but it shows it can be done
Dec 24 08:03:00 <HevvyMetal> this all gets called back once per row not once per reading the entire stream
Dec 24 08:03:18 <HevvyMetal> so this queries the data for all the todo items that are not complete
Dec 24 08:03:29 <HevvyMetal> (which is obviously handy and exposes my point)
Dec 24 08:04:01 <JakeWharton> i'm not saying i haven't done things like that, but it's always domain-specific because you get better APIs in the application and better formats across the wire
Dec 24 08:04:22 <xgearx> HevvyMetal: if you like it try ORMLite
Dec 24 08:04:30 <gordon_> linq style..
Dec 24 08:04:42 <gordon_> builder pattern ;)
Dec 24 08:04:46 <JakeWharton> yeah, that's not what i thought when you said linq style
Dec 24 08:05:46 <gordon_> jooq works on android afaik
Dec 24 08:05:47 <JakeWharton> we use jOOQ which gives the power of declarative queries like linq but yeah ultimately it's just a fancy, domain-specific builder, not language-level support
Dec 24 08:05:55 <JakeWharton> *high five*
Dec 24 08:06:14 <gordon_> *high five*
Dec 24 08:06:30 <gordon_> great timing
Dec 24 08:06:31 <Odaym> yea buddy!
Dec 24 08:06:46 <gordon_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR4OtA8kArQ
Dec 24 08:06:50 <gordon_> you can check it here
Dec 24 08:07:13 <JakeWharton> we only use jOOQ on the server, for Android we have something else we wrote
Dec 24 08:07:15 <JakeWharton> still toying with it
Dec 24 08:07:20 <xgearx> but i think it will be better to have for query java 8 stream-like api
Dec 24 08:07:43 <xgearx> build this api on top of orm
Dec 24 08:07:45 <JakeWharton> streams aren't good for query-like things though
Dec 24 08:07:45 <xgearx> for android
Dec 24 08:07:53 <Odaym> who is this dashing young man?
Dec 24 08:07:54 <xgearx> :(
Dec 24 08:07:54 <gordon_> lambda is
Dec 24 08:08:18 <JakeWharton> actually lambda makes it worse because you have no way to materialize the behavior into SQL to actually run
Dec 24 08:08:43 <JakeWharton> streams are only useful once the query is executed and you're hitting the result set
Dec 24 08:08:49 <gordon_> I enjoyed c# with linq to sql for simple things like selects and inserts
Dec 24 08:09:00 <JakeWharton> agree. i miss it dearly!
Dec 24 08:09:14 <JakeWharton> i actually enjoyed linq more for sql-like queries over collections
Dec 24 08:09:32 <JakeWharton> ultimately i had to munge my linq-to-sql to create more efficient queries on the actual DB
Dec 24 08:09:56 <gordon_> list.where(p => p.name == "John")
Dec 24 08:10:06 <gordon_> it was just simple
Dec 24 08:10:17 <JakeWharton> except that can't run on the DB which is where you want it to run
Dec 24 08:10:24 <g00s> gordon_ are you using jooq on android? still need that jdbc driver ?
Dec 24 08:10:31 <gordon_> no I dont
Dec 24 08:10:39 <gordon_> we dont have db currently
Dec 24 08:10:41 <Odaym> man this guy is just flying through the material
Dec 24 08:10:48 <JakeWharton> you'd have to iterate the entire table and do the lambda invocation in code
Dec 24 08:10:51 <Odaym> doesn't seem like he is out to really teach it, seems more like a show off..
Dec 24 08:10:52 <JakeWharton> that is never what you want
Dec 24 08:11:05 <JakeWharton> Odaym: that's why it's a video. pause and rewind.
Dec 24 08:11:13 <gordon_> JakeWharton: you mean linq ? maybe, I dont remember it
Dec 24 08:11:17 <g00s> Odaym video processing could have dropped frames
Dec 24 08:11:18 <gordon_> it was like... 4 years ago
Dec 24 08:11:39 <JakeWharton> yeah it was like 3+ years ago for me as well... :-x
Dec 24 08:11:56 <gordon_> but miss it
Dec 24 08:12:11 <HevvyMetal> hi was away
Dec 24 08:12:18 <gordon_> jooq has support for lambdas now I think
Dec 24 08:12:19 <HevvyMetal> well there's two kinds of "linq style"
Dec 24 08:12:23 <HevvyMetal> actually n kinds
Dec 24 08:12:37 <HevvyMetal> 1 kinds of linq style which might be like joob is "in memory queries"
Dec 24 08:12:43 <gordon_> https://github.com/jOOQ/jOOL
Dec 24 08:12:49 <HevvyMetal> so that's one thing i'm looking for in linq for android
Dec 24 08:12:51 <Odaym> it seems he's using vim
Dec 24 08:13:00 <HevvyMetal> the other part of linq is LinqToSql (or other database)
Dec 24 08:13:10 <HevvyMetal> which isntead of querying in ram, generates some query to run on something else
Dec 24 08:13:22 <HevvyMetal> and it's true there are no standards for that for rest
Dec 24 08:13:41 <HevvyMetal> but at least #1 should be there (jOOL)? and #2 is something that people should talk standards about
Dec 24 08:13:46 <HevvyMetal> it doesnt have to be sql perse
Dec 24 08:14:02 <HevvyMetal> you could query For All FacebookUsers where City = "San Jose"
Dec 24 08:14:03 <gordon_> huh?
Dec 24 08:14:11 <HevvyMetal> it could be NOSQL it doesnt have to be sql
Dec 24 08:14:17 <gordon_> on android ?
Dec 24 08:14:28 <JakeWharton> gordon_: having written a big app in Java 8 with jOOQ I can say that the lambdas are not useful at all :(
Dec 24 08:14:28 <HevvyMetal> yeah on android and in general
Dec 24 08:14:29 <gordon_> or in java in general
Dec 24 08:14:39 <HevvyMetal> you don't need lambdas JakeWharton
Dec 24 08:14:42 <HevvyMetal> http://pastebin.com/TvWb5u8c
Dec 24 08:14:43 <gordon_> JakeWharton: sad to hear that....
Dec 24 08:14:50 <JakeWharton> i know that. because the app used to be Java 7
Dec 24 08:14:51 <HevvyMetal> there is not a single lambda in that paste
Dec 24 08:15:07 <HevvyMetal> lambda doesn't get you anything other than notational convenience
Dec 24 08:15:12 <HevvyMetal> it isn't a requirement
Dec 24 08:15:16 <gordon_> is there 'guard' plugin for gradle already ?
Dec 24 08:15:16 <HevvyMetal> it's just a convenience
Dec 24 08:15:24 <JakeWharton> it's a hinderance, as i said above
Dec 24 08:15:28 <gordon_> infinitest doesnt work for me
Dec 24 08:15:35 <gordon_> or it's just me ?
Dec 24 08:15:40 <HevvyMetal> maybe it's a hindrance but you're missing the point JakeWharton
Dec 24 08:15:47 <HevvyMetal> you don't need it to do "linq style" queries
Dec 24 08:15:56 <JakeWharton> i know that. jOOQ gives me that already
Dec 24 08:16:19 <HevvyMetal> so if your rent is too high why don't you telecommute from somehwere cheaper JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 08:16:57 <JakeWharton> we don't really have remote workers
Dec 24 08:17:01 <HevvyMetal> and do you think you could parse on the fly and dispatch per row etc instead of at the end of the webservice?
Dec 24 08:17:14 <HevvyMetal> well you should tell them how great remote is
Dec 24 08:17:25 <JakeWharton> i'm already here, can't be bothered
Dec 24 08:17:29 <gordon_> "hey boss, you know, remote is great!"
Dec 24 08:17:37 <HevvyMetal> it is great
Dec 24 08:17:43 <HevvyMetal> for a lot of reasons
Dec 24 08:17:52 <gordon_> never said it isnt
Dec 24 08:17:53 <HevvyMetal> i think onsite is great too
Dec 24 08:17:58 <HevvyMetal> it's great to have both
Dec 24 08:18:09 <Ologn> People say working in New York City is expensive, but it's not as much as they say
Dec 24 08:18:25 <HevvyMetal> where in NYC do you live Ologn and how far do you have to commute?
Dec 24 08:18:27 <Ologn> If you *must* live in Manhattan, then maybe it's expensive
Dec 24 08:18:40 <HevvyMetal> well at least NYC pays a lot
Dec 24 08:18:47 <HevvyMetal> $200+k for C# dunno about android
Dec 24 08:18:49 <RustyShackleford> my friend lives in manhattan, a block away from work
Dec 24 08:18:59 <RustyShackleford> he says it works out nicely. He doesn't need a car
Dec 24 08:19:03 <Odaym> anyone who can do C# gets paid $200K?
Dec 24 08:19:06 <RustyShackleford> so that saves some money
Dec 24 08:19:12 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, it takes me 27 minutes to get from my front door to Penn Station
Dec 24 08:19:17 <HevvyMetal> the apartments in japan seem spacious
Dec 24 08:19:17 * Odaym packs and is off to the America
Dec 24 08:19:28 <HevvyMetal> so where is that Ologn ? Jersey? or where?
Dec 24 08:19:36 <HevvyMetal> 27 mins isnt bad to penn but that's not downtown
Dec 24 08:20:05 <Ologn> I've lived in different places, right now in Queens
Dec 24 08:20:13 <HevvyMetal> i 3> BHPhoto have you been there Ologn ? It's about 2 blocks away from penn station kinda near the stadium
Dec 24 08:20:26 <HevvyMetal> I shopped there online so many times when I got there it was like wow bhphoto
Dec 24 08:20:27 <Ologn> Actually my coworking office is run by daniweb.com if anyone uses them
Dec 24 08:20:43 <gordon_> HevvyMetal: what? apartments in japan spacious ? :D
Dec 24 08:20:52 <HevvyMetal> where do you work ologn? doing android?
Dec 24 08:20:58 <HevvyMetal> gordon_ : compared to NYC apartments yeah
Dec 24 08:21:04 <gordon_> havent been to
Dec 24 08:21:09 <HevvyMetal> except the bathtubs are like baby coffins
Dec 24 08:21:12 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, B&H is OK but I don't like haggling over things
Dec 24 08:21:15 <HevvyMetal> in NYC I dont think they have bathtubs
Dec 24 08:21:20 <gordon_> lol
Dec 24 08:21:32 <HevvyMetal> that's why they have communal baths in japan
Dec 24 08:21:34 <gordon_> you can always live in sharehouse ;)
Dec 24 08:21:49 <HevvyMetal> do the apartments have bathtubs where you are ologn? its been awhile since I was in nYC
Dec 24 08:21:52 <gordon_> HevvyMetal: I dont like those :(
Dec 24 08:21:59 <HevvyMetal> but both japan and NYC have the miniature sinks
Dec 24 08:22:07 <HevvyMetal> like something in an airplane bathroom
Dec 24 08:22:27 <HevvyMetal> but in the kitchen
Dec 24 08:22:34 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, I can't recall the last time I was in an apartment without a bathtub.  Even when my friend invited me to a party in the South Bronx years ago.
Dec 24 08:22:53 <HevvyMetal> ok so the NYC have a bathtub but a smaller living area overall
Dec 24 08:22:56 <HevvyMetal> pretty similar
Dec 24 08:23:20 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, yes, I have been in some very small Manhattan apartments.  Sometimes rented by people making six figure salaries.
Dec 24 08:23:24 <HevvyMetal> so is your apartment like 600 ft or say 30 minutes from downtown (times squarish), how much square foot would $2500 get you?
Dec 24 08:24:06 <HevvyMetal> they have bathtubs in japan it's just they are 3 foot long and you have your knees up your nose
Dec 24 08:24:17 <HevvyMetal> aka baby coffin heh
Dec 24 08:25:34 <Ologn> Manhattan apartments are expensive and small, but within a 30 minute commute are larger, cheaper apartments, in low-crime neighborhoods
Dec 24 08:26:39 <drinfernoo> i think... i give up on making my drawertoggle animate. i figured out how it works, but i cant seem to extend DrawerArrowDrawable, because i need to pass a Context, which it says isnt a good constructor
Dec 24 08:27:03 <gordon_> HevvyMetal: I kinda know how it is in Japan ;)
Dec 24 08:27:19 <RustyShackleford> besides the price of an apartment, you also have to consider quality
Dec 24 08:27:29 <Ologn> New York has better public transportation then the Bay Area.  Otherwise people could live in Sausalito, Berkeley etc.
Dec 24 08:27:34 <Ologn> than
Dec 24 08:27:52 <thepoosh> anybody know why ripple effect is not staying within the bounds of the layout that was clicked?
Dec 24 08:27:58 <RustyShackleford> I worked for this carpenter who fixed apartments. These places were terrible and they got $2400-$3000 bucks for them
Dec 24 08:28:01 <RustyShackleford> 2 bedrooms
Dec 24 08:28:18 <RustyShackleford> oh, this is chicago
Dec 24 08:28:47 <RustyShackleford> some places had roaches
Dec 24 08:29:53 <g00s> in the end, there will still be roaches
Dec 24 08:30:32 <RustyShackleford> i'm not particulary squeamish, but ugh it grossed me out so bad.
Dec 24 08:30:38 <thepoosh> roaches don't mean the apartment sucks
Dec 24 08:30:45 <thepoosh> they come in through the plumbing
Dec 24 08:31:19 <RustyShackleford> dealbreaker for me
Dec 24 08:31:31 <g00s> yeah .. but if there has been a problem for long, likely the place has been sprayed umpteen times with toxic shit
Dec 24 08:32:05 <g00s> neurotoxins ftl
Dec 24 08:34:25 <g00s> also sucks if you are allergic to cockroach crap
Dec 24 08:36:14 <HevvyMetal> so how much does it cost ologn?
Dec 24 08:36:14 <gordon_> we went offtopic again..
Dec 24 08:36:30 <HevvyMetal> i lived in berkeley and berkeley is very commutable but as a result its very expensive now
Dec 24 08:36:39 <HevvyMetal> sausalito also isn't too bad depending where you want to go
Dec 24 08:36:45 <HevvyMetal> so 30 mins how much is it in NYC?
Dec 24 08:36:53 <HevvyMetal> i couldnt even quote you a bay area price but its a lot
Dec 24 08:37:19 <HevvyMetal> thats why i dont want to move back to the bay area and i'm trying to get a telecommute gig
Dec 24 08:37:51 <RustyShackleford> do salaries increase proportionally to the cost of rent in a city?
Dec 24 08:38:11 <RustyShackleford> it must work out better in some cities than others
Dec 24 08:38:15 <HevvyMetal> yes and even worse RustyShackleford is that rents increase proportionally to the salaries paid!
Dec 24 08:38:17 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, I don't have a good concept of square feet.
Dec 24 08:38:21 <HevvyMetal> so there is no win there
Dec 24 08:38:26 <HevvyMetal> Ologn square meters
Dec 24 08:38:42 <HevvyMetal> for instance here is what's been going on in the bay area RustyShackleford
Dec 24 08:38:46 <HevvyMetal> you tell me the math solution
Dec 24 08:38:48 <HevvyMetal> i'm too dumb
Dec 24 08:38:51 <HevvyMetal> here's how it went
Dec 24 08:38:54 <HevvyMetal> say....
Dec 24 08:39:10 <HevvyMetal> 5 years ago...rents in SF were...maybe.... $2000 for 2 bdrm
Dec 24 08:39:21 <HevvyMetal> then google and all these people twitter move there
Dec 24 08:39:33 <HevvyMetal> so those ppl are making $100-$200k and if a dual income 2x that
Dec 24 08:39:45 <HevvyMetal> so then....the rents go up to sponge out all that income
Dec 24 08:39:50 <Ologn> I rented half of a 2 family house 30 minutes from Penn Station for $1250 a month in a low-crime but dull neighborhood.  It had more than enough space for me.
Dec 24 08:40:13 <HevvyMetal> ologn in the past or recent? that's definitely a good value
Dec 24 08:40:27 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, recently
Dec 24 08:40:27 <HevvyMetal> anyway now in sf a 2 bdrm apt is like $3500+
Dec 24 08:40:45 <RustyShackleford> yeah thats pretty high
Dec 24 08:40:49 <HevvyMetal> is that average or a lucked out deal? just curious..my impression of nyc is that it's expensive but if it's not then cool
Dec 24 08:41:06 <RustyShackleford> but if you're making 100k it's not so bad
Dec 24 08:41:12 <HevvyMetal> it is bad
Dec 24 08:41:16 <Ologn> San Francisco is 47 square miles
Dec 24 08:41:16 <HevvyMetal> $100k is not a lot
Dec 24 08:41:17 <RustyShackleford> are salaries REALLY that high in SF?
Dec 24 08:41:30 <HevvyMetal> yeah I see android DEVELOPER not manager, just dev
Dec 24 08:41:37 <HevvyMetal> for $150k-$200k+ in SF
Dec 24 08:41:48 <HevvyMetal> so I think about moving back there
Dec 24 08:41:48 <RustyShackleford> jesus really
Dec 24 08:41:55 <HevvyMetal> yeah really
Dec 24 08:41:59 <HevvyMetal> it's a bubble i think
Dec 24 08:42:01 <HevvyMetal> it can't last
Dec 24 08:42:01 <RustyShackleford> is that all just because of cost of living?
Dec 24 08:42:02 <JakeWharton> RustyShackleford: it's bad
Dec 24 08:42:08 <JakeWharton> pay my rent
Dec 24 08:42:15 <gordon_> mine too
Dec 24 08:42:17 <Ologn> HevvyMetal, New York is expensive if you feel you must live in the East Village or Williamsburg
Dec 24 08:42:20 <HevvyMetal> well jakewharton would know more he lives there now
Dec 24 08:42:26 <HevvyMetal> what are rents going for up there now JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 08:42:31 <RustyShackleford> dude if you're making 100k a year, thats 8300 bucks per month
Dec 24 08:42:31 <HevvyMetal> i live in so cal now
Dec 24 08:42:43 <RustyShackleford> you CAN afford $3500 in rent
Dec 24 08:42:47 <JakeWharton> RustyShackleford: taxes, bro
Dec 24 08:42:54 <HevvyMetal> +1
Dec 24 08:42:58 <JakeWharton> https://twitter.com/jakewharton/status/546494997789671424
Dec 24 08:42:58 <RustyShackleford> ah yeah i neglected those
Dec 24 08:43:14 <HevvyMetal> so after tax you're talkig about 50% paycheck for rent
Dec 24 08:43:16 <HevvyMetal> or close to it
Dec 24 08:43:19 <HevvyMetal> it's nutso
Dec 24 08:43:20 <g00s> HevvyMetal http://sfist.com/2014/10/08/median_one-bedroom_rent_in_sf_is_no.php
Dec 24 08:43:23 <RustyShackleford> i still don't feel bad for you haha
Dec 24 08:43:38 <HevvyMetal> what kills me is even in san diego where i live
Dec 24 08:43:40 <HevvyMetal> which is not like sf
Dec 24 08:43:47 <HevvyMetal> median rent for a house is now close to $3k!
Dec 24 08:43:51 <HevvyMetal> but the salaries are not there
Dec 24 08:44:04 <HevvyMetal> wow 1 bedroom $3200 see that's what i'm talking about g00s
Dec 24 08:44:13 <HevvyMetal> my house now is $2700 /month
Dec 24 08:44:14 <JakeWharton> $50k paying $600/mo for rent in some suburb you're netting more than most of SF
Dec 24 08:44:29 <RustyShackleford> i mean around here 100k is a high salary
Dec 24 08:44:39 <RustyShackleford> and chicago isn't particularly cheap
Dec 24 08:44:47 <HevvyMetal> huh JakeWharton ? $50k paying $600/month? who is? rusty?
Dec 24 08:45:00 <JakeWharton> i was looking at $600/mo places before i moved here
Dec 24 08:45:09 <JakeWharton> and making about 50k
Dec 24 08:45:11 <HevvyMetal> JakeWharton where in indiana? Or in the bay area?
Dec 24 08:45:17 <JakeWharton> PA
Dec 24 08:45:20 <HevvyMetal> right
Dec 24 08:45:24 <HevvyMetal> eastern pa or western?
Dec 24 08:45:26 <HevvyMetal> i went to CMU
Dec 24 08:45:27 <JakeWharton> west
Dec 24 08:45:31 <JakeWharton> yeah i'm from pittsburgh
Dec 24 08:45:31 <HevvyMetal> pgh?
Dec 24 08:45:35 <HevvyMetal> what part?
Dec 24 08:45:41 <JakeWharton> south. bethel park.
Dec 24 08:45:49 <HevvyMetal> is that south of pitt?
Dec 24 08:45:51 <Ologn> Back in 1991 I toured the CMU campus because they accepted me, but I passed because U Rochester was more exciting
Dec 24 08:45:56 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 08:46:07 <Ologn> My CMU sponsor took me to a prayer meeting
Dec 24 08:46:08 <HevvyMetal> CMU is a great school but it's very small and parking is terrible :)
Dec 24 08:46:25 <HevvyMetal> so you know what a pittsburgh left is JakeWharton ? do they still do that there?
Dec 24 08:46:28 <lewellyn> Ologn: and u rochester took you to a bar? ;)
Dec 24 08:46:42 <Ologn> lewellyn, a fraternity party
Dec 24 08:46:43 <JakeWharton> ha, yeah i know what it is. and I do it here... not sure about others
Dec 24 08:46:47 <lewellyn> close enough!
Dec 24 08:46:59 <HevvyMetal> dangerous to do it here JakeWharton
Dec 24 08:47:08 <HevvyMetal> but in pgh it's the law 2 lefts ona red
Dec 24 08:47:15 <HevvyMetal> hated the damn boots
Dec 24 08:47:20 <Ologn> Actually I sort of snuck into the SEI building near CMU and poked my head in the CERT office
Dec 24 08:47:21 <HevvyMetal> but loved the O dogs and Pace's
Dec 24 08:47:33 <HevvyMetal> did you see the flashcube building ologn?
Dec 24 08:47:44 <Ologn> CERT was like, the center of conspiracy theories back then, the illuminati of the net in 1991
Dec 24 08:48:52 <gordon_> https://i.imgur.com/KMM8q.jpg
Dec 24 08:49:47 <Ologn> gordon_, I think that picture is too kind for how I see designers
Dec 24 08:50:17 <Ologn> Maybe I've just had a bad string of them...
Dec 24 08:50:23 <capella-s3> ++
Dec 24 08:50:56 <capella-s3> but only because as an artist I suck
Dec 24 08:51:18 <gordon_> developers seen by project managers is pretty accurate ;)
Dec 24 09:26:39 <HevvyMetal> gordon_ yeah it's a tough battle
Dec 24 09:26:53 <HevvyMetal> i dealt with a pm like that recently
Dec 24 09:27:16 <HevvyMetal> and sysadm too
Dec 24 09:29:36 <HevvyMetal> anyone awake?
Dec 24 09:30:35 <HevvyMetal> anyway its cool JakeWharton i just noticed there were about 150 git projects out of square and that seemed like a lot for a "smaller" company but maybe it's huge now :)
Dec 24 09:30:52 <JakeWharton> there's like 40 forks
Dec 24 09:31:30 <JakeWharton> been killing them slowly
Dec 24 09:35:05 <HevvyMetal> of just yours or all 150?
Dec 24 09:35:29 <xgearx> sysadmins are evil
Dec 24 09:35:35 <HevvyMetal> what do you use for CI ? an internal mavenish setup?
Dec 24 09:35:41 <JakeWharton> internal or external?
Dec 24 09:35:51 <HevvyMetal> internal
Dec 24 09:36:00 <JakeWharton> https://github.com/square/kochiku
Dec 24 09:36:10 <JakeWharton> runs on a scaling deployment of 200 to 500 AWS instances
Dec 24 09:36:19 <HevvyMetal> that's for internal?
Dec 24 09:36:34 <gordon_> interesting
Dec 24 09:36:40 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 09:36:43 <HevvyMetal> what do you use for MVC? any popular projects or homebuilt something you put on github JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 09:36:46 <gordon_> why not jenkins ?
Dec 24 09:36:50 <JakeWharton> because jenkins is shit
Dec 24 09:36:58 <gordon_> haha
Dec 24 09:37:11 <JakeWharton> seriously though... it is
Dec 24 09:37:26 <gordon_> I liked it
Dec 24 09:37:30 <gordon_> but for maven projects
Dec 24 09:37:41 <gordon_> but maybe because I got good teacher :)
Dec 24 09:37:50 <JakeWharton> i think you have a bad teacher
Dec 24 09:38:07 <gordon_> nah, he was really smart gu
Dec 24 09:38:07 <gordon_> y
Dec 24 09:38:23 <JakeWharton> having used Jenkins on non-trivial things it really breaks down quickly
Dec 24 09:38:31 <JakeWharton> API is terrible for plugins
Dec 24 09:38:37 <JakeWharton> stuck in this weird limbo with Hudson after the fork
Dec 24 09:38:47 <JakeWharton> really terrible
Dec 24 09:39:07 <gordon_> it was working nicely for us with nexus and maven
Dec 24 09:39:31 <JakeWharton> yeah i never said it didn't work
Dec 24 09:39:32 <JakeWharton> it's just shit
Dec 24 09:39:54 <HevvyMetal> i just meant do you link your internal projects to some kind of server like taht
Dec 24 09:40:15 <HevvyMetal> or do they get picasso from maven or whatever or part of the modules/project file or copy and paste
Dec 24 09:40:21 <JakeWharton> that's an external project
Dec 24 09:40:47 <JakeWharton> picasso is released to maven central and has snapshots deploying to Sonatype's snapshot repo via Travis CI
Dec 24 09:41:09 <HevvyMetal> what about for internal JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 09:41:17 <JakeWharton> i already told you that above
Dec 24 09:41:38 <JakeWharton> we use kochiku
Dec 24 09:41:40 <HevvyMetal> well you said which tool but ultimately from the project standpoint it looks like a maven reference?
Dec 24 09:41:45 <HevvyMetal> but an internal version of hat/
Dec 24 09:41:58 <HevvyMetal> i normally am a sole developer so dont have to deal with this stuff :)
Dec 24 09:42:00 <HevvyMetal> but i'm curious
Dec 24 09:42:20 <JakeWharton> you can use whatever you want
Dec 24 09:42:52 <HevvyMetal> sysadms seen by developers is 100% accurate
Dec 24 09:42:53 <HevvyMetal> https://i.imgur.com/KMM8q.jpg
Dec 24 09:42:55 <JakeWharton> kochiku doesn't care. it just runs a bash script in your repo that can do whatever you please
Dec 24 09:42:59 <HevvyMetal> in fact it might be too generous
Dec 24 09:43:08 <HevvyMetal> the last ruby asshats i've dealt with have been comical
Dec 24 09:43:32 <JakeWharton> maven, gradle, make, ant, bash, and whatever other ridiculous crap people come up with
Dec 24 09:43:33 <thepoosh> our dev-ops guy loves ruby
Dec 24 09:43:37 <HevvyMetal> do you folks use ruby and is it worth it JakeWharton ? what about parse.com and delete all that web service layer? thoughts?
Dec 24 09:43:48 <JakeWharton> we use ruby for frontend stuff
Dec 24 09:43:56 <JakeWharton> hard to beat it for web dev
Dec 24 09:43:56 <HevvyMetal> yeah they all love ruby cuz they get $200k for wacking off with jackistrano
Dec 24 09:44:03 <HevvyMetal> web dev maybe but web services
Dec 24 09:44:05 <thepoosh> JakeWharton: but it has bad GC
Dec 24 09:44:12 <thepoosh> from what I recall from school
Dec 24 09:44:12 <JakeWharton> we run it on the JVM
Dec 24 09:44:16 <thepoosh> oh
Dec 24 09:44:29 <HevvyMetal> get this JakeWharton at one company i was with they couldnt deploy a new release of the ruby webservices onto aws for 3 MONTHS!
Dec 24 09:44:41 <HevvyMetal> on AWS I forgot to mention
Dec 24 09:44:43 <HevvyMetal> 3 months
Dec 24 09:44:48 <HevvyMetal> 3 ruby guys
Dec 24 09:44:50 <HevvyMetal> it was insane
Dec 24 09:44:56 <HevvyMetal> and they get $$$$ /year?
Dec 24 09:45:08 <HevvyMetal> I thik if ruby is that fragile..then forget it
Dec 24 09:45:22 <thepoosh> back in the day, I made this - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hW_gZaLTK7898KLf1fCFRCe4tVuXzIsAsoSvlWmTCOA/edit?usp=sharing
Dec 24 09:45:28 <JakeWharton> i think you developers are the fragile ones
Dec 24 09:45:44 <HevvyMetal> I just don't see what it has, especially now everyone going to single page angular
Dec 24 09:46:08 <HevvyMetal> first of all JakeWharton what's you developers? aren't you one? 2) the ops guys could not deploy ANYTHING not even a textual change for 3 months
Dec 24 09:46:21 <HevvyMetal> devs had already devved by then but they could not deploy
Dec 24 09:46:30 <JakeWharton> i don't see how that's ruby's problem though
Dec 24 09:46:44 <lewellyn> that's a management problem
Dec 24 09:46:59 <HevvyMetal> it is ruby's problem
Dec 24 09:47:04 <HevvyMetal> that errors are opaque
Dec 24 09:47:18 <HevvyMetal> that simple things take forever
Dec 24 09:47:23 <HevvyMetal> even asp.net is better than that
Dec 24 09:47:30 <HunterD> hi! can someone point me where can I find out if current android ndk supports all features of c11 (or how much of it)?
Dec 24 09:47:31 <HevvyMetal> ruby is just hipster
Dec 24 09:47:36 <lewellyn> you said the devs had devved. therefore ruby's not the problem.
Dec 24 09:47:37 <HevvyMetal> and most of ruby is css
Dec 24 09:47:50 <JakeWharton> ...er, what?
Dec 24 09:48:03 <HevvyMetal> lewellyn the devs HAD devved...on the android side and waiting for ruby webservices to catch up
Dec 24 09:48:03 <lewellyn> HunterD: it's safe to say that its support is no better than gcc, i think :)
Dec 24 09:48:13 <HevvyMetal> bottom line in our case the ruby guys were 1000% incompetent
Dec 24 09:48:22 <HevvyMetal> but just cuz they claimed to have ruby experience they got hired
Dec 24 09:48:26 <lewellyn> HevvyMetal: still sounds like a management issue, not an issue with the language.
Dec 24 09:48:35 <JakeWharton> OK but again that's not Ruby's fault
Dec 24 09:48:55 <HevvyMetal> I just think ruby (to me) seems opaque and brittle
Dec 24 09:48:59 <HevvyMetal> yes management was at fault
Dec 24 09:49:01 <HevvyMetal> for sure
Dec 24 09:49:07 <HevvyMetal> but I don't see it as being a dropkick
Dec 24 09:49:19 <HevvyMetal> get this JakeWharton on my last project a guy claimed to have 8 years of android expreince and the manager bought it what do you think?
Dec 24 09:49:21 <HevvyMetal> 8 years?
Dec 24 09:49:25 <HevvyMetal> of android
Dec 24 09:49:29 <HevvyMetal> what does everyone here think?
Dec 24 09:49:38 <lewellyn> languages are tools. they're only as effective at completing a task as the craftsman is.
Dec 24 09:49:39 <JakeWharton> I think I have 7 years
Dec 24 09:49:52 <JakeWharton> Can't remember
Dec 24 09:49:57 <HevvyMetal> Well according to google first public was Sept 2008
Dec 24 09:50:05 <HevvyMetal> so that's about 6 years
Dec 24 09:50:08 <HevvyMetal> for public
Dec 24 09:50:16 <thepoosh> we have a guy here said he started doing android 6 months before Google bought it
Dec 24 09:50:32 <HevvyMetal> now anyone who even has, 6 years,  is gonna get at least $250k thepoosh maybe more
Dec 24 09:50:40 <HevvyMetal> they'd be working at samsung, htc, google, etc
Dec 24 09:50:41 <thepoosh> not me
Dec 24 09:50:47 <thepoosh> I started 3 years ago
Dec 24 09:50:50 <HevvyMetal> right
Dec 24 09:51:03 <lewellyn> years of experience != skill
Dec 24 09:51:06 <HevvyMetal> so would you believe a resume of some guy with "8" years of android going for < $250k
Dec 24 09:51:12 <HevvyMetal> exactly the guy had only 2 apps!!!
Dec 24 09:51:15 <JakeWharton> November 5th, 2007 was the first version available
Dec 24 09:51:16 <HevvyMetal> for his supposed 8 years
Dec 24 09:51:21 <thepoosh> that sounds like BS
Dec 24 09:51:24 <lewellyn> 6y7
Dec 24 09:51:27 <HevvyMetal> it was bs
Dec 24 09:51:31 <JakeWharton> I have only 1 app
Dec 24 09:51:33 <HevvyMetal> but the manager bought it
Dec 24 09:51:38 <HevvyMetal> should i have brought it up?
Dec 24 09:51:40 <thepoosh> JakeWharton: you have ABS
Dec 24 09:51:46 <HevvyMetal> well you have some libs at least
Dec 24 09:51:47 <thepoosh> I think that's good enough
Dec 24 09:51:55 <JakeWharton> And 5000 downloads!
Dec 24 09:52:00 <thepoosh> YAY!!!
Dec 24 09:52:03 <thepoosh> I have Glide
Dec 24 09:52:03 <HevvyMetal> what app is that JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 09:52:10 <thepoosh> sort of
Dec 24 09:52:12 <JakeWharton> The best app ever
Dec 24 09:52:17 <thepoosh> is that the title?
Dec 24 09:52:20 <JakeWharton> Targets Android 1.1
Dec 24 09:52:22 <HevvyMetal> well you can't get hired you don't have 3 apps on the app store JakeWharton
Dec 24 09:52:25 <thepoosh> LOL
Dec 24 09:52:28 <HevvyMetal> and you dont use jenkins
Dec 24 09:52:34 <thepoosh> :D
Dec 24 09:52:38 <HevvyMetal> everyone uses that so that's a requirement ;)
Dec 24 09:52:49 <HevvyMetal> and qira too
Dec 24 09:54:11 <HevvyMetal> so ne good thoughts on MVC packages for android?
Dec 24 10:11:56 <Ologn> The API came out before the first phone
Dec 24 10:14:07 <Ologn> I guess that was the November 2007 API release
Dec 24 10:19:36 <gordon_> I write android for 1 year :>
Dec 24 10:20:09 <gordon_> but at this company they hired freelancer once
Dec 24 10:20:13 <gordon_> to implement one feature
Dec 24 10:20:20 <gordon_> he had like 5 years of android ?
Dec 24 10:20:25 <VnM> Over 2 years here, but Android never writes back
Dec 24 10:20:29 <gordon_> I've never seen just a crappy code :D
Dec 24 10:20:56 <gordon_> ok there was another one
Dec 24 10:20:59 <gordon_> that was worse
Dec 24 10:21:21 <gordon_> when I think of him sometimes one thing comes to my mind -> random
Dec 24 10:21:33 <gordon_> that guy loved to put some random for some reason
Dec 24 10:21:36 <gordon_> in many places
Dec 24 10:36:20 <thepoosh> hmmm crappy code is crappy
Dec 24 10:36:47 <thepoosh> some people just start coding bad in one place and inertia helps them get the next job
Dec 24 10:41:09 <ChrisUK> if you have a progress dialog in place can the user press the back key on the phone?
Dec 24 10:42:53 <xgearx> HevvyMetal: from?
Dec 24 10:43:13 <xgearx> i read about 8 years of exp story
Dec 24 10:43:32 <xgearx> looks like it is east europe
Dec 24 10:44:38 <xgearx> so even 7 years of android dev exp - is android overlord
Dec 24 10:52:44 <ggVGc> has anyone heard of Giftiz?
Dec 24 10:52:59 <ggVGc> or AdBuddiz?
Dec 24 11:10:19 <Odaym> yea if you set that dialog to be dismissable, ChrisUK
Dec 24 11:12:27 <Mavrik> user can also always press the back button to close the app
Dec 24 11:14:52 <lasserix> how to do dev on one screen?
Dec 24 11:15:13 <lasserix> what's the best way to organize emulator, debugger, code editor?
Dec 24 11:15:32 <lasserix> just alt tab through them all full screen?
Dec 24 11:15:54 <smellymoo> hey guys, having problems getting eclipse to build the NDK hello-JNI... on linux
Dec 24 11:16:12 <smellymoo> doesn't seem to be compiling the .so
Dec 24 11:17:42 <Mavrik> lasserix, depends on size of the screen
Dec 24 11:17:48 <Mavrik> I have them side-by-side but I have a 32" monitor
Dec 24 11:17:50 <smellymoo> spent an hour fiddling, nothing is fixing it.
Dec 24 11:18:01 <lasserix> 19:6 moniter
Dec 24 11:18:06 <Mavrik> smellymoo, first get compilation working in command line
Dec 24 11:18:08 <lasserix> i am stuck on my laptop
Dec 24 11:18:09 <Mavrik> use IDE after that
Dec 24 11:18:13 <lasserix> until the morning anyways
Dec 24 11:18:22 <Mavrik> lasserix, multiple desktops with maximised window on each?
Dec 24 11:18:30 <lasserix> I am stuck on laptop
Dec 24 11:18:32 <lasserix> till the morning
Dec 24 11:18:43 <smellymoo> Mavrik. ok.
Dec 24 11:18:51 <lasserix> not allowed to set up my work station since the house is packed full of relatives
Dec 24 11:18:56 <Mavrik> do ndk-build and see what the error is.
Dec 24 11:19:09 <lasserix> although i am very tempted to use this 60' inch moniter to the left of me
Dec 24 11:19:15 <smellymoo> sure, it was... wait, I'll check.
Dec 24 11:20:10 <smellymoo> cannot stat ‘./obj/local/arm64-v8a/libhello-jni.so’: No such file or directory
Dec 24 11:20:10 <smellymoo> make: *** [libs/arm64-v8a/libhello-jni.so] Error 1
Dec 24 11:20:17 <smellymoo> so it failed to compile I guess.
Dec 24 11:23:52 <smellymoo> Mavrik, any ideas?
Dec 24 11:24:08 <Mavrik> smellymoo, yes, read the full output
Dec 24 11:24:13 <Mavrik> not just last one line.
Dec 24 11:24:16 <Mavrik> There's an error written in there.
Dec 24 11:24:39 <lasserix> Anyone know if it is possible to store alpha channel as color resource in xml?
Dec 24 11:26:16 <smellymoo> Mavrik, no error was stated anywhere, the line before was compiling to .so, so I guess it failed... hmm, is there a verbose...
Dec 24 11:30:00 <Nick-S> so what do you guys reall think of kotlin
Dec 24 11:30:26 <lasserix> Are the different roboto weights available to use?
Dec 24 11:30:30 <lasserix> like normal heavy etc etc
Dec 24 11:32:35 <aaearon> after my view is recycled, the mapview isnt moving to the specified coordinates specified by map.moveCamera http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27524404/movecamera-triggered-by-button-onclicklistener-not-moving-camera-after-view-that
Dec 24 11:33:33 <smellymoo> Mavrik, there is no info. it just says that.
Dec 24 11:33:55 <Mavrik> you should certanly get a compile error unless you're doing something really dumb
Dec 24 11:34:02 <Mavrik> try doing V=1 ndk-build and see what compiler invokes
Dec 24 11:39:54 <lasserix> Anyone know if it possible to specify Roboto font weights?
Dec 24 11:40:29 <Mavrik> lasserix, use font-family
Dec 24 11:40:48 <lasserix> and all the robotos are available in 4.0 and up?
Dec 24 11:45:20 <smellymoo> Mavrik, really nothing useful being said.
Dec 24 11:45:57 <Nick-S> hey guys can anyone take a peek why my object won't serialize? https://gist.github.com/leviyehonatan/1dcbb146fe34838ca534
Dec 24 11:47:51 <smellymoo> Mavrik. am I supposed to make the build.xml first?.. followed 3 step by step guides, it just doesn't make the .so
Dec 24 11:48:05 <Mavrik> smellymoo, what build.xml?
Dec 24 11:48:14 <Mavrik> native builds are controlled by jni/Android.mk and Application.mk files
Dec 24 11:48:27 <Mavrik> ndk-build with V=1 WILL give you output of what gcc is doing
Dec 24 11:48:30 <Mavrik> error WILL be in there.
Dec 24 11:48:34 <smellymoo> Mavrik, f' knows, was stabbing in the dark from a step by step guide for eclipse.
Dec 24 11:48:52 <adkins> is it ok to pass an activity-context to an app-utils static function?
Dec 24 11:49:13 <Mavrik> adkins, as long as it doesn't cache it yeah
Dec 24 11:49:18 <Mavrik> adkins, if it does, pass application context
Dec 24 11:49:23 <smellymoo> Mavrik, yeah, well WILL, doesn't make it compile or do what you expect. it ain't I can show you the output.
Dec 24 11:50:00 <adkins> Mavrik: what do you mean if it doesnt cache? do you mean as long as it is not a member of AppUtils-ClasS?
Dec 24 11:50:20 <Mavrik> adkins, no, as long as that method doesn't keep the reference to it somewhere
Dec 24 11:50:24 <Mavrik> which would cause a memory leak
Dec 24 11:51:05 <adkins> Mavrik: how can it keep it if it is not a member?
Dec 24 11:52:10 <adkins> i can imagine if it would call another function in that class with the passed context. Would be kept for a short while then
Dec 24 11:52:11 <smellymoo> Mavrik, http://pastebin.com/5knBz4F5
Dec 24 11:54:38 <Mavrik> adkins, I don't understand your question.
Dec 24 11:55:09 <Mavrik> smellymoo, first two lines.
Dec 24 11:55:09 <Mavrik> Android NDK: Could not find application project directory !
Dec 24 11:55:10 <Mavrik> Android NDK: Please define the NDK_PROJECT_PATH variable to point to it.
Dec 24 11:55:15 <adkins> Mavrik: thats the function: http://pastebin.com/RJGNfU0y
Dec 24 11:55:21 <adkins> in the utils class
Dec 24 11:55:31 <Mavrik> adkins, yes?
Dec 24 11:55:43 <adkins> i pass different activity-contexts to that function
Dec 24 11:55:55 <Mavrik> yeah, that should be safe
Dec 24 11:56:03 <Mavrik> since the context isn't retained anywhere in there.
Dec 24 11:56:20 <smellymoo> Mavrik, no, that is from running build with no path, was trying to get the help page, shouldn't have included that. look down a few lines to where I run it properly.
Dec 24 11:56:28 <Mavrik> smellymoo, you have to run ndk-build from within your app directory.
Dec 24 11:57:09 <smellymoo> Mavrik, yup, did, look down a bit.
Dec 24 11:57:24 <adkins> Mavrik: ok, thanks. but still want to understand you better. If i dont do like mContext=context in that function to store that context in the member mContext of AppUtils-Class.....how can it be still referenced if i dont do it like this? (just curious)
Dec 24 11:57:37 <Mavrik> smellymoo, is your target set to something before android-15? something missing 64-bit ARM support?
Dec 24 11:57:50 <Mavrik> adkins, it can't :)
Dec 24 11:58:00 <adkins> ok good ;)
Dec 24 11:58:06 <Mavrik> adkins, I was just warning you that you should not pass activities to static functions that do exactly that :)
Dec 24 11:58:28 <Mavrik> adkins, as long as that doesn't happen it's perfectly fine to use activity contextx
Dec 24 11:58:33 <adkins> ok, thx i wouldnt do that ;)
Dec 24 11:59:28 <threenuc> Hey guys. I noticed the "Getting Started" tutorial switched from recommending Eclipse to Android Studio. So which one do I use?
Dec 24 12:00:29 <Mavrik> threenuc, AS if you're starting now and have no old projects
Dec 24 12:00:45 <threenuc> Mavrik, ok thanks
Dec 24 12:00:45 <Mavrik> Or you want to do most of your app in C++
Dec 24 12:00:47 <adkins> Mavrik: another question: if i pass an activity to another class (non static) is there something i should consider? maybe passing it as final WeakReference<Activity> or something?
Dec 24 12:01:01 <threenuc> Mavrik: ... you can make android apps in c++?
Dec 24 12:01:24 <Mavrik> adkins, it depends again if that class will keep the activity around or not after the activity goes away :)
Dec 24 12:01:34 <smellymoo> Mavrik, will look :).
Dec 24 12:01:37 <Mavrik> weakreferences are usually not a good idea
Dec 24 12:01:53 <Mavrik> smellymoo, it looks like it's trying to look for an object file for ARM64 build and it can't find it...
Dec 24 12:02:00 <Mavrik> threenuc, you can build part of them yes.
Dec 24 12:02:10 <Mavrik> thepoosh, it's horrible and will make you have yourself and your pets.
Dec 24 12:02:15 <Mavrik> er, threenuc
Dec 24 12:02:21 <threenuc> Mavrik: and the other part is written in XML or something?
Dec 24 12:02:31 <Mavrik> nop, still Java :P
Dec 24 12:02:53 <threenuc> Meh. I already know C++ :c Java is dumb
Dec 24 12:03:09 <Mavrik> I'm sure Java dislikes you too son :P
Dec 24 12:03:17 <threenuc> T-thanks dad
Dec 24 12:03:58 <threenuc> By the way do you recommend learning Java first or learning Java along with android dev?
Dec 24 12:04:49 <gsteinert> threenuc: I learned Java (from knowing C++) along with android development
Dec 24 12:05:32 <threenuc> welp, thanks, gonna adev now
Dec 24 12:05:39 <Mavrik> threenuc, well... I guess you can do both, but Android docs won't really explain Java concepts used in the API for you
Dec 24 12:05:43 <Mavrik> so that's hard mode I guess :)
Dec 24 12:05:44 <gsteinert> you've just got to know when a problem you're facing is a java problem (so look up general java docs) or an android issue (so look up android docs)
Dec 24 12:07:07 <adkins> Mavrik: lets say i have some non-activity class like a ClickListener which i pass my MainActivity to in constructor and keep it in a member(m_MainActivity), for triggering in the function onClick the function m_MainActivity.doSomething().
Dec 24 12:07:08 <adkins> How do i avoid that this member is kept if MainActivity gets destroyed/goes away? hope its not too complicated explained. If so i make it more clear with some code
Dec 24 12:07:43 <Mavrik> adkins, you just make sure that class isn't kept anwyhere else
Dec 24 12:07:55 <Mavrik> adkins, if you create a new instance of that class just to assign it to a view that's part of the activity
Dec 24 12:08:05 <Mavrik> it'll get collected as activity gets collected since nothing else holds a reference to it
Dec 24 12:08:41 <adkins> Mavrik: oh ok the object of that ClickListener-Class has just to stay in MainActivity and cant be used in another class/activity?
Dec 24 12:09:20 <Mavrik> adkins, yes, or if it's used/passed somewhere else, that "else" either isn't supposed to live through the activity lifecycle or it's not supposed to hold on to that object longer
Dec 24 12:09:22 <Mavrik> if that makes sense
Dec 24 12:11:13 <adkins> more or less i guess ;) -probably yes ;) But i can assign that ClickListener-Object to other views as long as they are in the same MainActivity-Class right?
Dec 24 12:13:46 <adkins> Mavrik:
Dec 24 12:14:15 <Mavrik> adkins, yep
Dec 24 12:14:28 <adkins> Mavrik: alright, thanks a lot dude
Dec 24 12:24:38 <thepoosh> Mavrik: ?
Dec 24 12:24:48 <thepoosh> oh, you were talking to cpp guy
Dec 24 12:24:50 <thepoosh> nvm
Dec 24 12:47:18 <smellymoo>  Mavrik "it looks like it's trying to look for an object file for ARM64 build and it can't find it" - so how do you mean? checked the checksum of the download of ndk and it matches, but when I extracted it it did have 600 errors reported. normal?
Dec 24 12:53:38 <aaearon> damn just discovered viewholders and recyclerview
Dec 24 12:53:42 <aaearon> killer performance increased
Dec 24 12:53:45 <aaearon> -d
Dec 24 12:54:57 <marrrk> Happy Christmas!
Dec 24 12:56:14 <capella> 16 hours til
Dec 24 12:57:49 <marrrk> Happy belated Christmas 2013 to capella then
Dec 24 12:59:34 <thepoosh> capella: now is the time to remember high fibre diets and Mr. Hankey
Dec 24 12:59:38 <thepoosh> *Hanky
Dec 24 12:59:49 <thepoosh> marrrk: ^
Dec 24 13:00:19 <capella-n7> 🎅
Dec 24 13:00:42 <capella> I love Towlie <3
Dec 24 13:00:58 <capella> (Wanna get high?)
Dec 24 13:01:00 <thepoosh> I am talking about Mr. Hanky!!!
Dec 24 13:01:12 <thepoosh> and I ALWAYS know where my towel is
Dec 24 13:02:05 <blusky> is this a "see how much i know south park" contest ? =D
Dec 24 13:02:43 <capella> . o O ( It was about then, that I noticed that the girl scout, was about three stories tall and hailed from the jurassaic period )
Dec 24 13:02:45 <thepoosh> no, the "always know where your towel is" is from the hitchhiker's guide
Dec 24 13:03:06 <thepoosh> capella: defaq?
Dec 24 13:03:07 <blusky> thepoosh: not the "14:00 < capella> I love Towlie <3 / 14:00 < capella> (Wanna get high?)"
Dec 24 13:03:16 <capella> she said ... "I'm gonna need 'bout tree-fiddy"
Dec 24 13:03:21 <thepoosh> well, that is from the re-run episode
Dec 24 13:03:27 <thepoosh> LOLLL
Dec 24 13:06:43 <lasserix> Are any of the non-standard/normal font weights for roboto available natively in the android sdk to use in apps?
Dec 24 13:07:14 <marrrk> Roboto...
Dec 24 13:07:57 <marrrk> Come on, emancipate yourself from fontal slavery
Dec 24 13:08:27 <thepoosh> LOL
Dec 24 13:08:34 <thepoosh> no one but you can free yourself
Dec 24 13:08:50 <thepoosh> lasserix: http://stackoverflow.com/a/13329907/1056359
Dec 24 13:14:30 <lasserix> oh great
Dec 24 13:14:36 <lasserix> more fragmentation styles to make
Dec 24 13:14:47 <lasserix> thanks thepoosh
Dec 24 13:15:16 <lasserix> marrrk... have you ever been to a website that offers free fonts?
Dec 24 13:15:33 <smellymoo> there are many.
Dec 24 13:15:34 <lasserix> i'd rather be a font slave and not get lost in the sea of font noise
Dec 24 13:15:47 <smellymoo> ahh, get your point.
Dec 24 13:15:53 <lasserix> maybe if i were making an app that it mattered
Dec 24 13:15:56 <lasserix> like a quotes app sure
Dec 24 13:16:33 <marrrk> In what app would it not matter?
Dec 24 13:17:20 <lasserix> keyboard app
Dec 24 13:17:31 <lasserix> probably want font to be system font since the keyboard will be
Dec 24 13:18:00 <lasserix> since even if the keys were styled the output wouldn't and that would be kinda weird
Dec 24 13:18:14 <lasserix> besides i think roboto is fine
Dec 24 13:18:29 <marrrk> Keyboard!
Dec 24 13:18:58 <lasserix> KEYBOARD
Dec 24 13:21:42 <marrrk> Google always said "don't be evil". Then they made Roboto.
Dec 24 13:22:27 <lasserix> marrrk what do you have agaisnt roboto?
Dec 24 13:22:42 <lasserix> i think how the genymotion emulator matches my laptop battery level
Dec 24 13:24:19 <smellymoo> Mavrik, fucking computers. it was the when I extracted the NDK it lost some files. bastarting computer wasting my time.
Dec 24 13:24:47 <abara> hey guys did you how can i user elevation and translationZ properties on API versions before 21
Dec 24 13:24:49 <abara> ?
Dec 24 13:25:28 <marrrk> It seems as though they have improved Roboto recently. Maybe there is some hope after all.
Dec 24 13:27:11 <marrrk> http://ivanukhov.com/roboto/
Dec 24 13:28:43 <SimonVT> abara: You can't
Dec 24 13:29:36 <marrrk> abara: Just wait two years before you use this revolutionary feature.
Dec 24 13:32:28 <the_cyber_guy> app crashes with QHD displays. what changes are required to support QHD devices?
Dec 24 13:32:45 <Nick-S> i love uhd...
Dec 24 13:34:19 <Nick-S> none of you guys can take a minute on my code that won't serialize to json using gson?
Dec 24 13:34:36 <Nick-S> come on, lets be there for each other!
Dec 24 13:34:57 <the_cyber_guy> for now QHD support is required but it will be better if the fix will work with UHD too. any guide or tutorial available anywhere?
Dec 24 13:35:12 <Nick-S> i don't do gui
Dec 24 13:35:19 <Nick-S> on any platform
Dec 24 13:35:37 <capella> meh - arstechnica seems down
Dec 24 13:36:19 <the_cyber_guy> yep down here too
Dec 24 13:36:45 <Nick-S> https://gist.github.com/leviyehonatan/1dcbb146fe34838ca534
Dec 24 13:36:57 <Nick-S> look at it, its so beautiful
Dec 24 13:37:06 <Nick-S> but doesnt write json properly
Dec 24 13:42:35 <FrancescoV> Somebody experience with android-beacon-lib or estimote?
Dec 24 13:54:08 <thepoosh> mmmmmmm bacon....
Dec 24 13:54:23 <capella> set that margin indent down to like 4
Dec 24 13:54:31 <Nick-S> thepoosh: can't believe you didn't solve my puzzle yet
Dec 24 13:54:51 <thepoosh> the GSON onw?
Dec 24 13:54:57 <thepoosh> one
Dec 24 13:55:29 <marrrk> Nick-S: Why are you using gson? Don't you know that GSON uses reflection?
Dec 24 13:55:40 <Nick-S> ?!
Dec 24 13:55:51 <thepoosh> what are you talking about?!
Dec 24 13:57:37 <marrrk_> Nick-S: How are you even running that on an Android device?
Dec 24 13:58:08 <Nick-S> marrrk_: its running... everyone's using it, its the default retrofit covnerter for json
Dec 24 13:58:45 <thepoosh> GSON
Dec 24 14:01:17 <marrrk> Nick-S: Have you tried the same code without inner classes?
Dec 24 14:02:32 <Number5> Hello guys, I have a working project, but I need one thing to perfection it. I have a list view with items containing an imageview. I load the images from storage device, now I just read the file in the main thread. Which is not the way it should. What's the best way to load it asynchronously while the item can be out of scope of the list view?
Dec 24 14:03:16 <Nick-S> marrk
Dec 24 14:03:21 <Nick-S> marrrk: well no
Dec 24 14:03:26 <marrrk> Number5: You can try with Picasso?
Dec 24 14:03:56 <marrrk> Number5: Sorry, I did not intend to put a question mark at the end of a suggestion.
Dec 24 14:04:28 <aaearon> yeah picasso is beautiful
Dec 24 14:04:59 <marrrk> Nick-S: Does that mean that it doesn't work even if you put the classes outside?
Dec 24 14:05:00 <Number5> marrrk, I've seen this library, but it's a bit overkill for what I want. I already do a lazy download, which works well. It's just that when the images are downloaded, I want to read the images from the storage asynchronously .
Dec 24 14:05:15 <Nick-S> marrrk: i haven't tried
Dec 24 14:05:50 <marrrk> Number5: What makes it overkill? It just makes your life easier.
Dec 24 14:06:37 <Mavrik> Number5, use a executor with futures, or rx, or something that allows you to keep a reference to the queued load task and cancel it as the view gets recycled
Dec 24 14:06:53 <Number5> Yes, indeed. But I already wrote my own adapter and everything in it. except that asynchronous read from file.
Dec 24 14:07:43 <marrrk> Well then make an ugly asynctask if you want to make your life unnecessarily difficult
Dec 24 14:08:21 <Number5> Mavrik, yes that administrative task needed to keep track of references is interesting. I recall using weak references... hmmm I'll check it out.
Dec 24 14:09:25 <Number5> marrrk, my piece of code works great and efficient, using a queue to load next image etc..
Dec 24 14:09:47 <Mavrik> um, using weakreferences doesn't sound right
Dec 24 14:09:48 <Number5> anyway, thnx for your suggestions
Dec 24 14:09:58 <Mavrik> you want to hold a strong reference so you can dequeue a waiting task
Dec 24 14:10:21 <Number5> anyway, thank you.
Dec 24 14:24:14 <MetalHead77> Hi. I'm building an android phonegap chat application. What's the most efficient way of storing the chat history? Is it efficient to use a remote database or?
Dec 24 14:25:27 <MalekAlrwily> Hi
Dec 24 14:26:11 <MalekAlrwily> anyone success about support javascript for Android Studio?
Dec 24 14:41:58 <Mavrik> MalekAlrwily, afaik you need IDEA Ultimate for that
Dec 24 14:44:32 <jumpstracks> hi all,  need some help diagnosing a sig 11, only occurs on some emulators
Dec 24 14:46:35 <jumpstracks> I believe the sig 11 fault occurs when it’s performing a https post.  Works fine on 4.4.2, but not on other 4.x or 5.x versions
Dec 24 14:47:07 <jiraffe> hmm
Dec 24 14:47:36 <jumpstracks> 12-24 09:41:52.730: A/libc(2152): Fatal signal 11 (SIGSEGV), code 1, fault addr 0x8e000000cc in tid 2196 (Thread-158)
Dec 24 14:51:37 <jumpstracks> fwiw occurs in an asynctask while retrieve https
Dec 24 14:56:26 <MalekAlrwily> Mavrick: thank you
Dec 24 15:04:12 <JohnPoison> hi! I have problems with mounting obb on different devices. onObbStateChange(String path, int state) not being called, with message about bad permissions related to mounting. Problem sometimes solves with completely unloading app from memory
Dec 24 15:04:43 <JohnPoison> any clues?
Dec 24 15:07:25 <supay> i see that the AS layout element attributes that are automatically generated aren't showing properly. They're not on separate lines.. is that something happening only on my AS installation?
Dec 24 15:07:34 <supay> for ex: I get exactly this:
Dec 24 15:07:44 <supay> <TextView android:text="@string/hello_world" android:layout_width="wrap_content"
Dec 24 15:07:44 <supay>         android:layout_height="wrap_content" />
Dec 24 15:08:01 <supay> instead of:
Dec 24 15:08:03 <supay> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/XeWiwJj6
Dec 24 15:08:11 <supay> is there a fix for this?
Dec 24 15:09:54 <Mavrik> supay, the way AS formats your code is set in code style settings in preferences
Dec 24 15:11:15 <YiamiYo> hello...I'm interested in hardware accelerated video decoding using androind ndk for android 2.3+...could i do it with ffmpeg?
Dec 24 15:11:28 <supay> Mavrik: im not sure which setting to change to fix this? but i see a lot of settings for the XML code style. thanks. i guess its all trial and error now
Dec 24 15:12:09 <Mavrik> supay, there's an option "Import Android XML style" next to it :)
Dec 24 15:12:20 <jumpstracks> hmm appears nothing to do with https, at leats not directly - I’m getting to the debug in the work queue below.  is there a recomemnded way to share code here vs copy paste?
Dec 24 15:13:29 <deebo> YiamiYo: look at for example kodi, or plex
Dec 24 15:13:33 <supay> Mavrik: im dont see this option.. im on the latest Android Studio (v 1.0.2)
Dec 24 15:14:27 <Mavrik> supay, the blue "Set From -> predefined -> Android" ?
Dec 24 15:15:08 <supay> Mavrik: ah, yes.. i have that. thanks a ton! :D
Dec 24 15:15:20 <Nick-S> anyone knows how to deal with ServiceConnection leaked on a start_sticky service?
Dec 24 15:24:30 <Darklust> Sitting in an airport with my flight delayed...
Dec 24 15:24:40 <TacticalJoke> Where are you flying to?
Dec 24 15:24:56 <Darklust> Back to Tampa from Syracuse
Dec 24 15:30:40 <YiamiYo> is mediacodec accessible directly from the ndk or only through jni?
Dec 24 15:31:40 <AlexBerdnikov> Hi everybody. I implement some simple image editing/sketch drawing app. I have a rotation/scaling feature and the currently selected image has additional "focus" elements around it http://i.imgur.com/i22waUq.png  The "focus" elements(corners) implemented using transparent RelativeLayout with images aligned to the respective sides. My problem is that when image is scaled so it's bigger than parent element(RelativeLayout as well)
Dec 24 15:31:40 <AlexBerdnikov> my focus-layer stops to grow( http://i.imgur.com/aXoiciu.png ) because its maximum size constrained by the parent's size. How can I make child RelativeLayout or View bigger than parent?
Dec 24 15:36:13 <TacticalJoke> Oh, I love those code changes that not only make code more readable but also improve performance.
Dec 24 15:44:49 <helichopter> Hey guys, is there a recommended way of turning a sqlite row into a POJO? Right now, I’m manually getting all the column values and then individually setting each field.
Dec 24 15:46:08 <Fah> TacticalJoke: you're looking for an orm
Dec 24 15:46:37 <Fah> There are many to pick from
Dec 24 15:47:21 <Fah> check out ormlite and sugarorm, but google can show you lots of different ones
Dec 24 15:50:36 <helichopter> oh cool, thanks for pointing them out
Dec 24 16:12:29 <R4md4c> Hello, I'm using new Canvas(bitmap); to draw on a bitmap, I'm drawing a group of circles with colors, the question is how do I replace a circle with the original part of the image that was there? I tried PorterDuff modes but I had no success, any idea how could I acheive that ?
Dec 24 16:14:10 <supay> i wonder why i can't see my app icon on my action bar. im using a blank activity with fragment. all my xml
Dec 24 16:14:28 <supay> i wonder why i can't see my app icon on my action bar. im using a blank activity with fragment. all my xmls* are using Holo Light with dark action bar
Dec 24 16:15:14 <supay> (sorry about repost, pressed return key accidentally)
Dec 24 16:26:39 <TacticalJoke> supay:  Are you using showHome in your actionBarStyle?
Dec 24 16:27:35 <supay> TacticalJoke: i haven't created any actionBarStyle as of yet.. im not sure if it has been autogenerated
Dec 24 16:29:40 <TacticalJoke> Take a look in /res/values/styles.xml or /res/values/themes.xml.
Dec 24 16:29:53 <TacticalJoke> Look for "android:displayOptions".
Dec 24 16:31:17 <supay> TacticalJoke: i dont have a themes.xml, only a styles.xml.. and its empty.
Dec 24 16:31:19 <supay> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/8GFnxy7E
Dec 24 16:32:39 <TacticalJoke> Oh, you're using AppCompat?
Dec 24 16:33:12 <supay> nope, i dont think so
Dec 24 16:33:16 <TacticalJoke> I haven't used it lately.  I wonder whether "Theme.AppCompat.Light.DarkActionBar" doesn't show an icon by default (because the whole material thing).
Dec 24 16:33:20 <TacticalJoke> of^
Dec 24 16:34:37 <supay> android:theme="@style/AppTheme"
Dec 24 16:35:14 <supay> shit
Dec 24 16:35:15 <supay> yes
Dec 24 16:35:27 <supay> could i fix it by using some other theme?
Dec 24 16:36:13 <TacticalJoke> You could use Theme.Holo.Light.DarkActionBar.
Dec 24 16:36:24 <TacticalJoke> I'd try that and see whether the icon comes back.  I'm guessing it will.
Dec 24 16:36:59 <TacticalJoke> supay:  Note that, as far as I understand it, *not* showing an icon up there is now the typical thing (at least in "material design").
Dec 24 16:37:35 <supay> oh, i see.. i was worried that i was doing something wrong.. will try Theme.Holo.Light.DarkActionBar and tell you what happens
Dec 24 16:37:35 <regreddit> supay, yeah if you are on API 21, no app icon
Dec 24 16:37:40 <regreddit> add it back with this:
Dec 24 16:37:42 <supay> ah.. well i am on api 21
Dec 24 16:38:00 <TacticalJoke> supay:  But you should get an icon with Holo.
Dec 24 16:38:27 <regreddit> 1: use the supportActionBar 2: getSupportActionBar().setIcon(R.drawable.ic_launcher);
Dec 24 16:38:50 <supay> TacticalJoke: "Cant resolve symbol Theme.Holo.Light.DarkActionBar.."
Dec 24 16:39:56 <regreddit> TacticalJoke, on api21 the theme alone wont get you the icon, you have to add it in the activity startup
Dec 24 16:40:44 <TacticalJoke> supay:  What is your minSdkVersion?
Dec 24 16:40:46 <regreddit> bringing app themes forward in Android is a mess
Dec 24 16:40:55 <TacticalJoke> regreddit:  Not in my experience.  At least, on the 5.0 emulator, I see the icon.
Dec 24 16:40:57 <supay> TacticalJoke: 2.3.3
Dec 24 16:41:37 <regreddit> API 11?
Dec 24 16:41:42 <regreddit> 10?
Dec 24 16:42:00 <supay> 10! :)
Dec 24 16:42:07 <supay> you seem surprised
Dec 24 16:42:21 <regreddit> so you are using AppCompat and the support library?
Dec 24 16:42:28 <regreddit> no, i support back that far
Dec 24 16:42:33 <TacticalJoke> Holo isn't available for that API level.
Dec 24 16:42:38 <MalekAlrwily> How to run a java code in gradle task?
Dec 24 16:42:43 <TacticalJoke> Why is your minSdkVersion so low?
Dec 24 16:42:50 <supay> the video series im learning from says that 2.3.3 is a good min sdk
Dec 24 16:42:50 <regreddit> im getting ready to cut that to 15 though
Dec 24 16:42:52 <supay> ah
Dec 24 16:43:03 <regreddit> thats pretty old
Dec 24 16:43:06 <TacticalJoke> supay:  Generally speaking, you shouldn't be setting it lower than 15.
Dec 24 16:43:09 <supay> im not sure if im using AppCompat or how.. i started learning Android today :/
Dec 24 16:43:11 <TacticalJoke> That just causes you pain.
Dec 24 16:43:14 <supay> oh
Dec 24 16:43:15 <supay> i see
Dec 24 16:43:23 <TacticalJoke> Set it to 15+ unless you have a really good reason.
Dec 24 16:43:32 <regreddit> 15 or > opens up more flexibility,a nd you still support > 6,000 devices
Dec 24 16:43:38 <supay> regreddit: i added -- getSupportActionBar().setIcon(R.drawable.ic_launcher);  -- to the onCreate method in MainActivity.java
Dec 24 16:43:41 <supay> that didn't seem to help
Dec 24 16:44:00 <TacticalJoke> supay:  Set to 15 and then use Holo.  The icon should return.
Dec 24 16:44:01 <regreddit> supay, https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html
Dec 24 16:44:15 <supay> ah, alright
Dec 24 16:44:23 <regreddit> R.drawable.ic_launcher
Dec 24 16:44:26 <TacticalJoke> supay:  Though it's probably best just not to have an icon.  :D
Dec 24 16:44:28 <regreddit> needs to exists
Dec 24 16:44:40 <regreddit> that is a reference to your icon resource
Dec 24 16:44:45 <supay> really? icon looks cool.. haha, i dunno if "without icon" is the best practise now
Dec 24 16:45:00 <regreddit> thats just happens to be what its called in the project i have open right now :)
Dec 24 16:45:02 <TacticalJoke> I think it's recommended now.
Dec 24 16:45:12 <TacticalJoke> Googling, though (because I haven't read the material design stuff very deeply yet.)
Dec 24 16:45:17 <TacticalJoke> ).*
Dec 24 16:45:21 <regreddit> yeah the new design puts a menu there
Dec 24 16:45:22 <supay> hey, 9.1% of devices still run gingerbread
Dec 24 16:45:35 <capella> slackers ;)
Dec 24 16:45:37 <supay> would it really be advisable to make the min sdk = 15?
Dec 24 16:45:39 <supay> capella: lol :D
Dec 24 16:46:19 <TacticalJoke> It's a bad idea to let a dropping 9.1% of users make your development painful.
Dec 24 16:46:45 <supay> regreddit: well, the icon resource does exist.. :/ it still isn't showing
Dec 24 16:46:57 <supay> TacticalJoke: fair enough! :D
Dec 24 16:46:58 <TacticalJoke> It also limits your app.  There's stuff you just can't do (or can't do easily) if you're supporting ancient versions of Android.
Dec 24 16:47:04 <MalekAlrwily> anyone know how to use java in gradle task?
Dec 24 16:47:10 <regreddit> i think i read somewhere theres a reason why there are so many Gingerbread devices atill showing up
Dec 24 16:47:17 <regreddit> its a somewhat misleading number
Dec 24 16:47:29 <regreddit> maybe some embedded device, i cant remember
Dec 24 16:48:00 <regreddit> the chinese chromecasts maybe
Dec 24 16:48:26 <supay> yep, thats so true.. just finished syncing up the project after changing minSDK.. lets see if it works
Dec 24 16:49:01 <supay> still says "Cannot resolve symbol.. Theme.Holo.Light.DarkActionBar"
Dec 24 16:49:16 <regreddit> MalekAlrwily, the Application Plugin
Dec 24 16:49:36 <MalekAlrwily> regreddit: please explain
Dec 24 16:49:50 <regreddit> http://www.gradle.org/docs/current/userguide/application_plugin.html
Dec 24 16:49:56 <MalekAlrwily> thank you
Dec 24 16:50:06 <regreddit> the docs will explain it better than i ever could
Dec 24 16:50:26 <MalekAlrwily> :)
Dec 24 16:50:29 <capella> GB ... "The new XP" :D
Dec 24 16:50:32 <TacticalJoke> supay:  To be sure, try this:  @android:style/Theme.Holo.Light.DarkActionBar
Dec 24 16:50:51 <TacticalJoke> It should be this:  <style name="Whatever" parent="@android:style/Theme.Holo.Light.DarkActionBar">
Dec 24 16:51:05 <TacticalJoke> Where "Whatever" is "AppTheme" or whatever.
Dec 24 16:51:48 <supay> oh, okay
Dec 24 16:51:50 <supay> one moment
Dec 24 16:54:14 <supay> aw great the app is force-closing now :(
Dec 24 16:54:58 <TacticalJoke> What is the stack-trace of the exception?
Dec 24 16:55:03 <TacticalJoke> You'll see it if you open LogCat.
Dec 24 16:55:48 <supay> do i copy paste it here?
Dec 24 16:56:03 <TacticalJoke> You could http://pastebin.com/ it if you want.
Dec 24 16:56:30 <supay> TacticalJoke: ah sure
Dec 24 16:56:34 <supay> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kPH0uUFI
Dec 24 16:57:09 <supay> pastebin happens to be unavailable currently.. 503
Dec 24 16:58:13 <supay> ok
Dec 24 16:58:18 <supay> i guess this line identifies the problem
Dec 24 16:58:20 <supay> ava.lang.IllegalStateException: You need to use a Theme.AppCompat theme (or descendant) with this activity.
Dec 24 16:58:46 <TacticalJoke> Okay.  You're using ActionBarActivity, which requires AppCompat.  You could just change it to Activity.
Dec 24 17:00:00 <supay> so -- public class MainActivity extends Activity {
Dec 24 17:00:03 <regreddit> on API 15+, you don't need appcompat unless you are using ViewPager i think
Dec 24 17:00:03 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 17:00:12 <Mavrik> Well
Dec 24 17:00:20 <Mavrik> You do need AppCompat if you want material design stuff
Dec 24 17:00:22 <regreddit> 15+ has actionbar native
Dec 24 17:00:34 <regreddit> Mavrik, or just the support lib?
Dec 24 17:00:36 <Mavrik> Welcome to 2014 or somethin.
Dec 24 17:01:02 <Mavrik> regreddit, AppCompat has the toolbar and elements with tinting in it
Dec 24 17:01:12 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, it's a question of what supay wants to do.  The obvious recommendation would be to go for material design.
Dec 24 17:01:13 <Mavrik> Also new edittexts etc.
Dec 24 17:01:29 <TacticalJoke> And that means no app icon in the Toolbar/ActionBar.
Dec 24 17:01:32 <TacticalJoke> I think.
Dec 24 17:01:45 <supay> oh, okay.. you're probably right.
Dec 24 17:01:46 <Mavrik> You can of course add icon to toolbar if you want :)
Dec 24 17:01:59 <supay> changing the class to extend Activity causes more errors
Dec 24 17:02:22 <regreddit> ergo, my previous comment "bringing app themes forward in Android is a mess"
Dec 24 17:02:24 <TacticalJoke> Oh.  You might need to use FragmentActivity if you're using support fragments.
Dec 24 17:02:27 <TacticalJoke> Sorry; forgot.
Dec 24 17:02:30 <supay> for example: getSupportFragmentManager
Dec 24 17:02:30 <supay> oh
Dec 24 17:02:31 <supay> okay
Dec 24 17:02:33 <supay> :D
Dec 24 17:02:41 <TacticalJoke> FragmentActivity and ActionBarActivity are just Activity subclasses.
Dec 24 17:02:47 <TacticalJoke> They provide support stuff such as what you just mentioned.
Dec 24 17:03:20 <supay> omggg
Dec 24 17:03:22 <supay> it worked!
Dec 24 17:03:29 <supay> thanks TacticalJoke and regreddit <3
Dec 24 17:03:40 <supay> you guys were really patient with me.. haha :)
Dec 24 17:03:41 <TacticalJoke> supay:  It's probably best to use the AppCompat thing, though, honestly.
Dec 24 17:03:45 <TacticalJoke> Your app will look more modern.
Dec 24 17:03:55 <supay> ah, alright.. i'll do that!
Dec 24 17:03:57 <TacticalJoke> And more "with it".
Dec 24 17:04:04 <supay> thats the current design standard huh?
Dec 24 17:04:09 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 17:04:13 <TacticalJoke> It's called material design.
Dec 24 17:04:38 <supay> introduced with Lollipop?
Dec 24 17:04:46 <TacticalJoke> Here's an overview: https://developer.android.com/design/material/index.html
Dec 24 17:04:47 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 17:05:07 <TacticalJoke> AppCompat makes some aspects available to older versions.
Dec 24 17:05:12 <supay> great! will read through
Dec 24 17:05:14 <supay> ah, i see..
Dec 24 17:05:35 <supay> older as in prior to Kitkat? like 2.3.3 ?
Dec 24 17:06:19 <MartialLaw> Hey I'm building a camera part to my app. Does anyone know where I can get camera function  icons/images? Like flash, flip camera, record etc?
Dec 24 17:06:43 <MartialLaw> I mean like an icon pack for consistency
Dec 24 17:06:55 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, it works all the way down to API 7, I think.
Dec 24 17:06:58 <TacticalJoke> support-v7
Dec 24 17:07:12 <supay> oh, nice!
Dec 24 17:07:15 <TacticalJoke> supay:  Though it's probably best to target 15 and above.
Dec 24 17:07:25 <supay> yep, im going to stick to that advice
Dec 24 17:07:27 <TacticalJoke> Your app is limited if it has to support 2.3.3.
Dec 24 17:07:37 <supay> i dont want to have a headache while making my app compatible for gingerbread
Dec 24 17:07:53 <TacticalJoke> It's kinda sad in a way -- some people are probably stuck on old devices and can't afford to upgrade.
Dec 24 17:08:04 <supay> yep..
Dec 24 17:08:19 <TacticalJoke> But it's sad for developers to have to support that version of Android.  :D
Dec 24 17:08:36 <TacticalJoke> If someone already has an app supporting it, fair enough.  But to start now and support Gingerbread doesn't seem wise (in general).
Dec 24 17:09:40 <supay> its extremely sad for Android devs.. so many screen sizes.
Dec 24 17:09:46 <supay> and now, different shaped screens too
Dec 24 17:09:46 <supay> lol
Dec 24 17:09:53 <Mavrik> O.o
Dec 24 17:09:55 <supay> im intimidated by how much i have to learn right now
Dec 24 17:10:05 <Mavrik> What's so hard about that?
Dec 24 17:10:12 <Mavrik> People developed for different screens for 40 years
Dec 24 17:10:21 <supay> web apps? :)
Dec 24 17:10:22 <TacticalJoke> There is so much to learn with Android.
Dec 24 17:10:27 <TacticalJoke> Just take it one tiny step at a time.
Dec 24 17:10:28 <Mavrik> Only Apple culture is the one that turns developers into morons who can't handle different UI sizes
Dec 24 17:10:32 <TacticalJoke> That's all we humans can tolerate.
Dec 24 17:10:48 <supay> yep, i'll do that. thanks for all the help and advice TacticalJoke :)
Dec 24 17:10:55 <TacticalJoke> No worries.
Dec 24 17:11:05 <supay> Mavrik: haha, so true :)
Dec 24 17:12:38 <TacticalJoke> supay:  How many Android devices do you have?  Just curious.
Dec 24 17:13:09 <supay> TacticalJoke: i currently have 3 - a Galaxy Apollo, Galaxy Note and Xperia Z2
Dec 24 17:14:29 <supay> TacticalJoke: what about you?
Dec 24 17:16:16 <TacticalJoke> I have a Sony Xperia U, a Sony Xperia M, and a Tesco Hudl 2.
Dec 24 17:16:47 <TacticalJoke> The last is a tablet.
Dec 24 17:17:12 <supay> yeah, first time i've heard of it.. had to Google! :D
Dec 24 17:17:39 <TacticalJoke> It's a UK thing.  :)
Dec 24 17:17:50 <TacticalJoke> It's about the best deal you can get on an Android tablet over here.
Dec 24 17:18:14 <supay> yeah.. its pretty low cost
Dec 24 17:18:32 <supay> nice :)
Dec 24 17:23:54 <btnClickMe> for layout_height is there  a value that sets it to 80% of the screen?
Dec 24 17:25:33 * jiraffe clicks btn
Dec 24 17:26:54 <btnClickMe> A random person dies
Dec 24 17:27:50 <jiraffe> lol
Dec 24 17:27:52 <jiraffe> noooooo
Dec 24 17:27:57 * jiraffe unclicks
Dec 24 17:28:17 <TacticalJoke> btnClickMe:  As far as I know, the only way to do that is using layout_weight in a LinearLayout.
Dec 24 17:28:28 <TacticalJoke> You could use 0.20 and 0.80 or 20 and 80.
Dec 24 17:29:02 <TacticalJoke> Though I'm no layout expert, so someone might know of another way.
Dec 24 17:30:43 <supay> jiraffe: Another random person dies
Dec 24 17:31:28 <btnClickMe> hmmmmm
Dec 24 17:31:54 <TacticalJoke> On subsequent clicks, the victim is no longer chosen at random.  ;D
Dec 24 17:32:22 <TacticalJoke> btnClickMe:  What is your use case?
Dec 24 17:32:23 <jiraffe> ;_;
Dec 24 17:32:39 * jiraffe destroys btn
Dec 24 17:32:47 <jiraffe> *world explodes*
Dec 24 17:32:48 <jiraffe> uh
Dec 24 17:33:16 <btnClickMe> I want a website to take up about 80% of the screen. I will have a button at the bottom that passes the URL to anotheractivity
Dec 24 17:33:25 * supay nips out of #android-dev "Earth has been destroyed"
Dec 24 17:33:37 <TacticalJoke> Okay.  A LinearLayout with layout_weight sounds ideal for that.
Dec 24 17:33:55 <TacticalJoke> Alternatively, you could set the button's height in dp and allow the WebView to take the remaining space.
Dec 24 17:34:27 <TacticalJoke> I'd do the second, personally.
Dec 24 17:35:21 <btnClickMe> that would probably work better. Thanks ill try it now
Dec 24 17:37:29 <jiraffe> hehe
Dec 24 17:37:59 <bhargavg> Hi, in OkHttp, when I'm trying to read server response in "onResponse" callback using "response.body().toString()", I'm getting something like this "com.squareup.okhttp.Call$RealResponseBody@41fa4d08"
Dec 24 17:38:16 <TacticalJoke> bhargavg:  Try response.body().string().
Dec 24 17:39:29 <bhargavg> TacticalJoke: ah man...! its working
Dec 24 17:39:47 <bhargavg> thanks :)
Dec 24 17:39:49 <TacticalJoke> Note that it's often better to use something like ResponseBody.charStream if you can, since ResponseBody.string loads the entire thing into memory at once.
Dec 24 17:39:57 <TacticalJoke> Though you might not be able to use the stream versions.
Dec 24 17:39:59 <TacticalJoke> version*
Dec 24 17:40:28 <bhargavg> actually the server returns a small json, so dumping the whole thing into memory wont be an issue i guess
Dec 24 17:40:35 <TacticalJoke> Are you using Gson to parse it?
Dec 24 17:41:07 <bhargavg> no, i'm parsing manually, using JSONObject
Dec 24 17:41:39 <JakeWharton> :(
Dec 24 17:42:55 <TacticalJoke> I can't see a way to give JSONObject a Reader.  Hmm.
Dec 24 17:43:14 <JakeWharton> you should give JSONObject the finger
Dec 24 17:43:17 <JakeWharton> not a Reader
Dec 24 17:43:31 <bhargavg> he he
Dec 24 17:44:25 <TacticalJoke> If performance matters, switching to Gson might be better.  If not, I guess either way works.
Dec 24 17:44:27 <TacticalJoke> Though I just like Gson.
Dec 24 17:44:40 <TacticalJoke> So I'd use it regardless.  :)
Dec 24 17:45:09 <bhargavg> ya, will definitely consider that :)
Dec 24 17:45:23 <supay> Im noticing that every time my app force-closes, the phone disconnects.. anybody faced this before?
Dec 24 17:45:36 <TacticalJoke> With Gson, you can say (something like) "new JsonParser().parse(resonse.body.charStream);", and it won't load the entire string into memory at once.
Dec 24 17:45:42 <TacticalJoke> () ^
Dec 24 17:45:53 <TacticalJoke> supay:  Disconnects from what?
Dec 24 17:46:06 <JakeWharton> you can also say gson.fromJson(stream, Foo.class) and get a Foo instance
Dec 24 17:46:07 <supay> from AS.. i guess..
Dec 24 17:46:15 <JakeWharton> stop parsing JSON yourself!
Dec 24 17:46:23 <JakeWharton> you are not computer
Dec 24 17:46:40 <supay> The app force-closes and then it doesn't show as a "running device" in AS anymore
Dec 24 17:46:45 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  I think it's more flexible in my case to parse things myself (because Reddit gives so much nonsense that I don't need).
Dec 24 17:46:49 <TacticalJoke> But I'm still considering doing that.
Dec 24 17:47:02 <JakeWharton> you can just omit those fields from the object and they'll be skipped
Dec 24 17:47:05 <TacticalJoke> Oh, true.
Dec 24 17:47:17 <bhargavg> TacticalJoke: you can use annotations for skipping fields in GSON I guess
Dec 24 17:49:15 <DrDroid> Hi All, I'm tring to setup Cordova onto my Ubuntu 14.04lts 64bit box but I'm getting 'ANDROID_HOME is not set and "android" command not in your PATH. You must fulfill at least one of these conditions.' I can pastebin my .bashrc to anyone who can help.
Dec 24 17:49:28 <TacticalJoke> To be honest, I'm considering eventually using JSON streaming for pure speed.
Dec 24 17:49:31 <TacticalJoke> But it's probably not worth it.
Dec 24 17:49:35 <TacticalJoke> Since things are so fast already.
Dec 24 17:49:43 <TacticalJoke> (And all parsing is in a worker thread anyway.)
Dec 24 17:49:47 <supay> MartialLaw: you're looking for a icon kit.. you can get PSD's with the icons you need for your app on some sites.. or just look for images from an opensource camera app?
Dec 24 17:50:01 <supay> i mean, the resource files of an opensource camera app
Dec 24 17:50:34 <JakeWharton> you can use object mapping with streaming
Dec 24 17:50:47 <TacticalJoke> That's true.
Dec 24 17:50:59 <JakeWharton> you get zero speed increase by doing it yourself because the deserialization is amortized over the cost of the network transfer
Dec 24 17:51:06 <JakeWharton> Gson is 100x faster than the socket
Dec 24 17:51:34 <bhargavg> DrDroid: you can just add "export ANDROID_HOME=/your/android/sdk/path/here" to your bashrc
Dec 24 17:53:40 <DrDroid> bhargavg have done that but still getting error. I've got pastebin link.
Dec 24 17:53:54 <regreddit> DrDroid, you DO have the android sdk installed, right?
Dec 24 17:54:20 <DrDroid> regreddit your funny.
Dec 24 17:54:29 <regreddit> I'm not trying to be
Dec 24 17:54:49 <DrDroid> I know, yes I have :-)
Dec 24 17:55:04 <HunterD> Hi! I follow the sources form a simple example native app. It has inside Application.mk APP_STL         := stlport_static     and in one of the source files: #include <list>.     My question is where does 'list' come from? where is it implemented?
Dec 24 17:55:08 <regreddit> have you sourced your bashrc after editing it?
Dec 24 17:55:15 <regreddit> or run it?
Dec 24 17:57:21 <regreddit> also, i'd put that in .bash_profile
Dec 24 17:57:41 <DrDroid> No but I have logged out and rebooted.
Dec 24 17:57:44 <regreddit> bashrc runs on interactive shells
Dec 24 17:58:01 <regreddit> .bash_profile will set your PATH and ANDROID_HOME on login
Dec 24 17:58:08 <DrDroid> can you give me the command please.
Dec 24 17:58:22 <HevvyMetal> sup ppls
Dec 24 17:58:27 <regreddit> well, edit ~/.bash_profile in your favorite editor
Dec 24 17:58:59 <regreddit> there are probably some examples already in there that you can copy
Dec 24 17:59:17 <DrDroid> ok let me try.
Dec 24 17:59:27 <regreddit> but to set an env var you put 'export ANDROID_HOME=/path/to/your/sdk
Dec 24 18:00:02 <regreddit> and then start a terminal, and run 'source ~/.bash_profile'
Dec 24 18:00:06 <HevvyMetal> is that the jason bourne again shell?
Dec 24 18:00:18 * HevvyMetal bashes linux
Dec 24 18:00:28 <HevvyMetal> bash bash bash
Dec 24 18:00:45 * regreddit has been windows free since 2008
Dec 24 18:01:00 * HevvyMetal has been *nix free since 1980
Dec 24 18:01:05 <HevvyMetal> that shit is ancient
Dec 24 18:01:09 <HevvyMetal> and gives me flashbacks
Dec 24 18:02:00 <HevvyMetal> it really is
Dec 24 18:02:31 <HevvyMetal> but if you like it that's cool
Dec 24 18:02:42 <Mavrik> HunterD, um, it's part of C++ STL
Dec 24 18:02:45 <gordon_> do you know any phone with mips processor ?
Dec 24 18:02:58 <HevvyMetal> wasn't ARM originally a MIPS processor?
Dec 24 18:03:00 <gordon_> HevvyMetal: zsh
Dec 24 18:03:05 <gordon_> dont know
Dec 24 18:03:08 <HunterD> Mavrik: found it
Dec 24 18:03:16 <HevvyMetal> I don't think MIPS makes hardware anymore
Dec 24 18:03:22 <HevvyMetal> my favorite was tcsh
Dec 24 18:03:25 <regreddit> Que Sera Sera
Dec 24 18:03:27 <gordon_> just want to know why people compile cpp for arm, armv7, x86 and mips
Dec 24 18:03:35 <Mavrik> HunterD, see "sources/cxx-stl/strlport" for that source
Dec 24 18:03:41 <btnClickMe> Im trying to pass a string to a method on button click. I have this but app just crashes (URL is all caps distinguishing it from the webbiew LoadUrl : android:onClick="loadURL('http:\\www.google.com')"
Dec 24 18:03:56 <gordon_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25052234/statistics-about-android-devices-with-mips-processors
Dec 24 18:03:59 <gordon_> ok
Dec 24 18:04:01 <gordon_> no need to support ;)
Dec 24 18:04:08 <HevvyMetal> when they say mips that's an older risc chip but it's different from ARM
Dec 24 18:04:17 <HevvyMetal> armv7 has more instructions than the original ARM
Dec 24 18:04:32 <HevvyMetal> i'm not really sure if ARM is RISC or CISC
Dec 24 18:04:36 <Mavrik> gordon_, as far as I know there are no MIPS phones on the market
Dec 24 18:04:38 <HevvyMetal> never really looked into it very much
Dec 24 18:04:42 <Mavrik> gordon_, (I don't know china situation though)
Dec 24 18:04:53 <Mavrik> gordon_, MIPS is mostly used for internal embedded devices running Android
Dec 24 18:04:56 <gordon_> ok, thank you
Dec 24 18:05:07 <gordon_> just dont want to compile for it ;)
Dec 24 18:05:12 <Mavrik> yeah, no need :)
Dec 24 18:05:26 <Mavrik> armv7, arm64, x86 and x86-64 is enough for these times :)
Dec 24 18:05:27 <gordon_> but now there's aarm64
Dec 24 18:05:30 <gordon_> I mean nexus 9
Dec 24 18:05:45 <gordon_> no need for arm v6 ?
Dec 24 18:05:50 <gordon_> like zte blade
Dec 24 18:05:58 <HevvyMetal> whatever happened to that processor that linus torvalds was working on
Dec 24 18:06:03 <HevvyMetal> low power x86
Dec 24 18:06:11 <HevvyMetal> transmeta
Dec 24 18:06:33 <gordon_> dont know about it
Dec 24 18:06:45 <HevvyMetal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmeta
Dec 24 18:06:50 <HevvyMetal> it was supposed to be the holy grail
Dec 24 18:06:54 <HevvyMetal> lower power consumption and x86
Dec 24 18:07:04 <HevvyMetal> and then it just navor materialized in the marketplace for some reason
Dec 24 18:07:12 <Mavrik> gordon_, there's no armv6 target
Dec 24 18:07:27 <gordon_> ah ok
Dec 24 18:07:28 <gordon_> thanks !
Dec 24 18:07:40 <Mavrik> gordon_, note that armv6 and armv7 chips can run armv5 code
Dec 24 18:07:53 <Mavrik> so if it's not performance critical, you can just compile for arm instead of armv7 and you cover those
Dec 24 18:08:06 <regreddit> acquired by a vc ip company that then imploded
Dec 24 18:08:09 <Mavrik> but there's really no ICS+ devices with < ARMv7 so that's kinda wasted effort
Dec 24 18:08:38 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, you just need a nation-state type of money to compete with Intel on their turf
Dec 24 18:08:53 <gordon_> Mavrik: are you using cpp quite often ?
Dec 24 18:09:33 <gordon_> Mavrik: can arm64 run armv7 code ?
Dec 24 18:09:51 <regreddit> My old company Intergraph sued Intel and won over L2 cache patents from the Clipper Chip
Dec 24 18:09:53 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  Just curious -- does Gson's object mapper do the same thing as I'm doing (building up the entire DOM tree) under the hood, before finally instantiating the right classes and giving them the right values?
Dec 24 18:09:57 <regreddit> just under 1bn
Dec 24 18:10:08 <TacticalJoke> I did try to figure this out from the code before, but it was hard to see.
Dec 24 18:10:11 <HevvyMetal> well maybe mavrik but intel got their asses handed to them by the ARM
Dec 24 18:10:18 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: not the entire thing
Dec 24 18:10:31 <HevvyMetal> regreddit wow intergraph got $1b? what ever happened to intergraph?
Dec 24 18:10:36 <HevvyMetal> that's more than they ever made as a company
Dec 24 18:10:44 <regreddit> still around
Dec 24 18:10:48 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: it'll instantiate the leaf instances and work it's way upward
Dec 24 18:10:59 <regreddit> out of the hardware business since 2003
Dec 24 18:11:01 <Mavrik> gordon_, um, I don't think the 64s are armv7 compatible
Dec 24 18:11:02 <HevvyMetal> stil making cad workstations regreddit? what do they do?
Dec 24 18:11:16 <HevvyMetal> when did you work there early 90s regreddit ?
Dec 24 18:11:25 <Mavrik> gordon_, the 64-bit ARMv8 arch is so much more efficient you should make a build for 64 anyway
Dec 24 18:11:28 <regreddit> HevvyMetal, late 90's early 2000's
Dec 24 18:11:42 <regreddit> was there when we exited the hardware business
Dec 24 18:11:57 <regreddit> the last product we shipped was the wildcat graphics card
Dec 24 18:12:00 <regreddit> sold all that off
Dec 24 18:12:08 <gordon_> ok
Dec 24 18:12:13 <regreddit> they now just do software
Dec 24 18:12:17 <gordon_> I just need image manipulation ;)
Dec 24 18:12:53 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, hmm, well if "still having 100x the revenue while catching up" is having their asses handed to them :)
Dec 24 18:13:00 <Mavrik> Intel is huge.
Dec 24 18:13:22 <HevvyMetal> intel may be huge mavrik but they completely are non players in the mobile space
Dec 24 18:13:31 <HevvyMetal> it's all about qualcomm and samsung
Dec 24 18:13:41 <HevvyMetal> intel certainly dropped the ball on not having a mobile processor
Dec 24 18:13:46 <HevvyMetal> but sure they still are huge
Dec 24 18:13:50 <Mavrik> Mhm,
Dec 24 18:13:55 <HevvyMetal> but they missed the ball pretty hard on that
Dec 24 18:14:07 <HevvyMetal> you would think they would have seen mobile coming more
Dec 24 18:14:23 <HevvyMetal> there answer was the atom and that never really got any uptake certainly no phones run it
Dec 24 18:16:26 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  Hmm.  Do you think there's any chance that building up the DOM model could entail more memory use (and therefore more garbage collection) than object mapping?
Dec 24 18:16:29 <TacticalJoke> Or must it be the same?
Dec 24 18:17:06 <JakeWharton> depends on the data
Dec 24 18:18:25 <RustyShackleford> why doesn't android have a default dialer?
Dec 24 18:18:38 <regreddit> intel has been doing a ton of network processor stuff lately, unde the radar
Dec 24 18:18:41 <TacticalJoke> One thing I notice is that I occasionally get a GC message in LogCat when downloading a reddit listing.  And if I'm not mistaken collections pause all threads.
Dec 24 18:18:50 <regreddit> 40G, and storage processors
Dec 24 18:20:19 <regreddit> RustyShackleford, isnt that the whole purpose of Intents?
Dec 24 18:20:41 <regreddit> let the vendor supply the dialer, and just reuire an Intent interface?
Dec 24 18:20:59 <regreddit> since dialers are talking to radios and whatnot?
Dec 24 18:21:06 <Mavrik> TacticalJoke, only alloc collections pause all threads
Dec 24 18:21:15 <Mavrik> TacticalJoke, concurrent don't. Use a profiler ffs :P
Dec 24 18:21:41 <Mavrik> RustyShackleford, um, Android has a default dialer. The one bundled in AOSP.
Dec 24 18:22:10 <TacticalJoke> Mavrik:  Sorry, not sure what you mean.  Alloc = allocation?
Dec 24 18:22:28 <Mavrik> TacticalJoke, yes. It says GC_FOR_ALLOC pass instead of GC_CONCURRENT
Dec 24 18:22:42 <Mavrik> it does that when you run out of heap space and has to increase the heap size
Dec 24 18:22:48 <Mavrik> in last-ditch effort to prevent it
Dec 24 18:22:53 <Mavrik> also fucking up all performance :P
Dec 24 18:23:14 <TacticalJoke> Okay, I get GC_FOR_ALLOC sometimes when downloading reddit listings.
Dec 24 18:23:32 <TacticalJoke> Here's one I just got: "GC_FOR_ALLOC freed 5557K, 38% free 10680K/17027K, paused 75ms, total 75ms".
Dec 24 18:23:37 <HevvyMetal> RustyShackleford android DOES have a default dialer
Dec 24 18:23:48 <HevvyMetal> what mkes you think that it doesnt?
Dec 24 18:23:55 <Mavrik> TacticalJoke, yep, those are stop-the-world, GC_CONCURRENT aren't.
Dec 24 18:24:01 <TacticalJoke> I see.
Dec 24 18:24:10 <Mavrik> Or more correctly, GC_CONCURRENT are way shorter for all threads
Dec 24 18:24:20 <Mavrik> usually just 1-2ms which is not noticable
Dec 24 18:24:39 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 18:24:43 <HevvyMetal> i'm pretty sure gc is per process and not per system
Dec 24 18:24:51 <HevvyMetal> each app runs in it's own process afaik
Dec 24 18:24:53 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, of course :)
Dec 24 18:25:25 <HevvyMetal> 75 ms is  a long time i guess
Dec 24 18:25:32 <Mavrik> 16ms is a single frame
Dec 24 18:25:42 <HevvyMetal> single frame of what? video?
Dec 24 18:25:42 <Mavrik> which means you miss 5 frames of animation in that time
Dec 24 18:25:51 <JakeWharton> single frame of the UI
Dec 24 18:25:54 <Mavrik> which is very noticable when app does anything
Dec 24 18:25:55 <HevvyMetal> yeah someting like taht
Dec 24 18:26:05 <HevvyMetal> i said 75 ms is a long time
Dec 24 18:26:09 <HevvyMetal> ;)
Dec 24 18:26:10 <Mavrik> UI is V-synced to 60fps
Dec 24 18:26:13 <Mavrik> mhm :)
Dec 24 18:26:17 <TacticalJoke> As far as I know, there is nothing I can do about this.
Dec 24 18:26:27 <TacticalJoke> Unless object mapping entails less GC overhead.
Dec 24 18:26:38 <HevvyMetal> you can try to force gc periodically
Dec 24 18:26:41 <Mavrik> TacticalJoke, as long as your app doesn't stutter when doing that, it's ok
Dec 24 18:26:46 <HevvyMetal> object mapping is notnecessarily low overhead
Dec 24 18:26:49 <TacticalJoke> I don't see any stutter at all.
Dec 24 18:26:58 <Mavrik> TacticalJoke, just make sure those passes won't happen while user is scrolling or doing anything other animation related that would result in yank
Dec 24 18:26:59 <TacticalJoke> My progress bar is fine all the way to the end.
Dec 24 18:27:04 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 18:27:06 <Mavrik> then don't bother, GC is just fine to run from time to time :)
Dec 24 18:27:14 <TacticalJoke> Okay, thanks.
Dec 24 18:27:32 <TacticalJoke> I notice that Google Keep produces those warnings like crazy.
Dec 24 18:27:34 <HevvyMetal> a lot of the json style hashmap stuff creates a lot of garbage especially with strings
Dec 24 18:27:39 <TacticalJoke> When opening activities sometimes.
Dec 24 18:27:43 <HevvyMetal> what's google keep?
Dec 24 18:27:49 <TacticalJoke> Google's simple to-do-list app.
Dec 24 18:27:58 <HevvyMetal> never heard of it
Dec 24 18:28:03 <regreddit> relative noob question: are 'GC_CONCURRENT' bad?
Dec 24 18:28:05 <TacticalJoke> It's a year or so old.
Dec 24 18:28:12 <TacticalJoke> I think.
Dec 24 18:28:14 <HevvyMetal> at what point will the OS kill off other processes instead of GC?
Dec 24 18:28:20 <regreddit> or 'GC_FOR_ALLOC'
Dec 24 18:28:27 <JakeWharton> regreddit: no
Dec 24 18:28:29 <Mavrik> regreddit, the concurrent collections are usually not a problem
Dec 24 18:28:38 <Mavrik> the alloc ones can cause yank if there's too much of them
Dec 24 18:28:42 <JakeWharton> those GCs are good
Dec 24 18:28:47 <TacticalJoke> Why is it that the concurrent ones don't stop the world but the alloc ones do stop the world?
Dec 24 18:28:59 <JakeWharton> because concurrent doesn't need to allocate
Dec 24 18:29:03 <regreddit> my app loads a very large (300k) json object that it converts to a linkedhashmap, and i get quite a few during that process when my app is starting
Dec 24 18:29:14 <JakeWharton> you are requesting an allocation that the heap can't satisfy
Dec 24 18:29:19 <Mavrik> regreddit, fire up the traceview profiler and profile it
Dec 24 18:29:21 <TacticalJoke> Okay.
Dec 24 18:29:34 <Mavrik> regreddit, take close look at main thread and see what's going on there
Dec 24 18:30:20 <Mavrik> I just wish I could tell "give me bunch of heap at start and never return it to OS" to the VM
Dec 24 18:30:24 <Mavrik> just like desktop java does :/
Dec 24 18:30:39 <HevvyMetal> you cuold do that mavrik
Dec 24 18:30:49 <HevvyMetal> just do a bunch of huge allocs at the start of the app
Dec 24 18:30:59 <HevvyMetal> during the splash screen
Dec 24 18:31:08 <HevvyMetal> and that will hopefully make the os kill off background apps
Dec 24 18:31:12 <Mavrik> That doesn't work, because VM immediately collects those and returns memory to OS
Dec 24 18:31:31 <Mavrik> The solution was to move bitmap caching and loading stuff to native heap / C++
Dec 24 18:31:35 <Mavrik> which sucks arse.
Dec 24 18:31:46 <regreddit> Mavrik, and sort by invocation count?
Dec 24 18:31:59 <regreddit> is that what Im looking for, high invocations of something?
Dec 24 18:32:03 <Mavrik> regreddit, no, look at the thread graph
Dec 24 18:32:06 <Mavrik> regreddit, main thread
Dec 24 18:32:16 <HevvyMetal> if you kept references to teh bitmaps they wouldn't get gc'd no? not sure what you are tryin to do
Dec 24 18:32:30 <Mavrik> regreddit, a smoothly running app has a graph that has a nice 16ms rhythm of draws when it does something and that thread parked when it idles
Dec 24 18:32:35 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  Reddit News is giving me a whole load of GC_CONCURRENT messages but no GC_FOR_ALLOC ones.  I wonder what it's doing differently.
Dec 24 18:32:52 <Mavrik> regreddit, any "blocks" of calls on main thread will result in stuttering of UI
Dec 24 18:33:03 <regreddit> i see
Dec 24 18:33:16 <TacticalJoke> It pauses for like 500ms for each comment listing.
Dec 24 18:33:17 <TacticalJoke> Huge time.
Dec 24 18:33:20 <TacticalJoke> But it's all GC_CONCURRENT.
Dec 24 18:33:22 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, allocating / loading large bitmaps as user scrolls through images and keeping them around in memory cache
Dec 24 18:33:29 <regreddit> well, i have a progress meter up during this time anyway, so im not positive that's an issue
Dec 24 18:33:44 <regreddit> it has to block until that linkedhashmap is loaded up
Dec 24 18:33:45 <HevvyMetal> mavrik why dont you use picasso and let jakewharton handel that?
Dec 24 18:34:01 <HevvyMetal> why are you doing all that yourself mavrik? sounds like reinventing what UIL and picasso do
Dec 24 18:35:10 <Mavrik> regreddit, this is how it looks like when GC stops main thread for allocation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zsp67i50swo0yh/Screenshot%202014-12-18%2018.43.46.png?dl=0
Dec 24 18:35:32 <Mavrik> regreddit, note the smooth 60fps scrolling to the right of the event where draw calls have small pauses between them, meaning that rendering is done in less than 16ms
Dec 24 18:35:43 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, because picasso is shit for my usecase :)
Dec 24 18:36:07 <Mavrik> since I'm not downloading images from internet and have to be faster than what they do
Dec 24 18:36:09 <Mavrik> :)
Dec 24 18:36:13 <regreddit> i see
Dec 24 18:36:17 <TacticalJoke> Who, the Reddit client I usually use shows GC_FOR_ALLOC messages with pauses of 150ms+.
Dec 24 18:36:25 <TacticalJoke> Whoa*
Dec 24 18:36:25 <HevvyMetal> what makes it shit for yoru use case mavrik? maybe JakeWharton can help
Dec 24 18:36:28 <HevvyMetal> or you can try UIL
Dec 24 18:36:36 <HevvyMetal> i'm pretty sure both can handle local images
Dec 24 18:37:00 <HevvyMetal> i think there is a way of recycling views when you scroll a listview but i'm not too familiar with that or if there is a component that does that already
Dec 24 18:37:13 <JakeWharton> that happens automatically
Dec 24 18:37:20 <regreddit> all my gc_concurrent are 3-4 ms
Dec 24 18:37:33 <regreddit> and gc_foralloc < 40ms
Dec 24 18:37:40 <drinfernoo> TacticalJoke, any experience with Transitions yet?
Dec 24 18:37:44 <HevvyMetal> isn't there something manually that can be done to help in that case? some client was quizzing me on it but I haven't dealt with 10,000 long lists JakeWharton
Dec 24 18:37:54 <TacticalJoke> How do you mean, drinfernoo?
Dec 24 18:37:59 <supay> HevvyMetal: it happens automatically with listview
Dec 24 18:38:00 <HevvyMetal> or preventing them from being recycled and just reuse them isntead
Dec 24 18:38:05 <supay> oh wait. JakeWharton already replied. sorry
Dec 24 18:38:11 <TacticalJoke> HevvyMetal:  They give you a recycled view.  You only have to use it.
Dec 24 18:38:23 <HevvyMetal> ok well the client was seeming to indicate that there was some way to optimize it
Dec 24 18:38:27 <TacticalJoke> "They" = "ListView".
Dec 24 18:38:32 <HevvyMetal> but i think clients ask lots of dumb things so not sure
Dec 24 18:38:39 <HevvyMetal> never got into the 10,000 long listview stuff
Dec 24 18:38:43 <TacticalJoke> Noobs don't use the recycled view and recreate it every time.
Dec 24 18:38:47 <HevvyMetal> is there a more efficient listview than listviews?
Dec 24 18:38:53 <drinfernoo> im trying to figure out a conflict im having between setEnterTransition(...) and setSharedElementEnterTransition(...)
Dec 24 18:38:56 <Mavrik> yeah, RecyclerView is better
Dec 24 18:38:59 <supay> HevvyMetal: ListView checks the number of elements that can be displayed on its parent view.. and has 2 extra, one top and one bottom to prevent jittering
Dec 24 18:39:04 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, we use our own custom reimplementation that's even faster
Dec 24 18:39:04 <JakeWharton> better seems too strong
Dec 24 18:39:08 <TacticalJoke> drinfernoo:  Oh.  I still have no idea.  lol
Dec 24 18:39:09 <supay> i just read about it on this Android course! :D
Dec 24 18:39:16 <JakeWharton> recyclerview has a bunch of abstractions which make it worse for simple patterns
Dec 24 18:39:21 <Mavrik> JakeWharton, sorry, "performance wise if you make sure you don't do anything stupid" :P
Dec 24 18:39:22 <drinfernoo> wasnt sure if you were here when i asked before lol
Dec 24 18:39:28 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.  :)
Dec 24 18:39:38 <Mavrik> since it does less magicky stuff in the background without asking you
Dec 24 18:39:45 <HevvyMetal> so what do you have to do to use the recycled view versus recreate it each time drinfernoo ? doesn't listview do that automatically? not sure what you mean by "noobs"?
Dec 24 18:39:48 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  Do you think it's worth my trying object mapping just to avoid GC overhead?  Or do you think it won't make a difference, really.
Dec 24 18:39:58 <JakeWharton> i think that's a post-1.0 concern
Dec 24 18:39:58 <TacticalJoke> I'm kinda weirded out that Reddit News isn't getting GC_FOR_ALLOC stuff.
Dec 24 18:40:02 <HevvyMetal> is your custom remplemnetation faster mavrick? what did you do compared to the factory stuff ?
Dec 24 18:40:12 <TacticalJoke> Okay.  haha
Dec 24 18:40:19 <JakeWharton> features first, performance second
Dec 24 18:40:20 <JakeWharton> always
Dec 24 18:40:23 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 18:40:24 <drinfernoo> HevvyMetal, i think it was supay?
Dec 24 18:40:51 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, nothing except that it's custom view that renders and lays out only exactly what's needed and when it's needed
Dec 24 18:40:54 <supay> i didn't say "noobs" anywhere.. i guess
Dec 24 18:40:57 <Mavrik> it's build for the exact use case and nothing else
Dec 24 18:41:10 <HevvyMetal> sure mavrik and what specifically
Dec 24 18:41:35 <HevvyMetal> ok well i just dont see how that's any different but maybe it's an english thing
Dec 24 18:41:40 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, what do you mean - what I said. It's recycling views without the whole caching / rebinding / viewholder stage
Dec 24 18:42:13 <HevvyMetal> ok
Dec 24 18:42:17 <Mavrik> it operates directly on view objects and adjust number of them according to memory pressure and can smoothly start / cancel image loads/renders as it recycles them at the right moment
Dec 24 18:42:30 <Mavrik> it also has to do some other dumb stuff with touches that were pain in the ass in listview
Dec 24 18:42:41 <HevvyMetal> well put it on git then :)
Dec 24 18:42:44 <HevvyMetal> sounds useful
Dec 24 18:43:02 <HevvyMetal> bbiab
Dec 24 18:46:10 <TacticalJoke> GC_EXPLICIT would be stop-the-world, right?
Dec 24 18:47:36 <Mavrik> actually, I don't know, don't use explicit collection
Dec 24 18:47:50 <TacticalJoke> K.
Dec 24 18:48:04 <TacticalJoke> Actually, now that I look at it, Reddit News gets a lot of GC_FOR_ALLOC too.
Dec 24 18:48:12 <TacticalJoke> It's just drowned in GC_CONCURRENT.
Dec 24 19:05:02 <supay> anybody on Tsū that can send me an invite? :)
Dec 24 19:15:40 <JakeWharton> does dalvik's jit do inlining?
Dec 24 19:16:25 <JakeWharton> reports are mixed
Dec 24 19:48:01 <cnap_> Guys do you have issues with your emulators?
Dec 24 19:48:15 <cnap_> Mine were working fine, but then I think that Android Studios update broke them ...
Dec 24 19:48:38 <cnap_> I am using a common sdk folder for both eclipse and android studio (AS detected the folder by itself i think)
Dec 24 19:48:47 <cnap_> and i cannot load my AVDs api 19
Dec 24 19:49:04 <liuwenhao> Have you tried Genymotion?
Dec 24 19:50:03 <regreddit> does it mean anything when in the debugger i step and the call will randomly fall off a cliff and never return? is that a sign of some other possible issue?
Dec 24 19:50:09 <regreddit> or just flaky debugger
Dec 24 19:50:58 <cnap_> liuwenhao, no and I am not sure if it can help. I am doing forensics on android and hence I need to load my own custom kernel etc when running the avd
Dec 24 19:51:02 <cnap_> is that possible with genymotion ?
Dec 24 19:52:59 <liuwenhao> Not sure, the free version of Genymotion has pretty limited features.
Dec 24 19:53:15 <cnap_> i see
Dec 24 19:53:21 <regreddit> im not sure you can build your own images in genymotion
Dec 24 19:54:21 <regreddit> i guess you 'could', they are just virtualbox x86_64 android images iirc
Dec 24 19:54:27 <shmooz> google should buy genymotion and include it with AS
Dec 24 19:55:12 <g00s> does genymotion come with play services these days ?
Dec 24 19:55:15 <regreddit> there is an z86_64 android distribution out there
Dec 24 19:55:22 <regreddit> you could run in virtualbox directly
Dec 24 19:55:39 <regreddit> z? x
Dec 24 19:55:49 <regreddit> http://www.android-x86.org/
Dec 24 19:56:09 <regreddit> and you can certainly build your own kernel there
Dec 24 19:56:28 <g00s> i haven't been able to use genymotion since around AS 0.8, something happened around there AS takes so much memory i don't have enough to run geny any more
Dec 24 19:56:49 <cnap_> too messy I dont understand why fucking AVDs stopped working
Dec 24 19:57:14 <regreddit> yeah there are some known issues with Gradle running inside AS that will suck the life out of even a hefty dev machibe
Dec 24 19:57:35 <cnap_> heh
Dec 24 19:57:52 <g00s> before 0.8 or around there, the gradle thing was totally in process - afterwards there was a separate daemon thats sucking another 500mb
Dec 24 19:57:52 <regreddit> putting AS in 'power save mode' helps
Dec 24 19:58:07 <regreddit> restricts gradle to one core among other things
Dec 24 19:58:29 <HevvyMetal> regreddit i'm lookin for a browser that doesnt suck up all aviable ram
Dec 24 19:58:31 <HevvyMetal> any ideas?
Dec 24 19:58:35 <drinfernoo> damn transitions
Dec 24 19:58:36 <HevvyMetal> i've tried just about everything
Dec 24 19:58:36 <drinfernoo> lll
Dec 24 19:58:38 <drinfernoo> o
Dec 24 19:58:51 <g00s> HevvyMetal let me know when you find something :)
Dec 24 19:58:58 <HevvyMetal> it's crazy
Dec 24 19:59:10 <HevvyMetal> even chrome takes up all availble ram how does anyone at google get any work done?
Dec 24 19:59:26 <g00s> they all have perfect wifi and lots of memory
Dec 24 19:59:28 <HevvyMetal> it seems like every browser caches all the bitmaps in ram thinking everyone has a 386 its nuts
Dec 24 19:59:30 <drinfernoo> lollipop ota process is so ridiculous now
Dec 24 19:59:40 <HevvyMetal> it doesnt matter how much memory you have the browsers take it all
Dec 24 19:59:47 <HevvyMetal> i doubt they ahve 64 gb laptops
Dec 24 19:59:57 <HevvyMetal> even with 12-16gb chrome/ff/etc take it all up
Dec 24 19:59:57 <drinfernoo> fails with no given reason if youre rooted
Dec 24 20:00:02 <drinfernoo> it just says "failed"
Dec 24 20:00:21 <HevvyMetal> and HTML5 just as slow and cpu sucking as flash with all the javascript ads now
Dec 24 20:00:34 <HevvyMetal> drinfernoo you hath failed
Dec 24 20:00:49 <drinfernoo> no i did it with fastboot
Dec 24 20:00:59 <HevvyMetal> your update hath failed
Dec 24 20:01:08 <HevvyMetal> speaking of laggy lollipop runs like shit on my nexus 10
Dec 24 20:01:14 <drinfernoo> it just took me a few days to get around to it, with the stupid notification sitting there the whole time
Dec 24 20:01:15 <HevvyMetal> i hate the nexus 10
Dec 24 20:01:22 <HevvyMetal> i took it as partial payment
Dec 24 20:01:25 <HevvyMetal> regret it
Dec 24 20:01:36 <HevvyMetal> everything about it sucks pretty much
Dec 24 20:02:06 <drinfernoo> HevvyMetal, my transitions hath failed
Dec 24 20:02:08 <drinfernoo> lol
Dec 24 20:02:08 <g00s> i wish google kept a check nexus table, $200, like n7
Dec 24 20:02:09 <HevvyMetal> it's heavy, charges slow, only keeps it's charge for a day or two
Dec 24 20:02:17 <g00s> lol, s/check/cheap
Dec 24 20:02:32 <HevvyMetal> the 7 is too small
Dec 24 20:02:38 <HevvyMetal> 9 is probably a good size but i dont hav eone
Dec 24 20:02:41 <g00s> the n9 got meh reviews
Dec 24 20:02:48 <HevvyMetal> i'd' probably get the samsung 8
Dec 24 20:03:02 <HevvyMetal> and why does the n10 STILL not support BT keyboards like apple BT?
Dec 24 20:03:06 <HevvyMetal> it's ridiculous
Dec 24 20:03:10 <HevvyMetal> hello? productivity?
Dec 24 20:03:20 <HevvyMetal> what was meh about the 9 g00s?
Dec 24 20:03:24 <HevvyMetal> at least it's 4:3
Dec 24 20:03:28 <HevvyMetal> has a type cover
Dec 24 20:03:35 <HevvyMetal> no expandability
Dec 24 20:03:37 <g00s> 4:3 is nice, i hated 16:9
Dec 24 20:03:45 <HevvyMetal> it's a total ipad clone
Dec 24 20:03:47 <g00s> HevvyMetal just the reviews i read when it came out
Dec 24 20:04:03 <HevvyMetal> sure but what in particular? most reviews were ok but the type cover wasnt available
Dec 24 20:04:18 <HevvyMetal> how do the online magazines format for 4:3 and 16:9 and print? i'm curious how they do the page layout
Dec 24 20:04:37 <drinfernoo> i just wish nexus devices had sd card slots
Dec 24 20:04:41 <HevvyMetal> i had an n7 and it was nice
Dec 24 20:04:50 <HevvyMetal> right drinfernoo total apple clone
Dec 24 20:04:53 <HevvyMetal> no expandability
Dec 24 20:04:54 <drinfernoo> oh how i would love to slot my n6 with another 256gb lmao
Dec 24 20:05:10 <HevvyMetal> i'd like to find some sdhc that have fast iops
Dec 24 20:05:16 <HevvyMetal> all of them are slow for random read/write
Dec 24 20:05:24 <HevvyMetal> that i've seen
Dec 24 20:05:38 <drinfernoo> yeah thats true
Dec 24 20:05:39 <HevvyMetal> would like to use them as cheap flash for development but too slow for compiles etc
Dec 24 20:05:46 <HevvyMetal> insted of getting SSD
Dec 24 20:06:01 <drinfernoo> oh but ssd is so great
Dec 24 20:06:08 <drinfernoo> totally worth it
Dec 24 20:06:12 <g00s> HevvyMetal the biggest problem i heard with the n9 is that it overheats
Dec 24 20:06:15 <HevvyMetal> ssd isn't all that fast for small files either
Dec 24 20:06:23 <HevvyMetal> but its better than sdhc
Dec 24 20:06:32 <HevvyMetal> i dunno why sdhc is so slow and not faster like ssd
Dec 24 20:07:01 <HevvyMetal> well as long as the battery doesnt explode and burn your dick you're ok g00s
Dec 24 20:07:09 <drinfernoo> i just wish there was more documentation on transitions lol
Dec 24 20:07:19 <drinfernoo> "burn your dick"
Dec 24 20:07:22 <HevvyMetal> what transitions? the lollipop ones drinfernoo ?
Dec 24 20:07:29 <drinfernoo> yeah
Dec 24 20:07:34 <drinfernoo> well the Transition api
Dec 24 20:07:41 <HevvyMetal> are they part of the compatibility library or why worry about it?
Dec 24 20:07:45 <drinfernoo> i mean, theres documentation
Dec 24 20:07:47 <HevvyMetal> noone has lollipop running
Dec 24 20:08:11 <drinfernoo> well theyre not 5.0 specific
Dec 24 20:08:23 <HevvyMetal> so it is in the compat api?
Dec 24 20:08:33 <HevvyMetal> what is new in 5.0 thats in the compat and what's new that isn't?
Dec 24 20:08:36 <drinfernoo> api 19
Dec 24 20:08:53 <drinfernoo> kk right?
Dec 24 20:09:17 <drinfernoo> i can never keep track of whats new
Dec 24 20:09:22 <HevvyMetal> 21
Dec 24 20:09:35 <drinfernoo> i knew that, but features i mean
Dec 24 20:09:51 <drinfernoo> im testing on an n6, 5.0.1
Dec 24 20:10:02 <drinfernoo> gonna test on my n5 too
Dec 24 20:10:04 <HevvyMetal> yeah i donno whats new
Dec 24 20:10:11 <HevvyMetal> thats why asking
Dec 24 20:10:21 <HevvyMetal> so everyone off work today/
Dec 24 20:10:38 <drinfernoo> probably gonna multirom so i can test on 4.2/3/4
Dec 24 20:11:23 <HevvyMetal> test wut drinfernoo ?
Dec 24 20:11:31 <drinfernoo> my app
Dec 24 20:12:06 <drinfernoo> long story short, im deving totally in aide
Dec 24 20:14:06 <HevvyMetal> whats aide and whats ur app?
Dec 24 20:14:23 <HevvyMetal> why do you need to test 4.2/3/4? just use one of them
Dec 24 20:14:30 <HevvyMetal> does it really use fringe freatures?
Dec 24 20:14:43 <liquidmetal> i want to learn how/why the android build system is the way it is (not the gradle template for every app, but android itself)
Dec 24 20:14:47 <tnzr> hi guys.. anyone know why android studio 1.0.2/gradle 2.2.1 is looking in the wrong place in jcenter? I'm trying to include okhttp 2.1.0 in my dependencies and when I run 'gradle dependencies', it looks like its looking in the wrong place
Dec 24 20:14:50 <liquidmetal> Where doI even begin?
Dec 24 20:15:00 <drinfernoo> well, i started on 5.0, so im not really sure which things arent going to be compatible
Dec 24 20:15:12 <JakeWharton> tnzr: what does "looking in the wrong place" mean?
Dec 24 20:15:37 <drinfernoo> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui
Dec 24 20:16:00 <drinfernoo> and my app isnt released yet
Dec 24 20:16:01 <HevvyMetal> how do I get gradle to show me which version it loaded if I have a compile xyz1.2+ anyway? I have yet to see that in AS JakeWharton
Dec 24 20:16:13 <HevvyMetal> well how can it not be release if its on the play store?
Dec 24 20:16:21 <drinfernoo> its not
Dec 24 20:16:29 <JakeWharton> AS won't know
Dec 24 20:16:35 <JakeWharton> it only cares about the declaration
Dec 24 20:16:39 <tnzr> JakeWharton: sorry, basically when I manually browse jcenter to find okhttp, its at http://jcenter.bintray.com/com/squareup/okhttp/okhttp/2.1.0/#okhttp-2.1.0.jar  but gradle is looking at https://jcenter.bintray.com/com/squareup/okhttp/2.1.0/okhttp-2.1.0.jar
Dec 24 20:16:47 <goa_> hello
Dec 24 20:16:49 <lasserix> liquid metal what do you mean? how it compiles or how an app works or how the os works or ?
Dec 24 20:16:59 <JakeWharton> tnzr: show me your dependency declaration
Dec 24 20:17:08 <tnzr>     compile 'com.squareup:okhttp:2.1.0'
Dec 24 20:17:12 <JakeWharton> that's wrong
Dec 24 20:17:13 <HevvyMetal> JakeWharton why would it not know? it has to download it at some point so how can you see what version it actually downloaded?
Dec 24 20:17:24 <JakeWharton> HevvyMetal: Gradle downloads it
Dec 24 20:17:37 <HevvyMetal> so if you said okhttp:2.+ then how can you find out which version gradle downloaded JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 20:17:43 <JakeWharton> you can see the concrete version that gets linked in AS in the "External dependencies" thingy at the bottom of the project view
Dec 24 20:17:49 <JakeWharton> other than that, run 'dependencies' on the command line
Dec 24 20:17:55 <JakeWharton> tnzr: com.squareup.okhttp:okhttp:2.1.0
Dec 24 20:17:58 <goa_> anyone got few minutes of free time?
Dec 24 20:18:03 <tnzr> ahh damn.. thanks jake
Dec 24 20:18:10 <HevvyMetal> sorry can't cyber right now goa_
Dec 24 20:18:54 <g00s> external dependencies in project view ?
Dec 24 20:18:54 <drinfernoo> HevvyMetal that link was for aide
Dec 24 20:18:59 <goa_> okay well cyber later HevvyMetal, right now id like to ask someone knowledgable about rom development a few questions. im a complete beginner.
Dec 24 20:19:17 <HevvyMetal> baba rom dass?
Dec 24 20:19:35 <JakeWharton> g00s: external libraries
Dec 24 20:19:38 <HevvyMetal> well anyway i don't know anything about roms
Dec 24 20:19:43 <HevvyMetal> but maybe some folks do
Dec 24 20:19:47 <JakeWharton> g00s: it's always at the bottom
Dec 24 20:20:01 <g00s> JakeWharton ah see it, i had to switch from android -> project
Dec 24 20:20:18 <HevvyMetal> i havent used okhttp yet but i hear its cool
Dec 24 20:20:24 <g00s> cool
Dec 24 20:20:35 <HevvyMetal> if it calls the same uri twice in a row does it kill the first one or do you get two callbacks with it?
Dec 24 20:20:43 <JakeWharton> two callbacks
Dec 24 20:20:47 <JakeWharton> two requests
Dec 24 20:21:09 <JakeWharton> joining is hard... https://github.com/square/okhttp/issues/607
Dec 24 20:21:10 <HevvyMetal> is there anyway to supercede that for instance if you retry after 5 seconds and don't want to see the first callback anymore JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 20:21:17 <JakeWharton> that's an application-level concern
Dec 24 20:21:26 <JakeWharton> cancel the first Call
Dec 24 20:21:41 <HevvyMetal> when it calls back can I get a unique id back so I know which call it was? eg an additional param?
Dec 24 20:22:01 <JakeWharton> no, you have a Call object
Dec 24 20:22:01 <g00s> weird, external libraries isnt showing everything
Dec 24 20:22:08 <JakeWharton> g00s: doesn't show aars
Dec 24 20:22:14 <JakeWharton> have to looks at build/intermedites/ for that
Dec 24 20:22:14 <g00s> ah, k
Dec 24 20:22:20 <JakeWharton> intermediates/
Dec 24 20:22:48 <g00s> i see , thanks
Dec 24 20:23:40 <lasserix> Is tabs for different sections of a configuration activity the best pattern these days?
Dec 24 20:24:10 <JakeWharton> no, usually it's hierarchical
Dec 24 20:24:21 <lasserix> that at me?
Dec 24 20:24:24 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 20:24:34 <lasserix> how do you mean hierachical?
Dec 24 20:24:55 <JakeWharton> first screen is high-level settings and groups which you can drill into
Dec 24 20:25:59 <MalekAlrwily> How can I get the java files directory in gradle? like when I want build directory, I will use $buildDir
Dec 24 20:26:08 <lasserix> that is "more desirable" than tabs across the top? i was thinking of doing something like AI keyboard's configuration activity
Dec 24 20:26:14 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  Seems I can avoid those GC_FOR_ALLOC things by streaming the JSON instead of using the DOM thing.  Though I could be mistaken (not sufficient testing yet).
Dec 24 20:26:26 <JakeWharton> lasserix: what is AI?
Dec 24 20:26:29 <drinfernoo> goa_ try #android-root
Dec 24 20:27:05 <TacticalJoke> Streaming is actually quite easy in my case.  My classes all do a little work (so there's no huge block of code anywhere).
Dec 24 20:27:08 <lasserix> It's just a keyboard... but the configuration activity has like "Keyboard Overall Settings / Color Appearances / Keyboard Controls" as tabs with preference style list config for each tab
Dec 24 20:27:24 <g00s> lasserix did you get your expanding preference items working ?
Dec 24 20:27:31 <lasserix> you are suggesting i should do that but use the hierarchal layout?
Dec 24 20:27:38 <lasserix> g00s kind of
Dec 24 20:27:48 <TacticalJoke> I love code that's as light as a feather.
Dec 24 20:28:05 <g00s> TacticalJoke thats not as good as lighter then air though :)
Dec 24 20:28:11 <TacticalJoke> No unnecessary stuff.  Just straight-up doing what needs to be done.
Dec 24 20:28:28 <TacticalJoke> Get in, process, get the hell outta there.
Dec 24 20:28:36 <shmooz> in what seems something close to english to you ...
Dec 24 20:29:17 <shmooz> the machines speak a very diffent language ;)
Dec 24 20:29:46 <drinfernoo> shmooz, thats very zen lmao
Dec 24 20:29:55 <lasserix> So JakeWharton the only thing is that each sub-configuration page would have the same live preview, so even if this is true the hierarchal is better than the tabs? (I saw this because with tabs the fact the live preview is the same would make it feel more contiguous)
Dec 24 20:30:09 <JakeWharton> i have no idea what you are doing
Dec 24 20:30:21 <JakeWharton> i was just answering the question as to whether it was common or desirable
Dec 24 20:30:32 <lasserix> ahh ok
Dec 24 20:30:41 <lasserix> yeah this is diff a little cause it is a design question ;p
Dec 24 20:30:43 <lasserix> thanks
Dec 24 20:30:51 <lasserix> I see swype does do that
Dec 24 20:32:35 <HevvyMetal> streaming using what apis tactialjoke?
Dec 24 20:32:48 <TacticalJoke> Reddit's JSON API.
Dec 24 20:32:49 <HevvyMetal> thats whats nice about C# is structs instead of objects
Dec 24 20:32:56 <lasserix> hmm if i did transitions actually using nested hierarchal structure would fit the expansion thing nicely
Dec 24 20:33:00 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, I wish Java had value UDTs.
Dec 24 20:33:15 <TacticalJoke> It's annoying that you have to create something on the heap every single time.
Dec 24 20:33:16 <HevvyMetal> right but are you using retrofit or what are you using to parse reddits json api?
Dec 24 20:33:20 <TacticalJoke> Gson.
Dec 24 20:33:23 <HevvyMetal> right and same with strings
Dec 24 20:33:47 <TacticalJoke> What about strings?
Dec 24 20:33:49 <HevvyMetal> ok and what are you using to get the json tacticaljoke any library?
Dec 24 20:33:56 <HevvyMetal> it would be nice if strings were not on the GC heap
Dec 24 20:34:00 <TacticalJoke> OkHttp.
Dec 24 20:34:20 <HevvyMetal> ok well doesn't retrofit do all that for you?
Dec 24 20:34:20 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  Strings on the stack can get heavy.
Dec 24 20:34:34 <HevvyMetal> they don't have to be on the stack just in the calloc space
Dec 24 20:34:40 <HevvyMetal> calloc is not the stack
Dec 24 20:34:51 <HevvyMetal> it just doesnt need to be gc'd if it's not an object
Dec 24 20:35:06 <JakeWharton> intern the string then
Dec 24 20:35:12 <HevvyMetal> but i'm not sure how android deals with fragmentation of the malloc
Dec 24 20:35:14 <lasserix> you don't have to create something on the heap everytime
Dec 24 20:35:15 <HevvyMetal> intern?
Dec 24 20:35:16 <shmooz> maybe we should put up a competition for the best performing listview with a prize for the winner
Dec 24 20:35:25 <JakeWharton> String.intern
Dec 24 20:35:28 <HevvyMetal> well there has to be a listview replacement
Dec 24 20:35:39 <HevvyMetal> already
Dec 24 20:35:45 <HevvyMetal> is there a good gui widgets library like taht?
Dec 24 20:35:53 <JakeWharton> shmooz: an empty one
Dec 24 20:35:54 <HevvyMetal> i've never heard of String.intern I'll check that out
Dec 24 20:36:38 <TacticalJoke> HevvyMetal:  I'm not sure what you mean by "calloc space".  I thought calloc() allocated heap memory?
Dec 24 20:36:44 <lasserix> you can use java nio buffers and bypass the heap
Dec 24 20:36:49 <shmooz> JakeWharton: they'll all be subject to same tests of whatever
Dec 24 20:37:25 <TacticalJoke> Maybe that's the solution for performance: don't fill ListViews.
Dec 24 20:37:27 <TacticalJoke> Or anything, even.
Dec 24 20:37:30 <HevvyMetal> TacticalJoke: it depends what you call "the heap"
Dec 24 20:37:31 <TacticalJoke> Don't even show a UI.
Dec 24 20:37:48 <HevvyMetal> thre is a "c heap" and a "java heap" TacticalJoke
Dec 24 20:37:50 <lasserix> i heard you want to avoid intern in android
Dec 24 20:38:10 <HevvyMetal> heard what about it?
Dec 24 20:38:22 <JakeWharton> yeah you shouldn't intern
Dec 24 20:38:29 <JakeWharton> good way to blow your pool, OOM, etc.
Dec 24 20:39:01 <HevvyMetal> well one must be careful and monitor that stuff
Dec 24 20:39:04 <HevvyMetal> but it's no worse than iOS
Dec 24 20:39:23 <HevvyMetal> obtw i was gonna mention JakeWharton did you know that picasso is baked into google's leanback API?
Dec 24 20:39:40 <HevvyMetal> when are they gonna just put that in the oS finally...background image loading? who needs it? derp
Dec 24 20:39:51 <HevvyMetal> meanwhile is that something that is baked into ios (bg image loading)?
Dec 24 20:39:53 <JakeWharton> putting it in the OS means it can't evolve
Dec 24 20:39:58 <JakeWharton> no it's not in iOS
Dec 24 20:40:08 <HevvyMetal> really? i heard ios does automatic retries etc
Dec 24 20:40:12 <HevvyMetal> what libs do people use for ios?
Dec 24 20:40:13 <JakeWharton> no
Dec 24 20:40:24 <HevvyMetal> well if you put it in the compatibility library it can evolve faster JakeWharton
Dec 24 20:40:35 <HevvyMetal> appcompat39 or whatever
Dec 24 20:40:42 <g00s> HevvyMetal AFNetworking
Dec 24 20:40:44 <JakeWharton> but there's no need to do that
Dec 24 20:41:01 <JakeWharton> it's already a library so there's nothing to gain
Dec 24 20:41:05 <HevvyMetal> so what's your favorite widget library JakeWharton ? fast listview other stuff is square working on oen?
Dec 24 20:41:29 <JakeWharton> we don't use any external widgets
Dec 24 20:41:33 <HevvyMetal> yeah but it's a lib that most people dont find...maybe now that google supports it they will..but i never found picasso when i was searching for background tile loading
Dec 24 20:41:44 <lasserix> heavymetal if you a collection of items of known size, you can make the fastest listview by hardcoding everything
Dec 24 20:41:46 <TacticalJoke> God, I love parsing.  I swear that my brain has a lobe dedicated to writing code that parses stuff.
Dec 24 20:41:48 <HevvyMetal> did you write your own widgets JakeWharton ? are they published?
Dec 24 20:41:57 <JakeWharton> i have no idea what you mean by widget
Dec 24 20:42:05 <JakeWharton> platform ones solve all our problems
Dec 24 20:42:05 <HevvyMetal> widget is like a button or calendar
Dec 24 20:42:06 <lasserix> has anyone ever tried setting getViewItemTypeCount = dataElements.size?
Dec 24 20:42:07 <TacticalJoke> I'd parse this JSON character by character if I had time.
Dec 24 20:42:12 <HevvyMetal> you have a calendar widget
Dec 24 20:42:22 <HevvyMetal> that you open sourced
Dec 24 20:42:23 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: that would be a gigantic waste of time
Dec 24 20:42:28 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: you should use ragel
Dec 24 20:42:30 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, I know.  It'd be weirdly fun, though.
Dec 24 20:42:44 <HevvyMetal> lasserix harding everything what?
Dec 24 20:42:52 <HevvyMetal> i'm sure there are fast listview replacements
Dec 24 20:42:53 <shmooz> I miss my days of screen scraping with php and regex
Dec 24 20:42:56 <TacticalJoke> I think writing a JSON library would be really fun.
Dec 24 20:43:03 <g00s> ragel isn't good for hierarchical structures, best for regular languages
Dec 24 20:43:06 <HevvyMetal> what kind of json library TacticalJoke ?
Dec 24 20:43:10 <JakeWharton> there's no point in replacing listview for most use cases
Dec 24 20:43:12 <lasserix> g00s oh TacticalJokenm
Dec 24 20:43:12 <TacticalJoke> Maybe just a streaming one.
Dec 24 20:43:21 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: what?
Dec 24 20:43:42 <TacticalJoke> It would certainly be recreating the wheel.
Dec 24 20:43:50 <TacticalJoke> Or "reinventing".
Dec 24 20:43:56 <HevvyMetal> well a lot of people want to replace listview JakeWharton esp if they have 10,000 elements which is in itself stupid
Dec 24 20:44:02 <HevvyMetal> lasserix : hard coding sorry
Dec 24 20:44:04 <JakeWharton> then they're dumb
Dec 24 20:44:16 <JakeWharton> ListView can handle infinite collections just fine
Dec 24 20:44:27 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: if you have a list of fixed size, you don'tneed to implement getview, you can just allocate everything up front
Dec 24 20:44:29 <TacticalJoke> I was thinking of switching to RecyclerView in case there's any performance improvement, but I'm not sure.
Dec 24 20:44:35 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: post-1.0
Dec 24 20:44:44 <g00s> TacticalJoke but that is exactly what i do with ragel, parse char by char and then to floating number conversion without Double.parse() or anything like that
Dec 24 20:44:47 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, that's on my post-1.0 list.  :D
Dec 24 20:44:55 <TacticalJoke> Interesting, g00s.
Dec 24 20:44:58 <HevvyMetal> lasserix : "everything"? all N elements?
Dec 24 20:45:02 <lasserix> yeah
Dec 24 20:45:06 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: you should be doing the dumbest, fastest thing to just ship the thing
Dec 24 20:45:18 <lasserix> obv you have to have small set size
Dec 24 20:45:20 <HevvyMetal> what do you folks think about Scrum and Agile?
Dec 24 20:45:23 <g00s> TacticalJoke also if you ae hard up, you can always store strings as utf-8 bytes in a byte buffer pool
Dec 24 20:45:30 <HevvyMetal> well it's not obvious lasserix
Dec 24 20:45:41 <lasserix> Scrum and agile are great if you know what they are and how to do them
Dec 24 20:45:45 <HevvyMetal> if it's a small size why do you care about performance? makes no sense lasserix
Dec 24 20:46:03 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: depends on how complicated your list items are
Dec 24 20:46:13 <HevvyMetal> sure that's like saying communism is great in the ideal case lasserix in the practical case what do you see?
Dec 24 20:46:39 <lasserix> paris commune of 1848
Dec 24 20:46:55 <lasserix> chile under allende
Dec 24 20:46:56 <g00s> HevvyMetal unfortunately you have a lot of peoplke with pmbok certs trying to run agile projects
Dec 24 20:47:01 <g00s> i think agile has to be bottom up
Dec 24 20:47:01 <shmooz> JakeWharton: that's what I'm doing but I still can't finish this stupid thing
Dec 24 20:47:22 <HevvyMetal> i just think the agile stuff and especially scrum is absolutely horrible
Dec 24 20:47:28 <HevvyMetal> some of it might work sometimes
Dec 24 20:47:30 <lasserix> g00s; yeah it can quickly turn into counter-productive beaucratic bs
Dec 24 20:47:42 <HevvyMetal> but mostly its cargo cult and micromanaging
Dec 24 20:47:49 <JakeWharton> lasserix: kind of like this conversation
Dec 24 20:48:01 <lasserix> hehehe
Dec 24 20:48:03 <shmooz> let TacticalJoke do his research and then we'll make him document it and use his super fast whatever for our apps
Dec 24 20:48:22 <HevvyMetal> i hate to be treated like an infant in scrum and wonder why so many people sign up for it
Dec 24 20:48:36 <lasserix> JakeWharton: do you know of any apps that use hierarchal navigation really well, as in their design aesthetic?
Dec 24 20:48:41 <HevvyMetal> i would have thought it would be dead by now but it seems to be part of everything these days
Dec 24 20:48:43 <JakeWharton> lasserix: inBox
Dec 24 20:48:52 <JakeWharton> wow that shift key moved over two whole characters...
Dec 24 20:49:04 <g00s> is inbox out of beta ?
Dec 24 20:49:10 <lasserix> ahh i am stil waiting for an invite
Dec 24 20:49:16 <JakeWharton> lasserix: send me your email
Dec 24 20:49:28 <lasserix> thanks
Dec 24 20:49:38 <tnzr> android studio users: When you push your project up to github, do you also add all the .idea and Android Studio files?
Dec 24 20:49:55 <JakeWharton> tnzr: no. ignore .idea and *.iml
Dec 24 20:50:00 <JakeWharton> the build.gradle files are the source of truth
Dec 24 20:50:06 <tnzr> JakeWharton: awesome, thanks!
Dec 24 20:51:07 <HevvyMetal> what made google pivot away from eclipse and towards IntelliJ/AS?
Dec 24 20:51:15 <HevvyMetal> i just dont see what good it brings really
Dec 24 20:51:21 <HevvyMetal> compared to improving eclipse
Dec 24 20:51:29 <shmooz> all the complaining in this channel
Dec 24 20:51:41 <HevvyMetal> it's not really a complaint its a question
Dec 24 20:51:42 <shmooz> google was listening
Dec 24 20:51:43 <JakeWharton> improving eclipse would be a nightmare
Dec 24 20:51:50 <HevvyMetal> is there something really awesome about intellij i'm missing?
Dec 24 20:52:01 <HevvyMetal> or was it just easier to corral the bulgarians compared to teh open sources?
Dec 24 20:52:10 <HevvyMetal> i come from a visual studio background
Dec 24 20:52:17 <HevvyMetal> so I think they are all 3 pretty different
Dec 24 20:52:32 <shmooz> the experienced were preffering IDEA before AS came out
Dec 24 20:52:32 <HevvyMetal> VS is certainly the "best" in many regards
Dec 24 20:52:33 <JakeWharton> IntelliJ is vastly superior in code anaysis and refactoring tools
Dec 24 20:53:15 <HevvyMetal> what does it refactor that eclipse doesn't JakeWharton ? eclipse refactoring is pretty elite can even rename the project com.whatever.url in the manifest and it regenerates all the import *.r stuff
Dec 24 20:53:31 <HevvyMetal> all the other refactorings seemed similar
Dec 24 20:53:33 <JakeWharton> that's not really advanced
Dec 24 20:53:48 <HevvyMetal> wel does AS do that?
Dec 24 20:53:59 <HevvyMetal> what does AS do that is "vastly superior" then?
Dec 24 20:54:27 <g00s> eclipse seriously fucked up my project a few times refactoring, but it delegates to the ADT (or the ADT hooks into that) for android-specific refactorings. ADT really munged up files and screwed stuff up
Dec 24 20:54:41 <JakeWharton> the other week i pulled a 4-line chunk of code up from a leaf class into a base class, IntelliJ searched all other downstream implementing classes for those four lines of code and replaced them with a method call to the base class
Dec 24 20:55:05 <JakeWharton> you can refactor a method and it will even update reference in comments or getMethod("methodName") calls
Dec 24 20:55:14 <JakeWharton> inlining and extraction is pretty ridiculous
Dec 24 20:55:23 <JakeWharton> i inlined an entire class hierarchy the other day
Dec 24 20:55:33 <TacticalJoke> g00s:  Hmm.I've never had an issue with Eclipse's refactoring.
Dec 24 20:55:52 <g00s> i had to restore the project from git, the XML wasn't even well formed any more
Dec 24 20:56:03 <g00s> like AndroidManifest.xmls , etc
Dec 24 20:56:32 <JakeWharton> there's hundreds of awesome things along those lines which you can find that Eclipse doesn't have that I use incessantly
Dec 24 20:56:57 <JakeWharton> obviously the code completion and intention prompts are 100x faster. eclipse's is dog slow
Dec 24 20:57:06 <lasserix> interesting
Dec 24 20:57:26 <pfn> refactoring is one of the least used features of ides for me
Dec 24 20:57:46 <HevvyMetal> yeah these seem like very niche features to make a total swap of millions of users to a new ide
Dec 24 20:57:53 <TacticalJoke> I use refactoring tools all the time.
Dec 24 20:57:54 <HevvyMetal> is there something really HUGE that it does?
Dec 24 20:57:59 <TacticalJoke> Renaming stuff several times an hour.
Dec 24 20:58:11 <HevvyMetal> that's ADD TacticalJoke
Dec 24 20:58:15 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  On my computer, basically everything about Android Studio is slower than basically everything about Eclipse.
Dec 24 20:58:17 <JakeWharton> it's internal project model and APIs are so much nicer than Eclipse's
Dec 24 20:58:18 <shmooz> I use Ctrl + F
Dec 24 20:58:20 <TacticalJoke> Including intellisense.
Dec 24 20:58:29 <HevvyMetal> agreed TacticalJoke
Dec 24 20:58:39 <JakeWharton> it's open source sans the laughable Eclipse foundation so the barrier of changes is low
Dec 24 20:58:40 <HevvyMetal> thats what i see here anyway
Dec 24 20:58:50 <HevvyMetal> i thought intellij is payware?
Dec 24 20:58:52 <HevvyMetal> jetbrains?
Dec 24 20:58:54 <HevvyMetal> not open source
Dec 24 20:58:57 <JakeWharton> it's open source
Dec 24 20:59:04 <HevvyMetal> k
Dec 24 20:59:05 <TacticalJoke> The community edition isn't payware.
Dec 24 20:59:05 <davis> hello
Dec 24 20:59:10 <HevvyMetal> ah
Dec 24 20:59:56 <HevvyMetal> so what are features in AS you folks like compared to eclipse?
Dec 24 21:00:05 <HevvyMetal> besides what JakeWharton said
Dec 24 21:00:12 <g00s> i think many use gradle HevvyMetal
Dec 24 21:00:23 <HevvyMetal> I really like the snazzy borders around the layouts myself
Dec 24 21:00:37 <HevvyMetal> you can use gradle in eclipse too tho
Dec 24 21:00:38 <shmooz> from gradle to grave
Dec 24 21:00:49 <HevvyMetal> i'm not sold on gradle or ant or shmant or any of that shit either personally
Dec 24 21:00:54 <HevvyMetal> maybe it helps huge projects
Dec 24 21:01:02 <HevvyMetal> most android projects i work on are 0-2 developers
Dec 24 21:01:04 <HevvyMetal> hovering around 1
Dec 24 21:01:24 <HevvyMetal> i can't even imagine an anroid projet with 10 people that would be 0.001% of the population
Dec 24 21:01:26 <davis> I'm having a problem with a customview. I don't get an exception, but I also don't see any text or graphics being rendered. its just blank.
Dec 24 21:02:02 <HevvyMetal> i love how people say gradle is "declarative" and then right after that they call maven() wtf?
Dec 24 21:02:18 <HevvyMetal> this imperative/declarative chicanery in makefiles has been going in circles for 40 years now
Dec 24 21:02:27 <HevvyMetal> but if we switch every few years its progress >:)
Dec 24 21:02:28 <JakeWharton> mavenCentral() has nothing to do with Maven
Dec 24 21:02:29 <HevvyMetal> sorry
Dec 24 21:03:02 <HevvyMetal> what does it have to do with?
Dec 24 21:03:15 <JakeWharton> the maven central artifact repository
Dec 24 21:03:23 <HevvyMetal> of course
Dec 24 21:03:34 <g00s> HevvyMetal right but the google android gradle plugin doesn't work with eclipse. and that gives you nice things easily like product flavors, etc
Dec 24 21:04:03 <HevvyMetal> product flavors g00s? what's that? there are gradle android plugins for eclipse
Dec 24 21:04:05 <HevvyMetal> open source
Dec 24 21:04:18 <HevvyMetal> but i was mostly using maven
Dec 24 21:04:21 <HevvyMetal> and gave up on that too
Dec 24 21:04:22 <JakeWharton> Eclipse's project model can't handle what the android gralde plugin requires
Dec 24 21:04:42 <HevvyMetal> there are other gradle plugins and frankly i see NO advantage to gradle over maven
Dec 24 21:04:51 <HevvyMetal> maybe there are advantages
Dec 24 21:04:57 <HevvyMetal> but i don't know what they are yet
Dec 24 21:05:04 <JakeWharton> well there's tons
Dec 24 21:05:05 <HevvyMetal> maven is fine for me and can be done in eclipse
Dec 24 21:05:09 <HevvyMetal> like what JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 21:05:57 <JakeWharton> ugh
Dec 24 21:06:01 <JakeWharton> i'm growing tired of this routine
Dec 24 21:06:13 <lasserix> davis did you override onMeasure?
Dec 24 21:06:21 <JakeWharton> let's just skip this conversation where I list a bunch and then you say that you don't agree and/or see them as advantages
Dec 24 21:06:37 <lasserix> davis, call setBackground(Color.RED) to verify your custom view has any viewable dimensions
Dec 24 21:06:58 <JakeWharton> davis: also log calls to onMeasure, onLayout, and onDraw to make sure they're being invoked
Dec 24 21:07:01 <JakeWharton> or show code
Dec 24 21:07:10 <JakeWharton> you haven't really given us anything to work with to try and help...
Dec 24 21:07:21 <JakeWharton> help us help you!
Dec 24 21:07:29 <TacticalJoke> Srsly though.
Dec 24 21:12:22 <davis> laserix, give me a a second. I'm trying to check breakpoints
Dec 24 21:13:18 <TacticalJoke> java.lang.IllegalStateException: Expected a name but was STRING at line 1 column 1375 path $[0].data.children[0].data.subreddit_id
Dec 24 21:13:23 <TacticalJoke> Gson's new path thing is handy.
Dec 24 21:13:25 <TacticalJoke> That's for streaming.
Dec 24 21:13:52 <g00s> i see "The Interview" is available in Google Play :D
Dec 24 21:14:04 <davis> lasserix, JakeWharton I don't have an onmeasure in my containing activity, but I do have an ondraw().  The code in the ondraw is being hit by the breakpoint.
Dec 24 21:14:17 <TacticalJoke> davis:  Use Log.i, not breakpoints.
Dec 24 21:14:28 <TacticalJoke> Or Log.d or whatever.
Dec 24 21:14:54 <TacticalJoke> Breakpoints make it too hard to figure out what's going on.
Dec 24 21:15:58 <davis> hmm.
Dec 24 21:16:40 <davis> i'm thinking. I could show you the code with pastebin, or try to add an onmeasure() routine to my view which has the customview.
Dec 24 21:16:43 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: the path thing works for object mapping as well
Dec 24 21:17:12 <TacticalJoke> Cool.
Dec 24 21:18:05 <davis> http://pastebin.com/CgBFxiq1
Dec 24 21:20:20 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: what? breakpoints are fine
Dec 24 21:20:33 <lasserix> its nice to put a breakpoint next to your log statement too ;)
Dec 24 21:21:02 <HevvyMetal> it's not just about me JakeWharton
Dec 24 21:21:14 <HevvyMetal> you listed a few on AS and most people didn't seem to get that excited
Dec 24 21:21:29 <HevvyMetal> i think you're a great guy not bagging just curious what is so great about gradle?
Dec 24 21:21:39 <HevvyMetal> if the answer is CI builds then fine tahts a good answer
Dec 24 21:21:48 <HevvyMetal> so for people doing CI it might be good
Dec 24 21:22:01 <HevvyMetal> i just think 99% of android developers are not doing CI because they just have 1 or 2 devs
Dec 24 21:22:11 <HevvyMetal> even the wunderground app is just 2 ppl
Dec 24 21:22:26 <lasserix> davis: draw the text in the TL corner first
Dec 24 21:22:30 <lasserix> make sure that works, then place it
Dec 24 21:22:31 <HevvyMetal> so I dunno...maybe AS is good for "enterprise" apps...at least ones that don't need the NDK hehe
Dec 24 21:22:48 <lasserix> make sure you have none zero or close to zero values for textsize or any of those measurements
Dec 24 21:23:08 <davis> ok let me look for small values
Dec 24 21:23:12 <davis> one sec
Dec 24 21:23:16 <lasserix> davis also make sure you have set a defined width/height
Dec 24 21:23:42 <lasserix> for instance if you do wrap content you'd need to override onmeasure to set the width and height of the content
Dec 24 21:26:52 <davis> at line 96 in that pastebin, which is the canvas.drawText() routine, I do have values for some of the parameters but there is one set ot zero as you warned.
Dec 24 21:28:08 <davis> however the actual result is not zero. its 431.5
Dec 24 21:28:27 <davis> paddingTop + (contentHeight + mTextHeight) / 2
Dec 24 21:28:42 <davis> the mTextHeight variable is zero though.
Dec 24 21:30:00 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  So I switched my code to use JSON streaming instead of the DOM thing and I'm still getting a lot of GC_FOR_ALLOC messages.  :/
Dec 24 21:30:12 <TacticalJoke> On the plus side, it took me only an hour (and not two days) to switch the whole thing.
Dec 24 21:31:00 <TacticalJoke> davis:  Can you build it up step by step?  Just use dummy values to start with, to make sure the basics are in place.
Dec 24 21:32:22 <davis> this code was working until i added the customview, i'm pretty much doing what is in the android dev docs. my worry is that the docs are not up to date. i don't see anything different from the example.
Dec 24 21:32:49 <TacticalJoke> davis:  Did you start one tiny step at a time, making sure things worked every time you moved forwards?
Dec 24 21:34:14 <HevvyMetal> what is the dom thing that you were using before json streaming? json streaming = gson? what was before taht just curious TacticalJoke
Dec 24 21:35:06 <blusky> is it possible to use Picasso and okhttp 2 on the same app ?
Dec 24 21:35:10 <JakeWharton> yes
Dec 24 21:35:14 <TacticalJoke> I was asking Gson to build up a parse tree for me, and then I was extracting data from it.  Now, I'm parsing tokens manually.
Dec 24 21:35:20 <JakeWharton> just drop OkHttp into your app and Picasso will pick it up automatically
Dec 24 21:35:42 <HevvyMetal> so now = no gson TacticalJoke ?
Dec 24 21:35:48 <blusky> mmmh... i'm not that advanced :D I just put compile 'com.squareup.picasso:picasso:2.4.0' and compile 'com.squareup.okhttp:okhttp:2.1.0' on my graddle file
Dec 24 21:35:51 <TacticalJoke> I'm using Gson to parse tokens manually.
Dec 24 21:35:57 <blusky> and it's kind of failing
Dec 24 21:35:57 <JakeWharton> blusky: that's all you have to do
Dec 24 21:36:10 <JakeWharton> what does 'kind of failing' mean?
Dec 24 21:36:15 <JakeWharton> oh
Dec 24 21:36:18 <JakeWharton> you need okhttp-urlconnection as well
Dec 24 21:36:23 <HevvyMetal> oh ok what was your call to gson to build a parse tree and what's the one to do it manually? did you get better results with the latter TacticalJoke ?
Dec 24 21:36:31 <blusky>     java.lang.RuntimeException: Picasso detected an unsupported OkHttp on the classpath.
Dec 24 21:36:32 <JakeWharton> cmd+d on the okhttp dependency and change the middle thing (the artifact ID) to 'okhttp-urlconnection'
Dec 24 21:36:34 <blusky>     To use OkHttp with this version of Picasso, you'll need:
Dec 24 21:36:36 <blusky>     1. com.squareup.okhttp:okhttp:1.6.0 (or newer)
Dec 24 21:36:39 <blusky>     2. com.squareup.okhttp:okhttp-urlconnection:1.6.0 (or newer)
Dec 24 21:36:48 <JakeWharton> it tells you what to do
Dec 24 21:36:53 <JakeWharton> did you read the message?
Dec 24 21:37:00 <HevvyMetal> #squareup
Dec 24 21:37:00 <blusky> yup
Dec 24 21:37:01 <HevvyMetal> ;)
Dec 24 21:37:06 <blusky> i added compile 'com.squareup.okhttp:okhttp-urlconnection'
Dec 24 21:37:14 <blusky> now trying to debug gradle :D
Dec 24 21:38:12 <HevvyMetal> check the version #s on your compile statemens blusky
Dec 24 21:38:14 <blusky> does the order matter ?
Dec 24 21:38:18 <JakeWharton> no
Dec 24 21:38:50 <HevvyMetal> shouldnt ok-http be 1.8+?
Dec 24 21:38:58 <JakeWharton> it should be 2.1.0
Dec 24 21:39:03 <TacticalJoke> Some of these GC_FOR_ALLOC messages have my application name; others don't.  Is that significant?  (They seem to all be related to my app.)
Dec 24 21:39:11 <HevvyMetal> right yo uhave 1.6 blusky
Dec 24 21:39:19 <HevvyMetal> you higher version #s
Dec 24 21:39:21 <HevvyMetal> use
Dec 24 21:39:22 <HevvyMetal> bleh
Dec 24 21:39:33 <JakeWharton> 1.6 would work, but he has 2.1.0 as he said above
Dec 24 21:40:14 <HevvyMetal> ah right just saw the stuff about 1.6
Dec 24 21:40:23 <blusky> what version of okhttp-urlconnection should I put ?
Dec 24 21:40:26 <JakeWharton> that was the extremely verbose exception message we spit out
Dec 24 21:40:31 <JakeWharton> blusky: same as the normal okhttp dependency
Dec 24 21:40:40 <JakeWharton> 2.1.0
Dec 24 21:41:03 <blusky> ok, trying :)
Dec 24 21:41:15 <lasserix> davis you figured it out?
Dec 24 21:41:55 <blusky> nice ! working fine now, thanks JakeWharton and HevvyMetal :)
Dec 24 21:42:45 <lasserix> davis: what is mExampleDimension? you initialize it to zero, but then also use it as default value to return from attribute
Dec 24 21:42:49 <lasserix> which is a bad idea, btw
Dec 24 21:43:03 <lasserix> but if that is zero than your font size is zero and therefore you see nothing
Dec 24 21:45:13 <g00s> wow, i'm just reading about a developer here that paid to license artwork in their app, and google terminated their account on copyright violations because their automated thingy wasn't smart enough
Dec 24 21:46:52 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: it is signifigant if you are noticing pauses
Dec 24 21:47:03 <davis> lasserix, no i have not figured it out. i'm at a loss. i'm trying to remember how i made some changes.
Dec 24 21:47:09 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  I wonder whether it's safe to assume that, if a GC_FOR_ALLOC message isn't tagged with my app name (even if it seems to come from my app), it won't pause my app when it "stops the word".
Dec 24 21:47:18 <TacticalJoke> I'm not noticing pauses, lasserix.
Dec 24 21:47:35 <TacticalJoke> davis:  Can't you try just starting over, one step at a time?
Dec 24 21:47:37 <davis> for instance, i see that the mExampleString is set to "john" but I don't see john anywhere, i dont know where its getting that value.
Dec 24 21:47:54 <TacticalJoke> You should be able to go back to the previous step anytime something like this isn't working.
Dec 24 21:48:11 <TacticalJoke> world*
Dec 24 21:48:37 <capella-s3> you must license the thing you licensed
Dec 24 21:50:04 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: are you filtering based on your PID?
Dec 24 21:50:09 <JakeWharton> or just tailing all logs?
Dec 24 21:50:12 <TacticalJoke> Nah.  Just based on "-heap".
Dec 24 21:51:03 <davis> ahh, its in the .xml for the custom file
Dec 24 21:51:28 <TacticalJoke> The ones with my app name all have the same PID (which makes sense).
Dec 24 21:51:35 <TacticalJoke> The ones without all have a different PID.
Dec 24 21:51:56 <TacticalJoke> It's weird.  I thought that switching to manual parsing would get rid of this GC_FOR_ALLOC thing.
Dec 24 21:52:05 <TacticalJoke> Like, I'm not doing anything crazy with memory.  Just the absolute essentials.
Dec 24 21:53:26 <TacticalJoke> The GC_FOR_ALLOC messages with my PID appear about once every three times I load a comment listing.
Dec 24 21:53:41 <HevvyMetal> g00s did they contact the automated help line for assistance?
Dec 24 21:53:50 <g00s> HevvyMetal yeah right ha
Dec 24 21:54:42 <HevvyMetal> does it detect pics of kate upton on the launch screen g00s?
Dec 24 21:55:01 <HevvyMetal> so on an off topic rant i love android gaming
Dec 24 21:55:07 <g00s> i think they do go through your assets and compare hashes or knownn copyrighted stuff
Dec 24 21:55:08 <HevvyMetal> but all the games are so gouge oriented these days
Dec 24 21:55:26 <HevvyMetal> the freemium/smurfberry model
Dec 24 21:55:32 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  Gson has to be as efficient (regarding memory use) as Jackson when it comes to parsing, right?
Dec 24 21:55:38 <g00s> i've noticed people getting these dings from google when they update their apps
Dec 24 21:55:43 <HevvyMetal> they use an exponetial curve
Dec 24 21:55:48 <TacticalJoke> Streaming, rather.
Dec 24 21:55:49 <HevvyMetal> dings about what g00s?
Dec 24 21:55:51 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: yes
Dec 24 21:55:54 <HevvyMetal> level 0-5 is free
Dec 24 21:55:56 <TacticalJoke> Okay.
Dec 24 21:56:00 <HevvyMetal> level 5-6 $0.99
Dec 24 21:56:08 <g00s> HevvyMetal app suspended, account terminated dings
Dec 24 21:56:08 <HevvyMetal> level 6-7 $1.99
Dec 24 21:56:24 <HevvyMetal> what assets did they include g00s?
Dec 24 21:56:34 <HevvyMetal> i wonder hwo CI fits into google play approval process
Dec 24 21:56:38 <HevvyMetal> if someone has CI say
Dec 24 21:56:42 <HevvyMetal> and does 2 builds/day
Dec 24 21:56:53 <HevvyMetal> and submits 2 builds/day to google play
Dec 24 21:56:54 <eneasvva> Hi
Dec 24 21:56:57 <HevvyMetal> what happens?
Dec 24 21:57:02 <HevvyMetal> do they get throttled?
Dec 24 21:57:30 <eneasvva> how can I bind a ListFragment with an ArrayList ?
Dec 24 21:57:41 <HevvyMetal> i'm just curious because i havent worked in any shops big enough to really do CI on a play app
Dec 24 21:58:15 <JakeWharton> no one in their right mind would send CI builds to Play directly
Dec 24 21:58:47 <g00s> haha
Dec 24 21:58:47 <HevvyMetal> so what would you find the quanta to be for play but also users? 1x/wk? 1x/month? 1x/qtr?
Dec 24 21:59:12 <JakeWharton> it should be based on features and stability of the app
Dec 24 21:59:18 <JakeWharton> not time
Dec 24 21:59:22 <davis> hmm. in my .xml file, this does not work custom:exampleDimension="100"
Dec 24 21:59:25 <HevvyMetal> right but when i talk to clients JakeWharton
Dec 24 21:59:29 <HevvyMetal> they have this hardon for CI
Dec 24 21:59:39 <JakeWharton> that's completely orthogonal to shipping to Play
Dec 24 21:59:41 <HevvyMetal> and i say thats kinda dumb for play store
Dec 24 21:59:49 <HevvyMetal> right its like shrink wrapped
Dec 24 21:59:49 <TacticalJoke> If I run other reddit apps and watch the "-heap" tag, I should get all their GC messages, right?
Dec 24 21:59:56 <JakeWharton> you should absolutely use a CI for running unit and integration tests
Dec 24 21:59:56 <TacticalJoke> I notice that it never shows their app name.
Dec 24 22:00:09 <davis> this line in the java        mExampleDimension = a.getDimension(R.styleable.MyView_exampleDimension, mExampleDimension);
Dec 24 22:00:17 <HevvyMetal> why does a sole developer need either JakeWharton ?
Dec 24 22:00:30 <HevvyMetal> i believe in testing but you work for a huge opreation
Dec 24 22:00:38 <JakeWharton> because they're lazy as fuck and don't want to manually test every single thing in their app every time they want to ship an update
Dec 24 22:00:42 <HevvyMetal> i doubt that Ologn does much unit testing
Dec 24 22:00:46 <davis> seems to be trying to read that value from the .xml file, but its not specified that is why the text height is zero.
Dec 24 22:00:58 <HevvyMetal> yeah but unit tests dont test android ui's especially on different devices
Dec 24 22:01:05 <JakeWharton> that's why i said integration tests
Dec 24 22:01:06 <HevvyMetal> so they are pretty much meaningless
Dec 24 22:01:17 <HevvyMetal> ok so thats what touchmonkey or whatever?
Dec 24 22:01:27 <JakeWharton> no, using instrumentation
Dec 24 22:01:32 <HevvyMetal> well that would be for ui but still
Dec 24 22:01:38 <HevvyMetal> sure and to build that costs a lot
Dec 24 22:01:48 <HevvyMetal> i believe in integration tests more than unit tests
Dec 24 22:02:04 <JakeWharton> there's a high upfront cost, sure. but the long term cost of manual testing is orders of magnitude worse
Dec 24 22:02:06 <HevvyMetal> but integration testing costs a lot and may or may not be automated
Dec 24 22:02:06 <TacticalJoke> Is there an easy way to determine which PID relates to which running app?
Dec 24 22:02:21 <HevvyMetal> only if there IS a long term JakeWharton
Dec 24 22:02:31 <HevvyMetal> but yeah for the long term
Dec 24 22:02:36 <HevvyMetal> if it's a throwaway why bother
Dec 24 22:02:59 <neredsenvy> Two questions regarding graphics. drawable (without -...) this is the former (drawable-ldpi) ? And as long as the file names are the same the graphics can have different designs for different screens.
Dec 24 22:03:11 <JakeWharton> you wouldn't, but if it's a throwaway why would you even care about anything?
Dec 24 22:03:18 <JakeWharton> completely pointless to the topic
Dec 24 22:03:38 <g00s> HevvyMetal is testing JakeWharton 's sanity
Dec 24 22:03:40 <g00s> :)
Dec 24 22:03:50 <HevvyMetal> well, beause, JakeWharton and I don't agree with it, but given this TDD prevalent shit, you write all these tests first
Dec 24 22:03:58 <HevvyMetal> then you make them turn green
Dec 24 22:04:02 <JakeWharton> i don't
Dec 24 22:04:04 <HevvyMetal> then you load and stress test it
Dec 24 22:04:12 <HevvyMetal> then you find the business model doesnt work and pivot
Dec 24 22:04:21 <JakeWharton> wat
Dec 24 22:04:40 <HevvyMetal> see you dont work for a startup JakeWharton
Dec 24 22:04:41 <g00s> HevvyMetal no wonder why you don't like agile, if thats what you do on agile :)
Dec 24 22:04:42 <HevvyMetal> that's cool
Dec 24 22:04:54 <HevvyMetal> that isn't what "I" do on agile g00s
Dec 24 22:05:04 <JakeWharton> don't I?
Dec 24 22:05:06 <JakeWharton> thanks for the info
Dec 24 22:05:09 <HevvyMetal> and even if not "agile" that is what a lot of startus do do
Dec 24 22:05:23 <HevvyMetal> well it depends on your definition of startup JakeWharton i may be mistaken
Dec 24 22:05:36 <HevvyMetal> but i thought, that, square is worth $3+billion
Dec 24 22:05:36 <g00s> square ... hard to consider them a startup i guess now
Dec 24 22:05:41 <HevvyMetal> exactly
Dec 24 22:05:44 <HevvyMetal> $3billion?
Dec 24 22:05:54 <HevvyMetal> that's a lot different than a ycombinator and a pizza :)
Dec 24 22:05:59 * HevvyMetal +5 g00s
Dec 24 22:06:20 <JakeWharton> We're worth a lot more than that, but it's not like we're profitable or have IPO'd
Dec 24 22:06:28 <HevvyMetal> even crazier
Dec 24 22:06:38 <HevvyMetal> i'm trying to do a startup to fund startups
Dec 24 22:06:46 <HevvyMetal> a lot revolves around the valuation
Dec 24 22:07:04 <HevvyMetal> how did square get such an elevated valuation? not criticising just curious
Dec 24 22:07:05 <JakeWharton> This conversation is stupid. We were talking about testing and you balloon it out of control
Dec 24 22:07:19 <HevvyMetal> well to put the balloon to rest
Dec 24 22:07:23 <JakeWharton> Because we process tens of billions a year
Dec 24 22:07:26 <HevvyMetal> i said that bigger companies can afford more testing
Dec 24 22:07:33 <TacticalJoke> This is driving me crazy.  Why would my app, doing the absolute least possible -- even to the extent of streaming JSON stuff -- be getting GC_FOR_ALLOC all the time while Reddit News, slow and flashy and animation-y, get nothing like it?
Dec 24 22:07:34 <HevvyMetal> but how much profit per process do you make?
Dec 24 22:07:42 <JakeWharton> Wtd does that mean
Dec 24 22:08:05 <HevvyMetal> it doesnt mattter how many billions you process just how much you make on each one JakeWharton
Dec 24 22:08:13 <HevvyMetal> for instance if you lose money on each one that sucks
Dec 24 22:08:19 <JakeWharton> We don't lose money.
Dec 24 22:08:23 <HevvyMetal> if you make $1 on each one tahts great
Dec 24 22:08:27 <JakeWharton> This conversation is stupid.
Dec 24 22:08:31 <JakeWharton> Bye
Dec 24 22:08:40 <capella-s3> wth
Dec 24 22:09:16 <g00s> hey capella-s3
Dec 24 22:09:18 <TacticalJoke> Is there any chance that LogCat just isn't showing all the GC messages for apps other than mine?
Dec 24 22:09:35 <HevvyMetal> depends if you haev any filters set TacticalJoke
Dec 24 22:09:46 <TacticalJoke> I'm filtering only on "-heap".
Dec 24 22:09:47 <capella-s3> hi g00s...  lively Xmas eve :)
Dec 24 22:09:48 <HevvyMetal> try to turn off the filters
Dec 24 22:09:54 <HevvyMetal> sure np
Dec 24 22:10:03 <g00s> capella-s3 yeah i guess O.o
Dec 24 22:10:18 <HevvyMetal> are you all religious unit testers?
Dec 24 22:10:33 <HevvyMetal> what about integration tests?
Dec 24 22:11:10 <HevvyMetal> i find it pretty stupid in android for a couple of reasons
Dec 24 22:11:19 <HevvyMetal> but i dont want JakeWharton to hate me so I'll go into it later
Dec 24 22:11:32 <capella-s3> im doing a startup that funds startups funding startups
Dec 24 22:11:33 <HevvyMetal> but i just think UT solves problems that (usually) don't need to be solved
Dec 24 22:11:43 <HevvyMetal> capella you dog
Dec 24 22:11:56 <HevvyMetal> well i guess what you could call what i want to do is "an incubator"
Dec 24 22:12:05 <HevvyMetal> getting back to Ologn not need to be origianl idea
Dec 24 22:12:16 <HevvyMetal> so calling it an "incubator" feeds into the well trodden ground aspect
Dec 24 22:12:19 <HevvyMetal> so yeah capella
Dec 24 22:12:51 <davis> finally
Dec 24 22:12:58 <HevvyMetal> capella-s3 even
Dec 24 22:13:00 <davis> 24sp is the fix
Dec 24 22:13:08 <capella-s3> mm.. im sure you have many established lines of credit and available investors lined up
Dec 24 22:13:35 <HevvyMetal> well capella-s3 i sorta do have a line on the investors
Dec 24 22:13:50 <HevvyMetal> what i'm trying to do is refine the business model and the pitch
Dec 24 22:13:59 <HevvyMetal> what do startups want to pay for money
Dec 24 22:14:07 <capella-s3> tell bill and warren I said hi
Dec 24 22:14:07 <HevvyMetal> that's the biggest question
Dec 24 22:14:21 <HevvyMetal> bill who?
Dec 24 22:14:33 <HevvyMetal> bill gates who bought a house 3 miles from here?
Dec 24 22:14:45 <HevvyMetal> or horsie ranch or whatever
Dec 24 22:15:06 <HevvyMetal> see thats the thing in my area i calculated there is $80 billion
Dec 24 22:15:25 <RegexNinja47> What's the fastest way I can kickstart Android Development? I'm already experienced with UI Design, Java Development, and Linux, but I just switched to Android yesterday.
Dec 24 22:15:53 <HevvyMetal> 1% of that is $800 million
Dec 24 22:15:58 <g00s> but .. you're a ninja :|
Dec 24 22:15:59 <HevvyMetal> that's a shitload
Dec 24 22:16:07 <davis> RegexNinja47, i started by doing the training material on adroid developer google website
Dec 24 22:16:21 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  Is it wise to assume that name X will come before name Y in reddit's JSON?  There's one place I have to do that.
Dec 24 22:16:27 <TacticalJoke> Though it seems like JSON shouldn't be parsed like that.
Dec 24 22:16:32 <RegexNinja47> davis: I'll check that out.
Dec 24 22:17:29 <davis> http://developer.android.com/training/index.html
Dec 24 22:17:40 <RegexNinja47> Looks perfect!
Dec 24 22:17:41 <davis> the exact url
Dec 24 22:18:00 <RegexNinja47> Thanks!
Dec 24 22:18:07 <davis> you are welcome
Dec 24 22:29:09 <lasserix> JakeWharton: congrutalations, that is awesome to hear (about the valuqation)
Dec 24 22:29:18 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: its because parsing JSON creates lots of garbage
Dec 24 22:29:33 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  But Reddit News isn't showing so much GC_FOR_ALLOC stuff.  :/
Dec 24 22:29:47 <lasserix> you parse with gson?
Dec 24 22:29:49 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 22:29:58 <TacticalJoke> I just converted all the code to use JSON streaming.
Dec 24 22:30:10 <TacticalJoke> And it hasn't changed much with regard to GC_FOR_ALLOC messages.
Dec 24 22:30:12 <lasserix> use allocation tracker to determine
Dec 24 22:30:46 <TacticalJoke> Okay, I'll try it (I've never really used it before)
Dec 24 22:30:47 <TacticalJoke> .
Dec 24 22:31:04 <lasserix> so
Dec 24 22:31:11 <lasserix> figure out what makes the gc calls happen
Dec 24 22:31:19 <lasserix> then press the button to start allocation tracking
Dec 24 22:31:23 <lasserix> then do that conidition
Dec 24 22:31:32 <lasserix> once you get a few calls stop the allocation tracking
Dec 24 22:31:34 <lasserix> then sort
Dec 24 22:31:36 <blusky> JakeWharton & team square, you're awesome :D
Dec 24 22:32:00 <TacticalJoke> Sort by the second column?
Dec 24 22:32:21 <lasserix> dunno
Dec 24 22:32:28 <lasserix> the one that has the most allocations
Dec 24 22:32:32 <lasserix> then figure out where it is coming from
Dec 24 22:32:36 <lasserix> (it should show line number)
Dec 24 22:32:56 <lasserix> my guess it is going to probably be something to do with string creation
Dec 24 22:33:11 <neredsenvy> Anyone able to help with my question ?
Dec 24 22:33:24 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  I'm not seeing anything relating to my JSON stuff.
Dec 24 22:33:33 <TacticalJoke> All related to UI stuff.  Does this not touch background threads?
Dec 24 22:33:44 <lasserix> neredsenvy: what question?
Dec 24 22:33:50 <lasserix> no it does
Dec 24 22:33:57 <lasserix> anything being collected
Dec 24 22:34:16 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: i could be wrong not JSON doesn't look like GSON causes much GC from looking at SO
Dec 24 22:34:27 <neredsenvy> lasserix Is "drawable" dir (without -xx) the old drawable-ldpi folder ?
Dec 24 22:34:38 <lasserix> drawable with no qualifier?
Dec 24 22:34:41 <lasserix> it is the base folder
Dec 24 22:34:42 <neredsenvy> Yes
Dec 24 22:34:52 <lasserix> it is the ultimate fallback folder
Dec 24 22:35:10 <neredsenvy> Ok it will a problem then that I have lowest resolution images in there
Dec 24 22:35:34 <neredsenvy> I mistaken the folder for drawable-ldpi since that one does not get created anymore in AS
Dec 24 22:35:54 <lasserix> you can make it yourself
Dec 24 22:36:02 <lasserix> though i doubt any device will ever use it anymore
Dec 24 22:36:14 <TacticalJoke> Weird.  Seems that everything in that allocation thing is related to the UI.
Dec 24 22:36:23 <lasserix> that makes sense
Dec 24 22:36:32 <lasserix> you are probably doing something bad in your custom view class
Dec 24 22:36:47 <lasserix> post a screenshot of your alloc
Dec 24 22:37:09 <lasserix> http://snag.gy/
Dec 24 22:37:11 <TacticalJoke> The top calls are just related to layout inflation.
Dec 24 22:37:16 <neredsenvy> What kind of res should I put in drawable then ?
Dec 24 22:37:16 <TacticalJoke> And that's happening as little as possible.
Dec 24 22:37:17 <lasserix> you can printscreen and crop it
Dec 24 22:37:37 <lasserix> this is when you are seeing the gc calls in your logcat?
Dec 24 22:37:58 <lasserix> can you post that custom class again?
Dec 24 22:38:05 <TacticalJoke> Which class?
Dec 24 22:38:05 <lasserix> neredsenvy: for what?
Dec 24 22:38:31 <neredsenvy> nevermind
Dec 24 22:38:35 <g00s> TacticalJoke were you asking about recusrion and the stack size last week ?
Dec 24 22:38:41 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Dec 24 22:38:57 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: whichever is calling the layout inflation in your alloc
Dec 24 22:38:57 <g00s> i just came across a post on antrl where they were trying it on android, and it was blowing up
Dec 24 22:39:15 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: do you see any hiccup as a result of the gc calls?
Dec 24 22:39:55 <g00s> i guess they use recursion for the lookahead, and in cases where there is lots of lookahead the parser blows up the stack
Dec 24 22:40:04 <TacticalJoke> No, lasserix.
Dec 24 22:40:09 <TacticalJoke> Though it might be hard to notice.
Dec 24 22:40:17 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: then you are probably fine
Dec 24 22:40:36 <lasserix> if you really want to optimze thjen you have to look in your code for any unnecessary object creation
Dec 24 22:40:51 <lasserix> for instance, anywhere you create strings, use a string builder
Dec 24 22:41:05 <JakeWharton> easy on the generalizations there
Dec 24 22:41:08 <lasserix> and then use the string builder as a char sequence (ie 0, length)
Dec 24 22:41:10 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  http://pastebin.com/4aVJrhvF
Dec 24 22:41:20 <TacticalJoke> That's not great code, though, since I haven't extracted those strings yet.
Dec 24 22:41:34 <JakeWharton> you don't need try/finally in the constructor
Dec 24 22:41:35 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, I know about StringBuilder stuff and so on.
Dec 24 22:41:54 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: for instance, can you reuse any of these span objects?
Dec 24 22:42:11 <lasserix> ie use DI to create them once and reuse them
Dec 24 22:42:23 <TacticalJoke> Okay, I did wonder about that try..finally (got that from the official tutorial).
Dec 24 22:42:28 <JakeWharton> caching getPaddingXxx() isn't smart. padding is applied after fields are initialized
Dec 24 22:42:31 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  I'm creating them as little as possible.
Dec 24 22:42:55 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: i think calling recycle on the typedarray per view may invoke the GC calls you are seeing
Dec 24 22:43:10 <lasserix> since recycle is freeing them up, and then you have a ton of these views calling recycle
Dec 24 22:43:13 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  Isn't that initializer running after the superclass has initialized?
Dec 24 22:43:52 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: for instance, textSize tetColor aren't these the same for all your views?
Dec 24 22:43:55 <JakeWharton> even still, that means i can no longer use programmatic APIs to modify the padding
Dec 24 22:44:04 <lasserix> don't get them each time, only get them once and DI them
Dec 24 22:44:06 <TacticalJoke> Oh, true.
Dec 24 22:44:19 <JakeWharton> that seems a bit extreme...
Dec 24 22:44:23 <JakeWharton> this isn't the type of code for which allocations are high
Dec 24 22:44:52 <lasserix> JakeWharton: if you are scrolling through a list of 300 elements, and each is calling recycle in its constructor wouldn't that invoke the gc?
Dec 24 22:44:58 <lasserix> *frequently
Dec 24 22:45:02 <lasserix> as you are scrolling through it
Dec 24 22:45:09 <JakeWharton> views are reused
Dec 24 22:46:12 <DrDroid> Merry xmas guys
Dec 24 22:46:24 <JakeWharton> same to you, doc
Dec 24 22:46:50 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: other than that which Jake is saying probably wouldn't be a problem the only thing i can see is getAuthor getScore / getBody are those returning new strings?
Dec 24 22:47:18 <TacticalJoke> Oh, no.  Just references to existing strings.
Dec 24 22:47:38 <TacticalJoke> The bodies and so on should be in memory a single time from the very beginning.
Dec 24 22:47:39 <lasserix> whats the adapter look like?
Dec 24 22:47:41 <TacticalJoke> No duplication whatsoever.
Dec 24 22:48:30 <lasserix> do these gc calls happen as you scroll up and down?
Dec 24 22:48:45 <lasserix> well anyways unless you are seeing hiccups its probably premature optimization
Dec 24 22:49:09 <TacticalJoke> They happen very, very rarely with scrolling.
Dec 24 22:49:19 <TacticalJoke> In fact, possibly almost never.
Dec 24 22:49:22 <lasserix> oh
Dec 24 22:49:33 <lasserix> so when is it happenning? just when the app loads the first time?
Dec 24 22:50:53 <TacticalJoke> When a comment listing is downloaded, I'm getting GC_FOR_ALLOC messages about one in three times.
Dec 24 22:50:58 <TacticalJoke> With 70ms of lag or so each time.
Dec 24 22:51:08 <DrDroid> Hi I'm having real problems trying to setup my .bashrc with the paths needed for a cordova setup. I have a pastebin ready for anyone to take a look at.
Dec 24 22:51:30 <TacticalJoke> Here's the adapter, but it's really nothing much: http://pastebin.com/2LXy7R2Q
Dec 24 22:52:40 <TacticalJoke> Oops, that's a slightly older version.  (But the same applies to that version.)
Dec 24 22:52:44 <TacticalJoke> I had a different branch checked out.
Dec 24 22:54:32 <lasserix> so i am guessing the downloaded content is being reclaimed?
Dec 24 22:54:36 <lasserix> after you parse it?
Dec 24 22:55:15 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: you can do EnclosingActivityClass.this instead of passing in context if its inner class of activity
Dec 24 22:55:20 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, that is a good question.  It's not being reclaimed while that activity is showing.
Dec 24 22:55:30 <TacticalJoke> That activity is (indirectly) holding onto the entire comment list.
Dec 24 22:55:38 <TacticalJoke> Oh, it's not an inner class.
Dec 24 22:56:38 <lasserix> oh nm
Dec 24 22:56:40 <lasserix> o ok
Dec 24 22:56:48 <TacticalJoke> Since I'm streaming the JSON, I can't see what's being reclaimed at the start of the activity.
Dec 24 22:57:52 <TacticalJoke> As far as I know, the data (e.g., a comment's body) is going into memory one time and not being seen as collectible until the activity is finished.
Dec 24 22:58:19 <TacticalJoke> I guess what might be being collected is the data I'm skipping over (which nevertheless has to be read).
Dec 24 22:58:33 <TacticalJoke> But that's tiny compared to comment bodies and stuff.
Dec 24 22:59:40 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, it's probably premature optimization.  I see no lag whatsoever outside of ListView shenanigans.
Dec 24 22:59:44 <TacticalJoke> Or TextView shenanigans.
Dec 24 22:59:48 <TacticalJoke> Also, downloading is insanely fast.
Dec 24 23:00:03 <TacticalJoke> Though I'm used to a client that doesn't use SPDY and OkHttp and so on.
Dec 24 23:00:16 <TacticalJoke> It uses the old HttpClient, I think.
Dec 24 23:01:24 <lasserix> i feel like the streamed data is elgible for collection once you parse it, as the parsed result is not the stream itself?
Dec 24 23:01:32 <lasserix> heh
Dec 24 23:02:59 <TacticalJoke> True.  Though I'm holding onto most of it.
Dec 24 23:03:14 <lasserix> what does that mean?
Dec 24 23:03:39 <TacticalJoke> I think that not much is eligible for collection until I close the comment-thingy-activity.
Dec 24 23:04:37 <TacticalJoke> For example, every comment body is referenced.  No comment body can be collected until the activity is closed.
Dec 24 23:05:33 <TacticalJoke> It's Christmas in 55 minutes here.  :)
Dec 24 23:05:48 <TacticalJoke> Religious music just came on TV.
Dec 24 23:06:01 <TacticalJoke> That's the one thing I like about religion: the music.
Dec 24 23:06:53 <JakeWharton> i like the presents and free days off work
Dec 24 23:07:17 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.  :)
Dec 24 23:10:10 <TacticalJoke> Did you create Square, JakeWharton?  Or did you join them?  I tried googling one time and couldn't find out.
Dec 24 23:10:20 <JakeWharton> joined
Dec 24 23:10:28 <TacticalJoke> K.
Dec 24 23:13:22 <TacticalJoke> Man, I hate Yoda conditions.
Dec 24 23:14:26 <TacticalJoke> What does anyone gain from "if (null != foo) { bar(); }"?
Dec 24 23:14:48 <csst0111> TacticalJoke, you didnt ask the *critical* question : how many JakeWharton's exist ?? :P
Dec 24 23:23:29 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  The Gson streaming thing throws an IllegalStateException if it didn't encounter what was expected.  Wish it threw something more specific.
Dec 24 23:24:26 <TacticalJoke> I guess I could try to catch that as early as possible and rewrap it in something more specific.
Dec 24 23:26:37 <capella> meh ... much prefer |if (foo != null) {| over |if (null != foo) {| ... the last one is checking to see if null is not-something ... we know what it is, it's null
Dec 24 23:28:59 <capella> we've got a guy who keeps inserting that pattern in our code, everytime I see it my slapping hand starts twitching ...
Dec 24 23:30:17 <TacticalJoke> I don't see why people do it.
Dec 24 23:30:20 <TacticalJoke> What is gained?
Dec 24 23:30:37 <TacticalJoke> Gained is what.
Dec 24 23:32:41 <JakeWharton> brillaitn
Dec 24 23:32:49 <JakeWharton> brilliant
Dec 24 23:32:51 <JakeWharton> stupid mobile keyboards
Dec 24 23:33:17 <TacticalJoke> According to WP, the point is to get the compiler to flag errors like "if (x = 5)" (because "if (5 = x)" doesn't compile).
Dec 24 23:33:39 <TacticalJoke> But that's a bad reason for making code unreadable, IMO.
Dec 24 23:34:50 <TacticalJoke> And so specific.  "if (y = x)" would compile fine.
Dec 24 23:35:21 <regreddit> i have never ever written code for android that actually freezes the debugger until just now. something to do with the SQLite driver
Dec 24 23:36:42 <regreddit> you think JakeWharton would be hanging out in #android-dev if he created Square?
Dec 24 23:37:34 <TacticalJoke> I don't see why not.
Dec 24 23:37:43 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: IntelliJ flags x = 5, if i remember correctly
Dec 24 23:38:03 <capella> intelliJ ftw *again* \o/
Dec 24 23:38:16 <TacticalJoke> I think Eclipse does, too.  (I'd check, but I just had to close it because my 200+ Google Chrome tabs are destroying my speed.)
Dec 24 23:38:19 <dauntless2425> Hey guys
Dec 24 23:38:33 <dauntless2425> Is there a way to run an intent or know when a notification has been removed from the tray by a user?
Dec 24 23:39:08 <dauntless2425> Notification listener service seems to do this but requires explicit user enabling to work.
Dec 24 23:39:31 <JakeWharton> dauntless2425: there's a delete pendingintent that you can set
Dec 24 23:40:12 <dauntless2425> Is there a code example i can see of this please?
Dec 24 23:40:36 <JakeWharton> uh
Dec 24 23:40:38 <JakeWharton> https://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Notification.Builder.html#setDeleteIntent(android.app.PendingIntent)
Dec 24 23:40:47 <JakeWharton> + a normal PendingIntent that fires back to your app
Dec 24 23:41:00 <JakeWharton> similar to what you would set for a click or notification action
Dec 24 23:41:16 <dauntless2425> Ah OK thanks
Dec 24 23:48:57 <neredsenvy> My drawable files should all be named the same right ?
Dec 24 23:49:23 <neredsenvy> Map marker icon seems to be loading larger than needed graphics : /
Dec 24 23:49:34 <JakeWharton> if they are the same asset in different density buckets then yes
Dec 24 23:50:46 <neredsenvy> Maybe it's a genymotion problem for some reason it loading very big icons
Dec 24 23:52:46 <DrDroid> Hi can anyone take at this http://pastebin.com/RYQKDNVu and tell me why I'm still error messages about Android is not in the variable path???
Dec 24 23:53:44 <Odaym> dude
Dec 24 23:53:49 <Odaym> don't paste your whole bashrc
Dec 24 23:54:10 <Odaym> did you do "source .bashrc"?
Dec 24 23:54:43 <DrDroid> Odaym I've reached the point where I don't care anymore :-(
Dec 24 23:54:52 <Odaym> then why asking
Dec 24 23:55:01 <blusky> Oo
Dec 24 23:55:20 <Odaym> giving up before starting development? :OP
Dec 24 23:55:21 <Odaym> :P*
Dec 24 23:56:07 <Odaym> the way you've declared them seems just fine, and sourcing the file will tell you if there were syntax errors
Dec 24 23:56:09 <Odaym> it should work
Dec 24 23:56:14 <Odaym> unless the path is incorrect
Dec 24 23:56:25 <Odaym> why in some place you have $home?
Dec 24 23:56:44 <Odaym> there's no such thing as $home I think
Dec 24 23:57:03 <blusky> +1
Dec 24 23:57:30 <blusky> same for "~/home/nigel/"
Dec 24 23:57:37 <blusky> i'm not sure you want that
Dec 24 23:57:42 <Odaym> yea the ~ is already home..
Dec 24 23:58:09 <DrDroid> I'm listening
Dec 24 23:58:18 <Odaym> either from the root you work your way up to where your nigel home folder is, or you just do ~/Documents/etc...
Dec 24 23:58:49 <blusky> s/$home/~/, and s/~\/home\/nigel/~/g
Dec 24 23:59:24 <blusky> try "print ~" in a shell, you'll understand
Dec 24 23:59:33 <capella> $HOME/ ... stupid case sensitive OS
Dec 24 23:59:37 <blusky> *echo, not print
Dec 25 00:00:51 <DrDroid> ok got /home/nigelsmith
Dec 25 00:01:07 <Odaym> that should do it then
Dec 25 00:01:10 <Odaym> save and source the file
Dec 25 00:01:18 <Odaym> then issue "android"
Dec 25 00:02:15 <Odaym> it worked! thanks guys!
Dec 25 00:02:17 <Odaym> oh sorry
Dec 25 00:02:20 <Odaym> I thought I was you
Dec 25 00:02:24 <DrDroid> Thanks guys now I can back to these two ladys :-)
Dec 25 00:02:36 <Odaym> what?
Dec 25 00:02:39 <capella> pics or it didnt happen
Dec 25 00:02:41 <neredsenvy> *cough* Windows FTW *cough*
Dec 25 00:03:09 <Odaym> haha
Dec 25 00:03:10 <Odaym> nice
Dec 25 00:03:13 <Odaym> merry christmas
Dec 25 00:03:18 <Odaym> codeeveryday
Dec 25 00:04:08 <DrDroid> Ladys here I come hic
Dec 25 00:04:22 <Odaym> what the hell are you on, lol
Dec 25 00:04:45 <capella> *hic* Yesh, itsh shtarting out that way 🍺
Dec 25 00:04:57 <Odaym> I haven't had a drink in 2 years
Dec 25 00:05:03 <Odaym> same day like today I stopped
Dec 25 00:05:11 <capella> I quit 5 years ago in Feb :)
Dec 25 00:05:18 <Odaym> 5, nice
Dec 25 00:05:30 <capella> It was time, I was full :D
Dec 25 00:05:33 <Odaym> yep
Dec 25 00:05:35 <Odaym> life's so much better
Dec 25 00:06:01 <capella> Though I do miss warm Cognac in the winter
Dec 25 00:06:11 <Odaym> meh
Dec 25 00:06:15 <Odaym> yea maybe
Dec 25 00:06:17 <capella> Even cheap Hennessey
Dec 25 00:06:21 <capella> :p
Dec 25 00:06:33 <Odaym> well, people like us can't play friendly with it
Dec 25 00:06:37 <Odaym> we abuse
Dec 25 00:07:07 <DrDroid> Just look at the size of my adaptor class;-)
Dec 25 00:07:16 <Odaym> adapter
Dec 25 00:07:19 <Odaym> and "ladies"
Dec 25 00:07:56 <DrDroid> For real
Dec 25 00:07:58 <Odaym> enough sexual innuendoes DrDroid :P
Dec 25 00:09:31 <Odaym> sometimes after discussions with people about why I stopped and how I don't miss it anymore, I dream about it on the night of those discussions, capella
Dec 25 00:09:54 <Odaym> that I've picked it up again, and even in the dream the feeling is so defeated when you look back at the years that you've went without it
Dec 25 00:10:10 <groxx> regreddit: woah, I thought it was just me.  I've been getting a frozen debugger on AS when near DB code too.
Dec 25 00:11:30 <regreddit> Interesting. Usually i'll get an overflow if I did soemthing stupid like forget moveNext on a curosr, but this one just goes into a black hole as soon as the driver opens the db
Dec 25 00:11:47 <regreddit> and was working 4 hours ago
Dec 25 00:12:01 <regreddit> maybe corrupt db or something
Dec 25 00:12:11 <Odaym> I use Monitor when AS stops showing things properly
Dec 25 00:12:49 <Odaym> sometimes stops showing logcat
Dec 25 00:21:19 <Odaym> well it's christmas, so anything goes
Dec 25 00:21:25 <Odaym> android-offtopic doesn't want to engage
Dec 25 00:21:29 <dauntless2425> Awesome that worked jake.
Dec 25 00:21:47 <Odaym> today I was offered a job as a backend php developer
Dec 25 00:22:15 <Odaym> I've been working with Android for about ...1.5 years, and right now I'm doing that for a successful startup
Dec 25 00:22:36 <Odaym> so I thought what the hell, why not! why box myself in behind a fanboyish mindset that just understands "Android"
Dec 25 00:24:37 <capella-s3> backend pgp developer...  do you wear the bottom half of a horse costume? :p
Dec 25 00:25:22 <Odaym> well, you see the thing is that all the experience I have as a developer has come from companies who have put me in the lead from the beginning
Dec 25 00:25:23 <capella-s3> (android-dev-offtopic)
Dec 25 00:25:32 <Odaym> told you above, they dont want to engage
Dec 25 00:25:37 <Odaym> and it's christmas, so we can talk here :)
Dec 25 00:25:40 <Odaym> if you like, of course
Dec 25 00:25:48 <lasserix> did this channel get forked?
Dec 25 00:25:54 <Odaym> haha
Dec 25 00:25:59 <Odaym> christmas-nightly
Dec 25 00:26:33 <Odaym> so my experience is mine alone, I might have built so many apps but even decent best practices I've never learned
Dec 25 00:26:36 <Odaym> I dont even know how to test
Dec 25 00:26:46 <capella-s3> fail
Dec 25 00:27:03 <Odaym> cause no one told me how..you can build yourself up so much before you realize you need to be taught
Dec 25 00:27:15 <Odaym> never had a mentor or anything, always "Oday will build this for us!"
Dec 25 00:27:43 <Odaym> these guys however, they are an American company
Dec 25 00:27:57 <Odaym> they have peer review, people who have been coding for 10+ years, etc..
Dec 25 00:28:07 <Odaym> I will gladly be dwarfed
Dec 25 00:28:07 <capella-s3> get used to code reviews
Dec 25 00:28:39 <Odaym> I'd rather be able to write 1 solid line of code then write a whole app whose code ..isn't solid
Dec 25 00:29:24 <Odaym> not that that has ever stopped me from doing and doing, but stuff like writing cleaner code, that stuff has to be taught I think
Dec 25 00:29:57 <Odaym> the thing that made me resist at first was "No, I'm an Android guy!"
Dec 25 00:30:14 <Odaym> but that thing is the worst that can happen to someone at an early age, you really need to expose yourself to everything
Dec 25 00:31:05 <Odaym> plus this startup doesn't have social security, life insurance, medical
Dec 25 00:31:11 <Odaym> they just give me my paycheck
Dec 25 00:31:18 <Odaym> they can tell me to leave tomorrow if they wanted
Dec 25 00:40:15 <lasserix> Is there a number picker in lollipop?
Dec 25 00:40:28 <Odaym> my numberpicker stayed the same
Dec 25 00:41:14 <Odaym> yea I'll be quiet
Dec 25 00:41:34 <lasserix> nm
Dec 25 00:41:58 <lasserix> Odaym: you sound like you been hitting the eggnog :p
Dec 25 00:42:11 <Odaym> ehhhh........no
Dec 25 00:42:15 <Odaym> something else ;P
Dec 25 00:44:56 <lasserix> oh you should design some ui
Dec 25 00:45:07 <Odaym> lol
Dec 25 00:54:14 <groxx> Odaym: code reviews are nice.  definitely keeps our quality up.
Dec 25 00:54:37 <Odaym> yea, by others who are more experienced
Dec 25 00:54:38 <groxx> also reduces our bus-factor :)
Dec 25 00:54:42 <Odaym> also
Dec 25 00:56:37 <groxx> even if not more experienced, it still forces you to think about things differently, and/or explain it to someone else.  enforced, high-quality rubber ducking.
Dec 25 00:57:30 <Odaym> ah yea
Dec 25 00:57:35 <Odaym> that someone will is going to read this
Dec 25 01:03:28 <phpwn> hi
Dec 25 01:03:47 <phpwn> i'm having some trouble understanding some code,
Dec 25 01:03:51 <phpwn> view.FindViewById<TextView>(Resource.Id.Text1).Text = x.Name;
Dec 25 01:04:02 <phpwn> my IDE shows Resource.Id.Text1 as red, not existing
Dec 25 01:04:22 <phpwn> (this is in C#, xamarin)
Dec 25 01:04:43 <Odaym> not the place to ask that
Dec 25 01:05:02 <phpwn> ok, thx
Dec 25 01:05:11 <Odaym> but it seems like that resource is not defined in the XML
Dec 25 01:05:19 <Napalm> phpwn: the Resource class's are auto generated from the resources. check Xamarin IDE itself.
Dec 25 01:05:34 <Napalm> phpwn: yea whats your layout you are loading? pastebin it
Dec 25 01:05:55 <phpwn> 1 second
Dec 25 01:06:00 <capella-s3> this is android-dev, but we don't get a lot if c#
Dec 25 01:06:05 <Odaym> well, good night
Dec 25 01:06:14 <phpwn> https://github.com/xamarin/xamarin-forms-samples/blob/master/WorkingWithListviewNative/Droid/Resources/layout/NativeAndroidCell.axml
Dec 25 01:06:30 <phpwn> i'm trying to use this code
Dec 25 01:06:45 <phpwn> so that xml appears to have the resource Text1
Dec 25 01:06:53 <phpwn> android:id="@+id/Text1"
Dec 25 01:06:56 <phpwn> is that correct?
Dec 25 01:07:00 <Napalm> yes
Dec 25 01:07:16 <Napalm> phpwn: theres no problem with that, looks like its your IDE or use of Xamarin.. try finding the IDE button/switch/toggle to compile the resources
Dec 25 01:07:27 <phpwn> ah I understand now
Dec 25 01:07:30 <phpwn> thank you Napalm
Dec 25 01:07:48 <Napalm> np
Dec 25 01:18:38 <lasserix> is there any way to generate unique ids in code?
Dec 25 01:19:04 <lasserix> instead of using getResources...
Dec 25 01:28:26 <csst0111> lasserix, you mean like : http://stackoverflow.com/a/15442898/423980
Dec 25 01:28:32 <Jittler> Anyone got a DAO/ORM suggestion? Just reading and displaying stuff from the db and not adding/updating/etc.
Dec 25 01:29:16 <Jittler> Multiple tables, several many-to-many relations.. not looking to maintain them all in custom code if I can do it simply w/a library.
Dec 25 01:49:49 <dauntless2425> Hmm. We cant set a notification content title with the R class?
Dec 25 01:53:27 <dauntless2425> Whoops figured it out
Dec 25 02:01:47 <btnClickMe> was in earlier but gave up for a bit. I'm trying to make an activity display a website on 80% of screen and have a button underneath. I can get the website to show 100% but not partial
Dec 25 02:19:01 <Rufflewind> Does /* package */ mean anything significant?  Or is just for documentation?
Dec 25 02:23:59 <JakeWharton> It means nothing
Dec 25 02:34:38 <btnClickMe> webview still takes up whole activity. Any ideas: http://i.imgur.com/gZHhprH.png
Dec 25 02:40:40 <Napalm> btnClickMe: hey, still trying to do that app?
Dec 25 02:40:58 <btnClickMe> yeah
Dec 25 02:41:21 <Napalm> pastebin that entire layout
Dec 25 02:41:32 <btnClickMe> Ill bin the layout and associated ava
Dec 25 02:41:34 <btnClickMe> java
Dec 25 02:41:40 <Napalm> what?
Dec 25 02:41:40 <Napalm> why
Dec 25 02:41:42 <Napalm> its fine
Dec 25 02:41:50 <Napalm> ohh
Dec 25 02:41:51 <Napalm> sure
Dec 25 02:41:54 <Napalm> ignore that
Dec 25 02:41:56 <Napalm> lol
Dec 25 02:42:38 <btnClickMe> http://pastebin.com/7Gn7DjU0
Dec 25 02:43:27 <dauntless2425> How do you guys get ideas for apps?
Dec 25 02:43:27 <btnClickMe> and http://pastebin.com/HZhfZVqQ
Dec 25 02:43:55 <btnClickMe> This one is for my brother-in-law. He needs a specific purpose for work.
Dec 25 02:44:53 <btnClickMe> I think my problem is the webview in xml not being the same as webview in java
Dec 25 02:45:34 <Napalm> no
Dec 25 02:45:37 <Fah> Why are you passing WebView a reference to this?
Dec 25 02:46:05 <btnClickMe> what should I pass it?
Dec 25 02:46:15 <Fah> what does it do?
Dec 25 02:46:29 <btnClickMe> loads a website
Dec 25 02:46:37 <Fah> into what? the ui?
Dec 25 02:46:47 <btnClickMe> yeah
Dec 25 02:47:36 <Napalm> btnClickMe: http://pastebin.com/Xy1nctTR
Dec 25 02:47:38 <btnClickMe> the webview doc uses this http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html
Dec 25 02:47:50 <Fah> you're not supposed to really do that. You should be kicking off a task and then using onPostExecute to update the ui
Dec 25 02:48:03 <Fah> Check out http://developer.android.com/guide/components/processes-and-threads.html
Dec 25 02:48:15 <Napalm> Fah: no
Dec 25 02:48:18 <Fah> no?
Dec 25 02:48:59 <Napalm> Fah: he should not be kicking off a task and using onPostExecute
Dec 25 02:49:04 <Fah> ok, ignore me. i came into the conversation late
Dec 25 02:49:25 <Napalm> Fah: also, if your using AsyncTask.. you might want to rethink that.
Dec 25 02:49:52 <Fah> it depends on if you want to block or not
Dec 25 02:50:17 <Napalm> Fah: not really, im talking about other reasons
Dec 25 02:50:55 <btnClickMe> Simple explanation: Button on activity A loads activity B and passes it a URL. Activity B should then display the URL in a webview but only take up ~80% of the screen because there needs to be a button underneath it
Dec 25 02:51:25 <Fah> well, I'd be happy to hear more but i've probably distracted enough from this
Dec 25 02:52:06 <Napalm> btnClickMe: did you use the layout?
Dec 25 02:53:44 <btnClickMe> searching told me to try a linear layout with a weight of 80 and height of 0dp so that's what you see in the bin. The button is part of the outer relative layout and the webview is in the linear that is supposed to be 80
Dec 25 02:53:51 <btnClickMe> percent of the activity
Dec 25 02:55:09 <Napalm> btnClickMe: did you the layout gave you
Dec 25 02:56:45 <btnClickMe> hang on 1 min
Dec 25 02:57:20 <btnClickMe> generating...
Dec 25 02:58:47 <btnClickMe> testing it now
Dec 25 02:59:09 <btnClickMe> same issue as before
Dec 25 02:59:18 <Napalm> what issue?
Dec 25 02:59:41 <btnClickMe> webview takes up the whole activity
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 25 02:59:58 2014