**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 04 02:59:58 2015 Apr 04 03:01:04 Whose heard of Postgres Apr 04 03:01:14 never heard of it Apr 04 03:01:16 :P Apr 04 03:01:18 Or PostgreSQL Apr 04 03:01:25 Dude, I just met the guy who created it Apr 04 03:02:01 momjian ? Apr 04 03:02:16 Stonebraker Apr 04 03:02:31 next time, ask why Postgres can't do `select count(*), some_other_column from table`, when MySQL can. Postgres people _love_ that. Apr 04 03:02:55 I will do that Apr 04 03:03:24 * groxx prepares nuclear winter bunker Apr 04 03:03:46 How come onSwipeTouchListener does not fire unless OnClickListener onClick method is overridden Apr 04 03:04:28 weird. dunno. magic? alcohol? Apr 04 03:04:45 Not a clue Apr 04 03:05:09 So who wrote the code to OnSwipeTouchListener? Apr 04 03:05:11 Google devs? Apr 04 03:05:21 <_genuser_> hey d00dz Apr 04 03:05:31 _genuser_ how you doing Apr 04 03:05:38 <_genuser_> fine, how's stuff? Apr 04 03:05:57 Not bad, you? Apr 04 03:06:34 hi Apr 04 03:06:38 <_genuser_> just working on a music track. trying to finish a drawing I started, trying to finish the cache component of my app.... Apr 04 03:06:44 <_genuser_> so basically... distracted. Apr 04 03:07:02 What app you working on again? I think we talked about this a while back but im not remembering it right now Apr 04 03:07:29 _genuser_: have some more distractions: https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games Apr 04 03:07:42 <_genuser_> drose379: this one's just caching images from multiple sources. some from over the internet, some from local dbs, some pulled out of binary files containing possible expense reports, etc.. Apr 04 03:07:51 i' m using new toolbar. how can i show toolbar inside fragments? Apr 04 03:08:00 <_genuser_> groxx: somebody said games? I'm checking it out!!! Apr 04 03:08:20 devuser have the xml layout for the fragment include the toolbar Apr 04 03:08:33 drose379, of course Apr 04 03:08:42 Is that not working? Apr 04 03:09:16 <_genuser_> groxx: so you have to install this emdosbox thingie then? Apr 04 03:09:42 <_genuser_> groxx: altho.... wlfenstein 3d!!! Apr 04 03:09:48 _genuser_: nope. "em" for "emscripten" => runs in your browser Apr 04 03:10:22 <_genuser_> groxx: just read that part. an in-browser emulator. how cool is that! Apr 04 03:10:43 there are some blog posts about the project. interesting stuff. also distracting :) Apr 04 03:11:11 <_genuser_> alright nobody distract me. wolfenstein 3d!!!! Apr 04 03:12:18 drose379, it works Apr 04 03:12:34 Good devuser Apr 04 03:12:39 devuser Apr 04 03:12:43 oops Apr 04 03:14:31 <_genuser_> groxx: were graphics really this bad in early 90s? Apr 04 03:14:43 nostalgia adds polygons Apr 04 03:15:11 * groxx thinks Descent 2 is beautiful still Apr 04 03:15:34 <_genuser_> man, I think maximizing it to 1920x1080 is also gonna make it even more pixelated. vs. the old resolutions. Apr 04 03:15:44 <_genuser_> groxx: I remember descent. it was pretty cool. Apr 04 03:16:27 one of these days I'll get a decent joystick that isn't too small for my apparently-freakishly-large-(or-something)-hands Apr 04 03:16:41 and I'll just disappear from the internet for like a week, and beat all descent / freespace games. Apr 04 03:17:01 <_genuser_> groxx: I have extreme 3d pro by logitech. it was 30-40 bucks and plays pretty nice. it's a nice fullsize oystick. Apr 04 03:17:58 _genuser_: one of my friends has this. I don't think I can go back. http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/hotas-warthog/ Apr 04 03:19:56 <_genuser_> groxx: is that for a light sim? Apr 04 03:19:59 <_genuser_> *flight Apr 04 03:20:29 by design, I think so, yeah. but it's also just a really really nice joystick + throttle Apr 04 03:20:30 <_genuser_> but the price is insane. but it looks like it would be tons of fun. Apr 04 03:24:26 <_genuser_> dang, those pixelated screens look soo good. Apr 04 03:35:08 distraction: success :D Apr 04 03:37:24 groxx, _genuser_: you saw the kickstarter for a new descent? :D Apr 04 03:39:56 I'm drooling over the thought of descent in VR Apr 04 03:40:01 Descent the 3D game of old? Apr 04 03:40:19 yep Apr 04 03:40:27 Sweet Apr 04 03:40:36 I have great puke memories from the original Descent Apr 04 03:40:56 descent + vr = 10x puke Apr 04 03:41:06 it'll be great! :p Apr 04 03:42:13 JesusFreke CedricBeust_ you will be glad to know http://www.pcworld.com/article/2894744/another-classic-pc-game-rebooted-descent-sequel-appears-on-kickstarter.html Apr 04 03:42:35 ... like I just said :p Apr 04 03:42:44 oh heh Apr 04 03:42:49 srry Apr 04 03:42:56 have to read more :D Apr 04 03:42:59 haha Apr 04 03:46:35 groxx this is really tricky; it looks like if you tracker.setScreen(X) in some activity, ... and then in some other place in your app, like a service, send an event, it will have the screen because its just a bug huge bag of mutable state Apr 04 03:46:48 this is like the worst design evar Apr 04 03:48:12 can I have two providers with same authority string?? Apr 04 03:48:25 no Apr 04 03:49:19 there can be only 1. fight! Apr 04 03:54:01 jaja :) Apr 04 03:58:28 JesusFreke: I did not see that one... checking it out now :) Apr 04 03:59:46 g00s: that does sound pretty awful :/ Apr 04 04:29:23 huh, it almost sounds like you need a separate tracker for events outside the UI Apr 04 04:29:30 fuckkk i realized i released my app at an aawful time :/ Apr 04 04:29:38 "GA thinks that events are caused after a screen view and so it pushes the GA event with a screen name "(not set)". Since services ran in the background a lot of times, it ended up corrupting the various stats." Apr 04 04:30:01 it's an agenda book really only used by high school students. i released it on a thursday, which is spring break, and most people have off friday for good friday Apr 04 04:30:15 so at best people will begin to use it monday, but i fear by then they will have forgot about it Apr 04 04:30:38 DadFoundMy how many downloads so far ? Apr 04 04:30:45 ~125 Apr 04 04:31:05 Hey guys im trying to create a backstack for my app and im following this code from Android dev website Apr 04 04:31:05 http://pastie.org/10072985 Apr 04 04:31:16 But I dont understand line 9 Apr 04 04:31:24 No where in the example is "upIntent" defined Apr 04 04:31:48 im honestly really happy with the 125 downloads since its my first app, but i fear i will not hold the users since i released it in a time without school Apr 04 04:32:07 DadFoundMy whats your app called? Apr 04 04:32:13 AutoAgend Apr 04 04:32:18 whats it do Apr 04 04:32:43 its a student homework planner with a couple extra cool features Apr 04 04:32:52 like it will automaticly sort an assignment intot he correct class Apr 04 04:33:28 Looks nice Apr 04 04:33:31 DadFoundMy: I saw your post in /r/androiddev and checked out your app - looks pretty useful! Apr 04 04:33:42 If I weren't nearly done with school I'd use it Apr 04 04:34:00 t0astt did you see the code I posted above? Apr 04 04:34:17 DadFoundMy says 1 - 5, not 125 lol Apr 04 04:34:18 drose379 - no. Would you like me to take a look? Apr 04 04:34:25 haha thanks. I was shooting for like 30 downloads and 3-4 reviews so im happy with it Apr 04 04:34:36 Well I was saying that im trying to add a backstack to my app, so the user can go to the previous activity Apr 04 04:34:43 g00s: it also should say 17 downloads, the play store listing just hasnt updated Apr 04 04:34:45 ah Apr 04 04:34:47 And im following android dev website example code here http://pastie.org/10072985 Apr 04 04:34:47 sure Apr 04 04:34:55 But I dont understand line 9 Apr 04 04:35:00 g00s: 17 reviews Apr 04 04:35:44 Toast do I have to get the parent activity, create an intent for it, and then add it on line 9? Apr 04 04:36:02 hey Apr 04 04:36:12 why does WebView use AbsoluteLayout still?? Apr 04 04:36:23 deprecated in API 3 Apr 04 04:36:49 any thoughts on that? Apr 04 04:36:55 drose379: I'm not exactly sure - I haven't worked with this before. I can make a guess, though. I think it may be allowing the following activity to add the previously encapsulating activity (DetailsActivity) to the backstack Apr 04 04:37:13 Right yeah I agree with that, but I dont know what to put in there? Apr 04 04:37:18 An intent for the parent activity? Apr 04 04:37:20 groxx may know, if he's here (are you groxx?). He helped me out with backstack stuff awhile back Apr 04 04:37:28 Ah, on line 6? Apr 04 04:37:30 or 9 Apr 04 04:37:37 pendingintents? Apr 04 04:37:40 yeah 9 Apr 04 04:37:42 really with notifications Apr 04 04:38:00 ayyyy yay yayyyy... aight im out Apr 04 04:38:01 MartialLaw I just wanna create a feature when a user can swipe to the right on the screen and go back Apr 04 04:38:09 to the previous activity Apr 04 04:38:10 drose379: Hmm ok. I would assume whatever would be "up" in the backstack? Apr 04 04:38:18 Maybe an intent to the current activity? Apr 04 04:38:22 hm let me think Apr 04 04:38:48 isn't that pretty straightforward? Apr 04 04:39:00 Would detailsActivity go into line 9? Apr 04 04:39:22 so you have an activity... ok i swipe right.. you want to to go to the previous activity? Apr 04 04:39:40 is that what you are saying? Apr 04 04:39:41 Yes Apr 04 04:39:43 Yes Apr 04 04:40:15 isn't that pretty straightforward? Apr 04 04:40:27 what have you tried? Apr 04 04:40:43 Im trying to start this activity where I need to go back with a backstack Apr 04 04:40:53 then calling the parent intent when the user swipes right Apr 04 04:41:00 Am I doing it the correct way? Apr 04 04:41:23 well.. the backstack Apr 04 04:42:03 I just need to be able to call the parent from the activity Apr 04 04:42:03 do activities stay on the backstack? Apr 04 04:42:09 No Apr 04 04:42:12 the parent of what? Apr 04 04:42:21 The parent of the activity I am calling Apr 04 04:42:39 i think you are confusing yourself here Apr 04 04:42:49 are you using fragments? Apr 04 04:43:20 figure when a user swipes right... then make an intent Apr 04 04:43:25 activities don't have parents Apr 04 04:43:39 Why do I have to declare a parent in the manifest? Apr 04 04:43:54 show me your code Apr 04 04:44:00 what are you trying? Apr 04 04:44:24 I havent tried anything yet, do you think I should keep it as simple as just creating an intent for the activity I want to go to? Apr 04 04:44:31 ok so you have an activity.... you go to another activity via an intent, obv. then you want the user to swipe right to go back to the previous activity Apr 04 04:44:39 yeah? Apr 04 04:44:43 I was reading up on this: http://developer.android.com/training/implementing-navigation/temporal.html Apr 04 04:46:03 yeah what you should do in your case... if your starting a new activity and want to go back to the "previous" activity... is just create a new intent. otherwise you will bog yourself down in stuff that is overly complex and in the end accomplishes the same thing Apr 04 04:46:33 providing proper "up navigation" describes what i just said.. no stacks Apr 04 04:46:34 Do you think the backstack is a good thing to learn? Apr 04 04:46:59 Ok Apr 04 04:47:17 i think everything is good to learn if you want to be a developer so yes the backstack is crucial but not in the case your talking about Apr 04 04:47:29 Ok, thanksfor the help Apr 04 04:47:54 use the savedinstancestate function and bundles to pass data if needed but your overthinking your problem..... that is if i am understanding your problem correctly Apr 04 04:48:15 Yeah you are, I was overthinking it Apr 04 04:48:41 anyway i have to go... someone else here can probably give you a more overly complex but to-the-same-end solution but KISS.. lol really.. Apr 04 04:48:59 Sounds good to me Apr 04 04:49:02 Thanks again! Apr 04 04:49:06 alright man best of luck maybe we'll talk again soon. take it easy Apr 04 04:49:26 np... keep on developing duude. goodnight. late here on the East Coast Apr 04 04:51:06 bah - it's not even 1am yet Apr 04 04:51:26 hahah Apr 04 04:51:32 12:51 for you? Apr 04 04:51:44 heh - yah :) Apr 04 04:51:56 im an east coast guy on vacation in colardo so its only 11 here :D Apr 04 04:52:12 so DadFoundMy that was your first app? Apr 04 04:55:05 drose379: yup Apr 04 04:55:34 Very cool, when did you start android dev Apr 04 04:56:01 ive tried a couple times in the past but this was the only time i succeeded, i started this attempt about 2 months ago Apr 04 04:56:12 Interesting Apr 04 04:56:18 Why did you fail the past few times? Apr 04 04:56:56 well the first time was in my intro to computer science class. The teaceher tried teaching us the android sdk without teaching objects, interfaces, nothing like that Apr 04 04:57:17 he just old us what to do, not really how to do it. not a single person learned the sdk lol Apr 04 04:57:19 So you tried program android without knowing java? Apr 04 04:57:50 drose379: well we knew basic java, but not nearly enough to fully understand java Apr 04 04:58:03 Shit haha that can be an issue, yeah Apr 04 04:58:45 the same teacher is teaching a mobile app course next year with zero prerequisite. most kids going in will have never programmed ever lol. its going to fail hardd Apr 04 04:59:13 the next i tried was after i fully taught myself java. i tried with some tutorials and videos but it never really "clicked" Apr 04 04:59:25 Yeah, thats happend to me before Apr 04 04:59:28 It has to click Apr 04 04:59:37 Or else it just doesnt work Apr 04 05:00:10 then i started the coursera, but never finished. and finally i read the first few chapters of the the Big Nerd Ranch book and understood the basics. From there i just started coding and when i encoutnered something i wanted just searched for the best way to do it Apr 04 05:00:26 Right, cool Apr 04 05:00:27 now everything is "clicked" and i understand android fairly well Apr 04 05:00:33 Are you a college student? Apr 04 05:00:37 high school Apr 04 05:00:39 Do you have the code for that app on github? Apr 04 05:00:54 Oh your HS has a comp sci course? Apr 04 05:01:00 drose379: https://github.com/DylanRedfield/AutoAgend Apr 04 05:01:07 drose379: yeah but the teacher is kinda meh Apr 04 05:01:21 Kinda cool still Apr 04 05:01:26 Youre from the east coast you said? Apr 04 05:01:29 im in AP right now, but everything ive learned is from books Apr 04 05:01:34 yeah new jersey Apr 04 05:01:53 Sweet, what year are you Apr 04 05:02:00 a junior Apr 04 05:02:20 Cool, im actually a senior hahah Apr 04 05:02:31 nice, you american? Apr 04 05:02:46 Yes Apr 04 05:02:53 what state? Apr 04 05:03:15 NH Apr 04 05:03:29 ah nice Apr 04 05:03:43 Well congrats on the app Apr 04 05:03:53 Looks really nice, you got anything new in mind? Apr 04 05:03:56 thanks, have you finished/started working on anything? Apr 04 05:04:07 drose379: yeah me and a friend are about to start a game Apr 04 05:04:24 dont want to delve too far into the details, but i actually think it could be something Apr 04 05:04:34 Sweet, yeah im working on a project now Apr 04 05:05:03 nice. how long have you been coding for/ Apr 04 05:05:03 ? Apr 04 05:05:15 Umm a little over a year Apr 04 05:09:57 capella does FF use google analytics, or some kind of analytics ? Apr 04 05:10:23 crashalytics ... or, something ... haven't worked with it Apr 04 05:10:39 ok for crashes but - what about events, flow, etc Apr 04 05:11:05 ooh - probably their own via telemetry Apr 04 05:11:21 Yah, "Soccorro" Apr 04 05:11:24 iirc Apr 04 05:11:56 gah, so frustrated ! tried tracking events in a service, and the state get all effed up Apr 04 05:12:01 oh, that's the crash stuff https://wiki.mozilla.org/Socorro Apr 04 05:12:03 because GA confuses the session i think Apr 04 05:12:22 GA seems like a web product just bolted onto android, its simply awful Apr 04 05:13:09 so i guess i will need one tracker for the UI, and another one for the service omg Apr 04 05:14:04 ah, https://wiki.mozilla.org/Telemetry/FAQ Apr 04 05:15:29 capella about:telemetry is cool Apr 04 05:17:00 I just found about:permissions :D Apr 04 05:17:39 i keep trying googling versions of "google analytics android service tracker" but come up empty handed Apr 04 05:17:57 keep pulling up stuff about Play *Services* Apr 04 05:18:18 amazing how bad organic search is in 2015, thought we would be using the semabtic web by now Apr 04 05:23:00 JakeWharton do you have any recommendations for analytics ... heeeellllppppp Apr 04 05:23:07 no Apr 04 05:23:28 oh man, i'm doomed now Apr 04 05:23:50 Not a lot of options are there... Google Play, Flurry, Crashlytics... anything else? Apr 04 05:24:14 isn't Crashylytics just for Crashes ? Apr 04 05:24:51 Yeah sounds like it, never used them Apr 04 05:25:17 g00s: why dont you just make apps that dont crash? /s Apr 04 05:25:19 Mixpanel Apr 04 05:25:36 Yeah I used Mixpanel, and Datadogs too Apr 04 05:26:27 JakeWharton ah thanks. i was looking at that and apselar also, i think if you are experienced in this field (analytics), and you know what you want - like cohort analysis - its easier to pick them apart. i'm just getting beaten to a bloody pulp on GAv4 though Apr 04 05:27:35 GAV4 doesn't really seems to jive well with the lifecycles of android components - screen views are like page views, but what is a page view in a app with multiple fragments, services, background operation, etc Apr 04 05:28:18 * g00s mosies on to mixpanel website Apr 04 05:32:40 <_genuser_> groxx: I blamez U!!! Apr 04 05:33:26 CedricBeust did you use datadogs for mobile analytics? it seems like server stats Apr 04 05:34:01 Yes it was server, we used mixpanel for some client side stuff that can't be tracked on the server (GUI clicks, ...) Apr 04 05:34:27 <_genuser_> oooh datadogs. who let's the dogs out.... Apr 04 05:34:42 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: do you have a preferred lib or do you go with client's needs , etc. etc. Apr 04 05:35:02 No preferences Apr 04 05:36:31 <_genuser_> so what's the main lib you use for tracking runtime crashes, etc? Apr 04 05:36:55 <_genuser_> my brother's work place used to use flurry and they moved to crashlytics recently and he said it has much more detailed analysis. that's all I know on teh subject. Apr 04 05:37:04 <_genuser_> always eager to learn more interesting good stuff. Apr 04 05:45:43 Hey guys I have a somewhat interesting bug... I am using SwipeRefreshLayout and I am finding that on a "yet-to-be-determined-condition" the layout will refresh on a tap, not a swipe. This means any tap on the layout will invoke a refresh. Any ideas what could be causing this? I've even tried setting an adapter beforehand and no luck. It seems like it only works correctly when there is actual data present. Apr 04 05:50:06 thats weird, there should be a threshold the user must drag to actually trigger Apr 04 05:50:13 yeah Apr 04 05:50:16 It's got my perplexed Apr 04 05:52:13 I really don't want to try a different library/layout as my app is due on the 9th Apr 04 05:52:16 end of this contest Apr 04 05:52:24 I'd rather fix the bug... but idk if that's going to be possible Apr 04 06:01:36 g00s: figured it out Apr 04 06:01:46 ah nice Apr 04 06:02:03 what was it ? Apr 04 06:02:06 So by default I had my recyclerview set to a visibility of "gone" UNTIL the results that got populated into it had a size > 0 Apr 04 06:02:20 so I changed the visibility flags up a bit Apr 04 06:02:28 same appearance as before but no bugs :) Apr 04 06:03:16 hmmmm Apr 04 06:03:41 is there a way to remove an element from an ArrayAdapter but not from the array? Apr 04 06:06:09 no Apr 04 06:06:22 that would defeat the point a bit Apr 04 06:07:39 JakeWharton: well I have an arraylist holding a custom object. One of the instance variables of the object is a boolean, and if the boolean is set to false i dont want it to be shown in the listview. is the only way to accomplish this by creating a second arraylist? Apr 04 06:08:16 maybe i can set convertView vissiblity in the getView Apr 04 06:09:10 that is not wise Apr 04 06:09:18 hm, how would you do it? Apr 04 06:10:23 looks like ArrayAdapter has some kind of filter mechanism Apr 04 06:10:29 i haven't used an ArrayAdapter in many years Apr 04 06:11:05 i see why you say that isnt wise. i tried implmenting it, and it just shows the view as blank but it is still there :/ Apr 04 06:11:07 doesn't look helpful Apr 04 06:11:18 people use arrayadapter? Apr 04 06:11:36 how else do you make lists? Apr 04 06:11:44 BaseAdapter Apr 04 06:12:03 hmm ill look into it, whats the main difference? Apr 04 06:12:14 you implement things yourself Apr 04 06:12:24 it's like 4 methods though Apr 04 06:12:27 also, listviews are so 2009 :) Apr 04 06:13:18 JakeWharton: seems like baseadapter would totally fix my problem, i wonder how long it would take to convert my program Apr 04 06:13:36 i would like to push this update by monday but i dont think thats going to happen Apr 04 06:18:05 go-mtpfs seems to be working pretty well Apr 04 06:18:13 the older mtpfs implementation was seriously bugged for me Apr 04 06:20:46 DadFoundMy BaseAdapter is actually easier :| Apr 04 06:20:56 look in ApiDemos, there has to be 10 examples Apr 04 06:21:05 oh no Apr 04 06:21:32 if i change my database all my users will lose there current data right? Apr 04 06:21:44 fuck Apr 04 06:21:57 not if you implement SqliteDatabaseHelper.onUpgradle or whatever Apr 04 06:21:57 well there goes my solution :/ Apr 04 06:22:10 oh maybe i can try that Apr 04 06:22:19 look at iosched's for an example Apr 04 06:22:35 Most db schema changes should be backward compatible so upgrade should be trivial to implement Apr 04 06:22:40 i hate that too :| i hate messing with the schema Apr 04 06:22:57 i haaaattteee working with my db just because i barely understands how it works lol Apr 04 06:23:02 CedricBeust yeah but sqlite alter table is very wimpy Apr 04 06:23:24 Hasn't been my experience Apr 04 06:24:12 basicly i have a arraylist of objects. If one of the values in the object is false i dont want it to show in the main listview, but i want to instead show it in a second one Apr 04 06:24:19 "Only the RENAME TABLE and ADD COLUMN variants of the ALTER TABLE command are supported." Apr 04 06:24:19 sounds like baseadapter would be great for this Apr 04 06:24:31 plan ahead :( Apr 04 06:24:49 yeah i didnt do that very well with this app apparently :/ Apr 04 06:25:20 i know one solution could to be just use 2 arraylists in each of the acitivties, but i think it is a sloppy solution, and it has it's issues Apr 04 06:25:47 <_genuser_> how could using tons of arraylists be bad? Apr 04 06:25:49 <_genuser_> it's java... Apr 04 06:26:05 <_genuser_> if you're using java, you're already saying goodbye to good programming. Apr 04 06:26:19 _genuser_: What does that even mean? Apr 04 06:26:28 lol Apr 04 06:26:29 _genuser_: well it has its issues, like if i want to set that boolean for list to list it will have different spot Apr 04 06:26:41 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: trying to sound snooty here. Apr 04 06:26:48 _genuser_: it worked :D Apr 04 06:26:52 _genuser that's something I'd expect someone to say about PHP lol Apr 04 06:26:53 <_genuser_> before someone else jumps in c++ is superior!! Apr 04 06:27:05 Yeah... no. Apr 04 06:27:10 TI-BASIC MASTERRACEEEEE Apr 04 06:27:20 <_genuser_> t0astt: I recently found that out about PHP while doing research on efficienty, etc. Apr 04 06:27:35 Can you make the view item GONE if that boolean is not set? Apr 04 06:27:53 CedricBeust: then it leaves a blank spot in the listview Apr 04 06:27:55 _genuser: My opinion is that PHP gets that bad rap because the barrier to entry is low as hell Apr 04 06:28:21 DadFoundMy: Yeah I was afraid of that Apr 04 06:28:25 oh i thought it got a bad rap because it was bad Apr 04 06:28:31 Maintain two lists then Apr 04 06:28:33 <_genuser_> t0astt: I read that it's actually is slow performance wise, and saw some benchmarks. "studies" showing you should use jsp or something like that. Apr 04 06:28:43 Absolutely do not use JSP Apr 04 06:28:48 CedricBeust: i think im actually going to have to use 3 lists :D Apr 04 06:28:49 JSP is disgusting Apr 04 06:29:08 _genuser: How recent were those benchmarks? Any comparison to hack/hhvm? Apr 04 06:29:09 <_genuser_> t0astt: my bro's last company used PHP and they did not seem to have many issues. but I think they using node.js and mix of other crap. Apr 04 06:29:34 i use braiinfuck for all my web development needs Apr 04 06:29:39 <_genuser_> t0astt: naw, I research that last year when deciding if I should write the back end of my app myself or hire "web develoeprs". Apr 04 06:29:49 _genuser: ah, gotcha Apr 04 06:29:57 DadFoundMy: Oh yeah? I USE WHEELCHAIR. Apr 04 06:29:59 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: you have issue with JSP scaling, etc? Apr 04 06:30:11 t0astt: yes on my WHITESPACE level Apr 04 06:30:12 Nothing to do with scaling, JSP is a mess Apr 04 06:30:19 <_genuser_> t0astt: wheelchair is a js lib or something. Apr 04 06:30:23 http://azac.pl/cobol-on-wheelchair/ Apr 04 06:30:30 _genuser: COBOL :D :D :D Apr 04 06:31:00 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: my friend is releasing his app waitergator and his web dev team decided that JSP was teh back choice for web work. and they seemed happy with it in terms of scaling and it's abilities. Apr 04 06:31:18 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: but then again, devs will be comfortable with what they work with a lot (especially for work). Apr 04 06:31:27 t0astt: both cobol on wheelchair and cobol on cogs are terrible examples of the language, fwiw. :P Apr 04 06:31:32 So much wrong with JSP, mixing logic with presentation, the format of the file itself, which can contain 4+ languages depending on where you are, etc... Apr 04 06:31:33 wasn't JSP replaced with Java ServerFaces or something Apr 04 06:31:41 I liked JSP Apr 04 06:31:43 <_genuser_> t0astt: yeah, I see names popup quite often. wheelchair, handlebar, moustache, etc. Apr 04 06:31:53 I'd pick a server delivering JSON and client side templating. A year ago, I'd hav picked Angular, these days, React Apr 04 06:31:58 it was like type-safe PHP Apr 04 06:32:37 <_genuser_> problem with all these things is there's too many libs and scripting languages now. everybody and their dog has a new something. Apr 04 06:32:38 That's not setting the bar very high Apr 04 06:32:45 that's what i liked though Apr 04 06:32:49 it was like, eh, do what you want Apr 04 06:32:55 _genuser_: It's a good thing. The good technologies rise to the top Apr 04 06:32:56 <_genuser_> and they get a few followers, a few forks, and the project is legit. it brings in more idjits Apr 04 06:33:18 CedricBeust MS-DOS :) Apr 04 06:33:20 my interview question used to be implement a JSP compiler (i.e., parse it and write out the java file) Apr 04 06:33:26 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: can't argue against free and open source movement. they do a lot for the community. Apr 04 06:33:29 JakeWharton: Now that's cruel Apr 04 06:33:51 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: just that everyone sharing their stuff, and a new comer like me picking which of the web platforms to use to build a website... well it's confusing. Apr 04 06:33:53 JakeWharton: i didnt know your last name was hitler Apr 04 06:33:55 haha. why? i could have just as easily made up a syntax Apr 04 06:34:11 <_genuser_> CedricBeust: on the other hand, I do'nt want to sit down and write the whole thing myself in php, asp.net or anything like that. Apr 04 06:34:12 the question has nothing to do with JSP Apr 04 06:34:39 <_genuser_> wait, so Wharton is part of your first name and you have a different last name? Apr 04 06:34:43 <_genuser_> world spinning. Apr 04 06:35:25 <_genuser_> lol, that's an interview question where I'd just get up and walk away. Apr 04 06:35:33 _genuser: JakeWharton is quite googlable... you can find him on LinkedIn Apr 04 06:35:40 _genuser_: well then you're dumb Apr 04 06:35:45 <_genuser_> t0astt: yep. I know. Apr 04 06:35:59 <_genuser_> JakeWharton: no, honestly, I just do'nt have a clue how to write a compiler. I'd be sitting there pointless writing code. Apr 04 06:36:06 it's easy Apr 04 06:36:13 there's only 3 rules Apr 04 06:36:21 iterate character by character and keep some kind of state Apr 04 06:36:35 <_genuser_> easy it subjective. once you've read about it and done it, it's easy. but to someone who never reserached the topic it's a blackbox area Apr 04 06:36:39 You don't need compiler knowledge to answer that question, just an eye for details and corner cases (assuming you want to be strict with JSP) Apr 04 06:37:17 i had never done it when a similar question was given to me Apr 04 06:37:27 that's the point. break it down, figure it out. Apr 04 06:37:42 no smart interviewer cares about if you get the perfect solution Apr 04 06:37:43 <_genuser_> so what's the other 2 rules? assuming what you listed was one rule? Apr 04 06:37:59 no, JSP itself has 3 rules is what I meant Apr 04 06:38:13 <_genuser_> yeah, I think I'd work best in a write pseudo code environment. Apr 04 06:38:32 <%-- foo %> is a comment, <%= var %> is a println of 'var', <% statement %> is a raw Java statement Apr 04 06:38:33 <_genuser_> real specifics... I think I haven't bothered to remember anything since google. Apr 04 06:39:22

<%= name %>

<%= name %>

Apr 04 06:39:38 <_genuser_> oh, I see. JSP itself is then just a salad or java / text (what that might actually be, html, another scripting language) Apr 04 06:39:49 <_genuser_> *salad of java/text Apr 04 06:40:01 all you have to do is look for <%--, <%=, or <% and then treat everything between that and the corresponding closing tag specially Apr 04 06:40:06 everything else is a string, for all intents and purposes Apr 04 06:40:32 <_genuser_> so essentially you're pulling out java code, putting it in a .java file and then compiling with javac Apr 04 06:41:10 yes. i promise you could have done it if i had explained it properly in person. Apr 04 06:41:14 <_genuser_> I believe this conversation was my intro to jsp. Apr 04 06:41:21 but then we get to fun corner cases as CedricBeust alluded :) Apr 04 06:41:55 My favorite game is to click randomly in the JSP file and guess what language I'm expected to type there Apr 04 06:41:56 <_genuser_> before android, I avoided anything that said java. and now I only do java for android. and I'm trying to follow java standards otherwise, no other java dev would be able to grok my code Apr 04 06:42:33 Does anyone know the name of the library that adds the "first run help" functionality that Google has in some of their apps? Where you run the app for the first time and the screen darkens but highlights certain areas? Apr 04 06:42:46 <_genuser_> I have done tons of ASP 3.0. which was also <% asp_code %> littered all over an HTML file. Apr 04 06:43:42 yep. asp is the same thing. Apr 04 06:44:12 _genuser_: yeah but java culture is so bad people are fleeing to languages like kotlin Apr 04 06:44:20 <_genuser_> well, thanks for teaching me JSP quickly. I actually didn't know how it works. Apr 04 06:45:29 <_genuser_> myke: right, but on android you gotta use java. and it helps to stay consistent with community if you someday want to move to android coding. Apr 04 06:45:52 That's a sound position Apr 04 06:46:06 i'm consistent with standards on a per-project basis Apr 04 06:46:10 my own projects have my own Apr 04 06:46:29 <_genuser_> I did that for long time. but now I try to go with the language specifics. Apr 04 06:47:11 <_genuser_> after delphi, all my objects were TObject and all windows devs were like is this a "type"? Why isn't it CObject, etc. etc. Apr 04 06:48:21 oh yeah, i remember "C" ... may you down in an ocean of C things ! Apr 04 06:48:27 CThis Cthat Apr 04 06:48:47 <_genuser_> who the C++ devs? Apr 04 06:49:21 Oh, JakeWharton you wrote Scalpel for Xposed, right? Apr 04 06:49:27 no Apr 04 06:49:40 no in MFC , all the classes started with C Apr 04 06:49:43 i wouldn't touch xposed Apr 04 06:49:59 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JakeWharton/scalpel/master/images/sample.gif Apr 04 06:50:24 I wrote Scalpel, yes. Apr 04 06:50:40 <_genuser_> g00s: I break some java norms. but mostly, I just use java norms for my android projects. Apr 04 06:50:46 hmm ok. yeah I found it as an xposed module http://repo.xposed.info/module/pl.com.android.scalpel.inject Apr 04 06:51:39 anyway, it's a pretty sweep library/app Apr 04 06:51:39 _genuser_: myVariable vs mVariable Apr 04 06:51:47 why is that an android standard anyway? Apr 04 06:52:03 it isn't Apr 04 06:52:16 it's in the AOSP style guide and it has infected non-AOSP code Apr 04 06:52:16 it isnt? Apr 04 06:52:21 <_genuser_> DadFoundMy: I just stick with mVar. for public vars, VariableToHoldsSh|t Apr 04 06:52:46 JakeWharton: so you use myVar? Apr 04 06:52:52 no Apr 04 06:53:01 <_genuser_> otherwise, I'd be sitting there writting getters and setters. a huge waste of time. Apr 04 06:53:27 JakeWharton: now im confused lol Apr 04 06:53:33 just call it 'var' Apr 04 06:53:50 ah interesting Apr 04 06:54:13 <_genuser_> interestingly, I am moving towards var a little bit lately. Apr 04 06:54:16 this is what everyone else in the world, including Google, does Apr 04 06:54:37 <_genuser_> mVar, the m is from my Delphi days to indicate private var Apr 04 06:54:37 https://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/javaguide.html#s5.1-identifier-names Apr 04 06:54:39 really? isn't it java standard to call it myVar? Apr 04 06:54:44 no Apr 04 06:54:55 is my whole life a lie right now? Apr 04 06:55:01 <_genuser_> lol. Apr 04 06:55:07 DadFoundMy myVar, ourVar, and yourVar Apr 04 06:55:38 <_genuser_> after using VB6 for almost a decade it was HARD to move to using the Shift key. Apr 04 06:55:39 DadFoundMy you are going to have to rewrite your app now Apr 04 06:55:53 g00s: yeah change all the variables lol Apr 04 06:56:15 personally in my code i use the m prefix for any insance variable and just simply var for any other variable Apr 04 06:56:22 is prefix for booleans Apr 04 06:56:26 <_genuser_> well, you just right-click, refactor, rename in eclipse. you're done mostly. Apr 04 06:56:27 stuff like that that Apr 04 06:56:44 _genuser_: shift + f6 Apr 04 06:56:50 atleast in AS Apr 04 06:57:18 <_genuser_> DadFoundMy: in AS? in eclipse clt-alt-r, I think. Apr 04 06:57:30 android studio Apr 04 06:57:48 i use snake case, pretty sure that's grounds for lynching in java Apr 04 06:58:15 JakeWharton: now im really confused. you said AOSP uses mPrefix, but doesnt google still make aosp??? Apr 04 06:58:23 that whole mMember thing was before IDEs could tag it for you Apr 04 06:58:29 DadFoundMy: they bought Android Apr 04 06:58:31 <_genuser_> my AS installation is up and running. I just haven't started any new projects yet. Altho, I might move my test project to use conceal (by facebook) to AS. Apr 04 06:58:33 but i'm sure people still use hungarian notation Apr 04 06:58:43 JakeWharton: i assumed they bought it pretty early on though Apr 04 06:59:02 changing a convention on a code base of that size is a highly disruptive and non-trivial operation Apr 04 06:59:05 and they still write aosp code Apr 04 06:59:12 because consistency is more important Apr 04 06:59:13 <_genuser_> myke: yeah, once I realized, I could just mouse over stuff in IDEs, I figured prefixes were pointless. Apr 04 06:59:31 like jake said, consistency within a project is the most important Apr 04 07:00:33 well time to pass out, im used to it being 3am but its only 1am local Apr 04 07:03:12 <_genuser_> sorry to digress form the regular naming convnetion snobbery but, captain janeway is hot! Apr 04 07:04:09 haha Apr 04 07:05:39 Hello, Im reading this in order to have an app with distinct fragments Apr 04 07:05:39 https://developer.android.com/training/basics/fragments/creating.html Apr 04 07:06:06 it mentions I should extend the fragment class in case Im using old API Apr 04 07:06:50 as I am not (my min sdk version is 16) and compiling with android 5 Apr 04 07:06:57