**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 03 03:00:02 2017 Jan 03 05:05:42 hey Jan 03 05:05:54 hi Jan 03 05:05:54 why do so many people run an x86 android emulator inside vmware? Jan 03 05:06:02 like whats the point lol Jan 03 05:06:14 er x86 android vm, inside vmware Jan 03 05:06:32 because virtual is cool Jan 03 05:06:41 but wouldnt it be much slower? Jan 03 05:06:46 than just running the thing Jan 03 05:06:48 which is already a vm Jan 03 05:06:49 heh Jan 03 05:06:59 but it would not be as cool Jan 03 05:07:10 haha ok, so no real reason then? Jan 03 05:07:16 or none that you know atleast Jan 03 05:07:50 I run an android emulator inside a windows 8 inside vmware inside linux inside a vmware inside windows 10 Jan 03 05:08:00 XinXanXoom who is "so many people" ... i don't hear of anybody doing it Jan 03 05:08:16 and Melatonina is just trolling you Jan 03 05:08:21 if I google it, its like the first few pages of results Jan 03 05:08:33 I never heard anybody doing it either Jan 03 05:08:42 g00s: it's not trolling. It's humor Jan 03 05:09:13 XinXanXoom: they ran an android image inside vmware Jan 03 05:09:34 XinXanXoom: which is like running an android image inside any other virtual machine Jan 03 05:09:44 right, but my point is like Jan 03 05:09:50 doesnt the android sdk run android vm's already? Jan 03 05:09:55 natively within windows Jan 03 05:10:01 and wouldnt that be the fastest method Jan 03 05:10:02 they run under qemu Jan 03 05:10:07 right, qemu Jan 03 05:10:17 so many carriage returns :( Jan 03 05:10:36 no, android emulator uses qemu. genymotion uses another virtual machine Jan 03 05:10:40 benkai IRC doesn't use \r at all only \n ;D Jan 03 05:10:43 like most sane things ;D Jan 03 05:11:17 genymotion I didn't much care for. Bluestacks works beautifully but its got bugs with a few apps I need to use Jan 03 05:11:41 I really just want to use the native x86 android 7.0 source whatever Jan 03 05:11:48 I guess even as above Jan 03 05:11:54 the question becomes like Jan 03 05:11:57 get a device which can run android Jan 03 05:12:11 is there a benefit to using vmware over qemu Jan 03 05:12:26 why don't you 'like' try and 'like' see how you 'like' like it Jan 03 05:12:41 XinXanXoom are you a developer ? Jan 03 05:12:48 given qemu is their 'native' choice id assume it would have technologies they make use of advantageously Jan 03 05:12:55 bankai_, we get it, you're 50. Jan 03 05:13:10 no need to go on and on about it you dont have much time left on this earth xoxo Jan 03 05:13:13 xD Jan 03 05:13:19 g00s, yeah Jan 03 05:13:21 anyone here have experience with Appium? Jan 03 05:13:26 but not for android, for web stuff Jan 03 05:13:51 so we're doing like a little webview wrapper etc etc Jan 03 05:13:51 bankai_ have you used aws lambda by any chance ? :D Jan 03 05:14:00 probablyarobot_: XinXanXoom has experience with Oppium, appareently Jan 03 05:14:14 so nobody has any input? :) Jan 03 05:14:16 close enough Jan 03 05:14:16 nuh, i don't have time for anything atm :( Jan 03 05:15:01 XinXanXoom: have a nice 2017. Good luck Jan 03 05:15:22 lol thanks Jan 03 05:15:23 you too Jan 03 05:16:13 Melatonina: I was under the impression that the important thing about the Android emulator was that it used HAXM Jan 03 05:16:25 ...which is irritatingly unfunctional for non-Intel people. Jan 03 05:16:41 Under LInux it just seems to go Jan 03 05:16:47 "LOL" and invokes KVM Jan 03 05:17:54 lol Jan 03 05:23:14 Did I say anything wrong? Jan 03 05:23:39 No, but you slightly missed the meat of the matter Jan 03 05:25:12 For sure, unvarnished VirtualBox is about hte worst option possible Jan 03 05:26:03 QEMU tho' is pretty nice when it's not being snooty and demanding HAXM Jan 03 05:26:53 I wasn't aware of why Android Emulator is the "default" android emulator. What I meant is that, unless you have a proper device, 1) you always use a virtual machine 2) what he probably ready is not that people "run Android Emulator" inside a VMWare but that people use VMWare as one virtual machine in which they run Android Jan 03 05:27:12 "he probably read" Jan 03 05:28:17 never use emulator Jan 03 05:28:26 he was literally asking "Why do people run Android Emulator inside VMWare?" Jan 03 05:28:29 thats why you own 15 phones and a broken motherboard Jan 03 05:28:31 Probably because no one's bothered to stick a nicely documented virtual hardware definition into KVM for whatever the hell Android decides it needs Jan 03 05:28:55 Like, there's some docs there but they don't really elaborate much beyond "This is the ARM emulator" Jan 03 05:29:12 AS just "makes it work" and that's all we have to care about Jan 03 05:29:35 pooka: I own just 1 phone Jan 03 05:29:40 depends on if u are actually running the arm model, or the x86_64 counterpart (which boots faster) Jan 03 05:30:09 arm without iommu Jan 03 05:30:34 I can't speak for HAXM ebcause the only place I see it working is on my slightly dated laptop, but Genymotion makes the magic happen pretty damn well using ARM emulation Jan 03 05:30:51 Under Linux on the same thing it's just "*bloop* here's the emulator" Jan 03 05:31:53 At some point I need to sit down and filch the configs out of it so I can point them at my actual VM host Jan 03 05:32:14 The idea of running phones on the same machine a bunch of webservers and databases are running just feels unnatural tho Jan 03 05:32:53 need a seperate rig to prevent intrusion Jan 03 05:33:36 That I'm not really worried about Jan 03 05:34:45 Anyone that breaks into that host is going to probably call me up demanding I justify WTF I did with the disks Jan 03 05:35:42 I wanted to push the bounds of what iommu and virtio would put up with, so there's actually LVM slices being exported back out from VMs into the parent and back again Jan 03 05:36:03 ...and then I allocated the rest of the disk so... I don't really have a way to *undo* that until i get another pair of 3Tb disks Jan 03 05:39:16 but what if Jan 03 05:39:42 If the UPS fails, I'm not entirely sure a particular database server is coming back up again. heh Jan 03 05:41:11 I prefer to find out how misconfigured things misbehave _personally_, because I'd rather have the experience figuring out how to fix them at my leisure, and not at 2am after some greenhorn has just spanned the wrong volume Jan 03 06:32:40 is there a default limit in firebase db? Jan 03 06:34:47 default limit for what? Jan 03 06:35:05 queries Jan 03 06:35:14 thats actually a good question mela Jan 03 06:35:29 wondering if i need to implement any pagination mechanism Jan 03 06:37:11 raoul11: https://www.tutorialspoint.com/firebase/firebase_filtering_data.htm Jan 03 06:37:39 Are you talking about "limitToFirst" / "limitToLast"? Jan 03 06:37:49 no Jan 03 06:38:04 Then I don't understand you, sorry Jan 03 06:38:32 i am talking bout if there's a hardset limit of how many results are returned by a single query Jan 03 06:38:59 and if so, i should probably make some pagination mechanism to handle the rest of the results Jan 03 06:40:00 My understanding is that you limit the number of results with those methods, if you want to. Otherwise you get all the results Jan 03 06:40:09 ? Jan 03 06:40:16 * raoul11 thepooshes thepoosh Jan 03 06:40:18 But I never worked with large datasets with firebase db Jan 03 06:40:25 hi thep Jan 03 06:40:26 yoyoyo Jan 03 06:40:27 thepoosh i am talking bout if there's a hardset limit of how many results are returned by a single query Jan 03 06:40:32 firebase db Jan 03 06:40:40 oh Jan 03 06:40:42 i want ALL results without pagination Jan 03 06:40:47 why?! Jan 03 06:40:49 and by all i mean trillions Jan 03 06:40:59 or 100's Jan 03 06:41:06 sounds like bad UX Jan 03 06:41:17 its on a nonui thread Jan 03 06:41:26 still, bad behaviour Jan 03 06:41:37 why get all the information when only some is important? Jan 03 06:41:52 all of it is important Jan 03 06:42:05 then do not set a limit Jan 03 06:42:12 its just basic userdata needed for a function checkups way later on Jan 03 06:42:32 has no interaction with user requests or UI Jan 03 06:43:20 I don't understand your worry Jan 03 06:43:55 when you perform a SELECT on a RDBMS you get all result, unless you limit them Jan 03 06:44:15 when you query Firebase db you get all results, unless you limit them Jan 03 06:44:22 sounds good Jan 03 06:44:31 dont see it in their docs Jan 03 06:45:51 then I'm sure there is some hard limit which could make the thing crash but I'm sure google prevents you to store more data then what they can send to you as a query result. If they didn't do that, it's a bug and they will fix it eventually. But the API works like that. Jan 03 06:47:07 if you "reduce" the data (for example, compute a sum), you can just eat all results one by one, without worries about filling the memory of your device Jan 03 06:47:36 if you store all results, you should paginate anyway using filters Jan 03 06:49:30 k Jan 03 08:35:54 Is there a way to draw text on google maps without having the text as an icon and drawing it as a marker? Jan 03 09:05:47 <[Saint]> I can think of ways but they aren't pretty. Jan 03 09:06:56 <[Saint]> the most obvious and perhaps the most ugly is drawing text in with a transparent foreground overlay. Jan 03 09:12:19 Hmm, the problem is that it would have to move and scale with the map surface. Jan 03 09:12:53 woow Jan 03 09:12:55 Markers have the issue that they don't scale. (Plus apparently I'm to stupid to draw text into a bitmap...) Jan 03 09:12:59 remix player is SLOW Jan 03 09:13:02 SO SLOW Jan 03 10:05:41 Good evening. Jan 03 10:07:00 [Saint], turns out GroundOverlays are working pretty well Jan 03 10:07:09 Cool. Jan 03 10:08:08 <[Saint]> Syzygy: yeah, I mean - I knew it would work, I just (rightfully) put it in the "Oh God that's disgusting" basket. Jan 03 10:08:21 <[Saint]> I mean, if it's an acceptable process for you...more power to you. Jan 03 10:08:40 can you explain your disgust with that? Jan 03 10:11:25 <[Saint]> Syzygy: if at all possible I generally try and avoid overdraw because it gets tempting to abuse it and then performance plummets. Jan 03 10:13:22 <[Saint]> Oooooh, shit, sorry - groundoverlay, I misread. Jan 03 10:13:31 But the overlay you suggested would do the same thing. In any case, thanks for your concern. Displaying 5 GroundOverlays at the same time would be an extreme case I guess, and they get removed. Jan 03 10:13:56 Oh, you thought I would use a regular overlay? Jan 03 10:38:48 is it bad practice to give unique IDs to included layouts? Jan 03 11:40:04 Can I share a video on facebook without uploading it? Jan 03 11:40:31 how would that work Melatonina? Jan 03 11:40:54 like adding a clickable image to my own service Jan 03 11:41:25 adding a clickable image to an external service, like youtube or my own service Jan 03 11:42:06 If you share a YT video it can be seen on FB, but I bet it's not uploaded to it, so my guess is "Yes" Jan 03 11:42:17 You can always try it and delete it if it's not what you thought Jan 03 11:44:21 Hi! Is BroadCastReceiver intended for: listen for "outside" (internet) event? (for example: socket, websocket message) Jan 03 11:44:42 or i should use service instead? Jan 03 11:45:20 how to get html source code from webView when it loads a webpage by ajax ? Jan 03 11:46:12 superstep: socket/websocket listening in service Jan 03 11:46:25 Ashiren: thanks! Jan 03 11:46:38 BroadCastReceiver is more for network change event Jan 03 11:46:59 MarkRS: I guess I'll have to study facebook too. Thanks Jan 03 11:48:13 Ashiren: what you mean for "network change event"? Jan 03 11:49:21 MarkRS: I don't want to share ONE video on Facebook myself. I'd like to add a "share on Facebook" button in my Android application but I want the video to remain on my cloud Jan 03 11:49:57 Ashiren: from doc: A broadcast receiver is a component that enables the system to deliver events to the app outside of a regular user flow Jan 03 11:49:59 "cloud"... I mean my server Jan 03 11:50:03 Still gotta test it Melatonina :) Jan 03 11:50:11 superstep: the system informs i.e. if user switched to wifi or cellular Jan 03 11:50:30 you can make your own broadcast receiver, but still imo it would require service Jan 03 11:50:34 Ashiren: ohhh! now i got, thanks Jan 03 12:03:31 has anyone had experience with Selendroid or Appium ? Jan 03 12:09:15 i only want browser automation on android like desktop browser automation anyone know a way to achieve it ? Jan 03 12:09:40 browserstack Jan 03 12:11:18 deebo : does it work on release mode app and independent from server unlike selendroid and appium ? Jan 03 12:11:46 i have no idea what you mean by that Jan 03 12:13:26 i mean , when i use selendroid or appium for automation they need to run their servers on host Jan 03 12:14:51 so you want to automate something on your device? Jan 03 12:16:20 yh Jan 03 12:17:32 i got it is not what i want Jan 03 12:20:03 guys, is it real to find remote job as junior android developer? :) how do yo think, which salary can i get? :) Jan 03 12:22:42 What's a "junior developer" for you? Jan 03 12:23:43 Mavrik, person who know has basic andoroid dev knowledge (java, android sdk) and can accomplish simple tasks. Jan 03 12:24:13 its best to get onsite experience first Jan 03 12:24:15 junior developer, usually once with minor or no real experience Jan 03 12:24:35 I doubt you'll get a remote job with such skills. Jan 03 12:24:58 If you can execute (build a full application, keep quality up, manage the project yourself and communicate with the client) then yes. Jan 03 12:25:13 But I find that unlikely if your knowledge is very basic - if you need mentoring, most companies will want you onsite. Jan 03 12:25:15 Ashiren, yep. without any real world app development experience. Mostly book's knowledge Jan 03 12:25:38 well full-remote? unlikely Jan 03 12:25:50 Mavrik, got it, thx for opinion. Jan 03 12:26:25 For remote work it's kinda crucial you can be given a task and will do it well by yourself. Jan 03 12:26:44 Having a bit of practical experience will significantly improve your chances Č= Jan 03 12:26:46 :) Jan 03 12:26:58 also if youre looking for a job, make github account first and possibly google play account as well and put there your projects and apps Jan 03 12:27:08 it will be almost equivalent to having experience Jan 03 12:27:36 guys, if you were to do an interview with person who want to became junior in your company - what questions would you ask him? Jan 03 12:27:40 Ashiren, got it thx! Jan 03 12:29:15 i got my first job after i put my 2 games/apps into google play. quite part of interview took about how did i made the games, what libraries did i use etc Jan 03 12:29:44 of course there were some theoretical question as well Jan 03 12:30:07 Ashiren, cool. thx! were it complex games? (in technology layout) Jan 03 12:31:20 not quite, one i was doing for 2 months after hours in my free time Jan 03 12:31:47 tetris-like game using libgdx and paper soccer using android layout and custom view Jan 03 12:32:12 Ashiren, cool. Jan 03 12:33:25 but i dont make games at work :v Jan 03 12:38:29 guys, can you give few advice for beginner? :) Jan 03 12:38:32 "What did you do until now?" is pretty much the first thing I ask as well. Jan 03 12:40:47 plunder & pillage Jan 03 12:42:04 Mavrik, until now - worked in tech support (primary unix like) Jan 03 12:42:37 where do you see yourself in 5 years from now? - in mirror Jan 03 12:43:47 bed mirror Ashiren Jan 03 12:44:01 thepoosh, I forgot again T_T Jan 03 12:44:04 like the one you usually see in cheap brothels Jan 03 12:44:06 maybe tonight! Jan 03 12:44:07 so iv heard. Jan 03 12:44:53 Ashiren, well, i'll see robust developer Jan 03 12:45:35 hhee: "robust" as in "overweight"? Jan 03 12:46:22 dont undertand question Jan 03 12:46:26 Yaay, I'm a robust developer. Jan 03 12:46:30 understand* Jan 03 12:46:35 Syzygy, cool :) Jan 03 12:47:11 Syzygy: WHYYY Jan 03 12:47:44 * raoul11 thepooshes thepoosh Jan 03 12:47:49 oh myyy Jan 03 12:47:57 because it was the first time I had me time since the 26th... Jan 03 12:48:58 hhee: why do you want to become an Android developer? what kind of application do you want to work on? in what role? in what field? how much do you want to make per year? where do you want to work? what other aims have for yourself as human being? Jan 03 12:49:11 hhee: that's what he's asking, more or less Jan 03 12:49:19 so i am getting a stream of a pojo with an image url i need to render in a recyclerview: best approach in rendering those images? Jan 03 12:49:45 raoul11, image view? Jan 03 12:49:52 Glide -> ImageView Jan 03 12:49:58 glide Jan 03 12:49:59 k Jan 03 12:50:21 or Picasso Jan 03 12:50:32 Melatonina, got it Jan 03 12:52:03 Mavrik: on onBindViewHolder extract url from pojo, load with glide? Jan 03 12:52:20 I like android, has several phones with it on the board. Want to create some cool app (similar im using) want to know how all this work. about salary - dunno. want to work remotly. music :) Jan 03 12:52:32 Yes, there's an API made exactly for binding images inside list/recyclerviews that handles cancelation and stuff Jan 03 12:53:11 what did we ever do to deserve libs like retrofit, glide Jan 03 12:55:39 raoul11: don't you like them? Jan 03 12:55:52 i said that in a good way Jan 03 12:55:58 ah, ok Jan 03 12:56:08 havnt touched glide yet, but im loving retrofit Jan 03 12:56:14 You have been a good person. In a past life, obviously Jan 03 12:56:43 doubt it Melatonina Jan 03 12:57:01 then you don't deserve it and should write the code from scratch Jan 03 12:57:03 :D Jan 03 12:57:12 right Jan 03 12:57:48 Keep talking like that and you won't deserve it in your next life either raoul11 ! Jan 03 12:57:49 writing it from scratch would most likely push me towards suicide or worse, doing wordpress theming Jan 03 13:00:16 well, they are well polished libraries and all but I don't think that's rocket science Jan 03 13:01:14 I'm grateful I can use them but I would not suicide myself I they weren't available Jan 03 13:02:28 if Jan 03 13:08:37 One of my activities works in immersive mode. When the devices goes to sleep and I awake it I find the activity out of immersive mode. Is it normal? How do I prevent that? Jan 03 13:13:50 save its state and restore it Jan 03 13:15:37 adq: sorry, what state should I save? Jan 03 13:16:14 adq: it's basically just an activity with one retained fragment inside Jan 03 13:16:44 you would save all those SYSTEM_UI_FLAG_* flags and restore them.. Jan 03 13:17:13 adq: I'll look into that. Thanks Jan 03 13:18:04 or maybe you got played by the activity lifecycle and not settings those flags where you should Jan 03 13:18:10 lolcycle* Jan 03 13:26:23 I may be one of the few people who actually like Jira but is there a simpler, preferably free, alternative for hobbyists? I need: Burndown charts, User stories with estimated time + actual time spent and sprints. Ideally i'd like to be able to have subtasks to each user story but its not essential Jan 03 13:26:56 liefer: wrong channel? Jan 03 13:27:18 its a developer question no? Jan 03 13:27:51 about Android? Jan 03 13:28:05 Does it matter? It's a good question. Jan 03 13:28:13 liefer, does perhaps Trello do something similar? Jan 03 13:28:35 Trello is okay, but i dont think it does much timetracking/burndown charts Jan 03 13:28:59 but yeah, something like that would be great Jan 03 13:31:14 liefer: sorry, I didn't mean to shut you up. Jan 03 13:31:47 liefer: I sincerely wondered if you used the wrong tab by mistake, at first Jan 03 13:32:06 its okay Jan 03 13:32:13 ill forgive you if you give me a good jira alternative :) Jan 03 13:32:59 :D I don't use bug tracking at the moment. I didn't release anything yet Jan 03 13:33:30 Guys, my video player does fling playback forward and reverse! Jan 03 13:35:22 No one cares. I must have overestimated the appeal of this feature. Better to go back to the server side now. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 03 13:48:04 2017 Jan 03 13:51:15 What feature of your Android application are you working on currently, guys? Jan 03 13:56:15 :) Jan 03 13:56:25 Automatic checker for proper .so files in the APK :) Jan 03 13:58:33 what is the best alternative for firebase in real database ? Jan 03 14:12:40 What bad things will happen if I don't make my mutable bitmaps immutable? Jan 03 14:14:12 Is there something generally wrong with creating a "list item" for a recyclerview using LinearLayout and not RelativeLayout ? I see every example of this is using RelativeLayout as parent always. Jan 03 14:14:30 "list item" being the layout of the item being placed in the recyclerview Jan 03 14:16:09 the root layout should be linear, you can nest a relative one Jan 03 14:17:19 raoul11, so the "first" example here: http://pastebin.com/GybYJPJR is correct? Jan 03 14:17:38 the top layout is mine, and the second one is drawn from Firebase's own docs Jan 03 14:22:21 looks fine Jan 03 14:22:38 you can do both, but do what fits u Jan 03 14:22:45 okey, thanks! Jan 03 14:51:47 what happened to the "top new" categories in the play store app? Jan 03 15:06:44 Does https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/07/changes-to-trusted-certificate.html mean that I can't use Charles Proxy to view network traffic in other apps anymore? Jan 03 15:07:07 On apps api 24+? Jan 03 15:07:55 Mavrik: why does you application need to check its own APK? Jan 03 16:17:09 got an issue with recyclerview: i am adding items from retrofit paginated responses (when togglin to the lastcurrentitem), and passing the list of the accumulated items to the adapter - what happens is that the recyclerview basically displays the items from the begining, and not from the last visible item before the next response Jan 03 16:46:00 Has anyone else had a red/pinkish bottom "line" in their EditText? Jan 03 17:07:18 http://pastebin.com/bTF5xWfX looks like this , and the cursor refuses to appear also.. Jan 03 17:12:29 Start by removing the redundant elements Jan 03 17:14:27 Dagmar, which are those? Jan 03 17:16:12 when I adding to dependencies 'gradleApi()' gradle creating 'gradle-api-{version}.jar' in cache and adds it in classpath Jan 03 17:16:19 question is - how to create and/or reference sources and java docs for gradle api? Jan 03 17:16:25 my IDE isn't telling me about any redudant elements Jan 03 17:31:56 so the design guides talk specifics about margins and stuff for the design team, is there a resource that shows the xml of how to do some of the common things as BEST Practices for layout.xml's ? Jan 03 17:32:47 I assume my design team thinks I am a master at layouts today, and for some reason, before today I thought i was too Jan 03 17:36:58 Has anyone tried implementing in-app purchasing & doing server-side verification? Jan 03 17:37:06 Could u advice on any tutorial I could follow? Jan 03 17:37:08 Im trying to implement an option for people to pay for disabling ads. Jan 03 18:09:14 dar10s: you are the best at layout. Never saw anybody better than you Jan 03 18:09:28 dar10s: not even close Jan 03 18:11:13 In general people should do best practices in their XML. ;) Jan 03 18:13:28 Dagmar: what do you mean? People should but they often don't, otherwise there wouldn't be worse practices and they wouldn't be called "best". He asked for best practices represented in XML. Jan 03 18:14:27 Melatonina: Doing best practices in one's XML generally yields better results than doing them in the refrigerator. Jan 03 18:15:25 Dagmar: you can describe best practices in English. One example? The whole Material Design guide. Jan 03 18:15:33 dar10s, some best practices are avoid deep hierachy (too many nested views) or favor flat hierarchy, don't use too many views (above 64 but it's arbitrary, you'd better make some customviews) etc Jan 03 18:15:33 I suppose someone could try wrappering it in Jan 03 18:15:58 Melatonina: Yeah but that's a style guide. Jan 03 18:17:08 and considering the design guidelines, probably better than nothing but lot of issues in there Jan 03 18:17:15 margin often mixed up with padding... Jan 03 18:17:22 missing dimensions or wrong captions, etc Jan 03 18:17:33 it's a real mess on some specific parts Jan 03 18:17:44 but the overal is still good enough to give hint/direction Jan 03 18:19:25 Dagmar: yeah, in case your brain is not able to process the concept: he's asking for some layout XML files implementing that style guide. Jan 03 18:20:15 Dagmar: maybe you are not interested in that. Maybe I'm not interested either. He is. Jan 03 18:20:46 plenty online Jan 03 18:21:40 i don’t know why, but it seems like I might have only gotten half of this conversation Jan 03 18:25:26 dar10s: I don't know if this can be of help but here is the github of an open source podcast player which claim to follow Material Design guidelines. You can find the app on the Play Store. https://github.com/bottiger/SoundWaves Jan 03 18:29:58 you are welcome Jan 03 18:54:13 Good afternoon. Jan 03 18:55:49 puff: hi Jan 03 18:56:28 I'm trying to get a better feel for how the android framework puts things together. Jan 03 18:56:44 Speaking of which, is there a commonly accepted abbreviation for the android framework? AF? Jan 03 18:58:08 I'm not sure there is such a thing as "the Android framework" at all, properly speaking. Jan 03 18:58:46 hi all Jan 03 18:58:51 michael_mbp: hi. Jan 03 18:58:59 Well, that's the point, I guess. I get really frustrated with the passive voice descriptions. Stuff just magically happens. No, something is doing something. Something, presumably some part of the Android Framework that I keep seeing references to, loads up a class file, instantiates an activity, etc. Jan 03 18:59:14 Actually, if you google "android framework" you'll find frameworks to build applications on Android Jan 03 18:59:27 we've run into some difficulty with 600dp views renering in say a generic 7" tablet vs Nexus 7. Jan 03 19:00:23 puff: but it's really just magic. Nobody knows how Android works outside of Google and only few selected people at Google are initiated to the magic art of Android Jan 03 19:02:07 puff: havent seen AF so far for that but you started it now it is good for us here Jan 03 19:02:08 puff: as hard as it is, you kinda have to let go of that need to know everything if you want to get something done Jan 03 19:02:40 s73v3r: maybe... Jan 03 19:02:43 Melatonina: Well, like this... I'm trying to understand the relationship between the layout/views/widgets and the Activity. Jan 03 19:02:56 an Activity has a View Jan 03 19:03:03 puff: from time to time some people here start asking questions, like you do. Then they start browsing the Android source code and then they stop getting here. Nobody hears anything about them anymore. They never come back. Jan 03 19:03:12 Melatonina: :-) Jan 03 19:03:37 Can OkHttp WebSocket be used for socket.io? Jan 03 19:03:51 Melatonina: Android instantiates the Activity. Android also, at some point, loads and parses the layout XML file, and then instantiates a tree of ViewGroups that contain Widgets. Jan 03 19:04:08 puff: if you want to see how an XML layout gets turned into Views, check out the LayoutInflater classes Jan 03 19:04:22 s73v3r: Ah, thanks. Jan 03 19:05:46 puff: if you have the source code of the platform installed you can do right-click "Go to" / "Declaration" Jan 03 19:05:50 Mhm, it also helps if you download the source so you can just CMD+B into framework source Jan 03 19:05:52 Melatonina: As far as I can see, the only thing that ties the Activity to the Layout/ViewGroups/Widgets is that in Activity.onCreate() you're supposed to manually insert a call to this.setContentView(). And then, sometimes in onCreate(), sometimes in various other methods on Activity, you call things like this.getMenuInflator().inflate(), etc. Jan 03 19:05:58 grepcode is also nice to navigate around Jan 03 19:06:28 pretty much Jan 03 19:06:42 puff: just right-click on setContentView() and "go to" "Declaration". Jan 03 19:07:06 puff: we'll miss you Jan 03 19:07:12 Melatonina: Thanks :-). Jan 03 19:07:19 s73v3r, Mavrik Thanks for the pointers. Jan 03 19:08:01 I guess the problem is that everything I've read so far, while they do explain (in various points in various tutorials) that you have to have the setContentView() call in there and the inflate() calls, they sort of gloss over the big picture. Jan 03 19:08:20 In what way? Jan 03 19:08:29 it just depends on what kind of interest you have on the Android platform Jan 03 19:09:05 That is, they *do* say that you define the layout in the XML, and that the layout is then instantiated and hooked up to the Activity, but they never actually say, explicitly, that this hooking up is done only via the calls to setContentView() and inflate() and... is anything else involved? Jan 03 19:09:15 ahh. Jan 03 19:09:22 Yeah, setContentView is enough :) Jan 03 19:09:26 Okay, thanks. Jan 03 19:09:37 Basically the Activity remembers the XML you sey Jan 03 19:09:38 And I've also come across a reference to certain magic happening with ListActivity and TabActivity. Jan 03 19:09:41 *set Jan 03 19:09:44 Ah. Jan 03 19:09:45 Most book barely introduce you to developing applications. Jan 03 19:09:50 books Jan 03 19:09:53 Yeah... so which ones do more? Jan 03 19:09:56 and then inflates the layout when needed Jan 03 19:09:58 Which books do more. Jan 03 19:10:17 Mavrik: Ah, so there's some implicit inflating that goes on, not just the explicit calls to inflate() that you're supposed to add in? Jan 03 19:10:18 But reading Android source is healthy for your progression :) Jan 03 19:10:22 Hah, yeah. Jan 03 19:10:32 puff: inflate() is the call that causes the LayoutInflater to do that Jan 03 19:10:35 mhm, Activity will inflate views itself Jan 03 19:11:10 most books gloss over it because it’s not really important for beginners Jan 03 19:11:30 My problem is that I seem to be weird, as a programmer. Every time I look at something and say to myself, "well if I were going to build this, it would work like *this*..." but it never actually works that way. Eventually I figured this out, so now I don't trust it if I don't understand it... because I know my intuition seems to be orthognal to everybody else's. Jan 03 19:11:46 I need the O'Reilly nutshell book for android, but it doesn't exist. Jan 03 19:11:52 no, you’re not special in that regard Jan 03 19:12:17 Mavrik: Do you have any pointers or keywords for learning more about that self-inflating? Jan 03 19:12:48 Maybe I should just start by reading through the source for Activity. Jan 03 19:12:51 just read the source to the setContentView call Jan 03 19:13:02 Okay, thanks. Jan 03 19:13:16 don’t read through all of Activity. there’s a huge amount of stuff there, that right now would just be noise Jan 03 19:13:20 Hm, is there an easy way to ask Android Studio to fetch all the source for me? Jan 03 19:13:43 i think you can do it in the SDK manager Jan 03 19:14:16 so, have you written an app yet? Jan 03 19:14:47 s73v3r: Yeah, nothing fancy though. Jan 03 19:15:15 ok. you’d want to have written an app or two before you start diving into this. it sounds like you have Jan 03 19:15:17 There's not much to it really Jan 03 19:15:18 http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/5.1.1_r1/com/android/internal/policy/impl/PhoneWindow.java?av=h#363 Jan 03 19:15:44 s73v3r: I wrote two apps a couple years ago, getting back into it now. One uploads a photo to a server. The other HTTP posts a link to a php script. Jan 03 19:16:11 that’s most of what some 85+% of apps do :p Jan 03 19:16:28 Mavrik: I was thinking more downloading it so I could explore it in Android Studio. Jan 03 19:17:21 any of you guys try Vysor? is it reliable? Jan 03 19:17:42 puff, it's right there in the SDK manager Jan 03 19:17:45 g00s, eh Jan 03 19:17:48 a coworker of mine uses it pretty regularly Jan 03 19:17:50 wasn't happy with it Jan 03 19:17:54 he doesn’t seem to have complaints Jan 03 19:17:59 I only tried the free version though Jan 03 19:18:57 fuck that blog posted on Reddit, though Jan 03 19:19:41 ? Č= Jan 03 19:19:42 :) Jan 03 19:19:45 wondering if you have a bunch of devices, i guess each one is a Vysor tab? that could be convenient i guess Jan 03 19:20:06 or does Vysor have a convenient device switcher Jan 03 19:20:27 it also helps if your device has to be away from your desk Jan 03 19:20:33 I think you have a window per device Jan 03 19:20:42