**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 10 02:59:59 2015
Jan 10 03:29:20 <lasserix> http://ssp.impulsetrain.com/porterduff.html
Jan 10 03:29:28 <lasserix> two really good reference images
Jan 10 03:29:46 <lasserix> poreter duff combos and porter duff with blending combos
Jan 10 03:56:29 <Tricknology> Hye guys, when MapsV2 sets the marker that is my location.. how is it getting that location?
Jan 10 03:56:36 <napster> Do we have any alternatives for momentJS on Android?
Jan 10 03:56:41 <Tricknology> because the way I'm getting it differs both in location and accuracy..
Jan 10 03:57:26 <Tricknology> derp.. mMap.getMyLocation();
Jan 10 04:04:05 <duncannz> Is it preferred to keep intent keys as static constants in the sending class or values in strings.xml? The android beginner tutorial uses constants, but I've seen code online that uses strings.xml (which also seems easier to me - having all the keys in one place). Is there a reason to use constants?
Jan 10 04:07:26 <JesusFreke> well, constants are (very slightly) more efficient
Jan 10 04:07:52 <JesusFreke> but not enough to matter, unless you're using them a *lot* in a tight loop or something
Jan 10 04:08:04 <duncannz> alright well I'm not doing that just yet haha
Jan 10 04:08:20 <duncannz> so for just passing basic data between activities, it's fine to just use strings.xml?
Jan 10 04:08:36 <JesusFreke> I would still suggest using a constant
Jan 10 04:08:45 <duncannz> ok why?
Jan 10 04:09:18 <JesusFreke> because it's.. more direct. easier to understand, with less confusion. Especially because strings in strings.xml might have different translated values, etc.
Jan 10 04:10:09 <JesusFreke> So I would create a static final String field with the key, probably in the receiving class
Jan 10 04:10:17 <g00s> JesusFreke resources are for localization
Jan 10 04:10:20 <g00s> oops,
Jan 10 04:10:23 <g00s> LOL
Jan 10 04:10:24 <duncannz> the convention seems to be to have the constant in the class of the activity that's *sending* the data, right? that makes it a bit confusing when I'm passing data along three activities. I know you're probably right but would like to hear the reasons
Jan 10 04:10:26 <g00s> duncannz ^^^
Jan 10 04:10:46 <JesusFreke> It should be in the method receiving the intent, imo
Jan 10 04:10:48 <duncannz> receiving? well in either case I have no set class that is sending or receiving
Jan 10 04:10:49 <JesusFreke> it's like a method call
Jan 10 04:11:02 <JesusFreke> you don't document the arguments at the point when you're calling the method
Jan 10 04:11:15 <JesusFreke> you document them at the point where you declare the method
Jan 10 04:11:30 <duncannz> 1 sends to 2, 2 sends to 3, 3 sends to 4. so would you put a constant for the key in 2, 3 and 4??
Jan 10 04:12:40 <JesusFreke> If there's a single common key that you use in multiple places, I would put the constant in some utility class specifically for that purpose
Jan 10 04:13:08 <JesusFreke> it just depends on how you want to abstract it, etc.
Jan 10 04:14:47 <duncannz> hmm that doesn't seem to make sense for my use case. maybe you can suggest a better way. Case: I have a Uri that is selected in activity A, then it is passed to activity B which processes it, then activity B sends the Uri and a String to activity C. It doesn't seem right to me to make a utility class, but it's also unclear which class should have the constant in
Jan 10 04:15:29 <g00s> duncannz a good chunk of android is throwing strings around
Jan 10 04:15:34 <JesusFreke> Or just put the constant in all of them
Jan 10 04:15:36 <g00s> and bundles
Jan 10 04:16:04 <JesusFreke> but.. that somewhat defeats the purpose of declaring it as a constant in the first place :)
Jan 10 04:16:44 <duncannz> JesusFreke: so put the constant in activity B and C. alright. finally, does it matter if the key's value is the same for those constants in activities B and C?
Jan 10 04:17:20 <duncannz> eg in activity B: public static final String SONG_URI_KEY = "com.example.foo.SONG_URI";  now can I do the exact same in activity C or not?
Jan 10 04:17:22 <JesusFreke> it should be the same value if it's the same "thing"
Jan 10 04:17:44 <duncannz> ok, thanks for your help :)
Jan 10 04:26:02 <g00s> TacticalJoke http://www.bignerdranch.com/blog/all-in-together-android-studio-gradle-and-robolectric/
Jan 10 04:30:16 <TacticalJoke> Interesting.  That looks like the "Use a pure-Java module for code that doesn't touch Android" approach.
Jan 10 04:30:28 <TacticalJoke> duncannz:  Personally, I use string literals.  Simpler, IMO.
Jan 10 04:30:49 <duncannz> TacticalJoke: alright. do you namespace your keys?
Jan 10 04:31:07 <TacticalJoke> Nope.
Jan 10 04:31:11 <TacticalJoke> I'll show an example.  One sec.
Jan 10 04:31:15 <duncannz> thanks
Jan 10 04:31:30 <g00s> http://phandroid.com/2015/01/09/microsoft-surface-with-android-remix-tablet/
Jan 10 04:31:47 <TacticalJoke> Here's what I'm writing right now:  http://pastebin.com/yHLFkfcD
Jan 10 04:31:50 <TacticalJoke> Note that "url" string.
Jan 10 04:31:58 <duncannz> the android beginner tutorial had a few weird things in it. for example it teaches you to set a textView as the contentview rather than actual making layouts. it led me astray a bit.
Jan 10 04:32:10 <TacticalJoke> It's all in one file, of course.
Jan 10 04:32:36 <g00s> duncannz that is fine though. its just a view
Jan 10 04:32:58 <duncannz> I know it's fine but it's confusing for noobs (why isn't this layout changing anything??)
Jan 10 04:33:42 <TacticalJoke> If you use that "static Intent createIntent" method, I think string literals can make code simple.
Jan 10 04:34:01 <TacticalJoke> It's possible that you have to perform shotgun surgery, but I prefer that to extra constants, personally.  (Some people probably hate it.)
Jan 10 04:34:36 <duncannz> what about not using a createIntent method? is it still safe to not namespace the key?
Jan 10 04:35:39 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, I think it's safe to not namespace keys for Intents passing within your app.
Jan 10 04:35:53 <duncannz> great
Jan 10 04:36:06 <TacticalJoke> I'm not sure why that Android tutorial uses a namespace.  Seems wasteful.
Jan 10 04:36:31 <TacticalJoke> I mean, sure, if you were responding to Intents from *other* apps then you'd need to use a namespace.  But not otherwise.
Jan 10 04:50:55 <TacticalJoke> My Tesco Hudl 2 is so quiet in LogCat.  It's kinda refreshing.
Jan 10 05:17:52 <PersonX> I have this thee layouts - first one contains a listview with unique item on which when an item is clicked it is sent to the second layout containing another listview containing multiple items from the same unique id. now I want to make the item selected in the first layout to be highlighted in the second layout, how do I do that?
Jan 10 05:18:36 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: Did you manage to add the item to the other list view?
Jan 10 05:19:34 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, the other list view is populated from a datavase using the unique id from the first selection
Jan 10 05:20:25 <AndreYonadam> Would you keep track of the ids in the other list view to highlight it based on the original listview?
Jan 10 05:21:10 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: Found this. Not sure if it helps: http://stackoverflow.com/a/8675526/2109184
Jan 10 05:24:13 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, I would like to. i'm currently doing this - in the mainactivity [first list view] onitemclick - intent.putExtra(KEY_POSITION, position); and then in the second activity I call position = intent.getIntExtra(KEY_POSITION, 0); lvDetail.setSelection(position); but this doesn't work correctly. If I select third item from the first list then the third item is highlighted in the second layout even if the item I select in the first listview is th
Jan 10 05:24:14 <PersonX> e first item in the second listview.
Jan 10 05:25:35 <AndreYonadam> If you change the position to a specific number like 1 what will happen?
Jan 10 05:25:50 <AndreYonadam> Will it still highlight the third item in the second layout?
Jan 10 05:26:11 <PersonX> no then it will select the first item in the second list.
Jan 10 05:26:31 <PersonX> this is working list its supposed to but that's not what I want.
Jan 10 05:30:57 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, first layout clicking third item - http://picpaste.com/screenshot33-1Bpvo7kn.png second item also showing up with the third item being selected - http://picpaste.com/screenshot34-qJHfoD42.png instead i want the second list to highlight - http://picpaste.com/screenshot35-O8SJpa2c.png
Jan 10 05:32:05 <PersonX> *second list also showing up with third item being selected
Jan 10 05:32:06 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: Let me ask you something. What's similar in all of these items?
Jan 10 05:32:35 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, they're all posts saved in a DB.
Jan 10 05:32:46 <AndreYonadam> Okay if there is an item seperating them
Jan 10 05:32:51 <AndreYonadam> And its going to stay that way
Jan 10 05:33:03 <AndreYonadam> Just du
Jan 10 05:33:05 <AndreYonadam> *do
Jan 10 05:33:14 <AndreYonadam> intent.putExtra(KEY_POSITION, position);
Jan 10 05:33:25 <AndreYonadam> if(position >1){
Jan 10 05:35:55 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, do you completely understand what I'm trying to accomplish?
Jan 10 05:36:03 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: Yeah.
Jan 10 05:36:11 <AndreYonadam> I'm just thinking about some thing
Jan 10 05:36:55 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, i want if '3making maggi' was selected in the first listview then the second listview should also highlight the item with the text '3making maggi'.
Jan 10 05:38:51 <AndreYonadam> if(position >1){
Jan 10 05:38:51 <AndreYonadam> intent.putExtra(KEY_POSITION, (2*position)-position);
Jan 10 05:38:52 <AndreYonadam> }
Jan 10 05:38:57 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: That would be a quick fix.
Jan 10 05:39:20 <AndreYonadam> Not sure if that's the permanent solution your looking for.
Jan 10 05:39:25 <TacticalJoke> I guess the best solution would be to pass the ROWID (database ID) to the second activity.  The second activity finds this in the database and then finds the matching item in the ListView and highlights it.
Jan 10 05:39:37 <TacticalJoke> The common factor is the database ROWID.
Jan 10 05:39:45 <AndreYonadam> TacticalJoke: I was about to suggest that too. All database entries should have a unique key or like identifier
Jan 10 05:39:50 <AndreYonadam> You should be using that.
Jan 10 05:40:16 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, that's not the permanent solution for me. :/ the first row items will not always be alternative. I like what TacticalJoke is suggesting.
Jan 10 05:40:49 <PersonX> Yes I have the rowid but how do I use it to select an item in the second activity?
Jan 10 05:41:35 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, ^
Jan 10 05:41:37 <TacticalJoke> You have the ID of a database row?
Jan 10 05:41:41 <PersonX> yes
Jan 10 05:41:43 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: You would have to loop through the listview to see which one has that matching identifier
Jan 10 05:42:16 <PersonX> AndreYonadam, example code snippet please?
Jan 10 05:43:00 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: placeholder.findViewById(12);
Jan 10 05:43:42 <AndreYonadam> .setId(id);
Jan 10 05:43:56 <AndreYonadam> You can set and findTheViewById
Jan 10 05:44:04 <AndreYonadam> TacticalJoke: Could that conflict by anyway?
Jan 10 05:44:11 <AndreYonadam> With any other views?
Jan 10 05:45:00 <PersonX> lemme try looping through the listview. :)
Jan 10 05:45:25 <AndreYonadam> PersonX: Yeah you would have to do that. But you would also have to assign the ID to all the views before so you can select it later
Jan 10 05:45:27 <TacticalJoke> To be honest, I've not done database stuff with ListViews in Android, so I'm not cretain of the best solution.  But I'm inclined to say that any ID setting should apply to the data source the adapter has access to rather than to a View.
Jan 10 05:45:32 <TacticalJoke> certain*
Jan 10 05:46:40 <TacticalJoke> PersonX:  Just curious -- how are you figuring out the (database) row ID of a clicked item from the first ListView?
Jan 10 05:47:51 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, every listitem contains a hidden field with the ROWID
Jan 10 05:48:15 <TacticalJoke> What field is that?
Jan 10 05:49:16 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, "    <TextView
Jan 10 05:49:16 <PersonX>        android:id="@+id/wid"
Jan 10 05:49:16 <PersonX>         android:layout_width="fill_parent"
Jan 10 05:49:16 <PersonX>        android:layout_height="wrap_content"
Jan 10 05:49:16 <PersonX>        android:visibility="gone"
Jan 10 05:49:17 <PersonX>       />"
Jan 10 05:50:19 <PersonX> I can pass the id of the selected item to the second activity, now how do I use this ID to highlight it in the second list?
Jan 10 05:50:20 <TacticalJoke> There are better ways to store data than to use hidden TextViews.
Jan 10 05:51:05 <TacticalJoke> PersonX:  Could you post all the code?  Or is that not possible.
Jan 10 05:51:17 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, just a second.
Jan 10 05:51:39 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, do you want the layout too?
Jan 10 05:51:44 <TacticalJoke> Oh, no.
Jan 10 05:51:55 <PersonX> just the activities, right?
Jan 10 05:52:21 <TacticalJoke> Activities and relevant Adapters, I think.
Jan 10 05:58:44 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, MainActivity - http://paste.ubuntu.com/9703099/
Jan 10 06:00:33 <TacticalJoke> Couldn't you simply add a row-ID property to ListData?
Jan 10 06:01:38 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, I don't know how to do that. how do I do it?
Jan 10 06:02:45 <TacticalJoke> You already have setName, setStatus, etc.  Have getRowId (and maybe setRowId).
Jan 10 06:03:31 <TacticalJoke> Then, when they click, you get the row ID of the clicked item.  Send this to the second Activity.  The second Activity, if it has already set up row IDs for *its* items, could easily find the list item in question.
Jan 10 06:03:50 <TacticalJoke> Or, if it hasn't, it could query the database, I guess (though that seems less good).
Jan 10 06:04:47 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, how do I find the item through rowID in the second activity?
Jan 10 06:05:21 <TacticalJoke> The second Activity will have already filled its list with ListData items, each of which has the correct row ID already set.
Jan 10 06:05:39 <TacticalJoke> The second Activity just looks through to list to find the position of the item with a particular row ID.
Jan 10 06:06:12 <TacticalJoke> The second Activity has an ArrayList<ListData>, right?
Jan 10 06:07:38 <napster> Do we have any alternatives for momentJS on Android?
Jan 10 06:07:55 <PersonX> TacticalJoke, yes.
Jan 10 06:11:04 <shmoon_> bindService() makes use of Binders, does that mean IPC is involved in such a case when Service and calling Activity are in the same procesS?
Jan 10 06:11:28 <shmoon_> question seems stupid, but then I wonder why use Binders with bindServer() in same process as Bindrs are mostly used for IPC
Jan 10 06:13:34 <shmoon_> there's no code in bindService() http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/1.5_r4/android/content/Context.java#Context.bindService%28android.content.Intent%2Candroid.content.ServiceConnection%2Cint%29 ? o.O
Jan 10 06:27:48 <HevvyMetal> is there some reason that non technical people think that devs need to be treated like toddlers?
Jan 10 06:27:53 <HevvyMetal> i'm still tryin to understand why that is
Jan 10 06:30:01 <duncannz> is there a way to get a content: URI (or some Uri object suitable for a Cursor) out of the onReceive method in a downloadmanager receiver?
Jan 10 06:30:33 <shmoon_> HevvyMetal: toddlers as in?
Jan 10 06:30:51 <shmoon_> I've been treated by non technical people as if I do useless shit and I do things that arn't worthy enough
Jan 10 06:30:59 <HevvyMetal> shmoon_ toddlers as in oh, take this 3 days test
Jan 10 06:31:03 <HevvyMetal> oh, daily scrum
Jan 10 06:31:05 <HevvyMetal> oh prove this prove that
Jan 10 06:31:13 <HevvyMetal> do I ask my dentist to take a fucking test?
Jan 10 06:31:23 <HevvyMetal> does that make any sense shmoon_ or do I need to elaborate
Jan 10 06:31:43 <shmoon_> it does, but then its less of being treated as toddlers but more of being bossy, if you know what I mean
Jan 10 06:31:46 <HevvyMetal> devs are treated like lying incompetent slackers in business from what I can tell
Jan 10 06:31:51 <HevvyMetal> it's both
Jan 10 06:31:56 <shmoon_> they just don't understand the work we do and consider it as shit, I've been there so I can completely relate to you
Jan 10 06:31:58 <HevvyMetal> they want to be bossy AND treat devs like toddlers
Jan 10 06:32:14 <Sindustry> Corporations don't care about individuals
Jan 10 06:32:15 <HevvyMetal> and then they say oh we're a startup we can only pay $70k lol
Jan 10 06:32:22 <HevvyMetal> of course they don't and I don't care about them either
Jan 10 06:32:23 <shmoon_> I mean when they give instructions I think they're being bossy, but I've also been treated as an inferior
Jan 10 06:32:27 <Sindustry> ^^
Jan 10 06:32:30 <shmoon_> although I'm sure in a purely technical company that won't happen
Jan 10 06:32:42 <HevvyMetal> but if they dont care about the individuals then nothing good will happen
Jan 10 06:32:50 <Sindustry> ^
Jan 10 06:32:52 <shmoon_> people will respect each other as most of the work force will be comprised of technical guys/gals
Jan 10 06:32:53 <HevvyMetal> you can't treat creatves lik slave labor
Jan 10 06:33:03 <HevvyMetal> Sindustry say something don't just ^
Jan 10 06:33:14 <HevvyMetal> I think devs allow themselvs to be treated like shit and I think the industry needs to turn around
Jan 10 06:33:20 <shmoon_> ^ means he
Jan 10 06:33:22 <shmoon_> s agreeing with you
Jan 10 06:33:23 <HevvyMetal> I'm tired of being the only one standing up against this shit
Jan 10 06:33:30 <Sindustry> I'm going to say the best thing I could right now
Jan 10 06:33:42 <HevvyMetal> he could be agreeing with anthing and I dont think a +1 or ^ means anything
Jan 10 06:33:46 <Sindustry> Good night lol (over -24hrs sleep)
Jan 10 06:33:48 <shmoon_> which country are you fro HevvyMetal ?
Jan 10 06:34:01 <HevvyMetal> usa shmoon_
Jan 10 06:34:06 <shmoon_> I see
Jan 10 06:34:19 <HevvyMetal> i'm so really tired of it
Jan 10 06:34:21 <shmoon_> I can completely relate to your feelings
Jan 10 06:34:26 <shmoon_> but the thing is, that's how it is
Jan 10 06:34:34 <shmoon_> where the majortiy of your team are a bunch of non-technical jerks
Jan 10 06:34:35 <HevvyMetal> i dont think "that's how it is" is an excuse
Jan 10 06:34:39 <pifon> devs are like alien hamsters to non tech people
Jan 10 06:34:45 <shmoon_> we're more of an alien
Jan 10 06:34:46 <shmoon_> ya
Jan 10 06:34:51 <pifon> you pay them and they make stuff
Jan 10 06:34:53 <HevvyMetal> so what that is not an excuse eithr
Jan 10 06:34:57 <shmoon_> they think we talk/code/write hebrew or some such language that's alien to them
Jan 10 06:34:58 <pifon> put em in the hamster wheel
Jan 10 06:35:00 <shmoon_> I know
Jan 10 06:35:03 <HevvyMetal> jews are aliens to the germans
Jan 10 06:35:11 <HevvyMetal> well they need to learn that tech people are not hitlers nrew jews
Jan 10 06:35:14 <HevvyMetal> i'm so tired of it
Jan 10 06:35:23 <shmoon_> what can be done?
Jan 10 06:35:28 <shmoon_> is a better dicussion
Jan 10 06:35:33 <HevvyMetal> that's my question shmoon_
Jan 10 06:35:35 <shmoon_> we should look out for solutions
Jan 10 06:35:35 <HevvyMetal> exactly
Jan 10 06:35:41 <HevvyMetal> step 1 is to stop lying down and taking it
Jan 10 06:35:46 <HevvyMetal> what are your thoughts shmoon_ ?
Jan 10 06:35:54 <shmoon_> so for example I couldn't do anything so I moved out and am trying to be around smart intelligent kind and techies
Jan 10 06:36:04 <shmoon_> I cannot change it, cuz that's how it is.
Jan 10 06:36:12 <shmoon_> for example we can't do shit about a lot of social issues
Jan 10 06:36:15 <shmoon_> rape, etc.
Jan 10 06:36:28 <shmoon_> it has to be driven by mass
Jan 10 06:36:32 <shmoon_> or an authority like the government
Jan 10 06:36:43 <shmoon_> if you try to gather mass on your side you'll gather people like me
Jan 10 06:36:50 <shmoon_> but that won't change the bigger mass who are non-techies
Jan 10 06:36:57 <shmoon_> as in change their line of thought
Jan 10 06:37:14 <shmoon_> so move out, sort of avoid them till there's a cultural shift
Jan 10 06:37:27 <HevvyMetal> thats bullshit
Jan 10 06:37:28 <shmoon_> as we progress, as we advance, things will get better. I think time is the only solution.
Jan 10 06:37:31 <HevvyMetal> and its not just non techis only
Jan 10 06:37:36 <HevvyMetal> no we dont advance
Jan 10 06:37:44 <HevvyMetal> asshats roll over for the daily scrum and all sorts of bullshit
Jan 10 06:37:49 <HevvyMetal> every day they valu themselvs less
Jan 10 06:37:54 <HevvyMetal> oh we have to compete with the injuns
Jan 10 06:37:58 <shmoon_> honestly
Jan 10 06:38:03 <HevvyMetal> i'm ready to get out of this business honestly and i wonder what i should pivot to
Jan 10 06:38:06 <shmoon_> our value has increased a lot in the past few years
Jan 10 06:38:12 <shmoon_> so that's a matter of time
Jan 10 06:38:17 <HevvyMetal> hah in what way shmoon_ ?
Jan 10 06:38:20 <g00s> pivot out of capitalism
Jan 10 06:38:23 <shmoon_> with so many large acquisitions and money rolling into the startup world, we get better
Jan 10 06:38:26 <shmoon_> and get more respect
Jan 10 06:38:31 <HevvyMetal> bullshit shmoon_
Jan 10 06:38:36 <HevvyMetal> where do you live and how much do you get paid?
Jan 10 06:38:38 <shmoon_> that's what I've observed
Jan 10 06:38:46 <shmoon_> the shift could be bullshit yeah, not my observations
Jan 10 06:38:48 <HevvyMetal> it's not just capitalism g00s we are singled out
Jan 10 06:38:52 <shmoon_> hmm
Jan 10 06:38:55 <HevvyMetal> so whats your observation shmoon_ ?
Jan 10 06:38:57 * capella . o O ( checks the channel header ... yep, still #android-dev ? )
Jan 10 06:39:07 <capella> heh  must be a weekend :p
Jan 10 06:39:10 <g00s> its not just devs, its the elite vs the masses. always was
Jan 10 06:39:22 <g00s> for thousands of years ;)
Jan 10 06:39:23 <capella> It's the strong vs the lazy
Jan 10 06:39:27 <HevvyMetal> it is mostly devs the elites don't treat most masses (excpt dishwashers) as poorly as devs
Jan 10 06:39:39 <shmoon_> I think g00s has got a point there, what he says is probably the bare bones of the issue or other issues cropping from the main issue
Jan 10 06:39:49 <HevvyMetal> noone treats dentits or lawyers or even grocry store workers as bad as tech people g00s
Jan 10 06:40:01 <HevvyMetal> i dont see those people taking 3 day tests on what bagging patterns to use
Jan 10 06:40:04 <capella> It's blue collar workers vs. slackers :p
Jan 10 06:40:08 <HevvyMetal> i dont see them doing daily scrums
Jan 10 06:40:15 <HevvyMetal> programmers are not blue collar workers!
Jan 10 06:40:19 <shmoon_> I think it is more about relating vs not being able to relate
Jan 10 06:40:23 <HevvyMetal> but they allow themselves to be treated even worse than that
Jan 10 06:40:30 <capella> It's us smarty pants against the newbs
Jan 10 06:40:33 <HevvyMetal> i don't know aobut hat shmoon_
Jan 10 06:40:34 <shmoon_> dentists ,lawyers, grocery store workers - are people with whome all the world interacts
Jan 10 06:40:41 <shmoon_> techies is something other people just odn't get yet, that'll take time
Jan 10 06:40:49 <shmoon_> for them to get acquainted with
Jan 10 06:40:49 <HevvyMetal> yeah and dentists aren't smarty pants?
Jan 10 06:40:54 <HevvyMetal> those are just excuses shmoon_
Jan 10 06:40:56 <shmoon_> they can be smart or unsmart, anything
Jan 10 06:40:58 <HevvyMetal> "they don't understand us jews"
Jan 10 06:40:58 <shmoon_> no man
Jan 10 06:41:00 <shmoon_> tech is so new
Jan 10 06:41:03 <HevvyMetal> yes they are
Jan 10 06:41:05 <shmoon_> if I create a new field out of the blue
Jan 10 06:41:05 <HevvyMetal> no it is not
Jan 10 06:41:09 <HevvyMetal> it is not new
Jan 10 06:41:12 <HevvyMetal> at all
Jan 10 06:41:13 <shmoon_> to which people can't relate
Jan 10 06:41:15 <HevvyMetal> come on man
Jan 10 06:41:19 <HevvyMetal> 50 years of tech?
Jan 10 06:41:26 <g00s> HevvyMetal the doctors haven't been replaced by AI , yet. but i know that software is doing the work of pathologists. next are anesthesiologists. then software will examine xrays, ct scans, and diagnose. they will be gone too. automation will replace almost everything. the only ones that will have are the ones that take at overy one else's expense
Jan 10 06:41:30 <HevvyMetal> oh we have to mistreat the nuke power workers becaus....it's new!!!!
Jan 10 06:41:32 <HevvyMetal> that's bullshit
Jan 10 06:41:34 <HevvyMetal> it isn't new
Jan 10 06:41:39 <HevvyMetal> i'm tired of these excuss
Jan 10 06:41:47 <shmoon_> you could call 50yrs new, but how many people have been into it or being able to relate to it
Jan 10 06:41:55 <HevvyMetal> shmoon_ tech is huge
Jan 10 06:41:59 <capella> 8,000,000 yeras of tech, starting with pointy sticks
Jan 10 06:42:02 <shmoon_> the ifs and buts are excuses for you
Jan 10 06:42:04 <shmoon_> hold on
Jan 10 06:42:05 <HevvyMetal> dont be a fucking apoligista
Jan 10 06:42:06 <shmoon_> go to SF
Jan 10 06:42:10 <shmoon_> everyne knows tech
Jan 10 06:42:11 <HevvyMetal> yeah I've been to SF
Jan 10 06:42:13 <shmoon_> and techies are not underrated
Jan 10 06:42:17 <shmoon_> or dealt in a bad manner
Jan 10 06:42:28 <HevvyMetal> they are sort of still
Jan 10 06:42:33 <shmoon_> go to some African country which is really poor, people won't understand what you do
Jan 10 06:42:36 <HevvyMetal> they get paid a little better in SF but the rent is 5x higher
Jan 10 06:42:43 <shmoon_> go to some developing country, techie? hmm inferiority shit
Jan 10 06:42:43 <HevvyMetal> oh yeah i'm ok cuz africa is worse
Jan 10 06:42:54 <HevvyMetal> i dont know what you are trying to do but i'm goin to /ignore you shmoon
Jan 10 06:43:04 <HevvyMetal> you havent said one thing that doesnt translate to bend ovr and spread it
Jan 10 06:43:10 <shmoon_> alright, maybe we're on different pages
Jan 10 06:43:15 <shmoon_> I'll stop here.
Jan 10 06:43:18 <HevvyMetal> k
Jan 10 06:43:24 <capella> so g00s, I was working on some Java patches today
Jan 10 06:43:33 <Sindustry> g00s, I'm learning to build/maintain/repair/etc computers/software/robots/etc, I figure that should give me something to do till I die :)
Jan 10 06:43:34 <g00s> yeah, this is sparta ^H^H^H^H^H  android-dev
Jan 10 06:44:01 <g00s> http://www.roubinisedge.com/nouriel-unplugged/rise-of-the-machines-downfall-of-the-economy
Jan 10 06:44:32 * capella had a 12 line patch de-scoped into a one-liner  :/
Jan 10 06:44:43 <g00s> capella :)
Jan 10 06:44:46 <capella> I felt so, worthless
Jan 10 06:44:58 <capella> :) Like, why was I involved?
Jan 10 06:45:11 <capella> DOn't we have interns for that?
Jan 10 06:46:12 <g00s> ok back to work you guys :D
Jan 10 06:46:16 <capella> Heh - it was a matter of, don't fix this thing that's mostly correct, just turn it off
Jan 10 06:46:30 <g00s> sounds like FF alright
Jan 10 06:46:31 <capella> *frack*... inserts GOTO EXIT
Jan 10 06:46:37 <g00s> don't fix tab groups, turn it off !
Jan 10 06:46:53 <g00s> oh , btw the new Microsoft browser will have tab groups, i wonder if they got it right
Jan 10 06:46:58 <TacticalJoke> Built-in OneTab would be nice.
Jan 10 06:47:19 <napster> Can't we use a frameLayout inside a list item layout?
Jan 10 06:47:25 <g00s> i hope i can finally get my hands on a surface pro with broadwell
Jan 10 06:47:35 <capella> Someone filed a bug cause they wanted to search for dirty words in a private page, then not see the string in public search
Jan 10 06:48:06 <TacticalJoke> napster:  I've seen FrameLayouts being used as ListView children before.
Jan 10 06:48:20 <g00s> napster sure, why not ?
Jan 10 06:48:24 <capella> oh lord
Jan 10 06:48:25 <TacticalJoke> I'm looking forward to Windows 10.
Jan 10 06:48:54 <shmoon_> can someone tell me how this thing happens ,the mBase.bindService() here doesn't call bindService() on Context but on ContextImpl - http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/1.6_r2/android/content/ContextWrapper.java#ContextWrapper.bindService%28android.content.Intent%2Candroid.content.ServiceConnection%2Cint%29
Jan 10 06:49:06 <napster> interesting, g00s TacticalJoke : I have a framelayout inside a list view item and a child image view in it. I just get : Binary XML file line #45: Error inflating class android.widget.ImageView
Jan 10 06:49:19 <shmoon_> ContextImpl is not imported, subclassed, etc. anywhere o.O
Jan 10 06:49:24 <TacticalJoke> Does it tell you more?
Jan 10 06:49:25 <napster> If I put the imageview outside the framelayout - then no issues!
Jan 10 06:49:26 <g00s> gotta be something else
Jan 10 06:49:51 * napster needs to do some more trial and error kind work here then.
Jan 10 06:50:21 <TacticalJoke> napster:  What is the remainder of the error message?
Jan 10 06:51:13 <napster> TacticalJoke This is : https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d033caa40582bb8d37b9
Jan 10 06:52:56 <TacticalJoke> Strange.  You could post the layout file if you want.
Jan 10 06:53:57 <napster> one sec
Jan 10 06:55:05 <napster> TacticalJoke https://gist.github.com/anonymous/16a781b52a87916be356 Please look after line #37
Jan 10 06:55:05 <HevvyMetal> the surface 3 doesnt have that g00s?
Jan 10 06:55:09 <HevvyMetal> i have an old surface 1
Jan 10 06:55:19 <g00s> it just came out a few days ago
Jan 10 06:55:33 <g00s> 14nm
Jan 10 06:55:59 <TacticalJoke> android:src="@+id/iv_post_image" ?
Jan 10 06:56:59 <TacticalJoke> Also, stuff like [ android:layout_toRightOf="@+id/iv_creator_dp" ] doesn't look right at all.  That's already been created.
Jan 10 06:57:12 <TacticalJoke> The + should be present only once in the layout file.
Jan 10 06:57:19 <HevvyMetal> surfac 4 g00s or what is it?
Jan 10 06:57:27 <HevvyMetal> why do you want some msft stuff?
Jan 10 06:57:36 <TacticalJoke> (Only once for that ID, I mean.)
Jan 10 06:57:59 <napster> junk me!
Jan 10 06:58:16 <g00s> because the surface pro imho is the closest thing to a useable tablet, not a fucking toy like ipads / android tablets
Jan 10 06:58:30 <HevvyMetal> so buy on g00s
Jan 10 06:58:41 <g00s> i hope to :)
Jan 10 06:58:42 <napster> sorry for wasting your time TacticalJoke
Jan 10 06:58:45 <HevvyMetal> and what is the new surface 4,x called?
Jan 10 06:59:07 <HevvyMetal> and why do you need that chipset in particular? aside from nm reasons? (==power consumption?)
Jan 10 06:59:08 <g00s> HevvyMetal its not even announced, but there will be one, and i'm guessing it will use broadwel of course
Jan 10 06:59:18 <g00s> power consumption
Jan 10 06:59:21 <TacticalJoke> Nothing was wasted.  I'm just browsing reddit.  :)
Jan 10 06:59:33 <TacticalJoke> Trying to convince myself that it hasn't become awful lately.
Jan 10 06:59:53 <napster> :)
Jan 10 07:01:04 <g00s> dell is saying the broadwel xps 13 is getting 15 hours of battery
Jan 10 07:01:20 <HevvyMetal> so buy that instead g00s
Jan 10 07:01:34 <HevvyMetal> microsoft isnt the onlywindows tablet maker
Jan 10 07:01:51 <g00s> i'm just saying, intel seems to have done a good job in power. so when that part shows up in a surface pro , with windows 10, i'm hoping for good things
Jan 10 07:02:00 <TacticalJoke> I've kinda gone off OneTab lately.  Too much effort.
Jan 10 07:02:06 <TacticalJoke> I've kinda concluded that the only solution is to close tabs.
Jan 10 07:02:16 <g00s> TacticalJoke \o/
Jan 10 07:02:26 <TacticalJoke> OneTab, Firefox TabGroups, bookmarks... all bad solutions.  :[
Jan 10 07:02:48 <g00s> too many times i closed a FF window and lost all my tab groups in that window
Jan 10 07:04:22 <HevvyMetal> what do tehy call lots of tabs a steak knife or something
Jan 10 07:04:27 <HevvyMetal> or shark teeth
Jan 10 07:04:31 <HevvyMetal> something like that
Jan 10 07:04:42 <HevvyMetal> i have a fucking shark pond on my sys heehe
Jan 10 07:05:45 <HevvyMetal> i dont know what the ultimate solution is for best browser/tabs/memory but i'm lookin for solutions like everyone else
Jan 10 07:05:57 <HevvyMetal> the way they build browsers theses days suck up entire computer but us devs dont want that
Jan 10 07:06:37 <HevvyMetal> umm heh i was right
Jan 10 07:06:46 <HevvyMetal> something else but dont want to rant abut it meh
Jan 10 07:08:18 <HevvyMetal> but i hear the great suspsneder is good
Jan 10 07:08:25 <HevvyMetal> suspender
Jan 10 07:08:29 <HevvyMetal> to recliam tab ram
Jan 10 07:09:00 <HevvyMetal> i'll chk out onetab
Jan 10 07:11:02 <HevvyMetal> actually i use great suspender a little bit and it's pretty good but it's more of a ram manager than a tab manager per se
Jan 10 07:12:50 <g00s> capella is there anything like uBlock for Chrome, but for FF ?
Jan 10 07:13:28 * capella googles uBlock
Jan 10 07:13:43 <g00s> a non shitty adblock plus
Jan 10 07:13:53 <HevvyMetal> what makes abp shitty?
Jan 10 07:13:55 <g00s> you know , that doesn't use 4mb for each iframe
Jan 10 07:14:13 <capella> Oh, heh - AdBlockPlus loas like 1meg .css per open tab
Jan 10 07:14:19 <capella> *loads
Jan 10 07:14:23 <HevvyMetal> i didnt know it did that
Jan 10 07:14:31 <HevvyMetal> have you tried privoxy?
Jan 10 07:14:32 <capella> Why it's so slow
Jan 10 07:14:49 <capella> 1, or 4 ... forget the number
Jan 10 07:14:50 <SirLagz> I use a few hundred lines in my hosts file to block ads lol
Jan 10 07:14:54 <HevvyMetal> why does it load 1M css /tab capella ?  that blows
Jan 10 07:15:03 <HevvyMetal> that's kinda how privoxy works SirLagz
Jan 10 07:15:11 <capella> That's how it's filter system works
Jan 10 07:15:22 <HevvyMetal> i generally use privoxy + abp + block flash by default
Jan 10 07:15:31 <capella> fwiu
Jan 10 07:15:38 <HevvyMetal> even so, my browser takes up 110% of ram and 102% of cpu
Jan 10 07:15:43 <g00s> capella ABP uses 60-70mb + 4mb for each iframe
Jan 10 07:15:52 <HevvyMetal> javascript is the new flash
Jan 10 07:16:04 <HevvyMetal> how common are iframes tho? i thought that was old school g00s
Jan 10 07:16:09 <HevvyMetal> do most webshites uses iframes?
Jan 10 07:16:11 <g00s> HevvyMetal very?
Jan 10 07:16:16 <HevvyMetal> for what?
Jan 10 07:16:17 <g00s> like extremely commmon ?
Jan 10 07:16:19 <HevvyMetal> i dont do html/css
Jan 10 07:16:26 <HevvyMetal> what do they use iframes for?
Jan 10 07:16:28 <capella> yah - they're a real pain from a js coding perspective
Jan 10 07:16:32 <g00s> every social sharing widget is an iframe
Jan 10 07:16:38 <HevvyMetal> isnt that like a table?
Jan 10 07:16:41 <HevvyMetal> ah hrrm
Jan 10 07:16:42 <TacticalJoke> OneTab on Google Chrome uses loads of memory.
Jan 10 07:16:42 <g00s> uh no
Jan 10 07:16:48 <HevvyMetal> do disqus and all that?
Jan 10 07:16:51 <gman23> An iframe is simply a table
Jan 10 07:16:56 <gman23> yep
Jan 10 07:17:02 <HevvyMetal> see i thought it was a table gman23
Jan 10 07:17:03 <capella> A lot of comments sections are in iframes
Jan 10 07:17:08 <gman23> I just googled for you
Jan 10 07:17:18 <HevvyMetal> but it's like a table that comes from a 3rd party ws?
Jan 10 07:17:26 <HevvyMetal> why does abp bork on that so bad? no patch for it?
Jan 10 07:17:30 <gman23> exactly
Jan 10 07:17:36 <g00s> "An IFrame (Inline Frame) is an HTML document embedded inside another HTML document on a website. "
Jan 10 07:17:38 <capella> It's a document in the main document
Jan 10 07:17:45 <HevvyMetal> ok
Jan 10 07:17:51 <gman23> Don't listen to g00s
Jan 10 07:17:52 <HevvyMetal> so why does abp puke on that if its so common?
Jan 10 07:18:09 <g00s> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/182428-ironic-iframes-adblock-plus-is-probably-the-reason-firefox-and-chrome-are-such-memory-hogs
Jan 10 07:18:23 <HevvyMetal> k cig
Jan 10 07:18:29 <g00s> gman23 i'm not even a web dev and i know more about iframes than you heh
Jan 10 07:18:34 <g00s> what the hell do you know :)
Jan 10 07:18:41 <gman23> g00s, clearly they're tables
Jan 10 07:18:46 <gman23> from 3rd parties
Jan 10 07:18:50 <gman23> parties with beer and weed
Jan 10 07:19:06 <g00s> this is the most important part of the article http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/red-panda-firefox-taking-a-break.jpg
Jan 10 07:19:13 <gman23> Have you ever SEEN an iframe?
Jan 10 07:19:14 <TacticalJoke> So many developers give little thought to CPU cycles, RAM use, etc.
Jan 10 07:19:24 <gman23> You put iPhones in them
Jan 10 07:19:28 <gman23> and iPads
Jan 10 07:19:37 <TacticalJoke> Red pandas are so cute.
Jan 10 07:19:46 <TacticalJoke> I saw one at the zoo.  Best animal ever.
Jan 10 07:19:49 <g00s> this isn't rocket science http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_iframe.asp
Jan 10 07:20:14 <gman23> g00s, w3schools is like...wannabe pro
Jan 10 07:20:19 <gman23> I don't trust anything from them
Jan 10 07:20:30 <g00s> i think they shut down O.o
Jan 10 07:20:38 <g00s> maybe the site stays up
Jan 10 07:21:05 <gman23> Their website sucks. Where's all the flash intros?
Jan 10 07:21:06 <TacticalJoke> Their tutorials are very learner-friendly.
Jan 10 07:21:10 <TacticalJoke> Even if they're plain wrong sometimes.
Jan 10 07:21:22 <capella> I go to w3schools for quick reference
Jan 10 07:22:48 <capella> If I want to slog through the real stuff its: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/
Jan 10 07:23:58 <gman23> I don't know if you could tell yet, g00s, but I'm purposely saying dumb shit
Jan 10 07:24:10 <john67> hello
Jan 10 07:24:41 <shmoon_> anyone knows what in, out and inout mean in AIDL?
Jan 10 07:25:42 <TacticalJoke> The Hokey Cokey?
Jan 10 07:26:46 <gman23> shmoon_: I'd guess that in is an input parameter and out is an output parameter?
Jan 10 07:27:03 <gman23> that is is*
Jan 10 07:27:05 <gman23> omfg
Jan 10 07:27:08 <gman23> that it is*
Jan 10 07:27:15 <capella> it's just a reference work iirc
Jan 10 07:27:24 <capella> *word
Jan 10 07:27:49 <gman23> I don't think it's just that
Jan 10 07:28:08 <gman23> I dunno.
Jan 10 07:28:56 <capella> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/XPIDL#Method_parameters
Jan 10 07:29:10 <gman23> Whelp good night
Jan 10 07:29:19 <capella> |parameters are rather annoying to use and should generally be avoided if at all possible.|
Jan 10 08:12:09 <untrothy> Im trying to add elements to an ArrayList<A.C> but the variable declaration on the function I override is of type ArrayList<? extends A.B> and C extends B. Do I have to cast the ArrayList<?> elements to my A.C?
Jan 10 08:21:09 <TacticalJoke> You're trying to add a <T extends B> to a List<C> (where C extends B)?
Jan 10 08:21:46 <untrothy> TacticalJoke, yes
Jan 10 08:26:08 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, I don't think that makes sense.  If B is Animal and C is Cat, you're trying to add an Animal-subclass instance to a Cat list.  But an Animal subclass could be a Dog.  (Then you'd be trying to add a Dog to a Cat list.)
Jan 10 08:26:37 <untrothy> TacticalJoke, I have a class called B and another C that extends it. I have to override a function with a ArrayList<? extends B> as a parameter and I know that it actually is of type ArrayList<C> so I have to add the elements in that list to another list of type ArrayList<C>
Jan 10 08:27:24 <MasterAwesome> untrothy, what exactly are you trying to do?
Jan 10 08:27:58 <TacticalJoke> The fact that you're getting a <T extends B> and you know that it's a C makes me wonder whether you have a design issue here.
Jan 10 08:28:16 <TacticalJoke> (And that you require it to be a C.)
Jan 10 08:28:59 <zinx> untrothy: you'd have to cast it to B then add it.
Jan 10 08:29:32 <zinx> erh, wait
Jan 10 08:29:33 <zinx> what
Jan 10 08:29:38 <untrothy> MasterAwesome, I'm downloding things from the internet and according to which function I call I can pass back ArrayList (Or iterables) of elements of type C or D or E or F.... which all extend A
Jan 10 08:29:54 <TacticalJoke> untrothy:  Could you use real class names?  It's hard to think in letters.  :)
Jan 10 08:32:06 <untrothy> Ok the base class is App.Model, 2 class extend it and they are called App.Doc and App.Cate, I want to pass back an Arraylist of App.Doc or App.Cate so the function declaration is ArrayList<? extends App.Model>. When I know I will get back and App.Doc how do I add the elements to an already exsisting  ArrayList<App.Doc>?
Jan 10 08:32:19 <MasterAwesome> untrothy, So, you want a function to return a ArrayList of the type of the class you're using?
Jan 10 08:34:05 <untrothy> right now I'm iterating with for (App.Model a : returnList) and casting a to App.Doc and then adding it to my list, but since i'm new to Java i'm not sure it's the way to go
Jan 10 08:36:16 <MasterAwesome> Depends, whats your context here, what are you trying to download and why do you need an array list, whats the purpose of it
Jan 10 08:38:41 <untrothy> A just parse a simple json response and create the objects ArrayList<App.Doc> or ArrayList<App.Cate> in 2 separate functions that I need to create to pass to a BaseAdapter to create a list
Jan 10 08:39:27 <untrothy> That works fine, I just want to know how to get elements out of an ArrayList<? extends>
Jan 10 08:42:53 <TacticalJoke> untrothy:  Is there any code you can post?  I feel like I almost understand, but there are so many unanswered questions.  :)
Jan 10 08:43:49 <untrothy> TacticalJoke, sure let me copy the relevant bits in a paste
Jan 10 08:45:39 <MasterAwesome> I still have some questions about your idea as TacticalJoke said, a code snippet would be desirable
Jan 10 08:46:27 <jalnt> Hey, I have this really great idea for an app that will make millions, but I just need one of you wiz kids to make it.
Jan 10 08:46:38 <MasterAwesome> lol? whats the idea?
Jan 10 08:47:13 <jalnt> Basically it'll be a social network that also lets you search the web, watch videos, listen to music, send emails, and do video chat
Jan 10 08:47:29 <jalnt> It'll also do a bunch of other stuff too
Jan 10 08:47:52 <jalnt> Who's interested?
Jan 10 08:47:56 <TacticalJoke> Can't you do all that with, say, one GMail account?
Jan 10 08:47:58 <MasterAwesome> All integrated in one app?
Jan 10 08:48:02 <jalnt> Yes
Jan 10 08:48:14 <MasterAwesome> That's bascially a combination of Google apps
Jan 10 08:48:16 <jalnt> It'll also teach you new languages, let you find new recipes...
Jan 10 08:48:50 <jalnt> You can use it to connect to multiplayer games like League of Legends
Jan 10 08:48:55 <MasterAwesome> >.>
Jan 10 08:49:05 <MasterAwesome> too many unrelated things in an app dont go together
Jan 10 08:49:06 <TacticalJoke> Is there anything it doesn't do?
Jan 10 08:49:11 <MasterAwesome> haha
Jan 10 08:49:13 <jalnt> It doesn't love
Jan 10 08:49:14 <jalnt> Not yet
Jan 10 08:49:19 <jalnt> I'm just the ideas guy
Jan 10 08:49:23 <jalnt> You figure that out!
Jan 10 08:49:46 <zinx> will it let me play LoL by writing gmails with my Rift
Jan 10 08:49:52 <MasterAwesome> LOL!
Jan 10 08:49:54 <jalnt> You bet
Jan 10 08:50:15 <zinx> i'm in
Jan 10 08:50:18 <zinx> transit to bed
Jan 10 08:50:20 <zinx> g'night
Jan 10 08:50:31 <jalnt> Buenas noches
Jan 10 08:50:38 <jalnt> Oh, and it will speak Spanish
Jan 10 08:50:49 <MasterAwesome> mocking aside, jalnt you'd have better luck trying to make an app that just provides a social media for recipies
Jan 10 08:50:53 <jalnt> English will be available as a paid-for plugin
Jan 10 08:51:06 <untrothy> TacticalJoke MasterAwesome, http://pastebin.com/0taDvbKF
Jan 10 08:51:34 <untrothy> I tried to get only the relevant bits
Jan 10 08:52:00 <jalnt> Pfft, you mean like Pinterest?
Jan 10 08:52:03 <jalnt> Old news
Jan 10 08:52:21 <jalnt> You will be able to do anything with this  app
Jan 10 08:52:53 <untrothy> MasterAwesome TacticalJoke Damn it I didn't fix the Class name, the Doc and Document class are the same thing sorry
Jan 10 08:54:53 <jalnt> Nobody's wants to make my app for me?
Jan 10 08:54:56 <jalnt> *nobody
Jan 10 08:56:40 <g00s> what a joker
Jan 10 08:57:33 <Mavrik> Troll.
Jan 10 08:57:40 <TacticalJoke> untrothy:  I feel like I still need more code.
Jan 10 08:57:57 <TacticalJoke> I'm trying to figure out whether you could just use <T extends App.Doc> somewhere and then use T.
Jan 10 08:58:06 <MasterAwesome> untrothy, i dont understand "# My activity where I need the ArrayList"
Jan 10 08:58:27 <TacticalJoke> Oops, I mean "App.Model".
Jan 10 08:58:48 <shmooz> jalnt: I'll do it, what are you willing to invest up front ?
Jan 10 08:58:55 <TacticalJoke> untrothy:  Honestly, for a question like this it'd be easier if we had everything.
Jan 10 08:59:37 <MasterAwesome> True, I still don't understand what youre trying to do, youre adding to an ArrayList and then?
Jan 10 08:59:42 <jalnt> shmooz: Well, nothing up-front, but you can have 20% of the profits once it hits the market
Jan 10 08:59:49 <MasterAwesome> so 0?
Jan 10 08:59:54 <jalnt> With an app like this you'll be a billionaire
Jan 10 09:00:08 <untrothy> I'm only unsure if casting the arraylist element to what I need is correct (line 44-47)
Jan 10 09:00:28 <MasterAwesome> Ah..
Jan 10 09:00:30 <shmooz> jalnt: 2 billion up front, and 5 billion when I'm done
Jan 10 09:00:55 <jalnt> You're a tough man
Jan 10 09:01:07 <jalnt> I know how to haggle with guys like you
Jan 10 09:01:14 <MasterAwesome> with your app?
Jan 10 09:01:18 <jalnt> How about...$20 up front
Jan 10 09:01:31 <jalnt> And $2 billion once it's done
Jan 10 09:01:40 <jalnt> No promises though
Jan 10 09:01:47 <TacticalJoke> untrothy:  Everything about what you're saying screams "Design problem" in my mind.  I can't say for sure, though, because I don't have enough info (hence my asking for more).  :)
Jan 10 09:03:37 <g00s> ugh, ConcurrentLinkedDeque is api 21 O.o
Jan 10 09:03:47 <g00s> sucks
Jan 10 09:03:49 <untrothy> MasterAwesome, I'm sorry if it wasn't clear but those snippets are taken from 3 different classes. So the # My activity is just part of what I do when I open the activity
Jan 10 09:04:14 <TacticalJoke> untrothy:  I can understand not wanting to open-source your app, but IMO you're just giving way too little info for any non-trivial answer.
Jan 10 09:05:16 <untrothy> TacticalJoke, I not trying to get a Design analysis, I just wasn't sure how to get elements out of a ArrayList<?>
Jan 10 09:05:47 <MasterAwesome> out of ArrayList to where?
Jan 10 09:06:31 <untrothy> to another Arraylist of a class that extends the one in the function declaration
Jan 10 09:13:44 <MasterAwesome> In the for iterator statement the list has various Objects not App.Model, so shouldnt you be using for(Object a :list). I'm still quite unsure about what you are doing though >.<
Jan 10 09:15:09 <JakeWharton> g00s: why? what value is there in that over ConcurrentLinkedQueue
Jan 10 09:15:28 <g00s> yeah i got the 2 confused
Jan 10 09:16:18 <g00s> thought i had no Concurrent***Deque
Jan 10 09:17:34 <TacticalJoke> I love discovering new programming languages.  Little is more rewarding, for some reason.
Jan 10 09:18:26 <shmooz> TacticalJoke: you'd be a good candidate to write your own language
Jan 10 09:19:30 <shmooz> TPL for Tactical Programming Language
Jan 10 09:19:34 <MasterAwesome> lol
Jan 10 09:19:47 <MasterAwesome> Sounds cool.
Jan 10 09:19:49 <TacticalJoke> I'd love that.  Though it might not be great because I don't know about paradigms such as functional programming.
Jan 10 09:20:05 <shmooz> it's not functional, it's tactical
Jan 10 09:20:25 <g00s> it should mix tactical and strategic paradigms
Jan 10 09:23:20 <untrothy> TacticalJoke, for(Object a : list) seems to also work. But since the declaration is ArrayList<? extends App.Model> and not ArrayList<?> why should I use Object?
Jan 10 09:24:12 <TacticalJoke> I don't think you should use Object.  I don't understand that suggestion.
Jan 10 09:24:27 <TacticalJoke> Well, I semi-understand it.
Jan 10 09:25:17 <Odaym> "sunderstand"
Jan 10 09:25:31 <Odaym> oh, oh!
Jan 10 09:25:34 <Odaym> "someunderstand"
Jan 10 09:25:36 <Odaym> :)
Jan 10 09:25:37 <untrothy> TacticalJoke, I'm an idiot, I thought you wrote for (Object a : list) and not MasterAwesome, sorry
Jan 10 09:25:45 <Odaym> no no, "somederstand" <-
Jan 10 09:25:47 <Odaym> that one
Jan 10 09:26:06 <Odaym> it's when you understand just a little, "Somederstand"
Jan 10 09:26:11 <Odaym> call the Urban Dictionary people
Jan 10 09:27:21 <MasterAwesome> umm, App.Model is being extended by a class so in the for( App.Model a :list) is constrained I think. Not sure
Jan 10 09:27:36 <Odaym> what is this syntax..
Jan 10 09:27:41 <Odaym> foreach?
Jan 10 09:27:50 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, it's Java's 'foreach'.
Jan 10 09:28:00 <Odaym> that's..highly wrong variable names!
Jan 10 09:28:01 <Odaym> haha
Jan 10 09:28:16 <Odaym> using Object class in code? wow
Jan 10 09:28:21 <Odaym> what possessed you
Jan 10 09:28:30 <TacticalJoke> I used to prefer C#'s, but I'm not sure now:  foreach (String name in names)
Jan 10 09:28:46 <TacticalJoke> I guess C#'s is very readable.
Jan 10 09:28:49 <Odaym> yea I just wait for AS to tell me "this for loop can be turned into foreach" :P
Jan 10 09:28:56 <Odaym> and I control enter it
Jan 10 09:29:45 <Odaym> see codinghorror's latest blog post, really nice
Jan 10 09:32:45 <untrothy> Ah well I'll call it a day and just use that for loop. Thanks for the help, sorry for wasting your time people
Jan 10 09:33:44 <TacticalJoke> untrothy:  Okay, but if your design is bad then you're just gonna have issues down the road.
Jan 10 09:34:09 <TacticalJoke> Maybe it's ingenious and not bad, but I have to wonder (given what little you said).
Jan 10 09:40:28 <Odaym> let's take an example
Jan 10 09:40:49 <Odaym> I want OCR functionality within an app I have, what is the first natural thing to do?
Jan 10 09:41:05 <JakeWharton> use OpenCV
Jan 10 09:41:29 <Odaym> I am using AABBY right now and I am not completely satisfied and unsure if I really want to pay for it
Jan 10 09:42:25 <defuex> hi guys, im currently in a struggle with the facebook sdk. does anyone know if it is possible to add a friendslist in a fragment? what i read so far is, that they only allow adding friends of person, which is using the same app....but that doesnt make any sense. how can i test this nonsense properly? and why can't i just add the whole friendslist through their facebook sdk in a fragment?
Jan 10 09:43:04 <Odaym> I dont see where they explain that they have OCR?
Jan 10 09:43:18 <Odaym> still dont understand what they do, been on the site for 10 seconds
Jan 10 09:43:28 <Odaym> I hear about them all the time though
Jan 10 09:43:58 <Odaym> ah, computer vision
Jan 10 09:44:22 <Odaym> but this means that I have to right the OCR code myself? the code that recognizes the words from the image taken?
Jan 10 09:45:11 <Odaym> they are using Tessaract for that
Jan 10 09:45:38 <Odaym> too complimacated
Jan 10 09:46:46 <Mavrik> OpenCV has no OCR capabilities, Tesseract is pretty much the only free OCR lib worth a damn
Jan 10 09:50:23 <tx> SharedPreferences is handled as a singleton in the background yeah?
Jan 10 09:51:34 <Mavrik> tx, for the same output file yes
Jan 10 10:04:32 <Rohan_14> Hey Help me solve this error http://www.codejaw.com/blck
Jan 10 10:06:07 <Rohan_14> AnyBody Help Me There Please Hey Help me solve this error http://www.codejaw.com/blck
Jan 10 10:15:14 <TacticalJoke> Rohan_14:  Maybe one of your XML files has an error?
Jan 10 10:15:30 <Rohan_14> TacticalJoke: should i paste them
Jan 10 10:20:50 <tx> Mavrik:  interesting
Jan 10 10:21:05 <tx> I'm cat'ing the preference file from my phone, and the value says one thing
Jan 10 10:21:13 <tx> but when I get it from my sharedpreferences instance
Jan 10 10:21:22 <tx> it's not the same
Jan 10 10:21:27 <tx> (updated), after a commit.
Jan 10 10:27:39 <Rohan_14> I just created a HelloWOrld Application But I'm unable to install it on my PHONE  cause whenever i try to install the app the "install" buttons seems to be disabled i'm unable to click it
Jan 10 10:27:54 <Mavrik> tx, check values returned by sharedpreferences, not the file itself.
Jan 10 10:28:22 <tx> Mavrik: any way I can get it to reload the values in the file?
Jan 10 10:28:35 <tx> I'm re-grabbing them (prefs = SharedPreferences...)
Jan 10 10:28:43 <Rohan_14> tx: I just created a HelloWOrld Application But I'm unable to install it on my PHONE  cause whenever i try to install the app the "install" buttons seems to be disabled i'm unable to click it
Jan 10 10:29:11 <tx> install?
Jan 10 10:29:17 <tx> Click the play button in android studio
Jan 10 10:29:25 <tx> watch as it magically appears in front of you!
Jan 10 10:29:27 <Rohan_14> tx:i dont use IDE
Jan 10 10:29:38 <Rohan_14> tx: i work on command line
Jan 10 10:29:48 <Mavrik> tx, you're asking the wrong question.
Jan 10 10:29:48 <tx> Do you have 'allow installation of unsigned apps' ticket
Jan 10 10:29:49 <Rohan_14> tx: so i test things on my phone
Jan 10 10:29:51 <tx> ticked*?
Jan 10 10:30:27 <Mavrik> tx, the only access point to the XML file is the SharedPreferences instance and it has a consistent value if you applied or commited it
Jan 10 10:30:33 <Mavrik> what is in the file itself is irrelevant.
Jan 10 10:30:51 <Rohan_14> tx: Unknown Sources Has Been Ticked
Jan 10 10:31:06 <Mavrik> Unknown sources it utterly irrelevant for development.
Jan 10 10:31:12 <Mavrik> Rohan_14, is your device even recognised?
Jan 10 10:31:23 <tx> hmm
Jan 10 10:32:16 <Rohan_14> Mavrik: its android one un rooted
Jan 10 10:33:00 <Mavrik> That is not what I asked.
Jan 10 10:33:07 <Mavrik> Does "adb devices" list your device as online?
Jan 10 10:33:41 <Tapani> any aussies here who want to try out my android game?
Jan 10 10:35:20 <Rohan_14> Mavrik: Sorry I'm New To Android and stuff but i have a Standard MediaTek Development Board and Android One with Kitkat i'm not sure weather it is listed on adb devices however i have compile many apps before they worked previsouly but after such a long time i'm back to android work but this time i'm being failed
Jan 10 10:36:15 <Mavrik> Well, good for you.
Jan 10 10:36:23 <Mavrik> Now. Does ADB recognise your device?
Jan 10 10:36:26 <Mavrik> Why aren't you checking?
Jan 10 10:37:26 <Rohan_14> Mavrik: Another Noob Question How Do i check for ADB
Jan 10 11:19:27 <tx> any way to get the packagemanager to be nice to emulated phones?
Jan 10 11:19:38 <tx> I'm checking for feature_telephony and it's returning false.
Jan 10 11:53:07 <ChrisUK> if you specify the height of something in dp it should look approximately the same on all devices regardless of resolution?
Jan 10 11:54:01 <shmooz> yes
Jan 10 11:54:06 <EPG> it has approximately the same physical size
Jan 10 11:54:10 <Mavrik> yes (if the device DPI settings are sensible=
Jan 10 11:55:54 <ChrisUK> why would you every specify anything in px?
Jan 10 11:56:30 <Mavrik> you wouldn't? :P
Jan 10 11:56:39 <Mavrik> PX metrics are practically never used
Jan 10 11:57:30 <ChrisUK> ok thanks alot :)
Jan 10 11:58:05 <Mavrik> ChrisUK, so dp for most of stuff, sp for most font metrics
Jan 10 12:23:20 <abara> hey guys :) whats up
Jan 10 12:23:28 <Mavrik> the ceiling!
Jan 10 12:23:31 <Mavrik> and blue sky! >(
Jan 10 12:23:32 <Mavrik> :)
Jan 10 12:24:13 <shmooz> the opposite of down ;)
Jan 10 12:24:30 <abara> there is a way to for a FragmentPagerAdapter to "instantiate" all the view?
Jan 10 12:25:48 <lacx> its a pretty good film too X)
Jan 10 12:26:44 <lacx> anyone here using the Dropbox Sync API? know if its compatible with API 21?
Jan 10 12:30:23 <DevLord_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgc3OiotNEE - Selling my source code. Enjoy
Jan 10 12:50:36 <defuex> i wish there was less sun today. can someone fulfill this wish?
Jan 10 13:01:37 <shmoon_> wow executor framework is quite tricky to understand
Jan 10 13:03:32 <Mavrik> is it?
Jan 10 13:10:21 <shmoon_> I mean as a started I found it a little difficult , too many things
Jan 10 13:10:27 <shmoon_> starter
Jan 10 13:10:36 <shmoon_> also binder to some extent
Jan 10 14:02:47 <xgearx> Hello! Maybe anyone know lib that implements container for view that have free rotation drag and resize?
Jan 10 14:03:15 <Napalm> xgearx: can you explain a little more about what you are looking for?
Jan 10 14:05:53 <xgearx> i put view in container(for example image view) and then user can rotate it, resize
Jan 10 14:06:01 <xgearx> and drag over screen
Jan 10 14:07:09 <Napalm> xgearx: sent you a PM
Jan 10 14:21:24 <Assault> hi, im building stuff for Android with Unity, and I get errors abou my Android SDK being outdated. But I have everything installed in the SDK manager, dont I? See screenshot about the errors and how my SDK manager looks: http://snag.gy/Zam5x.jpg
Jan 10 14:22:15 <MasterAwesome> remove the old build-tool versions
Jan 10 14:22:33 <MasterAwesome> oh wait
Jan 10 14:23:07 <MasterAwesome> Looks like you havent linked your sdk to unity properly
Jan 10 14:23:13 <Assault> Oh, heres the screenshot: http://snag.gy/6Eyex.jpg
Jan 10 14:23:35 <Assault> MasterAwesome, how so? How can you tell that? Because I CAN build, if I just click continue..
Jan 10 14:23:56 <Assault> (yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that)
Jan 10 14:23:57 <MasterAwesome> Hmm... maybe you have two different SDK
Jan 10 14:24:09 <MasterAwesome> and youre not linking it to the updated one
Jan 10 14:24:45 <MasterAwesome> Set the path in the IDE
Jan 10 14:26:32 <Assault> oh, that actually did the trick. I had the SDK path set to C:\Program Files\Android SDK\sdk
Jan 10 14:27:02 <Assault> When the correct one is C:\Users\me\AppData\Local\Android\android-sdk
Jan 10 14:27:15 <Assault> I just dont get why is there stuff in the program files
Jan 10 14:27:36 <Assault> and why does Unity still build when it was pointing there (It just complained about outdated SDK and allowed me to continue)
Jan 10 14:28:07 <MasterAwesome> See
Jan 10 14:28:40 <MasterAwesome> the thing is even if its outdated it can build, its depricated and not to be used but can be use
Jan 10 14:30:51 <Assault> i se
Jan 10 14:30:52 <Assault> e
Jan 10 14:30:54 <Assault> thanks
Jan 10 14:31:31 <MasterAwesome> welcome
Jan 10 14:32:41 <DragonPunch> hi
Jan 10 14:32:46 <DragonPunch> yay
Jan 10 14:35:41 <DragonPunch> Hey guys, I have a switch statement like switch case1 view1 case2 view2 case3 view3 ... Instead of writing the functionality to my code inside the switch statement, how can i organize it so that the functionality can be written inside of their own classes
Jan 10 16:00:52 <raypulver> Does anyone have a rooted phone that wouldn't mind testing a simple program I wrote?
Jan 10 16:01:03 <raypulver> http://ecdesign.co/text.jar
Jan 10 16:01:09 <raypulver> you can run it with
Jan 10 16:01:21 <raypulver> dalvikvm -cp text.jar org.apache.Text
Jan 10 16:01:27 <raypulver> at the command line
Jan 10 16:01:30 <xgearx> How properly ro resize view? Just use layout params and set width and height or remeasure?
Jan 10 16:01:55 <raypulver> It crashes on my phone I want to know the error msg it produces on another phone
Jan 10 16:02:19 <flan3002> "Does anyone feel like executing code that could fuck up your phone, without any reason to believe it's not malicious?"
Jan 10 16:03:10 <danijoo_> flan3002, exactly what I thought..
Jan 10 16:04:22 <flan3002> As in... not even a proper apk, so no permission restriction or anything. rm -rf --no-preserve-root / would go without even a popup for permission.
Jan 10 16:05:10 <danijoo_> and he didnt even say what it should do lol
Jan 10 16:05:21 <jgorak> looks like its gonna text 7576362081
Jan 10 16:05:46 <jgorak> just guessing based on the strings in it >.>
Jan 10 16:06:15 <bpe>     const-string v1, "7576362081"
Jan 10 16:06:16 <bpe> yup
Jan 10 16:06:20 <bpe>     invoke-virtual/range {v0 .. v5}, Landroid/telephony/SmsManager;->sendTextMessage(Ljava/lang/String;Ljava/lang/String;Ljava/lang/String;Landroid/app/PendingIntent;Landroid/app/PendingIntent;)V
Jan 10 16:06:44 <bpe> no clue what it does, it's pretty empty
Jan 10 16:06:49 <bpe> also     const-string v3, "woop"
Jan 10 16:06:59 <danijoo_> bpe, before or after fucking up the system ^^
Jan 10 16:07:07 <adq> #willnotrunitforsure :)
Jan 10 16:13:31 <adq> care to explain raypulver why do you ask random ppl to run with priviledge something which seems to send sms?
Jan 10 16:22:44 <Mavrik> .jar? O.o
Jan 10 16:25:33 <tx> lol raypulver
Jan 10 16:25:38 <tx> you're kidding right?
Jan 10 16:32:39 <raypulver> it's supposed to send an sms
Jan 10 16:32:52 <raypulver> but it doesn't work on my phone
Jan 10 16:33:35 <tx> why does it need root?
Jan 10 16:33:44 <tx> why is it not in apk format?
Jan 10 16:33:45 <bpe> to bypass permission
Jan 10 16:34:01 <tx> seems legit.
Jan 10 16:34:08 <raypulver> so you can run it at the command line
Jan 10 16:34:19 <bpe> totally ostentatious
Jan 10 16:34:20 <raypulver> and yeah to bypass permission
Jan 10 16:34:29 <tx> why would you want to do that
Jan 10 16:34:31 <bpe> and we already figured it send and sms...
Jan 10 16:34:34 <tx> in a non-malicious setting?
Jan 10 16:34:47 <raypulver> I've been trying to make a standalone C++ binary that does the same thing
Jan 10 16:34:59 <raypulver> but it crashes with the same error on my phone
Jan 10 16:35:16 <raypulver> and I don't have another rooted phone to test it on
Jan 10 16:35:45 <raypulver> so I'm wondering if this problem is specific to my phone
Jan 10 16:35:47 <tx> you can root a virtual device.
Jan 10 16:41:58 <abara> anybody using retrofit lib?
Jan 10 16:45:28 <gdrc> abara: me. JakeWharton is the author
Jan 10 16:45:58 <abara> gdrc: woah! man first of all thanks for the lib! amazing :)
Jan 10 16:46:17 <abara> gdrc: second, is there any problem to finish an activity from the callback?
Jan 10 16:46:57 <gdrc> I don't think so
Jan 10 16:47:29 <abara> gdrc: i've tried this now but the onActivityResult is not called after finish()
Jan 10 16:52:02 <DragonPunch> hey guys. i have xml file. im trying to make a nice looking EditText
Jan 10 16:52:17 <DragonPunch> currently edit text width is fill parent and height is wrap content
Jan 10 16:52:26 <DragonPunch> i want to put a button right next to edit text for send
Jan 10 16:52:30 <DragonPunch> what to do?
Jan 10 16:53:07 <Foxhoundz> weeee \o/
Jan 10 16:55:53 <drose379> Guys, what Interface does onCreate() come from? That it is Overriding?
Jan 10 16:56:24 <drose379> Oh it comes from the activity class
Jan 10 16:58:13 <abara> gdrc: sorry man, net down
Jan 10 17:03:03 <DragonPunch> is it possible to pickup post data throguh headers
Jan 10 17:03:27 <drose379> I passed POST data using JSON
Jan 10 17:03:41 <drose379> With the Okhttp library
Jan 10 17:06:13 <HevvyMetal> did you ever find a solution to your iframe thing g00s?
Jan 10 17:10:21 <HevvyMetal> looks like some commenters like ghostery
Jan 10 17:10:29 <HevvyMetal> and it looks like my e key is dying :(
Jan 10 17:10:46 <HevvyMetal> of course e is the most commonly used letter in the english language so that explains it
Jan 10 17:12:25 <drose379> ah, that sucks
Jan 10 17:14:02 <DragonPunch> how do you position button next to edittext in relative layout
Jan 10 17:14:19 <DragonPunch> with edittext:width="fill_parent"
Jan 10 17:15:29 <defuex> does anyone know which messengers web api's can handle friendlist requests and messaging services without regulations?
Jan 10 17:16:13 <defuex> need some web apis from certain messengers to talk to without restrictions
Jan 10 17:22:04 <HevvyMetal> huh?
Jan 10 17:24:32 <pget> I am using list(http://developer.android.com/reference/java/io/File.html#list%28%29) and listFiles(http://developer.android.com/reference/java/io/File.html#listFiles%28%29) functions of File class in my app. Both of these functions return array(String and File resp.). So, are the returned arrays sorted in some way? Like, Alphabetically or DateCreated.
Jan 10 17:26:38 <HevvyMetal> i'm pretty sure the default for unix is to return them sorted pget
Jan 10 17:27:01 <HevvyMetal> but they might not be sorted for the particular language....it might help to assume that you should have to sort them if it's not english
Jan 10 17:27:13 <HevvyMetal> ^alpha sorted
Jan 10 17:27:35 <HevvyMetal> but if it's a FAT32 file system then it's probably unsorted or randomly sorted
Jan 10 17:27:41 <HevvyMetal> eg extsd
Jan 10 17:28:26 <bpe> under the hood, it's probably using lstat
Jan 10 17:28:33 <bpe> who knows the order (inode based?)
Jan 10 17:29:11 <HevvyMetal> inodes arent directories
Jan 10 17:29:23 <HevvyMetal> directories are sorted under unix but like i said not necessarily fat32
Jan 10 17:29:40 <bpe> it can be a directory
Jan 10 17:29:42 <bpe> everything is a file
Jan 10 17:30:11 <bpe> but anyway, not the point :)
Jan 10 17:30:47 <pget> HevvyMetal how can i sort the array according to date created?
Jan 10 17:31:05 <bpe> should be easy with Collection + sort
Jan 10 17:31:13 <HevvyMetal> you'd have to get the dates of the files and then sort on that
Jan 10 17:32:00 <HevvyMetal> build up some kind of custom object that stores a filename and a date and then definie a comparator and sort onthat
Jan 10 17:36:07 <pget> Yeah i guess that would be the right way. Can this http://developer.android.com/reference/java/io/File.html#lastModified%28%29 function help me in any way?
Jan 10 17:37:57 <drose379> Got a question about onCreateOptionsMenu
Jan 10 17:38:35 <drose379> Where is the Menu being passed in coming from, and why do i have to pass it into the MenuInflater along with the menu resource to inflate  a menu
Jan 10 17:39:33 <drose379> Im thinking because it allows other methods, like onOptionsItemClick to use the interfaces methods to get info about the menu and what was clicked
Jan 10 17:39:45 <drose379> onOptionItemSelected sorry
Jan 10 17:40:07 <HevvyMetal> I think it's a bare menu that gets populated when you inflate it
Jan 10 17:40:20 <drose379> ah, Ok
Jan 10 17:41:12 <drose379> so onOptionItemSelected gets a MenuItem
Jan 10 17:41:17 <drose379> is that passed to it automatically on click?
Jan 10 17:43:45 <HevvyMetal> check the params drose379 we're not google
Jan 10 17:44:12 <drose379> Im looking at it, just trying to see how it works
Jan 10 17:45:19 <HevvyMetal> ah kool i get to interview a blonde hotty tomorrow
Jan 10 17:50:21 <ejcweb> I have a parent ViewGroup containing several children. How can I listen for all Motion events in both the parent and children? It seems like I have to decide which receives the onTouch calls.
Jan 10 17:52:01 <HevvyMetal> if the child handles it then the parent won't receive it ejcweb
Jan 10 17:52:12 <ejcweb> I can get all ACTION_DOWN events through the use of onInterceptTouchEvent in the parent, but there seems to be no way to (for example) receive ACTION_MOVE events in the parent and children (my response to onInterceptTouchEvent).
Jan 10 17:52:15 <HevvyMetal> just like everything else
Jan 10 17:52:53 <HevvyMetal> hrm dunno never tried move
Jan 10 17:54:26 <HevvyMetal> wow i just browsed to the saddest website evar
Jan 10 17:54:46 <HevvyMetal> it's like some 12 yo doing php that some client probably paid real money for lulz
Jan 10 17:55:01 <HevvyMetal> reminds me of 1998 all it needs is comic sans and some flashing gifs
Jan 10 17:56:41 <drose379> whats the link
Jan 10 18:00:49 <drose379> Why would this tell me that the method does not override the superclass pastie.org/9824242
Jan 10 18:00:52 <drose379> pastie.org/9824242
Jan 10 18:03:31 <HevvyMetal> http://restrend.com/
Jan 10 18:03:44 <HevvyMetal> what do you think of that site?
Jan 10 18:04:08 <drose379> haha
Jan 10 18:04:11 <bpe> looks old
Jan 10 18:04:23 <HevvyMetal> like i said 1998 or something
Jan 10 18:04:23 <bpe> but i'm searching where it's android dev related :)
Jan 10 18:04:35 <bpe> 90's called, they want their html site back
Jan 10 18:04:37 <drose379> onOptionItemSelected is being annoying
Jan 10 18:04:57 <HevvyMetal> it's just a potential client that contacted me but hard to take them seriously
Jan 10 18:05:23 <HevvyMetal> isnt it supposed to selected drose379 ?
Jan 10 18:05:38 <drose379> What do you mean?
Jan 10 18:05:46 <HevvyMetal> onptionsSelected
Jan 10 18:05:56 <HevvyMetal> i mean onOptionItemSelected
Jan 10 18:06:07 <HevvyMetal> you have onOptionItemSelect
Jan 10 18:06:10 <drose379> oh, yeah fixed that
Jan 10 18:06:19 <drose379> But still, thats saying I do not override the method properly
Jan 10 18:06:23 <GermainZ> Hey everyone. Is this an appropriate place to send someone to if he needs help with checking if his app doesn't break any of the Google Play policies? (Not me, and he's not online right now so I can't ask specifics on his behalf either.) Thanks :)
Jan 10 18:06:44 <bpe> probably not GermainZ
Jan 10 18:07:07 <bpe> and playstoregate drama is growing
Jan 10 18:07:35 <drose379> HeavyMetal do you see any issue with it?
Jan 10 18:07:49 <GermainZ> Mhm… He hasn't published it yet though so I don't think it's drama. Thanks though
Jan 10 18:08:13 <HevvyMetal> i guess its onOptionsItemSelected
Jan 10 18:08:35 <HevvyMetal> what playstoregate drama bpe?
Jan 10 18:09:04 <bpe> app removal and account termination
Jan 10 18:09:40 <bpe> sometimes on legit app/account while in the meantime there are zillions of infringing account/apps which is obviously done on purpose
Jan 10 18:09:57 <bpe> lack of transparency in the removal process, no human, definitive, etc
Jan 10 18:10:51 <bpe> the only solution is to know someone in google or create enough noise on social networks
Jan 10 18:11:02 <bpe> which is not a good solution
Jan 10 18:11:40 <JesusFreke> drose379: probably because it doesn't override a method in the superclass.. :)
Jan 10 18:11:42 <GermainZ> I've seen some on reddit but nothing that isn't legit so far
Jan 10 18:12:02 <JesusFreke> drose379: take a close look at the name of the method in the superclass.. :)
Jan 10 18:12:22 <drose379> yeah.... :/
Jan 10 18:12:55 <HevvyMetal> bpe what are some examples ?
Jan 10 18:13:18 <HevvyMetal> what makes you think it is on purpose? curious not challenging
Jan 10 18:13:46 <bpe> recently it was phandroid who got an app removed, mizuu player too (though on this one, the infrigment was on the screenshot), etc
Jan 10 18:14:17 <bpe> when i said on purpose, i meant some shaddy dev account which does that on purpose (per example the watchface copying real watch brand, there are several articles about)
Jan 10 18:14:30 <bpe> I also experimented myself this horrible problem, i will paste you my post in private
Jan 10 18:14:32 <GermainZ> report it -- worked for me in the past
Jan 10 18:14:49 <HevvyMetal> whats phandroid?
Jan 10 18:15:04 <HevvyMetal> so the infringers are complaining that only SOME of the infringers get busted right?
Jan 10 18:15:07 <bpe> a forum, website old like android
Jan 10 18:15:16 <GermainZ> I agree that communicating with Google sucks if your app gets pulled, but personally, I haven't seen any case where it wasn't justified (even if it was too vague, which I think should be better)
Jan 10 18:15:29 <HevvyMetal> that's like drug dealers complaining taht oly they got busted
Jan 10 18:15:35 <bpe> no, but thinking about it i will not pm you since you made this comment :)
Jan 10 18:15:40 <HevvyMetal> well the name of the app would help bpe not the name of some clowns nick
Jan 10 18:15:52 <bpe> see you later!
Jan 10 18:15:53 <HevvyMetal> who said anythign about pm?
Jan 10 18:16:07 <GermainZ> he did
Jan 10 18:16:16 <HevvyMetal> just now but what about before that?
Jan 10 18:16:21 <GermainZ> "i will paste you my post in private"
Jan 10 18:16:31 <bpe> wonthappen.
Jan 10 18:16:55 <bpe> (easy to find though)
Jan 10 18:19:48 <HevvyMetal> look bpe if you're going to troll then fucking troll man
Jan 10 18:19:55 <HevvyMetal> don't lurk in the shadows and troll
Jan 10 18:20:29 <bpe> you just landed, i'm/was not trolling
Jan 10 18:21:43 <GermainZ> I don't think he's trolling either, even though I disagree with some of his points
Jan 10 18:24:08 <ejcweb> Why does a child View need to return true in onTouch to be able to continue to receive touch events (after ACTION_DOWN), but a ViewGroup can return false and still receive the subsequent ACTION_MOVE, ACTION_UP, ACTION_CANCEL events?
Jan 10 18:32:58 <HevvyMetal> file a bug report ejcweb
Jan 10 18:33:02 <HevvyMetal> so what app bpe?
Jan 10 18:36:10 <GermainZ> HevvyMetal: I've read that Reddit Sync got a warning but that's for a fairly obvious reason IMO
Jan 10 18:37:20 <HevvyMetal> i'm not familiar with that app but what was the obvious reason GermainZ ?
Jan 10 18:37:36 <Chainfire> you cant use brand names you don't own in the title
Jan 10 18:37:50 <GermainZ> HevvyMetal: copyright/impersonation. "Reddit Sync" (vs "Sync for Reddit") makes it sound like it's an official app.
Jan 10 18:38:06 <HevvyMetal> hey g00s did you fix your ram problem?
Jan 10 18:38:25 <g00s> no, i need more of it
Jan 10 18:38:45 <HevvyMetal> ok well GermainZ that seems like "Sync for Reddit"  would still not be applicable based on what Chainfire says
Jan 10 18:38:55 <Chainfire> no thats the exception
Jan 10 18:39:13 <HevvyMetal> ok so it can't be the first word then Chainfire ?
Jan 10 18:39:21 <GermainZ> HevvyMetal: it is in most cases. Also, IIRC, Reddit has brand guidelines that allow its usage like that (Google has something similar for Android)
Jan 10 18:39:22 <HevvyMetal> is there a page that explains this?
Jan 10 18:39:27 <Chainfire> you can't do "Android Harblz" either, but "Harblz for Android" is ok
Jan 10 18:39:47 <HevvyMetal> ok so what is the whining about then?
Jan 10 18:39:47 <Chainfire> it has been years since I read those guidelines though
Jan 10 18:39:51 <HevvyMetal> i dont really see a problem
Jan 10 18:40:15 <g00s> Chainfire is AndroidFrobniz OK ?
Jan 10 18:40:32 <GermainZ> HevvyMetal: dunno, I'm not whining about anything. :p Got to go for a bit, later
Jan 10 18:40:47 <Chainfire> g00s I don't know for sure but I don't think so
Jan 10 18:41:03 <GermainZ> g00s: don't think so -- see https://developer.android.com/distribute/tools/promote/brand.html
Jan 10 18:41:21 <g00s> question is, even if i change the title, its still my package name
Jan 10 18:42:43 <g00s> GermainZ thanks
Jan 10 18:43:09 <g00s> i made these decisions in 2010, things were very different then. and i had permission from the compant so
Jan 10 18:43:43 <g00s> i would never have expected any kind of proactive punishment
Jan 10 18:43:44 <GermainZ> If you have permission it's fine… just make sure you have something to show to prove it if your app ever gets pulled
Jan 10 18:44:55 <HevvyMetal> g00s so you're getting pulled because your package name contains, for example, "reddit"??
Jan 10 18:44:59 <HevvyMetal> link 2 the app?
Jan 10 18:45:06 <Chainfire> if there's any chance of confusion, just don't use it
Jan 10 18:45:18 <g00s> i'd have to rename the package, which is basically a new app
Jan 10 18:45:25 <g00s> i'd lose all my paid users
Jan 10 18:45:32 <GermainZ> HevvyMetal: he's not getting pulled, he's just asking about his existing app
Jan 10 18:45:37 <g00s> yeah
Jan 10 18:45:40 <g00s> *yet*
Jan 10 18:45:45 <HevvyMetal> yes i get that g00s but what package name are tehy objecting too and have they yet or not?
Jan 10 18:45:55 <HevvyMetal> ok well then he's just being pollyanna i think
Jan 10 18:46:05 <Chainfire> as long as the package name doesnt start with com.android. and the app name isn't in violation...
Jan 10 18:46:12 <g00s> the title of my app is == the package name
Jan 10 18:46:22 <HevvyMetal> if you say package.i.hate.ios.coremidi.compatible.jackoff
Jan 10 18:46:28 <HevvyMetal> i dont think they can do much
Jan 10 18:46:50 <HevvyMetal> but if your app name is "Microsoft Word Compatible" i'm sure they would
Jan 10 18:46:55 <HevvyMetal> it's just common sense i think
Jan 10 18:47:38 <HevvyMetal> so yeah "Reddit Readurr" is gonna get bounced
Jan 10 19:08:56 <ReScO> Hey people, i need some help with a tabbed viewpager, i want to add my own fragments to it, how do i do that?
Jan 10 19:10:26 <ReScO> because i only have a PlaceholderFragment in my main class
Jan 10 19:24:04 <wlan2> I know this may be a weird question, but... how do videogame emulators in android recieve signals from hardware input devices?
Jan 10 19:39:57 <DragonPunch> Cannot resolve symbol 'R' when trying to inflate my view.
Jan 10 19:40:04 <DragonPunch> Anyone know why?
Jan 10 19:46:48 <whatitis> usually problems with R are related to resource issuses
Jan 10 19:54:56 <DragonPunch> Well, it exists. let me hastebin
Jan 10 19:55:30 <DragonPunch> http://hastebin.com/zutowexavi.java
Jan 10 19:55:57 <DragonPunch> f (vi == null)
Jan 10 19:55:57 <DragonPunch>             vi = inflater.inflate(R.layout.email_row);
Jan 10 19:56:10 <DragonPunch> email_row is a email_row.xml file under my layout folder
Jan 10 19:56:12 <DragonPunch> it should work
Jan 10 20:04:41 <DragonPunch> why is it not working aghh
Jan 10 20:15:37 <pfn> package
Jan 10 20:15:41 <pfn> basic java
Jan 10 20:25:09 <Odaym> just finished reading Hackers and Painters
Jan 10 20:25:12 <Odaym> amazing
Jan 10 20:27:24 <thepoosh> Odaym: link?
Jan 10 20:27:48 <Odaym> physical book
Jan 10 20:27:53 <Odaym> ah ok
Jan 10 20:27:54 <thepoosh> :(
Jan 10 20:28:10 <Odaym> http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Painters-Big-Ideas-Computer/dp/1449389554
Jan 10 20:28:36 <Odaym> one of the best books I've read
Jan 10 20:35:29 <Odaym> now Im gonna start with Masters of Doom
Jan 10 20:35:44 <Odaym> also should be excellent
Jan 10 20:37:20 <Odaym> oh man, I just built an APK and it's 20 mb???
Jan 10 20:37:35 <Odaym> the whole drawable folder is under 1 mb
Jan 10 20:37:45 <Odaym> what on earth could be causing this
Jan 10 20:38:04 <Odaym> oh, nvm
Jan 10 20:38:32 <Odaym> had left a zip file in the libs
Jan 10 20:43:11 <Teeed> hi
Jan 10 20:43:32 <Odaym> hi
Jan 10 20:43:51 <Teeed> any tested solution which allows to sync local dbs between devices? :)
Jan 10 20:44:17 <Teeed> could be custom one which could be runned on dedicated servers (preferred one)
Jan 10 20:44:26 <Teeed> we have admins do to that :D
Jan 10 20:45:05 <Teeed> only potential thing which i have found is couchbase
Jan 10 20:45:23 <Teeed> but well.. i'd like to ask you if you have some tested solution for this problem ;)
Jan 10 20:46:29 <bpe> with playgames, you can sync data pretty easily, or google drive api (less easy)
Jan 10 20:48:03 <Teeed> i need to sync some sort of db (sqlite/document db)
Jan 10 20:48:07 <Teeed> not files
Jan 10 20:48:09 <Teeed> :<
Jan 10 20:54:06 <bilb_ono> Can anyone tell me if its possible to disable caching in picasso?
Jan 10 20:54:44 <bilb_ono> or clear the cache
Jan 10 20:54:48 <f2prateek_> Memory caching?
Jan 10 20:54:59 <f2prateek_> Use .skipCache()
Jan 10 20:55:38 <f2prateek_> Picasso.with(context).load(...).skipCache().into(...)
Jan 10 20:55:39 <Foxhoundz> Hello everyone. I'm new to android ( and to some degree Java) development. What is the proper way of saving and accessing global variables like app version, author, etc. that can be accessible by all activites within a project?
Jan 10 20:56:19 <Mavrik> Foxhoundz, like all other user visible strings, in strings.xml
Jan 10 20:56:33 <Mavrik> Foxhoundz, you actually have that demonstrated in the default project created.
Jan 10 20:57:06 <Foxhoundz> Mavrik: are values stored in strings.xml always cast as String when accessing it in activities?
Jan 10 20:57:10 <Foxhoundz> For example the version number?
Jan 10 20:58:06 <Mavrik> Yes, that's why they're called strings :)
Jan 10 20:58:46 <Foxhoundz> So I have to do the work of casting them back to doubles, or whatever else I need them to be in
Jan 10 20:58:53 <Foxhoundz> Sounds counter productive
Jan 10 20:58:55 <Foxhoundz> but I'll take it
Jan 10 21:03:49 <Foxhoundz> Mavrik: wait you lied to me D:
Jan 10 21:04:07 <Foxhoundz> It looks like I can also add <Integer> nodes that allows ints to be created as well
Jan 10 21:04:32 <wlan2> But integers are not floats, Foxhoundz
Jan 10 21:04:48 <Foxhoundz> wlan2: true. Let's see if <Float> will work then
Jan 10 21:05:15 <Foxhoundz> And it seems like it does
Jan 10 21:05:20 <Foxhoundz> wait
Jan 10 21:05:22 <Foxhoundz> let me try calling it
Jan 10 21:07:54 <Mavrik> Foxhoundz, yes. You shouldn't.
Jan 10 21:08:08 <Mavrik> probably integers.xml is a better idea ;)
Jan 10 21:08:22 <Foxhoundz> ...
Jan 10 21:08:40 <Foxhoundz> I wasn't aware you could define other xml files to store global variables!
Jan 10 21:09:09 <wlan2> Though it makes a huge lot of sense.
Jan 10 21:09:37 <Foxhoundz> It does. Especially when it comes to localization
Jan 10 21:09:51 <Foxhoundz> not that it would be a problem. I have yet to see an app that actually implements a proper localized UI
Jan 10 21:13:37 <TacticalJoke> I want to POST a request with an empty body in OkHttp.  Should I use ".post(RequestBody.create(null, new byte[0]))"?
Jan 10 21:15:55 <wlan2> Foxhoundz, you can chose any open source one and properly localize its UI
Jan 10 21:17:31 <Odaym> loll look who I found http://stackoverflow.com/users/246461/devunwired
Jan 10 21:17:34 <Odaym> bear man!
Jan 10 21:20:39 <Mavrik> Foxhoundz, I strongly suggest reading up on resources documentation :)
Jan 10 21:26:08 <Mavrik> hmm, so what's the least broken maven repo publish plugin for gradle?
Jan 10 21:26:09 <Odaym> you guys ever use ZXing before?
Jan 10 21:27:51 <Foxhoundz> Mavrik: do my questions annoy you? :(
Jan 10 21:28:22 <Mavrik> No, but you are asking very basic stuff where it's obvious that you're hindered by the fact that you didn't read that simple A4 sized article.
Jan 10 21:28:24 <wlan2> What happens when Android cannot read, for example, /system/etc/permissions/platform.xml?
Jan 10 21:28:31 <Mavrik> And you're just trying random stuff until something sticks.
Jan 10 21:28:46 <Mavrik> Not a good way forward for non-frustrating development ;)
Jan 10 21:28:49 <Foxhoundz> Mavrik: I learn by learning, I suppose.
Jan 10 21:28:52 <Foxhoundz> I learn by doing*
Jan 10 21:28:59 <Mavrik> Odaym, the barcode scanner? Yep, works nice.
Jan 10 21:29:08 <Odaym> yea but what about when it asks you to download their app!
Jan 10 21:29:12 <g00s> Odaym do you know offhand, if the BluetoothGatCharacteristic you pass in to readCharacteristic() is the same /instance/ as the one you get in the callback ?
Jan 10 21:29:13 <Odaym> what trickery is this
Jan 10 21:29:33 <Odaym> yea it should be
Jan 10 21:29:46 <Mavrik> Odaym, um, I don't understand the question :)
Jan 10 21:29:53 <Odaym> no proof though, but I know that all writes and reads are on the same characteristic
Jan 10 21:30:00 <Odaym> well Mavrik, you ever try to include it into your apps?
Jan 10 21:30:03 <Mavrik> Odaym, if user doesn't have the barcode scanner installed, it'll point them to the play store to download it
Jan 10 21:30:09 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  I'm POSTing a request with no body.  Is it okay to say "new Request.Builder() [...] .post(null) [...]"?
Jan 10 21:30:09 <g00s> Odaym thanks
Jan 10 21:30:12 <Odaym> yea, that's what I don't like
Jan 10 21:30:17 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  In OkHttp, of course.  :)
Jan 10 21:30:18 <Odaym> I want to be able to have it "built in"
Jan 10 21:30:27 <Odaym> who's going to go to the store and get ANOTHER app for my app
Jan 10 21:30:51 <Odaym> there is a way of doing that, just was wondering if you've ever tried to
Jan 10 21:30:52 <Mavrik> Odaym, I guess then you have the wrong library, whe point of the ZXing solution is to open their own app to do the scanning
Jan 10 21:31:01 <Mavrik> No, because I've seen no point.
Jan 10 21:31:07 <Mavrik> Even google uses their lib
Jan 10 21:31:20 <Odaym> as a "go out and install this"?
Jan 10 21:31:24 <Odaym> can you point to where they do that?
Jan 10 21:31:24 * regan used ZXing sometime ago, it works on iOS and Android but the WindowsPhone code sucks
Jan 10 21:31:36 <Odaym> just to get some reassurance
Jan 10 21:32:30 <Mavrik> Odaym, among other apps, Google authenticator :)
Jan 10 21:32:36 <Odaym> hmmm what's that
Jan 10 21:32:43 <Odaym> let me check
Jan 10 21:32:45 <Mavrik> Something you should be using O.o
Jan 10 21:32:46 <DLSteve> regan,  iOS has the scanner built in now
Jan 10 21:32:52 <Odaym> :O ummmmmmm
Jan 10 21:32:55 <Odaym> I do...use it..!
Jan 10 21:32:56 <Odaym> lol
Jan 10 21:32:58 <Mavrik> :)
Jan 10 21:33:06 <Odaym> well I dont have user accounts
Jan 10 21:33:08 <Mavrik> 2-factor authentication, good for you :P
Jan 10 21:33:09 <regan> k
Jan 10 21:33:11 <DLSteve> I was looking at ZXing myself for the Android version of my App.
Jan 10 21:33:28 <Mavrik> Odaym, less likely to use your personal gmail with all your data to some random chinese attacker ;)
Jan 10 21:33:59 <Odaym> easy to do that DLSteve, but it will ask the user to go out and install barcode scanner
Jan 10 21:34:05 <Odaym> the code to get to that point is easy though
Jan 10 21:36:43 <DLSteve> ZBar has an Android SDK but it looks like it is in the early stages.
Jan 10 21:38:13 <hgf> hi there...
Jan 10 21:38:20 <hgf> newbie in android dev here
Jan 10 21:40:40 <hgf> I have an app with a MainActivity and a SettingsActivity which is displayed through a menu in the ActionBar. After the user, enter the settings, change something and with "back" return to the main activity, how can I deal with the settings changes in this activity?
Jan 10 21:41:13 <DLSteve> Odaym, Looks like they do it whithout downloading an app, http://code.tutsplus.com/tutorials/android-sdk-create-a-barcode-reader--mobile-17162
Jan 10 21:41:26 <Odaym> they do :P
Jan 10 21:41:28 <Odaym> that's the one I followed
Jan 10 21:42:04 <DLSteve> ah ok
Jan 10 21:42:25 <Odaym> Im working on getting it into the project without installing
Jan 10 21:42:31 <DLSteve> I guess the other option would be a paid lib. :/
Jan 10 21:42:41 <Odaym> or hack the existing
Jan 10 21:43:45 <DLSteve> I did that with the encoder lib I use. Only needed EAN13 so I gutted the lib. In hind site I should have written the code from scratch.
Jan 10 21:45:40 <MartialLaw> i downloaded a plugin for IntelliJ. does anyone know how to install in on android studio?
Jan 10 21:45:42 <Odaym> gonna try this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8340875/integrate-zxing-qr-code-scanner-without-installing-barcode-scanner
Jan 10 21:46:20 <DragonPunch> what's the proper way to remove action bar in android studio
Jan 10 21:48:41 <hgf> thank you for ignoring me
Jan 10 21:48:55 <MartialLaw> ActionBar ab = getActionBar() ->>> ab.hide()
Jan 10 21:48:57 <MartialLaw> something like that
Jan 10 21:55:30 <TacticalJoke> hgf:  I don't know the answer, but it would help if you stated what settings changes you're referring to.
Jan 10 22:08:37 <capella> g00s: Ever build Chromium (for kicks, laughs, whatever) ?
Jan 10 22:10:15 <DragonPunch> Guys, if I have a token that's being sent for authorization. Through what method do I send the token?
Jan 10 22:10:20 <DragonPunch> To my remote server.
Jan 10 22:10:24 <DragonPunch> Keeping in mind CRUD
Jan 10 22:10:30 <DragonPunch> GET = read data
Jan 10 22:10:55 <DragonPunch> i dont want to have to use the token in the POST because my POST route on API are for Creating data
Jan 10 22:11:41 <JesusFreke> as a cookie?
Jan 10 22:11:51 <Tricknology> coooookiiiiieeeeeeee
Jan 10 22:11:53 <DragonPunch> i have token inside of shared prefernces
Jan 10 22:12:04 <DragonPunch> so GET headers
Jan 10 22:12:07 <DragonPunch> is what u mean
Jan 10 22:12:26 <DragonPunch> yeah but wouldn't that token be easily picked up by someone through WIRESHARK
Jan 10 22:12:50 <JesusFreke> if you're not using https, anything you send can easily be sniffed.
Jan 10 22:13:19 <gdrc> DragonPunch: what do you use as server api?
Jan 10 22:13:24 <DragonPunch> nodejs
Jan 10 22:13:35 <gdrc> mh oik
Jan 10 22:13:36 <DragonPunch> okay so i would have to setup TLS than
Jan 10 22:13:37 <gdrc> *ok
Jan 10 22:13:45 <DragonPunch> to be able to send cookie via get method
Jan 10 22:14:11 <DragonPunch> and id use tokens cookies are bad
Jan 10 22:14:29 <JesusFreke> it's not specific to get
Jan 10 22:14:35 <DragonPunch> not bad, but they dont make sense atm for me because my api doesnt use cookie
Jan 10 22:14:43 <JesusFreke> anything you send in any web request that is sent via HTTP can be easily sniffed
Jan 10 22:14:47 <DragonPunch> im using JWT's
Jan 10 22:14:55 <Estragon> Hello, im toying with android wear and voice recognition. I know offline voice recognition is supported on the mobile but is it possible on an android wear device ?
Jan 10 22:15:03 <gdrc> oh nice, there is sql server node js provider
Jan 10 22:15:20 <JesusFreke> Estragon: I believe so, but not positive
Jan 10 22:16:32 <DragonPunch> anyone acidentally light there hair on fire before
Jan 10 22:16:37 <DragonPunch> my girlfriend did
Jan 10 22:18:25 <Radther> DragonPunch: Can't say I have no...
Jan 10 22:19:49 <JesusFreke> ask some fire spinners... :D
Jan 10 22:19:52 <TacticalJoke> I only purposely light my hair on fire.
Jan 10 22:20:27 <JesusFreke> http://www.instructables.com/id/Fire-Shaving/
Jan 10 22:20:30 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Doin it for the kicks
Jan 10 22:20:36 <JesusFreke> ^ that must be TacticalJoke
Jan 10 22:21:35 <TacticalJoke> Interesting method.  lol
Jan 10 22:21:59 <Radther> I think I will just stick to the regular shaver for now...
Jan 10 22:22:29 <wlan2> Maybe you should try sandpaper too
Jan 10 22:22:52 <JesusFreke> I'm not sure what burning sandpaper would get you
Jan 10 22:22:58 <JesusFreke> sand? :)
Jan 10 22:23:02 <Radther> That just sounds inefficient.
Jan 10 22:24:13 <wlan2> It's not fun if you don't have someone sniff the smoke of the burning sandpaper
Jan 10 22:24:30 <monod> hello, can somebody link me to a very fast, "emegency" tutorial for putting hands on an android project?
Jan 10 22:25:12 <gdrc> monod: app for?
Jan 10 22:25:28 <monod> gdrc, it's a todolist app
Jan 10 22:25:41 <monod> if that's what you meant, gdrc
Jan 10 22:25:48 <JesusFreke> turning in a late assignment? :)
Jan 10 22:25:58 <monod> JesusFreke, ... yes ....
Jan 10 22:26:07 <monod> It's class/course
Jan 10 22:26:13 <Radther> monod: Are you trying to learn android or are you after a quick tutorial?
Jan 10 22:26:27 <monod> Radther, I think the first one
Jan 10 22:26:41 <monod> because you might be referring to a turorial as something very specific, right?
Jan 10 22:26:52 <monod> Instead, I really need to be able to put my hands on Android code
Jan 10 22:26:56 <monod> Improve it
Jan 10 22:27:05 <monod> Use Android features the way it's intended.
Jan 10 22:27:10 <monod> I already know Java
Jan 10 22:27:12 <Radther> monod: The guide on the android developer site (https://developer.android.com/guide/index.html) is probably the best then.
Jan 10 22:27:36 <gdrc> monod: just create new project and start using google step by step. thi can help: https://github.com/codepath/android_guides/wiki
Jan 10 22:27:45 <monod> T_T
Jan 10 22:28:00 <Radther> By tutorial I literally meant a "make a todo list in android" guide.
Jan 10 22:28:11 <monod> That's a nono, Radther sorry
Jan 10 22:28:13 <monod> But thanks
Jan 10 22:28:17 <Radther> Ahh ok.
Jan 10 22:28:28 <monod> Radther, is it the fastest way to read all the guide from google?
Jan 10 22:28:36 <monod> gdrc, I'll take a look at what you linked
Jan 10 22:29:03 <Radther> monod: It's the most complete without being a book.
Jan 10 22:29:26 <Radther> But you would probably want to code along side it to fully understand the concepts.
Jan 10 22:30:25 <Radther> Saying that, the one that gdrc linked looks quite good.
Jan 10 22:30:40 <monod> I have a problem :(
Jan 10 22:30:54 <Radther> Elaborate?
Jan 10 22:31:07 <gdrc> you don't have a browser to see links
Jan 10 22:31:09 <monod> I don't know the basics, and that links by gdrc seems like it assumes at least some basic knowledge
Jan 10 22:31:14 <monod> gdrc, lol
Jan 10 22:31:22 <TacticalJoke> TextWatcher doesn't tell me which EditText was changed.  Awesome design.
Jan 10 22:31:41 <TacticalJoke> Then again, I guess it's a generic thing that might apply to things other than EditTexts.
Jan 10 22:32:29 <Radther> TacticalJoke: How are you implementing the text watcher?
Jan 10 22:33:18 <Radther> monod: Do you understand Java?
Jan 10 22:34:13 <monod> Radther, yes
Jan 10 22:34:28 <monod> Even though I never read the recommended book: "Effective Java"
Jan 10 22:34:33 <monod> which explains some tricks
Jan 10 22:34:41 <monod> That I don't know.
Jan 10 22:34:48 <monod> (But I have the pdf.)
Jan 10 22:35:25 <Radther> Neither did I. My Entire knowledge of java before starting android was a 2 week course I did in Barcelona which covered a bunch of other stuff and only the core java stuff.
Jan 10 22:35:28 <t0astt> Ok, so question on app themes. I notice that a lot of Google apps use Material, yet they work on Android versions that aren't API level 21. When I try to use Material aspects in Android Studio, it complains because my project has a min SDK version of 9 (Gingerbread). How can I use Material design elements without setting my minimum SDK version to 21? Because Google found a way to do it...
Jan 10 22:35:47 <monod> Radther, ok
Jan 10 22:36:04 <monod> Radther, I have had a course of 3 months in Java
Jan 10 22:36:28 <Radther> monod: I was just asking so I know how beginner you are as you can get people trying to android without any knowledge of Java at all.
Jan 10 22:36:30 <TacticalJoke> Oh, just the standard way (TextView.addTextChangedListener).  This looks like it might be the cleverest solution: http://stackoverflow.com/a/24282010
Jan 10 22:37:08 <monod> Uhm, Java knowledge is not required to program in Android? Radther
Jan 10 22:37:51 <Radther> monod: It is, just people try without knowing it and get REALLY confused.
Jan 10 22:38:21 <monod> Oh ok
Jan 10 22:38:36 <monod> I think I'm going to pursue the Google guide road.
Jan 10 22:38:41 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Surely the edit text that changed is the one that has the textwatcher attached? Or am I missing something.
Jan 10 22:38:53 <Radther> monod: That would be my first choice if you are in a rush.
Jan 10 22:38:53 <monod> the only other way I can think of is  to show the entire project to somebody in this chatroom
Jan 10 22:39:20 <monod> But should be somebody with enough mind and time
Jan 10 22:39:45 <TacticalJoke> Radther:  But it'd be nice to use a single TextWatcher for multiple EditTexts, and to be given (as a paramter) the EditText that changed.
Jan 10 22:39:50 <TacticalJoke> parameter*
Jan 10 22:40:02 <TacticalJoke> The best we are given is an Editable.
Jan 10 22:40:15 <Radther> monod: I think doing the guides is probably best and just asking any questions if any come up.
Jan 10 22:40:19 <Techdeck> hey guys, for some reason when I use a Spinner, it looks like this: http://prntscr.com/5qxo2q   how can I make it look like the one in http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/controls/spinner.html on pre-lollipop devices?
Jan 10 22:40:22 <monod> Radther
Jan 10 22:40:26 <monod> Radther, ok*
Jan 10 22:40:33 <Radther> TacticalJoke: That would be quite good I suppose.
Jan 10 22:41:05 <Techdeck> it drives me insaneeee
Jan 10 22:42:25 <Radther> Techdeck: You would need to change the style of it in the styles.xml file.
Jan 10 22:42:55 <Techdeck> I tried, but I can't make it look like this. Is this a lollipop thing?
Jan 10 22:43:15 <Techdeck> can't I use AppCompat or something to make it look like that?
Jan 10 22:44:43 <Mavrik> Techdeck, that actually looks like a default spinner on lollipop
Jan 10 22:44:50 <Mavrik> you linked the pre-5.0 design
Jan 10 22:45:17 <Radther> Mavrik: I think he is trying to make it look pre-5.0
Jan 10 22:45:52 <Techdeck> I'm trying to make it look like http://developer.android.com/images/ui/spinner.png  but it looks like crap on my device
Jan 10 22:46:55 <Techdeck> so what I see on my device is actually how it looks like in lollipop?
Jan 10 22:47:12 <Radther> Techdeck: Yeah.
Jan 10 22:47:20 * Techdeck shakes head
Jan 10 22:48:13 <TacticalJoke> Omg, some StackOverflow answers are bad.  I just read an answer that suggests using someEditText.getText().toString().match("") to determine whether a String is empty.
Jan 10 22:48:14 <Techdeck> I see... that must be because I'm using AppCompat.
Jan 10 22:48:28 <TacticalJoke> s/String is empty/EditText is empty/
Jan 10 22:48:54 <Techdeck> instead of isEmpty() ?
Jan 10 22:49:06 <TacticalJoke> Probably the best solution is to use EditText.length.
Jan 10 22:49:13 <TacticalJoke> someEditText.length() == 0
Jan 10 22:49:23 <Techdeck> or .isEmpty() :P
Jan 10 22:49:34 <Radther> Is there a way in xml you have something fill exactly half of the screen.
Jan 10 22:49:45 <TacticalJoke> EditText doesn't have an "isEmpty" method.  You'd have to say "someEditText.getText().toString().isEmpty()".
Jan 10 22:49:55 <Techdeck> yes
Jan 10 22:50:02 <Techdeck> true
Jan 10 22:50:51 <Radther> Apparently not, have to do it programmatically. That's annoying.
Jan 10 22:51:11 <TacticalJoke> Radther:  You could do it in XML by use of a LinearLayout.
Jan 10 22:51:39 <TacticalJoke> Just use equal layout_weights for two children.
Jan 10 22:51:48 <Techdeck> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4961355/percentage-width-in-a-relativelayout
Jan 10 22:52:03 <Radther> There would only be one child though. The thing I want to be half.
Jan 10 22:52:23 <Techdeck> you could add a placeholder
Jan 10 22:52:53 <Radther> Techdeck: I don't like doing that. Seems unnecessary.
Jan 10 22:53:09 <Radther> I will just do it with code.
Jan 10 22:53:15 <TacticalJoke> It would be nice if we could use percentage values for dimensions.  I wonder why we can't.  Hmm.
Jan 10 22:53:16 <Techdeck> I'm really struggling with Android styling the last few days, I wish it worked like CSS
Jan 10 22:53:21 <wlan2> You apparently need a placeholder
Jan 10 22:53:47 <Radther> TacticalJoke: I would imagine it has something to with how it's compiled or something. Or they just never thought of it.
Jan 10 22:54:06 <TacticalJoke> Or they were too lazy.  :D
Jan 10 22:54:07 <Radther> Techdeck: CSS has it's own set of problems.
Jan 10 22:54:18 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Also true.
Jan 10 22:54:46 <TacticalJoke> Sigh.  I guess I have to make an EditTextThatClearsErrorsOnTyping subclass.
Jan 10 22:54:50 <Techdeck> I'm sure it does, but it's still much easier to use. I can just have a border-bottom instead of needing to use an image or draw it
Jan 10 22:54:58 <TacticalJoke> Because EditText.setError doesn't do what the documentation says it does.
Jan 10 22:55:23 <Radther> Say I were to use a placeholder. What thing would be to use? CustomView maybe?
Jan 10 22:55:24 <TacticalJoke> Oops, TextView.setError.
Jan 10 22:55:30 <TacticalJoke> Radther:  Just a View.
Jan 10 22:55:48 <TacticalJoke> <View ... />
Jan 10 22:55:55 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Yes!
Jan 10 22:56:12 <Techdeck> Radther, in CSS you could use percentage... :P
Jan 10 22:56:12 <connerb> has anyone used cuda device apis on android before
Jan 10 22:56:28 <wlan2> cuda on android?
Jan 10 22:56:31 <connerb> I cayeah
Jan 10 22:56:34 <connerb> yeah*
Jan 10 22:56:50 <connerb> Like I'm currently using cuda but I cant get the device driver api
Jan 10 22:57:05 <Radther> Techdeck: That's true but whenever I use CSS things never seem to go where they are supposed to. Android has some consistency with it's views.
Jan 10 22:58:46 <TacticalJoke> I think CSS is a lot more powerful than Android's system.  It has some issues (such as problems relating to centralising elements {though I forget the details since it's been so long}) but it's so flexible.
Jan 10 22:59:04 <TacticalJoke> For example, you can use percentage dimensions, negative dimensions, etc.
Jan 10 22:59:23 <TacticalJoke> Negative position-values, I mean.
Jan 10 23:00:05 <bankai_au> anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the speed of reading from an expansion pack and writing to external storage? the official method is using FileInputStream, but it's soooooo slow
Jan 10 23:00:12 <TacticalJoke> I love how basically everything was arbitrarily marked Obsolete.  Even stuff like this: https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=14310
Jan 10 23:01:38 <Radther> Was that from the "purge" that happened on christmas?
Jan 10 23:04:02 <Radther> Also it does NOT like me adding a View in the XML.
Jan 10 23:07:37 <TacticalJoke> Radther:  Yeah, the purge.
Jan 10 23:07:44 <TacticalJoke> Radther:  What doesn't it like?
Jan 10 23:07:50 <Techdeck> is there a way to design a button once (padding, text color, background color, and other properties) and use it everywhere without needing to duplicate all those properties over and over again?
Jan 10 23:08:05 <TacticalJoke> You only have to set width and height (and, in your case, weight).
Jan 10 23:08:06 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Bunch of inflation errors.
Jan 10 23:08:23 <groxx> Techdeck: define a style, or put it in its own layout xml and <include> it in others
Jan 10 23:08:33 <Techdeck> setting the 'style' property on the button doesn't seem to work
Jan 10 23:08:43 <gdrc> g00s: you there?
Jan 10 23:08:52 <TacticalJoke> Radther:  If you defined width and height and it's still not working, post the XML.  :)
Jan 10 23:09:03 <Techdeck> am I using the wrong property?
Jan 10 23:09:18 <groxx> Techdeck: possibly.  I think it's "style" and not "android:style", if you're trying that
Jan 10 23:09:33 <Techdeck> nah, I was trying style or intellij would freak on me
Jan 10 23:09:50 <groxx> Techdeck: read this / know the basics? https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/themes.html
Jan 10 23:10:10 <Techdeck> ok, I will, thank you
Jan 10 23:10:36 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Never mind, fixed it. was using "view" instead of "View". Dem Capitals man.
Jan 10 23:10:47 <TacticalJoke> Dat case sensitivity doe.
Jan 10 23:11:51 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Decided I'm gonna do it in code anyway as I need to change the height on certain actions anyway.
Jan 10 23:13:29 <TacticalJoke> Just curious -- why does it need to have 50% height?  Just a design thing?
Jan 10 23:15:09 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Yeah, I'm making a toolbar like in Play Newsstand (https://lh3.ggpht.com/FXUNlzMTnmjHALRxLRGUVnwU4xc7Po8iHMRG0WRo7wn2RfJffF-Sv0ChtBRYlyYf0ps=h900-rw) and I want it to fill half of the screen.
Jan 10 23:18:06 <TacticalJoke> Cool.
Jan 10 23:19:13 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, if I set inputType="password" then setError is cleared when typing.  But not with inputType="text".
Jan 10 23:19:15 <Radther> TacticalJoke: How's the app coming along?
Jan 10 23:19:30 <TacticalJoke> Pretty well, thanks.  Implementing logins right now.
Jan 10 23:19:50 <TacticalJoke> Got bored of looking at the default subreddits.  :)
Jan 10 23:20:18 <Radther> If you are looking for some nice EditTexts then I recommend these. https://github.com/rengwuxian/MaterialEditText
Jan 10 23:20:43 <TacticalJoke> Oh, nice.
Jan 10 23:21:17 <Radther> It has the error stuff, and it might actually work...
Jan 10 23:21:18 <TacticalJoke> I haven't changed to 'material' yet, but I will.  And when I do I might end up using that.  (I don't know much about it just yet.)
Jan 10 23:21:44 <Radther> It's surprisingly easy to add I've found.
Jan 10 23:23:25 <Radther> Other then elevation on pre-L. Haven't found a suitable way to add that yet.
Jan 10 23:23:46 <wlan2> Anyone could tell me what happens if Android 4.4 boots while having wrong permissions for /system/etc/permissions/platform.xml ?
Jan 10 23:24:27 <bankai_au> wlan2: try #android-root or something
Jan 10 23:24:47 <wlan2> bankai_au, no one answers there
Jan 10 23:25:05 <darken> wlan2, just try it?
Jan 10 23:25:18 <bankai_au> this is app dev, so i doubt anyone here can/will help
Jan 10 23:26:30 <wlan2> darken, I did, that's how I ending up not being able to open most apps and no Internet access
Jan 10 23:26:42 <TacticalJoke> It's funny how EditText.java is tiny (and TextView.java is huge).
Jan 10 23:26:48 <TacticalJoke> I wouldn't expect that
Jan 10 23:26:52 <darken> wlan2, well that you know what happens?
Jan 10 23:26:55 <darken> *then
Jan 10 23:27:17 <Chainfire> worst case, android system will not be able to read the permission definitions, so a lot of permission will not be applied correctly, and everything breaks (as you experienced)
Jan 10 23:27:24 <TacticalJoke> Wow, this EditText/TextView bug is still present on 4.4.
Jan 10 23:27:58 <TacticalJoke> Although inputType="textNoSuggestions" fixes it there.
Jan 10 23:28:13 <wlan2> darken, I do not know the inner workings, for example, why I corrected the permissions it's still the same symptoms.
Jan 10 23:28:26 <Chainfire> specifically, various linux group ids will not be assigned to app users
Jan 10 23:29:19 <DevLord> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgc3OiotNEE - DroidSpy
Jan 10 23:29:25 <wlan2> Chainfire, so, no chain reaction should occur?
Jan 10 23:29:49 <Chainfire> that depends what you call a chain reaction
Jan 10 23:30:16 <Chainfire> if app users (which can be system apps as well as 3rd party) do not get the right group ids, they will be denied various functionalities
Jan 10 23:30:19 <wlan2> something getting modified because of that problem
Jan 10 23:30:27 <Chainfire> as this probably isn't expected in the code, crashes galore
Jan 10 23:31:04 <wlan2> Firefox is one of that apps that just say "couldn't connect"
Jan 10 23:31:37 <Chainfire> myes
Jan 10 23:31:44 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  If I'm setting inputType="textNoSuggestions", do I also need to specify 'text'?  (e.g., inputType="text|textNoSuggestions".)  I wouldn't expect so, but a lot of people seem to think so.
Jan 10 23:31:46 <darken> wlan2, no sense in guessing, "in case of doubt=>logcat"
Jan 10 23:31:49 <Chainfire> it wont get the group id to allow it to communicate with "net"
Jan 10 23:31:57 <Chainfire> frankly, I'm surprised the system booted
Jan 10 23:32:50 <t0astt> I'm getting an "Error: Cannot resolve symbol 'R'" in Android Studio.... what. How do I fix this? I've tried doing Gradle sync etc and no go
Jan 10 23:32:54 <wlan2> I am too...
Jan 10 23:33:13 <darken> t0astt, clean project, rebuild, if it still happens, check your imports
Jan 10 23:34:06 <TacticalJoke> Ooh.  I have a nice solution to my problem.  Use textVisiblePassword for the username and textPassword for the password.  Then setError gets cleared *and* I don't have annoying auto-suggest.
Jan 10 23:34:09 <Chainfire> wlan2 after something like this happening, my advice would be to reflash /system
Jan 10 23:35:25 <Radther> TacticalJoke: Love that feeling.
Jan 10 23:35:44 <TacticalJoke> :)
Jan 10 23:35:57 <HevvyMetal> what's setError TacticalJoke ?
Jan 10 23:36:24 <TacticalJoke> It shows a warning sign and a message in/around an EditText.  Stuff like "Please enter a value".
Jan 10 23:36:29 <Radther> http://i.stack.imgur.com/D1Uth.png
Jan 10 23:36:33 <TacticalJoke> I guess it applies to a TextView, too.
Jan 10 23:36:36 <Radther> Like that.
Jan 10 23:36:41 <TacticalJoke> Ya.
Jan 10 23:37:20 <Radther> Have a nice night everyone, I need some ZZZzzzZZZzzz.
Jan 10 23:38:00 <TacticalJoke> Later.
Jan 10 23:38:28 <darken> Is there a lollipop emulator that can fake an external sdcard?
Jan 10 23:39:49 <HevvyMetal> what was your issue with the errortext? i'vce never used error texts myself it's just another textivdw in the layour right?
Jan 10 23:40:11 <HevvyMetal> you should be able to configure that in the VM builder darken
Jan 10 23:40:52 <darken> HevvyMetal, the official emulator only allows you to specify the internal sdcard, not a secondary one
Jan 10 23:42:37 <HevvyMetal> ok and isn't that enough darken?
Jan 10 23:43:24 <darken> HevvyMetal, nope, i want to test the new Uri based access system that should allow write access to the secondary sdcard again
Jan 10 23:43:59 <darken> while i can fake it and make it work for the primary sdcard, i'd like to test it completely
Jan 10 23:44:13 <HevvyMetal> then buy a physical unit that has an sd card darken
Jan 10 23:44:58 <wlan2> And how about using qemu, partitioning, and manually mounting?
Jan 10 23:45:02 <darken> HevvyMetal, that will be my most likely path atm, but wasteful, after a week i would be done with the implementations and have no more specific use for such a device.
Jan 10 23:45:10 <wlan2> And how about using qemu, partitioning, and manually mounting? darken
Jan 10 23:45:42 <darken> wlan2, I'm unsure how close "what i did to fake it" is to the real thing, we all know samsung and htc sometimes do their own shit, especially when it comes to how sdcards are mounted
Jan 10 23:46:18 <HevvyMetal> so buy it at bestbuy and return it darken
Jan 10 23:46:23 <HevvyMetal> their own shit in what way darken?
Jan 10 23:46:48 <darken> HevvyMetal, e.g. mount locations
Jan 10 23:47:07 <HevvyMetal> it doesn't matter darken it will return you their weird mount location when you ask for it
Jan 10 23:47:20 <HevvyMetal> it doesn't matter what it is as long as it returns it and it will
Jan 10 23:47:29 <groxx> darken: can you use 4.4+?  there's an official 'getExternal...Dirs()' set of methods for SD cards
Jan 10 23:48:01 <HevvyMetal> meantime did they drop support for installing apps to extenral storage in 4.4/5.0? i dont see it anymore on my lollipop device
Jan 10 23:48:04 <groxx> and other kinds of external storage
Jan 10 23:48:13 <darken> How does compare to the UriPermission you get when using OPEN_DOCUMENT_TREE on the secondary sdcard?
Jan 10 23:48:36 <groxx> HevvyMetal: did the device have it before lollipop?  generally it's only an option with an _actual_ external storage device, not an emulated /sdcard
Jan 10 23:49:27 <HevvyMetal> well the lollipop has emulated but the 4.4 has real but i dont see it on either groxx
Jan 10 23:49:32 <darken> The thing is, I'm trying to reimplement full acccess to the secondary sdcard in 5.0, the issue is that this new DocumentFile system is all but straight forward, because there is no reverse mapping available, you either traverse the file system fully through the DocumentFile API, or nothing. What i want is exchange a file:// based URI for a content:// based uri that allows write access via the document provider
Jan 10 23:50:29 <HevvyMetal> i'm not familiar with these 5.0 doucmntfile featuers why do you want to do that and break compatibility? is it in the compat library?
Jan 10 23:50:30 <monod> g2g!
Jan 10 23:50:42 <groxx> darken: ah.  unfortunately I'm not familiar with that area :\  afaik if it works at all it should work anywhere, but reality and the documentation are often at odds.
Jan 10 23:51:26 <Techdeck> damn! I'm trying to do a paddingLeft on an EditText field, but it doesn't work! any ideas why? (I'm trying to move the hint to the right a little bit)
Jan 10 23:51:59 <groxx> Techdeck: are you trying to _just_ move the hint?
Jan 10 23:52:07 <Techdeck> yes
Jan 10 23:52:17 <groxx> or is paddingLeft working, but the hint is ignoring it (which would be weird, but meh)
Jan 10 23:52:33 <darken> normaly you would do file operations via new File(...), but as we know, since 4.4 you  can no longer write to the secondary sdcard, now since 5.0 you can get write permission for the secondary sdcard by having the user select it in a file picker dialog. The problem is you can not use the normal File.class , instead you have to use DocumentFile.class which basically funnels all actions through the DocumentProvider
Jan 10 23:52:42 <darken> which in the end executes the deleting/renaming etc.
Jan 10 23:52:42 <Techdeck> it's not working at all, groxx
Jan 10 23:52:44 <groxx> I'm not aware of any specific styling for hints, _but_ you can probably use a Spannable string with a left padding/margin.
Jan 10 23:52:51 <Techdeck> not in the hint, and not when I enter things in that edittext
Jan 10 23:52:57 <t0astt> Hey guys, I followed this tutorial to make a material design navigation drawer, however I don't have the hamburger icon thing for the drawer (in the top left corner). Why would that be?
Jan 10 23:52:59 <t0astt> http://www.android4devs.com/2014/12/how-to-make-material-design-navigation-drawer.html
Jan 10 23:53:12 <Chainfire> darken you can write to the secondary sdcard in the app's private folder
Jan 10 23:53:23 <Chainfire> you're probably aware, but just in case
Jan 10 23:53:48 <darken> Chainfire, i know, the purpose of my apps requires full access though (file explorer, duplicate search via checksums etc.)
Jan 10 23:53:50 <TacticalJoke> Techdeck:  Both work here.  Sure you're setting a high enough number for padding?
Jan 10 23:54:06 <TacticalJoke> Try 40dp.
Jan 10 23:54:06 <Techdeck> I tried 60dp at some point :P
Jan 10 23:54:09 <TacticalJoke> Damn.  lol
Jan 10 23:54:22 <TacticalJoke> Here, both my hint and text get moved.
Jan 10 23:54:28 <darken> so to not reengineer the whole app i would like to do create a DocumentFile from a normal file so i can use that if necessary to delete files, but this reverse mapping is not available
Jan 10 23:54:34 <Techdeck> let me post the XML, maybe I'm doing something else that's weird
Jan 10 23:54:35 <Techdeck> one sec
Jan 10 23:54:54 <darken> and the file:// uri does not grant elevated access, only the content:// uri which goes through the DocumentProvider
Jan 10 23:56:01 <darken> I got this reverse mapping implemented.... although using some reflection, works fine with the primary sdcard, just need to test it with secondary sdcards.
Jan 10 23:56:13 <Techdeck> TacticalJoke, groxx: http://pastebin.com/VjScFG36
Jan 10 23:56:45 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  Have you tried setting inputType="text"?  It might not help, but maybe worth a try.
Jan 10 23:57:05 <Techdeck> let's see
Jan 10 23:57:14 <darken> can get everyone too root their devices which would be easier for me :)
Jan 10 23:57:16 <darken> *cant
Jan 10 23:57:22 <Techdeck> nope, no change :(
Jan 10 23:57:39 <Techdeck> in the designer it looks like it's padding, but on my device it just doesn't do it
Jan 10 23:57:57 <groxx> yeah, I just tried the designer too :)
Jan 10 23:58:01 <groxx> looks fine there to me
Jan 10 23:58:10 <Foxhoundz> What would cause the getMessage() method on an exception return null?
Jan 10 23:58:21 <Foxhoundz> to return null, rather
Jan 10 23:58:33 <Techdeck> I must be missing something
Jan 10 23:58:36 <TacticalJoke> Weird.  Everything works fine here, on my device.
Jan 10 23:58:47 <TacticalJoke> I tried setting singleLine="true" in case that caused problems, but that works fine too.
Jan 10 23:59:03 * Techdeck shakes head
Jan 10 23:59:37 <TacticalJoke> Note that you probably want inputType="password" at some point.
Jan 10 23:59:55 <TacticalJoke> Would you mind trying that now, in fact?  I wonder whether something like that would make a difference.
Jan 11 00:00:02 <Techdeck> sure, one sec
Jan 11 00:00:10 <TacticalJoke> It's weird, though: TextView/EditText padding should just work.
Jan 11 00:00:26 <Techdeck> textPassword right?
Jan 11 00:01:02 <TacticalJoke> Oops, yeah.
Jan 11 00:01:10 <Techdeck> nope, no go
Jan 11 00:01:25 <HevvyMetal> i think being helpful is cool but this line by line spoonfeeding is getting pretty annoying
Jan 11 00:01:27 <Techdeck> I bet it has something to do with AppCompat's theme, they've been killing me
Jan 11 00:01:57 <Techdeck> I tried without the inner linearlayout, I tried with width wrap_content, nothing helps
Jan 11 00:02:27 <TacticalJoke> That concerns me, because my app requires that TextView padding works.  ;o
Jan 11 00:02:31 <TacticalJoke> Like, it's part of a key feature.
Jan 11 00:02:49 <groxx> Techdeck: looks fine on my device too
Jan 11 00:02:53 <Techdeck> I'm on Galaxy S5, if that helps
Jan 11 00:03:11 <Techdeck> damn!
Jan 11 00:03:12 <TacticalJoke> HevvyMetal:  I hope you're joking.  If you're gonna complain that someone is trying to help someone figure out a problem then why are you in a help channel?
Jan 11 00:03:15 <Techdeck> it doesn't make any sense
Jan 11 00:03:20 <groxx> try cleaning?  and make sure there are no build problems, sometimes the IDE will launch the old copy
Jan 11 00:03:37 <Techdeck> when I make other changes, they work, like margin for instance
Jan 11 00:03:47 <Techdeck> changing it to password also worked
Jan 11 00:03:50 <darken> Techdeck, does the S5 have the Lollipop update yet (side question)?
Jan 11 00:04:03 <Techdeck> not mine, but I think it's because I rooted it
Jan 11 00:04:12 <TacticalJoke> Techdeck:  Padding works if you set inputType to "textPassword"?
Jan 11 00:04:18 <Techdeck> nope
Jan 11 00:04:22 <TacticalJoke> Oh.  I see what you mean.
Jan 11 00:04:28 <Techdeck> sorry, I'm not being clear
Jan 11 00:05:15 <wlan2> Goodbye
Jan 11 00:05:43 <TacticalJoke> Techdeck:  What if you try setting padding with Java code?
Jan 11 00:06:02 <Techdeck> ah, good idea, one sec
Jan 11 00:06:32 <TacticalJoke> BTW, are you using appcompat-v7?
Jan 11 00:06:37 <Techdeck> yes
Jan 11 00:06:48 <TacticalJoke> Ah.  It might be this bug: https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?can=2&start=0&num=100&q=label%3APriority-Small&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars&groupby=&sort=&id=77982#makechanges
Jan 11 00:07:24 <TacticalJoke> I suspect that setting padding in Java code will still work.
Jan 11 00:08:01 <Techdeck> checking it now
Jan 11 00:08:07 <Techdeck> ! it did work!
Jan 11 00:08:48 <TacticalJoke> If it's a v7 bug, I hope "FutureRelease" means they're gonna fix it in v7 at some point.
Jan 11 00:09:03 <Techdeck> thanks TacticalJoke, good catch!
Jan 11 00:10:43 <groxx> huh.  I'm guessing they just overlooked it :\
Jan 11 00:10:59 <groxx> seems to be a lot of problems with appcompat with 21 support
Jan 11 00:11:08 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.  I'm worried about switching to v7.  :/
Jan 11 00:11:16 <TacticalJoke> Who knows what weird bugs might turn up on devices I don't own.
Jan 11 00:11:29 <HevvyMetal> v7? isn' tit v21 now?
Jan 11 00:11:44 <groxx> TacticalJoke: you know of the samsung bug, right?  I'm not touching the new appcompat stuff until I have proguard working.
Jan 11 00:12:05 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, was just thinking of that.  Only solution seems to be ProGuard.
Jan 11 00:12:06 <groxx> v7 is what it works down to, v21 is the release number or something
Jan 11 00:12:07 <Techdeck> I use com.android.support:appcompat-v7:21.0.3
Jan 11 00:12:34 <TacticalJoke> I'm gonna try to get a lot of beat testers before release.
Jan 11 00:12:35 <Techdeck> what bug?
Jan 11 00:12:38 <TacticalJoke> beta*
Jan 11 00:12:42 <HevvyMetal> right well you can try an early version of v7 and see if its there
Jan 11 00:12:45 <TacticalJoke> Techdeck:  https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=78377
Jan 11 00:12:46 <HevvyMetal> what samsung bug groxx?
Jan 11 00:13:10 <TacticalJoke> Basically, as far as I can tell, if you're using v7 then you need to use ProGuard so that your app doesn't crash on certain Samsung devices.
Jan 11 00:13:14 <groxx> ^ yeah, that bug.
Jan 11 00:13:22 <Techdeck> holy...
Jan 11 00:13:23 <TacticalJoke> Though I could be wrong.  That's just my interpretation.
Jan 11 00:13:38 <Techdeck> TacticalJoke, what appcompat version do you use?
Jan 11 00:13:48 <TacticalJoke> I'm not using it yet.  I will, though.
Jan 11 00:13:51 <groxx> tl;dr samsung idiotically-decided / overlooked that they're exporting an old appcompat version into every app's memory.  so you use _their_ appcompat instead of the one you bundled in your app.
Jan 11 00:14:11 <groxx> obviously this has problems when the new version isn't binary compatible.
Jan 11 00:14:15 <TacticalJoke> bbiab
Jan 11 00:14:23 <Techdeck> thanks for the help TacticalJoke, bye
Jan 11 00:14:34 <Techdeck> groxx, crazy stuff
Jan 11 00:14:45 <darken> gotta love ROM related issues :)
Jan 11 00:14:56 <groxx> so the "solution" is to rename appcompat's package, either via proguard, or jar2jar.
Jan 11 00:15:13 <groxx> that way it's not replaced when your app launches
Jan 11 00:15:34 <HevvyMetal> which samsungs does that affect? that seems odd that samsung would bork that groxx
Jan 11 00:15:40 <groxx> lots and lots.
Jan 11 00:15:46 <groxx> like, millions, ithink
Jan 11 00:15:59 <darken> Doesn't seem so odd at all, there are many ROMs with issues such as this
Jan 11 00:16:33 <HevvyMetal> i said which samsungs
Jan 11 00:16:33 <darken> I think it was the LG 4.2.2 devices that had problems with changing the actionbar title color?
Jan 11 00:16:37 <HevvyMetal> not how many groxx :)
Jan 11 00:16:38 <groxx> most big-manufacturer rom issues seem to be weird styling problems, not crashing bugs
Jan 11 00:16:52 <HevvyMetal> right most people complain about touchwiz
Jan 11 00:17:07 <HevvyMetal> is there anyway to force (or for apps to detect a ) light versus dark theme prferenc or switch based on ToD?
Jan 11 00:17:21 <groxx> HevvyMetal: all_samsungs.where(os_version == "4.2.2").toList().  I don't have the database though.
Jan 11 00:17:48 <HevvyMetal> I don't understand why they have "day" and "night" themes but apps pick one or the other...eg why doesn't gmail switch to night mode theme at night!?!??!
Jan 11 00:17:51 <darken> groxx, the linked issue is "declined", doesn't look like waiting will have any effect on fixing this?
Jan 11 00:18:04 <HevvyMetal> so just 4.2.2 groxx? i have 4.3+ on mine
Jan 11 00:18:37 <groxx> darken: that's because a) it's not Google's problem.  Samsung did something idiotic, it's their bug to fix (via OTA).  and b) there's not much they can do.  changing the package name would be awkward for EVERYONE.
Jan 11 00:18:59 <groxx> and it's not really an issue if you're not using the new features
Jan 11 00:19:23 <darken> i know but i really really really doubt that samsung will push an OTA for devices still running 4.2.2, they just won't care.
Jan 11 00:19:39 <groxx> agreed
Jan 11 00:19:58 <groxx> which is one reason why I don't touch samsung phones, and recommend everyone else does the same.
Jan 11 00:20:13 <darken> basically either the app dev adds another device specific work around or the users are fucked
Jan 11 00:20:19 <groxx> samsung just doesn't care.  they're the biggest, and they _actively_ flex their muscle to screw with their users
Jan 11 00:21:02 <groxx> darken: or uses proguard, which is a good idea anyway, since it makes for a smaller .apk and generally faster (it runs a few levels of optimizations)
Jan 11 00:22:09 <darken> ugh, now i already dread updating to the new appcompat :D
Jan 11 00:22:13 <HevvyMetal> hahahahhahahah darken
Jan 11 00:22:21 <HevvyMetal> first of all samsung phones are the BEST
Jan 11 00:22:35 <HevvyMetal> second, if you are looking for problems with your code, samsung phones are also the BEST
Jan 11 00:22:42 <darken> probably watch the bug tracker during a beta run, see all device issues then see what's reasonable to be fixed
Jan 11 00:22:47 <HevvyMetal> so yes get a Samsung
Jan 11 00:23:00 <groxx> third, if you're looking for bugs in the OS, samsung phones have WAY more than anyone else!  win/win/win
Jan 11 00:23:00 <HevvyMetal> I personally have not had any problems with apps on samsungs
Jan 11 00:23:11 <HevvyMetal> that's right groxx for a developer it is a win
Jan 11 00:23:27 <HevvyMetal> it would suck to have a nexus and then all the samsung owners complain and you say well, duh, I don't have one!
Jan 11 00:23:28 <darken> HevvyMetal, maybe a GPE edition, but i won't touch touchwiz with a 6ft pole :P
Jan 11 00:23:39 <HevvyMetal> touchwiz is not that bad
Jan 11 00:23:45 <darken> number wise, the samsung devices lead though, no doubt about it
Jan 11 00:23:46 <HevvyMetal> i dont know why people hat on the touchwiz
Jan 11 00:23:54 <HevvyMetal> what is your problem with touchwiz?
Jan 11 00:24:01 <darken> last time i checked top 4 devices were samsung for my app
Jan 11 00:24:08 <HevvyMetal> the bloatware to me is a bigger issue and touchwiz which is a non issues
Jan 11 00:24:13 <HevvyMetal> that's right because samsung roolz
Jan 11 00:24:48 <HevvyMetal> it's samsung or die on phones anyway
Jan 11 00:24:52 <HevvyMetal> pretty much
Jan 11 00:24:57 <HevvyMetal> what else is there? xperia? rofl
Jan 11 00:25:16 <darken> HevvyMetal, looks like the incest child of gingerbread and holo, no where close to how beautiful 5.0 stock actually looks, and don't get me started preinstalled samsung apps :), but enough
Jan 11 00:25:30 <HevvyMetal> stock 5.0????
Jan 11 00:25:39 <HevvyMetal> samsung doesnt even HAZ a touchwiz 5.0 yet (that I've seen)
Jan 11 00:25:45 <groxx> yeah, personally I hate touchwiz too.
Jan 11 00:25:47 <HevvyMetal> so you're comparing their 4.4 to 5.0? lulz?
Jan 11 00:26:07 <HevvyMetal> material is the incest love child of someone being rumped by Jon Ivy
Jan 11 00:26:10 <Chainfire> tw5.0 is the best tw yet
Jan 11 00:26:20 <HevvyMetal> pics or it didn't happen Chainfire
Jan 11 00:26:32 <Chainfire> google it
Jan 11 00:26:36 <groxx> "crap v2.0 is way better than crap v1"
Jan 11 00:26:37 <HevvyMetal> yeah yeah
Jan 11 00:26:41 <HevvyMetal> no no groxx
Jan 11 00:26:43 <Chainfire> S5 has had Lollipop for a while now
Jan 11 00:26:45 <HevvyMetal> you have to rise above that
Jan 11 00:26:54 <duncannz> The MediaRecorder docs say that prepare() throws IllegalStateException "if it is called after start() or before setOutputFormat()". I have made very sure that my calls are in the correct order (http://dpaste.com/3VS3DP2). Any other reasons an IllegalStateException could be thrown? Is it to do with not having called setAudioSource (I want the recording to be muted)
Jan 11 00:26:54 <HevvyMetal> you say "v2 is the most modern XYZ yet!"
Jan 11 00:27:01 <HevvyMetal> not that its best
Jan 11 00:27:01 <darken> Chainfire, that may be true, but it's still the best of touchwiz ;)
Jan 11 00:27:08 <HevvyMetal> I just have an S4 but I dont have lollicrap
Jan 11 00:27:25 <Chainfire> I'm not sure why I have to keep defending it
Jan 11 00:27:34 <Chainfire> there are people (not me) who like touchwhiz. an awful lot actually
Jan 11 00:27:41 <HevvyMetal> because you keep saying it's "best" Chainfire
Jan 11 00:27:48 <HevvyMetal> if you say x is the best care then you have to defend it
Jan 11 00:27:51 <HevvyMetal> car
Jan 11 00:27:56 <groxx> duncannz: lots of reasons.  you have to make sure you're fitting in the state diagram on the mediarecorder docs.  checking your source though...
Jan 11 00:27:57 <darken> Chainfire, so internal S5 gets Lollipop OTA right of the bat? I think I'm going to get an s5 for testing the secondary sdcard then
Jan 11 00:28:02 <Chainfire> furthermore, Samsungs are by far the biggest customer base for a lot of devs, so whether you like it is immaterial
Jan 11 00:28:14 <darken> *international
Jan 11 00:28:17 <groxx> immaterial, but it's fun to gripe :)
Jan 11 00:28:22 <HevvyMetal> thats what i said above Chainfire and note material pun
Jan 11 00:28:45 <HevvyMetal> touchwiz = android on salespeople
Jan 11 00:28:46 <groxx> duncannz: what's the full stack trace?
Jan 11 00:28:51 <Chainfire> HevvyMetal nowhere have I said its the best ...
Jan 11 00:28:54 <HevvyMetal> touchwiz = android on salespeople + a shitload of money
Jan 11 00:29:42 <duncannz> one second groxx
Jan 11 00:29:48 <HevvyMetal> <Chainfire>tw5.0 is the best tw yet
Jan 11 00:30:02 <HevvyMetal> <Chainfire>HevvyMetal nowhere have I said its the best ...
Jan 11 00:30:07 <HevvyMetal> gotcha
Jan 11 00:30:11 <Chainfire> darken dont know - I know the latest polish firmware is lollipop
Jan 11 00:30:25 <HevvyMetal> hah right man Chainfire
Jan 11 00:30:26 <Chainfire> HevvyMetal "the best tw yet" != "the best"
Jan 11 00:30:40 <HevvyMetal> manufacturers always roll out shit in 3rd world countries like poland and norway first
Jan 11 00:30:43 <HevvyMetal> don't you know that?
Jan 11 00:30:54 <HevvyMetal> that way their complaints don't show up in english google searches lulz
Jan 11 00:31:00 <HevvyMetal> so yah you probably do have it there
Jan 11 00:31:20 <darken> duncannz, I've just looked at an older project of mine and for some reason i do call .reset() right after new MediaRecorder(), while not a good explanation, give it a try
Jan 11 00:31:30 <HevvyMetal> must suck to be in a country like that always being an unwitting beta tester for MNC heh
Jan 11 00:31:38 <HevvyMetal> but at least earlier access to new products
Jan 11 00:32:00 <Chainfire> vodka is cheap there, though
Jan 11 00:32:00 <groxx> duncannz: fwiw there's this page: https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/media/camera.html#capture-video it has a few more steps, probably related to requirements with the camera api
Jan 11 00:32:09 <Chainfire> every disadvantage has its advantage
Jan 11 00:32:28 <groxx> duncannz: that's at the end of the intro-docs on MediaRecorder, under "For more information about how to use MediaRecorder for recording video, read the Camera developer guide."
Jan 11 00:33:10 <duncannz> groxx, I have read the camera development guide, that's where I got most of the code from. but I differed from it in that I want muted video, and that's where I think this issue is stemming from
Jan 11 00:33:52 <groxx> duncannz: you can _probably_ safely exclude the audiosource line from the camera setup.  but I suspect the preview display is required.
Jan 11 00:34:13 <abara> hey guys is a bad idea  using tabhost on a new project?
Jan 11 00:35:10 <duncannz> yeah the preview display works, but it doesn't actually record video, instead it throws an exception.
Jan 11 00:35:13 <darken> abara, no, it's not inherently bad
Jan 11 00:35:37 <abara> darken: ok man! thank :)
Jan 11 00:35:37 <darken> duncannz, well does it work if you set an audio encoder?
Jan 11 00:35:50 <duncannz> nah I had to set a video encoder
Jan 11 00:35:51 <duncannz> fixed
Jan 11 00:36:44 <groxx> ah, I was just about to ask about that.  it's working now?
Jan 11 00:36:59 <groxx> I would have hoped that not set == default, but I guess not :|
Jan 11 00:38:52 <ManDroid> hello everyone.  I am having a problem after importing an opensource project into android studio.  it is a google map app and authentication is failing.  i think it is becuase of the package name i used when i created the api key. how can i get around this?
Jan 11 00:39:38 <ManDroid> the package name is the same as the one that was importedinto AS
Jan 11 00:40:53 <ManDroid> can anyone help? thanks
Jan 11 00:40:57 <groxx> ManDroid: "authentication is failing" -> does the map not display anything?
Jan 11 00:41:05 <groxx> or is there some other kind of error
Jan 11 00:41:06 <ManDroid> ya nothing displays
Jan 11 00:41:19 <ManDroid> log cat says "authentication failed"
Jan 11 00:41:23 <groxx> check your logcat, it should give you a key you need to plug into the Google API console
Jan 11 00:41:46 <ManDroid> you mean the sha1 fingerprint?
Jan 11 00:43:06 <dragorn> ManDroid: the api key is tied to the fingerprint of the signing cert
Jan 11 00:43:31 <ManDroid> one sec im checking logcat now. thanks
Jan 11 00:43:34 <dragorn> ManDroid: you'll need to obtain your own key based on the cert you're compiling it with; check the google api docs for how to generate and submit it
Jan 11 00:43:41 <dragorn> s/compiling/signing/
Jan 11 00:43:41 <HevvyMetal> huh what? keys dont have to be tied to certs Dragorn
Jan 11 00:43:55 <HevvyMetal> they revamped the key thing
Jan 11 00:44:00 <dragorn> HevvyMetal: afaik the api keys have changed to the signing cert.  Last time I used maps they sure were.
Jan 11 00:44:02 <HevvyMetal> you just get keys/accoutn by default now
Jan 11 00:44:22 <HevvyMetal> which is when dragorn? I did it a few months ago and they had changed from maps key to account key
Jan 11 00:44:27 <groxx> HevvyMetal: dragorn is right, that's how it works.
Jan 11 00:44:34 <dragorn> " You obtain a Maps API key from the Google APIs Console by providing your application's signing certificate and its package name."
Jan 11 00:44:34 <HevvyMetal> so now there is just one api key for everything
Jan 11 00:44:40 <dragorn> https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/android/start#get_an_android_certificate_and_the_google_maps_api_key
Jan 11 00:45:16 <HevvyMetal> ok well when i went to the google api's console last time, it did not require a particular certificate
Jan 11 00:45:32 <HevvyMetal> and i was able to generate a global api key without having to send in a certificate
Jan 11 00:45:36 <HevvyMetal> which was 3 months ago
Jan 11 00:45:43 <groxx> it's a _great_ way to solve the "using oauth means I need to expose my auth key to the public" problem.
Jan 11 00:46:09 <HevvyMetal> what does google maps keey have to do with oauth?
Jan 11 00:46:17 <dragorn> HevvyMetal: Dunno what you did.  According to the current google maps android api docs, you have to provide the signature of your signing key.
Jan 11 00:47:05 <dragorn> ManDroid: in any case, most likely follow that URL i posted 4-5 lines above and you can get your own API key for when you build it.  Also beware that debug key != release key, and other related annoyances in building apps.
Jan 11 00:47:25 <HevvyMetal> i think that is nuts dragorn otherwise you hae to hack your debug key to be the same as the cert key or maps don't work? i find it hard to believe DragonPunch
Jan 11 00:47:31 <HevvyMetal> dragorn even
Jan 11 00:47:39 <HevvyMetal> i think you *can* but i dont think you *have* to
Jan 11 00:47:43 <groxx> no, you just upload two signatures.
Jan 11 00:48:01 <HevvyMetal> ok well maybe they changed something but i nevver had to
Jan 11 00:48:12 <HevvyMetal> and if i did there is a way to hack the debug jar to sign but its been awhile since i did it
Jan 11 00:48:15 <dragorn> I really don't care if you beleive me - read googles own URL.  When you have multiple certs, you need to put both signatures and use whatever mechanism to swap them.  There are many examples of doing it with gradle.
Jan 11 00:48:35 <dragorn> it should be completely trivial with gradle flavors
Jan 11 00:49:15 <groxx> biggest annoyance is with a team of devs, as they each need to generate their own key.  easy to forget, and then there's a round of "wtf"s
Jan 11 00:49:20 <dragorn> (or the maps api allows a debug app; i forget.  if you're unhappy about it, find another set of docs for configuring and use them)
Jan 11 00:49:35 <HevvyMetal> heh maintain parallel manifests
Jan 11 00:49:42 <dragorn> trivial w/ gradle, so, yeah?
Jan 11 00:49:44 <HevvyMetal> they should share teh debug key groxx
Jan 11 00:49:45 <groxx> ^ way easier with gradle!
Jan 11 00:49:53 <HevvyMetal> still a bad idea so yeah?
Jan 11 00:49:56 <groxx> HevvyMetal: yeah, we might start doing that at work.  it would simplify things.
Jan 11 00:50:08 <HevvyMetal> i bet
Jan 11 00:50:20 <joejackson> sorry my computer shutdown
Jan 11 00:50:29 <HevvyMetal> on eclipse you can put the debug key in the project i'm not sure about AS
Jan 11 00:50:36 <joejackson> so i am using the key that is stated in logcat but still says auth failed
Jan 11 00:50:42 <groxx> yeah, it's pretty easy in AS too
Jan 11 00:50:56 <dragorn> joe75: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/android/start#get_an_android_certificate_and_the_google_maps_api_key
Jan 11 00:50:58 <HevvyMetal> how many devs are on your team groxx?
Jan 11 00:50:59 <dragorn> ugh.
Jan 11 00:51:02 <dragorn> joejackson: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/android/start#get_an_android_certificate_and_the_google_maps_api_key
Jan 11 00:51:31 <joejackson> i know how to do that dragorn. i have done it before and it has worked but it is not working with this imported project
Jan 11 00:51:34 <groxx> HevvyMetal: just 4 of us at the moment.
Jan 11 00:51:46 <HevvyMetal> well 4 is a lot for android groxx
Jan 11 00:52:00 <HevvyMetal> that's a lot bigger team than many apps like tinder/wunderground etc
Jan 11 00:52:06 <joejackson> is it becuase I am using the same package name as the original project
Jan 11 00:52:08 <HevvyMetal> are you working for wells fargo or what groxx ? :)
Jan 11 00:52:18 <groxx> well yeah, but wunderground is a really awkward app
Jan 11 00:52:35 <HevvyMetal> well still i rarely find teams that have more than 2 android + 2 iOS
Jan 11 00:52:39 <dragorn> groxx: our pet key problem is platform keys because everyone has custom builds
Jan 11 00:52:41 <HevvyMetal> so 4 android seems like a lot
Jan 11 00:52:45 <groxx> you haven't looked too far then.
Jan 11 00:53:02 <groxx> it's generally smaller, yeah, but there are plenty of >4 teams
Jan 11 00:53:06 <darken> What is wunderground O_o
Jan 11 00:53:07 <HevvyMetal> hah really now? what kind of apps have >=4 devs on them that you know of groxx?
Jan 11 00:53:16 <HevvyMetal> weather underground
Jan 11 00:53:35 <HevvyMetal> i would say for every shop that has >=4 devs there are 100 shops with less
Jan 11 00:53:40 <HevvyMetal> so you're a 1%er groxx :)
Jan 11 00:53:46 <groxx> sure.  but that's true for pretty much every business ever
Jan 11 00:53:56 <HevvyMetal> so ok that makes >=4 rare then right?
Jan 11 00:54:02 <HevvyMetal> it's not like half of them are >=4
Jan 11 00:54:03 <HevvyMetal> 1%
Jan 11 00:54:05 <groxx> small independent shops massively outnumber the big ones
Jan 11 00:54:15 <HevvyMetal> i'm not even countining independent
Jan 11 00:54:21 <HevvyMetal> if I counted independent it would be 1000:1
Jan 11 00:54:31 <HevvyMetal> I'm talking about corps with at least 5 employees
Jan 11 00:54:33 <groxx> no, you're just being deliberately obtuse.
Jan 11 00:54:38 <HevvyMetal> no not at all
Jan 11 00:54:57 <HevvyMetal> i've worked with companies that have 25 employees and only 1 or 2 android
Jan 11 00:55:13 <HevvyMetal> 4 android is just a lot, even by payroll alone
Jan 11 00:55:19 <HevvyMetal> so it's cool you work for a big shop :)
Jan 11 00:56:09 <DragonPunch> im back
Jan 11 00:56:10 <DragonPunch> whatsup
Jan 11 00:56:30 <groxx> well, "big" is 5 people, but sure
Jan 11 00:59:28 <DragonPunch> 5 android devs is alot?
Jan 11 01:00:17 <Templarian> There run ran a new SVG optimization step over at MaterialDesignIcons.com and all the path data is now 20% smaller (already optimized previously). Hopefully more apps are using vector drawables.
Jan 11 01:01:02 <DragonPunch> is there a front end android styles website
Jan 11 01:01:41 <Templarian> DragonPunch: https://www.polymer-project.org/
Jan 11 01:01:56 <DragonPunch> non material design
Jan 11 01:02:16 <Templarian> Not sure I understand. Material Design is the android style.
Jan 11 01:02:20 <groxx> Templarian: I sure hope so.  I've wanted to toss our bitmaps for svgs a looong time ago.
Jan 11 01:02:52 <darken> vector drawables are not avialable via lib for <5.0 right?
Jan 11 01:03:03 <binroot> HI, I'm having trouble with sending an Asset from Wearable (watch) to a device. In my `onDataChanged` listener, I get an error every time I do `DataMapItem.fromDataItem(event.getDataItem())`
Jan 11 01:03:17 <Templarian> 5.0 API Level 21+
Jan 11 01:03:21 <binroot> "Cannot find DataItemAsset referenced in data at 0 for DataItemEntity[@2..."
Jan 11 01:03:29 <Templarian> Unless someone back ported it, which they might have.
Jan 11 01:03:31 <groxx> I'm hoping for a backport
Jan 11 01:03:36 <groxx> should be possible
Jan 11 01:03:58 <Templarian> Very possible, drawing SVG path data isn't too hard. There are image libraries in almost every language.
Jan 11 01:04:04 <TacticalJoke> Hmm.  If I'm showing a login Activity (with "Username" and "Password" fields), is it excusable to show a ProgressDialog when they click "Log in"?
Jan 11 01:04:10 <DragonPunch> if google says do this
Jan 11 01:04:11 <DragonPunch> do that
Jan 11 01:04:16 <TacticalJoke> I'm usually against ProgressDialogs, but I can't think of a better solution here.
Jan 11 01:04:19 <DragonPunch> im not going to do it
Jan 11 01:04:54 <groxx> fwiw I've shifted to prefer changing the _button_ into a spinner.  no need to gray out the whole UI just to show that you're doing something.
Jan 11 01:05:05 <TacticalJoke> Ah, that's a nice idea.
Jan 11 01:05:16 <groxx> not always appropriate, as sometimes it might imply other things are still clickable, but sometimes that's fine
Jan 11 01:05:18 <DragonPunch> TacticalJoke: progress dialogs are ugly
Jan 11 01:05:22 <DragonPunch> i like groxx idea
Jan 11 01:05:52 <TacticalJoke> I have a big bag between the EditTexts and the Buttons.  I could put a ProgressBar there.
Jan 11 01:05:56 <TacticalJoke> s/bag/gap/
Jan 11 01:06:48 <TacticalJoke> Only thing is that I'd have to disable the username EditText, the password EditText, and the log-in Button.  Only the cancel Button would be enabled.
Jan 11 01:06:54 <HevvyMetal> yeah i think 5 android devs is a lot DragonPunch
Jan 11 01:06:58 <HevvyMetal> how many do you have on your team?
Jan 11 01:07:26 <DragonPunch> 1
Jan 11 01:07:31 <DragonPunch> im at a small company tho
Jan 11 01:07:35 <HevvyMetal> ok
Jan 11 01:07:48 <HevvyMetal> well most companies are small companies
Jan 11 01:07:53 <DragonPunch> yeah
Jan 11 01:07:54 <DragonPunch> true
Jan 11 01:07:59 <HevvyMetal> that's my point
Jan 11 01:08:00 <DragonPunch> where do you think most of the attention is at than
Jan 11 01:08:09 <HevvyMetal> huh?
Jan 11 01:08:14 <DragonPunch> android - ios - web -systems
Jan 11 01:08:24 <DragonPunch> product growth - sales
Jan 11 01:08:36 <HevvyMetal> as far as staffing?
Jan 11 01:08:42 <DragonPunch> why do big companies
Jan 11 01:08:49 <DragonPunch> have 50 android devs
Jan 11 01:08:58 <HevvyMetal> who has 50 android devs?
Jan 11 01:09:05 <HevvyMetal> besides google?
Jan 11 01:09:14 <DragonPunch> how many devs does google have
Jan 11 01:09:16 <groxx> probably twitter and FB?
Jan 11 01:09:23 <DragonPunch> android devs*
Jan 11 01:09:24 <TacticalJoke> groxx:  So you just hide the Button and place a circular ProgressBar in the same spot?
Jan 11 01:09:56 <HevvyMetal> ok so eliminate the top 10 companies say: google, twitter, fb, samsung, HTC, Qualcomm etc
Jan 11 01:09:57 <groxx> but we're 4 devs, two of us also do the server, one is also our designer (and he's good at both.  a frickin' unicorn.  it's awesome.)
Jan 11 01:10:13 <threefourme> ello
Jan 11 01:10:25 <HevvyMetal> so its more like 2.5 devs for you groxx but ok
Jan 11 01:10:30 <groxx> TacticalJoke: yeah
Jan 11 01:10:33 <HevvyMetal> still way less than 50 or 20 or even 10
Jan 11 01:10:37 <binroot> Help me please :) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27882946/android-wearable-sending-large-data-to-phone
Jan 11 01:10:39 <TacticalJoke> groxx:  Are there issues with size differences and stuff?
Jan 11 01:11:04 <HevvyMetal> so speaking of large teams on android anyone doing jenkins or other CI?
Jan 11 01:11:20 <HevvyMetal> also do you folks normally handle tablet with fragments or entirely different layout/activity?
Jan 11 01:11:39 <groxx> TacticalJoke: as always, it depends :)  generally I've seen it when the buttons are _only_ icons, or just replace the icon with a spinner.
Jan 11 01:11:53 <TacticalJoke> I see.
Jan 11 01:11:58 <groxx> "or" -> the icon in the [[icon] button text] button
Jan 11 01:14:59 <DragonPunch> Guys.
Jan 11 01:15:06 <DragonPunch> Im having keyboard issues, with EditText
Jan 11 01:15:27 <DragonPunch> I run my app, and click EditText field. Keyboard shows up by nothing is typed into the field.
Jan 11 01:16:17 <groxx> I've seen that in apps before... dunno why it happens though :}
Jan 11 01:16:24 <groxx> whups.  :} => :|
Jan 11 01:16:27 <DragonPunch> lmao, really
Jan 11 01:16:34 <DragonPunch> how the hell do u fix this because i love my app ahhaah
Jan 11 01:17:22 <TacticalJoke> There are so many clueless people on StackOverflow who blindly tell people to set android:configChanges="orientation".
Jan 11 01:18:50 <HevvyMetal> and?
Jan 11 01:20:44 <HevvyMetal> whats the context and result TacticalJoke ?
Jan 11 01:22:11 <AKK9> guys, how can I get the height of a view on the screen.
Jan 11 01:22:16 <AKK9> But only the visible height
Jan 11 01:22:28 <AKK9> e.g if is it partially scrolled off the screen?
Jan 11 01:24:23 <HevvyMetal> !test
Jan 11 01:24:26 <HevvyMetal> ~test
Jan 11 01:24:35 <HevvyMetal> are there any bots that run here? :)
Jan 11 01:25:00 <AKK9> dont think so
Jan 11 01:25:19 <HevvyMetal> that seems odd
Jan 11 01:25:24 <HevvyMetal> there should at least be a googlebot
Jan 11 01:25:34 <HevvyMetal> google lmgtfy
Jan 11 01:25:42 <Chainfire> google has abandoned this channel some time ago
Jan 11 01:26:08 <HevvyMetal> well there are other bots with equivalent functionality
Jan 11 01:26:18 <HevvyMetal> like lobsterman and things like taht
Jan 11 01:26:18 <darken> Chainfire, was there an official reason?
Jan 11 01:26:26 <HevvyMetal> no1 can run a skript here?
Jan 11 01:26:39 <HevvyMetal> there should be a good javadoc /android/maven lookup etc
Jan 11 01:26:39 <JesusFreke> HevvyMetal: see /topic :)
Jan 11 01:26:51 <Chainfire> it's rare for Google have any discernable reason, let alone an official one ;)
Jan 11 01:27:26 <HevvyMetal> JesusFreke: "No Bots"
Jan 11 01:27:38 <HevvyMetal> "We don't serve your kind in here! The droids will have to stay outside!"
Jan 11 01:27:40 <HevvyMetal> wth
Jan 11 01:27:44 <HevvyMetal> is this mos eisley? :)
Jan 11 01:27:56 <Chainfire> I remember someone saying it was Q/A here is "lost", while on StackOverflow others can read the answers to previous questions
Jan 11 01:27:59 <HevvyMetal> R2 is a person
Jan 11 01:28:10 <Chainfire> but whether that was a Googler or not, I don't know
Jan 11 01:28:30 <HevvyMetal> chainfire huh? it was q/a here?
Jan 11 01:28:45 <HevvyMetal> we should at least have some trusted bots to serve us drinks JesusFreke
Jan 11 01:29:11 <Chainfire> there were Google'rs around you could ask stuff, yes
Jan 11 01:29:11 <JesusFreke> but what if they attained sentience?
Jan 11 01:29:15 <JesusFreke> we can't have that, now can we?
Jan 11 01:29:29 <HevvyMetal> JesusFreke : if you write them in php it will never happen
Jan 11 01:29:44 <HevvyMetal> trust in the force
Jan 11 01:29:55 <Chainfire> Christopher Tate, Romain Guy, I remember seeing San Mehat once... arguably a waste of time for talents of that calibre, compared to other things they could be done.
Jan 11 01:29:58 <Chainfire> *doing
Jan 11 01:30:12 <groxx> well.  on StackOverflow the Q/A succumbs to bitrot and bickering in record speed.  not sure that's much better.
Jan 11 01:30:28 <Chainfire> I find StackOverflow surprisingly useful
Jan 11 01:30:41 <groxx> when it works, it's great, yeah.
Jan 11 01:30:48 <groxx> better than just about any alternative.
Jan 11 01:30:57 <Chainfire> it used to be the case I got answers to odd questions here... I don't think I've gotten a good answer in this channel for a while ;)
Jan 11 01:31:06 <TacticalJoke> I don't think it'd be a waste of time; some important apps are developed by people in here.
Jan 11 01:31:51 <HevvyMetal> forums ahve been beating irc for a long time Chainfire
Jan 11 01:31:56 <darken> it's true though that good answers are lost here, where on StackOverFlow you could find it later via google
Jan 11 01:32:22 <groxx> awww :'(
Jan 11 01:32:26 <groxx> I try D:
Jan 11 01:32:27 <Chainfire> also, IIRC, some Google'rs have the job of finding and answering questions on various subjects on SO
Jan 11 01:32:34 <groxx> but yeah.  SO is definitely more active in general.
Jan 11 01:33:01 <Chainfire> pretty much the only place in the world you can get an actual answer from an actual Google'r
Jan 11 01:33:12 <HevvyMetal> there isnt anything about NO LOGGING in the topic so we could log this channel and make it googleable
Jan 11 01:33:27 <Chainfire> nobody likes chatroom logging
Jan 11 01:33:39 <HevvyMetal> see could above
Jan 11 01:33:49 <Chainfire> besides, 99% of it, its just you talking
Jan 11 01:34:12 <HevvyMetal> do a grep | wc and prove it
Jan 11 01:34:31 * Chainfire shrugs
Jan 11 01:34:38 <HevvyMetal> so apologize
Jan 11 01:34:42 <groxx> I would grep, but I can't find it on google
Jan 11 01:34:43 <HevvyMetal> i'm tired of drive by trolls :)
Jan 11 01:34:46 <darken> don't forget you can collect magic internet points on stackoverflow :)
Jan 11 01:34:48 <HevvyMetal> uh huh
Jan 11 01:35:30 <darken> putting a good stackoverflow account + github account on a resumee is also not a bad idea
Jan 11 01:36:23 <HevvyMetal> heck it's almost required now darken
Jan 11 01:36:27 <HevvyMetal> i see that all the time
Jan 11 01:36:30 <HevvyMetal> what country are you in?
Jan 11 01:36:45 <darken> de
Jan 11 01:36:50 <HevvyMetal> nett
Jan 11 01:42:41 <TacticalJoke> Okay, I definitely prefer showing a ProgressBar to showing a ProgressDialog.
Jan 11 01:42:50 <TacticalJoke> In fact, I kinda hate dialogs in general on Android.
Jan 11 01:43:05 <groxx> agreed :)
Jan 11 01:43:22 <groxx> save interruptions for things that are abnormal, otherwise you become Vista.
Jan 11 01:43:37 <Chainfire> one of the style guides mentions this very thing
Jan 11 01:44:02 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.  I think what I hate most is those "Are you sure you want to quit?" interruptions.  A really bad UX, IMO.
Jan 11 01:44:08 <Chainfire> thats why they introduced the loaders around 3.0, iirc...
Jan 11 01:44:34 <groxx> loaders?  that seems orthogonal...
Jan 11 01:45:47 <Chainfire> for the case of indeterminate progress while opening an activity ... instead of using a progressdialog you'd use a fragment with a loader
Jan 11 01:45:54 <Chainfire> at least, that's how they were sold to me back then
Jan 11 01:46:07 <Chainfire> I don't think I've ever actually used a loader
Jan 11 01:46:48 <groxx> not sure I've heard of that one.  afaik Loader is an async-data-loading thing that's a pile of crap.
Jan 11 01:47:20 <groxx> probably sounded good in theory at the beginning, but it's terrible for reuse + it only works with things with an _id field (and nothing else!)
Jan 11 01:48:20 <HevvyMetal> does anyone have a 4.x nexus? im curious what the dialer looks like if you have a screenshot i havent really been able to find any while googling
Jan 11 01:52:20 <Chainfire> http://pocketnow.com/2013/12/26/install-google-dialer
Jan 11 01:52:25 <Chainfire> 4.4
Jan 11 01:52:33 <Chainfire> it looked different before
Jan 11 01:52:40 <HevvyMetal> hey thanks chainfire
Jan 11 01:52:44 <HevvyMetal> is that a nexus or what devicee?
Jan 11 01:53:09 <Chainfire> http://www.theandroidsoul.com/android-4-3-features/ what it looked like on 4.3...
Jan 11 01:53:19 <Chainfire> Nexus 5
Jan 11 01:53:29 <HevvyMetal> uh that isnt the dialer tho
Jan 11 01:53:40 <darken> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2650713/2015-01-11%2001.52.29.png
Jan 11 01:53:56 <Chainfire> it is
Jan 11 01:54:07 <Chainfire> you press the button in the bottom middle to get a dial pad
Jan 11 01:54:14 <HevvyMetal> no it's mostly the contacts and in call screen Chainfire
Jan 11 01:54:29 <HevvyMetal> darken has a dialer but is that lollipop or 4.x? thanks for that btw darken
Jan 11 01:54:38 <darken> 4.4.4
Jan 11 01:54:47 <Chainfire> what darken posted is what pops up if you press that button
Jan 11 01:54:58 <HevvyMetal> right so it was flat even before lollipop right?
Jan 11 01:55:05 <HevvyMetal> because on an S4 all the buttons are 3d shaded
Jan 11 01:55:10 <TacticalJoke> My app is so polite.  Please this; please that.
Jan 11 01:55:12 <Chainfire> but that screen is what you get when you press the phone icon on the launcher ;)
Jan 11 01:55:24 <HevvyMetal> yeah and that's the screen i wanted to see Chainfire !
Jan 11 01:55:33 <HevvyMetal> so stock 4.x was flat right?
Jan 11 01:55:34 <Chainfire> it has been flat for quite a while now
Jan 11 01:55:40 <HevvyMetal> and touchwiz is still 3d right?
Jan 11 01:55:41 <Chainfire> possibly all the way back to 4.0
Jan 11 01:56:01 <darken> TacticalJoke, gotta tell em who's in charge, "Wait now!" "Enter your mail ASAP!"
Jan 11 01:56:06 <HevvyMetal> that was my suspicion Chainfire but i didnt have any devies to test
Jan 11 01:56:21 <JesusFreke> "Please f' off" :D
Jan 11 01:56:27 <JesusFreke> gotta be polite, after all
Jan 11 01:56:31 <TacticalJoke> haha
Jan 11 01:56:39 <darken> doesn't the emulator dialer look the same?
Jan 11 01:56:39 <Chainfire> TouchWhiz on 4.4 is mostly flat but not completely
Jan 11 01:56:42 <HevvyMetal> I tried to tell my last asshat clients that but they wouldn' t listen at all
Jan 11 01:56:44 <Chainfire> TouchWhiz on 5.0 is flat
Jan 11 01:57:09 <HevvyMetal> Chainfire tw has green and red buttons and all the digits have borders and press animations
Jan 11 01:57:13 <HevvyMetal> on 4.x
Jan 11 01:57:19 <HevvyMetal> dunno about 5.x
Jan 11 01:57:26 <TacticalJoke> How about this:  if (new Random().nextInt(1000) == 0) { Toast.makeText(this, "Fuck you.", Toast.LENGTH_SHORT).show(); }
Jan 11 01:57:32 <HevvyMetal> but it's nothing like that
Jan 11 01:57:38 <TacticalJoke> In theory, it could come from any app.
Jan 11 01:57:39 <HevvyMetal> in 5.0 they moved a lot of buttons to the to of the dialpad
Jan 11 01:57:40 <Chainfire> HevvyMetal not on my Note4 ...
Jan 11 01:57:44 <Chainfire> and thats 4.4
Jan 11 01:58:11 <HevvyMetal> well every version is probably a little different Chainfire
Jan 11 01:58:13 <TacticalJoke> I guess better would be to postpone the message for an arbitrary length of time.
Jan 11 01:58:19 <HevvyMetal> that's what my last asshat clients couldnt understand
Jan 11 01:58:40 <HevvyMetal> they wanted a dialer that "mimics the stock dialer" but they could never define stock dialer
Jan 11 01:59:02 <HevvyMetal> then when i would ask them to define it they would pillory me, or if i hadn't completed the design (which they hadn't defined) they'd pillory me
Jan 11 01:59:20 <HevvyMetal> what would you do? I couldn't reason with these ppl and it bothered me a bit about something that should be easy to understand
Jan 11 02:00:06 <HevvyMetal> every vendor fucks with the dialer so pick one and run with it you know? but if i picked one and ran with it then they'd later complain so i wanted to nail it down
Jan 11 02:00:07 <HevvyMetal> anywayz
Jan 11 02:03:39 <HevvyMetal> i think it might be possible to get the "customized" theme of the dialer even if it has been customized but i didnt quite get that far into it
Jan 11 02:04:19 <HevvyMetal> there are some dialer themes in the source so it jsut depends if the vendor modified that or did their own
Jan 11 02:06:20 <HevvyMetal> did anyone here mess much with custom fields in the contact manager?
Jan 11 02:13:15 <shmooz> TacticalJoke: never say please in your app, tell them to just do it
Jan 11 02:14:37 <TacticalJoke> My pleases so far are "Please enter your username.", "Please enter your password.", and "Login failed. Please try again.".
Jan 11 02:15:29 <shmooz> it should be  "Username: "  "Password: " "Try Again."
Jan 11 02:15:45 <TacticalJoke> The first two are error messages (I use hints for 'labels').
Jan 11 02:15:58 <TacticalJoke> shmooz:  Doesn't "Try Again." seem rude, though?
Jan 11 02:16:05 <shmooz> not at all
Jan 11 02:16:27 <shmooz> they like to be told what to do in the most direct way
Jan 11 02:16:38 <HevvyMetal> "Suck it, Bitch!"
Jan 11 02:16:47 <HevvyMetal> not
Jan 11 02:17:12 <HevvyMetal> "Dear Madam would you kindly take me into your mouth"
Jan 11 02:17:26 <TacticalJoke> This looks interesting: http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/10853/should-an-interface-ever-say-please
Jan 11 02:17:36 <shmooz> I wouldn't even say try again, I would say "Invalid Login."
Jan 11 02:18:00 <HevvyMetal> That's why they probably have an EN_UK or whatever TacticalJoke
Jan 11 02:18:08 <HevvyMetal> so it's still english it's just 3x as wordy and pleady
Jan 11 02:18:27 <HevvyMetal> EN_US = "Your account is overdrawn"
Jan 11 02:18:50 <HevvyMetal> EN_UK = "Oh my. It seems that your account might not have the necessary balance."
Jan 11 02:19:01 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, we Brits love our politeness.
Jan 11 02:19:24 <HevvyMetal> Actually I loved it when I was in japan the ATM's actually bow at you
Jan 11 02:19:36 <HevvyMetal> at least some kind of animated bow thing going on
Jan 11 02:19:42 <HevvyMetal> here's your cassshuuu dear sir
Jan 11 02:19:44 <HevvyMetal> *bow*
Jan 11 02:19:51 <HevvyMetal> dt dt dt dt dt dt
Jan 11 02:19:52 <TacticalJoke> I like the first suggestion in that link:  "To save your file, provide a file name" instead of "Please provide a file name".
Jan 11 02:19:58 <shmooz> TacticalJoke: people don't expect an app to be polite, it's more professional if its short without extra words to be polite
Jan 11 02:20:14 <HevvyMetal> i think it's country dependent shmooz
Jan 11 02:20:21 <HevvyMetal> but certainly short is sweet on small devices
Jan 11 02:21:36 <TacticalJoke> "I'm terribly sorry for the convience, but would you mind providing a username?"
Jan 11 02:21:40 <TacticalJoke> inconvenience*
Jan 11 02:22:11 <HevvyMetal> yes that is like german in a way
Jan 11 02:22:12 <shmooz> that causes them to think about it and change their mind
Jan 11 02:22:16 <TacticalJoke> "Gosh, that's unlucky.  Usernames need to have at least three characters.  I guess we'll have to start all over again."
Jan 11 02:22:18 <HevvyMetal> in that case the most important word is at the end of the sentence
Jan 11 02:22:22 <shmooz> if you are short and direct, they don't think about it
Jan 11 02:22:40 <HevvyMetal> oh now shmooz wants the UX to be like a used car salesman
Jan 11 02:22:43 <HevvyMetal> "sign here"
Jan 11 02:22:51 <HevvyMetal> it's an interesting perspective
Jan 11 02:22:54 <shmooz> HevvyMetal: now you got it
Jan 11 02:23:04 <HevvyMetal> are you from new jersey shmooz?
Jan 11 02:23:18 <shmooz> Toronto
Jan 11 02:23:24 <HevvyMetal> interesting
Jan 11 02:23:33 <TacticalJoke> Microsoft says:  "Avoid the word "please," except in situations in which the user is asked to do something inconvenient (such as waiting) or the software is to blame for the situation."
Jan 11 02:23:36 <HevvyMetal> arent you candians all wordy like the brits? where did you get your brevity from shmooz?
Jan 11 02:24:25 <shmooz> nah we are all american wannabees here
Jan 11 02:25:39 <TacticalJoke> I used to date an American.  I found her really rude at times, and she sometimes thought my politeness was sarcasm.  Word use actually created huge arguments between us.
Jan 11 02:27:29 <Sindustry> It
Jan 11 02:27:48 <Sindustry> It's like putting in losing lottery tickets to a lotto system
Jan 11 02:27:57 <TacticalJoke> What is?
Jan 11 02:28:09 <Sindustry> after every entry, you get a popup saying "Thanks!" that you have to hit okay on just to continue
Jan 11 02:28:21 <Sindustry> Instead of just going back to the gd input page so I don't have to hit okay and load another page D:
Jan 11 02:28:59 <TacticalJoke> Actually, now that I think about it, I find a lot of people online amazingly rude.  I wonder whether a lot of it is just the culture-clash thing.
Jan 11 02:29:05 <Sindustry> No need for a computer to waste my time with nicities when I'm not trying to be socially impressed by it :P
Jan 11 02:29:08 <TacticalJoke> I had assumed it was just that text is blunt.
Jan 11 02:29:12 <capella> I used to date a rude american, then I married her
Jan 11 02:29:36 <Sindustry> TacticalJoke I have a quote that applies to this
Jan 11 02:29:36 <TacticalJoke> capella:  Are you Canadian?
Jan 11 02:29:40 <capella> Proving my ineptitude
Jan 11 02:29:50 <capella> heh - no I'm american also :p
Jan 11 02:29:53 <TacticalJoke> Okay.  lol
Jan 11 02:30:18 <HevvyMetal> you probably are a sarcastic bastard TacticalJoke
Jan 11 02:30:25 <HevvyMetal> it's just that that's normal in britspeak
Jan 11 02:30:38 <HevvyMetal> my wife is japanese and their usage of english is comical
Jan 11 02:30:42 <TacticalJoke> I use sarcasm for humour a lot, and from what I've seen Americans don't understand that at all.
Jan 11 02:30:51 <HevvyMetal> they don't think it's funny
Jan 11 02:30:56 <capella> I like Brit humor .. it's so Monty-Python
Jan 11 02:31:04 <HevvyMetal> when it's funny
Jan 11 02:31:14 <HevvyMetal> a lot of britspeak is just downright condescending and annoying
Jan 11 02:31:22 <TacticalJoke> Or I guess I should say "Americans are good at detecting sarcasm".  :D
Jan 11 02:31:22 <HevvyMetal> c3po is ok tho
Jan 11 02:31:25 <shmooz> sarcasm is not good humour because it can easily be misunderstood
Jan 11 02:31:26 <capella> But in such a nice way that you agree
Jan 11 02:31:38 <TacticalJoke> shmooz:  See, that's not the case here in England.  We are sarcasm experts.
Jan 11 02:31:43 <HevvyMetal> i think a little sarcasm is ok
Jan 11 02:31:44 <capella> We know the sarcasm, and we relate :D
Jan 11 02:31:44 <TacticalJoke> And we don't understand why Americans misunderstand it.
Jan 11 02:31:59 <HevvyMetal> uk has too much sarcasm
Jan 11 02:32:04 <TacticalJoke> Maybe.
Jan 11 02:32:08 <shmooz> TacticalJoke: Americans are sarcastic too
Jan 11 02:32:11 <HevvyMetal> in uk "i'd rather you didn't" == "i'll kill you if you do"
Jan 11 02:32:17 <HevvyMetal> not in the same degree
Jan 11 02:32:40 <TacticalJoke> People here use the "Yeah, that was great fun" kind of sarcasm a lot.
Jan 11 02:32:52 <HevvyMetal> i'm sarcastic myself but not in the same degree
Jan 11 02:32:58 <shmooz> but when I went to Turkey I tried doing sarcastic jokes and everyone was looking at me with confusion
Jan 11 02:33:00 <TacticalJoke> Like "I went to visit the in-laws and they barely said a word to me the entire night.  I had a wonderful time".
Jan 11 02:33:14 <HevvyMetal> yeah one time when i saw a movie and they said what did you think and I said "the popcorn was excellent!"
Jan 11 02:33:15 * capella is half-way down a "let's install chromium IDE and run a build" rabbit hole...
Jan 11 02:33:35 <HevvyMetal> what chromium ide? for what? android? why capella
Jan 11 02:33:40 <TacticalJoke> A lot of it is tone of voice, too, which is often lost online.
Jan 11 02:33:52 <shmooz> then I realized it's just bad humour anyway
Jan 11 02:33:59 <capella> THought I'd take a shot @ some Chromium patchs
Jan 11 02:34:23 <HevvyMetal> maybe in turkey they don't hate their in laws duh TacticalJoke
Jan 11 02:34:40 <shmooz> yes, sarcasm especially doesn't work across text communications
Jan 11 02:34:46 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, I'm actually wondering whether it'd be sensible to have a UK-English strings.xml which is politer than the US-English one.
Jan 11 02:35:22 <TacticalJoke> Because I, as a Brit, would find "Try again" kinda rude in an app.  But Americans might find "Please try again" annoying.
Jan 11 02:35:25 <shmooz> TacticalJoke: being short and direct is not being impolite
Jan 11 02:36:21 <HevvyMetal> how do they normally say "suck my dick" in britspeak?
Jan 11 02:36:24 <TacticalJoke> shmooz:  Let's say that they didn't enter a username and then clicked "Log in".  Would you find "Enter your username" rude?
Jan 11 02:36:25 <shmooz> that's why I would just say 'Invalid Login.'  and leave it at that
Jan 11 02:36:32 <HevvyMetal> just curious
Jan 11 02:36:45 <TacticalJoke> HevvyMetal:  "Bye then" in a sarcastic tone.
Jan 11 02:36:49 <shmooz> TacticalJoke:  I would say 'Invalid Username'
Jan 11 02:36:55 <TacticalJoke> Okay.
Jan 11 02:36:56 <capella> "off you go"
Jan 11 02:36:58 <TacticalJoke> haha
Jan 11 02:37:09 <HevvyMetal> bye then?
Jan 11 02:37:13 <shmooz> it's upto them to try again
Jan 11 02:37:13 <HevvyMetal> off you go sounds more likely
Jan 11 02:37:18 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.  Anything more than that would be uber-aggressive.
Jan 11 02:37:25 <shmooz> TacticalJoke: you want to be like a robot
Jan 11 02:37:28 <TacticalJoke> Like "We're about to fight" aggressive.
Jan 11 02:37:38 <TacticalJoke> shmooz:  Good point.
Jan 11 02:37:38 <shmooz> DOES NOT COMPUTE!
Jan 11 02:37:47 <TacticalJoke> "Sorry, User, I can't do that."
Jan 11 02:37:50 <HevvyMetal> what shmooz? off you go = smd?
Jan 11 02:37:57 <HevvyMetal> anything else too aggressive?
Jan 11 02:38:37 <TacticalJoke> An aggressive one that seems acceptable here in maybe-leading-to-a-physical-fight situations is "See you next Tuesday".
Jan 11 02:38:49 <TacticalJoke> Have you heard of that?
Jan 11 02:39:28 <HevvyMetal> what areyou talking about?
Jan 11 02:39:56 <TacticalJoke> shmooz:  Thanks for the input.  I'm probably gonna change to something like "A username is required.".
Jan 11 02:40:10 <TacticalJoke> HevvyMetal:  I'll have to ask you to google the meaning.  It's too much for this channel.  :)
Jan 11 02:40:16 <Leeds> anyone who thinks that Brits aren't aggressive haven't been a) to a football match, ever, or b) in any town centre after 11pm
Jan 11 02:40:31 <HevvyMetal> no you don't want "A user name is required"
Jan 11 02:40:35 <HevvyMetal> you tell them what to do
Jan 11 02:40:39 <HevvyMetal> "Enter username"
Jan 11 02:40:48 <TacticalJoke> I find that rude, to be honest.
Jan 11 02:40:52 <HevvyMetal> or "You must enter a username"
Jan 11 02:41:08 <HevvyMetal> not "xyz is broken"
Jan 11 02:41:14 <HevvyMetal> "To fix it, xyz"
Jan 11 02:41:36 <TacticalJoke> I guess "To log in, enter a username" is polite without 'please'.
Jan 11 02:42:21 <TacticalJoke> It's long, though.
Jan 11 02:42:22 <Leeds> TacticalJoke: you're not writing an invitation to your bloody wedding...
Jan 11 02:42:37 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, but I like treating the user well.
Jan 11 02:42:42 <Leeds> fuck them
Jan 11 02:42:50 <Leeds> users are bastards
Jan 11 02:43:32 <shmooz> lol
Jan 11 02:44:19 <shmooz> 'Get your filthy hands off my freaking app!'
Jan 11 02:44:41 <darken> TacticalJoke, is that a login activity/dialog ? or what are you writing
Jan 11 02:44:52 <TacticalJoke> It's a login Activity, for a reddit login.
Jan 11 02:45:13 <TacticalJoke> I'm not sure about failed logins.  I did have "Login failed. Please try again.", but that has the problematic 'please'.
Jan 11 02:45:19 <Leeds> "Username" "Password" "Login" "Invalid username/password"
Jan 11 02:45:22 <Leeds> then move on with your life
Jan 11 02:45:54 <HevvyMetal> how about "Enter a username to login"
Jan 11 02:45:54 <TacticalJoke> Leeds:  Are you advocating giving little thought to UX?
Jan 11 02:45:57 <shmooz> Leeds: exactly !
Jan 11 02:45:58 <darken> TacticalJoke, save yourself the whole translation / wording trouble. Put a "username" and a"password" label to the boxes, if it's wrong, change box color and change it. no words necessary
Jan 11 02:46:08 <Sindustry> TacticalJoke took me a second to find it lol
Jan 11 02:46:19 <darken> TacticalJoke, *shake the box if it failed :)
Jan 11 02:46:24 <Sindustry> "Those that know nothing of us, see only the shadows cast by the suns that are our trueselves."
Jan 11 02:46:32 <Leeds> I'm advocating *not* obsessing over every single bloody detail of your app - just get the thing *published*, into the hands of real users, then react to real feedback
Jan 11 02:47:12 <TacticalJoke> Paying attention to details is how you write great apps, so I don't understand that mentality at all.
Jan 11 02:47:45 <Leeds> you don't have an app, never mind a great app - and you don't have any users
Jan 11 02:47:50 <Leeds> move past that
Jan 11 02:47:58 <shmooz> no, let him obsess, it's good for us and for the app in the long run
Jan 11 02:47:59 <shmooz> like when he finds faster ways to do things , we can all learn from that
Jan 11 02:48:03 <TacticalJoke> So?  I will have an app with users, and those users will be affected by my current choices.
Jan 11 02:48:48 <pfn> look at the evolution of all great apps
Jan 11 02:48:49 <shmooz> TacticalJoke: don't let them rush you, take your time all you want
Jan 11 02:48:51 <Leeds> no, they will be affected by your future choices
Jan 11 02:49:07 <pfn> the don't launch without flaws or perfect optimization
Jan 11 02:49:24 <shmooz> rushed apps are dime a dozen
Jan 11 02:49:28 <pfn> it's an ocd pipe dream to be perfect
Jan 11 02:49:31 <TacticalJoke> Exactly, shmooz.
Jan 11 02:49:32 <Leeds> release early, release often
Jan 11 02:49:49 <Leeds> meh
Jan 11 02:50:01 <pfn> clueless people are a dime a dozen
Jan 11 02:50:27 <TacticalJoke> Time pressure is a thing.  I guess it's about finding that perfect balance.
Jan 11 02:50:34 <pfn> "rushed" and bad apps aren't the products of pros
Jan 11 02:51:22 <Sindustry> Attention to detail is a mark all of the greatest innovaters had.
Jan 11 02:51:50 <HevvyMetal> tell that to bill gates
Jan 11 02:51:54 <Leeds> a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush
Jan 11 02:52:04 <Sindustry> But in reality, need is the father of invention. Need is more important than want, because what we want isn't always the best :P
Jan 11 02:52:21 <Leeds> Sindustry: nobody needs another reddit app
Jan 11 02:52:24 <HevvyMetal> premature optimization is the cause of most hair loss
Jan 11 02:52:47 <Leeds> HevvyMetal: genetics, surely?
Jan 11 02:52:57 <TacticalJoke> I think, ultimately, 'want' and 'need' are the same thing.
Jan 11 02:53:06 <Sindustry> That's true Leeds, but the same could be said for linux and android distros
Jan 11 02:53:13 <TacticalJoke> "I want X" just means "I need X in order to Y" (where 'Y' might be 'feel good' or something).
Jan 11 02:53:22 <Leeds> Sindustry: genetics are the cause of linux? :)
Jan 11 02:53:35 <HevvyMetal> genetics what leeds?
Jan 11 02:53:45 <Leeds> HevvyMetal: cause of hair loss
Jan 11 02:54:09 <Leeds> pretty sure it is in my case, anyway
Jan 11 02:54:15 <Sindustry> I didn't respond to a comment without my name in front of it ^^
Jan 11 02:55:03 <HevvyMetal> well i had a little bald spot and some hair dresser told me to use some cream (yeah yeah)
Jan 11 02:55:03 <Sindustry> TacticalJoke that's some EXTREME line blurring
Jan 11 02:55:07 <HevvyMetal> and it actually worked
Jan 11 02:55:13 <HevvyMetal> i was pretty surprised
Jan 11 02:55:15 <Sindustry> A need is necessary to do something
Jan 11 02:55:21 <Sindustry> A want is necessary for nothing
Jan 11 02:55:35 <HevvyMetal> yeah well i tried arguing with managers about needs versus wants and it went nowhere
Jan 11 02:55:47 <HevvyMetal> but i think that people should distinguish and define what they are trying to do
Jan 11 02:55:50 <TacticalJoke> Even "I need X" is merely relative to a goal.  For example, "I need my remote control to change channel without getting up".
Jan 11 02:55:57 <HevvyMetal> totally got side tracked on wants versus needs
Jan 11 02:56:07 <TacticalJoke> Sindustry:  They both boil down to the same thing.
Jan 11 02:56:20 <TacticalJoke> "I want a Ferrari" simply means "I need a Ferrari to achieve the level of happiness I'm imagining".
Jan 11 02:56:32 <Sindustry> I can't believe this guy is aruging definitions used to explicitly mark the difference of mental thoughts
Jan 11 02:56:43 <TacticalJoke> Uhh, they're just words.
Jan 11 02:56:46 <TacticalJoke> Words are invented by humans.
Jan 11 02:56:54 <Leeds> Sindustry: I can't believe he's this uninterested in actually writing his app
Jan 11 02:57:11 <TacticalJoke> Leeds:  You seem to have a serious issue with me.  You constantly make these little attacks.
Jan 11 02:57:28 <Leeds> nope, a totally non-serious, trivial issue
Jan 11 02:57:36 <TacticalJoke> Leeds:  Can I suggest you simply ignore me?
Jan 11 02:57:37 <Sindustry> They can have any meaning you wish yes I know this. If you want to go that route, then your opinion is not a fact, it's just a thought in an overly developed animal.
Jan 11 02:57:45 <TacticalJoke> Because, to be honest, I'm getting tired of your little snipes.
Jan 11 02:57:58 <Leeds> you can suggest whatever you like... I could make the same suggestion back, but that would be boring
Jan 11 02:58:17 <HevvyMetal> would you bitches shut up
Jan 11 02:58:47 <Sindustry> lol leeds
Jan 11 02:59:01 <Sindustry> So what is your app that you need to build?
Jan 11 02:59:17 <Sindustry> I'd rather not read too far up or assume
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