**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 26 02:59:57 2010
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 26 09:33:23 2010
Aug 26 12:11:16 <sybren> hi folks
Aug 26 12:11:45 <sybren> I tried the FAQ, but this question doesn't seem to be answered: how usable is Android on a Freerunner as a day-to-day phone?
Aug 26 13:15:31 <Serdar1> sybren, some people are useing their freerunner with android as a daily phone
Aug 26 13:21:52 <sybren> Serdar1: then I'll give it a try :) It looks like Cupcake is the release for me then - is that correct?
Aug 26 13:52:09 <ohin> sybren: sure
Aug 26 13:55:35 <Serdar1> at the moment, yes
Aug 26 13:55:44 <Serdar1> we are working on froyo
Aug 26 13:56:22 <Serdar1> hi jancona
Aug 26 14:00:31 <sybren> froyo sounds like a hobbit :)
Aug 26 14:01:12 <Serdar1> that's short for frozen yogurt
Aug 26 14:08:37 <sybren> lol
Aug 26 14:12:51 <stongo> hello
Aug 26 15:11:58 <stongo> looks like there's a lot more users in this room than normal!
Aug 26 15:12:26 <gena2x> 'normal'? :)
Aug 26 15:12:45 <stongo> well compared to a few months ago :)
Aug 26 15:13:10 <stongo> it's great, I think people are starting to catch on Android on FR kicks ass!
Aug 26 15:13:28 <gena2x> i just sent sybren here as he had questions about android on openmoko, and decided to take a look :)
Aug 26 15:13:46 <gena2x> how android is going too :)
Aug 26 15:14:01 <stongo> the team's done a great job making a really usable phone out of the Freerunner
Aug 26 15:14:32 <gena2x> it turns out that all distrubutions reach usable state
Aug 26 15:14:53 <gena2x> all, qtmoko, shr-u are now really enjoyable.
Aug 26 15:15:09 <gena2x> i didn't try android recently with my 2-4-2 glamo setting :)
Aug 26 15:15:24 <stongo> yah. it seemed like it wasn't going to happen at one point
Aug 26 15:17:18 <gena2x> and now all this thing are _really_ community driven. and this is really wonderful i think.
Aug 26 15:18:13 <Serdar1> gena2x, how do you make these settings?
Aug 26 15:18:17 <Serdar1> is it a kernel setting?
Aug 26 15:18:36 <gena2x> Serdar1: have you read my mail on openmoko-community?
Aug 26 15:18:45 <gena2x> it makes glamo 33% faster
Aug 26 15:19:06 <gena2x> normally set in bootloader, but can be changed runtime also.
Aug 26 15:19:14 <Serdar1> I guess I didn't :)
Aug 26 15:19:16 <stongo> gena2x: that's crazy. I haven't read it, but I should!
Aug 26 15:19:34 <stongo> gena2x:  any side-effects?
Aug 26 15:19:40 <gena2x> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2010-July/062495.html
Aug 26 15:19:49 <gena2x> stongo: it just works.
Aug 26 15:20:09 <gena2x> stongo: revealed some wsod, but fixed them.
Aug 26 15:20:28 <stongo> awesome
Aug 26 15:20:53 <Serdar1> it would be nice to see the how fast froyo will become after that :)
Aug 26 15:21:07 <Serdar1> gena2x, give me short brief
Aug 26 15:21:11 <stongo> yes!
Aug 26 15:21:25 <Serdar1> you change what? bootloader, kernel, something else?
Aug 26 15:21:40 <gena2x> i doubt i can describe shorter than in mail
Aug 26 15:21:56 <gena2x> bootloader as i told
Aug 26 15:22:10 <gena2x> also you can try it 'right now'
Aug 26 15:22:11 <Serdar1> hmm that makes it difficult
Aug 26 15:22:33 <gena2x> and dinamically switch at any moment
Aug 26 15:22:35 <Serdar1> android has a different layout than shr for example
Aug 26 15:22:37 <gena2x> in fact
Aug 26 15:22:47 <gena2x> just add fix to qi.
Aug 26 15:23:09 <Serdar1> nobody tried to recompile the installer
Aug 26 15:23:14 <gena2x> it's one-liner, just s3c memory bank timings
Aug 26 15:23:24 <Serdar1> okay I tried and I failed :)
Aug 26 15:23:44 <gena2x> people at #openmoko-cdevel recompling it without problems
Aug 26 15:23:53 <Serdar1> our installer?
Aug 26 15:24:14 <gena2x> ah, _installer_
Aug 26 15:24:22 <gena2x> i read 'bootloader' :)
Aug 26 15:24:36 <Serdar1> that's the same :)
Aug 26 15:24:50 <gena2x> but bootloader is qi, yes?
Aug 26 15:24:50 <Serdar1> you read what you want read, right? :D
Aug 26 15:24:55 <Serdar1> yes
Aug 26 15:25:04 <Serdar1> but a patched one.
Aug 26 15:25:06 <gena2x> nope, just mind filtering some things
Aug 26 15:25:23 <gena2x> so i don't see whatever i think i know already
Aug 26 15:25:54 <gena2x> like you then you reading long mails, see only important from your pov things
Aug 26 15:26:06 <gena2x> and miss whatever i think important ;)
Aug 26 15:26:24 <gena2x> i can call this 'internet skill' :)
Aug 26 15:27:14 <gena2x> i just can recall main problem of andoid were slow video.
Aug 26 15:27:18 <Serdar1> I haven't read your mail because lack of time
Aug 26 15:27:32 <gena2x> it's ok.
Aug 26 15:27:57 <Serdar1> but it was open on my twentythousand open taps :)#
Aug 26 15:28:51 <gena2x> ok. i just going here for few minutes, to see how android feels, so i've back to other things.
Aug 26 15:28:53 <gena2x> gl :)
Aug 26 15:29:21 <Serdar1> me too, I need to fight with fuse
Aug 26 15:29:34 <Serdar1> fuse is a hell of software
Aug 26 17:05:35 <stongo> Serdar1: is is possible to change the Glamo settings how gena2x described on AOF... sorry, I missed the end of that conversation
Aug 26 17:06:23 <gena2x> stongo: we didn't spoke much about it after your leave
Aug 26 17:06:52 <stongo> gena2x: is it implemented on any other distros?
Aug 26 17:07:09 <gena2x> as you see it is not distro-specific.
Aug 26 17:07:27 <gena2x> just random people who using different distros use it
Aug 26 17:07:42 <gena2x> it works in qtmoko, debian, shr-u
Aug 26 17:07:58 <stongo> so how would I change the glamo settings, in QI?
Aug 26 17:08:19 <gena2x> for weeks since i published my mail and even before, as we tested it with some people
Aug 26 17:08:48 <gena2x> and they all using it not, and it just works
Aug 26 17:08:54 <gena2x> *now
Aug 26 17:09:07 <stongo> I would be willing to test it on my phone with android, if it's easy enough to change
Aug 26 17:09:14 <gena2x> i can give you link to change it from userspace
Aug 26 17:09:23 <stongo> sure, that would be great
Aug 26 17:09:36 <gena2x> it will take 5 seconds to change it to or back
Aug 26 17:09:54 <gena2x> http://www.bsdmn.com/openmoko/glamo/timings/memwrite.c
Aug 26 17:10:06 <gena2x> tool to change memory, depends on /dev/mem
Aug 26 17:10:16 <gena2x> memwrite $((0x48000008)) $((0x1380))
Aug 26 17:10:29 <gena2x> value in hex you need and memory location.
Aug 26 17:10:52 <gena2x> this may be executed in bash, do not know how it is in adroid.
Aug 26 17:11:36 <stongo> ok cool. I'll see if I can figure it out. thanks.
Aug 26 17:11:39 <gena2x> if you'll get wsods on resume or boot use this patch: http://www.bsdmn.com/openmoko/glamo/gcc44wsfix.diff
Aug 26 17:12:02 <gena2x> this may also fix other wsods, not related to 2-4-2
Aug 26 17:12:22 <gena2x> changed qi exist
Aug 26 17:12:38 <gena2x> but i am using changed u-boot
Aug 26 17:13:35 <stongo> ok. i think the qi for android is specialized. not sure though. would be nice to just replace the qi.
Aug 26 17:14:40 <gena2x> i think source change is trivial in qi.
Aug 26 17:14:58 <gena2x> but android qi is not compatible with other qi because of nand layout
Aug 26 17:27:33 <Serdar1> that's it.
Aug 26 17:28:00 <Serdar1> but there are some methods to use sd based android
Aug 26 17:28:06 <Serdar1> ran000 is working on them
Aug 26 17:28:27 <Serdar1> like I told before no one before me tried to hack our installer and I failed :)
Aug 26 17:28:29 <gena2x> may be it's better to recompile installer?
Aug 26 17:28:58 <gena2x> you may just binary replace values
Aug 26 17:29:08 <gena2x> ah, btw about ws fix
Aug 26 17:29:31 <Serdar1> I guess replace does not work, I tried it
Aug 26 17:29:34 <gena2x> fix for kms .32 kernel, but find similar place in your kernel.
Aug 26 17:29:54 <Serdar1> we are still using .29
Aug 26 17:30:03 <gena2x> it should work on .29
Aug 26 17:30:13 <gena2x> qtmoko and debian are .29 too
Aug 26 17:30:25 <Serdar1> someone wanted trying to port openmoko kernel with android patches
Aug 26 17:35:59 <gena2x> nothing better than .29 exist anyway.
Aug 26 17:36:15 <gena2x> if your .29 is with nodebug of course
Aug 26 17:36:41 <gena2x> btw, is it?
Aug 26 17:45:52 <Serdar1> iirc than yes
Aug 26 17:50:21 <Serdar1> you better ask jancona
Aug 26 17:50:29 <Serdar1> he is our developer
Aug 26 17:50:32 <Serdar1> the one and only
Aug 26 17:50:38 <Serdar1> we need more guys
Aug 26 17:50:52 <gena2x> heh, you may just give me link to kernel config
Aug 26 17:51:20 <gena2x> probably config evailable at /proc/config.gz
Aug 26 17:56:57 <jancona> gena2x: Kernel config for cupcake is at http://gitorious.org/android-on-freerunner/kernel_openmoko/blobs/cupcake/arch/arm/configs/gta02_android_defconfig
Aug 26 17:58:44 <gena2x> it's nodebug, that is ok.
Aug 26 17:59:07 <gena2x> but optimized for size, what is less ok, but still ok.
Aug 26 18:00:08 <jancona> Feel free to contribute patches. Even better if you can build and test them
Aug 26 18:01:43 <gena2x> ah... thanks for 'welcome' sign, but i have to only limit my android expierence with vieweing from time to time, as i already can't do all i want to do.
Aug 26 18:09:14 <Serdar1> and DJ_Steve is the guy who wanted help us porting .32 to android
Aug 26 18:09:46 <Serdar1> hi DJ_Steve
Aug 26 18:09:59 <DJ_Steve> alreet serdar
Aug 26 18:16:17 <gena2x> :)
Aug 26 18:17:11 <DJ_Steve> havent had any time recently to look at kernel - had soem family issues. and am busy configuring myself my own little compile cluster at min, sick of having to wait 4+ hours for android builds
Aug 26 18:20:06 <stongo> DJ_Steve: I'm glad you are helping any way you can :)
Aug 26 18:20:27 * stongo can't help worth a damn
Aug 26 18:20:44 <DJ_Steve> lol well me and my devs have broken a current record for my main device im porting
Aug 26 18:21:22 <stongo> which device is that?
Aug 26 18:21:30 <DJ_Steve> nokia n900
Aug 26 18:21:47 <stongo> cool.
Aug 26 18:21:49 <DJ_Steve> (ill be trying to 'persuade' froyo onto the dell streak also soon
Aug 26 18:22:58 <stongo> wow, you are busy!
Aug 26 18:23:05 <DJ_Steve> yup
Aug 26 18:23:48 <DJ_Steve> but my devs and i 's port on the n900 has broken a current record - its the only alternate os other than meego(which is partially nokia developed) to get natice phone support
Aug 26 18:24:28 <stongo> cool. do you own a consulting company or something?
Aug 26 18:24:39 <DJ_Steve> nah
Aug 26 19:07:55 <sybren> gena2x: I've got android running on my freerunner, it looks nice!
Aug 26 19:07:58 <DJ_Steve> Serdar1 here ?
Aug 26 19:08:49 <sybren> I've downloaded and unpacked the android SDK. When I run "./adb devices" I get an empty list, even when I run it with "sudo".
Aug 26 19:09:02 <DJ_Steve> is usb debug enabled in android
Aug 26 19:09:23 <sybren> no idea :)
Aug 26 19:09:35 <sybren> I'm a complete rookie when it comes to android
Aug 26 19:10:15 <DJ_Steve> settings > applications > development i think its in
Aug 26 19:11:14 <sybren> "usb debugging"? yeah, I got that enabled
Aug 26 19:11:43 <sybren> "lsusb" on my laptop shows my freerunner, as a g_ether device
Aug 26 19:12:20 <DJ_Steve> should be g_android i would of thought
Aug 26 19:12:36 <sybren> Bus 002 Device 006: ID 1457:5122 First International Computer, Inc. OpenMoko Neo1973 / Neo Freerunner kernel cdc_ether USB network
Aug 26 19:12:39 <DJ_Steve> have to let the other devs explain i dont have a freerunenr i just here to try and help
Aug 26 19:12:55 <sybren> I appreciate any help I can get :)
Aug 26 19:40:59 <jancona> sybren: Have you set ADBHOST?
Aug 26 19:43:15 <jancona> Here's the wiki page: http://code.google.com/p/android-on-freerunner/wiki/AndroidDebugBridge
Aug 26 19:52:44 <sybren> jancona: nope, but a manual ifconfig on my local ethernet device to give it an IP address, and a 'adb connect 192.168.0.202:5555' helped
Aug 26 19:52:51 <sybren> :)
Aug 26 19:53:04 <sybren> backup is working now, now to figure out how to import my contacts into the database
Aug 26 19:53:13 <jancona> Cool!
Aug 26 19:53:19 <sybren> :)
Aug 26 19:54:29 <sybren> when I try to insert a value into the contacts.db file, 'people' table, I get this error: Error: no such collation sequence: LOCALIZED
Aug 26 19:59:23 <sybren> right, I'll import my contacts to google, then import that into my phone, rather than trying to hack the sqlite db :)
Aug 26 22:06:55 <Serdar1> DJ_Steve, now I am here
Aug 26 22:07:05 <Serdar1> were at the cinema looking inception :)
Aug 26 22:07:12 <DJ_Steve> ahh
Aug 26 22:09:02 <Serdar1> nice movie
Aug 26 22:09:08 <Serdar1> with a strange ending
Aug 26 22:09:11 <DJ_Steve> yea apprently its great
Aug 26 22:17:04 <sybren> it's very good indeed :)
Aug 26 22:17:27 <sybren> Android on my freerunner is running great, guys, thanks!
Aug 26 22:17:36 <DJ_Steve> lol ive had it on pc for while jus not watched
Aug 26 22:18:11 <sybren> I have one more android question
Aug 26 22:18:31 <sybren> I've pushed images to /sdcard using adb, but they only show up in the gallery after a reboot
Aug 26 22:18:42 <sybren> is there another way to refresh the gallery?
Aug 26 22:22:00 <sybren> never mind, I found the "media scanner"
Aug 26 22:33:58 <Serdar1> you tried cupcake?
Aug 26 22:34:02 <Serdar1> which version?
Aug 26 22:35:02 <Serdar1> http://serdar-dere.net/~serdar/daily/android-on-freerunner-cupcake-daily-20100826.tar.bz2 this one?
Aug 26 22:36:52 <sybren> Serdar1: I tried cupcake, the latest weekly
Aug 26 22:37:02 <sybren> from sometime in april
Aug 26 22:37:37 <sybren> android-on-freerunner-cupcake-week-2010-16.tar.gz
Aug 26 22:53:44 <Serdar1> hm
Aug 26 22:53:51 <Serdar1> okay
Aug 26 22:54:15 <Serdar1> I build yesterday
Aug 26 22:55:50 <stongo> Serdar, I'm going to try your new cupcake build I think. Any issues to know about?
Aug 26 23:01:27 <Serdar1> stongo, you mean cupcake?
Aug 26 23:02:00 <Serdar1> stongo, I added these http://codepad.org/GwUWifYo apns.xml is updated
Aug 26 23:02:09 <stongo> yup. I have been using RC1 for a long time now. I'm curious what some of your new dailies are like
Aug 26 23:02:16 <Serdar1> and issue 139 should be solved
Aug 26 23:03:54 <stongo> cool. you and jancona have been doing a great job, Serdar. I'm glad to see how far cupcake on FR has come.
Aug 26 23:04:08 <stongo> that's exciting to think froyo might be usable with the glamo setting change
Aug 26 23:04:28 <Serdar1> did you changed your glamo settings?
Aug 26 23:04:46 <stongo> not yet. I'm going to though. I'll report back.
Aug 26 23:05:02 <Serdar1> It would be interesting to see, whether this change affect to android and especially froyo
Aug 26 23:05:08 <Serdar1> but froyo is collapsing most of time
Aug 26 23:05:29 <Serdar1> brb
Aug 26 23:05:46 <stongo> is it a porting issue or is it just running out of memory?
Aug 26 23:06:29 <Serdar> k
Aug 26 23:07:04 <stongo> I'll probably try out the glamo setting changes tomorrow
Aug 26 23:07:20 <Serdar> jancona, ping?
Aug 26 23:08:49 <jancona> Hi Serdar
Aug 26 23:09:08 <Serdar> hi Jim
Aug 26 23:09:20 <Serdar> can you change the link on gitorious?
Aug 26 23:09:31 <Serdar> ...build instructions at http://source.android.com/download
Aug 26 23:09:38 <Serdar> this link does not exist anymore
Aug 26 23:10:14 <Serdar> but I don't know which link is correct
Aug 26 23:10:50 <Serdar> I am trying to compile the installer again.
Aug 26 23:11:12 <Serdar> oh
Aug 26 23:11:22 <Serdar> I am getting this after syncing the installer:
Aug 26 23:11:23 <Serdar> error: cannot run gpg: No such file or directory
Aug 26 23:11:23 <Serdar> error: could not run gpg.
Aug 26 23:12:27 <jancona> It looks like the page we want now is http://source.android.com/source/download.html
Aug 26 23:14:27 <jancona> Fixed. Thanks for the heads-up!
Aug 26 23:15:04 <jancona> Don't know about the installer problem.
Aug 26 23:15:08 <Serdar> is our bootloader code up to date?
Aug 26 23:15:34 <jancona> What do you mean by up-to-date?
Aug 26 23:15:35 <Serdar> also kernel? I want to build a new installer with this glamo stuff included
Aug 26 23:16:06 <Serdar> jancona, is it the qi as old as koolu, or a latest one?
Aug 26 23:16:12 <jancona> No, neither has been updated in a long time
Aug 26 23:16:15 <Serdar> we made many syncs lately
Aug 26 23:16:51 <Serdar> can you update everything in the installer branch?
Aug 26 23:18:01 <Serdar> we also need a new layout for froyo iirc
Aug 26 23:18:45 <jancona> It's possible to merge Qi patches from OM
Aug 26 23:19:08 <jancona> What new layout are you talking about?
Aug 26 23:19:35 <Serdar> the nand layout
Aug 26 23:20:00 <Serdar> it's system, kernel and userdata for cupcake and eclair iirc but there must be one more for froyo
Aug 26 23:20:29 <jancona> Where did you see that?
Aug 26 23:21:40 <Serdar> I didn't
Aug 26 23:21:49 <Serdar> one google guy on LinuxTag told me that
Aug 26 23:24:05 <jancona> First I've heard of it.
Aug 26 23:25:05 <jancona> I've got to to head home now. TTYL
Aug 27 00:04:52 <Serdar> did anybody tried to compile sandbox?
Aug 27 00:06:53 <Serdar> sorry busybox
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 27 02:59:57 2010