**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 19 02:59:58 2016
Jan 19 03:00:55 <pfn> reside menu?
Jan 19 03:01:07 <pfn> transparent status bar isn't that difficult
Jan 19 03:01:25 <vigilancer> https://github.com/SpecialCyCi/AndroidResideMenu
Jan 19 03:01:31 <vigilancer> yeah, but combination is
Jan 19 03:01:53 <vigilancer> the only implementation of reside-menu I've found so far
Jan 19 03:02:29 <pfn> that's very counter to the platform
Jan 19 03:04:09 <vigilancer> customers have own very special visions some times
Jan 19 03:04:22 <hays> vigilancer: yeah.. it came up.  took a long time.
Jan 19 03:04:35 <hays> the darn thing keeps making a notificatoin noise for no reason
Jan 19 03:04:35 <pfn> well, that sort of thing requires a lot of work
Jan 19 03:04:42 <pfn> no matter the platform
Jan 19 03:04:46 <hays> hopefully this complete reflash will fix
Jan 19 03:05:14 <hays> although... first thing it did booting up was make the dumb noise...
Jan 19 03:05:31 <hays> not sure if any malwar can survive ./flash-all.sh
Jan 19 03:05:50 <vigilancer> hays: is there already not so hairy method for rootin 6 on nexus 5?
Jan 19 03:06:17 <hays> not sure. this device im actually not rooting
Jan 19 03:06:44 <hays> is it hairy? last i remember you just flash twrp and then upload supersu
Jan 19 03:06:56 <hays> but i may be out of date
Jan 19 03:07:28 <vigilancer> pfn: well, yeah. but this implementation seems working. but not respection window flags for now
Jan 19 03:07:33 * vigilancer expecting more bugs
Jan 19 03:11:09 <vigilancer> *not respecting
Jan 19 03:11:44 <hays> ahh i see that the latest supersu is beta
Jan 19 03:13:03 <vigilancer> hays: also it depends on kernel version. too many gotchas, sticking with 5 for now
Jan 19 03:13:40 <hays> i find it hard to run anything but stock on an nexus
Jan 19 03:13:57 <vigilancer> CM works fine
Jan 19 03:14:02 <hays> just because its so easy... you get all the lastest everything.. things are sensible
Jan 19 03:15:07 <vigilancer> if you buying now you'll get adb-over-wifi button in menu)
Jan 19 03:16:12 <vigilancer> and root out of box
Jan 19 03:16:34 <vigilancer> offtopic, i know -_-
Jan 19 03:18:22 <hays> there will come a time when the lastest stock image is too slow or otherwise sucks and ill start using CM or some other ROM
Jan 19 03:19:27 <hays> its cool cm is already on 13
Jan 19 03:20:44 <hays> they only do nightlies though right? that i think i found annoying last i used them
Jan 19 03:28:05 <g00s> vigilancer that is ... bizarre
Jan 19 03:28:37 <g00s> (reside menu)
Jan 19 03:35:37 <honestemu> Anyone know why my action bar is not appearing? I see that it is leaving space for it, but nothing shows up... https://gist.github.com/emilabraham/7877645b439b445be04e
Jan 19 03:35:59 <honestemu> I have a feeling it might have to do with my theme?
Jan 19 03:36:50 <g00s> honestemu look at the cheese squared app and compare notes
Jan 19 03:36:55 <g00s> pretty simple
Jan 19 03:37:33 <honestemu> cheese squared?
Jan 19 03:37:55 <g00s> :D
Jan 19 03:38:26 <honestemu> I don't get it
Jan 19 03:38:27 <g00s> https://github.com/chrisbanes/cheesesquare
Jan 19 03:39:46 <honestemu> I'll take a look, thanks!
Jan 19 03:45:28 <honestemu> What is the difference between extending Activity vs extending AppCompatActivity?
Jan 19 03:50:01 <b4b> yall nerds need to holler at a g
Jan 19 03:50:51 <g00s> CedricBeust do you know what b4b is babbling about
Jan 19 03:53:21 <vigilancer> g00s: agree. waiting when they decide to add animated gif on splashscreen
Jan 19 03:54:23 <vigilancer> g00s: hook thing was funny
Jan 19 03:55:07 <g00s> haha , so WhatsApp found out how to make money
Jan 19 03:57:34 <g00s> " companies will now be able to pay to contact users directly"
Jan 19 03:58:06 <g00s> so i think this dovetails nicely with https://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/41izqi/what_industry_is_shadier_than_most_people_realise/cz2o90h
Jan 19 03:59:31 <b4b> g00s: sup homegirl?
Jan 19 04:03:04 <RustyShackleford> I want to replace my galaxy s5 pretty soon
Jan 19 04:03:16 <RustyShackleford> do you have any favorites? Vanilla android would be awesome
Jan 19 04:03:28 <RustyShackleford> but the Nexus 5x is not supported by verizon
Jan 19 04:05:14 <RustyShackleford> hmm... do I want an iPhone? never had one lol
Jan 19 04:05:18 <RustyShackleford> i'd feel like a traitor
Jan 19 04:08:30 <g00s> RustyShackleford it will be up to date for longer :D
Jan 19 04:11:01 <honestemu> When I create an About This App button, should I have the info pop up in a dialogue box or have it go to a new Activity? Which is the standard?
Jan 19 04:13:59 <RustyShackleford> g00s: sorry I don't understand. Which would be up to date for longer?
Jan 19 04:14:17 <g00s> RustyShackleford the iphone of course, even longer than nexus
Jan 19 04:14:45 <RustyShackleford> I'm pretty invested in the google apps. I dunno how much I want to transition
Jan 19 04:15:09 <g00s> all the google apps are on iOS too
Jan 19 04:15:19 <vigilancer> honestemu: not sure if about info is some kind of standard. imo if it brief dialog is fine
Jan 19 04:15:36 <RustyShackleford> g00s: which do you use for your personal phone?
Jan 19 04:15:50 <g00s> i have a lumia 521 (old)
Jan 19 04:16:05 <g00s> love it, still works great for me. its small so i can run with it
Jan 19 04:16:20 <RustyShackleford> phones are definitely too large haha
Jan 19 04:16:25 <RustyShackleford> windows phone, really?
Jan 19 04:16:27 <b4b> still running from bullies?
Jan 19 04:16:53 <TacticalJoke> I wish Windows would get big in the mobile area.
Jan 19 04:16:56 <TacticalJoke> Their OS looks great.
Jan 19 04:17:22 <TacticalJoke> The keyboard even lets you pick whether you're right-handed or left-handed, whereafter it shows on the correct side.
Jan 19 04:17:32 <TacticalJoke> Loads of little niceties.
Jan 19 04:17:40 <vigilancer> TacticalJoke: like interface or dev-friendly?
Jan 19 04:17:46 <RustyShackleford> from what i've heard, the OS is great but there are no apps for Windows phones
Jan 19 04:18:10 <TacticalJoke> vigilancer:  The UI.  But I hear that development is good too.
Jan 19 04:18:22 <g00s> RustyShackleford that is .. correct. i don't really use apps though, so i didn't care. it came with Here offline maps
Jan 19 04:18:41 <vigilancer> wonder if one can develop for winphone in os x
Jan 19 04:18:42 <g00s> it has that and kindle, all i cared about really
Jan 19 04:19:00 <g00s> vigilancer not that i'm aware of, but you could learn c# on os x
Jan 19 04:19:15 <g00s> .net core moving along nicely
Jan 19 04:19:27 <vigilancer> apple and oranges
Jan 19 04:19:35 <vigilancer> and windows in this case)
Jan 19 04:19:36 <g00s> ;)
Jan 19 04:20:28 <TacticalJoke> My local phone shop had an MS employee in there training people on Windows phones.
Jan 19 04:20:39 <TacticalJoke> She actually knew her stuff, a rarity in phone shops (or anywhere).
Jan 19 04:21:27 <RustyShackleford> god I hate the phone shops
Jan 19 04:21:33 <RustyShackleford> those salesman are sooo pushy
Jan 19 04:21:40 <g00s> here in the US carriers actively persuaded people from windows phones from the beginning
Jan 19 04:21:53 <vigilancer> g00s: how so
Jan 19 04:21:55 <g00s> they would rather seem them use their android device loaded with bloatware
Jan 19 04:22:02 <TacticalJoke> RustyShackleford:  The more they push, the less I buy.  :D
Jan 19 04:22:11 <TacticalJoke> Actually, it makes me haggle with them.
Jan 19 04:22:19 <TacticalJoke> If they want the sale that bad, they can knock $100 off the price.
Jan 19 04:22:20 <g00s> MS was pretty strict about what could be loaded on the phone. also, MS does updates themselves also
Jan 19 04:22:36 <g00s> which is the way it should be, but cuts the carriers out
Jan 19 04:22:41 <jessie> I wish Google was a bit more strict about what was allowed. Bloatware on Android devices sucks.
Jan 19 04:22:55 <TacticalJoke> Google would end up banning itself.
Jan 19 04:23:01 <g00s> and if its one thing carriers will do reliably, is whatever is not in your best interest :D
Jan 19 04:23:03 <TacticalJoke> Especially if we talked about user privacy.
Jan 19 04:23:11 <RustyShackleford> I wish I wasn't so uncomfortable with confrontations
Jan 19 04:23:29 <TacticalJoke> RustyShackleford:  It takes practice.  Also, get angry.
Jan 19 04:23:34 <TacticalJoke> Angry people lose inhibitions.
Jan 19 04:23:42 <RustyShackleford> I try to politely refuse whatever they offer me, it doesn't work
Jan 19 04:23:51 <g00s> RustyShackleford yes, start by throwing stuff around
Jan 19 04:24:03 <RustyShackleford> hah there's a balance
Jan 19 04:24:18 <g00s> just walk around the store and throw the phones all over the place
Jan 19 04:24:20 <TacticalJoke> RustyShackleford:  A good technique is to play Mr. Hard to Please.
Jan 19 04:24:37 <TacticalJoke> Be unimpressed by everything, but be gentle about it.  They'll go to great lengths to find your interest.
Jan 19 04:24:45 <TacticalJoke> They might even haggle.
Jan 19 04:24:57 <g00s> RustyShackleford and no 2 year contracts !
Jan 19 04:25:49 <vigilancer> just keep asking if they have potatos
Jan 19 04:26:53 <vigilancer> but with buttons and small screen like in good ol' days
Jan 19 04:27:01 <g00s> vigilancer tell them you are looking for the phone with the most bloatware
Jan 19 04:27:14 <vigilancer> already have android, thank you
Jan 19 04:27:56 <g00s> what cracks me up, is that Google gave carriers in 5.0, the ability to put apps not on the system partition, so they could be uninstalled (if i understand this right) but ... nobody bites !
Jan 19 04:28:08 <g00s> not like google does the same with their apps :P
Jan 19 04:28:41 <jessie> All I know is Nexus devices for life.
Jan 19 04:29:10 <g00s> i'd rather have a blank slate and install gmail and maps, which is pretty much all i use
Jan 19 04:29:21 <g00s> i think i disabled like 30 things
Jan 19 04:29:31 <g00s> and that crap needs to be recompiled on every OTA, which totally blows !
Jan 19 04:29:38 <jessie> I use Gmail, maps, hangouts, youtube, and calendars.
Jan 19 04:29:59 <capella-s3> k9mail maps and Dropbox :)
Jan 19 04:30:06 <g00s> lol k9mail
Jan 19 04:30:14 <jessie> k9mail is almost good but not quite
Jan 19 04:30:17 <TacticalJoke> Don't y'all use web browsers... or the phone app?
Jan 19 04:30:24 <capella-s3> It does encryption
Jan 19 04:30:39 <jessie> capella-s3: That I could be down with
Jan 19 04:30:50 <capella-s3> and doesnt route through Google
Jan 19 04:30:52 <vigilancer> i'm thinking about iphone, 5 or maybe even 4. just you know, to use it as phone. since I don't do ios development
Jan 19 04:31:06 <jessie> vigilancer: I would go with the 5s.
Jan 19 04:31:19 <pfn> the stock email app doesn't route through Google
Jan 19 04:31:21 <vigilancer> jessie: 4 too old?
Jan 19 04:31:25 <jessie> capella-s3: True. BTW, Yubikey Neo is pretty sweet
Jan 19 04:31:42 <g00s> where is the stock email app these days ?
Jan 19 04:31:49 <jessie> vigilancer: Yeah, the 4 is pretty aged at this point. The 5 is borderline, but the 5s will likely be supported a bit longer.
Jan 19 04:31:51 <capella-s3> I need a yubikey usb token thing
Jan 19 04:31:52 <jessie> g00s: Dead
Jan 19 04:32:04 <jessie> Yubikey NEO does OTP & GPG over NFC
Jan 19 04:32:07 <vigilancer> g00s: os x have nice mail stock client
Jan 19 04:32:09 <pfn> why would you get an iPhone 4 to use as a phone...
Jan 19 04:32:12 <jessie> So no storing your NFC key on device.
Jan 19 04:32:18 <vigilancer> pfn: why not
Jan 19 04:32:30 <capella> jessie: yah UAF/ U2F / FIDO stuff
Jan 19 04:32:31 <jessie> That + OpenKeyChain + Password Store is my ideal password store solution.
Jan 19 04:32:32 <vigilancer> every android device will become testing machine
Jan 19 04:32:49 <TacticalJoke> I've become lazy now, and I mainly use the Android emulator.  :s
Jan 19 04:32:59 <eggie5> i'm using the braintree dropin UI to collectet CC info, but it doesn't seem to inherit my apps v7 AppCompat (dark material) theme correctly. the only style it inherits is the white text. So it's a white background w/ white text. Is there a way to force the activity to use a theme?
Jan 19 04:33:02 <g00s> TacticalJoke lol, you with many rams
Jan 19 04:33:15 <vigilancer> TacticalJoke: because you have 12GB now)
Jan 19 04:33:18 <TacticalJoke> I can haz all the apps now.
Jan 19 04:33:35 <jessie> It requires 2 factor auth (something you physically have that can't be copied, something you know (pin)), doesn't depend on 3rd parties, and is 100% open source
Jan 19 04:33:41 <jessie> Minus the Yubikey hardware
Jan 19 04:33:45 <jessie> But it's about as good as it gets.
Jan 19 04:34:25 <g00s> wow, that yubikey is cool
Jan 19 04:34:49 <capella> jessie: I'm ccurently lurking / observing 	https://bugzil.la/1065729 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Implement the FIDO Alliance u2f javascript API
Jan 19 04:35:01 <vigilancer> jessie: 2 factor not so perfect. if malware listen while you entering pin, it's enough to wait until you enter N-1 symbols and then bruteforce last one
Jan 19 04:35:20 <g00s> yeah, like if you are wearing a smart watch :D
Jan 19 04:35:20 <adq> i have the yubikey, it's not that bad
Jan 19 04:35:22 <jessie> vigilancer: Only 3 attempts before it wipes
Jan 19 04:35:33 <adq> but it's a bit far from a typical cryptoken, no pin, etc..
Jan 19 04:35:41 <vigilancer> jessie: 3 from 10. not so bad
Jan 19 04:35:57 <jessie> Yeah, it's better than average. And it's a hell of a lot better than storing the key on device.
Jan 19 04:36:04 <jessie> That allows for an offline attack
Jan 19 04:36:26 <vigilancer> jessie: depends what are you trying to hide
Jan 19 04:36:32 <adq> vigilancer, for defeating malware listening to your pin, you use a secure pin reader, but then it costly, not for average consumer but more for payment system
Jan 19 04:36:46 <adq> they can still wait you log-in anyway..
Jan 19 04:36:50 <capella> The ultimate fllback is the trust system of the FIDO members themselves
Jan 19 04:37:04 <capella> Visa, BackO-Merica, eytc
Jan 19 04:37:12 <vigilancer> adq: my point. if it porno site password don't sweat it
Jan 19 04:37:12 <capella> (heh - cant type)
Jan 19 04:37:20 <adq> lol
Jan 19 04:37:33 <jessie> vigilancer: Not looking to hide much, just looking to prevent easy mass survailence.
Jan 19 04:37:55 <capella> screw surveillance, I want financial loss protection
Jan 19 04:38:01 <jessie> Ha
Jan 19 04:38:02 <jessie> Ha
Jan 19 04:38:03 <jessie> Ha
Jan 19 04:38:09 <adq> by the way, U2F token does not work well at all with android devices..
Jan 19 04:38:19 <jessie> The whole banking industry is so behind the times.
Jan 19 04:38:19 <adq> it's mainly for chrome on your regular desktop
Jan 19 04:38:33 <jessie> capella: Don't use Mint or any other online budgeting system then.
Jan 19 04:38:41 <capella> I don't ;)
Jan 19 04:38:42 <jessie> Seeing as you literally share your credentials with third parties.
Jan 19 04:38:49 <g00s> mint sounds like its in trouble
Jan 19 04:38:55 <vigilancer> capella: fido was pretty nice, really enjoyed it
Jan 19 04:39:11 <jessie> I dream of a day when all banks offer an OAuth authencated standardized API that offers read only access.
Jan 19 04:39:12 <capella> I've worked in IT /and/ banking for many years :)
Jan 19 04:39:13 <vigilancer> capella: but privacy.. c'mon)
Jan 19 04:39:27 <capella> So I encrypt and provide my own security / privacy
Jan 19 04:39:45 <capella> But money, I need the banks to recover
Jan 19 04:39:53 <capella> (If I mess up)
Jan 19 04:40:28 <jessie> Yeah. Banks are generally good about loss prevention though.
Jan 19 04:40:36 <jessie> I had my Chase Credit Card stolen.
Jan 19 04:40:48 <jessie> Ironically, while I was in India, but it was stolen at home, not in India.
Jan 19 04:41:09 <jessie> Probably $800 in fraudulent charges, but they refunded me 100%
Jan 19 04:41:31 <capella> Yah, they've got a lot on the line too, a whole business model
Jan 19 04:42:19 <capella> I remember the old movies ... Wells Fargo men ... :)
Jan 19 04:42:44 <vigilancer> ok time to crawl to work
Jan 19 04:43:47 <g00s> obey your master
Jan 19 04:45:01 <vigilancer> ok.. now I'm at work
Jan 19 04:45:08 <vigilancer> )
Jan 19 04:45:35 <jessie> Working from home is best work
Jan 19 04:45:40 <vigilancer> +1
Jan 19 04:48:04 <capella> Until your remote partner mentions he has to put his pants on to answer the door, and you need to scratch out your minds eye
Jan 19 04:48:27 <g00s> i like this ElasticDragDismissLayout from Plaid, but to use it right you need Window#getReturnTransition() ... which is API 21.
Jan 19 04:48:39 <g00s> it will be great when i can say minSdk = 21 :D
Jan 19 04:49:24 <KevinM> ^ Android development in a nutshell
Jan 19 04:50:13 <jessie> Right? minSdk = 23 is going to be best, but 21 will be doable.
Jan 19 04:50:28 <jessie> I'm very glad Marshmallow has ask on demand permissions.
Jan 19 04:50:32 <jessie> That was something iOS got right.
Jan 19 04:50:52 <g00s> yeah ... still wish it let you turn off internet access for individual apps
Jan 19 04:51:20 <capella> but, ads!
Jan 19 04:51:29 <g00s> but, surveillance !
Jan 19 04:51:48 <capella> but ads that spy!
Jan 19 04:53:26 * vigilancer imaganing spy that ads
Jan 19 04:54:27 <vigilancer> all that gloves and hat. "cozy national secrets!"
Jan 19 04:54:40 <jessie> But terrorism!!!1!!!!!!!!
Jan 19 04:54:55 <vigilancer> "but they so cozy!"
Jan 19 04:55:02 <capella> But, "the children!"
Jan 19 04:55:13 <vigilancer> kick the baby
Jan 19 04:55:15 <capella> heh, maybe not a valid corollary
Jan 19 04:59:13 <g00s> capella did you hear that ?
Jan 19 05:01:28 <beaglebagel> when building apks, is it normal for assemble gradle to output both debug and release version?
Jan 19 05:01:32 <capella> g00s: mmmm?
Jan 19 05:02:01 <jessie> beaglebagel: I wouldn't think so. Usually just the release.
Jan 19 05:03:06 <beaglebagel> hmm.. and should we control whether to sign debug/release version separately? so the output apks are unsigned/signed?
Jan 19 05:03:39 <jessie> Why do you need a debug apk?
Jan 19 05:03:48 <beaglebagel> jessie: i'm confused on when the signing the apk is needed
Jan 19 05:04:03 <jessie> Typically only when you plan to distriubte the apk, beaglebagel
Jan 19 05:04:22 <vigilancer> beaglebagel: all apk signed. debug in most cases sign with default debug key
Jan 19 05:04:28 <beaglebagel> i may not need it, it's just that my assemble command builds those, and it's the only one installable on other's device
Jan 19 05:04:42 <beaglebagel> ok
Jan 19 05:05:30 <vigilancer> beaglebagel: $./gradlew assembleDebug - saves you some seconds if you don't need build all versions
Jan 19 05:05:37 <beaglebagel> by distribution, do you mean distributing to both (appstore, private apk sharing)?
Jan 19 05:06:07 <jessie> Yeah, if you plan to do either (appstore or private apk sharing) you should sign with your private key
Jan 19 05:07:18 <beaglebagel> and is sharing debug apk pointless because the other side can't debug the app anyway?
Jan 19 05:07:53 <jessie> Unless they're a developer they likely won't be able to. And you'd probably need the source to debug easily as well.
Jan 19 05:08:09 <beaglebagel> right i see
Jan 19 05:08:40 <vigilancer> beaglebagel: if apk signed with different key it will not update currently installed
Jan 19 05:10:18 <beaglebagel> vigilancer: am still confused in this, so if all apks are signed, i'm getting this output "release-unsigned.apk" from asesmble command. is the release apk version not signed here because i missed some key setup?
Jan 19 05:11:09 <neredsenvy> Bit of confusion how do I read a file from internal storage ? Not the app related private storage but phones internal storage.
Jan 19 05:11:23 <vigilancer> beaglebagel: for release you must provide key. for debug not *must*.
Jan 19 05:11:30 <neredsenvy> Still not sure why Android considers both internal storage and sd card external storage.
Jan 19 05:11:35 <beaglebagel> ok
Jan 19 05:12:24 <beaglebagel> so when i tried installing this unsigned.apk, i got the message "cannot be installed", could that be the reason? (that it's not signed)
Jan 19 05:17:56 <vigilancer> beaglebagel: yes
Jan 19 05:18:05 <vigilancer> or something else
Jan 19 05:18:14 <vigilancer> besides that
Jan 19 05:20:45 <beaglebagel> vigilancer: thank you, ok and what is the general practice regarding release key sharing? (within the team)
Jan 19 05:22:28 <beaglebagel> should there be just ONE release key per app? and can it be shared among developers(to allow anyone to build)
Jan 19 05:24:46 <jessie> It depends. You could have one person only have access to the key, but that means that nobody else could build it.
Jan 19 05:25:20 <jessie> Another option is that the release key is only available on the build server (Jenkins, for example) and have that create the releaes APKs.
Jan 19 05:25:27 <jessie> Or you can just share it, which is probably most common.
Jan 19 05:28:30 <beaglebagel> i see, make sense. then if there is an app already released by one developer with a key, can other developers without access to that key still release the same app using different key?
Jan 19 05:29:38 <beaglebagel> or is it just not allowed..? think vigilancer said above the current one will not update properly, wondered if that'd be the case but still be able to release.
Jan 19 05:30:54 <jessie> You have to use the same key, IIRC.
Jan 19 05:32:51 <beaglebagel> ok thanks
Jan 19 05:46:58 <b4b> you’re still my nerds
Jan 19 06:06:22 <vigilancer> we are not
Jan 19 06:06:24 <vigilancer> are not
Jan 19 06:06:26 <vigilancer> are not
Jan 19 06:06:53 <br0mahn> Sup
Jan 19 06:07:06 <pfn> eh, totp and hotp are suitable 2fa implementations
Jan 19 06:07:31 <pfn> there is no requirement that "something you have" cannot be replicated
Jan 19 06:15:28 <jessie> pfn: Ideally it would be.
Jan 19 06:15:38 <jessie> Otherwise what good is the second factor?
Jan 19 06:15:45 <jessie> If it can easily be copied, it's not much good.
Jan 19 06:16:51 <vigilancer> pfn: coursera have nice crypto course
Jan 19 06:17:31 <vigilancer> just fyi. it's good to share)
Jan 19 06:18:39 <g00s> capella that damn FF bug came back on d.android.com
Jan 19 06:18:57 <g00s> when you scroll the mouse wheel in the nav frame, the rest of the page scrolls too ..
Jan 19 06:19:18 <capella-s3> oh, bah, yah I remember your complaint
Jan 19 06:19:30 <g00s> it was fixed, then they broke it again
Jan 19 06:19:38 <capella-s3> thought it hadn't been fixed yet
Jan 19 06:20:35 <capella> g00s: File a regression ... either on the bug that fixed it, or a new one referencing the bug that broke it again?
Jan 19 06:20:49 <g00s> yeah i have to find that bug ...
Jan 19 06:21:03 * capella looking too
Jan 19 06:23:53 <capella> g00s: shoot me your email? I can search by that if you commented
Jan 19 06:24:08 <g00s> i dont think i ever commented capella
Jan 19 06:24:09 <capella> wait, you should be able to also
Jan 19 06:24:18 <capella> ah, frack
Jan 19 06:26:54 <capella> Bug 844346 - 2 finger trackpad scroll up/down gesture does not work on d.android.com pages with frames
Jan 19 06:27:22 <g00s> capella thanks !
Jan 19 06:29:26 <g00s> capella strange that mouse wheel works
Jan 19 06:29:31 <capella> g00s: cc: me out of curiosity if you open a bug :)
Jan 19 06:30:19 <g00s> one of those weird things, i need to make a movie of
Jan 19 06:39:17 <g00s> is there any reason to use an ActionProvider with toolbar these days ?
Jan 19 07:19:20 <rathodvikas10> my minimum sdk is 14 and using Toolbar. Should i use AppcompactActivity with it ?
Jan 19 07:26:14 <jessie> rathodvikas10: According to https://developer.android.com/reference/android/widget/Toolbar.html, the Toolbar widget was added in API level 21, so you do need to use App Compat.
Jan 19 07:26:50 <rathodvikas10> ok thnx
Jan 19 07:52:05 <g00s> thepoosh !
Jan 19 07:52:15 <thepoosh> hi hi
Jan 19 07:52:19 <thepoosh> what's news?
Jan 19 07:52:27 <g00s> thepoosh did you see what WhatsApp just did ?
Jan 19 07:52:38 <thepoosh> they just turned free right?
Jan 19 07:52:56 <g00s> yeah, lol. they just turned 'you're the product now'
Jan 19 07:53:04 <thepoosh> lolz
Jan 19 07:53:12 <thepoosh> I think they had that plan all the time
Jan 19 07:53:31 <thepoosh> and since they got bought by FB it was much more apparent if you notice these things
Jan 19 07:53:32 <SpaghettiCat> the app is the product
Jan 19 07:54:09 <thepoosh> SpaghettiCat: you're missing the point
Jan 19 07:54:23 <SpaghettiCat> it's like saying a person seeing an advert is a product, rather than the advertised product
Jan 19 07:54:24 <Ologn> https://www.adbusters.org/sites/default/files/adbusters_ProductIsYou.jpg
Jan 19 07:54:31 <thepoosh> if you cannot spot the source of income, you are the product
Jan 19 07:55:00 <SpaghettiCat> that's not what a "product" is. Check the dictionary :P
Jan 19 07:55:20 <g00s> Ologn :D soylent green supply chain has tracking at every step ;)
Jan 19 07:56:55 <adq> i retried "instant run" this morning.... have to launch 2 times the app, then it is stuck on the 3rd launch, then i have to relaunch it to be able to launch it a 5th time to have instant-run again
Jan 19 07:56:57 <adq> -__-
Jan 19 07:57:41 <SpaghettiCat> adq: well that AS release isn't even in beta, after all
Jan 19 07:58:19 <thepoosh> SpaghettiCat: the product is the source of income
Jan 19 07:58:38 <thepoosh> the income source
Jan 19 07:58:44 <adq> SpaghettiCat, you're really missing all the points
Jan 19 07:58:51 <thepoosh> like the price for using gmail
Jan 19 07:58:53 <thepoosh> to facebook
Jan 19 07:58:56 <thepoosh> *or
Jan 19 07:59:05 <thepoosh> and the reason everything.me closed down
Jan 19 07:59:36 <SpaghettiCat> thepoosh: are governments products when they provide subsidies? Or universities when they provide grants?
Jan 19 08:00:02 <thepoosh> since when governments and universities need to earn money?
Jan 19 08:00:03 <g00s> adq i'm still on 1.5.1 , their "stable" release - still flaky as hell, wish they would just get it straightened out
Jan 19 08:00:20 <adq> i'm on both, 1.5.1 should be named alpha
Jan 19 08:00:27 <thepoosh> hmmm
Jan 19 08:00:33 <thepoosh> i only use the release channel
Jan 19 08:00:44 <adq> i send dozen of "report to google" everyday, i could fill few tickets per day
Jan 19 08:00:46 <g00s> the "release" channel :D
Jan 19 08:00:50 <SpaghettiCat> thepoosh: I mean when a govt gives a subsidy to a company, the govt is the source of income. By your logic, the govt is the product
Jan 19 08:00:59 * g00s pictures Dr Evil doing the " "
Jan 19 08:01:29 <g00s> SpaghettiBrains ...
Jan 19 08:01:42 <SpaghettiCat> haha
Jan 19 08:01:59 <g00s> tired, gnight
Jan 19 08:06:00 <jim87> Hello! I've got an application which exposes a service. That service is "protected" by a custom permission: my.app.ACCESS_MAIN_SERVICE. I've added that custom permission to my other application (uses-permission tag in the manifest), but nonetheless the app crashes due to "java.lang.SecurityException: Not allowed to start service Intent { cmp=my.app/.MainService } without permission my.app.ACCESS_MAIN_SERVICE"... Any hint? Thanks :)
Jan 19 08:27:20 <rathodvikas10> i have screen which have two parent activity. How should i handle up button ?
Jan 19 08:32:54 <rathodvikas10> user profile is split into few screens and at the end a complete profile screen is shown. so when user edits some part of the profile it opens the activity and get back to profile. But at the time of signup it goes back to previous screen which is an another profile edit screen
Jan 19 09:17:40 <shibly> Hello
Jan 19 09:21:30 <shibly> I have problem running hello world app
Jan 19 09:21:36 <shibly> I see black screen
Jan 19 09:21:46 <shibly> Can't see "Hello world" string there
Jan 19 09:21:48 <shibly> Why ?
Jan 19 09:21:52 <shibly> http://imgur.com/dmqnFSG
Jan 19 09:22:15 <shibly> emulator: device fd:668
Jan 19 09:22:15 <shibly> HAXM is not working and emulator runs in emulation mode
Jan 19 09:22:38 <shibly> What should i do?
Jan 19 09:24:44 <SpaghettiCat> shibly: Do you think it's loading? It takes me 4-10 mins for the Android emulator to load up for the first time
Jan 19 09:25:18 <SpaghettiCat> shibly: if the problem is with your code, then we can't help you because you haven't shown us it
Jan 19 09:25:19 <shibly> I think, it's loading
Jan 19 09:25:38 <shibly> It's hello world app of android studio
Jan 19 09:28:15 <shibly> Is it the problem with emulator?
Jan 19 09:28:25 <shibly> Is the emulator starting well?
Jan 19 09:29:23 <vigilancer> shibly: install genymotion and start all over
Jan 19 09:55:54 <rathodvikas10> what is the guideline for font size on edittext
Jan 19 10:05:43 <BoD> rathodvikas10: https://www.google.com/design/spec/components/text-fields.html#text-fields-labels
Jan 19 10:10:02 <rathodvikas10> ty buddy
Jan 19 10:35:24 <anikras> hello, I have a project and when import with studio 1.5 and compile, I show this error: failed: Gradle DSL method not found: 'android()'
Jan 19 10:35:59 <anikras> I reinstalled all my laptop, now I am using jdk1.8
Jan 19 10:38:15 <anikras> this is my file: app/build.gradle:  http://pastebin.com/kaqxswKb
Jan 19 10:59:04 <jim87> Hello! I've got an application which exposes a service. That service is "protected" by a custom permission: my.app.ACCESS_MAIN_SERVICE. I've added that custom permission to my other application (uses-permission tag in the manifest), but nonetheless the app crashes due to "java.lang.SecurityException: Not allowed to start service Intent { cmp=my.app/.MainService } without permission my.app.ACCESS_MAIN_SERVICE"... Any hint? Thanks :)
Jan 19 11:01:27 <Mavrik> jim87, what kind of protection level did you assign to custom permission?
Jan 19 11:02:11 <jim87> Mavrik: where should I assign it? Always in the manifest? The service is enabled and exported...
Jan 19 11:03:06 <Mavrik> jim87, when you defined it
Jan 19 11:03:12 <Mavrik> You had to say which protection level it is.
Jan 19 11:03:30 <jim87> didn't define anything special... will look in the docs :)
Jan 19 11:09:58 <rathodvikas10> my minimum sdk is 14 and using Toolbar. Should i use v4 Fragment or Fragment
Jan 19 11:10:23 <Mavrik> Use v4 Fragment.
Jan 19 11:10:26 <Mavrik> Just for the bug fixes.
Jan 19 11:10:40 <Mavrik> and getSupport...() calls.
Jan 19 11:11:20 <rathodvikas10> ok
Jan 19 11:43:42 <Engys> hi
Jan 19 11:51:31 <Engys> I try to use an nvidia shield in the same dev environment I already used for my nexus 7 but it looks like nvidia android is not android anymore
Jan 19 11:54:39 <Engys> I begin to be unhappy with this device and feel like I need an iPad xP
Jan 19 11:54:54 <SpaghettiCat> Engys: ok
Jan 19 11:55:54 <Zalabinsky> activity.runOnUiThread(task) doesn't call task.run() .. anyone stumbled upon this?
Jan 19 11:56:31 <Mavrik> Engys, did you miss the channel perhaps?
Jan 19 11:56:43 <Mavrik> Zalabinsky, not really... is your UI thread blocked_
Jan 19 11:56:44 <Mavrik> ?
Jan 19 11:57:28 <Zalabinsky> Mavrik yes it does do synchronizing on task. same code is however used extensively through out the codebase and works
Jan 19 11:58:25 <Zalabinsky> if thats what you mean by blocked ui (maybe not?)
Jan 19 11:59:43 <Engys> Mavrik, maybe .. sry 4 that
Jan 19 11:59:50 <Ashiren> is your UI responsive then?
Jan 19 12:01:03 <Zalabinsky> Ashiren locks up as soon as it hits task.wait
Jan 19 12:01:12 <Leeds> for the record, I think the shield tablet is the most nexus-like device I'd had for a long time - that isn't a nexus
Jan 19 12:01:22 <Ashiren> umm
Jan 19 12:01:41 <Ashiren> what does the task wait for
Jan 19 12:02:09 <Zalabinsky> bg thread (legacy code) needs a value from ui thread
Jan 19 12:02:17 <Zalabinsky> so i block the bg thread until i have the value
Jan 19 12:02:50 <Ashiren> or maybe post important parts of code
Jan 19 12:08:53 <Engys> Leeds, ok good to know .. maybe its me who try to use mtp or adb on debian and archlinux without success .. permission denied + ABI incompatible
Jan 19 12:10:04 <Zalabinsky> Ashiren hmm, kind of pointless, as the same code works in very similar place... this is a weird one
Jan 19 12:10:48 <Zalabinsky> just a simple block bg thread and show dialog
Jan 19 12:10:49 <Leeds> Engys: adb seems to work just fine on my shield tab with slackware... which of the three shields do you have?
Jan 19 12:11:36 <Engys> Leeds, the tablet k1
Jan 19 12:11:42 <Leeds> yup, same here
Jan 19 12:13:30 <Leeds> when you plug it in, do you get a debug notification?
Jan 19 12:16:57 <Engys> after the system is booted .. adb devices show up the device but without permissions
Jan 19 12:19:47 <Leeds> ok, but that's not what I asked
Jan 19 12:22:20 <Engys> yes I get a notification
Jan 19 12:27:37 <Engys> and I can activate use mtp for data transfer on the shield but mtp-detect shows nothing
Jan 19 12:28:16 <Leeds> meh to mtp
Jan 19 12:42:53 <antisaint> Hey, I am looking thru the com/android/server/net/NetworkStatsService.smali after ripping out framework-res. I am looking for throttling as seen on the xda post, but I do not have the ThrottleService.smali that is mentioned, or a line like mentioned... help to anybody? Here is my guide, last portion... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2057344
Jan 19 12:54:21 <Engys> Leeds, ok I got it, apps now running on the nvidia shield, thanks for your comments!
Jan 19 13:03:54 <troulouliou_div2> hi could somebody explain me why in this enum the params of Stage are int but the  construction use String ? : https://bpaste.net/show/4d348163f3f9
Jan 19 13:05:42 <BoD> troulouliou_div2: these are int references to translated strings
Jan 19 13:06:09 <pduin> troulouliou_div2: check out http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/resources/accessing-resources.html
Jan 19 13:07:35 <troulouliou_div2> BoD, R.string.lockpassword_confirm_your_password_header is seen as a string no ?
Jan 19 13:07:59 <BoD> depends on what you mean by "is seen as"
Jan 19 13:09:27 <troulouliou_div2> BoD, ok ; so TextView.setText(R.string.bla) is in fact calling a setText(int resourceid) ?
Jan 19 13:10:41 <antisaint> Ok, can somebody explain where the carriers placed throttling control off and replaced it with? I have found some referenced to a rxlimit and txlimit but its bouncing between v0 - v12 or something as the called variable indicating the rmnet settings
Jan 19 13:11:03 <troulouliou_div2> pduin, BoD R.string.bla.GetClass() will return an Integer ?
Jan 19 13:11:43 <pduin> It's in fact a constant integer generated at compile time
Jan 19 13:11:58 <pduin> Which can be used to refer to a string resource
Jan 19 13:12:09 <BoD> troulouliou_div2: yes
Jan 19 13:12:18 <troulouliou_div2> pduin, yes indeed ; didn't know that : String string = getString(R.string.hello); thanks !!!
Jan 19 13:12:18 <BoD> troulouliou_div2: and yes
Jan 19 13:12:21 <BoD> almost
Jan 19 13:13:28 <rathodvikas10> Should i make a fragment class singleton or Create new instance every time
Jan 19 13:24:34 <t0th_-_> hi
Jan 19 13:24:48 <t0th_-_> can i do a receiver to check if an app is opened?
Jan 19 13:54:10 <t0th_-_> any?
Jan 19 14:00:49 <Engys> Leeds, only to put the solution for my problem into the log, I missed to add the vendor- and product ID for the nvidia shield into /etc/udev/rules.d/51-android.rules
Jan 19 14:01:20 <Leeds> ah, that... I've got into the - probably bad - habit of running the adbd as root, so it doesn't care about those permissions
Jan 19 14:01:57 <t0th_-_> can i do a receiver to check if an app is opened?
Jan 19 14:09:22 <TECFALL> MaxDate on my datepicker works on a virutal device, but on my actual phone it shows the max date as a selectable date, but i can't select it. Getting pretty irritated. http://pastie.org/10694288 (line 28)
Jan 19 14:10:32 <Engys> Leeds, yep I did not feel that comfortable to spawn the adb server with root permissions so I created a group adbusers to give permission to the devices
Jan 19 14:10:47 <Engys> hope I can remember next time
Jan 19 14:37:21 <TECFALL> Has anyone ever used maxdate with datepickerdialog?
Jan 19 14:41:03 <pfn> jessie, that's not true at all
Jan 19 14:42:38 <pfn> vigilancer, that's good, people should take it
Jan 19 14:50:14 <sarbs> rathodvikas10 do not make your fragment a singleton
Jan 19 14:50:16 <sarbs> that will break things
Jan 19 14:51:12 <sarbs> in fact, with android development, "do not make anything a singleton" is a good rule to live by. in most cases it will break things.
Jan 19 14:52:17 <Mavrik> hmf.
Jan 19 14:52:18 <Mavrik> :)
Jan 19 14:56:55 <rathodvikas10> @sarbs I do not. That what was my question, what is the best way?. I googled it and found Singleton is not the way to go
Jan 19 14:57:51 <rathodvikas10> ty any way :)
Jan 19 14:58:50 <sarbs> rathodvikas10 your fragment needs to have a 0-parameter constructor so that the Fragment Manager can recreate it from scratch on demand. that means that if you want to pass it parameters, you need to do so via the setParameters calls. On my fragments I make static "create(...)" methods that i encapsulate all my creation logic into
Jan 19 14:59:06 <sarbs> i'll see if i can find an example
Jan 19 14:59:17 <pfn> anything that is android lifecycle managed cannot be made singleton
Jan 19 14:59:33 <pfn> outside of that, anything is fair game
Jan 19 15:01:02 <rathodvikas10> @sarbs one more question. Does it make sense to make a singleton to store data in Preference like MyPreference.setObject(object) and MyPreference.getObject()
Jan 19 15:01:02 <sarbs> welp, i don't have any open-source examples, heh.. sorry rathodvikas10. it's a pretty common pattern though, you should be able to find some articles about it.
Jan 19 15:01:15 <sarbs> no
Jan 19 15:02:10 <sarbs> again rathodvikas10, it's almost *never* a good idea to use Singletons with Android
Jan 19 15:02:50 <sarbs> until you're experienced enough to know when that rule doesn't hold, just don't use singletons.
Jan 19 15:03:57 <rathodvikas10> yes i do agree singleton is not a way to go for fragments or any activity related stuff. But preference or network libs like volley is something which is required in all around. So why it is not a good practice to have a singleton for this kind of case?.
Jan 19 15:04:39 <sarbs> the reason is that android tears down and rebuilds your app's components when it chooses. even when your app is "running in the background", it may not actually be running. android will kill the process - thus destroying all your singletons - if it gets low on memory, but still report to your user that the app is open. when the user switches back to your app, android will recreate everything and your app should be able to restore
Jan 19 15:04:39 <sarbs>  its state exactly as it was.
Jan 19 15:05:51 <sarbs> volley is actually one of the exceptions, annoyingly. i created that in my Application.onStart when i used it.
Jan 19 15:06:47 <sarbs> SharedPreferences are expected to be loaded and stored each time you use them however. it does some singleton magic under the covers for you, to optimize things a little bit, but it expects you to use them as one-time things
Jan 19 15:07:21 <TECFALL> Does anyone have experience with using DatePickerDialog?
Jan 19 15:07:23 <DrBenway> anyone managed to record video at high speed programatically?
Jan 19 15:07:41 <DrBenway> if i try to set the profile on the MediaRecorder, it just throws an exeption
Jan 19 15:07:43 <Wulp> Is there an API or permission for access to the hardware encryption (for network communication, not disk). Google just refers to disk encryption.
Jan 19 15:08:18 <rathodvikas10> yes thats what i say. Things like network libs, SharedPreference, SQLLite Provider etc at startup in application onCreate
Jan 19 15:09:40 <rathodvikas10> just initilize there and use them in applicaton till it die, it will reinitilize again
Jan 19 15:19:40 <danijoo> does anybody know what the proper way to tint the text handles of an edit text is?
Jan 19 15:20:11 <danijoo> I could get the resources in code, apply a tint and set them to the edit text, but that sounds like im doing too much work
Jan 19 15:23:30 <pfn> it's colorAccent or primary, I forget
Jan 19 15:23:56 <danijoo> yeah its accent. But i want to change it for a single edittext, not for all of them
Jan 19 15:28:02 <pfn> use a ContextThemeWrapper with colorAccent set to the value you want
Jan 19 15:29:08 <danijoo> good idea
Jan 19 15:30:45 <pfn> and you don't have to. do. it in code. eithet
Jan 19 15:30:55 <pfn> use android:theme in appcompat
Jan 19 15:31:30 <pfn> android:theme doesn't work without appcompat, don't know. how you'd do it in xml without appcompat
Jan 19 15:32:17 <vegetablesalad19> After I start another Activity from my test (like in this example https://gist.github.com/vegetablesalad/2f81a3bfda3d68e0dc59 ), can I continue to test that new activity ?
Jan 19 15:33:28 <danijoo> pfn,  ah >.> I had style= and wondered why it didnt work..
Jan 19 15:33:33 <danijoo> theme works perfectly
Jan 19 15:35:40 <pfn> indeed
Jan 19 15:35:55 <pfn> never tried it
Jan 19 15:40:09 <danijoo> I think ill never understand themes and styles completly.. some things are so weird..
Jan 19 15:40:44 <danijoo> If i set this theme http://pastebin.com/nZtkhX7a as style, it doesnt pick up colorPrimary/secondary etc. But textColor, cursor options are applied
Jan 19 15:40:57 <danijoo> and vice versa
Jan 19 15:41:13 <danijoo> now I need to set it as style AND theme to have all options
Jan 19 15:41:45 <danijoo> because theme applies colorPrimary and style applies the other options
Jan 19 15:42:26 <pfn> because style applies attributes directly to the view
Jan 19 15:42:45 <pfn> and colorAccent is not a legitimate attribute for a view
Jan 19 15:42:45 <danijoo> I probably should do it that way
Jan 19 15:42:56 <danijoo> and better define a style + theme with proper parents..
Jan 19 15:53:14 <bolovanos> hithere
Jan 19 15:58:05 <newguyasdg> hello
Jan 19 15:58:21 <newguyasdg> why when moving project to another folder gives me build errors? (android studio)
Jan 19 16:09:07 <_genuser_> yo devs
Jan 19 16:12:03 <_genuser_> so why is aapl crashing so hard?
Jan 19 16:13:10 <pfn> it's the whole market
Jan 19 16:13:45 <pfn> probably a good time to invest soon
Jan 19 16:15:47 <sarbs> Wulp i wasn't aware of any devices that had hardware-accelerated network encryption
Jan 19 16:15:58 <sarbs> which one(s)?
Jan 19 16:24:32 <Wulp> sarbs - I want to use hardware AES blocks for network traffic.  Most SOC's have hardware AES, just wonder if there is an API for it
Jan 19 16:25:09 <pfn> Wulp, there is not
Jan 19 16:25:25 <pfn> you would call it from the NDK directly
Jan 19 16:25:46 <sarbs> i would be surprised if there's even a unified HAL api for it
Jan 19 16:25:51 <DrBenway> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/34881847/how-to-programmatically-record-high-speed-videos-60-120fps-on-android <-- i created a stack overflow question in case someone knows about this
Jan 19 16:26:34 <Wulp> pfn, I'd need access to the driver, so I'm guessing I need a particular permission in my manifest to access it?
Jan 19 16:27:01 <pfn> Wulp, if it's a device, then you will not have permission without root
Jan 19 16:27:12 <pfn> since. this is outside of. standard android api
Jan 19 16:27:21 <pfn> unless it's a world accessible device
Jan 19 16:28:20 <Wulp> My understanding was that manifest gave 'group' or other access permissions, so if you ask for camera permission, you can directly access the camera device in NDK?
Jan 19 16:28:53 <pfn> the camera is part of android api
Jan 19 16:28:58 <sarbs> it's a whole lot more complicated than that
Jan 19 16:29:00 <pfn> hardware crypto is not
Jan 19 16:29:06 <sarbs> like, a WHOLE lot more
Jan 19 16:30:15 <pfn> why do you need crypto acceleration anyway, and hardware primitives are basic cpu instructions
Jan 19 16:30:23 <sarbs> i would imagine your best bet would be to get in touch with dev outreach teams from manufacturers who you're targeting (htc, samsung, etc) and see if they have any platform-specific apis you can integrate
Jan 19 16:30:31 <pfn> AES is relatively cheap to do in dalvik
Jan 19 16:33:45 <_genuser_> pfn: I see. I clicked away from teh window so didn't see your response.
Jan 19 16:34:03 <_genuser_> pfn: too bad, at this price point they offer mini options. otherwise, geez, those would be so much fun to trade.
Jan 19 16:34:04 <pfn> use the scroll back
Jan 19 16:34:35 <_genuser_> pfn: heh, I saw it now, I just meant sorry didn't respond sooner.
Jan 19 16:34:53 <_genuser_> sometimes people hate responding to a comment and not getting an acknowledgement or something. :)
Jan 19 16:38:33 <easyOnMe> _genuser_: have you used genymotion before
Jan 19 16:38:53 <pfn> regular options are cheap enough
Jan 19 16:39:22 <easyOnMe> anyone here tried using genymotion before
Jan 19 16:39:52 <sarbs> lots, i'm sure easyOnMe
Jan 19 16:40:11 <_genuser_> easyOnMe: nope. no genymotion
Jan 19 16:40:18 <sarbs> i can't figure out why ppl don't just use the HAXM acceleration... apparently nobody even knows that exists, from all the "android emulator sucks, use GM" posts
Jan 19 16:40:23 <_genuser_> pfn: yeah, I haven't funded my acct yet. only 1k in there.
Jan 19 16:40:37 <_genuser_> pfn: my broker requires cash secured put shorting.
Jan 19 16:40:44 <easyOnMe> sarbs: I tried using a samsung galaxy s5 but for some reason it gives me some error like:
Jan 19 16:41:09 <sarbs> easyOnMe oh, i haven't used GM either. it's just a popular emulator
Jan 19 16:41:35 <easyOnMe> sarbs: Unable to start the virtual device. VirtualBox cannot start the virtual device.
Jan 19 16:41:49 <easyOnMe> any ideas why this happens
Jan 19 16:42:06 <_genuser_> virtual box. that's the problem there.
Jan 19 16:42:07 <sarbs> probably a VB error
Jan 19 16:42:09 <easyOnMe> I got the Oracle VM installed as per requirements
Jan 19 16:42:33 <easyOnMe> and GM will not install successfully if Oracle VM was not installed
Jan 19 16:42:42 <easyOnMe> but I did manage to install GM successfully
Jan 19 16:42:49 <sarbs> honestly i'd just uninstall all the VB/GM crap and use intel's haxm acceleration and an x86 emulator image
Jan 19 16:42:51 <easyOnMe> so I was wondering what went wrong here
Jan 19 16:42:54 <sarbs> and use android's standard emu
Jan 19 16:43:13 <easyOnMe> sarbs: I am using ubuntu linux
Jan 19 16:43:25 <easyOnMe> and my laptop does not use intel
Jan 19 16:43:33 <sarbs> even better, linux supports native KVM without needing intel's module
Jan 19 16:43:43 <sarbs> amd/intel same thing for these purposes
Jan 19 16:44:07 <easyOnMe> I tried KVM too but my laptop does not support virtualization technology this really sucks but I have no choice
Jan 19 16:44:22 <easyOnMe> I am a student who is just trying to get by for this thesis project
Jan 19 16:44:29 <_genuser_> what is it vtx?
Jan 19 16:44:29 <pfn> Genymotion will not work
Jan 19 16:44:38 <_genuser_> kvm supports virtualization (hardware based) like sarbs said
Jan 19 16:44:49 <sarbs> easyOnMe if your laptop truly doesn't support virtualization then virtualbox will run dog slow too
Jan 19 16:44:57 <pfn> it requires hardware virt
Jan 19 16:45:00 <sarbs> but every single remotely modern intel device supports virtualization
Jan 19 16:45:06 <sarbs> i would be extremely surprised if yours truly didn't
Jan 19 16:45:10 <sarbs> you might just not have it set up
Jan 19 16:45:11 <sarbs> https://software.intel.com/en-us/android/articles/speeding-up-the-android-emulator-on-intel-architecture
Jan 19 16:45:26 <easyOnMe> sarbs: crap now
Jan 19 16:45:43 <easyOnMe> seems I need to get hold of another laptop unit
Jan 19 16:45:59 <easyOnMe> this really sucks man
Jan 19 16:46:01 <sarbs> well.. easyOnMe what laptop/cpu are you running?
Jan 19 16:46:10 <sarbs> because, again, i would be extremely surprised if it didn't support virt at all
Jan 19 16:46:10 <danijoo> or get a real phone if its only for the thesis
Jan 19 16:46:15 <sarbs> ^^^
Jan 19 16:46:17 <_genuser_> sarbs: some of them ultrabooks have intel CPUs that don't support.
Jan 19 16:46:26 <_genuser_> but I don't think he'd be using an ultrabook for dev work.
Jan 19 16:46:44 <sarbs> _genuser_ yeah my immediate thought was super low power chips
Jan 19 16:46:47 <pfn> I've never had an ultrabook without vtx
Jan 19 16:47:05 <pfn> you mean netbook
Jan 19 16:47:27 <pfn> ultrabook = premium
Jan 19 16:47:37 <_genuser_> I have seen a few iX's on intel site that don't support vtx. and I"ve seen ultras go for the cheapest cpu's to also save power, battery life.
Jan 19 16:47:52 <_genuser_> ultra? hmm, what am I thinking of?
Jan 19 16:48:12 <_genuser_> the super thin ones, that have like 1.7GHz dual core and 10 hours of battery or mroe.
Jan 19 16:48:15 <g00s> neat, linux is getting MAC randomization soon. would be nice if Android had that too :D
Jan 19 16:48:31 <easyOnMe> sarbs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14576080/
Jan 19 16:48:49 <pfn> ugh, driving during traffic hours sucks
Jan 19 16:49:03 <_genuser_> whoa core2 duo? that's an old machine!!
Jan 19 16:49:09 <sarbs> g00s when i was at cyanogen i did that for a hackathon. don't think it ever made it into mainline tho
Jan 19 16:49:11 <g00s> _genuser_ thats what i have :D
Jan 19 16:49:21 <_genuser_> pfn: lol, don't tell me you're driving and irc'ing!!
Jan 19 16:49:27 <MooGoo> is it possible to use a LevelListDrawable as one of the CompoundDrawables on a Button?
Jan 19 16:49:29 <_genuser_> g00s: still? for dev work too?
Jan 19 16:49:31 <g00s> sarbs yeah, Windows 10, iOS, and linux will have it
Jan 19 16:49:35 <MooGoo> cuz it just always shows up blank
Jan 19 16:49:41 <MooGoo> and the docs only talk about using it in an ImageView
Jan 19 16:49:53 <g00s> sarbs http://news.softpedia.com/news/networkmanger-1-2-to-offer-tracking-protection-in-wi-fi-networks-on-linux-systems-499097.shtml
Jan 19 16:49:59 <pfn> _genuser_, at lights
Jan 19 16:50:31 <easyOnMe> _genuser_: yeah man
Jan 19 16:50:34 <pfn> _genuser_, it's a whole motivation for using speech recognition
Jan 19 16:50:38 <easyOnMe> I really got no other choice
Jan 19 16:50:50 <_genuser_> pfn: I saw a vid of a biker on YT, he slaps a drivers window at red light saying put the phone down.
Jan 19 16:50:55 <easyOnMe> but at least using this laptop managed me to go this far in my degree course
Jan 19 16:51:01 <easyOnMe> down to the final lap man
Jan 19 16:51:03 <_genuser_> pfn: well, the guy followed him and actually hit him. causing big injuries.
Jan 19 16:51:05 <easyOnMe> lol
Jan 19 16:51:07 <sarbs> easyOnMe damn
Jan 19 16:51:15 <_genuser_> pfn: but the point was you shoudl encourage people to use the phoen at teh lights and not while driving.
Jan 19 16:51:35 <sarbs> easyOnMe best option might be to just pick up an old galaxy s3 or s4 for $40 off ebay
Jan 19 16:51:45 <_genuser_> pfn: but yeah, I use voice recognition onw also when possible when driving.
Jan 19 16:51:47 <pfn> _genuser_, indeed I would think about Doring him
Jan 19 16:52:07 <_genuser_> haha "dooring" as a verb!
Jan 19 16:52:33 <_genuser_> pfn: he was actually posting it to say look how bad this driver was and how I didn't do anything wrong.
Jan 19 16:52:53 <sarbs> easyOnMe here you go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nexus-5-D820-16GB-Black-T-Mobile-Smartphone-/272105657654?hash=item3f5ac2d536:g:X1MAAOSwqYBWmIX9
Jan 19 16:53:29 <pfn> Holy shit, rain + California drivers = suck
Jan 19 16:53:38 <pfn> 20 minutes for this one light...
Jan 19 16:53:44 <easyOnMe> sarbs: yeah seems this is the way to go
Jan 19 16:53:47 <easyOnMe> thanks sarbs
Jan 19 16:53:55 <_genuser_> pfn: socal?
Jan 19 16:54:03 <sarbs> pfn first part of that sentence is redundant to the second
Jan 19 16:57:01 <_genuser_> so I saw ASUS ZenPhone2 with a DSLR camera.
Jan 19 16:57:03 <_genuser_> only 199.
Jan 19 16:57:11 <_genuser_> but I hear it heats up a lot, etc. etc.
Jan 19 16:57:33 <_genuser_> and I wouldn't mind an nexus 5x but it's twice as much.!
Jan 19 16:58:55 <adq> i saw some bugs in AS, 0$
Jan 19 16:59:07 <_genuser_> just some?
Jan 19 16:59:21 <adq> man, i'm reaching insanity level
Jan 19 16:59:40 <pfn> no, not socal
Jan 19 16:59:43 <pfn> and slr on a phone is pointless
Jan 19 16:59:48 <adq> i have to clean the project now, each time i move something in the xml, IF _only if_ i have a CollapsingToolbarLayout
Jan 19 16:59:57 <adq> 100% reproductible
Jan 19 17:00:11 <adq> it seems to messes the IDs
Jan 19 17:00:17 <TECFALL> anyone familiar with datepickerdialog?
Jan 19 17:00:33 <adq> ask your question directly TECFALL
Jan 19 17:01:03 <danijoo> ^this
Jan 19 17:01:20 <TECFALL> adq: MaxDate on my datepicker works on a virutal device, but on my actual phone it shows the max date as a selectable date, but i can't select it. Getting pretty irritated. http://pastie.org/10694288 (line 28)
Jan 19 17:01:48 <danijoo> TECFALL, did you check if it is because of api version?
Jan 19 17:02:33 <adq> hum, be sure you set "valid" date info, i had a problem in the past with setting hours above the range
Jan 19 17:02:46 <adq> other than that, no idea
Jan 19 17:04:38 <TECFALL> danijoo: how would i check that?
Jan 19 17:05:05 <danijoo> but comparing if it appears on some api versions but not on others..
Jan 19 17:05:49 <TECFALL> adq: setting hours above the range? Would that be something that would happen if i am using setMaxDate(c.getTimeInMillis()); ?
Jan 19 17:06:01 <TECFALL> do i need to strip the h:m:s ?
Jan 19 17:06:55 <TECFALL> danijoo: ah, i see what you're saying. I am just using the most current. But it is weird that it works in the virtual device but not my actual phone.
Jan 19 17:07:25 <danijoo> is your phone also on 23?
Jan 19 17:07:49 <TECFALL> danijoo: no still on KK. I have the note 5
Jan 19 17:07:58 <danijoo> you said most current.
Jan 19 17:08:03 <danijoo> KK is not most current
Jan 19 17:08:15 <TECFALL> sorry, i meant i was developing my app FOR the most current
Jan 19 17:08:25 <danijoo> what version is your emulator?
Jan 19 17:08:48 <Elezium> Hi folks, did anyone read this book, is it good?   https://leanpub.com/kotlin-for-android-developers
Jan 19 17:08:52 <TECFALL> danijoo: 6.0
Jan 19 17:09:20 <TECFALL> danijoo: how do i set up a emulator for a note 5?
Jan 19 17:09:21 <danijoo> TECFALL, thats what I meant when I said check if it is a version problem
Jan 19 17:09:50 <danijoo> it might be KK handling setMaxDate differently then Marshmallow.
Jan 19 17:10:39 <perlsyntax> hey all
Jan 19 17:12:38 <g00s> Elezium i'd get the one from Manning, but its still in MEAP
Jan 19 17:13:23 <g00s> the Manning one is from the kotlin people
Jan 19 17:13:41 <g00s> https://www.manning.com/books/kotlin-in-action
Jan 19 17:14:24 <Elezium> g00s, worth it?
Jan 19 17:14:36 <g00s> Elezium the manning one?
Jan 19 17:14:45 <Elezium> yeah
Jan 19 17:15:35 <g00s> i don't know - but since its from the horse's mouth, given choice i'd pick that one
Jan 19 17:15:55 <Elezium> make sense.  I'll probably get both.  thanks. ;)
Jan 19 17:15:58 <g00s> scheduled to be finished in a few months, you can start reading it now and probably will be done by the time you get to the end
Jan 19 17:16:34 <Elezium> yup, that's not a big deal,  I'm learning on my own time, so a bit limited.
Jan 19 17:19:19 <_genuser_> pfn: guess I have driving in socal but I miss the entire beach feel. I only go there for a visit. and it's always so .... relaxed. people are just driving around in tank tops.
Jan 19 17:20:42 <pfn> driving in socal sucks
Jan 19 17:20:52 <pfn> worse than in silicon valley\
Jan 19 17:21:05 <_genuser_> pfn: so where are you? the valley?
Jan 19 17:33:54 <Looney> Small question, I have three fragments
Jan 19 17:34:10 <g00s> a story of three little fraggies :)
Jan 19 17:34:18 <Looney> I get the data for them in their onActivityCreated
Jan 19 17:34:34 <Looney> Is there some way for me to get data only when user has navigated to 'em
Jan 19 17:36:31 <Looney> Looks like all fragments are created/populated on activity's onCreate
Jan 19 17:36:38 <Looney> I hope and pray I am wrong
Jan 19 17:37:01 <s73v3r> do the data fetching in onAttach?
Jan 19 17:37:17 * Looney goes off to d.android.com
Jan 19 17:37:29 <s73v3r> or, keep it the way it is, and enjoy having a head start on loading the data for the other fragments?
Jan 19 17:37:56 <pfn> onResume/onStart is a good place to fetch the data
Jan 19 17:38:02 <pfn> if that's what you want
Jan 19 17:39:23 <Looney> So, I will be definitely looking into them  pfn
Jan 19 17:39:26 <Looney> sounds good
Jan 19 17:41:24 <Looney> over and out, calling it a day  :-)
Jan 19 18:02:28 <MooGoo> does SupportMenuInflater like not exist anymore?
Jan 19 18:02:37 <MooGoo> I just updated stuff and now it's red in the import list
Jan 19 18:03:51 <MooGoo> and nothing works with regular MenuInflater cuz I'm using the support libs
Jan 19 18:05:04 <MooGoo> er
Jan 19 18:05:12 <MooGoo> I guess it just moved
Jan 19 18:05:51 <MooGoo> android.support.v7.internal.view.SupportMenuInflater to android.support.v7.view.SupportMenuInflater
Jan 19 18:13:00 <Calguy> Hi... any of I enqueue an OKHTTP request and in the reponse call backs it throws an exception, where and how would I catch that since it's running in the background? this is just for OKHTTP not retrofit
Jan 19 18:18:00 <easyOnMe> hi
Jan 19 18:18:09 <easyOnMe> I got this message from the android studio
Jan 19 18:18:11 <easyOnMe> import android.support.design.widget.FloatingActionButton;
Jan 19 18:18:11 <easyOnMe> import android.support.design.widget.Snackbar;
Jan 19 18:18:18 <easyOnMe> it says cannot resolve symbol
Jan 19 18:18:32 <easyOnMe> the FloatingActionButton and Snackbar are colored red
Jan 19 18:18:34 <easyOnMe> what is wrong
Jan 19 18:18:38 <easyOnMe> here
Jan 19 18:18:44 <s73v3r> did you add the design support library?
Jan 19 18:20:26 <easyOnMe> s73v3r: wait let me check
Jan 19 18:21:58 <Calguy> which design support library s73v3r? appcompat or whats the latest 3rd party?
Jan 19 18:22:05 <Calguy> also if anyone has any answer for my okhttp question
Jan 19 18:22:07 <s73v3r> the design support library
Jan 19 18:22:29 <s73v3r> and Calguy: you catch that exception just like you’d catch any other exception
Jan 19 18:23:29 <Calguy> s73v3r catch it where? it runs asynchronusly so who would catch it?
Jan 19 18:24:08 <s73v3r> doesn’t matter if it runs asynchronously. you’d surround the potential exception lines with try/catch, like anywhere else in the app
Jan 19 18:24:13 <Calguy> eg I can't catch it where I call enqueue because when it throws the exception it would no longer be in that method s73v3r
Jan 19 18:24:14 <s73v3r> catch doesn’t have to run on the main thread
Jan 19 18:24:26 <easyOnMe> s73v3r: thanks that solved my problem
Jan 19 18:24:30 <easyOnMe> one more thing
Jan 19 18:24:40 <easyOnMe> I got this when I reboot my android studio: IBus prior to 1.5.11 may cause input problem. See IDEA-78860 for details.
Jan 19 18:24:41 <Calguy> s73v3r it doesn't so which thread would I run it on? it creates it's own thread so I have no idea how to do that
Jan 19 18:24:44 <s73v3r> Calguy: Then go look at where it’s actually being thrown
Jan 19 18:25:07 <s73v3r> Calguy: Threads have nothing to do with it. You catch an exception where it’s thrown
Jan 19 18:25:20 <s73v3r> easyOnMe: No idea
Jan 19 18:25:20 <easyOnMe> s73v3r: that should I do with the message I got as I always encounter it everytime I boot up android studio
Jan 19 18:25:27 <easyOnMe> s73v3r: thanks
Jan 19 18:25:52 <Calguy> s73v3r ah well I have tried to do that and all I get is a stackdump that doesn't list any of my code... it has to be caught on the thread where it's thrown right?
Jan 19 18:26:05 <s73v3r> yes
Jan 19 18:26:18 <Calguy> right so how do I do that s73v3r? right now all I'm getting is
Jan 19 18:26:24 <Calguy> 01-18 16:25:31.772 26955-29346/com.google.android.apps.trainup W/System.err: java.net.SocketTimeoutException: timeout
Jan 19 18:26:24 <Calguy> 01-18 16:25:31.802 26955-29346/com.google.android.apps.trainup W/System.err:     at okio.Okio$3.newTimeoutException(Okio.java:207)
Jan 19 18:26:24 <Calguy> 01-18 16:25:31.802 26955-29346/com.google.android.apps.trainup W/System.err:     at okio.AsyncTimeout.exit(AsyncTimeout.java:250)
Jan 19 18:26:27 <Calguy> ...ryv
Jan 19 18:26:28 <s73v3r> do not copy here
Jan 19 18:26:33 <Calguy> ...etc
Jan 19 18:26:41 <Calguy> just 3 lines
Jan 19 18:26:58 <s73v3r> follow the stack trace down, but it looks like a timeout error
Jan 19 18:27:01 <Calguy> but anyway it just seems to be running on a background thread and throwing an exception
Jan 19 18:27:26 <Calguy> it is a timeout error and that is fine, there will be timeout errors from time to time I am just trying to figure out, where I would catch that?
Jan 19 18:27:49 <Calguy> what's important atm is the exception, not what kind it is (timeout, bad url, whatever)
Jan 19 18:28:02 <s73v3r> you would catch it where it’s thrown
Jan 19 18:28:09 <s73v3r> but it’s not in your code
Jan 19 18:28:27 <Calguy> s73v3r yes and where would it be thrown? right so how do I catch that? it seems silly to raise exceptions that can't be caught
Jan 19 18:28:57 <s73v3r> it’s being thrown in the library code
Jan 19 18:29:16 <Calguy> s73v3r sure so where do I catch it?
Jan 19 18:29:46 <s73v3r> you’re gonna have to paste your code where you’re calling the library
Jan 19 18:30:55 <Calguy> i was hoping JakeWharton would be here it seems like he's not
Jan 19 18:31:10 <Calguy> ok i'll paste it s73v3r give me a second
Jan 19 18:35:17 <Calguy> s73v3r look at line 37 and pls lmk where I would catch that since it runs on a different threaded created by okhttp itself http://pastebin.com/0gP3G9e6
Jan 19 18:35:36 <s73v3r> this is your code, right?
Jan 19 18:35:46 <Calguy> yes
Jan 19 18:35:48 <s73v3r> don’t
Jan 19 18:35:53 <s73v3r> don’t throw an exception there
Jan 19 18:36:00 <s73v3r> you should have an error callback passed in
Jan 19 18:36:25 <Calguy> the exception throwing part was part of the code that came from the recipes on the OKHTTP site s73v3r
Jan 19 18:36:35 <Calguy> so it is partially my code but based on their prototype
Jan 19 18:36:55 <s73v3r> i still would not throw an exception
Jan 19 18:36:59 <Calguy> THEIR example had that throw in it so I presume it can be caught somewhere? how? and I do have an onFailure
Jan 19 18:37:37 <Calguy> ok well still THEY expect it to work and its odd they would have that in onResponse because there is an onFailure
Jan 19 18:38:05 <Calguy> i am adding some logging code to girure out whre it's getting called but pls lmk whre exceptions would be caught in any event (no pun intended) st7
Jan 19 18:38:08 <Calguy> s73v3r
Jan 19 18:38:17 <jessie> Does the onFailure get passed an exception?
Jan 19 18:38:26 <Calguy> yes
Jan 19 18:38:31 <unit73e> Hello
Jan 19 18:38:34 <Calguy>  public void onFailure(Request request, IOException throwable) {
Jan 19 18:38:40 <Calguy> it's on that pastebin
Jan 19 18:38:42 <unit73e> In the official android page they never have layout elements as fields of an Activity. What they do is always call 'findViewById'. Is that the correct way to go?
Jan 19 18:38:54 <Calguy> they both get passed throwables s73v3r
Jan 19 18:39:22 <Calguy> unit73e you can make them fields but you stil have to findViewById
Jan 19 18:39:26 <Calguy> it's not C# ;)
Jan 19 18:39:34 <SimonVT> He's asking if onFailure is called if you throw an IOException in onResponse
Jan 19 18:39:44 <jessie> And I believe it is.
Jan 19 18:39:53 <SimonVT> Then there's your answer
Jan 19 18:40:01 <unit73e> Calguy: I'm aware of that but I thought it was a good practive to always call findByViewId
Jan 19 18:40:25 <jessie> I would assume the library has a try/catch around the onResponse. If onResponse throws an error, okhttp calls the onFailure method with that exception.
Jan 19 18:40:27 <unit73e> like there would be some kind of racing condition if you had them as fields or something like that
Jan 19 18:41:07 <unit73e> If there isn't I don't see a reason to always call findViewById
Jan 19 18:41:34 <jessie> Using fields is perfectly valid so long as you manage the activity lifecycle correctly.
Jan 19 18:42:17 <unit73e> jessie: ok thanks
Jan 19 18:42:52 <unit73e> I'll just use as fields than :)
Jan 19 18:47:10 <Calguy> ok jessie thanks that never made sence why it would throw that exception
Jan 19 18:47:19 <Calguy> i'll give it a try
Jan 19 18:47:38 <Calguy> never made sense when onFailure would be called
Jan 19 18:48:22 <jessie> Well, onFailure would be called if an exception is thrown in onResponse or as part of the actual HTTP request that okhttp is doing.
Jan 19 18:48:33 <jessie> I.e. a host not found error or something similar.
Jan 19 18:48:48 <Calguy> by the way is there a standard library/dialog for catching and retrying network errors? the code base I inherited has their own retry logic dialog but it's a fucking rat sewer that causes insanity along with the rest of their ancient httpurlconnection based crapola
Jan 19 18:52:42 <danijoo> Calguy, syncadapter has an automatic periodic retry on failure
Jan 19 18:52:53 <danijoo> but thats only for syncing
Jan 19 18:53:01 <danijoo> nor for everyday http requests
Jan 19 18:56:30 <Calguy> danijoo okhttp has periodic retry to but i still want to ultimately have a dialog if there is a network or server error
Jan 19 18:57:01 <Calguy> also in AS if the manifest says minsdk=10 and targetsdk=21 then I still have to make those changes in the build.gradle right?
Jan 19 18:57:17 <danijoo> gradle overrides manifest
Jan 19 18:57:24 <danijoo> you can delete the manifest lines
Jan 19 18:57:26 <danijoo> if u weant
Jan 19 19:03:00 <Calguy> right danijoo I recently upgraded to AS 2.0 canary and it's cool but I want the gradle files to be compatible with the old 1.5.1 stuff any idea about that? or anyone else on maintaining compatible projects
Jan 19 19:03:57 <danijoo> gradle and AS are different things
Jan 19 19:03:57 <Calguy> i really hate that so many android files cause collisions with other developers (mainfiest/strings/styles/etc)
Jan 19 19:03:58 <pfn> you can't be compatible if you want to use 2.0 features
Jan 19 19:04:00 <Calguy> it's so suck
Jan 19 19:04:21 <pfn> so many collisions?
Jan 19 19:04:26 <Calguy> pfn it seems I could I tested it for AS 2.0 r 4 and it worked
Jan 19 19:04:42 <danijoo> AS 2.0 only changes the gradle plugin version
Jan 19 19:04:44 <Calguy> pfn yes so many devs have to modify the same shared (global) files like manifest/strings etc
Jan 19 19:04:45 <danijoo> nothing more
Jan 19 19:05:01 <Calguy> danijoo right so 1.5.1 can download that?
Jan 19 19:05:07 <pfn> strings resources get modified pretty heavily, not manifest
Jan 19 19:05:22 <danijoo> Calguy, i didnt tried it but its one line of code if anyone wants to change it on your project
Jan 19 19:05:23 <Calguy> pfn they both do -- anytime a dev adds a dialog it's  amanifest change
Jan 19 19:05:35 <pfn> a dialog isn't an activity, and doesn't result in a manifest change
Jan 19 19:05:45 <Calguy> pfn btw the tech you wree talking about you created that did hot swapping...is that what they are using for AS 2.0 or is it similar or different?
Jan 19 19:05:49 <jnewt> i can't seem to get my app (which i never finished) to launch from android studio v1.5 (Nov 15th 2015) to the avd(api 22) i get a connect to target and then immediate disconnect and the avd just say unfortunatly MyApplication has stopped.  where can i find more information as to why?
Jan 19 19:05:49 <Calguy> ok i mean activity
Jan 19 19:06:03 <pfn> Calguy, it does similar things, but work differently
Jan 19 19:06:10 <Calguy> whenever someone adds an activity they change the manifest so if yo uhave 5 devs creating activities it's the suck
Jan 19 19:06:23 <pfn> you generally shouldn't have 5 developers constantly creating activities
Jan 19 19:06:24 <Calguy> pfn dayam i thought you sold it for a bazillion
Jan 19 19:06:27 <pfn> activities are pretty set in stone
Jan 19 19:06:54 <Calguy> pfn well know but i have a dev that creates activities and it localizing all the labels so it is constnatly modifying the manifest and it is the suq
Jan 19 19:07:27 <Calguy> they add activities and add localization strings, i add activities, constant merges
Jan 19 19:07:31 * pfn shrugs
Jan 19 19:07:32 <danijoo> labels should be outsourced to strings.xml anyways
Jan 19 19:07:34 <Calguy> and strings is even worse
Jan 19 19:07:37 <pfn> you can have multiple strings.xml files anyway
Jan 19 19:07:50 <pfn> usually split up values xml by teams
Jan 19 19:07:53 <pfn> so that they don't collide
Jan 19 19:07:58 <Calguy> well now the strings are being generated by PO files
Jan 19 19:08:07 <danijoo> thats literally what git merges are for..
Jan 19 19:08:17 <pfn> that's easy then
Jan 19 19:08:19 <Calguy> anyone using PO files?
Jan 19 19:08:21 <pfn> if they're only generated
Jan 19 19:08:28 <pfn> generate them in a build step
Jan 19 19:08:37 <Calguy> pfn they stil have to update some files manually
Jan 19 19:08:58 <Calguy> danijoo no shit but it creates unneccesarry merges because of all these global files like manifest/strings etc
Jan 19 19:09:01 <Calguy> it's just poor design
Jan 19 19:09:11 <pfn> this would be the case in any system
Jan 19 19:09:13 <danijoo> its not.
Jan 19 19:09:16 <pfn> not the least bit poor design
Jan 19 19:09:23 <Calguy> it's not th ecase in any system
Jan 19 19:09:29 * pfn has 100 developers working on android app, this hasn't been a concern
Jan 19 19:09:42 <danijoo> if you change some strings, you obviously have to merge somethig
Jan 19 19:09:43 <Calguy> you dont have to have a manifest to add activivites in C#
Jan 19 19:09:45 <danijoo> because you changed something
Jan 19 19:09:48 <danijoo> why is that bad design
Jan 19 19:10:13 <Calguy> pfn 100 devs? what app has 100 devs on it? most android apps have 1-5, most i've seen is 15-20...what are you working on that has 100 ?
Jan 19 19:10:18 <danijoo> in c#.... you compare a language to a framework ..
Jan 19 19:10:30 <danijoo> you dont need a manifest in java too :p
Jan 19 19:10:31 <Calguy> danijoo: globals are always bad design
Jan 19 19:10:32 <jessie> Calguy: Facebook?
Jan 19 19:10:59 <grekkos> is it safe to use Objects.hash(...) to generate a hashCode on android?
Jan 19 19:11:11 <Calguy> danijoo: i mean C# as well as WPF asp.net etc same deal
Jan 19 19:11:33 <Calguy> so pfn works at FB? that's cool...I still don't get what the ap pversion of FB does that the web version doesn't
Jan 19 19:11:52 <jessie> Calguy: I don't know if he actually works at FB, but that's about the only thing that comes to mind.
Jan 19 19:11:54 <Calguy> so you work at fb pfn? ever pair up with Kent Beck? I hear he works there but more on the php side
Jan 19 19:11:56 <jessie> That or maybe google?
Jan 19 19:12:02 <pfn> no, I don't work at fb
Jan 19 19:12:07 <Calguy> well I am working on a google project actually
Jan 19 19:12:13 <danijoo> you compare apples and oranges.
Jan 19 19:12:17 <Calguy> but it only has 1 or 2 developres to it
Jan 19 19:12:28 <Calguy> danijoo in what way?
Jan 19 19:12:33 <pfn> uh, in C# you have a shit of a time merging changed form designers and assembly info
Jan 19 19:12:58 <Calguy> pfn forms are 7 years ago now its WPF but even so there are no global files to be modified
Jan 19 19:14:11 <pfn> wpf has the same problem
Jan 19 19:14:16 <pfn> worse off
Jan 19 19:14:36 <danijoo> whats the problem with merging string xml. its single line changes
Jan 19 19:14:42 <danijoo> git has tools for that
Jan 19 19:14:54 <danijoo> if you have problems with that in your company, your architecture suck
Jan 19 19:16:16 <pfn> organize changes properly
Jan 19 19:16:26 <pfn> not add shit chaotically
Jan 19 19:18:04 <jessie> That only works if the developers aren't shit, pfn
Jan 19 19:18:08 <Calguy> you're missing the point but that's ok
Jan 19 19:18:17 <danijoo> whats the point?
Jan 19 19:18:29 <Calguy> the point is modifying the same LINES in a file
Jan 19 19:18:30 <jessie> That having a global file for changes in any part of the app is bad
Jan 19 19:18:35 <Calguy> that too
Jan 19 19:18:45 <Calguy> especially when yhou have to have several devs modify the same LINE
Jan 19 19:18:47 <danijoo> jessie, you dont have to do that
Jan 19 19:18:56 <jessie> danijoo: That's what my next point was going to be.
Jan 19 19:18:59 <Calguy> if they aren't the same lines merges are painless
Jan 19 19:19:02 <danijoo> if someone has all strings in the same xml, its his problem
Jan 19 19:19:14 <jessie> The only thing that is really global would be app build config type stuff.
Jan 19 19:19:19 <Calguy> well the maifest is like that danijoo
Jan 19 19:19:37 <jessie> How often are you making changes to the manifest though?
Jan 19 19:19:39 <danijoo> Calguy, dont tell me you are touching the manifest 5 times a day..
Jan 19 19:19:39 <Calguy> if someone changes label from "Sexxor screen" to "@string/sexxor_screen"
Jan 19 19:19:40 <jessie> Adding new activities
Jan 19 19:19:46 <Calguy> jessie every day
Jan 19 19:19:49 <jessie> Or version changes
Jan 19 19:19:50 <danijoo> Calguy, then its bad design
Jan 19 19:19:59 <Calguy> yes manifest is a bad design
Jan 19 19:20:01 <danijoo> make it a @string/ the first time
Jan 19 19:20:06 <danijoo> and then change the string xml
Jan 19 19:20:30 <Calguy> hey danijoo that predated me and that wasnt in the budget at the time and it is not at all unusual that strings start as US or whatever country honly
Jan 19 19:20:36 <danijoo> its you doing it wrong if it was ¨Sexxor screen¨ at first
Jan 19 19:20:37 <Calguy> and after the app gets traction they localize
Jan 19 19:20:48 <Calguy> see above danijoo ^^
Jan 19 19:20:54 <danijoo> thats not the problem of android then
Jan 19 19:21:03 <danijoo> its the problem of people not thinking far enough
Jan 19 19:21:04 <Calguy> danijoo it has other similar problems
Jan 19 19:21:28 <danijoo> like?
Jan 19 19:21:33 <Calguy> danijoo people can onlyh think so far when they have 3 months of financing and sstart out in US market
Jan 19 19:22:01 <jessie> Putting a string in the strings.xml file vs in the codebase isn't something that requires a lot of foresight.
Jan 19 19:22:04 <Calguy> danijoo like lots of global files .. strings, values, manifests, styles, themes
Jan 19 19:22:04 <DrBenway> how do you simulate bad networking with your device? i tried to use a proxy but if i start blocking the traffic, my phone just bypasses the proxy o_O
Jan 19 19:22:06 <danijoo> I dont need more then 3 month to think far enough to use strings.xml
Jan 19 19:22:21 <jessie> That's like... Android 101 stuff.
Jan 19 19:22:41 <Calguy> jessie and it's totally unnecessary for a one of language which most apps are
Jan 19 19:22:46 <danijoo> all the files you just mentioned are not global besides manifest. strings values, styles and themes can be distributed among multiple files
Jan 19 19:22:52 <Calguy> like that super cat app thing that it is japanese only
Jan 19 19:22:52 <danijoo> and even Manifests can be merged if you want
Jan 19 19:23:05 <danijoo> if you dont use the tools the system gives you, thats not the problem of the system
Jan 19 19:23:08 <Calguy> as long as you don't change the same line
Jan 19 19:23:21 <jessie> Calguy: Having them in the strings.xml isn't just useful for localization.
Jan 19 19:23:44 <Calguy> danijoo even if they were in strings.xml you could have 5 devs modifying that file at once
Jan 19 19:23:54 <grekkos> do you guys write hashCode methods manually or use some utility like Arrays.hashCode
Jan 19 19:24:12 <Calguy> anyway need to get back to work but if anyone knows why wifi adb is so damn slow LMK it makes no sense...it's like 5-10x slower than usb
Jan 19 19:24:42 <s73v3r> Calguy: It doesn’t matter how much financing you have. these are just best practices. They’re not “best practices if you have time”
Jan 19 19:24:56 <Calguy> s73v3r tell that to all the shoe string clients
Jan 19 19:25:03 <s73v3r> no, you tell them that
Jan 19 19:25:07 <Calguy> s73v3r you are in a company of 50+ IIRC
Jan 19 19:25:17 <s73v3r> or better yet, don’t give them a choice
Jan 19 19:25:21 <Calguy> sure I'll go tell them they should have done it a year ago
Jan 19 19:25:29 <Calguy> i have plenty to tell them about the architecture
Jan 19 19:25:40 <Calguy> how it's a tear down
Jan 19 19:25:44 <danijoo> better tell them then tell us ^^
Jan 19 19:26:00 <Calguy> it doesn't change the fact that android has a shitload of bad design baked in
Jan 19 19:26:19 <s73v3r> i won’t argue there, but that doesn’t mean you have to add to it
Jan 19 19:26:24 <Calguy> like...f.f.fffff...ffffffragments
Jan 19 19:26:25 <jessie> There's some bad design, but the values, layouts, etc. isn't where it's at.
Jan 19 19:26:39 <jessie> Fragments suck, vendor updates suck
Jan 19 19:26:39 <danijoo> string.xml is definitly not one of those bad designs
Jan 19 19:26:45 <Calguy> it mayh be minor compared to some larger issues
Jan 19 19:27:02 <Calguy> bbiab
Jan 19 19:27:05 <danijoo> string.xml is awesome and makes it super easy to localize
Jan 19 19:27:24 <_genuser_> strings.xml ++
Jan 19 19:28:18 <s73v3r> the only thing I’d like is a little more guidance on how you should store strings and colors. Should every separate instance of a piece of text be it’s own entry, or should you have one that you reference all over?
Jan 19 19:29:12 <jessie> I'd say that depends. If it's something pretty common like "Save" I'd just have one entry.
Jan 19 19:29:15 <danijoo> I guess whatever minimizes your work
Jan 19 19:30:06 <_genuser_> yeah, if you want Save everywhere in your app to be changed intantly to "blah blah" one entry makes more sense.
Jan 19 19:30:33 <danijoo> if I need a string more then once i usually make one string entry for that and reference that from others
Jan 19 19:30:47 <danijoo> ie: <string name=¨global_save¨>Save</string>
Jan 19 19:30:48 <s73v3r> i like that approach
Jan 19 19:31:06 <_genuser_> but you have the word global in the name.
Jan 19 19:31:10 <_genuser_> and that's as good as a global var.
Jan 19 19:31:17 <danijoo> and then <string name=¨dialog_save_comment¨>@string/global_save</sstring>
Jan 19 19:31:19 <_genuser_> the pundits will shame you endlessly on their blogs...
Jan 19 19:31:23 <danijoo> that way i can change all or only one
Jan 19 19:31:59 <danijoo> + I can easily localize if the string is not the same for other languages
Jan 19 19:32:13 <grekkos> does anyone use anything like apache commons on android or is that considered too heavy for mobile?
Jan 19 19:32:34 <jessie> You could use it but most will probably suggest that you don't.
Jan 19 19:32:44 <jessie> What are you wanting to use from Apache Commons?
Jan 19 19:33:03 <grekkos> just curious... some small bits here and there that I could effectively rewrite myself
Jan 19 19:33:27 <grekkos> I think there's a hashcode builder in there? or is it equals builder? or both? i don't remember
Jan 19 19:33:30 <grekkos> and some string methods
Jan 19 19:33:56 <grekkos> I don't need a whole lot but some select bits would be nice
Jan 19 19:54:27 <g00s> http://www.gizmag.com/odg-smartglasses-r7-review-hands-on/41395/
Jan 19 19:56:29 <dofidum> how good/bad is a user acquisition percentage (play store, organic) of ~9%?
Jan 19 19:58:05 <grekkos> I'm not too sure dofidum but I think it also might depend on what you consider acquisitiion ?
Jan 19 19:58:20 <danijoo> i have 25%
Jan 19 19:58:29 <dofidum> grekkos, percentage of installs?
Jan 19 19:58:35 <danijoo> but I think it really depends on what kind of app
Jan 19 19:59:08 <dofidum> danijoo, it's a game... so nobody will be looking for it specifically
Jan 19 19:59:27 <dofidum> danijoo, 25% is pretty good! what sort of app is that?
Jan 19 20:00:30 <danijoo> I guess because its something people really want if they search for it
Jan 19 20:02:34 <g00s> anyone have any idea, how gmail keeps one action bar icon over the master section with the others over the detail section, when in landscape ?
Jan 19 20:02:42 <dofidum> danijoo, thanks for the info :)
Jan 19 20:04:33 <danijoo> g00s, on tablets?
Jan 19 20:04:41 <g00s> yeah
Jan 19 20:12:10 <s73v3r> g00s: are you saying there’s two action bars?
Jan 19 20:12:46 <g00s> s73v3r is there are 2 action bars , the could be aligned [ actionbar 1][actionbar 2]
Jan 19 20:13:08 <g00s> but yeah in master detail, each fragments actions are still over its fragment
Jan 19 20:13:12 <danijoo> do you have a screenshot for that?
Jan 19 20:13:15 <s73v3r> i think there’s just one action bar
Jan 19 20:13:18 <danijoo> my tablet is off charge
Jan 19 20:13:22 <g00s> so you don't see the list's actions all jammed up in the right
Jan 19 20:13:29 <g00s> with the details as one blob
Jan 19 20:16:54 <danijoo> maybe its a separate toolbar in each fragment?
Jan 19 20:17:51 <g00s> maybe
Jan 19 20:17:54 <s73v3r> i remember there being a post, not sure if it was from Google or not, about the layout of the gmail app
Jan 19 20:18:04 <s73v3r> it highlighted the different fragments used
Jan 19 20:18:17 <s73v3r> unfortunately my google-fu is failing me right now
Jan 19 20:18:30 <g00s> s73v3r ok cool, no problem. if you ever find it, please do pass it along
Jan 19 20:20:50 <g00s> oh boy. north east usa 'blizzard for the ages'
Jan 19 20:27:56 <g00s> s73v3r there is this article, but more about slidingPaneLayout http://blog.sqisland.com/2015/01/partial-slidingpanelayout.html
Jan 19 20:28:42 <s73v3r> i don’t think that’s it. the one i’m thinking of has a picture of the tablet interface, and then the different fragments highlighted with colored boxes
Jan 19 20:28:58 <g00s> oh, sounds interesting
Jan 19 20:41:56 <pfn> with a debug rom, you can use hierarchy viewer to see wtf it's doing
Jan 19 20:42:18 <pfn> you can get an idea by showing view. bounds in dev options
Jan 19 20:43:22 <pfn> you could probably repackage any existing apk and flip debug on
Jan 19 20:44:01 <danijoo> seems like this isnt even neccessary on the emulator
Jan 19 20:44:31 <danijoo> today i wanted to see how something is done in an other app and i just moved the apk from my phone to the emulator without making it a debuggable apk
Jan 19 20:44:39 <danijoo> and hierarchy viewer worked
Jan 19 20:44:40 <pfn> emulator is a debug rom
Jan 19 20:44:52 <danijoo> yes
Jan 19 20:45:03 <pfn> you can't just drop gmail on the emulator, though
Jan 19 20:45:17 <pfn> Maybe you can with a gapps image
Jan 19 20:45:21 * pfn shrugs 
Jan 19 20:45:30 <danijoo> you can drop gapps on it i think
Jan 19 20:50:09 <danijoo> dex limit reached with proguard. time to finally move to multidex for production.. meh.
Jan 19 20:57:49 <pfn> how hard do you have to try to hit the dex limit with proguard on...
Jan 19 21:01:26 <pfn> it's taken some really big apps for me to cross. that line...
Jan 19 21:06:44 <g00s> lol, just happened to be gmail AB color is same as boundary
Jan 19 21:07:03 <g00s> but yeah, looks like 1 actionbar
Jan 19 21:07:09 <jim87> hello! I've created an apk containing just a service, which, in theory, is being executed by an external app. I've built the apk and installed it, then I've run the app which should call the service... Problem is that it seems to do nothing! (though there's no error during the startService command)........ am I missing anything?
Jan 19 21:07:34 <jim87> (I even tried to log the action's name in the service's onStartCommand method)
Jan 19 21:07:57 <g00s> jim87 is the service public ?
Jan 19 21:08:21 <jim87> g00s: it's enabled and exported
Jan 19 21:08:33 <g00s> hm
Jan 19 21:08:36 <jim87> it has even got a custom permission for it
Jan 19 21:09:00 <Calguy> why do i only have an intermidiate v23 folder and not an explicit one? hwere does it generaeate it from?
Jan 19 21:12:32 <danijoo> jim87, if you dont show code, we can only guess
Jan 19 21:13:06 <danijoo> Calguy, i think android studio makes debug buildss only for the selected target device and skips the others
Jan 19 21:13:48 <danijoo> ie if you choose a 23 device for debugging, it will skip unneccessary resource folders and only create v23 versions
Jan 19 21:14:13 <jim87> danijoo: http://pastebin.com/zrSNN6Y5
Jan 19 21:14:59 <jim87> (even tried onStart to catch all the calls)
Jan 19 21:16:24 <pfn> look at logcat during the start service call
Jan 19 21:16:44 <pfn> also, apps that declare permissions must be installed before apps that use them
Jan 19 21:16:52 <pfn> or the permission will never be granted
Jan 19 21:17:19 <jim87> yep of course
Jan 19 21:17:21 <danijoo> hm... i never used setClassName
Jan 19 21:17:27 <jim87> problem the start service call reports no log
Jan 19 21:17:39 <danijoo> shouldnt it be simple new Intent(¨com.ags_it.posthellocityupdater.MainService¨)
Jan 19 21:17:46 <pfn> jim87, read all of logcat, not any process log
Jan 19 21:17:54 <pfn> danijoo, that's action
Jan 19 21:18:06 <jim87> btw using adb shell, running: am startservice com.ags_it.posthellocityupdater\.MainService
Jan 19 21:18:15 <jim87> it returns Error: not found (?!?)
Jan 19 21:18:30 <pfn> jim87, of course it's not found
Jan 19 21:18:40 <pfn> you must specify both package and class name
Jan 19 21:18:49 <pfn> you only specified class name
Jan 19 21:19:05 <jim87> so it's com.ags_it.posthellocityupdater\com.ags_it.posthellocityupdater.MainService ?
Jan 19 21:19:31 <pfn> since when is \ the same as
Jan 19 21:19:34 <pfn> /
Jan 19 21:19:42 <jim87> right
Jan 19 21:23:56 <pfn> I guess that means problem solved
Jan 19 21:24:56 <jim87> uhm... it starts the activity from am, but not from startActivity
Jan 19 21:30:19 <pfn> huh
Jan 19 21:30:38 <pfn> setClassName does not set package
Jan 19 21:31:35 <jim87> String packageName, String className <--?
Jan 19 21:38:23 <pfn> that's a pretty good hint when such a thing exists
Jan 19 21:40:25 <jim87> I've tried with and without namespace
Jan 19 21:40:41 <jim87> i.e. packageName (ok) and with simply MainService or with full namespace
Jan 19 21:41:16 <jetole> Hey guys. Is there a way I can create a web service or socket where I can limit access only to my android apps?
Jan 19 21:41:37 <danijoo> jetole, you cant make it imposssible for others to access it
Jan 19 21:41:43 <danijoo> you can make it hard though
Jan 19 21:41:50 <jetole> I'm open to ideas
Jan 19 21:42:07 <danijoo> jetole, client side ssl certificates is an optio
Jan 19 21:42:11 <jetole> FYI I am not a dev but a backend devops guy who will be looking more into the service side than the app dev
Jan 19 21:42:34 <s73v3r> API keys are another possibility, but really only useful if you have more than one app
Jan 19 21:42:40 <jetole> danijoo, and I distribute the client cert with the app?
Jan 19 21:42:45 <danijoo> jetole, yeah
Jan 19 21:42:51 <danijoo> then api keys yes
Jan 19 21:42:56 <pfn> the client cert can always be extracted from the app
Jan 19 21:42:58 <jetole> s73v3r, can you elaborate?
Jan 19 21:42:58 <danijoo> also encrypt your traffic
Jan 19 21:43:00 <pfn> as. can api keys
Jan 19 21:43:10 <danijoo> everything can always be extracted
Jan 19 21:43:18 <jetole> danijoo, Well that would fall under SSL. Right?
Jan 19 21:43:20 <danijoo> theres no security
Jan 19 21:43:21 <jetole> @ encrypt
Jan 19 21:43:46 <jetole> Can you guys elaborate on API keys? What are they and how do they work?
Jan 19 21:43:49 <danijoo> also not communicating in formats like json makes it harder for others
Jan 19 21:43:49 <s73v3r> api keys just make it easier to revoke access should one of them be compromised
Jan 19 21:43:49 <pfn> you can try to make it hard
Jan 19 21:43:53 <danijoo> ie using messagepack
Jan 19 21:43:54 <pfn> that's all you can do
Jan 19 21:44:16 <jetole> yeah I was leaning towards json but I'll take that under advisement
Jan 19 21:44:36 <danijoo> you should ask yourself if its worth it?
Jan 19 21:44:46 <danijoo> why would others want to communicate with your server?
Jan 19 21:45:01 <s73v3r> an API key is just a token that you give the client app, who will send it back with each request in a header. the server will validate the key, and if valid, then do the request
Jan 19 21:45:03 <jetole> To use the data we provide
Jan 19 21:45:08 <s73v3r> if invalid, it sends back an error
Jan 19 21:45:15 <s73v3r> and why would anyone want to use the data you provide?
Jan 19 21:45:19 <jetole> OK @ API key
Jan 19 21:45:27 <danijoo> jetole, why is it a problem if someone does that?
Jan 19 21:45:37 <s73v3r> like I said, they’re really only worth it if you have multiple apps
Jan 19 21:45:38 <danijoo> if someone does it in large scale, you will notice it by traffic
Jan 19 21:45:48 <danijoo> if its in low scale like single users, who care
Jan 19 21:45:51 <danijoo> cares*
Jan 19 21:45:53 <jetole> We pay for servers, resources, etc. The data isn't considered sensitive but we don't want leachers
Jan 19 21:46:12 <jetole> I don't care about single users
Jan 19 21:46:18 <jetole> I don't expect them to care either
Jan 19 21:46:18 <danijoo> if someone leaches large scale, you should notice it serverside
Jan 19 21:46:22 <danijoo> by your traffic
Jan 19 21:46:34 <danijoo> and then you can take actions server side by banning ips and stuff like that
Jan 19 21:46:39 <jetole> It depends. Someone constantly polling would hardly be a spike
Jan 19 21:47:02 <jetole> We currently have a very large user base
Jan 19 21:47:04 <s73v3r> and it would hardly be a drain either
Jan 19 21:47:26 <danijoo> jetole, if someone polls constantly you see that the same ip appears over and over again while other users only check in sporadically
Jan 19 21:47:28 <jetole> hmmm
Jan 19 21:47:31 <jetole> I suppose
Jan 19 21:48:04 <danijoo> I dont see dont do anything, but also dont do too much :)
Jan 19 21:48:15 <danijoo> s/see/say
Jan 19 21:48:23 <jetole> Yeah. I understand
Jan 19 21:48:42 <s73v3r> SSL is pretty basic to do, and will ward off most casual attackers
Jan 19 21:48:53 <danijoo> yep
Jan 19 21:48:56 <jetole> yeah
Jan 19 21:49:25 <pfn> this concern isn't android specific...
Jan 19 21:49:52 <pfn> you would run into this problem securing your service against all types of clients
Jan 19 21:50:35 <jetole> Well android and ios are my only concerns at the moment
Jan 19 21:50:43 <jetole> but I get the point
Jan 19 21:50:58 <pfn> desktop, Web, etc
Jan 19 21:51:14 <jetole> Not really
Jan 19 21:51:31 <jetole> oh you mean the clients I want to prevent access to
Jan 19 21:51:40 <jetole> yes ios and android are the only acceptable clients
Jan 19 21:52:10 <jetole> So I guess user-agent can be evaluated, API keys
Jan 19 21:52:32 <jetole> Any other simple suggestions?
Jan 19 21:52:55 <s73v3r> don’t do user-agent. it’s too easily spoofed
Jan 19 21:53:20 <danijoo> id allow all user-agents but check if some other agents appear from time to time
Jan 19 21:53:32 <danijoo> so you can see if someone tries to use your service
Jan 19 21:53:41 <jetole> I know but when would it be inaccurate from the client or, let me rephrase, what do I have to lose by evaluating the user agent when android and ios are my only expected clients
Jan 19 21:53:46 <s73v3r> you might be better off finding a webdev channel, as this is kind of a web issue.
Jan 19 21:53:51 <danijoo> if you see another useragent polls you, this is a good indicator
Jan 19 21:54:10 <jetole> Well I just don't know what my options are related to Android and iOS
Jan 19 21:54:21 <s73v3r> exactly the same
Jan 19 21:54:26 <s73v3r> there isn’t a difference
Jan 19 21:54:29 <jetole> Yeah?
Jan 19 21:54:40 <jetole> No unique client identifer tokens or anything like that?
Jan 19 21:54:48 <s73v3r> pretty much. Implementation might be slightly different, but the concepts are exactly the same
Jan 19 21:54:54 <jetole> device ID or nothing like that?
Jan 19 21:55:04 <s73v3r> none that you can reliably get
Jan 19 21:55:11 <s73v3r> or should be trying to get
Jan 19 21:55:15 <jetole> Right
Jan 19 21:55:17 <jetole> OK
Jan 19 21:55:28 <danijoo> everything you can get can be spoofed
Jan 19 21:55:41 <jetole> Does Google offer a "secure" means of sending data to android clients?
Jan 19 21:55:47 <danijoo> if i know some device id works, i can always spoof that
Jan 19 21:55:48 <jetole> through any their services I mean
Jan 19 21:55:53 <Mavrik> No.
Jan 19 21:55:54 <pfn> gcm
Jan 19 21:55:56 <s73v3r> regarding user-agent, there are several plugins for both Chrome and Firefox that allow me to set the user-agent to whatever I wish
Jan 19 21:56:00 <pfn> is relatively secure
Jan 19 21:56:22 <jetole> s73v3r, I know @ user-agent being spoofed. I don't need a plugin with wget or curl
Jan 19 21:56:45 <jetole> pfn, so I could push a api key via gcm if I wanted to?
Jan 19 21:56:50 <s73v3r> no, I’m saying I can spoof my user-agent to be whatever it is you’re looking for
Jan 19 21:57:08 <pfn> jetole, possibly
Jan 19 21:57:09 <jetole> s73v3r, and I am saying I can do that in curl or wget without needing a plugin for either
Jan 19 21:57:23 <s73v3r> exactly, so ignore user-agent
Jan 19 21:57:41 <jetole> s73v3r, curl and wget are included in pretty much any Linux or BSD and probably on OSX too
Jan 19 21:57:56 <s73v3r> i know. so don’t bother checking the user-agent
Jan 19 21:58:05 <missingno> do ssl client auth for added pain
Jan 19 21:58:08 <jim87> Uhm... when I launch the service from an app, logcat says "Unable to start service Intent { cmp=com.ags_it.posthelloupdater/.MainService } U=0: not found"... but if I do the am startservice it says "Starting service: Intent { act=android.intent.action.MAIN cat=[android.intent.category.LAUNCHER] cmp=com.ags_it.posthellocityupdater/.MainService }"... am I missing anything? I tried uninstalling and installing the caller apk again...
Jan 19 21:58:24 <missingno> I mean  they can yank your cert from your apk but they will have as hard of time using it as you will
Jan 19 21:58:25 <jetole> s73v3r, yeah but I am thinking it can be a simple blockade. Some people can easily subvert it but some people won't
Jan 19 21:58:37 <s73v3r> it’s not worth it
Jan 19 21:58:39 <Mavrik> jim87, set the package properly.
Jan 19 21:58:40 <Mavrik> :P
Jan 19 21:58:42 <jetole> OK
Jan 19 21:58:59 <Mavrik> jim87, your two calls have different package names ;)
Jan 19 21:59:03 <jetole> missingno, got it
Jan 19 21:59:07 <pfn> missingno, that is untrue
Jan 19 21:59:08 <jim87> AH DAMN!
Jan 19 21:59:10 <danijoo> yup client side certs will drive a lot of people off i guess
Jan 19 21:59:12 <jim87> thanks Mavrik
Jan 19 21:59:14 <pfn> client cert is easy to use
Jan 19 21:59:17 <jim87> loosing myself in a glass of water
Jan 19 21:59:23 <jetole> and I am familiar with client certs in the normal web app dev so I understand
Jan 19 22:00:39 <jetole> client cert can be self signed with a local CA. Right? I don't need to purchase trusted CA auth'd cert for that. Do I?
Jan 19 22:01:08 <jetole> I know I used easy-rsa and client certs for openvpn
Jan 19 22:01:24 <jetole> and I think I used a self signed one on a intranet app I wrote once
Jan 19 22:01:36 <danijoo> yeah. theres no point in a CA there
Jan 19 22:01:44 <danijoo> you just tell the server to only accept this cert
Jan 19 22:01:53 <jetole> OK
Jan 19 22:02:05 <jetole> Something to consider at client cert and I like that
Jan 19 22:02:50 <jareddlc> hey guys, im changing my project from eclipse to studio and encountered an error and needed some help
Jan 19 22:03:04 <jareddlc> Library reference ../google-play-services_lib could not be found
Jan 19 22:03:10 <s73v3r> start drinking heavliy. that’s my advice
Jan 19 22:03:11 <jetole> so with GCM, it's pretty unlikely that someone would be pulling messages from their desktop through some hack'd client or anything. Right?
Jan 19 22:03:26 <s73v3r> depends on how paranoid you want to be
Jan 19 22:03:39 <danijoo> its always possible
Jan 19 22:03:42 <s73v3r> part of GCM is that the device has to send a message to the server with the GCM key
Jan 19 22:03:44 <danijoo> but gcm is super hard, yeah
Jan 19 22:03:51 <jetole> OK
Jan 19 22:03:52 <s73v3r> and how do you know that it came from the device running your app?
Jan 19 22:03:58 <danijoo> since the id could change
Jan 19 22:04:16 <pfn> GCM is a reasonable effort for key exchange
Jan 19 22:04:18 <jetole> I know nothing is secure and nothing ever will be completely secure so I am not grasping at straws or anything here. Just evaluating and weighing my options
Jan 19 22:04:42 <jetole> s73v3r, I don't know anything about gcm
Jan 19 22:04:45 <s73v3r> has anyone explored using GCM for key exchange?
Jan 19 22:05:18 <pfn> for this situation it's a pretty good fit
Jan 19 22:05:40 <jetole> pfn, do you know the approx cost?
Jan 19 22:05:43 <jetole> of gcm?
Jan 19 22:05:43 <s73v3r> jetole: when the app starts up, it’s going to ask Google for it’s GCM token. This may or may not be the same as the last time the app was run. It will get it, and pass it to the server, which will use that token to send to Google when it wants to send a message
Jan 19 22:05:49 <s73v3r> free.99
Jan 19 22:05:54 <pfn> jetole, it's free
Jan 19 22:06:04 <jetole> reliable?
Jan 19 22:06:20 <s73v3r> fairly reliable, however there is no guarantee of delivery
Jan 19 22:07:10 <danijoo> in theory someone could still build a fake desktop client but it will randomly fail
Jan 19 22:07:16 <jetole> The client, running our app could understand that it has not received they key it requires and re-poll or something like that if it hasn't received the event???
Jan 19 22:07:19 <danijoo> and the attacker will have to get a new token somehow
Jan 19 22:07:32 <danijoo> which causes lots of attacker-heartache :)
Jan 19 22:07:53 <jetole> I like how on #slack I can edit what I just said. I always type something than see a typo or a missing punct
Jan 19 22:07:55 <s73v3r> danijoo: Wouldn’t the fake desktop client be asking for a token and passing that to the server?
Jan 19 22:08:14 <danijoo> s73v3r, no idea if this is possible
Jan 19 22:08:17 <danijoo> or hoiw
Jan 19 22:08:34 <danijoo> because they methods are part of google play services and I have no idea what magic they use
Jan 19 22:08:36 <pfn> this method is not foolproof
Jan 19 22:08:37 <s73v3r> well, assuming the client apk is compromised, they should be able to get the GCM keys
Jan 19 22:08:48 <s73v3r> just call GCM methods to ask for a new token
Jan 19 22:08:57 <jetole> So you said there is no guarantee it would be delivered with GCM so if my app requires a key which it would poll from gcm and it hasn't received it than my app can re-poll or re-query gcm or something like that and get the key. Right?
Jan 19 22:09:14 <pfn> but it's easy to use an emulator to retrieve keys
Jan 19 22:09:23 <s73v3r> you’d have to re-request the server to send it
Jan 19 22:09:32 <pfn> don't need a desktop client
Jan 19 22:09:46 <pfn> jetole, yes
Jan 19 22:09:51 <jetole> OK
Jan 19 22:09:52 <s73v3r> but if GCM were down, then you’d not be able to get the key. although I don’t believe that’s ever happened
Jan 19 22:10:11 <danijoo> if gcm is down, a lot of big companies will  have a huge proble
Jan 19 22:10:17 <danijoo> including whatsapp
Jan 19 22:10:18 <Leeds> frankly, there are probably... yeah
Jan 19 22:10:20 <jetole> I see
Jan 19 22:10:55 <jetole> so gcm sounds like a good idea for secure key exchange
Jan 19 22:10:56 <s73v3r> if you guys do end up going down this road, maybe your company should write something up detailing what you did. I don’t think I’ve heard much about people exchanging keys over GCM/Apple Push
Jan 19 22:11:44 <jetole> oh and yeah I have studied cryptography a lot in the past, read a few books on it. I know this all boils down to the age old issue of how can you trust an unknown client
Jan 19 22:12:56 <jetole> Google is communicating with someone else's devices. I am communicating with someone else's devices. There's no way for anyone to have 100% assurance that the device they are communicating with is the device they expect to be communicating with or that it's operating in the manner that it's expected to be operating in since they exist outside of a controlled environment
Jan 19 22:13:01 <jetole> but this is all good food for thought
Jan 19 22:14:45 <jetole> outside of api keys, gcm exchange and client ssl certs, are there any other ideas?
Jan 19 22:15:57 <pfn> I wouldn't call it secure key exchange, but it's relatively safe
Jan 19 22:18:24 <jetole> pfn: Yeah I get it. Like I said we're dealing with uncontrolled devices outside of controlled environments so no matter what lengths I go to I will never be able to guarantee that the devices and apps in question are the ones I want hence why I am looking for relatively simply methods to evade the 99th percentile
Jan 19 22:18:36 <pfn> jetole, you know, I hope you're paying out a part of your salary for the last couple hours to the people here  :P
Jan 19 22:19:05 <jetole> I'm off the clock
Jan 19 22:19:08 <jetole> ;-)
Jan 19 22:19:19 <jetole> and I haven't been here an hour
Jan 19 22:19:19 <s73v3r> then what the hell are you doing here?
Jan 19 22:19:38 <s73v3r> don’t do work for your employer off the clock. it demeans us all
Jan 19 22:19:48 <pfn> pretty much
Jan 19 22:19:53 <pfn> since you value working for free
Jan 19 22:19:54 <jetole> I have vested interest in the project and am brainstorming ideas to tighten security
Jan 19 22:19:54 <pfn> we do not
Jan 19 22:20:15 <jetole> So everyone here is at the office now except me?
Jan 19 22:20:17 <Leeds> s73v3r: it's okay, I balance it out - barely done any work for months, been paid full-time to not do it
Jan 19 22:20:23 <pfn> so, I hope you plan on sharing some equity with those here
Jan 19 22:20:36 <jetole> I remember when I was younger and tech was considered more fun instead of just an action item
Jan 19 22:20:45 <pfn> I do tons of shit for fun
Jan 19 22:20:52 <pfn> I have a few dozen OSS repos I regularly contribute to
Jan 19 22:20:54 <jetole> pfn, I'll buy you a beer
Jan 19 22:20:55 <pfn> but I don't work for free
Jan 19 22:21:03 <s73v3r> I’m not saying don’t do tech stuff off the clock
Jan 19 22:21:09 <jetole> lol
Jan 19 22:21:15 <s73v3r> I’m saying don’t do tech stuff for your employer off the clock
Jan 19 22:21:57 <g00s> they'll just get some H1-Bs that will
Jan 19 22:22:10 <g00s> this is what happens when programmers don't form unions ;)
Jan 19 22:22:29 <jetole> I'm just brainstorming. I didn't think I was inconveniencing anyone but with the amount of hours I've put into helping people on IRC over the past 10+ years I figured that entitles me to like... carry the one, subtract the differential, like almost an hour of expecting people to do the same for me X)
Jan 19 22:22:38 <Leeds> hmm, H1-B vs. Hi-C
Jan 19 22:22:56 <jetole> Unions are terrible in any industry and so are H1-B's
Jan 19 22:23:02 <s73v3r> no they’re not
Jan 19 22:23:24 <s73v3r> compared to the damage done by big business, unions are benign
Jan 19 22:23:30 <danijoo> play store screenshots with or without a device frame? seems like the trend goes to embed them in frames + background..
Jan 19 22:24:05 <jetole> I'm in ontario and heard in the news recently about a jail guards union wanting to strike at a prison and then I heard about all other staff who are part of different unions being required to report to work at the jail that weekend even if the guards are striking
Jan 19 22:24:10 <pfn> with a device frame is such a terrible iOS thing
Jan 19 22:24:36 <jetole> I think of lazy employees when I think of unions but I have never worked for any union or company that used unions
Jan 19 22:25:03 <pfn> unions cover blue collar labor
Jan 19 22:25:23 <jetole> Maybe. I was thinking white collar
Jan 19 22:25:31 <danijoo> it would be nice to be able to upload a version with frame for when the store entry is shown on desktop browsers
Jan 19 22:25:34 <pfn> there are no white collar unions
Jan 19 22:25:39 <danijoo> or if play store would add frames there automatically
Jan 19 22:25:49 <jetole> I've known some people in white collar jobs in unions and just the discussions I've heard about it has always bothered me
Jan 19 22:25:52 <Leeds> pfn: sure there are - what do you think the law society, BMA, etc. are?
Jan 19 22:25:53 <s73v3r> find me anything that a union has done that is anywhere near as bad as the motgage crisis. then you can talk
Jan 19 22:25:56 <g00s> but still, the AMA isn't a union precisely, but limits the supply of doctors and sets their rates - so its kinda of collective margainaing
Jan 19 22:26:07 <g00s> lol, bargaining
Jan 19 22:26:37 <s73v3r> one could say that the Director’s Guild, Writer’s Guild, and Screen Actor’s Guild are white-collar unions
Jan 19 22:27:10 <pfn> quite possibly
Jan 19 22:27:38 <s73v3r> and if there were an engineer’s union, i’d see them as the model of what to do, rather than say the UAW
Jan 19 22:27:52 <jetole> Like teachers unions. Sure I loved having the days off school when they striked when I was a kid but, especially in the states (I'm a dual citizen and have lived equal amount in Canada and the US), I mean if a teacher doesn't like their job then they should f*** off and quit and if they are slacking around school board can't fire them because of their union and they all get to collaborate on taking days off to strike where they get partial pay an
Jan 19 22:27:52 <jetole> d I mean it just seems to complicate the whole idea of hiring the best person to do a good job and paying them a salary of what they're worth
Jan 19 22:28:20 <s73v3r> no. saying that someone should quit if they’re being mistreated is a non-answer
Jan 19 22:28:36 <jetole> Don't forget the Film Actors Guild
Jan 19 22:28:45 <jetole> X)
Jan 19 22:28:50 <pfn> the problem with unions is that they tend to protect the lowest common denominator
Jan 19 22:29:01 * jetole nods in agreement 
Jan 19 22:29:23 * pfn says this having immediate family who work in union jobs
Jan 19 22:29:40 <s73v3r> they’re usually the ones who need protection the most, though.
Jan 19 22:29:45 <pfn> but, might as well take advantage of it while you can
Jan 19 22:29:50 * pfn looks forward to having a pension
Jan 19 22:29:57 <s73v3r> someone who has no bargaining power, that would be run roughshod over by the business
Jan 19 22:30:10 <jetole> speaking of the screen actors guild, I read a couple weeks ago that in order to apply you need to have had a feature role in a screen actors guild movie but those movies typically only hire SAG members so it's like pretty hard to get in
Jan 19 22:30:35 <pfn> jetole, unions tend to be the same way in general
Jan 19 22:30:45 <jetole> I don't like unions
Jan 19 22:30:50 <pfn> it's a pain in the ass getting a job at a union shop
Jan 19 22:30:51 <jetole> I don't like white collar unions
Jan 19 22:31:24 <jetole> If I run a company that I want to hire the person with the best qualifications and fire the people who jerking me around
Jan 19 22:31:47 <jetole> I want them to want to work for me because I offer great pay and benefits and all that
Jan 19 22:32:05 <jetole> and that's how it is now for where I work  and with every job I have ever had
Jan 19 22:32:20 <Leeds> jetole: you just went out of business, because your competitor is hiring undocumented migrants for half your rate
Jan 19 22:32:36 <s73v3r> jetole: nothing about that has anything to do with unions
Jan 19 22:32:39 <s73v3r> absolutely none
Jan 19 22:32:51 <jetole> If someone tells me they want to strike than I would fire them and that's exactly what I would expect every employer I have or have had to do if I strike
Jan 19 22:33:05 <s73v3r> so you believe that your workers are serfs who are owned by you
Jan 19 22:33:16 <s73v3r> you believe that they should have no ability to protest mistreatment on the job
Jan 19 22:33:51 <erisco> the View of Fragment A contains Fragment B. How can I get a reference to Fragment B in a method of Fragment A? I am trying A.Fragment.Manager.FindFragmentById during OnCreateView, but this returns null
Jan 19 22:34:04 <jetole> s73v3r, First off, it was hypothetical. I don't own a company. Secondly I choose to work where I feel I am appreciated and I feel that I enjoy doing what I am hired to do
Jan 19 22:34:08 <pfn> there is legislation that protects against mistreatment
Jan 19 22:34:10 <s73v3r> erisco: you’re talking about child fragments
Jan 19 22:34:11 <pfn> you don't need unions for that
Jan 19 22:34:27 <s73v3r> jetole: good for you. not everyone has that choice
Jan 19 22:34:37 <g00s> erisco don't forget, child fragments must be added /dynamically/
Jan 19 22:34:38 <pfn> for a while, I wanted to find a longshoreman job... fuckers get paid more than engineers for menial labor
Jan 19 22:34:45 <jetole> s73v3r, No I don't think they should have the right to do that. I think they should quit and if I run a company that everyone wants to quit from than what do you think will happen to my company?
Jan 19 22:34:47 <s73v3r> pfn: There’s legislation for minimum wage, too, yet many places are getting around that
Jan 19 22:35:09 <s73v3r> jetole: you’ll bitch and moan that you can’t find engineers and hire H1-B’s
Jan 19 22:35:15 <pfn> the only way to get around that is to pay cash or hire undocumented workers
Jan 19 22:35:27 <pfn> both of which open you up to business ending consequences
Jan 19 22:35:29 <s73v3r> yeah, not so much
Jan 19 22:35:54 <jetole> I'm not talking about burger king or construction workers but what about police? They are a union. Does that mean they can strike. Like I said I know of a prison where the guards either did or were going to strike. WTF is that?
Jan 19 22:36:00 <s73v3r> look into the restaurant industry. there are lots of cases of wage theft by employers, where the employees have very little recourse if they wish to continue working
Jan 19 22:36:13 <s73v3r> in the us, police are not allowed to strike
Jan 19 22:36:24 <pfn> all those cases I've ever seen always end up in the restaurant being opened up to huge liability
Jan 19 22:36:28 <jetole> Good. I don't know if they can in Canada or not
Jan 19 22:36:30 <s73v3r> and if the prison guards want to strike, there’s probably a reason
Jan 19 22:36:39 <pfn> police also have 20 year careers with massive benefits
Jan 19 22:36:51 <s73v3r> pfn: they are open to it, but the risk is minimal, because the workers rarely can afford lawyers
Jan 19 22:37:10 <jetole> s73v3r, no. It's a crutch. They should quit if their employer is causing that kind of a problem
Jan 19 22:37:18 <jetole> and!
Jan 19 22:37:27 <jetole> It's a prison. Like police they should not be allowed
Jan 19 22:37:28 <s73v3r> jetole: again, not everyone has that luxury
Jan 19 22:37:49 <pfn> unions don't improve the poverty line
Jan 19 22:37:53 <s73v3r> i’m sorry, but this “survival of the fittest” argument with regards to employment has no place in modern society
Jan 19 22:38:12 <Leeds> erisco: this was probably a bad time to ask
Jan 19 22:38:14 <jetole> I read that workers, non guard workers would have been required to work in that prison during the guard strike. The guard union created a dangerous environment for it's coworkers and even the prisoners. Potentially the surrounding neighborhoods as well
Jan 19 22:38:17 <pfn> people who have these problems don't work in union jobs, and the places that have these jobs will never be unionized
Jan 19 22:38:42 <jetole> Leeds, we're off topic so if it's technical than it's a great time to ask
Jan 19 22:38:58 <s73v3r> Leeds: i thought we answered erisco’s question: They’re doing child fragments
Jan 19 22:39:00 <Leeds> jetole: except everyone is ignoring the technical question
Jan 19 22:39:13 * jetole scrolls up
Jan 19 22:39:14 <Leeds> meh
Jan 19 22:39:22 <s73v3r> g00s and I both answered
Jan 19 22:39:40 <jetole> Anyways. I'm going to head out
Jan 19 22:39:57 <jetole> s73v3r, pfn and anyone else who helped, thank you for your assistance
Jan 19 22:40:11 <s73v3r> stop doing employer work on your own time
Jan 19 22:40:18 <erisco> yup, seems I need to use ChildFragmentManager instead of FragmentManager
Jan 19 22:40:26 <danijoo> erisco, yes
Jan 19 22:40:39 <s73v3r> keep in mind there are lots of crappy bugs related to child fragments
Jan 19 22:40:46 <danijoo> every fragment has its own childfragmentmanager which manages the fragments in the fragment
Jan 19 22:40:49 <jetole> s73v3r, I am interested in the concepts and being involved in your work increases your value as a employee so pfffffftt!
Jan 19 22:41:09 * pfn waits for someone to acquire his OSS projects
Jan 19 22:41:11 <s73v3r> you can be just as involved during the work hours
Jan 19 22:41:21 <g00s> s73v3r i'd like to find a tally of the current bad ones, beside onActivityResult etc
Jan 19 22:41:24 <pfn> I got an offer for my keepass stuff once, which I ignored  :-/
Jan 19 22:41:31 <jetole> s73v3r, yeah I need a hobby and on that note I am going to the bar
Jan 19 22:41:33 <jetole> Good night
Jan 19 22:41:46 <JosefFilzmaier> Hello There! In a custom ViewGroup, within onMeasure: if the sizes of the children do *not* change, onLayout is not called. Is there a way to enforce this? (requestLayout, invalidate both seem to not work)
Jan 19 22:41:47 <s73v3r> erisco: child fragments don’t receive onActivityResult, and whatever the callback is for asking for permissions on M
Jan 19 22:42:14 <JosefFilzmaier> After adding a view i should add.
Jan 19 22:42:23 <danijoo> s73v3r, non-child fragments dont receive them too, do they?
Jan 19 22:42:37 <s73v3r> non-child fragments do receive them, I believe
Jan 19 22:43:05 <s73v3r> it’s just some idiotic bug/design decision that’s related to the hack Google did for child fragments
Jan 19 22:43:44 <g00s> s73v3r i thought even regular fragments get the wrong request code
Jan 19 22:44:15 <s73v3r> for permissions or for activity result?
Jan 19 22:44:21 <g00s> both. been a few weeks since i looked though
Jan 19 22:44:30 <g00s> i think its actually the same bug
Jan 19 22:44:46 <s73v3r> wow, that’s even worse than I thought
Jan 19 22:45:46 <g00s> i noticed it was assigned in b.android.com the other day though, so lets hope ...
Jan 19 22:45:49 <danijoo> seems like theres a new big android vulnerability..
Jan 19 22:46:15 <s73v3r> ?
Jan 19 22:46:29 <danijoo> let me see if i can find an english reference
Jan 19 22:46:40 <danijoo> http://www.csoonline.com/article/3023019/security/linux-zero-day-affects-most-androids-millions-of-linux-pcs.html
Jan 19 22:47:02 <s73v3r> did someone else post this today?
Jan 19 22:47:10 <danijoo> only priv escalation though
Jan 19 22:47:17 <danijoo> no idea. I just saw it now
Jan 19 22:47:44 <s73v3r> oh, no, i saw something on Ars Technica about it.
Jan 19 22:47:54 <s73v3r> i hadn’t read it, though
Jan 19 22:48:37 <g00s> wow, since 2012
Jan 19 22:48:48 <jareddlc> sup g00s
Jan 19 22:48:49 <g00s> bet the NSA used it meanwhile ;)
Jan 19 22:48:55 <g00s> hi jareddlc
Jan 19 22:49:34 <jareddlc> i wanted to ask you, have you experienced random bt disconnects?
Jan 19 22:49:35 <danijoo> g00s, yeah. the german article I found says everything > 4.4 + a lot older devices due to backports
Jan 19 22:49:43 <g00s> jareddlc of course haha
Jan 19 22:49:48 <jareddlc> i get complaints about it
Jan 19 22:49:58 <jareddlc> my only guess, its android that is terminating the service
Jan 19 22:50:11 <jareddlc> becuase on my phones it doesnt happen
Jan 19 22:50:20 <g00s> i dont know. i have have 3 - 4 devices purring just fine, and then bam! they all disconnect
Jan 19 22:50:31 <jareddlc> :)
Jan 19 22:50:39 <jareddlc> k thanks
Jan 19 22:50:42 <jareddlc> just thought id ask
Jan 19 22:50:46 <g00s> jareddlc there is a library that tries to smooth these things out, but i am skeptical
Jan 19 22:50:53 <g00s> costs lots of $$$
Jan 19 22:51:06 <jareddlc> no thx :)
Jan 19 22:51:11 <g00s> http://idevicesinc.com/sweetblue/
Jan 19 22:51:11 <jareddlc> to be honest
Jan 19 22:51:15 <jareddlc> my app is free
Jan 19 22:51:20 <jareddlc> and I struggle to try to charge
Jan 19 22:51:48 <g00s> sure
Jan 19 22:51:54 <jareddlc> wow 1k a year for basic
Jan 19 22:51:55 <danijoo> 1000 $ per year.
Jan 19 22:51:57 <danijoo> holy...
Jan 19 22:52:20 <g00s> danijoo i think its worth it - if you are a company going for lots of installs
Jan 19 22:52:38 <g00s> you'll easily spend more than $1K per year debugging BT shit on android
Jan 19 22:52:44 <jareddlc> if you have the $ then i dont see why not
Jan 19 22:52:49 <jareddlc> easily
Jan 19 22:52:51 <jareddlc> at my rate
Jan 19 22:53:09 <jareddlc> thats like 20hrs of work
Jan 19 22:53:17 <g00s> the problem I'm having now is that wifi drops when I have BT connections, and so my IFTTT integration won't work
Jan 19 22:53:20 <jareddlc> which is easyily spent on one nasty bug
Jan 19 22:53:21 <s73v3r> shit, we’ve just got done with a big bluetooth project, and it was a pain
Jan 19 22:53:32 <danijoo> yeah I was talking from the one-man-army-pov ;)
Jan 19 22:53:37 <s73v3r> if something like that worked for us, it would have been a no brainer
Jan 19 22:53:47 <jareddlc> btw g00s im excited my app is almost hitting 100k downloads
Jan 19 22:53:53 <jareddlc> never thought id reach 10k :)
Jan 19 22:53:58 <jessie> Congrats, that's pretty good
Jan 19 22:54:04 <g00s> s73v3r i'm using a product which employs sweetblue - AND ITS STILL FUCKED UP
Jan 19 22:54:07 <danijoo> link jareddlc ?
Jan 19 22:54:24 <g00s> that great jareddlc ;)
Jan 19 22:54:25 <jareddlc> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.solderbyte.openfit&hl=en
Jan 19 22:54:43 <danijoo> ah smartband stuff
Jan 19 22:54:52 <jessie> ^
Jan 19 22:55:03 <jareddlc> yup, samsung dropped support for the watch before 1 year of it launch
Jan 19 22:55:28 <jareddlc> so i made the app formyself and thought id release for free
Jan 19 22:55:36 <danijoo> your dialog misses a theme in the screenshot  :p
Jan 19 22:55:43 <danijoo> but looks pretty complete. nice work
Jan 19 22:55:51 <jareddlc> thanks
Jan 19 22:56:19 <jareddlc> danijoo: oh really?
Jan 19 22:56:26 <jareddlc> i just thought it looked that way LOL
Jan 19 22:57:19 <danijoo> 4th screen is the default gray dialog. and from the the color of the close/sync button you can see its not using the apps main style
Jan 19 22:57:37 <danijoo> colorPrimary and stuff like that is not set for the dialog
Jan 19 22:57:50 <danijoo> but im cherry picking ;) the app really looks good
Jan 19 22:58:20 <jareddlc> for style i set use device default
Jan 19 22:58:26 <jareddlc> and didnt do any theming at all
Jan 19 22:58:39 <jareddlc> but i can look into it
Jan 19 22:59:53 <jareddlc> i did have a question regarding gradle, i recently switched from eclipse
Jan 19 23:00:07 <jareddlc> and im getting a build error, i need to include play services
Jan 19 23:00:27 <jareddlc> but based on the docs on androids website: https://developers.google.com/android/guides/setup
Jan 19 23:00:48 <jareddlc> i do not have the line:pply plugin: 'com.android.application'
Jan 19 23:00:51 <jareddlc> in my gradle file
Jan 19 23:01:25 <danijoo> show your gradle file.
Jan 19 23:01:55 <jareddlc> https://gist.github.com/jareddlc/2de7a0468517971a28e3
Jan 19 23:02:12 <danijoo> the line is in the other one :)
Jan 19 23:02:22 <danijoo> ./app/build.gradle
Jan 19 23:02:41 <jareddlc> lol thanks
Jan 19 23:02:46 <danijoo> np
Jan 19 23:02:56 <danijoo> you rarely need to edit the one you just posted
Jan 19 23:03:11 <danijoo> most stuff goes in ./app/build.gradle
Jan 19 23:04:00 <jareddlc> cool
Jan 19 23:04:11 <jareddlc> is there a editor for gradle or package manager?
Jan 19 23:04:35 <danijoo> android studio has something build in like a package manager
Jan 19 23:05:07 <danijoo> right click module -> module settings -> select the app -> Dependencies tab
Jan 19 23:05:31 <danijoo> or somewhere arround there at least ^^
Jan 19 23:06:02 <jareddlc> thanks i'll look for it
Jan 19 23:21:02 <s73v3r> I think the next talk I develop is going to be on separating out things like Parse, Firebase, etc, from your app
Jan 19 23:21:11 <s73v3r> trying to decouple the app from those things
Jan 19 23:21:39 <danijoo> i'd listen
Jan 19 23:22:32 <microt> I'm trying to use RecyclerView.Adapter.notifyItemChanged(int) to update an item, depending on the result from a fragment
Jan 19 23:23:23 <microt> I'm calling it in onResume() in my fragment...but the item only updates after I scroll it off and back on the screen
Jan 19 23:24:17 <microt> notifyDataSetChanged() works as intened--ie the item is updated immediately when resuming the fragment
Jan 19 23:25:27 <pfn> huh, california paid me $307 in interest? wtf
Jan 19 23:26:20 <TacticalJoke> microt:  I'd run the debugger and check whether the index is correct.
Jan 19 23:35:30 <microt> TacticalJoke: now that you mention it, I was getting odd values when I debugged it earlier. I'm using RecyclerView.ViewHolder.getAdapterPosition()
Jan 19 23:36:19 <microt> the correct item is updating...it just requires a scroll off/on the screen
Jan 19 23:37:26 <TacticalJoke> That means the item is *not* updating (until `onBindView`).
Jan 19 23:38:19 <TacticalJoke> By "the item" I mean the on-screen View.
Jan 19 23:38:29 <microt> ah, ok. I guess I need to reconsider how I get the item position in the RecyclerView.
Jan 19 23:39:25 <microt> I'm brand new to this. Feeling pretty overwhelmed with wrapping my head around the lifecycles, adapters, viewholders, etc
Jan 19 23:44:29 <TacticalJoke> It's pretty complicated.
Jan 19 23:45:48 <s73v3r> danijoo: It mainly comes down to immediately turning your PFObjects into plain Java/Swift objects as soon as you receive them, and not using things that extend from PFObject
Jan 19 23:46:35 <s73v3r> however, my current idea in Swift, using protocol extentions, doesn’t translate well into Java
Jan 19 23:51:04 <b4b> sup with the droid nerds?
Jan 19 23:51:59 <b4b> droid is cool but the aztecs invented it first
Jan 19 23:52:17 <b4b> they called it rock os and used it on their tree phones
Jan 19 23:53:59 <pfn> how are you so annoying?
Jan 19 23:54:47 <grekkos> is there a reason that .getClass().getName() would return "java.lang.Class" ?
Jan 19 23:55:02 <b4b> pfn: shut ya nerdy face
Jan 19 23:55:04 <pfn> because you did it on a class object
Jan 19 23:55:09 <grekkos> oh
Jan 19 23:55:09 <grekkos> zing
Jan 19 23:55:11 <grekkos> there it is
Jan 19 23:55:11 <grekkos> haha
Jan 19 23:55:35 <g00s> "Facebook Is Adding Tor Support To The Android App" huhh
Jan 19 23:55:36 <grekkos> I saw it at the same time you said that
Jan 19 23:55:48 <pfn>  org.jetbrains.kotlin.android:androidRes=
Jan 19 23:55:53 <grekkos> I was calling .getClass() on the Class... woop
Jan 19 23:55:55 <pfn> huh, kotlin-android-extensions changed? so annoying
Jan 19 23:59:58 <pfn> http://pastie.org/10694755
Jan 20 00:00:00 <pfn> yep, annoying
Jan 20 00:04:46 <microt> TacticalJoke: yeah, my logic for getting the index was wrong. Fixed it! My solution is probably way more complicated than it needs to be...
Jan 20 00:06:42 <TacticalJoke> What is the problem and what is the solution?
Jan 20 00:08:35 <microt> I didn't call RV.Viewholder.getAdapterPosition() in the correct place. I moved the call to the Viewholder's onClick
Jan 20 00:10:35 <microt> This was part of a challenge from the Big Nerd Ranch book, chapter 10
Jan 20 00:17:52 <s73v3r> version 1 or 2?
Jan 20 00:17:54 <PhoenixFyre> Hi all.  I am moving to using android studio and I had a question.  i pulled my project via the import from control version via github to android studio.  I have a problem though.  In my project explorer or what ever it is clalled, I don't see the resource folder, 'res, there.  All I see is a folder called main, under that is java, and underthat is all of my code.
Jan 20 00:19:04 <PhoenixFyre> What did i do wrong in the import.  I thought I followed the screens correctly, but no go.
Jan 20 00:19:40 <surf2b1> I am trying to find where WebView sets the EdgeEffect (for scrolling). I can't seem to find it. Any help. (trying to change the glow color dynamically)
Jan 20 00:23:15 <microt> PhoenixFyre: did you try switching your project view with the dropdown menu at the top?
Jan 20 00:23:51 <microt> that is, the top of the project "explorer" sidebar
Jan 20 00:26:42 <PhoenixFyre> oh, I didn't know that was there.  I am blind, and just now learning android studio.  is there a keyboard command to activate that menu?
Jan 20 00:28:47 <Napalm> surf2b1: what version of android?
Jan 20 00:28:55 <surf2b1> Napalm, m
Jan 20 00:29:04 <Napalm> its in your theme
Jan 20 00:29:36 <surf2b1> Napalm, are you saying my primary color? Because I want to change it from my primary color
Jan 20 00:31:49 <Napalm> surf2b1: no
Jan 20 00:32:20 <PhoenixFyre> thanks guys I am figuring it out now :)
Jan 20 00:32:46 <microt> PhoenixFyre: did that fix it? I'm learning as well. I don't know of a shortcut, but you might be able to define one yourself
Jan 20 00:33:01 <Napalm> surf2b1: https://developer.android.com/reference/android/R.attr.html#colorEdgeEffect
Jan 20 00:34:09 <surf2b1> Napalm, I want to change it programmatically. For example, using this class to change glow color for common widgets: https://gist.github.com/jaredrummler/80a0e50724ddec3c664f
Jan 20 00:41:42 <microt> oh alt+f1, then using arrows/numbers might be what you're looking for PhoenixFyre
Jan 20 00:43:48 <microt> or alt+1 to focus the project view, then alt+left/right arrows to switch views (alt+ bottom arrow shows dropdown)
Jan 20 00:52:27 <b4b> all microt ever got is mean mugs n cold starez
Jan 20 01:01:55 <pfn> is there any way to debug kotlin-android-extensions
Jan 20 01:02:38 <danijoo> they are basically just extension variables
Jan 20 01:02:42 <danijoo> that are generated
Jan 20 01:04:13 <pfn> yes, and they're not getting generatged
Jan 20 01:04:17 <pfn> thus the need to debug
Jan 20 01:04:19 <danijoo> theres not really anything you can do beside looking at the generated files
Jan 20 01:04:25 <danijoo> hm..
Jan 20 01:04:30 <shadynastys> !! I keep getting proguard notes like this   #Note: com.google.gson.internal.UnsafeAllocator accesses a declared field 'theUnsafe' dynamically
Jan 20 01:04:43 <pfn> does it actually generate files?
Jan 20 01:04:48 <shadynastys> I add a line like this to keep it  -keep class com.google.gson.internal.UnsafeAllocator { java.lang.reflect.Field theUnsafe; }
Jan 20 01:04:53 <danijoo> let me check..
Jan 20 01:05:05 <shadynastys> then I get a Note like this Note: the configuration refers to the unknown field 'java.lang.reflect.Field theUnsafe' in class 'com.google.gson.internal.UnsafeAllocator'
Jan 20 01:05:21 <shadynastys> WTF proguard
Jan 20 01:06:39 <pfn> your proguard config is wrong
Jan 20 01:06:41 <pfn> what's so wtf about that
Jan 20 01:07:28 <danijoo> it actually seems like it doesnt
Jan 20 01:07:35 <shadynastys> hmm how is it wrong. It tells me the file and field that I need to keep. I add the line to keep it and then it tells me that the field is unknown
Jan 20 01:07:38 <danijoo> thought thats how it works but i cant find files
Jan 20 01:07:44 <danijoo> so theres some other black magic..
Jan 20 01:08:28 <pfn> it generates compile-time only magic
Jan 20 01:08:36 <danijoo> yah seems like.
Jan 20 01:08:55 <danijoo> are you trying to include it in sbt or are u working with gradle?
Jan 20 01:09:42 <shadynastys> The original Note is gone but a new one is listed as unknown field.
Jan 20 01:09:48 <b4b> everything you know and build now will be obsolete in a few years
Jan 20 01:10:25 <pfn> include it in sbt for next version of kotlin-plugin
Jan 20 01:10:33 <pfn> I don't think anyone's using it for android, but I like to not release broken stuff
Jan 20 01:18:47 <shadynastys> pfn: any other hints about my bad proguard configuration? why would it complain about a field and then claim that the field is unknown?
Jan 20 01:19:34 <pfn> shadynastys, dunno, but no idea what warning you got and what you did to mitigate
Jan 20 01:20:08 <shadynastys> I posted the note. the line I used. and the resulting Note.
Jan 20 01:21:10 <shadynastys> I have many similar notes that I have tried to fix with similar configuration lines and similar results.
Jan 20 01:23:41 <danijoo> shadynastys, since the line is saying something about gson, i assume you try to adjust proguard for gson shadynastys ?
Jan 20 01:24:06 <danijoo> if yes, why dont you use one of the dozen config examples for gson that are available online
Jan 20 01:24:33 <danijoo> theres even an official one: https://github.com/google/gson/blob/master/examples/android-proguard-example/proguard.cfg this sh
Jan 20 01:24:51 <danijoo> if you add this lines to your proguard, all gson related errors are gon
Jan 20 01:24:54 <danijoo> gone
Jan 20 01:27:21 <shadynastys> danijoo: I wish that was true
Jan 20 01:27:24 <shadynastys> https://gist.github.com/px-amaac/60efd1dba923796d33bb
Jan 20 01:27:32 <shadynastys> here is my current proguard gonfig
Jan 20 01:27:55 <shadynastys> I have seen the example configs you painted to.
Jan 20 01:28:10 <shadynastys> I still get Notes warning me about gson stuff
Jan 20 01:28:47 <shadynastys> things like Note: the configuration refers to the unknown class 'sun.misc.Unsafe'
Jan 20 01:28:53 <danijoo> the file you posted misses lines from the example config
Jan 20 01:29:26 <shadynastys> Which lines?
Jan 20 01:29:48 <danijoo> -keep class com.google.gson.examples.android.model.** { *; }
Jan 20 01:30:16 <shadynastys> That is for your models which as far as I know we do not have. I will double check
Jan 20 01:30:31 <danijoo> oh you are right :>
Jan 20 01:30:55 <shadynastys> Use of gson is very limited in this project
Jan 20 01:31:20 <danijoo> let me check my own conifg... i use gson too
Jan 20 01:31:31 <shadynastys> :) ty
Jan 20 01:33:32 <danijoo> http://pastebin.com/yUQXe671 may it help you
Jan 20 01:33:42 <danijoo> i have to go now unfortunatly . but good luck
Jan 20 01:34:20 <shadynastys> ty danijoo have a good day.
Jan 20 01:42:28 <Calguy> what does new ArrayList<~> do?
Jan 20 01:42:33 <Calguy> never seen ~ before
Jan 20 01:46:54 <bankai_> intellij code folding
Jan 20 01:49:53 <surf2b1> Napalm, after some insane reflection I got it working. http://pastebin.com/taBVEk0R
Jan 20 01:50:16 <Napalm> surf2b1: are you serious?
Jan 20 01:50:29 <Napalm> that is the worst idea ever
Jan 20 01:50:40 <Napalm> especially when the platform gives you ways to change the colotr
Jan 20 01:50:41 <surf2b1> it's the only way to do it dynamically
Jan 20 01:50:43 <Napalm> color
Jan 20 01:50:44 <TacticalJoke> I'm sure there've been worse ideas.
Jan 20 01:50:46 <Napalm> no its not
Jan 20 01:51:05 <surf2b1> Napalm, show me how to do it dynamically... you can't :P
Jan 20 01:51:22 <Napalm> TacticalJoke: oh rly? using reflection on one of most changing parts that now gets updated dynamically using the play store, yea
Jan 20 01:51:30 <Napalm> surf2b1: its a theme property
Jan 20 01:51:36 <Napalm> just use a ContextThemeWrapper
Jan 20 01:51:54 <surf2b1> Napalm, you still can't. there is no public API
Jan 20 01:52:02 <Napalm> yes you can
Jan 20 01:52:14 <surf2b1> Napalm, $20
Jan 20 01:52:27 <pfn> reflection is just the worst thing ever
Jan 20 01:52:52 <pfn> <WebView android:theme="@style/MyEdgeGlowTheme"/>
Jan 20 01:52:54 <pfn> where's my $20
Jan 20 01:52:57 <surf2b1> Napalm, I'll literally give you $20 if you can set the edge effect glow color dynamically without reflection.
Jan 20 01:53:03 <pfn> if you're using appcompat
Jan 20 01:53:06 <pfn> if not, ContextThemeWrapper
Jan 20 01:54:23 <pfn> new WebView(new ContextThemeWrapper(R.style.MyThemeOverlay))
Jan 20 01:54:59 <surf2b1> pfn, after the WebView is created
Jan 20 01:55:20 <Napalm> surf2b1: why after?
Jan 20 01:55:44 <surf2b1> check out my app, Root Check: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jrummyapps.rootchecker&hl=en
Jan 20 01:55:51 <surf2b1> you can change the primary color to anything
Jan 20 01:56:00 <surf2b1> so, can't use immutable styles
Jan 20 01:56:13 <StarLight> are you talking about API level 21+? because as far as I know changing overscroll color in theme is possible only on 21+
Jan 20 01:56:46 <surf2b1> StarLight, you can do it from 14+ with reflection
Jan 20 01:57:05 <TacticalJoke> Napalm:  Yeah, but there have been worse ideas.  :D
Jan 20 01:57:06 <StarLight> yeah, I know. Talking specifically about doing it with theme
Jan 20 01:57:11 <TacticalJoke> Such as mass murder.
Jan 20 01:57:36 <Napalm> StarLight: pre-v21 > https://github.com/slightfoot/android-edge-effect-override
Jan 20 01:57:50 <Napalm> without reflection
Jan 20 01:57:52 <Napalm> :P
Jan 20 01:57:59 <Napalm> TacticalJoke: true
Jan 20 02:05:16 <pfn> surf2b1, why would you do it after the webview is created
Jan 20 02:05:43 <surf2b1> pfn, because I have a preference to change the primary, accent and background colors to anything
Jan 20 02:05:58 <pfn> so recreate the webview when the preference changes
Jan 20 02:06:02 <pfn> instead of using reflection nonsense
Jan 20 02:06:16 <pfn> or even just recreate the activity
Jan 20 02:06:26 <surf2b1> pfn, it fails on Android M.
Jan 20 02:06:43 <pfn> "it" what does, your reflection nonsense?
Jan 20 02:06:51 <pfn> recreating webview and/or activity doesn't fail
Jan 20 02:06:58 <surf2b1> no, recreating the activity for the new color
Jan 20 02:07:07 <surf2b1> the new color is cached
Jan 20 02:07:08 <pfn> that's false, it does take effect
Jan 20 02:07:13 <surf2b1> * primary color
Jan 20 02:07:31 <pfn> you have a member that you're holding onto that's preventing it from showing
Jan 20 02:08:56 <surf2b1> pfn, no, major changes were made to TypedArray and Resources on M. I was overridding Resources to return the user selected color but M messed it up.
Jan 20 02:09:54 <easyOnMe> hello
Jan 20 02:10:18 <easyOnMe> I am trying to run my samsung device as the emulator for my app
Jan 20 02:10:35 <easyOnMe> thing is when I issue the adv devices command from the terminal it says the device if offline
Jan 20 02:10:53 <easyOnMe> I do not understand this because my device is connected to my laptop via usb
Jan 20 02:11:31 <drose379> Can I set text color from a shape drawable
Jan 20 02:12:41 <philwantsfish> im confused when i call notifyDataSetChanged on my adapter, I'm using a loader manager, doesnt the loader handle changing the adapters data in onLoadFinished ?
Jan 20 02:12:44 <TacticalJoke> easyOnMe:  So many causes.  Did you try everything that shows up when googling this problem?
Jan 20 02:13:50 <easyOnMe> TacticalJoke: one minute please
Jan 20 02:14:13 <microt> easyOnMe: did you try killing and restarting the adb server? Tried different cables? You can always do adb over wifi
Jan 20 02:17:58 <easyOnMe> microt: how do I do it over wifi then
Jan 20 02:18:31 <TacticalJoke> You have to connect via USB before you can connect wirelessly.
Jan 20 02:18:59 <TacticalJoke> Unless you're rooted, I think.
Jan 20 02:20:09 <easyOnMe> TacticalJoke: ok I got this solution from the internet to unplug the usb then switch off debugger and then turn it back on and then plug usb back and type adb devices from the terminal
Jan 20 02:20:34 <easyOnMe> the reply from the terminal is a device with a new id number but still says offline
Jan 20 02:20:44 <easyOnMe> https://diptimayapatra.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/android-device-is-offline-but-connected-for-usb-debugging/
Jan 20 02:32:51 <microt> ah, I didn't realize you needed to connect to usb first w/out root
Jan 20 02:33:31 <g00s> a ubuntu tablet http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-and-bq-to-unveil-the-first-ubuntu-tablet-that-runs-x11-apps-at-mwc-2016-499131.shtml
Jan 20 02:34:05 <g00s> eh, X11 gross
Jan 20 02:41:00 <gopar_> g00s, what happen to the ububntu phone
Jan 20 02:41:13 <g00s> umm ... no idea
Jan 20 02:46:05 <capella> It ran away with the Firefox Phone ?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 20 02:59:59 2016