**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 12 02:59:59 2015
Jan 12 03:01:28 <drinfernoo> does that happen only when you page over
Jan 12 03:01:59 <drinfernoo> ?
Jan 12 03:02:01 <lasserix> yeah but like what? which page hes on?
Jan 12 03:02:15 <lasserix> or stuff in the page? cause wouldn't gridview save some stuff automatically?
Jan 12 03:02:20 <JakeWharton> lasserix: the view hierarchy state of the pages
Jan 12 03:02:48 <JakeWharton> GridView would, if it was asked to
Jan 12 03:02:49 <drinfernoo> the position is saved if I page over, but not if I open another fragment
Jan 12 03:05:22 <lasserix> ah
Jan 12 03:05:44 <lasserix> drinfernoo: http://trickyandroid.com/saving-android-view-state-correctly/
Jan 12 03:06:30 <JakeWharton> Really if you just copy/paste the fragment one and remove the fragment bits you'd be fine.
Jan 12 03:06:35 <JakeWharton> It has exactly what you need
Jan 12 03:07:32 <drinfernoo> k I'll look at that later lol when I'm done playing munchkin
Jan 12 03:21:19 <TacticalJoke> God, I hate Unicode.
Jan 12 03:21:25 <TacticalJoke> Having to think about it; worry about it.
Jan 12 03:22:09 <TacticalJoke> Not sure whether I can get away with assuming that a Subreddit name doesn't have code-points outside of the BMP.
Jan 12 03:22:15 <TacticalJoke> subreddit*
Jan 12 03:23:03 <HevvyMetal> if my process gets force killed do I get a message in the logcat?
Jan 12 03:24:06 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: android does utf 8
Jan 12 03:24:36 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: a special message more than your app was closed?
Jan 12 03:24:38 <TacticalJoke> Right, but code-points can be represented by more than one Java char.
Jan 12 03:25:04 <HevvyMetal> right i'm asking if it says that or just silentl kills it?
Jan 12 03:25:15 <TacticalJoke> There are, for example, certain mathematical symbols that take two chars.
Jan 12 03:25:29 <HevvyMetal> also what are the odds that my service would be killed? or that my process would be killed if there is plenty of ram?
Jan 12 03:25:37 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: why are you worried about this?
Jan 12 03:25:42 <JakeWharton> HevvyMetal: There will be a log message
Jan 12 03:25:55 <JakeWharton> Odds are high it will be killed given a long enough timeline
Jan 12 03:25:58 <JakeWharton> Assume always
Jan 12 03:26:01 <TacticalJoke> Because I'm dealing with text in what could be any language (although will probably be English).  :)
Jan 12 03:26:23 <lasserix> you can also override onLowMemory to be notified when all background processes have been killed
Jan 12 03:26:42 <JakeWharton> May be notified
Jan 12 03:27:01 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: but why does it matter if it is more than one character?
Jan 12 03:27:09 <lasserix> can't you just do .length
Jan 12 03:27:14 <JakeWharton> No
Jan 12 03:27:28 <JakeWharton> Two chars might be one logical character
Jan 12 03:27:32 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  For parsing and stuff.  I can't assume, for example, that a character in a reddit comment is represented by one Java char.
Jan 12 03:28:34 <HevvyMetal> yeah but what about an equivalent sized process jakewharton? I'm tryin to see if a process would help or it would have the same exact chance of being killed if the UI itself is small
Jan 12 03:30:06 <JakeWharton> The chance is an implementation detail
Jan 12 03:30:54 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: codePointCount ?
Jan 12 03:30:58 <TacticalJoke> Yeah.
Jan 12 03:31:07 <TacticalJoke> Gotta use 'int' instead of 'char', too.
Jan 12 03:31:08 <lasserix> or divide size
Jan 12 03:32:41 <TacticalJoke> Someone from #reddit-dev (who appears to know what he's talking about) just told me that subreddit names currently cannot contain code points outside of the BMP, so I might not have to worry about this for subreddit names (and so might be able to get away with "Collections.sort(subreddits, String.CASE_INSENSITIVE_ORDER);").
Jan 12 03:33:12 <TacticalJoke> Though I'll almost certainly have to worry about most text.
Jan 12 03:33:26 <HevvyMetal> JakeWharton the chance is not an implementation detail if the odds of the service being killed is the same for a small ap
Jan 12 03:33:33 <HevvyMetal> it's a ROI question
Jan 12 03:33:47 <HevvyMetal> anyway i'll investigate it a bit more
Jan 12 03:34:24 <TacticalJoke> Even then, though, I'm assuming stuff about the user's locale.  Hmm.
Jan 12 03:36:02 <TacticalJoke> Languages are a pain.
Jan 12 03:36:34 <bankai_au> languages are fantastic. time is a pain
Jan 12 03:36:52 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: cant you just implement your own compataror, do a first pass to check if its safe to sort normally
Jan 12 03:36:53 <JesusFreke> pain is fantastic, languages are time.
Jan 12 03:36:58 <lasserix> if not do whatever you need to do normalize it
Jan 12 03:37:47 <JakeWharton> HevvyMetal: even if it is the same it can change at any time without notice
Jan 12 03:37:56 <TacticalJoke> JesusFreke:  lol
Jan 12 03:38:33 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  Have you seen this?  https://blogs.oracle.com/darcy/entry/iterating_over_codepoints
Jan 12 03:38:59 <lasserix> no i had not
Jan 12 03:40:03 <TacticalJoke> In short:  for(int codePoint, i = 0; i < s.length(); i += Character.charCount(codePoint)) { codePoint = s.codePointAt(i); }
Jan 12 03:40:30 <HevvyMetal> well at current adoption rates I'd have plenty of warning if it does change jackwharton
Jan 12 03:40:40 <lasserix> this is a problem because of tokenization?
Jan 12 03:40:49 <HevvyMetal> anyway this is a stupid quiz for some client and i'm just not gonna take the time to make a service out of this demo code
Jan 12 03:41:08 <HevvyMetal> we can talk about advantages to service but i dont even know what their price point is i put about 5 hours into this app and i think thats plenty for a demo
Jan 12 03:41:09 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: making a service is reallly really easy
Jan 12 03:41:24 <HevvyMetal> it is fairly easy but its gonna add 3 or 4 more hours gien everything
Jan 12 03:41:29 <lasserix> why?
Jan 12 03:41:33 <HevvyMetal> and...it might not be anymore robust
Jan 12 03:41:35 <lasserix> what is the service for?
Jan 12 03:41:42 <lasserix> why a service?
Jan 12 03:41:54 <HevvyMetal> well thats why i asked why as service ok what this demo app does is
Jan 12 03:42:03 <HevvyMetal> start up and get current location
Jan 12 03:42:09 <HevvyMetal> show that and mark it on a map
Jan 12 03:42:20 <HevvyMetal> when the user travels more than a mile, either notify the user or scroll the map
Jan 12 03:42:22 <lasserix> you dont need a service for that
Jan 12 03:42:25 <lasserix> oh
Jan 12 03:42:25 <HevvyMetal> i know i dont
Jan 12 03:42:34 <lasserix> maybe for tracking
Jan 12 03:42:40 <HevvyMetal> and if i did i dont thikn it would get killed any less often
Jan 12 03:42:49 <lasserix> just start sticky
Jan 12 03:42:54 <HevvyMetal> now wit the GPSLocation updates handler i still get updates as long as the process i alive
Jan 12 03:42:58 <lasserix> use a singelton
Jan 12 03:43:00 <HevvyMetal> well then i'd have to pass params through AIDL
Jan 12 03:43:03 <lasserix> check if its null
Jan 12 03:43:07 <lasserix> no you dont need AIDL
Jan 12 03:43:17 <lasserix> in fact dont use AIDL
Jan 12 03:43:20 <HevvyMetal> but is an 500kb service less likely to be killed than a 500kb app
Jan 12 03:43:24 <lasserix> unless you want to do a lot of unecessary work
Jan 12 03:43:26 <HevvyMetal> yea I know then it's in process versus out of process
Jan 12 03:43:34 <HevvyMetal> right so even if i did the inprocess version they might complain
Jan 12 03:43:40 <lasserix> as long as you handle the case of the service being restarted you dont care if it is killed
Jan 12 03:43:46 <HevvyMetal> so you think statics is ok and it works?
Jan 12 03:43:55 <lasserix> all you have to do it is make sure you handle it being restarted and start sticky
Jan 12 03:43:59 <lasserix> if it is killed it'll get restarted
Jan 12 03:44:11 <HevvyMetal> well no if you handle the case of the srevice restarts there's  all this data saving and need physical start and stop buttons because you then can't tell if it autostarted or not
Jan 12 03:44:23 <lasserix> just save it whenver it gets the location update
Jan 12 03:44:28 <HevvyMetal> whereas right now when they laynch it the vars are null
Jan 12 03:44:37 <HevvyMetal> see start or reset buttons above
Jan 12 03:44:41 <HevvyMetal> their spec doesnt ask for that
Jan 12 03:45:02 <HevvyMetal> once i wrote say the start location into the service data file, if the service restarted it would always use that base location right?
Jan 12 03:45:09 <HevvyMetal> there'd need to be a ui to clear that
Jan 12 03:45:12 <HevvyMetal> else when would it start?
Jan 12 03:45:15 <lasserix> well it would use whatever is there
Jan 12 03:45:16 <HevvyMetal> or restart?
Jan 12 03:45:23 <lasserix> you can put a boot reciever
Jan 12 03:45:24 <HevvyMetal> rigth so no way to restart without a button
Jan 12 03:45:29 <HevvyMetal> oh now reboot the phone
Jan 12 03:45:32 <lasserix> anyways
Jan 12 03:45:34 <lasserix> don't use AIDL
Jan 12 03:45:41 <lasserix> if you are going to do IPC just use broadcast recievers
Jan 12 03:45:49 <lasserix> and use primitives for data transfer, it'll make it 1000x easier
Jan 12 03:45:50 <HevvyMetal> anyway you agree that 99% of the time the process wont be killed and just the background updates is fine right for a demo code that i'm not getting paid to write?
Jan 12 03:45:56 <lasserix> yeah
Jan 12 03:45:58 <HevvyMetal> also how many hours do you put into demo codes?
Jan 12 03:46:00 <lasserix> it'll be fine
Jan 12 03:46:05 <lasserix> as little as possible
Jan 12 03:46:19 <HevvyMetal> and curious jake when you do ask for demo how much time do you expect them to put in? 1 hour? 4 hour? 12 hour?
Jan 12 03:46:20 <lasserix> in fact i would just use an alarm service, start an intent service, intentservice gets data writes it into a db
Jan 12 03:46:30 <HevvyMetal> well it's pretty much doen now
Jan 12 03:46:37 <HevvyMetal> i dont want to fuck with it too much more
Jan 12 03:46:42 <lasserix> then the app can just look up in the db and clear it when it needs too, very simple.
Jan 12 03:46:46 <HevvyMetal> too bad its raining and i cant test it out for the full 1 mile range
Jan 12 03:46:56 <lasserix> you melt in the rain?
Jan 12 03:47:06 <HevvyMetal> lasserix : when it needs too == ui button how else would it know to reset?
Jan 12 03:47:11 <HevvyMetal> yes and so does my phone
Jan 12 03:47:16 <HevvyMetal> i'm not gonna get the flu for this
Jan 12 03:47:17 <lasserix> when it needs too what?
Jan 12 03:47:22 <HevvyMetal> when it needs to reset?
Jan 12 03:47:26 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: where are you?
Jan 12 03:47:26 <HevvyMetal> how does it reset without a button?
Jan 12 03:47:33 <HevvyMetal> san diego
Jan 12 03:47:36 <lasserix> ah
Jan 12 03:47:47 <HevvyMetal> anyway lsserix you agree statics is ok and if the process dies that fine for this demo right?
Jan 12 03:47:48 <lasserix> yeah i am in oc that's why i was asking, are you doing this for someone in irvine by chance?
Jan 12 03:47:53 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: sure
Jan 12 03:47:54 <HevvyMetal> no texas
Jan 12 03:47:59 <HevvyMetal> ok that's two yeses
Jan 12 03:48:01 <HevvyMetal> what do you think jake?
Jan 12 03:48:02 <lasserix> just write it out into a db, then order the db by a timestamp
Jan 12 03:48:08 <HevvyMetal> what do yuo do in OC/irvine?
Jan 12 03:48:15 <lasserix> this
Jan 12 03:48:19 <impulse> anyone have success with sending sms with SmsManager?
Jan 12 03:48:31 <HevvyMetal> i dont need a db i just keep orig and last gps value and calculate distance
Jan 12 03:48:36 <lasserix> ah
Jan 12 03:48:37 <HevvyMetal> and i jsut have those two as statics
Jan 12 03:48:51 <lasserix> yeah then it is really easy, if you do do IPC you can just use a broadcast reciever
Jan 12 03:48:52 <HevvyMetal> this what lasserix? you do android in irvine? for experian or what?
Jan 12 03:49:15 <HevvyMetal> yeah i just think thats way overkill for this
Jan 12 03:49:19 <HevvyMetal> if i was getting paid yeah
Jan 12 03:49:25 <lasserix> trying to find another full time pos the startup i was at went under
Jan 12 03:49:36 <HevvyMetal> oic
Jan 12 03:49:38 <HevvyMetal> what startup was that?
Jan 12 03:49:46 <HevvyMetal> you live in OC? Irvine?
Jan 12 03:49:49 <g00s> lasserix oh no !
Jan 12 03:49:59 <HevvyMetal> a bunch of guys i know got laid off in Pasadena
Jan 12 03:50:33 <lasserix> a search technology startup, technically it is "alive" but all but three people were laid off so...
Jan 12 03:50:53 <bankai_au> g00s: https://www.youtube.com/embed/9J7GpVQCfms
Jan 12 03:50:53 <g00s> lasserix yeah i remember you were working on that
Jan 12 03:50:58 <lasserix> they were afraid to go into mobile, or something, which is said cause we could have done a lot
Jan 12 03:51:02 <lasserix> *sad
Jan 12 03:51:04 <lasserix> yeah
Jan 12 03:51:10 <lasserix> but got an interview this week :)
Jan 12 03:51:13 <HevvyMetal> were you doing mobile there?
Jan 12 03:51:16 <HevvyMetal> nice lasserix where at?
Jan 12 03:51:22 <HevvyMetal> for android interview or what?
Jan 12 03:51:28 <lasserix> a company nearby, yes for android
Jan 12 03:51:53 <TacticalJoke> Nice, lasserix.
Jan 12 03:52:26 <g00s> cool bankai_au
Jan 12 03:52:55 <bankai_au> the only wearable you really  need ;)
Jan 12 03:55:16 <g00s> with todays bettery tech, i don't see how its feasible yet
Jan 12 03:55:34 <g00s> battery tech is keeping everything back, including wearables
Jan 12 03:55:59 <yiati> It's interesting, but I just don't see how wearables are something we can interact with as much as our phones
Jan 12 03:56:16 <g00s> bankai_au is the band just a display, or is it hte whole machine ?
Jan 12 03:56:30 <yiati> The holding angle is too awkward. I like wearables but I'm with Cyril Mottier when he says apps for them should be glanceable
Jan 12 03:58:06 <yiati> https://labs.consol.de/blog/devoxx/devoxx-2014-day-5-wrap-up/
Jan 12 03:58:10 <bankai_au> g00s: i think just the display
Jan 12 03:59:33 <yiati> Ooh here we go, https://speakerdeck.com/cyrilmottier/introduction-to-android-wear-a-glimpse-into-the-future
Jan 12 03:59:40 <yiati> that's what I was looking for
Jan 12 03:59:44 <TacticalJoke> Okay, this is awesome.
Jan 12 03:59:50 <TacticalJoke> Subreddit names cannot contain anything fancy at all.
Jan 12 04:00:00 <HevvyMetal> i think one problem with my statics version is if you hide the app a lot it would probably leak a few mostly empty activity instances
Jan 12 04:00:08 <TacticalJoke> So I can just say Collections.sort(subreddits, String.CASE_INSENSITIVE_ORDER); and be done.
Jan 12 04:00:12 <HevvyMetal> i'd have to check for that
Jan 12 04:00:19 <TacticalJoke> Citation: https://github.com/reddit/reddit/blob/master/r2/r2/lib/validator/validator.py#L524
Jan 12 04:00:28 <HevvyMetal> is there an easy way in eclipse or AS to find out how many instances of a particular class are in the vm at the moment?
Jan 12 04:01:34 <TacticalJoke> reddit's incompetence makes my life easier.  :D
Jan 12 04:01:48 <yiati> HevvyMetal: You can do a heap dump
Jan 12 04:01:52 <TacticalJoke> Okay, I'm being harsh.
Jan 12 04:01:56 <yiati> pass it through hprof and analyze it
Jan 12 04:02:11 <HevvyMetal> thats from the IDE or I have to transfer the files around?
Jan 12 04:02:23 <HevvyMetal> but i'll google for that yiati thanks
Jan 12 04:03:00 <TacticalJoke> Python regexes are kinda cool.
Jan 12 04:03:31 <TacticalJoke> Never seen that \A..\Z thing before.
Jan 12 04:03:32 <HevvyMetal> so when you apply at jobs lasserix do they ask you for code samples or code quiz before or during the interview and what do they tend to ask you for?
Jan 12 04:03:39 <HevvyMetal> feel free to pm me if you think its too far offtopic
Jan 12 04:03:54 <lasserix> i dont know havent done too many
Jan 12 04:04:07 <lasserix> but that is the idea i guess
Jan 12 04:04:34 <bankai_au> different companies ask for and do different things
Jan 12 04:07:00 <yiati> HevvyMetal: btw --> https://developer.android.com/tools/debugging/debugging-memory.html
Jan 12 04:07:53 <yiati> You can use the Eclipse MAT software to analyze heap dumps or whatever heap analysis software. I like VisualVM myself
Jan 12 04:08:59 <impulse> anyone have success with sending sms with SmsManager? I can only send one text with sendTextMessage. After that I can't send or receive any texts at all.
Jan 12 04:09:02 <HevvyMetal> anything thats tightly integrated with the ide/adb so you dont have to do a lot of manual humping and shipping and analyzing with exnernal tools?
Jan 12 04:14:40 <yiati> HevvyMetal: The closest to tightly integrated is the clunky eclipse one when ADT was the standard. You might be able to find something integrated with Intellij but idk. You will still have to manually use the android hprof-conv tool in cli to convert a dump to a jvm readable hprof file
Jan 12 04:15:17 <HevvyMetal> ok if i bring up the task manager and kill it by flicking to the left I don't get any message in logcat when process was killed...that seems odd
Jan 12 04:15:24 <HevvyMetal> what about using ATK?
Jan 12 04:27:23 <capella-s3> I cannot code while someone watches over my shoulder
Jan 12 04:27:49 <capella-s3> You can see it when it's done
Jan 12 04:27:59 <TacticalJoke> Who's watching?
Jan 12 04:28:03 <yiati> wat?
Jan 12 04:28:07 <capella-s3> interviews
Jan 12 04:28:11 * TacticalJoke quickly puts binoculars away.
Jan 12 04:28:37 <HevvyMetal> capella-s3 but do they give you a coding test ahead of time?
Jan 12 04:28:57 <HevvyMetal> before people would ask for things that might take an hour -- aroutine or whatever...but 2 different opportunities have asked for full blown custom apps  its a pita
Jan 12 04:29:05 <capella> Coding test where I get the request, then provide the result is cool
Jan 12 04:29:20 <capella> But, interactive docs while I work freaks me out
Jan 12 04:32:39 <HevvyMetal> k and how many hours would you put on an upfront coding test/assignment?
Jan 12 04:33:20 <capella> I've worked for mozilla for free for three years :) So, as much time as it takes to do it right
Jan 12 04:33:28 <HevvyMetal> anyway today was a weird day one of the things that i might be doing to make money is interviewing intern devs for $100/hour
Jan 12 04:33:47 <HevvyMetal> and i gave her this skype interview coding test
Jan 12 04:33:54 <capella> A freidn of mine was recently approached to make a living doing tech reviews
Jan 12 04:33:54 <HevvyMetal> so my interview was doing her interview if tha tmakes sense
Jan 12 04:34:11 <HevvyMetal> and if they like it maybe i could do 10 or 20 / week
Jan 12 04:34:20 <HevvyMetal> but it was an interactive coding thing
Jan 12 04:34:45 <HevvyMetal> anyone used the GPS spoofing in the emulator?
Jan 12 04:35:15 <capella> No more interactive coding for me
Jan 12 04:35:32 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: depends on how bad you want the job
Jan 12 04:35:34 <capella> If I need help coding, what would you be paying me for?
Jan 12 04:35:39 <lasserix> but you probably dont want to put more than half a day
Jan 12 04:37:28 <HevvyMetal> i don't even know what they are paying lasserix
Jan 12 04:37:37 <HevvyMetal> and i dont want them to give them an app for free
Jan 12 04:37:49 <HevvyMetal> there was one company in LA that wanted an app that would take at least 3 days to do
Jan 12 04:37:59 <HevvyMetal> i was like fuck it
Jan 12 04:38:10 <HevvyMetal> and they said it would take only 8 hours to do
Jan 12 04:38:12 <capella> Why? That's nothing
Jan 12 04:38:15 <HevvyMetal> maybe on iOS
Jan 12 04:38:23 <HevvyMetal> 3 days of free work to apply at a job? I thik that's crazy
Jan 12 04:38:36 <capella> Not me ...
Jan 12 04:38:36 <HevvyMetal> who else has to put in 3 days of work for free?
Jan 12 04:38:55 <HevvyMetal> ok well let's say then that the avg company interviews 3 people
Jan 12 04:38:58 <capella> Initial negotiations can take a bit, but they do end
Jan 12 04:39:12 <HevvyMetal> and if you each have an equal chance you have a 1/3 chance of getting the job
Jan 12 04:39:12 <Agamemnus> no
Jan 12 04:39:18 <HevvyMetal> so you have to apply at 3 jobs to get close to 100%
Jan 12 04:39:21 <lasserix> the worst should be a day long interview
Jan 12 04:39:21 <Agamemnus> average company will interview 10 people
Jan 12 04:39:22 <HevvyMetal> so taht's 9 days of unpaid time
Jan 12 04:39:28 <Agamemnus> and 11 of them won't get the job
Jan 12 04:39:32 <HevvyMetal> right that's what i mean Agamemnus
Jan 12 04:39:40 <HevvyMetal> so you multiply it out and it's ridulous
Jan 12 04:39:55 <HevvyMetal> if every interview took 3 days the world would stop
Jan 12 04:40:00 <HevvyMetal> it really would
Jan 12 04:40:07 <Agamemnus> :|
Jan 12 04:40:13 <HevvyMetal> but see its not equal they dont interview you for 3 days
Jan 12 04:40:22 <HevvyMetal> they say "here go do this test" and they spend 0 time and you spend X time
Jan 12 04:40:24 <HevvyMetal> its very one sided
Jan 12 04:40:34 * Agamemnus is annoyed his numerical point was ignored.
Jan 12 04:40:47 <HevvyMetal> and...they get paid to do the interview whereas you get paid nothing
Jan 12 04:40:49 <HevvyMetal> i saw it Agamemnus
Jan 12 04:40:53 <HevvyMetal> it just seemed a little pithy
Jan 12 04:40:58 <HevvyMetal> are you underemployed as well?
Jan 12 04:41:05 <Agamemnus> the second one
Jan 12 04:41:13 <HevvyMetal> ok
Jan 12 04:41:14 <Agamemnus> i'm actually overbooked
Jan 12 04:41:20 <capella> My initial answer is always, "First you read my github commits"
Jan 12 04:41:24 <HevvyMetal> overbooked or what? second one what?
Jan 12 04:41:26 <Agamemnus> but still underemployed
Jan 12 04:41:34 <HevvyMetal> doing android or what?
Jan 12 04:41:36 <Agamemnus> "11 of them won't get the job"
Jan 12 04:41:38 <HevvyMetal> well usually i try to send code samples
Jan 12 04:41:42 <HevvyMetal> yeah i saw that Agamemnus
Jan 12 04:41:47 <HevvyMetal> i thought it was pithy
Jan 12 04:41:49 <Agamemnus> trying to be funny
Jan 12 04:41:50 <HevvyMetal> i said that 2x now
Jan 12 04:41:54 <HevvyMetal> gallows humor
Jan 12 04:41:56 <Agamemnus> i see
Jan 12 04:41:58 <Agamemnus> yes
Jan 12 04:42:04 <HevvyMetal> you're right and it sucks
Jan 12 04:42:09 <Agamemnus> no, javascript
Jan 12 04:42:28 <HevvyMetal> i had a client that i interviewed with in november that liked me kickin the can down the road saying they are "still waiting to talk to the ceo" for approval
Jan 12 04:42:38 <Agamemnus> shit dude
Jan 12 04:42:41 <HevvyMetal> why the fuk did they spend 8 hours interviewing me if they dont even have fucking approval for the job!?!?!?!
Jan 12 04:42:45 <HevvyMetal> is that ridiculous?
Jan 12 04:42:49 <Agamemnus> well
Jan 12 04:42:53 <HevvyMetal> they knew the price befor ethey interviewed me
Jan 12 04:42:55 <Agamemnus> at least they told you what's going on
Jan 12 04:43:06 <HevvyMetal> they told me they are incompetent is what they told me by defacto
Jan 12 04:43:09 <HevvyMetal> and they misled me
Jan 12 04:43:13 <HevvyMetal> so i'm seriously pissed off
Jan 12 04:43:15 <Agamemnus> I interviewed with an advanced robotics company over a year ago
Jan 12 04:43:20 <Agamemnus> no that's normal
Jan 12 04:43:24 <HevvyMetal> i would never go on an interview where they hadnt even asked for the budget!!!
Jan 12 04:43:31 <HevvyMetal> its normal to interivew people you dont have a budget for?
Jan 12 04:43:32 <Agamemnus> I did the standard application
Jan 12 04:43:35 <Agamemnus> Yes
Jan 12 04:43:37 <Agamemnus> It's all normal
Jan 12 04:43:39 <Agamemnus> Anyway
Jan 12 04:43:40 <HevvyMetal> i've never seen that
Jan 12 04:43:55 <HevvyMetal> most companies have a budget and a po for some amount and then shop based on that
Jan 12 04:43:56 <Agamemnus> I did the standard application, got a reply in 3 weeks and I was actually impressed they didn't bin it.
Jan 12 04:43:58 <HevvyMetal> but go ahead
Jan 12 04:44:10 <Agamemnus> I had a scheduled interview about a week after with the hiring manager
Jan 12 04:44:26 <Agamemnus> I talked to him, was really excited about the job and I think he liked what I was saying
Jan 12 04:44:35 <Agamemnus> He said "I'll talk to HR"
Jan 12 04:44:42 <Agamemnus> Next day
Jan 12 04:44:46 <Agamemnus> 12 in the morning
Jan 12 04:44:51 <Agamemnus> I get an email from HR.
Jan 12 04:44:56 <Agamemnus> Guess what it read.
Jan 12 04:45:07 <Agamemnus> s/said
Jan 12 04:45:28 <Agamemnus> He was saying "yeah we're expanding etcetcetc..."
Jan 12 04:45:34 <Agamemnus> the night before.
Jan 12 04:45:56 <HevvyMetal> he who? what did it say?
Jan 12 04:46:00 <Agamemnus> HR said "we're going to pass on you for a different candidate that we chose."
Jan 12 04:46:08 <HevvyMetal> and?
Jan 12 04:46:19 <Agamemnus> "and, we'll keep you in our list.."
Jan 12 04:46:25 <HevvyMetal> and?
Jan 12 04:46:28 <Agamemnus> And, it was a total betrayal of trust.
Jan 12 04:46:32 <HevvyMetal> that doesnt mean they didn't have the budget
Jan 12 04:46:33 <capella> That's the best you can hope for
Jan 12 04:46:34 <HevvyMetal> what trust?
Jan 12 04:46:41 <HevvyMetal> he said he'll talk to HR
Jan 12 04:46:45 <HevvyMetal> i dont see the problem
Jan 12 04:46:49 <capella> ++
Jan 12 04:46:58 <HevvyMetal> HR didn't agree and that was that
Jan 12 04:47:00 <Agamemnus> Yeah. He talked to HR, and HR sent in a demeaning and misleading email to me.
Jan 12 04:47:09 <HevvyMetal> what was misleading about it?
Jan 12 04:47:11 <Agamemnus> They didn't have the budget, I'm pretty sure
Jan 12 04:47:20 <Agamemnus> They couldn't have hired someone on the spot the next day!!
Jan 12 04:47:37 <HevvyMetal> the thing i think is awful about HR is they have tremendous power in an organization and noone can confront them because they are all afraid and they have no skills to speak of and organized bake sales in college
Jan 12 04:47:52 <HevvyMetal> they just said they were goin to pass
Jan 12 04:47:57 <Agamemnus> I told them to get me off the list.
Jan 12 04:47:59 <HevvyMetal> look i interviewed at an android company
Jan 12 04:48:07 <capella> You need to maintain a cautious professionalism when negotiating with potential employers
Jan 12 04:48:08 <HevvyMetal> last month too
Jan 12 04:48:10 <Agamemnus> No, that's not what they said, they said something else. They said they chose someone else.
Jan 12 04:48:11 <HevvyMetal> i thought i did pretty well
Jan 12 04:48:26 <HevvyMetal> then they passed on me didnt give a reason
Jan 12 04:48:35 <HevvyMetal> anyway, these guys have been trying to hire an android person for 8 months
Jan 12 04:48:39 <HevvyMetal> so they are just not happy with anyone
Jan 12 04:48:50 <Agamemnus> When I inquired as to whether they actually were just collecting candidates to be able to hire at some future point, they ignored me.
Jan 12 04:48:57 <HevvyMetal> thats true capella
Jan 12 04:48:57 <g00s> i'm surprised google doesn't handle hiring like apps submitted to Play : hire everybody, boot quickly :)
Jan 12 04:49:12 <HevvyMetal> a friend of mine works at google g00s
Jan 12 04:49:16 <HevvyMetal> ive thought applying there
Jan 12 04:49:18 <HevvyMetal> sounds like they pay a lot
Jan 12 04:49:20 <Agamemnus> No, see, they just want to be able to hire someone just waiting in the wings
Jan 12 04:49:31 <Agamemnus> Typical pig management
Jan 12 04:49:44 <HevvyMetal> who does Agamemnus ? waiting in wings how? how does that benefit who?
Jan 12 04:49:52 <Leeds> g00s: I'm sure I heard about one company which had a policy that they'd actually pay a leaving bonus to anyone who left in the first month, because they didn't want people who didn't want to stay...
Jan 12 04:49:57 <Agamemnus> "Eat your gruel soup. When we need you, we'll hire you, and make you eat gruel soup."
Jan 12 04:50:02 <g00s> Leeds zappos
Jan 12 04:50:10 <HevvyMetal> Leeds: that's amazon doesnt have to be first month
Jan 12 04:50:11 <Leeds> right, them
Jan 12 04:50:25 <capella> I saw that too! That was so cool
Jan 12 04:50:39 <HevvyMetal> i dont know why so many bad managers stick around
Jan 12 04:50:43 <Agamemnus> it benefits the company in the short term, because HR can say that they can get a job whenever they actually need to fill a spot.
Jan 12 04:50:57 <HevvyMetal> everyone spends so much time worrying about the proletariat when it's the mgrs that poke holes in the ship
Jan 12 04:50:58 <Agamemnus> get a job filled*
Jan 12 04:51:13 <HevvyMetal> shit yeah id join there just to quit
Jan 12 04:51:19 <HevvyMetal> 2nd day on job
Jan 12 04:51:20 <HevvyMetal> see ya!
Jan 12 04:51:27 <Agamemnus> they wouldn't let you though :)
Jan 12 04:51:33 <HevvyMetal> sure they do
Jan 12 04:51:40 <Agamemnus> they will put a mind reading apparatus on you
Jan 12 04:51:47 <HevvyMetal> anyway it's hell in the hiring world these days
Jan 12 04:51:58 <HevvyMetal> on paper android devs make a shitload of money and can dictate the terms
Jan 12 04:52:07 <HevvyMetal> in practice i've seen that very hard to put into place
Jan 12 04:52:19 <HevvyMetal> they want onsite relatively low salaries with rare exception
Jan 12 04:52:27 <Agamemnus> the thing is, from my experience, they just don't negotiate
Jan 12 04:52:36 <HevvyMetal> and odious hiring process only to put up with a lot of startup stress and get laid off after a few months
Jan 12 04:52:41 <Agamemnus> they won't even try to hire if they think you're expensive
Jan 12 04:52:55 <HevvyMetal> Agamemnus: who doesnt? What do they do, just draw a line in the sand or just punt without discussing it?
Jan 12 04:53:04 <Agamemnus> companies
Jan 12 04:53:15 <HevvyMetal> so elaborate
Jan 12 04:53:15 <Agamemnus> a lot of companies do things the wrong way but that's life I guess
Jan 12 04:53:17 <HevvyMetal> that can mean a lot of things
Jan 12 04:53:26 <HevvyMetal> in terms of them not negotiating
Jan 12 04:53:32 <HevvyMetal> i think companies wont face reality is the big problem
Jan 12 04:53:35 <Agamemnus> Here's another one
Jan 12 04:53:54 <Agamemnus> I was going to have a discussion with a guy who wanted a tricky guitar site built.
Jan 12 04:53:55 <HevvyMetal> if a manger thinks someone is worth $120k but the market says $150k instead of paying market, they hold out for 70s prices
Jan 12 04:54:08 <Agamemnus> We scheduled a Skype chat, right?
Jan 12 04:54:09 <HevvyMetal> for buying and selling houses noone cares what last years prices were but these managers want last years pricing etc
Jan 12 04:54:17 <HevvyMetal> ok
Jan 12 04:54:19 <Agamemnus> It was something like 11AM my time.
Jan 12 04:54:23 <HevvyMetal> mmm a web project
Jan 12 04:54:25 <Agamemnus> I was just starting to eat breakfast.
Jan 12 04:54:28 <HevvyMetal> was it from craigslist aka flakes lsit?
Jan 12 04:54:31 <Agamemnus> No
Jan 12 04:54:32 <HevvyMetal> breakfast at 11am?
Jan 12 04:54:40 <HevvyMetal> ok odesk? where did you find him? keep going
Jan 12 04:54:40 <Agamemnus> Elance. Anyway, they had the money, seemed like
Jan 12 04:54:44 <Agamemnus> So he messages me.
Jan 12 04:54:45 <HevvyMetal> elance!
Jan 12 04:54:51 <HevvyMetal> ok
Jan 12 04:54:54 <HevvyMetal> was he nekkid on skype?
Jan 12 04:54:55 <TacticalJoke> I need a browser-tab garbage collector.
Jan 12 04:54:59 <Agamemnus> He says, "here we are, me and another guy and a support team."
Jan 12 04:55:00 <TacticalJoke> One that figures out when I no longer want that tab.
Jan 12 04:55:01 <Agamemnus> like 5 guys
Jan 12 04:55:05 <HevvyMetal> TacticalJoke : the great suspender
Jan 12 04:55:11 <capella> hevvymetal: ew
Jan 12 04:55:12 <HevvyMetal> ok
Jan 12 04:55:18 <Agamemnus> And someone links an image of my face in the now team Skype chat.
Jan 12 04:55:31 <HevvyMetal> couldnt they already see you on skype?
Jan 12 04:55:33 <Agamemnus> Looks like they were trying to dig up information about me in the last second
Jan 12 04:55:36 <HevvyMetal> why would they need to do that?
Jan 12 04:55:36 <Agamemnus> No it's a CHAT
Jan 12 04:55:43 <HevvyMetal> audio chat or just text chat?
Jan 12 04:55:45 <HevvyMetal> ok go on
Jan 12 04:55:56 <Agamemnus> That's the kicker.. Then he tries to start a voice conversation.
Jan 12 04:56:07 <Agamemnus> I said "I'd rather not. I'm in the middle of breakfast."
Jan 12 04:56:24 <Agamemnus> we talked for like 2 seconds
Jan 12 04:56:34 <capella> Bad scheduling on your part for a job interview
Jan 12 04:56:35 <Agamemnus> I thought it was going to be a chat about what he actually wanted
Jan 12 04:56:41 <Agamemnus> It wasn't a job interview
Jan 12 04:56:50 <capella> Was it to lead to a job?
Jan 12 04:56:54 <Agamemnus> Anyway, he said "thank you, that's all."
Jan 12 04:56:56 <TacticalJoke> Agamemnus:  Maybe it was one of your users taking a mugshot in case you turned up at their home.  :D
Jan 12 04:57:02 <Agamemnus> And then they quit.
Jan 12 04:57:07 <Agamemnus> Point is.
Jan 12 04:57:26 <Agamemnus> It was going to be a technical chat about the site, not some 5-on-1 job interview
Jan 12 04:57:41 <Agamemnus> But they didn't feel comfortable with being idiots
Jan 12 04:57:48 <Agamemnus> so they quit
Jan 12 04:58:39 <Agamemnus> I really felt like they were the dumbest people in the world at that time.
Jan 12 04:58:41 <HevvyMetal> do you have to do the video surveillance thing when yu're workin on elance or odesk tho Agamemnus ?
Jan 12 04:58:49 <Agamemnus> no
Jan 12 04:58:58 <Agamemnus> i don't work hourly, never
Jan 12 04:58:58 <HevvyMetal> yeah i had a guy that wanted to talk to me and i said either friday (last week) or monday (this week)
Jan 12 04:59:22 <HevvyMetal> then they never got back to me to confirm one or the other and then they called me out of the blue on friday and i couldnt even hear the name of the people
Jan 12 04:59:24 <HevvyMetal> it was odd
Jan 12 04:59:35 <HevvyMetal> so you do project based or what? get anything in advance? how big projects?
Jan 12 04:59:39 <Agamemnus> It was such a ridiculous situation, a confluence of idiocy
Jan 12 04:59:44 <HevvyMetal> i only do hourly but I dont do odesk
Jan 12 04:59:50 <HevvyMetal> idiots are the most common people tho
Jan 12 04:59:56 <Agamemnus> He never mentioned he was going to get a billion other people in the chat
Jan 12 04:59:59 <HevvyMetal> i'm sick of working for and with idiots but that's what out there
Jan 12 05:00:03 <Agamemnus> or that they were going to spy on me
Jan 12 05:00:09 <Agamemnus> or that they wanted a VOICE CHAT
Jan 12 05:00:15 <Agamemnus> and if there was no voice chat, it's game over
Jan 12 05:00:26 <HevvyMetal> google serach is spying on you?
Jan 12 05:00:28 <Agamemnus> Seriously, if I don't do a voice chat then what? I can't code their shitty guitar site?
Jan 12 05:00:35 * Agamemnus breaks a guitar!
Jan 12 05:00:43 <HevvyMetal> tell us how you really feel
Jan 12 05:00:47 <Agamemnus> It just riles me
Jan 12 05:00:47 <HevvyMetal> how much was this project worth?
Jan 12 05:00:54 <HevvyMetal> what was the name of the guitar site?
Jan 12 05:00:57 <HevvyMetal> I play guitar
Jan 12 05:00:59 <Agamemnus> I don't know, we didn't get to the price yet
Jan 12 05:01:00 <HevvyMetal> I wonder if I heard of it
Jan 12 05:01:03 <capella> I play piano
Jan 12 05:01:05 <Agamemnus> We didn't get to anything technical
Jan 12 05:01:12 <Agamemnus> they were trying to interview me like idiots
Jan 12 05:01:21 <HevvyMetal> was it a big site like guitar center or music trader or elderly.com or what?
Jan 12 05:01:28 <Agamemnus> no the site wasn't built yet
Jan 12 05:01:36 <Agamemnus> it was just a mockup at the time
Jan 12 05:01:38 <HevvyMetal> what kind of quesitons did they ask you? i thought it was just 2 seconds before you hug up
Jan 12 05:01:41 <Agamemnus> I don't remember the name
Jan 12 05:01:56 <HevvyMetal> so why get so upset maybe they wanted to spend $500
Jan 12 05:02:02 <Agamemnus> I forgot, some really stupid interview-like questions, which I countered with my own realistic questions
Jan 12 05:02:14 <HevvyMetal> thats why i'm mad at this test i just more or leess finished i dont even know a salary range
Jan 12 05:02:18 <Agamemnus> oh and yeah
Jan 12 05:02:29 <HevvyMetal> i dont deal with elance or odesk at all
Jan 12 05:02:31 <Agamemnus> I do pretty technically advanced things on Elance nowadays
Jan 12 05:02:44 <Agamemnus> i'm working with a museum currently
Jan 12 05:02:45 <HevvyMetal> such as?
Jan 12 05:02:58 <Agamemnus> making some interactives for them
Jan 12 05:03:02 <HevvyMetal> and how do you get paid?do you bypass elance and their markup/surveillance/payment or there is some escrow or what?
Jan 12 05:03:08 <Agamemnus> historycanvas.com
Jan 12 05:03:11 <Agamemnus> throug elance
Jan 12 05:03:12 <HevvyMetal> when i think of elance/odesk i think about cheap overseas programmers for $12/hr
Jan 12 05:03:20 <HevvyMetal> cuz thats what i see
Jan 12 05:03:24 <HevvyMetal> or project budget $300
Jan 12 05:03:29 <HevvyMetal> bids closing in 90 days
Jan 12 05:03:32 <Agamemnus> that's a shame, but that is what they are doing nowadays
Jan 12 05:03:41 <Agamemnus> it was better years ago
Jan 12 05:03:42 <HevvyMetal> its like wtf does it make any money?
Jan 12 05:03:48 <HevvyMetal> i think they should get rid of all the $12 people
Jan 12 05:03:51 <HevvyMetal> and just have $50 people
Jan 12 05:03:53 <Agamemnus> ok i need to make my spec
Jan 12 05:04:01 <HevvyMetal> then they get 10% of $50 not 10% of $12
Jan 12 05:04:08 <Agamemnus> my friend promised the client a game spec Monday morning ._.
Jan 12 05:04:12 <Agamemnus> and I have to write it
Jan 12 05:04:21 <HevvyMetal> well good luck with that
Jan 12 05:04:38 <Agamemnus> i feel a little better now
Jan 12 05:04:54 <Agamemnus> Anyway
Jan 12 05:05:02 <Agamemnus> There might still be some awesome clients on Elance
Jan 12 05:05:08 <Agamemnus> But you have to look
Jan 12 05:08:22 <HevvyMetal> yeah i gave up on them and odesk
Jan 12 05:08:26 <HevvyMetal> there is also guru.com
Jan 12 05:08:49 <Agamemnus> i tried those other sites a very long time ago, nothin
Jan 12 05:08:54 <Agamemnus> elance was my first success
Jan 12 05:09:02 <Agamemnus> about 2011
Jan 12 05:09:13 <HevvyMetal> how much do you get out of a typical elance project?
Jan 12 05:09:15 <HevvyMetal> 1 week for $500?
Jan 12 05:09:33 <regan> Lol
Jan 12 05:09:48 <Agamemnus> I quote $75 an hour.
Jan 12 05:09:53 <Agamemnus> But it is actually less
Jan 12 05:10:03 <Agamemnus> It depends on if it is a big project or not.
Jan 12 05:10:17 <Agamemnus> I've been increasing the size of the projects
Jan 12 05:10:32 <Agamemnus> the museum one is on a grant basis, and they have a 4K budget for each project
Jan 12 05:10:43 <Agamemnus> usually it is 800-2k
Jan 12 05:11:12 <Agamemnus> the other thing though is that you can get a lot of connections that can become valuable
Jan 12 05:11:13 <HevvyMetal> i thought you dont do hourly
Jan 12 05:11:19 <Agamemnus> I don't
Jan 12 05:11:29 <Agamemnus> But that's what I give as an approximation to the client.
Jan 12 05:11:30 <TacticalJoke> This was posted to the front page of /r/androiddev: http://yossisegev.com/2015/01/the-recylcerview/
Jan 12 05:11:31 <TacticalJoke> Srsly?
Jan 12 05:11:38 <TacticalJoke> He didn't notice the typo in the URL.
Jan 12 05:11:50 <Agamemnus> UNREAL
Jan 12 05:11:57 <Agamemnus> Maybe he needs double glasses.
Jan 12 05:12:15 <Agamemnus> The spec I need to finish for my friend? He was a client at first
Jan 12 05:12:17 <TacticalJoke> It's just... dumb.
Jan 12 05:12:37 <Agamemnus> TacticalJoke: also, his cartoon face is fat.
Jan 12 05:12:45 <Agamemnus> and he needs a good shave
Jan 12 05:12:46 <HevvyMetal> TacticalJoke: considering google is incorrrectly spelled and they didn't do it on purpose, that's pretty minor
Jan 12 05:13:04 <HevvyMetal> yea it's a shitty article
Jan 12 05:13:16 <HevvyMetal> TacticalJoke would be a very tough boss to work for
Jan 12 05:13:28 <Agamemnus> I killed for less.
Jan 12 05:13:34 <HevvyMetal> indeed
Jan 12 05:13:49 <HevvyMetal> I'm not sure if he understands sarcasm tho Agamemnus I hear he's british and all
Jan 12 05:13:57 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: what are you going on about?
Jan 12 05:15:17 <Agamemnus> http://cheezburger.com/4930131968
Jan 12 05:15:26 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  "The RecylcerView" is in big, bold letters at the top of that page.
Jan 12 05:15:46 <lasserix> oh
Jan 12 05:15:54 <lasserix> maybe he is non native english?
Jan 12 05:16:24 <capella-s3> or just a poor typer :p
Jan 12 05:16:55 <capella-s3> My subscription to the Wall Street journal has typos everyday
Jan 12 05:17:06 <HevvyMetal> it's nitpicking
Jan 12 05:17:09 <TacticalJoke> Even in the title, though?
Jan 12 05:17:14 <HevvyMetal> it's 1 mispellin out fo the whole page
Jan 12 05:17:16 <JakeWharton> TacticalJoke: to be fair, the "front page" or /r/androiddev isn't really anything special
Jan 12 05:17:16 <Agamemnus> Shit man, my grammar book has typos
Jan 12 05:17:27 <TacticalJoke> True, JakeWharton.
Jan 12 05:19:08 <capella> Typo's in professional mags/ subs annoy me ... they're more prevalent than I like ... I'd like to do a webapp to allow readers to flag and feed them back
Jan 12 05:19:25 <Agamemnus> "Typo's"
Jan 12 05:19:32 <capella> (Clickable button vs email-ish)
Jan 12 05:19:46 <Agamemnus> It's "typos"
Jan 12 05:19:54 * Agamemnus throws capella into the well...
Jan 12 05:19:59 <TacticalJoke> I was reading a post earlier on the English-language SO in which someone presented themselves as a language expert.  Then they used "in regards to".  Wut.
Jan 12 05:20:13 <capella> Heh
Jan 12 05:20:24 <capella> Well "hopefully" they learn their lesson
Jan 12 05:20:31 <JesusFreke> What's wrong with "in regards to"?
Jan 12 05:20:38 <TacticalJoke> It's always "in regard to".
Jan 12 05:20:49 <Agamemnus> http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/regard-versus-regards
Jan 12 05:20:57 <lasserix> all ur regardz r belong to i
Jan 12 05:21:02 <JesusFreke> ah. yeah, I guess so. "regards" didn't trigger my grammar spidey sense though.
Jan 12 05:21:15 <capella> "with regard to"
Jan 12 05:21:17 <HevvyMetal> #english
Jan 12 05:21:19 <HevvyMetal> #grammar
Jan 12 05:21:25 <TacticalJoke> The only "regards" one is "as regards".
Jan 12 05:21:30 <HevvyMetal> #nitpick
Jan 12 05:21:31 <TacticalJoke> Or, of course, signing a letter or whatever.
Jan 12 05:21:35 <HevvyMetal> #android-dev
Jan 12 05:21:45 <HevvyMetal> which channel is most appropriate for that?
Jan 12 05:22:00 <capella> #l10n
Jan 12 05:22:12 <capella> maybe? :/
Jan 12 05:22:21 <lasserix> all ur regardz r belong to i
Jan 12 05:22:38 <HevvyMetal> m12n
Jan 12 05:22:38 <capella> "There is some crap up with which I will not put"
Jan 12 05:22:44 <HevvyMetal> see if you can figure that one out
Jan 12 05:22:49 <Agamemnus> It's deFIANTELY #English
Jan 12 05:23:08 <lasserix> lets eat grandma
Jan 12 05:23:29 <HevvyMetal> well it sucks the spell corrector on RecyclerView would also show a squiggly so they didn't notice
Jan 12 05:23:33 <HevvyMetal> total nit pick tho
Jan 12 05:23:47 <HevvyMetal> i hate seeing that stuff in supposedly professional articles tho (cnn, cbs, sfgate, utsandiego)
Jan 12 05:24:21 <Agamemnus> yeah, but at least it's legible
Jan 12 05:24:21 <HevvyMetal> well i have an interview on tuesday for a streaming media company
Jan 12 05:24:31 * capella eats gramma defiantly
Jan 12 05:24:35 <HevvyMetal> or 2nd interview
Jan 12 05:24:42 <lasserix> in sd?
Jan 12 05:24:49 <HevvyMetal> its a remote position
Jan 12 05:24:55 <TacticalJoke> The people in those articles -- why don't they google?
Jan 12 05:24:56 <Agamemnus> Good luck, don't stay up too late or you might do something stupid
Jan 12 05:25:02 <Agamemnus> Like correct their grammar ._.
Jan 12 05:25:05 <TacticalJoke> "Hi, Grammar Girl.  Can you answer this question about the word 'regards'?"
Jan 12 05:25:19 <lasserix> maybe its an inside joke
Jan 12 05:25:19 <HevvyMetal> that can be your new nick tactical
Jan 12 05:25:23 <yiati> #English is pretty busy most the time
Jan 12 05:25:23 <TacticalJoke> You can google in a few seconds.
Jan 12 05:25:24 <HevvyMetal> we can call you GG from now on
Jan 12 05:25:25 <lasserix> like his variable name as a method arguement
Jan 12 05:25:37 <lasserix> so it doesn't collide with his class name
Jan 12 05:25:40 <lasserix> mRecyclerView
Jan 12 05:25:44 <lasserix> mRecylcerView
Jan 12 05:25:50 <capella> mChocolate
Jan 12 05:25:50 <Agamemnus> HevvyMetal: honestly, that sounds pretty boring.
Jan 12 05:25:52 <lasserix> cause he doesn't like this
Jan 12 05:25:56 <HevvyMetal> i hate the whole mThing
Jan 12 05:25:58 <HevvyMetal> i prefer _thing
Jan 12 05:26:05 <HevvyMetal> its the C# in me
Jan 12 05:26:13 <HevvyMetal> i bring a little with me and dust my code with it
Jan 12 05:26:14 <Agamemnus> streaming media? I can't think of anything innovative they would do
Jan 12 05:26:16 <capella> _thing is a local method var, not a global class
Jan 12 05:26:18 <lasserix> how about theVariable?
Jan 12 05:26:20 <Agamemnus> maybe customer support
Jan 12 05:26:29 <HevvyMetal> Agamemnus: its a new streaming media company like pandora
Jan 12 05:26:37 <HevvyMetal> they want a tablet version on android
Jan 12 05:26:49 <Agamemnus> so gui design maybe
Jan 12 05:26:59 <HevvyMetal> lasserix: theVariable is a local var and _theVar is a member variable
Jan 12 05:27:08 <HevvyMetal> but it reads a lot nicer than mTheVar
Jan 12 05:27:18 <HevvyMetal> Agamemnus yeah and implementation
Jan 12 05:27:26 <lasserix> i dont use _ prefix that is just unecessary
Jan 12 05:27:27 <HevvyMetal> not sure if gonna use fragmnets or separte layout/activities
Jan 12 05:27:32 <Agamemnus> i guess it could be a "living"
Jan 12 05:27:35 <capella> yah, I was larned on mTheThing, it's easier to grok quickly the scope
Jan 12 05:27:36 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: custom views
Jan 12 05:27:36 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, prefixes just reduce readability.
Jan 12 05:27:47 <HevvyMetal> it is necessary to disambiguate member variables from local variables
Jan 12 05:27:50 <lasserix> and they are a pain if they are special characters
Jan 12 05:27:54 <capella> Javascript standards include _theThing
Jan 12 05:27:58 <HevvyMetal> what you want to have to go look up which are member and whic are local?
Jan 12 05:28:09 <HevvyMetal> I think m makes it a member, and _ makes it cleaner
Jan 12 05:28:09 <lasserix> thats what theLocalScopeVariable is for
Jan 12 05:28:12 <g00s> i never have so many i get condfused
Jan 12 05:28:13 <HevvyMetal> but you can use whatever
Jan 12 05:28:17 <HevvyMetal> heh right
Jan 12 05:28:28 <HevvyMetal> you havent worked on big classes then goos
Jan 12 05:28:32 <lasserix> but that s just because i totalyl dislike .this
Jan 12 05:28:43 <HevvyMetal> i could easily have 20 member variables and 5 locals
Jan 12 05:28:54 <lasserix> why u violate SRP?
Jan 12 05:29:01 <lasserix> and so proud of it!
Jan 12 05:29:02 <TacticalJoke> It's rare that I have to say something like "this.name = name;", but even when I do I don't mind.  :)
Jan 12 05:29:04 <HevvyMetal> hats SRP?
Jan 12 05:29:09 <g00s> lol
Jan 12 05:29:14 <TacticalJoke> Who's violating the SRP?
Jan 12 05:29:17 <HevvyMetal> I dont use foo () {
Jan 12 05:29:17 <capella> oh god, this again
Jan 12 05:29:18 <lasserix> HevvyMetal:
Jan 12 05:29:18 <HevvyMetal> }
Jan 12 05:29:21 <HevvyMetal> style either
Jan 12 05:29:22 <lasserix> hehehehe
Jan 12 05:29:39 <HevvyMetal> i just think mFoo is pedantic
Jan 12 05:30:01 <lasserix> g00s just knows how to encapsulate his objects and keep them concise
Jan 12 05:30:13 <HevvyMetal> so do I
Jan 12 05:30:15 <lasserix> kdoesn't need a taxonomy for variables
Jan 12 05:30:20 <HevvyMetal> use what you want
Jan 12 05:30:24 <HevvyMetal> most members are non public anyway
Jan 12 05:30:29 <HevvyMetal> so the users will never see the _
Jan 12 05:30:30 <JesusFreke> most IDEs will show a local variable different than a field, anyway
Jan 12 05:30:38 <HevvyMetal> i havent seen ones that do JesusFreke
Jan 12 05:30:50 <TacticalJoke> Any step whatsoever towards Systems Hungarian Notation should be met with horror.
Jan 12 05:30:57 <HevvyMetal> and if they do then why use m?
Jan 12 05:31:03 <HevvyMetal> right and m is a hungarian hangover
Jan 12 05:31:12 <HevvyMetal> its like String szFoo
Jan 12 05:31:17 <HevvyMetal> or worse String mSzFoo
Jan 12 05:31:21 <lasserix> its actually for camel case clarity
Jan 12 05:31:47 <HevvyMetal> anyway its a personal preference with some historical context
Jan 12 05:31:57 <yiati> Note about prefixing variables, it's called Hungarian Notation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation
Jan 12 05:32:13 <HevvyMetal> yes and hungarian is considered a bad thing these days
Jan 12 05:32:43 <TacticalJoke> I remember dealing with code like m_pszAddress.  :/
Jan 12 05:33:03 <yiati> One might find it ugly, but what's inherently wrong with it
Jan 12 05:33:09 <JesusFreke> HevvyMetal: http://imgur.com/G0g6EvY
Jan 12 05:33:23 <TacticalJoke> yiati:  It makes code harder to read and understand.
Jan 12 05:33:36 <capella> intelliJ ftw \o/
Jan 12 05:34:24 <yiati> TacticalJoke: That's not an objective reason though
Jan 12 05:34:32 <lasserix> yiati: it slows you down typing
Jan 12 05:34:37 <TacticalJoke> What do you mean by 'objective'?
Jan 12 05:34:55 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: that's subjective, some people may find it easier
Jan 12 05:34:58 <lasserix> but it slows you down
Jan 12 05:35:00 <HevvyMetal> ok so AS can do that but i dont want to depend on colorization for taht nor peoples color ability
Jan 12 05:35:05 <HevvyMetal> anyway not worth arguing about
Jan 12 05:35:18 <lasserix> by adding unecessary characters that are positioned in places that your fingers have to take extra (and unnecessary) time to enter
Jan 12 05:35:38 <HevvyMetal> I cant understand why so many people do something like
Jan 12 05:35:46 <lasserix> ^^objective technical reason :)
Jan 12 05:35:49 <TacticalJoke> It's not really subjective, though.  It could be a fact that, for example, 99% of humans find such code much harder to read.
Jan 12 05:35:58 <HevvyMetal> ((TextView)findViewById(id...)setText("foo");
Jan 12 05:36:00 <yiati> lasserix: If we are adding ide features then with good tab complete extra characters may not be a valid point
Jan 12 05:36:04 <HevvyMetal> whereas i just have a short cut so I can sset
Jan 12 05:36:06 <HevvyMetal> say
Jan 12 05:36:11 <HevvyMetal> setTV(id, "foo");
Jan 12 05:36:15 <HevvyMetal> and it's so much more readable
Jan 12 05:36:15 <drinfernoo> JakeWharton and lasserix, so based on FragmentStatePagerAdapter, I should be able to save my state using an int instead of a Fragment.SavedState?
Jan 12 05:36:15 <TacticalJoke> I'm making an objective claim.  :)
Jan 12 05:36:40 <drinfernoo> I still haven't figured this out though :( http://pastebin.com/b2Qv28zM
Jan 12 05:36:56 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  Right.  Both claims are equally objective.  We're both saying something like "Humans find this style harder to read/type/whatever".
Jan 12 05:37:15 <JakeWharton> drinfernoo: don't specialize it
Jan 12 05:37:46 <JakeWharton> Just pass a SparseArray<Parcelable> to the view and let it do what it wants
Jan 12 05:38:05 <lasserix> drinfernoo: int what?
Jan 12 05:38:10 <lasserix> drinfernoo: you need to post code,
Jan 12 05:38:21 <TacticalJoke> Imagine if we took Hungarian to an extreme.  Something like this:  String m_stringvariablewhichareimmutableinjavaUsername;
Jan 12 05:38:21 <HevvyMetal> i think people should use what they want including braces and indent style
Jan 12 05:38:32 <yiati> yep
Jan 12 05:38:33 <TacticalJoke> Almost everyone would find that code harder to read.
Jan 12 05:38:37 <TacticalJoke> It's a continuum.
Jan 12 05:38:40 <HevvyMetal> yes we all get that TacticalJoke
Jan 12 05:38:44 <yiati> It's good to have convention within a team at least
Jan 12 05:38:48 <lasserix> no no go on
Jan 12 05:38:52 <lasserix> and on and on and on
Jan 12 05:38:54 <HevvyMetal> yes repeat it a few more times
Jan 12 05:38:56 <lasserix> :)
Jan 12 05:39:06 <HevvyMetal> I didn't catch it cuz I'm like stupid and stuff
Jan 12 05:39:34 <HevvyMetal> chk ur pm lasserix?
Jan 12 05:40:17 <yiati> I do like how white case sensitive languages enfore a common look
Jan 12 05:40:25 <yiati> whitespace wise at least
Jan 12 05:40:33 <Leeds> whitecase?
Jan 12 05:40:35 <drinfernoo> lasserix, did you look at that paste?
Jan 12 05:40:38 <yiati> whitespace* lol
Jan 12 05:40:40 <drinfernoo> that's my big problem
Jan 12 05:40:46 <HevvyMetal> yeah i dont like whitespace langs like python make me ill
Jan 12 05:40:57 <HevvyMetal> it looks like some kiddie kodez
Jan 12 05:41:00 <lasserix> you are referencing some class that doesn't implement parceable ? idk
Jan 12 05:41:11 <TacticalJoke> I love the look of Python.  I have heard complaints about copy-pasting code and about merges, though, because of the significant whitespace.
Jan 12 05:41:13 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: its concise
Jan 12 05:41:40 <Leeds> python works just fine like that - you just indent your code as usual, without needing {{{}}} around everything
Jan 12 05:41:57 <yiati> I hated it until I actually used it
Jan 12 05:42:31 <HevvyMetal> it's consise but fiddly
Jan 12 05:42:44 <HevvyMetal> do I want code to break because i hit a accidental space without noticing it?
Jan 12 05:42:52 <HevvyMetal> how does it handle 4 or 8 charter tabs/spaces?
Jan 12 05:43:07 <HevvyMetal> and i always like a few brash
Jan 12 05:43:19 <drinfernoo> lasserix, no its unrelated
Jan 12 05:43:19 <HevvyMetal> if (foo) {} else {} one liners
Jan 12 05:43:20 <yiati> only use spaces, bam
Jan 12 05:43:33 <lasserix> drinfernoo: well a stacktrace like that is useless without some code
Jan 12 05:43:40 <HevvyMetal> only use spaces? so now i have to hit 4 spaces and not a tab?
Jan 12 05:43:45 <deebo> you can easily break java code with nbsp (ctrl-space) too without noticing
Jan 12 05:44:03 <HevvyMetal> i'm sure you'll get an error at compile time tho
Jan 12 05:44:06 <lasserix> HevvyMetal: a smart IDE will show you what "white space" related errors
Jan 12 05:44:07 <HevvyMetal> anyway once again use what you want
Jan 12 05:44:20 <yiati> HevvyMetal: No most editors have the option to treat tabs as "x many spaces"
Jan 12 05:44:23 <HevvyMetal> so now its back to ide and have to use a magic ide....
Jan 12 05:44:34 <HevvyMetal> most of these same people use emacs and vim (perl/ruby/python)
Jan 12 05:44:37 <HevvyMetal> anyway use it!
Jan 12 05:44:40 <lasserix> its called not reinventing the wheel
Jan 12 05:44:43 <HevvyMetal> use groovy or scala or whatever
Jan 12 05:44:59 <yiati> emacs and vim both have easy tabs to spaces support natively
Jan 12 05:44:59 <JakeWharton> Ew, no
Jan 12 05:45:07 <TacticalJoke> yiati:  But then you're reliant on the editor.
Jan 12 05:45:23 <TacticalJoke> If you view code in Google Chrome on GitHub and the author has used tabs, you'll see eight-space-wide indents.
Jan 12 05:45:44 <TacticalJoke> And there is, as far as I know, no way of changing that
Jan 12 05:46:02 <drinfernoo> lasserix, I think it's not getting included or something? the code compiles and everything's imported correctly, but it crashes on start
Jan 12 05:46:56 <TacticalJoke> Here's an example: https://github.com/QuantumBadger/RedReader/blob/bb7d8758c6a004685c84f0827cd3de3993fb3c8e/src/main/java/org/quantumbadger/redreader/image/ThumbnailScaler.java
Jan 12 05:47:21 <drinfernoo> I'm gitting my code, but idk what code is going to be relevant
Jan 12 05:47:48 <HevvyMetal> yiati sure but how many spaces is the compiler expcting? 4 or 8?
Jan 12 05:47:55 <HevvyMetal> is there a directive? anyay python meh
Jan 12 05:48:08 <HevvyMetal> thats why i dont work at google back in the day they asked a lot of python questions
Jan 12 05:48:13 <HevvyMetal> i hear they dotn do that anymore
Jan 12 05:48:42 <HevvyMetal> but anyway
Jan 12 05:49:10 <g00s> back in those days, knowing python was a signal you were probably a better developer. not as relevant now though
Jan 12 05:49:25 <g00s> just like now, knowing scala, clujure, etc is the same signal
Jan 12 05:49:30 <g00s> *clojure
Jan 12 05:49:33 <ruler501> I'm getting a SIGBUS error in the destructor from gpg::GameServices. What am I doing wrong? I just create it like the docuementation says, I couldn't find anything about a special method to free it(it just says let it die by going out of scope).
Jan 12 05:50:43 <g00s> http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html
Jan 12 05:51:05 <TacticalJoke> I wonder when this'll be fixed: <https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=77982>.  Looks annoying.
Jan 12 05:52:32 <lnoskhen> Hi. I'm using custom listview with 4 different list item layout to inflate. I'm having problem with inflating those 4 layouts. ConvertView return wrong.
Jan 12 05:53:20 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: cant you just wrap it in a framelayout?
Jan 12 05:53:23 <g00s> TacticalJoke it was filed oct 22, onbiously - nobody there cares about it
Jan 12 05:53:49 <lasserix> lnoskhen: post your adapter
Jan 12 05:54:54 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  I guess the best work-around is to use TextView.setPadding in Java code.  Awkward, though.
Jan 12 05:54:59 <JakeWharton> it's already fixed
Jan 12 05:55:01 <shmoon_> so any suggestions for realtime communication implementation in android?
Jan 12 05:55:26 <lasserix> two tin cans and some piano wire
Jan 12 05:55:26 <JakeWharton> websockets
Jan 12 05:55:28 <TacticalJoke> JakeWharton:  Is updating the build tools sufficient to get the fix?
Jan 12 05:55:39 <JakeWharton> no, wait until the next version is released
Jan 12 05:55:43 <TacticalJoke> Okay.
Jan 12 05:55:43 <lasserix> g00s do you know python?
Jan 12 05:56:36 <JakeWharton> does anyone not know python?
Jan 12 05:56:37 <g00s> lasserix not much any more, although its easy enough to refresh yourself of 80% most useful language features in like 30 minutes
Jan 12 05:57:08 <shmoon_> i dont know python, but i can sort of understand it
Jan 12 05:57:19 <drinfernoo> lasserix, https://github.com/drinfernoo/Cuber/blob/master/app/src/main/java/com/blango/cuber/fragment/NewsFragment.java that's the relevant code
Jan 12 05:57:48 <shmoon_> JakeWharton: websockets, hmm.. any library recommendation?
Jan 12 05:58:02 <shmoon_> Also what to do when the user is not on the app
Jan 12 05:58:27 <TacticalJoke> shmoon_:  You can't just use an existing app for whatever it is you're trying to achieve?
Jan 12 05:58:28 <capella-s3> Ah Spain, so much understanding of the internerz... http://motherboard.vice.com/read/were-11-spanish-anarchists-arrested-for-using-secure-email
Jan 12 05:58:44 <JakeWharton> send a gcm message
Jan 12 05:59:01 <lasserix> drinfernoo: have you set up the dependency properly?
Jan 12 05:59:24 <HevvyMetal> who was the guy wih the view pager state thing? did you ever get that worked out?
Jan 12 05:59:57 <lasserix> drinfernoo: he is busy trying to fix his dependencies atm
Jan 12 06:00:29 <TacticalJoke> That padlock icon is so ugly in IntelliJ.
Jan 12 06:00:34 <shmoon_> TacticalJoke: existing app as in?
Jan 12 06:00:37 <drinfernoo> its a jar in my libs folder, so it should be
Jan 12 06:00:51 <drinfernoo> HevvyMetal, I did not, but right now my app won't even launch lmao
Jan 12 06:00:56 <TacticalJoke> shmoon_:  I mean, like, why can't you use Viber or Kik or something?
Jan 12 06:01:01 <TacticalJoke> Or whatever the latest one is.
Jan 12 06:01:16 <shmoon_> JakeWharton: and then store the msg in the local DB along with showing up a notifiatio? yeah makes sense. but gcm is a little unreliable in terms of timing I've noticed. Can I implement push myself?
Jan 12 06:01:16 <TacticalJoke> shmoon_:  In other words, why are you wanting to create a whole other messaging thing.
Jan 12 06:01:29 <shmoon_> TacticalJoke: I'm trying to build an app where I need the users to be able to chat too.
Jan 12 06:01:36 <JakeWharton> shmoon_: why would your push be any better than GCM?
Jan 12 06:02:08 <shmoon_> JakeWharton: I've noticed major delays with GCM , I guess they throttle for some reason. whereas whatsapp seems more instant, so I guess they have their own solution for push?
Jan 12 06:02:34 <shmoon_> lots of related questions on SO, and people have agreed that happens. I think its also somewhere there in the documentation.
Jan 12 06:02:48 <shmoon_> infact while testing I also noticed sometimes I wouldn't get the notification at all, although those were few times
Jan 12 06:03:31 <lnoskhen> lasserix: https://bpaste.net/show/b4f499949dd6
Jan 12 06:03:38 <HevvyMetal> how does GCM work? does the android set up a static connection that's persistent and continually try to read from it? if not that would be the least latent way to do it over straight tcpip imho but of course i might be wrong =)
Jan 12 06:06:25 <JakeWharton> it's not android. yes it's a constant connection. rumored to use carrier ping to wake the radio on some implementations.
Jan 12 06:06:42 <TacticalJoke> lnoskhen:  Could you say what's wrong with that code?
Jan 12 06:07:01 <drinfernoo> lasserix, am I including the right stuff in the jar? it goes src/nl/matshofman/saxrssreader/
Jan 12 06:07:14 <drinfernoo> I've tried it with both nl and src as the root in the jar
Jan 12 06:08:13 <HevvyMetal> whats not android? for android to get the constant connection then android has to connect right? as far as the radio/data going out how does it deal with that?
Jan 12 06:08:34 <lasserix> drinfernoo: are you using android studio?
Jan 12 06:08:46 <drinfernoo> sure
Jan 12 06:08:52 <lasserix> lnoskhen: you have 3 view types not two
Jan 12 06:09:02 <lnoskhen> TacticalJoke: no problem with the code but the `convertView` return wrong view per position
Jan 12 06:09:03 <g00s> shmoon_ facebook uses mqtt, not sure if they also use gcm in addition. but the mqtt client still requires some tuning for a mobile tcp scenario
Jan 12 06:09:11 <lasserix> chat right chat left chat message going and chat message date
Jan 12 06:09:12 <lasserix> oops 4
Jan 12 06:09:19 <lasserix> but you say you only have 2
Jan 12 06:09:25 <lasserix> so that's why it is not working
Jan 12 06:09:43 <TacticalJoke> Right.
Jan 12 06:09:50 <TacticalJoke> Need moar view types.
Jan 12 06:10:14 <HevvyMetal> oh lolol here's an ad for someone that wants to have an android app that helps people deal with OCD, substance addiction etc
Jan 12 06:10:23 <HevvyMetal> then he says "Let's meet for beer or coffee"
Jan 12 06:10:25 <HevvyMetal> lulz
Jan 12 06:12:22 <drinfernoo> lasserix, does it matter? I'm using a gradle project
Jan 12 06:12:35 <TacticalJoke> Also, that ViewHolder code could be a bunch of classes in their own separate files.  Having it all in one big getView method is way harder to read.
Jan 12 06:13:29 <lasserix> drinfernoo:
Jan 12 06:13:53 <lasserix> you need to go to module settings, then click on your app, then click on dependencies tab, then make sure you have added the library as a dependency
Jan 12 06:14:00 <lasserix> alternatively you can do so in the build.gradle file
Jan 12 06:14:39 <drinfernoo> my build.gradle has compile fileTree(dir: 'libs/', include: ['*.jar'])
Jan 12 06:14:53 <drinfernoo> and that's been working for other jar libs for me
Jan 12 06:15:17 <g00s> something weird with AS - it wants to import a class I defined in the same file. i keep getting this with static inner classes
Jan 12 06:15:19 <lasserix> not sure
Jan 12 06:16:49 <lasserix> drinfernoo: just for fun
Jan 12 06:16:59 <lasserix> open up module settings, click on your app module, goto dependencies and explictly add it
Jan 12 06:18:33 <lasserix> whats the expanded height of the toolbar/actionbar?
Jan 12 06:26:18 <HevvyMetal> for games anyway
Jan 12 06:26:58 <lnoskhen> lasserix, TacticalJoke: I changed `getItemViewType` to 4 but doesn't work. Now, I tried this implementation: https://bpaste.net/show/ee398e117e5c but it suffers from memory leak. Anyways, thank you :D
Jan 12 06:29:15 <lasserix> whats the error?
Jan 12 06:29:19 <lasserix> after you switched it to four
Jan 12 06:29:40 <lasserix> and you need to return four item types
Jan 12 06:29:45 <lasserix> whats the new adapter look like
Jan 12 06:30:19 <drinfernoo> lasserix, say I was doing it in eclipse, how would I make that work?
Jan 12 06:30:37 <lasserix> you need a switch like switch (itemType) case 0: header break; case 1: chat left break; case 2: chat right break; case 3: chat outgoing break;
Jan 12 06:30:48 <lasserix> drinfernoo: dunno dont support eclipse
Jan 12 06:31:13 <drinfernoo> I'm not in android studio, I'm in aide lol
Jan 12 06:32:02 <lasserix> drinfernoo: your dependencies are not set up right, for some reason not sure whats the deal but that's why it can't find it -- when it compiled didnt link it correctly looks like
Jan 12 06:34:05 <drinfernoo> how should a jar be set up? only folders that are part of the package, or should they be in a src folder?
Jan 12 06:37:13 <detachYo> Hi everyone.
Jan 12 06:38:40 <shmoon_> hi detach
Jan 12 06:39:41 <HevvyMetal> #aide
Jan 12 06:44:38 <shmoon_> g00s: hm yeah reading up a bit on it, seems like mqtt is better cuz of reasons like low overhead communication, etc.
Jan 12 06:45:14 <drinfernoo> i know I know HevvyMetal
Jan 12 06:54:16 <HevvyMetal> anyone using wireless adb on a non rooted device?
Jan 12 06:55:54 <lnoskhen> lasserix: I tried the switch statement, no luck. The `position` from `getView` is correct. In `convertView`, the first 5 items' layout is correct but when I scrolled to the next item (next 5 items), the `convertView` should be `null` since it was new item to inflate new view. So, the `holder = (ViewHolder) convertView.getTag()` was used instead of
Jan 12 06:55:54 <lnoskhen> inflating new layout
Jan 12 06:56:29 <lasserix> it should not be null or not
Jan 12 06:56:32 <lasserix> post your new adapter
Jan 12 06:56:42 <lasserix> position will obviousily be correctly
Jan 12 06:57:15 <thepoosh> morning
Jan 12 06:57:22 <TacticalJoke> Hey, thepoosh.
Jan 12 06:57:23 <lasserix> good morn
Jan 12 06:57:28 <thepoosh> sup?
Jan 12 06:57:49 <g00s> hows it going thepoosh '
Jan 12 06:57:59 <thepoosh> tired and anit-social, and you?
Jan 12 06:58:09 <lasserix> just derpin
Jan 12 06:58:26 <thepoosh> lnoskhen: what seems to be the issue?
Jan 12 06:58:34 <HevvyMetal> so you nkow on the google play store when you hit search then the dialog covers up part of the content window right
Jan 12 06:58:59 <HevvyMetal> err not play
Jan 12 06:59:14 <HevvyMetal> hrrm forget it for now sorry
Jan 12 06:59:14 <lasserix> lnoskhen: post your new adapter code, make sure to include getView getViewItemType getViewItemTypeCount
Jan 12 06:59:38 <lasserix> also what error you got be heplful
Jan 12 07:03:34 <HevvyMetal> what do you think about all the adapter stuff in android lasserix?
Jan 12 07:03:42 <HevvyMetal> and have you used any of Jakes stuff like retrofit and dagger and all that?
Jan 12 07:04:01 <lasserix> adapters are useful i am glad i dont have to write all that from scratch
Jan 12 07:04:08 <lasserix> his stuff is very helpful
Jan 12 07:04:41 <capella-s3> woo! bare metal hackin! Bare metal hackin  http://labs.domipheus.com/blog/teensy-z80-part-1-intro-memory-serial-io-and-display/
Jan 12 07:05:58 <HevvyMetal> yeah i agree which packages have you used so far/
Jan 12 07:06:21 <detachYo> g00s ! How's it going?!
Jan 12 07:06:37 <HevvyMetal> so someone was saying savnig thier pager adapter but when i had a tab view when i switched apps i didnt seem to have to wrry about saving and loading it too much it seemed automatic? am i missing smethig?
Jan 12 07:06:49 <g00s> hey detachYo , ok. writing a rxjava wrapper around andriod BLE stuff atm
Jan 12 07:07:19 <detachYo> very nice
Jan 12 07:07:24 <g00s> what about you ?
Jan 12 07:07:39 <detachYo> released first app to app store =) working on the next one
Jan 12 07:07:48 <detachYo> probably way simpler than what you're doing right now
Jan 12 07:08:00 <g00s>  my problem here is that i'm oscillating unstably between 3 solutions without convergence
Jan 12 07:08:59 <detachYo> uh oh, what will make you lean towards a solution out of 3?
Jan 12 07:09:15 <g00s> elegance of course :D
Jan 12 07:09:25 <g00s> and simplicity
Jan 12 07:09:33 <detachYo> oh good, i am not the only one
Jan 12 07:09:41 <g00s> yeah i have to keep stuff simple
Jan 12 07:09:41 <detachYo> now imagine trying to achieve that in perl :P
Jan 12 07:10:19 <detachYo> g00s, is it up to you to make it simple, or the implementations already exist?
Jan 12 07:10:26 <TacticalJoke> If I move to "material", will I have to use libraries for widgets to get things looking good, or could I just use normal widgets?
Jan 12 07:11:46 <g00s> detachYo the ble apis are pretty quirky
Jan 12 07:11:47 <TacticalJoke> "Widget" is such a funny word.
Jan 12 07:12:12 <shmoon_> yeah
Jan 12 07:12:25 <detachYo> g00s that's not so good
Jan 12 07:13:24 <g00s> i've looked at a few ble examples here and there, the code is spaghetti. i'm not into writing libraries but maybe once i figure something out i'll blog about the pattern
Jan 12 07:13:40 <detachYo> you have a blog of your own?
Jan 12 07:13:57 <detachYo> i'd be interested in reading quality stuff =)
Jan 12 07:14:00 <g00s> not atm, but i've been meaning to put something up
Jan 12 07:14:08 <detachYo> ah, i see
Jan 12 07:14:29 <g00s> i generally dont have anything worth saying on a blog
Jan 12 07:14:33 <HevvyMetal> hrrm im messing wth the nav_drawer which i havent used before
Jan 12 07:14:41 <HevvyMetal> when i have the framelayout where does the content go?
Jan 12 07:14:56 <detachYo> g00s that's how i feel most of the time, but sometimes i come up with stuff and say to myself "wish i blogged this..."
Jan 12 07:15:06 <Leeds> g00s: that doesn't stop most bloggers
Jan 12 07:15:12 <TacticalJoke> Java lambdas under the hood: http://youtu.be/MLksirK9nnE
Jan 12 07:15:19 <detachYo> *shots fired*
Jan 12 07:15:22 <detachYo> haha Leeds ^
Jan 12 07:15:25 <lasserix> too many ears, too many mouths
Jan 12 07:16:26 <detachYo> I have a question, when I create a new project and target 4.0 and up.. do I have to use v4 & v7 libraries? I don't really care about supporting lower than 4.0
Jan 12 07:16:47 <detachYo> Looks like by default, the v4 packages are included.
Jan 12 07:17:03 <HevvyMetal> is it tcp over ble or serial g00s?
Jan 12 07:17:13 <john67> hello
Jan 12 07:17:24 <HevvyMetal> those packages are very strangely named detachYo
Jan 12 07:17:25 <detachYo> hi john67
Jan 12 07:17:27 <HevvyMetal> you want to have both
Jan 12 07:17:40 <detachYo> that's frustrating to know
Jan 12 07:17:44 <HevvyMetal> v4 and v7 are api levels
Jan 12 07:17:49 <HevvyMetal> yes well
Jan 12 07:17:53 <g00s> HevvyMetal tcp over ble O.o
Jan 12 07:17:59 <HevvyMetal> ah ok g00s
Jan 12 07:18:07 <HevvyMetal> making a fancy internet toaster of things?
Jan 12 07:18:20 <HevvyMetal> internet of toasters and keurigs or whatever
Jan 12 07:18:24 <HevvyMetal> IoTK
Jan 12 07:18:25 <g00s> no, working with an existing oem and hoping not to get banned
Jan 12 07:18:34 <HevvyMetal> banend for waht?
Jan 12 07:18:41 <HevvyMetal> most ble stuff i have seen is more serial than tcp based
Jan 12 07:18:48 <HevvyMetal> there is a $6 ble to serial modem
Jan 12 07:19:07 <HevvyMetal> getting an arduino to tcp is hard
Jan 12 07:19:57 <lasserix> detachYo: things like viewpager are in v7 (i think)
Jan 12 07:20:01 <p_l> paypal's ble widgets do http-over-ble
Jan 12 07:20:06 <lasserix> so its not just if you want 4.0 and up
Jan 12 07:20:09 <detachYo> lasserix: that's exactly what I am trying to use now
Jan 12 07:20:21 <detachYo> lasserix: this makes a lot of sense now
Jan 12 07:20:23 <lasserix> oh its in v4
Jan 12 07:20:29 <detachYo> yeah, v4
Jan 12 07:20:35 <detachYo> so I shouldn't be paranoid :D
Jan 12 07:21:27 <TacticalJoke> I think it makes sense to prefer the "support" libs where possible.  For example, I always use v4 Fragments (and not non-support Fragments).
Jan 12 07:21:45 <TacticalJoke> Because then the same Fragment code runs regardless of the user's Android version (and I get consistent behaviour).
Jan 12 07:22:17 <TacticalJoke> Also, support libs are updated more often than most people's Android distributions.
Jan 12 07:22:39 <HevvyMetal> p_l what widges are those? beacons or PoS or what?
Jan 12 07:23:02 <g00s> p_l link? sounds like hackery
Jan 12 07:23:25 <HevvyMetal> what apps have you built besides this reddit you are working on TacticalJoke ?
Jan 12 07:23:34 <p_l> found it by searching for embedded golang
Jan 12 07:23:44 <g00s> you can create a BLE service with a characteristic that is a buffer, and read and write into that. but its not very nice
Jan 12 07:24:03 <g00s> embed a protocol in the protocol
Jan 12 07:24:05 <HevvyMetal> does it come with an embedded frodo too p_l?
Jan 12 07:24:21 <HevvyMetal> most BLE stuff doesnt need a full tcp stack
Jan 12 07:24:39 <HevvyMetal> serial / SIPP or whatever they call it is usually plenty for most heart monitors or whatever
Jan 12 07:24:56 <g00s> BLE has its own heart rate profile
Jan 12 07:25:05 <HevvyMetal> hence whatever
Jan 12 07:25:05 <p_l> they packed HTTP into their own binary protocol then pushed it over ble
Jan 12 07:25:14 <g00s> p_l gross
Jan 12 07:25:29 <detachYo> what's BLE?
Jan 12 07:25:35 <HevvyMetal> i mean coffee machine, automated bartender, all this IoT doesnt have specific profiles they just tend to use sipp
Jan 12 07:25:39 <HevvyMetal> blue tooth low energy
Jan 12 07:25:45 <HevvyMetal> aka "BT Smart"
Jan 12 07:25:50 <HevvyMetal> aka "BT Smart Ready"
Jan 12 07:25:50 <p_l> g00s: afaik the justification was keeping an existing API just adding a diff. transport
Jan 12 07:25:55 <HevvyMetal> they need a few more names for that shit
Jan 12 07:26:47 <HevvyMetal> the problem with TCP over BLE isn't really with BLE the problem is the embedded device needs to have a TCP stack on it which rules out simpleish controllers
Jan 12 07:26:49 <g00s> HevvyMetal there is no SPP profile for BLE, you are thinking of BR/EDR
Jan 12 07:27:09 <HevvyMetal> there is an equivalent of it I'm not sure what it's called tho
Jan 12 07:27:13 <HevvyMetal> its the equivlanet of SPP on USB
Jan 12 07:27:28 <g00s> it would be some proprietery hack
Jan 12 07:28:02 <HevvyMetal> nah it's a astandard
Jan 12 07:28:04 <HevvyMetal> here is an example
Jan 12 07:28:06 <HevvyMetal> http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-fail-safe-for-the-Bluetooth-module-for-the-/
Jan 12 07:28:19 <HevvyMetal> so it's BT on one said and serial on the other
Jan 12 07:28:23 <HevvyMetal> on side
Jan 12 07:28:26 <HevvyMetal> $6 part
Jan 12 07:28:44 <p_l> isn't that normal BT, not LE?
Jan 12 07:29:11 <HevvyMetal> they have both i think but that part might just be BT
Jan 12 07:29:18 <HevvyMetal> i'm not really a hardware guy
Jan 12 07:29:33 <HevvyMetal> i've just been getting involved in all these kickstarter coffee machines needs android UI projects
Jan 12 07:29:49 <HevvyMetal> but yeah that particular module is straight BT i thik
Jan 12 07:29:59 <g00s> yeah, like i said, no SPP in BLE
Jan 12 07:30:58 <g00s> this guy from nordic answers the question https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/question/71/is-there-a-serial-port-profile-for-ble/
Jan 12 07:31:05 <g00s> i'm sure he knows :)
Jan 12 07:31:25 <p_l> i wonder if you could use HID for coffee machine
Jan 12 07:31:29 <HevvyMetal> then what do they use for the simplest wire protocol? even TCP supports sockets/telnet which is essentially serial port
Jan 12 07:31:54 <g00s> BLE doesn't lend itself to streams of datat, more intermittent bursts
Jan 12 07:32:12 <p_l> dTagrams! ;-)
Jan 12 07:32:21 <p_l> *datagrams
Jan 12 07:32:48 <HevvyMetal> well if you add all the bursts together you get a laggy stream so i dont see it as being all that hard but i dunno
Jan 12 07:32:58 <lasserix> coffee warming coffee warming coffe hot coffee nominal coffee nomincal coffee burnt
Jan 12 07:33:26 <g00s> HevvyMetal at 4Kb/s ?
Jan 12 07:33:41 <HevvyMetal> 4Kb/s is pretty fast
Jan 12 07:33:48 <p_l> lasserix: only if it's a coffeemachine equivalent of GDI printer
Jan 12 07:33:53 <HevvyMetal> i started out at 300 bytes/sec
Jan 12 07:34:00 <HevvyMetal> then 1200 bytes/sec
Jan 12 07:34:03 <HevvyMetal> then 2400
Jan 12 07:34:11 <HevvyMetal> 4800 is a lot by that standard
Jan 12 07:34:16 <lasserix> tweeting coffee machine
Jan 12 07:34:30 <HevvyMetal> right to send OPEN PUMP 1... CLOSE PUMP 1
Jan 12 07:34:34 <HevvyMetal> just doesnt take a lot of bandwith
Jan 12 07:34:40 <HevvyMetal> espeically when it OP1 CP1
Jan 12 07:35:13 <HevvyMetal> and maybe every second it dribbles back 16 bits of stats ala FFFF
Jan 12 07:35:34 <lasserix> coffee pot has always loved you, but it's wrong coffee pot, its wrong.
Jan 12 07:36:07 * p_l instead thought of asn.1 per and a controller that understood "make me a coffee" 
Jan 12 07:36:32 <g00s> p_l there was an article about asn.1 on HN today
Jan 12 07:37:06 <g00s> from the comments, i gather the spec is ok and all, but the tooling sucks
Jan 12 07:37:26 <p_l> i mean, my current coffee machine supports single-button coffee making, a bt-capable one should do better
Jan 12 07:37:27 <HevvyMetal> i have the ultimate coffee bot aleady
Jan 12 07:37:30 <HevvyMetal> it's speach compatible
Jan 12 07:37:35 <HevvyMetal> it's called Mrs. Coffee
Jan 12 07:37:48 <HevvyMetal> bix get me some koffee
Jan 12 07:39:41 <HevvyMetal> but you guys think i'm just kidding about this coffee stuff
Jan 12 07:39:43 <HevvyMetal> i'm not
Jan 12 07:39:51 <p_l> g00s: part of tge tooling issue is NIH syndrome, part is general dislike that probably goes back to binary/text fights
Jan 12 07:40:59 <HevvyMetal> here i saw a $700k kickstarter for some Coffee machine
Jan 12 07:41:26 <p_l> HevvyMetal: i'm seriously pondering if it's possible to stick all coffee-najer controls in HID profile
Jan 12 07:41:42 <g00s> p_l i got the impression the libs, tooling were just old and decrepit with little activity / support / bugfixes
Jan 12 07:41:47 <HevvyMetal> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/236195807/arist-brews-coffee-like-the-best-baristas-anytime/comments?cursor=8372632&direction=asc
Jan 12 07:42:08 <HevvyMetal> now its $845k
Jan 12 07:42:10 <p_l> that, or it's time for htcptp
Jan 12 07:42:13 <HevvyMetal> are you makin a coffee machine p_L?
Jan 12 07:42:31 <p_l> g00s: also known as "stable"
Jan 12 07:42:39 <HevvyMetal> $800k 2500 backers
Jan 12 07:42:45 <p_l> HevvyMetal: no, but you intrigued me
Jan 12 07:42:46 <g00s> bitrot isn't stable O.o
Jan 12 07:43:06 <HevvyMetal> $845,139
Jan 12 07:43:06 <HevvyMetal> pledged of $120,000 goal
Jan 12 07:43:11 <HevvyMetal> talk about over subscribed
Jan 12 07:43:15 <HevvyMetal> 8:1
Jan 12 07:43:34 <HevvyMetal> i dont see how they could have doen it for $100k but coffeei is big on kickstarter
Jan 12 07:43:35 <p_l> g00s: in case of HN you need to always consider the fixation on shiny new
Jan 12 07:43:43 <g00s> hehe
Jan 12 07:44:04 <HevvyMetal> HN?
Jan 12 07:44:12 <g00s> HevvyNews
Jan 12 07:44:35 <lasserix> wow that video is really insulting to bariastas
Jan 12 07:44:36 <HevvyMetal> what makes you think i'm fixated on the "shiny" versus just emerging tech trends?
Jan 12 07:44:53 <p_l> g00s: consider that pretty much every cryptolib has asn.1 der
Jan 12 07:45:08 <p_l> HevvyMetal: HackerNews
Jan 12 07:45:17 <p_l> not you
Jan 12 07:45:29 <g00s> heh
Jan 12 07:45:44 <HevvyMetal> yc? please
Jan 12 07:45:47 <lasserix> there video really really sucks totally reeks of 2 am infomercial nonsense
Jan 12 07:45:49 <HevvyMetal> that makes reddit look elite
Jan 12 07:46:05 <p_l> lasserix: is the vid a brainchild of silicon valley?
Jan 12 07:46:18 <lasserix> watching the kickstarter heavymetal linked
Jan 12 07:46:20 <HevvyMetal> oh dude you totally have to check out the video of this one
Jan 12 07:46:31 <lasserix> totally says 'baristas are unreliable and dont know what they are doing becasue they are not automated"
Jan 12 07:46:34 <HevvyMetal> http://monsieur.co/
Jan 12 07:46:42 <HevvyMetal> check that one lassix
Jan 12 07:46:47 <lasserix> and then all the actors are obviousily reading from cue cards
Jan 12 07:46:51 <lasserix> terrible terrible
Jan 12 07:47:00 <HevvyMetal> go watch this monsiur one lasserix
Jan 12 07:47:00 <p_l> HevvyMetal: do you know how webcam got invented?
Jan 12 07:47:07 <HevvyMetal> p_l no how?
Jan 12 07:47:10 <lasserix> 4k wow
Jan 12 07:47:38 <p_l> a bunch of brits at uni lab needed a way to monitor a coffeepot...
Jan 12 07:48:29 <HevvyMetal> the problem with the robo bartenders is a small sized device cant hold enough boooze and types of booze without going dry every 5 or 6 drinks and thats nothing ata  party
Jan 12 07:48:29 <g00s> i thought porn invented everything
Jan 12 07:48:45 <detachYo> LOL ^
Jan 12 07:48:52 <HevvyMetal> yeah the first time i saw a 2 way video phone call one of the gals was flashing
Jan 12 07:49:09 <HevvyMetal> the first nude photo was taken exactly 8 minutes after the invention of the camera
Jan 12 07:49:24 <HevvyMetal> what did you think f the dialog on the monsieur video?
Jan 12 07:49:28 <lasserix> problem with robo bartenders is they can't talk about life with you
Jan 12 07:49:42 <HevvyMetal> oh i'm too dumb to make a margarita! halp me obiwan!
Jan 12 07:49:53 <lasserix> think the engineer could have used a few drinks, the main guy obviousily had
Jan 12 07:49:55 <HevvyMetal> but seriously $4k is nothing for a fraternity to spend on
Jan 12 07:50:11 <HevvyMetal> the one guy is so slow and the other one is so uptight
Jan 12 07:50:15 <lasserix> but people like being a mixologist/ bartender
Jan 12 07:50:34 <HevvyMetal> yeah well people like bright shiny things too
Jan 12 07:50:40 <lasserix> hey they are hiring android devs :)
Jan 12 07:50:41 <HevvyMetal> personally i think the bartender should have a touchscreen/android ON IT
Jan 12 07:50:57 <HevvyMetal> not have to download an app and have 10 people tryin to control it
Jan 12 07:51:16 <lasserix> ahh from atlanta
Jan 12 07:51:22 <capella-s3> robotender: I'm sorry, I don't know where you can get weed
Jan 12 07:51:24 <HevvyMetal> they definitely have funding
Jan 12 07:51:29 <lasserix> hehe
Jan 12 07:51:35 <HevvyMetal> i was talking to a bay area version thats similar
Jan 12 07:52:19 <capella-s3> realtender: psssst? wanna buy some weed?
Jan 12 07:53:02 <lasserix> im your pusherman ahhh yeahh your puserman
Jan 12 07:53:04 <lasserix> pusherbot
Jan 12 07:53:19 <HevvyMetal> no really i mean i can totally see the robotender
Jan 12 07:53:20 <lasserix> the first drone rx delivery machine
Jan 12 07:58:32 <capella-s3> Nah, prisoners already caught using drones to smuggle cigs in
Jan 12 07:59:06 <HevvyMetal> all this drone stuff is gonna go badly someday and peopel will get seriously injured
Jan 12 07:59:11 <capella-s3> and by drones I mean quads
Jan 12 07:59:27 <HevvyMetal> it's all funny funny haw haw now with make 500g drones but when 50 lbs drops onto someones head it wont be funny
Jan 12 08:00:10 <capella-s3> this is a drone http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4efde8546bb3f7bf7b00002b/us-civilians-are-now-helping-decide-who-to-kill-with-military-drones.jpg
Jan 12 08:00:14 <HevvyMetal> but who knows where it will all go i just dont see how pracctical they can be with maybe a 20 minute enduraance and maybe 3-5 mph wind max
Jan 12 08:00:37 <HevvyMetal> yeah yeah that's a predator
Jan 12 08:00:41 <HevvyMetal> they make those here in san diego
Jan 12 08:00:57 <HevvyMetal> but yeah thats a very heavy drone
Jan 12 08:01:05 <HevvyMetal> germany has drones the size of full sized fighters
Jan 12 08:01:22 <HevvyMetal> http://a406.idata.over-blog.com/600x373/4/22/09/08/Germany/German-Army/heron/Heron-UAV-photo-Rex-Features.jpg
Jan 12 08:01:27 <HevvyMetal> see now that there is a drone
Jan 12 08:01:43 <lasserix> You call that a drone?
Jan 12 08:01:47 <lasserix> This is a drone.
Jan 12 08:01:55 <HevvyMetal> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-defense-ministry-continued-drone-program-despite-problems-a-903504.html
Jan 12 08:01:58 <HevvyMetal> that one is every bigger
Jan 12 08:02:14 <HevvyMetal> even
Jan 12 08:02:41 <HevvyMetal> where is it lasserix?
Jan 12 08:02:51 <lasserix> rhetorical
Jan 12 08:02:58 <capella-s3> not a drone http://gadgetsdeal.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Q450-quadcopter-kopen.jpg
Jan 12 08:04:52 <lasserix> this is not a drone http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrsnFRMCUAAv14c.jpg
Jan 12 08:04:58 <lasserix> nsfw
Jan 12 08:05:12 <TacticalJoke> haha
Jan 12 08:05:17 <TacticalJoke> I remember that.  Garry Kasparov.
Jan 12 08:06:03 <TacticalJoke> Do you folks ever play chess?
Jan 12 08:06:16 <lasserix> only when very very in a different state of mind
Jan 12 08:06:22 <Zharf> Go, not chess
Jan 12 08:06:36 <HevvyMetal> go takes a long time
Jan 12 08:06:40 <TacticalJoke> Which state of mind?
Jan 12 08:06:42 <lasserix> yeah go is fun
Jan 12 08:06:49 <lasserix> the kind that is generally illegal to get into
Jan 12 08:06:56 <HevvyMetal> did you ever read the glass bead game zharf or lasserix ?
Jan 12 08:07:04 <lasserix> yeah
Jan 12 08:07:05 <TacticalJoke> Okay.  lol
Jan 12 08:07:17 <lasserix> he won the nobel prize in lit for it
Jan 12 08:07:26 <TacticalJoke> My username is chess-related, but I haven't played in forever.
Jan 12 08:07:29 <Zharf> probably not since I don't know what it is
Jan 12 08:07:48 <HevvyMetal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Bead_Game
Jan 12 08:07:56 <HevvyMetal> it's pretty famous
Jan 12 08:08:13 <Zharf> never heard of it, but then I don't read books
Jan 12 08:08:30 <HevvyMetal> it's about combining math, music, go, and other things into a universal sublime language and game
Jan 12 08:08:39 <HevvyMetal> called -- the glass bead game
Jan 12 08:08:46 <HevvyMetal> it's a very psychedelic book
Jan 12 08:09:02 <HevvyMetal> http://www.starcenter.com/glassbead.pdf
Jan 12 08:09:07 <lasserix> theres a whole book in the book too
Jan 12 08:09:18 <lasserix> err anyways the manifesto
Jan 12 08:09:28 <HevvyMetal> yeah like the bhagavad gita
Jan 12 08:09:35 <lasserix> ooo that's aterrible font for this book
Jan 12 08:09:49 <HevvyMetal> i got into it for awhile but his blovating aggravated me after awhile
Jan 12 08:10:02 <Zharf> tldr ;)
Jan 12 08:10:05 <HevvyMetal> it doesnt need to be 800 pages for him to never even explain the glass bead game but just sort of fab about it
Jan 12 08:10:39 <HevvyMetal> what about steppenwolf did you read that? same author
Jan 12 08:10:53 <Zharf> like I said, I don't read books
Jan 12 08:11:17 <Zharf> the only one I remember reading was a painful and long process about 15 years ago
Jan 12 08:11:20 <HevvyMetal> so did you finish up that video app or whate are you working on now zharf?
Jan 12 08:11:27 <HevvyMetal> how did you finish school with no books?
Jan 12 08:12:00 <Zharf> who says I finished school (also books weren't the problem there, it was just boring :p)
Jan 12 08:12:34 <HevvyMetal> oh so here is the best part of the glass bead game get this ok sorry for long paste
Jan 12 08:12:41 <Zharf> and yeah not working on that anymore, from what I hear the client is trying to sell the application to someone
Jan 12 08:12:41 <HevvyMetal> We must confes that we canot provide an unequivocal
Jan 12 08:12:41 <HevvyMetal> defintion ofthose products from whic the age takes its name,
Jan 12 08:12:41 <HevvyMetal> the feuiletons.
Jan 12 08:12:47 <HevvyMetal> eg = the fools
Jan 12 08:12:50 <HevvyMetal> then he says the fools
Jan 12 08:13:00 <HevvyMetal>  sem to have formed an uncomonly
Jan 12 08:13:01 <HevvyMetal> poular section of the daily newspaers, wer produced by the
Jan 12 08:13:01 <HevvyMetal> milons, and wer amajor source of mental pabulm for the
Jan 12 08:13:01 <HevvyMetal> reader inwant ofcultre.
Jan 12 08:13:15 <HevvyMetal> hrrm this pdf paste is bad
Jan 12 08:13:29 <HevvyMetal>  They reported on, orather "chated"
Jan 12 08:13:29 <HevvyMetal> about, athousand-and-one items of knowledge.
Jan 12 08:13:42 <capella-s3> idiocracy
Jan 12 08:13:44 <HevvyMetal> so he says the news people dont report, they just chat, about inconsequential little one liners
Jan 12 08:13:50 <HevvyMetal> which is exactly what twitter is!
Jan 12 08:13:54 <HevvyMetal> exactly what twitter is
Jan 12 08:14:00 <HevvyMetal> he predicted, 70 years ago or something
Jan 12 08:14:19 <HevvyMetal> but after awhile i got sick of it but it was refreshing at first
Jan 12 08:14:53 <HevvyMetal> that pdf doesnt even have page numbers but if you search "chatted" the first result gets you to that section
Jan 12 08:14:57 <HevvyMetal> anyway must stop typing
Jan 12 08:23:02 <bankai_au> please do
Jan 12 08:23:58 <HevvyMetal> so do people still use ABS or just the actionbar in the compat lib instead?
Jan 12 08:27:58 <TacticalJoke> Why do people like line numbers?  I've never understood.
Jan 12 08:30:43 <bankai_au> to see your position in the file, why else?
Jan 12 08:31:00 <bankai_au> point of reference
Jan 12 08:31:32 <TacticalJoke> When would you need to know a refer to a line number?
Jan 12 08:31:55 <HevvyMetal> @/
Jan 12 08:31:59 <HevvyMetal> never TacticalJoke
Jan 12 08:32:11 <HevvyMetal> that's why they have that feature is cuz it's like useless and stuff
Jan 12 08:33:05 <HevvyMetal> i certainly don't like them turned on all the time but it's nice to switch them on and off sometimes
Jan 12 08:33:18 <HevvyMetal> and you know those logcat stacktraces use line numbers
Jan 12 08:33:22 <HevvyMetal> can be handy once in awhile
Jan 12 08:34:16 <Mavrik> TacticalJoke, ugh, how exactly do you determine the cause of your exceptions then?
Jan 12 08:34:22 <Mavrik> without line numbers?
Jan 12 08:34:46 <TacticalJoke> I double-click the exception message and it takes me there.
Jan 12 08:34:55 <Mavrik> ...
Jan 12 08:35:01 <HevvyMetal> @/@/
Jan 12 08:35:03 <Mavrik> Yes, BECAUSE it has a line number in it :P
Jan 12 08:35:08 <HevvyMetal> shhh mavrik
Jan 12 08:35:13 <HevvyMetal> there is no need for line numbers
Jan 12 08:35:23 <Mavrik> If you remove those from your compiled code, it's not going to take you anywhere :)
Jan 12 08:35:25 <Zharf> I think he's wondering about visible line numbers on the side
Jan 12 08:35:27 <TacticalJoke> I'm talking about line numbers in the source editor.  :)
Jan 12 08:35:37 <HevvyMetal> what if you can't double click you moron?
Jan 12 08:35:50 <Mavrik> Ah.
Jan 12 08:35:56 <HevvyMetal> what if you are talking to a colleague and they say you on line 250, there is a bug
Jan 12 08:36:03 <HevvyMetal> s/you on/you know
Jan 12 08:36:06 <Zharf> HevvyMetal, 250gg
Jan 12 08:36:11 <Zharf> vim for the win
Jan 12 08:36:18 <HevvyMetal> what's 250gg mean?
Jan 12 08:36:23 <Mavrik> yes, vim and emacs-like commands usually refer to line numbers
Jan 12 08:36:28 <Zharf> it goes to line 250 in vim
Jan 12 08:36:37 <HevvyMetal> yeah right
Jan 12 08:36:41 <HevvyMetal> or ^g 250 or something
Jan 12 08:36:58 <Chainfire> TacticalJoke are you against line numbers on the left side of the code, or the generic line/character number indicator usually bottom-right somewhere
Jan 12 08:37:01 <HevvyMetal> well that was good for a laugh
Jan 12 08:37:13 <Zharf> all you need is a single status line that tells you the current line number, really
Jan 12 08:37:26 <HevvyMetal> yeah like visual studio and TECO and VI and Emacs
Jan 12 08:37:57 <HevvyMetal> the line numbers on the side stuff is annoying most of the time but it reminds me of old fortran or basic
Jan 12 08:38:04 <HevvyMetal> 10 rem print digits
Jan 12 08:38:10 <HevvyMetal> 20 for i 1 to 10
Jan 12 08:38:13 <HevvyMetal> 30 print i
Jan 12 08:38:15 <HevvyMetal> 40 next
Jan 12 08:38:43 <HevvyMetal> it's funny here on freenode people who are totally dependent on their ides like Tactical
Jan 12 08:39:00 <capella-s3> 50 goto 50
Jan 12 08:39:01 <HevvyMetal> i thought it would be a lot of CLI people and bash scripters that loathe using up precious ram to run x-windows or something
Jan 12 08:39:48 <appel1> HevvyMetal: don't everyone have 16gb+ in their workstations these days? =)
Jan 12 08:40:08 <HevvyMetal> appel1 maybe but for some people it's a matter of principle and pride to do everythign from the shell
Jan 12 08:40:10 <Zharf> http://fi8.eu.apcdn.com/full/126925.jpeg
Jan 12 08:40:11 <HevvyMetal> especially on freenode
Jan 12 08:41:25 <HevvyMetal> anyway java in general and android in particular are just way too hard to deal with without an IDE so it's understandable that people are more in favor of ide's here than they would be on python or ruby
Jan 12 08:42:02 * Zharf should really call that taxi and go to work already
Jan 12 08:42:24 <HevvyMetal> why taxi?
Jan 12 08:42:27 <HevvyMetal> thought you take the bus?
Jan 12 08:42:56 <appel1> HevvyMetal: haven't used python or ruby much but doesn't the dynamic nature of those languages hinder type ahead and such so an ide can't be as useful?
Jan 12 08:43:22 <HevvyMetal> yes well that's true to a certain extent yes
Jan 12 08:43:32 <Zharf> HevvyMetal, because I need to be at the office for scrum before the bus can take me there
Jan 12 08:43:39 <HevvyMetal> oh scrum
Jan 12 08:43:41 <HevvyMetal> sorry to hear that
Jan 12 08:43:47 <HevvyMetal> how's scrum workin out for you?
Jan 12 08:43:52 <HevvyMetal> maybe try uber or lyft tho
Jan 12 08:43:54 <HevvyMetal> but yeah hurry
Jan 12 08:44:16 <HevvyMetal> i think also android does a lot of graphic stuff that you need an IDE for and the python people dont really appel1
Jan 12 08:44:21 <Zharf> as long as I'm not acting as scrum master, I'm fine with it :p
Jan 12 08:44:44 <HevvyMetal> and I think taht the java build system is so byzantine with the classpath shit and directory nonsense that most java people would blow their brains out typin that in the command line and jugglying directories
Jan 12 08:44:57 <appel1> HevvyMetal: heh, there is that yes )=
Jan 12 08:44:58 <appel1> =)
Jan 12 08:47:39 <HevvyMetal> I think I figured out how to rewrite Hello World for the Brogrammer culture
Jan 12 08:48:29 <HevvyMetal> # brogrammer hello world
Jan 12 08:48:36 <HevvyMetal> echo 'Dude! You Rock!"
Jan 12 08:51:55 <JR___> hi
Jan 12 08:52:10 <JR___> i can't seem to add minifyenabled inside my new project
Jan 12 08:52:16 <JR___> it was previously runproguard
Jan 12 09:04:36 <joshnz> So I have osx 10.9 and running JDK 8. Do I still need JDK 7 (and perhaps 6 if Android < 5), or can I just JDK 8? I gather there is a target and source compiler options, so I
Jan 12 09:04:57 <joshnz> I'd say something like -source 1.8 -target 1.7?
Jan 12 09:05:17 <HevvyMetal> source 1.8 isnt going to work
Jan 12 09:05:51 <joshnz> Oh ok, lol
Jan 12 09:06:27 <HevvyMetal> source 1.7 target 1.7
Jan 12 09:07:04 <HevvyMetal> google just can't afford to pay oracle to license java 8 apparently
Jan 12 09:07:35 <joshnz> Oh ok, so it would for eg convert java 8 only constructs to java 7 equivalents then?
Jan 12 09:08:09 <xgearx> HevvyMetal: can you explain about license?
Jan 12 09:08:15 <joshnz> How does the JDK part work then, if I'm using JDK 8 surely there may be java API's that exist in 8 but don't exist in 7, or where changed in 8?
Jan 12 09:09:29 <ohsnap> question about compatibility- i need to write a very basic application that can access GPS on the phone, zxing to scan bardcodes, and possibly bluetooth to print to a mobile printer. are these 3 features something that will have issues going back a few years in android os versions?
Jan 12 09:10:18 <HevvyMetal> xgearx : hava isn't open source; google didn't pay for it; that's the short version
Jan 12 09:10:23 <HevvyMetal> java
Jan 12 09:10:32 <HevvyMetal> google just cloned parts of java without paying for it
Jan 12 09:10:42 <HevvyMetal> and those are the parts that wind up in android more or less
Jan 12 09:10:51 <thepoosh> without paying for it?
Jan 12 09:10:53 <HevvyMetal> i'm sure other people here are more knowledgable tho
Jan 12 09:10:57 <thepoosh> isn't it open source?
Jan 12 09:11:02 <HevvyMetal> no it isn't open source
Jan 12 09:11:11 <xgearx> open jdk is opensource
Jan 12 09:11:18 <HevvyMetal> well that isn't java
Jan 12 09:11:22 <HevvyMetal> just like android isn't java
Jan 12 09:11:26 <HevvyMetal> that's like a gnu java
Jan 12 09:11:37 <HevvyMetal> what you mean unix wasn't always free???
Jan 12 09:12:07 <HevvyMetal> so anyway no jdk 8 love for android but i've heard of some ways to hack around it and i think there is an android lambda project you can look for or something thepoosh
Jan 12 09:12:24 <xgearx> can you answer - is it possible to add java8 support for android?
Jan 12 09:12:33 <HevvyMetal> define possible
Jan 12 09:12:35 <bankai_au> no it's not
Jan 12 09:13:01 <HevvyMetal> sure it's possible that google could add it in some how, or someone coul dhack it in or google could pay for it
Jan 12 09:13:07 <xgearx> i know about retrolamda but i want oficial support
Jan 12 09:13:12 <thepoosh> hmm
Jan 12 09:13:21 <HevvyMetal> does 1.8 generate 1.7 compatible bytecode?
Jan 12 09:13:31 <HevvyMetal> what does 1.8 have that you really need besides lamdas?
Jan 12 09:13:43 <xgearx> streams!
Jan 12 09:13:47 <thepoosh> lambdas are awesome
Jan 12 09:13:48 <HevvyMetal> what streams
Jan 12 09:14:06 <HevvyMetal> there are plenty of stream libraries for android xgearx
Jan 12 09:14:09 <xgearx> stream api + lambdas
Jan 12 09:14:21 <HevvyMetal> i mean what compiler specific things does it do?
Jan 12 09:14:26 <HevvyMetal> i'd like something like LINQ for java/android
Jan 12 09:14:38 <thepoosh> i was told linq will never happen on java
Jan 12 09:14:46 <xgearx> i mean streams - java 8 feture
Jan 12 09:14:48 <thepoosh> i thin it was JakeWharton who said it
Jan 12 09:15:26 <HevvyMetal> yeah he said it and then he retracted when i pasted him several implementations
Jan 12 09:15:40 <HevvyMetal> but then my computer crashed and all that searching and finding is now gone :(
Jan 12 09:15:58 <HevvyMetal> i remember mv was one and JOOQ was a possibility but JOOQ wants a sql and i want a nosql version
Jan 12 09:16:09 <HevvyMetal> but JOOQ certainly is a Linq-to-sql for java
Jan 12 09:16:14 <HevvyMetal> i just want the linq without the sql
Jan 12 09:17:01 <joshnz> So you just want list comprehensions?
Jan 12 09:17:26 <HevvyMetal> pretty much and being able to have a class and do someting like
Jan 12 09:18:00 <joshnz> So in short, even if I target 1.7 source syntax, I'll still need JDK 7, or can I use JDK 8?
Jan 12 09:18:10 <HevvyMetal> select().From(list).Where.EQ("FirstName", "Fred") or something etc
Jan 12 09:19:53 <HevvyMetal> https://github.com/julianhyde/linq4j
Jan 12 09:19:56 <joshnz> Must be libraries. Where is a filter, select is map
Jan 12 09:20:08 <HevvyMetal> http://abundantcode.com/best-java-equivalent-for-linq-c/
Jan 12 09:20:10 <joshnz> well there you go :) (Haven't looked at link(
Jan 12 09:20:38 <HevvyMetal> linq is supercool
Jan 12 09:20:51 <HevvyMetal> plinq is even cooler
Jan 12 09:21:23 <HevvyMetal> i wish java 8 would have picked up the field syntex from C# and got rid of all this get and set stuff
Jan 12 09:21:37 <HevvyMetal> I much prefer mary.LastName = fred.LastName then
Jan 12 09:21:56 <HevvyMetal> mary.setLastName(fred.getLastName())
Jan 12 09:23:58 <HevvyMetal> https://github.com/nicholas22/jpropel-light
Jan 12 09:23:59 <VnM> Mary and Fred got married?
Jan 12 09:25:26 <HevvyMetal> sure
Jan 12 09:25:53 <HevvyMetal> anyone using any nosql or in memory databases in here for android?
Jan 12 09:26:33 <HevvyMetal> realm?
Jan 12 09:28:02 <joshnz> I only found out about realm for iOS at the end of my iOS project, otherwise I would have been keen to check it out, so no, sorry
Jan 12 09:28:06 <joshnz> Looks cool though
Jan 12 09:28:25 <joshnz> They got Android support now?
Jan 12 09:28:49 <HevvyMetal> yeah so i hear
Jan 12 09:29:30 <HevvyMetal> i havent tried it yet because it auto persist and i want to just serialize occasionally
Jan 12 09:29:51 <xgearx> Can someone suggest solution code for onefinger image resize-rotate
Jan 12 09:30:10 <HevvyMetal> http://abundantcode.com/best-java-equivalent-for-linq-c/
Jan 12 09:30:17 <HevvyMetal> http://realm.io/news/realm-for-android/
Jan 12 09:30:49 <thana> does anyone know in which file or database android (4.2.2) stores the information about device administrators?
Jan 12 09:30:51 <HevvyMetal> but realm has a sexy linq like query language
Jan 12 09:30:53 <HevvyMetal> RealmResults<User> result = realm.where(User.class)
Jan 12 09:30:53 <HevvyMetal>                                  .greaterThan("age", 10)  // implicit AND
Jan 12 09:30:53 <HevvyMetal>                                  .beginGroup()
Jan 12 09:30:53 <HevvyMetal>                                       .equalTo("name", "Peter")
Jan 12 09:30:53 <HevvyMetal>                                       .or()
Jan 12 09:30:53 <HevvyMetal>                                       .contains("name", "Jo")
Jan 12 09:30:53 <HevvyMetal>                                  .endGroup()
Jan 12 09:30:54 <HevvyMetal>                                  .findAll();
Jan 12 09:31:06 <shmooz> HevvyMetal: when do you sleep /
Jan 12 09:31:08 <shmooz> ?
Jan 12 09:31:20 <HevvyMetal> soon its only 1:30am west coast and i was working on my consulting blog
Jan 12 09:31:25 <HevvyMetal> what tz are you in shmooz?
Jan 12 09:31:41 <xgearx> HevvyMetal: ormlite have similar querylanguage
Jan 12 09:31:41 <shmooz> Toronto
Jan 12 09:31:57 <HevvyMetal> ah you're the one that never sleeps
Jan 12 09:32:08 <HevvyMetal> right xgearx so does JOOQ but I don't want it to be SQL based
Jan 12 09:32:11 <shmooz> I just woke up
Jan 12 09:32:15 <HevvyMetal> i awnt it to be just in memory
Jan 12 09:32:22 <HevvyMetal> thats too early to wake up and be a programmer shmooz
Jan 12 09:32:28 <HevvyMetal> late nights are for real coders
Jan 12 09:32:45 <shmooz> CEO's wake up at 3:00 AM
Jan 12 09:32:53 <HevvyMetal> those aren't real coders
Jan 12 09:33:00 <HevvyMetal> those are type A Jocks
Jan 12 09:33:09 <HevvyMetal> and I thought its 4 or 5 am
Jan 12 09:33:17 <xgearx> as i know, you can setup sqlite db to inmemory
Jan 12 09:33:21 <HevvyMetal> what time do they sleep? 8 pm? cocaine
Jan 12 09:33:25 <shmooz> yes 4:33
Jan 12 09:33:39 <HevvyMetal> xgearx you can but i dont want to flatten the objects into relational at all whether its in memory or not
Jan 12 09:33:54 <HevvyMetal> i want them to be POJO in memory just like the JSON more or less
Jan 12 09:34:14 <HevvyMetal> the only thing i have agaisnt realm is i dont think they are pojo you have to inherit frmo RealmObject or soemthing which is a little lame
Jan 12 09:34:54 <HevvyMetal> public class User extends RealmObject {...} // puke
Jan 12 09:35:12 <HevvyMetal> why can't they do things wtih properties and reflection? that would make me happy
Jan 12 09:35:56 <HevvyMetal> Because objects are strongly tied to a Realm, they should be instantiated through the Realm directly:  //puke again
Jan 12 09:36:13 <HevvyMetal> it has thesexy syntax but i want something less restrictive..... it tries to be an OODB which is overkill
Jan 12 09:38:23 <HevvyMetal> but at lest its something hehe
Jan 12 09:42:31 <HevvyMetal> https://code.google.com/p/cqengine/
Jan 12 09:55:44 <ohsnap> i hate to ask such a broad and general question but i'm going to do it anyway. is making a basic 2d app that can read the phones GPS loc, use zxing to scan a barcode, and print the gps and barcode data over bluetooth to something like a zebra mobile printer a difficult thing to do or pretty cake?
Jan 12 09:56:10 <HevvyMetal> both
Jan 12 09:56:54 <HevvyMetal> it depends how familar you are with android and all that
Jan 12 09:56:54 <ohsnap> for something like that should i be using eclipse or ingellij?
Jan 12 09:57:05 <HevvyMetal> either one
Jan 12 09:57:18 <Leeds> firstly, that's not such a simple app... secondly, do you know Java?
Jan 12 09:57:30 <ohsnap> im familiar with android just not the development side of one. i pick up on things pretty quick, my main concern is compatibility across numerous older versions of android
Jan 12 09:57:37 <HevvyMetal> it isn't simple but it's not that hard either if you already have done most of those things
Jan 12 09:57:48 <HevvyMetal> ohsnap : for you, 6 months
Jan 12 09:57:55 <HevvyMetal> ohsnap: for me, 1 month or less
Jan 12 09:58:08 <ohsnap> really? even being an experienced app developer that is something that would take you 1 month?
Jan 12 09:58:13 <ohsnap> that is a bit terrifying
Jan 12 09:58:14 <HevvyMetal> get your boss to hire me ohsnap
Jan 12 09:58:19 <ohsnap> wtf do i have to learn dibol and pascal or some crap?
Jan 12 09:58:20 <HevvyMetal> i dunno what would you call it leeds?
Jan 12 09:58:22 <ohsnap> lisp? fortran?
Jan 12 09:58:35 <HevvyMetal> no just deal with android which alone is plenty of hassle
Jan 12 09:58:47 <HevvyMetal> the android UI is very difficult to deal with
Jan 12 09:59:06 <HevvyMetal> what would you call it Leeds from newbie to that app in time?
Jan 12 09:59:58 <Leeds> ohsnap: to be clear... you know Android as a user? you have no development experience, on Android or elsewhere, and specifically you don't know Java?
Jan 12 10:00:30 <ohsnap> let me put it this way, if i have to learn java, i will. i learned enough php in 1 week to create a rather massive php/mysql inventory system without using any frameworks
Jan 12 10:00:44 <Leeds> that's not a good thing
Jan 12 10:00:59 <ohsnap> i know android as a user somewhat. i dont own an android phone, i use a johns phone because fuck the nsa
Jan 12 10:01:08 <HevvyMetal> ohsnap i said a month or less it depends how many devices it needs to run on.... if everything went well maybe 2 weeks but generally with debugging and all that specs yadda i'd call it a month
Jan 12 10:01:09 <Leeds> then meh
Jan 12 10:01:16 <Leeds> months... how many depends on you
Jan 12 10:01:34 <HevvyMetal> go put up an ad on craigslist like everyone else saying you want it for $500
Jan 12 10:01:44 <HevvyMetal> then get ripped off by a few suckers
Jan 12 10:01:51 <Leeds> also, don't be paranoid... it's boring
Jan 12 10:02:06 <boredDev> hey, does anyone on here use haxe?
Jan 12 10:02:16 <HevvyMetal> if it was so easy to do android ohsnap everyone would do it
Jan 12 10:02:26 <HevvyMetal> since relatively few people do android, there must be a reason for that
Jan 12 10:02:38 <HevvyMetal> it sure aint php
Jan 12 10:02:46 <boredDev> what's ohsnap?
Jan 12 10:02:48 <ohsnap> it isnt so much paranoia. i mean, i have a very boring life. if they want to hear me talk to my mom sure, whatever. but the fact is these devices are recording tons of data on us and have been for many years now, that is fact, not conspiracy
Jan 12 10:03:11 <HevvyMetal> what does that have to do with your app ohsnap?
Jan 12 10:03:15 <boredDev> ohsnap: is a person.
Jan 12 10:03:36 <HevvyMetal> possibly
Jan 12 10:03:36 <boredDev> what's your app?
Jan 12 10:03:43 <ohsnap> HevvyMetal: i realize that. i was just using that as an example to illustrate-- i had absolutely zero experience with php, and in a week i was able to learn the language enough to create a mysql/php site that did some rather robust stuff including pulling image blobs from a remote mssql server and displaying them
Jan 12 10:04:01 <ohsnap> so it isnt that im saying php is anything like java, im just saying this is all pixels and it isnt hard for me to wrap my head around it
Jan 12 10:04:23 <HevvyMetal> ohsnap: yes well carry on then and start building it
Jan 12 10:04:32 <HevvyMetal> let us know how it goes in a few weeks when you finished it
Jan 12 10:04:36 <VnM> :x
Jan 12 10:04:46 <boredDev> php is just another programming language, and if you understand programming well enough, using it is rather easy.
Jan 12 10:04:58 <boredDev> and the internet...
Jan 12 10:04:59 <ohsnap> boredDev: i need to be able to get GPS coords from the phone, scan a barcode (right now im leaning towards using the zxing libs), and print the data of gps and barcode over bluetooth to probably a zebra mobile printer since they appear to have great battery life and are rugged mobile printers
Jan 12 10:05:27 <HevvyMetal> how long would that take you leeds or lasserix ?
Jan 12 10:05:44 <boredDev> that is way beyond me, but sounds interesting.
Jan 12 10:05:47 <ohsnap> HevvyMetal: luckily i do have a large space of time to tinker with this idea, you said maybe 6 months at the low end for me, so even if it does take me 6 months thats fine
Jan 12 10:05:57 <Leeds> dunno, there's a bunch of stuff I'd have to learn to do that... might be easy, might be hard
Jan 12 10:06:13 <HevvyMetal> what does this app do that something so simple is valuable and do you have money to pay for it to get done quicker?
Jan 12 10:06:32 <ohsnap> i cant discuss that, NDA
Jan 12 10:06:36 <ohsnap> do we have money? absolutely
Jan 12 10:06:43 <HevvyMetal> how much money ohsnap?
Jan 12 10:06:51 <HevvyMetal> money is the magic word
Jan 12 10:07:06 <VnM> I thought it was "please"
Jan 12 10:07:08 <ohsnap> ill put it to you this way, not long ago i was surrounded by multiple multi millionaires that are involved in this
Jan 12 10:07:17 <ohsnap> and they are all weird dumbasses, money does weird things to people
Jan 12 10:07:27 <HevvyMetal> how much more sales would you get if you could sell it in march instead of october and how much money do you have to pay?
Jan 12 10:07:34 <HevvyMetal> yeah well i know a lot of very nice well balanced wealthy people too
Jan 12 10:07:34 <ohsnap> one guy is salaried at over 500k, made a 600k bonus for a recent project, and didnt know how to decompress a rar file
Jan 12 10:07:37 <ohsnap> if that tells you anything
Jan 12 10:07:42 <HevvyMetal> that's nothing
Jan 12 10:07:50 <HevvyMetal> my guitarist friend has his own jet
Jan 12 10:08:12 <HevvyMetal> VnM: yes that's right. Please let me pay you money!!!
Jan 12 10:08:20 <ohsnap> well tbh this app isn't necessarily going to 'make' any money in and of itself. i mean this is not something that we even want to have available in the app store if that tells you anything
Jan 12 10:08:29 <VnM> As you wish sir!
Jan 12 10:08:50 <HevvyMetal> so then why spend 6 months of your life on it ohsnap ?
Jan 12 10:08:57 <HevvyMetal> it must be worth something
Jan 12 10:08:58 <ohsnap> because i like to learn stuff
Jan 12 10:09:04 <HevvyMetal> uh huh
Jan 12 10:09:05 <ohsnap> it will be worth something, when it is done
Jan 12 10:09:13 <HevvyMetal> well thats good keep learning and when you wanna pay someone pm me :)
Jan 12 10:09:16 <HevvyMetal> i've done all those things
Jan 12 10:09:18 <HevvyMetal> scan barcodes
Jan 12 10:09:20 <HevvyMetal> collect gps
Jan 12 10:09:23 <HevvyMetal> print over bt
Jan 12 10:09:36 <HevvyMetal> most people have not done all 3
Jan 12 10:10:19 <HevvyMetal> anyway just a thought and if not i'm sure you'll be in here asking a lot of questions for the next few months hehe no worries
Jan 12 10:10:23 <ohsnap> so seriously android development is /that/ much of a beast?
Jan 12 10:10:53 <HevvyMetal> I think so
Jan 12 10:11:05 <HevvyMetal> and I've programmed for a lot of environments
Jan 12 10:11:10 <Chainfire> its not easy to master but in 6 months you'll definitely be able to do all those things with bells on
Jan 12 10:11:25 <HevvyMetal> I don't want to crticise android too much in here tho but i think some parts are maddening actually
Jan 12 10:12:01 <Mavrik> ohsnap, most of what do you want is rather easy as long as you follow the doc, the BT part can be annoying on older versions though
Jan 12 10:12:25 <Mavrik> maybe start with 4.4 and Android-compatible wifi printers
Jan 12 10:13:33 <HevvyMetal> yeah well that too mavrik but prenting in bitmap mode isnt that easy and also recovering from allt he errors and background processing and retries yadda yadda
Jan 12 10:13:37 <HevvyMetal> printing
Jan 12 10:13:50 <HevvyMetal> i just think making a solid app on android is a lot of work compared to just making something that sorta runs
Jan 12 10:15:09 <Mavrik> *shrug* If he already programmed anything it's not such a huge problem as long as you read d.android.com
Jan 12 10:16:13 <HevvyMetal> yeah and the viewpagers and fragments and compatibility libraries and resolutions and the activity lifecycle yadda yadda
Jan 12 10:16:21 <HevvyMetal> all the multithreading
Jan 12 10:16:31 <HevvyMetal> how long would you say it takes mavrik?
Jan 12 10:31:43 <Mavrik> HevvyMetal, two weeks max.
Jan 12 10:31:54 <Mavrik> because you don't need anything of what you said.
Jan 12 10:34:22 <HevvyMetal> possibly mavrik but it's a rare app that does no rest services and has a completely trivial UI but even then, just printing, barcoding, and gpsing would take at least 2 weeks so then a few more weeks for basic UI, java  i dunno
Jan 12 10:36:57 <HevvyMetal> anyway nite peoples
Jan 12 10:37:00 * HevvyMetal passes out
Jan 12 10:44:37 <boredDev> ugh, why are my updates for the sdk manager running so slow?
Jan 12 10:45:09 <MasterAwesome> slow internet :P
Jan 12 10:45:11 <Chainfire> have turned it off and on again ?
Jan 12 10:45:19 <Mavrik> NSA.
Jan 12 10:45:27 <boredDev> my internet is a lot faster than 77kb/s
Jan 12 10:46:12 <boredDev> maybe it's a port issue. oh well, guess I'm waiting 30 minutes
Jan 12 10:47:45 <MasterAwesome> lol Chainfire
Jan 12 10:50:49 <yango> ##java
Jan 12 10:50:52 <yango> j/ ##java
Jan 12 10:51:00 <MasterAwesome> @_@?
Jan 12 10:51:00 <yango> sorry
Jan 12 10:51:23 <Mavrik> don't go there :/
Jan 12 10:51:32 <Mavrik> It's a horrible place that will make you lose trust in humanity.
Jan 12 10:51:33 * yango also /joins ##stupid_bastards 
Jan 12 10:51:40 <MasterAwesome> haha
Jan 12 10:52:08 <yango> Enterprise Java makes me lose all trust in humanity already
Jan 12 10:53:46 <Chainfire> ##<insert-language-here> is always a cesspool
Jan 12 10:54:58 <danijoo> they are all full of guys behaving like Linus Torvalds ^^'
Jan 12 10:55:38 <Chainfire> pretty much
Jan 12 10:56:40 <yango> I can ask my enterprise java question here if you are all so nice and they are all so evil 8D
Jan 12 10:57:36 <danijoo> we are the same. we just hid the secod # to fool noobs
Jan 12 10:58:02 <exadeci> Hello, when recording a sound is there a way to set the ID3 tags ? Like the title associated with the sound ? Without an external lib ?
Jan 12 11:28:26 <barq> I have a fragment, where onActivityCreated is only called the first time the parent activity is called. When I navigate to another activity and back to the original one for some reason onActivityCreated is not called. Do I need to finish the activity when navigating away to force this or what could be going wrong?
Jan 12 11:29:40 <Chainfire> if you open another activity this doesnt mean the previous activity is necessarily destroyed. and if the old one isn't destroyed a new doesn't need to be created
Jan 12 11:30:29 <Chainfire> the code you want to execute in onActivityCreated is probably better suited for onStart or onResume
Jan 12 11:31:40 <barq> If I look at the Activity stack I can't see the old activity though.
Jan 12 11:32:36 <Chainfire> hmm
Jan 12 11:33:24 <Chainfire> try logging activity.toString() in onResume... often toString() includes a pointer/handle, you can check if its actually the same activity
Jan 12 11:34:55 <danijoo> beside that, it might still be better to move your code to sth like onResume as Chainfire said
Jan 12 11:40:02 <barq> It does work when moving to onStart, but I don't understand the difference between having the code in onStart and onActivityCreated as I use either one method or the other and shouldn't have any concurrency issues there.
Jan 12 11:42:03 <danijoo> the difference is that onActivityCreated has some weird description in the javadoc that makes everybody who isnt an android guru unsure when its called and when not
Jan 12 11:42:19 <barq> ok
Jan 12 11:42:24 <danijoo> onStart is simple: called when fragment is visible to the user
Jan 12 11:43:56 <danijoo> Ready, steady, Go! - onCreate, onStart, onResume :p
Jan 12 11:46:59 <barq> So you never use onActivityCreated?
Jan 12 11:48:15 * Chainfire has never used it
Jan 12 11:49:26 <Chainfire> I still think the activity isn't destroyed/recreated at all
Jan 12 11:49:36 <danijoo> me too
Jan 12 11:49:45 <danijoo> and I dont see a reason to use that callbacl
Jan 12 11:49:47 <danijoo> anyways
Jan 12 11:50:07 <danijoo> onCreate, onCreateView, onStart and onResume is enough for 99.9% of all use cases
Jan 12 12:18:52 <MartialLaw> hey im having a huge problem with replacing my fragments. I have a 2 listviews, all items in both listviews go to the same fragment and perform the same replace transaction. when i click on an item from listview1 it replaces fine and when i pop the stack it goes back to the previous fragment. when i click on an item in list2 the fragment shows but
Jan 12 12:18:53 <MartialLaw> when i press back to pop it, it brings me to the previous activity instead of the previous fragment...interestingly enough I have a layout in the second fragment that is partially transparent... i can actually see the first fragment under it
Jan 12 12:24:03 <bluecup> guess who’s back
Jan 12 12:24:04 <bluecup> back again
Jan 12 12:24:08 <bluecup> bluecup’s back
Jan 12 12:24:10 <bluecup> tell a friend :D
Jan 12 12:26:06 <MartialLaw> can you help me bluecup?
Jan 12 12:26:24 <bluecup> MartialLaw yeah, what’s up?
Jan 12 12:26:44 <MartialLaw> hey im having a huge problem with replacing my fragments. I have a 2 listviews, all items in both listviews go to the same fragment and perform the same replace transaction. when i click on an item from listview1 it replaces fine and when i pop the stack it goes back to the previous fragment. when i click on an item in list2 the fragment shows but
Jan 12 12:26:44 <MartialLaw> when i press back to pop it, it brings me to the previous activity instead of the previous fragment...interestingly enough I have a layout in the second fragment that is partially transparent... i can actually see the first fragment under it
Jan 12 12:27:18 <MartialLaw> the fragment does seem to actually be replacing the other one but rather placing it on top of it.... strange thing is i call the same exact method to replace it in listview1 and it works great
Jan 12 12:29:26 <bluecup> the only thing that pops into my mind is that you’re not using replace, but as you are, hm.. you using popbackstackimmediate or popbackstack?
Jan 12 12:30:58 <bluecup> oh wait, you have 2 listviews in 1 fragment or in one listview in each fragment and two fragments?
Jan 12 12:31:36 <MartialLaw> i have 1 fragment that contains 2 listviews
Jan 12 12:31:46 <MartialLaw> i am calling popbackstack when the back is pressed
Jan 12 12:32:38 <MartialLaw> it sounds like i am not calling replace but i am... it's just that the fragment below it is not being removed
Jan 12 12:32:50 <MartialLaw> but ONLY if i do the original replace from listview #2
Jan 12 12:33:02 <MartialLaw> its so weird
Jan 12 12:34:01 <MartialLaw> I am using a TabHost and used a big workaround to get it to have fragmenttransactions within fragments inside the tabhost. I mean obviously Android doesn't provide an out of box way to do this because...well.. it's Android (workaround-city) so it's probably something going on with that
Jan 12 12:35:05 <bluecup> Try keeping a WeakReference in the activity to the fragment and manually killing it if it isn’t
Jan 12 12:36:23 <bluecup> oh man I never used a tabhost :/
Jan 12 13:51:35 <t0th_--> hi, how i can solve this:  You need to use a Theme.AppCompat theme (or descendant) with this activity. ?
Jan 12 13:52:11 <Mavrik> set theme.appcompat as the theme on that activity.
Jan 12 13:53:43 <Zharf> cool, someone's phone is throwing exceptions on android.text.format.DateFormat.getDateFormatOrder(Context) call :p
Jan 12 13:55:25 <t0th_--> Mavrik: in androidmanifest?
Jan 12 13:55:46 <Mavrik> t0th_--, yes, go read up on the appcompat tutorial :)
Jan 12 13:55:52 <t0th_--> thanks
Jan 12 13:58:36 <t0th_--> i put android:theme="@style/MyAppTheme" in my activity\
Jan 12 13:58:39 <t0th_--> still error
Jan 12 14:00:50 <yiati> what error
Jan 12 14:01:09 <bluecup> Zharf does it say what phone? that’s damn weird :O
Jan 12 14:01:47 <Zharf> TRUE SMART 7.0 Quadcore
Jan 12 14:02:01 <Zharf> calling it causes java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Bad pattern character 'E' in E, d MMM yyyy
Jan 12 14:02:16 <Zharf> it's entirely internal bug
Jan 12 14:03:20 <t0th_--> You need to use a Theme.AppCompat theme (or descendant) with this activity.
Jan 12 14:03:39 <t0th_--> MyAppTheme <style name="MyAppTheme" parent="android:Theme.Material">
Jan 12 14:04:22 <t0th_--> styles in v21
Jan 12 14:09:37 <ReScO> How can i check if my app is bought or pirated?
Jan 12 14:10:49 <Zharf> ReScO, use the licensing service, documented on d.android.com
Jan 12 14:11:38 <ReScO> That's easily bypassed by tools like LuckyPatcher
Jan 12 14:12:19 <Zharf> all means of DRM are essentially useless, so just take your pick
Jan 12 14:14:02 <yiati> toth_: That's your problem. You are not using Theme.AppCompat with the Activity, you are using Theme.Material
Jan 12 14:19:37 <JakeWharton> well there's your problem
Jan 12 14:21:43 <elektrinis> anyone knows why mobile signature would not work with 4.4.2?
Jan 12 14:21:52 <elektrinis> stock samsung i9192
Jan 12 14:26:31 <theblang> has anyone noticed a slight flicker sometimes when changing Activities?  See five seconds of this screen capture https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_videoeditor&v=yiIEFOpkS0M#t=19
Jan 12 14:50:41 <ReScO> what should i add to my build.gradle for licensing?
Jan 12 14:50:46 <ReScO> the docs are outdated
Jan 12 14:51:26 <yiati> Dunno if I would necessarily put licensing in my build.gradle
Jan 12 14:51:49 <yiati> That file specifically is what I mean, if I were to put it anywhere
Jan 12 14:52:35 <ReScO> How would i add it to a Intellij IDEA project then?
Jan 12 14:53:28 <Mattx> Hello there
Jan 12 14:53:31 <yiati> wat? Can you not just add the permission to your manifest
Jan 12 14:53:39 <untrothy> How is it possibile that my Intent chooser shows no apps for a intent.setType("text/plain")? I create my intent like this: http://pastebin.com/8dR8YmB9 and then simply start it with startActivity(Intent.createChooser(sendEmail, context.getResources().getText(R.string.sendWith)));
Jan 12 14:53:57 <Mattx> I'm doing mySubView.setVisibility(View.VISIBLE) after onCreateView, but it's not shown
Jan 12 14:54:06 <Mattx> does it has anything to do with the view already rendered?
Jan 12 14:54:20 <Mattx> can I do that?
Jan 12 14:55:28 <ReScO> yiati: i need the libraries too?
Jan 12 14:57:13 <fanno> hi everyone, one of my app has reported this error from a user http://pastebin.com/7qJ6xb92 i have been doing a bit of searching. and one selution it seems looks to be to maybe save the string to a file first ? however.  if the string is so bit it wont matter since i need to read it all later ? i need to convert it in to json (using gson). and advice would be nice.
Jan 12 15:02:27 <fanno> damit sorry for asking and leaving this quick, wife calling ! =P
Jan 12 15:02:35 <fanno> have a good day everyone
Jan 12 15:04:59 <danijoo> Mattx, maybe its shown but has no size?
Jan 12 15:05:44 <ReScO> danijoo: how do i add licensing to my gradle project?
Jan 12 15:05:55 <Mattx> no, I don't think it is the case danijoo, because if I do exactly the same BEFORE onCreateView returns the layout, it works. but if I run that code inside a onClick callback, it gets executed but the UI is not updated
Jan 12 15:06:19 <danijoo> Mattx, show code/xml
Jan 12 15:06:45 <danijoo> ReScO, dont know what you mean with "licensing". something like "this is published under GPL blablabla"?
Jan 12 15:08:42 <ReScO> danijoo: Google Play Licensing
Jan 12 15:08:49 <ReScO> danijoo: like, paid app and stuff
Jan 12 15:09:03 <Wacky386> uh is there a way to develop android apps on a remote machine? cause my laptop is quite underpowered and I really want to learn
Jan 12 15:09:06 <danijoo> paid app has nothing to do with licensing
Jan 12 15:09:15 <ReScO> Yeah, it does
Jan 12 15:09:18 <danijoo> and if you mean signing, read the docs
Jan 12 15:09:25 <ReScO> danijoo: i mean licensing
Jan 12 15:09:40 <ReScO> http://developer.android.com/google/play/licensing/setting-up.html
Jan 12 15:10:03 <ReScO> Only Eclipse stuff, no Android Studio, which is based on Intellij IDEA
Jan 12 15:10:11 <ReScO> So, how do i add licensing to my app?
Jan 12 15:10:29 <Mattx> danijoo, https://gist.github.com/anonymous/695381b867304b99f35a
Jan 12 15:10:36 <ReScO> There are lines like compile 'com.android.support:appcompat-v7:21.0.3' in my build.gradle
Jan 12 15:10:48 <ReScO> what is the right line for licensing?
Jan 12 15:11:07 <danijoo> "In general, adding licensing to an application should have no impact whatsoever on the application's build configuration."
Jan 12 15:11:21 * ReScO sighs
Jan 12 15:11:29 <Mattx> (it should have been GONE instead of INVISIBLE in the code I pasted, same result anyway)
Jan 12 15:11:31 <danijoo> ReScO, Why do you think i know that :)
Jan 12 15:11:36 <ReScO> I need to add the libraries so i can import the motherfucker
Jan 12 15:11:37 <danijoo> and highlight me
Jan 12 15:11:52 <danijoo> then add those libraries. I think you know how to do that
Jan 12 15:11:57 <ReScO> No i don't
Jan 12 15:12:04 <ReScO> that's what i'm asking, you troll
Jan 12 15:12:22 * ReScO uses low orbit facepalm cannon
Jan 12 15:12:27 <danijoo> well. if you are that rude, feel free to help yourself and goodbye :)
Jan 12 15:12:39 <ReScO> You seem to be trollin' me.
Jan 12 15:14:14 <danijoo> Mattx, can you show the xml that corresponds to that
Jan 12 15:14:21 <Mattx> of course, one sec
Jan 12 15:14:25 <danijoo> the code looks fine for me and *should* work. mh
Jan 12 15:14:43 <ahop> hi bluecup!
Jan 12 15:14:48 <ahop> (it's joseph)
Jan 12 15:15:01 <bluecup> hey ahop :)
Jan 12 15:15:17 <yiati> ReScO: You can include the project the same way you include any other project. There is nothing in there about Eclipse specifically that is important
Jan 12 15:15:18 <danijoo> you are sure "fullscreen" isnt just something that has (by accident) a hight of 0 dp or sth like that?
Jan 12 15:17:09 * danijoo wonders how one can develop in android without knowing how to add libraries to a project..
Jan 12 15:17:13 <Mattx> danijoo, https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ec8afef230f269b553d2
Jan 12 15:18:04 <Mattx> danijoo, no, I'm sure it should be working because if I call setFullscreen(true) outside the onClick callback it works well
Jan 12 15:18:18 <danijoo> youtubePlayerView. im trying to get that stupid thing working too atm ^^
Jan 12 15:18:31 <danijoo> yeah it looks fine..
Jan 12 15:19:13 <trin_ity> Hello All!
Jan 12 15:19:15 <Mattx> the activity has android:configChanges="orientation|screenSize|keyboardHidden" in case it matters
Jan 12 15:19:18 <danijoo> funny fact. i tried to implement the exact same thing yesterday, and then dismissed it :p
Jan 12 15:19:25 <bluecup> Hi trin_ity
Jan 12 15:19:27 <Chainfire> ReScO see the "copying the lvl sources to your application" section
Jan 12 15:19:29 <Mattx> danijoo, I got disconnected, did you say something after "it looks fine"?
Jan 12 15:19:45 <Chainfire> ReScO implementing lvl as a library is weird, because you need to modify its sources for some thigns
Jan 12 15:19:48 <danijoo> only that i tried the same yesterday :p
Jan 12 15:19:54 <Chainfire> might as well include it in your project directly
Jan 12 15:19:58 <danijoo> and it didnt work (for other reasons)
Jan 12 15:20:08 <Mattx> really? I've spent the last few days with this danijoo. youtube player really sucks. I hate I can't initialize more than one player at the same time
Jan 12 15:20:12 <trin_ity> I have a problem with a listview, does anyone could help me?
Jan 12 15:20:15 <danijoo> and as a workarround i now open youtube with an intent when the fullscreen button is pressed
Jan 12 15:20:17 <boredDev> hey, I just started using Haxeflixel to develop android games, I'm only getting started, but when I port to android it starts the program, but nothing happens. just a blank screen
Jan 12 15:20:24 <bluecup> trin_ity what kind of problem?
Jan 12 15:20:27 <danijoo> som fullscreen = open youtube activity for me
Jan 12 15:20:28 <boredDev> anyone know why this might be happening?
Jan 12 15:20:36 <Mattx> did you try that? this thing I'm doing is a workaround because I couldn't add more than one player in my linear layout. so I'm playing the videos in the same player in fullscreen
Jan 12 15:21:06 <danijoo> no
Jan 12 15:21:22 <Mattx> and instead of the player I'm placing a YoutubeThumbnailView
Jan 12 15:21:31 <Mattx> on the linear layout I'm mean
Jan 12 15:22:04 <trin_ity> my listview listed all the itens fine, but i tried to use notifyDataSetChanged(), i done some changes and now it gives me an error
Jan 12 15:23:09 <Mattx> danijoo, what was your problem? I managed to place one player, but that wasn't enough. maybe you were trying this?
Jan 12 15:23:30 <danijoo> no I was messing arround with youtube supportfragments ;)
Jan 12 15:23:35 <danijoo> but im fine with my solution now
Jan 12 15:23:43 <danijoo> no ideas for your problem though :(
Jan 12 15:24:05 <Mattx> it's no longer a youtubeplayer problem. I think android is not updating the ui for some oter reason
Jan 12 15:24:06 <Mattx> other *
Jan 12 15:24:24 <Mattx> works the same even if I remove the player :|
Jan 12 15:25:21 <Leeds> trin_ity: is it a secret error?
Jan 12 15:25:44 <danijoo> Mattx, but its really simple code.. this really should work
Jan 12 15:25:54 <Mattx> I knowww
Jan 12 15:25:57 <Mattx> weird it doesn't
Jan 12 15:25:59 <bluecup> @all http://imgur.com/jacoj
Jan 12 15:26:05 <bluecup> it is in the header :)
Jan 12 15:26:10 <danijoo> are you sure you assigned the IDs correctly? :p
Jan 12 15:26:45 <Mattx> if I didn't it shouldn't work with setFullscreen(true) outside the callback
Jan 12 15:26:52 <Mattx> I wish that was the problem :p
Jan 12 15:28:10 * Leeds puts trin_ity on the "asks for help, doesn't want help" pile
Jan 12 15:28:24 <danijoo> ^^
Jan 12 15:29:04 <trin_ity> nope Leeds
Jan 12 15:29:22 <trin_ity> java.lang.RuntimeException: Your content must have a ListView whose id attribute is 'android.R.id.list'
Jan 12 15:29:53 <danijoo> trin_ity, did you see what bluecup posted?
Jan 12 15:30:17 <trin_ity> yes
Jan 12 15:30:29 <ReScO> Chainfire: i'm using Intellij IDEA
Jan 12 15:30:36 <danijoo> so where is your stacktrace and your code?
Jan 12 15:30:36 <ReScO> Not Eclipse
Jan 12 15:31:31 <Chainfire> ReScO I didn't know using IntelliJ prevented you from copy/pasting files
Jan 12 15:31:33 <ReScO> Chainfire: http://i.gyazo.com/43cb77176dcbbfd9a96e012b80acc986.png
Jan 12 15:31:47 <ReScO> I tried adding them
Jan 12 15:32:17 <ReScO> Added this to the Project Libraries: http://i.gyazo.com/5b5e95a332c56df6f6fac50b81df914c.png
Jan 12 15:32:26 <danijoo> that was really worth a screenshot ^^'
Jan 12 15:32:42 <t0th_--> hi
Jan 12 15:32:47 <t0th_--> where i can change http://cl.ly/image/2E1K3b353M3Z this color green?
Jan 12 15:33:08 <ReScO> http://i.gyazo.com/a8c73436a0574fba0334e22192a5acb2.png here's the Module's settings
Jan 12 15:33:14 <danijoo> t0th_--, for material design its just android:colorAccent
Jan 12 15:33:47 <Leeds> trin_ity: you need to help us to help you... if you want help
Jan 12 15:34:16 <danijoo> t0th_--, for holo design you can use http://android-holo-colors.com/ to create the needed drawables to change it
Jan 12 15:34:22 <fernandopaiva> anybody could help me ?
Jan 12 15:34:24 <fernandopaiva> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27901250/edittext-hide-when-type-a-text
Jan 12 15:34:30 <MikeWallaceDev_> ok, so I just watched Jake's video on Parley about Dagger2 and I STILL can't see why I would want to use injection. Basically the video said "so to avoid writing these 9 lines of boiler plate code, let's write modules and Components and Injectors with a pile of annotations and blah blah blah. Now, I know that they example was a technical example and not a actual use case example. Can anyone point me to a real good example of why I
Jan 12 15:34:30 <MikeWallaceDev_>  would want to use Injection?
Jan 12 15:35:44 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, do you have something like android:configChanges="keyboardHidden|orientation"  in your manifest?
Jan 12 15:36:05 <fernandopaiva> I have: android:windowSoftInputMode="adjustPan|adjustResize"
Jan 12 15:36:29 <fernandopaiva> and : android:configChanges="keyboardHidden|orientation"
Jan 12 15:36:30 <danijoo> MikeWallaceDev_, If you are fine with writing the boilerplace code, feel free to do so
Jan 12 15:36:47 <danijoo> but for big activities, it can end with a lot of lines that you can replace with those annotations
Jan 12 15:37:34 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, well what you do is telling android that it should not resize the activity match the new space when the keyboard is shown
Jan 12 15:37:49 <danijoo> thats why the keyboard can overlay your layout and the edittext
Jan 12 15:38:06 <MikeWallaceDev_> danijoo, I get that (I don't believe it, but I get it). Can you point me to a good use case?
Jan 12 15:38:11 <bluecup> MikeWallaceDev_ MVP architecture is easier, changing dependencies as you wish, retrofit and networking with dependencies so you inject different API interfaces and so on and so on…
Jan 12 15:38:18 <t0th_--> danijoo: it is material design
Jan 12 15:38:23 <t0th_--> my accent color is red
Jan 12 15:38:56 <MikeWallaceDev_> bluecup, that's my thought also...
Jan 12 15:39:01 <danijoo> MikeWallaceDev_, no. its just a lazy thing. there are no good or bad usecases. some use it to inject a single view and replace a single line with that
Jan 12 15:39:04 <danijoo> its just.. taste
Jan 12 15:39:10 <MikeWallaceDev_> But it's such a big thing, I want to get a better feel for it
Jan 12 15:39:22 <danijoo> t0th_--, if your accentColor is red (and correctly set), this underline should be red too
Jan 12 15:39:23 <fernandopaiva> danijoo, here my manifest: http://pastebin.com/Na5XeZ17
Jan 12 15:39:28 <danijoo> you must set it *wrong*
Jan 12 15:39:54 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, remove  android:configChanges="keyboardHidden|orientation" if you want the activity to be resized when the keyboard pops out
Jan 12 15:40:25 <MikeWallaceDev_> danijoo, my issue with that is why would so many people be working on this if it adds so little value?  There must be a good use case where using Injection is actually better than not.
Jan 12 15:40:51 <danijoo> well. If you have that library by hand, you can use it in many apps
Jan 12 15:41:03 <danijoo> and its really handy
Jan 12 15:41:27 <bluecup> MikeWallaceDev_ yeah, it’s a big thing, kinda acquired taste. You know how you don’t see why people drink whiskey and just would rather drink beer? But then in a while you start drinking whiskey because it kinda does taste good, until you become a fan :)
Jan 12 15:41:38 <MikeWallaceDev_> agreed, but I have to actually code to use it... (the modules and such)
Jan 12 15:42:04 <Fraz> Hey
Jan 12 15:42:21 <danijoo> everybody hates writing the same lines over and over again just to get all their dependencies ready
Jan 12 15:42:31 <danijoo> its so much easier to just do an @Inject
Jan 12 15:42:42 <MikeWallaceDev_> bluecup, exactly. Both get you drunk.
Jan 12 15:42:49 <Fraz> For some reason on this pc I cant browse my files on any android device. The explorer window keeps stopping responding when i try
Jan 12 15:43:01 <Fraz> danijoo i think ive narrowed the problem down a bit
Jan 12 15:43:03 <danijoo> Fraz, still no adb-luck?
Jan 12 15:43:06 <bluecup> MikeWallaceDev_ so with usages, when you span over multiple apps by time, you’ll notice how it’s a lot quicker to write a few modules and switch presenters and interactors depending on the use case then to write a ton of boilerplate just to achieve the same thing, slower.
Jan 12 15:43:18 <Fraz> i got the dialog to show on the other pc
Jan 12 15:43:40 <Fraz> but still not on this one, it seems to be something specific on this pc
Jan 12 15:44:02 <Fraz> i can browse the files on my tablet with the other pc, on this one i cant
Jan 12 15:44:21 <Fraz> both windows 8.1 installed from the exact same disk and both have the same usb driver
Jan 12 15:45:31 <Fraz> so, any idea what else would stop me being able to browse the files on the pc? I think if i get that fixed ill be able to use adb then
Jan 12 15:45:36 <ReScO> Chainfire: after trying to add the LVL files, Intellij IDEA reported that the android plugin crashed and that i have to restart
Jan 12 15:45:44 <ReScO> if someone could just explain how i can add licening to my project, that would be nice.
Jan 12 15:45:44 <MikeWallaceDev_> If the only value in Injection is less boilerplate, then in my opinion there is no value. So that can't be the reason why they write such complicated injection libraries...
Jan 12 15:46:09 <danijoo> ReScO, have you tried turning it off and on again?
Jan 12 15:46:41 <fernandopaiva> danijoo, I removed but doesn't work...EditText hide
Jan 12 15:46:53 <danijoo> MikeWallaceDev_, thats your opinion. I wouldnt sit down and write the code for it too, but im happy someone did
Jan 12 15:47:10 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, hide = getting overlayed by keyboard?
Jan 12 15:47:17 <danijoo> or hide = dissapearing
Jan 12 15:47:30 <MikeWallaceDev_> I know it's my opinion, that's why I wrote "in my opinion" :D
Jan 12 15:47:32 <ReScO> danijoo: if you can't help me please don't say anything.
Jan 12 15:47:40 * ReScO is getting seriously pissed off
Jan 12 15:47:51 <danijoo> ReScO, I can
Jan 12 15:47:53 <fernandopaiva> danijoo, http://i.imgur.com/ppXlZfQ.png
Jan 12 15:47:59 <MikeWallaceDev_> ReScO, but did you try turning it off and on again??
Jan 12 15:48:11 <fernandopaiva> http://i.imgur.com/YD9VrIB.png
Jan 12 15:48:25 * bluecup thinks ReScO didn’t try turning it off and on again
Jan 12 15:48:34 <ReScO> guys, please, stop trolling me
Jan 12 15:48:36 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, I think i see the problem... can you show me the layout xml of that?
Jan 12 15:48:44 <ReScO> before i punch someone in the face around here
Jan 12 15:48:45 <MikeWallaceDev_> ReScO, seriously man.  We want to help you (and everyone) just choose your questions mate :)
Jan 12 15:48:59 <danijoo> ReScO, maybe you should learn being polite first
Jan 12 15:49:06 <ReScO> How do i add Google Play Licensing to my project in ANdroid Studio/Intellij IDEA?
Jan 12 15:49:06 <danijoo> im pretty sure there is a channel for that too
Jan 12 15:49:12 <MikeWallaceDev_> but threatening violence over the internet just makes you look stupid :D
Jan 12 15:49:13 <MikeWallaceDev_> hahaha
Jan 12 15:49:35 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev_: i mean here where i actually am in the physical world
Jan 12 15:49:44 <fernandopaiva> danijoo,
Jan 12 15:49:45 <fernandopaiva> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27901250/edittext-hide-when-type-a-text/27901455?noredirect=1#comment44206690_27901455
Jan 12 15:50:05 <fernandopaiva> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27901250/edittext-hide-when-type-a-text/
Jan 12 15:50:08 <MikeWallaceDev_> That's what I mean ReScO , that's too broad a question.  You have to go read, try it, then ask specific questions
Jan 12 15:50:36 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, the reason simple is that there is not enough room to show the edit text under the icon
Jan 12 15:50:41 <ReScO> i'm having temper issues, so please, don't troll me, i tried adding it as a Library, Module, just copying the library/com folder to my src folder
Jan 12 15:50:43 <danijoo> what do you want to see when keyboard pops out?
Jan 12 15:51:02 <danijoo> how should it look
Jan 12 15:51:24 <MikeWallaceDev_> Honestly, ReScO , I'm happy that you are still here. You were here yesterday, and were getting a hard time. And you're still here, and that shows dedication. We like that in a Dev. :)
Jan 12 15:51:55 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev_: i still haven't fixed the fragments issue even
Jan 12 15:52:07 <MikeWallaceDev_> And that's why we are still answering you, even if you think we're trolling. Trolling would be us giving you incorrect answers to make you code for hours for nothing...
Jan 12 15:52:12 <ReScO> Tried reading about it but couldn't find any answers to my questions
Jan 12 15:52:33 <ReScO> At least i removed the tabs and added a TitleStrip...
Jan 12 15:52:41 <fernandopaiva> danijoo, when keyboard pops out I want type text in EditText
Jan 12 15:52:49 <MikeWallaceDev_> ReScO, it takes time mate. LIke LOTS of time. But you are showing dedication, and that's good.
Jan 12 15:52:58 <ReScO> On the other hand, my other app does work, but that uses Activities instead of Fragments
Jan 12 15:53:10 <ReScO> I've been in here since i started android devving :P
Jan 12 15:53:16 <MikeWallaceDev_> I've been dev'ing Android for 5 years, and developing for 30... So give yourself time.
Jan 12 15:53:24 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, yes but how should it look like. I mean its pretty obvisous that there isnt enough room for the icon, showing the edit text and the keyboard. you have to plan what you want to see in this case
Jan 12 15:53:30 <ReScO> iSDP, iSeeDeadPixels, Anthraxium, etc
Jan 12 15:53:38 <MikeWallaceDev_> Really? Sorry, first time that I see you :)  My bad.
Jan 12 15:53:39 <da3m0n22> Hi, if I want to include same layout for both xlarge and sw600dp (at least one of the quantifiers has to be matched), what is correct way? layout-sw600dp-xlarge ?
Jan 12 15:53:41 <danijoo> should the icon disapear and make room for the edittext for example
Jan 12 15:53:42 <ReScO> :P
Jan 12 15:54:35 <Fraz> Here is what i get when i try to browser my tablet via windows, any suggestions? http://www.twitch.tv/fraz_uk
Jan 12 15:54:38 <ReScO> but MikeWallaceDev_, currently my import statement can't resolve the symbol, whatever i try i cannot add LVL to my project, i'm using Intellij IDEA, and i have a "module" called app, what should i do to add the licensing library to my project?
Jan 12 15:54:45 <ReScO> I'm pretty much stuck here
Jan 12 15:54:48 <MikeWallaceDev_> so for the licensing, just go read up, it should tell you exactly where to put it.  What was the Fragment issue again?
Jan 12 15:55:03 <ReScO> I've googled everything, even the docs can't help me
Jan 12 15:55:10 <danijoo> ReScO, lets be honest. What did you do so far? can you see the library project in the project? on the right bar?
Jan 12 15:55:19 <danijoo> left*
Jan 12 15:55:30 <MikeWallaceDev> oh, so it's a module question, no a licensing question.
Jan 12 15:55:42 <fernandopaiva> danijoo, there's any way when I type text the Fragment make align automatically ?
Jan 12 15:55:52 <danijoo> MikeWallaceDev, that licinsing library must be included as a library project.
Jan 12 15:56:00 <fernandopaiva> align about keyboard
Jan 12 15:56:15 <Fraz> danijoo, see the stream?
Jan 12 15:56:18 <ReScO> The last time i tried importing it, it said it can't mix non-gradle with gradle stuff
Jan 12 15:56:28 <licksjp> Hello
Jan 12 15:56:30 <danijoo> fernandopaiva, theres not enough room for everthing you want to show.
Jan 12 15:56:30 <da3m0n22> found it, http://android-developers.blogspot.cz/2011/07/new-tools-for-managing-screen-sizes.html
Jan 12 15:56:32 <MikeWallaceDev> so there's your answer mate
Jan 12 15:56:48 <MikeWallaceDev> hello licksjp
Jan 12 15:57:19 <bluecup> ReScO tried compile project(‘:whateverbrary:’)?
Jan 12 15:57:27 <licksjp> I want to make Android OS reboot program
Jan 12 15:57:29 <MikeWallaceDev> ReScO, is there a reason why you are using IDEA over Android Studio?
Jan 12 15:57:32 <ReScO> bluecup: doesn't work
Jan 12 15:57:41 <licksjp> Does it can or not?
Jan 12 15:58:02 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: because PHPStorm and Android Studio can't be ran side by side
Jan 12 15:58:13 <ReScO> And IDEA does both Android and PHP
Jan 12 15:58:21 <MikeWallaceDev> gotcha.
Jan 12 15:58:21 <ReScO> and pretty much everything else
Jan 12 15:58:59 <MikeWallaceDev> Yeah, I have a IDEA license, but I only do Android stuff, so I'm sticking to AS. But before AS existed, I used IDEA too
Jan 12 15:59:07 <MikeWallaceDev> It's pretty solid
Jan 12 15:59:21 <danijoo> ReScO, you have to 1) add the project as library project (youll see the module in the left panel after that). 2) in your buikd.gradle under dependencies: compile project(':libraryprojectname') and 3) in settings.gradle include ':yourapp', ;:thelibraryprojectnameagain;
Jan 12 15:59:53 <danijoo> if you did those, it should resolve the import
Jan 12 16:00:23 <MikeWallaceDev> well, before all what danijoo said, what's this thing about mixing Gradle and non Gradle stuff?
Jan 12 16:00:33 <MikeWallaceDev> Are you using Gradle for your app?
Jan 12 16:00:38 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: yeah
Jan 12 16:00:38 <danijoo> (and btw im running PhPStorm and IDEA side by side)
Jan 12 16:00:54 <ReScO> danijoo: why? IDEA does exactly the same as PHPStorm
Jan 12 16:01:10 <MikeWallaceDev> and the library is Gradle too?
Jan 12 16:01:21 <ReScO> Nope
Jan 12 16:01:24 <ReScO> i don't think so
Jan 12 16:01:34 <ReScO> there is a .properties file in there tho
Jan 12 16:01:38 <danijoo> ReScO, because I like having my IDEs not stuffed with dozens of plugins for java if I do php and vice versa
Jan 12 16:01:41 <MikeWallaceDev> well there's yer prablum!
Jan 12 16:01:42 <MikeWallaceDev> :D
Jan 12 16:02:01 <danijoo> also i can have professional licenses for every jetbrains IDE for free as a student :p
Jan 12 16:02:06 <ReScO> but i clicked Import Module, i selected the com folder, Should i create it from existing sources or?
Jan 12 16:02:18 <MikeWallaceDev> But that library probably has a Gradle variant, go look for that ReScO
Jan 12 16:02:22 <ReScO> import from existing model?
Jan 12 16:02:38 * ReScO 's about to give up
Jan 12 16:03:32 <MikeWallaceDev> ReScO, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18449680/setting-up-the-licensing-verification-library-on-android-studio
Jan 12 16:03:58 <MikeWallaceDev> Does that help?
Jan 12 16:04:20 <danijoo> thats the ugly solution
Jan 12 16:04:26 <danijoo> but maybe the easiest one
Jan 12 16:04:45 <MikeWallaceDev> I don't man, this seems pretty complete http://developer.android.com/google/play-services/setup.html
Jan 12 16:05:02 <MikeWallaceDev> Agreed danijoo , just reaching at straws here :)
Jan 12 16:05:27 <danijoo> MikeWallaceDev, for the sake of simplicity, i would do it that way. I dont think this library updates often anyways
Jan 12 16:05:56 <MikeWallaceDev> which way?  there were two ways :D
Jan 12 16:06:04 <MikeWallaceDev> the ugly way from SO?
Jan 12 16:06:12 <danijoo> the copy paste way
Jan 12 16:06:39 <danijoo> btw its a shame that google doesnt provide gradles for those, yet..
Jan 12 16:06:56 <MikeWallaceDev> Well, either way that ReScO can get working will be the right way for him :)
Jan 12 16:07:55 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: i love you.
Jan 12 16:08:37 <MikeWallaceDev> AS long as you don't punch me in the face over the internet, we're good.
Jan 12 16:09:00 <fernandopaiva> danijoo, I solved the problem...Added a ScrollView and works :D
Jan 12 16:09:02 <fernandopaiva> thanks a lot
Jan 12 16:09:23 <ReScO> I wasn't going to punch anyone in this room :P
Jan 12 16:10:50 <MikeWallaceDev> :P
Jan 12 16:10:51 <MikeWallaceDev> :D
Jan 12 16:11:00 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: where do i put a inner class?
Jan 12 16:11:10 <ReScO> inside the extends Activity class?
Jan 12 16:11:18 <MikeWallaceDev> an inner class is a class inside a class
Jan 12 16:11:50 <MikeWallaceDev> oh, where exactly to put your class?? That's up to you man, it's your design.
Jan 12 16:13:25 <licksjp> if by Android reboot program writing,does it need to get the root?
Jan 12 16:23:15 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: how about 20 random bytes?
Jan 12 16:24:32 <MikeWallaceDev> huh?
Jan 12 16:24:57 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: the salt
Jan 12 16:25:17 <ReScO> http://developer.android.com/google/play/licensing/adding-licensing.html#impl-Obfuscator
Jan 12 16:25:25 <MikeWallaceDev> I think I missed some messages, the room went silent for 10 minutes
Jan 12 16:25:37 <ReScO> No messages here either
Jan 12 16:29:24 <shekibobo> with TableLayout, is there a way to make sure that only certain rows are allowed to shrink smaller than their containing text?
Jan 12 16:29:42 <ruler501> can you load assets on a thread that isn't the UI thread?
Jan 12 16:29:54 <shekibobo> I want all rows to expand to their text width except the last one which should be truncated with ellipsis
Jan 12 16:30:32 <MikeWallaceDev> ruler501, try it...
Jan 12 16:30:36 <shekibobo> I tried android:shrinkColumns="3" android:stretchColumns="1,2", but that doesn't work when the 3rd column is really long
Jan 12 16:30:56 <ruler501> MikeWallaceDev I'm having resource loading fail so I was guessing that was the problem
Jan 12 16:31:13 <MikeWallaceDev> ruler501, what's the error message?
Jan 12 16:31:23 <shekibobo> hmm
Jan 12 16:31:23 <shekibobo> nm
Jan 12 16:31:33 <shekibobo> 0-index... not sure where I read otherwise...
Jan 12 16:31:37 <ruler501> MikeWallaceDev no error message I can see in logcat, just that they don't load correctly
Jan 12 16:32:27 <MikeWallaceDev> define 'correctly' ?
Jan 12 16:32:32 <MikeWallaceDev> do they load at all?
Jan 12 16:32:59 <ruler501> They don't seem to, when I render the images I just get a black square
Jan 12 16:34:25 <MikeWallaceDev> Yes, you can load from a worker thread.  What you can't do is actually modify UI.
Jan 12 16:34:34 <MikeWallaceDev> so your loading is probably incorrect
Jan 12 16:34:55 <MikeWallaceDev> (it's actually recommended to load in a worker thread :) )
Jan 12 16:35:07 <ruler501> okay thanks
Jan 12 16:38:47 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: what should i enter for the salt?
Jan 12 16:38:58 <ReScO> it's saying i have to add 20 random bytes
Jan 12 16:39:43 <MikeWallaceDev> search for a random byte generator.
Jan 12 16:40:14 <ReScO> can't find one that actually gives me the bytes i need
Jan 12 16:41:28 <MikeWallaceDev> So why you expect ME to have 20 random bytes lying around?
Jan 12 16:41:38 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: after using that generator it wants to cast it to ints
Jan 12 16:42:05 <ReScO> MikeWallaceDev: what is a byte in java?
Jan 12 16:42:49 <MikeWallaceDev> You shouldn't be asking questions to a particular person, just throw them out there and somebody will (or won't) answer
Jan 12 16:43:10 <MikeWallaceDev> (i.e. I'm working now)
Jan 12 16:51:43 <xgearx> Can someone explain how matrix setScale work? Looks like it wants sX and sY should be equal otherwise it chose bigger uses this value for another dimension and apply scale
Jan 12 16:52:13 <gman23> What?
Jan 12 16:52:37 <gman23> I understood your first sentence. It looks like you just gave up midway through your second sentence.
Jan 12 16:54:07 <xgearx> if i use setScale(0.5, 1) it works like setScale(1, 1)
Jan 12 16:54:27 <xgearx> so looks like both scale values should be equal
Jan 12 16:55:02 <xgearx> i don't understand how to use different scale factors
Jan 12 16:55:02 <skrite> hey all, having some trouble with a layout http://pastie.org/9827734     i cannot seem to get id="start_button" to line up under the id="topbox"
Jan 12 16:57:15 <ReScO> Where can i find the device id?
Jan 12 16:58:10 <Jittler> I want to make a recyclerview of cardviews that have a listview of textviews that I can modify dynamically. Specifically I want to run a sql query that groups the result in cards by the value of a column. Can someone give me an idea of how to not make this 1000 views deep?
Jan 12 17:20:51 <Fraz> argh
Jan 12 17:21:08 <Fraz> why cant i browse my devices files on this pc
Jan 12 17:26:05 <g00s> huh, i remembered when google marked a bunch of bugs as obsolete, didn't know they did it for security bugs older than kitkat
Jan 12 17:31:34 <Mavrik> g00s, they did it for everything
Jan 12 17:31:35 <Mavrik> :)
Jan 12 17:32:42 <MartialLaw> The reason why android dev 100% SUCKS. Test my app... 1 hour later and no typing on the keyboard, test again. OOOOHH a method i call on a fragment is ALL OF THE SUDDEN null... lol did 100% no changes.. not even a dot, now it's null
Jan 12 17:36:09 <drinfernoo> any ideas why this is coming up null? http://pastebin.com/tq7BFEnS
Jan 12 17:36:24 <drinfernoo> code here: https://github.com/drinfernoo/Cuber/blob/master/app/src/main/java/com/blango/cuber/fragment/NewsFragment.java
Jan 12 17:37:20 <MartialLaw> drinfernoo: cuz your using Android
Jan 12 17:37:37 <MartialLaw> also that is not code just a stacktrace
Jan 12 17:38:56 <danijoo> you set feedItems = null
Jan 12 17:39:14 <danijoo> then you start a thread to get feedItems, and imediatly after that you iterate over feedItems
Jan 12 17:39:27 <danijoo> if the thread is not finished yet, feedItems are still null and you get that exception
Jan 12 17:39:40 <danijoo> at line 49
Jan 12 17:40:09 <danijoo> better use a callback
Jan 12 17:46:11 <drinfernoo> sorry disappeared for a minute lol
Jan 12 17:47:49 <drinfernoo> looks like maybe my thread isn't getting started?
Jan 12 17:50:05 <drinfernoo> I was using start() instead of run(), but I made a Thread since I was getting a NetworkOnMainThreadException, but its doing that even when the Thread Runs
Jan 12 17:54:46 <SimonVT> You use Thread#start to start a thread, not Thread#run
Jan 12 17:56:19 <dbtid> hi; i messed up my git commits, and instead of one, i have two.  (i forgot to do 'git add' for my modified files.)  so now i have two pending gits.  i would like to delete them and start over.  what can i do?
Jan 12 17:59:37 <Tricknology_> holle friends
Jan 12 17:59:41 <danijoo> dbtid, #git is the channel to go
Jan 12 18:00:28 <dbtid> danijoo: ok, thanks.  i thought since it was part of an android distro (using repo later) i should ask here.
Jan 12 18:01:41 <drinfernoo> SimonVT, if I use Thread#start, it looks like it isn't running at all (http://pastebin.com/Nra2NrFn), but if I use Thread#run, its giving me a NetworkOnMainThreadException, inside the Thread, so I know its running
Jan 12 18:01:51 <drinfernoo> (drinfernoo) code here: https://github.com/drinfernoo/Cuber/blob/master/app/src/main/java/com/blango/cuber/fragment/NewsFragment.java
Jan 12 18:03:29 <SimonVT> drinfernoo: If you use Thread#run, you're just executing the code you wanted the Thread to run, on the thread where you call Thread#run
Jan 12 18:04:12 <SimonVT> That pastebin doesn't seem to have anything to do with your Thread running or not
Jan 12 18:05:46 <Fraz> http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/help/to-access-android-devices-pc-t3000779
Jan 12 18:06:24 <danijoo> drinfernoo, you are checking for a result before being sure the thread is done
Jan 12 18:07:17 <SimonVT> Oh wow
Jan 12 18:08:42 <Fraz> danijoo, mind if i pm you?
Jan 12 18:09:14 <danijoo> dont have time atm. im just looking here shortly from time to time
Jan 12 18:09:20 <Fraz> ok
Jan 12 18:10:38 <drinfernoo> ooh danijoo, how do I do that? lol
Jan 12 18:11:55 <PsciCodeliXHAt> hello, some already set-up a continum integration server using jekins, maven, pdm and findbugs? some tuto?
Jan 12 18:11:59 <danijoo> read about asynctask or callbacks
Jan 12 18:12:28 <PsciCodeliXHAt> I mean for android projects
Jan 12 18:14:12 <drinfernoo> Thread#start isn't running my thread... I have a Log call to check and it isn't logging
Jan 12 18:14:44 <SimonVT> It starts threads for everyone else
Jan 12 18:16:16 <drinfernoo> which is why I came to ask why mine isn't working lol
Jan 12 18:16:29 <SimonVT> Because you're doing it wrong
Jan 12 18:16:35 <SimonVT> Or, you're just wrong and it actually is running
Jan 12 18:18:15 <PsciCodeliXHAt> anyone?
Jan 12 18:22:21 <DarkChaoz> so I'm trying to populate a listview with some json output but the activity keeps crashing and i dont know how to fix..
Jan 12 18:22:46 <DarkChaoz> I'm trying to build a simple app and need help fixing to fix the problem
Jan 12 18:23:00 <DarkChaoz> http://pastebin.com/VHJW34ty
Jan 12 18:24:53 <danijoo> what does the stacktreace say DarkChaoz
Jan 12 18:25:17 <thepoosh> g00s: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s4atr/what_movie_has_the_most_bullshit_science/cnm9u3f
Jan 12 18:26:18 <DarkChaoz> danijoo i posted the errors on the pastebin
Jan 12 18:26:23 <DarkChaoz> one of them is Your content must have a ListView whose id attribute is 'android.R.id.list'
Jan 12 18:26:35 <DarkChaoz> but i did setcontentview the listview
Jan 12 18:27:02 <danijoo> you cant set it twice
Jan 12 18:27:13 <danijoo> you shouldnt set it at all in a ListActivity
Jan 12 18:28:00 <DarkChaoz> well i just set it once but it still given me that error
Jan 12 18:28:09 <DarkChaoz> should i just remove both?
Jan 12 18:28:17 <danijoo> yes
Jan 12 18:30:16 <DarkChaoz> ok ok i'll try it out
Jan 12 18:31:26 <ChrisUK> if you do not specify a theme or style what determines the default style?
Jan 12 18:31:50 <danijoo> i guess the sdk version
Jan 12 18:31:59 <danijoo> ehh. andorid version
Jan 12 18:32:42 <ChrisUK> should you always specify the theme in the manifest?
Jan 12 18:33:00 <danijoo> lollipop: material. 4.x holo, 2.x the ugly thing
Jan 12 18:33:59 <SimonVT> Target sdk decides
Jan 12 18:34:48 <DarkChaoz> ok with the removal of the listview would the activity generates the listview from jsonoutput without the xml layout for listview?
Jan 12 18:39:10 <thepoosh> TacticalJoke: ?
Jan 12 18:39:57 <ChrisUK> ok thanks alot
Jan 12 18:40:40 <ac_slater_> holy shit. Android studio is terrible
Jan 12 18:40:52 <ac_slater_> why was this considered 'release-ready'
Jan 12 18:41:36 <ac_slater_> half of the time, android studio wont upload my apk. I can do it manually but the whole workflow is interrupted. Anyone experience this?
Jan 12 18:42:00 <danijoo> I cant wait for that generation of android devs that never used AS in beta
Jan 12 18:42:08 <danijoo> maybe then the complaining stops
Jan 12 18:42:24 <TacticalJoke> thepoosh: ?
Jan 12 18:42:39 <thepoosh> I'm discovering Dara O'Brian
Jan 12 18:42:52 <thepoosh> he's hilarious
Jan 12 18:43:07 <ReScO> Where can i find the device id?
Jan 12 18:43:28 <ac_slater_> danijoo: yea, I wouldnt have upgraded if they kept the links to adt on the site.
Jan 12 18:43:36 <ac_slater_> sure I can find them manually
Jan 12 18:44:45 <ReScO> Or rather, what is the best method of getting the deviceid?
Jan 12 18:45:20 <s73v3r> danijoo: If it’s bad, then the complaining shouldn’t stop until it’s fixed
Jan 12 18:45:35 <s73v3r> just because someone else had it worse before doesn’t mean that we should be content with subpar tools
Jan 12 18:47:27 <TacticalJoke> He's pretty funny.
Jan 12 18:47:47 <danijoo> ReScO, from code?
Jan 12 18:48:20 <thepoosh> TacticalJoke: I was reading "what is the worst bulshit science movie ever" on reddit
Jan 12 18:48:27 <thepoosh> and found this: http://youtu.be/TaQlQjLDsvI?t=1h10m20s
Jan 12 18:48:28 <DarkChaoz> urghh https doesnt load on android 2.3.3 versions do they?
Jan 12 18:48:53 <ReScO> danijoo: yeah
Jan 12 18:48:55 <DarkChaoz> fetching https urls to retrieve json
Jan 12 18:49:05 <danijoo> ReScO, http://bit.ly/1C95R7u
Jan 12 18:49:46 <ReScO> danijoo: and you think i haven't done that already?
Jan 12 18:50:38 <DarkChaoz> calm down he is only trying to help lol
Jan 12 18:51:08 <danijoo> ReScO, seems like you havent. because the first link gives an answer
Jan 12 18:51:24 <jgorak> i learned how to just now from that link >.>
Jan 12 18:58:33 <TacticalJoke> I'll look in a bit. On my phone right now. :)
Jan 12 18:59:49 <theblang> ac_slater no.  been using since about March of last year and haven't had much difficulty with it
Jan 12 19:00:57 <danijoo> you should use the EAP
Jan 12 19:00:57 <christo_m> hello, anyone here have experience with this lib on cordova: https://github.com/MobileChromeApps/mobile-chrome-apps/blob/master/chrome-cordova/plugins/chrome.sockets.tcpServer/src/android/ChromeSocketsTcpServer.java
Jan 12 19:01:11 <christo_m> its unable to compile because of https://github.com/MobileChromeApps/mobile-chrome-apps/blob/master/chrome-cordova/plugins/chrome.sockets.tcpServer/src/android/ChromeSocketsTcpServer.java#L497
Jan 12 19:01:39 <christo_m> when i switch it to webView.pluginManager.getPlugin( ... etc , it compiles but then acceptContext is null leading to null pointer issues
Jan 12 19:02:12 <fALSO> Hi!
Jan 12 19:02:29 <gdrc> Ronaldo wins
Jan 12 19:02:39 <fALSO> A little help, dont know what keywords to search googl with :-)
Jan 12 19:03:09 <fALSO> Im using a Navigation drawer and adding items correctly
Jan 12 19:03:48 <fALSO> But when i do a addHeaderView on the drawer the "items" position seems to be shifted by one
Jan 12 19:04:10 <fALSO> the first item in the menu now is ID 1 instead of 0 - 0 seems to be the HeaderView...
Jan 12 19:04:13 <christo_m> welp gg, question lost in the abyss
Jan 12 19:04:43 <christo_m> will show up in a log a month from now when someone googles the same issue. resounding echos of desperation
Jan 12 19:04:51 <christo_m> just like this stackoverflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27085944/cordova-with-chrome-tcpserver-plugin-wont-compile-getpluginmanager which is the same issue
Jan 12 19:05:08 <christo_m> the best part is it compiles on iOS just fine but google can't manage to make their own libs compile on their own platform
Jan 12 19:12:29 <pfn> no one particularly cares about cordova here
Jan 12 19:12:36 <pfn> better off asking #cordova or #phonegap, whichever exists
Jan 12 19:13:46 <christo_m> pfn: its dead in both
Jan 12 19:13:55 <pfn> you'll get no answer here
Jan 12 19:13:59 <pfn> no one cares about cordova here
Jan 12 19:14:13 <gdrc> correct
Jan 12 19:14:22 <omegavesko> #phonegap is the official phonegap channel
Jan 12 19:14:30 <christo_m> yup, i know
Jan 12 19:16:15 <theblang> has anyone noticed a blink or flicker effect sometimes when transitioning to a new Activity?
Jan 12 19:17:16 <gdrc> nope
Jan 12 19:18:01 <theblang> man, its driving me nuts.  I never ever saw it until updating to Lollipop libs
Jan 12 19:18:23 <theblang> but noone else seems to be experiencing it, lol.  makes me wonder wth I did
Jan 12 19:18:35 <g00s> thepoosh they used social engineering to screw up that german steel mill the other week
Jan 12 19:18:41 <omegavesko> theblang:  haven't noticed anything like that myself
Jan 12 19:18:51 <omegavesko> can you replicate it on multiple devices?
Jan 12 19:19:19 <theblang> omegavesko yeah, several devices, KitKat, Lollipop, emulator
Jan 12 19:19:26 <theblang> omegavesko: here is a video of it happening https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_videoeditor&v=yiIEFOpkS0M#t=19
Jan 12 19:19:33 <theblang> omegavesko: first five seconds it happens twice
Jan 12 19:20:13 <danijoo> damn im blinking to often.
Jan 12 19:20:21 <theblang> omegavesko: my only guess right now is that I set window something something style to @null to disable transition.  not sure if something changed in the Lollipop support libs or something
Jan 12 19:20:35 <theblang> danijoo: are you getting it too?
Jan 12 19:20:41 <thepoosh> g00s: who are you talking about?
Jan 12 19:20:49 <danijoo> cant even see it in the vid ^^
Jan 12 19:20:50 <cnap> Guys any reason why this simple GPS function: https://bpaste.net/show/ca64f050de23 won't work?
Jan 12 19:20:53 <pfn> navigating too quickly
Jan 12 19:20:59 <pfn> you don't give anyone time to see wtf is happening
Jan 12 19:21:06 <cnap> it always returns loc == null
Jan 12 19:21:25 <theblang> pfn that is because it is random, I had to go fast to make it happen.  it does it twice between 19 and 25 seconds
Jan 12 19:21:37 <g00s> thepoosh did you send me http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s4atr/what_movie_has_the_most_bullshit_science/cnm9u3f
Jan 12 19:21:43 <omegavesko> theblang: Ah, took me a while to notice, I see what you mean
Jan 12 19:21:49 <g00s> that comment is about social engineering ?
Jan 12 19:22:29 <pfn> theblang, then edit it and show only the relevant part
Jan 12 19:22:32 <thepoosh> oh yeah
Jan 12 19:22:45 <theblang> omegavesko, g00s yeah, sorry for the navigating speed.  but it just happens randomly so I had to go fast.  it happens twice in that 5 seconds period though, between 19 and 25.
Jan 12 19:22:54 <thepoosh> yes
Jan 12 19:23:03 <thepoosh> hacking explained
Jan 12 19:23:05 <thepoosh> :P
Jan 12 19:23:08 <theblang> pfn the link I gave starts it at 19 when it happens twice.
Jan 12 19:23:32 <pfn> anyway, if it's random, it's probably something else at play
Jan 12 19:23:36 <pfn> not a theming issue
Jan 12 19:23:52 <pfn> probably a race condition or something in the way you restore state or show activities
Jan 12 19:24:18 <g00s> theblang do you set the theme on the application, or per activity ?
Jan 12 19:24:51 <theblang> g00s application
Jan 12 19:25:29 <theblang> pfn yeah, I dunno.  I know that I never ever saw this until recently, after an update to Lollipop support libs.  But noone else seems to be encountering this, so I feel it must be something I changed.  I have a SO question with 100 views, but no solutions
Jan 12 19:25:55 <pfn> well, no code in question, and your navigation in video is too fast to determine what is happening
Jan 12 19:26:01 <pfn> race condition in your code, is the #1 guess
Jan 12 19:27:02 <g00s> theblang for shiggles, try this in your theme <item name="android:windowDisablePreview">true</item>
Jan 12 19:27:19 <omegavesko> If you're using version control I'd just go back and see which commit it started appearing at
Jan 12 19:27:37 <g00s> lol, android moves without your code :)
Jan 12 19:29:24 <DelphiWorld> hi droidsters
Jan 12 19:29:42 <DelphiWorld> may someone build my app for me please?
Jan 12 19:29:49 <theblang> pfn, g00s I should also mention that I made two blank Activities with just a button to navigate between, and it occurs with them too.  I also have a screen capture of that.
Jan 12 19:30:03 <danijoo> DelphiWorld, how much do you pay?
Jan 12 19:30:05 <gman23> I have a RecyclerView that I want to show things in. I get my list of data I want to show and it is ordered by a status. I'd like to show a header for each status in the recyclerview like "GOOD" with a list of all the good items below it, followed by "DECENT" with a list of all the decent items below that, etc. How does one do that?
Jan 12 19:30:11 <theblang> pfn, g00s that is what made me think a change in how setting @null for a window style is handled
Jan 12 19:30:42 <theblang> pfn, g00s windowAnimationStyle to be exact.  just a guess tho
Jan 12 19:32:15 <jonp> crazy/silly question: wrt the NDK, has anyone ever seen "advice" that ino_t to be avoided like the plague, because it's BROKEN? https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=79994
Jan 12 19:32:23 <theblang> pfn oh, I remember why I didn't splice it now too.  splicing sometimes made the effect go away, interestingly enough.  just did a splice with YouTube video editor
Jan 12 19:36:32 <theblang> g00s dang, was pretty hopeful about windowDiasblePreview.  only because I could imagine the behavior for handling that changing somewhat across a major version.  still does it though.  it actually does it more frequently in the emulator
Jan 12 19:38:55 <g00s> for science, i slept ontop one of those space blankets - holy crap, i almost got cooked in my sleep
Jan 12 19:41:59 <groxx> jonp: that sounds like a lot of fun D:  yikes
Jan 12 19:48:56 <theblang> with Retrofit + OkHttp, is there a way I could do a re-authenticate if the token is expired without modifying the logic of each call
Jan 12 19:51:27 <futini> hello to everyone, i need import a gradle dependency in my project hosted in github, is hard?
Jan 12 19:54:02 <danijoo> no
Jan 12 19:56:15 <CrossRiverGames> Hello all
Jan 12 19:57:41 <CrossRiverGames> I have a question about the Lollipop SDK…is the Android emulator any good?  I know that the older emulator (I think KitKat) was so terrible it wasn’t worth using, and it would be really nice if they had made it usable with Lollipop
Jan 12 19:58:39 <yiati> Nope
Jan 12 19:59:07 <danijoo> CrossRiverGames, use genymotin
Jan 12 19:59:14 <danijoo> genymotion*
Jan 12 19:59:48 <TacticalJoke> Or HAXM, if you have an Intel processor.
Jan 12 19:59:55 <yiati> the only thing new google has announced emulator wise recently is some 64 bit support for x86 intel processors
Jan 12 20:00:03 <yiati> http://www.androidcentral.com/google-releases-64-bit-android-l-emulator-intel-processors
Jan 12 20:00:29 <CrossRiverGames> Thanks!
Jan 12 20:00:31 <gdrc> g00s: http://notepad-plus-plus.org/
Jan 12 20:01:30 <TacticalJoke> Cross: The emulator by default is, at least in my experience, unusable.
Jan 12 20:01:40 <g00s> gdrc wut
Jan 12 20:02:27 <g00s> gdrc why did you send me there O.o ?
Jan 12 20:02:56 <f2prateek_> theblang: you'd do it with a custom okhttp client
Jan 12 20:03:02 <gdrc> show you deface
Jan 12 20:03:28 <g00s> yeah, if the site is compromised i probably don't want to visit it either
Jan 12 20:03:48 <g00s> especially on some crapp android 4.3 device XD
Jan 12 20:03:49 <thepoosh> in any case, Sublime is better
Jan 12 20:04:13 <danijoo> this ^
Jan 12 20:04:19 <g00s> thepoosh i do wonder though, if ST has lost steam
Jan 12 20:04:25 <thepoosh> ?
Jan 12 20:04:30 <thepoosh> i find it awesome
Jan 12 20:04:42 <g00s> i mean development momentum
Jan 12 20:04:54 <thepoosh> oh, could be
Jan 12 20:05:05 <danijoo> g00s, ST3 is currently in beta
Jan 12 20:05:06 <thepoosh> but it's very good as-is
Jan 12 20:05:12 <thepoosh> what are you missing?
Jan 12 20:05:24 <g00s> danijoo its been in beta for how long, at least a year ?
Jan 12 20:05:31 <danijoo> true
Jan 12 20:05:33 <thepoosh> yeah
Jan 12 20:05:47 <danijoo> same for AS :p
Jan 12 20:05:59 <g00s> all google's software is always in beta ;0
Jan 12 20:06:15 <theblang> g00s was just thinking that.  noticed Nav is still in beta, lol
Jan 12 20:06:33 <theblang> beta is the new production, didn't you know
Jan 12 20:07:19 <danijoo> 10 years ago, nobody dared to realease stuff like today is released
Jan 12 20:07:24 <danijoo> alphas, early accesses..
Jan 12 20:07:34 <theblang> danijoo haha, I know right
Jan 12 20:07:34 <omegavesko> Google's stuff is in beta even when it's stable
Jan 12 20:09:15 <danijoo> omegavesko, cleary isnt an AS user ^
Jan 12 20:09:20 <omegavesko> danijoo:
Jan 12 20:09:23 <omegavesko> yes I am :P
Jan 12 20:15:37 <alexfu> can build variants have different source sets?
Jan 12 20:16:31 <danijoo> alexfu, you could put them into different modules
Jan 12 20:16:37 <danijoo> the sources
Jan 12 20:19:06 <e-motion> hi
Jan 12 20:19:29 <e-motion> how do I extract CSC from samsung tar.md5 and flash it separately?
Jan 12 20:19:46 <e-motion> or flash only CSC without extracting?
Jan 12 20:19:57 <SimonVT> e-motion: That doesn't sound like an app dev question, try #android or #android-root
Jan 12 20:20:05 <e-motion> ok
Jan 12 20:32:27 <me_> hello, which languages are used for progrmaming android apps?
Jan 12 20:33:26 <fALSO> java
Jan 12 20:33:34 <me_> are there any other?
Jan 12 20:33:37 <regan> or C#, or JavaScript
Jan 12 20:33:45 <fALSO> yes there are others
Jan 12 20:33:54 <me_> c# and jS?
Jan 12 20:34:00 <danijoo> scala
Jan 12 20:34:07 <g00s> me_ you have a choice between java, java, and java mostly
Jan 12 20:34:08 <danijoo> ruby
Jan 12 20:34:15 <njcomsec> C
Jan 12 20:34:16 <regan> phonegap… is JS
Jan 12 20:34:37 <danijoo> bot all of those can be a pain (not tht java cant.. )
Jan 12 20:34:41 * regan has had problems setting up the NDK, C/C++ would be best for me
Jan 12 20:34:43 <g00s> you program in C using NDK to get closer to linux, to get closer to android use a jvm language
Jan 12 20:35:03 <omegavesko> well, for native app Java and JVM languages like Scala
Jan 12 20:35:12 <omegavesko> also NDK apps so C/C++
Jan 12 20:35:19 <omegavesko> web apps is HTML/CSS/JS
Jan 12 20:35:50 <regan> There is also something called touch develop which is like logo and you code directly on the phone
Jan 12 20:35:51 <omegavesko> and Xamarin apps which use C#
Jan 12 20:35:56 <omegavesko> I think that's about it.
Jan 12 20:36:06 * regan smacks Xamarin
Jan 12 20:36:11 <me_> so best choice is still java and jvm languages?
Jan 12 20:36:46 <regan> go to stack overflow and look at the number of answers to Java questions and then the rest
Jan 12 20:36:56 <regan> … for android
Jan 12 20:37:06 <TacticalJoke> Java is the official language.
Jan 12 20:37:23 <me_> thx
Jan 12 20:37:33 <omegavesko> yes, if you're new to Android dev it's best to go Java
Jan 12 20:37:39 <regan> “Java is the worst thing to happen to computing since MS-DOS” — Alan MacKay…. But I still use it when needed to..
Jan 12 20:37:50 <omegavesko> *maybe* C# if you have many years of .NET experience
Jan 12 20:38:06 <TacticalJoke> Java isn't that bad, IMO.
Jan 12 20:38:14 * regan smacks Xamarin
Jan 12 20:38:18 <me_> i dont hava many years of .NET experience
Jan 12 20:38:25 <omegavesko> yeah, it's fun to hate on Java but it's one of my favorite languages tbh
Jan 12 20:38:27 <me_> i would like to program a webapp
Jan 12 20:38:42 <regan> phonegap or rubbish like that
Jan 12 20:38:50 <omegavesko> me_: Okay, you'd use Phonegap for that
Jan 12 20:38:51 <regan> there are a few
Jan 12 20:38:59 <omegavesko> why a webapp though?
Jan 12 20:38:59 <TacticalJoke> Why a web app?
Jan 12 20:39:03 <omegavesko> heh
Jan 12 20:39:15 <pfn> java sucks
Jan 12 20:39:17 <TacticalJoke> A web app is always gonna be inferior to a native Android app.
Jan 12 20:39:43 <me_> ok
Jan 12 20:39:48 <regan> java sucks but I need the bucks (tm)
Jan 12 20:39:56 <me_> :)
Jan 12 20:40:06 <TacticalJoke> Java is nowhere near as bad as people tend to say.
Jan 12 20:40:07 <omegavesko> Yeah, pretty much the only 'good' usecase for webapps is developing a crossplatform app in a really short timeframe
Jan 12 20:40:13 <omegavesko> TacticalJoke: this
Jan 12 20:40:50 <me_> omegavesko: for other apps, it would be better, if i go with java?
Jan 12 20:40:54 <regan> even visual studio 2014 or 2015 or whatever can target android these days
Jan 12 20:41:23 <regan> there is more tutorials on the web for java on android than anything else
Jan 12 20:41:24 <omegavesko> me_: If you're only developing for Android (i.e. you don't need it to run on iOS as well), then yes
Jan 12 20:41:32 <omegavesko> regan: It can?
Jan 12 20:42:02 <me_> omegavesko: and if i  need it to run on iOS?
Jan 12 20:42:10 <regan> yeah, I just about fell off my chair when I read the emulator is faster than the ADT or Eclipse one too
Jan 12 20:42:26 <pfn> TacticalJoke, that's what people who don't know anything but java say  :p
Jan 12 20:42:28 <omegavesko> me_: Well then you have a choice between webapps and Xamarin, the latter needs a paid license though
Jan 12 20:42:32 * regan likes objective-c on iOS… but iz weird like that
Jan 12 20:43:33 <TacticalJoke> Java is just the latest language I've learned.
Jan 12 20:43:36 <groxx> at least objective-c has simple existing-object-extension support, with categories.
Jan 12 20:43:47 <groxx> I'd kill to have that in Java.
Jan 12 20:43:48 <regan> aspect-j
Jan 12 20:43:50 <DarkChaoz> does anyone know if there is any https json parser out there?
Jan 12 20:43:58 <DarkChaoz> cant seem to find one
Jan 12 20:44:03 <TacticalJoke> When I first moved to Java I hated it, but I have to admit that it's not as terrible as everyone seems to say.
Jan 12 20:44:08 <gdrc> https json?
Jan 12 20:44:14 <groxx> yeah, aspect-j is a little too fancy for me at the moment, plus I'd never convince my coworkers to use it :)
Jan 12 20:44:49 <DarkChaoz> yeah because there is a website api im using and it uses https
Jan 12 20:45:06 <groxx> java is excessively strict, but within that realm it's decent.  it's just that sometimes you _really_ want to shoot yourself in the foot, because it's less painful than the "correct" way, and in Java you very nearly can't.
Jan 12 20:45:23 <TacticalJoke> Dark: I'm using OkHttp with Gson, but you could also use Retrofit, I think.
Jan 12 20:45:42 <groxx> "https" json parser?
Jan 12 20:47:21 <TacticalJoke> I'm guessing he's wanting HTTPS support and JSON support.
Jan 12 20:47:39 <gdrc> retrofit is ok
Jan 12 20:48:30 <DarkChaoz> yeah
Jan 12 20:49:09 <JakeWharton> gdrc: you're ok
Jan 12 20:52:06 <gdrc> I know ;)
Jan 12 20:57:18 <g00s> i think instead of Q4, google should put out new versions in Q1, so that by Q4 people can buy (more) of them :)
Jan 12 20:58:15 <g00s> unless all along, they have been releasing in Q4 so you can but in the next Q4 :)
Jan 12 20:59:14 <tricknology_> what would be a good way to implement an expandable listview where one of the elements might not have any children.. but it still needs to have function when clicked
Jan 12 20:59:48 <tricknology_> Right now I have a group with no children.. but when I click nothing happens (obviously)
Jan 12 21:00:53 <tricknology_> ah.. OnGroupClickListener();
Jan 12 21:02:11 <HevvyMetal> happy monday every one
Jan 12 21:02:40 <bankai_au> bit late ...
Jan 12 21:04:05 <DarkChaoz> damn u google y u no gimme a decent answer :S
Jan 12 21:05:15 <tricknology_> Happy Monday
Jan 12 21:05:24 <tricknology_> whats the problem CarkChaoz?
Jan 12 21:05:27 <tricknology_> DarkChaoz
Jan 12 21:05:42 <gdrc> g00s: got moto g?
Jan 12 21:05:55 <g00s> gdrc nope, not yet
Jan 12 21:06:14 <g00s> thought i would wait to see if moto did anything in CES
Jan 12 21:06:15 <DarkChaoz> trying to find a json parser that i can use with https requests
Jan 12 21:06:26 <TacticalJoke> Gson.
Jan 12 21:06:32 <DarkChaoz> sure i got a working http one..
Jan 12 21:07:32 <MikeWallaceDev> Hey JakeWharton I watched your video on Dagger2, can you point me to a good document that illustrates when it's best to use Injection?
Jan 12 21:08:58 <yiati> I have a feeling the answer will be always
Jan 12 21:09:16 <HevvyMetal> ;)
Jan 12 21:09:25 <MikeWallaceDev> Always is NEVER the answer in computer science....
Jan 12 21:09:32 <HevvyMetal> it is to some people
Jan 12 21:09:44 <tricknology_> ALWAYS is a good question to ask though
Jan 12 21:09:59 <HevvyMetal> personally find daggers to be highly recommended when being chased by spiders just outside the shire
Jan 12 21:10:06 <MikeWallaceDev> The answer is usually "it depends" :)
Jan 12 21:10:11 <HevvyMetal> in fact it's my weapon of choice
Jan 12 21:10:20 <DarkChaoz> tacticaljoke does it support min api lvl 9?
Jan 12 21:10:22 <yiati> When should boolean logic be part of a programming language?
Jan 12 21:10:29 <HevvyMetal> yiati: never
Jan 12 21:10:40 <yiati> lol
Jan 12 21:10:52 <groxx> yeah.  ternary all the way.
Jan 12 21:11:02 <MikeWallaceDev> yiati, it depends, not when you are doing quantum computing.
Jan 12 21:11:06 <groxx> true/false/yolo
Jan 12 21:11:09 <HevvyMetal> i'm been spiffing up on my non deterministic quantum state logic
Jan 12 21:11:11 <TacticalJoke> Dark: Yes.
Jan 12 21:11:15 <bellingcat> Hey all - very much an Android beginner here. I want to create an AlarmManager to check the value of a sensor every 30 minutes - so this is what I did and tried to put a 'log' in the onStartCommand of the Service I call, unfortunately the log function is never called and I am clueless. Any ideas? http://pastebin.com/9AZqsnNw
Jan 12 21:11:22 <TacticalJoke> I think so.
Jan 12 21:14:16 <groxx> bellingcat: is the service declared in your manifest?
Jan 12 21:14:32 <yiati> Saying always is never the answer though is kind of ironic
Jan 12 21:15:31 <MikeWallaceDev> hey, I never said said that NEVER is never the answer...
Jan 12 21:16:04 <yiati> but you did imply that always is always never the answer
Jan 12 21:16:15 <ReScO> How long does it generally take for a app to show up in the appstore?
Jan 12 21:16:28 <tricknology_> 2-3 hours
Jan 12 21:16:32 <groxx> MikeWallaceDev: I haven't personally looked through this, but maybe it'll help with dagger use? https://github.com/JakeWharton/u2020
Jan 12 21:16:36 <MikeWallaceDev> a few hours, there's no way of really knowing
Jan 12 21:16:37 <tricknology_> sometimes sooner
Jan 12 21:16:42 <omegavesko> ReScO: A couple of hours at most
Jan 12 21:16:43 <tricknology_> sometimes later
Jan 12 21:16:56 <ReScO> Okay, thanks :)
Jan 12 21:18:01 <MikeWallaceDev> groxx, it's not really a Dagger question, it's more of a generic when is it best to use Injection?
Jan 12 21:18:08 <MikeWallaceDev> What's the tipping point?
Jan 12 21:18:12 <TacticalJoke> DarkChaoz: Are you using OkHttp?
Jan 12 21:18:48 <g00s> MikeWallaceDev its an interesting question, because DI isn't new at all and was quite the rage back in 2008-ish when Spring was popular
Jan 12 21:19:26 <bellingcat> groxx: truth be told, I have no idea..
Jan 12 21:19:35 <bellingcat> (so I guess not)
Jan 12 21:20:08 <MikeWallaceDev> g00s, I never played with Spring, I'm a C++ guy and only use Java because i have no choice...
Jan 12 21:20:11 <groxx> MikeWallaceDev: tipping point is probably "when you first need to inject something", which _tends_ to be early, in part because you often need to to make testing less painful
Jan 12 21:20:22 <MikeWallaceDev> And no, I don't want to use the NDK (inb4)
Jan 12 21:20:40 <g00s> i dont know how the newer DI containers deal with not knowing what exactly to inject until runtime
Jan 12 21:20:59 <s73v3r> I believe Dagger finds that out at Compile time
Jan 12 21:21:00 <g00s> in other words, not knowing at compile time
Jan 12 21:21:01 <groxx> bellingcat: you need a <service android:name=".package.ClassName" /> line in your AndroidManifest.xml file.  https://developer.android.com/guide/components/services.html
Jan 12 21:21:27 <MikeWallaceDev> yeah, it's all compile time.  It was one of their goals. Catch problems before runtime
Jan 12 21:21:44 <DarkChaoz> nah
Jan 12 21:21:56 <gman23> I need an Android expert
Jan 12 21:22:08 <bellingcat> groxx: for me: <service android:name=".SensorLogService"></service>, correct?
Jan 12 21:22:12 <s73v3r> I dont’ think you’ll find one here
Jan 12 21:22:36 <MikeWallaceDev> gman23, you should check-out #ios
Jan 12 21:22:58 <gman23> You think I'm joking
Jan 12 21:22:59 <bellingcat> :-D
Jan 12 21:23:43 <gman23> but who here knows how RecyclerViews work inside and out? I want to separate data inside my RecyclerAdapter by headers
Jan 12 21:24:08 <gman23> With Google enforcing that ViewHolder pattern and what not, I'm not sure how to go about doing this
Jan 12 21:24:17 <MikeWallaceDev> I think there's a lib for that
Jan 12 21:24:25 <gman23> Sticky Headers or w/e yeah
Jan 12 21:24:42 <groxx> bellingcat: probably.  a leading "." expands to "com.your.app.package", so that should work if SensorLogService is in the "top level" of your source.
Jan 12 21:24:49 <MikeWallaceDev> what's his name.. that Italian guy, I think he made a lib for headers
Jan 12 21:25:57 <MikeWallaceDev> Gabriele Mariotti
Jan 12 21:27:24 <MikeWallaceDev> oh, no, gman23 check out "Lucas Rocha's TwoWayView"
Jan 12 21:27:41 <MikeWallaceDev> might not be a solution, but at least a head start
Jan 12 21:28:58 <bellingcat> groxx: thanks!
Jan 12 21:30:59 <groxx> bellingcat: np, good luck :)  just watch out that your process may be _started_ by that alarm, so you probably need to start up the sensor in the receiver if it's not running.
Jan 12 21:31:38 <gman23> thanks MikeWallaceDev
Jan 12 21:31:56 <gman23> I've glanced over that project, but I guess I'll take a look again
Jan 12 21:32:08 <gman23> But hence why I ask for an expert!
Jan 12 21:33:09 <ruler501> Why might I get a SIGSEGV from running the destructor on a gpg::GameServices unique pointer(it is automatically run at the exit of my app so there is no real code to show)?
Jan 12 21:33:42 <MikeWallaceDev> we're all experts :D  Doesn't mean I want to write your code :P
Jan 12 21:33:56 <ruler501> http://pastebin.com/iq4Lywjj is the backtrace
Jan 12 21:34:36 <bellingcat> groxx: meh, I am getting a 'SensorManager﹕ sensor or listener is null'. I am running the SensorSimulator application on my PC though (I am simulating my application, is that even possible with sensor input?)
Jan 12 21:35:25 <TacticalJoke> You backtraced it. ;o
Jan 12 21:35:26 <tricknology_> how do I get the arrow from an ExpandableListView as an ImaveView?
Jan 12 21:35:37 <MikeWallaceDev> Hey, do you know how to set Android Studio so that the Android tab doesn't always open?  I want it to open only when I click on the button
Jan 12 21:35:48 <groxx> bellingcat: depends on the sensor :) usually I think the "standard" ones have a fake output
Jan 12 21:36:30 <groxx> never tried "sensor simulator" though, so dunno what it does then
Jan 12 21:38:12 <g00s> jigsaw will be interesting when it comes out, been delayed a lot http://www.codergears.com/Blog/?p=310
Jan 12 21:38:43 <MikeWallaceDev> What's jigsaw? (Besides the clown in Raw)
Jan 12 21:39:24 <TacticalJoke> Saw. :)
Jan 12 21:39:46 <MikeWallaceDev> HAHAHA  I was like "hmmm, that doesn't look right..."
Jan 12 21:41:26 <g00s> looks like its finally going to get into java 9 http://mreinhold.org/blog/jigsaw-modular-images
Jan 12 21:43:11 <Chainfire> so I have a view inside a fragment (setRetainInstance) that doesn't get restored properly on rotate... everything else gets restored, just not this View... any ideas?
Jan 12 21:43:27 <skrite> If you use Relative Layout, you can still nest views, right?
Jan 12 21:43:52 <groxx> Chainfire: make sure it has an ID and is unique?
Jan 12 21:44:03 <MikeWallaceDev> Chainfire, is it visible?  someone had a problem recently with invisible views not being saved correctly
Jan 12 21:44:12 <Chainfire> groxx yes
Jan 12 21:44:26 <Chainfire> MikeWallaceDev at the time of rotate, yes, but it does start invisible
Jan 12 21:44:31 <Chainfire> "gone", even
Jan 12 21:44:42 <MikeWallaceDev> that could be it...
Jan 12 21:45:02 <Chainfire> remember where/what/how details?
Jan 12 21:45:36 <MikeWallaceDev> not much, but it's like the System just recreates the view and doesn't remember the actual visibility
Jan 12 21:45:45 <MikeWallaceDev> just do it yourself...
Jan 12 21:46:13 <Chainfire> right
Jan 12 21:47:29 <Chainfire> well I had thought to reset its properties, but I can't find the proper place. onAttach is too soon, onActivityCreated and onStart don't get called (wtf)
Jan 12 21:48:18 <MikeWallaceDev> OnResume?
Jan 12 21:48:29 <Chainfire> also not called
Jan 12 21:49:23 <s73v3r> is there an efficient way to count how many items of a List have a member set a certain way? Currently I’m just for-looping over the list and counting.
Jan 12 21:49:32 <MikeWallaceDev> oh, there's onConfigurationChange or something like htat
Jan 12 21:50:05 <bluecup> s73v3r basically any method that does that will loop over the list
Jan 12 21:50:13 <MikeWallaceDev> s73v3r, AFAIAC that's how to do it
Jan 12 21:51:06 <skrite> hey all
Jan 12 21:52:01 <pfn> Chainfire, onCreateView should be called...
Jan 12 21:52:59 <Chainfire> yeah I just figured the debugger was busted
Jan 12 21:53:02 <Chainfire> restart device and adb
Jan 12 21:54:19 <skrite> i am having trouble getting layout_weight to work. http://pastie.org/9828351 my screen is showing nothing
Jan 12 21:55:34 <MikeWallaceDev> skrite, why a relativelayout inside a relative layout?
Jan 12 21:56:00 <MikeWallaceDev> whoa.  Ok, I don't think you understand how weights work :)
Jan 12 21:56:10 <MikeWallaceDev> Read up a bit more buddy :)
Jan 12 21:56:30 <Fraz> anyone around at the mo that can help me with my usb problems?
Jan 12 21:56:38 <MikeWallaceDev> A RelativeLayout does not have an orientation
Jan 12 21:56:56 <skrite> MikeWallaceDev: i am very new at this. I thought weights basically work by dividing up the screen real estate by the total number of weight points, right?
Jan 12 21:56:58 <MikeWallaceDev> Fraz, just ask the question, if someone can answer, they will...
Jan 12 21:57:15 <TacticalJoke> Fraz: Nobody knows until you ask.
Jan 12 21:57:17 <MikeWallaceDev> yes, but between the children, not the parent
Jan 12 21:57:20 <skrite> so if weight = 1   and another weight = 2   one view is 2/3 of the screen
Jan 12 21:57:41 <skrite> MikeWallaceDev: ah, geez.. yeah, boy, did i have that one wrong.
Jan 12 21:57:49 <MikeWallaceDev> oh shit, sorry man!  Wait, I was wrong there
Jan 12 21:57:52 <skrite> MikeWallaceDev: thanks
Jan 12 21:58:14 <MikeWallaceDev> skrite, I thought the there was only one RelativeLayout child... sorry.
Jan 12 21:58:17 <Fraz> Well i have 2 windows 8.1 pcs here, on one i can browse files and use adb, on the other i cant. I've tried 5 different devices, all usb ports etc. I have the right usb driver is its the same as the driver used on the pc that works....
Jan 12 21:58:19 <MikeWallaceDev> I scrolled to fast
Jan 12 21:58:47 <skrite> MikeWallaceDev: oh, ok. ha ha.. so am i kinda on the right track? I know i must be missing something small.
Jan 12 21:58:52 <Fraz> on this pc, i dont even get an authorization prompt on the device, but i do on the other pc
Jan 12 21:59:07 <MikeWallaceDev> skrite, yeah, you're on the right track, sorry, my bad.
Jan 12 21:59:31 <MikeWallaceDev> although, your layout is also way too complicated
Jan 12 21:59:32 <groxx> skrite: fwiw part of the problem is that RelativeLayout doesn't look at weights.  afaik that's just linearlayout.
Jan 12 21:59:44 <Fraz> ive also tried with linux on this pc with the same problem, so im swaying towards a hardware proplem/setting being the cause
Jan 12 21:59:45 <skrite> ah, ok
Jan 12 21:59:51 <gman23> MikeWallaceDev: God no, I don't want you writing it either! :P
Jan 12 22:00:03 <MikeWallaceDev> :D
Jan 12 22:00:09 <gman23> I just want to know like...should I use a RecyclerView LayoutManager
Jan 12 22:00:21 <gman23> concepts, not code.
Jan 12 22:00:39 <MikeWallaceDev> gman23, yeah, that's the solution.  One has to be written, but has someone already written one? Probably.
Jan 12 22:00:50 <skrite> groxx: would using nested LinearLayouts work better than trying to position everything with RelativeLayouts?
Jan 12 22:00:52 <Fraz> so any ideas as to what the problem might be?
Jan 12 22:01:18 <MikeWallaceDev> skrite, you want to have as little nesting as possible.
Jan 12 22:01:40 <skrite> MikeWallaceDev: so that puts me back with RelativeLayout, i think.
Jan 12 22:02:04 <tricknology_> anyonne know how to get the groupindicator of an ExpandableListView?
Jan 12 22:02:15 <nemik> Fraz: have you tried a different cable or restarting the device?
Jan 12 22:02:16 <groxx> skrite: probably closer to what you're after.  by the look of it, your inner-linearlayouts could be overlapping each other (e.g. you probably want some layout_toRightOf="")
Jan 12 22:02:16 <MikeWallaceDev> skrite, yes.  And you can simplify this layout a lot
Jan 12 22:02:17 <tricknology_> jsut the gorupIndicator of one cell
Jan 12 22:02:28 <Fraz> nemik yes and yes
Jan 12 22:02:43 <Fraz> and as i said i have multiple devices here all with the same problem
Jan 12 22:02:49 <pfn> time to get a new pc
Jan 12 22:02:54 <skrite> and maybe weights are not a better answer. ok, will work on it, thanks MikeWallaceDev and groxx
Jan 12 22:03:15 <groxx> skrite: relativelayout is basically a rules-based layout engine.  you tell it what constraints you have ("right edge, below this, above that" etc) and it figures it out.
Jan 12 22:03:37 <skrite> groxx: sounds simpler than what i am doing.
Jan 12 22:03:43 <groxx> quite possibly :)
Jan 12 22:03:54 <MikeWallaceDev> skrite you have a linearlayout with only one ImageView in it. Remove the outer layout
Jan 12 22:04:17 <skrite> gotcha
Jan 12 22:05:53 <MikeWallaceDev> huh, pastie.org looks pretty nice.... Better than pastebin maybe?
Jan 12 22:08:36 <pfn> I generally use gist
Jan 12 22:08:54 <pfn> pastie if I want to be anonymous
Jan 12 22:09:23 <MikeWallaceDev> cool.
Jan 12 22:10:21 <skrite> ok, if i use width="match_parent" on two elements that are beside each other, shouldn't they fill the screen and be about the same size?
Jan 12 22:11:03 <MikeWallaceDev> nope
Jan 12 22:11:14 <groxx> they won't be aware of each other, and relativelayout will just let them overlap, so _generally_ you'd just get one visible, the other hidden behind the first
Jan 12 22:11:23 <MikeWallaceDev> that's where weights come in :D
Jan 12 22:12:43 <skrite> what if they are in a RelativeLayout?
Jan 12 22:13:21 <theblang> MikeWallaceDev, pfn I've started using gist also
Jan 12 22:13:24 <MikeWallaceDev> if you have just two views, don't put them in a relative layout, put them in a linear
Jan 12 22:13:26 <groxx> skrite: if you haven't set a rule for how they relate to each other, then their layout is unrelated to each other, and pretty much anything goes.
Jan 12 22:14:41 <skrite> i see. ok, thanks very much
Jan 12 22:15:38 <MikeWallaceDev> I have an APK that is just a Content Provider.  I haven't an Activity, nor is that a Launcher Intent. This does what I want (doesn't show up in launcher). But is there something that I'm missing? Side effects?
Jan 12 22:18:38 <Chainfire> pft, figured it out. There was an animation attached to that view. In to and out of view animation. One of those was triggered (eventually) from onStop. Interesting discovery: if you start an animation in onStop during a configuration change event, it'll start playing in onStart (yeah...)
Jan 12 22:19:22 <groxx> lulz
Jan 12 22:19:51 <groxx> is it the same view?  e.g. are you ignoring rotations?
Jan 12 22:20:27 <Chainfire> retained fragment across recreated activity, so restored view
Jan 12 22:20:35 <Chainfire> but same objects
Jan 12 22:22:52 <skrite> ok, what i don't understand (because i don't want a bunch of nesting) is how, with RelativeLayout, i can have a row, say of two buttons and have them fill the row.
Jan 12 22:23:16 <SimonVT> If the activity is recreated you should recreate the views as well
Jan 12 22:23:38 <groxx> it kinda sorta makes sense then, I guess.  don't think I would've found it quickly though.
Jan 12 22:24:43 <groxx> skrite: I'm not actually sure, off-hand :\  some things let you define layout_width="50%p" or something like that (% of parent width), but I don't know if that's relativelayout or something else.  I'd probably end up wrapping them in a horizontal linearlayout with weight=1 on both.
Jan 12 22:25:11 <skrite> ok, thanks
Jan 12 22:25:36 <omegavesko> Wait a minute, layout_width="50%p" is a thing?
Jan 12 22:25:58 <omegavesko> Last time I needed that I created a centered dummy view to anchor the sides to :/
Jan 12 22:26:03 <Chainfire> well, you don't really see the animation, because that's only a few MS. What really happens is that the AnimatorListener.onAnimationEnd method is posted to the main thread's looper somewhere after onStop, but it doesn't have time to process it until the activity is recreated, the fragment reattached, etc. So it's actually the last code that runs, *after* all the state restoring code
Jan 12 22:26:18 <Chainfire> it all makes sense, but it's funny/weird nonetheless
Jan 12 22:26:21 <groxx> omegavesko: not in general, I think.  I'm having trouble finding it.
Jan 12 22:26:28 <groxx> and I might have the wrong syntax
Jan 12 22:27:51 <SimonVT> No, there's no 50%p thing. There's weight on linearlayout
Jan 12 22:27:56 <groxx> Chainfire: ugh.  yeah, there are lots of fire-and-forget .posts like that in android, it seems :|  I keep finding them and having to patch around them.  otherwise events happen after they should be unsubscribed or disappeared or whatever.
Jan 12 22:28:20 <skrite> which takes me back to nesting.  which, i don't mind if it makes this work
Jan 12 22:29:52 <omegavesko> SimonVT: Ah, okay. Still better than what I was doing :P
Jan 12 22:30:35 <Chainfire> groxx yeah, I've been patching this sort of ui things all week... tiresome work. in the end you get a nice ui, but I rather spend time building function than form
Jan 12 22:30:40 <ruler501> Why might I get a SIGSEGV from running the destructor on a gpg::GameServices unique pointer(it is automatically run at the exit of my app so there is no real code to show)?
Jan 12 22:30:53 <ruler501> http://pastebin.com/iq4Lywjj is the backtrace
Jan 12 22:31:32 <Chainfire> double free ?
Jan 12 22:31:59 <groxx> skrite: yeah.  tbh, just make it work, then try to figure out _why_ it works, and clean it up :)  optimization can come after understanding.
Jan 12 22:32:14 <groxx> it's easier to understand when it's simpler, but it's a bit hard to achieve that immediately
Jan 12 22:39:30 <ruler501> Chainfire you can't double free with a unique_ptr to the best of my knowledge
Jan 12 22:40:10 <JesusFreke> </challenge_accepted>
Jan 12 22:41:13 <Chainfire> lmao
Jan 12 22:41:25 <Chainfire> can still be a wrong pointer, or whatnot
Jan 12 22:41:54 <Chainfire> or, the object you're freeing can have references to non-smart pointers its freeing, but are already freed
Jan 12 22:43:04 <groxx> I don't suppose there's a way to run valgrind against it?
Jan 12 22:43:19 <ruler501> groxx not that I know of
Jan 12 22:44:14 <ruler501> actually looking closer it is a sigbus in my main thread causing a sigsegv in main_dispatch(not sure what thread this is)
Jan 12 22:47:40 <HBKTonyMontana> hello
Jan 12 22:47:50 <HBKTonyMontana> anyone bored and wanna help me get this https://code.google.com/p/socialauth-android/ to work in my app in android studio? It seems to require a ton of dependencies... but there isn't any list of required libraries on  their site. but i know its gotta be a easier way. I stopped adding dependencies to my build script after dependency #6 or so. any takers?
Jan 12 22:48:19 <HBKTonyMontana> please
Jan 12 22:51:43 <AKK9> hi, very quick question. im using getLayoutParams, and then setLayoutParams to change the height of a view
Jan 12 22:51:53 <AKK9> do I need to getLayoutParams every single time I want to set.
Jan 12 22:52:04 <AKK9> Or is it okay to getLayoutParams once and reuse it?
Jan 12 22:53:55 <groxx> both are probably fine, but as usual it depends.  if the view changes its layout params and you .set the old one, you'll undo whatever changes have happened in the meantime.  if you _only_ want to change the height, you're probably better off getting it every time so you don't clobber unrelated changes
Jan 12 22:54:56 <groxx> afaik layoutparams are also used to help save computation info for layout, so you might be putting in old cached data, and it might not be aware of that.  hopefully it is, but who knows.
Jan 12 22:58:03 <SimonVT> LayoutParams don't usually change
Jan 12 22:58:59 <groxx> yeah.  I would assume not, especially for the framework views.  _but_ "usually" is often problematic.
Jan 12 23:01:34 <SimonVT> You should likely find another view if that is the case, who knows what other stupid ideas they came up with
Jan 12 23:02:39 <SimonVT> Anyway, if I was writing the code I wouldn't be caching the params
Jan 12 23:02:58 <groxx> are there non-stupid custom views in android?  everything I've looked at has truly horrible internals.  (I have not gone looking for good ones though)
Jan 12 23:03:37 <MikeWallaceDev> Question: I'm able to secure my Content Provider so that other apps can't access my data. But how do I do this the other way around? Make sure that only known (secure) Content Providers will give me data?
Jan 12 23:04:07 <groxx> MikeWallaceDev: when you're querying other people's content providers?
Jan 12 23:04:23 <MikeWallaceDev> That's the point, I don't want to :)
Jan 12 23:04:41 <MikeWallaceDev> More specifically, I don't want other people making Content Providers for my app.
Jan 12 23:05:37 <groxx> feeding your app "bad" data, or reading data from your app and giving it to others?
Jan 12 23:05:50 <MikeWallaceDev> feeding my app "bad" data
Jan 12 23:07:18 <MikeWallaceDev> I'm really perplexed, this isn't a far fetched idea, it shouldn't be hard to implement
Jan 12 23:07:29 <groxx> hm.  I'd guess you can specify 'provider has permission X', but it's entirely possible that's not possible... not familiar enough with android's permissions system to say
Jan 12 23:08:14 <groxx> might be something on http://nelenkov.blogspot.com/ ?
Jan 12 23:08:30 <MikeWallaceDev> oh, I should mention!  There is a permission string, but that's crap.  It's a string!  You can just reverse the app and get the string.  I want something that is key related.
Jan 12 23:10:22 <groxx> if you're installed first, and you declare the permission (ie, claim ownership), I think newer OSes prevent other apps from declaring it.  then you need to do the "normal" custom-permissions stuff to ensure that <requesting app X> has-and-should-have <custom permission Y>.
Jan 12 23:10:56 <JesusFreke> MikeWallaceDev: if you're not exposing the data to other apps, why use a content provider at all?
Jan 12 23:11:07 <groxx> there was something wonky if app X was installed before your app though, and there are some other details I don't totally follow yet.
Jan 12 23:11:36 <Chainfire> dont declare cross-app permissions
Jan 12 23:11:38 <MikeWallaceDev> JesusFreke, that's how I am selling my content. Through providers.
Jan 12 23:12:10 <groxx> Chainfire: that's the picture I keep getting.  did you write something about why, or know a site that has some reasons?
Jan 12 23:12:16 <JesusFreke> MikeWallaceDev: I'm not sure I follow
Jan 12 23:12:20 <groxx> or alternatives
Jan 12 23:12:52 <MikeWallaceDev> basically (but not really) it's a book reader.  And each book is an Apk that exposes a Content Provider. You buy the APK to get the book.  But I don't want other people to sell books for my app.
Jan 12 23:12:53 <Chainfire> the system is not designed for it
Jan 12 23:12:56 <Chainfire> you will run into problems
Jan 12 23:13:03 <JesusFreke> ah
Jan 12 23:13:04 <Chainfire> various android versions treat it differently
Jan 12 23:13:21 <JesusFreke> you should probably check the signature of the application that's exposing the content provider then
Jan 12 23:13:43 <groxx> hm.  I guess you could give apps a unique URI and require all access to go through that.  then they would have to request the uri from your app, and you can do whatever you want.
Jan 12 23:13:43 <MikeWallaceDev> oh, that might work
Jan 12 23:13:50 <JesusFreke> or, expose a permission in your main app that is signature-only
Jan 12 23:14:16 <MikeWallaceDev> I don't get that one ?
Jan 12 23:14:22 <MikeWallaceDev> that's what I want to do :D
Jan 12 23:14:38 <Chainfire> but then on device backup/restore/wipe/re-install it has to be installed in the right order or boom
Jan 12 23:14:42 <JesusFreke> http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/manifest/permission-element.html
Jan 12 23:14:50 <JesusFreke> with protectionlevel="signature"
Jan 12 23:15:00 <MikeWallaceDev> Chainfire, there's no order in my implementation.
Jan 12 23:15:27 <Chainfire> if you use the permission tag, there needs to be the correct install order, or it won't work
Jan 12 23:15:34 <MikeWallaceDev> yeah JesusFreke that page is open in front of me... I can't figure out how to do it from CP to main app
Jan 12 23:15:55 <JesusFreke> Could you "declare" the permission in the main apk and also in the book apks?
Jan 12 23:16:12 <JesusFreke> So it doesn't matter which is installed first, the permission will still be created, based on that same signature
Jan 12 23:16:14 <MikeWallaceDev> I can do that for the CP
Jan 12 23:16:22 <Chainfire> if they're signed with the same key, maybe
Jan 12 23:16:36 <JesusFreke> if it's a "signature" permission, of course they'll be signed with the same key
Jan 12 23:16:38 <Chainfire> I would definitely test this on a 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 and 5.0 device though....
Jan 12 23:16:56 <JesusFreke> but yeah, the alternative would be to do a runtime check of the signature
Jan 12 23:17:08 <MikeWallaceDev> guys, you're going into the fine details of something that doesn't work :D
Jan 12 23:17:11 <Chainfire> if possible I would do the latter, and avoid this mess
Jan 12 23:17:29 <MikeWallaceDev> yeah, the app signature might work though
Jan 12 23:17:37 <MikeWallaceDev> I mean, it will work...
Jan 12 23:17:45 <MikeWallaceDev> Just wondering if there are better ways
Jan 12 23:18:43 <MikeWallaceDev> Ok, going to look into that.  Thanks mates!
Jan 12 23:19:10 <AKK9> SimonVT, groxx thanks guys. reusing LayoutParams works fine.
Jan 12 23:19:23 <AKK9> finally recreated the spotify effect with the list header
Jan 12 23:19:28 <AKK9> so happy
Jan 12 23:19:56 <AKK9> taken me hours :/
Jan 12 23:28:44 <drinfernoo> anyone ever used https://github.com/matshofman/Android-RSS-Reader-Library?
Jan 12 23:29:29 <mark4> ok so im trying to modify some example code and in the manifest.xml it has ...
Jan 12 23:29:39 <mark4> erm hang on cut/paste problems
Jan 12 23:29:47 <TacticalJoke> Let's say that I want a layout with two views on the left, one on top of the other, which have variable heights.  Then I want a view on the right of both, and I want that view to have the height of the other two views combined.
Jan 12 23:29:55 <TacticalJoke> As far as I can tell, it's impossible to do this with one RelativeLayout.  Is that right?
Jan 12 23:30:43 <TacticalJoke> (The view on the right has a fixed width.)
Jan 12 23:30:48 <TacticalJoke> Here's the obvious try (which doesn't work): http://pastebin.com/GbPx7gwz
Jan 12 23:30:58 <TacticalJoke> Just imagine that those two views on the left have variable height.  :)
Jan 12 23:31:28 <TacticalJoke> Oops, forgot the background for the bottom-left view.
Jan 12 23:31:56 <mark4> <action android:name="android.intent.action.MAIN" />  but when i go to compile the /> disappears and i get a bunch of spaes and then .service.USER_CONTEXT_SERVICE />
Jan 12 23:32:15 <TacticalJoke> If I declare the view-on-the-right first, that doesn't work either (because then we don't know the combined height of the two views on the left).
Jan 12 23:32:23 <mark4> why is he sources being modified when i build?
Jan 12 23:32:26 <ServerCrash> Hi I am facing strange issue with GCM notification, everytime server sends a notification with payload, i get 2 copies, 1st without payload and then 2nd with payload.
Jan 12 23:32:43 <drinfernoo> TacticalJoke, put the two on the left in a vertical LinearLayout, with both that and your right view in a horizontal LinearLayout?
Jan 12 23:32:47 <ServerCrash> Any idea why is this happening
Jan 12 23:32:51 <mark4> i get a gradle erro about the attribute name having an invalid character
Jan 12 23:33:02 <TacticalJoke> drinfernoo:  Ya.  Was just curious of whether it's possible to do this with a single ViewGroup.
Jan 12 23:33:09 <drinfernoo> idk lol
Jan 12 23:33:11 <TacticalJoke> I think it's not.
Jan 12 23:33:40 <drinfernoo> I'm trying to get my RSS reader to work :( and it seems like it is, but its not getting any items from the feed
Jan 12 23:35:01 <drinfernoo> TacticalJoke, do you have any apps released? or is this your first?
Jan 12 23:35:26 <TacticalJoke> I haven't released any yet.  :)
Jan 12 23:35:32 <groxx> TacticalJoke: yeah, afaik there's no `layout_alignBottomWithBottomOf="id"` style rules.  but wrapping it all in a wrap_content frame layout isn't too costly.
Jan 12 23:35:46 <mark4> why is my manifest xml file being EDITED by the build operation?
Jan 12 23:36:25 <groxx> mark4: as in, the actual file in your source folders is changing, or the output manifest doesn't precisely match what you put in?  like, additional permissions or something.
Jan 12 23:36:29 <TacticalJoke> groxx:  Ya.  I guess either that or measure at run-time.
Jan 12 23:36:37 <groxx> yup
Jan 12 23:36:59 <AKK9> TacticalJoke, i think i got it
Jan 12 23:37:01 <AKK9> one sec
Jan 12 23:37:57 <AKK9> http://pastebin.com/t6dyg4RB
Jan 12 23:37:59 <AKK9> Like this?
Jan 12 23:38:35 <AKK9> layout_alignBottom and layout_alignTop
Jan 12 23:38:46 <AKK9> or did I misunderstand your question?
Jan 12 23:38:59 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, that seems to work.
Jan 12 23:39:00 <ServerCrash> anyone has any idea why GCM sending two copies of same message, one without payload and other with payload.
Jan 12 23:39:32 <TacticalJoke> AKK9:  Should the second android:id="@+id/right" be android:id="@id/right", though?
Jan 12 23:39:47 <TacticalJoke> I mean the third.  Hmm.
Jan 12 23:40:09 <AKK9> what do you mean?
Jan 12 23:40:52 <TacticalJoke> I think "@+id/right" should appear only once, with the other two being "@id/right", but I'm not sure.
Jan 12 23:40:53 <yacek19> hi
Jan 12 23:40:54 <groxx> ServerCrash: I haven't seen that one, but I have seen some odd issues with gcm.  (some devices never get the collapse key, for example).  is it all devices, or just one, and are you double extra sure it's not just a flow-control problem?  also, you can receive other kinds of messages, are you filtering them out?
Jan 12 23:41:13 <yacek19> in preference what does setPersistent do?
Jan 12 23:41:42 <AKK9> Nah, there is only one view which has @id/right. the other two uses of it are in the toLeftOf attribute
Jan 12 23:42:05 <groxx> TacticalJoke: @+id works too.  it's required if your e.g. layout_toRightOf refers to a view further down the xml file.
Jan 12 23:42:09 <ServerCrash> groxx, its just one device, the gcm message delivery reports says succesfully delivered to 1 device. but device is getting 2 messages, one with payload and one without payload
Jan 12 23:42:14 <mark4> groxx i mean. i have a line that says <action android:name="android.intent.MAIN />
Jan 12 23:42:20 <ServerCrash> there is no cannonical id issue also
Jan 12 23:42:21 <mark4> and when i build it changes to
Jan 12 23:42:23 <AKK9> Oh, you meant the +
Jan 12 23:42:43 <AKK9> What groxx said. I didn't actually knwo that.
Jan 12 23:42:55 <TacticalJoke> Ya.
Jan 12 23:43:03 <TacticalJoke> groxx:  But that + has to appear only once, right?
Jan 12 23:43:10 <AKK9> Android Studio adds it automatically.
Jan 12 23:43:15 <groxx> @+id vs @id is annoying, and meaningless.  ALL @+<name> in your app will resolve to the same integer.
Jan 12 23:43:17 <mark4> <action android:name="android.intent.action.MAIN                              .service.USER_CONTENT_SERVIVE" />  <-- withj the spaces and the spelling mistake on service
Jan 12 23:43:17 <TacticalJoke> In other words, +id/right once and id/right twice.
Jan 12 23:43:55 <AKK9> No i think +id/right always
Jan 12 23:44:02 <groxx> yeah.  afaik it's "beneficial" if you want to prevent errors, like declaring @+id/right and then @+id/rihgt further down in the file.
Jan 12 23:44:09 <groxx> but that's pretty much it.
Jan 12 23:44:18 <groxx> and if that's a problem, your files are too big.
Jan 12 23:44:25 <TacticalJoke> This is what I mean: http://pastebin.com/U29Y3fXA
Jan 12 23:45:11 <groxx> yeah, i think that'll work
Jan 12 23:45:28 <AKK9> i just use + everywhere
Jan 12 23:45:49 <TacticalJoke> Thanks, AKK9.  I'm surprised this works.  I thought RelativeLayout was too dumb to do that.  :D
Jan 12 23:45:53 <groxx> same.  too annoying to keep track, and it breaks stuff if you reorganize.
Jan 12 23:46:09 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, okay.  I thought using + everywhere was an error, for some reason.  Guess I need to google it.
Jan 12 23:46:20 <AKK9> TacticalJoke, anytime mate
Jan 12 23:46:30 <AKK9> first time i actually helped someone here
Jan 12 23:46:39 <AKK9> i feel like im finally giving back haha
Jan 12 23:46:41 <drinfernoo> TacticalJoke, me too. I still need to get test accounts and stuff set up
Jan 12 23:46:43 <TacticalJoke> :)
Jan 12 23:47:07 <groxx> mark4: weird... never seen that
Jan 12 23:47:44 <AKK9> Yeah RealtiveLayout seems pretty flexible actually, I used to hate it but with a bit of effort you can really minimise the number of layers in your layout by being smart with RelativeLayouts
Jan 12 23:47:56 <groxx> mark4: hm.  your earlier copy/paste of the original line is missing an ending quote.  could that be related?  and is there perhaps a trailing period?
Jan 12 23:48:01 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, I hated it at first too.  It's pretty powerful.
Jan 12 23:48:31 <groxx> mark4: (trailing period is a stab in the dark, I'm wondering if it triggers the package-name expansion for weird reasons)
Jan 12 23:50:34 <TacticalJoke> AKK9:  I'm surprised that's your first answer.  That was pretty technical.  :)
Jan 12 23:50:48 <TacticalJoke> Or first upvoted answer.
Jan 12 23:54:58 <mark4> there is a " there, i cant copy/paste out of this stupid vbox even tho i set two way clipboard
Jan 12 23:55:35 <mark4> but im getting other errors in here too. this is basically a cut/paste out of one example project into another where all im changing is the package name
Jan 12 23:56:10 <mark4> and im getting things like orientation attribute not allowed here, data attribute not allowed here... .. .
Jan 12 23:56:22 <groxx> mark4: dunno then :\  probably I'd just comb through for errors, and eventually just start from scratch and write it in by hand incrementally to see what breaks.
Jan 12 23:56:35 <ReScO> Why doesn't LVL work on someone else's phone?
Jan 12 23:56:45 <groxx> lvl = ?
Jan 12 23:56:50 <mark4> groxx theres WAY WAY WAY too much in here to strip it down to a minimum, it would throw all kinds of other errors
Jan 12 23:56:52 <ReScO> license verification
Jan 12 23:57:01 <mark4> this is literally a cut/paste and modify the package name
Jan 12 23:57:12 <mark4> the build is EDITING the source
Jan 12 23:57:28 <mark4> its like its being expanded by bash or something stupid lol
Jan 12 23:58:17 <mark4> attribute application:icon not allowed here
Jan 12 23:58:18 <mark4> wtf
Jan 12 23:58:41 <groxx> best guess is invalid xml, tbh
Jan 12 23:58:53 <groxx> though build causing changes is legitimately weird
Jan 12 23:59:31 <mark4> now im gettin getting URI is not registered
Jan 12 23:59:48 <TacticalJoke> Does Gradle change that file?
Jan 12 23:59:50 <mark4> on the <manifext xmlns:android="..." <-- !
Jan 13 00:00:02 <TacticalJoke> I'd guess not, but curious.
Jan 13 00:00:20 <mark4> i have no idea about anything gradle does but this is a gradle project where as the original was not
Jan 13 00:00:35 <mark4> why would gradle MODIFY the manifest
Jan 13 00:00:37 <mark4> EVER
Jan 13 00:00:55 <groxx> gradle creates _other_ manifests that are used in the final product, but it shouldn't be modifying the original (though it could do anything, obviously, if someone wrote code to do so)
Jan 13 00:00:55 <mark4> gradle sounds like a horrendously stupid and over engineered build system
Jan 13 00:01:30 <HevvyMetal> well mark4
Jan 13 00:01:42 <HevvyMetal> i refuse to disagree with you
Jan 13 00:01:55 <groxx> even under pain of discussion
Jan 13 00:01:56 <mark4> lol
Jan 13 00:02:11 <HevvyMetal> i prefer there not to be much discussion merely assent
Jan 13 00:02:16 <HevvyMetal> wtf is so great about gradle?
Jan 13 00:02:27 <groxx> no xml
Jan 13 00:02:28 <HevvyMetal> it's shell scripts with autodownload m'i right?
Jan 13 00:02:32 <HevvyMetal> who cares
Jan 13 00:02:35 <HevvyMetal> xml was a sideshow
Jan 13 00:02:35 <groxx> xml-haters
Jan 13 00:02:41 <HevvyMetal> it's still makefiles from the 70s
Jan 13 00:02:45 <HevvyMetal> its just a newage makefile
Jan 13 00:02:51 <groxx> yeah, but so is every other build system
Jan 13 00:02:52 <HevvyMetal> what REALLY is better about it? anyone?
Jan 13 00:02:59 <HevvyMetal> right groxx
Jan 13 00:03:05 <HevvyMetal> so what is it about gradle that is unique?
Jan 13 00:03:12 <groxx> no xml
Jan 13 00:03:14 <HevvyMetal> its just another crap build system (but with autodownloads)
Jan 13 00:03:15 <mark4> any build environment that requires a third party build system is automatically STUPID
Jan 13 00:03:30 <HevvyMetal> ummm makefiles NEVER had xml groxx!
Jan 13 00:03:36 <mark4> that includes make. cmake etc etc
Jan 13 00:03:38 <groxx> makefiles are useful too :)
Jan 13 00:03:40 <HevvyMetal> pom != the world
Jan 13 00:03:49 <HevvyMetal> gradle is a makefile posing as a hipster shiznit
Jan 13 00:03:51 <mark4> makefiles are stupid
Jan 13 00:03:53 <groxx> BUT makefiles have the massive downside of not being reliably portable
Jan 13 00:04:02 <HevvyMetal> yeah yeah
Jan 13 00:04:16 <HevvyMetal> all these portable things with 3rd party reqs as mark4 mentions
Jan 13 00:04:20 <mark4> groxx portability is a MYTH
Jan 13 00:04:25 <HevvyMetal> yup
Jan 13 00:04:25 <mark4> there is no such thing as portable c
Jan 13 00:04:34 <HevvyMetal> and makefiles are FAR more portable than gradle
Jan 13 00:04:35 <groxx> sure, but some things are more mythical than others :)
Jan 13 00:04:43 <HevvyMetal> what linux distros use gradle and no make? come on
Jan 13 00:04:50 <mark4> show me portable C and ill show youy 3487658374 differet versions of that code all interleaved into an unreadable grodian knot of conditionals
Jan 13 00:05:13 <HevvyMetal> what is maven() in gradle anyway?
Jan 13 00:05:17 <HevvyMetal> a function call?
Jan 13 00:05:25 <HevvyMetal> where is it definied? what does it do? set global variables?
Jan 13 00:05:37 <groxx> yeah.  which is why it's a benefit that gradle files are written in groovy, which runs on JVM.  JVM does portability exceptionally well.
Jan 13 00:05:50 <HevvyMetal> oh now it's written in some obscure languge now one knows
Jan 13 00:05:51 <HevvyMetal> groovy
Jan 13 00:05:56 <HevvyMetal> ok so we got hipster down here
Jan 13 00:06:03 <HevvyMetal> it's written in groovy so we have to use it
Jan 13 00:06:10 <HevvyMetal> why can't we write our android apps in groovy then?
Jan 13 00:06:20 <groxx> you probably can
Jan 13 00:06:50 <HevvyMetal> great so can we debug our gradle groovy stuff in AS? where is maven() defined groxx?
Jan 13 00:06:51 <TacticalJoke> So when we have a forward-reference such as android:layout_toLeftOf="@+id/log_in_button", I'm guessing the RelativeLayout waits to draw the current view until the other view has been drawn.
Jan 13 00:07:02 <groxx> HevvyMetal: you can debug makefiles?  do tell.
Jan 13 00:07:12 <groxx> but the lack of debuggability does bug me
Jan 13 00:07:22 <groxx> BUT you couldn't really debug Eclipse either, so this is no loss.
Jan 13 00:07:34 <HevvyMetal> i'm ok with loving groovy i just want something to love about it
Jan 13 00:07:42 <HevvyMetal> please tell me some nice things i should love about it :)
Jan 13 00:08:13 <groxx> TacticalJoke: I'm _guessing_ that the draw order is still the same as the views are declared in the file.  forward-references are just for @+id compilation, the layout-rule-resolving part doesn't know about them or care.
Jan 13 00:08:45 <tksko> hello
Jan 13 00:08:51 <tksko> i have a question with themes.. i am a bit lost
Jan 13 00:09:25 <HevvyMetal> hey groxx chk ur pm
Jan 13 00:09:44 <groxx> I have none afaik
Jan 13 00:11:13 <tksko> i have problems crearting a theme for differents api versions
Jan 13 00:12:11 <pfn> then ask
Jan 13 00:12:18 <pfn> why waste our time making us ask you to ask
Jan 13 00:12:41 <HevvyMetal> got coffee pfn?
Jan 13 00:12:49 <pfn> always
Jan 13 00:12:52 <HevvyMetal> he didn't even ask
Jan 13 00:12:57 <HevvyMetal> he just stated
Jan 13 00:13:06 <tksko> sorry, iam thinking how to ask it correctly
Jan 13 00:13:35 <tksko> i want to know  how can idefine a "base" theme and then add the "new" things in every version
Jan 13 00:13:37 <pfn> HevvyMetal, right, that's the problem, he says he has a problem, he wants help, and he doesn't ask, prompting us to have to ask him to ask us to help him...
Jan 13 00:13:45 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, the documentation says that the layout system does a single layout pass.  So I wonder how it deals with forward references determining the current view's position.
Jan 13 00:13:53 <tksko> because now i am redifining the entire theme over and over to add 1 o 2 lines ...
Jan 13 00:14:09 <pfn> tksko, then create a Theme.Base in your unqualified values
Jan 13 00:14:18 <pfn> then in every version, specify Theme.Base as your parent
Jan 13 00:14:20 <groxx> tksko: styles have "parent" attributes, for inheriting from other styles
Jan 13 00:14:29 <tksko> for example, now in Android 5, api 21, i want to change the navigationBarColor color
Jan 13 00:14:56 <tksko> but i wat to use the same theme for previous versions but only add the navigationBarColor item
Jan 13 00:15:03 <pfn> parent=Theme.Base
Jan 13 00:15:13 <pfn> Theme.MyApp extends Theme.Base
Jan 13 00:15:14 <tksko> but i cant hinerit from myself...
Jan 13 00:15:15 <pfn> problem solved
Jan 13 00:15:27 <pfn> android:theme=style/Theme.MyApp
Jan 13 00:15:44 <pfn> why would you inherit from yourself
Jan 13 00:15:55 <TacticalJoke> So if the currently-being-laid-out view has toLeftOf="@+id/whatever", and 'whatever' is defined next, the only thing I can imagine is that it actually draws 'whatever' first.  Hmm.
Jan 13 00:16:14 <TacticalJoke> Or at least lays out 'whatever' first.
Jan 13 00:16:16 <pfn> TacticalJoke, a single layout pass, doesn't mean relativelayout itself doesn't do multiple internal calculations
Jan 13 00:16:21 <tksko> my base theme is  <style name="Theme.Nekotheme" parent="@style/Theme.AppCompat.Light.DarkActionBar">
Jan 13 00:16:23 <TacticalJoke> Okay.
Jan 13 00:16:38 <groxx> TacticalJoke: "@+id" doesn't exist after it has been compiled, it's all turned into the actual integer values
Jan 13 00:16:44 <tksko> but i cant to this
Jan 13 00:16:44 <tksko>  <style name="Theme.Nekotheme" parent="@style/Theme.Nekotheme">
Jan 13 00:16:44 <TacticalJoke> Right.
Jan 13 00:16:50 <pfn> tksko, wrong
Jan 13 00:16:51 <pfn> Theme.Base
Jan 13 00:17:00 <TacticalJoke> Just the fact that it's a forward-reference seems special.
Jan 13 00:17:01 <pfn> Theme.Nekotheme parent=Theme.Base
Jan 13 00:17:03 <groxx> TacticalJoke: ah, i see what you're thinking
Jan 13 00:17:19 <pfn> TacticalJoke, internal calculation, not a layout pass
Jan 13 00:17:22 <TacticalJoke> Ya.
Jan 13 00:17:33 <groxx> TacticalJoke: it's not special, truly.  relativelayout will go over the rules you've defined in whatever order it needs to resolve them.
Jan 13 00:17:42 <TacticalJoke> I'm guessing LinearLayout does similar stuff.
Jan 13 00:17:50 <groxx> it might _look at_ currently-being-layed-out first, but that won't affect the output
Jan 13 00:18:04 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, that makes sense.
Jan 13 00:18:56 <tksko> Theme.base doesnt exsists
Jan 13 00:19:20 <TacticalJoke> I'm guessing it follows from all this that avoiding forward-references where possible might lead to faster laying out.
Jan 13 00:19:28 <TacticalJoke> (Though of course we can't always avoid them.)
Jan 13 00:19:36 <groxx> tksko: https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/themes.html
Jan 13 00:20:13 <groxx> TacticalJoke: most likely not, more references mean more rules.  more rules _might_ make it less ambiguous / lead to a resolution more quickly, but it's not that simple
Jan 13 00:20:50 <TacticalJoke> Okay, but avoiding forward-references doesn't always mean more rules.  I guess those are the cases I'm thinking of.  :)
Jan 13 00:21:48 <TacticalJoke> Let's say that I have an "OK" button at the bottom-right of the parent.  I could declare this first in the layout and then declare the "Cancel" button as toLeftOf="OK".  Or I could declare the cancel button first and use a forward-reference.
Jan 13 00:22:09 <pfn> it makes no difference
Jan 13 00:22:10 <TacticalJoke> That's the kinda thing I'm thinking of.
Jan 13 00:22:19 <TacticalJoke> pfn:  There won't be a performance difference?
Jan 13 00:22:21 <pfn> everything is loaded into an internal table
Jan 13 00:22:24 <pfn> then processing is performed
Jan 13 00:22:27 <pfn> order doesn't really matter
Jan 13 00:22:40 <groxx> TacticalJoke: http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/5.0.0_r1/android/widget/RelativeLayout.java#RelativeLayout.onMeasure%28int%2Cint%29 might be useful.  but no, it won't make a difference.
Jan 13 00:22:40 <ServerCrash> looks like GCM has gone crazy, one device receives multiple notifications while other works fine.
Jan 13 00:22:54 <TacticalJoke> I'll check that; thanks.
Jan 13 00:23:09 <groxx> or, at _best_ you might save a couple comparisons at the very _very_ start of it all, but it's incosequential.  it's trivial compared to everything else.
Jan 13 00:23:18 <ServerCrash> more over GCM message also says 0 Cannonical ids
Jan 13 00:23:38 <zhntr> I'm using an old version of volley, is safe use mcxiaoke version on maven central?
Jan 13 00:25:57 <groxx> ServerCrash: dunno.  GCM doesn't guarantee almost anything though, fwiw - weird stuff can and does happen, though it's generally fast and reliable.
Jan 13 00:26:01 <pfn>  TacticalJoke quit wasting time on stuff that doesn't matter
Jan 13 00:27:18 <HevvyMetal> agreed pfn
Jan 13 00:28:36 <drinfernoo> so anybody worked with RSS?
Jan 13 00:28:59 <HevvyMetal> this is what steams me about gradle is statements like this
Jan 13 00:29:00 <pfn> nope
Jan 13 00:29:01 <tksko> i still dont know how to do what i want....
Jan 13 00:29:02 <HevvyMetal>  Gradle build scripts are declarative, readable, and clearly express their intention
Jan 13 00:29:03 <pfn> no one has ever heard of rss
Jan 13 00:29:07 <HevvyMetal> they are imperative!
Jan 13 00:29:10 <pfn> tksko, just told you exactly how to do it
Jan 13 00:29:23 <tksko> i though i need an intermediate theme..
Jan 13 00:29:29 <HevvyMetal> but noone knows the difference between declarative and imperative heh
Jan 13 00:29:33 <tksko> and then hinerit it from all the different apis
Jan 13 00:29:41 <tksko> i am using appcompat library
Jan 13 00:29:43 <pfn> tksko, I did tell your intermediate
Jan 13 00:30:33 <tksko> oh! i didint read that message
Jan 13 00:30:34 <tksko> sorry
Jan 13 00:30:57 <tksko> what do you think about appcompat?
Jan 13 00:31:08 <pfn> what about it
Jan 13 00:31:14 <pfn> it's a necessity if you want material theme
Jan 13 00:31:19 <pfn> on pre-lollipop
Jan 13 00:31:35 <tksko> yes.. but i am using it for android 2.x
Jan 13 00:31:41 <HevvyMetal>  Gradle's DSL is written with Groovy providing syntactic sugar on top of Java.
Jan 13 00:31:43 <tksko> but who is using that android versions nowadays
Jan 13 00:31:47 <HevvyMetal> how can anyone say that is portable?
Jan 13 00:31:48 <omegavesko> tksko: that's the point
Jan 13 00:32:02 <HevvyMetal> for a gradle build to run, some embedded system would need not only java, but groovy for it?
Jan 13 00:32:04 <HevvyMetal> that is crazy
Jan 13 00:32:05 <omegavesko> tksko: I mean, you need it if you want material in 4.0-4.4 as well
Jan 13 00:32:06 <tksko> i used actionabrsherlok and appcompat from the begining
Jan 13 00:32:11 <pfn> tksko, don't bother support 2.x
Jan 13 00:32:12 <tksko> but my point is... till when
Jan 13 00:32:30 <pfn> HevvyMetal, uh, groovy ships as a jar, wherever java runs, groovy runs
Jan 13 00:32:32 <tksko> yes, we willl have to use it for material theme
Jan 13 00:32:32 <pfn> problem solved?
Jan 13 00:32:42 <omegavesko> my app uses appcompat but I'm only supporting 4.0+
Jan 13 00:33:05 <tksko> i had lot of problem supporting api8
Jan 13 00:33:19 <pfn> then don't support api8
Jan 13 00:33:20 <tksko> now i am on api9+ because of google play services..
Jan 13 00:33:26 <pfn> then don't support api9
Jan 13 00:33:41 <tksko> what about maps?
Jan 13 00:33:50 <tksko> any good alternative to google maps?
Jan 13 00:33:51 <pfn> what does not supporting api9 have to do with maps
Jan 13 00:33:58 <tksko> OSMdroid is a bit buggy..
Jan 13 00:34:11 <omegavesko> tksko: maps will still work if you support something *newer* than api9
Jan 13 00:34:17 <omegavesko> it's api9+, not just api9
Jan 13 00:34:35 <tksko> sorry i just changed the topic
Jan 13 00:34:57 <tksko> i am using osmdroid for my maps.. but its a bit buggy
Jan 13 00:35:04 <tksko> but i refuse to use google maps library
Jan 13 00:35:09 <omegavesko> why?
Jan 13 00:35:23 <tksko> it doesnt work well on my city..
Jan 13 00:35:30 <tksko> its a bit uncomplete..
Jan 13 00:35:35 <omegavesko> hm, okay
Jan 13 00:35:42 <tksko> incomplete
Jan 13 00:35:55 <tksko> osmdroid works better in little cities and towns
Jan 13 00:36:08 <tksko> but the library for android has some problems..
Jan 13 00:36:47 <tksko> i dont know if there is another library for maps nowadays
Jan 13 00:36:47 <omegavesko> well, after a bit of googling  it looks like osmdroid is pretty much the only library for OSM
Jan 13 00:36:59 <tksko> yep :(
Jan 13 00:37:14 <omegavesko> not sure what your options are then
Jan 13 00:37:28 <tksko> there are other libraries but they are deprecated.....
Jan 13 00:37:42 <tksko> pheraps i will test google maps again
Jan 13 00:37:58 <tksko> and see if they are better now
Jan 13 00:38:20 <groxx> tksko: yeah, I don't know of any better OSM libs.  there are alternatives like Nokia maps that might work better in some places
Jan 13 00:38:58 <tksko> yes but is there any android library for nokia maps?
Jan 13 00:39:05 <drinfernoo> pfn, let me phrase that differently. anyone have any experience with https://github.com/matshofman/Android-RSS-Reader-Library? I would assume that it uses normal RSS feed functionality, just bundled in a library, but using it, I'm not actually getting any items from the feed. code here: https://github.com/drinfernoo/Cuber/blob/17daa7aecdb4a50bb718a2da99f7f6a45f1d35b8/app/src/main/java/com/blango/cuber/fragment/NewsFragment.java
Jan 13 00:39:40 <groxx> tksko: I think so: https://developer.here.com/
Jan 13 00:40:00 <tksko> today my best app reaches 10k downlaods :D
Jan 13 00:40:02 <omegavesko> (damn, here.com was probably expensive as fuck)
Jan 13 00:40:14 <DadFoundMy> tksko: link?
Jan 13 00:40:22 <tksko> but its only in spanish
Jan 13 00:40:27 <DadFoundMy> por favor?
Jan 13 00:40:31 <DadFoundMy> :D
Jan 13 00:40:43 <tksko> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tkskoapps.bahiaurbana
Jan 13 00:40:57 <tksko> its an app to track public transport units over the city
Jan 13 00:41:07 <tksko> and other services
Jan 13 00:41:15 <DadFoundMy> cool
Jan 13 00:41:23 <tksko> yeah, and its free with no ads :P
Jan 13 00:41:32 <omegavesko> oh nice
Jan 13 00:42:01 <tksko> i love to get feedback from users
Jan 13 00:42:02 <DadFoundMy> So i guess i would  ask this here. I am 16 and currently developing a system/framework to make apps for small businesses.  how much should i charge for making an app for one of these small businesses in my area?
Jan 13 00:42:08 <omegavesko> my town's public transport company has something similar but they outsourced it to some really shitty dev that maintains a single app for all cities
Jan 13 00:42:37 <DadFoundMy> if all goes well ill be able to make the app in under a day, meaning that a should not charge much, but does that matter
Jan 13 00:42:38 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: just charge a reasonable hourly rate, or figure out a flat fee from there
Jan 13 00:42:49 <tksko> well here they have the "official app"
Jan 13 00:42:51 <tksko> but it sucks
Jan 13 00:42:58 <tksko> mine is better.. but politics.....
Jan 13 00:43:21 <omegavesko> yeah, the app here requires you to select a bus stop, then select from a list of the next 3-4 buses that stop there
Jan 13 00:43:27 <DadFoundMy> omegavesko: thats my worr, if i charge hourly it would be be barely any
Jan 13 00:43:36 <omegavesko> and THEN it shows you a Maps page of the location
Jan 13 00:44:03 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: well, you can also account for the value it provides to the company
Jan 13 00:44:17 <omegavesko> and how much it would take you if you were to build it from scratch (without the framework)
Jan 13 00:44:48 <groxx> official transit apps are a special kind of horrible.
Jan 13 00:45:06 <omegavesko> tksko: Ironically enough, I also developed a third party app that scrapes our transport company's website. Unfortunately mine is limited to showing the timetable since that's all you can get from the website.
Jan 13 00:45:13 <DadFoundMy> omegavesko: so what woulda rough estimate of that be? $50? $200? $1000? I realized i have very little knollege of these kind of things, so i guess i should start thinking about it
Jan 13 00:45:29 <DadFoundMy> for example if a small business approuched you to make them an app  how much would you charge?
Jan 13 00:45:43 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: $200-300 sounds about right I think
Jan 13 00:45:50 <DadFoundMy> cool thanks
Jan 13 00:45:52 <omegavesko> I mean, it would depend on what the app is actually supposed to do
Jan 13 00:46:01 <tksko> i am reading about the HERE nokia maps for Android
Jan 13 00:46:05 <tksko> it seems to be very cool
Jan 13 00:46:23 <groxx> DadFoundMy: generally, when contracting, you charge per-hour something related to "time spent" + "expected time waiting for new contracts".  a couple hundred per hour sounds crazy, but you're not going to be doing that 365 days/year, so you need to make enough to pay for your time to look for more.
Jan 13 00:46:24 <DadFoundMy> right now it will show employees, events, contact info, pictures, and hopefully anything else the client wants
Jan 13 00:46:50 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: ah, so an app version of their website basically?
Jan 13 00:47:04 <tksko> where are you from OmegaVesko ?
Jan 13 00:47:10 <omegavesko> tksko: Serbia
Jan 13 00:47:26 <DadFoundMy> omegavesko: well what i found is that many of the small business websites in my area are awful, so people in my area dont use them
Jan 13 00:47:31 <DadFoundMy> hopefully this may change that
Jan 13 00:48:01 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: hm, makes sense
Jan 13 00:48:02 <DadFoundMy> i had the idea when i tried to order pizza and a local pizzeria didnt even realize there domain expired :/
Jan 13 00:48:18 <omegavesko> maybe you could learn some web development and offer to rebuild those as well :P
Jan 13 00:48:26 <tksko> in my city there are no android devs..
Jan 13 00:48:29 <tksko> very few apps..
Jan 13 00:48:43 <tksko> i dont think i can make any money here, perhaps freelance is the best choise
Jan 13 00:48:55 <omegavesko> tksko: my town has a population of like 100k, we have very few of.. anything really
Jan 13 00:48:56 <DadFoundMy> yeah i was thinking that, but i have barely any experience with web dev. hell i dont have a ton with android but atleast its something
Jan 13 00:49:24 <matt_j> Heyy
Jan 13 00:49:25 <tksko> do you have any app in the store?
Jan 13 00:49:36 <DadFoundMy> tksko: im too scared to publish :/
Jan 13 00:49:43 <tksko> lol
Jan 13 00:49:47 <DadFoundMy> i dont think any of my stuff is good enough
Jan 13 00:49:48 <matt_j> are there any views out there that can do a metro-like tile arrangement with an adapter?
Jan 13 00:49:57 <tksko> i started 1 year ago and i have 6 apps :D
Jan 13 00:50:23 <DadFoundMy> tksko: nice! how  did you learn? just reading a book?
Jan 13 00:50:24 <tksko> all free apps, and some with ads
Jan 13 00:50:31 <omegavesko> matt_j: hm, I swear I've seen something like that somewhere..
Jan 13 00:50:38 <tksko> yes, reading and asking for help
Jan 13 00:50:43 <tksko> this channel save me lot of times
Jan 13 00:50:47 <AndreYonadam> I just opened an app I had years ago
Jan 13 00:50:51 <tksko> specially with appcompat issues
Jan 13 00:50:58 <DadFoundMy> i have one app that ive been considering open sourcing and throwing on f-droid but i still dont know if its quality
Jan 13 00:51:01 <omegavesko> matt_j: cardslib does it but you end up with cards obviously
Jan 13 00:51:03 <AndreYonadam> I moved information from activities using sharedpreferences
Jan 13 00:51:04 <AndreYonadam> lol
Jan 13 00:51:08 <matt_j> omegavesko: hmm
Jan 13 00:51:27 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: why wouldn't it qualify? I have a couple of apps on there, generally I think they only require the license to be compatible with theirs
Jan 13 00:51:40 <omegavesko> AndreYonadam: lol
Jan 13 00:51:58 <AndreYonadam> It all works though so I'm not going to touch it. I'm going to keep it as is.
Jan 13 00:52:06 <AndreYonadam> I did find one glitch though that I need to fix.
Jan 13 00:52:17 <DadFoundMy> omegavesko: it might just be because i made it, but it just doesnt seem to have the polish that app i use have.  when im on my desktop i can link a apk
Jan 13 00:52:20 <kailoAtWork> I've specified armeabi-v7a build variants for each of my modules (including the app), however I'm getting package not found errors when I do
Jan 13 00:52:28 <AndreYonadam> The settings menu also uses sharedpreferences but if the user doesn't enter a value it will be null.
Jan 13 00:52:31 <kailoAtWork> If I don't specify any build variants, it builds all 6 variants no problem
Jan 13 00:52:49 <kailoAtWork> how can I limit my build variants to just armeabi-v7a?  the iteration time is garbage when it has to build all 6
Jan 13 00:53:10 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: I put my first app on there, it's literally a counter with a number that goes up when you tap it. I don't think they care so much about quality
Jan 13 00:53:33 <omegavesko> AndreYonadam: how did you even manage that
Jan 13 00:53:56 <AndreYonadam> omegavesko: I'm not even sure. The thing is there is a lot of information passed in there
Jan 13 00:54:00 <AndreYonadam> A lot of numbers
Jan 13 00:54:05 <AndreYonadam> The app is a calculator for physics
Jan 13 00:54:06 <AndreYonadam> lol
Jan 13 00:54:08 <DadFoundMy> omegavesko: haha maybe i should throw some up
Jan 13 00:54:23 <DadFoundMy> AndreYonadam: im taking physics right now. willit help me? haha
Jan 13 00:54:26 <HevvyMetal> what country do you live in omegavesko ?
Jan 13 00:54:32 <AndreYonadam> DadFoundMy: Projectile motion?'
Jan 13 00:54:33 <omegavesko> HevvyMetal: Serbia
Jan 13 00:54:33 <AndreYonadam> lol
Jan 13 00:54:42 <DadFoundMy> AndreYonadam: damn just finished it :/
Jan 13 00:54:44 <AndreYonadam> Damn
Jan 13 00:54:55 <AndreYonadam> Its the only one to solve projectile motion almost EVERY CASE STEP BY STEP
Jan 13 00:54:56 <DadFoundMy> if you make one on tension let me know though
Jan 13 00:55:04 <AndreYonadam> DadFoundMy: Not far. :D
Jan 13 00:55:26 <DadFoundMy> AndreYonadam: i made a cli program like that because my teacher jokingly told me to :D
Jan 13 00:55:32 <AndreYonadam> lmao
Jan 13 00:55:40 <HevvyMetal> ok cuz there is no way someone would write an app for $200 in usa
Jan 13 00:55:41 <DadFoundMy> it even prints out a graph using *'s
Jan 13 00:55:55 <AndreYonadam> DadFoundMy: Made this one for AP Calc project: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andreyonadam.areaperimeter
Jan 13 00:56:11 <omegavesko> HevvyMetal: yeah, I figured it was low but I didn't want to give him unrealistic expectations
Jan 13 00:56:16 <omegavesko> better to underpromise than overpromise :P
Jan 13 00:56:16 <DadFoundMy> AndreYonadam: you in high school?
Jan 13 00:56:31 <AndreYonadam> DadFoundMy: No I'm a freshman now
Jan 13 00:56:31 <HevvyMetal> $200-$300 is pretty unrealistic
Jan 13 00:56:32 <AndreYonadam> College
Jan 13 00:56:35 <DadFoundMy> ahh
Jan 13 00:56:51 <HevvyMetal> what does $200 buy in serbia? an apartment for 3 months?
Jan 13 00:56:59 <omegavesko> a guy offered me $50 to make a game from scratch once.. now THAT is lowballing :P
Jan 13 00:57:04 <AndreYonadam> HevvyMetal: Heat lol
Jan 13 00:57:27 <omegavesko> HevvyMetal: uh, the average salary here is like $450
Jan 13 00:57:31 <omegavesko> so just about
Jan 13 00:57:42 <kailoAtWork> is there any way to filter by productflavors without breaking the build???
Jan 13 00:57:43 <DadFoundMy> i lived in china for a little bit. apparently free lance deves make jack shit. its why they all work at huge coorperations
Jan 13 00:57:56 <kailoAtWork> every time I specify a product flavor it generates a different aar, resulting in an app that can't link against it
Jan 13 00:57:57 <groxx> kailoAtWork: filter how?
Jan 13 00:58:02 <kailoAtWork> I don't want to build for 7 platforms
Jan 13 00:58:08 <kailoAtWork> armeabi-v7a is my only platform
Jan 13 00:58:17 <HevvyMetal> so you want to charge half of one months salary for an app that will take 3 months omegavesko ?
Jan 13 00:58:19 <omegavesko> DadFoundMy: freelancers can make a decent amount of money actually, you just have to find clients who actually want to pay
Jan 13 00:58:34 <kailoAtWork> but specifying armv7 { ndk { abiFilter "armeabi-v7a" } } in all of my modules breaks the build
Jan 13 00:58:55 <groxx> :\ dunno, unfortunately.
Jan 13 00:58:59 <omegavesko> HevvyMetal: well I figured it would be an app a novice could knock out in a week :P
Jan 13 00:59:07 <omegavesko> obviously I wouldn't charge $200 for a three month project
Jan 13 00:59:19 <AndreYonadam> I've yet to make anything from software
Jan 13 00:59:19 <AndreYonadam> lol
Jan 13 00:59:26 <AndreYonadam> My intentions arn't making money
Jan 13 00:59:26 <HevvyMetal> what realistic marketable app could a novice knock out in a week tho omegavesko ?
Jan 13 00:59:34 <HevvyMetal> most people i see want real apps for that
Jan 13 00:59:52 <omegavesko> AndreYonadam: I've made like 15€ from flattr
Jan 13 00:59:54 <lasserix> Yo
Jan 13 01:00:09 <omegavesko> and that's from a project of mine that made news on lifehacker/redmondpie and co.
Jan 13 01:00:12 <HevvyMetal> hi lasserix
Jan 13 01:00:20 <lasserix> good morning
Jan 13 01:00:35 <HevvyMetal> i thought you're in OC lasserix it's not mornign here hehe?
Jan 13 01:00:42 <lasserix> heh no its not
Jan 13 01:00:51 <HevvyMetal> its almost uh night time
Jan 13 01:00:59 <lasserix> yep
Jan 13 01:01:06 <lasserix> gota start running again
Jan 13 01:01:18 <HevvyMetal> nice
Jan 13 01:01:50 <lasserix> anyways you could make a PrivateParts App one click photo sharing of your private parts for hooking up
Jan 13 01:01:59 <lasserix> remove the wool of tinder and just sell straight to the meat
Jan 13 01:02:36 <lasserix> can defintly pull it out in week no pun intended ;p
Jan 13 01:05:30 <HevvyMetal> yeah i've thought about various hookup apps lasserix
Jan 13 01:05:43 <HevvyMetal> but still 1 week? with fb integration? but maybe no fb with privateparts
Jan 13 01:05:52 <lasserix> one week sure
Jan 13 01:06:00 <lasserix> there are various cloud services you can prototype
Jan 13 01:06:01 <HevvyMetal> do you use tinder lasserix ?
Jan 13 01:06:09 <lasserix> havent' had the need too
Jan 13 01:06:10 <HevvyMetal> prototype maybe
Jan 13 01:06:14 <lasserix> do have some friends who do
Jan 13 01:06:22 <HevvyMetal> how did it work out for them?
Jan 13 01:06:32 <lasserix> it worked out for them i guess
Jan 13 01:06:35 <lasserix> myspace worked for me ;p
Jan 13 01:06:42 <HevvyMetal> you said you're only 30
Jan 13 01:06:49 <HevvyMetal> how did myspace work for yo in what way/
Jan 13 01:06:55 <lasserix> just networking
Jan 13 01:07:02 <TacticalJoke> pfn:  It does matter.
Jan 13 01:07:18 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: hows the app going?
Jan 13 01:07:37 <TacticalJoke> Just implemented logins.  Going well so far.  :)
Jan 13 01:07:47 <pfn> TacticalJoke, that's what you think, but it really doesn't
Jan 13 01:07:47 <lasserix> without oauth?!/
Jan 13 01:09:18 <TacticalJoke> pfn:  Understanding how RelativeLayout works is pretty important to any Android programmer.
Jan 13 01:09:36 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  Yeah.  Note that I haven't seen a single Android reddit app that uses OAuth2 yet.
Jan 13 01:09:43 <pfn> TacticalJoke, understanding how to use it, not so much how it works
Jan 13 01:09:45 <TacticalJoke> Including the official (AMA) one.
Jan 13 01:10:24 <omegavesko> TacticalJoke: I know I saw one do it
Jan 13 01:10:27 <omegavesko> can't remember which though
Jan 13 01:10:32 <omegavesko> maybe reddit now?
Jan 13 01:10:51 <TacticalJoke> I looked at Reddit Now.  It just shows a dialog for logins.
Jan 13 01:11:03 <lasserix> TacticalJoke: how you handling sensitive data?
Jan 13 01:11:13 <TacticalJoke> lasserix:  At which level?
Jan 13 01:11:20 <lasserix> user login info
Jan 13 01:12:00 <TacticalJoke> The login request goes over SSL/TLS.
Jan 13 01:12:08 <TacticalJoke> The username and password are not stored on the client.
Jan 13 01:12:19 <dcow> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27913366/android-connectedcheck-task-fails-when-run-with-the-build-task-but-not-alone
Jan 13 01:12:20 <TacticalJoke> Only the authorisation cookie is stored (privately).
Jan 13 01:12:36 <lasserix> cool
Jan 13 01:13:30 <TacticalJoke> omegavesko:  Actually, I'm thinking of Reddit News.  I forget how Now does logins.  Hmm.
Jan 13 01:13:57 <groxx> I personally never enter my password into apps like that, but it seems like nearly everyone else in the world does :|
Jan 13 01:14:07 <pfn> there's really not much choice
Jan 13 01:14:28 <pfn> an app can always spoof the look of another app's login screen if it wanted
Jan 13 01:14:43 <groxx> oauth works through a "normal" browser on Android.  most sites + apps just don't integrate it that way.
Jan 13 01:14:59 <pfn> it's a terrible UX to launch a browser to login
Jan 13 01:15:00 <pfn> and return to app
Jan 13 01:15:13 <TacticalJoke> I agree, pfn.  That's part of why I dislike the idea of implementing it.
Jan 13 01:15:15 <groxx> yeah, but it's actually secure, unlike entering passwords into <random app X> :)
Jan 13 01:15:31 <pfn> sure, doesn't make it any less terrible and likely to be implemented
Jan 13 01:15:33 <lasserix> not if its webview 4.3 ;p
Jan 13 01:15:53 <groxx> purely a "omg that's horrible for security" aversion, not a "don't do it" one.  everyone logs in inside apps, it seems.
Jan 13 01:16:01 <groxx> 4.3?
Jan 13 01:16:23 <lasserix> yeah apparently there is a security hole that google won't patch?
Jan 13 01:16:38 <pfn> lasserix, google did patch it, it's called android 4.4
Jan 13 01:16:51 <lasserix> hehe
Jan 13 01:17:02 <lasserix> tru dat
Jan 13 01:17:10 <groxx> I'm guessing that's a "control the app through the browser" security hole, not "app can read browser" one.  the app can always read the browser afaik
Jan 13 01:17:16 <omegavesko> TacticalJoke: i was trying a bunch out recently and I know at least one did it
Jan 13 01:20:41 <drinfernoo> anyone get a chance to look at that RSS snippet up there? lol
Jan 13 01:22:20 <kailoAtWork> I'm using gradle, with one module using android.mk to build c++ sources and link against external .so files.  The module builds fine and exports its compiled java code fine into an aar.  However the built .so file never makes it into the .aar
Jan 13 01:22:28 <kailoAtWork> Any idea on what's needed to fix this?
Jan 13 01:23:26 <groxx> only way I've ever made .so files into an app is to follow the "lib<anything>.so" filename pattern, and put it in the jniLibs folder, which results in them being magically copied into the result.  never done anything else.
Jan 13 01:23:42 <TacticalJoke> drinfernoo:  Which part isn't working?
Jan 13 01:24:01 <TacticalJoke> I'm looking at: https://github.com/drinfernoo/Cuber/blob/17daa7aecdb4a50bb718a2da99f7f6a45f1d35b8/app/src/main/java/com/blango/cuber/fragment/NewsFragment.java
Jan 13 01:24:20 <drinfernoo> TacticalJoke, it doesn't seem to actually be loading any items from the feed
Jan 13 01:25:02 <drinfernoo> it doesn't error, but feed.get items() returns an empty ArrayList
Jan 13 01:25:25 <drinfernoo> feed.getRssItems(), excuse me
Jan 13 01:29:03 <TacticalJoke> drinfernoo:  Hmm, not sure.  I think you should use "return feed;" in doInBackground and then use the parameter in onPostExecute, though.
Jan 13 01:30:19 <TacticalJoke> Though I doubt that'll solve your problem.
Jan 13 01:31:18 <s73v3r> So I have an Adapter with a ViewHolder. The problem I’m running into is that the convertView passed into getView isn’t null, thus isn’t allowing me to create the viewHolder.
Jan 13 01:33:00 <TacticalJoke> s73v3r:  convertView should be null the first few times and non-null most of the time after that.  Is this not happening?
Jan 13 01:33:58 <s73v3r> It’s null the first time, and then after that it’s not
Jan 13 01:34:00 <barbs> s73v3r: if convertView isn't null, you should be able to get its Viewholder via getTag(), assuming you're following the pattern correctly
Jan 13 01:34:06 <barbs> that's normal
Jan 13 01:34:15 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, that's what you want.  :D
Jan 13 01:34:30 <s73v3r> but the return from getTag is null
Jan 13 01:34:38 <TacticalJoke> Then you're not using setTag correctly.
Jan 13 01:34:51 <groxx> s73v3r: RecyclerView or ListView?
Jan 13 01:34:58 <s73v3r> ListView
Jan 13 01:35:08 <TacticalJoke> Could you post the adapter code?
Jan 13 01:35:34 <groxx> ah.  yeah, then you've gotta set it as the tag yourself.
Jan 13 01:36:13 <TacticalJoke> Essentially, if convertView is not null then, if you're doing things right, it will always have a tagged ViewHolder.
Jan 13 01:37:35 <s73v3r> I do have two different types of views. would this affect things?
Jan 13 01:37:57 <HevvyMetal> when i did my listviews and things i dont remember it being this painful
Jan 13 01:38:15 <HevvyMetal> i'm wondering what was different
Jan 13 01:38:39 <TacticalJoke> If you're not returning the correct view type for a position, or the correct view-type count, it would break the recycling at some point.
Jan 13 01:38:57 <HevvyMetal> but thats the new recycler view right?
Jan 13 01:39:18 <lasserix> no
Jan 13 01:39:33 <lasserix> recycler view just abstracts some things, also makes viewholder necessary
Jan 13 01:39:44 <TacticalJoke> He's using ListView.
Jan 13 01:39:58 <drinfernoo> TacticalJoke, I think my onPostExecute might not be getting called
Jan 13 01:40:35 <TacticalJoke> drinfernoo:  Is that [ Log.d("feed", feed.getTitle()); ] statement being executed?
Jan 13 01:40:41 <TacticalJoke> In doInBackground.
Jan 13 01:41:05 <drinfernoo> yup
Jan 13 01:41:17 <drinfernoo> but not the one in onPostExecute
Jan 13 01:41:30 <s73v3r> http://pastebin.com/4eWyTfzG
Jan 13 01:41:34 <HevvyMetal> so what is the problem he's having exactly?
Jan 13 01:41:53 <s73v3r> this is what’s in getView
Jan 13 01:42:21 <lasserix> s73v3r: first do switch on view item type
Jan 13 01:42:24 <lasserix> then check if convert is null
Jan 13 01:42:28 <s73v3r> the problem I’m having is that the very first time getView is called, convertView is null, as it should be. After that, it’s not
Jan 13 01:42:30 <lasserix> for each layout type, inflate if it is null
Jan 13 01:42:33 <HevvyMetal> is there a way to launch 2x ide on windows and share adb or only one can have it?
Jan 13 01:42:35 <lasserix> and set the tag of the references
Jan 13 01:42:42 <lasserix> if its not null, pull the viewholder from the tag
Jan 13 01:42:49 <lasserix> then call present() or whatever you use to display the ds
Jan 13 01:42:57 <lasserix> you dont want it to be null
Jan 13 01:43:39 <HevvyMetal> i rarely use the emu but when i try to i always get Please ensure Intel HAXM is properly installed
Jan 13 01:43:54 <TacticalJoke> drinfernoo:  http://stackoverflow.com/a/11127996
Jan 13 01:43:59 <lasserix> s73v3r: here is an example of how i do it with a header and another view type: http://pastebin.com/G6N5vhv2
Jan 13 01:44:09 <lasserix> not that my viewholder is the class itself
Jan 13 01:45:18 <s73v3r> that’s kinda what I’m doing. Section 0 is a special section that has a different view than the other sections
Jan 13 01:45:41 <HevvyMetal> cool what do you mean by ds lasserix?
Jan 13 01:46:09 <groxx> s73v3r: are you returning 2 from getViewTypeCount ?
Jan 13 01:46:52 <TacticalJoke> s73v3r:  It'd be easier if you posted the entire adapter class.
Jan 13 01:46:55 <lasserix> s73v3r: here's with viewholder instead http://pastebin.com/8ScsBTki
Jan 13 01:47:04 <s73v3r> I wish I could, but I can’t.
Jan 13 01:47:06 <groxx> ah, looks like TacticalJoke has kinda mentioned it too.  nvm, I'll keep ignoring irc :)
Jan 13 01:47:08 <lasserix> s73v3r: dont do it in two types
Jan 13 01:47:12 <lasserix> first check type
Jan 13 01:47:14 <lasserix> then check if null
Jan 13 01:47:19 <lasserix> if null inflate, set tag
Jan 13 01:47:21 <TacticalJoke> It's all good; still looking at that RelativeLayout thing.  :D
Jan 13 01:47:25 <lasserix> if not null pull tag,
Jan 13 01:47:31 <MikeWallaceDev> for those that were around earlier, I think I've found the solution to my Content Provider problem: I will run all of my Content Providers in the same process as my app and use LocalBroadcastManager to ensure that only my Content Providers can send data to my app.
Jan 13 01:47:33 <lasserix> then use the viewholder to set the data from the item elem ents
Jan 13 01:47:52 <lasserix> you can see how in that second link i posted
Jan 13 01:47:59 <lasserix> make sure you viewItemType are consectuve from 0
Jan 13 01:48:34 <TacticalJoke> s73v3r:  Can you at least post getViewTypeCount and getItemViewType?
Jan 13 01:50:26 <TacticalJoke> Your current paste was also too little.  We don't know for sure that you're saying "return convertView;" at the end.
Jan 13 01:50:38 <TacticalJoke> Help us help you.  :p
Jan 13 01:50:41 <s73v3r> I think the issue might be that getViewTypeCount and getItemViewType each act like there’s two types (cell and header), but there’s actually three
Jan 13 01:52:22 <TacticalJoke> s73v3r:  Another thing that doesn't make sense here is that you're defining mInflater only when section != 0.  And yet the section == 0 code uses mInflater.
Jan 13 01:52:29 <TacticalJoke> The code looks kinda confused, to be honest.
Jan 13 01:52:57 <TacticalJoke> In fact, I misread that.  The second mInflater isn't a field, but a local variable.
Jan 13 01:54:30 <s73v3r> that makes very little sense
Jan 13 01:55:21 <lasserix> s73v3r: here i fixed it for you http://pastebin.com/QujCgQrB
Jan 13 01:55:28 <lasserix> you have to add the last few setTexts
Jan 13 01:55:29 <JesusFreke> mInflater is a local variable? priceless
Jan 13 01:55:31 <lasserix> but you should get the idea
Jan 13 01:55:53 <lasserix> get mInlfater once in the consturctor
Jan 13 01:56:07 <lasserix> or just use LayoutInflater.inlfate(context, R.layout..)
Jan 13 01:56:28 <groxx> s73v3r: ^ yeah, lasserix's is a good one.  gotta use two types, as they have different reuse pools.
Jan 13 01:56:29 <s73v3r> I normally am. I don’t know where that second one came from.
Jan 13 01:57:02 <lasserix> s73v3r: did you look at my link? i recoded it for you
Jan 13 01:57:08 <TacticalJoke> LayoutInflater.from(Context) is the neatest way to get a LayoutInflater.
Jan 13 01:57:10 <lasserix> its missing two setText calls and a break
Jan 13 01:57:12 <s73v3r> I saw it. Thank you
Jan 13 01:57:20 <lasserix> but hopefulyl that clears it up for you
Jan 13 01:57:41 <s73v3r> if the very first cell is different from all of the other cells and the headers, would it also need to be set as a viewType?
Jan 13 01:57:47 <lasserix> yes
Jan 13 01:57:53 <lasserix> every distinct layout you inflate it its own type
Jan 13 01:57:55 <TacticalJoke> Or to get a reference to an existing one, I guess.
Jan 13 01:57:56 <lasserix> even if you only ever use it once
Jan 13 01:58:36 <s73v3r> ok thanks. I think i see what the issue is. I’ll take a closer look at lasserix’s paste
Jan 13 01:59:00 <lasserix> i missing vh.accountName.setText vh.accountStatus.setText etc and a break after that
Jan 13 01:59:07 <lasserix> but otherwise that code should work if you just cut and paste
Jan 13 02:00:05 <groxx> we do so many blended view types in lists at work, I ended up making a wrapper for BaseAdapter just to make it easier :|
Jan 13 02:02:07 <drose379> Guys, how come when I click the physical menu button on my device, the menu options look "greyed out" but when I click the new menu button in the top right of the screen, the options look normal?
Jan 13 02:02:52 <TacticalJoke> In both cases the menu shows at the top-right, right?
Jan 13 02:03:24 <drose379> No, when I select the physical menu button, it appears at the bottom
Jan 13 02:03:31 <drose379> Selections greyed
Jan 13 02:04:02 <TacticalJoke> How are you showing the top-right menu button?  Are you using ActionBar?
Jan 13 02:05:00 <drose379> The menu button is in the action bar, yes
Jan 13 02:05:07 <drose379> The activity extends ActionBarActivity
Jan 13 02:05:16 <TacticalJoke> Weird.  I'd expect the hardware menu button to show the top-right menu, not its own menu at the bottom.
Jan 13 02:05:30 <groxx> dunno.  maybe they're trying to be consistent with non-action-bar apps?
Jan 13 02:05:33 <drose379> Yeah, any why would the selections be greyed out
Jan 13 02:05:41 <drose379> and*
Jan 13 02:05:46 <groxx> are they disabled, or are they just grayer than e.g. other apps?
Jan 13 02:06:06 <groxx> I think on some of the phones here it's a fair distance from "black", though they don't look disabled per se
Jan 13 02:06:07 <drose379> Just grey, while when using the new menu buttons, the selctions are black
Jan 13 02:06:29 <TacticalJoke> Which device is that?  Which version of Android?  And what is your minSdkVersion?
Jan 13 02:06:39 <drose379> S4 mini
Jan 13 02:06:43 <drose379> 4.2.2
Jan 13 02:07:04 <TacticalJoke> Oops, I mean "targetSdkVersion".
Jan 13 02:07:20 <drose379> Lowest is gingerbread
Jan 13 02:08:06 <Sniperfox47> Hi!
Jan 13 02:08:16 <JesusFreke> stop that! :p
Jan 13 02:08:27 <Sniperfox47> Anybody know if there's a Google Fit implementation for pebble?
Jan 13 02:08:34 <TacticalJoke> drose379:  How about targetSdkVersion?
Jan 13 02:08:48 <Sniperfox47> JesusFreke: sorry xD didn't figure you old guys would be here too :P
Jan 13 02:08:58 <JesusFreke> Sniperfox47: couldn't resist ;)
Jan 13 02:09:44 <drose379> TacticalJoke dont know
Jan 13 02:09:45 <groxx> Sniperfox47: I don't know, but I did find this, which is pretty epic.  http://pocketnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/smartwatch-lineup-android-wear-pebble-gear-fit-472x314.jpg
Jan 13 02:09:59 <groxx> I think that's the right way to wear watches
Jan 13 02:10:04 <Sniperfox47> Figured this was a better place to ask my pebble question though. Google fit does have an open API doesn't it?
Jan 13 02:10:28 <TacticalJoke> drose379:  Look in build.gradle.
Jan 13 02:10:50 <groxx> Sniperfox47: afaik yeah.  pebble probably needs a companion app on the phone though?  https://developers.google.com/fit/
Jan 13 02:10:53 <Sniperfox47> Groxx: only one of those I have is the pebble xD would never buy the wear watches.
Jan 13 02:11:15 <Sniperfox47> Ah thanks for the link groxx. Guess my googlefu is failing me today xD
Jan 13 02:11:42 <pfn> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=81950
Jan 13 02:11:43 <pfn> oh
Jan 13 02:11:43 <groxx> ah, scroll all the way down on the "get started" page.  list of android API and REST
Jan 13 02:11:48 <pfn> I thought it was something I was doing...
Jan 13 02:11:53 <drose379> TacticalJoke 21
Jan 13 02:12:15 <TacticalJoke> Hmm, weird.  I wouldn't expect what you're seeing at all.
Jan 13 02:12:37 <drose379> That is weird
Jan 13 02:12:46 <TacticalJoke> Any chance you could upload a screenshot of the bottom menu showing?
Jan 13 02:12:58 <drose379> Sure, gonna be a min tho
Jan 13 02:13:21 <drinfernoo> groxx lol classy
Jan 13 02:13:47 <groxx> drinfernoo: ikr?  I should do that.  I'd be the envy of everyone I walk past.
Jan 13 02:14:20 <pfn> damn, why do accessibility services fuck chrome over
Jan 13 02:14:21 <Sniperfox47> Oh... Why are all the cool APIs part of google play services >.>
Jan 13 02:14:50 <pfn> because they are google services
Jan 13 02:14:50 <pfn> duh
Jan 13 02:14:55 <groxx> Sniperfox47: ha, because Google wants lock-in that goes beyond the vendors :)
Jan 13 02:15:06 <pfn> no, it's because the play services interact with google servers
Jan 13 02:15:21 <pfn> other vendors are free to provide their own implementations...
Jan 13 02:15:24 <pfn> amazon does...
Jan 13 02:15:27 <groxx> the rest API is at least not GPS-locked
Jan 13 02:15:39 <Sniperfox47> mobile needs someone to make a good free OS rather than just an open source OS...
Jan 13 02:15:44 <groxx> and that's why nobody bought the Fire Phone, yeah
Jan 13 02:15:53 <pfn> well, that's besides the point
Jan 13 02:16:00 <groxx> I like my dilusions!
Jan 13 02:16:00 <pfn> google provides infrastructure for play services
Jan 13 02:16:07 <pfn> regardless of having a "play services" library
Jan 13 02:16:11 <pfn> you would be using google services anyway
Jan 13 02:16:17 <pfn> if you wanted similar services
Jan 13 02:16:21 <pfn> that, or find your own 3rd party
Jan 13 02:17:10 <Sniperfox47> Is sailfish a free OS? I know it's open source but does it have the same licensing/service issues as android?
Jan 13 02:17:23 <pfn> android is bsd-compatibly licensed
Jan 13 02:17:28 <pfn> there is no licensing issue
Jan 13 02:18:05 <pfn> what you really want is someone to step up and create a cloud services library that is vendor agnostic
Jan 13 02:18:08 <groxx> dunno.  is sailfish actually going to survive though?  and afaik the ubuntu OS thing is still _playing_ at being alive, despite no devices after over a year
Jan 13 02:18:18 <Sniperfox47> ...android != AOSP... AOSP isn't functional enough for me to consider an OD xD
Jan 13 02:18:21 <Sniperfox47> *OS
Jan 13 02:18:22 <pfn> not a vendor agnostic OS
Jan 13 02:18:28 <pfn> aosp is completely functional
Jan 13 02:18:33 <pfn> what crack are you smoking
Jan 13 02:18:48 <pfn> the only thing aosp is missing is google-specific services
Jan 13 02:18:55 <drose379> TacticalJoke http://i.imgur.com/0YBM8ZO.png
Jan 13 02:19:01 <pfn> and that's what you would get out of any "free OS"
Jan 13 02:19:25 <TacticalJoke> Weird.  Are you doing anything strange in the Activity code?
Jan 13 02:19:44 <Sniperfox47> pfn: aosp is missing google services... Which locks it out of most the android software made...
Jan 13 02:19:53 <pfn> but it doesn't
Jan 13 02:20:00 <pfn> most android software made doesn't rely on google services
Jan 13 02:20:08 <drose379> What would be concidered strange?
Jan 13 02:20:08 <MikeWallaceDev> Sniperfox47, Android == AOSP, but it doesn't have drivers for specific hardware.
Jan 13 02:20:11 <TacticalJoke> :D
Jan 13 02:21:18 <Sniperfox47> Groxx: can Ubuntu Mobile or whatever it's called even be considered a Free OS anyways >.> it's definitely a Linux OS, but Canonical is toeing a fine line there.
Jan 13 02:21:47 <groxx> Sniperfox47: eh, dunno.  the amazon store has quite a lot of software on it, and it doesn't have google play services (or a drop-in API replacement).  I dare say "most" apps don't have anything google releated.
Jan 13 02:21:51 <groxx> blah typing
Jan 13 02:22:10 <TacticalJoke> Have you guys ever seen drose379's menu issue before?  http://i.imgur.com/0YBM8ZO.png
Jan 13 02:22:25 <Sniperfox47> MikeWallaceDev: It also lacks any of the google service framework, which as I pointed out earlier makes 3/4 the android apps made behave unexpectedly if they even work at all...
Jan 13 02:22:34 <groxx> Sniperfox47: I think calling it "an OS" is toeing a fine line, since it seems significantly deader than ALL of their competitors.
Jan 13 02:22:45 <MikeWallaceDev> Google Services != Android :)
Jan 13 02:22:51 <groxx> it has some good ideas, but it hasn't moved at all as far as I've seen
Jan 13 02:23:20 <groxx> TacticalJoke drose379 nope.  probably there's a style for it somewhere?  could just be the device's default...
Jan 13 02:24:08 <Sniperfox47> MikeWallaceDev: can you honestly say that, amazon products notwithstanding, the google play services aren't a dependency for the vast majority of the android ecosystem?
Jan 13 02:24:24 <TacticalJoke> I thought Android either showed an ActionBar overflow or showed a bottom-right menu.  Didn't think it'd ever allow both.  Hmm.
Jan 13 02:24:27 <groxx> Sniperfox47: probably, yes.  hell of a lot of stuff in china, for instance.
Jan 13 02:24:46 <MikeWallaceDev> yep, I was just going to mention China
Jan 13 02:25:00 <Sniperfox47> groxx: China isn't real. Its something google drew up to confuse people :P
Jan 13 02:25:06 <TacticalJoke> drose379:  If it's any consolation, this probably won't happen on many devices.  Just some Samsungs, I guess.
Jan 13 02:25:10 <groxx> about the only thing that's really widely applicable is a push notification thing.  everything else gplay is only really useful to fairly specific apps.
Jan 13 02:25:16 <drose379> Thanks TacticalJoke
Jan 13 02:25:50 <TacticalJoke> If you want to post the Activity code, I'll look, in case something bizarre is going on code-wise.  But I can't imagine what.
Jan 13 02:26:11 <groxx> I think I've seen footer-action-bar-menus like that, if that was the question.  not sure what the rule is for displaying it that way though (specific support lib version?  target sdk?  device-specific?  dunno)
Jan 13 02:26:34 <Sniperfox47> Meh. I still think calling the android ecosystem "free" is ridiculous... But then again I'm from the group that has issues with freedom on Ubuntu so what do I know xD
Jan 13 02:26:50 <groxx> does firefox OS count mayb?
Jan 13 02:26:51 <TacticalJoke> GNU plus linux!
Jan 13 02:27:18 <drose379> TacticalJoke Ill post the code tomorrow, its only a few line. Im out for the night though
Jan 13 02:27:27 <TacticalJoke> K.
Jan 13 02:27:32 <drose379> TacticalJoke thanks for the help
Jan 13 02:27:47 <TacticalJoke> Have fun.  :)
Jan 13 02:27:50 <MikeWallaceDev> Sniperfox47, everything is free.  Except the things that aren't.
Jan 13 02:28:10 <pfn> Sniperfox47, it's funny how you say you want to not use google services but at the same time you do
Jan 13 02:28:12 <TacticalJoke> The best things in life are free.
Jan 13 02:28:15 <Sniperfox47> Groxx: definitely does since it's totally webtech based. But can you really call it an OS? Isn't it basically just a glorified web browser? It's definitely not what I'd call a good OS though.
Jan 13 02:28:24 <pfn> and yes, google play services aren't a dependency for the vast majority of the android ecosystem
Jan 13 02:28:25 <TacticalJoke> If we are to believe Janet.
Jan 13 02:28:28 <Sniperfox47> pfn: how so?
Jan 13 02:28:37 <pfn> Sniperfox47, you say you don't want google, yet you want to use apps that use google
Jan 13 02:28:41 <groxx> it's pretty OS-y imo.  have you tried it?
Jan 13 02:28:44 <pfn> that's an ugly dichotomy you got going there
Jan 13 02:28:56 <Sniperfox47> pfn: do I?
Jan 13 02:29:05 <t0th_-_> hi
Jan 13 02:29:09 <groxx> OH.  Sniperfox47 have you seen this? https://github.com/microg
Jan 13 02:29:11 <pfn> Sniperfox47, yes, you said so, you said you want to use apps that make use of google play services
Jan 13 02:29:20 <t0th_-_> can i implement ConnectionCallbacks in fragment?
Jan 13 02:29:36 <t0th_-_> i implement but the method onConnected is not called
Jan 13 02:29:44 <Sniperfox47> I never said I want to, pfn... I said they make up a large majority of the apps in the android ecosystem...
Jan 13 02:29:51 <pfn> they don't
Jan 13 02:29:54 <s73v3r> Sniperfox47: How does FirefoxOS not count? Is it not managing the hardware?
Jan 13 02:30:03 <s73v3r> What do you consider being a “real” OS?
Jan 13 02:30:24 <TacticalJoke> I'm gonna guess that drose's issue was Samsung showing us why we can't have nice things.  Or v7 issues.  Or both, I guess.
Jan 13 02:31:22 <groxx> when in doubt, I blame Samsung.  usually it turns out correct in the end.
Jan 13 02:31:25 <Sniperfox47> s73v3r: managing the hardware is more a kernels job than an OSes. But I get your point. It just doesn't seem really robust. It feels like they just took the Linux kernel, ran a web browser in it, and went "Here's our OS!"
Jan 13 02:31:36 <MikeWallaceDev> #BlameSamsung
Jan 13 02:31:49 <s73v3r> a kernel is part of the OS.
Jan 13 02:31:52 <TacticalJoke> Samsung tries to be so helpful.  But they end up being a pain.
Jan 13 02:32:00 <Sniperfox47> But it is not an OS itself...
Jan 13 02:32:02 <MikeWallaceDev> how is the kernel NOT the OS?
Jan 13 02:32:09 <Sniperfox47> Fedora is an OS. Linux is not.
Jan 13 02:32:17 <MikeWallaceDev> disagree.
Jan 13 02:32:20 <TacticalJoke> Even the fact that their Back key is/was on the wrong side is a problem.
Jan 13 02:32:28 <pfn> hate samsung
Jan 13 02:32:36 <pfn> I have 2 motorola phones as main phones these days
Jan 13 02:32:48 <pfn> so satisfying being on a near-pure android experience
Jan 13 02:33:03 <Sniperfox47> A kernel is a part of an OS. It's not an OS in and of itself. Without supporting apps a kernel is like a spine without a heart or guts or skin.
Jan 13 02:33:08 <t0th_-_> any?
Jan 13 02:33:17 <TacticalJoke> I generally prefer stock, but I must admit that I like Sony's customisations.  :)
Jan 13 02:34:10 <MikeWallaceDev> Sniperfox47, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system
Jan 13 02:35:13 <Sniperfox47> The fact Wikipedia says it doesn't make it true Mike... Linux is a kernel. GNU/Linux is an OS.
Jan 13 02:35:29 <ReScO> I have a question, i'm using the Google Play Licensing lib, but after setting the Test Response to RESPOND_NORMALLY it doesn't show the Unlicensed popup or change to Licensed status
Jan 13 02:35:34 <MikeWallaceDev> Agreed on the Wiki part :)
Jan 13 02:35:55 <TacticalJoke> Sniperfox47:  Hey, I was right about the "GNU plus Linux" thing.  :D
Jan 13 02:35:57 <ReScO> Why does that happen?
Jan 13 02:36:08 <TacticalJoke> Sniperfox47:  Did you see RMS's latest drama?
Jan 13 02:36:27 <Sniperfox47> TacticalJoke: no I haven't
Jan 13 02:36:47 <TacticalJoke> Emacs drama: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2rtumb/current_emacs_maintainer_disagrees_with_rms_id_be/
Jan 13 02:41:34 <Sniperfox47> Eh. I was never really on board with GNU's image of freedom in the first place... in my (not so humble) opinion it's not really freedom to tell a jerk he can't be a jerk with your software just because you weren't a jerk with it xD
Jan 13 02:43:03 <Sniperfox47> It's one of the reasons I try to avoid full GPL
Jan 13 02:43:34 <TacticalJoke> Yeah, their definition of 'freedom' is quite restrictive in some ways.
Jan 13 02:43:51 <barbs> it's annoying when a github project has too many forks and you can't view any of them :(
Jan 13 02:44:21 <barbs> e.g. https://github.com/JakeWharton/Android-ViewPagerIndicator/network
Jan 13 02:44:54 <Sniperfox47> Lol xD
Jan 13 02:45:05 <TacticalJoke> Too many forks; too few knives.
Jan 13 02:45:29 <TacticalJoke> Maybe that's why he made that knife-related library.  :)
Jan 13 02:45:33 <barbs> that'd be even funnier if the project was Butterknife :P
Jan 13 02:45:36 <Sniperfox47> How about spoons? A good spooning makes every project better?
Jan 13 02:45:36 <TacticalJoke> :D
Jan 13 02:45:36 <barbs> haha
Jan 13 02:46:44 <JakeWharton> I wrote something called Spoon as well
Jan 13 02:46:56 <s73v3r> What haven’t you written
Jan 13 02:47:01 <TacticalJoke> hah
Jan 13 02:47:08 <barbs> lol
Jan 13 02:47:26 <ac_slater_> hey guys. I downloaded the July 02 ADT package. I added the Native tools and added Native support on the project. The issues is, ADT wont generate NDK include paths for me. When I installed the ADT tools manually it worked. But the July release is working for other things (ie - this is a mess)
Jan 13 02:49:09 <JesusFreke> JakeWharton: sounds like you missed a great opportunity to use "Spork"
Jan 13 02:49:14 <TacticalJoke> ac_slater_:  Have you tried downloading the latest Eclipse and installing ADT?  I know that the ADT bundle, at least the last time I tried it, had weird bugs and inconsistencies relating to Java development.  Maybe there are issues with NDK stuff too?
Jan 13 02:49:38 <TacticalJoke> (I've never done NDK development, so I don't know for sure.)
Jan 13 02:50:19 <ac_slater_> TacticalJoke: yup. Luna + ADT 23.x is what I wanted to work with. There is a bug with CDT 8.3 ... so c headers wont get resolved. Like I said, A mess
Jan 13 02:50:30 <TacticalJoke> Ah, okay.
Jan 13 02:51:15 <ac_slater_> TacticalJoke: thanks for trying mate
Jan 13 02:51:36 <ac_slater_> and android studio would be my #1 choice ... but adb uploading takes ~3 minutes each time .. I cant deal with that
Jan 13 02:51:49 <HevvyMetal> what os are you on ac_slater_ ?
Jan 13 02:51:59 <HevvyMetal> adb uploading shouldnt be different but gradle builds are slow on AS
Jan 13 02:51:59 <TacticalJoke> Does Android Studio even support NDK?  I thought Eclipse was the go-to guy for that.
Jan 13 02:52:03 <HevvyMetal> AS does not support NDK
Jan 13 02:52:21 <HevvyMetal> how and if they will fix that I dunno
Jan 13 02:53:37 <Sniperfox47> Anybody over here hear of anything recent about Xposed's progress? Asked on #android but nobody over there knew anything.
Jan 13 02:54:35 <groxx> I haven't heard anything, sadly
Jan 13 02:54:37 <TacticalJoke> ac_slater_:  If nobody here knows, maybe someone on /r/androiddev will.  Or SO, I guess.
Jan 13 02:55:27 <Sniperfox47> Drats. Last I heard the Dev was having trouble with SEL but didn't want to go full permissive. Haven't heard anything since..
Jan 13 02:55:33 <barbs> maybe now that Jetbrains have got a decent C/C++ IDE happening they'll be able to take some of that and put it in AS
Jan 13 02:57:19 <HevvyMetal> that would be cool barbs
Jan 13 02:59:45 <TacticalJoke> So the documentation talks of a "layout pass" and a "measure pass" relating to a ViewGroup laying out its children.  But it seems that either pass could, in practice, actually be two passes in one, right?  For example, the measure pass might measure all children -- and then go back and measure (some of) them again.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 13 02:59:59 2015